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GateWorld
April 26th, 2004, 01:58 PM
<DIV ALIGN="center"><TABLE WIDTH="450" BORDER="0" CELLSPACING="0" CELLPADDING="7"><TR><TD STYLE="border:0;"><DIV ALIGN="left"><FONT FACE="Verdana, Arial, san-serif" SIZE="2" COLOR="#000000"><A HREF="http://www.gateworld.net/atlantis/s3/307.shtml"><IMG SRC="http://www.gateworld.net/atlantis/graphics/307.jpg" WIDTH="160" HEIGHT="120" ALIGN="right" HSPACE="10" VSPACE="2" BORDER="0" STYLE="border: 1px black solid" ALT="Visit the Episode Guide"></A><FONT SIZE="1" COLOR="#888888">ATLANTIS SEASON THREE</FONT>
<FONT SIZE="4"><A HREF="http://www.gateworld.net/atlantis/s3/307.shtml" STYLE="text-decoration: none">COMMON GROUND</A></FONT>
<FONT SIZE="1">EPISODE NUMBER - 307</FONT>
<IMG SRC="/images/clear.gif" WIDTH="1" HEIGHT="10" ALT="">
Colonel Sheppard finds himself the prisoner of a Genii commander, along with a Wraith who has been separated from his hive.

<FONT SIZE="1" COLOR="#888888"><B><A HREF="http://www.gateworld.net/atlantis/s3/307.shtml">VISIT THE EPISODE GUIDE ></A></B>
SPOILERS! PHOTOS! AND MORE!</FONT></FONT></DIV></TD></TR></TABLE></DIV>

coolove
August 25th, 2006, 07:09 PM
Hmmm... not an entirely bad episode.

Descent
August 25th, 2006, 07:09 PM
A really great episode that marks an amazing return for Koyla and leads to some very interesting insight about the Wraith. This season is definately the best yet.

10/10 from me!

AGateFan
August 25th, 2006, 07:10 PM
Thank god for finally letting them not scrw anyone over. And they had two chances and managed to make the right choice in both.

Nice episode.

Hazzerd
August 25th, 2006, 07:10 PM
I think tonights episode was one fo the best i have ever seen of atlanis as we learn more about the wraith as well as a very good story line.

Just my thoughts

Descent
August 25th, 2006, 07:11 PM
Ken Cuperus rules and we WILL be seeing Koyla and that Wraith again. No doubt about it.

Descent
August 25th, 2006, 07:12 PM
I'd also like to add that Ken Cuperus did a terrific first job writing on the show, I hope he stays on Atlantis cause hes definately got talent!

Major Gambit
August 25th, 2006, 07:12 PM
Great episode

The wraith are getting less and less evil it seems. This was a great week for the gates, two amazing episodes. Laden looked weird without his gotee.


I wonder what other secrets the wraith have in store.

Mitchell82
August 25th, 2006, 07:13 PM
Ken Cuperus rules and we WILL be seeing Koyla and that Wraith again. No doubt about it.
I hope so this was a great episode!

Ltcolshepjumper
August 25th, 2006, 07:14 PM
Very good episode! But they played the Unas-Daniel music. But it was sort of appropiate.:sheppard:

leighanners
August 25th, 2006, 07:14 PM
A really great episode that marks an amazing return for Koyla and leads to some very interesting insight about the Wraith. This season is definately the best yet.

10/10 from me!

I agree! I think this episode was wonderful. I always love it when the Genii show up. They are some of my favorite...bad guys?...quasi bad guys?...semi quasi bad guys?...I dunno. I like em though! And I love the fact that we got to have some insight into the Wraith, and that they do have some sort of heart, I guess you could say.

NowIWillDestroyAbydos
August 25th, 2006, 07:15 PM
Awesome ep, good to see Kolya back. Damn did Shep look old. Next weeks ep looks pretty freaking awesome.

fullmetalmonkey
August 25th, 2006, 07:16 PM
"One of the best episodes i have ever seen"

Indeed.

I would like to know more about the Wraith "Gift Of Life".

923flanigan
August 25th, 2006, 07:16 PM
I think there is only one word to describe this episode. Awesome!

To find out the wraith could give life...I had a hunch, but man, when he actually did it...WOW!

I have to admit, I stood up and started clapping so hard I bruised my hands when the credits rolled.

10 out of 10 for sure! Well, maybe 9.5...you never know, something could be better. But right now, I'm thinking that was one of the best episodes ever.

*slides quietly out and goes back to lurking*

NightGloom
August 25th, 2006, 07:17 PM
Good episode... loved the Genii, always love the wraith, but the ending seemed a bit like a copout to me, I'm not sure why. I mean, I know it would have been worse if Dr. Beckett miraculously turned Sheppard young again, but the wraith restoring life seems like the zat gun with the third shot disinigrates. But is that like the wraith throwing up?

FerCryinOutLoud!
August 25th, 2006, 07:18 PM
My favorite Atlantis episode ever! I mean it was compelling and had me on the edge of my seat the whole time. I always like stories where you get to understand your enemy. I called the Wraith giving back life, i mean at first i thought it would be something extremely predictable like Becket finding a cure. But i think the wraith giving back life was just cooler. It was nice to see some emotion from the cast too. A great episode.

Mitchell82
August 25th, 2006, 07:19 PM
I agree! I think this episode was wonderful. I always love it when the Genii show up. They are some of my favorite...bad guys?...quasi bad guys?...semi quasi bad guys?...I dunno. I like em though! And I love the fact that we got to have some insight into the Wraith, and that they do have some sort of heart, I guess you could say.
Agreed! This was a great ep and I loved the Shep, Wraith thing. Koyla at his finest. Great ep! 10/10!

prion
August 25th, 2006, 07:19 PM
I LOVED IT!

Okay, I'm a big Shep whump fan but I liked it overall for plotting, characterization, etc., and thankfully the ilnteresting new skill the wraith demonstrated, otherwise we'd be Shep-less.

Chris Hyerdahl was great as the Wraith; imparted a nice desperate quality of a trapped being who saw no hope of escape until Shep came along.

Now, the 'brother' thing was pretty creepy but well, this is another galaxy and Shep's deal did save his life.

Definitely want a follow-up to this one, and the next time Shep sees Kolya, I want to just see him try to kill him right off the bat. He deserves the right to after what Kolya did, which was despicable by any society's standards.

Kudos to Ken on his first SGA script!

Xellos205
August 25th, 2006, 07:19 PM
Tonight episode was good but I don't think it's the best. So far PROGENY is the best of the season. There are many episodes yet to come so I'll keep an open mind.:jack:

leighanners
August 25th, 2006, 07:20 PM
But is that like the wraith throwing up?

I thought the exact same thing. That's kinda gross...but I guess being thrown up on by a wraith is better than dying?

Stef
August 25th, 2006, 07:20 PM
I LOVED IT!

Okay, I'm a big Shep whump fan but I liked it overall for plotting, characterization, etc., and thankfully the ilnteresting new skill the wraith demonstrated, otherwise we'd be Shep-less.

Chris Hyerdahl was great as the Wraith; imparted a nice desperate quality of a trapped being who saw no hope of escape until Shep came along.

Now, the 'brother' thing was pretty creepy but well, this is another galaxy and Shep's deal did save his life.

Definitely want a follow-up to this one, and the next time Shep sees Kolya, I want to just see him try to kill him right off the bat. He deserves the right to after what Kolya did, which was despicable by any society's standards.

Kudos to Ken on his first SGA script!

I thought it was a well done episode. I was a little hesitant about it at first because I didn't recognize the writer's name but he did a good job with this one...hopefully we'll see more from him. I definitely liked how he made Weir strong and level-headed. Yeah, I would have liked her to have done whatever it took to get him back...but that's probably why I would make a terrible leader. Let someone question her decision-making now (to all you Weir haters). As much as it pained me, she made the right call and I'm glad they acknowledged the politics of the situation.

I agree with you prion about the Kolya thing....I'd LOVE to see John pull a Mal Reynolds and just shoot him in the head, no questions, no bargaining, nothing. I doubt that would happen though....didn't the writers say that they were trying to steer away from that type of action/character because it was "unrelateable" and "too dark." Blah, blah, blah. After what Kolya has put John through I think he's allowed to do what he wants with him.

Hopefully that wraith and John will cross paths again...did we ever get his name...even a Shep-made one?

-Stef

Ltcolshepjumper
August 25th, 2006, 07:20 PM
I LOVED IT!

Okay, I'm a big Shep whump fan but I liked it overall for plotting, characterization, etc., and thankfully the ilnteresting new skill the wraith demonstrated, otherwise we'd be Shep-less.

Chris Hyerdahl was great as the Wraith; imparted a nice desperate quality of a trapped being who saw no hope of escape until Shep came along.

Now, the 'brother' thing was pretty creepy but well, this is another galaxy and Shep's deal did save his life.

Definitely want a follow-up to this one, and the next time Shep sees Kolya, I want to just see him try to kill him right off the bat. He deserves the right to after what Kolya did, which was despicable by any society's standards.

Kudos to Ken on his first SGA script!

And that would be.... Irresponsible.:sheppard:

Verity5
August 25th, 2006, 07:21 PM
Best all around episode of the season. The writing was excellent, the production and acting were of the highest quality this season. Finally, the writer let the characters get back their moral compass. And the obligatory make fun of McKay scene wasn't nearly as egregious as previous episodes, including the infamous SG1 Pegasus Project.

Finally, You got a ten.

PS you seriously need to keep the writer of this episode.

V5

stubadingdong
August 25th, 2006, 07:21 PM
I loved the return of Kolya and the Genii. Interesting twist with the Wraith able to give life back (though I have to admit I saw that coming since they hatched their escape). I still wouldn't trust the Wraith though, after only one guy proved trustworthy with a mutual goal. All bets are off, after all. ;)

Can't wait for the next Kolya episode!! I hope he snags Rodney next time.

Major_Griff
August 25th, 2006, 07:21 PM
Great ep all time favs definatly! The wraith maybe have just been given new life as villains, no longer are they cardboard cutouts if theyfollow this right.

jackattack
August 25th, 2006, 07:22 PM
Wow amazing episode!! Kolya is officially one evil dude but what a way to return!!! Overall 10/10 due to the fact of A) A Genii episode B) A Wraith- Shep team up C) A return of a sure- to -be classic villain. Just great! :sheppard:

Descent
August 25th, 2006, 07:23 PM
Can't wait for the next Kolya episode!! I hope he snags Rodney next time.

You and me both! :mckay:

Captain-Peregrine
August 25th, 2006, 07:23 PM
I thought this episode was amazing. For most of season two I was disappointed with a lot of the Sheppisodes, but this one was amazing! I thought he was brilliant and the whole thing about him making an alliance with the Wraith was really cool. And I hate Kolya, but he is such a good bad guy I am sort of grudgingly happy to see that he's not dead yet.

All in all, I thought this was a really good episode though the ending was rather predictable. Other than that, though, I was really impressed with 'Common Ground'.

Kem Rixen
August 25th, 2006, 07:25 PM
Wow, this season has been so strong so far, two increadible episodes so early on, Sateda and Common Ground. If SGA can keep this up I can see it running for a long, long, long, long time. I love Robert Davi as Koyla, a great actor and a great villian. It was such a great episode, I was so happy that Shep didn't get out by himself, the teamwork aspect was so cool. I could keep going just because it was so great.

Merlin7
August 25th, 2006, 07:28 PM
Fantastic ep. Called the ending pretty quick, and it was too rushed...as always of late. But much love otherwise. My guts were twisted into knots all the way through it.

And Joe F. did a fantastic Job. Now if we can just get a Shep story with focus on Sheppard and his backstory, I'll be a happy fan.

mindfire
August 25th, 2006, 07:30 PM
I loved the return of Kolya and the Genii. Interesting twist with the Wraith able to give life back (though I have to admit I saw that coming since they hatched their escape). I still wouldn't trust the Wraith though, after only one guy proved trustworthy with a mutual goal. All bets are off, after all. ;)

Can't wait for the next Kolya episode!! I hope he snags Rodney next time.


I loved this episode as well, I always wondered if the Wraith could give life back.

KindlyKeller
August 25th, 2006, 07:30 PM
Great, great, great episode. I mean, it was obvious Shep was going to get changed back, but the way they did it was very cool and came as a surprise to me. I loved the tenuous friendship between Sheppard and the Wraith and it was quite interesting to hear said Wraith chuckle. They grasp levity, it seems, which is fascinating in and of itself.

I actually didn't think there was any aspect that came off rushed at all, even the ending. The pacing was absolutely perfect. This episode flat out rocked.

Descent
August 25th, 2006, 07:33 PM
This season has been covering a lot more ground that Two did, especially with the characters which makes me a very happy SGA fan. :sheppard:

Hazzerd
August 25th, 2006, 07:35 PM
I didn't use spoiler tags because i didn't spoil anything i was just saying it was a very good episode maybe poeple who write will use spoiler tags. Its not like i gave anythign away.

lirenel
August 25th, 2006, 07:35 PM
Wow, one of my favorite eps and more proof that this season is sooooooo much better than season two. I was literally whimpering when Sheppard was being fed upon while the others in Atlantis watched.

And the brother comment was great. I love a three-dimensional wraith...did anyone get his name? I'm thinking Carl.

Ronon was a bit over-the-top, though i may be biased because Ladon is my favorite Genii. But that plus the obligatory make-fun-of-Rodney scene gives it a 9 out of 10. Though Rodney's little speech to the soldiers almost makes up for it.

Also: Will someone please please please write a fanfic where Rodney is the one captured? I would, but considering I'm still writing a fic I started before last season's Critical Mass, it would probably be mid-forth season by the time I finished it.

Major Gambit
August 25th, 2006, 07:37 PM
We have an episode thread use it, this is not the place to talk about the the whole ep and you didn't use spoiler tags! :cool:



ditto

Verity5
August 25th, 2006, 07:38 PM
This is possibly the best episode yet for season 3. The writing, production and acting were excellent. This episode seems to have found Atlantis's missing moral compass. About time, too. Also, the obligatory McKay stupid/silly moment was less egregious than in previous episodes, including the insulting SG1 Pegasus Project.

Finally, a ten.

PS, Please keep this writer. Will be interested to see more of his work.

V5

gambit
August 25th, 2006, 07:42 PM
Great episode! A dark episode as well, Sheppard is a bada** even with the body of an old man. Throwing the knife and using that guy as shield...amazing.

At the end when Sheppard grabbed the communicator and was talking to Kolya, it reminded me of Kirk speaking to Kahn in Star Trek 2, telling him he is still alive.

Ironic
August 25th, 2006, 07:45 PM
Thank god for finally letting them not scrw anyone over. And they had two chances and managed to make the right choice in both.

Nice episode.
Good point. I loved that both Sheppard and Elizabeth stood up to their own code of honor - both in very different ways.

Onto my reactions to the episode: I'm a sucker for any Genii episode, and this was no exception. They seriously are the best villians in both SGA and SG-1, at least in my eyes. Anybody else agree with me on that? The Storm. The Eye. Brotherhood's End. The little part with Weir bound and blind-folded in "Siege II." Coup d'etat. And now this. I have never had villians that I love so much. My Kolya-love/hate is only rivaled by my Laden-love/hate. I'm glad they decided to bring back Laden. His performance in Coup d'etat was surprisingly refreshing and enjoyable, and I was worried the PTB were going to chuck him to the side in favor of Kolya. Glad they didn't. Although Kolya took the prise as best villian, no doubt. I have to say, I saw more than a little bit of regret in his eyes at what he was doing to John. Surprising, and ever-dynamic. Gotta love those types of villians.

John Sheppard - You looked freaky when you were old, but I still totally dug you because were still the same sarcastic guy until the end. They can take your life, but they can never take your freedom humor. This is the John Sheppard I love to watch so much. I loved his faith in his friends. The PTB are really emphasizing that with both John and Ronon this season.

Quick highlights:

Ronon - his anger never gets old. I'm sorry to those that find his character one-dimensional, but for me, it just always works.

McKay - the mouse killer! Ah, your cowardice never gets old, either. Loved his concern for John, too. And the last line he had. "He looks younger than he did before!" LOL! Also, the little scene where he roused up the marines with his Sheppard-like speech, and afterwards, where he looked back at Elizabeth and shared a moment. Dude, this episode brought back so many flashbacks to the John/Elizabeth/Rodney moments in "the Storm/The Eye."

Teyla . . . um, dude, PTB, can you remember that Teyla is a cast member, please? I saw her look of concern for 2.5 seconds, and the rest of the time, you forgot about her - again! Please stop doing that! (Although, I did get a kick out of seeing her go through the the door second during the raid. Not even the marines overruled her presence. Sweet.)

Elizabeth - well, she was just awesome. Totally cool and level-headed, and unflinching. Except for the close-ups of concern they showed when John was being fed upon, playing the stoic leader that can't quite cut off her emotions when it comes to her closest friends to a "T." I have to hand it to the writers this season, they're really getting their characters right. This is the Weir I want to see. This is the leader that shines.

The Wraith - great performance by whoever the actor was. Loved the interesting dynamic between him and Sheppard, but then, I also loved the Teyla-Michael dynamic, and this reminds me of that.

It's worth repeating - Sheppard just rocked. Finally, a Sheppard-centric episode that doesn't fail to live up to it's expectations. (Although, I suppose, "Conversion" was pretty darn good.)

npattis
August 25th, 2006, 07:47 PM
One of the best parts of the show was definatly Sheppard getting fed upon. Wow, great television! Shame the Wraith didn't finish the job!

Descent
August 25th, 2006, 07:49 PM
Ronon - his angry never gets old. I'm sorry to those that find his character one-dimensional, but for me, it just always works.

I love Ronon and his relationship with John. Notice the similarities between Sheppard's anger of Ronon's capture in Sateda and now Ronon's anger at Sheppard's capture. It angers him that because of our own allies: Sheppards suffering horribly. I'd just like to see him start to bond with people other than John or Teyla. :ronan:

npattis
August 25th, 2006, 07:50 PM
Also, that really irked me was Sheppard. He was a deceprid old man who could barely breath and stand on his own. Oh, but he managed to subdue two young guards with ease........

KindlyKeller
August 25th, 2006, 07:54 PM
One of the best parts of the show was definatly Sheppard getting fed upon. Wow, great television! Shame the Wraith didn't finish the job!

Seeing as you've posted that same comment like 8 times on here... I take it you don't care for Sheppard?

L.A. Doyle
August 25th, 2006, 07:54 PM
Awesome episode! I am really enjoying S3!

leighanners
August 25th, 2006, 07:56 PM
Teyla . . . um, dude, PTB, can you remember that Teyla is a cast member, please? I saw her look of concern for 2.5 seconds, and the rest of the time, you forgot about her - again! Please stop doing that! (Although, I did get a kick out of seeing her go through the the door second during the raid. Not even the marines overruled her presence. Sweet.)


Teyla? Who is this character of which you speak? I don't remember that one. ;) In all seriousness, I do miss her character. She is a good, strong female character, and I think they should get back to showing more than what they have. It's like you know she's there, but you rarely ever see her or hear her.

LaCroix
August 25th, 2006, 08:00 PM
Loved tonight's episode. I think Ironic said it all for me.

Ironic
August 25th, 2006, 08:01 PM
I love Ronon and his relationship with John. Notice the similarities between Sheppard's anger of Ronon's capture in Sateda and now Ronon's anger at Sheppard's capture. It angers him that because of our own allies: Sheppards suffering horribly. I'd just like to see him start to bond with people other than John or Teyla. :ronan:
True. He does tend to get really loyal and fierce when it comes to John and Teyla, but I don't find his relationships with other characters lacking too much. With McKay, it usually is just Ronon intimidating him, but there's some geniune bonding going on there - you can see it in "No Man's Land."

Then, there's Carson. Their dynamic hasn't been overtly explored, but you can tell that in Ronon's estimation, Carson is held in high regard. Especially in "The Runner" and "Sateda".

With Elizabeth, the dysfunctional vibe they throw off always has me in stitches.

All in all, while Ronon does tend to be attached to the hip with Teyla, and proves to be something fiercly loyal to John, I think his dynamics with other characters have shown enough to have some great potential for the future.

Dezdmona
August 25th, 2006, 08:02 PM
I really liked the ethical dilemmas faced in this epi... had me squirming in my seat from time to time.

Wier having to make the decision to sacrifice a team member.
Shep and the Wraith working together for mutual benefit.

rarocks24
August 25th, 2006, 08:03 PM
I strongly believe this to be the best Wraith ever.

I don't know why but he seemed to be one of those men who you could always look towards for guidance. When he called Sheppard a brother. I actually cried. This episode was great. We learned a lot about the Wraith, and lends credence to the hope that maybe, just maybe, the Wraith will find a new source of food and no longer require humans.

I've taken notice, and I see honor. I'm also beginning to wonder why the Wraith attacked the hive that deceived Atlantis (Allies/No Man's Land), maybe it was because that hive had no honor.

Who knows, maybe this was the Chaca of the Wraith.

Jumper One
August 25th, 2006, 08:04 PM
Sheppard's (Joe Flanigan) original motivation for entering the armed forces is revealed when he finds himself prisoner in a cell adjacent to a Wraith.
Sorry, I missed that part. Can someone fill me in?

Mitchell82
August 25th, 2006, 08:05 PM
I really liked the ethical dilemmas faced in this epi... had me squirming in my seat from time to time.

Wier having to make the decision to sacrifice a team member.
Shep and the Wraith working together for mutual benefit.
You and me both. Great ep can't believe I have to wait 2 weeks!

IWantToBelieve
August 25th, 2006, 08:06 PM
Wonderful episode, lots of depth, heavy tense moments. The ending was just a bit rushed because we don't get any character interactions at a singificant level. No emotional 'holy crap you were fed upon in front of us' kind of ramifications, but I'm okay with that. They don't get time to tell everything and that's something I accept, and the rest of it makes up for losing that bit at the end that would've made it perfect.

This is SGA at its finest.

Pocus
August 25th, 2006, 08:07 PM
Oh my!! That was an amazing episode. The Genii and a Wraith in the same episode and who ends up being the more trustworthy? The one who is the least like us (or so we would like to believe).

LOVED:
*whump started less than 2 minutes into the episode
*Kolya was awesome as ever. What a great torture (if there is such a thing)http://bestsmileys.com/clueless/5.gif
*Chris Heyerdahl's portrayal of a Wraith was magnificent. He has given the Wraith more dimension in one episode than the last two seasons combined. Here's hoping we see more of this Wraith later and Chris gets to portray some other Wraith. (I know, I know, some people hate reusing actors. Sorry)
*how we found out a possible reason some humans would want to worship Wraith. The Gift of Life might be a good incentive for some people.
*Sheppard never gave up on his friends coming. Never gave up on trying to escape, even when he was old and grey.
*the alliance between Sheppard and the Wraith. It was tenous at best but they both realized they needed each other to escape. Both agreed a "Deal is a Deal" and BOTH kept their word.
*how Weir did not give in and cited her reasons for doing so. She personally would have liked to make different choices, but professionally had to follow protocol.
*the end. We will be seeing these two characters again and I look forward to both of them.
*Rodney trying to sound like Shep and Carson calling him on it.
*RONON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
*Shep in leather (just had to add the fangirl bit) http://bestsmileys.com/blushing/3.gif

Disliked:

*........thinking

Can't come up with anything substantial. I guess I will have to watch it a few more times. ;)

IWantToBelieve
August 25th, 2006, 08:08 PM
It's been mentioned that the backstory that was supposed to be in Common Ground got shuffled to Phantoms. Look for it there.

