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GateWorld
July 14th, 2006, 02:50 PM
<DIV ALIGN="center"><TABLE WIDTH="450" BORDER="0" CELLSPACING="0" CELLPADDING="7"><TR><TD STYLE="border:0;"><DIV ALIGN="left"><FONT FACE="Verdana, Arial, san-serif" SIZE="2" COLOR="#000000"><A HREF="http://www.gateworld.net/atlantis/s3/301.shtml"><IMG SRC="http://www.gateworld.net/atlantis/graphics/301.jpg" WIDTH="160" HEIGHT="120" ALIGN="right" HSPACE="10" VSPACE="2" BORDER="0" STYLE="border: 1px black solid" ALT="Visit the Episode Guide"></A><FONT SIZE="1" COLOR="#888888">ATLANTIS SEASON THREE</FONT>
<FONT SIZE="4"><A HREF="http://www.gateworld.net/atlantis/s3/301.shtml" STYLE="text-decoration: none">NO MAN'S LAND</A></FONT>
<FONT SIZE="1">EPISODE NUMBER - 301</FONT>
<IMG SRC="/images/clear.gif" WIDTH="1" HEIGHT="10" ALT="">
The team desperately attempts to stop two Wraith hive ships from reaching Earth. Sheppard must rely on an old foe to rescue McKay and Ronon.

<FONT SIZE="1" COLOR="#888888"><B><A HREF="http://www.gateworld.net/atlantis/s3/301.shtml">VISIT THE EPISODE GUIDE ></A></B>
SPOILERS! PHOTOS! AND MORE!</FONT></FONT></DIV></TD></TR></TABLE></DIV>

Bobthespirit
July 14th, 2006, 08:00 PM
From the predictable double-agent, to the predictably useless beaurocrats, to McKay turning into a white Chris Tucker, this episode pulled all the same punches Stargate has been pulling for over nine years, in extremely humdrum fashion.

And the wraithe threat continues to be overrated by the characters. The show has not convinced me that the wraithe are a huge threat to earth. A hive ship might be able to decimate a small village community with medieval technology, but a planet with six billion people, missiles and warheads, and fighter jets reinforced with Asgard technology? I am completely unconvinced that the wraithe would manage to kill more than a few thousand people tops, and yet, the characters talk like they were when Anubis was descending on the planet.

The only good part about the episode was Landry's chat with Weir, and that had nothing to do with the action of the episode.

I liked Atlantis when they were marooned far away with no consistant communication with Earth, and really on their own. Now I just don't care. I'm not sure I'll watch Atlantis again.

NowIWillDestroyAbydos
July 14th, 2006, 08:28 PM
Good ep. It absolutely sucks that the Orion was destroyed. That the worst allied ship to be destroyed since .... well ever. I hate the producers because of this, I demand another Aurora-class ship, then I like the producers again.

GhostPoet
July 14th, 2006, 08:30 PM
What happened after they killed the queen? My DVR went funky. :/

rarocks24
July 14th, 2006, 08:31 PM
Actually, as of yet we don't know whether the Queen is dead.

Andee Frizzell is signed on to do the next episode. Of course, that doesn't mean anything

Captain-Peregrine
July 14th, 2006, 08:32 PM
I thought this was a wonderful episode, though sometimes the acting smact as a little strained. But I am certainly looking forward to future episodes! :D

Major Tyler
July 14th, 2006, 08:33 PM
I am disappointed that the Orion was destroyed...very disappointed, but I did enjoy the episode otherwise. It was good to see the Daedalus kick some ass in a more convention firefight for once.

kharn the betrayer
July 14th, 2006, 08:36 PM
the Orion blew up T_T we have what had it for 2-3 episodes and it already goes *boom* gah


atleast Major Lorne got to command it before it got destroyed...



but the highlight of this episode for me would be michael

I love his character and have high hopes for him in the future

rarocks24
July 14th, 2006, 08:37 PM
Agreed.

But that drone launch on the part of the Orion made it one hell of a great episode.

Major Gambit
July 14th, 2006, 08:38 PM
AMAZING EPSIODE!! I didnt mind that much that the orion went boom, at least we got to see it fire first :D I knew that ship wouldnt last long. I'm glad that micheal is a good guy now, should be interesting. The orion may be gone but now we have a hive ship!

Lt.Colonel John Sheppard
July 14th, 2006, 08:40 PM
yeah it sucked to see Orion get destroyed but it did a good job at kicking some wraith ass. I kinda figured that this was going to be a two-part episode but 3-part? That's awesome. I like the fact that at the end they ended with sheppard's face as the to be continued credit came up. i thought that michael looked pretty cool and that he was helping sheppard and the humans turn the wraith on the other hive ship into humans.

Sam fisher
July 14th, 2006, 08:41 PM
At least she went out with a bang.

BigHonkinSpaceGun
July 14th, 2006, 08:41 PM
I really enjoyed this episode, though McKay really got on my nerves. Also not happy that the Orion was destroyed. Though they did gain a hive ship.

It also raised some very interesting questions. What will they end up doing to the now-human Wraith? If Michael ends up sticking around, how is he going to be fed?

Overall, I liked it. The few things I disliked were outweighed by the many things I liked. Cool battles and exploding ships a plus. Might only have to wait until next week for my questions to be answered.

Arative
July 14th, 2006, 08:42 PM
Agreed.

But that drone launch on the part of the Orion made it one hell of a great episode.

That was one of the best parts of the episode, I loved watching the drones launch and evade the darts and then swarm around the hive ship. We needed more of the Orion!!

Over all I enjoyed the episode, had a lot of good action and set the stage for some good story threads throughout the season.

rarocks24
July 14th, 2006, 08:44 PM
In my opinion, when the Wraith turned human said hello, did anyone think, did this guy just step out from a Lord of the Rings set into the Atlantis set?

BTW, loved the throne. Mckay should sit in it.:D

Sam fisher
July 14th, 2006, 08:47 PM
In my opinion, when the Wraith turned human said hello, did anyone think, did this guy just step out from a Lord of the Rings set into the Atlantis set?

Your talking about the hair? If so, yeah it did look like that.

FoolishPleasure
July 14th, 2006, 08:47 PM
Quick observations:

Overall a nice episode. Weir was exceptional, showing how good a leader she is, defending herself on Earth. Kudos to Torri for bringing life and fire to this character!

Most everyone was excellent, especially Caldwell. Good to see Lorne. McKay getting rattled on the Wraith ship and Zelenka flustered on the Orion. Those two are so much alike! *Hugs them both*

One part I especially liked was seeing Weir and Teyla working in the beginning and Teyla showing her concern when Weir had to return to Earth. Little scenes like this should have been occurring since the beginning - showing these two leaders supporting each other. It was nice to see, short as it was.

The downside? Shep's kirking cr*p continues. The writers may think this is funny, but they don't realize just how much this turns off a lot of fans.

rarocks24
July 14th, 2006, 08:48 PM
Your talking about the hair? If so, yeah it did look like that.
No, well, sort of. The guy looked exactly like the brown haired young elf escorting the Elf princess to the ships to flee the land. You know, the one that asked Elf princess if she was alright while she was on horseback.

And yes, he did. I swear by it. If and when we get screenshots, I'll post an image. ;)

The Fifth
July 14th, 2006, 08:51 PM
I wanted to see Weir give the reins of Atlantis to Tayla. The scene was totally set up for that. It would show just how much Weir trusts Tayla after all this time. Anyone remember when Janeway gave Chakotay the bridge?

rarocks24
July 14th, 2006, 08:53 PM
I think that was pretty much the situation. It looked like Teyla had control. And did anyone see Teyla with the tablet pc! Hot!!!:D

freyr's mother
July 14th, 2006, 08:56 PM
Really, I didn't see the Orion explode. All I saw were a lot of explosions on the hull of it. But we never actually saw it explode. Furthermore, I would like to know how the Orion was not even able to stand up to two hiveships, but was able to survive a supervolcano's explosion. I know they had to divert power from the shields to power the weapons, but surely their shields weren't the only things that had power. They should have just completely recharged the shield before the battle and then they could have hooked up their power source to power the weapons.

Mitchell82
July 14th, 2006, 09:00 PM
Excellent episode! Both episodes tonight kicked some royal butt! This makes for a great season on both SG-1 and SGA! Didn;t like thatorion was destroyed but we now have our very own HIVE SHIP and can kick some booty! Mabey now we could use our gain against the ORI? Anyway grat episodes looking forward to the rest of the season!

Shepperd: Opporation plan that will go horribly wrong is now executed!

rarocks24
July 14th, 2006, 09:00 PM
I'm watching this episode again. :D

Weir'sRedShirt
July 14th, 2006, 09:02 PM
Weir was exceptional, showing how good a leader she is, defending herself on Earth. Kudos to Torri for bringing life and fire to this character!

And kudos to the writers for giving her a chance to show how amazing her character is. Weir was definitely my favorite part of the ep, it's rare we get to see her at her full potential.


One part I especially liked was seeing Weir and Teyla working in the beginning and Teyla showing her concern when Weir had to return to Earth. Little scenes like this should have been occurring since the beginning - showing these two leaders supporting each other. It was nice to see, short as it was.

I also like how they're actually calling each other by their first names. After two years, I'd think Teyla and Weir would be extremely close friends, seeing as they are both leaders (and women). Unfortunately, we don't see their relationship often, but I loved their scene and hope the writers have more up their sleeves.


The downside? Shep's kirking cr*p continues. The writers may think this is funny, but they don't realize just how much this turns off a lot of fans.

Agreed. I found this episode's Kirking funny, because it was well-placed and definitely in-character for Sheppard, but I'm crossing my fingers that the episodes with plotlines based on his Kirking will stop. Or at least, get boyfriends and girlfriends for everyone else on Atlantis- Shep's not the only attractive one. ;)

I loved how Rodney and Ronon were paired up; too often, it's the same pairings over and over again. Hope to see more these type of pairings throughout the season, and right now I'm hopeful because it was a great episode.

npattis
July 14th, 2006, 09:03 PM
Doesnt surprise me the Orion was destroyed. I predicted it at the end of season 2. No way they would have Atlantis keep that kind of power.

freyr's mother
July 14th, 2006, 09:08 PM
Keep in mind we did not actually see the ship go boom. For all we know it could just be very heavily damaged. Just because the team didn't want to stay on there to find out how good the ship's hull was at surviving wraith weapons fire doesn't mean it exploded. But chances are, yeah PTB sent it to its grave. So angry at TPTB. *shakes fist*

Merlin7
July 14th, 2006, 09:09 PM
A little too slow moving for me. But an obvious SETTING THINGS UP ep so...meh. There were parts I really liked. Michael and Shep interaction was fabulous. Ronon not happy with Michael adn grabbing Shep by the jacket and, before that, Shep grabbing Ronon's gun and saying "Because I said so" Was a cool moment. Shep got great lines and Joe delivered.

Zelenka was adorably frazzled. Loved Caldwell. Weir bits were the biggest bore to me. I really just didn't care. I wanted more action. One scene of her owning up would have been fine.

Loved the flashback scene Shep had of him not paying attention to Zelenka and McKay because he was kinda flirting with the pretty woman at the next table. Go Shep. You're single, have fun. But do pay attention to the important things. LOL

Rodney got on my nerves, I was loving Ronon yelling at him. Enough with the negative Rodney. We got you're probably going to die the first time.

So..still meh. But it is a set up EP, so I'll wait till next week to decide if season 3 feels like it's going to be the same BUST that season 2 ended up being overall for me.

Major Gambit
July 14th, 2006, 09:10 PM
The Coolest parts of this episode were defidently orion launching the drones, the f-302 battle in the beginning, and the battle with the deedy, orion, and hive. I wonder what role Micheal will play in the rest of Atlantis.


Also, how was Colonel Sheppard able to fly around while in hyperspace? does that make any sence to anyone?

Sam fisher
July 14th, 2006, 09:11 PM
Also, how was Colonel Sheppard able to fly around while in hyperspace? does that make any sence to anyone?
He didn't. The hive ships were out of hyperspace when he started the attack.

technoextreme
July 14th, 2006, 09:13 PM
The downside? Shep's kirking cr*p continues. The writers may think this is funny, but they don't realize just how much this turns off a lot of fans.
Im sorry but that had to be one of the most hillarious part of the show not because of Shepard but because very few people wouldn't be staring off at something else instead of listening to them argue. Im not all that angry at the fact the ship is gone but Im a whee bit disappointed at the explosions hitting that ship. They seemed a bit fake and flat. I think the greatest quote had to be from Sheppard when he was summing up the odds.
It's a walk in a park. A park with monsters that want to kill me. Also, is the Daeduleus gone? Seems like we will be getting it back soon or just blowing up any ships that are unsalvagable because having it sitting out in space is a major security risk with the hyperdrives.

Galilahi
July 14th, 2006, 09:17 PM
i liked this ep a lot! grrr that it's a three-parter

i especially liked rodeny's disertation on whether is would be worse to either get burned alive or fed on by a wraith.

i like that michael has been set up as a dubious ally for atlanits a la the genii.

love that weir kicked ass! also like that she realized that she really f**ked up but she stuck to her guns and showed her courage and resolve by making what could have been an end of the world descision when others couldn't.

