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GateWorld
September 8th, 2006, 07:15 PM
<DIV ALIGN="center"><TABLE WIDTH="450" BORDER="0" CELLSPACING="0" CELLPADDING="7"><TR><TD><DIV ALIGN="left"><FONT FACE="Verdana, Arial, san-serif" SIZE="2" COLOR="#000000"><A HREF="http://www.gateworld.net/sg1/s10/1009.shtml"><IMG SRC="http://www.gateworld.net/sg1/graphics/1009.jpg" WIDTH="160" HEIGHT="120" ALIGN="right" HSPACE="10" VSPACE="2" BORDER="0" STYLE="border: 1px black solid" ALT="Visit the Episode Guide"></A><FONT SIZE="1" COLOR="#888888">SG-1 SEASON TEN</FONT>
<FONT SIZE="4"><A HREF="http://www.gateworld.net/sg1/s10/1009.shtml" STYLE="text-decoration: none">COMPANY OF THIEVES</A></FONT>
<FONT SIZE="1">EPISODE NUMBER - 1009</FONT>
<IMG SRC="/images/clear.gif" WIDTH="1" HEIGHT="10" ALT="">
Cameron Mitchell must go undercover inside the deadly Lucian Alliance to prevent his teammates from becoming casualties of an Alliance civil war.

<FONT SIZE="1" COLOR="#888888"><B><A HREF="http://www.gateworld.net/sg1/s10/1009.shtml">VISIT THE EPISODE GUIDE ></A></B>
SPOILERS! PHOTOS! AND MORE!</FONT></FONT></DIV></TD></TR></TABLE></DIV>

Lt. Colonel Ryu Gaia
September 15th, 2006, 07:02 PM
Wow, phenomenal episode. I honestly enjoyed every iota of it – and I loved the interaction between Teal’c and Mitchell. The very last few minutes were indeed clever thinking on behalf of Mitchell, and I liked the way they’ve developed his character. Carter was very nice, and I feel terrible for Emmerson. He was such a nice guy.

Overall: ****

Pharaoh Atem
September 15th, 2006, 07:03 PM
now this is what SG-1 should be great story good acting and sadly a sudden and sad death :mad: loved pissed off teal'c and cam did great.

Odyssey took a hell of a beating but overall solid episode had a season 9 feel to it

Descent
September 15th, 2006, 07:04 PM
This was a great episode, offered a very dark (and welcome) look inside the Lucian Alliance. Plus, the humor was just great. It will be interesting to see what this declaration of war on the Alliance will mean for the future.

9/10 from me

coolove
September 15th, 2006, 07:05 PM
This episode was better than I expected. I liked it.

jburrows
September 15th, 2006, 07:06 PM
Great episode.

DeathKneeler
September 15th, 2006, 07:06 PM
IMHO. I thought it was one of the better ones so far. Everybody did a great job and glad to see Teal'c lose that calmness for a change. Sam as always was awesome!!
DK

NowIWillDestroyAbydos
September 15th, 2006, 07:06 PM
Good episode, loved that scene at the end with Marks and Daniel. Sad Emerson got killed off. Now we officially have the record as "Longest Running SciFi Show in American History," Stargate SG-1 203 episodes, The X-Files 202 episodes.

Next weeks looks awesome.

Anubis8886
September 15th, 2006, 07:09 PM
WOW
that was a great episode, great acting, storyline, im starting to like vala more
seeing inside the lucian alliance was cool, and showing the depeth of one of SG-1's enemies
:cameron: :tealc: :sam: :daniel: :vala:
keep up the good work sg-1

chazevelt
September 15th, 2006, 07:09 PM
:) Loved it. Love 'em all. Good work, cast & crew!

Skydiver
September 15th, 2006, 07:16 PM
better than i expected. little too much super cambo saves the day, but it could have been a lot worse

at least the odyssey folks got to save themselves before the hewo came in and saved the day

I find it really, really funny that netan lives in fear of ticking off the tauri, and earth could care less about them

Ace
September 15th, 2006, 07:17 PM
Loved to see Teal'c get angry about being tortured!! I know I would be...

Ace

Ace
September 15th, 2006, 07:18 PM
I find it really, really funny that netan lives in fear of ticking off the tauri, and earth could care less about them

Not anymore... We've declared war!

Ace

Dani347
September 15th, 2006, 07:20 PM
Warning: Insensitive and shocking comment about to be posted. When Emerson (?) got shot, I laughed. I knew he was going to get killed at some point, because of spoilers, although I didn't know it was this episode. But, with the shows love of big explosions (especially being on a ship) and cgi sparks and stuff, I never expected something so simple as getting shot. Yes, I'm a mean, evil, wretched person. Still laughed.

Why was Sam on the ship in the first place? I missed the explanation.

The typical Stargate recipe now? Team must always split up along these lines - Daniel and Vala. Mitchell and Teal'c. Sam alternating between one or the other pair, depending on the episode. Garnish with some Teal'c torture. Bake and serve. So nice to have consistancy, isn't it? (Where's that sarcasm smilie when you need it?) Yeah, yeah, yeah. I know the comments I'm going to receive about this little section of my post. I'm just being controversial all the way around with my bad self.
I was surprised to find out that it was really Mitchell at the end. I'm assuming I was supposed to be surprised, so that was good.

The episode felt unfinished to me. It was about 2 minutes to the end when I checked the clock, and I was thinking there was at least half an hour worth of things to put in. I don't know what, exactly, but it just seemed like half an episode.


Let the whapping commence.

Uh, hold that whapping. I know Daniel was trying to stall when he started talking to Netan (?) but I don't get how it was supposed to work.

freyr's mother
September 15th, 2006, 07:21 PM
Nooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!! ******* PTB! How can they just take Emerson from us? I did like mitchell's whole thing with the reole chemical. That ep kicked ass! 12/10.

Arative
September 15th, 2006, 07:22 PM
Good episode. Great action, team building. Loved the look on Mitchell's face right before he beat that guy that was beating on Teal'c.

Emerson's death was unexpected, usually the secondary characters get off with a beating or something. Makes a good point about the Lucian Alliance, that they are ruthless and mean business.

Loved that Vala had some more to do this episode, shows she more that most people here give her credit for. She's developed into a really good character.

Earth is now fighting a two war front with only one ship, we better start building more and soon.

Racingtime
September 15th, 2006, 07:28 PM
I liked this episode. I think compared to last week's, this episode did a much better job of showing the team interacting as a team even when they weren't always together. I was a little wary about the description saying that Cam goes undercover to save everyone and I was instead pleasantly surprised in how they handled it (mainly in how they still managed to have Teal'c with him since I thought he'd be completely alone). Speaking of Teal'c, I was happy to see him express his feelings in regards to how he's been treated lately and hopefully he's given more of a break in future episodes. Cam did a good job of bluffing his way around there.

People who have read my posts lately know that I'm not happy with Daniel always being off with Vala instead of everyone else but I think they did a better job of putting them all together this week. I did laugh at the looks Mitchell and especially Daniel and Teal'c were giving each other in the beginning when Vala was telling them she could get them anything. I liked when Daniel and Vala got together with Sam and I am very happy that I didn't see any ship between Daniel and Vala in this episode. I also liked Daniel's reaction to stalling...it made me think of the episode in the past where he stalled by saying they were the great and powerful Oz. I thought it was funny that he was corrected that it only took a button to be ready and that he admitted he'd only said it because he thought that was what he was supposed to do. You know I enjoy seeing how the military has gained influence on Daniel over the years but I still like to see reminders on the ways he's not completely military. I also enjoyed seeing Daniel hiding behind his hands when thinking they were going to shoot. Have to say that SG-1 and the other prisoners lucked out a lot in this episode given how many times they did something and had to leave it completely up to chance that the plan would work.

I was sad to see Emerson go and all I can say about that is they had better not kill off Bra'tac.

Skydiver
September 15th, 2006, 07:29 PM
best line of hte night

'i tire of this torture cam mitchell' (yeah, so do a lot of the fans)

cheese ball line of the night...and i'm talking cringable cheesy 'damn you cam mitchell'

puhleese. that line was....oh so bad

and, can we PLEASE get the kids scrambled up a bit? like Dani said, i'm getting sick and bored with d/v for the comedy, t/c for the 'studliness' and sam there to be the exposition girl. explore something different please

Dani347
September 15th, 2006, 07:32 PM
cheese ball line of the night...and i'm talking cringable cheesy 'damn you cam mitchell'

puhleese. that line was....oh so bad




Oh, so not just me. Cringe worthy.

I also didn't like the "I screwed up" line. Not a bad line in itself, but I had no idea terminology like that was universal. He's a freaking alien. I mean an alien alien, and he phrases something in a way the average person out of Podunk would?

JanusAncient
September 15th, 2006, 07:33 PM
I really enjoyed this epsiode, why? Working backwards, Teal'c stating how tired he was of being tortured, funny, the lol kind, not the typical ha ha stuff.

From the beginning, the neutron star, now that was new, unique in Stargate. How they captured the ship, the mine field, the death of Emerson, got to ask why is Sam always crying, not always, but more than a hardened military person should, no?

Cam infiltration of the Lucian Alliance, well-done on his part, and the last statement about declaring all out war, very fun indeed.

Racingtime
September 15th, 2006, 07:36 PM
But, with the shows love of big explosions (especially being on a ship) and cgi sparks and stuff, I never expected something so simple as getting shot.

Heh, good point. I was sad to see him go but I liked that they did something as simple as that and was kind of surprised when they even shot him a couple of times extra "just in case".


The typical Stargate recipe now? Team must always split up along these lines - Daniel and Vala. Mitchell and Teal'c. Sam alternating between one or the other pair, depending on the episode.

As you could see from my post, I actually did like the team interaction this episode but at the same time, I agree with this too. I wish they'd switch off how they are paired up more too. Plus this shows the dangers of having an odd number team.


The episode felt unfinished to me.

While I liked seeing the four of them talk, I also thought it felt unfinished and strange and I was surprised when they faded to black at that moment.


Let the whapping commence.

No whapping from me. While I liked this episode a lot better than last, I still agreed with a lot of what you said.

e-dog
September 15th, 2006, 07:41 PM
Not bad at all.

Just because I like to squee, I must proclaim: Rudolf Martin played Anateo! AHHHHH!!! :D

If anyone watches NCIS, you may remember him. He's also had several other guest spots including one for CSI. Anyway, fangirl moment over. I'll stop promoting him.

Favorite scene: When Vala acquired the ship that was better at falling apart than "staying afloat", for lack of a better phrase. Kicking a panel to get the cloaking device to work was a nice, humorous touch.

The only thing I found to be rather interesting was how the original plan was to beam out Sam and God only knows what the next step would've been. Anyway, knowing the risks, you would've assumed that locking onto Anateo would've been the most logical choice in the first place. Why risk Sam's life when one could just beam the bad guy to. . .I dunno, inside the hull?

Although, the way it was written, it was still pretty funny. I'm not really complaining, I don't think. Heh, just thought it was interesting nonetheless.

Skydiver
September 15th, 2006, 07:41 PM
Oh, so not just me. Cringe worthy.

I also didn't like the "I screwed up" line. Not a bad line in itself, but I had no idea terminology like that was universal. He's a freaking alien. I mean an alien alien, and he phrases something in a way the average person out of Podunk would?
yeah, that grated as much as teal'c using 'intel'

teal'c does NOT use abbreviations. (other than zat), he would have said intelligence

imho, the alien shoudl have said 'i made a mistak, an error, a misjudgement'

aliens speak proper english, not slang. they're not from earth, thus can't know earth slang. you can't have the 'comedy' of vala not getting slang, then having aliens - especially aliens she's run across - knowing said slang

it's a contradiction

ToasterOnFire
September 15th, 2006, 07:41 PM
I tried, I really tried, but I thought that this ep was dull. :S Even with all the deaths, and the tension, and Mitch!savestheday! with seat of the pants tactics, I was bored through the whole thing. While I had my problems with MM, at least it kept my interest.

L.A. Doyle
September 15th, 2006, 07:54 PM
It was an alright episode. :)

Emerson no! *cries*

AT was awesome as always. Poor Sam. That had to be tough on her. I don't blame her one bit for being a little teary. She was angry, saddened, and frustrated.

Teal'c getting angry over the torture...priceless. I'm tired of it too.

The aliens that talked to much like Earthlings was a bit weird...and the chessy line Sky mentioned.

I'm glad everyone got some great scenes. I love Daniel in the commander's chair, though it makes me sad to think of Emerson. :(

Um...I'd like to see a Stargate when I watch 'Stargate', but this was better than I thought.

ShardsofGlass
September 15th, 2006, 08:01 PM
I am not fond of this episode. Hate the pairing up, like Dani mentioned. It's really tiresome and oh so predictable. Why was it that when Vala said she needed to take someone donw to the planet and mentioned Daniel, that Mitchell didn't say anything? Surely, the writers can let him be in charge of a small moment like that? And wouldn't it have made a lot more sense for Mtichell to go with her than Daniel? Or for her to just go alone? Gosh, that was contrived.

I hated Daniel trying to stall. THe humor seemed way out of line with the tone of the rest of the episode. I mean, he was sitting in Emerson's chair, the guy who'd just died earlier in the ep, and I didn't find anything funny at that moment. I also think MS totally overacted there, and a few other times in the ep. Usually, I think his comedy is spot on, but not here. It was like he was trying too hard.

Teal'c being tortured again?! Give me a break. This is way too predictable and boring.

I liked the way Mitchell disguised himself with the ring and how he was clever enough to talk his way into different situations, but I would've liked a little bit of stammering or dissembling as he had to figure out the right thing to say.

And the ending was way too abrupt. HTat's the problem wtih a lot of SG-1 eps. It feels like there's more story, but they ran out of time, so rather than trying to edit out other parts, they decide to just stop the ep. And they really did a disservice to Emerson this way. We really needed a moment for him and for the rest of the team to appreciate the fact that he'd just given his life.

I liked Vala and seeing her interact with her old thief buddy. I liked Sam's reaction to Emerson's death, and I was so glad she didn't cave to their demands this time.

I liked that Vala beamed out that bad guy into space, but I hated the flippant reactions from Daniel and her.

I liked the way Mitchell convinced the head Lucien guy to let him "torture" Teal'c and how he was ready to just cut and run but Teal'c convinced him to stay the course.

I liked that there was a twist to the ending, but I'm still confused about it. Those aliens all looked the same to me!

Overall, I'd give this ep about a 2 1/2 out of 5.

Dani347
September 15th, 2006, 08:01 PM
Um...I'd like to see a Stargate when I watch 'Stargate', but this was better than I thought.


What is this thing, Stargate, you speak of?

siXbrownSnakes2
September 15th, 2006, 08:04 PM
Meh.

The ending was a nice twist, although I figured that's what had to be happening. IMO, the episode had too many deus ex machinas, such as no one on the alien Ha'tak knowing what Netan looked like despite the fact that they all were working for him.

Whatever, better than last week. 7/10

Skydiver
September 15th, 2006, 08:06 PM
that round spinny thing?????

they can't afford it when they blow so much stuff up :)

oh, cudos to marks for the 'i'm always ready to fire, i just push this button'

LOL line

but emerson's 'set a course, hard right????' dude, what happened to starboard?? that's the proper ship term

the comedy at the end though, after so much drama and angst, it was jsut a sharp 180 turn. It almost seemed like the director - didn't catch whom - tried to tone down AM's tendency towards OTT'edness, but jsut got tired of fighting it and the silliness slipped in at the end

CCA
September 15th, 2006, 08:07 PM
So I missed the last two episodes and came back with this, and mannnnn I was not happy about Emmerson dying! I knew he was to go, I saw something about it and was not a happy camper...still not. I wanted him to pop up and go "trust me, that looked like it hurt but I am okay!"

Good episode, I'll end up saying the old tired stuff everybody else said but I enjoyed myself and glad I didn't miss this episode!

Skydiver
September 15th, 2006, 08:07 PM
Meh.

The ending was a nice twist, although I figured that's what had to be happening. IMO, the episode had too many deus ex machinas, such as no one on the alien Ha'tak knowing what Netan looked like despite the fact that they all were working for him.

Whatever, better than last week. 7/10
not to mention one of what? 4 aliens in the LA that know what cam looks like jsut happening to be the ones that beamed on board netan's ship

as the church lady would say 'isn't that conveeeennnniiiieeeennnntttttt'

Atlantean Engineer
September 15th, 2006, 08:12 PM
It was an ok episode I think. The pairing off of the team was a little contrived and old, but it wasn't terrible, just old. Sam's reaction was a little over the top. She should've just looked shaken, and then composed herself/got angry. That would've made more sense. I don't think even after years in the military and seeing people get killed, that you aren't shaken when someone is killed in front of you. But crying? That seemed out of place.

Daniel also wasn't all that funny on his stalling. I would've preferred that he did a better job rather than try to be funny.

And that gun going off in space? I don't care if Lucian Alliance guns work in space, he should've been dead within seconds of materializing in space, no time to think or fire his gun. He should've exploded, but that would've been gruesome. I would've liked something like this:
:daniel: Where'd you beam her?
:vala: I don't know, I thought I put him in the brig.
:daniel: Him? I thought we were getting Sam?
:vala: She said it might not work, so I beamed the other lifesign out of the room
*Pistol clunks against the window*
:daniel: . . . Yeah . . . good work.
:vala: *grins*

P.S. Comanders of Earth ships = Ensign on away team

bmicales
September 15th, 2006, 08:13 PM
Why was Sam on the ship in the first place? I missed the explanation.


SGC received intel that there was a second "supergate" and they went looking for it.

Kem Rixen
September 15th, 2006, 08:16 PM
I really did not like this episode, it mainly is because of those annoying aliens, reminds me far too much of space race. There were little nuggets in this episode that were quite good, but the rest seemed really predictable. The way Emerson was throughout his last bits looked like he was going to be killed off, I'm not sure whether to congratulate or not for that. In one sense the forshadowing is perfect, in another, it totally gave it away for me.

Also, I really would like to know how Mitchell managed to change what he looked like with the main annoying alien. I haven't seen the original episode were Daniel does this, so maybe it said how it works in that episode (The Fifth Man is related as well isn't it?), but this episode left no explanation whatsoever.

I can't wait until next week, maybe the ship episodes will be over (ship as in space ship and not shipping).

Descent
September 15th, 2006, 08:23 PM
I'm surprised at how many are bangin on this episode. This was really a breath of freah air for me after Memento Mori.

Arative
September 15th, 2006, 08:23 PM
not to mention one of what? 4 aliens in the LA that know what cam looks like jsut happening to be the ones that beamed on board netan's ship

as the church lady would say 'isn't that conveeeennnniiiieeeennnntttttt'

Not as convenient as the real Kefflin showing up! Surely after they went to the trouble of actually show what the real Kefflin looked like it crossed your mind that the real Kefflin would show up at some point. I know it crossed my mind!

meimei
September 15th, 2006, 08:23 PM
It was a good episode but what is with the killing off of recurring characters! Can't they kill redshirts instead of people we start getting used to? I mean, is the payroll too high when you use recurring characters! I'm still pissed about the other recurring they've killed in the last year, specifically Jacob/Selmak, Chekov and Pendergast.

TattertotLove
September 15th, 2006, 08:25 PM
This was an ok episode. I laughed alot in this episode.:)

the fifth man
September 15th, 2006, 08:29 PM
I'm surprised at how many are bangin on this episode. This was really a breath of freah air for me after Memento Mori.

Does it really surprise you? People bang on every episode for one reason or another.;)

Personally, I thought it was great. From start to finish. I too will miss Emerson, but stuff like that does happen. Especially considering how ruthless the Lucian Alliance appears to really be.

I also loved the use of the chemical first discovered in the SG-1 episode where I took my "name" from.:) I'd definitely give this ep a 10/10.

FerCryinOutLoud!
September 15th, 2006, 08:29 PM
I enjoyed the episode. It was fun and it was entertaining. It kind of reminded me of Star Trek The Next Generation when Daniel said, "On screen," from the command chair. I'm not a Treky but my grandpa was, and that's something i always remembered next to, "Engage!" always being said.

The guy that got beamed in space should have been dead instantly. I kind of rolled my eyes on that one.

