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Suzotchka
September 10th, 2006, 10:19 AM
they used to care. now they dont' seem to and it's sad

I think that just about sums up seasons 10 (and 9 too). :(

keshou
September 10th, 2006, 10:33 AM
Disclaimers first. I'm not a huge fan of the NID/Trust earth-based episodes. No matter what permutation of characters or team they feature - Nightwalkers, Desperate Measures, Affinity, etc. all are in my bottom tier of episodes. They always seem like a poor man's version of the X-Files - and since I wasn't even a huge fan of the X-Files in its better days they don't appeal to me that much.

However, I accept that they have to keep the budget down and these type of episodes do provide the opportunity for some nice character moments if the writers are so inclined. Unfortunately this episode hit a few good notes but missed on some others.

The enjoyable:

CB as Vala: CB did a great job with what she had to work with. From gum-smacking "Flo the waitress" to tying up Ben Browder and teasing him with the twinkie to the scene with Daniel in the warehouse.

Daniel/Vala (I refuse to use the V/D shortcut...;) ) : Like golfbooy, it's nice to see Daniel getting some kind of emotional connection with a human being again. In spite of the teasing about it being "a date" I think the writers maybe be moving them towards supportive friendship instead of a romantic ship. I really can't see them becoming a romantic ship as long as they're members of the same team and frankly the writers kind of mucked up the S/J ship so it might be best to avoid another romantic connection between team members.

Mitchell in handcuffs: Yeah, I'm shallow but I thought the discovery of semi-nekkid Mitchell surrounded by junk food wrappers was funny. A little silly, but funny :cool:

Supporting characters: I really liked Sal and the guy who played the cop. A bit cliched perhaps but I liked them.

The bad:

Vala the vulnerable: When I first saw Vala in PU - aside from the eye-rolling sexual innuendo and catfight - I thought she was interesting as the ex-host space rogue adventuress. I suspected much of her bluster was a defense mechanism, but I think they've almost gone too far in turning her from the woman who managed to outwit the whole crew of the Prometheus (with nary a hangnail) to the girlish, vulnerable woman in pigtails. I realize they have to make her fit on the team but I don't know, it seems a little overdone at times.

No real backstory: I was hoping to see some of those flashbacks of the disturbing things Qetesh had done. They missed an opportunity to show us the things Vala was running *from* - thus diluting the impact of the speech Daniel made at the end where he talked about Vala "making a decision to stop running".

TJHooker hijinks: You know, car chases and shootouts I just find sort of tedious. And this one had more eye-rolling moments than most. From Vala emerging unscathed from the rolling car to the motorcycle wheelies. At the end during the warehouse shootout I kept thinking of the "Police Squad" movie where Leslie Nielson was shooting at the bad guy from behind a crate and then they pulled the camera back to show them about 2 feet apart. ;) :) ETA: I *did* like the scene where they used the zat charge to travel along the metal and knock the guy out. :)

The SG-1 patch: So getting kidnapped and losing your memory is the final test for getting on SG-1? Why did she need an official patch anyway. I liked the whole "on probation" thing and she was already on all the missions. :S

Sam & Teal'c, MIA: Although Teal'c's "interrogation" moment was fun.

Dull Villains: Almost forgot this one. Perhaps because they were so forgettable.

I liked Memento Mori more than some of the other NID/Trust episodes. Mainly because of CB's performance and some nice character moments. However I think "The Powers That Be" was head and shoulders above this one in giving insights into Vala's character.

Selmak88
September 10th, 2006, 10:36 AM
In my opinion the episode was great....I had a blast waching it.Vala is a verry sweet person.
And if this is to be the last season of stargate I just hope that people will look back ten year later and say : "Hey this TV show never gets old no matter how many times you wach it " :D but I realy hope that this show would go on for at least 5 years...:P

Myn McGeek, Third Sentinel
September 10th, 2006, 11:14 AM
I do have a few complaints about this episode, but I didn't feel it necessary to post them because everyone else allready has... except for my biggest complaint. This really applies to most season 10 episodes, but this one is a good example. A few people (including myself) have complaints on how Daniel's relationship with Vala seems to be taking up more time than his relationships with his FRIENDS OF 10 YEARS. He has had way more screen time alone with Vala than anyone else and, even when he is with the rest of SG-1, he seems to act all professional around them (I'm not saying that's Vala's fault).

This was posted in the Sam/Daniel 'ship thread:


It seems like Daniel is just disinterested in Sam (even as a friend), and you're right, it is pretty depressing. I was watching Space Race not too long ago, and it was so sweet the scenes they had together, with Daniel teasing Sam and all. Now we see that this season between Sam and Cam. I don't know why TPTB have to ruin such a good thing. I might give up on the show this season if it's just going to continue like this. I really miss the old days.
Now, I'm not a S/D 'shipper, but the all the characters' interaction and friendship with each other are the main reasons that SG-1 is one of my favorite shows, if not my very favorite! And I think the above post also applies to Daniel's relationship with Sam and Teal'c. If I care deeply about anything on this show, it's the Daniel/Sam/Teal'c (and Jack, before he left :() bond! And I'm not saying I don't like Cam and Vala, believe me, I really like them both a lot. I'm just saying that Daniel shouldn't spend all his screentime with any one person. Some time is OK, of course (so, this post isn't really an anti-'ship post), but as people have said many times, in the past, whenever any member of SG-1 was alone in an episode or when two were paired up they always balanced it out really well and had the whole team together for a good amount of time and a good deal of the time ended the episode with the team together.

Now, in this episode (MM) they did end with the everyone together and Vala joining the team, but for most of it, even when they were together, it didn't really show them interacting as good friends. It felt professional. Sam did joke around with Cam a little, and I liked that, but it feels to me like the writers are still trying to make us feel like Cam and Vala really are important to Sam, Daniel, and Teal'c... We KNOW they are! Like I said before, I really like both Cam and Vala and I know that the rest of SG-1 do too. So, I wish TPTB would stop trying to push it, since in doing so, I feel it's taking away from the very strong bond D, S, and T have had for a decade! And since this may be the last season of the entire series, I really, really, REALLY don't want to see them lose touch with the whole feeling of the show, the thing I admire most about it!

Now, I happen to know that I'm definitely not alone in this, as I've seen quite a few other people say it. I won't say that it's how all of the fans feel, but I think it might be the majority. While SG-1 has a lot to do with sci fi, ancient cultures, exploration, adventure, and even moral issures (and it's awesome because of all that), the most attracting aspect is the feeling of friendship, support between the characters, and team interaction and loyalty. TPTB can't let that die!

Sorry for the rant, but when I feel even somewhat passionate about anything I tend to do that... :o My main point is that, IMO, TPTB need to keep the team feeling and character interaction a huge part of every episode and to not let other things get in the way of the beautiful friendship between Sam, Daniel, Teal'c, and now Cam and Vala.

Who's with me? :D (maybe I'll copy this and make a thread about it, this turned out to be longer than I thought it'd be...)

Myn McGeek, Third Sentinel
September 10th, 2006, 11:22 AM
Daniel/Vala (I refuse to use the V/D shortcut...;) ) : Like golfbooy, it's nice to see Daniel getting some kind of emotional connection with a human being again. In spite of the teasing about it being "a date" I think the writers maybe be moving them towards supportive friendship instead of a romantic ship. I really can't see them becoming a romantic ship as long as they're members of the same team and frankly the writers kind of mucked up the S/J ship so it might be best to avoid another romantic connection between team members.
I pretty much agreed with everything you said. :) I like the way you explained the D/V (I don't refuse to use the shortcut :p)relationship, especially.

Farscapefan
September 10th, 2006, 11:23 AM
Who's with me? :D (maybe I'll copy this and make a thread about it, this turned out to be longer than I thought it'd be...)

Not me. I like it better this way as it is now. And I did saw some of previous seasons episodes.

PG15
September 10th, 2006, 11:43 AM
Surrey is a county in England. :)

I stand corrected. :)

I knew it had something to do with England though! :D

Uber
September 10th, 2006, 11:58 AM
Sorry for the rant, but when I feel even somewhat passionate about anything I tend to do that... :o My main point is that, IMO, TPTB need to keep the team feeling and character interaction a huge part of every episode and to not let other things get in the way of the beautiful friendship between Sam, Daniel, Teal'c, and now Cam and Vala.

Who's with me? :D (maybe I'll copy this and make a thread about it, this turned out to be longer than I thought it'd be...)w00t

You know, I miss the days of character-centric episodes where the rest of the team were fully involved. Think Fifth Man. Think Cor-Ai. Think Crystal Skull. Think In the Line of Duty. Clearly character-centric...and yet, each of the other members did a lot to contribute to the story.

I find it so telling that Mitchell rushes off and leaves the original three just standing there. Heck, they could have been arrested for loitering FCOL. These "action first" people have been relegated to the background to faciliate plot points that forward ONE character, regardless of the detriment to the TEAM...you know, the TEAM?!??

I can't add anything to what Golfbooy said because he said it so much better than I. I bow to your genius.

For me, Claudia Black never fails to deliver and I'm loving Vala more and more...but this episode was just a poor vehicle to forward her backstory/integration into the team. She deserved more...the team deserved more...and so did we.

DEM
September 10th, 2006, 11:58 AM
A few people (including myself) have complaints on how Daniel's relationship with Vala seems to be taking up more time than his relationships with his FRIENDS OF 10 YEARS.
<snips>
My main point is that, IMO, TPTB need to keep the team feeling and character interaction a huge part of every episode....I'm with you. :) (maybe not 'huge', but definitely more substantial than what we've been getting of late.)

Myn McGeek, Third Sentinel
September 10th, 2006, 12:11 PM
Not me. I like it better this way as it is now. And I did saw some of previous seasons episodes.
I see and that's fine. :) I did say that I know not everyone agrees. I think it's mostly fans who've been watching it for years who'll feel like me. And also, if you were a fan of Farscape before watching SG-1, then I can easily see how you can feel that way, seeing as BB and CB are only in the newer seasons (again, I love them and their characters both [in fact, I'm a minor Farscape fan too :D]). To each their own. :)

Myn McGeek, Third Sentinel
September 10th, 2006, 12:14 PM
w00t

I'm with you. (maybe not 'huge', but definitely more substantial than what we've been getting of late.)
Yay! I'm glad I'm not alone. :D

Racingtime
September 10th, 2006, 12:36 PM
So, I wish TPTB would stop trying to push it, since in doing so, I feel it's taking away from the very strong bond D, S, and T have had for a decade! And since this may be the last season of the entire series, I really, really, REALLY don't want to see them lose touch with the whole feeling of the show, the thing I admire most about it!

the most attracting aspect is the feeling of friendship, support between the characters, and team interaction and loyalty. TPTB can't let that die!

Who's with me? :D (maybe I'll copy this and make a thread about it, this turned out to be longer than I thought it'd be...)

Man, I wish I could just quote your entire post but instead just picked a couple of snippets from it. You've said so much of what I've been thinking. I agree 100% with everything that you wrote. This show has always been so strong in the friendship/team/family aspect and because of that, I don't really see the point of the romantic angle and I hate that it feels like it's taking away from the friendships they all have. I seriously miss the team interaction especially between Daniel, Sam, and Teal'c. GREAT post!! :D

Also I did want to comment on what everyone has been saying about the regulations. It's not as though the military has the "no dating" rule just to be mean. There is very important reasoning behind it so I don't know why Daniel and Vala would suddenly be excluded from that reasoning. A romance among teammates can easily negatively affect the team dynamic (including if there ends up being a bad break-up). There are even civilian organizations in the US that don't allow office dating and they don't even have to deal with life or death situations. I've seen some people comment about how it's just a show but this show has always been serious about the regulation aspect so I don't see how it would make sense for them to just stop now.

DEM
September 10th, 2006, 12:44 PM
You know, I miss the days of character-centric episodes where the rest of the team were fully involved. Think Fifth Man. Think Cor-Ai. Think Crystal Skull. Think In the Line of Duty. Clearly character-centric...and yet, each of the other members did a lot to contribute to the story.

I find it so telling that Mitchell rushes off and leaves the original three just standing there. [...] These "action first" people have been relegated to the background to faciliate plot points that forward ONE character, regardless of the detriment to the TEAM...I missed this the first time. Good job, Über. Honestly, I think the writers have just plain forgotten how to plot like that anymore. :S

DianaT17
September 10th, 2006, 02:17 PM
I LOVED the episode!! Vala and Mitchell in the Motel room? Priceless!!

And Daniel insisting it wasn't a date... so sweet. :)

kmiller1610
September 10th, 2006, 02:23 PM
I liked this episode. I thought Claudia Black showed why so many folks like her. The reason for her being voted into SG-1 has to be the decision of the other members. Clearly, her connection with the Ori and knowledge of many off world races are part of the reason. T'ealc became part of Sg-1 because O'Neil more or less insisted. Mitchell, same reason. I would guess that Daniel had pressed for it and the dinner was kind of related to that.

I like season 10 because the team is back in their uniforms, the stories are less high impact and have more of a normal feeling. Vala was handcuffed to the team in season 9. Now she's part of the team. Nice transition episode.

Traveler Enroute1
September 10th, 2006, 04:30 PM
<<snips>>
Then again, maybe I watch SG1 with a more open mind and open heart. I swallow everything they give me hook, line, and sinker because I love the characters, I love the premise, I love the very concept. I get from it what I want to get from it, and I can't find it in myself to tear any given episode apart to look for glitches and snags and plot holes... it's SG1 and I love it. Sure there are episodes I like more than others, but I have yet to watch one and say, "Ugh. That was terrible. I might stop watching." Never never never! Good, bad, funny, dramatic, character driven or team oriented, action packed or political back-story, Earth-bound or in space, Gou'ald or Ori- I eagerly await the next installment. What gives Stargate SG1 such longevity- and 10 seasons- is that we do get it all. What other series can offer such a diverse audience the type of episodes that appeals to so many individual tastes? And yet it does.... and has for 10 years now. So when a space ep airs and it's not your thing- give a nod to your fellow SG1 fans. And vice-versa. Ditto for the allusions to ship because there are those who want them. We've all got it all and I, for one, am grateful for the diverse talent that has kept it up for so very long... and with any luck, longer still!

Just sayin', love your thinking! Thumbs up or down, I'm looking forward to all episodes as long as they roll them out. 'Course I prefer a thumb's up, though. Nice post. :)

(On edit: I don't think most posts try to tear up or nitpick episodes. We really just like sharing what we think about the stories. MHO.)

Traveler Enroute1
September 10th, 2006, 04:38 PM
<<ships>>

Who's with me? :D (maybe I'll copy this and make a thread about it, this turned out to be longer than I thought it'd be...)

Just sayin', good points, Myn MacGeek, Third Sentinel. I thought Sam's absence early in the episode was a mistake given how close she is to Daniel. Maybe they'll fix it as the season progresses, and we'll get the ol' or a new SG1 gestalt again. ;)

Mitchell82
September 10th, 2006, 04:53 PM
Yet another bad episode following Uninvited and 200... I give it a 4 just because Vala played her role very well. I hope this was the last bad episode this season :)
Just curious what was bad about it for you as I really enjoyed it.

Mitchell82
September 10th, 2006, 04:58 PM
Not me. I like it better this way as it is now. And I did saw some of previous seasons episodes.
While I don't agree with your thoughts on the previous seasons I do agree that the show is getting alot better. I loved all the past seasons but for some reason I have been enjoying theese last two seasons alot more. As I said I really enjoyed the previous years but these last two seasons have really upped the anty and made this show as good as it ever has been mabey even better.

majorsal
September 10th, 2006, 05:03 PM
3). What was up with Ben Browder's ungodly chest hair? Did it remind anyone else of that movie "The 40 year old Virgin"?



okay, i've got to speak up about this... chest hair is sexy!! :D i like clean shaven chests too, but hairy is so... masculine... sexy... i'll stop now. :p





sally :)

majorsal
September 10th, 2006, 05:08 PM
Sam wouldn't have too much of a problem persuading the guy! It would certainly have changed the scene, though. I'd be smiling and there probably wouldn't need to be a wheelie cause she's a biker. :) Oh, and yeah, there wouldn't be an ogle, um, bare chest, pantless scene. Hmm. ;)

how do you know there wouldn't have? maybe vala would have declothed sam so she wouldn't have been anxious on trying to get away. and since vala didn't hit on mitchell in the room, that scene could have been played pretty much the same if it had been with sam instead.



sally :)

majorsal
September 10th, 2006, 05:22 PM
As for Vala now being a member of SG-1 at the end of the episode. Is this any different than Sam being promoted at the end of New Order. They both were captured by the enemy and then "rescued" by the rest of the team.


:S :jack_new_anime05: you're kidding, right?






sally :)

Jonzey
September 10th, 2006, 05:39 PM
I don't see a problem with Vala being made a team member now. Teal'c was made a member of Sg-1 after 2 episodes, and all he did was help the team escape and stop Kawalski. They knew nothing about his past and he didn't talk much, not to mention they knew nothing about the Goa'uld or their tactics (he could have been a plant). I don't see how you can say that's ok, but Vala (who saved everyone in Beachead, risked her life to get a message through in Crusade and has proved she can be trusted on numerous occasions) should not get it after two years working with Stargate Command.

But I guess Vala is new and therefore rubbish, while Teal'c is one of the originals and therefore flawless.

-Jules-
September 10th, 2006, 05:44 PM
It was defenitely a good mix of action, humor, and team spirit, but I thought the fast-paced theme made it too much like every other show on tv. I was a little dissappointed, but I really loved the team relationship in this episode. :)

Dani347
September 10th, 2006, 05:46 PM
I don't see a problem with Vala being made a team member now. Teal'c was made a member of Sg-1 after 2 episodes, and all he did was help the team escape and stop Kawalski. They knew nothing about his past and he didn't talk much, not to mention they knew nothing about the Goa'uld or their tactics (he could have been a plant). I don't see how you can say that's ok, but Vala (who saved everyone in Beachead, risked her life to get a message through in Crusade and has proved she can be trusted on numerous occasions) should not get it after two years working with Stargate Command.

But I guess Vala is new and therefore rubbish, while Teal'c is one of the originals and therefore flawless.


Well, yeah, if you want to generalize any objections. But, lets try to look at it another way, shall we? If the events in Beachhead and Crusade were enough to get her put on the team, why not make her a member at the beginning of season 10 (or before, if CB had been a regular cast member at the time?)? Why go through the probationary period if she had already proven herself? The way they wrote it, it seemed to me (and I wager to other people who commented) that there was something specific to the events of this episode that she did which earned her a place on the team. That, getting kidnapped and losing her memory are prime reasons for giving her a place.

Or, it could just be that she's new and rubbish. Sure.

Fargater
September 10th, 2006, 05:54 PM
BTW I have been shot right through the shin and I never blacked out dunno what the hell happened with Mitchell.
Yeah, that bothered me too, so I made an excuses for him. Well okay, a couple of possible excuses.

1) Deep wound, much blood loss. But then there are the nagging questions of just when he`d have blacked out and did Vala have to get him to the room unseen or did he black out after they got there.

2) He never blacked out, just fell asleep at some point (time lapse is unknown so it`s within the realm of extreme possibilities). Heavy sleeper or maybe blood-loss induced?


It`s possible she handcuffed him to the headboard as soon as they walked in.
Sure it`s a stretch but . . .

Descent
September 10th, 2006, 05:55 PM
I don't see a problem with Vala being made a team member now. Teal'c was made a member of Sg-1 after 2 episodes, and all he did was help the team escape and stop Kawalski. They knew nothing about his past and he didn't talk much, not to mention they knew nothing about the Goa'uld or their tactics (he could have been a plant). I don't see how you can say that's ok, but Vala (who saved everyone in Beachead, risked her life to get a message through in Crusade and has proved she can be trusted on numerous occasions) should not get it after two years working with Stargate Command.

But I guess Vala is new and therefore rubbish, while Teal'c is one of the originals and therefore flawless.

Kudos to you for raising a good point and changing my opinion about it. :zelenka25:

Jonzey
September 10th, 2006, 05:55 PM
Well, yeah, if you want to generalize any objections. But, lets try to look at it another way, shall we? If the events in Beachhead and Crusade were enough to get her put on the team, why not make her a member at the beginning of season 10 (or before, if CB had been a regular cast member at the time?)? Why go through the probationary period if she had already proven herself? The way they wrote it, it seemed to me (and I wager to other people who commented) that there was something specific to the events of this episode that she did which earned her a place on the team. That, getting kidnapped and losing her memory are prime reasons for giving her a place.

Or, it could just be that she's new and rubbish. Sure.
Well I reckon they could have put her on the team at the start, but that would piss off a lot of fans who don't like her character, so I think they were playing it safe.

And it didn't seem to me like it was given to her because of the events of the episode. I guess I just didn't read it like that. I saw it more like ''It's our first Vala-centric episode- we should do something to forward her story as a part of Sg-1''. I mean, apart from that bit, the episode was all throw-awayable. A very standalone episode. Now it's unlikely we'll ever see the Trust or Athena again (thanks to the cancellation).

Jonzey
September 10th, 2006, 05:56 PM
Kudos to you for raising a good point and changing my opinion about it. :zelenka25:
Hey, it's what I do :cool:

Fargater
September 10th, 2006, 06:00 PM
I believe that US Interstate highway signs are green, as are Canadian Interstate (um, Interprovincial?) highway signs. Different states may have different state highway signs--I assume Canadian provinces may be the same way. Does that make sense? I think National and State Parks (Monuments, Recreational Areas, etc.) in both countries are brown.
Thanks. Exactly! So it wasn`t a big deal to see a sign for Surrey even if there is no Surrey in Colorado. What would have been a big deal is if the sign was the wrong color, like purple or red. And luckily since the Canadian sign colors match ours, no worries, eh?

Fargater
September 10th, 2006, 06:05 PM
how do you know there wouldn't have? maybe vala would have declothed sam so she wouldn't have been anxious on trying to get away. and since vala didn't hit on mitchell in the room, that scene could have been played pretty much the same if it had been with sam instead.



sally :)
Yeah, you`re right, but I`m SO thankful we got a shirtless Mitchell instead of a shirtless Sam.

Descent
September 10th, 2006, 06:08 PM
Yeah, you`re right, but I`m SO thankful we got a shirtless Mitchell instead of a shirtless Sam.

You don't speak for all of us. :P

Fargater
September 10th, 2006, 06:32 PM
After watching it thru twice, I must have missed something. It never hit me that Mitchell passed out from a flesh wound. I just assumed Vala conked him over the head in order to handcuff him to the bed and take his clothes away without a battle. Of course if you want to put a stronger opponent on the defensive, you make him as insecure as possible- naked and handcuffed to the bed would be the best she could do under the circumstances. (It would also be the fastest and most effecient way to make sure he didn't have any hidden weapons, or access to something he could make use of. I bought the logic of it.) Interrogation tactics surfacing from a past she didn't remember. One of those 'givens' left to our imagination because of editing for time constraints? I didn't for a moment imagine Cam had passed out, especially since he did the driving. ...Or did I miss something crucial?
Ah, thanks! I forgot Excuse #3) She conks him on the head so he`s no trouble to handcuff. Nice ideas you have here.


