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stubadingdong
August 28th, 2006, 12:23 PM
There are ways of showing your skills besides negotiation. She should've lied her ass off to Kolya to stall for time for Sheppard. She should've showed a little imagination and aggressiveness at it, too, instead of thinking she was being tough and responsible just by standing there saying no over and over again while Sheppard was killed by inches. It would have made her character more interesting (and at least a little more in tune with the way the writers have changed Weir in the past year) to see her try to bluff Kolya or manipulate him or something, for pete's sake. Show some craftiness, Weir!

What is she going to say to Kolya? How is she supposed to stall for time exactly? Give me an example of how and what it would have accomplished. Because maybe the writers thought of that and couldn't come up with anything plausible. I have to give them the benefit of the doubt. Then again, it never occurred to me that she could have done it any other way.


And for anyone who thinks she's too upright and straightforward for that--God knows she's quick enough to compromise her principles for other reasons in other episodes. Certainly lying to Kolya is no worse than anything she's done before, and certainly viewers would have been cheering her on if she'd made a wily, daring attempt to spare Sheppard some of that torture.

If she'd done that, people would have labeled her as "too emotional" and not worthy of being a leader. They would have called it a stupid decision (I would have been one of them). No one said being a diplomat was easy and certainly not in an unfamiliar place where people don't operate under the same rules you were trained under.

I think she did exactly the right thing. This character is in a no-win situation for some fans and I accept that. I don't understand it, but I accept it.

mtee1958
August 28th, 2006, 01:23 PM
I think it was a fabulous episode. I loved Shep and thought his relationship with the Wraith was really interesting and one you wouldn't think would happen. Kudos for taking that turn and of course the very interesting twist of giving life back.

Now here's where I hope I don't have to rant later on -- but they, the writers, better make mention of what happened in other eps. There HAS to be some repercussion to Shep's psyche. He was fed on several times and if they don't at least refer back to that in some way in some ep - they should be fired.

Shep's strong and all but if they think we won't find it odd that he's just find and dandy and not having nightmares or at least flinches the next time he sees a Wraith -- then they are totally out of touch with their viewers.

Let's hope this isn't the end and everyone is just peachy on Atlantis.

Annubis' hitman
August 28th, 2006, 05:15 PM
Good episode.

I thought it added depth to the wraith that was needed.

It also brought back the old kick butt wraith we like to see.

I give it a 8/10

Willow'sCat
August 28th, 2006, 05:34 PM
Perhaps if you paid more attention to her, you would understand her character better. Just a helpful hint. Oh I tried that but I fell asleep... missed too much McKay; had to go back to skipping her bits. :mckay: :rolleyes:


1. We don't negotiate with terrorists. At all. and 2. As military commander and the guy whose life was on the line, Sheppard ordered her not to comply. Later she even said if it had been up to her things would have been different.Well that is not entirely true; but hey we all forget... and not all counties hold that view anyway. Surely some in the IOA might think differently...and really is Koyla a terrorists? :S Not my call.

What makes you sure that the US wouldn't be okay with it?Heehee, believe me when I say I know they would be fine and dandy with it in some quarters of the US; but is it policy? :cool: What Weir said IMHO was for *our* benefit not for Laden's; lets be honest does Laden give a fig what the US policy is? No. :cool:

Chailyn
August 28th, 2006, 07:32 PM
Oh I tried that but I fell asleep... missed too much McKay; had to go back to skipping her bits.

I love me some McKay too. :)

I thought it was great that Rodney didn't seem to have any fear at all when talking to Koyla. He called the man on his lies and asked the hard questions in his less than tactful manner. I loved how he, Weir, and Koyla were bouncing off each other when they were determining the rules of Sheppard's communication. It seemed pretty natural among the actors.

I would have liked to have seen more from Teyla though. Ronon's the tough, angry one, so I expected that reaction from him, but Teyla didn't seem to react at all. She was just there. Maybe I missed something? I'll have to rewatch it. She just seems to get lost in the episodes anymore. I don't know what TPTB are trying to do with her character. Maybe the writers don't like her much? :S

ladysarah
August 28th, 2006, 07:36 PM
What Weir said IMHO was for *our* benefit not for Laden's; lets be honest does Laden give a fig what the US policy is? No. :cool:

At this point I'm wondering why even Weir cares. It's an International expedition, Weir's isn't a represenative of the US, she's a representative of Earth, and we all know that the US policy (especially currently) and international policy (as laid down by the UN) isn't the same thing, not by a long shot.

But either way, Weir does what Weir wants, from week to week, without any type of consistency, she may as well roll dice for every decision she makes, it make as much sense as anything she's done over the last two seasons.

And in case you're wondering, no, I don't like Weir, I don't like how she's written. And I don't think there is any way her character can be rehabilitated. Her reputation has been damaged too much.

vaberella
August 28th, 2006, 08:25 PM
Exactly. She's still so inconsistently written, so from one extreme to the other, her characterization is a mess. The writers need to get on the same page regarding what she's about. I think she's the most ineffectively written character on SGA.
I have to agree with this point completely. She is the most badly written character, hence the reason I understand the need for her to be written up in this season, unfortunatley until this episdoe and after Critical Mass in the last season----she was written at her worst. I felt this one was on equal pairing with CM.
Of course there's inconsistencies, but shoot, I felt she did well enough and definitely better than what she pulled off in NML and Mis---which annoyed and p'd me off or the disaster that was Progeny for her. TRW---was straight up yawn fest, this was a zest of life to her and her response was understandable for me and made sense. I had to give her a round of applause.

I'm sure there will be a few more eps where I'll be like, 'Not again, Weir. Not again!!' but until then, this was a great ep for her and I got no complaints. My only complaint was the lack of Teyla usage and the pointlessness of Carson's face, but no lines. Talk to me the importance of that. They give more love, in this ep, to the character really disconnected from everyone since he's not really part of the team team, dynamic, but not to the character who would be the most affected by something like this happening to her team mate.

Doesn't make sense, people....it doesn't make sense at all!


:mckay::teyla::sheppard:
Yum, Yum, Teyla in McShep-Kabob!

RoryJ
August 29th, 2006, 06:03 AM
Good points. It may be my background in the military, but it never occurred to me that Kolya would let Sheppard go. The writer did not have the characters question this, so maybe it was me.

However, Kolya ("It's not personal") got a little twitch of a smile during feeding # 2. This was the guy who shot down two security staff in The Storm before he said hello. Kolya put together an elaborate operation to punish Ladim's "betrayal" as a form of revenge. Someone wrote there are no microwaves, no ovens, and no stoves in Kolya's house. Kolya likes his revenge ice cold. Sheppard cost Kolya his reputation among the Genii leadership. Sheppard killed -- I counted once and now I forget-- over sixty Genii in The Eye.

Maybe if there was a debate in the ep ... "Will Kolya even let Sheppard go?" ... said discission would have lessened the tension created in the episode by Weir's having to choose. And so the episode didn't go there.

Weir chose correctly.

The supposed exchange would have been a tactical nightmare and with Stargates involved a completely different episode.

IMO, Sheppard's only way out was escape or rescue.

In complete agreement. Kolya is an incredibly smart man; he would know in a flash if Weir were stalling, just like he knew in a flash that Ladon was already on Atlantis. Weir can't play this man, and I don't think Sheppard can either. Theirs was a situation where Sheppard had to save himself because Kolya wasn't going to be tricked (apparently, the dumb Genii guards are not as cool as Kolya :cool:).

As to why Weir would follow U.S. policy, I would think it's because she still reports to the Pentagon and the President in addition to the IOA (and let's face it, she doesn't really care for the IOA). I was actually very surprised with Weir - the took a hard military line in this episode, along with a diplomatic one as well (and no, military thinking and diplomatic thinking are NOT mutally exclusive). She did, IMO, that absoluetly right thing by not even beginning a dialogue. Kolya would NOT have let Sheppard go, and they BOTH knew that. Negotiating with him and risking the lives of the expedition and of the Genii people just wasn't acceptable. I know it's a hot-issue word to be throwing around these days, but I'd say Kolya IS a terrorist - he uses fear and terror as a political weapon (against Ladon and Weir). And Weir just can't go down that road with Kolya.


They give more love, in this ep, to the character really disconnected from everyone since he's not really part of the team team, dynamic,

And it was a good chance to see Ronon react and meld more into the team. I do agree that they, once again, wasted good use of Teyla in this episode, though.

ashiee
August 29th, 2006, 08:04 AM
I think people sometimes forget that Weir is the leader of atlantis, means that she has responsibility to make all her people save and if does means she needs to take some uneasy discussion like sacrifice a dear friend, I think thats a real life problem, it sucks but it happened.

Remember that the situation was different in "The Storm/The Eye" when Sheppard wont let Weir and McKay died, he done that - even offer to give a puddle jumper because atlantis actually was -literally- dead city. all staffs and personnels were transfered to another planet, so they safe, no one in trouble beside them. So, it totally different situations. (btw I just realised when writing this that actually Sheppard was going to blow the atlantis anyway when he heard weir died - mckay is still alive, but he did not want to trade that time... perhaps because in his mind he could not trust Kolya)

One thing that pops up in my mind is that the episode actually shows how weir and sheppard - the two leaders of atlantis - actually understand each other's mind. Weir understand that Sheppard knows that Kolya is going to cheat anyway so she knows she can not negotiate with Kolya (relate with 'The Storm/The Eye" again, I think Sheppard dont believe Kolya's credibility again after the incident with 'weir died (again?') and Sheppard knows that Weir will try to save him in other way (remember what he said to the wraith?)

If anything comes out from this episode is a stronger bond of the two leaders here. Which may pops up again during "Irresponsible" when kolya will make another appearance - then I am wondering which role weir and sheppard play... the victim or the negotiator?

The Ori
August 29th, 2006, 08:10 PM
Thought it was a very good ep, I'm getting hooked onto Atlantis more and more, but still am a bit dosgy about Ronan!!

expendable_crewman
August 29th, 2006, 08:23 PM
One thing that pops up in my mind is that the episode actually shows how weir and sheppard - the two leaders of atlantis - actually understand each other's mind.I was thinking the same thing. I didn't realize Sheppard could hear her say "No" to Kolya until I saw Sheppard in the background nodding to the camera.

"My friends are coming," he kept saying, or something to that extent, to the Wraith. So he knew, too, she was going to work at saving him that way.

The episode was near perfection. Now, if I wasn't missing Teyla's part on the "reaction front line" so much, I could rank the episode as my all-time favorite.

However, the Wraith / Sheppard scenes were priceless. Heyerdahl and Flanigan were amazing.

Wonder
August 29th, 2006, 08:28 PM
I loved the episode all the way!:) :)

white noise
August 30th, 2006, 12:18 AM
I’m sorry, but I gotta comment about this. I am a Teyla fan here, after all.

About Teyla's boobies (and there's a sentence I never expected to type), can we please put things in proportion? (No pun intended, of course.) Yes, she has a great body. Yes, the PTB obviously like to show it off, but that does not automatically qualify her as nothing but eye-candy. While her role in this season has largely been diminished to the background, her character still has depth. Yes, that’s my story and I’m sticking to it. She is not all about boobies.

I still have faith that TPTB will remember this fact.

That is all.

if you have a great show, with good plotting, acting, ect., you don't need to flash clevage all the time. it puts me in mind of those cruddy vampire movies that cost $1.50 to make! cheap shots!!! nuts to that! why should she have to meat for the "guys" to gaga over. she needs to kick them in the head a few times and tell them to kiss her grits! talk about explotation!

mywraithcommander
August 30th, 2006, 12:40 AM
I loved the episode! The story was just great!:)

expendable_crewman
August 30th, 2006, 02:54 AM
if you have a great show, with good plotting, acting, ect., you don't need to flash clevage all the time. it puts me in mind of those cruddy vampire movies that cost $1.50 to make! cheap shots!!! nuts to that! why should she have to meat for the "guys" to gaga over. she needs to kick them in the head a few times and tell them to kiss her grits! talk about explotation!I've gotten used to her wardrobe. I don't know if that's good or bad. :eek:

However ...

On behalf of the women of SGA fandom, I formally request the PTBs for equal time.

Here was a script with plenty of opportunity to show Sheppard's chest and it would *not* have been, um, pointless.

We saw more of Teyla's skin than Sheppard's and he was the one being fed upon.

I'm just sayin'. What's fair is fair.

Linzi
August 30th, 2006, 03:30 AM
I've gotten used to her wardrobe. I don't know if that's good or bad. :eek:

However ...

On behalf of the women of SGA fandom, I formally request the PTBs for equal time.

Here was a script with plenty of opportunity to show Sheppard's chest and it would *not* have been, um, pointless.

We saw more of Teyla's skin than Sheppard's and he was the one being fed upon.

I'm just sayin'. What's fair is fair.
I totally agree. More should have been made of the wraith feeding scars. At the very least, Sheppard's shirt should've had holes in it, or rips. There should've been more blood too. It would've been nice if the Wraith had ripped open Sheppard's shirt. Just as a nod to Sumners feeding scene. I also know at least one thunker who's had bare chested Shep in an episode on her wish list since 38 Minutes was aired..Elinor, where are you??

MB.Eddie
August 30th, 2006, 06:16 AM
Awesome episode.

I like the Genni episodes, and think they make good villians, especialyl Kolya.

The whole gift of life thing at the end was very interesting as well :cool:

RoryJ
August 30th, 2006, 06:21 AM
On behalf of the women of SGA fandom, I formally request the PTBs for equal time.

Here was a script with plenty of opportunity to show Sheppard's chest and it would *not* have been, um, pointless.

We saw more of Teyla's skin than Sheppard's and he was the one being fed upon.

I'm just sayin'. What's fair is fair.

With this I'm inclined to agree. (;)) Seriously, where's the equality?

Jeyla4ever
August 30th, 2006, 06:33 AM
I liked this episode a lot..Joe Flannigan was Fantastic...

the Wraith actually had me feeling sorry for him and I almost wanted to go up and hug him (holding my hand over my chest, of coarse)

Landon...I wasn't sure if I wanted to slam him up against the wall like Ronon or put my arm around him and congratulate him on betraying Koyla and actually still be alive to tell the story....which has me now thinking...why did Koyla go through so much trouble to capture John when he could have done the same thing to Landon and skip the middle man scenario? but then again....we wouldn't have had the awesome performance by all actors involved nor a story to tell in Common Ground...


Teyla...what a wonderful missed opportunity for her in this episode...I wished we had seen a more defiant and more determined side of Teyla...I got the looks of concerned...but, in all fairness.. I think both women (Weir and Teyla)were in their leadership modes...Teyla couldn't do anything cause she's not the leader of Atlantis and it isn't her place either...if you look closely she was very attentive and very supportive of Weir's actions.... she did the only thing she could do, hope and follow Weir's order...I think if she ever truly doubted Weir, she would have said so..and even when Ronon felt that by letting Landon go she was doing wrong...Teyla clearly gave Weir the benefit of the doubt..and to me that just proved that they were both being leaders...Teyla understood Weir's position and she stood by her as long as she felt that she was doing all she could do.......also, Teyla isn't the "breakdown" type...so what else could she have done?

As far as her attire...go back to Suspicion..the scene when the Athosians went through the Stargate to the mainland and I"m sure that if I go back to Rising and the other episode showing Athosian women, it will be the same...

The Athosian women are very sexy and comfortable with their sexuality, and their every day attire is proof of that...lots of cleavage and then some.....so, should we expect any less from Teyla, the Athosian Leader? of coarse not...Teyla is a very attractive woman...yet she has proven that she is more than that to the Atlantis team and to the Pegasus Galaxy...

overall, a great episode....

So, that's my story....

rosstaylor
August 30th, 2006, 08:12 AM
did this ep make ne1 think of oneil when he was being totrtured and brought back to life in the sarcophagus

vaberella
August 30th, 2006, 08:49 AM
I think people sometimes forget that Weir is the leader of atlantis, means that she has responsibility to make all her people save and if does means she needs to take some uneasy discussion like sacrifice a dear friend, I think thats a real life problem, it sucks but it happened.

Remember that the situation was different in "The Storm/The Eye" when Sheppard wont let Weir and McKay died, he done that - even offer to give a puddle jumper because atlantis actually was -literally- dead city. all staffs and personnels were transfered to another planet, so they safe, no one in trouble beside them. So, it totally different situations. (btw I just realised when writing this that actually Sheppard was going to blow the atlantis anyway when he heard weir died - mckay is still alive, but he did not want to trade that time... perhaps because in his mind he could not trust Kolya)

One thing that pops up in my mind is that the episode actually shows how weir and sheppard - the two leaders of atlantis - actually understand each other's mind. Weir understand that Sheppard knows that Kolya is going to cheat anyway so she knows she can not negotiate with Kolya (relate with 'The Storm/The Eye" again, I think Sheppard dont believe Kolya's credibility again after the incident with 'weir died (again?') and Sheppard knows that Weir will try to save him in other way (remember what he said to the wraith?)

If anything comes out from this episode is a stronger bond of the two leaders here. Which may pops up again during "Irresponsible" when kolya will make another appearance - then I am wondering which role weir and sheppard play... the victim or the negotiator?


I dont' understand what Sheppard has to do with anything here. What Weir did had nothing to do with Shep or if Kolya would cheat or not. And Kolya has always wanted one thing, and one thing only, so if you gave in, he's just harass you for more, but really nothing else. I get that the Atlantis crew was more shifty to the Genii from Underground than the other way round. The Genii just want to survive---but that's besides the point.

My focus on Weir and what I definitely know what Weir was thinkign was not in the case of Shep and not negotiating....we just dont' bloody negotiate with terrorists. I mean this is the UN and in our society at the moment that we will not negotiate with Terrorists, the last negotiation we did was with President Carter and the Ayotolla...in what? 1979-81. Or the largest and most focused one. Since then we've had a very strict regime NOT to negotiate and that's why I loved Weir here.

I've interned at the UN and I've worked for non-profits that work with the UN and based on just basic political background or those who try to stay on top of the lies of the media...you know we dont' negotiate with fools that want to have the upper hand. The way to destroy their chances is not to give them the hand at all and hence the reason we don't negotiate.

I thought FINALLY. Weir is doing what her job taught her to do. This is not Earth but she is using what she has learned and what she is skilled in doing to a situation that would be denoted as similar. Something that should have been seein in 38 minutes, Suspicion, The Tower, Michael, Progeny and countless others. It doesn't have to be right, but it's what you know and what you do within that situation.


So to say it's about having Weir and Sheppard understanding each other's mind. This is just common knowledge if you're in the political sphere, John is soldier and Weir is a negotiator/diplomat. That's what your SUPPOSED to do, it doesn't denote any deeper connection than that. This is similar to TLG where John would know that Teyla would shoot him....she was suffering along the way, but he had to know his life wasn't worth more than 2/3rds of the ex, even Caldwell and McKay knew that. It was either them or him, and she knew her duty. But I'm not gonna read a deeper connection, excluding her tortured face and agony and begging....:D But this is the same scenario---you do your duty and what is expected of you and both ladies in each of their respective cases had to do it...Teyla was a bit more emotional---since she was going to have to do it...but whatever.