I don't like it when Sam cries. It just doesn't do much of anything for me. I figured it was about time they get a new commander for the Odyyssey. That guy was in command too long, for someone in command of an Earth ship.

RIP Pendergaust and Emmerson. You're already probably drifting into obscurity. You will be missed.

About time Teal'c snapped from always bein tortured.

I can finally take the Lucian Alliance seriously now that i've seen they mean business and have little to no regard for anyone but they're own skins.

Vala reminds me more and more of a female Han Solo. I like her character, always have.

Good episode.

Seastallion
September 15th, 2006, 08:32 PM
I liked that Vala beamed out that bad guy into space, but I hated the flippant reactions from Daniel and her.

Flippant? :p He was a bad guy..! Should they have been weepy, or moody about it? "Jeez... I really didn't want to kill the bad guy that was about to kill my friend..." C'mon..! I would've been 'flippant' too. I especially loved the little wave at the end there. Hello! :D Buh-bye..! :p LOL

Overall, I really liked this episode. It is episodes like this that really make it a shame that the show was cancelled, and even more so if they can't find a way to continue the show by some other means. This thread of the show is worth more time, and yet I fear it won't get it. Having only 3 episodes left to make after the news of cancellation doesn't give them much time to finish it up.

I agree there were a few cornball things here and there, but it wasn't enough to get in the way of my enjoyment of the episode. As plotlines go, I can understand Vala wanting Daniel with her. After all, he is her paramour. :p Also, maybe she figures Daniel is the least threatening looking of the 3 guys. Maybe. :rolleyes: Anyways, I liked the show. Geez. :)

Maxum
September 15th, 2006, 08:32 PM
I thought it was a good episode, but with anything, it could have been better.

I agree that the team splits are getting overused: Daniel with Vala; Teal'c with Mitchell; and Sam tends to be on her own now. I know that the show stated that Landry/Mitchell like Daniel around to "handle" Vala, but I think the team has moved past that point. Also, why does SG-1 have to be separated at all? How often do we get to see all of them working towards one goal in ONE place? I don't understand why Daniel and Vala have to be in one place, Mitchell and Teal'c in another, and Sam in a third - or any of the the three combinations. Note to writers: You don't ALWAYS have to split up the team; it's okay to have them all work together in one space with one goal.

As for the episode, it was a good concept, but it was a little uneven. There should have been more of a reaction to the Commander's death. Sam's dialogue was more dramatic and tense; Daniel and Vala much less so, and Teal'c and Mitchell were actually the most consistent. Again, I don't like SG-1always separated. It jumbles the story too much.

I actually enjoyed the Daniel in the command chair, although I wish the writers wouldn't constantly make Daniel look like it's the first time he's ever done stuff. I wish they would write him more confident sometimes. I mean, he's been around the block far more than the rest of the men on that ship. I did like that Daniel was asking intelligent questions regarding the status of the ship before he spoke to Lucian Alliance, but once again, the writers bog him down in humor instead of seriousness.

Sam, as always was good, but I wish she had interacted with either Daniel or Teal'c more. Heck, even pair her with Vala would have been fine.

Vala was okay. Again, I like her better when she's more serious. I don't mind the glibness, but it was out of place for the dire straits that the ship and crew were in.

I think Mitchell and Teal'c were the most even of the team in terms of their reactions to their situations, the seriousness of their tone, and their "team" work.

Overall, it was a good episode, but is it me or are our ships very easy to hijack? 6/10

Racingtime
September 15th, 2006, 08:34 PM
I think the main thing that bothers me a little about Sam crying is that in Season 1 (or was it Season 2?) when they found Cassie, Sam only broke down crying when she was alone in the elevator. Before that, she actually said to Daniel that she sometimes forgot that he wasn't military when he expressed surprise over her saying that she couldn't let Cassie's situation get to her. So they used to be very good at showing that Sam was better at keeping her emotions in check because of her military training.

And yes, I have the episode on in the background and I still say I liked it but I do think part of that is influenced by how much I didn't care for Memento Mori so this week's was a definite improvement for me. While I still feel they did a better job with team interaction, I'm definitely agreeing with those that want it switched up more. I don't like Sam always by herself and it'd be nice to see the Daniel/Vala and Mitchell/Teal'c pairings split up more so we can have some variety. I think I'd especially like to see Daniel/Teal'c because they've had so little one on one lately.

ETA: I agree with Maxum that I'd like to see SG-1 not split up at all more often too.

Atlantean Engineer
September 15th, 2006, 08:43 PM
Overall, it was a good episode, but is it me or are our ships very easy to hijack?

Vala did it by herself, so it can't be that hard :p

Shipperahoy
September 15th, 2006, 08:48 PM
I wonder how they're ever going to get another commander of any ships they have or may come to have? Whoever takes that job has got to be one of the stupidest SOB's on the planet. I hope they get hazard pay. What does the job description say?

"Wanted: Experienced leader to command interstellar spacecraft. Bravery, leadership skills, and flight experience a must. Lack of will to live desirable."

Descent
September 15th, 2006, 08:48 PM
Does it really surprise you? People bang on every episode for one reason or another.;)

Yes, it seems nothing will please anyone these days. :rolleyes:

Tain
September 15th, 2006, 08:50 PM
yeah, that grated as much as teal'c using 'intel'

teal'c does NOT use abbreviations. (other than zat), he would have said intelligence

imho, the alien shoudl have said 'i made a mistak, an error, a misjudgement'

aliens speak proper english, not slang. they're not from earth, thus can't know earth slang. you can't have the 'comedy' of vala not getting slang, then having aliens - especially aliens she's run across - knowing said slang

it's a contradiction

Considering that when he said that, there were only aliens on the bridge, i think its prudent to assume whatever he said he did so in his native tongue. Hence the slangish familiarity.

FoolishPleasure
September 15th, 2006, 08:50 PM
Really enjoyed this episode. I haven't cared for the Lucien Alliance previously, but now we see how ruthless they are. Hated to see Emerson go, that was a bit of a shock. Enjoyed watching Vala kick and shove pieces of equipment to get them to work, and beaming the bad guy into space was priceless. Cam and Teal'c worked well together as well.

Gets a thumbs up from me. :)

L.A. Doyle
September 15th, 2006, 08:50 PM
So they used to be very good at showing that Sam was better at keeping her emotions in check because of her military training.


They used to be very good at a lot of things. The writing, IMHO, has slipped quite a bit lately. It's improving over S9 for the most part, so there's that. :)

I don't really mind that part with Sam. She is in the military, yes, but also human. And she wasn't bawling her eyes out in the corner. She showed a little Sam(and had every reason to if you think about it), then the rest of the episode she was Colonel Carter-a great leader doing her thing.

Dani347
September 15th, 2006, 08:51 PM
I agree that the team splits are getting overused: Daniel with Vala; Teal'c with Mitchell; and Sam tends to be on her own now. I know that the show stated that Landry/Mitchell like Daniel around to "handle" Vala, but I think the team has moved past that point. Also, why does SG-1 have to be separated at all? How often do we get to see all of them working towards one goal in ONE place? I don't understand why Daniel and Vala have to be in one place, Mitchell and Teal'c in another, and Sam in a third - or any of the the three combinations. Note to writers: You don't ALWAYS have to split up the team; it's okay to have them all work together in one space with one goal.

Yes, there should be times when the team is together for the majority of the episode instead of the 2/2/1 split. Also, you'd think they wouldn't want to rely on Daniel to keep Vala in line all the time if they feel that's necessary. What if there was a time when Daniel couldn't go off with her, and it had to be Teal'c or Sam or Mitchell? "Oh no! Whatever will I do? She's Daniel's responsibility! I can't handle her!!" *wrings hands in despair* Please.

Descent
September 15th, 2006, 08:54 PM
What if there was a time when Daniel couldn't go off with her, and it had to be Teal'c or Sam or Mitchell? "Oh no! Whatever will I do? She's Daniel's responsibility! I can't handle her!!" *wrings hands in despair* Please.

But thats just the point, she is Daniel's responsibility, no one elses. The only reason she is on the team is cause of his recommendation.

L.A. Doyle
September 15th, 2006, 08:57 PM
I got to see the new intro with Vala running after them up the ramp. That was cute. Can't believe I didn't notice it the first time. Oh yeah, that's cause I was on GW. :o

the fifth man
September 15th, 2006, 09:02 PM
I got to see the new intro with Vala running after them up the ramp. That was cute. Can't believe I didn't notice it the first time. Oh yeah, that's cause I was on GW. :o

I'm kind of ashamed I didn't notice it at first either. I'm glad they added that to the intro though.:)

Arative
September 15th, 2006, 09:02 PM
Anyone catch that Netan told the strange alien guy that he was the biggest fool in two galaxies?

I don't think he'd be talking about Pegasus since I don't think many people know about that galaxy yet. So does that mean the strange alien guy is from a different galaxy? And does the Lucian Alliance know howto get to different galaxies?

the fifth man
September 15th, 2006, 09:04 PM
Anyone catch that Netan told the strange alien guy that he was the biggest fool in two galaxies?

I don't think he'd be talking about Pegasus since I don't think many people know about that galaxy yet. So does that mean the strange alien guy is from a different galaxy? And does the Lucian Alliance know howto get to different galaxies?

I think he was just stating that as a means of saying the "strange alien guy" was that big of a fool. Nothing more. At least, that's how I took it.

Dani347
September 15th, 2006, 09:10 PM
But thats just the point, she is Daniel's responsibility, no one elses. The only reason she is on the team is cause of his recommendation.


And, I think that's stupid. Not you, the idea that they came up with that. (I totally cringed when Landry said that, and knew it was just a way of fusing the two of them together) You don't make one person the sole responsibility of another person. If Vala's going to be on the team, she has to be on the team, part of the team, and able to interact with all of the team, whether with Daniel there, or at times without (and not just when MS can't do an episode). Vala is not Daniel's babysitting charge or lapdog and he shouldn't always be the one holding the leash and carrying a newspaper if she's naughty. Aside from, the fact that the writers can contrive situations where they're always paired up, I think logically, there might come a time where it would make more sense for Vala to be with someone else. What if a problem happens and the combined talents of Vala of Mitchell, or Teal'c, or Sam would solve it, and Daniel would be put to better use working on something else somewhere else (ignoring that it would be splitting up again)? Would they make a weaker choice because she's Daniel's "responsibility"? I'm expecting Daniel to either cart Vala around on a leash or keep candy in his pockets to dole out to the little rugrat as he holds her hand across the street.

rarocks24
September 15th, 2006, 09:10 PM
Anyone catch that Netan told the strange alien guy that he was the biggest fool in two galaxies?

I don't think he'd be talking about Pegasus since I don't think many people know about that galaxy yet. So does that mean the strange alien guy is from a different galaxy? And does the Lucian Alliance know howto get to different galaxies?

Season 4, episode 2 (SGA): Old Enemies

Netan, desperate to get back into the good graces of the Lucian Alliance, launches a desperate plan to gain control of a Wraith Hive Ship.

suse
September 15th, 2006, 09:11 PM
Not as bad as I thought it would be. That snivelling alien coward at the end "Damn you, Cam Mitchell" just before blowing up was OOOOOOOTT though. So very bad sci-fi cliched.

Suse

Dani347
September 15th, 2006, 09:11 PM
I don't really mind that part with Sam. She is in the military, yes, but also human. And she wasn't bawling her eyes out in the corner. She showed a little Sam(and had every reason to if you think about it), then the rest of the episode she was Colonel Carter-a great leader doing her thing.


I didn't have a problem with it either, basically for the same reasons.

rarocks24
September 15th, 2006, 09:12 PM
And, I think that's stupid. Not you, the idea that they came up with that. (I totally cringed when Landry said that, and knew it was just a way of fusing the two of them together) You don't make one person the sole responsibility of another person. If Vala's going to be on the team, she has to be on the team, part of the team, and able to interact with all of the team, whether with Daniel there, or at times without (and not just when MS can't do an episode). Vala is not Daniel's babysitting charge or lapdog and he shouldn't always be the one holding the leash and carrying a newspaper if she's naughty. Aside from, the fact that the writers can contrive situations where they're always paired up, I think logically, there might come a time where it would make more sense for Vala to be with someone else. What if a problem happens and the combined talents of Vala of Mitchell, or Teal'c, or Sam would solve it, and Daniel would be put to better use working on something else somewhere else (ignoring that it would be splitting up again)? Would they make a weaker choice because she's Daniel's "responsibility"? I'm expecting Daniel to either cart Vala around on a leash or keep candy in his pockets to dole out to the little rugrat as he holds her hand across the street.

Yes, yes that was quite annoying.

One thing I don't understand why they didn't all just leave when Sam opened the bay.

Also, where did the Lucian Alliance get Tau'ri guns? Did they just decide, hey, these are better than Zatnikatels.

Shipperahoy
September 15th, 2006, 09:19 PM
I'm expecting Daniel to either cart Vala around on a leash or keep candy in his pockets to dole out to the little rugrat as he holds her hand across the street.

I've got this image in my head now of Daniel making those kissy noises people make when their calling their dogs and saying "C'mere Vala...c'mere...there's a good girl!".

memnarch
September 15th, 2006, 09:25 PM
I liked the episode. There were good moments for everyone. Daniel and Vala were once again stellar together. Carter's reaction to Emerson's death was heart-wrenching. Teal'c's anger was good to see. Mitchell's infiltration of the Lucian Alliance was a bit contrived, but it gave him some good stuff to work with. Even Major Marks had a good line "all I have to do is just press this little button..." Classic! However, that being said, I have a big problem with the Lucian Alliance in general. They seem to detract from the threat of the Ori, because since we've only seen them directly in about 3 or 4 episodes this season, it doesn't seem as if they're really invading if we don't see it happening. This makes them feel like filler, which I realize is going to happen from time to time, but still, it doesn't make the filler any more enjoyable. Why aren't they using Goa'uld weapons if they're on Goa'uld ships??? It doesn't make sense.

Overall, a nice episode, though not anything too special. **1/2 because of character moments.

Amakusa
September 15th, 2006, 10:02 PM
And that gun going off in space? I don't care if Lucian Alliance guns work in space, he should've been dead within seconds of materializing in space, no time to think or fire his gun. He should've exploded, but that would've been gruesome.

Despite popular opinion, humans don't explode in a vacuum.

majorsal
September 15th, 2006, 10:18 PM
just finished watching the ep. i liked it. :) not loved it, but enjoyed it enough.

first off, my fave part was the first few minutes when the LA took over the ship. it was series stuff going on there, including the murder of emerson. i thought the brutality of it was what made it work for me. sam 'is' good looking, so cliche' or not, some bad guy would hit on her at some point in her journeys. and, i thought the way emerson was killed was well done. how many times have we seen the bad guys 'tell' us what they're going to do, instead of actually doing anything? like i said, there was a brutality to it that i actually appreciated. i also liked sam's reaction when she was returned to the rest of the crew. she'd seen her friend and commander of the ship murdered in front of her, and she'd been forced to remove that whateverthinger under duress. i thought her reaction was understated and normal.

now what i wasn't too thrilled with was the daniel-vala stuff with the LA. i'm not a fan of the LA - written too earth thug like - and i'm really not a fan of vala-the-thief-rogue (ala the season 9 'ties that bind'). this part of the ep was too light hearted for what the rest of the ep was basically showing. just my taste, though.

i liked the series stuff in this ep more.

i also liked the mitchell stuff in the ep. i'm very much appreciating bb toning mitchell down.

so, the sam stuff was my fave (i know, surprising), but i've missed getting jazzy about sam's participation since all the changes.

on a scale of 1 to 10, with 10 being best: 6.






sally :)

Dani347
September 15th, 2006, 10:26 PM
sam 'is' good looking, so cliche' or not, some bad guy would hit on her at some point in her journeys.


I remember this subject has come up on the boards at least once before, maybe more. I thought it was an intimidation tecnique as well, and it would make sense that in all their travels, someone would try to use it on Sam, not merely because of her looks, but also just the fact that she's female.

o-0
September 15th, 2006, 10:45 PM
if stargate sg-1 was real, she wouldve been raped a long time ago by the baddies...
anyways, liked the episode, found the fx of the hatak explosion a little unrealistic
anyone notice that the odyssey's full stop sucks compared to a ship from star trek? it took more than 8 seconds for it to completely stop..and why did the hataks continue to fire on each other and not at the odyssey?

Fatewarns
September 15th, 2006, 11:07 PM
I love the fact that they overkilled Emerson

Quinn Mallory
September 15th, 2006, 11:30 PM
Interesting episode. Not great but entertaining. For a Cam being a hero episode, this is probably the best. Too bad the rest of the team had to suffer, especially Teal'c and Sam.

Also, too bad about Emerson

Kliggins
September 15th, 2006, 11:43 PM
Not bad at all.

Just because I like to squee, I must proclaim: Rudolf Martin played Anateo! AHHHHH!!! :D

If anyone watches NCIS, you may remember him. He's also had several other guest spots including one for CSI. Anyway, fangirl moment over. I'll stop promoting him.



Thank you, I missed the guest stars and was wondering. :)

Not a bad episode.

Damn you Cam Mitchell was pretty stupid.

I did like the I'm always prepared line.

KindlyKeller
September 16th, 2006, 12:07 AM
This episode was painful to endure. My friend finally agreed to watch both shows with me tonight to give them a chance, and there couldn't have been a worse one to try to bring her in with. Predictable, slow, grating... just basically bad on every level. And her comment: "So, basically, this is a lot like Star Trek?" Really. Can we see the Stargate once in a while?

Agent_Dark
September 16th, 2006, 12:15 AM
What the hell was up with Daniel this episode? I don't like at all the Daniel they had - quite frankly, he was annoying. It seems like he was meant to be the 'funny guy' this episode, but is just fell way flat. I thought we were over this childish act from Daniel towards Vala with that scene in Memento Mori (you know, where he's thanking her that she proved him right, that she could change her ways and fit into the team?), but he's gone right back to it.
Also, enough of the Vala/Daniel already. It's already made me dislike Daniel, please don't let it take down Vala as well. Because Vala is great, much improved characterisation, but it seems like they ruined Daniel's in the process. Lay off the Vala/Daniel, and give us more Vala/Rest of the Team.

So the Daniel and Vala/Daniel drew down what was an ok episode. The undercover Cam stuff was good, Sam was good, Vala (aside from the Vala/Daniel) was good, and Teal'c was good (but didn't have much to do)

Racingtime
September 16th, 2006, 02:45 AM
if stargate sg-1 was real, she wouldve been raped a long time ago by the baddies...

Well not necessarily. I have to say though that I'm glad they never went that route with Sam. Not only because I'd hate to see her have to go through that but also because I don't completely trust the writers to handle it considering how they never really dealt with the emotional effects of the SG-1 member who actually was raped.

david2708
September 16th, 2006, 02:48 AM
Daniel is simply paired with Vala all the time because they don't want Black & Browder too much together because of their days together on Farscape.

nccjones
September 16th, 2006, 03:19 AM
Great episode. I do have a couple of nit picks though. Why was Daniel in the Captain's chair? Hello? Where was the XO? There are other "military" who could take over. That one was a glaring mistake. Though, it was cute to see Daniel uncomfortable in the seat...lol.

I thought for sure this would be a Cambo episode, and it wasn't as bad as I thought. I found it believable that we have intel on who's who on the Allucian Alliance, and unless Mitchell was briefed on Katan (?), I'm curious how he knew about him. I mean, this guy is some super knowlegeable in a year and a half to know about every mission and everything about the Alliance, Jaffa and Goau'ld. Amazing.

Vala was great. We finally got to see her talents (both as a thief and understanding ship's systems) I loved the scene on the hatak as she kicked the consule to get the cloak working. I could actually see a series about that...lol.

I thought Sam was great in this episode. Her total shock at Emerson's killing and her grief later on. I wonder if she just grieving for him or all those that died before him over the years. At least that's what I'd be thinking. Kind of ashame there was no mention of him at the end of the show.

Daniel was good, still a little odd he was sitting in the CO's chair. But other than that, he was good with Vala.

Mitchell. Not bad, but still no where near my favorite. I could do without his know it all attitude and cockiness.