As for the Trust operative who was wheeling and dealing on the phone- I thot the writers were trying to impress upon me how powerful the Trust was becoming, and that their resources were growing by leaps and bounds while SG1 was off fighting the Ori. Even Sam said once something to the effect that who would have believed that Gou'ald on Earth would take a back seat to a greater threat.
Thanks for this too. Actually when I could understand what the woman on the phone was saying it sounded like she was orchestrating the rise and fall of the value of the stock shares she was buying and selling.



As for Daniel and Vala- what I am getting from the last couple interactions is that Daniel- being Daniel- is trying to find something good in Vala, and, again being Daniel, help her to find the better person he thinks is buried deep inside. During the course of his self-appointed crusade, I think he's becoming attracted to the person he thinks she can become, and I think it bothers him that he is. He wants to 'help' her and finds himself becoming more involved than he wants to be. But we all know Daniel is a sucker for the underdog, and having a soft heart he falls in love way too easily. Vala is sexy. That has to affect any red-blooded male. I could picture Jack being interested in a romp, but not falling in love with her. I'm not sure Daniel can seperate the two feelings...
Then again, maybe I watch SG1 with a more open mind and open heart. I swallow everything they give me hook, line, and sinker because I love the characters, I love the premise, I love the very concept. I get from it what I want to get from it, and I can't find it in myself to tear any given episode apart to look for glitches and snags and plot holes... it's SG1 and I love it. Sure there are episodes I like more than others, but I have yet to watch one and say, "Ugh. That was terrible. I might stop watching." Never never never! Good, bad, funny, dramatic, character driven or team oriented, action packed or political back-story, Earth-bound or in space, Gou'ald or Ori- I eagerly await the next installment. What gives Stargate SG1 such longevity- and 10 seasons- is that we do get it all. What other series can offer such a diverse audience the type of episodes that appeals to so many individual tastes? And yet it does.... and has for 10 years now. So when a space ep airs and it's not your thing- give a nod to your fellow SG1 fans. And vice-versa. Ditto for the allusions to ship because there are those who want them. We've all got it all and I, for one, am grateful for the diverse talent that has kept it up for so very long... and with any luck, longer still!
Thanks for being a voice of undying support for the show. I`ve heard it said (or rather seen it posted) that people nitpick and complain because they really love a show, and the nitpicks are showing how much they love it by paying such close attention. I sort of feel that way too. BUT it`s possible to come off as sounding the opposite, as if one thinks the show`s so awful one seems like an idiot to keep watching. Your post was very refreshing and enjoyable to read after all the jaded commentary. So thanks! :)

Fargater
September 10th, 2006, 06:35 PM
You don't speak for all of us. :P
HAHAHAHAHA!!!!!
Nope, only shamefully and yet shamelessly (is it possible to feel both?) speaking for myself. :( :D

Fargater
September 10th, 2006, 06:43 PM
w00t

You know, I miss the days of character-centric episodes where the rest of the team were fully involved. Think Fifth Man. Think Cor-Ai. Think Crystal Skull. Think In the Line of Duty. Clearly character-centric...and yet, each of the other members did a lot to contribute to the story.

I find it so telling that Mitchell rushes off and leaves the original three just standing there. Heck, they could have been arrested for loitering FCOL. These "action first" people have been relegated to the background to faciliate plot points that forward ONE character, regardless of the detriment to the TEAM...you know, the TEAM?!??
I didn`t see it like that at all. And if they wanted to arrest them for loitering, I`m sure the USAF could come up with some kind of countercharge against the cops who blocked their vehicle, making it necessary for someone to act quickly so they wouldn`t lose Vala. It happened to be Mitchell. Would it have been more acceptable if it had been one of the "original three"? :(


I can't add anything to what Golfbooy said because he said it so much better than I. I bow to your genius.

For me, Claudia Black never fails to deliver and I'm loving Vala more and more...but this episode was just a poor vehicle to forward her backstory/integration into the team. She deserved more...the team deserved more...and so did we.

DEM
September 10th, 2006, 06:55 PM
Well I reckon they could have put her on the team at the start, but that would piss off a lot of fans who don't like her character, so I think they were playing it safe.That's no excuse for not writing this episode so that it worked toward the goal of Vala earning her place.


And it didn't seem to me like it was given to her because of the events of the episode. I guess I just didn't read it like that. I saw it more like ''It's our first Vala-centric episode- we should do something to forward her story as a part of Sg-1''.In contrast, many of the people who have criticised this element of the story DID see it that way (as Vala coming out of probation because of these events). Most, I think, have been very clear about that, so the charge that they didn't like it because "Vala is new" dismisses what they've said.

On the Vala-centric issue: Someone elsewhere made a good point. This other poster pointed out that several eps this season have closed with a "checking in" on Vala's feelings. Now, none of those eps were as Vala-centric as Memento Mori, but the fact remains that we've seen a lot of "Vala struggle" before this. It's ironic -- if not bizarre -- that Vala is released from probation at the end of the ep during which she displayed the least amount of (read: no) active Heroism.

PG15
September 10th, 2006, 06:57 PM
Well I reckon they could have put her on the team at the start, but that would piss off a lot of fans who don't like her character, so I think they were playing it safe.



That actually raises another point; if Vala did do something to earn the promotion, then people'll probably complain that "Vala saved the day!!" or something like that.

DEM
September 10th, 2006, 07:07 PM
I have an idea! Why don't we stick to what people have actually said about this episode instead of engaging in dismissive pop-analysis of non-existent reactions to events that never happened? Sound like a plan?

Pryito
September 10th, 2006, 07:12 PM
Loved this episode! Seeing Vala being hurt like that had me almost in tears, she was so emotional. The action was also very good, people getting shot all over and the explosion with the 2 guys going into the warehouse was amazing.

I would definately put this in my top 10 episodes ever, along with The Pegasus Project. Both amazing episodes!

PG15
September 10th, 2006, 07:12 PM
Sure.

But it's so obvious that that's what's gonna happen. Some people are already complaining about what Mitch did, and if Vala did anything too important, they'll start complaining about that too. "Why don't they let the big 3 do anything anymore?!" And so forth.

Just the way the fandom works, from my eyes.

Dani347
September 10th, 2006, 07:53 PM
Well, I would hope that tptb at least thought it made sense to give Vala a place on the team following this episode (even if I completely disagree) and didn't do it in a manner they thought was poor just because some people might not like it. I'd hate to think they don't write what they really want just because, ooh! *quiver and shake* some people might not like it. In that case, they better not write anything, because nothing on this Earth is universally liked. Fiction, especially.

I'm trying to be good. I really really am.

Shipperahoy
September 10th, 2006, 08:13 PM
Well, I would hope that tptb at least thought it made sense to give Vala a place on the team following this episode (even if I completely disagree) and didn't do it in a manner they thought was poor just because some people might not like it. I'd hate to think they don't write what they really want just because, ooh! *quiver and shake* some people might not like it. In that case, they better not write anything, because nothing on this Earth is universally liked. Fiction, especially.

Well you're talking about the same people who have been straddling the fence on the ship issue for 10 years now completely unable to commit one way or another for fear of alienating any of their fan base so they just keep with the innuendo to try, futilely I might add, to keep both sides placated. The same people who remind me of politicians in their ability to make completely vague statements that don't really mean anything at all.


I'm trying to be good. I really really am.

It's alright. Go to your happy place.;)

Dani347
September 10th, 2006, 08:31 PM
It's alright. Go to your happy place.;)


Daniel *sigh*

Uber
September 10th, 2006, 08:33 PM
I didn`t see it like that at all. And if they wanted to arrest them for loitering, I`m sure the USAF could come up with some kind of countercharge against the cops who blocked their vehicle, making it necessary for someone to act quickly so they wouldn`t lose Vala. It happened to be Mitchell. Would it have been more acceptable if it had been one of the "original three"? :(It would have been "more acceptable" if they as a team had gone of together as a team and taken a police car as a team to find Vala as a team...rather than having one of them run off and leave the others just standing there.

Shipperahoy
September 10th, 2006, 08:44 PM
It would have been "more acceptable" if they as a team had gone of together as a team and taken a police car as a team to find Vala as a team...rather than having one of them run off and leave the others just standing there.

While I would have loved to see them all try to fit on that motorcycle it might have been a little bit too Three Stooges for Stargate. Although they had puppets and Ewok/Koalas so you never know.:cameron: Honestly though, that scene didn't really bug me because I didn't see it as him going all commando and leaving the others behind, I saw it more as him seeing an opportunity to get after Vala quickly and taking it before he lost her. That and TPTB couldn't possibly pass up a chance for a kewl motorcycle chase.;)

RealmOfX
September 10th, 2006, 08:45 PM
It would have been "more acceptable" if they as a team had gone of together as a team and taken a police car as a team to find Vala as a team...rather than having one of them run off and leave the others just standing there.

Mitchell running off by himself - again. How NOT surprising.

Uber
September 10th, 2006, 09:01 PM
While I would have loved to see them all try to fit on that motorcycle it might have been a little bit too Three Stooges for Stargate. Although they had puppets and Ewok/Koalas so you never know.:cameron: Honestly though, that scene didn't really bug me because I didn't see it as him going all commando and leaving the others behind, I saw it more as him seeing an opportunity to get after Vala quickly and taking it before he lost her. That and TPTB couldn't possibly pass up a chance for a kewl motorcycle chase.;)LOL

Well see the thing is that it was written that way. They wrote the car to block them.

They could have written there to be two bikes...with both Sam and Mitchell riding off and telling Teal'c and Daniel to go back inside and contact Landry with an update.

They could have written it so that Mitchell takes a bike and the other 3 take a police car.

They could have written Sam picking a lock to get into the car blocking their way and them using that or Teal'c pushing the car out of the way.

They COULD have done a lot where the team would have been involved as a unit rather than continue the trend of Mitchell running off. AGAIN. I mean, they know it's an issue, thus the " Just out of curiosity, what was the rest of the team doing while your character was fighting the zombies?" comment from Daniel in 200.

They see an issue and yet rather than have Mitchell develop as a team member and functioning within the unit, he continues to run off and do his own thing.

Traveler Enroute1
September 10th, 2006, 09:15 PM
how do you know there wouldn't have? maybe vala would have declothed sam so she wouldn't have been anxious on trying to get away. and since vala didn't hit on mitchell in the room, that scene could have been played pretty much the same if it had been with sam instead.


sally :)

Oh, that would have been a possibility. But not the bare chested, pantless male ogle, um, scene. Sam's sexy of course, but Cam in the bed worked fine for me! ;)

Just sayin'! :)

stephsupermom
September 10th, 2006, 09:24 PM
I loved this ep. For many different reasons. I wasnt to terribly concerned by the Surry sign. I was to busy watchinig the chase of BB on a motorcycle.

But my reason for posting is I have a question... Who were the actors who played the detective and Sal the resturant owner?

scarimor
September 11th, 2006, 01:53 AM
Sure.

But it's so obvious that that's what's gonna happen. Some people are already complaining about what Mitch did, and if Vala did anything too important, they'll start complaining about that too. "Why don't they let the big 3 do anything anymore?!" And so forth.

Just the way the fandom works, from my eyes.
Well, if you want to make up stuff about other people on the forum... you've lost all credibility when you claim not only to be able to read minds but also to predict the future as a basis for you arguments. :rolleyes:

VashtiB
September 11th, 2006, 02:46 AM
I didn't mind this ep, even though i thought i wasnt gonna like it. Its leading to some interesting potential storylines. Daniel just looks better and better!!

Jonzey
September 11th, 2006, 03:25 AM
Well, I would hope that tptb at least thought it made sense to give Vala a place on the team following this episode (even if I completely disagree) and didn't do it in a manner they thought was poor just because some people might not like it. I'd hate to think they don't write what they really want just because, ooh! *quiver and shake* some people might not like it. In that case, they better not write anything, because nothing on this Earth is universally liked. Fiction, especially.
Wish that were true, but you've seen how angry people get when one of the new guys gets some screen time. Why do you think Mitchell's been transformed to a shadow of his season 9 self?

Maybe the writers are just sick of coming online only to see threads full of comments about how they suck and can't write and should all be fired and replaced, so they're trying to do things as diplomatically as possible. It's not trying to please everyone, it's trying to nullify all the criticism they seem to recieve.

Lokii
September 11th, 2006, 05:11 AM
I also did not care for this episode. While it has some interesting points, but it was rather stale. I found my self looking to see what else was on. :o

I wonder, just how many Gould infected the trust?

scarimor
September 11th, 2006, 05:14 AM
Wish that were true, but you've seen how angry people get when one of the new guys gets some screen time. Why do you think Mitchell's been transformed to a shadow of his season 9 self?

Maybe the writers are just sick of coming online only to see threads full of comments about how they suck and can't write and should all be fired and replaced, so they're trying to do things as diplomatically as possible. It's not trying to please everyone, it's trying to nullify all the criticism they seem to recieve.
From which planet of delusion comes this notion? Do you seriously think this is how the business operates?

In the unlikely event that one of the writers read your post and took it in, there would be much snickering and eye-rolling, I think. Credit them with some intelligence.

http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f30/scarimor/nuytens/samanime32.gif

Jonzey
September 11th, 2006, 08:35 AM
From which planet of delusion comes this notion? Do you seriously think this is how the business operates?

In the unlikely event that one of the writers read your post and took it in, there would be much snickering and eye-rolling, I think. Credit them with some intelligence.

http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f30/scarimor/nuytens/samanime32.gif
Oh I do. Other people on this board don't. They're trying to please the fans, and that is how the entertainment business works.

scarimor
September 11th, 2006, 08:38 AM
It's not trying to please everyone, it's trying to nullify all the criticism they seem to recieve.

Oh I do. Other people on this board don't. They're trying to please the fans, and that is how the entertainment business works.
Which is it?

In any case, it is not in the manner you describe.

The writers will please themselves, and accomodate their paymasters priorities for the advertisers. A very small number of posters on an internet message board are not going to have a strong influence over those. The entertainment business does not work as you describe.

It's certainly possible that a writer of an episode may come here to see what people thought of it, and read that particular thread, and maybe take away some insights from some of the lengthier, more involved critiques. But that is something else.

suse
September 11th, 2006, 08:49 AM
Not necessarily. Remember(forgot her name) the woman from Thor's hammer? That Goa'uld was removed much more effectivly than the Tok'Ra's technique. She had all her memories. Vala was Quetesh's host for a while so it is likely she would have those memories and supressed them. No. Apophis was critically injured and his body was not only trying to heal him but maintain his life.


No, it wasn't removed. It was killed within her, She went into the "zone" and killed herself because she was sick and tired of the labrynth. Remember the ex-host said it was excruciating to get out? Thy would it be if the symbiote left her? And unlike the Vala dialogue, I got the idea that the Thor's Hammer ex-host was one for years but not centuries. Not the same at all. Although you may have a point about Apophis' body, I still don't buy it. <sigh> What else is new.

Suse

Jonzey
September 11th, 2006, 08:56 AM
Which is it?

In any case, it is not in the manner you describe.

The writers will please themselves, and accomodate their paymasters priorities for the advertisers. A very small number of posters on an internet message board are not going to have a strong influence over those. The entertainment business does not work as you describe.

It's certainly possible that a writer of an episode may come here to see what people thought of it, and read that particular thread, and maybe take away some insights from some of the lengthier, more involved critiques. But that is something else.
So your explanation for them making Teal'c (and Jonas) a team member after a few episodes but holding out on Vala is...?

scarimor
September 11th, 2006, 09:04 AM
So your explanation for them making Teal'c (and Jonas) a team member after a few episodes but holding out on Vala is...?
... that they consider it a suitable amount of time, given the character they have written, of course.

Jonzey
September 11th, 2006, 09:15 AM
... that they consider it a suitable amount of time, given the character they have written, of course.
You know what, I'm not arguing with you anymore. Given how we've treated aliens in the past it wouldn't be completely outrageous to allow Vala on the team nearer the start of the season. The fact that they're holding off to me makes it look like they're just being diplomatic about it. After all, Vala has essentially been a team member this season anyway, in every respect apart from having those badges on her arms.

suse
September 11th, 2006, 09:21 AM
Uhmm... it's just a TV show, and a science fiction one. Plus, Vala is not an Earth human, so Earth standards and regulations don't have to apply to her.


If she's on Earth, they do apply.

Suse

Myn McGeek, Third Sentinel
September 11th, 2006, 09:26 AM
In the discussion on whether or not the writers read these threads and listen to them, I think I'd agree with Jonzey. I have the season 1 DVD for Atlantis and on the commentary for... I forget the name of the episode, but it was the one with all the kids... anyway, in the commentary one of them (maybe Martin Gero?) said something along the lines of, "I was reading the thread for this one on GateWorld and the fans were complaining that Rodney was too mean to them [the two kids], so I've actually toned him down a little for later episodes."

So, obviously the writers do listen and care. :) THANKS GUYS! :D

Myn McGeek, Third Sentinel
September 11th, 2006, 09:42 AM
Man, I wish I could just quote your entire post but instead just picked a couple of snippets from it. You've said so much of what I've been thinking. I agree 100% with everything that you wrote. This show has always been so strong in the friendship/team/family aspect and because of that, I don't really see the point of the romantic angle and I hate that it feels like it's taking away from the friendships they all have. I seriously miss the team interaction especially between Daniel, Sam, and Teal'c. GREAT post!! :D
http://randomimage.net/ims/u/553/663/24104.bmp ... wow. Thanks! :daniel:

Myn McGeek, Third Sentinel
September 11th, 2006, 09:54 AM
Just sayin', good points, Myn MacGeek, Third Sentinel. I thought Sam's absence early in the episode was a mistake given how close she is to Daniel. Maybe they'll fix it as the season progresses, and we'll get the ol' or a new SG1 gestalt again. ;)
:daniel: Thanks, I'm really glad so many people agree with me. As I've said, it's one of the most (if not the most) important aspects of the show to me. I certainly hope you're right that they'll fix it, especially since the series is most likely ending after this season. :danielanime07:

DEM
September 11th, 2006, 09:56 AM
The writers will please themselves, and accomodate their paymasters priorities for the advertisers. A very small number of posters on an internet message board are not going to have a strong influence over those. The entertainment business does not work as you describe.

It's certainly possible that a writer of an episode may come here to see what people thought of it, and read that particular thread, and maybe take away some insights from some of the lengthier, more involved critiques. But that is something else.I tend to agree with scarimor here.

How could it possibly be that the writers structure the episodes and seasons based on speculation of how fans will respond? Fans respond differently; they are not a monolith.

What about the fans who thought that the SGC was being mean and unforgiving toward Vala? What about fans who were/are miffed that Mitchell wasn't/isn't a strong enough leader?

The writers as far back as S9 -- when they first were told that Vala was to be a regular -- frequently talked about how a major task for them was going to be working her into the SGC and SG-1 in a gradual, realistic manner, given her history with the SGC. That was their choice, and that is apparently what they wrote (or tried to).

gotta dash now.

Lida
September 11th, 2006, 10:02 AM
In the discussion on whether or not the writers read these threads and listen to them, I think I'd agree with Jonzey. I have the season 1 DVD for Atlantis and on the commentary for... I forget the name of the episode, but it was the one with all the kids... anyway, in the commentary one of them (maybe Martin Gero?) said something along the lines of, "I was reading the thread for this one on GateWorld and the fans were complaining that Rodney was too mean to them [the two kids], so I've actually toned him down a little for later episodes."

So, obviously the writers do listen and care. :) THANKS GUYS! :D

Yep, the writers, at least most of them, do read our comments and they do care. What is sad, is that, for the first time since I've been a SG-1 fan, I'm feeling that the writers have an agenda of their own, and are not listening to the feedback from the fans, because if they had been listening, I believe Memento Mori would have been a completely different episode. It was disappointing on so many levels, I simply can't state them all, but it boils down to one thing.....cardboard characters. This episode was an opportunity missed, one that could have been used to make Vala more 3 dimensional, and to re-introduce the "family" feeling of the entire team. It failed on all fronts. Here's hoping the remainder of the season does not fail, as I would hate this to be the SG-1 swan song.......

Skydiver
September 11th, 2006, 10:47 AM
Originally Posted by Farscapefan
Uhmm... it's just a TV show, and a science fiction one. Plus, Vala is not an Earth human, so Earth standards and regulations don't have to apply to her.

so, say i'm from Moronastan and pedophilia is normal there. as is polygamy. and then i move to Youbetchastan, where both pedophilia and polygamy are against the law....i should expect to keep my 6 under age wives because i can at home???

being an alien is a reason, not an excuse and it is expected that peopel will conform to the social norms of their new homes, not expect teh new home to change it's structure to accomodate the new folks

Gate gal
September 11th, 2006, 10:49 AM
Well, I have to say that this was my least favorite episode of season 10, but it is a far cry from worst episode ever. It was a Vala centered episode, and Claudia did a fabulous job. Unfortunately, it was also an earth-based episode. Those are never as exciting to watch, so I didn't expect to be blown away by Momento Mori. I wish we would have had more interaction with the rest of the team. I always hate to see cast members (old or new) being used as wall paper, but that almost always happens in episodes centering on one character's backstory.
I did really enjoy the hotel scene when the rest of the team caught up with Cam. I loved Sam giving him a hard time about his pants. It finally seemed natural for them to be friends. Most of season 9, it just seemed off. I think my favorite scene of the whole episode was the interogation scene. I love the way the cameras shifted up to show Sam and Cam leaving the window as Daniel left the room. Good cop, bad jaffa was awesome. I loved that we didn't hear what Teal'c whispered into the prisoner's ear. That scene just rocked!
I also had no problem with Vala becoming an official member of SG1 in this episode. I think it was based more on her behavior in recent months (things we've seen in episodes and implied adventures that we haven't seen). It was probably coming even before she got kidnapped. Afterall, Daniel was taking her to dinner to thank her for not letting him down when he stuck his neck out for her. I think the kidnapping just happened to coincide with the decision to make her an official member of the team.
One last comment, Joseph proved he could still write a believable ship last night, and it was great. I wish they would have already given a nice resolution to the Sam and Jack ship, so I could ship for Daniel and Vala. However, I couldn't enjoy Daniel/Vala much last night, because I won't ship for another SG1 couple until the first ship is resolved.

Skydiver
September 11th, 2006, 10:53 AM
i guess i should clarify before i'm taken to task for calling vala a pedophile - which i'm not by the way - my point is, i move to paris, i would be expected to learn french adn fit in with the customs of the country. If everyone eats dinner at 8pm and i'm used to eating at 5, well i better get used to eating at 8 or eat at 5 alone

i woudl be judged the most arrogant person in the world if i expected all of paris to learn english to accomodate me or if i expected the whole restaurant to open hours earlier to accomodate me.

as person fits in with where they move to. you don't lose your own culture but you do make it fit where you've moved to.

and 'i'm not from around here' only works as an excuse for so long

scarimor
September 11th, 2006, 11:10 AM
You know what, I'm not arguing with you anymore.
I'm crushed.


Given how we've treated aliens in the past it wouldn't be completely outrageous to allow Vala on the team nearer the start of the season.
Clearly the writers thought that the character they'd written (the one who started out stealing an Earth ship and abandoning its crew in space, and over the course of several episodes has become a reformed character with an investment in Earth, the SGC and its personnel), should be given the time to show that shift in her allegiance and priorities happening.

