Ancient Philosophy vs. Ori Philosopy

[Origin1981]

The Ancients and the Ori became devided because the ancients relied more on technology while the Ori wanted to be more spiritual right? My only question is this. What did the Ori worship?

I meant to spell philosophy.

[Blitz]

I'm starting to think the Mods should just make a Main Thread for the Ancients...just for all your damn Ancient threads...as much as I love them...seeing Ancient WAY to many times on this board.

As for your Q: Perhaps they served whoever tough them to ascend, perhaps they simply believed in Gaia.

[JanusAncient]

It's becoming the same way with the Ori. But, I don't believe that the Ori worshipped anything, I think it was more a concern of a spiritual route to ascension, rather than technological.

[the fifth man]

It's becoming the same way with the Ori. But, I don't believe that the Ori worshipped anything, I think it was more a concern of a spiritual route to ascension, rather than technological.

That's how I see it too. They probably wanted to just occupy themselves with reaching enlightenment, and not concern themselves with trying to accomplish anything more on this plain of existence (technologically anyways).

[Mitchell82]

That's how I see it too. They probably wanted to just occupy themselves with reaching enlightenment, and not concern themselves with trying to accomplish anything more on this plain of existence (technologically anyways).

That makes alot of sense but now that they have theese awesome ships I'd say their philosophy has changed now that I don't even think an Ancient warship could harm their ships.

[Giantevilhead]

Orlin said that the Ancients believed in science and the Ori believed in religion, which are basically two different ways of knowing. Ancients use observations, evidence, repeated testing of a hypothesis to learn about the universe. Presumably, to the Ancients, nothing can ever be proven, they work with the theories that have withstood scrutiny but have never been disproven. The Ori use faith. Presumably the Ori believe that there are underlying truths that are beyond logic and science. What they believe can neither be proven nor disproven but they know them to be true.

[Lord of Nightmares]

This was brought up during a discussion with some of my friends awhile back. We agreed that there's very little information to go by right now to determine whether or not the Ori (and possibly the Ancients before the split) worshipped an actual deity or deities, or whether they focused purely on spiritual enlightenment (kinda like Buddha). We also however agreed that assuming the former holds true, then it was also probable that once they ascended, the Ori modelled the concept of Origin based off whatever religion they originally followed, eventually deluding themselves into believing they were truly gods.

Of course, one of my friends also pointed out that if it was the case, then it'd be kinda creepy since the Priors bear more than a passing resemblance to Roman Catholic missionaries during the Dark Ages. Whether or not this is purely conincidental or something deliberate with much deeper implications on the parts of Cooper and gang remains to be seen however.

[JanusAncient]

Orlin said that the Ancients believed in science and the Ori believed in religion, which are basically two different ways of knowing. Ancients use observations, evidence, repeated testing of a hypothesis to learn about the universe. Presumably, to the Ancients, nothing can ever be proven, they work with the theories that have withstood scrutiny but have never been disproven. The Ori use faith. Presumably the Ori believe that there are underlying truths that are beyond logic and science. What they believe can neither be proven nor disproven but they know them to be true.

Gotta say, I love this!

[kirmit]

it wasn't that the ancients believed more in technology just science, it's basically like the big bang theory vs adam and eve, both could still advance in technology at the same rate.

The Ori most likely believed there was a reason for their being and that it could proceed after death. The ancients having a purely scientifical view would think when you die that's it, as they still seem to portray this even after ascension (oma saying to daniel acension being better than the alternative).

[jdog]

Are the ancients more powerful. The Ori seem to fear the ascend ancients.
But the ancients don't do anything about them....

If not, who is really better, the ori lie to get you to follow them but the seem to take care of their followers well vs the ancients don't do anything to help anyone but control each other. You think if you found a way to ascend you have the right to do what you want.

[jdog]

Also it's the ancients technology that seemed to screw things up in the universe and now they accept no responsibility for their actions.

The Ori as bad as they are seem to leave no lose ends for others to deal with.

[Origin1981]

If the Ori wanted enlightenment in the first place why did they start a war with the alterans in the past in the first place if they did.