Jumper One
August 25th, 2006, 08:09 PM
It's been mentioned that the backstory that was supposed to be in Common Ground got shuffled to Phantoms. Look for it there.
OK, thanks. I thought I was just not listening... :)

Descent
August 25th, 2006, 08:12 PM
It's been mentioned that the backstory that was supposed to be in Common Ground got shuffled to Phantoms. Look for it there.

Interesting. Aside from McKay's sister, that seems to be the most requested thing on SGA right now. This episode would've been overly perfect IMO if they showed Sheppard backstory along with it. :sheppard:

rarocks24
August 25th, 2006, 08:12 PM
Chris Heyerdahl's portrayal of a Wraith was magnificent. He has given the Wraith more dimension in one episode than the last two seasons combined. Here's hoping we see more of this Wraith later and Chris gets to portray some other Wraith. (I know, I know, some people hate reusing actors. Sorry

You obviously haven't met Steve. He and Steve are chilling out between episodes. Steve being a blue glowy thingy and well, we'll call the Wraith John. And no, no one has a problem with reusing characters to play the Wraith. We quite loved James, and Chris has proven to be a good successor. :)

Pocus
August 25th, 2006, 08:22 PM
You obviously haven't met Steve. He and Steve are chilling out between episodes. Steve being a blue glowy thingy and well, we'll call the Wraith John. And no, no one has a problem with reusing characters to play the Wraith. We quite loved James, and Chris has proven to be a good successor. :)


I remember Steve. He was cool! Very determined! :) James did a fantastic job with all his personalities. I am just glad the PTB gave this Wraith some more to do.

The Wraith in Sateda was unique also. I can't remember who played him though.

You did make me think of my one Dislike though. Sheppard did not name this Wraith! :(

FoolishPleasure
August 25th, 2006, 08:26 PM
Very good episode, even with some glaring boo-boos.

The idea of Shep and the Wraith "bonding" should have been done LONG ago, and would have gone a long way in getting fans interested in the Wraith. TPTB could have skipped such lunacy as "The Tower", or "Epiphany" and stuck this into season 2. Fans are bored with the Wraith because they can't identify with them - this certainly would have helped!

Tossing Kolya AND Ladon into the mix was a stroke of genius. We know Kolya will be back, and I still don't trust Ladon. But there was good angst in Atlantis and good Shep suffering. ;)

As for the Wraith giving life back to Shep - interesting words about brothers and worship. I so wish the writers could have given us more on their society along the way (but honestly, I don't think they even know). The Wraith COULD have been a scary and wonderfully interesting villian.

Now the bad.

Shep has been fed upon several times and everyone mentions he is near death, yet he can still take on two young-buck guards and then keep up with the Wraith. Yeah. .right. My whole family was laughing at that scene, and I doubt it was supposed to be funny.

My husband kept making cracks about Teyla's brand new push-up bra. She may have been wearing a jacket, but her, um, "assets" were straining at the bit. Come on guys. . .Rachel is a beautiful girl and can do much more than play "Warrior Princess" (oooh, look at me, I'm so HOT!) Give Teyla a REAL script and some REAL clothing.

Last, but not least. . .What does this show have against names? Poor Console Dude has been in, oh. . how many episodes? The Wraith NEVER have names (unless they are given one in jest and then whacked). Poor Lorne, he is never going to get a first name!

In conclusion - it really was an excellent episode with good characters and interesting writing. I know TPTB get rushed putting these things together so I guess I can overlook 80 year old Shep taking everyone down. But someone PLEASE give some of these characters NAMES!

BTW - terrific make-up effects on JF!

rarocks24
August 25th, 2006, 08:26 PM
I remember Steve. He was cool! Very determined! :) James did a fantastic job with all his personalities. I am just glad the PTB gave this Wraith some more to do.

The Wraith in Sateda was unique also. I can't remember who played him though.

You did make me think of my one Dislike though. Sheppard did not name this Wraith! :(
It is unfortunate. But in the end, I really don't think names are all that important.

And gosh, someone needs to post a screencap of Wraith John and Human John looking at the sky.

atlantisgate
August 25th, 2006, 08:29 PM
Hi there!

I've been lurking around GateWorld for a while, but I finally decided to sign-up and join the fun. After the episode tonight, I just couldn't resist.

I thought Common Ground was outstanding...season three just keeps getting better and better!

Dezdmona
August 25th, 2006, 08:31 PM
Hi there!

I've been lurking around GateWorld for a while, but I finally decided to sign-up and join the fun. After the episode tonight, I just couldn't resist.

I thought Common Ground was outstanding...season three just keeps getting better and better!

Welcome aboard...I'm a newbie, too that lurked forever before joining.

I can't believe I waited so long. (Doh)

Joylock
August 25th, 2006, 08:40 PM
Old man Sheppard fighting those guards was kinda out there, but not too much. The part where he flips that one guy through the air using only one arm was one of the most ridiculous things I'd ever seen, but the rest was relatively believable by the standards of movie physics.

And was anyone else reminded of Super Metroid with the whole "regurgitating life energy" thing?

expendable_crewman
August 25th, 2006, 08:40 PM
I called the ending ... well, not the "brother" part, which just opens up all kinds of possibilities. Please, please do not let this teaser go unsatisfied, PTBs. If there's more we don't understand, let's have it.

I am hungry for more on this.

Anyway, I called the ending and the beauty of this episode was, I was begging for it. It didn't feel rushed, as I was shouting at the television for the final ten minutes, "Give it back!" I really didn't want Carson to fix this one and early on it was pretty obvious Carson was too far away.

The Ronon angst was a good flip on the Sateda dynamic. Rodney had a lot of fire. I'm still nervous when I see Rodney with a gun, but okay. Weir channeled awesome leadership. I noticed during feeding # 2, when she said no, Sheppard nodded at the camera. I liked the Ladon element to Kolya's motivation, meaning I'm glad it wasn't just about Sheppard and Kolya, although their conflict flowed through the entire episode. The Ladon element spiced Weir's scenes tremendously.

My only complaint: I didn't know there was a back seat as far from the main event as the one Teyla had. (??)

I've always thought, from Rising till now, being fed on by a Wraith was one of Sheppard's worst nightmares. Thanks to JF's performance, now I know.

Tipper
August 25th, 2006, 08:42 PM
Hi! My first ever post here--very nervous! I've been reading the forums for a long time without ever having the courage to speak up...but something in this episode really tickled me, and I wanted to see if I was out in left field regarding an impression that I got.

Oh, first, yes, I loved the episode! Now, the question...

Since we now know that the Wraith can give life, as well as take it away, do you think that means that, with respect to the worshipers, they not only don't kill them...they can keep them young? I.e., that the Wraith, for a worshiper, could act almost like a fountain of youth? Which, obviously, would be a huge incentive for someone to become a worshiper. Who knows how long they could live! It could also explain why all the worshipers we saw in the Hive were young. Very young. Meaning, maybe...Neera was much older than she looked?

I ask this because you guys read the spoilers and ruminate on things much longer than I do (I like being surprised)...Of course, maybe this has already been discussed? If so, you can send me to that thread, and I won't bother you again...

(PS -- I tried to submit this before, but it didn't show up, so there may be...multiple posts. I told you I was new! I'm sorry if that happens!)

leighanners
August 25th, 2006, 08:43 PM
I was one that lurked around for a long time, joined, then still lurked some more. So welcome from me as well!

I didn't notice until someone else mentioned it, but it makes me sad that this Wraith had no name. I like it when John names them. I know it's not the point, but hasn't every Wraith that has had major screen time had a name?

O'Neil
August 25th, 2006, 08:43 PM
Tonights episode wasnt all that bad. But I still cant help but think that Shepperd (and the rest of the team) wouldnt have to be worried with Kolya if he would have just shot him in the first place and got it over with, but that wouldnt have worked, because we all know there has to be some sort of soap opera style storyline with reoccuring characters.... maybe next time we see kolya, he'll be pregnant and tell everyone its Shepperds. :rolleyes:

gambit
August 25th, 2006, 08:48 PM
Tonights episode wasnt all that bad. But I still cant help but think that Shepperd (and the rest of the team) wouldnt have to be worried with Kolya if he would have just shot him in the first place and got it over with, but that wouldnt have worked, because we all know there has to be some sort of soap opera style storyline with reoccuring characters.... maybe next time we see kolya, he'll be pregnant and tell everyone its Shepperds. :rolleyes:

Well if you remember Sheppard did say he should have killed him long ago.

MinOs
August 25th, 2006, 08:49 PM
Wow, great episode! I hope we will see this wraith again.

Ironic
August 25th, 2006, 08:49 PM
Weir channeled awesome leadership. I noticed during feeding # 2, when she said no, Sheppard nodded at the camera.

Did that really happen? He nodded in approval? Must rewatch the episode now!

gambit
August 25th, 2006, 08:52 PM
Did that really happen? He nodded in approval? Must rewatch the episode now!

I think he also managed to signal her "no" before she actually said anything, but I'll have to watch it again to be sure.

white noise
August 25th, 2006, 08:53 PM
Tonights episode wasnt all that bad. But I still cant help but think that Shepperd (and the rest of the team) wouldnt have to be worried with Kolya if he would have just shot him in the first place and got it over with, but that wouldnt have worked, because we all know there has to be some sort of soap opera style storyline with reoccuring characters.... maybe next time we see kolya, he'll be pregnant and tell everyone its Shepperds. :rolleyes:

my thoughts exactly! love the preggers part. i thought it was super to find a wraith with a brain and a sense of humor. great episode, one of my favorites, so far, next to sateda. also loved the combat bonding........that rocked!

Ironic
August 25th, 2006, 08:53 PM
I think he also managed to signal her "no" before she actually said anything, but I'll have to watch it again to be sure.
Huh. Thanks. I'll watch out for it the next time I watch the episode.

NightGloom
August 25th, 2006, 08:56 PM
Mmmk, so a little off-topic and a little old, but anyone else smell a Brokeback Mountain spoof? Or just a complete Romeo/ Juliet slashy video between Shep and the Wraith (who remains nameless... cause he's cooler that way)

expendable_crewman
August 25th, 2006, 09:01 PM
On the name thing, from the Wraith perspective, I think sharing names with beings outside their society is a negative. When asked for names in Allies, a situation that warranted formal introductions, the Wraith offered stony stares. In some cultures, it's believed that someone having your name gives them power over you. I'm just guessing but I have noticed the Wraith never offer names.

Regarding Sheppard not naming this Wraith, I noticed he smacked those names on past Wraith with contempt, loathing, whatever, but not because he wanted a way to a one on one.

So, he maybe didn't name this Wraith because he knew the Wraith already had a name. The others had names, too, so in this case, the ommission would indicate respect.

To the poster about the Wraith worshipers, excellent concept. I mean, there's a big can of possibilities that just opened up. Which means there are humans who know a lot about the Wraith, too ... as in more than we've seen thus far.

Major Jessica Davis
August 25th, 2006, 09:02 PM
Does anyone know the code word for the preview that you can get from Sci-fi?

gambit
August 25th, 2006, 09:04 PM
Does anyone know the code word for the preview that you can get from Sci-fi?

KOLYA

leighanners
August 25th, 2006, 09:06 PM
Does anyone know the code word for the preview that you can get from Sci-fi?
kolya...and it actually works this week!

Anjirika
August 25th, 2006, 09:06 PM
Well if you remember Sheppard did say he should have killed him long ago.

That is true...and I must say, I am so looking forward to seeing this episode!

MmmCesium
August 25th, 2006, 09:27 PM
Yay! Somebody that can write for Weir! Everyone else should be banned from writing her. :P
It's like this guy went into the future, read all the threads on GW, and wrote according to them.

Descent
August 25th, 2006, 09:31 PM
I'm glad the Wraith was not named cause naming him would just put him with the past Wraiths Shep has named and hes not like those guys at all....okay okay, just call him Tim. Tim works. :P

Sauron18
August 25th, 2006, 09:44 PM
Speaking of names, I do wish he'd told Sheppard his name, we've never really heard a Wraith name.

Yes, it's possible the males don't have names (The Queens Do) but I find it more and more unlikely the more we know about them.

rarocks24
August 25th, 2006, 09:53 PM
Pardon me, where is it stated the Queens have names? ;)

Every Queen has been fannamed

Queen/Keeper Rising: Sally
Queen/The Hive: Sue
Queen/Allies/No Man's Land: Mina

NotAscended
August 25th, 2006, 10:09 PM
Welcome, Tipper!



Since we now know that the Wraith can give life, as well as take it away, do you think that means that, with respect to the worshipers, they not only don't kill them...they can keep them young? I.e., that the Wraith, for a worshiper, could act almost like a fountain of youth? Which, obviously, would be a huge incentive for someone to become a worshiper. Who knows how long they could live! It could also explain why all the worshipers we saw in the Hive were young. Very young. Meaning, maybe...Neera was much older than she looked?

I thought the same thing. It puts a whole new spin on the worshippers/collaborators that we saw in prior episodes, although it's something that doesn't seem to be well-known in the Pegasus Galaxy, as neither Ronan or Teyla (both well-travelled) had heard of it.

It will be interesting if TPTB explore this concept more. Maybe it is an offshoot of the human DNA and the kinds of healing powers that people can display on the path to Ascension or it could be some property of their bug DNA, which means Iratus bugs might be co-opted into healing bugs.

Armagaiden
August 25th, 2006, 10:12 PM
We have an episode thread use it, this is not the place to talk about the the whole ep and you didn't use spoiler tags! :cool:

Gimme a break, you're in the season 3 DISCUSSION FORUM, WHY WOULDN'T THERE BE SPOILERS?? Shouldn't have to use them period.

Armagaiden
August 25th, 2006, 10:17 PM
I think tonights episode was one fo the best i have ever seen of atlanis as we learn more about the wraith as well as a very good story line.

Just my thoughts

I for one couldn't agree more. Although these shows were all produced sometime ago, I couldn't help but feel vindicated for last episode with Michael and how they handled that.

Not only that, but the actions of Weir and the Geni were also in high question as we all know how the directors/writers/producers right the stories when Weir trusts alien governments, ESPECIALLY WHEN IT COMES TO THE GENI :rolleyes: Yet another refreshing and surprising change FOR THE BETTER.

Throughout this episode and from the previews I thought for sure things would end up the same way in a negative way. But they didn't, and I applaude the director/writers/producers for once.

One of the best episodes ever imo.

ILoveMe
August 25th, 2006, 10:18 PM
I felt so sorry for Sheppard! I actually teared up on that last forced feeding in front of Koyla. I never really hated Koyla until this ep though. I just felt he was a solider trying to do what he felt was best for his peeps...... now..... the guy is an basterd! And a coward to boot. Made me actually like that Laden Redeem fella, even though he is a sneaky Genii.

I got to say the old age make-up effects got a boast for this ep. Old Weir looked crappy in season one. Feable Sheppard looked it like skin and bones! It was horrible! But good horrible unlike old Weir, lol. My favorite moment was when Sheppard was all "They are focusing their search around the gate. They must have thought we knew where we were going." and then the feeble wraith dude chuckles. That Wraith rocked! I wish he got a name. :(

Rodney shooting the mouse was kinda funny, but also just kind of annoying.

I wonder if the Wraith guy will show up again? I don't know for sure if he knows that they are from Atlantis.... but if he figures it out.... *shakes head* Another massive build up of Wraith forces attacks Atlantis in the season finale.... but wait... wait.... see ya next season!

Why do they keep showing the "Get in the Gate" commercials? SG-1 got canceled! The winner won't be able to be in both shows! False advertising! Whoever wins should sue. That will serve them right

Can't wait until the 2 Rodney's/3 McKay's eppy next time, even if it is 2 weeks away. :mckay: :mckayanime18:

Orion's Star
August 25th, 2006, 10:19 PM
This episode was a perfect example of why Weir cannot be trusted in situations like this. As soon as something bad happens to Sheppard, she should just put Teyla in charge (somewhat kidding). The scene when Sheppard was first being tortured and she was screaming "No! No!" like a despondent lover were just terribly bad. The fact that she even considered giving over Ladon, a head of state and the only major ally they have in the PG, just to save Sheppard was also equally bad. Why did Weir even keep Ladon as essentially a prisoner in Atlantis if she was not going to give him over to Koyla? Look what happened as soon as she let him go, he gets the information they need to go find Sheppard, yet she is holding him there in Atlantis out of some misguided and subtle threat.

Also, the whole concept of the buddy pairing with the wraith was absolutely, positively ludicrous. Yes, it was done well and entertaining, but the entire plot totally rings false.

In Misbegotten, we have a wraith that helps the entire crew of the Daedalus, saving their lives (not just Sheppard). He does this, as many argued, out of his own self-interest, but still he helps. He knows of the existence of Atlantis. What happens to this wraith? He is imprisoned, transformed to something against his will, betrayed despite his essential assistance to the people from Atlantis. In Common Ground, we have a wraith that saves the life of Sheppard only. He does this primarily out of his own self-interest. He also knows of the existence of Atlantis (he must know). What happens to this wraith? Is he betrayed? No, he is set free, and is actually treated as some kind of special wraith who is somehow the equal of the human Sheppard.

Where were these sympathetic feelings of Sheppard toward the wraith back during Misbegotten? Getting the life sucked out of you apparently changes your viewpoints on a lot of different things.

Armagaiden
August 25th, 2006, 10:21 PM
Tonight episode was good but I don't think it's the best. So far PROGENY is the best of the season. There are many episodes yet to come so I'll keep an open mind.:jack:

Ugh, progeny played out like every other alien encounter. We find new people, weir trusts new people, they betray us. we find one that might be swayed, we lose them, we lose any chance of new techological advances in the process, and we gain yet another new enemy. :rolleyes: NEXT!

JanusAncient
August 25th, 2006, 10:21 PM
Didn't comment on last week's episode, but this week's was quite good. Firgured that the Wraith would have the ability to heal other's, and makes me wonder what else don't we know about the Wraith. Kolya, he was his usual self, don't get me wrong I like it, spices up the show when he's around. Ronon's distrust is beginning to annoy, can they really give him nothing other than complaints? Weir, this team, they seem to be more and more willing to kill, the longer they inhabit that city. They were fresh and wide-eyed when they arrived, now it's shoot first and ask question's later, but Kolya had something coming, an eye for an eye I don't know.

memnarch
August 25th, 2006, 10:25 PM
Excellent episode! I loved seeing Kolya again, as he's one of only big recurring villains to have names (that's a little sad, c'mon!). His harpoon gun was pretty cool. Anyway, Sheppard was great here. I felt like his being at the center of the show wasn't just because he was the male lead like in other episodes. His connection with the Wraith (who I hope comes back and gets a name, more on that later) was illustrated nicely in their various hostile bonding scenes.

The Wraith was just as, if not more fascinating than, Michael. I hope we do see him again, because he gave us insight into how like us the Wraith are. Like the Tok'ra in SG1, we're shown that not all of the villain race are "evil." The Wraith need to eat humans to survive. Ultimately, if we're to defeat the Wraith, we need to find a way for them to feed on something else. Kolya was superb as usual, using distorted logic to justify his cause. There was an interesting parallel with terrorism in the real world this episode, and I applaud Ken Cuperus for not shying away from it.

The supporting cast did a nice job, particularly Weir in her dealing with Ladin and Kolya. Rodney's speech was hilarious as well. I liked Ronon's concern for Sheppard, and how he only seems to lose his cool when his friends' or his life is in danger. Teyla...once again not a lot to say. I like her character, they just don't do enough with her.

Overall though, 3.5/4 stars

leighanners
August 25th, 2006, 10:25 PM
Where were these sympathetic feelings of Sheppard toward the wraith back during Misbegotten? Getting the life sucked out of you apparently changes your viewpoints on a lot of different things.

I don't think Sheppard was sympathetic to the Wraith in this episode. They had a common goal, to get home, and apparently thought they needed each other to obtain it. They had a deal, and they both honored that deal.

KindlyKeller
August 25th, 2006, 10:29 PM
This episode was a perfect example of why Weir cannot be trusted in situations like this. As soon as something bad happens to Sheppard, she should just put Teyla in charge (somewhat kidding). The scene when Sheppard was first being tortured and she was screaming "No! No!" like a despondent lover were just terribly bad. The fact that she even considered giving over Ladon, a head of state and the only major ally they have in the PG, just to save Sheppard was also equally bad. Why did Weir even keep Ladon as essentially a prisoner in Atlantis if she was not going to give him over to Koyla? Look what happened as soon as she let him go, he gets the information they need to go find Sheppard, yet she is holding him there in Atlantis out of some misguided and subtle threat.

Also, the whole concept of the buddy pairing with the wraith was absolutely, positively ludicrous. Yes, it was done well and entertaining, but the entire plot totally rings false.

In Misbegotten, we have a wraith that helps the entire crew of the Daedalus, saving their lives (not just Sheppard). He does this, as many argued, out of his own self-interest, but still he helps. He knows of the existence of Atlantis. What happens to this wraith? He is imprisoned, transformed to something against his will, betrayed despite his essential assistance to the people from Atlantis. In Common Ground, we have a wraith that saves the life of Sheppard only. He does this primarily out of his own self-interest. He also knows of the existence of Atlantis (he must know). What happens to this wraith? Is he betrayed? No, he is set free, and is actually treated as some kind of special wraith who is somehow the equal of the human Sheppard.

Where were these sympathetic feelings of Sheppard toward the wraith back during Misbegotten? Getting the life sucked out of you apparently changes your viewpoints on a lot of different things.


I respectfully disagree with every point you make. I don't see how Weir could have handled the situation any better or more professionally (and I sometimes don't particularly care for her either), and the reason Sheppard felt sympathy was because this Wraith had been tortured by the same man who was presently torturing our beloved Colonel. Not to mention the Wraith was surprisingly civil in the cell, helped him escape, kept up his part of the deal, and GAVE HIM HIS LIFE BACK. How is that anything like "Misbegotten?"

ILoveMe
August 25th, 2006, 10:31 PM
This episode was a perfect example of why Weir cannot be trusted in situations like this. As soon as something bad happens to Sheppard, she should just put Teyla in charge (somewhat kidding). The scene when Sheppard was first being tortured and she was screaming "No! No!" like a despondent lover were just terribly bad. The fact that she even considered giving over Ladon, a head of state and the only major ally they have in the PG, just to save Sheppard was also equally bad. Why did Weir even keep Ladon as essentially a prisoner in Atlantis if she was not going to give him over to Koyla? Look what happened as soon as she let him go, he gets the information they need to go find Sheppard, yet she is holding him there in Atlantis out of some misguided and subtle threat.

Also, the whole concept of the buddy pairing with the wraith was absolutely, positively ludicrous. Yes, it was done well and entertaining, but the entire plot totally rings false.

In Misbegotten, we have a wraith that helps the entire crew of the Daedalus, saving their lives (not just Sheppard). He does this, as many argued, out of his own self-interest, but still he helps. He knows of the existence of Atlantis. What happens to this wraith? He is imprisoned, transformed to something against his will, betrayed despite his essential assistance to the people from Atlantis. In Common Ground, we have a wraith that saves the life of Sheppard only. He does this primarily out of his own self-interest. He also knows of the existence of Atlantis (he must know). What happens to this wraith? Is he betrayed? No, he is set free, and is actually treated as some kind of special wraith who is somehow the equal of the human Sheppard.

Where were these sympathetic feelings of Sheppard toward the wraith back during Misbegotten? Getting the life sucked out of you apparently changes your viewpoints on a lot of different things.

