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GateWorld
September 8th, 2006, 06:17 PM
<DIV ALIGN="center"><TABLE WIDTH="450" BORDER="0" CELLSPACING="0" CELLPADDING="7"><TR><TD STYLE="border:0;"><DIV ALIGN="left"><FONT FACE="Verdana, Arial, san-serif" SIZE="2" COLOR="#000000"><A HREF="http://www.gateworld.net/atlantis/s3/310.shtml"><IMG SRC="http://www.gateworld.net/atlantis/graphics/310.jpg" WIDTH="160" HEIGHT="120" ALIGN="right" HSPACE="10" VSPACE="2" BORDER="0" STYLE="border: 1px black solid" ALT="Visit the Episode Guide"></A><FONT SIZE="1" COLOR="#888888">ATLANTIS SEASON THREE</FONT>
<FONT SIZE="4"><A HREF="http://www.gateworld.net/atlantis/s3/310.shtml" STYLE="text-decoration: none">THE RETURN, PART 1</A></FONT>
<FONT SIZE="1">EPISODE NUMBER - 310</FONT>
<IMG SRC="/images/clear.gif" WIDTH="1" HEIGHT="10" ALT="">
The Atlantis expedition is stunned to learn that a ship full of Ancients is returning to reclaim their lost city.

<FONT SIZE="1" COLOR="#888888"><B><A HREF="http://www.gateworld.net/atlantis/s3/310.shtml">VISIT THE EPISODE GUIDE ></A></B>
SPOILERS! PHOTOS! AND MORE!</FONT></FONT></DIV></TD></TR></TABLE></DIV>

Dromag67
September 22nd, 2006, 07:02 PM
Awesome epsiode.

Now its going to leave my mouth watering for 6 months... So cruel.

Definently opened up soo many possibilities for the future, plus the Genii are looking nicer and nicer for the future as actual allies.

siXbrownSnakes2
September 22nd, 2006, 07:02 PM
Ugh, it was a set up episode.

Shame that a lot of people have to wait to march to view the "real" part of the two parter. It looks great.

The team interaction in this was superb, but I do have a problem with them defying direct orders of the SGC. And Landry's reaction made me laugh.

I hope to see the 2nd part of the episode when the Canadian channel gets the episode.

I was also relieved that the "ancients" in the ship were REAL ancients and it wasn't the team falling for yet another trap. I hope that the Ancients havent completely eradicated from the city and that there are remnants of them left that are rescued to hopefully get SOME knowledge out of it.

Looking forward to part 2.

CYBEREAGLE19
September 22nd, 2006, 07:02 PM
wow what an episode, I cant wait to see how this comes about, what happend to the ship though?

sharkface217
September 22nd, 2006, 07:03 PM
Although the episode was a total setup, it wasn't too bad. I give it a solid 8/10. It is interesting to see that the only person who can't move on after the end of the Atlantis expedition is Dr. Weir.

We learn that Sheppard is only 1/4 the way through War and Peace. The offer of the Genii (at the end) was very interesting, and I'm sure this will be built upon in the future. Rodney had what looked like an awesome office.

Also interesting to note the new anti-replicator guns. They look awesome.



My $0.02

NowIWillDestroyAbydos
September 22nd, 2006, 07:06 PM
I'll going to describe this mid-season finale in 4 Words: Worst Mid-Season Finale Ever. The episode was awesome but the ending sucked, SG-1's Mid-Season finale cliffhanger.
Thankfully I can see the conclusion becuase I'm going to pirate it because it airs in Canada in about a month before it airs in the States
Good to see Jack and Bill Lee again.

bumontheroad
September 22nd, 2006, 07:06 PM
dang...yet another shipload of ancients that's not gonna be showing up later in the series...

who else thinks that all of the ancients are just gonna happen to be killed off by the Asurans?

Bobthespirit
September 22nd, 2006, 07:07 PM
Good episode, in general. Good pacing and character writing, good to see Anderson actually trying again.

I don't like the whole replicator thing.

If you're going to introduce a new villain, it should be a NEW villain. Not a slight variation on a villain that was already done to death in SG1.

They might as well introduce a new villain called the 'Bu'ald which are born in Pegasus, are parasites that control people, and make their noses glow and speak in a high voice.

Jodi518
September 22nd, 2006, 07:09 PM
Wow...if the Canada gets the episode first i dont think i want to know what happens until the US gets it.

I want to be suprised. I going to die i hate this six month thing...im depressed right now.

But want an awesome episode, i hate two parters.

creed462
September 22nd, 2006, 07:12 PM
Great now we got six months on egg shells

Merlin7
September 22nd, 2006, 07:14 PM
I really liked this one. The way it felt so much like FAMILY breaking up. All the interactions. I think my fave part was Ronon and Teyla in Shep's room and the whole scene and the best moment with Ronon picking up Shep. They've all come such a long way and they're all just FAMILY!

Was surprised to see Ladon. That was cool continuity.

Loved the dinner with the four. Loved how everyone was so IN character for what they were doing. Shep without Rodney on his team. You know he was missing Ronon and Teyla too.

The four heading off, Shep slapping off Landry's message, them hooking back up with Teyla and Ronon. The family back together and now off to try and get their HOME back.

It just worked on every level. Finally.

and the freaky thing? Sheppard looked so young. I think he really did get younger from the Wraith.

And Joe looked gorgeous. Always my icing on the cake.

prion
September 22nd, 2006, 07:16 PM
It rocked!

Hate that we have to wait till March to see the end, although I'm going to do my best to see if my Canuck buddy can tape it, whatever for me!

I assume we can discuss spoilers, yes??

I see soooo much fanfic fodder. They're on earth for SIX WEEKS!

Elizabeth is sinking into depression
John is just making do with what he's got; not like he can quit
Rodney is lonely!
Beckett's got turtles (ha, they make good soup!)
Ronon and Teyla are being courted by the Genii.... makes sense.

My favorite favorite moment. When Ronon gave John that hug in his room! Yes, team bonding (and no, not slash). Aw.......... plus his muttering of "we should have left them there" in regards to rescuing the Ancients.

Also loved when Shepaprd cut off Landry before the *C* word could get mentioned (as in courtmartialed). However, I suspect that he'll get nothing more than a slap on the wrist when this is done, cuz he'll save O'Neill's and Woolsey's butts on Atlantis and Jack will go "okay, just this one time," and clean the slate.

I loved it. Hated the end just leaving us there, but we know part 2 will be action packed since the replicators have taken the city. I hate to think of the repairs that will be needed as I'm sure the city's been shot to bits.

Captain-Peregrine
September 22nd, 2006, 07:19 PM
OMG! I thought this was great. I am never disappointed with SGA two parters or mid-season two parters and this is certainly no exception. I love how it went from very excited with the McKay/Carter intergalactic gate system to very subdued and sad when the Ancients retook Atlantis and cast aside the humans. I felt so bad for Elizabeth--she just needed a huge hug! And then when it ended all tense and... OMG! I loved it!

Yay, Carson, for getting Elizabeth back on her feet. And I loved seeing her in the vest and jacket. And this episode also totally reminded me of the SG-1 season one finale--I can't remember, is it the Serpent's Lair? I forget because there are too many episodes with the word "Serpent" in them--when they stole the jumper and totally disobeyed orders. And they were all so determined to do it, too. But, then, I would be, too. They must have all been bored out of their skulls and lonely as hell. I thought it was poor thinking on Earth's part to seperate them all, but I loved how they were getting together for drinks and dinner and whatever else.

Oh, I am so going to go crazy after six months. I could have done three well enough. Six... yeah, that seems unlikely. lol My season 2 DVDs--whenever I get them--are going to be bloody worn out by the time season 3 begins again. :P

Okay, so to end this--not disappointed at all. Not for one second. It just got better and better and better for me. Loved every damned second. Yay!

May six months FLY by!

Atlantean Engineer
September 22nd, 2006, 07:20 PM
I loved it. Hated the end just leaving us there, but we know part 2 will be action packed since the replicators have taken the city. I hate to think of the repairs that will be needed as I'm sure the city's been shot to bits. They'll probably salvage parts off the Ancient ship to fix the city. It could also give TPTB a chance to remodel the gate room ;)

TattertotLove
September 22nd, 2006, 07:22 PM
OMG!!!! Great epsiode!!! I knew I would regret watching this episode becuase I knew at the end I would see those 3 awful words "To Be Continued". Now I hate myself for watching it but it was such a good episode!! I can't believe I have to wait so long for "The Return Part 2".:(

Some real high emotions ran through this episode. I love the feelings everyone produced. :)

MarshAngel
September 22nd, 2006, 07:23 PM
That was interesting. Oddly enough what most interested me was their defying orders and hurting people at the SGC. I hope they don't go and reward their choice when they win later. It would be interesting to see John lose his position as military leader and have to take orders from someone else.

DJFavorite
September 22nd, 2006, 07:25 PM
I missed part of the episode (but will catch the rest later), but all I could think of was "So when did Linea/Ke'ra become an ancient?" :cool:

KindlyKeller
September 22nd, 2006, 07:29 PM
Really good episode. Brutal to be left hanging, but I thought they were clicking on all cylinders and I really look forward to the second part.

I'm very thankful also, like someone above me, that these were real Ancients and our heroes weren't made total fools of again.

jburrows
September 22nd, 2006, 07:30 PM
very good episode.

FoolishPleasure
September 22nd, 2006, 07:30 PM
I liked the episode quite a bit, but I didn't believe the "Ancients" were really Ancients. I think its a trick by the Replicators.

ShadowMaat
September 22nd, 2006, 07:32 PM
Hmm. The best part of this ep was all the off-duty stuff and team bonding moments. Although given some of the rumors circulating, Carson's "Goodbye, Rodney" gave me an unpleasant case of the jeebies. :S

The scene with Lee was kinda sad and embarrassing. The whole ubergeek thing gets done to death with every other scientist, why Lee too?

That whole sneaking around, gaining access and preparing to storm the castle steal a jumper and head back to Pegasus was good, but I spent the whole time thinking, "This is classic SG-1!" I don't want to be thinking SG-1 when I'm watching Atlantis, regardless of the setting. I want to think, "This is classic Atlantis!" because- get this- that's the show I'm trying to watch! *sigh*

I love Carson. I really do. He's never been one of my favorites, but every time TPTB actually let the poor bugger out of whatever dank dark cell they keep him in, I love him to pieces. More so now than ever. All those lovely little touches that make him so Carson. :) Simply wonderful.

Shep having trouble with his "new team" was predictible and put me immediately in mind of Jack's attempts to find a "socio-political geek" at the beginning of S6. Right down to the "replacements" being accident-prone idiots. *sigh* It'd have been a lot more interesting if the bonding was going well and Shep was fitting into the scene. He could still have resentment and the nagging sense that things aren't as good as they could be, but he could still manage. I'd rather see that than some sitcom moment. And it'd have made Shep's later zatting of Doofus #1 a more interesting scene than "you're an idiot and I feel no guilt over zatting you and stuffing you in a weapons locker."

Weir's reaction to being back on Earth was... good. I kinda like that side of her and she looked positively human for the first time in a long time. Not a puppet, not a figurehead, but an actual flesh-and-blood human being. I wish we could see more of that. Maybe it really IS just the hair thing.... HOWEVER, while her puddling-around-the-apartment scene was good and led to the WONDERFUL intervention by Carson (have I mentioned I love him?) I wonder how things would have played out if she, too, had settled in and moved on. I can understand why she didn't, I guess, and I suppose it fits with her character. I just hope she doesn't come off as being pathetic. I'm not a big fan of Weir as she's currently being written (*stabs pins in her PTB voodoo dolls*) but part of the problem is that I really like Torri and I hate to see her character being mistreated. I hope that's not what's happening here. Again. :rolleyes:

Hated Jack. Sorry, but I did. He's not fun anymore. He comes across (to me, anyway) as stilted and out of place and not really "there." His presence also screamed stuntcasting.

Didn't think much of the Ancients, not that we saw much of them. I did wonder if they were really Ancients or if it was all some Replicator ploy. After all they know that Team Atlantis becomes- as someone on the TWOP boards put it- "a bunch of squeeing fangirls" whenever the Ancients pop up, so voila! The Ancients pop up... just in time to intercept a Replicator attack. Yeah. Nice timing.

The story didn't interest me much. The characters were pretty good, all things considered, but the whole ep was set-up, which I find annoying and judging from the comments I'm seeing, I'm not alone in that.

The thing is, it wasn't even a very GOOD set-up, IMO. It was more like Standard Plot Cliche #47.

But whatever. Carson was good. Rodney was good. Weir was as good as she can be (*stabs in more pins*) and the others were... passable. Pity Ronon and Teyla were once again relegated to the kiddy table and that the whole Genii thing was just a way to pass time and show how quickly things might change without Team Atlantis around to get in their way. *sigh* I think they should join the Genii anyway. At least they'd be put to good use.

Sepik
September 22nd, 2006, 07:32 PM
(Repost) Oops... posted this in the live discussion thread by accident...

ZOMG I LOVED IT!

*ahem*

Wow.

The character interaction was great. Especially the stuff about World of Warcraft. Was anyone else disturbed by the fact that Rodney seemed to know some about the game...?

Sully9989
September 22nd, 2006, 07:32 PM
Well i'm gonna start off by saying great episode.
But did anyone think that this whole thing was just a copy of the season 1-2 two parter from SG1 (badguys coming to earth but the team defies order and goes out to stop them) they were even dressed the same. still it was a great ep. LOVED the world of warcraft part.

O'Neil
September 22nd, 2006, 07:33 PM
Well, its not often I say this, but this was one of the better episodes. Now I just hate the fact that I have to wait until March to see the continuation.

Jumper One
September 22nd, 2006, 07:34 PM
Did this episode remind anyone else of "2010" (and a bunch of other Sg-1 episodes....)? But anyway still good... :)

Ironic
September 22nd, 2006, 07:37 PM
This episode was a good builder for what I'm hoping is an awesome episode. While its done better than the "Lost Boys" and "Allies" in keeping me in suspense for the next season premiere, it doesn't hold a candle to the way "The Storm" ended.

Still I love the character interactions, especially the parting scenes. The three scientist bonding (Rodney, Radek, and Carson), the three warriors (John, Ronon, and Teyla), and the two in charge (John and Elizabeth). Those were so heartwarming and touching. Really love the dynamic between all those scenes that shined through.

Let's go down the list:

John: Is it me, or did he seem really nervous in the beginning when he goes through all those Stargate-connect-a-dots? Looked almost constipated. Loved that no one could replace his team, and how he was really apathetic in his position at the SGC. Despite Landry's words, chemistry can be over-night, just not with the new guys. John's little choked up farewell to Teyla, and how Ronon had playfully lifted him up and hugged him in his room? Wow. Totally feeling the team-loving there.

Elizabeth: I think they handled this in a very interesting way. Her becoming isolated and depressed about losing Atlantis is just so Elizabeth. Gotta love the girl and her dedication to her job, her city, and her people. What I love about Elizabeth the most is that she's a leader that doesn't cut off her emotions. I love that TPTB aren't afraid to show that side of her. I can already hear some people inevitably call this display of emotions "weak," but it's isn't that at all. She feels. She's human. That's awesome. That's awesome writing, too.

Teyla: Gosh, you had lines! And things to do and everything! (Not nearly enough screentime, but I'll take what I can get from the PTB at this point). You and Ronon are all together and holding down the fort in the Pegasus Galaxy. Although the PTB have a tendency to attach you two at the hip, I still cannot get enough of your dynamic because it works - not in a shipper way, mind you. It's more comradery and unflinching loyalty and friendship that you guys have with each other.

Ronon: ditto to the above. I loved your interactions with Ladon too!

Ladon: I was pleasantly surprised to see you there! I really hope the PTB take more advantage of his character. He was there for all of a minute, but he made that scene interesting just by his mere presence!

Carson: The wee turtles! The choked emotion in front of Rodney and Radek. The support you lent to Elizabeth. You = awesome. Although I'm sad to hear you and Cadman broke up.

Plus, on a shallow and general note, everybody looked insanely hot this episode. That one scene from the Earth restaurant, I swear Sheppard was going to spontaneously combust from hottness, followed closely by Elizabeth, Carson, and then Rodney. I guess I'm so use to seeing them in uniforms, that civilian clothes really stand out and pop. Every one looked good. Hell, even when Elizabeth geared up in a military black vest (it wasn't dwarfing her this time, thank you wardrobe department), she still looked good.

Once again, this show is all about the characters. The plot in this episode was lacking, but only because it was basically a setup for the next episode. But the character moments and chemistry between everyone drove the show onwards.

Edit: Also, to anyone that saw 'ship, you have to admit that there was quite literally shippy scenes between nearly every single duo (and sometimes trio, and if one includes that last restaurant scene, foursome!). From Carson/Elizabeth, to McShep, to Sheyla, to Sparky, to Spanky, to whatever the hell combination you can think of (Except Weir/Ronon. That one was missing). It was all there. So, really, I don't think any one can wave this episode around as a banner for their preferred ship and the condemnation of any other. Personally, I'm gonna go with the interpretation that there was nothing overtly shippy at all in this episode. It was all about loving, but not the shipping kind.

ShadowMaat
September 22nd, 2006, 07:38 PM
Oh yes and guess what? We got another ZPM! Gosh! Wow! Isn't that nifty? That took all of, what, two episodes for the power problem to be solved?

Gee, don't strain yourself too hard there, writers. :rolleyes:

Hatusu
September 22nd, 2006, 07:39 PM
So few people here tonight. The huge storm we were having with hail and tornado warnings kindly abated in time to plug everything back in so I could watch the shows.

I really enjoyed this episode. I loved all the "moments". Ronin lifting Sheppard off his feet. Sheppard touching foreheads with Teyla, McKay admitting he's lonely and Carson visiting Weir in her messy apartment. It's nice to know she's not perfect.

I also enjoyed the techie moments: the explanation and implementation of the Gate network and the discovery of the Ancient ship. When the Daedalus was trying to attract the attention of the Ancients' ship, I felt like they were truly in space, even when they showed scenes inside the ship. I haven't felt that since the first episode this season.

My only wish would be for more O'Neill. He was mostly wasted in this episode, but since he's trapped on Atlantis, I have hopes for more in March.

PS. Ah, I see everone posted at the same time. One question. Did Rachel Luttrell as Teyla paraphrase a line she spoke in "A Dog's Breakfast? The one about paths crossing again?

OK, maybe not exactly. :) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EpUJLMnr2NE

Sela
September 22nd, 2006, 07:40 PM
This was the episode that locked me into Atlantis. Where I liked the show before, I now love it. The writing was great, the acting was top notch. It really felt like they were leaving Atlantis for good and this was the season finale. By the midpoint I was in tears and at the end I was cheering when they stole the jumper. Can't wait for March. It's going to be great!

Oh and there was Jack, which always ups the ante. :jack: Although I would have loved to have more of him, he was great in his part. He's really a general now - he's got that air of authority about him. Hopefully there will be more - much more - Jack in March.

the fifth man
September 22nd, 2006, 07:42 PM
I really enjoyed this episode. Personally, I really feel this show has finally come into it's own. It hadn't really before, for me anyways. I'd give it a strong 9/10. It was nice to see Carson play a decent-sized role in this one too.

Descent
September 22nd, 2006, 07:45 PM
I don't get why people are worried about Carson now. Paul's said to be in 17 of the 20 episodes this season. :P

funks
September 22nd, 2006, 07:46 PM
I liked the episode quite a bit, but I didn't believe the "Ancients" were really Ancients. I think its a trick by the Replicators.

That doesn't make sense, if the asurans were in rouse with the fake ancients - why wait six weeks, then send a shp + destroy puddle jumper.

Why not go in there the day after the team leaves then just gate in?

rarocks24
September 22nd, 2006, 07:46 PM
Not anything of any significance, but if anyone was paying attention to the Ancients being beamed down into Atlantis, one of the background characters looked an awful like the Tok'ra babe Anise. ;)

Atlantean Engineer
September 22nd, 2006, 07:48 PM
It was a great episode, it was moving, had good dialogue and a good plot. I'd give a 10/10 because of all the reasons people mentioned above. But since people have already harped on how good it is, I'll put down a few nagging grievances.

