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Madeleine
October 21st, 2006, 11:24 PM
This thread is exactly what it says on the tin. :D

The Signal
October 22nd, 2006, 01:51 PM
I'm going to reserve judgement until after "Day One", I wasnt hugely impressed, some people were afraid that they might have pushed the bar, and theres already signs that they might have done that (I mean realism is one thing, but theres only so many f***'s you can include in a script before it gets to the :rolleyes: stage. Writing was moderate, some bits were great, Jack asking the murder victim what he saw for instance, while other bits werent quite so good, such as the bar scene, which wasnt overly convincing.

Great to see Jack again, and to learn a little about Torchwood. So theres 4, with London gone (not only good to have it mentioned, but we now know the time frame of the series, and that Jack knows what the Cybermen were), another missing, and I didnt hear what Jack said about Torchwood 3 (or was it 2?), maybe some sort of foreshadowing of a future story, either in this or Doctor Who?

Acting varied, Toshiko was good, Owen wasn't bad, not much on Ianto, Jack was great, Gwen was the weak link, I felt. Special mention has to go to Susie, and I didnt bloody see that coming! Russell T. Davies is fantastic at keeping secrets!

Jack's immortality, I would guess is a side effect of being ressurected by the heart of the TARDIS, so I guess he has some sort of connection to it? Should be interesting when he meets the Doctor again, though it takes away a little of the danger from the series, if you know the lead is gonna be fine no matter what.

Another thing, something about "globe research" anything to do with the Globe Theate Spoilers for Doctor Who the upcoming shakespeare ep? Is Jack looking for the Doctor?

Little details are always good, The Doctor's hand in a jar for instance, and the mentioning of a "transdimensional Chamelion Circuit.

Overall, it'd only be about a 7/10, but like I said, not a final judgement just yet, and it was a 6 until the Susie bit, so that might be the better one to go by...

6/10

Blitz
October 22nd, 2006, 02:08 PM
Well, from clips I saw... (Tv downstairs, Me upstairs) it seemed ok

I like the pteradctyl :D Some of the acting seemed forced at times, but the first ep is always a bit...rocky :) i like so far :)

Reefgirl
October 22nd, 2006, 02:18 PM
I only watched the first one, what a disappointment

No mention of how Jack got back to Earth,

The set came from DS9 (The wheely door thing)

And Purlease the instant sexual attraction spray, gimme a break.

The whole thing felt like it was written by a gang of teenage boys who'd seen too much Buffy.

I was really diappointed, not even the prospect of drooling over Capt Jack can make me watch next week

The Signal
October 22nd, 2006, 02:20 PM
No mention of how Jack got back to Earth

They did say that they wouldnt explain it as early as last year when the show was first announced.

pbellosom
October 22nd, 2006, 02:45 PM
Well I liked it, though what was up with the pterodactyl?

I liked the bit with the Doctor's hand, but I can't help wondering what Jack thinks he can do with it.

The Signal
October 22nd, 2006, 02:49 PM
"Day One" - Not great, they pushed the bar again and its getting tired already, the "came ad went" and "feeling a bit of a..." lines were truely cringeworthy, we get it, your post watershed! :rolleyes:

Other than that, some decent character moments for Gwen and Jack, Owen may just be comic relief in all this, Toshiko didnt really do much, and why is Ianto even there, do we need a regular receptionist?

Jack's obsession over the Doctor's hand, and the secrecy about his past along with his prevention of Gwen getting too attatched makes for an interesting contrast.

Finally, if RTD makes Gwen and Jack into a ship I may scream! Jack's not the sort of guy to get tied down with any one person, tied up with several people maybe.... (sorry, couldnt help that :P)

Overall, despite decent acting and core story, the pushing of the watershed bar, and the tongue in cheek gags sets this back to another

6/10

pbellosom
October 22nd, 2006, 02:56 PM
5 Jack's not the sort of guy to get tied down with any one person, tied up with several people maybe.... (sorry, couldnt help that :P)


And yet you mock the came and went line

Billz
October 22nd, 2006, 02:58 PM
Well I liked it, though what was up with the pterodactyl?

I liked the bit with the Doctor's hand, but I can't help wondering what Jack thinks he can do with it.

Obviously the pterodactyl came hrough the Rift in Cardiff by mistake. Its a Rift in space and time, no-one ever said it was locked on a specific time period. It must have shifted to the dinosaur years at one point while the pterodactyl was flying.

Im guessing Jack thinks that if he keeps hold of The Doctors hand that he will eventually come back for it. He obviously never knew that The Doctor could regenerate body parts during his regeneration cycle.

Im also going to use the Rift as an excuse as to how Jack wound up back in 21st century Cardiff.

Overall, both off tonights episodes get an 8/10 from me. Did anyone else think that the army sqruadron investigating the meteor site might have been U.N.I.T? Im wondering because they didnt seem surprised when Torchwood showed up.

Reefgirl
October 22nd, 2006, 03:13 PM
And yet you mock the came and went line
I heard Boy George use it once to discribe Culture Club's drummer Jon Something, bitter or what

Flyboy
October 22nd, 2006, 04:09 PM
Overall, both off tonights episodes get an 8/10 from me. Did anyone else think that the army sqruadron investigating the meteor site might have been U.N.I.T? Im wondering because they didnt seem surprised when Torchwood showed up.

YES! I was PRAYING that they were UNIT. I for one am very fond of the old UNIT guys and I can get that torchwood are more important, but I at least want to see a UNIT presence, and that would have been perfect. However, judging by beret and cap badge (which I DIDNT get a good look at, damn it...) I'm GUESSING that they're Royal Corps of Signals... But hey.

I'm liking the darker side to things. The F*** in the first five minutes made me role my eyes. It seemed like it was there to be noticed.
Love seeing the police deal with things, love seeing the fact that people DO die and the consequences of that. The two eps today kept making me shout and or gasp. Bloody unusual for TV to make me do that.

As for "Day One" not impressed by the whole sex alien thing being done THIS early on in the series, but I can overlook that due to superb writing. RTD would have made it an object of pure lust, an ep that simply got people going. But the guy who wrote this, made me at least, shocked, horrified and feeling REALLY sorry for the poor girl. Great drama. In my eyes.

Alipeeps
October 22nd, 2006, 05:11 PM
Honestly? I wasn't impressed. Hubby and I kept looking at each other and saying, "This is a bit crap, isn't it?" It definitely felt like it was trying too hard - practically screaming "Hey look, we're the Dr Who universe but we're darker/sexier/more dangerous! Look, we have people shagging in toilets, real swearwords and lesbian snogging!"
It was all just a wee bit "Oh puh-lease!" :S

A lot of the acting was not great and the storylines didn't really pull me in, The humour seemed forced and all in all... it was just *meh*.

Oh and did anyone else notice the glaring plothole? If every sodding police officer (including Gwen's ex-partner) seems to know to let any old stranger wander onto a crime scene as long as they say the magic word "Torchwood", how come Gwen had never heard of Torchwood?!!

ShadowMaat
October 22nd, 2006, 08:26 PM
Wow, and here I was being all hyped up and impressed and severely annoyed that I didn't realize there were TWO eps and will have to wait that much longer to see ep 2. *shrug*

I think it was a lot better than Rose was, although I haven't really had time to sit down and think out the problems. There's a high degree of silliness to it all, but I'm used to that from Doctor Who and wouldn't expect anything less of Torchwood.

As for Jack being immortal, I LOVE that twist (although shouldn't the cameras have caught that whole scene?) and I don't see how it detracts from any sense of danger. Most shows naturally protect the leads from death, anyway (and in much more convoluted and varying ways). At least with Torchwood it's up front and seems (to me) to be a believeable reason.

Besides, I don't recall anyone saying, "Oh, what a ripoff! If the Doctor dies, he'll just regenerate!" :P Same kinda "get out of death free" card working here, only with a different set of rules. *shrug*

I love the show so far. I hope it thrives and lasts a few seasons, at least. Captain Jack on his own show. Fantastic! :D

Lida
October 22nd, 2006, 11:17 PM
Torchwood premiered? Gee, guess I missed it.....I'll have to try and catch it. Always looking for good TV.......;)

Billz
October 23rd, 2006, 12:19 AM
Torchwood premiered? Gee, guess I missed it.....I'll have to try and catch it. Always looking for good TV.......;)

It gets repeated on BBC2 on Wednesday at 9pm. There have obviously been alot of mixed feelings so far so it would be cool to hear your feedback after you watch it.

Alipeeps
October 23rd, 2006, 01:33 AM
It gets repeated on BBC2 on Wednesday at 9pm. There have obviously been alot of mixed feelings so far so it would be cool to hear your feedback after you watch it.

Wednesday at 9pm! But that clashes with new Season 3 Atlantis on Sky 1! :lol:

Darkstar
October 23rd, 2006, 02:19 AM
Episode One Was ok, the whole acting and swearing actually came as a bit of a shock after setling in to watch then realising such words begining with "T" and that's not torchwood, i almost forgot it was adult TV, the acting was a little better than Dr Who and therefore the realism i guess was there as a result, it was over the top to make a series thats more sexy, violent, a rugged than before, I'm still not covinced yet, but you know what happens to many shows like that, they sometimes end up as hit shows.......and some flop horribly.
I'll post about episode two later :D

Mr Prophet
October 23rd, 2006, 03:25 AM
Taken together, I found lots of things to like in the first two episodes of Torchwood, and if it did seem as though they were just doing a few things because they could, well hopefully they've got that out of their system after Day One, which came a little close to the point of farce.

I liked the Welshness; I liked the humour (mostly); and I liked the fact that most of Torchwood are scum. I liked Ianto a lot (Would you be wanting me to do any attacking, sir?).

Honestly, I barely noticed the swearing. It's nothing you wouldn't hear if you stood behind a perception filter on the playground of a middle school (or in some staffrooms).

Hmm. Someone asked about Jack's revivification appearing on the cameras, but I noticed that the base of the monument doesn't seem to show up on the screens. It would be easier to assume that she missed or something.

Willow'sCat
October 23rd, 2006, 03:43 AM
I've only watched the first ep as I have to wait and wait for the second one. :(

I LOVED this!

As a first ep it was so much better then I expected, I was thinking it would be nothing but explanation and well sure it was but it also had a little twist in the tail, not just one but two. (Oh he wants to see a Doctor ;) )

Jack IS back! John was great, I could never buy Jack as distant or a loner, not really, so I am glad they are going with him needing to have people around him, people he can trust. Also he plays so well with others, all kinds of others. :)

Gwen, was a surprise, I like her, I don't normally like the females in these things, they all seem so unrealistic but Gwen seems to be normal. I didn't know how much I liked the Welsh accent until she started talking...love it!

Random things:
The mentioning of the Chameleon circuit! (TARDIS WAS HERE!) :D
MPreg! *sorry but I loved that* :P
The drug fest... I didn't like either of them. Not Jack's little cocktail for Gwen and definitely not the other in the little spray bottle... Oh sure it is all fun and games till someone gets hurt. :cool:
The swearing! Well I have to ask what swearing? This is what *some* people were getting their knickers in a knot over? :S *shrugs*
The only thing I was upset about was the BIG watermark logo on the middle of Jack's head every time they did a close up! What is wrong with BBC3! That has to go. Why spend all this money on HD then do that!

Overall, I seriously did love this. I was not disappointed, I was actually more disappointed by "Rose" when it screened. Maybe I expected more form Doctor Who; I don't know, but I really loved this as an opener, as an introduction episode. We do get some intel on the rift, they do at least pay lip service to Army of Ghosts/Doomsday and they kind of mention Torchwood's other selves (Torchwood 4????).

I don't rate these things but well, much better then I expected.

Fave line: "I show you something fantastic, you find fault!" ;)

.... still waiting for the next eppy. :(

chanvw
October 23rd, 2006, 04:16 AM
I loved the first episode - it was all I was expecting from the show and more. However, the second one was a bit more of a let down. I think some of the sex could have been toned down a bit and the effect would still have been the same (or even greater due to "implication effect"). Anyways, I'll have to watch next week's episode to make up my mind.

Albion
October 23rd, 2006, 04:21 AM
Well, on the whole I did enjoy these two, but I'm hoping that things improve a little in some respects in the coming weeks.

What I liked:

The plots on both eps were entertaining - though hardly original. EC was basically MIB with the names changed and, for that reason, I did groan when we got to the amnesia pill. And how many times have we seen the 'horny alien rampages through Earth on a sexual binge' plot? But I enjoyed them all the same and didn't hold that against them.

*Loved* the new characters. All but Owen, who so far leaves me cold. But he may grow on me.

Also deeply intrigued by this severed hand that Jack seems so desperately fond of. <g>

Cardiff looked enchanting as ever and it was a nice change to hear those Welsh accents. But do we have to have so many shots of the Millenium Center? Please, enough already. I'll accept that it's a stunning building, but Cardiff surely has more to offer than just that. Some variety in the locations would be nice.

Oh and nice little tingle of ship between Gwen and Jack. Looking forward to seeing where that heads.

What I didn't like:

Well, I did feel that RTD was trying way too hard to let us know this was an 'adult' show. The cussing, the off colour jokes, the lesbian makeout, gay kiss and the blatant and heavy-handed sexual themes and imagery in DO all just seemed forced to me. Don't get me wrong - such things neither offend nor bother me, usually. But I do like to get the impression they are there for a reason. I never felt that any of these elements advanced the plots or told us anything about the characters. I just had this image of RTD gleefully rubbing his hands and anticipating the free publicity and the tabloid headlines: "Dr Who Spinoff Lesbo Snog Shocks Granny In Brighton!". Shock! Horror! Well...no. Just irritation and boredom from this viewer. So I'm hoping to see less of this stuff in forthcoming eps.

To be honest, it smacked of the recent trend - mostly in US shows - of trying to cram in as much steam and controversial material into your premiere eps as you can get, in an attempt to snag that teen male demo. Which just annoy me generally, anyway.

But, on the whole, these were fun and I'm looking forward to next week. I never expect too much from pilot eps, given how much time they have to spend on introducing us to new characters, locations, situations etc.

BTW...I may have missed something and am going to have to watch again to listen more carefully, but Suzie's conversation with Gwen and her death confused me entirely. I have no idea what she was up to, who she was working for or what her motives were. I garner that she had betrayed Torchwood in some sense and was now fleeing for her life before the rest of the team found out. Okay. Get that. So..um...why then did she pause in her fleeing to engage Gwen and tell her all of this? What did she gain by that? What was her purpose? It made no sense to me if she was intending to vanish into the night and never be heard of again. And to do it right out in the open, in front of the Torchwood building - which she *knew* was surveilled at all times and that they could be seen by the team....well, it made no logical sense to me at all. But, maybe, all will become clear on a second viewing. Who knows?

ETA: Okay, now I've read the rest of the comments:


I liked Ianto a lot (Would you be wanting me to do any attacking, sir?).

That was my favourite line, I think, and the moment I fell in love with Ianto. <g> I think it also gives an indication that he's a lot more than just a receptionist.

And, I see that I've missed something along the way (in Dr. Who?). As everyone seems to know that the severed hand belongs to the Doctor. When did this happen? I need details, people! ;)

Albion :)

Othere
October 23rd, 2006, 04:41 AM
I'm going to reserve judgement until after "Day One", I wasnt hugely impressed...

Can't say I was overly impressed either, I thought they crossed the line a couple of times, but thats just me. Maybe it was because I spent the first 15 minutes of it locked outside the house, but I dont think seeing the very beginning would have made that much of a difference. There were moments when I was like 'get on with it' and I wasn't overly keen on the second ep. I thought filming in a girls toilet (as in CCTV) was illegal!
Just thought it was all a bit naff, but then i was very tired and cold from a long day at work so maybe the next episode will come across better. Will reserve judgment until then.

Elinor
October 23rd, 2006, 05:06 AM
Just thought it was all a bit naff

Darn...that was the word I was going to use, but you got there first!!:D

I think this show is trying much too hard to be super-cool, sexy and 'X-filesy'. Obviously they're making the point that this show is for 'grown-ups', what with the swearing, sex and gory bits! Trouble is, I don't feel it was done very well and came across as...well...naff!! Dr Who does have a certain charm to it that keeps me watching....I didn't get that feeling with Torchwood I'm afraid.

http://www.websmileys.com/sm/aliens/abduct.gif

Reefgirl
October 23rd, 2006, 05:15 AM
Oh and nice little tingle of ship between Gwen and Jack. Looking forward to seeing where that heads.

Oh God I hope not. If RTD 'ship's Gwen and Jack to appease the American audience then he needs a smacking, it will NEVER work Jack's too used to bed hopping, now a threesome with Gwen and her boyfriend I can see him doing, that would shock the Granny's in Brighton

BC - 303
October 23rd, 2006, 05:25 AM
Im looking forward to next week, when its halfway through THEN i will judge what ive seen so far.
Im expecaily looking forward to "CyberWoman" which is Ep. 4

Willow'sCat
October 23rd, 2006, 05:25 AM
Second eppy.

I liked it, not in love with it...

The plot was pretty threadbare, and although I actually laughed at the masturbation scene I think maybe they could have not gone there at all... I don't know sometimes less is more. ;) They may just still be trying to prove a point, a silly useless point....

I didn't connect with the female victim, that was a pity as I think it may have been more powerful if I could have related to her more, but these shows rarely have that kind of time anyway.

Was it just me or was that hand so The Doctors! Jack cradling The Hand! Aw... ;) :cameronanime12: and Eew! :S LOL! What is Jack thinking keeping that * thing*

Jack seemed a little off in this episode, not sure if it is because they want to make him different from how he was in Doctor Who or whether it was just bad scripting, also John needs to learn how to hold a gun, I wasn't buying it, hopefully he gets better in those scenes as time goes on. :cool:

Overall, a good episode but not as good as the opener there is some room for improvement. ;)

Oh and can someone please slap Owen! NOW! :rolleyes:

Chaka's_Mum
October 23rd, 2006, 05:49 AM
Cardiff looked enchanting as ever and it was a nice change to hear those Welsh accents. But do we have to have so many shots of the Millenium Center? Please, enough already. I'll accept that it's a stunning building, but Cardiff surely has more to offer than just that. Some variety in the locations would be nice.

They showed an arty aerial view of my Office Building! I'm still not sure whether I'm happy about being reminded that I had to get up and go to work in the morning...

With a bit of luck, now we've established where Torchwood is and all that stuff, locations might go a bit wider. Certainly there were plenty of night-shots in the city centre, though daytime ones had to be in less busy areas. I can see the 'hospital car park' where Gwen vroomed off in the cop car from my office window, for example. Oh, how sad I am...

Right. Name dropping over.

I thought it was OK in parts - a bit of a curate's egg. Needless to say it was hampered by the need to introduce the characters and set the scene; so hopefully things will get going more up to speed next week. Certainly Russell T was determined to set the 'this is not a kiddie prog' tone from the outset - lots of gratuitous effing and blinding, buckets of blood and a bit of rumpy pumpy in a club toilet (oh look - irresistible pheromones again!), not to mention that randy bouncer; don't you know you'll go blind, mate?;) It had its fair share of naffness, which comes from trying to establish the plot from scratch, I guess. Nice that they kept references to the Doctor largely in the background with only a few references where necessary. Maybe not something to write home about - but enough to make me go back and have another look next week.

Fascinating that Jack can't die. He seems to have become a kind of Whovian equivalent of Wowbagger the Infinitely Prolonged. No wonder he's so attached to a disembodied hand - which is indeed the Doctor's. It's the one that got chopped off last Christmas.

By the way, Russell T. No ship. None. At All. Don't even go there.

And Owen? Grow up, you plonker. Alien 'make me attractive' spray? Come on!

