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GateWorld
April 27th, 2004, 09:24 PM
<DIV ALIGN="center"><TABLE WIDTH="450" BORDER="0" CELLSPACING="0" CELLPADDING="7"><TR><TD><DIV ALIGN="left"><FONT FACE="Verdana, Arial, san-serif" SIZE="2" COLOR="#000000"><A HREF="http://www.gateworld.net/atlantis/s3/308.shtml"><IMG SRC="http://www.gateworld.net/atlantis/graphics/308.jpg" WIDTH="160" HEIGHT="120" ALIGN="right" HSPACE="10" VSPACE="2" BORDER="0" STYLE="border: 1px black solid" ALT="Visit the Episode Guide"></A><FONT SIZE="1" COLOR="#888888">ATLANTIS SEASON THREE</FONT>
<FONT SIZE="4"><A HREF="http://www.gateworld.net/atlantis/s3/308.shtml" STYLE="text-decoration: none">MCKAY AND MRS. MILLER</A></FONT>
<FONT SIZE="1">EPISODE NUMBER - 308</FONT>
<IMG SRC="/images/clear.gif" WIDTH="1" HEIGHT="10" ALT="">
Rodney McKay is reunited with his estranged sister back on Earth, who has given up a brilliant career as a scientist to raise a family.

<FONT SIZE="1" COLOR="#888888"><B><A HREF="http://www.gateworld.net/atlantis/s3/308.shtml">VISIT THE EPISODE GUIDE ></A></B>
SPOILERS! PHOTOS! AND MORE!</FONT></FONT></DIV></TD></TR></TABLE></DIV>

Bragi
September 8th, 2006, 07:01 PM
Wow.

No more ZPM.

Lt. Colonel Ryu Gaia
September 8th, 2006, 07:02 PM
Wow! Fantastic episode.

The first half had me laughing nonstop, and the backhalf was absolutely touching. Brilliant work. I loved Mckay's turnaround in the end, and having Shepphard show Jeannie the video from "Letters from Pegasus" was an appropriate and very heartwarming touch. The last few moments of the episode set my heart aflutter - the team interaction that's now so established in SG-1, the chemistry that made us all fall in love with the franchise, is now truly beginning to be reflected in full swing on Atlantis.

Perfect episode, 10/10!

GATEWORLD SCALE: ***1/2

Descent
September 8th, 2006, 07:02 PM
Yet again, Atlantis is outclassing SG-1 this season. What a great episode, really touching stuff. I hope McKay's sister makes a comeback sometime in the near future. A great ending scene as well...but where the hell is Carson??

9/10 from me

-1 for NO Carson! Hes in the opening credits, use him!! Also, there was too much technobabble for me really.

Backlash
September 8th, 2006, 07:03 PM
Am I the only one sick of the whole "no ZPM" thing? You'd think the Ancients would have directions on how to build them in their database.

Other than that, I liked this episode.

smushybird
September 8th, 2006, 07:03 PM
Meredith. I love it. :)

NowIWillDestroyAbydos
September 8th, 2006, 07:05 PM
Great episode, 3rd best this season (behind Sateda and Progeny). Good ep for McKay, along with his goofy first name. I thought I saw a Kull Warrior in the trailer for next week's episode, looks interesting

siXbrownSnakes2
September 8th, 2006, 07:06 PM
My second favorite this year behind Sateda. Although they were picking on Rodney a little bit, I found it to be a fun episode and one that was needed. Even though there's no ZPM now, it's kind of a snag in between the lines. They don't have the power to defend themselves anymore (which was what made S1 quite amusing, inspiring eps such as The Eye/Both Sieges) but they still can get back to Earth to "make up" for it.

All in all a 9/10 ep. Humorous, good character development, and a fun episode all around. One of Martin Gero's best scripts.

And Phantoms looks great. Strange how there are so few spoilers. Seems to be the "mysterious" episode of the year.

sharkface217
September 8th, 2006, 07:07 PM
Anyone notice that in the beginning of the episode he said "Zee Pee Emm" but later he used the "Zed"?


Overall, I loved the episode. 10/10

KindlyKeller
September 8th, 2006, 07:07 PM
Well, I made it known in the live thread how disgusted I was by Rodney's (yet again) HORRIBLE treatment. Let's just humiliate him again and again and again and again and again and again and then have Sheppard put some "we were just playing" white-out on it. This was very, very difficult to stomach.

IMForeman
September 8th, 2006, 07:08 PM
I loved it. 8 out of 10. The character interaction is great between Rodney and Jeannie. I think casting David Hewlett's sister was brilliant.

The only real problem I had with it was the insane amount of technobabble in this story. I mean, look at how much more elegantly Doctor Who sold a similar concept without bogging it down in all this complex sci-talk.

-IMF

FerCryinOutLoud!
September 8th, 2006, 07:08 PM
I absolutely loved this episode. For someone who is terribly close to his younger sister i could't imagine drifting apart. The team bonding was great. I loved it completely and whole heartedly. It was touching and had all of the great elements of drama. Whoever said Sci Fi can't be good drama was a moron.

10/10

MarshAngel
September 8th, 2006, 07:08 PM
You know I almost feel like the writers were channeling some of the things we've asked for in this episode. I actually really enjoyed this one. It was funny and it accomplished a lot in terms of background history, future setup, character interaction and adding back a sense of danger. My only complaint, and it's really quite minor is that I never got the real sense that the universe was really at any risk.

I can't get over "meredith". That's just funny to me.
I loved McKay's interactions with his sister.
We got to see a previously unmentioned part of the city and technology that was actually put to good use.
We finally had some real acknowledgement that they spend time together and have some fun.
The ZPM's depletion put some sense of imminent doom back in the show...

all in all quite good. I'm satisfied.

TattertotLove
September 8th, 2006, 07:08 PM
Great episode! I wasn't to excited about a Mckay episode but I was really pleased with the way it turned out. Kate did so good in this episode!
The only thing that bothered me was that stupid laugh that Shepperd had. That just seemed to stick out to me and it got annoying after hearing it three times.

I loved the ending!! Great way to end an episode like this.:)

Quinn Mallory
September 8th, 2006, 07:08 PM
This is probably one of my favorite episode of the show (definitely in the top 3). The sibling interaction was great and then you throw the extra McKay to the mix. And they cap the showed off with that line about Teyla (just to make sure she is still alive and kicking on the show).

The depleted ZPM should make for some interesting storyline in the future as well.

KindlyKeller
September 8th, 2006, 07:10 PM
Another thing I was going to mention was that SG-1 and Atlantis tonight both relied on silly, childish type humor. Ronan and Teyla cracking up: "you had underwear on your head!" What is this, Boy Meets World?

Descent
September 8th, 2006, 07:10 PM
Yes, there was way too much technobabble in this episode.

Quinn Mallory
September 8th, 2006, 07:11 PM
The only real problem I had with it was the insane amount of technobabble in this story. I mean, look at how much more elegantly Doctor Who sold a similar concept without bogging it down in all this complex sci-talk.


Ok, I don't watch Dr. Who as regularly as I watch Stargate but I liked the amount of technobabble on the show. They do try to make it vague enough but self-consistent that I think (and maybe just wishfully hope) that it make regular people be more interested in physics. I give it my seal of approval as a physics grad student.

freyr's mother
September 8th, 2006, 07:12 PM
{Mod Snip} what the hell are we going to resort to now? We lost the frickin ZPM. No shield, no cloak, drones are useless. The only way we're going to be able to do anything now is by hooking up like 200 naquadah generators. We need to find one or more ZPM's in the next episode.

FerCryinOutLoud!
September 8th, 2006, 07:12 PM
I really liked McKay's/David's sister too. She's a great actress and her portrayel of the character was spot on. I almost wish she were a regular cast member. Though story-wise it probably couldn't work out seeing as how she has a family and all.

prion
September 8th, 2006, 07:12 PM
Wow! Fantastic episode.

The first half had me laughing nonstop, and the backhalf was absolutely touching. Brilliant work. I loved Mckay's turnaround in the end, and having Shepphard show Jeannie the video from "Letters from Pegasus" was an appropriate and very heartwarming touch. The last few moments of the episode set my heart aflutter - the team interaction that's now so established in SG-1, the chemistry that made us all fall in love with the franchise, is now truly beginning to be reflected in full swing on Atlantis.

Perfect episode, 10/10!

GATEWORLD SCALE: ***1/2

I really enjoyed that little segment where Shep shows Jeannie the videotape Rodney made, which obviously never made it back to Earth... very nice. And good team interaction.

Somehow, I never took SHeppard for someone who would play golf!

And what the heck are they going to do with NO ZPM!?

Let's see, what else, off the top of my head...

...Just the sibling interaction, or rather, lack of it, or well, the adversarial aspect of it. Very well done.
...That everybody seemed to like the parallel universe Rodney sooo much better, but then in the end, Rodney discovers they didn't like him as much as it seemed...
...Jeannie's reaction to the fact that her brother has been working for the government, the look on her face with Hermoid (priceless!)

lirenel
September 8th, 2006, 07:13 PM
Great ep! I was glad the team reconciled at the end, plus Rodney huggage! Only thing missing personally was some McWeir (though the 'two McKays are better than one' part was close!)

Loved the Meredith part! As I mentioned on the Live thread, I knew that Meredith was a guys name in the past, like Ashley, that is now predominately a girl's name. Still, I can imagine how much teasing he went through in school, since teachers always use real names before asking for the prefered appellate, but by then the damage would have been done.

I hated seeing the real!Rodney emotional whumpage, but looking back it wasn't actually too bad. You had the scenes with alt!Rodney, Jeannie, and the team, and the Sheppard-Alt!Rodney golfing, but you also had Sheppard couselling real!Rodney on Jeannie, Sheppard showing Jeannie the Letters from Pegasus message, and the team bonding scene at the end.

Was also glad that the ZedPM was depleted. It's a cause for more danger and can easily set up Atlantis getting cut off from Earth again when SG-1 ends. (Dedalus gets sent to fight the Ori, and the Gate road thing is destroyed and wham, no more contact) Though now Rodney actually has someone on earth to keep in contact with, so that would be bad.

All in all a 9.8/10, with .2 off for no Carson and very little Elizabeth.

AGateFan
September 8th, 2006, 07:13 PM
Fantastic episode. Very solid.
It had everything. It had humor, it had serious, it had character development, it had TEAM. Great ep.

Some standout parts (just off the cuff)
Merideth - ROFLMAO
Rod Mckay and Ronan are going to SPAR... nice handshake.
The Letters from Pegasus video (for a bit I thought they forgot about it)
The team at the end trying to make Mckay feel better.

The other Universe has 2 ZPMs. Would be nice if they came and helped us out in some ep in the future.. could be cool.

I was suprised they completely depleted the ZPM... I was thinking they would leave 5-10% but I guess its not needed now that they will have the stargate version of "jump gates" and now that the Chair can be run by naquida generators.

Great ep, two thumbs up.
Atlantis proves it still rocks and will reward scifi for renewal.

GateMan2000
September 8th, 2006, 07:15 PM
Deal like they did before....Honestly...I would have said Oh well other universe..bye bye :)

ShadowMaat
September 8th, 2006, 07:16 PM
Well, I'm no genius and I've certainly never met an AU double, but Rodney's paranoia about not being liked and walking in on others having a good time and fearing he was being deliberately left out and whatnot struck very close to home for me.

I watched the ep despite my deep reservations about it and I'm glad I did. I think the fact that I'm only spot-watching now makes the whole Rodney-centric stuff easier to stomach. Good stuff, IMO. Good compare/contrast between Rodney and Rod, and although I understand why it was set up the way it was I wish we could have seen some of the "annoying" side of Rod because the team's complaints about him sounded very fabricated. I know that's probably the point, but it'd have been nice to know that Rod wasn't perfect, either.

I was very disappointed in the "...and our Ronon" because I'm a Ford fan and I want him to still be a part of the team SOMEWHERE. Would have been a nice nod to the fans... and to Rainbow.

The set-up was a bit dodgy, but they made it work for 'em. More or less. ;)

Interesting that the ZPM is depleted. Wonder how long that'll last. :rolleyes:

Major_Griff
September 8th, 2006, 07:16 PM
"She's Married and she's my sister." I thought that was hilarious and then the Kirk thing to cap it off Oh my god! Over all very good ep 8/10.

freyr's mother
September 8th, 2006, 07:17 PM
Deal like they did before....Honestly...I would have said Oh well other universe..bye bye :)
That's what I would have said too. But we did kind of cause the problem.

miju
September 8th, 2006, 07:18 PM
This episode was so frustrating it's unbelievable - that the story disposed of the zpm in such a way........and it started out so good too I'm just so SO disappointed ............:mckay:

stealing zpm's from the asurans better be a major objective now

coolove
September 8th, 2006, 07:19 PM
Tonight was an okay episode. I liked the character moments between Rodney and his sister.

freyr's mother
September 8th, 2006, 07:20 PM
This episode was so frustrating it's unbelievable - that the story disposed of the zpm in such a way........and it started out so good too I'm just so SO disappointed ............:mckay:
That's exactly how I feel. Everything was fine until they decided to bring the ZPM into the whole matter.

Bragi
September 8th, 2006, 07:21 PM
Am I the only one sick of the whole "no ZPM" thing? You'd think the Ancients would have directions on how to build them in their database.

Other than that, I liked this episode.

Been over that a billion times on these boards.

Just 'cause you have the blueprints, doesn't mean you can build the plane.

Pocus
September 8th, 2006, 07:21 PM
Nice episode. I thought Kate Hewlett did an excellent job and hope they can fit her back in sometime.

It was neat for me to see Rodney realize some of his faults by watching Rod interact with the rest of his team. Who knows if he will change at all or if I even want him to. I like the Rodney of this universe.

There was lots of Shep/McKay interaction. Really loved how Shep was looking out for Rodney by showing the old video to Jeannie. He seemed to want her to know how much Rodney did care for her and how family is important to him. Rodney may not be able to show feelings very well, but he has them and they run deep. The end was nice when the team made Rodney feel comfortable and wanted in their group. He seemed to be a bit emotionally whumped throughout much of the episode.

I am so glad that we are seeing some downtime and group interaction in non stressful situations. This season, IMO, has done a great job in building the bond between characters and, I believe, between the audience and the characters. At least for me, I feel more connected to them.

AGateFan
September 8th, 2006, 07:24 PM
"She's Married and she's my sister." I thought that was hilarious and then the Kirk thing to cap it off Oh my god! Over all very good ep 8/10.
Forgot about that. Yes I LMAO at that one too.

FerCryinOutLoud!
September 8th, 2006, 07:24 PM
Did anyone find the Kirk comment to Shepherd from Rodney hilarious? It seems like a nod to the fans from the writers, who had made Kirking complaints on the forums.

For all of the people complaining about the loss of the ZPM. It's a good thing. It makes it necessary for the team to find more ZPMs in the future. They'll find more, i promise. They have to. Plus would the show be interesting anymore if everything were absolutely perfect? I mean if we had all the ZPMs we could want. We could make Atlantis fly and be a fully functional battle station, where would be the story in that? The Wraith would be no threat. We could go mop the floor with the Ori and Stargate would be as dull as Eureka is.

d10sfan
September 8th, 2006, 07:25 PM
Now that Atlantis has no ZPM, how long do you think it will be untl they find another one?

Oreo
September 8th, 2006, 07:29 PM
I enjoyed this episode except for one plothole. Whatever happened to the fact that a universe can't have two of the same person because of shifting or something. It happened on SG-1 with Sam.

Otherwise fun episode. I loved his sister, did a great job "acting" when she hasn't in the past. :)

IMForeman
September 8th, 2006, 07:30 PM
I enjoyed this episode except for one plothole. Whatever happened to the fact that a universe can't have two of the same person because of shifting or something. It happened on SG-1 with Sam.

Otherwise fun episode. I loved his sister, did a great job "acting" when she hasn't in the past. :)

The entropic cascade failure doesn't begin for several days.

ToasterOnFire
September 8th, 2006, 07:30 PM
Well I loved this ep. I knew I was going to be biased from the moment that I learned this was going to be a Rodney ep, but I was even happier to see that it was well written, we got some backstory (and saw some characters doing off-time things), and the plot kept me interested. Definitely won out over the SG1 ep tonight, and one of the best eps of the season so far.


-"Rod" was great fun, and I had a feeling that he would be the "cool" one and hit it off with everyone, leaving poor Rodney behind (actually, this whole ep is VERY similar to a fanfic written by PY a year or two ago...). DH put in just enough acting differences to recognize Rod as Rodney, yet not Rodney.

-alt!Shep was the arrogant jerk in that universe, heh. :D

-I was worried that the Rodney/Sam scenes were going to be focused on his crush on her and him acting awkward/dumb, but it appears that the writers may have finally moved beyond that. Bravo.

-Yeah I thunk, and I thought that the scene where Rodney was at Jeannie's door with flowers and said this awkward-yet-smiling "hi" was the cutest thing ever.

-Most of the Rodney/Jeannie scenes worked great, though there were a few that didn't work as well for me. The whole "I wanna push the button" thing comes to mind.

-The Merideth quip kinda came out of nowhere and after I heard it I knew it was going to be used just so the team could tease Rodney. Numerous times. (Yeah, I thought it was overused.) Didn't care for Ronon's underwear comment either. It's funny for Rodney to be the butt of the joke every now and then, but recently it seems like the writers go to him every time, which diminishes the character, IMO.

-Shep plays golf, heh (and JF has a great swing!). And I dunno, he was cleaning those golf clubs awfully...vigorously... :D

-Weir had a couple of scenes, Ronon and Teyla were limited to a couple of lines, and Carson was nonexistant. I knew this was going to be a McKay-heavy ep and I'm thrilled with that, considering he's the only character that really keeps me around nowadays, but I wish this ep would have been more like Sateda - screentime for the focused character (Rodney/Ronon), yet also reasonable screentime for everyone else too.

-"Two McKays are better than one" hmmm? ;)

-Bwa, he stole the statue off of Elizabeth's desk. ;) ;)

Descent
September 8th, 2006, 07:30 PM
I enjoyed this episode except for one plothole. Whatever happened to the fact that a universe can't have two of the same person because of shifting or something. It happened on SG-1 with Sam.

This was forgotten in "Ripple Effect" too btw. :mckay:

Sparky13
September 8th, 2006, 07:30 PM
Great episode!
Points:
--Very, very cool the way Jeannie had her brainstorm all of a sudden while watching the little train go over the bridge. Really a nice way to introduce her character's genius, especially when there were all of those pages with finger paint on them hung up all over the room. I just thought that that was an original way to present this character.
--Of course, the brother/sister interaction was wonderful. I really got a sense of Rodney (excuse me, Meredith) and Jeannie going through a transformation. There did seem to be an emotional arc that these two went through that culminated with the very touching scene at the end, which had me tearing up and wanting to call MY genius brother!
--How was this episode accomplished technically? I mean, Rodney actually appeared to shake hands with himself! I kind of reminded me of those hysterical MST3K lines from that horrid movie where the time traveler meets up with himself: "Thank me!" "I'm welcome!"
--Interesting that Sheppard gets up early to hit some balls around.
--Also interesting the Other Rodney's description of his team and how, warts and all, they are his team and he wants to return to them.
--Clever writing: McKay: "I destroyed a universe." Jeannie: "Rodney!!" McKay: "It was uninhabited!"
--Rodney's insecurities are so apparent in this episode. Sometimes it is hard to see through his arrogance, but in this episode so much of his personality is laid out there that I really felt kind of sorry for the guy. And also I wonder how his sister grew up to be so completely unlike him.
--I guess their dad is dead. Wonder what Mom's up to?
--This season is really crazy good!

The Sparkster

AGateFan
September 8th, 2006, 07:31 PM
I enjoyed this episode except for one plothole. Whatever happened to the fact that a universe can't have two of the same person because of shifting or something. It happened on SG-1 with Sam.

Otherwise fun episode. I loved his sister, did a great job "acting" when she hasn't in the past. :)
I had asked that same question and someone reminded me that they said it didnt happen in Ripple effect because of the proximities of the two AU. So I guess that is the same here. The AU were close enough together that the ECF didnt occur. I would have liked them to have acknowledge it as a potential problem though.

vaberella
September 8th, 2006, 07:34 PM
Alrighty...had to start saving my spot, cause I always have tons to say, and I hate ending up on page seven....What did I think of this ep...it was great. Was it wonderful? No. Was it comparable at all to the other great eps of this season? Nah...I don't think anything could be Progeny or SATEDA...really.

But I give this a:

8 out of 10!!


I want to make one comment. Who here remembers a sig by I think a McWeir...and it had alternative universe pics of the cast? It had Teyla as leader of Atlantis. John as a Dr., taking the place of Rodney. Rodney as a military man, and of course Weir as an Athosian?! I think it was PurpleYin's sig. Whoever it was, had it for a long bloody while!! When viewing this ep, it reminded me of that banner sig! Rodney is more like John and John ismore like Rodney and who else is the same or not. So that's a cool take on things and I liked it. I think the writers were checking out that person's sig and got the idea...not that it's very original, just cool to see.

Okay let's start with the ones who didn't get much love in the eps, shall we?!
I'll start with the people who really got no play cause there's not much to say.

:sheppard28: Got his moments, liked his personality. I mean it was John, not much to say. I liked his reaction to when he found out he was part of Mensa and a geek pretty much and acts a lot like McKay---he's a nerd/geek!! So that's interesting, I guess, I just got a kick.

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e308/vaberella/teylaanime18.gif All I got was she spent a lot of time laughing and sitting next to John, and across from Ronon----I got the impression everyone ate a lot. Did I love the ending...?! Of course I did. I thought it was cool and funny, and definitely great best friend vibe and cool companions.
:sheppardanime23: Teyla has a crush on one of the new marines!!
:teylaanime08: I do not! *kick*
It was a cool scene, and sadly gave us more Teyla than CG did...come on TPTB...get it together, Teyla rocks!!http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e308/vaberella/teylaanime21.gif

:ronananime28: He barely talked...just sat there and looked good. I guess that's a good purpose, but he never changed his chair...but his comment to Rodney was comical..about the underwear thing. Cute...:ronan:

:weiranime33: What to say? Not much on her man...she was just there. She was in a couple of scenes. I did notice when they were looking down at McKay copy, that she's significantly shorter than John. Never noticed before. That's pretty much all I got. I didn't hear much from her, that I can point something out.
-----------------------------------------------

The main players!!!

::zelenka25:: Okay now, for all the Zelenka fans, and he's my fave right after Rodney we got our ep, ya'll!! Woohoo!! It's great to see more of Radek and he was great, I even thought he sort of got a crush on Jeannie, just because she gave him some credit. Was it me or didn't he look like a tampon in that costume as they were building the device?! Okay maybe it was just me!!

Jeannie: Can I say a bloody great character?! I mean she really was great. I would love to see more of her. It's awful of me, but I was hoping they could wraith her husband and have her and her daughter come on board. Her interaction with Rodney was fantastic. Shoot, I'd lover her as a regular and just to have more interactions and it would be cool to see if her daughter was as much of a genius. I think the writers did a fantastic job and should make her a regular guest star, if not a regular...especially with McKay.

:mckayanime18: Well what can I say...it's McKay. By my sig you know who's my main cat. I thought McKay was great. i thought DH did a fantastic job and really knows how to play of his sister and vice versa. I give it far more credit than GUP (considering it's another McKay ep) mainly because we got to see the team. We got to see how he feels in the team, I liked the added dynamic of his double and then also his relation with his sister. It wasn't a boring ep for an ep that is McKay centric. It kept you interested and added and element to the McKay the character. We definitely got the inner feelings of the character besides teh shallow service, sort of like the ending of Trinity.