1) Jack didn't seem to fit in as much as the old Jack. His comedic timing was just slightly off. I could see it as trying to be the old funny Jack O'Neill, but it didn't fit and the timing seemed off.

2) Don't the Ancients have anything to fight the Asurans? I mean, they have the knowledge to create anti-replicator weapons . . . they should be able to convert some of their stuff to emit the same pulse . . . Maybe they need a McGyver to jerry-rig something. They should probably download the databse into Jack's head. Then he'll really give those replicators a hard time ;)

3) The ending seemed a little off. The music just seemed a little too bright as they went throught the wormhole. They should've just entered the gate and faded to black with some ominous tbc music.

P.S. Something that I loved and haven't seen mentioned: The Ancient control panel right in front of the gate. Just pops up and they take control of the city. That was cool, and Rodney's reaction was priceless. :p

ShadowMaat
September 22nd, 2006, 07:50 PM
I don't get why people are worried about Carson now. Paul's said to be in 17 of the 20 episodes this season. :P
Possible spoilers for upcoming eps and S4...

There's a rumor circulating that a main character will be killed off in an upcoming ep... and more rumors that Jewel Staite has been asked to play "the new doctor" on Atlantis. People are a wee bit nervous about that coincidence.

rarocks24
September 22nd, 2006, 07:55 PM
Possible spoilers for upcoming eps and S4...

There's a rumor circulating that a main character will be killed off in an upcoming ep... and more rumors that Jewel Staite has been asked to play "the new doctor" on Atlantis. People are a wee bit nervous about that coincidence.

:eek:

Ellia is supposed to become a doctor??? :eek: :P

I actually haven't heard anything about that. But it does make sense. I mean, Carson acted all sad and depressed when he was returning to Earth. Acted like he only had a little bit of time left. He was all sad and stuff. :(

AGateFan
September 22nd, 2006, 08:00 PM
I like this ep well enough. Very Classic SG-1 feel to it.

Of course this is Atlantis so shouldnt it have an Atlantis feel?

Also thought it was odd that they set it up so that the big cliffhangly "will they make it" goes to two characters that aren't even regulars (or even regular recurring) characters on the show.

I did like the inclusion of the Genii there at the end, too bad they didnt spend a little more time with that.

Also could the Ancients be any more bland (Although it was nice to see the Destroyer of worlds again).

emotionallydisturbed
September 22nd, 2006, 08:00 PM
Edit: Also, to anyone that saw 'ship, you have to admit that there was quite literally shippy scenes between nearly every single duo (and sometimes trio, and if one includes that last restaurant scene, foursome!). From Carson/Elizabeth, to McShep, to Sheyla, to Sparky, to Spanky, to whatever the hell combination you can think of (Except Weir/Ronon. That one was missing). It was all there. So, really, I don't think any one can wave this episode around as a banner for their preferred ship and the condemnation of any other. Personally, I'm gonna go with the interpretation that there was nothing overtly shippy at all in this episode. It was all about loving, but not the shipping kind.

Word.

Arative
September 22nd, 2006, 08:01 PM
Was nice to see actual ancients. I really don't believe that the Asurans would stage some elaborate hoax to get the humans off Atlantis. If they wanted to take Atlantis I believe they could do it easily. I hope that at least one or two Ancients sticks around fora bit. Of course it was easy to see why they lost. Helia(sp?) was quite arrogant when confronting the Asurans.

Some really good team moments that I enjoyed a lot. Would have been nice to see a little more of what they all did during the 6 weeks on Earth.

I'm sure the Genii will factor in second part.

Can't wait for the Return II.

Edit--Intergalatic gate is quite cool. It almost seemed like when the space station was complete, a person could walk from one galaxy to another, but then if that was the case, I suppose the gates wouldn't form the end.

ShadowMaat
September 22nd, 2006, 08:04 PM
Also thought it was odd that they set it up so that the big cliffhangly "will they make it" goes to two characters that aren't even regulars (or even regular recurring) characters on the show.
Yeah. Usually it's Shep who's presumed dead. Guess they're saving that for the REAL season finale. ;)

coolove
September 22nd, 2006, 08:10 PM
I didn't like the team defying orders but then again Sg1 has done it plenty of times in order to save the universe yadda yadda yadda. Not a bad episode. But I'm hoping there's at least some repercussions for going against orders.

Famous
September 22nd, 2006, 08:11 PM
I was pleasantly suprised that there were actual Ancients in this episode(well, at least it wasn't just Asurans walking up, hey we're Ancients, get inside, then take over like I was kinda expecting). After that, the episode reminded me alot of Politics/Within the Serpent's Grasp, from SG-1. Very well done, nice emotional-type-stuff, and all in all a really good episode. I can't wait for the second half, although I suppose I'm going to have to.

Gate gal
September 22nd, 2006, 08:30 PM
Wow, Atlantis rocked tonight! It was one of the best episodes yet, and I know the finale will be my favorite episode. This was one of the best setup style episodes I have ever seen. It reminded me of SG1 during its glory days. I couldn't help but think of Within the Serpent's Grasp.

All the goodbye scenes were sweet, and I love that Teyla and Ronan stayed together (not just for shippy reasons, Ronan has no one outside of Atlantis). The scenes showing Elizabeth's depression, John's iritation, McKay's lonliness, and Carson's tender care were precious. There were some great character development moments here. No cast member was treated as wall paper, and with a cast of six that is really saying something.

Wow, when the SGA crew started plotting mutiny at the SGC, I was blown away. I didn't think any of them (except John) had it in them! I loved the scene where they stole the puddle jumper and took off through the intergalactic gate (too cool).

Now, my two complaints! Let's not use SG1 guest stars on Atlantis unless they are playing the same characters. Even my eight year old noticed. She shouted, "Look, Mom, its the destroyer of worlds. They shouldn't help her again." More importantly, when you have RDA use him to his full capacity. I don't want to see him in dress blues. I want him in black ops weilding a zat and an uzi. I am going to let that go for now though, because I'm sure he'll get into the action in part two.

Overall, it rocked! SGA is really coming into it's own and I can't wait until March!

Nightspore
September 22nd, 2006, 08:36 PM
I Hated Jack. Sorry, but I did. He's not fun anymore. He comes across (to me, anyway) as stilted and out of place and not really "there." His presence also screamed stuntcasting.


Of course it was stuntcasting. However, I'm always happy to see Jack, even though Colonel O'Neill was more than General O'Neill is.

Seastallion
September 22nd, 2006, 08:39 PM
I loved this episode..!

They TOTALLY had me fooled with the Ancient's return thing. I was so certain that they were really just Asurans. Some have expressed that they still have that concern but tell me this... Why would the Asurans bother with an attack once they'd gotten all but two humans off of Atlantis? They could have taken them incredibly easy at any point if they had any hostile intentions. Then on top of that, why would the Asurans kill their own people? That all being said... What ingrates..! Those Ancients really depressed me. :( "Debt of Gratitude", my A$$. :rolleyes: I get Sheppard's point, but still. *sigh*

What the freak was Mckay's office..!?! :S Maybe it was some kind of large scale Naqahdah Reactor?? That thing was huge..! We know they'd been having problems applying Naqahdah power generation on a larger scale than the downsized version. That could turn out to be quite cool. It might even allow Earth to generate massive amounts of power than it is currently capable of generally doing.

Poor Weir..! :( I felt so bad for her. On the other hand, I really look forward to seeing her in the rare 'kick-butt' form next episode. Argh! I hate this 6 month thing..! Damn you again Sci-Fi..! Gagh..! *cries*

I REALLY hope those rumours about Carson leaving are false..! :o I love that guy..! Like Scotty, you just CAN'T replace that great scottish accent. Why would he be leaving? He's a local Canadian actor right? I'd hope he's not feeling down about his part or something. *look of concern*

Finally... As annoying as those Ancients were, I really HOPE they don't kill off all of them..! That would be really annoying too..! I mean, c'mon! If Sheppard and company can save their butts, surely they'd change their minds and be a lot more grateful? Right? Maybe they'd take Woolsey's original suggestion? Or at least just decide to live among us as many of the original other ancients did 10,000 years ago?

Oh... also. :p If it wasn't in fact Rodney's messing around with the Asuran's base code that enabled them to get around harming the Ancients, that might explain why they could treat those members of the Expedition that had the ATA gene as they did. Maybe they'd already changed it. Or it may have been Mckay's fault. It could be either. '?' Anyways.

Great Episode... but damn those cliffhangers..! I hate those.

Hatusu
September 22nd, 2006, 08:42 PM
Not anything of any significance, but if anyone was paying attention to the Ancients being beamed down into Atlantis, one of the background characters looked an awful like the Tok'ra babe Anise. ;)
The lead Ancient was formerly Linea, the Destroyer on SG1.

Hatusu
September 22nd, 2006, 08:48 PM
...Now, my two complaints! Let's not use SG1 guest stars on Atlantis unless they are playing the same characters. Even my eight year old noticed. She shouted, "Look, Mom, its the destroyer of worlds. They shouldn't help her again." More importantly, when you have RDA use him to his full capacity. I don't want to see him in dress blues. I want him in black ops weilding a zat and an uzi. I am going to let that go for now though, because I'm sure he'll get into the action in part two...

I agree with you, because I had the same reaction as your daughter, :) however that could have easily been solved by making her look different, say with a wig and different make-up. Simple :cool:

FoolishPleasure
September 22nd, 2006, 08:49 PM
Too many rumors flying around about Carson and its depressing. I can think of one or two other useless characters I would love to see sucked dry by the Wraith.

Maybe I'll just switch channels.

Major Gambit
September 22nd, 2006, 08:49 PM
Holy crap awsome! Here are my things


Good
1. Beau Bridges was in it! It was ever revealed that we would be.
2. RDA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
3. LOL! The WoW part was hillarius.
4. Space Bridge was awsome.
5. ZATS!!
6. A lot of original SG1 things that they have been holding back on was introduced.


Bad
1. Only one thing......CLIFFHANGER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!






I wonder what team Shep was on?

Major Gambit
September 22nd, 2006, 08:55 PM
I just wanted to add....



i feel bad for carson's poor turtles :(

lirenel
September 22nd, 2006, 08:55 PM
Everyone has already mentioned all the character development that had me squeeing.

Plus background: Carson is one of seven siblings? That's awesome! And he got turtles because he's allergic to cats.

There were actually two other things I noticed that were kinda arbitrary but interesting. And they have to do with clothes.

One: Sheppard looks really good in green. That just stunned me, seeing him in green and not black.

Two: When McKay's on the phone with Sheppard, I noticed something interesting about his long-sleeved undershirt. One sleeve was green and the other was blue.

Is it weird that I paid so much attention to that? I usually don't.

EDIT: Also, when Linea...er, head Ancient was talking to Jack and Woolsey, I could swear she sounded like Aragorn's inspiring speech in Return of the King: "The day may come....but it is not this day" kind of thing. I threw me for a bit.

ChevronSeven
September 22nd, 2006, 09:03 PM
Of course it was stuntcasting. However, I'm always happy to see Jack, even though Colonel O'Neill was more than General O'Neill is.

Well it seems like the wardrobe department can't figure it out either. He was in the first scenes wearing his uniform...with his two stars. Cut to the report where Jack's in the BDUs and....he's got one star!! Apparently no one caught that mistake.

Dezdmona
September 22nd, 2006, 09:04 PM
This probably isn't the place to ask, but I'd sure like a screencap of Ronan in his "browncoat" at the end of the epi.

"Lets Be Bad Guys" :ronananime01:

Mitchell82
September 22nd, 2006, 09:04 PM
I absoultly loved this episode and to me proves why I have loved Atlantis from the begining. I have loved all three mid season cliffhangers so far and this one definatly takes the cake. This was a great ep great to see Jack back in his prime, and really great to see real Ancients actually in Atlantis again. I loved every second and screamed when i saw "To be continued" This was a great ep and reafirms why I love this show. I can't think of a single ep i hate but this is definalty a 10/10 and on my top 5 list.

2ndgenerationalteran
September 22nd, 2006, 09:06 PM
oh that is sweet our IGB is operational

Mitchell82
September 22nd, 2006, 09:07 PM
Well it seems like the wardrobe department can't figure it out either. He was in the first scenes wearing his uniform...with his two stars. Cut to the report where Jack's in the BDUs and....he's got one star!! Apparently no one caught that mistake.
Sometimes minor mistakes happen that no one catches, remeber Major Kawalsky wearing Captain insignia in the Premeire.

grasshopper
September 22nd, 2006, 09:07 PM
I really enjoyed this episode.
Once again the family vibe was strong. The Ronon hug with Sheppard; the head-butt with Teyla were all great at showing John’s sense of family with his teammates. I certainly don’t ship them (go team Sparky), but I though the scenes were well done, and needed.
I loved the dinner scene with all of them, and Elizabeth calling John “Cheeky” was a highlight.
The turtle’s thing was hysterical!

My only complaint was giving Weir a gun. I have always liked the fact that she didn’t carry a gun. I understanding going into a city overflowing with replicators might not be the best place to try your hand at negotiating, but I still do not like it.
((And no I am not anti-gun, just anti-Weir with a gun.))

A.L.
September 22nd, 2006, 09:11 PM
Overall, I loved this epi. I thought it was a great midseason cliffie. Could be as good as The Storm, and slightly or moreso better than The Lost Boys. It's close.

Lots of family vibes going on. You see how much these people have come to mean to each other outside the life and death moments. I also loved that they kept referring to Atlantis as home. After all this, it certainly would be.

Because I am who I am, I must comment on the ship: I definitely saw Sparky but I could just be so used to seeing it everywhere with these two that it's become second nature. I saw some possible Sheyla moments but nothing I can't live with. Especially the head touch thing. I can see it shippy or I can see it friendly seeing as how it seemed to pull us back to Rising when she did it the first time, signifying the beginning of a deep friendship with trust. But then I spin it the way I want to I suppose. :D

I loved that Elizabeth went with them. Realistically she probably should have stayed behind as she's not so much a fighter as the rest. But with how affected she was by leaving, I don't think they could have kept her away if they wanted to. As to the gun she had that someone mentioned, was it a P-90 or one of those replicator destroyer guns? If it's the latter, I see no conflict in her carrying one as well.

Again, I loved this epi. I can't wait for the conclusion and DANG IT ALL that we have to wait 6 months! I hearby put in my vote for an early return if at all possible. I mean it'll be cool to end season 3 and go almost directly into season 4 but I don't think that's a good enough trade off for a six month hiatus. I much prefer two 3 months than one 6 month. Just my opinion.

Begin the countdown now. :D

AL

2ndgenerationalteran
September 22nd, 2006, 09:17 PM
damn you get all amped up for an ancient but once you get them home they screw you over. well its their city but it was very abrupt with no warning in taking back the city

Mitchell82
September 22nd, 2006, 09:17 PM
Overall, I loved this epi. I thought it was a great midseason cliffie. Could be as good as The Storm, and slightly or moreso better than The Lost Boys. It's close.

Lots of family vibes going on. You see how much these people have come to mean to each other outside the life and death moments. I also loved that they kept referring to Atlantis as home. After all this, it certainly would be.

Because I am who I am, I must comment on the ship: I definitely saw Sparky but I could just be so used to seeing it everywhere with these two that it's become second nature. I saw some possible Sheyla moments but nothing I can't live with. Especially the head touch thing. I can see it shippy or I can see it friendly seeing as how it seemed to pull us back to Rising when she did it the first time, signifying the beginning of a deep friendship with trust. But then I spin it the way I want to I suppose. :D

I loved that Elizabeth went with them. Realistically she probably should have stayed behind as she's not so much a fighter as the rest. But with how affected she was by leaving, I don't think they could have kept her away if they wanted to. As to the gun she had that someone mentioned, was it a P-90 or one of those replicator destroyer guns? If it's the latter, I see no conflict in her carrying one as well.

Again, I loved this epi. I can't wait for the conclusion and DANG IT ALL that we have to wait 6 months! I hearby put in my vote for an early return if at all possible. I mean it'll be cool to end season 3 and go almost directly into season 4 but I don't think that's a good enough trade off for a six month hiatus. I much prefer two 3 months than one 6 month. Just my opinion.

Begin the countdown now. :D

AL
I agree compleatly. This was a great episode, as it did everything right. But the six month hiatus will suck.

2ndgenerationalteran
September 22nd, 2006, 09:26 PM
this is really sad it feels like atlantis is ending because of all the good byes

suse
September 22nd, 2006, 09:42 PM
Am I the only one who was saying "Oh, this reminds me of Within The Serpent's Grasp" there at the end?

T'was better than the not horrific but <yawn>able SG-1 cliffhanger.

Suse

LoneStar1836
September 22nd, 2006, 10:12 PM
Well that was a letdown. Too much talk, not enough action for a mid season hanger. Plus I didn’t care all that much for the main story. Seemed a little disjointed. We discover those arrogant Ancients (which quite possible were replicators, imo) and then all of a sudden we’re kicked out of Atlantis. Wtf?

I hope the replicators knock off all those snotty, ungrateful Ancients if they are actually Ancients. I’m thinking there is a good possibility that they are Replicators. (Did no one even think to check…) Possibly a group that learned the Ancients packed up and headed to Earth so they decided to follow. I don’t know. Just a guess. Anyway if they are Ancients, I could never really stand that race, and I hated them after SG-1’s Threads. I hope the Replicators and Ori kick their collective you know what.

RDA seemed a bit wasted in this episode. Didn’t really care for his acting or lines in this one. :S Hopefully he’ll have more to do in the action sense in the second part.

All the little character moments were nice and the best part of the episode, but I got to say I was more entertained by SG-1’s episode tonight than I was SGA’s.

I really wasn’t paying attention to all the techno babble regarding the whole new gate system between Pegasus and Milky Way so I have a question. Once the PJ gets to the midway station, how does it dial the gate to continue on its journey if there is no point of origin since this is in a void between galaxies? I’m guessing the answer involves McKay and some sort of convenient by-pass program he has come up with to solve the problem of needing a point of origin or more specifically an actual planet….that or they somehow reconfigure the point of origin for the gate. Obviously I missed something in all that talking so does anyone remember the answer or was it even explained?

Orion's Star
September 22nd, 2006, 10:12 PM
This was a fairly good episode but I found it hard to take it seriously considering the fact that the odds of John being punished yet again for disobeying orders (this is his, what, second or third time now?), hurting fellow soldiers (which should get him busted no matter what), and potentially putting the Earth at risk, kind of limited the impact of the story.

I mean, where is the credibility and realism of the writers when a Lt. Colonel is going around, flippantly disobeying direct orders, attacking soliders under his command, and nothing is going to happen to him unless there is a major shakeup of the cast and story dynamic starting with the new episodes. And considering Stargate's history with that kind of stuff, it doesn't seem likely.

Other than that, this was one of the better episodes this season, even if it was mostly set-up. Liked Caldwell, liked the use of Beckett (good to see him be a major part of the storyline), and well, the less there is said of Weir the better.

Kliggins
September 22nd, 2006, 10:21 PM
Well it seems like the wardrobe department can't figure it out either. He was in the first scenes wearing his uniform...with his two stars. Cut to the report where Jack's in the BDUs and....he's got one star!! Apparently no one caught that mistake.

Hehehe. Probably used his costume from season eight when he was a one-star general. I don't think he has been back in the green BDUs since he got his second star. :)

Steven_the_Atlantean
September 22nd, 2006, 10:28 PM
I haven’t watch it, and it will be a while till I do, but I am just curious now that the “Ancients” took over Atlantis, what power modules are they using, Earth Naqua generators or ZPMS?????

Kliggins
September 22nd, 2006, 10:33 PM
I liked the episode very much. I thought it was very poignant when they left Atlantis, how disjointed they all felt away from the city, and will just make the return better. I willl agree some of the technobabble was starting to make my eyes glaze over, but I am still going to watch the rerun.

Of course, I would have liked more RDA and I think, less familiarity around the Atlantis crew might have had an affect on his performance, but I have high hopes for the second part.

