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GateWorld
July 14th, 2006, 02:53 PM
<DIV ALIGN="center"><TABLE WIDTH="450" BORDER="0" CELLSPACING="0" CELLPADDING="7"><TR><TD><DIV ALIGN="left"><FONT FACE="Verdana, Arial, san-serif" SIZE="2" COLOR="#000000"><A HREF="http://www.gateworld.net/atlantis/s3/303.shtml"><IMG SRC="http://www.gateworld.net/atlantis/graphics/303.jpg" WIDTH="160" HEIGHT="120" ALIGN="right" HSPACE="10" VSPACE="2" BORDER="0" STYLE="border: 1px black solid" ALT="Visit the Episode Guide"></A><FONT SIZE="1" COLOR="#888888">ATLANTIS SEASON THREE</FONT>
<FONT SIZE="4"><A HREF="http://www.gateworld.net/atlantis/s3/303.shtml" STYLE="text-decoration: none">IRRESISTIBLE</A></FONT>
<FONT SIZE="1">EPISODE NUMBER - 303</FONT>
<IMG SRC="/images/clear.gif" WIDTH="1" HEIGHT="10" ALT="">
Sheppard's team meets an obnoxious man who is adored by all thanks to a secret that he carries -- and who has an unexpected affect on them.

<FONT SIZE="1" COLOR="#888888"><B><A HREF="http://www.gateworld.net/atlantis/s3/303.shtml">VISIT THE EPISODE GUIDE ></A></B>
SPOILERS! PHOTOS! AND MORE!</FONT></FONT></DIV></TD></TR></TABLE></DIV>

Merlin7
July 28th, 2006, 08:03 PM
I liked it.Simply because I went into it knowing it was supposed to be funny and nothing serious and I LOL at times. Lots of Shep moments and everyone got to act OOC so it was fun to watch.

and the HAIR comments were a hoot.

And the Beckett and Shep scene in the JUmper made me all kinds of happy. So...yeah. Liked this ep. Sateda looks awesome. ::Crosses fingers::

Bobthespirit
July 28th, 2006, 08:04 PM
What the hell. This guy is a serial rapist who enslaved an entire village and basically tried to rape Dr. Weir, and all they do is send him back to his planet to go on living his life, without the herb?

They should have sent him along on the next trip back to Earth to stand trial.

Major Gambit
July 28th, 2006, 08:04 PM
Great episode, pretty funny aswell


9/10


Beckett crying was hillarius!

Iguana775
July 28th, 2006, 08:06 PM
ugh....that was ghey. not even remotely good.

NowIWillDestroyAbydos
July 28th, 2006, 08:07 PM
Of the episodes this season, I thought this was the worst. Next weeks episode looks awesome.

rarocks24
July 28th, 2006, 08:08 PM
Not good. I decided to watch it, simply to get an Atlantis fix, and I was correct in my assumption that it'd be a flop, though there were some great lines.

FoolishPleasure
July 28th, 2006, 08:09 PM
Dang. I gotta eat my words. I wanted to hate this episode but. . .I rather enjoyed it. *hangs head in shame* ;)

Osiris-RA
July 28th, 2006, 08:11 PM
Ya'll crazy! :P That was the best ep ever!! Weir was hilarious! I usually hate her character, but tonight she shone.Then Dex, Teyla, even MCKAY. :eek: The SGA people are so much more interesting when they're high.

*will have a point later*

dark
July 28th, 2006, 08:12 PM
This was a great ep. And sending the guy back to his village (after "waking them up") is punishment enough.

IWantToBelieve
July 28th, 2006, 08:12 PM
I enjoyed this episode more than I can ever say. It was cute, funny, and the Sheppard moments completely made my night. There's so much I liked. The hair, the catwoman/batman, Sheppard having to pretend he's just sick, then luring Beckett, the entire Jumper scene, Ronon shooting Sheppard LOL...the look Rodney gave Teyla at the end.

A very fun, cracktastic episode!

Mainer82
July 28th, 2006, 08:12 PM
This was a fun episode, it wasn't meant to expand the storyline at all... atleast that I know of.

vaberella
July 28th, 2006, 08:15 PM
Bloody fantastic episode. So I had my issues at first for this ep..most know I had no high hopes for this at all. But I was laughing and rolling like never before. This is truly an ep that I could watch over and over and over again. It was light and funny and definitely used all the characters to their full capacity.

Now I know what Rachel Lutrell meant when she said it would be full of ships. I mean you had a lot of McKay/Teyla energy---which was papable. Wow!! Who would have thunk iit. And I think I maybe a Lucius/Weir shipper now. Or Lucius/Teyla that was hilarious. Carson/Lucius---well we all know that's the OTP--right?! :beckett:

Besides ship...for all those who are non shippers. This was a bloody great episode. I mean it was funny, and very very entertaining.

Carson was great and definitely we saw avenues for Paul's different characterization...and when he was so cool and relaxed in the end to fool Lucius. He was just great.

Teyla was great..she held her own, she wasn't easily persuaded..she was funny and great and her laughter really makes her super hot. Really liked when Lucius was backing into Teyla...I was like..I've had guys comeon that strong...and I've done the same; although I thought she thought his breath stunk. She's fiesty.

Weir...I thought she was great..again her leadership was lacking. I mean Carson really did something out of order and she was so easily swayed. But we've established leading especially friends is not a good thing for her. Aside rom that Weir, was great and I thought she was great with Lucius. The energy between the two was great.

Then we have Ronon--now I had a few problems with that...it was really weird to see Ronon as a pussy...but it's a cute pussy, so I was tolerating. And in instances he made me laugh.

Then we have Shep...I thought it was way too easy to have John sick. But it actually worked and made it flow. So that flickering candle in the midst of a level 5 tornado turned into a flame during summer weather in Arizona. So yeah I give this ep a huge big:


10/10

smushybird
July 28th, 2006, 08:16 PM
Well...

There were plenty of cringe moments. But there were moments where I laughed so hard, I scared my cat. :) Mainly the crack about Shep's hair and the Batman discussion...and the closing scene, omg, that was slashy as hell. :D And so funny. The cast was so energetic and vivid....that apart from the silliness of the ep, I really enjoyed just watching Liz, Rodney, Beckett, Zelenka, Shep, Teyla, Ronon, etc interact. They all seemed to be having a lot of fun. :D

After watching a superb SG1 and an amusing, oddly bonding ep of SGA...my strongest reaction was why the heck can't all the episodes on both shows include fun, funny bonding bantering moments like these?!? Why why why.

SG1 and SGA writers are obviously capable of writing it. I wish they'd do it a whole lot more often.

Bobthespirit
July 28th, 2006, 08:18 PM
This was a great ep. And sending the guy back to his village (after "waking them up") is punishment enough.

Punishment for rape, and putting the future of the entire galaxy in jeopardy due to his own selfish need for attention?

It'd be one thing if they came back and said 'He was put in jail by the other villagers for rape', but it sounds to me like the women he raped just grumbled and filed for divorce.

siXbrownSnakes2
July 28th, 2006, 08:19 PM
The best part of the episode was the previews for "Sateda".

Mitchell82
July 28th, 2006, 08:19 PM
I must say I was plesently impressed! I went into this episode hoping to just like it. Iknew it wouldn't be a serious episode but I loved it! Richard Kind is a great actor and really enjoyed how he pulled it off. Can't wait to see him reprise his role in Irresponsible. Next weeks looks ausome. Prey that we got good ratings. Hoping for 1.8 for both shows but would like 2.0Power of positive thinking people!

ToasterOnFire
July 28th, 2006, 08:23 PM
Wow...

I'm trying to figure out which ep was worse - Tower or this one. Yuck, I was nauseated by Lucius the whole time. Never watching this one again...

The hair comment was damn funny, but nowhere near made up for this crap. This is bottom of the barrel for Atlantis. And Binder wrote it! Binder! :S

keshou
July 28th, 2006, 08:23 PM
Silliest episode ever.

I liked it. ;) :)

Major Gambit
July 28th, 2006, 08:26 PM
does anyone else hope for a Carson Crying smilie? :D :beckett:

vaberella
July 28th, 2006, 08:26 PM
Punishment for rape, and putting the future of the entire galaxy in jeopardy due to his own selfish need for attention?

It'd be one thing if they came back and said 'He was put in jail by the other villagers for rape', but it sounds to me like the women he raped just grumbled and filed for divorce.

Yeah he might be jailed and imprissoned..but I wasn't looking into those aspects of the show, I think they just wanted to make it funny. And if you heard from his wife the one in the orange...she did sleep with him BEFORE she married him, and he said she wouldn't have slept with him more than once. So I think on some level it wasnt' rape...he probably got with all the women BEFORE actually getting the potion....but he did marry them while they were under the influence.

So I think we're supposed to read it as light and not into the scheme of the points that were not a huge issue in the beginning.

PG15
July 28th, 2006, 08:27 PM
Bloody fantastic episode. So I had my issues at first for this ep..most know I had no high hopes for this at all. But I was laughing and rolling like never before. This is truly an ep that I could watch over and over and over again. It was light and funny and definitely used all the characters to their full capacity.

*gasp!* You really liked it?! :eek: Gosh, who knew that would happen? ;)

:p:p:p

captainpash
July 28th, 2006, 08:28 PM
Funny ep. I mean it's like Wormhole Extreme. If you've got a good sense of humor you'll love it. If you don't then you'll hate it.

KairezLightkeeper
July 28th, 2006, 08:31 PM
Definitely an interesting little sidetrip, this episode was... Ah, but who wouldn't want some of that herb/chemical? If only for “research purposes?”

Gate Geek
July 28th, 2006, 08:34 PM
I did not go into this episode with very high expectations and I was surprised at how much I actually enjoyed it. I was laughing so hard I got a darned asthma attack.
Several funny lines and great characterization and interaction between all the members. It was nice having an episode where everyone could let their hair down for a change. I can see myself actually watching this episode again.

Pocus
July 28th, 2006, 08:35 PM
I thought this was a light and funny episode. It was neat to see the characters acting out of character. Weir was very girly. I loved how the "smitten" line came back from Inferno but this time was directed at Carson.

Richard Kind did a great job! He came across as someone who really did not see the harm in getting everyone to do what he wants, when he wants. It was funny to see him in his own village when the team turned him down for giving him a Jumper. It was a subtle look of not being used to being told no. I absolutely loved the look Teyla gave him when he commented on her being good wife material.

Glad to see Atlantis can do fun episodes.

vaberella
July 28th, 2006, 08:36 PM
*gasp!* You really liked it?! :eek: Gosh, who knew that would happen? ;)

:p:p:p
:D :D :D I know...I was more than shocked. I couldn't stop laughing, which was even worse...I'm a snorter so it was a combination of laughin at the ep and then laughing at my snort. :D :D :D

I definitely made it very high, compared to the other eps. I gave such a high score mainly because it's funny which is totally original from the other eps from S1 and S2. You get some cheesy lines from most of the eps...or something that makes you giggle. But it's relatively really hard core story lines..not much smiling to do. But this ep really went somewhere else and it was great. I was really impressed.

Now I have to wait for Sateda has to offer me, because I am really looking forward to it...and based on what I saw of the preview, it is bound to be great.

VB

Kem Rixen
July 28th, 2006, 08:36 PM
I love this episode, it had Teyla and the whole team finally go off world together again in a puddle jumper like the good ol' days. It had a lot of silliness, and some great lines.

Fly lucius, fly.

Sela
July 28th, 2006, 08:37 PM
From the moment Lucius started coming onto Teyla and when he asked Shep how he got his hair to do that, I was ROFLMAO!!! I had heard it was suppose to be a funny episode but it was hilarious!

Kudos to all of the actors for playing their parts to the hilt and having fun with the joke. Liz was such a fan girl, I swear she almost "squee-ed". In the cafeteria, she had her hands all over him. When her head whipped around when she heard that Lucius had wanted Teyla to be his wife I nearly fell off the bed from laughing so hard. To see Ronon defend him forcefully to Rodney and to watch how Zelenka was hanging onto Lucius' every word was pure pleasure. After Sheppard made Carson cry in jumper, I was done for. My head, throat and chest hurt from laughing so hard that I had to rewind the tape at the end to see what happened next.

I swear, I haven't laughed this hard and this long at a Stargate related episode in a long, long time. Thanks to everyone included in the making of this episode. I really, really loved it.

lissa1000
July 28th, 2006, 08:49 PM
I thought I was going to like this episode, but it just wasn't funny. The episode was stupid and it was creepy the way he essentially drugged those women into sleeping with him. Was that supposed to be cute? Maybe part of the problem is that Joss Whedon has spoiled me. I think sga needs some of Buffy's writers. I can't believe I got so excited about sga. This show used to be intellegent sci fi with interesting characters and now it's that cheesy campy sci fi that I always hated. Why did they have to change it so drastically?

Major Tyler
July 28th, 2006, 09:04 PM
The glorified date-rape with no real consequences was profoundly disturbing, but other than that the episode wasn't too bad. It wasn't as "irredeemable" as I suspected it might be.

vaberella
July 28th, 2006, 09:08 PM
I thought I was going to like this episode, but it just wasn't funny. The episode was stupid and it was creepy the way he essentially drugged those women into sleeping with him. Was that supposed to be cute? Maybe part of the problem is that Joss Whedon has spoiled me. I think sga needs some of Buffy's writers. I can't believe I got so excited about sga. This show used to be intellegent sci fi with interesting characters and now it's that cheesy campy sci fi that I always hated. Why did they have to change it so drastically?

No no..Joss Whedon...Chris Carter, okay. Joss Whedon no way. My problem with Joss was the fact he would get you near to an orgasmic high during the ep cause it was good. And then they'd quickly end it and make it seem like it was totally rushed. I hate eps like that..and almost every Buffy/Angel ep was like that. As for Chris Carter....now he's just beyond great.

oh, although I have to say I liked Firefly.

ToasterOnFire
July 28th, 2006, 09:10 PM
I know they were trying to portray Lucius as a creep, but I could have definitely done without Lucius's open ogling of Weir's chest when they had their meeting and his comment about how he slept with all of his wives at once. Are the writers now living vicariously through him?

And I don't care if that woman slept with him before he took the drug; once he was on it the women had no way to give honest consent - therefore it was rape. To have it happen in a comedic episode was even more out of place for me. Extremely poor form. :S

Not_The_MaMa
July 28th, 2006, 09:18 PM
^ O come on lighten up a little, its just a show. I cant even begin to imagin how mutch fun that episode had to be to film. I loved it it was so funny,it was defnatly time for an episode like this, after all the storyline episodes.

Annubis' hitman
July 28th, 2006, 09:20 PM
Funny episode.

i give it a 9/10

It gave a humorus side to the night with the more serious sg-1 episode tonight.

I loved the acting.

Ronnon acting goofy was awesome.

captain jake
July 28th, 2006, 09:22 PM
The glorified date-rape with no real consequences was profoundly disturbing, but other than that the episode wasn't too bad. It wasn't as "irredeemable" as I suspected it might be.

disturbing? thats the understatement of the century why didn't we arrest him? He was committing a crime against humanity what the crap is wrong with them? He should have been tried for his crimes instead of getting a little slap on the wrist and a wink.

I really was ashamed after seeing Pegasus the greatest episode yet to air this was just not up to snuff. I don't mean to be a critic but I wouldn't give this anymore than 6 out of 10.

Captain-Peregrine
July 28th, 2006, 09:30 PM
I thought this was a very entertaining episode. Lucias got on my nerves--he was sorta creepy...okay, he was really creepy--but how everyone on Atlantis reacted to him was pretty funny. Carson had me rolling on the floor laughing and Rodney's line: "Fly, Lucias, Fly!" made me split my gut. Oh, and Carson blubbering in the back of the puddle jumper was just too funny. And the quip about Sheppard's hair was beautiful. Too bad he didn't answer--I, frankly, would love to know what he uses. And Rodney trying to hang onto the herb... well, who wouldn't want to?

On a down note--I really, really didn't like Lucias. He had a funny part, but as a person he was a slime-ball. He was a rather gross little man--I mean, the way he keeps going on about getting "female companionship" more than once was very icky. And if I were his wives--or ANY of the women he had slept with--I would hang him by his... well, I'd hang him by what Ronan probably threatened to cut off.

And I thought Weir's part sucked. Yeah, she was under the influence, but even before that--except for a few moments--I thought she had a really crummy roll. But, I suppose The Real World will amend that.

(on a side note: Is it just a Canadian thing or does everyone except me pronounce herb with the "h"? I always thought it was "erb" minus the "h".)

But, all in all, I thought this was a very good episode. I'd rate it an 8.5 or 9 on the scale of 10.

Willow'sCat
July 28th, 2006, 09:33 PM
No no..Joss Whedon...Chris Carter, okay. Joss Whedon no way. My problem with Joss was the fact he would get you near to an orgasmic high during the ep cause it was good. And then they'd quickly end it and make it seem like it was totally rushed. I hate eps like that..and almost every Buffy/Angel ep was like that. Well that is your opinion. This is mine... Joss Wedon dealt with a similar story, he had the three uber geeks mind control an ex girlfriend of one of them, then they were going to have sex with her one after the other or who knows all at once. She came out of the mind control thing and called them on it. "That is rape!" She got killed, while they were trying to silence her and bicker about how it wasn't rape.

Joss (and his brilliant team of writers) sending a clear message, as fun as it all seemed; it was still rape. ;) Did anyone in this little eppy say he was a rapist?

If they did fine, if they just sent him off on his way, not so fine. I can take a joke but rape is no laughing matter to those who have been there and suffered. :cool: And if Weir or Teyla had sleep with him would you still say it was just funny? Or would you say he raped them? Consent is the key here, if you are unable to fully consent it is rape. *I can't understand how people still don't get that* :cool:

Gate Geek
July 28th, 2006, 09:49 PM
This is a stupid question, buy does anyone know why is Shep wearing combat boots and not his normal Merrill hikers?

gill2_1
July 28th, 2006, 09:51 PM
i so hated this ep that i really had to come up here and write that i hate this ep
do u hear me producers do
I {Mod Snip} HATE THIS
The only reason i watched this is to see how pathetic this could be and it war very pathetic to begin with
i mean couldn't u come up with a better ep idea i mean there are a lot of fan who will give u ideas
when u have to drop this low to a level to fill in the ep requirements
great plzz zzzzzzzzzzzzzz dont bring that {Mod Snip}ACTOR EVER AGAIN ON THIS SHOW
only i will hate him whtever show movie he comes into
could u just make a show of exploration or of how the wraith or just another good old impossible mission :mad:

gambit
July 28th, 2006, 09:53 PM
This is a stupid question, buy does anyone know why is Shep wearing combat boots and not his normal Merrill hikers?

That's just what he is wearing now, he also has a new black uniform with leather jacket coming next week. The promo pics did show Mckay and Teyla with black uniforms as well, but they don't appear to have the leather jackets.

