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    Atlantis Casting: Dr Weir

    This thread is to discuss the character of of Elizabeth Weir, the one in Lost City and the one in New Order and Atlantis.

    Before anyone participates in this thread, they may wish to acquaint themselves with the forum rules:
    http://forum.gateworld.net/faq.php?f...sics#faq_rules

    most particularly this paragraph:
    Respect Stargate actors and production crew members. This falls under the previous rule -- but it's important to remember that we owe the show's cast and crew at least as much respect as we owe our fellow fans. Criticizing creative decisions is fine; cutting down the people that make the show is not.

    This is the only thread to discuss the character of Weir. Any and all others that are started will be closed.

    If a poster does not wish to follow these rules, then they have no need to comment on this topic. If these rules are broken, those individuals may find themselves on moderated status.
    Last edited by Skydiver; 11 August 2004, 06:34 PM.
    Where in the World is George Hammond?


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    #2
    I think that part of the reason that some people dislike the character is, as ShadowMaat pointed out in one of the other threds, the writers haven't done a great job of delivering with dialogue and actions entirely true to the way the character was advertised.

    She can be indecisive, which fits in with one way to look at the character, but may be grating to those used to SG1, which is set up with a different kind of command decision.

    There is the consistency problem in the casting change, which no matter what you think of either actress can be jarring to the viewer.

    They've also put her on the side of a particularly unpleasent character in Suspicion, I think probably a mistake this early in the series given that the viewers haven't been able to get to know her that well.

    And than there is the 38 Minutes speech about exiling the good Dr. Kavanugh. That was probably not very well thought out, and on reviewing of the episode does seem rather shoved in, like the writers thought it would be important for her to say at some point, but just shoved it in probably an inappropriate place. It might not have been so bad if it had been in, say, Suspicion.

    Now I rather like the character, but she's not entirely without flaws in it's presentation, very little of them though, lay in the acting.
    Last edited by Major Fischer; 11 August 2004, 06:43 PM. Reason: spell correction


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      #3
      As for posting something relevant and which actually has some solid content, I think there's a lot of good potential in both the character and the actress. I hope that TPTB are smart enough to utilize both to the fullest extent possible. I'd like to see more of Weir actually struggling and trying to deal with this myriad group of people under her command. It can't be easy dealing with that many nationalities. And then there are the Athosians...

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        #4
        So why is she so great, fuzzy? If you're her staunchest supporter, maybe you can offer some insight into what it is about her that you love so much- other than the fact that she's great. There HAS to be more to it than that and I feel confident that you of all people will be able to articulate a coherent and meaningful response beyond "Weir rocks!"

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          #5
          I initially took a dislike to Dr. Weir, but now I'm more open to giving her a chance to improve. Like other people, it occured to me that her character was introduced in Atlantis much the same way that Hammond was introduced in SG1--way, way hardnosed and by the book. It took awhile, but his really good characteristics eventually came through--like his calmness, basic goodness, and actually, a more relaxed manner of leadership (after all, he tolerated O'Neill and cut him a ton of slack). I would like to see Weir begin to show some of those same characteristics, because so far she seems too often to be part of the problem herself. Meaning she gets too intense and doesn't show enough confidence in the people she's leading. Sometimes she runs roughshod over people who really just want to do a good job for the team, even if their effort is done imperfectly.

          I think that scene with Cavanaugh was a good example of this. She went out of her way to bust him in the chops in front of his team, and then escalates it further when he comes to her privately to complain. Obviously this is leading up to a further plot complication, but for the sake of Weir's character, I think she needs to own up to her mistakes and apologize to him. At least make the effort to smooth things over (which is what a good leader does). Then if he does something stupid, she will have at least tried to rectify the situation. (ps. I haven't seen all of the episodes so far, so if this has already happened, then nevermind .

          I realize that Weir's character is under a lot of stress, which makes her intensity understandable. I just hope TPTB find a way to make her more accessible and sympathetic. Maybe even give her some quirks (and a sense of humor!! and maybe even smile some more!). Having seen the snippet of Torri Higginson's interview for the sneak preview of Atlantis, I keep thinking that she really is a radiant person who has a lot to offer the show. I think if they can let some of that person show through in the character of Dr. Weir, that a lot of people would come to like her more.

          Remember, a person can rule through fear (I can out yell you!), or kindness and confidence in others. I think the first option does not work at all for Weir, but the second option will, imho.

          There ya go, my two cents. For what it's worth,

          Many Bleems

          Good sci fi is about special effects. Great sci fi is about people.

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            #6
            After just re-watching the early episodes of SG-1 i realized how much Hammond had changed. During the first two seasons his character fluctuated a lot. I assume the same is going to be true with Wier

            I like her, mostly though.

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              #7
              The deletions in this thread were all done by me. It's not usual for the mods to summarily delete posts unless they are really awful, and it has to be said, for fairness, that none of the deleted posts were flames. But they had the potential to derail the thread, and since we've had difficulty in keeping Dr Weir threads polite and sane, I'm inclined to be extremely heavy handed here.

              If anyone has issues with the moderation you can PM any of the mods. Now, on with the thread...

              Madeleine W

              Madeleine

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                #8
                All I've seen of her are the three two-parters she was in. I liked Steen-Weir a lot, she had presence and held her own well against Hayes and Kinsey. I liked Higson-Weir too; less than Steen-Weir, but it's hard to know how much of that is because I was getting confused by her not looking the same, or because I was expecting something a little different.

                I think she has a lot of potential. We've seen the military vs non-agressive thing plenty with Daniel and Jack, but the Weir / Sheppard dynamic has the non-military one in charge. We've seen the non-military senior person clashing with the military before, but Weir is no Kinsey. I thought her dynamic with Sheppard was good, I really liked them together. (Both Weirs had a great chemistry with Daniel, but that's pretty much by the by, by now).

