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View Full Version : "The Tauri ship is very Powerful"what?[spoilers]



Milleniumlance
September 16th, 2006, 09:34 PM
"In the Company of Thieves" one Ketan's lieutenants praises the Daedalus class a very powerful ship...yet it seems to get its ass kicked in every encounter...

knowsfords
September 16th, 2006, 09:43 PM
Most of those encounters are against multiple ships tho.

2ndgenerationalteran
September 16th, 2006, 09:43 PM
i think they are refering to its shields and hyperdrive as well as the beaming technology, which is superior to the goulds old stuff.

Seastallion
September 16th, 2006, 09:59 PM
Most of those encounters are against multiple ships tho.


That is true. I'd really love to see how one Goa'uld Ha'tak mothership would do against two or three Daedalus class ships. I'm pretty sure that the Tau'ri ships would win, despite the fact the weapons aren't quite as good. The shield strength ought to make up for that, and put them on a more even playing ground in that area.

Daeadalus class: Weak weapons; Strong shields
Ha'tak class: Strong weapons (relatively); weaker shields (relatively)

Avenger
September 16th, 2006, 10:04 PM
The rail guns are weaker than the Hat'ak's energy weapons, but the Daedalus class also has missiles, which help even out the weapons.

cooky
September 16th, 2006, 10:46 PM
The rail guns also seam to pass right through shields with no effect. That ability is lessened by rail guns limited ability to inflict damage, but if we could target key pionts on the ship, say gun implacements or the Pel'Tak (bridge), even just using rail guns would quickly give us the upper hand against a lone Ha'tak.

As for missiles, the x-301 was equiped with a new missile design that was supposedly capable of penetrating Gua'uld shield technology. Though we haven't seen proof that the technology works, it is likelly that this technology is incorporated into the missiles on our warships, which would make 304's (or even 302's if we wanted) more than a match for a small fleet of Ha'tak's, if one ever bothered to actually fight, instead of run. The real problem is the commander's are to afraid to scratch the paint on their fancy new toys.

Star Fox
September 16th, 2006, 10:58 PM
Intergalatic hyper drive, beaming technology, nukes, very powerful railguns, F-302 which are "suppose" to carry hyperdrives (not sure if they do anymore)


yea id say powerful, remember in atlantis the daedalus did heavy damage to another hive with railguns alone

LORD MONK
September 17th, 2006, 12:18 AM
I would just love to finally win a battle.

Smashman
September 17th, 2006, 12:54 AM
theoretically a 304 would smash a Ha'tak one on one, wouldn't it?

Buba uognarf
September 17th, 2006, 01:19 AM
Intergalatic hyper drive, beaming technology, nukes, very powerful railguns, F-302 which are "suppose" to carry hyperdrives (not sure if they do anymore)


yea id say powerful, remember in atlantis the daedalus did heavy damage to another hive with railguns alone

The hive already damaged by a nuke and the rail gun fire caused secondary explosions by hitting internal systems in the dart bay, one on one unless the deadalus can get several nuke impacts on a hive the hive is going to batter it every time rail guns seem to be ineffective against them unless hitting a weakspot, as for ha'taks i think one on one a deadalus would win hands down...

keyboard_warrior
September 17th, 2006, 08:15 AM
well the combined mw fleet versus ori battle at the end of season 9 the hatak vessels got pwned from one hit with the main guns, however the asgard and earth ships were able to take at one head on hit each.

jds1982
September 17th, 2006, 08:22 AM
The rail guns also seam to pass right through shields with no effect. That ability is lessened by rail guns limited ability to inflict damage, but if we could target key pionts on the ship, say gun implacements or the Pel'Tak (bridge), even just using rail guns would quickly give us the upper hand against a lone Ha'tak.

As for missiles, the x-301 was equiped with a new missile design that was supposedly capable of penetrating Gua'uld shield technology. Though we haven't seen proof that the technology works, it is likelly that this technology is incorporated into the missiles on our warships, which would make 304's (or even 302's if we wanted) more than a match for a small fleet of Ha'tak's, if one ever bothered to actually fight, instead of run. The real problem is the commander's are to afraid to scratch the paint on their fancy new toys.

Since when do railguns pass through shields, I have never seen that? Would've been one hell of an advantage during the Camelot battle.

Gelasius
September 17th, 2006, 08:49 AM
i'm curious why we don't have energy weapons, for ten years we've had gould tech for energy weapons, i'm sure we could've assimilated that knowledge into our ships already along with projectiles and missiles..


Gelasius

Andrew Joshua Talon
September 17th, 2006, 08:59 AM
Well, one, the only energy weapons (real life) that we've developed so far are laser-based systems. Systems which are best for use against fighters and missiles, but aren't powerful enough to do damage against capital ships.

Two, Felger's energy weapon is problematic at best. It's possible they've put it on the shelf or scrapped the project entirely and are working on something new, which, unfortunately, takes time.

And three, while the tech the Asgard have given us is very, very good, it's still underpowered, implying that we need better power generation systems before we think about mounting anything as power-intensive as directed-energy weapons on our ships.

Col. Shadow Quinn
September 17th, 2006, 09:07 AM
Easy, Goa'uld weapons knowledge isn't worth it when we can ask the asgard for help building our own energy weapons and reactor systems that way we can actually win the battles we're able to win.

Descended
September 17th, 2006, 09:10 AM
Its a little ridiculous to think that we haven't reverse engineered a goa'uld energy weapon by now... we can figure out the ancient tech in Atlantis well enough to repair puddlejumpers and city systems, but we can make a Hatak energy cannon!

The writers are simply trying to give us a vulnerability, since Asgard shielded ships with powerful weapons flying around would be pwning Hataks left and right.

Andrew Joshua Talon
September 17th, 2006, 09:18 AM
Easy, Goa'uld weapons knowledge isn't worth it when we can ask the asgard for help building our own energy weapons and reactor systems that way we can actually win the battles we're able to win.

Well, we do have to remember that we're going to be fighting in ways the Asgard won't, such as providing fire support to ground troops and engaging enemy fighters and small craft. I think that we should keep and continue to improve our current weapons systems, but also get access to lower-rated Asgard energy weapons and power generators. Just one of those weapons, in combination with missiles and rail guns, would give our ships considerable flexibility and firepower.

Here's how this arrangement might work in one engagement:

Against a single capital ship, continuous fire from an improved 304's main Asgard gun can be used to drive the ship. At the same time, we launch several stealthy or cloaked missiles into that flight path, detonating the warheads when the enemy ship reaches the predetermined point. All the while our rail guns do moderate damage to the enemy ship and keep their sensors occupied, and AWAY from our missiles.

cooky
September 17th, 2006, 09:22 AM
Since when do railguns pass through shields, I have never seen that? Would've been one hell of an advantage during the Camelot battle.

Oops, I meant Ha'tak shields, not shields in general. I get that from Off the Grid, it was not said for sure that the rail gun rounds were going right through the LA's Ha'tak shields, but it did look that way. Durring the battle scenes, you can clearly see the rail gun fire, but no shield impacts. And one of the Oddysey's officers did mention that they had done minor damage to the Ha'taks.

It isn't hard to believe, based on other episodes such as Upgrades, that a small enough round, moving at high speeds could slip through Gua'uld designed shields. Unfortunatelly, the smaller the round, the less damage it is going to do, even if it is unaffected by shields.

Andrew Joshua Talon
September 17th, 2006, 09:59 AM
Oops, I meant Ha'tak shields, not shields in general. I get that from Off the Grid, it was not said for sure that the rail gun rounds were going right through the LA's Ha'tak shields, but it did look that way. Durring the battle scenes, you can clearly see the rail gun fire, but no shield impacts. And one of the Oddysey's officers did mention that they had done minor damage to the Ha'taks.

It isn't hard to believe, based on other episodes such as Upgrades, that a small enough round, moving at high speeds could slip through Gua'uld designed shields. Unfortunatelly, the smaller the round, the less damage it is going to do, even if it is unaffected by shields.

Not unless you enhance the rounds with naquada.

Kyle
September 17th, 2006, 10:11 AM
I would agree with the fact that every time we see the Daedalus in action, it get's its ass kicked. Except in the siege part 3, against the one hive ship.
I know the Asguard don't like sharing offensive weaponry with anyone, but surely there must be some race that will help them build better ones.

PG15
September 17th, 2006, 10:42 AM
It was the only ship to survive in the Camelot battle in good form, and with Netan's ship junk-afied at the same battle, I guess he assumed that the Oddy survived on strength, and not pure dumb luck.

GreyFox
September 17th, 2006, 11:06 AM
the only thing powerful bout 304s are shields, hyperdrive and beaming tech. which are all asgard tech

Tassadar
September 17th, 2006, 01:57 PM
It was the only ship to survive in the Camelot battle in good form, and with Netan's ship junk-afied at the same battle, I guess he assumed that the Oddy survived on strength, and not pure dumb luck.
Ya i think you are right. Netan thinks our ship survived because it was powerful. he saw that our ships took multiple hits from the Ori main gun. also he has very little intel on the offensive power of our ships so he probably judged the 304 strength from that one encounter. he also saw how we took on Baal and took back the gates in Off the Grid. So if I was him I would be a bit worried about our ships too. ofcourse in reality he could probably destroy earth even with his small fleet of ships, but luckily he doesn't know that.

now about the fact that we have yet to obtain energy weapons...um ya there really is no logical explanation for this. if you put carter in a room and gave her whatever she needed, she could probably build a pretty descent energy weapon in like a month. i think the main reason we havent gotten weapons is to give a more dramatic feeling to the situation. if we had energy weapons on the Oddy it would quickly become much more powerful than Hataks. which i think the writers didnt want. they want earth to get beat up pretty badly. and then as we fight the ori they will start giving us more tech and by the end of the fight im pretty sure we will have the most advanced ships in the galaxy. i think they wanted to make the battle with the ori kind of like earth's initiation into a power in the galaxy. ofcourse now that the show is canceled this probably wont happen but i felt that thats the path the writers would have liked to take.

Jimbo-DR
September 17th, 2006, 03:10 PM
The lucian alliance couldn't destroy Earth for one simple reason: The Antartic Outpost. While many on here argue that a Wraith fleet or Ori fleet would own us even with the Outpost(which I heavily disagree with), there can be no doubt that against a fleet of Ha'taks they would have no chance. Just look at Lost City for proof of that.