SilverLily
July 28th, 2006, 09:53 PM
I loved this episode! I knew from the previews that it would be a lighter, funnier episode so that's what I expected. The actors portrayed their characters in a different light and did it fabulously!

Sheppard and McKay's expressions when they came back to Atlantis were priceless.. as were Lucius's comments to Weir and Teyla!

Especially the last bit where Shep says he needs to go clean McKay's quarters! PRICELESS!

Overall, I give it a 10/10.. I would definitely watch it again and again! As for the Lucius/imprisonment issue, I think it was punishment enough to send him back with everybody knowing what he had done.. I'm sure they'll be angry enough to get some type of revenge. And also, this is television, right? It's just entertainment. ;)

coolove
July 28th, 2006, 09:54 PM
This episode was just way too ridiculous ... which is probably why I was nearly laughing the whole time. I liked it. But initially if I were Weir or Teyla I would knock Lucius on his ass for making those kinda of moves and that was before his pharamones started to take effect.

Sela
July 28th, 2006, 10:01 PM
First off let me say that this is just my humble opinion, not meant to insult anyone - I'm just voicing my views. While this part of the discussion might need to be taken to another thread I have to say that I don't see the rape aspect of it. I'm sitting here watching it through the second time trying to see what some of you are saying about "rape" and I don't see it. He drugged himself and produced a "super" pheramone which everyone reacted to. Yeah, he lied to everyone within earshot but how does that make it rape? He also married these women, he didn't sleep with them and dump them. To take the point a step farther, although he had ample opportunity he didn't sleep with either Teyla or Weir (or Carson) - he talked about marriage (although not with Carson).

Due Respect, but have none of you been out to the bars lately and come up against that one creepy guy who seems to (excuse the expression) charm the pants off of the women while you stand there wondering why? To me it's the same thing only more so. IMHO to tack a charge of rape on it I think takes it a bit over the top.

Major Tyler
July 28th, 2006, 10:11 PM
He had six wives and claimed to have slept with them all (at the same time, no less). When Sheppard interviewed one of the wives, she confirmed that before Lavin was on the herb, she refused to sleep with him...but now she does.

That's the definition of drug-induced rape.

Sela
July 28th, 2006, 10:18 PM
He had six wives and claimed to have slept with them all (at the same time, no less). When Sheppard interviewed one of the wives, she confirmed that before Lavin was on the herb, she refused to sleep with him...but now she does.

That's the definition of drug-induced rape.
"All at the same time" Yes, ewww. For me, that's creepy and disgusting but for others, it may be a good time. (How many of you laughed about Jack dreaming about "twins"? )That's an orgy, not rape. Again, he drugged himself, not them. He increased his own body's natural biological processes. They reacted to him. On Earth it's plastic surgery, big hair and skin tight leather. I guess it just depends on how you look at it. :)

Also, why is everyone focusing just on the sex? (Oh - Duh, Sela.) He affected everyone around them. Why aren't people as outraged about manipulating Carson to give him the gene therapy and trying to steal a jumper, putting SGA members lives in danger to get the herb, and putting all of Atlantis in danger of discovery from the Wraith? He made Ronon pull a gun on Shep for crying out loud - and shoot him?! To me, that's pretty bad, if you think about it.

I'm just sayin.... ;)

Mitchell82
July 28th, 2006, 10:19 PM
i so hated this ep that i really had to come up here and write that i hate this ep
do u hear me producers do
<snip>
The only reason i watched this is to see how pathetic this could be and it war very pathetic to begin with
i mean couldn't u come up with a better ep idea i mean there are a lot of fan who will give u ideas
when u have to drop this low to a level to fill in the ep requirements
<snip>
could u just make a show of exploration or of how the wraith or just another good old impossible mission :mad:
WHOA NELLY! That is a little harsh don't you think? I understand you didn't like this episiode and that's fine but that is a little over the top. I happened to enjoy this episode, you didn't fine. But you shouldn't bash the actors or producers(read terms). Try to keep this a freindly palce to compare thoughts.

Galilahi
July 28th, 2006, 10:25 PM
I really liked this ep. it's always fun to get out of the same ol' formula and try something new. all the actors rose to the challenge.

"Teyla he wanted you to be his seventh wife!"
"I know, I hope I didn't mess that up."

Weir acting like she was 15 and mooning over the quarterback.

"Fly Lucius, fly."

Carson crying like a little girl.

"How do you get your hair like that?"

I thought Lucius was pretty harmless until the end of the ep. Then he got creepy threatening.

FYI the definition of rape is:
The crime of forcing another person to submit to sex acts, especially sexual intercourse.
The act of seizing and carrying off by force; abduction.
Abusive or improper treatment; violation: a rape of justice

So what Lucius did to his wives was rape; he took away their ability to consent by way of his drug.

Major Tyler
July 28th, 2006, 10:28 PM
"All at the same time" Yes, ewww. For me, that's creepy and disgusting but for others, it may be a good time. (How many of you laughed about Jack dreaming about "twins"? )That's an orgy, not rape. Again, he drugged himself, not them. He increased his own body's natural biological processes. They reacted to him. On Earth it's plastic surgery, big hair and skin tight leather. I guess it just depends on how you look at it.Well, he drugged himself to make his body produce a drug that makes people have sex with him, so I really don't see the moral distinction. Any way you slice it, Lavin forced women to sleep with him when they otherwise would not (and in the case of the woman Shep talked to, she already said "no" many times).

Ironic
July 28th, 2006, 10:40 PM
Dear God, I need to scrub my brain with harsh chemicals. That was . . . that was just so bad, I'm speechless. Lucious needed to die, a lot. OMG, assasinate him! I understand it was suppose to be a funny carefree episode, but "Duet" did it about a billion times better. This was just cringe worthy.

Oh, and btw, I think it was rape. He may have used the drugs on himself, but the girls/guys were all drugged by the effects of his herbs. They were, by definition, under the influence. That's rape. *shudders*

This was, quite possibly, worse than "The Tower."

And I actually went in with optimistic hopes.

starfox
July 28th, 2006, 10:40 PM
I was prepared to hate this episode, but I found it rather funny. It wasn't overly slapstick, and it definitely had a couple of squee-worthy moments for me.

Rodney's little-boy-excited look when explaining the gate-jumping to Ronon and Teyla. So cute.

When they get to the planet and Lucius is attempting to mack on Teyla, Rodney was the first to step in. And my inner Rodney/Teyla shipper squees like crazy.

I also kind of liked the fact that Rodney was totally checking out the women in the village. Because that part of him so often gets overlooked because of Sheppard's exploits, but I like it when Rodney checks out women. Partially because I don't find him the least bit skeezy, just...appreciative. Also, the sheer power of testosterone in the characters of Sheppard and Ronon overpower him sometimes, so it's nice to have a reminder that Rodney=virile male.

And omg were there a lot of sex references in this episode! My inner twelve year old dirty mind was having a field day with this.

Independent!Teyla and Exasperated!Rodney are so my new favorite versions of those two.

I love the tone John took when telling Lucius he couldn't have a jumper. Like someone explaining something to a little kid. And the facial expression was priceless, too. Joe Flanigan did a great job in this episode.

I really liked the costumes in this episode. They were so colorful and pretty; I love the dresses the women were wearing. And of course, the breasts, because we can't have a skeezy guy and pretty women without lots and lots of cleavage. I found that amusing.

*my inner 12 year old comes out* Yeah, I bet Lucius has a couple of things he wants to share with Carson. 'Cause Carson's just that much of a stud. I love his voice and his facial expression when he says he doesn't need Lucius's potions. So self-confident and dry. Carson doesn't need any help; he's got chicks lined up around the block already. Can we have more of that sexy, dry, confident Carson this season? Please?

Anyone else get the impression that, when Lucius first sat down in her office and grabbed her hand, Weir was fighting with the urge to just kick him in the nuts? And he got such a nervous look when she moved to the other side of the table, like he had forgotton how to deal with people who didn't instantly worship him.

The batman scene? So many levels of priceless. It's a mini geek-out! Rodney is a total fanboy, and Sheppard has his fanboy tendencies as well. I can't decide whether that expression on his face was him trying to get Rodney to move on with it, or embarrassed that he had just shared his dorktastic side. And this coming after the cafeteria scene from "No Man's Land"? The writers so have our number here.

Sheppard returns to the planet and the colors are muted and the boobs are hidden. Because that's how you show despair, by covering of the breasts. Sad people don't have cleavage.

I was really, really hoping that McKay would hold out and help save the day so he could regain all the cool points they stole from him on SG-1. But that would be too easy, I guess.

Ronon hugging a bag of drugs should not be that cute.

I was surprised that Sheppard didn't tell Lucius about the people on his home planet suffering without him. Shep didn't even attempt to guilt the creep into going back to his six buxom wives. Probably because he wanted to save everyone instead of just Atlantis, but still, it seems like a bit of an oversight not to have him even mention it.

Carson helping trick Lucius? All kinds of awesome. He needs to save the day more often; it's surprising and refreshing and fun.

"No lingering desire for his touch?" Yes, it's probably insensitive and hurtful towards Liz (except I'm living in my little happy world where Lucius didn't actually sleep with any of the women on Atlantis because he was afraid of Sheppard finding out and killing him), but it was so funny. Especially as Carson was the one who replied. What were you two getting up to, Doc?
There were a lot of Shep/Weir moments in this ep, but Shep was good here and all the moments were so well-written, I'm disinclined to gripe.

And of course Rodney used the drug on Shep. It was payback for the lemon thing from SG-1.
And omg Rodney totally gave Teyla The Look in that last scene and my inner Rodney/Teyla shipper is squeeing in so many ways, omg, omg, omg. Though it was the slightest bit sketchy, but that was probably a side effect of the herb.
******

Now, to end my stream-of-consciousness squee and talk about other things in the ep.

Sending Lucius back at the end: Totally the right thing to do. His crimes on the planet deserved to be punished by the people of that planet. What right did we have to punish him; we were not the victims of his crime. We are not the moral police of the Pegasus galaxy, nor should we be. We detoxed the people of his home planet and they were in their right minds when we returned him. Just because Sheppard didn't say that Lucius was being severely punished didn't mean that he wasn't. It's not at all our place to decide how he should pay for his crimes.

Richard Kind played this role very well. He leaned in and invaded people's personal space a lot when talking to them, which fit in very well with spreading of the pheromone. Also, when Lucius talked to Shep in the prison cell, he went from a little skeezy to just plain disturbing. A bad guy who not only refuses to acknowledge his wrongs but says that they're not hurting anyone, even when confronted by the evidence? The creepiest type of criminal.

This was a simple, standalone ep, which made no efforts to delve into complex moral issues. And after the last two episodes, that's perfectly okay. This was the right spot for a simple breather. And besides, this had to be so much fun for the actors. I would have loved to be on set while they were shooting this.

Like it, don't like it, whatever, but it's best to just take this episode for what it was intended to be: fun.

Sela
July 28th, 2006, 10:45 PM
Well, he drugged himself to make his body produce a drug that makes people have sex with him, so I really don't see the moral distinction. Any way you slice it, Lavin forced women to sleep with him when they otherwise would not (and in the case of the woman Shep talked to, she already said "no" many times).
I didn't say it was moral. I said to me, it wasn't rape. And Shep only talked to one woman. Like I said, it's all how you look at it. Let's agree to disagree on this point.

It's been an interesting thought provoking discussion and I thank you for stating your views and disagreement with my views in a respectful manner.

RoryJ
July 28th, 2006, 10:46 PM
I for one couldn't sit through more than 15 minutes of The Tower, but loved this episode, so I don't think the comparison stands. IMHO, of course.

I hate quoting myself, but I basically reviewed the things I liked about the episode in another thread, so instead of typing it all again, I figure I'd just repost it and add some more thoughts in another post.

(Warning: the original post was made in the Sparky thread, so ignore any shippy squeeing. There's not much, I swear!)

My thoughts on Irresistible:

1. When Ronon mentioned something about Atlantis or the puddlejumpers when they were eating, did Teyla take a light swat at him? I thought that was the cutest thing ever!

2. "How do you get your hair like that?" + Shep's expression = ROTFLMAO

3. Lucius looking at Elizabeth's chest and her instantly backing away, insulted, was awesome. There's only one man allowed to have wandering eyes on our girl. ;)

3. Shep with a cold is decidedly the cutest thing ever. Give him more colds, please. Thank you.

4. The Batman conversation was hysterical. That's friendship - the little things.

5. Shep walking in on Elizabeth and Lucius' conversation. To me, he seemed dangerously territorial. Not liking Lucius' proximity to her one bit. Also loved yet another show of him defending her honor by stoutly denying that she's a coward.

6. Teyla's response to Shep reminding her that Lucius wanted her as his seventh wife: "Yes . . . I hope I did not upset him." I laughed so hard . . . she's so cute.

7. Carson having a hissy fit and Shep smacking him was too cute. Those two need some more interaction.

8. Elizabeth's "They're taking off!" was hysterical to me for some reason. So was Rodney's "Fly, Lucius, fly!"

9. The end, OMG, Ronon was looking at Teyla for like 20 seconds! Get a room! ;)

10. The way Shep said "lingering desires" - thank goodness Liz has self-control, because if I were her I would have pounced on him!

Overall, I was initially worried about this ep, but I was laughing the whole way through, and many parts had me practically in tears. A great, fun, character-full episode. I luvs me my Carl binder, I do, I do. :D

Ironic
July 28th, 2006, 10:48 PM
Starfox, I have to agree on something with you. Yes, there were a lot of Teyla/Rodney scenes! Where did that come from? (Not that I didn't find those particular scenes funny).

L.A. Doyle
July 28th, 2006, 10:55 PM
A fun episode. :)

Fatewarns
July 28th, 2006, 11:39 PM
I found this episode weirdly charming, I'll tell you right now I didn't know what to expect for this episode. Before this episode air I hope that it would be good, but in the back of my mind I thought it would be most likely bad. But gladly I'm WRONG because it was would was GREAT:D :D :D. like Lucius there is strange charm you can't resist this in episode. This is the weirdest episode of both Stargate series. I can't think of a weirder episode.

best moments

1. Looks between Lucius and Teyla
2. Carson's breakdown a moment that can never be forgotten
3. Ending with Mckay
4. all interaction between Lucius and Weir or Teyla

Myn McGeek, Third Sentinel
July 28th, 2006, 11:40 PM
Gee, they need to make a :barf: smilie...

It was a really dumb episode with a few pretty funny parts that made it almost worth watching. Sure, I laughed at some parts, but most of the time I was just feeling really embarrassed for the main characters. The end was probably the most unexpected part. And, yes, I laughed. But still....

3/10

KindlyKeller
July 28th, 2006, 11:41 PM
i so hated this ep that i really had to come up here and write that i hate this ep
do u hear me producers do
I {Mod Snip}HATE THIS
The only reason i watched this is to see how pathetic this could be and it war very pathetic to begin with
i mean couldn't u come up with a better ep idea i mean there are a lot of fan who will give u ideas
when u have to drop this low to a level to fill in the ep requirements
great plzz zzzzzzzzzzzzzz dont bring that {Mod Snip} ACTOR EVER AGAIN ON THIS SHOW
only i will hate him whtever show movie he comes into
could u just make a show of exploration or of how the wraith or just another good old impossible mission :mad:

How could they disregard such an articulate critique?

As for the people concerned with the "rape" aspect, these aren't real people and the episode was meant as a piece of levity. It's just another part of the suspension of disbelief. I know the thought certainly didn't even occur to me until I read it on here.

I wasn't splitting a gut (then again, I tend to enjoy the show's intentional humor less than most GW folks), but I thought it was cute and there were some moments that got an audible chuckle from me.

"Fly, Lucias, fly!"

smushybird
July 28th, 2006, 11:43 PM
Joe Flanigan did a great job in this episode.

Was he not just utterly fabulous? :D I loved him in this ep, with his poor little cold (Sheppard, didn't your mom ever tell you to cover your mouth when you cough?) and the crack about his lovely hair and then he had to save everyone and when Ronon pulled the gun on him and everyone was against him, that was an interesting moment--I felt scared for him. There were aspects of this episode that were well done. That moment and also when Shep was imprisoned and Lucius went from fatuous and obnoxious to creepy and disturbing, it gave the ep a little more weight--but I agree with posters who think we should have been informed at the end that he was imprisoned by the women of the village. I feel there's a difference between being susceptible to a guy's charms and completely helpless against an herb/drug that powerful.




The batman scene? So many levels of priceless. It's a mini geek-out! Rodney is a total fanboy, and Sheppard has his fanboy tendencies as well. I can't decide whether that expression on his face was him trying to get Rodney to move on with it, or embarrassed that he had just shared his dorktastic side.


That was my favorite moment, far and away. The type of friendshippy moments that have been sorely lacking in recent eps we finally get in this ridiculous episode. :sigh: :) Well, it's better than nothing, I suppose.
How these guys remember moments from these old tv shows! I watched Batman when I was a kid and I don't remember that ep at all. :D Maybe it's a guy thing.




I was really, really hoping that McKay would hold out and help save the day so he could regain all the cool points they stole from him on SG-1. But that would be too easy, I guess.

It was clear early on that Shep's cold was going to be his protection, the same way Daniel's allergy was his in that old episode of SG1. I would've liked to see Rodney save the day, too--but it was fun that Shep and Carson did. They were adorable together.




And of course Rodney used the drug on Shep. It was payback for the lemon thing from SG-1.

So slashy. I almost died. :) That was fun. The Carson stuff was pretty slashy too.

Also, having the SGA group on SG1--that was such a fantastic episode in so many ways. I wouldn't mind if they did that more often. The banter was some of the best I've ever seen on either show. DH was so great in the whole ep. His scenes w/ Shep and Cameron, his scenes with Sam--just wonderful.

I wish all the episodes could be that good.

TameFarrar
July 29th, 2006, 12:03 AM
I have to say I completely enjoyed this episode. I took it for what I thought it was ...just a fun romp and some silliness...no big moral dilema and no big social context :) Just a fun romp of silliness and a bunch of *Guy writers * having some fun with the cleavage :)

The whole thing reminded me ALOT of Harry Mudd from the old Star Trek.

I just sat back and laughed at all of the antics of all of the SGA team and just plain enjoyed myself :D

Fatewarns
July 29th, 2006, 12:12 AM
Carson's moments are probably the funniest part of the episode

SySTeMLoRDLoL
July 29th, 2006, 12:17 AM
That episode was funny at first, but the rape aspect killed the jokes pretty quickly. Of course, Lucius was sent back to his planet and hopefully imprisoned/executed for his crimes. (I'm adding this to my memory of the show so that I can still continue watching SGA without feeling like I am condoning rape.) I believe we saw him admitting to rape ("Six wives at once" whom he repeatedly drugged before his romp), conspiring to commit murder ("do something about Shep"), and enslaving other people on screen. The guy was basically a horny Goa'uld. (Apophis on Viagra? scary thought) It was even more disturbing the way he sat there and tried to tell Shep that he was just getting people to like him and that there was nothing wrong with that. For the record I am a guy, and my first reaction to the "six wives at once" joke was laughter until it occured to me how wrong that really is when you include the intentional pheromone abuse. I know it's just a show, but it's sending the wrong message. Rape isn't a joke, and the idea of forcing someone to love you is a pretty scary thought.