Again the issue at hand was duty and that was as far as the emotion went when Weir made her decision and how she did it. She did a good job, no matter how much it would hurt her to lose a friend like that, she would do what she had to, so that Kolya knew that such tactics won't bode well for him and will not put Atlantis in a weak position. Again her performance was a 10 and that is what a leader is SUPPOSED to do, mistakes at hand or not...she did her duty based on what she learned and experienced and I thought she was bloody MAGNIFICENT!!!


if you have a great show, with good plotting, acting, ect., you don't need to flash clevage all the time. it puts me in mind of those cruddy vampire movies that cost $1.50 to make! cheap shots!!! nuts to that! why should she have to meat for the "guys" to gaga over. she needs to kick them in the head a few times and tell them to kiss her grits! talk about explotation!

What is this obsession with what the woman wears?! At this point me, thinks some people are a bit jealous. Shoot, I don't even want to hear the thoughts to what people are thinking about what I wear in real life---meeting or not. She looked fine, and I saw nothing out of the ordinary. I thought Weir was wearing a shirt that was a bit too tight, but you dont' see me whinging about it...I got a great shot of boobies on her part. But because Tey is wearing a v-neck top---which is flattering on broad shouldered women. She's said to expose too much skin? People we live in America----if Tey was wearing a thong on TV she would still be too dressed up.

Get over her clothes and focus on the characterization and what she does and her actions. Worrying about clothing doesn't develop the character--- and since Tey has been proven to be INVALUABLE to the team, and has been developed amazingly well throughout the seasons from seeing her smile to cry to what makes her tick and deck a man. I think it's safe to say that Teyla has proven herself enough that if she wore a potato sack and wear her hair like a 10 year as she did in Suspicion---you would still take her seriously. Not only that if she was around, she'd probably break a few legs and arms if she heard people care so much about her clothing. Lucky she's make believe.

Anyway I think she looked great, she didn't wear anything I wouldnt' wear, all I wanted was to see more of her and her reactions...other than that, she was the normal Teyla.

Too many jealous people...out there!! :S ;) :mckay:


:mckay::teyla::sheppard:
Teyla in a McShep Triangle!!

kaeyla
August 30th, 2006, 08:57 AM
What can i say -a brillant brillant story and how i loved how it turned out... two that should be enemies became true allies in the sense of brotherhood- is there honour among Wraith...very possibly!

The Wraith was wonderful, i cant imagine enduring what he endured. Its been a long time since a wraith like this came to our knowledge, Steve and he are of same calibre and enduring dignity. It is wonderful to know and see the Wraith not shown as only mindless killing monsters but also can chuckle.

As we already have a Michael why not call this Wraith, with respect and honour, Gabriel, after the Archangel of Death and Vengeance- which he was to those that had imprisoned him and causing him so much harm and suffering. Then again Gabriel is also the Archangel of Resurrection and Mercy, which was shown when he gave back what he took from Sheppard...with the Gift of Life and aid. I have long suspected the Gift of Life.

Oh I most definately want to see this Wraith safe and alive again through another episode, and more SGA episodes if they are all as fabulous as Common Ground.

Camy you almost want to hug a Wraith..wow i been wanting to do that for a long time now..Come join the club!
Actually when the Wraith was sat in the long woodland grass he reminded me of the perfect personification made flesh, the Pagan Green Man, the Spirit of Wild, a lord of Death, Life and Regrowth.

bluealien
August 30th, 2006, 09:59 AM
It was great to see Weir say she would stand her ground and uphold her countries moral standards and not give in to terrorists (if you want to call Koyla a terrorist) but why was this instance any differnent to any other situation she has been in.

What is the US policy against torture, experimentation and wiping out millions of sentient beings. Why now does she decide that she is going to follow her countries moral ethics. Why didn't this thinking stop her on previous occasions. I always got the impression that Weir makes her decisons on her own and her countries morals or ethics didn't come into the equation.

I would love to see her use some moral code but like Koyla I think she has already crossed the line that she accused Koyla of crossing. She already admitted this in Critical Mass after she ordered Kavanaugh tortured. I would like to see her a little more consistant when faced with situations like in Common Ground and not drop in ethical implications when she feels like it.

As to her not negotiating at all with Koyla because she knew he would never change his mind - well what is the point of being a negotiator at all if you are not going to even try. Isn't that the whole point - you do not know what is going on in the mind of your oponant and its up to the negotiater to try and probe into that mind and at least try and use some stalling tactics.

Thankfully Sheppard was able to come up with his own plan and managed to escape Koyla without Weir or any of his teams help.

As to Teylas clothing - well I need to go back and have a look at all this skin she is ment to be showing. I don't remember seeing much at all. As to seeing a bit of cleavage well this is how Teyla has been dressed since season one and how the Athosians dress in general.

I agree that it would have been nice to see a bit more of Sheppards chest - how did the Wraith manage to feed with only a tiny bit of chest exposed.

Raziel
August 30th, 2006, 11:07 AM
clap, clap clap.... it's all I can say....

:weiranime17:

Please, keep this writer and the "Sateda" writer too all the time!....

:zelenka25:

vaberella
August 30th, 2006, 12:10 PM
It was great to see Weir say she would stand her ground and uphold her countries moral standards and not give in to terrorists (if you want to call Koyla a terrorist) but why was this instance any differnent to any other situation she has been in.

What is the US policy against torture, experimentation and wiping out millions of sentient beings. Why now does she decide that she is going to follow her countries moral ethics. Why didn't this thinking stop her on previous occasions. I always got the impression that Weir makes her decisons on her own and her countries morals or ethics didn't come into the equation.

I would love to see her use some moral code but like Koyla I think she has already crossed the line that she accused Koyla of crossing. She already admitted this in Critical Mass after she ordered Kavanaugh tortured. I would like to see her a little more consistant when faced with situations like in Common Ground and not drop in ethical implications when she feels like it.

As to her not negotiating at all with Koyla because she knew he would never change his mind - well what is the point of being a negotiator at all if you are not going to even try. Isn't that the whole point - you do not know what is going on in the mind of your oponant and its up to the negotiater to try and probe into that mind and at least try and use some stalling tactics.


BA...normally I'm with you. And in this I totally understand where you're coming from. As I said the character of Weir is underdeveloped and what is developed is ridiculously skewed. I'm not going to give a list of the goods and bads, it's clearly apparent.

We know more times than not, that her education/background/qualifications always come into question when you see the stupidity that pervades most of the important decisions she does. As such, of course what your saying is logical and understandable. But at the time of watching the ep, I made it a point to view the episode as if it were the first and sole episode I've seen. I did not and will not take into account her previous decision making when I look at her characterization---for a paticular episode; unless it adds to the commentary in some way.

As I've said, Weir has been real awful most of the time, but there are eps where I find her thoroughly engaging and well put together and shown in a way that I can respect and I can see. So when looking at this ep, I looked at it individually and she did her duty and the job she was supposed to do. Of course taking into account everything we've seen of Weir, it's a disconcerting to see the various flipflopping of her plans and how she makes her decisions. They're done in a illogical and inconsistent manner, very eratic. But in this episode she did great.
-------------------------------------------------

Yeah, I liked CM...but I was shocked by the torture thing. Shoot, I was shocked that John agreed to that crap. It was very upsetting, because it wasn't what I would have expected from John. John who was in war would know what torture does to a man. What it can do to a person, further more, torture is the stupidiest and most illogical way of extracting information.

People will admit to anything and everything, if you put them through that. You'd get men to say anything you want them too with torture, which is why I don't get how Weir as a negotiator and diplomat would allow that, nor how John would think it was okay being a military man. It's absolutely ridiculous, and misrepresentation of the characters.

Although I fault that, I just liked that I understood Weir's dillemma, and her reaction was realistic to me if faced with that scenario---besides the torture aspect, which I did not agree with and as I said, because it never made sense!!
--------------------------------------------------
I thought that excuse was lame..if he would change his mind or not, or his motives meant nothing. Based on US laws----you don't negotiate with hostage takers. That's the end of that. It doesn't matter if you could change their minds or not.

obsessed1
August 30th, 2006, 12:15 PM
Hi there, I dont know if this has been mentioned or not as i dont have the time to go through every single post here. But since when have they had subcutaneous transmitters in them? I dont know why, but it bothered me that they hadnt mentioned it before....anyone got any thoughts?

Oh, hi everyone by the way :)

Linzi
August 30th, 2006, 01:28 PM
Hi there, I dont know if this has been mentioned or not as i dont have the time to go through every single post here. But since when have they had subcutaneous transmitters in them? I dont know why, but it bothered me that they hadnt mentioned it before....anyone got any thoughts?

Oh, hi everyone by the way :)
I didn't know that either, Obsessed1. I'm not surprised though, as it does make sense, but I've never heard that before either.

Rootortoise
August 30th, 2006, 02:43 PM
I didn't know that either, Obsessed1. I'm not surprised though, as it does make sense, but I've never heard that before either.
and it brings up the question..where exactly are these subcutaneous transmitters located?? not that im suggesting anything rude LOL

good idea tho..much easier to locate people off world and in atlantis when before they couldnt identify them as easily!

RoryJ
August 30th, 2006, 02:51 PM
Get over her clothes and focus on the characterization and what she does and her actions.

I didn't bring up the whole clothing thing, but it kind of strikes me as a common sense issue. When you're ready for combat and are running around doing missions, you'd think she'd like a shirt that doesn't let anything ... pop out. :D It just seemed so silly on behalf of the costume department to me, is all. And no, I'm not jealous. I'm a woman, I have breasts, and I also have a sports bra, lol. I really don't care, but I know a couple of women on other threads were just pointing out that at least the purple top gives her some support. ;)


Worrying about clothing doesn't develop the character--- and since Tey has been proven to be INVALUABLE to the team, and has been developed amazingly well throughout the seasons from seeing her smile to cry to what makes her tick and deck a man. I think it's safe to say that Teyla has proven herself enough

"..." :S I think Teyla has been the most shortchanged character in terms of development, seeing as Ronon just jumped ahead this season. I still think she could've had more in Common Ground, though I enjoyed what they did give her. *is still waiting for her damn Teyla episode* :mad:

expendable_crewman
August 30th, 2006, 04:00 PM
I didn't bring up the whole clothing thing, but it kind of strikes me as a common sense issue. When you're ready for combat and are running around doing missions, you'd think she'd like a shirt that doesn't let anything ... pop out. :D It just seemed so silly on behalf of the costume department to me, is all. And no, I'm not jealous. I'm a woman, I have breasts, and I also have a sports bra, lol. I really don't care, but I know a couple of women on other threads were just pointing out that at least the purple top gives her some support. ;)Here, here. It's a "time and place" issue. I'm going to notice costumes more, because I get very wound up in the military aspects of the show. I normally chuckle at Teyla's tops. That's because I'm a woman and I know what it's like to haul butt with your gear on. Believe me, that flak jacket and any duty gear will rub your bare skin raw. Not to get too much into it on this thread ... I don't want to take anything from this wonderful episode ... but you will lose precious skin exposing it like that, be it tummy skin or cleavage. Jealous? How about we take a more likely route and simply suppose that some folks prefer a heavier dose of reality than others.

All in all, I think concerns about the wardrobe have been presented here well.

Back to our regularly scheduled program, when is this episode going to pop up on iTunes? I've decided I want it, lol.

Easter Lily
August 30th, 2006, 04:33 PM
It's interesting that Teyla's wardrobe gets an airing on this forum on a regular basis. :P Personally I've been there and done it... I don't think we're going to see any changes there no matter what we say. Also I don't think it would be an issue if people saw more action with the character.

Her hair, on the other hand... :P ;)

My personal opinion is I don't want any skin shown period... male or female... just for the sake of showing skin. If the TPTB can be clever and integrate as part of the episode's story the way BSG did, I don't think it'll be an issue. But Stargate isn't that kind of show...

vaberella
August 30th, 2006, 07:51 PM
I didn't bring up the whole clothing thing, but it kind of strikes me as a common sense issue. When you're ready for combat and are running around doing missions, you'd think she'd like a shirt that doesn't let anything ... pop out. :D It just seemed so silly on behalf of the costume department to me, is all. And no, I'm not jealous. I'm a woman, I have breasts, and I also have a sports bra, lol. I really don't care, but I know a couple of women on other threads were just pointing out that at least the purple top gives her some support. ;)
It really doesn't matter who brought it up, it was brought up. And was discussed on upon by several people, I'm just taking latest post I saw on it.

What you said in bold doesn't make sense to me.

When have you seen Teyla wear that shirt when she's in combat? When? Explain it to me. I'm trying to figure it out; you see, I can't see under her vest and combat jacket and whatever else she's wearing durng a mission. As I said, I see her is in a vest and then with a jacket on top of it too. In every single mission she's seriously decked out and super dressed and prepared...check out ALL the episodes!! So your comment has really no bearing on the character in combat. Again, explain to me where you see the top while she's kicking Wraith butt (excluding Michael cause she was in the gym), then I'll agree with you.

If there is a time and place, she can wear whatever she wants, whenever she wants, in her liesure. When she's on Atlantis and or in a briefing or working out in the gym, it doesn't matter what she wears because she can wear whatever. She has before, and Ronon does, they don't need to abide by rules, they choose too. Apparently during her missions she's far more dressed up than Ronon and looks like any other military guy to me. So it means nothing.

First they were harping and whinging about the purple top, disgusting comments were made---by women. I can't stand when a woman calls another woman a whore, that's something that bugs me. But now that she has a black top, now it's like she must be cold, oh she gots a push up bra, now she doesn't have a push up bra, now she needs one...give me a break people.

This is the point where I have to say, because one can't come up with anything really to say about the character, we'll go for something insignificant. I'd have thought her actions were important when in regards to character development...I would have thought her facial expressions to a situation her actions in that situation would hold a more important baring. But if you can't do that...which I can of this character; I see the we'll attack something a bit more below the belt, or in her case above. Again it's a weak point to argue since, as I've said, if it's time and place then Teyla is in her rightful place to wear what she wants.




"..." :S I think Teyla has been the most shortchanged character in terms of development, seeing as Ronon just jumped ahead this season. I still think she could've had more in Common Ground, though I enjoyed what they did give her. *is still waiting for her damn Teyla episode* :mad:
Every single character has been 'shortchanged' for S2, and John hasn't really changed from HZ in S1---has he? So overall we got a lot of characters short changed. What did you get about John in this episode you didn't know before from S1? Really? Nothing. The episode was again to the Wraith and what did it do...just shut up the Thunkers and or John lovers who were complaining for backstory for a period---quell their upset so to speak.

Blind them by a Shep oriented ep, it seemed to me---when the ep provided nothing but Shep fightin a few yougin's, lookin' old, and then decrepit---then back to the fountain of youth. Woohoo! Come on now. If that's what you call development, then I don't know what it is.

Ronon needed the attention why? He come in as a Runner in Runner; we get a jerk, of a CO in Trinity; and snippets of him being a big teddy bear, we know he has a deep resepect and admiration for John in what?! Condemned and Conversion...other than that...the man was a blank canvas. This was to give him the development that Teyla go in both The Gift and Critical Mass.

Weir, sure as hell needed it, cause there was nothing really on her from Before I Sleep---sure a little worried glances and faltering in CM (although I liked it) but really nothing..and so far the only ep she got any worth out of was CG. Mush how TRW did more for John than Weir, CG did more for Weir than John---I think they got it backwards.

So overall, Teyla hasn't been short changed at all. Let's look at the episodes in S3---there are 20 in total, we've only seen 7, that leaves about 13--we're speculating on. We have spoilers on 5 or so of them, leaving 8 hanging and we have 2-3 we don't know anything about or even a title.

So has she been short---changed? Ask me that question again at the END of S3---not in the beginning, where we have a 2 week hiatus---and what ever other hiatus' awating us. In those 7, Teyla was a surprise in Sateda---taking up a lot of air time---where it was three people and no one else....how was she shortchanged there? Then we have her presence in Irresistable---remember not only was Lucius all over her but we had McKay playing up Teyla; where was she shortchanged? Then we have Mis---where she flys a ship and pretty much orders around a few people and checks Michael...explain to me shortchanged...then you have NML---where she didn't get that much play, but she was stuck on Atlantis...not much for her to do, than watch over everyone.

So was she shortchanged...not really..not taking in the last couple of eps. Do I feel they could have done better with her in Common Ground? Hell yes, but it's not enough for me to think that she's a trophy character to look good on the side. And as I've said in previous posts, we've seen her Cry, we've seen her Laugh/Giggle, we've seen her pissed off, we've seen her kick butt, we've seen foretell the future, we've seen her jump 3 ft in the air, we've seen her get posessed, we've seen her put in situations that are heartbreaking and emotionally impactive (TLG).

So she's extremely consistent by the writers and RL works amazing with what she's given. Look at the reviews for Sateda, to see the impact she made when she was talking to John in that scene. So I can't marginalize her in that way----and in totally she's proven herself more than other characters, as BA has said, she's written like McKay, when it comes to consistency---but she only speaks when she has something to say---not something stupid to be put in her place...ie some characteres in Sateda. There are, as I said 20 eps, and we only saw 7, let's complain when we reach 19, if we can still complain then.



:sheppardanime32::teylaanime08::mckayanime08:
Teyla in McShep Wonderland!!

mywraithcommander
August 30th, 2006, 11:21 PM
I liked the ending when the old wraith looked up to the sound of a wraith dart flying overhead. *rejoining his own kind again* a tear dropper. :)

ladysarah
August 31st, 2006, 01:07 AM
I like Teyla's clothing. I always have. And her combat gear is appropriate.

Funny, nobody ever *****ed about Xena being a whore, and she wore far less at times.

IE: I think it's a compliment Rodney paid Teyla to call her Xena, considering Xena was exceptionally smart and fought well.

ashiee
August 31st, 2006, 02:27 AM
Dont shot me, but common ground did show that writer has difficulty on developing Teyla's character. Which is a sad thing since in season one you saw a lot of strong presence of her and she did play a very leading role in some of them. And in season two, things get sour for her.

I personally think her position in the off-world team dont really give her room to develop. She lost the chance to be the leading on all the angst and drama because she is not like weir who is being criticized all times on her leadership and her not-so-involve in action scene; or like rodney who always will be the clown with so complicated characters and ridicoulous actions; or like ronon who is still trying to be fit in atlantis; and definitely not like sheppard who is the center of all emotions; or even beckett who is beckett, a supporting role who always catch a smart lines. She started to drift away and take a supporting role to the others in the team.

I need to see the season one Teyla, who fight for a place in atlantis and I also think Teyla need some stories build on herself and not on her relationships with the other characters or her tribe. Perhaps getting her involved with other people outside the main characters will be an intesting storyline. She didnt get that chance much isnt she?

bluealien
August 31st, 2006, 03:09 AM
Teyla is decked out from head to toe in combat gear but she is not dressed appropriately??

Oh her bra seems to be the issue - because she exposes a tiny bit of clevage under her jacket and her tac vest. Well I have no problem with the way she dresses and exposing a bit of skin hasn't prevented her fighting hand to hand in the past.

She is also the most consistantly written character on the show and because some of the other characters get more screen time doesn't mean that they are any better developed than her. The writers seem to have come to a bit of stumbling block for Rodney as well. They seem to be focusing his character as comic relief at the moment so it will be interesting to see if we will learn a bit more about him in McKay and Mrs Miller.

Overall I am happy with how the writers are taking most of the charcters this season. We are getting more focus and better writing for Sheppard and I love how he is being portrayed so far in season three, Common Ground and Sateda being favourites. There is plenty of time left to devote more screen time for the rest of the characters and I believe that Teyla will be getting a lot more focus during the remainder of the season and I am looking forward to that.

