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feifei
September 17th, 2006, 01:52 AM
I'm noticing a lot of inconsistencies in Stargate now...

For one... the puddle jumpers... how come they aren't equiped with hyperdrives? I mean, if the relatively small F-302 can create a hyperspace window, why can't the bigger, more advanced puddle jumper? After all, it is Atlantian technology, which is infinitely superior to the reverse-engineered little F-302.

Also... the stargate "highway" that they're implementing to be able to reach earth without the ZPM, what is powering these gates... and without a large body like a planet... what address would these gates have? It was established in SG-1 that they can't use a stargate unless it was near the proximity of a planet. They also show that the chevrons represent stars in the galaxy and through that, the gates can orient themselves.

And if each gate or planet has its own unique "origin" symbol, why not use those symbols instead of six chevrons?

Additionally, what about the Atlantian replicators? It's obvious that the Ancients dealt with them before, otherwise O'neill couldn't have dug up the schematics for the weapon that disrupted the replicators' links. Wouldn't this weapon have COMPLETELY eraticated the replicators when the Atlantians decided to destroy them?

Also, the code that prevents the replicators from killing Ancients... how would it work exactly? It's not as if the replicators can immediately know if someone is an ancient? If it were merely the case of detecting the ATA gene, then wouldn't that mean they couldn't hurt Shepard or McKay?

Davidtourniquet
September 17th, 2006, 03:06 AM
If your referring to the hot zone virus, then it did detect the ata gene in mckay which is why he didn't go all mental and die.

Dutch_Razor
September 17th, 2006, 04:48 AM
The PJ's have hyperdrives, they're just very slow compared to the Asgard's.

Blitz
September 17th, 2006, 05:04 AM
I'm noticing a lot of inconsistencies in Stargate now...

For one... the puddle jumpers... how come they aren't equiped with hyperdrives? I mean, if the relatively small F-302 can create a hyperspace window, why can't the bigger, more advanced puddle jumper? After all, it is Atlantian technology, which is infinitely superior to the reverse-engineered little F-302.

Also... the stargate "highway" that they're implementing to be able to reach earth without the ZPM, what is powering these gates... and without a large body like a planet... what address would these gates have? It was established in SG-1 that they can't use a stargate unless it was near the proximity of a planet. They also show that the chevrons represent stars in the galaxy and through that, the gates can orient themselves.

And if each gate or planet has its own unique "origin" symbol, why not use those symbols instead of six chevrons?

Additionally, what about the Atlantian replicators? It's obvious that the Ancients dealt with them before, otherwise O'neill couldn't have dug up the schematics for the weapon that disrupted the replicators' links. Wouldn't this weapon have COMPLETELY eraticated the replicators when the Atlantians decided to destroy them?

Also, the code that prevents the replicators from killing Ancients... how would it work exactly? It's not as if the replicators can immediately know if someone is an ancient? If it were merely the case of detecting the ATA gene, then wouldn't that mean they couldn't hurt Shepard or McKay?

None of those are inconsistencies.

1) The Hyperdrives -
Puddle Jumpers are gate flyers, not space flyers. They arnt meant to go deep space or fight. Simple people carriers. The hyperdrive was never needed.
Taur'a put the hyperdrives on their F-302s for tactical use - they were the underdogs and needed a BIG advantage.

2) Space Bridge
Firstly the DHD on the Puddle Jumper would most likely power the Stargates. As for no point of origin - we don't know yet. But im pretty sure the writers arnt going to go frick the whole idea up.
The gate doesnt need to be near a planet - but simply in the proximity of the address being dialed.

3) Asuran/Replicatars
THERE NOT THE SAME FRICKING THINGS!
O'neill used Ancient knowlege to build a weapon - not used a pre-made weapon.
MILKYWAY GALAXY/ASGARD = Kiron based replicator blocks. We have no idea of the Asurans work on the same principle and it would be STUPID to assume that.

4) ATA + Ancientness
Just because you have a certain gene doesnt mean your an Ancient.
Just because you wear a generals uniform, does that make you a General? no.
People with the ATA gene are just 'advanced'/privelidged.

Gen_J_O'Neill
September 17th, 2006, 05:07 AM
For one... the puddle jumpers... how come they aren't equiped with hyperdrives? I mean, if the relatively small F-302 can create a hyperspace window, why can't the bigger, more advanced puddle jumper? After all, it is Atlantian technology, which is infinitely superior to the reverse-engineered little F-302.

Its because the ancients designed them to go through the gate. They were never meant to be used for long journeys through space.


Also... the stargate "highway" that they're implementing to be able to reach earth without the ZPM, what is powering these gates... and without a large body like a planet... what address would these gates have? It was established in SG-1 that they can't use a stargate unless it was near the proximity of a planet. They also show that the chevrons represent stars in the galaxy and through that, the gates can orient themselves.

Im only speculating, but im pretty sure they could program the gates to dial only the gates they want. They could just reprogram the gate so that it recognises the next gate in the line and so on. They could just make up the address by coordinating the gates location.

Im pretty sure that the symbols on the gate are only representations of the actual coordinate data that is stored within the gate (or dhd) itself. Therefore, im pretty sure that these coordinates could be changed even though the symbols remain the same.


And if each gate or planet has its own unique "origin" symbol, why not use those symbols instead of six chevrons?

Because then you would only be able to dial 36 or 39 (i forget how many symbols are on the gate) planets from your gate. The six chevrons determine where you are going and the seventh detrmines where your coming from.


Additionally, what about the Atlantian replicators? It's obvious that the Ancients dealt with them before, otherwise O'neill couldn't have dug up the schematics for the weapon that disrupted the replicators' links. Wouldn't this weapon have COMPLETELY eraticated the replicators when the Atlantians decided to destroy them?

Good point. If you watched 'Prodegy' it seemed as if the ancients were using drones or some other weapon to destroy the replicator civilisation instead of using the weapon jack used. I dont know why they wouldnt have used a weapon like the one jack used, maybe they thought the drones would do a good enough job. They were arrogant after all.

You also have to remember that jack designed and built that weapon from the ancient info he had in his head. He didnt have the specs for that weapon but he knew how the replicators were created which allowed him to design a weapon that would stop them.

I think everything ive said is correct. If it isnt, anyone feel free to correct me.

Hope this helps!

unknown.entity
September 17th, 2006, 05:56 AM
2) Space Bridge
Firstly the DHD on the Puddle Jumper would most likely power the Stargates. As for no point of origin - we don't know yet. But im pretty sure the writers arnt going to go frick the whole idea up.
The gate doesnt need to be near a planet - but simply in the proximity of the address being dialed.I fail to see how the Puddle Jumper's DHD could power up a bunch of Stargates going all the way to another galaxy. To power a stable wormhole between Pegasus & the Milky Way, a ZPM was required. So I would think that the cumulative energy required to power this "highway" of Stargates should also require an equivalent power source to a ZPM.

4) ATA + Ancientness
Just because you have a certain gene doesnt mean your an Ancient.
Just because you wear a generals uniform, does that make you a General? no.
People with the ATA gene are just 'advanced'/privelidged.
'Feifei' wasn't questioning whether McKay or Sheppard were Ancient or not, the question was, how could the Asurans distinguish between Ancient and Non-Ancient, since it clearly can't be the ATA gene. If you think it's ATA + 'Ancientness', then explain how the Asurans are able to detect this 'Ancientness'...

Davidtourniquet
September 17th, 2006, 06:08 AM
^ On the intergalactic bridge, they are activating each gate separately.
E.g activate gate 1, enter gate 1, exit gate one, activate gate 2, enter gate 2, exit gate 2 etc. It'll just be like stepping through the gate in the SGC and exiting on any planet with a gate.

On your 2nd point there, no where in progeny did I hear them say anything about detecting ancient and non-ancient.

In most cases the ata gene is only present in a handful of people naturally like O'neill and sheppard, hence direct descendants of the ancients.
Others with the ata gene have had gene therapy like mckay.
Their lineage would trace back to the weapon on dakara being used, when the ancients used it to spread humanity through the galaxy.
I have a theory about sheppard's abnormal power to use ancient tech. Basically I think both his parents had the gene (carriers of the gene) and when both came together the whole ata gene was completed. Probably wrong but possible, I'm not a biologist.

Seastallion
September 17th, 2006, 06:25 AM
I'm noticing a lot of inconsistencies in Stargate now...

For one... the puddle jumpers... how come they aren't equiped with hyperdrives? I mean, if the relatively small F-302 can create a hyperspace window, why can't the bigger, more advanced puddle jumper? After all, it is Atlantian technology, which is infinitely superior to the reverse-engineered little F-302.

Been explained well enough already.


Also... the stargate "highway" that they're implementing to be able to reach earth without the ZPM, what is powering these gates... and without a large body like a planet... what address would these gates have? It was established in SG-1 that they can't use a stargate unless it was near the proximity of a planet. They also show that the chevrons represent stars in the galaxy and through that, the gates can orient themselves.

And if each gate or planet has its own unique "origin" symbol, why not use those symbols instead of six chevrons?

The stargates use a virtual pan-galactic grid coordinate system, that does not require any actual celestial object to be present in a targeted area. Stargates need neither planets or stars to establish a lock. A stargate is usually located around these objects because it is convienent, and much more logical than gating to 'nowhere'. Addresses for each stargate would be calculated on known virtual coordinate points, which would direct the wormhole to the vicinity of the destination gate. It has NOT been established that a stargate needs to be near a planet to work. They don't. Nor do the chevrons represent stars. Supposedly, they represented constellations (not the same as stars) in the movie, but this is inconsistent with what we know about astronomy and astrocartography. It is far more likely (for plot purposes) that the constellations created by the ancient human's imaginations were based on the cheverons of the stargate instead. This is more likely because those same symbols were on the Antartic stargate which was dated as being around 50 Million years old, and the stars in the night sky would look nothing like they do now.

