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QuiGonJohn
May 18th, 2005, 05:30 PM
I always wonder about that even in SG-1. I am up to early Season 4. I can't believe so many SG teams go on missions just with guns, when by now, they have had opportunity to get tons of staff weapons and a lot of zats as well.

grendelsbayne
May 18th, 2005, 08:11 PM
in SG-1 they have mised alien tech with earth tech in more than just flying crafts.. take the P90's in Prometheus Unbound. they have a stun ability aswell as the standerd firepower.. thats def. not earth tech (the stun option)

Where in that ep did a p90 have a stun setting?

Lightsabre
May 18th, 2005, 08:22 PM
Where in that ep did a p90 have a stun setting?

THere talking about the addition that kills Kull Warriors. It doesn't however, do a damn thing to anyone else.
It's not a stun gun.

grendelsbayne
May 18th, 2005, 08:25 PM
THere talking about the addition that kills Kull Warriors. It doesn't however, do a damn thing to anyone else.
It's not a stun gun.

That's the only thing I could think of. Maybe I remembered something wrong, but didn't Carter design that thing herself?

Lightsabre
May 18th, 2005, 08:29 PM
That's the only thing I could think of. Maybe I remembered something wrong, but didn't Carter design that thing herself?

Yup, there's a whole ep where they chase her and Jacob all over the Alpha site planet for it.
Its' not a stun gun, it simply clips to the p-90 and fires a ray that kill kull warriors.

col_oatmeal
May 22nd, 2005, 02:53 PM
I think they just want the 2 SG universes to be separate so that i sprobably why there are no Zats.

Stricken
May 23rd, 2005, 01:47 AM
I think they just want the 2 SG universes to be separate so that i sprobably why there are no Zats.
Yep except for the crossover of characters, stories etc

To sumerise the Zats are on Earth in the Armory in the SGC!

Jonzey
May 23rd, 2005, 02:14 AM
Spoilers from The Gift:

When Teyla is taken over by the wraith for the second time, they try to use an electric shock to control her, but it doesn't work. So a zat works on the same principle (an electrical charge) and would probably not affect the wraith

Acropolis
May 29th, 2005, 03:05 PM
the charge in the gift was supposed to be so weak it was unoticable, second time its like a cattle prod a lot weaker than the zat. zats are very portable, dont have to be reloaded or charged thats how come in mobieus II daniel jackson could stock pile them. Zats would work on wraith they maybe like ares but it should have been added. it is useful for putting an energy field (like when oneil was zatted to repell those bug things) and initalizing an electric flow (oniel zatted the crystals in lost city Pt II to get the ship going faster). its safer then getting shot with a p90 because 1 shot stunns not kills unless you are weak.

Why no glider cannon i dont know its better than a bazooka if u put a scope on it. heavier yes but no ammo neads to be caried.

staff weapons hell, tayla needs one a very durable weapon (yes it is you beat people with it no refrence needed) and can fire a blast so tayla and native warriors would be very useful with one. also stock piled so no recharge needed. and we all know it already has a built in power source

Ganjaman
May 30th, 2005, 05:29 AM
I'm betting that if those staff weapons were analysed we could come up with a much smaller weapon that still had the same blast effect. The ga'uld were not known for engieering creativity in that way much of their power was mythological e.g. jaffa helmets keeping in line with god theory.

blazingelements
September 7th, 2005, 01:24 PM
I've seen all of Stargate Atlantis Season 1 & 2 and there appears be no zat involved in any combat situations. The only thing that's included from the original series of Stargate SG-1 is that they use the Asgard technology to fight off the wraith. Now, can anyone tell me if there are gonna be any zats involed in any upcoming episodes? :S

Jeffer
September 7th, 2005, 01:49 PM
prob not TPTB wanted to start fresh and not really have any thing from SG-1

Qasim
September 7th, 2005, 01:50 PM
No zats they didnt want goa'uld tech at first but with the way the show is going it seems like a strange decision

AGateFan
September 7th, 2005, 05:03 PM
Im sure they will change their mind if the plot calls for it.

It appears at this point that the wraith stunners work better (no two strike rule), and now they have a hand gun version and I am sure the Atlantis team picked up a lot of those killing all the wraith in the city. So unless a gou'ald or a Jaffa or a tokra or a intergalactic bounty hunter that likes the full name of Zats or a furling or a GIANT Alien shows up I dont think they will be using them. And may not use them even if one of the above did happen to show up, which may or may not happen, but again if the plot calls for it they will use it.

NowIWillDestroyAbydos
September 7th, 2005, 05:29 PM
I would really like to see Zats on Atlantis.

the fifth man
September 7th, 2005, 05:32 PM
I would really like to see Zats on Atlantis.

Same here. They have just become part of stargate over the years. Every episode I watchof Atlantis, I see countless missed zat opportunities. It makes me sad.

NowIWillDestroyAbydos
September 7th, 2005, 05:37 PM
Same here. They have just become part of stargate over the years. Every episode I watchof Atlantis, I see countless missed zat opportunities. It makes me sad.
I agree it is sad. :(

I wonder this:
If it take dozens of bullets to take down a Wraith.
And A half a dozen bullets (or less) to take down a Jaffa.
Then I think this, One shot from a zat wouldn't take down a Wraith, it would take two shots from a zat.

the fifth man
September 7th, 2005, 05:38 PM
Of course, the show is still young. There may still come a time where zats are required. I'll just hope for that to be soon.

NotANumber
September 7th, 2005, 05:45 PM
Wasn't there a joke going around at one point about how someone had 'forgotten' to bring the box of zats? It may have been on one of those Sci-Fi specials.

the fifth man
September 7th, 2005, 06:08 PM
Even if that were the case, that shouldn't be a problem now. Not with the Daedalus.

Atlantis1
September 7th, 2005, 10:40 PM
At this point I think the wraith rifles would be sufficent. Although does anyone know which gun shoots the farthest, the wraith rifle or the zat?

Stricken
September 8th, 2005, 12:28 AM
No one knows as they havent been in the same show!

Sighfienerd
September 8th, 2005, 09:44 AM
It does seem odd that they didn't bring zats since there was a definite crossover with SG1 in the beginning of the series, which would mean the technology was available to them.

Three shots from a projectile type weapon barely phase a Wraith, but three shots from a zat would disintegrate one. So my guess is that zats in the Pegasus galaxy might have taken some of edge off an enemy that is supposed to be very difficult to kill, which is part of what makes them so scary (other than the nasty, big teeth and life-force sucking thing, of course). :p

Lord Zedd
September 8th, 2005, 09:46 AM
but a few shots from a P90 like in the Siege part 3 kills them easily but it could be that the Wraith were hungry and hadn't eaten in a very long time and that is why they were easy to kill.
Why don't they use zats in atlantis. We don't even see SG.1 using the zat. Is it still standard. Teal'c doesn't even use his staff weapon anymore :( shame. !!

Pasankoon
June 3rd, 2006, 11:47 PM
Most SGC personnel are equiped with them why doesn't the deddy carry a couple'o crates full of zats the next time round it comes to atlantis? They would be incredibly good against the wraith. Even if one it was able to recover soon from the first shot the second shot should put it out for good. Third shot NO CHANCE! Their refire rate is not too bad either (just have a look at Teal'c shooting up a battalion of jafar). Sure they are most effective at close range rather than long but isn't that where in most cases we fight the wraith? Most the time we engage wraith footsoldiers they are in close confined space.

Sure they should still carry a P90. But why not keep a zat handy as well they dont even run out of bullets. Remember All those times they loose the P90 and end up using a hand-gun with no success till it runs dry, simply pull out a zat and unleash 2-3 shots and that would take out fine.

Gregorius
June 4th, 2006, 12:22 AM
Would you please use the search function before making thread #1290432587304534084305345780345932702 concerning this question.

Hatcheter
June 4th, 2006, 01:47 AM
Hatcheter’s “not another zats thread” standard reply form:

In the world of Stargate, there are two very plausible reasons why they didn’t take zats:

Reliability Zats are alien weapons, and Earth has not yet shown the ability to reproduce or even understand their functionality. No military unit would use weapons they are unable to maintain or repair. They would use the weapons they are familiar with, that they can repair or reconstruct as needed.

Availability When the Atlantis expedition left, the Milky Way was still embroiled in the Jaffa Rebellion. The SGC would be funneling all recovered weapons to the rebel Jaffa, keeping very few for research or supplemental equipment.

Functionality We have seen races that are unaffected by zats. The Wraith, with their incredible regenerative ability and extreme tollerance for pain, may be one of them.

Ultimately, TPTB wanted to separate the two shows, and limiting the crossover of alien stuff created in SG-1 was one of the biggest ways to do that. We got naquadah reactors, so we had to give up the zats.

2ndgenerationalteran
June 4th, 2006, 02:10 AM
can we stop making these forums, there must be dozens already out there.

Bragi
June 4th, 2006, 01:53 PM
"Why no Zats" thread number 789,986,309.

And the reason is to make the shows mildly different. I emphasize the world "mildly" because the Wraith Stunners do the same friggin' thing, except they look and sound stupid. It's just a cosmetic difference. . . like the Gate being blue instead of grey.

beale947
June 4th, 2006, 02:58 PM
the Atlantis writers said, Zats don't work on the wraith as the wraith healing effect negates the zats stunning effect.

gkyun
June 5th, 2006, 05:40 AM
the Atlantis writers said, Zats don't work on the wraith as the wraith healing effect negates the zats stunning effect.
And how would the expedition have known the first time they got to Atlantis? They didn't even know the Wraith existed. Also if the zats can't stun 'em, how about giving 'em 2 or 3 shots each?
Anyway I'm just saying this subjectively for the sake of the argument, barring the notion of separating the two shows.