Teal'c....Man, I was hoping he'd go through with punching Mitchell just to get his frustration out....lol. I hope this means it's the end of "Teal'c in peril and Mitchell to the rescue" episodes.

Emerson...another great Captain killed. RIP.

nccjones
September 16th, 2006, 03:28 AM
best line of hte night

'i tire of this torture cam mitchell' (yeah, so do a lot of the fans)

cheese ball line of the night...and i'm talking cringable cheesy 'damn you cam mitchell'

puhleese. that line was....oh so bad

and, can we PLEASE get the kids scrambled up a bit? like Dani said, i'm getting sick and bored with d/v for the comedy, t/c for the 'studliness' and sam there to be the exposition girl. explore something different please

So in 100% agreement with you! I was waiting for Teal'c to go through with his punch...lol. And that "damn you Cam Mitchell" line was right out of a comic book...lol. As much as I like D/V together, I do want to see them mixed more.

nccjones
September 16th, 2006, 03:29 AM
Oh, so not just me. Cringe worthy.

I also didn't like the "I screwed up" line. Not a bad line in itself, but I had no idea terminology like that was universal. He's a freaking alien. I mean an alien alien, and he phrases something in a way the average person out of Podunk would?

Or how about when Mitchell said he was seeing a Therapist? I was like...what? They have therapists in space too?...lol

nccjones
September 16th, 2006, 03:35 AM
Ooohhh...I forgot to add....loved the last scene in the credits with the team going up the ramp and Vala coming in late and running up the ramp behind and Daniel waiting for her...priceless. Shame we only have 11 more epi's of seeing that.

SGFerrit
September 16th, 2006, 03:37 AM
considering how they never really dealt with the emotional effects of the SG-1 member who actually was raped.

Who was that? I can't remeber any of the team getting that done to them?

nccjones
September 16th, 2006, 03:40 AM
but emerson's 'set a course, hard right????' dude, what happened to starboard?? that's the proper ship term

Well, as a Navy person myself, I can't help but take a jab at the Air Force....they have no idea about ship terminology...just using hand signs on how to "bank" left or right. That has always been my beef about this show using only Air Force on the ships. It should be a Joint venture and in reality it probably would. The military is going to a more Joint concept as it is.

Zoser
September 16th, 2006, 03:59 AM
What is this thing, Stargate, you speak of?
I no longer feel as though I am watching Stargate.
It had the feel of reading a comic book - I've not seen anime and maybe that's what I mean.
For a comic book it was okay but a lot of whys.
Why was Carter on the ship?
Why was Daniel in the command seat? Surely there was some officer left on the ship who was more appropriate for that position.
Why do 'aliens' use American slang?
Why did Netan fall so readily for Mitchell disguise? When Daniel used the ring Lord Yu looked on him as a servant and mostly ignored him - here you would thing a persons actions, speach, body language would give him away.

Agent_Dark
September 16th, 2006, 04:07 AM
Why was Carter on the ship?
They thought they were going to be checking out the construction of a Supergate. Stands to reason that Carter would want to go to, since she's the only one that's been up close and personal with one before.

KatG
September 16th, 2006, 04:13 AM
Not bad at all.

Just because I like to squee, I must proclaim: Rudolf Martin played Anateo! AHHHHH!!! :D

If anyone watches NCIS, you may remember him. He's also had several other guest spots including one for CSI. Anyway, fangirl moment over. I'll stop promoting him.



That's who that was. And I just watched Twilight again a few weeks ago in reruns. Thanks.

As for the episode, not a bad one. I found Cam to be toned down some in this episode and more in control of himself. Teal'c was wonderful, and I too am tired of him being tortured.

I like that Sam didn't give in to the Alliance even thought it meant Emerson's life and that she stalled for time as much as possible. Also that she was the one to come up with the plan for them to take back the ship.

I liked that Sam/Daniel/Vala ended up on the Odyssey. Liked Sam/Vala working on the ship and Daniel stalling for time. Really happy that the Odyssey group was able to save themselves and didn't have to wait for Cam to ride to the rescue, in fact, they actually ended up saving Cam and Teal'c.

The whole thing seemed to have more of a team feel to it. So, I guess overall I liked this episode.

Zoser
September 16th, 2006, 04:19 AM
But thats just the point, she is Daniel's responsibility, no one elses. The only reason she is on the team is cause of his recommendation.
This is what I just don't get - if she can't be trusted she should not be on SG-1.
What was the last scene in MM all about? I though she earned it. I thought "it" was their trust.
Rip the damned patches off if you don't trust her.
Was the comment about foregoing her usual commission suppose to be a joke?

shockwave
September 16th, 2006, 04:34 AM
good episode
liked seeing the inner workings of the lucian alliance
that anatea guy was also in 24 season 1, as a photographer and an assassis impersonating him
RIP Emerson
Tenat is also dead, would have liked to see him interact with vala again though

swallowcliff
September 16th, 2006, 05:02 AM
Who was that? I can't remeber any of the team getting that done to them?


Wasn't Daniel raped in the first season, and all the concern he got was Jack saying "ewww"?

Albion
September 16th, 2006, 05:36 AM
I enjoyed the episode. It was fun and it was entertaining. It kind of reminded me of Star Trek The Next Generation when Daniel said, "On screen," from the command chair. I'm not a Treky but my grandpa was, and that's something i always remembered next to, "Engage!" always being said.

Which is precisely what's wrong with the show these days, imo. Star Trek clones I can get ten a penny. Stargate used to be a breath of fresh air precisely because it didn't use starships, handy transporter beams etc. It used to be about something different from all those other space operas out there. It used to be about a...now, let's think what was it called? Oh yeah...A STARGATE!!

If I want to watch ST:TNG I can haul out my DVDs. When I tune in to watch Stargate, I don't expect to see...well, this.

Albion

Crow T. Robot
September 16th, 2006, 06:10 AM
Wasn't Daniel raped in the first season, and all the concern he got was Jack saying "ewww"?

Let’s see

Jack was date raped in “Brief Candle”

Daniel was (implied) raped in “Need” and then without a doubt in “Hathor”

The writers handled it terribly every time. The only reason they got away with handling it the way they did was because they did it to Jack and Daniel and not Sam.

Crow T. Robot
September 16th, 2006, 06:18 AM
And, I think that's stupid. Not you, the idea that they came up with that. (I totally cringed when Landry said that, and knew it was just a way of fusing the two of them together) You don't make one person the sole responsibility of another person.

Because it is cringe worthy. Realistically Daniel would NOT be handed responsibility for Vala in a top secret military facility because..

1) He’s a civilian.

2) He’s male. If anyone would have been handed responsibility for Vala it would be Sam. That way there would no possibly questions of prisoner misuse or abuse.

Landry they wrote so stupid just to fuse Daniel and Vala together I flinch.

keshou
September 16th, 2006, 07:04 AM
More entertaining than I expected and I especially liked Mitchell (I just have trouble calling him Cam) and Teal'c in this one.

Stargate has always interjectd humor in its episodes but there was some pretty serious stuff going on in this episode (Emerson's murder, torture, etc) and I thought *some* of the humor was a little too corny and overplayed in a couple of scenes to mix well with the rest of the episode. Other bits of humor I liked.

Thought it was a decent episode. At least I didn't wander away from the TV. :)

Good:
* Vala showing off her "street smarts" in procuring the (barely flyable) ship. I admit she made me smile when she kicked the ship to engage the cloak. ;)


* Mitchell undercover, outwitting Natan in the guise of Kefflin. Ben played it just right in this one. And I liked the double switch at the end where he impersonated Natan with the tentacle head guys.

* Teal'c was great and the "I grow tired of this torture" was a classic ;) :) I do too Teal'c!

*Pacing. Episode moved right along and I didn't get bored watching it

* Daniel/Vala were amusing in the scene on the planet and as they interacted with Sam on the Odyssey. "That's better than our plan"...."What's your plan?" ......"We don't have one". :)

Mediocre:

*Emerson's death. It was good that some of the "bad guys" actually followed through on a threat. But I didn't really feel any sadness when he died - kind of a "oh, they're killing off another captain" moment. AT helped a bit with Sam's emotional moment in the next scene but the death still didn't have as much impact as it should have.


Bad:
* bwahahah......"Damm you Cam Mitchell!!" Well others have mentioned it but it deserves another whack. Way too cheesy. :) ;)

* Daniel and Vala's reaction to the Anateo drifting in space was one of those moments that just deserved a meaningful look between the two - not so played for laughs.

* Daniel's "stalling" at the end. Too overplayed on the comedy end. MS seemed to revert to his Prometheus Unbound persona where he really wasn't playing Daniel so much as playing himself with a bit of John Crichton thrown in. :danielanime05:


I'd give it a 6 out of 10. :D

PSp2gamer
September 16th, 2006, 07:09 AM
I really enjoyed this episode. Great acting and a excellent story!. I really feel that it was a bad idea to kill Emerson. He was such a nice guy, and his death had NO meaning, and at the end NOBODY CARED! :( I really dont think he had to die, and if he did, at least make him a hero. Otherwise, this episode was excellent!

8.5/10

chazevelt
September 16th, 2006, 07:37 AM
I wonder how they're ever going to get another commander of any ships they have or may come to have? Whoever takes that job has got to be one of the stupidest SOB's on the planet. I hope they get hazard pay. What does the job description say?

"Wanted: Experienced leader to command interstellar spacecraft. Bravery, leadership skills, and flight experience a must. Lack of will to live desirable."

Like the pony express ads in the old west "...Orphans Preferred".

Skydiver
September 16th, 2006, 07:49 AM
Daniel is simply paired with Vala all the time because they don't want Black & Browder too much together because of their days together on Farscape.
then why not pair her up with teal'c or sam???? if they're really wanting to avoid the browder/black angle (truthfully, if it's that big of an issue they shoulda thought of that before they hired two actors from teh same show. and if the characters' writing was better, cam and vala would be so different from aeryn and john that it wouldn't matter)

this 'set' recipe of daniel/vala, cam/teal'c and sam on her own is old, really, really old.

character development comes from them interacting with each other, but if the pairings are never shaken up, there is no development and it stagnates

Skydiver
September 16th, 2006, 07:53 AM
Let’s see

Jack was date raped in “Brief Candle”

Daniel was (implied) raped in “Need” and then without a doubt in “Hathor”

The writers handled it terribly every time. The only reason they got away with handling it the way they did was because they did it to Jack and Daniel and not Sam.
yes, they DO handle it poorly. which is why i hope and am glad they've never broached the topic 'for real'

these writers are too ham fisted to handle something this emotional and woudl only muck it up.

the ONLY way something like that would work would be to listen to the actors/actresses and value thier input...but these boys don't like to do that.

so i hope they never take that angle simply because it will be so massively bad in so many ways

these boys are of the mentality that htey probably thought 'damn you cam mitchell' was the best line of the episode.

they have all the skill and grace of a pregnant cow on ice when it comes to emotional stuff

Ltcolshepjumper
September 16th, 2006, 07:53 AM
Recently there has never been a team ep. actually when you think about it, in alot of the SG-1 episodes, old and new, SG-1 has been split up. Oneill always went with Teal'c, Carter and Daniel were sometimes together. But there have been few episodes where the team has been with each other the entire episode. That last remark from that alien was very chesy and sounded dumb. Also, Anateo( or the actor that played him) really didn't seem to be that good to me. He voice was monotone as if he was reading the script right there. Also, he acted like he was drunk the entire time.

macktheknife
September 16th, 2006, 07:55 AM
They really put the proverbial boot into emerson.

Bang.



bang bang bang.

ouch.

I like the "NCIS bad guys" lucian alliance. Under Covers was one of my favourite episodes of it :D

Skydiver
September 16th, 2006, 07:56 AM
Bad:
* Daniel and Vala's reaction to the Anateo drifting in space was one of those moments that just deserved a meaningful look between the two - not so played for laughs.

:D

what could have worked would have been daniel saying something like, oh i can't remember what vala said exactly why she grabbed anateo instead of sam but maybe if daniel said something like ' good choice' and jsut downplayed it. after all, baddie or not, they were watching someone die

ColCaldwell
September 16th, 2006, 07:58 AM
Great episode overall. Glad to see that hack Emerson killed off. Hopefully they bring in Colonel William Ronson to replace him!

chazevelt
September 16th, 2006, 07:59 AM
[QUOTE=nccjones]Great episode. I do have a couple of nit picks though. Why was Daniel in the Captain's chair? Hello? Where was the XO? There are other "military" who could take over. That one was a glaring mistake. Though, it was cute to see Daniel uncomfortable in the seat...lol.[QUOTE=nccjones]

I see your point, and agree with you to an extent. However, that being said, I think that the whole spaceship/alien enemies scenerio is quite new to the military people who are placed in these situations. SG1 being the vanguard of such situations, and usually held in a place of highest esteem, looked up to as the go-to people, I bought it that whoever the EO was, he immediatly deferred to anyone from SG1 that walked onto the bridge. And rightly so- even if Daniel isn't military- he's 'been there, done that'. Any officer with half a brain and the will to survive would say 'Be my guest'.

Oreo
September 16th, 2006, 08:00 AM
Am I watching Stargate or Beam Me Up Scotty? I always wanted a third series that would be shipped based, that is out the window considering the ammount of ships they use in Stargate now.

It was ehh...

I like Vala, but there is still no reason for her to be there.

Zoser
September 16th, 2006, 08:32 AM
[QUOTE=nccjones]Great episode. I do have a couple of nit picks though. Why was Daniel in the Captain's chair? Hello? Where was the XO? There are other "military" who could take over. That one was a glaring mistake. Though, it was cute to see Daniel uncomfortable in the seat...lol.[QUOTE=nccjones]

I see your point, and agree with you to an extent. However, that being said, I think that the whole spaceship/alien enemies scenerio is quite new to the military people who are placed in these situations. SG1 being the vanguard of such situations, and usually held in a place of highest esteem, looked up to as the go-to people, I bought it that whoever the EO was, he immediatly deferred to anyone from SG1 that walked onto the bridge. And rightly so- even if Daniel isn't military- he's 'been there, done that'. Any officer with half a brain and the will to survive would say 'Be my guest'.
I guess that must be the answer instead of "We need someone to drive this barge - I know let's get the archeologist!"

chazevelt
September 16th, 2006, 09:17 AM
[QUOTE=chazevelt][QUOTE=nccjones]Great episode. I do have a couple of nit picks though. Why was Daniel in the Captain's chair? Hello? Where was the XO? There are other "military" who could take over. That one was a glaring mistake. Though, it was cute to see Daniel uncomfortable in the seat...lol.
I guess that must be the answer instead of "We need someone to drive this barge - I know let's get the archeologist!"

Well, yeah, and BTW, very funny indeed. However, in terms of actual, hands-on experience, Daniel [I]has[I] been in the driver's seat of a space ship quite a lot more than any given military person. Not to mention he wasn't actually plotting courses and doing the hands-on manuvering, he was simply being a liason between the bridge and his team. Again, with more experience in anticipating what could happen, how they think, a member of the elite team. So once again, IMHO, experience outranks... well, rank. LOL. Reminds me of the time that NID jerk said (sarcastically) that he was confident having an archeologist watching his back and Daniel replied by drawing his knife and asking which end the bullets went in. In an Earth-bound war/battle scenerio, sure it would be dumb for Dr. Jackson to be in that position. But given his past experience, I'd trust him to watch my back... and anything else he cared to watch...

Seastallion
September 16th, 2006, 09:19 AM
anyone notice that the odyssey's full stop sucks compared to a ship from star trek? it took more than 8 seconds for it to completely stop..?


Actually, that only makes it MORE realistic. Things in space rarely come to a 'complete' (relatively speaking) stop in space. Also the Odyssey actually has retro-thrusters you can see on the underbelly to slow, stop, or reverse thrust the ship. Something as large as the Odyssey isn't just going to stop on a dime. That Star Trek ships do it, is no reason to expect Stargate ships to do it.

chazevelt
September 16th, 2006, 09:28 AM
Actually, that only makes it MORE realistic. Things in space rarely come to a 'complete' (relatively speaking) stop in space. Also the Odyssey actually has retro-thrusters you can see on the underbelly to slow, stop, or reverse thrust the ship. Something as large as the Odyssey isn't just going to stop on a dime. That Star Trek ships do it, is no reason to expect Stargate ships to do it.
Oh how I agree with you! One of the things that makes SG1 so endearing is that so much of it isn't perfect, including some of SG1's decisions, but specifically the technology. We're just getting started in this field- by the time we are watching Stargate 53 set in the year 2099, we'll probably have a Galaxy Class Enterprise S that can stand on it's nose and pivot... but until then, the glitches in the operating system of the Odessy only make it more real for me. As for such a huge ship taking time to get whoa'd down- I used to drive tractor-trailer, and believe me, there were times I wished I had reverse thrusters mounted under the frame....

Mainer82
September 16th, 2006, 09:55 AM
The only problem I had with this episode is the science is bad... If one were to exit into space, they would compressed, freeze and probably shatter.... guns cannot be fired in space either. :|

Kilharae
September 16th, 2006, 09:57 AM
The guy that got beamed in space should have been dead instantly.

ERRN Wrong.

http://imagine.gsfc.nasa.gov/docs/ask_astro/answers/970603.html


If you don't try to hold your breath, exposure to space for half a minute or so is unlikely to produce permanent injury.

rolling your eyes at something scientifically true eh? I bet you felt so superior at the time.

LoneStar1836
September 16th, 2006, 10:03 AM
I was hoping Col Emerson would eventually get put in that closet where characters go to disappear, but I was never expecting them to shoot the guy to get rid of him. And then put a couple more into him for good measure. Oh well. I found Col Pendergast’s death to be more emotional and meaningful. I feel bad for Sam, but not so much Emerson. The character and acting was flat, imo. I’m guessing his was the character death that was rumored about near the start of the season? Haven’t read spoilers lately.


Glad to see that hack Emerson killed off. Hopefully they bring in Colonel William Ronson to replace him!Please, no. I couldn't really stand that guy either. Though he did at least have a little more spunk to him.




The ending wasn’t much of a surprise. I figured that was Mitchell all along.

And is it just me or do these earth ships really suck at taking damage. They take a couple of hits and they are dead in the water. What happened to those super advanced Asgard shields that we begged for for so many years and then finally got. I think those Asgard are running a scam and passing off defective goods. :D

Eh, this episode wasn’t much better than last week’s, storywise. I don’t care for the whole Trust bleh and this Lucian Alliance bunch doesn’t interest me all that much either. Though I would say that this episode had more of a team feel to it than last week’s.

On the other hand, I’ve really enjoyed the past 3 episodes of SGA, including last night’s.

MB.Eddie
September 16th, 2006, 10:15 AM
Great ep.

Loved that we got to see more of the LA, and its inner workings.

Great to see that they finally used Vala's connections a couple of times.

Killing Emerson was also ok. I hadnt read spoilers, so it was unexpected to me. Gave it more of a dark, and real feel to the ep.

Mitcell and Teal'c were both good.

Nice to see that we have finally showed our hand, and are at war with the LA.

"Cam Mitchell:Bounty Hunter", lol, Classic stuff. Nice to see that they included that and the mind altering potion from previous eps too.

9/10,

Season 10 rocks :)

full.infinity
September 16th, 2006, 10:24 AM
but emerson's 'set a course, hard right????' dude, what happened to starboard?? that's the proper ship term
Emerson's Air Force.

not to mention one of what? 4 aliens in the LA that know what cam looks like jsut happening to be the ones that beamed on board netan's ship

as the church lady would say 'isn't that conveeeennnniiiieeeennnntttttt'
So are a lot of things in a lot of TV shows.

It was a good episode but what is with the killing off of recurring characters! Can't they kill redshirts instead of people we start getting used to? I mean, is the payroll too high when you use recurring characters! I'm still pissed about the other recurring they've killed in the last year, specifically Jacob/Selmak, Chekov and Pendergast.
Would you rather they kill off main characters a la Serenity?

Yes, it seems nothing will please anyone these days. :rolleyes:
Of course, this is the EVIL NEW seasons, which MUST ALWAYS PALE in response to the PERFECT OLD EPISODES.

Anyone catch that Netan told the strange alien guy that he was the biggest fool in two galaxies?