Major Gambit
July 14th, 2006, 09:17 PM
lol


Mckay: It must have been some kind of spyware, ugh, just like when i used to download porn...MUSIC! When I used to download music!


haha mckay was great in this episode!


also, why do the wraith refer to micheal as micheal? how do they know that name?

Captain-Peregrine
July 14th, 2006, 09:20 PM
In my opinion, when the Wraith turned human said hello, did anyone think, did this guy just step out from a Lord of the Rings set into the Atlantis set?

Thinkin' the same thing. lol. Give that guy a nice big bow and a pretty trinket from Lothlorien and we're there. :D

BTW--LOVED Weir in this episode. I thought she had a great part. Micheal, too, I thought was pretty dang awesome. I hope they don't kill him... And I hope we can go more than 24 hours without blowing up the Hive Ship.

Ace
July 14th, 2006, 09:24 PM
Really liked this episode... and I actually found this episode to be hilarious. McKay was in top form tonight... I usually chuckle a few times during any episode of Stargate, but tonight I was actually laughing many times at McKay.

Great episode... Great visual effects, liked the IOA scenes, Landry, Orion, Caldwell... Good wrap up episode

Ace

captain jake
July 14th, 2006, 09:25 PM
I liked it not as much as "flesh and blood" but I liked it.

The scene where sheppard was trying to remember if he could fly the f-302 in hyperspace was hilarious. "Man I need to listen to those guys more often"

one thing that bugged me was when Weir was talking to Caldwell and Teyla was standing right next to her. It just felt really awcward she wasn't saying anything just standing there acting weird. (very out of place)

Michael is back!! I really like his character, I wonder if he will wan't to become a human now that the wraith have disowned him. I assume he is on his way back to atlantis with the wraith hive ship. So how is his meeting with teyla going to turn out? I realize they have seen each other again already but this time he will probably be coming to stay. What do you think her reaction will be well what will everybodys reaction be?

Ok the second thing that bugged me was why did they just hand over sheppard? It seamed a little um whats the word..... convenient.

I think there is better to come this season.

L.A. Doyle
July 14th, 2006, 09:33 PM
Pretty good. I really liked Landy and Weir getting to talk. :)

I think I like Major Lorne now. I never really noticed him much before. ;)

Are we gonna lose the Daedalus? I hope not. We already lost the Orion. :(

Oh, and McKay was hilarious. :D

Famous
July 14th, 2006, 09:37 PM
I really enjoyed the episode, it just flowed well and kept me interested the whole time. I was really happy to see Michael again, I have a feeling he won't become a recurring character as the show continues on(through the rest of this season and even into future season) like I'd want him to be, but that's okay as he's still very interesting now.

Weir's conversation with Landry was very nice/touching, and I thought it was a nice change of pace from the action on the hive. Sheppard's comments about paying attention to McKay and Zelenka and McKay's DOS joke cracked me up, and Lorne commanding Orion were awesome, although I am upset that Orion kicked the bucket(I too hope they find a new Ancient warship soon enough). I would have liked to see Teyla involved more than he was, but that's a minor convern and overall I think this episode was a great beginning to what I hope will be an exciting new season :D

MasySyma
July 14th, 2006, 09:43 PM
I was glad that the episode turned out well. I enjoyed it immensly.

Normally, Ronon makes me angry, but I enjoyed his interaction with McKay, and Sheppard kept him under control. I hope that Michael will become a regular part of the show, although feeding him might prove rather troubling.

McKay was wonderful this episode, and I appreciated that his life did not have to be threatened by Sheppard or a various villain before he worked. Peril was enough of a motive. :)

I also found the Weir scenes a welcome change. Last season, she was entirely too passive, and I was glad to see her take charge of Atlantis. We'll see more of Teyla in the future, but she clearly has Weir's trust to be left in charge of Atlantis.

I don't mind the Orion going boom, but then, I hated Inferno, so no Orion, no reason to see space Barbie from Andromeda again. :) I was suprised about the Wraith ship, and I hope we get to keep it. That would be fantastic.

Overall, it was a great episode. I hope the rest of Season 3 can keep the momentum.

Major Tyler
July 14th, 2006, 09:51 PM
I really liked Michael in this episode. I hope we see more of Connor Trinneer.

EyeStrain
July 14th, 2006, 09:53 PM
Overall it was great episode. Yeah the Hive ships were truly amazing to watch, the shear size and durability(missile attack and drones). Too bad for the Orion, just totally got owned!

travis
July 14th, 2006, 09:53 PM
OK I don't get to see this until next week so droped in for a spoiler binge.
Man it sounds good cant wait, and the Orion is gone NOOooooooooooooooo.
Dose'nt matter we lose a toy and gained another and this one's bigger.:D

starfox
July 14th, 2006, 09:54 PM
Okay, immediate squeeing I need to get out of the way:

Zelenka and Lorne on the Orion! Lorne in control! Zelenka in action!

Elizabeth and Teyla friendship moment!

Rodney and Ronon interaction! And Rodney, it's okay, we all know you're in charge of the Atlantis porn library.

Shep, McKay, and Zelenka at lunch!!!!!!!!! Canon evidence that the three of them have spent time together off-duty at least once! And of course, Sheppard flirting like the dorky little man-slut he is. Yes, it's immature of him and probably irresponsible for the base CO to be such a blatant flirt, but I would still rather see a one-off shot of him flirting than an attempt at ship with between him and a main character.


Okay, on to actual, coherent episode reactions.

I love, love, love Weir in this episode. This is the Elizabeth I like, the Elizabeth I can cheer for. She's down to business and she's getting things done and she's not taking sh*t from anyone. She commits her forces to battle full-force, even though it's got to be killing her to put so many people on what is almost guaranteed to be a suicide mission.

The quiet moment when she's recalled to Earth, as she's handing over control to Teyla, that moment is priceless. She takes half a second to compose herself, hands off the reins to Teyla (and how much do I love that she put Teyla in charage) and goes through the gate with dignity, and pissed off to boot. She then goes on to handle the IOA and doesn't waver in her decision to do what's right for the expedition and for Earth. And then she tells the IOA where to stick it. The only thing I would have changed is that I would have thrown in a shot at the Chinese ambassador about how the decision was about saving Earth and how the IOA seemed to be the ones attempting to cover their mistakes, but this is why Weir's a diplomat and I'm not (*growls at the Chinese ambassador*). This is the Weir that I wanted to see more of in Season 2. This is the Elizabeth I want to see more of this season.

I found her interactions with Landry rather interesting. I run hot and cold on him in SG1, but I liked him here. I wonder what sort of relationship he had with Weir previous to his posting as head of the SGC. There seems to be a lot of mutual respect there. Elizabeth is also quite respectful to him, with all the 'sir' usage. Makes me wonder if Liz is a military brat.

Oh, first names! So many first names used in this ep. Liz referred to Caldwell by his first name, Teyla said 'Elizabeth' instead of 'Dr. Weir', Lorne called McKay 'Rodney'. They're all becoming closer, more familiar with one another. Makes me wonder what they do in their downtime (oh, how i can't wait for that ep).

Rodney and Ronon. They are so completely opposite, which is what makes them fun to play off each other. Ronon's never-say-die attitude is a bit less stereotypical and more human here. It's more about knowing how to survive and having the will to survive if at all possible. If not, if you have to die, then take out as many Wraith as possible. I also love his trust in Rodney. His belief that Rodney will think of something. He's shown doubt about the intellectual approach before, here he sees the value of relying on someone else's strength.

Line o' the evening:
Sheppard: "It'll be a walk in the park. A very scary park, filled with monsters who are trying to kill me."

Michael: "I do not understand."

Sheppard: "Never mind. Operation 'This Will Most Likely End Badly' is a go."


Applause on the shooting off of Sheppard's wing. I was actually worried about him for a fraction of a second. it was nice having him not come out of an impossible situation unscathed. Yeah, he turns out alright in the end, but it was that moment of panic in the midddle that makes shows feel a little bit more real.

Liked the nod to Rodney's hypoglycemia. Also like the fact that he "would rather die as a hero than as a meal." Still our little fatalist, but growing. I firmly believe that Rodney is a good guy; he's just not the most personable guy, and I'm perfectly fine with that.

I liked Caldwell here. He didn't like the fact that he was being asked to sacrifice his men, but when it really hit him that there was not other way, he gave it all he had, which was exactly the right thing to do.

Liked that Zelenka couldn't save the Orion. You need to lose something to make the win feel like a win; if you come out of the battle unscathed, then why do I care?

Using the Wraith ship's air was an inspired idea. Having life support on the Daedalus damaged was also a good idea; showed the perils of space travel.

There was a great moment right after Michael was beamed aboard the Daedalus where he was looking around, just looking. It made me feel like he was doing a mental catalouge of everything for later use. Made me wonder what he's thinking.

My problem with Season 2 was that I felt that they were moving the Wraith plotline too quickly, that they needed to drag it out a little bit more so as to have an enemy that would still interest us in later seasons. But it looks like Michael can be used for at least another episode, and I think I'd like to see him.

I love that Ronon still doesn't trust him, though, even after he gives up his weapon.

Basically, if you haven't gathered it by now, what I liked most about this episode was the sense of the relationships between the characters and the sense of risk. Those are the things that make me want to keep watching, that help make a show great. Can't wait to see where they go from here.

(wish for rest of the season: okay, we've seen a bit of McKay-Ronon interaction, let's keep on with that and let me see a bit of McKay-Teyla)

Final squee for Zelenka!!!!!!!!!!!!! And seeing him and McKay work together. Also for seeing McKay take charge. Now, I'm off to find translations of Zelenka's Czech in this ep.

kmwhite
July 14th, 2006, 10:02 PM
Liked the nod to Rodney's hypoglycemia. Also like the fact that he "would rather die as a hero than as a meal." Still out little fatalist, but growing. I firmly believe that Rodney is a good guy; he's just not the most personable guy, and I'm perfectly fine with that.

I beg to differ, Rodney's fatalist ways are the reason he's my favorite character on the show! Although, it's probably because those would be the thoughts going through my mind.... Otherwise, does anyone get a "free-jaffa/shol'va" type vibe off a ship of former wraiths? ::shudders::

coolove
July 14th, 2006, 10:05 PM
Ditto for the Lorne in control of the Orion. :) Looks like they're giving him more responsibility. I thought this episode was okay. I didn't get the feel of urgency as I did while watching SG1 but I did find some parts of the episode quite appealing. I enjoyed watching Weir interact with Landry and defending her position to the IOA although there were times I was like "yeah, you guys screwed up big time".

GreyFox
July 14th, 2006, 10:09 PM
no there better be another aurora class war ship in pegasus.

WHY'D they kill it? other than that awesome CG loved the space battles.


ep2 seems awesome.

vaberella
July 14th, 2006, 10:22 PM
Okay first off..fantastic ep. I give it a 9.0-9.5/10 and it lost this point because they lost a vital ship---the orion. Overall fantastic episode.

It had team work, it had the wratih as a lethal force. WE come to find out that female wraiths are unaffected. It also shows that the gas thing works, shoot it was just blody great.

As for the characters:

Weir: For real wonderful characterization and she's finally using that noggin'. She did in this ep by sacrificing the Orion and trying ot eliminate teh wraith hive ship--what she should have done in Michael to Michael. When there's a threat that can't be reason with...or seems to be problematic..you get rid of it, before it becomes totally unmanageable. So I like this, she's moved from the dumbing down. And she had serous balls. It was good. I was upset over Orion..but excellent.

Teyla: Fantastic. Unfortunately not much, but I know she might be getting more air in next weeks eps and she flys a ship. And she is definitely in control of Atlatnis when all the heads are gone. Which is fabulous....because it proves mhy point that she was probabely in charge during in Intruder as I suspected. Cause I they seemed to have to come to her to be informed of anything that went on. That's great. Hopefully we'll get to see more development.

John: ooh...finally back. I like this Shep. It was great..very Shep like, he was smart mouthed like he was in S1, and he was on his toes. Pluse he did his duty and he was good at it. I was overall disappointed in Shep S2, although I knew what they were going for and I wanted a taste of it; I just found it pushed into excessive. This is cool. Plus he was using his brain.

Ronon/McKay: Perfection. Not as good as Ford/McKay energy of course, but funny. And who saw that there was more to Ronon than being reckless killer...he did have some control and he was using his brain throughout the ep. It was great to see. And he showed Rodney that he does havea brain and knows how to use it.

I liked this ep for the action...lets not forget the damage and destruction the final legs of the orion did to the hive ship or the affects. It was greatly put together and nothing ot whinge about--besides the unsavory loss of a ship we know so little about. Anyway it was great seeing all the characers not only working together on a team level but also on an intellectual level.

My one problem?! Where was Carson?!