It's good to see things like that and when they play with the characters like that. It's like how Sateda worked out for both John and Ronon, that tingling inner working that we probably dont' always see, and I appreciated that the writers gave me that. I'd like more for the ladies... I only have two episodes for Teyla to memory but one for Weir. So it would be good to see more of this and with a little bit of plot and story added like in this one. It definitely was a team episode and the connection was there. It was a really good episode and I give it very high marks...saving McKay from the GUP disaster!! <---My personal taste!!


8 out of 10!!

Steven_the_Atlantean
September 8th, 2006, 07:34 PM
Wow.

No more ZPM.

Sorry, but I didn’t watch this episode yet, but I am just curious, what the hell happened to the ZPM ?

Descent
September 8th, 2006, 07:36 PM
Sorry, but I didn’t watch this episode yet, but I am just curious, what the hell happened to the ZPM ?

We drained it, now were without one...yet again. :mckay:

Steven_the_Atlantean
September 8th, 2006, 07:38 PM
We drained it, now were without one...yet again. :mckay:

How???

ShadowMaat
September 8th, 2006, 07:39 PM
I mean, look at how much more elegantly Doctor Who sold a similar concept without bogging it down in all this complex sci-talk.
Funny you should mention that because I had a total DW moment when Jeannie met Shep. His whole greeting to her and McKay's reaction... LOL! I expected him to say, "For you, saying hello IS flirting!" :D

edit: Oh, I do wish they'd avoided the golf thing, though. Too WOO.

BellaDona
September 8th, 2006, 07:40 PM
Loved this episode, but the Rodney + Rodney reminded me of the "Dimension Jump" episode of Red Dwarf with Rimmer & Rimmer, if that's not too obscure.

FoolishPleasure
September 8th, 2006, 07:44 PM
I loved the first half, and really enjoyed the scenes with Carter and McKay. It seemed to slow down a bit when the 2nd Rodney got "stuck".

The cafeteria scenes bothered me, with Rodney walking in on groups laughing at him behind his back. That just seemed rather mean-spirited to me, and it really hit home when my 14 year old said, "That's just mean." Plus those cafeteria scenes looked like they had all been filmed in the same day with just lighting changed in the background, and no one even getting up from their seats between filming. They could have at least changed tables, and Rachel was the only one who didn't seem to be forcing her laugh.

I really enjoyed Kate Hewlett and I hope they figure a way to bring her back. Loved the scenes of Rodney struggling to admit he cared for her. "Wuvs" him. :)

Glad that the ZPM is finally dead. Makes life much more interesting now!

Good to see Zelenka but is Beckett still on this show??? :S

freyr's mother
September 8th, 2006, 07:45 PM
Funny you should mention that because I had a total DW moment when Jeannie met Shep. His whole greeting to her and McKay's reaction... LOL! I expected him to say, "For you, saying hello IS flirting!" :D

edit: Oh, I do wish they'd avoided the golf thing, though. Too WOO.
They probably should have had him surfing.

ColCaldwell
September 8th, 2006, 07:45 PM
Hahah great Episode!! The best part was McKay calling Sheppard Kirk!! Hahahhaahahahahhhahahahahhaaha!

full.infinity
September 8th, 2006, 07:46 PM
This was forgotten in "Ripple Effect" too btw. :mckay:
Actually, it wasn't. It was mentioned that the proximity of the universes caused a lack of ECF.

Funny you should mention that because I had a total DW moment when Jeannie met Shep. His whole greeting to her and McKay's reaction... LOL! I expected him to say, "For you, saying hello IS flirting!" :D
:D


edit: Oh, I do wish they'd avoided the golf thing, though. Too WOO.
I almost expected the shot to go into the gate. They should have connected to a Milky Way gate and then they'd've beaten Jack's record :P

ShadowMaat
September 8th, 2006, 07:47 PM
The cafeteria scenes bothered me, with Rodney walking in on groups laughing at him behind his back. That just seemed rather mean-spirited to me, and it really hit home when my 14 year old said, "That's just mean."
Yeah, seemed a bit mean-spirited and hurtful to me, but then I was always an outsider in school so like I said earlier- that stuff hit a little too close to home.

Descent
September 8th, 2006, 07:47 PM
Good to see Zelenka but is Beckett still on this show??? :S

^^See^^

Yeah, his lack of screentime disturbs me as well.

ToasterOnFire
September 8th, 2006, 07:47 PM
I want to make one comment. Who here remembers a sig by I think a McWeir...and it had alternative universe pics of the cast? It had Teyla as leader of Atlantis. John as a Dr., taking the place of Rodney. Rodney as a military man, and of course Weir as an Athosian?! I think it was PurpleYin's sig.
It is indeed a sig by PurpleYin, and it's over here. (http://central.mcweir.com/images/photoalbum/album_4/photo_123_t2.jpg) :)

the fifth man
September 8th, 2006, 07:49 PM
Very good episode IMO. I love how we're seeing more personal moments between the team members finally.

Amanda Eros
September 8th, 2006, 07:51 PM
Wow.

No more ZPM.

I couldn't say it better even if I tried. :lol: I didn't see the whole episode, but I did catch the end. I guess they are going to have to go back to a Naquida generator system for power.

expendable_crewman
September 8th, 2006, 07:52 PM
OK, so no ZPM ...

Your brother beams you onto a battlecruiser in geosynchronous orbit around the Earth, and, yeah, you got to check out the next galaxy. Important project and all. And you get to work out that whole sibling issue thing while doing cool physics stuff.

Almost as good as brother and sister looking out the window at Earth while discussing saving the universe was the Sam/Rodney interaction.

I must admit I did not call the ending. When I saw Sheppard with a gold club, I thought we were going to find out we were watching the alternate universe.

I am in mourning for the ZPM. Atlantis took losing the ZPM better than I did.

Sparky13
September 8th, 2006, 07:52 PM
OMFG, what the hell are we going to resort to now? We lost the frickin ZPM. No shield, no cloak, drones are useless. The only way we're going to be able to do anything now is by hooking up like 200 naquadah generators. We need to find one or more ZPM's in the next episode.


Yes, yes! I forgot to mention in my earlier post just how...well...great it is that the ZPM is depleted because that opens up a huge number of interesting plot possibilities. I really wasn't all that keen on their being able to skip off to Earth just about anytime. Part of the general dramatic tension of the show in its first season was its inability to get back home again and having to come to regard Atlantis as "home," and thus worth defending. So, okay, now there is no available quick connection with Earth and that can't be good. Which, actually, is very good indeed!

rarocks24
September 8th, 2006, 07:58 PM
Okay, several things, I'm tired of TPTB taking things from us. The ZPM was proven it isn't a deus ex machina, if the Wraith showed up, it'd only be a few days before the ZPM was depleted anyways. That hive ship was heavily damaged, therefore, not a Deus ex Machina. The Orion, perhaps the only Deus ex machina, but she showed us how powerful ancient warships were. So, to TPTB, after reading spoilers for a certain upcoming episode in the second half of the season, will you please give us a power source.

rarocks24
September 8th, 2006, 07:59 PM
Yes, yes! I forgot to mention in my earlier post just how...well...great it is that the ZPM is depleted because that opens up a huge number of interesting plot possibilities. I really wasn't all that keen on their being able to skip off to Earth just about anytime. Part of the general dramatic tension of the show in its first season was its inability to get back home again and having to come to regard Atlantis as "home," and thus worth defending. So, okay, now there is no available quick connection with Earth and that can't be good. Which, actually, is very good indeed!

May I remind you that unless we resorted to stealing ZPMs, Earth's basically screwed if the Wraith determine that indeed Atlantis hasn't been destroyed.

vaberella
September 8th, 2006, 08:00 PM
It is indeed a sig by PurpleYin, and it's over here. (http://central.mcweir.com/images/photoalbum/album_4/photo_123_t2.jpg) :)
Thanks TOF...Good thing my photographic memory comes into good use, I wasn't really sure. I had to give you a green for the confirmation and definitely Purpleyin a green for thinking outside the box and coming up with wicked sig...and having her idea sort of come to life on screen...!! :D


OK, so no ZPM ...

Your brother beams you onto a battlecruiser in geosynchronous orbit around the Earth, and, yeah, you got to check out the next galaxy. Important project and all. And you get to work out that whole sibling issue thing while doing cool physics stuff.

Almost as good as brother and sister looking out the window at Earth while discussing saving the universe was the Sam/Rodney interaction.

I must admit I did not call the ending. When I saw Sheppard with a gold club, I thought we were going to find out we were watching the alternate universe.

I am in mourning for the ZPM. Atlantis took losing the ZPM better than I did.
No worries...by some chance they'll get a new one. Most likely, when the Asurans coming in TR1-2, I'm sure they'll be accompanied by a few zpms,and things will be all nice and dandy!!

Otera
September 8th, 2006, 08:01 PM
Funny you should mention that because I had a total DW moment when Jeannie met Shep. His whole greeting to her and McKay's reaction... LOL! I expected him to say, "For you, saying hello IS flirting!" :D

edit: Oh, I do wish they'd avoided the golf thing, though. Too WOO.
Me too!!

khd
September 8th, 2006, 08:02 PM
Yet again, Atlantis is outclassing SG-1 this season.

I've noticed that too. For the last 2 seasons SG-1 has had the better overall story arch that runs through most of the episode, but comparing night-to-night, about 75% of the time Atlantis has the better episode, even without the underlying story arch.

As for this episode, I thought I was quite good, great setup for 'The Return'. I especially like the shot were they turned to see how much power was left in the zpm and the monitor said "00" then the lights went out.

McKay and Mrs Miller gets "***/****"

Otera
September 8th, 2006, 08:04 PM
We have the same doll house as Jeannie has for her daughter!!!!!! kinda creepy...

JanusAncient
September 8th, 2006, 08:05 PM
Well, I liked the episode. But, I have to wonder if it was intentional on the part of the other Rodney, to completely deplete the Zero Point Module.

ShadowMaat
September 8th, 2006, 08:09 PM
What I don't understand is that if the bridge collapsed before Rod had "crossed over" how did he manage to do it at all?

Seastallion
September 8th, 2006, 08:10 PM
I really liked this episode..! :D

I would not at all mind if they brought McKay's sister back some time. I could see the 'Hewlittisms' in there alright..! :p It was also nice to have a small cross over with Sam! It was also very cool to see a 'cool' Rodney. :) Overall, I've got to give this episode an A+..! :D

^ (Shadowmaat) It was beginning to collapse, but it hadn't actually finished doing so yet. That was how he 'might' have been able to complete the trip back.

Pharaoh Atem
September 8th, 2006, 08:11 PM
Well, I liked the episode. But, I have to wonder if it was intentional on the part of the other Rodney, to completely deplete the Zero Point Module.
well rod did say that his reality had two zpm's

ToasterOnFire
September 8th, 2006, 08:14 PM
Rewatching it now, and I have to add that the music in the beginning when Jeannie was fingerpainting was spot on. :)

Thumbs up from me for more Jeannie!

ShadowMaat
September 8th, 2006, 08:15 PM
^ (Shadowmaat) It was beginning to collapse, but it hadn't actually finished doing so yet. That was how he 'might' have been able to complete the trip back.
Are you sure? Because I thought Jeannie said, "The bridge has collapsed! We've done it! Shut off the ZPM!" and McKay told them not to because Rod wasn't "there" yet.

Also, did anyone pick up on the fact that AU Team Atlantis was perfectly willing to destroy "our" universe to save their own? I wonder if "our" team would have done the same thing if the situation had been reversed.

Methinks they would have.

Captain-Peregrine
September 8th, 2006, 08:15 PM
What to say? What... to... say... Oh, right.


HOLY FREAKING CRAP! This was such a great episode! It is probably one of the best episodes I have ever seen. I loved seeing all these sides of Rodney--everything from AR coolness to our Rodney's lack of self-confidence. Poor Rodney.

And oh, God, the kid hugged him! lol "Uh... hello, little one." ROTFLMAO. But... the best part has got to be--"Your name is... Meredith?"

His name is Meredith Rodney McKay!? That is just too beautiful.

I can't keep my thoughts straight... I'm rewatching it now and it's sort of hard to concentrate. But this is such a good episode and I am so happy I taped it. I'll be watching this a million times... then I'll come back. :P

Yay! Two Rodneys, two Hewletts... it just doesn't get any better.

lol

Meredith...

Descent
September 8th, 2006, 08:15 PM
Thumbs up from me for more Jeannie!

Here here! I really loved the relationship between her and Mckay. Good call getting David's sister.

acdj31
September 8th, 2006, 08:17 PM
Great ep. Loved David's and Katie's performance in the show. TPTB better bring her back, somehow.




Your brother beams you onto a battlecruiser in geosynchronous orbit around the Earth, and, yeah, you got to check out the next galaxy. Important project and all. And you get to work out that whole sibling issue thing while doing cool physics stuff..

I wish my brother had a cool job like McKay. I would go, wouldn't everyone?
:mckayanime18:

Can't wait to see the movie David made with Katie. I hope it comes out soon. I will definitely watch it now after see them act together.

ILoveMe
September 8th, 2006, 08:20 PM
Meredith?! *falls down laughing*

I liked that Ronon got to be funny with the whole underwear on the head thing and awww the team told them that "Rod" was creepy and they prefer him, how sweet.

Damn, that sucks about the ZPM though. :(

Was anyone able to access the SCIFI site? I can't get it the password part to load! Urgh! I didn't want them to spoil me while I was watching the ep so I waited until it was over and now I can't see it!! AHHHH!!! SCIFI sucks!!

KindlyKeller
September 8th, 2006, 08:21 PM
To be blunt and petulant here before I put this behind me... this episode sucked, sucked, sucked. Much of its humor was cringe-worthy and the opposite of clever, the writers treated their own creations with utter contempt, and I wish I could erase the experience of watching this from my mind.

Now I shall go to bed secure with the knowledge that this is just a TV show and that by Sunday, I'll already be getting anxious waiting for next Friday to come.

ShadowMaat
September 8th, 2006, 08:29 PM
Much of its humor was cringe-worthy and the opposite of clever, the writers treated their own creations with utter contempt, and I wish I could erase the experience of watching this from my mind.
That's why I'm glad I don't really watch the show anymore. The humor IS exactly as you say (IMO, anyway) and McKay in particular is nearly always being ridiculed and/or humiliated. I prefer to laugh WITH the characters, not AT the characters and Stargate's humor simply doesn't operate that way. At least not anymore. *sigh*

If I still watched Atlantis regularly I'd probably feel the same way you do, but having some distance from it made me appreciate it more. I highly recommend doing the same. Watching intermittenly makes a lot of things much easier to stomach. ;)

ToasterOnFire
September 8th, 2006, 08:36 PM
Over on the TWoP boards, someone noted that Meredith is Old Welsh for "protector of the sea". Internet searching also revealed that it could mean "great ruler" or "sea lord". Awesome. :mckayanime03:

ETA: And "Rodney" could mean "Land Near the Water", "Famous One's Island", or "Hroda's island", where Hroda is German for fame. If you trust these internet sites, that is... (Not like that's intentional, since he got his name long before TPTB were working on the Atlantis show.)

ShadowMaat
September 8th, 2006, 08:37 PM
Yeah, but as the TWOP folks asked- can we actually credit TPTB for doing the research to come up with that, or did they just pick a "girly" name? :P

FoolishPleasure
September 8th, 2006, 08:37 PM
That's why I'm glad I don't really watch the show anymore. The humor IS exactly as you say (IMO, anyway) and McKay in particular is nearly always being ridiculed and/or humiliated. I prefer to laugh WITH the characters, not AT the characters and Stargate's humor simply doesn't operate that way. At least not anymore. *sigh*
This episode will insult anyone who has been bullied for being a "geek", just as "Irresistible" insulted a lot of the women in the audience. You might add that the continuous references to Sheppard being "Kirk" also insults a chunk of the audience who are tired of Sheppard behaving like a ho instead of a hero. The writers need to step back and analyze their "humor" angle.

I don't recall SG1 having this problem with "insulting humor".

Terrarin
September 8th, 2006, 08:38 PM
To be blunt and petulant here before I put this behind me... this episode sucked, sucked, sucked. Much of its humor was cringe-worthy and the opposite of clever, the writers treated their own creations with utter contempt, and I wish I could erase the experience of watching this from my mind.
Were you watching the same show? We who already loved Rodney's character are happy to see him grow a little as a person. He's vulnerabilities were exposed and ultimately he was affirmed by both his sister and his team...kind of a 'feel good' thing. :mckay:

Best Atlantis Ep.

(P.S. Isn't it funny how Sam provided a big part of the comic relief in both shows tonight?:sam:)

Hatusu
September 8th, 2006, 08:40 PM
Well, I made it known in the live thread how disgusted I was by Rodney's (yet again) HORRIBLE treatment. Let's just humiliate him again and again and again and again and again and again and then have Sheppard put some "we were just playing" white-out on it. This was very, very difficult to stomach.
David, don't talk to us, talk to Martin Gero. :P Mallozzi admitted there was a contest among the writers to see who could humiliate you the most.

Just kidding. You are not David Hewlett...........right? :S

vaberella
September 8th, 2006, 08:40 PM
Over on the TWoP boards, someone noted that Meredith is Old Welsh for "protector of the sea". Internet searching also revealed that it could mean "great ruler" or "sea lord". Awesome. :mckayanime03:
Exactly, I liked the name Meredith and didn't find that moment funny as others did. It was a cool name, it's like being called Carroll, these names were masculine before they were well known feminine names. I like his name and wouldnt' mind calling him Merry. Good choice TPTB!!


Well, I made it known in the live thread how disgusted I was by Rodney's (yet again) HORRIBLE treatment. Let's just humiliate him again and again and again and again and again and again and then have Sheppard put some "we were just playing" white-out on it. This was very, very difficult to stomach.
I actually totally agree with you, which is why I downgraded a bit of this ep. I got annoyed at times, and I do tend to get more annoyed by John's attitude, sometimes I wonder if he really likes Rodney. But overall, I let it slide. Sometimes i think Rodney's ego is strong enough to deal with it, and then at times, I just want someone to smack John!!

ShadowMaat
September 8th, 2006, 08:42 PM
We who already loved Rodney's character are happy to see him grow a little as a person.
Please don't presume to speak for all Rodney fans. I happen to be a fan of the character, but that doesn't mean I love everything about him and I certainly don't love the way he tends to be treated by those around him.

Random other note: Was it just me or in the scene where Sam, Rodney and Jeannie are on the Daedalus look a little odd? Sam just stared blankly at Rodney until her cue. Actually made me wonder if they filmed the scene together, 'cos I wasn't sure she was even staring at him, just at the space he was (or would be) occupying.

Seastallion
September 8th, 2006, 08:44 PM
Are you sure? Because I thought Jeannie said, "The bridge has collapsed! We've done it! Shut off the ZPM!" and McKay told them not to because Rod wasn't "there" yet.

Also, did anyone pick up on the fact that AU Team Atlantis was perfectly willing to destroy "our" universe to save their own? I wonder if "our" team would have done the same thing if the situation had been reversed.

Methinks they would have.


Yeah I'm sure. ;) Jeannie said, "The bridge is collapsing; we've done it!" This means that it was in the process of collapsing, rather than completely. I just watched it again to be sure. (Thank god for DVR's... :D ) So, yeah.

ShadowMaat
September 8th, 2006, 08:46 PM
Gotcha. Thanks for the check. :)

And speaking of Czech, nice touch having Rod say something to Radek in Czech. :D

ToasterOnFire
September 8th, 2006, 08:47 PM
Yeah, but as the TWOP folks asked- can we actually credit TPTB for doing the research to come up with that, or did they just pick a "girly" name? :P
Oh it's all but definitely the latter, but the meaning of the name is kinda cute in this context. Rodney, protector of the sea! Rawr! :P

Hatusu
September 8th, 2006, 08:51 PM
I enjoyed this episode except for one plothole. Whatever happened to the fact that a universe can't have two of the same person because of shifting or something. It happened on SG-1 with Sam.

Otherwise fun episode. I loved his sister, did a great job "acting" when she hasn't in the past. :)
Yes, it was like they forgot entropic cascade failure completely. Even if the shifting didn't happen right away, they knew it would happen soon. It would have given Rod's return more urgency.

Note to Martin Gero. Watch old SG1 episodes.

Descent
September 8th, 2006, 08:53 PM
Yes, it was like they forgot that completely. Even if the shifting didn't happen right away, they knew it would happen soon. It would have given Rod's return more urgency.

Note to Martin Gero. Watch old SG1 episodes.
Maybe Rod wasn't there long enough for that to occur??

Hatusu
September 8th, 2006, 09:02 PM
This is one of my favorite Atlantis episodes. I enjoyed the interaction between the characters. I also liked seeing Jeannie's reaction to space and Hermiod. LOL. David and Kate Hewlett play very well together (unlike their characters) and I'd like to see Kate on the show again...maybe when Rodney gets some leave. :)

Technically, I was impressed by Rod passing the notebook computer to Rodney and the handshake. Well done.

Note. Is it just me or does anyone else think Martin Gero might be a fan of "Medium"? Jeannie's home life and husband seemed very familiar except that SHE is the scientist.

Terrarin
September 8th, 2006, 09:08 PM
Were you watching the same show? We who already loved Rodney's character are happy to see him grow a little as a person. He's vulnerabilities were exposed and ultimately he was affirmed by both his sister and his team...kind of a 'feel good' thing. :mckay: Please don't presume to speak for all Rodney fans. I happen to be a fan of the character, but that doesn't mean I love everything about him and I certainly don't love the way he tends to be treated by those around him.
Apologies, no presumption intended...poor choice of words. Could've said, "Many of us who loved..." or "I, who already loved,..."

I agree completely that there are things that we don't like about him (feel the same about my brother, actually), but although it's true he faced a good deal of 'humbling,' I felt a little better at the end when he reconciled with his sister and his team did make a point to make him feel welcome.

I'm sorry you didn't like the episode. Since we are fortunate enough to have SGA renewed for another season, we're sure to have a great many more Rodney eps that we will all love. :) :mckay: :) Good night ;)
:cool: :sheppard: :mckay: :teyla: :ronan: :cool:

MXCP
September 8th, 2006, 09:08 PM
Outstanding episode. Bravo for character development all around.

For me personally, this now displaces Common Ground as my fave for the year so far. Hope the year continues like this!!!

Dr. Meredith Rodney McKay, you are in danger of becoming my fave SGA character. :D

Hatusu
September 8th, 2006, 09:15 PM
Random other note: Was it just me or in the scene where Sam, Rodney and Jeannie are on the Daedalus look a little odd? Sam just stared blankly at Rodney until her cue. Actually made me wonder if they filmed the scene together, 'cos I wasn't sure she was even staring at him, just at the space he was (or would be) occupying.
I didn't notice, but I'll look for it on my second viewing. I've spotted them doing that at least three other times.

Sheppard
September 8th, 2006, 09:26 PM
how did they drain the zpm im going to watch the episode tomorrow but i just wanna know what happened to the ZPM

Mitchell82
September 8th, 2006, 09:32 PM
While I can't say Atlantis is better thatn SG-1 (both are equally great IMO) this was a definate 10/10 for me. This ep was great and I love how we burned out the ZPM. Now we are back to sqaure one and I love that. ZPMs are now on our priority list again, still loved having it though. Here's a question, if we have no ZPm how is Jack going to get to Atlantis oops brain fart Deaddy. Great ep loved all three seasons so far and this season is really great and i want to see Jeannie again.

Mitchell82
September 8th, 2006, 09:33 PM
how did they drain the zpm im going to watch the episode tomorrow but i just wanna know what happened to the ZPM
They had to use the ZPMS vacume energy to shoot a very powerfull beam to break the bridge.

Mitchell82
September 8th, 2006, 09:34 PM
Outstanding episode. Bravo for character development all around.

For me personally, this now displaces Common Ground as my fave for the year so far. Hope the year continues like this!!!