Matt G
October 23rd, 2006, 06:19 AM
Oh come on...yeah I know the 'make me attractive' spray isn't exactly original(who remembers Red Dwarf's sexual magnetism virus) but I can't think of any single guy that wouldn't have been grinning...what made me give Owen the thumbs down was his using it to rip couples apart!

In the meantime...decent start though it leaves a ton of unanswered questions.

1. I'm not sure whether to be annoyed at the writers assuming that no viewer's had dealings with Jack before or not. I suppose there are some that wouldn't touch regular Who with a bargepole though and the idea could certainly operate in it's own universe.

2. Gwen, you're dealing with a guy who is clearly familiar with alien/advanced tech, certainly acts like "21st century Earth" isn't home and the only previous reference you've been able to find for him is from 1941 when he clearly isn't that old! Why can't you work out that he's a time traveller?

3. On the other hand I did like that Gwen had found her niche as Jane Average.

4. Liked the subtle references to the Doctor.

5. Didn't like the fact that I only feel I know Jack, Gwen and Owen so far!

Overall, decent but not spectacular. Will check it out next week.

Starbuck
October 23rd, 2006, 06:20 AM
By the way, Russell T. No ship. None. At All. Don't even go there.


Agreed.

If there is going to be ANY shipping whatsoever, it must be of the Jack/Doctor variety.

That is all.

Alipeeps
October 23rd, 2006, 06:21 AM
And, I see that I've missed something along the way (in Dr. Who?). As everyone seems to know that the severed hand belongs to the Doctor. When did this happen? I need details, people! ;)



Details, you say? Okay? In The Christmas Invasion (the first full ep starring David Tennant), the Doctor has a swordfight with the leader of the Sycorax (big ugly aliens) on top of the alien ship hovering above London. The Sycorax nearly wins when he knocks the Doctor down and chops off his sword hand! Sword and hand fall over the edge of the ship and disappear from view (I'd hate to have been the unlucky person that the sword landed on! :lol:)

Luckily for the doctor - and unluckily for the Sycorax - he was still within the first 24 (or was it 48?) hours of his regeneration cycle so he had just enough residual energy left to grow a brand new hand! With which he proceed to whup said Sycorax's ass! :D

That enough detail for you?

Alipeeps
October 23rd, 2006, 06:24 AM
2. Gwen, you're dealing with a guy who is clearly familiar with alien/advanced tech, certainly acts like "21st century Earth" isn't home and the only previous reference you've been able to find for him is from 1941 when he clearly isn't that old! Why can't you work out that he's a time traveller?


And, despite the fact that she herself has mentioned on several occasions that the only Capt. Jack Harkness on record disappeared in 1941 AND that Jack wears "period military" wear, it hasn't occured to her to connect the two and realise that, yes, he dresses in the kind of clothes commonly worn in......1941!! :rolleyes:

Starbuck
October 23rd, 2006, 06:26 AM
...so he had just enough residual energy left to grow a brand new hand! With which he proceed to whup said Sycorax's ass! :D

Cause his new hand was a FIGHTIN' HAND! :P :D

Flyboy
October 23rd, 2006, 06:40 AM
Has it occured to anyone else.... how truely wrong the "make me attractive" spray is.

Maybe this is me having no sense of fun...

But I call that rape. If they have sex I mean. Basically, how is that any different from date rape pills? The guy was altering the woman's perception using a mind altering drug in order to have sex with her. By standard definitions, that is rape. Does anyone else see that?

ShadowMaat
October 23rd, 2006, 06:54 AM
Yes. I thought the same thing. And it also reminded me of that ep of Atlantis.

Reefgirl
October 23rd, 2006, 06:54 AM
Has it occured to anyone else.... how truely wrong the "make me attractive" spray is.

Maybe this is me having no sense of fun...

But I call that rape. If they have sex I mean. Basically, how is that any different from date rape pills? The guy was altering the woman's perception using a mind altering drug in order to have sex with her. By standard definitions, that is rape. Does anyone else see that?
Hear hear FOB, I agree with everything you say, it's no better than taking advantage of a drunk woman and saying "She was asking for it"

ShadowMaat
October 23rd, 2006, 07:20 AM
I do have a few questions about the first ep-

Is Cardiff really that small that people can run everywhere? Or is it just that the Torchwood facility is conveniently central to everything?

And why would you run when you've been told you've been drugged? Doesn't that speed up the process? And why would you waste time running to get to your comp when a pen and a writable surface have to be a lot closer... and more durable?

Alipeeps
October 23rd, 2006, 08:56 AM
Cause his new hand was a FIGHTIN' HAND! :P :D

It sure was! :D :D


Has it occured to anyone else.... how truely wrong the "make me attractive" spray is.

Maybe this is me having no sense of fun...

But I call that rape. If they have sex I mean. Basically, how is that any different from date rape pills? The guy was altering the woman's perception using a mind altering drug in order to have sex with her. By standard definitions, that is rape. Does anyone else see that?

Yeah, that was a little disturbing. Especially the way he went out with the express intent of using that drug to get what he wanted. Alien Rophypnol... :S



And why would you run when you've been told you've been drugged? Doesn't that speed up the process? And why would you waste time running to get to your comp when a pen and a writable surface have to be a lot closer... and more durable?

I thought maybe the whole running thing might be an attempt to stay awake? Exertion might stave off the sedative for a while? I thought she was dumb to go for the computer - I was thinking she'd be better off grabbing a camcorder and recording herself a message with the information. A) Torchwood can't log on and delete that and b) she'd be a lot more likely to beleive that the next day than to beleive an incoherent note on the computer.

Reefgirl
October 23rd, 2006, 09:16 AM
And why would you waste time running to get to your comp when a pen and a writable surface have to be a lot closer... and more durable?
I wondered that, the deleting of the message on the computer stood out a mile.

Albion
October 23rd, 2006, 09:46 AM
Details, you say? Okay? In The Christmas Invasion (the first full ep starring David Tennant), the Doctor has a swordfight with the leader of the Sycorax (big ugly aliens) on top of the alien ship hovering above London. The Sycorax nearly wins when he knocks the Doctor down and chops off his sword hand! Sword and hand fall over the edge of the ship and disappear from view (I'd hate to have been the unlucky person that the sword landed on! )

Luckily for the doctor - and unluckily for the Sycorax - he was still within the first 24 (or was it 48?) hours of his regeneration cycle so he had just enough residual energy left to grow a brand new hand! With which he proceed to whup said Sycorax's ass!

Oh dear God - of course he did! Thanks for clearing that up. I remember now. But...how do we know the severed hand Jack has is that hand then? (Although I suppose you could make an educated guess given that it's probably improbable that Jack could come across two severed hands just lying around) How did Jack get...erm...hold of it? That was the main reason I couldn't place this event. I was trying to think of a Dr. Who ep with Jack in it where the Doctor lost his hand. Well, also, sword fights just bore me, so I ff through that bit when I watched it. Which only tends to prove the theory that you should never ff through anything on a first showing just in case you miss something important! :D

Albion :)

Albion
October 23rd, 2006, 09:54 AM
But I call that rape. If they have sex I mean. Basically, how is that any different from date rape pills? The guy was altering the woman's perception using a mind altering drug in order to have sex with her. By standard definitions, that is rape. Does anyone else see that?

Yes, I was aware of the moral issues with this one, too. In fact, I'm just realising that that's probably why Owen leaves me so cold and why I haven't warmed to him as a character as I have the others. He came across as pretty much a creep with this one. And leaving the 'taking advantage' and rape issues - think of the repercussions he must have caused in the lives of that couple. They probably broke up because her boyfriend thinks she was about to cheat on him. That kind of messing with people's lives - strangers' lives - is sick.


And why would you waste time running to get to your comp when a pen and a writable surface have to be a lot closer... and more durable?

I thought this myself when I saw she'd written remember on the pad. Why wouldn't you write it all down on the pad? Only thing I can figure is that writting it down longhand might have been slower and she knew she had little time to get it down. I've spent so many years doing all of my writing on a computer keyboard that I find writing longhand is a really laborious process these days because I'm no longer in the habit of it. I get cramp in my fingers after just a few paras. So maybe that was why Gwen chose the computer - for speed. She should have back it up onto disk though, para by para. That would have foxed them. ;)

Just heard that four out of five reviewers on Five Live this afternoon have been saying pretty much what the majority view is here. 1/ that the adult stuff was forced and desperately gratuitious. 2/ that it's boring seeing the same Cardiff locations constantly. and 3/ That, apparently, you can only be cool in Cardiff if you're standing on top of a building. <g> That last one makes me laugh because my husband's verdict at the end of DO was "Do these people always have to stand on top of buildings when they hold a conversation?" :D


I was thinking she'd be better off grabbing a camcorder and recording herself a message with the information. A) Torchwood can't log on and delete that and b) she'd be a lot more likely to beleive that the next day than to beleive an incoherent note on the computer.

Very good point!

Albion :)

The Signal
October 23rd, 2006, 10:23 AM
He probably got hold of it (The Doctor's Hand) through Torchwood 1, who were watching and so were bound to pick it up. I'm sure he simply convinced Yyvonne that he needed more than she did.

ShadowMaat
October 23rd, 2006, 10:26 AM
Gotta say, all this "Doctor's hand" stuff makes a whole lot more sense now that I realise you're talking about the severed hand in the bubbly stuff and not the resurrection glove thingy. ;)

Jax
October 23rd, 2006, 01:14 PM
Has it occured to anyone else.... how truely wrong the "make me attractive" spray is.

Maybe this is me having no sense of fun...

But I call that rape. If they have sex I mean. Basically, how is that any different from date rape pills? The guy was altering the woman's perception using a mind altering drug in order to have sex with her. By standard definitions, that is rape. Does anyone else see that?

Yes and I totally agree with you. It was made pretty obvious that, if sex did occur, she would most certainly not be in the right present of mind. Meaning she did not give consent (not only that, she already said no but he didn't take that as an answer). That is rape.

There's a massive debate about it going on at OG (last time I checked it racked upto 600+ posts, no outright insults so far, but it's very heated).

Anyway, please forget I just typed this, I don't want another forum plunged into a very heated debate.

ShadowMaat
October 23rd, 2006, 01:15 PM
And leaving the 'taking advantage' and rape issues - think of the repercussions he must have caused in the lives of that couple. They probably broke up because her boyfriend thinks she was about to cheat on him. That kind of messing with people's lives - strangers' lives - is sick.
What about the boyfriend? Unless he was exhibiting homo/bisexual tendencies before, Owen forced a straight guy to have sex with him. I'm thinking that is seriously gonna mess with the guy's psyche.

Reefgirl
October 23rd, 2006, 01:22 PM
Anyway, please forget I just typed this, I don't want another forum plunged into a very heated debate.
Debate is good, serious debate is better. I know RTD like to court contraversy but that was going a little too far, especially with 'The Boyfriend' so does this mean Owen swings both ways and if that's the case shouldn't there be UST between him and Capt Jack instead of Jack and Gwen. Mind you Owen looks like a bulldog chewing a wasp

Flyboy
October 23rd, 2006, 01:47 PM
I thought that Owen just made the guy attracted to him and made a run for it whilst the couple were fighting over him, but yes he just screwed up their relationship totally.

The Signal
October 23rd, 2006, 02:15 PM
does this mean Owen swings both ways

according to RTD, they all have same sex encounters over the course of the series, he claims he wants to try and challenge peoples perceptions of sexuality

Flyboy
October 23rd, 2006, 02:23 PM
Oh for God's sake.

I have no problem with homosexuality, heterosexuality or bisexuality in the show. But giving EVERYONE a homosexual encounter? PLEASE! There ARE people who go through life not having those. There are five in the team. Four if we discount omnisexual Jack. Four people. Statistics say that 1 in 3 people are gay. Statistics also say only 15% of the population are TOTALLY straight. In otherwords, with the remaining four people, it would only be believable to have 1 gay person. 2 bisexuals and 1 straight person. Levels of bisexuality can obviously vary. But statistically there should be at least ONE absolutely straight person in the group.

Reefgirl
October 23rd, 2006, 02:27 PM
With RTD and John Barrowman involved things will be as straight as a corkscrew, I know RTD is famous for his views on sexuality Homo, Hetro, Bi or whatever else but does he have to ram it down out throats at EVERY opportunity

Willow'sCat
October 23rd, 2006, 02:53 PM
With RTD and John Barrowman involved things will be as straight as a corkscrew, I know RTD is famous for his views on sexuality Homo, Hetro, Bi or whatever else but does he have to ram it down out throats at EVERY opportunity
Well there is always the OFF switch if it is all just too much for you. :cool: :rolleyes: I don't see it as ramming anything down anyone's throats. Like I said off switch.

ShadowMaat
October 23rd, 2006, 02:55 PM
Hopefully they'll get it out of their system early on and we can settle down to more "regular" material. Jest because you CAN have sex (of any flavor) in every ep doesn't mean you should.

Day One was pushing the limits a bit although I still think there's some good potential here. I don't like Owen at all. I'm not sure if we're supposed to. There tends to be one jerk in every group and in Torchwood it's definitely Owen. There's also usually an ep at some point to "redeem" the jerk, although after using an alien date rape drug, I don't know how redeemed he can ever really be.

Willow'sCat
October 23rd, 2006, 03:05 PM
There's also usually an ep at some point to "redeem" the jerk, although after using an alien date rape drug, I don't know how redeemed he can ever really be.I was thinking that about the redeeming episode but indeed how do you redeem that kind of behaviour? I am glad that at least it appears no one else knows exactly what he got up to, to know it and ignore it would add something to the show I don't need. :cool:

ShadowMaat
October 23rd, 2006, 05:22 PM
What do you make of Jack questioning Murder Victim Guy about what he saw after death? Seemed like more than just a random question, but Jack has died, too. Is he seeking confirmation of something or is he seeing if anyone else saw something? Or saw something different? Or is he obsessed because he can't die?

Flyboy
October 23rd, 2006, 05:30 PM
What do you make of Jack questioning Murder Victim Guy about what he saw after death? Seemed like more than just a random question, but Jack has died, too. Is he seeking confirmation of something or is he seeing if anyone else saw something? Or saw something different? Or is he obsessed because he can't die?

I think he saw nothing. And is darker for it. I think he wants to know that it was only because he didnt die properly that he saw nothing.

My God my heart actually wrenched when that guy said there was nothing and began to panic. That was a really intense scene/

Jax
October 23rd, 2006, 05:38 PM
Debate is good, serious debate is better. I know RTD like to court contraversy but that was going a little too far, especially with 'The Boyfriend' so does this mean Owen swings both ways and if that's the case shouldn't there be UST between him and Capt Jack instead of Jack and Gwen. Mind you Owen looks like a bulldog chewing a wasp

Oh agreed, debate is good and exercises the grey matter. I'm just so tired of going round in circles. :D

As for RTD's attempt at challenging peoples perception of sexuality, sexuality is a very personal thing and what he may believe is challenging it, others will find it bears no relationship at all to them (homo, hetero or bi).

ShadowMaat
October 23rd, 2006, 05:44 PM
Yeah, this new version of Jack has a whole new darkness/depth to him. Makes me love him even more.

Jonzey
October 23rd, 2006, 05:56 PM
I enjoyed both the episodes. Apart from Owen the characters are all likeable. I just hope that the whole overly sexual element dies down now. Two episodes in and two same-sex kisses. I don't have a problem with homosexuality, but neither one of those scenes really added anything to the story. They just seemed to be there to say ''look at us! we're an cutting edge adult show who's not afraid to do anything!''

I like how Jack has a sort of mini-obsession with tracking down the Doctor again (even though he wont recognise him) and it could make for some interesting near-crossovers in the future (when they deal with the aftermath of events hes caused). In addition to actual crossovers, of course.

Willow'sCat
October 23rd, 2006, 10:53 PM
Yeah, this new version of Jack has a whole new darkness/depth to him. Makes me love him even more.I haven't managed to put my finger on what is so unsettling about this Jack. There is something there, I'm just not sure what. :cool: Being abandoned by The Doctor and Rose must have hit him hard, not to mention the whole dying thing. :cool:


I like how Jack has a sort of mini-obsession with tracking down the Doctor again (even though he wont recognise him) and it could make for some interesting near-crossovers in the future (when they deal with the aftermath of events hes caused). In addition to actual crossovers, of course.
I think he may know what this Doctor looks like, if he knows about the Battle; then he probably knew the Doctor was back, Torchwood did obtain visual footage of the T.A.R.D.I.S, not to mention taking the T.A.R.D.I.S away... they (Torchwood branches) probably communicate with each other.

I want to know what he is doing with The Doctor's hand *if it is his hand* it is very strange behaviour; keeping a severed hand. :cool: Maybe he just needs to have something to remind him that The Doctor existed, that Rose existed... it is either something very deep or something very silly (The Brain of Morbius). Maybe he thinks The Doctor got sucked into the void with Rose. :(

And the way he reacted....

"Put it down! That's worthless to anyone but me!"

What is that about? :S I hope he isn't thinking he can grow a new Doctor from just his hand. LOL! :P

Reefgirl
October 24th, 2006, 12:24 AM
Well there is always the OFF switch if it is all just too much for you. :cool: :rolleyes: I don't see it as ramming anything down anyone's throats. Like I said off switch.

Used it to great effect at 9.50 on sunday night thankyouverymuch

Mr Prophet
October 24th, 2006, 03:29 AM
Has it occured to anyone else.... how truely wrong the "make me attractive" spray is.

Maybe this is me having no sense of fun...

But I call that rape. If they have sex I mean. Basically, how is that any different from date rape pills? The guy was altering the woman's perception using a mind altering drug in order to have sex with her. By standard definitions, that is rape. Does anyone else see that?

I don't think you're alone, and I honestly don't think - and I hope this is the case - that we were ever supposed to think of Owen as anything but a nasty little sleaze. Given in general how he's behaved, they seem to be pitching him as the one who presents the unpleasant ideas so you don't have to aggressively dislike the rest of the team (even if he has yet to receive the slapping he so richly deserves).

The Signal
October 24th, 2006, 03:59 AM
Okay, I've re-watched these to see if I was being a little harsh. I must say, when paid more interest, Ianto is quite likeable, theres obviously something else to him that we haven't seen yet. I think its quite different to have two characters who arent in the thick of it, Gwen, whose learning the ropes, and Ianto, who just lets things happen, the "attacking" line was admitedly brilliant.

Jack has something else about him, what happened to him would shake up most people, but not him, theres something else we really don't know yet, and it should be interesting to find out.

"Everything Changes" rises to an 8 partly because of Suzie's ending and the shock of that happening. I have to say, when she shot Jack I was sure it was some sort of test for Gwen. The other reason is down to Jack and the mystery of his character that I really didnt appreciate until the second viewing.


My score for "Day One" rises to a 7 for two reasons. First of all the Ianto moments, second of all Jack telling Gwen to let the job be a job, and not her life, theres something behind that that adds to the mystery.

ShadowMaat
October 24th, 2006, 04:26 AM
I'm wondering if Ianto might not be the most dangerous of them all. Well, other than Jack, of course. ;) The polite, helpful butler role is just a disguise.

re: the hand- Is it the fact that it's the Doctor's, or is it the fact that it's within the first 12 hours of a regeneration? I'm thinking the latter might play a part in things, although if Jack is researching ways to STOP regeneration (for himself) it could spell big trouble for the Doctor.

How did the Alien Sex Fiend know the hand was so important to Jack?

Shep'sSocks
October 24th, 2006, 04:43 AM
I do have a few questions about the first ep-

Is Cardiff really that small that people can run everywhere? Or is it just that the Torchwood facility is conveniently central to everything?

Well, I walked from the city centre to the bay and it seemed to take hours (really only 20 minutes but it was past all these creepy looking high rises). It's a fairly compact city but I wouldn't expect anyone to run everywhere.

Alipeeps
October 24th, 2006, 05:17 AM
How did the Alien Sex Fiend know the hand was so important to Jack?