As far as Netan thinking Oddysey is powerful... he's damn right!
Our ships has shields that are so far beyond Goa'uld shielding they probably wonder how the hell we did it, hyperdrives to put them to shame, and beaming technology that makes the rings obsolete. The only weakness we have is our weapon systems.

Everyone is saying "but daedalus and oddysey always seem to get owned in fights". Thats because we CONSTANTLY go up against bad odds and fight it out more than one at a time. We seem to have inherited the Asgard mentality of "take on 50 ships at once". The problem is we don't have the Asgard firepower to back it up. I don't think we've EVER seen Daedalus OR Oddysey truly go one on one with any other ship. The closest I can think of was Daedalus protecting the "friendly" hive about halfway through "Allies". And that only lasted a couple seconds before we left.

I think its safe to say that one Ha'tak wouldn't have a prayer of defeating the shields on Oddysey before it was ripped to shreds even by our weak weapons. Again, look at Lost City. Prometheus, which has weaker shields than the 304's by the looks of the storyline, takes about 10 minutes worth of getting totally pounded by Anubis's flagship and several Alkesh, Gliders, and everything else. And Anubis supposedly had "Ancient" knowledge with which to advance his ships. Against one regular old Ha'tak they couldn't really do a whole lot to us. Also, we CAN beam through regular Ha'tak shields, as proven by this last episode. So yea, I'd say Oddysey is still a pretty powerful ship, even if it doesn't have the best weapon systems available.

Tain
September 17th, 2006, 03:36 PM
Geez, you guys expect way too much from a civilization that hasn't even been spacefaring for 10 years yet in that universe. There would be something horribly wrong if the Tauri were running around dishing out ownage. Everyone else has been in the starship business for millenia, expecting the Tauri to top that overnight is bordering on the insane. The Daedalus SHOULD get its butt kicked every time it goes up against these enemy ships, its basically a rowboat with titanium armor and an outboard motor going up against a proper navy. Theres no way in hell it should be doing anything other than trying to stay the heck away from things.

Mister Oragahn
September 17th, 2006, 07:26 PM
"In the Company of Thieves" one Ketan's lieutenants praises the Daedalus class a very powerful ship...yet it seems to get its ass kicked in every encounter...

It is a very powerful ship. It just lacks a rather generic and yet efficient anti capship weapon. It has nukes, but they're rather slow.
This is why the 304 are good as carriers, and carry all they need to defend themselves and protect their fighters, but they're hardly the best ships when it comes to pure capital ship engagements, like frigates, real battlecruisers, gunboats, dreadnoughts, etc.

Check out a few threads here and there about new starship designs and else.

Ouroboros
September 17th, 2006, 09:06 PM
It's powerful compared to Ha'taks, which is what the Lucian's are familiar with, so what they'd be likely to compare it to. 304s only look sort of crap on the show because we're used to seeing them fighting Wraith hives or Ori ships, both of which are way more powerful than Ha'taks.

Against a Ha'tak I'd pick a 304 to win anyday.

rarocks24
September 17th, 2006, 09:10 PM
The Daedalus would make an awesome hit and run vessel, as far as Pegasus goes. If the Wraith can't detect it, they can sneak right on up to some hive ship and fire off all it's nukes and destroy it before the Wraith realized what hit them

Tassadar
September 17th, 2006, 11:31 PM
Geez, you guys expect way too much from a civilization that hasn't even been spacefaring for 10 years yet in that universe. There would be something horribly wrong if the Tauri were running around dishing out ownage. Everyone else has been in the starship business for millenia, expecting the Tauri to top that overnight is bordering on the insane. The Daedalus SHOULD get its butt kicked every time it goes up against these enemy ships, its basically a rowboat with titanium armor and an outboard motor going up against a proper navy. Theres no way in hell it should be doing anything other than trying to stay the heck away from things.
very true. we are still pretty young compared to the rest of the space faring races. we do have asgard tech easing the gap between us and the rest, but we still lack the infrastructure to build ships that other races that have been in space for hundreds of years have.

Andrew Joshua Talon
September 17th, 2006, 11:37 PM
The lucian alliance couldn't destroy Earth for one simple reason: The Antartic Outpost. While many on here argue that a Wraith fleet or Ori fleet would own us even with the Outpost(which I heavily disagree with), there can be no doubt that against a fleet of Ha'taks they would have no chance. Just look at Lost City for proof of that.

As far as Netan thinking Oddysey is powerful... he's damn right!
Our ships has shields that are so far beyond Goa'uld shielding they probably wonder how the hell we did it, hyperdrives to put them to shame, and beaming technology that makes the rings obsolete. The only weakness we have is our weapon systems.

Everyone is saying "but daedalus and oddysey always seem to get owned in fights". Thats because we CONSTANTLY go up against bad odds and fight it out more than one at a time. We seem to have inherited the Asgard mentality of "take on 50 ships at once". The problem is we don't have the Asgard firepower to back it up. I don't think we've EVER seen Daedalus OR Oddysey truly go one on one with any other ship. The closest I can think of was Daedalus protecting the "friendly" hive about halfway through "Allies". And that only lasted a couple seconds before we left.

I think its safe to say that one Ha'tak wouldn't have a prayer of defeating the shields on Oddysey before it was ripped to shreds even by our weak weapons. Again, look at Lost City. Prometheus, which has weaker shields than the 304's by the looks of the storyline, takes about 10 minutes worth of getting totally pounded by Anubis's flagship and several Alkesh, Gliders, and everything else. And Anubis supposedly had "Ancient" knowledge with which to advance his ships. Against one regular old Ha'tak they couldn't really do a whole lot to us. Also, we CAN beam through regular Ha'tak shields, as proven by this last episode. So yea, I'd say Oddysey is still a pretty powerful ship, even if it doesn't have the best weapon systems available.

Amen to that. In truth, we probably just need to make our missiles faster (or maybe cloak them) and we'd be doing a whole lot better in combat against the Wraith at least. The Ori are more iffy, but if we can find Merlin's weapon and disable the Ori's power, then their ships are toast because the Priors activated them with their powers. And without the Prior's power, the ships just shut down, as seen in "Counterstrike".

knowsfords
September 18th, 2006, 12:01 AM
The revelation of new earth built disruptor weapons designed to combat the replicators/asurans is problematic because if you can adjust the frequency map of the Dakara weapon, then surely you can adjust the map of the disruptors to destroy organic beings.

morrismike
September 18th, 2006, 03:02 AM
Guys
Every single battle you've seen a 304 in has been purely defensive with the exception of a few battles when it has been seriously outclassed or outnumbered. Caldwells tactic of launching missiles when exiting a hyperspace window and would be effective against as many as a dozen ships IF a cloud of darts isn't already deployed to destroy shepards 302. Additionally, our captains haven't quite got the hang of space warfare yet. If they were to engage at a higher closing speeds the kinetic energy of those railgun pellets would increase significantly. I seriously doubt any hatak or even hive captain is too anxious to engage a 304 one on one. The most important asset on a 304 is the captain and we haven't got the right guy yet.

I think the best thing to do is send our captains to an asgard space warfare seminer/training and some graduate level physics courses to be more effective. It wouldn't hurt to have them watch some star trek footage of Kirk (enterprise) or Cisco (defiant) to be more effective. Most of our captains seem to be wimps like Picard. Just because you have sheilds capable of withstanding ANY enemies enemy salvo doesn't mean you have to stand and take it.

Gen. O'Neill
September 18th, 2006, 06:13 AM
just to let you know you spelled cisco wrong, is Sisko. :jack:

Seastallion
September 18th, 2006, 06:19 AM
jsut to let you you spelled cisco wrong, is Sisko. :jack:

Just to let you know, you spelled 'jsut' wrong. It is 'just'. ;) :p You also forgot to add the word 'know' and a period, before beginning a new sentence. :D Or at least a comma to continue the same sentence. :p

Just messing with ya..! ;)

zpm!!
September 18th, 2006, 06:23 AM
not everyone knows the damn dictionary or every character name!!!!!! LIKE U!

Seastallion
September 18th, 2006, 06:27 AM
not everyone knows the damn dictionary or every character name!!!!!! LIKE U!

Wow, dude..! Calm down. :eek:

By-the-by... who are you talking to anyways? Me or Gen. O'Neill?

Seastallion
September 18th, 2006, 06:37 AM
Oops..! Accidental double-post... I don't know why that happened.

Gen. O'Neill
September 18th, 2006, 06:52 AM
Just to let you know, you spelled 'jsut' wrong. It is 'just'. ;) :p You also forgot to add the word 'know' and a period, before beginning a new sentence. :D Or at least a comma to continue the same sentence. :p

Just messing with ya..! ;)
sorry thats my bad i think fasts but i type a little slow, so i would miss a word to two :D. :jack:

Wraith_Hunter
September 18th, 2006, 09:58 AM
The lucian alliance couldn't destroy Earth for one simple reason: The Antartic Outpost. While many on here argue that a Wraith fleet or Ori fleet would own us even with the Outpost(which I heavily disagree with), there can be no doubt that against a fleet of Ha'taks they would have no chance. Just look at Lost City for proof of that.

As far as Netan thinking Oddysey is powerful... he's damn right!
Our ships has shields that are so far beyond Goa'uld shielding they probably wonder how the hell we did it, hyperdrives to put them to shame, and beaming technology that makes the rings obsolete. The only weakness we have is our weapon systems.

Everyone is saying "but daedalus and oddysey always seem to get owned in fights". Thats because we CONSTANTLY go up against bad odds and fight it out more than one at a time. We seem to have inherited the Asgard mentality of "take on 50 ships at once". The problem is we don't have the Asgard firepower to back it up. I don't think we've EVER seen Daedalus OR Oddysey truly go one on one with any other ship. The closest I can think of was Daedalus protecting the "friendly" hive about halfway through "Allies". And that only lasted a couple seconds before we left.

I think its safe to say that one Ha'tak wouldn't have a prayer of defeating the shields on Oddysey before it was ripped to shreds even by our weak weapons. Again, look at Lost City. Prometheus, which has weaker shields than the 304's by the looks of the storyline, takes about 10 minutes worth of getting totally pounded by Anubis's flagship and several Alkesh, Gliders, and everything else. And Anubis supposedly had "Ancient" knowledge with which to advance his ships. Against one regular old Ha'tak they couldn't really do a whole lot to us. Also, we CAN beam through regular Ha'tak shields, as proven by this last episode. So yea, I'd say Oddysey is still a pretty powerful ship, even if it doesn't have the best weapon systems available.

