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GateWorld
April 26th, 2004, 02:58 PM
<DIV ALIGN="center"><TABLE WIDTH="450" BORDER="0" CELLSPACING="0" CELLPADDING="7"><TR><TD><DIV ALIGN="left"><FONT FACE="Verdana, Arial, san-serif" SIZE="2" COLOR="#000000"><A HREF="http://www.gateworld.net/sg1/s10/1007.shtml"><IMG SRC="http://www.gateworld.net/sg1/graphics/1007.jpg" WIDTH="160" HEIGHT="120" ALIGN="right" HSPACE="10" VSPACE="2" BORDER="0" STYLE="border: 1px black solid" ALT="Visit the Episode Guide"></A><FONT SIZE="1" COLOR="#888888">SG-1 SEASON TEN</FONT>
<FONT SIZE="4"><A HREF="http://www.gateworld.net/sg1/s10/1007.shtml" STYLE="text-decoration: none">COUNTERSTRIKE</A></FONT>
<FONT SIZE="1">EPISODE NUMBER - 1007</FONT>
<IMG SRC="/images/clear.gif" WIDTH="1" HEIGHT="10" ALT="">
The Jaffa take the fight to the Ori, using a genocidal weapon on their new worshippers and landing SG-1 in the middle of a war they can't control.

<FONT SIZE="1" COLOR="#888888"><B><A HREF="http://www.gateworld.net/sg1/s10/1007.shtml">VISIT THE EPISODE GUIDE ></A></B>
SPOILERS! PHOTOS! AND MORE!</FONT></FONT></DIV></TD></TR></TABLE></DIV>

Descent
August 25th, 2006, 07:11 PM
Definately one of the best episodes this season. This whole arc has just gone dark with Adria back (whos really twisted).

A 9/10 from me!

NowIWillDestroyAbydos
August 25th, 2006, 07:14 PM
Good ep, it's sad Langara is under Ori control, hey that would be a good story for the Series Finale, SG-1 rescuses Jonas from the Ori. I give it a ***1/2. Next week's doesn't look so good. This season is SO better than Season 9.

siXbrownSnakes2
August 25th, 2006, 07:14 PM
I'm getting SICK of Malozzi's scripts being the only ones that have convenient beaming (at least Flesh and Blood made SOME sense as the ship was on the planet). Any other writer could have thought of something CREATIVE to do there.

The rest of the episode was good but every episode that involves the stupid asgard beam to save anyone at the last second gets -points from me. Why do the writers have to be so stupid? They know its convenient and even though they attempt to joke at their incompetance to write a good escape in "200", (and I bet malozzi wrote that segment of the episode) it still gets old and annoying. FAST.

7/10. I'll watch the episode again later to find all the plot holes because I feel like ripping Malozzi's script into shreds. But the convenience beaming is really getting sickening.

It's happening too much on Atlantis AND SG-1. I swear, that "tech" was the worst thing to happen to this show. Lets beam the entire building out off the Earth! And in Flesh and Blood, the same stupid crap happened.

/sigh


EDIT: I'll be positive about some things though. Vala grew on me this week. She has great potential. She and Daniel being able to interact on that kind of level is really nice. When I heard Daniel would tell her about Sha're, I figured it would be something sexually initiated, but this actually fit with the episode.

Fun to see an Ori ship as well. I just wish the good story wasn't ruined by the beaming.

I'm kind of sad to see the "Jaffa Nation" go, as storylines involving them tended to be good. But another "we didn't say theyre dead so they aren't nessecarily gone" stunt was pulled.

nccjones
August 25th, 2006, 07:17 PM
Langara?! Isn't Jonas on Langara? I hate how they just forgot him :(

Supacacto
August 25th, 2006, 07:19 PM
I liked the basic story, but there were a few specific things that really irked me.

- Why did Carter bother to take the staff? Did she actually think through that it'd bee beetter to hit the jaffa with the staff so she didn't have to shoot him? Why didn't she just hit him with the gun? The fact that they spent time to make a point of it made me hope they'd do something with it. Like, if they had any brains, maybe bring it home to examine it.

- A dell laptop apparently able to interface with an Ori ship (technology they've never encountered before).

- Adria's horrid looking contacs. Seriously, they were even lopsided, it was so gross.

- Bad cutting and bad lines. Especially the last one.

But like i said, plot-wise, it was pretty good.

Pharaoh Atem
August 25th, 2006, 07:24 PM
Langara?! Isn't Jonas on Langara? I hate how they just forgot him :(
yes i just checked poor jonas

Bragi
August 25th, 2006, 07:24 PM
When Sam said Hebridan and Langara were converted my heart sank about six inches into my belly. Of course, my heart was already sunken because of the cancellation. That was just the icing on the cake.

I'm assuming that Jonas is probably dead. I mean, there's just no way he'd submit and we know what happens to those who don't submit.

I hope Warrick's okay. Although I doubt he's still alive.

Pharaoh Atem
August 25th, 2006, 07:25 PM
When Sam said Hebridan and Langara were converted my heart sank about six inches into my belly. Of course, my heart was already sunken because of the cancellation. That was just the icing on the cake.

I'm assuming that Jonas is probably dead. I mean, there's just no way he'd submit and we know what happens to those who don't submit.

I hope Warrick's okay. Although I doubt he's still alive.
there killed jonas with out a single shot (TPTB)

the dancer of spaz
August 25th, 2006, 07:28 PM
- Why did Carter bother to take the staff? Did she actually think through that it'd bee beetter to hit the jaffa with the staff so she didn't have to shoot him? Why didn't she just hit him with the gun? The fact that they spent time to make a point of it made me hope they'd do something with it. Like, if they had any brains, maybe bring it home to examine it.

In the sides that were released by showfax.com many, many months ago - prior to filming - the script actually said that Sam shot the Jaffa. Then Cameron said, "I didn't know you knew how to use one of those things," and Sam responded with, "Well, piece of cake." :rolleyes: Don't know why they changed it.

Uber
August 25th, 2006, 07:28 PM
Langara?! Isn't Jonas on Langara? I hate how they just forgot him :(Yup. Jonas is on Langara and Warrick is on Hebridan. Are they both dead or are they converted? Or are they in hiding?

You know, it would have been NICE if one of them mentioned their names.

MarshAngel
August 25th, 2006, 07:28 PM
The episode was good but I agree the convenience beaming is very annoying. It just points out how unlikely it is that SG-1 could survive any of these situations. Once is a great, twice is a blessing, 6 fricking times is eye rollingly annoying and overdone.

I know there's a lot going on but yeah, a mention of Jonas would have been nice.

Pharaoh Atem
August 25th, 2006, 07:30 PM
During counterstrike we found out that
counterstrike spoilers season 10
Jonas's home world has gone ori so do you think this is TPTB ways of getting rid of him. do you think Jonas is still alive

mi4si
August 25th, 2006, 07:30 PM
damn good episode....no to cancellation

Pharaoh Atem
August 25th, 2006, 07:32 PM
Yup. Jonas is on Langara and Warrick is on Hebridan. Are they both dead or are they converted? Or are they in hiding?

You know, it would have been NICE if one of them mentioned their names.
it's all up in the air sadly could be one of those I'm hiding please let me thought the gate before I'm discovered i have Intel type stories

i also made a thread to discuss this http://forum.gateworld.net/showthread.php?t=34148

the dancer of spaz
August 25th, 2006, 07:35 PM
Yup. Jonas is on Langara and Warrick is on Hebridan. Are they both dead or are they converted? Or are they in hiding?

You know, it would have been NICE if one of them mentioned their names.

I don't care so much about Warrick, but I am annoyed about no mentioning of Jonas. It's like they mentioned Langara as a feeble bone to be thrown at those who even care about the guy - or who remember that he lives on Langara. :rolleyes: I guess this is their twisted way of ending that mess for good, considering we all know that Jonas will never be on SG-1 again.

Tsk, tsk. They definitely should've handled that better.

Pharaoh Atem
August 25th, 2006, 07:36 PM
ok my turn overall solid episode loved the visuals and showing just how strong adria is :S.

also loved the foreshadowing towards Daniel ;) we have plains for you

NotAscended
August 25th, 2006, 07:40 PM
- A dell laptop apparently able to interface with an Ori ship (technology they've never encountered before).

Didn't you download the special Ori driver pack from Microsoft? I got it for my laptop, but haven't been able to find an Ori ship to plug and play yet.

ShimmeringStar
August 25th, 2006, 07:41 PM
IMOHO Joe and Paul's writing with Andy's direction came a lot closer to a pre-S9 feel than we had all last season. There was conflict finally; some tension and doubt about how things might turn out for the characters. Not to say there wasn't times during the ep when it was like, okay.... this particular scene has gone on a couple beats too long.... but overall the ep was a good balance of all the characters. Serious tone; A lot was at stake... But heck.... was this part of the overall arc to bring the series to a close - having the Ori kill off the Taur'i's allies on every planet SG-1's ever visited?:S

Morena Baccarin put a suitably sinister touch on Adria, the right amount of, 'hey, I'm really only a few months old and still an innocent,' mixed with 'but I'm more evil than you can imagine...' :) Though her line about "We've got plans for you..." to Daniel... mmmm..... it seems like a wee bit too much foreshadowing when that certain something happens to him in a future ep; less of a surprise to casual non-fandom users when it does happen...

Oh well. :S The eps are getting better, only for the series to get axed... *shakes head morosely at Skiffy*

knowsfords
August 25th, 2006, 07:43 PM
I think if Jonas is still alive then he wont be for much longer, he seems the rebelious type.

Pharaoh Atem
August 25th, 2006, 07:44 PM
I think if Jonas is still alive then he wont be for much longer, he seems the rebelious type.
spoiler tags are your friend

ShimmeringStar
August 25th, 2006, 07:44 PM
I don't care so much about Warrick, but I am annoyed about no mentioning of Jonas. It's like they mentioned Langara as a feeble bone to be thrown at those who even care about the guy - or who remember that he lives on Langara. :rolleyes: I guess this is their twisted way of ending that mess for good, considering we all know that Jonas will never be on SG-1 again.

Tsk, tsk. They definitely should've handled that better.Spaz!:eek::D;) :) But that means no more space-racing for Sam! :P:D

But I agree... I'm more than a casual viewer and it took a bit of thinking even for me to try to remember what the connection to those planet names were. Saying Jonas' homeworld or Warrick's world would have made an immediate connection.:)

Mitchell82
August 25th, 2006, 07:49 PM
spoiler tags are your friend
I agree Jonas is as good as dead.

Bragi
August 25th, 2006, 07:53 PM
I've said as much in the official episode discussion thread.

Same with Warrick. :(

The fact is, objectionable as it was to use the Dakaran device, there isn't a whole hell of a lot we can do at the moment. I guess the Jaffa forgot to read the spoilers.

Bragi
August 25th, 2006, 08:00 PM
On the positive side. . . . . . Origin does look a lot more appealing these days.

I've said it before, I'll say it again: Hallowed is that beauty.

Nolamom
August 25th, 2006, 08:00 PM
Entirely too much last-second beaming, but good character interaction. I'm liking Vala more and more as they tone her character down - particularly the line about warriors and mothers - hehehe. I guess I should have gotten a Dell laptop instead of my Compaq since they interface with everything in the universe. I'm just wondering what cables and what programs Sam has to use. And are they commercially available?

Oh, and Adria has a Rodney-type personal shield...interesting.

coolove
August 25th, 2006, 08:06 PM
I don't know why I didn't catch the name of Jonas's planet in the episode. I immediately caught Warrick's planet. Now, I just feel sad.

Mitchell82
August 25th, 2006, 08:06 PM
Excellent episode! Origin is definatly more apealing theese days! I am loving Stargate even more! DAMN SCIFI!

Major Gambit
August 25th, 2006, 08:11 PM
OMG! THAT WAS AMAZING!


Defidendtly one of my favorites this season. Morenca did great.


Does anyone else have NO respect for the free jaffa nation anymore? well, what little there are left that is.


Hmmm.....the ori have plans for daniel? i wonder what that could be ;)

The.Prior.of.The.Ori
August 25th, 2006, 08:15 PM
it would certainly seem like he is dead dosn't it.:cool:

Mitchell82
August 25th, 2006, 08:17 PM
Mabey he's been Priorized? Or they just couldn't get him back and did it as best they could.

Mitchell82
August 25th, 2006, 08:21 PM
Excellent episode. I love that SG-1 is returning more and more towards their dramatic roots. The levity of past missions is fast disappearing, and I'm loving it.

I really enjoyed Landry in this episode. He was solid in his dealings with the the Jaffa leader (don't remember his name). I liked how he called him on his hypocrisy regarding using the weapon against humans as opposed to fellow jaffa.

I think the new SG-1 is really starting to mesh (which is, of course, bittersweet). I think that Mitchell is really starting to gel nicely with the others, and I think he has a good relationship with Teal'c and Sam. I don't think he can relate as well to Daniel, but I actually like that about his character. It doesn't mean he values Daniel any less, just that he can relate to the warrior in Teal'c and the Colonel/Air force side of Carter.

Sam was her usual brilliant self, both getting the shields down and rescuing the Mitchell and Teal'c.

Vala and Daniel are making a nice team. Sorry guys, but I like these two together. I, too, like Vala toned down a little, but I'm glad that her snarkiness remains.

Loving Daniel, as always, as he challenged Adria's skewed view of her religion. I liked how Adria tried to force the information out of Daniel, but couldn't. "You have a strong mind," she said. No doubt part of what intrigues her about Daniel, especially the foreshadowing part of "Don't worry, I won't hurt him." Then, looking straight at Daniel, "We have plans for you." That was just chilling. Adria is a great villainess and the Ori are great villains.

9/10 episode for me. The whole episode moved nicely and was both dramatic and action-packed.

Agreed. I loved the "intimate" disclosure of Shar're.This was a great episode. If only the show wasn't ending. Oh well I still have hope.

Arative
August 25th, 2006, 08:22 PM
Good episode! We saw some good action, loving the Ori more and more. Adria I thought was played just right, just the face we needed for the Ori. Having Bra'tac back was a bonus! I also thought that Vala was exceptional in this episode as well.

I would have prefered that instead of Sam saying "we heard from our allies on Langara, its been taken over" that she said "We heard from Jonas, Langara has been taken over, he is in hiding" Throw more of a bone to fans.

I'll be interested to see if the show held onto the ratings from last week.

LaCroix
August 25th, 2006, 08:22 PM
I think that Jonas is dead. It's a neat way of getting rid of a character that fans may want to reapear. Read that as sarcasm (sp?)

npattis
August 25th, 2006, 08:22 PM
Indeed, great episode.

Maxum
August 25th, 2006, 08:23 PM
Excellent episode. I love that SG-1 is returning more and more towards their dramatic roots. The levity of past missions is fast disappearing, and I'm loving it.

I really enjoyed Landry in this episode. He was solid in his dealings with the the Jaffa leader (don't remember his name). I liked how he called him on his hypocrisy regarding using the weapon against humans as opposed to fellow jaffa.

I think the new SG-1 is really starting to mesh (which is, of course, bittersweet). I think that Mitchell is really starting to gel nicely with the others, and I think he has a good relationship with Teal'c and Sam. I don't think he can relate as well to Daniel, but I actually like that about his character. It doesn't mean he values Daniel any less, just that he can relate to the warrior in Teal'c and the Colonel/Air force side of Carter.

Sam was her usual brilliant self, both getting the shields down and rescuing the Mitchell and Teal'c.

Vala and Daniel are making a nice team. Sorry guys, but I like these two together. I, too, like Vala toned down a little, but I'm glad that her snarkiness remains.

Loving Daniel, as always, as he challenged Adria's skewed view of her religion. I liked how Adria tried to force the information out of Daniel, but couldn't. "You have a strong mind," she said. No doubt part of what intrigues her about Daniel, especially the foreshadowing part of "Don't worry, I won't hurt him." Then, looking straight at Daniel, "We have plans for you." That was just chilling. Adria is a great villainess and the Ori are great villains.

9/10 episode for me. The whole episode moved nicely and was both dramatic and action-packed.

npattis
August 25th, 2006, 08:23 PM
But the thing that REALLY got to me was they just mentioned Langara had fallen. They didn't even mention Jonas's name!!!!

Beckmen
August 25th, 2006, 08:24 PM
I refuse to believe that a former main cast member was killed very unspectactularly and off-screen.

jackattack
August 25th, 2006, 08:24 PM
Yeah wow that Morrena Baccarin ( is that how you spell it?) is really something. Great episode. I'd say 9.45/10 only due to the beaming.