IcyNeko
June 5th, 2006, 10:31 AM
Meh. They have wraith stunners...

It seems like each stargate team collects enemy weapons. We have a large store of zats on earth.. and a large store of wraith stunners on atlantis. :)

beale947
June 5th, 2006, 12:29 PM
And how would the expedition have known the first time they got to Atlantis? They didn't even know the Wraith existed. Also if the zats can't stun 'em, how about giving 'em 2 or 3 shots each?
Anyway I'm just saying this subjectively for the sake of the argument, barring the notion of separating the two shows.

Um ask TPTB that, because thats what they said, so don't shoot the messanger

Major Gambit
June 5th, 2006, 02:19 PM
they dont need ZAT's, they have wraith stunners

Harekin
June 5th, 2006, 03:31 PM
Also P90's!

Major Tyler
June 5th, 2006, 03:45 PM
Okay, I just merged about 22 "Why no Zats in Atlantis" threads. :S

The "off-screen" reason the Atlantis Expedition doesn't have zats is because TPTB wanted to give Stargate Atlantis its own identity, and not using zats was one component of that.

2ndgenerationalteran
June 5th, 2006, 05:27 PM
they dont need ZAT's, they have wraith stunners

so true, and you can shoot them as much as you like (i think)

Cap116
November 7th, 2006, 03:42 PM
Does anyone know why the Atlantis expedition did not take any Zats with them? The only time you see anyone from Atlantis use a Zat is in "The Return Pt.1." IMO, I figured that they would want to take Zats with them as an atlernative to killing anyone. Anyone have any ideas?

rarocks24
November 7th, 2006, 03:47 PM
Why use ZATs when they have Wraith stunners. They didn't need ZATs in the beginning when they left for Atlantis, now they don't need them because they have Wraith stunners.

SaberBlade
November 7th, 2006, 03:48 PM
Just because we didn't see them doesn't mean they didn't take any. They could have always stuck one into a backpack.

Plus, they were going to reclaim Atlantis from Asurians since they knew it was under attack by them, so killing people is one of their intentions.

Bragi
November 7th, 2006, 03:49 PM
Starring Anthony Hopkins?

WereWraith06
November 7th, 2006, 03:52 PM
As I just said in the previous post is a Zat could take down a Wraith in 2-3 shots why use half a clip from a P-90

senordingdong
November 9th, 2006, 10:49 AM
I have wondered this before. It probably has something to do with cross over rules.

The Great Lord Baal
November 9th, 2006, 11:09 AM
The reason i think is they really didnt want to much crossing over from sg1 but nothing beats the sound of a zat

Puddle-Jumper
November 9th, 2006, 11:39 AM
The reason i think is they really didnt want to much crossing over from sg1 but nothing beats the sound of a zat

Word....

Admiral Mappalazarou
November 9th, 2006, 11:58 AM
Since the announcement that SG-1 is facing the shaft, they should move the ZAT guns over from that show and onto Atlantis, I mean it's not like we're going to see them used anywhere else....unless another spin-off is released....mwahahahahaha!!

DelTrax1
November 9th, 2006, 03:01 PM
I think they should send over twinkies to the wraith...and then when they go to eat them they could zat them and the stun them with wraith stunners and then shoot them with P-90's....that should work....everyone loves the twinky.

RepliHawk
November 9th, 2006, 06:01 PM
I think they should send over twinkies to the wraith...and then when they go to eat them they could zat them and the stun them with wraith stunners and then shoot them with P-90's....that should work....everyone loves the twinky.

Ha Ha

TheBigFlush
November 9th, 2006, 07:51 PM
From a production point of view, the Zat just belongs to a different style. Atlantis has its very own art/design style, and the Zat doesn't fit into it that well.

From a "but wouldn't the characters want to bring Zats with them?" point of view, I suppose you could say they might have been worried about any potential misunderstandings walking around carrying Goa'uld technology?

Mabase
November 9th, 2006, 08:17 PM
But Wraith stunners .. stun and dont kill (I think im right on that). Zats stun, kill and... make things disapear when you need a plot hole patched.

So why not give them some Zats? The Jaffa and their buddies have an almost infinite ammount it seems.

Hatcheter
November 9th, 2006, 11:46 PM
*sigh* It never ends.


Hatcheter’s “not another zats thread” standard reply form:

In the world of Stargate, there are some very plausible reasons why they didn’t take zats:

Reliability Zats are alien weapons, and Earth has not yet shown the ability to reproduce or even understand their functionality. No military unit would use weapons they are unable to maintain or repair. They would use the weapons they are familiar with, that they can repair or reconstruct as needed.

Availability When the Atlantis expedition left, the Milky Way was still embroiled in the Jaffa Rebellion. The SGC would have been funneling all recovered weapons to the rebel Jaffa, keeping very few for research or supplemental equipment. With the rebellion now over, there's not much in the way of battlefield salvage anymore.

Functionality We have seen races that are unaffected by zats. The Wraith, with their incredible regenerative ability and extreme tollerance for pain, may be one of them.

Ultimately, TPTB wanted to separate the two shows, and limiting the crossover of alien stuff created in SG-1 was one of the biggest ways to do that. Atlantis got naquadah reactors, so they had to give up the zats.

senordingdong
November 10th, 2006, 12:59 PM
Reliability Zats are alien weapons, and Earth has not yet shown the ability to reproduce or even understand their functionality. No military unit would use weapons they are unable to maintain or repair. They would use the weapons they are familiar with, that they can repair or reconstruct as needed.
If that was the case then why do we see them used all the time in Sg-1?



Ultimately, TPTB wanted to separate the two shows, and limiting the crossover of alien stuff created in SG-1 was one of the biggest ways to do that. Atlantis got naquadah reactors, so they had to give up the zats.
This is obviously the reason.

ur uncle urgo
November 10th, 2006, 01:08 PM
i think they need good hand energy weapons like some ancient stuff that we can kill a wraith with in one shot is we cant have zats or staff weapons

ZPMMaker
November 11th, 2006, 05:24 AM
Starring Anthony Hopkins?

ROFL!


...at least I understood it.

Merlin's_Legacy
November 11th, 2006, 04:01 PM
The ultimate reason Zats are not in Atlantis is because the Zat effect is one of the most expensive effects created for Stargate as it is not computer generated. Every Zat shot is hand drawn, frame by frame. Possibly done on computer, but an artist still has to go in with a graphics tablet and hand-draw the entire effect on top of the scene. This is also why we stopped seeing zats as much in the last two or three seasons of SG1.

The Ori
November 11th, 2006, 05:21 PM
Well I'd liketo see a little bit of SG-1 features in Atlantis, so I'd say go for it!!

UlsterBob
December 20th, 2006, 01:35 PM
Wasn't there a joke going around at one point about how someone had 'forgotten' to bring the box of zats? It may have been on one of those Sci-Fi specials.

I think that was me, I'm afraid!! I came up with that in an earlier thread on the same issue. See my signature for the original joke (not that I'd object to it appearing in the show at some point!!! :) )

But Episode 50, the Return (which I've just watched) features the very first appearance of a Zat gun in Atlantis, although unfortunately NOT in Atlantis!!!

jenks
December 20th, 2006, 01:53 PM
Now, can anyone tell me if there are gonna be any zats involed in any upcoming episodes? :S

I've seen a Zat in season 3.

WereWraith06
December 20th, 2006, 02:06 PM
there's no knowing how advance senses in atlantis would react the presets of Gou'ald weapons etc. However the city doesn't react to Wraith weapons being used so i don't if it would do anything???

helio9
December 20th, 2006, 07:56 PM
One shot from a Zat stuns a human - it doesnt even knock him out if the guy is prepared for it (see Jack in the one with the glowy bugs). Theres really no point in using it if it takes 10 shots to knock out a wraith. And the stunners work fine for non-lethal work.

Although the stunners don't have that nice 1 shot stun 2 shot kill 3 shot vaporize thing. Say what you want about the Goa'uld, but the Zat has finesse.

Daedalus-304
December 20th, 2006, 09:50 PM
I like the Wraith stunners better; you can shoot someone that's annoying you without worrying about accidentally killing that person.

FallenAngelII
December 20th, 2006, 11:16 PM
There's zat-usage in 3x10 "The Return (part I)", but it was done in the SGC. It was an episode SGA, though.

The Ori
December 21st, 2006, 07:03 AM
I always here that Atlantis has to be its own franchise but I'd like to see a bit of the old SG-1 bits and peices in the show! Like the Zat guns.

wise one
December 21st, 2006, 01:15 PM
well a zat can be useful, how many times a zat was used to power something

a few times , you cant do that with a wraith stunner(i think)

Ltcolshepjumper
December 21st, 2006, 01:16 PM
I always here that Atlantis has to be its own franchise but I'd like to see a bit of the old SG-1 bits and peices in the show! Like the Zat guns.

They could just give them guns that work like zats. that would be better.

TheUnknown
December 21st, 2006, 01:31 PM
As said before, the zats may have little effect on the Wraith. Originally, Martouf was meant to survive two hits in "Divide and Conquer."

ACharmedAsgard
December 21st, 2006, 03:11 PM
This is a question I've asked myself many a times, why would they not use such a commonly used device in Atlantis, ok the wraith may withstand a shot or two better then humans, but all it would mean is for who ever has the zat to shoot more.

