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GateWorld
November 19th, 2006, 08:44 PM
<DIV ALIGN="center"><TABLE WIDTH="450" BORDER="0" CELLSPACING="0" CELLPADDING="7"><TR><TD STYLE="border:0;"><DIV ALIGN="left"><FONT FACE="Verdana, Arial, san-serif" SIZE="2" COLOR="#000000"><A HREF="http://www.gateworld.net/atlantis/s3/311.shtml"><IMG SRC="http://www.gateworld.net/atlantis/graphics/311.jpg" WIDTH="160" HEIGHT="120" ALIGN="right" HSPACE="10" VSPACE="2" BORDER="0" STYLE="border: 1px black solid" ALT="Visit the Episode Guide"></A><FONT SIZE="1" COLOR="#888888">ATLANTIS SEASON THREE</FONT>
<FONT SIZE="4"><A HREF="http://www.gateworld.net/atlantis/s3/311.shtml" STYLE="text-decoration: none">THE RETURN, PART 2</A></FONT>
<FONT SIZE="1">EPISODE NUMBER - 311</FONT>
<IMG SRC="/images/clear.gif" WIDTH="1" HEIGHT="10" ALT="">
The Atlantis team goes against orders to try and save Atlantis from Replicator control -- and to rescue General O'Neill and Richard Woolsey, who are trapped in the occupied city.

<FONT SIZE="1" COLOR="#888888"><B><A HREF="http://www.gateworld.net/atlantis/s3/311.shtml">VISIT THE EPISODE GUIDE ></A></B>
SPOILERS! PHOTOS! AND MORE!</FONT></FONT></DIV></TD></TR></TABLE></DIV>

FallenAngelII
November 21st, 2006, 05:18 AM
What I know so far (strictly hearsay from the "Countdown"-thread):
* All the Ancients are apparentely dead (or gone, the post said "They're gone")
* The Asurans planned to activate Atlantis' Stardrive, which means they probably brought 3 ZPMs with them (or two, because the Ancients had 1 as well)
* Carson sat in the chair and destroyed the Stardrive somehow (droning Atlantis itself using Atlantis?!)
* They blew up the control room!
* Disrupter weapons apparentely work on the Asurans! They shot some guy using it and he died.
* Plan A was for Rodney to put a virus inside of an Asuran and have him upload it to the rest of them through their link. However, he when Rodney brought him back online, he attacked, prompting Rodney to shoot him with the disrupter. He died (this could be Niam).
* Rodney and the others hacked the shield and turned it into a giant disrupter weapon and then they tricked the Asurans into raising the shield, which killed them all.
* The episode is Jack-heavy (so all the O'Neill fans out there, go "Yay"!)
* John does not get demoted or courtmarshalled or fired or anything. The threat is brought up several times throughout the episode, though (so we know that Earth's contacting them somehow).
* The Asurans repair the control room (that or they repaired the damage done when they first attacked the city... probably both).

beanyman86
November 21st, 2006, 05:22 AM
yeah that's pretty much what i got from the countdown thread

Ltcolshepjumper
November 21st, 2006, 05:26 AM
Yeah, I read that. The person disrupted was... I think someone said Niam? But the shield is now a disruptor too. sweet.That sucks though. So what they are saying is that all they had to do to the Asurans' cityship was make the shield into a disruptor?

Elitenova
November 21st, 2006, 05:26 AM
but I want the whole storyline not spoiler.

FallenAngelII
November 21st, 2006, 05:27 AM
Just added more stuff. I think that's all. I hope some Canadians wake up soon to spoil us all to Kingdom McShep.

blahdkm
November 21st, 2006, 05:56 AM
Ok, First off yay for a new episode.

Secondly. The Replicator were planning to move the city. Which from our previous knowledge requires 3(??) ZPM's. As far as we know they weren't touched when The Weapon washed over the replicators. So, this leaves Atlantis, with assumably(unless they screw us over :( ), three ZPM's.

What do you think they'll do with them?

silence
November 21st, 2006, 05:59 AM
shield as disruptor? OMG... i can't wait to see that. i soooo didn't expect something like that.

beanyman86
November 21st, 2006, 06:08 AM
i'd guess that

when mckay uses the uses the shields activating to triggar the weapon i requires so much enery the i depletes a zpm or 2

but it's just a guess

hamstrad
November 21st, 2006, 06:13 AM
how did u see the episode????????

beanyman86
November 21st, 2006, 06:14 AM
no i didn't see it, couldn't stop myself from reading the spoilers

hamstrad
November 21st, 2006, 06:16 AM
ah i see thats a shame i cant wait to see it

beanyman86
November 21st, 2006, 06:16 AM
me either

silence
November 21st, 2006, 06:34 AM
ah i see thats a shame i cant wait to see it

welcome to the club... :D

Ltcolshepjumper
November 21st, 2006, 06:34 AM
I've got a question. Since the Asuran Stargate was destroyed with their cityship, do they have a Stargate anymore? IF they do then Mckay could try to make the disruptor shield go through the stargate to their homeworld and bye-bye replicators.

Vash
November 21st, 2006, 06:42 AM
Wonder why the Ancients never thought of disruptor to destroy the "replicators" rather then fire drones...

beanyman86
November 21st, 2006, 06:48 AM
mabye wasn't devloped when they tryed desroying them the first time and by the time the had built one the civilisation was already indicline

silence
November 21st, 2006, 06:50 AM
Wonder why the Ancients never thought of disruptor to destroy the "replicators" rather then fire drones...

hmmm....

maybe they just like fireworks or they developed disruptors later.... anyway, Asurans couldn't harm them, so they could basically do to them whatever they liked and didn't have to think much about possibilty that Asurans might fight back... so i'll go with my "fireworks" theory (and the fact that if they used them, then we wouldn't have Asurans at all... so there would be no plot... ;) )

techjunkie
November 21st, 2006, 09:46 AM
Tech Junkie here with my review of 'The Return, Part II'

I watched the episode last night in high definition on Movie Central HD. It was on at 11:00pm on the west coast, so I had to suffer through one hour of 'Masters of Horror' before getting the nights festivities.

SPOILER TIME

I was happy to see the episode, and yes Jack plays a major role. The nifty 'roll back the clock effect to explain how were solving this' was marginally interesting, albeit cheap. The final solution was if anything, a Star Trek solution, but a change of pace to the old 'upload another virus' routine.

Good points:

Arriving in Atlantis Stargate Control - then blowing it up.
The City is WAAAAAAY damaged. Buildings have fallen over.
The puddle jumper flying through the city.
The puddle jumper flying through the city, chased by drones.
The city losing it's star drive. Dammit Carson!
The cheap and easy way to fix the Stargate Control, via replicator work force.
Jack, and the dead-man switch. Underwater no less. Yeah, like we believed even for a second he was in trouble.
Time travel resolution. Yeah, so it wasn't time travel, but hey - looked cool. Kinda Tarantino-ish.
Nuke midway station. Nuke Atlantis. Good plan.


Bad stuff: OMG - we're in season 2 star trek territory.

They only discovered an underwater puddle jumper bay... today. Had no clue it was there during the last 2 years. Riiii-iiight.
Neam-sicles. MMmmmmmm... Actor had 1 line. Wow.
The solution. Not telegraphed, and Rodney saying... "...It worked???!!"
Can we stay here Uncle Jack?? Huh? Can we?

Ok - been a fan, still a fan. But we're getting close to 'man in suit' type of stuff. One rubber alien, and I am outahere!

Tech Junkie.

FallenAngelII
November 21st, 2006, 10:20 AM
The running commentary starts now! Check in for constant updates!

shockwave
November 21st, 2006, 10:27 AM
cool episode
it was great having jack back, and him not being asleep, loved his banter with woolsey. Jack can hold his breath too long though

and mckays crystal trick with Woolsey was clever, he fell for it

Looking back at part 1, this whole ancients stuff now seems nothing but a poor plot device to get the atlantis team out of there. They could have used a better storyline for ancients returning.

never the less a very entertaining episode. Better then the hive from last year

Oka
November 21st, 2006, 10:28 AM
It was a good episode.

Good:
- Flying through the gate backwards then thru the wall in the control room then proceeding to blow it up!!
- Shepherd flying thru the cities evading the drones, although he did get away from them a bit too easy.
- O'Neill and Woolsey had good chemistry and were fun to watch
- The twist in the end although it was pretty obvious =P
- Beckett's reaction to O'Neill putting him down was hilarious...
- That the original SG:A team is back under control of Atlantis
- They now have a fully functioning city, all ZPM's working? Although they did blow up the star drive.

Bad:
- The whole underwater pod hangar was kind of odd, it had always been there? I mean there were puddle jumpers own there and stuff..
- Dead mans switch beat, O'Neill swimming down there, seemed kind of unnecessary, was never really any suspense.
- Where were the Ancients? Didn't even mention them seem kind of odd...
- Replicators were acting kind of dumb and were fooled too easily.
- Blowing up midway station are you crazy?

As I said it was an entertaining episode and I am interested to see how they're going to move forward with the story. I am assuming they now have a full functioning city with full shields and everything. Thank you replicators =)

aAnubiSs
November 21st, 2006, 10:30 AM
Now we know drones do NOT pass through Lantean shields.

Nearfantastica
November 21st, 2006, 10:32 AM
Eeeep! I wouldn't lie about watching it! It has aired, but other than the spoiler posts I made in the countdown thread, I have no "proof" that I saw it: ie, I'm not posting caps, I don't have a file for download and no, I'm not going to rip my recording for distribution.

Movie Central is a special subscription channel, and it's not cheap to subscribe. It is entirely possible that on this website, on this message board, that only 4 people from Western Canada have a Movie Central subscription, watched the episode, AND decided to post *on this website* about it.

Seriously, when we look at the statistics, how many people on this board are even from Western Canada?

All that aside, I enjoyed the episode. I was particularily pleased:
When they put Sheppard and McKay together when they split the group up into pairs. I love watching those two interact, and I'm pleased that the writer's aren't shying away from them. The "rewind" sequence that went back to show up McKay's masterful plan was also a nice touch, even if it may be a bit cliche. I'm not the best at giving spoilers away (exact details). Maybe when I get some time I'll be able to watch it again, but I suspect that at that point, more people with better memories for detail will have seen the episode and posted about it

FallenAngelII
November 21st, 2006, 10:34 AM
Transcript of episode - Mod Note - not normally something we encourage here in the Episode threads but since this is already here it is going behind spoiler tags for those that want to read only *hints* and have not yet seen everything


"Previously on Stargate Atlantis" (Rodney)
* Niam showing Elizabeth & Co Asuras' sistership moving towards Atlantis
* Niam attacking Elizabeth
* What's-her-name-Ancient retaking the city
* Woolsey saying they need to know how much time we need to vacate the city
* Woolsey's and Jack's mayday
* John wanting to go there
* Request denied
* Rodney conspiring with Elizabeth
* Elizabeth fooling Dr. Lee
* The Team going through the gate
* Random shot of Teyla
* John saying: "I'll be damned if I let a bunch of replicators take our homeworld from us!"

*Shot of Atlantis - Night*
- Woolsey sitting alone in the dark, cowering
- He hears a sound, is startled
- Investigates, whispers "General?" *pause* "General?!"
Jack: "And..." *Woolsey startled, doubles back* "...if I'm a Replicator?"
Woolsey: Then I've just exposed my position... again. I'm sorry, I'm not very good at this.
Jack: Here (hands over power bar)
Woolsey: Thank God, I'm starving.
They move through the corridor. Jack's got one of those guns with a light on it. I think it's a disruptor.
Woolsey: Was this all you could find?
Jack: No, actually, there was a lovely buffet.
Woolsey: How did the recon go?
Jack: Well, the Stargate Ops is... crawling with them. There's no way we are gonna get across to the jumper bay.
Woolsey: Are they looking for us?
J: I plum (<--- whatever), forgot to ask.
W: Well, as long as the life signs detectors aren't working in these damaged areas, we should be able to hold out until they rescue us.
J: Ah, Richard, there's not going to be a rescue.
W: What?
J: Landry has standing orders to nuke the city if there's any sign of a foothold situation?
W: What kind of a standing order is that?!
J: Mine.
*Gate in the Atlantis Gate Room activates*
Male Asuran: What's happening? Activate the shield!
Black Male Asuran: I can't.
*Outside, Mainland, Jumper hovering in front of Gate*
Rodney: That's confirmation! The gate shield is lowered.
John: If this little plan of ours works (let's confess our love for each other).
Rodney: You and me a both.
*Jumper goes through*
*Wormhole sequence (long one)*
*Jumper enters the gate room*
*Asurans shoot at it. It's SHIELDED*
John: Authentication code Alpha Six Delta Charlie Niner. General O'Neill, Woolsey, do you copy?
Jack: (gets his radio up) Sheppard, is that you?
John: Yes sir. I need to know if you're anywhere near Stargate Operations (since when is it called that, anyway?!)
Jack: No, we're not.
John: Can't talk right now, sir. Get back to you in a couple of hours. Sheppard out. *NODS TO RODNEY* Drop the package.
Rodney: Package is away.
John: Hold on!
*Jumper moves through the deactivated gate, INTO THE WALL BEHIND IT (SMASHING IT)*
*Everyone recoils from the impact*
*Jumper moves further away from the Gate Room*
That First Male Asuran: Follow me (to the black guy).
*White Asuran and two other Asurans approach the beeping "package" (are they stupid?!)*
*They just stand around looking at it*
*Package beeps faster and faster*
*Shot of the tower in which the gate room is*
*IT EXPLODES as the Jumper flies away from it*
*Omnious music*
*Reaction shot of our guys*
John: That went well.
*Weapon wings unfold from the Jumper. It flies into space (WTF?!)*

END OF TEASER. OPENING SEQUENCE PLAYS

Ronja
November 21st, 2006, 10:53 AM
Love the Jack/Woolsey interaction! And the twist in the end was great. Poor Woolsey! :P But hey like Jack said... at least he's good for something! ;)

I was LMAO when Jack said "Dr Beckett is it? Well I'm comforted" That was so a refference to Kershaws comment in The Sentinal about Daniel! LOL :D

Over all great ep! Mckay was hilarious as always! Good to have at least Atlantis back! Man I wanna see SG-1 now.... :mckay:

gopher65
November 21st, 2006, 11:00 AM
Movie Central is a special subscription channel, and it's not cheap to subscribe. It is entirely possible that on this website, on this message board, that only 4 people from Western Canada have a Movie Central subscription, watched the episode, AND decided to post *on this website* about it.

Seriously, when we look at the statistics, how many people on this board are even from Western Canada?


Hey! I'm from western canada;). I've looked at getting that channel, but it is just way to expensive for what I'd watch on it. I don't know what it is like where you are, but here Shaw only offers that channel as part of a very expensive package. I just can't afford it to watch one little show:(.

FallenAngelII
November 21st, 2006, 11:03 AM
Transcript of episode - Mod Note - not normally something we encourage here in the Episode threads but since this is already here it is going behind spoiler tags for those that want to read only *hints* and have not yet seen everything


Woolsey: That sounded like an explosion.
Jack: Because it was.
W: Is Sheppard attacking the city?
J: It better be.
W: Why can't he get back to us for two hours?
J: I don't know.
*Shot of Cheyenne Mountain Complex, zoomed in on the letters. Night. Grasshoppers sound*
Walter: It's coming up on 23:00 hours, Sir.
Landry: *pacing* I can see that, Chief (CHIEF?!).
W: *sighs* Yes, sir.
L: I have to assume Sheppard heard my message and chose to ignore it.
W: There's no way to be 100% certain, Sir.
L: He heard me, alright. They're already in Pegasus doing goodness knows what. Which leaves me no choice but to lock out their IDCs and invalidate their personal authentication codes.
W: But, Sir. If they're successful in rescuing...
L: We have no way of knowing if they've been successful or if they've been compromised. I have my standing orders and I'm damn well gonna follow them.
*Walter looking pained*
L: And when you're done locking up those IDCs, have Doctor Lee report to my office.
W: Yes, Sir. *types*
*Jumper above Lantia. Flies across the screen. Looks cool.*
Rodney: It was good to be back, however briefly.
Carson: I feel like I'm gonna be ill.
*Teyla looks slightly panicked/surprised/hungry*
*Ronon looks genuinely constipated*
Ronon: Don't be.
Elizabeth: Aye (AYE?!), just take some deep breaths, Carson.
*Carson takes a slightly deep breath*
Teyla: Should we not have informed General O'Neill of our plan?
John: He knows we're here. We'll contact him again as soon as we get closer to the city.
Rodney: Well that is gonna be easier said than done. With all those hits we took, it's gonna be impossible for me to convert the shield back into a cloak.
John: By impossible, you mean...
Rodney: I mean "Not possible". What do you think I mean?
John: You know... hopefully we took out the sensors when we blew the tower.
Elizabeth: You said they could rebuild remarkably fast (wild eyes. Possibly constipated... or hungry... or both). How long before they restore critical systems?
Rodney: *raises hand and does a "Dunno" motion* Does it... a couple of hours?
John: There's repainting and redecorating (he's so gay!).
*Shot of Carson. Eyes shooting from looking at possibly Rodney, possibly space to John*
Rodney: If we time this right, this could work to our advantage.
*BEEPING*
*Screen appears in front of the pilot's seat*
*Shot of Lantia in 3D (with those nifty lines going around it)*
John: (looking exceptionally young) Got 'em!
*Rodney lifts his hand again, points at the screen, then lowers it (hand porn!)*
John: Right where we left him.
*Rodney types, beeping*
Rodney: That's him!
Ronon: (looking angry, constipated, hungry and possibly horny all at once) Who else would it be?
Rodney: True. Power levels are barely registering. It's no wonder the Replicators didn't find him.
John: Alright, I'm swinging around picking him up. *looks back briefly* Watch yourselves, I'm closing the bulk head (which is, oh, 3 feet behind everyone. Watch themselves from what? The back draft?!).
*Bulk head closing* *Teyla and Ronon looking at it closing*
*Shot of Jumper flying across space towards a lone white figure*
*Back to the ship, the bulk doors are still closing although it's been, like, 30 seconds since they were almost completely closed!*
Teyla: Will we not be vulnerable to the same nanovirus with which Niam infected Elizabeth?
Carson: He's been floating in space for about a month now (hah! Two and half to us real life people!). He's *SOMETHING* such a harsh environment, direct solar radiation has severely diminished his power levels. We're fairly certain he's almost completely incapacitated.
Ronon: Is he dead? *looks tired*
Rodney: Mostly dead. Besides, we don't have a choice. *sighs* He's the key to our whole plan (O RLY?).
Elizabeth: Alright, but if he evens twitches...
*Ronon flicking his disruptor on and off*
Ronon: Don't worry.
Elizabeth: Thank you.
*More beeping*
John: Got him! Closing the rear hatch. *gets up and walks towards the bulk head doors* Take the seat.
*Carson takes the seat*
Carson: The compartment's being pressurized (what are we, idiots? Must we have everything explained to us?)
*Rodney types, beeping*
*Bulk head doors open*
*John and Rodney pointing their disruptor guns at an unconscious Niam on the floor*
*Niam's pale (WTF). There's frost all over his body*
*John nods at Rodney (they're soooo doing it!)*
*Rodney looks exasperated "Why me?" "Do I have to do this?" "Are you trying to out us to everybody?!"*
Rodney: Yeah, ok, ok (muttering).
*Johns walks into the rear compartment, followed by Rodney*
*Rodney scans Niam with some Ancienty device*
*Beeping*
Rodney: OK. *beep* Ok, this is good. *beep* His power levels are minimal, but not too minimal (more hand porn). I'm fairly sure he hasn't got the juice to regain consciousness.
*Niam's fingers twitch*
*Rodney startles*
Rodney: Whoa, whoa, whoa.
*Ronon's weapon clicks as he moves forward*
*Fingers stop twitching. Niam's breathing*
Rodney: Was... fairly sure (looks slightly panicked... or constipated).
John: Just... load the program.
*Someone sniffs*
*More beeping*
*Shot of smoking tower*
Black Male Asuran: Repairs are underway in Stargate Operations (now the Asurans are calling it that?!?!?!?!), but we have lost all main sensors. *He and that White Dude are walking through a Lantean corridor. White dude stops at a terminal. Black dude stops with him* We are trying to route all the telemitry through these terminals, but they were not designed to take on so many systems.
White dude: We have stationed several observers on the city. If the gateship (gateship! XD XD XD), we'll detect them visually.
*Black Dude studies some Ancient terminal, a map*
Black Dude: They communicated briefly with someone within the city. We'll send search parties here (points) and (points) here.
White dude: All of the Ancients were killed (HAH! They WERE Ancients! My side wins!). Their commander tried to conceal that fact as I probed her mind.
Black Dude: There may have also been a small number (more like two) of humans (now he's looking constipated-ish).
White Dude: *Semi-rolls his eyes. Shakes head* We would've detected them.
Black Dude: They may be hiding where the sensors are inoperable. If we want to capture the ones who attacked us, we must first capture those they came for. *turn to look at White Dude*
*WD looks at him, then turns back to the map as BD does the same*
*Omnious music!* (Dun Dun Dun!!!!)