On other matters
A) Man Adria is a great villain. Much more evil than when we last saw her.

B) The Free jaffa Nation. Boy do they have it rough. I actually thought that the writer would sort of cop-out Dakara, so I thought it was very noble of them to administer such a crushing blow to our favorite ally. I think after seeing both Gerak and Set'ak it's only obvious that the only way for the Jaffa to survive, let alone be a nation, is under the leadership of :bratac13: ( which people are beginning to doubt based on his age) and of course :tealc: the most badass jaffa out there. I really hope Teal'c rsies up and becomes the Jaffa's salvation/savior. That would be just awesome.

C) Seeing how the Ori ships work. VERY cool. Just one question: How could stupid villagers have built it?

D) Landry is becoming slowly better as time goes on. Of ocurse nothing beats :hammond: but still his adamance to protect his team in his meeting with Set'ak showed some real leadership.

These are my thoughts.

jackattack
August 25th, 2006, 08:24 PM
Yeah wow that Morrena Baccarin ( is that how you spell it?) is really something. Great episode. I'd say 9.45/10 only due to the beaming.

On other matters
A) Man Adria is a great villain. Much more evil than when we last saw her.

B) The Free jaffa Nation. Boy do they have it rough. I actually thought that the writer would sort of cop-out Dakara, so I thought it was very noble of them to administer such a crushing blow to our favorite ally. I think after seeing both Gerak and Set'ak it's only obvious that the only way for the Jaffa to survive, let alone be a nation, is under the leadership of :bratac13: ( which people are beginning to doubt based on his age) and of course :tealc: the most badass jaffa out there. I really hope Teal'c rsies up and becomes the Jaffa's salvation/savior. That would be just awesome.

C) Seeing how the Ori ships work. VERY cool. Just one question: How could stupid villagers have built it?

D) Landry is becoming slowly better as time goes on. Of ocurse nothing beats :hammond: but still his adamance to protect his team in his meeting with Set'ak showed some real leadership.

These are my thoughts.

the fifth man
August 25th, 2006, 08:26 PM
I don't think I can find one thing in this ep that I didn't enjoy. Definitely a 10/10 from me.:) I liked how Daniel told Vala of Sha're, and that the Jaffa aren't exactly our allies anymore (not good ones anyways). Adria was better than I even thought she'd be (and more beautiful too).;)

I can't wait to see more of her, and what else lies ahead for our team this season. I'm definitely rewatching this one later tonight.:)

the fifth man
August 25th, 2006, 08:28 PM
But the thing that REALLY got to me was they just mentioned Langara had fallen. They didn't even mention Jonas's name!!!!

I've gotten used to it. They could have never mentioned his world again though. At least they did that much.

the fifth man
August 25th, 2006, 08:34 PM
IMO, sadly, both Warrick and Jonas are probably dead. And if they aren't yet, they are in hiding. I don't think they would last long with their whole worlds overrun.

Mikaeru
August 25th, 2006, 08:35 PM
I refuse to believe that a former main cast member was killed very unspectactularly and off-screen.

If they wanted to end the endless questions about bringing said character back onto the show. If they really liked/cared for the character they would have brought him back to die, but seeing as how they have viewed him like an ant during a park BBQ, they just wanted to squash him... So they did. I mean, come on, how many people actually thought that he would really ever come back? e_e
Sorry to put it so bluntly.

Kem Rixen
August 25th, 2006, 08:35 PM
I didn't really have high hopes for this episode and was focusing most of my attention on the Atlantis episode which looked like it was going to be great (and was). I was so happy when this episode was so amazing. I'm only a little disappointed that Jonas seems to be gone for good. Besides that, I thought this was a fantastic episode, definitly quality that would make another Network want this show.

Descent
August 25th, 2006, 08:36 PM
I loved what Vala said to Bratac at the end, so heartbreaking...:(

npattis
August 25th, 2006, 08:36 PM
I refuse to believe that a former main cast member was killed very unspectactularly and off-screen.

LOL, it's possible! Look at Earth: Final Conflict :)

Kem Rixen
August 25th, 2006, 08:37 PM
I really hope that Jonas is still alive, he was a great character, I would lose a lot of faith in the writers if they would just kill him off like this. I suppose I should be glad considering he hasn't even been meantioned since Season 7...

Xellos205
August 25th, 2006, 08:38 PM
I will watch and see. I'm not going to count him out yet.

FerCryinOutLoud!
August 25th, 2006, 08:39 PM
I really liked this epsiode. It was dark and had a lot of feeling. It was nice to see the connections on a personal level between the chracters. The Jaffa Nation seems to be run by crooked politicians. What a surprise? I guess when you thought you left Kansas, you really haven't. The one thing about it though is that i barely recognized the actress who plays Adria. In Firefly she seemed like a great actress, but in this episode it seemed like she was very wooden. (I apologize to the Firefly fans.) But i don't think it was her fault. I like the Ori but most of the priors and those who are representitive of the Ori are very drab like 16th century poetry. I just didn't buy the whole, "Adrias evil," bit. What? Choking people with your mind is evil now? That hasn't been evil since Darth Vader. I mean he actually killed someone everytime he did it. Well almost everyone. It's like they're trying too hard to make her evil. I just don't buy it and she doesn't strike me as terrifyingly uber evil like she's supposed to be.

All in all i gave it a 9/10

coolove
August 25th, 2006, 08:39 PM
I'm hoping both Warrick and Jonas are in hiding and are finding ways to help overthrow the Ori. I refuse to believe otherwise.

Major Gambit
August 25th, 2006, 08:39 PM
i reall hope that


he went into hiding and may be in a future episode.

Metonic
August 25th, 2006, 08:40 PM
Jonas can't die... he's a Hok'tar... lol... he can see the future... dododododod.... lol... He isnt dead, he's head of the underground

the fifth man
August 25th, 2006, 08:41 PM
I loved what Vala said to Bratac at the end, so heartbreaking...:(

True though. She is a lot deeper than people have given her character credit for.

Lt.Colonel John Sheppard
August 25th, 2006, 08:43 PM
Okay Counterstrike was a really good episode Andy Mikita did a good job on this episode. I started to understand about the info the black gear alternate SG-1 from "Ripple Effect" gave SGC that Chulak and dakara and most of the jaffa strongholds have capulated to the Ori. The Whole "we have plans for you" meant is that Daniel will be a prior later on in the season. what i wanted to understand is in what episode will they find the whole merlin's anti ori weapon betcha anything that it will be in the last 3 episodes of the season. I thought when i saw Dakara Fall i thought the Jaffa Free nation is going to be screwed now that two of the most highly valuate planets are gone. Teal'c and Bra'tac have no where to go except for the SGC and maybe one or two jaffa strongholds.

Descent
August 25th, 2006, 08:43 PM
True though. She is a lot deeper than people have given her character credit for.

Very true. A really great way to end the episode.

"She speaks like a battle seasoned warrior."
"Shes a mother...close enough."

the fifth man
August 25th, 2006, 08:45 PM
i reall hope that


he went into hiding and may be in a future episode.

I really wouldn't hold my breath on that one if I was you. This may be the only kind of mention about him we ever get. Especially being that this is the last season on Sci-Fi.

Oreo
August 25th, 2006, 08:47 PM
More so because this is the last season....

And people always come back from the dead, it's Stargate.

Major Gambit
August 25th, 2006, 08:48 PM
I really wouldn't hold my breath on that one if I was you. This may be the only kind of mention about him we ever get. Especially being that this is the last season on Sci-Fi.


ya i know, but you can always hope :jonas:

Metonic
August 25th, 2006, 08:49 PM
last season on Scifi... I believe we got another 5 years left before its the last season of SG-1 :)

the fifth man
August 25th, 2006, 08:49 PM
ya i know, but you can always hope :jonas:

Nothing wrong with that. If he did go out though, I'm sure he went down fighting.

kymeric
August 25th, 2006, 08:50 PM
What is the point of winning beyond survival now? Basically every world that we have seen for the last 10 years is being crushed by the ori. Whats the head count soo far? About 5-6 planets fall per episode? And thats not including the planets that are destroyed.

By the end of the season (show?) the only thing thats going to be left is Earth (duh) and thousands of worlds ruined by the ori. Depressing, but cool bad guys.

Metonic
August 25th, 2006, 08:53 PM
What is the point of winning beyond survival now? Basically every world that we have seen for the last 10 years is being crushed by the ori. Whats the head count soo far? About 5-6 planets fall per episode? And thats not including the planets that are destroyed.

By the end of the season (show?) the only thing thats going to be left is Earth (duh) and thousands of worlds ruined by the ori. Depressing, but cool bad guys.
orii only destroy worlds for supergates, they have no reason other wise... now wipe people out maybe...

the fifth man
August 25th, 2006, 08:54 PM
What is the point of winning beyond survival now? Basically every world that we have seen for the last 10 years is being crushed by the ori. Whats the head count soo far? About 5-6 planets fall per episode? And thats not including the planets that are destroyed.

By the end of the season (show?) the only thing thats going to be left is Earth (duh) and thousands of worlds ruined by the ori. Depressing, but cool bad guys.

Survival is the point of this struggle with the Ori. TPTB are just showing us how powerful the Ori really are by having so many worlds be either destroyed or converted by them. They are supposed to be an enemy far greater than the Goa'uld ever were, and personally, I think that TPTB are doing a great job portraying that. Everyone in the galaxy is desperate at this point.

Oreo
August 25th, 2006, 08:55 PM
Oddly I found this the best show of the season so far. It's ironic I enjoyed the first episode after word it was canceled. Not as great as before but no bugs / freak monster of the week.

Sauron18
August 25th, 2006, 08:56 PM
The Ori don't destroy the worlds they conquer, therefore most of those worlds are still intact.

They will undoubtley ravage up some of them pretty good, if there is too much resistance, but I presume Supergates are formed only on worlds which are mostly vacant, and would be, hence, not a waste.

the fifth man
August 25th, 2006, 08:56 PM
Oddly I found this the best show of the season so far. It's ironic I enjoyed the first episode after word it was canceled. Not as great as before but no bugs / freak monster of the week.

That is pretty ironic, isn't it? Such is the case sometimes, I guess.

FoolishPleasure
August 25th, 2006, 08:57 PM
Nice episode all the way around. Morena makes a great Adria! Interesting how Vala still has a bit of control, but Adria is still immature and learning. If this show can go on, we would have the opportunity to see Adria grow in strength and really get nasty (well, we might, but it will be rushed now).

Good work by all the cast. I really enjoyed Daniel's talk about Sha're, and we even got to see Landry off-world. And its always good to see Bra'tac. :)

I didn't like the "beaming out" rescue, but I'll forgive it. . .this time, because its been a bad week for us. ;)

Good comment about being a mother. Us gals can definitely be tough. :)

Side note - was that a commercial for MORE wrestling shows on SciFi? :S

Persephone
August 25th, 2006, 08:58 PM
I don't know why I didn't catch the name of Jonas's planet in the episode. I immediately caught Warrick's planet. Now, I just feel sad.

You probably didn't recognize it because it was only "Langara" for the very last Jonas episode they ever deigned to give us, Fallout. During his tenure with SG-1 it was still just Kelowna.

I too had a belly flip-flop, a cold chill, and all manner of NOOOO!!!!! reaction when I heard the news about Langara. Also, similar annoyance with the writers for not mentioning him by name. I can honestly live with Corin not coming back to the show anymore, particularly if this is the last season, and it's also my personal belief that there's some behind-the-scenes politics involved in there that they very professionally don't divulge to the fans), but as far as Jonas goes, the guy was part of the team for a while, for crying out loud. What, now he just gets tossed in with "our allies"? Jonas put on par with the whining, sniveling, eternally annoying Kelowna/Terrani/Andari crowds? We can't mention his name once in a while?

okay, this is a thread about "Countersrike" I'm sorry.

Barring my knee-jerk with regards to my favorite character, I otherwise loved this episode, which seems to be the popular sentiment. I thought the scene between Daniel and Vala discussing Sha're was one of the most poignant moments we've had in a long time, and it was nice to reach all the way back to the show's early years that way (talk about mentioning names we haven't heard in a while - lol). Morena Baccarin's performance (which I have been looking forward to all week) was fantastic, I thought. At first I wasn't sure how I felt about her in the first scene, but if you stop and think about it, how does one portray a person with the greatest powers known to mankind, an army of devout followers at her beck and call, but who's never learned wisdom or much of anything for that matter, beyond what they plugged into her brain, for that matter. I think Morena brought a subtle sense of instability and mental recklessness to Adria, and this more than anything is what makes her one of the most truly dangerous, and as others here have described it, dark, edgy villains this show has ever had.

And well, TPTB, if any of you are reading. I still love your show. I wish you the best of luck in finding a new home. I'm looking forward to whatever remains. (And I'm going to keep believing that my boy is still alive and kicking somewhere on crappy ol' Langara until we're told otherwise. We sure do miss him). :jonas:

*** (out of four)

the fifth man
August 25th, 2006, 08:58 PM
The Ori don't destroy the worlds they conquer, therefore most of those worlds are still intact.

They will undoubtley ravage up some of them pretty good, if there is too much resistance, but I presume Supergates are formed only on worlds which are mostly vacant, and would be, hence, not a waste.

Personally, by destroyed, I meant layed waste to.

Descent
August 25th, 2006, 08:58 PM
Its not just our survival at this point, what about all those planets that are being forced to worship the Ori? Desperation = death. The Jaffa got desperate and they paid the price, first Chulak, now Dakara.

Sauron18
August 25th, 2006, 09:01 PM
Personally, by destroyed, I meant layed waste to.
I know, but someone suggested the Supergate Planets, which would be the only reason (other than an Extreme Resistance) to wipe out a planet.

The Ori aren't here to kill us or anyone (other than the Ancients)

the fifth man
August 25th, 2006, 09:02 PM
Its not just our survival at this point, what about all those planets that are being forced to worship the Ori? Desperation = death. The Jaffa got desperate and they paid the price, first Chulak, now Dakara.

That's why this enemy and this season are so great IMO. This is the toughest situation SG-1 has ever found itself in. It looks so hopeless. It will take everything they can muster and then some to come out of this and save not just Earth, but the entire galaxy.

L.A. Doyle
August 25th, 2006, 09:03 PM
Great ep! Why oh why are they canceling it now!? :(

I was glad to see Bra'tac back, as well as the Jaffa. Strained relations, huh? We got some kick butt Sam in this ep as well as science Sam. Very cool. :sam: Beaming is again getting old. I like the relationship btw Adria and Vala. Vala and Daniel also had some nice moments. And Jonas and Warrick! I hope they are alright! Overall, nice. :)

the fifth man
August 25th, 2006, 09:03 PM
The Ori aren't here to kill us or anyone (other than the Ancients)

Oh, I know that. Ideally, they'd have us all worshipping them. That way, they could destroy the Ancients that much sooner.

Descent
August 25th, 2006, 09:03 PM
Side note - was that a commercial for MORE wrestling shows on SciFi? :S

Disgusting isn't it? :P

Daniel is still the character I find most interesting on this show. Especially after Adria's eerie "We have plans for you."

Poor Danny boy. :daniel23:

Major Gambit
August 25th, 2006, 09:04 PM
Survival is the point of this struggle with the Ori. TPTB are just showing us how powerful the Ori really are by having so many worlds be either destroyed or converted by them. They are supposed to be an enemy far greater than the Goa'uld ever were, and personally, I think that TPTB are doing a great job portraying that. Everyone in the galaxy is desperate at this point.



as usual you have taken the words out of my mouth :D

the fifth man
August 25th, 2006, 09:04 PM
Disgusting isn't it? :P

Daniel is still the character I find most interesting on this show. Especially after Adria's eerie "We have plans for you."

Poor Danny boy. :daniel23:

Well, if by plans for him she meant a little alone time, just him and her, I'd consider it if I were Daniel.;)

hypergate
August 25th, 2006, 09:05 PM
They might have given a lead in for a Jonas episode, or he could just be dead. Langera and Heberdan have fallen. Two of my favorite planets, what the heck.

the fifth man
August 25th, 2006, 09:06 PM
as usual you have taken the words out of my mouth :D

I'm sorry. I'll try and stop reading your mind, my friend.:)

Mitchell82
August 25th, 2006, 09:06 PM
True though. She is a lot deeper than people have given her character credit for.
Yes she is. Brought a tear to me eye!

Dromag67
August 25th, 2006, 09:07 PM
I also think its awesome how we can look back at all the friends we made, and they actually talk about them falling. Especially Hebridan falling, their world was probably the most friendly to us without being condescending, and now with Jonas' planet is fallen.