Dr. Meredith Rodney McKay, you are in danger of becoming my fave SGA character. :D
Don't know about that but this was an excellent episode.

funks
September 8th, 2006, 09:36 PM
Wouldn't worry too much about not having a zpm, the following ASURAN episodes will most likely give atlantis another zpm - from the spoilers, it states that the asurans were trying to fix atlantis after an attack, i'm pretty sure they'll power her up with a zpm


ZPM depleted problem.

suse
September 8th, 2006, 09:42 PM
Yet again, Atlantis is outclassing SG-1 this season. What a great episode, really touching stuff. I hope McKay's sister makes a comeback sometime in the near future. A great ending scene as well...but where the hell is Carson??

9/10 from me

-1 for NO Carson! Hes in the opening credits, use him!! Also, there was too much technobabble for me really.

They had to pay for Carter somehow... Seriously, he'd have had nothing to do but add one more to the "table of underused characters this week" scenes.

I'm definitely liking Atlantis more this season. And I really liked this ep. The sibling stuff betweem Meredith and Jeanne was priceless. I love that cute Canadian way you both say 'sorry'. :DAs was Sam's response to Rodney's first name. I can see the girls ganging up on him. And he soooo deserves it.

i was expecting something more nefarious with the other reality. I'm glad that didn't pan out. The alternate personalities for the other crew members was a great idea.

I'd give this ep a 8/10. just because there was such little team. Though what there was was good. Showed a comfort level I've not seen much on Atlantis.

Suse

Michelle05
September 8th, 2006, 10:11 PM
Wonderful episode. I loved the subtle evolution of Rodney and Jeannie's relationship until it was really on the mend. I loved "Rod" though I really felt sorry for Rodney. I wish Sheppard would show him some overt kindness instead of seeming so aloof all the time. But maybe that's just how guys are. Anyway it was an amazing character-driven up with big implications.

The seamless way the 2 Rodneys were on screen was just amazing. It must have taken forever to shoot!

Michelle

NotAscended
September 8th, 2006, 10:21 PM
Note. Is it just me or does anyone else think Martin Gero might be a fan of "Medium"? Jeannie's home life and husband seemed very familiar except that SHE is the scientist.

Not just you! The staging of the scene where she is sitting on the edge of the bed and the way her husband spoke to her could have been taken right out of a Medium script.


I thoroughly enjoyed this episode, and I hope we get to see Mrs. Miller return in other episodes. She is played wonderfully by Kate Hewlett and her character serves as an important catalyst for Rodney to grow.

I also enjoyed the fact that although the rest of the team had a backseat in this story, each of them got a few nice moments.

I was especially pleased to see that John had decorated his quarters with so much ... stuff. He's making a home for himself in Atlantis. What was all of that anyway? If anyone has TIVO and can slow down and see what was in his room, I'd love to know. There was definitely a picture of someone on his nightstand and some huge poster I couldn't make out.

Adrius
September 8th, 2006, 10:38 PM
This episode was so frustrating it's unbelievable - that the story disposed of the zpm in such a way........and it started out so good too I'm just so SO disappointed ............:mckay:

stealing zpm's from the asurans better be a major objective now
I was irritated at first as well, however, it got me thinking:

The big mid-season two-parter deals directly with the Asurans. The spoilers seem to imply that they take over Atlantis and kick everyone off, back to Earth (whether by gate or ship is unknown of course, 2 weeks and we will know). This episode was perfect setup and forshadowing for it. We may yet come out of the two parter with a ZPM or two but it's hard to say.

Kliggins
September 8th, 2006, 10:38 PM
I liked this episode.

David and Kate were great and I hope they bring her back.

The depleted ZPM could be an interesting turn of events.

takinspace
September 8th, 2006, 10:44 PM
Whatever they do in ZPM-land I hope it's the last time. Can you imagine if the first three seasons of SG-1 were riddled with "oh no, the dialer doesn't work" and you had multiple cliffhangers having something to do with a busted gateroom? Next! I'm willing to knock them, because we already know they can write better (they've done it before). It's almost like a ZPM is an inverse deus-ex-machina.

memnarch
September 8th, 2006, 10:45 PM
One word: Meredith!!!! I literally fell off the couch when that was revealed! Poor McKay...No wonder he's so...well, you know! This was an excellent episode for McKay and I continue to greatly enjoy his character. His jealousy and inadequacy issues make him one of the realest characters in Stargate history. I particularly liked the scenes with him walking into the commisary and his talk with Sheppard. I also loved his interaction with his sister. You never really know a person until you see them interact with family. Sadly, such a great Rodney (Meredith) episode comes at the price of having other characters neglected. Sheppard got in some good screentime, but once again Ronon and Teyla were snubbed (SERIOUSLY WRITERS! WAKE UP!). Also, no Beckett, who I'm sure would've had some interesting conversations with Jeannie. Although there was a glaring plot hole in the form of no entropic cascade failure, I'm willing to overlook it.

Overall, McKay and Mrs. Miller deserves a 3/4 (***) in my book, simply because it's such a good character episode.

smushybird
September 8th, 2006, 10:47 PM
I didn't notice the Sam-looking-blankly thing, but it seemed that the two Rodneys at certain moments were not looking exactly at each other. They sometimes seemed slightly off. Still, I was impressed by the technicalities of the scenes.

I was less impressed with the junior high school behavior in those scenes with the team making embarrassing comments about Rodney. Sure, it was sweet in the end when they let Rodney know that they preferred him--but that scene shouldn't have been necessary to begin with. I don't have a problem with adults teasing each other sometimes, but...

First off, I don't think it was in character for Jeannie to be telling those private childhood humiliations about Rodney to his co-workers, whom she's only just met. It was inappropriate and hurtful, even if she was upset with him for things he'd said and done. And the team's responses seemed a little juvenile to me, as well.

Ronon in the cafeteria scene came off as especially mean-spirited. I didn't like that. He hasn't struck me as an insensitive bully before. He did here.
(Another thing about Ronon is the dialogue they put into his mouth--it seems weirdly off for his character--too earthlike and modern compared to Teyla's).

I think they could have teased Rodney in a way that was less humiliating. They could have come up with childhood events that were less predictable and more interesting. Maybe he got a C once or something. Horrors. :D Anyway... Teasing him about his name, that was all right. I loved the whole Meredith thing. It's a charming name and I think it suits him.

I did love quite a bit about this episode, despite the complaints above.
Kate Hewlett was fantastic. I liked her, I believed she was Rodney's sister, I believed how strongly she believed in the choices she'd made. She made Jeannie interesting and enjoyable. I liked the bit about pushing the button. I have two sisters and a brother, myself, and I thought it was entirely realistic. :) I also loved how creatively they showed her brilliance without just saying she's brilliant, by having her fingerpainting equations like mad....that was a fun scene and reminded me of the way Rodney works, so focused and shutting everyone out while he's in fast thinking brilliant mode.

I loved the differences between Rod and Rodney. I think Rodney handled the whole thing well, really. If I were face to face with a pleasanter version of myself advising me how to behave better, I don't think I'd take it as well as Rodney did. :D I liked his process of coming to understand some things, and I liked that Sheppard assisted in that (and that Rodney went to Sheppard to talk, instead of going to anyone else. He was in Shep's room! First time? ;) ). Loved the golf scene--half expected the whale to surface so Shep could get his hole in one, a la Seinfeld. :D
And Shep makes far less of a mess cleaning his golf clubs than my husband does. :)

I was wondering how Sheppard knew about Rodney's LfP video? Had Sheppard watched all the videos in that ep? I couldn't recall. It was sweet that he shared it with Jeannie--and the resulting scene between Jeannie and Rodney was one of the best moments I've ever seen on SGA, very real and touching. I think the fact that DH and KH are sibs really added a lot to that particular scene. It made me teary-eyed, too.

I did miss Carson, but when I hear people upset about seeing less of Carson and Liz in episodes, it makes me think of SG-1 and how Janet wasn't in every ep and Hammond was over-seeing...but the focus was on the team, where it belonged. Well, the focus was on the team in SGA tonight and that was just as it should be. I hope the rest of the season pans out as beautifully with team interaction and character development as it has since Sateda.

I, too, am glad the ZPM was depleted. I want to see complications and a bit of struggle and suffering. Keeps things interesting. :D

mike3
September 8th, 2006, 10:53 PM
McKay's first name is "Meredith"?!?! What the frigg?!?! No wonder he likes to be called "Rodney". "Meredith" is usually used for girls! Still it was really, really goofy.

And why did they have to kill the ZPM??? Is that to resume the "ZPM Hunt" storyline from the first season?

Adrius
September 8th, 2006, 11:03 PM
This episode will insult anyone who has been bullied for being a "geek", just as "Irresistible" insulted a lot of the women in the audience. You might add that the continuous references to Sheppard being "Kirk" also insults a chunk of the audience who are tired of Sheppard behaving like a ho instead of a hero. The writers need to step back and analyze their "humor" angle.

I don't recall SG1 having this problem with "insulting humor".You have no idea what a hell my school years were (verbal, mental and physical abuse for 10 years straight), yet I wasn't offended by this. They aren't a bunch of jerks at school, they are his friends, it's different. Me and my friends do at least that bad to one another all the time, but it's all in good fun. It was hard for me to understand at first, but I got over it. Rodney (and you) needs to get over it too.

SocalFan
September 8th, 2006, 11:44 PM
If there weren't conflict, it wouldn't be interesting. We can relate to Rodney as he approached the cool kids table. That's called character, and it makes the show more interesting. Rodney saves their butts over and over and still can't catch a break... only in "Friends" do we all live happily ever after and love each other.

ISpyTy
September 9th, 2006, 12:12 AM
Okay I'm extremely excited/dissapointed with this episode. If I am to understand correctly, they can pick any number of parallel universes to draw power from. Why can they not just pick another universe to draw power from, since the possiblity of picking ANOTHER universe that is inhabited is astronomical. Am I missing something? I was left HATING the writers for not clarifying this point or setting the next episode up for trying again with another universe. At the very least I'm sure they could tweak the equations to change to another universe. I know the equations are complex and whatnot, but surely you could try again, is it a randomly pick a universe or do the equations setup the way they are mean they can only draw from THAT universe. I mean hell, let them fill up 3 ZPM's and then get in some huge battle that depletes their ZPM's all but 1, and in the process somehow the containment chamber overloads and the machine is destroyed, leaving them with 1 75% ZPM or something. Maybe I'm just making this too easy for the show as an "out", but honestly, is this not a possiblity? Frustrated with this, want to know your thoughts.

Scyld
September 9th, 2006, 12:53 AM
You have no idea what a hell my school years were (verbal, mental and physical abuse for 10 years straight), yet I wasn't offended by this. They aren't a bunch of jerks at school, they are his friends, it's different. Me and my friends do at least that bad to one another all the time, but it's all in good fun. It was hard for me to understand at first, but I got over it. Rodney (and you) needs to get over it too.

My high school years (and middle school) were quite thoroughly miserable, but I got over it. What happened to Rodney here didn't even approach the viciousness that children engage in towards each other, though. The important thing to remember here is that though they may give him a hard time, the team really does like Rodney.

AutumnDream
September 9th, 2006, 01:57 AM
That was the first episode in a looooong time that actually felt like an Atlantis episode. Jeannie was AWESOME. I'd love to see her back.

I'm elated at the concept of no ZPM. That might mean less stupid Earth-crossovers, less US Military reinforcements, and more cool isolation and desperation like in Season 1!

I don't know why they didn't just dial the power-generator thing into a different alternative reality, though. Just keep messing with it until you get an uninhabited one?

Glad to see Zelenka again. ^_^
Rod was cool. But right when I saw him, I thought "zomg, cascade failure". Apparently not...

Buzz Lightyear
September 9th, 2006, 02:48 AM
I'm elated at the concept of no ZPM. That might mean less stupid Earth-crossovers, less US Military reinforcements, and more cool isolation and desperation like in Season 1!

Then they should have destroyed the Daedalus and the Odyssey, plus any capability of making more ships, not deplete the ZPM.

Easter Lily
September 9th, 2006, 03:01 AM
Good episode... Reminded me largely of Ace Rimmer from Red Dwarf...
Very well-written and generally well-acted. I like the poignancy of the sibling relationship.
It's great to see the team sit around and have meals together... what's this about Teyla and some new marine ;)

I didn't find the humour here at all demeaning or cringeworthy... at least no more so than on Eureka, where Jack Carter gets a hammering in just about every single episode.

IWKYZerocool
September 9th, 2006, 03:22 AM
Now that Atlantis has no ZPM, how long do you think it will be untl they find another one?

Read at own risk

If you have read the spoiler for the Return part 2, it states After an attack by the team leaves the control room in shambles, the Replicators work to get the systems back online. Most likely the Asurans will supply atlantis with a ZPM maybe 3 but we will have to wait until the 2nd half of Atlantis to find out.

shockwave
September 9th, 2006, 04:27 AM
good episode
some nice fun with mckay and his sister
hope we see her again

the meredith stuff was funny
Meredith Rodney McKay :mckay:

sueKay
September 9th, 2006, 04:37 AM
Lovely episode!

The plot did drag at times, but the characterisation was superb!

Hope we see more of Jeannie!

Meredith! LOL!!!!

I knew a woman called Nicholas once though, so it could be worse I guess!

The teasing made me sympathise with Rodney a lot, but I didn't think the comments were out of line

doylefan22
September 9th, 2006, 04:51 AM
To be blunt and petulant here before I put this behind me... this episode sucked, sucked, sucked. Much of its humor was cringe-worthy and the opposite of clever, the writers treated their own creations with utter contempt, and I wish I could erase the experience of watching this from my mind.


This episode will insult anyone who has been bullied for being a "geek", just as "Irresistible" insulted a lot of the women in the audience. You might add that the continuous references to Sheppard being "Kirk" also insults a chunk of the audience who are tired of Sheppard behaving like a ho instead of a hero. The writers need to step back and analyze their "humor" angle.

I don't recall SG1 having this problem with "insulting humor".

I don't agree with these at all. This episode brilliantly showed Rodney's insecurities and vulnerabilities from his POV for once. The humour was humiliating but some people can quite easily brush that kind of thing off and laugh with it - Rodney's paranoia doesn't let him do so though. The team like him a great deal and consider him a friend and they see it as just some ribbing. They don't mean it malciously but he can't help but take it as a slight against him. The show wasn't laughing at Rodney, they were showing how much to heart and hurtful these seemingly innocent laughs can be. The end contrasts this well - Rodney realises that his paranoia isn't really justified and joins in with the team.

Anyone who found this insulting is overly sensitive/takes life too seriously and didn't read the episode properly. I love Rodney and his character and I thought this episode did a wonderful job of humanising him a little more and of letting us see things from his POV. I felt equal parts sympathy for him and despair at him bringing a lot of it upon himself. It was interesting to see him realise for once that he is not entirely blameless for the way other people treat him and to take responsibility for his actions.

axg
September 9th, 2006, 04:52 AM
Okay, another nice episode.. really love Kate Hewlett, make her a regular (just kidding.. but it was an nice touch that David's sister got to play the part of Merediths sister.. oh the name.. that poor guy. )

Only thing that kinda bothered me was how they presented "Rod" .. it was kinda Ace Rimmer all over, leatherjacket and all.. (Ace Rimmer is an AU-Character from the British Comedy "Red Dwarf, if you don't know. Look it up, won't bite ya! ;)

Ah well, at least he did not do "The Fonz!" ;)

But all in all, this was MUCH more enjoyable than the preceding SG1 Episode.
(Anyone bothered by the Fact that seven guys got killed while rescuing vala and no-one cares?)

but since that rant is offtopic I would give this episode a solid laughter and a good chance for a rewatch soon ;)

Loved Zelenka.. more of him please.
And.. they had the German Flag Patch right this time, hooray! (after my rant on last episode..)
Oh, and the drained ZPM.. well, nice plot device. lets see what they make of it.

ShadowMaat
September 9th, 2006, 05:17 AM
They aren't a bunch of jerks at school, they are his friends, it's different.
Exactly. They're his friends. You expect that sort of crap from the bullying jerks who harrass you, but when it's coming from your friends it's even worse. I know Rodney's an easy target for mockery, but whatever happened to sticking up for your friends? Why do they have to tell stories that ONLY humiliate him? He's accomplished a lot of good, too.

Like I said, I know why they did it and I think one scene of the derisiveness would have been fine, but the card was overplayed, IMO, and it went from being funny to being mean.

Southern Red
September 9th, 2006, 05:36 AM
Lovely character episode. The team bonding through shared laughter was refreshing to see. I can kinda see the complaints about the mean comments toward Rodney but choose to look at them in the light of reality. I have seen many such scenarios with my own son and his friends, my husband and his buddies, heck even certain of my girlfriends and I. Remember in the end they chose their Rodney over Rod, and he wanted to get back to his own imperfect reality. I think it shows he is truly accepted as an equal by the team. And that Teyla and Ronon are becoming more like the Earth people. Teyla likes Marines. Priceless. And what a show of brotherly teasing by John.

Kate Hewlett is not only beautiful but a great actress. Too bad she can't stay.

At last a look at off hours activities. Loved the golf. And since I'm a fangirl who knows that JF goes golfing with guest stars, I love it even more. Also his swing was...ah...interesting. Also since someone asked, the poster in John's room is Johnny Cash, an idol of both JS and JF. And the picture which we also saw in Conversion is JF as a child with Evil Kneivel.

I also like the depleted ZPM idea. Now let's cut them off from Earth and get back to the exciting stuff of S1.

Sparky13
September 9th, 2006, 05:48 AM
May I remind you that unless we resorted to stealing ZPMs, Earth's basically screwed if the Wraith determine that indeed Atlantis hasn't been destroyed.

Reminder!!! Dramatic tension!!! It's just too good!

doylefan22
September 9th, 2006, 05:52 AM
Exactly. They're his friends. You expect that sort of crap from the bullying jerks who harrass you, but when it's coming from your friends it's even worse.

But that's what friends do to. When you're good friends with people and you're comfortable with them you do have a laugh at each other's expense, giggle at their embarrassing moments and generally rib each other. But you laugh it off - you know they still like you. Rodney, unfortunately, still seems wary of them. His friendship with the rest of the team isn't all that comfortable to him yet and he tends to think the worst of people. He also has a tendancy to belittle and humiliate people himself and does so in a far less jovial manner.

What they were doing wasn't malicious and nor did it come across that way. What it did show though is Rodney's reaction to these things, why he feels like that and how he needs to grow to understand that the teasing doesn't mean they don't like him. The end did seem to show that somewhat.

Sparky13
September 9th, 2006, 05:56 AM
Outstanding episode. Bravo for character development all around.

For me personally, this now displaces Common Ground as my fave for the year so far. Hope the year continues like this!!!

Dr. Meredith Rodney McKay, you are in danger of becoming my fave SGA character. :D

What does it say on hs diplomas? Can't find the caps, right now, but I'd be inteested to see if they have his entire name inscribed on them.

And...you mean Meredith isn't your favorite character already? :)

ShadowMaat
September 9th, 2006, 05:56 AM
I wish I could believe they'd use the depleted ZPM plot point for good instead of evil. ;) Unfortunately I can see it being used as a tedious excuse for all kinds of ridiculousness. Either that or we'll get a spiffy new ZPM in the next ep and any possibility of "dramatic tension" will be eliminated. *sigh*

As for the whole "Atlantis gets cut off from Eath again" idea... it's a very pretty pipe dream, but I have a feeling that's all it is- especially considering that there's a good chance of SG-1 characters popping up with regularity on Atlantis next season.

IMO, Atlantis will NEVER be allowed to be its "own show."

d10sfan
September 9th, 2006, 05:59 AM
They can run the drones with the mark 2 naquadah generators so that should probably be fine. Maybe they can figure out how to run the cloak using the generators until they find another zpm. And, with the intergalatic bridge they shouldnt have to be cut off from earth

ShadowMaat
September 9th, 2006, 06:00 AM
But that's what friends do to. When you're good friends with people and you're comfortable with them you do have a laugh at each other's expense, giggle at their embarrassing moments and generally rib each other.
I've been there, I've done that. And while there might be some "ribbing" going on, its usually when the object of ridicule is present- not behind his/her back. And there's usually a bit of defence mixed in as well. Knock down and build up. It's part of what makes the teasing acceptable.

Steve_the_Wraith
September 9th, 2006, 06:03 AM
Over on the TWoP boards, someone noted that Meredith is Old Welsh for "protector of the sea". Internet searching also revealed that it could mean "great ruler" or "sea lord". Awesome. :mckayanime03:

ETA: And "Rodney" could mean "Land Near the Water", "Famous One's Island", or "Hroda's island", where Hroda is German for fame. If you trust these internet sites, that is... (Not like that's intentional, since he got his name long before TPTB were working on the Atlantis show.)
I'm pretty sure Rodney only got his first name in Atlantis - before then he was just McKay

siXbrownSnakes2
September 9th, 2006, 06:55 AM
Perhaps they DON'T find a new ZPM and it leads to the plot for "Submergence". I sort of hope that it is :o

bumontheroad
September 9th, 2006, 06:56 AM
There wasn't that much technobabble...I've only gotten through high school chemistry and I understood most of what they said...

KindlyKeller
September 9th, 2006, 06:58 AM
I don't agree with these at all. This episode brilliantly showed Rodney's insecurities and vulnerabilities from his POV for once. The humour was humiliating but some people can quite easily brush that kind of thing off and laugh with it - Rodney's paranoia doesn't let him do so though. The team like him a great deal and consider him a friend and they see it as just some ribbing. They don't mean it malciously but he can't help but take it as a slight against him. The show wasn't laughing at Rodney, they were showing how much to heart and hurtful these seemingly innocent laughs can be. The end contrasts this well - Rodney realises that his paranoia isn't really justified and joins in with the team.

Anyone who found this insulting is overly sensitive/takes life too seriously and didn't read the episode properly. I love Rodney and his character and I thought this episode did a wonderful job of humanising him a little more and of letting us see things from his POV. I felt equal parts sympathy for him and despair at him bringing a lot of it upon himself. It was interesting to see him realise for once that he is not entirely blameless for the way other people treat him and to take responsibility for his actions.

You're missing my point a little bit. I was just as upset at how immature and poorly written the humor was as I was about Rodney's treatment. This is the kind of thing that could have appeared in Agent Cody Banks or what have you. And beyond that, I assure you I take life as seriously as Sci-Fi takes Stargate (which is to say, generally not at all), but mean is mean and they were cruel to Rodney. They had to know how uncomfortable things were already and they made it a million times worse. The fact that that's my opinion doesn't somehow mean I missed what the episode was going for. I just don't think it earned the right to end up where it ended up.

I won't make any overreaching generalizations about people who disagree with me on this points.

Oreo
September 9th, 2006, 07:05 AM
The entropic cascade failure doesn't begin for several days.


But they were planning on him staying forever when they thought he couldn't go back. They didn't even mension anything about it.

And the ZPM thing was lame, but everything dealing with the ZPM on Atlantis is badly done and overall very lame.

Pocus
September 9th, 2006, 07:14 AM
I was especially pleased to see that John had decorated his quarters with so much ... stuff. He's making a home for himself in Atlantis. What was all of that anyway? If anyone has TIVO and can slow down and see what was in his room, I'd love to know. There was definitely a picture of someone on his nightstand and some huge poster I couldn't make out.

Southern Red already answered the question about the pic, a young JF with Evil Knievel but here is a close up of the pic from Conversion


http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l228/abracahpocus/Atlantis/minijoepic.jpg

I really did enjoy seeing the downtime the team has. Can't wait for the "Sunday" episode!

siXbrownSnakes2
September 9th, 2006, 07:15 AM
But they were planning on him staying forever when they thought he couldn't go back. They didn't even mension anything about it.

