SG-1 in "Moebius"

[Daniel Jackson]

I posted this in the Seasons 1-8 forum, but that forum is a ghost town, so I hope you guys don't mind me reposting here.

In "Moebius," the Original SG-1 had been stranded in ancient Egypt. Jack, Sam, and Teal'c all died in a failed attempt to create an early rebellion so they could return home. Five years later, Daniel was greeted by bizzaro versions of Jack, Sam, and Teal'c. They managed to repair the timeline, but whut happened to them after that?

I think they would have destroyed the damaged time traveling puddle jumper, but whut about the other one? Why not use that one to return to the present? We know it'll still be there when Ra leaves, because it was there in the future for Bizzaro SG-1 to find. Furthermore, this would mean we'd have two Daniel's with one being several years older... and two very different versions of Jack, Sam, and Teal'c if Bizzaro Teal'c's larva Goa'uld hadn't matured by the time they could return to the present. I wonder if they'll use this plot in the time travel movie they're going to make next year? Hmm...

Alternatively, they could have destroyed the damaged Puddle Jumper and left the intact one where it was just incase they didn't repair the timeline like they thought. This would leave SG-1 with two Puddle Jumpers capable of time travel in the present. If this was the decission Bizzaro SG-1 made, I wonder whut happened to Original Daniel? Did he die in Ancient Egypt, or did he figure out how to Ascend all on his own? For all we know, he may have used the Stargate to go to Keb and have Oma DeSalla ascend him. Just imagine... there could be two Daniel's... one on SG-1, and one Ascended. Spooky!

[Admiral Mappalazarou]

I posted this in the Seasons 1-8 forum, but that forum is a ghost town, so I hope you guys don't mind me reposting here.

In "Moebius," the Original SG-1 had been stranded in ancient Egypt. Jack, Sam, and Teal'c all died in a failed attempt to create an early rebellion so they could return home. Five years later, Daniel was greeted by bizzaro versions of Jack, Sam, and Teal'c. They managed to repair the timeline, but whut happened to them after that?

I think they would have destroyed the damaged time traveling puddle jumper, but whut about the other one? Why not use that one to return to the present? We know it'll still be there when Ra leaves, because it was there in the future for Bizzaro SG-1 to find. Furthermore, this would mean we'd have two Daniel's with one being several years older... and two very different versions of Jack, Sam, and Teal'c if Bizzaro Teal'c's larva Goa'uld hadn't matured by the time they could return to the present. I wonder if they'll use this plot in the time travel movie they're going to make next year? Hmm...

Alternatively, they could have destroyed the damaged Puddle Jumper and left the intact one where it was just incase they didn't repair the timeline like they thought. This would leave SG-1 with two Puddle Jumpers capable of time travel in the present. If this was the decission Bizzaro SG-1 made, I wonder whut happened to Original Daniel? Did he die in Ancient Egypt, or did he figure out how to Ascend all on his own? For all we know, he may have used the Stargate to go to Keb and have Oma DeSalla ascend him. Just imagine... there could be two Daniel's... one on SG-1, and one Ascended. Spooky!

Balls of Iron, my friend.
Nice theories, but I think that the Bizarro SG-1 died in ancient Egypt. I suppose it'd be nice to explore that area though, along with the countless other plotholes they messed up. Like Danny's crazy uncle who got kidnapped by Giant Aliens? and how Daniel's crazy ex-girlfriend is coping with life after being a host to Osiris? and whatever happened to SuperGirl-Tokra Anise? And any of the Tokra for that matter? Did the Free Jaffa ever take over that cool spacestation from 'Summit'? Why did Kalowna fall to the Ori so easily, and why didn't Jonas contact the SGC for help? Why the HELL didn't the SGC replicate more of the Anti-Prior technology from 'The Forth Horseman prt 2' and give one to every SG team???????

Damn it, my head hurts...

[Daniel Jackson]

You're right, the Tok'ra, Jonas and his people, Sarah Gardner, the Asguard, and so forth would be more worthy of being followed on. I just have this feeling that the time travel movie will tie into "Moebius" somehow...