All 10 years of work has been smashed down in a couple months, pretty impressive.

I just wish we had another season to revisit and liberate all of our friends who have fallen to the Ori. :(

Mitchell82
August 25th, 2006, 09:07 PM
Well, if by plans for him she meant a little alone time, just him and her, I'd consider it if I were Daniel.;)
I would to.! Anyway it's nice to see a little light shed on the shroud.

the fifth man
August 25th, 2006, 09:07 PM
Yes she is. Brought a tear to me eye!

I just think it was one of the deepest moments yet conveyed by her character.

Hybridbabe
August 25th, 2006, 09:09 PM
Very true. A really great way to end the episode.

"She speaks like a battle seasoned warrior."
"Shes a mother...close enough."

I loved that. What a way for Daniel to stick up for her, and what a way to describe Vala in this episode.

I loved her over the top in the previous episodes and the ones from S9, but this one made such an impact for me: Vala is an amazing character when handled right. You never know what exactly you're going to get with her, and her depth is far deeper than at first sight. She was absolutely perfect in this episode- Strong, stubborn, determined, saddened, surprised, pained-yet-still-striving-forward.... This is the Vala I love to see.

And Daniel was even par with her. I love how he's opening up to her a tiny bit, especially about Sha're. That, right there, made my day. Their relationship is a tangled jumble of brambles, vines and thorns, with a few roses sprinkled in between. It takes time for them to weed everything out, but when they do, you get moments like the ones in this ep (his concern about Adria being lost, telling her about Sha're, playing off of each other when Vala said she was stubborn, the ending...).

The other members were awesome as well. I felt Cam really jived well with everyone else, especially Teal'c. Sam was doing her science geek thing, which is nice to see (and what happened with the shields WASN'T her fault! Bout time that happened!). She didn't get a lot of screen time but then again, what time she did get was worth seeing (loved her hat at the beginning lol). Teal'c showing anger/betrayal from his own people using the weapon was awesome, because it's a side of Teal'c we often don't get to see, and he rocked during the battle scene w/ the other Jaffa.

Landry's decision to not have an escort seemed a bit stupid to me, but when the boss says no, he means no. He's still learning the ropes that Hammond, Weir, and Jack learned while in command. He's still a bit of a newbie in that regard. Plus, I believe he also wanted to prove that he could go out and do stuff on his own like SG1 lol! The Dr. Phil quotes were well placed and well used.

This episode made me really dislike the Jaffa. What ungrateful morons they are (Teal'c and Bray'tac excluded)! They act more like toddlers trying to act mature than the grownups they're supposed to be!

Adria.... oh man. When TPTB cast a villian, they cast one. Morena was an absolutely perfect choice for the role! WOW. She perfectly blended innocence with conviction, showing how she's still a child, but also the Orici. And her chilling "We have plans for you" made me think of a child's wicked reply to what they'd do to their new toy as soon as they get it, like, "don't worry, I won't hurt you... much. This will be fun!" Creepy!!!!

9.9999999999/10 (the only thing preventing this from being a 10 is the beaming..... but it's freaking close to being one!)

Descent
August 25th, 2006, 09:10 PM
I just think it was one of the deepest moments yet conveyed by her character.

Reminded me of that great moment of her in "The Powers That Be". I'd liked to see more of that side of Vala. :vala:

the fifth man
August 25th, 2006, 09:10 PM
I also think its awesome how we can look back at all the friends we made, and they actually talk about them falling. Especially Hebridan falling, their world was probably the most friendly to us without being condescending, and now with Jonas' planet is fallen.

All 10 years of work has been smashed down in a couple months, pretty impressive.

I just wish we had another season to revisit and liberate all of our friends who have fallen to the Ori. :(

I know what you mean. It is nice though that TPTB haven't forgotten the past of this show. We may not like what's happened to our friends out there, but it just helps to show how dire things are out in the galaxy right now. More than ever, it proves that SG-1 must find a way to combat the Ori effectively. If not, all will be lost.

Mitchell82
August 25th, 2006, 09:10 PM
That's why this enemy and this season are so great IMO. This is the toughest situation SG-1 has ever found itself in. It looks so hopeless. It will take everything they can muster and then some to come out of this and save not just Earth, but the entire galaxy.
Indeed. We have much more than our survival at risk here. It is our beliefs as well as Billions of innocent people. I couldn't have made a better enemy myself.

the fifth man
August 25th, 2006, 09:12 PM
Reminded me of that great moment of her in "The Powers That Be". I'd liked to see more of that side of Vala. :vala:

I think we will. Don't forget, her "little girl" is the one out there doing all these horrible things in the galaxy. This will only continue, and it will affect Vala.

Commander Jumper
August 25th, 2006, 09:20 PM
During counterstrike we found out that
counterstrike spoilers season 10
Jonas's home world has gone ori so do you think this is TPTB ways of getting rid of him. do you think Jonas is still alive
I was thinking that oo!!! :eek: i guess cool people think alike eh ;) I was like Noooooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!

Bragi
August 25th, 2006, 09:22 PM
Disgusting isn't it? :P

Daniel is still the character I find most interesting on this show. Especially after Adria's eerie "We have plans for you."

Poor Danny boy. :daniel23:

You have any idea how much I wish it were me she had said that too? Think she would have appreciated my response?

Adria: We have plans for you.
Bragi: (long pause, look to Vala, too back to Adria) Are you coming on to me? You really are your mother's daughter, you know that?

NowIWillDestroyAbydos
August 25th, 2006, 09:24 PM
That would be a cool Series Finale, Adria finds out Jonas started an underground movement against the Ori and kidnaps him because of it (for interrogation). SG-1 (including Jack) have to get him back.

Mitchell82
August 25th, 2006, 09:25 PM
Nothing wrong with that. If he did go out though, I'm sure he went down fighting.
Oh I have no doubt about that. I watched the episode twice and didn't catch the planet names. Where exactly is it mentioned and or who says it?

LaCroix
August 25th, 2006, 09:29 PM
Oh I have no doubt about that. I watched the episode twice and didn't catch the planet names. Where exactly is it mentioned and or who says it?

When there all in the briefing room and Sam walks in with the news.

Bragi
August 25th, 2006, 09:29 PM
Oh I have no doubt about that. I watched the episode twice and didn't catch the planet names. Where exactly is it mentioned and or who says it?

It's Sam's very last line.

Mitchell82
August 25th, 2006, 09:30 PM
When there all in the briefing room and Sam walks in with the news.
I'll have to rewind my tape and check it out.

yowo
August 25th, 2006, 09:34 PM
I liked this episode. Great TEAM feeling. :jack_new_anime07: :samanime20: :daniel24: :tealc:

:sam59: I always love the way Sam figures it all out. She is the best! I love the way she always comforts the others by a gentle touch. Like when she touched Tealícs arm to say Iím sorry about Dakara.

:indeed: I loved how Tealíc showed remorse for the action of his fellow Jaffa.

:daniel: I also Love the concern Daniel showed for Vala. It was so touching when he told her about Shar're.

This was a good episode but it was so bittersweet knowing that it might be one of the last. :jack_new15: :sam34: :tealc44: :danielanime05:

SG-1 FOREVER

Bragi
August 25th, 2006, 09:41 PM
Survival is the point of this struggle with the Ori. TPTB are just showing us how powerful the Ori really are by having so many worlds be either destroyed or converted by them. They are supposed to be an enemy far greater than the Goa'uld ever were, and personally, I think that TPTB are doing a great job portraying that. Everyone in the galaxy is desperate at this point.

And keep in mind that when we first opened the Gate the Goa'uld had complete domination of the galaxy with the exception of a few Asgard-protected worlds, tiny pockets of isolation like the Aschen Confederacy and Hebridan. These isolated pockets were no match for the Goa'uld.

Even the Tollan fell once Anubis came on the scene. I have a feeling that the Nox would have fallen too, had Anubis taken the time. Of all the civilizations I want to see in the last few episodes, I want to see the Nox again. I have a feeling their cloaking technology won't do much against that Ori beam weapon.

Point is, like I've been saying all along; we're in the same situation we were in when the first reel of film began rolling in the movie theaters. We're facing an enemy that vastly out-classes us and will very shortly have complete control of not just this, but other galaxies as well.

AutumnDream
August 25th, 2006, 09:45 PM
I'm getting SICK of Malozzi's scripts being the only ones that have convenient beaming (at least Flesh and Blood made SOME sense as the ship was on the planet). Any other writer could have thought of something CREATIVE to do there.

The rest of the episode was good but every episode that involves the stupid asgard beam to save anyone at the last second gets -points from me. Why do the writers have to be so stupid? They know its convenient and even though they attempt to joke at their incompetance to write a good escape in "200", (and I bet malozzi wrote that segment of the episode) it still gets old and annoying. FAST.

7/10. I'll watch the episode again later to find all the plot holes because I feel like ripping Malozzi's script into shreds. But the convenience beaming is really getting sickening.

It's happening too much on Atlantis AND SG-1. I swear, that "tech" was the worst thing to happen to this show. Lets beam the entire building out off the Earth! And in Flesh and Blood, the same stupid crap happened.

/sigh


EDIT: I'll be positive about some things though. Vala grew on me this week. She has great potential. She and Daniel being able to interact on that kind of level is really nice. When I heard Daniel would tell her about Sha're, I figured it would be something sexually initiated, but this actually fit with the episode.

Fun to see an Ori ship as well. I just wish the good story wasn't ruined by the beaming.

I'm kind of sad to see the "Jaffa Nation" go, as storylines involving them tended to be good. But another "we didn't say theyre dead so they aren't nessecarily gone" stunt was pulled.


Yeah. Mallozi's scripts piss me off too. It's unbelievable how juvenile and lazy his writing is most of the time. Then again, most of the other writers aren't much better. They're probably all tired of their jobs. Maybe if Season 11 is on another network, they'll get people who actually know how to write.

Pocus
August 25th, 2006, 09:48 PM
Great episode! Adria is an amazing villianess. She seems to truly believe she is doing the right thing. Loved how she is so convinced she can turn her mother to her side. I wonder what would happen if she can't. She said something about that but I can't remember her exact words.

Vala was great. She tries so hard to be tough but every once in awhile we get to see the softer side. Was she truly relieved when she thought Adria was dead? I believe she thought she should be. She has a connection with her daughter that could play an important role later.

Sam got to use her amazing Dell to cruise the Ori ships intranet. (my hubby tells everyone to get a Dell).

Plans for Daniel! Don't we all!

Maybe the beaming technology will be on the fritz for a couple of episodes :S

I am really enjoying this season so much.

O'Neil
August 25th, 2006, 09:48 PM
With all these episodes of the Ori kicking butt, and SG-1 once again getting their butt handed to them, (or having the retreat) I can only hope one of 2 things happen to make this season worth anything....

1. They find the pendant and take care of the Ori

2. The ancients show up and take care of business.

In the past 10 years, we havent seen how the ancients fight. Everything keeps leading up to "the ancients this", or "the ancients that". For crying out loud, just hurry up and do something.

Mesenet
August 25th, 2006, 10:00 PM
Yup. Jonas is on Langara and Warrick is on Hebridan. Are they both dead or are they converted? Or are they in hiding?

You know, it would have been NICE if one of them mentioned their names.

I'd like to think they are in hiding and will resurface in a future ep. (Foolish follie? :P)

SKY BLUE
August 25th, 2006, 10:06 PM
Did you hear what Vala said about "We can't change the past" ??
AAAHH but they can!! Time travel is possible in this universe. SG1 has done it a few times. They just have to go back and vaporize that thing that Vala and Danial used to meet the Evil ORI.
Maybe that's what Merlin's device can do.

Bragi
August 25th, 2006, 10:07 PM
Yeah. Mallozi's scripts piss me off too. It's unbelievable how juvenile and lazy his writing is most of the time. Then again, most of the other writers aren't much better. They're probably all tired of their jobs. Maybe if Season 11 is on another network, they'll get people who actually know how to write.

So you agree. A lot of the writing for the past ten years has been bad at times, and it isn't just the last two years that have been shoddy.

Thank you.

Anyway, he had written himself into a corner, that happens sometimes. It's a huge ship and there was no way Vala and Daniel were going to be able to get away from Adria. If they could have incapacitated her, then they would have, but then she wouldn't really be all that intimidating a bad gal, now would she?

What should he have done? Do they somehow manage to all make it to the ring room and ring out in the nick of time? Does Adria somehow protect them from the Dakaran device and then let them go, out of the goodness of her heart? Does Daniel point behind Adria, yell "look out!" then he and Vala run away while she's not looking?

Is beaming off the ship in the nick of time cliche? Yes. I've got news for you though, anything in the nick of time is cliche. Whether you're jumping in a Glider right before the Ha'tak blows up, or jumping to hyperspace right before the sun blows up, or beaming out of a bad situation, it's all been done to death. The nick of time itself is cliche. There's never a nick of time in real life, that's why it's called fiction. And that's why, when there is a real life nick of time event, it's plastered all over the news.

esoap524
August 25th, 2006, 10:15 PM
Reminded me of that great moment of her in "The Powers That Be". I'd liked to see more of that side of Vala. :vala:

I thought the same thing.

CB is good with the funny but I always thought her seriousness had a touch of poingancy to it. I saw it in the episode you mentioned and also here.

I had been down on the idea of Morena, who played my least favorite character on Firefly--I think she's beautiful but boring. I stand corrected. I thought the scenes between her and Vala were excellent. Here she is, the all powerful ruler of the Ori and still wants her mother's love and affection. Talk about a rock and a hard place for Vala. She looked like she wanted to stay with Adria in exchange for the SG1 swap ("let everyone go).

You have to wonder...Adria is still very immature emotionally, it would seem. How is she going to handle THIS abandonment? So far, the idea of her mother's love may have tempered her a little. Well...that's gone.

I really thought this was a great opportunity for everyone. We still had some Vala snark but there was a lot more going on (thank you, thank you!) with her. Sam was typically competent--I don't know what the intent was but I thought it was cool that she picked up that staff. I liked Mitchell and Teal'c' and Mitchell's rumination over his last words. Landry was an even match for that other guy. Poor Br'tac!

there were sufficient twists and turns to keep me interested and I thought Vala's last line was well played. Bratac's response was a little heavy handed but he tends to be that way anyhow (it seems to me)

So...9/10...1 point off for the easy interface between the Dell Xps and the Ori ship. Why can't I hook up my home network that easily? OTOH, they do that stuff on "24" all the time and I manage to look past it...

ok...10/10, definitely the best this season (some convenient beamings aside), a lot of good drama and interpersonal conflict, good visual effects, great character moments, and a bit chilling to think of the evil that they're facing now.

Thanks for cancelling it, SciFI (not!)

Mesenet
August 25th, 2006, 10:19 PM
On other matters
A) Man Adria is a great villain. Much more evil than when we last saw her.


Of course she was about 12 the last time we saw her. ;)

But yes, the Adria character brings more dimension and depth the the verse spouting Ori.

NightGloom
August 25th, 2006, 10:20 PM
Great episode, bad ending. I'm starting to actually like Vala, as long as the writers keep reminding us that she has a vulnerable side.

I really like the Vala/ Adria storyline.
Love the Daniel/ Vala dynamic- not as a ship, but more like a camraderie.
Landry was pretty awesome actually going off-world


The jaffa are kinda getting a little annoying again though...

verbalkint
August 25th, 2006, 10:21 PM
Yeah wow that Morrena Baccarin ( is that how you spell it?) is really something. Great episode. I'd say 9.45/10 only due to the beaming.

On other matters
A) Man Adria is a great villain. Much more evil than when we last saw her.

B) The Free jaffa Nation. Boy do they have it rough. I actually thought that the writer would sort of cop-out Dakara, so I thought it was very noble of them to administer such a crushing blow to our favorite ally. I think after seeing both Gerak and Set'ak it's only obvious that the only way for the Jaffa to survive, let alone be a nation, is under the leadership of :bratac13: ( which people are beginning to doubt based on his age) and of course :tealc: the most badass jaffa out there. I really hope Teal'c rsies up and becomes the Jaffa's salvation/savior. That would be just awesome.

C) Seeing how the Ori ships work. VERY cool. Just one question: How could stupid villagers have built it?

D) Landry is becoming slowly better as time goes on. Of ocurse nothing beats :hammond: but still his adamance to protect his team in his meeting with Set'ak showed some real leadership.

These are my thoughts.
How could the villagers build such advanced ships? Well that is the exact question running through my mind when I saw the tech inside the walls.