The reason they don't use the unique Point of Origin symbols on each gate is because there are potentially many thousands of stargates, and there are only 38 symbols to choose from on the stargate. Also, the Point of Origin symbol does NOT store the address of the outgoing gate. That is ridiculous. If you move the gate, how do you propose that the so-called 'stored' address of the outgoing gate would be changed to the new address? It doesn't work that way. Point of Origin symbols are activation keys, not much more than that. They tell the stargate that is being manually dialed that an address has been completely dialed and that it is time activate the stargate.


Additionally, what about the Atlantian replicators? It's obvious that the Ancients dealt with them before, otherwise O'neill couldn't have dug up the schematics for the weapon that disrupted the replicators' links. Wouldn't this weapon have COMPLETELY eraticated the replicators when the Atlantians decided to destroy them?

Not necessarily, but we need more info before we make any more assumptions. There are plenty of missing details to be answered before any of that can be considered factual. Until then, it is only speculation.


Also, the code that prevents the replicators from killing Ancients... how would it work exactly? It's not as if the replicators can immediately know if someone is an ancient? If it were merely the case of detecting the ATA gene, then wouldn't that mean they couldn't hurt Shepard or McKay?

Perhaps the other elements of advanced physiology are the true indicators of what allows an Asuran to determine who is 'Ancient' and who is not. I doubt the ATA gene was the only distinguishing factor. Advanced brain physiology is probably one give away for who are ancients, and who are humans. However, this has never been clarified either, so it could be something else too. Who knows?

(edit: Mispelling)

unknown.entity
September 17th, 2006, 06:28 AM
^ On the intergalactic bridge, they are activating each gate separately.
E.g activate gate 1, enter gate 1, exit gate one, activate gate 2, enter gate 2, exit gate 2 etc. It'll just be like stepping through the gate in the SGC and exiting on any planet with a gate.Yes, but the cumulative amount of energy required to create & exit multiple short wormholes all the way to the Milky Way galaxy should still require the equivalent amount of energy as creating a single wormhole straight to another galaxy, should it not? :S

Davidtourniquet
September 17th, 2006, 06:40 AM
Not really because the only energy required would be to open a gate separately. It would be far less to hold a wormhole open for 2 seconds over a distance of 100,000 light years than to hold it open for several seconds over the distance of pegasus to earth, thats why in the atlantis/earth case the zpm is needed and why the intergalactic case, a zpm isn't needed.
Tiny bursts compared to one long one and since PJs seem to have unlimited power to power gates in a galaxy, there is no reason the bridge wouldn't work.

Seastallion
September 17th, 2006, 07:16 AM
Also, keep in mind that all the stargates in the Space Bridge are spacegates from the Pegasus Galaxy each having its own onboard powersupply and position stabilizers. As far as the traveller on the Space Bridge is concerned they will have only made one short trip all the way across from their perspective. The bridge will utilize a modified 'call-forwarding' program, from the stargate they found on Anubis planet in 'Prototype'. In other words, the travellers will not be materialized until they get all the way across the bridge. The stargates will pass on their patterns one to the next, like a bucket-brigade line, until they reach the final gate in the bridge. So even though 30 minutes or so will have passed in real time, from the perspective of the travellers only a few seconds will have passed. The stargate on Earth is capable of establishing a wormhole that can reach the far edge of the galaxy without any additional power. The Space Bridge will simply do that same operation, only about 30 times at least, to cross the void between the two galaxies.

jds1982
September 17th, 2006, 08:12 AM
Also, keep in mind that all the stargates in the Space Bridge are spacegates from the Pegasus Galaxy each having its own onboard powersupply and position stabilizers. As far as the traveller on the Space Bridge is concerned they will have only made one short trip all the way across from their perspective. The bridge will utilize a modified 'call-forwarding' program, from the stargate they found on Anubis planet in 'Prototype'. In other words, the travellers will not be materialized until they get all the way across the bridge. The stargates will pass on their patterns one to the next, like a bucket-brigade line, until they reach the final gate in the bridge. So even though 30 minutes or so will have passed in real time, from the perspective of the travellers only a few seconds will have passed. The stargate on Earth is capable of establishing a wormhole that can reach the far edge of the galaxy without any additional power. The Space Bridge will simply do that same operation, only about 30 times at least, to cross the void between the two galaxies.

While I agree that this would be the most efficient way to do this, I'm curious if you have any proof of this, or if it's just speculation on your part. I don't remember them saying anything about call-forwarding when they brought up the intergalactic bridge, so if it's just speculation you may want to say it's just speculation.

Heaven
September 17th, 2006, 11:01 AM
about oneill and the replicator disruptor..
I doubt the Asurans work the same way but anyway..
oneill's mind was linked to the computer of thor's ship
presumably that's how he learned what he needed about the replicators
now combine that with ancient knowledge and the fact that the asgard
have "explored such a technology in the past with no success"
that should be enough to build the disruptor



The bridge will utilize a modified 'call-forwarding' program, from the stargate they found on Anubis planet in 'Prototype'.


that's a brilliant idea!
I just wish you'd use a spoiler tag (if its actually a spoiler) (don't tell me if it is ;) )

GreyFox
September 17th, 2006, 11:13 AM
for one they used pjs with the stargates.

the asurans are the progenitor to the replicators which were damn near indestructible. asuran replicators are suseptible to ronons guns somewhat

Merlin's_Legacy
September 17th, 2006, 12:31 PM
On the Galactic Bridge project, I'm assuming Carter is writing a completely new OS for the gate probably based on the works of Felger's Avenger virus and Baal's multi-gate dialing program, and possibly the program Baal created to thwart Avenger. It's obvious that they can rewrite stargate code fairly easily now. Baal was going to create a completely separate gate network inaccessible to the rest of the gates. Surely we can do the same.

As for powering the gates, it was said they will be refitted for space use. They would need stabilizers of some sort to keep them from drifting and it would be smart if they each had an automated Iris or Iris field so the logical choice for power is to put a regular Naquadah generator in one of the pods.

Isn't it now standard procedure for the FRED vehicle to carry a Naquadah generator in case the SG-team needs to manually dial a gate with a broken DHD?

Tassadar
September 17th, 2006, 01:35 PM
On the Galactic Bridge project, I'm assuming Carter is writing a completely new OS for the gate probably based on the works of Felger's Avenger virus and Baal's multi-gate dialing program, and possibly the program Baal created to thwart Avenger. It's obvious that they can rewrite stargate code fairly easily now. Baal was going to create a completely separate gate network inaccessible to the rest of the gates. Surely we can do the same.

As for powering the gates, it was said they will be refitted for space use. They would need stabilizers of some sort to keep them from drifting and it would be smart if they each had an automated Iris or Iris field so the logical choice for power is to put a regular Naquadah generator in one of the pods.

Isn't it now standard procedure for the FRED vehicle to carry a Naquadah generator in case the SG-team needs to manually dial a gate with a broken DHD?

Hm i'm not sure if they carry naquadah generators but i do remember something about them being able to use it to dial earth manually.

As for your idea about Carter writing new code for the bridge, i totally agree. we have seen her and others write new code for the gate so its not too far of a stretch to think they can make the bridge.

what i would like to see instead of just gates drifting in space, is little outposts. sort of like space stations near the gate system. this way they can monitor the surrounding space and can provide ample power to the gate. also they can start designing and testing new technologies for military and civilian use. they can have each space station doing different projects. what better place to keep top secret stuff hidden than in the vastness between galaxies. the only way anyone other than us and the Asgard to reach it is through our gate system. well maybe the ori too but chances are they wont be able to detect those outposts from the milky way. very good place to start implementing all those new techs we have pilled up over the years without letting the Trust or the Jaffa know about it.

jenks
September 17th, 2006, 03:41 PM
The PJ's have hyperdrives, they're just very slow compared to the Asgard's.

No they don't.

danitoz
September 17th, 2006, 08:46 PM
Anybody think the stargate bridge will be used by the Wraith to reach their new feeding ground? I don't see what's going to prevent them from using it..

Seastallion
September 17th, 2006, 09:49 PM
Anybody think the stargate bridge will be used by the Wraith to reach their new feeding ground? I don't see what's going to prevent them from using it..

A: They have to know it exists. They currently know nothing of it.

&

B: They have to know the codes to operate it.

Also... even if they did find out about it, it would only allow a few to get to the Milky Way at a time. They still lack the engines necessary to get there on their own. Also, I doubt the Bridge will take them directly to Earth. If it did the arriving Wraith wouldn't get far before being shot up, assuming they didn't crash into the wall of the gateroom first.

FallenAngelII
September 18th, 2006, 02:20 AM
Oh, for the love of puppies.

The gate network runs periodic updates to compensate for stellar drift. So if you move a gate, it'll compensate for it.

I mean, we used the Antarctic gate for quite a while and that was kinda a big move. Also, Ra took Earth's Stargate with him in "Moebius", probably to use somewhere.

And, hey, orbital Stargates! They orbit around the planets! We're talking hundreds of miles here.

The networks just update the coordinates and then we'll be able to dial the bridge.

Seastallion
September 18th, 2006, 04:46 AM
Oh, for the love of puppies.

The gate network runs periodic updates to compensate for stellar drift. So if you move a gate, it'll compensate for it.

I mean, we used the Antarctic gate for quite a while and that was kinda a big move. Also, Ra took Earth's Stargate with him in "Moebius", probably to use somewhere.

And, hey, orbital Stargates! They orbit around the planets! We're talking hundreds of miles here.

The networks just update the coordinates and then we'll be able to dial the bridge.