The Wraith in this ep doesn't know about Atlantis/Earth - galaxy full of humans - because he has been inprisioned for years, while Micheal on the other hand did. Even if his little wraithy buddies recognize the name "John Sheppard" or his description of the Atlantis team uniforms and they go to Atlantis to check it out...danger, danger... no, wait... cloaking devise. John and freinds would only be seen as "Survivors of Atlantis", since they wouldn't be able to see the city and it's reasonable for the Wraith assume if the city had been destroyed, some of the inhabitants would have gated off world first. Micheal on the other hand could squeal like a pig to let them know about the cloaking devise.

And PS... WEIR RULES!!!!!! Go Weir! :p

NotAscended
August 25th, 2006, 10:34 PM
I don't think Sheppard was sympathetic to the Wraith in this episode. They had a common goal, to get home, and apparently thought they needed each other to obtain it. They had a deal, and they both honored that deal.

The fact that John honored the deal is, I hope, a huge step forward in Wraith/human interactions. The SGA team let Michael down at pretty much every opportunity, and the Wraith queen turned on SGA when they tried to hold up a bargain with her. This was the first time that a bargain with the Wraith was honored on both sides.

Peanutbutter
August 25th, 2006, 10:34 PM
So... I may be the only one here, but I find the Wraith (as a species) less sympathetic after meeting this new guy. If they have the ability to restore life without, as far as I could tell, any negative effects on themselves... why do they go around slaughtering people? Couldn't humans and Wraith co-exist (in some sick and twisted feed/restore cycle)?

(And holy moly we didn't see much of Teyla but what we did see were BOOBS. Sheesh. Lovely actress, but I wouldn't mind seeing a bit less flesh.)

KindlyKeller
August 25th, 2006, 10:41 PM
[QUOTE=Peanutbutter]So... I may be the only one here, but I find the Wraith (as a species) less sympathetic after meeting this new guy. If they have the ability to restore life without, as far as I could tell, any negative effects on themselves... why do they go around slaughtering people? Couldn't humans and Wraith co-exist (in some sick and twisted feed/restore cycle)?

[QUOTE]

I think the reason the Wraith was able to restore Sheppard was because he'd just fed on the Genii guards and, as such, had the energy to spare.

ILoveMe
August 25th, 2006, 10:42 PM
So... I may be the only one here, but I find the Wraith (as a species) less sympathetic after meeting this new guy. If they have the ability to restore life without, as far as I could tell, any negative effects on themselves... why do they go around slaughtering people? Couldn't humans and Wraith co-exist (in some sick and twisted feed/restore cycle)?

(And holy moly we didn't see much of Teyla but what we did see were BOOBS. Sheesh. Lovely actress, but I wouldn't mind seeing a bit less flesh.)

I didn't notice her boobs, lol.

Anyways, the Wraith sucked out a lot more life out of Shepho and then proceeded to suck dry 2 Genii soliders. Or at least I am assuming it was two, why else would he keep the other dude alive while he feed on one of the soliders? If that was the case, the Wraith was well feed and plenty of "extra life" to spare to John. So unless, the humans are willing to live with the fact that another person gets wraithed to death so that they can be restored... Yeah... I don't see much co-existing going on. Except for the few crazies that worship the Wraith of course. But like I said, they are crazy, so don't count. :)

GreyFox
August 25th, 2006, 10:45 PM
best ep behind progeny and way above the hell awful real world

leighanners
August 25th, 2006, 10:45 PM
So... I may be the only one here, but I find the Wraith (as a species) less sympathetic after meeting this new guy. If they have the ability to restore life without, as far as I could tell, any negative effects on themselves... why do they go around slaughtering people? Couldn't humans and Wraith co-exist (in some sick and twisted feed/restore cycle)?

(And holy moly we didn't see much of Teyla but what we did see were BOOBS. Sheesh. Lovely actress, but I wouldn't mind seeing a bit less flesh.)

Because that would be cruel? What human would want to be fed upon repeatedly? And it could have the same effects like the sarcophagus maybe? After prolonged use, it stops having an affect?

Didn't notice in this episode, but I did noticed Teyla was a bit booby in Sateda as well.

Peanutbutter
August 25th, 2006, 10:57 PM
Because that would be cruel? What human would want to be fed upon repeatedly? And it could have the same effects like the sarcophagus maybe? After prolonged use, it stops having an affect?


Yeah, sucking them dry then reviving them isn't really the nicest thing to do -- but I'd take that over being left for dead.

However, it seems that the consensus is that he just had some extra life in him from the Genii -- so it wouldn't work out, as people would have to die anyway.

So, moot point.

leighanners
August 25th, 2006, 11:06 PM
Yeah, sucking them dry then reviving them isn't really the nicest thing to do -- but I'd take that over being left for dead.

However, it seems that the consensus is that he just had some extra life in him from the Genii -- so it wouldn't work out, as people would have to die anyway.

So, moot point.

That does seem to be the consensus, but who knows? He did say they reserved it for special people or wraith. It's a mystery! Maybe we'll find out as the journey that is Stargate:Atlantis continues...

ILoveMe
August 25th, 2006, 11:09 PM
I am sure once or twice, anyone would be like "I don't care, I just want to live", but eventually... it would be just horrible. The pain of being feed upon repeatedly and then knowing you can only be restored if someone dies. That's no way to live.

Orion's Star
August 25th, 2006, 11:11 PM
I respectfully disagree with every point you make. I don't see how Weir could have handled the situation any better or more professionally (and I sometimes don't particularly care for her either), and the reason Sheppard felt sympathy was because this Wraith had been tortured by the same man who was presently torturing our beloved Colonel. Not to mention the Wraith was surprisingly civil in the cell, helped him escape, kept up his part of the deal, and GAVE HIM HIS LIFE BACK. How is that anything like "Misbegotten?"
While I won't get into the Weir stuff, I am not sure what you are talking about. Misbegotten was an extension of No Man's Land. Everything that happened in NML had a huge impact on Misbegotten. Michael was civil, helpful, and accomadating (for a wraith). He did not resist, in fact he was imprisoned. He helped Sheppard disable the hive, helped Sheppard, Mckay, and Ronon get off the hive, and was instrumental in saving everybody on the Daedalus (you know, including Sheppard). He honored his end of the deal. It was those from Atlantis who did not honor their part of the deal. I fail to see how these situations are not similar or can be seen in similar lights. It seems like there is no internal plot consistency.


The Wraith in this ep doesn't know about Atlantis/Earth - galaxy full of humans - because he has been inprisioned for years, while Micheal on the other hand did. Even if his little wraithy buddies recognize the name "John Sheppard" or his description of the Atlantis team uniforms and they go to Atlantis to check it out...danger, danger... no, wait... cloaking devise. John and freinds would only be seen as "Survivors of Atlantis", since they wouldn't be able to see the city and it's reasonable for the Wraith assume if the city had been destroyed, some of the inhabitants would have gated off world first. Micheal on the other hand could squeal like a pig to let them know about the cloaking devise.
The wraith was present during all the conversations that Koyla had with Weir. He would know that there was an Atlantis. That's all he would need to know. And I'm sure that if the wraith ever discover that Atlantis is still actually in existence, the fact that the city is under cloak is not going to deter them. Why would it? If they know it's there, then they know it's there.

Sauron18
August 25th, 2006, 11:12 PM
Pardon me, where is it stated the Queens have names? ;)

Every Queen has been fannamed

Queen/Keeper Rising: Sally
Queen/The Hive: Sue
Queen/Allies/No Man's Land: Mina
I'm not talking about fan-made names, I don't even look at those, and we haven't heard any of the 2 Queen's names.


However, we do know they have a name, or at least their version of a name, because of something the WhiteHair Queen says in "The Hive":

"Of which queen do you speak?"

Now, unless she was expecting an "White-Hair-Yellow Boots" kind of answer, that's pretty much proof that they have some sort of name/identification

ILoveMe
August 25th, 2006, 11:19 PM
The wraith was present during all the conversations that Koyla had with Weir. He would know that there was an Atlantis. That's all he would need to know. And I'm sure that if the wraith ever discover that Atlantis is still actually in existence, the fact that the city is under cloak is not going to deter them. Why would it? If they know it's there, then they know it's there.

I will have to rewatch, but I could have sworn the Wraith wasn't in the room when Koyla blabbered on about Atlantis and how all Genii know it wasn't destroyed, the Wraith was brought into the room near the end of the discussion for dramatic effect. Therefore, the Wraith is still unawares of Atlantis still being intact or that John was from the city of the ancients. If they do get suspicous and go to the planet to check it out, those wraith would be just as unawares about the cloak as all the other wraith, they wouldn't infact know it's there. It would take a wraith like Micheal to give up such information. I am not saying I approve of the way they treated him or anything, i'm just sayin. :)

leighanners
August 25th, 2006, 11:23 PM
I too think that they have actualy Wraith names, not just the ones John decides to give them (which I personally love because it shows his character and sense of humor.) And this is just my opinion, but from what I gathered with Steve (?-I think that was the one, could be wrong, it's been a while since I've seen those eps.) is that they think humans aren't "worthy" for lack of a better word to know them. Or something along those lines.

Kliggins
August 25th, 2006, 11:31 PM
Why do they keep showing the "Get in the Gate" commercials? SG-1 got canceled! The winner won't be able to be in both shows! False advertising! Whoever wins should sue. That will serve them right



The winner of the Get in the Gate contest is usually in the final episode for the season so this year's winner will be in both shows. :)

Really nice episode. Give the make up department an A+ for Joe's aging appearance. Robert Davi is a fantastic bad guy and Chris was great too.

Fatewarns
August 25th, 2006, 11:31 PM
I have just become refrighten by the wraith, very good episode except for lack of screen time for Teyla and old Sheppard fighting two young soldiers unarmed.

Xanderic
August 25th, 2006, 11:37 PM
Ken Cuperus is the most awesome writer ever. My view on the episode totally changed. I thought the episode would suck. I was totally totally wrong. It was awesome and mindblowing

Miyth
August 25th, 2006, 11:37 PM
I just finished watching Common Ground, and I loved it. I love taking deeper looks at "bad guys", and stuff on shows and really any kind of story. Loved the Wraith, though I was kinda disappointed that Sheppard didn't name him ;) .

Over all I thought this was a 10 out of 10, and gave a lot to the show.

ILoveMe
August 25th, 2006, 11:43 PM
The winner of the Get in the Gate contest is usually in the final episode for the season so this year's winner will be in both shows. :)

Really nice episode. Give the make up department an A+ for Joe's aging appearance. Robert Davi is a fantastic bad guy and Chris was great too.

Oh.... I knew that.... I was just testing you. :mckayanime01: ;)

The make-up on Shep's final old age stage was terrific. I hope they win some kind of award.

Fatewarns
August 25th, 2006, 11:45 PM
what I found really interesting was the wraith always believe that sheppard wouldn't keep the deal

Adrius
August 25th, 2006, 11:49 PM
Also, that really irked me was Sheppard. He was a deceprid old man who could barely breath and stand on his own. Oh, but he managed to subdue two young guards with ease........
Skills outweighs strength anytime. I remember this episode of Cops I watched one time. This young strong dude tried to rob this old man at knife point... old man whooped his ass. He was an ex-boxer from the 40s or 50s I think.:p

EDIT: Hehe.. Ronon picked up a bit of slang and learned how to say "pissed".

Dunno if he's said it before but this time I noticed :p

AutumnDream
August 26th, 2006, 01:45 AM
Yay! First decent episode of the season! Did Martin write it? I can tell it wasn't one of the other regulars because it didn't suck.

...I miss Laden's cool facial hair.


Because that would be cruel? What human would want to be fed upon repeatedly? And it could have the same effects like the sarcophagus maybe? After prolonged use, it stops having an affect?

Didn't notice in this episode, but I did noticed Teyla was a bit booby in Sateda as well.

Man. Is what they say about sci-fi fans being afraid of girls true? An attractive woman wears a top that's cut anywhere below the collarbone and everyone freaks. :rolleyes:

Ouroboros
August 26th, 2006, 03:03 AM
Ken Cuperus is the man. This first episode of his is probably the best one of the season and totally blows away the sub average efforts of some of the long time established writers. Let's get more fresh new blood like this guy and Gero on the team and we might just save this thing from what the good ol' boys there seem to want to turn it into.

It was so nice to see an episode end with the guy helping the Atlantis team not getting bent over and ..... well you get the idea. Good job on actually showing John Sheppard to be an honorable man I can relate to as opposed to a backstabbing sob I should delight in wishing misery on.

I liked the line from the Wraith about how he was expecting to get screwed in the end for his trouble to. Maybe he watches Stargate Atlantis?

We finally find out why people would bother to worship the Wraith to. It gets you a shot at immortality.

They also apprently give the gift of life to their "brothers" which is interesting because it suggests that the Wraith have close relationships of comradery with other non Wraith species aside from human worshippers. Are these "brothers" who lack Wraith immortality also humans or something else entirely.

Hmm, much we don't know indeed.

We also get more proof of the notion that Wraith are more or less humans that have to eat people due to biological necessity as opposed to ruthless beasts who can not be bargained with, reasoned with or related to.

Nice that this was preceeded by the SG-1 "genocide is never the answer" episode to. I wonder if they heard that in the Pegasus galaxy.

Let's hope the tides are turning here.

10/10.

expendable_crewman
August 26th, 2006, 03:23 AM
The wraith was present during all the conversations that Koyla had with Weir. He would know that there was an Atlantis.Actually, the Wraith comes in after discussions wind down. Nothing pertaining to Atlantis is discussed at that point. There is video to Atlantis, not from Atlantis.

The expedition has been hopping around the Pegasus since episode 2, season 2, so a Wraith hearing the names Weir and Sheppard shouldn't equal knowing Atlantis survived, as far as we've been shown, IMO.

What I think you're asking is why now, and not before. Why choose to let the Wraith go now?

Opinions abound on this topic. I'm not sure mine will sway you. To be honest, Michael never came across as all that civil to me, unless you'd think of the character Hanibal Lector and suppose his fine dining habits, formal dress, and fondness for classical music were evidence enough of his civility. Michael betrayed his own in NML and that is, historically and in fiction, a sign that a character is not to be trusted. I didn't see any sign in the depiction of Michael outside the first thirty minutes of Michael that would indicate he should be let go. Maybe that was a writing error or poor characterization but I chose to go where the writing was taking me.

With Common Ground , we again have a Wraith we could have killed loose and able to kill humans for food. I have a problem with that. However, the writing this time said, "Don't judge so quickly. There's more here. Wait and see." I was able, therefore, to enjoy the resolution. If the writers had clipped Michael's "my consciousness is more important than others' right to live" speech in Misbegotten and maybe if they'd had someone else suggest deploying the gas to the hive ship in NML, then ... yeah ... I might have felt differently about Michael the Wraith.

Regarding Weir, she yelled, "Stop!" She wasn't hand-wringing. She told the guy who was torturing her colleague and her friend to stop. This was feeding # 1 and it was the "demo" feeding to help her decide to give over Ladon.

In her place, Sheppard would have yelled the same thing.

Feedings # 2 and # 3 went on with no utterances or orders, at least from her. Ronon made some noise during the last feeding.

IMO, she did an excellent job.

McKayRocks!
August 26th, 2006, 03:47 AM
Well I thoroughly enjoyed this episode! :) :) :) I was looking forward to it so much that I was afraid it would not live up to my very high expectations of it but luckily it did! :cool: Must admit to have discussed it to death on another thread :rolleyes: so no real surprises for me as to how the ep panned out but I did like the surprising development with the wraith. As a whumper I wished there was a little more fall out from the feedings (at the end I mean when he was all better again!) but I understand that this just doesn't happen in the eps so I hope that the fic writers out there are busily writing a tag!!!! :) ;)
I really did think it was extremely well written and have to say Joe Flanigan was a tour de force in this ep and should be highly praised for his acting! So much was conveyed with his eyes - the terror of what was about to happen to him - it was truly magnificent. :cool: :) ;)

Hope the ratings reflect how good this ep was!

Mx

Willow'sCat
August 26th, 2006, 03:53 AM
Gimme a break, you're in the season 3 DISCUSSION FORUM, WHY WOULDN'T THERE BE SPOILERS?? Shouldn't have to use them period.
This was originally posted in the general season 3 area of the forum not in the episode thread if you bothered to actually read my post you would have picked up on that, :rolleyes: not my fault The Mod who merged that thread with this one didn't delete my post before hand... I have since deleted my post as it is no longer relevant. ;) But thanks for being so nice about it. :mckay: :rolleyes:

Chris Hyerdahl was great as the WraithHe was wonderful, it is tough to make a Wraith likable and he sort of managed it, well he is still Wraith.

Good episode, lots to love.

Joe did a great job. Weir was good, I think she was right in her decision making, one man even John is not worth the alliance. I hope this makes the alliance stronger. :S

Ronon is annoying me, I understand he is kind of a warrior, and I wouldn't want him turning into Carson, but enough of the he-man reactions I am sure Jason is quite capable of handling more dialogue in his scenes.

McKay, I am not sure of I don't like using him as a joke, and that happens far too much these days, did he have to shoot the mouse? Did Carson have to 'call him' out... at least Teyla humoured him. I did love the exchange with Sheppard and McKay at the end :D oh and I loved the ending full stop.

I think we will see this Wraith again and it will be very interesting.

I don't really give scores... but it is so far my favourite episode of season 3.

EDIT: I forgot about Chuck! Great to see Chuck getting a few more lines... now all he needs is a name. :)

Arlessiar
August 26th, 2006, 04:56 AM
Yup, I liked this ep! :)


McKay, I am not sure of I don't like using him as a joke, and that happens far too much these days, did he have to shoot the mouse? Did Carson have to 'call him' out... at least Teyla humoured him. I doubt I could agree more with what you said! Another "let's laugh about Rodney" scene... *sigh*
I really didn't laugh when he was startled and shot the mouse. Why do TPTB assume that after so many years on AR1 Rodney is still not able to be a bit more careful with his weapons? Yes, he was startled, and personally I might have reacted similar. But I think he's enough experience now not to react like a rookie. I just didn't like that it was just used as another comic scene in the ep. Will they ever take the character of Rodney a bit more serious again?
And when he told the others about the mouse? Well, at least he didn't lie and say that it was a big Genii he saw who managed to run away. No, he said the (embarassing) truth. I cringed a bit then, because it felt so awkward. Poor guy.

And judging from what he said when they walk away Rodney also regretted that he shot the mouse.

The scene with the marines? Well, I smiled at that, thought it was sooo Rodney - and it was really well done, I mean, he said nothing wrong, did he? At least Teyla noticed that!

I wondered that he (and Carson) was in the strike team at all, although I surely didn't mind seeing him. Yeah I know, they belong to the main cast, so that's why they went along with the marines, but it's not very realistic.

But didn't Rodney fly the PJ just great? Calm and collected and hopefully in a straight line! :D
But although I loved it to see him flying the jumper, again, why was it him who did that on a (military) rescue mission? Where's Lorne, or any other military commander? Did Ronon lead the marines?

EDIT: I forgot about Chuck! Great to see Chuck getting a few more lines... now all he needs is a name. :) Chuck was great! I was happy to see him, and when he joined Weir on the balcony I so hoped she'd address him with his name. But no. :(


- Teyla's clothes? Well, Rachel is a beautiful woman, and I don't mind that kind of clothing in general. But I wish they'd give her more decent clothes on the show, at least when she's geared up and "on duty". I think, in private Teyla can wear whatever she wants, but it doesn't fit in the "mission moments".
I think it's a poor way of using this great character to attract male viewers.

- Ronon: He called Sheppard his friend! I liked that! :) Apart from that he's acting pretty one-dimensional. Still. Always easily enraged and trigger-happy.
But I think it's funny that he uses more and more Earth terms. "Pissed..." :D

- Did I get that right, they all wear subcutaneous transmitters? Interesting!

- The story itself was good, had the "Enemy mine" feeling. It was good to see that Wraith can do more than just hiss and feed. That they can give life back didn't really irk me, although I think it should as it comes across as a cheap plot device, but somehow I don't mind so much. It seems they rarely ever do it (why should they), so it doesn't change so much.
I'm a whump fan, so I enjoyed these bits in this episode. But it was nearly a bit too much, seeing Sheppard getting fed upon - that was excruciating, it was as if I could feel it myself and I was just watching! Joe Flangian did a fantastic job in these scenes, he made me feel Sheppard's pain.

- Carson - reserves a seat in the PJ for a member of his medical team for the rescue mission, and in the end it's him who goes off-world with the team - I like that! :D

- Yay for this being another Genii ep. I think they are great adversaries. I like the character of Ladon (sp?) a lot. And Kolya is a great bad guy, he makes me shiver! More than the Wraith, by the way, he's feels far more dangerous being so calm and talking so polite when he can in fact be very, very cruel!

- Being German, here's a tiny nitpick: The German soldier who appeared a few times in this ep had the flag patch on his uniform turned upside down through the whole episode. It's black-red-gold (yellow), not the other way round.

Bye, A.

Anubis-
August 26th, 2006, 04:59 AM
Was great episode, sad thing was those black uniform, they should stop using it.

Sparky13
August 26th, 2006, 05:13 AM
Sorry if someone else already said this...but I don't have the patience to read everything.

Anyway, a new equation:

Rodney + gun of any sort = hilarious

Remember, though, it's all fun and games until somebody loses an eye.

So:

Rodney + gun = hilarious - eye = :(

Also, I loved this episode and really appreciated that Ronon was the happening freaker-outer of the moment, considering what's gone down with him this season. Frankly, I would expect nothing less from him. He was sort of the anger spokesperson, which kept all of that within dramatic boundaries, since you can't have an episode this tense with *everyone* in fever-pitch mode. They would just feed off each other (so to speak) and run around chewing the scenery.

So, nice tight script, good directing and, finally (FINALLY) something to give the Wraith three dimensions! Something new! Unexpected! It's these surprises that help keep my interest up, especially now, when the Replicator-type guys have made an entrance and we know that they'll be making trouble of some sort in the future. The idea that the Wraith (or, at least, *a* Wraith) can be an ally--or perhaps even a friend--is astonishing and full of possibilities. Love it!

Sparky
PS: I don't ship anyone. Sparky has been my nickname for many years. M'kay?

AGateFan
August 26th, 2006, 05:17 AM
Was great episode, sad thing was those black uniform, they should stop using it.
I agree, unless they are doing something covert they should stick with the normal uniforms.

Melyanna
August 26th, 2006, 05:22 AM
Awesome, awesome episode. This writer can stay.

The ending came as no surprise to me or anyone in the room with me, for some reason, but it was something I had wondered about in the past, so it was nice to turn out to be right about that. At any rate, the whole restoration of life deal was something that could have been really, really cheesy, but Joe Flanigan and Christopher Heyerdahl managed to pull it off beautifully.

Speaking of Christopher Heyerdahl, I'm really amazed. I didn't think they'd be able to top Connor Trinneer's performance when it came to sympathetic Wraith, but Heyerdahl's managed it. He and Flanigan really played off each other well – I loved that they still didn't really trust each other in the end, and I kind of wonder if all bets really will be off if they see each other again.

Of course, there are a few lines in the episode that make me wonder if we'll be getting payoff for them at some point. The line that John is more like the Wraith than he realizes is one, of course, and the other is John's remark about prisons. We've seen him as a prisoner on the show before, but not for long periods of time. I wonder, was he ever a prisoner of war on Earth?

The other thing that really, really impressed me was Weir. There was a perfect balance in this episode. Elizabeth was obviously upset, but she also showed her resolve and refused to back down, even when it was clear that she wanted to trade Ladon (Ladin? I can't seem to decide how that's spelled this morning) for John. And as usual, Torri Higginson turned in a great performance. I know she talked in an interview about this episode being a little awkward for her, but I never would have guessed. She really did strike the perfect balance for her character in this one – worried about her friend, who recently risked a lot for her, but also having to stand strong if only to keep her subordinates in line.