LadyBozi
July 29th, 2006, 12:39 AM
Come on ppl..have a sense of humor. It was funny..even though I was praying that John would shoot Lucius just 20 min. into the episode. lol. The whole rape thing. I dont kno. I mean..I didnt even think of it like that. @[email protected] I just saw it as a funny episode.

FerCryinOutLoud!
July 29th, 2006, 12:44 AM
For all of you who were saying how Lucious was a serial rapist, and that he got off with a slap on the wrist and a wink. Think about it... That's the kind of punishment they give serial rapist nowadays. A sign of the times we live in. Just watch the national news once in a while. The system is a joke now. That being said, i enjoyed the episode not because of Lucious but because of the reactions from the people in Atlantis. Other than that i found Lucious creepy and now that i've read what people are saying about him i can really see how he's a criminal rather than a light hearted joker who needs attention.

toranoko
July 29th, 2006, 12:48 AM
I liked the episode for what it was. A good laugh. There were very awesome moments. I don't normally laugh. I don't normally care for comedy, but I laughed a lot.

The hair comments, the Batman thing, Carson, it was all pretty awesome. And McKay at the very end... :)

But, the whole concept is creepy. Towards the end, Lucius's conversation with Sheppard just creeped me out. I can't remember what exactly was said, but I do remember saying "that's creepy" to my friends. Because, seriously, what was done was screwed up.

The way I see it, you can look at it as a pure comedy episode and ignore what was being done by Lucius. Or you can look at what Lucius did and pretty much wonder why they hell someone didn't shoot him at the end.

LadyBozi
July 29th, 2006, 12:56 AM
^^ Like I said.. I wished John just shot him.. lol

Blue Banrigh
July 29th, 2006, 01:35 AM
It was a funny ep if you take it at surface value, but Lucius seriously unnerved me. Twas creepifying how he had seven drugged wives.

Hatcheter
July 29th, 2006, 01:54 AM
That was goofy fun, and a light dessert after the wonderful SG-1. I'm certainly looking forward to next week.

florence
July 29th, 2006, 02:23 AM
I've just seen Irresistible and I must say I was pleasantly surprised. I expected this episode to be something like The Tower, but it's much better. Not the funniest episode I have seen though (Duet is IMO) but it was good.

Lots of Shep/McKay scenes. I loved when they were talking about Batman and Catwoman! Okay, I didn't understand everything because English is not my first language and Rodney is talking really fast, but it was funny! :lol:
Loved Carson too. Seeing him acting like a fanboy and weeping like a baby is very funny! :lol:
Oh and Shep saved the day! Woot! :D I think I yelled "Go John!" when he said no to Weir. I might have scared my neighbours too... :p

Darkhawk
July 29th, 2006, 03:07 AM
First time i fall asleep while watching stargate...
What did they think while writing this crap episode o.O?

They should focus on wraith/zpm storyline not on such crap -.-,

Wraith_Hunter
July 29th, 2006, 03:17 AM
Hated this episode, not a patch on 'Pegasus Project'.

I wasn't expecting much after rading spoilers, unfortunately I'm sad to say it was probably worse than I anticipated.

Beckett crying was funny, but nothing else about it.

I think this just nudges ahead of 'The Tower', 'Epiphany' for the current worst episode of Atlantis to be shown so far. However the rest of the season looks good (barring Irresponsible) & so will forgive them this one.

'Irresponsible Spoilers'

For any that don't know, this is a return episode for Lucius. The only possible saving grace for this ep is that Kolya returns. So I'll reserve judgement in the hope that he kills Lucius off once & for all.

The annoying this is that they feel the need to continue with the pointless storyline. Given the fact that they could have went with other options such as the continuations of the Michael angle etc. I'm sure CT would be costing around the same for appearance fees if less. So hopefully they'll kill him off. After all the writers always kill of the good things they get. Ancient forcefield, Hive ship, Orion, Aurora, Trinity etc, etc. The least they can do is even up the score & kill off the terribly annoying things as well such as Lucius.

myusername
July 29th, 2006, 03:18 AM
I just joined so Hi there...

lemme just toss in my two cents worth and maybe start a discussion...

It was fun, yes.

Why it didn't work for me? Because:

a) Lucius practically abused the women. (Yes that is how I see it). Maybe Shepard should have seen it too and shot him the moment he knew that he was drinking that weird liquid. Because he should know Teyla, Ronon and Elizabeth and that they would not do what they did voluntarily. Therefore he should have saved them. For all he knew, Lucius could have had sex with the two women...and then what? What would that have been, hm?

b) the end. Shep should have had a talk with Elizabeth about this seriously. How did she feel? Violated maybe? Did L. do anything to her that she didn't want? This isn't about some weird desire dude. From my perspective (as a woman), it has more serious implications. Maybe I am overreacting, but I think if you pitch such a story, you should follow it through. Maybe they *do* need female writers.

Therefore. Not that happy. Funny lines: yes. Laughed: Yes. Squeeing over teh pretty: yes. But lacking depth and thinking of the result/implication: sadly also yes.

*lurks back*

AutumnDream
July 29th, 2006, 03:56 AM
i so hated this ep that i really had to come up here and write that i hate this ep
do u hear me producers do
I {Mod Snip} HATE THIS
The only reason i watched this is to see how pathetic this could be and it war very pathetic to begin with
i mean couldn't u come up with a better ep idea i mean there are a lot of fan who will give u ideas
when u have to drop this low to a level to fill in the ep requirements
great plzz zzzzzzzzzzzzzz dont bring that {Mod Snip}ACTOR EVER AGAIN ON THIS SHOW
only i will hate him whtever show movie he comes into
could u just make a show of exploration or of how the wraith or just another good old impossible mission :mad:

Please learn how to type before you use the internet.

Anyway. ZOMG! Gourds! That'll be our new inside joke. You know, me and you. And by, "you" I mean "the fandom". We will mention gourds and we'll all laugh and everyone else will think we're nuts.

Hey, did anyone else think Shep got a little "rawr" when Weir was feeling up Lucius?

I'm not a shipper, I swear... :D

Ouroboros
July 29th, 2006, 04:23 AM
ahahahaha

Well the Tower has been dethroned. It was a good run budy but we all knew you were'nt going to last long, not with this writing. This is the worst episode of the series and probably the worst episode of the franchise as well.

To get to the bottem of why let me tell you a little story. Once upon a time there was a character in Farscape some of you may remember called Commandant Grayza. Commandant Grayza was a powerful military woman who raped people with a drug for the sake of expediant extraction of information. She'd give them the drug, they'd fall head over heels in love with her, tell her everything she wanted to know and then she'd presumably cast them aside. Grayza wasn't all evil though. Despite her methods her goals were not selfish and actually amounted to saving her people from the genocidal forces of an alien empire. Despite these somewhat mitigating circumstances and "greater good ideals" however Farscape fans almost universally reviled Commandant Grayza.

I'm wondering here if this unquestionably worse version of Commandant Grayza, without the higher minded goals, is suddenlly supposed to be funny and somewhat sympathetic here because of the fact she's now just a guy "gettin' with the ladies", or just because they actually thought the audience would be too stupid to notice the fact that this guy rohypnol raped people exclusively for his own selfish pleasure, and that he did it for YEARS, to dozens of women.

I like Richard Kind to. It saddens me that he was pulled into this atrocity.

Shep'sSocks
July 29th, 2006, 04:25 AM
It was a funny ep if you take it at surface value, but Lucius seriously unnerved me. Twas creepifying how he had seven drugged wives.

I've always found Richard Kind's roles slightly unnerving. I didn't find this episode at all funny, though I can see how a lot of people did. I was rather more with the freaked out viewers.

Serenity228
July 29th, 2006, 04:34 AM
Sheppard returns to the planet and the colors are muted and the boobs are hidden. Because that's how you show despair, by covering of the breasts. Sad people don't have cleavage.


I agreed with your entire post, but about died when I read the above quote. I had never really thought about that before. Feeling good, going out: cleavage. Sick and miserable with head cold: biggest, granny, comfort robe that can be found. :D

Too funny. :lol:

Easter Lily
July 29th, 2006, 04:43 AM
Dang. I gotta eat my words. I wanted to hate this episode but. . .I rather enjoyed it. *hangs head in shame* ;)
Same here. I hated Hathor and I found Urgo annoying but this episode was surprisingly entertaining. *joins FP in head hanging* :o

Admittedly, what made the episode really work for me was Joe Flanigan... He was marvellous and was given the opportunity to shine. He was every inch the Sheppard I cared about: Suspicious, snarky, scheming and resourceful. I cheered when he went up against Weir. Just like old times... sigh... just like old times.

I want Carl Binder to write for Sheppard every time now...

macktheknife
July 29th, 2006, 04:53 AM
This was a pretty funny episode, beckett was hilarious, and "Fly Lucius Fly" was pure gold.

Serenity228
July 29th, 2006, 05:14 AM
I loved this episode. I had a seriously goofy grin plastered on my face throughout the whole episode. There were so many funny interchanges and crazy character moments. Did I mention how much I loved this ep?

Many of the posts have dealt with the subject of rape. I do not think the writers meant to go in that "serious issue" direction. Some arcs, like the whole Michael/retrovirus arc, was meant to go into the realm of morality and social conscious. Irresistible was meant as fun, and not much more. I do not think they treated rape lightly in this ep, because they were not trying to go for a rape theme at all. I think the writers were going more for the "Lucius (sp?) was naughty, selfish, and was a hedonist and John and Carson enabled his own village to give him what he had coming for his deceptions."

However, one can argue that rape is so detestable that nothing that even looks or sounds remotely like rape should be brought into an episode without it being treated very seriously. In today's world, so many atrocities are becoming commonplace and feelings of social injustice are running (understandably) high. I imagine that it must be hard for writers to come up with an episode that deals with any type of storyline that would not be offensive to someone, even though that was not the purpose of the story.

IMHO :)

macktheknife
July 29th, 2006, 05:22 AM
(on a side note: Is it just a Canadian thing or does everyone except me pronounce herb with the "h"? I always thought it was "erb" minus the "h".)

Australian, new zealand and english people call it "herb".

expendable_crewman
July 29th, 2006, 05:46 AM
First off let me say that this is just my humble opinion, not meant to insult anyone - I'm just voicing my views. While this part of the discussion might need to be taken to another thread I have to say that I don't see the rape aspect of it. Due Respect, but have none of you been out to the bars lately and come up against that one creepy guy who seems to (excuse the expression) charm the pants off of the women while you stand there wondering why? To me it's the same thing only more so. IMHO to tack a charge of rape on it I think takes it a bit over the top.It's rape if one person doesn't have it together enough to give consent. The herb was like a roofie. The only difference was the people exposed to it stayed awake. Still, their brains disconnected along with their willpower, as Lucius said, and they conducted themselves like happy little robots or puppets or whatever. Putting someone on the herb and having sex with that person would meet the elements of rape in my state.

We were supposed to be creeped out by him, IMO. The scene with Sheppard in the brig was a high point for me. Lucius promising Sheppard that he, Sheppard, will eventually be "with the program" and love it, got this response, "Just a warning, Lucius. You get close to me, it'll be the last thing you do." It wasn't the threat so much as Sheppard had just pointed out the six wives and Lucius had smugly dismissed it with a disgusting comment. Then Lucius followed with his comment about Sheppard getting over his cold and responding to the herb. Clearly, Sheppard didn't want to be Lucius's puppet and Lucius didn't care. Creepy.

I did like the episode. I knew it was supposed to light. I enjoyed that aspect. His hair? Nice goof. Yet that brig scene and the scenes after the team gets back from the "herb planet" weren't so light. I enjoyed that too. I didn't get a bad vibe from them sending Lucius back to face his own people. My imagination didn't need any help as to what he'd face but I do agree they could have added a line about it that maybe matched the tight, dark expression on Sheppard's face when Lucius was doing his "come clean" moments.

keshou
July 29th, 2006, 06:05 AM
Admittedly, what made the episode really work for me was Joe Flanigan... He was marvellous and was given the opportunity to shine. He was every inch the Sheppard I cared about: Suspicious, snarky, scheming and resourceful. I cheered when he went up against Weir. Just like old times... sigh... just like old times.

I want Carl Binder to write for Sheppard every time now...
Ditto to the Carl Binder comment. I've always enjoyed his writing.

I LOVED Sheppard in this one. He had the funniest expressions on his face. And I thought everyone else fawning all over Lucius was very amusing.

My biggest LOL moment was when Shep punched Carson in the chest and said "buck up Carson". And then poor Beckett weeping like a baby. I was grinning the whole time.

Made me a fangirl of Sheppard again and I'd kind of fallen out of love with that character. :)

Ugly Pig
July 29th, 2006, 06:25 AM
PIGGY'S USELESS OPINION
of 'Irresistible'

Okay... It didn't suck or anything, but it also was not that great. I like humorous episodes. But while this episode succeeded in making me laugh, I don't think I laughed any more than I do during most episodes. I think my favorite bit was McKay's and Sheppards' discussion of the old Batman show. ("Eartha Kitt played Catwoman" - "Not in season 3... You didn't know that?")

The good news is, between this episode and last week's, Beckett has gotten some serious amount of screen time and things to do. Certainly in this episode the character was treated more like the series regular he is than ever.

The talk of making an intergalactinc bridge was very interesting. I wonder how that's going to work? How do you dial a gate between galaxies? How will the coordinates work if a gate address is six symbols to determine a point within a specific three dimensional space, and every galaxy has its own set of glyphs - wouldn't that imply that a six symbol address will only work inside a galaxy? But hey, if it works, it'll be cool.

An avarage episode in any case, if that. Maybe next week we'll be back in business.

rarocks24
July 29th, 2006, 06:53 AM
and every galaxy has its own set of glyphs - wouldn't that imply that a six symbol address will only work inside a galaxy? But hey, if it works, it'll be cool.

No galaxy has it's own set of glyphs, you have to dial to another planet in that galaxy by using an eigth chevron, denoting the location more than likely in the local group assuming the 9th chevron is to dial outside the local group.

Ugly Pig
July 29th, 2006, 07:03 AM
No galaxy has it's own set of glyphs, you have to dial to another planet in that galaxy by using an eigth chevron, denoting the location more than likely in the local group assuming the 9th chevron is to dial outside the local group.
Yeah, but each galaxy does have a unique set of glyphs. I suppose they just look different (to match local stars) while serving the same function, though. But the point is; the MW gates and the Atlantis gates have different glyphs, don't they?

Major Tyler
July 29th, 2006, 07:12 AM
Yeah, but each galaxy does have a unique set of glyphs. I suppose they just look different (to match local stars) while serving the same function, though. But the point is; the MW gates and the Atlantis gates have different glyphs, don't they?I think the gates can be interchangable......because an MW gate was used in "Pegasus Project."I think the position is more important than the glyph. Position 1 on a Milky Way gate might be the constellation Orion, while position 1 on a Pegasus gate might be the constellation Scrunt, but they are effectively the same thing.

If you took a Pegasus gate to the Milky Way and wanted to use it there (because it's so preety ;)) all you would have to do is remember which PG symbol corresponded to which MW symbol. If the address needs you to to dial "Orion" you would dial "Scrunt" instead, and so on. You're effectively "hacking" into the Milky Way gate system with a PG gate.

Flowerbud
July 29th, 2006, 07:18 AM
None of the men or women under the influence of the pheromone gave consent. So, it was rape.

This episode was worse than the Tower. I was seriously disturbed by the episode. What is wrong with TPTB? Between the war criminal behavior of the Atlantis crew in the retrovirus arc and this sleazy episode that gives a wink and nudge at rape, I don't think I can watch this show anymore.

travis
July 29th, 2006, 07:19 AM
Not a bad ep at all. Really loved Carson and Weir in this, they were halarious.
I notice people have mention about the rape context but sorry I did'nt see it that way, maybe I'm oblivious to it or just did'nt interperet that way.:)

bluealien
July 29th, 2006, 07:30 AM
I enjoyed it. Didn't think I would after watching the first 10 minutes but it got better and better and by the end I found myself thoroughly enjoying it.

Lucius was really irriitating but he played the part well. It had some fantastic moments and Joe Flanigan was the star of the show. Great to see him getting more to do and seeing that Sheppard fire back again. Loved the way he stood up to Weir and the scene between him and Carson was priceless.

Lots of great moments for all the characters and I'm not going to dig too deeply into the darker aspects of Lucius. I have a feeling though that he won't be getting away with anything once the people on his planet are free of the drug.

8/10 and surprisingly an episode I will definitely be watching again.

Ugly Pig
July 29th, 2006, 07:31 AM
If you took a Pegasus gate to the Milky Way and wanted to use it there (because it's so preety ;)) all you would have to do is remember which PG symbol corresponded to which MW symbol. If the address needs you to to dial "Orion" you would dial "Scrunt" instead, and so on.
I agree. What I don't understand is how this will work between galaxies.

rarocks24
July 29th, 2006, 07:36 AM
I agree. What I don't understand is how this will work between galaxies.
This actually confused me. My interpretation for the intergalactic bridge was that the stargates would only act as transmitters, connecting and carrying the wormhole and keeping it stable over all those lightyears without straining the power source. There is no interruption in the wormhole, merely the set of stargates keep a stable wormhole going without having to draw power from the ZPM. Multiple stargates in one wormhole travel.

But I'm not a physicist and that should belong on Science and Tech, but I think I might go past that there too. :)

Alipeeps
July 29th, 2006, 07:39 AM
What the hell. This guy is a serial rapist who enslaved an entire village and basically tried to rape Dr. Weir, and all they do is send him back to his planet to go on living his life, without the herb?

They should have sent him along on the next trip back to Earth to stand trial.

Soooo.. as per the Misbegotten thread, one of the main complaints about the team's actions therein was that it was "arrogant" of humans to want to impose our own social and ethical/moral values onto a race/culture/society from another galaxy (the Wraith). Wouldn't we be doing exactly that again - exactly what people have been criticising the team for - if we attempted to impose our laws onto Lucius. Besides which, I think returning him to the tender mercies of the people he so mistreated is probably a worse punishment...

Aside from which - this episode was supposed to be - and was - fun and lighthearted.. not a damning indictment of the deeper moral consequences of using drugs on people without their knowledge. Sometimes you can over-analyse this stuff! :D

rarocks24
July 29th, 2006, 07:50 AM
Soooo.. as per the Misbegotten thread, one of the main complaints about the team's actions therein was that it was "arrogant" of humans to want to impose our own social and ethical/moral values onto a race/culture/society from another galaxy (the Wraith).

