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GateWorld
April 27th, 2004, 10:24 PM
<DIV ALIGN="center"><TABLE WIDTH="450" BORDER="0" CELLSPACING="0" CELLPADDING="7"><TR><TD><DIV ALIGN="left"><FONT FACE="Verdana, Arial, san-serif" SIZE="2" COLOR="#000000"><A HREF="http://www.gateworld.net/sg1/s10/1008.shtml"><IMG SRC="http://www.gateworld.net/sg1/graphics/1008.jpg" WIDTH="160" HEIGHT="120" ALIGN="right" HSPACE="10" VSPACE="2" BORDER="0" STYLE="border: 1px black solid" ALT="Visit the Episode Guide"></A><FONT SIZE="1" COLOR="#888888">SG-1 SEASON TEN</FONT>
<FONT SIZE="4"><A HREF="http://www.gateworld.net/sg1/s10/1008.shtml" STYLE="text-decoration: none">MEMENTO MORI</A></FONT>
<FONT SIZE="1">EPISODE NUMBER - 1008</FONT>
<IMG SRC="/images/clear.gif" WIDTH="1" HEIGHT="10" ALT="">
Striken with amnesia and on the run, Vala takes a job as a waitress as she tries to piece together who she is and what happened to her.

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Descent
September 8th, 2006, 07:05 PM
Some generally good moments in a generally bad episode. Not good folks. I'm really hoping S10 gets out of this habit of "good-bad-good-bad".

5/10 from me.

Kanten
September 8th, 2006, 07:05 PM
I actually enjoyed this episode, and I normally hate the Earth-based ones. Good action, team moments, some good ship moments. Oh yeah, Vala is officially SG-1 now, yay!

coolove
September 8th, 2006, 07:07 PM
I really enjoyed this episode. I especially love the Cam/Vala scenes in the motel room. Priceless.

TattertotLove
September 8th, 2006, 07:08 PM
I loved this episode!!! I am proud to say that this was my favorite episode for season 10 IMO. Others may not agree but I really thought that.:)

NowIWillDestroyAbydos
September 8th, 2006, 07:08 PM
I just want to say one thing about the episode, most of it sucked, the only good parts were Cam in the Hotel Room and the and finale scene in Daniel's Office. Worst episode this season.

I got to say the Mallozzi/Mullie writing team has been writing bad episodes lately, I think they're in a slump.

Bragi
September 8th, 2006, 07:08 PM
I liked it. Even though this is the last season, it doesn't mean that Vala shouldn't be allowed a developmental episode.

Descent
September 8th, 2006, 07:08 PM
Vala finally remembering everything and hugging Daniel was a really sweet moment along with the Cam/Vala stuff, but other than that...this episode just didn't work for me.

I'm Just Sayin'
September 8th, 2006, 07:21 PM
I think we have a new contender for the worst episode ever.

Pocus
September 8th, 2006, 07:23 PM
While it was not an action packed episode, I did enjoy this one. I thought that CB did a fantastic job showing her confusion at what was going on when she had to. It showed me a lot about her ingrained survival instincts.

Loved the explosion out of the warehouse and Mitchell's shooting the metal shelf to get the guy.

The episode as a whole seemed a bit "surface". It seemed as if they would touch on something then move along to the next thing. I am glad they did spend some time Mitchell handcuffed to the bed, shirtless *sorry for the fangirlie moment*

Wonder what Teal'c said to get the information they needed?;)

Was that the first Stargate car crash ever?

Lt. Colonel Ryu Gaia
September 8th, 2006, 07:31 PM
This was an episode that I find myself rather polarized on. While it did have quite a few very touching moments, specifically between Vala and Daniel, it lacked a great many things, including a driven, consistent plot, build-up of tension, etc. Although its shining moments were brilliant, the episode fell quite flat for the most part.

OVERALL: *1/2

Skydiver
September 8th, 2006, 07:34 PM
it was the first car crash...however those 3 peopel dying while vala doesn't have a scratch just doesnt' work. especially since she was unrestrained. the car wasn't damaged enough.

cam in bed was funny, the pants teasing was priceless, as was teal'c's interrogation

the rest? bad fanfic brought to life

plenty of screen time for vala's fans and the daniel/vala dynamic...plot wise??? and i would honestly say this no matter who the kidnapee was, it was bad. dull and boring
thus far, i've enjoyed the first 30 minutes of atlantis more than all of MM

nell
September 8th, 2006, 07:37 PM
How did Vala earn a place as an official member of SG-1? What did she do tonight? I don't begrudge her participation in SGC but her rise to SG-1 member is baffling to me. Seems too early.

Skydiver
September 8th, 2006, 07:41 PM
i guess once you get kidnapped

or maybe it was the whole handcuffing to the bed thing

maybe it's hugging daniel????

Oh, and for the factual nitpickers, look close during the cycle chase...and the road sign to Surrey *ahem* they're only 2,000 miles off ;)

Descent
September 8th, 2006, 07:41 PM
thus far, i've enjoyed the first 30 minutes of atlantis more than all of MM

Same here. Its all starting to make sense....

Skydiver
September 8th, 2006, 07:55 PM
the vala fans will love the screen time. claudia does a good job. and the d/v shippers are very acknowledged. sam, teal'c and daniel (not as much daniel) are just there to facilitate the plot, as is cam part of the time

Dani347
September 8th, 2006, 08:01 PM
I also wonder what Vala did to earn a place on SG1.

Maxum
September 8th, 2006, 08:03 PM
For what was basically a "bottle" episode (not too many special effects and not offworld), it wasn't terrible. It's episodes like these that help pay for the bigger, special effects laden episodes that come later (like next week, apparently). It's no big deal, but I knew the minute the episode ended that some would consider it terrible or worse episode ever. Truthfully, once I realized within the first ten minutes that it was a bottle episode, I knew it would be relatively self-contained within a certain environment.

It wasn't a terrible episode, but it was lackluster. I think that's the word I would use for it. I think what I didn't like about it was the lack of drama. It would have been much better, imo, if Vala had been far more traumatized and disoriented. She seemed more inconvenienced than anything, but then again, she had no real reason to be truly traumatized since she didn't remember who she was or what she had been through in her life.

Also, I didn't like the Goul'd in this episode at all. If you're going to show a Goul'd with glowing eyes, then they should have the Goul'd voice. She shouldn't sound like she's from the neighborhood, know what I mean?

I did enjoy the Cam/Vala moments. They were fine. A nice throw out to Farscape fans (of which I'm one). Teal'c was funny in his interrogation scene. Smart choice that we never heard what he actually threatened the trust operative with in that final whisper.

Favorite part of the whole episode: all the Daniel and Vala scenes (sorry folks, still want to see these two get together - Daniel deserves something). Their scenes at least HAD drama, especially when they were in the warehouse, guns pointed at each other. It made sense to me that her breakthrough would come when she was confronted by Daniel. She has an emotional connection to him.

Overall 6/10.

markaudette
September 8th, 2006, 08:03 PM
Parts of this episode were endearing but altogether, it was pretty stale.

Maxum
September 8th, 2006, 08:07 PM
How did Vala earn a place as an official member of SG-1? What did she do tonight? I don't begrudge her participation in SGC but her rise to SG-1 member is baffling to me. Seems too early.

It's not what she did tonight, but what she's done over the course of the past year and a half. Since she IS officially going on gate missions with SG-1, and she is risking her life when she does it, it would make sense to make her a member of the team.

Truthfully, I would have waited until later in the year, but since this is the last year of the series, I'm not going to be too picky as to when she gets her team badge.

By the way, did anyone notice that it wasn't an SG-1 badge? It was just an SGC badge - or did I miss something? I didn't see the "1" on the patch, just the pyramid symbol. Can someone clarify?

ToasterOnFire
September 8th, 2006, 08:08 PM
Meh, it was better than I thought it was going to be, and the action scenes (barring Mitch's OTT wheelie) were well done, but the ep didn't seem to have that much depth. It was Mitch and Vala heavy and extremely light on Sam and Teal'c, with some Daniel thrown in on the side. Adria and the Ori were forgotten this ep as well. Also:

-Sam = damn hot.

-Why exactly did Vala remove Mitch's pants? O_o

-Heh, the deli owner was Donna's dad from That 70s Show. So used to seeing him with a fro. :D

-Stop with the shakey cam already. BSG has already spent two seasons doing this, and I can only tolerate it on one show. STOP.

-I also don't understand how this incident convinced them to let Vala join the team. She got kidnapped, served up some burgers, shot Mitch, and was about to shoot Daniel. Not seeing it.

Descent
September 8th, 2006, 08:12 PM
-I also don't understand how this incident convinced them to let Vala join the team. She got kidnapped, served up some burgers, shot Mitch, and was about to shoot Daniel. Not seeing it.

It came out of nowhere, I agree. *sighs at how Season 10s been turning out*

NowIWillDestroyAbydos
September 8th, 2006, 08:12 PM
I think we have a new contender for the worst episode ever.
Agreed, but nothing can beat Emancipation as worst episode ever. Damn did that episode suck.

O'Neil
September 8th, 2006, 08:13 PM
Tonights episode completely sucked! It was a waste of time. The stargate saga has gone from action packed chaos, into a WB teeny bopper soap opera b-rated show. No wonder it got canceled.

I thought the threat was the Ori?? Ive seen enough about characters. I could less about Vala and whats in her head. All we see now is character episodes with no real action, no discoveries, and no talk of the immediate threat.

Where has the show gone? It doesnt even feel like stargate anymore.

GateMan2000
September 8th, 2006, 08:16 PM
Yawn...sleepy ep.

Skydiver
September 8th, 2006, 08:17 PM
Meh, it was better than I thought it was going to be, and the action scenes (barring Mitch's OTT wheelie) were well done, but the ep didn't seem to have that much depth. It was Mitch and Vala heavy and extremely light on Sam and Teal'c, with some Daniel thrown in on the side. Adria and the Ori were forgotten this ep as well. Also:

-Sam = damn hot.

-Why exactly did Vala remove Mitch's pants? O_o

-Heh, the deli owner was Donna's dad from That 70s Show. So used to seeing him with a fro. :D

-Stop with the shakey cam already. BSG has already spent two seasons doing this, and I can only tolerate it on one show. STOP.

-I also don't understand how this incident convinced them to let Vala join the team. She got kidnapped, served up some burgers, shot Mitch, and was about to shoot Daniel. Not seeing it.
umm, she didn't shoot cam. the bad guy did

what a waste of a cool leather jacket

nell
September 8th, 2006, 08:19 PM
It's not what she did tonight, but what she's done over the course of the past year and a half. Since she IS officially going on gate missions with SG-1, and she is risking her life when she does it, it would make sense to make her a member of the team.

Truthfully, I would have waited until later in the year, but since this is the last year of the series, I'm not going to be too picky as to when she gets her team badge.

By the way, did anyone notice that it wasn't an SG-1 badge? It was just an SGC badge - or did I miss something? I didn't see the "1" on the patch, just the pyramid symbol. Can someone clarify?
They told her she's on SG-1! I understand that TPTB were heading in this direction. But, I think it would be more appropriate after she did a particularly heroic deed! I just think about Jonas performing a selfless act in Descent(season 6) that earned Jack's respect and awarded Jonas a real place on the team!

ilovedanieljackson
September 8th, 2006, 08:19 PM
By the way, did anyone notice that it wasn't an SG-1 badge? It was just an SGC badge - or did I miss something? I didn't see the "1" on the patch, just the pyramid symbol. Can someone clarify?

Actually, she did have a patch with a 1 on it. I had to watch this and Atlantis without sound (long story), so I watched real close.

the fifth man
September 8th, 2006, 08:20 PM
Geez, a lot of hate for this one spreading around so far. I didn't think it was bad. Not the best this season, but not bad at all. Actually, there were quite a few moments in this one I really enjoyed. I thought the team was great together, the bike chase scene was great, and I loved the way we saw how everyone has come to care for Vala.

eirenne
September 8th, 2006, 08:21 PM
Meh, it was better than I thought it was going to be, and the action scenes (barring Mitch's OTT wheelie) were well done, but the ep didn't seem to have that much depth. It was Mitch and Vala heavy and extremely light on Sam and Teal'c, with some Daniel thrown in on the side. Adria and the Ori were forgotten this ep as well. Also:

-Sam = damn hot.

-Why exactly did Vala remove Mitch's pants? O_o

-Heh, the deli owner was Donna's dad from That 70s Show. So used to seeing him with a fro. :D

-Stop with the shakey cam already. BSG has already spent two seasons doing this, and I can only tolerate it on one show. STOP.

-I also don't understand how this incident convinced them to let Vala join the team. She got kidnapped, served up some burgers, shot Mitch, and was about to shoot Daniel. Not seeing it.

I wouldn't say this was Mitchell/Vala heavy I would say this was Vala heavy...and yes I did recognize "Donna's Dad" - it was so funny to see him without that fro...

Daniel's Sister
September 8th, 2006, 08:26 PM
This was a great episode!!!!!!!!

Claudia Black made this episode. :vala:

When the show first started, I was like "Alright Vala! Go kick some bad guy butt!! :valaanime03:

This ep showed one of the enemys that Katesh (sorry if I spelled that wrong), made.

But, I must say, The only parts that I really remember, is the part were Vala orders each kind of martinie;
where she says that she's so happy that Daniel finally takes her out on a date and Daniel tries to explains that its not a date;
where Vala shoved a twinkie in Cam's mouth; where the rest of SG-1 finds Cam on the bed, hand-cuffed, no shirt, and surrounded by sweets; and Sam says that that's the second time that Cam's had his pants down. My whole family found that hilarious!!;
and the part at the end where Vala becomes a permenant member of SG-1, and Daniel again tries to explain to everyone that he wasn't taking Vala out on a date, and even Gen.Landry didn't believe him. Poor Daniel :danielanime08:

All-in-all, GREAT EP!!!!

Oreo
September 8th, 2006, 08:26 PM
Yet another example of why this show needs to end. 20 episodes for these writers is too much.

The episode is trash, the only part I liked was the Daniel / Vala ship. I'm not normally a shipper person and I thought Jack and Sam ship was sometime way to forceful. In this case however the Daniel / Vall ship was nicely done because they have a friendship, but more to a point.

Maxum
September 8th, 2006, 08:28 PM
It came out of nowhere, I agree. *sighs at how Season 10s been turning out*

I think Season Ten has been very good so far. Not every episode is going to be a "10" or even an "8," but from the drama, action, and dialogue I've seen so far from this season, I'm very pleased.

Me, to each his own, I guess. I'm just going to try and sit back and relish every episode until the series ends - and then hope MGM has something up its sleeve for SG-1's future. I don't want another Stargate series with a new cast. We already have Atlantis.

full.infinity
September 8th, 2006, 08:30 PM
Geez, a lot of hate for this one spreading around so far. I didn't think it was bad. Not the best this season, but not bad at all. Actually, there were quite a few moments in this one I really enjoyed. I thought the team was great together, the bike chase scene was great, and I loved the way we saw how everyone has come to care for Vala.
I think it's just the shadow of 200 and Counterstrike(and the fact that McKay and Mrs. Miller was also really good). I thought the episode was okay, but it needed more of the Athena/treasure/Trust stuff.(I also noticed that the actress who played Athena was in the PetMeds commercials. I think that company's with the Trust.)

Maxum
September 8th, 2006, 08:32 PM
They told her she's on SG-1! I understand that TPTB were heading in this direction. But, I think it would be more appropriate after she did a particularly heroic deed! I just think about Jonas performing a selfless act in Descent(season 6) that earned Jack's respect and awarded Jonas a real place on the team!

Well, when she sacrificed herself at the end of last season, that was pretty heroic. It's not a compilation of just one event. I think she got the patch because of her contributions from mid-season last year until now.

Is it somewhat contrived? Sure, but I don't care. I like the character.

the fifth man
September 8th, 2006, 08:33 PM
I think Season Ten has been very good so far. Not every episode is going to be a "10" or even an "8," but from the drama, action, and dialogue I've seen so far from this season, I'm very pleased.

Me, to each his own, I guess. I'm just going to try and sit back and relish every episode until the series ends - and then hope MGM has something up its sleeve for SG-1's future. I don't want another Stargate series with a new cast. We already have Atlantis.

Exactly! Every episode isn't going to be better than the last. Was this one a favorite of mine this season, no. But overall, I did like it.

I'm going to do the same thing - just enjoy every episode we have left this season. As for MGM, I'm sure they have something up their sleeves. I don't think we have to hope.:)

ToasterOnFire
September 8th, 2006, 08:35 PM
umm, she didn't shoot cam. the bad guy did

what a waste of a cool leather jacket
Oh headdesk, never mind. Maybe my subconscious wanted to see Vala shoot Mitch? ;)


Well, when she sacrificed herself at the end of last season, that was pretty heroic. It's not a compilation of just one event. I think she got the patch because of her contributions from mid-season last year until now.
Which would have worked for me if Landry had mentioned this when giving her the patches. (He didn't, did he? Because my memory has already proven to be crap for this ep. :D)

Descent
September 8th, 2006, 08:35 PM
Kudos to Cam when he took action to go after Vala, he wasted no time going after her. I really liked that, one of the reasons why I like the character a lot. I don't see O'Neill pulling a stunt like that these days. *watches for incoming flames*

the fifth man
September 8th, 2006, 08:39 PM
Kudos to Cam when he took action to go after Vala, he wasted no time going after her. I really liked that, one of the reasons why I like the character a lot. I don't see O'Neill pulling a stunt like that these days. *watches for incoming flames*

In his defense, O'Neill's getting a little old to be doing stuff quite like that.:)

I do agree though, I thought the way Cam took quick action like that was really good. I just continue to like him more and more.

Mesenet
September 8th, 2006, 08:45 PM
15 minutes left on the second showing - come on a wheelie?! Give me a break. I take back the nice thing I said for the last M&M episode.

jds1982
September 8th, 2006, 08:52 PM
Did anyone notice the opening scene in the diner sorta seemed like A History of Violence?

the fifth man
September 8th, 2006, 08:52 PM
15 minutes left on the second showing - come on a wheelie?! Give me a break. I take back the nice thing I said for the last M&M episode.

What's really the big deal? Maybe he was just seeing what the bike could do. I doubt it was to show-boat.

FerCryinOutLoud!
September 8th, 2006, 08:52 PM
So the show is suddenly getting canceled and Stargate fans are becoming Stargate haters. That's not to say that you have to like every episode. But because this episode didn't take place in a space ship with explosions and tons of action it becomes a bad episode? I used to think Stargate wasn't about explosions or space ships. I thought it was supposed to be about characters and plot development. We got that here. We even got team bonding. Did anyone stop to think that maybe that Ancient tablet that Vala was getting her mind probed for might have something to do with the search for Merlins weapon? The Trust has spies in Stargate command. I'm pretty sure they know about the weapon. I mean no, they didn't bonk you on the head explicitly and say hey! We're looking for Merlin's weapon. Would you kindly tell me where it is? No. The whole Vala becoming a team member was deserved. She's saved their lives last season by sacrificing her own well being at the Super Gate. But she also proved something this episode. That she's not going to leave or screw over SG-1 or the SGC and that she's here for the long hall. She's valuable and has talents that are helpful to the cause. With all of these things, i think she deserves to be on the team. But most of you are too busy hating you can't pay attention to the significance of subtle unsubtlety. Now i'm not flaming anyone or attacking anyone in particular. I'm just pointing out the inconsistency in the negative comments being said about a perfectly good, character developing, non-action based episode.

I gave it a humble and modest 8/10

FoolishPleasure
September 8th, 2006, 08:55 PM
I liked the idea of Claudia getting a Vala-centric episode, but I don't think M&M really capitalized on it. I would have liked to see Vala struggle a bit more trying to work in the real world instead of having her involved in two kidnappings, two shootouts, and a car chase.

The Daniel/Vala scenes were nice, and I like those two as a couple, but at a time when SG1 needs high ratings and fans are fighting to keep this show alive, the last thing we needed was this episode. As my son said, this was one of those "cheap, filler" episodes so they can save money down the road. This was not the show we need at this time to draw in more viewers, except for Mitchell handcuffed to the bed. . .that got my attention. ;)

MasySyma
September 8th, 2006, 08:56 PM
Oh well, I always knew that I was odd. I loved this episode.

The Vala/Daniel interaction was well done, and I love that Vala's character is receiving the development she deserves.

I also appreciated that Vala was rescued and that she is starting to regard the SGC as home. I love that she is no longer a tag along team member, and the episode shows that despite her past, she is a good person.

The team dynamic worked well, and I, too, loved the pants jokes. I enjoy that even Landry felt part of the team tonight.

I'm sleeply, so I'll stop elaborating now, but it was a fantastic episode. 10/10.

the fifth man
September 8th, 2006, 08:58 PM
It's not like this episode didn't have any action. It had plenty IMO. We just didn't have ships flying all over the place, and explosions every 3 minutes. I have no problem at all with episodes like this one was.

Descent
September 8th, 2006, 09:03 PM
For me it was like this...

Pros:

-Great Daniel/Vala Scenes

-Firefights were well done

-Cam going after Vala :cameron:

-Cam and Vala and the whole bed situation

-Cams one zat blast (you know the one im talking about)

Cons:

-Vala being mysteriously bumped up to SG-1, where'd this come from?

-The Trust rigging the warehouse to blow...wouldn't that of potentially killed Vala?