PG15
December 21st, 2006, 05:26 PM
Shooting more = less time to escape.

Look at Col. Everrete(sp?) in Siege Part 2, that gun would've eventually killed the Wraith like in Siege Part 1, but he didn't have time to unload the needed amount of ammo.

ussrelativity
December 21st, 2006, 06:51 PM
At least they showed it's use (the zat) in "The Return".


YEE-HAW!!!

800 POSTS!!!

fugiman
January 30th, 2007, 09:42 PM
I'm just saying that if I was to go to a universe and maybe not have a chance to come back to earth I would like to have a weapon that shoots alot so I wish I could a Zat. I mean why not take a zat they are great stun weapons and I wonder how they would work on wraith. I mean how many shots does a Zat have like infinte? So thats all I'm saying I would have gotten one just for the logical reason

StevenCaldwell
January 31st, 2007, 01:47 AM
yeah but we have the wraith stunners tho, sort of the same!

[SGC_ReplicÅtors]
January 31st, 2007, 09:46 AM
what about those asuran guns theres got to be some of them lieing around somewhere in atlantis or on any ancient ships

lord_Jakub[SG-1]
February 8th, 2007, 05:11 AM
Haven't you noticed that no one still used for example zat gun in SGA ?
I wonder why these goa'uld technology to paralyse were not used in SGA yet. For example when they needed to catch alive wraith. Correct me if I'm wrong.. but it would be nice to see some Milky way tech.

Another thing I would like to mention is that Atlantis is losing puddle jumpers time to time.. maybe it is time to build new Earth gliders-like ships - maybe something between puddle jumper and gate glider. Earth has enough knowledge to build few.. (when we have 2 intergalactic ships we can build few new F501 :) )

wise one
February 8th, 2007, 05:28 AM
you never know they might make a new ship simliar to the darts, they would have culling beams and maybe the energy the dart has and a visible screen on it, it would look quite cool actually.


zats have always belonged to sg-1 and if they bring small weapons like that then they would start bringing in bigger things like a hatak that would be some crossover problems.

Major Tyler
February 8th, 2007, 05:33 AM
Zats don't work on Wraith. They regenerate so fast that the effect (both initial and cumulative) is negated almost immediately. If you had 5 or 6 guys rapid firing at a Wraith simultaneously, it might have some effect, but that's not very practical.

Chemp
February 8th, 2007, 06:03 AM
They used Zats in the return part 2.

:sheppard: :ronan: :teyla: :mckay: :weir: :beckett:

Hatcheter
February 8th, 2007, 10:58 AM
Hatcheter’s “not another zats thread” standard reply form:

In the world of Stargate, there are some very plausible reasons why they didn’t take zats:

Reliability Zats are alien weapons, and Earth has not yet shown the ability to reproduce or even understand their functionality. No military unit would use weapons they are unable to maintain or repair. They would use the weapons they are familiar with, that they can repair or reconstruct as needed.

Availability When the Atlantis expedition left, the Milky Way was still embroiled in the Jaffa Rebellion. The SGC would have been funneling all recovered weapons to the rebel Jaffa, keeping very few for research or supplemental equipment. With the rebellion now over, there's not much in the way of battlefield salvage anymore.

Functionality We have seen races that are unaffected by zats. The Wraith, with their incredible regenerative ability and extreme tollerance for pain, may be one of them.

Ultimately, TPTB wanted to separate the two shows, and limiting the crossover of alien stuff created in SG-1 was one of the biggest ways to do that. Atlantis got naquadah reactors, so they had to give up the zats.

pliepl
February 8th, 2007, 12:45 PM
Zats don't work on Wraith. They regenerate so fast that the effect (both initial and cumulative) is negated almost immediately. If you had 5 or 6 guys rapid firing at a Wraith simultaneously, it might have some effect, but that's not very practical.

I disagree. We don’t know if they do or not and to go out and say that they absolutely won’t is a bit premature. If the Wraith had regenerative abilities so effective that rendered them immune in the way you would suggest, than wraith stunners would have no affect on them. We already know that is not true.


Hatcheter’s “not another zats thread” standard reply form:

In the world of Stargate, there are some very plausible reasons why they didn’t take zats:

Reliability Zats are alien weapons, and Earth has not yet shown the ability to reproduce or even understand their functionality. No military unit would use weapons they are unable to maintain or repair. They would use the weapons they are familiar with, that they can repair or reconstruct as needed.

Availability When the Atlantis expedition left, the Milky Way was still embroiled in the Jaffa Rebellion. The SGC would have been funneling all recovered weapons to the rebel Jaffa, keeping very few for research or supplemental equipment. With the rebellion now over, there's not much in the way of battlefield salvage anymore.

Functionality We have seen races that are unaffected by zats. The Wraith, with their incredible regenerative ability and extreme tollerance for pain, may be one of them.

Ultimately, TPTB wanted to separate the two shows, and limiting the crossover of alien stuff created in SG-1 was one of the biggest ways to do that. Atlantis got naquadah reactors, so they had to give up the zats.

Reliability : Zats are probably one of the most reliable weapons in the SGC’s arsenal. In the 9 years (zats weren’t intro’d till the end of season 1) of SG1’s run where they’ve been used, I can’t remember a single instance where they “failed” (broke down) or ran out of energy (ammo) like you’re suggesting. It’s a much more reliable weapon than P90’s and handguns (which often ran out of bullets or can mechanically break…. moving parts) which seems to be standard issue for SG1/SGA teams so I don’t buy the “they’re unreliable” argument. Zats would make the perfect sidearm weapon for an SG team.

(off topic) interesting enough, in Season 9 episode “the scourge” I thought it was convenient that Sam and Teal'c (who usually has a zat sidearm) were armed with a pistol sidearm for that one mission.

Availability: that’s probably not an issue anymore. Giving Atlantis expedition 100 (or even just 25 for "active/on duty" personel) zats (for the security force) is probably more than within the abilities of the SGC.

Functionality: see my comment above in regards to the wraith. as for others, there’s only been a few instances where zats were ineffective, most of which was not the fault of the weapon.

Kull armer: bullets were just as ineffective
Replicators: bullets more effective but only against spiders (we’ve yet to see in SGA)
Shields: bullets were just as ineffective

P90’s and standard military gear crossed (evan dell laptops) over from SG1 to Atlantis so there’s no reason that zats couldn’t.

The only real reason for zats not being on Atlantis is because of the writers wanting to keep the two series apart. Although with the end of SG1, a zat crossover wouldn’t be as intrusive if SG1 was no longer a running series.

Major Tyler
February 9th, 2007, 08:34 PM
I disagree. We don’t know if they do or not and to go out and say that they absolutely won’t is a bit premature. If the Wraith had regenerative abilities so effective that rendered them immune in the way you would suggest, than wraith stunners would have no affect on them. We already know that is not true.The Wraith stunners work on a different principle than zats. Zats work on the principle of cumulative effect, increasing the disruption on a target's nervous system with every shot. Wraith stunners work on a principle of total body paralysis, which includes the muscular system, along with intense neural suppression.

Plus TPTB flat-out told us that zats don't work on Wraith...

pliepl
February 10th, 2007, 06:15 PM
The Wraith stunners work on a different principle than zats. Zats work on the principle of cumulative effect, increasing the disruption on a target's nervous system with every shot. Wraith stunners work on a principle of total body paralysis, which includes the muscular system, along with intense neural suppression.

“…work on a principle of total body paralysis, which includes the muscular system, along with intense neural suppression.”

Aren’t you describing a zat hit (first shot) there as well? The stun portion of the two weapons work in the same manner you’ve described yet you’re trying to argue there’s no way the zat’s can stun a wraith even though a wraith stunner can. As far as I can remember, when a subject is shot with a zat, (s)he freezes (“total body paralysis”), collapses(“includes the muscular system”), and passes out (“intense neural suppression”). Not as eloquently put as you have for the description of the wraith stunner, but it’s describing the same effects.

They’re both stun weapons (zat more destructive after the first hit) meant to incapacitate a target by disrupting the victims electrical system. The difference being the zat can be lethal/destructive after the first shot (or cumulative effect as you put it).


Plus TPTB flat-out told us that zats don't work on Wraith...

Could you provide the source for this, I did a search and couldn’t find were that was mentioned.

I’m more inclined to believe that the writers didn’t want to “crossover” between the two series than just simply consider it not working.

Major Tyler
February 10th, 2007, 08:13 PM
“…work on a principle of total body paralysis, which includes the muscular system, along with intense neural suppression.”