FallenAngelII
November 21st, 2006, 11:11 AM
Transcript of episode - Mod Note - not normally something we encourage here in the Episode threads but since this is already here it is going behind spoiler tags for those that want to read only *hints* and have not yet seen everything


*Shot: Frozen Niam. The bottom of his face (past the ridge of his nose) is not covered in frost for whatever reason*
*Rodney's Ancienty device beeps again*
John: (sounding exceptionally young) Well? Done yet?
Rodney: I think we're good to go (lifts face from device, looks at John. They're so doing it).
John: Alright. I'll take us back. *gets to his feet. Ronon does the same*
*Johns walks out towards the front*
Elizabeth: Why don't we do this from here?
Rodney: Do what from here?
Elizabeth: Render the Replicators helpless, Rodney? Remember the plan?
*Ronon's FIDGETTING*
Rodney: Of course I remember the plan! It's my plan!
*Elizabeth sighs inwardly. Possibly tired, possible aneurism*
John: (from the control chair) Uhr (yes, he says "Uhr"), actually, using Niam was Elizabeth's plan (he's not getting any tonight).
Elizabeth: (sounding like a 15 yearold) Thank you!
Rodney: Was mostly my plan. (mutters) My freezing program.
Carson: You said they'd be frozen in place six to seven hours. Why not do it right now?
Rodney: Because I've got to keep Niam at nominal power levels, otherwise we risk him waking up (more hand porn). Look, low power means short range. Short range means we need to get closer (hand porn!!!)!
Teyla: (sounding... semi-angry?!) How much closer?
Rodney: (annoyed) Much!
Ronon: With no cloak?
Rodney: (now looking exasperated) No cloak!
John: Good to be back home, huh?
Elizabeth: Hm (though it sounds like a "Hmpf", though slightly cheerful. What's with these people?!) No place like it!
*Lantia from above. Jumper flying downwards, towards the surface. Swirly clouds! Pretty!*
*OMNIOUS MUSIC!*

Starxgate
November 21st, 2006, 11:25 AM
Great episode it was good seeing classic Jack back :cool:

sindicate
November 21st, 2006, 11:25 AM
pretty good episode

watched it last night

gave Jack a workout in this one

FallenAngelII
November 21st, 2006, 11:30 AM
Transcript of episode - Mod Note - not normally something we encourage here in the Episode threads but since this is already here it is going behind spoiler tags for those that want to read only *hints* and have not yet seen everything


*Cheyenne Mountain Complex. Shot from outside (slightly far away). Car drives towards the entrance*
Dr. Lee: I realize I was duped, General, but (shakes head once) they were incredible. It was like a scene out of "The Sting", I...
Landry: Calm down, Bill. That's not why I brought you in here.
Lee: In my defense, this was obviously something they had planned for a long time...
Landry: Forget about it! I'd like to know your opinion on the best way to disable the Gate Bridge between galaxies (we're doomed!).
Lee: (looks perplexed) We just finished building that.
Landry: (closes eyes, purses lips, nods slightly) I'm aware of that.
Lee: *sighs* OK (<--- drawl). Uh, well, um. I su, I suppose if one were to detonate a Mark IX at the midway station, that'd pretty much do it.
Landry: I thought so. I'd like to supervise the preparations of a Mark IX to keep our options open (we're so screwed!).
Lee: (leans back in chair) Aaah (sigh). You could always dismantle it. Of course, it would take a bit more time.
Landry: (gets up) Which we may not have!
Lee: Wow. If that, that is such a shame!
*Sad music plays. Sad... or emotional. Or constipated. Or a banana. Mmm... Daniel and a banana...*
Landry: Doctor? (wide eyes, crazy!) Why are you still in my office (looks bloated, too!)?
Lee: Uh, (gets up) right! (walks out)
*Landry sighs silently*
*Gateship, I mean Jumper flying through the atmosphere*
*Cue "Suspenseful music"*
John: Alright. We're about a mile out.
Rodney: OK. I'll start broadcasting the virus now. But, uh, we're going to need to get closer than that.
*Elizabeth looks at Rodney (briefly)*
*Shot of random male Asuran looking out a balcony*
*He notices something*
*FIVE DRONES launch from that hole in Atlantis!*
*Omnious/Suspenseful music*
*Drones fly off into the distance, towards the oncoming jumper*
Teyla: Drones!
John: McKay!
Rodney: We're still not close enough!
John: Hang on!
*Reaction shot of Lizzie... who glances at... Teyla (?) briefly. Mouth opens slightly as if to say something. She doesn't, though. WTF*
*Two drones shoot towards the jumper as it maneuvres away*
*Two more join them*
*Fifth one comes around as well*
*Jumpers zig-zags through the towers, drones right behind them*
*Fancy trick flying*
*Drone hits a part of the city as they pass by it (small blast, almost no damage)*
*Shot of the city as the jumper maneuvres, as if you're looking through the jumper window*
*Another drone hits the city (no damage)*
*Reaction shot of Woolsey and Jack*
Woolsey: That sounded like another explosion!
Jack: (after a pause) Yes. Yes, it did. (sounding patronizing)
Woolsey: What does that mean?
J: Something exploded.
W: But is it Sheppard attacking the Replicators or the Replicators attacking Sheppard?
J: We'll find out!
*Woolsey sighing inwardly, shakes head, probably PMS:ing*
W: How did they even get here? Through the gate?
J: I've been sitting next to you through the whole thing. Why do you think I have more information?
*Woolsey looosens tie and opens his shirt (my eyes!!!!)*
W: Look (takes off tie, crumples it in his hand (WTF?!)), I told you I wasn't good at this (throws it aside).
J: He said he'd be back in a couple of hours (looks at watch). That gives him a good (shows W his watch)... 11 seconds.
*EXPLOSION! SHAKING!*
W: What was that?
Elizabeth: Hey, if we keep this up, there won't be much of a city left to save.
John: We'll try to run the drones into your least favourite buildings. McKay!
Rodney: It should be working!
Carson: Well, it's not working!
Rodney: Look (shot of Niam), if I give him any more power, he'll wake up and kill us all!
Ronon: (mad) Sheppard can't (sounds like he's actually saying "gay") keep this up forever!
*Jumper flying through city. Three drones on its tail*
*Drone hits shield (HAH! THERE ARE SHIELDS THAT CAN WITHSTAND DRONES!)
Teyla: Shields have been damaged.
John: Alright, I've had enough. I've got a different idea.
*Shot of jumper maneuvring*
*Closes wings*
*GOES INTO THE WATER*
*Dramatic music*

FallenAngelII
November 21st, 2006, 11:39 AM
Transcript of episode - Mod Note - not normally something we encourage here in the Episode threads but since this is already here it is going behind spoiler tags for those that want to read only *hints* and have not yet seen everything


Woolsey: They're over due.
Jack: Not yet.
W: It's been well over 11 seconds.
J: Yes, but you've been ignoring the dramatic element of... (Woolsey looking... weird) suspense!
John: (radio) General O'Neill, you there, Sir?
*Woolsey takes a seat next to a sitting Jack*
J: See!
W: Oh, thank God!
J: Yes, we're here (looks at W). You're late!
John: Sorry, Sir.
*Back to inside Jumper*
John: Had to go into space and pick up some... frozen goods.
*Jack and Woolsey looking at each other*
J: Whatever. Where are you now?
*Back to Jumper*
John: We're not exactly inside the city yet. We're heading toward an underwater jumper bay.
Elizabeth: Well, what we think may be an underwater jumper bay.
*Back to Jack*
J: Is that Doctor Weir I hear?
Liz: Yes, general.
*Back to jumper*
Liz: It's good to hear your voice, too.
Jack: I didn't say it was good, Elizabeth. Please, don't be offended as I express my... surprise that Landry would send you on a mission like this.
*John looking petulant (shakes head)*
Liz: Well, Sir, General Landry didn't sanction this mission.
*Back to Jack*
J: So, am I to assume you're not surrounded by heavily armed SG teams and young, strapping marines (he's so gay. Go for it, Daniel!)?
*Back to jumper*
Liz: You've got Colonel Sheppard, Ronon, Teyla, McKay, Myself and Dr. Beckett.
*Back to J*
Jack: Ouh! Dr. Beckett, is it? Well, I'm comforted.
*Back to J*
*Carson looks irked*
Carson: (whispers) What's that supposed to mean?
*Lizzie gives him a comforting look*
*Rodney's laptop beeps*
Rodney: Ok. Ready to open the lock.
John: We've got a plan, Sir. A... good one!
J: Yes, Colonel. I'm sure you do.
*back to J*
J: But in the unlikely event you don't fail miserably, you're fired!
*Back to jumper*
John: (looks surprised/irked/constipated/horny) Yes, Sir! Looking forward to that.
*Back to J. Clicks off radio*
*Omnious music*

BrokenHearted
November 21st, 2006, 12:01 PM
For the person who complained that nothing was said about the ancients, yes, something was said, near the beginning.

They were all killed.

Red Phoniex
November 21st, 2006, 12:04 PM
It was an okay ep. Had some great snark in it and had me laughing at alot of it. Glad they used Jack alot and the underwater scene was brilliantly done.

Some of the effects....My God, they were beautiful. A very well done to the special effects department. They really out did themselves on this one.

caty
November 21st, 2006, 12:05 PM
I absolutely love this episode! I think it was very well written, lots of good team dynamic and very, very unpredictable (the whole plan).. Never would have figured how they were gonna get out of that one...

Loved the banter Shep/McKay and Woosey/O'Neil...

The whole thing just worked! Very good!

Red Phoniex
November 21st, 2006, 12:12 PM
I absolutely love this episode! I think it was very well written, lots of good team dynamic and very, very unpredictable (the whole plan).. Never would have figured how they were gonna get out of that one...



Agree with you. I never saw it coming and the rewind was very good. I never thought about the time gap between clips but i did wonder how Carson and Weir knew how to put in C4.

silence
November 21st, 2006, 12:19 PM
i been waiting whole day to see it and it was well worth it.... i really loved this ep, i don't have anything bad to say...
killing off Ancients was expected, but there is no mention of Tria (i am still hoping we will finally get Aurora class ship). Asurans used their own ship for raw materials and we know that Ancients sent PJ in Part I, so Tria should be somewhere ....

Jack was amazing, i enjoyed his scenes, it felt like old eps of Sg-1 sometimes.
And Woolsey .. damn, i never liked his char, but he was really good in this ep.
Shep and McKay...


blah... gonna watch it again to catch everything....

Atlantean_Fan
November 21st, 2006, 12:21 PM
What of the Asuran ship that attacked? Vanished into another dimension like the Tria?

The Ancient stuff, pretty lame if you ask me. They just got killed? Contradicts everything SG-1 has said so far about advanced humans and Ancients in the form of Adria, yes she grew up very unnaturaly fast, but other than that she's an Ancient/Ori (same thing) just like those guys and I think the number of Ancients in Atlantis was enough to desintegrate the Asurans telekineticly for what we've seen through Adria. Even Cassandra had telekinesis, for crying out loud!!!!! To believe they just died is to believe I'm stupid. Perhaps I'm....It doesn't make sense though, unless they weren't Ancients, but humans who lived in Atlantis and were chosen to crew the Tria, than only a handfull of the returnees would be real Ancients, that's the only thing that explains it to me, if anything will or Asuran ploy. Did they know if there was people listening to them? If not, it was really lame....

female Wraith
November 21st, 2006, 12:22 PM
A good episode but I am little surprised.
I thought we will see more details about the Ancients and what was that underwater pod bay?? They didn't mentioned it till now. It was very strange and illogical!!!!!!!!!!!
And these Replicators....I thought they are more inteligent. They probed TWICE the minds of O'Neel and Woolsey but they didn't probe the minds of the SGA team????????????

theonebluegecko
November 21st, 2006, 12:38 PM
I think that the replicators saw no benefit from probing the minds of SGA as they know the plan, or at least it really seemed like they did.

The plan the replicators thought they knew made sense and there was evidence for it, there was no reason to object to it.

It was a great episode, but that might partly be because I am just so happy to not have to wait until March to see it.

I loved the O'Neil Woolsey interaction, I thought that they were great. And I loved O'Neil's comment on Beckett being there. It tied in with the comment before where Landry commented on the fact that he had no called him in.

Beckett was kind of out of place with the team, but it was great seeing him there.

silence
November 21st, 2006, 12:52 PM
What of the Asuran ship that attacked? Vanished into another dimension like the Tria?


they used it for raw materials needed to repair damage.
as for PJ bay... it is known that SG teams didnt even step in half the city, so i guess there are many more things we didnt see.. after all, people were whining that they should show other parts of the city ;)

Melak
November 21st, 2006, 01:05 PM
they used it for raw materials needed to repair damage.
as for PJ bay... it is known that SG teams didnt even step in half the city, so i guess there are many more things we didnt see.. after all, people were whining that they should show other parts of the city ;)


First off - GREAT episode - I purposely stayed away from spoilers just to enhance the effect of the episode, and it worked

2. to expand on silence's point - it would make sense for them not to use it since they have a fully functional jumper bay above the control room that's got easier access to both the stargate and the roof hatch.

3. O'neil and Woolsey interaction was great - I agree with the other poster who said it felt like good old sg-1

4. totally did not see that ending coming at all, in fact at first when they did the rewind thing, I thought there was a problem with the signal.

5. Underwater jumper bay looked cool and if I'm not mistaken add 2 more jumpers to the equipment list for atlantis

6. I can't wait to see a Fully Powered Atlantis. Even saying/thinking it makes my skin crawl.

Xeon_1
November 21st, 2006, 01:06 PM
sound like a good episode but i personly think they should kill carson now
He blew up the bloody stardrive
now we finaly have a fully power atlantis but it still can't move :mad:
i mean come on they wouldn't have to make the city fly just the option of it flying would be good could be handy at some point to ferry a crippeld deadalus back to earth or to sebmerge the city

IWKYZerocool
November 21st, 2006, 01:10 PM
just watched the return part 2, and it was brilliant, like the part when shepperd was flying around the city and we finally have 3 working ZPM's.

Buba uognarf
November 21st, 2006, 01:12 PM
sound like a good episode but i personly think they should kill carson now
He blew up the bloody stardrive
now we finaly have a fully power atlantis but it still can't move :mad:
i mean come on they wouldn't have to make the city fly just the option of it flying would be good could be handy at some point to ferry a crippeld deadalus back to earth or to sebmerge the city

blasfamy *sp* burn the heretic!!! :sholva: :sholva: :sholva: ...

sorry thats a bit OTT, but seriously a mans got to do what a mans got to do...

theonebluegecko
November 21st, 2006, 01:12 PM
To whoever said that it was convenient or some such comment about the underwater jumper bay. It is quite possible that this is the first time they were ever able to explore it at all because this is the first time we have seen the city all powered up. Which does give us a whole new realm of possibilities.

xfkirsten
November 21st, 2006, 01:16 PM
I thought it was a great episode - although I did like Part 1 better.

I liked that they still went into the stuff about the underwater jumper bay. Personally, I think that the underwater aspect of the show is fantastic. They have a planet COVERED in water, and the marine biologist in me is chomping at the bit to see more of that - I think it makes Atlantis distinct from the settings of a lot of other scifi shows. But in this episode specifically, I didn't feel any sense of urgency in that leaky jumper scene. I felt more urgency on O'Neill's part, where he was trying to work as fast as he could so he could get back to the surface to breathe. But it never really felt like the team in the jumper was in danger. I think it was because we never saw any sort of rising water - just a dribble from the roof. So it never really felt like time was running out for them.

As for whether or not they ever would have noticed the underwater bay before, I got the impression that they knew it was there already (based on how Sheppard said they thought that's what it would be) but that exploring it had never really been a priority for them. Maybe it will be now!

The little "rewind" really caught me by surprise, and left me horribly confused for a few moments! :p I think it worked pretty well, though. It could have felt like a "deus ex machina" moment, but I think in this case it fit well enough with what we'd already been shown that it worked out okay. Although I still felt a bit gypped out of showdowns with the replicators in this one. ;)

And I loved the little hug that Weir gave O'Neill in the end. It was quite adorable! I think if she were one who was prone to squeeing, she would have been doing so. ;)

Melak
November 21st, 2006, 01:23 PM
sound like a good episode but i personly think they should kill carson now
He blew up the bloody stardrive
now we finaly have a fully power atlantis but it still can't move :mad:
i mean come on they wouldn't have to make the city fly just the option of it flying would be good could be handy at some point to ferry a crippeld deadalus back to earth or to sebmerge the city

you do realize that it was sheppard who ordered carson to do it, and they were doing it to make sure that Atlantis couldn't take off and either blow up the Daedalus or worse, take it back to the asuran homeworld

Buba uognarf
November 21st, 2006, 01:30 PM
it is 'Stargate Atlantis S03E11 The Return Part 2.avi', its a good version HDTV

thanks, prepare to recieve green:D

TheReturnOfTheLantian
November 21st, 2006, 01:36 PM
you do realize that it was sheppard who orderer carson to do it, and they were doing it to make sure that Atlantis couldn't take off and either blow up the Daedalus or worse, take it back to the asuran homeworld
yes but why would they wanna take it back to their homeworld when they try to destroy it the first time around did Niam send the new agression code over to the rest of the Repicators?

Astrofighter
November 21st, 2006, 01:36 PM
{Mod Snip}

about the ep, i was thinking about the "under water" jumper bay, remember it is also a space ship, so think it more so as having a jumper bay at both sides of the ship

what im wondering though are those jumpers some how different...are they more equipped for the water?

also i dont see any reason why the replicator annihilation would have drained the zpm's that just doesnt make any sense, its just a different wave length than the shield is normally pulsing out

silence
November 21st, 2006, 01:41 PM
i just watched it again.... meh... it rocks...
Teyla with two anti-replicator guns, Woolsey with P-90 and Berreta, Jack and his remarks...

Shep flying around the city with drones chasing him is one of best scenes in all Stargate shows i watched, they did really good CGI. Also, after first time i watched it, i thought there were some plot holes, but i couldnt find any after second run... i hope that rest of s3 is like this one.

And yay.. 3 ZPM's in Atlantis, that prolly means some cool tech in future eps, since everything is working now. And if they would let us have Aurora class warship... dream come true.


{Mod Snip}

Elitenova
November 21st, 2006, 01:42 PM
I'm not downloading it from youtube. Only 10 minutes to and I will do a transcript for y'all to read.

silence
November 21st, 2006, 01:44 PM
Only 10 minutes to and I will do a transcript for y'all to read.

oy... you'll get green for that, i am too lazy to catch all the jokes... and there are some really great ones.

"I close my eyes and think of England" :D

Melak
November 21st, 2006, 01:51 PM
you people need to realize that talking about dowmloading in any form is still a no-no on gateworld, so if you do wish to discuss the subject (and things pertaining to), do it off of gateworld.

and...


yes but why would they wanna take it back to their homeworld when they try to destroy it the first time around did Niam send the new agression code over to the rest of the Repicators?

it may be the fact that they wanted to get any of their kind they left on the planet due to the fact they had to dismantle their ship to repair Atlantis. Also, it's always a good idea if possible to secure any/all captured enemy technology/weapons/vehicles back to your base to keep it secure.

Malakriss
November 21st, 2006, 01:52 PM
The story, while plausible, did seem a little rushed since they had to fit it all in a 45 minute episode. I would have liked to see what happened between Part 1 and the start of Part 2, but I suppose we'll just have to take their word on it.

Strategically if you're building a large outpost or base, it is good to have more then one launch bay. We can assume that the ancients did it symmetrical, with one bay on top, one on the bottom, but since it's floating on the surface the bottom part would be submerged. Pumping out the bottom levels would be tedious, given that they haven't even explored the entire topside yet.

silence
November 21st, 2006, 01:53 PM
or they just wanted Atlantis as trophy... after all team blew up their version of city-ship, so what would be better then having original, after they killed last living Ancients?

that's how i see it.

TheReturnOfTheLantian
November 21st, 2006, 02:00 PM
well tbh talking about putting it on YouTube isnt against the rules as it's not a download site it where you watch it from. you cant download nothing whats been uploaded on there. and i dont wanna w8 till they air it in the UK

ToasterOnFire
November 21st, 2006, 02:06 PM
Meh, I thought it was okay. After the wonderful character moments of the first part this second part seemed more like a sterile action episode, so that was a bit disappointing. Plus there were a lot of scenes with only Woolsey, Jack, or the SGC, which would have been just fine if this had been an SG1 ep. :mckay:

The best parts were the flashback to show the team's true plan (always good to see the team acting smart instead of making dumb mistakes) and the final scene (Jack/Elizabeth shippers will be thrilled :D).

IMO, Storm/Eye still reigns supreme for best mid-season two-parter.

sgeureka
November 21st, 2006, 02:52 PM
Loved that episode. There were about five times that took me completely by surprise (I counted). I completely forgot over the hiatus what a good show Atlantis actually is.

It's also astonishing how loving another TV show (LOST) changes your viewing habits - I've seen the numbers 4 and 16. :)

I've also made a gallery with 160 low-res screenshots from the first half of this episode here: http://s52.photobucket.com/albums/g36/sgeureka/sga_311/. The remaining screenshots will be up in about an hour.

Edit:
All screencaps (325 total) are up now at the link above.

Starxgate
November 21st, 2006, 02:55 PM
It was a good episode.

Good:
- Flying through the gate backwards then thru the wall in the control room then proceeding to blow it up!!
- Shepherd flying thru the cities evading the drones, although he did get away from them a bit too easy.
- O'Neill and Woolsey had good chemistry and were fun to watch
- The twist in the end although it was pretty obvious =P
- Beckett's reaction to O'Neill putting him down was hilarious...
- That the original SG:A team is back under control of Atlantis
- They now have a fully functioning city, all ZPM's working? Although they did blow up the star drive.

Bad:
- The whole underwater pod hangar was kind of odd, it had always been there? I mean there were puddle jumpers own there and stuff..
- Dead mans switch beat, O'Neill swimming down there, seemed kind of unnecessary, was never really any suspense.
- Where were the Ancients? Didn't even mention them seem kind of odd...
- Replicators were acting kind of dumb and were fooled too easily.
- Blowing up midway station are you crazy?

As I said it was an entertaining episode and I am interested to see how they're going to move forward with the story. I am assuming they now have a full functioning city with full shields and everything. Thank you replicators =)

One of the replicators said all of the ancients were killed

mckaychick
November 21st, 2006, 02:59 PM
how have you guys seen it?,????????????????

watcher652
November 21st, 2006, 03:03 PM
John: We've got a plan, Sir. A... good one!
J: Yes, Colonel. I'm sure you do.
*back to J*
J: But in the unlikely event you don't fail miserably, you're fired!
*Back to jumper*
John: (looks surprised/irked/constipated/horny) Yes, Sir! Looking forward to that.
*Back to J. Clicks off radio*
*Omnious music*Thanks so much for the transcript. I'm ever so grateful. And your personal comments are very funny.

But... where's the rest? <whimper>

Ha! When they left Niam out in space in "Progeny", I just knew he was going to make a return visit. You just don't leave your trash out in space like that without a reason, especially replicator trash. Good heavens, the whole Asuran world was created out of just a few stray replicator bocks.

jenks
November 21st, 2006, 03:05 PM
how have you guys seen it?,????????????????

It aired in Canada.

mckaychick
November 21st, 2006, 03:07 PM
* packs bags and heads for canada to see return part 2*

prion
November 21st, 2006, 04:04 PM
I've also made a gallery with 160 low-res screenshots from the first half of this episode here: http://s52.photobucket.com/albums/g36/sgeureka/sga_311/. The remaining screenshots will be up in about an hour.

Edit:
All screencaps (325 total) are up now at the link above.

Neat. I skimmed 'em, still not totally spoiled yet so I'm safe ;)

gkyun
November 21st, 2006, 04:20 PM
Man what a fantastic episode! Gotta love the O'Neill/Woolsey dynamic.

Though I'm still a bit disappointed about Teyla being put on the sideline again and again. It would've been better if she were to contribute something to the mission planning, after all she's a leader as well.

Shame the Ancients were all killed, which got me thinking why O'Neill and Woolsey were the only two that escaped the replicater infiltration of Atlantis?

jenks
November 21st, 2006, 04:22 PM
Shame the Ancients were all killed, which got me thinking why O'Neill and Woolsey were the only two that escaped the replicater infiltration of Atlantis?

Maybe they weren't ;)

TameFarrar
November 21st, 2006, 04:28 PM
well tbh talking about putting it on YouTube isnt against the rules as it's not a download site it where you watch it from. you cant download nothing whats been uploaded on there. and i dont wanna w8 till they air it in the UK

Yes it is...Please discontinue any and ALL discussions of of episodes uploading AND downloading of any source except the pay ones. That would be Movie Central and iTunes only

There is a full warning and written instruction in the Forum Help and Announcments Folder for those of you that need a referesher on the rules here at GW :)

Thank you!
TameFarrar
GateWorld Moderator

Starxgate
November 21st, 2006, 04:36 PM
Man what a fantastic episode! Gotta love the O'Neill/Woolsey dynamic.

Though I'm still a bit disappointed about Teyla being put on the sideline again and again. It would've been better if she were to contribute something to the mission planning, after all she's a leader as well.

Shame the Ancients were all killed, which got me thinking why O'Neill and Woolsey were the only two that escaped the replicater infiltration of Atlantis?

Remember Jack has years of experience. Is it really that hard to believe that he was able to quietly lead him & Richard to safely ? Sure he may be a goof ball but he can be serious

Jonzey
November 21st, 2006, 04:52 PM
Well I thought the episode was pretty good. I enjoyed it, but that's not to say it didn't have some problems which I really didn't like.

1. A ship full of living, breathing ancients makes a return to Atlantis in part one... only to be completely wiped out and not even seen again in part 2.

2. The intergalactic bridge- what happened with that story? Did they destroy it? I'd assume they did, thought it brings me onto another point:

3. Important stuff happening off screen. A big staple of SG-1 season 8. We didn't see them do anything with the bridge, we didn't see them scoop up Niam, and quite a few of the big effects happened off-screen. (That's not to say it happened all the time. The flying through the city and blowing up the tower were great). That's really a minor point though.

4. The Big Reset Switch was working overtime:
The ancients are gone
The tower was completely rebuilt after being blown up
The team is back on Atlantis with no repercussions for their actions
Yes, they may have three ZPM's now, but no Stardrive. All they can do is power more parts of the city when the storyline calls for it
The replicators most likely wont bother us again until the next major episode about them.


Thing is, I've been watching so many fantastic serialised shows lately, and seeing Stargate keep resetting itself and rarely changing anything is quite disappointing. Half way through the episode I was thinking ''will they be without Stargate operations for a while? Will they find a living, breathing ancient to teach them about the city? Will they be able to fly the city around? Will anything have changed by the end of the episode?''. And the answer is no, no, no and no.

starfox
November 21st, 2006, 04:57 PM
What of the Asuran ship that attacked? Vanished into another dimension like the Tria?