Great ep..and I give it a bloody three thumbs up!! One in praise of the Orion--on a great death although unwanted!

keppiezbt
July 14th, 2006, 10:26 PM
OK I don't get to see this until next week so droped in for a spoiler binge.
Man it sounds good cant wait, and the Orion is gone NOOooooooooooooooo.
Dose'nt matter we lose a toy and gained another and this one's bigger.:D

the second they saved the ship last season, u knew it was gonna be destroyed....we dont get any ancient toys to play with for more than an episode

GreyFox
July 14th, 2006, 10:31 PM
i wanna see them explain the orions destruction to the tiranians

2ndgenerationalteran
July 14th, 2006, 10:33 PM
wow, looks like the organic tech is just a wierd form of overgrowth, looks like there is a metalic ship under that stuff. seems like its like been infested.

looks like the deadalus is in bad shape and the orion isnt much better with our patches

travis
July 14th, 2006, 10:33 PM
the second they saved the ship last season, u knew it was gonna be destroyed....we dont get any ancient toys to play with for more than an episode
Yeah I know, but I hoping they could of let us play with it just a tiny, winny bit longer.

Adrius
July 14th, 2006, 11:04 PM
Drones are awesome (not that we didn't know already).

Nice to see rail guns put to use in proper fashion, I'd like to see more of that.


Shep's kirking cr*p continues. The writers may think this is funny, but they don't realize just how much this turns off a lot of fans.

Huh? What are you talking about?

Orion's Star
July 14th, 2006, 11:27 PM
Why was Shephard in a fighter by himself while every one else had a RIO/co-pilot?

Because he's a "star"?

xfkirsten
July 14th, 2006, 11:31 PM
I thought this one was a pretty decent one - very par for the course for Stargate. Not bad, but nothing that really makes it stand out to me, either.

Loved Shep's flashback to his "distraction." It was a cute little laugh, and SO many people would do the same thing. :p

Also loved Weir's showdown with the IOA. I liked that she admitted to Landry that she made a mistake, but she didn't let that get in the way of standing up for herself.


Elizabeth is also quite respectful to him, with all the 'sir' usage. Makes me wonder if Liz is a military brat.

Well, when Torri was here on GW back in January, someone asked her what she thought Weir's backstory was. And she said that she's always envisioned her being a military brat. :) That doesn't neccessarily make it canon, but at least you're not hte only one that thinks that way. ;)

starfox
July 14th, 2006, 11:33 PM
Why was Shephard in a fighter by himself while every one else had a RIO/co-pilot?

Because he's a "star"?


Probably for plot reasons. It would have been a pain and a waste of air time to give Sheppard a co-pilot who the writers would have to give a name, and he would have to either a) Be killed when the wing blew, which would add an unnecessary dose of angst, or b)tag along after Sheppard unnecessarily for the rest of the ep. In terms of procedure, he probably should have had one, but in terms of script, it just wouldn't have worked that well.

Major Tyler
July 14th, 2006, 11:33 PM
Why was Shephard in a fighter by himself while every one else had a RIO/co-pilot?

Because he's a "star"?You don't know that "everyone else" had a copilot. They didn't show us "every" cockpit.

Orion's Star
July 14th, 2006, 11:46 PM
Probably for plot reasons. It would have been a pain and a waste of air time to give Sheppard a co-pilot who the writers would have to give a name, and he would have to either a) Be killed when the wing blew, which would add an unnecessary dose of angst, or b)tag along after Sheppard unnecessarily for the rest of the ep. In terms of procedure, he probably should have had one, but in terms of script, it just wouldn't have worked that well.

That is what I figured it was, which is lame and lazy, but oh well. Ultimately, it was probably for the best.

Dark Falcon
July 14th, 2006, 11:50 PM
^^True, but it's an assumption.

Excellent start to the new season!

I, ironically, even though I enjoyed this episode, I
don't have much to say about it other than it was
highly entertaining!

Dr. Weir did an excellent job at standing up to the
political opposition that she faced! Always has to
be stubborn and have that serious look on
her face! Cool! :)

My favorite parts were the F-302 scenes! The dogfight at
the beginning of the episode was spectacular!! Sheppard's
decision making in this episode was highly enjoyable!

Btw, DID ANYONE NOTICE THE CAMERA ANGLE after the
commercial near the end? It was looking at space while
the Daedalus was rotating! Too cool. In response to that
part and the pessimistic reviews about Atlantis, I say,
"WATCH THE SHOW!! IT HAS POTENTIAL! IT ROCKS!!"

LONG LIVE STARGATE ATLANTIS!!

gambit
July 15th, 2006, 12:01 AM
Probably for plot reasons. It would have been a pain and a waste of air time to give Sheppard a co-pilot who the writers would have to give a name, and he would have to either a) Be killed when the wing blew, which would add an unnecessary dose of angst, or b)tag along after Sheppard unnecessarily for the rest of the ep. In terms of procedure, he probably should have had one, but in terms of script, it just wouldn't have worked that well.

Definitely plots reasons, but you could also say he didn't have one because...simple, he wasn't given one, it's not his squadran(I think they were called Dagger(?) He took command and probably made whoever was #1 into #2. Probably the female pilot who I think. And what is the point of the co pilot?

freeballn83
July 15th, 2006, 12:42 AM
I have one question about this episode. Didn't SG1 and the alliance ships just get their butts handed to them by the Ori? Now why is it that Weir goes to the SGC and theirs no mention of it, not even by the IOA (I might have missed it). Noone even seems to act like anything was out of the ordinary. This is why I hate cross-overs. The storylines either don't match up or don't fit together. I frankly would love the Wraith to join us in our Galaxy. Theres these nice new folks called the Ori that I'm sure they'd love to try to convert them to origin (sarcasm). Anyways. I liked what I saw in Buffy and Angel neither of the storylines were connected and greatly due to the fact that they were on different networks (which benefited them because they could do their own storys without cross-overs). But when they did crossovers they seemed to lose the storyline in between. Now with atlantis and SG1 going back and forth its hard to tell whether this episode was set months before the Ori's attack or months afterwards. I understand that Atlantis needs to do its own thing but don't do crossovers then. Leave them stranded. I might be overemphasising this small detail but I just get annoyed when they all of a sudden have amneshia of anything relevant that had just happened in the episode prior. Its the stargate taboo. Other than that the episode was good. I still don't think the Wraith are that great of a big bad. However I enjoy the inbetween episodes of the weekly adventures of Atlantis. Great to see both shows back. rant over. Now please give some feedback.

Lord Shiva
July 15th, 2006, 01:03 AM
Awesome, awesome episode. Finally, the Wraith are being shown as extremely nasty badguys. I'm sorry, some people may think they're wimps, but we already know that a Hive ship is no competition against a Ancient ship one-on-one, so seeing the Orion annihilate one of the two Hive ships was awesome. Also, unless you have shielding (heck, even if you do unless you're the Ori!) a nuclear explosion is nothing to laugh about. Basically, great fight sequences!

Also, I don't particularly mind Sheppard thinking about women. I do it all the time, I don't see why he can't.

Bossman
July 15th, 2006, 01:21 AM
I have one question about this episode. Didn't SG1 and the alliance ships just get their butts handed to them by the Ori? Now why is it that Weir goes to the SGC and theirs no mention of it, not even by the IOA (I might have missed it). Noone even seems to act like anything was out of the ordinary.

Well, as far as we know, the events from No Man's Land might have taken place before Flesh and Blood.

JanusAncient
July 15th, 2006, 01:42 AM
The best part of the episode, was when we got to see the Daedalus in action, up close against a Hive. I didn't think that Earth weapons, could cause that much damage. The second best thing, was when the Orion exploded, sorry to say, but it had to go. It would have too easy to keep pulling it out, attacking one Hive at a time. Caldwell, was the best he'd ever been.

Gigajules
July 15th, 2006, 02:23 AM
Why was Shephard in a fighter by himself while every one else had a RIO/co-pilot?

Because he's a "star"?

Could be explained by the fact that because he's not regularly assigned to the Daedalus as a pilot, they just might not have had a RIO laying around ready to go. He took that flight out pretty fast, so there might not have been time to scramble someone that wasn't part of a regular flight team to go with him.

Either that or all available co-pilots thought about what happens when a background character jumps in a ship with a main character and flies into certain danger.

AutumnDream
July 15th, 2006, 02:27 AM
1) Weir owned.
2) McKay was, unsurprisingly, hilarious. The DOS comment. Lawl!
3) Ditto for Shep.
4) Omg cool! Was Teyla in command? Sure looked like it.
5) NOOO OMGWTF ORION?! I thought Ancient ships were supposed to be supreme ownage? And Orion gets friend by ONE extremely damaged Hive Ship? LAAAAME! Such a cop-out. We'd better get another new Ancient ship soon.
6) Zomg! One hive de-wraithified! So creepy. We'd better get to keep the ship.
7) OMFG! The drone ownage was awesome!

Episode gets a 8/10. I enjoyed it. :D

Dan2k
July 15th, 2006, 02:35 AM
Overall a good episode, nice to see that they didn't kill of any semi-regulars on the show (unlike 24, there they kill of just about everyone just for kicks).

Oh and why do they have to destroy every single piece of technology they gain on the show? Why can't they just keep one they that helps them for some time during the show? Would be good if they had some good news to help them...

Blue Banrigh
July 15th, 2006, 02:39 AM
Overall a good episode, nice to see that they didn't kill of any semi-regulars on the show (unlike 24, there they kill of just about everyone just for kicks).

Oh and why do they have to destroy every single piece of technology they gain on the show? Why can't they just keep one they that helps them for some time during the show? Would be good if they had some good news to help them...
Guess it's the choice between killing the tech or killing the secondary characters. :) I'd choose Lorne and Zelenka over the Orion.

A question, any thoughts on why the Wraith Queen wasn't affected by the gas? Was it just the delivery system? Would it work if they were injected with the retro-virus instead?

kmwhite
July 15th, 2006, 02:44 AM
no there better be another aurora class war ship in pegasus.

WHY'D they kill it? other than that awesome CG loved the space battles.


ep2 seems awesome.

I think that for the Orion to have survived the battle would have been asking too much. They went into hyperspace, with out Shields or Weapons (if I remember correctly) and Zelenka got it to a working order, of sorts. To expect him, or McKay on their own to have had it tip-top is too much, however together maybe they could have. Don't get me wrong, I loved the ship, and was upset to lose it, but it was more realistic. Besides, what else would have forced them onto the hive ship?


Drones are awesome (not that we didn't know already).

Nice to see rail guns put to use in proper fashion, I'd like to see more of that.



Huh? What are you talking about?
I personally thought after seeing this and the fight in SG-1 against Anubis' fleet, that the drones are possibly the most beautiful and elegant weapon we've yet seen. They're... pretty?... to watch.

And the comment by McKay about DOS.. Perfection. It's too bad Ronon couldn't appreciate it. I fell out of my chair.


Guess it's the choice between killing the tech or killing the secondary characters. :) I'd choose Lorne and Zelenka over the Orion.

A question, any thoughts on why the Wraith Queen wasn't affected by the gas? Was it just the delivery system? Would it work if they were injected with the retro-virus instead?

IIRC, McKay made some comment about the Queen and Beckette's thoughts. I think it may be that the bug just has a stronger hold. Your probably right about the injections. I never even thought of that. Maybe a stronger dose?

Sorry for the long post. I won't quote nextime.

Avatar28
July 15th, 2006, 03:13 AM
All in all I really enjoyed the episode. It was really nice to see our weapons actually do some damage for a change. Although you would think that a nuke going off next to the hull would have done more damage to the ship than it did.

The Orion being destroyed was to be expected I suppose. Still, it's sure to revive the ancient vs asgard shield debate. Seemed to me even before they diverted the power from the shields to fire the drones it was taking a lot more of a beating from the wraith ships than the Daedalus seemed to. Or certainly as much as least. And we all know the D isn't nearly at it's potential with our power sources (Hermiod's warning when they sent the ZPM to Atlantis in the Siege pt 3 that their shields would be significantly weakened). Considering all of that I think it's safe to say that the shields are at least comparable (we'll disregard the ones on Atlantis as they're likely much larger and more powerful generators, hence the requirement of a ZPM to power them).

Weir with the IOC was just awesome. I especially liked the way she effectively told them to kiss her ass after she gave the go ahead with the intercept mission. Go Elizabeth!

There were several great lines but my favorites have all been mentioned in this thread already: the DOS comment and the spyware one from Rodney and the ones by Shep about the walk in the park and paying more attention.

shockwave
July 15th, 2006, 04:18 AM
good episode
really liked it
looking forward to part 2
Michael was great, hope they don't kill him

Ouroboros
July 15th, 2006, 04:53 AM
I was pleasently surprised by this episode. I was expecting a suckfest of letdowns froma good build-up like last year, but I got something that gave me hope that SGA might be making a turn around of sorts. There were a number of things that were done here that have been lacking previously that I really enjoyed, for example...

-The pivital player in their escape and success was Michael! Without him disabling the jamming code it would have only been a matter of time before the entire Daedalus suffocated or go killed by the hiveship when it repaired itself. He also helped shep and masterminded what would have been an otherwise impossible escape from the hiveship. This was so much better than watching another wank of session about how uber the heroes are. They would have been boned if not for him. It's nice to see a situation where the heros don't do everything they need to win the day for once and other characters are actually allowed and required to make essential contributions of value.

-The space battle was better than any before it on virtually all levels. No more stupid sitting still and getting shot, the ships actually moved. Caldwell finally decided to start using his ship to it's full potential.

-The Wraith came out looking a bit better in the end. The character of Michael proves that all Wraith are not stupid drooling closet monsters and he actually didn't die! I figured he was screwed for sure along with the hivequeen. While I would have preffered both of them to become recurring, one good one evil, I'm happy that at least one has been allowed to. I look forward to seeing what will happen to Mike in the future now that he's probably going to become defacto leader of a group of formerly human Wraiths.