I think she saw him glance at it as he realised she was standing near it... though I could be completely making that up... :lol:

pbellosom
October 24th, 2006, 06:25 AM
How did the Alien Sex Fiend know the hand was so important to Jack?

It was a creepy looking pickled hand in a organisation involved with aliens. they're hardly likely to have it around for decoration are they?

SoulSpinder
October 24th, 2006, 08:07 AM
Well I thought I was going to quote half the people here so I decided it would just be better to share my thoughts.

I went into watching the series a little wearily after reading the reviews here. But, to be honest, I was fairly satisfied with them! They didn't blow me away, but they were amusing enough. Admitedly, It drew me into some bits of laughter, which probably dosen't speak much for my character. (Though, in defense, despite being worried over the quality, I was extremely giddy when I watched them.)

As far as the argument over the preferances of the team, I don't think we have to worry too much. It was stated a while ago that someone was a little concerned with the preferences of the other staff members. We were told a while ago that Tashiko was bi, but other wise as far as we know the rest are straight. Owen, I think, was just trying to evade a scrap, one of the reasons he fled immediately. And "the creature" also was making people attracted to it, which would probably be the reason Gwen had her momement, as she seemed to have an 'oooh. so that's why I did that' moment when they figured out the mechanics.

I'm enjoying the characters so far. I'm not overly fond of Owen. (Was going to call him Harper, but then he reminds me of Andromeda's Harper. BUt on this note I have come to the conclusion that Owen is Harper's anscestor. Simply because they're enough alike. *L*) But he might grow on me. Heh.

I'm glad someone said they liked Ianto. I think he has a lot of potential. Half my laughs actually came from a couple of his lines. I really think there's something he's not letting on about himself, too. Or maybe just because he seems to be the most easy going...which is kind of part of his job, I suppose. But, still. If HE turns out to be a villian, I might shed a tear. *L*

Both episodes had come GREAT lines, at least in my opinion. I nearly died during Jack's little talk about the rain in the first episode. Also the officer's little spiel about "CSI: Cardif". I so want to do a spoof >.>

Ironically, though, two of my favorite moments were in the second episode.

First was the scene where Jack had exited and everyone started interogating Gwen about him. I think that in itself said a lot about how Jack's changed. It was also great to see that at least Gwen got a hint that JAck has his reasons to stay secret.

The other was "the hand" scene. It nearly broke my heart. We've only seen Jack really lash out once before this (After Rose "Died") but he looked absolutely livid and terrified when the jar was taken, then smashed. And then broken when he was cradelling the hand. Yes. I hugged my screen. Much to the annoyance of the others who were watching. >.> I'm a dork.

I'm not familar with Cardiff, but I can understand why some of you were a little put off by all the overhead shots.

Bah. I want to rant on, but classwork and classes themselves call x.x

Edit: EEP! One more thing. For those concerned they might throw in a Jack/Gwen ship... I'm going to remain hopeful and consider the later scenes of the 2nd episode when Jack tells Gwen to go home and lead a normal life. Im going to hope he sticks to that philosophy.

Now am I saying that they absolutely won't have a fling? No. Gwen seems very intrigued by Jack, and Jack is just fascinated by the fact that someone is alive. (I liked his line: Do you want to feel alive. Emphasis on feel ,not actually being. A fraud, a substitute.) So that might boil up to something. But will it actually form into "something" I don't think so/hope not, simply out of the fact that as much as Jack has changed, I think he knows what he'd be destroying for Gwen. Exspecially considering he knows that his life has never been predictible.

NowIWillDestroyAbydos
October 24th, 2006, 10:34 AM
I watched the first episode on my iPod yesterday (I'll watch "Day One" today, hopefully). I didn't expect that there were going to be swear words, but there were and I was very happy about that, swear word make a TV Show slightly better. Now to episode 1, I thought it was pretty good, the suicide at the end was a complete shock to me, it took me by surprise.

I really think David Tennant should appear this season so I can find out: A) how Captain Jack returned to Earth and B) what Rose did to Jack in the Finale of Season 1 (I'm American so I don't use Series) other than resurrecting him from death.

After watching the 1st episode, I think Torchwood is going to be a very good series. I'll be back after watching "Day One," aka Episode 2.

ShadowMaat
October 24th, 2006, 11:13 AM
Another thought about the severed hand- maybe Jack thinks he can use it to track the Doctor. Like calling to like or something.

VirtualCLD
October 24th, 2006, 04:40 PM
Right after Jack explains the perception filter, am I the only one who shouted "Somebody Elses Problem Field" (in my head at least)? Please tell me I'm not the only one who thought that.

Starbuck
October 24th, 2006, 04:47 PM
Yeah, this new version of Jack has a whole new darkness/depth to him. Makes me love him even more.

Yeh, same ole jack but he seems more tormented due to what happened to him in the Parting of The Ways.

I can't wait to see how they develop that storyline, and what really happened.

Also on another note, I found it slightly amusing that the dead guy's name at the start of the first episode, was John Tucker. :P
...John Tucker Must Die...:P

DigiFluid
October 24th, 2006, 04:53 PM
Right after Jack explains the perception filter, am I the only one who shouted "Somebody Elses Problem Field" (in my head at least)? Please tell me I'm not the only one who thought that.

THANK YOU!

I thought I was the only one here who had picked up on that!

pbellosom
October 24th, 2006, 04:58 PM
THANK YOU!

I thought I was the only one here who had picked up on that!

So did I.

Starbuck
October 24th, 2006, 05:05 PM
THANK YOU!

I thought I was the only one here who had picked up on that!

*crys* I don't get it...

mgehman
October 24th, 2006, 05:51 PM
Right after Jack explains the perception filter, am I the only one who shouted "Somebody Elses Problem Field" (in my head at least)? Please tell me I'm not the only one who thought that.
Oh yeah! Classic Douglas Adams. We all know real invisibility is very expensive, just label it "somebody elses problem" and the mind ignores it.

mgehman
October 24th, 2006, 05:52 PM
Just a thought. Suzie is credited in imdb as being in most of the episodes. I know it is not the most reliable source, but will she be back?:confused:

Starbuck
October 24th, 2006, 06:06 PM
Oh yeah! Classic Douglas Adams. We all know real invisibility is very expensive, just label it "somebody elses problem" and the mind ignores it.

Oh I get it now! :P

SoulSpinder
October 24th, 2006, 06:24 PM
Just a thought. Suzie is credited in imdb as being in most of the episodes. I know it is not the most reliable source, but will she be back?:confused:

On IMDB, they're all credited so far for five episodes. So I don't know if you should trust that.

ShadowMaat
October 24th, 2006, 07:07 PM
IMDB? Unreliable?! Pshaw! ;)

I wanna learn more about Ianto, the dark horse amongst them. :D

DigiFluid
October 24th, 2006, 07:36 PM
It was a creepy looking pickled hand in a organisation involved with aliens. they're hardly likely to have it around for decoration are they?

Best response in the thread :D

Chaka's_Mum
October 25th, 2006, 12:16 AM
Well, I walked from the city centre to the bay and it seemed to take hours (really only 20 minutes but it was past all these creepy looking high rises). It's a fairly compact city but I wouldn't expect anyone to run everywhere.

Cardiff is indeed a compact place - but, as you say, not compact enough to enable people to run between places without apparent effort like Gwen managed to do when she covered the distance between the High Street and City Hall in less than ten seconds. Okay it was an edit, but these two locations are a good half mile apart - and she was barely puffed despite running at full tilt! No wonder they want her at Torchwood; she's really a superhero!


Or is it just that the Torchwood facility is conveniently central to everything?

As Shep'sSocks has kindly demonstrated for us (you walked to the Bay? Why not use the number 6 bendy bus like unfit, lazy Unases do?;) ), Torchwood would only be central to everything if you wanted to eat in a different restaurant every night for a month and live in an incredibly expensive yuppie flat with walls thinner than a sheet of loo roll (or you happen to be an Assembly Member). The City is about two or three miles north of The Bay.

Of course, this is 'TV' Cardiff, not 'Real' Cardiff - so distances are a probably bit meaningless; not to mention people are able to see through buildings with extra eyes in the backs of their heads. That's the only way that Gwen and Boyfriend could possibly have stood at the bottom end of St Mary Street staring southwards in astonishment as a fireball streaked northwards over the Friary. Oh - wait. It was an edit, wasn't it? D'oh...

I'm still wondering whether or not to forgive the makers for that Aerial shot of Brunel House - maybe they were hoping for a nice little piece in the Echo with someone from Visit Wales going on about Torchwood being good for Cardiff Tourism in return for a funky shot of their office block.

If they were - they did.

Reefgirl
October 25th, 2006, 12:37 AM
Right after Jack explains the perception filter, am I the only one who shouted "Somebody Elses Problem Field" (in my head at least)? Please tell me I'm not the only one who thought that.

Me. Maybe it is a nod to the great Douglas Adams, as he used to write for Dr Who

Alipeeps
October 25th, 2006, 01:03 AM
Right after Jack explains the perception filter, am I the only one who shouted "Somebody Elses Problem Field" (in my head at least)? Please tell me I'm not the only one who thought that.

Yes! I was sat there thinking about the NIMBY effect (Not In My Back Yard)! :D :D

Starbuck
October 25th, 2006, 04:08 AM
I don't know if this has already been brought up in this thread yet, but is there anyone else who cant stand Gwen's GAPING HOLE between her front two teeth?

It's driving me batty. :eek:

Shep'sSocks
October 25th, 2006, 04:44 AM
As Shep'sSocks has kindly demonstrated for us (you walked to the Bay? Why not use the number 6 bendy bus like unfit, lazy Unases do?;) ), Torchwood would only be central to everything if you wanted to eat in a different restaurant every night for a month and live in an incredibly expensive yuppie flat with walls thinner than a sheet of loo roll (or you happen to be an Assembly Member). The City is about two or three miles north of The Bay.

I was with a local who said, "It's not far to the bay. Let's walk!" I didn't mind the walkies bit but could have done without the creepy high rises. On the way back I made her walk past the yuppy high rises instead. Yes, we walked back.

What I'd like to see is a shot of the house on Cowbridge Road East that Ivor Novello was born in. Used to pass it on the bus on the way to my friend's house. That would be cool.

The Signal
October 25th, 2006, 04:51 AM
Just a thought. Suzie is credited in imdb as being in most of the episodes. I know it is not the most reliable source, but will she be back?:confused:

No, she's on the Torchwood website too, and was credited as a regular in the credits (I think) it was all to catch us off guard. Joss Whedon did it for Buffy a couple of times too, it never ceases to shock me :D

Chaka's_Mum
October 25th, 2006, 04:59 AM
Right after Jack explains the perception filter, am I the only one who shouted "Somebody Elses Problem Field" (in my head at least)? Please tell me I'm not the only one who thought that.

I, alas, have to admit that I didn't; but, now that you mention it - it's a very good point. I like it! :D

Suzie also got a full profile in the Radio Times's pre-series hype. It'll be interesting to see whether she returns or whether this was indeed a 'shock exit' thing.

Mr Prophet
October 25th, 2006, 06:04 AM
She was on the end-of-episode credits for Day One as well.

SoulSpinder
October 25th, 2006, 07:10 AM
She was on the end-of-episode credits for Day One as well.

That might have been a contractual thing, or they were allowed to so they didn't have to redo the credits. (Even though that would take them a few secs >.>).

This is slightly off topic but I have a question for Cardiff residents/people who have been there/going there etc. I was wondering if any of you had pictures you wouldn't mind sharing/giving? I'd give the entire discription of how this is ontopic, but, I don't want to clog up the thread with promo/explination. *L*

The Signal
October 25th, 2006, 07:35 AM
She was on the end-of-episode credits for Day One as well.

I thought those credits were joint ones used, Im sure I saw cast lists headed by the episode titles :confused:

jenks
October 25th, 2006, 01:20 PM
Watching it now, tacky as hell but thats what makes the universe funny I suppose!

Pitry
October 25th, 2006, 01:21 PM
Well, it was mjuch better than I enticipated. ;)

I agree it had its eye-rolling moments, especially the second episode (yes, oh pulease indeed) - but let's admit it, the "sex-crazed alien", while always a bad idea, could have been so much worse!

They got me intrguied with the Doctor's hand. Maybe Jack's been lying? Maybe this is the key for his immortality?

Ausing they decided to locate this on Cardiff this time. ;)

I don't buy the excuse for people not believing what happened with the Cybermen/ Daleks. Sorry, it made for an insanely beautiful series endign for Doctor Who, but it's compeltely and utterly unbelivable that once again the human race ignored aliens. Come on!

And... I dunno. With all the "this is more fo an adult show" - it just made me realise how much I love the innocent of Doctor Who. I think the cocnept has lost something with this transformation. The dramatic heights are much more touching when they're full with the innocence of Doctor Who.

But I still luike. ;)

ETA: oh yeah. And I love the butler person. ;)

jenks
October 25th, 2006, 02:34 PM
I don't think you're alone, and I honestly don't think - and I hope this is the case - that we were ever supposed to think of Owen as anything but a nasty little sleaze. Given in general how he's behaved, they seem to be pitching him as the one who presents the unpleasant ideas so you don't have to aggressively dislike the rest of the team (even if he has yet to receive the slapping he so richly deserves).

Owen was my favourite character! I find it strange that everyone hates him so much...

Mr Prophet
October 25th, 2006, 02:57 PM
Owen was my favourite character! I find it strange that everyone hates him so much...

The attempted date rape probably doesn't help.

jenks
October 25th, 2006, 03:47 PM
The attempted date rape probably doesn't help.

Just seems to me people are being a little too over sensative, its only a bit of fun imo...

jenks
October 25th, 2006, 03:50 PM
according to RTD, they all have same sex encounters over the course of the series, he claims he wants to try and challenge peoples perceptions of sexuality

Oh that has put me right off, don't think I'm gonna bother with this series if its going to be full of that sort of stuff...

ShadowMaat
October 25th, 2006, 04:07 PM
The attempted date rape probably doesn't help.

Are we sure it was only attempted? Because I figured he went through with it... with both of them. I also kinda thought this wasn't the first time he'd done it. The sequences were showing the team's routine use of alien tech outside of the workplace.

Either way it was obvious he INTENDED to have sex with that woman and that's enough to turn me right off the character. Permanently.

Mr Prophet
October 25th, 2006, 04:16 PM
Are we sure it was only attempted? Because I figured he went through with it... with both of them. I also kinda thought this wasn't the first time he'd done it. The sequences were showing the team's routine use of alien tech outside of the workplace.

Either way it was obvious he INTENDED to have sex with that woman and that's enough to turn me right off the character. Permanently.

I'd certainly assumed it was more than attempted, but it was ambiguous and the attempt and intent is the culpable part. Whether he succeeded or not is more or less irrelevant, he's still a nasty little sleaze even if he did leg it and even if it was the first time he'd tried it.

jenks
October 25th, 2006, 05:27 PM
Am I the only one who thinks people are overreacting? I'd like to hear some comments on this from the writers, I honestly don't think they were trying to provoke this type of reaction (same with the stargate ones for a certain ep)... I mean, its just a bit of fun and I seriously doubt the majority of viewers would get so wound up about this or even take much notice, but die hard Sci-Fi fans to seem to go over every little detail :S

Toresica
October 25th, 2006, 06:04 PM
Are we sure it was only attempted? Because I figured he went through with it... with both of them. I also kinda thought this wasn't the first time he'd done it. The sequences were showing the team's routine use of alien tech outside of the workplace.
They were routinely using alien technology, but not necessarily that technology in particular. He wouldn't necessarily have had to smuggle it home if he had been using it regularly.

Flyboy
October 25th, 2006, 06:08 PM
Am I the only one who thinks people are overreacting? I'd like to hear some comments on this from the writers, I honestly don't think they were trying to provoke this type of reaction (same with the stargate ones for a certain ep)... I mean, its just a bit of fun and I seriously doubt the majority of viewers would get so wound up about this or even take much notice, but die hard Sci-Fi fans to seem to go over every little detail :S
Science Fiction is one of the most sophisticated methods of challenging the public to entertain new ideas, philosophies, or question what they know. Sci Fi is the best way to comment on society! I think such debates are always intended to be caused.

ShadowMaat
October 25th, 2006, 06:10 PM
They were routinely using alien technology, but not necessarily that technology in particular. He wouldn't necessarily have had to smuggle it home if he had been using it regularly.

I figured he'd smuggled it home at some earlier date and took it along whenever he felt the itch. But even if it was the first time and even if he didn't go through with it, the intent was still there. If the boyfriend hadn't come along, he would have had sex with that woman.

Sorry, but I don't find non-con sex funny. And I don't think I'm overreacting or that I need to lighten up and I'd appreciate it if my opinion was respected, not dismissed, no matter how much some may disagree with me.

Toresica
October 25th, 2006, 06:10 PM
^^ I agree with that part.


I'm sorry, I wasn't trying to dismiss your idea... just trying to discuss.

ShadowMaat
October 25th, 2006, 06:21 PM
I'm sorry, I wasn't trying to dismiss your idea... just trying to discuss.
You? No, you didn't.

Debates are good for the soul. :)

jenks
October 25th, 2006, 06:38 PM
Sorry, but I don't find non-con sex funny. And I don't think I'm overreacting or that I need to lighten up and I'd appreciate it if my opinion was respected, not dismissed, no matter how much some may disagree with me.

But it's OK for you to red someone else for their opinion?

ShadowMaat
October 25th, 2006, 06:43 PM
But it's OK for you to red someone elses opinion?

When I feel that it's being disrespectful? Yes. But then again, why does there have to be a "reason" for a red? I've gotten plenty of negs just for being me. Or for daring to neg someone else. *shrug* Your attitude offended me, I negged you for it. That simple.

Me? I'm more than happy to discuss multiple points of view, but when someone starts off by implying that there's something wrong with my opinion and continues to act as if I'm "overreacting" then I find it a bit difficult to maintain an open mind about the subject... and the person.

I dislike Owen. I think that he is either a rapist or an attempted rapist and while I could understand the joke the writers intended and can see how some might find it humorous, I don't share that particular sense of fun. I hope the character gets his come-uppance and soon.

Easter Lily
October 25th, 2006, 10:28 PM
Caught the first episode... not too bad... could have been worse from all the early mumblings. I'm getting a bit of deja vu from RTD lately... Body snatching in New Earth and now the aphrodisiac spray. Wonder if the man watches SGA in his spare time.
It was pretty much a set up episode and a couple of interesting twists at the end but I felt that the episode was somewhat rushed at the end. Overall, a decent start if a little talky.

scarimor
October 26th, 2006, 01:48 AM
Just seems to me people are being a little too over sensative, its only a bit of fun imo...

The date rape wasn't meant to be seen as amusing. It was portrayed as an abuse of tech and privilege, and the strong implication was that he'd done it before. The guy is a lech, obviously. He used the alien drug to get off with a woman because he can't get one another way, and he used it to get off with her boyfriend just to stop the boyfriend objecting. Then in the next episode we have him sitting and gawping at two women snogging instead of drawing his colleagues' attention to a serious problem with a lethal alien.

Previously, of course, the woman abusing tech was going round murdering people. Rapists and murderers.

This seems to be lost on a few people. Gwen is the girl next door searchlight who comes in and draws Torchwood's attention to what they've become - "beyond the United Nations" etc. and outside the law means power and secrecy without accountability, so inevitably corrupting. You don't realise how far you've gone until it's too late.

Remember how shocked Gwen was to learn that they weren't even trying to identify the killer in the first episode? And the killer turned out to be one of them. Not only were they not a solution to any problem, they were far worse than useless: they were the problem.

If rape is funny - if it can ever be perceived as "a bit of fun", think twice. Perhaps the writer is deliberately exposing your sensibilities as wanting.