And I liked that Ronon really seems to have a lot of respect for her, as she was able to rein him in. I had wondered what might happen if Sheppard weren't around to keep tabs on his puppy, so it was nice to see that Elizabeth can use him as effectively as John does.

All in all, great episode. My only complaint is that the ending was a bit rushed, so I give it four and a half out of five.

TheCaptain
August 26th, 2006, 05:24 AM
I love the Genii, and thought that this ep was a great way to show the development of their geopolitics as well as bring back a fantastic character in Commander Acastus Kolya. It was also full of revelations about the Wraith as a species, and showed that Sheppard was willing to put some of his somewhat-deserved prejudices aside in the case of the one Wraith that was actually HELPING him, instead of trying to simply feed on him, and manage to get to Earth :p

There were moments in that episode where I thought one of the 'odd-couple' would turn on the other, and there were moments enough for a little bit of back-stabbing, but neither one did that and I was glad for it, as it made a really interesting dynamic between the two characters that was great for this show. Honestly, I'm not so sure we should see this Wraith again, it would be a shame IMO if they had to meet again, and John ended up killing the guy ;)

Kolya's still bouncin around out there, somewhere... though it doesn't seem to be a good move to join up with him; most of his underlings meet a pretty grisly fate after a while heheh :)

In all, one of the best episodes so far of this series in my view, up there with some of the classics. It had everything I was hoping for in this episode and more... I wasn't disappointed! :D

Capt

Southern Red
August 26th, 2006, 05:45 AM
An all around great episode. The writing, acting and directing were superb. Kudos to everyone, especially Joe Flanigan and Chris Heyerdahl. Those two have amazing screen chemistry.

Loved the homage to Enemy Mine. And we learned something new about the Wraith. Now let's use it.

Loved Weir in this and how even from a distance she let John make the decision as military leader on how to handle the situation. That just shows again how they lead Atlantis as a team. Loved the way he was still giving directions to her with just his eyes and head. Fabulous understanding and trust.

Loved the continuity in this, from Ronon calling John his friend to John's apparently having dealt with his abandonment issues because he never once doubted his team would rescue him to filling in new information on the Genii.

Love Kolya. What a bad guy. Robert Davi scares me.

Loved Rodney. Please don't ever make him not funny. You look younger than before. McKay, you are a darling when confused.

Loved the make up on Sheppard. He was still hot almost up to the last. And along those same lines, loved the black outfits. And the leather.

This season is shaping up to be almost better than S1.

vaberella
August 26th, 2006, 05:45 AM
8.5/10
Well what did I think....I'll get to that.

First I was a bit PO'd I lost a battle with my mum, darn you to a cold hell SoapNet----she's in love with soaps, and what happened yesterday on General Hospital took precedent over SGA. I like hot men, so I can't blame her too much. But I wasn't able to give a quick review to the ep as I wanted to. Hopefully it will be okay for next week, unless Jason or Rick is once again shirtless---:D!! I mean really, hot men shirtless or John in need of depends and efferdent? Yeah, that's right...hot men shirtless!

Anyway back on topic...I've also been relegated to page 7 (I'll save my spot next time), shame of all shames..but at least I'm contributing..now this is the normal pace of reviews, I was a bit worried when I saw the lack of reviews for TRW, not that I can blame you guys. :D Upwards and onwards.

So how did I find this ep, not necessarily back story, for the 10th time in another ep I hear John say, 'We don't leave anyone behind,'; this is getting as bad as the ATA gene pyrotechnics from S1 and parts of S2---and not as good or entertaining as Teyla's, 'They are Wraith!'---she uses that as an explective. Gotta give the girl props for that.

So was I impressed, not necessarily. Much as I used to think that Wolverine having a past would be a disappointment it wasn't, and I don't think that JOhn's backstory would do that to his character--What am I saying? Give it up, writers we're running in circles. But does any of that detract from the episode at all? No way. Unlike my disappointment with TRW---cause I got nothing, I was pleasantly surprised by what I did get out of this episode. I knew Common Ground would be great, although I was expecting more on Kolya (I'll expand on this later) I did get an interesting and worthwhile perspective on the Wraith, I got to see John super old and still kick ass, I got fantastic and I mean shockingly fantastic decision making by Weir...similar almost to how I felt about her in Critical Mass--but far better. I liked everyone's usage...long live McShep love. I was a bit disappointed by the lack of not only Teyla's usage, but surprised by Ronon's usage that was cool. I'm very happy with developing of Ronon/John relationship, I knew there was something developing since Conversion, so touching on that is nice in this episode. Although I have to say I'm a bit fed up with Ronon like a savage dog.

Ronon: The man is turned into a relentless pup by both Teyla and John...this is not an insult to him. But it's aggravating, because I feel they backpedal on his character when they shouldn't. They said a bit about his character, I know he's marine like, and I guess this is a decent representation, but we're given more to himn in eps like Trinity and Inferno, and of course Misbegotten. So that was a bit aggravating. Teyla, 'Ronon, sit!' / John, 'Ronon, It's a damn order!'/McKay, 'What?' It didn't take away from the episode, but it wasn't what I wanted to see, but I'm sure Sunday will have more for me, and grow from there. But I did like how he was feeling in this. How he saw John as a friend and how he cared. It was fantastic.

Teyla:Well I have to say this episode was a bit disconcerting for me. I was expecting much, of course that's not always what the writers want, and I know their playing with a similar wraith sequence for Teyla in future eps, so that could be the reason for her downgrade. I wasn't appreciative how we got more on Carson than Teyla who is a significant part of the team. At least we were given something, but I was hoping for more. Ah well, again this didn't detract from the episode, although I was hoping for more. Her life has been surrounded by wraith and we know a friend of hers is being tortured by Wraith, you'd expect a serious and a focused reaction, they gave us nothing, but they also gave her no lines. That was a sad lack of usage. Do this to me again TPTB and I'll have harsh words for you!!!

McKay:Yeah okay was this fantastic? Bloody hell yes!! Now before I was ever J/T---I was McShep, and still give props to my slash roots, so did I love this? Yes, once again. Great characterisation, I loved how McKay was showing his emotion and it was interesting to see how he had his heart on his sleeve, also I love that part when he tried to give authority to emulate John----it's an Ode to John. Nice touch. I loved that...but this is another reason we should have had more of Teyla--those three needed to bond, but 2 out of 3 ain't bad. And McKay was fantastic. It showed deep friendship, possibly more if you're a slasher, and it showed respect, admiration and devotion. Nice I loved it.

Weir: Can I say Finally?! Really now!! I mean there was a lot of nonesense eps for Weir before CM for me, and millions after CM. Finally an episode that shows her intelligence, her ingenuity, her presence of mind. This is what I have been talking about when it comes to smart writing. She doesn't have to be perfect, but she does her duty and she does it correctly. She is not stupid and she showed that, and finally she didn't come across like a belligerant child in need of a flogging like in Misbegotten and NML. She is a sensitive woman in a horrible situation and this is out of her league, but she does her duty and based on her experience..this is what I'm asking..this is what I've been begging for. I'm sure this characterization won't last, and she'll do something to piss me off again, but this is what I was talking about. She definitely earned an 10/10 in this position of leadership---it was a great display and I loved it! Again I'm sure in laer eps this won't be the case, but once a season they give Weir a little flag waving...most of the time she's crap. But I commend her in this ep. Well done!!

Carson:Hmmm...not sure how I feel about this. They sacrificed Teyla for more of Carson, which really added nothing more to the episode, except that he went on a mission. Now I understand why they would want to send their best doctor for Shep, but Carson does have some amazing doctors on his team---exceptional ones. I again have problems with all the heads out on missions. And Carson now uses a gun, knock upside he head and call me Violet when I see Zelenka geared up. Now this is the stuff coming out of left field. But whatever... Another little cringe worthy moment that far from took away from the episode as a total.

Kolya/Laden: Now they were rather disappointing. They did not give Kolya the usage and nemesis affect he had in The Brotherhood and The Eye/Storm. I mean he was a great villain, unfortunately his persona was used more as a plot subtext than really give it growth for future eps. I get the feeling he's going to just be a boring diversion when they want something to add in a scene, but not really significance, and that's disappointing to see.
Now as for Laden, I like this guy. And he's like a surprisingly attractive geek--not that any of the geeks are icky here. Okay now I'm moving away from the superficial. Again a poor usage of a possible cool character. I mean it helped work Weir's situation---which makes sense and flowed, I just felt there could have been more, but again just a useful plot device, whatever. I liked him in it, but I wanted more, much like Kolya.

Wraith: Alright now do I love this Wraith? Oh hell yes!! Long live the Wraith. Now this was a great Wraith ep, we learned a few things about them and respect to that---it was a realistic growth for them and it wasn't badly done. The affect flowed and it worked. I figured the WRaith can give back life, not hard to deduce since John comes back to normal, but it was cool to see that they can. It brings that whole dynamic of being a wraith to another level. I hate the way they make it out that the wraithism is a disease, it's more like it's an evolution..and it's great that they can give life and take it away. Nice affect. And I liked how John has become a 'brother' of sorts. That was nice. It worked and I like this wraith, he's almost as good food eating wraith in Condemned, but he was far better!! :D I also like that they have a level of honor and the intelligence is fantastic. This do have honor at times, of course you get a few louses...Sateda comes to mind. But some of them, such as Michael do have an honor system. I liked this team work and I hope it opens the mind of John. But what I found even more interesting---I wnat to known in future how this makes Teyla feel---she hated the WRaith and she definitely seemed the most affected by the fact that they can give life. So I wonder if they might expand on this. Anyway the wraith rocked and this was a great episode for them. This one needs a name---I like Thomas as suggested by a mate, but I prefer James--very honorable name.

John: What to say about John. I mean JF did a fantastic performance, as I mentioend there were places they could have expanded and spiced up, I was very tired of, 'We don't leave people behind'. I'd like to hear some stories of war. It was rather boring for backstory, cause there was none. But again better than TRW for character piece, because it had action and gave us extensive knowledge on other things and that even at roughly 70 John can still kick ass like he was 30.:D Not too mention it had better use of teamwork and going after a fellow member. That's cool. John was intelligent and even if he didn't like the wraith, he had to in effect trust the Wraith...this was great to see that John is more than military. Like even with his miltary training he did have an open mind and his honor was more prevalent than his military sense in that he didn't backstab the wraith. Further more, this is another reason I like John, he did this in Condemned, and he did it in Inferno, once again in Irresistable---no matter what he doesn't betray Atlantis. He made it a point to protect it...and he did it but stil keeping his word. Loving that..unlike some people ie. Progeny who can't keep their mouth shut!! So excellent presentation by JF and I really loved John in this ep.

Now in conclusion I really liked this ep, despite several cringes and eye rolling, it was worth it, and great. I do think that I maybe a 12 year old boy in a 26 year old female body---since I gave high scores to the action stories. But this was great. It could have gotten better by adding more Teyla, reworking Ronon, and establishing a proper consistent grounding for Kolya and Laden. But again I liked it,e ven though. Just lost some points. This is an ep I can see again and again. Great character ep, I hope to see one with his backstory...so this doesn't take you off the hook TPTB.


8.5/10


:sheppardanime23:http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e308/vaberella/teylaanime32.gif:mckayanime09:
Apparently Ms. Emmagen loves being in a McShep love jones! Respect!!

siXbrownSnakes2
August 26th, 2006, 05:46 AM
Great episode!

Davi did a great job with Kolya yet again. Ronan annoyed me a little bit but whatever. I understood their position. Great plot, was very interesting. Good acting, great episode all around.

CalmStorm
August 26th, 2006, 05:51 AM
The wraith are getting less and less evil it seems. This was a great week for the gates, two amazing episodes. Laden looked weird without his gotee.


I wonder what other secrets the wraith have in store.

Evil is relative. I can't say that they are becoming less evil, only more complicated :)

Great episode!!!!!

The entire team was involved..all of them had good screen time. Better than that though...none of it was wasted screen time. They all had a part that was valid and not just filler. The characters are what keep people watching and I'm gald that we had such a complete episode.

To me, the team made all the right decisions. Weir's refusal to bow to Koyla, knowing the pain that it was causing Sheppard, her team, and herself. As tempting as it might have been, to me, no good would have come from the trade. Koyla would likely not release Sheppard, would kill Laden, and assume leadership of the Genii...once again making the entire Genii population an enemy instead of just these little factions. It would have shown Koyla that he could continue his ways and possibly try this stunt again if he were successful once.

I loved that Sheppard let the wraith go...both upholding their deal. I love that we learned much more about the wraith.

I was very impressed with this episode, the utilization of all the characters without them being just filler for screen time, the difficult decisions made and just the general flow of the episode. I was glued to the tv the entire time and enjoyed the entire show. Bravo!! More like this please!!

Rating: 10/10

GateLadyM
August 26th, 2006, 06:34 AM
Have a minute to give my thoughts and found this excellent. Good interaction with Weir and Ladon, Kolya/Sheppard/Weir (even via an antique looking TV camera - nice touch). McKay trying to lead and shooting a mouse was hysterical.

I'm going to complain about Teyla as well. She is a leader, intelligent and brave, so why do TPTB keep going the sex kitten route with her? We don't need to see her boobies pushing up out of her shirt, that only takes away from the character. You want us to take her seriously? Then give her interesting WORDS so we watch her face and can see the intelligence and caring there. Rachel Luttrell doesn't need this shoddy treatment.

That's my only complaint, except Shep would never have taken out those two guards as a dying geezer. That could have been done different.

Apparently we had a new writer - welcome aboard! This episode, along with Sateda, are my favs of the season so far. :)

Gate Geek
August 26th, 2006, 06:40 AM
WOW!!! After watching it twice and sleeping on it, I come back this moring and find myself still emotionally exhausted from this episode!

I was very excited to view this ep. Anything Sheppard centric is always high on my list especially when it involves Shep whump. But I was really not prepared for the emotional intensity that unfolded in the 43 minutes of this episode. I was morbidly fixated during the feeding. I couldn't turn away although I really wanted to. OMG! The tears on Shep's face after the second feeding? I nearly died right then and there! I had a lump in my throat, my stomach drop out and tears on my face. This is supposed to be just a TV show?

The interaction between Sheppard and the wraith was phenomenal and not something I quite expected. I knew they would work together to escape, but the levels of conversation between these two throughout the episode offered insight into Sheppard as well as the wraith in geneneral.

Continuity of the story from THe Storm/The Eye/Brotherhood was done in a very nice and subtle way. Those that watched those eps, could easily pick out those references (Shep on the radio at the end yelling Koyla, for example), yet those that did not see these episodes did not miss a beat or had to play catch up.

The actions scenes were well choreographed and intense. It was good to see that even though Shep got old, he could still kick some Arse and in a dangerous way.

I also found myself with a greater appreciation for Weir for standing her gorund and saying no to Koyla even though Shep paid the price each time. Its good to see she won't cave in even though she may want to.

After weeks of speculation upon what could happen, I was surprised and happy to see most of them were true and even more surprisingly, in the order we whumpers had thought them to occur! Yet, this episode offered a few nice and unexpecting twists to keep me gripped to the TV set.

The emotional intensity from Sheppard (WAY TO GO JOE!!!!) and his team carried this episode from beginnig to end. I went in watching this ep to squee over Sheppy whump, an still can't find myself to do so. wonder if I actually ever will.

While there is so much more to say, I just can't wrap my mind on all of it yet. I'm in shock. I praise the ptb for going with this idea and having the balls to show such emotional angst and dare I say, torture, on TV. THis ep was real, emotionally gripping and one of the best ever watched.

This ep is certainly a 10/10.

Michelle05
August 26th, 2006, 07:10 AM
Wow, such a suspenseful episode. I was glued to the set like I haven't been for either Stargate for a long time. Sheppard was great and Joe F and Christopher H did wonderful jobs.

But am I the only one who was really angry at Weir for not being more creative in her negotiations, to buy Sheppard time? All the dubious moral things she's done, and she decides to stand up for principle when Sheppard is having his life sucked away?

I thought she could have agreed to the exchange just to buy time and then worked on a plan to get Sheppard back at the exchange point without giving up the Genii dude. Making plans for the exachange would have given Atlantis intel on where Kolya's base was too. Granted things turned out better the way they went, but Weir couldn't have known that.

I was so hoping the Wraith could give John his life back and so relieved when he did, even knowing he had to be fixed somehow by the end of the ep.

I wonder if it was only John's history with the Iratus bug and Wraith dna that made it possible to do that...

CalmStorm
August 26th, 2006, 07:28 AM
But am I the only one who was really angry at Weir for not being more creative in her negotiations, to buy Sheppard time? All the dubious moral things she's done, and she decides to stand up for principle when Sheppard is having his life sucked away?

I thought she could have agreed to the exchange just to buy time and then worked on a plan to get Sheppard back at the exchange point without giving up the Genii dude. Making plans for the exachange would have given Atlantis intel on where Kolya's base was too. Granted things turned out better the way they went, but Weir couldn't have known that.

I thought Weir was excellent in this episode and liked the way she handled the situation from start to finish. I don't think it would have been a good idea to say that she would hand over Laden with no intention of actually handing him over. It would have been a bluff that she would have been called on, and then she herself would lose credibility.

As far as an exchange and locating their base based on that exchange, I do not see that as a possibility. They more than likely would have had Laden gated to another planet and possibly gated to several oter planets to throw the team off the trail, and never actually gate him to where Shep and Koyla were. We saw how resourceful Laden was is his little coup, one can only wonder how much more resourceful Koyla would be at deception and covering his trail.

ToasterOnFire
August 26th, 2006, 07:32 AM
Thoughts on Common Ground, AKA "The Shepisode" :D

- I was under the impression that this ep would feature some backstory on Shep, but to no avail. Now rumor has it that has been moved back. Man, feels like a repeat of Epiphany. :S

- The wraith was a fascinating character, well acted and developed. I too am interested in the ability to give back life and the concepts of "Brothers" and worshippers. I just wish they would have developed this sooner. Like FP said, I'm not sure that TPTB even know where they're going with the wraith and that translates to shaky writing.

- So nice to see an ep where the movement of the plot doesn't require the team to make stupid decisions. Glad to see that they got into trouble because they were outwitted or other external circumstances, not because they thought an obviously dumb idea would be a great one.

- I love me some Genii. Seriously, they are the most interesting enemies that Atlantis has faced. Ladon and Koyla are fascinating characters and well acted. Koyla unfortunately was not featured much in this ep (and I thought he was..wimpier? in this ep), but I was thrilled to see Ladon and enjoyed all his interactions, especially with Weir. (ship? Hmmm....)

- I think Weir did a great job with the scenario she had to work with. Interesting that she chose to sacrifice Shep for the diplomatic ideal of not dealing with terrorists/blackmail. Still, a bit disappointed that we don't see any of her aftermath from TRW.

- I know Ronon is the angry "wild card" on the team and I enjoyed his anguished reaction to seeing the wraith feed, but does his anger have to be so unchecked? I thought his aggression toward Ladon was OTT - I kept on expecting one of the team to say "Down, boy". Sooner or later his words or actions are going to screw up a meeting with an offworlder...

- Ummm...was Teyla even in this ep? I know she was, but man, she has been reduced to almost nothing this season. Even Ronon has had more screentime than her. Surely Teyla as the Athosian leader has had to deal with trust and the possibility of betrayal, and writing in a sentence or two about this with Weir would not have been that difficult. (Oh, and I have no qualms with cleavage for the sake of cleavage either. It's not like Teyla's out hitting on OCs left and right (that's Shep's job :D) )

-Count me in as those not impressed with Rodney's latest fumbling with a gun. Come on writers, make up your mind - is he competent or not? I tire of using him in this way for a cheap laugh. Though I did enjoy his "Shep-like" comments to the departing military, and his macho thumbs up to Weir! HA! :D


Outside of those minor irks, I thought overall it was a solid ep with a fast-paced plot, plenty of action, and all from a new writer to boot! I look forward to seeing more from him. :)

Linzi
August 26th, 2006, 07:41 AM
I'm speechless after watching Common Ground.
For me, it was a highly anticipated episode, the one I was most looking forward to, and I'd over analysed the possible plot line to death. When I'd built it up to such a huge episode in my head, it would have been so easy to be incredibly disapointed here. Fortunately - I wasn't.
I've had to watch it three times to take it all in!
Suffice it to say, I absolutely loved this episode.
Firstly, Joe Flanigan did such a fantastic job here. I saw the pain in his eyes, the fear, and the bravery every time Sheppard was fed on. Whilst watching those feedings, I felt dreadful. It really emotionally affected me, and it was down to Joe's performance here that I did feel so upset. I actually had tears in my eyes for the second time in a season 3 SGA episode. But in Sateda, I welled up with tears at a powerful scene of friendship, here it was me being shocked, outraged and upset for Sheppard at his treatment by Kolya. Congratulations to JF for such a compelling performance. He was wonderful, and I love Sheppard now even more than I did before...is that actually possible?
Chris H. was brilliant. I liked his Wraith. I pitied him, and understood him, and wasn't repulsed by him. I understand a little more about the Wraith today. I loved that I learned more about them. The Wraith here had a sense of humour! He chuckled, and was compassionate. He didn't have to restore Sheppard's life, but he did. Sheppard didn't have to let him go at the end, but he did. If they meet again, I wonder what will happen? I'd really lilke to find out. I really want to see that Wraith again.
I loved Rodney here. His concern for Sheppard. His anger at Kolya. I laughed at the mouse bit. So Rodney, and so sweet! Hell, I'd do the the same! I particularly loved his rousing little speech to the Marine's! I just loved that! Good old McKay!
I loved Ronon's fierce loyalty to Sheppard. The team needed his aggression and single-mindedness, and Weir certainly seemed grateful for his support!
Weir was good here. She acted as a professional here, despite her revulsion at Kolya and the pain of possibly losing her friend.
Kolya. At last, evil Kolya is back! I'm delighted TPTB have gone in this direction. The Brotherhood was a huge disappointment for me as far as Kolya is concerned, but here everything was perfect. Kolya was vile, ruthless, evil and single-minded. Robert Davi did a great job. I was scared here!
Ladon was fantastic too. Very well played, and well written too.
That brings me on to the writing. Fantastic. I loved the 'darker' tone of this episode. I never, in my wildest dreams, thought I'd see Sheppard tortured in front of his team. That was brutal, and gritty and adult, and just what was missing in Season 2. Ken Cuperus did a wonderful job here. This episode rates as my favourite this year, and will be one of my favourite SGA episodes to date. Wonderful. I look forward to more of Ken's wonderful work!
I give this episode 10/10. I'd have liked a longer, less rushed ending, but I understand that time was short, so I can forgive that. Besides, I have a feeling this episode is going to spawn some of the most wonderful fanfic.
Congratulations to everyone on the SGA team here. I was really stunned to see such a fantastic episode. Thank you all.

Verity5
August 26th, 2006, 07:42 AM
About the acting in this episode.
Robert Davi's performance was brilliant, nuanced, everything it should have been. Kolya's expression when the wraith is feeding on Sheppard is just amazing. The act is wrong, over the line, the character knows this and yet his ambition pushes him to continue. I also think that the interaction with Ladon is just spot on.

All of the actors did an amazing job. Ryan Robbins' Ladon's interactions with both the Atlanteans and Kolya were very good.

And, is it just me, but at one point the "aged" Sheppard looked much like Harrison Ford looks now. I can really see Mr. Flanigan as Indiana Jones.
His performances remain wonderfully consistent, even when dealing with some poorly written and blatantly obvious dialogue as exemplified in Seteda.
He really is better than some of the material he has been given to work with.