FoolishPleasure
September 22nd, 2006, 10:35 PM
I haven’t watch it, and it will be a while till I do, but I am just curious now that the “Ancients” took over Atlantis, what power modules are they using, Earth Naqua generators or ZPMS?????
I didn't hear it mentioned. Magic, I guess. But the Replicators had the ability to manufacture ZPMs. ;)

I liked the gate system, and I didn't think I would. What I didn't like was Sheppard's attitude at SGC and with his new team. Landry should have put him in his place, and at least make him get a shave and a hair cut. :)

Irish Eyes
September 22nd, 2006, 10:39 PM
What the freak was Mckay's office..!?! :S Maybe it was some kind of large scale Naqahdah Reactor?? That thing was huge..! We know they'd been having problems applying Naqahdah power generation on a larger scale than the downsized version. That could turn out to be quite cool. It might even allow Earth to generate massive amounts of power than it is currently capable of generally doing.

This scene made me laugh. The reactor was so huge, it was a good symbol for Rodney's opinion of himself.;)

I really enjoyed the episode. I know there wasn't a lot of action, but I'm all about the character moments so that was fine by me. The second part will probably be packed with action so when we can finally see them back to back, I think it will be very satisfying.

A lot of the good has been mentioned. The one thing I would add is when Rodney was going to the gate and he said bye to Teyla. He actually sounded sad. Rodney used to get on my nerves, but he has grown on me a lot.

My nitpick would be I wanted more of RDA. Hopefully, that will happen in the conclusion.

Oh, and dibs on Elizabeth's quarters. I think my apartment would fit in there!:)

Excali5033
September 22nd, 2006, 10:41 PM
:\ Siler gets the short end of the stick once again. There's just no love for us AF engineers.

Oreo
September 22nd, 2006, 10:50 PM
I think that the episode should have been a three parter and the true season finale. I would be a good build up to the next season and them getting back to take back Atlantis.

SciFiGeek
September 22nd, 2006, 10:59 PM
Best episode of Atlantis I've seen in a looong time. Honestly, this episode was so good (and so surprisingly good at that) that it's just about restored my faith in Atlantis. I am actually extraordinarily excited to see the second half to this. This was the best season opener/end of the show...quite possibly ever.

Granted, maybe I just went into it with low expectations (I wasn't too thrilled with anything to do involving the Replicator Ancients, or even people who may or may not actually be Ancients...?) but as the episode progressed, I found myself having a surprising amount of fun with it. I was pleasantly surprised and intrigued by the Samantha Mulder/Lenea/Ancient commander, and a little disappointed to see she had so little screentime.

One of the best things about the episode: there were a lot of true lol moments, that I actually did just that. Not the least of which being the Sheppard/McKay phone conversation (I love that they keep in touch! And that they get together for dinner!); when everyone's cellphones' but Carson's rang ("I didn't bring my bloody cellphone! What's going on??"); when we realize that Carson wasn't actually called to the SGC like the others but tagged along anyway; Sheppard cutting off Landry's message ("Now I at least don't know what he was going to do to me"); heck, I even got out a kick out of the delivery of Sheppard's "Pull up, honk the horn, see if we can get them to roll down the window."

Another reason I was so pleasantly surprised was because, not long into the episode, what with them packing everything up and actually leaving, it seemed too surreal, and I was more than half-convinced that it was all going to be a fabricated reality for the members of Sheppard's team created by the Ancient Replicators. Only they've used that trick before, and in retrospect, that probably would've felt like somewhat of a copout. I mean, they actually did let that all happen, and we got to see the longterm consequences... And the cliffhanger was a great cap onto the episode, because it wasn't so much about, I dunno, dire situation--how are we going to resolve this? but rather, set-up for the next move...keep watching to see it play out.

Also, all the sneaking around and going behind Landry's back and disobeying orders to steal the Puddle Jumper (was that the Time one from Moebius?) was a lot of fun, and more than any reminded me of some of the really good old times with SG1--it's what made the episode so good was not only did it have great set-up, but it was fun. And I enjoyed the fact that all the SGC characters that didn't get to be in The Quest got to show up here--Landry, Walter, Dr. Lee--hee, they even shot Siler! And while I enjoyed seeing Jack again (and am dying to see him in his second SG1 episode this season) it was nice to see him more as a background character, not really stealing the spotlight, but letting the charm of the main characters carry the episode.

Dang it, Atlantis, I haven't enjoyed you this much in such a long time. Now don't let me down! :P

coolove
September 22nd, 2006, 10:59 PM
I think the episode was just a waste of RDA. I'd prefer to see him on Sg1. The character bits were nice. I liked the moment between Ronan and Sheppard. There were a lot of things that bugged me about this episode but such as how huge Weir's quarters were. It was ridiculously large. It must have doubled as something else as well. What the hell does she do with that space? I guess I more fascinated with that then merely bugged.

KezatheAscended
September 22nd, 2006, 11:00 PM
FANTASTIC!!!

I'm going to go insane over the next 6 months and will probably keep myself drowning in fanfic until then. There is going to be an overload until part 2.

OMG! I'm soooo veryveryvery glad it ened up begin the REAL ancients. I thought it was going to be the replecator "Ancients". :replicatoranime01:

Almost cried when Carson almost cried. I get so mad on hom easily my emtions come thru books and movies and shows and all that stuff.

It was very much like a family being separated. But of everyone I think I felt most for Ronon and Teyla. They and her people literally got thrown into the cold. After all these generations of thier peoples hoping for the Ancestors return, it's nothing like what they imagined. I would hate them. I do hate them.

I loved the scene of Ronon and Teyla in John's room. Very fam-sibling like. Adorable and heart wrenching. And the one with John and Elizabeth. "I'm only 1/4 thru War and Peace." :lol: And loved the Princess Bride quote. I love that movie. :sheppardanime32:

Loved them working out the plan to go against orders...knew they were going to do something...loved them getting the calls at the same time at dinner.

If it was me, I would have said something back to the General at the end while they were at the mid point. Something like..."With all do respect Sir...Go to Hell..." and then turn off the connection. He might have gotten in deeper trouble with the SGC, but that's just me.

Pissed with Ladon and that comment to Ronon. OOOO! I wanted to reach thru the screen and just punch him. :teyla15: :ronananime01: But I likeed the idea of bringing the Genii in. Ronon is absolutely a fish out of water with Teyla's people. Figured he would just rejoin the rest of the survivors of Sateda...but it's a good thing he didn't.

Hated the ending...well, no, it was good. But you know what I mean. I am definitly going to go crazy!!!!!

Scyld
September 22nd, 2006, 11:31 PM
I didn't like the team defying orders but then again Sg1 has done it plenty of times in order to save the universe yadda yadda yadda. Not a bad episode. But I'm hoping there's at least some repercussions for going against orders.

This is the Stargate universe. You don't get reprimanded for going against orders. You get promoted.

Schrodinger82
September 23rd, 2006, 12:01 AM
What I find amusing is how Lee bought Weir's story that she was a WoW fanatic. The lady had been in an entirely different galaxy for three years, Lee. How in the world is she supposed to log on?

Anyway, this was a great cliff hanger, because it wasn't that "OMG, helpless situation, how will they survive?" In this episode, they take a far more assertive approach, and that's a good thing.

Amakusa
September 23rd, 2006, 12:36 AM
What I find amusing is how Lee bought Weir's story that she was a WoW fanatic. The lady had been in an entirely different galaxy for three years, Lee. How in the world is she supposed to log on?


The thing that got me was most of the World of Warcraft stuff was right, except you can't get to Level 75 in the expansion.

And as of the airing of the episode, the expansion isn't in beta yet.

LadyBozi
September 23rd, 2006, 12:43 AM
Like the episode a lot! =] Ronon/Sheps hug..soo freaking CUTE!! XD Awww... Carson and his turtles! hehe

Why didn't Ronon go back to the Satedans? I mean... he has Solen right? lol..
Maybe he wanted to stay with Teyla *wink* hehe Love the fact that he was acting like a lil CO-Leader to the Athosians.

Overall.. it was a pretty good episode.
I felt really bad for Lizzie.. she was depressed.. =P And Shep..and "his team" lol.

I agree... Not a lot of action..but I think thats because The Return 2...will be FUll of it. Kinda like Part one eplained it... Part Two is *kick ass* lol.

ooh..and DR. Lee.. lmao... thats all. =]

silence
September 23rd, 2006, 12:54 AM
good ep, acctually very good.

<rant>
nice to have ZPM back in Atlantis (seems like Ancients put at least one there).
i wonder how BIG was that Asuran ship? another flying city or some sort of major battleship? (do we keep it after we get rid of them? - since we obviously do, there would no show if we don't ;) ).... damn waiting.... i hate it....

i hope Canada or Sky airs whole season like last year... 6 damn months....
and i hope that at least some Ancients survived... i am sick of SGA trend to kill everything cool left by Ancients (Aurora AND it's crew, Orion, dunno what happens to Tria (this ep Aurora class ship), defence sattelites in Siege, Arcturus Project.... the list is too damn long).

I guess if Ancients were all killed, they prolly ascended, so they are still around... what a cop-out...
</rant>

after all the ranting, i'll just repeat i loved this ep, but i CAN'T wait 6 months... meh.. one of worst cliffhangers ever...

Candy
September 23rd, 2006, 01:43 AM
Beckett and his wee little turtles. ohhhhhhh! :( :)

FallenAngelII
September 23rd, 2006, 01:53 AM
There was nothing wrong with the episode. In fact, it was a good episode. The only problem is that it's not good enough for a mid-season finale (especially for one that the American viewers have to wait 6 months to see the continuation of!).

Let's just hope that all of the Ancients weren't killed off. That would be so shoddy and... well... all I'm saying is, it would be stupid...

Crow T. Robot
September 23rd, 2006, 02:53 AM
Of course, I would have liked more RDA and I think, less familiarity around the Atlantis crew might have had an affect on his performance, but I have high hopes for the second part.

Could be. RDA mentions in his Star Log magazine mentions he felt a little bit like a fish out of water there at the beginning. Rick also mentions in the interview how he went to Brad to make very sure that the SGC/SGA crew losing a general could believable. That might be part of the reason why Jack was so played down in this episode setting stuff up for part 2.

I think they made things in just enough chaotic disorder and put the main characters off balance just enough to pull it off.

Easter Lily
September 23rd, 2006, 03:29 AM
A nice, lowkey episode with many lovely "family" moments. Very interesting to me that Weir was having the most difficulty re-adjusting to life after Atlantis.

It's obviously a set-up for the big bang that is to come. While it seemed familiar in some ways, there were a couple of unpredictable elements.

I liked seeing the Genii in it albeit for a brief moment which leaves me wondering what part they will be playing in Part 2.

Now, I'm just waiting for the Wraith to show up before bursting into song... "Hail, hail... the gang's all here..."
:D

Linzi
September 23rd, 2006, 03:33 AM
I absolutely loved this, and I have to say, from the spoilers I read I was worried. How wrong was I - AGAIN?
This was superb, so much better than TLB last season and Allies.
The team interaction and moments were terrific, and when Ronon and Teyla were in Sheppard's quarters, and they were saying goodbye I just loved it!
Ronon's hug was terrific, and really surprised me!
When Sheppard and Teyla did the Athosian head forming thing I felt quite teary, I see such friendship there and the emotions displayed by both Joe and Rachel were wonderful. It was such a poignant moment and harkened back to Rising, (I'm an ardent non-shipper, but I love the friendship angle here). It's so nice to see the caring side of the team displayed on occasion.
I loved Sheppard having his own SG team, even if he missed Rodney,awwww!That was so cool for me to see.
I loved the scene where Sheppard was on the phone to Rodney, that was so sweet, and Sheppard playing with airplanes, lol! On a completely shallow note...I loved seeing Sheppard in the green uniform - (Can't believe I'm shallow enough to admit that here!)
Beckett and the turtles was funny - poor wee buggers!!!!
I really enjoyed the ending. I don't care that Sheppard disobeyed a direct order. So damn what? He's saving his home and hopefully O'Neill and Woolsey. I can live with that. I like maverick Sheppard anyway - so bring it on, I say. Nuke Atlantis? Shame on Landry, or his bosses should I say!
McKay was as entertaining as ever, and how sad is it that he misses everyone?
I was surprised at Weir being all depressed and down. I didn't think she'd act like that, so that surprised me a little, but that's not a bad thing.
I liked the dinner scene at the restaurant, and then the phones all going off too!
I liked RDA here. He seemed off in TRW, but I was glad to see him here. Robert Picardo too. I was worried they'd dominate, but they were used wisely.
I look forward to the conclusion, but shake my head in disbelief that it's a six month potential wait. Shame on SciFi.
Excellent episode, with many bits I really took delight in. Well done to the SGA cast, Martin Gero and Martin Wood - my favourite director. The first half of season 3 has been wonderful, a real pleasure to watch.

kirmit
September 23rd, 2006, 04:50 AM
Overall a solid episode, but no means great and somewhat annoying.

I liked the intergalactic bridge, thought that was good and would like to see more of it in the future. I actually burst out laughing at the dinner scene when everybodies phones rang except carson's. That was pretty much all I liked about it.

I had BIG problems with the Atlantis team in this episode, I didn't like how they were able to outsmart everyone at the sgc, be sure if carter and the rest of sg-1 were there they're plan wouldn't of succeeded. The other thing was I could get past how completely selfish the Atlantis team were in this episode. Yes Atlantis has become a new home to them but the fact the wouldn't help blown up the city was just plain annoying, they're risking the replicators getting to the milkyway for what? For the fact they're selfish and refused to lose their new home in the process risking billions of life.

I also don't like this Atlantis vs SGC story the writers have put into place, it seems whenever they meet they disagree or disobey orders from one another, they're supposed to be on the same side.

Stevo
September 23rd, 2006, 04:58 AM
great episode!! my only question for the moment is what happened to dr weirs house? she had one in real world...

ShadowMaat
September 23rd, 2006, 05:16 AM
The thing that got me was most of the World of Warcraft stuff was right, except you can't get to Level 75 in the expansion.
Maybe he was hoping Elizabeth wouldn't know that. ;) Wouldn't be the first time a guy has exagerrated something about himself while trying to impress a girl. :P

As for the "If SG-1 had been there they'd never have gotten away with their mad plan" comment... Ya know, it might have been more interesting if they'd run across someone from SG-1- Sam, for example- who had immediately figured out what they were doing and dropped hints that she approved but had to report them anyway while leaving herself open to getting zatted and thus giving her an alibi and letting them continue on their way. *shrug* It'd just be a sort of "passing of the torch" thing and it'd show a nice bond between SG-1 and AR-1. Another good "family" moment.

shockwave
September 23rd, 2006, 05:38 AM
cool episode
I see they recycled Lt Fisher from the fourth horseman into a replicator.

what will happen to these ancients, are they dead now?

Argosy
September 23rd, 2006, 06:06 AM
I really wasn’t paying attention to all the techno babble regarding the whole new gate system between Pegasus and Milky Way so I have a question. Once the PJ gets to the midway station, how does it dial the gate to continue on its journey if there is no point of origin since this is in a void between galaxies? I’m guessing the answer involves McKay and some sort of convenient by-pass program he has come up with to solve the problem of needing a point of origin or more specifically an actual planet….that or they somehow reconfigure the point of origin for the gate. Obviously I missed something in all that talking so does anyone remember the answer or was it even explained?


No you didn’t miss any thing...they just did not give much of a technical explanation.

It’s possible that the mid way station is located at a Lagrange point between Pegasus and the Milkyway, & McKay’s macro just tricks the gate network(s) into thinking that the station is in orbit of a planetary body rather than a libration point between the galaxies.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lagrange_point

9.999/10 stars.

I really injoyed this episode, but felt like some thing was a little off.

Every one has pretty much covered all of the possitive and negative aspects of the episode, so there is very little for me to add and I will reserve finall judgement until I see the second part. As it stands it has the potential to match/surpass the first mid-season cliffhanger, but we shall see.

P.s. I believe that rather large reactor behind Rodney was infact him pursuing his dream of selfsustaining fusion. Just my $0.02.

MarshAngel
September 23rd, 2006, 06:17 AM
I did like the episode but it really felt like setup to me so I'm witholding full judgement until it wraps up next year. I definitely got a SG-1 Serpent's Lair feel. What I'm hoping is that the comparisons end there and that they all have to pay in one way or another for their defiance because I love tension and drama. I don't like the easily resolved whitewashing they've done in the past.

I think I would have liked this episode better if I hadn't watched Ghost Whisperer earlier and cried through it and was so sad. The one thing that really stood out for me about the whole thing is how much I love Carson. He's such a sweetheart. I even found Rodney sufficiently and appropriately subdued in this episode. I'm getting closer and closer to wanting to jump Ronon.

I didn't like Weir but I'm pretty sure I'm just being unfair because I've gotten to the point where I often want to smack her upside the head. Objectively, it was nice to see her reaction, but I still wanted to slap her and say "Snap out of it!"

I definitely suspect those Ancients of being replicators but I somewhat hope they arent. It would be a nice closure to any concept I originally had they were ever nice people with any degree of sense.

Sela
September 23rd, 2006, 06:37 AM
Question: Is Ford dead?

Maybe I missed it somewhere along the way but I didn't think Ford had been killed. I ask because it bothered me that they left there without a mention of Ford and I thought we didn't leave our people behind.

I'm just sayin'....

Elinor
September 23rd, 2006, 06:46 AM
Very enjoyable episode...I thought it was great!

Loved the different emotions it brought out all the way through. There were laugh out loud moments...'Awww, are they really going to have to leave and split up?' moments and....'Go Team' moments!! All well acted out by everybody involved!

Now we have the wait for part 2....and I'm really gonna worry about Carson's turtles!!

http://www.websmileys.com/sm/happy/963.gif

siXbrownSnakes2
September 23rd, 2006, 07:00 AM
After watching the episode again, there are quite a few things that the episode makes me look forward to in part 2:

a) How their defiance of orders will be dealt with. I'm guessing O'Neill will cut them all some slack as he and his team have done what Sheppard did before. Serpents Lair, for example. I'm sort of wondering if Landry's reaction will put this bit of tension between the expedition and earth. I hope it turns out that way.

b) Ancients surviving. Either the spoilers were totally wrong, or it's in part two--and even Malozzi said it himself. "Today, we had a preliminary discussion on the Atlantis mid-season two-parter which promises some exploration". I saw no exploration, except for a pedestal popping out in front of the gate. Maybe it's in the second part? Was the exploration referring to the Daedalus exploring space? Who knows. I'll hope that a few of the ancients survived (though they probably didn't) and that there's this little struggle between who the city actually belongs to.

c) I really hope the episode is bigger than "Kill all the replicators and rescue O'Neill and Woolsey." It needs to be bigger in proportion than that, IMO. However I'm sure whatever way it plays out it will be one great episode!

Can't wait.

prion
September 23rd, 2006, 07:02 AM
I don't get why people are worried about Carson now. Paul's said to be in 17 of the 20 episodes this season. :P

Because season 3 is nearly done (filming the last ones now). And TPTB at stargate are NOTORIOUS for killing off character (hmm, Daniel - well the actor wanted to leave, but they didn't have to kill the character ; Janet - the actor did NOT want to leave).

Killing off one character simply to replace them the same kind of character is pretty lame. ALthough maybe Skiffy wants to bring in FIREFLY fans. God knows, Scifi's mentality is skewed (can we saw ECW?)

ShadowMaat
September 23rd, 2006, 07:05 AM
Although maybe Skiffy wants to bring in FIREFLY fans. God knows, Scifi's mentality is skewed (can we saw ECW?)
Maybe we should be grateful we're getting (or may be getting) someone from Firefly instead of someone from ECW. :D

prion
September 23rd, 2006, 07:06 AM
great episode!! my only question for the moment is what happened to dr weirs house? she had one in real world...

That was in DC, and I think it was her mother's house.

She had a place in Colorado Springs, we assume, in this epsiode becuase she wanted to be near the gate.

prion
September 23rd, 2006, 07:07 AM
Maybe we should be grateful we're getting (or may be getting) someone from Firefly instead of someone from ECW. :D

Oh man, I need a dead trout to smack you! Don't suggest that! They're stupid enough to think Oh wait, let's make the next groupof aliens big muscle bound stupid guys! ;) ;) Shudder.....