We had no other choice in turning them human. We had to get onto that hive ship and use it to get home. ;) And seeing as it's to our own survival to find an effective way of neutralizing the Wraith threat, I don't particularly blame them for the attempt. What was stupid was the complete and utter dishonesty they showed them. Had they lied and said that hey, you were human, and a long time ago, a virus came and turned into such and such, then I think they'd pretty much have continued taking the retrovirus until a more permanent solution was to be found.

It was sheer stupidity. In the reason for forcing their beliefs on another, it's in that culture's best interest. No two large cultures can coexist, particularly when they don't want to. Every society tries to dominate another, because it's in that culture's best interest. As to note, once you start doing it, you shouldn't stop. Africa would have been a lot better off under colonial rule than existing as independent states.

Alipeeps
July 29th, 2006, 07:52 AM
Sheppard returns to the planet and the colors are muted and the boobs are hidden. Because that's how you show despair, by covering of the breasts. Sad people don't have cleavage.


:lol: Funniest thing I have read all day! :D *Bows down and worships you* :D

rarocks24
July 29th, 2006, 07:57 AM
Sheppard returns to the planet and the colors are muted and the boobs are hidden. Because that's how you show despair, by covering of the breasts. Sad people don't have cleavage.
ROFLMAO!!!

:lol:

Alipeeps
July 29th, 2006, 08:00 AM
Australian, new zealand and english people call it "herb".

I think everyone except Americans call it "herb"... in the words of Eddie Izzard in his stand-up show in San Francisco, "Because it's got a ******* H in it!" *grin* :lol: :lol:

rarocks24
July 29th, 2006, 08:04 AM
I think everyone except Americans call it "herb"... in the words of Eddie Izzard in his stand-up show in San Francisco, "Because it's got a ******* H in it!" *grin* :lol: :lol:
Oh, are you referring to the tendency for Americans to pronounce it "erb" with a silent "h"?

Because that probably has something to do with the Spanish leaking into our language. You know that silent "h". :)

Alipeeps
July 29th, 2006, 08:06 AM
We had no other choice in turning them human. We had to get onto that hive ship and use it to get home. ;) And seeing as it's to our own survival to find an effective way of neutralizing the Wraith threat, I don't particularly blame them for the attempt. What was stupid was the complete and utter dishonesty they showed them. Had they lied and said that hey, you were human, and a long time ago, a virus came and turned into such and such, then I think they'd pretty much have continued taking the retrovirus until a more permanent solution was to be found.

It was sheer stupidity. In the reason for forcing their beliefs on another, it's in that culture's best interest. No two large cultures can coexist, particularly when they don't want to. Every society tries to dominate another, because it's in that culture's best interest. As to note, once you start doing it, you shouldn't stop. Africa would have been a lot better off under colonial rule than existing as independent states.

Oh I get that completely, believe me! I'm just saying that there was a lot of criticism (not by me!) of the team's actions in Misbegotten, citing this arrogance of the team... and then those same people making that complaint about one episode turn around and suggest that, in the next episode, the team are wrong for not displaying the very behaviour they had just been criticising! :lol: Just seems like our guys can't win sometimes... :D

pisces27
July 29th, 2006, 08:09 AM
I liked this ep, thought it would be like The Tower but I was pleasantly suprised.
It was funny and serious. Good character moments. I give it a 7.

Lt. Colonel Ryu Gaia
July 29th, 2006, 08:40 AM
I don't know if this analogy has been posted yet, I haven't read through the topic, but I think it's one many of you will agree with... This episode is to Atlantis what Urgo was to SG-1.

Major Tyler
July 29th, 2006, 08:41 AM
I don't know if this analogy has been posted yet, I haven't read through the topic, but I think it's one many of you will agree with... This episode is to Atlantis what Urgo was to SG-1.I don't recall Dom DeLuise's character raping anyone. :S

jckfan55
July 29th, 2006, 08:47 AM
I found the episode highly resistible.

rarocks24
July 29th, 2006, 08:53 AM
I found the episode highly resistible.
:lol:

This episode was terrible. I think the worst episode of this entire show, actually. I'm also considering blowing off it's sister episode, Irresponsible, too...

LaCroix
July 29th, 2006, 08:58 AM
I watched and was grateful the Shep wasn't the one that the women were going for. On the whole it reminded me of Star Trek's Mudd's Women.

Alipeeps
July 29th, 2006, 09:30 AM
I watched and was grateful the Shep wasn't the one that the women were going for. On the whole it reminded me of Star Trek's Mudd's Women.

Yeah someone else made that comparison... I guess Lucius is rather Harry Mudd-like.. :D

Serenity228
July 29th, 2006, 09:31 AM
Soooo.. as per the Misbegotten thread, one of the main complaints about the team's actions therein was that it was "arrogant" of humans to want to impose our own social and ethical/moral values onto a race/culture/society from another galaxy (the Wraith). Wouldn't we be doing exactly that again - exactly what people have been criticising the team for - if we attempted to impose our laws onto Lucius. Besides which, I think returning him to the tender mercies of the people he so mistreated is probably a worse punishment...

Aside from which - this episode was supposed to be - and was - fun and lighthearted.. not a damning indictment of the deeper moral consequences of using drugs on people without their knowledge. Sometimes you can over-analyse this stuff! :D

Ali, I agree 100%, but you and I are glass half full gals.

We have an episode where Sheppard acts like a military leader; he is both professional and handily stops the baddy without much violence and certainly no loss of life. It's a fun episode and one with humor and team dynamics. The team doesn't force their views on anyone else and Shep and Carson save the day.

So, after watching an episode that I thoroughly enjoyed, I think to myself that I hope other fans enjoyed the episode as a whole lot of fun after a few darker eps. Rather, I find Sheppard is still in trouble because he let a rapist go back to his own world to be judged by his own people.

I firmly believe that everyone is entitled to his or her own point of view, but I also think that some TV is supposed to be escapism. There is so much horror in the real world that I don't go searching for it in my escapism. Fun isn't always great art or high minded, because that might take the fun out of it! This was a goofy episode that I thought was inserted as comic relief after several heavy eps.

Even the tragic Greeks watched a comedy now and then and it enjoyed it. And if the high-minded Greeks thought it was okay to watch something funny and laugh, then that's good enough for me! ;)

napa244
July 29th, 2006, 09:31 AM
I hated this episode - fun shows are great, like the 100th episode of Stargate, but this was neither funny nor great. A few good lines, that's it. Too bad.

rarocks24
July 29th, 2006, 09:32 AM
Yeah someone else made that comparison... I guess Lucius is rather Harry Mudd-like.. :D
I actually object to them using the name Lucius. I'm sorry, but that's a complete insult to Mr. Malfoy in SO many ways.

Alipeeps
July 29th, 2006, 09:35 AM
I actually object to them using the name Lucius. I'm sorry, but that's a complete insult to Mr. Malfoy in SO many ways.

What cos Lucius Malfoy's such a lovely, kind, warm-hearted guy? :lol:

No copyright on names I'm afraid. You may as well say Dr Weir's christian name is an insult to Queen Elizabeth! :D :D

Michelle05
July 29th, 2006, 09:39 AM
I could see how all the actors were having a great time doing this episode, but I just didn't find it funny. Maybe it was my mood and I'll have to watch again, but I barely laughed at all. Some of the attempts at goofy, OTT acting were just cringe-worthy (sorry, Torri). I have loved humorous SG-1 eps: Urgo, even The Other Guys, but this didn't cut it. It's like I saw the whole premise in 10 seconds and it never changed. Urgo at least had a life-or-death reason for his attempts to manipulate the team.

I can't believe they're going to do another ep with this character. I guess it shows how different perspectives can be on what's funny.

macktheknife
July 29th, 2006, 10:02 AM
Just from the name Irresponsible, it sounds like he does something bad, and might not exactly be all that "funny" if you understand what I mean.

Fatewarns
July 29th, 2006, 10:04 AM
THis is the wackest, weirdest episode of Both Stargate series.
There is a undeniable charm that stops you from hating this episode.
Carson's meltdown best scene

Alipeeps
July 29th, 2006, 10:11 AM
Just from the name Irresponsible, it sounds like he does something bad, and might not exactly be all that "funny" if you understand what I mean.

Well what Lucius did in this ep was pretty irresponsible and, from the spoilers I've read for Irresponsible, he's up to more of the same in that ep - trying to find ways to trick people so as to gain respect/power.

Edited for typos.

LaCroix
July 29th, 2006, 10:12 AM
I actually object to them using the name Lucius. I'm sorry, but that's a complete insult to Mr. Malfoy in SO many ways.


I really think it's more of a play on the name Lucius/ Luscious.;)

Blue Banrigh
July 29th, 2006, 10:36 AM
I actually object to them using the name Lucius. I'm sorry, but that's a complete insult to Mr. Malfoy in SO many ways.
That's what this episode reminded me of, Lucius was a bit like Gilderoy Lockheart in Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets. The buffoon that captured the admiration of people through deception.

The one bit I found truly funny with Lavin was when he was pointing out who the baby he saved grew up to be. That was hilarious.

kris
July 29th, 2006, 10:52 AM
Silly episode, but entertaining for the most part. Hard to believe they wouldn't have caught on a whole lot earlier that this guy was using something to make everyone adore him. But it was worth watching to see Beckett blubber like a girl. I enjoyed it, had some funny lines. McKay's leer at Teyla at the end--agh!--:mckay: He's such a bad boy sometimes. I love him.

As for the coercive powers of the drug and how exposure to it effectively turned people into victims: perhaps that's why Lucius was written to be so sickeningly nice and non-hostile. The baker guy on a power trip. If he'd shown a darker nature this would've been a whole different episode. But they wrote it light, and that's how it played. The subject of rape: valid interpretations.

I also wonder if he had been young and handsome how that would've made a difference in how we perceived him.

kris

Alipeeps
July 29th, 2006, 10:54 AM
That's what this episode reminded me of, Lucius was a bit like Gilderoy Lockheart in Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets. The buffoon that captured the admiration of people through deception.

The one bit I found truly funny with Lavin was when he was pointing out who the baby he saved grew up to be. That was hilarious.

Good point - the character is in many ways similar to Lockheart. Using trickery (be it magic or drugs) to make himself what he is not in order to garner admiration and power.

Gotta love that moment you mentioned too: "Maybe a little brain-damaged, but just a little.." :lol:

Alipeeps
July 29th, 2006, 11:06 AM
Random thought here: Is it just me, or is Chuck the technician's accent a lot more noticeable in this ep? I've never really noticed him have all that strong a Canadian accent before but it really seemed to leap out at me in this ep - both when Sheppard and McKay ask him where Zalenka is and even more so when McKay asks him who's in jumper 3 - his "I dunno" seemed to be really accented?

Major Tyler
July 29th, 2006, 11:15 AM
Random thought here: Is it just me, or is Chuck the technician's accent a lot more noticeable in this ep? I've never really noticed him have all that strong a Canadian accent before but it really seemed to leap out at me in this ep - both when Sheppard and McKay ask him where Zalenka is and even more so when McKay asks him who's in jumper 3 - his "I dunno" seemed to be really accented?Well, Chuck is Canadian...

Fatewarns
July 29th, 2006, 11:23 AM
oh chuck, NNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

Alipeeps
July 29th, 2006, 11:31 AM
Well, Chuck is Canadian...

I know. That's what I'm saying... that I've never really noticed him having a particularly strong Canadian accent before (though admittedly I am a Brit and can't always distinguish that easily between American and Canadian accent - unless it's a really obvious one) and it just seemed a lot more noticeable in this ep.

I just wondered if anyone else thought the same?

sueKay
July 29th, 2006, 11:37 AM
I absolutely loved this eppy!

Okay...the plot was a bit flimsy, but Sheppard, Weir and McKay just shined in this eppy!

As the for the Lucious 'date rape' thing...the wife that the team spoke to said she's slept with him once before he discovered the potion (whatever), so I don't think it's classified as rape...plus it's not like his wives didn't enjoy it, and it seems that he was married to some of them before his discovery.

Just enjoy the episode for the piece or fluff it is :D

Ruined_puzzle
July 29th, 2006, 12:29 PM
Hey, did anyone else think Shep got a little "rawr" when Weir was feeling up Lucius?

I'm not a shipper, I swear... :D

I thought that too, but hey I'm biased :)

The episode was crack, pure and simple. I ignored the whole issue about rape because I don't think the writers were going there. The episode had some funny parts but I'm not going to rewatch. What I loved was that it made me love Sheppard. Can we have this Sheppard in every episode.

Alipeeps
July 29th, 2006, 12:51 PM
Another thought - was anyone else starting to get a distinct Monty Python vibe when the team all stood around lovingly gazing at Lucius' gourd? :lol: :lol:

Adrius
July 29th, 2006, 12:58 PM
The one bit I found truly funny with Lavin was when he was pointing out who the baby he saved grew up to be. That was hilarious.
Assuming he wasn't lying, then Lucius found a baby that was frozen solid but thawed out and came to life. We've seen this before... Ancient?

Sela
July 29th, 2006, 01:00 PM
What I loved was that it made me love Sheppard. Can we have this Sheppard in every episode.
I second that. I haven't liked Sheppard this much since the first season.

:sheppard: Can we keep him?

Annubis' hitman
July 29th, 2006, 01:10 PM
Ive already posted about this but i feel as though i need to again...


Funny episode.

Dont get worked up about the whole rape thing. It wasnt supposed to be that way and its a television show. just enjoy the funnyness of the episode.

Favorite part of the episode.

"Fly Lucias, Fly"

smushybird
July 29th, 2006, 01:26 PM
Hey, did anyone else think Shep got a little "rawr" when Weir was feeling up Lucius?

Nope. But then I'm not a shipper so I don't look for it. Tho' I did notice Rodney's hopeful little attempt to get Teyla to look at him with drug-induced interest. :D That was entertaining.

I do agree with you guys that I love this Sheppard. He was sweet and funny and tough and brave and fun with Beckett and with Rodney, just like the Shep of old. I would like to keep this Sheppard, too, please. :)

memnarch
July 29th, 2006, 03:06 PM
I was surprised by this episode. I was under the impression that it would be a straight up comedy episode and not have any real drama or resolution to it, but it did and I enjoyed it more than I thought I would. First off, I love Richard Kind in anything he's in, so I really enjoyed his performance here. I think the desire to be liked and to be admired is in everyone and that really came across in Lucius. Albeit he took it way too far, but still. Beckett was quite the prominant player here and I enjoyed what Paul McGillion did throughout the episode. Also, Rodney and Elizabeth's transformations were particularly funny. "Fly, Lucius! Fly..." will be my favorite McKay quote for a while. Though I don't think Ronon and Teyla's adoration went as far as they could have taken it, I liked that they once again actually did something. Looking ahead at the season, it doesn't look like Teyla will get any storylines devoted to her, which is a disappointment, although Ronon's "Sateda" next week looks excellent. My one big complaint with this episode is that it's far too predictable for Sheppard to be the one who saves the day. Give someone else a chance for once, fer cryin out loud!

Overall: 2.5/4 stars

caty
July 29th, 2006, 03:16 PM
I have to say that I was very sceptical about this ep...

And it turns out to be the funniest episode imaginable.. I was laughing so hard, it hurt..
These actors are the best just because they were able to film this without cracking up every single time! The scene in the jumper where Carson starts crying... How could Paul and Joe stay serious like that??? I was laughing out loud! I really wanna know how many takes some scenes took :D
I give this


10/10

starfox
July 29th, 2006, 03:29 PM
I just have to say, I will be so happy to hear the commentary for this ep on the Season 3 DVDs when they come out next year. It will be so much fun to listen to.

JohnDuh
July 29th, 2006, 03:35 PM
Funny with the funny, I thought Sg1 was amusing, but this was witless and predictable. I would also have liked to see a bit continuity with sg1, but oh well. At least now we know that guy playing ronon can actually act, and some of the villagers were unusually well endowed for US tv - thumbs up.

And for people going on about rape, grow up and get a life.

edain
July 29th, 2006, 03:35 PM
Definitely an interesting little sidetrip, this episode was... Ah, but who wouldn't want some of that herb/chemical? If only for “research purposes?”

Hell I might actually do it if it meant I had six wives that looked like that!

PG15
July 29th, 2006, 03:40 PM
I guess it just shows the signs of the times; even if something is created in light-hearted fun, everyone will always start thinking from the worst point.

For me, this was a fun and creepy little episode (like the Stepford Wives, really); it wasn't as funny as some here have said, but there were more than a few guffaws. All of the actors were exceptional, especially McGillion and Flanigan, and Richard Kind was just awesome.

Some points:

"Fly Lucius, fly!" - just the faces of Rodney and Zelenka sold it...in fact, Zelenka's face thoughout the episode was hilarious, like he was high or something. :D

Right before that "fly" quote, when everyone was clamboring towards the balcony, you can see McKay practically jumping over people to get ahead of everyone. Hilarious. :D

"Did you just say Gourds?" LOL. :D

I loved how Weir started fiddling with Lucius's "tie" later in the episode, it really felt real. I wonder if Torri did that when she was younger. ;)

McKay geeking out over Batman. :D

Carson crying - poor guy, John shouldn't have punched him, you know how delicate he is! :D

McKay trying a hand stand. :D

Being male, I did appreciate the eye candy in the little hamlet. ;)

Score: 7.5/10

Oh, one more thing. From the way this thread looks, it seems most people overreacted AGAIN to the spoilers. When will they ever learn? :p

SG1Atlantis
July 29th, 2006, 03:50 PM
This episode was really great. Very hilarious. Best parts had to the hair comments, "How do you get your hair to go like that?" and McKay at the end when he tried to get away w/trying the potion. Excellent acting by the entire cast in this ep, especially PM. Poor Beckettt.

vaberella
July 29th, 2006, 03:54 PM
Nope. But then I'm not a shipper so I don't look for it. Tho' I did notice Rodney's hopeful little attempt to get Teyla to look at him with drug-induced interest. :D That was entertaining.

I do agree with you guys that I love this Sheppard. He was sweet and funny and tough and brave and fun with Beckett and with Rodney, just like the Shep of old. I would like to keep this Sheppard, too, please. :)
I totally agree with you. It's quite funny that she kind of rolled her eyes at his attempt totally turned off.

That he even had the balls to do that, AFTER her incident with Lucius and could hurt him bad---it was cute. It's definitely great move on TPTB's part only becuase in S2, McKay and Teyla barely talked to one another....they only chatted in Epiphany and Aurora, so it was cute to see.

And we all know that McKay and even Carson were attracted to Teyla based on Rising, so again it was fun to see it. I felt like giving McKay a high five, and I'm a girl----it was a great try from a nerd. :D

Anyway I vicariously live through Teyla....I say rack up a score of how many guys you can get fawning over your fiestiness.
--------------------------------------

Yeah, Shep rocked the house. I think that working out for JF, is really working for him and his character as well. It was great how he definitely took charge and definitely went back to the way he was in Hot Zone, hopefully it's not a fluke for the moment and it's actually something he's going to stand by on for the long haul and forgo his military and friendship allegiance to Weir, when he needs to get the job done and protect his people.