My biggest disappointment was my favorite McKay. The mouse thing was just unnecessary, and Beckett "calling him" on his speech to the troops was unnecessary and embarrassing. McKay is the Cheif Science Officer, the leader of the group most responsible for the expedition to Atlantis. The last time he actually acted like a real leader, with respect, was in the Hot Zone or possibly Brotherhood.

The decision to make him the laughingstock of the Pegasus Galaxy and have obligatory clown scenes in every episode has been one of the biggest weaknesses of the series. McKay's character originally had so much humor because he always said the most outrageous things, not for shock value, but because he always told the truth as he saw it. It was a breath of fresh air on SG1 when he challenged St. Sam, when he accused Anubis of being a drama queen, and on SGA when he tells off Kolya, who has all the guns.

Someone with McKay's "brains" should be able to learn from his mistakes, not be able to hit SuperWraith with every shot, then later become hysterical everytime he has a firearm in hand. Why would Sheppard want someone so incompetent on his team? The team's purpose is exploration, first contact, not to have a member that can be the butt of all the jokes (some of which have become increasingly mean spirited).

That humor is needed in a drama is a valid point. That it should be incidental and not contrived is what should be striven for. Also, where is it written that only one character should provide the humor? Do the others have no wit?

I also wonder about the burning desire for backstories. What makes these characters interesting is how they act and interact. Too much backstory can be an unnecessary burden in character development (assuming that these characters will be allowed to grow and learn).

Sorry about going on so, but apparently I needed to vent.

I still think this was the best episode of this season, so far.

V5

creed462
August 26th, 2006, 07:46 AM
Very good ep.

Thermonuclearboy
August 26th, 2006, 07:47 AM
So did this Wraith get a fanname yet? If not, I move we call him "Clint." Because of his awesome voice, and because he is sort of a "Wraith With No Name."

:)

Very good episode, but once Sheppard started getting fed upon multiple times, I immediately knew they were gonna set it up that a Wraith can give back life that it takes. It also made me realize just what the Wraith was doing during his rather brutal attack on the two Genii soldiers: he was supercharging himself so he had enough extra energy to heal Sheppard.

Regarding Wraith Names: wasn't it established that they are at least partly telepathic with one another? If that's the case, they may not actually have names. At least, SPOKEN names. Surely they have ways to tell individuals apart, but maybe they just don't need to express it verbally.

stubadingdong
August 26th, 2006, 08:02 AM
Chris H. was brilliant. I liked his Wraith. I pitied him, and understood him, and wasn't repulsed by him. I understand a little more about the Wraith today. I loved that I learned more about them. The Wraith here had a sense of humour! He chuckled, and was compassionate. He didn't have to restore Sheppard's life, but he did. Sheppard didn't have to let him go at the end, but he did. If they meet again, I wonder what will happen? I'd really lilke to find out. I really want to see that Wraith again.


I sure hope the A-Team doesn't fall for the whole one-Wraith-who-has-been-locked-up-for-years-and-out-of-the-loop-shows-compassion-so-there-must-be-some-good-Wraith-out-there logic. The wraith are still at the top of the food chain. They still, as a collective, view Humans as food.

I liked that there's more to the Wraith, as sentient beings it's about time we found this out. But they're still dangerous and aren't going to give a crap about the humans' plight. One individual does not an ally make.

However, if prisoner guy goes back to his hive and manages to convince his entire population that Sheppard and humans are really nice, good people and they stop feeding on humans, then I'll be the first to eat my words in some humble pie. :D

FallenAngelII
August 26th, 2006, 08:18 AM
I doubt very muchthe Gift of Life's something they'd use willy nilly. Because it would be ridiculous to be able to heal each other willy nilly.

And you obviously need to feed in abundance before restoring someone with the Gift of Life. Just listen to the name: Gift of Life. You're taking someone's life force and giving it to someone else. Otherwise, the Wraith could've given John the Gift of Life long before that fateful moment in the woods.

And he really didn't have to feed on both those soldiers. He took a risk by pinning them both down, risking one escaping. Or risking the guy he'd just whacked unconscious coming too and shooting him.

I myself found this to be a very intriguing and welcoming addition to what we know about Wraith. And as I've been saying all along, they philosophy too. All living things must eat.

And he seemed to understand the human viewpoint when he pointed out that while Sheppard was angry at being fed on, he was angry for not being able to finish him off.

The Wraith are smart and it's about time they showed it!

We've seen a few rare instances so far.

The Wraith Keeper in Rising was very intelligent, obviously. She didn't just spout the usual "We rule! Bow down!" nonsense villains spout. She philosophied that all living things must eat.

Then, we have the Wraith in Condemned, who even cut a deal with the planet and who had learned to enjoy "normal" food.

Next, we had Ellia, raised as a human. For all intents and purposes, she was a human being, only, she needed sustenance. Sadly, she had to die in the end.

Next up, there's Michael. No doubt a generic Wraith (though more intelligent than a lot of them have been shown to be) before we captured him, but we turned him into something more. Yet another hybrid, one who knows the human viewpoint.

And now we have Unknown Wraith who had a sense of humor, honor (which by the sounds of it, all of them do) and who has more personality than a lot of humans we've seen on the show (I mean, we see Chuck a lot, but we never see him do anything more than say generic "Bla bla activation" and stuff).

Yes, there are many things about the Wraith we do not know. They obviously have the Gift of Life. They have a strong sense of honor. I mean, just look at what the Wraith did:

He went along with John's deal. He was prepared to die because of it, prepared to wither away, content that he'd at least gotten to see the night sky again. The only reason why he fed on John was because he knew that if they were to be caught, neither would've been able to fight and thus, he took enough to fight himself but not enough to kill John.

Then, he took the risk of detection by actually stopping to feed twice to gain enough life force for the Gift of Life. He risked the guy he knocked out coming to. He risked the guy he wasn't feeding on at the moment (because it was obvious he could only feed on one guy at a time, not only because we've only seen one Wraith-sucker per Wraith) to break loose and he risked Kolya's men arriving and shooting him.

All to restore John to the way he was (or as Rodney put it: Looking younger than before!). A thing he had absolutely no obligation to do!

And he even said that he hoped he and John would never meet again. He obviously didn't say it out of fear of John killing him because the Wraith don't walk around alone, so he'd have backup.

He said it because he doesn't want to have to fight John, possibly kill him.

Wow, Atlantis is really picking up. The slow start had me worried, but now... "Progeny", "The Real World" and now "Common Ground". I can only say: Bravo.

doylefan22
August 26th, 2006, 08:23 AM
Superb episode. Great to see they fleshed out the Wraith to 3D characters and yet still did it without making him sympathetic or a good guy. The Wraith was still a Wraith but it did show they had some sense of honor and, yet again, that they will do anything to survive. It was interesting to see how he grew to respect Sheppard. He'd still likely eat him if he met him in the future but there was certainly respect for his resilience. Perhaps some envy or bitterness too - he seemed impressed that Sheppard would continue to believe that his friends would come for him. The other Wraith certainly hadn't done the same for him.

This writer should certainly be given more episodes to do in the future.

immhotep
August 26th, 2006, 08:36 AM
My god what a firestorm of awesome Tv we have bene having this week!
That episode was really good. The wraith are finally cool! they ahve personallity and morality, warped yet its there.
Weir with muscle and morals, the real world did wonders for her apparently.
The feeding process can be reversed! WOW
I think Ted is a cool name for the new wraith and really want to see him against, what a cool wraith! he my favourate to date :D!

10/10 this is the best wraith/enemy development episode so far..its already ones of my favourate of all time 10minutes after watching it... really well dont to the PTB!

the fifth man
August 26th, 2006, 08:48 AM
Really great SGA episode IMO. I'd give it a 8/10 for sure. I really think it was a good move for TPTB to show this side to the Wraith. They aren't all bad. It's time the team realized that.

Elinor
August 26th, 2006, 08:51 AM
What an excellent episode! Thoroughly enjoyed it...even though it was hard to watch at times because of what happened to Sheppard. How terrible to be fed on in stages!! I thought JF did a fantastic job here. All the emotion in the eyes, as that's really all you could see in the feeding and then gradually getting older. I liked the agitation he showed whilst pacing in the cell, to the slighter slower speech pattern and movement as he got progressively older. Really well done and not over the top.

Great to see Koyla back again and RD was as evil as ever. Also thought Chris H. was brilliant as the Wraith. He really played him different to the other Wraith and I liked that. I think we should call him Chuckles...er....'cos he did!! http://www.clicksmilies.com/s0105/lachen/laughing-smiley-005.gif

Well done to the writer Ken Cuperus. I'm really looking forward to the next one he pens!

Why's Ladon lost his beard? 'Spect he thinks it makes him look more 'leader-y'!! http://www.clicksmilies.com/s0105/grinser/grinning-smiley-023.gif

Funniest line? McKay - 'He looks younger than he did before' !!!! (or words to that effect).

S3 is turning out fantastic!!




And, is it just me, but at one point the "aged" Sheppard looked much like Harrison Ford looks now. I can really see Mr. Flanigan as Indiana Jones.


Not just you Verity! Over in the thunk thread, he has been named as 'Indiana Joe'!!

:)

Auralis
August 26th, 2006, 08:52 AM
Well, finaly again a SGA epsiode well worth watching. what a pleasant surprise after all the drivel lately.

SGalisa
August 26th, 2006, 09:07 AM
Koyla = Ming the Merciless of Atlantis. :p

poor Whumped Shep!! and more than twice, too!
first, the harpoon hooks - nice catch and fall, BTW :D

and then he turns all old. Wow. thought the Wraith might not keep his promise during that last feeding session on Shep.

But a curious question... when the Wraith mentioned that Shep is more like a Wraith during their initial conversations and in the end, told him about the rejuvination effect being reserved for "Brothers"
- was that a symbolic reference or literal?

kris
August 26th, 2006, 09:13 AM
Excellent episode. Had me on the edge of my seat the whole time. Loved it, will go on the favorites list. But didn't care for the "gift of life", "brothers", "repaid the debt" and reserved for this that and the other thing lines at the end. I thought they strayed right into cheesy territory to mention all those ideas at once. I expected the Wraith to then hand Sheppard his necklace to remember him by or plant one on his face. They are more than just words; there is a ton of meaning behind each one and one would've done the job just as well.

Anyway, this will stay in my memory as "Allies" more than "Common Ground". I enjoyed the interplay and dynamics between the two enemies, similar to countries that join forces for the time being to their mutual benefits but in future, who knows, they may be on opposite sides of the fence.

And, we all knew Shep could never stay old, since he is supposed to be the young and handsome lead guy so this gift of life came in pretty handy. ;)

Great episode. Sorry about the nitpick but it really stood to me as a bit much.
Looking like a good season. Too bad the wait it so long for second half. Not good.

Rootortoise
August 26th, 2006, 09:28 AM
EXCELLENT episode! 10/10! i thought everyone did a fantastic job on this episode, well done ken cuperus!!
i would say more but everyone has pretty much summed up what i liked about this episode...which is pretty much everything LOL the ending was a bit rushed but then i expected it wud be with only 43 minutes to tell a story like this...no scene was wasted and it didnt leave me disappointed at the end... this will certainly generate a lot of episode tags and i look forward to reading them!
loved shep, loved his team and weir, loved evil kolya, ladon and the wraith! just loved this episode...more like this please TPTB!

The Ori
August 26th, 2006, 09:33 AM
Great episode

The wraith are getting less and less evil it seems. This was a great week for the gates, two amazing episodes. Laden looked weird without his gotee.


I wonder what other secrets the wraith have in store.

I'm just getting the episode now and will be watching it in a few hours, but it's not been a greta week, they've cancelled SG-1

LoneStar1836
August 26th, 2006, 12:03 PM
Excellent episode. Not perfect but darn close. Thank you Ken Cuperus. :) Please write more.

Great character centric episode for Sheppard. JF’s performance was top notch. Shep was my favorite character in S1, but my enthusiasm for him waned in S2…a lot, but it seems to be on the upswing again this season. Heck we even had good character development from Weir…more than we got from last week’s so-called Weir centric episode.

The Genii have always been my favorite adversary on SGA. (Course I see that as a downfall in the writing that the more threatening and better written enemy in Pegasus was just a bunch of humans rather than the new enemy…imo.) I’ve never cared much for the Wraith as the big bad, though they’ve done a little more this season to pique my interest in the Wraith (specifically Michael). Kind of saw the ending coming there after the Wraith sucked the rest of the life out of Shep, but it’s not so much of a copout ending (as I was thinking when I first watched it) but rather a new little insight into the Wraith that adds more to their overall storyline. Now whether they utilize this little tidbit appropriately in the future is yet to be seen…. (I’m thinking about when they ditched the aspect, that I thought had promise, of the Wraith projecting themselves.)

This particular Wraith was interesting and props to Chris H. and his portrayal. I couldn’t stand Halling…practically had a death wish for that guy, but as a Wraith, I’m glad this actor gets the job done well.

Great episode. I enjoyed it and made sure to watch the second showing.

Klenotka
August 26th, 2006, 12:23 PM
OK, this one will be little longer so I am sorry for some grammar mistakes ;) English isn´t my native language.
So first, I liked this episode. I have to admit I didn´t look forward to it too much because of Sheppard. I like Shepp, especially in connection with Rodney but they almost killed his character in S2. But I liked him here. The chemistry and tension between him and the Wraith was great. And it was all nice dark. I like dark things.:D

What I liked:
Rodney-I loved him here. It looks like we have back the old good Rodney and I am happy for that. He cared about Sheppard and even the scene with mouse wasn´t funny. Well, yes it was but not so stupid like many other which were there just for comic. I think it was the tension they were feeling and was shooting because he thought he was in danger. Which is I think answer to your question, Jen. I think Rodney would be in frontline. He didn´t hesitate to shoot. I liked him flying the Jumper and I liked him acting like Sheppard.

I liked Weir. I understand her decision. As was said above, it is very american way do not deal woth terrorists but she, like a diplomat, knows what it mean civil war which would be the result if she gave Ladon to Kolya.

And as I said, I liked the Sheppard-Wraith scenes.

Teyla´s reaction for Rodney´s creation of Sheppard. She supported him and I loved it.
Ronon was his usual self and his loyalty to John is great. But I think he should be careful what is he doing. Destroy fragile alliance isn´t the best way how to deal things.

Few things I don´t understand:
Why did Ronon lead the strike team? I mean, he may like it or not, but Rodney is in the team 2IC. And 3IC in the Atlantis. No way he could lead the strike team (yet :p ) but isn´t there any other officer? Where is Lorne, he should lead the team. Not a man who even isn´t member of original expedition. Don´t tell me that in Atlantis is only Sheppard, Lorne and then a bunch of some little soldiers? We saw one major in Sateda.

What I didn´t like:
Teyla-I mean, her support of Rodney was great thing but I think she just doesn´t have anything to do. She says obvious things and then runs out with weapon. I even didn´t feel her concern too much. I think authors should quickly do something.

And now one thing I really hate:
Carson-what is it? It looks like they don´t know what to do with him. Why the hell was he in the strike team? I would understand it in Sateda where it was neccesary to move the thing from Ronon´s back. But as he said here, even if they found Sheppard, he didn´t know how to heal him. So why did he go with them? Bring Sheppard by Jumper would take 2 minutes. And his behaviorb...I don´t know. I don´t like it. His behavior to Rodney was very "Carter-like". I am really worried where is this heading. He was great in Irresistible and I even took it in Sateda. But this was too much for me. And as someone told here, I didn´t understand it in "Duet" either. I want back the old Beckett from S1. Do they believe that when he is regular now that he needs to be "useful"? Like we saw before, being regular isn´t so great sometimes because they have to be in almost every episode and they have to make them to do something. So it sometimes looks like Weir standing somewhere with computer...or Beckett with P-90 and it´s wrong.

ILoveMe
August 26th, 2006, 12:39 PM
So did this Wraith get a fanname yet? If not, I move we call him "Clint." Because of his awesome voice, and because he is sort of a "Wraith With No Name."


I second that. :)

rarocks24
August 26th, 2006, 12:49 PM
I disagree. Either he's named after Sean Connery, or he's named John, after John the Beloved. ;)

ILoveMe
August 26th, 2006, 12:53 PM
Sean Connory? lol. That doesn't even make sense. And John would get confusing, as it is Shepho's first name.

Long Live Clint!!!! The Wraith with no name. :wraith37:

Ironic
August 26th, 2006, 01:15 PM
I’m sorry, but I gotta comment about this. I am a Teyla fan here, after all.

About Teyla's boobies (and there's a sentence I never expected to type), can we please put things in proportion? (No pun intended, of course.) Yes, she has a great body. Yes, the PTB obviously like to show it off, but that does not automatically qualify her as nothing but eye-candy. While her role in this season has largely been diminished to the background, her character still has depth. Yes, that’s my story and I’m sticking to it. She is not all about boobies.

I still have faith that TPTB will remember this fact.

That is all.

latvian_stargatefan
August 26th, 2006, 01:20 PM
I liked this episode.
Wraith aren't pure evil- they simply must feed when they're feeling hunger. Are wolves or lions evil? Or maybe some animals think we're evil because we feed on them.
I think it's not the wright thing to turn Wraith into the humans. They are different species, like JAFFA in SG-1 with their own identity. If we could find some cure for them (like for Jaffa ) to not depend only on sucking life from humans they could live in peace with us. This episode proves that they are ''people'' with honour and respect to other species.

Klenotka
August 26th, 2006, 01:23 PM
I’m sorry, but I gotta comment about this. I am a Teyla fan here, after all.

About Teyla's boobies (and there's a sentence I never expected to type), can we please put things in proportion? (No pun intended, of course.) Yes, she has a great body. Yes, the PTB obviously like to show it off, but that does not automatically qualify her as nothing but eye-candy. While her role in this season has largely been diminished to the background, her character still has depth. Yes, that’s my story and I’m sticking to it. She is not all about boobies.

I still have faith that TPTB will remember this fact.

That is all.

I absolutely agree. The authors should see this and write some nice episode for Teyla.

Quinn Mallory
August 26th, 2006, 01:26 PM
Definitely one of the better SGA episode ever in my opinion. Good to see another side of the Wraiths, that's for sure.

For the people who complained about Teyla, she did showed one strong support for Weir after Lleyton (sp?) showed up.

RoryJ
August 26th, 2006, 01:34 PM
Absoluetly great episode! I was very impressed with it.

- I loved how Rodney behaved through the whole thing, even with the mouse. ;) He was concerned for his friend, and he was also willing to step up and lead the search for him.

- I was very impressed with Elizabeth. She was so strong throughout the whole ordeal, but Torri was able to play it so as to show that she was still devastated by what was happening. And they actually pulled in some diplomatic issues! Thank you, TPTB!

- JF just gives another fantastic performance. I'm so glad that S3 has given him a chance to show his stuff again, since season 2 wore a bit thin for me. Keep writing for Sheppard, Ken! You kind of rock.

- The development with the Wraith was very cool. I really hope we get to see him again.

- Nice to see Carson in more scenes again - I've missed him! And I think it made sense to have there; they had every reason to believe that Sheppard would be on the brink of death and would need immediate medical attention. Now, since this was a rescue op, it technically would have made the most sense to have a doctor from the military there, but it looks like Carson has gotten a bit more confident with his weapon, so I'll let it go.

Overall a great job. I give it a 9/10 , only because I wanted a scene with Sheppard and the team afterwards, though I understand why the scene with the Wraith was more important.

IMForeman
August 26th, 2006, 01:40 PM
I go with naming the Wraith "Bruce." After Bruce Campbell.

Oka
August 26th, 2006, 01:41 PM
Didn't particularly like this this episode. Don't like the Genii, nor Ronon's knee-jerk response to that Ladon(?) guy. Ronon comes off as a total retard. Weir was as annoying as ever.

Nice to see Kolya again. The Wraith dude was kind of cool.

Reset button strikes again! The part about Wraith being able to restore life as well as take it is dumb. Through the entire episode you KNEW that Sheppard was going to be reset in the end, yawn!

5/10

Sheppard's Delight
August 26th, 2006, 01:52 PM
Absoluetly great episode! I was very impressed with it.

- I loved how Rodney behaved through the whole thing, even with the mouse. ;) He was concerned for his friend, and he was also willing to step up and lead the search for him.

- I was very impressed with Elizabeth. She was so strong throughout the whole ordeal, but Torri was able to play it so as to show that she was still devastated by what was happening. And they actually pulled in some diplomatic issues! Thank you, TPTB!

- JF just gives another fantastic performance. I'm so glad that S3 has given him a chance to show his stuff again, since season 2 wore a bit thin for me. Keep writing for Sheppard, Ken! You kind of rock.

- The development with the Wraith was very cool. I really hope we get to see him again.

- Nice to see Carson in more scenes again - I've missed him! And I think it made sense to have there; they had every reason to believe that Sheppard would be on the brink of death and would need immediate medical attention. Now, since this was a rescue op, it technically would have made the most sense to have a doctor from the military there, but it looks like Carson has gotten a bit more confident with his weapon, so I'll let it go.

Overall a great job. I give it a 9/10 , only because I wanted a scene with Sheppard and the team afterwards, though I understand why the scene with the Wraith was more important.


I thought that this episode was awesome. I thought that Joe did a fantastic job and it was so good to see a nice meaty part for Shep!!! Ken did good indeed!!

But I agree the one thing missing was a nice team moment at the end - some kind of acknowledgement of what had happened to Shep. He just seemed to brush it all off far too easily. Even if physically he was fine there would be some mental angst for all involved and this didnt get touched on at all at the end which was a shame.

saberhagen83
August 26th, 2006, 02:05 PM
Great episode! It's nice to see the Genii again, and Koyla especially. The Wraith was pretty cool, and it's good that they show this other side of them. Sure I knew that Sheppard was going to be fine at the end, but that still doesn't take away the fact it was a very good ep. It's great to have these eps that focus mainly on one character, hoping for more this season! The only thing I missed in this one was more team interaction at the end. But I'll give it a 9/10, one I will watch again, I'm sure. :sheppard:

Adrius
August 26th, 2006, 02:19 PM
-Count me in as those not impressed with Rodney's latest fumbling with a gun. Come on writers, make up your mind - is he competent or not? I tire of using him in this way for a cheap laugh. Though I did enjoy his "Shep-like" comments to the departing military, and his macho thumbs up to Weir! HA! :DSomething people have failed to realize or mention with McKay's mouse death dealing..

Whil ehe may have been startled, he actually turned very quickly (no real time to concentrate on his target) and wasted a very small target.. sounds like he goes to the shooting range a lot :p

A.L.
August 26th, 2006, 02:20 PM
As with The Real World, I loved this episode for both it's Shep/Weir Shippyness and it's story aspects.

We start off strong with Ronon and Shep being the last to run through the gate, only for Shep to be snatched back suddenly. I agree with Shep, cool harpoon thing. My sis came running down and asked what happened and I said Shep was harpooned and she freaked. ;)

Then, enter Kolya. I know some fans are getting tired of the Genii bit. Not me. I love Genii episodes. I could be partial due to the Sparky (Shep/Weir) aspects that seem to surface under these circumstances ;) but the Genii, specifically Kolya, are awesome enemies. If I had to pick an arch nemesis for Shep it would totally be Kolya. There's a certain respect there along with their mutual hatred of each other. I think the only proper ending to this particular story line is for Shep to kill Koyla at some point. It seems to me the only death Koyla would find worthy, and Shep the only one worthy enough for the honor. ;)

My heart cringed seeing Shep tied up with a gag and knowing that a wraith wasn't far behind. I know Torri said in some interviews she felt she was too reserved in this episode, I think that's silly. She was perfect. We could see the inner turmoil in all that was happening to Sheppard but as we've come to learn, she takes her responsibilities to her people very seriously. She can't afford to make the trade of Ladin for Sheppard but she'd not going to just sit by and let Shep die without putting up a fight. Major Sparky in this epi in my opinion.