Reefgirl
October 26th, 2006, 02:06 AM
Just seems to me people are being a little too over sensative, its only a bit of fun imo...
That is extremely tasteless, you've obviously never been followed home by some guy who wouldn't take no for an answer or had to fight off some lout who thought he was God's Gift

jonno
October 26th, 2006, 03:12 AM
Am I the only one who thinks people are overreacting? I'd like to hear some comments on this from the writers, I honestly don't think they were trying to provoke this type of reaction (same with the stargate ones for a certain ep)... I mean, its just a bit of fun and I seriously doubt the majority of viewers would get so wound up about this or even take much notice, but die hard Sci-Fi fans to seem to go over every little detail :S

Except that's just the point - this show isn't SUPPOSED to be 'just a bit of fun'. The problem is, people (however unwittingly), still go into this with Dr. Who in mind - still with that kind of, bubbling along on the surface happy go-lucky feel of that show (i admit i did that myself - i didn't register it as rape til i read it here). Torchwood however, is deeper - it's dark, gritty ... almost the exact opposite of a sci-fi show to Who. Yes - there'll still be the odd bit of humour here and there, but overall, it's supposed to make you think deeper. The character's unlike the Dr and Rose ARE flawed, deeply. That's the whole point. And it's also why te DR. suppossedly will never appear on Torchwood - his character wouldn't fit.

ShadowMaat
October 26th, 2006, 04:34 AM
I think part of the reason Jack had Gwen join Torchwood was to keep them all human. Didn't he even say as much? She's there because she can still think- and emote- on a human level. The others seem to be in it for themselves (or at least have become preoccupied with their own issues) but Gwen's the one who thinks of the victims, of the people who are being affected by what Torchwood does. She's a wide-eyed reality check and hopefully she's gonna help ground the others. Barring Owen, of course. :rolleyes:

I think Jack is the one who needs her the most (another reason to bring her in), especially since he isn't entirely human anymore and he's basically living in the past. Hard to connect with people in a situation like that. Hopefully he'll regain some of the sense of fun he had in Doctor Who.

BC - 303
October 26th, 2006, 04:53 AM
I do think Owen isnt supose to be liked, yet.
Hes going to be betrayed as this stupid guy who was a one track mind (where as normal guys can think of 2 or MABEY 3 things, if lucky, trust me i am one).
I expect a redemption thing being done later in the series.

Pitry
October 26th, 2006, 11:40 AM
The date rape wasn't meant to be seen as amusing. It was portrayed as an abuse of tech and privilege, and the strong implication was that he'd done it before. The guy is a lech, obviously. He used the alien drug to get off with a woman because he can't get one another way, and he used it to get off with her boyfriend just to stop the boyfriend objecting. Then in the next episode we have him sitting and gawping at two women snogging instead of drawing his colleagues' attention to a serious problem with a lethal alien.

Previously, of course, the woman abusing tech was going round murdering people. Rapists and murderers.

This seems to be lost on a few people. Gwen is the girl next door searchlight who comes in and draws Torchwood's attention to what they've become - "beyond the United Nations" etc. and outside the law means power and secrecy without accountability, so inevitably corrupting. You don't realise how far you've gone until it's too late.

Remember how shocked Gwen was to learn that they weren't even trying to identify the killer in the first episode? And the killer turned out to be one of them. Not only were they not a solution to any problem, they were far worse than useless: they were the problem.

If rape is funny - if it can ever be perceived as "a bit of fun", think twice. Perhaps the writer is deliberately exposing your sensibilities as wanting.

As been said before, isn't that exactly the point? They weer all abusing the techonology. Which is why I don't think we're particularily supposed to dislike Owen. Suzie was murdering people, but the scene to explain what her feelings about all of this were ambiguous, showing the viewers her side of the story, as well as the wrongs she did. You don't come out of the episode feelign she's a horrible murderer, in some way you migth even sympathise her, even if just a little bit. What Toshiko did was just as moraly wrong as Owen or Suzie, just the outcome wasn't as horrid.
Yet.
She got lucky.

I see this much more as the metaphore on people abusing technology rather than having one fo the main characters as an evil rapist.


Except that's just the point - this show isn't SUPPOSED to be 'just a bit of fun'. The problem is, people (however unwittingly), still go into this with Dr. Who in mind - still with that kind of, bubbling along on the surface happy go-lucky feel of that show (i admit i did that myself - i didn't register it as rape til i read it here). Torchwood however, is deeper - it's dark, gritty ... almost the exact opposite of a sci-fi show to Who. Yes - there'll still be the odd bit of humour here and there, but overall, it's supposed to make you think deeper. The character's unlike the Dr and Rose ARE flawed, deeply. That's the whole point. And it's also why te DR. suppossedly will never appear on Torchwood - his character wouldn't fit.

Interesting. I odn't get a "happy go lucky" feeling from Doctor Who. On the surface, yes. But if you try and delve deeper, it can be quite depressing. I also have to say I think both th eDoctor and Rose were very far from perfect (and TBH, I'd love to see the Doctor on Torchwood - much more than Jack on Doctor Who. he potential for interesting storyline and moments is much bigger that way... IMHO ;))

jenks
October 26th, 2006, 02:28 PM
Except that's just the point - this show isn't SUPPOSED to be 'just a bit of fun'.

Maybe fun wasn't the best word I could of used, but I still think it was done in quite a light hearted way, even if it was supposed show abuse of technology I still don't think the writers were trying to provoke the sort of reaction a lot of people are having to it...

Pitry
October 26th, 2006, 03:26 PM
Maybe fun wasn't the best word I could of used, but I still think it was done in quite a light hearted way, even if it was supposed show abuse of technology I still don't think the writers were trying to provoke the sort of reaction a lot of people are having to it...

To this I'd agree. The point - the way I see it, at any rate - wasn't to make people hate Owen - what's the point of purposely causing one of the main characters to be hated from day 1? - but to hint that whatever level this is done, whether Owen, Susie or Toshiko, we're all likely to fall, one way or the other.

It is the harder to digest view, however, so I'm not surprised people are reacting violently. ;)

jonno
October 26th, 2006, 05:16 PM
Interesting. I odn't get a "happy go lucky" feeling from Doctor Who. On the surface, yes. But if you try and delve deeper, it can be quite depressing. I also have to say I think both th eDoctor and Rose were very far from perfect (and TBH, I'd love to see the Doctor on Torchwood - much more than Jack on Doctor Who. he potential for interesting storyline and moments is much bigger that way... IMHO ;))

Perhaps i should have added in 'relatively speaking' :p

Now, admittedly, i haven't caught up on all of Who yet, and so haven't really managed to delve deeper - but i'd still argue it's a more cheerful type of show.

And OK, so the Dr and Rose may not be perfect. But they're more heroic - they're definitely playing on the right side - they're good - they have definite morals (take the Christmas invasion Sycorrax ship destruction and the Dr's objection to it,for example). They are the heroes.

The Torchwood team, with the exception of the newbie have lost that. Yes they're protecting Earth ... but they don't worry about who they hurt along the way.

Madeleine
October 27th, 2006, 01:52 AM
I loved this. I found it slow, but if slow is done well it can be better than fast & frenetic :D. The atmosphere of ordinary Cardiff and the strangeness of torchwood were built up perfectly. Not all of the characters were showcased much, but those who were got a good intro.

Gwen is sweet, and tough but not hard. If she's the protagonist of the show, even if Jack's the star, I think it'll be a good thing.

The opening sequence was quite shocking. After Torchwood London seemed so savvy and directed, to see the Cardiff gang - who later turned out to be the sum total of torchwood3 - squabbling about whether or not they should tell a dead guy he's dead and about their previous failure, making it all seem so make-it-up-as-we-go, it was a surprise. And they never thought ot ask the guy if he had a message for his mum and dad. Even Jack, who thought to ask his name, only did it to improve the guy's focus on the next question, the one about what you see when you die :S. Oh boy do they need someone like Gwen.

I liked the new more serious Jack. I was stunned by his resurrection. It explains the odd question to the dead fella. Like shadowmaat said, it's a cunning upfront way to deal with the You Know We Aren't About To Kill The Star syndrome.

I liked Ianto and Tech Girl. Hope they get more to do later.

Owen made a good first impression. Pizzas for torchwood :D.

Pity he turned into a (would-be?) rapist. He'll never get back to the post-pizza/pre-spray level of niceness I'd given him, ever. I dunno if he was calling "TAXI! get me out of here while these two are distracted by bickering" or "TAXI! get me to where I can get these two nekkid!" but either way, he's slime. I can't make excuses. He knew she wasn't interested. I'm almost glad it was so clear cut that he's a git - if there *were* excuses I'd feel more worried about the morality of watching a guy taking advantage for entertainment. But this is so obviously WRONG. Owen HAS to get some sort of payback/comeuppance eventualy. Like Scarimor says, no way can we be SUPPOSED to like that creep.

I suspect the reason we saw him with the spray and thingybob with her book-reader was to distract from Susie with her glove. At the time, I thought it was solely a counterpoint to Jack saying that the tech never left the office, showing that they all applied the "unless I really want to" caveat to rules. The girls were interested in the tecih for its own sake, Owen was an exploitative sod, HE was the one we thought most poorly of, we had no cause to indict Sophie as the murderer.

It was a superb scene where Susie revealed herself. A true twisty turny surprise. Props to indira varma, and a pity she's gone now (I assume that all her character's profiling as a regular in the press was a clever and effective ruse) but I think that was one stunning piece of acting.

I didn't mind the 'adult' content. The language was fairly tame; if you watch Prime Suspect or Green Wing or if you listen to teenagers on busses you hear far worse all the time. The tone was about right. Stuff like the black comedy of the cleaner and the weevil, and the sudden change to horror when he got attacked was reminiscent of Buffy's genre-hopping.

The bit that most intrigues me most was about Torchwood4. In Babylon 5 one of the best threads of the intricate plot was that B1, B2 and B3 had all been sabotaged before completion, B5 was the first and last of the active stations, and B4 had disappeared without a trace the day before going operational. But it was a big, portentions thing whenever anyone said so, it was signposted as a big big deal. (The payoff happenned to be really good, btw.) The fact that Torchwood4 was missing was given as much significance by Jack as if a coffee cup had gone astray. But it must mean something, right? I hope it turns out to be good.

Madeleine
October 27th, 2006, 02:08 AM
Not so good as last week, but still entertaining and with a few enjoyable hints about what sort of things are to come. No pun intended.

I found the adult tone fine last week, but this week it was annoying. I mean, people saying swearwords and mentioning sex is pretty ordinary in RL, but this wasn't just making the show seem like it's in a realistic Cardiff, it had a plot that was all about orgasms. This early on in the show, it has an air of just being about orgasms for the sake of being adult. I hope they've got that out of their systems; a little sex driving one of the plots won't hurt, but if it happens too often it'll feel cheap. On the other hand, if a few weeks go by without gratuitous sex fiends being the villain of the week, it'll redeem this ep.

Poor Gwen, her police pals are going to be distanced from her, and she's finding her bf dull. She's there to keep torchwood human and grounded, but she's already started to lose part of her anchor to the everyday world.

Owen was still a sleaze, but in a comic way :S. His colleagues seem to know he's a sleaze, although I doubt they know the extent. I can handle him being funny sleazy guy as long as eventually he gets seriously pounded for a piece of sleaziness too many. I can wait.

Jack cares about the Doctor's hand! Why? :cool:

Ianto, Tech Lass, still good, still minor. More of her please. I think he's effective as a background character, much as I like him.

And they all know nothing about Jack. I think that was a subtle reminder for us that we know little more about him ourselves.

The series shows lots of promise.

Darkstar
October 27th, 2006, 03:39 AM
The series does show a huge amount of promise, the idea is sound, the idea worked in the secret organisation regard in Dr Who, it's very likely to believe that if it was real (Who know's) a secret organisation would work to keep alien technology and use it to defend their own planet and technology, it's shamefully human nature through and through.

I do like the mystery of the show, the temporal rift that goes somewhere we haven't seen, the little things in there that parralel Dr Who, I have to say it is a bit weird to have wached the show in all of it's adult content when so much of it feels very charmingly and inocently Dr who-ish.

I for one think it shows promise, if the sex and maybe some of the unessesary swearing was swept into that rift then I'm sure many fans of Dr who, who are adults and like me have no shame in having watched Dr who that is aimed moslty at the younger audience will grow to like the show, the second episode of series one was not nice, I have to say, no matter how many times I watch that it feels dreadful and an episode I do not like, lets hope this sunday night will give us not a single reminder of that shakey episode, and the show moves on from there. :D

scarimor
October 27th, 2006, 04:13 AM
... I have to say it is a bit weird to have wached the show in all of it's adult content when so much of it feels very charmingly and inocently Dr who-ish.
That juxtaposition of form and content is throwing people, and it's so significant imo. I'm just a bit worried that they won't be able to sustain it. I hope they do.

knowles2
October 27th, 2006, 06:09 AM
I thought the two episode was alright. I think the episodes brought up a lot of questions, where is torchwood four, where does time rift goes. Where do them aliens come from. Who is jack boss and how did he join torchwood and get charge of their Cardiff operations. I think unlike other series the two episodes created a lot of opertunities and questions for the future.

Their is a lot of growth to the series and a lot questions to answer. This series got lot of space to grow into.

Personally I did not mind the sex and swearing, personally I thought it made it more realistic and different to most other sci fi series on tv at the moment. I think they should keep their style and may be decrease the amount sex scenes, but certainly may be show different kind of adult content, more violence.
Introduce more scifi content to the series. If I was rate the series out of ten then i would give it a 7 and with a lot
room to grow I am sure that the rating will increase.

Also take some of the doctor comical style out of it. Also they should explain why they are in such a run down facility compare to torchwood in London.

CatGoddess
October 27th, 2006, 08:00 PM
I've watched the first two eps. My thoughts (admittedly random, as I'm sick as a dog :( and I've been living on Dayquil for the past two days):

I was a bit surprised at the swearing and at the overt sex (particularly, from "Day One", the two people shagging in the bathroom, and then the guy watching them on CCTV and masturbating). Things like that would not fly on American network TV, at least not in prime time. If SciFi does acquire the rights to air Torchwood, they will probably end up doing a LOT of editing. Or maybe some premium cable channel like HBO or Showtime would pick it up; they have more leeway in the swearing, sex, and violence departments.

I thought of the "Somebody Else's Problem Field" too. :o

It's interesting to see right up front that most of the characters have some big flaws. A small example: Captain Jack tells Gwen that no alien tech is allowed to leave the base. Cut to scenes of Toshiko, Owen, and Susie - each of whom has made off with an item of alien tech for his or her own purposes.

What Owen did with the irresistibility spray was very shady. It's no different from sneaking rohypnol into a girl's drink. He tried to pick the woman up, and she said no, quite clearly... so he used the spray to coerce her into doing what he wanted. If he did get her into bed (it was unclear to me whether he did, or whether he got both her and her boyfriend into bed, or what), then that's rape.

I'm wondering if Gwen is going to become a darker character over time, as she spends more and more time with the rest of the Torchwood team. So far she's been very much the "good girl" but I'm curious to see if the rest of the team rubs off on her.

Oh, and Gwen was very silly to type out her notes on her computer after Captain Jack slipped her the amnesia pill. It would have been better for her to save them, print them out as she went (!), or even write a couple of key words down on paper (she wrote "remember" but she should have added "Torchwood" and "Captain Jack Harkness" at a minimum).

I'm a little concerned about something. Doctor Who is a fairly lighthearted show intended to be ok for children to watch (indeed, it originally was a children's show). Torchwood is a spinoff of Doctor Who. I'm wondering how many parents may have let their kids (including little kids) watch Torchwood, thinking that because it's a spinoff of a child-suitable show, it would itself be appropriate for a small child? Was it advertised as a show more suitable for adults? Was it aired late at night, when the kiddies would be in bed? Just wondering... if I were a 5-year-old watching that show, my parents would have shut off the TV at the first F-bomb. I can just picture some 5-year-old turning to his/her parents and asking, "Mommy, what's an orgasm?" :eek:

Anyway. I think the show has promise, and I will keep watching.

ShadowMaat
October 27th, 2006, 08:09 PM
It's interesting to see right up front that most of the characters have some big flaws. A small example: Captain Jack tells Gwen that no alien tech is allowed to leave the base. Cut to scenes of Toshiko, Owen, and Susie - each of whom has made off with an item of alien tech for his or her own purposes.
I wonder if Ianto ever takes his work home with him. ;)

As for worrying about the kiddies, from what I've seen of the press coverage they've made it very clear that Torchwood is an adult show, not for kids. Does the UK have content warnings prior to eps?

Willow'sCat
October 27th, 2006, 08:31 PM
I'm a little concerned about something. Doctor Who is a fairly lighthearted show intended to be ok for children to watch (indeed, it originally was a children's show). Torchwood is a spinoff of Doctor Who. I'm wondering how many parents may have let their kids (including little kids) watch Torchwood, thinking that because it's a spinoff of a child-suitable show, it would itself be appropriate for a small child? Was it advertised as a show more suitable for adults? Was it aired late at night, when the kiddies would be in bed? Just wondering... if I were a 5-year-old watching that show, my parents would have shut off the TV at the first F-bomb. I can just picture some 5-year-old turning to his/her parents and asking, "Mommy, what's an orgasm?"RTD has actually been for the last 12 mths saying it is for adults, not children and that it is a post watershed show. Every interview with him he has said this or similar things and John often makes references to it being for adults and having sex.... ;) I do hear the BBC may have advertised the show in childrens hour, which seems a little counter productive, but hey if the ad meets the rules for broadcast.... :cool:

And yes the *cough* copy I have did say (in the voice over) that it contained adult content just before they screened it.

CatGoddess
October 27th, 2006, 09:18 PM
OK, I'm glad to hear this is being advertised as a show geared toward adults. I'm in the US, so I haven't seen any of the advertising, and much of the BBC website content is blocked from non-UK IP addresses. The *cough*copy*cough* of the Torchwood eps that I *cough*acquired*cough* did not include any cautions as to content.

I don't have kids myself, but many of my friends do - in fact, a friend of mine is due to give birth today, so I'm waiting to hear from her DH. So "child appropriateness" is always in the back of my head.

Reefgirl
October 28th, 2006, 01:57 AM
Does the UK have content warnings prior to eps?
If I remember rightly a warning did go out before the ep on Sunday "Contains Bad language and scenes of an Adult nature" or something like that.

Right from it's conception Torchwood has been touted as an 'Adult Dr Who'

scarimor
October 28th, 2006, 02:48 AM
... I'm in the US, so I haven't seen any of the advertising, and much of the BBC website content is blocked from non-UK IP addresses.
It is!?!? I had no idea that was the case. What can you see?

CatGoddess
October 28th, 2006, 11:53 AM
It is!?!? I had no idea that was the case. What can you see?

I can see the layout, but not the video clips. Instead of the clips, I see the following:

"If you are outside the UK you will not be able to watch any of the video on bbc.co.uk/torchwood for rights reasons."

Drat... :(

scarimor
October 28th, 2006, 01:12 PM
I can see the layout, but not the video clips. Instead of the clips, I see the following:

"If you are outside the UK you will not be able to watch any of the video on bbc.co.uk/torchwood for rights reasons."

Drat... :(
How annoying. Oh well :(

Catsitter
October 28th, 2006, 03:35 PM
Oh dear, I hope this doesn't make us bad parents, but we did let our 12-year-old watch it with us. I wouldn't have bothered watching any more after the first episode if it weren't for the fact that he liked it, though. The "funny" bits just fall flat with me, and the plots have such big holes in them. Not sure if we have to put spoiler tags on, so just in case:

- Could the sex alien fiend have got out of its spaceship if Gwen hadn't thrown the chisel at it? If not, then what was the point of it coming to Earth? If it could, then it wasn't really Gwen's fault, was it?
- Jack can't die, so why didn't he just go off with the S.A.F. for a prolonged bout of how's-your-father while the rest of the team thought up a plan? (And the BBC wouldn't actually need to show what they got up to if they didn't want to.)