The US government wanted to haul Teal'c away for experiments even after he proved his new loyalty by freeing SG-1 from Apophis, and it was only after he fought and killed the Goa'uld that infested Kawalski that Hammond could find the clout with the President to agree to O'Neill's request to have him on his unit.

Jonas had to go through a lot of mistrust from O'Neill before he got his place on the team, and he'd never been a hijacker or thief who targeted the USAF.


The fact that they're holding off to me makes it look like they're just being diplomatic about it.
Then what "it looks like" to you is distorted through the lens of your unfamiliarity with the way the industry works, and how writers make their artistic decisions. The writers were developing Vala's season 10 storyline way back in 2005. Malozzi stated then that Vala would not have an easy time of it. That made sense, given the character we saw in season 8. Your assertion that their craft is driven by a desire to avert criticism on a GateWorld thread or two is pretty insulting.

scarimor
September 11th, 2006, 11:19 AM
Btw, all this talk of Vala getting on the team officially has made me realise something: there's been some debate about what Vala actually did in Memento Mori that earned her the place on the team. I thought about that too, briefly, when I watched that final scene, and figured, well, this isn't just the result of what happened in this episode - it's taken some time and Vala's done good work over quite some time.

That line of Carter's - "You earned it" - has a sense of 'the recent' about it. It feels like she's talking about what just happened. Change that line to "You've earned it", and it feels like she's talking about all that's happened since Vala first joined SG-1 in all but name. I have a feeling people wouldn't be asking, "What did Vala do in this episode to earn her place?" if the writers had made that one little change :)

Jonzey
September 11th, 2006, 11:24 AM
Then what "it looks like" to you is distorted through the lens of your unfamiliarity with the way the industry works, and how writers make their artistic decisions. The writers were developing Vala's season 10 storyline way back in 2005. Malozzi stated then that Vala would not have an easy time of it. That made sense, given the character we saw in season 8. Your assertion that their craft is driven by a desire to avert criticism on a GateWorld thread or two is pretty insulting.
You know nothing about me, so don't claim to. And I think it's funny you think I'm insulting the writers, when sooooo many people here have said far worse about them, and how they're all terrible at their jobs and should all be replaced. I guess that's alright though. After all, they do pay no attention to what fans want. That whole 200 thing was just a bunch of random events thrown together randomly for no reason. That thing the other guy/gal mentioned earlier about the writers saying on the DVD commentary about how they took input from the forum, that was just a lie too.

Farscapefan
September 11th, 2006, 11:30 AM
Jonas had to go through a lot of mistrust from O'Neill before he got his place on the team, and he'd never been a hijacker or thief who targeted the USAF.


Yeah... like Vala knew exactly who was onboard the ship she was going to hijack. :comeon: It reminds me Crichton's "Humans are superior!" from Crackers Don't Matter episode in Farscape, but this superiority actually makes me sick in this case.

GateLadyM
September 11th, 2006, 11:35 AM
I liked this episode and usually I hate the Earth-based ones, especially involving the Trust (should have had Kinsey back though. I miss him).

As for the comment, "You earned it", that doesn't necessarily mean she earned it because of the events in this episode. They may have been planning to give her the patches prior to her abduction. Who knows, maybe Daniel was going to tell her during dinner. BTW, Daniel and Vala are an item, even if Daniel doesn't know it yet. ;)

The car chase went on a bit too long, and it was too obvious that cars were going up and down the same road, plus that car flip was overdone. A nice crash on a tree or in a ditch would have been better.

Poor Mitchell handcuffed, and I admit I wasn't bothered by that at all. :) But Claudia and Ben always work well together. Those scenes were quite humorous. Loved Cam's "kidney" comment, and Sam's pants observation. *LOL*

This wasn't a perfect episode, but it was fun, so it gets a thumbs up from me.

Farscapefan
September 11th, 2006, 11:44 AM
As for the comment, "You earned it", that doesn't necessarily mean she earned it because of the events in this episode. They may have been planning to give her the patches prior to her abduction. Who knows, maybe Daniel was going to tell her during dinner.

Precisely. This "welcome back present" was really lovely culmination of what happened in the past - Vala's sacrifice while destroying the Supergate, saving Daniel's life taking the shot herself for him, insisting how to ask the questions to get intel they needed from Morgan Le Fey, coming up with the plan that captures one of Ba'als...

Myn McGeek, Third Sentinel
September 11th, 2006, 12:39 PM
Yep, the writers, at least most of them, do read our comments and they do care. What is sad, is that, for the first time since I've been a SG-1 fan, I'm feeling that the writers have an agenda of their own, and are not listening to the feedback from the fans, because if they had been listening, I believe Memento Mori would have been a completely different episode. It was disappointing on so many levels, I simply can't state them all, but it boils down to one thing.....cardboard characters. This episode was an opportunity missed, one that could have been used to make Vala more 3 dimensional, and to re-introduce the "family" feeling of the entire team. It failed on all fronts. Here's hoping the remainder of the season does not fail, as I would hate this to be the SG-1 swan song.......
Sure, I'm not saying that episode couldn't of been done any better (I especially agree with the part of your post I underlined), but I think it's just that, before, it may have been a little easier to do what the fans wanted than it is now. There are so many conflicting opinions on certain things, now. In this case, it's whether or not Vala joined the team too soon. So, while I do agree that they could have done better with this particular episode, I think they still are trying to best please us, at least a little.

full.infinity
September 11th, 2006, 12:51 PM
Yeah, you`re right, but I`m SO thankful we got a shirtless Mitchell instead of a shirtless Sam.
Only problem is that a shirtless Sam wouldn't get past the censors :P


It would have been "more acceptable" if they as a team had gone of together as a team and taken a police car as a team to find Vala as a team...rather than having one of them run off and leave the others just standing there.
Yeah, because if the entire episode is not done with everybody together all the time and any character ever does anything alone then it must be a failure. Right?

Jace021903
September 11th, 2006, 12:51 PM
So,

This won't go down in history as one of my favorite episodes, but I did enjoy it. It certainly wasn't the worst that Stargate has done. Like many Sg-1 episodes with so-so plots, the actors and character interactions make the episode worth watching.

Everybody has covered the nitpicks so I'll skip those. :)

Some random observations:

CB was great; she never hits a false note.

I laughed when Vala said that she had been watching X-Files reruns and then made mention of alien abduction when talking to Cam.

I love the emotional connection between Daniel and Vala but I really really don't want to see a mushy romance.

Teal'c DOES need his own PI series. He could get anybody to spill the beans.

I wonder if AT was off filming Atlantis since she was not in the beginning of the episode very much. Teal'c didn't have that much to do either (although they both fared better than Teyla and Ronin this week on SGA)

I didn't get the impression that Vala was finally given her patches because of what she went through in the episode. I think it was already in the works based on what Daniel said to her at dinner. All new characters get that "you're part of the team; you earned it" speech at one time or another.

"That 70's" Bob was great!

So alot to like in spite of the sketchy script.




9/11--Never forget...

Farscapefan
September 11th, 2006, 12:57 PM
Yeah, because if the entire episode is not done with everybody together all the time and any character ever does anything alone then it must be a failure. Right?

Agree and I must say I really don't get these "TEAM" demands and they really make me scratch my head all the time... :tealcanime49: You don't need all of them on screen together for the whole episode to feel the team working together.

DEM
September 11th, 2006, 12:58 PM
You know nothing about me, so don't claim to.And your right to claim to know things about the writers' minds is based on...??



After all, they do pay no attention to what fans want.

Yeah, because if the entire episode is not done with everybody together all the time and any character ever does anything alone then it must be a failure. Right?The two quotes above demonstrate why I believe all secondary students the world over should be required to take a basic logic course.

full.infinity
September 11th, 2006, 01:00 PM
And your right to claim to know things about the writers' minds is based on...??
A post from Myn MacGeek said that the GateWorld fora itself was mentioned as such on the commentary. I'm pretty sure that interviews with TPTB have said the same thing.

Admit that you have lost.

DEM
September 11th, 2006, 01:54 PM
Admit that you have profoundly underdeveloped logical reasoning skills.

The changes Martin Gero made with regard to Character X in Episodes i thru m after reading fan responses, or what Writer B did with Storyline Y in Episodes n thru q, tells you nothing about how or why the SG-1 writing staff as a whole approached Vala's "first episodes as a regular" arc.

scarimor
September 11th, 2006, 02:04 PM
You know nothing about me, so don't claim to.
I did not claim to know anything about you other than what you told us yourself. I commented on your claims about the writers' motives, and asked if you seriously believed what you'd claimed. Your next post showed that you do. So we all know that much.


After all, they do pay no attention to what fans want. That whole 200 thing was just a bunch of random events thrown together randomly for no reason. That thing the other guy/gal mentioned earlier about the writers saying on the DVD commentary about how they took input from the forum, that was just a lie too.
Is this sarcasm? Are you suggesting that I dispute these things? If you are, you have obviously not understood the exchange, or missed what I posted.

Btw, can please point to the posts on this thread which claim that the writers are "all terrible at their jobs and should all be replaced"?

scarimor
September 11th, 2006, 02:13 PM
Yeah... like Vala knew exactly who was onboard the ship she was going to hijack. :comeon: It reminds me Crichton's "Humans are superior!" from Crackers Don't Matter episode in Farscape, but this superiority actually makes me sick in this case.
I don't understand what you're saying here, Farscapefan. What does this have to do with superiority?

It doesn't matter to the USAF that Vala didn't know the identity of the people on board the ship she hijacked. What matters to them is that she was their adversary, but that now, through a process of joining the SGC and proving herself an ally, and then a team-player, she has become one of them and a full member of SG-1.

My point was that she has taken longer than Jonas did to earn her place on the team because unlike him she started from an adversarial position. I think it right that the writers gave her this time to develop her position.

Uber
September 11th, 2006, 02:16 PM
Only problem is that a shirtless Sam wouldn't get past the censors :P


Yeah, because if the entire episode is not done with everybody together all the time and any character ever does anything alone then it must be a failure. Right?Uh. No. That's not my point and I think you know that.

Continually showing Mitchell as "the guy who runs off and leaves the others behind so he can save the day" is not doing him any favors. Plus it continues to highlight the falacy that "we're returning to our roots" as a team-based show.

This is not a one-time thing for him...he does this all the time. And regardless of the set up, the writers could do a heck of a lot better for him and for the team.

Further, isn't he supposed to be there to "keep the team together"? (Something I think is supremely condescending, btw) How is running off and doing his own thing a means to that end?

Jonzey
September 11th, 2006, 02:18 PM
Well I have nothing left to add to the arguement. I know I've won when the other side have to start resorting to personal attacks.

scarimor
September 11th, 2006, 02:20 PM
Precisely. This "welcome back present" was really lovely culmination of what happened in the past - Vala's sacrifice while destroying the Supergate, saving Daniel's life taking the shot herself for him, insisting how to ask the questions to get intel they needed from Morgan Le Fey, coming up with the plan that captures one of Ba'als...
Yes. I made this point earlier - if the writers had had Sam say, "You've earned it" instead of, "You earned it", it would feel like she was refering to more than the events of just this one episode. I think that's where the misplaced sense of 'What did she do?' comes from.

scarimor
September 11th, 2006, 02:22 PM
Well I have nothing left to add to the arguement. I know I've won when the other side have to start resorting to personal attacks.
Are you serious? Where's the personal attack? :vala09: And what on earth is it that you think you've "won"?

Egraine
September 11th, 2006, 02:23 PM
I liked it. T'ealc getting results without laying a finger on the guy was great.
Sam giving Cam a hard time over losing his pants....again...was pretty funny.


Did we hear that all three died in the car wreck? I saw one get shot and assumed the other two were just unconscious. Look a little closer...Vala had scraps and bruises on her face and hands. We know she didn't have a shoulder harness, but may have had a seat belt. The car flipping was kinda lame.

DEM
September 11th, 2006, 02:24 PM
Well I have nothing left to add to the arguement. I know I've won when the other side have to start resorting to personal attacks.


:jack_new_anime06: :valaanime06: :lol: :hammond03: :sheppard28: :weiranime20:

This from the person who entered the discussion with this gem straight outta left field:


Wish that were true, but you've seen how angry people get when one of the new guys gets some screen time. Why do you think Mitchell's been transformed to a shadow of his season 9 self?

Maybe the writers are just sick of coming online only to see threads full of comments about how they suck and can't write and should all be fired and replaced....
I say again:


:jack_new_anime06: :valaanime06: :lol: :hammond03: :sheppard28: :weiranime20:

Uber
September 11th, 2006, 02:24 PM
Are you serious? Where's the personal attack? :vala09: And what on earth is it that you think you've "won"?The SG-1 Kewpie Doll.

No...wait...you win that when you successfully list all the planet designations SG-1's visited in order.

scarimor
September 11th, 2006, 02:32 PM
Did we hear that all three died in the car wreck? I saw one get shot and assumed the other two were just unconscious.
Could be.

Look a little closer...Vala had scraps and bruises on her face and hands. We know she didn't have a shoulder harness, but may have had a seat belt. The car flipping was kinda lame.
You know, that whole Cam-motorcycle and car-flippin thing - ok, here's what should've happened :D : Cam shouldn't have grabbed a motorcyle (that's Sam's gig, fcol - he should have something original), he should've grabbed a really big rig. Then he should've used the big rig's sat-nav to head the car off at the pass truckers' favourite intersection, and nudged/rolled the car off the road. That way, the car wouldn't have had to do a somersault all by itself and Cam would have a new gig :)

Jonzey
September 11th, 2006, 02:42 PM
Are you serious? Where's the personal attack? :vala09: And what on earth is it that you think you've "won"?
I've won because I don't care about this anymore. TPTB have proven to me in the past that they do occasionally listen to fan criticism, and this event looked to me like another example of it. That's all I've been saying, but apparantly that means I lack logic.

scarimor
September 11th, 2006, 02:46 PM
I've won because I don't care about this anymore.
Well, that is why you think you've won, but that's not what I asked. Another example of your not following?


TPTB have proven to me in the past that they do occasionally listen to fan criticism
Yes, and no one said they don't...


and this event looked to me like another example of it.
Which it can't be, because a) it's not "an event", and b) the timing is out. They developed this arc for Vala back in 2005 - and spoke about what they would be doing with her all that time ago.


That's all I've been saying, but apparantly that means I lack logic.
See above.

btw, you've not answered any of the questions :p

(ps. but if thinking you've won ;) and thinking you know why you've won ;) gives you a warm fuzzy, you go ahead and feel that. Fuzziness doesn't need logic, dammit! You can have the Kewpie-doll anyway, no one will mind :D)

ShardsofGlass
September 11th, 2006, 02:55 PM
Continually showing Mitchell as "the guy who runs off and leaves the others behind so he can save the day" is not doing him any favors. Plus it continues to highlight the falacy that "we're returning to our roots" as a team-based show.

This is not a one-time thing for him...he does this all the time. And regardless of the set up, the writers could do a heck of a lot better for him and for the team.

Further, isn't he supposed to be there to "keep the team together"? (Something I think is supremely condescending, btw) How is running off and doing his own thing a means to that end?

You're completely exagerating. First all all, he doesn't run off "all the time." Technically he only did it in Stronghold and this ep, maybe Arthur's Mantle, though he did tell Sam where he was going first, so that's hardly just "running off." And in Stronghold, it can be argued that he saw an opportunity and took it, but let's please not go down that road again.

In this ep, though, what was he supposed to do. Just stand there helplessly with the rest of the group while the kidnappers ran off with Vala? Which is worse? Standing around or taking action and trying to rescue a teammate who was in trouble?

See, that's the problem with generalities like "he's saving the day," or "he does that all the time." He hadn't done it all the time, and in most episodes he's right there with the rest of the team. Plus, he wasn't trying to "save the day" or whatever that means. He was trying to save Vala, or at least find out where she was being taken.

I think that if Sam had run off on the motorcycle, you wouldn't have complained about it. And I think that when Sam ran off without backup or even a gun in The Insiders, no one said she was running off doing her own thing. And in Pegasus Project, when Teal'c disobeyed orders and stuck by the supergate, no one accused him of not being a team player.

The team can't be together 100% of the time, and it's riduculous to expect that, imo. Separating them once in a while creates drama and interesting scenarios that you wouldn't get if they were together all the time.

Jonzey
September 11th, 2006, 03:03 PM
Which it can't be, because a) it's not "an event", and b) the timing is out. They developed this arc for Vala back in 2005 - and spoke about what they would be doing with her all that time ago.

Well I was unaware of that when I started this whole thing. But I still think it wouldn't have been outrageous and out of place for her to get the badges in episode 3 or 4. That doesn't mean she's already adjusted and settled into her new life. Hell, Teal'c and Jonas had some trouble (admittedly not as much) when they first joined.

And I say I've won the arguement because I'm not gonna change my mind, and you're not gonna change yours. That's a win for me, I suck at arguing. I usually end up thinking the other person is probably right.

What other questions were there?

Oh yeah, the thread about the writers being replaced. I'm sure I saw it, but I can't find it right now. Apparantly the search is down. The closest I could find was about bringing in new writers, but that's not the same. Might have been deleted. But you can't deny there are loads of comments about the writing not being up to scratch and so on. What's the cure for that if not removing them and getting new ones?

It could well just be as you said, that they didn't want Vala to fit in and feel comfortable straight away. But the way I first saw it was the writers being careful, just like they did with the whole Sam/Jack ship thing. Could be either of those, could be a combination. But yours probably makes more sense.

And the personal attack wasn't from you, but from the other guy who's just not worth responding to.

See, now I feel all fuzzy.

esoap524
September 11th, 2006, 03:26 PM
The episode as a whole seemed a bit "surface". It seemed as if they would touch on something then move along to the next thing. I am glad they did spend some time Mitchell handcuffed to the bed, shirtless *sorry for the fangirlie moment*



Ooh, I think you seized on the crux of the problem--surface or superficial. I mean, Claudia's a gamer and she was doing all she could with what she was given. I liked the Cam/Vala scene--nice humor but still you sense her growing impatience with the situation. I liked the Sam/Cam "pants" moment, and I loved the Daniel/Vala moments: the date, the "Daniel" and Vala falls into his arms, and the tag with everyone raising eyebrows at Daniel's "not a date" spiel.

It was a series of moments that never got too involved. Was there really any point to Athena after she kidnapped Vala? It seems like those were wasted moments, unless Athena is going to show up later. Even so...I get it. She's bad, she's mad and she's out for Vala. I didn't think it was necessary to see her plotting. Could we not have guessed that something was afoot when "Col. Carter" came to get Vala and it wasn't the lovely Col Carter we all know?

So, while there were many enjoyable scenes, it was frustrating to watch. Skip the diner, skip the bad guy plotting and then we could have had some time for more actual bonding/characterization between people we really care about, namely, Daniel, Vala, Sam, Mitchell and Teal'c. Or at least, people I care about. That way when Vala gets "patched" at the end, you'd feel a little more relief or something from the rest of the team, other than Vala and Daniel.

I get that the patch is a culmination of things Vala's done, including risking her life twice, once to close the supergate in "Beachhead", and once to return to Earth, via Daniel, in "Crusade". And it's not like she got it right off the bat. It's just that there's a real emotional disconnect, for me, and I'm sure it's not from the actors. I think the biggest missing is the Carter/Vala relationship; that is really starting to bug me a lot.

It's weird, I really can't figure out why I was so put out by this episode in spite of enjoying parts of it immensely.

Uber
September 11th, 2006, 03:42 PM
You're completely exagerating. First all all, he doesn't run off "all the time." Technically he only did it in Stronghold and this ep, maybe Arthur's Mantle, though he did tell Sam where he was going first, so that's hardly just "running off." And in Stronghold, it can be argued that he saw an opportunity and took it, but let's please not go down that road again.

In this ep, though, what was he supposed to do. Just stand there helplessly with the rest of the group while the kidnappers ran off with Vala? Which is worse? Standing around or taking action and trying to rescue a teammate who was in trouble?

See, that's the problem with generalities like "he's saving the day," or "he does that all the time." He hadn't done it all the time, and in most episodes he's right there with the rest of the team. Plus, he wasn't trying to "save the day" or whatever that means. He was trying to save Vala, or at least find out where she was being taken.

I think that if Sam had run off on the motorcycle, you wouldn't have complained about it. And I think that when Sam ran off without backup or even a gun in The Insiders, no one said she was running off doing her own thing. And in Pegasus Project, when Teal'c disobeyed orders and stuck by the supergate, no one accused him of not being a team player.

The team can't be together 100% of the time, and it's riduculous to expect that, imo. Separating them once in a while creates drama and interesting scenarios that you wouldn't get if they were together all the time.It's an issue for Mitchell though. So much so that they made a point of pointing it out in episode 200. He has a habit of running off and doing his own thing. Oh, btw, add Off the Grid and Collateral Damage to that list as well.

I wouldn't have complained as much if Sam had taken the bike because she's known for her bike love. I would however have been irritated if she had done so without considering the rest of the team. Simply running off and leaving the others standing there would be supremely out of character for her. She would have told them to take one of the cars or something, not just left them there.

I never said they had to be together in every scene all the time. I did say however that I'd love to see them actually acting like a team. This used to be the way they worked. As a cohesive unit. Only very rarely did one run off to be the brave hero...in fact, I can't come up with too many options of them acting this way pre-season 9.

As for bringing up Teal'c or Sam, you're mixing apples and oranges here. Teal'c has a habit of being a team player. Sam has a habit of being a team player. Mitchell has a habit for running off and playing the hero. "Just out of curiosity, what was the rest of the team doing while your character was fighting the zombies?"

Nuff said.

nccjones
September 11th, 2006, 03:46 PM
I tend to agree with scarimor here.

How could it possibly be that the writers structure the episodes and seasons based on speculation of how fans will respond? Fans respond differently; they are not a monolith.

What about the fans who thought that the SGC was being mean and unforgiving toward Vala? What about fans who were/are miffed that Mitchell wasn't/isn't a strong enough leader?

The writers as far back as S9 -- when they first were told that Vala was to be a regular -- frequently talked about how a major task for them was going to be working her into the SGC and SG-1 in a gradual, realistic manner, given her history with the SGC. That was their choice, and that is apparently what they wrote (or tried to).

gotta dash now.

I have to agree with Jonezy on this one. It must be a Jones thing...lol. But all you have to do is look at the episode 200 to realize they do listen to the fans and the fans do influence them. I think the two biggest things we've seen that the fans have had influence over is the S/J ship and the OTT Mitchell. Even though I wish the S/J ship would have evolved in some way, I believe they listened to the masses and pulled back on it. Same with Mitchell and his bravado last season...this season he's more toned down. Well, the same could be said with Vala. She was so funny and exciting last year, but the fans screamed how amoral she was and now she's this little girl with pig tails. She's nothing like the woman from PU. It's sad in a way, but unfortunately the internet is powerful and the masses have spoken and TPTB have listened.

Myn McGeek, Third Sentinel
September 11th, 2006, 04:09 PM
Agree and I must say I really don't get these "TEAM" demands and they really make me scratch my head all the time... :tealcanime49:
:cameronanime08b: Who's "demanding"? Anyway, I can't speak for anyone else, but what I meant wasn't that the team should be constantly joined at the hips, just that I'd like to see more of the team interacting.