I loved how on the second or third transmission, Kolya asks her again to trade. In the back, Shep shakes his head no slightly. Elizabeth reaffirms the negative and Sheppard seems to nod yes in agreement and then get's fed on again. Killer! Loved it!

Although she didn't do it herself, the image that comes to mind when seeing Lizzie in this epi is a scene from The X-Files episode "Pusher". When Pusher, Mulder and Scully are all around that table in the hospital for a game of Russian Roulette. Mulder pulls the trigger on the gun aimed at his own head and Scully bolts from her seat, slams her hands on the table screaming "No! [email protected] you! You [email protected]!" to Pusher. That's the kind of emotion that while not vocalized I totally got from Elizabeth's expressions in this episode.

And I loved the whole Wraith and Sheppard team up aspect. I loved how it was a reluctant teaming up but how they both pulled their weight in getting out, trusting the other not to kill them at the first opportunity.

I know how some people might see the wraith being able to give back the life they took as a Big Red Button to fix it all but I disagree. I was bummed that we actually got more Wraith info instead of Shep backstory but it worked. I admit I'm getting a little tired of Carson always saying "There's still so much we don't know". At this point it sounds more like "The writers can't explain it yet either" but giving us this bit of info from a wraith made it better.

I love how the Wraith and Shep gained a bit of respect for each other. The Wraith basically called Shep his brother and then they both agreed all bets were off if they meet again. Perfect.

I loved the team interaction in here as well. Ronon getting more vocal and finally calling Sheppard his friend. The loyalty showed by all and the struggle to do what was necessary instead of what they all wanted which was to just trade Ladin and get Shep back.

Full of great dialogue:
Elizabeth: If you find Kolya first-
Ronon: No promises.
Elizabeth: Exactly.

Kolya: I think you underestimate Dr. Weir's sympathy.
Sheppard: YOU underestimate Elizabeth.

Of course, I paraphrase since I can't remember the exact wording. ;)

I thought this epi was great. I would have loved a Shep/Weir end scene for this epi (What can I say? I'm a die hard Sparky Shipper) but the final scene being between Shep and the Wraith was fitting and well done.

This epi definitely goes into my top 5 list of fave epi's. Great job to everyone in the show.

AL

Neduac
August 26th, 2006, 02:35 PM
Great ! Great ! Great !

Please forgive me if my english is not perfect... I'm a french fan of SG1 and Sga and i can do some mistakes !

I just wanted to say that I loved this ep, i was glued on my chair and didn't move till the end !

At last an ep where one of the heroes has a really bad time, where i was really afraid for his life.

At last an ep where the wraiths aren't treated just like some freaky predators but treated like equals to human. I particularly enjoyed all the " There'a s lot of things you don't know about..." moments.

Hallowed is Ken ! LOL

The Engineer
August 26th, 2006, 02:37 PM
This is the best Geni episode so far.
It's about the other side, the unseen side of the enemy. Episodes like Instinct, Michael, Misbegotten and Common Ground make Atlantis a better series. 3D enemies are better than the 2D ones.

stubadingdong
August 26th, 2006, 02:38 PM
I liked this episode.
Wraith aren't pure evil- they simply must feed when they're feeling hunger. Are wolves or lions evil? Or maybe some animals think we're evil because we feed on them.
I think it's not the wright thing to turn Wraith into the humans. They are different species, like JAFFA in SG-1 with their own identity. If we could find some cure for them (like for Jaffa ) to not depend only on sucking life from humans they could live in peace with us. This episode proves that they are ''people'' with honour and respect to other species.


As Michael said, being Wraith isn't some disease you can cure. If the Wraith are just feeding as wolves and lions do, how is finding...let's use "alternative food source"... going to be any better? You give them something else to feed on, like, I dunno, deer. So then the deer population diminishes to the point where those dependent upon the deer need to seek alternative sources, and so on down the line. When people mess with the food chain, it changes everything. Predators migrate to places where they normally wouldn't, food sources in those areas suddenly become depleted causing starvation and death to lots of other creatures dependent on this ecosystem. It throws the whole thing out of whack.

I just don't see how the Wraith feeding on something else will make things any better...if we want to inject any realism into it. I can't see them willingly coexist peacefully with what sustains their lives. It's a perk being at the top of the food chain.

CalmStorm
August 26th, 2006, 02:48 PM
Something people have failed to realize or mention with McKay's mouse death dealing..

Whil ehe may have been startled, he actually turned very quickly (no real time to concentrate on his target) and wasted a very small target.. sounds like he goes to the shooting range a lot :p

...or just kept his finger on the trigger of an automatic weapon and sprayed bullets all over the place and managed to hit something :P

ladyjanus
August 26th, 2006, 02:52 PM
If I can ask a hopefully-not-so-stupid question...

Could the wraith have called Shep "brother" as the end because he "tasted" the taint of the retrovirus that almost turned Shep into a wraith, or even the taint of the Iratus bug's feeding, which is the original form of all the Wraith as I understand it?

That's the first thing that ran through my mind when I heard the world brother. Could the Wraith have been willing to work with shep and not just dine on him because shep is more wraith now than anyone realizes?

Just a thought...

ladyjanus

CalmStorm
August 26th, 2006, 02:58 PM
If I can ask a hopefully-not-so-stupid question...

Could the wraith have called Shep "brother" as the end because he "tasted" the taint of the retrovirus that almost turned Shep into a wraith, or even the taint of the Iratus bug's feeding, which is the original form of all the Wraith as I understand it?

That's the first thing that ran through my mind when I heard the world brother. Could the Wraith have been willing to work with shep and not just dine on him because shep is more wraith now than anyone realizes?

Just a thought...

ladyjanus

That could be possible, but I saw it more in a symbolic way. I think when the wraith said that Sheppard was more like wraith than he knew, I interpreted it to be more character wise than actually familial. I think it's just one of those things completely up for individual interpretation.

Mackan
August 26th, 2006, 03:34 PM
Brilliant episode, with depth! We need episodes like these.

doylefan22
August 26th, 2006, 03:53 PM
As Michael said, being Wraith isn't some disease you can cure. If the Wraith are just feeding as wolves and lions do, how is finding...let's use "alternative food source"... going to be any better? You give them something else to feed on, like, I dunno, deer. So then the deer population diminishes to the point where those dependent upon the deer need to seek alternative sources, and so on down the line. When people mess with the food chain, it changes everything. Predators migrate to places where they normally wouldn't, food sources in those areas suddenly become depleted causing starvation and death to lots of other creatures dependent on this ecosystem. It throws the whole thing out of whack.

I just don't see how the Wraith feeding on something else will make things any better...if we want to inject any realism into it. I can't see them willingly coexist peacefully with what sustains their lives. It's a perk being at the top of the food chain.

Good points. Also, the Wraith have never shown a desire to stop feeding on humans. If you could find a 'cure' for them why on earth would they bother taking it? They seem to rather enjoy feeding on humans who, in the whole, are no great threat to them and therefore there's no reason to seek peace. They are quite happy to have them go on being their cattle.

Easter Lily
August 26th, 2006, 04:17 PM
A large dose of Enemy Mine and a dash of Monte Cristo... and voila... Common Ground.

Everyone's pretty much said it... it's fabulous episode... one of the best... Great performances from Joe Flanigan, Christopher Heyerdahl and Torri Higginson.

I must admit the "torture" scenes were very hard to take... while I wasn't bursting into tears or screaming... I had to avert my eyes.

I LOVED the interaction between Sheppard and the unnamed Wraith...
Great dialogue... wonderful writing...

Willow'sCat
August 26th, 2006, 04:27 PM
But a curious question... when the Wraith mentioned that Shep is more like a Wraith during their initial conversations and in the end, told him about the rejuvination effect being reserved for "Brothers"
- was that a symbolic reference or literal?I have been wondering about that and some of the comments from some of the actors...you don't think this gift of life is a way to turn humans Wraith? That would be a very controversial thing, Sheppard as Wraith and lets face it some would see it as an awful thing for the PTB to do to Sheppard, I don't see this really happening but I also can't see this part of the story being left at this, they will/should follow it up.

must admit the "torture" scenes were very hard to take... while I wasn't bursting into tears or screaming... I had to avert my eyes.
Aw, well it all worked out in the end and as Rodney said he looks younger, so it's all good. :D Wow tears? Really? :S

Xanderic
August 26th, 2006, 04:34 PM
I have been wondering about that and some of the comments from some of the actors...you don't think this gift of life is a way to turn humans Wraith? That would be a very controversial thing, Sheppard as Wraith and lets face it some would see it as an awful thing for the PTB to do to Sheppard, I don't see this really happening but I also can't see this part of the story being left at this, they will/should follow it up.
Aw, well it all worked out in the end and as Rodney said he looks younger, so it's all good. :D Wow tears? Really? :S

Hey same here. don't laugh!...and I believe there will definately be a follow up episode... else "All Bets are off" statement is rendered useless. Of course, in a galaxy, it might be hard to cross paths again... but this is stargate and apparently it's really easy for people to cross paths.

TattertotLove
August 26th, 2006, 04:52 PM
I thought this was a good episode. I had a lot of emotions running through me during the episode. I threw a couple of things at Kolya's head but instead of him suffering the pain my TV did. I was a bit disapointed at the ending though. I was happy to see the wraith returned alive in all but I really wanted to see Wier's reaction to Shepperd when he returned to Atlantis. O well.

I could hardly watch Shepp getting sucked on by a Wraith. I was sitting there in my chair with my eyes covered in a beetle position during the process. Then when he turned old....it just disgusted me in a way.
Happy to see Shepperd returned to his good ole self.:sheppard:

JohnDuh
August 26th, 2006, 05:09 PM
ZZZZzzzzzzzzzz

EdenSG
August 26th, 2006, 05:23 PM
Awesome episode.

Loved it from beginning to end! Had me sitting on the edge of the couch and biting my nails the whole time.

Kudos to Ken C for his first episode. Great writing!!! Very much looking forward to your next episode!!!

Loved seeing a Wraith as more than just the life sucking bad guy, as people have been saying, we needed to see a 3-D Wraith. Makes the enemy more real and more interesting.

Loved the return of the Genii and of both Kolya and Laydon. Interesting to get the backstory on the coup. Also good to explore the relationship Atlantis has with Laydon and the Genii.

Loved the tenuous relationship between Shep and the Wraith but how in the end how they both kept their end of the agreement. So well written and so well played.

Loved how Weir stood strong on her decision not to trade with "terrorists" but
you could also see how torn she was and how distraught she was over what was happening to Shep.

Loved to see Shep kick some butt, whether young or old. Also loved seeing him as a strong character, able to read the situation, making good decisions and using his wits to aid him.

Loved the "gift of life" twist at the end to get Shep his youth back. I don't see it as an easy out or reset button at all. They had to do it somehow and I think this idea was fresh, different and gave us new insight into the Wraith.

Loved the scenes with Rodney - not too over the top and you could really see his concern for Shep.

The scenes of Shep being fed on - hard to watch but so well done and so well acted.

Joe F did an outstanding acting job. Especially his eyes and his expressions in this episode, everything was perfect. IMHO JF is a terrific actor and has always done a great job acting in every episode - but in this one he was exeptional.

Chris H as the Wraith also did an outstanding acting job. He really did a great job bringing that Wraith to life and giving him an interesting persona. One moment you are cringing at his ruthless feeding on Shep than by the end admiring him for giving Shep the "gift of life."

The only thing I would have liked to have also seen was more of a reunion scene with his team and at Atlantis, but there was so much going on in the ep I realize that time was limited.

Also kudos also to the Director/Editing - the episode was fast-paced, exciting, tension filled - great job

All in all this was a great episode. Loved it!!!
It goes into my top 5 Atlantis episodes of all time.

CalmStorm
August 26th, 2006, 05:26 PM
I LOVED the interaction between Sheppard and the unnamed Wraith...
Great dialogue... wonderful writing...

What I loved best about this was that this wraith had a sense of humor.

I'm glad that we are seeing the different personalities come through the individual wraith instead of looking at them as a collective with all possessing the exact same demeanor and attitude.

Admiral Mappalazarou
August 26th, 2006, 06:28 PM
another Great ep - 'There are more about the Wraith than you know...'

I sort of predicted that Shepherd would get his life back at the end by the Wraith, but it may've been more hope, lol.
I'm not a big fan of the Genii, but I thought this ep was surprisingly good. :) AND I wanna see that immensely cool wraith again - He was awesome.

roseblue
August 26th, 2006, 06:34 PM
Oh man, loved the episode all the way!!! How about naming that wraith Charlie!? :)


Hey, did anyone record the end credits of the episode "Misbegotten"?
If so, were there film extras (actors) listed in the end credits of the episode? (list the actors if there were any listed)

lululees
August 26th, 2006, 06:38 PM
Ooooh, the convergence themes are getting exciting - now I'm really starting to enjoy the complexity and at last a 'semi-good' wraith... about time, all thru SG1 there was this some good, some bad and some just plain stoopid (or arrogant), and I'm pleased it's emerging in Atlantis too - this, with the Asurans being bot-based looks like we're headed for an amazing standoff at some point - wonder if the replicators the Asgard have been fighting have replicated them yet?? ;) Love the much more dimensional wraith .... (find the Ori really boring tho!) That's my bit... really good show, and unexpected but very welcomed character development

kris
August 26th, 2006, 06:43 PM
ZZZZzzzzzzzzzz
That good, huh? ;)

Oh well, there's another in a couple of weeks.

TattertotLove
August 26th, 2006, 07:00 PM
Oh man, loved the episode all the way!!! How about naming that wraith Charlie!? :)


Hey, did anyone record the end credits of the episode "Misbegotten"?
If so, were there film extras (actors) listed in the end credits of the episode? (list the actors if there were any listed)

I like the idea of naming the Wraith Charlie though when I hear that name I think of a dog (no affence to anyone)

Sorry, I didn't record the credits...I never actually pay attention to the credits cuz I'm watching the next weeks new episode while they role on the bottom of the screen.:)

ladyjanus
August 26th, 2006, 07:09 PM
I just now made the connection as to who played the nameless wraith in Common Ground. I should have recognized that voice. I've been a fan of Christopher Heyedahl for some time now.

I do love a good character actor, someone who's got no problem putting on a scary wig and a fake nose or two and still managing to come across with the goods and delivering a fine piece of acting.

Everyone did really good job on this epsiode. Love the inner work that Joe Flannigan did, projecting all that pain and horror and hatred with jsut his eyes and some seriously restrained body language.

And Robert Davi is simply amazing. He's been one of my all time favorite character actors for, oh lemme see, got to be 20 years now. I'd really like to see more of him, maybe a really scary intense in-your-face, last-pitch fight to the death between Kolya and Shepherd...Can't wait...

ladyjanus

Lt.Colonel John Sheppard
August 26th, 2006, 07:30 PM
wasn't this episode supposedly to cover Sheppard's Participation in the Armed Forces or will that be covered in "Phantoms"

ToasterOnFire
August 26th, 2006, 07:35 PM
Something people have failed to realize or mention with McKay's mouse death dealing..

Whil ehe may have been startled, he actually turned very quickly (no real time to concentrate on his target) and wasted a very small target.. sounds like he goes to the shooting range a lot :p
In those regards yes, I was thinking more of his obvious fear which caused him to shoot blindly. I mean, would you want that kind of kneejerk reaction on your team?

(For that matter, why was Rodney on the team? Was there a science element that I didn't hear, or was it just to give him screentime?)


I have been wondering about that and some of the comments from some of the actors...you don't think this gift of life is a way to turn humans Wraith? That would be a very controversial thing, Sheppard as Wraith and lets face it some would see it as an awful thing for the PTB to do to Sheppard, I don't see this really happening but I also can't see this part of the story being left at this, they will/should follow it up.
Awesome idea, though this plotline may be too similar to Shep's recent conversion to a bug. Still, it's not like TPTB haven't borrowed their own ideas before...:P

Easter Lily
August 26th, 2006, 07:36 PM
Aw, well it all worked out in the end and as Rodney said he looks younger, so it's all good. :D Wow tears? Really? :S
Oh no... not me...
But some people on the thread said earlier that they were in tears or close to it...
I'm too old for crying during torture but I still flinch... ;)

Ronnikins
August 26th, 2006, 08:15 PM
Oh no... not me...
But some people on the thread said earlier that they were in tears or close to it...
I'm too old for crying during torture but I still flinch... ;)

I squirmed a bit too during the torture scenes.

IMHO, Season 3 started off strongly and it gets better and better (apart from Irresistible) with each episode. Let's hope TPTB keep this up with the rest.
I want to keep this writer, Ken Cuperus, please? He knows how to write strong, believable and even sympathetic characters whether they be the good guys or the baddies.
What can I say about JF and his characterisation of John? It seems a tad unfair to have someone so good looking who's also an intuitively brilliant actor. Kudos!

I've always preferred the Genii, mainly due to Robert Davi's subtle acting, to the 2-D Wraith as enemies but this episode has renewed my interest in them. I'm really hoping we'll encounter this particular wraith again. I liked him.

I also enjoyed TH's portrayal of Weir in this episode. She made Weir a strong, very strong leader who wouldn't compromise with terrorists, even at the risk of losing her colleague and very close personal friend. She showed the right amount of strength and despair. This just re-inforced the leadership qualities she has shown in all the earlier s:3 episodes. Kudos again.

The rest of the cast were mostly in character from Ronon showing his concern for Shep (reminds me of a puppy fiercely loyal to his master beyond reason) to McKay and his, oh so cute, "Shep" speech to the marines. The "mouse" thing was a bit OTT but funny. (Made me wonder what a Pegasus mouse would look like, like an Earth mouse?).
Overall, an awesome episode, ranking right up there, for me anyway, with TRW and Sateda. :D

PegasusPrincess
August 26th, 2006, 08:47 PM
This episode was awesome on a number of levels.

I've never been a fan of Genii episodes but this one was great with the captured Wraith mixed in.
I always had the thought that the Wraith could give life just the same as they take it away, but to see it, have it confirmed was really cool.

I think it's interesting timing showing that the Wraith have thoughts beyond feeding and destruction and are capable of sympathy and empathy. With the emergence of the Asurans as a threat - maybe this was a glimpse of a shaky alliance between Atlantis & the Wraith, fighting the Asurans together perhaps? That would be quite interesting.

I have to say also that Weir really showed alot of backbone in this ep, by not giving into any demands, despite the cost - one of the few times they've shown her as a truly capable leader who can make the hard decision without any real hesitation, but still trying to think her way out of the situation at hand by using whatever resources she could at the time.

Really well written, well thought out ep - 9/10 from me!

The Sweet Guy
August 26th, 2006, 08:48 PM
Wow, what a great episode. It definitely lived up to my expectations. There was a few things I was hoping to see, like more interaction between Kolya and Sheppard, as well as the backstory for the latter. I'm not disappointed though, because it looks like Irresponsible and Phantoms will remedy this. This left plenty of room for some great scenes between Sheppard and the Wraith as well, I'm glad they're trying to make the normal Wraith as interesting as the humanized kind. The jail scenes were awesome, with some good development for Shep. I'm glad Sheppard respected his ally and didn't give him a nickname. They did a great buildup to when Sheppard and the Wraith escape. The Wraith was so cool, he was screaming and tearing those Genii apart. I'd also like to say how good the aged makeup for Sheppard was. The gift of life scene was very nice as well. They could do so many interesting things with the Wraith, I hope they (especially the wraith in this one) don't get pushed out of the way for the Asurans. The only complaint I have is the rescue scene with Rodney. I realize they should have some humor occasionally but Rodney freaking out with the P90 was silly. It's just inconsistent with his character. We've seen his bravery and maturity in dangerous situations, they should stop making him act stupid for comic relief. However, I'm glad they've kept him toned down this season, it was very annoying last season. Anyway, certainly my favorite episode so far and I hope Ken keeps writing for a long time, especially for Sheppard! :sheppard:

gambit
August 26th, 2006, 08:54 PM
Rodney. I realize they should have some humor occasionally but Rodney freaking out with the P90 was silly. It's just inconsistent with his character. We've seen his bravery and maturity in dangerous situations, they should stop making him act stupid for comic relief.

I don't think it was inconsistent with his character. I love Rodney but he is the one who always freaks out during dangerous situations, always. He can do the job when it needs to be done but he's a headcase doing it though.

The Sweet Guy
August 26th, 2006, 09:47 PM
Well, The Defiant One is probably the biggest example of Rodney's courage and will to help. I'd just figure after a while he'd act more mature on a mission while maintaning his humor.

white noise
August 26th, 2006, 09:59 PM
i think tayla is now the t&a girl of the series. i guess if she wants out of the push up bra, she's going to have show her teeth! pity too, i liked her character in the beginning. as far as wraith go, he wasn't a creep, but still the enemy and just because he lived up to the deal, doesn't make me all touchy feely. geeze, the wraith don't even trust each other, why should we?

Easter Lily
August 26th, 2006, 11:03 PM
i think tayla is now the t&a girl of the series. i guess if she wants out of the push up bra, she's going to have show her teeth! pity too, i liked her character in the beginning. as far as wraith go, he wasn't a creep, but still the enemy and just because he lived up to the deal, doesn't make me all touchy feely. geeze, the wraith don't even trust each other, why should we?
I don't trust him either but I do appreciate that he's a multi-dimensional creature. He still needs to feed on people to live so yeah, I'm not going to give him hugs just yet.

Linzi
August 26th, 2006, 11:06 PM
wasn't this episode supposedly to cover Sheppard's Participation in the Armed Forces or will that be covered in "Phantoms"
I don't know about that. But, certainly Sheppard's back story was moved from Common Ground to Phantoms. So, we should learn more about Sheppard's past in that episode.

ladysarah
August 27th, 2006, 12:02 AM
I found this episode interesting.

Considering that Sheppard hates the Wraith a lot, apart from Ronon - to see him come around to trust one was surprising.

I hope this has long term consequences in the evolution of the Wraith, and what we've learnt about them, but I think things are going to go the way of Michael and we'll be left with 'Wraith are the evil'.

Again.

Reaceania
August 27th, 2006, 04:38 AM
I’m feeling lucky or something right now. It’s been four exceptionally good eps in a row for me. *thanks the entertainment gods in the sky*

I thoroughly enjoyed this ep. Joe Flannigan was great especially in the scenes he shared with Robert Davi. I must admit that ever since the The Storm and The Eye I’ve been dreaming of seeing the two of them (actually the three of them, including Elizabeth) in a scene together. The interaction between the three of them in those episodes and this one have been great! Christopher Heyerdahl made me care for a Wraith and I mean a wild type-Wraith*. [*While I did feel for Ella she had been raised human and with Michael, well, let’s just say he comes across as more manipulative]. There was a degree of, dare I say it, compassion in this Wraith which I hadn’t expected, especially when he stopped feeding on Sheppard. We know this was torturous for him to do yet he stopped of his own accord and questioningly looked to Kolya to stop. The look on his face made me believe, or at least want to believe, that it was something beyond the practicality of having an extra body on the escape attempt that made him stop. Then this original compassion was backed up by his actions after they escaped. After feeding, he could have easily left Sheppard to die and continued on with the escape attempt on his own. Anything that adds an extra layer of complexity to the Wraith is a good thing in my book. It would be interesting to see if he ever turns up again. Could he become the Chaka of the SGA universe? A go-between? An educator? Or will he be lost to the ether?