Willow'sCat
October 28th, 2006, 05:17 PM
I can see the layout, but not the video clips. Instead of the clips, I see the following:

"If you are outside the UK you will not be able to watch any of the video on bbc.co.uk/torchwood for rights reasons."

Drat... :(I posted about this in the Doctor Who news thread, if you use the link below, you can get to the video's but for many people *myself included* the videos still don't work....:( I have to rely on friends... :) elsewhere... ;)

This is the link:

Torchwood (http://www.bbc.co.uk/torchwood/holder.swf)

As I said it still is not working for me so it may not work for you. I am thinking they look at your ISP address so maybe using a Proxy would work. :S

ShadowMaat
October 28th, 2006, 05:24 PM
Proxies don't work. Or at least I haven't found one that works yet. *sigh*

Shep'sSocks
October 28th, 2006, 06:08 PM
Proxies don't work. Or at least I haven't found one that works yet. *sigh*

If I could find a proxy that worked I'd be able to d/l SGA from iTunes or Amazon as well as everything else I wanted. It sucks.

ShadowMaat
October 28th, 2006, 08:06 PM
So where is this memo about Ianto and his special coffee blend? I tried hunting through the intranet files and only gave myself a headache with all the floaty things. Although I did learn a few interesting tidbits. None coffee-related...

Mr Prophet
October 29th, 2006, 12:48 AM
So where is this memo about Ianto and his special coffee blend? I tried hunting through the intranet files and only gave myself a headache with all the floaty things. Although I did learn a few interesting tidbits. None coffee-related...

It's on his workstation in the Flash version of the main site, at the bottom of the one about leaving monitors on (apparently the floaty things give the pterodactyl a headache as well).

So, were you at all surprised to learn why Dr Harper isn't doctoring for a living anymore?

Catsitter
October 29th, 2006, 03:52 AM
After I got off the computer and went to bed last night, I was still worrying that... spoiler for "Day One"...


my suggested solution to the S.A.F. problem still meant that Carys's body would explode if they didn't think of something fairly soon, but then I realised the logical solution - Jack can't die, so he should have offered to "host" the SAF, and then... well, he wouldn't actually need a partner to generate the energy required, as proven by the security guard and the sperm donors... but now I've thought of it, I can't understand why RTD didn't put this into the plot! It so should have happened!

Mr Prophet
October 29th, 2006, 04:59 AM
I was assuming that the being had to be in a female body, just as it had to 'harvest' from men. As has been noted, the alien sex gas was - bizarrely - the most determinedly hetero character in the series.

ShadowMaat
October 29th, 2006, 06:14 AM
So, were you at all surprised to learn why Dr Harper isn't doctoring for a living anymore?

I'll have to go back and look again because I didn't see anything about leaving monitors on or why Owen isn't a doctor anymore. *sigh*

Maybe I was a pterodactyl in a former life...

EDIT: Ah, yes... I can't access Ianto's desktop/node because the content is locked. *******s.

Mr Prophet
October 29th, 2006, 09:26 AM
I'll have to go back and look again because I didn't see anything about leaving monitors on or why Owen isn't a doctor anymore. *sigh*

Maybe I was a pterodactyl in a former life...

EDIT: Ah, yes... I can't access Ianto's desktop/node because the content is locked. *******s.


Same for everyone: What you need is the page on the main site that gives you the link to the Torchwood Extranet. The main image on that page should be Ianto's memo.

Um...

Blag it! I've grabbed a screen but I've nowhere to host the image to load it here. I'll slap it up at my livejournal (http://lslaw.livejournal.com/).

Owen's node is, unsurprisingly, full of snippets of love letters from patients and an extract of an email about 'serious allegations'.

ShadowMaat
October 29th, 2006, 10:29 AM
Ahhh... after comparing node numbers it looks as if Ianto's memo is one of the many things that, as a Damn Yank, I'm not allowed to access. *grumble* Thanks for the screengrab though, that helps. :)

Although now it makes me wonder if Ianto is related to Luke, what with the whole super-secret coffee blend thing (and I'm betting Ianto's uses something not strictly kosher as well). :D

Mr Prophet
October 29th, 2006, 10:32 AM
Just so long as they stay away from Mess Sergeant Tabor's stash.

I wonder if anyone's ever written an SGC mess employee who doesn't have a secret coffee stash?

ShadowMaat
October 29th, 2006, 10:35 AM
Have you ever noticed that it's always coffee? No one ever has a super-secret cookie recipe (magic brownie-type things aside) or a super-secret smoothie blend or even a super-secret tea blend, it's always coffee. Sounds like a conspiracy in and of itself. :D

Mr Prophet
October 29th, 2006, 10:41 AM
Well, it is the primary cash crop of the Goa'uld Empire.

And some Italian families have a secret tomato recipe.

Willow'sCat
October 29th, 2006, 12:58 PM
I'll have to go back and look again because I didn't see anything about leaving monitors on or why Owen isn't a doctor anymore. *sigh*

Maybe I was a pterodactyl in a former life...

EDIT: Ah, yes... I can't access Ianto's desktop/node because the content is locked. *******s.
That's odd, did you use the link I gave? I can access everything on the site with that link, just not make the dam video play. :(

It gave me access to Ianto's workstation/node thingy.

pbellosom
October 29th, 2006, 01:08 PM
Have you ever noticed that it's always coffee? No one ever has a super-secret cookie recipe (magic brownie-type things aside) or a super-secret smoothie blend or even a super-secret tea blend, it's always coffee. Sounds like a conspiracy in and of itself. :D

In freinds there was a secret cookie recipe.

ShadowMaat
October 29th, 2006, 01:16 PM
I can access the extranet and get to the various nodes from there (Torchwood, Jack, Owen, etc), but I can't get into Ianto's node. Or Susie's, I think. They're both loacked and listed as being updated.

Mr Prophet
October 29th, 2006, 01:20 PM
I can access the extranet and get to the various nodes from there (Torchwood, Jack, Owen, etc), but I can't get into Ianto's node. Or Susie's, I think. They're both loacked and listed as being updated.

That's not from being outside the UK though. There's nothing there for us, either.

ShadowMaat
October 29th, 2006, 01:24 PM
That's not from being outside the UK though. There's nothing there for us, either.

Yeah, I know, but I think Willow was thinking I couldn't get on the extranet. I was just trying to clarify. ;)

Willow'sCat
October 29th, 2006, 01:28 PM
That's not from being outside the UK though. There's nothing there for us, either.
I'm confused what are we talking about? :S I can see the thing with the coffee reference and the Pterodactyl, light flickering thing, is this something else again? :cool: Yes is confused. Oh do you mean the floaty one?

ShadowMaat
October 29th, 2006, 01:34 PM
Oooooo, now that's strange. I'll withdraw all gripes. Willow's link works. Could have sworn that was the same as the site I'd been visiting, but apparently it isn't.

So when's the new ep air?

Willow'sCat
October 29th, 2006, 01:43 PM
I think it is airing, it starts at 10pm.

The Signal
October 29th, 2006, 01:46 PM
I think it is airing, it starts at 10pm.

Another 15 minutes yet (clocks went back an hour last night, so its 21:45 right now)

Billz
October 29th, 2006, 02:52 PM
I cant believe I missed the 3rd episode. I hate my TV for blowing up.!!!

Flyboy
October 29th, 2006, 03:25 PM
Ergh

Not THAT impressed. It wasn't BAD, just not amazing.

Plus it was hampered by female friends gossiping. GRRRR

ShadowMaat
October 29th, 2006, 06:23 PM
Interesting ep. And hey, no kinky sex! :P However...

I'm a bit iffy about this Jack/Gwen dynamic they're trying to work. I like that Gwen has a boyfriend and I'm not really sure what they're trying to accomplish with Jack's cuddling her. It just... reads weird. It's off. I don't like it.

I'm also not sure what to make of Gwen's using the device at home (again with the abusing of "no tech off the base" rule) and seeing snippets of her past with her boyfriend. I mean, I guess there's a strong emotional resonance, but it didn't really seem to fit with the theme of the ep. I suppose that after the intense "workout" with Jack it was meant to remind her why she loves her boyfriend (whose name I can't remember) but it didn't work very well, IMO.

Can't wait until next week. :D

Chaka's_Mum
October 30th, 2006, 12:06 AM
IIRC, I think she called him 'Rhys' on the phone last night when she was standing him up again.

Poor old Ianto! Is he ever going to do anything more than hover in the background at the Torchwood HQ putting things away and getting the coffees while dressed like a junior Bank Manager? All he had to do this week was disseminate the old 'Splott' joke to a wider audience than South East Wales. Come on - give him something more interesting to do, poor bloke!

Enough of the shippy stuff, already - hints or otherwise. Gwen has a boyfriend with whom she is (supposedly) happy. End of story. Leave it, please. If it gets any worse, that in itself will be enough to put me off watching any more.

Nice to see Gareth 'Blake' Thomas, though.

Definitely another 'don't play with the strange alien devices you don't really understand 'cos it'll only blow up in your face' episode.

I'll give it another go next week. See where it goes. Looked quite interesting from the teaser, anyway. Hope it lives up to that...

Madeleine
October 30th, 2006, 01:30 AM
Last night's ep was fine, but nothing special. The concept, while well executed, wasn't one which grabbed my attention.

I hope Gwen and Rhys(?) stay together, cos their scenes were quite sweet. And I want more of Ianto and Toshiko.

Owen's still slime, just slime with a contempt for those even slimier than himself.

scarimor
October 30th, 2006, 02:17 AM
And just as Gwen began to ground the established members of the team in the last two episodes, now she loses a little of her own. She took home alien tech. The results were benign - beneficial even - but still, she is not immune.

Separate from the government.
Outside the police.
Beyond the United Nations.

Too much of a "good" thing.

(Gwen's new-found excitement with shooting guns was interesting, too.)

The hope must be that Gwen's inherent sense of responsibility will prevent her from sliding too far into that unaccountable place which the others occupied when she first found them. She wasn't responsible for the killer's death, but she still felt it anyway.

Shep'sSocks
October 30th, 2006, 03:23 AM
Since Torchwood isn't even on my local telly's radar atm, can anyone refer me to transcripts?

scarimor
October 30th, 2006, 03:48 AM
Since Torchwood isn't even on my local telly's radar atm, can anyone refer me to transcripts?
Can you get BBC2? It's repeated there later in the week.

The Signal
October 30th, 2006, 01:01 PM
I had a long winded review typed, but it was mostly waffle, so I'll give the bare bones.

Owen, sharp contrast from last week. RTD has something planned for him, I can feel it
Gwen, didnt interest me much, not keen on the story of her home life.
Toshi, not at all interesting, I've yet to see the point to her character.
Jack, nothing new here this week
Ianto, Give him something to do FCOL

The Story was a decent one I have to admit, and the writing wasnt half bad either

Overall, I'd give this an 8.5/10

SoulSpinder
October 30th, 2006, 02:25 PM
I actually thought the ep was pretty good. Unlike the previous weeks, which were meant to ‘jolt’ you as to what the show could be, this was more grounded. It was a decently written, so I was happy with that.

Completely got to agree with the ship hinty things. I’m really, truly, trying to take it with a grain of salt. But this is a long rant for which we won’t get into.

I wanted Ianto to have more to do, too. But next week ‘seems we’ll get it. And that terrifies me. Heh. As if I weren’t worried enough.

This show is both going to ook me deep and break me heart at the same time x.x

Some of the cinematography/editing made me snicker (the running scenes and the like) but, hey, that’s just a minor thing. I was pleased with how Gwen, and especially Owen, transitioned between the memories-visually and emotionally.

Owen… The guy was a murder, but I thought he was going to give him a heart attack! o.o

ShadowMaat
October 30th, 2006, 02:37 PM
Yeah, gotta say, I may hate Owen, but the actor who plays him did a fabulous job this week. Like I said, I actually felt a little sorry for Owen and you could see his terror during that... flashback/echo.

Now, on with the Ianto! :D

Willow'sCat
October 30th, 2006, 03:24 PM
Can you get BBC2? It's repeated there later in the week.LOL! Shep'sSocks is in Australia, so that would be a no. :P

I think there maybe something on OPG, I know one of the Doctor Who sites did transcripts, I guess they would do Torchwood ones. :cool:

ShadowMaat
October 30th, 2006, 03:44 PM
Just watched the Torchwood Declassified for Ghost Whatsis and in the preview for next week...

Was Ianto KISSING the pseudocyberwoman? http://www.pushupstairs.com/images/emoticon/neptune/Animated/Stunned/stunned010.gif

Bad Ianto.

Was he also crying?

Dammit, is it Sunday yet?! *growls off to her corner*

Did I mention Ianto is my second fave character on the show? *wistful sigh*

smurf
October 30th, 2006, 04:27 PM
Guess I'm going to go against the grain, but I have to say "meh" to the whole thing.

Nothing special about the episode/show. Nothing really new. Remove the "edgyness" from the previous week's and you get something akin to a mature kids show.
I'm disappointed that Gwen is starting to come across as fifteen shades of stupid. Last week she accidentally let out a murderous alien - fine... just, after all how was she to know - this week she stood and very deliberately pressed the big button on the alien device. Forget teaching the woman how to fire a gun (I'll get to that), maybe give her a quick 101 on not touching things which are very likely dangerous. Also a police officer who introduces her colleague as a DS and says he's in training? The S stands for Seargant, darling. Lucky she joined Torchwood, cos she wouldn't have got very far in the police force not knowing that. There were others, but those were the most annoying... oh, and the how not to hold a knife thing. :rolleyes:

The script was at times fine and at times very irritating. Some nice lines. Good episode for Owen throughout. So far he is the most interesting character in the show. Poor Jack seems to have lost his way in the interest stakes, but he is very, very, pretty. :D
The irritating bits mostly concern stating the blooming obvious.
Quick example: "You don't want the other half then?" Cut to Jack handing over the other half and stating "This is the other half". Yes I can see that. You handed it to Toshi who is very obviously holding the original in her hand. Who then states that she put it together as if doing so was the hardest thing in the world. :rolleyes: (and should she really have put it together in an unsecured environment when they don't know what it might do?)
There's the not listening to a character who is about to give you an important bit of plot information so you can fill out your allotted 40 minutes, the suddenly out of nowhere "the device does this because it's a (whatever it was, I can't remember what Jack said)", which helpfully allowed time for the pointless ship and shooting section - I had to fast forward this which I'm very glad of, because I saw the obligatory pistol in each hand shot go past. I also fast forwarded the comedy chase scene.

Production/style wise it was better this week. Luckily it was light on the big effects work, because last week I was actually embarassed by the CG (an explaination has since been given to me, and well, you get what you pay for). It still looks great at night, but like The Bill/Casualty the rest of the time. Those CSI:Cardiff shots with the speedramps and whoosh sound effect are really annoying, completely incongrious with the unstylised flat lighting.
Oh, and I had to laugh on the final scene when the camera quite obviously missed its frame and had to pan back to get both characters in shot.

All in all, for fans of the show, it's good news. Because since I don't love it, it's sure to run and run.
**Takes leave muttering about Firefly, Huff, Carnivale, Dead Like Me, Arrested Development...**

Willow'sCat
October 31st, 2006, 01:16 AM
Well, my 2 cents.

I liked the 3rd episode. :)

I still don't like Owen but I think he was better here then in the first two episodes, and I felt he had a motive for his actions that was lacking in the first two. He seems to be finding his feet, both as "person" and character, if that makes any sense? I guess he seemed less one dimensional in this episode.

Tosh=Willow :D I hope we get a "Tosh" episode otherwise she may get left behind with all the techy, geeky stuff. She is one of those characters that could slip through the cracks if the writers don't actively seek to use her.

Gwen, she was a complete moron! Seriously, don't go around touching the glowy/flashy buttons on alien technology should be in the dam handbook. She obviously hasn't read it, I would have given her more credit then that. The first time I can forgive but the second time? :rolleyes: Owen I expected stupid behaviour but not from Gwen. Not PC Gwen. :cool: She did look good with the guns but that doesn't make up for stupid behaviour. Also the relationship "emotional ghosts" didn't sit well with me I thought it was frivolous and unnecessary. Of course it may be a set up for future episodes.

Ianto... next (week) :D

Jack, I did love the gun play, sure it was silly and very staged but guns, Jack and that dam smile! :D :D Well I never said I wasn't shallow. Also I think this is clearly to show us that unlike Doctor Who, these guys need to pack heat! They are dealing with a different kind of world.

I am not sure where they are going with Jack but I am enjoying the ride, and it just makes the thought of Jack appearing in series 29/3 of Doctor Who more exciting *if that is even possible* Although still waiting for him to actually do something, I mean he is so background in many ways at the moment, not as much as Ianto but it seems like he is there but slightly out of reach as a character, is this deliberate or just bad writing? I am not sure, but I hope Jack appears more front and centre in future episodes, especially since one of the selling points of this show IS Capt Jack! Well it is to me. :cool:

Overall a good episode, yes cliched but I am really getting use to cliche since watching SG all these years :P it was certainly better then last weeks and I think a nice lead up to next weeks episode which is looking and sounding great.

SoulSpinder
October 31st, 2006, 07:31 AM
On the matter of them not giving Jack much to do, from the looks of the episode summaries, we're gonna get more Jack week after next. Toshiko's ep comes a lil later. It's hard though, in such a short series because you do have to give each character some time so the viewers can 'know' them.

ep discrips:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Torchwood_episodes

immhotep
October 31st, 2006, 08:02 AM
Hi I only figured out that it wasa spin off from dr. Who when he mentioned abotu needing to see a special doctor someday! am i slow or what lol!

Anyways besides the slowness i can honestly say that this has become one of my favourate to thing to come out of the BBc for years. Its really good. I never watched much Dr. Who, the occasion episode here and there so im really glad that ive watched this spinoff because im enjoying it alot.
I havent watched them on sundays, but i have NTL and have just sat and watchedthe first three all in one go via the on-demand function. They are really good IMO.
The first thing is that i liked is that its earth based, its not Dr. who in the tardis popping accross the universe. The fact that they didnt choose some major city like alot of shows has worked really well. The welsh accents and the city is quite charming to see in a scifi show, and IMO it works really well.
The premise that there is a temporal spacial rift running through the centre of cardiff while completely bizare does run allong the same lines as most of the wackyness of dr. who..i never understood what was happening or why in Dr. who, probebly because i never watched it that often. But if you take the T/S rift with the pinch of Imagination laden salt then the results of it make for good Tv and good storylines.
The best plot so far has bene in the third episode, the emotions and past/present visions device is really quite a cool storyline, and again with a pinch of salt even the energy of emotions being transfered in to sensory perceptions makes sense scientifically.

Now for the Characters.
Gwen is actually not my favourate character but she isnt bad. While yes she comes accross ditsy and slow on the uptake i think she has potential. Its only 3 episodes in and theres been character developement, which is quite promising. I think having the police background and then being quite ditsy on the first days can come accross as slightly agrevating. but in her defence she has just found out about a massive world changing thing, even though she hasnt dealt with that on screen, which is a bit strange. I think a good emotional breakdown or revelation needs to happen for her to come to terms with things and ya know become responsible and an effective member of the team.
I really like the team aspect of the show also, while not quite SG1, there is definte hints of what the early sg1 teamyness felt like. Over time i think that bond shoudl be explored and developed because i do actually like most of the characters and i hope they gel and do things that save the planet in a nice and non-ditsy way in the future.

