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ladysarah
July 30th, 2006, 04:36 PM
he's not drugging them. he's drugging himself to appear more appealing. which the purpose of colone or make-up or any product design to make oneself better looking. Only this product is more affect.

It's drugging them, people are coming under the influence of a drug with his pheramones, a drug that is addictive, a drug that causes withdrawal pains, much in the same way people suffer from withdrawal from heroin.

I'm betting if someone comes up with a drug like this, it will be illegal quick smart.

ladysarah
July 30th, 2006, 04:39 PM
Really he tried it on Shep? I thought he tried it on Teyla. Meh..whatever.

Everyone was vaccinated against it except Sheppard, Sheppard wasn't vaccinated because he didn't come under the influence of Lucius because he had a cold.

Rodney knew this and that's why he asked Sheppard to clean his room.

Admiral Mappalazarou
July 30th, 2006, 04:40 PM
Oh COME ON!!!!

Sci Fi can't be serious 24/7 or else how borin would that be?

'Irresistable' rocked, and y'all know it.

The Engineer
July 30th, 2006, 05:35 PM
In what way?
He annoys me as much as Martin Lloyd. They are both morons.

ILoveMe
July 30th, 2006, 05:42 PM
I loved this episode! Yes, the dude was annoying... but that was the point! There were so many little moments in this ep that was hilarous as well, like when Rodney tells Sheppard that he had a nice chat with Lucius while Ronan held him against the wall! McKay seemed so happy about it! Dude, I would pay good money to see that scene! Gimme! Gimme! Gimme! Haha, McKay using the extract on Sheppard at the end of the ep was classic as well! Especially since Sheppard was just clowning on everyone else for falling under that Lucius dude's spell!

SG-1 was pretty good this week too with the Lemon! How many think Sheppard really always carries a lemon around, just in case? Haha! Mitchell actually pulled out the lemon and threatened Rodney with it!!!

The Ori
July 30th, 2006, 05:48 PM
Was OK!!

OutThere
July 30th, 2006, 07:54 PM
Heh! Okay, this isn't the debate I expected to find when I peeked at the forum for this particular episode, but okay. I'll roll with it.

Were we all watching the same episode? Because the "Irresistible" on my TV certainly didn't seem to be condoning -- never mind glorifying -- Lucius's behavior. If anything, the entire episode was devoted to laying it out, step by step, just how monstrous his behavior was. The fact that this episode was hysterically funny in places doesn't change the fact that it was also deeply, deeply creepy.

I'm on board with those of you who were appalled by the idea that he drugged women into sleeping with him. He's like the cult leaders who deprive new recruits of sleep and protein until they're so brainwashed that sleeping with the cult leader, selling flowers in airports or drinking the poison kool-aid seems like a really good idea.

That's what makes Lucius the *villain* of this particular episode.

Lucius's wives looked happy, his village looked like Disneyland and everyone was smiling and brimming with glee once he worked his mojo on them. But I thought the episode did a pretty damn good job of showing that if you scratch the surface, you see the horror underneath.

He talked Weir into ordering a suicide mission! He made Dex pin McKay against a wall until he could drug him into submission too! He forced the entire city into a manhunt for Sheppard like the freaking Army of Darkness! Sure, it was fun to watch the actors play against type, but the whole time I was laughing (and I was laughing pretty hard -- "Fly, Luicus, fly!!") my skin was crawling -- and I'm pretty sure that's what the writers intended.

Anyhoo. I got a kick out of Friday night's show. It was a nice change of pace after the stupid enzyme arc of relentless gloom and doom (or so I thought, before I stumbled across the date rape debate of gloom and doom.) There were some great team moments, some clever problem-solving on the parts of Sheppard, McKay and Beckett and did I mention the funny? It was funny, people! Creepy, but funny!

Good post. I was, and am, of two minds after watching this episode. There were so many great lines, so much of it had me laughing, but Lucius was no Lovable Rogue or Charming Scalawag, and three-quarters into the episode I was hoping Sheppard would just pull out a gun and shoot the guy. I thought Sheppard's visit back to the village and his discussion with Lucius when in the cell pretty well showed that the writers weren't glorifying Lucius's actions at all, but revealing just how disgusting and deliberately cruel he was. What was missing at the end was us learning whether or not he got a fitting comeuppance. The team sends him back to his homeworld, but we don't learn his fate, beyond a lighthearted jest about his wives divorcing him. Unfortunately I've heard that Lucius is back in "Irresponsible" :mad: I want him to pay for his crimes, not become a recurring villain. He's repulsive and charmless. If I get lucky, someone will just shoot him this time around. This episode was amusing, but Lucius wasn't.

I'm another one of those people who think McKay using the drug on Sheppard was payback for that lemon bit. C'mon, sending Sheppard to clean his room? It sounds just like an adolescent getting even with his brother. Still, you'd think he'd be a bit more leary of doing something like that after The Lost Boys, The Hive, and now this episode.

valaCB
July 30th, 2006, 09:08 PM
Carson crying and Mckay at the last scene were two of the best parts:)
He was crying so well..LOL!!!

nightowl300
July 30th, 2006, 09:37 PM
Irresistible was a good episode. Not the best I've seen, but not the worse either.

vaberella
July 30th, 2006, 10:52 PM
Everyone was vaccinated against it except Sheppard, Sheppard wasn't vaccinated because he didn't come under the influence of Lucius because he had a cold.

Rodney knew this and that's why he asked Sheppard to clean his room.

Yeah, your like the 8th person to tell me that. I saw it and know it, but for some bloody reason...I can't remember that detail. Irresistable was still a great ep.

ladysarah
July 30th, 2006, 10:54 PM
Yeah, your like the 8th person to tell me that. I saw it and know it, but for some bloody reason...I can't remember that detail. Irresistable was still a great ep.

I didn't mind it. I think I would have had a bigger problem if they showed Lucius to be less sinister then he came across as.

Spacegirlnz
July 30th, 2006, 11:03 PM
Omg. I *just* saw this ep. I had read no spoilers, or anything, but as soon as I saw Richard Kind I knew what was coming. Such a strange episode. But the acting of being infactuated with Lucius was quite good.

GateLadyM
July 31st, 2006, 07:49 AM
I wasn't expecting much, but there was some good humor and it was fun to see the cast in a different light but I didn't like Lucius at all. He used people to get his own way and I didn't see any redeaming qualities, nor did I see him feel any remorse for what he had done.

Fine for a stand alone episode, unfortunately, we will see this icky fellow later in the season. I might skip that one.

Visno
July 31st, 2006, 08:36 AM
At first I thought this episode might be funny because of Richard Kind. Then as the show progress it got steadly boring. My recommendation watch the show if you're a super must see all Stargate Atlantis fan. If you can aford to miss some Stargate Atlantis, then skip this your life may very well depend on doing so.

maxbo
July 31st, 2006, 11:03 AM
What a bizarre episode. I found myself alternating between laughing out loud and being totally squicked out. Lucius was the creepiest villain I’ve seen on SGA so far because he was a smiling sociopath housed in a soft, non-threatening, easy to beat the crap out of body. The TPTB did a good job of highlighting just how dangerous this man is because interspersed throughout the episode were constant reminders. Starting with his bizarre little Stepford-like community where his people were willing to try to stop SGA-1 from leaving simply because Lucius just happened to mention that he didn’t want them to go.

The good news is that there were so many good SGA character moments that I can’t put this down as an episode that I won’t watch again. Just a few of the things I loved:

Sheppard – this was the best all round Sheppard episode that I’ve seen in a long time. Throughout the episode, Sheppard was smart, funny and strong.

Beckett – his scenes had me howling with laughter, especially the scenes in the puddlejumper (“Lucius needs me”). And judging by the last scene, you can tell that Sheppard is going to hold that over his head for a long, long time.

Teyla and Elizabeth – It was good to see them loosen up and it’s about time we saw some indication that Sheppard’s not the only pretty one in the group :D. This was the first episode to show any indication that Teyla and Elizabeth are sexual beings, and considering the amount of attention focused on the guys (except for Ford and Ronon) in S1/S2, it's strange that it took so long.

McKay – He struck just the right degree of snark and was hilarious both before and after being under the influence. Just thinking about his "Fly Lucius Fly" is enough to set me off again.

Ronon - It was refreshing to see him get a bit of female attention for a change and he was strangely adorable holding his bag of herbs to his chest.

Zelenka - Just cute, cute, cute and I'm waiting for the Czech translations.

Yep, a strange episode. So much good stuff in such a creepy setting.

Enemyone
July 31st, 2006, 11:31 AM
I didnt get a chance to watch the episode till last night but that had to be the worst episode i have seen in all of SG. That was utter crap

starfox
July 31st, 2006, 11:54 AM
*pokes head back into thread*

I had a thought while skimming through this. Lots of people have commented on how much they dislike Lucius and how creepy he is and how he gives them the shivers, etc. But...aren't we supposed to hate him? I mean, he's a despicable human being. I think that's kind of what makes him such a good villain; there's no master plan, he's not an evil overlord. He's just that creepy, obnoxious guy from the back of your class who you would never talk to for more than five minutes if you could help it, and he found a way to exploit everyone and become the most popular guy in school. The fact that Lucius was so utterly irredeemable is what made him a good villain, IMO. It made it easier to identify with Sheppard, all alone in the nuthouse.

GhostPoet
July 31st, 2006, 12:13 PM
You know...when I first heard about this episode..I was kind of dreading it.
I watched it.


I loved it. :) I thought it was so hilarious!! But also...when Shepard was the only guy NOT effected, it got a little suspensful too. What a scary thought, to be the only sane person in the city! YIKES!

I REALLY enjoyed it...i'm surprised. So far i've been enjoying every episode. The last one, not so much. I didn't think it was bad...just had more potential. Still, I REALLY enjoy this season. :)

Zamboni
July 31st, 2006, 01:53 PM
Ehh I skipped through most of it. I had hoped it would be at least reasonable with Richard Kind joining the cast.

The guy goes off to Wraith outposts finding weed and the planet never gets culled? Forget it. Compared to the SG1 episode this week, SGA is complete and utter crap.

maxbo
July 31st, 2006, 02:03 PM
When the Wraith set up an outpost on his weed planet he couldn't go back there that's why he needed SGA-1.

prion
July 31st, 2006, 04:28 PM
Yeah someone else made that comparison... I guess Lucius is rather Harry Mudd-like.. :D

I know I did, although in the 'live discussion' thread. As soon as Lucius came on screen, it was very apparent who he was modeled after.

prion
July 31st, 2006, 04:30 PM
However, the space gate bridge thing. Doesn't anybody think that if earth can use it hop to the PEgasus Galaxy (once they get it done) and vice versa, that the wraith or ori might not take advantage of it too?

Gregorius
July 31st, 2006, 04:50 PM
However, the space gate bridge thing. Doesn't anybody think that if earth can use it hop to the PEgasus Galaxy (once they get it done) and vice versa, that the wraith or ori might not take advantage of it too?

They'll install usage Irises probably.

Mattathias2.0
July 31st, 2006, 05:22 PM
This episode was pretty much as good as Duet. It was funny, yet not all that interesting.

Beckett crying was hilarious!

Overall, I won't watch it again in the near future.

Mattathias

Linzi
August 1st, 2006, 04:46 AM
I really liked this episode, and after initial spoilers were sneaked out, I really thought I'd hate it. Well, what a surprise I had!
I didn't take it seriously. It was a fun, strange episode.
The rape/not rape issue. Hmmm. In RL it wouldn't be funny, and I don't think it is here if you look at it in a real life situation. However, I don't see it as rape in the conventional sense. Rape is not about sex, it's about power and control. However, Lucius using a drug to get sex for his own gratification is not a nice or tolerable thought.
But, the writers didn't intend for this to be taken so seriously, and Lucius wasn't meant to be a sympathetic character, in my eyes. He was a total villain, and as slimey as hell. Did I like him? Hell no. Was I mean to? No, I don't think so. This aspect of the episode certainly didn't spoil it for me. I liken it to Tom and Jerry cartoons. They are viewed by many as funny, because it's fiction and you're suspending belief. If you actually think about two animals maiming each other it's not funny. Same here. Suspend belief, go with the flow, you can have a really good 40 odd minutes of entertainment, which puts strain on the old bladder control, ;)
Some have suggested leaving him to his own people without locking him away or handing some sort of punitive treatment was wrong of Sheppard. Well, I say, he's not their problem. It's not for the expedition to hand out punishments it's up to the indigenous population of Lucius' world to do that. Something tells me Lucius will pay dearly for his crimes, and that his punishment will be just.
Okay, on to the good stuff, which was plentiful.
As a Sheppard fan, I just loved him here. I always like Joe's performances, but he was on top form here, IMO. I loved his facial expressions, his line deliveries, and how he kept a straight face in his scenes with Paul McGillion is beyond me!
This was a great episode for Sheppard. We see him taking control, standing up to Weir, being a military commander and using his brain again! So, I was pleased with this episode for those things alone.
I enjoyed seeing the other characters being OOC. Weir's smitten sexy leader was great to see, Ronon all fanboyish was great. Rodney's fawning was fantastic. Teyla being worried she'd not make it as Lucius' 7th wife was funny!
Beckett crying was hysterical, though I think he went as far as he should have with the blubbering.
Over all I really enjoyed this little romp. Lucius is not a character I liked, I found him pretty repulsive, but thought Richard Kind did a great job.
All in all, I laughed myself senseless in some bits, and just was so pleased to see Sheppard at the centre of a well written episode, that showed his fantastic qualities as a leader and soldier.

silverdamascus
August 1st, 2006, 06:13 AM
What the hell were they thinking!

"I know! Let's have an episode that deals with forced drug taking, withdrawl and rape but lets make it funny!"

That was sick. I know its meant to be light and funny but seriously mate look at the subtext here. My respect for them has just seriously plummeted.

That aside the episode only had one or two decent lines, it was nice to see a different side of Beckett but what the hell happened to his accent? Did McGillion just forget how to pull one off? Some of that was just cringeworthy.

verbalkint
August 1st, 2006, 06:50 AM
I disagree with all those who say Lucias raped someone. He gave HIMSELF a potion that attracted those around him to him. Heck, we spend billions of dollars a year buying cologne, perfume hoping for the same type of effect. I also think that Sheppard immunized the village and once that happened the women realized how they initially didn't like Lucias at all and remembered at how much they catered to him and his every wish while exposed to the potient. Theres no fury like a woman scorned? Try a village full of women scorned and add men who basically put themselves in servitude for that. I'm sure Lucias suffered far greater punishment by that village than simply just being "jailed" in atlantis.

Having said that, I realize the nature of that episode was to provide comic relief and give the actors & actresses a chance to flex their comedic chops but for all the effort Sheppard and McKay were doing trying to understand the potient they could have just tricked Beckett into analyzing the substance saying its something they "found" off world or even they confiscated from personnel suspected of acting strange lately. Although I didn't care much at all for the episode I am glad alot of viewers saw the show for what it was, a funny, light episode. I think having come off SG1's The Pegasys Project left me waiting to see another spectacular episode along those lines.

silverdamascus
August 1st, 2006, 07:44 AM
I disagree with all those who say Lucias raped someone. He gave HIMSELF a potion that attracted those around him to him. Heck, we spend billions of dollars a year buying cologne, perfume hoping for the same type of effect

Let's try an example from the episode:

The woman on the planet turned him down twice. He took the drug, made her compliant and had sex with her. Something it was clearly established she wouldn't have done otherwise. He introduced a substance to chemically alter the processes in her mind so that she would not reject him when he tried to f**k her again.

That is rape.

There is no difference between that and drugging her drink to rape her. He may have taken it himself but it was those around him it affected. The cologne analogy is a very poor and misleading one. Cologne makes you smell nice, its a hygience product, in no way does it have the same effects. No one puts on Cologne for the result he did, the people who want that result use date rape drugs.

Alipeeps
August 1st, 2006, 10:02 AM
What the hell were they thinking!

At a guess, probably not:


"I know! Let's have an episode that deals with forced drug taking, withdrawl and rape but lets make it funny!"

They probably thought - "Let's do an episode about a totally obnoxious guy who everybody would normally hate but he's got this drug that makes people like him!"



That was sick. I know its meant to be light and funny but seriously mate look at the subtext here. My respect for them has just seriously plummeted.


Key word here - subtext. Subtext is open to interpretation and not everyone - and I'm guessing not the writers - interpret it the way you do.

MB.Eddie
August 1st, 2006, 10:04 AM
Decent ep. Some very funny bits, but other bits were over the top.

Reminds me a lot of the Hathor ep early in SG1...

silverdamascus
August 1st, 2006, 11:02 AM
They probably thought - "Let's do an episode about a totally obnoxious guy who everybody would normally hate but he's got this drug that makes people like him!"

Key word here - subtext. Subtext is open to interpretation and not everyone - and I'm guessing not the writers - interpret it the way you do.

I tend to get carried away with sarcasm, sorry. I was referring to the fact that while it may have seemed a funny idea, and while it might have been if they'd pulled it off right, they clearly weren't thinking too clearly when they laid out the episode details.

You're right, subtext is open to interpretation. Perhaps I was wrong in calling it subtext. After all, the man using a drug to chemically alter the mind so that people would sleep with him or otherwise do what he wanted isn't so much subtext. It was kinda the plot.

I can see how people could accept that it was an oversight perhaps, and wish to enjoy it as a bit of a fun episode, I did at first but after thinking about it I can't now.

May I ask you seriously:

Can you honestly call a situation where a man uses a chemical substance to alter someones state of mind so they would have sex with him, when they otherwise wouldn't as not being rape?