And the ZPM thing was lame, but everything dealing with the ZPM on Atlantis is badly done and overall very lame.

I think the general idea of depleting the ZPM was a good one, but the excecution was poor. Our ZPM went from well above 50% capacity to 0 within seconds.

I don't know why people are so upset that Atlantis doesn't have a ZPM anymore. There were no good "ZPM-Centric" episodes and we haven't even used the thing since... a long time ago? This new variation offers more drama and the S1 stories that had to deal with Atlantis being defenseless were the best episodes of that season.

I still wish that they were stranded from Earth entirely, but this will have to do.

Wilson3Girl
September 9th, 2006, 07:16 AM
First off, I don't think it was in character for Jeannie to be telling those private childhood humiliations about Rodney to his co-workers, whom she's only just met. It was inappropriate and hurtful, even if she was upset with him for things he'd said and done.

Yeah, I thought that was pretty petty and unkind of her to do too. You mess with each other around family, but you don't spill secrets to co-workers-people that were strangers to her...When Rodney confronted her about it she said something like, 'You really have no idea do you?!', so we got to see that she was very angry with him about their separation but still......:S I was so glad to see Shep helping with Rodney and Jeannie's reconcilliation. I loved the scene in Shep's room when Rodney was pacing back and forth, spilling his guts and John sat there cleaning his golf clubs and lending an ear, remaining calm in the face of Rodney's anxiety and misery....acting aloof, but then going behind Rodney's back and showing Jeannie the video so that she could see that Rodney does care about her and has thought about her over the years........very much in keeping with the Sheppard-McKay relationship and the way they deal with each other imho.

ETA: I loved seeing so much Zelenka! "He likes to push the button." HA!

Wilson3Girl

Atlanis
September 9th, 2006, 07:18 AM
Story:

Orignaly i thought that the story was about somesort of a dimension jumping McKay but I didn't expect such a charicter driven plot, though i have to say loosing the ZPM is not going to be good for anyone but the wrath, but I asume that the Asurians will give us 3 zpms if we ally with them at the end of "The Return" part two so it wouldn't be such a big loss but it does set the clock back to Season one but over all this EP is in my top five for this season, with No mans land, Progney, The real world and Setada
"Rod" could have told us were in his unavirse they found the ZPM that powers their earth gate

Character use

Since this was a character driven show I'm not suprised that David Hewlett and his sister had the predomance of the screen time but we seen doctor Weir in one or two senes will I though was an underuse of the charicter and yes I liked "Rod" McKay

Dialogue
Sharp as always that's realy the only thing i have to say on the subject


Writing

VERY intresting story; I'd say this is one of Martin Gero's top scripts, theres a great amount of drama and theres a lot of hart in this script

Acting

I've looked at Kate Hewllet's bio on IMDB there arn't many credits to her name but her acting is as upto scrath as her brothers, I havn't seen much of the acting for the guy that played Jennie's husband but it was Avarage with a capatal A

Directing

Solid as always I love the pose that was used as "Rod" showed up in and the white suits that Zelinka were in kinda reminding me of the wee guys we seen in the origanl Charlie and the Chocolate factory

Music / score

Joel Goldsmith and his boys as always did a temendous job

Visual effects

They get better and better after each epasoide i loved the Deadalus window shot and the containment chamber

Overall production value

Rodney seems to be loosing his aragonace bug even more since, Trinaty and even more so in this epasoide

Contribution to story arcs / overall series
Well, loosing the ZPM is a big thing and what hope does atlantis have in defending them slefs against the wrath

Thank you,

C. Edmund

SGalisa
September 9th, 2006, 07:41 AM
Wow! Not just a nice glimpse David's real life sister (Kate), but 2 Rodney's as well...! more doubles.. It was interesting how calm and (stablized) different alternate Rod was to Rodney.. "not condescending" (as noted by Sheppard).


I was so glad to see Shep helping with Rodney and Jeannie's reconcilliation. I loved the scene in Shep's room when Rodney was pacing back and forth, spilling his guts and John sat there cleaning his golf clubs and lending an ear, remaining calm in the face of Rodney's anxiety and misery....acting aloof, but then going behind Rodney's back and showing Jeannie the video so that she could see that Rodney does care about her and has thought about her over the years........very much in keeping with the Sheppard-McKay relationship and the way they deal with each other imho.
I was hoping there'd be some kind of connection to "Letters from Pegasus". Apparently, either that part of the tape transmission never made it to earth, or else was never shown to Jeannie in the first place. Something McKay really hoped would somehow reach his sister above all else (it seemed to imply that was his soul's desire, anyway).

I loved the beginning of the ep, when Jeannie picked up the idea of making the quantum whatever bridge, and started going on a painting spree... Then her hubby comes home and Madison is just staring into the room where her mommy is lost in thought with her equations... that was great! :)

Also enjoyed Jeannie's awe-struck stares at the viewing window of hyperspace and Hermiod... Guess she got a huge dose of everything all at once to equalize the other portions of that mega genius mind. :D

Adrius
September 9th, 2006, 07:45 AM
My high school years (and middle school) were quite thoroughly miserable, but I got over it. What happened to Rodney here didn't even approach the viciousness that children engage in towards each other, though. The important thing to remember here is that though they may give him a hard time, the team really does like Rodney.
Exactly my point. Sheppard counsels Rodney in this ep and then goes out of his way behind his back to make sure his sister knows how much he cares. He understands that Rodney is emotionally shut off. Heck, Sheppard, by his own admission, thinks of Rodney as family (Sateda).. and in his "Letter from Pegasus" showed again in this ep, Rodney admits the same!

Guys are like that though, we don't get touchy feely usually, not in the way that some people might think. Us making fun of one another and poking at one another is really just our way of saying we really care (at least that's how it works amongst my friends) cause we aren't just gonna come out and say "I love you man!" When someone is your friend, and you make fun of them, you sort of expect it in return, it's a sign of trust, that you say these things in a friendly manner, that you trust others not to take it seriously and trust others not to be serious when they return the insults :p

The Signal
September 9th, 2006, 07:53 AM
To TPTB:

THANK YOU! For getting rid of the ZPM!!! :D

Finally there is the opportunity to get back to the pretty much stranded feel of S1, which I have missed greatly.

Rodney being left out was harsh, but also realistic and well written, coupled with the end, where the rest of the team say they didnt like Rod (which seemed to be a lie to make Roney feel better) it adds a great deal of realism to the team.

Kate Hewlitt is brilliant, all I can say is bring her back at some point over the next 2 years or so, she plays off of her brother so well, as does her character.

Overall, I'd say that this episode, coupled with one or two others this season, is more than promising, in fact I'd even say shows that Atlantis is on the way to becoming SG1's superior, which i'd love.

9/10 - Only loosing a point for the Meredith stuff, it was funny at first, but after that it got a little OTT. (Carter was also out of caracter, but I find that having characters acting slightly different depending on the show they are on helps to set them apart as we are seeing them from another point of view. )

LaCroix
September 9th, 2006, 08:17 AM
Can I say how much I enjoyed this episode.

First. I loved the fact that David's sister Kate played his on screen sister. There where times that I say both actors drawing on their experinces as brother and sister to fuel their characters sibiling rivaling.

Second. I too thought it funny about Rodney's first name, until I saw the poster of Johnny Cash. All the meta and symbolism was right there in that poster. I'm not sure how posters here know that Johnny Cash sang a song called A Boy Named Sue in my day. Lets just say it brought the name Meredith Rodney McKay into a whole new meaning.

Third. I think what Jeannie was trying to do with "telling tales out of school"
about her brother is her way of taking down Rodney a peg or two. I know that the worst people to introduce co-workers to is a brother/sister. They know all your secrets, what you did when you where young. I think she was also trying to make him more of a part of the team, teaching him a little humility, therefore human.

Fourth. I thought that when Rod was going home, normally Rodney would be the most cautious, not taking any chances of losing the ZPM. I saw Rodney start the beginnings of being more Rod like willing to take risks. I also saw Rodney start to become more social, in the end when he sat down with the team.


ETA: I finally realized why Rodney was uncomfortable when Madison hugged him. It reminded him that he's very much still a little boy, trying to get everyone's attention/approval. Hopefully with this in mind
maybe later episodes we'll see more Rodney fully becoming Rod.


As Always JMHO. YMMV.

M.G.S
September 9th, 2006, 08:38 AM
To TPTB:

THANK YOU! For getting rid of the ZPM!!! :D

Finally there is the opportunity to get back to the pretty much stranded feel of S1, which I have missed greatly.

Rodney being left out was harsh, but also realistic and well written, coupled with the end, where the rest of the team say they didnt like Rod (which seemed to be a lie to make Roney feel better) it adds a great deal of realism to the team.



I have to agree with the sentiment of being glad that the ZPM is gone. The idea of them being stranded would make all their future consequences have more meaning. Kind of like in the first season.

I did feel sorry for Rodney in this episode but I think it worked great. The siblings did an awesome job. The last moment where they hug was what really sold the episode for me. 10/10 for me.

Seastallion
September 9th, 2006, 08:40 AM
Exactly. They're his friends. You expect that sort of crap from the bullying jerks who harrass you, but when it's coming from your friends it's even worse. I know Rodney's an easy target for mockery, but whatever happened to sticking up for your friends? Why do they have to tell stories that ONLY humiliate him? He's accomplished a lot of good, too.

Like I said, I know why they did it and I think one scene of the derisiveness would have been fine, but the card was overplayed, IMO, and it went from being funny to being mean.


I understand what your saying, and if it was as though his friends had NEVER come through for him personally on more than one occaison, I might agree. However, seeing as they have (multiple times) come through for him despite his flaws, he KNOWS they care for him, and vice-versa. His ego is big enough without stoking it, so his friends hound him in an attempt to take the edge off of him. I think deep down he knows this, so he knows that his team is only screwing with his head, not his heart. He knows that when the chips are down they will come through for him. Even Ronan.

NotAscended
September 9th, 2006, 08:56 AM
Thanks, Pocus, for pointing out the picture I had missed.


Second. I too thought it funny about Rodney's first name, until I saw the poster of Johnny Cash. All the meta and symbolism was right there in that poster. I'm not sure how posters here know that Johnny Cash sang a song called A Boy Named Sue in my day. Lets just say it brought the name Meredith Rodney McKay into a whole new meaning.

Third. I think what Jeannie was trying to do with "telling tales out of school"
about her brother is her way of taking down Rodney a peg or two. I know that the worst people to introduce co-workers to is a brother/sister. They know all your secrets, what you did when you where young. I think she was also trying to make him more of a part of the team, teaching him a little humility, therefore human.

Fourth. I thought that when Rod was going home, normally Rodney would be the most cautious, not taking any chances of losing the ZPM. I saw Rodney
become Rod more willing to take risks. I also saw Rod start to become more social, in the end when he sat down with the team.




Nice Johnny Cash connection!

I agree that Jeannie was trying to knock Rodney down a peg or two, and it was an expression on her part of some of her anger with him for his attitudes about her choices and his arrogance towards her in the past. Still kind of mean, but understandable.

As for the team teasing him, I've always seen that as both friendly and their own way of helping him grow. Rodney has been shown to fairly consistently belittle Zelenka and others and makes no pretense that he thinks he is the smartest person in two galaxies. His behavior seems to come out of discomfort with himself and his own fears. As his friends, I think the rest of the team knows that and their teasing is their way to make him expand his comfort zone. While some of that humor was juvenile, its the kind of things guys really do say to each other and in the context of this episode created a stronger counterpoint to the AU Rod who has a great relationship with his sister and is the "cool" one in Atlantis.

The end scenes, for me, were recognition on Rodney's part that he has gotten past some of his personal issues. He still can't say what he really feels to his sister, but can finally give her a hug and wants to rebuild that relationship. When he sits down and joins in the laughter at John teasing Teyla, it symbolic of the fact that he can now feel comfortable with them as his friends.

This episode is also a nice bookend to S2's Trinity (the last time they tried to create zero point energy), which ended with Rodney apologizing to his team members for his arrogance and hoping to win back their trust (and implicitly, their affection).

SciFiGeek
September 9th, 2006, 08:57 AM
But that's what friends do to. When you're good friends with people and you're comfortable with them you do have a laugh at each other's expense, giggle at their embarrassing moments and generally rib each other. But you laugh it off - you know they still like you. Rodney, unfortunately, still seems wary of them. His friendship with the rest of the team isn't all that comfortable to him yet and he tends to think the worst of people. He also has a tendancy to belittle and humiliate people himself and does so in a far less jovial manner.


I would argue that it's because they're not exactly his friends. Actions speak louder than words; I don't care if Sheppard said back in Sateda that he considers even McKay family--this was the first time I've gotten any impression from any of the team since first season season that they actually do like and care about McKay. (With the possible exception of Grace Under Pressure.) Every episode in between has been hitting the same note of circular behavior--McKay acts arrogant and cocky, partly as a result of his own insecurities and paranoia, and the others, seeing only the arrogance, antagonize and belittle him, he thinks less of himself and acts even more cocky to make up for his insecurities. Though I have a sickening notion that the writers don't see it as that complex--they just see it as funny to have McKay act arrogant and the others make fun of him for it. A big AMEN to whomever it was that said that it's more about laughing at him rather than with him.

And unfortunately, that's something to could be applied to just about every McKay episode in the series, especially post-season one. What I want to know is, why is it so difficult to have a serious McKay episode? Why is it that every episode how him has to be "funny"? (Bear in mind that I do not share the juvenile humor of the writers when it comes to SG:A.) Why don't we have an episode where Ronan has to share his body with someone else and walks around apparently talking to himself (heck, might develop him into some sort of character more than the bully of a jerk who does little more than sneer at other people while waving his gun in their face) and we have a serious episode that puts McKay in a more dire situation akin to Sateda. (Again, there is Grace Under Pressure, but to an extent, that episode was still funny in it's own respect--though, IMO, considerably more hitting the mark than the cruetly and cringeworthiness of this episode and Duet.)

Couple of main reasons I was frustrated by this episode: I think this episode would've been great in first season. But coming in third season...it just hit home to me how little character development there is on this show, and in general how poor it's been, all around. I mean, after two and a half years on Atlantis, McKay is still the McKay of 48 hours, and still awkward with the team--despite everything that's happened. I think the episode would've been a lot better had it, rather, been his sister coming to Atlantis and seeing how much had already changed in the last four years--rather than the "change" coming about as a result of her coming. Especially since this is hardly the first time there's been revelation on the part of McKay that hints at future change in the character...which was immediately forgotten in the next episode. (Defiant One, Trinity, Grace Under Pressure.)

I also think I was more irritated with Sheppard with his participating in the juvenile back-biting, mean-spiritedness of laughing at McKay behind his back; I expect that behavior from Ronon, and I've long since given up hope that Teyla's diplomatic skills and ability to sympathize with even wraith-turned-humans could not extend to McKay. But there's been such great indication in the past that there was shared commonality between McKay and Sheppard, even though it was never actually acknowledged (which was what was sort of great about it). I love the moment in Before I Sleep when they're sitting in the exact same position going over rooms in Atlantis...or the Defiant One with Weir's comment about "how could either of you resist a crashed Wraith ship"...or the only moment in Irresistible I liked, their short discussion of who had played Catwoman in the original Batman. Great little, hey, we actually are kind of similar moments. Which has been what made their interaction so great in the past. So in this episode, I found myself disliking the golfing scene when he was talking bad about McKay to "Rod." Can Sheppard really not see that McKay has changed?? It shows severe lack of character development on the part of McKay--that he is still the same cocky jerk from 48 Hours. But unfortunately, Sheppard hasn't really developed much over the last 2 and a half seasons, either.

I also felt a little too much like everything in McKay's life that has gone wrong must be his fault--especially in regards to his sister. When I first read that MG was doing an episode about his sister, I was intrigued--but I was very disappointed when spoilers leaked the reason why they haven't talked in four years. I've long felt that Stargate, and especially Atlantis, have a tendency, when it comes to hard, serious character development, like to take the wimp's way out and go for the stereotype, rather than going down the dark, dramatic path that would flesh their characters out into three dimensions.

I think the writers don't really know how to do character development well on this show, and every now and then they throw us a bone like this, even though in the long run, it's going to have absolutely no consequences and no changes for an aspect of the show or characters in the future. So I predict, we'll probably have yet another McKay episode, either later in the season or during 4th, when he comes to a "realization" what a horrible person he's been to people and how he needs to change that...and the cycle will continue.

You know, it's not really out of the realm of possibility for a genre television show to successfully combine the metaphysical aspects with legitimate character development; BSG, ST;DS9, heck even SG1 to an extent, have all demonstrated that. Though this far into the series, I no longer have that much hope for Atlantis.

Major Gambit
September 9th, 2006, 09:02 AM
Great episode, very funny.


Also, no ZPM?!?!?1 NOOOOooooo.


Do you think they finished that stargate bridge to earth yet?

siXbrownSnakes2
September 9th, 2006, 09:14 AM
They say it's almost done, but

they go back to earth in "The Return" so it's probably finished by then.

And did I mention how great next weeks ep looks?

kymeric
September 9th, 2006, 09:18 AM
Good episode. Lol @ being named meridith.

We learned in the first epsiode of the season that 2 markII's can power the chair/drones, and we still have a full complement of drones from the tower. So its not THAT bad of news. Just no sheild or cloak. If 2 mk2s can power the chair that means shield =30 mk2's, lol. Dont worry, sooner or later they will have come up with an equivilant power source to the ZPM. The Mk2 is allready a short term zpm solution.

Meredith.

kris
September 9th, 2006, 09:26 AM
Nice little episode. Not quite what I expected. Expected it to be funnier or more dramatic. Glad they didn't go overboard in the sentimental department, however. Liked the ending, McKay's conflict with his sis (she's marvelous by the way; I hope she comes back in another episode). But I found the jokes predictable. School jokes, kirking. The Meredith thing was all right. It helped.

I found the entrance of AU "Rod" McKay to be a bit off and was surprised to see him introduced halfway through the episode. It seems the suspense of having another McKay pop in died off when they jumped to the holding room scene and Zelenka wasn't present. I felt he needed to be present, being upset, keep the tension going. But hey, I guess in the Stargate universe that kind of thing happens all the time (I should know, I've been watching this universe since its Showtime days). Hewlett did fab job acting, wonderful nuance. Rod was different, yet it's the same guy.

Anyone think "very tall oompa-loompas" in that sterile room, white-suit scene with the techs? I had to go there. :)

Good entertainment. :mckay: As always! Kris

RoryJ
September 9th, 2006, 10:05 AM
I mean, after two and a half years on Atlantis, McKay is still the McKay of 48 hours, and still awkward with the team--despite everything that's happened.

I don't think Rodney will ever stop being awkward around the team, because Rodney will always be awkward around people. It's who he is; he's not comfortable in social situations. Things were obviously bad with his parents, and they've never been quite right since. I'd consider a scene where Rodney is just lounging around with the team cracking jokes casually to be out of character. They're still his family, but Rodney still has trouble connecting to people, whether they mean a great deal to him or not.

That said, I adored this episode to bits. Kate was just utterly fantastic, and her performance along with David's just sold this episode a hundred times over. It was nice to see a home base episode with lots of science but also lots of character. I actually disliked Rod - I love my awkward and emotionally inept Rodney much better.

Everyone had a great part, even if it was tiny. (Although, where was Carson? There was room for him in this ep, and TPTB wasted him completely. Shame.) I like how John seemed to get along with Rod much more at first, but he eventually realized that he'd gotten used to his Rodney. And Ronon's reason for not liking Rod was just too funny.

Seeing Zelenka back in a larger context was great. Now all I want is my Lorne back (has it been seven episodes? *cries*). I also greatly appreciated Sam's presence. She really does have a grasp on who Rodney is and can work with his grain. Her teasing of them on the Daedalus was so cute. :)

In addition, the musical score to this episode was beautiful, especially at the beginning. I want my Atlantis soundtrack, NOW. The first one was beautiful, but it was for the first episode. SGA just has a great score to it that has been wonderfully developed these past few years (the same with SG-1; they need an updated soundtrack too).

A couple of nitpicks? Where was the mention of the piano? I want my piano! Also, I would have thought that Jeannie would have been more affected by seeing Rodney's message to her. He said all the things that she'd been trying to get him to say the whole episode, but it didn't seem to have much of an effect on her at the time, though. Although John was an absolute sweetheart for showing it to her. Little things like that show how much John cares (in a non-slash way, okay?). But that did bring up a question - why didn't Jeannie get the message a year and a half ago? Shouldn't Rodney's message have been delivered along with everyone else's? I didn't get that part. And one last nitpick - I love that they doused the ZPM (even though in the whole year they had it I was vainly hoping that they would explore farther reaches of the city), but did no one care? Um ... you're all screwed when the Wraith or the Asurans come ... does that not concern you? Okay.

Nonetheless, my nitpicks are small. This was one of my absolute favorite episodes of the series. I read (possibly on GW) that MG is already thinking of ways to bring Kate back in season 4, so I absolutely can't wait for that. This was just a great outing for the series.

Elinor
September 9th, 2006, 10:13 AM
Nice episode...bit slow in parts and a bit too much techno-babble for me...but I loved the team moments and the little talks between Shep and McKay. Atlantis writers are really producing excellent stuff in that department this season. The golfing was a nice touch to!

Didn't bother me the laughter at Rodney's expense. My friends and I do this sort of thing with each other all the time..and we love each other to bits!! We just do it 'cos we're all so comfortable with each other...and it seems the Atlantis team are all feeling this way now to!

http://www.clicksmilies.com/s0105/aktion/action-smiley-020.gif

doylefan22
September 9th, 2006, 10:19 AM
I would argue that it's because they're not exactly his friends. Actions speak louder than words; I don't care if Sheppard said back in Sateda that he considers even McKay family--this was the first time I've gotten any impression from any of the team since first season season that they actually do like and care about McKay. (With the possible exception of Grace Under Pressure.) Every episode in between has been hitting the same note of circular behavior--McKay acts arrogant and cocky, partly as a result of his own insecurities and paranoia, and the others, seeing only the arrogance, antagonize and belittle him, he thinks less of himself and acts even more cocky to make up for his insecurities.

I love and adore Rodney but, let's face it, he's an arrogant, rude, antagonistic, smug little sod. Or at least that's what he chooses to be. Now we are aware from his back story that there are reasons he is this way but still he doesn't make himself easy to get on with nor does he go out of his way to make people like him. And that's one of the things I like about his character. I don't ever see him thinking less of himself because of the others ribbing him - it just irritates the heck out of him that they don't worship the ground he walks on! He does need that knocking down a peg or two because otherwise his ego would get out of control.

And you're right, actions do speak louder than words. Considering how many times the team has helped saved his life and looked out for him whilst on missions, I think it's pretty clear how much they care for him. He just doesn't make it very easy.



And unfortunately, that's something to could be applied to just about every McKay episode in the series, especially post-season one. What I want to know is, why is it so difficult to have a serious McKay episode? Why is it that every episode how him has to be "funny"?

Funny? Was 'Trinity' funny? How about 'Grace Under Pressure'? They were both very serious and rather dark in their own way. DH has a wonderful ability to do comedy and McKay's unnecessarily dramatic complaints are amusing - he can be light relief but his feature episodes (with the exception of 'Duet') tend to look at the more serious side of him.


Why don't we have an episode where Ronan has to share his body with someone else and walks around apparently talking to himself (heck, might develop him into some sort of character more than the bully of a jerk who does little more than sneer at other people while waving his gun in their face)

I think 'Sateda' and 'Progeny' did a good job of that. We got a good look at the good man he used to be and his 'Where we come from, we look out for our friends' line in Progeny was quite revealing as to how his state of mind had changed.


and we have a serious episode that puts McKay in a more dire situation akin to Sateda. (Again, there is Grace Under Pressure, but to an extent, that episode was still funny in it's own respect--though, IMO, considerably more hitting the mark than the cruetly and cringeworthiness of this episode and Duet.)