Now for the oldersTeam members, lets start with Jack; i dont actually know if it like him atall yet. While yes he seems charming adn funny and smart and immortal theres also this cheesy slimeball side that's creeped in, especially with that Gun scene. I think if he trying to be james bond and Dr. Who at the same time, somethings going to go wrong. Pick 1 British superhero not 2 is all i say. I prefer the DW to JB, but he does have a certain JB classyness that goes along with the slime. I hope the character becomes more charismatic in his own way, once again the characters have potential and thats great because it means they can grow and we can watch them grow.
Now for Owen; he looks, sounds and acts like a guy who drives a white van and goes down the pub to watch the footy. How he got in to torchwood i want to know because at the moment he doesnt seem to have any decent qualities atall that would prepare him for that job. At least Gwen seems to have some detective skills not forgetting stamina, that girl can run! But he honestly seems like theres nothing about him thats worthwhile. i hope im wrong but he seems like the character that has to grow the most, but will end up growing the least. The girl from the first episode IMO would have been better, she had weird principles but had skills, and lets face it that job you need to be a little weird..

Toshi is a good secondary character, she doesnt get in the way, but shes does a good job. She got skills and will probley become a really good character. She might not do things stupid and blwo stuff up but i think that we might have a regular that will grow adequitely and hopefully contrinbute well to the ensemble of the team in missions etc

Ianto; i think hes going to be the traitorous wretch that Gwen will have to kill to save the team..it happens in most Tv series and i think that hes going to be the guy. Hesquite bland, but also a little charming, if they gave him more to do then im sure hell be an addition, either as a recuring bad guy or as a recuring lamppost putting things in the safe. (why does he have the keys to the safe?? i bet hes their super android defence or something)

Overall torchwood seem to have a great deal of promise and ill defintly be keeping and eye on this one. ive never watched dr. who but im hoping that ill be able to get in to this and contribute my opinions of it, at the moment my opinion is that it is good, and optimistically promising to be better.

Immhotep

Matt G
October 31st, 2006, 09:07 AM
1. Liked Owen better this time out, maybe his experience of Lizzie might change him for the better.

2. It's ironic that Jack says Gwen's normalness is needed for Torchwood, yet she's liable to lose it by getting in too deep.

3. Thought the shooting range scene was coolish but filler.

Overall, better than last week's ep, this might be a solid show after all! :)

The Signal
October 31st, 2006, 09:20 AM
Gwen, she was a complete moron! Seriously, don't go around touching the glowy/flashy buttons on alien technology should be in the dam handbook. She obviously hasn't read it, I would have given her more credit then that. The first time I can forgive but the second time? :rolleyes: Owen I expected stupid behaviour but not from Gwen.

I got the impression that they were drawn to it myself, like they couldnt control themselves, dunno if anyone else did.

Pitry
October 31st, 2006, 10:19 AM
Fantastic episode! Much better than sex crazed aliens.

I'll join in the More Ianto department. Give us Ianto or give us... more Ianto. Please? ;)

Gwen. Okay, she was stupid in this episode, granted, but I actually liked that she took the device home. No one's immuned, she shoudln't be the perfect character after we've seen everyone else misusing technology. Hope it comes and backfires on her, tho (well, it did, sort of. ).

Owen... I did like him this episode. The actor definitely did a good job.

As for Jack not beign invovled... can teh show really be fmo Jack's POV/ centring too much about Jack? Soon you'll end up losing all the mystery. A part of what I enjoy about the Doctor so much is the way they manage to keep an air of mystery around him, even after everything. Keeping Jack's character development through the eyes of the rest of the character seems to me to be the better option.

Toshi is lovely. I hope they start giving her more to do ;)

The one thing I didn't like... the emphasis on how "fun" it is to fire a gun. The pseudo-moral bits in the end about actually shooting people didn't make the bad taste in my mouth disappear. Sorry, guns aren't sexy.

ShadowMaat
October 31st, 2006, 10:24 AM
I can see the gun thing coming back to haunt her later. In fact, I kind of expected it within the ep, but it wound up being a knife instead.

And Pitry, should that be "Give us Ianto or give us nekkid Ianto"?? :D

scarimor
October 31st, 2006, 11:01 AM
I got the impression that they were drawn to it myself, like they couldnt control themselves, dunno if anyone else did.
Deliberately ambiguous, imo.

Pitry
October 31st, 2006, 12:09 PM
I can see the gun thing coming back to haunt her later. In fact, I kind of expected it within the ep, but it wound up being a knife instead.

And Pitry, should that be "Give us Ianto or give us nekkid Ianto"?? :D

LoL ;) Let us start with more Ianto, and progress from there *whistles innocently*

As for the gun - I hope so. The nwe Doctor Who writing team has made a terrific job in the show's two seasons of keeping the humanity of the show. Of keepign the "violence isn't cool" theme. It is so rare to run into this attitude these days... I'd be extremely disappointed if the same people failed on their spin-off with that. (Won't be the first time a spin off loses the strong moral base of the mother show, tho. *cough Atlantis cough*)

Willow'sCat
October 31st, 2006, 03:19 PM
I got the impression that they were drawn to it myself, like they couldnt control themselves, dunno if anyone else did.
So Gwen and Owen are weak? Maybe, I just thought Jack touched it, and Tosh must have examined it and they didn't set it off. :S

On the guns, I don't like guns, and Doctor Who never used them, and until the messy Tara must die Buffy never used them, but of course Buffy had her slayer strength, and The Doctor has his... well not sure how he manages to get out of these situations *ooh 3/Jon did use some crazy martial arts* :P but DW is a kids show, you do know that? You can't have the hero of a kids show killing people every episode. It started in the 60s, and he was an old man it would have looked really bad. :S In fact isn't the whole gun thing the reason they brought in U.N.I.T in the 70s? I thought it was, but maybe not.

ShadowMaat
October 31st, 2006, 03:22 PM
I don't think it's a matter of pushing buttons, I think the device more or less activates itself. Although I could be wrong. The first time it looked like Gwen might have pushed a button, but the other times... *shrug*

CatGoddess
October 31st, 2006, 03:36 PM
Random question on the guns: Wouldn't Gwen have learned how to use a gun as part of her police training? Do cops in the UK not routinely carry guns? (Cops in the US do.) My understanding is that the UK has stricter gun control laws than the US does.

Tosh definitely reminded me of Willow, but she also reminded me of Oracle from Birds of Prey - the person back at the base who has all the information at her fingertips and directs the people in the field. Both Willow and Oracle were well developed in their respective shows, so hopefully the same will be true of Tosh.

As for a Jack/Gwen ship, I don't like the idea. Jack will shag anything with a pulse, but he doesn't seem the type for a long-term relationship, and if he just shags her and walks away - well, there's a reason that it's unwise to date coworkers. But I am wondering if Gwen and her boyfriend might break up. Lots of couples break up or get divorced when one partner has a highly demanding job, and Gwen's boyfriend already seems unhappy with her demanding job at Torchwood.

ShadowMaat
October 31st, 2006, 03:42 PM
Random question on the guns: Wouldn't Gwen have learned how to use a gun as part of her police training? Do cops in the UK not routinely carry guns? (Cops in the US do.) My understanding is that the UK has stricter gun control laws than the US does.
From what I've heard on other boards it isn't at all unusual that Gwen wouldn't have any familiarity with guns as they aren't as big a deal/issue in the UK as they are in the US. Someone even said that gun-related deaths are uncommon enough to be big news.

scarimor
October 31st, 2006, 03:44 PM
Random question on the guns: Wouldn't Gwen have learned how to use a gun as part of her police training? Do cops in the UK not routinely carry guns?
No, they don't. Only the trained firearms units are issued with firearms. I have never seen a police officer in the flesh carrying a gun (though I expect I would if I went to an airport).

scarimor
October 31st, 2006, 03:47 PM
From what I've heard on other boards it isn't at all unusual that Gwen wouldn't have any familiarity with guns as they aren't as big a deal/issue in the UK as they are in the US. Someone even said that gun-related deaths are uncommon enough to be big news.
They are. And murder by any method is a big deal. The population is c. 60 million and the average murder rate is around the 600 per anum mark (well until recently anyway - it might have gone up after Shipman's spree came to light. One man's work can be enough to change the figures).

Willow'sCat
October 31st, 2006, 03:50 PM
On Doctor Who and guns, well weapons. K-9 killed, well he was defending but he still took a life with a weapon. I think it was an alien but still. Also Leela had a big knife, she never used it on screen but she wanted to. :cool:

Admiral Mappalazarou
October 31st, 2006, 08:14 PM
spoiler for 104 Cybermen yay! :)

Chaka's_Mum
November 1st, 2006, 12:33 AM
Random question on the guns: Wouldn't Gwen have learned how to use a gun as part of her police training? Do cops in the UK not routinely carry guns? (Cops in the US do.) My understanding is that the UK has stricter gun control laws than the US does.

As ShadowMaat and Scarimor have said - the Police in the UK do not carry guns and aren't trained to use them unless they are specifically joining an armed unit - which (I think, but don't quote me on this!) means they have to make a formal application and receive a recommendation by a senior officer to prove they are doing it for the right reasons (i.e. it's not 'wannabe Miami Vice' syndrome) - they have to have been in the service for quite some time, too before they can even think about applying. I think they also have to undergo a full evaluation to make sure they are psychologically up to the job, too; not to mention all the continual refresher training they need to go through just to keep their gun certificates - every six months, I think it is. Depending on how long it's been since she passed out of training college, the chances are that Gwen has never even seen a gun while on duty, much less handled one. Cardiff doesn't currently have a gun problem - at least, not a notable one. I shouldn't be surprised if a lot of the young morons who seem to need accessories to look grown up are tooled up with blades; but they haven't graduated to ballistics yet. Thank God.

But then, given how she handled that knife once she'd confiscated it from Bad Eddie, perhaps that's just as well Gwen was never trained to use a gun...


Tosh definitely reminded me of Willow, but she also reminded me of Oracle from Birds of Prey - the person back at the base who has all the information at her fingertips and directs the people in the field. Both Willow and Oracle were well developed in their respective shows, so hopefully the same will be true of Tosh.

Agree. I'm getting a bit bored with all the Gwen and Owen stuff. Come on - there are more people in the team; lets see them in action! And that includes the Junior Bank Manager/Ianto.


As for a Jack/Gwen ship, I don't like the idea. Jack will shag anything with a pulse, but he doesn't seem the type for a long-term relationship, and if he just shags her and walks away - well, there's a reason that it's unwise to date coworkers. But I am wondering if Gwen and her boyfriend might break up. Lots of couples break up or get divorced when one partner has a highly demanding job, and Gwen's boyfriend already seems unhappy with her demanding job at Torchwood.

I can see that coming too - there's only so many times that Rhys (I think that's his name!) is going to put up with being stood up all the time like this and have the 'I've got to work late but can't tell you what I'm doing' excuse over and over again. Highly demanding or not, he's being kept in the dark about the late nights. Sooner or later he's going to wonder just what it is that's keeping Gwen out so late; put two and two together and make five (or possibly four if this Gwen/Jack nonsense keeps up).

I probably sound like a stuck record, but I'm going to say it anyway:
Enough with the Ship already!!!

scarimor
November 1st, 2006, 01:43 AM
I probably sound like a stuck record, but I'm going to say it anyway:
Enough with the Ship already!!!
I'll join you in that groove.

The Signal
November 1st, 2006, 08:58 AM
So Gwen and Owen are weak? Maybe, I just thought Jack touched it, and Tosh must have examined it and they didn't set it off. :S

It only seemed to work in certain situations (under the bridge etc).

As for the guns, our police don't carry guns because its much harder to buy them here than it is in the UK. I've seen armed police in an airport though, (and they certainly aren't packing hand guns, so it's damn intimidating I can tell you), so I was impressed that RTD did do some sort of training for Gwen, as it would have been unrealistic for her to just automatically know her way around guns.

Othere
November 1st, 2006, 11:54 AM
Random question on the guns: Wouldn't Gwen have learned how to use a gun as part of her police training? Do cops in the UK not routinely carry guns? (Cops in the US do.) My understanding is that the UK has stricter gun control laws than the US does.

The police force in the uk do not carry guns and nor do they wish to. There is an armed unit within the force and there is a strict process in order to be accepted.

According to the bbc (and this info is a little out of date): In 2001-02, there were some 22,300 firearms offences, a rise of almost a third on the previous year. The number of people killed by firearms was 23.

We flew to Paris on the morning of the alleged planned terror attacks this year and there were armed police even at Coventry International Shed.

Gun crime is actually affecting the applications of prospective students to universities in the Midlands. A lot of the recent gun-related crime has happened in cities like Birmingham and Nottingham. However irregular it actually is, it is being perceived by undergrads as a place that isn't as safe to in even if it isn't really the case.

As for the gun training, I thought it was all a little ghetto style gun in one hand, arms length etc...and then the Lara-Croft-two-guns thing...thats when I turned off and went to bed :)

Othere
November 1st, 2006, 12:00 PM
It only seemed to work in certain situations (under the bridge etc).

As for the guns, our police don't carry guns because its much harder to buy them here than it is in the UK. I've armed police in an airport though, (and they certainly aren't packing hand guns, so it's damn intimidating I can tell you), so I was impressed that RTD did do some sort of training for Gwen, as it would have been unrealistic for her to just automatically know her way around guns.

I dont know that it is so much that police can't afford to buy it - they would have a source like the military have to supply them with the necessary equipment.

The Signal
November 1st, 2006, 12:39 PM
I dont know that it is so much that police can't afford to buy it - they would have a source like the military have to supply them with the necessary equipment.

I meant the its harder for the general public ;) Because its harder to get guns, theres less need for armed police. Sorry I wasnt clear :o

CatGoddess
November 1st, 2006, 06:02 PM
I meant the its harder for the general public ;) Because its harder to get guns, theres less need for armed police. Sorry I wasnt clear :o

Okay, I think I understand the gun situation a little better now.

It's relatively easy to get a gun in the US. I could probably walk into a store tomorrow and buy one. You have to pass a criminal background check and maybe go through a waiting period, a psychological evaluation, and/or some training (the rules vary state by state).

I myself do not own a gun and never will. Very few civilians in the US carry firearms, with the possible exception of hunting weapons. It's ill advised. A home intruder or other attacker could easily turn your firearm against you. Also, children can get into trouble with their parents' guns; look at Jack O'Neill's son in the Stargate universe.

The right to bear arms is constitutionally protected (2nd Amendment - Bill of Rights).

So, the cops must be armed. Police in the US routinely carry handguns, even in quiet suburban areas such as where I live. I work in Lower Manhattan, and there are always police officers with machine guns (!) in the area of the New York Stock Exchange. Armed officers ride the subways.

But I understand better now, why firearms training would not be part of Gwen's routine police training.

*packs bags and moves to the UK* :weir:

ShadowMaat
November 1st, 2006, 07:07 PM
I wanted to learn how to use a gun, just... in case? My dad was going to give me lessons but we never quite got around to it. *sigh* I still think it'd be handy to know, though. One of those "never use in a million years" skills that comes in handy on that millionth time.

Shep'sSocks
November 2nd, 2006, 12:12 AM
Most of the stuff I've read on policing in the UK notes that in general, the police themselves do not want to be armed outside of the specialist units. In Australia, the police are routinely armed but we also have strict gun controls.

scarimor
November 2nd, 2006, 12:40 AM
What do people make of the way that gun training scene played out? At the beginning, it looked to me like it was a quite serious matter, in that he was teaching Gwen to respect a firearm. By the end, it looked to me like they were playing.

scarimor
November 2nd, 2006, 12:52 AM
I don't think it's a matter of pushing buttons, I think the device more or less activates itself. Although I could be wrong. The first time it looked like Gwen might have pushed a button, but the other times... *shrug*
They did talk about pushing a button after the first time it activated. Why she pushed it, or whether it activated itself when a ghostly emotion was around, or whether it drew the holder to activate it when a ghostly emotion was around - it seemed like that was being withheld. I get the impression that deliberate ambiguity is something of a theme for the series: e.g. how far did Owen get when he used the alien pheremones, is Gwen comfortable with weapons (guns - yes? knives - no?).

BC - 303
November 2nd, 2006, 02:21 AM
London police carry guns, but then again there is a constant terror alert here.
I've seen them, normally two police men walking around, each with a pistol, one normally with a sub machine gun, MP-5 perhaps.
It is scary and a recent addition.

Shep'sSocks
November 2nd, 2006, 02:30 AM
London police carry guns, but then again there is a constant terror alert here.
I've seen them, normally two police men walking around, each with a pistol, one normally with a sub machine gun, MP-5 perhaps.
It is scary and a recent addition.

Are you referring to the City of London police or The Met? I don't think either are armed as a matter of course but armed officers have been deployed in various areas. Not all carry weapons.

Darkstar
November 2nd, 2006, 02:45 AM
I wished I could have cheered "chicks with guns" but the seriously unfunny way in which Gwen the character was potrayed as learning to use a gun then have a little fun at the end of the scene is a remiscant echo of how people who may have never had a gun grow to like them and thus feel comfortable using them and don't see a problem....guns kill....the end, Tasers stun without killing, and other methods harm and stun but guns are made to kill...but then agin it's how you use the gun and you're respect for the power of a firearm being trained to shoot a criminals in the leg and not pepper a criminal by ten police officers with full auto MP5's in the chest and head.

I personally liked the third episode of this new series, it was so much better than the second episode about sex, if I never see that episode again I can die an old man happy, but yeah it was better and aside from certain parts of the pilot episode this was the best yet.....althought it's still early days yet so time will tell....but I can't wait for the cyber chick this sunday...that's when guns would come in handy......but as we all know, guns can't harm cybermen as seen in Doctor Who!!! :eek:

pbellosom
November 2nd, 2006, 03:44 AM
London police carry guns, but then again there is a constant terror alert here.
I've seen them, normally two police men walking around, each with a pistol, one normally with a sub machine gun, MP-5 perhaps.
It is scary and a recent addition.

Do they? I haven't seen any.

scarimor
November 2nd, 2006, 04:10 AM
London police carry guns, but then again there is a constant terror alert here.
I've seen them, normally two police men walking around, each with a pistol, one normally with a sub machine gun, MP-5 perhaps.
It is scary and a recent addition.


Are you referring to the City of London police or The Met? I don't think either are armed as a matter of course but armed officers have been deployed in various areas. Not all carry weapons.


Do they? I haven't seen any.
CO19 ? (formerly SO19)

Othere
November 2nd, 2006, 05:56 AM
London police carry guns, but then again there is a constant terror alert here.
I've seen them, normally two police men walking around, each with a pistol, one normally with a sub machine gun, MP-5 perhaps.
It is scary and a recent addition.

It's not restricted to London, they are at all major (and also the sheds) uk airports these days and other important or high risk events - as they should be. They've been around for a while now, not just thanks to the recent homegrown terrorist threats. I dont think they're scary, it's just indicative of the world at large, sign of the times and all that.
And actually I think despite the recent events they keep quite a low profile, you dont always notice them...which isn't necessarily a bad thing :)

immhotep
November 2nd, 2006, 07:15 AM
Yeah even at norwich train station i have seen them deployed. An norwich is in the middle of nowhere...! there is nothing worth bombin over in this region..oh wait no we do have alot of airbase's ...

Chaka's_Mum
November 3rd, 2006, 12:03 AM
What do people make of the way that gun training scene played out? At the beginning, it looked to me like it was a quite serious matter, in that he was teaching Gwen to respect a firearm. By the end, it looked to me like they were playing.

It did, rather, didn't it? All that popping off of weaponry got a bit silly towards the end, particularly all the Lara Croft stuff at the end of the sequence (nice reference, Othere). I must admit that I got bored with that bit and transferred my attention to the computer screen instead. Not because of the guns so much as the 'Gwen And Jack Get Very Very Very Close' bit. Yuck. I've made my views clear in big, red, bold type so I won't state them again. Despite the fact that I really, really want to.