This episode also did something to address the long lingering perception of Wraith wussiness by allowing their hives to destroy the Orion and nearly the Daedalus as well, and by showing that a hive can take multiple stargate super nukes hitting its hull armour from the outside. They basically did everything they could to show that the hives were a credible threat short of actually making them win and get to Earth (which was never really in the cards) and I appretiate that. It is indeed about time.

-Weir actually had to answer to somebody as well! All these surprises in one episode were a bit unexpected. The last thing I expected to ever see on Stargate Atlantis was Dr. Weir get called on any of her little woopsies. I wonder how she gets back to Atlantis though.

As for the Wraith queen not turning human McKay said that Beckett had speculated that the females might be immune to the gas. Them killing her has got me somewhat confused though because the actress that plays the Wraith queens is credited in the next episode (the one where I'd initially assumed queenie would buy her farm for this reason). Is that going to be like night of the living Wraith queens or something now?

SteveRowland
July 15th, 2006, 05:40 AM
I am sorry for mistakes in my english because I am from Czech Republic (Europe) and I need english subtitles or scenario for Stargate Atlantis season 3 epizode 1. If somebody wants to help me, you can write me ICQ message (239292887). But it's a rush thing!!! PLEASE

Ltcolshepjumper
July 15th, 2006, 05:50 AM
I was pleasently surprised by this episode. I was expecting a suckfest of letdowns froma good build-up like last year, but I got something that gave me hope that SGA might be making a turn around of sorts. There were a number of things that were done here that have been lacking previously that I really enjoyed, for example...

-The pivital player in their escape and success was Michael! Without him disabling the jamming code it would have only been a matter of time before the entire Daedalus suffocated or go killed by the hiveship when it repaired itself. He also helped shep and masterminded what would have been an otherwise impossible escape from the hiveship. This was so much better than watching another wank of session about how uber the heroes are. They would have been boned if not for him. It's nice to see a situation where the heros don't do everything they need to win the day for once and other characters are actually allowed and required to make essential contributions of value.

-The space battle was better than any before it on virtually all levels. No more stupid sitting still and getting shot, the ships actually moved. Caldwell finally decided to start using his ship to it's full potential.

-The Wraith came out looking a bit better in the end. The character of Michael proves that all Wraith are not stupid drooling closet monsters and he actually didn't die! I figured he was screwed for sure along with the hivequeen. While I would have preffered both of them to become recurring, one good one evil, I'm happy that at least one has been allowed to. I look forward to seeing what will happen to Mike in the future now that he's probably going to become defacto leader of a group of formerly human Wraiths.

This episode also did something to address the long lingering perception of Wraith wussiness by allowing their hives to destroy the Orion and nearly the Daedalus as well, and by showing that a hive can take multiple stargate super nukes hitting its hull armour from the outside. They basically did everything they could to show that the hives were a credible threat short of actually making them win and get to Earth (which was never really in the cards) and I appretiate that. It is indeed about time.

-Weir actually had to answer to somebody as well! All these surprises in one episode were a bit unexpected. The last thing I expected to ever see on Stargate Atlantis was Dr. Weir get called on any of her little woopsies. I wonder how she gets back to Atlantis though.
As for the Wraith queen not turning human McKay said that Beckett had speculated that the females might be immune to the gas. Them killing her has got me somewhat confused though because the actress that plays the Wraith queens is credited in the next episode (the one where I'd initially assumed queenie would buy her farm for this reason). Is that going to be like night of the living Wraith queens or something now?

WellSince Dr. Weir will still be on Earth in Misbegotten, I assume she is brought back by the Odyssey in Sg1's The Pegasus Project. And tthe Wraith queen could just be the queen of the hive that attacks our new hive.:sheppard:

SteveRowland
July 15th, 2006, 05:56 AM
Please!!!

Major Gambit
July 15th, 2006, 05:59 AM
i didnt mind that the orion exploded. I'd rather have the sence of danger in Atlantis


besides, what better to replace an ancient warship than a wraith hive ship!

vaberella
July 15th, 2006, 05:59 AM
I blieve the woman who played the wraith queen...always plays the wraith queen. I think it's the make up that makes her 'appear' different.


Awesome, awesome episode. Finally, the Wraith are being shown as extremely nasty badguys. I'm sorry, some people may think they're wimps, but we already know that a Hive ship is no competition against a Ancient ship one-on-one, so seeing the Orion annihilate one of the two Hive ships was awesome. Also, unless you have shielding (heck, even if you do unless you're the Ori!) a nuclear explosion is nothing to laugh about. Basically, great fight sequences!

Also, I don't particularly mind Sheppard thinking about women. I do it all the time, I don't see why he can't.


Yes, that's true it annihilated but at also at it's own death unfortunately--it rainbowed in all it's drone--then got seriously attacked by the orion. Dude it was a great fight. I mean I was gonna say they started off great and I can't wait for the next ep..until I remember that's what S2 led me to blieve (again fantastic season just not as good as S1) with The Siege 3, but killed it with Intruder. But let's not be too pessimistic, if this is what they have in store for us..the Writers are as excellent as I thought they were..

Great writing.

Well I found it interesting that the queen wasn't infected, and got me to wonder if by any chance--this is the step their going to push Teyla's character. What real purpose is the queen, at the moment we know she's the head honcho--but if Teyla's part wraith how is that going to play and if the Hive ship NEEDS to have a queen of some kind of on board. Now that will be wicked.

i didnt mind that the orion exploded. I'd rather have the sence of danger in Atlantis


I wouldn't have minded if we gott o know more about the orion. It seems to have went on a suicide mission and we didn't get to know how to implement things from let's say the orion ship onto the hive ship. But not only that---we really didn't get to know enough about that big bad boy. So I was definitely sad to see it go, it could have been an advantage in other scenarios.


VB

freyr's mother
July 15th, 2006, 06:08 AM
Sheppard, McKay, and Caldwell all had excellent lines. Especially sheppard, I was LMAO the entire episode.

prion
July 15th, 2006, 06:16 AM
As for the Wraith queen not turning human McKay said that Beckett had speculated that the females might be immune to the gas. Them killing her has got me somewhat confused though because the actress that plays the Wraith queens is credited in the next episode (the one where I'd initially assumed queenie would buy her farm for this reason). Is that going to be like night of the living Wraith queens or something now?

All wraith ladies have been playead by the same actress. I mean, they all sorta look alike to us humans, right? ;) Easier if you can find someone for whom all the prosthetics are already made - she can act - so.... most of the wraiths have been played by one actor over the first two seasons, but Christopher Hyderdahl (Halling) will be playing a wraith or two in season 3 (a VERY tall wraith!)

prion
July 15th, 2006, 06:18 AM
Guess it's the choice between killing the tech or killing the secondary characters. :) I'd choose Lorne and Zelenka over the Orion.

A question, any thoughts on why the Wraith Queen wasn't affected by the gas? Was it just the delivery system? Would it work if they were injected with the retro-virus instead?

Could be hormonal for all you know (wraith queens). But, in a way, it's very ironic and laughable because most medical tests are done on men and they neglect to test women (sure do that here on earth). Of course, queens aren't stupid enough to be caught and tested on either ;)

Yes, Lorne and Zelenka have priority over a ship. Of course, the owners of the Orion might be a bit ticked off ("that's the last time we lend you our spaceship!")

Ouroboros
July 15th, 2006, 06:32 AM
All wraith ladies have been playead by the same actress. I mean, they all sorta look alike to us humans, right? ;) Easier if you can find someone for whom all the prosthetics are already made - she can act - so.... most of the wraiths have been played by one actor over the first two seasons, but Christopher Hyderdahl (Halling) will be playing a wraith or two in season 3 (a VERY tall wraith!)

I know and that lady is credited for misbegotten, I noticed it when I was trying to think about what was probably going to happen in 301-02. Are they going to bring her back as a new Wraithqueen already or are GWs summaries just wrong given that they were written a while ago before many details were out?

I just hope Michael lives. I'll pass on the zombie hivequeen if it means Michael can live past the next episode.

Well wait, I'll pass on the zombie hivequeen if she doesn't crack anyone's head open and feast on the goo inside. If that's slated to go down then well, sorry Mike.

Here's a question though. What colour would a zombie hivequeen turn? She's already green so that's out, and she can't just stay the same colour because then that would be some sort of super zombie that can't be easily spotted as a zombie, and I'm not going to be party to the creation of no hivequeen super zombies, no sir, no way, no how.

Serenity228
July 15th, 2006, 06:43 AM
I really, really wanted to like this episode more, but alas, I think it fell short of a truly eventful season opener.

It had some good conversations, space battles, and yes, Weir was expected to explain her actions.

But, I did not like Weir's defeatist attitude. Yes, with 20/20 hindsight she did make mistakes. Some of them rather large, however, as she said, she was reporting back her every move. I would have liked her to go in and truly have them for breakfast as Landry says. The committee gets confronted with flesh eating bugs and they about lose it, how would they like to deal with life sucking humanoids on a day to day basis. I believe they need to walk a mile in Weir's shoes and then we will see how perfect they act.

I was also upset that Zelenka was not allowed to do more good on the Orion. Almost every episode, Rodney gets to save the day with his genius. I had hoped it would be Zelenka's turn. Rather TPTB just had Zelenka throw up his hands and say they needed to beam out. Rodney would have been given a chance to save the day. I understand that Zelenka is not Rodney, but I felt that Zelenka deserved a turn or at least some cool lines.

My final complaint was with the plot in general. Did it sound familiar to anyone? Say The Lost Boys/Hive?

1- Ford gets a team together they make a plan that includes outwitting the wraith. Team Atlantis makes a plan that includes the Wraith.
2- Both plans go south.
3- People from both teams end up on wraith ships.
4- Rodney does not save the day.
5- The teams get help from unlikely sources, i.e. Michael the wraith and Ford who the team thought was either dead or cocooned.
6- The wraith ships are disabled/blown up.
7- Both planets are saved from culling.

IMHO :sheppard:

Pocus
July 15th, 2006, 06:54 AM
I thought this was a great episode from beginnng to end.

Things I liked:

* The scene with Caldwell and Weir when he returns to Atlantis. He seems to want to take a moment and think of those that are lost, but Weir seems to know if she stops to think about that, she will not be able to get things back under control in time to stop the Wraith from reaching Earth.
I also liked how Weir told Caldwell he needed to go stop the Hive ships even though they all knew it could be a one way mission for him and his crew. There was too much at stake.

* Weir and Teyla together. I love how Teyla is calling her Elizabeth and seemed to be standing right behind Elizabeth to give her support, where Sheppard would have been if he was there.
When Elizabeth was recalled to Earth, the reins of Atlantis were passed to Teyla without any discussion, which, IMO, shows that Teyla has become an integral part of Weir's team. I just hope we get to see more interaction between the two of them this season.

* Ronon and Mckay together was just too good. They are polar opposites for reactions to perilous situations but I thought that Ronon handled Mckay even better than Sheppard does. Ronon just carried on with what he was planning and let Mckay in on what was going as needed. He did not give Rodney too much time to think (therefore whine and moan) about what was coming. Ronon has the "Just do it" attitude.

* Sheppard was great! Quick thinking and responses to changes in situation are what we got used to in season 1. I hope they are back to stay. I love how he was trying to figure out if he could disengage while in hyperspace. They flashback scene with Zalenka and Mckay argueing over the theory while eating was funny. At least he remembered that they were discussing it, since his mind was occupied with the cute scientist who was making eyes at him.
I liked his interaction with Michael. He knew he needed help to accomplish anything and he took what was offered. It was funny to see him watch Ronon after Michael handed him his weapon and said that he was trusting Ronon. Sheppard knew that would not turn out well. "Because I said so" was all it took to get Ronon to stand down.

* Michael has the potential to be an interesting character. He has to figure out where his loyalties will be. I believe he will side with anyone who shows they trust him and accept him for what "HE" is. I hope we get to see some of his development.

* Lorne and Zalenka getting into the action!


Things I did not like:

* blink blink*

Oh yeah, losing the Orion!

Tealcfan
July 15th, 2006, 06:59 AM
very good ep. i was sad when the orion blew up but at least it took down one hive with it. I also liked the part when sheppard was on the hive in hyperspace and was like "man i need to pay attention to Zelinka and Mckay more often" that one made me laugh :)

Ugly Pig
July 15th, 2006, 07:04 AM
Behold! It's


PIGGY'S USELESS OPINION
of 'No Man's Land'

Good ep, but what's with the "To Be Continued" at the end? "I think we're out of the woods" doesn't exactly make for a great cliffhanger. :) I think it would have been just as well to end on a fade out without it saying "To Be Continued", but maybe that's just me.

The character of Michael is an interesting one. Even though he's fully a Wraith again, he took our side in the fight and helped the good guys beat the Wraith. Pretty drastic. I wonder what's gonna happen to him.