The other thing that I really liked about this episode was the treatment of Weir. We saw her leadership skills put to the test and she passed with colours. She was pushed into a difficult situation: forced to take the “do the right thing” road at the expense of a dear friend. She was forced to feel the burden of command again but she held her self with poise. The balcony scene between her and Chuck was one of my favourites. She didn’t have to say anything for you to know how anxious she was. The reaction of both Elizabeth and Ronon to the third feeding attempt was poignant (it was so well done I’ve had to watch it again a few times ;)). She did the right thing but never ventured into the territory of either “the cold steely unfeeling leader” or “emotionally wrecked leader” that has often happened to female leaders on other shows. Sheppard’s nodding in the background when he heard Elizabeth saying she wouldn’t concede to Kolya’s demands was a nice touch. Something that I have found interesting is that I had felt the bond/connection between Sheppard and Weir through much of this episode yet it wasn’t until after the episode, when I was mulling over what had happened, that I realised that Sheppard and Weir were never physically in a scene together.

Well okay there’s another “other thing I really liked about this ep” and that was the return of Robert Davi as Kolya. Even with the Asurans on the playing field I still think he’s my favourite “villain.” Mainly because at the moment he comes across as having the most complexity of all the “bad guys.” He laughed in all the right places to make me quite sure I never want to be on his radar. I hope we see him again soon.

Other little things I liked: Rodney’s pep talk and his thumbs up to Elizabeth. Teyla’s encouragement of Rodney and her support of Elizabeth’s decisions was nicely in character. Carson felt like part of the team. Ronon’s desire to get Shep back was a nice mirror to Sateda. This was a great team ep.

On the whole I thought it reasonably balanced amongst the main cast, it saw the return of my fav villain and it was nicely paced with some nice character development / character moments. Top Stuff!

More please!

stubadingdong
August 27th, 2006, 06:56 AM
I don't trust him either but I do appreciate that he's a multi-dimensional creature. He still needs to feed on people to live so yeah, I'm not going to give him hugs just yet.

I thought it was Wraith version of going insane. He's been isolated for presumably a very, very long time. For such a social species, I imagine isolation would have some serious consequences on a Wraith psyche. His "compassion" could be one of those. I'm not gonna take the actions of one not-missed-left-for-dead Wraith as a sign that "they're not all bad." Again, Sheppard doesn't really trust him, given the "all bets are off" goodbye at the end. He's expecting his Wraith escapee partner to go back to being vicious. To humans, that's what the Wraith are.

FallenAngelII
August 27th, 2006, 08:29 AM
I thought it was Wraith version of going insane. He's been isolated for presumably a very, very long time. For such a social species, I imagine isolation would have some serious consequences on a Wraith psyche. His "compassion" could be one of those. I'm not gonna take the actions of one not-missed-left-for-dead Wraith as a sign that "they're not all bad." Again, Sheppard doesn't really trust him, given the "all bets are off" goodbye at the end. He's expecting his Wraith escapee partner to go back to being vicious. To humans, that's what the Wraith are.

A lot of Wraith have shown themselves to be intelligent creatures that aren't all about feeding and evil:

The Wraith keeper
The one in Condemned who made that deal
Ellia
Michael
And now Unknown

All living things must eat. When will people realize that?! If eating cows was the only way human beings could survive (and don't wave the retrovirus in my face, because no living Wraith besides maybe Michael, if he's still alive, knows about it!), no vegetarians or vegans would run around being vegetarian, vegan or shouting "Meat is murder".

We have a choice. The Wraith do not.

stubadingdong
August 27th, 2006, 09:10 AM
A lot of Wraith have shown themselves to be intelligent creatures that aren't all about feeding and evil:

The Wraith keeper
The one in Condemned who made that deal
Ellia
Michael
And now Unknown

All living things must eat. When will people realize that?! If eating cows was the only way human beings could survive (and don't wave the retrovirus in my face, because no living Wraith besides maybe Michael, if he's still alive, knows about it!), no vegetarians or vegans would run around being vegetarian, vegan or shouting "Meat is murder".

We have a choice. The Wraith do not.

I can't tell if you're agreeing with me or not, but I can say that five Wraith is not a lot. Wraith need Humans for food and to Humans that makes them vicious killers. For anyone in Atlantis to have hope because a handful of Wraith didn't try to eat the A-Team would make them stupid, quite frankly. Until the Wraith and the Humans have a common goal (Ori anyone?), there will be no peace. Which is kind of what I took from the episode.

stewsith
August 27th, 2006, 09:11 AM
Excellent episode! Great insight into the wraith! when

the wraith fed of shepard that last time and you saw him turn into almost a skeleton I shouted "what the hell" at the tv and thought it might have been a dream shepard had. I kinda thought the wrait must be able to help him.

FallenAngelII
August 27th, 2006, 09:26 AM
I can't tell if you're agreeing with me or not, but I can say that five Wraith is not a lot. Wraith need Humans for food and to Humans that makes them vicious killers. For anyone in Atlantis to have hope because a handful of Wraith didn't try to eat the A-Team would make them stupid, quite frankly. Until the Wraith and the Humans have a common goal (Ori anyone?), there will be no peace. Which is kind of what I took from the episode.

I'm saying the Wraith aren't evil.

Sleepy
August 27th, 2006, 09:35 AM
This is my first post here so I'll start by saying "Hello!"

I really liked this episode. I thought JF's acting in this was great. :sheppard:
I agree with others before me here that Teyla seemed under utilized. Although Ronon didn't have a lot of screen time either, you knew how he felt about the situation. It would have been nice to see how she was taking this.

It did bother me a little that Sheppard could take down the guards in his weakened state but later I thought about it and have a few ideas:
1) He did have the element of surprise. He probably faked some of his weakness (Ok - so he didn't have to try hard at that I suppose), so the guards really let their guard down thinking he was dead weight.
2) The man was desperate. Probably had a bit of an adrenaline rush going. After all, this was it. He knew that he wouldn't survive the next feeding they were taking him to.
3) Sure he took the guards down, but when he was done, he didn't exactly jump up and start running. I think he crashed after they reached the forest. He takes the first watch, but notice where we see him next- propped against a tree looking pretty bad. He didn't even try to move when the wraith came up to him.
4) Final thought: with all the interrupted feedings, is it possible he had a bit of the wraith enzyme in his system? Maybe that helped him out for a brief time.

Great episode! I hope there's more to come like this!

chiefchucky
August 27th, 2006, 10:21 AM
This was one hell of a good episode. I think its my alltime favorite. The only thing I thought was missing was a blood curdling scream from sheppard during the feeding.

Alipeeps
August 27th, 2006, 10:38 AM
Now the bad.

Shep has been fed upon several times and everyone mentions he is near death, yet he can still take on two young-buck guards and then keep up with the Wraith. Yeah. .right. My whole family was laughing at that scene, and I doubt it was supposed to be funny.

Ah but the only person who said Shep was near death was the Wraith... and, as he explained to Sheppard later in the cell, he was lying cos he wanted Sheppard to have some strength left for an escape attempt..



Last, but not least. . .What does this show have against names? Poor Console Dude has been in, oh. . how many episodes? The Wraith NEVER have names (unless they are given one in jest and then whacked). Poor Lorne, he is never going to get a first name!


The fact that the Wraith have pretty much deliberately never been given names makes me think that they possibly/probably don't have any. We know so little about how their society functions.. but given that they can communicate telepathically... well, what use is a name as an identifier when you can share thoughts with your fellow Wraith?

angelwings9
August 27th, 2006, 11:21 AM
Because that would be cruel? What human would want to be fed upon repeatedly? And it could have the same effects like the sarcophagus maybe? After prolonged use, it stops having an affect?

Didn't notice in this episode, but I did noticed Teyla was a bit booby in Sateda as well.



- Forgive me if this is all wrong, first post!
anyways, do you think that this ability of the Wraiths is what gave the ancients the idea for the device that started the sarcophagus thing? we already know that some of the ancients possesed the healing power, but they couldn't all have otherwise why create a healing device? oh mabey thats what the thing (glowing cube) Daniel found made people go all crazy, because it was inspired by the wraith. humm, intersting. by the way this ep sounds great but i've not seen it yet! or any others from season there cause the uk sucks! (unless you like doctor who that is)
:sheppard: :)

Lone Wolf
August 27th, 2006, 12:59 PM
I`m not one to voice my opinion a lot but this episode deserves praise. In my opinion "Common Ground" was the highlight of the season...and it was a good season so far. Excellently written and acted the ep was destined to be a treat but there`s also something more...the episode had that certain "feeling" about it that made me love Atlantis in the first place and that has either been missing from the show for a while or was unsufficiently there.

:sheppard: rules and i`m also growing to love :ronan: more and more.

PG15
August 27th, 2006, 01:52 PM
Wow, amazing episode! :wraith:

Kolya was back on top, and Laden was every bit the man he used to be and then some! Flanigan was AMAZING in this episode, I loved when he told the Wraith to shut the hell up. :D

And of course, the Wraith himself. Wonderfully portrayed.

The points:

As I said, Kolya was supreme evil in this episode. I yelled more than once that "Kolya must die!!!" I'm glad they didn't kill him though, so the evilness around him can build up so that, when he does get killed, it'll be a helluvallot sweeter.

The feeding scenes were in-tense! You can almost feel Shep's pain (along with those guards). For the first time since Rising I felt scared watching it.

You can see the caring for Shep between the characters, especially from Ronan, which is perfect considering what happened in Sateda. His character has definately grown on me.

Teyla's low-cut shirt. Awesome. :D

I really REALLY want to see that Wraith again. I don't care in what capacity, but he needs to return, pronto!

The music was good, once again. I don't know how Goldsmith keeps getting turned down my Emmies. Those ba****ds.

Ken "Copernicus" Cuperus did a great job with his first outing, just like Carl Binder, and we knew how that turned out. So a big good job and good luck to Ken, and here's hoping you'll be churning out great episodes like this for many more years down the road (preferably for Stargate)!

One little problem was in how Shep took down the guards so fast, and why they weren't holding those big rifles. Of course, it can be explained that they thought that Shep was too weak to fight back.

All in all, a great episode. This season is turning out awesome!!

Score: 9.5/10

EDIT: What?! Halling was the Wraith?! Wow, that's just wrong and cool on so many levels. ;) This is good though, since the actor is probably more available for guest appearences in the future.

Linzi
August 27th, 2006, 01:58 PM
This is my first post here so I'll start by saying "Hello!"

I really liked this episode. I thought JF's acting in this was great. :sheppard:
I agree with others before me here that Teyla seemed under utilized. Although Ronon didn't have a lot of screen time either, you knew how he felt about the situation. It would have been nice to see how she was taking this.

It did bother me a little that Sheppard could take down the guards in his weakened state but later I thought about it and have a few ideas:
1) He did have the element of surprise. He probably faked some of his weakness (Ok - so he didn't have to try hard at that I suppose), so the guards really let their guard down thinking he was dead weight.
2) The man was desperate. Probably had a bit of an adrenaline rush going. After all, this was it. He knew that he wouldn't survive the next feeding they were taking him to.
3) Sure he took the guards down, but when he was done, he didn't exactly jump up and start running. I think he crashed after they reached the forest. He takes the first watch, but notice where we see him next- propped against a tree looking pretty bad. He didn't even try to move when the wraith came up to him.
4) Final thought: with all the interrupted feedings, is it possible he had a bit of the wraith enzyme in his system? Maybe that helped him out for a brief time.

Great episode! I hope there's more to come like this!
Excellent points. I agree. Sheppard was not as weak as the viewer had been led to initially believe. The guards thought he was near death, and Sheppard took advantage of that. He certainly didn't look too good afterwards, did he?

Xanderic
August 27th, 2006, 02:00 PM
Score: 9.5/10


Bas***d! it's a 10/10!!!!

PG15
August 27th, 2006, 02:11 PM
Bas***d! it's a 10/10!!!!

If it'll satisfy you, I voted 10/10 on the episode poll on the main page.

I always round up. ;) :p

Xanderic
August 27th, 2006, 02:20 PM
If it'll satisfy you, I voted 10/10 on the episode poll on the main page.

I always round up. ;) :p
:p... btw PG-15: http://forum.gateworld.net/showthread.php?p=5718081#post5718081 hehe.

Easter Lily
August 27th, 2006, 02:26 PM
It did bother me a little that Sheppard could take down the guards in his weakened state but later I thought about it and have a few ideas:
1) He did have the element of surprise. He probably faked some of his weakness (Ok - so he didn't have to try hard at that I suppose), so the guards really let their guard down thinking he was dead weight.
2) The man was desperate. Probably had a bit of an adrenaline rush going. After all, this was it. He knew that he wouldn't survive the next feeding they were taking him to.
3) Sure he took the guards down, but when he was done, he didn't exactly jump up and start running. I think he crashed after they reached the forest. He takes the first watch, but notice where we see him next- propped against a tree looking pretty bad. He didn't even try to move when the wraith came up to him.
4) Final thought: with all the interrupted feedings, is it possible he had a bit of the wraith enzyme in his system? Maybe that helped him out for a brief time.

Great episode! I hope there's more to come like this!
I posed this question to Bam2 on his question thread... This is his response...


When I read the script the first time, that was my initial reaction as well. After asking TPTB what I was to make of this, we decided to make him able to have enough training, that with a burst of energy(fighting for your life remember), he could accomplish this feat seemingly super-human. Most of the target areas he used on the bad guys were very vital areas that don't take alot of strength to injure...ie....the wind pipe.

PG15
August 27th, 2006, 02:57 PM
:p... btw PG-15: http://forum.gateworld.net/showthread.php?p=5718081#post5718081 hehe.

Hehe.

Sure, if they allow us in. ;)

ranlynn
August 27th, 2006, 04:24 PM
I'm saying the Wraith aren't evil.

Not Evil?? Not sure, they are definately becoming less 2 dememsional though.

But one should remember the fable about the frog & the scorpion:

A scorpion and a frog meet on the bank of a stream and the
scorpion asks the frog to carry him across on its back. The
frog asks, "How do I know you won't sting me?" The scorpion
says, "Because if I do, I will die too."

The frog is satisfied, and they set out, but in midstream,
the scorpion stings the frog. The frog feels the onset of
paralysis and starts to sink, knowing they both will drown,
but has just enough time to gasp "Why?"

Replies the scorpion: "Its my nature..."

obsessed1
August 27th, 2006, 04:37 PM
Just popping in to say..what a fantastic episode. Well written, brilliantly acted by Joe 'sweeeeet!' flanigan, very very cool all round

Season three is the best so far IMHO :)

ladysarah
August 27th, 2006, 04:50 PM
Not Evil?? Not sure, they are definately becoming less 2 dememsional though.

But one should remember the fable about the frog & the scorpion:

Replies the scorpion: "Its my nature..."[/B][/I]


But would you call a scorpion evil? People keep throwing that heavy word around casually as if it's going out of fashion, but to quote another famous story:


You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

Michelle05
August 27th, 2006, 05:11 PM
The other thing that I really liked about this episode was the treatment of Weir. We saw her leadership skills put to the test and she passed with colours. She was pushed into a difficult situation: forced to take the “do the right thing” road at the expense of a dear friend. She was forced to feel the burden of command again but she held her self with poise.

I know I'm in the minority thinking this, but I don't understand why she needed to keep the moral high ground against the Genii. They are a bunch of liars, and Atlantis doesn't owe them anything, especially not when they drag Atlantis into the middle of their power struggles.

I would have had a lot more respect for Weir if she'd lifted a finger to keep John from being fed on more than once. How could she say "no" to Kolya for that second and third feeding? She's lied to him to buy time before, in Storm/Eye. What if she'd said, "Okay, we'll make the trade on a neutral planet. We need 6 hours to find one where we're sure you don't have an ambush waiting for us." Kolya might have disbelieved her or had the Wraith feed on John again just to teach her a lesson, but at least she would have tried instead of impotently watching her supposed friend be fed on again after doing NOTHING to try to help him.

To me it was expedient writing at its worst, and it made me dislike Weir more than I ever have, because I cannot imagine ever letting that happen to a friend of mine if a lie would buy some time for him. It's a pity, because other than that I loved the episode.

ladysarah
August 27th, 2006, 05:24 PM
I know I'm in the minority thinking this, but I don't understand why she needed to keep the moral high ground against the Genii.

I know I'm in the minority for thinking the opposite about Weir. She at one point told Ladon that if it was up to her, she'd turn him over to Kolya, that it was only the laws of her country *hahaha, like she's ever let that stop her before* that was staying her hand.

Not to mention her pet semi-tame dog Ronon, always great for diplomacy is having a guy threatening the other side.

I'm amazed that Ladon was so cooperative.

Weir and Ronon didn't impress me in this episode...not at all.

Scully
August 27th, 2006, 05:25 PM
Since I’m usually a lurker, I thought it high time to step out of the shadows and say what a fantastic ep this was. The plot, writing, characterisation, and acting was fantastic and definitely the best SGA ep so far.

What enthralled me most about it, was, that we got to see the working minds behind some of the wraith. They are intelligent, forthright and honourable…it appears, with their own kind. There are numerable moments that I enjoyed, and a few questions I’m pondering about with regards to the wraith and what I wish would have happened, and what I’d like to see in future eps.

Firstly, I would have liked to have seen this as a two-parter, as I would have loved Sheppard and Kermit (well he is green, lol) to have spent more time talking in the cells, before they found out about each other. During their time there, and whether it was due to their situation or not, but each seemed to confide in each other, and I would have loved to have seen that explored more. This would have been a great opportunity to find out more about the wraith and about Sheppard’s past. Sheppard hinted that he’d been in more than one prison, and I don’t think that it had anything to do with the times he’s been captured offwold. I also wonder how long the wraith had been there, from the sounds of it, it must have been a long time, so I wonder how many people Kolya sacrificed to be aware of the 3 hours it takes for someone to partially recover? Hmmm, hope that is explored further.

I love the fact that there was a definite bond between the two, and it definitely seemed that the wraith wouldn’t have hurt Sheppard further (if the two hadn’t escaped). The intense look in Sheppard and Kermit’s eyes at the last feeding had that sort of indication, as if it was a look of understanding that both were doing what they needed to survive, but by the end they wouldn’t give up the other (for want of a better term) to save their own skin. Does that make any sense, lol?

And who would’ve thunk that the wraith had a sense of humour, hehehe, go figure! I loved that little touch. Hearing the wraith like that reminded me a bit of the Klingons, but with the life sucking, lol.

I think JF did a great bit of job acting with his eyes, both when he was gagged, and when he was agreeing with Weir’s decision to not send Ladon to Kolya, and bless, I have to say that when he was looking at the wraith’s hand in the prison cell, and in the interrogation it showed in his expressions that he was terrified, but was willing to show the Genii that he was going to go down fighting.

And I have to say that the ending took me nicely by surprise. After hearing Kermit and John talk, I had to ask myself why he would then go and blow the whole Sheppard/Kermit alliance, until it dawned on me that he had to do to save both of them. I think Sheppard understood that in the end, and I was pleased to see that he didn’t kill off the wraith. I think I would have been very disappointed in him if he had, as I don’t think Sheppard would go against his word, and his letting Kermit go, reinforced that for me. I absolutely loved the ‘brother’ part, made my little heart want to give the wraith a cuddle, lol.

I think at the end, John was a bit nervous, not knowing what Kermit would do when he woke up. As all through the ep, John trusted him, and only once raised his weapon in the whole ep, and the fact that he gave Kermit a weapon of his own showed tremendous trust (loved that gun scene btw, hehehe). So, I was a bit surprised when Shep raised his gun, when they put Kermit onto another planet. My thinking was, it was because he didn’t know how Kermit would react, fighting instinct at all. And after hearing Kermit call John ‘Sheppard’, Shep realised that there was no danger from him, which was a nice ending. However, now that all bets are off, I wonder what’s going to happen in future eps. I wished we had got to see an infirmary scene at the end, and a bit of bonding, and wondering about how much this has changed Sheppard both physically and emotionally. You can’t go through something like that without leaving scars. So I wonder if this will change his character, and how he’ll react when he next comes across other wraith? Hmmm. I hope the writers write us a wonderful continuation of this, and that we get to see Kermit in the future. I’d love to see if all bets really are off!

Kudos, to JF, CH and Ken C. :)

Lol, after lurking for so long, I didn’t think I’d write so much, hehehe, but what’s not to say in a great ep like this. :)

Michelle05
August 27th, 2006, 06:06 PM
Weir and Ronon didn't impress me in this episode...not at all.

As far as Weir goes, I was agreeing with you. :-) I think Ronon was being Ronon, and that didn't bother me. If he'd been stoic too I would have blown a gasket.

Willow'sCat
August 27th, 2006, 06:17 PM
I know I'm in the minority for thinking the opposite about Weir. She at one point told Ladon that if it was up to her, she'd turn him over to Kolya, that it was only the laws of her country *hahaha, like she's ever let that stop her before* that was staying her hand.Surprisingly for me... that is the only thing Weir said *alluded to* in the episode I really thought was hypocritical... either that or she really believes the US is OK with everything that has transpired so far in Season 3 and in Critical Mass and in Michael... I don't' get it; is this selective picking of US policy? :S

valaCB
August 27th, 2006, 06:51 PM
Excellent episode.
I enjoy from this epiosde very much :)

Miyth
August 27th, 2006, 06:58 PM
I think it was great that they had the wraith be, in a way, a good guy. I can't help but wonder what they got planned for Kolya in the future, or if we'll ever see the wraith again. I hope so!

Mitchell82
August 27th, 2006, 07:02 PM
This was an excellent episode! I hope we see Kolya again and that Wraith. Was I the only one that thought in a few of the scenes he sounded like Conner Trinnier?

A.L.
August 27th, 2006, 07:49 PM
Surprisingly for me... that is the only thing Weir said *alluded to* in the episode I really thought was hypocritical... either that or she really believes the US is OK with everything that has transpired so far in Season 3 and in Critical Mass and in Michael... I don't' get it; is this selective picking of US policy? :S

If you'll remember, the IOA who is in charge of making sure the Atlanteans stick to the rules, approved of the tests. I don't agree with the tests being done - not the finest hour in my opinion - but that was the whole argument in No Man's Land. They gave Weir the go ahead and then wanted to make her the scapegoat. No one said these were easy decisions, and frankly I'm displeased with how some of the writing has gone in those epi's - but I think it goes to show that impossible situations can bring out parts of ourselves we didn't think existed. It's a scary thought but true. How far would we go when pushed. And perhaps it was her experiences in the past that convinced her not to give in. She'd seen what had happened in those situations and I believe it affected her greatly. Not to mention, Sheppard told her not to. Even after the first feeding he seemed to agree that she was doing the right thing by not giving in. And as was pointed out by someone else, had she given into the trade it could have made things a thousand times worse. She and her people would now be open targets for blackmail by any enemies. Not to mention, if she gave Ladon over and he was killed by Kolya - as I think we can all safely assume he would have been - then Kolya would have taken over the Genii and the Atlanteans would have gone from a peaceful alliance to an all out war any time they stepped through the gate where Genii were.

I agree that there are some continuity flaws in this show at times - no one's perfect - but I think in this instance, they pulled it off quite well. Elizabeth stuck to her guns even though it was the last thing she wanted to do.

I still think this epi was great.

AL

Fatewarns
August 27th, 2006, 10:20 PM
great episode

bluealien
August 27th, 2006, 10:28 PM
Overall an excellent episode and kudos to Joe Flanigan. He pulled off an amazing performance. The scenes between him and the Wraith were excellent.