-The SGC giving out information on an insecure channel which led to the Trust figuring out where she is. :rolleyes:

Joe and Paul are starting to lose their edge I think, I've loved a lot of their past episodes but...it just seems like they're getting tired of writing (for SG-1 at least), IMHO.

ToasterOnFire
September 8th, 2006, 09:03 PM
I'm just pointing out the inconsistency in the negative comments being said about a perfectly good, character developing, non-action based episode.
Er, you see the inconsistency just because you thought it was a perfectly good ep and apparently expect everyone to see the same. For others who thought the ep was so-so or utter crap, negative comments from them are completely consistent. Unless I'm missing something. :S

Erik Pasternak
September 8th, 2006, 09:04 PM
Oh, and for the factual nitpickers, look close during the cycle chase...and the road sign to Surrey *ahem* they're only 2,000 miles off ;)That and the fact that no one in Colorado uses the term "freeway." The detective should have said "highway."

RedGuard
September 8th, 2006, 09:05 PM
It's not like this episode didn't have any action. It had plenty IMO. We just didn't have ships flying all over the place, and explosions every 3 minutes. I have no problem at all with episodes like this one was.

I like these types of episodes as well. We learned more about the Trust and Vala. Also, we got to see how much the team truly cares for one another and most importantly, SG-1 became a five-person team (finally) :D Anyways, the story had substance and built up the relationship SG-1 has as a team. I give it 9/10. Plus once again, the Personnel/Agent body count went up again. TPTB are more than happy to kill off a few government personnel from time to time. ;)

Descent
September 8th, 2006, 09:05 PM
That and the fact that no one in Colorado uses the term "freeway." The detective should have said "highway."

This is true. I scratched my head at that moment as well.

chazevelt
September 8th, 2006, 09:05 PM
I liked it. Hey, it's SG1 for crying out loud. Like marriage, there are good times and bad times, but when you step back and look at the big picture, it's all about the love affair. I'm in love with SG1. I'll happily take whatever they give me and be grateful. I'm not going to tear apart every episode and examine each thread for a yea or nay, and I'm certainly not gonna use one episode to decide if I'm gonna bother watching the next. Gimme more SG1, that's all I ask. Keep it coming. Earthbound, in space, this ship, that ship, heroics, jokes, aliens, too much Cam, not enough Jack- just gimme gimme gimme. I'm in this for the long haul...

the fifth man
September 8th, 2006, 09:07 PM
That and the fact that no one in Colorado uses the term "freeway." The detective should have said "highway."

Really? No one? I don't know about that statement.

Hubble
September 8th, 2006, 09:07 PM
How did Vala earn a place as an official member of SG-1? What did she do tonight? I don't begrudge her participation in SGC but her rise to SG-1 member is baffling to me. Seems too early.

I didn't get that either — Sam said "You earned it." I didn't see that she did anything to earn it, especially in this episode, other than get kidnapped.

A few funny moments; I thought Claudia did a fine job, and I liked Sam teasing Mitchell about losing his pants. Like Sky, I also wondered about the car crash — not a scratch on Vala. Generally, it didn't hold my interest - not a well-written episode, IMO.

Descent
September 8th, 2006, 09:08 PM
Really? No one? I don't know about that statement.

Its a rarely used term here, believe me. Its not totally out of the question but still... :S

JanusAncient
September 8th, 2006, 09:08 PM
Good episode. Really liked the part with Teal'c, how quickly he got the information, after all that what I've seen, yada yada yada stuff.

the fifth man
September 8th, 2006, 09:09 PM
Its a rarely used term here, believe me. Its not totally out of the question but still... :S

I'm just saying. It's amazing the things we nitpick over sometimes.:)

FoolishPleasure
September 8th, 2006, 09:11 PM
Good episode. Really liked the part with Teal'c, how quickly he got the information, after all that what I've seen, yada yada yada stuff.
I want to know what Teal'c whispered in that guy's ear. *LOL*

TechnoBoY
September 8th, 2006, 09:12 PM
I liked this episode a lot also. It didnt have the explosions or anything but I thought it was very well written. Good ep.

I was wondering why the deli owner looked familliar!

the fifth man
September 8th, 2006, 09:12 PM
I want to know what Teal'c whispered in that guy's ear. *LOL*

I'm sure a lot of us do.;) Whatever it was, it was very effective. They should have him interrogate people from now on. He's obviously darn good at it.

NotAscended
September 8th, 2006, 09:14 PM
That and the fact that no one in Colorado uses the term "freeway." The detective should have said "highway."

Probably one of the many Californians who have moved there. :)

khd
September 8th, 2006, 09:22 PM
This episode has some good moments, the motorcycle chase, the motel scene, when Cam shot the zat blast down the beam, but overall not a good episode. The story really suffered. Amnesia has been done to death more than zombies in scifi and numerous plot holes ruined it for me.

Seastallion
September 8th, 2006, 09:23 PM
I liked this episode. I really loved seeing Vala off base..! I have to admit, I'm not really much of a shipper, but somehow I really like the idea of Daniel and Vala getting together. I don't know... there is something about the fact that Vala used to be a Goa'uld host (Sha're anyone? Sort of a 'closer' thing...), and the relationship the two have developed that I like. I think Daniel likes her too, but he's sort of trying to deny it. Everyone else sees it though... :p Also, I think they are good for each other in the long run. They sort of anchor each other in some ways.

Hey! What about that car/motorcycle (go Cam..! ;) ) chase scene..! I LOVED that..! Not often you get to see that on Stargate..! It was great..! Nice to see Vala getting to be an actual SG-1 member now. I guess she's finally begun to earn more trust from everyone. On a postive note, I think that this just serves to cement Vala's commitment to being a part of the SGC. I think deep down it is really good medicine for her soul to actually be living among people who care about her, and even trust her to some degree. I think it is helping her to recover some of what she'd lost as a result of being taken as a host, from whatever people she originally came from. She finally has a home again. :)

Mesenet
September 8th, 2006, 09:26 PM
Agreed, but nothing can beat Emancipation as worst episode ever. Damn did that episode suck.


Sorry to disagree with you. It was an ep that explored a debate amongst one's own culture. But more importantly - it was the first character exploration of Sam Carter. It showed that she could kick butt!

suse
September 8th, 2006, 09:28 PM
While it was not an action packed episode, I did enjoy this one. I thought that CB did a fantastic job showing her confusion at what was going on when she had to. It showed me a lot about her ingrained survival instincts.

Loved the explosion out of the warehouse and Mitchell's shooting the metal shelf to get the guy.

The episode as a whole seemed a bit "surface". It seemed as if they would touch on something then move along to the next thing. I am glad they did spend some time Mitchell handcuffed to the bed, shirtless *sorry for the fangirlie moment*

Wonder what Teal'c said to get the information they needed?;)

Was that the first Stargate car crash ever?


LOL! I'd think the writer/director would disagree with you about how action-packed the ep was. Car roll! reminded me of Hunter (cheesy 80's tv!)Motorcycle chase! awful footage cuts with correspondingly awful motorcycle sound that should have been looped in an overall awful "have the stunt double pop a wheelie so our hero looks more heroic" way. Vala takes down the robbers! speaking of stunt doubles and poor editting... I agree with you however. What action there was was laughable. And mockable. But then. that describes much of the last 2 seasons for me. :(

For heaven sake, Mitchell's been hurt worse that that in the field and got back up to fight.I think Poor baby. But I suppose that didn't go along with the plot. Or perhaps that only happens off-planet. :S

I didn't mind Mitchell handcuffed to the bed either. Shirtless/pantless was a bit much. Sorry, I don't have fangirl moments with Mitchell. Though Sam razzing him about it was funny. There and in front of Landry at the end.

I spent a whole lot of time rolling my eyes. And pointing out how many times they used the same stretch of road and warehouse (looks like the same place they filmed Sateda).

As soon as Vala started taking the order at the beginning I dubbed her "Flo" and Sal was "Mel". That solidified when she popped the gum later. :D

Oy. I'm honestly not sure what to rate this. Loved CB. Disliked and mockedway too many parts to give it a high score. :S No idea. have to think more about it. Or not. <shrug>

To end on a positive note: I enjoyed Claudia Black in this episode. Though I've never blamed CB for the horrible way Vala was developed in S9 anyway. And actually liked Vala. While it's not a first, it's the most time I've liked her throughout an ep without wanting her to disappear into a black hole the next minute. Kudos to Claudia for a job well done!

Suse

Dani347
September 8th, 2006, 09:34 PM
*bites tongue before rant about posts that are about about other people's reactions to the episode more than posts about the episode itself comes out*

I found the episode boring, actually. I find most Earth bound and Trust heavy episodes boring. Not because I felt it should be better than the last episodes (I judge each one on its own merit) and certainly not because I wanted ships or explosions, which I also find horribly boring. I also found it odd that Vala has no memory, and in her amnesiac state, she was totally Earthlike. Nothing stood out in her behavior that she wasn't from here. I would have expected it to.

suse
September 8th, 2006, 09:36 PM
it was the first car crash...however those 3 peopel dying while vala doesn't have a scratch just doesnt' work. especially since she was unrestrained. the car wasn't damaged enough.

<snip>

Agreed. I've rolled a car three times (same car, three rolls, one accident). There would have been way more damage. And Vala would have been prectically dismembered without a seat belt on. Broken bones for a start for the the way she was draped with her arms over the seat around the driver's neck. Though the one person also crawled out alive and was mortally wounded by Cam, not the accident. Dramatic license for days here...:rolleyes:

Suse

star47
September 8th, 2006, 09:40 PM
I guess I'll be one of the minority....I loved this episode! Loved the character development of Vala, the adventure, suspense, humor, the emotional moment between Vala and Daniel, Daniel needs someone to care about, not especially romantically, but a connection with another person that's been missing for awhile. Loved the team worried about and caring what's happened to Vala, and seeing the team on a "mission" together. It doesn't have to all be "off-world" that's the advantage of everything taking place in the "here and now", and an earth-based show saves the all important budget for bigger episodes later on.

For the people complaining about this episode being a waste when they have so few shows left before the end. We have to remember this episode was done "before" news of the cancellation. They probably thought there would at least be another season, if not more.

david2708
September 8th, 2006, 09:53 PM
I got to say the Mallozzi/Mullie writing team has been writing bad episodes lately, I think they're in a slump.
Lately?
How about years!
Any episode I see they have written I just know it will be mostly rubbish.

NotAscended
September 8th, 2006, 09:56 PM
I guess I'll be one of the minority....I loved this episode! Loved the character development of Vala, the adventure, suspense, humor, the emotional moment between Vala and Daniel, Daniel needs someone to care about, not especially romantically, but a connection with another person that's been missing for awhile. Loved the team worried about and caring what's happened to Vala, and seeing the team on a "mission" together. It doesn't have to all be "off-world" that's the advantage of everything taking place in the "here and now", and an earth-based show saves the all important budget for bigger episodes later on.



I agree with all your points and found this a fun episode, even if I had to suspend belief for much of it. I've never been a fan of Trust episodes, so I especially enjoyed the character moments that livened this one up.

DEM
September 8th, 2006, 09:57 PM
There are no words.

Drool, yes; words, no.

Descent
September 8th, 2006, 09:57 PM
I got to say the Mallozzi/Mullie writing team has been writing bad episodes lately, I think they're in a slump.

Yeah. They've been writing so many (most bad, though their SGA ones have been good...maybe it has to do with BW and RC?) episodes lately, its obvious they've run out of their creative juices.

Gater_Gurl
September 8th, 2006, 10:04 PM
-Heh, the deli owner was Donna's dad from That 70s Show. So used to seeing him with a fro. :D

I know! Seeing a character from another one of my fav shows made this ep a bit more enjoyable for me. I also enjoyed the Daniel/Vala scenes and the Mitchell handcuffed to the bed scene.
I'd give it a 6.5/10 overall

gatebee
September 8th, 2006, 10:05 PM
I enjoyed tonights ep, I was entertained and Vala did a good job of it.

Can't remember it but it felt like a fanfic that I read sometime ago except the character was Sam. Sam was a waitress and SG1/Jack went looking for her.

Ok, question, who is the spy in SGC. It seems that the Trust were always ahead of SG1 in everything. The spy must be way up high in SGC to get all the info that fast.

Mitchell82
September 8th, 2006, 10:10 PM
All this hating is so depressing but I was wxpecting this. I swear. This was an excellent episode IMO and really showcases why I love this shoe. It had everthing great tema moments great Vala showcase and really loved seing the Trust again. Vala getting a SG-1 patch YAY! She sure as hell has earned it. She has more than proved herself throughout seasons 9 and 10. I am so sick of every one after an episode that is not a gate/ship/actiton based say this is why the show is cancelled good riddence writers suck etc.. This was an excllent episode really gave CB a chance to shine. I can't praise this episode enough it really had me hooked from the begining and liked everything from Sal to Athena and the memory loss and especially Val officialy on SG-1. I must say this really shows how much the show is still alive IMO.

suse
September 8th, 2006, 10:16 PM
{Mod Snip}
Seriously, this ep was really a mixed bag. Loved this Vala. But Vala's been growing on me anyway. (Still can't stand the S9 stuff though. I thought I was going to barf though those Vala intro clips in the "Behind the Scenes of 200".) The plot was paper thin lol! T'was written on paper... and the action scenes were not ridiculous, not ludicrous, but went all the way to plaid had to get the obligatory Spaceball reference in..suse loves Spaceballs as in overshot cheesy by at least a week.

Suse

suse
September 8th, 2006, 10:18 PM
I enjoyed tonights ep, I was entertained and Vala did a good job of it.

Can't remember it but it felt like a fanfic that I read sometime ago except the character was Sam. Sam was a waitress and SG1/Jack went looking for her.

Ok, question, who is the spy in SGC. It seems that the Trust were always ahead of SG1 in everything. The spy must be way up high in SGC to get all the info that fast.
:D Maybe it's Walter. ;)

Suse

Dani347
September 8th, 2006, 10:21 PM
Nope. Not gonna do it. I really don't like getting headaches from message boards. Sorry for anyone who might be replying to the message pre edit.

I can't think of much to say about the episode itself (dull pretty much summed it up for me) but I will try to keep my comments strictly to the episode and not anything else from now on.

Hatusu
September 8th, 2006, 10:23 PM
Some generally good moments in a generally bad episode. Not good folks. I'm really hoping S10 gets out of this habit of "good-bad-good-bad".

5/10 from me.
I agree.This episode felt like an episode of "T.J. Hooker". Boring writing, mundane film technique...I also thought Claudia Black's make-up and lighting in the interrogation scene were very unflattering.

...I'm trying to think of a good moment. I guess the pants joke. :)

Mitchell82
September 8th, 2006, 10:27 PM
That's not so. I loved to hate the show before they cancelled it too! :p

Seriously, this ep was really a mixed bag. Loved this Vala. But Vala's been growing on me anyway. (Still can't stand the S9 stuff though. I thought I was going to barf though those Vala intro clips in the "Behind the Scenes of 200".) The plot was paper thin lol! T'was written on paper... and the action scenes were not ridiculous, not ludicrous, but went all the way to plaid had to get the obligatory Spaceball reference in..suse loves Spaceballs as in overshot cheesy by at least a week.

Suse
See I loved all that. *sigh* Oh well we all have our own opinions.

Hatusu
September 8th, 2006, 10:27 PM
Agreed, but nothing can beat Emancipation as worst episode ever. Damn did that episode suck.
Think about the fact that you are a guy saying you didn't like "Emancipation". I disagree, but then I'm a woman.

2ndgenerationalteran
September 8th, 2006, 10:30 PM
the episode made me teary eyed, that doesnt happen much but the show hit a poignent string. i loved it.

suse
September 8th, 2006, 10:32 PM
I agree.This episode felt like an episode of "TJ Hooker". Boring writing, mundane film technique...I also thought Claudia Black's make-up and lighting in the interrogation scene were very unflattering.

...I'm trying to think of a good moment. I guess the pants joke. :)


LOL. I came up with "Hunter" but "TJ Hooker" works. It's all cheesy 80's cop show workmanship. I'd even go for "The A-Team" :S

I didn't notice Claudia's make-up til she was a waitress. Then I laughed at the caked on green(?) eyeshadow. It' soooo fit with the character's situation. And I'm sure it was an homage to something. Flo in "Alice" even...

Yes, the pants joke was good. Leaves an entirely different impression of you're a Brit though... :eek::D:D:D:D:D:eek:

CB did a great job emoting when she was holding a gun on Daniel. And with the cop. And overall.

Suse

takinspace
September 8th, 2006, 10:32 PM
I liked it. Not bad for an Earth episode. Biggest let down was that CB and MJ had some good interaction going there, good character going, and then it went elsewhere and got superficial (i.e, off to the races of the main plot).

I was impressed by CB in the dinner scene. Not often she gets to radiate a little.

What was the first Cam-pants loss??

o-0
September 8th, 2006, 10:33 PM
in the motel scene, anyone notice cam's hand being moved up and down between the front and back camera views?
i enjoyed this episode, but i dont like how there's a new villain on earth since that'll make closing the show harder

Hatusu
September 8th, 2006, 10:33 PM
So the show is suddenly getting canceled and Stargate fans are becoming Stargate haters. That's not to say that you have to like every episode. But because this episode didn't take place in a space ship with explosions and tons of action it becomes a bad episode? I used to think Stargate wasn't about explosions or space ships. I thought it was supposed to be about characters and plot development. We got that here. We even got team bonding...
You made a good point, but I just didn't believe it.

RealmOfX
September 8th, 2006, 10:34 PM
Ok, question, who is the spy in SGC. It seems that the Trust were always ahead of SG1 in everything. The spy must be way up high in SGC to get all the info that fast.

In S9 in one of the Ba'al eps they said that they had compromised the secure communications network of the military. So unless the good guys found out about it and shut it down then this is probably how it was done.

If it hadn't of been for CB then I would have turned this one off - definitely a big

MEH

Dani347
September 8th, 2006, 10:37 PM
Yes, the pants joke was good. Leaves an entirely different impression of you're a Brit though... :eek::D:D:D:D:D:eek:


Suse


I'm guessing pants = underwear?

Mesenet
September 8th, 2006, 10:39 PM
This ep had potential if it didn't have the quick jumps in the story line making it wobble all over the place.

Was the center focus was supposed to be:
Vala having some buried useful knowledge/Vala's backstory/Vala character development/The Trust?

Good moments:
Vala running on instincts to defend herself and the demonstration that her natural persona is to be honest and modest.
Cam jumping into action
The motel scenes
The warehouse scene between Daniel and Vala (stamps feet screaming its not a ship!) when her memory comes back.

All in all it was not a horrible ep. In my book that would be Wormhole X and Citizen Joe. 5 maybe 6/10.

Mitchell82
September 8th, 2006, 10:42 PM
This ep had potential if it didn't have the quick jumps in the story line making it wobble all over the place.

Was the center focus was supposed to be:
Vala having some buried useful knowledge/Vala's backstory/Vala character development/The Trust?

Good moments:
Vala running on instincts to defend herself and the demonstration that her natural persona is to be honest and modest.
Cam jumping into action
The motel scenes
The warehouse scene between Daniel and Vala (stamps feet screaming its not a ship!) when her memory comes back.

All in all it was not a horrible ep. In my book that would be Wormhole X and Citizen Joe. 5 maybe 6/10.
I loved those episodes as well and since I love Vala loved this ep. Not the best ever but still a top 5.

Mesenet
September 8th, 2006, 10:43 PM
Ok, question, who is the spy in SGC. It seems that the Trust were always ahead of SG1 in everything. The spy must be way up high in SGC to get all the info that fast.

Interesting theory - a spy in the SGC. Not sure though. There was an episode where it was explained that The Trust was able to bug/tap into some of the most secure communication lines in the SGC.

Michelle05
September 8th, 2006, 10:44 PM
Based on the leaked previews I expected to really love this episode, but although I enjoyed the team aspects and loved, loved, loved Daniel, the overall plot was unsatisfying. Note: this does not make me a bad fan! It's just my opinion of one episode in a season I've enjoyed a lot.

The chick Goa'uld was not convincing to me and her initial dialog was very stock and expositional. Then later, what was the point of all her investment discussions, and how did she know when companies were going to have breakthroughs or problems?

Vala in the diner just seemed off somehow. I would have thought she would revert to her manipulative, assertive ways but instead she was just sort of pitiful. I did like her interactions with the cop, though he was an idiot to give her up with no paperwork.

That Setesh's treasure was a hoax was a disappointment -- a possible plotline cut off. And it made the memory probing meaningless, so it became just a plot device.

I wish we'd seen Cam get on the motorcycle. That was odd editing, since clearly it was a stunt man from then on.

How does the Trust so conveniently intercept SGC communications? How did anyone follow Vala to the warehouse from the hotel, and why did she leave Mitchell? The last fight scene just seemed like a time filler. There was no question about the outcome, no tension. Also they appeared to be filmed in video or something sort of phony looking.

I liked the "date" scene, loved Daniel talking Vala down, and last team scene at the SGC. Also, Cam and Vala, though those scenes were strangely without energy.

I'll watch it again and maybe like it more the second time, but I'm afraid this one was not a great ep IMO.

Michelle

SG1-XF9
September 8th, 2006, 10:48 PM
I don't see O'Neill pulling a stunt like that these days. **

Well...for sure you don't see him do that....because the thing is...HE'S NOT THERE...to show you!!!