You don't need all of them on screen together for the whole episode to feel the team working together.
Exactly. :) I just feel that the show has lost some of the "teamy" feeling that it's had for so many years and would like to get it back. And that's saying nothing against BB and CB or Cam and Vala, it includes them. :) On the other hand, one could say that the friendship and/or "teamyness" between Daniel, Sam, and Teal'c are a little more important because they have been together for 10 years and Cam and Vala only 2, but I'd really like it if they were included too. :cameron: :vala:

Dani347
September 11th, 2006, 04:17 PM
I think there's a difference between taking fans (and, um, which fans?) concerns into consideration and apparently letting the fans have almost full control and being penned in as to what to write. That the only reason they didn't either make Vala a part of the team at the beginning of the episode, or that they didn't make Vala do something worthy of being accepted on the team in this episode is because a percentage of people on a message board might not like it. Are they professional writers/directors/producers/show runners -or mice?

I would formulate my idea of team episodes for my "demands" but I feel I would be better off going to my happy place and spending time with Daniel.

Maxum
September 11th, 2006, 04:26 PM
sorry for over generalizing the situation, it is true that "you dont know what you got til its gone" and i feel a few of these miserable negative viewers will realise that soon enough. i didnt mean the term "yank" in a derogatory manner, just in the playful spirit the british and Americans have shared for decades.
As for the last point im a fairly sensitive fella and like a bit of romance almost as much as seeing an ori mothership blowing up.....;)

No problem. Didn't mean to take your head off.


(It's a bad day here in the states.)

nccjones
September 11th, 2006, 04:36 PM
Are you serious? Where's the personal attack? :vala09: And what on earth is it that you think you've "won"?

Not to get into the middle of something that happened a few hours ago, but I hate seeing someone get bullied on a silly message board.

She/he wasn't speaking of you when they mentioned the personal attack. It was from a poster who said "The two quotes above demonstrate why I believe all secondary students the world over should be required to take a basic logic course." Which was pretty uncalled for. We don't have secondary students in the U.S., at least we didn't when I went to school, so I can only imagine they mean Elementary or Jr. High/Middle School students.

Attacking one's education on the basis of an opinion is pretty low considering they don't know anything about them.

Maxum
September 11th, 2006, 04:52 PM
uh, yeah. :mckay:

after YEARS of having the regs thrown in the face of the sam/jack shippers, it really slaps that suddenly they aren't such a big deal for another ship pair. :mad: it's also a bit disheartening to hear some folks say they didn't care for ship, but wouldn't mind daniel/vala... i know sam/jack's situation was very different, but that ship was first and *still* hasn't been resolved... k, i'll quit my whining.

Well, I can only speak for myself, but at least Sam/Jack shippers got some scenes with them together. Granted, the kissing was dream sequences or alternate universes, but you got them just the same. Plus, there was NO doubt about there feelings for each other. Frankly, there were times when the S/J shipping was dominating whole episodes. (I guess the same can be said about Daniel/Vala.)

Now, I don't have a problem with shipping, but I'm glad that Sam and Jack never hooked up "on screen." I think after Jack left the SGC, he and Sam began dating. Also, I know that the U.S. Air Force comes down hard on the show when it sees anything that isn't regulation. I remember hearing that Amanda's hair was too long in one season - not regulation. It was short by the next season. In this way, I can understand why there has never been a J/S shipping. Lastly, if there is an SG-1 movie, and RDA comes back for it, I don't think it would be a good idea to have had these two characters in a romance. I mean, you wouldn't be able to go backwards. Having it implied, is fine because we really don't know for sure. The ambiguity of it all works well.

With regard to Daniel and Vala, those same restrictions don't apply. These two work because there is lots of chemistry, the actors are great, and Daniel has essentially been celibate for just under ten years - actually, after the first episode. I really don't think that a Daniel/Vala relationship would hurt the show, but I DO believe that a Jack/Sam relationship WOULD hurt the show.

Does anyone even know if Cam and Vala characters would transfer to the new versions - movie or miniseries?

ShardsofGlass
September 11th, 2006, 08:49 PM
Is anyone else tired of almost every ep ending with a check on how Vala is feeling? It's as if she's a porcelain doll and we have to touch base with her to make sure she's okay, yet the other characters all just muddle through without the special courtesy. There was the tag of the premiere where everyone was around Vala in the infirmary and she was dealing with Adria; the tag of Morpheus where Vala was in tears becasue she thought she'd failed the psych test; the tag of Counterstrike where she was again bummed out about Adria; and now the tag of this ep where she is happy because she's an official member of the team.

Has any other charactr gotten such individual attention for such a long period of time? I'm getting pretty tired about Vala's feelings taking up so much of the eps, and I really hope MM was the last time in a while that we don't end with a check-in on Vala and her feelings.

Fargater
September 11th, 2006, 09:11 PM
LOL

Well see the thing is that it was written that way. They wrote the car to block them.

They could have written there to be two bikes...with both Sam and Mitchell riding off and telling Teal'c and Daniel to go back inside and contact Landry with an update.

They could have written it so that Mitchell takes a bike and the other 3 take a police car.

They could have written Sam picking a lock to get into the car blocking their way and them using that or Teal'c pushing the car out of the way.

They COULD have done a lot where the team would have been involved as a unit rather than continue the trend of Mitchell running off. AGAIN. I mean, they know it's an issue, thus the " Just out of curiosity, what was the rest of the team doing while your character was fighting the zombies?" comment from Daniel in 200.

They see an issue and yet rather than have Mitchell develop as a team member and functioning within the unit, he continues to run off and do his own thing.
Yeah, I have to admit you make good points about other things they could have done so they could act together as a team. Teal`c pushing the car out of the way would have been awesome, especially since he gets so little to do. I couldn`t go for Sam picking a lock on a police car right in the precinct parking lot, surrounded by cops. And actually either of those actions would have meant guns drawn and lots of `splainin`, and they just didn`t have time for that. They weren`t even in uniform or anything to give the cops pause. Commandeering a car the way Mitchell did the bike would have been better I think. Having another bike for Sam to grab could have been a way to go, but then they`d have to get separated to set up the motel stuff later.

I`ve had plenty to complain about with Mitchell, but just can`t agree in this case that he was just going off alone. The team has split up many times over the years when circumstances called for it, and I just see this as one of those times. Seconds were precious in getting after the bad guys before they lost them. And come to think of it, Mitchell shouldn`t get blamed for grabbing the bike and "running off". Why didn`t the others commandeer a cop car and follow him? It could be said that they just left him to it and didn`t try hard enough to go after Vala themselves. I just can`t put any blame on Mitchell for acting quickly and successfully (well right up to when the guy winged him anyway).

Fargater
September 11th, 2006, 09:21 PM
i guess i should clarify before i'm taken to task for calling vala a pedophile - which i'm not by the way - my point is, i move to paris, i would be expected to learn french adn fit in with the customs of the country. If everyone eats dinner at 8pm and i'm used to eating at 5, well i better get used to eating at 8 or eat at 5 alone

i woudl be judged the most arrogant person in the world if i expected all of paris to learn english to accomodate me or if i expected the whole restaurant to open hours earlier to accomodate me.

as person fits in with where they move to. you don't lose your own culture but you do make it fit where you've moved to.

and 'i'm not from around here' only works as an excuse for so long
When in Rome. . .

suse
September 11th, 2006, 09:38 PM
Yeah... like Vala knew exactly who was onboard the ship she was going to hijack. :comeon: It reminds me Crichton's "Humans are superior!" from Crackers Don't Matter episode in Farscape, but this superiority actually makes me sick in this case.

It's more the fact that she was highjacking any ship (and not a known enemies at that) that shows her untrustworthiness. She is a thief. She stole from Sal also. And got caught. Sal was nice enough to not press charges. But she still stole. Please don't berate me for picking on an amnesiac. It's still a valid point.

Of course no episode of SG-1 would ever stand up to any episode of Farscape :rolleyes:

Suse

majorsal
September 11th, 2006, 10:21 PM
(snip)

Now, I don't have a problem with shipping, but I'm glad that Sam and Jack never hooked up "on screen." I think after Jack left the SGC, he and Sam began dating. Also, I know that the U.S. Air Force comes down hard on the show when it sees anything that isn't regulation. I remember hearing that Amanda's hair was too long in one season - not regulation. It was short by the next season. In this way, I can understand why there has never been a J/S shipping. Lastly, if there is an SG-1 movie, and RDA comes back for it, I don't think it would be a good idea to have had these two characters in a romance. I mean, you wouldn't be able to go backwards. Having it implied, is fine because we really don't know for sure. The ambiguity of it all works well.

With regard to Daniel and Vala, those same restrictions don't apply. These two work because there is lots of chemistry, the actors are great, and Daniel has essentially been celibate for just under ten years - actually, after the first episode. I really don't think that a Daniel/Vala relationship would hurt the show, but I DO believe that a Jack/Sam relationship WOULD hurt the show.



i absolutely don't agree with anything you've just said. so to not make this a total ship discussion, i'll leave it at that.




sally :)

Descent
September 11th, 2006, 10:22 PM
I knew this episode would cause a big ship outbreak.

scarimor
September 12th, 2006, 12:50 AM
It's sad in a way, but unfortunately the internet is powerful and the masses have spoken and TPTB have listened.
*headdesk!*

This is what was meant by "logic".

No one has disputed that the writers sometimes look at fan response and follow it up. Episode 200 is an example of how much they notice.

The argument was over whether the writers conceive, develop and execute their story arc for their character which will be broadcast the following year to avoid a bit of potential dissatisfaction amongst a select few fans on one out of several internet message boards months down the line.

Or whether they have some professional integrity.

Follow?

scarimor
September 12th, 2006, 12:56 AM
Not to get into the middle of something that happened a few hours ago, but I hate seeing someone get bullied on a silly message board.

She/he wasn't speaking of you when they mentioned the personal attack. It was from a poster who said "The two quotes above demonstrate why I believe all secondary students the world over should be required to take a basic logic course." Which was pretty uncalled for. We don't have secondary students in the U.S., at least we didn't when I went to school, so I can only imagine they mean Elementary or Jr. High/Middle School students.

Attacking one's education on the basis of an opinion is pretty low considering they don't know anything about them.
I believe you missed that poster's point, then (a poster who hails from the US, btw). And opinion was not the focus.

Sadly, I suspect the irony of your response (which made me crack up - so thank you for the smiles on this grim, rainy morning!) is lost on you.

:lol:

ShardsofGlass
September 12th, 2006, 05:06 AM
It's an issue for Mitchell though. So much so that they made a point of pointing it out in episode 200. He has a habit of running off and doing his own thing. Oh, btw, add Off the Grid and Collateral Damage to that list as well.

Or it's an issue that the writers saw people complaining about and decided to mock for that reason, which is what my interpretation of the scene was. As for OTG and CD, I don't see him running off in either place at all. I know you disagree, so let's just leave it at that because we've been down this road before.


I wouldn't have complained as much if Sam had taken the bike because she's known for her bike love. I would however have been irritated if she had done so without considering the rest of the team. Simply running off and leaving the others standing there would be supremely out of character for her. She would have told them to take one of the cars or something, not just left them there.

Mitchell threw Daniel the keys to their car, so they weren't stranded. And he has that transmitter, so he wasn't cut off from them. Plus, they saw what he was doing, so it's not like he just disappeared or anything.

I'm not sure why a love of bikes would make Sam more likely to confiscate someone's bike and ride off the way Mitchell did. I just see Mitchell as the action guy and Sam as the study-it-and-figure-out-a-solution guy.

And I hardly think the team was mad at Mitchell for riding off to try to save Vala from a kidnapping. They're not that selfish, and I think they would bow to the immediate need to try to rescue her. Plus, they had the keys, so they weren't stranded.


I never said they had to be together in every scene all the time. I did say however that I'd love to see them actually acting like a team. This used to be the way they worked. As a cohesive unit. Only very rarely did one run off to be the brave hero...in fact, I can't come up with too many options of them acting this way pre-season 9.

As for bringing up Teal'c or Sam, you're mixing apples and oranges here. Teal'c has a habit of being a team player. Sam has a habit of being a team player. Mitchell has a habit for running off and playing the hero. "Just out of curiosity, what was the rest of the team doing while your character was fighting the zombies?"

Nuff said.

I disagree. I thought they acted like a team throughout the ep. I just don't think this is a good example of someone abandoning the team. He was trying to save a team member who was in trouble versus staying with the rest of the team who were perfectly fine. I don't see anything wrong with his actions here. And it's not a "habit" at all, imo. And I don't think I'm mixing apples and organes at all. My other examples were perfect in showing how each character has moments where they do their own thing nad they don't get crucified for it.

Skydiver
September 12th, 2006, 08:15 AM
Is anyone else tired of almost every ep ending with a check on how Vala is feeling? It's as if she's a porcelain doll and we have to touch base with her to make sure she's okay, yet the other characters all just muddle through without the special courtesy. There was the tag of the premiere where everyone was around Vala in the infirmary and she was dealing with Adria; the tag of Morpheus where Vala was in tears becasue she thought she'd failed the psych test; the tag of Counterstrike where she was again bummed out about Adria; and now the tag of this ep where she is happy because she's an official member of the team.

Has any other charactr gotten such individual attention for such a long period of time? I'm getting pretty tired about Vala's feelings taking up so much of the eps, and I really hope MM was the last time in a while that we don't end with a check-in on Vala and her feelings.
it's kinda like 'ranting rodney' over on atlantis. When rod gets pushed, he often goes into a long tear about how impossible it is and all that...cool used sparingly. Yet over used it gets old.

and yes, the 'checking in on vala' does kinda stick out when you're used to: gee daniel yeah, you almost died with 40 people in your head, but you'll be fine...fade to black' and 'yeah sam, know you got kidnapped, but let's not dwell' or 'yeah, teal'c will be fine, now hurry up, the credits have to roll'

the show has a long standing habit of ignoring the emotional impact upon their characters, and fans get used to it. but then to see an almost obsession level with vala and her feelings, especially when you always hear 'yeah, so sam and vala had this scene together but it was cut for time', so you hear about scenes that don't move the plot being cut, but mustn' forget our vala emotional update for the week

It's like the writers came up with the idea of caring for vala, then don't bother to check in with each other to realize that each of them are playing the same card, over and over and over and over and over

sword1986
September 12th, 2006, 10:49 AM
it was great episode and now we now who the blonde hair girl that was with baal when he was getting cloned

michey
September 12th, 2006, 11:18 AM
and yes, the 'checking in on vala' does kinda stick out when you're used to: gee daniel yeah, you almost died with 40 people in your head, but you'll be fine...fade to black' and 'yeah sam, know you got kidnapped, but let's not dwell' or 'yeah, teal'c will be fine, now hurry up, the credits have to roll'

the show has a long standing habit of ignoring the emotional impact upon their characters, and fans get used to it. but then to see an almost obsession level with vala and her feelings, especially when you always hear 'yeah, so sam and vala had this scene together but it was cut for time', so you hear about scenes that don't move the plot being cut, but mustn' forget our vala emotional update for the week

It's like the writers came up with the idea of caring for vala, then don't bother to check in with each other to realize that each of them are playing the same card, over and over and over and over and over

Sorry but I have to disagree, the one thing I reallt felt about this episode was that it wasn't just showing Vala;s feelings, but was showing the tems feelings towards her, and how strong a bond they had actually created with her.

FallenAngelII
September 12th, 2006, 11:24 AM
I thought parts of the episode were good, some were great, but all in all, it was pretty much "meh". The past switched between fast and agonizingly slow and not much actually happened.

The firefight against the Trust was too long and was filmed in such a way that it looked totally un-Stargaty.

Skydiver
September 12th, 2006, 11:48 AM
The firefight against the Trust was too long and was filmed in such a way that it looked totally un-Stargaty.


that's because they're not making STARGATE anymore, they're making some action/adventure soap opera and passing it off as stargate

Zoser
September 12th, 2006, 01:12 PM
Well, I can only speak for myself, but at least Sam/Jack shippers got some scenes with them together. Granted, the kissing was dream sequences or alternate universes, but you got them just the same. Plus, there was NO doubt about there feelings for each other. Frankly, there were times when the S/J shipping was dominating whole episodes. (I guess the same can be said about Daniel/Vala.)

Now, I don't have a problem with shipping, but I'm glad that Sam and Jack never hooked up "on screen." I think after Jack left the SGC, he and Sam began dating. Also, I know that the U.S. Air Force comes down hard on the show when it sees anything that isn't regulation. I remember hearing that Amanda's hair was too long in one season - not regulation. It was short by the next season. In this way, I can understand why there has never been a J/S shipping. Lastly, if there is an SG-1 movie, and RDA comes back for it, I don't think it would be a good idea to have had these two characters in a romance. I mean, you wouldn't be able to go backwards. Having it implied, is fine because we really don't know for sure. The ambiguity of it all works well.

With regard to Daniel and Vala, those same restrictions don't apply. These two work because there is lots of chemistry, the actors are great, and Daniel has essentially been celibate for just under ten years - actually, after the first episode. I really don't think that a Daniel/Vala relationship would hurt the show, but I DO believe that a Jack/Sam relationship WOULD hurt the show.

Does anyone even know if Cam and Vala characters would transfer to the new versions - movie or miniseries?
Jack is not on the show anymore and isn't even mentioned so why would J/S relationship hurt?
And if you haven't noticed the military advisor seems to have gone AWOL.

PG15
September 12th, 2006, 02:45 PM
that's because they're not making STARGATE anymore, they're making some action/adventure soap opera and passing it off as stargate

Must...keep...mouth...shut....

Oh screw it. Stargate has always been an action/adventure soap opera. Want action? Enemies, Nemesis, Lost City, Heroes Part 2, etc. Want adventure? Well, too many to list. Want soap opera? Divide and Conquer, Affinity, Chimera, etc.

Course, just my opinion.

Carl
September 12th, 2006, 02:51 PM
A big disappointment - okay to watch but got very little out of watching it. Just finished writing my review... and it ain't too positive!

Fargater
September 12th, 2006, 02:59 PM
Or it's an issue that the writers saw people complaining about and decided to mock for that reason, which is what my interpretation of the scene was. As for OTG and CD, I don't see him running off in either place at all. I know you disagree, so let's just leave it at that because we've been down this road before.



Mitchell threw Daniel the keys to their car, so they weren't stranded. And he has that transmitter, so he wasn't cut off from them. Plus, they saw what he was doing, so it's not like he just disappeared or anything.

I'm not sure why a love of bikes would make Sam more likely to confiscate someone's bike and ride off the way Mitchell did. I just see Mitchell as the action guy and Sam as the study-it-and-figure-out-a-solution guy.

And I hardly think the team was mad at Mitchell for riding off to try to save Vala from a kidnapping. They're not that selfish, and I think they would bow to the immediate need to try to rescue her. Plus, they had the keys, so they weren't stranded.



I disagree. I thought they acted like a team throughout the ep. I just don't think this is a good example of someone abandoning the team. He was trying to save a team member who was in trouble versus staying with the rest of the team who were perfectly fine. I don't see anything wrong with his actions here. And it's not a "habit" at all, imo. And I don't think I'm mixing apples and organes at all. My other examples were perfect in showing how each character has moments where they do their own thing nad they don't get crucified for it.
Ah! I clean forgot about the car keys toss. Thanks for making yet another good point. :)

Maxum
September 12th, 2006, 04:44 PM
Jack is not on the show anymore and isn't even mentioned so why would J/S relationship hurt?


I only mention that because if RDA comes back to make a feature film with the rest of the cast or a mini-series, how do you skirt around his "romance" with Carter? That's what I mean about J/S relationship would hurt the show. Frankly, the same is true of Daniel and Vala. If the producers are planning on bringing Vala's character into the movie or miniseries (if they go in that direction), then she and Daniel shouldn't hook up either.

You would be watching the movies looking at each of them as couples. It wouldn't work, imo. Now, if Vala is NOT returning after the series ends, then I don't see why they can't have Daniel and her hook up. It can be explained away or ignored completely in the movie.

Again, it all depends on where all this goes after Season 10.

Racingtime
September 12th, 2006, 05:06 PM
With regard to Daniel and Vala, those same restrictions don't apply. These two work because there is lots of chemistry, the actors are great, and Daniel has essentially been celibate for just under ten years - actually, after the first episode. I really don't think that a Daniel/Vala relationship would hurt the show, but I DO believe that a Jack/Sam relationship WOULD hurt the show.

Well as I've said in some other posts and on different sites, I'm not a shipper at all. I didn't want to see Jack/Sam romantically together and I don't want to see Daniel/Vala romantically together either. I don't see any reason for it. There is SO much to be written about the relationships among the team and how they are friends who have become family that it always feels like a waste of time to me to throw in the romantic implications. I'm glad that they've at least decided to keep it in the grey area because that way for those of us who are against the D/V ship, we can still just read their interactions as just caring friendship (since that's all I got from this episode). I just hope they don't decide to go further with it.

Specifically in regards to your post though...why exactly don't those same restrictions apply? As I've said before, the restrictions are in place to keep that kind of relationship from negatively affecting the rest of the team and from affecting their work itself. While I do agree that Daniel and Vala have chemistry, I think Daniel has chemistry with everyone else too and the same goes for Vala. I think they'd miss out to pair D/V up even more than they already do because there are some great scenes to be had when they interact with the other team members too. As for the "celibate" issue, I don't see why that's a problem. It's not as though he needs a romance in order to be happy or feel complete. It's not as though he's been alone all these years, he has his friends/family and he obviously is very absorbed in his job.

Racingtime
September 12th, 2006, 05:13 PM
Frankly, the same is true of Daniel and Vala. If the producers are planning on bringing Vala's character into the movie or miniseries (if they go in that direction), then she and Daniel shouldn't hook up either.

You would be watching the movies looking at each of them as couples. It wouldn't work, imo.

See and I still wouldn't like it even if they did it as an ending thing because for one thing, I think it's kind of sappy and over-used to pair people up romantically just because it's the end of the show. For another more selfish reason, I think it would color how I watch the show after it's all over and I'd rather have the freedom to see them as friends which I don't think I could do if they actually made them a romantic couple.

majorsal
September 12th, 2006, 05:21 PM
I only mention that because if RDA comes back to make a feature film with the rest of the cast or a mini-series, how do you skirt around his "romance" with Carter? That's what I mean about J/S relationship would hurt the show. Frankly, the same is true of Daniel and Vala. If the producers are planning on bringing Vala's character into the movie or miniseries (if they go in that direction), then she and Daniel shouldn't hook up either.

You would be watching the movies looking at each of them as couples. It wouldn't work, imo. Now, if Vala is NOT returning after the series ends, then I don't see why they can't have Daniel and her hook up. It can be explained away or ignored completely in the movie.

Again, it all depends on where all this goes after Season 10.

by not skirting around it. just have them together, then business as usual because couples that work together *can work together* without jumping each other's bones while doing it. it's no biggie, at least to me.




sally :)

Racingtime
September 12th, 2006, 06:40 PM
Agree and I must say I really don't get these "TEAM" demands and they really make me scratch my head all the time... :tealcanime49: You don't need all of them on screen together for the whole episode to feel the team working together.