I don't think he'd be talking about Pegasus since I don't think many people know about that galaxy yet. So does that mean the strange alien guy is from a different galaxy? And does the Lucian Alliance know howto get to different galaxies?
Yeah, I noticed that too. My guess is that those LA aliens are from another galaxy.

Not as bad as I thought it would be. That snivelling alien coward at the end "Damn you, Cam Mitchell" just before blowing up was OOOOOOOTT though. So very bad sci-fi cliched.

Suse
The aliens were over the top in the first place..."Damn you, Cam Mitchell" fits in perfectly with that.

Also, where did the Lucian Alliance get Tau'ri guns? Did they just decide, hey, these are better than Zatnikatels.
They looked more like Ronon's gun than Tau'ri guns to me.

cassia
September 16th, 2006, 10:31 AM
Well, not too much to say that someone hasn't all ready said... I was really sorry to see Emerson go, as I liked him a lot, but if he had to, then I liked the way they did it. Because so often in these shows it's all threatening and no action from the bad guys, making you wonder why they bother threatening. Sometimes they need to just pull the trigger and show their unreasonable sides to prove that they're actually worth disliking.

There were plenty of points that I didn't care for, but again, those have mostly been covered so I'm gonna stay on the positive.

I liked the humor, I liked Teal'c's reactions, I liked the falling apart ship bit... *chuckles* is it just me, or did they end up seeming a little more like the A-Team in that instance... with Vala filling in for Face as their con-man who got them something that flew... mostly... :D (ah, but if I begin to date myself... sorry...)

But there's one thing I'm wondering about other people's thoughts on... I don't know if it's already been covered in this discussion, I might have missed it when skimming through all the posts, if so, sorry.

I'm wondering what exactly happened to Sam while she was gone with Anateo the first time? She seemed awfully upset when she came back... Yes, I understand he'd killed Emerson in front of her, but I wasn't aware they were that close, and Sam's seen plenty of death before without evoking that much of a reaction. If it was one of her close friends, okay... but otherwise...? And according to the man who spoke to her when she came back, she'd been gone for hours... the initial shock would have worn off by then, no?

The fact that they chose to stress that she had been gone a good deal of time was also giving me pause. Now, obviously, she could have been gone for hours because Anateo was making her work on the ship, as he continued to do throughout the episode, but usually when Sam goes techy she tends to get absorbed and calmer, not more upset. Another thing to note is that Anateo was kinda coming on to her at more than one point, and that little crack about women and food, and earth people having one out of the two seemed a little pointed to me. So I'm just wondering if anyone else wondered if anything else was going on there. *shrugs*

FallenAngelII
September 16th, 2006, 10:50 AM
That was a rather pointless death (Emerson's). The least they could've done would've been to give him a proper sendoff, instead he died on a whim. I expect better deaths for recurring and semi-recurring characters.

chazevelt
September 16th, 2006, 10:52 AM
I liked the humor, I liked Teal'c's reactions, I liked the falling apart ship bit... *chuckles* is it just me, or did they end up seeming a little more like the A-Team in that instance... with Vala filling in for Face as their con-man who got them something that flew... mostly... :D (ah, but if I begin to date myself... sorry...)


Oh wow, I had the exact same reaction! Vala seemed to be mirroring Face Man and Murdock all at once. But I loved it!

LMichelle
September 16th, 2006, 11:13 AM
This ep was mildly entertaining.

I loved Undercover Daniel and Vala. Arguing like a married couple. ;) I guess there's a closet full of leather for these undercover missions, right?

Captain Daniel. LOL!

Poor Emerson. TPTB are going to be happy until they kill off everyone and destroy all the ships, are they? *slaps writers*

Continuity points for bringing Tennat back.

The Teal'c bondage has been done to death. While I appreciate the writers working in bondage, let's give some of the other characters a chance to be in restrants. *coughDanielcough* ;)

New ending song with Vala. Yay!

GateLadyM
September 16th, 2006, 11:33 AM
Poor Emerson, that was rather shocking. But it did make the bad guys feel like they really would kill Sam. Sometimes its "good" to see bad guys be really "bad". ;)

I enjoyed everyone in this episode. Poor Teal'c is going to blow a fuse one of these days. Mitchell was good with his impersonations, Vala was funny with her version of ship repairs, and Carter's quiet tears were touching but not overdone.

Still hard to believe this show is cancelled. :(

gatebuster64
September 16th, 2006, 12:40 PM
reaaly neat episode, itwas a little weird showing how Cam looked to Netan, i still however don't quite get how the LA got hold of tau'ri projectile weapons, and i don't see how Anetao could fire a gun in the vacuum of space

DEM
September 16th, 2006, 12:45 PM
I'm wondering what exactly happened to Sam while she was gone with Anateo the first time? She seemed awfully upset when she came back... Yes, I understand he'd killed Emerson in front of her, but I wasn't aware they were that close, and Sam's seen plenty of death before without evoking that much of a reaction. If it was one of her close friends, okay... but otherwise...? And according to the man who spoke to her when she came back, she'd been gone for hours... the initial shock would have worn off by then, no?

The fact that they chose to stress that she had been gone a good deal of time was also giving me pause. I also thought that scene a bit odd; however Agent Dark (elsewhere) pointed out that it was only after Marks 'provoked' the reaction that Carter let the tears fall. I find merit in that interpretation. That said, I am not letting go of my belief that the writer wanted a "Carter finally has a chance to grieve" moment and could find no other way or place to get it into the script. ;)

Marks' line about being gone for hours sounded very odd to my ears. It sounded dubbed. Did anyone else think that?

In the end, although I would have preferred not to have Col Carter be weepy in front of the crew she was seeing for the first time in 'hours' (and the FIRST time as their commanding officer), I guess I can live with it because it was far preferable to the depiction of the Carter-Pendergast relationship in S9. Carter has been involved with the SGC's spacecraft program since Day 1 and was even moreso when she was stationed at Area 51. Therefore, the lack of any sort of tangible Carter-Pendergast camaraderie -- including the lack of a significant emotional beat for Carter when Pendergast perished in Ethon -- really rubbed me the wrong way. So, this was better than that. :sam59:

Dani347
September 16th, 2006, 12:49 PM
destroy all the ships


And, this is bad, how?;)

majorsal
September 16th, 2006, 01:14 PM
I don't really mind that part with Sam. She is in the military, yes, but also human. And she wasn't bawling her eyes out in the corner. She showed a little Sam(and had every reason to if you think about it), then the rest of the episode she was Colonel Carter-a great leader doing her thing.

i had absolutely no probs with sam's reaction. after reading some ppl's views on that scene, i thought sam was going to be a quivering mess. she acted normal. now *i* would have been a quivering mess. :p




sally :)

The Signal
September 16th, 2006, 01:15 PM
Pleasantly surprised by this one.

Pro's:

A good story, though resolved a little too easily

Emmerson's death was fan-bloody tastic, no heroics, no blaze of glory, a simple death, sort of a "this is war, people die pointlessly" situation, its realistic IMO

Mitchell didn't annoy me for once, I don't normally like this amount of focus on him, but for this episode, it worked IMO

Referencing the past, I've always wanted them to use the Reole compund again, and it was cleverly utilised for this episode

Con's

The Lucian Alliance finally get a little bit of development, and they turn into clones of the System Lords

Inapropriately timed humour galore, this is getting repetetive

Character issues AGAIN! :S Vala and Daniel glued at the hip, while Teal'c and Sam get sidelined. Though at least Sam showed both her human side by mourning Emmerson, and her military side by following his orders, even though she knew it would get him killed.

So, overall, this episode surprised me, no Lucian based ep has gotten higher than a 4 in my book, so this is a record beater

6/10 - just a shame that this is an impressive score for the season, way back when a 6 would be a bad ep :(

Skydiver
September 16th, 2006, 01:16 PM
Would you rather they kill off main characters a la Serenity?

Of course, this is the EVIL NEW seasons, which MUST ALWAYS PALE in response to the PERFECT OLD EPISODES.




can i choose which ones they kill??? :D

The older episodes weren't perfect. nothing is perfect. but they were a LOT less farcical and mocking than the fine stuff our Marty Stu writers are cranking out now

CoT was far from the worst eps of the season, but it won't even get close to some of the classics from the earlier years....back in the 'good old days' when they took pride in their work and cared about more than how many jokes can be crammed in each hour and how often they can justify wearing leather

NotAscended
September 16th, 2006, 01:23 PM
In the end, although I would have preferred not to have Col Carter be weepy in front of the crew she was seeing for the first time in 'hours' (and the FIRST time as their commanding officer), I guess I can live with it because it was far preferable to the depiction of the Carter-Pendergast relationship in S9. Carter has been involved with the SGC's spacecraft program since Day 1 and was even moreso when she was stationed at Area 51. Therefore, the lack of any sort of tangible Carter-Pendergast camaraderie -- including the lack of a significant emotional beat for Carter when Pendergast perished in Ethon -- really rubbed me the wrong way. So, this was better than that. :sam59:

Nice point. I had forgotten that she spent a considerable amount of time at Area 51 with all these people during the development of the ships. She probably knows most of the crew personally, so the loss of any of them (particularly in such a pointless fashion as Emerson died), should hit her really hard.

In contrasting her reactions to Emerson vs. Pendergast, I would think that as a soldier she is better prepared for dealing with deaths in battle. Pendergast died as a captain at the helm of his ship, while protecting and saving his crew. It was a heroic death and was a choice he was able to make for himself. In this case, the captain was taken from his crew and ship and executed right in front of Sam. The situation was made more personal, because Emerson was specifically killed in order to motivate Sam to follow their orders. There was no redemption in the act, and the death was senseless. Soldiers can learn to accept heroic deaths, but senseless death is another matter. I'm glad she was able to shed a tear for that.

esoap524
September 16th, 2006, 01:24 PM
Despite popular opinion, humans don't explode in a vacuum.

Here ya go:

http://www.sff.net/people/Geoffrey.Landis/vacuum.html

majorsal
September 16th, 2006, 01:27 PM
Not as bad as I thought it would be. That snivelling alien coward at the end "Damn you, Cam Mitchell" just before blowing up was OOOOOOOTT though. So very bad sci-fi cliched.

Suse

you know my only real quibble with this ep? the scene where vala beamed the main bad guy out into space. now, i'm not an expert in just what happens to a person's body in space, but i know enough to know he'd have died almost instantly, and in a most painful way.

i appreciate realism on this show. i appreciate the writers looking info up to make sure it's realistic. in fact, i'll look up 'what happens to a human body in space?'

http://imagine.gsfc.nasa.gov/docs/ask_astro/answers/970603.html

http://www.mit.edu/~goodmanj/madsci/912459934.As.r.html

okay, so he wouldn't die almost instantly, but i had a couple of other things right! :p





sally :)

majorsal
September 16th, 2006, 01:35 PM
I remember this subject has come up on the boards at least once before, maybe more. I thought it was an intimidation tecnique as well, and it would make sense that in all their travels, someone would try to use it on Sam, not merely because of her looks, but also just the fact that she's female.

exactly. i'm actually surprised it hasn't happened more, and i mean that in a realistic sense. 'how dare a female do a man's job!'



sally :)

majorsal
September 16th, 2006, 01:39 PM
if stargate sg-1 was real, she wouldve been raped a long time ago by the baddies...


yes. :S





sally :)

majorsal
September 16th, 2006, 01:48 PM
I no longer feel as though I am watching Stargate.
It had the feel of reading a comic book - I've not seen anime and maybe that's what I mean.
For a comic book it was okay but a lot of whys.
Why was Carter on the ship?
Why was Daniel in the command seat? Surely there was some officer left on the ship who was more appropriate for that position.
Why do 'aliens' use American slang?
Why did Netan fall so readily for Mitchell disguise? When Daniel used the ring Lord Yu looked on him as a servant and mostly ignored him - here you would thing a persons actions, speach, body language would give him away.

zoser, stop asking intelligent questions! :p it's not like we're supposed to notice daniel continuing to where his leather outfit on the ship (that's after the team got control of the ship back), or the fact that he didn't wear his glasses again (he wears contacts?).




sally :)

majorsal
September 16th, 2006, 01:54 PM
Which is precisely what's wrong with the show these days, imo. Star Trek clones I can get ten a penny. Stargate used to be a breath of fresh air precisely because it didn't use starships, handy transporter beams etc. It used to be about something different from all those other space operas out there. It used to be about a...now, let's think what was it called? Oh yeah...A STARGATE!!

If I want to watch ST:TNG I can haul out my DVDs. When I tune in to watch Stargate, I don't expect to see...well, this.

Albion

i actually like space-themed shows (star treks, etc). i'd prefer to see GATE travels on starGATE, but... if the ptb just happen to want to make a show about sam being the commander of a space vessel, i, out of the kindness of my heart, would give it a shot. :p





sally :)

Giantevilhead
September 16th, 2006, 01:58 PM
I no longer feel as though I am watching Stargate.
It had the feel of reading a comic book - I've not seen anime and maybe that's what I mean.
For a comic book it was okay but a lot of whys.
Why was Carter on the ship?
They were expecting to find a supergate. Who knows more about the supergate than Sam?


Why was Daniel in the command seat? Surely there was some officer left on the ship who was more appropriate for that position.
All working to repair the ship.


Why do 'aliens' use American slang?
Why do they even speak English? Shouldn't they be speaking Goa'uld or Jaffa? Even if they are speaking English, their accent, grammar, and volcabulary should be completely different. A guy from Australia, a guy from 18th century America, and a guy from 16th century England all speak English but they'll still have trouble understanding each other, even if they are speaking English in Stargate they still shouldn't understand each other. It's called suspension of disbelief.


Why did Netan fall so readily for Mitchell disguise? When Daniel used the ring Lord Yu looked on him as a servant and mostly ignored him - here you would thing a persons actions, speach, body language would give him away.
The team never even met the Reole in "The Fifth Man" but thought that he was a team member due to the chemical. The Reole's mannerizes weren't even human. His legs bent backwards. I think he was also naked.

Dani347
September 16th, 2006, 02:13 PM
Why do they even speak English? Shouldn't they be speaking Goa'uld or Jaffa? Even if they are speaking English, their accent, grammar, and volcabulary should be completely different. A guy from Australia, a guy from 18th century America, and a guy from 16th century England all speak English but they'll still have trouble understanding each other, even if they are speaking English in Stargate they still shouldn't understand each other. It's called suspension of disbelief.



Well, I think some aliens should speak something other than English, at least once in awhile -or why else have a freaking linguist on the team? But, if they're not going to do that, then they should speak English at least a little differently. There's suspension of disbelief and then there's laziness.

Dani347
September 16th, 2006, 02:18 PM
or the fact that he didn't wear his glasses again (he wears contacts?).




And, drawing glasses on the screen with a marker doesn't work, since he keeps moving. joke.

golfbooy
September 16th, 2006, 02:22 PM
A more engaging opening to this post escapes me at the moment; this will have to do. I certainly thought Company of Thieves could have been worse. On the whole I expected something far worse than actually came about. So, diving right in:

Company of Thieves had been touted as being a Mitchell episode, but that didn't really pan out. No, this one really was about the Lucien Alliance. And from one perspective that's good. Among season nine's lengthy list of failures is the total failure on the part of the writers to give the Lucien Alliance anything even remotely resembling structure, logic, believability, or significance. In season nine they were the cheapest of plot devices, an organization whose only purpose was to look weak and pathetic next to the sparkling ingenuity of the SGC. That is unless of course it suited the story to have them be menacing and puissant. In which case they were--at least for a couple of scenes. The crappy characterization of the Alliance continued in Flesh and Blood, albeit as a carryover from season nine. Here, in Company of Thieves, the writers do make a noticable effort to solidify and add depth to this would-be villainous bunch. The Lucien Alliance's basic structure is outlined, numerous players are at least touched upon, and Netan is given a bit more character than simply "Bad Guy". So from the perspective of continued growth and future storylines, Company of Thieves does make strides forward. The writers may even be trying to give the Mitchell character something he can take an active interest in, even if the Lucien Alliance storyline can never really be "his" proprietarily.

The problem for Company of Thieves comes from the other perspective. That is, all this work really is pointless. Given Scifi's non-renewal of SG-1, the likelyhood that we will ever see another episode where the Lucien Alliance plays any kind of signifcant role is almost nil. I suppose that they may come into play in Bounty, but still, they're pretty much a dead storyline. In any future incarnations of SG-1 it has to be believed that the Ori and the Goa'uld will be taking center stage as the main villain. Even if that's not the case, the Replicators and even the Wraith make far more attractive villains for any kind "big" story. No, given the recent developments in the franchise, I'm betting that the Lucien Alliance will find its way down into the depths of Stargate Plot Limbo where it can take up residence with the also now-unecessary NID/Trust and apparently uninteresting (does anyone besides the writers really feel this way?) Tok'ra. Maybe the Alliance can turn up in Atlantis; EVERYTHING else from SG-1 seems to.

Anyway, the start of the episode was really good. I'm not a fan of "ship shows", and honestly Company of Thieves is a bit too Trekish for my blood, but the opening where the Odyssey is ambushed was well executed and believable. The use of a minefield to trap the ship worked for me, and even gave those who love CGI sequences a plausible, in-story reason to go gaga for graphics. And, frankly, I love it when Earth's ships get thoroughly trounced. The crew's reactions to Anateo and his men were nicely played, and I (like others have mentioned) was relieved to see Sam and the crew save themselves. Surprisingly enough, I felt more for Sam than I did for Emerson. I think this a directorial problem. Amanda Tapping plays Emerson's death as seminal and dramatic, but the actual execution was ho-hum. And I never took Emerson to be that great of a character, always finding him ordinary and without personality--even in death. I'd have rather it had been Marks who bought it, which would have touched nicely on Sam's scenes with him in Ethon and made her reaction fit better with the story.

The bit with the transponder was a little wonky from my perspective, and came across as a bit thoughtless on the part of the writers. The one thing the audience carries with it from last week's Memento Mori, and is reminded of again with the new opening credit sequence, is that Vala has been accepted as part of the SG-1 team. Why the writers then choose to play up her unscrupulous side and the team's (dissipated?) mistrust of her I don't get. And I don't know why the cargo ship had to be faulty, save for a few jokes. They also went for funny on the planet with Borzin, which I thought an odd change of tone for the otherwise more serious episode. With the Odyssey and her crew at stake, and especially with Sam in danger I would expect the team to be less glib and more determined--especially Daniel. I suppose the point of this portion of the episode was to let SGC know that the Lucien Alliance was responsible, and to get Vala out of the way so that Mitchell could be the one to "infiltrate" the Alliance, but it just seemed out of place to me.

Well, on to the infiltration. Let me start by saying that Mitchell himself didn't do anything wrong. This paragraph is not meant bag on Cam. But dear God, some of the things that pass for dialogue these days are just astounding. The "I'm seeing a therapist" line just jarred me right out of the scene. And am I really supposed to believe that Mitchell could just act all nefarious and thugish and perfectly nail Kefflin's character? Maybe with some of the others, but with Netan, to whom he's supposedly close? It's my understanding that the Reolle chemical makes you "look" like someone else, not make others stupid. "This man knows nothing of torture". Kill me now. It was just written as too easy. I never got the feeling that Mitchell was in a tight spot, that he was risking anything. Teal'c seemed to grasp the gravity of the situation from his broom closet, but that tension didn't spill over into the scenes with Cameron and Netan. Most of this part of the story was told from Netan's perspective, not Mitchell's. I suppose that worked to flesh out the Alliance, but also marginalized the danger Cameron and Teal'c were in. Oh, and why was Teal'c captured in the first place? Mitchell, posing as Kefflin, contacted the Lucien Alliance from that ship. Surely it's existence isn't a mystery.

Still, those parts of the episode weren't bad. Now Tenat, on the other hand, he was bad. The whole story took a nosedive the minute that goofball showed up. There is nothing cool, entertaining, original, or realistic about Tenat. He's a stupid, funny looking alien that should never have seen the light of day. Even following New Stargate's busted logic, there is no way that he has now worked his way up to captaining a ha'tak following the buffoonery that is The Ties That Bind. And I would have muched preferred Mitchell and Teal'c actually storming the bridge and taking over Tenat's ship at the end, rather than be subjected to the confusingly shot, muddled ruse. It would have nicely mirrored SG-1 retaking the Odyssey. The way the final escape was presented was choppy and unbelievable. "Damn you Cam Mitchell!"? Damn you Alan McCollough!