VB

LoneStar1836
July 29th, 2006, 04:00 PM
I so wanted to hate this episode. And I mean really hate cause it looked like the stupidest thing ever based on the commercials and what little bit I had read. But fortunately for this episode, The Tower will still remain my most hated episode for now, and I’ve never even seen the whole thing….

Can’t believe I’m saying this but I actually enjoyed this episode…..for what it was of course…silly fluff meant for a good laugh. I knew going into it it was supposed to be a “funny” episode, but I figured it was going to be so unwatchable and cringe worthy that it would be too embarrassing to watch with other people in the room. I did cringe a little but not as much as I was prepared to.

Obviously too many of these types of episodes will rot the brain, but one every now and then isn’t so bad, I guess, as long as it’s a half way fun episode to watch and you let the logical part of your brain take a break.

I’m a big Wormhole X-treme! fan so I can like oddball episodes that others just deplore and then again I can really despise episodes that people really enjoy like Prometheus Unbound. As far as writing goes in the Stargate universe, I’ve come to expect the worst for some episodes in recent years after getting burned on episodes *cough* PU *cough* that I thought would be good. Luckily my instincts were wrong on this one.

Oka
July 29th, 2006, 04:53 PM
Ranks up there with "The Tower" as the dumbest and most pointless episode in the history of Stargate Atlantis. It started out sort of funny but then they just went overboard with the retardation. Awful.

2/10

Oh yeah, they screwed up AGAIN by letting that fat dude on the base in the first place, shoulda sent him back immediately.

derrickh
July 29th, 2006, 05:30 PM
As the for the Lucious 'date rape' thing...the wife that the team spoke to said she's slept with him once before he discovered the potion (whatever), so I don't think it's classified as rape...plus it's not like his wives didn't enjoy it, and it seems that he was married to some of them before his discovery.

Just enjoy the episode for the piece or fluff it is :D

So, what youre saying is that its not rape if the woman is too high or intoxicated to complain? If a man drugged up a college girl, raped her repeatedly, and then went to trial, you would vote to let him go because the girl was seemingly enjoying it(ignoring that her mind was altered by chemicals).

Also, watch the ep again. NONE of them slept with him before his discovery. They all disliked him. Then he drugged them and raped them. But I guess its okay because the director added funny music in the background which made his admission to rape humorous.

After reading pages of posts, I'm glad that others arent taking the rape aspect of this episode as lightly as some. But theres another thing that people are overlooking. Luscious also had sex with Teyla and Wier.

The man is a sexual predator and was on Atlantis with them for 2-4 days. Do you honestly believe he was absitnant for all that time? The same man who bragged about sleeping with 6 women at once? No. He wasnt. And especially after he showed so much interest in Teyla at his village and Wier in her office, you can safely say that he took advantage of the situation as soon as possible.


D

BubblingOverWithIdeas
July 29th, 2006, 05:32 PM
I actually object to them using the name Lucius. I'm sorry, but that's a complete insult to Mr. Malfoy in SO many ways.

I doubt it has anything to do with Mr. Coldandcreepy Malfoy. Lucius is a real-life first name. So is Lucian.


That Sheppard/McKay moment at the end was funny. It's sure to spawn a dozen slashfics.

.

gambit
July 29th, 2006, 05:35 PM
After reading pages of posts, I'm glad that others arent taking the rape aspect of this episode as lightly as some. But theres another thing that people are overlooking. Luscious also had sex with Teyla and Wier.
D

That is a big assumption on your part. There is nothing to suggest that Weir and Teyla slept with him. If he did, then you can believe Weir and Teyla would have really upset, not just embarrassed like they actually were, so I don't believe for a minute that he slept with them.

Merlin7
July 29th, 2006, 05:50 PM
That is a big assumption on your part. There is nothing to suggest that Weir and Teyla slept with him. If he did, then you can believe Weir and Teyla would have really upset, not just embarrassed like they actually were, so I don't believe for a minute that he slept with them.


This reaction/belief is not all that surprising. Tis the same type of reaction that insists Shep has slept with every woman he's simply smiled at when CANON proof shows he only slept with Teer.

Then again, I'm boggled at the rape thing. Sure, had the writers intended the ep to be about that. Be up in arms. But they so weren't going there. They aren't that deep. They aren't being ethical. They wrote pure crack. And it cracked me up.

Alipeeps
July 29th, 2006, 05:56 PM
After reading pages of posts, I'm glad that others arent taking the rape aspect of this episode as lightly as some. But theres another thing that people are overlooking. Luscious also had sex with Teyla and Wier.


Unfortunately for your argument - you have absolutely no canonical proof of that. You can assume whatever you like but unless there is actual mention of it in the episode then it's all just conjecture... and personally I am thinking Weir and Teyla would have acted rather differently at the end if that were the case.

At the end of the day you can read whatever you want to into an episode, you can interpret it any of a hundred different ways - as these episode discussion threads have shown - but I'm sure you can agree that the intent of this episode, on behalf of the writers and producers etc, was not in any way to deal with the subject of rape, to condone or glamourise it, or in any way to make some deep or meaningful social commentary. It was intended to be a light-hearted, entertaining episode.

And realistically... if a guy had the kind of powers that Lucius had.. who honestly thinks he would not take advantage of that to get himself a few pretty wives (and before anyone attacks me, I am not in any way saying I condone such behaviour etc etc... I am just looking at it realistically).

rarocks24
July 29th, 2006, 06:00 PM
I have a strong feeling that Weir would have killed, KILLED, KILLED Lucius if he had indeed slept with her, and Teyla, well, I have a feeling that some of that Wraith blood would have boiled to the surface long enough to learn an entirely sadistic and dangerous side of Teyla. She would have killed him, but very slowly. I have a feeling that if Steve was still around....well, I wouldn't be surprised if Steve had a meal.

gambit
July 29th, 2006, 06:03 PM
I have a strong feeling that Weir would have killed, KILLED, KILLED Lucius if he had indeed slept with her, and Teyla, well, I have a feeling that some of that Wraith blood would have boiled to the surface long enough to learn an entirely sadistic and dangerous side of Teyla. She would have killed him, but very slowly. I have a feeling that if Steve was still around....well, I wouldn't be surprised if Steve had a meal.

LOL. I agree about Teyla, Weir....probably would have Sheppard deal with him.;)

derrickh
July 29th, 2006, 06:07 PM
That is a big assumption on your part. There is nothing to suggest that Weir and Teyla slept with him. If he did, then you can believe Weir and Teyla would have really upset, not just embarrassed like they actually were, so I don't believe for a minute that he slept with them.

I dont think its a huge assumption. Its a logical step. If there was a character who ate compulsively and they put him in a room filled with chocolate bars. You can take the logical step and say he ate a few, even if the show never explicitly states it. Luscious had a huge sexual appetite. And to think that he didnt act on it even after expressing interest in these two women is the bigger assumption.

Wier and Teyla's lack of outrage is in keeping with the tone of the show. Maybe an after effect of the drugging is to be very forgiving. The show stated that Lucious' previous victims just got divorced from him, even after years of serial rape. Thats pretty forgiving. And it would be in line that Teyla and Wier both have the same type of reaction to their victimization as the women in the village.

D

Alipeeps
July 29th, 2006, 06:13 PM
I dont think its a huge assumption. Its a logical step.

See remarks above about canonical evidence. You can believe/assume whatever you like but that's all it will ever be. You stated it as fact that he slept with Weir and Teyla. You have no basis on which to state that fact.



Luscious had a huge sexual appetite. And to think that he didnt act on it even after expressing interest in these two women is the bigger assumption.

Wier and Teyla's lack of outrage is in keeping with the tone of the show. Maybe an after effect of the drugging is to be very forgiving. The show stated that Lucious' previous victims just got divorced from him, even after years of serial rape. Thats pretty forgiving. And it would be in line that Teyla and Wier both have the same type of reaction to their victimization as the women in the village.

D

Atlantis is not that kind of show and is not looking to deal with those kinds of issues - especially not in an episode like this. If this were Law & Order: Special Victims Unit then your assumptions might be relevant. But it's not.

PG15
July 29th, 2006, 06:21 PM
After reading pages of posts, I'm glad that others arent taking the rape aspect of this episode as lightly as some.

I'm slightly offended by this...

Some of us choose to "take it lightly" because we know it's not the writer's intent to showcase the "rape factor" of this plot. Hell, there are many MANY episodes of many MANY sci-fi shows where some weird guy has a machine or potion that makes other people behave strangely; it's just a regular sci-fi plot.

IMHO some of you are reading into a comedy episode way too deeply.


Luscious also had sex with Teyla and Wier.

The man is a sexual predator and was on Atlantis with them for 2-4 days. Do you honestly believe he was absitnant for all that time? The same man who bragged about sleeping with 6 women at once? No. He wasnt. And especially after he showed so much interest in Teyla at his village and Wier in her office, you can safely say that he took advantage of the situation as soon as possible.


D

All conjuncture, nothing more.

The Engineer
July 29th, 2006, 06:24 PM
It was a funny episode, aside from that nothing important happened. Just another filler.

PG15
July 29th, 2006, 06:27 PM
I dont think its a huge assumption. Its a logical step. If there was a character who ate compulsively and they put him in a room filled with chocolate bars. You can take the logical step and say he ate a few, even if the show never explicitly states it. Luscious had a huge sexual appetite. And to think that he didnt act on it even after expressing interest in these two women is the bigger assumption.


Excuse me, but eating a few chocolates and having sex with the female leads of the show are very VERY different things.

One does not automatically apply to the other.



Wier and Teyla's lack of outrage is in keeping with the tone of the show. Maybe an after effect of the drugging is to be very forgiving.

Or, you know, they didn't have sex with him.


The show stated that Lucious' previous victims just got divorced from him, even after years of serial rape. Thats pretty forgiving. And it would be in line that Teyla and Wier both have the same type of reaction to their victimization as the women in the village.

D

That was a joke made my Shep. We don't know what really happened.

themeangel
July 29th, 2006, 06:31 PM
I went into this episode thinking I would like it.
I loved the SG1 ep "URGO"
But this was not funny at all. And even boring at times.
Sheppard was the only one I could even watch without wanting to throw something at my TV.
They could have just mentioned the fact he had 6 wives.
But they had to continue on with the joke and talk about the sex
and being with them "All at the same time"
that's when the episode became not just Stupid but
Creepy, disturbing and disgusting.
How did the writers think Drugging woman and sleeping with them would be
"Funny"
The people who are saying "lighten up this is just TV." Must all be Males.
If I had a stick I would beat this episode till it died a slow death.
And even though I'm a big fan of this show I will be skipping the episode
"Irresponsible" where they plan on bringing back this character.

The Engineer
July 29th, 2006, 06:39 PM
Lucius Lavin is the Atlantis' equivalent of SG-1's Martin Lloyd.

Willow'sCat
July 29th, 2006, 06:46 PM
Nope. But then I'm not a shipper so I don't look for it. No I didn't see that I was too busy watching the slashy McKay/Sheppard interaction to notice anything else. :p

I do agree with you guys that I love this Sheppard. He was sweet and funny and tough and brave and fun with Beckett and with Rodney, just like the Shep of old. I would like to keep this Sheppard, too, please. :)Me too! This Sheppard I like a lot, but of course it will not last "reset eps" never do.

Sheppard was great, Joe did a wonderful job, I loved it when Beckett cried and Sheppard just looks at him...:D Was it me *probably* but when Weir/Sheppard and Beckett are first watching "the guy" was Sheppard going to say Beckett was behaving "gay" before Weir stepped in and called it smitten? Lol! That must be her fave expression she used it for McKay as well in Inferno.

For me the reason I really enjoyed it was the McKay/Sheppard interactions, I have really missed them playing off one and other like this, it is IMO the best thing about Atlantis, and coming off the SG-1 episode with it's not so nice lemon incident :rolleyes: haha it's so funny lets make threats against the guy deathly allergic to citrus. :rolleyes: Who saves our lives!:mckay: it was nice to see the genuine affection masked with contempt :D they have for one and other. Oh and if Sheppard is done with McKay's quarters *Pay back* he can come and be my personal maid anytime grrrrllll. :P

This was fluff the fluffiest of them all, I stand by my earlier post, but having now watched the ep, I see why some don't want to go into any kind of deep analysis of "the guys" actions. I guess seeing we do get a sequel to this episode we may just find out what did happen to him when he got back home. I am hoping some kind of poetic justice and he will be chemically castrated but then that is just me. :cool:

starfox
July 29th, 2006, 07:00 PM
They could have just mentioned the fact he had 6 wives.
But they had to continue on with the joke and talk about the sex
and being with them "All at the same time"
that's when the episode became not just Stupid but
Creepy, disturbing and disgusting.
How did the writers think Drugging woman and sleeping with them would be
"Funny"
The people who are saying "lighten up this is just TV." Must all be Males.



Nope. I am quite definitely female and found this episode quite funny. This wasn't meant to be a deep, intense, plot-furthering, character-developing episode. It was supposed to be comedic. Yes, it was over the top at points. But it was supposed to be. This was an episode where everyone got to goof off, and I see nothing wrong with that.

xfkirsten
July 29th, 2006, 07:04 PM
After reading pages of posts, I'm glad that others arent taking the rape aspect of this episode as lightly as some. But theres another thing that people are overlooking. Luscious also had sex with Teyla and Wier.

I am a woman. I live in an area that has quite a fair amount of crime - in the last year, three people (all on separate occasions) have been shot to death within about 100 yards of my apartment. I also sometimes come home late at night and have to walk a few blocks back to my apartment if there's no parking spaces left in my lot. So believe me when I say that rape is a big concern to me.

That being said, I did not find this episode offensive in that sense. I know full well that it was not meant to seriously imply any moral standard nor encourage such behavior. It was taken lightly because the whole episode was taken lightly. It was not meant to be demeaning, and so I did not take it as such. Personally, I thought the episode was fun and goofy, and a chance to see the team acting oddly and get a good laugh out of it.

In addition, like other posters, I really don't see how you can claim that he had sex with Teyla and Weir. Is it possible? Yes, as that was clearly his ultimate goal. But did it actually happen? Well, I certainly didn't see any evidence that points to that. Just because he wanted it doesn't mean that he actually got it in the end.

Blue Banrigh
July 29th, 2006, 08:08 PM
Lucius Lavin is the Atlantis' equivalent of SG-1's Martin Lloyd.
In what way?

trip64
July 29th, 2006, 08:24 PM
Have to say I agree with the 'naysayers'. Definately the worst Atlantis ep I've ever seen.

I started hating it about 3 minutes into it, and it only redeemed itself at the very end by not ending up as a 2 parter. The whole pheromone thing reeked of "Hathor" from season 1 SG1 and was ridiculous. The guy was let off way too easily, considering the manipulation (for whatever reason - his motivation wasn't even really explained).

Long story short, if you wanted to watch a decent Atlantis episode this week, SG1's ep covered for both series nicely. Certainly was much more exciting and relevant.

Lieutenant Reichwein
July 29th, 2006, 08:29 PM
What the hell. This guy is a serial rapist who enslaved an entire village and basically tried to rape Dr. Weir, and all they do is send him back to his planet to go on living his life, without the herb?

They should have sent him along on the next trip back to Earth to stand trial.

Agreed. The guy is a security threat as well. They should have put him on trial with the village members as the jury. He should be imprisioned for the rest of his life or executed.

Myn McGeek, Third Sentinel
July 29th, 2006, 08:35 PM
I don't recall Dom DeLuise's character raping anyone. :S
Really. I don't see the comparison. I liked "Urgo". I didn't like this one. Well, not enough to not watch it, but... I'm not watching it again. :S

And to those who didn't agree with Shep just leaving Lucius on his planet without any sort of punishment, well, think about how all those women are going to feel about the whole thing. I think they'll take care of the punishment. 0_0

Lieutenant Reichwein
July 29th, 2006, 08:37 PM
Really. I don't see the comparison. I liked "Urgo". I didn't like this one. Well, not enough to not watch it, but... I'm not watching it again. :S

And to those who didn't agree with Shep just leaving Lucius on his planet without any sort of punishment, well, think about how all those women are going to feel about the whole thing. I think they'll take care of the punishment. 0_0

If that means sterilizing him (if you know what I mean) and an execution following, then yeah that would be a fair punishment.

Major Tyler
July 29th, 2006, 08:40 PM
Lucius Lavin is the Atlantis' equivalent of SG-1's Martin Lloyd.In what way?Yeah. I don't remember Martin Lloyd raping anyone, either.

starfox
July 29th, 2006, 08:58 PM
*bangs head against desk. repeatedly*

Can we stop with the rape? Please? Can we just all agree to disagree?


Jesus, this turning out to be worse than the "Conversion" thread.

Karnius
July 29th, 2006, 09:29 PM
None of the men or women under the influence of the pheromone gave consent. So, it was rape.

This episode was worse than the Tower. I was seriously disturbed by the episode. What is wrong with TPTB? Between the war criminal behavior of the Atlantis crew in the retrovirus arc and this sleazy episode that gives a wink and nudge at rape, I don't think I can watch this show anymore.

I need to say i agree with most of your point, i didnt really like it either, he tricked alot of the atlantis crew and know the atlantis location, but hey let just put him back on his planet, not like he will not reveal where atlantis is on a death treath, after all his trustworty.......

Mitchell82
July 29th, 2006, 09:45 PM
Come on people, this is starting to get a little heated. I have to be honest I understand where some of you are getting the rape thing but come on, that was not the intent of the episode. This was ment to be a comical fun episode and it suceeded in doing that. I found it hilarious! My wife and I laughed so hard we didn't see the cat for hours!;) This was a fun episode and we need to see it as that. It was not ment to be serious. I think it added some life to the show which has been nothing but conflict over the last 8-10 episodes. I absoultly loved it and neither I or my wife ( a social worker) found it offensive. So lighten up people and get a sense of humor! If some of you didn't like it fine, but don't turn it into a bad episode of L&O SVU!

FoolishPleasure
July 29th, 2006, 09:54 PM
*bangs head against desk. repeatedly*

Can we stop with the rape? Please? Can we just all agree to disagree?


Jesus, this turning out to be worse than the "Conversion" thread.
Well, figure it is the same writers who thought the physical assault on Teyla in "Conversion" was a smoking hot romantic kiss. :rolleyes: So a lot of fans feel this is just the "guys" living out their frat boy fantasies again, right or wrong.

I just think its TPTB forgetting that there are a considerable number of intelligent females in their audience. I expected a horrid episode and actually had a bit of fun with it, but some of the posters here have a point.

It might have worked better if it had been Weir or Teyla who had the cold and were unaffected.

PG15
July 29th, 2006, 09:57 PM
Well, you know what they say, ignorance is bliss.

wyndhamfan
July 29th, 2006, 10:05 PM
Egads! It seems we can't watch an episode of Stargate Atlantis without reading discussions about a character (usually Sheppard) of rape, sexual harassment and battery. Enough already! It's JUST A TV SHOW!!