It was a bit like Dirty Dancing - only with weapons.

scarimor
November 3rd, 2006, 12:54 AM
...
It was a bit like Dirty Dancing - only with weapons.
Good way to describe it. And the classic 'man gets close to woman and touches her while teaching her to shoot gun/bow / use tennis raquet' scene followed by whooping and popping off weaponry at the end made me wonder whether the writer has put it in there to undermine it. Especially when it's juxtaposed with scenes of Gwen reminding herself of loving moments with her husband and going back back to him. Whether it was an indication of shippy stuff to come (ack) or whether it was put there to get it out of the system - ah, too many whethers. I'm probably over-thinking it :p

ETA: or perhaps I'm not over-thinking this whole ambiguity thing after all - the two chaps we chatted with who previously said they didn't think Owen went through with shagging the couple in the first ep because "he couldn't possibly want to shag a man" (their reason - he doesn't look gay, he doesn't dress well enough :D) now say after seeing this episode that they've changed their minds. Now he's touchy-feely enough, apparently :D.

[note: I've learned that this did he/didn't he and why is something some people take quite personally, so I hope no one will take offence by my reference to it. If you happen to think Owen did/didn't shag the couple or is/isn't straight/bi/gay, please don't assume I'm talking about you and your reasons for interpreting it that way when I describe someone else's interpretation and their reasons. Especially if you haven't given your opinion yet; but even if you have.]

Chaka's_Mum
November 3rd, 2006, 05:00 AM
Good way to describe it. And the classic 'man gets close to woman and touches her while teaching her to shoot gun/bow / use tennis raquet' scene followed by whooping and popping off weaponry at the end made me wonder whether the writer has put it in there to undermine it. Especially when it's juxtaposed with scenes of Gwen reminding herself of loving moments with her husband and going back back to him. Whether it was an indication of shippy stuff to come (ack) or whether it was put there to get it out of the system - ah, too many whethers. I'm probably over-thinking it :p

I hope it was meant to undermine it/get it out of the system - the very thought of ship between two lead characters in only three episodes of the first season of a new show is specially designed to make me watch something else. Which is a shame, because I'd like to give this a chance given that it's home grown. Unfortunately, that final scene on the Barrage doesn't bode particularly well in that respect, unless Jack is being fraternal/patrician and she's treating it the same way, of course. Please.

Trouble is, the way the scene is described above does give it a rather Freudian tinge that could subliminally point somewhere that I entirely don't want to think about. I suspect, however, that I'm over-thinking it, too!

At least, I hope I am...

scarimor
November 3rd, 2006, 05:18 AM
I hope it was meant to undermine it/get it out of the system - the very thought of ship between two lead characters in only three episodes of the first season of a new show is specially designed to make me watch something else. Which is a shame, because I'd like to give this a chance given that it's home grown. Unfortunately, that final scene on the Barrage doesn't bode particularly well in that respect, unless Jack is being fraternal/patrician and she's treating it the same way, of course. Please.
I could handle that kind of relationship too. Although I don't want to see Jack's and Gwen's relationship over-shadow that with the other characters. What about Gwen and the others? We definitely need more Toshi anyway, imo.


Trouble is, the way the scene is described above does give it a rather Freudian tinge that could subliminally point somewhere that I entirely don't want to think about. I suspect, however, that I'm over-thinking it, too!

At least, I hope I am...
We need to find a de-think clinic ;)

Catysg1
November 3rd, 2006, 08:23 AM
I missed the first 2 episodes but I watched the 3rd one about the alien device/visions and I thought it was great . Love the team and Jack is Yummy :)

Will comment more Once I saw more episodes . :)

Caty :)

Cam_Mitchell
November 4th, 2006, 12:45 AM
This was an amazing 2 episodes to beggin the series with, did anyone else watch them


Thoughts?

--Gaz--

The Signal
November 4th, 2006, 07:29 AM
Come to the episode discussion threads :)

http://forum.gateworld.net/showthread.php?t=36862 - Beware of Spoilers for all aired episodes.

orii7
November 4th, 2006, 07:49 PM
I havent seen any episodes but read synopsis from The Doctor Who Reference Guide and they sound awsome! I can't wai for "Cyberwoman" I saw a picture of her on a website about RTD (yeah I did go to one, I was looking for a picture to use to make in fun of him! Ha!) and thought it was too....revealing...a bit.

There are parts that make me go "oh my zarquon, too close! too tight! too small! eeeewww! Why does she still have those on? I thought they would cut...." I think I will go that far.

But I hope to see what will happen to her and if The Doctor makes an appearence or if there would be a Doctor Who episode that is a sequal to the Torchwood series and have cpt. jack come back and rejoin the TARDIS

Admiral Mappalazarou
November 4th, 2006, 11:36 PM
go thee link above thy friend.

cvife
November 5th, 2006, 02:58 PM
wow brilliant episode, easily the best of the series, great acting, just how the cybermen should be, fantastic.

scarimor
November 5th, 2006, 03:05 PM
Tonight's the best so far.

discodiva
November 5th, 2006, 03:09 PM
Excellent!......really really really enjoyed that....:D


Deeds xx

jonno
November 5th, 2006, 03:20 PM
Indeed. Very good - surprisingly ... thought provoking? Poor chap.

ShadowMaat
November 5th, 2006, 07:48 PM
Poor, poor Ianto. Poor, STUPID Ianto. :(

Definitely the best ep of the lot, not that there are many to compare it too. The DW trait of humanizing the monsters continues brilliantly. And more of those murky shades of gray, too.

Gareth did a phenomenal job in this ep. Some of the shine has come off Ianto, now, but he's still my second fave character. I'm amazed he wasn't brainwiped and tossed out with the trash, though.

Toresica
November 5th, 2006, 08:01 PM
Whether it was an indication of shippy stuff to come (ack) or whether it was put there to get it out of the system - ah, too many whethers. I'm probably over-thinking it :p
The way I saw it, it was just to again illustrate Jack's character - the fact that, as we know from Doctor Who, he's very sensual/flirtatious.


If it was shippy stuff, there would have been fewer scenes of her with her boyfriend. :p

Madeleine
November 5th, 2006, 10:54 PM
Definitely the best so far.

Ianto wasn't what he seemed at all. He seemed very cerebral, very contained in the first three eps, and I know that we hardly saw him but still...

It was such a surprise to see him being so love-is-blind BLIND STUPID. Poor chap, I can understand how his cyber-fiancee conned him into helping her, but not why he didn't tell the others. If they'd have met Lisa while she was still helpless and seemingly human in her personality, I think they might have seen things differently and tried to help him. As it was, they came into the situation after things had gone south, when they had no choices.

Poor chap, but what an idiot.

Who's going to clean up the mess of the dead guy and the dead pizza girl? Ianto has enough conscience to know it's his fault and *feel* that it's his fault; now his Lisa is dead will he go numb and find it easier to dispose of those bodies, or will he find it makes him too sick?

I don't even know if Ianto is in future eps. I'd like him to be for *him*, but I don't see how he can maintain his position after what he did, and the show will lose credibility if they don't find a really good excuse. (Mind you, we're talking about a show with a pterosaur attacking a half woman half robot, so I can cope with a little bit of unrealistic employment ettiquette.)

Chaka's_Mum
November 6th, 2006, 12:10 AM
Hmm. Still waters run deep, they say; and Ianto proved that last night in spades!

I have to admit that I was torn between feeling incredibly sorry for him and wanting to give him a good hard thwack.

I guess we will never really know at what point Lisa completely became Cyber-Lisa, or even whether she was still Lisa from the outset. Part of me wonders whether she really was still in there - or whether the Cyber-part of her was simply telling Ianto what he wanted to hear so he would continue to keep her alive and find a way of healing her so it could step in and continue the 'upgrade'. That was certainly Jack's assessment of it, anyway; and I find myself agreeing with him, particularly after that poor delivery girl was still wibbling on about upgrades once she had her unwanted new brain.

I am also amazed that he's not been 'wiped' and returned to civilian life for making such a right royal mess; but then, with all that 'I clean up your crap while you lot go out and shoot lots of guns and stuff and don't get a word of thanks for it' followed by the 'have you ever been in love' stuff, perhaps Jack understands where he's coming from and is prepared to cut him a bit of slack. Who knows? Either way, he's back on bin-bag duty again in the final scene, and will probably remain so for some considerable time after that little escapade.

Isn't Owen a creep, by the way? Hiding in a mortuary refrigerator with Gwen while a Cyber-woman searches for them, and he snogs her (and what a snog it was!)? Then he follows it up with the feeblest, crappiest, most clichéd excuse of all time.:P

As for Jack giving Ianto the kiss of life, he needs to go back on the First Aid course. If you don't get their head back properly, all you do is blow air into their stomachs, you know!

A fabulous rollercoaster ride. I loved it.

scarimor
November 6th, 2006, 01:21 AM
I guess we will never really know at what point Lisa completely became Cyber-Lisa, or even whether she was still Lisa from the outset. Part of me wonders whether she really was still in there - or whether the Cyber-part of her was simply telling Ianto what he wanted to hear so he would continue to keep her alive and find a way of healing her so it could step in and continue the 'upgrade'. That was certainly Jack's assessment of it, anyway; and I find myself agreeing with him, particularly after that poor delivery girl was still wibbling on about upgrades once she had her unwanted new brain.
That was the clincher for me - "we can upgrade together". It seemed that she was still seeing the human aspect of her (and by extension Ianto) as the defective part that needed fixing, i.e. upgrading.


And Ianto still couldn't bring himself to stop her. Even after she's killed-by-upgrade the professor, tried to 'upgrade' Gwen, killed Jack twice, sliced open a delivery woman's head to use as a brain carcass... he still can't bump her off.


Isn't Owen a creep, by the way? Hiding in a mortuary refrigerator with Gwen while a Cyber-woman searches for them, and he snogs her (and what a snog it was!)? Then he follows it up with the feeblest, crappiest, most clichéd excuse of all time.:P
snog, snog, recurring motif, snog snog :p


As for Jack giving Ianto the kiss of life, he needs to go back on the First Aid course. If you don't get their head back properly, all you do is blow air into their stomachs, you know!
It didn't look like the "kiss of life", did it? It looked more like the kiss of his life ;) - something to do with Jack's immortality, perhaps? He can breathe a little into the dying?

Willow'sCat
November 6th, 2006, 01:32 AM
Best episode yet. ;)



I have to admit that I was torn between feeling incredibly sorry for him and wanting to give him a good hard thwack.You as well hey? ;) I did feel sorry for him but it was so creepy to think of him still loving that thing. I guess love it blind and stupid.


Isn't Owen a creep, by the way? Hiding in a mortuary refrigerator with Gwen while a Cyber-woman searches for them, and he snogs her (and what a snog it was!)? Then he follows it up with the feeblest, crappiest, most clichéd excuse of all time.Oh I think this is going to be interesting.

As for Jack giving Ianto the kiss of life, he needs to go back on the First Aid course. If you don't get their head back properly, all you do is blow air into their stomachs, you knowI got the impression that he was giving him his life *force* or whatever it is that makes Jack now immortal. Kind of like the whole Doctor/Rose thing *kiss* in PotW. I don't think it was meant to be CPR or anything. :P

I don't have a problem with how Ianto was shown in this, it is obvious they all, even Tosh I am sure, have massive problems. None of them are the full picnic basket, and really after what they have been through how could they be?

It looks like they were at the front so to speak when Canary Wharf happened, you can't go through that and be normal. As long as they don't go too far the other way and just pretend it all never happened I will be fine with seeing Ianto back to the coffee guy. ;)

I have to say I LOVED Jack in this, he was there, so far I felt he was kind of just making up the numbers but here he was brilliant, and I didn't even mind the threats of violence towards Ianto. He had to do what he had to do and remember The Doctor in Army of Ghosts actually did take the lives of human/Cybermen (at Torchwood when they were only wearing the ear pieces, he used the sonic screwdriver on one and also didn't really protest that much when *was it Yvonne?* took the ear piece out) so Jack is actually not that bad in my book.

Next week looks really interesting... do we get to see some of Jack's past? ;)

ShadowMaat
November 6th, 2006, 04:33 AM
I can sort of understand Ianto's faulty logic in not telling the others- as he said himself, their job is to DESTROY alien incursions, and deep down he probably knew there was no saving her. Or at least he knew that would be the team's reaction. They didn't know her, they wouldn't care; all they'd see is a monster, not the woman behind it. But when she killed the doctor (small d) and he decided to cover it up, that's where things started to go wrong.

Do you think there's a chance Ianto ever would have said anything if anyone had ever asked? That was another point he made (at least to Jack), "You never asked about me." Maybe it's showing that Jack's hands-off policy might not always be fore the best.

I also want to know what Ianto knows about Jack to call him the "worst monster of all." There has to be more to it than the Lisa situation.

Madeleine
November 6th, 2006, 04:47 AM
I also want to know what Ianto knows about Jack to call him the "worst monster of all." There has to be more to it than the Lisa situation.

Yeah, he said that twice, and no one responded directly to it.

I wonder where Jack himself would fit into the Torchwood philosophy. Does anyone senior to him know his origins? (Is anyone senior to him, or are the various Torchwoods independent franchises?) Given that the institute was inagurated to protect Britain against, amongst other things, The Doctor, I doubt there'd be much room for calling *any* futuristic time traveller 'Friend'.

Might Ianto know that Jack isn't from thier time? I reckon he knows *something* about Jack that we don't.

There's still the matter of the Hole In Jack's Mind that we found out about in The Empty Child. He seemed so un-dark then: he was clearly shady and we didn't really know what side he was on, but somehow as a cheerful but dodgy fella in the 1940s he was a lot less dark than the 'Good Guy' Jack we now have. I'm looking forward to finding what that's about, anyway.

ShadowMaat
November 6th, 2006, 05:57 AM
One of the things that bothered me about this ep was that there was no moment of realization for Ianto. I can see wanting to keep the characters morally ambiguous and all, but... this nags at me. As far as Ianto is concerned, he was still fully right in everything he did... and Jack was still wrong in everything he did. It's like there was a scene missing or something because as it stands, having someone angry and resentful (and slightly unbalanced) on your team doesn't make a whole lotta sense. I can't understand why Jack kept him on and I can't understand why Ianto would still want to be part of Jack's team. The nods at the end were laughable. What were they supposed to mean? All is forgiven? I've got my eye on you? Is this my cue to enter the scene? I can't see how everything could go back to normal after something like that and I get the feeling there won't be a lot of follow-up in the next ep.

scarimor
November 6th, 2006, 06:02 AM
What is Torchwood's chain of command? Who put Jack in charge of a team? What his is "rank", if he has any? By what authority does he give orders to the others? What assumption do they (especially newcomer Gwen) make about his right to give them orders? How does Gwen know Jack has a mandate? Does he have a mandate anyway?

Who's in charge of this whole kaboodle and (aside from Queen Victoria) who puts/keeps people there?

GateGipsy
November 6th, 2006, 06:30 AM
One of the things that bothered me about this ep was that there was no moment of realization for Ianto. I can see wanting to keep the characters morally ambiguous and all, but... this nags at me. As far as Ianto is concerned, he was still fully right in everything he did... and Jack was still wrong in everything he did. It's like there was a scene missing or something because as it stands, having someone angry and resentful (and slightly unbalanced) on your team doesn't make a whole lotta sense. I can't understand why Jack kept him on and I can't understand why Ianto would still want to be part of Jack's team. The nods at the end were laughable. What were they supposed to mean? All is forgiven? I've got my eye on you? Is this my cue to enter the scene? I can't see how everything could go back to normal after something like that and I get the feeling there won't be a lot of follow-up in the next ep.

I came in here to say pretty much the same thing but you beat me to it!

This was such an open ended episode. Why was Ianto so convinced that Jack could save her? If he was so utterly convinced that Jack could save her, why didn't he go to her in the first place? And with Ianto clearly suffering from a rather bad case of post traumatic stress syndrome, shouldn't Jack have got him help at the end of the episode?

I really hope that the reason we're left with all these questions is because that was a deliberate plot device for a future episode!

The Signal
November 6th, 2006, 08:00 AM
Ianto, Give him something to do FCOL


Yup, that'll do it....

A great episode last night, with John and Gareth both on top form as Jack and Ianto. Jack showed what he's really made of, and how far he will go to keep people safe. I can say with almost compelte certainty that if it had been before The Parting Of The Ways, he would have helped.

Ianto is such a tragedy, he was taken for granted by the rest of the team, damn near ignored, and this episode shows the consequences of that. He was doing something that he knew was wrong, but for all the right reasons, but because he was ignored no one saw it coming, so no one found out until it all went wrong, which sadly for Ianto and Lisa, meant the woman he loved had to die.

Would Jack have shot Ianto? In a heartbeat. Would Ianto have shot Jack? No. I think even though he did it for love, he knew that he couldn't get what he wanted, and that he was going to fail, he was desperate and wouldn't give up.

The defining ep for me was Ianto holding the gun to Lisa/Pizza Girl, it was then when he realised what he HAD to do. But just because he knew he had to do it, it doesn't mean that he could. When it was all over Jack seemed to let it go, water under the bridge, and I think that the only reason he did that was because he knew that Ianto wanted to pull that trigger, but he couldn't find the strength. To me that's important, though Gwen is the human side of it all, the outsider, the show still needs someone who can't always cope. That is Ianto's purpose.

The writing was great, acting was even better, and the story was absolutely bloody brilliant. An easy:

9/10

Just one thing, I think Jack can expect some difficult questions from Owen pretty soon regarding how he's still alive.

SoulSpinder
November 6th, 2006, 09:07 AM
Well look, an ep I wasn’t let down by seeing as how badly I wanted to see this one. I thought it was absolutely brilliant.

First, though, I’ll do my three nit-picks (not major flaws or anything). We’re simply going to ignore that the lock opener is the information scanner. We’re also just gonna chuckle at Ianto’s “Tanasaki-san” as it might have been for the audience. (For those unfamiliar with the language, Tanasaki-sensei would have been more appropriate given that Ianto later addressed him as Dr. Tanasaki. And they didn’t seem overly familiar with one another, more business.) Third was the cinematography seemed a little, well, wobbly at times.

One important thing to remember about this ep, I think, was actually the very beginning. From the get-go, Ianto was talking/reminding that “it” was a “she.” He had never, for a moment, thought of her as anything else. This is also a handicap because I think he’s told himself that so many times he can’t believe she can’t be saved-he’s had to tell himself this.

Right after Lisa killed the doctor, Ianto started to tell her himself that if she ‘did it again’ that he would have to incapacitate her at the least. But he couldn’t finish the sentence then. I think that’s mirrored in the scene at the end. Like Signal said, he knew what he had to do, but he couldn’t.

On the opposite end of the coin I think this really sets in firmly Jack’s character. Even in the beginning he would only take ‘ten seconds’ to finish what they were doing before following up on something routine. He takes his ‘job’ so seriously he DOES forget ‘human’ aspects.

I think this is where the ‘monster’ comment comes in. I think a lot of us have felt like Ianto knows something about Jack that we don’t. He could still simply know about his immortal aspects. He could be referring to the fact that he has this gift of life but he wont/can’t help Lisa that Jack won’t even consider it.

Additionally the ‘inhuman’ changes to Lisa were and advance of science. Jack is just abnormal.

Another thing I loved was the short “conversation” between Jack and Ianto.
“I’m not giving up on her. I love her. Can you understand that, Jack? I mean, have you ever loved anyone?”

If you just watch the way it’s spoken and Jack’s reaction shots. It was almost like Ianto knows the answer to that question and was trying to pull the string only it backfired worse than he hoped.

I do think there was a missing scene. But I think Ianto not being booted has a lot to do with the fact that I think Jack, and the others, DO understand on some level the situation Ianto was placed into.