1. The problem here is that they don't have a ZPM to power it. A MKII can only power a few dozen before going down. Therefore while it may be enough against a few Ha'taks. There is no way in hell it's enough to take on Hives, never mind Ori ships.

Look how many Orion had to fire to take out a Hive.

Even if for arguments sake they did have a ZPM fully powered. What's to stop them from bombarding the outpost from orbit. It doesn't have shields that we're aware of, so like Da'kara. It would be very vulnerable to attack!

2. Shields are better than Ha'taks. However they have better weapons, therefore the advnatgae still stays with Ha'taks. 304's can take more punishment, however their weapons can't do squat. So let me put it this way: A 304 is taking & giving fire to a rival Ha'tak. The rail guns & warheads can't penetrate the shields & only cause minimal damage. While their energy weapons begin draining the 304's shields a lot quicker than they can that of the Ha'tak. Which ship will be destoryed first?

Beaming tech is good, however can't penetrate shields. We've seen this numerous times even Asgard can't beam in & out through Goa'uld shields. So in a fight against a shielded opponent, they are practically useless!

I don't understand when you say they haven't truly went for it against an enemy. Odyssey went against the Ha'taks in 'Off the Grid', it fired all it's weapons & didn't do crap, the same as in 'Camelot'. As for Daedalus, it went for it in 'The Siege III' a couple of times, 'The Hive' was also another one, as was 'Allies'. Face it, weapons are the most important part of the ship, the Earth ones suck, so overall the ship sucks in general. Simply because while the shields are good, they can't really take much impacts befgore they start to deplete rather quickly. Much better than Goa'uld but much less than Ancient, Ori or Asgard ships.

This is the main thing that gets me about thw writers on Stargate, this is why I feel the show has never lived up to it's true potential. It could have done so much better with viewing figures etc through the seaons if they had been more consistent. 1.5 to 2.0 isn't anywhere near good enough for what Stargate could have achieved if they had brought on a proper team of writers.

Such as this, Thor said that they were going to install Asgard designed weapons on Prometheus. Ronson even made mention of charging it up at one point, then nothing, they simply chose to blindly ignore it. Then comes the bit about Asgard suddenly not wanting to give away weapons in case it could be used against them. Being that the SGC single handely saved then from the Reps then that's a load of #balls#. They could have made them a dumbed down version of their weapons systems. It wouldn't be able to scratch their shields but might do something against Ha'tak or Wraith.

Then the fact that McKay & all the others can miraculously repair PJ's, 'Aurora' class warships & all the uber advanced ancient tech. Yet they cannot stript down a Cargo ship, Al'kesh, Ha'tak of it's weapons & place them on a 304. Mckay can even screw around with Wraith tech & get that up & running. Yet they cannot stript down say the ship from 'The Defiant One' & take it's weapons or some other damaged Wraith ship they've come across on their travels whilst in Pegasus.

Then comes this one which is bigger than all the rest. In 'It's good to be king', O'neill uses a PJ to take out a Ha'tak with only 2 Drones. We've seen Odyssey charge in blindly against Ha'taks & get it's ass kicked every single time. Being that Atlantis had a dozen or so then more from 'The Tower', then wouldn't it be prudent to station 1 or 2 on board Odysssey. This way if they ever get into trouble, they simply open the bay doors, erect the forcefield around it & fire Drones safely at the Ha'taks from inside the protected ship. Bang....Ha'taks get destroyed in the blink of an eye. The best about it, they alrteady have the weapons, so requires them to do absolutely nothing, other than bring them back on Daedalus from Pegasus.

It's stuff like this that irks me no end & that's only to do with weapons, there is far more other aspects that I could equally go on about. It's being we hear they are all the smartest people that Earth has to offer, then if we dummies on the forums can think of it, why can't these uber smart techies on the show.

It's all totally un-realistic, the writers introduce stuff, then simply completely ignore it soon after. Joe Mallozzi said on here than PJ's don't have shields, then a few months later re-posted in his old thread that it turned out that they did have shields all along. It seems they write stuff, then make the rest up as they go along, backtracking & ignoring previous eps whenever they please.

It's no wonder this show is going off the air, with crummy writers like this I seriously don't think any show will have had a chance!

Wraith_Hunter
September 18th, 2006, 10:00 AM
Oops..! Accidental double-post... I don't know why that happened.

I think it may have been because you pressed the submit button twice! :cameron:

Anyhow, simply click on 'edit' then look for the bit that allows you to delete the post if you wish.

Casanova
September 18th, 2006, 06:51 PM
1. The problem here is that they don't have a ZPM to power it. A MKII can only power a few dozen before going down. Therefore while it may be enough against a few Ha'taks. There is no way in hell it's enough to take on Hives, never mind Ori ships.

The Antarctic outpost does serve as a good deterrent. The Ori, Lucian Alliance and the Wraith don't have to know that it doesn't work. The LA and Ori are probably aware of what destroyed Anubis' fleet, but are unlikely to know of the fact that its ZPM is flat. We need Energizer ZPMs.

Wraith_Hunter
September 19th, 2006, 06:07 AM
The Antarctic outpost does serve as a good deterrent. The Ori, Lucian Alliance and the Wraith don't have to know that it doesn't work. The LA and Ori are probably aware of what destroyed Anubis' fleet, but are unlikely to know of the fact that its ZPM is flat. We need Energizer ZPMs.

The Wraith don't know about it, nor frankly wopuld they care. If they boldly attack Atlantis, warships etc. Then a single outpost would not frighten them in the slightest.

Regarding the Ori, we also don't know if they even know about the weapon. Then comes the fact that would they care, look at Da'kara & what it was able to do in the past. Yet it didn't hurt Adria at all. Also they believe that the Ori are gods, so if they did attack. They would do so without fear, just as they left their homes to go to war in another galaxy to convert or destroy all non-believers. DJ, Orlin,Landry even tried to show a prior, but he wouldn't listen & still went for it.

Lastly the Lucian Alliance, I'm sure it does scare the crap out of them, but they have dozens of ships. So while they would not attack directly, they could easily send a cloaked scout ship to do scans of the are to pinpoint it's location etc, see how much power it's drawing & so on. Then if they jumped out of HS & fired immediately upon it in strategic formation. They could take it out before a single Drone was even fired. They might even try to capture the weapon by sending warriors inside the ship, land it & ring themselves down. Then if they can't get control of it, they could blow it up from the inside.

Mister Oragahn
September 19th, 2006, 07:37 AM
I have to side with Wraith Hunter here.
I'm tired suspending my disbelief to such heights that I could consider my head already floating in geosynchronous orbit kilometers above my body.

Ouroboros
September 19th, 2006, 05:10 PM
The antarctic outpost is also only protected by some ice as far as I can tell. What's to stop a fleet of hives or toilets from just blowing the living hell out of it as they emerge from hyperspace, especially if they already know it's there.

Jimbo-DR
September 19th, 2006, 05:16 PM
I don't think the Ori know about it, but i'm still wondering why they haven't been to Earth. Actually, pretty much NOBODY really knows about it, because when we destroyed Anubis that was the the whole point, nobody knew exactly how we did it. To everyone else its just "The Tauri have some super powerful secret weapon that you don't wanna mess with". This a great deterrent because nobody wants to risk dieing when they don't know what their up against.

Wraith_Hunter
September 19th, 2006, 05:37 PM
I don't think the Ori know about it, but i'm still wondering why they haven't been to Earth. Actually, pretty much NOBODY really knows about it, because when we destroyed Anubis that was the the whole point, nobody knew exactly how we did it. To everyone else its just "The Tauri have some super powerful secret weapon that you don't wanna mess with". This a great deterrent because nobody wants to risk dieing when they don't know what their up against.


The Goa'uld weren't buying it & sent a ship to test it out! However Ba'al got to it first, so that scare tactic would only apply to the Lucian Alliance. However as I said previously, what's to stop them from sending a single cloaked ship to at least do a check & if possible take it over themselves.

The Wraith wouldn't give a hoot, if they boldly attack Atlantis + warships filled with Drones etc, then a small outpost which most likely doesn't have many Drones left anyhow, wouldn't faze them in the slightest..Simply they've took on much bigger fish before & come away victorius.

The Ori are even more powrful again, they came through & a whole fleet of ships couldn't even scratch their shields. Da'kara couldn't destroy them either, so basically there is nothing stopping them from coming to Earth. Most likely, it's not through fright, it's simply because they choose not to. They have had numerous chances to kill SG-1 & Daniel in particular. Yet they keep on being allowed to slip away etc.

The simply don't come to Earth right away, because they have bigger fish to fry, much more powerful opponents like the Jaffa to take care of beforehand. I'm sure come the end of S10 & the accompanying mini-series to end it, they'll make their way to Earth with plenty of time to spare.

jburrows
September 19th, 2006, 06:28 PM
Well for starters railguns do decent damage. I believe that 6 main railguns and how many rounds they would fire per minute and total damage they would do and compare it with a hat'aks weapon output for 1 minute and it would pretty close to each other. I imagine they hat'aks weapons power are significantly more than all the main rail guns so for power reasons they use railguns.

Why do not win more space battles? Simply put we are being at least double teamed in battle. When double teamed our shields go down 2 times as fast and we split the railguns fire power between 2 ships which basicly shows 25% damage the railguns would do to a ship. Personaly adding some extra railguns would be a good idea.

Col. Shadow Quinn
September 19th, 2006, 07:08 PM
The fact we repair ancient, wraith, and other alien tech, but not make energy weapons for our ships is the biggest, if not stupidest thing ever! Honestly, we can fix an ancient warship with the right stuff. In the same way, we can't even build a viable energy weapon, Ancient technology is far more advanced than ours, yet we can't make better weapons. We should have the know how to do so. Hell, have the Asgard help us make a Tau'ri/Asgard hybrid energy weapon at least. The only reason we never win in a capital ship to capital ship fight is because: we're mostly on the defensive, we are outnumbered, our enemies attack by suprise, and most enemies have better weapons. We could also use a better power source that way we could actually last longer in a battle. Our ships do not suck, we are usually at some sort of disadvantage in battle.

Tassadar
September 19th, 2006, 08:01 PM
Well for starters railguns do decent damage. I believe that 6 main railguns and how many rounds they would fire per minute and total damage they would do and compare it with a hat'aks weapon output for 1 minute and it would pretty close to each other. I imagine they hat'aks weapons power are significantly more than all the main rail guns so for power reasons they use railguns.

Hm actually i dont think rail guns are very effective against capital ships. They don't seem to be able to penetrate shields and armor.