The Turtle Guy
August 1st, 2006, 12:39 PM
Hilarious. ^^ I loved this ep. Best Line is McCay's "Fly, Lucius, fly!" So silly, yet so fun.

10/10

Sasusc
August 1st, 2006, 01:02 PM
Hilarious. ^^ I loved this ep. Best Line is McCay's "Fly, Lucius, fly!" So silly, yet so fun.

10/10

LOL! I love that line! As favorite: Sheppard's "I thought I told you stay away from the crazies" or something like that. And Lucius's: But I want it (refering to the puddle jumper)

StarGi
August 1st, 2006, 01:20 PM
And Lucius wanted the blue jello :cool:. What's with this jello food, anyway?

Trialia
August 1st, 2006, 02:09 PM
I tend to get carried away with sarcasm, sorry. I was referring to the fact that while it may have seemed a funny idea, and while it might have been if they'd pulled it off right, they clearly weren't thinking too clearly when they laid out the episode details.

You're right, subtext is open to interpretation. Perhaps I was wrong in calling it subtext. After all, the man using a drug to chemically alter the mind so that people would sleep with him or otherwise do what he wanted isn't so much subtext. It was kinda the plot.

I can see how people could accept that it was an oversight perhaps, and wish to enjoy it as a bit of a fun episode, I did at first but after thinking about it I can't now.

May I ask you seriously:

Can you honestly call a situation where a man uses a chemical substance to alter someones state of mind so they would have sex with him, when they otherwise wouldn't as not being rape?
Hell no.

This is one of the things about this episode, and there were many, that upset me greatly. TPTB obviously didn't think fully about the ways in which all that they'd written for "Irresistible" could be interpreted, and to me it came out very, very badly.

I'll come right out straight here and say, this episode, and the character of Lucius, gave me serious flashbacks to something I can't remember without getting ill. Watching it through to the end, which I only managed by dint of a lot of effort (I was fighting nausea most of the way through), wound up in a lot of vomiting and a bad migraine for me. I will never watch "Irresistible" again. Not now, not ever.

I didn't think there was an episode of this show I could hate more than I hated "Sanctuary" or "The Tower". But this episode, I physically cannot watch through a second time.

Shep'sSocks
August 1st, 2006, 04:48 PM
*pokes head back into thread*

I had a thought while skimming through this. Lots of people have commented on how much they dislike Lucius and how creepy he is and how he gives them the shivers, etc. But...aren't we supposed to hate him? I mean, he's a despicable human being. I think that's kind of what makes him such a good villain; there's no master plan, he's not an evil overlord. He's just that creepy, obnoxious guy from the back of your class who you would never talk to for more than five minutes if you could help it, and he found a way to exploit everyone and become the most popular guy in school. The fact that Lucius was so utterly irredeemable is what made him a good villain, IMO. It made it easier to identify with Sheppard, all alone in the nuthouse.

Rather like the three guys from Buffy - Andrew and the others. Nerds that no one liked but who wanted to be liked. Recall Lucius' line about how when he first started using the herb, they disliked him less. For the person who wants desperately to be part of the in-crowd and who wants to be powerful, something like the herb is precisely what they want. Lucius was well aware that without the herb, he'd just be the baker that no one liked. That's what makes him squicky and ultimately irredeemable.

shepweir4eva
August 1st, 2006, 07:24 PM
ok everyone, this really sux but my tv didnt tape the last stargate atlantis episode and the last stargate sg-1 episode, so i didnt get to see them and i am really really upset!!! i would be soooo happy if someone could possibly send them to me. if u say u will on this thread then i will give u my screen name so we can discuss it. i am even willing to pay u for it (although it would be nice if i didnt have to). i would really like to get them before friday because thats when the next new episodes come on. the episodes that i didnt see were irresistible and the stargate sg-1 episode that they played on the same night as that stargate atlantis episode. please, someone. i really really want to see them. so, please help another fan out here. i am absolutely begging you!!!

KairezLightkeeper
August 2nd, 2006, 05:08 PM
I would like to sincerely apologize beforehand for the rant. Due to looking through this thread, it's been bubbling just beneath the surface for about a day. Still, it might inspire some thoughts in some people here and there (but, at most, it'll probably just earn me a page or two of rudeness, insults, and other negative things).

Lucius, villain? Not really. While he did kind of screw things up for the Atlantis expedition, this doesn't make him a villain per se; it makes him the antagonist. I would liken him to Harry Mudd from the original Star Trek series, a con man who's just trying to “get rich quick,” in a manner of speaking, but not intently harmful or villainous towards our heroes like the Wraith, the Goa'uld, the Ori, et cetera.

For a villainous role, look no further than putting me in Lucius's place... Those villagers should consider themselves lucky to be alive after being under the influence of the one man in town that they all couldn't stand to be around...

It wouldn't be a terribly unlikely bet to say that Lucius was not well-liked by any of the villagers. His appearance was on the border between average and below-average, and his personality was more eccentric than the average eccentric individual's personality, causing the people to avoid him, probably talk behind his back insultingly, and maybe even be directly offensive to his face, knowing that he couldn't do much about it. He probably had no friends outside of his first wife, and even she didn't feel all that good about him (I bet he was the only eligible bachelor in town when they married). It didn't sound like he was overwhelmingly successful as a baker, and he was probably not appreciated for his work...

Unlike Lucius, I'd be rather pissed, that I would.

If I'd stumbled upon this herb that suddenly seemed to make people like me, and eventually love me... Well, I'd have a bit of fun first, of course (I would not, however, take multiple husbands). After all, control like this doesn't come along every day. Skipping the details, I'd eventually get the whole town singing my tune (“Welcome To My Life,” among other songs). Then, once the Wraith make that lovely little outpost on the herb's world (or if I knew the address of a Spacegate or a different Wraith world), I'd get the whole town to mosey down to the Stargate, dial that planet, and say, “Everyone, this way!” They'd all go like lambs to the slaughter through that puddle, and I'd keep a hand in there to make sure that they can't dial out once they realized just how royally screwed they were (unnecessary if it's a Spacegate)...

Why kill 'em all when they like me so much? Simple: deep down, underneath all that pheromone-induced goodness and smiling and affection, they'd still be the people who hated me, looked down on me, and judged me without knowledge or reason... Like Ronon would say, I can't change what they are (or what I am).

Call Lucius a villain? Given his circumstances, he could very well have been... Rape? Compare that to the potential mass homicide he could've done or —dare I say? — should've done.

There, I've said my piece. Have fun.

(And if that had happened, it would actually have worked out well for Atlantis. “Hey, an uninhabited planet! Let's harvest their Stargate!” No questions asked.)

MmmCesium
August 2nd, 2006, 07:19 PM
Given the tone of this episode, I often replay the scene mentally where Weir says, "John Sheppard, are you questioning my authority?" with South Park's Cartman walking on with a cheesy Weir mask and saying "John Sheppard, ARE YOU QUESTIONING MY AUTHORITAH? RESPECT MY AUTHORITAH!"

eyecandylovr
August 2nd, 2006, 08:00 PM
I loved this episode. I had a seriously goofy grin plastered on my face throughout the whole episode. There were so many funny interchanges and crazy character moments. Did I mention how much I loved this ep?

I imagine that it must be hard for writers to come up with an episode that deals with any type of storyline that would not be offensive to someone, even though that was not the purpose of the story.

IMHO :)

I agree. I loved it too. And speaking as a victim of rape when I was younger, I didn't think about rape for a single second, until I saw people around here talking about it. To me rape is not something you enjoy while it's happening, as clearly the women did. I know that's going to make lots of people unhappy, but that's my opinion.

I must say I actually kind of object to having my experience lumped in with this. I don't think violent sexual assault on the order that we're seeing in the world today compares to this stuff by any stretch of the imagination. And I think it does a disservice to the women around the world who are being brutalized, tortured and killed to call Lucius' crimes by the same name. But that's me.

I thought it was hilarious - it's fantasy, after all.;)

Flowerbud
August 2nd, 2006, 08:48 PM
I agree. I loved it too. And speaking as a victim of rape when I was younger, I didn't think about rape for a single second, until I saw people around here talking about it. To me rape is not something you enjoy while it's happening, as clearly the women did. I know that's going to make lots of people unhappy, but that's my opinion.

I must say I actually kind of object to having my experience lumped in with this. I don't think violent sexual assault on the order that we're seeing in the world today compares to this stuff by any stretch of the imagination. And I think it does a disservice to the women around the world who are being brutalized, tortured and killed to call Lucius' crimes by the same name. But that's me.

I thought it was hilarious - it's fantasy, after all.;)


What an incredibly callous thing to write.
You do a real disservice to women who have been date-raped after they have been drugged. I can't believe that you try to compare different types of rape (using physical force vs. using drugs to eliminate consent) and essentially, tell women who have been raped because of drugs to stop whining about it because your experience of rape was worse. Do you think those women on the planet didn't feel degraded and violated after the drug wore off? I suspect if you were ever a victim of rohypnol date-rape or have this happen to a friend, you wouldn't be so cavalier about this subject.

ladysarah
August 2nd, 2006, 09:58 PM
I suspect if you were ever a victim of rohypnol date-rape or have this happen to a friend, you wouldn't be so cavalier about this subject.

I think rape is horrific in all it's forms. But rape with drug coercion is particularly nasty, because not only did the rapist take away the victim's control over their body, but they took control away from their mind, they essentially were raped body and mind.

And it's harder, in a society which still sees the woman is partly responsible, for a rape victim to heal, to tell herself it isn't her fault, because a part of her will wonder (because of the nature of the violation)

It's horrible.

Willow'sCat
August 3rd, 2006, 02:48 AM
I must say I actually kind of object to having my experience lumped in with this. I don't think violent sexual assault on the order that we're seeing in the world today compares to this stuff by any stretch of the imagination.I am sorry to hear of your experience, and I don't mean to belittle it in anyway. I will say however reading your post I do get the impression you are saying your rape being a violent one is/was worse then if someone was drugged. I don't want to put words in your mouth so I hope I haven't.

My sister was raped 12 years ago and even though she didn't have bruises, it was violent, ALL rapes are violent, the scars can be just as brutal and longer lasting on the inside as the outside. I am a little sick *actually physically sick* of people thinking they can redefine something just because it does not fit their experience. This impression of one being worse then the other does a great disservice to all rape survivors.

It is like saying a virgin being raped is worse then the rape of married women...sorry I actually thought we had gotten past that. :rolleyes:

silverdamascus
August 3rd, 2006, 04:51 AM
me rape is not something you enjoy while it's happening, as clearly the women did. I know that's going to make lots of people unhappy, but that's my opinion.

The women were drugged. They were not in a clear state of mind, they wouldn't have done it otherwise. He drugged them so they'd f**k him. That is rape.


I must say I actually kind of object to having my experience lumped in with this. I don't think violent sexual assault on the order that we're seeing in the world today compares to this stuff by any stretch of the imagination. And I think it does a disservice to the women around the world who are being brutalized, tortured and killed to call Lucius' crimes by the same name. But that's me.

I hope you don't find my speaking of your experience as I am about to as offensive as I found parts of what you said:

No one is lumping your experience in with this, no one has made a comment about it. I can only speak for myself but what I was saying is this is clearly a case of rape and I do not think a subject like this should be made light of.

I think the only disservice being done here is by you. Many women have been doped with rohypnol and raped, their experience is no less a case of rape than someone who was beaten and violated. They are both repulsive crimes, I would not lessen the trauma of either by trying to compare them and say one is more or less acceptable.


I thought it was hilarious - it's fantasy, after all.;)

I didn't find something based on date rape hilarious.

"It's fantasty." is not excuse. These events happen in real life, it is the morals and the appropriateness of this episode that are in question.

Whether bits of it were funny or not, this is a subject that should not have been made light of. For them to do so was very poor taste.

Descent
August 3rd, 2006, 04:59 AM
This episode was great, really made me laugh in places.

Ronon: "..hes a very wise and kind man.."
(cut to Sheppard later)
"Alright, this is really starting to freak me out."

9/10

gooner_diva
August 3rd, 2006, 06:26 AM
And I think it does a disservice to the women around the world who are being brutalized, tortured and killed to call Lucius' crimes by the same name. But that's me.
I don't mean to undermine your experience in any way, but I have to vehemently disagree with that statement. Rape doesn't necessarily mean someone is being brutalised, tortured and killed. So these women weren't physically overpowered, they weren't held down against their will. Drugs can do strange things to people. They may have been enjoying themselves, but once they sobered up and realised what was going on, I doubt they were. What is the argument anyway? They weren't mutilated so it wasn't rape? Technically, a minor can say "yes" to a sexual intercourse with an adult - they can like it, even initiate it - but it's still called statutory rape because as a democratic society we have decided that minors cannot make such decisions for themselves. If a person doesn't object to sex because they're under the influence of a date rape drug, it's still rape. Once you've stripped a person of their free will with the help of a drug, they cannot be held responsible for their actions.

I don't care if he used the drug on himself as opposed to them. He was still influencing other people's decision-making processes. This goes way beyond appearing more likeable, or sociable, he used the drug to have sex with at least one woman who had rejected him in the past.

I mean, seriously. Does anyone here honestly believe that Weir would have sent one of her teams to a Wraith outpost if the guy had simply been using a nice cologne or if he'd had a plastic surgery? Would Beckett have given him the ATA gene therapy on the account of him smelling nice? There is simply no comparison between a date rape drug and a perfume. A perfume makes someone more appealing to someone else by getting rid of their BO, it doesn't make the other person unable to make rational decisions for themselves (forget advertising).

Also, before someone informs me that I've missed the real intent of this episode - I am well aware that its intent wasn't to raise these serious issues. Its purpose was to entertain me. Well, it didn't. It failed miserably. Perhaps I'm taking this fantasy world way too seriously as some of you have pointed out. Maybe. However, I still think it's dangerous to send your viewers messages like "let's all laugh at the serial rapist" - in real life or fantasy world. I thought we had come a long way as a civilisation since the "good" old days when it was either the victim's fault she was raped or "she liked it anyway". We can only speculate as to how many women out there have been date raped and did not report it because they feared no one would believe them just because they didn't suffer permanent injuries. While there are television shows out there like SVU that are trying to raise awareness of these serious issues, you still have shows like SGA that ridicule them with episodes like Irresistible a.k.a. Delicious Fat Guy.

KindlyKeller
August 3rd, 2006, 07:06 AM
But the "ridicule" of serious issues like rape kind of implies they were doing it in a premediated way, doesn't it? You can fancy them idiots for not realizing (as I'm sure a whole lot of people here do), but there was no malice on their part, in my opinion. And like I said, the notion of rape didn't even occur to me until I read it on here.

ladysarah
August 3rd, 2006, 07:08 AM
But the "ridicule" of serious issues like rape kind of implies they were doing it in a premediated way, doesn't it? You can fancy them idiots for not realizing (as I'm sure a whole lot of people here do), but there was no malice on their part, in my opinion. And like I said, the notion of rape didn't even occur to me until I read it on here.

You saw a woman refusing to have sex with a man, refusing him a number of times, and then having sex with him after she comes under the influence of the drug, and you didn't think consent, or lack of consent was something that was raised on the show?

Hmmmm.....well, I find that interesting.

KindlyKeller
August 3rd, 2006, 07:47 AM
I always have to smile at how patronizing you are in your posts. That's not even an insult either, it's borderline endearing.

Anyway...

Maybe that would've been on my mind if it had only been the women Lucias' influence effected, but I was too busy concentrating on the wacky antics and OOC behavior of the main cast to even really stop and think about the "serious issues" and "realities" under the surface. Perhaps if I was one of the women who had the terribly unfortunate circumstance befall me, that would have jumped out and slapped me in the face as it seemed to do for a lot of other people.

But still, you're missing my point. The writers weren't thinking, "We've got a rape show here. Let's put a funny spin on it" or "yeah, it's rape, but it's a comedy show, so it's okay," in my opinion. I figure it was more along the lines of, "Everyone will just be totally swept up by this guy. Oh! And we'll give him a bunch of wives too, and they'll all wave to him simultaneously!"

I mean, honestly, I totally get what you're saying and even though it didn't bother me during the show because it didn't occur to me, it doesn't sit perfectly with me now. HOWEVER, the only point I'm trying to make is that the writers wrote this not with malice, but with a degree of obliviousness, the same one I had when watching the episode.

Trialia
August 3rd, 2006, 07:48 AM
Precisely my point, MMC. They didn't consider it, and they should have done.

MB.Eddie
August 3rd, 2006, 08:08 AM
And like I said, the notion of rape didn't even occur to me until I read it on here.

Dito...

silverdamascus
August 3rd, 2006, 08:12 AM
MB.Eddie may I ask has reading those criticisms changed your view of the episode? Do you agree with them at all?

MB.Eddie
August 3rd, 2006, 08:18 AM
MB.Eddie may I ask has reading those criticisms changed your view of the episode? Do you agree with them at all?

Sort of...

We didnt see him force the women to do anything. The drug makes others want to please him, and i guess that differs from person to person.

Having said that, drugging people is not on, so i guess taking rape arguments into account now, im slightly more critical.

However, im sure the writers never meant to offend anyone.

Its also interesting that in SG1's 'Hathor', she made the males of the base do similar things. I wonder if people consider this rape too???

Trialia
August 3rd, 2006, 08:24 AM
Its also interesting that in SG1's 'Hathor', she made the males of the base do similar things. I wonder if people consider this rape too???
Absolutely, and even then I was disappointed that TPTB didn't deal with Daniel's reaction to it in the aftermath.

prion
August 3rd, 2006, 09:45 AM
Sort of...