Personaly I don't care if Cam is able to ride a bike....!!When I heard him the first time...it was like I was hearing O'Neill....like the same jokes....!!!

GGGGGgggrrr!! Since when Carter calls Cam....Cam!! I just don't understand....she never been able to say "Jack" more than two times in the whole show!!!

I'm sorry, but as you can see...I'm a huge fan of O'Neill and Sam/Jack!!!!

suse
September 8th, 2006, 10:48 PM
I'm guessing pants = underwear?

Got it in one. :D

Suse

suse
September 8th, 2006, 10:51 PM
I liked it. Not bad for an Earth episode. Biggest let down was that CB and MJ had some good interaction going there, good character going, and then it went elsewhere and got superficial (i.e, off to the races of the main plot).

I was impressed by CB in the dinner scene. Not often she gets to radiate a little.

What was the first Cam-pants loss??

Ripple Effect. :(

Dani347
September 8th, 2006, 10:54 PM
The chick Goa'uld was not convincing to me and her initial dialog was very stock and expositional. Then later, what was the point of all her investment discussions, and how did she know when companies were going to have breakthroughs or problems?



For myself, I find when the Goa'uld are masquerading as normal people on Earth, with suits and businesses, they come off as dull. I like my Goa'uld pompous and elaborate and oozing smugness. With costumes.

Descent
September 8th, 2006, 10:55 PM
Since when Carter calls Cam....Cam!! I just don't understand....she never been able to say "Jack" more than two times in the whole show!!!

Because they're both the same rank. They joint command SG-1, which I don't think some people get sometimes.

michey
September 8th, 2006, 10:56 PM
Personally I loved it, but I'm a D/V Shipper, so I would LOL

majorsal
September 8th, 2006, 10:57 PM
just finished watching the ep. i recorded it so, if the feeling came over me, i could fastforward through things.... i tried, i really tried, but i fastforwarded through all of vala's alone without sg1 scenes (which meant all her kidnapping, amnesia stuff, etc).

as for the rest of it; not bad. daniel and vala are nice together, and since vala is more likable... and this leaves me to say well done to the writers, for letting me like vala AND mitchell now. and i want this to continue. they were both very likable for me tonight, so there's no ragging to be done.

i'm not sure i can really judge this ep fairly, but what i saw was fine. and i guess i really didn't mind vala being made a member of sg1 now, since the show is so different than it used to be. i'm sure sam's dry cleaner will be one now, or am i just judging this from a season 9 pov? *shrugs*

so no score (can't fairly), but no cringing, even when mitchell went motorcycle guy.

OH, one more thing. please, PLEASE, before the ptb decide to resolve any daniel/vala stuff, PLEEEEEEAAAAASSSEEE resolve the sam/jack stuff first!!! (10 years, waiting, suffering, nuff said)




sally :)

memnarch
September 8th, 2006, 10:58 PM
I liked this episode. I really did. But the Trust are starting to piss me off! They're becoming a cheap, filler plot device that Joseph Mallozzi and Paul Mullie pull out of their hats every chance they get. Don't get me wrong, they do good episodes, when they're big episodes (ie Exodus, Counterstrike, Revelations, etc) but they do WAY (!!!) too many Earth episodes! Seriously, 4 out of 5 Earth episodes since season 4 have been written by them, I'd bet.

Anyway, I enjoyed the dinner scene between Daniel and Vala. It's becoming more and more obvious to everyone that Daniel likes her back, and I liked that he tried to have an honest discussion with her (sans the "It's not a date" line, haha) and to try and make here feel welcome. Also, loved that Don Stark was in this episode as Sal. I'm a big fan of his from That 70's Show. I also liked the detective in this episode. Good performance from a guest star. Cameron got some good moments in, plus Teal'c's interrogation techniques always crack me up. Carter's amusement was also amusing for me. And last, but not least, Vala continues to show Sci Fi what gigantic idiots they all are for not renewing the show! Oh, and I liked Landry's moment at the end when he's left standing there! Classic!

Overall, Memento Mori rates a 2.5/4, despite conveniant Trust stuff

Dani347
September 8th, 2006, 10:59 PM
i'm sure sam's dry cleaner will be one now, or am i just judging this from a season 9 pov? *shrugs*



Now, that's just silly. Sam's plumber is a shoe in for a spot, on the other hand.

Shipperahoy
September 8th, 2006, 10:59 PM
The episode was actually quite a bit better for me than I was expecting. I usually don't care for Earth-bound episodes at all as they usually seem rather slow-paced and dull IMO but this was actually entertaining for me. I had been concerned that with a Vala-centric episode that it would be an hour of the slapstick Vala of season 9 but they pulled it off and even gave her more development as a character. It wasn't my favorite episode of the season but I wasn't bored and there were quite a few touching and/or funny moments. The bond between Daniel and Vala is pretty sweet and I have to admit that I wasn't paying much attention to any dialogue during the scene with Cam handcuffed to the bed because..well..because I'm completely shallow. I'm dying to know what Teal'c said in the interrogation room but I'm thinking that's what TPTB were trying for. I too am a bit confused as to Vala all of the sudden being okayed to be on SG-1 but I tend to have the ability not to dwell on the little details, like the Surrey roadsign.;)

majorsal
September 8th, 2006, 11:00 PM
Think about the fact that you are a guy saying you didn't like "Emancipation". I disagree, but then I'm a woman.

i know, i loved emancipation! :p first sam-kicks-butt-and-shows-she's-tough ep. ;)





sally :)

o-0
September 8th, 2006, 11:02 PM
on the positive side, the next ep looks pretty good

suse
September 8th, 2006, 11:05 PM
I<snip>Anyway, I enjoyed the dinner scene between Daniel and Vala. It's becoming more and more obvious to everyone that Daniel likes her back, and I liked that he tried to have an honest discussion with her (sans the "It's not a date" line, haha) and to try and make here feel welcome. <snip>
Overall, Memento Mori rates a 2.5/4, despite conveniant Trust stuff

:confused: I didn't see this at all. I think Daniel cares for her but not in that way. He's compassionate, not passionate in this case IMO, naturally. <shrug> Though I don't care if he does. As long as it's off-screen.

To each his/her own.

Suse

gatebee
September 8th, 2006, 11:05 PM
Interesting theory - a spy in the SGC. Not sure though. There was an episode where it was explained that The Trust was able to bug/tap into some of the most secure communication lines in the SGC.
top level complex like sgc, shouldn't they have plug that bug/leak by now.

Dani347
September 8th, 2006, 11:08 PM
:confused: I didn't see this at all. I think Daniel cares for her but not in that way. He's compassionate, not passionate in this case IMO, naturally.

Suse


I feel the same way. He considers her a friend, and cares for her as a friend. That's it.

takinspace
September 8th, 2006, 11:30 PM
Ripple Effect. :(
Oh yeah! LOL

takinspace
September 8th, 2006, 11:31 PM
I liked this episode. I really did. But the Trust are starting to piss me off!
Just a random tweaked-out Goa'uld would have been better than the Trust. I actually sank in my chair when I heard "Trust," and it was completely involuntary!

nyxlily
September 8th, 2006, 11:34 PM
This episode was also a 'meh' for me.

I also felt cheated (I'm pretty sure someone already brought this up earlier) that the whole treasure map thing was a hoax. I thought at least they would use this episode to further a later storyline so it wouldn't be totally wasted. So disappointed that the whole memory probe was such an obvious plot device.

I didn't really care for the dialogues written for the Goa'uld. The character was so obviously used to explain why this was happening. I understand exposition had to happen so the audience wouldn't get lost, but c'mon.. those lines were so wooden; I felt she was telling US (the viewers) what was going on point by point. So the character was pretty much written explicitely for why we have an amnesic Vala, and nothing else. If the treasure map was real and ties in to a future plot, I wouldn't have minded this very much.

I didn't see the leaked ending clip floating around the net so I was half fearful of the potential shippiness. As it was, I thought the last Vala/Daniel moment was the highlight of the show. Finally, some drama on this otherwise emotionally bland episode. And actually, even though I'm still skeptical the writers could possibly write a compentent (and realistic) romantic relationship with our main characters, the way Vala responded to Daniel and the ensuring hug sorta, slightly, made me feel that maybe IF a ship between these two might be made canon, I might be okay with it. And this is a huge admission for me because I am completely anti-ship and I still sincerely do hope the writers won't bring them down that road. There would still be a lot of convincing to do if I was to accept it whole-heartedly.

The chase scenes and the car crash was neat. I had fun watching them as it never happens on Stargate. I don't understand how Mitchell PASSED OUT from a bullet grazing his arm. Was it a magic silver bullet? From the scenes in the motel, it was obviously a flesh wound. I know, how would I know if someone would pass out from it? I don't, but OUR guys obviously suffered much worst before and they got on with the mission without a whimper. Maybe a lot of whinning.. but.. they kept going. Or was it all the fanfictions I read mixing in with canon again.. Okay, someone needs to tell me if one of our guys was ever shot and kept going with the mission!

I am still not convinced Mitchell would pass out from a graze on the arm.

Carter did pratically nothing this episode, so can't comment.. but she did look really nice in the civvies. Teal'c also didn't do much.. but we got to see his awesome Jaffa interogation technique. They should use him more often in questioning their prisoners!

I like the idea of whoever said Walter is the inside man :D It's so obvious! He pratically has the run of the base and no one would ever question him! Who wouldn't trust that face?

Do I have any other points to make? Maybe.. but I can't think of it right now.. so.. oh, I know. I have to rate this now.. don't I.. bah, forget it. I don't want to.

NotAscended
September 8th, 2006, 11:39 PM
Okay, I'm rewatching the episode on the 11pm rerun (yes, I know some folks are questioning my sanity now). Does anyone know who is the actor that played the local detective? He did a really nice job of making the character distinctive and bringing genuine emotion to a rather minor part. I hope we get to see the actor or character again.

JayShadow
September 9th, 2006, 12:02 AM
I enjoyed the episode more then I thought I was going to going in. That being said, I think the Trust were trying to find the key to magically unlock their acting ability.

RealmOfX
September 9th, 2006, 12:18 AM
top level complex like sgc, shouldn't they have plug that bug/leak by now.

True, but it wasn't just the SGC's communication network so unless you know it is there, how do you know you have to plug it?

SocalFan
September 9th, 2006, 12:39 AM
Big bag of suck this week. At least we had a great Atlantis episode to go with it.

What exactly were the henchmen doing in that warehouse at the end? Vala was hiding there, and so were they? Forget TJ Hooker or Hunter, this was more like 60's Batman.

They left a dangling plot about a Gould on Earth. In the old days, that would be a season-long arc. Here, dollars to donuts, we forget about Athena.

Umm, aren't we supposed to be looking for a weapon to fight the Ori? Seems like we could have a bottle episode, if necessary, that advances the story line.

I really liked Vala's presence last year, but this season they portray her as such an eager puppy dog tagging along SO enthusiastically. I liked her better as a badass scoundrel.

Ditto on the police detective. What a wonderfully played guest spot.

Also, the diner scenes reminded me of when Daniel was posessed by Machello. I guess it's not the same place but a similar mood. Is that on the way to Surrey?

Kliggins
September 9th, 2006, 12:39 AM
Agreed, but nothing can beat Emancipation as worst episode ever. Damn did that episode suck.

Still voting for Affinity as worst episode ever.

I got bored with this episode. If I wanted to see Ben shirtless I can go to my old FS tapes, but on SG1 I want to see stories moved forward and plots and characters developed.

Michelle05
September 9th, 2006, 12:40 AM
The chase scenes and the car crash was neat. I had fun watching them as it never happens on Stargate. I don't understand how Mitchell PASSED OUT from a bullet grazing his arm. Was it a magic silver bullet? From the scenes in the motel, it was obviously a flesh wound.
Yes, I meant to say that too, and it really bothered me on second viewing. The way they spoke when he woke up, it was if he hadn't just driven her to the hotel, where you'd think they would have had time to chat! His wound should have been more serious for that scene to make any sense.

Also on rewatching, I have to say I don't completely agree with CB's choice to make Vala seem so vulnerable. I guess it's meant to show how much she's changed since being part of the SGC, but such a transformation is hard to believe in such a short period, and I think it served to reduce the energy level of the episode versus how Vala usually livens things...

On second viewing the overall plot seemed a bit less choppy, so there's a positive :-)

Agent_Dark
September 9th, 2006, 01:57 AM
The episode was very bland. Nothing to do with it being an Earth ep, or a Vala ep (though I don't care for Daniel/Vala at all, so those scenes also got a 'meh' from me), but simply because it was bland.
That had to be the worst car chase in the history of car chases.... I mean, you can watch any of those police shows (where they take cameras out with real police officers) and see more exciting car chases. And the car flipping...:tealc34:
Then there's also Daniel putting his gun down in that firefight at the end. There are bad guys shooting at the rest of SG1 (and why the bad guys are hiding there in the first place...?) and he's just standing there talking to Vala. No offence intended against Vala, but why didn't he just zat her and deal with the more immediate problem of the bad guys shooting at everyone.

On the plus side, Sam and Teal'c looked hot in their civvies (so did everyone else actually) and the pants/Mitchell in bed jokes were funny. But that was about it.

Watt
September 9th, 2006, 02:01 AM
Yeah HUGE bag of suck this week and I actually made time to watch it twice.
The crack about Cam losing his pants made me laff a bit as well as the bed scene but with a wound like that you just wouldn't be easily laying there.
It's as if the writer knew this was the last season when they wrote this and suddenly stopped caring about accuracy and instead started pumping out the crap stories cause they don't have anything to lose right?
Does anyone remember Jack Oneil giving raw recruits a hell of a time who had applied to join the SCG?? I believe a little hottie blond named Halle was among them?
I dunno maybe it's me but it seem that the application standards for those who join the SGC and particulary SG1 have changed?
Apparently the standard for becoming a member of SG1 after a few months with no apparent training that we the audience can see is actually failure and losing your memory. I could go on but why bother?
This is turning into Starscape.
I know someone is going to say Ketesh, right? Big deal. Even Tealc had more training so he was of some use. This is just going from bad to worse.
Landry sitting there looking like a fool most of the time. I hate to once again inject reality into things but the moment that somene mentions that two team members are going out on a date don't cha think the General should have said something???? Maybe pointed those two towards USAF interpersonal regs?? But then again cause this is last season I actually want to see all the rules broken and see V/D boink each other till their ears bleed. Go figure.
CB weak and vunerable with the tears and the teary wide eyes ain't working for me. I've said before that this truly detracts from her character it's farscape all over again.
This was a truly pathetic episode and if it continues in this vein then I can't wait to see the series end and with this type of crapola writing then thats why they probably terminated the series in the FIRST PLACE !!! Sheesh.

AutumnDream
September 9th, 2006, 02:01 AM
I love how they write in that Vala goes wandering off a final time for no reason at the end just so they could throw in their big episode-ending firefight. Talk about contrivances... >_>

Anyway. It seemed kinda quick for her to be getting on SG-1. But I hope Daniel and Vala go finish that "date", and in exactly the way Vala described it. :D

JeBuSBrian
September 9th, 2006, 02:04 AM
As far as I'm concerned, this ep was good enough. Excellent work as far as getting Vala really settled in. Below average on just about everything else.

As for Cam passing out on the bed, you should remember that he had to drive while bleeding. Blood loss will make you whoozy. Laying down and taking a nap is a nice way to recover from that (also the most natural reaction).

Would have been nice to get some other threads into the mix in this ep. Seems like a wasted opportunity to have nothing else in the background of this char development episode. The Trust seemed like a running joke. These guys have the ability to infiltrate anything, but they can't find a few henchmen that can hit the broad side of a barn?

I have to admit to not wanting a Daniel / Vala 'ship in the past, but the Vala character has surprisingly grown on me. This ep cemented her into Stargate for me, and I can't say I'd mind if Daniel and Vala ended up together in some form, come the end.

cindyz
September 9th, 2006, 02:13 AM
My only comment....it would have been funnier if Vala had said she watched reruns of Farscape episodes instead of X-Files.

Farscapefan
September 9th, 2006, 02:21 AM
My only comment....it would have been funnier if Vala had said she watched reruns of Farscape episodes instead of X-Files.

We had "Farscape" moment in 200 and that's enough.

silence
September 9th, 2006, 02:47 AM
i can't believe how much nitpicking goes on here... IMO, this was good episode.
as for story arc... what if Vala has key to fighting Ori at least in our galaxy? "treasure Ancients left before they ascended"? that and Merlin's weapon could tie up Ori arc if MGM doesnt manage to make another season or mini-series or whatever.

whole S10 is soooo much better then S9, things are finally getting into the place, so what if this was Earth ep? It was great CB was great, it had fun and i really can't believe over some details people are whining...
We got a glimpse of Vala's past, we got her in unusual situation, we got some great scenes for shippers...

*mod snip*


S10 is getting right on track.

DIngChavez
September 9th, 2006, 03:19 AM
I liked some of it but it was generally average.

What really annoyed me was the whole rescue attempt of vala.

First they bust in and run forward without even throwing a flashbang. They seemed to have no plan of attack or intel. Just run in and start blasting.

Then the SGC guy runs into the room and zats the trust member without any regard for anything. Why are they using such unreliable weapons in close quarters? They should have P90s or MP5s.

Then he turns his back to help vala without even checking if the guy is down and out. Then gets shot in the back like a chomp.

These are the best commandos in the world?!?

easyease
September 9th, 2006, 03:21 AM
*mod snip*It does sound like a "one for the ladies" episode but it cant be spaceships and explosions every week.
you yanks dont know how frellin lucky you are having it aired first.......and yet most of you still whinge........
sad.

Farscapefan
September 9th, 2006, 03:39 AM
It does sound like a "one for the ladies" episode but it cant be spaceships and explosions every week.
you yanks dont know how frellin lucky you are having it aired first.......and yet most of you still whinge........
sad.

*mod snip* I must say that I abso-frellin-lutely LOVE this episode. Great character stuff. That's what I needed for a long time. Thanks M&M, great job :) And thank you CLAUDIA for brilliant performance.

kiwigater
September 9th, 2006, 04:17 AM
Guys, just a reminder, discussing how/where regarding downloading eps is not allowed as it violates lots and lots of laws and we don't want to be shut down.... :S
Any posts discussing said subject will be deleted and the posters placed on moderation.
If that's not clear, PM a mod :)

Farscapefan
September 9th, 2006, 04:40 AM
Guys, just a reminder, discussing how/where regarding downloading eps is not allowed as it violates lots and lots of laws and we don't want to be shut down.... :S
Any posts discussing said subject will be deleted and the posters placed on moderation.
If that's not clear, PM a mod :)

Point taken. But MGM will have my money when season 10 is out on DVD and I'm not that patient to wait about 2 years to see it on TV when it is eventually aired in my country. Foreigners are not doing anything wrong with {mod snipped myself} IMO. iTunes should think about international sales of season 10, not only for Yanks.

easyease
September 9th, 2006, 04:59 AM
Guys, just a reminder, discussing how/where regarding downloading eps is not allowed as it violates lots and lots of laws and we don't want to be shut down.... :S
Any posts discussing said subject will be deleted and the posters placed on moderation.
If that's not clear, PM a mod :)sorry for that but, its a shame we cant be honest.
Im tired of the shows popularity being judged by its performence on one tv network in one country.
you cant blame the fans for wanting to see the show the moment its made public. sorry again, I'll say no more on the "secret sources".
what should also be bared in mind is that as the show is due to air here in a month or two's time without the huge mid season gap that american viewers suffer, the last half of the series is likely to debut on British cable tv. i find that very ironic being as season 9 hasnt even been shown on terrestrial tv yet here. mgm only have themselves to blame for releasing the show so badly worldwide.

shockwave
September 9th, 2006, 05:25 AM
6/10 not a very good episode, but had some good moments
worst ep of season 10 so far
I cringed when I first read the plot description, but it was a little better then expected
with Morpheus and now this, maybe JM needs out

liked the Vala now official member of the team scene

Agent_Dark
September 9th, 2006, 05:35 AM
sorry for that but, its a shame we cant be honest.
Im tired of the shows popularity being judged by its performence on one tv network in one country.
you cant blame the fans for wanting to see the show the moment its made public. sorry again, I'll say no more on the "secret sources".
what should also be bared in mind is that as the show is due to air here in a month or two's time without the huge mid season gap that american viewers suffer, the last half of the series is likely to debut on British cable tv. i find that very ironic being as season 9 hasnt even been shown on terrestrial tv yet here. mgm only have themselves to blame for releasing the show so badly worldwide.
Not to start up a ratings discussion, but it is the one tv network in the one country that was putting its money in to pay for the production. No other networks were paying for it.

Maxum
September 9th, 2006, 05:51 AM
The Daniel/Vala scenes were nice, and I like those two as a couple, but at a time when SG1 needs high ratings and fans are fighting to keep this show alive, the last thing we needed was this episode. As my son said, this was one of those "cheap, filler" episodes so they can save money down the road. This was not the show we need at this time to draw in more viewers, except for Mitchell handcuffed to the bed. . .that got my attention. ;)

Well, in defense of the episode, the show was probably taped long before the cancellation announcement. Also, these types of shows HAVE to exist in order to offset the costs of later, bigger-budgeted episodes, as you mentioned.