Linzi
August 31st, 2006, 04:10 AM
To be honest I'm confused as to why, when watching an episode of the outstanding quality of Common Ground, that anybody would want to focus on Teyla's clothing! So, she wore a top that exposed a little cleavage, I noticed, but big deal as far as I'm concerned. She's an attractive woman, what's wrong with her top? She doesn't have to dress like a nun, surely? ;) I was far more interested in watching the story unfold, and being amazed at the quality of the writing and acting, personally.
As far as Teyla's character development is concerned, it was primarily a Sheppard episode with loads of an unusual Wraith and Kolya. There's only so much that can be put into 40 odd minutes of television. I'm sure some excellent Teyla moments will be coming soon...er, perhaps episode 9?

RoryJ
August 31st, 2006, 06:14 AM
you will lose precious skin exposing it like that, be it tummy skin or cleavage. Jealous? How about we take a more likely route and simply suppose that some folks prefer a heavier dose of reality than others.


Yeah, that's all I'm getting at. I actually like the idea that the Athosian women are more comfortable about their sexuality and their bodies, because it adds color to the Athosians.

And as for her development, I think Teyla has been very consistent, moreso than anyone else. But I don't think the writers utilize her as well as they could. In 47 episodes, she usually gets the role of fighter/question-asker. I want to see more episodes like the Gift and Critcal Mass for her, so hopefully that's coming up.

expendable_crewman
August 31st, 2006, 07:52 AM
All rightee then ...

So ... when will Common Ground be up on iTunes? Anyone know?

Elinor
August 31st, 2006, 07:58 AM
We are getting more focus and better writing for Sheppard and I love how he is being portrayed so far in season three, Common Ground and Sateda being favourites.

Oh me to! The first 7 episodes of this season have been great for him. Hope it continues!


She's an attractive woman, what's wrong with her top? She doesn't have to dress like a nun, surely?

My friend loves Teyla! He sees absolutely nothing wrong with her clothing at all...not one bit!! Until it was mentioned here, I didn't even notice what she was wearing. The story was far too compelling for me to notice something as simple as cleavage!! Although....if the producers are going down that line of showing more skin, I have to ask...when is Sheppy gonna take his shirt off eh?!!! Equal rights an' all!!

http://www.clicksmilies.com/s0105/lachen/laughing-smiley-008.gif

blingaway
August 31st, 2006, 08:23 AM
I'm late. :P

There was so much here to love, one little bit being Ladon/Ronon. I loved how Ladon didn't even flinch when Ronon loomed and snarled over him right after he stepped through the gate to Atlantis. Ladon is developing nicely as the leader of the Genii. I believe he can lead. I still don't trust him an inch tho...:P

Dark Falcon
August 31st, 2006, 09:48 AM
This episode gave us a completely different perspective
on the Wraith! :wraith:

You have got to admire the dialogue between Sheppard and
the Wraith in the prison cells.

If the Wraith turn out to be good guys, then we could sure
use them in the fight against the Ori. :D

freyr's mother
August 31st, 2006, 10:24 AM
This ep was right on par with the excellence of Sateda! That is all I have to say.:cool:

vaberella
August 31st, 2006, 10:37 AM
Dont shot me, but common ground did show that writer has difficulty on developing Teyla's character. Which is a sad thing since in season one you saw a lot of strong presence of her and she did play a very leading role in some of them. And in season two, things get sour for her.

I personally think her position in the off-world team dont really give her room to develop. She lost the chance to be the leading on all the angst and drama because she is not like weir who is being criticized all times on her leadership and her not-so-involve in action scene; or like rodney who always will be the clown with so complicated characters and ridicoulous actions; or like ronon who is still trying to be fit in atlantis; and definitely not like sheppard who is the center of all emotions; or even beckett who is beckett, a supporting role who always catch a smart lines. She started to drift away and take a supporting role to the others in the team.

I need to see the season one Teyla, who fight for a place in atlantis and I also think Teyla need some stories build on herself and not on her relationships with the other characters or her tribe. Perhaps getting her involved with other people outside the main characters will be an intesting storyline. She didnt get that chance much isnt she?
How does the CG show they have a problem developing Teyla? You even go into let’s see now, S1 eps, so apparently they do know how to develop Teyla. Because she wasn’t in the episode of CG, where they used Carson---very unnecessarily----the writer’s don’t know how to develop Teyla? Let’s see a recap of S2 (although, overall I find they didn't give the characters their just representation; we did get something for almost everyone--even Weir) we had her in The Lost Boys/The Hive---which I thought even when not focused on, she was great.

It was a Ford, double feature---but it was well done for Teyla and we got to see how caring she was, also a bit of her connection with the wraith---and she has balls. And various other things. Then we move into Critical Mass—great development for her there, I really was impressed by seeing her crying, because as everyone likes to point out, ‘Teyla tries to be strong!’ Well she bloody broke---and I saw tears. So far, no character has given me tears yet!!

It was fantastic, and her characterization was great---she wasn’t even a focus, it was a shared spotlight. Then you have eps like Trinity---we know what makes her tick and we know what she will do for her ‘own kind’ vs. earth and it does bring up the debate on loyalty---and her true agenda (fantastic ep in that sense). Then you have eps like Inferno—where she’s ready to collapse, you have eps like Aurora---that make you laugh, and it shows that she's extremely intelligent; you have eps like Allies, and Michael and various others.

Keep in mind all the characters were underplayed in S2, but if you pay attention for characterization you can see that the writers---in the case of Teyla do care about characterization---much like they do for McKay in several scenes when he’s barely there. In S2, the same can be said about John--we had zero development---if there is such a thing as de-development. :D He was stagnant, except getting eps like Conversion and probably Inferno---as semi-heartfelt eps. Actually let me give him some props for Michael, The Hive/Lost Boys---because I loved his role in them and thought John really gave me something meaty about himself in them.

So to say the writers dont know how to develop her character is a bit incorrect, they chose though to give Carson more air time, which was detrimental to Teyla's character. They did the same thing to McKay in Michael if anyone cared to watch the ep. Actually I don't think anyone even paid much attention to that. But if you look at Michael---McKay really had no purpose as he could have, and it was pretty much all Teyla or Carson---sprinkled with Ronon and Weir, a pinch of John.

If they could have logically worked in Carson fine, maybe have him hoovering the background I could feel Teyla in CG. But it doesn't make sense why there was nothing on Teyla for CG--and her feelings as we saw with Ronon and Mckay. Anyway Teyla's lack of performance didnt' take away from CG, just felt that the writers dropped the ball, with her.




you will lose precious skin exposing it like that, be it tummy skin or cleavage. Jealous? How about we take a more likely route and simply suppose that some folks prefer a heavier dose of reality than others.
Yeah, that's all I'm getting at. I actually like the idea that the Athosian women are more comfortable about their sexuality and their bodies, because it adds color to the Athosians.
I should have quoted expendable_crewman too in my first post, my mistake, well I’ll do the both of you at the same time. I think I made my case and point when we can say that Teyla is fully geared up and in uniform in every episode. She doesn’t flounce in a braless top on missions, and when she’s not directly on a mission she can do what she wants since EC says here:

Here, here. It's a "time and place" issue. I'm going to notice costumes more, because I get very wound up in the military aspects of the show.

So again, why are there complaints?



And as for her development, I think Teyla has been very consistent, moreso than anyone else. But I don't think the writers utilize her as well as they could. In 47 episodes, she usually gets the role of fighter/question-asker. I want to see more episodes like the Gift and Critcal Mass for her, so hopefully that's coming up.

Based on your last statement, the statement above contradicts—check out the quote below.

"..." :S I think Teyla has been the most shortchanged character in terms of development, seeing as Ronon just jumped ahead this season. I still think she could've had more in Common Ground, though I enjoyed what they did give her. *is still waiting for her damn Teyla episode* :mad:

Again she wasn’t asking any questions in CM, nor was she doing that in The Hive/Brotherhood…an did we forget Aurora---Teyla rocked that episode. I think again the choice to see lack of development is by the viewer, but not really the case. In this episode again, I think they gave her the shaft for more Carson—since Carson is needed, and as we have seen in the past, give her a moment, no words and Teyla’s face is enough to bring tears to your eyes. So, they probably felt she could do that, sadly they didn’t give her any camera even get that emotion across to us, and taking this episode into account singularly, I would agree.


Teyla is decked out from head to toe in combat gear but she is not dressed appropriately??

Apparently not if you take into account both expendable crewman and roryj's posts. Time and place, is still inappropriate.


Oh her bra seems to be the issue - because she exposes a tiny bit of clevage under her jacket and her tac vest. Well I have no problem with the way she dresses and exposing a bit of skin hasn't prevented her fighting hand to hand in the past.

She is also the most consistantly written character on the show and because some of the other characters get more screen time doesn't mean that they are any better developed than her. The writers seem to have come to a bit of stumbling block for Rodney as well. They seem to be focusing his character as comic relief at the moment so it will be interesting to see if we will learn a bit more about him in McKay and Mrs Miller.

Overall I am happy with how the writers are taking most of the charcters this season. We are getting more focus and better writing for Sheppard and I love how he is being portrayed so far in season three, Common Ground and Sateda being favourites. There is plenty of time left to devote more screen time for the rest of the characters and I believe that Teyla will be getting a lot more focus during the remainder of the season and I am looking forward to that.
If we're discussing the scene when she's in meeting with Weir, she's with Weir and Ronon and McKay!! I'd be surprised if the guys haven't seen her near nudity based on the missions they go on and the fact the could spend days on a mission. Again she's on Atlantis, she can wear what she wants. She just wears the black top on Atlantis and when chillin' (or she wears something Athosian) or she is decked in commando mode, when on a mission. I'm trying see how inappropriate she is. As for the rest of your statement, totally agree, let's see if I can green you.


And Linzi and Elinor...I totally agree with you, it's supposed to be a primarily John ep, but there should have been more Teyla--and I don't get how her clothes became the de facto discussion, when it doesn't talk or walk, or give me anything but a covering on her body.



:teylaanime08: + :sheppardanime23::mckayanime08: = McSheyla

bluealien
August 31st, 2006, 11:08 AM
If we're discussing the scene when she's in meeting with Weir, she's with Weir and Ronon and McKay!! I'd be surprised if the guys haven't seen her near nudity based on the missions they go on and the fact the could spend days on a mission. Again she's on Atlantis, she can wear what she wants. She just wears the black top on Atlantis and when chillin' (or she wears something Athosian) or she is decked in commando mode, when on a mission. I'm trying see how inappropriate she is. As for the rest of your statement, totally agree, let's see if I can green you.

I wasn't really referring to any scene in particular Vaberella . I was just saying that I don't understand why some think she is inapropriately dressed for combat when she is decked out in full combat gear, and she can wear whatever bra she likes.:)

Heaven
August 31st, 2006, 11:24 AM
I'm just wondering whoever wrote this episode cuz I just have to thank him for finally reminding us that WE'RE THE GOOD GUYS

btw what the hell is up with gateroom guy? I always liked it that he keeps his tone down but they probably heared him all the way down to the mainland on this one. :S

vaberella
August 31st, 2006, 11:31 AM
I wasn't really referring to any scene in particular Vaberella . I was just saying that I don't understand why some think she is inapropriately dressed for combat when she is decked out in full combat gear, and she can wear whatever bra she likes.:)
Thanks for clearing it up, cause that wasn't a bra in that scene, I thought it was a top. Anyway I totally agree, hence I don't get where people are coming from.:mckay:

shockwave
August 31st, 2006, 11:52 AM
great ep
nice to have Kolya back, what a great villan
Ladon looked much cooler with a beard

RoryJ
August 31st, 2006, 05:21 PM
Based on your last statement, the statement above contradicts—check out the quote below.


Then I should re-adjust my wording. I meant development in terms of her utilization, not characterization. I don't think the writers have a clear idea of how she plays into a plot on an episode to episode basis. Too often she's background noise, and I think that it would be very easy for TPTB to change that and use her more prominently. Sorry for the confusion.

But that belongs in the Teyla thread anyway. :cool:

Very quickly:

an did we forget Aurora---Teyla rocked that episode.

She freaking did rock that episode! I want more of that Teyla hanging around. :D

vaberella
August 31st, 2006, 06:35 PM
Then I should re-adjust my wording. I meant development in terms of her utilization, not characterization. I don't think the writers have a clear idea of how she plays into a plot on an episode to episode basis. Too often she's background noise, and I think that it would be very easy for TPTB to change that and use her more prominently. Sorry for the confusion.

But that belongs in the Teyla thread anyway. :cool:

This I completely agree with, although it's been there and been discussed, but I'm sure a few people would like to recomment of find their posts and just cut and paste it. Since I could do that now, in response to your statement. As for the clothing thing...I don't think that's gonna fly to well on the Teyla thread, since majority if not all of the fanatics that post there (as I once was) would probably not agree with her clothing being inappropriate at any time; since as I stated and BA she's been dressed properly.

But lastly, again I would have loved more Teyla...but at least I FINALLY got a great Weir moment, and I must say, long live John; McKay was fantastic and as a friend, I've never seen better. He was really great, if only I could get the same out of Shep---just the level of caring about McKay--as I got with McKay for Shep. Ronon was of good during his moments---although the whole 'pup' syndrome he has is unnerving. Great ep..not fantastic, but great!!

Oh,and if you dont' know how to use Beckett, then dont' use him at all.

expendable_crewman
September 1st, 2006, 03:34 AM
Apparently not if you take into account both expendable crewman and roryj's posts. Time and place, is still inappropriate.I never said that. Is there another place this can be discussed? I'm up to it but not here. You have definite opinions on Teyla and I respect that. I'm pretty sure I'm not going to agree with all of them, but I'm not comfortable continuing this discussion on this thread. You should know that as far as the show goes, my favorite character is Teyla, followed by Sheppard, and that's held since season one, so, like I said, I'm up to discussing your thoughts on Teyla's development in a forum where open minds and courtesy prevail, although her costume, as I wrote, isn't that big a deal to me. However, on this thread, I'm formally dropping out.

Has anyone an idea when the episode will be avilable on iTunes? I keep checking and they only have up to The Real World.

RoryJ
September 1st, 2006, 05:59 AM
Has anyone an idea when the episode will be avilable on iTunes? I keep checking and they only have up to The Real World.


They seem to wait until the next episode has aired before posting the previous episode on iTunes. :D

expendable_crewman
September 1st, 2006, 11:56 AM
They seem to wait until the next episode has aired before posting the previous episode on iTunes. :DTwo weeks, though? Unfair. Maybe they will be merciful and let me get it for the weekend. I hope they don't hold onto the ep that will be the mid-season cliffhangar. I'm enjoying this iTunes thing.

agent_omf
September 1st, 2006, 10:20 PM
This episode was not bad but way too predictable. I knew it was a wraith in the other cell before they showed us. I knew they were going to escape together before shepherd suggested it. and I knew the wraith was going to 'un-feed', or give life back to shepherd.

Pitry
September 2nd, 2006, 12:04 PM
I have beef only with two things in this episode.

First, "the gift of life". Atlantis has been walking a fine line with the Wraith when it comes to how belivable they are and how scientific that all is. But they've since made attempt to make it a bit more scientific. Comes this episode and in need for a conventient solution to having the life sucked out of Sheppard, comes with one. Completely implausible and silly - and it diminshes the Wraith even more, because if they do decide this isn't magic, the second hte process is reversible it means the team can find the off switch and all point of the Wraith us gone.

The seocnd - why oh why wasn't this episode in season 1?!
Finally, we see the Wraith as more than ridiculous monsters. Finally, they get some character! But it was so much more needed earlier on. True, it proves damages can be fixed - hell, who knows, maybe the damage to Ronon and Teyla isn't irreversible? But it should have come sooner.

Other than that, great episode. I have to say that unlike Torri Higginson who really showed she rocks in The Real World, I'm not too hot on Joe Flanigan's acting - nor the range of the character. But there were some really beautiful moments in there. The one that caught my attention the most was, I suspect, the moment the Wraith feeds on the guard - and Sheppard looks away and doesn't say anything. How that's for revenge on your torturers? Much better than the regular "shoot 'em dead again and again".
I loved the wraith. Completely and utterly. As I siad, much needed developing.

Weir not giving in to Kolya - hooray. ;) Hopefully, LAten (is that his name?) would remember this the next time the Genii are giving us a hard time. This could really develop into a Tok'Ra-esque relationship, which is good. Enough with the double play.
Ronon - okay, they dind't develop him at all this episode,but I enjoyed the touches. Yeah, that little "no promises" smile was lovely. ;) And now I believed the "we help our family" feeling much more than I did in Progeny.
Rodney debriefing the marines - brilliant! ha!

lovely episode.

CalmStorm
September 2nd, 2006, 12:27 PM
This episode was not bad but way too predictable. I knew it was a wraith in the other cell before they showed us. I knew they were going to escape together before shepherd suggested it. and I knew the wraith was going to 'un-feed', or give life back to shepherd.

Some parts of the episode were predictable to me becuase of the the previews. However, I love spoilers, and even knowing it was a wraith in the next cell I enjoyed watching Shep figure out what we already knew. For me, it's not so much knowing what is going to happen, but watching it all play out, watching the little details, and the characters reactions to the situation. For me, I can read an entire transcript first, and then watch the episode and still be blown away by the acting, the sets, and just the overall atmosphere of the situtation...even knowing what will happen.

Rootortoise
September 2nd, 2006, 02:40 PM
Some parts of the episode were predictable to me becuase of the the previews. However, I love spoilers, and even knowing it was a wraith in the next cell I enjoyed watching Shep figure out what we already knew. For me, it's not so much knowing what is going to happen, but watching it all play out, watching the little details, and the characters reactions to the situation. For me, I can read an entire transcript first, and then watch the episode and still be blown away by the acting, the sets, and just the overall atmosphere of the situtation...even knowing what will happen.
yep! same here! i knew most of what was going to happen (from spoilers and discussions about the ep) but when i watched the ep it still blew me away at how fantastic it was. everything was portrayed beautifully...joe flanigan rocked in this ep, as did everyone else! knowing whats about to happen, in no way ruins an ep for me...and scifi programmes have the typical cliches and obvious plot devices (of course shep wasnt going to die/stay old) but its the way in which they are integrated into the episode which makes it work for me. common ground is by far one of the best sga eps ever, in my own opinion, because the way in which everything was executed was pretty close to perfect...and i say pretty close because theres always stuff that can be done to an ep to make it perfect...i wouldve liked to see shep get back to atlantis at the end and see elizabeths reaction or some kind of reflective moment at the end to show that shep was affected by what he had endured...but i also understand that what they did show was important and that they have a time constraint!!