Sauron18
August 25th, 2006, 10:22 PM
I liked how Adria seems so Ori-ish, she knows everything that's happening in her ship, and is really in full control, and yet seems like she is quite humble.

I also enjoy how she considers herself an Ori, and basically how she is.

Orion's Star
August 25th, 2006, 10:30 PM
Since when does an Ori ship A)not notice that the Odyssey is floating above the planet that it is landed on, and B)not do anything about the ship that they would almost certainly see as a threat? It's not like the Odyssey was cloaked or hiding behind a moon or anything, it was just...there.

The only people on all of Dakara are about four Jaffa and the head council dude? What about everybody else? I thought the whole council was on Dakara? Since when are there only about five or six people on the whole planet?

Emerson's Walter-equivalent is a Major? Wow, that is a pretty high rank for some guy who just sits in a chair and looks at a console.

Morena really made this episode though. She is a spectacular woman and watching her talk about Origin is very entertaining.

Gate gal
August 25th, 2006, 10:36 PM
I didn't expect much from this episode. The spoilers didn't really appeal to me, but I tuned in because its SG1 and I don't miss SG1. Wow! The spoilers didn't do it justice. This was a great episode. I was pleasantly suprised. I know people are tired of the beaming technology and space ships, but to me it is just the natural progression. SG1 has been scouting the galaxy for 10 years seeking new allies and technology to defend earth. Every time they get beamed out of a dangerous situation or take a ship across the galaxy, it is proof that they have been successful. TPTB have done a good job incorporating the new tech with the gate itself. I did like that they weren't able to beam off the ship too quickly tonight. I loved Sam's rescue of Teal'c and Cameron. The moment between Daniel and Vala where they discussed Shar'e was precious. I loved the scenes between General Landry and Bra'tac. It is really hard to give a fair amount of screen time to so many cast members, but I think TPTB did it very well tonight! 9/10 (Would have been a 10 if they mentioned Jonas by name, but it is cool that they mentioned familiar planets.) How are they going to defeat the Ori by the end of the season? We need a season 11!

Sauron18
August 25th, 2006, 10:42 PM
Since when does an Ori ship A)not notice that the Odyssey is floating above the planet that it is landed on, and B)not do anything about the ship that they would almost certainly see as a threat? It's not like the Odyssey was cloaked or hiding behind a moon or anything, it was just...there.
Well, Ori Ships normally have a crew. Yes Adria could handle it pretty well on her own, but she was kind of distracted.....



The only people on all of Dakara are about four Jaffa and the head council dude? What about everybody else? I thought the whole council was on Dakara? Since when are there only about five or six people on the whole planet?
It was mentioned on the episode that the Jaffa had already been evacuated for use of the weapon.



Morena really made this episode though. She is a spectacular woman and watching her talk about Origin is very entertaining.
Oh yeah, she's definetley awesome :hammond:

NotAscended
August 25th, 2006, 10:48 PM
Loved seeing grown up Adria. I really liked the way that Morena brought a regal air to her as the leader and inspiration for the troops of Origin, but also saw her humanity coming through in her desire to connect with her mother and have her with her. She succeeded in making Adria both a very commanding presence but also showing that she is still young and doesn't know how to deal with her feelings.

Orion's Star
August 25th, 2006, 10:49 PM
Well, Ori Ships normally have a crew. Yes Adria could handle it pretty well on her own, but she was kind of distracted.....
I was talking mainly about the beginning of the episode, when the Ori ship would have still been fully crewed and Adria would not have been distracted at all. Why would they have not noticed the Odyssey just floating around?




It was mentioned on the episode that the Jaffa had already been evacuated for use of the weapon.
Really? All I remember was that they had said they were moving to a shielded chamber, but if they evacuated then that makes sense. Although that must have been a lot of people to evacuate in the short time that the head council guy decided to use the weapon.

Congerking
August 25th, 2006, 10:52 PM
all i know is that i hope there wasn't much story after adria came on screen, cause i just couldn't stop looking at her.

Mesenet
August 25th, 2006, 11:05 PM
Wow, M&M actually wrote an eposide that I really liked. Nice to see they can write for the emotional pull and ethical debate that is reminiscent of SG-1 in the early years.

Giant aww moment when Daniel shared his personal experience and feelings about Sha're to Vala.

The mother/daughter bond that still exists between Vala and Adria.
Adria's own struggle with seeking mommy's approval yet performing her duties the Orici.

The struggle amongst the Jaffa themselves - defining their own individuality has actually fractured them as a race.

The Tau'ri and Jaffas' point of view about the weapon on Dakara.

An intelligent script with the requiste explosive scenes. Happy to see S10 is rocking.

Dark Falcon
August 25th, 2006, 11:31 PM
On the positive side. . . . . . Origin does look a lot more appealing these days.

I've said it before, I'll say it again: Hallowed is that beauty.

Yeah, Adria was cute and innocent in "Flesh and Blood". Now,
she's...sexy. :o

"We have plans for you..." Hmm...I actually liked that line because
it gave me a kind of "evil charm" feel that I like to experience
in sci fi stories. :)

NOOOO!! Dakarra is destroyed! :( Will Teal'c become the last of
his kind? With the Jaffa dying, and the Ancients unwilling to
do anything, I, (sorry to say this, but) doubt if SG-1 can even
win the war against the Ori. If SG-1 can win the war, they'd
better pick up the pace in terms of finding that "Sangraal" or
Earth, and the galaxy for that matter, will be destroyed or
bowing down to Origin.

You know, there's one thing to consider here: the fact that our heroes
are losing to the antagonists. This is forcing our characters to develop,
which impresses both critics and fans alike. The same thing
happened when Star Wars was made. Star Wars was good, but
when The Empire Strikes Back was made, it won the
Movie of the Year award. Mostly because the main characters
developed since everything they believed in started to break down.

I hope that the situation our characters are in helps boost the
ratings.

I liked how Daniel told Vala about Sha're. Plus, Bra'tac's words
about Vala "having the heart of a battered warrior" were
a good touch.

I have an idea. We should, somehow, get the Wraith and the Ori
to fight each other. :)

mindwarped
August 25th, 2006, 11:33 PM
I think that Jonas went with the flow. Said he believed, and is now slowly starting an underground movement on his planet to fight the Ori

mindwarped
August 25th, 2006, 11:34 PM
That would be a cool Series Finale, Adria finds out Jonas started an underground movement against the Ori and kidnaps him because of it (for interrogation). SG-1 (including Jack) have to get him back.

because he knows where the weapon is

JanusAncient
August 25th, 2006, 11:39 PM
I thoroughly enjoyed this episode. What should I mention first, well I would like to know what Adria whispered to the Prior before going inside, that isn't going to happen. The Ori ship, it is just a work of art. How easily it dispatched those Ha'tak, kind of made me smile, didn't very much like the Jaffa after they'd killed so many innocents. Arrived at Dakara within minutes, which still leaves me fuzzy about the speed of Ori hyperdrives. The power source zero point energy perhaps, but Ori style. Teal'c on the bridge talking about how he was ashamed, the interactions between Daniel, Vala, and Adria. The Jaffa, this new leader, rather former leader, seemed like he was on the fast route to becoming a power hungry dictator. I recognized the names of the two planets immediately, and it would have been nice to have mentioned Jonas, or if the Ori were letting the Serrakin people live, to see if it's really just about humans worshipping the Ori as Orlin said, which I'm beginning to doubt, well I've always doubted. When Bra'tack and Landry looked back over their shoulder's, and you saw the Ori beam weapon strike the Dakara device, that was a great shot. I almost forgot, Adria mentioned ships on their way, many many ships, and the galaxy being converted within the year. They don't have a lot of time to find those weapons, because once those ships arrive, it will be far too late.

coolove
August 25th, 2006, 11:52 PM
I too had a belly flip-flop, a cold chill, and all manner of NOOOO!!!!! reaction when I heard the news about Langara. Also, similar annoyance with the writers for not mentioning him by name. I can honestly live with Corin not coming back to the show anymore, particularly if this is the last season, and it's also my personal belief that there's some behind-the-scenes politics involved in there that they very professionally don't divulge to the fans), but as far as Jonas goes, the guy was part of the team for a while, for crying out loud. What, now he just gets tossed in with "our allies"? Jonas put on par with the whining, sniveling, eternally annoying Kelowna/Terrani/Andari crowds? We can't mention his name once in a while?

Yep, talk about TPTB twisting the Jonas knife in me. Jonas is alive. Count on it. :) But despite that, this episode was by far one of the best this season.

All hail the USAF
August 26th, 2006, 12:05 AM
Carter said in Counterstrike that HEBRIDAN and Langara both fell to the Ori, does this mean maybe Jonas escaped and may be on his way to the SGC?

Fatewarns
August 26th, 2006, 12:06 AM
Yeah. Mallozi's scripts piss me off too. It's unbelievable how juvenile and lazy his writing is most of the time. Then again, most of the other writers aren't much better. They're probably all tired of their jobs. Maybe if Season 11 is on another network, they'll get people who actually know how to write.

well can you think of a better way for them to get off the ship

Sauron18
August 26th, 2006, 12:15 AM
I was talking mainly about the beginning of the episode, when the Ori ship would have still been fully crewed and Adria would not have been distracted at all. Why would they have not noticed the Odyssey just floating around?
Doesn't the Deadalus have a cloak?




Really? All I remember was that they had said they were moving to a shielded chamber, but if they evacuated then that makes sense. Although that must have been a lot of people to evacuate in the short time that the head council guy decided to use the weapon.
I'm pretty sure I do remember a comment like this.... :jack:

Oreo
August 26th, 2006, 12:24 AM
Did you hear what Vala said about "We can't change the past" ??
AAAHH but they can!! Time travel is possible in this universe. SG1 has done it a few times. They just have to go back and vaporize that thing that Vala and Danial used to meet the Evil ORI.
Maybe that's what Merlin's device can do.


I like that idea. Make the last few years of the ****y Ori just nothing.

Dromag67
August 26th, 2006, 12:26 AM
Probably not now that SG-1 is getting canceled.

Orion's Star
August 26th, 2006, 12:29 AM
Doesn't the Deadalus have a cloak?
If the Odyssey does have a cloak, it wasn't using it. I watched the beginning again and it was just hanging around like it was taking a Sunday stroll through the neighborhood.

Sauron18
August 26th, 2006, 12:31 AM
If the Odyssey does have a cloak, it wasn't using it. I watched the beginning again and it was just hanging around like it was taking a Sunday stroll through the neighborhood.
Odyssey, right, mental typo :jack:

All hail the USAF
August 26th, 2006, 12:33 AM
He could for one of the last eps.

memnarch
August 26th, 2006, 12:34 AM
We are, in a word: screwed! Set'ak said that the area around the capital of Dakara had been evacuated, but surely not the whole planet. Without this rallying point for their people, the Jaffa are more vulnerable than ever, and without other allies to rely on, we're pretty much going it alone, since the asgard are busy rebuilding their society, for the most part. Anyway, exceptional job by Claudia Black this time round! I am loving Vala more and more. Her scene with Daniel about Sha're was everything I'd hoped it be and her interaction with her daughter similar to last time, except Vala was in much more danger this time, given Adria's new powers. Everyone had something to do here, Sam bashing Jaffa with Prior sticks, Teal'c's righteous outrage, Mitchell's last words, Landry's hard nosed negotiating, Bra'tac's feeling helpless (an interesting turn), and Daniel's haunting conversation with Adria. A great episode that posed some interesting questions, had some humor sprinkled in, and plenty of action.

Overall, 4/4 stars!

Miyth
August 26th, 2006, 12:40 AM
Great episode, I think they did the scene where Daniel tells Vala about Sha're very well. I was worried about how they were going to pull that off. If season 11 is seriously cancelled then I really hope they can think of a way to defeat the Ori by the end of this season, 'cause I'd just hate for a cliff hanger that will never be continued.

Mitchell82
August 26th, 2006, 12:49 AM
Be nice to see him again as i liked Jonas.

Mitchell82
August 26th, 2006, 12:52 AM
because he knows where the weapon is
Hmm,could be.

Mitchell82
August 26th, 2006, 01:05 AM
Great episode, I think they did the scene where Daniel tells Vala about Sha're very well. I was worried about how they were going to pull that off. If season 11 is seriously cancelled then I really hope they can think of a way to defeat the Ori by the end of this season, 'cause I'd just hate for a cliff hanger that will never be continued.
Since the last 3 episodes havent been written, I don't think you have anything to worry about.

Albion
August 26th, 2006, 01:48 AM
Since the last 3 episodes havent been written, I don't think you have anything to worry about.

Oh, I wouldn't feel safe just yet. ;) I suspect that they will go for an open-ended finale rather than tying things up. If they're looking towards continuing the franchise in the future with a TV or theatrical movie, then they're going to want to leave a lot of loose ends to carry on with.

Re. the episode. Haven't seen it yet, but have to say from reading some of the comments hear I'm greatly disappointed to hear that they're still carrying on with the ridiculously easy way out for our heroes and that annoying transporter beam. <sigh> It's well nigh time the writers stopped being lazy and started working harder with their plots. Give us something original. SG1 didn't need no stinkin' transporters for years and they managed to get out of trouble.

Secondly, one of the things I used to love about SG1 was the way they'd refer to their history and previous events. I'm appalled to hear that they could mention Langara and Hebridian having fallen to the Ori and not mention Warwick, Jonas, or others we know there. This whole thing they've had since RDA left of never mentioning the past eight seasons, as though they don't exist, is insulting.

Albion :)

Albion
August 26th, 2006, 01:50 AM
Seriously doubt it. Haven't you noticed that TPTB like to pretend Jonas never existed? The fact that they couldn't even take a moment to mention his name when telling us that Langara had fallen to the Ori should be a hint that they're not likely to be phoning CN for a guest spot any time soon.

Albion :)

Oreo
August 26th, 2006, 01:51 AM
He's dead Jim.

brulz
August 26th, 2006, 01:52 AM
So...9/10...1 point off for the easy interface between the Dell Xps and the Ori ship. Why can't I hook up my home network that easily? OTOH, they do that stuff on "24" all the time and I manage to look past it...


I think it's kinda funny that they would be lugging around a heavy ass laptop like the XPS. Does the Ori interface program graphically intense.

btw.. I am tired of seeing Dell all over the place. I would think the military would use something like a Panasonic ToughBook (http://laptopmag.com/Review/Panasonic-Toughbook-CF-74.htm) or at least a ThinkPad or MacBook. Dells are cheap, flimsy pieces of crap.

My guess is the studio has a marketing deal with them. This is reinforced because we are never able to see the brand name on the tablets (at least I don't remeber seeing the brand) that are used on the show.

Dromag67
August 26th, 2006, 02:34 AM
This whole thing they've had since RDA left of never mentioning the past eight seasons, as though they don't exist, is insulting.

Albion :)


I'm just thankful they mentioned them at all.

KoshNaranek
August 26th, 2006, 02:56 AM
In the past 10 years, we havent seen how the ancients fight. Everything keeps leading up to "the ancients this", or "the ancients that". For crying out loud, just hurry up and do something.

we've seen enough of how the ancients fight against the wraith, i.e. pretty crap...

Farscapefan
August 26th, 2006, 03:04 AM
No ghosts from the past please. I'm not familiar at all with the seasons prior to season 9 and for me this would be extremely confusing.

Platschu
August 26th, 2006, 03:08 AM
For the protecting of the writer: I think the beaming technology is a good and modern way to finish stories with bigger dramatic mood on space ships. They used earlier ring platforms (2x01), stolen cargo ships (5x01), stolen death gliders (6x03), escape pods (3x07, 5x16) or stargates (2x01, 9x16). The actions were in the earlier seasons on different planets, there weren't so many ships, but now some stories played completly in space. So I think the using of beaming technology is a better and quicker way than the running for gliders to fly out. You should watch the season, because I think it will change after the events of "Bounty"

The Signal
August 26th, 2006, 03:12 AM
I'd love him to go back to the show, but I doubt that he escaped, he's either been converted (unlikely) or killed. They are seeming to pretend he doesnt exist, so I'd be gobsmacked if he came back in. Anyone see the "200" full cast picture? Who can pick out Jonas? :rolleyes: Anyone with that pic on GW as their sig has had to add him in if they want him ffs

Im also surprised a planet like Hebridan would fall so quickly.

gkyun
August 26th, 2006, 03:18 AM
Just out of curiosity why don't TPTB want to mention Jonas again?

smurf
August 26th, 2006, 03:42 AM
Just out of curiosity why don't TPTB want to mention Jonas again?
Because Jonas Quinn does not exist **Jedi mind trick** This is not the character you are looking for...