Random Observations!
- Lots and lots of action in this episode. Pretty good stuff, too.
- As far as I can tell, the opening credits sequence is left unchanged since last season.
- This is the first season of any of the Stargate series not to have any changes made to the regular cast (compared to the preceding season) since the franchise moved to SciFi.
- Weir and Landry appear to be pretty chummy with each other now, something which wasn't the case the last time we saw them together a year ago. I guess they must have had regular contact since then and gotten to know each other better or something.
- This is Weir's second visit to Earth since she first left for Atlantis with the expedition.
- I was expecting Ronan to distrust Michael, and it's no wonder that he hates the Wraith, but why did he specify that he hated Michael especially? Was there some conflict between those two that goes beyond his hatred for the Wraith that I don't remember?
- First mention of the Ori in an Atlantis episode.
- First appearance of Woolsey (and first mention of the IOA) in an Atlantis episode. Interesting that he would appear on both shows this week. I guess TPTB are trying to increase his presence in the SG-verse.
- So the Wraith-to-human gas doesn't work on females... Why?

Yeah... Good ep.


http://photobucket.com/albums/v413/uglypig/thumbsup.gif

vaberella
July 15th, 2006, 07:17 AM
I really, really wanted to like this episode more, but alas, I think it fell short of a truly eventful season opener.

It had some good conversations, space battles, and yes, Weir was expected to explain her actions.

But, I did not like Weir's defeatist attitude. Yes, with 20/20 hindsight she did make mistakes. Some of them rather large, however, as she said, she was reporting back her every move. I would have liked her to go in and truly have them for breakfast as Landry says. The committee gets confronted with flesh eating bugs and they about lose it, how would they like to deal with life sucking humanoids on a day to day basis. I believe they need to walk a mile in Weir's shoes and then we will see how perfect they act.

I was also upset that Zelenka was not allowed to do more good on the Orion. Almost every episode, Rodney gets to save the day with his genius. I had hoped it would be Zelenka's turn. Rather TPTB just had Zelenka throw up his hands and say they needed to beam out. Rodney would have been given a chance to save the day. I understand that Zelenka is not Rodney, but I felt that Zelenka deserved a turn or at least some cool lines.

My final complaint was with the plot in general. Did it sound familiar to anyone? Say The Lost Boys/Hive?

1- Ford gets a team together they make a plan that includes outwitting the wraith. Team Atlantis makes a plan that includes the Wraith.
2- Both plans go south.
3- People from both teams end up on wraith ships.
4- Rodney does not save the day.
5- The teams get help from unlikely sources, i.e. Michael the wraith and Ford who the team thought was either dead or cocooned.
6- The wraith ships are disabled/blown up.
7- Both planets are saved from culling.

IMHO :sheppard:


I would agree with you, but this plan to take out the Wraith was a focus for Atlantis before the episode The Gift. So that means that Ford got his idea from a team he was part of, he was just another alternate extention. And this was more forced upon situation than the Ford situation. Ford had planned and was executing, Atlantis was still planning---and was pretty much forced to execute when they kidnapped a wraith and that went all wrong.

By the way ....Hallowed is the Daedalus!!


Behold! It's


PIGGY'S USELESS OPINION
of 'No Man's Land'

Good ep, but what's with the "To Be Continued" at the end? "I think we're out of the woods" doesn't exactly make for a great cliffhanger. :) I think it would have been just as well to end on a fade out without it saying "To Be Continued", but maybe that's just me.

The character of Michael is an interesting one. Even though he's fully a Wraith again, he took our side in the fight and helped the good guys beat the Wraith. Pretty drastic. I wonder what's gonna happen to him.

<snip>


Actually I understand it. I think a Wraith female is needed for the ship to reallly work, remember the Wraith ship is organic, might be living force. I'm starting to think that last scene with Teyla is actually the initial scene, so she has to come and save the day..or in other words, the problems the boys have been put in. It's great really because I didn't see the major importance of the Wraith Queen and or female until that very scene.


I agree with you about Michael. He's definitely an interesting Character, but it seems that he'll eventually be the enemy of both the Atlantis Ex. and the Wraith, if past spoilers are correct. Which makes for even more intersting tv.

I'm loving this season!
VB

rarocks24
July 15th, 2006, 07:18 AM
Another observation is the fact that the Wraith queen looked both different and sounded much much much much more feminine. They also made her so much more evil. Which was a great thing, IMO. I agree with someone that thought the explosions hitting the Orion looked a little rushed. On the other hand, at least we got an awesome drone launch to destroy the Hive ship. Shame. We should have destroyed the other and used it on a much more unexpecting hive. Oh well.

Daedalus fought nicely, though I'm a bit dissapointed in that I would have thought she would have more missiles than that I guess. :( On another note, shame we lost the Wraith scout ship, she would have been a prize asset for us. But then again, I'm sure there are other scout ships aboard.

Yeah, I wonder why it didn't affect females either. I wonder if this is the same reason that Ellia became the creature she became. The Queen really didn't say anything when they came up to her. She just growled and tossed Lorne around. I would have hoped for some ending words on her part. With such an evil Queen, they didn't give her many lines. :(

The DOS thing was great. The porn-I mean MUSIC thing was great, but I don't think Ronon knew what porn was so I don't think it would have mattered any.

MarshAngel
July 15th, 2006, 07:28 AM
Weir and Landry appear to be pretty chummy with each other now, something which wasn't the case the last time we saw them together a year ago. I guess they must have had regular contact since then and gotten to know each other better or something.

I think their relationship has improved significantly now that he's no longer a goa'uld. I hear getting rid of the parasite works wonders for one's personality and friendships. ;)


- First appearance of Woolsey (and first mention of the IOA) in an Atlantis episode. Interesting that he would appear on both shows this week. I guess TPTB are trying to increase his presence in the SG-verse.

I'm glad they included him. It's past time the IOA started sticking their nose into Atlantis business. I've been surprised there hasn't been more pressure on Atlantis to deliver the goods especially after they said they were comitted to supporting the Atlantis expedition.
Besides, he's a great actor. It's nice seeing him. I only hope they don't waste his potential by turning him into a complete SGC fanboy. They do a good job but they aren't perfect and should be called on it when they screw up.

I was so pleased about Weir getting called on her choices. It was also good to see her finally get some lines worth saying. I only wish the the IOA had put up a better fight. They clearly have no kinsey in them. There were a few other things, however petty, they could have called her on, to make their case against her a little more sound.
I wish it came across a little clearer that she questioned her own decisions a little more, on a personal level, rather than patting herself on the back for her decisiveness.

Ltcolshepjumper
July 15th, 2006, 07:37 AM
I think their relationship has improved significantly now that he's no longer a goa'uld. I hear getting rid of the parasite works wonders for one's personality and friendships. ;)

I'm glad they included him. It's past time the IOA started sticking their nose into Atlantis business. I've been surprised there hasn't been more pressure on Atlantis to deliver the goods especially after they said they were comitted to supporting the Atlantis expedition.
Besides, he's a great actor. It's nice seeing him. I only hope they don't waste his potential by turning him into a complete SGC fanboy. They do a good job but they aren't perfect and should be called on it when they screw up.

I was so pleased about Weir getting called on her choices. It was also good to see her finally get some lines worth saying. I only wish the the IOA had put up a better fight. They clearly have no kinsey in them. There were a few other things, however petty, they could have called her on, to make their case against her a little more sound.
I wish it came across a little clearer that she questioned her own decisions a little more, on a personal level, rather than patting herself on the back for her decisiveness.

It was Col. Caldwell, not Gen. Landry that was a Goauld.:sheppard:

MarshAngel
July 15th, 2006, 07:46 AM
It was Col. Caldwell, not Gen. Landry that was a Goauld.:sheppard:

Oops. Guess I just had Caldwell on my mind before...not the first time. Clearly I need to read a little more carefully.

ToasterOnFire
July 15th, 2006, 07:58 AM
Random thoughts:

-Weir and Teyla interacting and working together? Teyla calling Weir by her first name and showing support when Elizabeth has to leave? Teyla completely comfortable being in charge of Atlantis? Awesome. That made the entire ep for me. This is the kind of interaction that I've been wanting between them since day one. I can only hope that this is an indication of more to come. :)

-Great scene betweeen Weir and Teyla and Caldwell in the beginning - I started to get nervous that Caldwell and the Deddy weren't going to make it out. Of course, once the team came on board I knew they were going to be safe and sound. ;)

-I enjoyed the scenes with Weir and the IOA much more than last season's fight in Intruder. I also appreciated that Landry and Woolsey supported her. However, I thought Landry's support was somewhat odd, considering the last time they were together in Intruder he was ready to go over her head about Shep. I assume there was a change of heart or reconcilliation - too bad that wasn't shown between then and now.

-Bye, bye Orion. Don't care that much for all those spaceships anyway.

-Interesting camera work for the hive ship. At times it looked like they dialed down the saturation so low that everyone was practically in black and white.

-As to why the retrovirus worked on the male wraith but not the female - I'd guess it's either the presence of much more of their equivalent of estrogen or much less testosterone in the females. Or something to do with their equivalent of the Y chromosome.

-I thought the scenes with Ronon and Rodney trapped in the Hive ship went on too long. I actually started getting annoyed with McKay - and I have a high threshold for him!

-While I appreciated the cafeteria scene showing that Shep, Zelenka, and McKay do spend offtime together, I thought Shep's actions were unnecessary. Not the end of the world, just that it detracted IMO.

-Michael was great, much better than in Allies, and the makeup was far superior in this one compared to that peachy crap. It will be interesting to see which way he leans, and whether or not the team are still too trusting of others.

vpk
July 15th, 2006, 08:01 AM
Very good use of first names in this episode. E. g. when Elisabeth said Steven instead of Col. Caldwell. It shows that they finally got over their initial disagreements.
It was also nice that they mentioned some events from SG-1 for instance the Ori ships that may very well be on their way. The Mk II Naquadah generators was also a nice hint and clearly shows that the writers are trying to be consistant.

ShadowMaat
July 15th, 2006, 08:04 AM
LOVED Lorne, of course. Loved seeing Lorne and Zelenka working together, too. And although the major's command may have been all too brief, he DID manage to take out a Wraith hiveship all on his own.

The action was... standard. No real surprises. I do wish some of the ship designs would be more noticeably different because in some of the close-in action, I wasn't sure which ship was which. Use different colored metals or something. But I'm probably in the minority on that score. *shrug*

I no longer like Rodney. I think I laughed once, but for the most part I was gritting my teeth. It grieves me to see his character whining continuously and never changing the tune of his "We're gonna die" song. Part of it may be in his character's make-up, but it's a trait that gets ridiculously overplayed, IMO, and whereas McKay used to be my favorite character on the show and one of my primary reasons for tuning in, now I tend to cringe when I see him. I hate that. Grow up, writers, and let McKay grow up, too.

I've been giving a lot of thought to the Weir Issue and trying to decide why I dislike her when Jack has pulled some of the same tricks on SG-1. I think the heart of it is that I trusted Jack right from the beginning. I may not always have enjoyed his attitude, but I always trusted him as a commander. He made solid decisions, he made more right decisions than wrong, and he 'fessed up or snarked off when he made a mistake. Weir, on the other hand... I've never had a strong sense of competence from her and her character is written so inconsistently (IMO) that it's hard for me to get a real sense of her. I've got bits and pieces, but all it adds up to is uncertainty and a tendency to question every decision she makes. Jack inspired confidence; Weir doesn't. Jack could have waltzed in and snarked off at all those bureaucrats and gotten away with it, but from Weir... I understand that she's supposed to be the Good Commander Annoyed at the Petty Bickering Keeping Her Away from a Critical Situation, but what I get is that she's rude and abrupt and terribly inconvenienced by these people questioning her command abilities. She showed no remorse. I think that's the worst thing. Other than the one matter-of-fact "oh yeah I screwed up" moment with Landry (which came off as insincere), I had no real sense that she cared about her mistakes, that she was sorry that they happened and that she was hellbent and determined not to let it happen again. It's all my interpretation, of course, but it bothered me. And even if she shows remorse in the next ep, that's too late. She wasn't contrite when she should have been and I'm not going to buy the "blustering anger to cover up inner insecurities" angle, either. It just bugged me, plain and simple. And it's indicative of how I feel about her character as a whole.

The flashback of Shep ogling the girl in the mess hall was irritating. It was meant to be clever and funny and to show that Shep realizes that gosh, maybe he should pay more attention to what's being said than fantasizing about some random chick, but does anyone really believe he's gonna change his act? Plus the whole thing came across as overly clever and kinda hammy. It was the writer's equivalent of "wink-wink, nudge-nudge" and it was too heavy-handed. More like a sucker punch than a nudge.

Michael, at least, looked good this time around. The makeup job on Trinneer is MUCH better than it was on Brent Stait.

As a whole, though, I liked the ep. It had some logical faults and some things that annoyed me, but I liked more than I disliked. It was a great relief to see the characters acting as if they had brains in their heads and it made a nice change from a majority of last season. I only wish I could believe these signs of intelligence would last.