SierraGulf1
September 23rd, 2006, 07:12 AM
Because season 3 is nearly done (filming the last ones now). And TPTB at stargate are NOTORIOUS for killing off character (hmm, Daniel - well the actor wanted to leave, but they didn't have to kill the character ; Janet - the actor did NOT want to leave).

Killing off one character simply to replace them the same kind of character is pretty lame. ALthough maybe Skiffy wants to bring in FIREFLY fans. God knows, Scifi's mentality is skewed (can we saw ECW?)

Killing off Carson Beckett would probably be one of the most boneheaded moves the writers could possibly make on either show in the past ten years. I have always enjoyed both shows even when the writers did some questionable things, but if Beckett's gone from Atlantis I'm not sure I'd be able to bear it.

Off course, it's only a speculated possibility based on rumors, so... No need to jump to conclusions.

BubblingOverWithIdeas
September 23rd, 2006, 07:29 AM
Also could the Ancients be any more bland (Although it was nice to see the Destroyer of worlds again).

Bland? Aside from Helia we didn't hear any of them.

BubblingOverWithIdeas
September 23rd, 2006, 07:43 AM
What I find amusing is how Lee bought Weir's story that she was a WoW fanatic. The lady had been in an entirely different galaxy for three years, Lee. How in the world is she supposed to log on?

And he said that he was level 75, which is impossible, and he accepted it when Weir said her Race was Mage, which is a Class. Race is like Human, Troll, Night Elf etc.

CalmStorm
September 23rd, 2006, 07:48 AM
I loved this episode.

It was very intresting to watch the team being "evicted" from the city and their reactions to it. What would their lives be like? Atlantis was the best thing to happen to each of them...Weir, Sheppard, McKay, Carson, Teyla and Ronon. It is their home and they are family.

I love the way the goodbyes were handled. Loved that Teyla and Ronon were not excluded from the episode after they were in the Athosian settlement. Loved that we got to see their sitution and the affect the eviction and loss of the ones from Earth affected them. Great that they actually brought Ladon in to have the discussion with them. Atlantis was their hope for fighting the wraith and it actually looked promising for them for the first time in their lives. They were fighting a battle they truely believed they had a chance at winning this time. Now, with the eviction, and the attitude of the ancients, that rug was pulled completey out from under their feet. I'm glad that we got to see their reactions.

Loved seeing Shep commanding an SG team, and not really liking his team because it was not really his team and they honestly did not seem nearly as great as what he had before. To me, it's seems clear that he does not appreciate military authority at all....or at the very least is extremely uncomfortable around it. I think he carriers over what they must have done with him after his black mark. He doesn't seem trusting of them at all. All of his conversations with Landry, and even with Jack, seemed to be rather short and forced. It was like he was stepping completely into military persona and keeping it to the "Yes Sir, No Sir, Sir". I think he gets along great with those that have put faith in him such as Weir and even Caldwell. He smarts off to him and they do have their little tiffs, however, I think Caldwell recognizes his ability and Shep knows that. However, I do want to be clear that it's only my perception, that might not be the way it actually is.

Loved Carson and the turtle comments. Loved that he stopped by to see Weir and would not take no for an answer for dinner with the gang. Loved the impact the situation had on Weir. Quite honestly, I don't see anything coming even remotely close to comparing with what she had on Atlantis. I can understand her withdrawl and depression.

Loved that as a team, they disobeyed orders and were on their way back to recapture their home.

I think the back part of this season so far has been great and I'm looking forward to the continuation...although it is over 6 freaking months away...what the h*** is that.

aaobuttons
September 23rd, 2006, 08:15 AM
I didn't hear it mentioned. Magic, I guess. But the Replicators had the ability to manufacture ZPMs. ;)

I liked the gate system, and I didn't think I would. What I didn't like was Sheppard's attitude at SGC and with his new team. Landry should have put him in his place, and at least make him get a shave and a hair cut. :)


The Ancients MUST have had a working ZPM to connect with the Earth gate cause Shep et all went through the gate to earth, if they were going through to the midpoint they would have been spaced. :D


Question: Is Ford dead?

Maybe I missed it somewhere along the way but I didn't think Ford had been killed. I ask because it bothered me that they left there without a mention of Ford and I thought we didn't leave our people behind.

I'm just sayin'....

They don't know if he's dead or not. The hive ship blew up and he was probably on it, but they don't know for sure. They didn't intend to leave the Pegasus Galaxy forever, it's not like he couldn't show up one day on Atlantis and say "hey, let me use your gate to dial home okay?"


And he said that he was level 75, which is impossible, and he accepted it when Weir said her Race was Mage, which is a Class. Race is like Human, Troll, Night Elf etc.

I think probably his only thought was that she was a hot chick who was talking too him... he probably wasn't thinking too clearly. And I don't know anything about WoW, so I believed the 75... and who's to say that top secret government scientist types don't have the inns on beta beta packs or codes that let them go higher than L70? :D

gate traveler
September 23rd, 2006, 08:18 AM
This was a really awesome episode. My only complaint would be all of the things that we didn't get to see. We didn't get a look at the ancient warship, the replicator ship, or any of the attack on the city. I'll give the writers the benefit of the doubt and assume that this was to save money for an amazing 2nd part that will blow our minds.

ShadowMaat
September 23rd, 2006, 08:20 AM
The Ancients MUST have had a working ZPM to connect with the Earth gate cause Shep et all went through the gate to earth, if they were going through to the midpoint they would have been spaced. :D
Shep said something about how the Ancients had a ZPM and that most of the expedition would be leaving through the gate directly back to Earth.

As for Lee, I still say he was puffing himself up and trying to make himself seem more important/bigger/better/more skilled/whatever than he actually was in regards to WoW. Gotta impress the hot chick. ;)

Ltcolshepjumper
September 23rd, 2006, 08:20 AM
The ancients had a working ZPM, and Dr. Lee was definitely more focused on Dr. Weir than the conversation. Does it look like TH has seriously thinned out to anyone?

Koshi700
September 23rd, 2006, 08:22 AM
I haven't gotten to see the ep yet. **pout!** And I can't wait until my best freind mails me the tape. **waits impatiently** :mckayanime08:

But I have a quick question. I noticed some talk about the "big rumor". About Carson being killed off. Has anybody seen this rumor in any sort of offical capacity? Or has it all just been word of mouth from fans?

Thanks bunches. :)

Ltcolshepjumper
September 23rd, 2006, 08:23 AM
Its been word of mouth. No official confirmation yet. I hope no one dies. And I hope no one from SG1 comes over either.

aaobuttons
September 23rd, 2006, 08:35 AM
This was an amazing episode. It moved so fast, with so much story, but it didn't feel rushed, just full, which is so great and so rare in an episode.

Loved:
All the personal moments.
Shep being nervous about going through all those gates.
Rodney defending Elizabeth about her exclusion from the talks.
Ronon bear hug.
Shep and Teyla's head touching in farewell.
Shep and Rodney talking on the phone, Shep playing with planes and Rodney missing everyone.
Elizabeth depressed and Carson trying to pull her out of it.
The four of them having dinner together (loved all the phones going off)
Carson not being invited to the meeting but still wanting to be involved.
All four of them going to save their HOME-- and them thinking of it as such.
Wee Baby Turtles!!! -- Carson is so cute when he says Wee Baby anything... :D
Laden going and asking Teyla and Ronon for help -- The fact that the Genii weren't giving up on fighting the wraith.

Didn't love:
Oneill-- why was he there? He looked out of place and uncomfortable and didn't do anything.


Great episode, it gets a 10 from me!!!

rarocks24
September 23rd, 2006, 08:54 AM
The Ancients seemed a bit arrogant in this episode. Helia I suspect won't show up again. On the other hand,

A few Ancients may have survived. One of the actors that played the Ancients is supposed to come about again in Echos.

keshou
September 23rd, 2006, 08:55 AM
I really loved this episode (with a few minor quibbles.) It was mostly setup for the action to come in Part II, but there was lots to enjoy in this one for me.

The "team as family" has come into its own in S10 and I think that's why I'm enjoying Atlantis so much more this season. Lots of good character moments in this one.

*Loved the intergalactic McKay/Carter bridge (I bet Sam calls it the Carter/McKay bridge...;) ) and the beginning where they sent the puddle jumper thru was cool

*Loved the ancients returning to reclaim the city. *Looks it's the Destroyer of Worlds!* I could really feel the disappointment of all the team members as they left the place they've called home for the past two years. Really felt sorry for Weir in this one - she was so depressed.

* I know they ripped off the "Into the Serpent's Venom" premise at the end but I don't care. That was some classic SG-1 and it worked again for this episode.

* I have always liked the replicators, including the human replicators. They kind of freak me out. I knew the minute they mentioned that the Ancients were protected by the replicators coding that things were going to go wonky. I thought the cliffhanger was very dramatic as our team dialed the gate for Atlantis to setup a big battle to reclaim the city.

* Poor Carson. All the rumors are making me a little sad. And I loved that he thought about his turtles and leaving them all alone. :(

* I had fun watching the Shep/Teyla and Shep/Weir interactions to see if the writers were going to tease the shippers a little more. I admit I usually don't see the shippy moments and I sure didn't see any in this episode. Just friendship.

My quibble is having Jack in this episode. He seemed stiff and out of place - much as he did in his cameos early in S9. And Jack in his dress blues may make some fangirls drool but I like Jack best when he's in the action. Right now it just felt like obvious stuntcasting that didn't really work. Jack doesn't have an emotional connection to the Atlantis folks - it's to SG-1. Maybe Part II will prove me wrong but right now I feel like they're just wasting an RDA appearance.

But overall - good setup and I'm anxious to see Part II.! :D :D

Arative
September 23rd, 2006, 08:55 AM
Everquest just released an expansion to go to level 75, maybe the writers got their games confused.

I do hope at least one ancient survives to give them some good info on Atlantis, not too much to make them too powerful but at least some.

kris
September 23rd, 2006, 09:10 AM
A mid-season cliffie without Rodney McKay as hostage??

That's a nice, relaxing change. Good episode. Liked the "lonely guy, lonely gal" moments. I'm glad they chose to take time to focus on that because it would be a heck of an adjustment to go back to Earth prematurely and leave your teammates.

Wonderful, yet entertaining, character development. A real treat after one of my other favorite shows came up disappointing in the depth department on its season 3 premiere night.

6 month wait for some of us, amazing. And I thought January was too long a stretch.

BubblingOverWithIdeas
September 23rd, 2006, 09:19 AM
I'd like to give those Ancients a piece of my mind. It was their city. Was. Past tense. They (including the Tria crew) abandoned it. We rightfully inherited it. And as Rodney pointed out, there were only about a 100 of them. The best thing they could have done would have been to accept that things change in 10,000 years and agreed to share the city. Adapt or die.

If only McKay had discovered the control override device before this episode and come with a way to bypass it. Then when Helia said, "The city is now under my control", he could have said, "The hell it is, blondie."

pisces27
September 23rd, 2006, 09:35 AM
I loved this ep. Go Team!

Hated the smug arrogant ancients. They got what they deserved. The beginning was sad, all the goodbyes. Loved the bit with Ronon picking Shep up. Lizzie, looking back at Atlantis for maybe the last time. Imagine Ronon on earth? Reportings of Bigfoot would have increased. Back on earth they all seemed like fish out of water. Liz having the hardest time adusting. Nice when they all got together for dinner. Suprised they were able to get out of SGC that easily. The Geni trying to entice Ronon and Teyla to join them was interesting.Shep's in big trouble again, but Jack will get him out of it.

So far I love the first half of season 3... Can't wait for the next half.

X-Seti
September 23rd, 2006, 10:15 AM
Wow...if the Canada gets the episode first i dont think i want to know what happens until the US gets it.

I want to be suprised. I going to die i hate this six month thing...im depressed right now.

But want an awesome episode, i hate two parters.

We only have a wait 2 months in the UK (And being back and forth from canada), first of season 3 and 10 start October and run with-out interuption on skyone.

Elles
September 23rd, 2006, 10:17 AM
Sure... I liked the episode... but regarding Martin Gero's apparent change in his preference of Shweir vs. Sheyla....
:sholva: :sholva: :sholva:
:psycho: :psycho: :psycho:
Maybe I'm just dillusional and seeing things... but yeah...
The Sheyla stuff alone is enough to make me give it 8/10 instead of 10/10... But I'll give it 9/10...

Alipeeps
September 23rd, 2006, 10:27 AM
I adored this episode. I din't have many expectations of it going in and it absolutely blew me away - and not by big explosions or dramatic action.. but with the little things, the character moments, the little moments of humour etc.

The scenes of them packing up to leave the city were awesome... they've been there for a couple of years now and it is home for them and their friends and colleagues have become like family.. and having to leave that behind - and go back to a normal, humdrum life - has gotta be SO tough! The scene in Sheppard's room I especially loved... JF absolutely sold that scene to me. And the bear hug? Cuteness!

I know TPTB have expressed their intent to really build on and show the close team relationships in S3 - which people have felt were lacking in previous seasons - and time and again in this season they have done just that and this episode really sealed it for me. I really see and believe that these people are the best of friends and that being separated like this, without warning, is gutting for them.

I loved the humour moments too - John Sheppard quotes The Princess Bride! *dies* That is so much awesomeness. Weir trying to flirt with Lee over an online RPG (which she clearly knows nothing about!) had me in stitches.

Oh and just so many wonderful moments of seeing the team out of their usual element and how they react to that. Just wonderful.

Is it shallow of me to also mention here how *hawt* Sheppard looked in jeans and a black shirt? *whines* :D

I can't wait for the conclusion to this ep - it's looking to be action-packed (which I can go for as we've had the lovely set-up in this ep) and hopefully we'll get to see Sheppard and O'Neill working together to retake the city, which would be all kinds of awesome.

In short. Excellent ep. :D

Alipeeps
September 23rd, 2006, 10:33 AM
The other thing was I could get past how completely selfish the Atlantis team were in this episode. Yes Atlantis has become a new home to them but the fact the wouldn't help blown up the city was just plain annoying, they're risking the replicators getting to the milkyway for what? For the fact they're selfish and refused to lose their new home in the process risking billions of life.

I also don't like this Atlantis vs SGC story the writers have put into place, it seems whenever they meet they disagree or disobey orders from one another, they're supposed to be on the same side.

Had to give my POV on this - thing is, they are not risking the replicators getting to the Milky Way. I didn't see that they refused to help blow up the city - I doubt Landry would have given them (particularly Sheppard) any leeway to refuse to answer his question... the scene ended on their faces showing reluctance and regret but not refusing to answer. Tho as we never saw their answer to Landry i guess we can't know for sure. My take on it is that they gave their answers about the best way to deliver the nuke (and we know the Daedalus is already on it's way to blow up Atlantis and will be there in 4 days). The team are going to try and take back the city and rescure their people before that happens. Either they succeed and rescue O'Neill and Woollsey and save Atlantis.. or they fail and they and O'Neill and Woollsey get blown up along with the city.

Their travelling to Pegaus is not in any way making it more likely for the replicators to come to the Milky Way. The most you could say they've done (other than the issue of disobeying direct orders) is steal the puddle jumper and thereby deprive the Earth of an important piece of Ancient technology.

ShadowMaat
September 23rd, 2006, 10:35 AM
Incidentally, am I allowed to say, "Nyaa nyaa, toldja so!" to all the people screaming about how the Asurans aren't the Replicators? Even the characters are calling them Replicators. That's good enough for me. http://www.pushupstairs.com/images/emoticon/neptune/Animated/Saucy/saucy018.gif

aaobuttons
September 23rd, 2006, 10:43 AM
Sure... I liked the episode... but regarding Martin Gero's apparent change in his preference of Shweir vs. Sheyla....
:sholva: :sholva: :sholva:
:psycho: :psycho: :psycho:
Maybe I'm just dillusional and seeing things... but yeah...
The Sheyla stuff alone is enough to make me give it 8/10 instead of 10/10... But I'll give it 9/10...


Thanks for bringing the Ship-Hate into a otherwise happily Ship-Free thread.

I don't understand what you're talking about anyways... There were plenty of moments between everybody (Shep/Weir and Shep/Teyla included). All shippers could be happy if they wanted to see something between their couples, and those that aren't shippers could be happy with all the friend moments (of which there were a wonderful many).

You are free to have your preference, but please keep it out of this thread and take it to either the Shep/Weir thread or the Anti- Shep/Teyla thread.

Bragi
September 23rd, 2006, 10:44 AM
All I'm going to say besides that was a really great ending is:

Poor Siler. . .

CalmStorm
September 23rd, 2006, 10:48 AM
Incidentally, am I allowed to say, "Nyaa nyaa, toldja so!" to all the people screaming about how the Asurans aren't the Replicators? Even the characters are calling them Replicators. That's good enough for me. http://www.pushupstairs.com/images/emoticon/neptune/Animated/Saucy/saucy018.gif


I thought they always called them replicators from midway point in the episode they were introduced in. Didn't McKay call them replicators after their interrogation in the cell?

There are some out there who believe the Asurans are really ancients? LOL...I must have missed those discussions (which I guess I can be thankful I did) :P

Zoser
September 23rd, 2006, 10:51 AM
:\ Siler gets the short end of the stick once again. There's just no love for us AF engineers.
Did they zat him in the puddle jumper? and if they did, did they drag him out or is he going along for the ride?

Zoser
September 23rd, 2006, 10:56 AM
I think the episode was just a waste of RDA. I'd prefer to see him on Sg1. The character bits were nice. I liked the moment between Ronan and Sheppard. There were a lot of things that bugged me about this episode but such as how huge Weir's quarters were. It was ridiculously large. It must have doubled as something else as well. What the hell does she do with that space? I guess I more fascinated with that then merely bugged.
What was with his hair in the first scene with Landry?
If you are going to use O'Neill, especially off world - put the man in battle dress and arm him!!!


http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e312/Zzoser/Jack_anime_P90s.gif

Luz
September 23rd, 2006, 10:57 AM
Maybe I'm just dillusional and seeing things... but yeah...
The Sheyla stuff alone is enough to make me give it 8/10 instead of 10/10... But I'll give it 9/10...
I'm a Sheppard/Weir shipper, and I loved those scenes, anything that's directed at showing how deep the bonds are between the members of this expedition is welcome. Personally I think they way they wrote how everyone reacted was well written, and I teared up a bit when Sheppard was saying goodbye to Ronon and Teyla because it was a really sweet scene that showed to us just how much he cares about and has come to trust these people, and how much he was going to miss them.
I think it's a bit childish to grade an episode based on whether other ships than your own got scenes together, but it's your right, it just seems to make the show less enjoyable (for you) IMO.

ShadowMaat
September 23rd, 2006, 10:57 AM
I thought they always called them replicators from midway point in the episode they were introduced in. Didn't McKay call them replicators after their interrogation in the cell?
Yeah, but now Jack has called 'em Replicators. That makes it official. LOL! *shrug* I just feel that the ep cemented the fact that they are Replicators, despite all the froth-mouthed insults and attacks from those who insisted they were completely separate.


There are some out there who believe the Asurans are really ancients?
Call it a studied distrust of accepting everything at face value. ;) Just because someon SAYS they're an Ancient doesn't mean that they are.

Alipeeps
September 23rd, 2006, 11:01 AM
Incidentally, am I allowed to say, "Nyaa nyaa, toldja so!" to all the people screaming about how the Asurans aren't the Replicators? Even the characters are calling them Replicators. That's good enough for me. http://www.pushupstairs.com/images/emoticon/neptune/Animated/Saucy/saucy018.gif

Hmmmmm well... to be fair, it was O'Neill that called em replicators... and what else would he call em? The technology is basically the same and he's dealt with that technology in the Milky Way and knows it by the name replicators... That's gonna be his and SGC's take on the Asurans.

Alipeeps
September 23rd, 2006, 11:04 AM
Did they zat him in the puddle jumper? and if they did, did they drag him out or is he going along for the ride?

He was standing near the exit ramp of the jumper and when Sheppard zatted him he collapsed an rolled down the ramp onto the floor. So no, he's not along for the ride.

Descent
September 23rd, 2006, 11:47 AM
I finally got done finishing this episode. Great one, I think it topped both The Quest and last year's The Lost Boys. Although it was just purely setup, it was good setup. Very touching to see the family broken up. I also loved Carson worrying about his turtles. Not the best cliffhanger ever but I'd give this episode a 9/10.

