SG-1 cancellation stinks for smart female characters

[takinspace]

I'm pretty tweaked about SG-1's cancellation specifically because I'm going to lose Sam Carter. Yeah the writers technobabble her to death sometimes, but I'm a physics nut and hearing somewhat coherent science come flying out of the mouth of a woman on TV (who happens to be, um, hot, and yes I'm a guy) is pretty danged cool. Her being a character who can stand on her own two feet in many other ways only makes it better.

My favorite ep of SG-1 to this day is "A Matter of Time." The character and the situation shine.

I got to thinking about it, and I just realized I can't think of a comparable character on the air, at least not one with science smarts. Is there?

[Gate gal]

Sam is a great character, and I hope that she is in the third Stargate series. Not many people can handle the technobabble like Amanda, and a Stargate series without technobabble is like a Stargate without, well, a stargate.

In the mean time, we are going to miss that smart female character that is Sam Carter.

www.savestargatesg1.com/

[NightGloom]

Sam is an awesome character, even with what they put her through in season 7, but I think she's regaining some of her original tough, but smart girl qualities. Hopefully they'll have a Sam-esque character in the next series. At least a girl that's smart, can stand on her own 2 feet, and still kick some a**

[takinspace]

tough, but smart girl qualities

One of the best things about Sam-- and what makes her real-- is that she's not tough *but* smart. She's tough AND smart. And pretty and tough and smart. And funny and pretty and tough and smart. No conflict between any of the attributes and no choosing 1 out of 4 or 2 out of 4 or... you know what I mean. The writers and Amanda Tapping have made Sam seamless.

TV rarely gets that right. That's the biggest reason I'm going to miss her character being part of my weekly viewing.

Dang, I think I may have to start buying the DVDs. And if I have a daughter one day, I can show her Stargate so she can see all that a brilliant girl can be. But I'll have to edit out Pete until she's old enough.

[NightGloom]

She'll never be old enough for Pete... that was a horrible storyline and I'm not even a S/J shippper... in fact, I'm kinda anti-ship all together.

[JessM]

I'm pretty much the same way. I do ship but I do it in fanfiction only. I'm basically anti-ship onscreen. I just like seeing friendships.

I will really miss Sam, too. I started getting worried last year when it seemed like she might not have been part of S10 (with tptb telling her they didn't know what to do with her character and all that). I definitely wouldn't have watched S10 if she wasn't there. I just hope that whatever's next on the horizon for the show, be it a miniseries or movie, Sam will be a part of it.

I think buying the DVDs is a darn good idea. I've been watching them a lot lately to reminisce about the old days (yeah I've been less than enthusiastic about this season so far, I admit it).

[rebelwriter03]

Sam has been a wonderful talking point in our house too. When I lived at home Dad and my brother and I would sit around and talk about the science - ok mainly my dad and me. He's a Trekkie, got me into Trek when I was little, and now I got him into SG-1.

I think what AT has done with Sam is make it cool for a girl to like science. And not just the fluffy kind of science (umm like the flowers and stuff - sorry not a green thumb here) but the really hard, gotta think about it for more then a moment science. Physics was an interesting class in HS, but if I had had Sam as a teacher or even watched the show during that year, I would have learned a lot. I learn a lot when I watch SG, and there are not many shows that you can say that about them. Unless they are documenteries...

I may not be a scientist myself, but I love using the stuff Sam spouts out to go looking for science related stuff on the internet. Of course the way astrophysics is explained on the internet is not as exciting.

I would not be surprised if more young ladies watch the show and become scientists like Sam.

[Rosehawk]

One of the things that I first like about Sam - B4 I really got to know the character better - was here was a beautiful blonde, with a nice figure who was smarter than all the men around her. She wasn't dumbed down. Having her blonde was an added bonus - I admit I use to be sensitive to the dumb blonde image that I had to grow up with so for me to see an intelligent blonde woman on TV was a rare and wonderful sight.

And the fact that she could be as tough as the men without losing her feminine qualities is just wonderful. Kind of reminded me of having to grow up with brothers and no sisters. In real life women can be tough without losing what makes them soft and alluring and to have a character on TV portray that is really wonderful and helps set an excellent role model for girls and women alike.