As for the outpost, ya i don't think it is much of a threat to the Ori or the Wraith. It may stop a first attack but if either enemy really wanted to they can easily overpower the outpost. However I do believe the outpost and the belief that our ships are way powerful is what keeps the LA at bay. They seem to have extremely poor intelligence on Earth.

Also I think the ancient outpost on earth is not totally defenseless and has a shield. pretty sure it is not on at the moment but i think thats simply because theres no power. if we had a zpm im pretty sure the shield will be fully functional and capable of withstanding an attack from a few ships. Who knows maybe we can even power it up with our generators.

Giantevilhead
September 19th, 2006, 08:27 PM
They've only been able to fix advanced tech that had minor damage and they haven't done a very good job at it. The Ancient defense satellite blew the circuit they repaired and got blown away by the Wraith. The Orion was barely space worthy and got blown away by the Wraith. Most of the advanced tech they built got owned horribly somewhere along the way.

GreyFox
September 19th, 2006, 08:27 PM
the wraith are never getting here anytime soon they're no problem. LA and Ori (well Ori for sure) are in fear of the antarctic drone platform (LA knows it ownd Anubis huge fleet Ori know it too from daniel's mind). plus they know there's no counter to the ultimate non WMD weapon (DRONES).

Tassadar
September 20th, 2006, 12:18 AM
the wraith are never getting here anytime soon they're no problem. LA and Ori (well Ori for sure) are in fear of the antarctic drone platform (LA knows it ownd Anubis huge fleet Ori know it too from daniel's mind). plus they know there's no counter to the ultimate non WMD weapon (DRONES).
I don't think the Ori are afraid of drones. if they were really worried they would have wiped the weapon out to start with. thats what they did with the dekara weapon. so either they don't seen the weapon as a threat or simply don't know about it. my guess is that they just don't seen it as a threat.

Ravroz
September 20th, 2006, 07:07 AM
I don't think the Ori are even aware of the weapons platform in Antartica on EArth. If so they might be more apt to destroy it. One thing on that note. Couldn't the SGC go back to Proclarush and get the left over drones from there for use either in the Earth outpost or even on Atlantis?

Buba uognarf
September 20th, 2006, 08:23 AM
i think the ori do know of the ancient outpost, the reason they haven't come is that the outpost is harmless to their fleet until it enters orbit it can't affect their campaign so why waste ships and resources attacking it...

when the rest of the ori fleet arrives they'll be able to mount an attack without worrying about losing a sugnificant portion of their fleet...

Tassadar
September 20th, 2006, 05:13 PM
I don't think the Ori are even aware of the weapons platform in Antartica on EArth. If so they might be more apt to destroy it. One thing on that note. Couldn't the SGC go back to Proclarush and get the left over drones from there for use either in the Earth outpost or even on Atlantis?
I think the entire place came down right before sg1 left. so everything left would have been destroyed. for now i think we have enough drones. we just cant power up the weapon system itself. also shields would be nice so we ships cant just blast the weapon from space



i think the ori do know of the ancient outpost, the reason they haven't come is that the outpost is harmless to their fleet until it enters orbit it can't affect their campaign so why waste ships and resources attacking it...

when the rest of the ori fleet arrives they'll be able to mount an attack without worrying about losing a sugnificant portion of their fleet...

i don't think they are worried about it at all. i'm sure the ships they have now can easily take out the platform considering we can barely power the weapons and maybe the shields.

GreyFox
September 20th, 2006, 07:59 PM
I don't think the Ori are afraid of drones. if they were really worried they would have wiped the weapon out to start with. thats what they did with the dekara weapon. so either they don't seen the weapon as a threat or simply don't know about it. my guess is that they just don't seen it as a threat.


the problem is the dakara weapon allowed them to get close since it didn't affect the hotness of adria (she's so hot she has a shield around her). the drones would most definately own them before they got in range.


tealc mentioned they are afraid of the antarctic drone platform in ep 2 in the first 5 minutes or so.

verbalkint
September 20th, 2006, 08:30 PM
The Wraith don't know about it, nor frankly wopuld they care. If they boldly attack Atlantis, warships etc. Then a single outpost would not frighten them in the slightest.

Regarding the Ori, we also don't know if they even know about the weapon. Then comes the fact that would they care, look at Da'kara & what it was able to do in the past. Yet it didn't hurt Adria at all. Also they believe that the Ori are gods, so if they did attack. They would do so without fear, just as they left their homes to go to war in another galaxy to convert or destroy all non-believers. DJ, Orlin,Landry even tried to show a prior, but he wouldn't listen & still went for it.

Lastly the Lucian Alliance, I'm sure it does scare the crap out of them, but they have dozens of ships. So while they would not attack directly, they could easily send a cloaked scout ship to do scans of the are to pinpoint it's location etc, see how much power it's drawing & so on. Then if they jumped out of HS & fired immediately upon it in strategic formation. They could take it out before a single Drone was even fired. They might even try to capture the weapon by sending warriors inside the ship, land it & ring themselves down. Then if they can't get control of it, they could blow it up from the inside.
Don't forget that the outpost is under at least a mile of ice. That is a natural defense shield. I thought the whole point of going to obredian (sp?), the space race episode planet, was to learn from their technology. There were spaceships competing in the race that had energy weapons and the ships weren't huge so I wonder what ever happened to their technological contribution. Just another convenient plothole the writers wish for us to forget I suppose.

kefke20
September 20th, 2006, 10:10 PM
The ship of the Tauri are very Powerful
and tha cane bowup a fleet of ha`ta
whit tha beam tech.

if the asgart it alous

Tassadar
September 20th, 2006, 10:18 PM
Don't forget that the outpost is under at least a mile of ice. That is a natural defense shield. I thought the whole point of going to obredian (sp?), the space race episode planet, was to learn from their technology. There were spaceships competing in the race that had energy weapons and the ships weren't huge so I wonder what ever happened to their technological contribution. Just another convenient plothole the writers wish for us to forget I suppose.
ya pretty much. the writers aren’t too consistent when it comes to tech. they give us hyperdrives that can cross galaxies with no prior indication and forget about the tech they have built up in previous episodes....go figure...
As for ice as D....ya....ice...:S



the problem is the dakara weapon allowed them to get close since it didn't affect the hotness of adria (she's so hot she has a shield around her). the drones would most definately own them before they got in range.


tealc mentioned they are afraid of the antarctic drone platform in ep 2 in the first 5 minutes or so.

Adria's hotness is very difficult to defeat indeed. those ori really know how to engineer their prophets. ;)
As for Tealc assumed thats why. the team has been wrong before. it just doesn't make sense for the ori to be afraid of one single weapon thats isnt even at full power. why would they wait for us to find a zpm?

Raj_2006
September 21st, 2006, 01:50 AM
maybe they don't no where Earth is. :D

FallenAngelII
September 21st, 2006, 02:00 AM
Hey, powerful toilet ship beams that destroys mountains (on its lower settings) and cut through shields and Nahquadah (Ha'taks and Earth vessels) here.

You really think a few mile of ice is gonna hold for long?

thomashortoncc
September 21st, 2006, 06:21 AM
first off I dont know if this has been said, like the Wraith the Ori want ppl to "feed on". Earth is, as far as we know the most populated planet in the known galaxy, of humans that is. why wouldnt they go straight to Earth? they might not know about it - if you havent been to a galaxy in millions of years things might have changed drastically, the Ori have shown that they dont know what is going on in this galaxy with out direct intelligence. also they didnt know about Da'kara, why would they know about a tiny little outpost?

Ravroz
September 21st, 2006, 06:52 AM
While that is a very good point. I guess the ancients are blocking the Ori from acting directly in the galaxy. But, they sure aren't doing crap about their followers. One quick thing. Why doesn't the Deddy simply beam it's nukes right next to the hiveship. This would be much more effective than missile spamming the target. It could take only 3 maybe 4 nukes to take out a hive ship. Maybe even less.

Buba uognarf
September 21st, 2006, 07:19 AM
While that is a very good point. I guess the ancients are blocking the Ori from acting directly in the galaxy. But, they sure aren't doing crap about their followers. One quick thing. Why doesn't the Deddy simply beam it's nukes right next to the hiveship. This would be much more effective than missile spamming the target. It could take only 3 maybe 4 nukes to take out a hive ship. Maybe even less.

the jamming field probably extends outside the ship, otherwise it's useless...


Hey, powerful toilet ship beams that destroys mountains (on its lower settings) and cut through shields and Nahquadah (Ha'taks and Earth vessels) here.

what makes you think it was on it's lowest setting??? Adria was trying to destroy the weapon which as she put it was the only threat to her armies she probably gave it everthing she had...

Tassadar
September 21st, 2006, 02:53 PM
the jamming field probably extends outside the ship, otherwise it's useless...



what makes you think it was on it's lowest setting??? Adria was trying to destroy the weapon which as she put it was the only threat to her armies she probably gave it everthing she had...
hmm ya i agree the weapon was probably at full power. so either the weapon isnt that strong at all against solid matter, or the writers wanted to make it look cooler by having multiple shots.



maybe they don't no where Earth is.

hm i'm pretty sure they do. they even sent a prior that one time. also didn't they read daniel's mind or something like that?

Lightbane
September 21st, 2006, 08:13 PM
They are biding their time they are doing something but what?? its very puzelling why they aren't heading right to earth

dss202529
September 21st, 2006, 10:16 PM
Even if for arguments sake they did have a ZPM fully powered. What's to stop them from bombarding the outpost from orbit. It doesn't have shields that we're aware of, so like Da'kara. It would be very vulnerable to attack!

The outpost's are shielded, the one on Proclarush had a shield that prevented the outpost from being destroyed by Lava. The shield created the dome shaped rock over the outpost that they had to use the rings to punch through in Lost City Part Two.


They are biding their time they are doing something but what?? its very puzelling why they aren't heading right to earth

Maybe they just don't consider us that much of a threat, strategically speaking they are probably far more interested in taking out the Jaffa and the Lucian Alliance which are large multisystem alliances of worlds with fleets of spaceships.

Tassadar
September 21st, 2006, 10:33 PM
Maybe they just don't consider us that much of a threat, strategically speaking they are probably far more interested in taking out the Jaffa and the Lucian Alliance which are large multisystem alliances of worlds with fleets of spaceships.
True but they took Langara...we have to be more dangerous than them. plus they must know by now that earth took out the goa'uld and the replicators (well we did a big part). i think we are a greater strategic threat than the jaffa or the LA and we are easier to take out with a strike. so ya def something fishy going on

dss202529
September 22nd, 2006, 01:27 AM
Yep were arguably more dangerous, but they could probably take Langara with little to no risk and for very little expenditure of time and resources. The Ancient Outpost and the iris make us a much more interesting proposition.They can't easily gate in to attack us and an ancient outpost stocked with drones makes us iffy to attack directly.