The Ancient stuff, pretty lame if you ask me. They just got killed? Contradicts everything SG-1 has said so far about advanced humans and Ancients in the form of Adria, yes she grew up very unnaturaly fast, but other than that she's an Ancient/Ori (same thing) just like those guys and I think the number of Ancients in Atlantis was enough to desintegrate the Asurans telekineticly for what we've seen through Adria. Even Cassandra had telekinesis, for crying out loud!!!!! To believe they just died is to believe I'm stupid. Perhaps I'm....It doesn't make sense though, unless they weren't Ancients, but humans who lived in Atlantis and were chosen to crew the Tria, than only a handfull of the returnees would be real Ancients, that's the only thing that explains it to me, if anything will or Asuran ploy. Did they know if there was people listening to them? If not, it was really lame....


But these weren't ascended Ancients, they're just run of the mill Alterrans. And they had been in touch for quite awhile; it's possible that they left Atlantis before the rest evolved that far, or perhaps this crew was more like Sheppard in "Epiphany", simply not interested. It's like operating an iPod. You could grab practically anyone off the street now and they'd know exactly what it is and probably how to operate it. But if you take someone who's been in stasis or on a desert island for the past 10 years and show them an iPod, they're going to think 'wtf is that?'. The crew that took back the city in "The Return, Part I" is like the people on a desert island. How are they supposed to know what's going on.



~~~~~~~~~

Now, actually talking about the episode.

Rodney was amazing, as usual, and I love that he had the idea to use the C4 to misdirect the Asurans. It was a good tactical call, and the fact that he thought of misdirection (and pulled it off), shows that he's developing more of a soldier-ish side. It's a far cry from the "horrible liar" we saw in "The Storm".

I can buy that O'Neill and Woolsey were the only two who survived the initial attack, they were rather inconsequential to the Alterran leader and therefore she wouldn't be thinking of them when the Asurans probed her mind. I just want to know how the hell they managed to hide when everyone else got caught.

I loved the Jack deadman switch scene. You could read his entire internal monolouge right on his face. It's one of the things I love about both RDA as an actor and Jack as a character.

Teyla shooting the chair room guards was just hot. The shot, and then the crossed gun shot? It was badass. And while we've seen her do the warrior-princess thing before, I don't think she's ever pulled a move as blatantly badass as that.

Weir calling Caldwell 'Stephen.' She owns him. It was just like, "stfu and keep your nukes away from my city. B*tch."

They used Woolsey well in this episode. He was just the right level of useless without being annoying and pansified. He's not a soldier, he's not used to these situations, and he acted the way I would expect a lot of people to act.

I also really love that Carson sat at the chair when he had to, and destroyed the stardrive as was necessary. He hates the chair and isn't comfortable with blowing things up, but he did what he had to do. He did as he was ordered, which isn't always right, but in this case it was, and he knew it. It was a small character evolution moment, and I liked it a lot.

And that's all for now.

HyperCaz
November 21st, 2006, 05:06 PM
Very good until the final minutes where it became great! :D Loved seeing Jack around - I've missed him. Just loved it...loved all the team stuff going on and all the 35 caps I got to take of Beckett... ;)

Didn't expect the twist honestly. I'm glad that the characters weren't made to look stupid for once.

starfox
November 21st, 2006, 05:18 PM
Thing is, I've been watching so many fantastic serialised shows lately, and seeing Stargate keep resetting itself and rarely changing anything is quite disappointing. Half way through the episode I was thinking ''will they be without Stargate operations for a while? Will they find a living, breathing ancient to teach them about the city? Will they be able to fly the city around? Will anything have changed by the end of the episode?''. And the answer is no, no, no and no.


The reset button bothers me as well. Landry's anger with Sheppard (and I'm annoyed by the way they wrote Landry in this ep, he was doing what he thought necessary, he didn't have to come off as such a jerk), as well as O'Neill's threats (joking or not) to fire him would have offered the perfect opportunity to cut Atlantis off from Earth. The SGC gave the Atlantis team the shaft in the last episode, stationing them all far apart from one another, putting Dr. Lee on projects that should have gone to Rodney or Radek, etc. They could have done something to show the strain this is going to put on Atlantis-Earth relations, but I feel like it's all going to be swept under the rug.

Astrofighter
November 21st, 2006, 05:21 PM
I think the head alteran was lying and there are a few alterans left, possilbly they took the ship and ran. Remember in part 1 they were sending up a puddle jumper to face off with the asurans. Also I would think getting some recon would be a top priority for the alterans now.

Also the inter-galaxy bridge is still operation. O'neill says "oh a jumper ride home to the sgc...". Meaning of course getting in a puddle jumper and using the bridge to get back to earth.

Cap116
November 21st, 2006, 05:34 PM
If you catch something one of the replicators says, apparently they do call the Puddlejumpers, Gateships. As in ships that go through the gate. And also, RDA was awesome in this episode.

NowIWillDestroyAbydos
November 21st, 2006, 05:38 PM
Just watched it, could I have waited until March?, yes, do I give a rats a**?, no. Now to the review:

3 words: Great Visual Effects. I think they are Emmy worthy, and the Jumper (along with the city), look great in HD. That's one of the positives of illegally downloading it, Canada airs in High-Def, but the b*****ds at SciFi air it in Standard Def, so it looks like crap while still looking great, but HD brings out those colors that are usually hidden during SciFi's airings.

Jack was awesome in this episode, especially the Retirement scene. I doubt it was 100% RDA during that water sequence, a double (aka a Pro) was probably used.

The how they did it sequence at the end of the ep was pretty interesting.

I give it a ****. I'm saving this just in case this post is deleted.

Top Episodes of Season 3
Sateda (Tied #1)
The Return Part 2 (Tied #1)
Progeny (#3)
No Man's Land (#4)

jenks
November 21st, 2006, 05:42 PM
Pretty poor ep in my opinion, although there were some good bits, almost all revolved around Jack thought, one that actually made me LOL:

O'neill: So, am I to assume that you not surrounded by heavily armed SG teams and young strapping marines?

Weir: We've got colonel Sheppard, Ronon, Teyla, McKay, myself and Doctor Beckett

O'neill: Ooh, Doctor Beckett is there, well I'm comforted.

Beckett: What's that supposed to mean?


Actually, without O'neill I think this episode would of sucked quite badly :S

Atlantean_Fan
November 21st, 2006, 05:45 PM
But these weren't ascended Ancients, they're just run of the mill Alterrans. And they had been in touch for quite awhile; it's possible that they left Atlantis before the rest evolved that far, or perhaps this crew was more like Sheppard in "Epiphany", simply not interested. It's like operating an iPod. You could grab practically anyone off the street now and they'd know exactly what it is and probably how to operate it. But if you take someone who's been in stasis or on a desert island for the past 10 years and show them an iPod, they're going to think 'wtf is that?'. The crew that took back the city in "The Return, Part I" is like the people on a desert island. How are they supposed to know what's going on.

No, the crew of the Tria left Atlantis by the time of the Wraith war, the Ancients were already advanced enough as a species to be in Adria's level because of all the millions of years their race survived to evolve. Even if they left in the beginning of the war, 100 years is not enough to make them that less evolved in comparison with the returnees who ascended on Earth. If we were talking 1.000 or 10.000 years then yes, but 100 no. What I mean is that they were contemporary with the people that came back through the Gate and we know many of those ascended, they were on the same evolutionary level before the returnees' ascension.

Actually when I asked in the dead Ask Joe Mallozzi thread before it died about what kinds of habilities the UNascended Ancients of Atlantis (a.k.a. crew of Tria if they were Ancients, not stray cannon bullet seeded humans) had, he answered that we'd find out in the next SG-1 season, meaning season 10 and Adria. Natural power is not ascension, it's not a question of being willing to find a way, it's in your genes. If they were Ancients, they had those powers which makes what happened still lame, IMHO. Or I'm crazy and got everything wrong....

Sorry, but I thought I had to explain myself better, feel free to ignore this post if you will, but I'd like to know if you think I'm wrong too.

HyperCaz
November 21st, 2006, 05:56 PM
I'm a bit confused about the drones. When against the Puddlejumper, they didn't follow into the water but later with Beckett in the chair the went into the water to destroy the starship drive. I'm sure they wouldn't break off an attack just because of water.

Dax
November 21st, 2006, 06:32 PM
Pretty average at best.

Anyone notice how O'Neill seems like he didn't even knew Teyla/Ronon was there?

PG15
November 21st, 2006, 06:48 PM
"Rodney, Amazing" - I couldn't agree more. Ok, maybe I can.

People, Stargate Atlantis has arrived. And, of course, Martin Gero remains an UberGod. I would promote him further, but there is no level above UberGod that my brain can fathom.

First of all, let's talk about that ending. Within the short time of about 4 seconds, I went through these thoughts:

1. Oh crap, this copy's busted. I need to modsnip another copy.

2. Wait...the music is not skipping...oh crap, this is all an illusion!! Will I have to demote UberGod Martin Gero?!

3. Wait...there was no Asuran there to infect them with the nanites/mind probe them...why did they rewind to the Jumper scene?

4. Oh, I know, Niam wakes up and infects them right at this moment!

4.a. Nah, they would've noticed and shot him.

5. Hmm...the music is kind of "the good guys are finally smarter than the bad guys"-y. Could this mean...?

6. HOLY MOTHER**** THIS IS ****ING AWESOME!!! BEST. TWIST. EVER!!!!!

Ahem...so yeah, that was...THE. BEST. TWIST. EVER!!!! I'm stil giggling like a school girl over it!! Wait...that's not good...Anyway, I feel sorry for those who's read spoilers, because the parts of the episode before this reveal is so depressing as to their lack of hope that this sudden "we're gonna win, no problem" twist basically hit me like a bag of idiots with brick for brains. I doubt they'll get the full effect of it if they knew it before hand. Oh well.

So, onto the rest of the episodeBEST. TWIST. EVok, sorry about that, just let me calm down.

...

A few more seconds, stand by.

...

Ok, IBESTok, nevermind, continue standing by.

...



...

B...ok, I think I'm ready now. Right, onto the rest of the episode, which is brilliant. Some points:

O'Neill/RDA was just in form in this episode. I knew from watching the ep that some of the Atlantis-only's are going to get a little annoyed, but I didn't care that much. I loved RDA, he was the reason I started watching, so I loved his part. He and Woolsey/Robert Picardo was brilliantly acted on both sides, and I really got nervous during the diving scenes; obviously he won't die, so getting nervous when there is no need to is saying something of the writing IMHO.

Speaking of Picardo...that guy never disappoints, from his incessant questions to his heroic "I can do this!", complete with shivering, he was just...great. Damn, I'm running out of synonymes for "Good" with this episode.

Loved the little gun-waving Ronan did when RDA said "strapping young marines". :D

So, Rodney was right eh? Gateship it is. :D

We have 3 ZPMs now...great? I'm not against the idea since I know the writers aren't dumb enough to start discovering weapons left and right and beating the Wraith and Asurans within the next 2 episodes.

We got some very nice new views of the city, not to mention the drone attack. It was like Spiderman. ;)

"This is General Jack O'Neill, how's that for valid?!" Awesome.

I loved the hug at the end, and how O'Neill is all "huh?" with it. Good old Jack.

There were just a great many good things in this episode, and it'll take me a while to type them all down, but I'll leave it here. Suffice it to say, the future of Atlantis is looking bright for this fan.

10/10

Astrofighter
November 21st, 2006, 06:49 PM
yeah i think thats a continunity goof with the drones, no way else to explain it away

PG15
November 21st, 2006, 07:09 PM
The Ancient stuff, pretty lame if you ask me. They just got killed? Contradicts everything SG-1 has said so far about advanced humans and Ancients in the form of Adria, yes she grew up very unnaturaly fast, but other than that she's an Ancient/Ori (same thing) just like those guys and I think the number of Ancients in Atlantis was enough to desintegrate the Asurans telekineticly for what we've seen through Adria. Even Cassandra had telekinesis, for crying out loud!!!!! To believe they just died is to believe I'm stupid.

Ancients and Ancients who are trying to Ascend are 2 very different things.

Spoilers for SG1's Pegasus Project:

Morgan Le Fay said many Ancients only started meditating and trying to Ascend after they went back to Earth.

Now, those Ancients already Ascended in Pegasus could very well be another faction that pursued Ascension. Basically, it's not canon that all Ancients tried to Ascend before they headed back to Earth, and thus it's NOT canon that all the Lantians were "advanced".

And many could've ascended with the help of those machines we saw in "Prototype", for instance. And actively trying to Ascend probably helps too.


The story, while plausible, did seem a little rushed since they had to fit it all in a 45 minute episode. I would have liked to see what happened between Part 1 and the start of Part 2, but I suppose we'll just have to take their word on it.



Technically, absolutely nothing happened between Part 1 and the start of Part 2, since part 2 started before the end of Part 1 (they repeated the Gateroom-shield-not-working scene and the Shep Jumper scene before they left for Atlantis).

Admiral Mappalazarou
November 21st, 2006, 07:34 PM
WOW, that's so one of my fav SGA eps so far. I mean RDA was definately my favourite character, I think that he should become a regular on Atlantis. It seemed a bit super-hero though as he was able to stay underwater for ages...He's not Jonas.

It also seemed a bit of an Deus Ex Machina when a massive flashback right at the end showed the real plan. I liked it though. It reminded me of BSG a lot for some reason, probably because a lot of the episode revolved around parts of Atlantis being severely shafted by the jumper. Awesome!!! :)

It's great to see the return of Atlantis, god I've missed this series. I wonder what next week's is about...?

PG15
November 21st, 2006, 08:34 PM
Speaking of RDA, I just remember another pretty cool scene involving him, namely where he starts going off about what he was planning to do:

Lead Asuran: What are you planning?
O'Neill: Well, I was planning to retire, but man, is that overrated! I mean it's not like I'm a workaholic or anything, but you know, I like to stay active, with the community, it's...it's a health, um, maintenance sort of thing. You know?

Is it just me, or does it sound like RDA ad-libbed all of that? :D

Dromag67
November 21st, 2006, 08:56 PM
Awesome episode, and the Puddle Jumper was really Puddle Jumping this time.

RDA was back to his Jack O'Neill awesomeness the retirement stuff was pure goodness.

Woolsey actually stood up for himself and fired off a few rounds. Very good stuff.

I was not expecting a lot of the stuff that happened, very suprising. (even though I don't read spoilers anymore, which makes the episodes twice as good.)

Pretty amazing watching them blow up the atlantis control room.

Just wondering what happened to the ancient battleship Tria.

ZPM's galore, enough ZPM's to power the shield and the star drive, all we know is that it has to be more than one. And the fact that they lowered the shields meant they were still running at the end of the episode thus not depleted.

And the little nod to the Jack/Sam shippers. :P

Can't wait to find out the ramifacations of this episode, they can't hit the reset button completely.

A lot happened.

10/10

macktheknife
November 21st, 2006, 10:25 PM
Sorry to be somewhat cynical.

Sweet... a completely recycled plot resolution..

A giant wave of energy that disassembles replicators....

Sounds familiar..

And would it be that hard for the replicators to go "hmm.. they were tampering with the shields, check it over... oh look. A blue crystal where we normally use red ones... lets just take that out".

Or... you know. Mind probe everyone right when they captured them.

And some foreshadowing on the space bridge front. I assume in a few episodes someone (more replicators? Genii? Wraith?) manage to penetrate the space ring and try to fly to earth and the bridge gets nuked.

Making the show atlantis with as many ZPM as the writers want to give (although ZPM hunt was a good driver for singular episodes) but back on it's own again (almost literally if SG1 stays cancelled).

ps : gateship = awesome.

Gate gal
November 21st, 2006, 10:30 PM
Nod to Jack/Sam shippers????? What nod??? Someone please elaborate. Are we shippers going to like this nod?

Big thanks to everyone who went to the trouble to spoil us about this episode!

FallenAngelII
November 21st, 2006, 10:35 PM
Jack just said "Bring Carter next time" because she's a brilliant scientist. Apparentely, any mention of Sam and Jack in the same room nowadays is shipper material (they're getting desperate because of the lack of shipping material since season 8).

PG15
November 21st, 2006, 10:39 PM
Sorry to be somewhat cynical.

Sweet... a completely recycled plot resolution..

A giant wave of energy that disassembles replicators....

Sounds familiar..

Don't fix what's not broken. ;)


And would it be that hard for the replicators to go "hmm.. they were tampering with the shields, check it over... oh look. A blue crystal where we normally use red ones... lets just take that out".

Or... you know. Mind probe everyone right when they captured them.

Sounds like the Asurans inherited a bit of their creators' arrogance.



Nod to Jack/Sam shippers????? What nod??? Someone please elaborate. Are we shippers going to like this nod?

Big thanks to everyone who went to the trouble to spoil us about this episode!

Well, Jack mentions Carter a few times, and mostly about her intelligence/usefulness on missions.

Is that good?

ForcedToRegister
November 21st, 2006, 10:40 PM
Entertaining episode but wasn't one of my favorites.

Things I didn't like:
-kind of heavy on the technobabble (suspending disbelief is great and all but at times I was as bewildered as Ronon)
-the reset button always seems like a copout...at least there was no beaming involved
-O'Niell had way too many jokes...excessive to the point that I found him more annoying than funny =\

Nitpicking:
-what happened with the ancient warship?
-drones: hydrophobic or hydrophilic?
-the dead man switch...MacGyver feels shame =( Use a shoe !!!
-won't someone please think of the wee little turtles? ;)

All in all it was enjoyable and entertaining but not one of my favorites.

TheReturnOfTheLantian
November 21st, 2006, 11:09 PM
Entertaining episode but wasn't one of my favorites.

Things I didn't like:
-kind of heavy on the technobabble (suspending disbelief is great and all but at times I was as bewildered as Ronon)
-the reset button always seems like a copout...at least there was no beaming involved
-O'Niell had way too many jokes...excessive to the point that I found him more annoying than funny =\

Nitpicking:
-what happened with the ancient warship?
-drones: hydrophobic or hydrophilic?
-the dead man switch...MacGyver feels shame =( Use a shoe !!!
-won't someone please think of the wee little turtles? ;)

All in all it was enjoyable and entertaining but not one of my favorites.
omg shut up people across the world people is looking forward to this ep and your here saying it's mostly crap

xfkirsten
November 21st, 2006, 11:13 PM
-won't someone please think of the wee little turtles? ;)

Yes! I was disappointed at the lack of turtle!resolution as well. :p

FallenAngelII
November 21st, 2006, 11:21 PM
Transcript of episode - Mod Note - not normally something we encourage here in the Episode threads but since this is already here it is going behind spoiler tags for those that want to read only *hints* and have not yet seen everything


*Jack turns to Woolsey*
Jack: They've got a plan.
*Silence*
Woolsey: I heard.
*Jumper enters "underwater bay". It's really just a flooded part of the city.*
Carson: Careful.
John: Thanks... Doc (was that sarcasm?! Everybody seems to hate Carson today)!
*Teyla looks around*
*Jumper stops, sounds indicate it ran into something. Everybody lurches forward*
Rodney: OK. Closing the outer door. Yes... now, I'll just have to pressurize the compartment. And we are... *beep beep beep* Huh?
*Johns looks at Rodney and back at the water, at Rodney, back at the water, with a confused, kinda cute look*
John: What (frowns)?
Rodney: (turns around to look at John's back. So... doing... it!) It's not letting me do it.
*Their eyes shoot out to look out the window at the same time. How cute.*
*John turns around to look at Rodney while Rodney's eyes shoot upwards*
*Reaction shot of Carson with his usual "We're kinda doomed but I'm not panicky"-look*
Carson: The water's not draining now.
Rodney: Yeah, why-ell (imagine saying "Why" and "Well" at the same time), excellent observation, thank you (yes, let's hate Carson some more!).
Elizabeth: It is, however, draining in!
*Sounds of running water*
*Rodney joins Elizabeth at the back of the jumper*
Rodney: Oh, not again!
*John gets up to run back to the back of the jumper*
*Carson takes his place at the helm*
John: We took some damage.
Rodney: I just want to point out that this was not my idea (hand porn)!
John: You said "Get us closer to the city", this is pretty damn close!
Rodney: And yet no cigar (hand porn)!
John: Alright, just open up the outer doors, I'll figure something else out.
Rodney: Right (types on laptop).
*Beeping*
Rodney: Oh, dear.
Elizabeth: What?
Rodney: (panicky looking) I don't think I'm gonna be able to open the outer door.
Elizabeth: (mouth opens, closes slightly, like a fish) Why not?
Rodney: (panicky looking) I think it might be jammed.
John: Might (eyes narrow)?
Rodney: (still panicky looking) Ok, is.
John: Well, that's unfortunate.
Rodney: Yeah, I'd have to agree with you on that (John managed to make Rodney less panicky?).
John: This part of the plan isn't going so well.
*Omnious music*
*Commercial break* (or well, it would've been if this were the US)
*Shot of jumper underwater*
Liz: There must be a manual override somewhere.
Rod: In the base control room (cradling face in hand), yes.
John: (looking at something in the ceiling) OK. I'll swim to it.
Rod: Which is sealed from the other side.
John: Yeah, of course it is.
Teyla: (when was the last time she said something?) Perhaps General O'Neill can reach it.
Rod: Good. Ok (starts doing something with that beeping thing again), give me half an hour to get Niam to the right power levels so we can do this.
John: We've got more than one fracture. We don't have that kind of time. (turns his radio on) General O'Neill. We're gonna need a favour.
*Jack and Woolsey walking through a darkened hallway*
Rod (radio): K. There should be a hatch leading down to the next level. Do you see this?
*J and W walk forward toward something*
J: Yep, sure do. We see it.
*Back to Rodney and his hand porn*
Rod: The control room should be directly below.
*Jack shining flashlight at water. Control room is flooded*
W: *sighs*
J: OK. Slight problem here.
*Back to Rod*
Rod: What's that?
Jack: Well...
*Back to J*
J: The level below... is completely flooded too.
*Back to Rod*
Rod: Aah. I... couldn't convince you to take a swim today, could I?
*Back to J*
*Jack sighs*
J: Alright (hands Woolsey radio). You hear something (gives him his gun), don't call out to it! Shoot it!
W: Understood.
J: Anything that's not me is a Replicator (takes off jacket)! So don't hesitate.
*W clears throat*
W: You won't be gone long, will you?
J: (looking down at the water) Uh... kinda depends on the temperature of the water. It's... (dips foot into water... recoils). Not long (grabs radio). McKay?
*Shot of Rod*
J: What do I do once I get down there?
Rod: Hah (not a laugh, like a sigh), it's a manual override (hand porn). It should be in the centre of the console, it'll be obvious once you get in there.
J: Alright (clicks off radio).
W: Good luck.
J: Thank you (nods).
*Jacks begins to get into the water*
*Takes a deep breath... or he's freezing his balls off*
Jack: Alright, here we go.
*Submerges himself completely*
*Swims around*
*Swims into next room*
*Looks out window*
*Sees jumpers*
*Mouth opens slightly (WHAT?!?!?!?)*
*Turns, sees console*
*Swims over*
*Looks it over*
*Does "Now what?" motion*
*Swims back out*
*Woolsey looking at the hole in the ground*
*Jack's arm reaches up to grasp the ladder*
*Jack breaks the surface*
W: Did you do it?
J: Radio.
*W hands J Radio*
J: McKay?
Rod (radio): Did you do it?
J: You and I have very different ideas of what "obvious" is.
*Shot of Rod*
Rod: I've never seen it before.
J (Radio): There are dozens of controls down there...
*Jack*
J: ...I wouldn't even know how to describe!
*Rod*
Rod: Well, it's an emergency control (hand porn). It should be among the most prominent.
*Jack*
Jack: (almost rolls eyes)(sighs)(hands radio to W) Oh, God (sighs while saying it)(sighs)(gets back in).
*Swims over*
*Reaches console*
*Pulls 1st lever*
*Console lights up*
*Pulls 2nd lever*
*Door back to the room with the ladder closes*
*Sees*
*Panics*
*Panicky music*
*Pulls 2nd lever repeatedly*
*Pulls 3rd lever*
*Door opens slightly*
*Swims to other side*
*Pulls lever, water starts draining out of the other room*
*Lets go*
*Water stops draining out*
*Looks at lever*
*Swims towards door*
*Squeezes through with great effort*
*W looking at water, checks watch*
*Jack comes up*
W: God, you can hold your breath a long time. You almost gave me a heart attack!
J: (cough, splutters) Me too.
Rod (radio): General? Sounded like you were at the right control, why did you stop?
*W hands Jack radio*
Jack: It's a Dead Man's Switch. I have to hold it in place.
*Rod*
*Mouth closes and opens, like a fish*
Rod: I had no idea.
*Jack*
J: Really?
*Rod looking chagrained*
Jack: (hands W radio) Oh, God (dives back in).
*Swims to console, pulls lever, holds*
*Water drains*
*Rod and Carson watching the water drain*