There doesn't seem to be a reason why TPTB can't even mention his name on the show.
As to why we won't see the character again... well, nobody knows (although there is plenty of speculation), because no one involved has really spoken on the issue. The only thing I've read from someone who was there at the time was Corin saying it was political.

smurf
August 26th, 2006, 03:46 AM
No ghosts from the past please. I'm not familiar at all with the seasons prior to season 9 and for me this would be extremely confusing.
Of course, whatever you want. :rolleyes:
No wonder the show lost so many viewers if there is this insistance on only doing what makes one portion of the fandom happy.

Mirel
August 26th, 2006, 03:47 AM
Could it have to do with Corin Nemec's devotion to Scientology? Just like with Isaac Hayes and the South Park issue?

tommiekins
August 26th, 2006, 03:51 AM
I would like to see Jonas again. Although if he wasn't mentioned in counterstrike, I suspect he didn't survive.

smurf
August 26th, 2006, 03:54 AM
Could it have to do with Corin Nemec's devotion to Scientology? Just like with Isaac Hayes and the South Park issue?
Doubtful.
It's not as if there was a big Scientology skit in one of the episodes, & he hasn't been seen jumping on TV sofas, raging about post-natal depression drugs, and fathering a child with an actress who started to look worryingly vacant... to my knowledge. :D

The Signal
August 26th, 2006, 04:09 AM
Could it have to do with Corin Nemec's devotion to Scientology? Just like with Isaac Hayes and the South Park issue?
Isaac Hayes left South Park because the makers of the show were taking the piss out of it, and he decided that he didnt want to be working with them.

I doubt it would have anything to do with his scientology. Perhaps they think everyone hates Jonas, hey they think everyone loves Vala so who knows :P

Out of interst, when was the last time he was mentioned? Citizen Joe?

Seastallion
August 26th, 2006, 04:17 AM
Im also surprised a planet like Hebridan would fall so quickly.

Well, it isn't really THAT suprising. Hebridan was very advanced, yes, but they weren't by any stretch of the imagination in the same league as the Ancients or the Ori. If the Asgard weapons had no effect on the Ori ships, Hebridan wouldn't fare any better. It might've taken longer to conquer the planet, but ultimately not much less difficult. It would be more like what you would call a 'target rich environment' more than a 'challenge'. Well, that is yet one more of the few worlds with technologically advanced humans that Earth has encountered, that is sent back to the stone age. Or depending on how much the Ori force them to let go of their technology. Given that many of their regular citizens had ships of their own, it is possible that many of them managed to escape. Of course, I'd be far more concerned for the Sarrakins than the humans on Hebridan. Would they be singled out for death (along with the half-human ones)? Or would the Ori simply attempt to convert them as well? I'm not even certain the Ori care about any other species except for humans. ???

As for Jonas... :( He's either dead, or at least under the thumb of the Ori like everyone else on his planet. He might 'play along' assuming he survived, but I don't think he'd really convert either, given what he knows. Man, Earth's allies just keep getting KO'd. Seem's like all of Earth's allies are dead, dying, useless, or ambivalent. *whew*

System Lord Anubis
August 26th, 2006, 04:21 AM
Be funny if the Serrakin started a movement against the Ori, seeing how advanced they were. I agree, if Hebridan fell it's unfortunate that it happened.

I do hope we do see Jonas again, at least before the series goes off. Stupid Sci-Fi...

tommiekins
August 26th, 2006, 04:32 AM
Well, it isn't really THAT suprising. Hebridan was very advanced, yes, but they weren't by any stretch of the imagination in the same league as the Ancients or the Ori. If the Asgard weapons had no effect on the Ori ships, Hebridan wouldn't fare any better. It might've taken longer to conquer the planet, but ultimately not much less difficult. It would be more like what you would call a 'target rich environment' more than a 'challenge'. Well, that is yet one more of the few worlds with technologically advanced humans that Earth has encountered, that is sent back to the stone age. Or depending on how much the Ori force them to let go of their technology. Given that many of their regular citizens had ships of their own, it is possible that many of them managed to escape. Of course, I'd be far more concerned for the Sarrakins than the humans on Hebridan. Would they be singled out for death (along with the half-human ones)? Or would the Ori simply attempt to convert them as well? I'm not even certain the Ori care about any other species except for humans. ???

As for Jonas... :( He's either dead, or at least under the thumb of the Ori like everyone else on his planet. He might 'play along' assuming he survived, but I don't think he'd really convert either, given what he knows. Man, Earth's allies just keep getting KO'd. Seem's like all of Earth's allies are dead, dying, useless, or ambivalent. *whew*

I know, we're not going to have anyone left in a while, they're all disappearing. I think the only ones we might be able to rely on not being destroyed are the Nox, seeing as they might not find them. But eventually its just going to be our little planet, sat in its own little corner of the galaxy facing off against at least two Ori ships, more if they get another supergate going, with the Odyssey, maybe the Daedalus, and a few F302's! eek.

(by the way I didn't see counterstrike, so I don't know what happened with that ori ship)

Jonas could be pretending, biding his time until he gets a chance to escape to Earth. Here's hoping anyway.

NikonUser
August 26th, 2006, 04:35 AM
I don't have the brain capacity to commit all the inhabited worlds in the Stargate Universe so I had to turn to the Wiki-Stargate page to refresh my memory; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_civilizations_in_Stargate_SG-1#Hebridans

So, Jonas's planet and the planet of humans/Serrakin's homeworld's have fallen to the Ori. I'm hoping that this only means that the governments have agreed to embrace 'Origin' rather than being laid to waste. Also, I think it would be very cool to have Jonas return (escape) to the SGC. But anyway, I have to agree with the comment made last night from the Jafa leader that said something about Earth always escaping harm from the enemies. Especially since we seem to be the only planet which hides the presence of other worlds existence from its population.

As for why there seems to be an absence of acknowleding Jonas in any episodes after he left, I always found that a bit sad. I would love to know why there seems to be bad blood between CN and the Stargate producers. Perhaps he was hard to work with, or felt betrayed that he had to leave when Shanks decided to come back. I always thought Jonas was a great character for Stargate.

It might even be cool to have Jonas find his way to Atlantis...

smurf
August 26th, 2006, 04:40 AM
Out of interst, when was the last time he was mentioned? Citizen Joe?
By name; Fallout, I think. (Or the season 7 clipshow, if that came after)
By implication; Citizen Joe.

ETA: Whoops, it was Citizen Joe. (Thanks Naonak :))
In mitigation I've never watched Citizen Joe again, because I dislike that line and loathe Sam's (non) reaction to it - kinda turns Sam and Jonas' friendship into a complete falsehold.
But that's off topic. And that's all I have to add y'honor.

The Engineer
August 26th, 2006, 04:46 AM
10 out of 10!
THIS is my 200th episode.

ValaMalduran
August 26th, 2006, 05:28 AM
Great episode with a moment for every character. :D

A.

AutumnDream
August 26th, 2006, 05:41 AM
If there was bad blood because of him being booted for MS's return, why would he have returned for another episode? I actually do think there's something weird going on, but I don't think it's that. I remember in the "Ask Mallozzi" thread, someone asked something about Vala and Jonas, and Mallozzi said something snarky and sarcastic clearly implying that "they" didn't like him. But he quickly covered it up when someone asked what he meant.

It does almost seem like direct mockery or blatant disrespect/disregard for the character to have mentioned something so big regarding his homeworld, and have none of the characters mention him or wonder about him. Why mention the planet at all if you don't want to mention Jonas? It honestly seemed like an intentional bit of animosity. Not to jump to conclusions, here - but geez. If you can't respect the actor, at least respect the character.

The Signal
August 26th, 2006, 05:56 AM
Im certain that he's dead, he would fight to the finish but he wouldnt last long, I cant see CN coming back at all, such a shame, he and Jonas deserved better treatment from TPTB :(

Naonak
August 26th, 2006, 06:16 AM
By name; Fallout, I think. (Or the season 7 clipshow, if that came after)
By implication; Citizen Joe.

No, he was actually mentioned by name in Citizen Joe - something along the lines of "Not that Jonas was a bad guy, but you [Daniel] belong with with SG-1." (Joe)

valaCB
August 26th, 2006, 06:20 AM
Be nice to see him again as i liked Jonas.
I really want to see him. miss him :(

Watt
August 26th, 2006, 06:28 AM
Mmm mediocre (is that how you spell it?> :p)
Daniel and Vala's so called bonding moment about shari was pretty lame. Hello!! maybe Daniel you should tell Vala that tealc shot and killed Shari instead of knocking her out and why are you still on the same team with the guy that killed your wifes body (host)?. yes I know it was a gould infected host body of Shari but still what a bombshell to drop.
I would have like to see the reaction to that little gem but it was seriously glossed over. I've had better bonding moments picking up babes at parties yeesh.
All up this was a setup episode for future plots to unfold such as adria revelaed her weakness with the stone protecting her and that they had a use for Daniel probably referenced in spoilers. In the end this is going to come down to between Mother and Daughter and it doesn't take a genius to work that out.
Teal is either the worst shot in the universe or simply didn't want to kill anyone, whats with blowing holes in the floor in the firefight? If you look he was firing into the floor on the crossover.
I know it's a little too late for writer requests but I sure wish that they would include Vala getting some USAF training it seems to me she simply glided into her spot without any effort and STILL seeing her with a P90 makes me wince.
I wish when I got my clearance and such that I had a general to make a call on my behalf and then pass a basic psych test so then I could go waving my P90 or M14 around. I could also get to go offworld and go running around on my own as well.
I mean the babe got issued a zat once and next she has a P90 and in a few Ep's she's going to be a full blown member of SG1... Sarcasm here............<<<<< Wow I wish things were that easy.
The last second beamouts are getting lame, I dunno, one should be ingenious and work out a different way to do things.
Bratac comment about Vala being a wise warrior? in the end made me snort coffee through my nose. I got a lot of time for old man Bratac but this is probably one of the lamest and most pathetic lines I have ever seen him speak.
I fail to see the mother reference by Daniel and given that Vala has only spent like 5 minutes in total with her daughter but as I'm a guy thats hardy suprising.
I would have liked to see Sam do more investigation of the Ori ship instead of fooling about with the shields but time was short and she did feel as if her touching something activated them.
Mitchell didn't do much of anything except what he was required to do, plant the explosives have a interesting firefight and that was about that.
All up 5/10.
Oh I forgot Adria. Insanely beautiful, insanely fanatical and just plain pure insane. Sounds like my ex wife..:)

Major_Griff
August 26th, 2006, 06:36 AM
If they're not going to mention Jonas why mention Langara at all. And who do you think gave Sam the intell that they'd fallen, certainly not Dean Stockwell or any of the d-bags running their government. It would have to have been Jonas. There's no one else on that planet would that would risk contacting Earth.

Major_Griff
August 26th, 2006, 06:46 AM
I said this in another thread but who else on that planet would have risked contacting Earth besides Jonas? All of their leaders are idiots who probably accepted Origin with open arms. I think Jonas is still alive and either in hiding or starting a rebellion.

Maxum
August 26th, 2006, 06:57 AM
With regard to the Jonas situation. Sam did mention that "they had not heard from any of their allies yet." I know that some you wish she had said Jonas specifically, but at least she didn't say everyone was killed.

I'll tell you if the last few episodes for this half of the season were like last night's episode and like the episodes I have scene thus far, I will be glued to the set come January. (Who am I kidding? I'm glued to any episode of SG-1.) I'm just thrilled that the writing and the pacing of the show is stepping up nicely. It's not just blowing things up and joking around. There is real danger and poignancy in their discussions.

Farscapefan
August 26th, 2006, 07:01 AM
Really great episode. Love Brata'c's comment about Vala very much :) Especially that he's right.

ablevins425
August 26th, 2006, 07:06 AM
I need some help. I was going to catch the second showing of Counterstrike last night, because I had to work, but came home to no power. I was really looking forward to this episode, so can someone give me a summary. I don't care about spoilers, I want someone to ruin it for me. So if someone could do this it would be great! Thanks all!!

FallenAngelII
August 26th, 2006, 07:19 AM
I think they said that they're never ever ever going to bring Jonas back. So the most we can hope for is to hear news of his demise in passing.

The Signal
August 26th, 2006, 07:23 AM
^You have a point there actually, maybe mthere is a little hope, and since we heard of Warrick's homeworld too, maybe there is hope for him as well :)

FallenAngelII
August 26th, 2006, 07:25 AM
The PTB have already answered the question whether Jonas Quinn/Corin Nemec would ever appear on Stargate ever again:

NO!

Watt
August 26th, 2006, 07:25 AM
Really great episode. Love Brata'c's comment about Vala very much :) Especially that he's right.

Still can taste that coffee up me nose farscapefan :p lol
:S :)

GateLadyM
August 26th, 2006, 07:37 AM
I thoroughly enjoyed this episode, especially the dialogue between characters. Don't have much time to elaborate, but I love the way the writers can have these people talk to each other intelligently, and still have an exciting scifi plot. Adria was cool as well. Morena did a great job!

RedGuard
August 26th, 2006, 07:39 AM
Atleast we now know what happened to some of our allies. I was hoping we would see them again. If they still exist, maybe we can in later episodes. Otherwise, the episode was great. This is an episode the "anti-season 10" crowd could love. It doesn't get anymore Stargate then this. Also things are getting desperate now that the old ways of deaing with the enemy no longer work.

edit: fix error

Fabiano
August 26th, 2006, 08:00 AM
Jonas Go to Atlantis next season......

immhotep
August 26th, 2006, 08:10 AM
This episode was truely a turning point!
It was brilliant, the Ori getting thier asses kicked, Then the jaffa...finally writers with some balls, things are getting shook up and i love it...
Vala, this is by far her best episode to date, i think she has real potential in the mothering department, if a little nieve.
Danny boy...could have came up with a nice speach to adrai but didnt, i hope his facial expressions put the chill right up adria spine :D
Personal shield, control chairs, power sources, weapons, Genetic code locks..WOW explosion on the technolgoy of the ori in this one...the techies ( me included!) are going to have a field day

Politics, action, emotion, great writing, great special effects, moralrality of war..god this episode was as good as reckoning! no wait cant be but it was brilliant..
only shame that the hebridans have fallen to the ori :( there goes my hope of a cool new ally to come help out...earth is really up agianst a wall all alone now! cept the asgard :Dwe cant lsoe them..please dont let us lose them!

How fit is adria! ;) cant wait to see her again!

MediaSavant
August 26th, 2006, 08:15 AM
It was definitely better than average in terms of pacing, importance to the overall storyline, and character interaction. But, on a plot level, more than the "convenient beaming" bothered me. If Adria was able to (1) detect Mitchell's self-destruct effort in another part of the ship and stop it, and (2) fly the ship with almost no effort at all, including fire its weapons with amazing accuracy, how come she wasn't aware of what Sam was doing and stop her from taking down the shields?

The set her up as "all knowing" and "all powerful", and, then, showed that there was some activity that could slip past her amazing awareness with no explanation. One would also think this is something the characters would explore given it was a weakness.

kymeric
August 26th, 2006, 08:43 AM
- A dell laptop apparently able to interface with an Ori ship (technology they've never encountered before).

Like there is any difference between Ancient technology and Ori technology. They even have a command chair like the Alterrans. Theyve interfaced with enough alien technology before and it took at least 10 min TV time for her to figure it out, not that she ever did completely.

Im more curious if Ori are only interested in humans on heberdan, or if all of the serrakin r dead.

keshou
August 26th, 2006, 08:57 AM
Overall this was a better episode than many in S10 (and most of S9). Not as good as Pegasus Project, though.

Things I liked:
*Adria. As much as I dislike the whole contrivance of her birth and magical aging abilities, I think she adds a much-needed personal involvement to the threat of the Ori. I have to admit that I thought Morena was the weakest actor in the talented Firefly cast, but she did a pretty good job with this role.

*Vala. I like THIS Vala. And I like THIS Vala and Daniel together. Moving towards mutual understanding and some depth to their interactions without all the eye-rolling from Daniel when Vala annoys him. And it's nice to see a shoutout to Daniel's past with Sha're. I love these characters because I've been with them thru all their traumas and triumphs. When the characters forget about their past.....well they tend to become less "real" to me. So I like these little reminders.

*Teal'c. Teal'cs little speech at the beginning......about winning without honor was moving. I liked him throughout this episode and it must be very disheartening to have his brothers, who once looked upon him as a leader of their cause, turn against him.