Lets be honest we were lucky, the replicators took out the Goauld for us and we found us a super weapon to take care of the replicators, we can't threaten the Ori directly, their ships are practically invulnerable and it's risky for us to take on a single prior on the ground, but an attack on earth would be risking the destruction of one or more of the very few ships they have in our galaxy.

Tassadar
September 22nd, 2006, 01:34 AM
Yep were arguably more dangerous, but they could probably take Langara with little to no risk and for very little expenditure of time and resources. The Ancient Outpost and the iris make us a much more interesting proposition.They can't easily gate in to attack us and an ancient outpost stocked with drones makes us iffy to attack directly.

Lets be honest we were lucky, the replicators took out the Goauld for us and we found us a super weapon to take care of the replicators, we can't threaten the Ori directly, their ships are practically invulnerable and it's risky for us to take on a single prior on the ground, but an attack on earth would be risking the destruction of one or more of the very few ships they have in our galaxy.
hm true it would be a risk but no doubt the 3 ships would be able to take out the weapon. i mean if they read daniel's mind then they know we can't fully power it. also while it's true we were very lucky, we still did lead a pretty successful war on the goa'uld using guerrilla warfare. if i was an ori commander, i would be more worried about that kind of thing than threats from enemy ships. by now it must be clear to the ori that they have the most advanced ships.

Mister Oragahn
September 22nd, 2006, 03:19 AM
i mean if they read daniel's mind then they know we can't fully power it.

Is that true?

wise one
September 22nd, 2006, 04:19 AM
we just have to wait and see

Tassadar
September 22nd, 2006, 12:03 PM
ya i just assumed its true but ya no idea the extent of it.

Gilgamesh
September 22nd, 2006, 02:22 PM
hm true it would be a risk but no doubt the 3 ships would be able to take out the weapon. i mean if they read daniel's mind then they know we can't fully power it. also while it's true we were very lucky, we still did lead a pretty successful war on the goa'uld using guerrilla warfare. if i was an ori commander, i would be more worried about that kind of thing than threats from enemy ships. by now it must be clear to the ori that they have the most advanced ships.

Perhaps just 3 or fewer ships can take out Antarctica, but why bother taking the risk? If the Ori's intelligence is any good, then they know that, on the whole, Earth's population is bottled up on Earth. Relatively speaking, we aren't going anywhere. We don't have the means to migrate large populations to other planets, and with the exception of Antarctica, no real means to defend ourselves.

I suspect the Ori are simply going for the easy targets first, building up their armies with local recruits, until reinforcements arrive. THEN they will go for Earth, with perhaps dozens of Toiletflapper ships filled with troops. Or, they could always press a few dozen Ha'tak ships into service as troop carriers if they're short of Toiletflappers.

There’s a difference between simply attacking, and maintaining control of the population afterwards. For example, Hitler successfully invaded Russia, but was ultimately defeated because his army simply wasn’t big enough to keep what they had conquered. (Not to mention supply problems, not being prepared for the long haul, etc.)

As pointed out earlier, Earth probably has the largest population in the Galaxy--around 5 or 6 billion. An Earth full of Ori worshippers is the grand prize. There’s no point in attacking Earth until they have a big enough army to enforce the “peace” on the ground, deal with guerilla resistance groups, etc. Just the sheer logistics of a successful invasion is probably our only saving grace.

Mister Oragahn
September 22nd, 2006, 04:52 PM
As pointed out earlier, Earth probably has the largest population in the Galaxy--around 5 or 6 billion. An Earth full of Ori worshippers is the grand prize. There’s no point in attacking Earth until they have a big enough army to enforce the “peace” on the ground, deal with guerilla resistance groups, etc. Just the sheer logistics of a successful invasion is probably our only saving grace.

Huh, I think Delmak pretty much surclasses Earth in that domain. Shots from space saw the night side of the Goa'uld planet covered with continent sized lines of lights.
It's just a damn shame that Delmak was NEVER exploited to its true potential.

Col. Shadow Quinn
September 22nd, 2006, 05:09 PM
You might not think that 303/304s aren't very powerful, but look at the fact that we are always fighting defensively, being taken by suprise, fighting an enemy far stronger than the Asgard, and are usually up against larger numbers. We only have one ship in this galaxy and factions such as the LA, the Ori, and the Free Jaffa Nation have far more ships than we do. Our ships are meant to take out hataks in one on one battles, not one against 3 or more ships attacking us at the same time.

Gilgamesh
September 22nd, 2006, 07:23 PM
Huh, I think Delmak pretty much surclasses Earth in that domain. Shots from space saw the night side of the Goa'uld planet covered with continent sized lines of lights.
It's just a damn shame that Delmak was NEVER exploited to its true potential.

My own impression of Delmak (it's been a while since I've watched the relevant episodes) is it was more of a mining/factory operation than home. And wasn’t that the planet Apophis crashed into during his final demise? There may not be much left of Delmak to "exploit" any more. :)

But anyway, Earth is still a big prize for it's extraordinarily large population.

dss202529
September 22nd, 2006, 08:47 PM
And wasn’t that the planet Apophis crashed into during his final demise?

Are you sure that was his final demise???! This is Apophis were talking about;)

I wouldn't be surpised if he turned up as a prior next week ;)

Tassadar
September 23rd, 2006, 09:05 PM
Are you sure that was his final demise???! This is Apophis were talking about;)

I wouldn't be surpised if he turned up as a prior next week ;)
haha thatd be so funny.


Perhaps just 3 or fewer ships can take out Antarctica, but why bother taking the risk? If the Ori's intelligence is any good, then they know that, on the whole, Earth's population is bottled up on Earth. Relatively speaking, we aren't going anywhere. We don't have the means to migrate large populations to other planets, and with the exception of Antarctica, no real means to defend ourselves.

I suspect the Ori are simply going for the easy targets first, building up their armies with local recruits, until reinforcements arrive. THEN they will go for Earth, with perhaps dozens of Toiletflapper ships filled with troops. Or, they could always press a few dozen Ha'tak ships into service as troop carriers if they're short of Toiletflappers.

There’s a difference between simply attacking, and maintaining control of the population afterwards. For example, Hitler successfully invaded Russia, but was ultimately defeated because his army simply wasn’t big enough to keep what they had conquered. (Not to mention supply problems, not being prepared for the long haul, etc.)

As pointed out earlier, Earth probably has the largest population in the Galaxy--around 5 or 6 billion. An Earth full of Ori worshippers is the grand prize. There’s no point in attacking Earth until they have a big enough army to enforce the “peace” on the ground, deal with guerilla resistance groups, etc. Just the sheer logistics of a successful invasion is probably our only saving grace.

didn't the ori try to kill everyone on earth or atleast a lot of us using a virus? no way we would have survived if it wasn't for that ancient. so i don't think the ori care much about keeping most of earth's inhabitants alive. i think the ori don't really care much about the lives of the current inhabitants. i mean sure they would like to turn us instead of kill us, but killing us probably doesn't hurt them too much because the ones that follow them can always reproduce and i dont think time is an issue with the ori. also the ori took Heperdin (i think that's how its spelled) and that planet probably had a greater and much more advanced population than earth. we also know the most about the ori. admitadly its not much but if we could make an anti prior weapon i think the ori should consider us a threat, unless they are incredibly retarded in strategy like the goa'uld were. also they must know by now that we were responsible for the destruction of their ship. so ya imo, the reason why the ori still haven't attacked earth is still iffy.

AnotherEvilAlien
September 24th, 2006, 01:01 AM
Most of those encounters are against multiple ships tho.

B-I-N-G-O.

One on one, a BC-304 (hell, even the Prometheus), will knock the crap out of a standard Ha'tak. However, it seems they never attack one on one. It seems it's usually 3 or so... Kinda evens out the odds.

Don't forget either, that USUALLY (not all the time), the F-302s aren't scrambled either.

Adrius
September 24th, 2006, 01:31 AM
the jamming field probably extends outside the ship, otherwise it's useless...As a matter of fact, I would speculate the field has to reach at least as far as the ship it's jamming.

Buba uognarf
September 24th, 2006, 03:23 AM
As a matter of fact, I would speculate the field has to reach at least as far as the ship it's jamming.

well that could be really far, i reckon that the field is large enough to ensure a nuke detonation is of little concern...

i can't remember but does the jamming field interfere with beaming on targets away from the hives for example if the deadalus is in close proximity with a wraith ship would it be able to beam atall???

JadeTengu
September 24th, 2006, 05:23 AM
This may have been posted somewhere else in the thread, but I stopped skimming after page 3, so... Whatever happened to those Mk.9 bombs? The one set off for the first super-gate that vala blew up after-the-fact. Carter made it seem when the Jaffe Hataks jumped in that there would be one hell of an explosive radi on it that would potentially cause damage to all of them. So why not carry a payload of those? Its a crude weapon, not nearly as flashy as energy weapons, but the only thing better than being flashy is being alive. I would hope a Mk9 and soon maybe a Mk10 would be good enough to do some serious damage.

Btw, I still advocate the use of gates to blow up stars. Chances are if the enemy catches ya doing it, they'll hyperspace so far away that you'll never seem them in your lifetime anyways.

Tassadar
September 24th, 2006, 11:46 AM
This may have been posted somewhere else in the thread, but I stopped skimming after page 3, so... Whatever happened to those Mk.9 bombs? The one set off for the first super-gate that vala blew up after-the-fact. Carter made it seem when the Jaffe Hataks jumped in that there would be one hell of an explosive radi on it that would potentially cause damage to all of them. So why not carry a payload of those? Its a crude weapon, not nearly as flashy as energy weapons, but the only thing better than being flashy is being alive. I would hope a Mk9 and soon maybe a Mk10 would be good enough to do some serious damage.

Btw, I still advocate the use of gates to blow up stars. Chances are if the enemy catches ya doing it, they'll hyperspace so far away that you'll never seem them in your lifetime anyways.
maybe those bombds are just not worth being produced in mass. i believe they use naquadria and thats a pretty valueble element for us.