I certainly did not find GUP funny in the slightest. He was panicking, terrified and falling apart. It was wonderfully tense and good insight into Rodney at the utter limits of his mental tolerance, but not 'funny'.

This episode wasn't cruel or cringeworthy, it was realistic. It's not always easy to watch because we like it when things are a buddy-buddy between our team and everyone's being nice to one another. But that's not reality. And certainly not when you've got someone like Rodney around.


I mean, after two and a half years on Atlantis, McKay is still the McKay of 48 hours, and still awkward with the team--despite everything that's happened.

Having watched 48 Hours recently, Rodney is definitely a different man - but he's still Rodney. He's snarky, prickly and doesn't get on all that well with people. And he'll probably always be like that. But his actions in the last 3 years have shown how much he's changed.


I also think I was more irritated with Sheppard with his participating in the juvenile back-biting, mean-spiritedness of laughing at McKay behind his back; I expect that behavior from Ronon, and I've long since given up hope that Teyla's diplomatic skills and ability to sympathize with even wraith-turned-humans could not extend to McKay.

Forgetting how she backed Rodney up last episode when Carson was wondering what he was doing rallying the troops? In fact she's often more tolerant of him than others.


But there's been such great indication in the past that there was shared commonality between McKay and Sheppard, even though it was never actually acknowledged (which was what was sort of great about it). I love the moment in Before I Sleep when they're sitting in the exact same position going over rooms in Atlantis...or the Defiant One with Weir's comment about "how could either of you resist a crashed Wraith ship"...or the only moment in Irresistible I liked, their short discussion of who had played Catwoman in the original Batman. Great little, hey, we actually are kind of similar moments. Which has been what made their interaction so great in the past. So in this episode, I found myself disliking the golfing scene when he was talking bad about McKay to "Rod." Can Sheppard really not see that McKay has changed??

They have an antagonistic friendship. You don't always have to like someone to 'love' them and this is a good example. They irritate and pick at each other, they have their geeky moments of shared delight, they're combative and competative. But when the chips are down they'd do anything to save the other.

Earlier on you were adament that McKay hadn't changed since 48 Hours...

I don't think anyone would deny that Sheppard sees McKay as a friend but he also puts up with a lot of his faults and certainly isn't blind to them.


I also felt a little too much like everything in McKay's life that has gone wrong must be his fault--especially in regards to his sister.

But most of it IS his fault and that's kind of the point. The guy is a genius and gets virtually everything right in his professional life. His personal life is meant to be that total contrast - he does screw up quite badly yet is not prepared to take the blame. That's why this episode was important. He was always adament that the fault lay with his sister but comes to realise that he was the one to blame.


You know, it's not really out of the realm of possibility for a genre television show to successfully combine the metaphysical aspects with legitimate character development; BSG, ST;DS9, heck even SG1 to an extent, have all demonstrated that. Though this far into the series, I no longer have that much hope for Atlantis.

Considering we're eight episodes in and have already seen lasting development for Rodney and Ronon which was touched on in a following episode, that is rather unfair. TPTB have also said they are aware that they haven't done as much character development as they should and are making steps to rectify that. It's unfair to write them off before the end of the season.

This was a great episode for character development. It took the 'everyday' Rodney we see and gave us greater insight into why he is like that and that he can change. I don't think he's going to be all sweetness and light from here on in - nor do I want him to be! Just because he is reconciled with his sister doesn't mean he'll lose his arrogance or snark. That's too ingrained in him to ever change I think. But at least we have seen how he can be.

CalmStorm
September 9th, 2006, 11:39 AM
Loved the episode. Very good entertainment :)

My favorite scene....the one where McKay and his sister were onboad the Daedalus with Sam communicating from the SGC. Loved where McKay's sister pointed out that she solved his problem in her spare time, and with finger paints. Absolutely loved this scene. Loved when Sam butted in and was amused at their "sorry" :samanime20:

I think the writer's are trying to give us a little more of what the audience has been asking for. We saw Shep in his spare time...practicing his swing and we saw the group together on several occasions laughing and having a good time.

I want the focus to continue to shift towards the characters, and not so much "we need this to happen in this episode, no matter how inconsistent, to further a story plot and/or lead into the next episode". The story is important, but not when it is at the sacrafice of the characters. Speaking of characters, where the h*** is Beckett?

Overall, I really liked this episode...enough so that I have already watched it twice this morning :P

SimilarCadence
September 9th, 2006, 11:46 AM
I loved this episode:

*Kate Hewlett was amazing----I hope she makes many more return visits.....

*loved seeing so much character development for Rodney---the fact that he grew up as a little boy named Meredith explains a great many things....poor baby. Liked that Rodney had his little a-ha moments of self-revelation, with Rod as his catalyst. Rodney's world pretty much revolves around himself, but I've always felt there was so much more to him than that and it's great to see that being explored. David Hewlett is such a joy to watch.....whether as Rodney or Rod......

*so glad the writers seem to have gotten over the Rodney/Sam crush thing and are just letting them be the competitive geniuses they are when they're together---Jeannie's addition made it a pretty impressive trio.....

*for me, the depleted ZPM definitely makes up for the fact that they can take day trips to Earth.....

*the technobabble was fine with me---after all, it's what they do. :cool:

*this is the Sheppard I've been missing---such a nice touch to have him show the "Letters from Pegasus" video to Jeannie. For me, that showed how much he cared about Rodney as a friend.....

*I like the way the writers are deliberately upping the teaminess factor---the team actually comes across as friends rather than just co-workers. Others have mentioned not liking the ridiculing of Rodney in the cafeteria....I probably would have felt the same way if their interactions together over the past couple of years hadn't convinced me that the others have a deep regard for Rodney.....

*Thought for the Day: you can never have too much Zelenka.....


*I'd actually give this episode a 10---now this is what I expect from a show with Stargate in the title.

saberhagen83
September 9th, 2006, 12:08 PM
A really great episode. It was wonderfull to see Kate, she did an excellent job in this ep, and I hope she will return sometime again. Probably the best McKay centered ep, great development for the character. I hope the depleted ZPM means that the show will move back to what it was in season 1. Less crossovers and more searching for more ZPMs.

It will be interesting to see the rest of this season, where it leads, as well as the next season. A great ep, 9/10 from me. :D

ladyjanus
September 9th, 2006, 12:29 PM
A very nice episode, all in all, funny and touching and well-acted...

Would have liked to have seen more Weir/Rodney and/or Rod interaction, but that's a scruffy little nitpicky thing...

I liked the scene where Rodney's coming in the gate, he's in a hurry and distracted and all snarky and everything, but he still can't resist sneaking a peek at Carter's butt as he goes by her...

ladyjanus

EdenSG
September 9th, 2006, 01:41 PM
Wow. I really loved this episode. All the episodes this season have been so great it is getter harder and harder to pick a favorite. There is like 4 of them now from season 3 that I would call my most favorite.

Loved the sister/brother interaction between Rodney and Jeannie. You could see from the beginning that they really care for each other but after so much hurt and so many years apart they had trouble connecting again – and I thought they were both a little stubborn in that neither one of them was comfortable in making the first gesture. I saw an analogy that while they were trying to create a bridge between our universe and the AU, they also needed to build a bridge between themselves.

Loved the line in the Daeddy when Rodney tells Jeannie that “we are at war” and her quick response is to ask Rodney, “Did you start it?” It was just a very typical sibling type of response.

Loved how Sheppard – despite his teasing of Rodney, showed the tape from “Letters to Pegasus” to Jeannie. He obviously recognized how hurt Rodney was over his estranged relationship with his sister. It shows how much John cares for Rodney. I also thought the fact that Rodney went to Sheppard for advice shows that - despite the teasing - he trusts John enough to seek him out. Also thought the way John handled it was perfect. He didn’t really tell Rodney what to do – he just kept saying enough to keep Rodney talking and to let Rodney draw his own conclusions and solutions. John probably realized that if simply told Rodney what to do Rodney might have taken offense and left but by allowing Rodney to talk it out he figured things out on his own. Good interaction between John and Rodney – good growth moment for Rodney.

Speaking of the teasing, I didn’t think the remarks from the team in the cafeteria were meant to hurt or humiliate Rodney. Friends do tease each other. (Though I did cringe a little at the underwear on the head remark) I remember my husband dreaded taking me to his college reunion because he knew his buddies would take extreme delight at regaling me with all the embarrassing stories – and other girls - from his college days, which of course they did. But it was not mean spirited we all laughed about it. But I think Rodney is actually very insecure in his relationships with people so seeing his reaction from his POV is interesting insight into his character. He tried to laugh it off, but one could see he was uncomfortable. Which is why I thought the last scene was such a good team bonding/caring moment. I think they realized they needed to reach out to Rodney, to let him know they did care and they do like him more than Rod. And they did. It was perfect.

Loved the golfing scene with Sheppard and the AU Rod. Interesting to see how our Sheppard was uncomfortable to learn that his AU Sheppard was a genius, arrogant and up late each night with Mensa get-togethers.

Have to say I am not too upset about the loss of the ZPM. It does add that desperate element to the story and increases the danger level – makes for good drama and perhaps for some interesting stories.

Kudos to both DH and KH for such a terrific acting job. I hope too they find a reason to bring KH back. She was great.

Kudos to Martin Gero for a great story and script.


** Note: I saw that some questioned why Jeannie would not have seen the tape from “Letters from Pegasus.” I wondered at first too but then I realized that those tapes were essentially good byes to their loved ones because they thought they were going to die. But Earth was able to launch a rescue effort. So I would think that SGC decided not to show the tapes to family members till they know whether or not the rescue effort was successful. Why show the tapes and have hundreds of frantic, grieving family members to deal with when everything was hopefully going to go well and they would all survive. So maybe they only showed the taped to the family members of those that did not suvive the attack. Does this make sense?

Admiral Mappalazarou
September 9th, 2006, 01:53 PM
I think that this ep was fun, but prefered Common Ground. The Two McKay's reminded me of Red Drawf, n' I love Red Drawf :)

saberhagen83
September 9th, 2006, 02:13 PM
** Note: I saw that some questioned why Jeannie would not have seen the tape from “Letters from Pegasus.” I wondered at first too but then I realized that those tapes were essentially good byes to their loved ones because they thought they were going to die. But Earth was able to launch a rescue effort. So I would think that SGC decided not to show the tapes to family members till they know whether or not the rescue effort was successful. Why show the tapes and have hundreds of frantic, grieving family members to deal with when everything was hopefully going to go well and they would all survive. So maybe they only showed the taped to the family members of those that did not suvive the attack. Does this make sense?

It does make sense actually. You may be right. I was wondering as well why she didn't see the tape before. But as you say, since most was a goodbye letter/video they might not have given them to the families of the people that survived.

Gate Geek
September 9th, 2006, 02:47 PM
I have to give my kudos for this episode!!

While not a overt fan of McKay centric episodes, I thought this one was very well done and certainly not McKay going OTT.

I was also impressed with the team moments and even the Sheppard and McKay friendship moments that added to the dynamic of this episode.

I thought the scene with McKay in Shep's quarters was a great friendship dynamic!! I love how Sheppy lets McKay go on his rant and figure things out for himself while he patiently cleans his golf clubs.

I also enjoyed the scenes of the team around the table talking and laughing. Even though it was at McKay's expense, the team did come through and gave him a much needed ego boost and let him know he was really part of the team in the end.

Sheppy showing the video to Jeannie - priceless. I thought this really showed some character depth to Sheppard. I thought it was his way of trying to help Jeannie realize that Rodney did care for her and missed her, while at the same time, letting Jeannie know that McKay is respected, well liked, and really has friends who care about him and look out for him.

Overall, it was a well written episode with several lighthearted moments. The depletion of the ZPM was a bit of a shocker and will be interesting to see what further implications this will cause down the line.

My rating 8/10.

Callie
September 9th, 2006, 03:00 PM
Why are the Millers living in Sam Carter’s house? The establishing shot of their house was so obviously a reused one from – I suspect – “Ascension.” It even had Sam Carter’s car outside! So when Sam turned up shortly afterwards, I expected her first question to be, “What are you doing in my house?”! The dumb thing is, on the establishing shot, the door is white, while whenever Jeanie opens the door, it’s dark red; and Jeanie’s house has a verandah while the establishing shot house doesn’t.

Anyone else spot the bizarre face on one of the towers in the new establishing shot of Atlantis? It’s the shot of the city taken from low down on the ocean surface before Rod hits the golf ball into it. Look at the tallest tower towards the right – there’s definitely a face on it!

Bragi
September 9th, 2006, 03:14 PM
I just thought of something.

I really think Rod should have referred to the Jumper as a Gateship.

Maybe it's just me, but I think it would be funny if "our's" was the only reality to refer to them as Puddle Jumpers.

Descent
September 9th, 2006, 03:17 PM
I just thought of something.

I really think Rod should have referred to the Jumper as a Gateship.

Maybe it's just me, but I think it would be funny if "our's" was the only reality to refer to them as Puddle Jumpers.

That would've been great! Where the hell were you when MG wrote the episode! :P :mckay:

Easter Lily
September 9th, 2006, 03:30 PM
I love and adore Rodney but, let's face it, he's an arrogant, rude, antagonistic, smug little sod. Or at least that's what he chooses to be. Now we are aware from his back story that there are reasons he is this way but still he doesn't make himself easy to get on with nor does he go out of his way to make people like him. And that's one of the things I like about his character. I don't ever see him thinking less of himself because of the others ribbing him - it just irritates the heck out of him that they don't worship the ground he walks on! He does need that knocking down a peg or two because otherwise his ego would get out of control.
You've done a good job responding to these posts, DF... don't think I can do it much better... But I just wanted to add a few comments.

I suppose I'm also having a great deal of difficulty with perceiving this Rodney teasing and bantering as demeaning or small-minded, fundamentally because he is the kind of person who opens himself to it. He gives as good as he gets. In a normal office situation, he would be ostracized/criticised for his distinct lack of interpersonal skills. The man's not just arrogant but a control freak. It really is to DH's credit that the character has garnered so many fans in spite of his rather anti-social tendencies but I still think we need to take a broader view of things.

I'm one of the odd ones I suppose... ;) I adore Rodney and personally I think the teasing makes him more likeable. Not because I like teasing people for the sake of teasing them but in Rodney's case it humanizes him... and makes him appear less (for want of a better word) high and mighty. Or extravagant. Sometimes I don't think there's a lot separating him and Kavanagh personalitywise except for the fact that he doesn't hold grudges and has shown a willingness to change.
There's someone I work with who reminds me of Rodney. As a colleague, he has a number of desirable qualities but frankly speaking, he's not someone I would choose to marry. I myself cope with being in close proximity with this person by teasing him (don't care for underwear jokes myself) occasionally. It helps me let off steam without resorting to physical violence. To his credit, he takes all the teasing rather good naturedly.
I can't imagine what it is like working with McKay day in day out in close quarters. In that regard, I agree with Lorne... Sheppard really does have the patience of Job.


I don't think anyone would deny that Sheppard sees McKay as a friend but he also puts up with a lot of his faults and certainly isn't blind to them.
I think it goes both ways... Consider the Kirk joke... Rodney being protective of his sister when he thinks Sheppard is being rather too friendly. I thought that was funny (and I'm a big time Shep fan).


This was a great episode for character development. It took the 'everyday' Rodney we see and gave us greater insight into why he is like that and that he can change. I don't think he's going to be all sweetness and light from here on in - nor do I want him to be! Just because he is reconciled with his sister doesn't mean he'll lose his arrogance or snark. That's too ingrained in him to ever change I think. But at least we have seen how he can be.
I suspect that David Hewlett enjoys that side of the character far too much to ever let that change. :D

Traveler Enroute1
September 9th, 2006, 03:34 PM
Approved of this ep. The brother-sister dynamic is VERY familiar to me (except a 4 year disconnect - yipe) so I saw a lot of work go into making their encounters plausible. Great work from both Kate and David.

There was good tension in the story, with Rod's appearance and subsequent admission that he was stuck there; the realization that the subspace connection was dangerous to both universes and the loss of the ZPM power so Rod could return safely. The level of technobabble didn't bother me but thank god for schematics! As to the alternate "Rod" being as easy going as Rodney isn't: a bit spooky to see him smiling all the time!

I actually don't get what is so humorous about the name Meredith, male or female; go figure.

One thing puzzled me: Rod showed his alt-sister pictures of her three children as "what your future looks like." But they're an alternate reality (or universe, meh) so how does that become her future or did I miss that his is a "possible" future?

Nice guest appearance with Sam Carter. She seems to have learned how to deal with her fellow genius and Rodney seems easier around her now, although they still play their competitive tension well.

Just sayin', it's a definite 9/10. An enjoyable hour with humor, angst and a big headache with the loss of the hallowed ZPM. I hope this means things will really get cookin' for the rest of the season and for Season 4. My nickle's worth :)

rarocks24
September 9th, 2006, 03:52 PM
About the ZPM, I feel for it, I really do. I can't believe they wasted it. They should have found another ZPM before attempting such a thing. :mad:

I mean, the difficulty and trouble SG1 put into finding the ZPM alone is worth keeping the ZPM. :mad:

LiLTiff17
September 9th, 2006, 05:00 PM
Another thing I was going to mention was that SG-1 and Atlantis tonight both relied on silly, childish type humor. Ronan and Teyla cracking up: "you had underwear on your head!" What is this, Boy Meets World?
Actually I think picturing McKay with underwear on his head is enough to make anyone laugh-even Ronon.

CalmStorm
September 9th, 2006, 05:10 PM
About the ZPM, I feel for it, I really do. I can't believe they wasted it. They should have found another ZPM before attempting such a thing. :mad:

I mean, the difficulty and trouble SG1 put into finding the ZPM alone is worth keeping the ZPM. :mad:

At the very least, I would have hoped that they would have asked "Rod" where they found both of their ZPMs on the off-chance that perhaps this reality had them and they could check it out.

What if Rod and company found the ZPMs on planets in the Pegasus Galaxy that the team here had not visited. I understand that they are alternate universes, but at the same time, there are many similarities. As Rod pointed out, his Shep was arrogant, his Teyla was hard to talk to, and that his Ronon was the same. Somewhat different personalities, but still the exact same team.

ShadowMaat
September 9th, 2006, 05:19 PM
I wish they'd played up some of the differences a bit more. Like not having Ronon exist at all in Rod's world. Or have him be someone who was killed when trying to attack the team or found already dead or something. Again, this would have been a perfect chance to mention Ford and with Martin supposedly being friends with Rainbow, you'd think he'd have given him a shout-out. Or mention how Weir has been killed/replaced. Or that Sumner is alive and in charge. Or Zelenka is dead. Or Kavanaugh is a valued and supportive member of the team. Several opportunities for throw-away lines detailing the differences between the two universes were, IMO, wasted.

EDIT: Incidentally, has anyone asked why Team Atlantis would set up an experiment in Atlantis that had previously wiped out an entire solar system?

SGalisa
September 9th, 2006, 06:02 PM
Originally posted by ShadowMaat:
EDIT: Incidentally, has anyone asked why Team Atlantis would set up an experiment in Atlantis that had previously wiped out an entire solar system?I can't answer the question, but the whole idea of doing that very thing bothered me, and surprised me that Zelenka would actually set the whole thing up in Atlantis - perhaps with Dr. Weir's permission, too. :eek:

(playing with fire?) It was like having a campfire set up in an already timber dry forest with the Santa Ana winds blowing thru the area... tempting fate. :(

jayeffaar
September 9th, 2006, 06:09 PM
There were no good "ZPM-Centric" episodes and we haven't even used the thing since... a long time ago

Actually, they had to use the ZPM every time someone gated back to Earth, which has happened a lot this season. Now, they have to take the long way home.

PG15
September 9th, 2006, 06:24 PM
Wow...uh...I don't know what to say. I think I've teared up once before in Stargate, but I can't remember that well...but the end of this episode was just...the greatest scene of Stargate (among many other shows) that I've ever seen. The picture quality of that scene got a bit murky though, thanks to this weird liquid beneath my eyelids.

It's hard to type right now, really...I mean, suffice it to say, Martin Gero is beyond God now, UberGod...and David Hewlett deserves several Emmies by this point if those things meant anything anymore.

On a whole, this is one of the top 3 of Gero stories (and Atlantis stories in general). In terms of character moments, this is the best of the franchise as far as I'm concerned. Just...wow.

I'm not gonna do a "points" section this time, because the whole episode just runs together so well, from character moment to character moment. The technobabble that I've seen people complain about is so far in the background (IMHO) of this episode that it's even worth mentioning. The characters is what mattered.

Jeannie was just wonderfully portrayed by Kate Hewlett, who I've seen on 11 Cameras now, and she was just phenomenal. She has that spirit, it's hard to put it down in writing, but she has that wonderful spirit that makes actors capable of standing up to a plethora of situations, and act against that perfectly each time. Of course, this is all thanks to David Hewlett for convincing Martin Gero to change the wording in "Hot Zone".

What can I say about David Hewlett's performance besides its perfect-ness? Probably nothing, but that last hug was great, as I've repeated above. "Rod" was pretty cool too, and he was perfect as a foil for our McKay to reveal his inner workings.

There were the other stuff too, like Jeannie's home. I mean, they didn't technically need any of that extra stuff, but the way they did it just piled on the personal nature of this episode, and this of course made it much much better. You know right away that this is going to be a quiet and introspective episode, and Gero and the 2 Hewlett just hit it home.

There is also, of course, Jeannie's intro into the world of Stargate, and what an entrance it was! I think she portrayed wonder better than any other character who was in this situation.

What's more, we've had a major development in this episode and that's the death of our beloved ZedPM. There will be no more instant trips (I bet a lot of Atlantis-only fans are happy, and I am as well, somewhat), and the peril for the city just upped itself several times.

Lastly, we have team bonding moment, which we've gotten more than our share in this season, which seems to just get better and better especially with Shep's backstory next week! Not only that, Gero did it perfectly with the 3 "similar" scenes, the parallels. I guess what I'm trying to say is, this episode felt like a movie, and I wished it could've kept going. Also, Kate Hewlett REALLY needs to come back.

This episode had almost everything, and what it lacked, it more than made up in the other things. This is Atlantis at its best.

Score 10/10...and then some.

PS: I hope they refer to Rodney as Meredith occasionally from now on. :D

ShadowMaat
September 9th, 2006, 06:25 PM
I can't answer the question, but the whole idea of doing that very thing bothered me, and surprised me that Zelenka would actually set the whole thing up in Atlantis - perhaps with Dr. Weir's permission, too. :eek:
I remember being very surprised they were in Atlantis... and then realizing I shouldn't be surprised at all. :rolleyes: Initially, though, I figured they were in a distant outpost, out of harm's way.

I forgot about it in the excitement of the ep, but that was a phenomenally stupid thing for them to do. As usual. *sigh*

SGalisa
September 9th, 2006, 06:49 PM
maybe it was an *oopsy*...
But by now, TPTB and everyone in the crew (at least someone, anyone) should realize that SG viewers DO notice the littlest details in things. It might take a little while to keep watching it several times over or just a nudging from someone actually mentioning it, before the storyline's *agh!* line boo-boo is exposed...

...unless it was done deliberately on purpose as:
Sort of like the wiz kids of geekdom got so overly excited about their idea, that they forgot about that one tiny detail that requires a magnifying glass to read and is usually labelled under itzy-bitzy letters as:

"in case of {causing potential} catastrophe, DON'T do...!!" :eek: ;)

Descent
September 9th, 2006, 07:32 PM
This episode better get a *** on GW, come on Darren. :P

Willow'sCat
September 9th, 2006, 07:32 PM
Yeah, seemed a bit mean-spirited and hurtful to me, but then I was always an outsider in school so like I said earlier- that stuff hit a little too close to home.I have to say it was those totally unnecessary moments in this ep and his girly real name (sorry to any male Meredith's out there :o ) that made this a lesser episode and really for me it reflects badly on Martin Gero, sorry Martin maybe you were bullied and you are venting here but it was plain mean spirited and made the bonding moments with Sheppard harder to believe. I was thinking the whole time; is Sheppard just amusing Rodney or does he mean what he says?