Can't wait for Part 2.

Dorka
September 23rd, 2006, 11:47 AM
I just watched this episode... and I have to say, this one is definitely going to be my new favourite episode! I Loved it...loved every single character this time! the only bad thing was the evil cliffhanger at the end...but at least we will know for sure, that it will be more then interesting for the next 10 episodes!

I LOVED how they focused on Elizabeth being the most depressed about the whole thing and that she was going with them and even carrying a gun (not even a small one)

I loved Carson for the reason keeping the team together! He's such a sweet guy, and that turtle coment...I was SO falling off my chair from laughing.

So this had all in it! Shooting, Special effects, character-moments, science and a good storyline... *is a happy fan!*

From me definitely 10/10 points after I was quite disapointed from the last 2 episodes ;)

stubadingdong
September 23rd, 2006, 11:56 AM
In a nutshell, this was a fantastic character episode. I just loved how none of them were even close to happy away from Atlantis. They weren't at home anymore and it showed bigtime. Even Teyla wasn't happy being back with her people. The feeling of loss and emptiness and just going through the motions due to separation of the family was nearly tangible.

I'm really diggin' this family vibe this season. Atlantis is home. Period.

CalmStorm
September 23rd, 2006, 12:00 PM
I LOVED how they focused on Elizabeth being the most depressed about the whole thing and that she was going with them and even carrying a gun (not even a small one)

I completely missed her with a gun. I'll have to watch that part again :)

...was it a P-90 or one of the new ARG (replicator guns) ?

Descent
September 23rd, 2006, 12:03 PM
What was with his hair in the first scene with Landry?


His hair was dyed and spikey in his first scene and then all of sudden it was flat and white in his next one. Twas' weird. :S

aaobuttons
September 23rd, 2006, 12:03 PM
I completely missed her with a gun. I'll have to watch that part again :)

...was it a P-90 or one of the new ARG (replicator guns) ?
I like that Elizabeth prefers words over guns... but in this case I think It'd be foolish for her NOT to have a gun. Sometimes you have to fight and I like that she's smart enough to see that.

Descent
September 23rd, 2006, 12:06 PM
I like that Elizabeth prefers words over guns... but in this case I think It'd be foolish for her NOT to have a gun. Sometimes you have to fight and I like that she's smart enough to see that.

Shes a diplomat, not a commando. :P I'm glad she realizes she can't reason with these things...unlike someone we know...

keshou
September 23rd, 2006, 12:12 PM
He was standing near the exit ramp of the jumper and when Sheppard zatted him he collapsed an rolled down the ramp onto the floor. So no, he's not along for the ride.
Well thank goodness. I didn't see him roll down the ramp and was kind of wondering about him myself.

Might have been fun to see Siler getting thrown around the Atlantis set by the replicators if he'd tagged along. ;)

*poor Siler*

Alipeeps
September 23rd, 2006, 12:16 PM
Heh. Rewatching and had a random thought - none of Elizabeth, John or Rodney have an annoying tune on their mobile phones? Just standard type ringtones, every one of them... now come on, you're not tell me that McKay at least wouldn't have the Star Wars theme tune or something on his mobile?!! :D :D

CalmStorm
September 23rd, 2006, 12:19 PM
... now come on, you're not tell me that McKay at least wouldn't have the Star Wars theme tune or something on his mobile?!! :D :D


LOL....I was certain he was going to have the Mission Impossible or James Bond theme going.

SGADUDE
September 23rd, 2006, 12:29 PM
After watching this episode of Atlantis I've come to the conclusion that it was good episode but it was put in the wrong spot this season this episode would've made a great season finale instead of a midseason 2 parter. I think Atlantis has had its best season this year but to get the ratings up they should really send the show in a radical new direction. The Return could of been that new direction. The writers should have taken out the Asuran part made it really about the ancients coming back to atlantis only. Think about it the ancients come back takeover atlantis and tell the expedition to leave they leave but they leave some negotiatiors behind and eventaully the ancients through the negotiations allow the humans to come back to Atlantis with a small contingent of about 50 or so people (led by Weir and Sheppard) mainly because the expeditions knows more about the pegasus galaxy today then the ancients because all of the ancients intel is 10,000 yrs old. So the expeditions returns minus beckett as a regular he still pops up from time to time as a recurring character on the show. And Teyla also becomes a recuuring becuase she really doesn't seem to have place in the show anymore. So the season ends with a smaller expedition back in Atlantis and operating under the Ancients overall leadership (Does always have to be a cliffhanger season finale). Than season 4 comes with new reguler characters like that Ancient ship captain we saw last night as the new commander of Atlantis and maybe another ancient joins Sheppard, Mckay and Ronin as Teyla's replacement on the team because Teyla has rejoined her people as their leader again on their new home planet the ancients provided them. Season 4's main plot will be about how the Humans work together with the newly returned ancients to beat the Wraith and the Asurans and how they (Humans and Ancients) change each others views on on to do things an solve problems similar to how the Asgard would always think of a hightech way of solving a problem but when it came to the replactors they needed SG1's less advanced thinking to stop the replacators from taking over their home planet. This idea I've typed out I think would've really freshened up the show as it gets older.

Mitchell82
September 23rd, 2006, 12:30 PM
This was indeed a great episode. I said the same thing about Within the Serpants Grasp b/c of the disobeying orders thing but totally different. Everything about this episode clicked for me and I don't want to hurt anyone's feelings so i will apoplgise in advance in case I do. I really don't see the problems some state about this episode. we finally get to see real Ancients actually in Atlantis in our time. The Asurans will be a great enemy and I just can't stop raving abut this episdoe b/c it was that good for me. Sorry that not everyone fells this way but to each is own.

SimilarCadence
September 23rd, 2006, 12:35 PM
Wonderful episode.....

*Last night, imo, the team finally became family---what an amazing amount of genuine bonding and deep friendship expressed. I could feel the ache inside that each one felt at having to say goodbye and then their loneliness while apart from each other on Earth. The actors all did such a great job in conveying these emotions. Loved the dinner date between John, Carson, Elizabeth and Rodney! The scenes between Carson and Elizabeth in her apartment were especially nice. And the head meld (for lack of a better term!) between Teyla and John was very touching. I think I'll just repeat what Ironic said in an earlier post: "It was all about loving, but not the shipping kind."

*I loved the whole hijack-the-puddlejumper-and-save-Atlantis bit and I didn't mind that it's been done before. It actually reminded me of Kirk and company disobeying orders and taking the Enterprise in The Search for Spock---didn't even think of Within the Serpent's Grasp until others posted it here. I don't mind recycled ideas if they're done well and as far as I'm concerned, last night Team Atlantis made it their own..... This is the first time in a long while that I've had that can't-wait feeling about seeing the second half of a two-parter in the Stargate universe. Six months is a long time.....

Miscellaneous thoughts:
*I found it enormously satisfying having Sheppard cut Landry off in mid-sentence....

*Thought the writers had Ke'ra/Linnea (memory intact) commandeer the Ancients' ship in her mad pursuit of taking over the Pegasus Galaxy when I first saw her familiar face! ;) Don't really mind the actress being recycled as an Ancient though....

*Not at all happy with the rumors about Beckett....

*I love seeing Jack anytime, anywhere, but I hope he's given a lot more to do in the second part when it comes around. (I'd prefer to see him in SG-1 rather than Atlantis, but I'll take what I can get....) He's much too good to waste.....

DaDigi
September 23rd, 2006, 12:48 PM
Oddly, this episode reminded me of TBFTFOG (There But For The Grace of God - 1x20) at the end.

jckfan55
September 23rd, 2006, 12:57 PM
Overall, a pretty decent episode. I liked that everyone got something to do and it wasn't the Rodney show.

I was sorry they didn't address the Athosians/Ancestors thing more. There's gotta be some major disillusionment going on there. Why not see it? It seemed like Teyla got dissed by the Ancients. That would have made a nice scene.

I thought RDA was sadly wasted. If you're going to bring him in, use him FCOL. :(
They've set things up nicely for part 2.

Callie
September 23rd, 2006, 01:02 PM
Maybe I have a strange imagination, but when Ronon and Teyla are standing at the fire in the Athosian settlement and discussing whether or not to join the Genii, Ronon jiggles his body in a way that made me think that he’d just peed in the soup.

Pocus
September 23rd, 2006, 01:15 PM
I thought this was a great episode!! It was filled with emotion: nervousnes about the bridge working, elation at discovering an Ancient Warship and meeting its crew, confusion and disappointment about having to leave Atlantis, aimlessness (if that is even a word or feeling :S ) and displacement back on Earth, and (most importantly to me) DETERMINATION to get their city back!

Loved:

*The Goodbyes
My favorite was between Sheppard, Teyla, and Ronon. It was just right for them. Not mushy at all but you knew they were trying to not say sad things. They needed to keep it positive. Loved the Ronon tackle/hug (wonder if that was something Jason came up with on the spot and they decided to keep it in? The reactions all around were priceless).
The Rodney/Carson goodbye showed me how much Rodney has grown. He realized (a little to late but at least he tried) that Carson was really upset and had really wanted to say something. I wonder exactly what he had been going to say.
The Teyla/Sheppard goodbye at the gate. It showed how far they have come as friends. The first time we saw the forehead salutation in Rising, it was awkard on Sheppard's part, but now we see how much he has come to respect her, her people, and their customs.
The Sheppard/Elizabeth goodbye in her room (looks like her Atlantis room was bigger than her apartment on Earth. I guess that was another reason she was depressed!) was personalized because it wasn't her packing up her office, but professional because of their discussion.

*their time on Earth. It was good to see what each of them were doing and that they were keeping in touch with each other. Rodney has probably never been so connected to a group of people in his life. Was it in Home when he had an empty answering machine after being away for so long? It seem that he never even imagined he would have real friends that would do so much for him.

*Carson going to talk to Elizabeth. He was the right choice. He knows what she has gone through and can keep an eye on her medically as well as just being her friend.

* all the cell phones ringing at the same time.

*the great team effort to get out of the SGC. Poor Siler, but at least he did not get thrown into a wall this time.

*seeing a Jumper come into the gateroom.

*Sheppard's hair ;)

Not sure about:

*Elizabeth's depression. I understand it, just was a little disappointed that she seemed liked she was not ready to start thinking about coming up with a plan to move on yet. Although it had only been six weeks since they had gotten back and she probably took the loss of the city more personally. The rest were handling it by keeping busy. Maybe writing her memoirs would have been very cathartic. She does seem to be someone who bottles lots of things up.

*Carson's turtles. I did not think you could buy turtles in the States anymore. They can carry Salmonella. Maybe that is just in my area or he got big turtles (shells over 4 inches). I did love that he was worried about them.

Disliked:

*the six month hiatus

*General O'Neill. I miss Colonel O'Neill! :( Jack always seems out of place/uncomfortable in Dress Blues. I love him in BDUs. He seems like he can be the character that I have known and loved for so many years when he is not all dressed up.

*waiting for six months for the second part

*Ladon's hair

*that March is so far away

Dr Weir
September 23rd, 2006, 01:34 PM
Awesome ep!!!! Yeah go rebels. Way to leave me on a cliff hanger! How long do I have to suffer until it's resolved? :(

prion
September 23rd, 2006, 01:50 PM
Disliked:[/B]

*the six month hiatus

*General O'Neill. I miss Colonel O'Neill! :( Jack always seems out of place/uncomfortable in Dress Blues. I love him in BDUs. He seems like he can be the character that I have known and loved for so many years when he is not all dressed up.

*waiting for six months for the second part

*Ladon's hair

*that March is so far away
[/FONT]

Yup, March too far away. Must get downloads from Canada.

O'Neill was... well, I'm glad he wasn't in much of it at all as he was pseudo-pod Jack. Cracks the dumb joke, just doesn't strike me as a military commander of any kind anymore.

I noticed Ladon's hair too. The actor is growing it out, plus growing the beard again (more like a goatee I think). It was cool to see the Genii come back into the picture.

ShadowMaat
September 23rd, 2006, 01:52 PM
Oh yeah, a belated YAY to the cutie from Daedalus being front & center at McKay's expositiony speech at the beginning and also getting to parrot the computer later on and generally just sit around looking all hot and official-like. :D

Must get screencaps and resurrect the Kleinman thunk thread. ;)

Lt.Colonel John Sheppard
September 23rd, 2006, 02:05 PM
okay yes i haven't seen this many posts on one episode that aired only yesterday. I like the whole Sheppard/O'Neill rogue thing Very "Within the serpent's Grasp". What i like the most was that music at the end of the episode where they are going through the gate and we fade to the to be continued... sign. I thought those were actual ancients and not asurans at the beginning. i wonder whats going to happen in the second part? hmm Sheppard and Atlantis Team 1 take on the replicators and take back their home. I love that sheppard got to wear an SGC uniform made him look like one of the personnel there.

ShadowMaat
September 23rd, 2006, 02:19 PM
Wouldn't it be funny if the whole attack on Atlantis had been staged? The RepliAncients come in and take over and then set it up to make it look like the city is under attack by the Replicators so that Jack will send a distress call through the gate and Earth will send help thereby insuring... something. That's where the daydream falls apart. ;)

I just have a really hard time accepting this whole story at face value. The plucky band of displaced Ancients coming back to reclaim their city, the conveniently timed Replicator attack, the distress call (why in hell would the Ancients allow such a call to take place? They've made it clear they don't need and don't want Earth's help), the Daedalus zooming to the rescue... I even wonder if Shep's mission is part of the conspiracy. After all, the Reps know he has a serious Hero Complex and that he'll do anything to protect "his" city and "his" people.

But hey, maybe everything IS exactly what it appears to be. We have six months to dawdle about and spin wild theories. I can come up with all kinds of craziness. :D

rosstaylor
September 23rd, 2006, 02:55 PM
what does anyone reckon that was behind rodney area 51, looked pretty outlandish

Wedo765
September 23rd, 2006, 03:14 PM
Their not Ancients, thats all i have to say, we're missing something, but theres no way there Ancients, cause lets face it if there Ancients that solves every problem instantly and wrecks the show, and i find it hard to believe that if they where full blooded Alterans that the Replcators what've moved in so quick, before they fought back, or rasied the sheild, or submerged the city

ToasterOnFire
September 23rd, 2006, 03:18 PM
Now see, this was an ep worth of the mid season finale title! I'm actually looking forward to part 2, unlike with Hive/Lost Boys last season. Great plot, nods to previous eps, and character development. I thought there was a bit too much set-up and less action compared to the SG1 finale, but I'll have to wait to see how the second half shapes up before rendering a final decision.


-Bravo for all the little character moments! Ronon bear hugging Shep, Teyla and Shep's farewell, Carson reaching out to Elizabeth, Rodney and Zelenka snarking while Carson tries to say something touching, Rodney and Elizabeth teaming up to get PJ access, Teyla and Ronon sticking together with the Athosians, and Shep and Rodney's phone call. All of it felt natural, not forced. THIS is what was missing in s2!

-Jack's scenes fell flat with me. They weren't as grating as s9 of SG1, but they lacked spark or something. Still, I did like his scene with Weir in her office.

-I thought they gave up the city way too easily, especially after mistaking the Asurans for Ancients so recently. The transition between hello Ancients! to exiting Atlantis to 6 months later was a bit jarring. The push to stay in Atlantis would have been a perfect opportunity to use Weir, but it ended up being more Jack and Woolsey. Perhaps that was intentional to make it easier to show her spiraling into depression?

-I can understand that TPTB wanted to convey how Shep, Weir, Rodney, and Carson saw Altantis as their home. But realistically there's no way that they would charge off like that to save it on their own. Come on, with Teyla and Ronon only half of the team are really competent shooters (Rodney's a maybe, depending on who's writing him :P). Why would they think that they stood a chance against a ship full of replicators beating the piss out of Ancients?

-Shep's in the hot seat again with Landry. But come on, does anyone honestly think he's going to be reprimanded?

-Ladon and the Genii!!

-Was the costuming during the Earth dinner intentional? Weir was wearing a red top, Rodney was wearing a blue suit, and Shep was wearing black (right?). Was this to show that subconsiously they were missing their roles on Atlantis? I don't tend to think TPTB work on that deep of a level, but bravo if they did.

-I enjoyed seeing Rodney cranky for Elizabeth when she was turned away from the meeting and worried about her self-imposed isolation while on Earth. And his lab is "too big", HA! :D

-WHO WILL SAVE THE WEE TURTLES!!! ;)

SG1Atlantis
September 23rd, 2006, 03:28 PM
Not a bad ep, but it definitely could have been better. The whole thing was just setting up for the 2nd half. I also gotta agree with the other ppl here who said that they are NOT ancients. They cant be, they've gotta be replicators. I mean after all this time of trying to find ancients and we just conviently find them on a ship, conviently a short distance away from the Daedalus at that exact time? Bit of a stretch.
I can see the ancients kicking them out, after our glimpse into thier personalities in "Before I Sleep", but give them more time and I don't think they would have done it in such a abrupt manner.

Also, I hate to say this cuz I adore RDA, but he looked so much older than he did in S9, even ep "200". Maybe its the Air Force uniform but he just didnt look or sound like his sarcastic and adorable self.

Overall, not bad, good team dynamics and good seeing Weir go rebellious against Landry and joining the others, but I give it a 6/10.

Arlessiar
September 23rd, 2006, 03:30 PM
Heh. Rewatching and had a random thought - none of Elizabeth, John or Rodney have an annoying tune on their mobile phones? Just standard type ringtones, every one of them... now come on, you're not tell me that McKay at least wouldn't have the Star Wars theme tune or something on his mobile?!! :D :D That's funny, I thought exactly the same thing! You hear so many weird or annoying ringtones every day, on the street, in the bus, in the office - when these three phones rang in the restaurant I immediately noticed that they all have "normal" ringtones and was very thankful for that! :D
I'm not sure about Rodney having a geeky ringtone. Yes, he is a geek, but he doesn't admit that often (didn't he even once call TV a waste of time, although it's pretty clear that he watches a lot of TV? See "Home" or how often he talks about Star Trek). In fact I would have thought that Sheppard would be the one whose mobile phone has a geeky or funny ringtone. Or a Johnny Cash song. :D

Bye, A.

doylefan22
September 23rd, 2006, 03:35 PM
Their not Ancients, thats all i have to say, we're missing something, but theres no way there Ancients, cause lets face it if there Ancients that solves every problem instantly and wrecks the show

Not if they're all dead or ascended by the end of the episode.


and i find it hard to believe that if they where full blooded Alterans that the Replcators what've moved in so quick, before they fought back, or rasied the sheild, or submerged the city

I was under the impression that there weren't that many Ancients. That's why O'Neill and others were offering them manpower that they themselves didn't have. Depending on the ferocity and numbers of the Asuran attack they could have been easily overwhelmed.

white noise
September 23rd, 2006, 03:48 PM
i think something stinks with the "ancients"! why do they want everyone gone immediately, even tayla's people? what's the big rush? then the replicators popping up immediately........something is definatly fish there. i think it was a great story, but having to wait 6 months for the rest, makes me wonder if i'll even care by then. i also find myself taking out my animosity on battlestar gallactica, which was one of my favs, which is stupid...but what are you going to do. there's a good probability i won't even watch it anymore. sigh! thanks for letting me vent, guys. i am NOT in a good mood!

LiLTiff17
September 23rd, 2006, 04:02 PM
Did anyone notice that when Linea (sp) caused the podium to rise up seemingly out of nowhere that Ronon pointed his gun at it. :lol: I noticed it not in the actual episode, but a screencap.

I would have liked this episode better if it had been a three parter not a two parter to allow more time for interaction/first impressions of the ancients and then being able to witness more snippets of their 6 months back on Earth (and perhaps a scene with Teyla getting readjusted to living among her people along with Ronon). Then I would have had this episode end the way another poster suggested, Weir, Sheppard, Mckay and Carson are in the Jumper and zoom off and then "TBC".

Nonetheless great setup-enough to keep me interested when it airs again in 6 months. :rolleyes:

Oh and please let them have been real ancients.