It was definitely worth tuning in just to see Lorne in command- however briefly- and his scene on the hiveship was great, too. Overconfidence and trying to be a gentleman almost got him killed. LOL! And then his snark to McKay's "Oh yeah, BTW" comment about Wraith queen immunity. And I liked his scenes with Zelenka- including grabbing him to keep him from running away as the ship's getting destroyed. In fact, I wish we could have gotten some more of that. Lorne and the Orion were treated as too much of an afterthought for my tastes. There's a big scene with Weir and Caldwell and discussing the unsuitability of the Daedalus to face battle and the implication that it's a suicide mission and all that drama, but the Orion was even less ready than the Daedalus and Lorne never even beamed down to discuss what was going to happen... or that he and his crew might wind up just as dead. I know there are time constraints, but it made it seem as if the Orion was less important than the Daedalus when, IMO, it should have been more important. It's an Ancient warship, for pity's sake! Let's see folks acknowledge that!

It was also nice to see Capt. Kleinman get out from behind the console of the Daedalus and trot around the ship a bit. Another cutie added to the mix never hurts. :D

The ep was good, but it doesn't change my opinion about the rest of the upcoming season. Premieres generally tend to be among the best eps (particularly if it's a Gero ep), it's all the stuff in the middle where things tend to go bad.

Anyway, it's good to see Lorne (and Zelenka, too) getting into the action. I'll always tune in to see that. http://www.pushupstairs.com/images/emoticon/neptune/Animated/Romance/romance007.gif

Claudia
July 15th, 2006, 08:08 AM
I really enjoyed this episode, not so much because of the action (actually, I'm not unhappy about the demise of the Orion - and if the Daedalus is out for repairs for a long time even better because that would mean having ATL essentially relying on their own abilities again) but because of the characterization and -interaction.

As much as I liked Weir focusing on what's important at the beginning, that *she* has to remind *Caldwell* that the time for mourning would come later seems a bit odd. I'd expect a high ranking military officer to keep his eyes on what's important right now. But Weir's interaction with Teyla and Landry was perfect - and nearly perfect as well was her meeting with the IOA. "Nearly" because although she finally admits to making huge mistakes, she's once again hanging the threat to resign over the committee... reminds me of her always threatening Caldwell to run to the VIPs supporting the ATL-project, and that gets kind of old. On the other hand, she at last owns up to her poor decisions concerning Michael - granted, hindsight is always 20/20, but in this case, a bit of careful considering all the options, the setting of the experiment and the negotiations with the queen really should have had her alarm bells up and running. But as much as I liked those scenes, they seemed kind of disjointed seeing that most of the ATL crew is currently in battle. I mean, the timing of the IOA really, really sucks. But I guess, that was the whole point.

It was good to see Rodney teamed up with Ronon for a change. I thought that Ronon had a pretty good handle on our favourite whiny scientist - and I definitely liked those "You'll think of something"-lines. I'm not too fond of Ronon but in this episode I actually liked him, not only in his interaction with Rodney, but also his reaction to Michael and his deference to Sheppard's judgment. McKay's lines as usual were hilarious, the spyware and DOS-references... *That*'s why I love this show!

Sheppard's interaction with Michael was another one of the many highlights of the episode. I sure hope we'll see more of Michael and the reason why he defected - I mean, there's being unhappy with the way things proceed on the hive, and then there's actively helping the Wraiths' enemies and the people who turned you into something you didn't want to become -, in the few episodes we've had with him so far he's certainly become one of the more interesting characters, definitely way more interesting than super!Ford ever was. Sheppard's lines were of top quality as well, the walk in the park-one and the little nod to Star Wars being the most memorable ones. And let's not forget that lunch flashback - as much as I dislike kirky moments, I thought that moment of flirting was so in character for him... as was McKay and Zelenka's arguing about another science problem during their free time. Wonderful scene!

I enjoyed to see the 2 2IC, Lorne and Zelenka, take over the Orion - and I really would have loved to see Radek figuring out a way to save the ship... just for his sake, not for the Orion's sake as I already mentioned above. It was also good to see both of them slip back into their roles as 2IC and let Sheppard and McKay take over again. The little dialogue between Lorne and McKay right at the end of the episode on the Wraith ship also shows how far these 2 characters have come since their first quite hostile interaction in "Runner".

I'm already looking forward to what happens with the now human Wraith, if the queen's dead and, generally, how they're going to get out of the mess of being stuck between the galaxies. And I'm hoping to see Beckett next week, he was sorely missed. I kind of figured he'd be on the Daedalus or the Orion since that is where his abilities would be needed most, so hopefully I'll be proven right in "Misbegotten"... another week until then, though... *sighs

And BTW, could anyone please tell me what Ronon says to Sheppard when he told them about latching onto the hull... Sheppard replied to Ronon's remark with "I saw it in a movie once".

Mainer82
July 15th, 2006, 08:18 AM
lol


Mckay: It must have been some kind of spyware, ugh, just like when i used to download porn...MUSIC! When I used to download music!


haha mckay was great in this episode!


also, why do the wraith refer to micheal as micheal? how do they know that name?
Heh, I caught that too. ;)

I was hoping the Orion would stay... I'd love to see Atlantis' docks full with ships some day.

GateLadyM
July 15th, 2006, 08:27 AM
Very nice episode for the season opener.

Wonderful to see Weir get some good, meaty scenes so Torri H. can show what a good actress she really is. She is second in the credits so why doesn't she have more to do? Hopefully we will see more expansion of her character this year. Loved her interaction with Landry.

Interestingly the characters I found most interesting were are recurring people, not the regs. The whole McKay/Ronon wandering the ship, and Shep sitting in his fighter were the weak points. Scenes involving Caldwell, Lorne and Zelenka were the attention grabbers.

Nice surprise to see Weir and Teyla being supportive of each other in the beginning (though it was too short). Their relationship as leaders and friends has been grossly ignored by the writers the first two years, to the detriment of both characters. I hope they continue to have quality scenes with these two strong women sharing strengths, fears, friendship.

Many think Shep's flirty scene was hysterical but I was just irritated. The womanizing is old and is not the behavior an officer in this situation would engage in. Hopefully we've seen the last of it.

ShadowMaat
July 15th, 2006, 08:39 AM
As for the other Wraith calling Michael by his "human" name, I assume it came up when he was telling them about what happened to him and either they use it derisively to remind him what happened and keep him separate for the others or he insisted on being called Michael, perhaps to remind/warn himself about what happened... or because he was more corrupted by humanity than he likes to admit. ;)

CalmStorm
July 15th, 2006, 08:46 AM
Quick observations:

Overall a nice episode. Weir was exceptional, showing how good a leader she is, defending herself on Earth. Kudos to Torri for bringing life and fire to this character!

Most everyone was excellent, especially Caldwell. Good to see Lorne. McKay getting rattled on the Wraith ship and Zelenka flustered on the Orion. Those two are so much alike! *Hugs them both*

One part I especially liked was seeing Weir and Teyla working in the beginning and Teyla showing her concern when Weir had to return to Earth. Little scenes like this should have been occurring since the beginning - showing these two leaders supporting each other. It was nice to see, short as it was.

The downside? Shep's kirking cr*p continues. The writers may think this is funny, but they don't realize just how much this turns off a lot of fans.


I agree completely with this entire post!

Loved that they finally showed a good Weir and Teyla moment. It looks like Teyla is the one in charge and that speaks volumes in the amount of trust Weir has in her. Also, I think this is the first time we ave heard Teyla call Weir by her first name.

Also loved Weir back on Earth. I think this shows why she is a good leader. She had the entire situation completely sized up. She made her decisions and stood by them. She knew that in hindsight some of her decisions were not the best ones, but was capable of saying so.....and bringing up the fact that they were judging her using hindsight. Also, it was good to see that she was calling them on what they were doing....which was avoiding making a decision so that they could point the finger at Weir for any failures.

I was a little suprised by Caldwell's hesitance at going after the wraith. I was a bit dissappointed too that the the Orion was destroyed, but I guess I'd rather lose a ship as a show of loss than lose a main cast or a good recurring regular. I honestly thought for a moment that we were going to lose Lorne and Zelenka.

I could have done without Shep eyeing the pretty little girl. You would think after all the backlash about Shep's kirking they would have cut this part out...or at least cut the girl out of the scene and made it look like Shep was staring out in space. I think, for me, what bothers me the most about this behavior of his is the way in which he is looking these women up and down as if they were a piece of meat for him to enjoy.

GateLadyM
July 15th, 2006, 08:52 AM
The Queen could have been using the name Michael as an insult, to remind him how "different" he was to them.

I didn't care for Michael in the previous episodes, but I did like him tonight. The character has had some rather interesting development in the short time we've seen him and while I've never been a Trinneer fan he did quite a nice job conveying conflicting emotions under all that makeup. It will be interesting to see where the writers take him.

ShadowMaat
July 15th, 2006, 08:53 AM
I could have done without Shep eyeing the pretty little girl. You would think after all the backlash about Shep's kirking they would have cut this part out...or at least cut the girl out of the scene and made it look like Shep was staring out in space. I think, for me, what bothers me the most about this behavior of his is the way in which he is looking these women up and down as if they were a piece of meat for him to enjoy.
But women are pieces of meat for him to enjoy. Obviously. [/sarcasm] :rolleyes: And that scene was an unsubtle way for TPTB to show they know how unhappy some fans are with the kirking and probably to poke fun at it.

Pocus
July 15th, 2006, 08:59 AM
And BTW, could anyone please tell me what Ronon says to Sheppard when he told them about latching onto the hull... Sheppard replied to Ronon's remark with "I saw it in a movie once".

I think it has to do with Star Wars Empire Strikes Back. Han Solo attaches the Millenium Falcon to an Empire ship to escape notice and then floats away when they release trash.

I think this is even funnier because some people have compared Joe Flannigan to a young Harrison Ford/Han Solo.

keshou
July 15th, 2006, 09:01 AM
I really enjoyed this episode. :D :D

* Shep's predicament - being a fly stuck on the outside of the hive ship - was interesting and I enjoyed the way he talked to himself and worked thru his options. I think Martin thru in that "Shep distracted by the hot chick" scene just to yank the chain of the anti-Kirkers. ;)

* Ronon and McKay were an interesting duo, although I admit I'd like to see McKay whining a little less now that we're into the third season.

* Lorne! Zelenka! That was a treat.

* Mitch Pileggi is always fun to watch

* Weir. Well, I admit I didn't see all of her scenes but I thought she was making some tough calls and acting like a real leader in this one. Does she inspire as much confidence as Jack? No. But I think she's come a long way from S1. I liked Landry quoting Churchill to her in one of the better scenes in the show. Might try Teddy Roosevelt next time: "In any moment of decision the best thing you can do is the right thing, the next best thing is the wrong thing, and the worst thing you can do is nothing. "

*MICHAEL. "Michael" was one of my favorite episodes last season so I'm delighted to see Connor Trineer return to this role. I look forward to seeing his character some more.

*Good action and space battles.

Teyla didn't have much to do but at least she seemed quietly competent at taking over for Weir. Hope we get more scenes between these two. :)

So all in all, a good start to the season.

Lt.Colonel John Sheppard
July 15th, 2006, 09:02 AM
well i noticed one similar scene in No Man's Land where Sheppard took over as pilot for the daedalus reminded me of the Mitchell trying to get carter into the odyessey through the hangar bay scene.

Claudia
July 15th, 2006, 09:08 AM
I think it has to do with Star Wars Empire Strikes Back. Han Solo attaches the Millenium Falcon to an Empire ship to escape notice and then floats away when they release trash.

I think this is even funnier because some people have compared Joe Flannigan to a young Harrison Ford/Han Solo.

Yes, I got the reference to Star Wars - loved that, as I love every reference to other TV-series or movies. *g*

I just would like to know what Ronon said in that dialogue... I only got "... move" - nice move? Witty move?

Lt.Colonel John Sheppard
July 15th, 2006, 09:22 AM
Yeah That whole "Strapped the F-302 to the wraith ship hull" thing was so copied outta of The Empire Strikes back and Sheppard's like after ronan said Nice move" he says something like "i got that outta of a movie" which means Empire Strikes back.

freyr's mother
July 15th, 2006, 09:24 AM
Yeah That whole "Strapped the F-302 to the wraith ship hull" thing was so copied outta of The Empire Strikes back and Sheppard's like after ronan said Nice move" he says something like "i got that outta of a movie" which means Empire Strikes back.
At least he gave credit to the movie.

Lt.Colonel John Sheppard
July 15th, 2006, 09:27 AM
At least he gave credit to the movie.


yeah he did so freyr which one did you like: No Man's Land or Flesh and Blood?

freyr's mother
July 15th, 2006, 09:28 AM
yeah he did so freyr which one did you like: No Man's Land or Flesh and Blood?
No Man's Land. Why do you ask?

CalmStorm
July 15th, 2006, 09:31 AM
But women are pieces of meat for him to enjoy. Obviously. [/sarcasm] :rolleyes: And that scene was an unsubtle way for TPTB to show they know how unhappy some fans are with the kirking and probably to poke fun at it.

That's kind of how I felt. I also feel like they were taking a stab at the kirking issue with their commercial leading up to Season 3. The one where Shep is helping a guy in a pool hall to "go get the girl".

Lt.Colonel John Sheppard
July 15th, 2006, 09:34 AM
i liked both of them equally freyr so getting your opinion.

Annubis' hitman
July 15th, 2006, 09:44 AM
Ok i truthfully believe that this episode has saved the entire series and here are my reasons.