And then the last scene where IMHO the rest of the Team lie to Rodney.... well that is great! :mad: Wonderful lets all sit around lying to people who have our lives in their hands shall we. :rolleyes:

The one big bonus in this ep was Kate Hewlett.... I am going to say it :o

Kate Hewlett how are you so awesome!!!! :D

More Kate please, Jeannie just belongs there! :) See get the casting and chemistry right and everything else falls into place. ;)

As for the rest of the ep that didn't include making fun at McKay's expense *thinking was there any?* Oh yes... the plot!

Um, yes stupid *stupid* letting our only charged ZPM go not sure what the alternative was but *stupid* Well unless this is all working up to isolating Atlantis again from Earth, then I can go along with it. I get the feeling though that wasn't what they had in mind (SG-1 being cancelled my take them there now however).

David Hewlett again puts in a fine performance as not only McKay but AU McKay, I have not cried over a TV episode in a long time, I am a little jaded these days... that last moment with Jeannie and Rodney made me break out the tissues, it was very slight but those two just WOW! they are just *speechless*... brilliant moment, acting. ;)

Loved the WOO moment with Sheppard and Rod, well OK yes it was a WOO moment but hey why not? It isn't like we would have heard about AU Sheppard without it, not in this show, so I am happy enough to revisit. *cough* could have been happier *cough* sadly that was not to be; not on this show. :p

Wow Ronon was kind of funny... Ronon should be allowed to act more out of character, make Ronon less well Ronon. :D

*Poor* Teyla still not a lot happening for her here.

Weir, I think she was good in this, although again too much of Sheppard/Weir agreeing... come on one ep where they go at each other's throats.

Sheppard was a fraking jerk but he redeemed himself somewhat, and why does he still have Rodney's message? *hmm, raises eyebrow* interesting. ;) :p And the Kirk thing.... Now tell me Martin isn't lurking around the forums.

Doctor Meredith Rodney McKay, well I actually like the name but a reason for it would have been nice, it isn't a common name for a guy so as I said Martin Gero (if he was responsible) seemed to just add it for "put down" effect. Not sure why; lets face it many already think Rodney is nothing but a girl. :rolleyes: Also seems odd to me that Sam didn't know it already, are we really to believe that she didn't have access to McKay's files? Or for that matter Weir or Sheppard... again it was used to "put down" McKay and how intelligent is that? :rolleyes:

I loved seeing Rodney question himself and his place on Atlantis, his relationship with his sister and the realisation that he has been a rotten brother. Having two brothers myself I know how hard it is to keep a sibling relationship going, and most guys are just crap at it anyway... that is why I found this part of the story the most impelling/important for McKay. I could relate to the reasons you don't keep up contact, and really you don't always realise you are not keeping up contact... it just happens. :(

David Hewlett and Kate Hewlett were brilliant, it couldn't have been easy for either of them. David having to play what accentually is two different characters, and Kate coming into a show with an established cast and having one of them her brother. Well she made it feel like Jeannie had always been there... she not only has great chemistry with her brother but she seemed to fit so well with the other cast members.

Yes I want more Kate/Jeannie. :)

I could say more about *where is the love for McKay?!?!* but you probably know where I stand on the way TPTB are so psychophrenic when it comes to writing him, so I will just say...

This episode was not as good as I wanted it to be, my own fault for thinking, all be it breifely, that McKay would be supported by his Team in this episode... but anyway it is by far the best episode for season 3 and most of season 2 IMHO. If they can continue to bring more humanity to the characters they will eventually have *again* a great little scifi show on their hands. ;)

*sorry about all the smilies*

JohnDuh
September 9th, 2006, 07:59 PM
Well, I made it known in the live thread how disgusted I was by Rodney's (yet again) HORRIBLE treatment. Let's just humiliate him again and again and again and again and again and again and then have Sheppard put some "we were just playing" white-out on it. This was very, very difficult to stomach.

I agree, its disgusting.

JohnDuh
September 9th, 2006, 08:08 PM
Well, it was amusing to see Ace Rimmer, and from an esthetically point of view it was nice to see Hewlets sister, she has a much fuller figure that the rather undernourish look females on American TV normally sports - I like it. It would be nice having her around if it wasn't for the fact she would be yet another one to rag on Rodney when what the series, and he, needs is someone who is (credibly) on his side.

However, the whole episode reeks of "unable to write for the format, must change format" and so they contrive a way to destroy the ZPM to reduce the abilities of Atlantis. Guys, hire better writing talent.

Descent
September 9th, 2006, 08:11 PM
However, the whole episode reeks of "unable to write for the format, must change format" and so they contrive a way to destroy the ZPM to reduce the abilities of Atlantis. Guys, hire better writing talent.

Or the ZPM couldn't of gotten depleted and you would have gotten a cliche' happy ending. :zelenka26:

ShadowMaat
September 9th, 2006, 08:18 PM
I know some people are saying that the scene at the end "redeems" all the earlier cruelties, but I don't see it that way at all.

For starters, all the comments about Rod being "creepy" and "too nice" came off as blatant fabrications. That wouldn't make me feel better, it'd make me feel worse. It'd confirm my fear/paranoia that my so-called friends liked the other me better and that they're now lying to me in order to cover it up. Maybe Rodney's lucky enough to let his ego cover over the false platitudes and make them seem real, but I'd still expect it to gnaw at him in quieter moments. Or I'd expect it on a show that doesn't worship the almighty Reset Button. *sigh* Alas, Rodney's gonna go back to being his same old stereotypical self, utterly unchanged by events. As usual.

Willow'sCat
September 9th, 2006, 08:43 PM
For starters, all the comments about Rod being "creepy" and "too nice" came off as blatant fabrications.As I said in my post THEY lied to him at the end... Sheppard was even smirking! Why people can't see that is beyond me, they lied! :mad: To a Team member! Great!


I didn't notice the Sam-looking-blankly thing, but it seemed that the two Rodneys at certain moments were not looking exactly at each other. They sometimes seemed slightly off. Still, I was impressed by the technicalities of the scenes.Yes I noticed that when they fist meet, AU Rod is not looking at *our* Rodney at all! :S


I don't have a problem with adults teasing each other sometimes, but... For me it was just made worse because Rodney wasn't written (hello Martin) any real come back snarky lines, he just took it, again to me it is not the McKay I know, sure he can as someone said earlier grow as a character but the snark makes him McKay other wise he is just another arrogant annoying scientist! The only thing I can think of for McKay not being snarky is that this *bullying* is that hurtful that he still carries emotional scares, but hey lets laugh about that anyway.... oh and if you don't find it all just so hilarious, you must have no sense of humour! :cool: :rolleyes:



First off, I don't think it was in character for Jeannie to be telling those private childhood humiliations about Rodney to his co-workers, whom she's only just met. It was inappropriate and hurtful, even if she was upset with him for things he'd said and done. And the team's responses seemed a little juvenile to me, as well.
I agree with this, there are times I have really been p*$$ed off with my siblings, well often but I wouldn't never do that, not with complete strangers! :mckay: That is bad form and only a real lowlife would go against family like that, you have to stick up for your own even when they are wrong, well that is what I believe. Funny I know Martin has sisters... :S



I think they could have teased Rodney in a way that was less humiliating. I don't know, a certain amount of fandom seem to think it is very funny. Not to mention the TPTB who write this stuff.


I was wondering how Sheppard knew about Rodney's LfP video? Had Sheppard watched all the videos in that ep? Have to say I find that interesting, first we know it was sent to Earth they all were, that was the plot in LFP, so why does John has a copy? :p Also Kavanaugh asked who would be seeing the tapes... Ford said something like only Jack O'Neill, or the higher up bigwigs.

So again *asks innocently* what is Sheppard doing with a copy?! :D


I did miss CarsonI feel ashamed as a former Carson fan and Thunker, but I didn't even realise until I read some of the episode posts that he wasn't in this one. :o I hope the rumours are not true, the less you see of him the more I start to worry and given how close Rodney is with Carson, I always thought more then even Sheppard... well it seems now looking back like a HUGE omission on Martin Gero's part to not included some Carson moments, I mean even a cursory medical examination of AU Rod, my god even Chaya got that! :cool: OF COURSE that may have been the point, only Carson would really want to stand up for Rodney, I get the feeling Carson may have been teased himself at school *mummy's boy* ;)

rhade
September 9th, 2006, 09:20 PM
This was a good episode but I too have a problem with the experiment they did. You would think after everything they have seen and how many other univereses they have accessed that they would know that the chances they would have of accessing another universe would be higher than they stated. I thought overall it was good and that having no ZPM will be good for awhile.

smushybird
September 9th, 2006, 09:26 PM
I agree with this, there are times I have really been p*$$ed off with my siblings, well often but I wouldn't never do that, not with complete strangers! :mckay: That is bad form and only a real lowlife would go against family like that, you have to stick up for your own even when they are wrong, well that is what I believe. Funny I know Martin has sisters... :S

Yes! I can't even imagine going to the law office where my sister works and meeting her boss and co-workers and telling them, 'hey, guess what she did when she was ten..." etc. That would be a horrible thing to do, and Jeannie seems like such a nice, mature, sympathetic woman, it was unbelievable to me that she'd do that to her brother. The underwear on the head thing and the bedwetting crack....c'mon! Maybe I'm being an over-sensitive female and maybe guys really do treat each other that mercilessly sometimes, but jeez. Nobody deserves to be humiliated that way in front of people they have to work with day in and day out.
But I think what bothered me even more than the team's teasing was that Jeannie had given them the ammunition to begin with.



Have to say I find that interesting, first we know it was sent to Earth they all were, that was the plot in LFP, so why does John has a copy? :p Also Kavanaugh asked who would be seeing the tapes... Ford said something like only Jack O'Neill, or the higher up bigwigs.

So again *asks innocently* what is Sheppard doing with a copy?! :D

Well, you and I know the real reason why... :D But I suppose other people may assume that since Sheppard appears to love to poke around into files etc, to find out personal information (such as Liz's birthday), he probably did the same with Rodney's video. Rodney gave the original to Ford, didn't he? Maybe Ford shared it with Sheppard.



I mean even a cursory medical examination of AU Rod, my god even Chaya got that!

That occurred to me too! That would have been a good moment to include Carson, to examine Rod, and I don't know why it wasn't done, except that episode was so crammed full, they must've just not had room for it.
I agree with you on the name thing... I like that he's named Meredith Rodney McKay...I think it's sweet, but using it to add another reason to make fun of Rodney...I didn't like that as much. One little tease by Sheppard or Sam, that's okay, but they were a little too relentless with it.
I have respect for Rodney. I'd like to see the writers have a wee bit more respect for him, too.
But again....I'm with you and Shadowmaat and whomever else sighed about the reset button. Rodney's grown but they don't let him stay grown consistently. Hell, they seldom do anything consistently, and there's no excuse for that. None. The writers need to get it together. Hello, they're not writing for ten yr olds who don't care about that stuff. We want intelligent stories with continuity.

Btw, did they say what Jeannie's husband did for a living? I only caught the English major crack. They seemed to be living quite well, whatever he does. And Maddy doesn't need more toys--their house is already a Toys R Us in progress. :D Wonder if there was an inheritance, if Rodney and Jeannie's dad is gone? Where's mom? This ep left a lot of questions.

Scyld
September 9th, 2006, 09:34 PM
I know some people are saying that the scene at the end "redeems" all the earlier cruelties, but I don't see it that way at all.

For starters, all the comments about Rod being "creepy" and "too nice" came off as blatant fabrications. That wouldn't make me feel better, it'd make me feel worse. It'd confirm my fear/paranoia that my so-called friends liked the other me better and that they're now lying to me in order to cover it up. Maybe Rodney's lucky enough to let his ego cover over the false platitudes and make them seem real, but I'd still expect it to gnaw at him in quieter moments. Or I'd expect it on a show that doesn't worship the almighty Reset Button. *sigh* Alas, Rodney's gonna go back to being his same old stereotypical self, utterly unchanged by events. As usual.

Wow. Just... wow.

Do you seriously expect Rodney to be a slave to adolescent resentments and playground insecurities? I'm sorry, but that sort of thing just don't hold any weight anymore, especially when you have a group of people that cares for you as obviously as his friends do. Annoying, neurotic, condescending, and extremely arrogant Rodney may be, but he's not a child.

In any case, that sort of harmless ribbing between friends is totally normal, especially if the friends involved are male. It happens all the time, but it works out fine because everyone knows that nothing serious is meant by it. There is absolutely no reason to take what happened in this episode more seriously than it actually was (which is not very, even considering the threat of imminent doom to the entire Pegasus galaxy).

Willow'sCat
September 9th, 2006, 09:48 PM
In any case, that sort of harmless ribbing between friends is totally normal, especially if the friends involved are male. It happens all the time, but it works out fine because everyone knows that nothing serious is meant by it. There is absolutely no reason to take what happened in this episode more seriously than it actually was (which is not very, even considering the threat of imminent doom to the entire Pegasus galaxy).What you see as normal is your business, just glad I am not your friend.

But hey if people think having your sibling spill embarrassing moments about you to complete strangers is normal and fine then hey whatever! Remember Jeannie did not know them at all.

I found it badly written and to me Rodney was not happy, he did not seem comfortable at all about this harmless "normal" ribbing. :cool: :rolleyes:

Anyway to me it was aiming for and found the lowest common denominator.

Then, I am told this show is aimed at 14 year old boys. :cool: :rolleyes:

lily
September 9th, 2006, 10:19 PM
Well, I'm not going to read through all the pages here, so I guess I'll just post my comments:

I can't even say how much I love this episode. And to tell the truth, I can't say who much I'm loving this season. I either adore or at least like very VERY much every single episode this season, each of them for different reasons.

In particular, about this epi:

- Kate Hewlett's great. I'm so glad they got Kate to play Rodney's sister. And I'm so happy to hear Martin Gero is thinking about a way of bringing her back on season 4! They play together so well. The banter and sibling rivalry between Jeannie and Rodney was great throughout the episode, and the scene with both of them together at her quarters where she was packing was fantastic. When Rodney hugged her my eyes got wet, and I swear I saw Rodney's eyes getting a bit wet too. Lovely scene.
- nice Trinity follow-up. Trinity is one of my many SGA fave epis.
- AU Rodney and John playing golf. Niiiiiiiice. LOL
- I really enjoyed the Sam/Rodney banter very much here(unlike the scenes in SG-1's"The Pegasus Project", where Rodney suffered the "guest star syndrome" and all the SG-1 characters were in "let's get rid of this jerk ASAP" mode. Just MHO, of course. . Arrgggh)
- Meredith Rodney McKay. ROTFLMAO. Poor Rodney. John will never let this pass. LOL.
- Radek's comments about Rodney liking checklists. Oh, and buttons. LOL.
- John showing Jeannie the vid Rodney made in Letters from Pegasus. So touching!
- Absolutely fantastic banter, friendship and bonding between Rodney, John, Teyla and Ronon. Excellent. Loved every single scene to bits. The end was soooooooooooooooo good.
- no more ZPM. Niiiiiice. Now that opens a lot of interesting possibilities. I'm so glad it got depleted and not just barely at 10% or something. Rodney's comment about being "soooo fired" had me ROTFLMAO.

I loved every single second of this epi to bits! A 10 out of 10.

PG15
September 9th, 2006, 10:20 PM
EDIT: to Willow'sCat

Well, it's your opinion.

Still, that stuff is quite normal amongst us guys (even the socially-inept ones, like Rodney and me).

EDIT2: Wow, just watched the hug again...still got watery-eyed.

We need to clone Martin Gero, NOW.

Willow'sCat
September 9th, 2006, 10:47 PM
EDIT: to Willow'sCat

Well, it's your opinion.

Still, that stuff is quite normal amongst us guys (even the socially-inept ones, like Rodney and me).
I think you and others tend to be missing the point. ;)

It isn't that I don't get guys are idiots around other guys, like I said I have brothers, I have male friends and I am in a relationship with one. I know what guys can be like; I get it. ;)

I don't happen to see Rodney as getting it in this episode. :cool:

Why didn't he snark back with his usual venom?
Why did he just make silly laughing sounds and show himself to be totally uncomfortable?
Why would Jeannie even do that to her brother?

And a joke like this, is only a real joke when the person it is aimed at, is involved... :mckay: they were doing this behind his back... they were not bonding with him they were laughing at him.

metabog
September 9th, 2006, 11:38 PM
Even if they can't dial earth now, they'll still make the intergalactic stargate bridge really soon I guess.

Would be awesome if they found a planet with a stargate factory. :-)

scarimor
September 10th, 2006, 01:19 AM
Wonderful episode.

The character beats and humour were spot on and I loved seeing McKay slide effortlessly through his emotions in this one. The interplay between McKay, Jeannie and Sam was superb - Kate Hewlett and Amanda Tapping were a joy to watch. I would love to see more of these two on Atlantis. I also enjoyed the little touches of frustration and humour that Weir and Zelenka brought to their parts in the story.

I know I shouldn't grumble at the lack of Beckett - there wasn't really anything for him to do in this story so his absence is understandable - but I did find myself missing him when I began to wonder about the entropic cascade thingy re. alt-McKay.

Speaking of alt-McKay - I think I squealed when he materialized in the classic Terminator pose. lol!

And they've killed the ZPM. Ha! :D

grasshopper64
September 10th, 2006, 02:22 AM
Brilliant episode. As mentioned by someone earlier SGA has been consistently better that SG1 this season.

Kate Hewlett was brilliant in this, I thought the scenes with Sam were nicely done, although I was half expecting her to mention her brother when Rodney and Jeannie were arguing.

I liked AU Rod, so different to our Rodney. I felt the teasing of Rodney perhaps went to a little too far, but not over the top. And I loved the team scene at the end when they agreed their Rodney was much better than AU Rod.

The golf scene with Shep and Rod made me think of Window of Opportunity too. I think Jack would be proud of Shep:)

Nice touch with the loss of the ZPM, it will certainly makes things more interesting....

Can't wait for the next ep, gets and 8 out of 10 from me!

doylefan22
September 10th, 2006, 02:51 AM
I don't happen to see Rodney as getting it in this episode. :cool:

But isnt' that the entire point of the episode?


Why didn't he snark back with his usual venom?
Why did he just make silly laughing sounds and show himself to be totally uncomfortable?

Because he was uncomfortable. With the arrival of both Jeannie and Rod he was forced to confront how he treats people, how people see him and how different things could be. And obviously that was hard for him because for the first time we see him admitting that he has caused that. He's always so adament that everything is everyone else's fault and he is blameness. Here he's forced to admit that isn't true and that's an eyeopener. He sees them teasing him and making jokes and realises that his attitude has caused that. That if he wasn't so rude and mean to them then this sort of thing wouldn't happen so much. He's got a very antagonistic relationship with the others and he's beginning to see why that is.

The teasing of Rodney was nothing new and, quite frankly, he brings it on himself 90% of the time. I always look at the way he treats Zelenka which is pretty damn awlful. Rodney isn't a very nice guy and he certainly doesn't go out of his way to make people like him. Quite frankly I think he's lucky to have any friends at all most of the time and it's a testament to the others that they put up with his rudeness and condecending manner and can see the fairly decent guy underneath all that. A lot of the time they treat him with the same level of respect he does them - which appears to be very little. In group psychology terms it's their way of keeping him in check and showing him that that behaviour is unacceptable. Kind of the 'how do you like it?' mentallity.

But considering how they look out for him most of the time it is quite clear that they care about him a great deal.


Why would Jeannie even do that to her brother?

Because she's angry and wants to inflict pain on him like he did her. He hasn't spoken to her in 4 years because he didn't agree with her having a family. The likelyhood is he told her not to have Madison in the first place and hasn't even bothered to see her since. When she found out she was pregnant it's meant to be a happy time and Rodney near ruined that for her and has refused to forgive her for not doing what he wanted. He then turns up because he needs her help and treats her fairly poorly up until the end of the episode. She seemed very hurt by all that he did and in a small way this did feel like her getting her own back somewhat. Even by the end of the episode it didn't seem like she had forgiven him, just thought that maybe they could mend their relationship over time.


I am amazed to see people saying the team were clearly lying at the end because that is certainly not the impression I got. That, to me, is an utterly paranoid interpretation. From the way they were acting I got the distinct impression that they were well aware that Rodney was worried they liked Rod more than him and were purposefully saying those things to reassure him. That doesn't mean they were lies though. Quite frankly, I found Rod a little creepy and irritating myself and could totally see where they were coming from - I can definitely see Ronon being irritated by someone who was too nice and Teyla getting tired of being corrected on her Athosian history. They were certainly laying things out rather blatantly in order to make him see they were happier with their McKay but I don't automatically doubt they meant them because of that.

doylefan22
September 10th, 2006, 02:56 AM
About the ZPM, I feel for it, I really do. I can't believe they wasted it. They should have found another ZPM before attempting such a thing. :mad:

I mean, the difficulty and trouble SG1 put into finding the ZPM alone is worth keeping the ZPM. :mad:

Erm...wasn't the choice either ZPM or universe? In otherwords they had little choice. The ZPM wasn't anything to do with the experiment until they realised that they could use it to shut it down after an unforeseen event and they certainly didn't have time to find another ZPM. By the time they had collapsed the bridge, the power was down to 20% but Rod wasn't home...

immhotep
September 10th, 2006, 02:59 AM
This was a brilliant piece of work by the writers of SGA, it was so great, i loved every minute of it, and the character development for rodney was about 3 seasons worth of material. i cnat belive how good this episode was, everything was perfect IMO and im not gonig to go in to lots of detail but i think this episode is one of the best episodes of SGA so far and shows exactly why this series is gonig places finally.

PS NO ZPM..!!oh no what will they doo!

Nathan
September 10th, 2006, 03:45 AM
PS NO ZPM..!!oh no what will they doo!
Get one from the replicators when they come visiting next. If they don't how exactly will they defend themselves from Atlantis 4 when it comes?

aRthuR1
September 10th, 2006, 03:53 AM
I gave it a 7. It's a good thing they reused the project Arcturus idea, also a good thing introducing Mckay's sister... lots of fun :D but still not a great episode, just a fairly good one imo.

Willow'sCat
September 10th, 2006, 04:21 AM
That if he wasn't so rude and mean to them then this sort of thing wouldn't happen so much. He's got a very antagonistic relationship with the others and he's beginning to see why that is.

So because he is mean and can't really help it, it makes it OK to do what they did? It is justifiable to talk about him behind his back and make fun of things that happened to him as a child? How does that make them any better then Rodney? :cool:

IMO, if the writers would write him consistently it wouldn't happen so much, one minute he is SG-1 McKay *which I love* and the next he is some weird hybrid trying to fit in :S as Rod said, Rodney speaks his mind, he doesn't care what people think... but I would say as a fictional character :p he still has feelings.

The Team went out of their way to be mean... I have never thought Rodney goes out of his way to be mean, he just doesn't always understand that what he says is wrong or could be taken wrong. If he can say things like he said to Jeannie at her house it is obvious he doesn't always understand social morays. That may be an excuse but it is also 100% part of his personality and will not be changing!