Linzi
September 2nd, 2006, 03:13 PM
yep! same here! i knew most of what was going to happen (from spoilers and discussions about the ep) but when i watched the ep it still blew me away at how fantastic it was. everything was portrayed beautifully...joe flanigan rocked in this ep, as did everyone else! knowing whats about to happen, in no way ruins an ep for me...and scifi programmes have the typical cliches and obvious plot devices (of course shep wasnt going to die/stay old) but its the way in which they are integrated into the episode which makes it work for me. common ground is by far one of the best sga eps ever, in my own opinion, because the way in which everything was executed was pretty close to perfect...and i say pretty close because theres always stuff that can be done to an ep to make it perfect...i wouldve liked to see shep get back to atlantis at the end and see elizabeths reaction or some kind of reflective moment at the end to show that shep was affected by what he had endured...but i also understand that what they did show was important and that they have a time constraint!!
I agree with you here. I think Joe was fab in CG. Really wonderful! I too would have like a team reunion of sorts, but I do understand that time was short. So much fabulous writing and action AND character moments were crammed into this episode, that I really can't complain! Ken did a wonderful job!

agent_omf
September 2nd, 2006, 05:26 PM
For me, it's not so much knowing what is going to happen, but watching it all play out, watching the little details, and the characters reactions to the situation. For me, I can read an entire transcript first, and then watch the episode and still be blown away by the acting, the sets, and just the overall atmosphere of the situtation...even knowing what will happen.


I agree but it seemed to me that it was filmed in such a way that the three things I mentioned (wraith in the next cell, sheppard teaming with the wraith, and the wraith's 'gift of life') were supposed to be a surprise/unpredictable when they are shown, it seems to diminish the episode when you know what is going to happen (without any fore-knowledge)

MB.Eddie
September 4th, 2006, 02:43 AM
This episode was not bad but way too predictable. I knew it was a wraith in the other cell before they showed us. I knew they were going to escape together before shepherd suggested it.

I saw those things coming too.


I knew the wraith was going to 'un-feed', or give life back to shepherd.

Didnt see that one coming but. I thought the wraith might have some tech that could help heal him...

Linzi
September 4th, 2006, 07:23 AM
I saw those things coming too.



Didnt see that one coming but. I thought the wraith might have some tech that could help heal him...
I had guessed the plot already, including the wraith returning Shep the years off his life he'd taken. I had discussed CG to death with my fellow posters in another thread, so I can't be surprised we guessed. We had pretty much gone over every possible scenario in the universe!!!!
What I hadn't planned for though, was the quality of the writing and the quality of the acting in this episode. Both simply blew me away. I love darker episodes, and this delivered on so many levels that it didn't matter that the story panned out as I thought it would. It was the execution that was so important.

bluealien
September 4th, 2006, 09:08 AM
I had guessed the plot already, including the wraith returning Shep the years off his life he'd taken. I had discussed CG to death with my fellow posters in another thread, so I can't be surprised we guessed. We had pretty much gone over every possible scenario in the universe!!!!
What I hadn't planned for though, was the quality of the writing and the quality of the acting in this episode. Both simply blew me away. I love darker episodes, and this delivered on so many levels that it didn't matter that the story panned out as I thought it would. It was the execution that was so important.

Yes the execution of the plot is definitely important. I was pretty spoiled for this ep too but it still surprised me and I had no idea how the Wraith was going to be portrayed. The moments between the Wraith and Sheppard were the highlight of the show for me. Beautifully written and executed. Joe did a fantastic job with the role in general and the scenes where he was being fed on were frightening and you could see the pain in his eyes.

There will always be things that are predictable but you cannot predict how how characters will interact or play off each other. The only teeny bit of complaint I have is that Sheppard seemed to go from old to young again without any real WTF!! - a little bit more reaction to what had happened to him would have been nice. But then we don't usually get to see the repercussions of what the characters go through anyway.

But overall a favourtie ep and one that I will definitely watch again.

Linzi
September 4th, 2006, 10:24 AM
Yes the execution of the plot is definitely important. I was pretty spoiled for this ep too but it still surprised me and I had no idea how the Wraith was going to be portrayed. The moments between the Wraith and Sheppard were the highlight of the show for me. Beautifully written and executed. Joe did a fantastic job with the role in general and the scenes where he was being fed on were frightening and you could see the pain in his eyes.

There will always be things that are predictable but you cannot predict how how characters will interact or play off each other. The only teeny bit of complaint I have is that Sheppard seemed to go from old to young again without any real WTF!! - a little bit more reaction to what had happened to him would have been nice. But then we don't usually get to see the repercussions of what the characters go through anyway.

But overall a favourtie ep and one that I will definitely watch again.
I agree about the lack of Sheppard's reaction when he was all young and beautiful again. Don't get me wrong, I was relieved to see him returned to his former glory, but a little, 'what the hell happened here?' and maybe a bit of wavering on the old feet would have been nice. Sheppard must have been severly shocked, I'd have thought. But, again, I do understand the restrictions of 44 minutes of television time so I suspect they just ran out of time. I am also a shameless whumper...
Common Ground is one of my favourite all time SGA episodes too.

Brivilya Almasy
September 4th, 2006, 12:41 PM
I loved this episode!! It was soo good and i loved all of it.
One thing that bothered me was i thought John's team would show a littlemore emotion. I mean they all looked upset and all but he was getting FED on by a wraith and they were watching it. If i was there i'd definatly be angry and really upset. Idk, lol, i would have liked a little more emotion.

But overall i really loved the episode. Even though i knew soooo many spoliers about it, i still enjoyed it. ^_^

kris
September 5th, 2006, 03:14 PM
I have beef only with two things in this episode.

First, "the gift of life". Atlantis has been walking a fine line with the Wraith when it comes to how belivable they are and how scientific that all is. But they've since made attempt to make it a bit more scientific. Comes this episode and in need for a conventient solution to having the life sucked out of Sheppard, comes with one. Completely implausible and silly - and it diminshes the Wraith even more, because if they do decide this isn't magic, the second hte process is reversible it means the team can find the off switch and all point of the Wraith us gone.


Although I liked this episode, as I've stated before, I would agree that it was a convenient solution but I can still hang with it for the storytelling's sake since it was well done as usual on SGA.

What I've wished for is that they would've given the gift of life a name. I mean, T'ealc had his Kel-nor-reem in Stargate and everyone knew instantly what it was referring to, and it sounded cool. But "gift of life"? - I keep thinking organ donation.

I would like to ask the writers to please give the gift of life--which is a very important, newly-introduced part of the Wraith life---a Wraith-oriented (from their culture, not ours) name that is quickly identifiable (and sounds cool). That is, if they don't already have one in mind to be introduced in a later episode.

Or perhaps the fans can suggest one. :) Kris. Just a thought. :mckay:

female Wraith
September 5th, 2006, 11:46 PM
I wonder what is the name of the Wraith in Common Ground? May be in some other episode we will understand it. I wonder how it sounds. Something like the names in Lord of ring?? Melkiel or Melkior!!???:cameron:
I was surprised that Shepherd didn't give a name of this Wraith like Dick or Edi:))))))):) ;)

Laura the Asgard
September 7th, 2006, 03:26 PM
I loved this episode!! It was soo good and i loved all of it.
One thing that bothered me was i thought John's team would show a littlemore emotion. I mean they all looked upset and all but he was getting FED on by a wraith and they were watching it. If i was there i'd definatly be angry and really upset. Idk, lol, i would have liked a little more emotion.

But overall i really loved the episode. Even though i knew soooo many spoliers about it, i still enjoyed it. ^_^

I agree with everything you said, I really enjoyed it and have watched it a few more times and see something new each time. Joe's performance was great and did anyone notice his expression while "Gabriel" (a highly recommended name) was feeding on the Genii guard when they first broke out of the cells?

I agree that if I were watching my friend get fed upon I would be very emotional because they didn't know that he could recover or that he would be given the gift of life. I don't know if I could watch that.

They left the ending wide open for more of these characters. I liked that as well because they seem to set the replay button each time. We can see Gabriel again and we can see that b*** head Kolya again. (and he hope he gets whats coming to him..but it's hard to say that because Robert Davi is great).

The fact that a wriath found appreciation looking at a sky was a very nice insight to the wraith. He had a sense of honor, humor and that brings hope for a whole new set of story lines, to say nothing of the "gift of life".

Anyway - I'm not qualified to do a "review", but as an Atantis fan who wants to enjoy my favorite show after a long week - this was a great episode!:)

Descent
September 8th, 2006, 01:01 PM
Anyone else think the rating GW gave Common Ground is a bit too low?

The Sweet Guy
September 8th, 2006, 01:59 PM
Yeah but I hardly ever agree with their ratings. Common Ground should be a 4, Real World should be like a 2, and Sateda a 3 and a half.

Linzi
September 8th, 2006, 03:45 PM
Anyone else think the rating GW gave Common Ground is a bit too low?
In my opinion - absolutely. Best episode of this series so far, with Sateda a close second. Makes no sense to me. Then again, I suppose it's subjective.

Elinor
September 9th, 2006, 11:14 PM
Yes, that is a surprisingly low GW rating. I think it should be a 4 as well. Do they work out the ratings from the votes we give in the poll on the homepage? I did notice that a few days into the poll, all the votes vanished and it had to start all over again. Maybe that had something to do with it...I don't know.

Common Ground and then Sateda have been the best episodes so far for me!

http://www.websmileys.com/sm/happy/1405.gif

bluealien
September 10th, 2006, 12:58 AM
Yes, that is a surprisingly low GW rating. I think it should be a 4 as well. Do they work out the ratings from the votes we give in the poll on the homepage? I did notice that a few days into the poll, all the votes vanished and it had to start all over again. Maybe that had something to do with it...I don't know.

Common Ground and then Sateda have been the best episodes so far for me!

http://www.websmileys.com/sm/happy/1405.gif



I've wondered how they work out the ratings.

Common Ground to me was definitely a 4.

It's my favourite episode so far, with Sateda very close behind.

Sheppard's Delight
September 10th, 2006, 01:07 AM
Yes, that is a surprisingly low GW rating. I think it should be a 4 as well. Do they work out the ratings from the votes we give in the poll on the homepage? I did notice that a few days into the poll, all the votes vanished and it had to start all over again. Maybe that had something to do with it...I don't know.

Common Ground and then Sateda have been the best episodes so far for me!

http://www.websmileys.com/sm/happy/1405.gif


Well I PM'd Darren about the ** 1/2 stars that CG got as I couldnt see why it would be so low compared to The Real World which seemed to have much poorer votes. Well it seems that firstly there was an error with The Real World voting but in fact the GW rating that you see is nothing to do with the poll it is Darren's own personal view.

To see how each episode did in terms of fans votes you have to go and click on each epsiode. There it tells you the GW rating (i.e. Darrens view) and the Fans rating (i.e. The Poll)

So far the Fan Rating looks like this:


NML 8.83
Misbegotten 8.06
Irresistible 6.63
Sateda 8.90
Progeny 9.0
The Real World 9.15 (This is what Darren said it was before the error occured but this has been taken down now after I queried it- so it remains unrated until others watch and the voting is more substantial)
Common Ground 8.89

CG is not doing too bad in the fans polls.

Oh and I agree that CG and Sateda are the best by far IMO.

maxbo
September 10th, 2006, 01:53 AM
I'm also surprised about the low rating for Common Ground (and for Sg-1's 200). This is where a detailed review would be helpful because I would love to know why the reviewer didn't rank this episode higher. Until recently I also thought the star system was linked to the fan poll, but as SLC mentioned, they are separate.

As for the Real World's fan poll, there was a system problem just before the fan votes were tabulated where The Real World's actual fan votes were deleted and that episode's fan votes were somehow linked to the Common Ground's fan votes. So, that 9.15 was actually Common Ground's fan vote rating at the time.

The day before the fan votes for The Real World were calculated, it had over 15,000 fan votes and almost 30% of the fans gave it a 10. The day the votes were calculated, The Real World was shown as having only 5,000 votes where almost 60% of the fans gave it a 10 (Common Ground's fan vote numbers). After that, the fan results for The Real World and Common Ground were zeroed out and started from scratch.

It looks like they're getting this fan vote glitch fixed, but it would be nice to have detailed Gateworld reviews so we can find out the why of these Gateworld ratings.

Elinor
September 10th, 2006, 02:04 AM
Thanks for that info SLC and Maxbo!

:)

Sheppard's Delight
September 10th, 2006, 02:04 AM
I'm also surprised about the low rating for Common Ground (and for Sg-1's 200). This is where a detailed review would be helpful because I would love to know why the reviewer didn't rank this episode higher. Until recently I also thought the star system was linked to the fan poll, but as SLC, mentioned they are separate.

As for the Real World's fan poll, there was a system problem just before the fan votes were tabulated where The Real World's actual fan votes were deleted and that episode fan votes was somehow linked to the Common Ground's fan votes. So, that 9.15 was actually Common Ground's fan vote rating at the time.

The day before the fan votes for The Real World were calculated, it had over 15,000 fan votes and almost 30% of the fans gave it a 10. The day the votes were calculated, The Real World was shown as having only 5,000 votes where almost 60% of the fans gave it a 10 (Common Ground's fan vote numbers). After that, the fan results for The Real World and Common Ground were zeroed out and started from scratch.

It looks like they're getting this fan vote glitch fixed, but it would be nice to have detailed Gateworld reviews so we can find out the why of these Gateworld ratings.


Well IMO there is no way that TRW should have shown a 9.15 (the best review of the season?????) like it was listed as showing.So if it got mixed with CG votes that would make sense (and CG should really be higher?).

You are right, some sort of review of why the GW rating is as shown would be good. Also when you look at the whole season's epsiode list it is only the GW ratings that you see.......so it kind of seems that the stars are the most important ratings.

Linzi
September 10th, 2006, 02:43 AM
Well IMO there is no way that TRW should have shown a 9.15 (the best review of the season?????) like it was listed as showing.So if it got mixed with CG votes that would make sense (and CG should really be higher?).

You are right, some sort of review of why the GW rating is as shown would be good. Also when you look at the whole season's epsiode list it is only the GW ratings that you see.......so it kind of seems that the stars are the most important ratings.
I totally agree with all that's being said here. I'm stunned that TRW would get a higher rating than CG. TRW has been the weakest episode of season 3 for me, and judging from the fan votes a substantial part of the voting public here rated the episode as terrible!
As for GW's own rating. Hmmm. Well, obviously all reviews and personal ratings are subjective, but I am surprised that TRW would be rated more favourably than CG. Perhaps Sheppard centred episodes aren't particulary favoured by the reviewer, and Weir ones are? We all have our favourite characters, after all. Personally, I thought CG had a great storyline, and I thought it was a dark and tense episode, whereas TRW was predictable and a pretty obvious scifi cliché. Each to his/her own though!

raiyen
September 10th, 2006, 09:46 AM
I totally agree with all that's being said here. I'm stunned that TRW would get a higher rating than CG. TRW has been the weakest episode of season 3 for me, and judging from the fan votes a substantial part of the voting public here rated the episode as terrible!
As for GW's own rating. Hmmm. Well, obviously all reviews and personal ratings are subjective, but I am surprised that TRW would be rated more favourably than CG. Perhaps Sheppard centred episodes aren't particulary favoured by the reviewer, and Weir ones are? We all have our favourite characters, after all. Personally, I thought CG had a great storyline, and I thought it was a dark and tense episode, whereas TRW was predictable and a pretty obvious scifi cliché. Each to his/her own though!
Just left a comment on Darren's blog that they should display the fan poll instead. Tired of hearing about the critic's reviews at the theaters already. Just because they run this website, Our opinions count more then theirs.

bluealien
September 10th, 2006, 11:27 AM
Just left a comment on Darren's blog that they should display the fan poll instead. Tired of hearing about the critic's reviews at the theaters already. Just because they run this website, Our opinions count more then theirs.

I agree,

The rating system should be based on the fans votes. At least then we are getting an overall opinion as to what people thought of the ep.

It is pointless basing it on one critics opinion. If that reviewer is a fan of a particular character then the ep could get a higher rating than it deserved. The rating should be taken on the overall story not just on a particular character.

The rating system at the moment gives a very misleading view of the episodes and there is no way the TRW was liked more than CG.

Sheppard's Delight
September 10th, 2006, 11:36 AM
I agree,

The rating system should be based on the fans votes. At least then we are getting an overall opinion as to what people thought of the ep.

It is pointless basing it on one critics opinion. If that reviewer is a fan of a particular character then the ep could get a higher rating than it deserved. The rating should be taken on the overall story not just on a particular character.

The rating system at the moment gives a very misleading view of the episodes and there is no way the TRW was liked more than CG.


You are so right there is no way that TRW was liked more than Common Ground or Sateda. There is no way in a million years that it got a fan score over 9 without taking some of Common Grounds votes by mistake.

Linzi
September 10th, 2006, 11:53 AM
You are so right there is no way that TRW was liked more than Common Ground or Sateda. There is no way in a million years that it got a fan score over 9 without taking some of Common Grounds votes by mistake.
Absolutely. Just look at the views on the episode thread. Not many people were interested in even looking at the reviews and opinions for TRW. It has the lowest views by a long way. I couldn't even be bothered to write my thoughts on it, because I just didn't feel strongly in its favour or not! It was just - mediocre. Certainly not bad, but not thrilling or particularly interesting as the majority of the rest of season 3 has been. CG was, judging from the amount of votes in the rating poll, (over 6,000 votes!) an episode posters felt strongly about, and the majority of fans rated very highly. I would like that to be reflected in the rating of the episode.

maxbo
September 10th, 2006, 12:15 PM
You are so right there is no way that TRW was liked more than Common Ground or Sateda. There is no way in a million years that it got a fan score over 9 without taking some of Common Grounds votes by mistake.

TRW episode didn't share some of the Common Ground's fan votes, by the day of the tabulation, was literally linked to the Common Ground's ratings so that they were exactly the same. Whatever glitch caused TRW's actual fan votes to disappear should have just zeroed out its results. What happened instead is that after the glitch, TRW was somehow linked to Common Ground so that Common Ground's votes read as TRW's votes also.

If you want to get an idea of what TRW's final fan poll results should have been then look at SG-1's 200. I believe it received a rating in the low to mid 8 range and TRW's fan vote numbers were lower. Over 50% of fans gave 200 as a 10 and under 30% of fans gave TRW a 10.

TRW and Common Ground weren't separated until both were zeroed out later. For some reason, that incorrect high rating was assigned to TRW again, but I think they recently removed it again.

Sheppard's Delight
September 10th, 2006, 12:18 PM
TRW episode didn't share some of the Common Ground's fan votes, by the day of the tabulation, was literally linked to the Common Ground's ratings so that they were exactly the same. Whatever glitch caused TRW's actual fan votes to disappear should have just zeroed out its results. What happened instead is that after the glitch, TRW was somehow linked to Common Ground so that Common Ground's votes read as TRW's votes also.

If you want to get an idea of what TRW's final fan poll results should have been then look at SG-1's 200. I believe it received a rating in the low to mid 8 range and TRW's fan vote numbers were lower. Over 50% of fans gave 200 as a 10 and under 30% of fans gave TRW a 10.

TRW and Common Ground weren't separated until both were zeroed out later. For some reason, that incorrect high rating was assigned to TRW again, but I think they recently removed it again.


Yes it was removed by Darren last night when I queried it. They should just zero out TRW put a notice up and get everyone to vote again. That would be fair.He said that TRW had about a 9.15 before the error happened ( I dont think so) but due to incertainty it was now removed

maxbo
September 10th, 2006, 12:42 PM
Thanks for asking about this.


Yes it was removed by Darren last night when I queried it. They should just zero out TRW put a notice up and get everyone to vote again. That would be fair.He said that TRW had about a 9.15 before the error happened ( I dont think so) but due to incertainty it was now removed

That's not true. TRW never had 9.15 before the error happened. It was assigned 9.15 after the error happened and that's because it was linked to Common Ground's early fan vote numbers.