Um... Actually it isn't as simple as all that. The Stargate DOES run coorelative updates once every few centuries or so, to compensate for stellar motion in the galaxy, but that does NOT mean that stargates keep the same addresses if you move them around. The updates allow the stargate symbols which represent real points in space to continue working even after stars have changed positions within the galaxy. However, it doesn't allow a stargate be in any old place and still keep the same address regardless of where it is. The combination of stargate symbols act as targeting coordinates, which target an entire star system...! Not a planetary orbit, or a specific continent on a planet. You could run the stargate anywhere between Pluto and Mercury and the same address would always work. However, if you took the stargate to Alpha-Centauri, you would have a completely different address. Coorelative updates, not with standing.

FallenAngelII
September 18th, 2006, 09:16 AM
Um... Actually it isn't as simple as all that. The Stargate DOES run coorelative updates once every few centuries or so, to compensate for stellar motion in the galaxy, but that does NOT mean that stargates keep the same addresses if you move them around. The updates allow the stargate symbols which represent real points in space to continue working even after stars have changed positions within the galaxy. However, it doesn't allow a stargate be in any old place and still keep the same address regardless of where it is. The combination of stargate symbols act as targeting coordinates, which target an entire star system...! Not a planetary orbit, or a specific continent on a planet. You could run the stargate anywhere between Pluto and Mercury and the same address would always work. However, if you took the stargate to Alpha-Centauri, you would have a completely different address. Coorelative updates, not with standing.

We don't really know this, actually. All we know is that they run correalative updates and sometimes, if something big happens, like, say the Avengers virus, the gate dials other gates and it spreads like wildfire.

I'd assume that once you dial out with one gate, it'll force-update the network if you changed something.

Also, with the whole "Oh, but it's solar system-based" argument comes the conumdrum "But how big is a solar system as a unit?". Our sun, Sol, is pretty small in comparison to a lot of suns.

Seastallion
September 18th, 2006, 09:59 AM
We don't really know this, actually.

Pretty darn sure.


All we know is that they run correalative updates and sometimes, if something big happens, like, say the Avengers virus, the gate dials other gates and it spreads like wildfire.

It didn't actually start out as a virus per se. It was altered by Ba'al who altered it to access the coorelative update. It wouldn't have done that without Ba'al's interference.


I'd assume that once you dial out with one gate, it'll force-update the network if you changed something.

No that doesn't happen. It is a non-interactive feature of the stargate dialing program. You can dial a DHD all day long, and it won't trigger a coorelative update. It happens independently of DHD users.


Also, with the whole "Oh, but it's solar system-based" argument comes the conumdrum "But how big is a solar system as a unit?". Our sun, Sol, is pretty small in comparison to a lot of suns.

Solar systems have a generally similiar size, regardless of the size of the sun in the center. The sun's size and age might determine which planets in the star system are habitable (and thus where the stargate might be placed), but not overall distance calculations. The targeting program of the stargate works with stellar distances, not hundreds or thousands of miles. More like trillions of miles and even that may be too conservative. Stargate addresses probably work within a diameter of a lightyear or so of a targeted coordinate. As long as the stargate is somewhere within that target area, it will connect.

talyn2k1
September 18th, 2006, 10:17 AM
Also, keep in mind that all the stargates in the Space Bridge are spacegates from the Pegasus Galaxy each having its own onboard powersupply and position stabilizers. As far as the traveller on the Space Bridge is concerned they will have only made one short trip all the way across from their perspective. The bridge will utilize a modified 'call-forwarding' program, from the stargate they found on Anubis planet in 'Prototype'. In other words, the travellers will not be materialized until they get all the way across the bridge. The stargates will pass on their patterns one to the next, like a bucket-brigade line, until they reach the final gate in the bridge. So even though 30 minutes or so will have passed in real time, from the perspective of the travellers only a few seconds will have passed. The stargate on Earth is capable of establishing a wormhole that can reach the far edge of the galaxy without any additional power. The Space Bridge will simply do that same operation, only about 30 times at least, to cross the void between the two galaxies.


I can`t remember which episode the IGB first came up in but I`m sure Rodney said that they would have to zip through one gate in a puddle jumper, wait for the gate to shutdown and then dial the next gate in line.
While it would be a good idea to use 'call forwarding' I don`t believe that is how it is going to work.

And the gates being used in the IGB are Spacegates, meaning they have their own power supply and positioning thrusters to prevent them from drifting out of the coordinate zone.
Spacegates are not powered by Puddle Jumpers (unless there is an instance in episode where this happened and I missed it. In which case, feel free to enlighten me.)

Keeper
September 18th, 2006, 10:30 AM
random - remember they created a wormhole from an atlantis gate to the supergate, using the black hole as the power source?? i can't remember episode name, but it was SG1

why can't they just use that damn gate, or another similar power source and work like that?? sure, there's time-dilation to worry about, but it can't be that hard to compensate.

Seastallion
September 18th, 2006, 10:38 AM
I can`t remember which episode the IGB first came up in but I`m sure Rodney said that they would have to zip through one gate in a puddle jumper, wait for the gate to shutdown and then dial the next gate in line.
While it would be a good idea to use 'call forwarding' I don`t believe that is how it is going to work.

Actually, he didn't say that. I have the episode on my DVR, and what he said was that they would seed the gates between the two galaxies one after another until they reached the Milky Way. Your right that they didn't specifically say that the 'call forwarding' program would be used, but it seems most likely given the amount of time that was proposed. If they stopped at each and every gate, it would take much longer than 30 minutes. It would take at LEAST 30 gates to cross the void between the galaxies and probably more. To stop at each gate, wait for it to shut down and then go through the next would take hours. Even if we were to suggest that there were exactly 30 gates in the bridge, and it would only take 2 minutes of transit time to emerge, turn around, redial, and enter the gate again... it would still take at least an hour. Twice the amount of time that Rodney proposed. Also you'd have to have a huge list of gates to go through each time you crossed the void. That would be complicated. It is much easier to dial one gate, and then simply be forwarded to the next gate in the bridge until you reached the end.


And the gates being used in the IGB are Spacegates, meaning they have their own power supply and positioning thrusters to prevent them from drifting out of the coordinate zone.
Spacegates are not powered by Puddle Jumpers (unless there is an instance in episode where this happened and I missed it. In which case, feel free to enlighten me.)

I already said all that. :rolleyes:

FallenAngelII
September 18th, 2006, 11:09 AM
The bigger the sun, generally the higher the mass, the more the gravity, the larger the solar system. >_>'

TheBigFlush
September 18th, 2006, 01:46 PM
The Puddle Jumpers do NOT have hyperdrive. The only reason 302's have hyperdrive is because they are naquadria-based, and so the drive can be built much smaller. However since naquadria is super-unstable the drive is only used in emergencies, and even then, only over short distances.

The ancients had no need for the jumpers to have hyperdrive. If they couldn't get somewhere through a stargate, they had full-sized ships they could use.

talyn2k1
September 18th, 2006, 01:53 PM
Actually, he didn't say that. I have the episode on my DVR, and what he said was that they would seed the gates between the two galaxies one after another until they reached the Milky Way. Your right that they didn't specifically say that the 'call forwarding' program would be used, but it seems most likely given the amount of time that was proposed. If they stopped at each and every gate, it would take much longer than 30 minutes. It would take at LEAST 30 gates to cross the void between the galaxies and probably more. To stop at each gate, wait for it to shut down and then go through the next would take hours. Even if we were to suggest that there were exactly 30 gates in the bridge, and it would only take 2 minutes of transit time to emerge, turn around, redial, and enter the gate again... it would still take at least an hour. Twice the amount of time that Rodney proposed. Also you'd have to have a huge list of gates to go through each time you crossed the void. That would be complicated. It is much easier to dial one gate, and then simply be forwarded to the next gate in the bridge until you reached the end.



I already said all that. :rolleyes:

My bad. Another of those false memories appearing, maybe I should ask the Galarans to do something about that :)

I realised you`d said it after I posted but I figured having it said twice wouldn`t hurt as some people manage to miss it the first time if they don`t really want to see it!

Star Fox
September 18th, 2006, 02:11 PM
welcome to the world of movies and Television

feifei
September 18th, 2006, 02:20 PM
The ancients had no need for the jumpers to have hyperdrive. If they couldn't get somewhere through a stargate, they had full-sized ships they could use.

That's true enough, but the PJs are perfect recon vehicles, as evidenced by their cloaking technology. And this is Ancient technology, which is far superior to Asgard or Goa'uld technology. They wouldn't need naquadria. In addition, since these PJs are great recon ships, it would stand to reason that such a vessel would have a great degree of autonomy-not being so dependent on the stargate.

As far as the pan-galactic stargate highway goes... again, if you watch the last episode of stargate sg-1 season 1, you would know that the stargate on the mothership would not work without being near a planet already in the stargate network, which is why they could not use it to escape mid-journey. The orbital gates as frequently seen in Atlantis also follows this principle as these gates are very close to their respective planets. With no such planets or points recognized by the stargate network... how could the establish a lock on a gate? These gates will be in a region of space where there are few stars (between galaxies). What address of chevrons could possibly go with a gate that floats in a region not properly oriented among stars that aren't part of either galaxy?

Also, If O'neill was able to come up with means to defeat the replicators, it would stand to reason that the Ancients had dealt with replicator technology before. While it is true that the actual weapon schematic was not in the Ancient database, the fact that O'neill could extrapolate such a device that uses the exact frequency needed to disrupt the replicators from his Ancient knowledge means that the Ancients had already come up with this technology.

You should also note that in "Progeny," Liam says "...and since their scientists included a directive prohibiting us from ever harming them..."