[Admiral Mappalazarou]

You're right, the Tok'ra, Jonas and his people, Sarah Gardner, the Asguard, and so forth would be more worthy of being followed on. I just have this feeling that the time travel movie will tie into "Moebius" somehow...

plus the shape shifter aliens, Seth should've been in it more, Osiris's cool ship from Egypt, and Martin Lloyd's mates who flew off in Wormhole X-treme...any more?

[Daniel Jackson]

By shape shifter aliens, do you mean the ones from "Foothold?" I liked that Seth was only in one episode. We've had Apophis, Anubis, Hathor, Ba'al, and other Goa'ulds as recurring villains. It was nice to see one Goa'uld in a stand-alone episode. "Seth" is a solid story with a great ending. I don't think anyone care's about Osiris's cool ship from Egypt. I also don't think anyone cares about Lloyd's "friends" from Wormhole X-Treme!

However, let's stick to "Moebius..."

Do you think Daniel from Ancient Egypt went through the Stargate (before it was burried) to Keb and had Oma Desalla ascend him?

[Blitz]

Do you think Daniel from Ancient Egypt went through the Stargate (before it was burried) to Keb and had Oma Desalla ascend him?

No....cuz that would be silly...

However, If I remember correctly from what one fo the writers/producer people said - the first SG1 team we see in Moebius, the 'no fish in my pond' team was never the original team - but the team at the end is the team we know and love throughout the whole series....

[FallenAngelII]

Not this again. Ok, ignore what anyone else might have said or might say in the future that contradicts what I'm about to say unless I say not to:

OK, so there are several theories on time-travel. One allows for the Paradox-thing where you cease to exist if you kill your own Grandfather. One does not.

I don't remember what either one's called but the one used in "Moebius" is the one where you cannot cease to exist due to killing your own Grandfather.

According to this theory, every time you travel back in time, an alternate timeline is created and blablabla.

So, this is what happened:
* Original!SG-1 goes back in time to steal the ZPM from Ra. Original!Time Jumper gets discovered and Original!SG-1 is stranded. Original!SG-1 plans a rebellion but before their plan can be executed, Original!Jack, Original!Sam and Original!Teal'c are captured and executed.
* Fast-forward a few millennia and Alt!Archeologists find Original!SG-1's tape. Which leads to Alt!Hammond recruiting Alt!Sam and Alt!Daniel, who eventually bring in Alt!Jack and then they go and fetch Alt!Teal'c. However, Alt!Daniel had been implanted with Ra's symbiote, so Alt!Teal'c had to kill him. They go back in time using the Alt!Time Jumper and meet up with Original!Daniel. They successfully start the rebellion, force Ra out of Egypt and then hide the ZPM in the crypt, together with that tape and then destroy the two puddle jumpers and live out the rest of their lives in Egypt (obviously they would've refrained from having children, imagine the causality issues!).
* Our!SG-1 (as in the one we've been following for the past 10 years) finds the tape and the ZPM two weeks before the events of Moebius in the timeline and don't have to go back in time. Our!SG-1 goes fishing just like they did in "Threads" (it's the same fishing trip!), only this time, a fish jumps out of the lake.

So, did anything change due to the tampering of Original!SG-1 and Alt!SG-1? We don't know. Because we know nothing about the past events of Original!SG-1.

I very much doubt Original!Daniel, Alt!Jack, Alt!Sam and Alt!Teal'c went forward in time again because we don't have an Alt!Teal'c who hasn't been with the SGC for 8 years and Alt(Geeky)!Sam. Also, I believe Alt!Sam made it clear they had to destroy the ship.

As for what they did after being stranded? I very much doubt Sam would let them do causality-damaging things such as fathering kids (so, no, no little Jacks running around spreading the gene) or going off to Kheb to Ascend. Also, I very much Oma would Ascend Daniel and then Ascend him again. I'm also very much against the idea that Daniel ascended in Egypt, descended in our time (as a baby and snuck into his mom's womb!) and then Ascended and Descended twice more after that.