Frankly, if Stargate viewers are going to jump ship just because a less than fabulous episode airs, then what kind of fans are they actually? I've been watching since day one, and there have been a few horrible episodes, as I'm sure you know. There are overall, however, mostly very good stories told on SG-1. I'm actually quite amazed that the storytelling this year is as good as it is. It's part of the reason I'm so upset about the cancellation. It would have been so much easier for me if Season 10 had just been mediocre. It isn't. I am really enjoying it, and the anticipation of the upcoming episodes is just making the thought of the end of this series all that much worse.

Farscapefan
September 9th, 2006, 06:00 AM
From Gateworld's main page:

How would you rate "Memento Mori?"

VOTES PERCENT GRAPH
1 - Terrible 28 3 %
2 12 1 %
3 8 1 %
4 17 2 %
5 - Fair 25 2 %
6 59 6 %
7 86 9 %
8 179 18 %
9 148 15 %
10 - Outstanding 442 44 %
TOTAL VOTES: 1004

silence
September 9th, 2006, 06:11 AM
I'm actually quite amazed that the storytelling this year is as good as it is. It's part of the reason I'm so upset about the cancellation. It would have been so much easier for me if Season 10 had just been mediocre. It isn't. I am really enjoying it, and the anticipation of the upcoming episodes is just making the thought of the end of this series all that much worse.

That's my biggest problem. S9 was pretty bad IMO, but S10 is getting SG-1 back on it's track and it's doing that. Even if this wasn't the best ep ever, it made more sense (story wise) then many S9 eps. I liked how they showed Vala (and CB did really great job)... also that Ancient treasure... hmmm..

This ep was good and would fit into longer arc very well (even if it's cheapo to make more nice explosions in some later ep). We got some background on Vala, we got some info on Trust (some pretty high Goa'uld on Earth), we have Vala/Daniel chemistry (i enjoyed Daniel explaining how that wasnt date)...

GRRRRRR.... they should really give us another season.

to mods :: sorry if i broke some rules, but consider that not a single ep of any SG show EVER aired in my country. won't happen again.

nccjones
September 9th, 2006, 06:38 AM
I thought it was an ok episode.

The good points:

Daniel and Vala moments. I really liked how it's Daniel that understands Vala and believes in her. I also liked the not quite "shippy" moments...lol.

Great Vala episode. I don't think we really learned anything new about her in it, but we definately saw some great CB acting skills.

Bad points: (my list is a little longer)

Why was SG1 in civvies all the time? At least Sam and Mitchell should have been in uniform. Just because they are part of some TS program, they are still Air Force and should act as Air Force personnel. I mean, Sam still introduced herself as Lt Col Samantha Carter.

Also, what badges were they flashing around? Military ID's? Who cares? I have a military ID and it doesn't impress people. What did Michell flash when he "commandeered" the bike? The military ID again? That holds no weight at all. If I were that guy I'd definately be sueing his butt.

This leads to the Mitchell chase scene. Ok...he can ride a bike, but did he really have to do a wheely? And why couldn't they see during the screening that there was a Canadian town on the sign? I may be wrong since I don't live in Colorado, but is there a town called Surrey there? Maybe they could have photoshopped it and put Telluride or something like that on it. I don't know.

Cam in the hotel room all nekked and hairy. Eeeew. Shoulda been Daniel, but I understand it couldn't have been Daniel since he had to be the last person to see Vala since it's him who is able to make her remember. But the bike scene and hotel scene was another plot device for Mitchell to be the reckless hero once again.

Not the best SG1 episode, but I do understand they have to do "earthbound" episodes to save money. So not too bad.

2/5.

DEM
September 9th, 2006, 06:43 AM
From Gateworld's main page:

How would you rate "Memento Mori?"
10 - Outstanding 442 44 %
TOTAL VOTES: 1004
And yesterday I had dinner with Santa and the Tooth Faerie and we ate roast Easter bunny, but it didn't agree with me cuz afterward monkeys flew out my butt.

In other news: This was not a bottle episode. Bottle episodes don't have five off-site locations, car chases, and stunties popping wheelies. :rolleyes: The only thing bottley about this episode was the whisky and/or pill bottle the writers, director, and editor were hitting during production.

Zoser
September 9th, 2006, 06:44 AM
Surprisingly I don't despise Vala as much as I use to, that being said, I don't understand her being a member of SG-1. I didn't understand why she wasn't under lock and key in season 9.

I was sooo bored I wondered what kind of hair gel Daniel uses to make clumps of his hair so shiny and others look unwashed. And what's with the comb forward-do? Receding hair lines to cover? That's pathetic - thinking about the actors hair!

full.infinity
September 9th, 2006, 07:02 AM
My only comment....it would have been funnier if Vala had said she watched reruns of Farscape episodes instead of X-Files.
The X-Files joke is because this episode is the one in which SG-1 becomes longer than the X-Files.

full.infinity
September 9th, 2006, 07:15 AM
Think about the fact that you are a guy saying you didn't like "Emancipation". I disagree, but then I'm a woman.
Yeah, because gender is the only reason you would or wouldn't like an episode. I haven't seen Emancipation yet so I have no opinion on it, but my least favorite is "The Fifth Race" as it's the only one so far that has made me cringe(only good part there was his reaction to when he was talking in fake Latin and he didn't realize it) while this ep only felt sorta bland.

Hatusu
September 9th, 2006, 07:23 AM
...
Also on rewatching, I have to say I don't completely agree with CB's choice to make Vala seem so vulnerable. I guess it's meant to show how much she's changed since being part of the SGC, but such a transformation is hard to believe in such a short period, and I think it served to reduce the energy level of the episode versus how Vala usually livens things...
I agree. The last place I expected Vala to end up was as a waitress in a diner. Boriiiing. More likely she would have ended up running some scam, or if you wanted to be original scamming the Trust. It's another example of the inconsistancy in writing her character.

I don't think this episode was awful. I just think it had no imagination or style and it didn't move the story forward.

DEM
September 9th, 2006, 07:28 AM
For those of us who didn't get it :rolleyes:, this:

And yesterday I had dinner with Santa and the Tooth Faerie.... was a reference to unreliability & invalidity of GW's polls. It's been fairly obvious for some time now that someone has found a way to vote "10" over and over again. Frankly, I think it's a damn shame, but I'm a survey research geek, so.... *shrug*

suse
September 9th, 2006, 07:39 AM
I know this might be "nitpicky" - I'd call it major plot hole - but I thought Qutesh was removed from Vala by the Tok'Ra. I can see her having a bit of Naquada and memories of the her time as host, but the more than a smattering of genetic memories? I don't think so.

Also, if she was Qetesh's host as long ago as was implied by the dialogue she'd have aged quite rapidly after no longer being exposed to the sarcophagus on a regular basis. Remember Apophis in Serpent Song? The rapid aging? :rolleyes:

Perhaps not. Canon before S9 seems to have gone out the window.

Suse

KairezLightkeeper
September 9th, 2006, 07:39 AM
Landry sitting there looking like a fool most of the time. I hate to once again inject reality into things but the moment that somene mentions that two team members are going out on a date don't cha think the General should have said something???? Maybe pointed those two towards USAF interpersonal regs?? But then again cause this is last season I actually want to see all the rules broken and see V/D boink each other till their ears bleed. Go figure.I don't recall Daniel or Vala being in the USAF... Besides, it was Vala who brought up the word “date” in that scene, was it not? SG-1 member or not, I wouldn't trust everything she says. I seem to recall that she accused Woolsey of making sexual passes at her in “Morpheus” but they obviously didn't do anything about that.

The Trust is still smarter than the SGC, it seems... They removed her transmitter, something that just didn't seem to cross our minds when we had a bag full of Ba'als in “Insiders.”

Just a couple thoughts...

MB.Eddie
September 9th, 2006, 07:43 AM
Quite a good filler ep. Nice to see Vala getting her badges at the end, and becoming part of the team. Also good to see a bit more of the Trust too.

8/10

Next weeks ep looks awesome :cool:

KairezLightkeeper
September 9th, 2006, 07:49 AM
I know this might be "nitpicky" - I'd call it major plot hole - but I thought Qutesh was removed from Vala by the Tok'Ra. I can see her having a bit of Naquada and memories of the her time as host, but the more than a smattering of genetic memories? I don't think so.

Also, if she was Qetesh's host as long ago as was implied by the dialogue she'd have aged quite rapidly after no longer being exposed to the sarcophagus on a regular basis. Remember Apophis in Serpent Song? The rapid aging? :rolleyes:

Perhaps not. Canon before S9 seems to have gone out the window.

SuseIt has been shown that a symbiote's memories in a previous host can remain in the mind of a new host. It's how we found the Tok'ra from Samantha Carter's memories from Jolinar. She was able to remember their evacuation from their former base to their newer one despite the fact that she wasn't the host then.

If we back then, without fancy alien memory devices, could find that piece of info, who knows what the Trust could've found left in Vala's mind with a memory scanner.

If Vala was taken as host to Qetesh within her normal lifespan, only spending some years of her adult life as host, this would explain her not aging severely after the removal.

DEM
September 9th, 2006, 07:51 AM
I know this might be "nitpicky" - I'd call it major plot hole - but I thought Qutesh was removed from Vala by the Tok'Ra. I can see her having a bit of Naquada and memories of the her time as host, but the more than a smattering of genetic memories? I don't think so. <snip> Perhaps not. Canon before S9 seems to have gone out the window.Between Jack's Abyss saga and Vala's story since TPTB, I've given up trying to understand the mechanics of ex-host-dom. Seriously. Last year several people tried to reconcile all we've seen and, although they gave it a good go, I think it's simply not possible any longer. Soooo, don't worry your pretty little head over it, sistah. ;)

full.infinity
September 9th, 2006, 07:54 AM
Between Jack's Abyss saga and Vala's story since TPTB, I've given up trying to understand the mechanics of ex-host-dom. Seriously. Last year several people tried to reconcile all we've seen and, although they gave it a good go, I think it's simply not possible any longer. Soooo, don't worry your pretty little head over it, sistah. ;)
I don't think Jack had Canan anywhere near as long as Vala was Qetesh.

suse
September 9th, 2006, 07:55 AM
The X-Files joke is because this episode is the one in which SG-1 becomes longer than the X-Files.
Good catch! I didn'r know that!

Suse

suse
September 9th, 2006, 07:59 AM
I agree. The last place I expected Vala to end up was as a waitress in a diner. Boriiiing. More likely she would have ended up running some scam, or if you wanted to be original scamming the Trust. It's another example of the inconsistancy in writing her character.

I don't think this episode was awful. I just think it had no imagination or style and it didn't move the story forward.


You're right. At the same time (IMO) the goal of this ep was to make Vala more likable to those who have issues with the character. I'm trying to forget Valas roots. And this ep helped. But not if I think about it too closely.

And if she ran a scam how would Landry work in that she is ready to be part of the team? Personally I think it's too soon to trust her that far. But that's normal writing these days, so... :S

Suse

suse
September 9th, 2006, 08:04 AM
It has been shown that a symbiote's memories in a previous host can remain in the mind of a new host. It's how we found the Tok'ra from Samantha Carter's memories from Jolinar. She was able to remember their evacuation from their former base to their newer one despite the fact that she wasn't the host then.

If we back then, without fancy alien memory devices, could find that piece of info, who knows what the Trust could've found left in Vala's mind with a memory scanner.

If Vala was taken as host to Qetesh within her normal lifespan, only spending some years of her adult life as host, this would explain her not aging severely after the removal.

Jolinar died and was absorbed ick by Sam. Qetesh was removed. What genetic memory was there? :confused:

As I said, it was implied by the dialogue that Vala was the host oh so long ago.

Suse

Maxum
September 9th, 2006, 08:05 AM
I liked it. Hey, it's SG1 for crying out loud. Like marriage, there are good times and bad times, but when you step back and look at the big picture, it's all about the love affair. I'm in love with SG1. I'll happily take whatever they give me and be grateful. I'm not going to tear apart every episode and examine each thread for a yea or nay, and I'm certainly not gonna use one episode to decide if I'm gonna bother watching the next. Gimme more SG1, that's all I ask. Keep it coming. Earthbound, in space, this ship, that ship, heroics, jokes, aliens, too much Cam, not enough Jack- just gimme gimme gimme. I'm in this for the long haul...

Best Post Ever!

I completely concur. The only thing upsetting me now is that I have to wait six more days for the next episode. Of course, waiting SIX MONTHS for the next mid-season episodes is going to be absolute torture. Hopefully, we'll hear some news from MGM as to what's next.

DEM
September 9th, 2006, 08:05 AM
I don't think Jack had Canan anywhere near as long as Vala was Qetesh.And yet he had Kanan a heck of a lot longer than Carter had Jolinar.

siXbrownSnakes2
September 9th, 2006, 08:07 AM
Best part of the episode was the previews for next week.

Okay, the cam/vala scenes were good and the end was nice. I also agree that Malozzi/Mullie have been writing poorly. All these episodes where we get teams lined up on the edge of warehouses then throw a grenade and storm in are always bad episodes (although it happened in S8 more).

4/10.

AGateFan
September 9th, 2006, 08:08 AM
For those of us who didn't get it :rolleyes:, this:
was a reference to unreliability & invalidity of GW's polls. It's been fairly obvious for some time now that someone has found a way to vote "10" over and over again. Frankly, I think it's a damn shame, but I'm a survey research geek, so.... *shrug*
Actually 44% is not to great for night one on Gateworld. Normally it starts at 60-70 and then kind of levels off overtime when regular people start voting. Atlantis was at 70 last night but is now at 62. So I am not sure that people are cheating the vote as much as I used to be. Its just anyone that takes the time to come to this site is likely to vote high.

gategirl700
September 9th, 2006, 08:11 AM
[B]I thought this was a good episode! IT was about Vala, and i think she diserved a episode about her! (:

SGalisa
September 9th, 2006, 08:13 AM
Well, now we know who Ba'al's mysterious blonde girlfriend is... :)

The part with the opening sequence with the gun twirling and putting the bad guys down, and Vala saying she didn't know how or why she was able to do what she did - reminded me of "The Bourne Idenity" (the one with Richard Chamberlain in the starring role as Bourne). Except perhaps this being a female version with a few extra twists...

..and doubles! by golly, Sam's stunt double? and thought maybe one of the Ba'al doubles was in the cars in search of Vala... ;)

The ending was very touching and probably the 2nd time Daniel has compassionately held a shaky, watery-eyed Vala in his arms. Reminiscent of
Avalon, part 2, after Vala got burned and came back via the Prior's *wonder* staff.

The ending with Vala getting the patches, does that now mean that a majority of the viewers have also accepted her as well? It just seems so unfair to both Claudia and Ben (B.) that their time with the team is going to be so short-lived now that SG-1 is being forced off Sci-Fi. :(

suse
September 9th, 2006, 08:19 AM
Actually 44% is not to great for night one on Gateworld. Normally it starts at 60-70 and then kind of levels off overtime when regular people start voting. Atlantis was at 70 last night but is now at 62. So I am not sure that people are cheating the vote as much as I used to be. Its just anyone that takes the time to come to this site is likely to vote high.


And then there are people like me who can't decide what to vote for it. Claudia was great as amnesiac Vala. There were some funny one-liners. But the plot was terrible and the car chase/taking down the robbers/stip Mitchell naked was hideous.

I was prettiy impressed that I made it thru a whole ep without wantingt o throw Vala or coveres eyes Mitchell into a black hole.

It's not in the terrible range because CB did a greatgreatgreat job acting. But everything else? :eek: It's not as bad as the stuff I've given a 4 but it's nowhere near even slightly better than average. :S

So I haven't voted.

Suse

Maxum
September 9th, 2006, 08:26 AM
*mod snip*It does sound like a "one for the ladies" episode but it cant be spaceships and explosions every week.
you yanks dont know how frellin lucky you are having it aired first.......and yet most of you still whinge........
sad.

First of all, don't go lumping us "Yanks" into one basket;

Second, most of the posts are actually positive about the episode. They range from average to good to great with some terrible thrown in there; and

Third, as a lady myself, I did enjoy the Daniel/Vala and Cam/Vala scenes, but I can be as picky as anyone else. With regard to this episode, I thought it was good, not great, but good.

Maxum
September 9th, 2006, 08:30 AM
That's my biggest problem. S9 was pretty bad IMO, but S10 is getting SG-1 back on it's track and it's doing that. Even if this wasn't the best ep ever, it made more sense (story wise) then many S9 eps. I liked how they showed Vala (and CB did really great job)... also that Ancient treasure... hmmm..

Really? I didn't think Season 9 was bad at all. There were some fabulous episodes regarding the Ori and SG-1 in general, and frankly, I think Season 9 brought the return of SG-1 becoming more frightened of an enemy for the first time in a while. I guess what I'm saying is that I see more drama and angst as of Season 9 and 10.

easyease
September 9th, 2006, 08:52 AM
Best Post Ever!

I completely concur. The only thing upsetting me now is that I have to wait six more days for the next episode. Of course, waiting SIX MONTHS for the next mid-season episodes is going to be absolute torture. Hopefully, we'll hear some news from MGM as to what's next.
dont worry about that, us brits will make sure the show reaches its audience in less than 6 months........thanks to sky one

easyease
September 9th, 2006, 09:01 AM
First of all, don't go lumping us "Yanks" into one basket;

Second, most of the posts are actually positive about the episode. They range from average to good to great with some terrible thrown in there; and

Third, as a lady myself, I did enjoy the Daniel/Vala and Cam/Vala scenes, but I can be as picky as anyone else. With regard to this episode, I thought it was good, not great, but good.
sorry for over generalizing the situation, it is true that "you dont know what you got til its gone" and i feel a few of these miserable negative viewers will realise that soon enough. i didnt mean the term "yank" in a derogatory manner, just in the playful spirit the british and Americans have shared for decades.
As for the last point im a fairly sensitive fella and like a bit of romance almost as much as seeing an ori mothership blowing up.....;)

suse
September 9th, 2006, 09:16 AM
Really? I didn't think Season 9 was bad at all. There were some fabulous episodes regarding the Ori and SG-1 in general, and frankly, I think Season 9 brought the return of SG-1 becoming more frightened of an enemy for the first time in a while. I guess what I'm saying is that I see more drama and angst as of Season 9 and 10.

I saw more drama and angst in S9 also. :( Unfortuately it was mine. :S ;)

Suse

prion
September 9th, 2006, 09:22 AM
it was the first car crash...however those 3 peopel dying while vala doesn't have a scratch just doesnt' work. especially since she was unrestrained. the car wasn't damaged enough.

cam in bed was funny, the pants teasing was priceless, as was teal'c's interrogation

the rest? bad fanfic brought to life

plenty of screen time for vala's fans and the daniel/vala dynamic...plot wise??? and i would honestly say this no matter who the kidnapee was, it was bad. dull and boring
thus far, i've enjoyed the first 30 minutes of atlantis more than all of MM

The BEST part of the entire episode? Cam cuffed to the bed, eating junk food, when the calvary arrives. "It's not what it looks like" Bwahahahah! However, I'm tired of the same warehouse and trees, and it was, well, I've seen this plot before. Can't say where (it escapes me) but the handcuffed to bed scene was worth it ;)

http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c365/wraithfodder/camfluff.jpg

Yes, SGA was a lot better.

Racingtime
September 9th, 2006, 09:24 AM
Well I thought it was an okay episode but definitely not one of my favorites. Unlike some people however, even though Vala has grown on me (compared to how I felt when she first showed up anyway) that doesn't mean I want a Daniel/Vala romance. I still haven't seen Daniel liking her back in "that way" and nothing in this episode convinced me otherwise. I actually thought the scene in the warehouse was a nice moment however I didn't see any romantic feelings but instead I saw a caring friend reaching out to a hurting friend as we've seen SG-1 doing many times with each other throughout the years. I really hope that the writers concentrate more on Team interaction and the fact that they are all a family now and stop dwelling on these supposed sexual tension angles.

I did like the Sam and Mitchell interaction especially him protesting how "twice is not always".

Someone mentioned the editing of Mitchell on the bike and my brother actually commented last night that at first he thought the guy whose motorcycle it was just got mad and sped off before Mitchell could take it because of the way it was edited.

M.G.S
September 9th, 2006, 09:54 AM
Well truthfully I loved this episode. I see it as one of the better one's this season (so far). Some the action scenes really didn't work to well and there were some things that didn't make sense, but in a whole it was a fabulous episode. It had some adorable moments that made me smile and it had a few moments that made me sad. I give it 10/10.

But it could be true that I am biased since I am a Vala and Vala/Daniel fan.
:vala: :daniel: :vala:

Nightspore
September 9th, 2006, 09:56 AM
I don't recall Daniel or Vala being in the USAF... Besides, it was Vala who brought up the word “date” in that scene, was it not? SG-1 member or not, I wouldn't trust everything she says. I seem to recall that she accused Woolsey of making sexual passes at her in “Morpheus” but they obviously didn't do anything about that.

The Trust is still smarter than the SGC, it seems... They removed her transmitter, something that just didn't seem to cross our minds when we had a bag full of Ba'als in “Insiders.”

Just a couple thoughts...

No, Vala Dala are not in the Air Force, but they are now members of the same team — a military unit under commandof the USAF/ The Air Force regulations that prevented Sam and Jack from ever acknowledging their feelings or getting together were put into effect to avoid favoritism as in one person perhaps choosing to save their "mates" life over others, or any romantic feelings or occurrences that may happen between Vala and Daniel are just as wrong as they were for Jack and Sam. I suspect, though, some of those who were against S/J ship due to the regulations now feel it is OK for V/D ship to occur.