Aren’t you describing a zat hit (first shot) there as well?Nope. A single shot from a zat doesn't do anything else besides overwhelm a subject's nervous system and cause pain (pain that often results in unconsciousness). It doesn't affect any other part of the body. The Wraith stunner, on the other hand, doesn't overwhelm the nervous system, it suppresses it. Try to draw the distinction by imagining putting out a fire by smothering it with a heavy blanket (stunner), and putting a fire out with an extinguisher (zat). The stunner also paralyzes a subjects muscle tissue, preventing them from moving even if they are still conscious (the paralysis lingers long after the other effects have worn off). Zats cause no such paralysis.
Could you provide the source for this, I did a search and couldn’t find were that was mentioned.Unfortunately I don't know where the specific quote is. All I know is that it's on GateWorld somewhere but I'm not too keen on sifting through the "Ask Joe" and "Ask Martin" threads to find it. I admit the burden of proof is on me, but I hope you trust that I wouldn't resort to bald-faced lying on such a trivial matter.
I’m more inclined to believe that the writers didn’t want to “crossover” between the two series than just simply consider it not working.This is very likely the "out-of-story" answer, but most people seek the "in-story" answer to such questions. One could answer every post with "because TPTB say so" but that's a cop-out, and not particularly fun. :cool:

pliepl
February 11th, 2007, 09:20 PM
Nope. A single shot from a zat doesn't do anything else besides overwhelm a subject's nervous system and cause pain (pain that often results in unconsciousness). It doesn't affect any other part of the body. The Wraith stunner, on the other hand, doesn't overwhelm the nervous system, it suppresses it. Try to draw the distinction by imagining putting out a fire by smothering it with a heavy blanket (stunner), and putting a fire out with an extinguisher (zat). The stunner also paralyzes a subjects muscle tissue, preventing them from moving even if they are still conscious (the paralysis lingers long after the other effects have worn off). Zats cause no such paralysis.

Often? Don’t you mean always? The only instance where that wouldn’t apply was on subjects immune to the zats (through the use of technology or other means; replicators, Kull armor, shields, that one energy based entity that inhabited Carter in S4, etc). I’m not arguing with the operational nature of either weapon, just your interpretation. The zats affect the body’s electrical systems (which would also explain it’s ability to neutralize some electronics as well), which pretty much affects the entire body hence the loss of muscle control, pain, and loss of consciousness. Like I said already, this covers everything you mentioned about the wraith stunner; total body paralysis, muscular system, neural suppression.

Your body’s electrical system is the foundation of your ability to move, interact or even live. Obviously the zat only affect voluntary systems or otherwise a victim would die with one shot (second consecutive shot probably affects involuntary systems too hence death). As for the wraith stunner causing a much longer paralysis even after the subject regains consciousness, that’s debatable since I remember John being shot in “The Rising” and he was moving around fine after regaining consciousness. Now if you get shot with the stunner and a Wraith feed on you, that’s a different story. Obviously the paralysis is going to last a lot longer.

The wraith stunner is a weapon meant to neutralize a target (and probably keep it neutralize long enough) so that the wraith can feed on it. The zat is meant to neutralize a target and cause great pain in the process. Both work on a similar principal.


Unfortunately I don't know where the specific quote is. All I know is that it's on GateWorld somewhere but I'm not too keen on sifting through the "Ask Joe" and "Ask Martin" threads to find it. I admit the burden of proof is on me, but I hope you trust that I wouldn't resort to bald-faced lying on such a trivial matter.

Your truthfulness isn’t what I’m questioning, just your interpretation. Lets not forget that writers do have a large amount of leeway when it comes to story telling. An instance of this is the inability to beam through shields (S9 Off the Grid) although we know that isn’t always the case since it’s been done on both SG1 (S10 Flesh and Blood… team beamed from the hatek about to crash into the Ori ship which you'll see with the collision the hatek was shielded) and SGA (S03 First Strke… none essential personnel beamed to Apollo with an active city shield). Whatever the story calls for is what the writers will go with.

Mr Prophet
February 11th, 2007, 11:25 PM
Often? Don’t you mean always?

Klorel was conscious enough to be questioned and Jack has shrugged off a zat blast at least twice, once (Paradise Lost) without recourse to smelling salts.

Major Tyler
February 12th, 2007, 05:01 AM
Often? Don’t you mean always?There are quote a few instances (especially in season two) where the zat only caused pain in a subject with a high constitution.
The zats affect the body’s electrical systems, which pretty much affects the entire body hence the loss of muscle control, pain, and loss of consciousness.Nervous system and electrical system aren't precisely the same thing...just because someone isn't moving, doesn't man that they can't; they are simply unconscious. Zats do not, and never have, caused muscular paralysis. Since you seem convinced that they do, I then propose that the burden of proof shifts to you to give me examples (episodes/scenes).
As for the wraith stunner causing a much longer paralysis even after the subject regains consciousness, that’s debatable since I remember John being shot in “The Rising” and he was moving around fine after regaining consciousness.And yet, in "Suspicion" McKay was drooling from his mouth, barely able to speak when he got shot, and in "The Siege" when the intruding Wraith shot John, he was equally as paralyzed (while still awake).

My only response to the "Rising" example you gave is that we don't know how long Sheppard had been recovering from that shot, or if the Queen did something to help him recover so she could interrogate him more effectively (you can't talk or kneel if your tongue is busted). The exception does not always prove the rule.
Your truthfulness isn’t what I’m questioning, just your interpretation.It's difficult to interpret the sentence "Zats don't work on Wraith" any other way.

pliepl
February 12th, 2007, 08:33 AM
Klorel was conscious enough to be questioned and Jack has shrugged off a zat blast at least twice, once (Paradise Lost) without recourse to smelling salts.

Klorel wasn’t but Skara was (I’m assuming you’re referring to S1E21). The shot effectively disabled Klorel for a bit allowing Jack to talk to Skara (that is until Klorel regained consciousness/control).

Jack was never shot in S6E15. Maybourne shot Carter and O’Neill fell back/down when he was shot at (you can see the beam/bolt hit the wall behind him if you put the scene in slow motion). Jack being revived in S4E19 with some sort of stimulant (or whatever it was, I don’t remember it mentioned exactly what it was) is an anomaly needed to satisfy the plot (of him having residual charge from the zat hit to ward off the creatures while he made his way to the gate).



There are quote a few instances (especially in season two) where the zat only caused pain in a subject with a high constitution.

Such as…? I’m talking about regular occurrences, not anomalies (writers bending the rules to serve the scene/plot like Mr. Prophet attempted to point out).


Nervous system and electrical system aren't precisely the same thing...just because someone isn't moving, doesn't man that they can't; they are simply unconscious. Zats do not, and never have, caused muscular paralysis. Since you seem convinced that they do, I then propose that the burden of proof shifts to you to give me examples (episodes/scenes).

I never said they were, I just said that the zats affect the body’s electrical system… meaning every part of the body that needs voluntary electrical impulses gets affected. As already mentioned, the amount of time the affects from either weapon take to wear off is debatable since it’s not explicitly been established in either series.

Muscular paralysis is at the time the subject is shot (with the zat) hence the collapse of the subject since they no longer have control over their muscles. Pain alone wouldn't cause this. I never said it had to remain through the subject’s unconscious state nor after they’ve regained consciousness. It’s not permanent but rather temporary (to disable the subject).


And yet, in "Suspicion" McKay was drooling from his mouth, barely able to speak when he got shot, and in "The Siege" when the intruding Wraith shot John, he was equally as paralyzed (while still awake).

My only response to the "Rising" example you gave is that we don't know how long Sheppard had been recovering from that shot, or if the Queen did something to help him recover so she could interrogate him more effectively (you can't talk or kneel if your tongue is busted). The exception does not always prove the rule.

That’s because he was shot in the mouth (or at least in that general region since it’s hard to pinpoint exactly where even with slow motion). John on the other hand wasn’t, the effects of the shot he received probably hadn’t worn off in the next scene when the wraith was over him about to feed. I doubt it took more than a few minutes (if that) for the wraith to walk from the door (where he shot at) to where John had collapse.


It's difficult to interpret the sentence "Zats don't work on Wraith" any other way.

It’s not so hard if you consider that a writer has freedom to present things in whatever manner suites the story/plot and introduce anomalies should the need arise.

The Wraith are an organic race, if they’re not immune to their own energy weapons, it’s not believable that they would be immune to a similar energy weapon.

Mr Prophet
February 12th, 2007, 09:23 AM
Klorel wasn’t but Skara was (I’m assuming you’re referring to S1E21). The shot effectively disabled Klorel for a bit allowing Jack to talk to Skara (that is until Klorel regained consciousness/control).

Not sure that this dilutes the point, which is that targets are not always rendered unconscious. It was, after all, Skaara's body that was hit.

cLa
February 12th, 2007, 12:51 PM
They used Zats in the return part 2.

:sheppard: :ronan: :teyla: :mckay: :weir: :beckett:
Yeah.
Not to mention like Caldwell and Gambit said they have wraith stunners.

pliepl
February 12th, 2007, 06:27 PM
Not sure that this dilutes the point, which is that targets are not always rendered unconscious. It was, after all, Skaara's body that was hit.

A body controlled and enhanced by a symbiote, not exactly textbook example of regular victims. You have two sentient beings inhabiting the same body. Can you deny that Klorel was in control (when he was shot) and the one that was disabled and rendered unconsciousness? S4E20 is another example of a similar anomaly where Carter’s body was inhabited by an energy being who was not affected by the zat (one shot didn’t do anything to it but two zat blasts did kill the entity but not before allowing Carter’s consciousness to transfer to the base computer… though I still find that hard to believe those computers could have stored Carter's knowledge and consciousness but that’s a different matter).

And I already did state there were exceptions (or anomalies to support the plot) as well if you bothered to read the entire statement…

”Often? Don’t you mean always? The only instance where that wouldn’t apply was on subjects immune to the zats (through the use of technology or other means; replicators, Kull armor, shields, that one energy based entity that inhabited Carter in S4, etc).”

None of the anomalies shown for the zat on SG1 apply to the wraith; they don’t have armor to protect them from energy weapons nor are they 2 separate beings in one body.


Yeah.
Not to mention like Caldwell and Gambit said they have wraith stunners.