We didnt see him force the women to do anything. The drug makes others want to please him, and i guess that differs from person to person.

Having said that, drugging people is not on, so i guess taking rape arguments into account now, im slightly more critical.

However, im sure the writers never meant to offend anyone.

Its also interesting that in SG1's 'Hathor', she made the males of the base do similar things. I wonder if people consider this rape too???

I don't think rape came into context when the writers penned this story. You could tell it was written from a man's point of view as some see it as harmless; hey, the women were affected by phermones, therefore, it just made them more willing to do what they wanted. It really doesn't matter if woman A wanted to sex with Guy A; if Guy A slips her a mickey which lowers her willpower, dopes her with phermones, and doesn't give her informed consent, it's considered a big fat NO and gets you tossed in jail (at least here).

What Lucius did was WRONG. Let's say that the episode went darkside and Elizabeth (*shudder*) found herself in bed with Lucius and when she regained her senses, I'm sure she wouldn't be going "Oh, it's okay." If she'd willingly taken the phermone and knew the dangers involved, it would be a different matter.

If Lucius had Rodney giving him the ZPM and the generators, etc and inviting the Genii over for a sleepover, that is NOT something Rodney would do willingly. The phermones did more than make someone easy to suggestion; the more exposure, the more altered the personality became.

Because it ended 'harmlessly' for our folk, we can laugh at it. And a situation like this would be all the SGC would need to come down heavy-handed on everybody on Atlantis for letting it happen. (although SG1 had that, er, regrettable "Hathor" incident as well which they survived).

prion
August 3rd, 2006, 09:47 AM
Absolutely, and even then I was disappointed that TPTB didn't deal with Daniel's reaction to it in the aftermath.

Veering OT, but daniel should be a basketcase in some respects afte rall that's been done with him. He's died several times, nastily, yet bounces back better than Coyote in ROAD RUNNER cartoons. The writers deal with any kind of emotional repercussions off-screen.

silverdamascus
August 3rd, 2006, 10:50 AM
Sort of...

We didnt see him force the women to do anything. The drug makes others want to please him, and i guess that differs from person to person.

Having said that, drugging people is not on, so i guess taking rape arguments into account now, im slightly more critical.

However, im sure the writers never meant to offend anyone.

Its also interesting that in SG1's 'Hathor', she made the males of the base do similar things. I wonder if people consider this rape too???

It wasn't force, but they were only willing because they were drugged, which he did on purpose. That's still rape and in my mind just as horiffic.

As for Hathor, the drugging part was the same certainly....I can't recall if Hathor had sex with any of the guys but what she did to Jack was, as I recall forgive my memory, a metaphor at least if not the exact same situation.

To be fair I don't think the writers meant any offence either but they were inconsiderate and foolish to ever let something like this go through. I don't think that makes it any better.

I'm glad that after reading some of these arguements people are now beginning to think about it.

ultness
August 3rd, 2006, 11:10 AM
I am inclined to just take it as a humorous episode and move on. I don't think over-analyzing something like this is constructive. The writers didn't intend for the episode to be a serious situation involving date rape drugs. It was intended to be a funny episode, where an obnoxious guy makes potions to get other people to like him. You can over analyze any episode you want and find some possible "what ifs" that could be thought as offensive.

I guess if I were to analyze it in this way that many of you are.. I would say that it's no different from what Hathor was doing. Just because males are more receptive to sexual advances to begin with ... does not mean Lucious' crimes are any worse than Hathors. The point is.. they are both using chemical / drug / fermones (spelling) to bend peoples will.

bluealien
August 3rd, 2006, 11:44 AM
I am inclined to just take it as a humorous episode and move on. I don't think over-analyzing something like this is constructive. The writers didn't intend for the episode to be a serious situation involving date rape drugs. It was intended to be a funny episode, where an obnoxious guy makes potions to get other people to like him. You can over analyze any episode you want and find some possible "what ifs" that could be thought as offensive.


I agree.

I don't think the writers had any intention of condoning rape and they didn't write the characters doing so either.

Lucius was a sleasy creep and he used the drug to enhance certain pheremones that would attract people to him - both men and women by the looks of things. Yes it was wrong and no-one ever said it wasn't. He was handed back to his own people who could minister any punishment they saw fit - for all we know they may have strung him up by now - so when did anyone actually condone what Lucius did.

Trialia
August 3rd, 2006, 12:02 PM
Veering OT, but daniel should be a basketcase in some respects afte rall that's been done with him. He's died several times, nastily, yet bounces back better than Coyote in ROAD RUNNER cartoons. The writers deal with any kind of emotional repercussions off-screen.
I know! :P S'partly why I don't watch SG-1 regularly anymore. ;)

Nolamom
August 3rd, 2006, 12:42 PM
As for Hathor, the drugging part was the same certainly....I can't recall if Hathor had sex with any of the guys
Uh, yeah, Daniel - she needed the "code of life" his DNA...

I think the big difference between "Hathor" and this episode is that Hathor was presented as evil - we knew that she was bad, no redeeming qualities, no dressing it up as "funny" .

In this episode the audience is tricked into thinking that what Lucias does is okay because it's funny. The writers really needed some beta readers on this script to point out this major flaw. They could have made him a really likable jolly fellow, without the sexual element. That would have removed the rape element and laid to rest 98% of the problems with this episode.

PG15
August 3rd, 2006, 04:08 PM
Uh...no. What was funny was the reaction of our cast. I think it was blatantly obvious, given how Shep reacted to Lucius, that what his did was NOT OK.

The bottom line is, this episode is a comedy one, so the writers strove for laughs. Unfortunatley some saw rape while others like me saw an age-old sci-fi plot that ultimately made the main cast act silly.

Scarym1
August 3rd, 2006, 04:12 PM
First off let me say that this is just my humble opinion, not meant to insult anyone - I'm just voicing my views. While this part of the discussion might need to be taken to another thread I have to say that I don't see the rape aspect of it. I'm sitting here watching it through the second time trying to see what some of you are saying about "rape" and I don't see it. He drugged himself and produced a "super" pheramone which everyone reacted to. Yeah, he lied to everyone within earshot but how does that make it rape? He also married these women, he didn't sleep with them and dump them. To take the point a step farther, although he had ample opportunity he didn't sleep with either Teyla or Weir (or Carson) - he talked about marriage (although not with Carson).

Due Respect, but have none of you been out to the bars lately and come up against that one creepy guy who seems to (excuse the expression) charm the pants off of the women while you stand there wondering why? To me it's the same thing only more so. IMHO to tack a charge of rape on it I think takes it a bit over the top.
__________________



"All at the same time" Yes, ewww. For me, that's creepy and disgusting but for others, it may be a good time. (How many of you laughed about Jack dreaming about "twins"? )That's an orgy, not rape. Again, he drugged himself, not them. He increased his own body's natural biological processes. They reacted to him. On Earth it's plastic surgery, big hair and skin tight leather. I guess it just depends on how you look at it. :)

Also, why is everyone focusing just on the sex? (Oh - Duh, Sela.) He affected everyone around them. Why aren't people as outraged about manipulating Carson to give him the gene therapy and trying to steal a jumper, putting SGA members lives in danger to get the herb, and putting all of Atlantis in danger of discovery from the Wraith? He made Ronon pull a gun on Shep for crying out loud - and shoot him?! To me, that's pretty bad, if you think about it.

I'm just sayin.... ;)

I enjoyed this ep very much. I was quite surprsised to see all this chat about how it was rape. I agree with Sela points, I just don't see it that as rape.

Descent
August 3rd, 2006, 05:02 PM
I take it purely as a humor episode. Speculation about Lucius and his motives is just unnessacery guys.

Trialia
August 3rd, 2006, 05:06 PM
Speculation about Lucius and his motives is just unnessacery guys.
You wouldn't be saying that had you ever been in a similar situation to that of his wives, I'm sure.

I didn't just see the undertones of this episode, I felt them, and it affected me worse than anything has done in the last year with regard to what happened to me. I'm not willing to watch it through again, no matter what the writers' original motives were.

BubblingOverWithIdeas
August 3rd, 2006, 06:15 PM
Urgo didn't hold them prisoner, that was his creator Togar.

Shep'sSocks
August 3rd, 2006, 09:35 PM
I am inclined to just take it as a humorous episode and move on. I don't think over-analyzing something like this is constructive. The writers didn't intend for the episode to be a serious situation involving date rape drugs. It was intended to be a funny episode, where an obnoxious guy makes potions to get other people to like him. You can over analyze any episode you want and find some possible "what ifs" that could be thought as offensive.

I guess if I were to analyze it in this way that many of you are.. I would say that it's no different from what Hathor was doing. Just because males are more receptive to sexual advances to begin with ... does not mean Lucious' crimes are any worse than Hathors. The point is.. they are both using chemical / drug / fermones (spelling) to bend peoples will.

I also equate it as the same thing and there was plenty of post-Hathor fanfic that indicated that the writers also thought it was a rape.

smushybird
August 3rd, 2006, 09:59 PM
The writers deal with any kind of emotional repercussions off-screen.


The writers don't deal with emotional repercussions at all, that I've seen.

Shep'sSocks
August 3rd, 2006, 10:46 PM
The writers don't deal with emotional repercussions at all, that I've seen.

Some writers deal with it better than others but episode TV of any nature tends to be self-contained, storywise and emotionally, because most TV viewers are casual. We're a little different because we're invested in the show. We want the payoff and I, at least, complain loudly when I don't get it.

In terms of some writers dealing with it better than others, I'd say that those who learnt writing out of a book, without workshopping and feedback, are the ones who don't deal with it as well as those who have workshopped. This is a general observation from experience rather than being limited to SG writers.

Linzi
August 4th, 2006, 12:11 AM
Uh...no. What was funny was the reaction of our cast. I think it was blatantly obvious, given how Shep reacted to Lucius, that his did was NOT OK.

The bottom line is, this episode is a comedy one, so the writers strove for laughs. Unfortunatley some saw rape while others like me saw an age-old sci-fi plot that ultimately made the main cast act silly.
You know, I agree. The look on Sheppard's face when Willa said she'd refused Lucious' bed on a number of occasions showed that he was pretty repulsed and not happy about what he heard. Sheppard is the leading man, and the episode was viewed pretty much from his perspective.
He was the only character who was in control of his faculties, and the 'voice of reason'. Thus, I think the writers were definitely saying what Lucious did was wrong, and that they didn't condone his actions. Sheppard certainly didn't. But, rape issues aside, this was a light-hearted episode, and I don't think for one minute it was written to deal with the serious and disturbing topic of rape, which is dreadful in any form, violent, or not, IMO.
I watched this episode having seen people's concerns here, and I really enjoyed the episode. However, I had to suspend belief in certain parts, because, being drugged to make you want to like or have sex with another isn't nice. But, this is fiction, and for me, I could easily suspend belief and enjoy the light hearted side of Irresisitible.

KindlyKeller
August 4th, 2006, 03:48 AM
That's a very fair point and one I don't even know that I'd care to argue. I just felt like some thought they were being malicious more than they were just being sadly unobservant.

Unfortunately, having enjoyed the show, every time I think back on it, it bothers me more. Was foolish on the writers' parts.

silverdamascus
August 4th, 2006, 05:22 AM
Ok, I can understand this:

I am inclined to just take it as a humorous episode and move on.

I don't agree with that but I understand it.

What I don't understand is this:
I enjoyed this ep very much. I was quite surprsised to see all this chat about how it was rape. I agree with Sela points, I just don't see it that as rape.

Chemically altering a womans brain functions for the express purpose of having sex with her because she wouldn't otherwise.

How can you possibly justify that as not being rape?

kerriatorch
August 4th, 2006, 07:30 AM
I'm with the people who see the episode as creepy, and deliberately so. Yes, there were some fantastic light-hearted moments - I loved McKay and Sheppard's impromptu fanboy Batman trivia contest - but on the whole I thought the episode had an undertone of creepy horror that reminded me more of Invasion of the Body Snatchers than anything else. Sheppard had to watch as one by one his friends turned into people he couldn't recognize, and I found that scary, particularly in a show that's so much about a tightly knit team.

I guess I saw the "sex slave" aspect of the ep as one instance among many others of ways that people in this episode had their will, reason, and loyalties stripped away, all so Lucius could further his own interests or wishes. The Atlanteans were forced to endanger the security of the city and to use every scrap of their hard-earned knowledge and talents to do Lucius' bidding. It seems as if they were lucky -- the Wraith, apparently, didn't find the city -- but the consquences of that incredibly dangerous expedition to get Lucius' herb might have destroyed Atlantis and ultimately even Earth. But Lucius? He didn't care.

In my book he's a villain and meant to be a villain. Maybe he's the most dangerous kind, too: the kind that seems like such a pathetic loser that you can underestimate him and let him slip past your defenses, which is exactly what happened, for a while. It's kind of humiliating that the only thing standing between Atlantis and certain doom in this ep was John's cold. (A bit of War of the Worlds there?)

So for me, despite a few great comic lines in this episode, a creepy, weirdly fascinating episode.

Metarock Sam
August 4th, 2006, 07:56 AM
I thought it was a great episode, laugh out loud funny !!!! and Sateda looks fantastic :D :D :D

Captain Ødegård
August 4th, 2006, 10:26 AM
Woo kind of new to these forums, ie posted one post some time ago then nothing for long because I just got internet at home.

ANYWAYS, Must say this one was cool in some ways, though sg1 was my favorite this week. Richard Kind has also been a guest star on Scrubs twice, and he is really fun to watch; creepy in some ways, though imo he is a good actor. Wish they had made the atlantis episode interact with the sg1 episode though, could have made for an interesting twist

BackStageJim
August 4th, 2006, 11:28 AM
Never really liked 'haircut' shows.
You can see the punch line an hour away.

Steven_the_Atlantean
August 6th, 2006, 03:51 AM
This episode was so fruity especially McKay but hilarious; good to see were still continuing searching the Pegasus galaxy.
McKay in the end, still has the herb, Hahahahahahahahahaha, Absolutely Hilarious.

SGalisa
August 6th, 2006, 02:11 PM
been too tired to write, so this is getting posted late.

"Irresistible": Richard Kind as Lucius Lavin
a way for TPTB to get back at all those STAKS postings...?? :p

When Shep and McKay went looking for everyone at Atlantis...
the look on Shep's and McKay's face was priceless!! :D

until McKay fell under Lucius Lavin's love/obedience spell-
uhh, what's wrong with this picture...
...girl gaggling role reversals...

Ronon, Teyla, Weir, Zelenka... all mesmerized by Lucius *Lovin*...
yeah.

ending... Shep got over his cold quick enough. His histamine pheramone blockers stopped working. McKay was soooooo *evil*...! That was something I've often imagined McKay always wanting to do to play a practical joke on Shep for a long, long time. But what we didn't see was Shep's reaction to McKay after the pheramone effects wore off.

Thinking: watch McKay run! ;)

agent_omf
August 8th, 2006, 09:04 PM
this episode reminds me of the Red Dwarf episodes with the positive viruses.

Anubis-
August 11th, 2006, 03:58 PM
McKay says, that they must have a bridge from stargates to earth, but other gate between Atlantis and earth can not watch over from the wraith and so wraith can walk to milkyway with darts?

Trialia
August 11th, 2006, 04:07 PM
Anybody get the feeling that this episode was why Sateda's ratings weren't so hot?

gambit
August 11th, 2006, 05:44 PM
Anybody get the feeling that this episode was why Sateda's ratings weren't so hot?

Probably, that's usually what happens; one episode wasn't too good and following episode suffers in the ratings because of it.

PG15
August 11th, 2006, 08:35 PM
Insiders sure didn't fit that rule.

TPL2005
August 11th, 2006, 08:44 PM
I enjoyed that episode, rape hadn't entered my mind until i read it on here and now i don't think i look upon it in quite the same way.

I'm left in mood that can be summed up by the sound 'hmm...'

Trialia
August 12th, 2006, 08:56 AM
Insiders sure didn't fit that rule.
??? Was that the SG-1 episode last week? I don't watch SG-1 anymore.

PG15
August 12th, 2006, 02:53 PM
Yeah, it's a SG1 ep, right after the amazing "Pegasus Project".

Pitry
August 14th, 2006, 02:57 AM
I'm going to shamefull admit. I actually did find myself laughing - depsite myself - during that episode.
I didn't expect it to be brilliant - or hilarious- or great - and it wans't any of these. It was merely... somewhat amusing.

I actually don't have a lot to say on that episode, TBH. Glad to see they're utilising Beckett more this season. Want more Zelenca. It was nice to see a bit more sensible Rodney. Er, the joke in the end with Sheppard and Rodney was amusing? Ronon can smile?....

*tries*

The Signal
August 14th, 2006, 10:31 AM
I am slightly ashamed to admit I quite liked this, the dialogue again was very good, and once again exceptional when it came to McKay and Shep. It was nice to see Ronan out of character and laughing, because IMO in the rightcircumstances those sorts of things can be very good. Once again though, this one had its downfalls, the resolution was fast, and didnt even make a great deal of sence. Despite that, an enjoyable episode,

7/10

buzlighty1
October 31st, 2006, 09:44 AM
This episode by far is the worst of the season. Too much like Mudd's Women in Star Trek to me.

Trialia
October 31st, 2006, 09:52 AM
...

For anyone who doesn't already know, the UK satellite/digital premiere of this episode is tomorrow night.

Elite Anubis Guard
November 2nd, 2006, 10:48 AM
It was a cool episode, nice and fun but I just felt it didn't stand up to Duet. It was a cool idea, somewhat tried and tested amongst sci-fi but it just didn't quite have what it takes.