*Sam. Sam was kickbut when she saved Mitchell and Teal'c.:)

*Team. Even though they were separated they were all working together towards a common goal (much like in Reckoning) so it really felt like a "team" episode.

*At least they blocked the convenient "beamout" for a little while. :)

*Special effects and sets. The Ori ships are growing on me and I do like all the interior shots. The shot of the Ori ship destroying the Dakara weapon was well-done.

Things I thought were so..so:
* Pacing. I don't know...for a BIG episode it still seemed a little slow and plodding at times. And some of the "moments" should have been bigger than they were.....I thought the Adria/Daniel "talk" was a little flat.

*Sam and Mitchell seem to have no real personal connection to the Ori storyline. Oh, they're interested in saving Earth and the Galaxy, but otherwise they're not personally involved to the extent that Daniel, Vala and now Teal'c (since Chu'lak and now Dakara have been hit) have become. Maybe Mitchell's grandmother and Jack need to be kidnapped by the Ori or something. ;)

*Adria's powers seem to be rather convenient for whatever plot development they need. Whether it's finding out the location of Dakara or flying the ship. And then - as MS said above - she can't see that the shields are being lowered. But minor nitpick.

I enjoyed it....I think the Ori storyline (which isn't one of my favorites) is becoming a little more interesting with the addition of Adria. And I'm curious to see the episodes that deal with the Adria/Daniel interaction that was foreshadowed in this episode.

Rating: 7.5/10

PS: In that last dramatic scene, I was totally distracted... by Claudia's hair of all things - when she turned her head sideways, I was like..."wow she has GREAT hair!" ;) :D

the fifth man
August 26th, 2006, 09:11 AM
After watching this episode again last night, I like it even more. IMO, Season 10 has been great so far, and this was one of it's finest episodes. "Counterstrike" definitely gets a 10/10 from me. I can't wait to see more of Adria.

Elwe Singollo
August 26th, 2006, 09:14 AM
I think im annoyed beyond annoyance.

Lord Shiva
August 26th, 2006, 09:17 AM
I need to re-watch Counterstrike... was working on something while it was on so I didn't concentrate 100% on it, but what I saw was awesome. I didn't "get" what happened to the planet at first, but it dawned on me before I was told... I put 2 and 2 together and was like "Oh, man... the Ori didn't zap the planet... that was the Jaffa!!!"

Well, they got theirs lol

btw, did anyone else notice in season 1 of Stargate all the Jaffa were these beefy huge guys, and as the series progressed we've moved into seeing lots of smaller Jaffa who look like they couldn't carry a stack of books back to the Takaran library? That leader guy was so scrawny, I had a hard time imagining him being a Jaffa warrior! lol

Anyway, loved the episode, loved Adira, loved seeing the Hataks go boom... not happy with Sci Fi and their poppycock with cancelation. It's time they get their heads out of their butts and pick the show up again.

the fifth man
August 26th, 2006, 09:17 AM
He's dead Jim.

LOL!:) Sad, but probably true. I'm sure he didn't go out easily though.

the fifth man
August 26th, 2006, 09:19 AM
Anyway, loved the episode, loved Adira, loved seeing the Hataks go boom... not happy with Sci Fi and their poppycock with cancelation. It's time they get their heads out of their butts and pick the show up again.

I think the problem is that they can't. Their heads are wedged too far up their butts to get them out.;)

DysfunctionalVeteran
August 26th, 2006, 09:21 AM
Highlight everything below to read the text:


Some really "Nazi-ish" Jaffa use the Ancient weapon on Dakara to kill all the people on a planet that went Ori.

Everyone dies except "The B!tch". (Vala's daughter)

The Jaffa and SG1 both try to steal the now empty Ori ship.

Vala's daughter has other plans.

She flys it to Dakara and while the Jaffa keep trying to zap her with the weapon, she blasts it into smithereens.

Meanwhile SG1 gets beamed out just in time.

FallenAngelII
August 26th, 2006, 09:26 AM
I'm obliged to agree that the convenient Asgard beam was used way too much in this episode. Twice were they beamed out just seconds before the Dakara weapon would've killed them. Which is two times too many.

I wouldn't have minded it if they'd been beamed out 5 times as long as it hadn't been in the knick of time.

Other than that, this episode was brilliant. I feared that after "200" and "The Real World", both shows would follow up with mediocre episodes, but was pleasantly surprised.

Adria's grown-up version intrigues me. There may be hope for her still. I doubt she'll do a 180 and help us, but maybe in the end, when she's taking her last breaths, she might extend a hand to help us somehow.

And I like the whole "We have plans for Daniel". It's obviously foreshadowing for "The Shroud". Now the question remains how and why they turned him and why he'd agree to it. Maybe he didn't. Maybe he did. Maybe it's a covert plan. And he has to go missing in order to become a Prior, so we might see an episode or two where he's not present >_<'.

the fifth man
August 26th, 2006, 09:28 AM
The whole beaming thing doesn't bother me at all. If you have the technology, you're going to use it. That's just the way it is. People may not like it, but this isn't going to change.

USMCgrunt
August 26th, 2006, 09:32 AM
I have said it before and I will say it again. Parker Lewis just cant lose. He is alive somewhere planning a counterstike against the Ori.

BubblingOverWithIdeas
August 26th, 2006, 09:33 AM
Bad Science Alert!

After the superweapon washed over the planet, there were still clothes lying around! And some kind of hangings made of cloth! And picked fruit in a fruit stall! All those things are ORGANIC and should have been disintegrated! There is NO WAY the wave could have "told the difference" between living and dead organic matter! The constituents are identical! This makes me really annoyed.

the fifth man
August 26th, 2006, 09:34 AM
The PTB have already answered the question whether Jonas Quinn/Corin Nemec would ever appear on Stargate ever again:

NO!

And with what they mentioned last night, I think that about seals the deal. Unfortunately, I think Jonas went down fighting.

Admiral Mappalazarou
August 26th, 2006, 09:44 AM
I like Adria. I think that her character devolopment with Vala showed definate good guy/bad guy potential. The Jaffa are STOOPID - Why do they always elect bad guys to lead them? WHHHY!?
Adria said that the Ori have plans for DanielObviously a reference to turning him into a prior in a future episode.I can see why she has taken a great interest in him though, he has ascended....twice.

Vala appears to have only limited control over her daughter, which only seems right really considering that's the same with all parents everywhere.
It's a shame that Dakara got shafted, I liked that world...:(

FallenAngelII
August 26th, 2006, 09:51 AM
Let's just all agree on that Jonas is dead and went down fighting! He died a true heroes death and he had cute and sexy hair at the end!

the fifth man
August 26th, 2006, 09:55 AM
Let's just all agree on that Jonas is dead and went down fighting! He died a true heroes death and he had cute and sexy hair at the end!

Some will never be able to accept his demise. I say let them hold on to their hope. Afterall, we don't know for sure. Personally, I just think it's pretty unlikely that he survived his planet falling into Ori hands.

Starxgate
August 26th, 2006, 09:57 AM
And with what they mentioned last night, I think that about seals the deal. Unfortunately, I think Jonas went down fighting.

I would not be surprised if the next episode starts with SG-1 returning from visiting Jonas Planet to see whats up after not hearing from Jonas & through them we find out he went down fighting

SGalisa
August 26th, 2006, 09:58 AM
that was *good* casting on SG's part. I didn't think there might be that strong of a resemblance between Vala and Adria, but there is! ... maybe it's their hair styles... :p

Still not clear how limited Adria's powers are just yet, but why would it be a problem when more Ori ships come into the galaxy? She can't be everywhere at once, but what agenda are the Ori going after? her *Orici* status or their version of what supreme theology should be?

the fifth man
August 26th, 2006, 09:59 AM
I would not be surprised if the next episode starts with SG-1 returning from visiting Jonas Planet to see whats up after not hearing from Jonas & through them we find out he went down fighting

Not that I'd mind that happening, but I just wouldn't count on it. I think this was TPTB's way of putting the Jonas thing to rest, whether we like it or not.

FallenAngelII
August 26th, 2006, 10:02 AM
Bad Science Alert!

After the superweapon washed over the planet, there were still clothes lying around! And some kind of hangings made of cloth! And picked fruit in a fruit stall! All those things are ORGANIC and should have been disintegrated! There is NO WAY the wave could have "told the difference" between living and dead organic matter! The constituents are identical! This makes me really annoyed.

Yes it can. It's Ancient. You think the people who created flying cities can't create a weapon that distinguishes between living and dead tissue? Living cells act different from dead cells.

OSUIvan
August 26th, 2006, 10:13 AM
No ghosts from the past please. I'm not familiar at all with the seasons prior to season 9 and for me this would be extremely confusing.


So since you havent seen any shows pre season 9 they shouldnt bring him up? hrmmmm yea sure ok.

BubblingOverWithIdeas
August 26th, 2006, 10:17 AM
Yes it can. It's Ancient. You think the people who created flying cities can't create a weapon that distinguishes between living and dead tissue? Living cells act different from dead cells.

The only way it can work like that is if it disintegrates anything with 'life-force', the same thing the Wraith feed on. But what, I ask you, is the point of making it not affect non-living organic tissue? There's nothing to be gained by leaving cloth, picked fruit, and animal skins behind. The useful stuff that you'd want to salvage from an enemy, i.e. computers and weapons, is inorganic and wouldn't be affected either way. It's also inconsistent with the previous description of how the weapon "washes away everything on a planet's surface".

I'd like to add I'm pro-continuation of the series. This is the first thing that's really gotten on my nerves.

immhotep
August 26th, 2006, 10:19 AM
my real bug with this episode is that they closed off two really exciting potential storylines ofr absolutly no reason "hebridan and langara have fallen to the ori!"
Excuse me just drop that bomshell in to the wreckage of the previous 2 seasons why dont you! the main subplot of the last few seasons, the jaffa, the hebridans and the kelownans ( Jonas's people) all gone in one episode...just slap some C4 on the anubis Saga why dont you! *shocked look*

I loved the episode but its reset the chess board majorly. We're back to anubis S5 and his band of kull warriors...hu-hum, I mean adria and the priors!

Cameron Mitchel
August 26th, 2006, 10:19 AM
Could someone post up some high quality screencaps from Counterstrike, such as those taken by, uh, ~cough~ Xanderic. Especially some fromt he bridge, the powersource, etc.

Major_Griff
August 26th, 2006, 10:38 AM
If they're not going to mention Jonas why mention Langara at all. And who do you think gave Sam the intell that they'd fallen, certainly not Dean Stockwell or any of the d-bags running their government. It would have to have been Jonas. There's no one else on that planet would that would risk contacting Earth.


Sorry to requote myself bu I just rewatched Counterstrike and Sam says they haven't heard from anyone on Langara, so I was wrong.

Starxgate
August 26th, 2006, 10:40 AM
It is to bad TPTB hate Jonas He could have taken Daniels place again while Daniel is a Prior. Theres an SG-1 spot open. But this is a good way to bring in Jack in Daniels place & since Jack will be in The Shroud who knows what will happen after that. Jack can be a part time SG-1 Member until they get Daniel back. If Jonas cant replace Daniel then Jack is the next best thing

Dave C
August 26th, 2006, 10:41 AM
This may have been written when planning for a S11 at the time but now we just don't know

ToasterOnFire
August 26th, 2006, 10:43 AM
Meh, this is science fiction we're talking about here. A character isn't dead unless you actually see them die. And sometimes they even come back from that. :D

Though I think external circumstances are at play here, so no more Jonas on Stargate. But I do think it was a cheap blow from TPTB to mention Langara and not mention him. Come on! Why talk about the planet at all then? :mckay:

FallenAngelII
August 26th, 2006, 10:47 AM
The only way it can work like that is if it disintegrates anything with 'life-force', the same thing the Wraith feed on. But what, I ask you, is the point of making it not affect non-living organic tissue? There's nothing to be gained by leaving cloth, picked fruit, and animal skins behind. The useful stuff that you'd want to salvage from an enemy, i.e. computers and weapons, is inorganic and wouldn't be affected either way. It's also inconsistent with the previous description of how the weapon "washes away everything on a planet's surface".

Don't question the will of the Ancients!

Bragi
August 26th, 2006, 10:52 AM
Corin Nemec has said he won't be appearing in season ten.

So forget about seeing Jonas again.

As for TPTB pretending he doesn't exist. . . they shot one of his scripts in the seventh season, after he'd already been sacked. That's pretty generous.

Sauron18
August 26th, 2006, 10:53 AM
I loved the Ori in this episode

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a201/Sauron18/CS.jpg

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a201/Sauron18/CS1.jpg

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a201/Sauron18/CS2.jpg

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a201/Sauron18/CS3.jpg


(Credit to tehshroom)

the fifth man
August 26th, 2006, 12:30 PM
I loved the Ori in this episode

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a201/Sauron18/CS.jpg

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a201/Sauron18/CS1.jpg

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a201/Sauron18/CS2.jpg

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a201/Sauron18/CS3.jpg


(Credit to tehshroom)

With Adria as the leader of this invasion force, things are only going to get better IMO. Or worse, for SG-1, that is.;) This ep really set the tone IMO for what is still to come.

the fifth man
August 26th, 2006, 12:39 PM
Meh, this is science fiction we're talking about here. A character isn't dead unless you actually see them die. And sometimes they even come back from that. :D

Though I think external circumstances are at play here, so no more Jonas on Stargate. But I do think it was a cheap blow from TPTB to mention Langara and not mention him. Come on! Why talk about the planet at all then? :mckay:

Indeed! In sci-fi, it's very hard to keep someone dead.:)

I guess they should have mentioned him by name. But, they could have never mentioned anything at all about his world for the rest of this show as well.

Ltcolshepjumper
August 26th, 2006, 12:47 PM
I think Jonas died. I think they mentioned Langara just to make sure they never had to bring Corin nemec back.:sheppard:

LaCroix
August 26th, 2006, 12:48 PM
Corin Nemec has said he won't be appearing in season ten.

So forget about seeing Jonas again.

As for TPTB pretending he doesn't exist. . . they shot one of his scripts in the seventh season, after he'd already been sacked. That's pretty generous.


I think the reasons why TPTB were generous with the script was maybe he (CN) had a seperate contract drawn during S6 for that. It's kind of hard for them to get out of that one.

But I still see it as a dismissal of someone who played a part in the history of
the SGC.

the fifth man
August 26th, 2006, 12:50 PM
I think the reasons why TPTB were generous with the script was maybe he (CN) had a seperate contract drawn during S6 for that. It's kind of hard for them to get out of that one.

But I still see it as a dismissal of someone who played a part in the history of
the SGC.

I just think there's a lot that went on between TPTB and CN that we do not know about. That's why they don't even mention him.

Starxgate
August 26th, 2006, 12:59 PM
I feel that they should not have mentioned that planet at all. While it sucsk he left he did have a good character ending being welcomed back home & in the government to help decide things. But now all the fans are wondering about him. The TPTB screwed up in terms of Jonas. Were they underestimating the fans hoping they would not recognize the planet when Carter said its name ?

NowIWillDestroyAbydos
August 26th, 2006, 01:00 PM
He has to come back, I wonder if CN & RDA have become more interested in coming back to SG-1 since the is Cancelled. Have any of you seen my sig blasting Martin Gero for his comments about Jonas at Vancouver Con 2006 (it's located at my Sig Blog).

the fifth man
August 26th, 2006, 01:01 PM
The TPTB screwed up in terms of Jonas. Were they underestimating the fans hoping they would not recognize the planet when Carter said its name ?

No, they knew what they were doing. They just wanted to close a door, whether people like how they did it or not.

NowIWillDestroyAbydos
August 26th, 2006, 01:06 PM
As for TPTB pretending he doesn't exist. . . they shot one of his scripts in the seventh season, after he'd already been sacked. That's pretty generous.
No they didn't, CN did write the Story for Fallout, don't believe me, look at GW's episode guide for Fallout (http://www.gateworld.net/sg1/s7/714.shtml).

memnarch
August 26th, 2006, 01:09 PM
At Comic Con, Joe Mallozzi said that there were currently no plans to bring Jonas back, and he and Paul Mullie wrote Counterstrike, so the Langara mention may have been a tip of the hat to the fans in some way.

That being said, if there is a tv movie or miniseries or whatever, it's highly possible that tptb will want to bring "everyone" back, ala Farscape: PK wars. They'd probably bring General Hammond, possibly Doc Fraiser at least.

golfbooy
August 26th, 2006, 01:14 PM
Well, it seems that most people here thought that the episode was good. I guess that says something. However, there doesn't seem to be too many people talking about it. I guess that says something else, maybe?