Sorry for the insanely long rant. Good think I have to go to class or I might make you all suffer more. :p

ShadowMaat
November 6th, 2006, 09:27 AM
Something on the monster thing- which is worse, some artificially generated monster or vampire or bog monster or whatever... or someone who's fully human but does inhumane things? I'm not making judgements about the people on Torchwood, mind you, it's more of a general question. For instance, I though Cain on BSG was much more of a "monster" than the cylons have been. Granted, Lisa was human at one time, but I think the upgrade pretty much washed away whatever humanity she had left. Though it did add a good creep factor in her attempts to emulate being human again. Yick.

In the scene where Ianto is hiding the body of the doctor, was that another body behind him wrapped in the canvases? Or was it just my imagination working on a natural lump? ;)

I had something else, but a customer interrupted and I've forgotten. *grumble* Some day I'll remember...

cohnee
November 6th, 2006, 09:46 AM
I'm enjoying the show, but I can't help feel that it could be better. Two problems:

(1) Lack of story focus. Episode 3 (don't remember the name) should of centred around Owen more. It just got a little confused with Gwen. Didn't seem like it had a focus on one character.

(2) Directing. Whoever is Directing these episodes needs to get with it. I really didn't feel scared last night and the camera direction was so plain at times. Just something with a little more energy to it. It kind of feels like they're trying to do grand on a show that's nor meant to be grand.

Maybe it's just me. I really want this show to do well because I think it has alot of potential, but it just keeps disapointing me in areas that seem really obvious.


Oh and can somebody please give Jack a better gun. It looked like he was threatening Ianto with a toy pistol last night.

ShadowMaat
November 6th, 2006, 10:15 AM
I assumed Jack's pistol was like so much else about his "current" life: a holdover from the 40's. It might look silly, but it's in keeping with the character, IMO.

scarimor
November 6th, 2006, 11:00 AM
In the scene where Ianto is hiding the body of the doctor, was that another body behind him wrapped in the canvases? Or was it just my imagination working on a natural lump? ;)
I thought I saw something like that dumped there too. And it's not the first time a corpse just seems to show up dumped in the background.

mentalmichael
November 6th, 2006, 11:23 AM
Good ep, albeit a little overly drawn out. My main complaint is that there's a bit of a plot-hole, or at least a moment where the characters got stupid. If they have a device that can open any door in 45 seconds then why didn't they open the door to the weapons store and just shoot the hell out of her?

Other than that, good ep (although the idea of Gwen/Owen is kinda.... wrong.)

ShadowMaat
November 6th, 2006, 05:02 PM
Looks like Ianto's section (http://www.torchwood.org.uk/html/ianto/)of the Torchwood Hub has been updated. Interesting snippets. Particularly the counseling and the "coffee" chat. Wish the latter had gone into a bit more depth, but oh well. Some pics of him with non-cyberised Lisa. She's very pretty.

There are also some "reports" on the Fall of Torchwood-1 (http://www.torchwood.org.uk/html/fall/). Ye gods...

Flyboy
November 6th, 2006, 05:55 PM
Oh... wow.

Just this minute finished watching the episode and BY GOD IT WAS GOOD!

As some body who has watched Classic Who episodes with the Cybermen, I feel that this came far closer to emulating the feel of those old eps than the New Who Cyber eps EVER did.

The sense of horror of what the cyberman (still refuse to use the term cyberwoman) was, the horror at what it did. All of it was perfect, it FELT dangerous in a way that the New Who ones never did. That was the perfect continuation of the Cybermen story and I loved it.

Ianto, my God, what a wonderful episode for him. I felt for him, I really did, I knew exactly why he was doing everything. To see someone you love.. become something different... to rationalise it, to explain it, to yell at yourself just to try and convince yourself that it wasn't her fault... she's still the same. I understood. But finally... when she was in the Pizza Girl's body... I just found myself saying under my breath "shoot her. shoot her." It was the ultimate evidence that his girlfriend was gone. No human would do that.

As for everything else, I think all the charcaters interacted perfectly and I'm very impressed with all of it.

ShadowMaat
November 6th, 2006, 07:46 PM
Just gonna put this out there cos it's been bugging me, but did anyone else have a flashback to Empty Child in last week's ep with the boy on the trail platform? I was waiting for him to say "Mummy?" *shiver* Would have been an awesome nod, but oh well. Maybe they have other plans in store for him. :D

SoulSpinder
November 6th, 2006, 10:59 PM
Just gonna put this out there cos it's been bugging me, but did anyone else have a flashback to Empty Child in last week's ep with the boy on the trail platform? I was waiting for him to say "Mummy?" *shiver* Would have been an awesome nod, but oh well. Maybe they have other plans in store for him. :D

*raises her hand* I looked over at my roommate and went: "....Kids are spooky in this 'verse."
"yesh...but it's not the same..."
"mummy?"
*roommate snickers*

Chaka's_Mum
November 6th, 2006, 11:58 PM
I got the impression that he was giving him his life *force* or whatever it is that makes Jack now immortal. Kind of like the whole Doctor/Rose thing *kiss* in PotW. I don't think it was meant to be CPR or anything. :P

Oops - I should have included a ;) there, I think, or just possibly a :P. It wasn't actually a nit pick, just a facetious comment. I didn't think it was CPR either - the cardio bit was missing for starters...

Dammit - there I go again.:rolleyes:


If they have a device that can open any door in 45 seconds then why didn't they open the door to the weapons store and just shoot the hell out of her?

Actually, that's quite a good point! I suppose there is the problem of the general invulnerability of cybermen, and they're all fixated on that (or at least the ones who've come across cybermen before, anyway). After all, the chances are that they could blow up the base, and themselves, and CyberLisa could still simply dig its way out and keep on trying to upgrade. I dunno. We just don't know how much of her is still 'mortal', and whether it will be possible to stop the machine bits by destroying the 'not machine' bits.

Given that even the Pterosaur couldn't finish CyberLisa off, that seems quite possible. She was only really rendered vulnerable after she'd transferred her brain to the Pizza girl - so they offed her then instead.

But then, there's the 'TV' answer: why do the obvious when you can have 40 minutes of destructive mayhem, inappropriate snogs in mortuary fridges and lots of angry recriminations before everyone heads out to the pub for a well earned bevvy afterwards? ;)

Pitry
November 7th, 2006, 06:13 AM
Huh, I got those Empty Child flashes merely by the teaser ;)

As for Cyberwoman, excellent episode! Loved it.
Yay @ more Ianto! Hooray!
Tho what kind of Ianto... eek.
I don't think he stills believes Jack was wrong and he was right. At the end, he didn't shoot her because he coudln't, not because he didn't want to - I thought it was rather telling he went, after they shot her, to the original blody, rather than the pizza-girl-body. He didn't accept it as a part of "his Lisa", and I think at some point he understood this also involved the murder of Pizza Girl.
If anything, it's more surprising he dind't quit, rather than be thrown ou by Jack. I agree he probably knows more aboutn Jack than the rest - the monster comment and the "love someone" comment, both were quite telling. I also hope it was left opened because they are going to refer to it in future episodes - it really did bug me in the first three of how background Ianto was, and I was pleasantly surprised to see how the character is aware of it, too. - and how sownig it was the rest of the characters didn't.

I stand by my original claim. Jack's in love with the Doctor.
:P

I do wish, however, it woudl have been slightly less graphic... that scietist with the pole stuck out of his head and steel instead of an eye... eeeew.

Wonder what happened to the pterodactyl. If it dind't kill Lisa... why did it stop?

So, excellent episode. Really looking forward to next week's - are they going back to Empty Child?

Shipperahoy
November 7th, 2006, 10:29 PM
I really like the series so far but am I the only one who's wondering about all the random snogging? It's like they're just throwing stuff in there for s***'s and giggles. Gwen snogging the sexaholic alien chick, Jack snogging Ianto, Owen snogging random bar guy and girl. Owen snogging Gwen....it's like a drunken frat party. I don't really mind it one way or the other I'm just wondering why it's being thrown in there in pretty much every single episode.

Willow'sCat
November 7th, 2006, 11:52 PM
I really like the series so far but am I the only one who's wondering about all the random snogging? It's like they're just throwing stuff in there for s***'s and giggles. Gwen snogging the sexaholic alien chick, Jack snogging Ianto, Owen snogging random bar guy and girl. Owen snogging Gwen....it's like a drunken frat party. I don't really mind it one way or the other I'm just wondering why it's being thrown in there in pretty much every single episode.
I don't know, I think screening/viewing the first two eps together was a problem, it made the sex/snogging *as you put it* more OTT. I don't think one kiss in ep 4 and one Jack giving life thingy :P is a lot of snogging, and if you read spoilers there is a reason for Owen kissing Gwen... um, get use to it basically.
I notice a lot of people *generally* who have commented on the kissing and sex haven't mentioned the times when Gwen kisses her boyfriend as an example of the kissing that goes on... I find that really interesting, almost like you expect her to kiss him so that type of kissing doesn't count. I also note Ianto kissed Lisa a bit too, but again his girlfriend *his freaky girlfriend* so maybe that doesn't count either.

SoulSpinder
November 8th, 2006, 07:03 AM
I don't know, I think screening/viewing the first two eps together was a problem, it made the sex/snogging *as you put it* more OTT. I don't think one kiss in ep 4 and one Jack giving life thingy :P is a lot of snogging, and if you read spoilers there is a reason for Owen kissing Gwen... um, get use to it basically.
I notice a lot of people *generally* who have commented on the kissing and sex haven't mentioned the times when Gwen kisses her boyfriend as an example of the kissing that goes on... I find that really interesting, almost like you expect her to kiss him so that type of kissing doesn't count. I also note Ianto kissed Lisa a bit too, but again his girlfriend *his freaky girlfriend* so maybe that doesn't count either.



You know, that is a very valid point ('they're supposed to, so it's okay'). I hadn't even noticed that before. But, you're right! Huh.

As for on the other flipside, reasoning? As much as it might not want to be admited... the show's fanservice wrapped up in disguse of a television show. (Well, it DID start because of how popular Jack's charri became/how much the writers etc liked the charri.) They're just trying to cover all thier bases. :p *L*

Okay so I'm half kidding there. Half.

Shipperahoy
November 8th, 2006, 09:02 AM
Well yeah, you expect a certain amount of kissing in a steady relationship and Ianto had been in a relationship with Lisa, however dysfunctional, and Gwen and what'shisname have been in one for a while too presumably. It's when people are just kissing randomly that it draws attention to itself. Like I said, it's not that I'm being all puritanical about it, it just seems a bit jolting at times. Of course, it could be just me.

Willow'sCat
November 8th, 2006, 03:19 PM
As for on the other flipside, reasoning? As much as it might not want to be admited... the show's fanservice wrapped up in disguse of a television show. (Well, it DID start because of how popular Jack's charri became/how much the writers etc liked the charri.) They're just trying to cover all thier bases. :p *L*

Okay so I'm half kidding there. Half.Well I think your right in as much as the only reason we have Torchwood is because Jack was so well received by fandom. And I think a certain part of fandom would love this show regardless of story or acting just because it has Jack. I am half there myself actually. :P Jack! :o :D


It's when people are just kissing randomly that it draws attention to itself. Like I said, it's not that I'm being all puritanical about it, it just seems a bit jolting at times. Of course, it could be just me.I understand what you mean, but I guess for me I am thinking there has been some reason behind it all. I mean the "aliens made them do it" and even the Owen thing that is best left to another thread, was him out on the pull and he is young(ish) and single, obvious horny, so what else would he do? :S Do you think it is more the way the show is shot that makes it jarring? There are a lot of bad cuts IMO between scenes, that might lead to a feeling of; where the heck did that come from... :P I think it does draw attention to it's self in the kissing department, but I think that was the point. Well RTD keeps rabbiting on about it anyway. ;) I think RTD is going for a weird scifi soap opera. :S

BC - 303
November 12th, 2006, 02:56 PM
i loved the little scene at the beginning with Ianto and Jack. Showing there not OK, but getting there.

Madeleine
November 12th, 2006, 11:08 PM
That was a brilliant episode.

Ianto's still there, and there was nothing said about last week, but there was a nice scene early between him and Jack which said some sort of resolution has happenned offscreen to me, so that's okay.

The legends of lost lands and children stolen by fairies have been done lots, and done creepy, but that doesn't mean there's not room for plenty more :). This was up there with the creepiest.

The SFX of the pretty fairies was perfect. The SFX of the monstrous fairies was a bit of a let-down, the design looked a bit too Gollum and the texture looked too plastic. Best of all though was when you couldn't see them onscreen: the actors really had that 'corner of the eye' thing down really well, and the flickering fluttering sound was just right.

As usual Gwen was wonderful.

I wonder why Jack never went back to Estella. And why the fairies didn't kill him on the train.

Oh, and no gratuitous snogging ;)

Willow'sCat
November 13th, 2006, 12:48 AM
Um, was I the only one confused on Jack's time-line? It said 1909, so has he been on Earth since then or was this part of his time agent *or whatever* thing? Was he stuck here or are we assuming he could move through time? As I said confused. ;) :D And if he couldn't move through time, wtf! Does this mean he has been through all that stuff with The Doctor and still ended up in 1909? And *yes I know* he can't be killed sure, but why does that mean he can't age???? :cool: *confused* I am sure this will only add to the "they are ripping Buffy/Angel off" argument, he can't age, be killed and wow "chosen one".... Oh well.

The story of the "chosen one" was a little convoluted, or Jack's explanation was anyway. I felt like I was being talked down to rather then listening to him explain something to Gwen.

I don't think this was as good as last week but I was glad to see it set right out of Torchwood its self, and in daylight. The girl was good, believable if a little sad. I didn't like the fact that the people who were targeted by the monster fairies had been presented as either pedophile, violent step dad or mean/bullying children. Other then Estella, the victims were horrible or not very nice people. I don't think they deserved what happened to them, but it clouded things where I didn't think they needed to be clouded. :cool:

I agree the cgi of the fairies was good but the monster fairies was a little lame, or maybe we just expect too much these days... *shrugs*

I liked half naked Jack, surely that sheet could have been just a little lower. :p

Chaka's_Mum
November 13th, 2006, 05:05 AM
Maybe one day we will find out - Jack's timeline is rather murky! Just trying to figure it all out on my own makes my puny little brain hurt...;)

I liked that brief moment between Jack and Ianto as well - there are still perhaps issues there, but they've put 'em aside for the time being. I also concur with Madeleine - thanks for a snog-free episode. Less is more. Actually, none is more when it comes to that sort of thing.

I also thought the whole connection to the Cottingley Fairies was quite cute, too; particularly at the end when Gwen focused in on one of the fairies in the famous picture of Frances with the dancers and 'discovered' she was the little girl. That was a nice touch. Interestingly, Frances and Elsie did admit that the pictures were fake a number of times (interspersed with evasive suggestions that people take the piccies on their own merits), but always insisted that they really had seen fairies around the beck.

It seemed odd that Estella was the only person they killed who hadn't been directly unpleasant towards the girl (I wish I could remember her name!). Unless her investigations were starting to draw too much attention to the 'fairies' and they took steps to shut her up, of course.

School bullies I can understand. The little girl did come across very much as a loner and 'person apart'. Someone like that is (however unfairly) a prime target for bullies, so it was perhaps not surprising that a couple of unpleasant little madams had decided to take it upon themselves to be nasty to her. They were lucky to come out of it alive!

It was, also, a real shame that the step-dad was the tiresome 'I only put up with her 'cos she's my partner's kid' stereotype step-dad. Okay, I know I'm second guessing after the fact and all that - but wouldn't it have been more effective to have him acting out of genuine interest in her welfare and trying to contain her because he was concerned about her safety rather than just out of petty spite? What better way to show just how ruthless these 'fairies' really are in protecting the 'chosen one' than that? It just seemed so lazy.

Yes - I know I sound like I'm carping, but I did actually enjoy this episode!

One thing I really liked - whether it was intended or not - happened while Gwen was clearing up her and Rhys's flat after the fairies had popped in to give it a bit of a going over. When she put her hand to her upper lip at one point, it was shaking a bit. Now, I may well have imagined that bit - but even if I did, I still thought it was pretty effective!

I imagine Eve Myles had a wonderful time yanking rose petals out of that bloke's gob, too!

It'll be interesting to see whether Gwen, Owen and Toshi will have got over their collective spat with Jack by next week, too. They were all pretty disgusted with him for letting the little girl go - despite the possible consequences of forcing her to stay against her will. Not a choice I'd like to have made.

SoulSpinder
November 13th, 2006, 07:26 AM
It'll be interesting to see whether Gwen, Owen and Toshi will have got over their collective spat with Jack by next week, too. They were all pretty disgusted with him for letting the little girl go - despite the possible consequences of forcing her to stay against her will. Not a choice I'd like to have made.


I think that was a great point. I think it's just another nudge to show us that if yoru in the position he's in, he has to make descisions that NO ONE would EVER like/have to make. And he has to live with those choices. And it oviously beats down on him. (Jack really looked like he was going to break down again at the end.)

But I also think that they can all sit down and think: What would I have done. If they can even debate that without feeling sick themselves. I know I would.

I completely agree. Well done, Eve! That was a brilliant piece of work for her.

It's funny how the SPX grr-faeries were compaired to gollum-esque. I myself was thinking gollum meets orc. *L* But I thought they were quite nicely done. (Exspecially if you take into account that A) they have a TV budget. and B) being placed in a 'real' world with no establishment of fantasy background withing show history, they're gonna stick out subconciously to us anyway.)

My gripe about the cinematography in the past has been lessened. I was impressed a few times on the camera's complimenting to the scene or dialogue. Same thing with the lighting. It seems with every element of this show that the people were learning as they were going and improving at the same rate.

Yet, like others, I was a little confused. I hope it'll all make sense after another watch or two.

And, despite the fact that this seemed like something I would write, (maybe not quality, but the 'angsty' is completely up me alley! Here I was begging for them to let Jack cry. Well, I wasn't quite exspecting that for some reason. Gotta be careful what you wish for.) after it ended I felt really, really, heavy. It took me quite a while to calm down and not feel like I was going to burst into tears. I'm usually not like that. So it was quite unnerving!

Still, I'll agree with Willow that it wasn't quite as good as last week imho, but definately a good installment.

...and on the sheet comment. ;) *whistles innocently.*

ShadowMaat
November 13th, 2006, 09:54 AM
Liked this ep loads. I don't see any discrepancy with the timeline, though. Jack must have come back through the rift at some point, but he could have been dropped anywhere, anywhen. Seeing the flashback to 1909 just means he's been stuck here even longer than I thought. No wonder he's a bit deadened to things (though still obviously capable of things like love, as evidenced by Estella).

I do find it a bit questionable that the faeries targeted Estella for death. Maybe they didn't like having their picture taken?

When Gwen focused on the face at the end, who was that supposed to be, the little girl?

I liked the beginning scene with Ianto, too. Liked how he kinda jumped when Jack touched him. I wonder what it says about Ianto that he's sticking around the office at odd hours. Trying to atone? Or implying he has nothing else in his life? Or what? Hope we'll get more on that.

What was that thing Jack was sleeping in? It didn't look like a cot. But then, I was a bit distracted by Jack so I might not have noticed. :D

This was an interesting- if not very informative- take on faeries. I wonder what OTHER remnants are left over from the dawn of time...

EDIT: Okay, just went to the TWOP site and I give up on the timeline stuff. Might not be as obvious as I thought. *sigh*

yaaayoubetcha
November 13th, 2006, 09:58 AM
I enjoyed the ep, but if Torchwood is supposed to be this super secret organization, isn't it kind silly to have the name embossed on the side of the land rover and in bright letter on top?

Is there some contest going on where you can win the actual vehicle or something like that?

ShadowMaat
November 13th, 2006, 10:06 AM
I don't know if Torchwood itself is a secret or if it's what they do that's the real secret.

And if there was a contest, that'd be pretty dang cool. Pity I'm in the US- shipping charges would be outrageous. :P