Sure, I loved seeing Carson act gay but still, wasn't the best.

Celtic Wizard
November 2nd, 2006, 11:04 AM
I have to admitt that out of the three seasons so far, that was one of the worst.

lily
November 2nd, 2006, 11:28 AM
I've already watched it more than 15 times and it's still one of my fave epis. Funny in lots of parts, and lots of great character moments. Still love it.

Linzi
November 2nd, 2006, 11:40 AM
I've already watched it more than 15 times and it's still one of my fave epis. Funny in lots of parts, and lots of great character moments. Still love it.
I love it too, Lily. So, you're not alone! :)

mckaychick
November 2nd, 2006, 11:56 AM
wow ive seen the episode once and thats all im going to see it. I thought it was kind of stuipd

Rootortoise
November 2nd, 2006, 04:42 PM
I've already watched it more than 15 times and it's still one of my fave epis. Funny in lots of parts, and lots of great character moments. Still love it.
yep me too i still absolutely love irresistable, it remains one of my fav season 3 eps so far!! sheppard especially had some great character moments in it!

obsessed1
November 3rd, 2006, 03:04 PM
i think this episode it so funny. Sheppard is perfect in it. It remains one of my favourite episodes. Light hearted, comedic...etc

Love it :D

Trialia
November 3rd, 2006, 03:09 PM
Still think it's the worst out of all - including all the SG-1 episodes I've ever seen, not only Atlantis.

MissX
November 3rd, 2006, 03:55 PM
I think this is an amazing episode, there's no other word for it! It was a good comedic episode but with dark undertones too - Like the scene with Shep in the cell - It just works! I can't understand why anyone would think otherwise *shrugs*

Trialia
November 3rd, 2006, 04:01 PM
Frankly, I can't understand how anybody could enjoy it. Again, I'll repeat myself: this episode put me through three weeks of nightmares, flashbacks, vomiting and migraines, and I will never watch it again.

MissX
November 3rd, 2006, 04:11 PM
Frankly, I can't understand how anybody could enjoy it. Again, I'll repeat myself: this episode put me through three weeks of nightmares, flashbacks, vomiting and migraines, and I will never watch it again.

Goodness me what a bad reaction! Atlantis is said to be the darker of the Stargates and so surely it would be clear that it would be a little uncomfortable to watch. on occasion.

The writers obviously intended it to be a humorous episode - I think some people may have taken it to heart somewhat. It is just a show! An hour of entertainment each week.

As with anything uncomfortable, you just have to suspend your emotions for the duration of it, and enjoy it for what it is. I would be rather concerned if it provoked a reaction like this in me *shrugs*

However, I do appreciate the fact you have had negative past experiences, which you could relate to the episode. This does not change the fact that it is a brilliant episode, it merely biases your perception of it.

Trialia
November 3rd, 2006, 04:15 PM
Goodness me what a bad reaction! Atlantis is said to be the darker of the Stargates and so surely it would be clear that it would be a little uncomfortable to watch. on occasion.

The writers obviously intended it to be a humorous episode - I think some people may have taken it to heart somewhat. It is just a show! An hour of entertainment each week.

As with anything uncomfortable, you just have to suspend your emotions for the duration of it, and enjoy it for what it is. I would be rather concerned if it provoked a reaction like this in me *shrugs*

However, I do appreciate the fact you have had negative past experiences, which you could relate to the episode. This does not change the fact that it is a brilliant episode, it merely biases your perception of it.
Dark is fine; I've enjoyed dark episodes before. Unfortunately, with some things, suspension of emotion is very nearly impossible, and this is one of those things. I can watch Law & Order: SVU without a problem. What I can't watch is writers on my favourite show trying to make an episode with a specific situation amusing, when it really is NOT something that should be laughed at.

I wasn't the only person who reacted badly to this episode. A friend of mine who was date-raped has stopped watching Atlantis altogether because of it.

MissX
November 3rd, 2006, 04:23 PM
Dark is fine; I've enjoyed dark episodes before. Unfortunately, with some things, suspension of emotion is very nearly impossible, and this is one of those things. I can watch Law & Order: SVU without a problem. What I can't watch is writers on my favourite show trying to make an episode with a specific situation amusing, when it really is NOT something that should be laughed at.

I wasn't the only person who reacted badly to this episode. A friend of mine who was date-raped has stopped watching Atlantis altogether because of it.

So you didn't persuade your friend that all the other episodes are actually really brilliant?! :P

Most situations have a comedic element, I feel the writers actually did a really great job of trying to draw this out in the episode.

The main point I am trying to make is the fact that this is, in the majority of people's minds, an amazing episode - You are simply negatively biased against it. I am sure you are not the only viewer with similar experiences.

Trialia
November 3rd, 2006, 04:29 PM
So you didn't persuade your friend that all the other episodes are actually really brilliant?! :P

Most situations have a comedic element, I feel the writers actually did a really great job of trying to draw this out in the episode.

The main point I am trying to make is the fact that this is, in the majority of people's minds, an amazing episode - You are simply negatively biased against it. I am sure you are not the only viewer with similar experiences.
She knows they are. She was a devoted fan up until that; she is a regular member of this forum.

Unfortunately, I have to disagree. There's a line in relation to making what is essentially sexual assault comedic, and IMHO, yes, TPTB crossed it with this episode. It's still being treated as irrelevant and belittled in parts of the Western world as well as other countries, and what they did with this episode set a horrible example, and I am praying that it does not set a precedent.

Perhaps I am. But you're clearly positively biased for it - that some people on this thread love it doesn't make it a brilliant episode; look at The Real World, for example. Some people loved it in spite of its being a cliche, some people hated it for that. Opinion is divided. I won't say that people are idiots for liking or disliking an episode I dislike or like, and I don't expect anyone to say it about me either.

MissX
November 3rd, 2006, 04:39 PM
She knows they are. She was a devoted fan up until that; she is a regular member of this forum.

Unfortunately, I have to disagree. There's a line in relation to making what is essentially sexual assault comedic, and IMHO, yes, TPTB crossed it with this episode. It's still being treated as irrelevant and belittled in parts of the Western world as well as other countries, and what they did with this episode set a horrible example, and I am praying that it does not set a precedent.

Perhaps I am. But you're clearly positively biased for it - that some people on this thread love it doesn't make it a brilliant episode; look at The Real World, for example. Some people loved it in spite of its being a cliche, some people hated it for that. Opinion is divided. I won't say that people are idiots for liking or disliking an episode I dislike or like, and I don't expect anyone to say it about me either.

I am not calling you an idiot! I'm simply stating my opinion. I feel a little bit of banter is often a positive thing!

I obviously do NOT enjoy negative portrayals of sensitive topics such as sexual assault, I am just saying that in this instance, I do not feel it was a negative portrayal.

I make my own mind up about episodes, and I am not affected by the thoughts of others on this forum. I sometimes feel debate is good though, as you get to consider things from another person's point of view. Sharing thoughts, debating opinions ... Surely that is the point of these forums!

Trialia
November 3rd, 2006, 04:42 PM
I didn't say you were, sorry. I was speaking hypothetically.

TBH, I really think they took it just a bit too far with this one.

MissX
November 3rd, 2006, 04:46 PM
I didn't say you were, sorry. I was speaking hypothetically.

TBH, I really think they took it just a bit too far with this one.

I think we shall just have to agree to disagree.

Trialia
November 3rd, 2006, 04:49 PM
I think we shall just have to agree to disagree.
Indeed.

But, how come using that plot on this show can be found funny by people who are flaming its use on Torchwood?

MissX
November 3rd, 2006, 04:51 PM
Indeed.

But, how come using that plot on this show can be found funny by people who are flaming its use on Torchwood?

Now that I cannot comment on. I'm not a Torchwood fan.

Trialia
November 3rd, 2006, 04:55 PM
Now that I cannot comment on. I'm not a Torchwood fan.
I don't watch it myself. I've just had it brought up to me on MSN that some of the people posting glee about this episode here are reacting in the opposite way over there.

MissX
November 3rd, 2006, 04:57 PM
I don't watch it myself. I've just had it brought up to me on MSN that some of the people posting glee about this episode here are reacting in the opposite way over there.

I don't know anything about this. This is a little off-topic don't you think...

Trialia
November 3rd, 2006, 05:00 PM
I don't know anything about this. This is a little off-topic don't you think...
Only slightly. Eh. I just thought it was an interesting parallel sidelight. Anyway, back to watching Divide and Conquer for me! *slips off*

lily
November 3rd, 2006, 06:03 PM
I think this is an amazing episode, there's no other word for it! It was a good comedic episode but with dark undertones too - Like the scene with Shep in the cell -

Exactly. I love it because it's a great comedic episode with dark undertones. And I love that scene with Shep in the cell too. But then I love so many scenes that it could be impossible to list them all. I said it before and I say it again. Already watched it more than 15 times and I still love it. But then, I've watched all the SGA episodes more than 15 times and I still love most of them, and the ones I don't love, I still like them a lot, enough to watch them many more times :D

Linzi
November 4th, 2006, 02:20 AM
I thought this might be interesting to posters in this thread.
Here are Martin Wood's thoughts on Irresistible, from an interview in the Starburst Yearbook, Issue 78:
Martin Wood:
"I know there was a concern from certain fans that Lucius is 'drugging' these people, but that's not in the spirit of the series," says the director. "This isn't about date rape or anything like that. That's not what it's purporting to be. Irresistible is meant to be fun and if you take it and make it something else by applying current social mores to it, then it gets too easy to do that with everything else.
The episode is about a guy who is completely irresistible for very selfish reasons, but certainly not nefarious ones.He doesn't do it to be a villain, and that's the story we told."

bluealien
November 4th, 2006, 02:37 AM
I thought this might be interesting to posters in this thread.
Here are Martin Wood's thoughts on Irresistible, from an interview in the Starburst Yearbook, Issue 78:
Martin Wood:
"I know there was a concern from certain fans that Lucius is 'drugging' these people, but that's not in the spirit of the series," says the director. "This isn't about date rape or anything like that. That's not what it's purporting to be. Irresistible is meant to be fun and if you take it and make it something else by applying current social mores to it, then it gets too easy to do that with everything else.
The episode is about a guy who is completely irresistible for very selfish reasons, but certainly not nefarious ones.He doesn't do it to be a villain, and that's the story we told."


Thanks for that Linzi - I took the ep the way Martin Wood described it. It was a very funny light hearted episode and I have watched it probably as much as Common Ground - thats how much I liked it. Its possible to apply ones own personal experiences to many things and to look deeper into the meaning behind a story. But I just took it on face value and enjoyed it immensely.

Linzi
November 4th, 2006, 02:43 AM
Thanks for that Linzi - I took the ep the way Martin Wood described it. It was a very funny light hearted episode and I have watched it probably as much as Common Ground - thats how much I liked it. Its possible to apply ones own personal experiences to many things and to look deeper into the meaning behind a story. But I just took it on face value and enjoyed it immensely.
Ditto. The other aspects of it didn't occur to me until I read them here, to be honest.

Rachel500
November 4th, 2006, 03:12 AM
I thought this might be interesting to posters in this thread.
Here are Martin Wood's thoughts on Irresistible, from an interview in the Starburst Yearbook, Issue 78:
Martin Wood:
"I know there was a concern from certain fans that Lucius is 'drugging' these people, but that's not in the spirit of the series," says the director. "This isn't about date rape or anything like that. That's not what it's purporting to be. Irresistible is meant to be fun and if you take it and make it something else by applying current social mores to it, then it gets too easy to do that with everything else.
The episode is about a guy who is completely irresistible for very selfish reasons, but certainly not nefarious ones.He doesn't do it to be a villain, and that's the story we told."

Thanks for posting. I have to say I agree with someone who posted early in the thread that it doesn't actually matter what TPTB intended, the story that ended up on screen does raise the subject of rape within the dialogue and events that play out. Yes, it doesn't make it a central theme and the purpose of the story is not to focus on the rape aspects but actually I think that's where a lot of fans who have picked up on the rape angle feel TPTB let them down - because Lucius does rape the women certainly in his own village and the topic is supposed to be taken as light-hearted fun and not seriously. It's a serious abrogation of moral responsibility, IMO, because it encourages the idea that its OK to drug someone for sex. Well, hey - it isn't. Ever.

For me, I don't think TPTB worked the various consequences of the story through enough. I think they had the idea of 'wouldn't it be funny if there was this unattractive guy who was actually irresistible to everyone around him' but then failed to construct a story on that concept that truly allowed it to be just light-hearted fun. By having Lucius purposefully take a drug that he knew would affect how others perceived him and allow him to get whatever he wants including sex (which was played up a lot in the dialogue) does make him a villain not a comic figure. Indeed, the story actually highlights Lucius as an unlikeable, power-hungry villain (which is actually to the story's credit because at least in terms of the rape aspects he doesn't come across as a sympathetic character) and certainly in some scenes he actually does come across as menacing (particularly the scene with Sheppard in the cell).

Had Lucius been born with a strange genetic mutation that produced the hormone naturally rather than him purposefully taking the potion, the story would have had a completely different complexion because Lucius would be unaware of why people liked him and wanted to do things for him; only that they did. His intent would have been different.

I actually do think the story that made it on screen is confused and while there are some highly enjoyable individual moments (the Batman conversation, the hair thing, Shep and Carson in the jumper, 'fly Lucius fly'), the whole does not work for me. Had they actually dealt with the darker aspects of the story and made it into a dark comedy rather than aiming for lighthearted fun it might have actually worked better. This is SGA's version of SG1's Brief Candle, IMO (another episode where rape is quietly ignored within the storyline), and just as I don't watch that episode willingly again, neither will I watch this.

Alipeeps
November 4th, 2006, 03:29 AM
Thanks for posting. I have to say I agree with someone who posted early in the thread that it doesn't actually matter what TPTB intended, the story that ended up on screen does raise the subject of rape within the dialogue and events that play out. Yes, it doesn't make it a central theme and the purpose of the story is not to focus on the rape aspects but actually I think that's where a lot of fans who have picked up on the rape angle feel TPTB let them down - because Lucius does rape the women certainly in his own village and the topic is supposed to be taken as light-hearted fun and not seriously. It's a serious abrogagtion of moral responsibility, IMO, because it encourages the idea that its OK to drug someone for sex. Well, hey - it isn't. Ever.


Well that is one issue where I do have to adamantly disagree with you. The episode in no way condones what Lucius did or encourages the idea that it is ok to drug people - for any reason. I thought the entire episode made it very clear that Lucius using this drug was a bad thing - the scene in the jail cell with Sheppard and Lucius in particular was really quite dark and serious and brought out the very clear message that what this man was doing was wrong.

I have to agree with Martin Wood's comments on the episode as this was and still is my opinion on it. It was intended to be a light-hearted episode and not some deep social commentary. It is perhaps unfortunate that the plot involved even tangentially issues that are, of course, extremely personal for some people and which have coloured their view of the episode. I feel the problem perhaps though stems more from the lack of resolution... in that many people feel that Lucius should have been harshly punished for his actions. What we have to accept however is that this is family-oriented TV and you simply cannot have it even stated (never mind shown) that a character is e.g. put to death (as had been suggested by some people) by his people because of his crimes.

Linzi
November 4th, 2006, 04:42 AM
Well that is one issue where I do have to adamantly disagree with you. The episode in no way condones what Lucius did or encourages the idea that it is ok to drug people - for any reason. I thought the entire episode made it very clear that Lucius using this drug was a bad thing - the scene in the jail cell with Sheppard and Lucius in particular was really quite dark and serious and brought out the very clear message that what this man was doing was wrong.

I have to agree with Martin Wood's comments on the episode as this was and still is my opinion on it. It was intended to be a light-hearted episode and not some deep social commentary. It is perhaps unfortunate that the plot involved even tangentially issues that are, of course, extremely personal for some people and which have coloured their view of the episode. I feel the problem perhaps though stems more from the lack of resolution... in that many people feel that Lucius should have been harshly punished for his actions. What we have to accept however is that this is family-oriented TV and you simply cannot have it even stated (never mind shown) that a character is e.g. put to death (as had been suggested by some people) by his people because of his crimes.
I'm inclined to agree with you here, Ali. I enjoyed the episode, and didn't for one minute think TPTB were commenting on date rape etc.. However, when I read people's posts, certainly those who had suffered horrifying experiences of date rape or assault, I could certainly see their points of views here.
I felt that, through Sheppard, we were meant to see that the writer definitely didn't approve of Lucius' actions, and that, Sheppard, as the moral voice here, thought Lucius was pretty repulsive.
As I've said before, some of the scenes in Irresistible really were so excellent that it made me enjoy the episode, though I'm the first to admit that Lucius was a creepy man.
I'm not a big fan of humorous episodes, but can't deny I did enjoy much of this, if I looked at it as light-hearted entertainment, and that, I think from reading Martin Wood's words, is what Irresisitble was intended to be.

Rachel500
November 4th, 2006, 04:48 AM
Well that is one issue where I do have to adamantly disagree with you. The episode in no way condones what Lucius did or encourages the idea that it is ok to drug people - for any reason. I thought the entire episode made it very clear that Lucius using this drug was a bad thing - the scene in the jail cell with Sheppard and Lucius in particular was really quite dark and serious and brought out the very clear message that what this man was doing was wrong.

I have to agree with Martin Wood's comments on the episode as this was and still is my opinion on it. It was intended to be a light-hearted episode and not some deep social commentary. It is perhaps unfortunate that the plot involved even tangentially issues that are, of course, extremely personal for some people and which have coloured their view of the episode. I feel the problem perhaps though stems more from the lack of resolution... in that many people feel that Lucius should have been harshly punished for his actions. What we have to accept however is that this is family-oriented TV and you simply cannot have it even stated (never mind shown) that a character is e.g. put to death (as had been suggested by some people) by his people because of his crimes.