Gilgamesh
September 24th, 2006, 12:14 PM
haha thatd be so funny.

didn't the ori try to kill everyone on earth or atleast a lot of us using a virus? no way we would have survived if it wasn't for that ancient. so i don't think the ori care much about keeping most of earth's inhabitants alive. i think the ori don't really care much about the lives of the current inhabitants. i mean sure they would like to turn us instead of kill us, but killing us probably doesn't hurt them too much because the ones that follow them can always reproduce and i dont think time is an issue with the ori. also the ori took Heperdin (i think that's how its spelled) and that planet probably had a greater and much more advanced population than earth. we also know the most about the ori. admitadly its not much but if we could make an anti prior weapon i think the ori should consider us a threat, unless they are incredibly retarded in strategy like the goa'uld were. also they must know by now that we were responsible for the destruction of their ship. so ya imo, the reason why the ori still haven't attacked earth is still iffy.

Well sure, they only care about us in a strategic sense. The plague was designed to cause panic and a disruption of social structures worldwide. Once the stage is set with a collapse of governments, and 100’s of millions or more dead and dieing, the Ori could make a showy arrival with their “miracle” cure.

That would still leave billions of cured people as easy marks for conversion to Origin, and they would be able to easily impose Priors to rule what’s left. From the Ori point of view, wiping out half of Earth’s population may not be a bad thing anyway, because with a rollback to an agrarian society of farms and villages, Earth could not sustain its current population anyway.

And hey, if they didn’t make it to Earth on time to save half the population, oh well, you do have to break some eggs to make an omelet, conquer a galaxy, whatever. :)

Ravroz
September 25th, 2006, 01:14 PM
Well sure, they only care about us in a strategic sense. The plague was designed to cause panic and a disruption of social structures worldwide. Once the stage is set with a collapse of governments, and 100’s of millions or more dead and dieing, the Ori could make a showy arrival with their “miracle” cure.

That would still leave billions of cured people as easy marks for conversion to Origin, and they would be able to easily impose Priors to rule what’s left. From the Ori point of view, wiping out half of Earth’s population may not be a bad thing anyway, because with a rollback to an agrarian society of farms and villages, Earth could not sustain its current population anyway.

And hey, if they didn’t make it to Earth on time to save half the population, oh well, you do have to break some eggs to make an omelet, conquer a galaxy, whatever. :)
That makes a whole lot of sense and I never thought of it that way before. I always though of it as they were trying to wipe the inhabitants of Earth out. Instead they were simply trying to destabilize the entire planet and then come in and miraculously save everyone and convert them to Origin. Good thing they can't do that again. Since that attack failed, then why haven't they tried a direct attack on Earth? I mean they have to know that Earth is their greatest threat. That would seem to direct me to believe that the know of the weapons platform in Antartica...

Tassadar
September 25th, 2006, 05:03 PM
That makes a whole lot of sense and I never thought of it that way before. I always though of it as they were trying to wipe the inhabitants of Earth out. Instead they were simply trying to destabilize the entire planet and then come in and miraculously save everyone and convert them to Origin. Good thing they can't do that again. Since that attack failed, then why haven't they tried a direct attack on Earth? I mean they have to know that Earth is their greatest threat. That would seem to direct me to believe that the know of the weapons platform in Antartica...
ya i agree. it doesn't make sense for them to simply let us go about trying to stop them. actually one possible reason could be seen in the last episode.

maybe they needed us to find and destroy merlin's weapon

Andrew Joshua Talon
September 25th, 2006, 06:05 PM
We need to figure out how the Wraith jamming technology works. Does it disrupt the beaming technology's sensors, so that they can't precisely target and beam in a bomb? Does it create a disruption of some sort that nullifies that which actually allows the beaming to occur? We need to figure this out and soon.

Gilgamesh
September 25th, 2006, 06:23 PM
That makes a whole lot of sense and I never thought of it that way before. I always though of it as they were trying to wipe the inhabitants of Earth out. Instead they were simply trying to destabilize the entire planet and then come in and miraculously save everyone and convert them to Origin. Good thing they can't do that again. Since that attack failed, then why haven't they tried a direct attack on Earth? I mean they have to know that Earth is their greatest threat. That would seem to direct me to believe that the know of the weapons platform in Antartica...

I think this goes back to my earlier post, where I suggested they are simply biding their time, gathering an army among local populations, until they are good and ready to attack Earth. While we may be one of the biggest threats, I think the Ori, in their hubris, believe we ultimately cannot stop them. So far, we haven't proven them wrong either.

Thinking about it from their point of view, we're just one planet with relatively crude technology. We've understood nuclear power for less than a century, and only in the past 10 years been lucky enough to stumble over some advanced technology, which we barely know how to operate, and cannot even manufacture copies of what we find. (Afaik, we're still not capable of manufacturing our own Zat guns, for example. Even Zats are "found" items.) For the most part, we're still a technologically primitive society, and the population as a whole is stuck on our single planet with nowhere to go.

But primitive or not, it will still take a lot of logistical planning to both invade Earth and maintain control afterwards.

Daryl Froggy
September 25th, 2006, 06:27 PM
Will finding out what jams our transporters actually help us over come that? Or maybe we could use it to make sure no one gets 'ported out of the SGC.

Andrew Joshua Talon
September 25th, 2006, 06:42 PM
Will finding out what jams our transporters actually help us over come that? Or maybe we could use it to make sure no one gets 'ported out of the SGC.

Well, if we know HOW they do it, then that at least puts us on the first step towards figuring out how to counter it. To be honest by this point we should have figured something out if the Wraith jamming was detectable by our sensors. During the Cold War, ships and planes only used their active radar when it was absolutely nessecary because A: Active radar can be picked up and traced very easily if you have the technology, and both sides did, and B: The Americans and the Soviets both had instruments that allowed them to record the radar frequencies of the other side, in order to learn how to jam them better. It worked the same way with jamming technology: It's use was nessecary, of course, but every time you used it the enemy got a better idea of how you were jamming their sensors and communications by recording everything that happened to their equipment.

It's a basic arms race: Country A builds a radar system, Country B learns how to jam it. Country A learns how to counter Country B's jamming with better radar, Country B learns how to jam that better radar, and so on. You'd think that we'd be working overtime on how to counter the jamming since the Asgard sensors could clearly show when the Wraith turned it on and off. If we can detect that, we can begin to figure out how the jamming works and work on a way to get through it.

Ouroboros
September 25th, 2006, 11:02 PM
We need to figure out how the Wraith jamming technology works. Does it disrupt the beaming technology's sensors, so that they can't precisely target and beam in a bomb? Does it create a disruption of some sort that nullifies that which actually allows the beaming to occur? We need to figure this out and soon.

I think it's the latter. I seem to remember a thread about it where this came to light in more detail.

For one thing even the emergency beam out locators that McKay and Ronon had in allies didn't work when the jamming was up. Despite that though it doesn't mess with their ability to target the hiveship with weapons or see it visually. If you can do both of those then you should be able to make calculations to drop a bomb inside it fairly easily. Unless of course the beam itself is being blocked somehow.

Jimbo-DR
September 26th, 2006, 06:36 PM
I remember at least one episode where Carter mentions that the SGC actually has scramblers now to prevent the gate from being beamed out again. If we know how to do it, you'd think we'd be able to defeat the Wraith Countermeasures.

Tassadar
September 26th, 2006, 07:03 PM
I remember at least one episode where Carter mentions that the SGC actually has scramblers now to prevent the gate from being beamed out again. If we know how to do it, you'd think we'd be able to defeat the Wraith Countermeasures.
oh no that was different. the jammers just jammed any transport signal since the transporters that were used to steal the stargate in that episode needed little transponders to detect what it is transporting. they needed the transponders because their sensors weren't good enough to detect the stargate from space. so ya if a ship did have powerfull enough sensors, we know of no way to stop the transport.

PG15
September 26th, 2006, 07:04 PM
It was mentioned in "Endgame".

Presumably our scramblers are very different from theirs.

Jimbo-DR
September 27th, 2006, 04:40 PM
True but they are right in saying we should have defeated it by now. The Asgard dwarf the Wraith in technology and Hermiod never managed to fix it.
Its their effing technology they should know all the tricks about it. Plot device :(

Tassadar
September 27th, 2006, 04:43 PM
True but they are right in saying we should have defeated it by now. The Asgard dwarf the Wraith in technology and Hermiod never managed to fix it.
Its their effing technology they should know all the tricks about it. Plot device :(
i think it makes sense. the wraith have access to ancient technology. thus they probably know quite a bit about transporters and how to counter them. i mean there whole method of culling is based on transporters.

Jimbo-DR
September 27th, 2006, 04:54 PM
Where do the Wraith have access to Ancient Technology? The Wraith have little to do with the Ancients other than the fact that they were at war with them. Remember "Rising"?

The Hologram said they encountered a race with powers that rivaled their own. They were already there. And if they had access to Ancient Technology or Ancient Knowledge than their ships would be shielded, their hyperdrives would be faster, and Daedalus would go down after like 3 hits.

And the transporter is ASGARD technology, not Ancient. As far as we know the Asgard have never made contact with the Wraith. Although if this were really happening it would make sense for the Asgard to take a fleet through Pegasus and just decimate the Wraith. That wouldn't be very interesting TV though.

Tassadar
September 27th, 2006, 05:02 PM
Where do the Wraith have access to Ancient Technology? The Wraith have little to do with the Ancients other than the fact that they were at war with them. Remember "Rising"?

The Hologram said they encountered a race with powers that rivaled their own. They were already there. And if they had access to Ancient Technology or Ancient Knowledge than their ships would be shielded, their hyperdrives would be faster, and Daedalus would go down after like 3 hits.

And the transporter is ASGARD technology, not Ancient. As far as we know the Asgard have never made contact with the Wraith. Although if this were really happening it would make sense for the Asgard to take a fleet through Pegasus and just decimate the Wraith. That wouldn't be very interesting TV though.
hmm i think its been established that the wraith are a hybrid between the ancients and the iratus bug. the wraith gained there knowledge from the ancients. then they used this knowledge to wage war on the ancients.

as for the transporters, im sure they use similar principles. so the wraith who seem pretty masterful of transporters could come up with counter measures.

as for the asgard beating the wraith. at this point in time i dont think the asgard would have a chance against the wraith. the asgards are down to a handfull of ships and have just started to rebuild their civilization. no way they can take on the wraith.

Col. Shadow Quinn
September 27th, 2006, 09:40 PM
Our encounters with hostile ships.
Grace: Prometheus vs. Grace ship: it attacked unprovoked and we were taken by suprise.