Now what exactly is The Teams excuse other then payback for a behaviour they should know by now McKay can't seem to help. :cool:

And sorry no, I don't buy it, the team did lie to him. :cool: Given a choice they would have gone with Rod.

doylefan22
September 10th, 2006, 05:35 AM
So because he is mean and can't really help it, it makes it OK to do what they did? It is justifiable to talk about him behind his back and make fun of things that happened to him as a child? How does that make them any better then Rodney? :cool:

He can't really help it?! He's a grown man not a child. He's been around people and he's no fool. He's more than aware that you shouldn't treat people like he does and yet he chooses to do so. If he wished to he could make an effort to be nice but he just doesn't. He simply seems to see it as unimportant and doesn't know why he should bother. He's certainly not some innocent victim and he was right with his realisation in this episode - he brings these things upon himself. He needs that knocking down a peg or two - Weir has basically said he's his own worst enemy and she's utterly right. It's not a nice thing to have to do but, as I said, he's not a nice man. If they just let all his snide, rude and hurtful remarks go, never did anything in return and just let him treat them like cr*p, they would just be validating how he behaves. 'Trinity' showed just how badly out of control Rodney's personality and ego can get and why he needs that bringing down to earth. The message from the team to Rodney in this episode was 'We love you, mate, but sometimes you're a d*ck You're not easy to get on with but, in the end, we wouldn't want to get rid of you'.

They made fun of silly childhood incidents - so what? I take the p*ss out of my dad all the time for his afro hair and platform shoes back in the 60's and, yep, I'll quite happily do it when he's not in the room. Doesn't mean I don't love him though and he has enough of a sense of humour about himself to laugh about the matter too. One of Rodney's problems is that he doesn't have that ability - he can't laugh at himself and takes himself too seriously. In the long run, him having wet the bed when he was a kid means nothing. It's not important and he could quite easily laugh it off. But his paranoia and sense of self importance ('how dare people laugh at anything I've ever done? I'm too brilliant to ever have had embarassing moments!') prevent him from seeing it in perspective. Any 'normal' person would have laughed them off and likely have spilled embarassing stories about his sister in payback. Rodney's character flaws and insecurities don't let him do that. Which in the end is his problem and it is something he needs to try to deal with because it is only hurting himself.

If you met a Rodney in real life you wouldn't be saying to people 'aww, don't pick on him! That's so mean!'. You'd likely spend most of your time telling him to pull his head out of his a*se and go throw it off a bridge because most people, quite rightly, won't accept being treated like something nasty on the bottom of his shoe. The thing this episode did really well was illicit some sympathy for Rodney - we got to see things from his pov and see how he feels about the way he his treated by people. We also got to see that important revelation that he does realise that's his fault. How he was treated and how he treated others in this episode was played very, very well to show both party's pov and to add more understanding and more dimensions to Rodney's character.


And sorry no, I don't buy it, the team did lie to him. :cool: Given a choice they would have gone with Rod.

There was NOTHING there to suggest that at all. The only way you can get that is if you assume they really hate Rodney and don't think anything of him at all. And there is plenty of evidence from the previous 2 1/2 seasons to refute that.

I love Rodney but I am well aware of all his faults and that the rest of the team put up with a lot of nonsense from him. I don't think they're horrible, nasty people picking on poor little Rodney because he, more than anyone, needs to learn that what goes around comes around. They are more than capable of being very nice to him and often are but he rarely shows them any such courtesy. And when someone spends most of their time belittling and insulting others it's hardly surprising that those others get so fed up at times that they bite back. That's just human nature. The bottomline is however that they undeniably like and care about Rodney whatever he does and however he behaves.

ShadowMaat
September 10th, 2006, 06:03 AM
Do you seriously expect Rodney to be a slave to adolescent resentments and playground insecurities?
Actually, yes. It'd be in character for him because he certainly has a lot of other hang-ups and insecurities, why should this be any different?


I'm sorry, but that sort of thing just don't hold any weight anymore, especially when you have a group of people that cares for you as obviously as his friends do.
Your opinion, of course. I simply see things differently. For instance, I've noticed in several eps now that Rodney doesn't completely trust that these people are his friends and that they'd go to the ends of the world for him. Maybe deep, deep down he "knows", but the surface Rodney is very insecure and that's partly what makes him the way he is. Or at least, that's how I've always "read" the character. You, apparenly, have a different interpretation. Must be a much warmer, fuzzier world through your eyes. I envy that.


Annoying, neurotic, condescending, and extremely arrogant Rodney may be, but he's not a child.
I think he's acted like it a few times.... and I think Jeannie did, too. And some of the other characters as well. Most people have their moments of immaturity. Some simply last longer than others. ;)


In any case, that sort of harmless ribbing between friends is totally normal, especially if the friends involved are male.
Says you. Maybe your world isn't so warm and fuzzy after all because where I come from that sort of teasing is only marginally "friendly" and it isn't entirely harmless, either.

I agree with the others who've complained that Jeannie was out of line to tell those sorts of embarrassing stories to his friends/coworkers. I don't care how much I may be angry with my sister, I would never waltz into her place of business and start telling stories intended to humiliate her, nor would she do it to me. But then, maybe we aren't "normal." :rolleyes:

As for the "no reason to take things so seriously" line... How long have you been in fandom? Everything tends to get taken seriously by someone/some group, whether they have "reason" to or not. It's called being a fan and having an opinion. Just because you and/or anyone else don't happen to agree with what's being said doesn't make it any less valid to the person/people expressing it. YOU didn't have a problem with the teasing, but it's pretty obvious that some people did. Accept that, even if you can't agree with it.

Laura the Asgard
September 10th, 2006, 06:30 AM
I really enjoyed this episode. We got to see another side of Rodney and the best way to see how people really are is to see them interact with their families. One of my issues with the writing last year is that we didn’t get to know the characters. This year, we are getting more of these types of stories.

I agree with some on this thread that the way his friends picked on him was mean but then it shows that our heroes aren’t perfect people and that makes them more interesting. I can’t see Ronan laughing about childhood experiences involving underwear, but perhaps his experience in Sateda has lightened him up a little bit. It was just an odd thing for him to say. Rodney also grew as a person and discovered that he does care if people like him or not.

I liked that John showed Jeannie the video and the way they interacted with Rodney at the end. We are again left with an opening for another story that touches on this one. I am not one for soap operas but I like the continuity from one story to another and the latest stories are giving us open ends. What happened to the ZPM will make the stories much more interesting.

For those of you were disappointed that there is not enough Teyla or Beckett, I am hoping that they are just in the background now and will get their own story later in the season. I would like to see Teyla find some relatives that the wraith have recently released or some other story line that gives us insight on her back ground. Beckett’s mother coming to Atlantis could be interesting too. Maybe Paul was on vacation or otherwise unavailable when this was filmed?

Thanks again Atlantis for another great episode!

ShadowMaat
September 10th, 2006, 06:33 AM
For those of you were disappointed that there is not enough Teyla or Beckett, I am hoping that they are just in the background now and will get their own story later in the season.
They're main characters. They should have something to do in EVERY ep- or nearly so. Getting tossed one ep a year isn't really what I'd call inclusive, not for your leads.

Cory Holmes
September 10th, 2006, 07:05 AM
There are so many things that were gotten right in this episode that it's hard to actually count them all. The dialog was spot-on perfect, especially between Rodney and Jeannie, and the few one-liners between Rodney and Sheppard still have their usual zing.

However, I was most impressed with Sam in this little go-around. It was very amusing to see her flustered and shocked that McKay didn't immediatly slobber upon first sight of her pretty blond head. And did anyone else think that she was deliberatly trying to attract his attention while he was reading the notes by snapping her fingers incessently? I wonder whom she got that particular habit from :p

I thought the arrival of Rod slipped the episode a bit in quality, but only a bit. I would've preferred to meet Jeannie for the first time completely on Rodney's time, but bringing Rod into the picture allowed an easy contrast between what Rodney thought of himself and what everyone else around him thought.

And as for those viewers whom thought it strange that Jeannie was telling all sorts of juicy tidbits with his team, I'd like to state for the record that that is par for the course with my family. I do that to my brother all the time, and with no small amount of sadistic glee I might add.

Still, almost SGAs best. Episode. Evar. Not quite up with The Siege, but pretty darned close.

doylefan22
September 10th, 2006, 07:14 AM
I thought the arrival of Rod slipped the episode a bit in quality, but only a bit. I would've preferred to meet Jeannie for the first time completely on Rodney's time, but bringing Rod into the picture allowed an easy contrast between what Rodney thought of himself and what everyone else around him thought.

Yeah, in a way the Rod thing could have easily have been a completely seperate episode on its own (for a while I thought it was going to be until I read the more recent spoilers). It worked quite well though to really hammer home how Rodney is and how he could be. Good work there.


And as for those viewers whom thought it strange that Jeannie was telling all sorts of juicy tidbits with his team, I'd like to state for the record that that is par for the course with my family. I do that to my brother all the time, and with no small amount of sadistic glee I might add.

Yup, and that doesn't mean you're a horrible person or that you hate him. Just a pretty normal sibling relationship. I'll quite happily show people that photo of my brother looking like a budda statue as a baby or that time when I shoved his face into a piece of cake that he was leaning close to to smell. And he is more than capable of getting his own back! We're siblings, taking the p*ss out of one another is part of our job decription. ;)

Linzi
September 10th, 2006, 07:24 AM
Well, I have to say I was pleasantly surprised by this episode. I was expecting another GUP, but instead got a McKay centric episode that I REALLY enjoyed!
Firstly - all the teasing of Rodney. I do understand why some people, who perhaps have been teased a lot themselves in life, would find those scenes hard to take. However, I agree with the posters who say Rodney brings much of it on himself. He is arrogant, rude and domineering. He treats his staff like they're morons at times, and is a total control freak. However, I love him. Just how he is. He DOES deserve to be teased and brought down a peg or two, IMO. Just imagine what it would be like to work and live amongst a person who told you he was a genius all the time and who was so condescending. Of course, even if you loved him to death, you'd want to silence him every now and then. Point out his faults. Teach him a lesson.
As to Jeanie telling Rodney's friends about his childhood embarrassments, well, welcome to the real world. Just about everybody I know does that, or has had it done to them at some time. It's called having a joke and laugh! Sense of humours are so important in life! However, Jeanie wanted to make her brother suffer a little. He cut her off because she chose to have a family and put them first. He tried to control her life, and when she was having none of it - he cut her off. That is not the action of a caring, sensitive brother, is it? So when some here are feeling so sorry for poor Rodney, maybe they should look at his actions? What goes around comes around. Besides, it was obvious to me, that of course his team likes him and cares about him, but Rodney a poor little senstive soul who people are always mean to? I think not. He's a big boy, who can give as good as he gets, and I'm sure he's hurt at times, but he sure hurts back too. That's what I like about him, He says what he thinks and doesn't really care too much what others think of him.
Anyway, enough of that!
I loved Jeannie, she was brilliant. A great character, and I like the way Kate Hewlett portrayed her.
I loved the Sheppard/McKay interaction here. The little talk they had while Shep cleaned his golf clubs, ( they just HAD to get golf into a Stargate episode again, didn't they? lol!), and listened in an amused way to McKay's ranting, gave him a perceptive observation about the situation, and then let Rodney work everything out for himself. That's what friends do, they listen, comment and let the friend make up their own mind what to do. Great friendship stuff, IMO. I loved that Sheppard showed Jeannie the tape as well. Sheppard didn't have to do that, he did it because he cares about Rodney and wanted Jeannie to know that Rodney had bothered to contact her and did care about her. He did this without McKay knowing, so he'd never get any thanks for it. That again, is the act of a true friend.
The hug between Rodney and Jeannie brought tears to my eyes. I seem to be a bit teary in a few episodes this season. The writers are obviously doing their jobs well as far as I'm concerned!
The ZPM going? You know what? Good. Maybe there'll be some real jeopardy again in the show?
Finally, Meredith! I laughed myself senseless! Classic!
I gave this 8/10. Not my overall favourite this season, CG and Sateda take that honour, but it was a damn fine episode that continued the wonderful team feel of this season. Well done to all - again!

MB.Eddie
September 10th, 2006, 07:44 AM
Meredith Rodney McKay was quite funny.

Its good to see that they will have to go back to the S1 style where cant contact SGC. I would have been happy if they would have left the ZPM with 5-10% power though for emergancies.

jenks
September 10th, 2006, 07:45 AM
I liked all of it apart from the ending, everyone was like 'oh we lost the ZMP? , oh well' - I thought there would of been a bigger reaction, I mean they lost the ZPM ffs!

doylefan22
September 10th, 2006, 07:55 AM
I liked all of it apart from the ending, everyone was like 'oh we lost the ZMP? , oh well' - I thought there would of been a bigger reaction, I mean they lost the ZPM ffs!

I do see what you mean but I think they got the ending right - the episode was about Rodney and his relationships with others and it was right to end on that. The implication with what Rodney said to Jennie is that the reprecussions were dealt with off screen. I also thought the seriousness of it showed well in Rodney's reaction and that rather ominous 'ZPM depleted' message that was seen before the power went off.

It'll be interesting to see how it is dealt with in future episodes - it's bound to be of concern to them but they can't run around going 'we're all doomed! Doomed I tell you!' By the look of the synopses, the issue of power (or lack of it in this case) is going to be the basis for at least one of the future episodes.

Klenotka
September 10th, 2006, 08:18 AM
There were so many things I loved about this episode. You told everything.

I liked the friendship in this episode. Teyla and Ronon weren´t here much but they showed their relationship to Rodney very well.
I loved Jeannie and Rodney, their chemistry was so natural bc Kate and David are siblings.

And, the important point for me, Sam. I even don´t like Carter but she was great here. I´d be happy to see her relationship with Rodney more often. Not in that stupid way like in Peagsus Project, but like here.

And to the thing that Jeannie told to Rodney´s team about the childhood. She told it to them:
1. She knew they are his friends, I didn´t see her running around the city and telling that to all people in a city.
2. He hurt her in a past. I would do the same, bc he left her. She didn´t agree with him so he left. He made a big mistake and this was cruel. Yes, kids, life is cruel. I totally agree with Linzi in this:

Just about everybody I know does that, or has had it done to them at some time. It's called having a joke and laugh! Sense of humours are so important in life! However, Jeanie wanted to make her brother suffer a little. He cut her off because she chose to have a family and put them first. He tried to control her life, and when she was having none of it - he cut her off. That is not the action of a caring, sensitive brother, is it? So when some here are feeling so sorry for poor Rodney, maybe they should look at his actions? What goes around comes around. Besides, it was obvious to me, that of course his team likes him and cares about him, but Rodney a poor little senstive soul who people are always mean to? I think not. He's a big boy, who can give as good as he gets, and I'm sure he's hurt at times, but he sure hurts back too. That's what I like about him, He says what he thinks and doesn't really care too much what others think of him.

And trust me, sometimes is very good thing to do something like this to force somebody to make something. I have similar relationship with my brother. I have to kick him sometimes when I want him to see something obvious.

And to the lack of Carson. Well, the argument that he is the main character now isn´t right. Look at Weir, at least in S2. She is main character so she is just standing somewhere with computer in here hands with nothing else to do. But she had to be there bc she is main character.

And ZPM? Good. Great. Just like S1. First destroyed piece of technology for which I am not really sorry bc it means lots of changes. Lesser crossovers, more SGA.

shake_it_off_sparky
September 10th, 2006, 08:34 AM
Meredith...(strokes none existent beard evilly):tomato:
That's just cruel the poor kid, it can't even PASS OFF as a guys name!
His parents never gave him a fighting chance.
I'd be lying if I said I wasn't PIMPing when I heard them say that.:mckay09:
Ronon was funny in this ep., he's more of a human alien than Teal'c, like Jonas.

Cory Holmes
September 10th, 2006, 08:38 AM
That's just cruel the poor kid, it can't even PASS OFF as a guys name!

Technically speaking, "Meredeth" is both masculine and feminine. "Merideth" is feminine only. That being said, I can easily see why he'd prefer to go by "Rodney".

doylefan22
September 10th, 2006, 08:40 AM
And, the important point for me, Sam. I even don´t like Carter but she was great here. I´d be happy to see her relationship with Rodney more often. Not in that stupid way like in Peagsus Project, but like here.

Yeah, as fun as Pegasus Project was, I thought we got the cardboard cut out McKay there. Interesting to note that it was written by Brad Wright who hasn't written an episode of Atlantis since 38 Minutes. Me thinks he's a little rusty with his McKay.

(Also noted that Peter DeLuise hasn't written anything since The Defiant One which is a pity because I thought that was a great episode.)

Adrius
September 10th, 2006, 08:47 AM
I remember being very surprised they were in Atlantis... and then realizing I shouldn't be surprised at all. :rolleyes: Initially, though, I figured they were in a distant outpost, out of harm's way.

I forgot about it in the excitement of the ep, but that was a phenomenally stupid thing for them to do. As usual. *sigh*
Theoretically, it wasn't dangerous at all, because any damage would happen in another universe. Ultimately the only danger came from the fact that the other universe was inhabited and was gonna "shoot back" so to speak. The chances of the other universe being populated was slim to none, they just got unlucky. Besides, they mentioned that Atlantis was the only place with a containment chamber with the proper environment and equipment. So, not a lot of choice. Ultimately, I don't think it was dumb at all. Now if they tried to start up a new Project Arcturis in Atlantis (the kind without the universe bridge), THEN I would think that was stupid.

sueKay
September 10th, 2006, 09:59 AM
A funny thing I noticed...

AU Jeannie's boys were called Bradley and Robert...

I'm thinking...Brad Wright and Rob Copper...lol!

SaberBlade
September 10th, 2006, 10:11 AM
This episode was a great McKay episode.

I love these character focused episodes, and season 3 has not been a let down because of the, Just like Sateda helped evolve and develop Ronin, how The Real World helped develop Weir and even how Common Ground helped develop the Wraith and Shepherd, this episode did a great job in showing another side of Meredith, not just on his reaction to his sister, but how we got to see a different side to his personality which could come out if he wasn't so full of himself.

Having his sister play his sister was a great touch, as it allowed that family bond to be portraited on screen without having to act like it was there. This was his real sister so he didn't need to pretend anything.
--

I also enjoyed how the ZPM was depleted as it now returns the show to a more early state when they had to be concerned about defence. Hopefully they'll not need to resort to the cloak all the time as locating ZPM's can now add a new purpose to off world travel.

--

One thing I did think was stupid that Rod said his earth had it's own ZPM, so I am surprised no on actually bothered to ask him where they got 2 ZPMs from. It doesn't mean our AU will have the same ZPMs in the same location, but it would have been something worth asking, as well as any other types of technology that they may have developed since they have another resident genius on Atlantis.

ShadowMaat
September 10th, 2006, 10:22 AM
Theoretically, it wasn't dangerous at all, because any damage would happen in another universe.
Theoretically? And you'd be willing to risk the safety of everyone in Atlantis on that? Given what the experiment has done in the past and what Rodney's track record with such things is? ;)

*shrug* If it has to be done, it has to be done, but I'd still be wary of it, myself.

And it isn't that I don't trust Rodney as much as it's that I trust Murphy even more. :P

Linzi
September 10th, 2006, 10:58 AM
(Also noted that Peter DeLuise hasn't written anything since The Defiant One which is a pity because I thought that was a great episode.)
I agree 100%! TDO remains one of my favourite Atlantis episodes.

Linzi
September 10th, 2006, 11:00 AM
A funny thing I noticed...

AU Jeannie's boys were called Bradley and Robert...

I'm thinking...Brad Wright and Rob Copper...lol!
I didn't notice that at the time, but, yes, what a coincidence! Or maybe a little nod to TPTB, lol!

Filipino
September 10th, 2006, 12:13 PM
I'm embarassed to say but I see Rodney's personality in me.

NotAscended
September 10th, 2006, 01:46 PM
I liked all of it apart from the ending, everyone was like 'oh we lost the ZMP? , oh well' - I thought there would of been a bigger reaction, I mean they lost the ZPM ffs!

I took it more that they were in initial shock that they had depleted the ZPM, and it really hadn't sunk in yet just how bad it could be. There have to be repercussions, and I hope we'll see some major plotlines that come out of it in the next few episodes.

raduzhok
September 10th, 2006, 02:45 PM
Wow! Fantastic episode. The last few moments of the episode set my heart aflutter - the team interaction that's now so established in SG-1, the chemistry that made us all fall in love with the franchise, is now truly beginning to be reflected in full swing on Atlantis.


I agree completely. It's rare that we've seen the group sitting in a casual situation, enjoying a comraderie that evolves from working so closely with one another in the face of danger. It's the little touches like that which bring it home for me.

For different reasons, I love each character. This was SO Rodney. It again makes me realize why David Hewlett was given the chance to develop such an engaging character.

raduzhok
September 10th, 2006, 03:00 PM
I really liked McKay's/David's sister too. She's a great actress and her portrayel of the character was spot on. I almost wish she were a regular cast member. Though story-wise it probably couldn't work out seeing as how she has a family and all.

If there was anything I thought odd about the episode, it was the fact that they brought in an outside character and not only introduced her to some of the most 'secret' onworld information, but took her offworld and then put her back into mainstream society? I never have figured out what SGC did with all the offworld populations that were evacuated to Earth and we never hear about them again.

Still I thought that she would make a good addition to the cast on a semi-permenant basis if they couldn't bring her on more frequently.

AtlantisRising
September 10th, 2006, 03:22 PM
I'll quite happily show people that photo of my brother looking like a budda statue as a baby

My sister used to be called the family boxer because in her first picture ever she has her fists ready to hit someone and a scowl on her face! lol. Its an aswesome pic.
*coughs*

And yeah. I loved this episode so much! I was really impressed with the writing of all the characters that were present.

I honestly dont know where to begin with this. It was an amazing episode. Its currently my #1.
And my favorite moment was when Carter found out Rodneys real first name. I couldnt stop laughing.

Easter Lily
September 10th, 2006, 03:36 PM
I'll quite happily show people that photo of my brother looking like a budda statue as a baby or that time when I shoved his face into a piece of cake that he was leaning close to to smell. And he is more than capable of getting his own back! We're siblings, taking the p*ss out of one another is part of our job decription. ;)
Yeah... we've got pictures of my brother as a three year old dressed as a girl with pony tails... *evil laughter*

The Meredith thing suddenly reminded me of Indiana Jones... "Don't call me Junior" "Indiana was the name of the dog?!"

:D

doylefan22
September 10th, 2006, 04:06 PM
Yeah... we've got pictures of my brother as a three year old dressed as a girl with pony tails... *evil laughter*

The Meredith thing suddenly reminded me of Indiana Jones... "Don't call me Junior" "Indiana was the name of the dog?!"

:D

Lol! It's Sallah's great laugh that always gets me there. :D

watcher652
September 10th, 2006, 06:05 PM
I couldn’t get into GateWorld for some reason, so a very late running commentary here. Wow, pages and pages of comments. Will anybody even read mine?

Jeannie is just like Rodney, losing herself in physics. Kate is left handed! I wonder if David has left handed tendencies, he “talks” with his left hand predominately.

Why is Jeannie a brilliant physicist? Did she do it to emulate her big brother? Is Dad a physicist, too? Love to have that bit of back story revealed. So Kate has to come back, right?

Wait. What that in the credits? Brendan Gall! He got cast has Jeannie’s husband! Funny to see his name now since it used as the name of one of the scientists in The Defiant One.

Nice to see Sam again. She actually seems to tolerate Rodney now. That was rather refreshing to see. While Rodney still had his condescending remarks (he called her “blue eyes”!), she didn’t snipe back at him so hard. Did she catch Rodney looking at her “assets” when he came down the Gate ramp?

Sam does that hand slapping, finger snapping thing that Rodney does, too. That was weird to see her do that. I'm not a great SG1 fan, has she done that before?

Rodney and Madison. So cute.

Oh, the awkward tension of brother and sister. And what’s this comment about Dad?