If you tell me, Nip/Tuck has more issues than Stargate Atlantis. Irresistible is just a fun romp - why can't we just take it as it is?

suse
July 29th, 2006, 10:20 PM
AM I the only one who said:
Harcourt! Harcourt Fenton Mudd!

And the actor sounded like a cross between Mudd and Uncle Arthur from Bewitched.

I'd give this a 4/10. Not hideous but also not nearly as funny as it was trying to be.
I found most of my amusement by removing myself from within the episode to wondering how much fun/how many takes the actors had/needed.

And yes, I agree that it was rape. Can you imagine the rage these people must feel for the guy?

Yes they were keeping it light. But it was socially irresponsible. There are date rape drugs out there. "But officer, she didn't say no! She was all over me!" Great.

Even more manipulative than Vala, And that is saying something.

Suse

PG15
July 29th, 2006, 10:25 PM
Egads! It seems we can't watch an episode of Stargate Atlantis without reading discussions about a character (usually Sheppard) of rape, sexual harassment and battery. Enough already! It's JUST A TV SHOW!!

If you tell me, Nip/Tuck has more issues than Stargate Atlantis. Irresistible is just a fun romp - why can't we just take it as it is?

Hold on a second, people are always saying how Stargate isn't tackling important issues. Well, apparently we do!

And to think, it was so subtle that I never picked up on it!

derrickh
July 29th, 2006, 10:25 PM
I dont understand why people point to the episode's 'intent' as an excuse. It doesnt matter what the intent was. What matters is what was on the screen. If someone hurts someone else, but they didn't 'intend' to do it, guess what, they're still responsible. The writers may have set out to create a funny lighthearted ep, but what they actually did was make a story that centered around rape and the victimization of a number of women. It would have been easy to avoid this by including a couple of throwaway lines. But they went out of their way to emphasize the sex on a number of occasions. So as far as the 'intent' goes, this episode doesnt get a pass.

Whether or not Lucious raped Wier and Teyla may be a point of contention (I am of the belief that he did) but was -IS- canon, is that he raped at least 6 women. He confessed that much to Shepard. And his punishment was....nothing. If, as some would suggest, only things that happen on screen are canon, then that means he got off with a slap on the wrist. Thats just not acceptable. If thats what constitutes a 'lighthearted and funny' episode, I would hate to see what they come up with when they want try to get serious.

D

PG15
July 29th, 2006, 10:30 PM
But in this case the intent was so far from what some people are getting out of it...it's like giving your wife a shirt with vertical stripes, only to have her be mad at you for thinking that she's too fat, when you thought that the shirt looked pretty.

You know what I mean?

Easter Lily
July 29th, 2006, 10:50 PM
I'm not entirely convinced by the rape assertions although I can see why people might see it that way. My take is that Lucius is a con-man... I think Sheppard called him a "snake oil salesman". He didn't force himself on these women but he sold them an illusion... that he was more attractive/desirable than what he was. It doesn't make him less of a villain because he still used deception to get what he wanted.
I see him more as a cult figure... someone who has brainwashed his followers into believing that he's a god and that giving yourself over sexually to that man, you are attaining "true" spirituality or goodness.

RoryJ
July 29th, 2006, 11:18 PM
Come on people, this is starting to get a little heated. I have to be honest I understand where some of you are getting the rape thing but come on, that was not the intent of the episode. This was ment to be a comical fun episode and it suceeded in doing that. I found it hilarious! My wife and I laughed so hard we didn't see the cat for hours!;) This was a fun episode and we need to see it as that. It was not ment to be serious. I think it added some life to the show which has been nothing but conflict over the last 8-10 episodes. I absoultly loved it and neither I or my wife ( a social worker) found it offensive. So lighten up people and get a sense of humor! If some of you didn't like it fine, but don't turn it into a bad episode of L&O SVU!

Agreed 500%! Thank you!

The whole rape thing is just too far from the scope of the episode to me. In my mind, it was equivocal to the sleezy guy in a bar who keeps on buying a girl drink after drink, knowing that she's gonna "loosen up" and do something she'll regret. It's disgusting, and so was Lucius. But it didn't leave me feeling morally diminished by TPTB failing to have a public-service announcement condeming this reprehensible man. It just isn't what this episode was meant to be.
If you are really stuck on the rape issue, then find solace in the fact that the scumbag was returned to the scene of his original crime and that those people will probably skin him alive. And so they should. I expect Heightmeyer will have quite a full docket for the next few weeks as well. And that's good enough for me.
I took from this episode what the episode meant to give - a light-hearted stroll before we hit the angst of the next four episodes. :)

Quinn Mallory
July 29th, 2006, 11:25 PM
Quite an entertaining episode, imho. Very enjoyable with some good lines.

Yes, there may had been some morality issue but the subjects were indeed happy to do things for Lucius. Of course, it's due to the brainwashing from the exposure to the chemical but it's definitely not "rape".

If anything, this just goes to show that the Atlantis team is perhaps too vulnerable. I know that they are NOT a military operation but between the Last Goodbye in season 2 and this episode, it seems a bit too easy to infiltrate the Atlantis base. Hopefully, this will be somewhat addressed in a future episode.

RoryJ
July 29th, 2006, 11:31 PM
Well, they weren't counting on Carson openly breaching protocol. Of course, he can't really be punished for it, but Elizabeth or Sheppard really should have turned him right back around and sent him back through the gate. That's a bit of hindsight bias, though. I can see how he would have seemed nothing more than a nuisance at the time.

As for TLG? (Shakes head that Sheppard could EVER be allowed to be host to Thalan. But it's way over and done. ;))

Shep'sSocks
July 29th, 2006, 11:47 PM
None of the men or women under the influence of the pheromone gave consent. So, it was rape.

This episode was worse than the Tower. I was seriously disturbed by the episode. What is wrong with TPTB? Between the war criminal behavior of the Atlantis crew in the retrovirus arc and this sleazy episode that gives a wink and nudge at rape, I don't think I can watch this show anymore.

I think the point was to be seriously disturbed. Lucious starts out as a comic character that we're meant to laugh at and then without changing the way he plays it, we get creeped out by him. I note that writing about such things doesn't not mean that TPTB approve of them.

Shep'sSocks
July 29th, 2006, 11:49 PM
I'm not entirely convinced by the rape assertions although I can see why people might see it that way. My take is that Lucius is a con-man... I think Sheppard called him a "snake oil salesman". He didn't force himself on these women but he sold them an illusion... that he was more attractive/desirable than what he was. It doesn't make him less of a villain because he still used deception to get what he wanted.
I see him more as a cult figure... someone who has brainwashed his followers into believing that he's a god and that giving yourself over sexually to that man, you are attaining "true" spirituality or goodness.

I'm convinced. I don't see him much different than someone who slips a date rape drug in a drink. What I'm not seeing is that the writers approved of Lucious' behaviour. Had they done so, I think we'd have seen a vastly different episode.

Elinor
July 29th, 2006, 11:50 PM
Oh this episode was a lot of fun! I really loved it!

Everyone was on cracking form, but I especially enjoyed Joe's and Paul's performances. Their scene in the puddle jumper was fab...'Buck up Carson!' http://www.clicksmilies.com/s0105/lachen/laughing-smiley-002.gif

Shep in charge is a joy to watch (and wow! He even coughs sexily!) and Carson crying is always a treat!

Other highlights for me were...

Yay! 'The Hair' got a mention.

Batman and Catwoman scene....hee!

McKay trying to walk on his hands plus the look he gives Teyla at the end!

Elizabeth being all girly!

Richard Kind's Lucias. A creepy charmer...or should it be a charming creep?! A good addition to the list of Stargate characters.

....oh...and lastly...Shep's big boots! http://www.clicksmilies.com/s0105/grinser/grinning-smiley-018.gif

derrickh
July 29th, 2006, 11:54 PM
Yes, there may had been some morality issue but the subjects were indeed happy to do things for Lucius. Of course, it's due to the brainwashing from the exposure to the chemical but it's definitely not "rape".



Okay, for everyone who said that I was overreacting, the above statement is the reason why I am. Please read it carefully.
That is what is so dangerous about treating a subject like this so dismissively. This episode, even if unintentionally, is reinforcing and validating this type of thinking.

Exposing someone to a chemical that weakens their mind to a point where they can not coherently consent to sex is rape. It is definately rape. No "quotes" are needed. Whether its dropping ruffies in a coke, or getting a girl so drunk she cant walk, or using some made up space herb. It doesnt matter one bit if the person under the influence is smiling and giggling the entire time because of their diminished capacity. Dont go through life thinking that it's okay to do something like that.

D

JanusAncient
July 30th, 2006, 12:10 AM
The episode was completely pointless. I have to say, I didn't get the rape thing, but I did find it disturbing the way Rodney looked at Teyla, when it was discovered that he still had some of that herb in his room. I don't think that he had sex with Weir, or Teyla, he was too busy trying to influence everyone, that's what he spent most of his time doing. Still, I am in agreement the dismissive attitude is no good, shouldn't be tolerated. They shouldn't have allowed him to leave Atlantis, with the information in his possession. None of those women had the ability to consent, they saw this projection, this illusion that he created, so everytime he had sex with any of them, they weren't actually having sex with him, but rather an image that was a direct result of that herbs effects.

PG15
July 30th, 2006, 12:14 AM
You got it all wrong; we're not saying it's ok, it's just that it wasn't the "point" of this episode, and thus some of us don't want to let it ruin our perception of a, once again, comedic episode.

Hell, you can read disturbing details in practically anything these days. For one, I can see racism in "Being Ian" (kids cartoon), doesn't mean it's meant to be there or at all anything more than just a figment of my imagination.

And, did you know that Cirque du soleil promotes homosexuality? ;) (You need to watch some Colbert Report)

xfkirsten
July 30th, 2006, 12:19 AM
And, did you know that Cirque du soleil promots homosexuality? ;) (You need to watch some Colbert Report)

Well, knowing some of the people who perform Cirque du Soleil... ;)

/former crew member for a Cirque-style show
//has friends who've done Cirque du Soleil
///watch out for bears!

PG15
July 30th, 2006, 12:30 AM
///watch out for bears!

:D:D:D

Anyway, I think my point is pretty clear. You can read this sort of "controversy" into all kinds of different things if you try hard enough.

Hell, that's pretty much all you do in English class when dissecting poems and short stories.

Fatewarns
July 30th, 2006, 12:34 AM
I'm not entirely convinced by the rape assertions although I can see why people might see it that way. My take is that Lucius is a con-man... I think Sheppard called him a "snake oil salesman". He didn't force himself on these women but he sold them an illusion... that he was more attractive/desirable than what he was. It doesn't make him less of a villain because he still used deception to get what he wanted.

like the Sheppard said he's a con. All he really did is change the outlook of himself to the women. Making himself appear to be a better person than he is.

For example an man tells a devout Chirstian woman he just met that he donates to the church everyday. So the Chirstian woman marries the man thinking he is a good person, but finds out that he isn't donating to the church, he's buying drugs.

Edit: or a women putting on make up to appear pretty than she is. or a man putting on tag-body spray

starfox
July 30th, 2006, 12:52 AM
Well, knowing some of the people who perform Cirque du Soleil... ;)

/former crew member for a Cirque-style show
//has friends who've done Cirque du Soleil
///watch out for bears!


*takes a moment for awe/jealously of your former position*

And, back on-topic.


To tackle the rape issue, I don't think it's a matter of whether Lucius' actions towards women were rape or not, but whether or not the writers intended it to be so. Yes, by definition of the word rape, Lucius did rape those women, but I am sure that is not what the writers intended. I mean, c'mon, haven't you ever said something or written something only to come back later and see a completely different meaning than the one you intended? The only difference here is that the mistake is taped and on screen for people to willingly misinterpret and get offended about. Yes, as the story is written Lucius raped those women on his planet; I'm not arguing against that. The question is, did the writers mean for it to be rape? Did they mean to delve into the consent and explotation issues therein? And I do not believe that they did. The issues may be there, but I don't think they're intentional.

HyperspaceDaemon
July 30th, 2006, 01:39 AM
Funny episode.
I disliked that the ending was very incomplete and hasty: we didn't see how Lucius was "welcomed" back to his village. It would have been a funny scene.

It's a shame that many episodes end like that: with a very quick resolution.
45min are not enough, and the producers need to cut from somewhere.

Thunderhawk
July 30th, 2006, 02:48 AM
Well, they could just mention what happened afterwards in a later episode.

I think it could work in a dark episode, or to introduce a new cold-hearted soldier (or have Bates return)

Have the episode start off in a neutral tone with a short briefing to Weir by the Sgt of an Atlantis team that went to that planet to check up on the people/investigate a lead. In the briefing he can mention "we went to planet ...[forgot planet name] "

Weir: "hmm. " - tight mouthed, obvioussly still somewhat embarassed.

Sgt: "The people have recovered from Lucius' effect and seem to be doing fine, except for Lucius".

Weir: - small smirk on her face.

Sgt: "When the people figured out what he had done to them, they didnt take it well". *short pause* "A mob hung him in the village square".

Weir: looks up, look of shock.

Sgt: - unflinching, he continues with his report, and includes something of actual importance which will be an issue in the episode
(Maybe there is a ZPM on that planet, a Genii agent who got trapped by Lucian and has nowhere else to go or a scientist/trader who has information about something of value: that ZPM idea again)





After checking IRRESPONSIBLE and seeing the actor Richard Kind is back for another episode.. Im guessing the consequences of his actions arent going to be just left as is.

I hope they do more then just say he was "run out of town" or he cried "everybody hated me, again"



Hes a good actor, I just dont like his character (though he did it well) and I believe his character should be punished.

wyndhamfan
July 30th, 2006, 04:29 AM
I wasn't sure what to think about it at first - I was pretty neutral about it when I first heard the spoilers, but was pleasantly surprised by how funny it is - and how the characters shined. This was an ep where you see the characters OOC, so I lurve it! :) Favourite moments:

Shep and McKay - Batman and Catwoman! Geeks ahoy... ;)

Ronon staring at McKay, saying, "You got a problem with that?" McKay pointing to Shep, "No, but he might."

Ronon smiling serenly and saying, "A very wise and kind man."

Shep hitting Carson and saying, "Buck up Carson!"

McKay: "Fly, Lucius, Fly!"

Carson sobbing, "But he needs me!!" ROTFL! Shep staring at Carson as he sobs. :D

At the end, Shep to McKay: "I'll be back to clean your quarters ...**" He used the potion on poor Shep!! HAHAHA! OMG.

** I couldn't hear what 100% Shep said to McKay though. Can anyone fill me in?

Flowerbud
July 30th, 2006, 05:18 AM
I dont understand why people point to the episode's 'intent' as an excuse. It doesnt matter what the intent was. What matters is what was on the screen. If someone hurts someone else, but they didn't 'intend' to do it, guess what, they're still responsible. The writers may have set out to create a funny lighthearted ep, but what they actually did was make a story that centered around rape and the victimization of a number of women. It would have been easy to avoid this by including a couple of throwaway lines. But they went out of their way to emphasize the sex on a number of occasions. So as far as the 'intent' goes, this episode doesnt get a pass.

Whether or not Lucious raped Wier and Teyla may be a point of contention (I am of the belief that he did) but was -IS- canon, is that he raped at least 6 women. He confessed that much to Shepard. And his punishment was....nothing. If, as some would suggest, only things that happen on screen are canon, then that means he got off with a slap on the wrist. Thats just not acceptable. If thats what constitutes a 'lighthearted and funny' episode, I would hate to see what they come up with when they want try to get serious.

D

I completely agree. The light-hearted, comedic tone just further drives home the point that the producers and writers are willing to trivialize the issues of rape and the victimization of women. If this show had any glimmerings of emotional honesty, those women on the planet and Weir and Teyla would feel horribly violated. It's the big elephant in the room that the boys at Bridge choose to ignore because it just gets in the way of their sexist fun.

Flowerbud
July 30th, 2006, 05:28 AM
like the Sheppard said he's a con. All he really did is change the outlook of himself to the women. Making himself appear to be a better person than he is.

For example an man tells a devout Chirstian woman he just met that he donates to the church everyday. So the Chirstian woman marries the man thinking he is a good person, but finds out that he isn't donating to the church, he's buying drugs.

Edit: or a women putting on make up to appear pretty than she is. or a man putting on tag-body spray

There's massive difference between using a drug to get sex from a person who wouldn't otherwise have sex with you, to dressing nicely and chatting up that person/lying to the person, etc. It's against the law to do the former.

Merlin7
July 30th, 2006, 05:50 AM
Okay, for everyone who said that I was overreacting, the above statement is the reason why I am. Please read it carefully.
That is what is so dangerous about treating a subject like this so dismissively. This episode, even if unintentionally, is reinforcing and validating this type of thinking.

Exposing someone to a chemical that weakens their mind to a point where they can not coherently consent to sex is rape. It is definately rape. No "quotes" are needed. Whether its dropping ruffies in a coke, or getting a girl so drunk she cant walk, or using some made up space herb. It doesnt matter one bit if the person under the influence is smiling and giggling the entire time because of their diminished capacity. Dont go through life thinking that it's okay to do something like that.

D

Then let's please point out that RODNEY took the drug to INFLUENCE Sheppard. Which should also be talked about and people who believed this ep was about rape and I'll call it raping of the mind at this point, then everyone on Atlantis was at risk, even though Lucius wasn't looking to jump the men. But at the same time it's the same idea and that makes Rodney as bad as Lucius. He used it knowing Shep was the only one it would work on, and he leered at Teyla. And in a way it's worse because Rodney suffered through it, then used it to get Shep to do his bidding.

So where is the commentary about what Rodney did?

Alipeeps
July 30th, 2006, 06:18 AM
I'm not entirely convinced by the rape assertions although I can see why people might see it that way. My take is that Lucius is a con-man... I think Sheppard called him a "snake oil salesman". He didn't force himself on these women but he sold them an illusion... that he was more attractive/desirable than what he was. It doesn't make him less of a villain because he still used deception to get what he wanted.
I see him more as a cult figure... someone who has brainwashed his followers into believing that he's a god and that giving yourself over sexually to that man, you are attaining "true" spirituality or goodness.

Precisely - now that is more of a relevant comparison. His followers (for that's what they are) are effectively brainwashed, just like those in a cult (who happily do anything and everything their cult leader asks).

However, I fear this is one of those discussions that is just going to wind on and on and on... people are gonna view the episode through the filter of their own personal experience and preconceptions and if the first thing that speings to mind when you view this episode is "rape!" then nothing's gonna alter that viewpoint.

Major Tyler
July 30th, 2006, 06:36 AM
So where is the commentary about what Rodney did?I'm pretty sure Rodney didn't rape John...wouldn't that be an interesting episode! :S :P

I realize that TPTB didn't intend for rape and consent issues to be the focus of the episode, but the moment that woman Shep talked to said "I refused to share his bed on more than one occasion" how could TPTB expect us to draw any other conclusions? It's clear as day and canon for at least this one wife...she refused to sleep with him before Lavin got the herb, and now she sleeps with him because of it. The very definition of rape.