Lost City: the BC-303 and 32 F-302s vs 46 Goa'uld motherships. seriously outnumbered.

Ethon: BC-303 and 6 F-302s vs. Ori satelitte weapon. Advanced tech beyond what we are capable of.

OTG: Odyssey vs. 3 hatak. Outnumbered and the Odyssey wasn't at 100%.

Camelot: 2 DSC-304s, 15+ hatak, 1 O'Neill class battleship vs. 4 Ori ships. Serious difference between levels of tech.

TPP: Odyssey vs. Hive ship: We were near a black hole, but we destroyed the hive ship and an Ori ship.

CoT: Odyssey vs. 3 hatak: We were taken by suprise, near a neutron star, and didn't notice the mine field until it was too late.

Siege Pt.3: Daedalus vs. hive ships: We were doing good until they jammed us.

The Hive: Daedalus vs. 2 Hive Ships: We were only trying to rescuing Sheppard and his team, the 2 hives destroyed each other.

Allies: Daedalus and Hive vs. Hive ship: We covered the friendly hive until it left and until the Jumper was in a 302 bay.

Allies: Daedalus and 4 F-302s vs. 2 Hives: Daedalus was taken completely by suprise.

No Man's Land: Daedalus and Orion vs. 2 Hives: We actually did good aside of the fact we lost the Orion, Daedalus's shields were depleted, and it took severe hull damage.

These are all our battles and how we fared. It also showed our disadvantages in the battles.

Aussie Attacker
September 27th, 2006, 11:47 PM
Geez, you guys expect way too much from a civilization that hasn't even been spacefaring for 10 years yet in that universe. There would be something horribly wrong if the Tauri were running around dishing out ownage. Everyone else has been in the starship business for millenia, expecting the Tauri to top that overnight is bordering on the insane. The Daedalus SHOULD get its butt kicked every time it goes up against these enemy ships, its basically a rowboat with titanium armor and an outboard motor going up against a proper navy. Theres no way in hell it should be doing anything other than trying to stay the heck away from things.

With sheilds and a Nuke!! Lol

DodoBrd16
September 28th, 2006, 01:29 AM
Say no to energy weapons.

Say yes to big spinal rail guns....

Accelerate a two ton slug to even a quarter the speed of light and nothing in the SG universe short of an Ori vessel(and I have my doubts here) is going to be able to stand up to your ship.

DodoBrd16
September 28th, 2006, 01:37 AM
While that is a very good point. I guess the ancients are blocking the Ori from acting directly in the galaxy. But, they sure aren't doing crap about their followers. One quick thing. Why doesn't the Deddy simply beam it's nukes right next to the hiveship. This would be much more effective than missile spamming the target. It could take only 3 maybe 4 nukes to take out a hive ship. Maybe even less.


Yup yup, beam them straight from their mags and light off their rockets the moment they re materialize.

Worst comes to worst, if the transporters wont work against the wraith, I say we just add the same prop units that the Death gliders employ on to our warheads. You'd have insane acceleration( remember how fast Jack and Teal'c made it to Jupiter) and manuverability in space.

dss202529
September 28th, 2006, 02:11 AM
well that could be really far, i reckon that the field is large enough to ensure a nuke detonation is of little concern...

i can't remember but does the jamming field interfere with beaming on targets away from the hives for example if the deadalus is in close proximity with a wraith ship would it be able to beam atall???

It can't extend as far as the ship it's jamming as Mckay, Ronon, Micheal and Sheppard were able to be beamed off the wraith scout ship in 3x01

I've always wondered why we don't use the beams to actually move the missiles for tactical purposes, say you fire off a flight of 3 or 4 missiles and then, just as the darts are closing in to intercept you beam them somewhere else, on a similar course and heading to the hive ship.

With a sufficently smart guidance computer onboard the missile, the missiles they then reaquire the target and kaboom.

Why they don't use the odd nuke for taking care of some darts as well is beyond me unless they also emit jamming signals.

Beam a small nuke into the path of an oncoming squadron/swarm of darts and then detonate it, you then don't have to worry about any damage they could do to the shields or ship. You also don't have to worry about redirecting rail guns to point defence and they can't intecept incoming missile fire on the hive from your ship.

Lord You
September 28th, 2006, 06:11 AM
Even if for arguments sake they did have a ZPM fully powered. What's to stop them from bombarding the outpost from orbit. It doesn't have shields that we're aware of, so like Da'kara. It would be very vulnerable to attack!

In The Lost City the first outpost they visited did have a sheild but it was depleted leaving a dome-shaped structure (they mention it in the episode). The Antartic outpost seemed identically contructed, so I see no reason it wouldn't have an shield.


Then the fact that McKay & all the others can miraculously repair PJ's, 'Aurora' class warships & all the uber advanced ancient tech. Yet they cannot stript down a Cargo ship, Al'kesh, Ha'tak of it's weapons & place them on a 304. Mckay can even screw around with Wraith tech & get that up & running. Yet they cannot stript down say the ship from 'The Defiant One' & take it's weapons or some other damaged Wraith ship they've come across on their travels whilst in Pegasus.

It is easier to fix a device with spar parts already available than to duplicate and integrate those parts into your own designs.


It's stuff like this that irks me no end & that's only to do with weapons, there is far more other aspects that I could equally go on about. It's being we hear they are all the smartest people that Earth has to offer, then if we dummies on the forums can think of it, why can't these uber smart techies on the show.

It's all totally un-realistic, the writers introduce stuff, then simply completely ignore it soon after. Joe Mallozzi said on here than PJ's don't have shields, then a few months later re-posted in his old thread that it turned out that they did have shields all along. It seems they write stuff, then make the rest up as they go along, backtracking & ignoring previous eps whenever they please.

Don't be so egotistical. :mckay:

Mister Oragahn
September 28th, 2006, 06:41 AM
In The Lost City the first outpost they visited did have a sheild but it was depleted leaving a dome-shaped structure (they mention it in the episode). The Antartic outpost seemed identically contructed, so I see no reason it wouldn't have an shield.

It is easier to fix a device with spar parts already available than to duplicate and integrate those parts into your own designs.

Don't be so egotistical. :mckay:

1. This is likely.
2. Strapping a canon does not require insane knowledge, just how to plug a power source and which way to spin a screw driver.
3. I fail to see what's egobiased about his reply.

Schrodinger82
September 29th, 2006, 12:51 PM
This may have been posted somewhere else in the thread, but I stopped skimming after page 3, so... Whatever happened to those Mk.9 bombs? The one set off for the first super-gate that vala blew up after-the-fact.

NEROUS: *activates hologram* Now. Here is the latest transmission from my satellite… As you can see, the force field continues to expand in phases and as it does so, it weakens considerably.

LANDRY: Enough to penetrate with our beaming technology?

NEROUS: Yes, wi-wit-with those nuclear devices that you were talking about.

LANDRY: Or SG1. They could talk to this Prior. face to face.

NEROUS: Why? Wh-why would they do that?

LANDRY: We resort to force… only when necessary.

It's not up to you to prove that these weapons are necessary. SGC seems to have gotten fine without them.


Carter made it seem when the Jaffe Hataks jumped in that there would be one hell of an explosive radi on it that would potentially cause damage to all of them. So why not carry a payload of those?

You just answered your own question. Two words: Collatoral damage.


For one thing even the emergency beam out locators that McKay and Ronon had in allies didn't work when the jamming was up. Despite that though it doesn't mess with their ability to target the hiveship with weapons or see it visually. If you can do both of those then you should be able to make calculations to drop a bomb inside it fairly easily. Unless of course the beam itself is being blocked somehow.

CARTER: *Working on her laptop, the three turn to look at her* Well, this is interesting. There's a signal coming from inside the interrogation room. He must have implanted himself with a locator beacon.

VALA: No doubt he's expecting his people to beam him out at some point.

MITCHELL: He'd better not hold his breath.

VALA: Why not?

CARTER: Well…after the Stargate was stolen two years ago, we installed jamming devices to prevent anyone from locking on to a signal from within the base.

Later...

LANDRY: How the hell did he do it?

CARTER: It looks like the locator beacons actually served a dual purpose. In close proximity they combined to amplify the signal…enough to be picked up through our jamming screen.

In other words, jamming technology works by creating a "screen," which can be overwhelmed by creating a sufficiently powerful signal. Nowhere does Carter say or imply that jamming technology works by nullifying the actual process, nor would Ba'als solution be particularily effective if that were the case.

Your "it doesn't mess with their ability to target the hiveship with weapons or see it visually" rebuttal doesn't fly, either. I'm sure that Ba'al's ship would have no problem targeting Cheyene or seeing it visually either. There's a big, big difference between working on the quantum scale (as do the Asgrd transports), and working on the visual scale (as with a 4 km hive ship.).


Where do the Wraith have access to Ancient Technology? The Wraith have little to do with the Ancients other than the fact that they were at war with them. Remember "Rising"?

Right. And I'm sure that they're ability to construct portable DHDs like the ones found in the PJs, the fact that their entire written language is derivative of Ancient, the fact that their entire evolution was spurred by the Ancients, and the fact that their culling beams are fully compatible with stargate crystals is completely coincidental.

Apparently, the Wraith were developing culling beams long before they had written language and opposable thumbs.


Say no to energy weapons.

Say yes to big spinal rail guns....

Accelerate a two ton slug to even a quarter the speed of light and nothing in the SG universe short of an Ori vessel(and I have my doubts here) is going to be able to stand up to your ship.

Right, being creating 2 ton slugs and accelerating them to .25 c in a fraction of a second is going to be so easy!

The implication from the recent episode was that the railguns are less powerful than their missiles.

Atlanis
September 29th, 2006, 01:25 PM
Deadalus ships are powerfull, Deadalus has destoryed

3 hive ships

1 scout

and a coupple of hundred darts

It stood up to the Aincent weapon in the Derandan system

Oddasey;

Attacked 3 lucian Ha'tacks and suvirved

Survived an attack by the four ori ships

1 wrath hive ship causing the destruction of and Ori battle ship

suvirved an ambush by another 3 Ha'tack and a entered a mine field and a survived

they are pretty power ful

Wraith_Hunter
September 29th, 2006, 01:56 PM
In The Lost City the first outpost they visited did have a sheild but it was depleted leaving a dome-shaped structure (they mention it in the episode). The Antartic outpost seemed identically contructed, so I see no reason it wouldn't have an shield.



It is easier to fix a device with spar parts already available than to duplicate and integrate those parts into your own designs.