Major Gambit
September 9th, 2006, 10:04 AM
WOOHOOO Vala's on SG1!!!

Hatusu
September 9th, 2006, 10:07 AM
Someone mentioned the editing of Mitchell on the bike and my brother actually commented last night that at first he thought the guy whose motorcycle it was just got mad and sped off before Mitchell could take it because of the way it was edited.
Interesting. I thought the same thing.

suse
September 9th, 2006, 10:11 AM
I'm sorry but I don't understand how someone can have issues with large parts of an ep but still find it outstanding. Ranked high if you still enjoyed it, sure. But outstanding? Outstanding should be reserved for truly stellar writing, directing, editting and acting. IMHO. We have one of four here. :confused:


I'm truly not picking on anyone here. I just don't get it.

Suse

full.infinity
September 9th, 2006, 10:33 AM
I'm sorry but I don't understand how someone can have issues with large parts of an ep but still find it outstanding. Ranked high if you still enjoyed it, sure. But outstanding? Outstanding should be reserved for truly stellar writing, directing, editting and acting. IMHO. We have one of four here. :confused:


I'm truly not picking on anyone here. I just don't get it.

Suse
I think that most of the people who ranked this a 10(I give it a 6) are the mirror of the ones who ranked "Pegasus Project" a 1(I gave that a 10).

valaCB
September 9th, 2006, 10:51 AM
The X-Files joke is because this episode is the one in which SG-1 becomes longer than the X-Files.
Also the man who torture Vala (Weaver) played Agent Pendrell in the XFiles
http://imdb.com/name/nm0067289/

rarocks24
September 9th, 2006, 10:54 AM
I want to see more of Athena.....a lot more of Athena.

duffarama
September 9th, 2006, 10:59 AM
it was the first car crash...
There was a car-crash in an earlier episode "Sight Unseen." :)

The Signal
September 9th, 2006, 11:25 AM
I want to congratulate TPTB for this episode, they really stunned me.

Somehow, they managed to pull it off. Unfortunately "it" in this case means "an episode worse than Emancipation and Affinity put together"

Bloody aweful, 42 or so minutes of my life I'm never going to get back.

2/10 - Worst Episode Ever.

LoneStar1836
September 9th, 2006, 11:26 AM
Aww, man I was soooo looking forward to this episode cause a while ago someone promised me a cool car chase in a future episode….;) :rolleyes:*

Ha! Shirtless and pantless Mitchell handcuffed to the bed was the highlight of the ep. Since the episode sucked, at least I could enjoy being shallow. :D And then when Carter walked in. LOL!

There were a couple of redeemable character moments (Teal'c the interrogator :D) but otherwise this episode was a bust. I hate that whole Trust arc.

*Just to make sure that we all know that smiley means sarcasm.


On the other hand I really enjoyed SGA’s episode so I’ll just say that here rather than waste a post over there saying "I really enjoyed it"….

LMichelle
September 9th, 2006, 11:40 AM
Mitchell shirtless and handcuffed to a bed. Now that's what I'm talkin' about! ;)

golfbooy
September 9th, 2006, 12:29 PM
Affinity Jr., thy name is Memento Mori.

Honestly, at what point does one become too embarrassed to put one's name on certain scripts? There wasn't even an attempt on the writer's part to elevate this one above the cliche-ridden, humor-dwelling depths of Stargate Hell. And sadly, like Affinity, this episode did indeed have some nicely done, significant, emotional character moments. They were, however, completely overshadowed and beaten to a bloody, unrecognizable pulp by the mediocrity of Memento Mori. This was so much like a bad 1980's cop show that I can't even get angry at it. Strike that. I think the Rockford Files was done in the eighties, and that puts Memento Mori to shame. If this is the best that Stargate can do, if this is all the effort that's going to go into the writing, then it's most assuredly time to flip the switch and shut the whole thing down.

Ugh. Not sure where to begin, I suppose it'll have to be at the start. Another poster recently commented, after rewatching some older episodes, that once upon a time the entire show managed to pack so much more into each episode, each hour of television. There used to be more plot, more for each character to do, more things for the viewer to think about. But that was then, and this is now. Memento Mori is the living embodiment of just how hollow Stargate SG-1 has become. Characters are ignored, with no dialogue and nary an appearance for vast chunks of the story, scenes are retold twice and thrice to fill up time, and innumerous guest characters (usually poorly acted ones) are given ridiculous prominence in episodes. Past events, allies, and relationships are glossed over with cursory mentions, and illogical actions and character interactions are the order of the day. Memento Mori has all of it, and some particularly poor plotting and editing, to boot. By the time the episode ended, I was more relieved than anything else--relieved because the characters all more or less escaped without irreparable damage being done to them.

To begin, and this is a bit of tangent, I suppose, the show has lost all credibility when it comes to realism and accurate portrayal of the world around us. TPTB wrapped up the Rogue NID/Trust plotline in season eight, to satisfactory effect. But it has been mangled and botched horribly since, reopened and muddled into such a gaping wound that even I (whose mind is awhirl with crazy) can't make heads or tails of it. You're telling me that there's a Goa'uld on Earth, we know where and who she is, and we don't care? We don't try to capture her? Really? Why not? And speaking of that Goa'uld, what the hell is she doing? From what was shown in the episode, apparently her deep, evil desire is to make as much money as possible, because, you know, dollars are the intergalactic currency of legend. Insider trading is the ambition of Athena? Really? And upon request Agent Barret (once supremely compromised but now A-OK NID Agent Extraordinaire) hands over a list of five, count 'em, five Trust safehouses. WTF? If we know about them, why don't we actually capture them? Isn't that Barrett's job, to take down the Trust?

And while on the subject of Athena, how hard or expensive could it possibly be to flange the voice of the actress? Personally, I found the dialogue she was given and the delivery to be the most basic, rote Evil Supervillain Riff imaginable. Athena wasn't menacing. She was sort of fluffy. At the very least having Athena speak with the Goa'uld voice might have made her seem more evil and hidden the bad acting. Ooh, and how about those Trust goons? They were so cold-hearted, so exquisitely dressed, so metrosexually intimidating. Fabulous, I tell you. Just fabulous (fabulously cliche, that is). At least in previous seasons' Trust/NID episodes the organization had a defined goal they were working towards. Operatives' distasteful actions were tempered by their belief in the righteousness of their actions. In Endgame, the Trust was at least ruthlessly working to defend Earth. In Touchstone and Shades of Grey alien technology was the order of the day. Yet now, and since season nine, the writers have purposefully refused to provide motivations for the Goa'uld-run Trust operating on Earth. Why was Ba'al there running a multimillion dollar company? Why is Athena doing the same thing now? Is Joe Mallozzi that convinced that the most nefarious, vile, and evil creature to be found on Earth is a businessman? Am I to believe that the Goa'uld have set their sights on conquering Earth and the rest of the galaxy by swindling enough money to buy it back? What tv show am I watching here?

As for the plot itself, I'll just let you all imagine what I might say concerning that old wandering amnesiac chestnut. Instead, let's talk about how a never before imagined Ancient device was introduced into the plot to motivate a few actions of the characters and then summarily erased from existence before the end of the second act. I'm not asking for genius level stuff here on New Stargate, just something that doesn't actively rebel against my senses. Why not try letting the characters actually motivate and decide the course of the story, rather than the other way around? And is it possible to include any more coincidences of timing to dictate the way things go? Is Fate so angry at the Tau'ri that it now confounds them at every turn? I feel like I'm watching some Classical myths with angry Gods playing with the lowly mortals. A cop car happens to ride past and see the wandering Vala? The Trust manages to reach the police station early enough to beat SG-1 there, but late enough to not make a clean getaway? The Trust make it to the warehouse (I know, there's too many warehouses, right? Here I mean the last one) in time to wreak havoc at the denouement (and I use that term loosely).

And, yes, I know I'm being what is bound to be considered too negative for these boards, but I found that super-exciting, wheelie-popping motorcycle chase to be dull. While Ben Browder was understandably usurped by a stunt driver, the editing for the exchange was clumsily handled. When mention was made of a car flip in the episode, I stupidly assumed that there was something or some reason for the car to flip over. Not so in Memento Mori. Here, I'm just going to go with the notion that the car was so angry at being included in this lame ass sequence that it decided to flip itself over in retaliation. Suicide is nobler than shame.

Right. No more. On to the characters, chief of which must be Vala. Also stupidly, I assumed that the purpose of this episode was to be a significant character piece for Vala and provide us with some backstory. It wasn't and it didn't. Memento Mori had all the emotional depth of a quickly evaporating puddle. We learn nothing about Vala's past life as a Goa'uld. We learn nothing about how those traumatic experiences have influenced her current life and decisions. We see nothing of Vala coming to terms with her own abandoment and trust issues, nothing of Vala coming to believe that the SGC is her home, that SG-1 is her family now. All we get is Vala wandering around in a stupor behaving all too humanlike to be believable as an alien with no memory stuck on Earth. In a handful of scenes in Thor's Hammer we learn more about the one-off character of Kendra than we learn about Vala in Memento Mori. Like others who have posted here, I am at a total loss as to what Vala did in this episode (or the previous eight for that matter) that has earned her a place on SG-1. Apparently the writers are sticking with the Mitchell Criteria of, "Shut up, she's on the team. Deal".

All that aside, Vala did have some very good scenes with Daniel. The last scene in the warehouse was well put together, and for once I felt like the oft-touted Daniel/Vala chemistry worked to do more than wind both characters up into a big ball of nothing. Claudia Black did an admirable job trying to work through some bad material, but there's only so many ways to play the broken amneisiac. Again, her reaction to Daniel in the last scene was her best stuff in the episode.

Mitchell came across as a little weird to me in this one. A blend of last season's action-man routine and this season's grim, bleak hoplessness, I thought Cameron here was just all over. He was subdued and morose in his scene with Daniel as well as uncharacteristically quiet and disengaged during the briefing scenes and interrogation bit. No doubt he rode that metallic steed like the Hero he is, but only to fail and be shot and captured? Followed by humiliated? I've never been a big fan of using the characters for a cheap laugh in the fashion Mitchell was used here. A funny scene or image is not worth cheapening a character's competency. And if the best the writers can come up with for poor Ben Browder is to strip him naked and have everyone laugh at him, well, that may be the biggest proof that the character is unnecessary. Perhaps he'll find better after SG-1 has ended.

Yay for Teal'c and his overwhelming coolness. Woefully ignored throughout this episode, in his one opportunity to shine Chris Judge again delivers. While the same, tired Jaffa interrogation joke lost its punch long ago, Judge still gives it all he's got. For sure there's no dialogue to match the menace Joe Mallozzi wanted Teal'c to convey. And thankfully, Chris Judge is huge, which helps mitigate a decided lack of attention on Teal'c in Memento Mori.

Kudos also go to Amanda Tapping for doing her damndest to try and make sure Carter didn't disappear. In the very little she had Carter was assertive and very much on top of things. Dare I say it, but if it weren't so muddled of a situation, I'd say she was in charge in this one. Then again, with stories like this one, who cares? As others have mentioned, the "losing your pants" dig at Mitchell was funny, but surely there was more for all of SG-1 to do in this episode then they wound up with. On the other hand, I'm actually grateful that Carter and Teal'c stayed as far away from the "meaty" parts of this episode as they did. It's probably much better for their characters in the long run if Joe Mallozzi doesn't "help" them develop.

I have mixed feelings on Daniel. Particularly, I have mixed feelings regarding his relationship with Vala. I like that Daniel seems to be forming a strong attachment to Vala. His character has been keeping himself emotionally detached for too long. But I'm unhappy with the writers' decision to portary Daniel himself as so confused by the burgeoning friendship/romance. I've never bought into the idea that Vala puts Daniel off his guard so much. Sorry, but he's too smart to be flummoxed so often. Being as introspective as Daniel is about everything, I don't believe that now, two years into his acquaintance with her, he still doesn't know how he feels about Vala. That said, I think Michael Shanks recently brought up his own frustration with Daniel's contsantly nebulous relationships. Overall in Memento Mori, I expected far more Daniel than there was. Certainly, he's the only other character who came close to getting some development here, but there was surprisingly little screentime for him. Telling the story more from the team's point of view would have helped the episode. But then we would have been robbed of all those cool asides with Athena, not to mention that uber cool car chase and flip. Tough choice?

In the end, Memento Mori was by far the worst episode so far this season. After seeing it, my only regret about the cancellation of SG-1 is that it didn't come in time to stop this monstrosity from being made. Things can only go uphill from here.

grasshopper64
September 9th, 2006, 12:41 PM
This was a forgettable episode for me and perhaps one of the worst ever.

Firstly they are seriously overkilling the Daniel/Vala thing, I didn't see the scenes between them as shippy, but I don't like the way TPTB are playing it so practically every scene Daniel has has to be with Vala or about Vala.
Enough of the Daniel/Vala show already! Let's stay away from any shipping and get back some TEAM interaction, preferably including Daniel......

Secondly the way Vala is now suddenly a member of SG1, it's all too easy, what exactly has she done to deserve it?
Has everyone at the SGC gone mad?
I though it was appropriate that Vala mentioned the X files as this ep pretty much felt like a bad xfiles ep.....
Most of it was pretty boring for me, the whole Trust thing just sends me to sleep.....

The good things about this ep (yes I did see some) I must admit I liked the Vala/Mitchell scenes, I laughed at Mitchell being handcuffed to the bed (call me shallow) and I liked Sam's joke to Mitchell about him losing his pants lol.

Overall I'd give it 3 out of 10.

gatebee
September 9th, 2006, 12:50 PM
My only comment....it would have been funnier if Vala had said she watched reruns of Farscape episodes instead of X-Files.
IMO funnier if she watching reruns of sg1

full.infinity
September 9th, 2006, 01:04 PM
IMO funnier if she watching reruns of sg1
Except that SG-1 doesn't exist in the SG-1 universe. Or else they wouldn't need Wormhole X-Treme.

DEM
September 9th, 2006, 01:07 PM
Brilliance, thy name is golfbooy.


When mention was made of a car flip in the episode, I stupidly assumed that there was something or some reason for the car to flip over. Not so in Memento Mori. Here, I'm just going to go with the notion that the car was so angry at being included in this lame ass sequence that it decided to flip itself over in retaliation.

*sniffle* I love ya, man!

Dani347
September 9th, 2006, 01:18 PM
Brilliance, thy name is golfbooy.



*sniffle* I love ya, man!


I'll write a longer response to golfbooy's post later, but I just want to say "ditto" here.

saberhagen83
September 9th, 2006, 01:21 PM
Well all I can say is that this was a very boring episode, one of the worst in a while I think. I think one of the few positive things from the entire ep was Carter's comment to Mitchell about his pants :D

It's been a slow season, and it just took a nosedive with this ep. My opinion of course. I'd give this one a 3/10.

Farscapefan
September 9th, 2006, 02:46 PM
Obviously these voting at the poll are completely different category of Gaters than some posting in this thread :D

EPISODE POLL RESULTS

How would you rate "Memento Mori?"

VOTES PERCENT GRAPH
1 - Terrible 53 3 %
2 20 1 %
3 22 1 %
4 39 2 %
5 - Fair 55 3 %
6 114 6 %
7 164 8 %
8 352 18 %
9 290 15 %
10 - Outstanding 830 43 %
TOTAL VOTES: 1939 ..

Descent
September 9th, 2006, 02:50 PM
Its usually that way for a lot of episodes, btw. Shows how many people are still enjoying the show.

CYBEREAGLE19
September 9th, 2006, 02:51 PM
I had my likes and dislikes, doesent every season have atleats one bad episode, I can prob go back and pick some from every season

CalmStorm
September 9th, 2006, 02:55 PM
Overall, there were some really great scenes, but not much more.

I loved the last few scenes where Daniel got through to Vala, and the the team moment where Vala got her little badges. Very nice. I am loving Vala's lines more and more...very clever, very funny, usually spot on accurate in her assessments.

I have to say, I did love Cam on the motorcycle...very, umm, ahh...oh yes...HOT :cameron: ....and three cheers for wearing the helmet ;)

However, all I will probably re-watch in this episode are those last scenes. Maybe, ocassionaly see the entire episode, but I have the feeling I will probably be skipping a good portion of the scenes in search for the rare good ones.

Side note: I'm a little put-off by every "abandoned" warehouse looking almost exactly the same.

scarimor
September 9th, 2006, 03:09 PM
Aw hell.

Claudia Black did great with the stuff she was given but this episode was a real waste of her talents. Dammit, they spend time having Athena (who is not remotely convincing) tell us all about her former alliance with Quetesh, so I was looking forward to some juicy Vala-Queteshness. Couldn't we have had just one little flashback of Vala doing something awesome as Quetesh?

Well, others have gone over how poorly executed this plot was. Claudia Black was excellent, but Vala deserved more than a bad version of something that's been done in fanfic more than once: bad guys (rogue NID/Trust) abduct ex-host (Sam/Vala) to extract memories from former symbiote (Jolinar/Quetesh) followed by amnaesia while SGC look for her. Fine, but the official TV version should be at least as ok as the fanficcy version, dontcha think?

*sigh* http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f30/scarimor/valabiggunanim.gif
Oh well. At least Vala was cool. Go CB!

Myn McGeek, Third Sentinel
September 9th, 2006, 03:10 PM
Geez, a lot of hate for this one spreading around so far. I didn't think it was bad. Not the best this season, but not bad at all. Actually, there were quite a few moments in this one I really enjoyed. I thought the team was great together, the bike chase scene was great, and I loved the way we saw how everyone has come to care for Vala.
Really. I liked it too. The main plot may have been weak, but other stuff like emotions, characters, humor, and all the little things I really liked. :) There were some dumb aspects for those who like to nitpick, but I over-all enjoyed it.

(The following was from a post I made in the anti-D/V 'ship [which translates to "I don't think it's realistic for those two, IMO" and not "I hate anyone who is pro-D/V 'ship"] thread. I posted it here because it turned out to be more about the episode than the theme of that thread... So, [WARNING!] to all D/V 'shippers and absolutely no disrespect meant :))

For people who had 'ship-glasses on, it was a very 'shippy episode, but for people who had their anti-'ship glasses on, it wasn't. :S As for me, I try not to wear any sort of glasses (except my never-hate-a-Stargate-episode glasses), so what I thought was that... I felt like the writers were trying to act like it was 'shippy by putting Daniel and Vala in a few pretty 'shippy scenes together, but the characters themselves didn't seem to act on it. What I mean is that, while their "date" was in a sense a little romantic (especially to Vala), their feelings didn't seem to be in the same mood. Vala thought it was pretty romantic, but I think she knew that Daniel didn't and I think she understood his reasons for taking her, but, none the less, she still teased him about it just for fun in her usual Vala-like way. Another reason why I feel like the writers are trying to push it but not completely throwing it on us is that the whole taking-her-out-to-dinner thing felt unrealistic to me. Why would Daniel do that instead of giving her a gift or doing some other thing to show his appreciation for what she's done? Either he chose that because he knew that she would like it best, or really deep down he actually does have those kind of feelings for her and he's just not admitting it to anyone, not even to himself. Both reasons could explain the way he was acting, so it's a little hard to tell what the writer was actually trying portray. It's the same thing with how he was acting later on, after she was kidnapped and why he seemed to be more concerned then anyone else. Either he was just feeling a little uncalled-for-guilt (which is very likely, knowing Daniel) for being the one who took her out in the first place and thus, to her being kidnapped, or he really cares for her more deeply than everyone else, as in, romantically. On the other hand, it could be that the writer of this episode was trying to keep you guessing or to just leave it up to your imagination, in which case, I choose to think that Daniel took Vala out because he knew she'd like it and that later on he was just feeling guilty for unintentionally and unknowingly leading her into the whole situation. :D

Now, about the end... hmmm. I think.. when it comes to Daniel and Vala the same previous reasoning probably applies, but all the "yeah, right" looks everyone gave Daniel when he said it wasn't really a "date" seemed to imply that what I said earlier - that Daniel really does have 'shippy feelings for Vala and just isn't admitting it to himself or anyone else - is really what's going on. But, it could also be that they just meant the yeah-rights as "yeah, right.. it wasn't a date. Uh huh." and not necessarily that they think that he does love her in that way, I dunno.

Now, all that was mostly about Daniel and Vala (<end of [WARNING!] space>). :o When it comes to teamyness (which is very important to me), I think they did a pretty good job. I felt that the team was together most of the time. When it comes to friendly and/or angsty feelings between team members, though, the episode may have been somewhat lacking... (besides when Cam was talking to Daniel in his office, after the stand-off, and the end) But, the episode was supposed to be mostly about Vala, anyway. So, I think they pretty much did OK with it.

So, over all I really liked this one. :) Vala was great! CB did a really good job, I totally felt for Vala most of the time and enjoyed the fun scenes. And the stand-off was awesome! MS and CB's acting was really good, I think that scene was really well done. And when Vala started to cry and then when she had just enough flashbacks to remember Daniel and was hugged by him, I was almost tearing up. :D I thought it was a really sweet scene, without being 'shippy. I liked that. :)

Another thing: the pants! :cameron08: + :sam43: = :lol: That was too funny! And the twinkie! lol

Ahem... I give it a 6.5/10 Just for my own entertainment it would've been closer to a 7.5/10, but for over-all quality it's a bit lower.