Weir didn't impress me in the slightest. Her negotiation skills are still as mediocre as always. She didn't even try to stall Koyla or offer up any other solution to gain more time for Sheppard. How lucky for her that Laden turned out to be a nice guy otherwise Sheppard was toast and now suddenly we are ment to believe she follows some moral code.

Liked how we see a different side to the Wraith and the writers are not sticking with the premise that all Wraith are evil. This was a nice follow up to Michael. Koyla was good here and I look forward to the next confrontation between him and Sheppard.

Common Ground is pretty much up there with Sateda.

9/10

Fazulina
August 27th, 2006, 10:30 PM
This episode was great. The characters made a big progress, especially Weir and Carson, who is not any more this sweet frightened doctor ... he is now much more sovereign... Weir acted like a cold negotiator, I was very surprised.
And Sheppard, my favourite character, I suffered with him:-).
Ronon showed his big loyality with Sheppard and I like it.

smushybird
August 27th, 2006, 10:33 PM
Surprisingly for me... that is the only thing Weir said *alluded to* in the episode I really thought was hypocritical... either that or she really believes the US is OK with everything that has transpired so far in Season 3 and in Critical Mass and in Michael... I don't' get it; is this selective picking of US policy? :S

Exactly. She's still so inconsistently written, so from one extreme to the other, her characterization is a mess. The writers need to get on the same page regarding what she's about. I think she's the most ineffectively written character on SGA.

FallenAngelII
August 27th, 2006, 11:06 PM
Not Evil?? Not sure, they are definately becoming less 2 dememsional though.

But one should remember the fable about the frog & the scorpion:

A scorpion and a frog meet on the bank of a stream and the
scorpion asks the frog to carry him across on its back. The
frog asks, "How do I know you won't sting me?" The scorpion
says, "Because if I do, I will die too."

The frog is satisfied, and they set out, but in midstream,
the scorpion stings the frog. The frog feels the onset of
paralysis and starts to sink, knowing they both will drown,
but has just enough time to gasp "Why?"

Replies the scorpion: "Its my nature..."

It's in his nature to kill even if he gets killed himself.

That is not in Wraith nature. In fact, this episode showed just the opposite. He didn't have to give Sheppard the Gift of Life. But he did because he'd promised to not let him die.

Dorka
August 28th, 2006, 12:38 AM
My thoughts:

I LOVED this episode. I was a big Fan of TRW, so I thought, "okay, the following episode might won't be as good" but I have to say it was. While TRW was a great Character Episode for Elizabeth, Common Ground was one for Sheppard. We didn't get to know about his past too much, but it really helped to get to "feel" the character more. I liked Sheppard before, but now I LOVE him *g*, he showed new sides of him, and Joe did a wonderful acting!

I don't know why so many people are picking on Elizabeth. When she's strong and diplomatic, thats the problem and when she is weak and personal, then that it is *grmpf*
I liked her in this episode. She showed strengh, and she made a desision by her own, even if that meant to risk Sheppards life. She knew what John wanted her to do, and she followed her older ideals. And no deals with terrorists aren't a new thing either! Everything grave she've decided before, was with the agreement of the us-IOA, so it's not only her to blame, plus John had the same stand like her and he was ecplicitly supporting her in every decision, as he said, so I don't see why some of you are only criticizing Elizabeth!

Loved the "character-developement" of the Wraith. Makes me more then curious about the continuing episodes, they are now getting a face, and aren't only the EVIL-Guys

I was really asking myself why Rodney was on that rescue-mission...I mean he even shut a mouse *headdesk* not that it wasn't funny, but well not very realistic... I even wondered about Carson, I would have said, he at least stays outside the building and only gets in when it's clear...well they needed screentime I guess :D

A little thing... don't know if someone already mentioned it, but that german guy in the background had his German patch the other way round on his arms...the costume designer should have takend care of that!

Teyla's decolté is getting deeper and deeper, I don't think that someone should wear such a T-shirt to work *coughs* Male-directors *rolleyes* :D :D

I'd give 9/10 points for this episode ;)

Willow'sCat
August 28th, 2006, 02:32 AM
If you'll remember, the IOA who is in charge of making sure the Atlanteans stick to the rules, approved of the tests. I don't agree with the tests being done - not the finest hour in my opinion - but that was the whole argument in No Man's Land. :S Wasn't that more just backpedaling by TPTB; we didn't actually hear at the time did we that they were OK with it? I don't always pay that much attention when Weir is on screen so I could have missed it.... and besides it shows my point the IOA are not the USA, so why is it so important in this ep to bring up what the USA has as policy... it makes no real sense to me. :cool:

VashtiB
August 28th, 2006, 02:38 AM
Definately one of the best episodes, picked up what the Wraith was gonna do pretty early on unfortunately, hate being able to guess what's coming up so well.

Still would not trust the Genai. They are soooo dodgy. Love how they are starting to explore the mindset of the Wratih and their capabilities. I am finding I am hating them less and less as I get to know them more. They are starting to seem like any other species that is trying to get on in life.

bluealien
August 28th, 2006, 02:55 AM
:S Wasn't that more just backpedaling by TPTB; we didn't actually hear at the time did we that they were OK with it? I don't always pay that much attention when Weir is on screen so I could have missed it.... and besides it shows my point the IOA are not the USA, so why is it so important in this ep to bring up what the USA has as policy... it makes no real sense to me. :cool:

The writers definitely did some backpedaling in No Mans Land when we are conveniently told that the IOA were behind all of Weirs decisions. I think the writers were aware that her character was looking bad because of her decision making and it helped to say that even the IOA agreed with her.

It seemed a bit similar in CG - Weir has displayed a lack of any moral code or ethics in quite a few episodes so now the writers are trying to portray her in a much better moral standing. She will not sacrifice Laden even to save Sheppards life. This is fine but unfortunatley inconsistant as to how she has been portrayed in the past. My other problem with her was once again she displayed a complete lack of negotiation skills. Each time Koyla ordered Sheppard to be fed on she didn't even attempt to stall him or offer up ANY kind of suggestions. She just bows her head without a word.

I'm not sure I would trust any of the Genii either and it was convenient that Laden was being so co operative here.

Sheppard and the Wraith interaction were the highlights of the ep for me. It was a wonderful insight into them and it was nice seeing them as more than just one dementional villians.
I hope we get more Sheppard centric episodes as he really came across as the star of the show in Common Ground.

Dorka
August 28th, 2006, 03:38 AM
It seemed a bit similar in CG - Weir has displayed a lack of any moral code or ethics in quite a few episodes so now the writers are trying to portray her in a much better moral standing. She will not sacrifice Laden even to save Sheppards life. This is fine but unfortunatley inconsistant as to how she has been portrayed in the past. My other problem with her was once again she displayed a complete lack of negotiation skills. Each time Koyla ordered Sheppard to be fed on she didn't even attempt to stall him or offer up ANY kind of suggestions. She just bows her head without a word.


Well I think as a diplomat you also have to have a big knowledge of people... I'm sure she knew, that it doesn't count with what she comes up, Kolya wouldn't like it...unless it would be Atlantis or all their Puddle Jumpers etc. but that's exactly what they are defending. Kolya only WANTED Laden because of pure revenge, there's nothing you could trade with that! Plus I'm not sure, if Elizabeth would have given them Laden, he would have really released John. I think the same revenge lies there in the Kolya/John realtionship, he would have killed him anyway!

Southern Red
August 28th, 2006, 04:01 AM
:S Wasn't that more just backpedaling by TPTB; we didn't actually hear at the time did we that they were OK with it? I don't always pay that much attention when Weir is on screen so I could have missed it.... and besides it shows my point the IOA are not the USA, so why is it so important in this ep to bring up what the USA has as policy... it makes no real sense to me. :cool:

Perhaps if you paid more attention to her, you would understand her character better. Just a helpful hint. ;)



The writers definitely did some backpedaling in No Mans Land when we are conveniently told that the IOA were behind all of Weirs decisions. I think the writers were aware that her character was looking bad because of her decision making and it helped to say that even the IOA agreed with her.

It seemed a bit similar in CG - Weir has displayed a lack of any moral code or ethics in quite a few episodes so now the writers are trying to portray her in a much better moral standing. She will not sacrifice Laden even to save Sheppards life. This is fine but unfortunatley inconsistant as to how she has been portrayed in the past. My other problem with her was once again she displayed a complete lack of negotiation skills. Each time Koyla ordered Sheppard to be fed on she didn't even attempt to stall him or offer up ANY kind of suggestions. She just bows her head without a word.

I'm not sure I would trust any of the Genii either and it was convenient that Laden was being so co operative here.

Sheppard and the Wraith interaction were the highlights of the ep for me. It was a wonderful insight into them and it was nice seeing them as more than just one dementional villians.
I hope we get more Sheppard centric episodes as he really came across as the star of the show in Common Ground.

If you believe the writers are trying to repair the damage they have done to the character, then why not give her the benefit of the doubt when said repair shows up on screen? Your continued criticism even when she does the opposite of what she has done before is puzzling. And it was made clear in this episode that 1. We don't negotiate with terrorists. At all. and 2. As military commander and the guy whose life was on the line, Sheppard ordered her not to comply. Later she even said if it had been up to her things would have been different.

bluealien
August 28th, 2006, 05:03 AM
If you believe the writers are trying to repair the damage they have done to the character, then why not give her the benefit of the doubt when said repair shows up on screen? Your continued criticism even when she does the opposite of what she has done before is puzzling.

I have no problem with the writers trying to repair the damage - I would just like them to do it consistently. Weir has displayed pretty much no moral standards on many occasions, ie torture, experimentation, killing humans and destroying entire cities - so now she is spouting moral standards when it is just one life. I hope the writers continue to show her character displaying some sort of moral code or at least showing there is a of line that she will not cross. I found it interesting that she accused Koyla of crossing the line but it could also be said that she has also crossed a line. It seems that the good guys can do what they want to survive but the bad guys are evil monsters if they display the same attributes.


And it was made clear in this episode that 1. We don't negotiate with terrorists. At all. and 2. As military commander and the guy whose life was on the line, Sheppard ordered her not to comply. Later she even said if it had been up to her things would have been different.

I didn't expect her to comply with terrorists and I am fully aware that this was made clear but I expected her to show us a bit more of her negotiating experience and at least put up some sort of stalling technique to try and save Sheppards life. I also know that Sheppard ordered her not to comply but I don't know what you mean that if it was up to her that things would have been different. The decision was up to her - she did not have to obey Sheppards orders as she is the leader and she stated this.

Chailyn
August 28th, 2006, 05:26 AM
Originally Posted by Willow'sCat
Surprisingly for me... that is the only thing Weir said *alluded to* in the episode I really thought was hypocritical... either that or she really believes the US is OK with everything that has transpired so far in Season 3 and in Critical Mass and in Michael... I don't' get it; is this selective picking of US policy?


What makes you sure that the US wouldn't be okay with it? After all Stargate started because


O'Neill was ordered to blow a planet, a populated planet, with a nuke if there was any sort of hostile force. He was given those orders from the US government regardless of whether there was an innocent civilian population, which shows that when it comes to the Earth race v. an alien race, Earth is going to protect its own.


I think that if the whole Alantis project was publically revealed the large majority of Earth would be fine with their decisions, in fact I'm guessing that people would be upset that more wasn't done to destroy the Wraith. People like knowing that they won't be eaten. That's my assumption, of course

I think a lot of the problem people have with Weir/Atlantis, which this episode again demonstrates, is based on their own moral code. Some of Weir's decisions have offended personal "moral codes", so her decisions are called stupid. While others are completely fine with the decisions and want Atlantis to continue in the direction that they're going. I agree that Weir's character hasn't always been consistent over 3 seasons, but let's call a duck a duck. Didn't morally agree with a decision...fine. Doesn't automatically make it stupid.

I think that Weir not handing over Laden wasn't anything new. Whenever she's done something, let's say morally gray, it has always involved the saftey of Atlantis/Earth. Koyla ready to kill Sheppard doesn't fulfill that requirement. She's not going to hand over an ally leader, which could destabilize the Genii and create a true problem for Earth, just to save her military commander. I think this decision again shows that Weir's very pragmatic in an almost survivalist way.

Anyway, I loved this episode. I'm impressed so far.

Southern Red
August 28th, 2006, 06:57 AM
I didn't expect her to comply with terrorists and I am fully aware that this was made clear but I expected her to show us a bit more of her negotiating experience and at least put up some sort of stalling technique to try and save Sheppards life. I also know that Sheppard ordered her not to comply but I don't know what you mean that if it was up to her that things would have been different. The decision was up to her - she did not have to obey Sheppards orders as she is the leader and she stated this.

Here's a bit from the transcript:


LADON: Do you think I don't know the real reason you're keeping me here?

WEIR: You are a head of state. It was John Sheppard's last order that we do not submit to Kolya's demands, and it is my own country's policy to never yield to terrorists. Those are the reasons you're still here, Mr Radim. Because believe me, if it was simply my choice ...

LADON: I understand.

WEIR: Good.

She lists a number of reasons why it's not her choice and it sounds like Sheppard's authority overrides hers here. They seem to be getting more and more away from having her as the supreme authority and more toward joint leadership. In Progeny he let her make the decisions as it was a diplomatic situation. Just my thoughts, but as Chailyn pointed out, I think it depends on your moral code. Me, I come from a long line of military and agree with their thinking. And I think not negotiating means exactly that. You don't even start a dialogue with terrorists.

stubadingdong
August 28th, 2006, 07:19 AM
I have no problem with the writers trying to repair the damage - I would just like them to do it consistently. Weir has displayed pretty much no moral standards on many occasions, ie torture, experimentation, killing humans and destroying entire cities - so now she is spouting moral standards when it is just one life. I hope the writers continue to show her character displaying some sort of moral code or at least showing there is a of line that she will not cross. I found it interesting that she accused Koyla of crossing the line but it could also be said that she has also crossed a line. It seems that the good guys can do what they want to survive but the bad guys are evil monsters if they display the same attributes.

If you have no problem with the writers "repairing" Weir's oh so damaged ethical code, why not let them? They have to start somewhere, right? And this situation was not life-threatening for anyone but Sheppard. The other situations you listed have Atlantis directly effected.



I didn't expect her to comply with terrorists and I am fully aware that this was made clear but I expected her to show us a bit more of her negotiating experience and at least put up some sort of stalling technique to try and save Sheppards life.

She's not negotiating with Kolya, period, therefore TPTB aren't going to show her skills. There's nothing to negotiate. On Sheppard's orders she is to not do anything. However, Weir was doing something. With Ladon's help, they located the planet. Granted, Sheppard escaped before they could rescue him, but the fact remains that they were looking for him. They weren't just sitting on the couch, wringing their hands and planning Shep's funeral.



I also know that Sheppard ordered her not to comply but I don't know what you mean that if it was up to her that things would have been different. The decision was up to her - she did not have to obey Sheppards orders as she is the leader and she stated this.

If it was up to Weir, she'd have handed Ladon over immediately to save Sheppard and started not only a civil war in the Genii population, but lost an ally (one of the only ones they have, for those complaining about not having enough) in the process. So if Weir had handed over Ladon to save Sheppard, she'd have really screwed the pooch and everyone would have every right to complain about her. But she didn't. She stuck by her country's policy (and many others) of not negotiating with terrorists. The decision she made was to let Sheppard's expertise rule this situation. Though she would have done these things anyway, as stated in the episode. She may not like having to watch him die, but it would have been one dead versus hundreds or thousands of Genii. And then you could have complained even more about Weir killing off civilizations.

Linzi
August 28th, 2006, 07:29 AM
I think it was Weir's decision not to negotiate with Kolya, she said it was out of Sheppard's hands and was her decision, and as such she made the only logical choice she could. As a leader she has to weigh up the situation and progress as she feels the authorities on Earth would want her to. You don't negotiate with terrorists, no matter the personal cost. Depsite her feelings here, she could only go down that path. How unprofessional would it be to let your compassion for a friend interfere with your job andthe well being of many others? Hundreds of other lives could be at stake, as well as civil war and the loss of a tentative alliance. So whether one likes Weir or not, or agrees with her decision here, I personally don't see what else she could have done.

maxbo
August 28th, 2006, 07:50 AM
This episode had a lot to live up to and it didn’t disappoint. So far, this has been a very good season for John Sheppard and if the writers continue to write episodes like this, it will also be a very good season for SGA in general. The key to this episode is not just a well-written Sheppard, but also well-written guest characters. The Genii continue to be the best all around villains of the series and I love that Ladon wasn’t pushed aside now that Kolya’s back. Having these two strong, focused, ruthless, but different, characters in the mix should continue to generate interesting future storylines.

The other incredible guest character, the imprisoned Wraith, is the type of Wraith that’s been sorely needed for quite some time. Although I loved the promise of what the Wraith could become in Season 1, I became bored with them for much of Season 2. With the exception of Elia (sp?), Michael and the wraith in Allies, for most of Season 2 the Wraith were just these nameless, faceless, hissing, growling blobs. Boring. That’s why the addition of Wraith worshipers was so ridiculous to me because TPTB never showed us why any human would want to worship them. That is until Common Ground.

From the beginning there seemed to be something a bit different about this Wraith and I don’t know if it was because he just was different or if being imprisoned for so long altered his perceptions somewhat. Whatever the reason, he appeared to almost imprint himself to Sheppard and treat him as an equal. Perhaps because Sheppard was the first sentient being that he’d been able to somewhat freely interact with in a long time. His behavior toward Sheppard gave me a bit of insight into how Wraith possibly interact with each other and it was refreshing to realize that “there is much about Wraith that we don’t know”.

This Sheppard was the character that I found so interesting in Season 1. It was good to see him back. His frustration, his fear and his strength were evident throughout. That first scene, before his SGA friends, where he didn’t know what to expect was typical Sheppard, he knew whatever was coming wasn’t going to be good and that he was probably going to die painfully, but he wanted to make sure that his friends didn’t endanger themselves trying to save him. The next scenes where he (and his SGA friends) knew what to expect were very difficult to watch and kudos to Joe Flanigan, etc., for making these scenes so gripping.

It was good to see Carson in this episode and with his retrovirus experience, he was the best chance Sheppard had of survival so it made sense that he would insist on being the first doctor on the scene. Ronon was as aggressive and as worried as I expected him to be and his sound of frustration, pain and helplessness when he watched Sheppard get fed on again was chilling and painful to see. Elizabeth stayed firm and this was good to see and she also used her head by contacting Ladon immediately. And, the scenes where Rodney gave his Sheppard-like speech to the Marines with Beckett wondering what the hell he was doing and Teyla giving Rodney her support, followed by his little thumbs up to Elizabeth before going through the gate were hilarious and touching. Good stuff.

The only complaint I have about this episode is that TPTB continue to not write for Teyla and it’s beginning to affect my enjoyment of the series. Whenever I read fanfic with a well-written Teyla, I can’t help wondering why the professionals have so much difficulty writing for her. If the current writers can’t write for the character then I wish they would hire new writers who can.

smushybird
August 28th, 2006, 09:09 AM
My thoughts:
I don't know why so many people are picking on Elizabeth. When she's strong and diplomatic, thats the problem and when she is weak and personal, then that it is *grmpf* John had the same stand like her and he was ecplicitly supporting her in every decision, as he said, so I don't see why some of you are only criticizing Elizabeth!


You seem to be taking it personally. I'm not criticizing a real person here, I'm criticizing the way a fictional character is being written. Weir has the potential to be a good character, but from week to week she's written as a totally different personality who makes decisions that the Weir the week before wouldn't have made but the Weir six weeks before would have made...etc. John isn't written entirely consistently either, but at least he's doing better than Weir. Whether John supported her decision in this episode is irrelevant. The point, at least to me, isn't whether she made a good or bad decision in this episode. It's did she make a decision Weir would have made? And at this point, it's getting difficult to even answer that question, because I'm still wondering-- who is Weir and what would she do? She's turning into Sybil. Maybe they should have left her in the sanitarium. :p

Hermiod
August 28th, 2006, 09:20 AM
Great episode. It really added some dimensionality to the Wraith instead of having them as one dimensional vampire-like evil guys. It definately showed that the wraith aren't really evil but rather just like an animal following instinct. It also lead me to wonder if maybe the Wraith weren't the original aggressors in the war with the ancients since that one didnt seem too bad. Maybe the Ancients launched the first attack since from their perspective the Wraith appear evil, eating humans and all.

smushybird
August 28th, 2006, 09:25 AM
She's not negotiating with Kolya, period, therefore TPTB aren't going to show her skills.

There are ways of showing your skills besides negotiation. She should've lied her ass off to Kolya to stall for time for Sheppard. She should've showed a little imagination and aggressiveness at it, too, instead of thinking she was being tough and responsible just by standing there saying no over and over again while Sheppard was killed by inches. It would have made her character more interesting (and at least a little more in tune with the way the writers have changed Weir in the past year) to see her try to bluff Kolya or manipulate him or something, for pete's sake. Show some craftiness, Weir! And for anyone who thinks she's too upright and straightforward for that--God knows she's quick enough to compromise her principles for other reasons in other episodes. Certainly lying to Kolya is no worse than anything she's done before, and certainly viewers would have been cheering her on if she'd made a wily, daring attempt to spare Sheppard some of that torture.

Jwizzman
August 28th, 2006, 10:55 AM
pretty good ep, the mystery voice being a wraith was too predectable, good thing it didn't drag on for too long and switched to good-episode-mode very soon

expendable_crewman
August 28th, 2006, 11:14 AM
If you have no problem with the writers "repairing" Weir's oh so damaged ethical code, why not let them? They have to start somewhere, right? And this situation was not life-threatening for anyone but Sheppard. The other situations you listed have Atlantis directly effected.

She's not negotiating with Kolya, period, therefore TPTB aren't going to show her skills. There's nothing to negotiate. On Sheppard's orders she is to not do anything. However, Weir was doing something. With Ladon's help, they located the planet. Granted, Sheppard escaped before they could rescue him, but the fact remains that they were looking for him. They weren't just sitting on the couch, wringing their hands and planning Shep's funeral.

If it was up to Weir, she'd have handed Ladon over immediately to save Sheppard and started not only a civil war in the Genii population, but lost an ally (one of the only ones they have, for those complaining about not having enough) in the process. So if Weir had handed over Ladon to save Sheppard, she'd have really screwed the pooch and everyone would have every right to complain about her. But she didn't. She stuck by her country's policy (and many others) of not negotiating with terrorists. The decision she made was to let Sheppard's expertise rule this situation. Though she would have done these things anyway, as stated in the episode. She may not like having to watch him die, but it would have been one dead versus hundreds or thousands of Genii. And then you could have complained even more about Weir killing off civilizations.Good points. It may be my background in the military, but it never occurred to me that Kolya would let Sheppard go. The writer did not have the characters question this, so maybe it was me.

However, Kolya ("It's not personal") got a little twitch of a smile during feeding # 2. This was the guy who shot down two security staff in The Storm before he said hello. Kolya put together an elaborate operation to punish Ladim's "betrayal" as a form of revenge. Someone wrote there are no microwaves, no ovens, and no stoves in Kolya's house. Kolya likes his revenge ice cold. Sheppard cost Kolya his reputation among the Genii leadership. Sheppard killed -- I counted once and now I forget-- over sixty Genii in The Eye.

Maybe if there was a debate in the ep ... "Will Kolya even let Sheppard go?" ... said discission would have lessened the tension created in the episode by Weir's having to choose. And so the episode didn't go there.

Weir chose correctly.

The supposed exchange would have been a tactical nightmare and with Stargates involved a completely different episode.

IMO, Sheppard's only way out was escape or rescue.