Ya. It just seems weird that they wouldn’t use such a resource at their disposal. I guess it would give our hero too much of an advantage in the writers eyes. It’s not as if having zats on SG1 really tipped the balance but I guess in the zat’s case, it’s a matter of crossover, although with the end of SG1, that shouldn’t be a roadblock anymore.

UlsterBob
February 19th, 2008, 01:54 PM
As said before, the zats may have little effect on the Wraith. Originally, Martouf was meant to survive two hits in "Divide and Conquer."

As Midway shows - they're quite effective against the Wraith!!

josh
February 19th, 2008, 04:47 PM
atlantis is its own show... im glad they dont have zats because it would be too much like sg1. i love sg1 more than anything dont get me wrong but its good to see new tech... like the wraith stunners

Dark lord me
February 19th, 2008, 05:16 PM
Why why why do people bring back dead topics (liek last post before you two was over a year ago On topic yay zats vs wraith sweetness noee for Ronan to sneak some back

Cpt.McLane
February 20th, 2008, 04:55 AM
Did you not wonder why the Atlantis expedition brought no zat guns with them? They seem to have an effect on the wraith, so why don´t they use them as standard weapon for the Field OPS teams?

a6346
February 20th, 2008, 05:25 AM
yeah ive often wondered this theyd be very effective 2 shots will kill almost anything so should do with a wraith plus the no need for ammo and we can get plenty of them from the jafa seems stupid why we havent got them i thought the same thing from the first season but the writers dont want wraith to go down so easy even though now a single round from a p90 can kill em (and it has done ive seen it).

is very stupid.

The Doctor
February 20th, 2008, 05:45 AM
This question has been askes soooo many times before.

Simple answer: Zats are an SG1 thing, that's why they don't have them on Atlantis.
Doesn't make sense persé, but that's how it is...

VSHARMA
February 20th, 2008, 05:52 AM
^^ Yep. Thats it. Would be sweet to see a Wraith killed with a Staff Weapon however.:cool: Striaght in the back. Jaffa style

the blackheart
February 20th, 2008, 06:01 AM
we should have them in atlantis,finally get rid of the wraith, you knwo like in the early seasons of sg1, 1 shot stunned, 2 killed and three vapourised, we could just vapourise the wraith. That isnt going to happen because its too easy but it would be cool

Zatnikitelman
February 21st, 2008, 03:41 PM
Yes, I doubt there is anyone else who advocates the use of the Zatnikitel in Atlantisstronger than me. If the writers or someone said they wouldn't affect Wraith, they just shot themselves in the foot (with a Zatnikitel :P) with Midway.

Ancient122
February 21st, 2008, 05:37 PM
They have been shot twice by Shepherd:

1. the dude who was going to see Laundry
2. Sergent Syler working on the jumper

So... Shepherd should still have it (to my knowledge)

jhkplaya888
February 21st, 2008, 05:52 PM
yes why dont they have it, they are effective proven by the last ep of alantis...

Runner690
February 21st, 2008, 06:51 PM
They used zatts in Midway but that was because teal'c took it off the dead airman in the hall.

But other then that nope they only use good old wraith tech.

they work better when comes to putting foes down good and cold.

SoulReaver
February 21st, 2008, 07:31 PM
I was about to say that to have more zats they'd have to be able to make more of them in the 1st place, and that reverse-engineering such an advanced weapon is surely way beyond earth science......when I remembered those handy asgard matter replicators

yup, no excuse this time. they should be producing zats by the hundreds


unless...


unless those matter replicators can only duplicate "elementary" stuff...

123NotIt
February 21st, 2008, 08:48 PM
the matter converter was seen to make the first replicator disruptor. don't think that's "elementary." they just won't let us make too many things with them yet.

as far as to the effectiveness of zats. they are good, but they were an SG1 thing. so they haven't imported those over to SGA. captured wraith stunners do the job nicely. in addition the whole 1 shot stun, 2 shot kill, 3 shot disintegrate thing hasn't been done in a long time. apparently they decided that was too much and depowered them or something.

SoulReaver
February 21st, 2008, 08:56 PM
actually the "3-shot & disintegrate" thing was officially retconned by the writers themselves

dboy-2007
February 22nd, 2008, 05:32 AM
there are no zats in atlantis because they are an sg1 thing. Although i would like to see a wraith getting shot with a staff weapon i'll probably never see it happen. =[

wise one
February 22nd, 2008, 06:16 AM
probaly so that to keep atlantis on its on show not bringin in sg-1 thats why they use wraith stunners on atlantis and when in the sgc zats are used since sg-1 is shown to have them as standard

that and it tells the viewers if they just tuned in on the telly where they might be zats there on earth, wraith stunners they are in atlantis side of things

Cap.Dylan Hunt
February 22nd, 2008, 12:27 PM
I think they ought to make a whole bunch of copies of Ronons gun. Then it could be an Atlantis thing. His gun is just as good as a zat. I would rather have it then a zat. IMO.

Zatnikitelman
February 22nd, 2008, 05:41 PM
*minor S5 spoilers*
You guys know the new person coming over (not detailing cause of spoilers)? If they are from the MW, why couldn't their team have Zatnikitels? More as a one-off or a special thing using P-90's as standard.

sajukar
February 22nd, 2008, 07:55 PM
i dont think that zats are not as effective as the wraith stun weapons because the zat can kill and i dont think that the wraith stun weapons can kill

dboy-2007
February 23rd, 2008, 01:13 AM
i dont think that the wraith stun weapons can kill

I would'nt be to sure i recon if you shot someone enough times with it they would die. Don't get me wrong it would be easier with a zat but it would probably be possible with a wraith stunner as well.

jonos101
February 23rd, 2008, 02:48 AM
I would'nt be to sure i recon if you shot someone enough times with it they would die. Don't get me wrong it would be easier with a zat but it would probably be possible with a wraith stunner as well.

or u could just beat them to death with it :D

sajukar
February 23rd, 2008, 12:46 PM
but we have never seen a wraith stun weapon kill anyone

Ancient122
February 23rd, 2008, 07:45 PM
ZATs and Wraith stunners seam to be the only energy weapons used on a regular basis. Reverse engineering a ZAT would be cool though. Just remember
1 shot stuns, 2 shots kill, 3 shots disintegrates, 4 shots makes the thing appear again;)

Charon
February 26th, 2008, 06:06 AM
Has anyone discussed the possibility of using sodan staff weapons on Atlantis? Smaller, easier to stick around hall corners and guarantees a knock-down (in less than 10 shots, vs. the P-90). Wall of lead vs. Wall of plasma. You tell me.

February 26th, 2008, 01:58 PM
They used zatts in Midway but that was because teal'c took it off the dead airman in the hall.

But other then that nope they only use good old wraith tech.

they work better when comes to putting foes down good and cold.

The thing about Teal'c using the zats on the wraith, he only shot them once sooooo...they SHOULD still be alive. That being the case, what are we doing with these live wraith?

On a side note...if a single zat blast took them down, it seems to be far more effective on them than a P90. :mckay:

Col_Ross_Buchan_SGC/SGA
April 14th, 2008, 04:28 AM
How come we havent seen any Zats on SGA, there ten times better than wraith stunners so why not take some from MW and bring them to PG?.

blitzsnake
April 14th, 2008, 04:58 AM
Because Robert Cooper regretted bringing zats to the show. So they wanted to be free of them in SGA. But they use it in "Return part 2".

wise one
April 14th, 2008, 05:43 AM
they use them in midway aswell

Cam_Mitchell
April 14th, 2008, 05:45 AM
Because Robert Cooper regretted bringing zats to the show. So they wanted to be free of them in SGA. But they use it in "Return part 2".

Why didn't he like Zats...?

Bray
April 14th, 2008, 05:48 AM
Because of the whole, 1 shot stuns, 2 kills ANYTHING and 3 disintergrates.

In episode 200 they take the p*ss out of them :D

Cam_Mitchell
April 14th, 2008, 05:50 AM
Because of the whole, 1 shot stuns, 2 kills ANYTHING and 3 disintergrates.

In episode 200 they take the p*ss out of them :D

So why would you need staff weapons...?

Bray
April 14th, 2008, 05:58 AM
Exactly, the zat is just far too powerful, I mean it kills ANYTHING! and I think in episode 200 they take the p*ss about it disintergrating a planet or something, and a 4th shot reintergrating someone.

(It has been a long time since I saw it though so I may be wrong)

seinfeldsg1
April 14th, 2008, 07:25 AM
Exactly, the zat is just far too powerful, I mean it kills ANYTHING! and I think in episode 200 they take the p*ss about it disintergrating a planet or something, and a 4th shot reintergrating someone.

(It has been a long time since I saw it though so I may be wrong)

They dont kill kull warriors:)

Bray
April 14th, 2008, 07:29 AM
I bet they would if they caught a kull warrior getting changed...or going to the toilet :D

VSHARMA
April 14th, 2008, 08:19 AM
Oh#
My#
Gods#

This thread has been done 100+:(

DB10
August 18th, 2008, 12:32 AM
Why don't they have Zat Guns at Atlantis? In Midway at Cheyenne Mountain u saw they were very effective against The Wraith. Teal'c fired at the Wraith with a Zat and it worked. Its weird, because at the SGC u see most of the soldiers with Zats as standard equipment and at Atlantis u dont see anyone with them. They also took P90s with them form Earth? In my opinion its weird they didn't took Zats with them.

In SG-1 u saw how good the Zats are and u can spare bullets. They need Zats, bacause they are handy and awesome.