Anyway, my thoughts aren't nearly as glowing as some of the others posted here, but that's usually par for the course these days. I think it's only fair of me to point out from the beginning that I have become increasingly less and less of a fan of Joe Mallozzi's scripts over the past couple of years. It's quite possible that his recent bad track record has left an indellible stain on all of his future efforts, at least as far as I'm concerned. That said, I'm more than a little relieved after getting to see Counterstrike. Usually, I come away from Mallozzi episodes believing that he's done quantifiable harm to the characters. This time out, though, I feel he at least stuck to the Hippocratic Oath to the best of his ability. I don't think any of the leads suffered or got shafted here. Really, I don't. So that's a small victory.

That victory is tainted, however, by the fact that the entire race of Jaffa took an unwarranted hit. Honestly, there was no call to portray the Jaffa as a stupid, moronic, and unthinking people. While not supremely technologically advanced, and perhaps sometimes shown as inexperienced in galactic affairs, they are not an unfeeling or intractible race. By and large, the Jaffa are not a people who are so bent on ascending in stature and achievement that they'll unilaterally eradicate millions of people in the name of victory. In fact, in Endgame (written of course by Joe Mallozzi), the Jaffa were decidedly on the other end of that situation. I don't believe that it was Joe Mallozzi's intention to portray the Jaffa as bigots and hypocrites. But he did. And he did it in glorious fashion. It's a mistake, made from hurrying scripts along and not taking the time to carefully write a scenario where every entity in the story acts in character. Very disappointing. If this was the story that had to be told, if someone had to be the one to pull the trigger and commit mass genocide in the name of preservation or victory, the writers should have created another race to do it. Make them well-intentioned and mostly "good", albeit ruthless and often cold and unfeeling. That can't be too hard, right? Oh, wait, the writers already do have such a race at their disposal. In fact, this mysterious race of beings used to appear in quite a few episodes way back in the days of Old Stargate. Yep, you clever SG-1 fans guessed it. Why in God's name didn't the writers trot out the old Tok'ra card? Seriously, fans would go nuts. People would have loved it. Or, even better, why wasn't it Ba'al? We've seen him infiltrate the SGC and the NID, and we've seen him brainwash members of the Jaffa High Council. In fact, Se'tak was acting just as if he'd been brainwashed by Ba'al. Turning the Jaffa into a sneaky, underhanded, dishonorable race is completely out of left field and runs contrary to everything in the show's history. Bad form, Joe.

Counterstrike was, however, successful in continuing the SG-1 tradition of what I've dubbed "fun on a mothership". Generally, if you take the team and place them aboard any sundry alien vessel, then the episode's chance for being good is exponentially increased. I feel that held true here as well, as the design and feel of the Ori motherships is growing on me. A few more shots of the team walking the halls and I'm sure to grow to love it. Notable exceptions to "fun on a mothership" for me are Wraith hive ships (what the hell is that?) and, of course, our own tugboats. The crowded bridge of the Odyssey and the claustrophobic atmosphere of its corridors has never appealed to me, and the fact that it houses that blasted beaming technology does it no favors either. Still, the Ori mothership and SG-1's "fun" on board it during this episode worked.

But speaking of that blasted beaming technology, what the hell? Understand that as I sit here typing about it there's a stream of expletives and exclamations akin to one of Daffy Duck's diatribes running through my head. Seriously, no more. Take it away. Especially take it away from Joe Mallozzi. Right now it feels like I'm just bagging on the guy, but damn if it isn't deserved. Ex Deus Machina, The Scourge, Camelot, and now this one all heavily, heavily rely on crap-ass beam outs and silly timing coincideces dependent thereon to create "tension" or "drama". The writers used to be rather proficient at NOT using this silly plot device to make their stories work. Our heroes had to rely upon themselves and their own wits to get out of jams. Wouldn't a return to that fashion of denouement be welcome? A relief? A thrill?

And this brings me to my biggest complaint with Counterstrike (that's right, I've got a bigger one). There were far, far too many characters in Counterstrike to adequately service any of them. And instead of focusing on just a couple of them (to the detriment of others), everyone kind of got similarly ignored, resulting in the empty feeling Keshou mentioned above. For all that happened in Counterstrike, no one seemed to get much screentime in relation to it. Aside from the four five now six regular characters, this one also included considerable screentime for Se'tak, Bra'tac, Col. Emmerson, Adria, and Bor'el. There's no doubt that some emotional beats were clinically inserted to add some meaning to the events, but it struck me as just that--clinical. Effectively ending our alliance with the Jaffa, the destruction of Da'karra, Adria's and Vala's reunion, and the slaughter of thousands of people are all developments which demanded more than cursory outrage or exclamation. Something as little as a questioning "Tealc?" out of Bra'tac after Landry tells him that SG-1 was on the targeted planet would have been vastly superior to quickly moving on to the General's gruff "don't worry, they were beamed away just in the nick of time" lip service to the plot.

For all that, I still think that Counterstrike was a decent outing, and again want to comment that the show seems to have found its footing somewhat after the shaky season nine. The team at least feels more like a team, if not the family that it was for the first eight years. I particularly thought that the first act and final scene worked well. The story sort of loses it in the middle, as I felt that the characters were just given "busy work" to do. I did like the last briefing room scene, though.

As I said above, I don't feel like any of the characters got a whole lot of screentime or development here. And I have to think Teal'c got screwed over the most by this circumstance. This should have been a much bigger episode for Teal'c. The Jaffa, the people he worked for eight years to free from oppression just murdered thousands if not millions of people with a cavalier push of a button. Perhaps Teal'c could express his profound disappointment to another Jaffa? That aside, Chris Judge did great in the scene on the Odyssey's bridge. I'm always impressed that he is able to show Teal'c as literally having the entire weight of the Jaffa nation on his shoulders without descending into the depths of grim angst that plagues other characters.

Cameron was fine in this episode. There wasn't a whole lot for him to contribute here, but as someone else mentioned, he took that zat shot like a pro. For me, Mitchell is still just floating around in the stories, not adding anything at the best of times and savagely curtailing my enjoyment at others. Some have complained that he has no connection to the story, and I do sort of agree with that. But my bigger problem is that he doesn't seem to have a connection to the team either. He's just there. And I don't feel like Carter, Teal'c, or Daniel are really feeling the Mitchell love any more than I am. Vala's better inclusion into SG-1 and the stories in general just highlight how much Mitchell doesn't work. Meh.

As previously expressed, I have serious reservations about the space baby. That said, I will admit that the Vala/Adria stuff could have been much worse. Adria's talk of abandonment did much to add depth to the little demon spawn, and her singlemindedness is at least disturbing. Vala came across as appropriately freaked out by the whole situation, and her despair and sadness during the final scene was nicely acted by Claudia Black. I'll take more of that Vala, please. Honestly, the Vala/Adria stuff on the ship would have worked better for me if there had been some mention of Adria and the experience in one of the previous episodes this year. The infamously cut Carter/Vala scene from Morpheus probably would have worked to give Vala more depth than simply providing comedy relief for six consecutive episodes.

Holy crap, Daniel remembers he was married!! Just to show I can give credit when it's due, way to go Joe Mallozzi. Having Daniel discuss his dead Goa'uld wife with Vala was an endeavor that could have easily been botched, blown, and made into a hateful experience. It wasn't. I think the dialogue was carefully written, and I think that Daniel's understated recollection of that time in his life was brilliantly acted by Michael Shanks. For me, there was just enough feeling in those reminisces without it turning maudlin. I also found Daniel's interactions with Vala to be much more palatable in this episode. I hope this one starts a trend and the days of Daniel snarling and making exasperated faces at Vala are over. Both characters are better when that slapstick dynamic is left behind. All that goodness aside, I am quite concerned with the spoilers indicating that Daniel and Adria are destined to have some sort of trist or psuedo-romance. Yikes, run for the hills!

Carter, like everyone else, seemed to get very little out of Counterstrike. But I think what she did get to do was well put together. I think that Amanda Tapping did make the most out of the meager pickings. My favorite scene was, again, the final one in the briefing room. Her announcement that Langara and Hebridan have fallen to the Ori is certainly designed to pique the audience's interest, but what really stuck out for me was Sam supportively rubbing Teal'c's shoulder as he reflects on this massive loss. I need those teamy beats in order to enjoy an episode. For me, that's a big part of what SG-1 is about. Carter rescuing Teal'c and Cameron was quick, but that's how fights actually are. Find me one realistic engagement that allows for the extensively choreographed fight scenes featured heavily in Atlantis and I'll enlist right away. I thought it was neat that she grabbed the staff and used it, and I'm left wondering if the writers are planning on exploring the technology or including it in other episodes. As others have joked, the Dell product placement is wonderfully gratuitous. Find me a Dell laptop that can perform such wonders and I'll turn in my clunky, cheapo E-machines right now.

Sorry, but I still resent Gen. Landry's unnecessarily inflated role. There was no reason for him to go offworld, and there was certainly no reason to go alone. I wanted more from Sam, Teal'c, and Cameron. That means less from big, blustery Landry. And how about letting Master Bra'tac getting a word in edge-wise? I know Beau Bridges is the guy with the regular credit, but the audience has a much stronger connection to Bra'tac than they do with Hank. I can't believe they paid Tony Amendola to come up to Vancouver for this one.

Memento Mori is up next. Be afraid. Be very afraid.

the fifth man
August 26th, 2006, 01:18 PM
Memento Mori is up next. Be afraid. Be very afraid.

Geez, let's try and not be too judgemental before the ep even airs, shall we? I think the next ep has some potential actually.

golfbooy
August 26th, 2006, 01:28 PM
Geez, let's try and not be too judgemental before the ep even airs, shall we? I think the next ep has some potential actually.
Try not to worry so much about my misgivings. It's not as though they'll cancel the show just because I'm unhappy.

/reads recent news
Gasp!, my powers are incredible! I wonder what else I can make happen? Hmm.....

Cycrow
August 26th, 2006, 01:41 PM
- A dell laptop apparently able to interface with an Ori ship (technology they've never encountered before).

not actually true, ori technicalogy is simlar to ancient technolody which is simlar to goa'uld technology, so they have seen it before.

they also made a point in this eppisode that the technology will be simlar

AdamRLeggett
August 26th, 2006, 01:43 PM
As to your last line
it's almost a retroactive nod to comments made in 200. i.e. convieniently beaming away at the last second!
I know they were trying to do it from pretty much the beginning of the episode but still.

BTW Great episode

Farscapefan
August 26th, 2006, 01:44 PM
Geez, let's try and not be too judgemental before the ep even airs, shall we? I think the next ep has some potential actually.

I'd say it has great potential.

Descent
August 26th, 2006, 02:04 PM
I still stand by the 9/10 I gave this episode, close to perfect but I hate how the writers are always resorting to the ever convient "beam out". This isn't Star Trek, its Stargate. :P Other than that, I loved it.

Platschu
August 26th, 2006, 02:20 PM
But speaking of that blasted beaming technology, what the hell? Understand that as I sit here typing about it there's a stream of expletives and exclamations akin to one of Daffy Duck's diatribes running through my head. Seriously, no more. Take it away. Especially take it away from Joe Mallozzi. Right now it feels like I'm just bagging on the guy, but damn if it isn't deserved. Ex Deus Machina, The Scourge, Camelot, and now this one all heavily, heavily rely on crap-ass beam outs and silly timing coincideces dependent thereon to create "tension" or "drama". The writers used to be rather proficient at NOT using this silly plot device to make their stories work. Our heroes had to rely upon themselves and their own wits to get out of jams. Wouldn't a return to that fashion of denouement be welcome? A relief? A thrill?

vs.


For the protecting of the writer: I think the beaming technology is a good and modern way to finish stories with bigger dramatic mood on space ships. They used earlier ring platforms (2x01), stolen cargo ships (5x01), stolen death gliders (6x03), escape pods (3x07, 5x16) or stargates (2x01, 9x16). The actions were in the earlier seasons on different planets, there weren't so many ships, but now some stories played completly in space. So I think the using of beaming technology is a better and quicker way than the running for gliders to fly out. You should watch the season, because I think it will change after the events of "Bounty"

So, please, tell us a better way to escape from ships without help!

Bragi
August 26th, 2006, 02:29 PM
No they didn't, CN did write the Story for Fallout, don't believe me, look at GW's episode guide for Fallout (http://www.gateworld.net/sg1/s7/714.shtml).

Yeah. . . says right there. . . story by Corin Nemec.


EPISODE NUMBER - 714
ORIGINAL U.S. AIR DATE - 01.23.04
SYNDICATION AIR DATE - 01.24.05
STORY BY - Corin Nemec
TELEPLAY BY - Joseph Mallozzi & Paul Mullie

He didn't write the script, my mistake, but it was his story idea. It was his pitch, and they did the episode.

Do you come from a long line of hair-splitters?

LMichelle
August 26th, 2006, 02:32 PM
I think this could've been a two parter. There was a lot going on and I think we all knew the Odyssey would save their asses and beam them off the Ori ship. How convenient. ;)

Quinn Mallory
August 26th, 2006, 02:32 PM
I think if Jonas is still alive then he wont be for much longer, he seems the rebelious type.

Hopefully, Jonas would be mentioned in a future episode. I don't think we'll see him at all but it would be nice to hear that maybe he is still alive and rebelling somewhere.

randy
August 26th, 2006, 02:55 PM
But speaking of that blasted beaming technology, what the hell? Understand that as I sit here typing about it there's a stream of expletives and exclamations akin to one of Daffy Duck's diatribes running through my head. Seriously, no more. Take it away. Especially take it away from Joe Mallozzi. Right now it feels like I'm just bagging on the guy, but damn if it isn't deserved.

Deus ex machina was not used in the scene from the Ori ship. While, I agree, many qualities deemed the scene to be one; the literary term is used only when a scene has not imparted any information that would forebode it. (e.g, In "Revelations", there was never any mention of an Asgard cavalry that would arrive to save the SG1 from Anubis' relentless pursuit, not even an inclination. One could see that as providential.). Whereas, "Counterstrike", they cogently show the existence of an effort to teleport the team off the ship, imperiously cordinated in the deft hands of Samantha Carter; showing atleast, one of the team members struggled in order to save the team from certain doom, created by the Ancient weapon. I subscribe the whole beaming scene as an intricate plot device concurrent to the Jafa scenes, in order to build drama; but relatively speaking, the scene did not represent itself as a Deus ex machina.

PG15
August 26th, 2006, 02:56 PM
Solid episode with some major arc-development!

The points:

Morena was awesome and perfectly evil as Adria, not to mention hawt. :D She is definately not a pure evil being, which allows for a lot more development.

Dakara's gone. That was a big one. Also, Hebridan (yay! I hate them) and Langara's gone as well. I'm not a Jonas fan, but there's definately story-opportunaties here for bringing him back.

More Ori-ship goodness, which was very nice considering I'm trying to sculpt one.

Some foreshadowing for Danny, and I think there's much more to come on that front.

Very nice moment between Danny and Vala about Sha're, and we find out a little more about how Danny felt about her death.

One minor nuisence was the held-prisoner stuff. After seeing it time and again it gets a little boring.

Oh, good to see Lorian again, even if it was only an one-off.

Score: 9/10

Daniel's_twin
August 26th, 2006, 03:04 PM
I don't have time to read all the pages here, so forgive me if I repeat what's been said.

Excellent ep. It was great seeing Bra'tac again. It was also classic to finally see Landry off-world (I know he went through the gate before, but this was the first time we actually see him on another planet). The scenes between him and that new Jaffa leader who thinks a little too highly of himself and too little of the Tau'ri were pretty good. Further contention between the SGC and the beat-down Jaffa are going to get tense (no spoilers, just conjecture). The destruction of Dakara was also symbolic. The site of their new-found freedom destroyed. What a blow to their pride. I see a civil war coming on in the future.

Great scenes with Adria. I'm wondering what she meant by having plans for Daniel. I also wonder if she's going to be so forgiving of her mother next time, since she does have a limit to her patience. The Vala/Daniel scenes were also pretty sweet. Nice to know Daniel (and TPTB) haven't forgotten about Sha're, and that he's not likely to forget anytime soon.

I also wonder if we'll see Jonas in the future due to Langara's fall to the Ori. As much as I wasn't a fan of his, I also wish him no ill will.