This implies that the replicators had a means to distinguish Ancients from humans. And the nano-virus earlier in the series only attacked people without the ATA gene. There is no other evidence so far as established by the show that Ancient technology (replicators included) have any other means of distinguishing an Ancient from a human other than the ATA gene. It also stands to reason that the Ancients, at the time they created their technology, ever concieved the idea that the ATA gene could be passed onto other species, namely humans, with which they intermingled and interbred with. But by the time they did so, they had long abandoned Atlantis and all its subsquent technology, which means they could not have made any revisions to how their technology identified them, especially the replicators.

TheBigFlush
September 18th, 2006, 02:50 PM
You should also note that in "Progeny," Liam says "...and since their scientists included a directive prohibiting us from ever harming them..."


Just a question... Does he actually say that this directive works based on the ATA gene? Maybe it was more generic than that.

Davidtourniquet
September 18th, 2006, 03:34 PM
That's true enough, but the PJs are perfect recon vehicles, as evidenced by their cloaking technology. And this is Ancient technology, which is far superior to Asgard or Goa'uld technology. They wouldn't need naquadria. In addition, since these PJs are great recon ships, it would stand to reason that such a vessel would have a great degree of autonomy-not being so dependent on the stargate.

As far as the pan-galactic stargate highway goes... again, if you watch the last episode of stargate sg-1 season 1, you would know that the stargate on the mothership would not work without being near a planet already in the stargate network, which is why they could not use it to escape mid-journey. The orbital gates as frequently seen in Atlantis also follows this principle as these gates are very close to their respective planets. With no such planets or points recognized by the stargate network... how could the establish a lock on a gate? These gates will be in a region of space where there are few stars (between galaxies). What address of chevrons could possibly go with a gate that floats in a region not properly oriented among stars that aren't part of either galaxy?

Also, If O'neill was able to come up with means to defeat the replicators, it would stand to reason that the Ancients had dealt with replicator technology before. While it is true that the actual weapon schematic was not in the Ancient database, the fact that O'neill could extrapolate such a device that uses the exact frequency needed to disrupt the replicators from his Ancient knowledge means that the Ancients had already come up with this technology.

You should also note that in "Progeny," Liam says "...and since their scientists included a directive prohibiting us from ever harming them..."

This implies that the replicators had a means to distinguish Ancients from humans. And the nano-virus earlier in the series only attacked people without the ATA gene. There is no other evidence so far as established by the show that Ancient technology (replicators included) have any other means of distinguishing an Ancient from a human other than the ATA gene. It also stands to reason that the Ancients, at the time they created their technology, ever concieved the idea that the ATA gene could be passed onto other species, namely humans, with which they intermingled and interbred with. But by the time they did so, they had long abandoned Atlantis and all its subsquent technology, which means they could not have made any revisions to how their technology identified them, especially the replicators.

I thought in S1 they couldn't dial out because they were moving in hyperspace.

NoDot
September 18th, 2006, 05:11 PM
^^ You are correct.

ur uncle urgo
September 18th, 2006, 06:47 PM
Oh, for the love of puppies.

The gate network runs periodic updates to compensate for stellar drift. So if you move a gate, it'll compensate for it.

I mean, we used the Antarctic gate for quite a while and that was kinda a big move. Also, Ra took Earth's Stargate with him in "Moebius", probably to use somewhere.

And, hey, orbital Stargates! They orbit around the planets! We're talking hundreds of miles here.

The networks just update the coordinates and then we'll be able to dial the bridge.


do they really need to update with such a small move (compared to others) i think anything on the same planet or even atnosphere will use the same gate addtress as any where on the planet

Seastallion
September 18th, 2006, 06:51 PM
The bigger the sun, generally the higher the mass, the more the gravity, the larger the solar system. >_>'

Except that when you are dealing with a variable as large as stellar distances, such differences are inconsequential. If a stargate will work within a lightyear of said targeted area, star system sizes won't make much difference.

Myth
September 18th, 2006, 06:56 PM
Solar systems have a generally similiar size, regardless of the size of the sun in the center. The sun's size and age might determine which planets in the star system are habitable (and thus where the stargate might be placed), but not overall distance calculations. The targeting program of the stargate works with stellar distances, not hundreds or thousands of miles. More like trillions of miles and even that may be too conservative. Stargate addresses probably work within a diameter of a lightyear or so of a targeted coordinate. As long as the stargate is somewhere within that target area, it will connect.

Solar systems are not generally similar in size. Not often enough for this to work out, at the very least. The stargate also doesn't work entirely on stellar distances. If so, they wouldn't have been able to jump from one gate to another when there was more than one gate on Earth. Obviously it can be controlled on a finer level, even if we have limited understanding of how to do so.

I've always had a problem with how the gate dials. I know they're stuck with it because of the movie, but using groups of stars as 'points' to determine the endpoint is like aiming a shotgun at a binder ring. It's just not feasible for a civilization so advanced to come up with an idea like this Or to leave it at that point, at least. Take IP networking as an example. It's so superior in so many ways. And the next generation of it is even better. Yet the Ancients had to use such a brute force guess to try to find a gate at the other end? It just doesn't fit. I always wished early on that they'd think of a way to fix it, but I guess they didn't think it would get so far at the time and saw no need. With Atlantis, I thought they'd explain how the gate on Earth was of an early, limited design and that the Atlantis ones worked on a better system, but unfortunately, that didn't happen either.

I'm hoping that the knowledge that the symbols actually spell words will somehow come into it. This could be problematic because if I remember the movie and early episodes right, they actually plotted out the location of the endpoint based on the symbols which wouldn't jive with a name-based system. This would be like a DNS concept, though, which would be much better than the 7-point concept. But, this could mean that the Ancients were able to say the name of the destination rather than dialing in the traditional sense, which seems much more on their level.

Seastallion
September 18th, 2006, 07:50 PM
Solar systems are not generally similar in size. Not often enough for this to work out, at the very least. The stargate also doesn't work entirely on stellar distances. If so, they wouldn't have been able to jump from one gate to another when there was more than one gate on Earth. Obviously it can be controlled on a finer level, even if we have limited understanding of how to do so.

God... This thread is starting to turn into the 'Point of Origin' threads. Stargates DO work at stellar distances. The reason they could have two gates on Earth was because the Russians had a DHD that gave their stargate priority when hooked to the stargate. However, when they screwed up, the SGC couldn't use its stargate because you can NOT use more than one stargate in the same star system at the same time. This is because the targeting system is NOT that refined.


I've always had a problem with how the gate dials. I know they're stuck with it because of the movie, but using groups of stars as 'points' to determine the endpoint is like aiming a shotgun at a binder ring. It's just not feasible for a civilization so advanced to come up with an idea like this Or to leave it at that point, at least. Take IP networking as an example. It's so superior in so many ways. And the next generation of it is even better. Yet the Ancients had to use such a brute force guess to try to find a gate at the other end? It just doesn't fit. I always wished early on that they'd think of a way to fix it, but I guess they didn't think it would get so far at the time and saw no need. With Atlantis, I thought they'd explain how the gate on Earth was of an early, limited design and that the Atlantis ones worked on a better system, but unfortunately, that didn't happen either.

*sigh* ('PoO' threads flasback again) Back to plot filling theories for your satisfaction and edification. Seeing as the Stargate found in Antartica that was dated at 50 Million Years old, the Star constellations of 5,000 years ago would NOT have existed back then, because of stellar drift. Star Constellations are imaginary drawings using stars as 'connect-the-dot' points to place said pictures. That being said, it is not outside the realm of possibility that the ancient humans of Earth might have used the Stargate symbols to make constellations, instead of the other way around. Ah! It begins to make sense..! So you see then... the symbols do NOT represent star constellations, rather they represent virtual points in space based upon a pan galactic virtual grid that the stargate uses to target other gates. The combined gate symbols indicate the position to which the wormhole is directed. Those positions are usually in the vicinity of a star system, but they don't necessarily have to be. The process is similiar to throwing a lasso. You have to determine distance, elevation, and direction. The same is true of the stargate, except that your dealing with an entire galaxy for your targeting. Also, like a lasso, the end is an open loop that the opposite stargate catches, and the loop closes around it. It doesn't have to be accurate enough to determine a planetary orbit. Where ever the target stargate is within a star system, it will catch the incoming wormhole.


I'm hoping that the knowledge that the symbols actually spell words will somehow come into it. This could be problematic because if I remember the movie and early episodes right, they actually plotted out the location of the endpoint based on the symbols which wouldn't jive with a name-based system. This would be like a DNS concept, though, which would be much better than the 7-point concept. But, this could mean that the Ancients were able to say the name of the destination rather than dialing in the traditional sense, which seems much more on their level.

This simply means that stargate addresses can create words that can be used as actual names. It is quicker to say a word or two (that inherently spell out an address), than to spell out each symbol individually. It's an efficiency of time and effort thing. Of course, this means that a stargate location won't always keep the same name. Eventually, it will change depending upon its new location.

sandyer
September 18th, 2006, 08:15 PM
God... This thread is starting to turn into the 'Point of Origin' threads. Stargates DO work at stellar distances. The reason they could have two gates on Earth was because the Russians had a DHD that gave their stargate priority when hooked to the stargate. However, when they screwed up, the SGC couldn't use its stargate because you can NOT use more than one stargate in the same star system at the same time. This is because the targeting system is NOT that refined.

This is just a thought. When we dialed Earth why didn't we get taken by the Antartic gate as it had the DHD? On second thought I'll make a new thread for this.

Seastallion
September 18th, 2006, 09:49 PM
This is just a thought. When we dialed Earth why didn't we get taken by the Antartic gate as it had the DHD? On second thought I'll make a new thread for this.