Alipeeps
September 23rd, 2006, 04:11 PM
Seen a coupla people here referring to the team being back on Earth for 6 months.. I think we're getting confused with the real-life (horrendous) 6 month hiatus here... it is stated in the ep that the team has been back for 6 weeks, not 6 months.

ShadowMaat
September 23rd, 2006, 04:17 PM
Jack looked... airbrushed. He was too crisp and perfect and shiny. That's not the Jack I remember.

Of course, the Jack I remember is also from three or four seasons ago. Obviously a lot has changed since then. What a shame...

Why bring a character as historically significant as O'Neill into an episode if he's only going to be used as a fill-in-the-blank character? Weasel Woolsey could have had a trained monkey in a suit and it'd have served about the same amount of purpose as Jack did. In fact, the monkey might not have looked as awkwardly misplaced. ;)

All my opinion, of course, but I hate to see characters wasted and Jack was, IMO, tremendously wasted in this ep. And I doubt he'll be much better in the conclusion.

LiLTiff17
September 23rd, 2006, 04:17 PM
Seen a coupla people here referring to the team being back on Earth for 6 months.. I think we're getting confused with the real-life (horrendous) 6 month hiatus here... it is stated in the ep that the team has been back for 6 weeks, not 6 months.

My bad I meant to say 6 weeks. I guess I was thinking of the 6 month hiatus. Besides if the crew where exiled from Atlantis for 6 months Weir would probably be dead from depression.

Descent
September 23rd, 2006, 04:37 PM
Not at all happy with the rumors about Beckett....

I suggest taking them as what they are: just rumors. :P There was a rumor that Ford would be in Allies. I didn't see him, did you? ;)

Elles
September 23rd, 2006, 04:45 PM
Thanks for bringing the Ship-Hate into a otherwise happily Ship-Free thread.

I don't understand what you're talking about anyways...
Firstly, you're welcome. :P :P :P
Ok... fine...
I am so sorry.

Secondly, it wasn't that way with Gero episodes before... Well, before I considered Conversion to be a fluke... But the unreasonable doubt left in my mind when there's a little bit of both... annoys me.

Alipeeps
September 23rd, 2006, 04:52 PM
Firstly, you're welcome. :P :P :P
Ok... fine...
I am so sorry.

Secondly, it wasn't that way with Gero episodes before... Well, before I considered Conversion to be a fluke... But the unreasonable doubt left in my mind when there's a little bit of both... annoys me.

Or it could just be that the writers are not intentionally writing any ship into an episode (let alone "a little of both") and were in fact portraying the close friendships the team has formed.

If that spoils the episode for you then I guess that's your loss...

nccjones
September 23rd, 2006, 05:17 PM
:eek:

Ellia is supposed to become a doctor??? :eek: :P

I actually haven't heard anything about that. But it does make sense. I mean, Carson acted all sad and depressed when he was returning to Earth. Acted like he only had a little bit of time left. He was all sad and stuff. :(

Well I hope it's not who is implied :(. My hopes would be that Ronan leaves (not killed...I don't like main characters getting killed whether I like them or not) and that Carson joins the team and then Jewel becomes the new doctor. That would make a perfect Atlantis to me :)

I really enjoyed this episode pretty much for all the reasons everyone stated. Great team moments. Up and down emotions from being nervous about the gate jumping to excited about the Ancients and to quiet disappointment about losing Atlantis.

Loved how we saw the team adjusting (or not) to life back on Earth. Loved how it wasn't a trick of any kind and it was really happening for once. I actually like the team of Wier, Sheppard, Mckay and Carson...they were awesome!

Can't wait till part II. It's a long way away :(

nccjones
September 23rd, 2006, 05:30 PM
What I find amusing is how Lee bought Weir's story that she was a WoW fanatic. The lady had been in an entirely different galaxy for three years, Lee. How in the world is she supposed to log on?


Good catch. Another thing that bugged me was when John zapped Harris (?) Carson had his hand on him...wouldn't he have been zapped too or at least got a good shock? Just a little thing I noticed...lol.

nccjones
September 23rd, 2006, 05:36 PM
Question: Is Ford dead?

Maybe I missed it somewhere along the way but I didn't think Ford had been killed. I ask because it bothered me that they left there without a mention of Ford and I thought we didn't leave our people behind.

I'm just sayin'....

I believe Ford is going to become the Jonas Quinn of Atlantis. Never mentioned again, totally forgotten. It's unfortunate that TPTB treat good characters that way.

ShadowMaat
September 23rd, 2006, 05:46 PM
I believe Ford is going to become the Jonas Quinn of Atlantis. Never mentioned again, totally forgotten. It's unfortunate that TPTB treat good characters that way.
If TPTB start saying that it depends on whether or not they can find the right story and if Rainbow's schedule allows it, you'll know Ford is well and truly shafted.

PG15
September 23rd, 2006, 05:50 PM
UberGod Martin Gero hits it out of orbit!! :D

I don't know what to say...I mean, maybe except for Irresistable and Misbegotten (in the eyes of some people; not mine), pretty much every episode this season, so far, has been fracking awesome!! And The Return just tops that, by leaps and bounds!! :D:D

There are just SO many good things in this episode. Like SG1's mid-season finale, there weren't much flash and bangs (actually...there were none), but damn, it was just brilliant.

Well ok, before I actually get to the meat of the "review", I gotta say that that initial view of the Midway Station was pretty sweet, especially with the galaxies in the background. The "relativistic" Ancient ship was pretty funky too.

So, the meat: CHARACTER MOMENTS GALORE. Yep, that's what this episode was. Every scene had a significant character moment in it, from Beckett's goodbye to Rodney, to Ronan's bear-hug of Shep, to Teyla and Shep "touching heads", to "I forgot to bring my cellphone!", the list is endless.

Hell, even things that weren't needed, like the Genii's involvement, was, well, involved in this episode! The little callbacks, like War and Peace, or Cadman, just make this episode that much better. The new character moments, like Ronan's Endgame in the Pegasus galaxy, as well as Dr. Lee's WoW geekasm with Weir (yep, I did mean for that to sound THAT dirty ;)) just piled onto the already toppling list of character moments in this episode.

And of course, how can I forget, O'Neill is back!! Even at his worst moments, he can bring in his "O'Neill-isms" to save the day. This was far from his worst moment though, and I loved every minute of it. :D

A few months ago, someone (Gero?) talked about this being a good series finale if the show somehow stopped here, and I think he's right, for the most part (the cliffhanger obviously doesn't help in that regard). All the goodbyes, especially the last one before the gate (sidenote: I liked how they always seem to emphasize "I'll see you at the gate", as if that's the one thing left that they can latch onto now that their lives are going to go back to monotony) were very well done, the last one even sent a shiver down my spine. I think I'll be crying when the series finally end a few decades from now. ;)

There are so many more things to mention (Turtles! My office is too big! Buddha statue! Seductress!Weir!) but I'll stop here, before I loose my chain of thought. I can only wonder at how cool the second part's gonna be, with Shep and his team saving the day all by themselves (think "The Eye", but better), and of course, the repercussions of stealing the jumper.

Just. Plain. Awesome. :D

Score: 10/10

I'm so glad I live in Canada...and have the internet. :D

BubblingOverWithIdeas
September 23rd, 2006, 05:52 PM
Wouldn't it be funny if the whole attack on Atlantis had been staged? The RepliAncients come in and take over and then set it up to make it look like the city is under attack by the Replicators so that Jack will send a distress call through the gate and Earth will send help thereby insuring... something. That's where the daydream falls apart. ;)

It fell apart a bit before that, as Earth's reaction was not to send help, nor would the Asurans have expected that. They had no reason to stage the situation.

Descent
September 23rd, 2006, 06:19 PM
It was kind of sad that Carson broke up with Cadman, oh well...at least she got acknowledged... :beckett14:

ShadowMaat
September 23rd, 2006, 06:28 PM
It fell apart a bit before that, as Earth's reaction was not to send help, nor would the Asurans have expected that. They had no reason to stage the situation.
Didn't they send out the Daedalus? Didn't Jack specifically request help?

I thought the distress call itself was kinda odd. If the city is under attack why would the Ancients (or RepliAncients) allow Jack to dial Earth and call for help? What would be the point? And shouldn't they be putting the gate to better use than that?

Or are we to believe that Jack commandeered the gate to make a pointless call for help knowing that there was virtually no chance that any sort of help could possibly arrive in time to do any good?

What, exactly, did ANYONE expect from that call? Other than as a plot device to set up the Dramatic Rescue in part 2, of course. :P

kris
September 23rd, 2006, 07:10 PM
Oddly, this episode reminded me of TBFTFOG (There But For The Grace of God - 1x20) at the end.

Your comment struck me as an excellent comparison. And I feel the same way. The ending had that same atmosphere of doom on the way. TBFTGOG is one of my favorites of the early episodes. The AU that Daniel was trapped in was scary and tragic.

EdenSG
September 23rd, 2006, 07:42 PM
Well, I have to say this episode was totally different than what I expected, but even though it wasn’t what I expected I absolutely loved it! Not only did I feel this was a great character episode but I felt there was a lot of emotion and the tension slowly but steadily notched it’s way up.

The story was great. There were a lot of different layers – both character and plot - in this one episode that kept the story moving and interesting. The writers have done an outstanding job this year of really bringing the team together and giving it that family feel and this story was the icing on the cake. The team/family moments were just great. I think it not only explored a myriad of emotions in the characters but it brought the viewers (or at least me) through some of those emotions too.

Loved:
The Intergalactic Bridge is really cool. The shots where you see of the galaxies from each stargate were awesome.

Sheppard brought pizza back for everyone!

How Helia made that control panel pop up in front of the gate – obviously there is still so much stuff to discover about Atlantis.

RDA! I think the scene when Jack was talking to Weir in her office was the best Jack scene.

Loved all the character moments, especially the way we saw them adjusting/not adjusting to being away from Atlantis and from each other:

The goodbye between John, Teyla and Ronon in his room was touching. Again John expressed his difficulty in being able to express how he felt but Ronon said it all with the big bear hug.

The goodbye in front of the gate, specifically John and Teyla’s head touch (does that have a name?). It seemed to bring their friendship full circle – she used it in The Rising as a welcome and a sign of the beginning of their friendship and now John used as a goodbye. Very touching.

The dinner between John, Elizabeth, Carson and Rodney was sweet. They talked about stuff friends would talk about, Cadman, the kiss, etc. And then Elizabeth calling John “cheeky” was too cute.

Carson was magnificent. From getting teary eyed while trying to say goodbye to Rodney, to going to Elizabeth to try to snap her out of her depression/isolation, to being concerned about the “wee baby turtles”. The scene between him and Elizabeth in her apartment was an especially good.

Rodney was lonely! Loved how he was able to express that and that he was concerned about Elizabeth. And he thought his lab was too big? I had to smile.

The phone call between Rodney and John and their conversation was revealing. Again we see that these two have really developed a friendship. And John was playing with toy airplanes! I had to wonder if there was a part of John that was missing flying. On Atlantis he got to fly the PJ’s regularly and the occasional 302 – but I imangine there's not too much of that back at SGC.

John looked lost and out of place at SGC. He looked so uncomfortable, you could really feel he felt out of place, and it just wasn’t the lack of chemistry with the “new” team. He had really found his place and his family at Atlantis and I got the sense he was having trouble fitting in at SGC. Also I think he probably felt pushed aside and unneeded by Landry – like when he offered to discuss the replicators with Landry after the message from O’Neill and Woolsey and Landry says no, they seem to be able to handle things. Then when he and the rest of the team were called in by Landry after the replicators attack, it wasn’t to save Atlantis but to provide info on how to destroy it.

Having the team come together to decide to go back, against orders, to Atlantis. Stealing a puddle jumper and zapping your own people is risky to say the least and it shows a lot of the emotion and desperation they were feeling. And I think Gero did a great job building up to that – if he hadn’t done such a good job showing their sense of loss of being away from Atlantis and each other I don’t think what they did would have worked at all.

Side Note: I thought it was really interesting how the Genii sought out Ronon and Teyla to join them. It added another layer to the story –so they have plans to deal with the Wraith and need Teyla and Ronon to help? Hmmm, wonder what is up with that.

This ep was a great set up for part 2. Gero really put a strong emotional edge into the story and you have the clear sense that they are just not going to back to Atlantis to save “it” but to save their home – and O’Neill and Woolsey of course. I really can’t wait to see part 2. March is a long way off. Way too long.

2ndgenerationalteran
September 23rd, 2006, 07:55 PM
was that siler who got zatted in the jumper?

Descent
September 23rd, 2006, 08:00 PM
was that siler who got zatted in the jumper?

Yep, it was Siler. Poor guy. :P

ShadowMaat
September 23rd, 2006, 08:01 PM
I'd like to see Siler get payback some day for all the ills and injuries that have been done to him during his tenure at the SGC. ;)

2ndgenerationalteran
September 23rd, 2006, 08:11 PM
200's siler comment got me laughing though the commercial.

rononrocks
September 23rd, 2006, 11:30 PM
Hey, I heard about rumors about Carson dying off and stuff, but I just wanted to tell you guys that if Echoes is definitely going to be an episode in the second half of the third season, then it's IMPOSSIBLE for Beckett to be killed off. How can they kill him off and use him in that eppie? (Thank god. I love that Scottish man. Save the turtles!!) If they're going to kill off a main character, I get the bad feeling it might be either Teyla, who I feel has a lot of unexplored potential as a character, (and I know he isn't a main character, but he feels like one, anyway) or Caldwell. Just what I think.

~rononrocks

Lightbane
September 24th, 2006, 12:51 AM
Caldwell would be your best bet hes the only ship commander who hasn't died Emerson and Pendergast were killed by the enemy so it would point to the assumption that Caldwell could be killed off in the future

Personally i found much of that episode boring it just didn't really do anything for me, SG-1 was alot better for me this week, however the Gate station was pretty cool and impressive.

doylefan22
September 24th, 2006, 01:19 AM
I think it's going to be really hard to judge this episode properly until we've seen part 2. You wouldn't watch half an episode normally and then say what you think about it. It was a good start with some nice character touches but obviously stopped just when it was really getting going. Hope we get to see more of Jack next episode and I won't bemoan that he wasn't used much until we see the whole thing.

Although I will wonder why he looks like he's had a face lift...:confused:

Linzi
September 24th, 2006, 02:27 AM
Or it could just be that the writers are not intentionally writing any ship into an episode (let alone "a little of both") and were in fact portraying the close friendships the team has formed.

If that spoils the episode for you then I guess that's your loss...
Finally, the voice of reason...

Admiral Mappalazarou
September 24th, 2006, 03:07 AM
The ancients are so arrogant that they deserve to be shafted by the Wraith or Asurans.
Anyways, I loved this ep - great example of Stargate goodness!:)

The title suggested a helluva lotta things:
The return of the SGA team to Earth.
The return of General O'Neill.
The return of the Ancients.
The return of the Asurans.
The return of the SGA team to Pegasus (at the end).

Did I forget any?

LOVED THIS EP!!!!! :)

scarimor
September 24th, 2006, 04:41 AM
Well, this is a far better half of a two-arter than SG-1's. It feels like there is some story to be told on the other side. And it's a two-parter that hangs us on an up-note, i.e. one of anticipation, rather than mere jeopardy.

The acting was worth a second viewing - they all handled their characters' sense of surprise, disappointment, loss, and even betrayal as they were forced to leave Atlantis. TH was especially good in her scene in which she learns that she won't be the one to stay, and later Beckett's scene with Elizabeth at her flat was very well played by both actors.

I don't really understand what RDA was brought in for. Woolsey alone could have carried the delegation scenes, and we had plenty of Landry to bring in the military brass perspective. O'Neill seemed superfluous.

Other than that, it was a fine episode. I'm glad I watched it after the embarrassment that was SG-1's "dragon" :rolleyes:

Oh - and World of Warcraft! Hee! :D

EdenSG
September 24th, 2006, 06:26 AM
It feels like there is some story to be told on the other side. And it's a two-parter that hangs us on an up-note, i.e. one of anticipation, rather than mere jeopardy. :D


That's it! This is exactly how I was feeling but couldn't quite figure out the words to express it. What I really liked about the ending, as you said, it was more anticipation rather than mere jeopardy. Most of the seasons 2-parters (both Atlantis & SG-1) have ended with one or more of the characters in a positon where they are about to, or have died. Which means that when the second half of the 2-parter opens the character is "saved" in the first minutes and then the story moves on. With this ending It gives me the feeling of a lot more to come, that the story is just beginning and more anticipation of what may or may not happen. Now I guess you could say flying a jumper into the Atlantis gateroom filled with Asurans who want to kill you is also jeoaprdy but I think the difference here it seems as it is more offense than defense.

grasshopper64
September 24th, 2006, 06:32 AM
A brilliant ep for me. I actually liked RDA in this, he did look a little out of place but I think that's because he's been out of the show for over a year, and like he's said in interviews he wasn't expecting to do Atlantis, at least not 3 eps. In my opinion he would have been better used on doing more SG1 eps, but there you go.....
Plus I think Jack is much more comfortable in BDUs than full dress uniform, although presumably being in Washington he would be wearing uniform all the time. I'm sure we'll see more of Jack in action in part 2...
I liked his scenes with Dr Weir, I think they have a good chemistry together
(I don't mean in a shippy way) I was half expecting a hug or something instead of a handshake...
I found Woolsey a lot less annoying here than he has been previously, I liked the bit where he touches Jack's arm and Jack gives him a look as to say what are you doing? Woolsey actually talked some sense to the ancient woman.
Yes I would have liked some interaction with Jack and the others but perhaps we'll get that in part 2.

Anyway this was a great team episode overall, I loved the "serpents lair" type thing of disobeying orders and going through through the gate.
I liked the dinner scene they had together, why couldn't they have done that on SG1 a couple of weeks back?

It's good that Teyla and Ronon stayed together when they left, and Elizabeth pretending to be interested in World of warcraft with Dr Lee, brilliant.
There was just so many scenes of genuine friendship between these characters.

Can't wait for part 2 - 8/10

maxbo
September 24th, 2006, 06:39 AM
I found this episode so unexpectedly good that I have to temper my expectations for Part 2. Because Part 2 is months away, I expected this to be more of an action episode with just a few minutes devoted to characterization. To my pleasant surprise, it was all about the characters. We got to see their excitement about meeting Ancients/Ancestors (even the cool, collected Caldwell seemed excited), their stunned surprise at being booted from their home by the Ancients/Ancestors, their sadness about leaving friends, and their difficulty in adjusting to life outside of Atlantis.

Just a few of the hightlights:

The Goodbyes

The John, Teyla and Ronon Goodbye in John's room where there was a palpable sadness, but also the resolve to see each other again. Ronon's playful hug/lift of John, which showed his affection and lightened the mood. The Rodney, Carson and Zelenka Goodbye in the lab where we got to see a bit of how Rodney and Zelenka differ in their response to dangerous interruptions. Carson's near tears and Rodney realizing that he had gone too far and Zelenka's sad little goodbye wave to Carson. The John and Elizabeth Goodbye in Elizabeth's room where they first tried to stay within their stoic leader roles before admitting to feeling pissed and lost about being forced out of Atlantis. Elizabeth's sad last view of Atlantis at night from her window.

The Gate Goodbye where Rodney tried to leave instructions on caring for Atlantis like a dad leaving his child with the babysitter. Teyla's goodbye to Elizabeth, John and Carson that they had been good friends to all in the Pegasus galaxy. John's stepping up and giving Teyla the Athosian head touch goodbye. Rodney's subdued little goodbye to Teyla. Elizabeth's last look at Atlantis before entering the event horizon.

Life After Atlantis

John with his chemistry-free, clumsy new team that had him wishing for the less than graceful, Rodney Mckay. John's attempt to stay in touch with Atlantis by offering to help Jack and Woolsey and his disappointment when Landry turned him down.

Rodney sharing with John that he hates his new position where his lab is too big and his handpicked team is a bunch of sycophants. Rodney telling John that he misses people that he's afraid that he'll never see again. Carson's visit to a depressed and hard to reach Elizabeth and refusing to take no for an answer when he invites her to lunch with he, John and the visiting Rodney.

The Dinner scene where for one brief moment, most of the Team was back together and all was almost well. The multiple ringing cell phones.