I'm someone who wants more "Team" but I don't think they have to be on screen together the entire time for it to still feel like a team effort. I just feel like there has been something missing in their interactions lately...I also hope that no issues come up with them being a 5 person team. We saw in the other episode how Sam had to go off alone and that could've been really dangerous.

Also, I do like the characters of Cam and Vala. Well actually I'm on and off with Vala but for the most part I don't mind her and I really do like Cam especially this season. I understand that the writers want to have Cam and Vala interacting one-on-one with each of the other members of SG-1 since Sam, Teal'c, and Daniel have been together for 10 years now and they need to find a way to get Cam and Vala in there as well. In fact, I've thought that this has produced some nice scenes and that they've done an especially nice job integrating Cam since he's had a lot of great moments with Daniel, Sam, and Teal'c each separately. I think they need to work on Vala better in that aspect since she usually only gets separate interaction with Daniel. All that said, we very rarely get any one-on-one interaction between Daniel, Teal'c, or Sam anymore. Just for an example, there are a couple of times that while I liked the Daniel/Mitchell scene, I would've loved to see Teal'c or Sam being the one to talk to Daniel. Same in regards to when Teal'c and Sam need someone to talk to. It just sometimes feels to me that the friendships among the three members of SG-1 that have been together the longest have been thrown to the side in order to establish the relationships with the two new members. While I understand it, I still miss seeing Teal'c, Sam, and Daniel interact. Hope I made some sense with that.

esoap524
September 12th, 2006, 06:42 PM
the show has a long standing habit of ignoring the emotional impact upon their characters, and fans get used to it. but then to see an almost obsession level with vala and her feelings, especially when you always hear 'yeah, so sam and vala had this scene together but it was cut for time', so you hear about scenes that don't move the plot being cut, but mustn' forget our vala emotional update for the week

It's like the writers came up with the idea of caring for vala, then don't bother to check in with each other to realize that each of them are playing the same card, over and over and over and over and over


This is one of the reasons I never quite took to the show, ever: "the show has a long standing habit of ignoring the emotional impact upon their characters..." If they are now "checking in" with Vala, that's totally against the grain of what they've done in the past, thereby making it stand out even more.

If this were par for the course, people might not even give it a thought.

And I hate that they keep cutting the Vala/Sam stuff because I'd bet that's pretty good. That was the best part about "Uninvited"--the parts where we got to see banter and some camaraderie between the two women. It was enjoyable to watch.

scarimor
September 13th, 2006, 01:03 AM
... And I hate that they keep cutting the Vala/Sam stuff because I'd bet that's pretty good. That was the best part about "Uninvited"--the parts where we got to see banter and some camaraderie between the two women. It was enjoyable to watch.
I really hope we get some Sam/Vala scenes before the end. It's the last thing they should cut.

Skydiver
September 13th, 2006, 05:58 AM
And I hate that they keep cutting the Vala/Sam stuff because I'd bet that's pretty good. That was the best part about "Uninvited"--the parts where we got to see banter and some camaraderie between the two women. It was enjoyable to watch.

i don't like the fact that we keep hearing that they'er cutting out most of the character interactions (cept for the vala ship ones that is. daniel/vala, cam/vale seem immune) for 'plot moving scenes'

boys, if you're running out of time to show the charcters in favor of the plot, maybe ya should try some tighter writing. cut out a few bombs to give us bits of the kids talking to each other.

for example, in MM, if vala was gonna be officialy made a member of the team, why couldn't they have had a TEAM dinner, where cam & co were going to give her the new, then have vala snagged from that. it would have tied the final scene in there, given a little teaminess and - my personal preference - lightened up on this obsession with shipping poor vala with anyone and everyone with the right anatomy.

vala and daniel have a connection. cool. got that last season. now share the wealth please. let her interact and talk to the others. I actually quite enjoyed vala during the two eps where daniel was gone. she got to talk to sam and teal'c and it was very refreshing.

esoap524
September 13th, 2006, 06:35 AM
vala and daniel have a connection. cool. got that last season. now share the wealth please. let her interact and talk to the others. I actually quite enjoyed vala during the two eps where daniel was gone. she got to talk to sam and teal'c and it was very refreshing.

I agree! I love the Vala/Teal'c interaction, and the Sam/Vala stuff too. She's almost as annoying to Sam as McKay is...but not quite, because Vala's not arrogant (she's a lot of other things, true...)

It's too bad because the actors themselves all "look" right--and I don't just mean physical attractiveness. But I just loved that scene where Sam and Vala were just sitting there, watching Teal'c. It just looked very comfortable.

*sigh*...well, I guess I'll have to call it missed opportunities, which seems to be the motto of the day.

GhostPoet
September 13th, 2006, 07:16 AM
Wow. Fantastic episode all around. This is for sure a strong character ep that really fleshes out Vala some more and gives her a more diverse character, not to mention really expanding on the relationship between Vala and Daniel.

9/10

Farscapefan
September 13th, 2006, 07:18 AM
Wow. Fantastic episode all around. This is for sure a strong character ep that really fleshes out Vala some more and gives her a more diverse character, not to mention really expanding on the relationship between Vala and Daniel.

9/10

Quoting Mitchell: "See? This is what I'm talking about!" :D

Dani347
September 13th, 2006, 09:35 AM
for example, in MM, if vala was gonna be officialy made a member of the team, why couldn't they have had a TEAM dinner, where cam & co were going to give her the new, then have vala snagged from that. it would have tied the final scene in there, given a little teaminess and - my personal preference - lightened up on this obsession with shipping poor vala with anyone and everyone with the right anatomy.


And, it would also make it clear that Vala's inclusion in the team did not come because she was kidnapped.

Skydiver
September 13th, 2006, 10:24 AM
exactly. by sacrificing that silly bit of dan/val ship, they could have made it clear that daniel, cam, sam and tealc' were all working to recover a missing teammate

I compare this to sateda, which is much the same story. but where sateda rocked as an episode and example of the team caring for their missing teammate along with some lovely moments...but in MM????

sigh, cliches galore, and it's sad because, with some care MM could have been as 'good' (yes, i know good is realtive) as sateda, instead - to some - its just another in a long line of mediocre episodes. it has good bits and pieces, but as a whole doesn't quite gel

Farscapefan
September 13th, 2006, 11:05 AM
exactly. by sacrificing that silly bit of dan/val ship, they could have made it clear that daniel, cam, sam and tealc' were all working to recover a missing teammate

I compare this to sateda, which is much the same story. but where sateda rocked as an episode and example of the team caring for their missing teammate along with some lovely moments...but in MM????

sigh, cliches galore, and it's sad because, with some care MM could have been as 'good' (yes, i know good is realtive) as sateda, instead - to some - its just another in a long line of mediocre episodes. it has good bits and pieces, but as a whole doesn't quite gel

Well, it perfectly gels for shippers :D

Maxum
September 13th, 2006, 03:35 PM
Well as I've said in some other posts and on different sites, I'm not a shipper at all. I didn't want to see Jack/Sam romantically together and I don't want to see Daniel/Vala romantically together either. I don't see any reason for it. There is SO much to be written about the relationships among the team and how they are friends who have become family that it always feels like a waste of time to me to throw in the romantic implications. I'm glad that they've at least decided to keep it in the grey area because that way for those of us who are against the D/V ship, we can still just read their interactions as just caring friendship (since that's all I got from this episode). I just hope they don't decide to go further with it.

There have been plenty of caring, friendship, sacrifice moments between SG-1 over the past ten years. I don't think spending an episode or two on a "romantic" scene is going to turn the show upside down. Frankly, Daniel is the ONLY member of SG-1 who has never been allowed to be in a loving relationship - with the exception of Share, and she left after the very FIRST episode. So Daniel has essentially been alone for ten years. That's nuts!


Specifically in regards to your post though...why exactly don't those same restrictions apply? As I've said before, the restrictions are in place to keep that kind of relationship from negatively affecting the rest of the team and from affecting their work itself. While I do agree that Daniel and Vala have chemistry, I think Daniel has chemistry with everyone else too and the same goes for Vala. I think they'd miss out to pair D/V up even more than they already do because there are some great scenes to be had when they interact with the other team members too. As for the "celibate" issue, I don't see why that's a problem. It's not as though he needs a romance in order to be happy or feel complete. It's not as though he's been alone all these years, he has his friends/family and he obviously is very absorbed in his job.

Daniel has been alone. The ONLY family Daniel has is SG-1. There is no one else. Teal'c has a son and SG-1. Sam has a brother, until recently, a father, Jack, and SG-1; Jack has Sam and SG-1, but Daniel ONLY has SG-1. He's too isolated, imo.

I don't want to see a shipfest on SG-1 either. All I'm saying is for the writers to throw Daniel a bone because he's the only character who has not been allowed to interact on a personal, romantic level with a normal person since the series started. (Like I said, with the exception of Share - but she was gone after the very first episode.)

Dani347
September 13th, 2006, 03:48 PM
I don't get why having SG1 as a family = being alone. Or why, if that's so, he needs a romantic partner to rectify it. So, if Daniel had tons of other friends who he cared about and cared about him, and found out he had a long lost cousin who he became close to, or an aunt, or Nick came back, it would be all for naught because he didn't have a romantic partner?

Maxum
September 13th, 2006, 04:26 PM
I don't get why having SG1 as a family = being alone. Or why, if that's so, he needs a romantic partner to rectify it. So, if Daniel had tons of other friends who he cared about and cared about him, and found out he had a long lost cousin who he became close to, or an aunt, or Nick came back, it would be all for naught because he didn't have a romantic partner?

First of all, I never said Daniel needed a romantic partner. I said he deserved anything in the romance department after ten years, and frankly, anyone who had experienced that type of drought would agree with me. Does this mean I want Daniel with a girlfriend? No. ONE romantic episode would have been nice in ten years. Heck, I almost got close with "Icon," but the writers backed away AGAIN. That's what's annoying. They dangle the carrot constantly.

Secondly, with regard to SG-1 = alone, my point is that the other members of SG-1 can venture outside of SG-1 for companionship. I don't see that same option for Daniel. That's all I'm saying. Never said that SG-1 wasn't a wonderful thing to have in the "friend/family" department. I simply said the other members have other options besides SG-1, and in my opinion that makes Daniel more alone.

There's a reason the man is a workaholic. What or who exactly does he have to go home to?

Dani347
September 13th, 2006, 04:37 PM
I thought he was a workaholic because he loves his work. Just like Sam, to him, his work is fun. I'm not clear on the difference between a romantic partner and something in the romance department. Is something in the romance department a one night stand? But, speaking for myself, I'm cool with my "drought" and don't feel I'm missing anything, so I have a hard time thinking that anyone else automatically would. I'm sure some people do feel bereft because they don't have "something in the romance department" but I'm sure others don't care a bit and don't think there's anything lacking. And, I haven't seen any evidence that Daniel feels his life is missing something. And, some people are fine with living alone. Again, I don't see Daniel feeling any differently.

But, why can't Vala just being a friend be enough to broaden his circle of people?

And, unlike a lot of people, I didn't see Icon as romantic or shippy and I never even saw the carrot come out. But, I'm fine with no episode having romance. As I said on another thread, steel enforced chastity belts. I'll manufacture a line for all SG1 personnel.

Maxum
September 13th, 2006, 04:55 PM
I thought he was a workaholic because he loves his work. Just like Sam, to him, his work is fun. I'm not clear on the difference between a romantic partner and something in the romance department. Is something in the romance department a one night stand? But, speaking for myself, I'm cool with my "drought" and don't feel I'm missing anything, so I have a hard time thinking that anyone else automatically would. I'm sure some people do feel bereft because they don't have "something in the romance department" but I'm sure others don't care a bit and don't think there's anything lacking. And, I haven't seen any evidence that Daniel feels his life is missing something. And, some people are fine with living alone. Again, I don't see Daniel feeling any differently.

But, why can't Vala just being a friend be enough to broaden his circle of people?

And, unlike a lot of people, I didn't see Icon as romantic or shippy and I never even saw the carrot come out. But, I'm fine with no episode having romance. As I said on another thread, steel enforced chastity belts. I'll manufacture a line for all SG1 personnel.

Well, then we should just leave the debate right there. It's kind of pointless, especially since you say you saw nothing in "Icon," even though a definite romance/attraction was stated by the main guest character. Either way, Dani, it's no big deal.

You haver your opinion and I have mine. It's all good.

Racingtime
September 13th, 2006, 10:46 PM
There have been plenty of caring, friendship, sacrifice moments between SG-1 over the past ten years. I don't think spending an episode or two on a "romantic" scene is going to turn the show upside down.

I never said it would turn the show upside down. But what I'm saying is that I don't see any point to it. They only have so much time left in the series and there are those of us who feel that we need as many team interactions as we can get before it's all over and that those are being pushed to the side in favor of having "are they/aren't they" moments.


Frankly, Daniel is the ONLY member of SG-1 who has never been allowed to be in a loving relationship - with the exception of Share, and she left after the very FIRST episode. So Daniel has essentially been alone for ten years. That's nuts!

I don't see why it's nuts. Why does someone NEED to have a romantic relationship? As I've said before, it doesn't make Daniel's life less complete or more lonely just because he doesn't have a girlfriend. I don't see him as being alone just because he doesn't have a girlfriend/wife by his side. Being surrounded by friends/family constantly does not make you alone and Daniel has had them (with the exception of S6 of course..though he did still look in on them).


Daniel has been alone. The ONLY family Daniel has is SG-1. There is no one else. Teal'c has a son and SG-1. Sam has a brother, until recently, a father, Jack, and SG-1; Jack has Sam and SG-1, but Daniel ONLY has SG-1. He's too isolated, imo.

Well I guess that's where we are going to have to majorly disagree. I don't think that being without a romantic relationship means that someone is isolated or alone. He has confided in his teammates and they have been together through thick and thin. Teal'c may have a son but his son is fully grown and married and even before that they rarely saw each other. To be fair, I don't agree with you listing Jack separately from SG-1 in Sam's category and vice versa considering they never had an actual romantic relationship. While Daniel's only family is SG-1, that's certainly not insubstantial. The fact that he has them to go to and confide in and to trust above all things shows me that he hasn't been alone.


All I'm saying is for the writers to throw Daniel a bone because he's the only character who has not been allowed to interact on a personal, romantic level with a normal person since the series started. (Like I said, with the exception of Share - but she was gone after the very first episode.)

We haven't really seen huge romances with any of the characters on SG-1. In fact, despite Sha're being gone after the first episode (though she was around for two others as well), I'd say that with Sha're, Daniel has had one of the most personal and romantic relationships of the group even in the limited time we got to see them together. JMO.

Racingtime
September 13th, 2006, 11:03 PM
anyone who had experienced that type of drought would agree with me.

I think it depends on the person because not everyone would agree.


Secondly, with regard to SG-1 = alone, my point is that the other members of SG-1 can venture outside of SG-1 for companionship. I don't see that same option for Daniel.

Well technically then even if he were to go for Vala, he still wouldn't be venturing outside of SG-1 for companionship.


I simply said the other members have other options besides SG-1, and in my opinion that makes Daniel more alone.

Can't speak for Jack since we don't know for sure what he's up to at the moment, but over the years it's been made pretty clear that SG-1 always has come above and beyond any of their other outside relationships. So the way I always saw it is that they all had the option to pursue other relationships, they just didn't choose to do so.


There's a reason the man is a workaholic. What or who exactly does he have to go home to?

Again though, what do any of the others have to "go home to"? Teal'c lives on base. Sam may have her brother but IMO the others on SG-1 have become even closer brothers to her than her own blood one so I don't see that as putting her above Daniel in that regard. Also though, you may consider the idea that Daniel isn't a workaholic because he doesn't have anything to go home to but rather he's a workaholic because he genuinely loves the work and is happiest when he's doing it. From what we've heard of his college years, he's always been like that.

Pitry
September 14th, 2006, 03:27 AM
Yknow, I was actually getting my hopes up after the AOL vingette about this episode..... a shame, really, that the pieces broken together make for much a better episode than the whole.
Wouldn't have hurt not to follow the Hollywood cliche actio-movie-book page by page. Hell, even Hollywood cliche action movies don't do it anymore.

Biggest rant: If this is the episode to get Vala into the team, couldn't we, like, get a team episode? Y'know, one that actually has SG1 members in it... Okay, so there was a little Daniel, a little less Mitchell, and where were Teal'c and that Colonel Person (TM @Jeannie McKay)? I don't accept anymore that it's because of the crossover that Sam had to be thrown compeltely and utterly into the background. McKay managed to be a part in all th episodes they shot together with Pegasus Project.
Oh, and yeah - his teammates are being shot at by bad Trust guys, and Daniel sits around looking for Vala? Huh? Since when, exactly?

This episode... okay, it could have been worse. But you know, I dind't even feel it contributed to Vala's character. It dind't develop her one inch, I feel, unlike Counterstrike that managed to do just that. As a person who's become quite the Vala and CB fan, Memento Mori didn't do any justice neither to the character nor the actress.

And can they stop with the shipping, please? I enjoyed it last year a bit, but this year I like much more hte friendship part between Daniel and Vala, not ship. I don't mind the one-sided bit, I agree Vala is written (and played by Claudia) compeltely in love with Daniel, but I'd rather it won't be two sided or even hinted at two sided (and I'm sorry, if Daniel didn't say anything to nayone about that dinner, it was a date) - but, well, at least, LAndry's "what the hell are you doing" look at Daniel was somewhat funny. So please, spare me. Not to mention the completely and utterly cheesy Daniel flashback at the end of the episode.

Teal'c's interrogation techniques... were worth a chuckle - back when it was first used in Smoke and Mirrors. It's not a joke to be used twice. Please?

...Why is Athena a minor Goa'uld and why on Earth? She was one of the major Greek gods. I'll old back the rest of the critisism I have about that. Can they please just kill the Trust? Please? Keep Ba'al alive, oh, yeah (but kill his clones...) - but get rid of the Trust.

I have to say, the part I enjoyed the most was probably the conversation between Vala and Mitchell in the hotel. "Alien abduction in as much as you're an alien who's been abducted".. ;)

Y'know, I recall RCC claiming this was supposed to be a plot episode? It was about as relevant as Uninvited - and much less than Insiders. Unless the "key to infinite treasure" is actually Merlin's weapon or something, I have to say I don't see what he was referring to. Unless Daniel/ Vala ship has suddenly become relevant to the plot.

Yup, Joe Mallozzi should go back to writing plot episodes, he does that much better. Sigh?

Dani347
September 14th, 2006, 10:07 AM
(and I'm sorry, if Daniel didn't say anything to nayone about that dinner, it was a date)


Just another issue with the episode. Would Daniel really be able to take Vala out of the SGC for a secret outing? She was still on probation at the start of the episode, and I doubt she could just go wandering around Earth, even with her babysitter. Not without at least getting permission from Daddy (Landry) to go outside.

Skydiver
September 14th, 2006, 10:23 AM
daniel had to have gotten landry's permission and likely, out of courtesy, told cam (following that whole chain of command thing)

'mitch, i want to take vala out and get some dinner? is that ok with you?' followed by 'general, i'd like permission to take vala off the base for a few hours, maybe tomorrow night from 7 to 10pm. yeah, we're gonna go eat here and if something happens, walter has my cell number'

remember the trouble jack got into for taking merrin off base without permission?

Farscapefan
September 14th, 2006, 10:29 AM
With analyzing such details do you folks even have a shadow of fun watching the show?

Dani347
September 14th, 2006, 10:50 AM
Why can't people have fun because they analyze? I don't get it. This is my fun.

Plus, I'm not struggling to find stuff to dislike, and I don't struggle to find stuff to like. It's just there, whether I take the time to analyze it or not. But, coming on to a forum and going over those details is how I like to spend my time.

Pitry
September 14th, 2006, 11:50 AM
No, I nitpick at episodes I enjoy as well as those I don't enjoy. It's a hobby of mine - I just enjoy doing it. I've been watching this show for a long long time - I got used to notice all those things and comment on them, as well.

It doesn't affect my enjoyment of the episode. I didn't enjoy this episode as mucha s the majority of season 10 for... well, the 12 or so hours I saw it before I got to comment. ;) I don't think it's the most horrible thing I've ever seen, despite my tone - if you'd like to see how I sound when I analyse that, I'd be happy to send detailed description of... er, Grace. Or Revisions! Definitely Revisions.

That'd be nitpicking. ;)

(so generally, I agree with Dani, minus the time bit. Working 12 hours a day for the past two days has murdered my free time.)

*tired*

scarimor
September 14th, 2006, 12:21 PM
With analyzing such details do you folks even have a shadow of fun watching the show?
Loadsa fun thanks for asking.

Skydiver
September 14th, 2006, 01:42 PM
analyzing is half the fun.

there are shows that invite analysis. lost, stargate, bsg and others

then there's fluff like Las Vegas that's a fun way to mindlessly kill an hour enjoying the eye candy

to me, if a show engages my mind and creativity, i have more fun with it and don't want to miss it, as opposed to fluff that i'll just catch on a re-run, if i remember

Shipperahoy
September 14th, 2006, 02:01 PM
Well we all know you can't possibly be a "twu fan" if you actually criticize the show.:rolleyes: Because I critique the show that must mean that I spend all of my free time poring over every single frame of said show to the detriment of my social life, which of course must be non-existent. I'll never know how I could possibly have found the time to bring my son in to this world and get him to kindergarten age. Of course now he's getting old enough to learn how to use a computer so I can just plop him down in front of one. An actual net-nanny.;) Sorry, the sarcasm just came spewing out. It's like a version of computer tourettes.:)

As far as Daniel taking Vala out on their "date" without anybody knowing about it, I chalk it up to what I like to call the "Hey look over there!" style of writing. It's where writers try to cover up the implausibility of something by pointing to something else i.e. "Aww they're on a date! Sooooo cuuuute!".

Dani347
September 14th, 2006, 02:11 PM
Well we all know you can't possibly be a "twu fan" if you actually criticize the show.:rolleyes: Because I critique the show that must mean that I spend all of my free time poring over every single frame of said show to the detriment of my social life, which of course must be non-existent. I'll never know how I could possibly have found the time to bring my son in to this world and get him to kindergarten age. Of course now he's getting old enough to learn how to use a computer so I can just plop him down in front of one. An actual net-nanny.;) Sorry, the sarcasm just came spewing out. It's like a version of computer tourettes.:)


Plop him in front of the computer and train him analyze and criticize the show frame by frame. All of us who criticize can do that. I'll even spawn a child for the sake of the cause. The future is ours!

Farscapefan
September 14th, 2006, 02:14 PM
As far as Daniel taking Vala out on their "date" without anybody knowing about it, I chalk it up to what I like to call the "Hey look over there!" style of writing. It's where writers try to cover up the implausibility of something by pointing to something else i.e. "Aww they're on a date! Sooooo cuuuute!".

IMO, Vala's probation could have been not that tight at the moment, especially that they were planning to make her finally the team member oficially and Daniel perhaps was allowed to take her outside the base without asking Landry's permission.

suse
September 14th, 2006, 02:28 PM
IMO, Vala's probation could have been not that tight at the moment, especially that they were planning to make her finally the team member oficially and Daniel perhaps was allowed to take her outside the base without asking Landry's permission.