[akren]

I think, IMHO, that when the Alterans split into the two factions - the Ancients & the Orii - that the Ancients focused on science & tech whereas the orii toook a more spiritual path. I beleive that, in part, the orii demand worship from othse on the lower planes simply becuase their technology became so advanced & god-like (where they could do almost anything, such as create life/time travel, etc) that they began to honestly beleive in their own divinity.

As pointed out eariler in this thread, the Origin faith may also be modelled on the Orii's own spiritual beliefs prior to their ascension; & the Orii may see things as having a divine compontent behind them, whereas the Ancients were constantly looking for scientific reasonings behind everything.

It is interesting to note that in our own modern-day society, the [ionly[/i] mono-theastic religion dedicated to the worship of one god/deity that does not conflict science (at leats not with what I have seen& read IMHO) - & in fact uses science to back up it's claims as being a divine work inspired by god - is Islam & the Ko'ran; which again goes back to the whole 'man using science to prove how the universe works & how god created it' thing.

I am also wondering if the whole Ascended Ancient/Orii thing did, in fact, inspire, create or influence religions like Christinianity & Islam (please excuse the blasphemous references, it is used only in context for the purposes of this theory/conversation; so any Christians/Mulsims here shouldn't get offended! *lol* ) in the STARGATE universe?

The Ancients appear as beings made of light (angels), the Orii as entities made of fire (demons). The Ko'ran mentions this is how Allah (god) shaped & created angels & demons to serve his will & interact with man-kind, & this is also how they are sometimes portrayed in Christian motifs & religious artworks as well, IMVHO & to the best of my knowledge.

Daniel also stated that fire is associated with warmth, heat & light - all positive imagery given the potential destructiveness of fire (fire also being a central part of the Origin religion) - but at some point on Earth fire was associated with neagtive/evil & demonic imagry : devils, demons, hellfire & brinstone, etc (Avalon, parts 1 & 2/Origin; Season 9). He then goes on to surmise that the Ancients may have had a hand in this negative imagry to help shield us from worship of the Orii, just as they blocked the Orii's knowledge of the Milkyway Galaxy being populated with Human-form life until Daniel & Vala went in search of the Ancients using the long-range communications device/stones.

If this thoery holds true & the Ancients did influence mortal medieaval man in subtle ways to ensure that worship of the Orii did not take a hold on Earth if & when the orii made themselves known to the MIlkyway Galaxy; then they may have done so when they came back from Atlantis, or - & highly more likely - Ascended Ancients (or even Merlin, whom kept all his ascended knowledge when he de-ascended to work on his anti-Orii weapon) had a hand in the whole 'fire bad, light good' scenrio; in which case (& depending on their involvement) they may have been breaching some serious rules; not least of which is the Ascneded Ancients highest law of non-intereference with those on the lower planes of existence.

It would alos mean that, by trying to establish a mind-set in mortals where fire is evil & worshipping the Orii is a no-no; that they are directly or indirectly responsible for all the religious wars throughout history (The Crusades between Christian Europe & the Islamic East). Then againm having seen how the Goa'uuld & Asgard have influenced Earth & ancients clutures here & throughout the galaxy; is it any wonder we have aliens meddling in our affairs 24/7?

As to the whole war between the Orii & the Ancients thing; it comes down to a simply matter of having sucha huge rift in ideas/beleifs that eventually; conflict arises (look at the conflict between science/Christianity/Islam going on nows in the world? People arguing & fighting over their beleifs is, sadly, nothing new ). When this conflict becomes too great & one side refuses to accept, acknowledge or tolerate the other's view point; they try & enforce their own ways of thinking upon others, whether they want it or not (e.g.: Nazi iedology, religious extremists, holy wars & the like). Basically, methinks - at least IMHO - that the ori refuses to let the Ancients follow their own path, insisting that they all 'band together' & do things their way. When the Ancients refused, the Orii went to war with them; forcing them to flee their home galaxy & leave the Orii behind or be wiped out in a war of fanaticism based on the 'we're right, you're wrong; you either do what we say or we kill you' principle. Which just goes to show that even technologically advanced cultures can have such huge differences as to be idoitic. Anyone whom refuses to at least respect another's view points & agree to disagree & let it be at that instead of dragging it through the mud gets the thumbs down from me (looks like the Orii aren;t as 'advanced' philospohically & socially speaking as what they claim to be. . . *lol* ).