Because of SG-1's 200 (and the cancellation), I had been tracking the fan votes for 200, and for TRW all week and the day before the fan votes were tabulated here were the results:

52% of fans (20,000+) gave 200 a 10 rating
28% of fans (15,000+) gave TRW a 10 rating

200 received a final fan rating of 8.20, so how could TRW receive a 9.15?

Linzi
September 10th, 2006, 12:54 PM
Thanks for asking about this.



That's not true. TRW never had 9.15 before the error happened. It was assigned 9.15 after the error happened and that's because it was linked to Common Ground's early fan vote numbers.

Because of SG-1's 200 (and the cancellation), I had been tracking the fan votes for 200, and for TRW all week and the day before the fan votes were tabulated here were the results:

52% of fans (20,000+) gave 200 a 10 rating
28% of fans (15,000+) gave TRW a 10 rating

200 received a final fan rating of 8.20, so how could TRW receive a 9.15?
It all sounds very strange to me! Let's hope it can all be sorted out soon. I like polls, but only if they are accurate.

Sheppard's Delight
September 10th, 2006, 01:01 PM
Thanks for asking about this.



That's not true. TRW never had 9.15 before the error happened. It was assigned 9.15 after the error happened and that's because it was linked to Common Ground's early fan vote numbers.

Because of SG-1's 200 (and the cancellation), I had been tracking the fan votes for 200, and for TRW all week and the day before the fan votes were tabulated here were the results:

52% of fans (20,000+) gave 200 a 10 rating
28% of fans (15,000+) gave TRW a 10 rating

200 received a final fan rating of 8.20, so how could TRW receive a 9.15?

I agree it cannot be so but Darrens words were 'The 9.15 fan rating for "TRW" was calculated very shortly after "CG" went up, so it was fairly accurate. Nevertheless, I've pulled it down for the time being.'

It cannot be true - no way!

Linzi
September 10th, 2006, 01:09 PM
I agree it cannot be so but Darrens words were 'The 9.15 fan rating for "TRW" was calculated very shortly after "CG" went up, so it was fairly accurate. Nevertheless, I've pulled it down for the time being.'

It cannot be true - no way!
I can't think it's true, not from the fan response. It must be a glitch, I'd think. No technology is fool proof.

maxbo
September 10th, 2006, 01:22 PM
I agree it cannot be so but Darrens words were 'The 9.15 fan rating for "TRW" was calculated very shortly after "CG" went up, so it was fairly accurate. Nevertheless, I've pulled it down for the time being.'

It cannot be true - not way!

Of course it was calculated very shortly after CG went up, otherwise, there wouldn't have been any fan votes to use in tabulating TRW's numbers since those 15,000+ votes were no longer available at the time of tabulation.

The day of the tabulation, TRW's fan votes were listed as 5,000+
The day before there were 15,000+ fan votes.

The day of the tabulation, 57% of fans had rated TRW a 10.
The day before 28% of fans had rated TRW a 10.

The day of TRW's tabulation, it had 5,000+ fan votes
The day of TRW's tabulation Common Ground also had 5,000+ fan votes.

The day of TRW's tabulation, 57% of fans rated it a 10
The day of TRW's tabulation, 57% of fans had also rated Common Ground a 10.

On the day of tabulation, when I looked closer, I noted that each line from 1 to 10 had the same number of votes for both Common Ground and TRW and that's when I realized what had happened. TRW's 15,000+ votes were gone and the Common Ground's early fan votes had been tabulated as TRW's.

I don't usually pay much attention to polling but I hope this kind of glitch is not common, otherwise, why bother voting?

raiyen
September 10th, 2006, 01:54 PM
Of course it was calculated very shortly after CG went up, otherwise, there wouldn't have been any fan votes to use in tabulating TRW's numbers since those 15,000+ votes were no longer available at the time of tabulation.

The day of the tabulation, TRW's fan votes were listed as 5,000+
The day before there were 15,000+ fan votes.

The day of the tabulation, 57% of fans had rated TRW a 10.
The day before 28% of fans had rated TRW a 10.

The day of TRW's tabulation, it had 5,000+ fan votes
The day of TRW's tabulation Common Ground also had 5,000+ fan votes.

The day of TRW's tabulation, 57% of fans rated it a 10
The day of TRW's tabulation, 57% of fans had also rated Common Ground a 10.

On the day of tabulation, when I looked closer, I noted that each line from 1 to 10 had the same number of votes for both Common Ground and TRW and that's when I realized what had happened. TRW's 15,000+ votes were gone and the Common Ground's early fan votes had been tabulated as TRW's.

I don't usually pay much attention to polling but I hope this kind of glitch is not common, otherwise, why bother voting?
It's interesting that everyone here is talking about "fan polls". My gripe is that on the main season web page, they listed GW Rating (Darren's opinion). GW Rating should reflect Fan Poll because when you vote, it's labeled GW Fan Poll. Darren can use another analogy to let the fans know for a fact that this is how he rated the episode. How about Editor's Rating?

I prefer to see the fan poll results on the main page instead of one person's opinion.

Elinor
September 10th, 2006, 11:47 PM
It's interesting that everyone here is talking about "fan polls". My gripe is that on the main season web page, they listed GW Rating (Darren's opinion). GW Rating should reflect Fan Poll because when you vote, it's labeled GW Fan Poll. Darren can use another analogy to let the fans know for a fact that this is how he rated the episode. How about Editor's Rating?

I prefer to see the fan poll results on the main page instead of one person's opinion.

Yes, that's a good idea.

I must admit I thought the GW rating was the result of the fan poll, but have now learnt it's Darren's own personal rating. It could be made a little clearer I think!

:)

Linzi
September 11th, 2006, 01:26 AM
Yes, that's a good idea.

I must admit I thought the GW rating was the result of the fan poll, but have now learnt it's Darren's own personal rating. It could be made a little clearer I think!

:)
Agreed. I presumed it was a combination of all of the GW PTB's opinions combined with the fan vote. I personally would prefer the fan rating, as there are more fans giving an opinion, and a more balanced view is being given.

caty
September 11th, 2006, 10:05 PM
OK, first chance I got to post here after watching CG... It was the best episode ever!
I was so excited and expected sooo much after the spoilers and promo. The ep actually was even better than I expected, if that's possible.

The way Shep reacted during and after the feedings, throwing back his head with eyes showing the agony he's in... Joe did a great job!
And the team scene after the third feeding was fabulous, especially Ronon.. he looked downright devestated!

There were so many good things about this episode, I can't point out any more...

I'm just surprised that there is only 3 fan reviews, as most people seem to love this eppie... :confused:

Descent
September 11th, 2006, 10:07 PM
I'm just surprised that there is only 3 fan reviews, as most people seem to love this eppie... :confused:

I'm still surprised it got a **1/2 rating on GW. :sheppard33:

Linzi
September 11th, 2006, 11:21 PM
I'm still surprised it got a **1/2 rating on GW. :sheppard33:
You're not the only one...

Sheppard's Delight
September 11th, 2006, 11:55 PM
I'm still surprised it got a **1/2 rating on GW. :sheppard33:


Me too!!!! I guess Darren just didnt like it much.

Elinor
September 12th, 2006, 01:52 AM
Me too!!!! I guess Darren just didnt like it much.

What's not to like?! There was great acting, great tension, touching ending!

Anyone know how to hack into GW and add a couple more stars to that rating then?!!

http://www.websmileys.com/sm/happy/1209.gif

Sheppard's Delight
September 12th, 2006, 03:35 AM
What's not to like?! There was great acting, great tension, touching ending!

Anyone know how to hack into GW and add a couple more stars to that rating then?!!

http://www.websmileys.com/sm/happy/1209.gif


Oh now that is a good idea !!!! :lol: :D :D :D

Linzi
September 12th, 2006, 06:20 AM
Oh now that is a good idea !!!! :lol: :D :D :D
You two are soooo naughty! I like your way of thinking though ;)

caty
September 12th, 2006, 06:41 AM
Yeah, I also wonder what someone couldn't like about the episode...

Tension, great acting, team bonding, learning something new about the Wraith, Kolya... The list goes on and on...

BTW: I just realized that the first part ends in less than 2 weeks... When does it start in Canada again? October 23rd or something? Is that a Tuesday?

PG15
September 12th, 2006, 02:42 PM
It starts on Mondays (and repeats every day) here in the Great White North. :)

caty
September 12th, 2006, 03:09 PM
It starts on Mondays (and repeats every day) here in the Great White North. :)

Repeats every day???? That's weird...

PG15
September 12th, 2006, 05:03 PM
Well, you know them cable channels, they don't have many programs.

EDIT: My bad, it looks like it only repeats the eps on Wednesday and Saturday (and premiers it on Monday).

H Louise
September 13th, 2006, 07:04 AM
The only thing I thought was missing, which is with Stargate in general was the repercussions to what happened to Shep. He's just gone through a traumatic incident and at the end of the ep its like nothing has happened. No lingering emotional effects etc. Even with the death of O'Neill's child etc it only has a few mentions throughout the decade of the show.

caty
September 13th, 2006, 07:37 AM
The only thing I thought was missing, which is with Stargate in general was the repercussions to what happened to Shep. He's just gone through a traumatic incident and at the end of the ep its like nothing has happened. No lingering emotional effects etc. Even with the death of O'Neill's child etc it only has a few mentions throughout the decade of the show.

Yeah, that's always the case with Stargate and I have given up on that a long time ago.. It's just something we will not seeon our show...

Sheppard's Delight
September 13th, 2006, 07:49 AM
The only thing I thought was missing, which is with Stargate in general was the repercussions to what happened to Shep. He's just gone through a traumatic incident and at the end of the ep its like nothing has happened. No lingering emotional effects etc. Even with the death of O'Neill's child etc it only has a few mentions throughout the decade of the show.


Oh indeed that was the one thing that was really missing from Common Ground!

maxbo
September 13th, 2006, 08:10 AM
This consistent lack of on screen follow through is why I now look to fanfic to pick up the slack.

Sheppard's Delight
September 13th, 2006, 08:14 AM
This consistent lack of on screen follow through is why I now look to fanfic to pick up the slack.


You are right! Fanfic is a lifesaver!:)

Linzi
September 13th, 2006, 08:41 AM
This consistent lack of on screen follow through is why I now look to fanfic to pick up the slack.
Agreed. Thank the lord for FF! It would be nice, for once, for something to actually have an impact that lasts for a little while, but I too have accepted that the magic reset button is here to stay on Stargate.

bluealien
September 13th, 2006, 01:35 PM
TPTB seem to take a keen interest in the fan polls and the comments concerning each episode once its been aired. So if the fan polls are not even accurate and the rating system is purely down to one guys opinion TPTB are not even getting an accurate opinion as to what fans really thought of the ep.

If TRW and Common Grounds polls have been mixed up then again TPTB are completley unaware of how well received Common Ground actually was.

Having read Martin Geros comments on what he thought of the episodes he seems to put both TRW and Common Ground into the same category of just good eps. Common Ground in IMO was of a much better standard than TRW and Joes performance deserved some sort of recognition from Martin Gero and TPTB - but once again all we get is a full interview about M&M because it was a walk down memory lane for him. As much as I think David Hewlett deserves recognition I really think that its about time that Joe Flanigan received some as well. Gero is talking about M&M receiving the most fan votes ever -!! how can this be true when CG votes were messed up.

He goes on to call it a fantastic ep and not as much as one comment about Joes Performance in any ep - it would be really nice if the praise could get spread out a bit more evenly and the star of the show could get applauded at least once for his outstanding performance.:S

Sheppard's Delight
September 13th, 2006, 01:44 PM
TPTB seem to take a keen interest in the fan polls and the comments concerning each episode once its been aired. So if the fan polls are not even accurate and the rating system is purely down to one guys opinion TPTB are not even getting an accurate opinion as to what fans really thought of the ep.

If TRW and Common Grounds polls have been mixed up then again TPTB are completley unaware of how well received Common Ground actually was.

Having read Martin Geros comments on what he thought of the episodes he seems to put both TRW and Common Ground into the same category of just good eps. Common Ground in IMO was of a much better standard than TRW and Joes performance deserved some sort of recognition from Martin Gero and TPTB - but once again all we get is a full interview about M&M because it was a walk down memory lane for him. As much as I think David Hewlett deserves recognition I really think that its about time that Joe Flanigan received some as well. Gero is talking about M&M receiving the most fan votes ever -!! how can this be true when CG votes were messed up.

He goes on to call it a fantastic ep and not as much as one comment about Joes Performance in any ep - it would be really nice if the praise could get spread out a bit more evenly and the star of the show could get applauded at least once for his outstanding performance.:S

Oh I agree- it would make a change if once in a while TPTB acknowledged how good Joe was and is! Common Ground was awesome and Joe did a fantastic job. I cant believe that anybody watched that and didnt get blown away with his acting abilities.

I dont think that the comment about the fan votes was that M&MM got the most ever- it was that it got more than the Sg-1 episode ( i think). When I last checked CG had over 7000 (even with the mix up)and M&MM had just over 5000. Dont quote me on that though!;)

bluealien
September 13th, 2006, 02:26 PM
I dont think that the comment about the fan votes was that M&MM got the most ever- it was that it got more than the Sg-1 episode ( i think). When I last checked CG had over 7000 (even with the mix up)and M&MM had just over 5000. Dont quote me on that though!;)

Yes you are right - seemingly it was the first time that an Atlantis ep received more votes than SG1. But again how accurate is that - the votes were very high for CG before they disappeared so how can we make an accurate tally. I don't think he should be comparing SG1 votes to Atlantis votes anyway.

It just peeved me that no matter how good a performance Joe gives he never seems to get any recognition from TPTB and I think that it is a shame. The eps should be praised on their storyline and performances and not just because they have personal issues in them for the writers.

Linzi
September 13th, 2006, 02:40 PM
Oh I agree- it would make a change if once in a while TPTB acknowledged how good Joe was and is! Common Ground was awesome and Joe did a fantastic job. I cant believe that anybody watched that and didnt get blown away with his acting abilities.

I dont think that the comment about the fan votes was that M&MM got the most ever- it was that it got more than the Sg-1 episode ( i think). When I last checked CG had over 7000 (even with the mix up)and M&MM had just over 5000. Dont quote me on that though!;)
Those votes certainly looked that way when I last checked. To be frank, I get a little fed up with the constant praising of of DH and the fact that Joe hardly gets a mention from TPTB universally. I also have to say, honestly, that I thought the GW interview with Martin was a little obsequious in places too.
I just hope TPTB and especially Ken C come here and realise how popular Common Ground was with the fans. I'd hate for them to get the opinion that fans didn't rate the episode highly, because that wouldn't be accurate from what I've seen here, and from the fan vote.
Common Ground was a great episode, in my opinion, and judging from the fan votes, and interest in the thread, it beats The Real World by a wide margin. I'd never put those two episodes side by side when considering quality of plot, writing or acting. Of course, that's just my opinion. Though judging from the lack of fan interest in TRW that appears to be mirrored by quite a few fans.
I really prefer a fan rating for episodes as a personal rating doesn't reflect what the fans here necessarily think, and, in fact can be quite misleading, in my opinion, especially if it's not clear what the ratings mean and who has given them.

Linzi
September 13th, 2006, 02:42 PM
It just peeved me that no matter how good a performance Joe gives he never seems to get any recognition from TPTB and I think that it is a shame. The eps should be praised on their storyline and performances and not just because they were have personal issues in them for the writers.
I agree wholeheartedly. Whether one likes Joe's performances or not, and I gather Brad Wright did like CG very much, it would be nice to read some praise from MR. Gero about an actor OTHER than Mr. Hewlett.

Sheppard's Delight
September 13th, 2006, 02:44 PM
Those votes certainly looked that way when I last checked. To be frank, I get a little fed up with the constant praising of of DH and the fact that Joe hardly gets a mention from TPTB universally. I also have to say, honestly, that I thought the GW interview with Martin was a little obsequious in places too.
I just hope TPTB and especially Ken C come here and realise how popular Common Ground was with the fans. I'd hate for them to get the opinion that fans didn't rate the episode highly, because that wouldn't be accurate from what I've seen here, and from the fan vote.
Common Ground was a great episode, in my opinion, and judging from the fan votes, and interest in the thread, it beats The Real World by a wide margin. I'd never put those two episodes side by side when considering quality of plot, writing or acting. Of course, that's just my opinion. Though judging from the lack of fan interest in TRW that appears to be mirrored by quite a few fans.
I really prefer a fan rating for episodes as a personal rating doesn't reflect what the fans here necessarily think, and, in fact can be quite misleading, in my opinion, especially if it's not clear what the ratings mean and who has given them.

I agree to all that you said!!

I personally didnt understand the Gateworld Ratings system until I queried it so I guess that I was not alone.

bluealien
September 13th, 2006, 03:02 PM
Those votes certainly looked that way when I last checked. To be frank, I get a little fed up with the constant praising of of DH and the fact that Joe hardly gets a mention from TPTB universally. I also have to say, honestly, that I thought the GW interview with Martin was a little obsequious in places too.
I just hope TPTB and especially Ken C come here and realise how popular Common Ground was with the fans. I'd hate for them to get the opinion that fans didn't rate the episode highly, because that wouldn't be accurate from what I've seen here, and from the fan vote.
Common Ground was a great episode, in my opinion, and judging from the fan votes, and interest in the thread, it beats The Real World by a wide margin. I'd never put those two episodes side by side when considering quality of plot, writing or acting. Of course, that's just my opinion. Though judging from the lack of fan interest in TRW that appears to be mirrored by quite a few fans.
I really prefer a fan rating for episodes as a personal rating doesn't reflect what the fans here necessarily think, and, in fact can be quite misleading, in my opinion, especially if it's not clear what the ratings mean and who has given them.

I completley agree ...

At least BamBam has passed on to Joe how much we appreciate his performance and how great we think he is, and also what an exceptional job he did in Common Ground.

Yay - I've reached 400 posts.

raiyen
September 13th, 2006, 06:13 PM
Those votes certainly looked that way when I last checked. To be frank, I get a little fed up with the constant praising of of DH and the fact that Joe hardly gets a mention from TPTB universally. I also have to say, honestly, that I thought the GW interview with Martin was a little obsequious in places too.
I just hope TPTB and especially Ken C come here and realise how popular Common Ground was with the fans. I'd hate for them to get the opinion that fans didn't rate the episode highly, because that wouldn't be accurate from what I've seen here, and from the fan vote.
Common Ground was a great episode, in my opinion, and judging from the fan votes, and interest in the thread, it beats The Real World by a wide margin. I'd never put those two episodes side by side when considering quality of plot, writing or acting. Of course, that's just my opinion. Though judging from the lack of fan interest in TRW that appears to be mirrored by quite a few fans.
I really prefer a fan rating for episodes as a personal rating doesn't reflect what the fans here necessarily think, and, in fact can be quite misleading, in my opinion, especially if it's not clear what the ratings mean and who has given them.
Any ideas on how we can get Gateworld (Darren) to change the main season page to reflect the fan poll instead and make sure he uses GW Rating as the fan poll and not the editor's rating? If we are thinking this way, wouldn't the tptb think the same?

Linzi
September 14th, 2006, 04:01 AM
I completley agree ...