Rod: He's doing it. He's almost got it.
*W watching the water*
*Hears footsteps*
*Turns sloooooowly towards footsteps (what an idiot!)*
Rod (radio): Tell him 30 more seconds 'til we're...
W: (cuts off radio)(heavy breathing) I can do this (no you can't)!
*Jack looking like he's out of air*
*Breathes through nose*
*Eyes open*
*Ronon hands John gun*
Rod: Woolsey (panicky look)? Woolsey, come in!
John: Something's wrong (hits switch, rear hatch opens). OK. You (hand pointing at Rod) stay here and reprogram Niam. We're gonna go and meet general O'Neill and Woolsey, alright? [We'll] wait for your okay.
*Jack breaking surface*
J: Whoh! Yeah!
*Turns*
*Two guns pointed at him*
Random Male Asuran: Don't... move!
*Jack cocks his head*
*Lantean cell opens*
*W and J lead into cell*
*Forced to sit down (forcefully)
Jack: (clutching at shoulder) Ah! Ow!
White Dude: Where are the others?
J: What... others?
*The others running through corridor*
*Walking*
*Sees empty gun shells*
*John picks one up (ew, dirty!)*
Teyla: They've been captured.
John: Yeah, looks like.
Liz: Which means their minds will be probed for information any minute now.
*Niam lying down*
John (radio): McKay, fire up that virus.
Rod: I'm working as fast as I can!
*John*
John: The Replicators have O'Neill and Woolsey.
Rod (radio): Unfortunately that...
*Rod:
Rod: ...information can't make me work any faster!
*John*
*John... growls?!*
John: This way!
*And there's more running*
*Cell*
Black Dude: What were you doing in the flooded sections of the city?
Jack: The backstroke. I think.
White Dude: What are you planning?
Jack: Well, I was planning to retire. But, man, is that overrated. I mean, it's not like I'm a workaholic or anything, but you know, I, I like to stay active... with the community. It's... it's a health, um, maintenance sort of thing. You know?
*BD and WD turn and share a look*
J: Uh, I don't like where this is going.
*The two Asurans from behind W and J grab them*
W: What are they doing?
*Dramatic music!*
*BD and WD approach*
*BD probes W*
*WD probes J*
*WD's pinky is all the way outside of Jack's head! What a bad prober!*
*Fade into Jack and WD standing besides activate gate*
J: Whatcyou doing?
WD: Probing your mind (DUH!).
J: (looks around) Kinda roomy, ain't it?
WD: (smiles) Your ability to resist is quite remarkable, General O'Neill.
J: It's not the first time I've had a hand in my head. As it were.
WD: If you do not give me what I'm looking for, I'm sure Richard Woolsey will.
J: I'll tell you what. Youl look around and I'll tell you if we're getting warmer or colder, alright?
WD: Ah. There it is.
J: So... hot, I guess.
*WD stops probing J*
*BD stops probing W*
*Gasping, porno sounds*
*Asurans leave*
W: That was the worst thing I've ever experienced.
*Sounds of door closing and cell fortifying*
J: It gets worse.
*Omnious music*
*Niam on the floor again (poor guy, spending half the episode lying down looking dead)*
Rod: Ok, if I (beep), that should (beep, beep, lots of beeping)... yeah! Ok, yes (gets up, walks to front). Stand by. I've got his power levels as high as I'm comfortable with. I'm gonna try (beep) to get him (beep beep) to...
*Rodney stops*
*Dramatic music*
*Rodney looks panicky*
*Turns*
*Niam's standing up*
Niam: You've been warned about tampering with our base code, Doctor. You won't get a second chance.
*Dramatic music*
*Rodney dives for disruptor*
*Niam approaches (walking)
*Rodney shoots*
*Niam falls apart*
John (radio): McKay? Come in, McKay.
Rod: Fall back to the jumper! We're gonna need a new plan!
*Omnious/Dramatic music*

FallenAngelII
November 21st, 2006, 11:22 PM
Well, Jack mentions Carter a few times, and mostly about her intelligence/usefulness on missions.

Is that good?
He mentions her twice... in conjecture talking about science and good people to have on a team in foothold situations. It seems like the shippers go crazy if he breathes in her general direction nowadays.

ForcedToRegister
November 21st, 2006, 11:35 PM
Deleted

Red Phoniex
November 21st, 2006, 11:41 PM
omg shut up people across the world people is looking forward to this ep and your here saying it's mostly crap


This is a discussion thread and people are entilted to their opinions. People like episodes for different reasons. Some people like some characters more than others, some like the story line, some like the graphics of the show, some like the history and development. (Think i got everything). For example, i didn't like Irresistible, as i don't like the 'laugh at yourself humor' but other people thought it was the best episode ever. I agree about the deadmans switch. i thought 'why don't you just get something to weigh it down'. IMO it wasn't a brilliant episode, it had good moments and don't get me wrong, it is worth watching, but it doesn't rate high on my list of favourite episodes. I do hope that in the next episode, they don't just carry on like nothings happened. i want to see people arriving and settling back in. Not to mention all the repairs going on.

Platschu
November 21st, 2006, 11:43 PM
I would like to try answer some question.

1. I think that the Ancient warship stayed between the two galaxy. The Ancients were not able to repair it, so they picked up the ZPM and went to Atlantis with Daedalus.

2. The drones couldn't follow the jumper into the water:

a.) John closed the "engine" at the two side of the jumper. Maybe the drones followed the heat.
b.) The Replicator can't use the Ancient chair as good as an people with Ancient gene (Beckett).

The episode was fantastic. RDA played the "old times" Jack from season 7, who I like so much. I think he really enjoyed the making of this episode and wasn't sad or bored. :)

Astrofighter
November 21st, 2006, 11:52 PM
Heat...i dont know about that, the drones can travel several thousand miles to their targets i doubt they go by heat

Also it sounds like the the only thing the asuarans lacked as being flesh and blood and of course not being able to atttack alterans before rodney gave them a way in...he closed the engines so they would slip into the water smoothly.

But I do agree the tria is in between galaxies still, we'll prolly tow it back to atlantis or earth and fix her up and use her again sometime in season 4.

Platschu
November 22nd, 2006, 12:00 AM
Heat...i dont know about that, the drones can travel several thousand miles to their targets i doubt they go by heat

Also it sounds like the the only thing the asuarans lacked as being flesh and blood and of course not being able to atttack alterans before rodney gave them a way in...he closed the engines so they would slip into the water smoothly.

But I do agree the tria is in between galaxies still, we'll prolly tow it back to atlantis or earth and fix her up and use her again sometime in season 4.
Right. So I think that they can't use the chair well. :) The three drones went different ways, so I thought that this is the sign that they lost their target. ;)

I didn't like that the replicators rebuilt the towers. Why and how? Somebody mentioned that they used their own replicator ship. So shouldn't the new walls fall apart too at the antireplicator shockwave?

I hope there will minor changes in the set of the control room. They didn't showed it, so maybe there will be a new glass picture behind the gate. :P

(Sorry for my English. :o )

quasarsky
November 22nd, 2006, 12:03 AM
I'm a bit confused about the drones. When against the Puddlejumper, they didn't follow into the water but later with Beckett in the chair the went into the water to destroy the starship drive. I'm sure they wouldn't break off an attack just because of water.

they couldn't follow the puddle jumper into the water because the control room was still being repaired and the sensors were down. the rep's even said that "we'll follow them visually when they are sight"

and by the time carson uses the chair the control room and sensors are operational again, so thats how they were able to go under the water.

FallenAngelII
November 22nd, 2006, 12:03 AM
Transcript of episode - Mod Note - not normally something we encourage here in the Episode threads but since this is already here it is going behind spoiler tags for those that want to read only *hints* and have not yet seen everything


*Atlantis tower (Stargate Ops). Night. Moon... wait, MOON?!*
*John handling the metal scrap that was once Niam*
*Drops it*
Liz: (sighs) He just came to life.
Rod: They must've got to O'Neill and Woolsey.
John: O'Neill would've never given us away.
Teyla: Obviously their minds were probed (since when does Teyla use the word "Obviously", anyway?).
John: Oh, they know we're here and how we got in.
*Rod watches John. So doing it*
Rod: Which is how they were able to (John watching Rodney. Sluts!) re-activate Niam, which pretty much screws Plan A.
Carson: Could you activate the freezing program another way?
Rod: I need to load the program directly into a Replicator and spread it that way.
Liz: Alright, so that plan's out the window. We need another one.
Ronon: These weapons will blow them apart, right? I say we just start killing them.
*Reaction shot of John. Kinda cute*
Rod: Well, normally I would share your Run-and-Gun enthusiasm but these weapons are only gonna work for so long before they manage to identify the frequency they use to disrupt the bonds that hols the Replicators together.
Ronon: What'd he say?
John: They build up an immunity (stop being so cute!).
Rod: Exactly. Look (Ronon looks... exasperated?!), the freezing plan would've worked because they would be unable to communicate with each other while we were blasting them. But the more we shoot, the greater the likelihood these weapon are gonna become ineffective.
Liz: Ok, so what are our options?
Ronon: I just gave you one.
John: We'll call that (cute) "Plan B".
Liz: Anyone for a Plan C?
Rod: (snapping fingers)(turns to John)(jump him now!) C4. How much do we have?
John: Bunch, why?
Rod: Well, it's desperate.
Liz: Well, so are we.
Rod: We'll just split into groups.
John: I was gonna suggest that anyway, why, what are you thinking?
*Suspenseful music*
Black Dude: We far outnumber them. If we conduct a search...
White Dude: We will be able to locate them more effectively once repairs are complete.
Black Dude: The damage was severe. We had to dismantle our ship to provide the raw material (No Asuran ship for you, Lanteans!).
White Dude: Once repaired, Atlantis will be all the ship we need.
*Woolsey and Jack in cell*
*Woolsey on floor*
*Jack sleeping on bench*
*Door opening (not the cel door, you dope!)*
*Dramatic music*
*Two Asurans try to blast John (one teleports in!). John blasts both of them*
*John and Rodney (who didn't see this pairing off coming?) run into the cell room*
Jack: Well, it's about time.
W: Thank God.
Jo: Alright, get them out of here. I'll stand guard.
*Rodney fiddling with the panel*
Jack: Hey! "Thanks for the rescue".
Rod: Oh, hey, uh (hand porn), no problem.
Ja: No. You should be saying "Thanks for the rescue".
Rod: (looks back and forth between W and J) Oh, uh. Right. Thanks. Should have you out of there in no time. This won't take long at all.
*beeping*
Rod: Oh, my. What, they, they changed the codes.
W: But you can crack it, right? You need to get us out of here.
*Jack looking... weird*
Rod: Yeah, of course I can. Just give me, like, one, two seconds.
*More panel-tampering*
Ja: So I guess that Frozen Replicator Plan didn't pan out.
Rod: Yeah... no-not so much.
Ja: How's that Plan B working for you? Good?
Rod: (more fish mouths) Actually, it's more like a Plan C. C as in C4, if you catch my drift?
Ja: No.
Rod: Let's just say that we're concerned the Daedalus won't be able to carry out your standing orders.
W: What? To destroy Atlantis with nuclear weapons? I thought we were past that (since when? C4's nuclear?!). Why are we going back to that?
Rod: Well, yes, it's the only way.
Ja: Can you do that?
Rod: Yeah, if we plant charges in all ten of the shield emitters before the Daedalus arrives, that way when the Replicators try to activate the shield...
W: The C4 detonates, the Daedalus beams a warhead into the city and we all get vaporized!
Jack: Sounds more like a Plan F (W punches air) doesn't it? As in we are totally (yes, we all know what you and Daniel did a while ago).
Rod: Look, we can fight our way back to the bay. Then we'll be able to fly the jumper to a safe distance. Well, that is if we can get the underwater bay open, so...
Ja: You can't even open this door!
Rod: Hey, I'm working on it.
Ja: Yes, I see that!
*Johns comes running in*
John: We've got company. Sorry, Sir, we'll have to come back for you.
Rod: No, no, no, no. We can't leave them here. They, they know too much.
Jo: What'd you tell them?
Rod: Oh, I mean, they guessed most of it.
*John smacks Rodney on the back of his head. The McShep Lovetap!*
John: What, you filled in the rest?
Rod: I thought I would have time to get them out of here. Look, just forget what I said.
Ja: Sheppard, get out of here while you still can (before you and McKay do it and fall in love... some more!), that's an order.

2ndgenerationalteran
November 22nd, 2006, 12:31 AM
FallenangelII thanks for the transcripts i really appreciate them. did you tape the episode or is there somewhere to dl it from?

silence
November 22nd, 2006, 12:51 AM
they couldn't follow the puddle jumper into the water because the control room was still being repaired and the sensors were down. the rep's even said that "we'll follow them visually when they are sight"

and by the time carson uses the chair the control room and sensors are operational again, so thats how they were able to go under the water.

i was just about to say that... i watched it twice yesterday and first time i watched i didnt catch everything, so i was thinking they have a plot hole there, but second time it was clear that they needed sensors to control drones...

my guess is that they activated chair via some control to have control over drones, but none of them acctually sat in it... since they have no genes at all (they are replicators). and when team knocked out control room and took out sensors, they had to rely on what they could see. there is clear shot of Asuran standing outside and watching and only after that they fire drones...
so since there were no Asurans under water.. they couldnt follow PJ there...

makes sense... Asurans communicate with each other all the time and they can control the drones while they see them.. they use their own as sensors, but under water is for them out of sensor range ;)

2ndgenerationalteran
November 22nd, 2006, 12:57 AM
watched it twice? did you tape your own?

Kribby
November 22nd, 2006, 01:09 AM
Hey FallenAngelII

I LOVE YOU!

Thanks for transcribing and posting the script. I love your little side notes...

-K:ronan: :teyla: :weir: :mckay: :beckett: :sheppard:

FallenAngelII
November 22nd, 2006, 01:13 AM
Transcript of episode - Mod Note - not normally something we encourage here in the Episode threads but since this is already here it is going behind spoiler tags for those that want to read only *hints* and have not yet seen everything


*Atlantis tower (Stargate Ops). Night. Moon... wait, MOON?!*
*John handling the metal scrap that was once Niam*
*Drops it*
Liz: (sighs) He just came to life.
Rod: They must've got to O'Neill and Woolsey.
John: O'Neill would've never given us away.
Teyla: Obviously their minds were probed (since when does Teyla use the word "Obviously", anyway?).
John: Oh, they know we're here and how we got in.
*Rod watches John. So doing it*
Rod: Which is how they were able to (John watching Rodney. Sluts!) re-activate Niam, which pretty much screws Plan A.
Carson: Could you activate the freezing program another way?
Rod: I need to load the program directly into a Replicator and spread it that way.
Liz: Alright, so that plan's out the window. We need another one.
Ronon: These weapons will blow them apart, right? I say we just start killing them.
*Reaction shot of John. Kinda cute*
Rod: Well, normally I would share your Run-and-Gun enthusiasm but these weapons are only gonna work for so long before they manage to identify the frequency they use to disrupt the bonds that hols the Replicators together.
Ronon: What'd he say?
John: They build up an immunity (stop being so cute!).
Rod: Exactly. Look (Ronon looks... exasperated?!), the freezing plan would've worked because they would be unable to communicate with each other while we were blasting them. But the more we shoot, the greater the likelihood these weapon are gonna become ineffective.
Liz: Ok, so what are our options?
Ronon: I just gave you one.
John: We'll call that (cute) "Plan B".
Liz: Anyone for a Plan C?
Rod: (snapping fingers)(turns to John)(jump him now!) C4. How much do we have?
John: Bunch, why?
Rod: Well, it's desperate.
Liz: Well, so are we.
Rod: We'll need to split into groups.
John: I was gonna suggest that anyway, why, what are you thinking?
*Suspenseful music*
Black Dude: We far outnumber them. If we conduct a search...
White Dude: We will be able to locate them more effectively once repairs are complete.
Black Dude: The damage was severe. We had to dismantle our ship to provide the raw material (No Asuran ship for you, Lanteans!).
White Dude: Once repaired, Atlantis will be all the ship we need.
*Woolsey and Jack in cell*
*Woolsey on floor*
*Jack sleeping on bench*
*Door opening (not the cel door, you dope!)*
*Dramatic music*
*Two Asurans try to blast John (one teleports in!). John blasts both of them*
*John and Rodney (who didn't see this pairing off coming?) run into the cell room*
Jack: Well, it's about time.
W: Thank God.
Jo: Alright, get them out of here. I'll stand guard.
*Rodney fiddling with the panel*
Jack: Hey! "Thanks for the rescue".
Rod: Oh, hey, uh (hand porn), no problem.
Ja: No. You should be saying "Thanks for the rescue".
Rod: (looks back and forth between W and J) Oh, uh. Right. Thanks. Should have you out of there in no time. This won't take long at all.
*beeping*
Rod: Oh, my. What, they, they changed the codes.
W: But you can crack it, right? You need to get us out of here.
*Jack looking... weird*
Rod: Yeah, of course I can. Just give me, like, one, two seconds.
*More panel-tampering*
Ja: So I guess that Frozen Replicator Plan didn't pan out.
Rod: Yeah... no-not so much.
Ja: How's that Plan B working for you? Good?
Rod: (more fish mouths) Actually, it's more like a Plan C. C as in C4, if you catch my drift?
Ja: No.
Rod: Let's just say that we're concerned the Daedalus won't be able to carry out your standing orders.
W: What? To destroy Atlantis with nuclear weapons? I thought we were past that (since when? C4's nuclear?!). Why are we going back to that?
Rod: Well, yes, it's the only way.
Ja: Can you do that?
Rod: Yeah, if we plant charges in all ten of the shield emitters before the Daedalus arrives, that way when the Replicators try to activate the shield...
W: The C4 detonates, the Daedalus beams a warhead into the city and we all get vaporized!
Jack: Sounds more like a Plan F (W punches air) doesn't it? As in we are totally (yes, we all know what you and Daniel did a while ago).
Rod: Look, we can fight our way back to the bay. Then we'll be able to fly the jumper to a safe distance. Well, that is if we can get the underwater bay open, so...
Ja: You can't even open this door!
Rod: Hey, I'm working on it.
Ja: Yes, I see that!
*Johns comes running in*
John: We've got company. Sorry, Sir, we'll have to come back for you.
Rod: No, no, no, no. We can't leave them here. They, they know too much.
Jo: What'd you tell them?
Rod: Oh, I mean, they guessed most of it.
*John smacks Rodney on the back of his head. The McShep Lovetap!*
John: What, you filled in the rest?
Rod: I thought I would have time to get them out of here. Look, just forget what I said.
Ja: Sheppard, get out of here while you still can (before you and McKay do it and fall in love... some more!), that's an order.
Jo: Sorry it has to be this way.
Ja: Yeah, I get it (shooing motion). Go!
*Jo and Rod leave*
W: (sigh) So... we're back to being vaporized.
*Cheyenne Mountain Complex, outside, day*
*Eagle screeches*
*Gate activated, Iris closed*
*Claxons*
Landry: What is it Chief (still, CHIEF?!).
Walter: We're receiving a subspace databurst by a midway in the Alpha Site. Daedalus is holding station at their failsafe point and waiting your order.
Landry: Reply to Colonel Caldwell that General O'Neills order stands. Atlantis is to be destroyed at all costs.
*Dramtic music*
*Lots of fish mouth from Walter*
Walter: (sigh) Yes, Sir.
*Atlantis tower (Stargate Operations), outside, day*
*Carson placing wire into crystals*
Carson: Done... and done.
Teyla: (deep breath) Good (deep breath). We're well ahead of schedule.
Carson: Perfect. Now let's find someplace out of the way wait for this thing to be over.
*Panel closes*
*They leave*
*Ronon pointing his gun at the exit of the room*
Ronon: Come on! One more to go.
Liz: Almost done (looks behind her). We haven't run into a single Replicator.
Ronon: I know. It's weird.
*Panels closes*
Liz: Woolsey and O'Neill said that there are 100s of them. Where are they?
Ronon: Let's go!
*Liz grabs her gun*
Rod: Ok, that should do it (places C4 inside of crystal panel).
John: One more to go.
Rod: Ah, it's all over but the crying.
John: Hopefully them, not us.
*Thumping sound*
*John and Rod look up*
Rod: What the Hell...
*Turns, walks to terminal (with screen). Looks at screen*
Rod: No wonder they weren't coming after us. They're busing repairing the city.
*Weird sound*
*Looks around*
John: What is that (looking adorable)?
Rodney: They brought their ZPMs to power the Stardrive.
John: So that sound is...
Rod: City is about to take off!
*Pan of the city*
Rod: Time to start crying.
John: For all, they have to activate the shields to take off, won't they? We got most of their emitters.
Rod: Well most ain't (ain't?!) gonna cut it. For this plan to work, it is all or nothing.
Jo: What do they want to fly around for?
Rod: Well, maybe they want to fly home, back to their homeworld.
Jo: (sigh) Take on the Daedalus (sigh)! Well how are we gonna stop them?
Rod: Well, I...
John: (snaps fingers) Drones! They fired drones at us. That means the chair is active and powered!
Rod: You wanna fire drones at the city? We're nowhere near the chair!
John: (finger pointing) But Teyla and Beckett are (grabs radio).
Carson: You want me to do what?
John (radio): Just...
John: ...do what I say!
Carson (radio): Alright.
Carson: I'll give it a try. But no apologies if I happen to destroy the whole bloody city.
John: Stardrive Carson, concentrate on the Stardrive.
Car: Right.
Jo: And Teyla...
John: You may have to fight your way in.
Tey: I'm ready, Colonel.
John (radio): Use your ARG sparingly. They may build up an immunity.
John: We may have to go to plan... B.
Carson: Ok. Which was that again?
*John looks confused, looks at Rodney*
*Rodney rolls his eyes (kinda) and looks away*
Jo: Never mind! Just go!
*Carson and Teyla run off*
*Teyla enters a room with four Asurans dual wielding two ARGs. Shoot two, then crosses arms and shoot the other two at her sides*
Tey: Clear!
*Carson enters*
Car: Thank you, dear (skips (SKIPS!) to the chair).
Tey: Hurry.
*Carson sits down*
*Pan from the gate*
*Omnious music*
*WD, BD and 4 Asurans enter Stargate Operations*
BD: They've taken out the guards in the Chair Room.
*They reach a terminal. Turn it on, beeping, typing*
WD: What are they doing?
*Carson lying down in the chair*
*Hatch opens*
*Three drones shoot out*
*Carson concentrating. He looks really constipated*
*Drones enter water, flies downwards. We see them fly past the camera, then an explosion*
*Asurans reel from the shock*
BD: They've hit the Stardrive.
WD: Search and destroy teams are on their way to the chair room now.
BD: Make sure they understand we need them alive.
*WD leaves*
*Carson constipated again*
Teyla: Beckett (since when does she call people by their last names?!)!
*Carson turns head*
*Sees Teyla get stunned*
*Gets up*
*Grabs gun, points*
*Stops, three guns poised at him*
Car: Ok, lads. Easy (slowly gets down, drops his gun). Easy.
*Asurans grab Carson, takes him away. Another carries Teyla*

FallenAngelII
November 22nd, 2006, 01:13 AM
Transcript of episode - Mod Note - not normally something we encourage here in the Episode threads but since this is already here it is going behind spoiler tags for those that want to read only *hints* and have not yet seen everything

*Liz finishing, panel closing*
*Footsteps*
*Ronon fires off his gun (not disruptor)*
*4 shots hit the same Asuran, nothing*
*Asuran grabs Liz*
*Two Asurans go for Ronon*
*One pulls on his hair*
*Ronon screams in pain*
*Ronon gets swept off his feet by a kick*
*Falls down to the floor*
*Is grabbed and taken away*
*Panel closes*
*Rodney and John turn*
*Faced with guns (5)*
John: And I was so sure we were gonna survive this one.
*Jo and Rod get their weapons confiscated*
Rod: Me too.
Asuran: Move!
*Lead out at gunpoint*
*Sound of cell opening as John and Rod are taken to holding room*
*Thrown in head first, John first, then Rod*
Asuran: Bring the prisoners from the other cell.
*Door closes*
John: Ah, everyone okay?
*Door closes, door fortifies*
Liz: So far.
Car: I'll be fine.
Ron: Why aren't we dead yet?
Jo: Probably saving us for a little recreational mind probing (you slut!).
*Rod winces. Possibly from getting thrown to the floor or from the thought of someone else other than John probing him*
Jo: Did anyone else get the (hand porn).
Teyla: We completed our task.
Liz: So did we (looks at Ron). In good time.
Ron: You?
Rod: Uh, yeah. Just, under the wire (hand motion).
*Door opens*
*W and Ja lead in*
WD: Did you really think you'd be able to stop us?
Jo: Well, of course we did (Wii, he's so cute!). Why else would we be here *smiles... seductively?!*?
Ja: Colonel! Am I gonna have to fire you (stop stealing my schtick!)?
Jo: No, Sir. Think you'll have that to look forward to when we get back.
WD: I'm afraid your plan has been discovered, Colonel Sheppard. It is over.
*Everyone turns and looks at Woolsey*
W: He put his hand in my forehead. How can you resist that?
Ja: Well, I'd like to close my eyes and think of England (no, you love it when Daniel probes you!).
*Woolsey looks apologetic*
WD: Mr. Woolsey informed us of everything we needed to know (Asuran standing next to WD takes a C4-package out of the bag he's holding and shows it). All of your C4 has been removed from the emitters. I'm afraid they won't be destroyed when the Daedalus arrives (John smiles sadly). (Elizabeth closes her eyes and shakes her head) Which should be at any moment. The plan has failed.
Ja: *smacks his lips* *Looks at Woolsey*
*Ronon and Rodney share a look. Ronon's half smiling*
*Control room*
BD: Thalus (he's got a name, WD!), the Daedalus...
BD (radio): ...is approaching the planet.
Thalus: As expected (John cocks eyebrow). Activate the shields!
*BD moves hand to activate the shields in slow motion. He freezes midway*
*White out*
*Backtracking (fast) through footage to Rodney snapping his fingers*
Rod: C4. How much do we have?
John: Bunch, why?
Rod: Well, it's desperate.
Liz: Well, so are we.
Rod: We'll need to split into groups.
John: I was gonna suggest that anyway, why, what are you thinking?
Rod: If we're gonna destroy these guys using Replicator disruptors, we have to hit them all at once (hand porn). We'll probably only get a dozen or so shots off before they manage to figure out the frequency.