The resolution of the intrigue aboard the Odyssey was good, despite the use of crap-ass beaming technology. Couldn't Sam and Vala have pushed Anateo out of an airlock or something? Still, if I have one complaint it's that Vala and Daniel get to dispatch Anateo and not Carter. Yes, it was all Carter's plan, but what's the point of building a personal animosity between her and Anateo if there's no personal resolution? Surely it would have been nice for Sam to get some revenge for Emerson's death.

Character-wise Company of Thieves is annoying in that the characters are once again split into the writers pet groupings. Daniel and Vala are again inseperably tied to each other. At this point they might as well stop with the charade, find some nifty device to fuse the two characters together, and start letting the team interact with Danala. At least then there would be a reason for them to be so conjoined. Mitchell and Teal'c once again reprise their Little Man, Big Man dynamic to moderate success. Poor Sam is still stuck all by her lonesome, but her character probably faired much better than anyone else's in Company of Thieves because of her isolation from her team. I know that the writers are pimping The Quest as a big "the team is together the whole time" episode, but it's annoying to think that such an occurance is a special occasion.

Babe Henry continues to be all bluster, no substance. His comments just irk me. Did I hear him rightly when he said to "Tell all the Jaffa, I want to talk to the head of the Lucien Alliance!"? What? Someone explain this to me. Really, I'm asking. Tell me why Hank wants to talk to Netan or what he hopes to accomplish. I'm reminded of Aris Boch's, "Oh well, I'll alert the galaxy," crack. "This sounds like a rerun." Oh, does it Hank? Putz.

This episode should have been bigger for Mitchell than it turned out. I wish he "owned" his part of the story as much as Sam, Daniel, and Vala owned theirs. As I said above, I felt like Netan was the character getting developed, not Cam. That aside, I liked the whole infiltration idea. SG-1 is always proactive, so I didn't expect Teal'c and Cam to do nothing, even if they wound up rescuing no one. Mitchell still seems so uncomfortable around the team, though. Both in the briefing room scene and especially in the cargo ship I felt like Mitchell was just tagging along. It just still feels to me like it's SG-1 plus Mitchell, not that he's part of SG-1. Vala's easy inclusion into the team dynamic has only made Cam's clunky interactions more obvious.

Teal'c rocks. Chris Judge just does so much with so little. I feel like he completely stole the show here. Aside from the torture, the two bits where he yells at Cameron to follow through with the mission and where he goes on a rampage were awesome. Teal'c wailing on the downed guard was cathartic, both for him and us. Still, there has to be more for Teal'c to do than stand around all tied up. Do better.

As I said above, Daniel could have been more serious throughout the episode. And I absolutley hate his interactions with Vala in this episode. Please, don't go back to Three Stooges Daniel. But I liked the "stalling" bit at the end. I thought it was a nice throwback to the similar scene in Tangent, if not nearly as amusing. That's it. Not too much for Danny in this one.

Vala didn't really contribute much either. She did procure the cargo ship, and yes, I appreciate the writers trying to illustrate her use, but there was never a shortage of cargo ships in the past. The Jaffa and Tok'ra have always been rather forthcoming in that regard. And how many more times do we have to see Vala's "connections" not pan out? The SGC comes across as a bunch of dupes everytime they follow her into trouble. Again, her interaction with Daniel was painful. Vala's best scene in the episode? The add on to the credits.

That just leaves Sam. Left to her own devices for much of the episode again, the writers continue to use Amanda Tapping (along with Chris Judge) to inject some emotional meaning and resonance into an othewise dry outing. Sam's reaction to Emerson's death, both on the bridge and in the cargo hold, gave that moment some gravity, even if the script didn't. Also, her reunion and ensuing machinations with Daniel and Vala felt very natural. Competent and self-reliant, Carter is too often used these days to balance out the other, sillier parts to episodes. As I said with Teal'c, do better.

In the end, Company of Thieves is a decent episode that probably amounts to very little in the grand scheme of things. Enjoyable as it is, I'm looking for more substance and importance out of these (now) final episodes.

chazevelt
September 16th, 2006, 02:28 PM
Some folks here liked the jokes, some felt they were out of place, others say they were corny.
I love the funny moments in SG1. But since RDA left, it's seemed more scripted than natural. I think RDA's sense of humor and penchant for brilliant ad-libs set a precedent for the show's humorous side that the writers are trying to recreate...with questionable success. Don't get me wrong- I love the tongue-in-cheek stuff. It's just different now. If Mitchell and Vala were given the chance to play off Jack's quirky sense of humor and relentless ability to think outside the box, the characters might have evolved a bit differently. Teal'c, Sam, and Daniel were melded into the cohesive team they now are from having been exposed to many years of Jack's leadership and example. Jack insisted on the 'never say die' philosophy, and he kept his team together by lightening the darkest of moments. Cam and Vala have yet to get a real taste of that legacy thru the rest of SG1. If the series is given enough time, I anticipate the humor becoming more spontaneous and responsive, rather than contrived as it seems now. But they are still feeling their way around being a team.
Just like Sam showing more emotion since Jack left. Seems to me she made an extra effort to be tough and without emotion when he was there, perhaps in a constant effort to prove herself to him. If you remember, it was always Jack encouraging her to vent, rest, or let go and cry and she did her best not to give in. Maybe she doesn't feel the need to prove anything to this new team, and so we're seeing yet another side of her. Personally, I don't care for it as IMO it makes her come off as less tough and less battle-hardened than Vala. I can buy that Vala is more 'universe-wise' than Sam, and that she wouldn't hesitate to make use of tactics to which Sam would never stoop, but tougher? Nah.

underduck
September 16th, 2006, 02:41 PM
I was in "Company of Thieves"! Woo!

Read all about it.. ((Spoiler Images within.. be warned))

http://forum.gateworld.net/showthread.php?t=35388

MasySyma
September 16th, 2006, 02:54 PM
I found this episode ok but not great. Then again, Season 10 was overdue for an average episode. Mostly, I'm liking the season. I find the Lucian Alliance an annoying but realistic side effect of destorying the Goa'uld.

Pros:

1. Angry Teal'c. We should see more angry Teal'c. He needs something to do more often.

2. Vala was wonderful, and I loved when she beamed the villain into space.

Cons:

1. The episode was ok, but it took forever. When Teal'c screamed that he was tired of the torture, I felt his pain. As viewers, we were tortured a bit this week.

2. Lusty villains hitting on Sam get old. I'm not saying that I want Sam to be ignored, but could she just be appreciated for her brain?

3. I have to agree that the "Damn you Cam Mitchell" line was just bad. It would have been far funnier if the alien had yelled Stella at this point.

Overall, it wasn't my favorite, but the trailer for next week looked cool. I'll give it a 7/10.

Kracker
September 16th, 2006, 03:04 PM
then why not pair her up with teal'c or sam????

Because she doesnt have any where near as much chemistry with either of those than she does with the guy playing Daniel?

Didnt think I was gonig to overlly like this episode at the beginning, but enjoyed it more as it went on. Shame that wierd alien guy at the end had to die though.

JohnDuh
September 16th, 2006, 03:07 PM
aliens speak proper english, not slang. they're not from earth, thus can't know earth slang. you can't have the 'comedy' of vala not getting slang, then having aliens - especially aliens she's run across - knowing said slang


The aliens are not speaking english, its the universal translator.

Dani347
September 16th, 2006, 03:17 PM
Because she doesnt have any where near as much chemistry with either of those than she does with the guy playing Daniel?



At this point, how can anyone tell? I mean, since you could probably count on one hand that lost a few fingers how many times they let her team up with either Teal'c or Sam.

Dani347
September 16th, 2006, 03:20 PM
The aliens are not speaking english, its the universal translator.


AKA - lazy writers who think it's funny to hear aliens say they "screwed up" and the ever hilarious "damn you, Cam Mitchell!" I think the translator comes with a built in yuk yuk button.

JohnDuh
September 16th, 2006, 03:28 PM
And that gun going off in space? I don't care if Lucian Alliance guns work in space, he should've been dead within seconds of materializing in space, no time to think or fire his gun. He should've exploded, but that would've been gruesome.

No he shouldn't that's the hollywood nonsense. You don't start really dying until you run out of oxygen. You don't explode, your blood doesn't boil, you don't insta freeze. You live for a few terrible minuttes at most before you fade out, like they showed us.

http://imagine.gsfc.nasa.gov/docs/ask_astro/answers/970603.html

majorsal
September 16th, 2006, 03:28 PM
AKA - lazy writers who think it's funny to hear aliens say they "screwed up" and the ever hilarious "damn you, Cam Mitchell!" I think the translator comes with a built in yuk yuk button.

i must have short term memory loss, because i've tried to green you 3 times today, only to be told i had to spread the wealth around. so, here's your faux green! :p

sorry for the OTness, but i just had to celebrate the coolness that is dani347





sally :)

Shipperahoy
September 16th, 2006, 03:30 PM
AKA - lazy writers who think it's funny to hear aliens say they "screwed up" and the ever hilarious "damn you, Cam Mitchell!" I think the translator comes with a built in yuk yuk button.

I'm waiting on pins and needles for the built in laugh track.:)

JohnDuh
September 16th, 2006, 03:30 PM
AKA - lazy writers who think it's funny to hear aliens say they "screwed up" and the ever hilarious "damn you, Cam Mitchell!" I think the translator comes with a built in yuk yuk button.

Well, you could call it lazy, I think they just didn't think about it because its normal parlance to them. Much like Data on STNG wasn't supposed to use contractions, but it slipped several times because its not normal for them.

Personally I think its totally irrelevant, but we all got hangs up over different things.

JohnDuh
September 16th, 2006, 03:33 PM
It was a good episode but what is with the killing off of recurring characters! Can't they kill redshirts instead of people we start getting used to? I mean, is the payroll too high when you use recurring characters! I'm still pissed about the other recurring they've killed in the last year, specifically Jacob/Selmak, Chekov and Pendergast.

Presumably the influence of Martin "If we kill someone irrelevant in the background, not only will they think we'll bump of one of main actors but I'll be a big writer when I grow up!" Gero ;)

JohnDuh
September 16th, 2006, 03:37 PM
The guy that got beamed in space should have been dead instantly. I kind of rolled my eyes on that one.


Except he shouldn't. You roll your eyes at the way the world is - its hard being a writer sometimes. (See previous link)

Descent
September 16th, 2006, 03:45 PM
AKA - lazy writers who think it's funny to hear aliens say they "screwed up" and the ever hilarious "damn you, Cam Mitchell!" I think the translator comes with a built in yuk yuk button.

And what? You want the writers to turn this into Farscape or something with aliens yelling "Frell you" and all that. Its amazing how some of you get annoyed by the most inconsequential little things. With such irritable fans, who needs enemies? ;)

Dani347
September 16th, 2006, 03:53 PM
And what? You want the writers to turn this into Farscape or something with aliens yelling "Frell you" and all that. Its amazing how some of you get annoyed by the most inconsequential little things. With such irritable fans, who needs enemies? ;)


Oh, please. No, really, please. First, ever hear the expression 'God is in the details'? Those "inconsequential little things" help add to the realism (and don't bring up that this is scifi. Even scifi has to have its own realism) of the show. Lets see, I think Sky said the alien could have said something like "I made a mistake" or "an error" and I'm sure they could have found some more formal thing to say instead of "Damn you, Cam Mitchell" without using Farscape language, or even their own made up words. Or, they could have just cut that stupid, playing for laughs (laughing to keep from crying at the idiocy, I suppose) line altogether.

It's amazing how some people feel the need to make a big deal out of what other people discuss about a tv show.

If the episode as a whole had grabbed me, I probably wouldn't pay any attention to the language part. Well, no, I'm lying. The language is my thing. I always think of Daniel as a linguist first. But, if the episode had grabbed me, I wouldn't pay as much attention to the language issues.

edited to make sense.

Descent
September 16th, 2006, 04:13 PM
I'm not the one making a big deal out of something here. :P

"Damn you, Cam Mitchell!!" was too on the nose for me as well. It was cliche and unnecessary.

But if your complaining about how aliens on the show use our terminology then you shouldn't be complaining about this episode alone.

I prefer "I screwed up" over some cheesy, cringe worthy Alien swear word from say "Space Race" ;)

Lida
September 16th, 2006, 04:18 PM
Well, after reading the last bunch of posts, I am beginning to see why SciFi cancelled SG-1.....and don't be surprised if Atlantis doesn't make it to episode 100. :( Since so many of you are putting down the writing, please keep me apprised of your own endeavors in the field of TV screenplays or even Fanfic. I am always looking for a good read.

Dani347
September 16th, 2006, 04:19 PM
You're making a big deal out of the apparent big deal I'm making of the episode. The fact that my reaction to the episode is worth a post that is entirely about my reaction to the episode seems to be overkill.

And, I didn't take an oath that I would only react to things if I could consistantly react the same way in each episode. I reserve the right to hate one thing in an episode and absolutely love the same thing in another. And, to like when one character does something, and get annoyed when another character does it. It may not be fair, but I'm okay with that.



Well, after reading the last bunch of posts, I am beginning to see whySciFi cancelled SG-1.....and don't be surprised if Atlantis doesn't make it to episode 100. Since so many of you are putting down the writing, please keep me apprised of your own endeavors in the field of TV screenplays or even Fanfic. I am always looking for a good read.

Uh, you don't need to be a writer to critique writing. Or else, why have an audience? Might as well only let writers read books or watch tv shows/movies/plays. But, I'd be happy to send a link to my fanfic if it somehow makes me more qualified to express my opinions on the show.

Descent
September 16th, 2006, 04:23 PM
I was merely pointing something out to you, I was debating. Man, this place has become so hostile these days...:S

Mitchell82
September 16th, 2006, 04:25 PM
Well it seems the majority loved the episode and thats music to my ears. I hated how many people bashed Memento Mori as I thought it was great and really showcased Claudia's acting ability as "Lifeboat" showcased Michael's. I loved this episode. I was shocked and saddened at Emersons death as I really liked him but I loved everything about this ep. I am so sick and tired of everyone picking apart not seeing the gate in every ep and the Paring of Mticheel/Teal'c and Vala/Daniel. I love those pairings and feel they mesh so well together. I really love this ep and I can't wait for Quest part 1 and Return part 1. The only thing is th ****ing 6 month hiatus! DAMN YOU SCIFI! KISS MY MICKTA!

Dani347
September 16th, 2006, 04:30 PM
I was merely pointing something out to you, I was debating. Man, this place has become so hostile these days...:S

Debate is one thing. Telling me that I'm making too much of a big deal out of something because something bothers me (regardless of whether it bothers you) and I comment on it is something else.

And, hostile? I've been places that would make this seem like a teddy bears picnic.

Lida
September 16th, 2006, 04:33 PM
You're making a big deal out of the apparent big deal I'm making of the episode. The fact that my reaction to the episode is worth a post that is entirely about my reaction to the episode seems to be overkill.

And, I didn't take an oath that I would only react to things if I could consistantly react the same way in each episode. I reserve the right to hate one thing in an episode and absolutely love the same thing in another. And, to like when one character does something, and get annoyed when another character does it. It may not be fair, but I'm okay with that.



Uh, you don't need to be a writer to critique writing. Or else, why have an audience? Might as well only let writers read books or watch tv shows/movies/plays. But, I'd be happy to send a link to my fanfic if it somehow makes me more qualified to express my opinions on the show.
Sorry, but I don't allow myself to get sucked into arguments anymore. You are right, one does not need to be a writer to critique someone's writing, however, not all critiques are equal, are they? As for your Fanfic, I would seriously love to read it. I have been pleasantly surprised by the caliber of many fanfics I've read.

As a "budding" author, I may be a tad sensitive....if I offended anyone, mea culpa, and I apologize. Hmmm, if we are supposed to express our feelings....why am I being made to feel I committed a faux pas? Oh well, have a great evening....need to get back to packing. ;)

Dani347
September 16th, 2006, 04:34 PM
Well it seems the majority loved the episode and thats music to my ears. I hated how many people bashed Memento Mori as I thought it was great and really showcased Claudia's acting ability as "Lifeboat" showcased Michael's. I loved this episode. I was shocked and saddened at Emersons death as I really liked him but I loved everything about this ep. I am so sick and tired of everyone picking apart not seeing the gate in every ep and the Paring of Mticheel/Teal'c and Vala/Daniel. I love those pairings and feel they mesh so well together. I really love this ep and I can't wait for Quest part 1 and Return part 1. The only thing is th ****ing 6 month hiatus! DAMN YOU SCIFI! KISS MY MICKTA!


Get out the wet noodles and get ready to spank me. Why, why, why do people get upset when others don't like episodes? If you love the pairings, why isn't it enough to simply say you love the pairings, and not go on about the fact that others don't? I don't see any reason, when I'm objecting to them constantly pairing up the same people, to add "and I'm so sick of those people who love seeing Daniel and Vala together, and Mitchell and Teal'c" or "I want to see more of the Gate, and I wish those people who like seeing space ships would shut up about how great they are."

Does it really bother people so freaking much that others might have a totally different reaction than they do to a freaking tv show?

Yeah, I know. I said I was going to be good. *bends over for well deserved paddling* (just not too hard, since I said that for the last episode, not this one)

Descent
September 16th, 2006, 04:35 PM
Debate is one thing. Telling me that I'm making too much of a big deal out of something because something bothers me (regardless of whether it bothers you) and I comment on it is something else.

And, hostile? I've been places that would make this seem like a teddy bears picnic.

So my opinion on your opinion isn't debating? :P

And yes, hostile. Seems everything posted these days is met with some sort of hostility. Very sad considering this should be a place where people are supposed to have fun.

Dani347
September 16th, 2006, 04:43 PM
And yes, hostile. Seems everything posted these days is met with some sort of hostility.

You're absolutely right. For example, someone says "I didn't like such and such a thing in such an such an episode." A comment like that is met with responses such as "I'm so sick of people bashing the episode, and it doesn't bother me that so and so did this, so why on earth would it bother you, and you shouldn't say it, and let me tell you how wrong and silly you are to even mention it, because having a problem with the episode, especially if it's something that I don't find to be a problem is so wrong and bad and how do you live with yourself? Bad fan! Bad! No biscuits for you!"

Dani347
September 16th, 2006, 04:46 PM
Danala

First, again, great post. But, for this little bit, let me let out a hearty *snort* And, now, please stick out your tongue. No, farther. Now, bite down hard.

JohnDuh
September 16th, 2006, 04:47 PM
Actually, that only makes it MORE realistic. Things in space rarely come to a 'complete' (relatively speaking) stop in space. Also the Odyssey actually has retro-thrusters you can see on the underbelly to slow, stop, or reverse thrust the ship. Something as large as the Odyssey isn't just going to stop on a dime. .

Yes it should if they have retro thrusters, there is no inertia. Of course if they don't ahve retro thrusters they can't stop they have to swing. But not this slowdown, which looked rather bad.

grasshopper64
September 16th, 2006, 04:48 PM
I didn't like this ep much, not as bad as memento mori, but still too many things wrong with it for me.

Firstly at times I felt like hitting Daniel (and I mean that in the nicest way:))
His snarkiness was way OTT, did he take a mega dose of caffeine or something. I think he misses Jack.....

As has been mentioned I am getting bored with the continual pairing up of Daniel and Vala, wasn't so bad this ep. but it's like they can't be separated. Enough already. I found their comedy routine too much, but then oh I forgot, the show's a comedy now......

The Lucian Alliance just bores me like The Trust, I just can't get interested in them. And killing Emerson, haven't enough characters been killed off already. I kind of liked him.