1.The wraith destroyed the orion.
Yes Yes the orion let out a wave of drones and destroyed one hive ship, but then with limited power for the shields and the engines the 2nd wraith hive ship destroyed the orion. I think this is good for the show bc we cant just have some uber-space ship that kicks butt all of the time. It ruins the whole underdog scenrio. Also it shows that wraith tech is advanced enough to destroy ancient tech.( I do note that the orion was not close to 100% during the battle and its shields and weapons were severly weaked b4 the battle even started) I guess what im trying to say is that even though the orion wasnt at full battle strength the wraith still destroyed it making them seem like a formidable enemy again.

2. When the the wraith engaged the daedelus the daedelus' shields could stand up to wraith fire that long. Also we fired all of our nukes at the wraith ship and it barely took much damage. It shows the wraith tech is very advanced. The only reason the daedelus survived is bc the orion took the fire from both hives until it got destroyed.

3. The wraith upgraded the hyperdrive technology fairly quickly with the use of the aurora plans. This and their jamming codes show that they can upgrade their technology very very fast and counter anything we throw at them.



I guess what im trying to say is that this last episode proved that the wraith are still a serious threat and not weak as last season portrayed them to be.



The wraith rock.
:wraith32: :wraithqueen17: :wraithanime11: :wraith34: :wraithqueen10: :wraith37: :wraith:

Ltcolshepjumper
July 15th, 2006, 09:49 AM
Now all they have to do is to make the Wraith last longer when shot. They die too quickly. It should take at least two rounds to kill them, maybe a full magazine. Beckett did say that they were hard to kill.:sheppard:

ussrelativity
July 15th, 2006, 09:50 AM
I definetely think that this will also help in the ratings and put us into a very excellent position to help guarantee a fourth season. Let's all keep watching if we can and help bring as many people as possible into the fold.

birdieey
July 15th, 2006, 09:51 AM
Jack inspired confidence; Weir doesn't. Jack could have waltzed in and snarked off at all those bureaucrats and gotten away with it, but from Weir... I understand that she's supposed to be the Good Commander Annoyed at the Petty Bickering Keeping Her Away from a Critical Situation, but what I get is that she's rude and abrupt and terribly inconvenienced by these people questioning her command abilities. She showed no remorse. I think that's the worst thing. Other than the one matter-of-fact "oh yeah I screwed up" moment with Landry (which came off as insincere), I had no real sense that she cared about her mistakes, that she was sorry that they happened and that she was hellbent and determined not to let it happen again. It's all my interpretation, of course, but it bothered me. And even if she shows remorse in the next ep, that's too late. She wasn't contrite when she should have been and I'm not going to buy the "blustering anger to cover up inner insecurities" angle, either. It just bugged me, plain and simple. And it's indicative of how I feel about her character as a whole.


Exactly!


As for the rest of the epsidode... meh. To me it felt like more of the same, which apparently for most people was great. Not so much for me, I never really bought any of the tension. It's really hard to create a believable sense of doom on a show like this where it's unlikely that they are going to suddenly lose a main character or kill of half the crew.

- The wraith ship suddenly disappeared into hyperspace, don't worry Sheppard was able to land and dock undetected on the hull.

- There's no way for Sheppard to stop the ships from reaching earth, don't worry Michael will get snubbed by his queen and fellow bredren and in a hissy fit change sides.

"You mean you planned on deceiving the humans and going to earth where there will be a smorgasborg of food to eat and little resistance without telling me?! I'm going to my room!!" (stomps off)

- Sheppard attacks the hive ship(s?) and a fleet of Darts launch to...capture him safely and return him unharmed to the ship?!

- The Orion is about to be destroyed? No problem beam the crew to the Daedalus.

- One hive ship has been destroyed, hooray! But there is still one left and we are out of nukes. No problem, cause Michael who is seemingly no longer trusted by his people has been able to access the jamming codes of the ship, so just beam him Sheppard, and Ronan and Rodney (who are now free cause Ronan always had a hidden knife on him) aboard the Daedalus and fire away.

- The Daedalus has actually been hit pretty badly and is running out of air? No problem we'll just nuke the wraith ship with the virus and take it over, nothing like the foul stench of organic ship and decomposing humans to keep you from passing out.

Not once in the episode did something that was supposed to seem dangerous and or life threatening (or IMO exciting) turn out to be; which can be fine in a mid-season episode, but this is the Season Opener, after a season finale that was supposed to make us squirm, point in shock and sleep with light on (okay maybe that's just me, the Queens outfit really spooked me).

I didn't really love Season 2's opener either, but I thought it played out a lot better then this. All the jokes had been told before, Sheppard's, McKay's, Zelenka. (Though I loved the DOS joke) And everyone seems to be really impressed by the drone attack which is cool, personally I wasn't in love, and it was over way too quick.

The one thing I can say I absolutely loved about this episode is the faint (extremely faint) possiblity that with the "impending" destruction of the Daedalus, it is possible that SGA will once again be "physically" cut off from earth. Woo Hoo!

Here hoping,

Major Tyler
July 15th, 2006, 09:58 AM
It was also nice to see Capt. Kleinman get out from behind the console of the Daedalus and trot around the ship a bit.Who's Captain Kleinman?

ShadowMaat
July 15th, 2006, 10:24 AM
Who's Captain Kleinman?
He's Caldwell's right-hand man, the one who's always saying cheery things like, "Shields at 20%!" ;) The name may not be right since it's never been spoken, but that's how IMDB lists it (not that they're a paragon of accuracy).

You can find pics of him on his thunk thread (http://forum.gateworld.net/showthread.php?t=20712). :D

CalmStorm
July 15th, 2006, 10:27 AM
He's Caldwell's right-hand man, the one who's always saying cheery things like, "Shields at 20%!" ;) The name may not be right since it's never been spoken, but that's how IMDB lists it (not that they're a paragon of accuracy).

You can find pics of him on his thunk thread (http://forum.gateworld.net/showthread.php?t=20712). :D

He can also be found in Gateworld's Omnipedia
http://www.gateworld.net/omnipedia/characters/links/kleinmandave.shtml

ShadowMaat
July 15th, 2006, 10:34 AM
Hmm... according to that he's only a second lieutenant. Ah well, he's cute at any rank. :P

Adrius
July 15th, 2006, 10:36 AM
3. The wraith upgraded the hyperdrive technology fairly quickly with the use of the aurora plans. This and their jamming codes show that they can upgrade their technology very very fast and counter anything we throw at them.

I was put under the strong impression that the schematics they sent down jacked the aurora mission logs almost immediately and incorporated a much more powerful hyperdrive into their schematics, thereby tricking McKay into upgrading their engines.

mburrows
July 15th, 2006, 10:42 AM
they killed off ANOTHER one of our ships...so, we had a fleet of 1(prommy), then 2 when the daedy came, then we were back to 1 when the prommy died, the ody came, back to 2, then we got the orion, 3, korolev, 4, lost the korolev the same episode we got it which is insane, so, back to 3 for a few days maybe, then well, now we are back to 2 with teh destruction of one of our most powerful ships!:mckay:

Major Tyler
July 15th, 2006, 11:01 AM
He's Caldwell's right-hand man, the one who's always saying cheery things like, "Shields at 20%!" ;) The name may not be right since it's never been spoken, but that's how IMDB lists it (not that they're a paragon of accuracy).Is that the guy that Caldwell calls "Weaps?" I figured it was short for "Weapons Officer" but I was beginning to wonder if it was his name. :P

Black Panther
July 15th, 2006, 11:14 AM
- There's no way for Sheppard to stop the ships from reaching earth, don't worry Michael will get snubbed by his queen and fellow bredren and in a hissy fit change sides.

"You mean you planned on deceiving the humans and going to earth where there will be a smorgasborg of food to eat and little resistance without telling me?! I'm going to my room!!" (stomps off)
Actually he did it to save his life. The queen informed him she was only keeping him alive, for now, because he may still prove useful. Michael brought it up when he was trying to convince John to trust him. He said something to the effect that he doesn't have much more time and he would prefer to live.

I personally think it is illogical to hate someone for things they had no control over. I guess this is where prejudice comes in. They hate humans enough and/or think humans are so below them that they are willing to despise one of their own and kill him for being turned into one. On the upside Michael had a legitimate reason for switching sides. I know personally, my people or not, if they were going to kill me for something that wasn't my fault I would switch sides too.

Ltcolshepjumper
July 15th, 2006, 11:23 AM
they killed off ANOTHER one of our ships...so, we had a fleet of 1(prommy), then 2 when the daedy came, then we were back to 1 when the prommy died, the ody came, back to 2, then we got the orion, 3, korolev, 4, lost the korolev the same episode we got it which is insane, so, back to 3 for a few days maybe, then well, now we are back to 2 with teh destruction of one of our most powerful ships!:mckay:

We're down to 1. I doubt the Daedalus can be repaired. If it can it will take a while. None of our ships have been damaged like the Daedalus, save the Orion, Prometheus, and the Korolev. It could take at least a year to repair it. It has two gaping holes in it with no oxygen. they had to abandon ship.:sheppard:

Tomcatter
July 15th, 2006, 11:27 AM
Fan-freakin'-tastic is all I have to say. Martin Gero, you never cease to amaze me. :) Everything was superb, from the script, the storyline, the humor, the effects. I really enjoyed Weir's b-story as well. Usually I'm not a fan of the political beats, but this one was great.

The only thing I was upset about, like a lot of people, was the Orion going poof. :( But the two shows obviously can't have a giant fleet of warships or else every problem would be too easy to get ouf of.

MinOs
July 15th, 2006, 11:38 AM
Did the Asgard (Bassir) get transfered to Wraith ship also?

Ltcolshepjumper
July 15th, 2006, 11:39 AM
You mean Hermiod? Im sure he did.:sheppard:

prion
July 15th, 2006, 11:41 AM
Fan-freakin'-tastic is all I have to say. Martin Gero, you never cease to amaze me. :) Everything was superb, from the script, the storyline, the humor, the effects. I really enjoyed Weir's b-story as well. Usually I'm not a fan of the political beats, but this one was great.

The only thing I was upset about, like a lot of people, was the Orion going poof. :( But the two shows obviously can't have a giant fleet of warships or else every problem would be too easy to get ouf of.

I sorta blinked and almost missed it. One minute there, gone the next, but the Orion was a brand new shiny toy that would havae been great for the SGA folk to have, but.... I'd rather them not have that kind of advantage. Takes away the fun of watching them struggle to survive.

And yes, Weir was GREAT!

MinOs
July 15th, 2006, 11:42 AM
You mean Hermiod? Im sure he did.:sheppard:

ah, i am mixed up. :o

ShadowMaat
July 15th, 2006, 11:45 AM
Do you think they're gonna try that "You were all captured by the Wraith but we freed you, sorry about the memory loss" bullcrap on the ship full of converted Wraith? Or do you think they'll tell them the truth? If they lie, I hope they come up with something a bit more convincing than the story they fed Michael. "Even though you can't remember a single thing about your life as a human or even any of the trappings of humanity, trust us, you're totally human and not at all Wraiths. Really." :rolleyes:

Blue Banrigh
July 15th, 2006, 11:48 AM
They probably couldn't go for the former cause it'd seem strange if a hundred or so guys (who all look strangely alike, well the hair and fashion sense anyway) had the same affliction.

I'm just wondering who Michael is going to have for lunch tomorrow.

Ltcolshepjumper
July 15th, 2006, 11:51 AM
Do you think they're gonna try that "You were all captured by the Wraith but we freed you, sorry about the memory loss" bullcrap on the ship full of converted Wraith? Or do you think they'll tell them the truth? If they lie, I hope they come up with something a bit more convincing than the story they fed Michael. "Even though you can't remember a single thing about your life as a human or even any of the trappings of humanity, trust us, you're totally human and not at all Wraiths. Really." :rolleyes:

The story they fed Michael was dry. They should have come up with something like this: "You were captured by the Wraith and turned into one of them.":mckay:

bluealien
July 15th, 2006, 11:58 AM
Overall a very enjoyable episode. Good action and some lovely banter between the characters.

Sheppard was the hightlight for me and had most of the best lines and as usual Joe delivers them perfectly.

McKay was a bit irritating and went a bit overboard with the whinning but I still enjoy his character. Zelenka,Caldwell and Lorne were great and I love the fact that Teyla in now in charge of Atlantis. Hopefully we will see her play a bigger role in next weeks episode and not just stand around behind Weir looking like she needed to be told what to do. I really hate the way Teyla gets left in the background while she is the one that has the most experience with the Wraith.

My disappointment in Weir continues. Her whole confession about having made a mistake was so insincere and her attitude to being questioned about her command abilities was almost like they had no right to question her about the awful decisons she has made so far. She was rude and petty and really didn't admit to any wrong doing. She just snaps at them and they back down like wusses. And when did Landry become such a supporter of Weir. Well it looks like Weir can do whatever she likes and will never really be accountable.

Michael was also great in this episode. Great to see Connor Trinneer back again and I hope he gets a reacurring role this season. Looking forward to part 2.

Lt.Colonel John Sheppard
July 15th, 2006, 12:07 PM
you mean Part 3 here how it goes

Allies, Part 1
No Man's Land, Part 2
Misbegotten, Part 3

Ltcolshepjumper
July 15th, 2006, 12:09 PM
Overall a very enjoyable episode. Good action and some lovely banter between the characters.