The Great Escape

Loved the way everyone seemed to perk up at the possibility of returning to Atlantis, despite overwhelming odds. These scenes made me think of some of those fun, caper/escape type of movies of the 60's and 70's (hmmm, or was it the 50's and 60's?).

It was also good to see that even the Pegasus galaxy-born residents, Teyla and Ronon, also had to deal with separation issues. The scene with Ladon added just the right touch to show that even they couldn't easily go back to their lives and their people because too much had changed since their involvement with Atlantis and SG.

aaobuttons
September 24th, 2006, 07:08 AM
The Gate Goodbye where Rodney tried to leave instructions on caring for Atlantis like a dad leaving his child with the babysitter.


Lol! I loved that! And I love the continuity of bringing up something that happened 2 years ago, and that it's still causing problems...

I really wish they'd do that more often, the War and Peace, Popcorn, Head Touching, Cadman, Laden, Heck-- the Athosians (I was wondering if we'd hear about them again!), it all just makes the world more real and fleshed out and I wish the writers would realize how those little things really MAKE the episode. It's like Thanksgiving dinner... You've got a big spread with turkey, stuffing, beans, etc, and it's all good, but you add the pumpkin pie... and it's truly a Thanksgiving meal. :D

CalmStorm
September 24th, 2006, 07:16 AM
I think it's going to be really hard to judge this episode properly until we've seen part 2. You wouldn't watch half an episode normally and then say what you think about it. It was a good start with some nice character touches but obviously stopped just when it was really getting going. Hope we get to see more of Jack next episode and I won't bemoan that he wasn't used much until we see the whole thing.

Although I will wonder why he looks like he's had a face lift...:confused:

As for judging it as a whole, yes that would be hard without seeing Part 2. However, I find it easy to judge Part 1. It was an hour episode that ended in a cliffhanger. The hour I saw, I thouroughy enjoyed...so much so I have watched it 3 times now :)

maxbo
September 24th, 2006, 07:26 AM
Lol! I loved that! And I love the continuity of bringing up something that happened 2 years ago, and that it's still causing problems...

I really wish they'd do that more often, the War and Peace, Head Touching, Cadman, Laden, Heck-- the Athosians (I was wondering if we'd hear about them again!), it all just makes the world more real and fleshed out and I wish the writers would realize how those little things really MAKE the episode. It's like Thanksgiving dinner... You've got a big spread with turkey, stuffing, beans, etc, and it's all good, but you add the pumpkin pie... and it's truly a Thanksgiving meal. :D

I love your Thanksgiving dinner analogy because it ain't Thanksgiving without the pumpkin pie. :D

Just as this episode wouldn't have been as enjoyable without those little moments of continuity from past episodes. Each time something from the past was mentioned, I got exited because those moments made the scenes richer, more meaningful and also more poignant.

By the end of this episode, I could really feel why these characters wanted to return "home" and be with their *family* again.

jenks
September 24th, 2006, 08:04 AM
Woolsey getting his gun off! NICE!

aaobuttons
September 24th, 2006, 08:10 AM
Woolsey getting his gun off! NICE!

Does he even know how to shoot? :D Good for him though, not going down without a fight!

CalmStorm
September 24th, 2006, 08:17 AM
Does he even know how to shoot? :D Good for him though, not going down without a fight!

LOL.....at least he didn't eject the clip while trying to fire :P

...on a somewhat similar note, I'm suprised that the ancients allowed him to have a weapon on him at all.

aaobuttons
September 24th, 2006, 08:19 AM
I love your Thanksgiving dinner analogy because it ain't Thanksgiving without the pumpkin pie. :D

Just as this episode wouldn't have been as enjoyable without those little moments of continuity from past episodes. Each time something from the past was mentioned, I got exited because those moments made the scenes richer, more meaningful and also more poignant.

By the end of this episode, I could really feel why these characters wanted to return "home" and be with their *family* again.

:D Thanks!

Definetly, without those moments, the emphasis on Home and Family probably would have fallen a little flat. Atlantis really is their HOME now, they aren't the same back on Earth.

Descent
September 24th, 2006, 08:54 AM
Atlantis really is their HOME now, they aren't the same back on Earth.

Yes, it was very sweet actually to see Weir not being able to get over Atlantis. Or Mckay not enjoying his big fancy new assignment. Curse the Ancients for breaking up the family. :mckay:

Gate gal
September 24th, 2006, 11:01 AM
Maybe he was hoping Elizabeth wouldn't know that. ;) Wouldn't be the first time a guy has exagerrated something about himself while trying to impress a girl. :P

As for the "If SG-1 had been there they'd never have gotten away with their mad plan" comment... Ya know, it might have been more interesting if they'd run across someone from SG-1- Sam, for example- who had immediately figured out what they were doing and dropped hints that she approved but had to report them anyway while leaving herself open to getting zatted and thus giving her an alibi and letting them continue on their way. *shrug* It'd just be a sort of "passing of the torch" thing and it'd show a nice bond between SG-1 and AR-1. Another good "family" moment.
Hey, if Sam were there she'd have joined them. Shipper or not, everyone knows that Jack and Sam are friends. She would have joined the mutiny to help rescue him, and that is probably why she (and the rest of SG1) wasn't in the episode. SG1 wouldn't let SGA rescue Jack alone. I think this probably played out just the way it needed to play out, but I really want to see Jack rescue Woolsey before the SGA team saves them both. I need to see a hero Jack moment. I've missed them.

stewsith
September 24th, 2006, 11:18 AM
brilliant episode! Cant wait for the second half! It felt almost like a movie with the plot.

watcher652
September 24th, 2006, 11:37 AM
I love this episode.

Ok, so no big battle scenes. None of the Atlantis crew was being held hostage somewhere. No one is obviously dead.

But this is so much better. This episode kept with the season’s theme of getting to know the characters better. The writers dropped in little tidbits of those personal moments fans live for. The team was split apart, yet the characters bonded more here than in any other previous episode. And instead of waiting to be rescued, our team is doing the rescuing (we hope).

Long winded, running commentary thoughts:

The McKay-Carter Bridge. How did that get named? McKay said in a previous episode that it was Carter’s idea. She probably gave in so she wouldn’t have to hear McKay whine about it. Oh well, he did write the forwarding macros.

The Midway Space Station looked deceptively large. The Gates themselves aren’t all that big. A Puddle Jumper takes up most of the space when it goes through. There must be a bigger facility planned around that inner core we saw.

Is this the first time we’ve seen Atlantis in fog?

Landry so has O’Neill’s number. “You’re just mad you didn’t get to fly the maiden voyage yourself.” Ha! But what’s with Jack’s hair? It looks wrong.

Ancients and an Aurora class ship. Yeah, we’ve had such good luck with those. Love how McKay’s eyes just lit up when he contemplated all the questions he could ask the Ancients and the little hop as he ran off to make his list. I remember how his eyes lit up in “Hide and Seek” when he was explaining Ancients to Sheppard. But I knew McKay wasn’t going to get any questions answered. It’s like a running joke now. Ancients just won’t talk to us. The snobs.

Chuck! When will the gate tech sergeant get a name?

Elizabeth zipping up her jacket before meeting the Ancients.

How did McKay miss that control pedestal? Stupid Ancient database. Guess you had to specifically activate it or be a full Ancient, because how many times has Sheppard walked over that spot?

Woolsey gets to be the spokesperson for all of Earth? Wow. Loved the finger pointing. “You woke the Wraith.” “Well, you MADE the Wraith”.

O’Neill’s hair looks better here (I’m so shallow). Nice touch fiddling with his collar as if his starched shirt and tie were uncomfortable. O’Neill can so sympathize with Elizabeth. He knows what it’s like to lose your mission, your team.

When did that Atlantis expedition symbol appear behind Elizabeth’s desk?

Sheppard has Sudoku books! Although how could they possibly be a challenge for him? Loved how he just walked over his bed instead of around it. And, I didn’t realize it before, but Sheppard must have gotten different quarters than the one he originally had because the door is in a different place than in “Hide and Seek” and “The Gift”. It seems to be the room he had in “Conversion”.

Ronan can’t leave the Pegasus galaxy until ever last Wraith is dead. Such devotion to a cause! Loved his manly hug of picking up Sheppard to get him out of the way.

Aw, Teyla must have really taken to the popcorn first offered during the Hail Mary tape. A symbol of all the memories it invokes.

What’s that extra band Sheppard has around his right wrist along with his usual wristband? I’ve seen that before.

I just love Carson. Although he and Rodney seem to bear the brunt of the comedy relief for the show, Carson’s comments in this episode made you just want to hug the man. You just knew Carson was going to get all choked up leaving, not Atlantis, but his friends. If he’s got a job at the SGC surgery, does that mean he gets to continue with his genetics research?

Rodney admitting he’s going to miss saving the day. The genius has come a long way from passing out when the lights go out (oh, wait that was from manly hunger.)

The computers behind Rodney are marked “SGA”.

Do all the door chimes sound like that? And, wow, Elizabeth’s room is huge! I don’t know if it was the camera angle, but McKay’s quarters seemed so small in “Duet”. Cadman had a bigger room than McKay. Teyla had a bigger room. (Probably the same room redressed for all of them).

“Colonel”. “Doctor”. A nod to their roles, but they’ve been through too much together to be just titles.

Sheppard’s only a quarter through “War and Peace”. After 2 and a half years, he’s on schedule for a 10 year posting. Sheppard can quote from “The Princess Bride”? Ha!

Oh, look, Atlantis has at least one moon.

McKay, why tell these Ancients anything? They didn’t tell you squat. Did you just want to let them know it wasn’t your fault the grounding station is flakey?

Sheppard touching Teyla’s forehead goodbye. McKay’s soft “Bye” to Teyla and “Hi” to Sheppard. Elizabeth being the last to leave. Sniff!

What was Sheppard fiddling with as he walked through the gate?

Sheppard misses McKay on his team!

What happened to O’Neill’s hair again?

What’s that huge object behind McKay at Area 51? Looks like something that belongs in a nuclear reactor. With that rotating band around the core, a step or three ahead of a reactor. And you can call out with a cell phone from that place? Must be a secure connection. Rodney’s reconciliation with his sister Jeannie seems to affected the way he relates to the rest of his team, his “kind of a family, of sorts”. He actually admitted to Sheppard (Sheppard!) that he was lonely out at Area 51. All the cool science toys and simpering minions aren’t enough.

Carson is so caring. He’s the one to go to Elizabeth to check out how things were going with her once back on Earth. Maybe the “I’m not so great with this stuff” Sheppard and “She doesn’t return my calls” McKay asked him to go. After being the head of an expedition that’s gone through as much as the Atlantis expedition did, taking 6 weeks off to breathe doesn’t seem so strange to me.

A Carson tidbit: he comes from a family of 7 (hey, if David Hewlett can substitute Rodney having a sister in the “Hot Zone” script instead of the originally written brother, then Carson’s character can reflect the fact that Paul McGillion comes from a big family, although I think Paul comes from a family of 8. Isn’t he fifth of six siblings?). Is this the first time we’ve heard Carson call Sheppard “John?”

Elizabeth! How far you’ve come from that first season where the writers didn’t seem to know what to do with you. From your comment to Daniel in “The Pegasus Project” that you hoped to spend your lifetime getting to know Atlantis, to your reactions in “The Real World”, they writers have given us a look of the passion you have for The City.

Aw, dinner with friends! That’s just so great! Carson no longer seeing Cadman, and referring to the infamous kiss. Rodney eating like a kid with his bowl in his hand. (That reminded me of the sad scene from “Conversion” when Rodney was eating from a bowl when Elizabeth told the team that it was time to say goodbye to bug!Sheppard.) And talking with his mouth full. So Rodney.

Now this was clever. Carson doesn’t have his cell phone, so he doesn’t know that he hasn’t been called back to the SGC. So he goes back with the others. There wouldn’t have been a reason for him to be there otherwise.

Woolsey has a gun? Must be O’Neill’s. And firing it as if a gun could do anything to a Replicator.

McKay has the worse luck. The man is a genius, and it always comes back to bite him. It just doesn’t pay to be able to break security measures and rewrite the base code of anything. But, it’s not like he had any choice.

McKay wrote a back door to the shield program and didn’t tell anyone? Or did Sheppard and Elizabeth just forget?

McKay knows Dr. Lee is into World of Warcraft? Or did we just miss the part where Elizabeth got Dr. Lee to talk about his hobby and figured it out? Elizabeth has to use all her diplomatic skills to charm and distract Dr Lee from what McKay is doing. Is this the first time Dr. Lee has been addressed by his first name? Look, there’s his name on the screen just a few entries above where McKay inserted his own name.

Ooh! The team all geared up! Elizabeth has a gun!

If Carson had his hand on Wallace when Wallace got zatted, shouldn’t Carson be zatted too?

Siler got zatted! He was conveniently on the ramp and fell out of the way so he didn’t have to be dragged out of the jumper.

Carson has such a nurturing side that he bought some wee baby turtles to take care of since he’s allergic to cats and he didn’t think he could give a dog enough time. Aw!

Ladon! He does seem genuinely interested in Ronon’s and Teyla’s help to eliminating the Wraith.

Oh, John! “I’ll be damned if I’m going to let a bunch of Replicators take our home away from us.” Although, don’t these Replicators have a plan to eliminate the Wraith, as well as Atlantis? I don't know if that was just trash talk from the Asurans or not. When Atlantis is gone, they'll have to direct their aggression somewhere.

And that last scene with all the members that make up the heart of Atlantis, off to the rescue! Yes, if O’Neill and Woolsey are there to be rescued, then rescued they’ll be. But it’s the city that’s in trouble, it’s HOME, and dammit, our team isn’t going to let it go without a fight.

And I’m supposed to wait 6 months for the ending? ::whimper::

expendable_crewman
September 24th, 2006, 12:10 PM
Hey, if Sam were there she'd have joined them. Shipper or not, everyone knows that Jack and Sam are friends. She would have joined the mutiny to help rescue him, and that is probably why she (and the rest of SG1) wasn't in the episode. SG1 wouldn't let SGA rescue Jack alone. I think this probably played out just the way it needed to play out, but I really want to see Jack rescue Woolsey before the SGA team saves them both. I need to see a hero Jack moment. I've missed them.I did some soul searching on this one, because I really think Sheppard is facing real consequences this time. We actually don't know what's going to happen to him after he saves everybody. There are worse things than dying, in a *this is a TV sci-fi show* kind of way, like him losing his command and having to report to someone who makes his life miserable. Major Sheppard, anyone.

Whatever the writers do, I'm hoping there's no BIG reset button. It's not necessary for him to go home in handcuffs or anything but the guy is military and he stole expensive, irreplaceable technology.

So back to what Gate gal said. After watching the ep twice, I figured that nobody would be okay with what Sheppard did.

Nobody but Sam, Teal'c, Mitchell, and Jackson.

So Gate gal, I agree. If SG1 had been there, that Jumper would have been crowded.

Gate gal
September 24th, 2006, 12:34 PM
Oh, I really hope that he doesn't become Major Sheppard. That would be really disappointing, but it is possible. Wow, that is kind of a depressing thought. Hopefully, Jack will help prevent the SGA crew from getting in too much trouble. I think it is safe to assume that Jack is Head of Homeworld Security after this episode. Woolsey will probably be pretty grateful to Sheppard as well, so maybe there won't be any significant consequences. I guess Elizabeth's head could be on the chopping block, too. I hope they don't try to take Atlantis away from her. Oh, no, I don't want to wait until March!

scarimor
September 24th, 2006, 12:38 PM
I did some soul searching on this one, because I really think Sheppard is facing real consequences this time. We actually don't know what's going to happen to him after he saves everybody. There are worse things than dying, in a *this is a TV sci-fi show* kind of way, like him losing his command and having to report to someone who makes his life miserable. Major Sheppard, anyone.

Whatever the writers do, I'm hoping there's no BIG reset button. It's not necessary for him to go home in handcuffs or anything but the guy is military and he stole expensive, irreplaceable technology.

So back to what Gate gal said. After watching the ep twice, I figured that nobody would be okay with what Sheppard did.

Nobody but Sam, Teal'c, Mitchell, and Jackson.

So Gate gal, I agree. If SG1 had been there, that Jumper would have been crowded.
This scene reminded me very much of the SG-1 season 1 cliff-hanger Within the Serpent's Grasp when SG-1 defy Hammond's direct orders and gate away to stop Apophis and rescue Skaara. Hammond sends a team after them to bring them back for courts martial.

Of course their saving the world gets them off the hook. I imagine something similar could happen this time.

watcher652
September 24th, 2006, 01:16 PM
A Carson tidbit: he comes from a family of 7 (hey, if David Hewlett can substitute Rodney having a sister in the “Hot Zone” script instead of the originally written brother, then Carson’s character can reflect the fact that Paul McGillion comes from a big family, although I think Paul comes from a family of 8. Isn’t he fifth of six siblings?). Let me correct myself. According to imdb, Paul is sixth of seven siblings. My bad. A little more real life sneaking into SGA.

ShadowMaat
September 24th, 2006, 01:29 PM
Shep is gonna save Jack and in return Jack is gonna save Shep's career. God forbid there should be consequences. ;)

Linzi
September 24th, 2006, 02:00 PM
There won't be any consequences for Sheppard. There never were for O'Neill, were there? I personally think he and the others did the right thing. Screw the military lot, lol!

full zpm
September 24th, 2006, 02:01 PM
My thoughts:

I don't agree with Sheppard disobeying the orders in the form that it happened. I think he is, in the first place, a member of the US AIR FORCE and it seems do me he is very proud about this, why, then, does he insist in disobeying every single order that he desagrees? This is not the right thing to do. He is de Military Comander of Atlantis, yes, but in the first place he is a member of de USMilitary. To defend Atlantis at all costs, in this case, shows that Sheppard put his personal fellings above the general interests of the Earth, that was being protected by USMilitary. When you belong to a team, you have to trust, like we saw when Sheppard said to Ronon not to shoot Michael "because he said so" (NML) and Ronon obeyed. I'd prefer if Sheppard had had the suport of his superiors, specialy Gen Landry. Or, that we could have seen, without doubts, that the decision of the USMilitary wasn't right, and I didn't see this.
I would like if someone could convince me of the contrary, because I can't see a hero's attitude in this specific case.

Easter Lily
September 24th, 2006, 02:33 PM
Well, this is a far better half of a two-arter than SG-1's. It feels like there is some story to be told on the other side.And it's a two-parter that hangs us on an up-note, i.e. one of anticipation, rather than mere jeopardy.

I think this is what I meant by lowkey... You've said it well. :)

This was an episode that didn't rely on explosions and gimmicks... just a lot of solid character interaction and decent storytelling.

Diesel Vanilla
September 24th, 2006, 02:55 PM
AWESOME!

Awesome episode! Brilliantly written and a great set-up for part 2!!! I was so tense watching that episode that when I got up to turn up the volume I didn't sit back down again for what must have been 20 minutes!!! The lead characters were awesome... great banter between them, some very funny moments but was so painful to see them leaving SGA! Was great seeing them Sheps, Weir, Becks and McKay in SGC (in a non-nanovirus induced way!). Those four characters show how well the sense of team has developed in this show!

Brilliant brilliant episode and easily in my top 3 of best SGA eps!!! It's gonna hurt waiting for part 2!!!

:ronananime01:

Maxum
September 24th, 2006, 03:16 PM
The episode was very so-so.

The only really interesting part was the goodbye scenes between the characters, and those weren't long at all. Other than that, it was a lot of rip-off plots from SG-1. Been there, done that. Everything from defying orders, to breaking up the team, to the arrival of the replicators, etc. Also, wouldn't the arrival of Ancients to the city of Atlantis have sent a buzz throughout the SGC that could have powered NYC? It was depicted as a non-issue.

I completely disagree with the reasons for the gang to disobey orders and go back to Atlantis. Namely, because they weren't going to save Earth or any other planet. They were going to save their base of employment. Yes, they could argue that they were going to save Jack, but we know that it wasn't the reason. They wanted to save Atlantis. Period. It makes them look like pouting children, especially Weir. This is the commander of Atlantis?