The whole beaming in and out is just getting too easy, I know people have been saying this for a while, but they are overdoing the whole spaceship thing. What happened to the round, spinny thing, called the STARGATE, bring it back;)

Overall I give it 4/10

Also once again SGA was so much better for me this week

Descent
September 16th, 2006, 04:53 PM
You're absolutely right. For example, someone says "I didn't like such and such a thing in such an such an episode." A comment like that is met with responses such as "I'm so sick of people bashing the episode, and it doesn't bother me that so and so did this, so why on earth would it bother you, and you shouldn't say it, and let me tell you how wrong and silly you are to even mention it, because having a problem with the episode, especially if it's something that I don't find to be a problem is so wrong and bad and how do you live with yourself? Bad fan! Bad! No biscuits for you!"

Yes, apparently creative criticism goes over some people's heads.

Not even ;), :) or this :P make people know its in a lighthearted manner so *bang* they take it hard.

JohnDuh
September 16th, 2006, 05:06 PM
Here ya go:

http://www.sff.net/people/Geoffrey.Landis/vacuum.html

Shorter to quote NASA:

"You do not explode"
http://imagine.gsfc.nasa.gov/docs/ask_astro/answers/970603.html

Maxum
September 16th, 2006, 05:15 PM
I see your point, and agree with you to an extent. However, that being said, I think that the whole spaceship/alien enemies scenerio is quite new to the military people who are placed in these situations. SG1 being the vanguard of such situations, and usually held in a place of highest esteem, looked up to as the go-to people, I bought it that whoever the EO was, he immediatly deferred to anyone from SG1 that walked onto the bridge. And rightly so- even if Daniel isn't military- he's 'been there, done that'. Any officer with half a brain and the will to survive would say 'Be my guest'.

Yeah, I agree with you on this point. I don't think any eyebrows were raised because SG-1 is pretty famous among the military or any member of the SGC. Also, since the bad guys seemed intently interested in members of SG-1, it would stand to reason that any military personnel would defer to Sam, Teal'c, or Daniel in a moment of crisis. The only part I don't buy, and I didn't realize I'd have a hard time with it, frankly, is that Vala is regarded as a member of SG-1. I think I would have preferred if the Lucian Alliance refer to SG-1 and only Sam, Teal'c, Mitchell, and Daniel. I don't know. For some reason, it didn't feel right. I'm so used to the enemy demanding the heads of SG-1, and that meaning: Jack, Daniel, Teal'c, and Sam. I don't mind Mitchell and Jack trading places, right now, but for some reason, it didn't seem right at all with adding Vala to that mix. I feel this way mostly because Vala really hasn't had many missions at all with SG-1 for the enemy to even associate her as a part of SG-1.

I think I would have waited a little longer to have Vala made a member of SG-1. It would have been something to play up to as the season ends next year. Just my opinon.

betjam
September 16th, 2006, 05:17 PM
I thought this episode was good--especially Sam waiting until she was back with the other crew members before letting her emotions out. It was just right that she become emotional. And not because she's a woman, she's human. She witnessed someone die, someone who was trying to protect her. That scene was very important. We would all need a chance to "take a moment" if we had to deal with that.

I'm bothered by Daniel in this episode. I know the show likes to have some comedy, but it seemed too forced on me. Does that make sense? Someone by now has said that better than me.

I miss the stargate (I know, I've said that before). But I feel the need to say it when I'm watching a show called Stargate.

I thought the show had a good twist with Cam using the ring twice and it not being very obvious.

Maxum
September 16th, 2006, 05:19 PM
guess that must be the answer instead of "We need someone to drive this barge - I know let's get the archeologist!"

Daniel wasn't trying to drive the barge, he was trying to stall and communicate with the other ship. Communication, debate, diplomacy, and stalling is something Daniel is more than qualified to handle. He never took the chair to actually try and FLY the ship. I believe he was called over when the other ship hailed them.

Dani347
September 16th, 2006, 05:19 PM
Here's the grand total of things I liked about the episode - Sam. I thought she did good, liked her emotion, found her competant, and liked the realism of what's his face's intimidation tactics. I personally liked how Emerson bought it. I thought it was realistic, and again, gave me a nice chuckle. I liked the switch at the end with it being Mitchell, since I wasn't expecting it. And, even though there still hasn't been any meaningful interaction, I do like that they let Sam and Vala spend a little time together. That's it. So, this episode has faired better than Gemini, Grace, Yuckhole Extreme, and The 4th Horsemen II, my episodes with no redeeming factors.

nccjones
September 16th, 2006, 05:22 PM
I see your point, and agree with you to an extent. However, that being said, I think that the whole spaceship/alien enemies scenerio is quite new to the military people who are placed in these situations. SG1 being the vanguard of such situations, and usually held in a place of highest esteem, looked up to as the go-to people, I bought it that whoever the EO was, he immediatly deferred to anyone from SG1 that walked onto the bridge. And rightly so- even if Daniel isn't military- he's 'been there, done that'. Any officer with half a brain and the will to survive would say 'Be my guest'.

I understand why you would think that, but really, the Air Force is not going to let a civilian (let alone an archeologist) command an Air Force vessel no matter what his experience on an elite team is. Of course I'm just going by the Navy since I'm in the Navy, but the only time I've seen a civilian take command of a Navy ship is when the port authorities come onboard to guide a ship into certain ports, but that's always with the CO, XO and OOD overseeing it.

Emerson was the only one killed, I just find it totally unbelievable that there was no second in command of the ship (or any kind of chain of command on the bridge) unless it was Major Marks, but then he should have automatically sat in the CO's chair. I know they were doing repairs, but that's why there is something called General Quarters...all personnel have their own stations. Scenarios are always in place if the Captain can no longer be in command.

I have to keep telling myself to just enjoy the show for what it is...entertainment, and it's still good entertainment. I'm really going to miss it :(

Dani347
September 16th, 2006, 05:26 PM
I understand why you would think that, but really, the Air Force is not going to let a civilian (let alone an archeologist) command an Air Force vessel no matter what his experience on an elite team is.


I get that they wouldn't let a civillian do it. But, why would being an archeologist be an extra point against him doing it?

Maxum
September 16th, 2006, 05:33 PM
Well, after reading the last bunch of posts, I am beginning to see why SciFi cancelled SG-1.....and don't be surprised if Atlantis doesn't make it to episode 100. :( Since so many of you are putting down the writing, please keep me apprised of your own endeavors in the field of TV screenplays or even Fanfic. I am always looking for a good read.

Our posts are not an indication of why SciFi cancelled SG-1. We are simply critiquing an episode, and if you read back through all the Season threads, we've been doing it for years.

Also, most posters, overall, said the episode was good. It could have been better, as any show usually can be better. It doesn't mean any of us are going to stop watching. I plan on watching until the very last piece of film unspools - and I'll still be giving my opinion.

nccjones
September 16th, 2006, 05:36 PM
I get that they wouldn't let a civillian do it. But, why would being an archeologist be an extra point against him doing it?

Because think about it, even though he's gone through the gate for 10 years, his expertise has always been his background. Yeah, he learned how to use guns over the years, but where was his training to actually command a ship and to understand it's systems and give orders? He didn't even know anything about the weapon's system.

I love Daniel, don't get me wrong, but that was just a totally unbelievable scenario. There would have been a chain of command in place to have taken over the command position.

BTW, I agree with you that when a poster makes a personal jab at another poster...it's not debating :)

jenks
September 16th, 2006, 05:45 PM
Liked this episode, we learned that the majority of the Alliance are **** scared of the Tau'ri...

Does anyone get the feeling that those aliens are from another galaxy? Netan said to one of them 'you are the biggest fool in two galaxies' which made me wonder...

Dani347
September 16th, 2006, 05:46 PM
Because think about it, even though he's gone through the gate for 10 years, his expertise has always been his background. Yeah, he learned how to use guns over the years, but where was his training to actually command a ship and to understand it's systems and give orders? He didn't even know anything about the weapon's system.

I love Daniel, don't get me wrong, but that was just a totally unbelievable scenario. There would have been a chain of command in place to have taken over the command position.


I'm not debating that he should have done it. It just sounded funny that him being an archeologist would be specifically mentioned. Wouldn't all civillians lack the training to command a ship or understand the systems, not just those civillians that are archeologists? It sounded something like, "If he were a hair dresser, maybe we could overlook the problems, but an archeologist just blows any believabilty out of the water."

BTW, I have no idea why I cast Daniel as a hair dresser in that example. Maybe because I really need to wash mine.

eta: And, I wasn't upset or even bothered that you said that it wasn't realistic that Daniel was doing it. People have brought up "and he's an archeologist!" specifically before as an additional thing when Daniel does something that they wouldn't normally have a civillian do, and I always find it funny that his archeological background gets mentioned in times like these. Why not him being a linguist? But, that just goes to show how little they let him use those skills. Can't even get someone to say something negative about him being a linguist.

Mitchell82
September 16th, 2006, 05:47 PM
I apologise as no hostility was meant. I have no problem that some don't like certain things. What IRKS me is hearing the same thing day after fay week after week in different threads. The things people complain about are always the same. I happen to like Vala,Cam and the pairings and others don't. I just get sick oif the whole Cam/Vala thing. I have no problem at all with some people likeing one thing and others not. I just get tired of the repetivie bashing of the same thing.

nccjones
September 16th, 2006, 05:49 PM
Our posts are not an indication of why SciFi cancelled SG-1. We are simply critiquing an episode, and if you read back through all the Season threads, we've been doing it for years.

Also, most posters, overall, said the episode was good. It could have been better, as any show usually can be better. It doesn't mean any of us are going to stop watching. I plan on watching until the very last piece of film unspools - and I'll still be giving my opinion.

Very good post...I agree. Even though I definately had some nitpicks, I did find I enjoyed this episode and I'm looking forward to a second viewing.

nccjones
September 16th, 2006, 05:51 PM
I'm not debating that he should have done it. It just sounded funny that him being an archeologist would be specifically mentioned. Wouldn't all civillians lack the training to command a ship or understand the systems, not just those civillians that are archeologists? It sounded something like, "If he were a hair dresser, maybe we could overlook the problems, but an archeologist just blows any believabilty out of the water."

BTW, I have no idea why I cast Daniel as a hair dresser in that example. Maybe because I really need to wash mine.

Agree and understand (ummm, not that you have to wash your hair). I guess I threw in the archeologist because it added to my argument that it was an unbelievable situation...such as a hair dresser :daniel:

Dani347
September 16th, 2006, 05:54 PM
Although, I'd be willing to suspend all disbelief if there was a hair dresser. "You can try beaming up, and if you make it, we have to do something about those split ends!"

nccjones
September 16th, 2006, 05:59 PM
Although, I'd be willing to suspend all disbelief if there was a hair dresser. "You can try beaming up, and if you make it, we have to do something about those split ends!"

But then if the hairdresser was in the chair, we'd have to sit through them telling their stories about their respected other and their children, and then they'd gossip about the other team members...no no...a hair dresser would be too much.:hammond:

eta...this was by no means meant to disrepect any hair dresser out there. You are held in my highest esteem since you hold the scissors and have my hair in your hands. I also believe you can fly huge space ships if given the opportunity :)

Dani347
September 16th, 2006, 06:01 PM
But then if the hairdresser was in the chair, we'd have to sit through them telling their stories about their respected other and their children, and then they'd gossip about the other team members...no no...a hair dresser would be too much.:hammond:


I shouldn't laugh. You just know the writers are reading this, and going, "good idea. Wonder if we have to give credit when it happens in episode 20?"

nccjones
September 16th, 2006, 06:04 PM
I shouldn't laugh. You just know the writers are reading this, and going, "good idea. Wonder if we have to give credit when it happens in episode 20?"

Maybe Marty could use it for episode 300! Oh yeah....no episode 300....bummer. I'd be willing to take a hairdresser for episode 300.

GhostPoet
September 16th, 2006, 06:39 PM
AKA - lazy writers who think it's funny to hear aliens say they "screwed up" and the ever hilarious "damn you, Cam Mitchell!" I think the translator comes with a built in yuk yuk button.


It doesn't have anything to do with being a lazy writer. It's about having a sense of humor. *Shrug* I thought it was a great touch.

Skydiver
September 16th, 2006, 06:46 PM
Because she doesnt have any where near as much chemistry with either of those than she does with the guy playing Daniel?

Didnt think I was gonig to overlly like this episode at the beginning, but enjoyed it more as it went on. Shame that wierd alien guy at the end had to die though.
what Dani said, how do you KNOW if they have chemistry or not????

the writers seem incapable of prying vala from daniel's side (or him from her's) to let any of the others have a crack at it.

I for one liked the little snippits of vala/teal'c and vala/sam we got in counterstrike when MS took a week off

the character pairings are boringly predictible. these aren't unpaid fannish writers, they're pro's and pro's should be capable of writing anyone with anyonr...and if htey can't then they're not all that 'pro'

Either that or if theyu're so obsessed with Vaniel, then just send those two off somewhere and let cam, teal'c and sam have their own adventures

PG15
September 16th, 2006, 06:49 PM
Solid, solid team episode! I honestly did not see many of the twists coming (except the Cam = Netan part, that was pretty obvious). Unfortunately there aren't any real "holy crap!" moments, but like I said, the episode is pretty much solid all the way through.

So, the points:

I'm liking Netan. He started out as your usual bad guy/maniac, but now that we've seen his "brothers in arms" and others of his ilk, we can start to understand him as a man that's probably never happy thanks to all the people trying to overthrone him on one hand, and the Ori taking over on the other; not to mention the menial jobs with his acquisitions (ie. kassa crops not growing so well). I hope we see him a few more times. :)

Emmerson's dead! I'd probably not see it coming if I wasn't exposed to some spoilers by some n00bs though.

I loved all the conversation between Cam and Netan, especially how Cam played that part. It fit perfectly. I guess all airforce people are trained in dramatics too. ;)

Poor Tenat! I liked him and Jup...hopefully the latter shows up later on.

Like I said, this is a team episode, and an excellent one at that. Everyone played some sort of a role, and all of them were important in their own way. That's what team eps should be about, not whether they're together in the same room IMHO.

Captain Jackson! :D He loved it, he reeeealllly did.

Nice Sam/Vala moment at the end there. :)

And of course, the title change. Really loved that one. :D

I think what this episode showed is that Stargate can still be fun, beside all the drama of facing death every day. Looking back, one can really see the evolution that Stargate's gone through. From 4 simple people stepping through the gate and running into some minor trouble in some little village on some unimportant planet, to this. It's a legacy, really, and I'm glad it didn't stay like back then (not that "back then" was bad).

Score: 8/10

Skydiver
September 16th, 2006, 06:55 PM
i had no issue with daniel taking 'command' to bluff. Sam was needed in the engine room (although she was little more than vala's straightman...par for the course anymore), teal'c and cam weren't there and, hey daniel is a good bull*******.

he can delay and ruminate and BS with the best of them.

and they were also likely hampered by 'real life' issues....see they never bothered to designate a second in command of teh ship (marks is the only other officer that even has a name) and if htey'd have made a new character, well then they'd have to pay that person for a speaking role instead of the scale they get for being an extra

why do you think so many members of the SGC just stand there and nod? so they don't have to pay them as much

maybe if they'd have cut back on the flashy SFX they coulda paid an actor to be the official second in command, but we all know ont he show now, effects are all that matters, the actors are incidental

Fargater
September 16th, 2006, 07:02 PM
Our posts are not an indication of why SciFi cancelled SG-1. We are simply critiquing an episode, and if you read back through all the Season threads, we've been doing it for years.

Also, most posters, overall, said the episode was good. It could have been better, as any show usually can be better. It doesn't mean any of us are going to stop watching. I plan on watching until the very last piece of film unspools - and I'll still be giving my opinion.
:indeed:
Sometimes I think the more someone nitpicks, the more it means they actually love a show. It might not look like it to read some things that get said, but the poster is often pointing out such things precisely because s/he loves the show enough to really think deeply about the minutiae.

Mitchell82
September 16th, 2006, 07:11 PM
:indeed:
Sometimes I think the more someone nitpicks, the more it means they actually love a show. It might not look like it to read some things that get said, but the poster is often pointing out such things precisely because s/he loves the show enough to really think deeply about the minutiae.
I have to agree. While I love the show the more someone nitpicks it means they love the show but they just see things that irks. It's not the same with me as I can't find much if anything to complain about.

Maxum
September 16th, 2006, 07:15 PM
:indeed:
Sometimes I think the more someone nitpicks, the more it means they actually love a show. It might not look like it to read some things that get said, but the poster is often pointing out such things precisely because s/he loves the show enough to really think deeply about the minutiae.

Agreed. If SG-1 was a mediocre show for me, I wouldn't waste my time discussing it at length on a message board. I love discussing it with other fans, and even for those who don't like certain episodes, their reasons for their dislikes are usually well explained. I think most SG-1 fans generally like or love the episodes, but like anything else, the episodes are not perfect. Personally, I can only name a few that I really disliked, but even now, I'll still watch them if I catch it on a rerun. (now that's devotion)

Also, I just read your definition of a "Fargater." Glad you joined the SG-1 fanbase. I'm sorta the opposite of a Fargater. I have always watched SG-1, but I got pulled into Farscape by catching reruns that aired after SG-1. I'm a fan of both shows too.

ToasterOnFire
September 16th, 2006, 07:24 PM
Well, after reading the last bunch of posts, I am beginning to see why SciFi cancelled SG-1.....and don't be surprised if Atlantis doesn't make it to episode 100. :(
?? Are you claiming that posters on an internet forum nitpicking eps are the reason why SciFi cancelled SG1? And here I thought it had something to do with ratings...


Since so many of you are putting down the writing, please keep me apprised of your own endeavors in the field of TV screenplays or even Fanfic. I am always looking for a good read.
So one should only express their criticism if they are competent in the field? That means no more negative comments about a book if you're not a writer, no gripes about a song on the radio if you can't sing, and no critiquing artwork if you can't make a sculpture. And if that's the case, doesn't that mean that the opinions of people who love something are equally less valid if they can't do the things they claim to love? Or is this just a double standard for those holding negative views?

Dani347
September 16th, 2006, 07:25 PM
It doesn't have anything to do with being a lazy writer. It's about having a sense of humor. *Shrug* I thought it was a great touch.


Hey, I have a sense of humor.

*shots fire* *Emerson goes down, baby!* *Dani snorts with laughter*

Dani347
September 16th, 2006, 07:28 PM
(except the Cam = Netan part, that was pretty obvious).


*pouts* This is why I hate mysteries. I never figure out the obvious.

PG15
September 16th, 2006, 07:30 PM
then why not pair her up with teal'c or sam???? if they're really wanting to avoid the browder/black angle (truthfully, if it's that big of an issue they shoulda thought of that before they hired two actors from teh same show. and if the characters' writing was better, cam and vala would be so different from aeryn and john that it wouldn't matter)

this 'set' recipe of daniel/vala, cam/teal'c and sam on her own is old, really, really old.

character development comes from them interacting with each other, but if the pairings are never shaken up, there is no development and it stagnates

Well, Sam ain't there, and I don't think the army wants 2 aliens representing Earth. If Sam was there, she would also be one of the commanding officers, and probably doesn't want to lead Vala around every where with her.

Yeah, it's discriminative, but c'est la vie.

Col. Shadow Quinn
September 16th, 2006, 07:32 PM
Honestly, Marks was weapons, shields, comm, and propulsion. That's where his specialty is. Who woulkd be in Marks's place if he was in command of the Odyssey.

Dani347
September 16th, 2006, 07:36 PM
Well, Sam ain't there, and I don't think the army wants 2 aliens representing Earth. If Sam was there, she would also be one of the commanding officers, and probably doesn't want to lead Vala around every where with her.

Yeah, it's discriminative, but c'est la vie.But, when SG1 is offworld, it's not like the army (wouldn't it be the air force?) is there to tell them not to let Teal'c and Vala pair up together. And, didn't they do just that in Insiders? (Or whatever episode it wasthey couldn't superglue Vala to Daniel's backside) And, I think they should be able to let Vala and Mitchell pair up sometimes. Frankly, in the few times Vala and Mitchell have interacted, I haven't seen any Aeryn and John. But, I hate the image of these professional writers quivering in their shoes and scared to write anything just because someone might get upset. Especially since they never seem to quiver over anything I say.

"You won't pair up Daniel and Vala for 3 episodes in a row! You got that, writers!" *glares menancingly* *writers pop a few ribs laughing at me* See, never works for me.