:tealcanime44: :wraith:

wizz_kid_sid
August 18th, 2008, 01:40 AM
I've been wondering that myself.

But in Atlantis, I suppose they make up for the Zats with the Wraith Stunners. They have arm lockers full of them. Plus they're not like the Zats where 1 shot stuns, 2 shot kills and 3 disintergrates. They just keep on stunning.

Xaeden
August 18th, 2008, 02:08 AM
There are a couple of production reasons for it that I've heard floated around. But, as far an in-show reason goes, I've always speculated that the issue is simply that they don't have enough to go around. They can't make their own so they only have those that they have recovered from offworld. Which is probably happening less and less now that they're not fighting the Jaffa on a regular basis. So unless they start trading with the Jaffa for them (I'm not sure what the Jaffa would want from Earth that Earth would be willing to give though) they wouldn't be able to send over enough for widespread use in Atlantis. At best maybe they could spare a handful, but then they'd probably just go into the weapons locker until they were specifically needed for something and they already have stunners stored for that purpose (Mckay has also been seen carrying a stunner is pack on one occasion).

General Catflap
August 18th, 2008, 03:03 AM
also if there are no zats at atlantis then an enemy cant get 1 to use against the atlantis team. With just having Wraith stunners, at worst the atlantis crew can only get stunned!

suicidal_tool
August 18th, 2008, 04:30 AM
still, more of a bleedthrough with weapons and tech would be nice.
For example...we have had the Ancient database for 5 seasons yet i dont see much new tech out of it. Zats in atlantis would be a nice bleedthrough and perhaps some Wraith tech in anymore SG1 films?

DB10
August 18th, 2008, 04:51 AM
also if there are no zats at atlantis then an enemy cant get 1 to use against the atlantis team. With just having Wraith stunners, at worst the atlantis crew can only get stunned!

But its the same for all weapons, like the P90s. I don't see the difference, its the same for all the weapons.

But it sucks the production won't let the Zats in. The idea of suicidal_tool wasn't bad. Some Wraith stun guns would be also handy for SG-1, if they wanna capture someone and they want to be sure they don't kill that person.

queen_hathor
August 18th, 2008, 05:07 AM
I thought about this during the 1st couple of seasons of Atlantis & came to the conclusion that they wouldn't want Goa'uld tech in another universe. 1st off, how would they explain it? The Wraith can easily torture information from people, and that would give out more info on Earth.

Also, I would imagine that the actual stunning part is the same technology (and with Ronon's gun)... then you have the 2nd & 3rd zat shots like someone's said. They would actually be a great weapon against the Wraith.

NKDietrich
August 18th, 2008, 05:58 AM
I imagine the reason is because they want the show to have its own look and feel. There is likely not any story-related reason, just a production one. No point in really speculating beyond that.

Gate Traveller
August 18th, 2008, 07:28 AM
Its for budget purposes.......

The IOA has cut the the funding of the SGC so much they have to scale back on everything and keep whatever they have in terms of alien weaponry for their own defense, cause unless they kill a Jaffa they ain't getting anymore ZATs.

They focus the funding on Atlantis now and defending it all costs, if the ZATS were ever really needed I'm sure Woolsey would make a call for some and get them ASAP.

I take it they never cracked the tech for those weapons? They can't make their own yet huh?

General Catflap
August 18th, 2008, 08:55 AM
But its the same for all weapons, like the P90s. I don't see the difference, its the same for all the weapons.

But it sucks the production won't let the Zats in. The idea of suicidal_tool wasn't bad. Some Wraith stun guns would be also handy for SG-1, if they wanna capture someone and they want to be sure they don't kill that person.

Very true!

tombombadil
August 18th, 2008, 09:00 AM
they want to keep the two shows fairly separate

topaz_bean
August 18th, 2008, 09:08 AM
Hmm, I always feel like stun guns are just too convenient. Someone bugging you but you're not absolutely sure they're bad guys? Stun 'em. One of your good guys possessed? Stun 'em. In the middle of a fight that our guys are definitely gonna lose but it would be a bit inconvenient if half of them were killed before the show got cancelled? Stun 'em.

Honestly, at least there would be a bit of peril or jeopardy if there was evidence that repeated stunnings over time had the potential for permanent damage or something. As it is, I prefer it if they generally have to rely on bullets because then our characters are required to actually think about the consequences of what they're about to do. Keller shooting that bloke in the leg in Missing. That was awesome.

Col. Frank Simmons
December 5th, 2008, 12:42 AM
I have just been re-watching Season One Stargate Atlantis episodes and they were using tazers to bring down the wraith. So I got to thinking they wouldn't have that problem with taking down wraiths if they had Zat guns. So why didn't the Atlantis team bring Zat guns? Surely after 7 + years Stargate Command would have enough in supply to spare. Can anyone help me out?

Osiristi
December 5th, 2008, 02:25 AM
This has been done to death:
http://forum.gateworld.net/showthread.php?t=57813
http://forum.gateworld.net/showthread.php?t=51736
http://forum.gateworld.net/showthread.php?t=3181

AscendedThor
December 5th, 2008, 03:19 AM
they don't need guns, they have a Ronon Dex

Mclean
December 5th, 2008, 06:33 AM
To give the show it's own feel. Zats are an SG1 weapon.

jds1982
December 5th, 2008, 06:40 AM
Because the SGC knew it would be a suicide mission, and they only sent people they wanted to get rid of. Why would they send something as useful as a zat when they knew they wouldn't get it back?

Crazedwraith
December 5th, 2008, 08:24 AM
They have used Zats on Atlantis, whenever they go back to Earth. Ala The Return or Midway.

Its strange they didn't let Sam have one in Season 4, since ever since Season 2 of SG-1 she's pretty much carried it has her standard sidearm. (presumably to emphasis her link to the Tok'Ra, for much the same reason as Teal'c carried Jaffa Weapons)

Merlin1701
December 5th, 2008, 10:48 AM
To give the show it's own feel. Zats are an SG1 weapon.
This is the real reason.
In later episodes they introduced the small wraith stunner as the PG version of the Zat.
http://www.gateworld.net/omnipedia/technology/graphics/wraithstunnerpistol.jpg

We have also a ancient stunner

http://www.gateworld.net/omnipedia/technology/graphics/handweaponancient.jpg

not very nice, i'm sure that you will agree!

and the asuran stun gun

http://www.gateworld.net/omnipedia/technology/graphics/pistolasuran.jpg

the best looking one IMO

Anon
December 5th, 2008, 12:10 PM
because each needs to have 2 main alien wep, the big rifle like wraith stunners, and the squirt gun type

major davis
December 5th, 2008, 02:32 PM
Becasue characters would go crazy trying to choose between zat guns or wraith stunners

rkgardner2003
August 25th, 2013, 03:03 PM
I've started to alternate my SG1 and SGA viewing and was watching them try and shoot wraith with puny Earth weapons. Once they were able to get things from the Milky Way, why didn't they send some zat guns? Wouldn't they have been better to battle the wraith with?

Anonmatel
August 25th, 2013, 03:34 PM
Possibly.... Maybe not. Zat guns were not all that powerful, there were plenty of instances where humans got hit with a Zat gun and kept on going.

seeing as Wraith can take full rounds of ammo and keep coming them one would assume they'd do the same...

I'd prefer Ronins gun on both the Wraith and the goa'uld personally.

Ripple in Space
August 25th, 2013, 05:53 PM
Possibly.... Maybe not. Zat guns were not all that powerful, there were plenty of instances where humans got hit with a Zat gun and kept on going.

seeing as Wraith can take full rounds of ammo and keep coming them one would assume they'd do the same...
Haven't seen "Midway"?

AtlantisStargate
August 25th, 2013, 09:04 PM
It wouldn't be as effective as the wraith stunners since we've seen how Zat's kill the second time, which would be a pain if you wanted to capture a wraith with a Zat.

Quizziard
August 25th, 2013, 09:06 PM
Even within the SG-1 teams, they don't seem to have too many zats. It's an alien weapon, which means capturing and maintaining them. Easier to stick to your own.

thekillman
August 25th, 2013, 11:01 PM
I've started to alternate my SG1 and SGA viewing and was watching them try and shoot wraith with puny Earth weapons. Once they were able to get things from the Milky Way, why didn't they send some zat guns? Wouldn't they have been better to battle the wraith with?

This discussion AGAIN? i've seen it come up a half dozen times.

Zats were not in atlantis because they're in short supply. And since wraith, at least early on, were bullet sponges i doubt zats would have any effect anyway.

As you probably noticed, after a while the Atlantis team started to use wraith stunners which makes the need for zats obsolete anyway.

Crazedwraith
August 26th, 2013, 12:48 AM
The out of universe explanation is that they wanted to keep the two shows reasonably distinct to new viewers.

in-universe, it's more difficult. They are shown to have substantial number of zats. Considering they even supplied the jaffa rebellion with some at one iirc and Sg- frequently carried them in their packs as back up weapons. (Sam and Teal'c carried them as their normal side arms but they always had enough for all them to have one if they need to go non-lethal)

rkgardner2003
August 26th, 2013, 02:59 PM
This discussion AGAIN? i've seen it come up a half dozen times.

Zats were not in atlantis because they're in short supply. And since wraith, at least early on, were bullet sponges i doubt zats would have any effect anyway.

As you probably noticed, after a while the Atlantis team started to use wraith stunners which makes the need for zats obsolete anyway.