At least BamBam has passed on to Joe how much we appreciate his performance and how great we think he is, and also what an exceptional job he did in Common Ground.

Yay - I've reached 400 posts.
I'm glad BamBam did that. At least Joe knows his fans appreciated his hard work in Common ground. Congrats on 400 posts!!!!

maxbo
September 14th, 2006, 02:16 PM
Any ideas on how we can get Gateworld (Darren) to change the main season page to reflect the fan poll instead and make sure he uses GW Rating as the fan poll and not the editor's rating? If we are thinking this way, wouldn't the tptb think the same?

You may want to either PM Darren or head over to the Forum Announcements and Help section and suggest this in the Suggestions thread.

I would love to see the Fan Poll results displayed first, not only because the Fan Poll results represents the opinions of more viewers, but also because we can then head over to the episode threads to get an idea of why viewers voted the way they did. With the Gateworld star system, we don't get anything but the stars so we have no idea why one episode was given 4 stars and another was rated much lower.

raiyen
September 14th, 2006, 05:35 PM
You may want to either PM Darren or head over to the Forum Announcements and Help section and suggest this in the Suggestions thread.

I would love to see the Fan Poll results displayed first, not only because the Fan Poll results represents the opinions of more viewers, but also because we can then head over to the episode threads to get an idea of why viewers voted the way they did. With the Gateworld star system, we don't get anything but the stars so we have no idea why one episode was given 4 stars and another was rated much lower.
Sounds like it is going to take a lot of us to change their mind. I mean Darren is the head of this website.

lily
September 14th, 2006, 09:17 PM
I think the best way of letting TPTB know that one loved Joe's acting in Common Ground is to write a letter and send it by snail mail to TPTB at Bridge Studios. So if you like Common Ground, you could send a letter to Brad Wright and let him know why you liked it, etc.

Personally, for me this epi is a 10/10. I loved it! But then, to be honest, I've loved all the s3 epis so far.

My rating right now is as follows:

No Man's Land: 9/10
Misbegotten: 8/10
Irresistible: 8/10
Sateda: 10/10
Progeny: 10/10
The Real World: 9/10
Common Ground: 10/10
McKay and Mrs Miller: 10/10

Linzi
September 15th, 2006, 03:29 AM
I think the best way of letting TPTB know that one loved Joe's acting in Common Ground is to write a letter and send it by snail mail to TPTB at Bridge Studios. So if you like Common Ground, you could send a letter to Brad Wright and let him know why you liked it, etc.

Personally, for me this epi is a 10/10. I loved it! But then, to be honest, I've loved all the s3 epis so far.

My rating right now is as follows:

No Man's Land: 9/10
Misbegotten: 8/10
Irresistible: 8/10
Sateda: 10/10
Progeny: 10/10
The Real World: 9/10
Common Ground: 10/10
McKay and Mrs Miller: 10/10
I think TPTB do lurk here on occasion, well the writers certainly do, and I'm sure they know how much fans such as us enjoyed CG, both Joe's performance, and Chris', as well as Ken's brilliant writing of the episode. Writing to show support is a lovely idea though, and it has to be nice for TPTB to receive letters praising the show rather than the opposite.
Hope it's not too OT, but my ratings are:

No Man's Land: 9/10
Misbegotten: 8/10
Irresistible: 9/10
Sateda: 10/10
Progeny: 9/10
The Real World: 6/10
Common Ground: 10/10
McKay and Mrs Miller: 9/10 - was 8/10 but went up on second viewing, lol!

Descent
September 15th, 2006, 03:48 AM
Ken is my second favorite SGA writer now, hes definately got some creative talent.

For me it goes:
No Man's Land - 9/10
Misbegotten - 7/10
Irresistable - 8/10
Sateda -10/10
Progeny - 9/10
The Real World - 7/10
Common Ground - 10/10
Mckay and Mrs.Miller - 9/10

Definately the best season so far for me.

Linzi
September 15th, 2006, 04:14 AM
Ken is my second favorite SGA writer now, hes definately got some creative talent.

For me it goes:
No Man's Land - 9/10
Misbegotten - 7/10
Irresistable - 8/10
Sateda -10/10
Progeny - 9/10
The Real World - 7/10
Common Ground - 10/10
Mckay and Mrs.Miller - 9/10

Definately the best season so far for me.
Best season for me too. They've really excelled themselves so far, and the writers have shown they can write original stories with great team interaction and characterisation. Ken C is my new favourite writer!

lily
September 15th, 2006, 06:14 AM
Best season for me too. They've really excelled themselves so far, and the writers have shown they can write original stories with great team interaction and characterisation. Ken C is my new favourite writer!

Oh, yeah. I agree 100000% :D

Ken C is my new fave writer. Carl Binder (who used to be my 1st one) is now 2nd. Martin Gero is 3rd. The 3 of them are the best, IMHO.

Sheppard's Delight
September 15th, 2006, 07:19 AM
Ken is my second favorite SGA writer now, hes definately got some creative talent.

For me it goes:
No Man's Land - 9/10
Misbegotten - 7/10
Irresistable - 8/10
Sateda -10/10
Progeny - 9/10
The Real World - 7/10
Common Ground - 10/10
Mckay and Mrs.Miller - 9/10

Definately the best season so far for me.

Okay I have to join in

For me it goes:
No Man's Land - 8/10
Misbegotten - 7/10
Irresistable - 8/10
Sateda -10/10
Progeny - 8/10
The Real World - 6/10
Common Ground - 11/10 ;)
Mckay and Mrs.Miller - 9/10

I know we have only seen one episode but Ken is my new favourite writer!

Elinor
September 15th, 2006, 09:40 AM
Oh...I'm not very good at giving marks out of ten...but I will say s3 is the best one so far. Even friends who watch Atlantis, but are not involved in fandom, are saying this to me!

Ken C is a wonderful writer. I think all the writers have done an excellent job this year, but if Ken's future episodes are as good as this one then...yeah...he will be my fave to!

I'm sure TPTB do think highly of Joe, but I think they need to say that in interviews etc. a bit more. In a recent interview, Joe said that 'Brad & Robert, and Brad in particular, have been really great to work with this year. They're just very receptive about working together on some ideas. They're just very receptive about the comments I have about Sheppard & the show and everything else. That, psychologically, gives you a lot of comfort. You feel like you're collaborating instead of clocking in at work.' Personally, I don't think they would be doing that if they didn't think highly of him...but yes...I'd like to see it expressed more please!

http://www.websmileys.com/sm/happy/597.gif

Linzi
September 15th, 2006, 12:38 PM
Oh...I'm not very good at giving marks out of ten...but I will say s3 is the best one so far. Even friends who watch Atlantis, but are not involved in fandom, are saying this to me!

Ken C is a wonderful writer. I think all the writers have done an excellent job this year, but if Ken's future episodes are as good as this one then...yeah...he will be my fave to!

I'm sure TPTB do think highly of Joe, but I think they need to say that in interviews etc. a bit more. In a recent interview, Joe said that 'Brad & Robert, and Brad in particular, have been really great to work with this year. They're just very receptive about working together on some ideas. They're just very receptive about the comments I have about Sheppard & the show and everything else. That, psychologically, gives you a lot of comfort. You feel like you're collaborating instead of clocking in at work.' Personally, I don't think they would be doing that if they didn't think highly of him...but yes...I'd like to see it expressed more please!

http://www.websmileys.com/sm/happy/597.gif
Very true, Eli! As you say, it would just be nice for us to hear every now and then!

bluealien
September 15th, 2006, 01:28 PM
My ratings for season three so far.

No Mans Land 9/10
Misbegotten 8/10
Irresistable 7/10
Sateda 10/10
Progeny 6/10
The Real World 4/10
Common Ground 10/10
M&MM 8/10

Dark Falcon
September 15th, 2006, 03:41 PM
I have one question regarding "Common Ground".
Why didn't it get a "TV-14" rating?

I found the part where Sheppard stabs some Genii soldiers in
the throat to be fairly nasty. I'm surprised that this ep. simply
recieved a "TV-PG" rating after that nasty moment.

areghnatha
September 16th, 2006, 02:27 AM
Finally... Finally I have seen this great episode... *** computer!!!
This was the best SGA episode I have ever seen...

Both, Wraith AND humans keep their word, the Wraith survives this episode and we will have the chance to see him again!!!
But I do not understand, why Sheppard has stunned the Wraith. They could have brought him to the planet unstunned...

After NML and Misbegotten I never thought that Sheppard would keep his word. Hopefully Ken will write more for SGA.

Here are my ratings:
No Man's Land - 9/10
Misbegotten - 6/10
Irresistable - 4/10
Sateda -10/10
Progeny - 9/10
The Real World - 8/10
Common Ground - 11/10
Mckay and Mrs.Miller - have not seen it so far :(

Linzi
September 19th, 2006, 06:44 AM
Finally... Finally I have seen this great episode... *** computer!!!
This was the best SGA episode I have ever seen...

Both, Wraith AND humans keep their word, the Wraith survives this episode and we will have the chance to see him again!!!
But I do not understand, why Sheppard has stunned the Wraith. They could have brought him to the planet unstunned...

After NML and Misbegotten I never thought that Sheppard would keep his word. Hopefully Ken will write more for SGA.

Here are my ratings:
No Man's Land - 9/10
Misbegotten - 6/10
Irresistable - 4/10
Sateda -10/10
Progeny - 9/10
The Real World - 8/10
Common Ground - 11/10
Mckay and Mrs.Miller - have not seen it so far :(
Ken is writing a couple more episodes I believe, one being The Ark, another possibly being Submersion, not positive on that one though. Good times ahead with Ken writing, I think!

Dr McKay
September 28th, 2006, 09:23 AM
10/10 really liked this episode, especially what we learnt about the wraith being able to give life as well as take it away, that was great!

Demonique
September 28th, 2006, 06:12 PM
I'm surprised the slashers have left this ep alone. Steve would have cheerfully drained Shep to a cinder and yet people still slash them, you'd have thought that after an ep featuring a wraith who was actually friendly towards Shep we'd be up to our ears in shep/wraith slash fic


I wonder if we'll see this wraith again? Or even if we'd recognise him again, the first thing he probably did when he got to his hive ship (after having a good feed, of course) was have a good scrub down.

Dr McKay
September 29th, 2006, 01:46 PM
I'm surprised the slashers have left this ep alone. Steve would have cheerfully drained Shep to a cinder and yet people still slash them, you'd have thought that after an ep featuring a wraith who was actually friendly towards Shep we'd be up to our ears in shep/wraith slash fic


I wonder if we'll see this wraith again? Or even if we'd recognise him again, the first thing he probably did when he got to his hive ship (after having a good feed, of course) was have a good scrub down.


im expecting to see him again, because they made it clear, more than once that if they met again all bets were off. i think theres a high chance of it! possibly where the wraith spares his life in return for saving his/helping him break out the first time they met.

Linzi
September 29th, 2006, 02:04 PM
im expecting to see him again, because they made it clear, more than once that if they met again all bets were off. i think theres a high chance of it! possibly where the wraith spares his life in return for saving his/helping him break out the first time they met.
I, for one, really hope we do see that wraith again. He was a fantastic character, and I actually, for the first time, found myself empathising with, and liking a wraith. It would be an incredible waste not to use him again. Chris did such a wonderful job, and he and Joe obviously have such wonderful chemistry, it would be a shame not to capitalise on that.

Sheppard's Delight
September 29th, 2006, 02:09 PM
I, for one, really hope we do see that wraith again. He was a fantastic character, and I actually, for the first time, found myself empathising with, and liking a wraith. It would be an incredible waste not to use him again. Chris did such a wonderful job, and he and Joe obviously have such wonderful chemistry, it would be a shame not to capitalise on that.


Oh I agree 100% !!!!!!!:) :)

ken_is_here
September 29th, 2006, 02:59 PM
Hi all,

I recorded a commentary for "Common Ground" yesterday (for the season three box set of course), and one of the things I talked about was how much I would like to do a follow up to the episode.

So I am working on a pitch... We'll see what happens.

Ken C

Descent
September 29th, 2006, 03:01 PM
I recorded a commentary for "Common Ground" yesterday (for the season three box set of course), and one of the things I talked about was how much I would like to do a follow up to the episode.

So I am working on a pitch... We'll see what happens.

ooo commentary :cool:

Awesome Ken, good luck with the pitch. I would love a follow up. :sheppard:

Linzi
September 29th, 2006, 03:32 PM
Hi all,

I recorded a commentary for "Common Ground" yesterday (for the season three box set of course), and one of the things I talked about was how much I would like to do a follow up to the episode.

So I am working on a pitch... We'll see what happens.

Ken C
Wonderful! I'll look forward to listening to your commentary! Good luck with the pitch. I know alot of fans would be delighted to see your idea made into an episode, me included!

Sheppard's Delight
September 29th, 2006, 03:35 PM
Hi all,

I recorded a commentary for "Common Ground" yesterday (for the season three box set of course), and one of the things I talked about was how much I would like to do a follow up to the episode.

So I am working on a pitch... We'll see what happens.

Ken C


Oh me too!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :) :) :) :) :) :)

Cant wait to hear the commentary too!!

Alipeeps
September 29th, 2006, 03:41 PM
Hi all,

I recorded a commentary for "Common Ground" yesterday (for the season three box set of course), and one of the things I talked about was how much I would like to do a follow up to the episode.

So I am working on a pitch... We'll see what happens.

Ken C

Oh wow! Can't wait to watch the commentary - can I be cheeky and ask who (if anyone) did the commentary with you? Joe and Chris would be awesome!! :D

Get working on that pitch - you created an incredibly layered, interesting character in Common Ground and I'd love to see him again in another episode... and seeing how Sheppard would react to meeting him again!

WannaBeAWhumper
September 29th, 2006, 04:03 PM
Hi all,

I recorded a commentary for "Common Ground" yesterday (for the season three box set of course), and one of the things I talked about was how much I would like to do a follow up to the episode.

So I am working on a pitch... We'll see what happens.

Ken C

OMG, Ken!!! That would be totally awesome. As soon as the credits rolled on CG I was saying...we need more of this! They've got to meet again! Good luck with the pitch...and if TPTB need convincing...just send them to us! :D

By the way...CG was/is the best SGA episode ever, imho. And I can't wait to hear your thoughts on the audio commentary. I'd buy the box set just for that. *snort* As if I wouldn't be buying the box set the day it hits the stores anyway...

WannaBe

Dr McKay
September 29th, 2006, 06:08 PM
I, for one, really hope we do see that wraith again. He was a fantastic character, and I actually, for the first time, found myself empathising with, and liking a wraith. It would be an incredible waste not to use him again. Chris did such a wonderful job, and he and Joe obviously have such wonderful chemistry, it would be a shame not to capitalise on that.

i agree, it would be really cool if we did, thats the first wraith i liked and possibly felt a little sorry for!

Elinor
September 30th, 2006, 12:57 AM
Hi all,

I recorded a commentary for "Common Ground" yesterday (for the season three box set of course), and one of the things I talked about was how much I would like to do a follow up to the episode.

So I am working on a pitch... We'll see what happens.

Ken C

Hi Ken!

Oh yes...we would REALLY love a follow up to CG. It was such a fab story! Hope it happens!

http://www.websmileys.com/sm/happy/1405.gif

Linzi
September 30th, 2006, 02:03 PM
Hi Ken!

Oh yes...we would REALLY love a follow up to CG. It was such a fab story! Hope it happens!

http://www.websmileys.com/sm/happy/1405.gif
Oh yes, me too! Look how popular CG has turned out to be. Probably the most popular Sheppard centric episode to date with fans, judging from the comments here. I really hope TPTB pick up this idea!

Gate Geek
October 1st, 2006, 11:40 AM
Hi all,

I recorded a commentary for "Common Ground" yesterday (for the season three box set of course), and one of the things I talked about was how much I would like to do a follow up to the episode.

So I am working on a pitch... We'll see what happens.

Ken C

SQUEE!!!! That is fantastic! I can't wait to hear what you have to say about CG.

As for another follow up episode pitch.....Please please please let it come to fruition!!! Now I'm giddy with anticipation!

Lauriel
October 1st, 2006, 01:01 PM
Hi all,

I recorded a commentary for "Common Ground" yesterday (for the season three box set of course), and one of the things I talked about was how much I would like to do a follow up to the episode.

So I am working on a pitch... We'll see what happens.

Ken C
WOW! A follow-up to CG would be fantastic! I loved that ep - its my favourite so far. I'd love to see what would happen if Shep were to meet the Wraith again! :D

obsessed1
October 3rd, 2006, 05:36 PM
Hi all,

I recorded a commentary for "Common Ground" yesterday (for the season three box set of course), and one of the things I talked about was how much I would like to do a follow up to the episode.

So I am working on a pitch... We'll see what happens.

Ken C
Coooool! :D

pitch for all you're worth :D we want to see a follow up! ;)

prion
October 5th, 2006, 03:21 PM
Hi all,

I recorded a commentary for "Common Ground" yesterday (for the season three box set of course), and one of the things I talked about was how much I would like to do a follow up to the episode.

So I am working on a pitch... We'll see what happens.

Ken C

Cool. When's it due out? I'm sorta hoping 2007 and not 2008.....! ;)

and COMMON GROUND definitely deserves a follow-up, with either Wraith or Kolya!

RDAOWNS
October 6th, 2006, 08:36 PM
Aw man what an amazing episode. Brilliant move by the writers to add depth to the Wraith and set up an inevitable meeting in the future between Sheppard and that wraith. Blurring the boundaries of good and evil is essential for the longevity of the show as it creates emotional conflict in the viewers.

Linzi
October 6th, 2006, 11:42 PM
Aw man what an amazing episode. Brilliant move by the writers to add depth to the Wraith and set up an inevitable meeting in the future between Sheppard and that wraith. Blurring the boundaries of good and evil is essential for the longevity of the show as it creates emotional conflict in the viewers.
Agreed, that is one of the reasons I found CG so compelling. It really made me see the wraith in a new light; they're not evil, not that I ever thought they were, but here I learned they do have a sense of humour and are creatures of a certain ethical code - or, at least this one was. I've watched the episode so many times and still enjoy it as much as I did the first time!

Elinor
October 25th, 2006, 07:01 AM
Blurring the boundaries of good and evil is essential for the longevity of the show as it creates emotional conflict in the viewers.

Gosh...yes...that's a good quote...'blurring the boundaries of good and evil'!

I really would like to see more of the relationship the Wraith have with their worshippers and also their so-called 'brothers'.

Hope Ken Cuperus is given the opportunity to explore this.

:)

Sheppard's Delight
October 25th, 2006, 07:12 AM
Gosh...yes...that's a good quote...'blurring the boundaries of good and evil'!

I really would like to see more of the relationship the Wraith have with their worshippers and also their so-called 'brothers'.

Hope Ken Cuperus is given the opportunity to explore this.

:)

Oh I agree!!!!!

I cant wait to see what happens if we do get a follow up ep in Season 4!!!

Linzi
October 25th, 2006, 08:23 AM
Gosh...yes...that's a good quote...'blurring the boundaries of good and evil'!

I really would like to see more of the relationship the Wraith have with their worshippers and also their so-called 'brothers'.

Hope Ken Cuperus is given the opportunity to explore this.