Zoser
September 9th, 2006, 03:18 PM
Brilliance, thy name is golfbooy.



*sniffle* I love ya, man!
To anyone who hasn't seen MM - don't waste your time read Golfbooy instead - much more entertaining.

Mr.Clark
September 9th, 2006, 03:53 PM
Meh. I guess if all the episodes were great, the bar would just keep getting higher.

Not bad overall. My main gripe was that Cam got on the bike to chase them.

Sam's the biker nut, why didn't she do it? Cam's just getting the action becuse he's Ben Browder? OK, so the bed scene would be... interesting, but I can't see her just standing there watching him zoom off to have fun.

I say again, meh. Not reason enough to end at the end of the season though :(

Piratejenna
September 9th, 2006, 04:06 PM
I liked this episode a lot, mainly because it gave Claudia Black a chance to show some of her extraordinary range as an actor. But it's also one of those episodes where I find myself rewriting many scenes in my head because I feel the writers missed several opportunities to make it something deeper. One of Stargate's biggest weaknesses is that it doesn't always trust the audience - it tends to spell things out on a rather simplistic level. And, something which, IMO, makes s.10 inferior to early s.9, is that the writers are unwilling to allow for any kind of character ambiguity.

The opening scene between Daniel and Vala in the restaurant isn't completely successful, for me, because it's a little too 'on the nose'. Daniel is unequivocal in stating his thanks to Vala for not letting him down etc. It's all very sincere and very sweet and... didn't do a think for me. I guess I'm just a jaded, hard-hearted cynic. MS couldn't do much else with the lines as written, but I'd have liked something a little more oblique. CB does her best to give it a little more edge by her non-committal reaction when he says 'refusing the temptation to fall back on your old ways', and I'm glad that she doesn't respond directly to Daniel - this is definitely a case where it is better to keep the relationship open and leave it to the perception of the audience.

I think it would have been much more interesting if both the audience and Daniel were unaware that Vala had been abducted. Instead of actually showing the abduction, Vala could have simply disappeared. That would then have opened the way for a real character debate over whether Vala could be trusted - had she simply taken the off-base opportunity to slip off on an enterprise of her own, or had something happened to her? I don't want to be told that Vala can be trusted. I want the question to be explored, and stay open as an ambiguous part of her nature. I'm not convinced that the team would universally trust her at this point in the arc. Cam would likely be a sceptic who believed Vala had given Daniel the slip. Teal'c, I think, would come down in Vala's favor for some Teal'c-ish reason such as 'she has her own sense of honor'. Sam would offer the rational female argument that Vala would never escape from a good meal until after the final course, especially if a rather fine chocolate gateaux were on offer. Daniel's instinct would still be to trust her, but he would be having doubts. Then everyone would realise that even if Vala could not be trusted completely, it's highly unlikely that she would run away from her 'date' with Daniel, thus recognising her bond with him. At that point they would all agree that something must have happened against Vala's will, and the investigation begins. But no, rather than actually explore the issue of trust, it's handed to the audience on a plate - no reason for Daniel to have any doubts because he knows, and we the audience know, exactly what has happened to her.

Meanwhile, Vala is in the Big Uncomfy Chair. This is a strong scene for Vala, and I love the fact they keep referencing her Goa'uld past. I'm not wild about the actor who plays Athena. One of the striking characteristics of Goa'uld System Lords is that they are all strikingly exotic in some way, but Athena is a very conventional beauty who speaks in a very conventional, American way. It might have helped to have flanged her voice, but generally, I think the casting for Athena and the Trust baddies was weak. But CB gives us a nice mix of scared and fiesty: "I'm very very angry. I'm going to kill both of you in the most painful way possible..." is delivered with a lovely mixture of helplessness and venom.

I think they could have done a lot more with Vala's memories/flashbacks. I may have missed something, but to me they looked like generic Goa'uldish footage of ships and Jaffa. It would have been better if they'd been personal to Vala. This was a big opportunity to fill a few of the blanks in Vala's past in an intriguing way that could have left the audience wanting to know more. For example, it always seems to me that the most indelibly traumatising memory of being a host must be seeing your own hand, wearing the ribbon device, reaching out to kill or torture someone you care about. It would have been cool to see Vala remembering something like that. Or possibly memories of being abused and spat at by her own people. I imagine that cost was a factor in the flashbacks. Still, at the very least, when she talks later of images that seem to come from a horror movie, it would have been nice to see a ring of fire, and perhaps the fiery Ori skull from Crusade, as a reminder to the audience of some of the horrors we know Vala has experienced.

I loved Vala's interaction with Sal the Owner of the diner. The moment when he confronts her, knowing she's not going to pay, is perfect pitch by both actors. Vala's reactions start from the point of simple honesty, which, because it's Vala, is a bit special. Later in the show, she starts to rediscover some of her guile, but at this particular moment, she has nothing. CB has had great fun with playing Vala big and OTT in some episodes, but here she really shows her gift for underplaying: "I was lost, hungry and drawn to the...delightful aroma of the blue plate special..."

I also loved Vala's interaction with Ryan the Cop which was also pitch perfect by both (and 'To-Dad' was a nice homage to The Usual Suspects). Again, CB finds a certain quirky, unique way to deliver simple lines which makes them both touching and funny: "I'd rather stay here. If you need me to commit a crime I'd be happy to oblige."

The other 'partner' in making the episode work on a character level is obviously Daniel, and MS does a lovely job with the low-key angst. The gang also gets enough fun and games chasing the bad guys for it to feel very much like a team episode. I don't quite understand why they went for the complicated rigmarole of SG-1 entering one warehouse only for it to be a bait and switch because Vala is actually in another place which is being stormed by SG-15. I think this actually points to another weakness of s.10, which is a reluctance to allow SG-1 to fail. It's the same kind of thinking which led to Sam's 'absolution' in Insiders rather than a more ambiguous ending.

I have no problem with Cam taking the motorbike, but felt the chase scene ran too long - too much visual action and not enough character action. (Admittedly, it should really have been Sam who took the motorbike - but that would have meant Sam handcuffed naked to the bed and, let's face it, TPTB just aren't quite ready to go there...) Cam and Vala was cute and fun.

The key character scene is obviously Daniel and Vala's face-off at the end. The writing is good - concise but full of insight into Vala's life - and MS and CB nail it. I wish the episode had ended there, after the pan across to reveal the rest of the team, perhaps with them all walking off together. I didn't need the cutesy tag. And to be honest, as a Vala fan, I don't need to see her become an official member of SG-1 - I always liked the idea that she was an outsider, and I'm a bit worried that they're losing that aspect way too soon.

So, on the whole, a good episode with some terrific acting by most of the cast. But - the weaknesses are typical Stargate weaknesses which have crept back into s.10 - unwillingness by writers (and directors and editors) to develop character depth and in particular to allow for ambiguity in the characters and their relationships, hokey stand-alone plot, and the need for a feel-good happy ending. I have a theory that there's a tension developing in s.10 which reflects a split in TPTB - between those who want SG-1 to be an instantly accessible, safe, non-controversial show, and others who believe the audience has grown more sophisticated since the early days, and want to take more risks in terms of characters and storylines. In s.9, the risk-takers won for the early part of the season. In s.10, the motto seems to be safety first. Which makes the ratings kind of ironic.

PG15
September 9th, 2006, 04:07 PM
All an around solid episode! I can definately see why some fans might dislike it, but I liked it a lot! It was different, yes, but there were several touching and funny moments, and just the right amount of Stargate-action to make this a good episode.

The points:

I'm not a shipper, but I have to say that those moments between Danny and Vala were pretty good, from the awkwardness of the not-a-date date, to the ending, to the hug (remember that Danny hugged her in Avalon too, it's basically what he does; comforting a friend after a traumatic event). It was heartwarming to see that Danny is still a nice guy after the crap he had to put up with in the last 10 years.

Claudia Black, WOW. I always liked her, and this episode just made that even clearer. It's nice that we got a little peek into her past (even if it meant she was awfully close to Apophis), and of course, the acting was phenomenal, especially at the end.

The chase. Gotta say, it reminded me of Matrix Reloaded. I had Mona Lisa Overdrive in my head during that scene. It was very nicely done by Browder (or whoever it was that doubled for him), and the shots were damn cool. They had a little hiccup with the sign for "Surrey" and "Ladner" that gave away where they're actually at, but to a non-Vancouverite, it wouldn't mean anything IMHO. Of course, the crash was well done as well.

The humor was there, in spades, but just enough to make this a normal episode, and not a comedy one. This one is about the characters. Sure, there were some action, but at the heart of the story is the team trying to find their lost comrade.

I liked how No-Memory Vala thought about how she doesn't want to remember given what she saw in those flashes, which shows that she knows what she did was wrong and horrible. She is a good person at heart, something I've known for a long time, but which this episode hammered home.

"You're always loosing your pants" :D Actually, that whole bed scene was damn funny.

I wonder what Teal'c whispered...maybe "Indeed" over and over again until it drove the guy nuts? ;)

Anyway, as I said, solid episode all around.

Score: 8/10


For those of us who didn't get it :rolleyes:, this:
was a reference to unreliability & invalidity of GW's polls. It's been fairly obvious for some time now that someone has found a way to vote "10" over and over again. Frankly, I think it's a damn shame, but I'm a survey research geek, so.... *shrug*

Can't be, since the numbers for "Excellent" are all different.

If you really want to know how some fans felt about it, look at the rest of the poll, i.e. the ratio of the two highest "peaks" (usually 8 and 10).

Fargater
September 9th, 2006, 04:42 PM
Okay, only read the first 3 pages, but I don`t feel like reading the whole thread just now. Haven`t even felt like coming here since the bad news, my heart just wasn`t in it, you know? But this ep made me want to come here again.

I LOVED this ep. Sure it may be a one-off, or maybe not. Some people are complaining that it doesn`t advance the story arc, but someone back on Page 3? made a comment that maybe there`s a tie-in with the Trust and the Ancient weapon? Sorry to Whoever that was for not crediting you directly, will have to look it up. . .

This ep had all the things that I watch Stargate for. Great team interaction and some LOL moments. Loved Teal`c`s handling of the prisoner, and like someone else said I`m glad we didn`t hear what he said. Made it all the better IMO. BTW, can anyone read lips? It shouldn`t be too hard to figure out what he said if you can. . . Never mind, I think it`s best left to our imaginations.

Was a great vehicle to showcase CB`s skills, and showed Vala`s survival instincts in full swing. She was observant, remembering about money and what being handed the bill meant after she ate, and seeing the detective paying, and did the Vala thing in trying to walk out. I thought she might try to steal someone else`s tip to pay. She sort of sweet-talked the diner owner, but was lucky in that he was a nice enough guy to help her. She was honest about being dishonest in an amusing and disarming way. Sal was pretty surprised when she said outright that she might not come back to pay. Some people complained that she wasn`t desperate or worried enough (forget exactly what they said) about her situation, but there is a time lapse of at least 2 weeks for her to figure out a way to survive and adjust for the moment, and she did say she was hoping she`d just remember in time, so it was explained well enough for me in the constraints of a 44-minute show. This is Survivor Vala after all, I think it would take a lot for her to really worry about her situation as long as she`s not in imminent danger of being killed. Two weeks isn`t very long really and she did pretty well for herself there getting a job and a place to stay and even access to X-Files reruns. :lol:

Loved the Daniel/Vala interaction, and how nonplussed he was during their non-date and later at the end when no one else wanted to hear his explanation. Loved that he was the one who made her memory click. Very appropriate. If someone wants to nitpick that there wasn`t really any tension in them aiming guns at each other, no, there wasn`t, but IMO it wasn`t about that. It was about when she`d let go and trust him and when things would start to click. Who else but Daniel to get that to happen? Good character stuff.

Liked usefully impulsive Mitchell commandeering the motorcycle when their vehicle was blocked. This was a great instance of his hotheadedness being good in that quick thinking was imperative to catch up to the bad guys. As for the people whining about the wheelie, I don`t know much about motorcycles, but if you`re in a hurry and you don`t know the vehicle isn`t it possible that you might give it too much juice while you`re trying to figure out the nuances of how it handles while simultaneously trying to catch up to someone you`re desperately trying to rescue when every second counts? Go Mitchell!

I`m not sure just why they decided to make Vala part of SG-1, and I agree that she didn`t do anything specific here to warrant it, but I don`t really care. Maybe what Daniel said to Mitchell about not giving her up for dead in the instance of the SuperGate he also said to Landry? Maybe they figured if they got her back from this they would make her a member because they thought after all she`d done she`d earned it, and they didn`t want to let it go any longer in case they should lose her for good in the next crisis? And who else to put her with but SG-1?

Also someone asked about the patches, don`t know if it was answered, but isn`t one shoulder the SGC patch and the other the SG-Number (in her case 1) patch? Teal`c and Mitchell each put one on her shoulders.

What else? Loved the hotel scenes, and Sam getting her digs in about Mitchell`s pants. Good character stuff. What the frell was that thing Vala was eating that looked like a Belgian waffle in a wrapper? The one the ingredients of which she was reading? Oh, and couldn`t Mitchell have tried a little bit harder to get away? That thin little piece of wood he was cuffed to? But then I guess maybe he was trying to get her trust and get her to turn him loose herself and he must have known they`d track him eventually anyway.

Only nitpick after reading someone else`s post is with rigging the warehouse to blow up if compromised. Like that person said wouldn`t it kill Vala too? Or was it more important to destroy the info of what Athena was trying to do than to save the source of the info she wanted?

TheUnknown
September 9th, 2006, 04:46 PM
And yet he had Kanan a heck of a lot longer than Carter had Jolinar.

Jack never fully blended with the Tok'Ra.

TheUnknown
September 9th, 2006, 04:48 PM
The X-Files joke is because this episode is the one in which SG-1 becomes longer than the X-Files.

No, next week's episode is where we overtake X-Files.

Fargater
September 9th, 2006, 05:15 PM
I liked this episode a lot, mainly because it gave Claudia Black a chance to show some of her extraordinary range as an actor. But it's also one of those episodes where I find myself rewriting many scenes in my head because I feel the writers missed several opportunities to make it something deeper. One of Stargate's biggest weaknesses is that it doesn't always trust the audience - it tends to spell things out on a rather simplistic level. And, something which, IMO, makes s.10 inferior to early s.9, is that the writers are unwilling to allow for any kind of character ambiguity.

The opening scene between Daniel and Vala in the restaurant isn't completely successful, for me, because it's a little too 'on the nose'. Daniel is unequivocal in stating his thanks to Vala for not letting him down etc. It's all very sincere and very sweet and... didn't do a think for me. I guess I'm just a jaded, hard-hearted cynic. MS couldn't do much else with the lines as written, but I'd have liked something a little more oblique. CB does her best to give it a little more edge by her non-committal reaction when he says 'refusing the temptation to fall back on your old ways', and I'm glad that she doesn't respond directly to Daniel - this is definitely a case where it is better to keep the relationship open and leave it to the perception of the audience.


I think it would have been much more interesting if both the audience and Daniel were unaware that Vala had been abducted. Instead of actually showing the abduction, Vala could have simply disappeared. That would then have opened the way for a real character debate over whether Vala could be trusted - had she simply taken the off-base opportunity to slip off on an enterprise of her own, or had something happened to her? I don't want to be told that Vala can be trusted. I want the question to be explored, and stay open as an ambiguous part of her nature. I'm not convinced that the team would universally trust her at this point in the arc. Cam would likely be a sceptic who believed Vala had given Daniel the slip. Teal'c, I think, would come down in Vala's favor for some Teal'c-ish reason such as 'she has her own sense of honor'. Sam would offer the rational female argument that Vala would never escape from a good meal until after the final course, especially if a rather fine chocolate gateaux were on offer. Daniel's instinct would still be to trust her, but he would be having doubts. Then everyone would realise that even if Vala could not be trusted completely, it's highly unlikely that she would run away from her 'date' with Daniel, thus recognising her bond with him. At that point they would all agree that something must have happened against Vala's will, and the investigation begins. But no, rather than actually explore the issue of trust, it's handed to the audience on a plate - no reason for Daniel to have any doubts because he knows, and we the audience know, exactly what has happened to her.
You raise some interesting ideas, and it might have been good to explore them, but I wonder how much time would have been needed to do them the way you suggest and do them justice. Maybe if they`d cut some of that chase sequence, eh? ;) But even then they`d have probably needed more time. I myself am at sixes and sevens about Vala. She`s certainly interesting as a character we didn`t know we could trust, but how long realistically could that continue? There has to come a time when they either trust her or get rid of her. I think at this point in their relationship (I mean Vala`s and SG-1`s), even if Daniel hadn`t known what had happened, he (and the others) would assume it wasn`t her doing.

Hey, just had a thought. Is it possible they were hinting that they weren`t sure about her when they were wondering why she hadn`t tried to get in touch with them after the raids and when someone had said he`d seen her leaving the warehouse? I can`t remember the dialogue, but was anyone saying anything to make us think they weren`t totally confident about her at that point?


Meanwhile, Vala is in the Big Uncomfy Chair. This is a strong scene for Vala, and I love the fact they keep referencing her Goa'uld past. I'm not wild about the actor who plays Athena. One of the striking characteristics of Goa'uld System Lords is that they are all strikingly exotic in some way, but Athena is a very conventional beauty who speaks in a very conventional, American way. It might have helped to have flanged her voice, but generally, I think the casting for Athena and the Trust baddies was weak. But CB gives us a nice mix of scared and fiesty: "I'm very very angry. I'm going to kill both of you in the most painful way possible..." is delivered with a lovely mixture of helplessness and venom.

I think they could have done a lot more with Vala's memories/flashbacks. I may have missed something, but to me they looked like generic Goa'uldish footage of ships and Jaffa. It would have been better if they'd been personal to Vala. This was a big opportunity to fill a few of the blanks in Vala's past in an intriguing way that could have left the audience wanting to know more. For example, it always seems to me that the most indelibly traumatising memory of being a host must be seeing your own hand, wearing the ribbon device, reaching out to kill or torture someone you care about. It would have been cool to see Vala remembering something like that. Or possibly memories of being abused and spat at by her own people. I imagine that cost was a factor in the flashbacks. Still, at the very least, when she talks later of images that seem to come from a horror movie, it would have been nice to see a ring of fire, and perhaps the fiery Ori skull from Crusade, as a reminder to the audience of some of the horrors we know Vala has experienced.
I was satisfied with the episode, but you make more interesting points here. I like the way you think. One flashback with the ribbon device would have been worth several of the Zat shot effects in the shootout later.


I loved Vala's interaction with Sal the Owner of the diner. The moment when he confronts her, knowing she's not going to pay, is perfect pitch by both actors. Vala's reactions start from the point of simple honesty, which, because it's Vala, is a bit special. Later in the show, she starts to rediscover some of her guile, but at this particular moment, she has nothing. CB has had great fun with playing Vala big and OTT in some episodes, but here she really shows her gift for underplaying: "I was lost, hungry and drawn to the...delightful aroma of the blue plate special..."

I also loved Vala's interaction with Ryan the Cop which was also pitch perfect by both (and 'To-Dad' was a nice homage to The Usual Suspects). Again, CB finds a certain quirky, unique way to deliver simple lines which makes them both touching and funny: "I'd rather stay here. If you need me to commit a crime I'd be happy to oblige."

The other 'partner' in making the episode work on a character level is obviously Daniel, and MS does a lovely job with the low-key angst. The gang also gets enough fun and games chasing the bad guys for it to feel very much like a team episode. I don't quite understand why they went for the complicated rigmarole of SG-1 entering one warehouse only for it to be a bait and switch because Vala is actually in another place which is being stormed by SG-15. I think this actually points to another weakness of s.10, which is a reluctance to allow SG-1 to fail. It's the same kind of thinking which led to Sam's 'absolution' in Insiders rather than a more ambiguous ending.

I have no problem with Cam taking the motorbike, but felt the chase scene ran too long - too much visual action and not enough character action. (Admittedly, it should really have been Sam who took the motorbike - but that would have meant Sam handcuffed naked to the bed and, let's face it, TPTB just aren't quite ready to go there...) Cam and Vala was cute and fun.

The key character scene is obviously Daniel and Vala's face-off at the end. The writing is good - concise but full of insight into Vala's life - and MS and CB nail it. I wish the episode had ended there, after the pan across to reveal the rest of the team, perhaps with them all walking off together. I didn't need the cutesy tag. And to be honest, as a Vala fan, I don't need to see her become an official member of SG-1 - I always liked the idea that she was an outsider, and I'm a bit worried that they're losing that aspect way too soon.

So, on the whole, a good episode with some terrific acting by most of the cast. But - the weaknesses are typical Stargate weaknesses which have crept back into s.10 - unwillingness by writers (and directors and editors) to develop character depth and in particular to allow for ambiguity in the characters and their relationships, hokey stand-alone plot, and the need for a feel-good happy ending. I have a theory that there's a tension developing in s.10 which reflects a split in TPTB - between those who want SG-1 to be an instantly accessible, safe, non-controversial show, and others who believe the audience has grown more sophisticated since the early days, and want to take more risks in terms of characters and storylines. In s.9, the risk-takers won for the early part of the season. In s.10, the motto seems to be safety first. Which makes the ratings kind of ironic.
Hmmmmm.