Amanda and the writers did a fanastic job with her character.

[JessM]

I think what AT has done with Sam is make it cool for a girl to like science. And not just the fluffy kind of science (umm like the flowers and stuff - sorry not a green thumb here) but the really hard, gotta think about it for more then a moment science. Physics was an interesting class in HS, but if I had had Sam as a teacher or even watched the show during that year, I would have learned a lot. I learn a lot when I watch SG, and there are not many shows that you can say that about them. Unless they are documenteries...

I may not be a scientist myself, but I love using the stuff Sam spouts out to go looking for science related stuff on the internet. Of course the way astrophysics is explained on the internet is not as exciting.

I would not be surprised if more young ladies watch the show and become scientists like Sam.

Totally agree. I took some physics classes in college, and some of it leaked over into my core classes (geology major here) so a lot of what Sam spouted off on the show was very familiar to me. Still she made it sound more interesting and I agree that if I'd had her as a teacher/professor, I would have learned a lot. Not that I didn't learn a lot in the classes already, but I guess she makes it sound more interesting...

...I hope that's not starting to sound slashy or anything, LOL Just expressing appreciation for the character.

[silverdamascus]

I gotta disagree.

I like Sam but her loss is hardly going to make a gaping hole. Looking at her from a modern point of view, I am not that impressed with how they've done her. Smart, intelligent, yes - but she's only maintained those feats by essentially loosing a lot of her more feminine characteristics. Her inability to hold down a relationship is a running gag.

The only female character in Stargate, in a place of prominence that has shown strength and intelligence without loosing her essential feminine traits and that is Dr. Elizabeth Weir.

Recently we've been given some even stronger female characters that have done this. Zoe and Inara on Firefly, even Kaylee had a strength of her own. Rose Tyler on Doctor Who. These are characters who are what strong female characters today should be, strong characters that no one gives a damn that they're female.

When Sam arrived it really was "Shock look, she's intelligent and strong and a woman!". We're passed that. Sam was an important step for female characters at the time she was created and maybe even helped the evolution of females in scifi but her loss today will not hurt them. We've come too far for that.

[takinspace]

I gotta disagree.

None of the characters you mentioned are presented as strongly science-versed. There is a lack of these in both genders on TV, but for female characters in particular science is still in "that's not feminine" space. That and the lack of a similar on-air character was what resonated the most with me when I started the thread.

Of course, in the US, where we push the idea that nobody has to actually learn anything and math/science is useless and a "pain", some would decide that doesn't matter. We don't think *school* matters, much less math and science.

As long as we have women in leadership positions, and/or with toughness and situational survival skills, the idea is that we're all good. But that kind of thinking doesn't really serve anyone well regardless. It takes more than the raw ability to drive forward to succeed, whether you're the leader (Weir) or the companion (Rose Tyler).

Inara and Kaylee (Firefly) had potential as rounded characters. Inara had the most development, and Kaylee was technically saavy (using science that was completely fictionalized). But in any case, they're not on the air anymore.

As far as Sam losing her "more feminine" characteristics, I think that's only true if your view of "feminine" is in a traditional-minded lockbox. Yes, the lack of a relationship was a running joke for a good long time. But nobody else on the show had a working relationship either. And from a "modern" point of view-- i.e., one that doesn't need to see traditional displays of femininity to know it's there-- I never once saw Sam as lacking feminine characteristics. I didn't need to see them played out soap-opera style (date with Pete) to perceive them in the character.

Sam as a strong woman grounded in today's real-world science is unique in terms of on-air characers, and she provides unique inspiration to learn in the academic sense. From reading this thread it seems pretty clear that she is inspiring some young women interested in the field. This guy appreciates the science as well. I've fleshed out some of my own reading on physics (and astrophysics) as a result of Sam's yapping away. I'll miss the inspiration myself.

[silverdamascus]

None of the characters you mentioned are presented as strongly science-versed. There is a lack of these in both genders on TV...Sam as a strong woman interested in science is unique in terms of on-air characers, and she provides unique inspiration to learn in the academic sense.