I agree that Lucius isn't shown as a sympathetic character nor are his actions condoned in anyway but neither are his actions explicitly punished beyond negating his ability to use the potion on anyone again. I agree had the punishment of Lucius been harsher (and there were ways of doing this without his being executed - certainly ways of doing this without simply leaving it as a joke that divorce was in his future) I certainly might have felt the story was more balanced.

But personally for me, and I did state it was my opinion, I do think TV has a moral obligation not to show stories where certain crime is portrayed in something where the overall intent is light-hearted fun (and if I actually thought SGA was a family-targeted show I would feel this even more strongly than I do). When something like this is shown and concerns are dismissed by the people who produced it on the basis of 'well it wasn't intended to be anything other than lighthearted fun', they are missing the point that some people are concerned for that very fact - that the crime of drugging people is being used as nothing other than a plot complication to have some lighthearted fun. I don't think it shows much sensitivity for victims who have been through that very scenario and by producing a story where the audience is being invited to laugh at people who are drugged against their will (and, explicitly in the case of his wives, raped), some people may take this as a message that it's OK to do this. Not everyone. Certainly not the vast majority of the intelligent audience but even if it was only one person who came away from the show thinking that, it's one too many.

Do I think TPTB intended for anyone to come away thinking that? No. Do I think they showed a lack of responsibility in allowing this to make it to the screen? Yes. Will I stop watching? No. But I do hope that some of the feedback from Irresistible will mean they think through their stories more - there were ways of going with the original idea that would have allowed them to have had simple light-hearted fun without a part of the story being intentionally drugging people against their will.

obsessed1
November 4th, 2006, 04:52 AM
Well that is one issue where I do have to adamantly disagree with you. The episode in no way condones what Lucius did or encourages the idea that it is ok to drug people - for any reason. I thought the entire episode made it very clear that Lucius using this drug was a bad thing - the scene in the jail cell with Sheppard and Lucius in particular was really quite dark and serious and brought out the very clear message that what this man was doing was wrong.

I have to agree with Martin Wood's comments on the episode as this was and still is my opinion on it. It was intended to be a light-hearted episode and not some deep social commentary. It is perhaps unfortunate that the plot involved even tangentially issues that are, of course, extremely personal for some people and which have coloured their view of the episode. I feel the problem perhaps though stems more from the lack of resolution... in that many people feel that Lucius should have been harshly punished for his actions. What we have to accept however is that this is family-oriented TV and you simply cannot have it even stated (never mind shown) that a character is e.g. put to death (as had been suggested by some people) by his people because of his crimes.
Agree with you 100 per cent Ali :D

obsessed1
November 4th, 2006, 05:07 AM
You can please Some of the People Some of the Time... But you can't please all of the people all of the time!

A small minority of people will always have an issue with some element of a programme/episode, whether it be religious, a character decision, something which is meant to be funny isnt....etc.

~Benjamin~
November 4th, 2006, 05:58 AM
i liked this episode , i think the moments with shep and mckay were good , :sheppardanime31: :mckayanime22:

so im going to give this one a 8/10 :mckayanime03: :sheppard28: mainly for the shep and mckay moments

Elinor
November 4th, 2006, 06:50 AM
Ditto. The other aspects of it didn't occur to me until I read them here, to be honest.

Same for me to!

Personally, I enjoyed this one. It obviously seems it's always going to be a controversial episode. I just the love the character scenes that are scattered about the 45 minutes...I loved Shep in charge and having to solve the problem on his own...until he sorted Carson out anyway!

'Buck up Carson'...love that line!!

:)

Trialia
November 4th, 2006, 06:57 AM
I have to say, Rachel's pretty much said what I have thought of this episode all along.

Whether it was intended to be light-hearted or not, "Irresistible" was irresponsible. Not only that, but from the viewpoint of someone who HAS been in a similar situation, it was insulting. I realise not everyone sees it the same way I do; in fact, I'm glad that they don't, and if you can enjoy the episode and not come away from it believing that drug rape is okay, then fine. Enjoy it. But I can't, and I never will.

ToasterOnFire
November 4th, 2006, 08:51 AM
The main point I am trying to make is the fact that this is, in the majority of people's minds, an amazing episode
This is a fact? And how was this determined?


Martin's words fell flat for me. If they wanted to write a humorous ep and portray Lucius as a creepy guy there are plenty of other ways to do so without the undertones of him forcing women. As it stands, TPTB decided to leave in statements where the wives would never have married/been interested in Lucius without the drug. I don't think what TPTB did was intentional in any way, but I do think it smacks of lack of internal critique.

Even without the date rape element I didn't find this ep all that funny and having the team acts OOC is tired and overdone on this series.

Rootortoise
November 4th, 2006, 11:31 AM
Thanks for that Linzi - I took the ep the way Martin Wood described it. It was a very funny light hearted episode and I have watched it probably as much as Common Ground - thats how much I liked it. Its possible to apply ones own personal experiences to many things and to look deeper into the meaning behind a story. But I just took it on face value and enjoyed it immensely.
yep thanks LINZI!! interesting to see what MW had to say about it, and for the fans who took it at face value (as i did) and saw it for the comedic episode it was meant to be, did enjoy it!!!!



I felt that, through Sheppard, we were meant to see that the writer definitely didn't approve of Lucius' actions, and that, Sheppard, as the moral voice here, thought Lucius was pretty repulsive.

yep, and i thought shep's scenes in the ep were excellent!! as a sheppard fan, i loved how shep was portrayed in this ep, it really has some great character moments for him!!



A small minority of people will always have an issue with some element of a programme/episode, whether it be religious, a character decision, something which is meant to be funny isnt....etc.
yes exactly. mckay and mrs miller comes to mind.
i will just say that i still love this episode and it will continue to remain a favourite.

Madeleine
November 6th, 2006, 04:36 AM
I agree that Lucius isn't shown as a sympathetic character nor are his actions condoned in anyway but neither are his actions explicitly punished beyond negating his ability to use the potion on anyone again.

I don't think it needs to be explicit; for anyone to whom it occurs that Lucius has used drugs to get women into his bed it'll also occur to them that as soon as he gets home Lucius will be treated pretty much as he deserved to be treated by those whom he most wronged.

I thought it was a fun episode. It was made good by the sheer enthusiasm of the main cast. Particular praise is due to Tori, David, Rachel and especially Jason.

Trialia
November 6th, 2006, 07:09 AM
I don't think it needs to be explicit; for anyone to whom it occurs that Lucius has used drugs to get women into his bed it'll also occur to them that as soon as he gets home Lucius will be treated pretty much as he deserved to be treated by those whom he most wronged.

That didn't make the episode any less sickening in itself and it doesn't help that we know the character will be returning in a later episode. Obviously they didn't do enough for what he did.

Alipeeps
November 6th, 2006, 07:49 AM
That didn't make the episode any less sickening in itself and it doesn't help that we know the character will be returning in a later episode. Obviously they didn't do enough for what he did.

He was handed back over to his own people for them to mete out whatever justice they felt appropriate. As for him returning in a later episode...

[spoilers for Irresponsible]
From what I've read of spoilers it sounds like he has been thrown out of his village and left to fend for himself.

That may not be punishment enough in your eyes but the SGA team rightly left it to those he had wronged to decide his punishment.

Madeleine
November 6th, 2006, 08:09 AM
That didn't make the episode any less sickening in itself

It didn't sicken me. If BSG did the same story it would be done with so much realism that we'd be made to understand the consequences, but Atlantis has always had this lighthearted silly side. It's like Blackadder; there's nothing funny about living in mud in the flanders trenches, or having your head chopped off or any of those other things that happenned, but we can laugh at it anyway cos it's so totally not played for realism.

If I do think about the people in the episode as 'real' it's truly horrible. If I had felt more realism in Atlantis in general, I'd find the ep in poor taste or worse, so I sympathise with the people who disliked it.

Trialia
November 6th, 2006, 08:11 AM
In that situation, real was real enough to make me very sick. Literally.

Linzi
November 6th, 2006, 08:16 AM
He was handed back over to his own people for them to mete out whatever justice they felt appropriate. As for him returning in a later episode...

[spoilers for Irresponsible]
From what I've read of spoilers it sounds like he has been thrown out of his village and left to fend for himself.

That may not be punishment enough in your eyes but the SGA team rightly left it to those he had wronged to decide his punishment.
Agreed. I think it was appropriate for the people he'd used and abused to dish out the punishment to Lucius. That's justice in my eyes. :)

Alipeeps
November 6th, 2006, 08:32 AM
It didn't sicken me. If BSG did the same story it would be done with so much realism that we'd be made to understand the consequences, but Atlantis has always had this lighthearted silly side. It's like Blackadder; there's nothing funny about living in mud in the flanders trenches, or having your head chopped off or any of those other things that happenned, but we can laugh at it anyway cos it's so totally not played for realism.

If I do think about the people in the episode as 'real' it's truly horrible. If I had felt more realism in Atlantis in general, I'd find the ep in poor taste or worse, so I sympathise with the people who disliked it.

Very good point. I have to agree with you there.


In that situation, real was real enough to make me very sick. Literally.

But you do admit that your reaction is extreme and is largely based on your own personal experiences which understandably colour your views of the episode. I would think, from what you have said, that any program with Richard Kind in would make you feel somewhat ill. I'm sure you would accept that the vast majority of viewers, even if they did not enjoy the episode or felt it was in poor taste, were not made physically sick by it.

lily
November 8th, 2006, 06:39 AM
I thought this might be interesting to posters in this thread.
Here are Martin Wood's thoughts on Irresistible, from an interview in the Starburst Yearbook, Issue 78:
Martin Wood:
"I know there was a concern from certain fans that Lucius is 'drugging' these people, but that's not in the spirit of the series," says the director. "This isn't about date rape or anything like that. That's not what it's purporting to be. Irresistible is meant to be fun and if you take it and make it something else by applying current social mores to it, then it gets too easy to do that with everything else.
The episode is about a guy who is completely irresistible for very selfish reasons, but certainly not nefarious ones.He doesn't do it to be a villain, and that's the story we told."

Thanks for posting this, Linzi. I agree 100% with Martin Wood. In fact the thought of date rape never occured to me while watching the epi. I was surprised when I read the comments here about this the first time I read this thread.


The episode in no way condones what Lucius did or encourages the idea that it is ok to drug people - for any reason. I thought the entire episode made it very clear that Lucius using this drug was a bad thing - the scene in the jail cell with Sheppard and Lucius in particular was really quite dark and serious and brought out the very clear message that what this man was doing was wrong.

I have to agree with Martin Wood's comments on the episode as this was and still is my opinion on it. It was intended to be a light-hearted episode and not some deep social commentary. It is perhaps unfortunate that the plot involved even tangentially issues that are, of course, extremely personal for some people and which have coloured their view of the episode.

I agree 100% with you, Ali.


I enjoyed the episode, and didn't for one minute think TPTB were commenting on date rape etc.. However, when I read people's posts, certainly those who had suffered horrifying experiences of date rape or assault, I could certainly see their points of views here.
I felt that, through Sheppard, we were meant to see that the writer definitely didn't approve of Lucius' actions, and that, Sheppard, as the moral voice here, thought Lucius was pretty repulsive.
As I've said before, some of the scenes in Irresistible really were so excellent that it made me enjoy the episode, though I'm the first to admit that Lucius was a creepy man.
I'm not a big fan of humorous episodes, but can't deny I did enjoy much of this, if I looked at it as light-hearted entertainment, and that, I think from reading Martin Wood's words, is what Irresisitble was intended to be.

Once again, I agree 100%. I'm not a big fan of comedic episodes either (I enjoyed Duet quite much, for example, but never made my fave epi list. Irresistible is in my fave list. But to be honest, 8 or 9 out of 10 episodes from season 3 are in my fave epi list :D ), but I loved this episode because it was a mix of funny and creepy moments. I think all the characters were great in the epi, but I think Shep was especially the best here, because, as you said, he was the moral voice. He was the viewer's eyes, seeing everything as we saw it. Lucius was repulsive and creepy for him and for us - the audience -, as it was meant to be.


He was handed back over to his own people for them to mete out whatever justice they felt appropriate. <snip>
That may not be punishment enough in your eyes but the SGA team rightly left it to those he had wronged to decide his punishment.

Exactly. I felt that handing him back to his own people and letting them decide the punishment was the right and best thing to do.

belistner
November 8th, 2006, 07:04 AM
worst episode i've ever seen .
what a waste of my time .

Orovingwen
November 8th, 2006, 01:12 PM
Well teh story wasn't that new and we all knwo howit was ending and teh stebs between that.. anyway what I did like was Richard Kind dunno I jsut enjoy watching him and I must say there are some nice charcter momenst and for me "squee"-moments.
Well I already wrote (in other episode thredas) that Iam so falling for Beckett again and even if he was druged he was so cute!
And I really liked Shep here (even though he has OF COURSE then a cold when peopelget druged. But I liked that he said he wasn't much around anyway so he didn't really said it wa steh cold).
But *hehe* Shep and Rodney alone on a mission and OMG Carson went through teh Gate to the Wraith! that must 've been an experience!

Matt G
November 9th, 2006, 04:13 AM
Hmmm...

1. Possible rape issue...not something that ever came to mind. However I didn't find it 'that' funny either(TPTB can't seem to do quality comedy on Atlantis) so I tended to think of it more as Hathor lite, it did provide the odd chuckle.

2. Sheppard was deffo on form here though, and I liked his Batman fandom moment with McKay.

3. I also liked the final scene at the end.

Overall, the least good S3 ep so far.

obsessed1
November 9th, 2006, 01:41 PM
worst episode i've ever seen .
what a waste of my time .
You didn't like the episode then?? :)


It didn't sicken me. If BSG did the same story it would be done with so much realism that we'd be made to understand the consequences, but Atlantis has always had this lighthearted silly side. It's like Blackadder; there's nothing funny about living in mud in the flanders trenches, or having your head chopped off or any of those other things that happenned, but we can laugh at it anyway cos it's so totally not played for realism.

If I do think about the people in the episode as 'real' it's truly horrible. If I had felt more realism in Atlantis in general, I'd find the ep in poor taste or worse, so I sympathise with the people who disliked it.

I agree with you 100 per cent here. Well said :D

obsessed1
November 9th, 2006, 01:45 PM
Also in regards to Lucius' punishment. Sheppard et al didnt really have the right to punish him if you think about it and it should be up to the people he had wronged (Long term) who should get to punish him. After all he would be living on that planet, he would have to suffer becoming incredibly unpopular, being cast out of society and loosing his carefully cultivated life. For someone like Lucius I would suspect that that would be the worst kind of punishment for him. Losing everything, being the lonely 'baker' again.

Now....I think that makes sense :D

Trialia
November 9th, 2006, 02:41 PM
The punishment still wasn't sufficient, considering that they're bringing the character back!

Sorry it's taken me so long to reply, my DSL decided to drop out on me for three days. *growls at her ISP*

Right. Must make one thing clear - it really isn't that the part was acted by Richard Kind that I had an issue with. It didn't help, but I've seen him in other things without a problem. What it was, mostly - and this thread is reinforcing it! - was not only the flashbacks and the nightmares and the physical effect that this episode had on me, but, the fact that so many people are finding it oh-so-funny... without thinking about what the darker issues of the episode, what effects those might have on the people involved... well...

When what happened to me... happened... I told my father. And he laughed at me. "Irresistible"? Makes me feel violated and betrayed and belittled all over again.

PG15
November 9th, 2006, 07:59 PM
Well, I hope you aren't offended, but when I watch an episode, I want to be entertained, and thinking about those who might get upset about the episode really doesn't help in the entertainment department.

Yeah, I'm selfish, but who isn't?

Shep'sSocks
November 10th, 2006, 01:11 AM
I found the episode dark and disturbing. I didn't find it funny. However, I agree that it's up to the people he wronged to punish Lucius. The Atlantis team punished him by taking him back there for justice. I know people found it funny but considering the undertones I wonder really if we were meant to find it funny at all.

Willow'sCat
November 10th, 2006, 12:09 PM
Well, I hope you aren't offended, but when I watch an episode, I want to be entertained, and thinking about those who might get upset about the episode really doesn't help in the entertainment department. I can watch it and did for the pure entertainment of it especially the McKay/Sheppard moments and the Sheppard/Beckett moment in the PJ. But I can't just check my brain at the door when it comes to darker untones of the episode. I just hope the second part to this story will have a little more of a serious take on this... I don't think I can stand more frivolous stupidity from these people. :rolleyes:

Still one of the worst episodes yet. But not as bad as The Tower *nothing is as bad as The Tower* :P :D

Linzi
November 11th, 2006, 12:45 AM
Well, I hope you aren't offended, but when I watch an episode, I want to be entertained, and thinking about those who might get upset about the episode really doesn't help in the entertainment department.

Yeah, I'm selfish, but who isn't?
You're not selfish. The show is made to entertain people. You don't need to apologise for enjoying it! Everybody sees episodes and interprets them differently. My family can't stand Irresistible, not because of any dark issues, they just thought it was boring and poor, and that Lucius was annoying. I liked it - especially the Shep/McKay scenes and the Carson PJ scene. I certainly don't feel the need to apologise for enjoying what TPTB have said was intended to be a light-hearted episode.
I can understand why some didn't enjoy it, especially if it evokes painful memories, but that's an experience that's personal to them, not me, and while I do have sympathy, I just didn't feel the episode was anything other than an entertaining piece of TV, with dark undertones for sure, but it was not intended to be taken seriously, and I don't take it as such :)

Trialia
November 11th, 2006, 12:49 AM
it was not intended to be taken seriously

That is a main point of why it upset me so much. Sexual assault isn't something that should be treated so damn lightly.