Sorry to be repetitive, have not seen addressed before..(only on here a year) If I remember right weren't the Jaffa also hard to kill at first but remarkably easier to take down by later seasons, sort of like the wraith were so hard to kill in season 1 but seemed to go down easier with bullets in later seasons...I do remember the stunners...true.

Anonmatel
August 27th, 2013, 02:35 AM
Haven't seen "Midway"?
I have

KEK
August 27th, 2013, 09:00 AM
Then you've seen a Wraith get stunned with a Zat.

destiny khan
August 27th, 2013, 09:17 AM
Zats are the best covert weapon of them all. 3 shots vaporize the target, who won't want that? We should not go into "what ifs" in this series otherwise there are blunders beyond belief in every episode in all the 17 seasons.

Ripple in Space
August 27th, 2013, 10:05 AM
why didn't they send some zat guns? Wouldn't they have been better to battle the wraith with?Possibly.... Maybe not. Zat guns were not all that powerful, there were plenty of instances where humans got hit with a Zat gun and kept on going.

seeing as Wraith can take full rounds of ammo and keep coming them one would assume they'd do the same...Haven't seen "Midway"?I have

Cool, so you're just having some fun messing with rkgardner2003 then? I ask because as rkgardner2003 was referencing, Zats stunned the Wraith without a problem in "Midway"...

Jper
August 27th, 2013, 01:59 PM
Sorry to be repetitive, have not seen addressed before..(only on here a year) If I remember right weren't the Jaffa also hard to kill at first but remarkably easier to take down by later seasons, sort of like the wraith were so hard to kill in season 1 but seemed to go down easier with bullets in later seasons...I do remember the stunners...true.

There's an in-universe in-episode explanation for that. IIRC Carter somewhere mentions that the bullets were apdapted with something (don't remember what) to better penetrate Goa'uld armor. Or something like that.

Also, there's also a logical explanation why the Wraith encountered early on in season 1 of SGA were easier to kill than the latter ones. It has to do with the amount of feeding the Wraith have had. A Wraith that wakes up from a long hibernation period without feeding (especially if there's not enough food when they are then all suddenly awake) is significantly weaker than a Wraith that has just fed or lives in an era with plenty of sustenance (read: strong, healthy humans to feed on). I don't know for sure, but I think this is explained in the series, if not at least you can deduct this from events and dialogue in the series with a lot of certainty. :) Plus, isn't there something about the fact that breeding (inbreeding) of the Wraith over the last 1,000 years or so has made them significantly weaker...

:)

Aesop
August 27th, 2013, 04:43 PM
Possibly.... Maybe not. Zat guns were not all that powerful, there were plenty of instances where humans got hit with a Zat gun and kept on going.

seeing as Wraith can take full rounds of ammo and keep coming them one would assume they'd do the same...

I'd prefer Ronins gun on both the Wraith and the goa'uld personally.

Wasn't it said a second shot from a Zat would kill the target and that a third shot would completely vaporize them? I think this was in the first or second season... I think I heard the third shot function was something the writer's regretted introducing, but it's still there.

Anonmatel
August 29th, 2013, 03:29 AM
I think the main problem with Zat guns in general was that became more powerful and less powerful whenever the writers wanted them to. Without referencing it, the episode prodigy. Where Jack took a shot from a Zat then went for a run.

Apparently all Jaffa children can handle one shot with a Zat according to Teal'c.

The vapourizing of the target came from the finale of the first season. Then barely never seen gain.

Ripple in Space
August 29th, 2013, 10:07 AM
Apparently all Jaffa children can handle one shot with a Zat according to Teal'c.
Teal'c was referring to a Zat not being lethal to Jaffa children. All policemen in America are meant to be able to take a taser jolt and/or mace spray, but that doesn't mean they aren't incapacitated by them--they're just aware of the effects.

jaseman45
October 27th, 2013, 06:48 PM
Does anybody know why zat guns werent used in Atlantis at all. Even in the beginning when they didnt have wraith stunners they never had zats.

ZRFTS
October 28th, 2013, 01:27 AM
I'm guessing because they wanted to save the Zat guns for SG1; while I do think that Atlantis could of used the guns more than SG1, SG1 goes across the known galaxy and gets in more danger than the Atlantis crew.

I will say that if I was in charge of the SGC, I'd give Atlantis Zat Guns.

rushy
October 28th, 2013, 02:08 AM
They didn't find use or room for them.

rkgardner2003
October 28th, 2013, 03:20 AM
I just asked a similar question a couple months ago!

http://forum.gateworld.net/threads/87810-Zat-guns-for-Atlantis

destiny khan
October 29th, 2013, 10:36 AM
Everything like these which do not make sense(there are thousands like these) are all the fault of writers and were plot devices for story telling. There are many things like krull warrior armors and sarcophagus which could have easily been reverse engineered as we had the databases of atlantis and asgards... come to think of it iron man suits could have easily been made and with better tech than what tony stark did(intertial dampeners would go a long way in combating punches from people like hulk or marvel's thor). How could they not reverse engineer stuff like sarchophagus and the hand held healing devices or atleast use them. A little naquadah in the blood is hardly an obstacle for people who are intergalactic travelers now.

Crazedwraith
October 29th, 2013, 02:16 PM
Everything like these which do not make sense(there are thousands like these) are all the fault of writers and were plot devices for story telling.
This is much is true.



There are many things like krull warrior armors and sarcophagus which could have easily been reverse engineered as we had the databases of atlantis and asgards... come to think of it iron man suits could have easily been made and with better tech than what tony stark did(intertial dampeners would go a long way in combating punches from people like hulk or marvel's thor). How could they not reverse engineer stuff like sarchophagus and the hand held healing devices or atleast use them. A little naquadah in the blood is hardly an obstacle for people who are intergalactic travelers now.
A lot of this is silly. Reverse Engineering is not as easy as you think it is. Especially of things like magic healing fields that no-one has a clue of the physics of how they work.

-
Now, the out-of-universe explanation is simple; they didn't want too much crossover between Sg-1 and Atlantis to keep the two shows visual distinct for the viewers. Who may only be casual viewers and not remember things like zats from a show they may or may not have watched.

In-universe is harder to explain. The SGC certainly had a lot of zats. Enough that Sg-1 at least routinely carried enough for everyone in their backpacks. And they had enough that random guard in the corridor had one in 'Midway'

The only reason I can think of is that in early SG-1 they often made the assumption that the Ancients fought the goa'uld and their tech didn't get along with the goa'uld stuff. (Like Fifth Race. Though in retrospect it seems more like it was to do with the ATA gene and they didn't realise)

So maybe they thought Atlantis might have internal security systems that would be set off by things like zats appearing. It's not a great reason but its the only one I can come up with.

destiny khan
October 30th, 2013, 05:03 AM
Plenty of these things are reverse engineer-able. The hand held devices are not used by sgc as not everyone has naquadah in their blood. But i think if someone can introduce an artificial gene by using a retro virus then a slight bit of naquadah is not an issue. They could have saved so many lives with the hand held devices alone, even if a sarcophagus is too much for their scientific knowledge to handle. Zats in atlantis won't really set of much alarms as they had the ability to rewrite a lot of fail safes and parts of the OS that was operating the atlantis mainframe. That is a non issue. I would think a gun which can vaporize something in 3 shots is a lot more useful in covert ops and the sound can easily be masked if it is too much trouble. It is all up to the writers really and they made things up along the way and that is why there are so many things that do not make sense. We are just like goauld now, scavengers, who gathered tech rather than inventing it.

Crazedwraith
October 30th, 2013, 11:10 AM
Plenty of these things are reverse engineer-able. The hand held devices are not used by sgc as not everyone has naquadah in their blood. But i think if someone can introduce an artificial gene by using a retro virus then a slight bit of naquadah is not an issue. They could have saved so many lives with the hand held devices alone, even if a sarcophagus is too much for their scientific knowledge to handle.

Why? The concept of a dna retrovirius and being able to survive with heavy metals in your blood stream are entirely unrelated. Because they can do one does not mean they can do the other.

Anyway, i realised after I last posted that I was being entirely fair. healing devices are not inherently any more or less likely to be reverse engineer-able that what they manage to reversed engineer. Artificial Gravity, inertial dampeners, hyperdrive. Etc. They shouldn't have been able to reverse engineer those as easily as they did either. It is like you aid, mainly a function of what the writers wanted them to have. The real reason they didn't get healing stuff is would destroy the tension of the show if they had sarcophacii back at the base to raise the dead.

But to return my original point in this post. Healing rays etc. Are not based on the same principles as the things they did reverse engineer. So those no real reason to say that they must have been able to reverse engineered healers because they reverse engineered engines. Its like saying I must be able to figure out how an MRI machine works because i figured out a jet engine.



Zats in atlantis won't really set of much alarms as they had the ability to rewrite a lot of fail safes and parts of the OS that was operating the atlantis mainframe. That is a non issue. I would think a gun which can vaporize something in 3 shots is a lot more useful in covert ops and the sound can easily be masked if it is too much trouble. It is all up to the writers really and they made things up along the way and that is why there are so many things that do not make sense. We are just like goauld now, scavengers, who gathered tech rather than inventing it.