Ah, okay, so it's lack of a female science icon you're bothered about the loss of. I can understand that but the phrasing of the topic made it seem more like her loss was a jolt from a feminist point.

I think you're wrong on that last part, for one there's a lot of prominent scientists equally well qualified about Stargate Command and Atlantis. Also science is also not the only Academia, personally I was overjoyed to see someone with what's very likely a humanities qualification in charge of Atlantis, this could provide inspiration to people too.

If you mean she provides a strong inspiration as a female scientist then fine but that has to be qualified. Sam is certainly not the only character that could capable of "inspiration to learn in the academic sense".

If Sam can inspire people, brilliant though I would argue that perhaps it is more identification.

I'm upset about the loss of SG:1 and don't intend to give up on it yet but in terms of creating a female science-based icon I think her work is done. Cancellation won't affect what's already happened it will be syndicated for years to come, Sam's not about to disappear and if she is capable of the inspiration you say she is then she'll continue to do that too.

[takinspace]

Ah, okay, so it's lack of a female science icon you're bothered about the loss of. I can understand that but the phrasing of the topic made it seem more like her loss was a jolt from a feminist point.

The inability to edit thread topics sometimes stinks.

But I honestly think it's both. In terms of smart female characters the two that matter the most in the Stargate universe are Sam and Weir. Everyone else is comparatively on sidebar, if only due to lack of screen time. Sam is on the science and leadership side (mostly hands-on, as a tactician), and Weir is on the diplomacy and leadership side (mostly hands-off, like a manager).

On the feminist angle, the issue is obviously that the pervasiveness of the idea that smart-- is not womanly. Sam is not just smart, but "geek-level" smart (this is the math/science angle), smacking traditional ideas dead in the nose without even needing to try. And her intelligence is obviously, in that wonderful "did you notice that Sam is wicked smart" way, both up in the stratosphere *and* critical to getting things done, with the criticality providing the inspirational component.

Sam's other attractive qualities are critical to the equation as well; that's what provides the final jolt to the idea that smart = unwomanly or unattractive. We know Sam can play bombshell, but she's not presented that way. It parallels the real world where smart, strong, physically attractive women aren't running around in spaghetti straps all the time but the attractiveness is still very much there. She flips multiple traditional ideas about femininity, attractiveness, and intelligence over all at the same time by being several "conflicting" things that successfully coexist.

Also science is also not the only Academia, personally I was overjoyed to see someone with what's very likely a humanities qualification in charge of Atlantis, this could provide inspiration to people too.

Point taken. But it's that "very likely" that actually makes my point about Sam providing a unique kind of inspiration in terms of on-air characters. It actually does have a lot do do with identification; it's the ease of identifying with her that makes her effective as a model.

Sam's uniqueness in providing academic inspiration is largely about the viewer's ability to grab something she's talking about and run back to the real world to research it on the spot. Any one of us can take something flying out of Sam, Google it, and burn a couple of hours reading. 2-3 eps later something new comes up and you've got something new to Google. It's tangible, it's real, and anyone can pick it up and run straight to study with it (whether they intended to or not). We also get to see Sam's troubleshooting and analysis process in fine detail, which is killer.

We all know that Weir's character is the result of successful education. But we don't have the "grabbables" (please shoot me for making that word up) on the humanities angle. Her academic components are less obvious and provide fewer obvious topics to study (with Sam, I don't Google "astrophysics," I Google "singularity" or the like).

Perhaps it would be difficult for any character to provide topics of study through everyday function unless they speak them as they use them in the way that specialists do... goodness that's another can of worms, isn't it?

About the only female character that "feels" parallel to Sam that I can think of is the psychologist (psychiatrist?) on SGA, who we got to watch analyze and pick things apart. I also wish we saw more of her, although I admit watching her pick patients apart would be a bit of a tangent most of the time.

I do hope Weir continues to flesh out. One of my problems with her character is that her abilities are sometimes presented in a rather two-dimensional way. Successful leader, unsuccessful leader. Successful strategy, unsuccessful strategy. Successful tactic, unsuccessful tactic. But she is clearly a thinker, going back to the humanities angle, and we need more than watching her furrow her brow. I don't know why the depth, with exceptions noted, often feels missing in the presentation. I honestly felt more of her "process" when she was at SG-1.