But eh. Each to their own.

Shep'sSocks
November 11th, 2006, 03:20 AM
That is a main point of why it upset me so much. Sexual assault isn't something that should be treated so damn lightly.

But eh. Each to their own.

I don't think it was treated lightly. It was creepy. The comedic stance taken was supposed to highlight the creepiness of it.

Trialia
November 11th, 2006, 03:23 AM
I don't think it was treated lightly. It was creepy. The comedic stance taken was supposed to highlight the creepiness of it.
Yet one of the writers said it was intended as a light-hearted episode.

Shep'sSocks
November 11th, 2006, 03:24 AM
Yet one of the writers said it was intended as a light-hearted episode.

The writer of the episode?

anaM
November 11th, 2006, 03:26 AM
I am one of those who really enjoyed Irresistible, not because it was lighthearted and funny but because behind this light facade it was creepy and frightening, IMO anyway. The episode started as happy and sunny with only some hints of strangeness and then got gloomy and dark. I think the way the defenses of atlantis fell infront of one sneaky individual was given in a clever way and the danger of the situation was apparent behind all the funny stuff.

Trialia
November 11th, 2006, 03:27 AM
The writer of the episode?
Mhm. Take a look back through the thread, there's a quote in there somewhere, but I forget exactly who it was said it. Carl Binder, I think.

Ana - that take I do appreciate. I can understand how someone could see it that way, it's the amusement I don't comprehend.

Shep'sSocks
November 11th, 2006, 03:33 AM
Mhm. Take a look back through the thread, there's a quote in there somewhere, but I forget exactly who it was said it. Carl Binder, I think.

I think it was Martin Gero who said it not Carl Binder. Carl writes good creepy.

Trialia
November 11th, 2006, 03:37 AM
I think it was Martin Gero who said it not Carl Binder. Carl writes good creepy.
Yeah, that's what I thought, I don't know why it would be him. Either way, it was one of the people who participated in orchestrating this episode...

Linzi
November 11th, 2006, 08:30 AM
I think it was Martin Gero who said it not Carl Binder. Carl writes good creepy.
Nope. Martin Wood talked about it in a recent magazine interview. If you go back to post 364, two pages back, the extract from Martin's interivew concerning Irresistible is there. (Martin directed the episode.)

Shep'sSocks
November 11th, 2006, 04:36 PM
Yeah, that's what I thought, I don't know why it would be him. Either way, it was one of the people who participated in orchestrating this episode...

Do you think it was done deliberately to upset those who have been raped?

Trialia
November 11th, 2006, 04:41 PM
Do you think it was done deliberately to upset those who have been raped?
No, I don't. But I do think it wasn't vetted well enough before they let it get filmed.

Shep'sSocks
November 11th, 2006, 07:36 PM
No, I don't. But I do think it wasn't vetted well enough before they let it get filmed.

Vetted by whom? The producers? Women? Rape victims?

Linzi
November 12th, 2006, 04:01 AM
Vetted by whom? The producers? Women? Rape victims?
Lol! The Pope? (Only kidding!)
It shouldn't have been vetted by anyone, IMO. There are strict boundaries in place as far as censorship goes on the SciFi channel as it is. To not show this episode because some feel it is social commentary on date rape is ridiculous and curtailing artistic freedom. If a person doesn't like the content - don't watch, by all means, complain and moan as well, just as if you like it - rave about it. However, I always become concerned when people start suggesting things need vetting in case somebody is upset, otherwise we wouldn't be watching anything on screen, as everybody dislikes different things. Also, I want to see the version the writers and directors want us to see, not a politically correct version of a show, just in case somebody somewhere is offended. What kind of a show would that be? If it affected me in a way that made me feel physically ill, I'd have turned it off immediately and not watched it all.
The episode is NOT about rape - TPTB have clearly stated this. Though I have the greatest sympathy for anyone who has experienced such an horrendous event, that was not what this episode was about, nor was is supposed to be.
It was just meant to be entertainment. Besides if Lucius was a real date rapist, he'd hardly have married his victims, would he? He'd just have had sex with the women and left them, because I've never heard of a date rapist actually wanting a relationship with a woman, and interacting with her after he'd raped her without her consent or knowledge. So, this is a very grey area, open to the individual's own interpretation of the situation.

Easter Lily
November 12th, 2006, 05:24 AM
Lol! The Pope? (Only kidding!)
It shouldn't have been vetted by anyone, IMO. There are strict boundaries in place as far as censorship goes on the SciFi channel as it is. To not show this episode because some feel it is social commentary on date rape is ridiculous and curtailing artistic freedom. If a person doesn't like the content - don't watch, by all means, complain and moan as well, just as if you like it - rave about it. However, I always become concerned when people start suggesting things need vetting in case somebody is upset, otherwise we wouldn't be watching anything on screen, as everybody dislikes different things. Also, I want to see the version the writers and directors want us to see, not a politically correct version of a show, just in case somebody somewhere is offended. What kind of a show would that be? If it affected me in a way that made me feel physically ill, I'd have turned it off immediately and not watched it all.
Censorship is a tricky issue... Realistically, it can never be employed to please all manner of sensibilities.
I don't expect TPTB to write things that'll please me all of the time (not even in my favourite shows) but if the enjoyable outweigh the dull/pointless, I'll leave it be. If not, there's still something called the "off" button.
My feeling about Stargate as a whole is that it is lightweight scifi... half the time it's mocking the genre. I don't think it's intention ever is to shock...

Still no one can ever predict how people will react to something, regardless of how many female or male writers are involved.

obsessed1
November 12th, 2006, 08:40 AM
Yeah, that's what I thought, I don't know why it would be him. Either way, it was one of the people who participated in orchestrating this episode...

I'm certain that it was not the writers intention to make fun of/or play down the issue of rape. The use of the word 'orchestrate' insinuates that you believe otherwise and i'm sure thats not the case.


Lol! The Pope? (Only kidding!)
It shouldn't have been vetted by anyone, IMO. There are strict boundaries in place as far as censorship goes on the SciFi channel as it is. To not show this episode because some feel it is social commentary on date rape is ridiculous and curtailing artistic freedom. If a person doesn't like the content - don't watch, by all means, complain and moan as well, just as if you like it - rave about it. However, I always become concerned when people start suggesting things need vetting in case somebody is upset, otherwise we wouldn't be watching anything on screen, as everybody dislikes different things. Also, I want to see the version the writers and directors want us to see, not a politically correct version of a show, just in case somebody somewhere is offended. What kind of a show would that be? If it affected me in a way that made me feel physically ill, I'd have turned it off immediately and not watched it all.
The episode is NOT about rape - TPTB have clearly stated this. Though I have the greatest sympathy for anyone who has experienced such an horrendous event, that was not what this episode was about, nor was is supposed to be.
It was just meant to be entertainment. Besides if Lucius was a real date rapist, he'd hardly have married his victims, would he? He'd just have had sex with the women and left them, because I've never heard of a date rapist actually wanting a relationship with a woman, and interacting with her after he'd raped her without her consent or knowledge. So, this is a very grey area, open to the individual's own interpretation of the situation.

incredibly good points Linzi and thats so true. If you don't like something, then switch off and don't watch it. Unfortunately, you cant tread on eggshells around people who have had bad experiences and i'm sure we'll all be coloured by our experiences at one point or another and be outraged by what we see on television.
My nan had a long and harrowing and incredibly upsetting battle with alzheimers, but I don't complain about television shows trivilaising dementia (Which they do a lot) or portraying the disease incorrectly/correctly because it might have upset my sensibilities. No, I would and have simply switched the channel.

Linzi
November 12th, 2006, 09:58 AM
Censorship is a tricky issue... Realistically, it can never be employed to please all manner of sensibilities.
I don't expect TPTB to write things that'll please me all of the time (not even in my favourite shows) but if the enjoyable outweigh the dull/pointless, I'll leave it be. If not, there's still something called the "off" button.
My feeling about Stargate as a whole is that it is lightweight scifi... half the time it's mocking the genre. I don't think it's intention ever is to shock...

Still no one can ever predict how people will react to something, regardless of how many female or male writers are involved.
I agree. I really think sometimes we fans read too much into things! :)

beale947
November 12th, 2006, 10:53 AM
No, I don't. But I do think it wasn't vetted well enough before they let it get filmed.


Here's a question. You have complained alot about this episode, so do you compain about lots of others, such all the ones where people get shot. I'm sure lots of people know people who have been shot or died. What about all the goa'uld episodes, where they torture SG-1. Im sure soldiers in vietnam, and Iraq, have been tortured, so are you against that aswell.
Seriously, it was mentioned for about 1 minute in it. My cousin was nearly raped his thusday, do you see me like this, no. Because I knows its a TV show.

Also they are plenty of soaps on tv, where people get raped and other stuff. Do you hate those aswell?

MissX
November 12th, 2006, 01:28 PM
Here's a question. You have complained alot about this episode, so do you compain about lots of others, such all the ones where people get shot. I'm sure lots of people know people who have been shot or died. What about all the goa'uld episodes, where they torture SG-1. Im sure soldiers in vietnam, and Iraq, have been tortured, so are you against that aswell.
Seriously, it was mentioned for about 1 minute in it. My cousin was nearly raped his thusday, do you see me like this, no. Because I knows its a TV show.

Also they are plenty of soaps on tv, where people get raped and other stuff. Do you hate those aswell?

Well said! I couldn't agree more!

Easter Lily
November 12th, 2006, 01:58 PM
I agree. I really think sometimes we fans read too much into things! :)
I think I'm the Queen of overanalysis myself. I blame six years of university doing that to me. :D
But I don't think that Stargate is that kind of show... it's far too good natured compared to something like BSG.

Here's a question. You have complained alot about this episode, so do you compain about lots of others, such all the ones where people get shot. I'm sure lots of people know people who have been shot or died. What about all the goa'uld episodes, where they torture SG-1. Im sure soldiers in vietnam, and Iraq, have been tortured, so are you against that aswell.
Seriously, it was mentioned for about 1 minute in it. My cousin was nearly raped his thusday, do you see me like this, no. Because I knows its a TV show.

Also they are plenty of soaps on tv, where people get raped and other stuff. Do you hate those aswell?

I think the issue with Irresistible is an interesting one because of the humour aspect of it. People who have been victims of rape believe that by adding so called humour into it, that it condones or some how makes rape more palatable.
Personally I didn't feel that the storyline made Lucius a sympathetic figure or what he did more acceptable because of the humour. He was to me a kind of Stargate version of Bluebeard in that it was obvious from the get go that he had something to hide. I don't think we're supposed to like Lucius and really when Sheppard sent him home, I'm sure I'm not the only one who thought that hurrah, he would be getting his comeuppence.
I came into the episode wanting to hate it because it was supposedly modelled on Hathor... well, it sounded like it in the early speculation... and well, I've never liked Hathor. But while I never liked it, I never thought of it as promoting date rape. Same thing with Irresistible (which I liked more). I'm not saying that either episodes can't be seen as an intergalactic form of date rape but to say that the TPTB is somehow condoning the notion of date rape in the context of both stories, well, I don't agree with that.

There are a lot of things that I've read and seen in the past that have, for want of a better word, annoyed me. The Da Vinci Code being one of them. But I'd rather say what annoyed me about it than ask for it to be censored because that might open the floodgates to other things that I care about getting censored in return.

obsessed1
November 12th, 2006, 02:12 PM
There are a lot of things that I've read and seen in the past that have, for want of a better word, annoyed me. The Da Vinci Code being one of them. But I'd rather say what annoyed me about it than ask for it to be censored because that might open the floodgates to other things that I care about getting censored in return.
yeah thats true. You just have to look at political correctness today, which has in some respects gone too far IMO :D

Trialia
November 13th, 2006, 05:55 AM
OK, since I wasn't around to reply before thanks to more internet problems, let me say something.

I watch Law & Order: SVU on a regular basis. I know it's fake. That show doesn't upset me. I know Atlantis isn't real either, and that doesn't usually upset me like this.

It shouldn't have been there. Like I said before... it's not a subject that should be treated so lightly. If someone's been shot and still reacts badly to gunfire, then they probably wouldn't be watching the show anyway because violence is a regular thing on Stargate. References to rape, however indirect, are not, and such things in a supposedly light-hearted episode certainly aren't common for Atlantis (or SG-1 for that matter, with the possible exception of Broca Divide and Hathor).

That's a big part of what upset me so much - I was completely blindsided by the undertones to the episode. With SVU, you expect it, you're prepared for it and they don't treat sexual assault as anything less than the serious subject it is. With Atlantis, I wasn't expecting it at all and it felt like being made fun of all over again. That's what I appreciate least in all of this.

Lauriel
November 13th, 2006, 11:51 AM
OK, since I wasn't around to reply before thanks to more internet problems, let me say something.

I watch Law & Order: SVU on a regular basis. I know it's fake. That show doesn't upset me. I know Atlantis isn't real either, and that doesn't usually upset me like this.

It shouldn't have been there. Like I said before... it's not a subject that should be treated so lightly. If someone's been shot and still reacts badly to gunfire, then they probably wouldn't be watching the show anyway because violence is a regular thing on Stargate. References to rape, however indirect, are not, and such things in a supposedly light-hearted episode certainly aren't common for Atlantis (or SG-1 for that matter, with the possible exception of Broca Divide and Hathor).

That's a big part of what upset me so much - I was completely blindsided by the undertones to the episode. With SVU, you expect it, you're prepared for it and they don't treat sexual assault as anything less than the serious subject it is. With Atlantis, I wasn't expecting it at all and it felt like being made fun of all over again. That's what I appreciate least in all of this.

With deference to your personal situation, it is a bit unrealistic to hold the writers/directors/producers etc of the show responsible for your own expectations. Just because it was unexpected does not mean it should not be there. Whilst SGA is fairly lightweight, they do like to broach some social issues, even if they do not like to examine them indepth. This is one instance of that. And as some others have already said, whilst it was a humourous episode, they did not use the humour to condone that behaviour. Quite the opposite - Richard Kind's character was revealed as creepy and definitely on the wrong side of the moral code being re-enforced.

Naonak
November 17th, 2006, 01:06 PM
Although not the best - and possibly the worst - comedy episode they've done for either show, it wasn't that bad. When it was funny, it tended to be very funny. Most of the funny bits came from Rodney and Shep (and Beckett), rather than Lucius though.
I don't think they were making a joke of, or condoning, rape. It didn't seem to be a massive part of the episode. There's plenty of other shows that have done similar stories, too. (Buffy's "Him", for example)

But the question remains... How does he make his hair go like that?

beale947
November 24th, 2006, 04:39 AM
OK, since I wasn't around to reply before thanks to more internet problems, let me say something.

I watch Law & Order: SVU on a regular basis. I know it's fake. That show doesn't upset me. I know Atlantis isn't real either, and that doesn't usually upset me like this.

It shouldn't have been there. Like I said before... it's not a subject that should be treated so lightly. If someone's been shot and still reacts badly to gunfire, then they probably wouldn't be watching the show anyway because violence is a regular thing on Stargate. References to rape, however indirect, are not, and such things in a supposedly light-hearted episode certainly aren't common for Atlantis (or SG-1 for that matter, with the possible exception of Broca Divide and Hathor).

That's a big part of what upset me so much - I was completely blindsided by the undertones to the episode. With SVU, you expect it, you're prepared for it and they don't treat sexual assault as anything less than the serious subject it is. With Atlantis, I wasn't expecting it at all and it felt like being made fun of all over again. That's what I appreciate least in all of this.


You are one person. The world doesn't revolve around you and what you think. Its been shown, so deal with it. In fact the part you are compaining about is 1 minute worth of show time. It is not worth compaining about.

Also the way you are describing being shot is appauling. Being shot is just the same as being raped, in that they are both serious things. But obviously in your world, if it happened to you then everybody elses experiences are moot

Trialia
November 24th, 2006, 04:43 AM
Beale, open your eyes. I'm not just doing this for me. I'm not the only person who was upset by this episode, and I would feel I'd betrayed all the others if I didn't stand up and say something about it.

And I do not see what you think is so appalling about how I'm referring to being shot. I didn't say it was any less upsetting or any less a violation - I said that it's more of a regularly-featured subject on the show and so people would know to expect it. Rape isn't.

Trialia
January 1st, 2007, 04:10 PM
Oragahn -- I'm a fan of Red Dwarf, but I hated "Irresistible" with a passion.

Mister Oragahn
January 1st, 2007, 06:03 PM
Oragahn -- I'm a fan of Red Dwarf, but I hated "Irresistible" with a passion.

Oh, Red Dwarf itself is a nice show, but my point is that there's a place for Red Dwarf, and one for Stargate.

I simply can't care about the show anymore, if anytime there's some sort of serious plot, no matter how light hearted or dark it turns out to be, and pledges for credibility, so that I should believe in it and think I'm actually watching a fabulous tale, a formidable story, something the writers care about and treat seriously, it's going to be followed by some utter and inadmissible crap asswrapped by two years old weasels, a level of writing so many people seem to be found of.

Suspension of disbelief has its limits. Puke level hello!

Now it's gone so far that it seems like people mock you if you ever dare claim that that the writers should treat the show seriously. And you hear crap like "hey, it's just a show, don't you know that?"

Mh, probably like all films I watch which are, oh well... just films you know, yet their writers and directors seem to believe they have to be treated seriously in order to be credible. And no one seems to mock them for that.