Talk about overanylizing...or making excuses for the (relaitively minor) plot hole for the awesome greatness that is S9/S10 (starring !!!!!!!Claudia!!!!!!Black.!!!!!!!)./sarcasm

Suse
who rather likes Claudia, just not her (slightly improved) character

Maxum
September 14th, 2006, 03:27 PM
I never said it would turn the show upside down. But what I'm saying is that I don't see any point to it. They only have so much time left in the series and there are those of us who feel that we need as many team interactions as we can get before it's all over and that those are being pushed to the side in favor of having "are they/aren't they" moments.

Believe it or not, I'm not trying to state that SG-1 should suddenly become the love boat. I simply stated a SCENE for Daniel would be nice. One. Single. Moment. I don't think that's so much to ask, and it doesn't have to be a ten minute thing. I would just like to see the guy happy, and it certainly would not take away from all the other moments that the writers can dream up. The writers waste plenty of time watching the team walking, and walking, and walking. THAT'S wasted time, imo. Also, just because YOU don't see a point to it doesn't mean other posters do see a point to it. (just saying)



I don't see why it's nuts. Why does someone NEED to have a romantic relationship? As I've said before, it doesn't make Daniel's life less complete or more lonely just because he doesn't have a girlfriend. I don't see him as being alone just because he doesn't have a girlfriend/wife by his side. Being surrounded by friends/family constantly does not make you alone and Daniel has had them (with the exception of S6 of course..though he did still look in on them).

So, I guess you've gone for ten years without any interaction with the opposite sex and find that perfectly normal? I, personally, think it's a little nuts. Eh, it could just be me. Second, and MOST important, I NEVER stated that Daniel's lonely because he doesn't have a girlfriend. Never said it. What I said is that Daniel is alone, apart from SG-1 - that means, no parents, no siblings, no grandparents, no cousins, nothing. Again, maybe it's me, but I find that a little isolating. Is it going to kill Daniel not to have these things? No. He adores Sam, Jack, and Teal'c, and I fully admit that they are all the family he needs. It still doesn't negate the fact that beyond them he has no one else. I don't know why this is such a problem to just admit.



Well I guess that's where we are going to have to majorly disagree. I don't think that being without a romantic relationship means that someone is isolated or alone. He has confided in his teammates and they have been together through thick and thin. Teal'c may have a son but his son is fully grown and married and even before that they rarely saw each other. To be fair, I don't agree with you listing Jack separately from SG-1 in Sam's category and vice versa considering they never had an actual romantic relationship. While Daniel's only family is SG-1, that's certainly not insubstantial. The fact that he has them to go to and confide in and to trust above all things shows me that he hasn't been alone.

Again, NEVER said that Daniel needs a girlfriend to not be lonely. All I said was that Daniel is isolated, which apart from SG-1, he is. A person can be isolated by lack of family, lack of friends, lack of interaction on a platonic level. Also, when did I ever state the Daniel's relationship with SG-1 is insubstantial. I simply stated that Jack, Sam and Teal'c are the only family Daniel has, while they do have other people in their lives. It doesn't matter that you didn't actually SEE a romantic moment between Jack and Sam. It's been implied ad nauseum. Please.


We haven't really seen huge romances with any of the characters on SG-1. In fact, despite Sha're being gone after the first episode (though she was around for two others as well), I'd say that with Sha're, Daniel has had one of the most personal and romantic relationships of the group even in the limited time we got to see them together. JMO.

Again, I DON'T care about a whole big romance. Sam had a huge romance with Pete and almost got married. Jack and Teal'c also had their encounters, and Daniel's "moment" with Share lasted one episode in year one. All I said is that it would be nice before the tenth Season ends if Daniel had a single scene with someone. That's all. It could be a one minute scene, it could be a ten second scene. Neither will take away from the story, the SG-1 legacy, or the characters themselves. If the writers decide never to give Daniel a romantic scene, a girlfriend, or whatever, I certainly won't cry a river over it. It's just something that, as a viewer who has been watching for ten years, it would have been nice to see. Maybe it's the woman in me, maybe it's the sap in me. Whatever. Geez, I didn't expect to get everybody's panties into a twist over it.

Dani347
September 14th, 2006, 03:43 PM
So, a single scene would be enough to satisfy Daniel's apparent isolation?

I also don't understand the Jack and Sam thing, or why Jack has someone outside of SG1 because there's some alleged thing between them. Jack still, as far as we know, only has the members of SG1. Unless Sam splits into another person and is SG1!Sam and her clone is Jack'sSnookums!Sam, it still equals the same people, all on SG1. Jack has Daniel, Sam, and Teal'c. Heck, since he's not around on a regular basis to form a relationship with the new members, he has less than Daniel who has Sam, Teal'c, Jack, Mitchell and Vala (even if it isn't ship). And, if it did become ship, the number of people he was connected to wouldn't change, and since Vala is now a part of SG1, he would still not have anyone outside of SG1 to connect to, so the isolation would still be there.

And, as far as what's normal for a person in terms of romantic or one night stands, I say whatever makes you happy is normal.

BTW, I really am honestly curious (cat killing curious) as to how pairing up with someone on SG1 helps solve the problem of not having anyone but SG1.

full.infinity
September 14th, 2006, 03:56 PM
BTW, I really am honestly curious (cat killing curious) as to how pairing up with someone on SG1 helps solve the problem of not having anyone but SG1.
That's an easy one. MAGNETS!

Skydiver
September 14th, 2006, 04:02 PM
IMO, Vala's probation could have been not that tight at the moment, especially that they were planning to make her finally the team member oficially and Daniel perhaps was allowed to take her outside the base without asking Landry's permission.
your logic is flawed.

teal'c, YEARS after being an official member of the team, had to get permission to leave the base and, quite often, didnt' leave alone. in fact, it wasn't until season EIGHT that teal'c was able to leave the base unescorted

I can't see landry saying 'no, vala can't leave' unless she had a record of misbehaving in public, however i can see daniel asking landry, landry warning him to warn her to watch what she says and remind her to keep her mouth shut about teh sgc, and then saying 'ok, have fun, but remember, you're responsible for her. you take her out of here, you need to bring her back'

Daniel asking for permission however, is yet another of those 'non-plot moving' scenes (not to mention a pesky technicality) which is why it wasn't mentioned. it's up to the viewers to ASSUME that daniel asked for and got permission

Shipperahoy
September 14th, 2006, 04:13 PM
BTW, I really am honestly curious (cat killing curious) as to how pairing up with someone on SG1 helps solve the problem of not having anyone but SG1.

That sounds like one of those mind-bending questions with no real answer like time travel paradox and how could someone have given Kevin Federline a recording contract.

Maxum
September 14th, 2006, 04:15 PM
So, a single scene would be enough to satisfy Daniel's apparent isolation?

I also don't understand the Jack and Sam thing, or why Jack has someone outside of SG1 because there's some alleged thing between them. Jack still, as far as we know, only has the members of SG1. Unless Sam splits into another person and is SG1!Sam and her clone is Jack'sSnookums!Sam, it still equals the same people, all on SG1. Jack has Daniel, Sam, and Teal'c. Heck, since he's not around on a regular basis to form a relationship with the new members, he has less than Daniel who has Sam, Teal'c, Jack, Mitchell and Vala (even if it isn't ship). And, if it did become ship, the number of people he was connected to wouldn't change, and since Vala is now a part of SG1, he would still not have anyone outside of SG1 to connect to, so the isolation would still be there.

And, as far as what's normal for a person in terms of romantic or one night stands, I say whatever makes you happy is normal.

BTW, I really am honestly curious (cat killing curious) as to how pairing up with someone on SG1 helps solve the problem of not having anyone but SG1.

Dani, your first sentence is ridiculous, and I won't even dignify it with a reply. If you honestly can't comprehend what I was trying to say in my last three or four posts, nothing is going to help you understand it. Nothing personal, but you're taking a very simple statement that a long time fan has regarding one character and turning it into a discertation. Overall, I don't care if something happens for Daniel or doesn't. It's not going to stop me from watching the show, it's not going to affect HOW I watch it, and I'm certainly not going to be upset if I don't get a "Danny moment." Who cares over the grand scheme of things. All I said is that I would like to see it because it would simply be nice to see. Why that upsets you so much is beyond me. It's really not a big deal.

Dani347
September 14th, 2006, 04:15 PM
Daniel asking for permission however, is yet another of those 'non-plot moving' scenes (not to mention a pesky technicality) which is why it wasn't mentioned. it's up to the viewers to ASSUME that daniel asked for and got permission

I think it was more the surprised looks on everyone's faces at the end when Vala mentioned their "date" that makes it seem like no one knew where they were at the time, rather than not showing a scene of Daniel asking permission. If they had known, wouldn't they have shrugged off Vala's date comment? This is the same woman who said she had sex with Daniel and was pregnant.

Fargater
September 14th, 2006, 04:15 PM
I thought he was a workaholic because he loves his work. Just like Sam, to him, his work is fun. I'm not clear on the difference between a romantic partner and something in the romance department. Is something in the romance department a one night stand? But, speaking for myself, I'm cool with my "drought" and don't feel I'm missing anything, so I have a hard time thinking that anyone else automatically would. I'm sure some people do feel bereft because they don't have "something in the romance department" but I'm sure others don't care a bit and don't think there's anything lacking. And, I haven't seen any evidence that Daniel feels his life is missing something. And, some people are fine with living alone. Again, I don't see Daniel feeling any differently.


Amen.

Fargater
September 14th, 2006, 04:26 PM
i don't like the fact that we keep hearing that they'er cutting out most of the character interactions (cept for the vala ship ones that is. daniel/vala, cam/vale seem immune) for 'plot moving scenes'

boys, if you're running out of time to show the charcters in favor of the plot, maybe ya should try some tighter writing. cut out a few bombs to give us bits of the kids talking to each other.

for example, in MM, if vala was gonna be officialy made a member of the team, why couldn't they have had a TEAM dinner, where cam & co were going to give her the new, then have vala snagged from that. it would have tied the final scene in there, given a little teaminess and - my personal preference - lightened up on this obsession with shipping poor vala with anyone and everyone with the right anatomy.

vala and daniel have a connection. cool. got that last season. now share the wealth please. let her interact and talk to the others. I actually quite enjoyed vala during the two eps where daniel was gone. she got to talk to sam and teal'c and it was very refreshing.
Brilliant! Yeah, having her get snagged from a team dinner wouldn`t have hurt anything. They could have had them all looking for her and then wondering just what had happened, or even if they thought something was amiss immediately they still could have played out the rest of the episode almost the same as they did since they`d still be looking for her.


I keep reading ideas from people here that make me wish you all were writing for the show, or at least consulting in an official capacity.

majorsal
September 14th, 2006, 04:43 PM
Well I guess that's where we are going to have to majorly disagree. I don't think that being without a romantic relationship means that someone is isolated or alone. He has confided in his teammates and they have been together through thick and thin. Teal'c may have a son but his son is fully grown and married and even before that they rarely saw each other. To be fair, I don't agree with you listing Jack separately from SG-1 in Sam's category and vice versa considering they never had an actual romantic relationship. While Daniel's only family is SG-1, that's certainly not insubstantial. The fact that he has them to go to and confide in and to trust above all things shows me that he hasn't been alone.



they've shown through the *years* that they're in love with one another. the only thing stopping them is the ptb moving forward with them actually being in a relationship. just saying'. ;)

as for daniel/vala ship. i'm a total and complete shipper in body and mind, and even though i don't dig 'this' ship, i understand why it's there and i respect the d/v shippers wanting it there. while i personally don't want daniel to end up with vala (i don't feel their spark), i don't mind the idea of shipping for daniel at all. or for any of them. but it ain't up to me, so if you (ptb) ship them, let them interact with others as well. AND IF THIS IS THE LAST CHANCE FOR ANY SHIPS, RESOLVE THE SAM/JACK SHIP FIRST. :D





sally :)

majorsal
September 14th, 2006, 04:54 PM
With analyzing such details do you folks even have a shadow of fun watching the show?

we used to, before the show started being written by numbers. (but then again, farscapefan, *we* have actual history with the show)





sally :)

majorsal
September 14th, 2006, 04:58 PM
I don't think it's the most horrible thing I've ever seen, despite my tone - if you'd like to see how I sound when I analyse that, I'd be happy to send detailed description of... er, Grace. Or Revisions! Definitely Revisions.



mine would be 'chimera'. i could write a war and peace sized critique on it. :p (title: 'how to destroy a storyline and smudge a character (sam) in one easy step')






sally :)

majorsal
September 14th, 2006, 05:12 PM
I think it was more the surprised looks on everyone's faces at the end when Vala mentioned their "date" that makes it seem like no one knew where they were at the time, rather than not showing a scene of Daniel asking permission. If they had known, wouldn't they have shrugged off Vala's date comment? This is the same woman who said she had sex with Daniel and was pregnant.

maybe (guessing here, since the script was playing hide and seek, as usual, with the details) what everyone responded to was that vala called it a date? they all knew vala's attraction to daniel, so maybe they were questioning him taking vala on a so-called date? like, 'why are you leading her on, man!?'

oh, i don't know. :p





sally :)

majorsal
September 14th, 2006, 05:15 PM
Brilliant! Yeah, having her get snagged from a team dinner wouldn`t have hurt anything. They could have had them all looking for her and then wondering just what had happened, or even if they thought something was amiss immediately they still could have played out the rest of the episode almost the same as they did since they`d still be looking for her.


I keep reading ideas from people here that make me wish you all were writing for the show, or at least consulting in an official capacity.

it wasn't a team moment (with vala being kidnapped) because the writers were shipping daniel and vala together. they set it off officially in this ep. (still waits for her own ship (s/j) to officially dock at the port of resolution :p)




sally :)

DEM
September 14th, 2006, 08:26 PM
Just had the best laugh. Watching The Last Shot about an FBI agent working undercover making a fake movie. Scene: Studio Suits giving Joe the Producer script feedback.

Abe White, A Suit:
[reading] "While we love the emotional journey that Charlotte takes in this script, we feel there are things that could make this story more accessible to a general audience. Number one: a high-speed motorcycle chase." :lol:

The laughter had barely subsided when Sydney, NSW native Toni Collette -- playing the actor playing the lead character -- showed up two scenes later and distracted/manipulated the producer & director by showing lots o' skin.

Smirk.

Farscapefan
September 15th, 2006, 12:48 AM
your logic is flawed.

teal'c, YEARS after being an official member of the team, had to get permission to leave the base and, quite often, didnt' leave alone. in fact, it wasn't until season EIGHT that teal'c was able to leave the base unescorted

I can't see landry saying 'no, vala can't leave' unless she had a record of misbehaving in public, however i can see daniel asking landry, landry warning him to warn her to watch what she says and remind her to keep her mouth shut about teh sgc, and then saying 'ok, have fun, but remember, you're responsible for her. you take her out of here, you need to bring her back'

Daniel asking for permission however, is yet another of those 'non-plot moving' scenes (not to mention a pesky technicality) which is why it wasn't mentioned. it's up to the viewers to ASSUME that daniel asked for and got permission

Well... yeah, but Teal'c isn't looking exactly like an Earth human. And Vala is. This is I think the main difference.

Farscapefan
September 15th, 2006, 12:52 AM
I think it was more the surprised looks on everyone's faces at the end when Vala mentioned their "date" that makes it seem like no one knew where they were at the time, rather than not showing a scene of Daniel asking permission. If they had known, wouldn't they have shrugged off Vala's date comment? This is the same woman who said she had sex with Daniel and was pregnant.

Oh yeah... how convenient to remember the BAD things only. Right. But perhaps Daniel remembers that exactly the same woman SAVED HIS LIFE taking the shot which was aimed at him. Give me a break... :mckay:

Agent_Dark
September 15th, 2006, 01:00 AM
Well... yeah, but Teal'c isn't looking exactly like an Earth human. And Vala is. This is I think the main difference.
O.o

Christopher Judge looks pretty human to me... It's not like he's wearing prosthetics for his role.

scarimor
September 15th, 2006, 01:15 AM
Abe White, A Suit:
[reading] "While we love the emotional journey that Charlotte takes in this script, we feel there are things that could make this story more accessible to a general audience. Number one: a high-speed motorcycle chase."

The laughter had barely subsided when Sydney, NSW native Toni Collette -- playing the actor playing the lead character -- showed up two scenes later and distracted/manipulated the producer & director by showing lots o' skin.

Smirk.
Get out of here! That's too much :valaanime06: Cue Twilight Zone music.

scarimor
September 15th, 2006, 01:17 AM
O.o

Christopher Judge looks pretty human to me... It's not like he's wearing prosthetics for his role.
http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f30/scarimor/samsurprised.gif Yeah. He just wears a hat or something to cover his tattoo. I don't get either.

Dani347
September 15th, 2006, 01:38 AM
Oh yeah... how convenient to remember the BAD things only. Right. But perhaps Daniel remembers that exactly the same woman SAVED HIS LIFE taking the shot which was aimed at him. Give me a break... :mckay:


What on earth does the fact that SG1 & Landry know that Vala likes to tease Daniel with sexual references have to do with saving his life???? And, how does Daniel's rememberance have anything whatsoever to do with what I posted? My post was about the others knowing Vala and knowing to take references to romance/sex between her and Daniel with a grain of salt. It had absolutely nothing to do with how Daniel felt or what Daniel remembers. Daniel was really a very minor part of my post.


Oh, and I never said any of that was bad. You did.

Pitry
September 15th, 2006, 02:22 AM
Yeah. He just wears a hat or something to cover his tattoo. I don't get either.

*cough* or doesn't and everyone still thinks it's okay... Yeah, plausibility is such a great thing. ;)

As for whether people knew or not they were out for dinner, for me it was the part I did enjoy about the reaction - Landry's WTF look and shrug at Daniel - that said he didn't know.

Agent_Dark
September 15th, 2006, 05:04 AM
*cough* or doesn't and everyone still thinks it's okay... Yeah, plausibility is such a great thing. ;)

As for whether people knew or not they were out for dinner, for me it was the part I did enjoy about the reaction - Landry's WTF look and shrug at Daniel - that said he didn't know.
Well, when you get down to it, I've seen alot of people do stranger things to their bodies than wear gold emblems on their foreheads.

Skydiver
September 15th, 2006, 05:24 AM
well, if they honestly meant to imply that daniel just larked off and took vala out and didn't get permission/clear it with anyone, strike another point for 'screw plausibilty/reality, we gotta have fun'

because, procedure would be for daniel to get permission and clear it with his bosses. if for no other reason than to cover his own tush because, if she misbehaved in any way, said something, did something that exposed the program (you know, like getting kidnapped and having to get the police involved, thus having to explain how this missing person is a nobody that popped out of thin air and doesn't have a past, ID or anything, thus forcing the Air Force to scramble and create a past for this person teh police are looking for)

basically, even if it wasn't daniel's fault that she got kidnapped, if daniel took vala out without permission, it WOULD be his fault that he exposed her to the risk and nearly got her killed. He, if he took her out without permission, would be responsible for her being kidnapped since she was made vulnerable by his decision

however, if he got permission from landry and let cam know, hey, responsibility is on thier shoulders and if anyone from the joint chiefs has an issue with an alien getting 'loose' and the resulting publicity, it lands in Landry's lap

for me? Daniel is a responsible and considerate adult. He'd have asked for permission.

KatG
September 15th, 2006, 10:20 AM
So the show is suddenly getting canceled and Stargate fans are becoming Stargate haters. That's not to say that you have to like every episode. But because this episode didn't take place in a space ship with explosions and tons of action it becomes a bad episode? I used to think Stargate wasn't about explosions or space ships. I thought it was supposed to be about characters and plot development. We got that here. We even got team bonding.

Did we get character development? What did we learn about Vala, other than the fact that she pissed off another Gould when she was Q'tesh? That's not really a surprise is it? It seems that she pissed alot of people off when she was Q'tesh and even after she wasn't. Let's see, we found out that she can fight, but we knew that from Prometheus unbound. We found out she was curious and quick on her feet and likes to tease Daniel, but then we knew that too. So I don't really see any character development. Why not actually let us see Vala's memories, kind of like they did with Sam and Jack and Martouf in Jolinar's Memories/The Devil You Know. Show us what she was like as Q'tesh. Show us what she was like right after Q'tesh was removed. This could have been so much more. But it just wasn't. It was as someone said just surface stuff.

As for team bonding, where? I saw Cambo leave everyone behind and ride off to the rescue. I saw her bond with Daniel there at the end and I saw them give her the patch and say she earned it, but I have yet to see what in this episode made them take that step and make her a member of the team.

I do have to give CB credit though. She took a subpar script and acted her heart out, and did a great job with what she was given. She just wasn't given much, imo.

Albion
September 15th, 2006, 10:50 AM
*cough* or doesn't and everyone still thinks it's okay... Yeah, plausibility is such a great thing.

I don't see why not. Personally, I've never understood why the gold emblem was such a worry to the SGC that Teal'c had to have a collection of hats to wear whenever he went outside. As Agent Dark points out - and I completely agree - we see strangers walking down the street all the time with all manner of body adornments, many of them positively bizarre. I really don't think that anyone would look at Teal'c twice in this world and this time. And if anyone did think to ask what it was about, any number of throwaway excuses would work and never be questioned too deeply.

Now, whereas I don't believe the emblem constitutes any problem, I think the main reason that Teal'c was banned from going outside was probably more to do with the fact that he had a kangaroo pouch in his stomach for several years. ;) What if he had an accident while he was out there roaming around? Run over by a car? Slight shock for the ambulance staff and the doc who tried to help. Cue instant tabloid headlines.

And then there was the possibility of a symbiote leaping out of said pouch and getting loose among the population of Earth. Probably not too likely, but I'm sure it worried the security services a whole lot and helped ensure Teal'c stayed on base all those years. You know how paranoid those guys can be and even the slightest risk of alien contamination would have been too much for them to accept.

Having said that, none of that applied to Teal'c after he went onto tritonan and they still wouldn't let him leave the base on his own. And Jonas looked perfectly human, had no such considerations to worry about, and was still barred from leaving the base for several months after joining the SGC.

So the Vala/Human -v- Teal'c/Alien theory doesn't really hold a lot of water. Especially when you add Jonas into the mix.

So I do find it somewhat surprising that they would let Vala out so soon, especially when she hasn't the faintest idea of the notion of discretion, can't keep her big mouth shut, and surely represents a huge security risk for that reason alone.

Looking like favouritism to me.

But then I've given up looking for the military accuracy and attention to realistic detail on this show anymore. So can't say that it really surprises me that Vala gets what everyone else didn't. Clearly, these days, the writers will write what suits them to get to their plot. Regardless of how much sense it makes or doesn't make.