That fish in Jack's lake? We're told in the commentary track for "Moebius" that there's always been fish in Jack's lake, only that he's a really, really, really bad fisherman. Just look at how he fishes! He throws the hook out and immediately reels it in!

[Blitz]

Not this again. Ok, ignore what anyone else might have said or might say in the future that contradicts what I'm about to say unless I say not to:

OK, so there are several theories on time-travel. One allows for the Paradox-thing where you cease to exist if you kill your own Grandfather. One does not.

I don't remember what either one's called but the one used in "Moebius" is the one where you cannot cease to exist due to killing your own Grandfather.

According to this theory, every time you travel back in time, an alternate timeline is created and blablabla.

So, this is what happened:
* Original!SG-1 goes back in time to steal the ZPM from Ra. Original!Time Jumper gets discovered and Original!SG-1 is stranded. Original!SG-1 plans a rebellion but before their plan can be executed, Original!Jack, Original!Sam and Original!Teal'c are captured and executed.
* Fast-forward a few millennia and Alt!Archeologists find Original!SG-1's tape. Which leads to Alt!Hammond recruiting Alt!Sam and Alt!Daniel, who eventually bring in Alt!Jack and then they go and fetch Alt!Teal'c. However, Alt!Daniel had been implanted with Ra's symbiote, so Alt!Teal'c had to kill him. They go back in time using the Alt!Time Jumper and meet up with Original!Daniel. They successfully start the rebellion, force Ra out of Egypt and then hide the ZPM in the crypt, together with that tape and then destroy the two puddle jumpers and live out the rest of their lives in Egypt (obviously they would've refrained from having children, imagine the causality issues!).
* Our!SG-1 (as in the one we've been following for the past 10 years) finds the tape and the ZPM two weeks before the events of Moebius in the timeline and don't have to go back in time. Our!SG-1 goes fishing just like they did in "Threads" (it's the same fishing trip!), only this time, a fish jumps out of the lake.

So, did anything change due to the tampering of Original!SG-1 and Alt!SG-1? We don't know. Because we know nothing about the past events of Original!SG-1.

I very much doubt Original!Daniel, Alt!Jack, Alt!Sam and Alt!Teal'c went forward in time again because we don't have an Alt!Teal'c who hasn't been with the SGC for 8 years and Alt(Geeky)!Sam. Also, I believe Alt!Sam made it clear they had to destroy the ship.

As for what they did after being stranded? I very much doubt Sam would let them do causality-damaging things such as fathering kids (so, no, no little Jacks running around spreading the gene) or going off to Kheb to Ascend. Also, I very much Oma would Ascend Daniel and then Ascend him again. I'm also very much against the idea that Daniel ascended in Egypt, descended in our time (as a baby and snuck into his mom's womb!) and then Ascended and Descended twice more after that.

That fish in Jack's lake? We're told in the commentary track for "Moebius" that there's always been fish in Jack's lake, only that he's a really, really, really bad fisherman. Just look at how he fishes! He throws the hook out and immediately reels it in!

Thats pretty much what I meant O_o I think....

Gotta admit, I love how stuck up you sound at the start though

'Not this again. Ok, ignore what anyone else might have said or might say in the future that contradicts what I'm about to say unless I say not to'

Much nicer ways to say things, but I love it anyway!

[FallenAngelII]

It's just that a lot, a lot of people who really don't have any idea of what they're talking about throw in their two cents into these discussions, people who haven't even heard the commentary track and just assume the timeline was changed because of the fish or who randomly throw in theories on time travel that contradict the ones used in SG-1.

[Blitz]

Thats the fun of it!

Not knowing is fun, theorys, guessing - a lot more fun than deffinate knowing...the fact you answered doesnt bother me - but some people DONT have the leasure of seeing the commentaries...im 19, and I cant afford the DVDS....

other people cant, so being brash isnt always needed

[Pharaoh Atem]

here's another thread covering the subject http://forum.gateworld.net/showthread.php?t=9324

might be some help

[Daniel Jackson]

That fish in Jack's lake? We're told in the commentary track for "Moebius" that there's always been fish in Jack's lake, only that he's a really, really, really bad fisherman. Just look at how he fishes! He throws the hook out and immediately reels it in!