Don't be so egotistical. :mckay:


1. Because 1 had it, it doesn't mean that the other automatically has to have one as well. If you actually opened your eyes, you will have seen I said that we're aware of.

2. So you think 'Orion' has 'spar' parts lying around. That's right, it was under the bridge in the spare parts cupboard in Atlantis wasn't it. :rolleyes: You say that these spares were already available & so they din't have to worry about making new ones. So I ask you to show me 1 single line, scene in Atlantis that shows them having spare parts for a PJ, Warship, Atlantis or whatever. They can read the computer on the spares room, but they can't find it to naviage how to get ot the ZPM's, Drones, Ancient toaster or whatever. Puuhhleeasee!!!!!

3. I ask you do you actually know what that word even means. If you did, then you will have known that it doesn't apply to what I put at all. I wasn't stroking my ego by trying to show off, I was pointing out the writers mistakes regarding the way they portray things being done on the show. Surely if anything, it would be stroking the particular writers ego to simply ignore these holes & say how great it all is. Even though a 5 year old can see a problem with the way things have been handled on screen.

DodoBrd16
September 29th, 2006, 03:28 PM
"Right, being creating 2 ton slugs and accelerating them to .25 c in a fraction of a second is going to be so easy!

The implication from the recent episode was that the railguns are less powerful than their missiles."

... so creating a tear into subspace and cross the distances between galaxies in mere days is just a sunday stroll through the park?
;)

Now, just for the clarification, the mass and velocity of the slug can be adjusted, in fact the numbers that I stated would probably be a level of over kill not seen since Sam did a little bit of galactic spring cleaning...:p

It needn't be two tons and it need not be a quarter the speed of light, however I do not doubt this universe capable of such technological achievements, after all, how fast do you think that death glider was going when it took off with Jack and Teal'c?

Schrodinger82
September 29th, 2006, 05:19 PM
... so creating a tear into subspace and cross the distances between galaxies in mere days is just a sunday stroll through the park?
;)

Apparently so. Welcome to scifi.

Ludofjn
September 29th, 2006, 06:22 PM
Then the fact that McKay & all the others c
Then comes this one which is bigger than all the rest. In 'It's good to be king', O'neill uses a PJ to take out a Ha'tak with only 2 Drones. We've seen Odyssey charge in blindly against Ha'taks & get it's ass kicked every single time. Being that Atlantis had a dozen or so then more from 'The Tower', then wouldn't it be prudent to station 1 or 2 on board Odysssey. This way if they ever get into trouble, they simply open the bay doors, erect the forcefield around it & fire Drones safely at the Ha'taks from inside the protected ship. Bang....Ha'taks get destroyed in the blink of an eye. The best about it, they alrteady have the weapons, so requires them to do absolutely nothing, other than bring them back on Daedalus from Pegasus.
WTF YOU NEVER CHALENGE THE GOD THAT IS O'NIELL

GreyFox
September 29th, 2006, 07:42 PM
"Right, being creating 2 ton slugs and accelerating them to .25 c in a fraction of a second is going to be so easy!

The implication from the recent episode was that the railguns are less powerful than their missiles."

... so creating a tear into subspace and cross the distances between galaxies in mere days is just a sunday stroll through the park?
;)

Now, just for the clarification, the mass and velocity of the slug can be adjusted, in fact the numbers that I stated would probably be a level of over kill not seen since Sam did a little bit of galactic spring cleaning...:p

It needn't be two tons and it need not be a quarter the speed of light, however I do not doubt this universe capable of such technological achievements, after all, how fast do you think that death glider was going when it took off with Jack and Teal'c?


that tearing a hole in subspace is only possible to the stolen goauld tech and later asgard. unlike those of BSG which created everything themselves. earth of sg1 didn't.

GreyFox
September 29th, 2006, 07:44 PM
WTF YOU NEVER CHALENGE THE GOD THAT IS O'NIELL


grow up oneill's a character on tv. like the goauld he's no god. in fact he's angus. macguyver a mere human.


adria's hotness is unrivaled in sci fi

Col. Shadow Quinn
September 29th, 2006, 08:13 PM
It is very powerful, look at our list of battles against enemy capital ships at the end of page one.

jds1982
September 29th, 2006, 08:17 PM
It can't extend as far as the ship it's jamming as Mckay, Ronon, Micheal and Sheppard were able to be beamed off the wraith scout ship in 3x01

I've always wondered why we don't use the beams to actually move the missiles for tactical purposes, say you fire off a flight of 3 or 4 missiles and then, just as the darts are closing in to intercept you beam them somewhere else, on a similar course and heading to the hive ship.

With a sufficently smart guidance computer onboard the missile, the missiles they then reaquire the target and kaboom.

Why they don't use the odd nuke for taking care of some darts as well is beyond me unless they also emit jamming signals.

Beam a small nuke into the path of an oncoming squadron/swarm of darts and then detonate it, you then don't have to worry about any damage they could do to the shields or ship. You also don't have to worry about redirecting rail guns to point defence and they can't intecept incoming missile fire on the hive from your ship.

Unfortunately the reason they were able to beam them off the ship wasn't because they were out of the range of the jamming, said jamming was turned off by Michael. As far as clearing the path by nuking darts, that might work, if the darts are extremely close to each other. The radius of a nuclear blast in space is not as large as you'd think it would be, although I imagine say a Mark IX would have a significantly large radius to do the trick, but you'd have to mount that on a missile, and that'd be a bit overboard for darts.
Here's a good link showing the range of nukes in space http://www.projectrho.com/rocket/rocket3x.html

DodoBrd16
September 29th, 2006, 09:23 PM
Apparently so. Welcome to scifi.


Well if you can accept that, why is it hard to accept accelerating that much mass to such a velocity using the current SGC/Earth tech?

DodoBrd16
September 29th, 2006, 09:26 PM
Unfortunately the reason they were able to beam them off the ship wasn't because they were out of the range of the jamming, said jamming was turned off by Michael. As far as clearing the path by nuking darts, that might work, if the darts are extremely close to each other. The radius of a nuclear blast in space is not as large as you'd think it would be, although I imagine say a Mark IX would have a significantly large radius to do the trick, but you'd have to mount that on a missile, and that'd be a bit overboard for darts.
Here's a good link showing the range of nukes in space http://www.projectrho.com/rocket/rocket3x.html

A high enough yield warhead and you wouldn't have to relly upon the kinetic aspect of the detonation... the energy flash alone would vaporize anything close.

Schrodinger82
September 29th, 2006, 11:09 PM
Well if you can accept that, why is it hard to accept accelerating that much mass to such a velocity using the current SGC/Earth tech?Because Earth didn't come up with the hyperdrives on their own, they had the help. Keep in mind that the show is still based heavily in the "real" world, and the whole idea is that all this stuff is going on right beneath our noses. It's not Star Trek.

Also keep in mind that the railguns were apparently able to be used as standalone weapons, and sent to SGA. From that, you can try to gauge the power source and recoil.

jds1982
September 30th, 2006, 07:06 AM
A high enough yield warhead and you wouldn't have to relly upon the kinetic aspect of the detonation... the energy flash alone would vaporize anything close.

Yes but it would have to be very close, the energy from a nuclear detonation in space is subject to the inverse square law, so that a 1 kiloton warhead isn't going to affect much outside a 1 kilometer radius, and that's pretty close even for the SGverse. I'm not saying it wouldn't work, I'm just saying that it might be overkill to just take out darts. Notice however that I didn't say overkill was a bad thing.

Mister Oragahn
September 30th, 2006, 10:36 AM
No matter a wraith jamming, the 304 can perfectly point out where a hiveship is, and locate all the darts around, by using sensors. It's quite obvious that the numerical data can only be translated from analogic information, thus the sensors.
Beaming a nuke roughly hundreds of meters away from a hiveship's hull would not be a problem at all, since you know where things are.

GreyFox
September 30th, 2006, 12:03 PM
Well if you can accept that, why is it hard to accept accelerating that much mass to such a velocity using the current SGC/Earth tech?


the 304 engines aren't earth tech. they're serrakin oin drives. the trinium alloy used in their hulls are alien in origin (prolly from saresh planet?). sensors, beaming tech and hyperdrives are asgard. naq is from unas world of enemy mine. naquadria is from jonas world. crystals are tokra/goauld/asgard/maybe alteran. computers are ours (conroe?!). goauld rings. lcds are ours. that's bout it.

Actionhank
September 30th, 2006, 07:33 PM
lcds are ours.
LOL - don't forget the toggle switches and diodes. ;)

jenks
September 30th, 2006, 07:42 PM
the 304 engines aren't earth tech. they're serrakin oin drives.

Speculation.

DodoBrd16
October 1st, 2006, 09:31 PM
Because Earth didn't come up with the hyperdrives on their own, they had the help. Keep in mind that the show is still based heavily in the "real" world, and the whole idea is that all this stuff is going on right beneath our noses. It's not Star Trek.

Also keep in mind that the railguns were apparently able to be used as standalone weapons, and sent to SGA. From that, you can try to gauge the power source and recoil.

We may not have developed them on our own, but we understand the technology well enough to create a compact unit for the interstellar variant of the 302.

As for rail gun tech, that is something we understand now, we know how to accelerate mass using magnetic accelerators. The issue is not a lack of knowledge, its a lack of power.

And the Naquadah reactors solve that.

Heaven
October 1st, 2006, 10:28 PM
Isn't it funny that even goauld cargo ships can use long range sensors to scan a place before they drop out of hyperspace and we just drop out of hyperspace clueless and get our butts kicked.

freyr's mother
October 2nd, 2006, 05:45 AM
It can't extend as far as the ship it's jamming as Mckay, Ronon, Micheal and Sheppard were able to be beamed off the wraith scout ship in 3x01

Michael disabled the jamming field before they left the ship.

Raj_2006
October 2nd, 2006, 07:56 AM
Isn't it funny that even goauld cargo ships can use long range sensors to scan a place before they drop out of hyperspace and we just drop out of hyperspace clueless and get our butts kicked.


If your talking about"Comapny of Thieves" them u must have forgotten tht there was a Neutron Star thier and sam did mention it was affecting the ship, e.g. sensors, shields etc, if tht neutron star was not thier then the odyssey would be have survived easliy and colonel emerson would still be alive.

Heaven
October 2nd, 2006, 11:42 AM
that's the second time its happened to them already
and the least they could have done was detect the neutron star before they drop out of hyperspace
besides even if it wasn't a trap, imagine the odyssey exiting hyperspace and two seconds later a fleet of 10 ori ships firing at it