Well the Atlantis team didn't know they would be able to do that before they went to the city did they? But yeah its not a great explanation. Considering also, that the Atlantis was build long before the goa'uld was around and wouldn't have objected to zats anyway. (but again the characters may not have known that)

Of course its all up to the writers really. And of course they just make it up as they go. It's all they can do realistically. I already said some reasons why the writers didn't include zats in atlantis. But that doesn't help in figuring out why the characters did something in universe, is it?

destiny khan
October 30th, 2013, 11:21 AM
Yes you finally got my point, they reverse engineered and understood of things very very complex. They even started to get an understanding of nano tech for medical uses and would have ended up using natotech to build ships and effect repairs with them too(as was done in the series andromeda). I was actually talking about using goauld hand held devices rather than making their own. What i am saying is that common sense dictates many things but the the writers do not use them as the storylines would be far less interesting. I would love to see a stargate series a 100 year into the future when they will most probably be able to understand most things ancient and asgard. Goauld tech is pretty low compared to those so they won't be a problem by then. Sadly, no more good sci fi shows around.

roxics
January 7th, 2014, 09:17 PM
My girlfriend and I are rewatching Atlantis. I haven't seen it since it first aired and she has never seen it. So I have forgotten most of it. Which is fun when rewatching. We're nearly complete with season 3 and certain things keep bothering me. First and foremost is the lack of stun weapons. Shepard has to keep relying on Ronon to stun people.

Why was the Atlantis team not outfitted with Zat's from the start or some new hybrid weapon that is both energy weapon/firearm? Ronon has the most advanced gun, yet he seems to come from a civilization slightly less advanced than Earth was prior to the Stargate program.

One would think that after 8 years of SG teams traversing the galaxy and discovering cool new technology, they would have advanced their personal arms by the time of the Atlantis mission or at least carried Zat's as a backup weapon when stunning is needed.

At one point the team goes back to earth and returns with the anti replicator weapons. Pretty cool looking/functioning. But those are sadly short lived. So what is the insistence on the show creators to have SG teams keep using P90's on Atlantis? Even on SG1 is was fairly common practice to have a Zat on hand.

I understand that the gunpower weapons are useful against certain more advanced enemies who have systems in place to stop energy weapons. Which is why I think by this point a hybrid weapon could have been created.

Overall I am not a fan of the alien weapon design on Stargate. Either SG1 or Atlantis. I get that they are alien so they should look alien. But come on, everyone is speaking English on every planet anyway. We're willing to give a little here and there in suspending our disbelief. At least give them really cool props we can salivate over. The Zat is probably the worst looking of them all in my opinion. When I see stuff like the weapons from District 9 I can't help but think the creators of Stargate really fell short in what could have been very cool props. Props can make a huge impact. Just look at the light saber.

tomaso88
January 8th, 2014, 12:11 AM
Theres already a few threads like this but I'll answer anyways.

Why no zats in atlantis?
So the series differentiates its self from sg1, its a new series and they want to show off new things not have the same technology.

Why all aliens speak english?
They chose to do this because having different languages for each race wouldn't only be stressful for the characters in every episode, it would also be stressful for the audience having to see someone like daniel translate a language each episode, and they weren't as advance as say the earthlings on startrek who had technology to translate.


overall I think it's a matter of personal opinion, I thought the props looked fine in stargate though it did stress me when they used one prop again as another piece of technology, which is also reason to show that they didn't have a very big budget for props

roxics
January 8th, 2014, 03:49 AM
I wasn't asking why they all spoke English. I know why.

I get that they wanted to differentiate Atlantis but it still makes no logical sense from a story perspective.

Spimman
January 8th, 2014, 04:30 AM
I hope this doesn't cause it to get cancelled :eek:

destiny khan
January 8th, 2014, 09:31 AM
yes all of these things are problametic... e.g no use of goauld hand devices/sarcophagus or the memory device(to train people in days rather than 4 years or more in college or whatever)... why no use of advanced body armor like that of anubis's drones... there are so much more like that, but they never use it(not even in sg-1)... i find it better not to concentrate on these flaws and enjoy it, but it is hard to do as it is "Sci fi" that means, people who use your brain like to watch it and cannot see it as "mindless" fun like a michael bay movie... so in the end a scifi fan is irritated when the writers are not properly utilizing all the tools at their disposal to combat problems(as would happen in real life).... because i can give you a fool proof way of manufacturing zpms without a problem, and it is deceptively simple...

Starsaber
January 8th, 2014, 12:44 PM
I'm pretty sure they at least use Zats during "The Return" two parter.

Inquisitor
January 8th, 2014, 04:00 PM
I'm pretty sure they at least use Zats during "The Return" two parter.

Not in The Return, they don't work against replicators (they used ARGs).
They used zats in Midway though, because of Teal'c.

jelgate
January 8th, 2014, 04:07 PM
Not in The Return, they don't work against replicators (they used ARGs).
They used zats in Midway though, because of Teal'c.
They did use a zat on a SGC guard when shep stole a puddle jumper in the return

Inquisitor
January 8th, 2014, 09:07 PM
Ah yeah, the one with crutches. I was only thinking of the Wraith.

Chappas
January 20th, 2014, 05:54 AM
"First and foremost is the lack of stun weapons"

What about Wraith Stunners?

Railgun
January 22nd, 2014, 10:07 AM
There should be more use of alien hand weapons, most definitely.

The reason why I don't think that tech has come though is more about organisation and bureaucracy than anything else.

Earth likes to standardise on Earth made weapons. They produce the P90's, presumably cheaply and in mass quantities and have quite a stockpile of them. All armed forces are trained with these weapons providing a large pool of military personnel with the skills to use them correctly. So when they sent a team to Atlantis those are the weapons that they gave them.

Zats have to be procured off-world and although we probably have quite a few from the defeated Goa'uld, more large-scale/permanent supply would depend on trading them with the Tokra/Jaffa both of which we have tumultuous relations with. It would be bad to standardise on a weapon which we could not make and then fall out with the only source of that weapon. It's a security of supply issue.

StargateMillennium
June 22nd, 2014, 08:43 PM
There should be more use of alien hand weapons, most definitely.

I disagree. The only useful alien hand weapons they ever encountered were the particle magnum, zat, wraith stunner, TER, and intar. And the SGC/Atlantis adopted these weapons. The rest are crap. There's a thread about this. I explain why there.
http://forum.gateworld.net/threads/88990-Thoughts-on-energy-weapons
And the ones they have aren't for every situation. The zat/stunner is primarily for stunning and serves no purpose in a front line fight (and double zatting every single soldier is inefficient especially compared to the human ballistic weapons. Intar are training weapons.
TER are made for cloaked enemies (which aren't seen very often)
And they only have one particle magnum with them.

I think the stargate franchise should make more actually effective energy weapons.

Bladed
June 22nd, 2014, 09:15 PM
Jack explained it on one episode as he was training some off worlders. "Staff weapons are weapons of fear. Limited range, hard to aim, and nasty wounds to inspire fear. P90's are weapons of war easy to aim, easy to operate and designed to maximize effectiveness of your troops." In others words learning an alien weapon or any "new" type of weapon has it's learning curve to become proficient with it. Most Humans already have a basic understanding of firearms that humans have designed.

The Flyattractor
June 24th, 2014, 08:24 AM
Jack explained it on one episode as he was training some off worlders. "Staff weapons are weapons of fear. Limited range, hard to aim, and nasty wounds to inspire fear. P90's are weapons of war easy to aim, easy to operate and designed to maximize effectiveness of your troops." In others words learning an alien weapon or any "new" type of weapon has it's learning curve to become proficient with it. Most Humans already have a basic understanding of firearms that humans have designed.

........uh...I aint really seeing that much diff between a Staff and a 90. At least in the wound and range issues. It is a SUB-machine weapon and thus not really a "long range" weapon.

c0sm0s
July 3rd, 2014, 07:21 AM
The P-90 has a firing range of over 5,500 feet, admittedly with an effective firing range of 650-ish feet at fifteen rounds per second.
Staff weapons are mostly hip fired, don't seem to have a sight and fire seemingly once per two seconds.
If you want to blow a hole in a wall use a staff weapon.
If you want to shoot dudes use the P-50.
If you want to do both, take a P-90 and undersling a grenade launcher to it.
That said... we don't know how many shots you get with a staff so it might beat the P-90 in having lug around ammo.

StargateMillennium
July 3rd, 2014, 08:02 AM
The P-90 has a firing range of over 5,500 feet, admittedly with an effective firing range of 650-ish feet at fifteen rounds per second.
Staff weapons are mostly hip fired, don't seem to have a sight and fire seemingly once per two seconds.
If you want to blow a hole in a wall use a staff weapon.
If you want to shoot dudes use the P-50.
If you want to do both, take a P-90 and undersling a grenade launcher to it.
That said... we don't know how many shots you get with a staff so it might beat the P-90 in having lug around ammo.

Having an automatic weapon also is an advantage. You can spray in the general direction of your target. Firing in bursts is a form of spraying at the target. One shot might miss but another might hit. The slow firing staff weapon makes it hard to hit enemies that shoot back (might be a good hunting weapon). If the staff misses, all the jaffa can do is take cover and wait for it to be able to shoot again.

The other weakness is bulk. The staff weapons is huge and clunky. You'd have to carry a lot of P90 mags before getting the bulkiness of a staff.

LionHamster
April 28th, 2015, 11:14 PM
No episode images show the Atlantis team using zats, and there's no mention of them yet on SciFi's Atlantis site's tech section. They may have left zats out of Atlantis. For the most part, Atlantis won't deal with the Goa'uld, so in order to all new viewers to get into the show without having to know the history of SG-1 (namely, what zats are), they chose to exclude zats from the show.

Acctuly when they took atlantis form the reps they used zats while still in the sgc