Jo: So what, you're gonna get them all to stand in one place at the same time.
Rod: Clever (in the tone that says "It's a good thing you're pretty"), yes. Or, we could figure out a way to send one massive blast through the city. Look, follow me (leaves).
*White out*
*Rodney in front of a panel. Everyone huddle behind it*
Rod: Atlantis has 10 of these emitters, with which to create the city's shields. So (places C4 in the panel), if we can interface the crystals from disruptor weapons (removes crystal from weapon) with those of the shield emitters, we should be able to trigger a massive (places crystal inside of panel... not once did he remove a crystal!) Replicator wave throughout the city.
Jo: Okay. That's where splitting into teams come in.
Rod: Exactly. Now, I need to show you how to do this, so... listen carefully. Slide out the crystal tray, you take the crystal from the Replicator weapon, you place it in the third slot from the right. Third symbol from the left activates the crystal tray (presses, tray closes). Clear on that? Great.
*White out*
*Team moving through Atlantis*
Teyla: They'll bound to find one of our groups working on the shield emitters.
Rod: Already thought of that. That's what the C4 is for.
Ron: We blow them up?
Rod: No. We feed the misinformation.
Jo: Alright. Once you guys've made your the alterations, avoid using your shiny new tops (taps toy a few times) even if that means getting caught (Ron and Liz share a look). OK?
*White out*
Rod: If we plant charges in all ten of the shield emitters before the Daedalus arrives, that way when the Replicators try to activate the shield...
W: The C4 detonates, the Daedalus beams a warhead into the city and we all get vaporized!
Jack: Sounds more like a Plan F (W punches air) doesn't it?
*White out*
*Rodney and John walking through a corridor*
Jo: General O'Neill didn't buy it, but I think Woolsey did.
Rod: Well, I did win a Serious Dramafest Award when I was a kid. Could've made it a career if I'd wanted to.
John: (nods) Wish you would've (no you don't!).
Rod: Huh?
*White out*
*Thalus finishes probing Ja. BD finishes probing W*
*gasping*
BD: We need to get to the shield emitter stations. Remove the C4 explosives you find there.
Ja: Way to resist!
*Door clooses*
W: I said I wasn't good at this!
*White out*
BD: Thalus, the Daedalus...
BD (radio): ...is approaching the planet.
Thalus: As expected (John cocks eyebrow). Activate the shields!
*BD moves hand in realtime, activates shield*
*Shield forms*
*Wave of energy descends from the top of the shield and moves through the city*
*We see 12 Asurans "die". We don't see BD in the Control Room "die", though*
*Jack is a taken aback*
*Woolsey looks up in surprise*
*"We won"-music*
Rod: Hah! It worked! I can't believe it worked.
Liz: Rodney, amazing!
Rod: Well, it was a group effort.
John: (handling that knapsack the Asuran was holding earlier) Good old plan D (throws it to Rodney). Works every time. You guys stay here a second (uh, why?).
W: Excuse me, but what just happened.
Rod: We turned the shield into a giant Replicator weapon.
Jack: (points fingers) I knew that!
W: You knew?
Ja: Well, I've seen Carter crack enough codes to know McKay was faking the door thing.
W: He was? I bought it completely.
Tey: I believe that was the point.
W: Wait a minute... you... you used me?
Car: You're alive. And you're welcome.
Ron: Ey, we're clear (DUH!).
Liz: Ok, we better get to the control room and contact the Daedalus.
*They move out, Jack and Woolsey being the last ones*
Ja: You see, Richard, you are good for something.
*Woolsey nods*
W: Thanks.
*The Daedalus in hyperspace*
*Bridge*
Cute Crew Member Whose Name I Can't Remember (the guy who sits at the bridge of the Daedalus): Sir, I have an incoming message from Atlantis.
Caldwell: Atlantis. Is it Replicators?
CCMWNICR: No, Sir. It has Colonel Sheppard's authentication code.
Caldwell: Open a channel (sigh). Colonel, I'd like to believe this is you.
John (radio): Oh, it is. Authentication code Alpha-Delta-Charlie-Niner-Six.
Caldwell: That code is no longer valid, Colonel.
Jack: Hey, Caldwell. General Jack O'Neill here. That "valid" enough for you?
Caldwell: (shakes head) You may have been compromised, Sir.
Liz: We're lowering the city shields, Stephen (nods to Rodney)! You can send (Rodney moves to do just that) a team to check us out if you need to. We'll explain everything.
Caldwell: Get a team of marines ready to beam down.
CCMWNICR: Sir.
Caldwell: This should be an interesting explanation.
*Atlantis. Dusk*
*Jack walks into what used to be Liz's office*
*Everything's a bit greener now (or it's just the lighting). Room is slightly different*
*Liz turns to face Jack*
Jack: Getting all settled in?
Liz: Easily (chuckles). Although their redecorating, little bit (jazz hands) spartan for my liking.
*Starts walking, they walk out of the room*
Liz: But the Replicators did do a fine job of rebuilding Stargate Operations (still, since when is it called that?!) back to its original state. How 'bout yourself? Do you check out okay?
Jack: Apparentely I don't have any tiny little robots floating in my bloodstream. Which is... always nice to hear.
Liz: Hmm. That it is (deep breath). So what now?
Jack: Oh, a jumper ride home to the SGC followed by a hot shower, followed by a hot toddy, followed by a hot (Daniel)...
Liz: I was thinking a little more selfishly.
*Jacks eyebrows rise*
Liz: What are the chances of my team staying here in Atlantis?
Jack: Ah... Elizabeth, if it were up to me.
Liz: It is up to you.
Jack: Right.
Liz: (eyebrows rise).
Jack: You can stay.
*Mellow music*
Liz: (smiles) Really?
Jack: You're probably still gonna have to get the rubber stamp from the IOA, but since you saved Woolsey's ass and you did a fair job on mine, I don't think that'll be a problem.
Liz: Well, I think I speak for all of us when I say "Thank you very much".
Jack: Hey, you came back to rescue me (no, they came back to rescue the city!).
Liz: Hmm... (cocks head and nods at the same time. Sideways, nod, that is) Yes we did!
Jack: Of course, next time consider bringing Carter with you.
*Liz smiles*
*Jack smiles (sliiiightly)*
Jack: Welcome home.
*Liz hugs Jack*
*Variation of opening theme song plays*
*Jack's surprised*
*Jack hugs her back*
*God, new crack pairing, O'Weir!*
*Hug breaks, Jack smiles briefly, leaves*
*Atlantis, dusk*
*fade out*
THE END

silence
November 22nd, 2006, 02:27 AM
watched it twice? did you tape your own?

you know i can't discuss it. if you look at my location, you'll know. ;)

daniel9
November 22nd, 2006, 02:28 AM
another great ep. glad to see rda in the ep alot./ i wonder if one of the reasons he can block his mind is becuz of being probed b4 and becuz he got ancient knowledge put into his head from one of those things that whips up from the wall grabs ur head and rearranges your brain. i also wonderr wherethe ancient ship is. as for repairs the asurans did to the control room. they said they used their own ship for that. so just whats going on with the ancient ship? didnt really see that ending coming with the tricking woolsey. the asurans did seem pretty stupid to me. and the milky way replicators wouldve found oneal and woolsey pretty fast since theyd have a cityful of "resources" to replicate from and completely overrun every part of the city. can wait to see what other goodies are in the city now that its up to fullpower and a underwater jumper bay. cool. 2more jumpers and tons of gadgets down there it looks like for them to play with. no more stardrive tho. i wonder if the asurans actually managed to repair any of it or if they were 2 busy doing the control room?. cant wait for next weeks ep. monday here we come. lol *watchs the ep again*

FallenAngelII
November 22nd, 2006, 02:33 AM
another great ep. glad to see rda in the ep alot./ i wonder if one of the reasons he can block his mind is becuz of being probed b4 and becuz he got ancient knowledge put into his head from one of those things that whips up from the wall grabs ur head and rearranges your brain. i also wonderr wherethe ancient ship is. as for repairs the asurans did to the control room. they said they used their own ship for that. so just whats going on with the ancient ship? didnt really see that ending coming with the tricking woolsey. the asurans did seem pretty stupid to me. and the milky way replicators wouldve found oneal and woolsey pretty fast since theyd have a cityful of "resources" to replicate from and completely overrun every part of the city. can wait to see what other goodies are in the city now that its up to fullpower and a underwater jumper bay. cool. 2more jumpers and tons of gadgets down there it looks like for them to play with. no more stardrive tho. i wonder if the asurans actually managed to repair any of it or if they were 2 busy doing the control room?. cant wait for next weeks ep. monday here we come. lol *watchs the ep again*
The repositories were most probably made before the Ancients left for Pegasus. Also, that Ancient woman, what's-her-name (the captain of the ship) got mind probed (and revealed that all of her teammates were dead), so I doubt a little Ancient knowledge (which Thor removed, BTW) is gonna do him any good.

silence
November 22nd, 2006, 03:33 AM
The repositories were most probably made before the Ancients left for Pegasus. Also, that Ancient woman, what's-her-name (the captain of the ship) got mind probed (and revealed that all of her teammates were dead), so I doubt a little Ancient knowledge (which Thor removed, BTW) is gonna do him any good.

Helia, captain of Tria.
Which brings me to interesting point. Where is that ship? It wasn't in orbit when Asurans came (since Ancients sent PJ), it wasn't around in this ep, so maybe she managed to acctually fool Asurans into thinking that all Ancients are there, while some were still on Tria doing repairs... which would make sense. She knows she and other in Atlantis are doomed, but she protects those still on Tria (somehow i REALLY doubt anyone would leave Aurora class warship just floating around).. that also means Ancients could block / deceive asuran mindprobing...
And would offer some clue why Jack could block them. We have reasons - Helia did it to protect those Ancients that were off Atlantis, Jack did it to protect plan, cause he knew Woolsey can't resist mindprobing.. what they have in common? Genes :D
Woolsey has no AG for sure, so he couldn't resist them at all.


/me loves to speculate

obsessed1
November 22nd, 2006, 03:44 AM
I didnt really like this episode...it kind of left me with a feeling of 'meh'

Having RDA in the episode just didnt work and he took so much screen time away from our characters. I think Teyla, Ronon and Elizabeth had so little screen time and RDA got to do all of the cool stuff that i wanted for Shep. If this was truly a test to see if SG1 have a place in SGA then i would say that it fell flat and i cant see it working (To hear that same carter is going to be in season four leaves me feeling cold*shudder*)

There were some nice moments with our team, the MCSHEP slap, the banter etc, but still...something felt wrong and off.

The ancients should have had more of a mention, the asurans were a bit easy to kill etc and since when have they had an underwater pudlejumper bay?? HUH???

The rewind bit...was interesting but it still felt a little wrong, but their plan was still a good one and i enjoyed its implementation.

I dont know, and the end. I wanted it to be our team again, celebrating their return and instead it was more wooden RDA.

I think aswell that there should have been some repurcussions for sheppards actions. There should have been a moment between Shep and RDA at the end with Shep getting reprimanded and then RDA saying, but you can stay.....

oh well,


just fell a little flat for me and im hoping that the rest of the season will be a good one. Im not too confident at the moment with all of the proposed changes that are coming, (different cast members, Carter etc)

Lets hope they can pull it back up as the standard of the first half of the season was really good.

FallenAngelII
November 22nd, 2006, 03:51 AM
Helia, captain of Tria.
Which brings me to interesting point. Where is that ship? It wasn't in orbit when Asurans came (since Ancients sent PJ), it wasn't around in this ep, so maybe she managed to acctually fool Asurans into thinking that all Ancients are there, while some were still on Tria doing repairs... which would make sense. She knows she and other in Atlantis are doomed, but she protects those still on Tria (somehow i REALLY doubt anyone would leave Aurora class warship just floating around).. that also means Ancients could block / deceive asuran mindprobing...
And would offer some clue why Jack could block them. We have reasons - Helia did it to protect those Ancients that were off Atlantis, Jack did it to protect plan, cause he knew Woolsey can't resist mindprobing.. what they have in common? Genes :D
Woolsey has no AG for sure, so he couldn't resist them at all.


/me loves to speculate
The ship is most probably still in the void between galaxies. However, it's been a month. So they might've repaired it or something. But I doubt the writers would let us keep an Ancient warship.

And if we're gonna assume the Ancient gene lets you block out mind probing, what about Daniel? Hey, Daniel managed to probe Replicarter to control the Replicators!

Obviously he's an Ancient. >_>' Because not even Helia could do that.

silence
November 22nd, 2006, 04:09 AM
The ship is most probably still in the void between galaxies. However, it's been a month. So they might've repaired it or something. But I doubt the writers would let us keep an Ancient warship.

And if we're gonna assume the Ancient gene lets you block out mind probing, what about Daniel? Hey, Daniel managed to probe Replicarter to control the Replicators!

Obviously he's an Ancient. >_>' Because not even Helia could do that.

He was twice ascended and RepliCarter was trying to get to that knowladge when he probed her. Don't forget that Adria is also having "special plans" for Daniel, prolly for same reason (not to mention what we know about "The Shroud").

So i guess we can call Danial "sort of Ancient"... since he has somewhere in his brain parts of what he knew when he ascended.


Not to drag this in here forever, i started topic about it. Are we 100% sure Helia didnt hide something (like... big powerfull Ancient warship) when she probed?

;)

FallenAngelII
November 22nd, 2006, 04:16 AM
He was twice ascended and RepliCarter was trying to get to that knowladge when he probed her. Don't forget that Adria is also having "special plans" for Daniel, prolly for same reason (not to mention what we know about "The Shroud").

So i guess we can call Danial "sort of Ancient"... since he has somewhere in his brain parts of what he knew when he ascended.


Not to drag this in here forever, i started topic about it. Are we 100% sure Helia didnt hide something (like... big powerfull Ancient warship) when she probed?

;)
He returned as a human. Nothing Ancient was added to his DNA. You don't "go Ancient" when you Ascend. And all of the Ascended knowledge was supressed into his subconscious.

silence
November 22nd, 2006, 04:40 AM
He returned as a human. Nothing Ancient was added to his DNA. You don't "go Ancient" when you Ascend. And all of the Ascended knowledge was supressed into his subconscious.

i know.. but only cause RepliCarter was trying to get it out was he able to resist and probe her. well... we'll see in coming eps what was really going on. no need to drag this forever. :)

cubby14
November 22nd, 2006, 04:46 AM
Just finished watching the episode and what an episode, the fact that they kept duping us into believing that they were going to destroy the city several times, I was thinking how the heck could it still be called Stargate Atlantis if it was destroyed but thanks to the brilliant Dr M. Rodney McKay with that fantastic plan of his, they were all saved and now the have a brand new control room and a fully powered city (3 ZPMs) but sadly, no stardrive. Still would love to know how it is that they only just find out about the underwater jumper bay.

KayMan2k
November 22nd, 2006, 05:07 AM
Somebody mentioned that [the Asurans] used their own replicator ship. So shouldn't the new walls fall apart too at the antireplicator shockwave?


No one ever said that the ship was made of replicator particles. It could have been made from real materials. After all, when the Asuran Atlantis clone was sent the freeze command, the city itself wasn't affected.

silence
November 22nd, 2006, 05:12 AM
they said they used ship for "raw materials" ...
just like their version of Atlantis was made of same materials as original, their ships are prolly made in same way.

FallenAngelII
November 22nd, 2006, 05:34 AM
Besides, there's been no indication the Asurans actually replicate a la Replicators. They're just good at rebuilding stuff.

Starxgate
November 22nd, 2006, 05:36 AM
General O Neil - What you doing

Replicator - Probing your mind

General O'Neil - Kind of roomy aint it

Replicator - Your ability to resist is quite remarkable General O'Neil

General O'Neil - Not the first time I have had a hand in my head

Gotta love Jack

The Ori
November 22nd, 2006, 06:18 AM
Just watched Episode 11 of Atlantis, wow!!!!

TOA
November 22nd, 2006, 07:40 AM
Is it me or does anyone else think the gift takeback stories are just too frequent?

IE look its a living ancient.... no no not really. Oh wait yeah they are, but their dead.

Seriously this plot device has now occured like 8 times in SGA, they need to move on.

Also regarding the ancients, am I the only one who thinks they're a waste of time? By this I mean they are almost always ... jerks whenever shown in person. They are arrogant to no end and once again their actions get them killed. Why would we even bother considering their attitudes...

Conor
November 22nd, 2006, 07:50 AM
The jumper flying through the city was amazing! I thought the thing was broken when it started rewinding!:cameron: And the reset button was annoying but still t'was a great episode!

Red Phoniex
November 22nd, 2006, 07:51 AM
Is it me or does anyone else think the gift takeback stories are just too frequent?

IE look its a living ancient.... no no not really. Oh wait yeah they are, but their dead.

Seriously this plot device has now occured like 8 times in SGA, they need to move on.

Also regarding the ancients, am I the only one who thinks they're a waste of time? By this I mean they are almost always ... jerks whenever shown in person. They are arrogant to no end and once again their actions get them killed. Why would we even bother considering their attitudes...

Really agree with you. It's like 'LOOK LIVING ANCIENTS!! No they're all dead'. What a waste of a storyline. What was the point in it?! It was a big thing this year 'We get to meet living ancients!' and look what the writers did with them. It was just, 'okay how do you get the whole of atlantis out of the city so they could get it back'. I was really looking forward to the future storylines that may have been created from having Ancients still alive in the Pegasus galaxy.

TheReturnOfTheLantian
November 22nd, 2006, 08:08 AM
can any1 post some good screenshot's please.

FallenAngelII
November 22nd, 2006, 08:11 AM
Is it me or does anyone else think the gift takeback stories are just too frequent?

IE look its a living ancient.... no no not really. Oh wait yeah they are, but their dead.

Seriously this plot device has now occured like 8 times in SGA, they need to move on.

Also regarding the ancients, am I the only one who thinks they're a waste of time? By this I mean they are almost always ... jerks whenever shown in person. They are arrogant to no end and once again their actions get them killed. Why would we even bother considering their attitudes...
It's happened... twice!

Also, for every arrogant Ancient, there's been plenty of non-arrogant ones. Not every single Ancient is a saint. You have to keep in mind that the crew of the Tria had been travelling nonstop for, oh, 12 years or so! Of course they'd be a bit cranky.

silence
November 22nd, 2006, 08:17 AM
here... just 2... not the best quality, sorry...

TheReturnOfTheLantian
November 22nd, 2006, 08:58 AM
here... just 2... not the best quality, sorry...

omg they look amazing got anymore bud?

prion
November 22nd, 2006, 09:05 AM
Is it me or does anyone else think the gift takeback stories are just too frequent?

IE look its a living ancient.... no no not really. Oh wait yeah they are, but their dead.

Seriously this plot device has now occured like 8 times in SGA, they need to move on.

Also regarding the ancients, am I the only one who thinks they're a waste of time? By this I mean they are almost always ... jerks whenever shown in person. They are arrogant to no end and once again their actions get them killed. Why would we even bother considering their attitudes...

The writers are stuck in a rut, it seems. Yes, this gift takeback stuff is repetitive. Perhaps the writers on both shows should keep track of what they've done on SG1 so they stop repeating it on SGA.....

FallenAngelII
November 22nd, 2006, 09:26 AM
omg they look amazing got anymore bud?
http://forum.gateworld.net/showthread.php?p=6024378#post6024378

Pitry
November 22nd, 2006, 09:46 AM
Hooray! Excellent episode. I need to stop beign shocked at how good Atlantis episodes should be, but two years of habit... ;)

The arrogant Ancients... well, they've been shown to be really arrogant, bnoth on SGA and SG1. Did I mention it's no wonder that race got extinct? Twice?... But TBH, it can bring in some interesting results. Pegasus Project it really stood out, the difference between Daniel's attitude towards and Ancient and Weir's - made a good contrast on exactly that point, someone who idolises them as Weir does now, and someone's who's seen things a little differnetly, liek Daniel - especially that her reaction is very similar to his at the beginning of SG1.. The same in Return part 1 - Jack's commetn about Elizabeth not being able to let go, etc., her own reaction when the Ancients came to Atlantis...

But now on to part 2, as there were no Anceints there :)
Jack and Woolsey, who would have guessed they can be such a pair! "I'm not very good at this", bwahahaha. And Jakc's initial comment about him being good for something ;)
Okay, I really didn't see the whole "Plan B/C/F" coming. The whole "That's how we did it", while re-hashed to death on television, was done really really well. Entertaining plan, too.

So, Repliactors are super-fast at reconstructing Atlantis? ;) I have to say tho, it's pretty entertaining - someone mentioned in an interview how the conference room is way too small and they're having a hell of a time shooting there, I guess they decided to seize up the opportunity and change it...

McKay was wonderful :) He's been down-played this year, which while necessary and a decision I agree with is a tad bit sad cos he's my favourite character. But they got him jsut enough this time - and McKay and Jack were extermely entertaining, too. I don't think these two ever had the chance to work so much together before? I don't recall they had a lot of scenes together in Redemption.

Jack on the whole - I really, really missed him. All the scenes he had - and how much Jack he was, felt better than several episods of seaosn 8 when he was a regular. Oh, yeah, and the "workoholic" line... that was a hoot.

Weir didn't have too much to do.... btu what she did was lovely. I've really grown to love her - and that scene in the end was really sweet. Carson.... not so much to do, and again, Teyla and Ronon.... but that's repeating myself ad infinitum, so I'll stop.

So, excellent. More, please? :)

Callie
November 22nd, 2006, 09:46 AM
What an amazing coincidence that Atlantis’ moon has exactly the same ‘face’ on it as our own. Did the Ancients terraform (lunaform?) the moon to remind them of home? This is a particularly silly nit seeing as the moon is presumably as CGI as the city is, so it was no big stretch of the imagination to give it different features.

Rodney’s statement about winning a drama award when he was a kid clashes with The Eye when he told Elizabeth that he wouldn’t be able to lie to Kolya because he was useless at acting.

It’s a good job the Replicators hadn’t locked the team in the Brig when they activated the shield! I doubt the team could have contacted Daedalus with just their hand-held radios, which might have been confiscated anyway.

A majorly careless nit: when John contacts Jack from the Puddle Jumper early in the episode, he gives his authentication code as Alpha Six Delta Charlie Niner. When he contacts Daedalus, he gives his code as Alpha Delta Charlie Niner Six. Does the order of the words not matter as long as you have all the right ones?

FallenAngelII
November 22nd, 2006, 10:33 AM
What an amazing coincidence that Atlantis’ moon has exactly the same ‘face’ on it as our own. Did the Ancients terraform (lunaform?) the moon to remind them of home? This is a particularly silly nit seeing as the moon is presumably as CGI as the city is, so it was no big stretch of the imagination to give it different features.

Rodney’s statement about winning a drama award when he was a kid clashes with The Eye when he told Elizabeth that he wouldn’t be able to lie to Kolya because he was useless at acting.

It’s a good job the Replicators hadn’t locked the team in the Brig when they activated the shield! I doubt the team could have contacted Daedalus with just their hand-held radios, which might have been confiscated anyway.

A majorly careless nit: when John contacts Jack from the Puddle Jumper early in the episode, he gives his authentication code as Alpha Six Delta Charlie Niner. When he contacts Daedalus, he gives his code as Alpha Delta Charlie Niner Six. Does the order of the words not matter as long as you have all the right ones?
They didn't expect to all get caught.

the dancer of spaz
November 22nd, 2006, 11:25 AM
Jack just said "Bring Carter next time" because she's a brilliant scientist. Apparentely, any mention of Sam and Jack in the same room nowadays is shipper material (they're getting desperate because of the lack of shipping material since season 8).

Ouch! :p

I'm a shipper and I wouldn't have thought of that line as shippy. *whimpers*

OK, so I'm thinking you need to do these little transcript things for every episode, because they're freaking hilarious. ;)

TOA
November 22nd, 2006, 11:40 AM
It's happened... twice!

Also, for every arrogant Ancient, there's been plenty of non-arrogant ones. Not every single Ancient is a saint. You have to keep in mind that the crew of the Tria had been travelling nonstop for, oh, 12 years or so! Of course they'd be a bit cranky.

The last "ok" ancient was in the first season of Atlantis - specifically Janus (jonus sp?) the scientist and Athar(santuary). In every encounter with a speaking ancient either ascend or not since then they have been very arrogant and definitely not a friendly bunch.

Some have had good reason (see Aurora from last season), some we're older allies (the young kid - orren) that had a personal connection to earth (in orrens case Carter). But in every other case its been the same thing.