Meredith? So Rodney's real name is Meredith Rodney Ingram McKay? Or did he change his name and decided to put in his mother's maiden name so he'd still have a middle name? Rodney must have legally changed it as soon as he could, because his diplomas all say “Rodney” and it must not be on his SGC dossier or Sam would have known.

Ah, confirmation that the Doranda system was uninhabited. Nice “oops, we better make that clear someday” moment.

That cute Canadian accent? Has Sam thought that before about Rodney?

“She’s married and she’s my sister.” Ha! No Kirking my sister! Really, Sheppard was only saying hello! Seems like John got the hint and tried to stay out of Rodney’s way throughout the episode and was only there when Rodney sought him out.

Yes, Radek knows Rodney so well! “He likes to push the button.”

Rodney wanted to be called Rod but no one would call him that? Aw!

I know people think it’s funny, and it’s so easy to do, but “pick on the geek” scenes still make me cringe. Realistic, but too close to home, I guess. Why was Jeannie telling these people who she just met all these humiliating things about her brother? Yes, I know that would be the first question out of John’s mouth. “Tell us all the dirt, Jeannie!” Was that her little revenge for Rodney not staying in touch with her? Part of the competitive McKay sibling rivalry? A little telling about Jeannie’s personality, there. That was rather “high school “ of her. Rodney’s not the only McKay who’s sometimes petty. And maybe that’s the point. The two of them haven’t yet moved on to a more adult relationship. It’s one thing to tell these childhood incidents with Rodney present to defend himself, or to laugh along with the group. It’s another to have them being told behind his back. Could she see so soon what these people mean to Rodney and they wouldn’t use these stories to demean him?

As someone who was picked on for being different as a child, I do understand and can sympathize with Rodney. Interesting that the (male) writers continue to write these scenes since I bet a lot of their audience are the same geeks that were made fun of as children. While I’m proud to say I’m a geek now, as a child I wanted to fit in but didn’t have a clue on how to do it. Poor Rodney. No wonder he isn’t a people person and doesn’t like children. No wonder it’s always all about him. Who else is thinking about him?

Would you like the people who’ve tormented you throughout your life? Ronon is no better than Sheppard in picking on Rodney. I was somewhat surprised at Teyla laughing. She doesn’t seem to be the type who would take pleasure in someone’s past misery, but she probably hangs out too much with John and Ronon and has learned her teasing behavior from them, especially John, since Ronon is kind of quiet. When there’s a family get together, do relatives do this in real life?

That said, just because it <i>does</i> makes me cringe, I think it was a great scene showing us another bit of what makes Rodney who he is. Definitely these things shaped Rodney into the person we see today. Instead of becoming a quiet (genius) researcher hiding out in some lab, he made sure he was going to be the up front indispensable person, with all the responsibilities that brings. He really doesn’t understand how Jeannie could give that all up to be “just” a wife and mother. Even if you don’t like Rodney, you still need him. But the only thing that Rodney is really comfortable with is his brain. The poor man still is hungry for approval. He doesn’t realize that he does what most won’t do, be on the front lines. That’s a kind of bravery that he doesn’t seem to understand he has (or he would be bragging about that, too).

Interesting that Rodney didn’t come back with, “Well, Jeannie, did you tell them about the time you did…” He was too hurt and affronted. You know there would have been some kind of come back if Sheppard had revealed something told in confidence. Oh well, you can only fit so much in an episode.

I wonder if David knows how to golf in real life, his swing looked pretty good. Or did Joe have to give him pointers?

Was that golf shot hitting the water a new view of the city?

Looks like McKay and Sheppard have transferred personalities in Rod’s universe. It seemed to really bother Sheppard that he’s an annoying geek there. That’s something that won’t be revealed to Rodney!

Loved the not-conversation between Rodney and John in John's room. Rodney's in John's room! And the epiphany Rodney has just by bouncing off his thoughts to John.

Why is John cleaning his golf club? He didn't get any dirt on them using that bit of Astroturf. Is he taking his clubs over to the mainland?

Nice to see John’s room again. He’s made it a personal space. I thought it was interesting that when we saw Rodney’s room in Duet, how impersonal it seemed. Only his awards and diplomas on the wall gave it any indication it was Rodney’s room. And instead of having any pictures of his family on his side table, he had a picture of a cat, and not of the cat we saw him give up in Rising.

Huh, this is too long for one post. Breaking off here.

watcher652
September 10th, 2006, 06:21 PM
More on the episode. Geez, I babble worse than McKay!

Rodney is unaware that people might hate him. That's really clueless about people, Rodney. Again, poor Rodney. Jealous of himself. As a child, Rod must have been praised for his genius instead of knocked down for it, as Rodney seems to have been.

Did Jeannie learn anything from her encounter with a Rodney that might have been?

Was Rodney’s “Oh, boy!” a shout out to Quantum Leap?

This episode made me realize how little we see Rodney actually smile instead of the smirk he usually has. Well, no one really smiles much, this is a drama with life threatening aliens around every corner. But it was so nice to see Rod smiling, with his slightly mussed hair.

This wasn’t just a character piece. Atlantis has lost he ZPM. No more quick trips back to the SGC. No evacuation back to Earth. No shield or cloak for the city. I hope that gate bridge idea works. But then you need people to defend each gate.

Is this expedition cursed? They lose Ancient ships, Wraith hive ships, now the ZPM. And of all the universes to pick, we get an inhabited AU one? Even Sam said that it was astronomical that they would do that. Really, Sam should know better after we saw the SG1 multi-universe episode. Why did they assume they we could find a universe that wasn’t inhabited? We should have figured out how to test for that before we started the power generation project.

At least we still must have some of those extra drones from The Tower.

Did we get no power at all from the experiment? We did generate those weird particles. Where were we storing that energy, in a depleted ZPM?

Radek says Zee-PM instead of Zed. Only Rodney seems to be stubborn about saying Zed, then. So Rodney. He compromised on GateShip, he’s not changing Zed.

John showing Jeannie Rodney’s Letter From Pegasus video. Aw! Why didn’t she get that a year and a half ago? Was because it was on the end of the data burst and didn’t make it through? Was it because they actually didn’t die, so TPTB didn’t send them out to worry the families? Is the SGC sitting on these last notes to the family? We never saw Sam’s reaction to being called “hot” by Rodney, so either Ford did edit that out, or none of Rodney’s letter got through. Why does John have a copy of that? I suppose a copy would be on the Atlantis computers somewhere but weren’t the videos supposed to be confidential?

I can’t believe that both the US and Canadian governments couldn’t find Jeannie. She was on the fast track and was on her way to becoming one of the most brilliant scientists around. You just don’t lose track of people like that.

It takes one McKay to destroy a solar system. It takes two McKays (and a little help from Carter) to almost destroy a universe

The goodbye scene! No one can do teary eyed as well as David. I flashed to David’s Grant Jansky character in the series “Traders” when he opened his arms to Jeannie for a hug.

So cute that Rodney tried to find a gift for Madison. Even if it was to steal something off of Elizabeth’s desk. Did he get it when he went in and got the “no, you’re not fired” speech?

Was I mistaken, or did Rodney's hair look slightly mussed in that last scene in the mess hall? Rodney’s posture is still the same, sitting upright with his feet heels up and on the balls of his feet, ready to jump up in a second.

The laughter in the mess hall was delightful. In the last one, I love how the team rallies together to express their dissatisfaction with Rod, then the knowing looks the team gives each other as Rodney turns to fetch a chair. Rodney may be a pain the butt sometimes, but he’s THEIR Rodney.

It would have been nice if they changed seating positions in the mess hall scene. It made it look like they filmed them all at once to put them in as drop ins. Yes, I know that’s what they do in real life, but kind of brought me out of the story. Maybe what they were going for is that people usually have their “usual” seats and end up that way each time. But because everyone wears the same clothes all the time in Atlantis, that kind of took away from that aspect.

Teasing Teyla about her interest in a newly arrived Marine! And Teyla actually kicked John! Guess they really are “family”. Four people, alone in their own way, together as a team.

Kate was simply wonderful. She must make future appearances. So much like her brother in the way she moves. I think there must be “Hewlett hands,” by the way they both gesture with them and just the way they physically look.

No Beckett? Not even a little drop in to confirm that yes, genetically that’s Rodney in the isolation room.

I noticed that Rodney’s Canadian patch was rather dirty. That’s a bit of realism that I appreciate.

Wow, the special effect of having 2 Rodneys was great. The eye line was perfect. And when Rod shook hands with Rodney? How do they do that? It looked so real and natural.

Kudos to David Hewlett and his portrayal of Rodney and Rod. There was never any question which McKay was on screen. This episode showed how much “acting” David does to become Rodney. It was especially pointed out in the scene with the two of them talking to each other in facing chairs. Rod’s posture was like the posture we’ve come to associate with a casual Sheppard: leaning back, one arm draped across the back of the chair, one leg crossed over the other’s thigh. Rodney sits upright in his chair on the edge of his seat, hands on his thighs and feet on the floor, ready to jump up in a second, all coiled nervous energy. Even his voice is different. Rod’s voice was lower pitched, much like David’s own voice. Rodney’s voice is higher pitched, full of irritation and indignation. Great job!

I so love this episode. You know, McKay is the only person to have his name in episode titles, with his two this season. Even my “Atlantis has had some bad episodes this season, I don’t really like McKay” friend enjoyed it.

Now, where’s that Teyla episode?!

Irish Eyes
September 10th, 2006, 09:44 PM
I wasn't sure how I would like this episode because Rodney sometimes bugs me. He has grown on me this season, however, and this episode was great for him. I think he broke my heart a little and I just wanted to hug him.

Kate Hewlett as Jeannie couldn't have been any better. Since we don't seem to have Lorne any more, can we have her instead?

I loved Madison hugging Rodney. Wouldn't it be fun to see Uncle Rodney doting on her?

The Letters from Pegasus video was a great moment. It's so nice when a show uses it's history and in a way that makes sense.

Laughed at the Kirk comment and it brought up this question: Has John kirked at all this season? LOL

No worries about losing the ZPM. When they finally SHOW the team exploring Atlantis, they will find the storeroom with the spare ZPMs. I'm sure Carson is there guarding them.;)

VashtiB
September 11th, 2006, 01:43 AM
Yeah good ep. lots of good humour. good to see ronin laughing.

Lokii
September 11th, 2006, 04:04 AM
I thought this was an OK episode. The whole "Rod part of the episode was too much. I would have rather seen more interaction between Rodney and his sister, but with our Rod, Rodney would not have had the insight to mend the fences with his sister.

I also did not like the depletion of the ZPM. Did they need another challenge? Or was thid to prove that another McKay while a genius, can cause very bad things to happen?

sueKay
September 11th, 2006, 04:13 AM
Another tidbit

Actor Brendan Gall (Caleb Miller) is a good friend of Martin Gero's. Brendan Gall from 'The Defiant One' was named after him.

GateLadyM
September 11th, 2006, 10:25 AM
“She’s married and she’s my sister.” Ha! No Kirking my sister! Really, Sheppard was only saying hello!
The problem is that Sheppard hits on every woman he sees, and Rodney knows that. He was just giving warning. Frankly I'm tired of "flirt" John and hope we've seen the last of him. It is actually a turn-off to me.


I was somewhat surprised at Teyla laughing. She doesn’t seem to be the type who would take pleasure in someone’s past misery, but she probably hangs out too much with John and Ronon and has learned her teasing behavior from them, especially John, since Ronon is kind of quiet. When there’s a family get together, do relatives do this in real life?
I too was surprised that Teyla wasn't getting after them for picking on a friend. It went beyond "friendly poking" to me. Those comments were uncalled for. My friends and family do a bit of teasing, as most do, but nothing that vicious.

I also felt it would have been nice for Carson to show Jeannie the video Rodney made. He is more of the heart and moral compass of the show, and it would have given him a scene or two. He isn't being utilized enough.

But I liked the episode simply for all the Rodney/Jeannie interaction and hope we get to see Kate Hewlett again. She was marvelous!

bluealien
September 11th, 2006, 11:08 AM
The problem is that Sheppard hits on every woman he sees, and Rodney knows that. He was just giving warning. Frankly I'm tired of "flirt" John and hope we've seen the last of him. It is actually a turn-off to me.

I don't see Sheppard hitting on every girl he sees.!! When was the last time we saw him flirt with anyone?. He just said hello - so introducing yourself is now considered flirting. Rodney was just doing the overly protective big brother thing.


I too was surprised that Teyla wasn't getting after them for picking on a friend. It went beyond "friendly poking" to me. Those comments were uncalled for. My friends and family do a bit of teasing, as most do, but nothing that vicious.

I saw nothing vicious about the teasing and I thought it pretty normal stuff that friends and family do. I have had similar teasing from my friends and family. Rodney didn't seem too effected by it IMO saw it as just friendly teasing.



also felt it would have been nice for Carson to show Jeannie the video Rodney made. He is more of the heart and moral compass of the show, and it would have given him a scene or two. He isn't being utilized enough.[

I wouldn't really call Carson the heart and moral compass of Atlantis considering he came up with the virus to experiment on the Wraith. I can't really call any of the characters the heart and moral compass - maybe Teyla but not really any of the others. I thought that it was a nice touch having John show Jennie the video as it shows just how much Rodney does mean to him, particulary after their conversation in Johns room, where Rodney thought that Jeannie preferred Rod to him.

Good episode and I liked all the team interaction, and Rodney and Jeannie were wonderful.

FallenAngelII
September 11th, 2006, 11:10 AM
I loved this episode. We should've seen more alt!McKay interaction though. We should've found out more about his universe, for one thing.

Lieutenant Reichwein
September 11th, 2006, 01:45 PM
Way to completely deplete the ZPM, Rodney...

I say we try the experiment again and hopefully those astronimcal odds are in our favor next time around. Shouldn't be more than a few episodes until we conveniently find a replacement ZPM.

sgateatlantis
September 11th, 2006, 08:18 PM
do you think they will ever get 2 zedpms at one time

Gate gal
September 11th, 2006, 09:30 PM
This was an excellent episode. I usually find episodes that center on one character to be a bit dull, but Rodney episodes are always entertaining. I love that David's real life sister was available to play Jeannie. The Hewlettisms were rampant and fabulous. I really liked the cool Rodney also. I wouldn't mind seeing him again in the future. I gave this episode a perfect 10, and I rarely do that.

FallenAngelII
September 11th, 2006, 09:37 PM
The problem is that Sheppard hits on every woman he sees, and Rodney knows that. He was just giving warning. Frankly I'm tired of "flirt" John and hope we've seen the last of him. It is actually a turn-off to me.


I too was surprised that Teyla wasn't getting after them for picking on a friend. It went beyond "friendly poking" to me. Those comments were uncalled for. My friends and family do a bit of teasing, as most do, but nothing that vicious.

I also felt it would have been nice for Carson to show Jeannie the video Rodney made. He is more of the heart and moral compass of the show, and it would have given him a scene or two. He isn't being utilized enough.

But I liked the episode simply for all the Rodney/Jeannie interaction and hope we get to see Kate Hewlett again. She was marvelous!

Carson would have no place having those tapes.

Linzi
September 11th, 2006, 10:33 PM
The problem is that Sheppard hits on every woman he sees, and Rodney knows that. He was just giving warning. Frankly I'm tired of "flirt" John and hope we've seen the last of him. It is actually a turn-off to me.

IN YOUR OPINION. Sheppard was certainly not hitting on Jeannie in MY opinion. Flirting may be a turn off for some people, but not everybody holds that view. Not everybody classes a man being friendly or charming as being a flirt anyway. It's all down to the individual's perspective. Of course I'm not someone who sees Sheppard as anything other than a single guy, who has NO ties to any woman on Atlantis....so he's free to flirt with whom so ever he chooses. As long as he gets general character development, which he has in Season 3, IMO. Not that he's done any flirting this season so far...with ANYBODY, that goes for regular female characters he's interacted with as well - in my opinion.




I also felt it would have been nice for Carson to show Jeannie the video Rodney made. He is more of the heart and moral compass of the show, and it would have given him a scene or two.


Why would Carson have had access to Rodney's private message? Sheppard had to look at it as Military commander on Atlantis, but Carson? He'd never have seen it, or had any reason to. So I don't think that would work here. Carson the moral compass of the show? Hmmmm, not so sure about that, especially when considering the whole retro-virus arc. I think the whole morality of Carson, Weir and even Sheppard and McKay has somewhat been muddied by stories such as Michael and Misbegotten. And I actually quite like that.

Descent
September 11th, 2006, 10:56 PM
The problem is that Sheppard hits on every woman he sees, and Rodney knows that. He was just giving warning. Frankly I'm tired of "flirt" John and hope we've seen the last of him. It is actually a turn-off to me.

Rodney was obviously overreacting due to what happened between John and Chaya and John and that one girl from "The Tower" (Ugh.). And turn-off? Eh..... :sheppard33:

travis
September 12th, 2006, 12:05 AM
I so loved this ep. Good pace and story inconjunction to previous eps. I so love McKay's sister she is a damn fine actress. You can really see the sibling chemistry between these two and that you can tell they reall enjoyed play part.

The writters so better bring her back. This is the one guest actress that I truly and honestly say please please bring her back.

All the scene with the gang sitting at the table sharing story's of McKay was fantastic as that's what we all do with our mates, poking/makig fun off them on there expense.

The Meredith name is priceless. Now the team has leverage on him some thing to put him back in his place when he get to cocky and obnoxious.:)

Tok'Ra Hostess
September 12th, 2006, 07:12 AM
I have truly enjoyed a great many eps from SG-1 and Atlantis over the years, but M&MM is, I believe, the first ep I've rated a 10. It was just lovely. Much Kudos to all involved.

I especially loved Sam's teasing Meredith about his name, and the fact that 'Rod' had Shep's hairstyle.

But really, I just loved the whole thing. :D

Laughing Magpie
September 12th, 2006, 08:32 AM
I may have missed this somewhere in the thread already, but did anyone else notice how similar "Rod" was to the Ace Rimmer character from RED DWARF? A little less over the top on the acting and costuming, and I still greatly enjoyed this version of the story, but I kept expecting the rest of the Red Dwarf crew to make cameos.

Raziel
September 12th, 2006, 08:32 AM
Love that ep!.....
I don't wat to repeat everything you said, but I will add this:

The final scene with all the team,talking, teasing, like the family they are was awesome.... lovely !....
Carson was the only thing that i missed in the ep....
:beckett:


But great, write more of this!

Linzi
September 12th, 2006, 11:31 AM
I may have missed this somewhere in the thread already, but did anyone else notice how similar "Rod" was to the Ace Rimmer character from RED DWARF? A little less over the top on the acting and costuming, and I still greatly enjoyed this version of the story, but I kept expecting the rest of the Red Dwarf crew to make cameos.
Oh yes! My family and I noticed! We kept humming the theme tune....

Willow'sCat
September 12th, 2006, 03:00 PM
I loved this episode. We should've seen more alt!McKay interaction though. We should've found out more about his universe, for one thing.Been thinking that myself, or rather wondering *other then for basic plot reasons* why they even went with AU Rod. We heard little about his U'verse also I would have loved to see Ford be in his verse rather then Ronon, don't know why they had to go with Ronon being in both. :S

I guess for me I thought this could have easily have been a two parter, so fleshing this AU Rodney out would have been great, but no rather just use it as a gimmick. I actually think *other then for basic plots reasons* that Carson could have been the one to set Meredith *I love his name* on the right path to thinking about his place in Atlantis. Although I guess being Meredith *squee* he probably did need *himself* to say those things to/about him for him to believe them. Why would he trust anything anyone else around him says? :cool:

I liked AU Rod by the way; I didn't find him creepy at all, I thought he was charming. *and sexy!* :p Although I would have loved to see geek!Sheppard I bet he wears cardigans! :D

ddc
September 12th, 2006, 04:00 PM
Not sure if this has been mentioned, but I really liked the sense of awe that Jeannie showed at being in space, meeting an alien, the whole adventure. Not something we've seen much of on either Stargate - John in Rising was reacting to the implications of his possessing the Ancient gene more then the ovearall big secret, and the President in Inauguration and Weir in Lost City had to get up to speed and act on the threat so didn't have much time for the "wow" aspect of what they'd just found out.

Willow'sCat
September 12th, 2006, 06:45 PM
Not sure if this has been mentioned, but I really liked the sense of awe that Jeannie showed at being in space, meeting an alien, the whole adventure. Not something we've seen much of on either Stargate I loved the part where McKay turns Jeannie towards the window to look at Earth just sitting there. And you're right we really never get a lot of those moments, although in SG-1s TPP

Spoilers season 10Daniel was a little in awe of Atlantis as he looked out on it. :)

I would have liked a Sheppard style freak out over the Asgard but, well, been there done that.

Dark Falcon
September 13th, 2006, 11:50 AM
This episode greatly showed a different side of McKay. I wonder
how his character developed? Maybe McKay will smile more
often? :mckay:

The last scene between the Atlantis team was good.

The scene in Mrs. Miller's house made me think I was watching
Desperate Housewives. I don't know why...
Thankfully, we are saved by the Daedalus's beaming technology. :D

agent_omf
September 13th, 2006, 09:31 PM
i like that stargate atlantis is starting to pick up on the whole wizard of az thing that sg1 started!

Pitry
September 14th, 2006, 02:44 AM
While I generally was amused by this episode, I have to say it feels like an unformed first draft where the plot isn't really figured out yet that somehow someone has mistaken it for the actual finished script.

Why can't Atlantis do both plot and characters? Either there's a plot and then no one ever notices the characters, or there's a character episode that has no plot whatsoever.
And TBH, despite being a huge McKay fan, a huge Martin Gero's episodes fan, and a bigger fan of the combination (okay, other than Duet) - I didn't even like McKay that much in this one. I'm enjoying snarkastic McKay, arrogant McKay, condescending McKay. It makes him a very flawed human, and thus a great character - not to mention the extremely amusign one-liners. ;) - I don't mind at all Rodney having regrets, it makes him even more human - only, when that happens, can they please not do it in a teenaged schoolboy way? McKay realising how everyone likes Rod better and what a better brother he is etc etc etc just turned him into an angsty schoolboy. I'd rather my McKay (yup! He's mine! All mine, I said! *manic laughter) to be less of a boy in his angsty moments, thankyouverymuch.

I actually really enjoyed the beginning. I thought the introduction to Jeannie was lovely, I really enjoyed the Carter scene (and the "cute Canadian way" bit, bwaha) - and they actually got Jeannie awed by everything around her quite well - not to mention Kate Hewlett was terrific the entire episode, even the bad parts - but the moment they stepped into Atlantis, it became hte most simplistic, boring, obvious plot ever - or rather, a poor substitute for plot, because you can't really expect me to believe the "he's fom a parallel universe and is so much cooler than me" bit is an actual plot, no. Unless it has a cool spin to it - or is made in order to do something for the character, a-la Red Dwarf (where I loved it) - it's pointless, boring, and isn't a plot! You can't base an episode on it!
Shoudln't they have been afraid of anthropic cascade failure, anyways?...
*nitpick*

Not much to say other than that. I do hope we get to see Jeannie again, although I'd love it to be in a better episode!

Aussie_Fan
September 15th, 2006, 03:18 AM
I love this episode! It would have to be my fav in season 3 so far. Had me laughing the whole way through!

The one thing that bugged me was at the end when they drained the ZPM. That really annoyed me. If they had of drained it to say 5% and then the wraith or the asurans appeared and started attacking them.. That would have been better. Then it would have been like "oh no! The ZPM will only last another 5mins, what do we do??!"

sueKay
September 15th, 2006, 03:45 AM
I think we might see a big change in McKay from this episode onwards...

Rod said to him "They're my team...my place is with them."

I think through this all, Rodney's realised how lonely he actually is, and at the end of the episode, it seems he's making an effort to just sit down and talk rather than running off to his lab to do more work...I think this has made him realise there's more to life than his work