As I understand it, it isn't JUST that the DHD is connected to the Stargate, it also requires a dialing out to give a particluar stargate priority over another. The last gate to be used otherwise, has priority. The Russians had to work under a very complicated timing schedule. They had to work around the SGC to keep them from discovering the Russian program. Fortuneatly they had a mole to provide them with the SGC schedules and they would connect the DHD and dial out to there teams to confirm return trips and then disconnect the DHD to return priority back the the SGC stargate. Even this had to be timed right, so that they could be sure that the SGC would dial out before an SG team returned. Eventually, the Russians were going to be found out no matter what they did. It was unreasonable to expect that they could've done it in secret indefinitely. As did happen, eventually something would give them away.

Myth
September 18th, 2006, 10:33 PM
Wow..there's always at least one of them. Those who want so much to feel they understand that they no longer question. So, here we go...


God... This thread is starting to turn into the 'Point of Origin' threads. Stargates DO work at stellar distances. The reason they could have two gates on Earth was because the Russians had a DHD that gave their stargate priority when hooked to the stargate. However, when they screwed up, the SGC couldn't use its stargate because you can NOT use more than one stargate in the same star system at the same time. This is because the targeting system is NOT that refined.

Stargates can be used in the same solar system at the same time, just not actually in use at the same time. This is more likely a safeguard to prevent the planet being ripped apart than a limitation of the gate dialing. Just as the gate, by default, will prevent you from going through or too close to a star. Other gates have been used successfully in our solar system, on Earth while the SGC gate was active, just not being used at that moment. At one point, they picked up the power surge that sent the stream to the second gate. This is how they realized that the gate was being used. And part of my point is that the targeting system should be that refined and obviously could be. A couple of underground earth scientists figured out what the Ancients couldn't?

And what made the SGC gate the ‘preferred’ gate? It’s not the last gate that was dialed out as was shown in Touchstone when they send the MALP back through after forcing it to go to the second gate by intentionally increasing the power. Why didn’t it defer to one of the other gates originally? The SGC gate doesn’t even have a DHD, so what makes it so special?


*sigh* ('PoO' threads flasback again) Back to plot filling theories for your satisfaction and edification. Seeing as the Stargate found in Antartica that was dated at 50 Million Years old, the Star constellations of 5,000 years ago would NOT have existed back then, because of stellar drift. Star Constellations are imaginary drawings using stars as 'connect-the-dot' points to place said pictures. That being said, it is not outside the realm of possibility that the ancient humans of Earth might have used the Stargate symbols to make constellations, instead of the other way around. Ah! It begins to make sense..! So you see then... the symbols do NOT represent star constellations, rather they represent virtual points in space based upon a pan galactic virtual grid that the stargate uses to target other gates. The combined gate symbols indicate the position to which the wormhole is directed. Those positions are usually in the vicinity of a star system, but they don't necessarily have to be. The process is similiar to throwing a lasso. You have to determine distance, elevation, and direction. The same is true of the stargate, except that your dealing with an entire galaxy for your targeting. Also, like a lasso, the end is an open loop that the opposite stargate catches, and the loop closes around it. It doesn't have to be accurate enough to determine a planetary orbit. Where ever the target stargate is within a star system, it will catch the incoming wormhole.

Some of us are as much fans of the science as the fiction. And regardless of whether based on constellations or any other system, you're trying to tell me that they measured the galaxy in 38 integer-based divisions? They couldn't get any more precise than that? That would have severely limited the number of worlds they could place gates on as vast areas of space would have been skipped over between gates. Not to mention that due to drift, solar systems could be out of reach for vast amounts of time while it was in limbo between coordinate points. It just doesn't fit. The coordinate system that is used is just outright stupid from a scientific standpoint. It shows not even a rudimentary understanding of geometry, yet alone the obviously higher levels of math necessary to do this. This could have been avoided if not for sticking with the explanation of it given in the movie. Plus you mention these as being 'virtual' points. They'd have to be more than just 'virtual' points in order for it to work at all. They'd have to correspond to something. Most likely stellar masses. Hence the necessary updates to deal with the drift (which also makes little sense as the drift could be calculated. The problem is that the 'box' coordinate system wouldn't work in that situation because the coordinate points wouldn't stay within a box model.

As for your ‘lasso’, A gate can dial another gate where the DHD is destroyed and not powering the gate, so it has been established that the endpoint doesn’t have to be powered. So how is it that the wormhole on the other end ‘grabs’ the ‘lasso’?

This also goes against the possibility of the intergalactic bridge working in Atlantis as the gates are obviously going to be in the same solar system as if they had to travel through a solar system on a puddle jumper, a great deal of time would be lost moving between them. It wouldn’t be the ‘30 minute’ trip.


The stargate wormhole avoids traveling through stars. So it's not just shot out in a given direction blindly. All solar systems have at least one star, so it obviously doesn’t just avoid all stars by knowing where the solar system is. It would have to know where the star is in the solar system to accomplish this. So if it can find the star in a solar system, that’s at least one level finer of control than your theory allows for. It’s obviously not as ‘blind’ as you would like it to be.


This simply means that stargate addresses can create words that can be used as actual names. It is quicker to say a word or two (that inherently spell out an address), than to spell out each symbol individually. It's an efficiency of time and effort thing. Of course, this means that a stargate location won't always keep the same name. Eventually, it will change depending upon its new location.

Again, this makes no sense whatsoever. Why spell something out, essentially giving it a name, if that name would change? It makes far more sense to use the name only as a reference to the gate address, as DNS is used to refer to IP addresses. Also, after O’Neill downloaded the library the second time, he referred to places by name, which happened to be their gate address. He also identified Atlantis by name. And as with any character to sound translation, you couldn’t just mix together any characters to form words. There are constructs. So in order for it to spell out words and not just be nonsensical, they’d have had to pick 38 characters where any 7 of them would always spell something that wasn’t nonsense. Otherwise, translated into English, you’d end up with gate addresses like cvtkdhl. Pronouncing that would not be easier or more efficient than spelling it.

So, in closing, if sighing and the arrogant tone to your message is all that you can muster in an adult discussion about the science behind the show, then I’d suggest just not reading the “Science and Tech” boards of the forum.

I apologize in advance if my message comes off in the same way, but I tend to return what I’m given.

Seastallion
September 19th, 2006, 12:17 AM
Wow..there's always at least one of them. Those who want so much to feel they understand that they no longer question. So, here we go... Stargates can be used in the same solar system at the same time, just not actually in use at the same time.

:rolleyes: Huh?! Please. Read the portion in italics again. Think about it. Then think about what I said. "You can't use two stargates in the same star system at the same time". Hmmm.


This is more likely a safeguard to prevent the planet being ripped apart than a limitation of the gate dialing. Just as the gate, by default, will prevent you from going through or too close to a star. Other gates have been used successfully in our solar system, on Earth while the SGC gate was active, just not being used at that moment. At one point, they picked up the power surge that sent the stream to the second gate. This is how they realized that the gate was being used. And part of my point is that the targeting system should be that refined and obviously could be. A couple of underground earth scientists figured out what the Ancients couldn't?

Hmmm... You were doing just fine until you reached the italic portion of that paragraph. Then you were just plain wrong. 'Stargate was active, just not being used'. That is a completely contradictory statement. If the stargate is active, it IS being used. The reason the SGC found out the Russians were using their own Stargate was because the Russians told them. All they knew before that was that the Stargate in the SGC simply wouldn't dial out.


And what made the SGC gate the ‘preferred’ gate? It’s not the last gate that was dialed out as was shown in Touchstone when they send the MALP back through after forcing it to go to the second gate by intentionally increasing the power. Why didn’t it defer to one of the other gates originally? The SGC gate doesn’t even have a DHD, so what makes it so special?

:rolleyes: *sigh* *groan* I'm sorry, but what are you smoking? Let's recap. SG-1 dials Medrona (the planet where the Touchstone is) from the SGC... then they dial back immediately upon arrival. *gasp* They reconnected with the SGC..! (Maybe because that was the last gate to be dial out from on Earth? Hmmm.) Then, they overload the gate on purpose to cause the wormhole to jump to the nearest and ONLY other stargate on Earth. Back to your question... 'Why didn't it defer to one of the other gates originally?' Because the SGC gate was the last one to dial out. Also, there weren't ANY other stargates on Earth except for the one that was supposed to be at Area 51, and it hadn't dialed out since the SGC gate did. The Russians had not yet obtained the original gate still being used at the SGC. They had obtained the DHD seperately from the Stargate they retrieved out of the ocean. That gate being the same one in use at the SGC in the episode 'Touchstone'. :rolleyes:


Some of us are as much fans of the science as the fiction. And regardless of whether based on constellations or any other system, you're trying to tell me that they measured the galaxy in 38 integer-based divisions? They couldn't get any more precise than that? That would have severely limited the number of worlds they could place gates on as vast areas of space would have been skipped over between gates. Not to mention that due to drift, solar systems could be out of reach for vast amounts of time while it was in limbo between coordinate points. It just doesn't fit. The coordinate system that is used is just outright stupid from a scientific standpoint. It shows not even a rudimentary understanding of geometry, yet alone the obviously higher levels of math necessary to do this. This could have been avoided if not for sticking with the explanation of it given in the movie. Plus you mention these as being 'virtual' points. They'd have to be more than just 'virtual' points in order for it to work at all. They'd have to correspond to something. Most likely stellar masses. Hence the necessary updates to deal with the drift (which also makes little sense as the drift could be calculated. The problem is that the 'box' coordinate system wouldn't work in that situation because the coordinate points wouldn't stay within a box model.

I don't even want to touch this. The reason I was 'coming off arrogant' is because I've covered this topic EXHAUSTIVELY already, and I'm loathe to do it again. That is why I said "God... This is starting to turn into the Point of Origin threads" Meaning there is more than one thread on this topic already, and I'm sick of covering the same stuff over and over again. I fully realize that everyone hasn't covered it as exhaustively as I have, but even so I get tired of repeating the same stuff. I apologize for that.