Its not like anyone expects that all of them are saints - but inleast break even. At this point the majority of the species seems to be a loss. The way they are acting just seems to show exactly why they almost wiped out their whole species. Im pretty convinced they caused their own issues at this stage.

As to the tria crew remember they were in stasis for that time, not sitting around watching the blur. The captains actions were ungrateful at best, supremely arrogant and obnoixus is perhaps the better term. Had she simply asked and talked about what had been happening the whole asuran thing wouldnt have happened as she would have known that things may have changed with them.

bluealien
November 22nd, 2006, 11:52 AM
Not a bad ep - not as good as part one. It was a bit clinical compared to the wonderful character moments of part one.

RDA was better here than in part one but still only a pale shell of his former snarky self. I happen to be of those Atlantis only fans so really no interest in the SG1 characters at all.

Shep got off a bit lightly and the end seemed a bit rushed. Everything fell neatly into place without much effort.

Best bits were when Shep reversed the puddle jumper out through the glass and his flying through Atlantis - great moments.

the dancer of spaz
November 22nd, 2006, 11:56 AM
This is one thing I just wanted to throw out there, but I was wondering if anyone else is getting the vibe that Elizabeth is perceiving a friendship between herself and Jack that isn't there. :(

Honestly, I rather liked the interaction between them in TRW, but since that was in her head, I don't know if it's true. New Order, Part II suggested a mutual respect, too. But it seems like Jack's being a bit too subtle with his reluctant respect of Liz.

It seems she has a sort of hero worship for him, and I'd like to see that reciprocated from Jack, who could be a sort of mentor to her... Alas, it doesn't seem like they're going that route.

silence
November 22nd, 2006, 12:14 PM
This is one thing I just wanted to throw out there, but I was wondering if anyone else is getting the vibe that Elizabeth is perceiving a friendship between herself and Jack that isn't there. :(



Heh... shipper alert!!!
j/k

I didn't get that feeling at all.

the dancer of spaz
November 22nd, 2006, 12:54 PM
Heh... shipper alert!!!
j/k

I didn't get that feeling at all.

Good. :) Because I like the idea of them being friends. Like I said, I thought their interaction together in TRW was pretty cool.

Willow'sCat
November 22nd, 2006, 01:49 PM
Rodney’s statement about winning a drama award when he was a kid clashes with The Eye when he told Elizabeth that he wouldn’t be able to lie to Kolya because he was useless at acting.I did think about that, and it has become so canon that he is terrible at bluffing, but maybe the writer *Martin tsk, tsk* thought by just adding that bit at the end it wouldn't be noticed with everything else going on. Of course we get so little character development that we can't help but notice when a character mentions something about themselves. By next week he will never have been bullied in school and will have a picture of a dog on his bedside table. :P :rolleyes:


A majorly careless nit: when John contacts Jack from the Puddle Jumper early in the episode, he gives his authentication code as Alpha Six Delta Charlie Niner. When he contacts Daedalus, he gives his code as Alpha Delta Charlie Niner Six. Does the order of the words not matter as long as you have all the right ones?Aw, didn't you notice how tired Sheppard look? He can't be expected to remember something he probably got drilled into him from day one of being on Atlantis. :P

Can I ask for clarification, someone said SGA had a underwater PJ bay.... I thought it had just been flooded. :S

HyperCaz
November 22nd, 2006, 01:52 PM
The premise of the episode reminded me of SG1's Within the Serpent's Grasp. I would have thought Jack wouldn't be so dismissive of a small unauthorised team coming to his rescue, knowing the kinds of orders he's disobeyed.

kiwigater
November 22nd, 2006, 01:55 PM
Just a friendly reminder that asking for or posting download links (torrent or youtube or anything else) is not allowed - and that means BOTH in public threads and in PM.
If in doubt report the post and we'll look at it. Anyone persisting in asking for or posting links will be placed on moderation.

Red Phoniex
November 22nd, 2006, 01:57 PM
Can I ask for clarification, someone said SGA had a underwater PJ bay.... I thought it had just been flooded. :S

Sheppard said it was an underwater PJ bay i think. the water wouldn't drain out which i think means it normally does; why would it drain if it was flooded. just my take on what it said. no one kill me if i just misheard :P

Pitry
November 22nd, 2006, 02:08 PM
This is one thing I just wanted to throw out there, but I was wondering if anyone else is getting the vibe that Elizabeth is perceiving a friendship between herself and Jack that isn't there. :(

Honestly, I rather liked the interaction between them in TRW, but since that was in her head, I don't know if it's true. New Order, Part II suggested a mutual respect, too. But it seems like Jack's being a bit too subtle with his reluctant respect of Liz.

It seems she has a sort of hero worship for him, and I'd like to see that reciprocated from Jack, who could be a sort of mentor to her... Alas, it doesn't seem like they're going that route.

While I did get the feeling she feels closer to him than he to her - mainyl from that ending scene when she's hugging him and he doesn't know what to do adn then decides to hug her back - I did get mutual respect and a sort of friendship. They;ve worked together in the past, not just in Elizabeth's head - there's an unacountable period of time between New ORder and Rising, when she was heading the Antarctica research and him the SGC. I think after Lost City ("I sense there's hope for you") and the ending of New ORder - and then that - they did develop some sort of a friendship.
Well, that's how I choose to see it. I'd love to seem them interact more, it's been lvoely both in TRL and Return. :)

Willow'sCat
November 22nd, 2006, 02:12 PM
Sheppard said it was an underwater PJ bay i think. the water wouldn't drain out which i think means it normally does; why would it drain if it was flooded. just my take on what it said. no one kill me if i just misheard :P
Oh no you are probably right. It seems weird that they choose this episode when they need to dock the PJ underwater ;) to finally tell us that we have one... why I am surprised by this I have no idea. ;) :P So do we have lots more PJs then we thought as there seemed to be lots in there?

Um, also *I did watch it honest* if it is underwater then I take it the PJ was too damaged to remotely operate the switch to drain the water, but if you could remotely operate the switch from the PJ why not just have Jack go into one of the other PJs that was docked surely they could have opened one and Jack has the gene? He wouldn't of had to hold his breath for so long, and I know McKay didn't know about having to hold the switch manually but still... *needs to re-watch episode*

Red Phoniex
November 22nd, 2006, 02:59 PM
Oh no you are probably right. It seems weird that they choose this episode when they need to dock the PJ underwater ;) to finally tell us that we have one... why I am surprised by this I have no idea. ;) :P So do we have lots more PJs then we thought as there seemed to be lots in there?

Um, also *I did watch it honest* if it is underwater then I take it the PJ was too damaged to remotely operate the switch to drain the water, but if you could remotely operate the switch from the PJ why not just have Jack go into one of the other PJs that was docked surely they could have opened one and Jack has the gene? He wouldn't of had to hold his breath for so long, and I know McKay didn't know about having to hold the switch manually but still... *needs to re-watch episode*

The other PJ's were underwater as well i think. McKay just said it wouldn't let him drain the room, no reason why.

luvmac
November 22nd, 2006, 03:23 PM
I did think about that, and it has become so canon that he is terrible at bluffing, but maybe the writer *Martin tsk, tsk* thought by just adding that bit at the end it wouldn't be noticed with everything else going on. Of course we get so little character development that we can't help but notice when a character mentions something about themselves. By next week he will never have been bullied in school and will have a picture of a dog on his bedside table. :P :rolleyes:


Actually I think you can give Martin Gero some slack on that one. I don't think that bluffing (which is what McKay said he was terrible at in The Eye) and acting are synonymous with one another. When you're bluffing you are usually under intense scrutiny by a person who is trying to discern is you're lying or not. McKay obvious can't stand the pressure and he cracks (or has tells which lets a person like Sheppard know when he's lying). Acting, however, is playing a part and if a person is comfortable enough, they can pull it off. McKay was in his element in this situation and neither Jack nor Woosley were trying to discern if he was telling the truth or not so he wasn't under the same kind of pressure.

Anyway I don't think that's one of the bigger snafus that have come up on the show. Like when did the Asuran's threat Rodney about changing their base code? The only thing I can remember reading in transcripts was the fact that they wanted him to change their base code (which he reluctantly did). After that they escaped so when did the warning come? He hasn't even been face to face with one until Niam woke up!!

PG15
November 22nd, 2006, 03:51 PM
I didn't like that the replicators rebuilt the towers. Why and how? Somebody mentioned that they used their own replicator ship. So shouldn't the new walls fall apart too at the antireplicator shockwave?

See, this is another of those times when, just because both are forms of Replicators, people think they're exactly the same.

It's likely that the Asurans literally BUILD their ships, as in from normal material instead of Nanites.

unknown.entity
November 22nd, 2006, 03:57 PM
I'm a bit confused about the drones. When against the Puddlejumper, they didn't follow into the water but later with Beckett in the chair the went into the water to destroy the starship drive. I'm sure they wouldn't break off an attack just because of water.Does anyone have a good explanation for this yet? It's the only part in the episode that doesn't make sense to me. If this was a plot hole, the producers are dumber than I thought!

jenks
November 22nd, 2006, 04:01 PM
Does anyone have a good explanation for this yet? It's the only part in the episode that doesn't make sense to me. If this was a plot hole, the producers are dumber than I thought!

Maybe the Asuran in the chair thought that the PJ had crashed when it went into the water, so didn't bother the pursuit with drones...

PG15
November 22nd, 2006, 04:02 PM
There was several posts explaining that a few pages back.

unknown.entity
November 22nd, 2006, 04:04 PM
There was several posts explaining that a few pages back.Which were proven wrong a few pages back too.

funks
November 22nd, 2006, 04:28 PM
I didn't like that the replicators rebuilt the towers. Why and how? Somebody mentioned that they used their own replicator ship. So shouldn't the new walls fall apart too at the antireplicator shockwave?




On the future episode spoilers, it states that the Asurans are not like replicators in their entirety. They build ships, and things in a conventional fashion - not like the replicators/replicator blocks.

PG15
November 22nd, 2006, 04:31 PM
Did you read the sensors explaination?

ZPM_Plant
November 22nd, 2006, 05:03 PM
Can you say campy....Godzilla campy!.......If I didn't love Stargate so much, I would stop watching. Both Return 1 & 2 are too rushed......too many plot holes......not enough character development......WHAT ABOUT THE ANCIENTS FOR CRYING OUT LOUD!


Tech Junkie here with my review of 'The Return, Part II'

I watched the episode last night in high definition on Movie Central HD. It was on at 11:00pm on the west coast, so I had to suffer through one hour of 'Masters of Horror' before getting the nights festivities.

SPOILER TIME

I was happy to see the episode, and yes Jack plays a major role. The nifty 'roll back the clock effect to explain how were solving this' was marginally interesting, albeit cheap. The final solution was if anything, a Star Trek solution, but a change of pace to the old 'upload another virus' routine.

Good points:

Arriving in Atlantis Stargate Control - then blowing it up.
The City is WAAAAAAY damaged. Buildings have fallen over.
The puddle jumper flying through the city.
The puddle jumper flying through the city, chased by drones.
The city losing it's star drive. Dammit Carson!
The cheap and easy way to fix the Stargate Control, via replicator work force.
Jack, and the dead-man switch. Underwater no less. Yeah, like we believed even for a second he was in trouble.
Time travel resolution. Yeah, so it wasn't time travel, but hey - looked cool. Kinda Tarantino-ish.
Nuke midway station. Nuke Atlantis. Good plan.


Bad stuff: OMG - we're in season 2 star trek territory.

They only discovered an underwater puddle jumper bay... today. Had no clue it was there during the last 2 years. Riiii-iiight.
Neam-sicles. MMmmmmmm... Actor had 1 line. Wow.
The solution. Not telegraphed, and Rodney saying... "...It worked???!!"
Can we stay here Uncle Jack?? Huh? Can we?

Ok - been a fan, still a fan. But we're getting close to 'man in suit' type of stuff. One rubber alien, and I am outahere!

Tech Junkie.

prion
November 22nd, 2006, 06:10 PM
The premise of the episode reminded me of SG1's Within the Serpent's Grasp. I would have thought Jack wouldn't be so dismissive of a small unauthorised team coming to his rescue, knowing the kinds of orders he's disobeyed.

Jack was being an ass (and since he used that word several times in the episode, I would think it's permissable to use it here as it's canon dialogue) when Shep's team came to rescue them and save the city. As if Jack hasn't disobeyed orders.

personally, I thought there was too much time spent on the underwater sequence (yawn) and not enough on our SGA team saving the day (and where the heck were they at the end?)

prion
November 22nd, 2006, 06:14 PM
Not a bad ep - not as good as part one. It was a bit clinical compared to the wonderful character moments of part one.

RDA was better here than in part one but still only a pale shell of his former snarky self. I happen to be of those Atlantis only fans so really no interest in the SG1 characters at all.

Shep got off a bit lightly and the end seemed a bit rushed. Everything fell neatly into place without much effort.

Best bits were when Shep reversed the puddle jumper out through the glass and his flying through Atlantis - great moments.

Agreed :) After watching a SHowtime ep, yes, Jack isn't quite up to snuff, sorry to say,

BEST bit was backingup the jumper. Oops, sorry, slammed that into reverse did I? Heh. Guess we know a jumper can withstand plowing into a building now!

The_Tsid.
November 22nd, 2006, 07:55 PM
Finally!
For once, the team actually outsmarted their enemy with a good plan. Only took 2 1/2 seasons for the best and brightest to catch on to how to deal with their enemies. But admittedly. the Asurans were pretty thick.

Anjirika
November 22nd, 2006, 08:01 PM
Wonder why the Ancients never thought of disruptor to destroy the "replicators" rather then fire drones...

Cause the Ancients are not all that smart.... we've seen that. ^_^ I haven't read the entire thread but I loved it. I thought that it was jaw-dropping, awe-inspiring wow. It was suspenseful, it had me shaking in parts....I thought that it was great. Way to go TBTBm I was totally and utterly impressed with this episdoe. Season 3 is shaping up to be a great season.....but I don't think that it's going to last, and that makes me sad. Very, Very sad. I want my Carson to stay on the show, I don't want him to die. Althrough, Jack had me pissed off at times I mean come on Jack. Think back to when you were defying orders and Landry and Caldwel..grr. I hate them both. But I loved this episode. It was great. ^_^

Easter Lily
November 23rd, 2006, 12:23 AM
Overall, I liked the episode. More action-based than the previous one. I especially enjoyed the bit when Sheppard flew the jumper around the city evading the drones.

The little bit of misdirection was fun.

I'm glad that they used Jack a bit more in this episode. :) Loved the remark about retirement. ;)

Klenotka
November 23rd, 2006, 03:27 AM
I loved CGI. The flight of Jumper between towers of the city was fantastic. And the blowing up of control tower...wow. Too bad they repaired it then I would like seeing some repairs later.
Jack and Woosley were great duo. I loved their quotes.

But what I mind is Teyla...again. Poor little Rambo girl. They put her two ARG´s into hands so she can "single handed" destroy four Asurans while Beckett is standing in corridor doing...what exactly?

I liked episode for team and friendship moments, this was just a great roller coaster.

And I think that I am glad for Ancients to be dead...they deserve it:mckay:

The Ori
November 23rd, 2006, 03:29 AM
How come its now that we find out that there is an underwater jumper bay?

Man O'Neill is funny as hell, no can do what he does, and he was also talking about himself when he was saying to the Asuran about Retirement. He is hilarious!

prion
November 23rd, 2006, 03:35 AM
Can you say campy....Godzilla campy!.......

Took me a minute to think, yes, Godzilla, very appropriate. Godzilla did slam through a lot of buildings in that new incarnation (very good comedy, although I don't think they intended it to be that). Shep drove through the tower. Sorta similar ;)

The Ori
November 23rd, 2006, 06:01 AM
Yeh, I got scared there for a second though when it rewineded, I was thinking what the hell!!

Ltcolshepjumper
November 23rd, 2006, 07:02 AM
Agreed :) After watching a SHowtime ep, yes, Jack isn't quite up to snuff, sorry to say,

BEST bit was backingup the jumper. Oops, sorry, slammed that into reverse did I? Heh. Guess we know a jumper can withstand plowing into a building now!

PJ Shields were still up that's why.

Anjirika
November 23rd, 2006, 07:22 AM
Overall, I liked the episode. More action-based than the previous one. I especially enjoyed the bit when Sheppard flew the jumper around the city evading the drones.

The little bit of misdirection was fun.

I'm glad that they used Jack a bit more in this episode. :) Loved the remark about retirement. ;)

Yes, the John flying the jumper round the city was great and I was totally worried that they'd be blown out of the sky....the misdirection was totally awesome and the remark about retirement had me in stitches, as did the comment by McKay about the Sears Drama festival and how he could have made it a career.... :D that made me laugh out loud too.


I loved CGI. The flight of Jumper between towers of the city was fantastic. And the blowing up of control tower...wow. Too bad they repaired it then I would like seeing some repairs later.
Jack and Woosley were great duo. I loved their quotes.

But what I mind is Teyla...again. Poor little Rambo girl. They put her two ARG´s into hands so she can "single handed" destroy four Asurans while Beckett is standing in corridor doing...what exactly?

I liked episode for team and friendship moments, this was just a great roller coaster.

And I think that I am glad for Ancients to be dead...they deserve it:mckay:

Maybe Beckett was getting in the zone for the chair?I actually liked Teyla in this episode and I thought that was totally cool what she did.
As I said, the jumper scene was great.
Oh, the control tower! When they dropped the bomb I was like "OMG" and then the tower went 'boom' and I was like "OMG they blew up the control tower. OMG! Now what are they going to do?" And as for the repairs, nah I like the fact that it was all new and shiny- though Elizabeth's office was majorly Spartan. ^_^
As for the ancients- I know it's mean, but I'm glad their all dead too. ^_^

I was so worried that this episode would be really, really bad- but it was amazing. ^_^

Teddybear
November 23rd, 2006, 08:29 AM
Hello, this is the first time I log in in a thread , but i'm a big fan of SGA since the beginning and I'd like to share my opinions with you.
The episode was good but I don't know why, I'm a little disappointed , maybe because you never know if it's a funny episode or a dramatic episode.
I didn't appreciate a lot the big part reserved to Jack , as if he was the hero of SGA, I like RDA but in SG1 ( specially in the early seasons ).

I also found the replicators not so worrying or frightening compared to the great "bad guys" we have with the wraiths and the genii.

I didn't like the end of the episode between Weir and Jack , it was too much fast and simple , I would have found interesting that TPTB should explore the fact that they disobeyed orders, specially Sheppard who disobeyed for the second time :ronananime01: a direct order from a General.

But I loved a lot of things , and specially I found funny all the things about plan A ,B ,... F .

English language is not my maternal language , so I'm not sure to have understood everything , specially the technical babble is sometimes hard to understand.

Michelle05
November 23rd, 2006, 08:32 AM
I loved this episode, and though I saw the misdirection coming, I didn't know what the real plan was at all. Loved Shep hitting McKay in the head, but I wish he were a little nicer to him other times! The plan was great though. Nice to see them outsmart a foe on purpose, I agree.

The flight through the city was awesome. Jack doing all those underwater scenes was great. Can't wait to see the DVD on how they did all that. RDA is a very good swimmer! Loved Weir hugging Jack at the end, and his surprise and reluctance til he finally gave in and hugged back. That was the most human and playful I've ever seen Weir. Torri talked about how great it was to work with RDA at the con this past weekend. They do have great chemistry (and I don't mean romantic!).

The city has power again -- so cool!

FallenAngelII
November 23rd, 2006, 09:05 AM
I doubt that's actual water he's in. There's plenty of ways to simulate water and add the water in later. For one thing, he was down there for a very long time.

For another, at a certain point, Richard Dean Anderson's mouth opens slightly. In the real world, this would've causes bubbles to escape through at least his clenched teeth and forced him to swallow some sea water!

Michelle05
November 23rd, 2006, 10:39 AM
I doubt that's actual water he's in. There's plenty of ways to simulate water and add the water in later. For one thing, he was down there for a very long time.

For another, at a certain point, Richard Dean Anderson's mouth opens slightly. In the real world, this would've causes bubbles to escape through at least his clenched teeth and forced him to swallow some sea water!

Really? I don't think there's any way that was simulated water; it was way too real. And if you watch closely, you see each individual bit with him is pretty short. I'm sure he was in a tank and could just rise to the surface to breathe after each mini-take. For myself, I can open my mouth under water without letting any air escape. :)

FallenAngelII
November 23rd, 2006, 10:46 AM
But can you open your mouth without water rushing in?

xfkirsten
November 23rd, 2006, 10:54 AM
But can you open your mouth without water rushing in?

Believe it or not, yes. Speaking as someone who's done a lot of underwater swimming (I'm a SCUBA diver and I was lifeguard certified) you can actually open your mouth without letting water in and without letting bubbles out. I couldn't really even tell you how I do it - I just do it naturally. And it would have been very easy for them to shoot that scene as a lot of short cuts and then put it together to look like he was underwater for a long time.

I'm with Michelle on this one - that was real. :)

FallenAngelII
November 23rd, 2006, 11:02 AM
Then it was probably a very expensive scene as well. Submerging an entire set like that.

Elinor
November 23rd, 2006, 11:13 AM
The little "rewind" really caught me by surprise, and left me horribly confused for a few moments! :p

Oh me to...I thought something had 'broke' with my technology for a minute!!


I didn't appreciate a lot the big part reserved to Jack , as if he was the hero of SGA, I like RDA but in SG1 ( specially in the early seasons ).



Oh me to here as well. I so wanted Lt Col 'Sex on Legs' to be the hero and do the swimming here...he flippin' offered to as well...but we get O'Neill. See, this is what worries me if some SG1 characters come over to Atlantis...they'll get all the good stuff to do and our faves will be sidelined!

Ah well...I thought the CGI were fab here. Loved the reversing of the jumper through the gate and Shep dodging the drones. There were some very funny lines scattered throughout.

Shep: '...not to mention the painting and re-decorating'

Ronon: 'What did he just say?' to Rodney's fast explanation. I know how you feel Ronon...I got a job to follow him sometimes!!

O'Neill: 'Plan F...as in we're totally.....'

...and we got a 'McShlap' upside the head...haven't had one of those since 'Instinct' I don't think!! Wonderful!!

LOL...funny stuff!

This episode didn't give me the warm, fuzzy feeling of the team bonding we had in part 1...but there was lots of action...I just wish TPTB would keep SG1 and SGA a bit more seperate really.

:)

dove0709
November 23rd, 2006, 11:14 AM
Then it was probably a very expensive scene as well. Submerging an entire set like that.

It was real water. I remember reading an RDA interview earlier this year when he said, he had just come back from filming scenes in an underwater tank for Atlantis.

Also RDA is scuba diver, he showed a photo of himself scuba diving in an interview (The Craig Kilborn show, I think) a couple of years ago.:)

Dove

bluealien
November 23rd, 2006, 11:16 AM
Hello, this is the first time I log in in a thread , but i'm a big fan of SGA since the beginning and I'd like to share my opinions with you.
The episode was good but I don't know why, I'm a little disappointed , maybe because you never know if it's a funny episode or a dramatic episode.
I didn't appreciate a lot the big part reserved to Jack , as if he was the hero of SGA, I like RDA but in SG1 ( specially in the early seasons ).

I also found the replicators not so worrying or frightening compared to the great "bad guys" we have with the wraiths and the genii.

I didn't like the end of the episode between Weir and Jack , it was too much fast and simple , I would have found interesting that TPTB should explore the fact that they disobeyed orders, specially Sheppard who disobeyed for the second time :ronananime01: a direct order from a General.

But I loved a lot of things , and specially I found funny all the things about plan A ,B ,... F .

English language is not my maternal language , so I'm not sure to have understood everything , specially the technical babble is sometimes hard to understand.