Myn McGeek, Third Sentinel
September 9th, 2006, 05:39 PM
All an around solid episode! I can definately see why some fans might dislike it, but I liked it a lot! It was different, yes, but there were several touching and funny moments, and just the right amount of Stargate-action to make this a good episode...
I agree, while it did have a few lame points, I really enjoyed it.


I wonder what Teal'c whispered...maybe "Indeed" over and over again until it drove the guy nuts? ;)
lol :indeed:

psumetguy2008
September 9th, 2006, 05:49 PM
It was a nice "break" episode...there is really only one big beef I had with it.

In the freeway motorcycle scene, they could have edited out the blatently obvious British Columbian freeway sign. I seriously doubt "Surrey" is a town in Colorado.

majorsal
September 9th, 2006, 05:51 PM
(snip)

I hate to once again inject reality into things but the moment that somene mentions that two team members are going out on a date don't cha think the General should have said something???? Maybe pointed those two towards USAF interpersonal regs??

uh, yeah. :mckay:

after YEARS of having the regs thrown in the face of the sam/jack shippers, it really slaps that suddenly they aren't such a big deal for another ship pair. :mad: it's also a bit disheartening to hear some folks say they didn't care for ship, but wouldn't mind daniel/vala... i know sam/jack's situation was very different, but that ship was first and *still* hasn't been resolved... k, i'll quit my whining. :( :(


((((( :love: )))))






sally :sam34:

PG15
September 9th, 2006, 06:05 PM
It was a nice "break" episode...there is really only one big beef I had with it.

In the freeway motorcycle scene, they could have edited out the blatently obvious British Columbian freeway sign. I seriously doubt "Surrey" is a town in Colorado.

But it is a town in England!

Uh...not helping much, am I? ;)

Seriously though, unless you're good with geography, you wouldn't recognize the problem. There's so many towns out there with the same names (Springfield anyone?), that it's not really a concern IMHO.

Just a little quirk that us Vancouverites can appreciate. :D

EDIT: majorsal, neither Danny nor Vala have ranks, so fraternization doesn't really matter...that much. Besides, Danny said it wasn't a date.

Traveler Enroute1
September 9th, 2006, 06:06 PM
Wow. Lots to say on this episode. I'll just jump in quickly.

This was a fair episode for me.
I liked:
1- Opening restaurant scene. Vala in civvies was cute. Daniel selecting a nice fancy eatery was sweet, as was his explanation for taking her out.

2- Claudia's great handling of Vala's situation. No piercing screams; plenty of in your face-ness, and touching admission to the diner owner. Vala was brave and vulnerable, a tough portrayal that Claudia pulled off.

3- A new Goa'uld on earth! Athena: ok. Missed the menacing voice effect but she seemed appropriately arrogant and not-nice. Interesting that she's introduced now; what's in store?

4- Teaser was funny, Val taking out two thugs and twirling a revolver. Go.

5- Sam teasing Mitchell was such a nice team touch. I thought she should have done this when Daniel materialized in the briefing room (Threads). She knew him so well I thought she could get away with teasing him instead of averting her eyes in embarrassment. Bra'tak seemed ok with his nudity. :).

6- Teal'c, the ultimate interrogator! I laughed, wondering what he could possibly have said to the prisoner to get him to talk! One good line is better than none!

Minor:
1- I couldn't help thinking this was a derivative of Sam's kidnapping, the diner with Daniel and Oma, and a Starsky and Hutch ep when Hutch was kidnapped and doped up (ok, or just some routine cop show. At least Sam's ex wasn't the cop!!). The waitress job seemed a redundant plot device; maybe if she'd been the cook...

2- Absence of Sam during the early scenes. Cam was dutifully present, but I thought Sam would definitely be there for him. Apparently she was, just offscreen until, well, until.

3- Sam is the one with the vaunted motorcycle fetish, but it's Cam who gets on the bike and wheelies/grandstands into a chase. Said car chase being a bit lame (where's O.J. when you need him). Missed op where Sam could actually help rescue Vala and then some on-screen bonding.

4-Then Vala takes matters into her own hands, a good thing. But crashing the car and being the only one uninjured because...?

5- Ok, the awarding of SG1 team patches to Vala. Too soon. I thought Sam was forcing the "you earned it" line and I'd agree somewhat. Doing it in this setting made it seem like the SGC just wanted to make her feel good after her ordeal, which forwarded their cause in no way at all. Let her earn her place on SG1 (show terminology here) after some action with the team, not because she was rescued by the team.

6- I would also think by now the SGC knows their communications are compromised; the fake Air Force officers showing up before SG1 was a big tip off if nothing else was.

Just sayin', infinite stock warehouses not withstanding, I rate the episode 8/10. Just giving credit to the possibilities here, even if missed. I thought the cast came through on their ends so points for them. A promising start that somehow fizzled a bit. My 5 cents. :)

Mitchell82
September 9th, 2006, 06:09 PM
Personally I loved it, but I'm a D/V Shipper, so I would LOL
Me too. Can I have your sig? Great ep I loved every bit especially when Vala kicked ass!

Mitchell82
September 9th, 2006, 06:13 PM
I liked it. Not bad for an Earth episode. Biggest let down was that CB and MJ had some good interaction going there, good character going, and then it went elsewhere and got superficial (i.e, off to the races of the main plot).

I was impressed by CB in the dinner scene. Not often she gets to radiate a little.

What was the first Cam-pants loss??
Oh i bet we will see more of that and i can't wait.

majorsal
September 9th, 2006, 06:19 PM
I think that most of the people who ranked this a 10(I give it a 6) are the mirror of the ones who ranked "Pegasus Project" a 1(I gave that a 10).

pegasus project is my least fave ep of the season so far, and i've thought both eps were fair. the only high rating i've given an ep is '200'. just saying.




sally :)

Mitchell82
September 9th, 2006, 06:21 PM
*mod snip* I must say that I abso-frellin-lutely LOVE this episode. Great character stuff. That's what I needed for a long time. Thanks M&M, great job :) And thank you CLAUDIA for brilliant performance.
ENCORE ENCORE! I agree 100%! Great writing great direction and great job by Claudia Black!

dmovies
September 9th, 2006, 06:22 PM
I want to congratulate TPTB for this episode, they really stunned me.

Somehow, they managed to pull it off. Unfortunately "it" in this case means "an episode worse than Emancipation and Affinity put together"

Bloody aweful, 42 or so minutes of my life I'm never going to get back.

2/10 - Worst Episode Ever.
It really was awful! I enjoyed the first 15 minutes of Atlantis with Carter than the whole Sg1 episode. No wonder Sg1 was cancelled.

Mitchell82
September 9th, 2006, 06:26 PM
The X-Files joke is because this episode is the one in which SG-1 becomes longer than the X-Files.
I am so thankfull that this season is wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy better than the last two of X-files. they sucked *** IMHO of course.:cool:

Mitchell82
September 9th, 2006, 06:27 PM
pegasus project is my least fave ep of the season so far, and i've thought both eps were fair. the only high rating i've given an ep is '200'. just saying.




sally :)
WTF! How can PP be your least fav?! I can't see a single thing you wouldn't like it was great!

Mitchell82
September 9th, 2006, 06:31 PM
I know this might be "nitpicky" - I'd call it major plot hole - but I thought Qutesh was removed from Vala by the Tok'Ra. I can see her having a bit of Naquada and memories of the her time as host, but the more than a smattering of genetic memories? I don't think so.

Also, if she was Qetesh's host as long ago as was implied by the dialogue she'd have aged quite rapidly after no longer being exposed to the sarcophagus on a regular basis. Remember Apophis in Serpent Song? The rapid aging? :rolleyes:

Perhaps not. Canon before S9 seems to have gone out the window.

Suse
Not necessarily. Remember(forgot her name) the woman from Thor's hammer? That Goa'uld was removed much more effectivly than the Tok'Ra's technique. She had all her memories. Vala was Quetesh's host for a while so it is likely she would have those memories and supressed them. No. Apophis was critically injured and his body was not only trying to heal him but maintain his life.

Mitchell82
September 9th, 2006, 06:37 PM
Really? I didn't think Season 9 was bad at all. There were some fabulous episodes regarding the Ori and SG-1 in general, and frankly, I think Season 9 brought the return of SG-1 becoming more frightened of an enemy for the first time in a while. I guess what I'm saying is that I see more drama and angst as of Season 9 and 10.
Indeed. I loved the previous seasons but when we had our victory in season 8 we needed a stronger more fearfull enemy. The Ori gave us that. I loved season 9 and am loving season 10 with one exception the 6 months hiatus!:tealcanime22: :weir44: :yuanime01: :sholva:

Agent_Dark
September 9th, 2006, 07:16 PM
Not necessarily. Remember(forgot her name) the woman from Thor's hammer? That Goa'uld was removed much more effectivly than the Tok'Ra's technique. She had all her memories. Vala was Quetesh's host for a while so it is likely she would have those memories and supressed them. No. Apophis was critically injured and his body was not only trying to heal him but maintain his life.
From what I understand, Thor's Hammer kills the symbiote inside the host.

prion
September 9th, 2006, 07:24 PM
uh, yeah. :mckay:

after YEARS of having the regs thrown in the face of the sam/jack shippers, it really slaps that suddenly they aren't such a big deal for another ship pair. :mad: it's also a bit disheartening to hear some folks say they didn't care for ship, but wouldn't mind daniel/vala... i know sam/jack's situation was very different, but that ship was first and *still* hasn't been resolved... k, i'll quit my whining. :( :(


just skimming up through the posts.

Sam and Jack are in the military. Neither Vala nor Daniel are. They can date or do whatever with whoever they want.

majorsal
September 9th, 2006, 07:55 PM
just skimming up through the posts.

Sam and Jack are in the military. Neither Vala nor Daniel are. They can date or do whatever with whoever they want.

while they're on the same team???




sally :)

DEM
September 9th, 2006, 07:57 PM
Actually, I think command would frown upon either Carter or Mitchell dating any of their civilian 'underlings', so it's not just about military vs. not, it's about conflicts of interest. And I think majorsal's instincts are correct here: Dating within your own unit seems to be treading a line. Just my gut reaction, based on what (relatively little) I know.

Fargater
September 9th, 2006, 08:24 PM
snip (again) because they keep saying it`s too long
To begin, and this is a bit of tangent, I suppose, the show has lost all credibility when it comes to realism and accurate portrayal of the world around us. TPTB wrapped up the Rogue NID/Trust plotline in season eight, to satisfactory effect. But it has been mangled and botched horribly since, reopened and muddled into such a gaping wound that even I (whose mind is awhirl with crazy) can't make heads or tails of it. You're telling me that there's a Goa'uld on Earth, we know where and who she is, and we don't care? We don't try to capture her? Really? Why not? And speaking of that Goa'uld, what the hell is she doing? From what was shown in the episode, apparently her deep, evil desire is to make as much money as possible, because, you know, dollars are the intergalactic currency of legend. Insider trading is the ambition of Athena? Really?
ROFLMAO
I missed most of Season 8 so don`t know the ins and outs of the Rogue NID thing, but if it`s been put to bed as you say it should stay there. As for the Goa`uld on Earth thing, well it seemed to me they didn`t really deal with the Ba`al situation either, that was left open-ended to be picked up again later. Or am I missing something there? Truthfully my eyes glaze over and I kind of stop paying attention when they trot out all the Ba`als, and I can`t be bothered trying to keep track of whether or not this is the real one or just another clone. I thought in the ep where the bomb was the building they left it vague on purpose as to what became of Ba`al. Seemed like he was well on his way to becoming a big corporate celebrity. Did they answer that later, like in the ep where the clones were in space? Anyway I thought it was the same thing, they`re watching her too but not moving on her yet. Maybe if all she wants is insider trading they don`t think she`s that big a threat so they`re leaving her to it? ;)

And upon request Agent Barret (once supremely compromised but now A-OK NID Agent Extraordinaire) hands over a list of five, count 'em, five Trust safehouses. WTF? If we know about them, why don't we actually capture them? Isn't that Barrett's job, to take down the Trust?
Umm, errr, <<tries desperately to come up with reasonsexcuses for Barrett`s knowledge of 5 safehouses and also his return to grace>>
I got nothin`. Unless they were watching the safehouses and not planning to move on them just yet? Yeah. Right. :S

And while on the subject of Athena, how hard or expensive could it possibly be to flange the voice of the actress? Personally, I found the dialogue she was given and the delivery to be the most basic, rote Evil Supervillain Riff imaginable. Athena wasn't menacing. She was sort of fluffy. At the very least having Athena speak with the Goa'uld voice might have made her seem more evil and hidden the bad acting. Ooh, and how about those Trust goons? They were so cold-hearted, so exquisitely dressed, so metrosexually intimidating. Fabulous, I tell you. Just fabulous (fabulously cliche, that is). At least in previous seasons' Trust/NID episodes the organization had a defined goal they were working towards. Operatives' distasteful actions were tempered by their belief in the righteousness of their actions. In Endgame, the Trust was at least ruthlessly working to defend Earth. In Touchstone and Shades of Grey alien technology was the order of the day. Yet now, and since season nine, the writers have purposefully refused to provide motivations for the Goa'uld-run Trust operating on Earth. Why was Ba'al there running a multimillion dollar company? Why is Athena doing the same thing now? Is Joe Mallozzi that convinced that the most nefarious, vile, and evil creature to be found on Earth is a businessman? Am I to believe that the Goa'uld have set their sights on conquering Earth and the rest of the galaxy by swindling enough money to buy it back? What tv show am I watching here?
ROFLMAO
Indeed. Very entertaining to read this.

As for the plot itself, I'll just let you all imagine what I might say concerning that old wandering amnesiac chestnut. Instead, let's talk about how a never before imagined Ancient device was introduced into the plot to motivate a few actions of the characters and then summarily erased from existence before the end of the second act. I'm not asking for genius level stuff here on New Stargate, just something that doesn't actively rebel against my senses. Why not try letting the characters actually motivate and decide the course of the story, rather than the other way around? And is it possible to include any more coincidences of timing to dictate the way things go? Is Fate so angry at the Tau'ri that it now confounds them at every turn? I feel like I'm watching some Classical myths with angry Gods playing with the lowly mortals. A cop car happens to ride past and see the wandering Vala?
Oh. I thought the cops were looking for her anyway and it wasn`t a coincidence and that was why she ducked out of sight asap. But now you have me thinking about it, it was amazing that the warehouse she happened to sneak into was the one where everything came together. Maybe that cop called it in that he had seen her there and the Trust was monitoring the police radio so knew where to go?

The Trust manages to reach the police station early enough to beat SG-1 there, but late enough to not make a clean getaway?
Hmm. Yeah. And they had to come up with fake Air Force uniforms too, and the real SG-1 was in civilian clothes. Eh, I can deal with that one.
unfortunate snip

Right. No more. On to the characters, chief of which must be Vala. Also stupidly, I assumed that the purpose of this episode was to be a significant character piece for Vala and provide us with some backstory. It wasn't and it didn't. Memento Mori had all the emotional depth of a quickly evaporating puddle. We learn nothing about Vala's past life as a Goa'uld. We learn nothing about how those traumatic experiences have influenced her current life and decisions. We see nothing of Vala coming to terms with her own abandoment and trust issues, nothing of Vala coming to believe that the SGC is her home, that SG-1 is her family now. All we get is Vala wandering around in a stupor behaving all too humanlike to be believable as an alien with no memory stuck on Earth. In a handful of scenes in Thor's Hammer we learn more about the one-off character of Kendra than we learn about Vala in Memento Mori. Like others who have posted here, I am at a total loss as to what Vala did in this episode (or the previous eight for that matter) that has earned her a place on SG-1. Apparently the writers are sticking with the Mitchell Criteria of, "Shut up, she's on the team. Deal".

All that aside, Vala did have some very good scenes with Daniel. The last scene in the warehouse was well put together, and for once I felt like the oft-touted Daniel/Vala chemistry worked to do more than wind both characters up into a big ball of nothing. Claudia Black did an admirable job trying to work through some bad material, but there's only so many ways to play the broken amneisiac. Again, her reaction to Daniel in the last scene was her best stuff in the episode.

Mitchell came across as a little weird to me in this one. A blend of last season's action-man routine and this season's grim, bleak hoplessness, I thought Cameron here was just all over. He was subdued and morose in his scene with Daniel as well as uncharacteristically quiet and disengaged during the briefing scenes and interrogation bit. No doubt he rode that metallic steed like the Hero he is, but only to fail and be shot and captured? Followed by humiliated? I've never been a big fan of using the characters for a cheap laugh in the fashion Mitchell was used here. A funny scene or image is not worth cheapening a character's competency. And if the best the writers can come up with for poor Ben Browder is to strip him naked and have everyone laugh at him, well, that may be the biggest proof that the character is unnecessary. Perhaps he'll find better after SG-1 has ended.
Aw, geez, golfbooy, now I feel all cheap and shallow for enjoying that hotel stuff. I already posted elsewhere about how Mitchell should`ve been able to get loose, but in searching for excuses came up with letting Vala think she had him in hopes he could jog her memory, and also knowing if they stayed put for a bit the others would be able to track them.


Yay for Teal'c and his overwhelming coolness. Woefully ignored throughout this episode, in his one opportunity to shine Chris Judge again delivers. While the same, tired Jaffa interrogation joke lost its punch long ago, Judge still gives it all he's got. For sure there's no dialogue to match the menace Joe Mallozzi wanted Teal'c to convey. And thankfully, Chris Judge is huge, which helps mitigate a decided lack of attention on Teal'c in Memento Mori.
You`re right, but Teal`c is so frequently ignored I just enjoyed what we got with the interrogation bit.


Kudos also go to Amanda Tapping for doing her damndest to try and make sure Carter didn't disappear. In the very little she had Carter was assertive and very much on top of things. Dare I say it, but if it weren't so muddled of a situation, I'd say she was in charge in this one. Then again, with stories like this one, who cares? As others have mentioned, the "losing your pants" dig at Mitchell was funny, but surely there was more for all of SG-1 to do in this episode then they wound up with. On the other hand, I'm actually grateful that Carter and Teal'c stayed as far away from the "meaty" parts of this episode as they did. It's probably much better for their characters in the long run if Joe Mallozzi doesn't "help" them develop.

I have mixed feelings on Daniel. Particularly, I have mixed feelings regarding his relationship with Vala. I like that Daniel seems to be forming a strong attachment to Vala. His character has been keeping himself emotionally detached for too long. But I'm unhappy with the writers' decision to portary Daniel himself as so confused by the burgeoning friendship/romance. I've never bought into the idea that Vala puts Daniel off his guard so much. Sorry, but he's too smart to be flummoxed so often. Being as introspective as Daniel is about everything, I don't believe that now, two years into his acquaintance with her, he still doesn't know how he feels about Vala. That said, I think Michael Shanks recently brought up his own frustration with Daniel's contsantly nebulous relationships. Overall in Memento Mori, I expected far more Daniel than there was. Certainly, he's the only other character who came close to getting some development here, but there was surprisingly little screentime for him. Telling the story more from the team's point of view would have helped the episode. But then we would have been robbed of all those cool asides with Athena, not to mention that uber cool car chase and flip. Tough choice?

In the end, Memento Mori was by far the worst episode so far this season. After seeing it, my only regret about the cancellation of SG-1 is that it didn't come in time to stop this monstrosity from being made. Things can only go uphill from here.
Wow. Even though I can`t agree with everything you say, I always love reading your commentary.

Fargater
September 9th, 2006, 08:29 PM
But it is a town in England!

Uh...not helping much, am I? ;)

Seriously though, unless you're good with geography, you wouldn't recognize the problem. There's so many towns out there with the same names (Springfield anyone?), that it's not really a concern IMHO.

Just a little quirk that us Vancouverites can appreciate. :D
Exactly. I didn`t have a problem with it. Heck, maybe there is a place called Surrey in Colorado. I thought it was cool that the sign was green, just like the road signs in the U.S. So you do the same in Vancouver, eh?

snarkydaniel
September 9th, 2006, 08:43 PM
I'm more of a lurker than a poster but there's so much negativity about this ep that I feel compelled to post just to help even things up :)
I loved this ep. It wasn't "the best ever" but it kept me entertained all the way through. The only weakness for me was the Gao'uld but she wasn't on screen long so I can brush her aside. There was some lovely team momments with Sam, Teal'c, Cam and Daniel all working together to individual moments between Cam and Daniel and Sam and Cam. Teal'c was (as someone else said) "The Man" :cool: . I enjoyed all the Vala stuff with all the original characters, esp Sal and Ryan, both of who were very well fleshed out (and acted) and made me want to see them both again, unusual for one-off characters.
Loved all the Daniel/Vala scenes. I'm generally a NORMO when it comes to SG1 but I wouldn't object if those two got together at the end of the season. I wouldn't want it to be a major plot point or anything, I want to watch SciFi not Soap, but Daniel's been on his own for a long time, I think he deserves some happiness and I think Vala deserves to br with someone who isn't trying to manipulate or use her and who she doesn't have to play games with. (I know that Vala has been a manipulator and user in her past relationships, bur her reaction to Daniel's openness, trust and lack of guile with her leads me to think that she's not experienced that with a man for a long time, if ever, which is partly why she's so taken with him IMO).