If you want an answer to this portion of your post, then I suggest checking out this thread- http://forum.gateworld.net/showthread.php?t=22291


As for your ‘lasso’, A gate can dial another gate where the DHD is destroyed and not powering the gate, so it has been established that the endpoint doesn’t have to be powered. So how is it that the wormhole on the other end ‘grabs’ the ‘lasso’?

Duh. To answer your one question, it is because it is the only technology in the star system that would be affected by an incoming wormhole. Wormholes are created by electrical energy being converted into gravimetric energy, and then sent through subspace to the coordinates given. The Naquada (of which stargates are largely made) has the property of being able to absorb gravitimetric energy and convert it to electrical energy. Thus the targeted gate is powered by outgoing gate. magic!


This also goes against the possibility of the intergalactic bridge working in Atlantis as the gates are obviously going to be in the same solar system as if they had to travel through a solar system on a puddle jumper, a great deal of time would be lost moving between them. It wouldn’t be the ‘30 minute’ trip.

What the hell are you talking about? I'm not going to bother answering this one either. Go read one of the other threads about the IGB. :rolleyes:


The stargate wormhole avoids traveling through stars. So it's not just shot out in a given direction blindly. All solar systems have at least one star, so it obviously doesn’t just avoid all stars by knowing where the solar system is. It would have to know where the star is in the solar system to accomplish this. So if it can find the star in a solar system, that’s at least one level finer of control than your theory allows for. It’s obviously not as ‘blind’ as you would like it to be.

I never said it was blind. I said it was using a virtual model of the entire galaxy. You don't think a stargate is advanced enough to be able to tell a DHD not to allow a dial if something is wrong? This only happens extremely infrequently because of the angle at which a wormhole is travelling. Usually the DHD would compensate for it by not allowing a dial out to those addresses which would take the wormhole through that area. However, the SGC computer ignores some of the data from the Stargate, causing them to screw up a few times. Given that a star is the strongest source of gravity in a solar system, I'm reasonably sure that the Stargate can tell where it is, in relation to the area in which a wormhole is being targeted. Local conditions can be detectable by stargates, and still use the above method of targeting. I also see no reason that the target gate couldn't tell the outgoing gate of conditions in its own vicinity, thus preventing a lock. However, again, the SGC dialing computer causes abnormal problems with the system on occaison. If they'd had a DHD, the episodes 'Red Sky' and 'A Matter of Time' would never have happened.


Again, this makes no sense whatsoever. Why spell something out, essentially giving it a name, if that name would change? It makes far more sense to use the name only as a reference to the gate address, as DNS is used to refer to IP addresses. Also, after O’Neill downloaded the library the second time, he referred to places by name, which happened to be their gate address. He also identified Atlantis by name. And as with any character to sound translation, you couldn’t just mix together any characters to form words. There are constructs. So in order for it to spell out words and not just be nonsensical, they’d have had to pick 38 characters where any 7 of them would always spell something that wasn’t nonsense. Otherwise, translated into English, you’d end up with gate addresses like cvtkdhl. Pronouncing that would not be easier or more efficient than spelling it.

First, in response to the italicized portion of your paragraph... If you recall, in that same episode ('The Fifth Race') O'Neill also revealed a revolutionary new equation for calculating the position of celestial bodies. This MEANS, that the old addresses required a calculation to determine their new addresses. The equation allowed the SGC computer to do it in record time, thus giving them immediate access to those new addresses. Before that, if you recall ('Children of the Gods') the SGC computer could only calculate a couple of new addresses per month based on the Abydos Cartouche. As to the spoken portion of the stargate symbols... You wouldn't be obligated to use them, but you could. We don't even know how often the Ancients used the system, as it obviously wasn't the written language system they used normally. It was probably just a quick reference tool when discussing planets, not an integral part of their written language.


So, in closing, if sighing and the arrogant tone to your message is all that you can muster in an adult discussion about the science behind the show, then I’d suggest just not reading the “Science and Tech” boards of the forum.

I apologize in advance if my message comes off in the same way, but I tend to return what I’m given.

As I said before, my tone was (and is) a by-product of having the same exact conversation over and over again. I'm exhausted on it. My frustration wasn't against you personally, just that it is a topic that keeps coming up and as I said, I'm exhausted. If you read the thread I linked to above, I think you'll see why. If you'd written that much (and not on just one thread) over and over again, you'd be annoyed about it too.

As to my being on the 'Science and Tech' subforum... I've been here quite a longer time than you. I'm not usually so impatient about a topic, but this one in particular has really gotten under my skin. For the reasons stated above. I want to apologize to you personally, for my tone about it, but I hope you will understand my frustration. I want to apologize to everyone in general about it for the same reasons. I'm not going to discuss this particular topic on this thread any longer. I'm exhausted. :(

Myth
September 19th, 2006, 08:50 AM
<have to break this into two parts due to size>


:rolleyes: Huh?! Please. Read the portion in italics again. Think about it. Then think about what I said. "You can't use two stargates in the same star system at the same time". Hmmm.
And as I said, this is far more likely a safeguard than a limitation.


Hmmm... You were doing just fine until you reached the italic portion of that paragraph. Then you were just plain wrong. 'Stargate was active, just not being used'. That is a completely contradictory statement. If the stargate is active, it IS being used. The reason the SGC found out the Russians were using their own Stargate was because the Russians told them. All they knew before that was that the Stargate in the SGC simply wouldn't dial out.
No, active means that it's active in the gate network, ie it can be dialed. You're trying to focus on semantics in order to avoid the fact that I showed why your idea of how the stargate connects is fundamentally flawed. Bottom line, you can pick a gate on a planet to connect to. That level of control is possible. It was done in Touchstone.


:rolleyes: *sigh* *groan* I'm sorry, but what are you smoking? Let's recap. SG-1 dials Medrona (the planet where the Touchstone is) from the SGC... then they dial back immediately upon arrival. *gasp* They reconnected with the SGC..! (Maybe because that was the last gate to be dial out from on Earth? Hmmm.) Then, they overload the gate on purpose to cause the wormhole to jump to the nearest and ONLY other stargate on Earth. Back to your question... 'Why didn't it defer to one of the other gates originally?' Because the SGC gate was the last one to dial out. Also, there weren't ANY other stargates on Earth except for the one that was supposed to be at Area 51, and it hadn't dialed out since the SGC gate did. The Russians had not yet obtained the original gate still being used at the SGC. They had obtained the DHD seperately from the Stargate they retrieved out of the ocean. That gate being the same one in use at the SGC in the episode 'Touchstone'. :rolleyes:
Whether it was the ONLY other stargate on Earth, the fact that there is more than ONE means that you can SELECT which of the TWO stargates on the same PLANET you can CONNECT to. See? I can use caps too. So, again, it has been established that you can select which gate of two in a given solar system to connect to. So, again, the level of control can be more fine-tuned than a solar system. In fact, with good communication between two gate locations, you could use them seemlessly all the time without any problems. Because you can select which gate to go to.




I don't even want to touch this. The reason I was 'coming off arrogant' is because I've covered this topic EXHAUSTIVELY already, and I'm loathe to do it again. That is why I said "God... This is starting to turn into the Point of Origin threads" Meaning there is more than one thread on this topic already, and I'm sick of covering the same stuff over and over again. I fully realize that everyone hasn't covered it as exhaustively as I have, but even so I get tired of repeating the same stuff. I apologize for that.
You obviously haven't covered this part of it exhaustively enough because you came to the conclusion that it was limited only to connecting to a solar system. The fact that they could force another gate to respond means that it could be controlled. The factors required for the control are irrelevant. Even if one gate automatically took precedence, it would be possible to automate the procedure of getting the gates to open based on a minor power fluctuation (ever heard of distinctive ring?) And the idea that the Ancients wouldn't have been aware of this and couldn't have modeled it in such a way to make it work under these circumstances just doesn't fit for a race supposedly so advanced.

Now, I'd be willing to accept the explanation that the gate, while amazing to us, may have simply been a way for the Ancients to go to their favorite vacation spots and that's why they chose to use such a limited system. But you have yet to provide any scientific reasoning, within the confines of the Stargate universe or otherwise, that explains why they would do it this way.

And if you're not equipped to deal with the topic, as mentioned before, I suggest staying out of the Science and Tech threads since they're likely to be about Science and Technology. Scientists who think like you that once they come to a conclusion that they like that no other one is possible are the ones who slow the progress of science down. I don't care if there's a million posts from a million people about this. Person 1,000,001 may have a new, valid idea about it.


If you want an answer to this portion of your post, then I suggest checking out this thread- http://forum.gateworld.net/showthread.php?t=22291


As I said before, how many times it gets brought up is irrelevant as it doesn't negate that someone may have a new idea that holds true. If we went along with the idea that science as we know it should never be questioned, we'd have not Stargate on TV because we wouldn't have Television in our caves.


Duh. To answer your one question, it is because it is the only technology in the star system that would be affected by an incoming wormhole. Wormholes are created by electrical energy being converted into gravimetric energy, and then sent through subspace to the coordinates given. The Naquada (of which stargates are largely made) has the property of being able to absorb gravitimetric energy and convert it to electrical energy. Thus the targeted gate is powered by outgoing gate. magic!

The only technology in the star system that would be affected? You're joking, right? You think a race so advanced would leave something that could rip a hole in the universe to chance? Orlin built a stargate out of spare parts and stuff he mail ordered. If he weren't an ancient, but just came across the plans for the device or even had developed it himself, and screwed something up, he could have destroyed the gate network in the blink of an eye. Now while the Ancients had every reason to believe that the people on Earth were too far away from achieving this to worry about this planet, races like the Nox, the Asgard and the Furlings (the other members of the Alliance) would have been much further ahead.