Skydiver
September 16th, 2006, 07:36 PM
*pouts* This is why I hate mysteries. I never figure out the obvious.
well, i'm in the 'is that netan or daniel' camp, becaue wehn i was watching i was doing a running commentary for hte folks in samanda and i said 'netan goes to see snakehead...or is that daniel using the ring???'

course, i musta missed it when daniel pricked snakehead with the ring to make the reole stuff work


really? how else could they get out of it? the only other option that came easily to mind is cam brokering some sort of truce/armistace with netan and netan lets them go out of some respect thing

full.infinity
September 16th, 2006, 07:52 PM
*pouts* This is why I hate mysteries. I never figure out the obvious.
Don't worry, I didn't guess it either.

Oh, and this is mostly OT, but I would make a horrible showrunner because I would deliberately look for what the fans want and then deliberately do the exact opposite.

PG15
September 16th, 2006, 07:56 PM
But, when SG1 is offworld, it's not like the army (wouldn't it be the air force?) is there to tell them not to let Teal'c and Vala pair up together.

Actually, it would seem that Danny is the only one who has any sort of "control" over Vala's antics. How do I put this...it's like he is her big brother, while the others are just friends.

Something like that (probably offended a bunch of D/V shippers right then and there though).


And, didn't they do just that in Insiders? (Or whatever episode it wasthey couldn't superglue Vala to Daniel's backside)

I'm not sure, but they weren't alone. They had the rest of SG-whatever with them.

They were also not in a "meet-and-greet" situation like tonight, so Vala's behavior wouldn't have been as important.


And, I think they should be able to let Vala and Mitchell pair up sometimes. Frankly, in the few times Vala and Mitchell have interacted, I haven't seen any Aeryn and John.

That's because you are an anomaly. :p

Dani347
September 16th, 2006, 08:02 PM
Oh, and this is mostly OT, but I would make a horrible showrunner because I would deliberately look for what the fans want and then deliberately do the exact opposite.


Except when you did that, you'd find that half the fans wanted the exact opposite anyway. One fan wants one thing, it's a sure bet that another fan wants something else. So, if the writers try to please or even annoy the fans as a whole, there's always at least one who has the opposite opinion. And, then the writers implode from the strain.

full.infinity
September 16th, 2006, 08:05 PM
Except when you did that, you'd find that half the fans wanted the exact opposite anyway. One fan wants one thing, it's a sure bet that another fan wants something else. So, if the writers try to please or even annoy the fans as a whole, there's always at least one who has the opposite opinion. And, then the writers implode from the strain.
It's not going to be exactly 50-50. Especially if I look on Slashdot, where opinions are 3 times as polarized.

Except that I wouldn't actually do that unless I took control of something like Star Wars(Han would shoot first--and miss. Then Greedo would shoot, Han would die, and the story would end there. *evil laugh*)
If I actually had my own show(something incredibly unlikely) I would plan out everything beforehand a la Babylon 5 and wouldn't be able to do things like that.

Dani347
September 16th, 2006, 08:09 PM
I didn't mean half literally. I mean, you really can't write to please the fans, because the fans don't share one brain.

full.infinity
September 16th, 2006, 08:12 PM
I didn't mean half literally. I mean, you really can't write to please the fans, because the fans don't share one brain.
Oh, I know that, but there's always one that's most vocal and that's the one I'd write against. :P

Dromag67
September 16th, 2006, 08:29 PM
Does it really surprise you? People bang on every episode for one reason or another.;)

Personally, I thought it was great. From start to finish. I too will miss Emerson, but stuff like that does happen. Especially considering how ruthless the Lucian Alliance appears to really be.

I also loved the use of the chemical first discovered in the SG-1 episode where I took my "name" from.:) I'd definitely give this ep a 10/10.


Yeah even when they went back and took something we had used once before and revisited it, we hadn't used that ring pricker thing in a long time and its something everyone always asks for but no one seemed to care.

Along with a minefield that is something new.

It was really a fun episode.

Thought it was great episode after watching Memento Mori.

konartis
September 16th, 2006, 09:01 PM
great episode loved it lucien alliance is a good enemy. this is probably the best episode for me so far this season

suse
September 16th, 2006, 09:19 PM
[QUOTE=Zoser][QUOTE=chazevelt]

Well, yeah, and BTW, very funny indeed. However, in terms of actual, hands-on experience, Daniel [I]has[I] been in the driver's seat of a space ship quite a lot more than any given military person. Not to mention he wasn't actually plotting courses and doing the hands-on manuvering, he was simply being a liason between the bridge and his team. Again, with more experience in anticipating what could happen, how they think, a member of the elite team. So once again, IMHO, experience outranks... well, rank. LOL. Reminds me of the time that NID jerk said (sarcastically) that he was confident having an archeologist watching his back and Daniel replied by drawing his knife and asking which end the bullets went in. In an Earth-bound war/battle scenerio, sure it would be dumb for Dr. Jackson to be in that position. But given his past experience, I'd trust him to watch my back... and anything else he cared to watch...

I'd also expect the linguist/culteral liason to be faster on his feet. If only because he had done it before. At least once. Remember "Tangent" when they ran into a Goa'uld ship and he pretended to be the great and powerfull Oz? (With the other Goa'uld it was fine as he didn't have the cultural references to regognise the lie.)

Suse

Gate gal
September 16th, 2006, 09:35 PM
I really enjoyed this episode! I hated to see Emerson die, but at least the spoilers warned me and I managed to shut my kids' eyes on time. I nearly cried with Sam. (BTW, I think crying was the appropriate response since she watched him die and became the ranking officer of a captured ship in that same moment.) I enjoyed the interaction between Sam and Vala. AT and CB are both so good at communicating without words, and they play off each other well. (So glad the characters are friends, not rivals.) I may be the only person on the planet who loved the "Damn you, Col. Cam Mitchell" line, but it was so cliche that I couldn't help but laugh. I also really loved seeing Teal'c get mad. He is so in control most of the time. This was a nice change. The interchange between Daniel and the tech about preparing to fire was cute, too. The Lucian Alliance are my new favorite enemies. The Ori are fine, but these guys are just so much more on our level. Of course, I prefered the replicators to the goua'ld, so I may just like secondary bad guys best.

Racingtime
September 16th, 2006, 09:46 PM
i had no issue with daniel taking 'command' to bluff. Sam was needed in the engine room (although she was little more than vala's straightman...par for the course anymore), teal'c and cam weren't there and, hey daniel is a good bull*******.

That's how I felt as well. The way it played, I assumed that Daniel was specifically told by Sam that there was the possibility that he would have to stall for them so he went and sat there just in case. Plus, shortly afterwards we saw Daniel and Mitchell walking the hallways to meet up with Sam and Vala so I didn't have a problem believing that he was just up there to stall and then once done, he let someone better qualified to actually control, operate, and fly the ship to take over.

Zoser
September 16th, 2006, 09:49 PM
Originally Posted by Zoser
guess that must be the answer instead of "We need someone to drive this barge - I know let's get the archeologist!"
Originally Posted by Maxum
Daniel wasn't trying to drive the barge, he was trying to stall and communicate with the other ship. Communication, debate, diplomacy, and stalling is something Daniel is more than qualified to handle. He never took the chair to actually try and FLY the ship. I believe he was called over when the other ship hailed them.
Reply With Quote
I understand why you would think that, but really, the Air Force is not going to let a civilian (let alone an archeologist) command an Air Force vessel no matter what his experience on an elite team is. Of course I'm just going by the Navy since I'm in the Navy, but the only time I've seen a civilian take command of a Navy ship is when the port authorities come onboard to guide a ship into certain ports, but that's always with the CO, XO and OOD overseeing it.

Emerson was the only one killed, I just find it totally unbelievable that there was no second in command of the ship (or any kind of chain of command on the bridge) unless it was Major Marks, but then he should have automatically sat in the CO's chair. I know they were doing repairs, but that's why there is something called General Quarters...all personnel have their own stations. Scenarios are always in place if the Captain can no longer be in command.

I have to keep telling myself to just enjoy the show for what it is...entertainment, and it's still good entertainment. I'm really going to miss it :(
This is my point originally - Someone needs to be in command and it should be a trained officer of that ship if available.
Sure then Daniel can do his diplomatic communication thing but someone on a military installation needs to run the show. The old chain of command thing that O'Neill insisted on.

Racingtime
September 16th, 2006, 10:03 PM
Actually, it would seem that Danny is the only one who has any sort of "control" over Vala's antics.

Well if that's the case, then I frankly don't see why she would have any business being a member of SG-1. If she can't be paired up with anyone besides Daniel because he's the only one she'll listen to then that would mean that the rest of the team couldn't fully count on her to get the job done or back them up in the moments that Daniel can't be there by her side.

I agree with Dani as well in that I don't see Aeryn and John when Vala and Mitchell interact. Granted I've only seen a couple Farscape episodes (just couldn't get into it) but it was their choice to add both actors onto the show and having decided that, they can't be afraid to have the two of them interact just because some fans aren't able to separate the characters from two different shows.

the fifth man
September 16th, 2006, 10:08 PM
Watching this episode again earlier just re-affirmed how much I enjoyed it. IMO, it really was a great addition to Season 10. A lot of great moments, and a really good storyline. I sure hope we get to see more of the Lucian Alliance before this season is done.

esoap524
September 16th, 2006, 10:17 PM
I liked the humor, I liked Teal'c's reactions, I liked the falling apart ship bit... *chuckles* is it just me, or did they end up seeming a little more like the A-Team in that instance... with Vala filling in for Face as their con-man who got them something that flew... mostly... :D (ah, but if I begin to date myself... sorry...)


Oh wow, I had the exact same reaction! Vala seemed to be mirroring Face Man and Murdock all at once. But I loved it!

Heh! For some reason, I was getting a Han Solo vibe, probably because of the junky stuff she was able to acquire and then had to kick start.

And I really, really want that jacket she was wearing :D



I agree with Dani as well in that I don't see Aeryn and John when Vala and Mitchell interact. Granted I've only seen a couple Farscape episodes (just couldn't get into it) but it was their choice to add both actors onto the show and having decided that, they can't be afraid to have the two of them interact just because some fans aren't able to separate the characters from two different shows.

I've seen every Farscape episode AT least 3 times (some a lot more) and I can say, without a doubt, there is no John/Aeryn vibe between Ben and Claudia. There is a Ben and Claudia vibe that I've seen at conventions, the one that shows them to be very comfortable with each other, but no J/A stuff. John was crazy a lot of the time--and not "Cambo" crazy, but certifiable almost Baltar crazy. Other than the leather, there was nothing about Aeryn that's like Vala.

I do think, though, that the producers kept them apart on purpose for awhile. Whether it was to avoid inevitable John/Aeryn comparisons, or if it's because the actors themselves have very good chemistry, I don't know. I do see more Cam/Vala interaction these days and that's nice, but it's obvious that Vala has her sights set on Daniel in whatever capacity she can get him, either romance or friendship.


I may be the only person on the planet who loved the "Damn you, Col. Cam Mitchell" line, but it was so cliche that I couldn't help but laugh. .

I'm the 2nd only person who liked that line too. I loved it actually because it made me laugh.

PG15
September 16th, 2006, 11:14 PM
Well if that's the case, then I frankly don't see why she would have any business being a member of SG-1. If she can't be paired up with anyone besides Daniel because he's the only one she'll listen to then that would mean that the rest of the team couldn't fully count on her to get the job done or back them up in the moments that Daniel can't be there by her side.



By "control" I mean toning her down a bit, not making sure she doesn't blow up the Earth or screw up monumentally like that.

In other words, she would probably act "professional" with the others as well, but probably more flippant/undiplomatic/old Vala-like.

EDIT: I liked the "Damn you" line too! Like I said, this episode reminded me how SG1 is about fun.

the fifth man
September 16th, 2006, 11:18 PM
EDIT: I liked the "Damn you" line too! Like I said, this episode reminded me how SG1 is about fun.

Same here. I loved that line at the end there. I laughed my a** off.:D

KindlyKeller
September 16th, 2006, 11:32 PM
The "damn you" line was the only redeeming thing about the episode for me. It was indeed very funny. The rest of the episode was just boring, lazy, and cringe-worthy, I thought. I had very little fun watching this, but I still eagerly look forward to next week's show.

easyease
September 17th, 2006, 12:09 AM
I really enjoyed this episode, it seem's to be the first episode in ages where every member of sg1 played their part as a team. They do seem to be a real team now with the way they interact.
I was really sad about Emerson as he was a likeable character, I was impressed with Sam's reaction to his death (great acting A.T), and now Im curious to see if we get a real hard-faced [email protected] to captain the Odyssey in the near future.
one things for sure WE NEED MORE SHIPS (and i dont mean relationships).
I loved seeing Teal'c smack the crap out of three guys at the first chance he got, loved seeing Vala showing Sam that sometimes Gou'uld technology just needs a bit of a kick or shove, and i really loved the "Damn you Cam Mitchell" line.........cheesy as hell but very funny.
Sometimes people forget that there is room in sg1 for a bit of cheese, If I want constant tension and straight faces in my sci-fi I'll find it elsewhere.
This episode is another reason that makes me question the logic of the series being axed............Oh i forgot THERE IS NO LOGIC.


this is your correspondent from England signing off..................:)

wikeja
September 17th, 2006, 03:59 AM
Here's what happened with Emerson.
In a similar parallel uni Daniel was shot instead of Em.
He then began to ascend.
The &@$!! star (nearby) somehow interfered with D's ascension and the event crossed over and swept up Emerson. He will show up in the middle of Time's Square like the day he was born.
It could happen:o

On another note, Easy...
IRT ships or the lack of, we now know where a Lucian Alliance ship building facility is located and that seems to be a prime target for a precision strike.

Dutch_Razor
September 17th, 2006, 04:29 AM
If Daniel were to communicate with the enemy and stall them they would have to make it appear as if he was in command...

dosed150
September 17th, 2006, 05:25 AM
I thought it was funny that he was corrected that it only took a button to be ready and that he admitted he'd only said it because he thought that was what he was supposed to do.


i thought that was a joke about other sci fi like star trek they always say prepare to fire when its just press a button to fire

BJX
September 17th, 2006, 06:12 AM
Oh man, this was one of the worst episodes I have ever seen.
And what makes that all the sadder is the first twenty minutes were great.

The teaser was fantastic, Emmerson's murder was done very well and it was all setting up to be a really great episode and then it turned into the most cliched and cheesey thing I've probably ever seen. They somehow managed to drain every bit of dramatic tension out of the episode that had been built up in the first twenty minutes.

That alien thing, whatever his name is, is the most ridiculous character created, the acting from every supporting character (bar Emerson) was terrible, the Lucian Alliance are just so unnecessary and what an abysmal ending. "Yeah lets just shove any old crytal into place and we'll make the ship work." Oh, how I long for the days when the writers came up with clever ways to get the team out of trouble. And that leads me on to yet another episode where our team are wonderfully saved by being beamed out.

Damn this episode was bad. 3/10

Racingtime
September 17th, 2006, 07:09 AM
i thought that was a joke about other sci fi like star trek they always say prepare to fire when its just press a button to fire

From what people have said, it probably was. I don't actually watch much sci fi outside of Stargate so I barely ever pick up on those kind of things.

Major Gambit
September 17th, 2006, 08:16 AM
This was a great episode, and it was really sad to see Emerson die, he was a good character.


I wonder who will command the Odyssey now.

Lida
September 17th, 2006, 08:23 AM
<sniup>
As for Company of Thieves, as I have previously stated, I thought it was an excellent episode, the first this season that felt like the old SG-1. I hope this trend continues, but it saddens me, as we now have only 11 episodes left to watch. As for who will command the Odyssey? I hope whoever it is, they have up to date life insurance. ;)

full.infinity
September 17th, 2006, 08:37 AM
can i choose which ones they kill??? :D
Unless you get a job with the studio, probably not.

Well, I think some aliens should speak something other than English, at least once in awhile -or why else have a freaking linguist on the team? But, if they're not going to do that, then they should speak English at least a little differently. There's suspension of disbelief and then there's laziness.
But they haven't...for 10 seasons. Why start talking about it now? :confused:

And, drawing glasses on the screen with a marker doesn't work, since he keeps moving. joke.
Well, it works if you frame-by-frame.

Mitchell82
September 17th, 2006, 11:15 AM
Same here. I loved that line at the end there. I laughed my a** off.:D
So did I. I just really smiled when he said "Damn you Cam Mitchell". I loved that line.

full.infinity
September 17th, 2006, 11:27 AM
So did I. I just really smiled when he said "Damn you Cam Mitchell". I loved that line.
I agree too. It totally fit the over-the-top nature of the characters themselves.

Mitchell82
September 17th, 2006, 11:47 AM
I agree too. It totally fit the over-the-top nature of the characters themselves.
Yes it did. I hope we can see the LA again.

Kracker
September 17th, 2006, 12:04 PM
what Dani said, how do you KNOW if they have chemistry or not????


Chemistry is something that happens naturally regardless of writing, and she doesnt display it with those people. Quite simple really.

DianaT17
September 17th, 2006, 12:21 PM
Yay! I loved it!

Loughed out loud more than once. Interesting look behind the scenes of the Lucian Alliance and sad to see Emmersen(sp?) go. Shocking pointless death, too, which is good since it was surprising and non-cliche-like.

Nice to see Sam as the commanding officer of the ship. And loved seeing Daniel embarass himself in that chair. :)

And LOVED seeing Vala in the intro running after them to walk into the gate! :vala:

stewsith
September 17th, 2006, 01:10 PM
One of my favourite episodes this season! Great team interaction, a few surprises expecially emersons death. I knew he was supposed to die this episode but it was so sudden expecially how they shot him multiple times even though he was dead. At least we dont have to have any crazy fan theories on if hes not really dead ;) . I loved that they included something from a previous season with the reole chemical, it made it feel more like old sg1.

Also I noticed that they added vala going through the gate at the end of the opening credits which made me laugh because she had to run to catch up and daniel waited for her lol.

Dani347
September 17th, 2006, 01:19 PM
Chemistry is something that happens naturally regardless of writing, and she doesnt display it with those people. Quite simple really.


People also have to have contact to display chemistry. If someone is constantly around one person, how can you know if they naturally have chemistry with anyone else?

Anyway, the show isn't "Chemistry Match!" and as far as I know, Stargate teams aren't made up on the basis of chemistry. Plus, remember, there's no one right answer for who has chemistry with someone. If they actually let Vala spend some more time with others, there might very well be people who do think she has chemistry with them. I don't want to imply that chemistry automatically equals ship, but obviously some people must believe she has chemistry with Teal'c, since there's a shipper thread. And, I'd bet you'd find a lot of people who would see chemistry between her and Mitchell and her and Sam -if they bloody let them spend even half the time she spends with them that she spends joined at the hip with Daniel.

And, since when do writers write a script based soley on chemistry? I expect realism, and realistically, I don't have chemistry with everyone I spend time with. It's not even an issue. Vala works with everyone on SG1, and chemistry or not, (again, that's in the eye of the beholder) she should be able to work with each member, not just Daniel. If the writers are hemmed in by something as elusive as chemistry and they can only put Vala in scenes with someone they feel she has chemistry with, they had no business whatsoever making her a part of the team. They should have just made her Daniel's girlfriend (gag) and put a scene in every episode where she either visited the SGC to see him, or where he went home and spent time with her. (double gag) But, it's shoddy writing (yeah, I'm criticizing the writing) to make her a part of the team that last I saw consisted of more people than Daniel, and only let her interact on a regular basis with just Daniel. Chemistry or not.

PG15
September 17th, 2006, 01:28 PM
For the record, we have seen Vala with the others, like in Uninvited.

Farscapefan
September 17th, 2006, 01:32 PM
For the record, we have seen Vala with the others, like in Uninvited.

And Insiders.

DEM
September 17th, 2006, 01:38 PM
For the record, we have seen Vala with the others, like in Uninvited.Yes, and for me that is what makes the 'other' (read: most) episodes so frustrating (esp. these last two). I thought she was great with Carter in ... I guess it was Uninvited, or maybe it was Insiders. In fact, I posted a facetious lament somewhere about the good chem between AT and CB.