So what's wrong with those SG fanboys out there?

Of course, there are those comedy films and shows that I enjoy a lot, but I'm naive enough to believe that Stargate was not intended to be any of those.

Let's say it, is Stargate supposed to be serious like the Stargate film and Star Trek, or be dead funny as Galaxy Quest?

Just tell me, because right now I think Stargate is just a freaking joke! :cool:
And, again, that's treading on the serious thread that was active a few weeks ago in the General forum, but the whole crux is there.

Between McKay's one-man shows - probably because, in fact, he's one of the few good actors onboard - and the hihi haha hoho lol rofl episodes like Duet and Irresistible, I just don't care at all about what happens to the characters.

Not that SGA's character writing and cast choice were stellar to boot, but it's clearly beyond any hope.
Seeing people gladly chant and praise the character development and interactions of Irresistible as what makes it one of the best episodes of all times is just all more saddening.
But it should help realize how the show is on the wrong slope.

It's quite clear, targets have shifted, and it's time to leave the place for that new audience.

I'll still keep a grain of hope, and keep an eye on the future SG-1 TV movies (though the premises don't make me wiggle at all, safe eventually for some extra Ori curbstomp). However, most of my attention is geared towards one single man right now. One person who's back in the franchise, after more than 12 years.

lissa1000
January 1st, 2007, 07:25 PM
I simply can't care about the show anymore, if anytime there's some sort of serious plot, no matter how light hearted or dark it turns out to be, and pledges for credibility, so that I should believe in it and think I'm actually watching a fabulous tale, a formidable story, something the writers care about and treat seriously, it's going to be followed by some utter and inadmissible crap asswrapped by two years old weasels, a level of writing so many people seem to be found of.

That is exactly my problem with the show. They do have really good episodes, but the bad episodes are embarrassingly bad. I have a hard time taking the show seriously after seeing episodes like Irresistible. These episodes just don't fit in Stargate.

obsessed1
January 3rd, 2007, 12:54 PM
That is exactly my problem with the show. They do have really good episodes, but the bad episodes are embarrassingly bad. I have a hard time taking the show seriously after seeing episodes like Irresistible. These episodes just don't fit in Stargate.
Thats true. The good episodes are really really good but the bad ones........*shakes head* they make you want to cry because the episodes always have such great potential that just doenst seem to be met. I actually loved this episode but I have a bone to pick with other episopdes that havent lived up to expectations so I know where you're coming from in that regard.

Sweetsong
January 9th, 2007, 04:15 PM
I never noticed before that Lucius Lavin's portrayer Richard Kind also played Dr. Gary Meyers in the original Stargate movie. Perhaps the reason he got not one but 2 appeareances on the show in season 3 is due to his history with the Stargate series.

Yes I don't really buy that either, but I was rewatching the original Stargate just recently, and his banter with James Spader, Daniel Jackson's portrayer over the translation of the ancient eqyption writing about the Stargate was pretty funny.

BTW, can anyone link me a discussion thread from here comparing the differences between the orginal Stargate movie and the series? Thanks in advance.

Kalyse
January 9th, 2007, 07:06 PM
Im just checking out this thread to make sure everyone else agreed. Im a little bewilderd that not everyone has the same opinion. Maybe you need to watch it again, but i wouldnt like to inflict that episode on anyone... not even once.

This is the worst episode from all series accross SG and SGA. It was awful. It just killed my enthusiasm to watch the rest of the episodes.

obsessed1
January 14th, 2007, 04:55 AM
Im just checking out this thread to make sure everyone else agreed. Im a little bewilderd that not everyone has the same opinion. Maybe you need to watch it again, but i wouldnt like to inflict that episode on anyone... not even once.

This is the worst episode from all series accross SG and SGA. It was awful. It just killed my enthusiasm to watch the rest of the episodes.
We're not clones. Of course we dont have the same opinion. I loved iressistable....i've 'inflicted' that ep on myself a few times and I still enjoy it, but there obviously must be soething wrong with me if I dont have the same opinion with you :D

Domesticated Equine
January 14th, 2007, 06:22 PM
Wow. This was probably the worst TV episode I have ever seen. The episode was boring, predicatable and not funny when it was meant to be, but what makes it truly atrocious and insulting to me as a viewer is the way it treated the rape issue.

I don't see how anyone can dispute the fact that Lucius committed rape in this episode. That some people do so, I find appalling and a sad reflection on our society. Lucius is rapist, and that is not a matter of opinion.

I don't mind seeing stories about rape on TV. In fact, I think the perfect comparison (which has been brought up) is to the Buffy episode "Dead Things" where three loser nerds use a device to control a woman and make her their sex slave. The huge difference is that Stargate Atlantis has the rape(s) in a humorous episode, let's the rapist get away with essentially no punishment and even tries to redeem the rapist later on (Irresponsible). In contrast, in Buffy the situation is identified as rape, the whole season takes a darker turn after this, and the villains who were previously just playing evil have suddenly crossed a line and become impossible to symphatize with (Warren). If you want to approach an issue such as rape, you better do it well and make sure the actions have consequences.

As for saying that this episode wasn't meant to be taken seriously, I agree with Trialia, Rachel500 and whoever has said this: That's precisely the problem. Like it or not, the writers decided to bring rape into the episode and they made it very hard to miss with all those "sex with six wives at the same time" comments. Whether they did this out of incompetence or malignantly is beside the point, the net result is that this episode belittles (date) rape. This is not a message TV programs should be sending since there are always viewers out there who will be influenced by this.

For the record, I'm a 25-year-old male and no one I know of has been a victim of a rape. This is not a pet peeve for me, but I was still bothered enough by this episode to comment on this thread.

Dusk
January 17th, 2007, 01:36 AM
Here, here! This guy shoulda been tossed off Weir's balcony or, alternatively, sent to the planet where the 'erb and the Wraith were. What he did was horrible, surely the population would have ripped into him upon his return. What a shame we couldn't live the fantasy in our minds, knowing that the character would return later in the season.

huntress
January 28th, 2007, 01:30 PM
...and guess what this episode got a sequel too be cause it was such a great episode. Exactly who told the PTBs that this was a great episode. It is not the worst TV episode I have seen (That would be "Spock's Brain" or "Pattern of Force") but it was the worst SGA has ever dished us out.

Uber
January 28th, 2007, 03:12 PM
...and guess what this episode got a sequel too be cause it was such a great episode. Exactly who told the PTBs that this was a great episode. It is not the worst TV episode I have seen (That would be "Spock's Brain" or "Pattern of Force") but it was the worst SGA has ever dished us out.Hold that thought. I don't think you've seen Irredeemable ... err ... Irresponsible yet. ;)

Trialia
January 28th, 2007, 03:14 PM
Hold that thought. I don't think you've seen Irredeemable ... err ... Irresponsible yet. ;)
"Irresponsible" wasn't as irredeemable as this one. Not by far. It was crap, but it wasn't vomit-inducing.

Uber
January 28th, 2007, 03:19 PM
"Irresponsible" wasn't as irredeemable as this one. Not by far. It was crap, but it wasn't vomit-inducing.I think they were both just that bad but I think I hated Irresponsible more because...

IRRESPONSIBLE SPOILERS:they offed my favorite Atlantis bad guy and did it in such a horribly cheesy way.

huntress
January 28th, 2007, 03:23 PM
Hold that thought. I don't think you've seen Irredeemable ... err ... Irresponsible yet. ;)

I did and it was bad. I really don't know which of the two was worse. They are both terrible.

Trialia
January 28th, 2007, 03:48 PM
I think they were both just that bad but I think I hated Irresponsible more because...

IRRESPONSIBLE SPOILERS:they offed my favorite Atlantis bad guy and did it in such a horribly cheesy way.
There is that, but "Irresponsible" didn't make me ill the way "Irresistible" did, it was just a really crappy episode. :P

Arga
June 1st, 2007, 05:04 PM
It was weird to see this actor come back to Stargate...

after remembering him in the original movie..

http://ednys.free.fr/stargate/sgm11.jpg
http://ednys.free.fr/stargate/sgm12.jpg

Daniel wouldn't have questioned his translation if he had used the magic potion!

http://ednys.free.fr/stargate/sga3x03-1.jpg


On another subject in that episode : Linguistics..

There is something that always annoys me; it's when writers stop being aware that they have aliens speaking, not only Earth english speaking humans.. I refuse to believe an alien would speak naturally english, while on Earth itself, some people talk in another language. So there must be a translation going on like a universal translator or similar (don't ask me how)...
So, when Lucious says to Weir : "Beautiful and brilliant. The two Bs." I can't stand it.. I wonder what sentence he said in his original language, to have the translation in english be so conveniantly poetic... I mean, come on! the 2 B's!! I know it's not a serious episode, and most viewers don't care, but it just bugs me.

lantian_jackson
June 5th, 2007, 01:46 PM
Not a bad episode. I laughed a lot while watching it. Richard Kind always seem to play the part of a character that provides comic relief.
"Like, how do you get your hair to grow like that?"
--Lucius
Very funny line
and also
"No more secret longings for his touch?"
--Sheppard
Overall this was acually one of my favorite episodes so far and yes I have seen "Irresponsible"

garhkal
June 5th, 2007, 05:12 PM
That was kind of messed up that they used a guy from the initial movie for him...

fumblesmcstupid
July 11th, 2007, 11:06 PM
I guess it's okay to hold your friend against a wall untill a drug effects his system, shoot your friend and throw him in the brig, send your team mates to a WRAITH infested world to get more of said drug. Watch as every one you know act like complete ASSES to impress a piece of S**t like this stupid F**K.

Lucious is a PRICK he isn't funny, or cute. He is a LOSER!!!
The ONLY way he can get people to like him is to drug them! WHAT A FUNNY GUY.

Rodney is my Favorite character and they SHAMED him by using this drug on his best friend Sheppard.

But hey it's not rape it is a fun episode!

MechaThor
September 1st, 2007, 06:00 AM
I liked this episode! After the BIG story points and action from the last few episodes its Gd to have a nice and fun episode!

I liked the character of Lucious, Like the guy above said his a looser! But his intresting because his this looser who has a whole village like him beceuse of this herb! And he has that dark side which appears because of it! Which I like. His not just a 2D "funny guy" for the "funny episode" of the series! Instead he actually has two diffrent sides to him and he can grow as a character!

As far as all the talk about Rape, I don't see it as that. His not beating them up and forcing them down! and yes its only because of the drug that makes them do it but still! Theres an area of free choice still remaining! Its just like men with money and power:
-"do you want to be my wife?"
-"NO TRAMP"
-"What if i got you a new car?"
-"Ok then... lover!"

Its diffrent (only just) but diffrent. Plus the epsiode is for fun! And i am sure the writers where not like "in the next episode lets have a guy drug Weir then rape her?" No they did not!
I understand were the idea comes from but i don't see it as that!

Overall as i siad b4 its a fun episode which i enjoy and do find funny!
:beckett:She turned into that lovly girl?
Lucious: Erm no... the guy behind

Trek_Girl42
September 20th, 2007, 12:22 AM
Weir should have jailed Luscious the moment she recovered. How can what he did not be construed as rape? Those women on the planet were victims and they pretty much trivialised it all with a joke about divorce! Seriously? I should certainly hope he'd be punished by law on his own planet. Weir didn't seem remotely angry enough. He had her ready to become his seventh wife fer cryin' out loud!

Sad thing is, many of the scenes without Lucious were quite humerous ("fly, Lucious, fly" had me in giggles), so I enjoyed bits of the episode, but wow.....what were the writers thinking?

This is a prime example of why there needs to be a woman on the Atlantis writing staff. :rolleyes:

MmmmMcKAy
September 20th, 2007, 06:05 AM
I agree, Trek Girl, that some of the episode was funny. But Lucious should have been shot! It's like he's using a date rape drug...except it's an everybody loves me and wants to sleep with me and be my wife drug. Without it, nobody can stand him.

Trek_Girl42
September 20th, 2007, 10:43 AM
I agree, Trek Girl, that some of the episode was funny. But Lucious should have been shot! It's like he's using a date rape drug...except it's an everybody loves me and wants to sleep with me and be my wife drug. Without it, nobody can stand him.
And no one was truely angry with him to the extent as they should have been afterwards! It's like none of the characters considered it! It makes the characters look stupid, and the writers even worse. The thing is, they could have kept pretty much the identical story- even kept the humour, if at the end of the episode they had adressed this in a more serious tone, and that would have been acceptable. The episode still wouldn't have been very good, but it certainly wouldn't have been as hated.

The part at the end where Rodney kept some of the herb, there should have been some more serious relization on his part for what it was, rather than just the jokes.

apollonia
September 21st, 2007, 06:44 AM
I just saw it yesterday and found this episode quite entertaining (Carson acting all gay, everyone except Sheppard all OOC), though I do agree the rape thing is rather icky and should've been dealt with differently.
I don't care what the intent is, rape in any way is just not cool and treating it this lightly bothers me.

Still, sending Lucius back to his planet and let the people he's violated the most deal with him seemed like a good idea to me. I must mention, however, I've not yet seen the follow-up to this (Irreparable? Irresponsible? Irrationally?) and what I've read here makes me think he didn't get dealt with in a suitable way.

However, I do expect to be able to watch this episode again and enjoy at least the fun parts of it. It will require ignoring some things for a bit, but I find that surprisingly (worryingly) easy.

I quite liked reading the discussion about the rape-part here. I don't agree with everyone, but I used to be less aware of how things like this can subtly perpetuate some beliefs and I used to go with the general feeling of a show and not even notice things like this (Owen with his little date-rape spray on Torchwood? I had to have that one explained to me :o) rather than question things independently as well. I guess being able to conveniently ignore the weird bits when I need to in order to still get my squee on plays a part in that.
Discussions like this help me be more aware of some less-than-obvious things and make me think more. And that's good. :)

ponycake
October 8th, 2007, 11:53 PM
Wow. This episode actually shocked me. I think if I had seen this before my love for the show was established this would have been the last episode that I would have watched.

Played as a comedy it's the tale of a mischevious scamp, which works perfectly well as long as you don't think of the women involved as being human beings.

"I am ashamed to admit that before I refused to share his bed more than once" a village woman says. But after being drugged she and others in the village are 'married' to him, the polite tv euphamism of having sex. Which of course in this context ends up being the euphamism for rape since while being drugged they are unable to give consent.

How an episode about a man drugging and raping women, and wait for it, played as a COMEDY, managed to get made I'll never know. It just goes to show that misogynism is still alive and well in Sci Fi if the writers etc did not even see that someone not being able to give consent = rape = NOT FUNNY!

Mattathias2.0
October 9th, 2007, 07:31 PM
How an episode about a man drugging and raping women, and wait for it, played as a COMEDY, managed to get made I'll never know. It just goes to show that misogynism is still alive and well in Sci Fi if the writers etc did not even see that someone not being able to give consent = rape = NOT FUNNY!

Sounds like Shakespeare if you ask me.

But I can see how it could be taken as offensive.

Trek_Girl42
October 10th, 2007, 02:28 PM
Wow. This episode actually shocked me. I think if I had seen this before my love for the show was established this would have been the last episode that I would have watched.

Played as a comedy it's the tale of a mischevious scamp, which works perfectly well as long as you don't think of the women involved as being human beings.

"I am ashamed to admit that before I refused to share his bed more than once" a village woman says. But after being drugged she and others in the village are 'married' to him, the polite tv euphamism of having sex. Which of course in this context ends up being the euphamism for rape since while being drugged they are unable to give consent.

How an episode about a man drugging and raping women, and wait for it, played as a COMEDY, managed to get made I'll never know. It just goes to show that misogynism is still alive and well in Sci Fi if the writers etc did not even see that someone not being able to give consent = rape = NOT FUNNY!
I absolutely agree- this episode was a travesty. Insulting towards women, demeaning. The idea that rape could be turned into something so.....glossed over, is just shocking. :S

ponycake
October 10th, 2007, 02:55 PM
But I can see how it could be taken as offensive.

I think that's what really annoyed me, the fact that someone can be shown as drugging someone in order to make them incapable of being able to make a choice, has sex with them, and the fact that it's rape gets swept under the carpet. As if people are somehow strange for finding it offensive or thinking that sexual assault isn't the material for the light-hearted episode they were supposedly going for (not saying that you are saying this, just that I've seen this attitude about). Or that worse yet, that some people don't even see it as sexual assault.

I can't see what he did here as any different than slipping someone a drug in to their drink and then assaulting them - you'd just think the entertainment industry would be a little bit wiser in this day and age.

Randy_Watson
November 19th, 2007, 05:20 AM
Well, at least this episode had someone from the original movie. :)

BrokenChevron
December 4th, 2007, 05:05 AM
Well, at least this episode had someone from the original movie.
Sole real redeeming quality to the episode. I simply thought it was pointless. His second episode is better.

Freekzilla
December 4th, 2007, 05:14 AM
This episode should NEVER have been made. Plain and simple. I personally am not a fan at all of the character or the actor. So for me, there was no redeeming quality to this episode whatsoever!!!

jelgate
December 4th, 2007, 09:37 AM
Sole real redeeming quality to the episode.?* I simply thought it was pointless.?* His second episode is better.Not much but it is a little better

Integrabyte
December 4th, 2007, 02:14 PM
Kicking yourself in the B***s feels better than watching this episode :P.

captain jake
December 7th, 2007, 11:15 PM
Kicking yourself in the B***s feels better than watching this episode :P.

I have to agree, this episode was horrible. Dex sucked even more then usual and Teyla was so annoying I wanted to shoot myself.

If you can avoid this episode, avoid it!