RDA was completely wasted in this episode, but it didn't bother me as much because I don't feel he really belongs in the "Atlantis" world. It was definitely stunt casting, and it showed. I mean, Jack O'Neill has absolutely no connection to any single person on Atlantis, and as a result, his impending danger didn't resonate with anyone the way it would have had it been SG-1.

I enjoyed the small scenes with Sheppard, McKay, Ronon, etc., but I just feel like Atlantis is very much the sister show of SG-1.

Overall, I'd say it was a 5/10.

PG15
September 24th, 2006, 03:28 PM
Don't forget, there's still a lot of value left in Atlantis herself. Sure, we haven't seen much of exploration and all that other stuff, but this is the home of the Ancients! From it we've learned about the Ori weapon, puddle jumpers, and a bunch of other goodies.

And there's more where those came from. We can't afford to loose it.

prion
September 24th, 2006, 03:51 PM
My thoughts:

I don't agree with Sheppard disobeying the orders in the form that it happened. I think he is, in the first place, a member of the US AIR FORCE and it seems do me he is very proud about this, why, then, does he insist in disobeying every single order that he desagrees? This is not the right thing to do. He is de Military Comander of Atlantis, yes, but in the first place he is a member of de USMilitary. To defend Atlantis at all costs, in this case, shows that Sheppard put his personal fellings above the general interests of the Earth, that was being protected by USMilitary. When you belong to a team, you have to trust, like we saw when Sheppard said to Ronon not to shoot Michael "because he said so" (NML) and Ronon obeyed. I'd prefer if Sheppard had had the suport of his superiors, specialy Gen Landry. Or, that we could have seen, without doubts, that the decision of the USMilitary wasn't right, and I didn't see this.
I would like if someone could convince me of the contrary, because I can't see a hero's attitude in this specific case.

In television, yes, the hero will 'buck the rules' to save the day. It's been a perpetual part of TV heroes for decades. While the rest of us would be a) put in jail, b) courtmartialed, c) killed, they survive. They do what we would LOVE to do but we know we'd get nailed.

The thing is, SG1 set the precedence with Jack doing precisely the same thing. It must be something that happens at hte SGC. End of world (or base) coming, heroes told to sit on their butt and twiddle thumbs, and they won't.

rich8511
September 24th, 2006, 04:14 PM
This scene reminded me very much of the SG-1 season 1 cliff-hanger Within the Serpent's Grasp when SG-1 defy Hammond's direct orders and gate away to stop Apophis and rescue Skaara. Hammond sends a team after them to bring them back for courts martial.

Of course their saving the world gets them off the hook. I imagine something similar could happen this time.

If it does then it's pretty lame... I understand letting SG1 off the hook - they saved the freaking world! But, now we have Sheppard (the only one who really had orders to follow) going off to save Atlantis, which isn't even ours anymore.

I loved the last half of the episode, but the first half I thought was horribly written. It moved way too fast.. these people show up on a ship magically in the middle of space where our sensors can pick them up - we let them on Atlantis, they activate some panel, and thats all they need to do to prove that they are ancients. Then, we just give up and go home.

I loved the final scene, though.. it was awesome!

Ltcolshepjumper
September 24th, 2006, 04:16 PM
It was rushed, just like SG-1's mid-season two parter. I guess that's what happens when you have a great plot that can only be shown in 45 minutes.

Candy
September 24th, 2006, 04:21 PM
Sheppard got to use a zat gun!

SimilarCadence
September 24th, 2006, 05:58 PM
I suggest taking them as what they are: just rumors. :P There was a rumor that Ford would be in Allies. I didn't see him, did you? ;)


Yes, you're right---a rumor is only a rumor.....but I'm still not happy about it.:beckettanime12: ;)

VOOK
September 24th, 2006, 07:10 PM
Anyone got a summary or a link to one?

NotAscended
September 24th, 2006, 07:42 PM
In television, yes, the hero will 'buck the rules' to save the day. It's been a perpetual part of TV heroes for decades. While the rest of us would be a) put in jail, b) courtmartialed, c) killed, they survive. They do what we would LOVE to do but we know we'd get nailed.

The thing is, SG1 set the precedence with Jack doing precisely the same thing. It must be something that happens at hte SGC. End of world (or base) coming, heroes told to sit on their butt and twiddle thumbs, and they won't.

It's something in the jello they serve. :)

The heroes-disobeying-orders-without-repercussions is staple of TV because it's what we want to see. As you said much better, they do what we want to do but can't. Also, we don't see repercussions not just because it would make later stories really hard to write (e.g., following Sheppard as he peels potatoes in a military prison), but also because we are supposed to see our heroes as serving a higher purpose and willing to do what's necessary, even if it means going against orders. In this case, it's about saving O'Neill and Woolsey (the never leave a man behind credo) as well as saving one's home from nuclear detonation.

Actually, given the importance the SGC and IOC have placed on having Atlantis and learning from it, I'm surprised that they didn't try to mount a rescue/recapture effort as Plan A, with the nuke as Plan B.

Descent
September 24th, 2006, 07:51 PM
I mean, Jack O'Neill has absolutely no connection to any single person on Atlantis, and as a result, his impending danger didn't resonate with anyone the way it would have had it been SG-1.

Wow. I completely disagree. Because of Jack, Sheppard was able to join the expedition and get involved with the Stargate program in the first place. Jack was also the one who gave Weir the go into the Pegasus and was one of the few who had confidence in her in the first place.

We've seen SG-1 worry about Jack in danger, its been done to death. Let him interact with the other characters so he'll develop other said connections (especially considering that you think he "has none").

Mitchell82
September 24th, 2006, 08:01 PM
I thought this was an awesome episode and I have read some people not liking RDA'a performance and I agree he's not the gung ho hero, but he's not a combat officer anymore and I love it when he want's to go into action and he's told no. I thought his perfrmance was verry good though. He's more of a diplomat now and he's never been good at that and they made it clear Oneill was uncomfrotaable. I however loved his apperance in all the shows so far and I bet he will kick ass in part 2. I loved all parts of this ep Great team interaction, great story, great music, everything was grreat overall IMO.10/10 and can't wait for part 2. I know RDA will kick some replicator butt, there is no way he wouldn't considering he's a hostage.

Mitchell82
September 24th, 2006, 08:02 PM
Wow. I completely disagree. Because of Jack, Sheppard was able to join the expedition and get involved with the Stargate program in the first place. Jack was also the one who gave Weir the go into the Pegasus and was one of the few who had confidence in her in the first place.

We've seen SG-1 worry about Jack in danger, its been done to death. Let him interact with the other characters so he'll develop other said connections (especially considering that you think he "has none").
Wow I agree 100%!

Galadriel167
September 24th, 2006, 08:15 PM
YAY! they gave Teyla a new shirt! Ronon gets a new coat every other week and teyla has been wearing the same shirt for a year.

Mefusta
September 24th, 2006, 11:08 PM
Rather good, indeed. Personal highlight was the excellent shot of Midway Station showing the Atlantis and Milky Way gates together for the first time and the Milky Way in the background. No particular reason why it was excellent, merely that it was a gorgeous and well choreographed CG shot.

Also of note, was it just me or did the end of the farewell scene in Shep's quarters, specifically the moment where Ronon gives Shep a bearhug, seem like an out-take? It just had that sorta vibe of them all laughing as if it was an off-the-cuff moment where everything had gone silly. That's not to say it wasn't a great scene and really great character moment, just that it seemed like the laughing was more genuine than usual.

Carl
September 25th, 2006, 06:32 AM
An absolutely brilliant episode in which so many wonderful things happened to keep you fixed on the screen the entire time! Has earned its place among my favourite Atlantis episodes... and Stargate episodes... of all time!!

Descent
September 25th, 2006, 07:04 AM
I think this episode definately would've worked as a Series finale if it had to.

Jeffer
September 25th, 2006, 07:06 AM
it was a great ep but i would like to know how that macro works does every gate in the network Turn around because thats the only way it would work

FoolishPleasure
September 25th, 2006, 07:45 AM
YAY! they gave Teyla a new shirt! Ronon gets a new coat every other week and teyla has been wearing the same shirt for a year.
Yeah, Ronon gets a full coat, but Teyla still looks awfully chilly with that skimpy top, new or not. ;)

Descent
September 25th, 2006, 08:01 AM
Yeah, Ronon gets a full coat, but Teyla still looks awfully chilly with that skimpy top, new or not. ;)

Remember with Teyla, it has to be skimpy. Seven of Nine syndrome. Never let it down. :rolleyes:

Carson sure did have a lot of moments in this episode, makes me happy they're giving Paul more material. :beckett:

prion
September 25th, 2006, 08:42 AM
It's something in the jello they serve. :)

The heroes-disobeying-orders-without-repercussions is staple of TV because it's what we want to see. As you said much better, they do what we want to do but can't. Also, we don't see repercussions not just because it would make later stories really hard to write (e.g., following Sheppard as he peels potatoes in a military prison), but also because we are supposed to see our heroes as serving a higher purpose and willing to do what's necessary, even if it means going against orders. In this case, it's about saving O'Neill and Woolsey (the never leave a man behind credo) as well as saving one's home from nuclear detonation.

Actually, given the importance the SGC and IOC have placed on having Atlantis and learning from it, I'm surprised that they didn't try to mount a rescue/recapture effort as Plan A, with the nuke as Plan B.

Yeah, I think what will happen is that O'Neill, who ranks higher than Landry, he's in charge of Homeworld Security, right? is going to say "Sheppard saved Atlantis, just leave it at that, etc." and maybe even Woolsey will back Sheppard and the IOA will go, well, okay, but just this once!

Carl
September 25th, 2006, 09:07 AM
Yes, I think that considering O'Neill's history as leader of SG-1, he'll certainly be sympathetic towards Sheppard and the other members of the team for what they did.

mentalmichael
September 25th, 2006, 10:00 AM
I thought this was a great ep. Much like "The Storm", it was clearly there to set up the next and probably superior second part, but it did this with skill. I thought the scenes with them back on Earth were touching, and I'm not surprised to see that out of all of them elizabeth had the hardest time letting go - she was in charge of the most advanced city in history after all! I was actually quite surprised that the Ancients proved to actually be Ancients - I assumed that they were replicators trying to sneak into the city, and was happy to be proven wrong. I also like the way we see the Lanteans' arrogance contributing to their downfall.

As for the ending, I liked it - I couldn't help but flash all the way back to the SG-1 series one finale, with the team defying orders to save their home.

Thank God I live in England - we won't have to wait as long to see the next part!

Descent
September 25th, 2006, 10:38 AM
Thank God I live in England - we won't have to wait as long to see the next part!

Oh sure, rub it in for us American folk. :P

ilovedanieljackson
September 25th, 2006, 10:45 AM
I missed part of the episode (but will catch the rest later), but all I could think of was "So when did Linea/Ke'ra become an ancient?" :cool:

I know! I was quite confused by that! I guess it's like Brandy Ledford's Zarin/Norina ("Endgame"/"Inferno"). That was a little strange, too.

BubblingOverWithIdeas
September 25th, 2006, 11:38 AM
I know! I was quite confused by that! I guess it's like Brandy Ledford's Zarin/Norina ("Endgame"/"Inferno"). That was a little strange, too.

And Courtenay J. Steven's Lt. Elliot/Keras.

mizzoueng
September 25th, 2006, 11:51 AM
it was a great ep but i would like to know how that macro works does every gate in the network Turn around because thats the only way it would work

It doesn't matter which way the ones in between are facing. The only ones that matter are the ones at the entry points, Earth and Atlantis, and the ones at the mid way point. As you never physically exit the gate, but are just stored in a buffer, it doesn't matter. you will get passed along to the next gate even if its facing the wrong way.

Candy
September 25th, 2006, 04:37 PM
Rodney and his great big lab!

Maxum
September 25th, 2006, 05:06 PM
Wow. I completely disagree. Because of Jack, Sheppard was able to join the expedition and get involved with the Stargate program in the first place. Jack was also the one who gave Weir the go into the Pegasus and was one of the few who had confidence in her in the first place.

Yeah, but Jack O'Neill has no bond or real friendship with either Sheppard or Weir. That's what I'm saying. Jack certainly helped put Sheppard and Weir on Atlantis, but these people are not personal friends. They are acquaintances, imo. Nothing more.



We've seen SG-1 worry about Jack in danger, its been done to death. Let him interact with the other characters so he'll develop other said connections (especially considering that you think he "has none").

I agree with you that he should interact with other characters, but that didn't happen in this episode. He had one scene with Weir where he basically reassigns her. They could have allowed Jack to connect with a few of the other characters, and they missed the opportunity. It would have been fun for him to have some banter with Sheppard or the others. It didn't happen. He was seen bargaining with the Ancients. Since when has Jack ever been sent on a diplomatic mission and with the Ancients, no less? Diplomacy? Jack O'Neill??? The writers should have allowed Jack to really mingle with the people on Atlantis.

CalmStorm
September 25th, 2006, 05:22 PM
Yeah, but Jack O'Neill has no bond or real friendship with either Sheppard or Weir. That's what I'm saying. Jack certainly helped put Sheppard and Weir on Atlantis, but these people are not personal friends. They are acquaintances, imo. Nothing more.

I have to disagree on this. Weir was head of the SGC for a brief period and at the same time got a crash course in the stargate program. I was under the impression that she read through all of the mission reports she could.

At the end of New Order,
..she handed over control of the stargate program to O'Neill while she accepted the position in Antartica to head the search for Atlantis. At this time, she gave him, what I thought to be a very heartfelt thank you, and acknowledged all he had done at great risk time and again to himself. She recognizes all he has done and I think has a great deal of respect for him.

At the same time, we know from several references from Sheppard that he too is reading through as many SG mission reports as he can. One can only imagine that he must see the similarities between him and O'Neill and that he recognizes all that O'Neill has done. To add to it, yes O'Neill was the one who gave the okay for Shep to join the mission and even pushed him to do so on the chopper ride back.

I wouldn't say that they are just acquaintances and nothing more. The stargate progam is a secret that they cannot share with the rest of the world. Those involved with the stargate program risk their lives and at the same time are in on the greatest adventure no one could imagine. I think there is a bond simply in that, and that no one, no matter what the position or how small the role, will never be just an acquaintance.

Maxum
September 25th, 2006, 05:46 PM
I have to disagree on this. Weir was head of the SGC for a brief period and at the same time got a crash course in the stargate program. I was under the impression that she read through all of the mission reports she could.

What does that have to do with being friends with O'Neill? She may KNOW him, but she's not friends with him.


At the end of New Order,
[SPOILERS]..she handed over control of the stargate program to O'Neill while she accepted the position in Antartica to head the search for Atlantis. At this time, she gave him, what I thought to be a very heartfelt thank you, and acknowledged all he had done at great risk time and again to himself. She recognizes all he has done and I think has a great deal of respect for him.

Again, I'm not sure the point you're trying to make. They are acquaintances, and I agree that they have respect for each other. I don't see a deep friendship between them. Do you?


At the same time, we know from several references from Sheppard that he too is reading through as many SG mission reports as he can. One can only imagine that he must see the similarities between him and O'Neill and that he recognizes all that O'Neill has done. To add to it, yes O'Neill was the one who gave the okay for Shep to join the mission and even pushed him to do so on the chopper ride back.

Reading through mission reports is not the same as having an actual relationship.


I wouldn't say that they are just acquaintances and nothing more. The stargate progam is a secret that they cannot share with the rest of the world. Those involved with the stargate program risk their lives and at the same time are in on the greatest adventure no one could imagine. I think there is a bond simply in that, and that no one, no matter what the position or how small the role, will never be just an acquaintance.

I'd say they were just acquaintances. I haven't seen any scenes or dialogue between Jack, Weir or Sheppard that would indicate otherwise. Their encounters are friendly and polite, but nothing more.

Frankly, it's okay that O'Neill has no deep frienship with these characters. That's kind of what I was looking forward to seeing in The Return. I wanted to see Jack interact with the Atlantis characters and start to BUILD a relationship with them. Oh well.

Maybe that will be seen in Part 2. I haven't given up on Atlantis yet.

CalmStorm
September 25th, 2006, 05:58 PM
What does that have to do with being friends with O'Neill? She may KNOW him, but she's not friends with him.



Again, I'm not sure the point you're trying to make. They are acquaintances, and I agree that they have respect for each other. I don't see a deep friendship between them. Do you?

I made no mention of them being friends or even that they had a deep friendship. My post wasn't even heading in that direction. The point I was making is that I would consider them more than mere acquaintances.

So basically what we have learned is that you consider them mere acquaintances and I do not. You have listed your reasons, I have listed mine. I'll just agree to disagree on this particular issue. :)

Candy
September 25th, 2006, 06:32 PM
I like the scene where sheppard is playing with is toy airplanes when talking on the phone with rodney.:)

Mitchell82
September 25th, 2006, 07:24 PM
Heh. Rewatching and had a random thought - none of Elizabeth, John or Rodney have an annoying tune on their mobile phones? Just standard type ringtones, every one of them... now come on, you're not tell me that McKay at least wouldn't have the Star Wars theme tune or something on his mobile?!! :D :D
I figured he'd have "Cant Touch This" or "I'm to Sexy":D

Mitchell82
September 25th, 2006, 07:26 PM
Someone said that Oneill needed to be in combat dress and not his dress blues, well that makes no sense as he wasn't going into combat he was going on a diplomatic mission.

Mitchell82
September 25th, 2006, 07:27 PM
I also thought this was an excellent episode all around. When they went throgh the gate and it said "to Be Continued" I literally screamed NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! Damn six month hiatus!

MB.Eddie
September 26th, 2006, 02:21 AM
Quite a good ep. That ancient ship was interesting. I wonder what will become of it...

I didnt like the way they used Oneill though. He isnt really a negotiator, as is evident through all the SG1 eps. Its not his character.

I also didnt think that the Ancients would be so eager to kick the team out. Its a big city for just a few to look after, and things would have no doubt changed since they were gone.

I hope that the Asuran's didnt destroy all the Lateans and the the bulk of the city.

I dont have a problem with Sheppard and his team going to save the city, as SG1 has done it several times. It would be nice though if the military took it more seriously, and put Sheppard back to Major for it.

Look forward to seeing the 2nd part :)

Descent
September 26th, 2006, 02:24 AM
I agree that this episode is a lot like "The Storm" from Season 1. Its a whole lot of good setup. All the great payoff is just waiting for us in Part 2. :sheppard:

Sela
September 26th, 2006, 08:26 AM
Also of note, was it just me or did the end of the farewell scene in Shep's quarters, specifically the moment where Ronon gives Shep a bearhug, seem like an out-take? It just had that sorta vibe of them all laughing as if it was an off-the-cuff moment where everything had gone silly. That's not to say it wasn't a great scene and really great character moment, just that it seemed like the laughing was more genuine than usual.
It did seem like it was a completely unscripted (although very nice) moment. Maybe it was one of those things where the actor (Jason) improvised and everyone else (Joe, Rachel) went along with it. I thought it was a very touching moment and one of the best team moments for SGA.

prion
September 26th, 2006, 08:34 AM
I figure that (okay, based off spoiler info for the second half)

They get at least one if not more functioning ZedPMs for the base
The Ancients are all dead (the spoilers said this)
The Ancients' ship - probably blown up. I mean, letting us have a great functioning Ancient warship? ain't gonna happen...

Linzi
September 26th, 2006, 08:37 AM
It did seem like it was a completely unscripted (although very nice) moment. Maybe it was one of those things where the actor (Jason) improvised and everyone else (Joe, Rachel) went along with it. I thought it was a very touching moment and one of the best team moments for SGA.
I agree!

Descent
September 26th, 2006, 10:11 AM
I thought it was a very touching moment and one of the best team moments for SGA.

It was! :ronan: Theres been a lot of them this season and I'm very glad for that.

PG15
September 26th, 2006, 03:13 PM
I figure that (okay, based off spoiler info for the second half)

Uh...spoiler code?

PJ01
September 26th, 2006, 08:35 PM
Long time guest first time poster.

I think this episode was a killer it was almost everything a two parter should be, however since i live in Australia its a bit of a b##ch cause we havent even seen season 2 on free to air yet so i have to make do with what i can get from the net, world wide who will be the first to see part 2?

P.S top site guys.