However, you'll notice that Daniel was in neither Uninvited nor Insiders, so the writers were 'forced' to write Vala with other people. It shouldn't be like that.

PG15
September 17th, 2006, 01:47 PM
Oh yeah...interesting.

We did get a good short scene between Sam and Vala at the end of this ep though.

Farscapefan
September 17th, 2006, 01:49 PM
Oh yeah...interesting.

We did get a good short scene between Sam and Vala at the end of this ep though.

Exactly. And it didn't feel "forced" at all.

The Shadow
September 17th, 2006, 01:52 PM
Sometimes I feel like our ship commanders are getting the red-shirt or something....

Is it just me or do we always have the most trouble with other humans in the galaxy?

Let's do a count.....

1. We lost Daniel after his daring rescue of Langara in Season 5, and what did we get in return....oh yeah...Daniel being labeled as the bad guy...

2. We lost the Prometheus and Col. Pendergast while trying to keep the peace between the Rand Protectorate and the Caledonians...and what did their sacrifice give us? Nothing...the two sides eventually destroyed each other...wasting us a pretty darn good ship and a awsome commander...

3. And now in Season 10, once again we get knocked around by other humans.....the Lucian Alliance..we almost lost our last ship....we once again lost a darn good commander, Col. Emmerson. It's like other humans don't know what's good for them......I think next time we should just let them rot on their own.....

Really....all we try to do is extend a helping hand....and what do we get in return? Our own people dying.......we should never help any other humans anymore......they should be albe to take care of themselves form the Ori....hell...we took out the Goa'uld pretty much single-handed...we don't need those no good stupid moron humans anyway.....I'm sick and tired of losing our good ships and people to other humans....Ori and Goa'uld I can understand...but other humans just really tick me off...

With that said.....this ep was really great....Emmerson's death didn't surprise me as much as Pendergast but it did saddened me. And his death really showed the hands of the Lucian Alliance, and just what kind of sick, twisted, and evil people they really are.......

Am I glad we declared war on them...it's about time we let other humans know that we aren't just gonna sit around while they're killing our people...we're not gonna let that stand......it's an all out war...they can bring all they got, but the Tau'ri of Earth are not gonna be knocked aside that easily....we took out the Goa'uld...we're not afraid of anyone else!!!

The Lucian Alliance better watch out...cause SG-1 is back with a vengence!!!

the fifth man
September 17th, 2006, 01:52 PM
Exactly. And it didn't feel "forced" at all.

I totally agree. I think Vala is getting along just fine with the other members of SG-1 besides Daniel.

Dani347
September 17th, 2006, 02:02 PM
Exactly. And it didn't feel "forced" at all.


You're looking at the word forced in a totally different way than I think DEM meant it. It's not about how it feels. They couldn't rely on putting Vala with Daniel for the majority of an episode in Insiders or The Uninvited, because MS wasn't there. Therefore, they were forced to let Vala interact for a much larger part of the time with the others. That interaction may have felt natural, but given that it only happens when MS isn't around (short scenes don't count) says that they won't let Vala spend significant time with anyone else, unless MS isn't around and they have no other choice. That's what was meant by forced, not how the scenes feel. If I get locked in a room with someone for two hours, I'm being forced to interact with them. I may find I get along with that person, and have a good time, but it doesn't change the fact that we were forced together.

When they can have some scenes between Vala and Teal'c, Mitchell, or Sam that cannot be described as "little" or "tiny" and where there's depth to the scenes, and those scenes happen in episodes that MS is actually in, then I'll say they're actually allowing her to interact with everyone else, and not just writing it when they have no choice.

It's not about how Vala gets along with anyone. It's about writing scenes where the audience can see Vala interacting with the others -as much as she interacts with Daniel. As of Memento Mori, Vala is a member of SG1. All of SG1. Last I heard, her official title wasn't Daniel's Snuggle Honey.

Uber
September 17th, 2006, 02:22 PM
Chemistry is something that happens naturally regardless of writing, and she doesnt display it with those people. Quite simple really.To you. For me I see a lot of chemistry. Different than what she has with Daniel, but different does not equate to non-existent.

I like seeing her play off of Sam because it's clear she respects her, but I think she's still trying to feel her out to determine how to read her. More than that, I think she's amused by Sam's almost obsession with rules and protocols. With Teal'c, I see a nice chemistry in the making as well. Playful like the one she shares with Carter but with different undertones. And frankly, I like her paired with Teal'c and Sam much more than I do seeing her paired with Daniel...mainly because neither Teal'c nor Sam change personalities or shove her around or treat her like a nuisance to the same degree he does. Vala also doesn't act as childish around Sam and Teal'c as she does with Daniel. I think there's lots of potential for the chemistry between Sam and Vala and Teal'c and Vala.

But then, chemistry is in the eye of the beholder. For example, some people see tons of chemistry between Sam and Jack while others don't or at different degrees. Does that make one side wrong and another side right? Of course not.

Back to Daniel and Vala. I really don't like what is happening to him. His behavior in CoT was just mindboggling. He continues to seem distrustful of Vala only a week after telling her how welcome she is and that he believes in her and so forth. She's trying to work on saving Sam and he's pestering her, as though that's going to speed things up. His attitude for most of the second half was way too flippant. It was like he was trying to channel Jack O'Neill or something and it just rang false to me. Contrast his stall tactic here with the one he used in Tangent, where he identified himself as the Great and Powerful Oz. The humor worked there for me because it was subtle and snarky and Michael Shanks played it as the straight man. Here it seemed as though he was trying to be the smart aleck that Jack was and it just didn't come off right for me.

Skydiver
September 17th, 2006, 03:05 PM
You're looking at the word forced in a totally different way than I think DEM meant it. It's not about how it feels. They couldn't rely on putting Vala with Daniel for the majority of an episode in Insiders or The Uninvited, because MS wasn't there. Therefore, they were forced to let Vala interact for a much larger part of the time with the others. That interaction may have felt natural, but given that it only happens when MS isn't around (short scenes don't count) says that they won't let Vala spend significant time with anyone else, unless MS isn't around and they have no other choice. That's what was meant by forced, not how the scenes feel. If I get locked in a room with someone for two hours, I'm being forced to interact with them. I may find I get along with that person, and have a good time, but it doesn't change the fact that we were forced together.

When they can have some scenes between Vala and Teal'c, Mitchell, or Sam that cannot be described as "little" or "tiny" and where there's depth to the scenes, and those scenes happen in episodes that MS is actually in, then I'll say they're actually allowing her to interact with everyone else, and not just writing it when they have no choice.

It's not about how Vala gets along with anyone. It's about writing scenes where the audience can see Vala interacting with the others -as much as she interacts with Daniel. As of Memento Mori, Vala is a member of SG1. All of SG1. Last I heard, her official title wasn't Daniel's Snuggle Honey.


which is precisely what i've been saying. vala isn't ALLOWED to so much as share a short exchange with anyone but daniel, unless of course, MS takes a week off and the writers have two choices...let vala talk with one of those other three folks or write her out of the show

Vala is half of Vaniel and the writers seem incapable of doing anything with her that isn't tied to Vaniel.

what can this mean for Vala? well let's play the most optimistic and say that s11 miraculously happens somewhere...but MS chooses to not take part....since Vala is inseparable unless she's part of Vaniel, will Vala then face the 'we don't know what to do with you so...eh, we'll just replace her with someone more versatile.'

By making Vala inseparable from the ship they're forcing upon folks, they're making the character unable to stand on her own. vala will only be in the show if she's half of Vaniel and if the Daniel half takes a walk, oops, there goes Vala too

Especially since we're also dealing with writers that are incapable of having a female character that's strong enough to stand on her own, i wouild think anyone that wishes for Vala's longevity to not be too fond of this obsession the writers have iwth Vaniel.

Vaniel makes Vala weak and disposable and, all of a sudden, Claudia's future wiht the show is tied to MS's future with the show...which makes her vulnerable

Dani347
September 17th, 2006, 03:33 PM
And, when was the last time Daniel was allowed to spend any real time with anyone other then Vala? Morpheus (where, surprise! They wrote Vala as being left behind while everyone else went off world). Oh, we had a few scenes in MM, again with Vala totally separated, and those scenes were mainly just him being in the same room with the others, nothing deeper than that. It's like, unless they write Daniel and Vala being on different planets or one of them is missing, they will not write it where Daniel isn't stapled to Vala. Can you think of any other two characters that spent that much time together except in extreme cases? Maybe Mitchell and Teal'c, since that seems to be the other prefered pairing, and even they break that up a little bit more than the D/V combo. Pegasus Project being one example.

If the writing calls for the team to have to split up in the course of an episode, I want them to be together for the beginning (and that's more than just the teaser), for the split to be something other than Daniel/Vala, Teal'c/Mitchell, and Sam. Lets have Daniel and Mitchell off somewhere. Or Daniel and Sam. Daniel and Teal'c. And, let Vala spend some quality time in the same episode with either Mitchell, Teal'c, or Sam. Then, let them periodically all come together as a group. Don't worry. The bracelets have worn off. Neither character will spontaneously combust if a few episodes have them interacting more with the other members of the team.

suse
September 17th, 2006, 04:06 PM
Honestly, Marks was weapons, shields, comm, and propulsion. That's where his specialty is. Who woulkd be in Marks's place if he was in command of the Odyssey.


Does the Odyssey only fly 8 hours a day? Or do they get attacked only on his shift? There should be at least 2 others able to handle his responsibilities. Not that I think he's even close to ranking officer anyway. I'm just sayin'...

I agree with Sky's assessment. Less actors with lines so not as much money paid out....

Suse

suse
September 17th, 2006, 04:09 PM
well, i'm in the 'is that netan or daniel' camp, becaue wehn i was watching i was doing a running commentary for hte folks in samanda and i said 'netan goes to see snakehead...or is that daniel using the ring???'

course, i musta missed it when daniel pricked snakehead with the ring to make the reole stuff work


really? how else could they get out of it? the only other option that came easily to mind is cam brokering some sort of truce/armistace with netan and netan lets them go out of some respect thing

It was there. I saw the prick. lol :eek: Though I'm not so sure how Mitchell made sure Tanen(?) knew who he was supposed to be impersonating. Egads! Could it be a plot hole?!? Not a chance! :eek:

Suse

Descent
September 17th, 2006, 04:10 PM
Shouldn't the Odyssey supposedly have an XO (don't say Sam) in case this very situation was to happen. Where was he/she?? Just a thought. :mckay:

golfbooy
September 17th, 2006, 04:23 PM
It was there. I saw the prick. lol :eek: Though I'm not so sure how Mitchell made sure Tanen(?) knew who he was supposed to be impersonating. Egads! Could it be a plot hole?!? Not a chance! :eek:

Suse
I haven't said anything about this, mostly because I was unsure if I was correct. All previous evidence indicates that the Reolle chemical makes all people see the same person, doesn't it? That is, it only induces the image it's engineered for, right? So Tenat should also have seen Kefflin, not Netan. I don't know why the switch was necessary in the first place. How does his playing Netan make that final situation on the bridge substantially different?

I mean, everyone in The Fifth Man saw Lt. Tyler, even Janet back at the base. And both Lord Yu and Osiris saw Jaren in Summit after being pricked by the same ring. Ostensibly Tyler would have been able to make others see someone else, but he was Reolle. That was his ability. So this is just one big honkin' hole in the story that doesn't make any sense to me and indicates a severe lack care on the part of the writers, who apparently can't be bothered to stick to their own canon or even to make up some excuse for it. Again.

Oh, and I've only watched this one twice, but when Mitchell slaps Tenat on the arm, I don't see him wearing the ring. But whatever, I guess.

Mitchell82
September 17th, 2006, 04:43 PM
I totally agree. I think Vala is getting along just fine with the other members of SG-1 besides Daniel.
So do I. I think she meshes perfectly with the whole team.

keshou
September 17th, 2006, 04:47 PM
*snip*

By making Vala inseparable from the ship they're forcing upon folks, they're making the character unable to stand on her own. vala will only be in the show if she's half of Vaniel and if the Daniel half takes a walk, oops, there goes Vala too

Especially since we're also dealing with writers that are incapable of having a female character that's strong enough to stand on her own, i wouild think anyone that wishes for Vala's longevity to not be too fond of this obsession the writers have iwth Vaniel.

Vaniel makes Vala weak and disposable and, all of a sudden, Claudia's future wiht the show is tied to MS's future with the show...which makes her vulnerable
Hmmm....you could even say we've already seen this happen before in that the writers don't seem to know what to do with Sam now that Jack is gone. ;)

I don't think Vaniel/Danala - whatever the silly stuck-together term in favor is - makes Vala weak particularly. Makes Daniel look a little silly at times but mainly when MS does a little too much mugging and eyerolling for the camera. (although at times I quite like them together)

I wouldn't worry about Claudia though. No. 1 although Vala's strongest relationship is currently with Daniel, when they *have* mixed her with the other characters Claudia seems to be able to spark up the chemistry quite well (imo, of course). No.2 as long as the Ori storyline exists, Vala has the stronger tie to that storyline than almost anyone else in the cast, via Adria.

Since MS didn't sign on for S11 in the first place, it's certainly possible that he considered S10 the end of the road for him. But since S11 is highly unlikely, I would think most of the cast would be willing to consider the TV movie/miniseries route. Much less of a time commitment and leaves them free to pursue other work. And it's a paycheck! :cool:

SGalisa
September 17th, 2006, 05:03 PM
just a tidbit nit-pick for now, and I usually don't post those things...

someone on these wonderful GW forums started a *Vala with or without pig-tails* type of topic elsewhere... and I thought Vala's past episode pig-tails weren't that bad looking. But this time was the ultimate ouch! Who's ever idea it was to divide her hair into pig-tails and bundle them up into a bun should know how difficult it is to walk around all day with a heavy amount of hair to begin with, and poke a dozen bobby-pins or whatever in to hold the entire bundle up. Action shots might surely loosen up whatever was holding her hair up - did to mine every time (and my hair is thinner/not as thick and lucious as Claudia's).

Claudia (as Vala) didn't look like she could move as easily without losing those piled up bundles. Curl it, braid it, wave it (make it wavy), but next time - bunning the pigtails, might not be a good idea. Bunning a pony-tail is okay, but might not work in serious action shots... a bunned ponytail (and certainly a styled bunned ponytail) seem to be for the more dressy occasions. ...Unless you take a giant barrett and pin it in a giant loop thingy like most people do in a hurry nowadays, but even that might fall or slide out after too many action shots / movements...just a thought for the hair-stylist people...

re: Cam Mitchell pretending to be someone else...
I was wondering if that hallucinogenic drug ever wore off after a certain while, and if the person who got pricked, would need to be repricked after so many hours... ??

keshou
September 17th, 2006, 05:04 PM
I haven't said anything about this, mostly because I was unsure if I was correct. All previous evidence indicates that the Reolle chemical makes all people see the same person, doesn't it? That is, it only induces the image it's engineered for, right? So Tenat should also have seen Kefflin, not Netan. I don't know why the switch was necessary in the first place. How does his playing Netan make that final situation on the bridge substantially different?

I mean, everyone in The Fifth Man saw Lt. Tyler, even Janet back at the base. And both Lord Yu and Osiris saw Jaren in Summit after being pricked by the same ring. Ostensibly Tyler would have been able to make others see someone else, but he was Reolle. That was his ability. So this is just one big honkin' hole in the story that doesn't make any sense to me and indicates a severe lack care on the part of the writers, who apparently can't be bothered to stick to their own canon or even to make up some excuse for it. Again.

Oh, and I've only watched this one twice, but when Mitchell slaps Tenat on the arm, I don't see him wearing the ring. But whatever, I guess.
Well I remember Osiris/Sarah recognizing Daniel in Summit/Last Stand - before he had a chance to prick her with the ring and convince her he was Yu's servant.

But I did go check the transcript and according to Jacob's exposition at the beginning of Summit, this was a modified version of the chemical used by Reolle. Jacob told Daniel that he had to prick Yu and then Yu would believe Daniel was whoever he said he was. It only worked because they were at the "Goauld Mardi Gras" and no one else knew the servant Daniel was impersonating.

So I think Company of Thieves follows this line. Until Tenat showed up no one else knew that Mitchell wasn't Kefflin since no one had seen the guy (except Netan).

Once Mitchell pricked Tenat he was able to convince him he was Netan by simply stating he was Netan.

Wraith Warrior
September 17th, 2006, 05:13 PM
Great episode.

Daniel: Ah...you should probably prepare to return fire.
Marks: Just for the record, I'm always prepared, all I have to do is push this button here.
Daniel: Right..I thought that's what I thought you were supposed to say.
Marks I know. :jack_new_anime06:

I loved how Mitchell pretended to be Natan at the end, these days I can usually see the twist coming but that one caught me off-guard. Allan McCullough has really brought some extra talent to the SG-1 writing team.

ShardsofGlass
September 17th, 2006, 05:26 PM
And, when was the last time Daniel was allowed to spend any real time with anyone other then Vala? Morpheus (where, surprise! They wrote Vala as being left behind while everyone else went off world). Oh, we had a few scenes in MM, again with Vala totally separated, and those scenes were mainly just him being in the same room with the others, nothing deeper than that. It's like, unless they write Daniel and Vala being on different planets or one of them is missing, they will not write it where Daniel isn't stapled to Vala. Can you think of any other two characters that spent that much time together except in extreme cases? Maybe Mitchell and Teal'c, since that seems to be the other prefered pairing, and even they break that up a little bit more than the D/V combo. Pegasus Project being one example.

If the writing calls for the team to have to split up in the course of an episode, I want them to be together for the beginning (and that's more than just the teaser), for the split to be something other than Daniel/Vala, Teal'c/Mitchell, and Sam. Lets have Daniel and Mitchell off somewhere. Or Daniel and Sam. Daniel and Teal'c. And, let Vala spend some quality time in the same episode with either Mitchell, Teal'c, or Sam. Then, let them periodically all come together as a group. Don't worry. The bracelets have worn off. Neither character will spontaneously combust if a few episodes have them interacting more with the other members of the team.

Amen! I have nothing further to add, other than that I'm getting so disgusted with the predictable pairings that I don't even feel like watching this Friday's show.

And, I guess I do have something to add. I'd also like to see other characters besides Vala have something personal happen to them in an ep that'll give them a chance to grow and change and where we can learn a little bit about them too. Since the start of this season, it's been nothing but Vala when it comes to emotional growth and storylines, and I'm really, really tired of it.

This is not a slam against the character herself, just a slam against the writers for being stuck in some insane rut.

ShardsofGlass
September 17th, 2006, 05:28 PM
It was there. I saw the prick. lol :eek: Though I'm not so sure how Mitchell made sure Tanen(?) knew who he was supposed to be impersonating. Egads! Could it be a plot hole?!? Not a chance! :eek:

Suse

I think it worked this way. Before Mitchell (aka Tanen) walked into sight on the alien ship, someone announced him as Tanen. THerefore, the head alien thought he was going to see Tanen and that's what the chemical made him hallucinate as soon as Mitchell came into the room. If no one had announced him ast Tanen, then the head alien would've seen Mitchell. At least taht's how I saw it.

suse
September 17th, 2006, 05:29 PM
I agree too. It totally fit the over-the-top nature of the characters themselves.


It did fit. Unfortunately it's the OTT nature of the characters that I didn't like. :S

Suse

suse
September 17th, 2006, 05:54 PM
Chemistry is something that happens naturally regardless of writing, and she doesnt display it with those people. Quite simple really.


In your opinion. Naturally. :)

Suse

majorsal
September 17th, 2006, 05:57 PM
Hmmm....you could even say we've already seen this happen before in that the writers don't seem to know what to do with Sam now that Jack is gone. ;)




that's what skydiver was getting at. ;)

and besides, they've literally erased all of sam's storylines (killed off characters associated with her) and then closed off other storylines to give to mitchell and vala. :S

they could have let her continue to lead sg1. oops.

they could have explored her past host abilities and memories. oops.

they could have shown her relationship with her dad. oops.

they could have shown her relationship with cassie. oops.

they could have shown her relationship (romantic) with jack. big oops.

they could have shown her (demented) relationship with replicarter. oops.

they could just bring up a past experience/event and explore it more. waiting...





sally :)