:)
I agree. I really hope this is explored further in season 4 by Ken C. :)

Alipeeps
October 25th, 2006, 08:30 AM
Ken C rules. That is all. :D

Linzi
October 25th, 2006, 08:44 AM
Ken C rules. That is all. :D
Ditto. :)

Rootortoise
October 25th, 2006, 09:04 AM
agreed 100000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000%

common ground ROCKS!!

MissX
November 3rd, 2006, 03:56 PM
Yep Roo, I agree ;)

lily
November 8th, 2006, 06:34 AM
Ken C rules. That is all. :D

Yeah, I voted for him as my fave author in the official Stargate magazine poll :D

susanne
November 16th, 2006, 02:37 AM
omg i loved common ground! when shepperd was getting fed on i was hiding behind a pillow! :eek: and my friend psychobrez was the same! it so rocked the scales!!!! and the wraith in it! :eek: he is so cool :D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

JohnSheppard28
November 25th, 2006, 09:48 PM
I just noticed this but in the Season 2 episode Coup de tat (or however you spell it) Ladon comes to Atlantis and at that time it is explained to Ronan who he is and who Koyla was etc. However, In Common Ground it gets explained to Ronan AGAIN and he behaves as if he'd never heard it before.

PG15
November 25th, 2006, 11:48 PM
Are you sure they explained it to Ronan in Coup d'Etat? Remember that Ronan and Teyla were out investigating the pictures and had their own little storyline.

JohnSheppard28
November 26th, 2006, 07:51 AM
Yeah, when Ladon first calls and Sheppard identifies him as "one of Kolya's men" Ronan is standing right there and doesn't look at all confused like he didn't know who he was. Not only that but with him standing right there Weir says, "Don't think I don't recognize you, Ladon. You're a member of Kolya's strike force. You tried to forcibly take this city from us. Why would we want to do business with you?" Later they're all in the conference room talking about it. It's only after that that Ronan and Teyla are sent off on investigation on their own. Ronan does appear to recognize Ladon when he come through in Common Ground and he does ask who Kolya is before anyone has said his name so that makes sense but then Teyla goes back into the "Genii military leader who once tried to sieze Atlantis. Ladon was a member of his strike team" which she shouldn't have had to do since Ronan alrady knew AND Ronan gives Ladon a dirty look like he hadn't know BUT perhaps I'm just reading way to much into it. I do that a lot. :)

Alipeeps
November 26th, 2006, 04:23 PM
I just noticed this but in the Season 2 episode Coup de tat (or however you spell it) Ladon comes to Atlantis and at that time it is explained to Ronan who he is and who Koyla was etc. However, In Common Ground it gets explained to Ronan AGAIN and he behaves as if he'd never heard it before.


Yeah, when Ladon first calls and Sheppard identifies him as "one of Kolya's men" Ronan is standing right there and doesn't look at all confused like he didn't know who he was. Not only that but with him standing right there Weir says, "Don't think I don't recognize you, Ladon. You're a member of Kolya's strike force. You tried to forcibly take this city from us. Why would we want to do business with you?" Later they're all in the conference room talking about it. It's only after that that Ronan and Teyla are sent off on investigation on their own. Ronan does appear to recognize Ladon when he come through in Common Ground and he does ask who Kolya is before anyone has said his name so that makes sense but then Teyla goes back into the "Genii military leader who once tried to sieze Atlantis. Ladon was a member of his strike team" which she shouldn't have had to do since Ronan alrady knew AND Ronan gives Ladon a dirty look like he hadn't know BUT perhaps I'm just reading way to much into it. I do that a lot. :)

I've just been rewatching Coup d'Etat and actually Ronon and Teyla - and Rodney - are not there when Ladon first calls and Weir says "Don't think I don't recognize you, Ladon. You're a member of Kolya's strike force. You tried to forcibly take this city from us. Why would we want to do business with you?" Only Weir and Sheppard are there. And at no point in the conference scene does anyone describe who Laden is (in terms of him being part of the strike force that attacked the city) or mention Kolya. So I don't think Ronon would have known about Ladon's association with Kolya or the attempted raid of Atlantis from this ep.

JohnSheppard28
November 26th, 2006, 04:42 PM
You're right, I thought he was there the first time but it's just Sheppard and Weir. He is there in the conference room, I checked the transcript BUT they don't actually discuss Ladon's past (I can't get the episode right now so maybe they changed it or I'm misreading it). He is in the infirmary where they discuss that the dead bodies are Genii. I guess I'm just assuming that somewhere he'd have asked who the Genii were and someone would have told him BUT maybe they just assumed he knew because they were talking about it and Ronan is so quiet anyway that he never brought it up. I'm drawing conclusions, I tend to get in trouble when I do that! :D

Alipeeps
November 26th, 2006, 04:47 PM
You're right, I thought he was there the first time but it's just Sheppard and Weir. He is there in the conference room, I checked the transcript BUT they don't actually discuss Ladon's past (I can't get the episode right now so maybe they changed it or I'm misreading it). He is in the infirmary where they discuss that the dead bodies are Genii. I guess I'm just assuming that somewhere he'd have asked who the Genii were and someone would have told him BUT maybe they just assumed he knew because they were talking about it and Ronan is so quiet anyway that he never brought it up. I'm drawing conclusions, I tend to get in trouble when I do that! :D

I'm guessing they would probably have given him a potted history of the Genii.. as in, "They're a technologically advanced race who we tried to form an alliance with but they double-crossed us and tried to steal a jumper and take Sheppard's team hostage and then they tried to raid and capture the city." But I doubt they would have specifically mentioned e.g. Kolya by name so Ronon wouldn't know who Kolya was and that's why it was a surprise and he glared at Ladon when in CG they explained that Kolya was the guy who tried to seize Atlantis and that Ladon was right there with him.

JohnSheppard28
November 26th, 2006, 04:52 PM
Oh okay, now that makes sense! I wasn't thinking of it that way until you just mentioned. I was thinking it was a "you jerk, I already didn't like you and now I have a reason" glare BUT it could just as easily have been a "oh, yeah, that's ANOTHER reason I don't like you and ESPECIALLY now that I know you're associated with this other guy." Okay, cool. I do misinterpret things sometimes. I'll be like "Oh looky, he's angry at that guy" and my friends will be like "are you insane, he's like happy to see him." Then I'll normally say something like "Well, it's POSSIBLE that could be an angry look" and they will say, "No, no it's not." :D :D I am happy now, CG is one of my most favorite episodes which is why I've watched it enough to be able to remember facial expressions of various characters.

Elite Anubis Guard
November 29th, 2006, 02:15 PM
This has to have been one of my favorite episodes of Atlantis. The very idea of Sheppard having team up with a Wraith is exciting. This was a fantastic episode with some great character moments. I absolutely LOVED the interaction between Sheppard and the Wraith. I'm really hoping we do see him again and I'm very glad that no-one killed him.

Although I did pretty much guess that they could give life back somewhere towards the end of Act 1, it was still nice to see it happen. We could say the two shared something special and that is why I really want to see him come back.

The dedication Ronnan showed towards getting Sheppard back was fantastic, and the scene with Rodney giving his "by the numbers" speach was just lovely. I love the feeling of friendship that we get in this episode. It's just been so long since I felt it in SG1.

Overall, fantastic episode, fantastic acting, fantastic episode.

Alipeeps
November 29th, 2006, 02:19 PM
I've said it before, I'll say it again.

Ken Cuperus rocks.

That is all. :D

Luz
November 29th, 2006, 02:23 PM
I've said it before, I'll say it again.

Ken Cuperus rocks.

That is all. :D
I want to bake him cookies, and offer him my first born. ;)

Lauriel
November 29th, 2006, 02:29 PM
I've said it before, I'll say it again.

Ken Cuperus rocks.

That is all. :D


I want to bake him cookies, and offer him my first born. ;)

:lol::lol: @ both of you. I totally, 100% agree of course, but LOL anyway. :D

Sheppard's Delight
November 29th, 2006, 02:30 PM
:lol::lol: @ both of you. I totally, 100% agree of course, but LOL anyway. :D

Well with all this love floating around I hope that Ken looks out for us Shep whumpers ;) in season 4!!!!!:)

Lauriel
November 29th, 2006, 02:40 PM
Well with all this love floating around I hope that Ken looks out for us Shep whumpers ;) in season 4!!!!!:)

Me too. If he does, I vote we adopt him into WASP as an honourary member.:)

Buba uognarf
November 29th, 2006, 02:42 PM
great episode, one of my all time favourites...

just one question did anyone notice n remorse in Kolya's face when he was torturing sheppard?

Sheppard's Delight
November 30th, 2006, 12:43 AM
great episode, one of my all time favourites...

just one question did anyone notice n remorse in Kolya's face when he was torturing sheppard?


Oh yes indeed - at one point he looked totally repulsed at what he was doing to poor Sheppy. I also liked the fact that Sheppy remained totally defiant throughout and managed to look Kolya in the eye at the end of every feed!

Alipeeps
November 30th, 2006, 02:04 AM
Well with all this love floating around I hope that Ken looks out for us Shep whumpers ;) in season 4!!!!!:)


Me too. If he does, I vote we adopt him into WASP as an honourary member.:)

OH indeed! Maybe we should start a campaign right now? "Want whump in S4? Send cookies to Ken!" :D :D

Matt G
November 30th, 2006, 04:18 PM
1. Good to see Kolya back and on solid form.

2. Also liked his McKay snark.

3. Dex grabbing Laden early on got a :D from me.

4. Liked the Shep-Wraith relationship on the whole...

5. ...however the 'life giving' though an interesting bit of info was the dumbest deus ex machina of all time! They'd have been better off if the Wraith had had so little feeding time it had no effect on Sheppard!

Better than TRW though.

Lauriel
November 30th, 2006, 06:44 PM
5. ...however the 'life giving' though an interesting bit of info was the dumbest deus ex machina of all time! They'd have been better off if the Wraith had had so little feeding time it had no effect on Sheppard!

I disagree. I see what you're saying, and it was necessary to have some way to restore him to have this ep work, but I think this was the best way. They couldn't not have the Wraith feeding on Shep work, because it is already in canon that they can feed on Anceints, so his ATA gene is no protection (I think that is what you were referring to?). If Carson had of come up with some medical solution it would be both lame and reduce the threat of the Wraith in future eps. This was the best solution out of any I can think of, and with the development of the emotional bond between Shep and the Wraith I found it quite an endearing ending.


Better than TRW though.

I completely, wholeheartedly, fervently agree with this statement! :D :D

~Benjamin~
December 1st, 2006, 03:47 PM
loved this episode i think it will be one of my favourites (i will add it to my list :D ) i would give this episode a 10/10
loved near the end with mckay saying shep was now younger that made me crack up laughing

Linzi
December 3rd, 2006, 03:02 AM
loved this episode i think it will be one of my favourites (i will add it to my list :D ) i would give this episode a 10/10
loved near the end with mckay saying shep was now younger that made me crack up laughing
You know he did look younger to me! I think it was just that I'd got used to seeing Shep as really old, but to suddenly see him youthful again...it was quite astounding really! This is still my favourite episode of season 3.

MechaThor
December 3rd, 2006, 03:46 AM
This was a great episode. I am starting to like Atlanmtis a lot more than the recent SG-1 episodees. Especaillyt if thye keep up episodes like this one.

That Wraith was great. They just keep getting more and more intresting (well apart the whole retrovirus/human thing.

Is it just me or do you feel for the Wraith in this ep and completely understand how it feels from its point of view.

Hope he returns oneday....

Isil'zha
December 4th, 2006, 04:28 PM
Have to agree with MechaThor-I certainly found myself with empathy towards the Wraith. And I was quite pleased that the team didn't go hair-trigger on him at the end.

Can't say I completely understand though-I've never been starving. Or a prisoner.

Plus the whole concept of a bulimic Wraith cracks me up every time.

Anyone know if Ken likes French Silk Pie (or banana cream)? Or I can always make cookies.

Terrah
December 5th, 2006, 04:44 PM
What a great episode, definitely one of my favourites, I agree with everything Isil'zha said. :)

Brad Wright Lurking?
Welcome :D lol

meredithchandler73
January 1st, 2007, 07:50 AM
Wow. I really liked this episode! I kept dreading the "inevitable" double-cross and I was so happy to be wrong. An episode with the Genii with no double-crosses!?!?! FINALLY! (This is probably what a lot of people like about the Genii, but the duplicity was getting *really* old for me.) Well, Kolya had men loyal to him working under Ladon. I guess you can't have a Genii episode without *some* sort of betrayal in it. But I was glad to see it wasn't Atlantis getting duped...FOR ONCE. Even Kolya is shocked when he finds out that Ladon told the truth about his situation - how he betrayed Kolya to take power for himself. Telling the truth - what a concept.

Oh, and McKay's comment about Sheppard looking younger than he did before was priceless. I love that the transcript of the episode here on Gateworld describes it this way:

(As the Wraith scrambles to its feet, John also stands up. He's as young and as pretty as he ever was.)

Hee hee. Pretty. :)

I liked the interaction between Sheppard and the Wraith. My only complaint - I kinda wish Sheppard had named him. Hasn't Sheppard named all the Wraith that have had names so far? Steve, Bob, and Michael. (Actually, I think Sheppard called him Mikey when he was turning human.)

obsessed1
January 1st, 2007, 10:34 AM
I disagree. I see what you're saying, and it was necessary to have some way to restore him to have this ep work, but I think this was the best way. They couldn't not have the Wraith feeding on Shep work, because it is already in canon that they can feed on Anceints, so his ATA gene is no protection (I think that is what you were referring to?). If Carson had of come up with some medical solution it would be both lame and reduce the threat of the Wraith in future eps. This was the best solution out of any I can think of, and with the development of the emotional bond between Shep and the Wraith I found it quite an endearing ending.



I completely, wholeheartedly, fervently agree with this statement! :D :D
The whole life giving back thing was almost a suprise because I thought 'neh they wont do that' and then they went and did it. It was really the only way to make him Shep again and I would have been peeved if it was all a hallucination......this way, we have real ramifications and an effect on Sheppard as a character. It will be interesting to see whats done with that in the future when he meets a wraith again :D

Linzi
January 1st, 2007, 11:35 AM
The whole life giving back thing was almost a suprise because I thought 'neh they wont do that' and then they went and did it. It was really the only way to make him Shep again and I would have been peeved if it was all a hallucination......this way, we have real ramifications and an effect on Sheppard as a character. It will be interesting to see whats done with that in the future when he meets a wraith again :D
Now I pretty much knew the wraith was going to restore Shep's good looks, but I don't have a problem with that. Why? Well, I wanted Shep to be back to his handsome self, for one, but also, we learned something very interesting about the wraith. We know they can restore life and health if they so choose, and that they can be trustworthy when making a promise. That elevates them from the previous dark, almost comic book villains they were, IMO. Now they have moral rules they can live by if they choose to, and that, for me, made the wraith more three dimensional.

Rootortoise
January 1st, 2007, 12:18 PM
Now I pretty much knew the wraith was going to restore Shep's good looks, but I don't have a problem with that. Why? Well, I wanted Shep to be back to his handsome self, for one, but also, we learned something very interesting about the wraith. We know they can restore life and health if they so choose, and that they can be trustworthy when making a promise. That elevates them from the previous dark, almost comic book villains they were, IMO. Now they have moral rules they can live by if they choose to, and that, for me, made the wraith more three dimensional.
totally agree LINZI!!! it certainly made me see the wraith in a different light!!
the relationship between shep and the wraith was incredible.

its a shame that tptb have decided to continue the sg1-rejects the asurans/replicators/whatevers in favour of developing the wraith more, especially as they were just getting really interesting after this episode!! i really wanna see this wraith in season 4 for another reunion between him and shep!!

Thankyou Ken c for this amazing ep!! it still remains my favourite of season 3 so far!!

Elinor
January 3rd, 2007, 12:18 AM
wraith was incredible.

its a shame that tptb have decided to continue the sg1-rejects the asurans/replicators/whatevers in favour of developing the wraith more, especially as they were just getting really interesting after this episode!!

Darn...hope they change their minds about that!

The Wraith did get more intriguing with this episode and I would love to see the relationship between them and their worshippers/brothers explored further. Most definitely!!

:)

caty
January 3rd, 2007, 12:44 PM
Darn...hope they change their minds about that!

The Wraith did get more intriguing with this episode and I would love to see the relationship between them and their worshippers/brothers explored further. Most definitely!!

:)

Yeah and I definetely want to see Shep and the Wraith he didn't name meet again... Maybe even during a culling.. That would be so cool and hopefully calling for some pretty heavy emotional stuff...

obsessed1
January 3rd, 2007, 12:49 PM
Darn...hope they change their minds about that!

The Wraith did get more intriguing with this episode and I would love to see the relationship between them and their worshippers/brothers explored further. Most definitely!!

:)
Yeah I agree. It would be interesting to see more of these moral dilemmas!! We havent seen the wraith all that much in season three and I kind of miss them..........



That sounds so wrong LOL!!! :D

obsessed1
January 3rd, 2007, 12:50 PM
Now I pretty much knew the wraith was going to restore Shep's good looks, but I don't have a problem with that. Why? Well, I wanted Shep to be back to his handsome self, for one, but also, we learned something very interesting about the wraith. We know they can restore life and health if they so choose, and that they can be trustworthy when making a promise. That elevates them from the previous dark, almost comic book villains they were, IMO. Now they have moral rules they can live by if they choose to, and that, for me, made the wraith more three dimensional.
Thats true. They do now have a bit more to them than before. I only wish we could see more and especially see a reappearance of that wraith at some point to see how Shep deals with it!

I want the wraith back full time and the replicators etc gone. The wraith were our villains after all.......time to make Atlantis unique again...(In any sense that it can be unique being the child of SG1...ah you know what I mean....i hope:D)


Sorry....I rambled a bit!

Luz
January 3rd, 2007, 01:03 PM
I want the wraith back full time and the replicators etc gone. The wraith were our villains after all.......time to make Atlantis unique again...(In any sense that it can be unique being the child of SG1...ah you know what I mean....i hope:D)


Sorry....I rambled a bit!

I hope so too, that we never see the replicators Asurans again, if the writers put a bit more effort into writing the wraith we as fans can get to see more aspects aside from their feeding habits, as was proven by this episode.
i find the wraith far more interesting than the Asurans, and at least the wraith are SGA's villain and not some recycled washed up over used bad guys from SG1.

obsessed1
January 3rd, 2007, 01:41 PM
I hope so too, that we never see the replicators Asurans again, if the writers put a bit more effort into writing the wraith we as fans can get to see more aspects aside from their feeding habits, as was proven by this episode.
i find the wraith far more interesting than the Asurans, and at least the wraith are SGA's villain and not some recycled washed up over used bad guys from SG1.
Are you just following me around this forum today? LOL!!

Yeah, the wraith have much more unexplored potential and its a shame that episodes have focused on already done villains and half baked plots. When SGA is good, it's good. I think the writers will HOPEFULLY get their focus back when SG1 has finally ended. (Dont mean to offend SG1 fans)

Luz
January 3rd, 2007, 01:57 PM
Are you just following me around this forum today? LOL!!
Yes, *waves* I hadn't realized I had answered to your posts both times, you were saying things that have been going through my mind. You out of my brain!. :P

obsessed1
January 6th, 2007, 02:47 PM
Yes, *waves* I hadn't realized I had answered to your posts both times, you were saying things that have been going through my mind. You out of my brain!. :P
Nope, Ive taken up residence and Im not leaving :D

The Sweet Guy
January 6th, 2007, 07:47 PM
Isn't Common Ground the last episode we've seen them in? Phantoms doesn't count, that wasn't real.