Watch the end of "Threads," then watch the end of "Moebius, Part 2." At the end of "Threads," the fish doesn't jump out of the water. At the end of "Moebius, Part 2," the fish does jump out of the water.

I just popped in my DVD. At the end of "Threads," when Jack and Sam are fishing, the camera zooms in, then zooms back out to reveal that Daniel and Teal'c also came along. We see them set up chairs and a cooler, then Daniel approaches Jack to hand him a beer. Fade to credits.

At the end of "Moebius, Part 2," we see this same scene, but a fish jumps out of the water as Daniel and Teal'c set up their chairs and the cooler.

The timeline was infact changed! Buahahahahaha!!!!

[FallenAngelII]

Watch the end of "Threads," then watch the end of "Moebius, Part 2." At the end of "Threads," the fish doesn't jump out of the water. At the end of "Moebius, Part 2," the fish does jump out of the water.

I just popped in my DVD. At the end of "Threads," when Jack and Sam are fishing, the camera zooms in, then zooms back out to reveal that Daniel and Teal'c also came along. We see them set up chairs and a cooler, then Daniel approaches Jack to hand him a beer. Fade to credits.

At the end of "Moebius, Part 2," we see this same scene, but a fish jumps out of the water as Daniel and Teal'c set up their chairs and the cooler.

The timeline was infact changed! Buahahahahaha!!!!

Oh yes, it was changed in such a way that the fish jumped out of the water. Big whoopie.

[Daniel Jackson]

I didn't say it was a big change, just that it was changed.

Personally, I don't see why people are so upset with the idea of original SG-1 dieing in Ancient Egypt when the SG-1 at the end of "Moebius" are literally the exact same team.

It's no different than Future O'Brien from DS9 "Visionary" or Duplicate Harry from VOY "Deadlock."

[FallenAngelII]

I didn't say it was a big change, just that it was changed.

Personally, I don't see why people are so upset with the idea of original SG-1 dieing in Ancient Egypt with the SG-1 at the end of "Moebius" are literally the exact same team.

No, it's not the same team. original!SG-1 and alt!SG-1 are part of different timelines. Timelines that together eventually spawned the timeline that became "our" timeline, the one we've been following for the past 9 and a half years.

In fact, ever since the start of the series, we've been following our!SG-1, whose timeline is the result of original!SG-1 and alt!SG-1. According to the special time travel theory used in Moebius, every time you travel back in time, you create an alternate timeline into which you are merged if you ever go back.

Only, they didn't. Because original!SG-1 couldn't (captured time jumper) and then 3/4ths of original!SG-1 died and, well, we couldn't have geeky!Sam go back and merge with our timeline, now could we?

This is how our!SG-1 could get their hands on a ZPM without ever having to go back in time. Essentially, the ending of "Threads" is the ending of "Theads" of original!SG-1.

Because around that time in our!Timeline, right after Daniel half-Ascended and then Descended and before they went on that fishing trip, they found the ZPM.

Got it? So, in effect, what we saw at the end of "Threads" is not part of our timeline but part of the timeline of the original!SG-1. We can't be sure but all of "Threads" might be the events of the original!Timeline. We know things unfolded pretty much the same in our!Timeline, though, because the Goa'uld are gone and so are the Replicators and they still go fishing (and everything's the same except the fish jumps out of the water).

(I forgot to mention the "Threads"-thing before because it just slipped my mind.)

So, in conclusion: What happened in "Threads" - original!Timeline. What happened in every single other episode of "Stargate SG-1" (including "Moebius") except "2010" - our!Timeline.

our!Timeline is the timeline we've been following since "Children of the Gods" (let's claim "Stargate - The Movie" was an alternate universe because of all of the different. I mean, "Tyler"?!). original!Timeline is that of the 1st SG-1 we saw in "Moebius" (I call it "original!" because they were the first ones (to our knowledge) to go back in time to Ra's time to meddle with the past).

Got it? Questions? I'll answe them.