Also, the gates won't activate if another wormhole is nearby. This means that the gates are aware of the wormhole. Whether or not it's the gate itself or the dialer that accomplishes this, combined with the fact that it will avoid traveling through stars (which we know to be dialer related), means that it's a 'smart' system. So there's no reason with all of these factors that it couldn't be made to work.

Myth
September 19th, 2006, 08:50 AM
<part 2>


What the hell are you talking about? I'm not going to bother answering this one either. Go read one of the other threads about the IGB. :rolleyes:
Don't need to, the science wouldn't change.


I never said it was blind. I said it was using a virtual model of the entire galaxy. You don't think a stargate is advanced enough to be able to tell a DHD not to allow a dial if something is wrong? This only happens extremely infrequently because of the angle at which a wormhole is travelling. Usually the DHD would compensate for it by not allowing a dial out to those addresses which would take the wormhole through that area. However, the SGC computer ignores some of the data from the Stargate, causing them to screw up a few times. Given that a star is the strongest source of gravity in a solar system, I'm reasonably sure that the Stargate can tell where it is, in relation to the area in which a wormhole is being targeted. Local conditions can be detectable by stargates, and still use the above method of targeting. I also see no reason that the target gate couldn't tell the outgoing gate of conditions in its own vicinity, thus preventing a lock. However, again, the SGC dialing computer causes abnormal problems with the system on occaison. If they'd had a DHD, the episodes 'Red Sky' and 'A Matter of Time' would never have happened.
How does it tell where it is in relation to the wormhole? If you want to admit that you don't know and it's just your theory, then feel free. But if you can't answer the how's, then don't claim to have the answer. And certainly don't condescend to others who might. Here's a shocker...you could actually be wrong. If not for your sighing and the tone of your messages, I'd be pointing out valid points that you've made instead of dissecting it.

So, how can local conditions be detectable by stargates? What of the issue that if it's the endpoint gate that tells the originating gate about issues like where the stars are, then how does it do so without the wormhole having already traveled through the star? Or are you saying that the originating wormhole can detect the local conditions at the endpoint? If so, how does it do so before sending the signal to the endpoint gate?



First, in response to the italicized portion of your paragraph... If you recall, in that same episode ('The Fifth Race') O'Neill also revealed a revolutionary new equation for calculating the position of celestial bodies. This MEANS, that the old addresses required a calculation to determine their new addresses. The equation allowed the SGC computer to do it in record time, thus giving them immediate access to those new addresses. Before that, if you recall ('Children of the Gods') the SGC computer could only calculate a couple of new addresses per month based on the Abydos Cartouche. As to the spoken portion of the stargate symbols... You wouldn't be obligated to use them, but you could. We don't even know how often the Ancients used the system, as it obviously wasn't the written language system they used normally. It was probably just a quick reference tool when discussing planets, not an integral part of their written language.
So why do the DHD's require updates? The computer at the SGC was capable of running the equation, but the dhd's created by the ancients couldn't? And now you're referring to more ideas and theory. Sounds more and more like you haven't actually solved all of the mysteries of the Stargate. Amazing. But you still haven't suggested anythign to discount my DNS theory. Maybe they weren't technically planet names, per se, but names for points in space. It still fits.




As I said before, my tone was (and is) a by-product of having the same exact conversation over and over again. I'm exhausted on it. My frustration wasn't against you personally, just that it is a topic that keeps coming up and as I said, I'm exhausted. If you read the thread I linked to above, I think you'll see why. If you'd written that much (and not on just one thread) over and over again, you'd be annoyed about it too.
I'd never be annoyed at considering new possibilities. If I didn't feel a topic was worth getting involved in again, I just wouldn't get involved. But, I also wouldn't sigh and roll my eyes because someone said something that didn't agree with what I thought. I would try to prove my point but accept it if they proved theirs. I can see that you've been here much longer than I (at least as a forum member as I was reading Gateworld for a lot longer than I've been participating in the forums) and there are probably a lot of details that you've gone over many times that have held up over time. But rather than citing examples of where I was mistaken, you chose to throw a tantrum and take the attitude that no one else could be right about it because you had decided that you were.


As to my being on the 'Science and Tech' subforum... I've been here quite a longer time than you. I'm not usually so impatient about a topic, but this one in particular has really gotten under my skin. For the reasons stated above. I want to apologize to you personally, for my tone about it, but I hope you will understand my frustration. I want to apologize to everyone in general about it for the same reasons. I'm not going to discuss this particular topic on this thread any longer. I'm exhausted. :(
As I pointed out above, having been here longer doesn't mean you're right. I'd suggest, if you're so sure of your view on the matter, that you construct a FAQ about the matter and see if it stands up to scrutiny. I'd be happy to help with it if you want. I've hopefully at least shown that I'm good at playing devil's advocate if nothing else. It would eliminate the need for you to get into conversations like this as you could just refer to it (referring to a huge thread isn't really helpful as they're not organized in a fashion that makes it easy to actually extract information from them. And maybe since you have been here so long, you've forgotten what it's like coming into a forum early on. No one has the time to read the whole forum before posting. If everyone tried to, Gateworld forums would disappear because it would never gain new members.)

That being said, your apology is accepted. And I apologize as well as it wasn't really my intention to drive you off, only to counteract. Since I think we've scared everyone else off from the thread now since no one else has touched it, I'm guessing this is probably where this will end. But I can't say this is the last time I'll touch the topic. And I'm sure we'll likely cross paths again. I know I won't avoid it and I hope you won't either. I love being proven wrong even more than proving that I'm right because it means I've learned something new. But, I still think I'm right ;)

Heaven
September 19th, 2006, 10:11 AM
glad to see everyone has calmed down :)
finally the rest of us can rejoin this discussion



Duh. To answer your one question, it is because it is the only technology in the star system that would be affected by an incoming wormhole. Wormholes are created by electrical energy being converted into gravimetric energy, and then sent through subspace to the coordinates given. The Naquada (of which stargates are largely made) has the property of being able to absorb gravitimetric energy and convert it to electrical energy. Thus the targeted gate is powered by outgoing gate. magic!


please explain your statement. gravity is not energy, there is no such thing as "gravimetric energy".

Seastallion
September 19th, 2006, 10:14 AM
As I said before, I'm not going to respond to this particular topic we've been discussing again. Right now, I'm burnt out on it. Proving anything is difficult enough, proving something that is fictional to begin with is virtually impossible. Especially if the other person is committed to their ideas. I'm not saying that I'm not, but I have good reason to be. I'm not the type of person that won't change their mind, but it takes real solid evidence to convince me otherwise.

I'm not hiding from new ideas. I've already faced those same ideas on many occaisons already. You haven't produced anything new. I could respond to your two previous post, but I won't. You've spoken of my unwillingness to accept new ideas, but you've conviently ignored the same flaw in yourself. Case in point- The Intergalacitc Bridge.


This also goes against the possibility of the intergalactic bridge working in Atlantis as the gates are obviously going to be in the same solar system as if they had to travel through a solar system on a puddle jumper, a great deal of time would be lost moving between them. It wouldn't be the '30 minute' trip.

What you said about it made absolutely no sense and you refuse to even check into it. Science, real or imagined, has nothing to do with your refusal to do so. The 30 plus stargates would NOT be in the same star system. They would be strung out between both galaxies. A Puddlejumper would go from one gate to the next all the way across. The italicized portion shows precisely that you don't know what your talking about. The stargates won't be in ANY star system at all. They will all be placed in the void between the Milky Way and Pegasus galaxies. Each stargate would pass on the jumper from one to the other, like a bucket-brigade, until it reached the other side. Even IF they had to stop at each gate, all they'd have to do is simply turn around and redial the gate they just came out of and keep going. No great amount of flying around.

Like I said though, I'm tired. If you don't want to be convinced, you won't be. At the moment I'm not interested in trying. Maybe, just maybe the little effort I made on behalf of the Intergalactic Bridge might've worked. Maybe. It'd be nice. Maybe then you would go back and check out that thread. I even have nice pictures to illustrate my points. :)

FallenAngelII
September 19th, 2006, 10:17 AM
Except that when you are dealing with a variable as large as stellar distances, such differences are inconsequential. If a stargate will work within a lightyear of said targeted area, star system sizes won't make much difference.

I was questioning your claim that Stargate addresses target solar systems. I don't think it's ever been stated and, besides, how big is a solar system, anyway?


The Puddle Jumpers do NOT have hyperdrive. The only reason 302's have hyperdrive is because they are naquadria-based, and so the drive can be built much smaller. However since naquadria is super-unstable the drive is only used in emergencies, and even then, only over short distances.

The ancients had no need for the jumpers to have hyperdrive. If they couldn't get somewhere through a stargate, they had full-sized ships they could use.
I always though we discontinued using Nahquadriah after it was determined it was way too unstable.

TheBigFlush
September 19th, 2006, 10:23 AM
I always though we discontinued using Nahquadriah after it was determined it was way too unstable.

Yeah, I don't know if the production 302s even have a hyperdrive, or just the prototypes; I was only pointing out the reason that the 302 even had a hyperdrive is because the naquadria allowed them to build it smaller.

Seastallion
September 19th, 2006, 10:23 AM
glad to see everyone has calmed down :)
finally the rest of us can rejoin this discussion

please explain your statement. gravity is not energy, there is no such thing as "gravimetric energy".