Albion :)

DEM
September 15th, 2006, 10:55 AM
I don't see why not. Personally, I've never understood why the gold emblem was such a worry to the SGC that Teal'c had to have a collection of hats to wear whenever he went outside. As Agent Dark points out - and I completely agree - we see strangers walking down the street all the time with all manner of body adornments, many of them positively bizarre. I really don't think that anyone would look at Teal'c twice in this world and this time.Great post, Albion! However, I don't agree completely with this assertion about Teal'c's emblem. No, it may not look "alien", but it doesn't look "middle of the road", either. "Gold emblem in middle of forehead" would work against the image SG-1 would be trying to represent out there in the real world. :D Therefore, I understand their desire for discretion. :tealc:

Dani347
September 15th, 2006, 10:58 AM
I don't see why not. Personally, I've never understood why the gold emblem was such a worry to the SGC that Teal'c had to have a collection of hats to wear whenever he went outside. As Agent Dark points out - and I completely agree - we see strangers walking down the street all the time with all manner of body adornments, many of them positively bizarre. I really don't think that anyone would look at Teal'c twice in this world and this time. And if anyone did think to ask what it was about, any number of throwaway excuses would work and never be questioned too deeply.

Now, whereas I don't believe the emblem constitutes any problem, I think the main reason that Teal'c was banned from going outside was probably more to do with the fact that he had a kangaroo pouch in his stomach for several years. ;) What if he had an accident while he was out there roaming around? Run over by a car? Slight shock for the ambulance staff and the doc who tried to help. Cue instant tabloid headlines.

Also, there have been a couple of times when people have seen his tattoo, and it didn't cause mass panic or "the aliens are among us!" But, you're right, Junior popping up to say hello would get a lot of attention.


And Jonas looked perfectly human, had no such considerations to worry about, and was still barred from leaving the base for several months after joining the SGC.

Good point

Skydiver
September 15th, 2006, 11:08 AM
very good point.

in fact, jonas was there a year, was he EVER allowed out unescorted? and he had tons more discretion than vala has

LaCroix
September 15th, 2006, 11:29 AM
Did we get character development? What did we learn about Vala, other than the fact that she pissed off another Gould when she was Q'tesh? That's not really a surprise is it? It seems that she pissed alot of people off when she was Q'tesh and even after she wasn't. Let's see, we found out that she can fight, but we knew that from Prometheus unbound. We found out she was curious and quick on her feet and likes to tease Daniel, but then we knew that too. So I don't really see any character development. Why not actually let us see Vala's memories, kind of like they did with Sam and Jack and Martouf in Jolinar's Memories/The Devil You Know. Show us what she was like as Q'tesh. Show us what she was like right after Q'tesh was removed. This could have been so much more. But it just wasn't. It was as someone said just surface stuff.

As for team bonding, where? I saw Cambo leave everyone behind and ride off to the rescue. I saw her bond with Daniel there at the end and I saw them give her the patch and say she earned it, but I have yet to see what in this episode made them take that step and make her a member of the team.

I do have to give CB credit though. She took a subpar script and acted her heart out, and did a great job with what she was given. She just wasn't given much, imo.


Kat you wrote what I was feeling when I watched this episode.

I wanted to see something other than the norm as of late. I wanted to see a
Kendra or Sarah Gardner type episode. I wanted to see thru Vala's eyes what
Q'tesh did and maybe a statement by Vala of the true horror of re-living it again. But there was none.

What I saw was stock footage being played out on a Dell laptop of past episodes. Maybe if TPTB took the money that they spent on the highway/freeway scenes, maybe my view wouldn't be skewed.

I also commend CB for giving her best. And I also commend AT, CJ, BB, and MS for giving their best.

Pitry
September 15th, 2006, 11:38 AM
I also commend CB for giving her best. And I also commend AT, CJ, BB, and MS for giving their best.

See, there's my problem, right there. I didn't feel CB gave her best in this episode. I felt we got quite a lot of much better performances from her in past episodes. It felt much more the "automatic pilot" kind of acting, falling back into old patterns and not looking for the new angle - much liek I feel about MS' performance in Icon, for example.

I agree, however, there wasn't character development for Vala in this episode. I didn't see a new - or extanded - angle of the character, either. If you're doing a character-centric episode, I'd expect some actual development... btu unfortunately, much lie Sateda, this was getting back to old, safe ground. As I said in my original thoughts about the episode, I felt Counterstrike, while having less screen time for CB, did more justice to both her in terms of acting and her character in terms of development.

LaCroix
September 15th, 2006, 11:50 AM
It's blame it on my mid-west up-bringing. ;)

DEM
September 15th, 2006, 12:03 PM
Kat you wrote what I was feeling when I watched this episode.

I wanted to see something other than the norm as of late. I wanted to see a Kendra or Sarah Gardner type episode.Ah! YES! Great analogy, LaCroix. Frankly, I think a major reason I liked both of those characters (even when I disliked them 'as people') was because their stories were so rich. They were real. Heck, Sarah-Osiris is the only redeeming aspect of Chimera for me; I have been known to fast-forward thru the Carter parts (:eek:) to get back to the Osiris story. Pity the writers lamed out on the Sarah-Osiris story after that. :( / :mad:

Now you've got me wanting to watch Thor's Hammer & The Curse. Say, perhaps that's what I'll do during that inevitable 'twilight time' before tonight's new ep. :)

DEM
September 15th, 2006, 12:13 PM
See, there's my problem, right there. I didn't feel CB gave her best in this episode. I felt we got quite a lot of much better performances from her in past episodes. It felt much more the "automatic pilot" kind of acting, falling back into old patterns and not looking for the new angle - much liek I feel about MS' performance in Icon, for example.I've held my tongue regarding CB's performance in this ep because, despite my seeming misanthropy, I do feel bad (sometimes) about critiquing actors' performances. Plus, it seemed like most people thought CB did great. :S Now that you've opened the gate, however... :p I would not say that CB was on automatic pilot. What it seemed more like to me, was that she was having trouble finding her character's centre (do actors still use that terminology)? I also thought that about another ep this season, too, but darn if I can remember which it was. I'd have to do a search. :S What I mean is: CB is having a hard time finding the core of Vala due to the writers' not very sophisticated attempts to "tone her down".

Kinda sucks, really. I'd like to see CB have better material.

Skydiver
September 15th, 2006, 02:11 PM
all that was new abut vala in this eps was her wardrobe

we learned nothing else

quick wit - knew that
slighty naughty - certainly knew that
fighter - knew that
survivor - knew that
ex-host - knew that

Racingtime
September 15th, 2006, 03:26 PM
I would just like to see the guy happy, and it certainly would not take away from all the other moments that the writers can dream up.

Well for me personally, I don't think that a romantic scene needs to be shown to have him be happy. I realize that other people disagree with that but I see him having just as many happy moments if he'd be given time to joke around and hang out with the others.


The writers waste plenty of time watching the team walking, and walking, and walking. THAT'S wasted time, imo.

I agree and I don't. On one hand, if it's just a long time walking scene with no purpose and no talking then I agree it's wasted time. But if they're talking about something important or the walking is being done in a way important to the plot, then I don't agree that it's wasted. Again it depends on how long it is too.


Also, just because YOU don't see a point to it doesn't mean other posters do see a point to it. (just saying)

Obviously I never assumed that everyone would agree with me but I can only state my opinion.


So, I guess you've gone for ten years without any interaction with the opposite sex and find that perfectly normal? I, personally, think it's a little nuts. Eh, it could just be me.

Since you're referring to a romantic/sexual interaction (I assume), I'd start by saying that as a gay man, the opposite sex part of the equation doesn't really count for me in that kind of situation. ;) That said, no I've had plenty of that kind of interaction within the last 10 years but at the same time, I'm not Daniel. I'm in my early 20s and don't have an important job that I am devoted to and while I have close friends, they aren't people that I have to rely on to have my back in life or death situations. Given how devoted Daniel is to his work and how close he is with his friends, I don't see him being lonely even without the "romantic" interaction. Plus you can't say that there hasn't been ANY interaction with the opposite sex because there has been some in that time. (I'm still assuming you only mean romantic/sexual here since he's also obviously interacted with Sam as a close friend.) But again, Daniel doesn't appear to me to be lacking just because he hasn't had much romance over the years.


Again, maybe it's me, but I find that a little isolating. Is it going to kill Daniel not to have these things? No. He adores Sam, Jack, and Teal'c, and I fully admit that they are all the family he needs. It still doesn't negate the fact that beyond them he has no one else. I don't know why this is such a problem to just admit.

I don't have a problem with admitting that he doesn't really have anyone else outside of Sam, Jack, and Teal'c (I'd also add Hammond and now Mitchell and Vala...though Vala I still count as only a friend). Though I would argue that we never did hear what happened to Sarah so you could always fanwank that they still keep in touch. The part I do have a "problem" with admitting is that this is isolating because, this is just my opinion, but I don't see it that way. There are a lot of people out there who don't even have close friends or family at their side so I'd say that Daniel's life is very rich given how much intimacy there is between him and his friends.


A person can be isolated by lack of family, lack of friends, lack of interaction on a platonic level.

But Daniel doesn't have a lack of those things so I'm still failing to see the isolation.


It doesn't matter that you didn't actually SEE a romantic moment between Jack and Sam. It's been implied ad nauseum. Please.

Yes, I realize it has been implied many times over the years, however, I still disagree with adding them separately as having a connection outside of SG-1 since nothing ever actually happened between them in that way. If you add them separately then you'd have to add something like Jack and Daniel separately as well since they experienced things together that the others didn't and so on.


Sam had a huge romance with Pete and almost got married. Jack and Teal'c also had their encounters, and Daniel's "moment" with Share lasted one episode in year one.

Well technically Daniel had little encounters as well even though they all turned out to be bad (though the other SG-1 members didn't exactly have their small ones turn out great either). Sam probably had the biggest romantic onscreen interaction but I'd still argue that Daniel's was more intimate with Sha're than Sam's was with Pete mainly because she was so undecided with Pete. Also Daniel's moment with Sha're wasn't just in 1 episode. Despite them being sad, he had some very nice moments with Sha're in the other two episodes she appeared in too.

Racingtime
September 15th, 2006, 03:52 PM
And if anyone did think to ask what it was about, any number of throwaway excuses would work and never be questioned too deeply

I personally liked the excuse they gave in Affinity where he said something about it being a tribal decoration from his homeland (which is technically true but would be easily accepted by humans).

Dani347
September 15th, 2006, 04:03 PM
This D/V discussion, especially the posts from me, Racingtime, and Maxum have brought up a question. It's more ship related in general, rather than the D/V thing or the episode, so I'm going to post it in the anti ship thread. Maxum, if you take a look and feel you want to respond and carry on a discussion from both sides, let me know, and I'll also post it in the ship discussion thread.

majorsal
September 15th, 2006, 04:04 PM
But then I've given up looking for the military accuracy and attention to realistic detail on this show anymore. So can't say that it really surprises me that Vala gets what everyone else didn't. Clearly, these days, the writers will write what suits them to get to their plot. Regardless of how much sense it makes or doesn't make.



*nods* yep. :S






sally :)

The Ori
September 15th, 2006, 05:13 PM
If they tried to make it a character development ep, it didn't work!!

Pitry
September 17th, 2006, 01:20 AM
I've held my tongue regarding CB's performance in this ep because, despite my seeming misanthropy, I do feel bad (sometimes) about critiquing actors' performances. Plus, it seemed like most people thought CB did great. :S Now that you've opened the gate, however... :p I would not say that CB was on automatic pilot. What it seemed more like to me, was that she was having trouble finding her character's centre (do actors still use that terminology)? I also thought that about another ep this season, too, but darn if I can remember which it was. I'd have to do a search. :S What I mean is: CB is having a hard time finding the core of Vala due to the writers' not very sophisticated attempts to "tone her down".

Kinda sucks, really. I'd like to see CB have better material.

Ah but I have to disagree (hey, I'm allowed to, I Have Opened The Gate! bwahahaha;))
I - usually - think CB is great on Stargate. I don't know about acting terminology or how they look for their character's core, but most of the time I feel she's giving a great performance. Specifically, in Memento Mori.... I both didn't feel the livelihood I'm usually getting from her, and - most important to me - I felt she's more falling to regular patterns. That's why I brought up MS in Icon - when I watch him in that episode, as much as I usually enjoy his performance as an actor, I just feel a "let's get it over with" feeling. Cliche Daniel more than... oh, I lack the terminology to put it into words. Hope I'm not confusing anyone.

As for critisising actors' performances.... well, I have to say that as long as it's done politely and not bashing a person, how is it differnet than critisisng a director or writer or producer?

Zoser
September 17th, 2006, 04:02 AM
This D/V discussion, especially the posts from me, Racingtime, and Maxum have brought up a question. It's more ship related in general, rather than the D/V thing or the episode, so I'm going to post it in the anti ship thread. Maxum, if you take a look and feel you want to respond and carry on a discussion from both sides, let me know, and I'll also post it in the ship discussion thread.
Those are both protected threads - Is there a 'ship or no ship thread' where we can have an adult discussion? (rather than one of those "OH I just love X and Y to snog eternally and make babies" vs "Gross waste of time")

Dani347
September 19th, 2006, 02:05 PM
Those are both protected threads - Is there a 'ship or no ship thread' where we can have an adult discussion? (rather than one of those "OH I just love X and Y to snog eternally and make babies" vs "Gross waste of time")


The ship discussion thread is for people on both sides of the issue. It's neither all anti or all pro.

esoap524
September 19th, 2006, 07:24 PM
Originally Posted by DEM
I've held my tongue regarding CB's performance in this ep because, despite my seeming misanthropy, I do feel bad (sometimes) about critiquing actors' performances. Plus, it seemed like most people thought CB did great. Now that you've opened the gate, however... I would not say that CB was on automatic pilot. What it seemed more like to me, was that she was having trouble finding her character's centre (do actors still use that terminology)? I also thought that about another ep this season, too, but darn if I can remember which it was. I'd have to do a search. What I mean is: CB is having a hard time finding the core of Vala due to the writers' not very sophisticated attempts to "tone her down".

Kinda sucks, really. I'd like to see CB have better material.

Maybe "Morpheus"?

First off--is "green" the right term, as far as giving you an amen for saying "I'd like to see CB have better material." That would be a resounding, king size AMEN from me.

I can't say that the performance itself is off kilter...I really can't tell about the performance itself. That being said...It seemed like "Memento Mori" was trying to be too many things. Was it suspense? Comedy? Drama? Some shows can balance all three successfully, or at least Drama/Comedy, but this episode didn't succeed on either level. Thus, it could/would feel like the actor who was taking point wasn't quite nailing the performance. I left the episode feeling very disappointed, and I was really looking forward to the ep, CB/Vala fan that I am.


CB is having a hard time finding the core of Vala due to the writers' not very sophisticated attempts to "tone her down".

Again, I can't comment on the performance because I can't tell one way or the other. But, to me, it seems that she's not written consistently. The whole little girl lost thing doesn't work for me that well--Vala was canny enough to steal the Prometheus, for god's sake, to work her way back into the SGC, to manipulate Daniel and everyone else, to close the Ori beachhead, to convince a devout Ori follower to marry her and to convince him that she was pregnant with his child AND to occupy Daniel's body to spread the bad news about the Ori. And she held her own against the spawn of fanaticism.

I'm all for the Vala snark and humor and even baiting Daniel and even showing vulnerability --I swear, I'm a sap because that last scene where she says "daniel" and lowered the gun was probably my favorite.

But...

I wish the writers would remember that smart character; in toning her down, they're actually just making her stupid. She's a lot of things, many of them not necessarily noble, but stupid isn't one of them.

Callista
October 12th, 2006, 01:38 PM
I apologize if this has been brought up before, but I was just watching the commentary for Ex Deus Machina and JM was saying that Ba'al's henchwoman, Charlotte, is going to turn out to be a goa'uld in season 10. She's Athena, right? If so, why couldn't Sam sense her being a goa'uld when she was talking with her in Ex Deus Machina? Can Sam not sense that anymore? (I'm assuming the answer is that TPTB are still downplaying the extra things Sam gained from Jolinar i.e.: they want us to forget about it, or that they forgot, or that they weren't intending Charlotte to be a goa'uld when they did Ex Deus Machina....But, if those aren't the reason/s, I was wondering if I missed something somewhere.)

DeeKayP
October 12th, 2006, 08:13 PM
I apologize if this has been brought up before, but I was just watching the commentary for Ex Deus Machina and JM was saying that Ba'al's henchwoman, Charlotte, is going to turn out to be a goa'uld in season 10. She's Athena, right? If so, why couldn't Sam sense her being a goa'uld when she was talking with her in Ex Deus Machina? Can Sam not sense that anymore? (I'm assuming the answer is that TPTB are still downplaying the extra things Sam gained from Jolinar i.e.: they want us to forget about it, or that they forgot, or that they weren't intending Charlotte to be a goa'uld when they did Ex Deus Machina....But, if those aren't the reason/s, I was wondering if I missed something somewhere.)

Kianna Cyr in "Fallout" (Jonas Quinn's Goa'ulded girlfriend) used a drug which masked the presence of the symbiote. She was in Ba'al's organization and you can probably make an assumption that Charlotte/Athena used the same drug before her interview with Carter. That's probably a big stretch, but it is "canon" that such a drug exists.

Debi

Callista
October 12th, 2006, 11:01 PM
Kianna Cyr in "Fallout" (Jonas Quinn's Goa'ulded girlfriend) used a drug which masked the presence of the symbiote. She was in Ba'al's organization and you can probably make an assumption that Charlotte/Athena used the same drug before her interview with Carter. That's probably a big stretch, but it is "canon" that such a drug exists.

Debi

Thanks! I've only watched "Fallout" twice. I guess I wasn't paying very close attention.

John's PuddleJumper
December 3rd, 2006, 11:36 AM
Loved the explosion out of the warehouse and Mitchell's shooting the metal shelf to get the guy.

The episode as a whole seemed a bit "surface". It seemed as if they would touch on something then move along to the next thing. I am glad they did spend some time Mitchell handcuffed to the bed, shirtless *sorry for the fangirlie moment*


Was that the first Stargate car crash ever?

As a fangirl I too love the idea of Cam handcuffed to a bed- the episode hasn;t aired in the UK yet. But will post my feelings after seeing it- which I'm looking forward too may I add

spaceangel
December 6th, 2006, 02:49 PM
I have just seen this episode in the UK and I thought it was rather slow but I did enjoy watching Daniel's emotional reaction to Vala's abduction even though I am one of those people who don't really see ship anywhere. For me this showed a turning point for Daniel ....he is denying anything romantic between them yet he obviously feels something deep. I don't think he is naive enough to think he can take a woman out to a restaurant without it being perceived as romantic by others. Maybe he is fooling himself.. who knows. I thought the scene in the motel with Mitchel was funny, but I have to admit that after about 2 seconds I stopped seeing him and saw Daniel. If you take it that way the lines are much funnier and (dare I say it) I think MS would have delivered them better...or at least more to my taste.

John's PuddleJumper
December 7th, 2006, 04:02 AM
Will have to watch the episode again incase I missed anything. I didn't exactly find it slow- with the jumping about all over the place got me a little confused but still.

Daniel taking Vala out def a date! There is no way round that. It was sweet of Daniel to do that.

I must say I like Cam handcuffed to the bed- that was so cool!:cool: :cool: A VVVVVV good scene for Cam fans and I think fangirls in general. ;)

I love the way he got dressed and helped his team carry on searching for Vala even though he was injured- that is just so Cam I think- always wanting to help. :p :cool:

I argee with what someone else said- Vala shouldn't have got into SG-1, I think Jack would be very upset and I think he would say this "Over my rotting corps!"

mancslad08
December 7th, 2006, 04:43 AM
Yet another example of why this show needs to end. 20 episodes for these writers is too much.

The episode is trash, the only part I liked was the Daniel / Vala ship. I'm not normally a shipper person and I thought Jack and Sam ship was sometime way to forceful. In this case however the Daniel / Vall ship was nicely done because they have a friendship, but more to a point.

Couldn't agree more. Perfect example of why this show needs to end.

Shocker of an episode, probably the worst this season. Scratch that, 200 was worse but still. Dull, pointless, stupid storyline and in the end didn't go anywhere. TPTB were clearly in love with their 'kewl' motorbike chase though.

Unsurprised PG15 gave it an 8/10 though ;)

full.infinity
December 7th, 2006, 03:59 PM
Couldn't agree more. Perfect example of why this show needs to end.
"Unnatural Selection" was worse. "Progeny" shows how the human-Replicators should have been introduced.
At least with "Memento Mori" I had a partial attraction to the storyline. "Unnatural Selection" bored me even more than MM.


Shocker of an episode, probably the worst this season. Scratch that, 200 was worse but still. Dull, pointless, stupid storyline and in the end didn't go anywhere. TPTB were clearly in love with their 'kewl' motorbike chase though.
I actually partially agree here--it feels like this episode was trying to be way too many things and ended up being a bit of a disappointment. Still better than "The Fifth Race", which holds the dubious honor of being the only episode that made me cringe.

PG15
December 7th, 2006, 08:44 PM
Unsurprised PG15 gave it an 8/10 though ;)

:p

mancslad08
December 7th, 2006, 09:06 PM
"Unnatural Selection" was worse. "Progeny" shows how the human-Replicators should have been introduced.
At least with "Memento Mori" I had a partial attraction to the storyline. "Unnatural Selection" bored me even more than MM.


I actually partially agree here--it feels like this episode was trying to be way too many things and ended up being a bit of a disappointment. Still better than "The Fifth Race", which holds the dubious honor of being the only episode that made me cringe.
How can you not like 'The Fifth Race'? One of SG-1's finest hours in my opinion.

full.infinity
December 8th, 2006, 02:45 PM
How can you not like 'The Fifth Race'? One of SG-1's finest hours in my opinion.
It didn't turn on my sense of danger at all like it tried to, the fake Latin was slightly grating(although less so in Lost City, probably because it actually sounded like Latin in Lost City), the scene with the Asgard was the most cringeworthy scene in SG-1 to date(I can deal with the budgetary anthrocentrism that SG-1 generally uses with the Goa'uld and such, but the anthrocentrism in this episode was maximally cringeworthy).
The episode would have been better with Carter just stating each plot point of that episode.

Pitry
December 8th, 2006, 03:34 PM
It didn't turn on my sense of danger at all like it tried to, the fake Latin was slightly grating(although less so in Lost City, probably because it actually sounded like Latin in Lost City), the scene with the Asgard was the most cringeworthy scene in SG-1 to date(I can deal with the budgetary anthrocentrism that SG-1 generally uses with the Goa'uld and such, but the anthrocentrism in this episode was maximally cringeworthy).
The episode would have been better with Carter just stating each plot point of that episode.

Didn't they drop all pretense starting WoO onwards adn just use real Latin?

~Benjamin~
December 9th, 2006, 03:07 PM
this one was alrite i liked the bike chace cam had .
laughed so much when vala had caught him and undressed him

Matt G
December 9th, 2006, 04:25 PM
Well, I got warned before watching this ep that it was 5/10. So...

1. Bottom line, if TPTB are going to rip The Bourne Identity then they should do it with a character I really give a frack about.

2. Yes Vala's on good terms with the team and of course they're going to rescue her. However, I can't believe that Daniel would have fallen for her as much as she appears to have.

3. Vala on SG1. Meh...she's seemingly been a hanger on for most of this season so she might as well I guess.

4. Wouldn't mind knowing what Teal'c told the Trust guy.

5. Would also not mind knowing why Goa'uld voices are suddenly at a premium!

Overall, never got into this ep, primarily due to point number 1. Deffo the worst S10 ep I've seen.

lissafoss
December 12th, 2006, 05:38 AM
this one was alrite i liked the bike chace cam had .
laughed so much when vala had caught him and undressed him

those were my fv bits. Nice episode, naked cam is always a good thing:D

angelfire east
December 23rd, 2006, 10:14 PM
I liked this episode, didn't love it but I really didn't have the problems many people did. But I really don't want to get into that.