Let's look at this another way. What if Lavin took Teyla and Elizabeth to bed at the same time? What if he had sex with them? What would Teyla and Liz have to say about that once Carson cured them? Would we just let Lavin go, or would we castrate him and feed him to Michael?

Merlin7
July 30th, 2006, 06:51 AM
I'm pretty sure Rodney didn't rape John...wouldn't that be an interesting episode! :S :P

I realize that TPTB didn't intend for rape and consent issues to be the focus of the episode, but the moment that woman Shep talked to said "I refused to share his bed on more than one occasion" how could TPTB expect us to draw any other conclusions? It's clear as day and canon for at least this one wife...she refused to sleep with him before Lavin got the herb, and now she sleeps with him because of it. The very definition of rape.

Let's look at this another way. What if Lavin took Teyla and Elizabeth to bed at the same time? What if he had sex with them? What would Teyla and Liz have to say about that once Carson cured them? Would we just let Lavin go, or would we castrate him and feed him to Michael?


Part of the issue has been that it's a RAPE DRUG. Whether that was Rodney's intent isn't the issue. A rape drug makes a person lose control of their, control options. So to speak. It happened to Rodney and Ronon and Beckett. Male or female. Rodney gave the drug to Sheppard, regardless of his intent for it and he LEERED at TEyla. So how is he different than Lucius then? He still took away Sheppard's control.

Basically. The writers weren't going down this route at all. They didn't care about THIS issue. And there's no canon support that Teyla or Weir were raped. Everyone was just embarrassed by their actions. But if Lucius is going to be called on giving the drug and the drug is being called a date rape drug. Then Rodney giving it, even to Shep is wrong. And his leering at Teyla before he left is wrong. I just want either everyone called on it, or it dropped.

Auralis
July 30th, 2006, 06:54 AM
Gah, this was not bad, it was a atrocity against humanity.
The whole thing was completly disguesting and an insult.
It was not funny at all, it just highlights again how stupid the atlantis crew gets written.
gah, the worst episode of the entire francises.

This episode should never have been thought up in the first place. extending the sg1 pegasus project to a two parter instead og this steaming pile of horse dung is what should have been done.

And on the heels of the as well not good misbegotten.. if this trend continues the show is more then dead, its already rotten.

god i'm disgusted at this pile of crap.

Willow'sCat
July 30th, 2006, 06:58 AM
Then let's please point out that RODNEY took the drug to INFLUENCE Sheppard. Which should also be talked about and people who believed this ep was about rape and I'll call it raping of the mind at this point, then everyone on Atlantis was at risk, even though Lucius wasn't looking to jump the men. But at the same time it's the same idea and that makes Rodney as bad as Lucius. He used it knowing Shep was the only one it would work on, and he leered at Teyla. And in a way it's worse because Rodney suffered through it, then used it to get Shep to do his bidding.

So where is the commentary about what Rodney did?You are right it was wrong what Rodney did, I was hoping to just put the rape stuff aside but here we are. If this was a fanfic, I would enter it with warnings about non-con and possible rape. Make my own mind up if I want to go there.

You will not get an arguement on this out of me. Rape is rape be it of the mind or body. :cool:

Sela
July 30th, 2006, 08:00 AM
The people who are saying "lighten up this is just TV." Must all be Males.

Nope, female here with a combination of over 60 hours of hard labor in childbirth to prove it.


Nope. I am quite definitely female and found this episode quite funny. This wasn't meant to be a deep, intense, plot-furthering, character-developing episode. It was supposed to be comedic. Yes, it was over the top at points. But it was supposed to be. This was an episode where everyone got to goof off, and I see nothing wrong with that.
Well said. I completely agree.

Sela
July 30th, 2006, 08:12 AM
Originally Posted by derrickh
After reading pages of posts, I'm glad that others arent taking the rape aspect of this episode as lightly as some. But theres another thing that people are overlooking. Luscious also had sex with Teyla and Wier.


Yeah. I don't remember Martin Lloyd raping anyone, either.


*bangs head against desk. repeatedly*

Can we stop with the rape? Please? Can we just all agree to disagree?


Jesus, this turning out to be worse than the "Conversion" thread.
You're right. It's enough already.

No one here is saying rape is in any form or by any means is to be condone or winked at. To imply that posters who see this episode in a different light have done so is insulting and out of line. To disagree with a veiwpoint and express your own is acceptable and welcome but to insult your fellow posters is not and needs to stop. Now.

buzlighty1
July 30th, 2006, 08:20 AM
Its one of the types of episodes that can't quite keep your attention for very long. Its too similar to mudd's women from star trek.

Sela
July 30th, 2006, 08:25 AM
Then let's please point out that RODNEY took the drug to INFLUENCE Sheppard. Which should also be talked about and people who believed this ep was about rape and I'll call it raping of the mind at this point, then everyone on Atlantis was at risk, even though Lucius wasn't looking to jump the men. But at the same time it's the same idea and that makes Rodney as bad as Lucius. He used it knowing Shep was the only one it would work on, and he leered at Teyla. And in a way it's worse because Rodney suffered through it, then used it to get Shep to do his bidding.

So where is the commentary about what Rodney did?
Thank you.

And who says he wasn't after the men sexually as well? He was alone with both Carson and Rodney for a long time. ;)

As for increased phermones for attracting the opposite sex, how many of you ladies and gents have checked out the website of the perfume you've been wearing? There are a number of them that claim to use synthetic phermones or are working on doing so.

Merlin7
July 30th, 2006, 08:39 AM
Thank you.

And who says he wasn't after the men sexually as well? He was alone with both Carson and Rodney for a long time. ;)

As for increased phermones for attracting the opposite sex, how many of you ladies and gents have checked out the website of the perfume you've been wearing? There are a number of them that claim to use synthetic phermones or are working on doing so.


Welcome. And good point. If people are going to go there, he was very touchy feely with the men too and let's face it. Carson and Rodney and Ronon were SMITTEN.

And wow, I didn't realize that about perfumes. Thanks for that info.

bluealien
July 30th, 2006, 09:01 AM
Well, figure it is the same writers who thought the physical assault on Teyla in "Conversion" was a smoking hot romantic kiss. :rolleyes: So a lot of fans feel this is just the "guys" living out their frat boy fantasies again, right or wrong.

I just think its TPTB forgetting that there are a considerable number of intelligent females in their audience. I expected a horrid episode and actually had a bit of fun with it, but some of the posters here have a point.

It might have worked better if it had been Weir or Teyla who had the cold and were unaffected.

Well maybe some posters did think the kiss in Conversion was a smoking hot kiss - but that got hugely blown out of porportion as well.

Why would it have made any difference if it had been Teyla or Weir that had the cold.?

The episode was just a bit of fluff - I'm sure Lucius wives dealt with him once he got back to his own planet. We don't know what kind of punishment he may have received. Sheppard didn't like or agree with what Lucius was but it wasn't up to him to dish out any punishment. Thats why he took him back to his own planet for his own people to deal with him.

bluealien
July 30th, 2006, 09:01 AM
Well, figure it is the same writers who thought the physical assault on Teyla in "Conversion" was a smoking hot romantic kiss. :rolleyes: So a lot of fans feel this is just the "guys" living out their frat boy fantasies again, right or wrong.

I just think its TPTB forgetting that there are a considerable number of intelligent females in their audience. I expected a horrid episode and actually had a bit of fun with it, but some of the posters here have a point.

It might have worked better if it had been Weir or Teyla who had the cold and were unaffected.

Well maybe some posters did think the kiss in Conversion was a smoking hot kiss - but that got hugely blown out of porportion as well.

Why would it have made any difference if it had been Teyla or Weir that had the cold.?

The episode was just a bit of fluff - I'm sure Lucius wives dealt with him once he got back to his own planet. We don't know what kind of punishment he may have received. Sheppard didn't like or agree with what Lucius was but it wasn't up to him to dish out any punishment. Thats why he took him back to his own planet for his own people to deal with him.

duffarama
July 30th, 2006, 09:06 AM
LOL, this was one of the damn funniest episodes I have ever seen. I nearly got a heart attack from laughing. Excellent! :D

ladysarah
July 30th, 2006, 09:39 AM
Then let's please point out that RODNEY took the drug to INFLUENCE Sheppard. Which should also be talked about and people who believed this ep was about rape and I'll call it raping of the mind at this point, then everyone on Atlantis was at risk, even though Lucius wasn't looking to jump the men.

You might be hanging out in the wrong forums, but that has been talked about (created quite a stir in some quarters).

With varied responses. Essentially Rodney used a 'love potion' knowing that Sheppard would be the only one effected.

Discuss: What does this say about Rodney?

Does Rodney want Sheppard to like him that much?

Of course the writers really didn't think about that did they? But it still brings up a whole lot of interesting scenarios.

Chailyn
July 30th, 2006, 09:40 AM
My absolute favorite moment of this ep was watching Rodney trying to do a handstand in Weir's office. Butt up in the air, still yapping even with his head at the floor. What form! Rodney must have hated gym class. He probably had to do girl push-ups, lol. :)

There were so many other parts that gave me a chuckle as well. Weir playing with Lucius's tie around his neck. Anyone think that maybe subconsciously she was trying to strangle him?

Also, Ronon hugging his bag of sticks. Enough said! And the Batman conversation between McKay and Shep was awesome. I hope they continue to expand on the friendship between these two. They act off each other so well! I love their body language in that scene. Bravo guys!

As far as the rape issue, yes I believe he raped those women on his homeworld. No, I don't think he raped any members of the expedition. I don't think even he would have had the guts after seeing the power of Atlantis, especially with Sheppard still clogged up. Therefore, I think the team made a decent decision sending him home. His people should make him answer for his crimes based on their justice system. Hopefully, it involves loss of certain body parts or functions. ;)

Sela
July 30th, 2006, 09:45 AM
You might be hanging out in the wrong forums, but that has been talked about (created quite a stir in some quarters).

With varied responses. Essentially Rodney used a 'love potion' knowing that Sheppard would be the only one effected.

Discuss: What does this say about Rodney?

Does Rodney want Sheppard to like him that much?

Of course the writers really didn't think about that did they? But it still brings up a whole lot of interesting scenarios.
The stuff of which extremely interesting fan fiction is made up of. I can just hear massive numbers of pens scratching across paper even now...

ladysarah
July 30th, 2006, 09:48 AM
The stuff of which extremely interesting fan fiction is made up of. I can just hear massive numbers of pens scratching across paper even now...

You bet. At the least we have canon that Sheppard has been in Rodney's quarters!

I bet Sheppard has never been in Weir quarters! ;)

StarGi
July 30th, 2006, 10:10 AM
Have you noticed how McKay checked out Teyla at the very end? What was that about? I thought Carter is his fantasy!

ladysarah
July 30th, 2006, 10:12 AM
Have you noticed how McKay checked out Teyla at the very end? What was that about? I thought Carter is his fantasy!

Yeah well. Maybe he likes brunettes as well.

Gregorius
July 30th, 2006, 10:12 AM
Discuss: What does this say about Rodney?

Does Rodney want Sheppard to like him that much?

Or Rodney is taking revenge on Sheppard after that little lemon trick Sheppard pulled in Project Pegasus. (Sheppard gave Mitchell advice on how to handle Rodney, and gave Mitchell a lemmon in front of Rodney:
Sheppard: "He's also deadly allergic to citrus. I keep one with me at all times, it's just a comfort to know *Throws lemmon to Mitchell and Rodney sees it* it's there."
Mitchell: "That's good intel thanks."

Sela
July 30th, 2006, 10:15 AM
Have you noticed how McKay checked out Teyla at the very end? What was that about? I thought Carter is his fantasy!
Women are McKay's fantasy - any and all of them. LOL!

I would have loved to see Shep's reaction when he realises Rodney used the drug on him! LOL!!!

ladysarah
July 30th, 2006, 10:16 AM
Or Rodney is taking revenge on Sheppard after that little lemon trick Sheppard pulled in Project Pegasus. (Sheppard gave Mitchell advice on how to handle Rodney, and gave Mitchell a lemmon in front of Rodney:
Sheppard: "He's also deadly allergic to citrus. I keep one with me at all times, it's just a comfort to know *Throws lemmon to Mitchell and Rodney sees it* it's there."
Mitchell: "That's good intel thanks."

That would work, if it wasn't for the fact that.

A: The episodes were swapped around in the last minute.

B: I think that type of 'revenge' isn't in the same vein.

Let's face it, if Rodney did this to Weir or Teyla the fans would be all over it as canon proof that Rodney has the hots for one of them, or equally be disgusted for their honour.

If a person is under the influence to do anything to please a person, well...

ladysarah
July 30th, 2006, 10:18 AM
Women are McKay's fantasy - any and all of them. LOL!

I would have loved to see Shep's reaction when he realises Rodney used the drug on him! LOL!!!

McKay is the little black dress of Atlantis, he goes well on everyone. ;)

vaberella
July 30th, 2006, 10:19 AM
Have you noticed how McKay checked out Teyla at the very end? What was that about? I thought Carter is his fantasy!
I think everyone saw that. Look back at Rising pt.2 towards the end, you'll see that both McKay and Carson were checking out Teyla---and were similarly jealous of John for getting to head tap with her.

So I wasn't surprised...it was totally entertaining to see that. I especially liked when she moved back and was totally unimpressed...all I could think was 'Nice try Mc, but she's way too much for you to handle.' Her reaction to McKay, was the same earlier on when Lucius was coming on a little strong when he was on Atlantis. More like a raised brow, eyeroll, and step back...it was hilarious!!!

The whole scene worked out and was totally funny. And anyway, who doesn't have a crush on Teyla?! She can fight, she's intelligent, she's empathic, she's forceful, she's a leader, she knows hand to hand combat, she can speak more than a few PG languages, she has questionable fashion sense but pulls it off, she can fly a hive ship. Oh, and let me not forget, her hair is continously changing styles and color per season.

Shoot, I'm crushing on her. :teyla:


Women are McKay's fantasy - any and all of them. LOL!

I would have loved to see Shep's reaction when he realises Rodney used the drug on him! LOL!!!

Agreed, but he was specifically checking out Teyla at the ending scene---*vicariously living through Teyla*. I think he just misses me!! :D :D :D.....

Hallowed is McVab!!

jamjar
July 30th, 2006, 11:02 AM
So this episode was based on the idea that "ha, ha, ha! Isn't date-rape funny!"

Like the writers just sat down and thought, "Hey, you know what would be really funny! If not only did this guy essentially strip a town of its free-will, getting women who disliked him when in their own minds to have sex with him -to become addicted to him, but! He comes to Atlantis and does the same there! Let's have him pet Elizabeth and have Teyla and every one else curl up at his feet like a dog because he's drugged them! Let's make it clear that his interest in them is sexual, that he's using a drug to strip their choice away from him! No, it's okay, it'll be funny! The fact that he has both means, motive and opportunity to have sex with these people against their will is so hilarious!"


It wasn't. It was skeevey, it was disturbing. It was what should have been a dark episode, but done as if it was something light. We don't know if he did get around to having sex with anyone on Atlantis, and we don't know that he didn't, but we do know that he damn well date-raped a whole town of women. It's made very clear that that is what he's doing, explicitly so in the conversation with John, and that conversation is one of the few bits in this episode that worked. And then the rest of the episode, it's treated as funny, as light.

This is the sort of episode that's enough to make me stop watching the whole series, and I don't want that. I want to like the series. I like liking the series. But episodes like this are disturbing, and not in the right way. It was horrible and awful and outright disgusting.

Fatewarns
July 30th, 2006, 11:07 AM
There's massive difference between using a drug to get sex from a person who wouldn't otherwise have sex with you, to dressing nicely and chatting up that person/lying to the person, etc. It's against the law to do the former.

ok it's against the law to put something on himself to appear more attractive. I guess we should lock up all those tag-body spray users

the fifth man
July 30th, 2006, 11:16 AM
Overall, I enjoyed this episode of SGA. I knew it wasn't supposed to be a serious episode, so I was able to enjoy the comedy of it. It was just a fun hour of Atlantis.

valaCB
July 30th, 2006, 11:24 AM
LOL, this was one of the damn funniest episodes I have ever seen. I nearly got a heart attack from laughing. Excellent! :D
Indeed! Excellent episode :beckett: :sheppard:

Alipeeps
July 30th, 2006, 11:27 AM
Gah, this was not bad, it was a atrocity against humanity.


Personally, I think if you consider a 44 minute long, made-for-entertainment, science fiction television programme to be "an atrocity against humanity" then you either don't watch enough of the news or you have your proirities way out of wack.

By all means post your opinion and give some critical analysis of the episode but sweeping statements like that are really not remotely relevant and actually undermine your argument/point of view.

Alipeeps
July 30th, 2006, 11:35 AM
Essentially Rodney used a 'love potion' knowing that Sheppard would be the only one effected.


It is not a "love potion" - it is a potion that makes everybody like him, men and women.. (A love potion would be a potion that would make everybody fall in love with him and, whilst the potion did make people like and idolise Lucius and want to please him I don't think it fits the definition of love potion - the name love potion infers a romantic/sexual element and I doubt Lucius wanted to sleep with everybody on Atlantis!! Or even in his vilage..)

As for why Rodney used it... I can easily see him a) being curious (being a scientist and all) and b) given that he is not a man who is comfortable socially, who makes friends easily etc, I can see that it would be a tempting idea for him to try it and see what it would be like for people to be nice to him and like him and do as he tells them etc (the last one of course would also appeal to McKay egomania! :lol:)

As for him knowing Sheppard would be the only one affected... the way he looked at Teyla suggests he was hoping it would have an effect on her... who knows how long the serum's protection against the pheromone lasts for?

Fatewarns
July 30th, 2006, 11:36 AM
Carson crying and Mckay at the last scene were two of the best parts:)

PG15
July 30th, 2006, 11:43 AM
I completely agree. The light-hearted, comedic tone just further drives home the point that the producers and writers are willing to trivialize the issues of rape and the victimization of women. If this show had any glimmerings of emotional honesty, those women on the planet and Weir and Teyla would feel horribly violated. It's the big elephant in the room that the boys at Bridge choose to ignore because it just gets in the way of their sexist fun.

Well then, that home must be found...in The Twilight Zone.

Seeing rape is one thing, but thinking that the producers condone this kind of behavior is a whole other issue altogether. That is just wrong. Hell, I don't even think "it's a matter of opinion" comes in here at all. It's just plain wrong.

Well, I hope you'll stop watching, since, afterall, it's written by a bunch of folks that apparently condone rape. :rolleyes:

RoryJ
July 30th, 2006, 11:43 AM
McKay is the little black dress of Atlantis, he goes well on everyone. ;)
ROTFLMAO! :indeed:

Biscuit
July 30th, 2006, 11:49 AM
Heh! Okay, this isn't the debate I expected to find when I peeked at the forum for this particular episode, but okay. I'll roll with it.