Linzi
January 7th, 2007, 03:07 AM
Isn't Common Ground the last episode we've seen them in? Phantoms doesn't count, that wasn't real.
Yes, I believe so.

obsessed1
January 7th, 2007, 09:26 AM
Come back Wraith!! we miss you :D

Sheppard's Delight
January 7th, 2007, 09:27 AM
Come back Wraith!! we miss you :D

indeed we do!

Linzi
January 7th, 2007, 09:36 AM
Come back Wraith!! we miss you :D
Agreed! I like the wraith! :)

Twinchy
January 8th, 2007, 02:16 AM
Come back Wraith!! we miss you :D

Me too, me too!!! Come back!

Laura the Asgard
January 15th, 2007, 01:55 PM
Are you just following me around this forum today? LOL!!

Yeah, the wraith have much more unexplored potential and its a shame that episodes have focused on already done villains and half baked plots. When SGA is good, it's good. I think the writers will HOPEFULLY get their focus back when SG1 has finally ended. (Dont mean to offend SG1 fans)

I agree 100% with you guys. I just watched Common Ground again today and like it more each time. SGA has it's own villians - Wraith, Genii - They are unigue villians and not something copied over from other shows.

The writer really put some effort into this episode and it had something for everyone. Shep fans got lots of Shep. Koyla fans got to see him again, Wraith fans got a new wraith - one that will hopefully come back, Wier fans got to see her at her best, Ronan fans...Well, I could go on and on. I want to see more episodes like this. Until then, I have Tivo I guess.

Lauriel
January 15th, 2007, 03:22 PM
Me too, me too!!! Come back!

Ken C said he was proprosing a second ep featuring this Wraith, but if he's not coming back in S4, I don't know what our chances are?

SGAFan
January 15th, 2007, 03:28 PM
oh they have ot bring this Wraith back. Come on, the whole "what if we meet again?" "All bets are off." thing BEGS for another episode. LOL

If KC isn't going to be around (Dont get me started on this...:weiranime22: :ronananime01: ) then I hope someone like Carl Binder writes it (if it happens, which it should! LOL)

Lauriel
January 15th, 2007, 04:36 PM
oh they have ot bring this Wraith back. Come on, the whole "what if we meet again?" "All bets are off." thing BEGS for another episode. LOL

If KC isn't going to be around (Dont get me started on this...:weiranime22: :ronananime01: ) then I hope someone like Carl Binder writes it (if it happens, which it should! LOL)

I'm hoping for something like that too, SGAFan! And agreed with the Ken C temper tantrum. :weiranime22: :ronananime01:

Leanna20
February 7th, 2007, 05:29 AM
HI there ! i've finally decided to join the fun :sam: i can't belive i've waited so long!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Great episode ! one of the best in my opinion. Both John and the Wraith are great, and the genii make even more scarier villains. They should really stop making Ronon look like a j..k! come on , he has to evolve. Other than that it was a great episode!

Sheppard's Delight
February 7th, 2007, 06:14 AM
HI there ! i've finally decided to join the fun :sam: i can't belive i've waited so long!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Great episode ! one of the best in my opinion. Both John and the Wraith are great, and the genii make even more scarier villains. They should really stop making Ronon look like a j..k! come on , he has to evolve. Other than that it was a great episode!

Oh congratulations on your first post!!!

Yes CG is an awesome episode- the best of season 3 IMO!!!!!!

Linzi
February 7th, 2007, 08:37 AM
Oh congratulations on your first post!!!

Yes CG is an awesome episode- the best of season 3 IMO!!!!!!
I agree. Definitely the best episode of season 3!!! :)

Rootortoise
February 7th, 2007, 08:39 AM
I agree. Definitely the best episode of season 3!!! :)
i agree too!!!:)

Sheppard's Delight
February 7th, 2007, 09:53 AM
I agree. Definitely the best episode of season 3!!! :)


i agree too!!!:)

But I get the feeling we almost knew that before we had even seen it !;)

Lauriel
February 7th, 2007, 12:47 PM
But I get the feeling we almost knew that before we had even seen it !;)

Surely your not suggesting that fans of a certain persuasion *cough Shepwhump cough* had worked themselves up to a fever pitch before the episode aired? Come on, how likely is that? ;)

Rootortoise
February 7th, 2007, 12:49 PM
Surely your not suggesting that fans of a certain persuasion *cough Shepwhump cough* had worked themselves up to a fever pitch before the episode aired? Come on, how likely is that? ;)
not very likely at all...*whistles innocently* ;)

Linzi
February 8th, 2007, 01:01 AM
But I get the feeling we almost knew that before we had even seen it !;)
Yes, you're right. We had pretty much guessed the basic plot, but it had enough twists to keep us interested, didn't it? It is a classic, in my opinion, and obviously a fan favourite, from what I can gather. Yes, the whump was fantastic, but the characterisations and plot were fantastic too. I really loved the wraith in CG, he was a breath of fresh air, and I liked him. Who'd have thought the wraith would've understood humour? It was an all round winner, I think.

Sheppard's Delight
February 8th, 2007, 01:02 AM
Yes, you're right. We had pretty much guessed the basic plot, but it had enough twists to keep us interested, didn't it? It is a classic, in my opinion, and obviously a fan favourite, from what I can gather. Yes, the whump was fantastic, but the characterisations and plot were fantastic too. I really loved the wraith in CG, he was a breath of fresh air, and I liked him. Who'd have thought the wraith would've understood humour? It was an all round winner, I think.

Oh yes it was what we had hoped for and a lot more! The highlight of S3 by a long long way!

Linzi
February 8th, 2007, 01:11 AM
Oh yes it was what we had hoped for and a lot more! The highlight of S3 by a long long way!
I agree!!! :)

Elinor
February 8th, 2007, 12:28 PM
Oh yes it was what we had hoped for and a lot more! The highlight of S3 by a long long way!

Indubitably!!

:)

Elite Anubis Guard
February 24th, 2007, 08:37 AM
I just rewatched this and I have to say, it really is one of the best episodes of the series so far. Even though I saw the "Gift of Life" coming early on into the episode, it didn't make me enjoy it any less. I really love episodes were we team up with baddies and it was full of awesome whumpage.

Sheppard's Delight
February 24th, 2007, 09:24 AM
I just rewatched this and I have to say, it really is one of the best episodes of the series so far. Even though I saw the "Gift of Life" coming early on into the episode, it didn't make me enjoy it any less. I really love episodes were we team up with baddies and it was full of awesome whumpage.

The whumpage was awesome indeed!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Linzi
February 24th, 2007, 11:33 AM
I just rewatched this and I have to say, it really is one of the best episodes of the series so far. Even though I saw the "Gift of Life" coming early on into the episode, it didn't make me enjoy it any less. I really love episodes were we team up with baddies and it was full of awesome whumpage.
I saw the 'gift of life' before the episode even aired :lol:, but, I agree it didn't matter and the whumpage was totally awesome! A great episode. In fact, a classic, IMO.

Lauriel
February 24th, 2007, 05:13 PM
I saw the 'gift of life' before the episode even aired :lol:, but, I agree it didn't matter and the whumpage was totally awesome! A great episode. In fact, a classic, IMO.

I think with all the discussion we had before the ep in the whump thread we'd pretty much pegged the plot before we saw it. It didn't make it any less enjoyable though! I think what really blew most of us away, was that they actually did what we'd thought they would! Torture by Wraith - not the fluffy fic that SGA had been presenting throughout s2. It's still my favourite ep - dark and ansgty, great storyline, brilliant acting. I won't stop singing it's praises anytime soon. :)

ChelApophis
March 3rd, 2007, 12:34 PM
I've re-watched CG and it's just great. Of course , the wraith restauring Shepp was predictible , but it didn't take any of the episode's charm. The torture scenes are just so real , that I actually felt bad for Sheppard , and after his talk with the wraith I felt sad for both of them.
This wraith just added some depth to his species: he was wise , had honour and dispite all expectation , a he had a sense of humour!!!!!! Cristopher just did a great job with his wraith.
Koylia keeps beeing the worst of the bad guys : blackmail , torture.....Makes you wonder witch is worst : the genii or the wraith?
I also liked Elisabeth , she has shown that she is the leader in Atlantis and can face any difficult situation.
Rodney shotting the rabbit-mouse was just hilarious.
I'm really hoppeing the Shepp and Gabriel ( fan given name for the wraith) will meet again in the future , because the 2 actors really had a great thing going with their characters , and it would be interesting to see if all bets are really off

Rootortoise
March 6th, 2007, 10:56 AM
I've re-watched CG and it's just great. Of course , the wraith restauring Shepp was predictible , but it didn't take any of the episode's charm. The torture scenes are just so real , that I actually felt bad for Sheppard , and after his talk with the wraith I felt sad for both of them.
This wraith just added some depth to his species: he was wise , had honour and dispite all expectation , a he had a sense of humour!!!!!! Cristopher just did a great job with his wraith.
Koylia keeps beeing the worst of the bad guys : blackmail , torture.....Makes you wonder witch is worst : the genii or the wraith?
I also liked Elisabeth , she has shown that she is the leader in Atlantis and can face any difficult situation.
Rodney shotting the rabbit-mouse was just hilarious.
I'm really hoppeing the Shepp and Gabriel ( fan given name for the wraith) will meet again in the future , because the 2 actors really had a great thing going with their characters , and it would be interesting to see if all bets are really off
yep i still love this episode too!!:D poor shep!!

and JM has told us that we will be seeing this wraith again in season 4, so who knows what will happen!!!!!:)

rosey_angel
April 18th, 2007, 03:49 PM
I was kinda dreading this ep; another genii one *sigh* but it was much better than i thought it was gonna be. kolya still annoys me; not coz he's all bad or whatever, he just pi$$es me off whining all the time

Laydon was really cool in this ep. i like the thin alliance we have with him and the genii, and i hope it comes into play moreso in later eps.

'Gabriel' is sweet. i knew from spoilers what was gonna happen with him, but it was nice to see. both are great actors!

lol at rodney shooting the mouse. and his pep talk before leaving atlantis made it even better!

imo, this ep is the second best of the series. hope to see Gabriel again soon!

Carter1994
May 16th, 2007, 11:16 AM
Yay! My first ever post! *blows trumpet* :) Of course, this is and old thread... so the odds of anyone ever seeing it are low. :( *sigh*

Anyway, the episode.
Wow, wow, wow, wow, WOW! This is the best ep ever! (Probably why I'm starting here)

John Sheppard- Oh, man. He has got to be the best ever. He was so cool when he took out hte genii gaurds! Guess it proves skill is worth more than strength. I was pleased he kept his deal with the wraith, too.

Elizabeth Weir- Strong, determained leader who didn't give in to evil Kolya. Yay for Weir!

Teyla Emmagen- Just plain there. Again.

Ronon Dex- His usual gung-hoe self. Loved his interaction with Ladon.

Rodney McKay- Ha! I loved him! It was hilarious when he shot the mouse! Also enjoyed his little speech to the Strike Team.

Okay. I'm done rambling. I'd like to finish with,

KUDOS TO KEN!!!!!!! (not shouting) :sam:

P-90_177
May 16th, 2007, 11:19 AM
well i just saw it. gotta say though: CALM DOWN!!! just breathe.

Carter1994
May 16th, 2007, 05:37 PM
Cool. Someone saw it!
In response to what you said, what do you mean, "Calm down"? I was perfectly rational when I wrote that.

monkey_man132
May 19th, 2007, 02:24 PM
Rodney McKay- Ha! I loved him! It was hilarious when he shot the mouse! Also enjoyed his little speech to the Strike Team. Yes! McKay was hilarious. I loved his speech to the team. Great episode altogether.

Arga
June 6th, 2007, 12:33 PM
That was an important episode! :zelenka25:

The one think I didn't see coming was that Kolya escaped..

Sheppard doesn't wear a red shirt, so I'm sure everybody predicted the only way he would be young again would be that the Wraith could reverse the life flow direction.
But we didn't know exactly when and how it would happen. (at the end certainly, but how?).
I was pretty sure the wraith was going to kill Kolya while Shepp was letting him do it in front of his eyes.

I loved McKay protesting that the wraith made Sheppard younger than he used to be! :lol:

Athosian Death facilitator
June 16th, 2007, 05:47 PM
I think there is only one word to describe this episode. Awesome!

To find out the wraith could give life...I had a hunch, but man, when he actually did it...WOW!

I have to admit, I stood up and started clapping so hard I bruised my hands when the credits rolled.

10 out of 10 for sure! Well, maybe 9.5...you never know, something could be better. But right now, I'm thinking that was one of the best episodes ever.

*slides quietly out and goes back to lurking*

Yes i agree i was AWESOME but why did they search lots of planets and not the one from which the wormhole was established and video feed was coming from?
Was it because they could not identify the incoming address?

garhkal
June 16th, 2007, 07:02 PM
I have never seen them id an incoming address before... heck even in sg1, they did not have that.

BUT i am surprised there is no tech for that in atlantis, since that city was built by the same people who put up the gate network..

Lauriel
June 17th, 2007, 06:14 AM
I have never seen them id an incoming address before... heck even in sg1, they did not have that.

BUT i am surprised there is no tech for that in atlantis, since that city was built by the same people who put up the gate network..

It may well be there, but that doesn't mean we've identified it or know how to use the technology.

Trek_Girl42
September 22nd, 2007, 05:17 PM
Highly predicatble- I had the entire story figured out as soon as a voice came from the shadows in the other cell, and when the wraith started feeding for the first time it was obvious that there would be some kind of.....up-chuck so to speak. :P The only thing I didn't forsee was Kolya's escape.

However, it was still excellent- I loved seeing Shep work with the Wraith, and I like that the Wraith can give life back as well. And I'm glad that they let that wraith go- he was an interesting character, and I hope we see him again. :)

MmmmMcKAy
September 22nd, 2007, 06:41 PM
Reading through some of the posts, it sounds like this a fav of many. I can't say the same. I liked it alright but it didn't grip me. Maybe it's because I'm ho hum about Shepard in general.

I too think it's very cool that the Wraith can give back life, not just take it away. :) Interesting development. We'll probably see that Wraith again somewhere down the line.

I also always enjoy Kolya.....the evil *******.;)

Trek_Girl42
September 22nd, 2007, 06:47 PM
Reading through some of the posts, it sounds like this a fav of many. I can't say the same. I liked it alright but it didn't grip me. Maybe it's because I'm ho hum about Shepard in general.

I too think it's very cool that the Wraith can give back life, not just take it away. :) Interesting development. We'll probably see that Wraith again somewhere down the line.

I also always enjoy Kolya.....the evil *******.;)
Yeah, this one won't go down as one of my absolute favourites either, but it was great to see Kolya back, and time didn't crawl while watching it, so I thoroughly enjoyed it, and will definitely watch it again some time soon. And there was some excellent story development here. I really want to see that Wraith again! :D

PG15
September 22nd, 2007, 07:37 PM
I really want to see that Wraith again! :D

Ok.


;)

Trek_Girl42
September 22nd, 2007, 07:51 PM
Ok.


;)
I take it from that you know something I don't :P

PG15
September 22nd, 2007, 08:37 PM
Yep. :p

Trek_Girl42
September 22nd, 2007, 09:01 PM
Yep. :p
Oh goody! :D

MmmmMcKAy
September 23rd, 2007, 04:55 PM
So our favorite wraith makes an appearance in Season 4?????? Interesting.:)

garhkal
September 24th, 2007, 03:35 PM
Woohoo!!

Marie C.
December 12th, 2007, 10:22 AM
I just LOVE this ep!!!! i think it gives everyone a unique insite to the Wraith...especially their private orders and secrets...hmmm it gives an author plenty of room to think. :D :D :D

captain jake
December 12th, 2007, 11:15 AM
I just LOVE this ep!!!! i think it gives everyone a unique insite to the Wraith...especially their private orders and secrets...hmmm it gives an author plenty of room to think. :D :D :D

Yes it's true this episode led into a completely different type of wraith. I see the wraith kinda becoming like Baal in season 9 and 10 of SG-1. Eventually they will be so wiped out that they wont even be a serious threat to us. Which, will mean that we may be able to learn from each other and move forward from this horrible background.

Marie C.
December 12th, 2007, 04:22 PM
Yes it's true this episode led into a completely different type of wraith. I see the wraith kinda becoming like Baal in season 9 and 10 of SG-1. Eventually they will be so wiped out that they wont even be a serious threat to us. Which, will mean that we may be able to learn from each other and move forward from this horrible background.

huh.....never thought of it that way! :D :D :D that episode also helps me in my wraith/human stories....though at first i thought that i would never see the wraith in a good light at all! :D :D :D now i see that they too are a unique race of their own and we shouldn't call them a mistake. at least, that's what i think.

Ozzy O'NeiLL
December 16th, 2007, 05:13 AM
This ep made me really like the Wraith. I knew SOMETHING had to happen to Shep, because he had already lost many years of his life.

"All bets are off".

Great ep. I'm interested to see how they'll be using the "gift of life" thing again in any future eps. And I kind of hope they'll eventually run into the particular wraith again...

Also, Kolya is a *******. Just had to throw that out there.

Marie C.
December 17th, 2007, 09:47 AM
This ep made me really like the Wraith. I knew SOMETHING had to happen to Shep, because he had already lost many years of his life.

"All bets are off".

Great ep. I'm interested to see how they'll be using the "gift of life" thing again in any future eps. And I kind of hope they'll eventually run into the particular wraith again...

Also, Kolya is a *******. Just had to throw that out there.

*nods emphatically* i've been hoping that they use that particular wraith again...who knows what he'd do if he met sheppard in the future...maybe he won't suck the life out of him even though "all bets are off." what do you think?

GATEGOD
December 18th, 2007, 01:55 PM
"One he liked me better than you"

hahaha!!

and

"They're concentrating their seacrh around the gate. Must have thought we knew where we were going."



hahahahahaha

Best lines in the ep!!

First
December 19th, 2007, 04:37 PM
"They're concentrating their seacrh around the gate. Must have thought we knew where we were going."


LOL, and quite humbling to see them get lost, and ironically that helps them escape!

Great ep too BTW! It's different to see someone get life-sucked (the Genii guards) and for me to cheer about it being a good thing!
Seeing the wraith grow stronger was cool, as the stronger he gets, it helps Shep escape.

desh
December 25th, 2007, 11:47 PM
I loved the episode, especially the final scene, where the rescue team finds Shepherd alive and well. Everyone's facial expressions are critical and revealing: McKay and Beckett misunderstand, Teyla is shocked, and Ronon is trying not to believe what he's seeing.

This episode shows that the Wraith are not "bad guys". They cull humans because humans are their food source; they have to eat to survive as all consumers in nature. However, this in no way suggests that the Wraith are not capable of their own form of "humanity" (for lack of a more general term), as the Atlantians, especially Ronon and Teyla, like to believe.

I like the fact that the writers raise such subtle questions about humanity and rights, especially with situations like this and with Michael and the retrovirus.

garhkal
December 26th, 2007, 02:48 PM
That is one of the reasons i am starting to prefer atlantis to SG1

chevron3
January 4th, 2008, 10:00 AM
loved that episode!