I was rather shocked at Vala having romactic feelings for Daniel and wanted to have a relationship. I mean I'm not shocked that they did the vala/daniel romance but more the way they did it. They just came out with it, well Vala did with her feelings, that sursprised me.

I'm undecided on Daniel's feelings towards her. Part of me think he got feelings for her in that way but not to th epoint that she does for him. I don't think he's ready to date her yet. At least he didn't think in terms of dating when he asked her out. I think this episode might have opened up the door to Daniel thinking about dating her. I don't think it really entered his mind.

I'm happy Vala has those kinds of feelings for Daniel and explains a lot (why he's the only one she half way listens too lol). ANd I'm happy she came out and told him she wanted to date him, even if she thought he wanted to date her int he first place. She didn't get her feeling hurt nor him over it so that always makes me happy. I love Sam/Jack but I h ated that when ever they speak of their feelings they where hurt.


Anyway on to the superficial stuff:p Daniel looked really hot all dressed up for dinner. His hair was cool, his clothes where gorgeous. He really made the effact IMO. He really looked great. The boy has style:D So many he didn't think it as a date but subconsciously he made the effact for romantic reasons;):D btw I've been meaning to say this for a while I hate Daniel's new glasses. I loved his rounder ones, they made him look cute and no glass where sexy. I don't like these new ones:(

Vala looked lovely as ususal; loved the deep blue shirt and the flower in her hair. Thought I didn't like when Dnaiel picked it up off the ground after she was taken, that was a little fouced. I'd rather him see the car drive away with Vala in the back but not able to stop it or crase after them.

Sam and Cameron looked gorgeous as well. Actully Sam, Teal'c and Cam all really looked Cool. Teal'c was dressed a little more casule(sp) then the others. Cameron with no shirt and pants was brilliant:D A compete fangirl momnet for me:D btw Cam got his hair cut which looks good. (he had the sides cut shorter)


Now onto the plot lol:

At times a few thigns bugged me like Daniel finding the flower, Camreon flashing his "badge" and gettign the bike:rolleyes: and Vala's moves when she took downt he bad guy (felt a little fouced) and everythign the stupid cop did and said. BUt on a whole I liked everything else well enough.

Loved the dinner owner. I didn't get that it was the guy from the 70's show without the fro:lol: He did a great job and I liked his character, he was great guy:D When Vala was taking down the bad guys I loved him trying to find the right weapon to take them downa nd came running out to find he has nothing to do.

Cameron was great in the epiosde (I'm trying to blank the corny flashing of the "badge" to get the bike). I loved his "take action" thing when he went after Vala; it's in true form for his character. I also loved that after he got shot he got dressed and went back with the term to look for Vala. And that was a good move when he zatted(sp) the bad guy:D I think it was one of the funniest momnets for Cameron when the term walked to see him eatting junkfood, watching t.v in his underwear. Plus I loved Sam bugging him about the pants issuse. I hope we see that joke again maybe in the movies.

Sam and Teal'c were good in the small roles they had. I wish I knew what Teal'c said (anyone lip read?)

Loved the ending, though I think they should have had a line like that said they where going to make Vala a member of the term before the events of this episode. Becuase the events of the episode didn't make Vala "worthy" of being a member of the term (it did show that they see her as a member of the term). I thinkt he events before this episode made her "worthy" of being a member of the term. (events from Counterstrike, Uninvited etc).

Loved everyone bugging Daneil about the Date, Vala included. lol

Margaret
December 26th, 2006, 07:26 PM
This is the episode that made me like Vala. (Up until now, the only good thing about her that I could find was that she made Daniel do funny things! :D)

In this episode, I came to admire Vala's survival skills. It gave me a sense of what life has been like for her up to now -- always on the run, danger everywhere, don't know who to trust, so better not trust anyone . . .

I can see why she practically wept when she recognized Daniel. I can see why she would want to be part of the team. In space, there's no one to watch your back.

Ravenessa
December 26th, 2006, 10:39 PM
I like this epsiode because we got to see another side of Vala. But, she wasn't really herself, but at the end when she hugs Daniel, I saw her in a different light.

Also, the last scene in the breifing room when she makes her statement, it's also like a different side. I'd like to see more, because sometimes the peppy, free-spirited Vala gets annoying, and I liked the change.

meredithchandler73
December 27th, 2006, 09:34 AM
I had posted about this in the Season Ten forum, but I thought I'd put my specific thoughts about this episode in this thread.

I liked this episode a lot. Yes, I'm a Vala/CB fan. This was a chance to see a different side of Vala, a very vulnerable side. As someone else mentioned (probably several someones) you see her Vala's survival instinct.

As for the "romance" aspect of the episode. It's funny, I didn't really see it as Vala having feelings for Daniel or vice versa. I am not opposed to Vala/Daniel ship but I'm not necessarily rooting for it either. I am sure there is some attraction there, but whether they really *belong* together, I just can't say. I took it at face value that Daniel wanted to treat Vala to something nice as a thank you. I think Vala was just looking forward to going out on a date. She is pretty easy going and I didn't see this date as the beginnings of a long-term relationship. I keep remembering Ties That Bind where she just shows up in Daniel's room for a romp. And she does seem to take it in stride when he turned her down in TTB.

As for Vala joining SG-1, yeah, it may have seemed kind of soon, but I can forgive it. How long was Jonas around before he became an official member of the team?

So, I thought it was wonderful performance by Claudia Black. Now, I'll be a broken record and say, WHY CAN'T WE HAVE MORE VALA AND SAM INTERACTION!?!?!?!

Oh yeah, and Ben Browder handcuffed to the bed shirtless was a nice treat.

angelfire east
December 28th, 2006, 09:08 PM
As for Vala joining SG-1, yeah, it may have seemed kind of soon, but I can forgive it. How long was Jonas around before he became an official member of the team?

Agreed it is forgivable. I'm happy she part of the term.

To be fair with Jonas he was around for months plus he had speacil skills. Not to mention Jack choice *had* to make a choice right away or have a Russian on the term. IMO it's two different things with Jonas joing the term and Vala.


Now, I'll be a broken record and say, WHY CAN'T WE HAVE MORE VALA AND SAM INTERACTION!?!?!?!

Agree, their just pushing it to the side and it's high time we go to see some more one on one Sam/Vala interaction that has some meaning. I want to know see what these women really think of each other. I wan to see their firendship is there is friendship. What kind of friendship it is. INstead we get nothing. there just there around each other and I guess we supose to think whatever we want?!?:(

meredithchandler73
December 29th, 2006, 08:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by meredithchandler73
Now, I'll be a broken record and say, WHY CAN'T WE HAVE MORE VALA AND SAM INTERACTION!?!?!?!


Agree, their just pushing it to the side and it's high time we go to see some more one on one Sam/Vala interaction that has some meaning. I want to know see what these women really think of each other. I wan to see their firendship is there is friendship. What kind of friendship it is. INstead we get nothing. there just there around each other and I guess we supose to think whatever we want?!?:(

Hey - I'm the one that wished we could have a Sam/Vala body-switching episode. It would be so much fun to see what Amanda and Claudia could do with each other's characters. Alas, I know it's just a pipe dream. :)

SGFerrit
January 4th, 2007, 10:04 AM
How can you not like 'The Fifth Race'? One of SG-1's finest hours in my opinion.

You don't seem to like most of the current episodes, but people don't say "How could you not like ....." to you, even though alot of people like the new episodes. They can ike what they want, you can't tell people what to like.

You give Brits a bad name arount here, nothing but negative and insulting the new seasons.

angelfire east
January 4th, 2007, 04:46 PM
Hey - I'm the one that wished we could have a Sam/Vala body-switching episode. It would be so much fun to see what Amanda and Claudia could do with each other's characters. Alas, I know it's just a pipe dream. :)

That would be so cool:D That a great idea:D

placid
July 15th, 2007, 04:05 AM
Boring storyline, although told about as interestingly as possible. Bike chase sequence was nice, though he seemed to be struggling with the gearbox. Ending was a bit... blah.

Krisz
July 29th, 2007, 12:48 PM
I didn't see this episode when it first aired. Now I have the season box set I saw it for the first time the other day. I've never been able to decide whether I like Vala in the SG setup or not. This episode confirmed for me that I like her more as an outsider who decides to help SG1 for altruistic reasons on occasion.

This episode showed that she's much better when portrayed as being on her own and us seeing her survival instincts in action. Vala's nature in itself does not lend itself easily to the constraints of what being part of the SGC involves.

When she was confirmed as a member of SG1, I was sitting there wondering where that came from suddenly! Was it because she seemed to show genuine joy in remembering who she was and what her life was at the moment to Daniel when he rescued her? Daniel then told everyone how genuine she was and she was now part of the team, goodness knows!

The car chase was the worst car chase I think I've ever seen! To me it had the feel of a load of amateurs getting a car and a motor bike, getting on the highway and trying to recreate their favourite movie car chase!!

When they turned up on that turn off for Surrey/Langley stretch of highway I've been on once or twice, that made it even worse!!! That certainly was not Colorado!! Now that just ruins the whole idea of the setting for the episode! I know they like to thrown in references to Vancouver on occasion but this didn't work at all!

Beckmen
July 29th, 2007, 07:08 PM
Wow. I thought the car chase was the best TV show car chase I had seen. Not that I have seen many, but stuff like 24 and stuff...

Two_L's
August 31st, 2007, 06:33 AM
This was a great episode!!!!!!!!

Claudia Black made this episode. :vala:

But, I must say, The only parts that I really remember, is the part were Vala orders each kind of martinie;
where she says that she's so happy that Daniel finally takes her out on a date and Daniel tries to explains that its not a date;
where Vala shoved a twinkie in Cam's mouth; where the rest of SG-1 finds Cam on the bed, hand-cuffed, no shirt, and surrounded by sweets; and Sam says that that's the second time that Cam's had his pants down. My whole family found that hilarious!!;
and the part at the end where Vala becomes a permenant member of SG-1, and Daniel again tries to explain to everyone that he wasn't taking Vala out on a date, and even Gen.Landry didn't believe him. Poor Daniel :danielanime08:

All-in-all, GREAT EP!!!!

You pointed out nearly every part that I loved. ;) Just one is missing; when Vala gives the policeman her last name as 'todad' and he turns around and there is a drawing by one of his kids that says 'To Dad' on it. That was hilarious! Loved the Cam/pants joke too. ;)


I liked it. Hey, it's SG1 for crying out loud. Like marriage, there are good times and bad times, but when you step back and look at the big picture, it's all about the love affair. I'm in love with SG1. I'll happily take whatever they give me and be grateful. I'm not going to tear apart every episode and examine each thread for a yea or nay, and I'm certainly not gonna use one episode to decide if I'm gonna bother watching the next. Gimme more SG1, that's all I ask. Keep it coming. Earthbound, in space, this ship, that ship, heroics, jokes, aliens, too much Cam, not enough Jack- just gimme gimme gimme. I'm in this for the long haul...

That's exactly how I feel about SG1! I've been watching it since the start and no matter what, I'm going to stick with it till the end. Sure, not all episodes are as awesome as they can be, but I usually enjoy them anyway.

Overall, I thought this was a really good episode with some very good humour in it too. Claudia Black also did a great job. :)



btw I've been meaning to say this for a while I hate Daniel's new glasses. I loved his rounder ones, they made him look cute and no glass where sexy. I don't like these new ones:(


It took me a couple of episodes to figure out why Daniel looked so different, hehehe, but I agree. I also liked the rounder ones because I think these new ones change his face a bit. :(

MechaThor
September 15th, 2007, 11:46 AM
At 1rst I did not like this episode but after the 2nd then 3rd (with Audio Commentary) I started to really like it!
Its great to see alot of new elements like car crashes, Bike chases and yet another warehouse fight and break in! Theres alot of abondoned warehouses used by bad guys in the Stargate area! Its nice se also see some of the old and classic Goa'uld mythology again with Athena!

One bad thing is that although he directed the episode Peter Deluise did not do the Audio commentary! As his my fav person doing them! But oh well. Maybe he will do an Atalantis one?
However his "Behind the scenes" feature of this episode was intresting. Especailly when exsplaining about the wide angel lens! and when the biker guy was telling Peter stuff he could do on this bike and Peters reply was
"I have no Idea what you just said... But do what ever looks cooler!" lol that made me laugh!

gatechick
January 26th, 2008, 11:33 AM
I got to say the Mallozzi/Mullie writing team has been writing bad episodes lately, I think they're in a slump.

Oh but according to Joe Mallozzi in the special features of season 10 dvd in the deleted scenes, everything he writes is gold. (Cringes) I am sure he meant that sarcastically (hopes) and the only reason I quoted this was to be sarcastic but not to you, to Mallozzi. :cool: I didn't enjoy this ep, but one thing I am unclear of and perhaps it was mentioned, but why are the goa'uld no longer talking funny. Now they are talking human. I see that when they are talking to others, because they want to hide on earth, but when Athena was talking to Vala why wouldn't she talk in her true nature?

stargatefan999
February 19th, 2008, 12:35 AM
I thought this episode was a really good one. Claudia Black's performance was really great. Bits and pieces were really funny and some were really emotional. The chemistry she has with Ben Browder is definately still there :)

Orici.
February 20th, 2008, 09:55 AM
I really liked this episdode. I thought it was a really good Vala episode and it showed how much the team all missed her even though they found her annoying at times.

xXValaXx
May 27th, 2008, 08:37 AM
One of my fave S10 eppys Vala is legend in this :D

Jack_O'Neill_fan
September 9th, 2008, 12:31 PM
I really enjoyed this episode. I especially love the Cam/Vala scenes in the motel room. Priceless.

I liked that scene too. I thought it was funny when SG-1 burst into the room and Cam looks at them, then pulls the covers higher.

suse
September 10th, 2008, 07:28 AM
this one was alrite i liked the bike chace cam had .
laughed so much when vala had caught him and undressed him

I found the bike chase (complete with the wheelie pop <gag>)to be one of the worst sequences of production values on the entire SG-1 run. Bad sound, bad editing, bad decisions, just BAD.

The naked Cam was just dumb. Very Vala, but... :(

The other really badly vut sequence this ep was Vala taking the guys apart in the diner. Obviously cut in, and those veryveryvery slender arms and legs taking out more than a 5 pound dog? I don;t think so. I laughed the whole sequence.

Claudia did a great job making Vala more vulnerable and I actually liked Vala more by the end of the ep.

But making her a full member of the team? No way Insulting and unbelievable, even if they use her, that amount of trust isn't realistic.

suse

Jeff O'Connor
September 12th, 2008, 07:44 PM
I thought this episode was fairly glorious. There was some silliness involved that seemed quite farfetched, but I wouldn't say it was completely unfounded. Vala may be tiny by relative terms, but after so much time out there, often on her own, I think she might have picked up some pretty stylish moves.

That said, I'd like to point out that using a person's strength against them is a perfect example of why it was plausible. I've been off and on into martial arts for almost a decade, and have enough under my belt to state that even if I weren't as big as I am (5'11", 180) I could still do everything I can do in regard to that field. Claudia's (and by extent, Vala's) around 5'6", 130, I believe, and I have no doubt in my mind she couldn't learn what I've learned.

There were several laugh-out-loud moments, and Claudia really had an opportunity to shine and show off how well-versed as an actress she really is. She hadn't had so many moments to pull such prowess off in the past; the intensity of everything was something I hadn't seen but a couple of times prior in SG-1, and otherwise, I hadn't seen since fairly regularly on Farscape.

Stef
September 12th, 2008, 09:45 PM
I found the bike chase (complete with the wheelie pop <gag>)to be one of the worst sequences of production values on the entire SG-1 run. Bad sound, bad editing, bad decisions, just BAD.
Really? I didn't have a problem with it. I think it was just a little different than the usual kind of filming/shots they do on this show.


But making her a full member of the team? No way Insulting and unbelievable, even if they use her, that amount of trust isn't realistic.
I completely disagree with that. I mean, sure, things are sped up because this is a television series - but I think Vala had proven herself to be a valuable and trusted member of the team by that point, all you had to do was see the rest of the teams' reaction to her at the end of the episode for that (and then how she saved their butts in CoT after this).

But now I'm curious, how long would you have wanted it to take? What would have been enough for her to have earned her badges for you?

-Stef

Sp!der
October 21st, 2008, 11:19 AM
I just re-re-re-re-re-re watched it.... :vala:
...after u know all episodes, its not that bad.

CaramelMonkey
February 28th, 2009, 06:34 PM
I found the bike chase (complete with the wheelie pop <gag>)to be one of the worst sequences of production values on the entire SG-1 run. Bad sound, bad editing, bad decisions, just BAD.

The naked Cam was just dumb. Very Vala, but... :(

The other really badly vut sequence this ep was Vala taking the guys apart in the diner. Obviously cut in, and those veryveryvery slender arms and legs taking out more than a 5 pound dog? I don;t think so. I laughed the whole sequence.

Claudia did a great job making Vala more vulnerable and I actually liked Vala more by the end of the ep.

But making her a full member of the team? No way Insulting and unbelievable, even if they use her, that amount of trust isn't realistic.

suse

The bike chase. It wasn't great, but it wasn't THAT bad.

Naked Cam? But that was part of the long running joke about him losing his pants! Well, not long running, but...y'know.

The fight? Well they were obviously caught off-guard, so that's a factor.

Yes, Claudia did an awesome job. I love Claudia! :D

Making her a full member of the team? That wasn't that bad at all! I mean, she would've been on Earth for a couple of months... and she helped them out a LOT in season 9, so it wasn't that unrealistic. Just a bit unexpected. Big deal. :P

I loved the ep. I think it's really sweet how Daniel's really into finding Vala. :D

Tachyon
April 5th, 2010, 05:00 AM
I am not a huge fan of Vala's, but this episode, though Vala-centric, kind of works for me.

mrscopterdoc
April 20th, 2010, 05:17 PM
I am not a huge fan of Vala's, but this episode, though Vala-centric, kind of works for me.

I agree. I guess she grows on you after awhile...

Elorendil
June 9th, 2010, 04:42 PM
I thought this was a pretty decent episode. I thought that Claudia did a good job of portraying Vala's fear and uncertainty about not remembering her past and only having little flashes of things that definitely weren't good. Cam taking off on the bike was amusing to me, even if it wasn't a terrific chase.

I was a little surprised that they made Vala a member of SG-1 at the end, but I thought it worked. I mean, she did do a lot to help the team in season 9 and in earlier episodes of season 10, and she has been around Earth for a few months at this point, working hard to adjust and fit in. :)

Martina Magnus
July 8th, 2010, 05:12 AM
Totally love scene with Vala and Cam ... that one with Cam on bike ... awwwwwh xD

10polarbear1
January 10th, 2011, 03:37 PM
Vala is my favourite character and I love every moment she has in the show. I think it was my favourite!

maneth
February 2nd, 2011, 09:21 AM
Certainly the best Vala ep I've seen so far, but by no means a favorite overall. I hope we'll see more Athena.

mathpiglet
June 3rd, 2011, 03:53 PM
I am a fan of Vala! Her character is wonderful with its complexities and often maddening inconsistencies. I love the way she plays Daniel!

10polarbear1
July 28th, 2011, 02:34 PM
I think this episode gets a lot of bad rep, but to be honest, it works. It gets you more in Vala's character. And please. Whoever thinks Vala shouldnt be part of the team...shes a valuable addition.

Girlbot
July 28th, 2011, 05:45 PM
I am not a huge fan of Vala's, but this episode, though Vala-centric, kind of works for me.


I agree. I guess she grows on you after awhile...
My sentiments exactly

SamanthaJenniferChloe
April 26th, 2012, 04:14 AM
Hello! :cool:

I really liked this episode. I liked how Vala was shown throughout it.

It was neat to see her take down the robbers at the diner. Vala was at first really kick butt and then confused.

I hope that Vala and Daniel get to have a proper date later on. It was not fair that she was taken from it.

I thought that it was perfect that Vala was watching The X-Files.

I was glad that when the bad guys came to get Vala that Cameron gave chase on the motorcycle. I have to say as a Farscape fan I could not help but think it was neat that it was Cameron that set out to get Vala first.

I know that it may seem to be rather like having a dose of fan service with Cameron being undressed but it makes sense. If he got away he would have to put something on to take Vala with him. Vala did not know if he was really her friend. It would give Vala an opening if she had to get away from Cameron which of course she did not have to.

I really liked the two warmhearted scenes at the end. I was glad that Daniel was able to get Vala to remember him and then gave her the hug. I also liked when Landry gave Vala her SG1 patches.

Jae'a
May 10th, 2012, 01:14 PM
My LiveJournal post (http://jo-r-lee.livejournal.com/53495.html)

Loved Cam on the motorbike. :cool:

NowIWillDestroyAbydos
May 10th, 2012, 01:52 PM
I just want to say one thing about the episode, most of it sucked, the only good parts were Cam in the Hotel Room and the and finale scene in Daniel's Office. Worst episode this season.

I got to say the Mallozzi/Mullie writing team has been writing bad episodes lately, I think they're in a slump.
It's because they don't write together as a team anymore ((still) kind of annoys me)

Agreed,
Cam looked badass on that bike.

Tomorrow, the record breaker (which since has been broken by Smallville).

Krisz
May 10th, 2012, 05:29 PM
I didn't see this episode when it first aired. Now I have the season box set I saw it for the first time the other day. I've never been able to decide whether I like Vala in the SG setup or not. This episode confirmed for me that I like her more as an outsider who decides to help SG1 for altruistic reasons on occasion.

This episode showed that she's much better when portrayed as being on her own and us seeing her survival instincts in action. Vala's nature in itself does not lend itself easily to the constraints of what being part of the SGC involves.

When she was confirmed as a member of SG1, I was sitting there wondering where that came from suddenly! Was it because she seemed to show genuine joy in remembering who she was and what her life was at the moment to Daniel when he rescued her? Daniel then told everyone how genuine she was and she was now part of the team, goodness knows!

The car chase was the worst car chase I think I've ever seen! To me it had the feel of a load of amateurs getting a car and a motor bike, getting on the highway and trying to recreate their favourite movie car chase!!

When they turned up on that turn off for Surrey/Langley stretch of highway I've been on once or twice, that made it even worse!!! That certainly was not Colorado!! Now that just ruins the whole idea of the setting for the episode! I know they like to thrown in references to Vancouver on occasion but this didn't work at all!

I vaguely remembered that I didn't think much of this episode when I first saw it. Hmmm.

Time and the re-watch has softened my view a little, as this time round I'm enjoying season 10 more than when I first saw it.

This time round I saw Vala with a little more sympathy especially after Daniel seemed to welcome her and has clearly become quite fond of her despite the ups and downs of getting to know her. I am a bit surprised at how much I've come to tolerate Vala with rewatching this season in its entirety for the re-watch.

My views on the car chase haven't changed. In fact it still looked just like my daily commute on the roads of Vancouver, I even had a motor bike swerve in front of me as it weaved in and out of the traffic this morning, so nothing different or exciting about it! :P