First
December 10th, 2007, 09:49 PM
When I heard about how much eveyone hates this annoying Lucius fellow I expected this episode to really suck. There are plenty of characters that really annoy me (Felger and Kinsey spring to mind with great urgency!).
After I watched this ep, I was left thinking that Lucius isn't that bad. Certainly not a favourite, but tolerable. So was the rest of the episode.

I didn't see it at the time, but some people here make a good point about the whole date rape issue, which was glossed over and not dealt with in the ep. Those villagers are very forgiving people, to merely banish him for his crimes!

Freekzilla
December 11th, 2007, 01:22 AM
This episode should have been named "Unwatchable". Sorry, but this episode just didn't work.

captain jake
December 11th, 2007, 08:17 AM
This episode should have been named "Unwatchable". Sorry, but this episode just didn't work.

Why do you say that? I thought it was watchable...

BackStageJim
May 1st, 2008, 08:04 AM
what location was this (and 313) filmed.
It appeared to be same 'tpwn' that was in SG1 where the force field kept getting smaller as the power darined and the people 'forgot' things.

Chrisisall
May 2nd, 2008, 11:37 AM
Why do you say that? I thought it was watchable...
I watched it once, thought it was mildly amusing, and then a female fan pointed out the date rape aspect, and I was all "What??" then "Ohhhh" then "Ewwwwue". IMO it was a mistake to treat it so lightly...the later hero-worship ep worked nicely, though. But I don't think I'll ever watch the whole of Irresistible ever again.

Irresistible was irresponsibleisall

pwells
September 22nd, 2008, 02:56 PM
Terrible episode for Stargate. Lucius committed multiple rapes as well as putting people in deadly situations, and all he got was a slap on the wrist. His serious conversation with the imprisoned Sheppard showed that he knew exactly what he was doing, and he was just an evil man.

Orion25
October 3rd, 2008, 07:29 AM
If the objective was to make it a fun ep well, I didn't enjoy watching it. I would probably watch an episode were an alien entity (with a joker personality) control the expedition team leading them to pull pranks against each other then somewhere in the middle of the story the twists come to surprise us.

kymeric
October 6th, 2008, 11:40 AM
I liked irresistable. Lucious made alot of sense as far as motivation. He couldnt have been treated very well by the villagers his whole life, then found an edge over them. Makes sense a social misfit would take advantage of a potion that makes everyone like him. It also fits that hed have no ethical problem with the loss of freedom of will too. Given that one wifes comment that she rudely turned him down alot before he got the potion it musta felt like a godsend to him.

Systems theory dosent use cause>effect but goes with an effect>effect circle. Its logical how his ostracization led to his immorality and eventually him being run out of town without the potion.

Im even more suprised the expedition destroyed the chemical samples, imagine if the perfume companies got ahold of it O.O

Anda
October 6th, 2008, 11:45 AM
I liked the end when John sais that he will go to clean McKay room...

Butlersgate
March 7th, 2009, 05:26 AM
this episode has gotten a lot of crap, i personally thought it was a good episode and i really can't understand why people hate it so much.

HPMom
March 29th, 2009, 07:09 PM
this episode has gotten a lot of crap, i personally thought it was a good episode and i really can't understand why people hate it so much.

I really like this episode too and there were a lot of great lines...
"Fly Lucius,fly!"
"How do you get your hair to go like that?"
"Did you just say gourds?"
"The lame can walk again. Well, some still crawl, but they crawl a lot faster than they used to. "

major davis
May 12th, 2009, 06:31 PM
this episode has gotten a lot of crap, i personally thought it was a good episode and i really can't understand why people hate it so much.

Same here. This is one OF MY ALLTIME FAVORITE SGA EPISODES. Spectacular writing and awesome acting.
9.9/10

suse
May 12th, 2009, 08:56 PM
IIRC this is the ep that had a man (purposefully) drug women into marrying/sleeping with him. What an absolutely delightful man.:mckay:

The best part about the ep?

......
.........
.............

Ya know, it wasn't the ep that was the best part. It was watching it and thinking the actors must have had a blast having their characters act... so out of character.

It took me weeks to be able to watch SGA again after this ep

0.5/10

suse

escyos
June 5th, 2009, 01:28 AM
EXCELLENT episode, dont know why people hate it

metalheart777
September 6th, 2009, 04:14 PM
I don't really want to look through 24 pages of this thread to see if anyone has already brought it up, but did anyone notice else that his name Lucius Lavin sounds pretty close to Luscious Lovin'?!? I have a sneaking suspicion that they did that on purpose.

~ mh777

Sp!der
December 21st, 2009, 09:05 AM
its an okayish episode not even close funny like "woo" but some funny lines here and there.....

ktebid
March 7th, 2010, 03:57 PM
I thought it amusing the first time I watched it. I've just started watching it again, and I think I've got to be in the right mood to watch it. I thought the actors did a good job acting OoC, and it was funny watching the gang up on Shep.

chrono trigger
March 7th, 2010, 04:00 PM
I thought it amusing the first time I watched it. I've just started watching it again, and I think I've got to be in the right mood to watch it. I thought the actors did a good job acting OoC, and it was funny watching the gang up on Shep.

i like it because i found it funny but if you see it to much i imagine the jokes start wearing thin

dolfyn
April 5th, 2010, 04:06 PM
I love this episode because it's so funny. So many great lines! I especially enjoy the performances of Paul, Tori & Joe. :)

:beckett: Paul (Carson), with his childlike wonder at Lucius' stories, & being so eager to please. And of course, his sobbing scene in the back of the Puddle Jumper is one of my favourite comedic moments in all of SGA. :D

:weir: Tori (Elizabeth), with her school girl crush-like attentiveness to Lucius, particularly the subtle touches she gives him every now & then. :o

:sheppard: Joe (Sheppard), with his reactions to all the crazy behaviour, & particularly when he realises he's outnumbered & suddenly dials back his anger. He's also great in the Puddle Jumper scene. :cool:

You can really tell that the cast had a ball doing this episode, & that really comes across onscreen.
Richard Kind was perfect to play an annoying & slimy character such as Lucius, & he totally made it work. :P
(The whole "date rape" issue never even crossed my mind until I read this thread, & I personally don't view the episode that way AT ALL.) :confused:

Irresistible is always fun to watch & is one of my favourites. :rolleyes:

Feel the love.
dolfyn.
:mckay09:

mrscopterdoc
September 3rd, 2010, 02:15 PM
I can't stand Lucious but I like this episode. Seeing everyone so 'smitten' with him is so funny, and of course at the end Sheppard going to clean Rodney's room is the best part. :P

maneth
January 6th, 2011, 12:02 PM
I hated Lucius, so slimy and yucky. The whole episode felt vaguely like something out of Star Trek. I love Trek, but particularly the first two seasons of TNG have a few episodes that left me squirming just like this one did. I only liked the ending when Beckett managed to pretend to be under the influence of the pheromones while he really had worked out the antidote.

Blizzah
May 5th, 2011, 09:07 AM
I liked the end when John sais that he will go to clean McKay room...

This was probably my favourite part as well. I enjoyed the episode and I agree with some of the other comments that it is nice to have a lighter episode afterall the drama of late. Richard Kind is really funny and he didn`t let us down with this performance.

Klenotka
May 11th, 2011, 04:59 PM
I rewatch Atlantis and I still hate this episode. More than before when I know that it gets worse.
It was fun in the first half, because there were some great team moments in the beginning and some good McKay/Sheppard scenes later. Other than that, I think that acting was really weird. I don´t want to say bad but...creepy maybe.
But Lucius is probably the most annoying character in SG universe (along with Vala´s father - but he never came back - we weren´t that lucky with Lucius).

mathpiglet
May 20th, 2011, 04:28 PM
This episode made me think that it was too bad they didn't get some of this drug and try to modify it to make the Wraith all happy and wanting to help everyone instead trying to feed on them.

Skie
May 21st, 2011, 06:56 AM
This episode made me think that it was too bad they didn't get some of this drug and try to modify it to make the Wraith all happy and wanting to help everyone instead trying to feed on them.

Since the Wraith are less than half human, I doubt it would have worked. I like the Wraith more as life-suckers anyway. :D

mathpiglet
May 22nd, 2011, 12:02 PM
But can't you imagine what fun episode it would make if it worked temporarily?

Skie
May 25th, 2011, 12:46 PM
But can't you imagine what fun episode it would make if it worked temporarily?

I don't know if I would enjoy it, probably would squirm in front of the tv because it would just be soo hilarious. But yeah, I see your point. :D

King Mayborune
July 26th, 2011, 07:07 PM
Just rewatched this episode today. Very funny! As usual, it's the funny Stargate episodes that tend to be my favorite. (Love Urgo, Window of Opportunity, Upgrades, Point of no Return, Wormhole X-treme) And I don't get all the outrage in this thread about "What? They're trying to make rape funny!?" I SO did not get that message from this episode.

Trig
May 2nd, 2012, 03:12 AM
Theres always people out there that will see the dark side in any story...

Julia Benson in there tho, looking as bright as ever..

NowIWillDestroyAbydos
August 3rd, 2012, 04:36 PM
Of the episodes this season, I thought this was the worst. Next weeks episode looks awesome.
Yep and yep

Monday, a awesome Ronon-focus episode.

Krisz
August 3rd, 2012, 04:57 PM
I think I started watching this when I bought the season 3 DVD's and thought....well, it's not repeatable here, and skipped the episode!

With the years of being on the forum it seemed to me that the general consensus was that it was possibly the worst episode of the whole franchise. Since I am watching every episode for the re-watch I honestly didn't know if I could stop cringing and wailing in disbelief (a few more of those unrepeatable sentiments) at what was unfolding on that screen enough to get through the episode.

Until now 'Urgo' was the episode I disliked the most, never to watch again. I managed to get through that for the rewatch and have to say I actually feel less irritated with that than I did with this!

Was that really Julia Benson trying to make the best of that awful role?! She was brilliant in SGU.

I'm still feeling 'ugh!!!' even as I write this, trying to forget I'd ever seen it! :(

Lythisrose
August 3rd, 2012, 08:27 PM
Joe Mallozzi's take on this episode:
http://josephmallozzi.wordpress.com/2012/08/03/august-3-2012-a-fablelous-lunch-break-phone-spinning-wormhole-riders-days-of-stargate-atlantis-past-irresistible/

IRRESISTIBLE (303)

One of the great things about working on Stargate was the freedom it gave us when it came to scripting a wide variety of episodes. For instance, the season opener, No Man’s Land, is a big, splashy visual effects-laden affair that touches on some of the major threads woven over the show’s previous seasons. The season’s second episode, Misbegotten, also touches on some of these same big arc elements in a story that is more human, character-centered and, ultimately, quite tragic. The season’s third episode, Irresponsible, switches gears in delivering a lighter, more humorous episode that presents Atlantis under threat from a most unlikely source – a seemingly affable, simple fellow named Lucius Lavin.

In playing the role of Lucius, actor Richard Kind becomes one of a handful of actors who guest-starred in both the series and the original Stargate movie (in which he played the part of an archaeologist).

Eagled-eyed viewers will also notice a familiar face among Lucius’s village admirers – namely Julia Anderson (now Julia Bensons) who would go on to play Lieutenant Vanessa James in Stargate: Universe.

Some memorable bits of dialogue:

LUCIUS: “The sick have been cured, the lame can walk again … well, some still crawl, but they crawl a lot faster than they used to.”

and

LUCIUS: “How do you get your hair to go like that?”

also

SHEPPARD: Well, what about Beckett?

McKAY: Oh, he … now, he can walk on his hands. Did you know that? Yeah, he was showing Lucius just before he left. You should have seen it. He was down on his hands …

- Which was actually a reference to Paul McGillion’s reputed background as a wrestler and his ability to, yes, walk on his hands. Ask him to show you next at his next con appearance!

And finally:

LUCIUS: Mess hall. Blue jello. Just a little bit of whipped cream.

- Yet another reference to Stargate’s famed blue jello.

I remember that we shot this episode in late April, around the time of my annual chocolate party. Richard Kind was in the office across the hall, making travel arrangements while I was in my office, making arrangements for incoming chocolate shipments. He happened by and I invited him to join us that Saturday night at my place. He ended up having a great time and, even years afterwards, would drop me an email or note about some heavenly dessert place he’d discovered (like Graeter’s in Cincinnnati, OH). Very nice guy.

Kudos to Carl Binder on the script!

Lieutenant Sparrow
August 6th, 2012, 06:28 AM
Yeah not a great ep.

It had a couple of mildly funny parts. Like Shep stunning Beckett. *Ahh crap*

But other than that I was pretty bored. I actually prefer SG-1's Urgo.

Matt G
August 13th, 2012, 03:46 PM
Midweek...another ep of Atlantis...

1. An ep I only watched for completeness sake...so cheesy.

2. Completely forgot about the date rape controversy this ep stirred up which is ironic given that since '06 I've attempted to support a few people after various kinds of abuse(though not date rape). I also nicknamed a particular scumbag my crew tangled with "Luscious" because of the effect he seemed to have on people.

3. Shep shooting Beckett was the only bit that made me smile this time around.

This ep was a bad idea.

jelgate
August 15th, 2012, 06:59 PM
This is such a great episode. To see Lucius as a great foe for the Atlantis team. I mean like how he outwits the team. He was able to charm the expedition. It didn't take guns or bombs. He was so clever to use a drug to make everyone like him. Oh look a mob is forming to chase me.

No seriously this is a pretty bad episode. Urgo level bad. While I do not agree with the people who say Lucius raped the people on that planet this episode is still a poor idea and just makes no sense in the plot structure. How stupid can the expedition be? One it should have been clear for the intial operation that Lucius was a con man. Beckett should never have been sent to the planet in the first place. You would also think that Stargate Command would realize something is up when communication with Atlantis became "strange." Once Beckett began acting strange he should have been quarantined instead of letting Lucius roam Atlantis. It should have been obvious from his action to the Atlantis crew that something was wrong with Beckett. I will admitt that I was surprised to the resolution but even then it feels a little bit like technobabble. Finally I cringed at McKay using the drug to get people to do things for him. I know the writers were trying to make it look funny but it comes off as seriously unprofessional not to mention criminial.

Lythisrose
August 23rd, 2012, 09:34 AM
Joe Mallozzi answered a question about this episode in last night's Mailbag (http://josephmallozzi.wordpress.com/2012/08/22/august-22-2012-cos-effect-days-of-stargate-atlantis-past-submersion-mailbag/):

Misty: “…was there ever any question raised in the writer’s room about how Lucius treated people, specifically, his ‘wives’?”

Answer: The consensus in the writers’ room was that Lucius was a creep, taking advantage of anyone he could to further his own ends.

Jae'a
August 26th, 2012, 01:40 PM
This is such a great episode. To see Lucius as a great foe for the Atlantis team. I mean like how he outwits the team. He was able to charm the expedition. It didn't take guns or bombs. He was so clever to use a drug to make everyone like him. Oh look a mob is forming to chase me.

No seriously this is a pretty bad episode. Urgo level bad.
Oh man, that made me laugh, Jelgate! :lol:

My LiveJournal post (http://jo-r-lee.livejournal.com/68226.html)
I don't think I'd call this bad, (but then, I love Urgo, so maybe you shouldn't put too much stock in my opinion! :P ) but it is pretty nuts and creepy. Especially how the Atlantis residents change and are so unlike themselves.
And don't cry in front of Shep, he'll punch you. :P

garhkal
August 26th, 2012, 01:54 PM
I wonder if any of the IOA asked the Lantis team to bring 'samples' back of that herb Lucias used, to see if they could use it to 'win over' more supporters..??

Don Pantaloons
September 22nd, 2012, 06:56 PM
Yuck. I understand that the writers wanted Lucius to be a smarmy, weasely, unlikeable guy (and in that sense they succeeded remarkably), but I didn't even find him to be a "love to hate" character. It doesn't help that I don't like the actor. I didn't like him in Mad About You, I didn't like him in Scrubs, I didn't like him in Burn Notice, and I didn't like him in this episode (I honestly don't remember him in Spin City, but I'll consider that a good thing). I cringe at the prospect of another episode with him (this is my first time watching the series).

Klenotka
September 24th, 2012, 03:44 PM
It was the first mistake where, apparently, everybody loved him on the set so much that they wrote another (even worse) episode with him before season 3 even started. I don´t think TPTB cared too much about the negative feedback the character (and this episode) got but the fact they never brought him back in later seasons may suggest that they learnt.

Alpaca
February 14th, 2013, 03:55 PM
Yeah, this episode wasn't very good in my books. It made no sense that Carson was sent back. It was obvious that Lucius didn't have anything of value to trade and was greatly exaggerating the powers of his medicinal wares. I do have to say though that the actor did a very good job of getting me (the audience) to dislike him. There were so many times that I wanted to just sock him in the face.

Cluas
February 18th, 2013, 02:25 AM
I actually thought this was a funny ep. I liked the actor playing Lucius
The actor playing Carson did great too. I just don't really like his character, and this time he was SO annoying it was actually funny...

:weiranime17:

mrscopterdoc
August 20th, 2014, 05:51 PM
I think this episode could be funny, but Lucius just makes my skin crawl ugh

Todd the Wraith Worshipper
April 25th, 2016, 08:45 AM
What the hell. This guy is a serial rapist who enslaved an entire village and basically tried to rape Dr. Weir, and all they do is send him back to his planet to go on living his life, without the herb?

They should have sent him along on the next trip back to Earth to stand trial.

Haha, that's exactly what I came here to say, "the man is a serial rapist and you're basically gonna let him get off scot-free??". It's all very screwed-up actually.