You sum up how I feel as well.

There were good moments but overall I found it disappointing. Could have done with a lot less RDA - he was great in SG1 especially in the early years but now I just find him old and stale. I would have MUCH preferred to see Shep do the underwater scene and Jacks attitude to the team was condesending at least.

The ending seemed rushed and everything fell into place way too easily. No consequences at all for Shep just Weir asking if they could stay and Jack saying yes. If only things could be that simple.

grasshopper64
November 23rd, 2006, 11:17 AM
Thought this was absloutely brilliant, one of my favourite SGA eps ever!

I thought RDA did a brilliant job and it was great to see Jack back in action.
If I'd been disappointed by his previous appearances this certainly made up for it. The underwater sequences were impressive.

I liked Jack and Woolsey, I wasn't sure how that would work, given that Woolsey has annoyed me a bit before but the scenes between them worked for me.

Yes I think Jack and Weir have a nice chemistry, not in a shippy way but there's definitely a rapport between them, the hug was nice, but hey who wouldn't want to hug Jack:)

And being a slasher I had to pick up on Jack's line about "young strapping marines";) He had some great lines, I can't remember all of them now....

Overall some nice team moments, I loved this ep, I have some misgivings about some of the changes for next season, I really hope the show doesn't change too dramatically......

Anyway only a few minor downpoints to this ep for me. Landry - is it just me or does he seem to be different on Atlantis. They have him here as being such a "by the book" person that he doesn't seem to be so much over on
SG1.

I was a bit disappointed by the lack of mentioning the Ancients, I was hoping that some of them might have survived and been so grateful for the team saving Atlantis that they might have agreed to help us, well maybe not.

Overall a fantastic ep and looking forward to the next one!

xfkirsten
November 23rd, 2006, 11:31 AM
Then it was probably a very expensive scene as well. Submerging an entire set like that.

True. It was a start to the back half of the season, and they generally don't skimp on the budget for those. :)

scarimor
November 23rd, 2006, 11:50 AM
Good team interaction, nice flying through the city effects, fun realism with O'Neill having to go back and forth underwater, sound use of all the characters, solid pacing - could see the twist in the plan coming but that didn't detract from an enjoyable second part to the adventure.

The Sweet Guy
November 23rd, 2006, 12:18 PM
A solid episode but it was disappointing that the Ancient’s story was completely thrown out. I also was looking forward to a Shep and O'Neill team up dang it! Shep dodging the drones made up for it, some awesome CGI there. There was a lot of nice Jack scenes that reminded me of the old SG-1 episodes but he was in it too much I think. I would've shortened the underwater scenes. I was glad to see we found something new about Atlantis finally. I guess this is connected with the Atlantis ocean theme they seem to be setting.

Once again Teyla and Ronon were wasted but at least Shep and McKay weren't dominating the episode for once.

SGFerrit
November 23rd, 2006, 01:40 PM
Great episode! Shame about the Ancients though, but atleast the city is fully powered! (Minus 1 stardrive of course, but I'm sure that will be fixed sometime:))

prion
November 23rd, 2006, 02:39 PM
Then it was probably a very expensive scene as well. Submerging an entire set like that.

Ah yes, stuff like that is quite pricey. Could have spent the money better elsewhere, I think as they've already done several underwater scenes in both SG1 and SGA...

maggl
November 23rd, 2006, 03:36 PM
It's about time. Great episode 9/10
Nice scenes with Jack. But for crying out loud: Let him shoot someone or something. He hasn't done that since s8.

prion
November 23rd, 2006, 07:24 PM
If Jack had thought about it, he could have easily tied the deadman switch back and not have had to hold it. He still had his belt, right? Even his boots probably would have done the trick. Ah, plot device - hero must hold breath and save the day ;)

Easter Lily
November 23rd, 2006, 07:41 PM
Personally speaking, I would love for there to be more underwater/sea type moments in the show. Realistically, I can see that it's expensive but considering that the city is right in the middle of the ocean, they could take advantage of the environment.

Sheppard still hasn't been seen to do any surfing yet either!
:D

Mitchell82
November 23rd, 2006, 07:45 PM
It's about time. Great episode 9/10
Nice scenes with Jack. But for crying out loud: Let him shoot someone or something. He hasn't done that since s8.

Yeah but it was sooo funny seeing Woolsey trying to be the Hero.

Aussie_Fan
November 23rd, 2006, 07:58 PM
If Jack had thought about it, he could have easily tied the deadman switch back and not have had to hold it. He still had his belt, right? Even his boots probably would have done the trick. Ah, plot device - hero must hold breath and save the day ;)

Now that's exactly what I was thinking, lol.


Oo! My turn to write a review :P

Not a bad episode. I loved the interaction between Shepard/McKay and Woolsey/O'niell. They had me laughing throughout the whole ep. I enjoyed the Ronan/Weir bits. Something you don't see to often.

The little twist at the end was clever. I had been reading the spoilers and I knew something was going to happen but that wasn't what I thought, which made it cooler.

The ending bugged me. I want consequences! Lol. They disobey orders, blow up the control tower and they all live happily ever after.. Well, sept the Asurans :P

CGI = Amazing!

lord-anubis
November 23rd, 2006, 08:40 PM
best atlantis ep i have seen in while the only thing i dident like about it real. was how they just end up killing the ancents seems like such a waste and they just found them to. it was great the RDA was in the ep so much he had some great lines made me miss him being on sg1 all the time

Katherine Beckett
November 23rd, 2006, 09:09 PM
Haha Like a Total Geek who lives in Canada I could not wait till Monday and watched it on You Tube... all I say is.. WOOT WOOT!!

travis
November 23rd, 2006, 09:25 PM
OK not bad ep better than pt 1.

I thought the ep was a bit rush to try to complete it as it would have been better if they had another ep to resolve things in a bit more detailed manner.

I was really hoping to at least seen one or two Ancients alive I feel so disappointed and ripped off in so to seen a whole bunch of living and breathing Ancients to be killed so easily. The writter could at least gave us some insight and interaction with the Atlantis team before they decide to radicate them all. One of the reason why I love Atlantis is bassically about the Ancients, and what happen to Tria did i miss some thing?

The CGI was cool as aways with Atlantis, Tho I did have my dissapointment in this ep I still enjoy the ep and Atlantis it self.

Another thing does that mean we have 3 ZPM now?

Alipeeps
November 24th, 2006, 12:13 AM
Sheppard still hasn't been seen to do any surfing yet either!
:D

Well Joe says he's pitched the idea of Sheppard skateboarding and/or surfing in Atlantis but he keeps getting turned down! :lol:

2ndgenerationalteran
November 24th, 2006, 02:34 AM
sweeping duty at the end must really suck :)

expendable_crewman
November 24th, 2006, 04:06 AM
Just watched it, could I have waited until March?, yes, do I give a rats a**?, no. January was do-able, barely. March? In the middle of a season? They haven't invented that pill.

The episode fed my sci-fi beast in a big way.

Simply stunning. Someone mentioned the definition maybe being different than what I'm used to. I hope that wasn't the case, because I found the episode a gem to watch.

The use of water throughout connected beautifully with the *presence* of Atlantis powered up and presumably alive, courtesy of extra ZPMs.

A Jumper bay in a flooded, un-monitored, unused section of the city? That's what I'm talking about.

PTBs, I want more.

What else does the expedition know about the city that hasn't come up yet?

Richard Dean Anderson did a fine job of giving me the feeling Jack had been off world once or twice. I'm inserting a comment about RDA from a friend who loved the ep: "Whoa, Jack looks like he's been there, done that, got the T-shirt, and was wearing the T-shirt under his uniform."

Kudos to RDA.

As a team episode, the banter was on time and worked for me, as everyone in hearing distance of my laughter can attest. It didn't have the rather enjoyable "relationships" spotlight that I saw in Return I, but I don't think that kind of spotlight was worth slowing down Return II's sequences.

Teyla rocked in the chair room. (Replay, anyone?) Ronon had his replay moment, although it didn't end well. Can't we just go out and start killing everything? Um ... not yet, soldier. Weir looked good and, as has already been mentioned, did an eye-popping job of getting Caldwell to, um, NOT blow up the city, even though Sheppard and O'Neill had already asked nicely. Carson was adorable. I'm starting to like Woolsley, which is a bit frightening. I got my dose of Sheppard / McKay interaction. I got my dose of Sheppard, period. And dodging drones in a Jumper, oh yes, I'll have more of that any day of the week.


... my guess is that they activated chair via some control to have control over drones, but none of them acctually sat in it... since they have no genes at all (they are replicators). and when team knocked out control room and took out sensors, they had to rely on what they could see. there is clear shot of Asuran standing outside and watching and only after that they fire drones...
so since there were no Asurans under water.. they couldnt follow PJ there...

makes sense... Asurans communicate with each other all the time and they can control the drones while they see them.. they use their own as sensors, but under water is for them out of sensor rangeThank you so much for the drone use explantion. I re-watched the ep and I think your view is spot on.


Can I ask for clarification, someone said SGA had a underwater PJ bay.... I thought it had just been flooded.I'm twitching between explanations here myself. It was definitely flooded. But they definitely called it an underwater Jumper bay, like that was its name rather than "underwater" being its present location. The bay should be higher if it's supposed to launch Jumpers into the air. At the same time, the bay was in an unused, un-montored section of the city. And you're right about a switch ... if the Jumpers can launch under water, control of the bay's operation should be inside the Jumper. Doesn't mean Sheppard and Mckay and the rest know it, but it stands to reason ... and Rodney is so smart ...

Trailing thoughts ...

* There was no "turtle" resolution. (sighs)
* The speed with which the Asurans repaired the damage to the tower made me wonder how the repairs were held together. Kind of creepy, even though (I suppose) everything Asuran and / or replicator-ish would have fallen apart after the energy wave.
* Ha! I thought the same thing about the moon, as in, "Looks familiar!"
* Speaking of towers, doesn't the buried city from that ep the Tower have an un-powered but intact stardrive ... or did they nix that as a possibility in season two?


Hmm...the music is kind of "the good guys are finally smarter than the bad guys"-y. Could this mean...?Yes, it does. And it works. Smarter is better, PTBs. More, please.

Mitchell82
November 24th, 2006, 08:18 AM
OK not bad ep better than pt 1.

I thought the ep was a bit rush to try to complete it as it would have been better if they had another ep to resolve things in a bit more detailed manner.

I was really hoping to at least seen one or two Ancients alive I feel so disappointed and ripped off in so to seen a whole bunch of living and breathing Ancients to be killed so easily. The writter could at least gave us some insight and interaction with the Atlantis team before they decide to radicate them all. One of the reason why I love Atlantis is bassically about the Ancients, and what happen to Tria did i miss some thing?

The CGI was cool as aways with Atlantis, Tho I did have my dissapointment in this ep I still enjoy the ep and Atlantis it self.

Another thing does that mean we have 3 ZPM now?

Yeah we have three ZPMS just no Stardrive. I loved it thought it was just as good as part 1.

scarimor
November 24th, 2006, 10:20 AM
Yeah we have three ZPMS just no Stardrive. I loved it thought it was just as good as part 1.
Was the stardrive destroyed or just "hit"? i.e., might it be mendable?

FallenAngelII
November 24th, 2006, 10:59 AM
Was the stardrive destroyed or just "hit"? i.e., might it be mendable?
Three drones. Big explosion. Shook the city.

prion
November 24th, 2006, 11:20 AM
Three drones. Big explosion. Shook the city.

while they got the city back, the tower's all spiffed up again, don't they have, like, um, some bad damage underneath if said drones took out the stardrive??

FallenAngelII
November 24th, 2006, 11:42 AM
while they got the city back, the tower's all spiffed up again, don't they have, like, um, some bad damage underneath if said drones took out the stardrive??
Carson concentrated on them taking out the stardrive. Besides, a drone-explosion, not so big really.

lord-anubis
November 24th, 2006, 11:44 AM
even if its only danmged the tech is probly a little beond them so it probly take them a season or 2 to fix it

FallenAngelII
November 24th, 2006, 11:48 AM
even if its only danmged the tech is probly a little beond them so it probly take them a season or 2 to fix it
If they can fix them at all. We can't even reverse engineer shields.

lord-anubis
November 24th, 2006, 12:03 PM
well i know there going to have to fix it sometime. maybe they well find alien or some thing that well help them fix it or they could just say it wasten danmged as bad as they thought.

FallenAngelII
November 24th, 2006, 12:09 PM
well i know there going to have to fix it sometime. maybe they well find alien or some thing that well help them fix it or they could just say it wasten danmged as bad as they thought.
Why would they want to fix it? In order to fly the ship somewhere? Like where?

lord-anubis
November 24th, 2006, 12:14 PM
so they could move it if they warith ever found out it wasten destory. maybe move it to earth or some were safer. i can't think of any reason they wouldent want to fix it. makay well want to fix it im sure the miltary well want it fixed to

Ltcolshepjumper
November 24th, 2006, 12:27 PM
Even if they could fix the stardrive, even if they wanted to, its under water. How are they going to fix it if it's underwater? They would have to get loads of equipment from Earth. And they wouldn't necessarily want to fly the city, but possibly sink it if it was attacked by the wraith. the stardrive controls that too I think.

CalmStorm
November 24th, 2006, 01:14 PM
So...they have an underwater pj bay full of pjs. I really want to see some serious city exploring this back half of the season that shows other little treasures such as this.

So, do they have 3 full zpms now?? How long will it take for something to happen to them I wonder?

I wonder if there will be any reprecussions for Sheppard. Even though he "saved the day," that was a pretty big huge disobeying of orders. I'd love to see the first meeting between him and Landry after this incident.

Loved the rewind scene, nice and effective.

Caldwell looked irked as usuall...interesting enough I found it rather funny. Poor Caldwell, always the last to know.

Klenotka
November 24th, 2006, 01:27 PM
The ending seemed rushed and everything fell into place way too easily. No consequences at all for Shep just Weir asking if they could stay and Jack saying yes. If only things could be that simple.

At least she asked...in SG1, they never asked. There were never any consequences for SG1 or O´Neill to disobey. I think this is only fair. It would be stupid to punish Sheppard when SG1 did the same thing ten times before.

But I agree, the end was too fast. I expected something like "we are at home again" thing.

And poor little turtles :-)

prion
November 24th, 2006, 02:41 PM
Why would they want to fix it? In order to fly the ship somewhere? Like where?

Ah, silly question! To Bob's Big Boy for burgers! ;) Hey, you know if a BIG storm ever comes again, just fly up, wait it out, go back down.

CalmStorm
November 24th, 2006, 02:46 PM
Hey, you know if a BIG storm ever comes again, just fly up, wait it out, go back down.

Or just stay put and use the shield. Probably less of a power drain than something like a stardrive :)

prion
November 24th, 2006, 02:49 PM
I wonder if there will be any reprecussions for Sheppard. Even though he "saved the day," that was a pretty big huge disobeying of orders. I'd love to see the first meeting between him and Landry after this incident.

Shep will suffer the same repercussion as Jack has for all the disobeying stuff he's done (like kidnapping that girl, letting Odo splat on the iris, etc. etc.), in other words, zip, nada. I don't think the writers really know the meaning of the word ;)

CalmStorm
November 24th, 2006, 03:28 PM
Shep will suffer the same repercussion as Jack has for all the disobeying stuff he's done (like kidnapping that girl, letting Odo splat on the iris, etc. etc.), in other words, zip, nada. I don't think the writers really know the meaning of the word ;)

No one in the military really has made a big deal about O'Neill and his disobeying of orders. We have seen O'Neil disobey certain orders and we have seen him follow orders that he completely disagrees with. It's not really something that has been emphasized one way or another with O'Neill. It really doesn't seem that anyone on the SG teams are all that great at following every order, but no one is really looking down on them.

However, Sheppard disobeying orders has been heavily emphasized with SGA. They made a point of imprinting on everyone around that he had a black mark for disobeying orders. He was pretty much exiled to Antartica, and scorned upon by the military. In the beginning, the only one accepting of Sheppard was Weir and O'Neill. Sumner didn't want him on his team and Landry wanted him replaced. Although Caldwell seemed less hostile towards Sheppard initially, he didn't seem to condone his actions past or present. It might not be the disobeying of orders that he is being condemned for but his choice of which orders to disobey or the way he goes about disobeying them.

With O'Neill, you really never know which orders he is going to obey and which he will disobey. For the most part, he seems to obey much more often than disobey, even when he disagrees. With Sheppard, it seems a sure bet that if he disagrees, he will in all likelihood disobey. I wish they would stray away from this. I'd love to see an episode where he strongly disagrees with an order, but follows it, and by so doing, everything works out fine. Not going to happen, but would be a nice change.

prion
November 24th, 2006, 03:32 PM
No one in the military really has made a big deal about O'Neill and his disobeying of orders. We have seen O'Neil disobey certain orders and we have seen him follow orders that he completely disagrees with. It's not really something that has been emphasized one way or another with O'Neill. It really doesn't seem that anyone on the SG teams are all that great at following every order, but no one is really looking down on them.

However, Sheppard disobeying orders has been heavily emphasized with SGA. They made a point of imprinting on everyone around that he had a black mark for disobeying orders. He was pretty much exiled to Antartica, and scorned upon by the military. In the beginning, the only one accepting of Sheppard was Weir and O'Neill. Sumner didn't want him on his team and Landry wanted him replaced. Although Caldwell seemed less hostile towards Sheppard initially, he didn't seem to condone his actions past or present. It might not be the disobeying of orders that he is being condemned for but his choice of which orders to disobey or the way he goes about disobeying them.

With O'Neill, you really never know which orders he is going to obey and which he will disobey. For the most part, he seems to obey much more often than disobey, even when he disagrees. With Sheppard, it seems a sure bet that if he disagrees, he will in all likelihood disobey. I wish they would stray away from this. I'd love to see an episode where he strongly disagrees with an order, but follows it, and by so doing, everything works out fine. Not going to happen, but would be a nice change.

Good points. I woudln't mind seeing a nicely dramatic episode dealing with everything that Shep's done, but I don't think they'll ever do it. They barely touched on the black mark from Afghanistan. What I'd like is to see his father show up (does his father in the SciFi bio exist??) as he sounds like he'd be soooo disappointed in his son,a nd we could get some good family angst and look into what makes Shep tick.

FallenAngelII
November 24th, 2006, 10:53 PM
Shep will suffer the same repercussion as Jack has for all the disobeying stuff he's done (like kidnapping that girl, letting Odo splat on the iris, etc. etc.), in other words, zip, nada. I don't think the writers really know the meaning of the word ;)
Jack just told us to close the iris because the other side was blowing up. He'd told Odo not to follow them, so how was he to know he would?

Lt. Colonel Ryu Gaia
November 24th, 2006, 11:13 PM
Or did "The Return" Part 2 suck! Really, really badly! I just read through the transcript, and I can safely say, with or without having seen it, that it's terrible all around. There are a countless number of plot holes, and it spends more time blowing things up than actually showing our characters at their finest or even dealing with all the plot points that it should have!

Okay, so, minor quips:

> Why the hell do the Asurans talk? That's completely inefficient. If they want to send a message to another Asuran, they have a whole interlinked computer network for that. They're practically telepathic, they do not need to speak. Least of all, not to say what they're doing or what they're going to do. Or to plot evilly. They have no heirarchy aside from their command council it would seem; why are Cetus and Talus (or whatever their names were) walking about saying 'this is what we're going to do' all the time?

> The drones couldn't follow Shepphard's puddle jumper underwater, but we could send drones underwater underneath the ship to blow up the stardrive?

Major plot holes:

> Why did we need to blow Atlantis up so badly? "Oh no, there are Replicators there. And they intend to leave us alone because they probably don't care much that we're around for now because we're too primitive for them, but we want to poke them with a stick and set off an intergalactic war." Thus, this little poke-of-the-stick is Landry's decision to blow the whole damn thing to hell. You know, so that the whole planet full of cityships has a reason to attack us now.

> Why did we not get a suitable resolution to the Ancients return storyline? I mean, all that was mentioned was that they were probed and possibley killed. But of course, O'Neill and Woolsey have some sort of immunity to this killing thing because they're so integral to the plot. Because, you know, the Replicators obviously see some sort of use in them. Because they can't just repair the city's sensors to find Shepphard or calculate the most likely places that Shepphard would attack and block them off, or send guards, or something.

Meh, overall this episode was dissapointing. I'd give it a **. Maybe less.

Detox
November 24th, 2006, 11:26 PM
Or did "The Return" Part 2 suck! Really, really badly! I just read through the transcript, and I can safely say, with or without having seen it, that it's terrible all around. There are a countless number of plot holes, and it spends more time blowing things up than actually showing our characters at their finest or even dealing with all the plot points that it should have!

Okay, so, minor quips:

> Why the hell do the Asurans talk? That's completely inefficient. If they want to send a message to another Asuran, they have a whole interlinked computer network for that. They're practically telepathic, they do not need to speak. Least of all, not to say what they're doing or what they're going to do. Or to plot evilly. They have no heirarchy aside from their command council it would seem; why are Cetus and Talus (or whatever their names were) walking about saying 'this is what we're going to do' all the time?

> The drones couldn't follow Shepphard's puddle jumper underwater, but we could send drones underwater underneath the ship to blow up the stardrive?

Major plot holes:

> Why did we need to blow Atlantis up so badly? "Oh no, there are Replicators there. And they intend to leave us alone because they probably don't care much that we're around for now because we're too primitive for them, but we want to poke them with a stick and set off an intergalactic war." Thus, this little poke-of-the-stick is Landry's decision to blow the whole damn thing to hell. You know, so that the whole planet full of cityships has a reason to attack us now.

> Why did we not get a suitable resolution to the Ancients return storyline? I mean, all that was mentioned was that they were probed and possibley killed. But of course, O'Neill and Woolsey have some sort of immunity to this killing thing because they're so integral to the plot. Because, you know, the Replicators obviously see some sort of use in them. Because they can't just repair the city's sensors to find Shepphard or calculate the most likely places that Shepphard would attack and block them off, or send guards, or something.

Meh, overall this episode was dissapointing. I'd give it a **. Maybe less.

Or you could check the countless threads already made and find your answers there?

There's so much repeated questions and horrible whining here that I'm not even gonna bother answering it.

Pogo01
November 24th, 2006, 11:26 PM
I'm not saying it was the best episode but you should at least watch it not read the transcript before you say anything.

PG15
November 24th, 2006, 11:29 PM
Or did "The Return" Part 2 suck! Really, really badly! I just read through the transcript, and I can safely say, with or without having seen it, that it's terrible all around. There are a countless number of plot holes, and it spends more time blowing things up than actually showing our characters at their finest or even dealing with all the plot points that it should have!

You cannot safely say that! Watch the episode, and then come back to me. The plotholes (which I'll try to patch up) might still remain, but the character nuisances should provide a lot more entertainment than reading the transcript.


Okay, so, minor quips:

> Why the hell do the Asurans talk? That's completely inefficient. If they want to send a message to another Asuran, they have a whole interlinked computer network for that. They're practically telepathic, they do not need to speak. Least of all, not to say what they're doing or what they're going to do. Or to plot evilly. They have no heirarchy aside from their command council it would seem; why are Cetus and Talus (or whatever their names were) walking about saying 'this is what we're going to do' all the time?