Gravity can be measured, just like Electricity can. The mass of an object determines its gravity. That mass is a static form of energy. Gravity is a form of energy just as Electromagnetism is. The term 'gravimetric' is used in identifying a measure of gravity strength. In the most advanced theoretical physics, EM energy can be used to produce gravitational fields. It is very difficult, but it is under research even now. Dr. Ning Yi is one of the foremost researchers on this topic. She even has a superconductive ring shaped disc that is designed to produce a gravity-like field. It looks sort of like a big black magnet. (I can see O'Neill smiling) It is in fact a superconductive ceramic lattice.

Cycrow
September 19th, 2006, 11:08 AM
As far as the pan-galactic stargate highway goes... again, if you watch the last episode of stargate sg-1 season 1, you would know that the stargate on the mothership would not work without being near a planet already in the stargate network, which is why they could not use it to escape mid-journey. The orbital gates as frequently seen in Atlantis also follows this principle as these gates are very close to their respective planets. With no such planets or points recognized by the stargate network... how could the establish a lock on a gate?

well, part of the reason would be that its unlikly that stargates would work in hyperspace but also that the coordiantes they are using pointed to that planet, so moving the stargate away from the planet made the coordinates no longer valid, you'll have to use different cooridnates to get that stargate.

and the reason that stargates are usually found on planets, is bacause what use would they be if they wern't on planets, the acients made the stargates for traveling between planets, so they were put on or near plnets, but it doesn't mean thats how it has to be.

All they have to do is compute the coordiantes to point to the area of space that the gates in the bridge are on so they can dial it, afterall, the stargates dont really know if a planet is close or not

Myth
September 19th, 2006, 11:41 AM
As I said before, I'm not going to respond to this particular topic we've been discussing again. Right now, I'm burnt out on it. Proving anything is difficult enough, proving something that is fictional to begin with is virtually impossible. Especially if the other person is committed to their ideas. I'm not saying that I'm not, but I have good reason to be. I'm not the type of person that won't change their mind, but it takes real solid evidence to convince me otherwise.

I'm not hiding from new ideas. I've already faced those same ideas on many occaisons already. You haven't produced anything new. I could respond to your two previous post, but I won't. You've spoken of my unwillingness to accept new ideas, but you've conviently ignored the same flaw in yourself.


As I said before, I give what I get. I was reacting to the way your messages were toned in a similar fashion. I've found that things advance more quickly that way. The other person usually either ends up coming around to reason or running off in a huff, so it serves it's purpose well.

I have no problem with being convinced. But you're not convincing. You're saying "I'm right, you're wrong". Well, I can do that too. And you simply ignore the evidence that doesn't agree with you. See, you're thinking that I'm trying to prove that my answer is right. But I'm not. I'm trying to prove what is the right answer. I'm afraid you saying so alone just isn't enough for me. Especially when there's evidence otherwise that isn't addressed.

Unfortunately, I'm going to have to leave things at that as I've got other things to attend to and leave for a business trip tonight. But I'm not done with the topic and will return to it.

Heaven
September 19th, 2006, 11:47 AM
Gravity can be measured, just like Electricity can. The mass of an object determines its gravity. That mass is a static form of energy. Gravity is a form of energy just as Electromagnetism is. The term 'gravimetric' is used in identifying a measure of gravity strength. In the most advanced theoretical physics, EM energy can be used to produce gravitational fields. It is very difficult, but it is under research even now. Dr. Ning Yi is one of the foremost researchers on this topic. She even has a superconductive ring shaped disc that is designed to produce a gravity-like field. It looks sort of like a big black magnet. (I can see O'Neill smiling) It is in fact a superconductive ceramic lattice.
you have to distinguish between energy and force here
the "gravity strength" you are refering to is a measure of force
whereas energy is a measure of work
the term "gravimetric energy" is invalid

Seastallion
September 19th, 2006, 12:03 PM
you have to distinguish between energy and force here
the "gravity strength" you are refering to is a measure of force
whereas energy is a measure of work
the term "gravimetric energy" is invalid

Check out http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gravitational_energy

;)

The word 'gravimetric' may be fuzzy, but the overall idea is valid. :)

Heaven
September 19th, 2006, 12:10 PM
The word 'gravimetric' may be fuzzy, but the overall idea is valid. :)
agreed. just don't mix gravitational energy with gravitational force next time

Heaven
September 19th, 2006, 12:14 PM
but I still don't quite understand your theory of how the gate works. care to explain?

NoDot
September 19th, 2006, 02:38 PM
I just checked the transcript for 2x14 - Touchstone (http://www.moon-catchin.net/gatenoise/sg1transcripts/s2/214touchstone.htm), and I'm still not convinced that you can easily dial different gates in the same solar system, at least not with the ease you're thinking. The talk of "modulating the power" certainly tells me that the level of percision that you're looking for is near or absolutely impossible.

Also, just to quell this RIGHT NOW, the Stargate cannot be dialed out while you are in hyperspace. The gate does not need to be near a planet to function!

As to needing to avoid going through a sun, wouldn't the massive warping the wormhole would experience from the gravity be a problem?

(And I still don't like the idea of a correlative upgate very much.)

Col. Shadow Quinn
September 19th, 2006, 08:28 PM
Here's another inconsistincy: We can fix and interface Anciet technology, yet we can't even make a viable energy weapon. I wonder why.

Tassadar
September 20th, 2006, 12:14 AM
Here's another inconsistincy: We can fix and interface Anciet technology, yet we can't even make a viable energy weapon. I wonder why.
it would make us too strong in the eyes of tptb. thats why.

Seastallion
September 22nd, 2006, 09:36 PM
but I still don't quite understand your theory of how the gate works. care to explain?

If your asking me, I am currently planning a seperate thread specifically about how the stargate could work, with the specific details we have to work with forced on us by the many creators of Stargate. I know how it is SUPPOSED to work, but actually plugging in the numbers we've been given and applying them to real world statistics such as actual galactic diameter and circumfrence divided by the number cominations we have to work with is very difficult. It took me some time to figure out exactly how it might work, but I eventually found a way for it to work given a 6-figure address composed of 38 possible symbols. At first I couldn't get it to work for anything less than a square area of more than 100 light-years. Then after some more work, I was able to get it down to about 57 light-years. After much more banging of my head and numerous calculations, I was then able to pull it down to about 13.7 light-years. Finally, after more hair-pulling and calculating I was able to get the targeting method to be able to lock onto an area of about 3.2 x 0.7 square light-years. I was quite proud of myself. It was a lot of work. However, it has one flaw. It doesn't allow the stargate to aim vertically. It's all horizontal and distance targeting combined. On the other hand the odds of two star systems both having a stargate being in the same 'tube' which would roughly be '3.2 LY's x 0.7 LY's x 10,000 LY's' (the galactic altitude). (LY= Light-Year) Essentially, I was able to do this by dividing the galactic disc into 54,872 'pie slices' [38 x (38 x 38)], and 54,872 concentric rings around the galactic core starting at a radius of 10,000 LY's from the center of the galactic bulge, and ending at a radius of 50,000 LY's, stretching out to the galactic discs edges at a diameter of 100,000 LY's across. This doesn't take into account the galactic halo which may have habitable star systems also. However, If I'd taken that into account the targeting system would be much less accurate. Also the halo is far less densely populated than the galactic disc. As it is, the system above allows for more than 3 Billion possible stargate addresses. NOT bad at all. ;)

I'm currently working on a system that would be much more in keeping with the traditional system of X,Y,Z coordinates. However, it will require me doing significantly more calculations and trial & error procedures. It could take some time, and frankly its been giving me a headache. Let's just say that it will have something to do with the Stargate symbols and Roman numerals. Which is ideal seeing as 'Ancient' is similiar to Latin. At the moment I have to work a system out that will allow me to do vertical, horizontal, and distance targeting all at once, unlike the method for the best system using real numbers I could come up with so far. If I can get this 'new' system I'm working on to work out, then the system will follow as closely as described on the show as possible. My best system otherwise is workable given the numbers we have to work with, but I'd much rather that this new system I'm working on finally succeeds. It will make things make much more sense in terms of the shows description of the stargates operating targeting system. Although to be fair to myself, the show has always been quite vague about that.

I can at least say that both of my systems (the one I just created recently, and the one I'm working on) allow for space navigation as well as stargate targeting. The new system could potentially be far more accurate than the best one I've come up with so far. I'm still not certain how accurate it might be, but, if I can get it to work... it could be significantly more accurate. By that I mean it could potentially pinpoint targets at less than a light-year in every direction. Far better than my best current system.

GreyFox
September 22nd, 2006, 10:05 PM
another inconsistency thor's homeplanet Halla in Othalla while Oneill went to Othalla in Ida in fifth race

Seastallion
September 22nd, 2006, 10:22 PM
another inconsistency thor's homeplanet Halla in Othalla while Oneill went to Othalla in Ida in fifth race

Not necessarily. The 7th symbol in an 8 symbol address alters the stargates targeting system to allow it to work at larger scales. It isn't a normal 7 symbol address, so it doesn't work under the same rules precisely. However, if I can get my revised targeting system to work properly it would allow the stargate targeting system to work exactly as Carter suggested it might in 'The Fifth Race'. It would work under the same targeting system as the rest of the gate system, except that it would simply add a new distance variable into the calculation. Once I get the system worked out, I plan to make a new thread to explain it. Ideally, I'll have some nice pictures made up to help with the explanation. It might take a while though. I want to do it right, instead of just rushing into it. :)

2ndgenerationalteran
September 23rd, 2006, 12:24 AM
arent the clothes of most civilizations taken from animals? so wouldnt the leather or wool clothes have been destroyed in the dakara weapon blast in counterstrike?

Seastallion
September 23rd, 2006, 12:52 AM
arent the clothes of most civilizations taken from animals? so wouldnt the leather or wool clothes have been destroyed in the dakara weapon blast in counterstrike?

Perhaps it only effected living flesh. If that was the case, then it would make sense. ;)