All in all an excellent S10 episode. I give it a full 5/5. More SG-1, please! :cool:

majorsal
August 26th, 2006, 03:08 PM
Yep, talk about TPTB twisting the Jonas knife in me. Jonas is alive. Count on it. :) But despite that, this episode was by far one of the best this season.

yep, jonas is alive. ;) ((( :jonas: )))

he's actually having lunch with janet, jacob, and cassie, at the 'alternate reality cafe for forgotten characters'. jack works there; he's the waiter.




sally :)

o-0
August 26th, 2006, 03:14 PM
this is what she meant by having big plans for daniel
V BIG SPOILER V
Daniel becomes a prior
anyways, i liked the episode but i dont get how the priors died..dont they have ori powers using their staff? and do you think that pendant that adria has is merlin's weapon/counter-weapon?

saberhagen83
August 26th, 2006, 03:15 PM
Well finally a episode that was really good this season, only "Pegasus Project" comes above I think. This felt a little more like what SG1 used to be. Vala wasn't annoying at all in this one, if they can continue this way it might be a decent enough season. Although I have no big hopes for the next ep.

Adria could prove to be an interesting recurring character. I liked her in this one. It was also nice to hear Daniel mention Sha're. All in all a good and entertaining episode.

Jonzey
August 26th, 2006, 03:27 PM
I personally don't have a problem with the last-second beam outs. It's really no different from the last-second gate-outs from earlier seasons. The only difference is back then they had to run to the gate, here they have to lower the shield, or some other task beforehand. I mean imagine if there was a gate on the ship, all they have to do is run there and you get the same thing.

Also, wasn't Mitch supposed to cut the green one in this episode?

PG15
August 26th, 2006, 03:36 PM
The only way it can work like that is if it disintegrates anything with 'life-force', the same thing the Wraith feed on. But what, I ask you, is the point of making it not affect non-living organic tissue? There's nothing to be gained by leaving cloth, picked fruit, and animal skins behind. The useful stuff that you'd want to salvage from an enemy, i.e. computers and weapons, is inorganic and wouldn't be affected either way. It's also inconsistent with the previous description of how the weapon "washes away everything on a planet's surface".

What's the point of getting rid of them then? A fruit is a fruit, whether it's there or not doesn't really affect any salvage operations.


It was definitely better than average in terms of pacing, importance to the overall storyline, and character interaction. But, on a plot level, more than the "convenient beaming" bothered me. If Adria was able to (1) detect Mitchell's self-destruct effort in another part of the ship and stop it, and (2) fly the ship with almost no effort at all, including fire its weapons with amazing accuracy, how come she wasn't aware of what Sam was doing and stop her from taking down the shields?

The set her up as "all knowing" and "all powerful", and, then, showed that there was some activity that could slip past her amazing awareness with no explanation. One would also think this is something the characters would explore given it was a weakness.

IMHO Adria didn't seem very surprised when Danny and Vala got beamed away, so I think she didn't care if they escaped or not. She probably knows that there'll be plenty more encounters between them.

BubblingOverWithIdeas
August 26th, 2006, 03:47 PM
What's the point of getting rid of them then? A fruit is a fruit, whether it's there or not doesn't really affect any salvage operations.

So why go to the extra trouble of calibrating the weapon to only affect living beings? Having it affect all organic matter would be easier.

MasySyma
August 26th, 2006, 03:51 PM
Another great episode. (Too bad the morons at SciFi won't notice.)

I loved the Vala and Daniel scenes, especially where he talks about his wife.

Sam contines to have her brain with her, so I'm happy. She even rescued other this week. Yeah!!

I'm not thrilled with the Jaffa, but at least the darn weapon has finally been destroyed. Bra'tac might be able to lead the Jaffa nation now.

I like the Ori plot, and so far, I like the writer's use of Adria as well.

Aside from the Jaffa becoming annoying due to extreme tanicity, it was a great episode. 10/10.

PG15
August 26th, 2006, 03:52 PM
So why go to the extra trouble of calibrating the weapon to only affect living beings? Having it affect all organic matter would be easier.

How do you know that it would be easier?

majorsal
August 26th, 2006, 03:54 PM
If you can't respect the actor, at least respect the character.

oh my gawd, how that reflects for ALL the actors/characters.

rda didn't want to come back and do some more stuff in season 9? what the hayhoo difference should that make on JACK O'NEILL???

okay, i'll shut up now and cool down... i actually want to give my review of the ep. :p


~~

k, i didn't review this ep last night because a- i was underwhelmed, and b- the very last scene ticked me off. (i'll get to that at the end)


the things i liked:

mitchell maturity and vala depth.

daniel talking about share' (sp?).

sam doing major kicking of butt! :D

seing old friend bra'tac. (and him not dying)

co-leading thing with sam and mitchell. ;)




things i'm okay about:

adria (sp?). (and why did she go around wearing a beauty pageant dress?)

easy-out beaming out. in this ep, i was alright about it. and another poster mentioned about how, after 10 years of acquiring tech, they should have something like this. while it makes sense, it's getting a bit too easy to pull them out of the fire. and too easy for writers that are writing two shows at once.



things i didn't like:

just another ally/friend biting the dust. are they really trying to erase everything and everyone from stargate sg'1 past 8 seasons?

jaffas being jerks. still.

daniel and vala being paired off all the time. can't daniel go off in any directon with someone other than vala?

jonas better not be dead! and wouldn't it have been nice to actually mention the guys name, instead of 'no word from our allies?. *hugs jonas*

too many characters being serviced in one ep. which cuts down on everyone's screen time.

and saving the worst for last. this is why i left the episode ticked. and it's really rather minor, but brought up my protecting-sam vibes full speed...

when bra'tac said (paraphrasing) that vala had the heart of a seasoned warrior. and then daniel answering, no, it's just because she's a mother. my two reasons for not liking this were a- it felt terribly forced because bra'tac doesn't even know vala (and how on earth could he come to this conclusion from her little quip), and b- vala is about as much of a mother as walter is. mother insticts? sure. :rollseyes:

but i also fully admit that there was some jealousy involved for sam, because once again, something was taken from sam and given to a new character. and not the mother thing, but the past host stuff (that has gone with the wind, along with anything else about sam's past *except old male admirers*). k, done whining. :p

my overall thoughts/feelings on this ep was that it was alright. nothing special, but surely not bad. i gave it a fair rating.

(i've watched '200' a few times -including earlier in that day- so i'm coming off seeing the old team with the old vibe still in my heart. 'counterstrike' only reminded me what i'm not liking.)





sally :)

BubblingOverWithIdeas
August 26th, 2006, 04:06 PM
How do you know that it would be easier?

Because surely organic elements would be easier to focus on than some mysterious 'life-force' thing. And it's inconsistent with Jacob's description in Reckoning, part 2, of how the wave washes away "everything on a planet's surface". Perhaps it's best explained as the result of the Jaffa messing around with the device's settings.

PG15
August 26th, 2006, 04:06 PM
I don't see why the writers have to respect the characters if the fans don't.


Because surely organic elements would be easier to focus on than some mysterious 'life-force' thing. And it's inconsistent with Jacob's description in Reckoning, part 2, of how the wave washes away "everything on a planet's surface".

We're not sure of any of that. Jacob could've read the meaning wrong, etc.

Basically, this is an Ancient weapon using tech and concepts we're not even close to understanding. Whatever that may seem "wrong" with how it works can't really be argued either way.

majorsal
August 26th, 2006, 04:18 PM
I have said it before and I will say it again. Parker Lewis just cant lose. He is alive somewhere planning a counterstike against the Ori.

with jonas' brain, and his altered dna... anything is possible. ;)

hey, maybe he lets them turn him into a prior, and then he starts manipulating them with his special powers! :D




sally :jonas:

golfbooy
August 26th, 2006, 04:25 PM
For the protecting of the writer: I think the beaming technology is a good and modern way to finish stories with bigger dramatic mood on space ships. They used earlier ring platforms (2x01), stolen cargo ships (5x01), stolen death gliders (6x03), escape pods (3x07, 5x16) or stargates (2x01, 9x16). The actions were in the earlier seasons on different planets, there weren't so many ships, but now some stories played completly in space. So I think the using of beaming technology is a better and quicker way than the running for gliders to fly out. You should watch the season, because I think it will change after the events of "Bounty"
So, please, tell us a better way to escape from ships without help!
Um, is this a serious question? If it is, then I'm not sure I'm understanding you entirely. As far as I'm concerned, every single one of the methods you've mentioned are far and away "better" methods of escaping from ships. And they all, ostensibly, require NO help from anyone. See, that's what I'm trying (and apparently failing) to get at. I don't want anyone to have to help SG-1 to get off of the ships, to have someone else just fly on by with the Odyssey and merely remove SG-1 from danger. I want them to have to come up with a solution themselves, to have to then execute that solution while running into any and every conceivable problem along the way. Otherwise, you get what we got in Counterstrike, which is SG-1 basically stalking about the ship without purpose or intent, with events happening around them rather than being driven by them. I want the plot to unfold to me as a viewer in the same way it unfolds for the team, not as it's written on the page for some disinterested third or fourth party.

Certainly, with the ever-increasing number of episodes that take place entirely in space, a convenient transporter is needed to expedite the process of moving characters around. But to me, that is one of the problems with "ship shows", not an appealing attribute. And for me, "ship shows" and "space shows" have become far too prevalent in SG-1. So has the beaming technology, which isn't simply used to move characters about in space. No, it's used to solve far too many of the problems the writers use to tell stories, at the expense of believability (Ex Deus Machina) and to create far too many easily and convieniently solvable problems (Flesh and Blood). To me, the tradeoff for cheaper television just isn't worth the cost to the credibility of the writing.

Ultimately, there's a problem when the audience knows that the team is just going to be beamed out at the end of the day. And we've all know that for at least the past two seasons.


Originally Posted by Randy
Deus ex machina was not used in the scene from the Ori ship. While, I agree, many qualities deemed the scene to be one; the literary term is used only when a scene has not imparted any information that would forebode it. (e.g, In "Revelations", there was never any mention of an Asgard cavalry that would arrive to save the SG1 from Anubis' relentless pursuit, not even an inclination. One could see that as providential.). Whereas, "Counterstrike", they cogently show the existence of an effort to teleport the team off the ship, imperiously cordinated in the deft hands of Samantha Carter; showing atleast, one of the team members struggled in order to save the team from certain doom, created by the Ancient weapon. I subscribe the whole beaming scene as an intricate plot device concurrent to the Jafa scenes, in order to build drama; but relatively speaking, the scene did not represent itself as a Deus ex machina.
Hey, Randy. I didn't say that the beam outs in Counterstrike were a deus ex machina, though I did reference the episode entitled Ex Deus Machina. Is that maybe where the confusion is coming from?

You are correct, in the strictest definintion of the term, Counterstrike's beam outs don't qualify them as such. They are, however, a convenience for the writers and a crutch upon which too many of the team's escapes and escapades have been predicated upon. They're an easy source of criticism, too, because they prevent more creative and imaginative means of plotting to be considered. Repeated beam outs, as have become the order of the day in Stargate, rob episodes of both individuality and tension.

neptie
August 26th, 2006, 04:27 PM
I liked this ep.
I think the beaming out wasn't a problem here. I think it has been in the past, but pretty much when sg-1 doesn't even know it's going to happen. I don't mind them not knowing if it's one of them beaming the others out, either.
I think the Jafa have always had a temper problem. They're very passionate and have a strong sense of right and wrong and what extremes must one go to to ensure servival. In Emancipation Teal'c made a point of "if it's one life for many..." There's probably huge internal pressures and problems. It's probably hard sitting down to a festival with men, women and children who, not so long ago, were your mortal enemies.
And Vala? I did not role my eyes at her this time. I really thinks she needs Daniel there for her character to work. she needs more time to get to know the others for her to survive without Daniel. I really liked the character in season 8 and mostly in season 9, but this season's been rough. if they could just keep writting her with the humor of Prometheus unbound, and not htis kid sister in pigtails junk I think she'd be more lasting.
I think Jonas is alive. I think I read somewhere that at the end of season six they were thinking of using him as the lead in a spin-off, so that might still be the case. they're just giving him Ori experience now.
I think they mentioned Langara and Hebridan to elicit emotion from the audience. Rarely do our allies get completely run over.
In my opinion, even given the time constrant his character, CJ did fantastic! He always does, but that last scene... he just looked so down tordden at the loss of Dakara.
I love the Adria character. She's just so sincere. She really doesn't see a problem with worship or die. I love, absolutely love, that she is so attached to her mother. she could have gone the "You aboandoned me. Prepare to suffer." route, but she didn't. I think some of the best bad guys are the ones that don't know they're the bad guys. I think they're so much more dangerous.

P.S.
OT-what is TPTB?

majorsal
August 26th, 2006, 04:42 PM
Memento Mori is up next. Be afraid. Be very afraid.

argh, another reason why i left the episode ticked. :S :S






sally :)

betjam
August 26th, 2006, 05:05 PM
Good episode. But still tired of them beaming out. At least someone ran for the gate.

nccjones
August 26th, 2006, 05:33 PM
Awesome episode! Felt like old time (minus Jack :().

Daniel and Vala were great! I have to put them together. They are amazing together. I know many are complaining that they keep them together too much, but can you deny the dynamics? They are awesome! Whether as co-workers, friends or more. They just click. Daniel telling Vala about Shau're and comparing it to Vala's situation was so touching. It was done with taste also considering she hasn't been mentioned since...season 3 or 4?

Mitchell...for once he didn't bug the heck out of me and I actually liked the scene where he and Teal'c raised their guns against the Jaffa...nicely choreographed. The zatting was surprising though...when was the last time someone was knocked out by the first zat? It happened in earlier seasons, but later on it was just a painful experience, now they are back to being knocked out. I could see Mitchell getting knocked out since it was his first "zat" experience, but Teal'c...c'mon! The guy could probably live through the deadly three. But even though Mitchell didn't bug me, I still feel no connection to him whatsover. I'm still not feeling the love for Mitchell from the Big 3 either.

Sam was awesome in this episode with her handy, can link to any alien device Dell laptop. You go girl. She knows how to handle crisis. I loved the scene at the end when she puts her hand on Teal'c's shoulder. I do have a problem with TPTB for having her mention Hebridon and Langara. I'm not sure what happened btwn CN and TPTB, but his character is still a fan favorite among many, so at least respect the character and mention him. I believe he is alive and well and underground planning on defeating the Ori. That's Jonas.

Teal'c...wow! I feel for him. He had to fight against his own kind for 8 years, then finally they were freed and on the same side and now he's back at square one. Poor guy. His loyalty is with the Taure, but he must feel so alone inside. I really love how they are bringing this out in him. I felt they should have done this years ago when he really fought the Jaffa. He was so underutilized in the earlier seasons. Such ashame we won't see more of this after this season :(

Landry....Awesome! I could also see Hammond doing the same thing, and Landry did a great job. It didn't help that the Jaffa he went up against was a bore for the part, but he definately fought for the alliance and I felt bad for him and Bra'tac.

Adria...good job! The alien baby to adult is almost believable and doesn't feel too sharky to me. She really does feel something towards Vala. I loved Vala's "I'm putting my foot down" line. As for Adria, when I saw the scene when she says "we have plans for you" to Daniell, I couldn't help but laugh and think of the vid with MS all excited about a beautiful woman saying that to him and hoping for more...LMAO. It actually ruined the scene for me because I couldn't take it very serious...lol. I wonder how many takes it took just to get through it.

10/10.

unknown.entity
August 26th, 2006, 05:49 PM
Hebridan (http://www.gateworld.net/omnipedia/planets/links/hebridan.shtml) has "fallen to the Ori". Does this mean the Hebridians (http://www.gateworld.net/omnipedia/races/links/hebridians.shtml) fought the Ori and were wiped out or that they have pretended to accept Origin in order to survive?

I thought that the Ori wanted to convert all "humans" with their reasoning being that they created us. Well then, isn't imposing their religion on the Serrakin (http://www.gateworld.net/omnipedia/races/links/serrakin.shtml) against this? According to their reasoning, they have no right to force the Serrakin to worship them (since they are not human)!

:( I hope the Hebridians/Serrakin weren't wiped out...

JohnDuh
August 26th, 2006, 06:09 PM
I'm getting SICK of Malozzi's scripts being the only ones that have convenient beaming (at least Flesh and Blood made SOME sense as the ship was on the planet). Any other writer could have thought of something CREATIVE to do there.

The rest of the episode was good but every episode that involves the stupid asgard beam to save anyone at the last second gets -points from me. Why do the writers have to be so stupid?.

Its not stupid, its MAKING SENSE. It should happen ALWAYS. They are never in danger, we know that, to pretend otherwise is to be disrespectfull to the viewer. Do it and deal with it, as they did here - and did fine.