Were we all watching the same episode? Because the "Irresistible" on my TV certainly didn't seem to be condoning -- never mind glorifying -- Lucius's behavior. If anything, the entire episode was devoted to laying it out, step by step, just how monstrous his behavior was. The fact that this episode was hysterically funny in places doesn't change the fact that it was also deeply, deeply creepy.

I'm on board with those of you who were appalled by the idea that he drugged women into sleeping with him. He's like the cult leaders who deprive new recruits of sleep and protein until they're so brainwashed that sleeping with the cult leader, selling flowers in airports or drinking the poison kool-aid seems like a really good idea.

That's what makes Lucius the *villain* of this particular episode.

Lucius's wives looked happy, his village looked like Disneyland and everyone was smiling and brimming with glee once he worked his mojo on them. But I thought the episode did a pretty damn good job of showing that if you scratch the surface, you see the horror underneath.

He talked Weir into ordering a suicide mission! He made Dex pin McKay against a wall until he could drug him into submission too! He forced the entire city into a manhunt for Sheppard like the freaking Army of Darkness! Sure, it was fun to watch the actors play against type, but the whole time I was laughing (and I was laughing pretty hard -- "Fly, Luicus, fly!!") my skin was crawling -- and I'm pretty sure that's what the writers intended.

Anyhoo. I got a kick out of Friday night's show. It was a nice change of pace after the stupid enzyme arc of relentless gloom and doom (or so I thought, before I stumbled across the date rape debate of gloom and doom.) There were some great team moments, some clever problem-solving on the parts of Sheppard, McKay and Beckett and did I mention the funny? It was funny, people! Creepy, but funny!

Flowerbud
July 30th, 2006, 12:11 PM
ok it's against the law to put something on himself to appear more attractive. I guess we should lock up all those tag-body spray users


I am not talking about a cologne, but a drug. Wearing nice clothes, making jokes, smelling nice doesn't eliminate another's person's decision-making capacity. But using a drug that affects another person's judgement and hence, their consent. It's against the law to have sex with someone without their consent.

Fatewarns
July 30th, 2006, 12:17 PM
I am not talking about a cologne, but a drug. Wearing nice clothes, making jokes, smelling nice doesn't eliminate another's person's decision-making capacity. But using a drug that affects another person's judgement and hence, their consent. It's against the law to have sex with someone without their consent.

he's not drugging them. he's drugging himself to appear more appealing. which the purpose of colone or make-up or any product design to make oneself better looking. Only this product is more affect.

Auralis
July 30th, 2006, 12:17 PM
Personally, I think if you consider a 44 minute long, made-for-entertainment, science fiction television programme to be "an atrocity against humanity" then you either don't watch enough of the news or you have your proirities way out of wack.

By all means post your opinion and give some critical analysis of the episode but sweeping statements like that are really not remotely relevant and actually undermine your argument/point of view.


You know what, I don't care.
I expressed my feelings about the episode, and if you think my feelings are crap or not worth of been mention.
I don't care.

Gregorius
July 30th, 2006, 12:45 PM
he's not drugging them. he's drugging himself to appear more appealing. which the purpose of colone or make-up or any product design to make oneself better looking. Only this product is more affect.

First, lets grab the definition of rape (According to wikipedia): Rape is the act of forcing penetrative sexual acts, against his or her will through violence, force, threat of injury, or other duress, or where the victim is unable to decline, due to the effects of drugs or alcohol.

The only difference is that those products don't have pheromones in them that creates a chemical unbalance in the brain which in turn disables rational thought and causes feelings of contempt, admiration, etc... This drug basicly works in the same way as a rape drug the only differences being that the user of this drug becomes the rape drug itself, that it is far more effective, and it hardly leaves a trace in the body if you don't know what to look for (Were this drug in existance I highly doubt it would show up in toxicology reports). Now, using the given definition we find that it already qualifies as rape since, due to the effects of this drug, the victim is unable to decline having sex with the user of the drug.

If you take this into account you'll notice that it doesn't have anything in common with the products you named, unless you're telling me that those products also turn a person into a living rape drug and disable rational thought. In fact, if those products were to do these things they'd be banned from the market and be declared illegal since they create the conditions for rape to take place. This is also why sex with a person who's under/suffering from hypnosis/narcose/coma are/is considered rape.

Fatewarns
July 30th, 2006, 12:49 PM
If you take this into account you'll notice that it doesn't have anything in common with the products you named, unless you're telling me that those products also turn a person into a living rape drug and disable rational thought. In fact, if those products were to do these things they'd be banned from the market and be declared illegal since they create the conditions for rape to take place. This is also why sex with a person who's under/suffering from hypnosis/narcose/coma are/is considered rape.

have you seen the tag body spray commericals? It clearly shows what it's purpose is.

Gregorius
July 30th, 2006, 12:57 PM
have you seen the tag body spray commericals? It clearly shows what it's purpose is.

It's purpose is hiding the odor of sweat so you don't stink, which in turn can attract women. That's what is shows, that women like men who don't strink and smell like a lockerroom.

Besides that I was refering to the chemical make-up and the purpose/effects of those products, but I guess I need to put this more clearly in my posts next time so people understand I am refering to this (It's either that or they need to learn how to read).

Gregorius
July 30th, 2006, 12:59 PM
That would work, if it wasn't for the fact that.

A: The episodes were swapped around in the last minute.

B: I think that type of 'revenge' isn't in the same vein.

Or...they'd switched it for a reason, maybe to make this connection more clearer?

gatelover12
July 30th, 2006, 01:07 PM
This is also why sex with a person who's under/suffering from hypnosis/narcose/coma are/is considered rape.
Thank goodnesds for TIIC's shiny reset button eh? *Note: since this didn't happen in real life, and was FICTION I enjoyed the ep, I just felt the need for a quick remark.*

Tok'Ra Hostess
July 30th, 2006, 01:08 PM
This ep was a total crack-up! I loved it.

Loved happy Beckett and distraught Beckett, and, especially, crying Beckett. :P

Loved the references to Batman. Surprised no one mentioned Hathor. Guess they hadn't read that report - it probably got conveniently lost. ;)

I laughed so much when the woman on the planet told how the formerly uninteresting Luscious won her heart with the story of him stepping in something. Too funny!

And MacKay actually using the stuff on Shep. Oh, the fic that is sure to generate.

starfox
July 30th, 2006, 01:09 PM
McKay is the little black dress of Atlantis, he goes well on everyone. ;)


:D

Amen.

Willow'sCat
July 30th, 2006, 01:11 PM
Or...they'd switched it for a reason, maybe to make this connection more clearer?It will be interesting to see how many references if any they make in Sadeta to the gate bridge. This ep was littered with them, making me wonder if the switch was always intended. Maybe it was just the writing order that was off. In other words they had the idea and name for the Dex ep, so that was out first and listed as ep 3, but they always intended to have it as ep 4.

Either way, I can see in Rodney's warped mind why he would see getting Sheppard to clean his room as pay back for the lemon, McKay is deathly allergic to citrus! Sheppard knew; even telling Cam, well as I say in McKay's warped mind.

No it is still wrong. I can laugh at it but then that was what the writers wanted, for me to not think too much about any of this, to not use my brain, to not go into details to just sit back and enjoy the ride.

I wish sometimes I was that shallow it would make watching SGA and posting on GW so much easier. :cool:

lily
July 30th, 2006, 01:21 PM
OMG. So funny! I think it's the best funny/silly episode since "Urgo"/"Window of Opportunity". I laughed so hard. Need to watch it again today.

I haven't read all the comments here yet but I did read some. Some people mentioned "Wormhole X-treme", others "The Tower". I'm one of those who didn't like "Wormhole X-treme". It was nice to see the behind the scenes crew on camera, but I didn't like the episode beyond that. With "the Tower", I admit the first time I saw the epi I was dissapointed. I don't read a lot of spoilers (just the not so especific teasers posted some times at Gateworld), and I watched it thinking it was going to be a serious epi (or at least not a silly one) and so I was dissapointed. But you know what? I've watched "The Tower" four more times since then, and I enjoyed it the 4 extra times. Because then I already knew it was a silly/funny episode, and I sat down and watched it as that, and laughed at the funny moments. I would never say "The Tower" is a great episode. I wouldn't say it's bad either. Just a silly one, not very good, not very bad. Maybe just good :)

When I heard the spoilers (well, just teasers) about "Irresistible", it didn't make me exactly happy. Then I read that Carl Binder had written it, and I felt better, because he's one of my fave writers. So when I sat down and watched this epi, I knew I would be watching an episode that was supposed to be funny/silly, and that it had been penned by a great writter. And, oh, boy. I loved it! I had tears in my eyes from laughing so hard. I still have a silly smile in my face. I hope Carl Binder gets to write this kind on funny epis in future seasons. I don't want all the episodes to be funny. I love SGA's darker side (I absolutely loved "Misbegotten"). But one of these funny epis per season is great.

A well written and well acted episode, which was meant to be and was extremely funny, and even had character development, especially for Shep (totally unexpected in a funny episode).

It gets a 10 out of 10 from me.

All this is just MHO, and no offense intended to those who disagree.

Nolamom
July 30th, 2006, 01:39 PM
First, lets grab the definition of rape (According to wikipedia): Rape is the act of forcing penetrative sexual acts, against his or her will through violence, force, threat of injury, or other duress, or where the victim is unable to decline, due to the effects of drugs or alcohol.
<snippity do dah>
This is also why sex with a person who's under/suffering from hypnosis/narcose/coma are/is considered rape.
Amen brother
Deeply disturbing episode and one that I will not be re-watching. Last week's ethical lapse with the humanized Wraith and now this???

lily
July 30th, 2006, 01:46 PM
I don't know if this analogy has been posted yet, I haven't read through the topic, but I think it's one many of you will agree with... This episode is to Atlantis what Urgo was to SG-1.
Exactly. While I was watching this epi I thought the same. "Irresistible" is to SGA what Urgo and Window of Opportunity is to SG-1.



The people who are saying "lighten up this is just TV." Must all be Males.

I'm a 35 y.o. female and absolutely loved this epi for what it is, an extremely funny epi. Thank you.




That being said, I did not find this episode offensive in that sense. I know full well that it was not meant to seriously imply any moral standard nor encourage such behavior. It was taken lightly because the whole episode was taken lightly. It was not meant to be demeaning, and so I did not take it as such. Personally, I thought the episode was fun and goofy, and a chance to see the team acting oddly and get a good laugh out of it.


Agree 100%.

I can't add anything else regarding this issue. Others have written everything I would probably say. So let's just add that the issue of rape never crossed my mind while watching this episode. It was a funny epi. Never meant to set any moral standard or go into any of those issues.

Tok'Ra Hostess
July 30th, 2006, 02:30 PM
My take is that Lucius is a con-man... I think Sheppard called him a "snake oil salesman". He didn't force himself on these women but he sold them an illusion... that he was more attractive/desirable than what he was. It doesn't make him less of a villain because he still used deception to get what he wanted.
I see him more as a cult figure... someone who has brainwashed his followers into believing that he's a god and that giving yourself over sexually to that man, you are attaining "true" spirituality or goodness.

Yeah, he also kind of put me in mind of air-brushed movie characters with made-up names, silicon bodies and who can deliver great lines, only, uglier. ;)

Seriously, now, how many people right here on GW have banners that proclaim - openly or subtly - that they would love to submit themselves to Ba'al or some other totally evil villian, not to mention those who drool and thunk over the "good guys. Are these fans all perverts? Are we to take any of them seriously? Should they all be locked up or shot or hung? Why aren't the writers allowed to be just as silly as their fans?

Rape: 1. The crime of forcing another person to submit to sex acts, especially sexual intercourse.
2. The act of seizing and carrying off by force; abduction.
3. Abusive or improper treatment; violation: a rape of justice.

I'm a woman who grew up around powertripping, sex-obsessed males and I'm sensitive to the whole rape issue, but in Irrestible I still saw the humor behind the crime - and, yes, the writers definitely acknowledge that Luscious was a criminal. If it wasn't blatantly obvious throughout the ep, then the scene between Lucious and jailed Shep highlighted that fact. You could consider this ep a dark comedy.

I'm amazed that Urgo is being let off the hook, here, because if you want to get right down to it, Urgo raped SG-1. Following the second and third definitions for rape, he abducted SG-1, holding them prisoner so that they could not resume their normal lives. He also violated them, making them say/do things they would not have done willingly.

RoryJ
July 30th, 2006, 02:30 PM
I don't think many people are saying that it wasn't rape. I agree that it was. But I also agree with the team for turning Lucius over to the world where he perpetrated the worst of his crimes. And so the issue is over for me. No one condoned his actions, but the episode was funny because we got to see our team making a$$es out of themselves. It wasn't funny because of Lucius' behavior itself.

By the way, I'm a 20 something woman who has been to college and seen some "manipulative behavior" in her time. I don't condone rape, but I don't think this episode or TPTB do either. :cool:

Tok'Ra Hostess
July 30th, 2006, 02:49 PM
Were we all watching the same episode? Because the "Irresistible" on my TV certainly didn't seem to be condoning -- never mind glorifying -- Lucius's behavior. If anything, the entire episode was devoted to laying it out, step by step, just how monstrous his behavior was. The fact that this episode was hysterically funny in places doesn't change the fact that it was also deeply, deeply creepy.

<snip>

It was funny, people! Creepy, but funny!

ITA.

In other words, Irresistible was a brilliant piece of writing.

coldpower27
July 30th, 2006, 02:51 PM
Ooh, pretty good episode, I was completely nausiated by how everyone was falling head over heels over Lucius, but it was a nice change of pace consideirng all the stuff that has been going on for the past while.

Regarding the rape issue it never crossed my mind. This was supposed to be a funny and amusing episode, and overall it was.

Lucius, to me while being the villan, didn't seem that way to me, it didn't see he was smart enough to do any real damage to the Atlantis team. So I didn't really fear so bad for Wier, Sheppard, Teyla etc etc.

I can only imagine the material for McKay and Sheppard shippers now so good and wonderful. I loved how McKay tried out the herb on Sheppard, nice to see the banter between those two.:sheppardanime23::mckayanime03: :love:

PG15
July 30th, 2006, 03:09 PM
ITA.

In other words, Irresistible was a brilliant piece writing.

Indeed.

Irresistable was a light-hearted episode that tackled very serious rape issues. This is just the kind of episode BSG needs right about now.

;)

vaberella
July 30th, 2006, 03:20 PM
Ooh, pretty good episode, I was completely nausiated by how everyone was falling head over heels over Lucius, but it was a nice change of pace consideirng all the stuff that has been going on for the past while.

Regarding the rape issue it never crossed my mind. This was supposed to be a funny and amusing episode, and overall it was.

Lucius, to me while being the villan, didn't seem that way to me, it didn't see he was smart enough to do any real damage to the Atlantis team. So I didn't really fear so bad for Wier, Sheppard, Teyla etc etc.

I can only imagine the material for McKay and Sheppard shippers now so good and wonderful. I loved how McKay tried out the herb on Sheppard, nice to see the banter between those two.:sheppardanime23::mckayanime03: :love:

Really he tried it on Shep? I thought he tried it on Teyla. Meh..whatever. I found it to be more Shepett (Beckett/Shep) shippery than anything else. Final scene where he was teasing....it was Beckett who answered. And let's not forget who he kidnapped to fix things, Beckett. I think it's a Beckett/Shep story here. I'm not seeing McShep here...

VB:beckett: :sheppard:

dec55
July 30th, 2006, 03:35 PM
This eppy was fluff......and for the folks that are worried about the rape issue...
Lucius was willing to marry them...even though polygomy is still outlawed here
in the US..... My guess this whole eppy took place in a matter of a day or so.
And nothing happend sexual between anybody.... There was no time for marriage and a honeymoon. Lucius seem spending most of his time trying to convert folks with his drug...which gave Sheppard time to defeat Lucius quickly before he could take advantage of Teyla and Weir.

coldpower27
July 30th, 2006, 03:37 PM
Really he tried it on Shep? I thought he tried it on Teyla. Meh..whatever. I found it to be more Shepett (Beckett/Shep) shippery than anything else. Final scene where he was teasing....it was Beckett who answered. And let's not forget who he kidnapped to fix things, Beckett. I think it's a Beckett/Shep story here. I'm not seeing McShep here...

VB:beckett: :sheppard:

Woah there partner. ;) I am just saying I like the McKay/Sheppard material in this episode.It doesn't preclude having material from other ships as well :D

I guess the Beckett/Sheppard material to me wasn't as influential to my detection senses, as I am most interested in the McKay and Sheppard ship. :P

Yeah, apparently there was some material for McKay and Teyla at the end as well, with that look he had toward her, which I didn't notice.

I like the banter Mckay and Sheppard had as well regarding Catwoman and Batman back in the lab where they were trying to figure out what the drug did.

And as you pointed out there is plenty of Beckett and Sheppard material in this episode as well. Anyway :sheppardanime23::mckayanime03: FTW!!

xfkirsten
July 30th, 2006, 03:46 PM
I don't think many people are saying that it wasn't rape. I agree that it was. But I also agree with the team for turning Lucius over to the world where he perpetrated the worst of his crimes. And so the issue is over for me. No one condoned his actions, but the episode was funny because we got to see our team making a$$es out of themselves. It wasn't funny because of Lucius' behavior itself.

By the way, I'm a 20 something woman who has been to college and seen some "manipulative behavior" in her time. I don't condone rape, but I don't think this episode or TPTB do either. :cool:

You hit the nail on the head here about it. Exactly how I feel! :) And I'm also a 20-something female college grad, who's seen the same behavior more than once.

ladysarah
July 30th, 2006, 04:27 PM
ok it's against the law to put something on himself to appear more attractive. I guess we should lock up all those tag-body spray users

It's against the law to drug a person.

Funnily enough.

ladysarah
July 30th, 2006, 04:32 PM
It is not a "love potion" - it is a potion that makes everybody like him, men and women.. (A love potion would be a potion that would make everybody fall in love with him and, whilst the potion did make people like and idolise Lucius and want to please him I don't think it fits the definition of love potion - the name love potion infers a romantic/sexual element and I doubt Lucius wanted to sleep with everybody on Atlantis!! Or even in his vilage..)

Everyone was willing to do anything to please Lucius, ANYTHING. Look ta the way both Rodney and Carson were fighting over how to impress Lucius more.

A love potion doesn't make people fall in love, because it's a false love, it makes people pine for another person, like Carson crying 'He needs me'.

If Lucius wanted to have sex with the guys, if he was so inclined, then Carson, Radek would have fallen over themselves to do so just like those girls in the village, and just like Teyla wanted to. And wouldn't the fallout to that be interesting (in a creepy, icky, yeah that's rape way).

It's a drug, it makes people do things they never would have done.

Of course the writers didn't go that route, because the implications of stripping a person of their choice of sexual identity appears to be more disturbing to most people then a creepy guy taking consent away from women and raping them.