I thought this was a good, enjoyable episode with some great character moments. Not the best TPTB have ever produced but certainly not deserving all the derision and nit-picking that's been going on in this thread IMO, but to each their own ;) (I'm probably one of the few people who really dislikes "Heroes" so what do I know?) :D

PG15
September 9th, 2006, 08:50 PM
Exactly. I didn`t have a problem with it. Heck, maybe there is a place called Surrey in Colorado. I thought it was cool that the sign was green, just like the road signs in the U.S. So you do the same in Vancouver, eh?

Yep. But apparetly Oregon has brown/green signs.

Fargater
September 9th, 2006, 09:00 PM
Wow. Lots to say on this episode. I'll just jump in quickly.

This was a fair episode for me.
I liked:
1- Opening restaurant scene. Vala in civvies was cute. Daniel selecting a nice fancy eatery was sweet, as was his explanation for taking her out.

2- Claudia's great handling of Vala's situation. No piercing screams; plenty of in your face-ness, and touching admission to the diner owner. Vala was brave and vulnerable, a tough portrayal that Claudia pulled off.
With you so far. :)


3- A new Goa'uld on earth! Athena: ok. Missed the menacing voice effect but she seemed appropriately arrogant and not-nice. Interesting that she's introduced now; what's in store?


4- Teaser was funny, Val taking out two thugs and twirling a revolver. Go.

5- Sam teasing Mitchell was such a nice team touch. I thought she should have done this when Daniel materialized in the briefing room (Threads). She knew him so well I thought she could get away with teasing him instead of averting her eyes in embarrassment. Bra'tak seemed ok with his nudity. :).

6- Teal'c, the ultimate interrogator! I laughed, wondering what he could possibly have said to the prisoner to get him to talk! One good line is better than none!
Indeed!


Minor:
1- I couldn't help thinking this was a derivative of Sam's kidnapping, the diner with Daniel and Oma, and a Starsky and Hutch ep when Hutch was kidnapped and doped up (ok, or just some routine cop show. At least Sam's ex wasn't the cop!!). The waitress job seemed a redundant plot device; maybe if she'd been the cook...

2- Absence of Sam during the early scenes. Cam was dutifully present, but I thought Sam would definitely be there for him. Apparently she was, just offscreen until, well, until.

3- Sam is the one with the vaunted motorcycle fetish, but it's Cam who gets on the bike and wheelies/grandstands into a chase. Said car chase being a bit lame (where's O.J. when you need him). Missed op where Sam could actually help rescue Vala and then some on-screen bonding.
Didn`t know about Sam`s motorcycle fetish, but people here have made me aware of it. So it would have been more fair for her to get to do it. That said, it fit with Cam`s impulsiveness to just grab the motorcycle. They needed to get after them NOW, before they lost them. I didn`t think Cam was grandstanding. He has seconds to figure out this vehicle and how it handles while trying to catch up to Vala. Not inconceivable that he juiced it too much at first. But yeah the chase was a bit too long.

Also, it just occurred to me that Sam might have had a harder time getting a guy to give up his bike than another guy would. Unfortunate but true probably. Didn`t make a difference to the scene really, might have even been cool if she had to persuade the guy to do it, but time was of the essence so they couldn`t waste any with a thing like that. And then as someone else said, we wouldn`t have had the same kind of motel scene later. . .


4-Then Vala takes matters into her own hands, a good thing. But crashing the car and being the only one uninjured because...?
People keep saying that, but the guy that shot Cam wasn`t injured (or at least not too badly). He got out of the car all right anyway.


5- Ok, the awarding of SG1 team patches to Vala. Too soon. I thought Sam was forcing the "you earned it" line and I'd agree somewhat. Doing it in this setting made it seem like the SGC just wanted to make her feel good after her ordeal, which forwarded their cause in no way at all. Let her earn her place on SG1 (show terminology here) after some action with the team, not because she was rescued by the team.
Gotta agree with this. I keep trying to justify it by telling myself they were going to have to either let her in at some point or toss her, and with the season wearing on they decided to do it now before the next kidnapping/danger situation comes up and they lose her without having made her a member. Maybe they think she earned it from her help so far and didn`t want to let the chance to go by once they had her back safely?


6- I would also think by now the SGC knows their communications are compromised; the fake Air Force officers showing up before SG1 was a big tip off if nothing else was.

Just sayin', infinite stock warehouses not withstanding, I rate the episode 8/10. Just giving credit to the possibilities here, even if missed. I thought the cast came through on their ends so points for them. A promising start that somehow fizzled a bit. My 5 cents. :)

Fargater
September 9th, 2006, 09:03 PM
Yep. But apparetly Oregon has brown/green signs.
I live in Pennsylvania. Our highway signs are green with white lettering. Signs for special places like. . . state parks maybe? are brown.

Bear79
September 9th, 2006, 09:22 PM
Hi,

First post on this thread, hope I'm on topic.....

I thought this episode was great, it was really well put together in my opinion. Claudia Black is a great actress, and she showed it with this episode. But there was sure a lot of strange little things with the episode that really got me thinking...

1) When did the "Queer Eye" guys start dressing Daniel?

2) Vala's "beauty mark" on her cheek, did it move during the episode, or disappear by the end?

3). What was up with Ben Browder's ungodly chest hair? Did it remind anyone else of that movie "The 40 year old Virgin"?

Anyway, that's all, I have to say, it was one of the better episodes this season.

Bye!

Kliggins
September 9th, 2006, 09:45 PM
I want to congratulate TPTB for this episode, they really stunned me.

Somehow, they managed to pull it off. Unfortunately "it" in this case means "an episode worse than Emancipation and Affinity put together"

Bloody aweful, 42 or so minutes of my life I'm never going to get back.

2/10 - Worst Episode Ever.

Wow! Even I didn't think it was that bad. :eek:

Traveler Enroute1
September 9th, 2006, 10:28 PM
<<snips>>
Also, it just occurred to me that Sam might have had a harder time getting a guy to give up his bike than another guy would. Unfortunate but true probably. Didn`t make a difference to the scene really, might have even been cool if she had to persuade the guy to do it, but time was of the essence so they couldn`t waste any with a thing like that. And then as someone else said, we wouldn`t have had the same kind of motel scene later. . .
Sam wouldn't have too much of a problem persuading the guy! It would certainly have changed the scene, though. I'd be smiling and there probably wouldn't need to be a wheelie cause she's a biker. :) Oh, and yeah, there wouldn't be an ogle, um, bare chest, pantless scene. Hmm. ;)


Gotta agree with this. I keep trying to justify it by telling myself they were going to have to either let her in at some point or toss her, and with the season wearing on they decided to do it now before the next kidnapping/danger situation comes up and they lose her without having made her a member. Maybe they think she earned it from her help so far and didn`t want to let the chance to go by once they had her back safely?
I agree that Vala was always intended to be a member of SG1. I think I hoped it would come at a more defining moment for her and the team. I was just a little taken aback that it would be done this way, but hey, the suspense is over now.

Just sayin', yeah, I had to review the car scene and you're right, one bandit was able to climb out and get shot.

Watt
September 9th, 2006, 10:48 PM
Just to clarify we had this possible dating situation occur where I work which is a mix of civilians and military officers so I had to look it up.
It's forbidden under Air Force Instruction 36-2909 --PROFESSIONAL AND UNPROFESSIONAL RELATIONSHIPS civilian and military personel. The interaction should be professional and NOTHING ELSE!! Dates of a romantic nature particulary with team members civilian or otherwise such as in SG1 are definetly out.
I know it's probably going to annoy the shippers out there but there it is and please no trying to fine pick the regs.
I'm in favor of something happening with the V/D thing cause it's the end of a series..... but in the end if it make the USAF look bad by the V/D thing breaking regs then a complaint will be made through the official channels because the people I have served with mean a hell of a lot more to me than a soon to be ended TV series.
If you can get away with breaking the regs on TV then it makes the whole military forces look bad and presents a false reality. Don't forget this show is supposed to present a elite topsecret military unit and should be represented with some accuracy.
This V/D date thing? isn't on and that General should have stomped on it there and then.
For any of you that have really good memories of past Ep's (SG1) if you remember a little blond scientist (dunno her name) and scientist Jay? talking about dating the little blond said "we're not allowed to date inside of the SGC" or something like that. My point being that the writers do know about that regulation by mentioning it before.
BTW I have been shot right through the shin and I never blacked out dunno what the hell happened with Mitchell.

the fifth man
September 9th, 2006, 11:20 PM
Just got done watching this one again a few hours ago. As usual, I liked it even more upon viewing it again.:) For an Earth-based episode, I think it was really well done overall. IMO, there were a lot of great moments throughout it.

Watt
September 9th, 2006, 11:20 PM
http://www.defenselink.mil/specials/fraternization/
Uniquely Air Force
Air Force policy prohibits relationships between military personnel and CIVILIAN employees or contract personnel if it erodes good order and discipline.
What hasn't changed:
The Air Force continues to prohibit all unprofessional relationships which:
Prejudices good order and discipline
Discredits the armed services
Operates to the personal disgrace or dishonor of the officer involved
Air Force policy states the following:
Officers will not form personal relationships with enlisted members on or off duty
Fraternization applies to relationships between males, between females and between males and females
Fraternization is one form of an unprofessional relationship. Unprofessional relationships detract from the authority of superiors or create the appearance of favoritism, misuse of office or position or the abandonment of organizational goals for personal interests
Unprofessional relationships can be between officers, enlisted members, between officers and enlisted members and between military personnel and civilian employees or contract personnel. Of note.

warmbeachbrat
September 9th, 2006, 11:23 PM
I live in Pennsylvania. Our highway signs are green with white lettering. Signs for special places like. . . state parks maybe? are brown.

I believe that US Interstate highway signs are green, as are Canadian Interstate (um, Interprovincial?) highway signs. Different states may have different state highway signs--I assume Canadian provinces may be the same way. Does that make sense? I think National and State Parks (Monuments, Recreational Areas, etc.) in both countries are brown.

PG15
September 9th, 2006, 11:25 PM
So, as two civillians, Danny and Vala's "date" shouldn't matter, right?

(Wow, I think I just officially became a D/V shipper...that's a first)

the fifth man
September 9th, 2006, 11:42 PM
So, as two civillians, Danny and Vala's "date" shouldn't matter, right?

(Wow, I think I just officially became a D/V shipper...that's a first)

As Daniel would say, "It wasn't a date!":D I wonder if he's really trying to convince himself of that?

Mitchell82
September 9th, 2006, 11:47 PM
As Daniel would say, "It wasn't a date!":D I wonder if he's really trying to convince himself of that?
I think he likes her but is affraid to admit it.

valaCB
September 9th, 2006, 11:56 PM
ENCORE ENCORE! I agree 100%! Great writing great direction and great job by Claudia Black!
Agree :D
Amazing episode!

scarimor
September 10th, 2006, 02:07 AM
But it is a town in England!
Surrey is a county in England. :)

Farscapefan
September 10th, 2006, 03:00 AM
Have you read already TV Squad's review of Memento Mori episode? - http://www.tvsquad.com/2006/09/09/stargate-sg-1-momento-mori/

Farscapefan
September 10th, 2006, 03:03 AM
Besides, Danny said it wasn't a date.

Trying more to convince himself than the others :D

scarimor
September 10th, 2006, 03:05 AM
Sam and Jack are in the military. Neither Vala nor Daniel are. They can date or do whatever with whoever they want.
No they can't. Civilian personnel working within the military are subject to similar rules. The fraternization regs apply, and Daniel (and now Vala, since she's officially part of SG-1 as of this episode) are treated like military personnel in this case.

And to some extent (though I don't know if this applies to frat regs), even members of military personnel's families who are not working for the military can be subject to military judicial process - for example when personnel and their families are stationed abroad.

There is a difference between Jack/Sam and Vala/Daniel in that Jack was Sam's CO. Vala and Daniel are not in a superior/subordinate relationship. That's the only difference, though. They are on the same unit and that has a bearing on the matter.

The frat regs should have prevented Jack from socialising with Sam, Daniel and Teal'c equally while they were all in the same chain of command.

Farscapefan
September 10th, 2006, 03:08 AM
No they can't. Civilian personnel working within the military are subject to similar rules. The fraternization regs apply, and Daniel (and now Vala, since she's officially part of SG-1 as of this episode) can be court martialed just like other SGC personnel.

There is a difference between Jack/Sam and Vala/Daniel in that Jack was Sam's CO. Vala and Daniel are not in a superior/subordinate relationship. That's the only difference, though.

The frat regs should have prevented Jack from socialising with Sam, Daniel and Teal'c equally while they were all in the same chain of command.

Uhmm... it's just a TV show, and a science fiction one. Plus, Vala is not an Earth human, so Earth standards and regulations don't have to apply to her.

scarimor
September 10th, 2006, 03:14 AM
Uhmm... it's just a TV show, and a science fiction one.
I know that. The writers can choose to apply real-world rules as they see fit, provided they're consistent.

Plus, Vala is not an Earth human, so Earth standards and regulations don't have to apply to her.
Why not? Would she not be arrested by Colorado (USA, Earth) police if she committed theft or murder in Colorado (USA, Earth), do you think?

The Ori
September 10th, 2006, 04:47 AM
Hey man the flashbacks of Valas time as a Goa'uld looked cool, brings back memories, hopefully they'll delve into that!!

aRthuR1
September 10th, 2006, 04:57 AM
Yet another bad episode following Uninvited and 200... I give it a 4 just because Vala played her role very well. I hope this was the last bad episode this season :)

SG-25B11
September 10th, 2006, 05:02 AM
In my opinion, it's a science-fiction television show so I don't expect great anything when I watch it. However, this hasn't stopped me from enjoying every single episode of both Stargate SG-1 and Stargate Atlantis.
As for Vala now being a member of SG-1 at the end of the episode. Is this any different than Sam being promoted at the end of New Order. They both were captured by the enemy and then "rescued" by the rest of the team.
The chase scene was done right as far as I'm concerned. Mitchell just drove fast to catch up, Vala crawled out of the wrecked car. No grand standing, visibly affected (not a lot, but enough) by the crash.
It isn't impossible to become a member of SG-1, there just haven't been a lot of additions to the team this past ten years.

Ksenia
September 10th, 2006, 05:16 AM
Judging by the first couple pages, I'm in the minority, but I really enjoyed this episode. Loved the Vala/Daniel interaction, and Vala's time in the police station. Liked the moment between Vala and the detective as she pleaded not to let the others take her away. During the warehouse scene, I liked the zat blast down the beam.

I thought the Vala/Daniel scene at the end was done really well and it was quite sweet. Great episode for me.

mother-goose
September 10th, 2006, 05:31 AM
an alright ep with some good parts but again no ORI, wtf is going on, they uber bad guys and they are doing NOTHING about it or even mentioning it, god when it started out (SG1 that is) apophis was mentioned in almost every ep!

Goood chase scene though!

immhotep
September 10th, 2006, 07:12 AM
This episode was really good, it was totally different to how i imagined it and it felt different, like cooler than usual because of the chase scenes and the extra detail in all the characters. Like Sal and the detective guy and athena, loads of detail which was great.
All the team got used and their relationships grew alot in this episode, especially daniel and valas..the shippers can take away from this episode all they want but the last scene was classic!
I wanted Athena to be a ship and not a snake for all of the past 10 season so thats actually the only bad point i cna see. it was really good episode, both the CD episode have done great this week.

nccjones
September 10th, 2006, 07:50 AM
They had a little hiccup with the sign for "Surrey" and "Ladner" that gave away where they're actually at, but to a non-Vancouverite, it wouldn't mean anything IMHO.

Actually, as a non-Vancouverite and an American who knows the show is supposed to take place in the U.S, it was an obvious glare. First, American signs don't look like that (even though they are both green with white lettering, it's still very different). That was the first thing that hit me when I saw the sign...not what it said, but how it looked. It had a European look about it and I knew right away they weren't in the States. As far as bloopers go, this one was a huge one if not a humerous one.

Farscapefan
September 10th, 2006, 08:18 AM
Actually, as a non-Vancouverite and an American who knows the show is supposed to take place in the U.S, it was an obvious glare. First, American signs don't look like that (even though they are both green with white lettering, it's still very different). That was the first thing that hit me when I saw the sign...not what it said, but how it looked. It had a European look about it and I knew right away they weren't in the States. As far as bloopers go, this one was a huge one if not a humerous one.

Perhaps they'll correct this before DVD release.

chazevelt
September 10th, 2006, 09:22 AM
After watching it thru twice, I must have missed something. It never hit me that Mitchell passed out from a flesh wound. I just assumed Vala conked him over the head in order to handcuff him to the bed and take his clothes away without a battle. Of course if you want to put a stronger opponent on the defensive, you make him as insecure as possible- naked and handcuffed to the bed would be the best she could do under the circumstances. (It would also be the fastest and most effecient way to make sure he didn't have any hidden weapons, or access to something he could make use of. I bought the logic of it.) Interrogation tactics surfacing from a past she didn't remember. One of those 'givens' left to our imagination because of editing for time constraints? I didn't for a moment imagine Cam had passed out, especially since he did the driving. ...Or did I miss something crucial?
As for the Trust operative who was wheeling and dealing on the phone- I thot the writers were trying to impress upon me how powerful the Trust was becoming, and that their resources were growing by leaps and bounds while SG1 was off fighting the Ori. Even Sam said once something to the effect that who would have believed that Gou'ald on Earth would take a back seat to a greater threat.
As for Daniel and Vala- what I am getting from the last couple interactions is that Daniel- being Daniel- is trying to find something good in Vala, and, again being Daniel, help her to find the better person he thinks is buried deep inside. During the course of his self-appointed crusade, I think he's becoming attracted to the person he thinks she can become, and I think it bothers him that he is. He wants to 'help' her and finds himself becoming more involved than he wants to be. But we all know Daniel is a sucker for the underdog, and having a soft heart he falls in love way too easily. Vala is sexy. That has to affect any red-blooded male. I could picture Jack being interested in a romp, but not falling in love with her. I'm not sure Daniel can seperate the two feelings...
Then again, maybe I watch SG1 with a more open mind and open heart. I swallow everything they give me hook, line, and sinker because I love the characters, I love the premise, I love the very concept. I get from it what I want to get from it, and I can't find it in myself to tear any given episode apart to look for glitches and snags and plot holes... it's SG1 and I love it. Sure there are episodes I like more than others, but I have yet to watch one and say, "Ugh. That was terrible. I might stop watching." Never never never! Good, bad, funny, dramatic, character driven or team oriented, action packed or political back-story, Earth-bound or in space, Gou'ald or Ori- I eagerly await the next installment. What gives Stargate SG1 such longevity- and 10 seasons- is that we do get it all. What other series can offer such a diverse audience the type of episodes that appeals to so many individual tastes? And yet it does.... and has for 10 years now. So when a space ep airs and it's not your thing- give a nod to your fellow SG1 fans. And vice-versa. Ditto for the allusions to ship because there are those who want them. We've all got it all and I, for one, am grateful for the diverse talent that has kept it up for so very long... and with any luck, longer still!

Skydiver
September 10th, 2006, 09:23 AM
jsut a little highway road sign fyi

green is for directional, locations and the like. which town is so far away, which exit is which etc

blue is for services. which exits have gas stations and what they are, same with restaurants and hotels (and those places pay to have thier logos on that sign)

brown is for nature/recreational stuff. national parks, historical markers, general information

orange is warning for work zones, yellow are cautionary

there is a book called the MUTCD, manual of uniform traffic control devices, which regulates color, shape, size and font of signs

Canada follows the US standard pretty close - the biggest thing being that they're in kilometers and we're in miles

Skydiver
September 10th, 2006, 09:29 AM
Just to clarify we had this possible dating situation occur where I work which is a mix of civilians and military officers so I had to look it up.
It's forbidden under Air Force Instruction 36-2909 --PROFESSIONAL AND UNPROFESSIONAL RELATIONSHIPS civilian and military personel. The interaction should be professional and NOTHING ELSE!! Dates of a romantic nature particulary with team members civilian or otherwise such as in SG1 are definetly out.
I know it's probably going to annoy the shippers out there but there it is and please no trying to fine pick the regs.


yes, frat regs apply whether the people involved are civilian or military. as long as they're on the team, they have to follow the regs. and since aliens don't exist, there can be no exception for aliens. you don't get a freebie from the law since you were born on another planet.

if the regs prevented sam and jack for years, they SHOULD prevent daniel/vala. they're one and the same. (of course, now that sam and jack is no longer possible they need soem relationship to trot out for the soap opera aspect and i guess daniel/vala is their chosen ship of choice)

but, these boys now have hte habit of flouting the rules when it suits them and trotting them out when it suits them. yet another sign of disrespect that the writers of the show have for the military they used to be so fond of

Skydiver
September 10th, 2006, 09:32 AM
Actually, as a non-Vancouverite and an American who knows the show is supposed to take place in the U.S, it was an obvious glare. First, American signs don't look like that (even though they are both green with white lettering, it's still very different). That was the first thing that hit me when I saw the sign...not what it said, but how it looked. It had a European look about it and I knew right away they weren't in the States. As far as bloopers go, this one was a huge one if not a humerous one.
it was a huge blooper

years ago they used to take great care with the road signs. i remember in DM i think, where harry comes to jack at the gas station and they had colorado signs all over the place. they used to be most careful in maintaining the image that the show was in colorado (i think the biggest blooper in the past years was the big honkin container ship in the harbor that you can see behind daniel in The LIght...trust me on this, colorado springs does not have a harbor)

they used to care. now they dont' seem to and it's sad