Hopefully Weir will be fleshed out over time... after all, Sam has had 10 years.

P.S. Fellow Whedon fan here...

[silverdamascus]

On the feminist angle, the issue is obviously that the pervasiveness of the idea that smart-- is not womanly.

You see I just don't feel that's true. Maybe it's a cultural thing, maybe it's a generation gap, maybe it's just the fact that I was raised with Buffy the Vampire Slayer I've been raised by in real life, and surrounded in fiction by intelligent female characters for me the two go together. It's certainly not a unusual portrayal any more.

She flips multiple traditional ideas about femininity, attractiveness, and intelligence over all at the same time by being several "conflicting" things that successfully coexist.

I actually find that some doesn't do this, at least not as well as many other characters have done. I disagree entirely that she's held on to her femininity, though one cannot deny attractive and intelligent.

Sam's uniqueness in providing academic inspiration is largely about the viewer's ability to grab something she's talking about and run back to the real world to research it on the spot. Any one of us can take something flying out of Sam, Google it, and burn a couple of hours reading....It's tangible, it's real, and anyone can pick it up and run straight to study with it...We all know that Weir's character is the result of successful education. But we don't have the "grabbables" (please shoot me for making that word up) on the humanities angle.

Ah, I see what you're getting at! You're referring to the encouragement or ability to go and individually research the technobabble-of-the-day. I thought you were referring to encouragement to reach a higher academic standing itself. In which case I think you might be right, it's a rare position in itself and I think she is the only woman with that role. It's quite clearly McKay and Zelenka's on Atlantis. I'm not really a fan of technobabble so I prefer those two just for the friendly rivalry they've got going.

Although for what I thought you were referring to I still maintain I'm right!

I do hope Weir continues to flesh out. ...Hopefully Weir will be fleshed out over time... after all, Sam has had 10 years.

So do I, I love the fact she's been shown to have had decisions go not so well yet stood her ground against the IOC. That she has doubts but has the strength to over come them (Real World). That she can make the tough decisions yet still be emotional, I'm liking that. Though you're right she still has a way to go yet. And so as not to leave this topic still agreeing with you I think she's come further than Sam has already.

Here, have a green, it's nice to find someone to have an intelligent arguement with.

[takinspace]

You see I just don't feel that's true. Maybe it's a cultural thing, maybe it's a generation gap, maybe it's just the fact that I was raised with Buffy the Vampire Slayer I've been raised by in real life, and surrounded in fiction by intelligent female characters for me the two go together. It's certainly not a unusual portrayal any more.

We don't have much of a generation gap if you were raised with Buffy. Want to discuss "Hush" sometime?

I was thinking more of how it translates when back out in the real world, as an adult dealing with other adults. I don't personally feel that smart isn't womanly, but I hear it all the time, particularly from women when there isn't a crop of men around. I even see kids being told "don't be too smart or men won't like you" or some variant. And it makes me mad!

But I also notice you're in Scotland and I'm in the US, so we may be observing different cultural norms (I've never been outside the US), and there may also be a difference in socioeconomic scales in the mix. To a great degree one's perception of what's "everyday" depends on what's around you most of the time. It sounds like you have some better "everyday" going on than I do!

Sam is, regardless, highly unusual as a successful, lead female character in the math/science space, and that's a pretty big loss. There isn't much getting around that aspect of her uniqueness (unless you're getting much different TV over there than we are in the states?).

Ah, I see what you're getting at! You're referring to the encouragement or ability to go and individually research the technobabble-of-the-day. I thought you were referring to encouragement to reach a higher academic standing itself.

They're joined at the hip. I was an academic achiever and that has followed me professionally. Having something specific to take and run with on my own was critical to that achievement, and it's what I think some of the female posters who are/were inspired by Sam are getting at. It applies on both specific (term) and generic (subject area) levels. Weir is a tough(er) one to follow by example either way, at least in the most direct sense.

Anyway, like you said, Sam will be around in reruns. And on DVD, and hopefully in whatever happens to SG-1. So we Sam geeks... and Sam geeks who think she's hot *because* she's smart... will keep watching.