                I do have to wonder though at the background she's been given. It's said in the show that command of the Atlantis mission is right up her alley, but would it really be? She's a diplomat, and I'd have thought that she'd be more useful at the SGC, negotiating really effectively with known opponents, rather than as an explorer. That's a nitpick though, I suppose.

                Anyway, I'm looking forward to seeing how she develops.

                Madeleine

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                  #9
                  I keep going back and forth on Weir. I think the actress is fairly good, she brings a nice dignity and strength to the character but I'm still having trouble liking her.

                  First, it's always seemed odd to me that a character with her background was picked to be in charge of this expedition. I'm not sure who I'd choose (civilian-wise) that would be better, but it still seems strange. Steen-Weir at least seemed to acknowledge how out of her depth she was - being placed in command of the SGC - but Higginson-Weir seems determined to bluff her way thru even in situations where she's clearly inexperienced. I think they're trying to promote the character as a strong leader, without making her shrill or coming across as a b**tch, and they're not always succeeding.

                  I rooted for Steen-Weir to show up Kinsey, I'm having trouble rooting for Higginson-Weir. I think it would help if they gave Weir some development "outside the office" so to speak. Some personality quirks, some signs that she's overwhelmed at times, some real connection to the other characters. I liked her dynamic with Sheppard in the premiere but since then I haven't really felt that they've developed that bond they seemed to be forming.

                  I want to *like* this person but right now I don't look forward to seeing Weir every week the way I do Sheppard and McKay and Beckett. I'm willing to see how things go. I think there's still a lot of potential for Weir to be a really great character.
                  Life is hard...and it's harder if you're stupid

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                    #10
                    I think it might help if they told us exactly what kind of "diplomatic" work she did. I want to say that she was someone like a trade negotiator used to heavy handed leadership, or perhaps she was involved with the UN peace keeping or the international criminal court (perhaps investigating war crimes), both of which would have filled the requirement I think Kinsey had of putting someone in there likely to have issues with the military.

                    I could easily see the character as someone who has led international expeditions before, but usually ones where she had to deal with competing governments and couldn't trust that her people weren't working against her (a lot the ICC argument). I could also easily see her as someone who's life experiance has told her not to trust people in uniform, and slowly she's having to unlearn all those lessons.

                    Unfortunately the writers haven't told us this yet, and it's completely unclear. I think there are reasonable and interesting justifications for her behavior, they just haven't been made clear yet.


                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by Major Fischer
                      *snip* ...both of which would have filled the requirement I think Kinsey had of putting someone in there likely to have issues with the military.
                      Oh yeah, I'd forgotten she's supposed to have "issues" with the military. Probably because we haven't seen much evidence of that.

                      Spoilers for Suspicion
                      Spoiler:

                      She seemed very keen to have Bates's input on matters, and supported his rather draconian measures to insure their "safety".


                      Also, for someone who's isn't supposed to be keen on the military, she seems to be dealing well with them all with no qualms or noticeable objections other than a few bits in Rising. She's also very military-minded, much more so than someone I would think would actively try to be different and separate herself from the Air Force/whatever people around her. She isn't different enough from them to make it noticeable. She should, IMO, be much more questioning of them. She who questions EVERYTHING about the Athosians (who are decidedly civilian) has no problems at all with the gun-toting "Sir, yes, sir!" types? Gimme a break...

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                        #12
                        That might be deliberate. There is the line that no one is as fanatical as a convert I think the problem though is that we haven't seen the conversion. It could be that they are assuming that her experiances in Lost City and New Order have given her a different outlook on the military.

                        I don't go looking for spoilers for future episodes, so I really don't know if that sort of explanation on the character is coming. I really hope it is.


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                          #13
                          The following is in response to a number of comments, both in this thread, but also several of the (now) closed threads.

                          I don't quite understand all the hate directed at Weir. Common people it's only been like 5 episodes plus her guesting on SG1. It takes a bit of time to get to know the characters well enough to be able to hate them

                          And give the Steen/Higginson a rest. I'm sure that if Steen had been available they would not have recast the role. I think Higginson has done a fine job (as good as can be expected) but the character (like all of them) is still a little undetermined.

                          Of course she's going to have quite a different command style then Hammond but there is nothing wrong with that. And while she may not be cut from the typical scifi 'eye candy' mold she's not hard to look at. And of course critisizing her on those grounds is both unfair and stupid.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            I missed a lot of last season's SG1, so I don't have the comparison issues of Steen and Higginson - which seems to be a good thing - I can appreciate her character on it's own merits.

                            I'd have to say overall I enjoy Weir's character. She seems a little overwhelmed and doesn't always make the best decisions - busting Kavanaugh in front of his team was out of line, but her response to his complaint was not; "interviewing" the Athosians instead of visiting them in their homes where they would be less defensive and more communicative. But those are writer's decisions and perhaps they want to portray a less-than-perfect leader that struggles as much as anyone else would.

                            She has great non-verbal communication... she's given looks that would stop a Wraith in it's tracks and displays emotions well, even conflict and doubt.

                            I would like to see her character develop more trust in those outside her senior team and have a bit more of a sense of humor, but that's just me. I think she'll do well, though.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by ibwolf
                              I'm sure that if Steen had been available they would not have recast the role.
                              Actually, that's not true. Steen was cast in LC knowing full well that her character would- or would very likely- be spun off to Atlantis. The producers, for reasons we are not privy to, re-cast the role when it came to actually starting on the spinoff, though.

                              I am trying to give the character a chance, but I still feel that some crucial moments have been badly mis-played by the writers and it's hurting the character. Hopefully things will improve...

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