As far as I can remember, the Asurans only update themselves at separate intervals and are not always in contact with each other (mentioned in Progeny, I think). Also, there is the practical side of the audience actually knowing what the heck is going on, instead of just having Asurans walking around in silence.

And I guess that's just the way the Asurans talk, they're machines, they talk very factually.


> The drones couldn't follow Shepphard's puddle jumper underwater, but we could send drones underwater underneath the ship to blow up the stardrive?

1. The controllers were different, one was a machine, one was human.

2. The sensors were damaged during the Shep's dive; they were fixed when Beckett used the drones.


Major plot holes:

> Why did we need to blow Atlantis up so badly? "Oh no, there are Replicators there. And they intend to leave us alone because they probably don't care much that we're around for now because we're too primitive for them, but we want to poke them with a stick and set off an intergalactic war." Thus, this little poke-of-the-stick is Landry's decision to blow the whole damn thing to hell. You know, so that the whole planet full of cityships has a reason to attack us now.

We blew up their cityship already, so the damage is done. Also, with McKay's macro, the Asurans will be able to access every planet with a stargate here in the MW. Even if the Asurans didn't want to touch us, wouldn't you be afraid if the guy living next to you was a convicted murderer?


> Why did we not get a suitable resolution to the Ancients return storyline? I mean, all that was mentioned was that they were probed and possibley killed. But of course, O'Neill and Woolsey have some sort of immunity to this killing thing because they're so integral to the plot. Because, you know, the Replicators obviously see some sort of use in them. Because they can't just repair the city's sensors to find Shepphard or calculate the most likely places that Shepphard would attack and block them off, or send guards, or something.

Hmm...2 humans versus hundreds of Ancient, which are more important?

Also, the place where O'Neill and Woolsey hid was damaged, so the life-signs detectors couldn't find them.


Meh, overall this episode was dissapointing. I'd give it a **. Maybe less.

I respect your opinion, but there's already an episode discussion thread here:

http://forum.gateworld.net/showthread.php?t=37741

Aussie_Fan
November 24th, 2006, 11:32 PM
If the Asurans didn't talk, we wouldn't know what they where planning!


:P

I also red the transcript and thought it sounded terrible but after watching it three times I've changed my mind. (Yes it took watching it three times to change my mind. There's hope for you yet!)

FallenAngelII
November 24th, 2006, 11:40 PM
Or did "The Return" Part 2 suck! Really, really badly! I just read through the transcript, and I can safely say, with or without having seen it, that it's terrible all around. There are a countless number of plot holes, and it spends more time blowing things up than actually showing our characters at their finest or even dealing with all the plot points that it should have!

Okay, so, minor quips:

> Why the hell do the Asurans talk? That's completely inefficient. If they want to send a message to another Asuran, they have a whole interlinked computer network for that. They're practically telepathic, they do not need to speak. Least of all, not to say what they're doing or what they're going to do. Or to plot evilly. They have no heirarchy aside from their command council it would seem; why are Cetus and Talus (or whatever their names were) walking about saying 'this is what we're going to do' all the time?

> The drones couldn't follow Shepphard's puddle jumper underwater, but we could send drones underwater underneath the ship to blow up the stardrive?

Major plot holes:

> Why did we need to blow Atlantis up so badly? "Oh no, there are Replicators there. And they intend to leave us alone because they probably don't care much that we're around for now because we're too primitive for them, but we want to poke them with a stick and set off an intergalactic war." Thus, this little poke-of-the-stick is Landry's decision to blow the whole damn thing to hell. You know, so that the whole planet full of cityships has a reason to attack us now.

> Why did we not get a suitable resolution to the Ancients return storyline? I mean, all that was mentioned was that they were probed and possibley killed. But of course, O'Neill and Woolsey have some sort of immunity to this killing thing because they're so integral to the plot. Because, you know, the Replicators obviously see some sort of use in them. Because they can't just repair the city's sensors to find Shepphard or calculate the most likely places that Shepphard would attack and block them off, or send guards, or something.

Meh, overall this episode was dissapointing. I'd give it a **. Maybe less.
1) They blew two things up, both scenes taking less than a minute... in total. They there was the "Run from the drones!"-scene where nothing actually blew up.
2) The Asurans mimick their creators to such a point they actually want to Ascend, yet they shouldn't talk? The human form Replicators also talked, by the way.
3) Thalus seems to be more in command than Cetus. He keeps telling Cetus to do stuff while Cetus just tells him of what they're doing. They're not using their telepathic network to speak. Of course they have to tell each other what they're doing/going to do.
4) Atlantis' sensors were damaged in the initial explosion. They hadn't repaired the city enough to be able to operate the drones underwater.

5) That's not a plot hole. They wanted to take out at least one or two Asurans in the blast if they could and they wanted to occupy them for time. They new the Asurans would rebuild the city. Besides, they didn't really care about the city at the time because they hadn't come up with a viable plan to take it back yet.
6) The Ancients were apparentely all killed as far as we know. There's your resolution. Jack and Woolsey just slipped away quietly while the Ancients did their best to defend the city.

Now go away.

female Wraith
November 24th, 2006, 11:43 PM
Hey:) The Return 2 doesn't suck. Believe me - all this is just in your imagination..Yes, there are plot holes but this is Sci Fi not a science journal:):) :)

Avenger
November 24th, 2006, 11:49 PM
The way people gripe about the show sometimes, it's like they're in just to look for plot holes and so on. And rating the episode before you;ve seen it is just absurd.

As to the "plot holes" metioned in the OP, they have all been explained very reasonably numerous times already.

If the rep system allowed it, FallenAngel would get some from me.

bluealien
November 25th, 2006, 01:56 AM
With O'Neill, you really never know which orders he is going to obey and which he will disobey. For the most part, he seems to obey much more often than disobey, even when he disagrees. With Sheppard, it seems a sure bet that if he disagrees, he will in all likelihood disobey. I wish they would stray away from this. I'd love to see an episode where he strongly disagrees with an order, but follows it, and by so doing, everything works out fine. Not going to happen, but would be a nice change.

Can't say I agree with this - I would say that Shep also obeys for the most part and he does not just disoby orders because he disagrees with them.

Jack has done his own thing just as much as Shep where orders are concerned. I guess it depends on the situation. The only time I can remember Shep disobying orders was in Hot Zone - and IMO he was right to disoby them because it was one of Weirs dreadfull decisions again.

The return part 2 was the only real major disobying of orders that John has done. He disobyed Landry who is a GENERAL, eventhough Landry came off a real jerk in this ep - there should have been some consequences for Shep here, or at least some mention as to why there where none!!

unknown.entity
November 25th, 2006, 03:37 AM
Shep will suffer the same repercussion as Jack has for all the disobeying stuff he's done (like kidnapping that girl, letting Odo splat on the iris, etc. etc.)Who or what is Odo?

CalmStorm
November 25th, 2006, 06:58 AM
Jack has done his own thing just as much as Shep where orders are concerned. I guess it depends on the situation. The only time I can remember Shep disobying orders was in Hot Zone - and IMO he was right to disoby them because it was one of Weirs dreadfull decisions again.

I guess I'll have to disagree on the hot zone incident. I don't feel that Weir's oders were dreadful. She was following protocol. Everyone stay put seems simple enough. However, since this is The Return Part 2 thead I'll just leave it at that instead of going into lengthy debate on his and her actions in Hot Zone.

TPTB have made a point to bring about Sheppard's disobeying of orders. They even managed to show some reprecussions as well with Weir talking to him about it at the end of Hot Zone. They even further showed the reprecussions when Landry and company wanted him replaced. They made a point to bring up that incident.

It's not that what he is doing may or may not be any different than Jack. It's that TPTB have made an issue out of it, unlike they have with Jack. Like I mentioned earlier, it's not necessarily disobeying orders in general, it's the ones he chooses to disobey and the manner in which he does it that seems to land him in much more hot water than Jack ever got in. For whatever reason.

bluealien
November 25th, 2006, 09:07 AM
I guess I'll have to disagree on the hot zone incident. I don't feel that Weir's oders were dreadful. She was following protocol. Everyone stay put seems simple enough. However, since this is The Return Part 2 thead I'll just leave it at that instead of going into lengthy debate on his and her actions in Hot Zone.

No lenghtly discussion - but I thought it should been a joint effort from the start. No way was Sheppard going to accept staying in his room when there was a serious threat to Altantis - I just thought that Weir would know John better than that and I guess John wasn't really all that trusting of Weir's abliltiy to handle the situation - and maybe he was right as he did save the day in the end.


TPTB have made a point to bring about Sheppard's disobeying of orders. They even managed to show some reprecussions as well with Weir talking to him about it at the end of Hot Zone. They even further showed the reprecussions when Landry and company wanted him replaced. They made a point to bring up that incident.

Yes, they did make a big issue of it but again aside from Hot Zone I cannot think of any incident where he continued to disobey orders.


It's not that what he is doing may or may not be any different than Jack. It's that TPTB have made an issue out of it, unlike they have with Jack. Like I mentioned earlier, it's not necessarily disobeying orders in general, it's the ones he chooses to disobey and the manner in which he does it that seems to land him in much more hot water than Jack ever got in. For whatever reason.


Elizabeth did also make this point to Jack in rising about HIS disobeying of orders. I just don't see why it should make any difference, or why it should be more of an issue with John because TPTB hightlighted that aspect of his character. So we are told that John tends to disobey orders but again excpet for Hot Zone we never really see this come into play much until the Return. But the point I was trying to make that even if both men tended to disoby orders - John disobeying Landry seemed to have zero consequences and wasn't even mentioned. I guess saving Jack, Woolsey and Atlantis was enough but it would have been nice it the subject had at least been raised.

CalmStorm
November 25th, 2006, 09:35 AM
Yes, they did make a big issue of it but again aside from Hot Zone I cannot think of any incident where he continued to disobey orders.


For the most part, Shep and Weir see eye to eye on things. So there really isn't much disobeying of orders as they tend to agree. Weir, for the most part tends to defer to Sheppard on military issues. She trusts him, has shown trust in him. However, we have been shown that the military on the other hand does not particularly care for his actions for whatever reasons. I wouldn't say that his choices are wrong, or that another character in that position would do the same thing. I would say that his capacity for disobeying orders was established in the first episode, highlighted in Hot Zone, and then brought to the front again with this episode. He doesn't have to disobey every order, and not every episode will highlight this characteristic, but it is a characteristic that TPTB are sticking to and when Sheppard does disobey an order, he tends to disobey it in a big way.

In the end, it is a risk he is taking. He will always do what he feels is right. That is in this character's nature and kudos to TPTB for remaining consistent on that. Like Jack said, if he fails he's fired. Since he is the lead and the hero, we know he will not fail.

The frequency with which he disobeys or follows orders does not negate that his few disobeys has been presented as an issue with the military in this program.

Mitchell82
November 25th, 2006, 09:40 AM
Three drones. Big explosion. Shook the city.

Yeah likely the Stardrive is history. Mabey it's mendable though.

rosstaylor
November 25th, 2006, 11:18 AM
personally i felt the script was pretty poor, and the con flash back has been done so many times in all tv genres, however the episodes looked really good and that made up for some of the poor script, though jack and woolsey were good, ronon and weir omg, the teyla gun scene cringe, mckay usual brilliance and shephard looked a bit pathetic

scarimor
November 25th, 2006, 12:53 PM
Yeah likely the Stardrive is history. Mabey it's mendable though.
So, really, the writers left that question open, which was a wise decision :) Maybe it will be mentioned briefly in the next episode.

theonebluegecko
November 25th, 2006, 02:38 PM
Yes, it would have been just great to have the Asurans not talk, that would have made the episode so exciting. Maybe we should have an episode of just Asurans with no talking nothing. They should just sit there for an hour, yeah that would be fun.

Really, do not bother to complain until you watch the episode, the transcripts are never as good as the episode itself.

Petra
November 25th, 2006, 04:18 PM
If Jack had thought about it, he could have easily tied the deadman switch back and not have had to hold it. He still had his belt, right? Even his boots probably would have done the trick. Ah, plot device - hero must hold breath and save the day ;)

hey, I was watching this ep earlier today with some friends (all SG fans) and they were yelling the same thing, lol! I agree, but it was still fun to watch. :)

Anyway, it was a brilliant ep, the best so far in the 3rd season and one of the best in general. As a great Jack fan I was pleasantly surprised and VERY HAPPY about his amount of screen time, although I can understand some Atlantis fans not liking it. Just one thing bothered me: when Jack threatened Sheppard with firing him, he was being a hipocryte!!!
Usually I can't stand Woolsey, but he was great here.
I agree that Weir and Jack have chemistry ( not romantic though) and I'd like to see their friendship developing...

Also, I'm a Jack/Sam shipper and I didn't find this ep in the slightest shippy. So, not all shippers faint when Jack mentions Carter. ;D

The Ori
November 25th, 2006, 04:18 PM
To be honest with you I expect Stargate nowadays to be like that, so because my expectation is like that I enjoy the show, its light hearted and funny. But I would love to see it get really dark like Battlestar Galactica!!

CalmStorm
November 25th, 2006, 04:48 PM
Just one thing bothered me: when Jack threatened Sheppard with firing him, he was being a hipocryte!!!

I didn't think of it as hypocritical. Truth is, Jack probably understands the risk Sheppard took better than anyone. Everytime Jack disobeyed a direct order, he did so with the knowledge that if his risk didn't pay-off and he was unsuccessful, he would have been fired. Same situation for Sheppard. I think Sheppard understands the risk he is taking by disobeying orders. Even Sheppard would have to know that if this mission did not have a successful result he would have been fired...or more than likely, court martialed. Anytime either one of them disobeys a direct order, their jobs are on the line. Jack was just reminding him :P

They both put their commanding officers in a difficult position. In this situation though, it is Jack who is being placed in that position of having to come down on the unruly one. I doubt he appreciates the irony in the situation ...but then again it's Jack so maybe he can appreciate the irony :)

DelTrax1
November 25th, 2006, 05:44 PM
So I'm wondering if this means that they have all the power atlantis needs with zpms

Quest_techie
November 25th, 2006, 06:41 PM
they talk to emulate ancients

note,that whole big freakin city they built, just like the ancient one, they're in an inefficient form, they live in an inefficient place, it's the whole

"I HATE YOU DADDY"

"daddy, did I done good?"

Short Angel
November 25th, 2006, 08:18 PM
while they got the city back, the tower's all spiffed up again, don't they have, like, um, some bad damage underneath if said drones took out the stardrive??

Well the Asurans (I apologise if that is spelled wrong) probably fixed it while the team was being placed in the holding cells. We don't know how much time passed and they seemed to have fixed the control tower quickly.

ladysarah
November 26th, 2006, 01:19 AM
And I want to know, where were all the female replicants?

Anonmatel
November 26th, 2006, 03:30 AM
so, did they or didn't they blow up the midway space station ?? they spoke of it but never confirmed it...
Even if they did it would only be the two gates midway and the structure around it. They could fix it no problem if they want to.

Alipeeps
November 26th, 2006, 03:53 AM
And I want to know, where were all the female replicants?

Well firstly any replicants at all are either in space somwhere or on Earth being hunted down by Decker and his colleagues.. :D Sorry.. couldn't resist..

The femal replicators are presumably back on Asura - I guess, advanced or not, the Asurans are quite old-fashioned in some ways and only send boys out on their war parties... :D

Alipeeps
November 26th, 2006, 03:54 AM
so, did they or didn't they blow up the midway space station ?? they spoke of it but never confirmed it...
Even if they did it would only be the two gates midway and the structure around it. They could fix it no problem if they want to.

They spoke about getting a warhead ready "to keep their options open" but there is no mention of them actually having sent the warhead and blown up the midway station.

xfkirsten
November 26th, 2006, 09:41 AM
The femal replicators are presumably back on Asura - I guess, advanced or not, the Asurans are quite old-fashioned in some ways and only send boys out on their war parties... :D

Or maybe the females are just smart and have figured out they can make the men do all the hard work. ;)

expendable_crewman
November 26th, 2006, 10:01 AM
For the most part, Shep and Weir see eye to eye on things. So there really isn't much disobeying of orders as they tend to agree. Weir, for the most part tends to defer to Sheppard on military issues. She trusts him, has shown trust in him. However, we have been shown that the military on the other hand does not particularly care for his actions for whatever reasons. I wouldn't say that his choices are wrong, or that another character in that position would do the same thing. I would say that his capacity for disobeying orders was established in the first episode, highlighted in Hot Zone, and then brought to the front again with this episode. He doesn't have to disobey every order, and not every episode will highlight this characteristic, but it is a characteristic that TPTB are sticking to and when Sheppard does disobey an order, he tends to disobey it in a big way.

In the end, it is a risk he is taking. He will always do what he feels is right. That is in this character's nature and kudos to TPTB for remaining consistent on that. Like Jack said, if he fails he's fired. Since he is the lead and the hero, we know he will not fail.

The frequency with which he disobeys or follows orders does not negate that his few disobeys has been presented as an issue with the military in this program.You've obviously thought this through. After reading your discussion on this, I'm going to have to agree with you.

I like many of the elements of the Sheppard character, even the so-called black mark and the history it came with. Those elements played into the kind of military figure Atlantis (the show) needed. The alternative, as has been pointed out, was a Sumner-like leader.

Not a fit.

Now we're here with this bulldozer of a choice that, because it was so deeply woven into (what little we know of) this chracter's history by the PTBs, we can't help but catch our breaths and say, "Uh-oh."

I agree here, too: unlike O'Neill's choices, Sheppard's choices were under a microscope within the first twenty minutes of the series and they have stayed there, they won't go away ... thanks to the show's writers in episodes like ...
* Hot Zone
* Seige 2: ignores Chambers' order to call the personnel back from the Alpha site and brings Weir into the conference room
* Intruder : we the viewers are treated to a high-level discussion at SGC about Sheppard's choices
* Runner: we get to see Sheppard and Caldwell chafe over what is and isn't proper military protocol in handling Ford, ostensibly because Caldwell feels Sheppard won't do his job in favor of personal feelings

* Phantoms : as a partial retelling of Sheppard's history, with Sheppard even mentioning his (upcoming) court-martial
* And then we have Return Part I

I guess at this point, if we the viewers are supposed to accept that there will be no repercussions, nada, at least going forward, the writers should maybe back off underscoring the trait. The consequence of Hot Zone was Sheppard was almost removed not only from command, but from the expedition. This was in Intruder, which if you think about it was the first episode that could deal with his Hot Zone choice, as Atlantis was cut off from SGC all of season one. In that scene, Caldwell, Sheppard's almost-replacement, said he didn't want Sheppard serving under him.

I'd rather see something come of this latest whopper of a choice, something more realistic than O'Neill going on while in the field and under the gun about firing Sheppard, if for no other reason than because it follows what SGA has given us in the past.

MB.Eddie
November 27th, 2006, 09:32 AM
Great ep. Loved it :)

So many great Jack moments, and the whole plan A,B,C,D-F thing was great. A very enjoyable Atlantis ep :cool:

ToasterOnFire
November 27th, 2006, 12:55 PM
And I want to know, where were all the female replicants?
Hanging out with all those female Priors, natch. :D

dubya83
November 28th, 2006, 04:14 PM
While the writers for both SG-1 and Atlantis have had to resolve enormous dilemmas in less than an hour in previous two-parters, the overall writing for Return Part II seemed a bit below par.

I expected so much from Part II because, in all honesty, Part I was amazing.

The ultimate resolution wasn't all bad, albeit Star Trek-esque as someone pointed out in earlier posts. Rodney McKay certainly knows how to do just about everything when under pressure. But shouldn't the Asurans have noticed the unusual blue crystals while removing the C-4? Similarly, when they captured Sheppard and Co., wouldn't one of them have grabbed one of the "ARGs" to figure out the frequency (granted there wasn't much time).

I found it odd though how the episode started off so incredibly slowly (except for the surprising act of blowing up the control room -- very cool despite the quick fix). I am glad they made use of RDA, but it seemed tired when they sent him underwater over and over -- it seemed like a waste of time that could have been better used to slow down the hyper-fast resolution in the end. I did like that the end was a twist for the audience along with the Asurans since the misinformation was the key.

Another thing: the Asurans (which we seem to have stopped calling them that) from Progeny were such better actors; the two with speaking roles in this episode sort of sucked; they came off as far less menacing then someone like Oberoth or Fifth from SG-1.

I might be wrong, but do the puddle jumpers even have shields? a recent upgrade perhaps?

While Martin Gero has written great episodes previously (including Return Part I), I don't believe he has ever written for O'Neill prior to Return. I loved having RDA there, and he did a great job, but something seemed missing and some of the one-liners didn't sound right somehow (except for the Plan F gag).

I hope Atlantis gets to keep at least 1 of the ZPMs, if not all 3. It is indeed ambiguous at the end, and perhaps McKay's replicator wave drained some of them. On the whole, it would be quite disappointing if after all that happened in this two-parter, everything simply returns to the status quo (no ZPMs). Let's hope they get to keep the Ancient warship, but maybe the Asurans cannibalized that too. The Orion didn't last too long this season either, probably quite intentionally.

Lastly (and yes, I know this post is stupidly long), it was disappointing to bring in some real Ancients as they existed all those years ago only to kill them all with little more than a passing reference. It's believable given the Asuran's hatred for them and their own overconfidence during the impending attack, but still, it makes all the events of the past two episodes fairly worthless if we hadn't had the chance to learn something (aside from that control thing that wisps out of the floor).

I like it when the shows' villains crossover, such as having the Goa'uld in Critical Mass last season, but it shouldn't become such a huge part of the Atlantis mythology. Atlantis is the new, and soon to be only, series after all. Hopefully, the Asuran threat will be taken care of early in Season 4 given that the upcoming finale seems to involve them.

Too much? :tealc:

unknown.entity
November 28th, 2006, 05:00 PM
I might be wrong, but do the puddle jumpers even have shields? a recent upgrade perhaps?I assume they switched the Puddle Jumper's cloak to a shield just like they did in "Grace Under Pressure (http://www.gateworld.net/atlantis/s2/214.shtml)".

CalmStorm
November 28th, 2006, 05:24 PM
I assume they switched the Puddle Jumper's cloak to a shield just like they did in "Grace Under Pressure (http://www.gateworld.net/atlantis/s2/214.shtml)".

I wonder if they'll ever figure out how to have both together?? Wouldn't it be nice to have both shields and cloak active at the same time instead of one or the other?