Sheppard was the hightlight for me and had most of the best lines and as usual Joe delivers them perfectly.

McKay was a bit irritating and went a bit overboard with the whinning but I still enjoy his character. Zelenka,Caldwell and Lorne were great and I love the fact that Teyla in now in charge of Atlantis. Hopefully we will see her play a bigger role in next weeks episode and not just stand around behind Weir looking like she needed to be told what to do. I really hate the way Teyla gets left in the background while she is the one that has the most experience with the Wraith.

My disappointment in Weir continues. Her whole confession about having made a mistake was so insincere and her attitude to being questioned about her command abilities was almost like they had no right to question her about the awful decisons she has made so far. She was rude and petty and really didn't admit to any wrong doing. She just snaps at them and they back down like wusses. And when did Landry become such a supporter of Weir. Well it looks like Weir can do whatever she likes and will never really be accountable.

Michael was also great in this episode. Great to see Connor Trinneer back again and I hope he gets a reacurring role this season. Looking forward to part 2.

I also didnt like the way she spoke to Caldwell. It was as if she thought he didnt even try, as if she didnt care how badly the Daedalus was damaged. She snapped at him as if she had the authority over him, which she didnt. he wasn't her subordinate.:sheppard:

kmwhite
July 15th, 2006, 12:24 PM
I also didnt like the way she spoke to Caldwell. It was as if she thought he didnt even try, as if she didnt care how badly the Daedalus was damaged. She snapped at him as if she had the authority over him, which she didnt. he wasn't her subordinate.:sheppard:

I don't know about that. Sure, she could have used more tact, but when she delivered the line about them getting to the uber-feeding grounds of earth, you sort of saw a look in his eyes of "Yeah... I don't want to do this either, but we have to...."

rarocks24
July 15th, 2006, 12:30 PM
The Queen could have been using the name Michael as an insult, to remind him how "different" he was to them.

It sure had a sting in it.

rarocks24
July 15th, 2006, 12:32 PM
Did the Asgard (Bassir) get transfered to Wraith ship also?
Huh? The Asgard on the Daedalus is named Hermiod. Kvasir (pronounced Vasir) is on the Odyssey.

ToasterOnFire
July 15th, 2006, 12:34 PM
Do you think they're gonna try that "You were all captured by the Wraith but we freed you, sorry about the memory loss" bullcrap on the ship full of converted Wraith? Or do you think they'll tell them the truth? If they lie, I hope they come up with something a bit more convincing than the story they fed Michael. "Even though you can't remember a single thing about your life as a human or even any of the trappings of humanity, trust us, you're totally human and not at all Wraiths. Really." :rolleyes:
I'm not sure, hopefully this will be addressed next ep.

Bigger problem though - I was under the impression that the retroviral therapy was temporary. Michael required numerous treatments on Atlantis to keep him "human" - the wraith on the hive ship only got one dose. Are they going to change back once the retrovirus wears off? Surely the Atlantis team isn't going to foolishly let their guard down this time?

jayeffaar
July 15th, 2006, 12:51 PM
Elizabeth is also quite respectful to him, with all the 'sir' usage. Makes me wonder if Liz is a military brat.

I wouldn't assume too much there. I'm a canadian software engineer with no military background whatsoever and I got to work for several months on a US army base in california years ago. Every time I interacted with a high-ranking US officer, the "sir" came out naturally. I mean, what else are you going to call them? The first name isn't an option and "Mr Landry" is obviously wrong in that context...

Goddess09807
July 15th, 2006, 02:05 PM
I LOVE Elizabeth. LOVE. I like the fact that she didn't let the IOC use her as a scapegoat, especially in light of the fact that they knew and approved of everything that was going on. I also like that she admitted, even if only to herself and Laundry, that she ****ed up. 'Cause she did, and if she wants to move on from that she has to acknowledge her mistakes. Also, her line "I did what they seem to be incapable of doing, I made a decision." really makes me understand her a lot more. Because one of my major gripes was that she was indecisive and lets John influence her too much and I've realized that its because of the world she comes from. She's used to talking and talking, instead of taking action. So I love that good or bad, she made a decision and she's standing by it and accepting responsibilty for her actions.

God bless Rachel Luttrell. Because the writers are seriously ignoring Teyla, but she makes every line, every scene count and I love her for it. Also, leaving Teyla in charge makes a huge amount of sense. Not only does she know how Atlantis is run and she is more than capable, but also she's not under anyones jurisdiction or anything, which means she can ignore orders. In light or Elizabeth being recalled to have her leadership examined that's a very good thin. Also, it makes me yearn for Atlantis as a colony. Additiionally, Teyla called Weir Elizabeth. TWICE! I really like this new direction the writers have taken to make Teyla trusted and apparently to have Teyla and Elizabeth bond. Finally!

Ronon and Rodney were hilarius and personally, I would rather burn than have the wraith feed on me. It is quite sad that I've never watched Star Wars and don't want to, and yet, because of my friends constantly talkig bout it, I knew Shep stole it from Han Solo. John really wants to be Han solo.

Michael. I love Michael and Connor Trineer. I really liked how the other wraith didn't want anything to do with him because he'd been turned into a human. Also, even tho he helped out John, I don't think hes on "our" side, and I really love that and would like to see the writers play with that. Also, yes I do ship Michael/Teyla. So I'm glad that Michael got dewraithified at the end.

Klenotka
July 15th, 2006, 02:14 PM
I liked it. And more suprisingly I liked it even more than Siege 3 which is good sign for me. I haven´t seen SG1 yet because I wanted to see SGA first.
I loved it, especially Lorne and Zelenka :D

And Rodney´s monologue in the cocoon. I know someone thinks it might be little irritating but I think it´s typical McKay´s way how to exept bad things. I am doing the same in crisis-I am talking too much ;)
There were so many nice little things: Teyla calling Weir Elizabeth, Elizabeth calling Caldwell Steve, Lorne calling McKay Rodney...should I continue?
But I have to admit, I didn´t like Elizabeth too much in this one. She really DID mistake, and not only one. Sure, they chose very bad timing but she should had been sorry at least.:S

CalmStorm
July 15th, 2006, 02:24 PM
And Rodney´s monologue in the cocoon. I know somone thinks it might be little irritating but I think it´s typical McKay´s way how to exept bad things. I am doing the same in crisis-I am talking too much ;)

I love McKay, but oddly enough, I really didn't like his scenes in this episode. Some of his rambling was rather funny when they were cocooned, but for the most part, I was rather bored with the scenes that had Ronon trying to break free and him and McKay wondering about the ship.

All the action seem to be outside of them this time around. Shep working with Michael to take out some hive ships, the Daedalus and the Orion trying desparately to make it to the coordinates in time and the ensuing battle, and even Weir going back to Earth and defending her stance. Then there was Ronon and McKay walking in circles on the hive ship until Shep and Michael found them.

Did I miss something, or was Beckett absent from this episode?

telcslovechild
July 15th, 2006, 02:44 PM
I really did like this episode it was no surprise that the orion was gonna go bye-bye it was to good to be true to have an ancient warship im sure we'll find another one as for the hiveship we have that wont last long either im sure that will be gone in the next episode they can use the hive to tow the deadlus back to atlantis and repair it from there

Tracker
July 15th, 2006, 02:49 PM
Did I miss something, or was Beckett absent from this episode?
Huh. You know...I think you're right. Weird.


As for all the whining about McKay's whining...respectfully people..get over it. That's how that character reacts in those situations. Its how McKay has always reacted...nothing new here. Yes, I would like to see him grow a little, but for there to be suddenly no whining...that would be a major deviation from character, and the writers would be getting slammed for that.

And honestly, the guy was stuck in a cocoon, waiting for his planet to be taken over, wondering if he himself is on the lunch menu, and knowing that a lot of this is his fault. Oh, did I mention that for the most part, there wasn't a dang thing he could do to rectify the situation? I'd whine to, if only to keep complete and utter panic at bay.

Traveler Enroute1
July 15th, 2006, 03:07 PM
Fly by post:

I agree with anyone who liked the Elizabeth-Teyla spotlight in this ep. It was a high point here because while Elizabeth is the female in charge of Atlantis and is being called on the carpet by yahoos supposed to be on her side, Teyla is the female at the 'Gate in Liz's place. Way cool! Their rapport was evident, the two actresses played their brief scene for all its worth.

Just sayin', more of them! :weiranime17: :teyla25:

Maybe it will rub off on SG1 with Sam and Vala, hmm? :)

AnonyMouse
July 15th, 2006, 03:10 PM
As for all the whining about McKay's whining...respectfully people..get over it.

Hear, hear. And if you pay attention, McKay's voice is breaking as he chatters while cocooned. He's mortally terrified and talking to keep himself from panicking, not whining, per se. I think the character has had a nice progression. He's trying to deal with the idea that he's responsible for the eventual destruction of Earth, and has a perfectly McKayesque bout of self-absorbed horror. But once given hope, he steps up to bat. He takes charge on the Daedalus, keeps everyone from suffocating to death, and doesn't hesitate for an instant to raise his P-90 and fire on the Queen.

I thought he was pretty kick-ass, really. ;)

Lord Shiva
July 15th, 2006, 03:29 PM
Someone was complaining that the Wraith aren't a credible enemy because the Ori are so powerful.

You've got to realize that the two shows are set in different areas of the universe - each has its own threat. Honestly, had the Ori attacked the Ancients instead of the Wraith, they would have been in even bigger doodoo. But just because the Ori are so overwhelmingly powerful doesn't make the Wraith a bunch of wussies, its more akin to us fighting the Goa'uld as opposed to Ascended Beings. Except the Wraith are nastier then the Goa'uld :P




-While I appreciated the cafeteria scene showing that Shep, Zelenka, and McKay do spend offtime together, I thought Shep's actions were unnecessary. Not the end of the world, just that it detracted IMO.


Huh? What actions were unnecessary? He was looking at a hot woman and not paying attention. I'd probably be doing the exact same thing.

CalmStorm
July 15th, 2006, 03:30 PM
I love McKay's character. As for his whining, it does occasionally grate on my nerves. Overall though I like the character, but I can see why some don't.

Those who are fed up with his whining are no more wrong for being fed up with it than those who love the whining are right for loving it. It's just individual preference and each has the right to voice their love or hate, and defend their position without being told to get over it, or to just accept it. To do either basically ends the conversation and discussion.

Lord Shiva
July 15th, 2006, 03:31 PM
btw, does anyone else want to see Michael become a perminent member of Stargate: Atlantis, maybe even become the first Wraith "good guy" so to speak? I think I'd like it, it would be different, and not the typical "All bad guys are bad guys/all good guys are good guys" thing that's going on.

Traveler Enroute1
July 15th, 2006, 03:58 PM
btw, does anyone else want to see Michael become a perminent member of Stargate: Atlantis, maybe even become the first Wraith "good guy" so to speak? I think I'd like it, it would be different, and not the typical "All bad guys are bad guys/all good guys are good guys" thing that's going on.

I thought of Michael becoming Atlantis' Teal'c,the former baddie now irrevocably on the other side of the battle.

Just sayin', that would leave a bad taste in Ronon's mouth, to say the least!:ronan:

ShadowMaat
July 15th, 2006, 04:06 PM
Beckett is the most invisible main character, ever. In fact, maybe he IS invisible! He's out of phase... Yeah, that must be it. :P

Nothing quite like having a main character who gets even less screen-time and dialogue than secondary and tertiary characters. :rolleyes:

I think Beckett should have been in charge of Atlantis while Elizabeth was gone. He could defer to Teyla and thus show his confidence and trust in her while Teyla gets to show off some of these so-called leadership skills she supposedly has. *sigh*

I liked the ep, I liked the ep, Lorne was wonderful, I liked the ep... *wanders off, muttering under her breath*

Merlin7
July 15th, 2006, 04:18 PM
Huh. You know...I think you're right. Weird.


As for all the whining about McKay's whining...respectfully people..get over it. That's how that character reacts in those situations. Its how McKay has always reacted...nothing new here. Yes, I would like to see him grow a little, but for there to be suddenly no whining...that would be a major deviation from character, and the writers would be getting slammed for that.

And honestly, the guy was stuck in a cocoon, waiting for his planet to be taken over, wondering if he himself is on the lunch menu, and knowing that a lot of this is his fault. Oh, did I mention that for the most part, there wasn't a dang thing he could do to rectify the situation? I'd whine to, if only to keep complete and utter panic at bay.


I don't want to GET OVER his whining, nor do I have too. And it's a sad statement if his not whining OTT was a major deviation from his character.

CalmStorm
July 15th, 2006, 04:20 PM
I think Beckett should have been in charge of Atlantis while Elizabeth was gone. He could defer to Teyla and thus show his confidence and trust in her while Teyla gets to show off some of these so-called leadership skills she supposedly has. *sigh*

I love Beckett, but the thought of him in charge scares the crap out of me. After seeing him in The Storm/The Eye I don't think he is cut-out to be the decision maker in stressful situations. Even if he were to defer to Teyla, I think he would still take too much time to make a call because he would be fretting over all the choices, none of which he would want to make. :)

LaCroix
July 15th, 2006, 04:21 PM
I have to say, I enjoyed this episode far better than SG-1 F&B. It was fast paced, the loss of the Orion. Loved to DOS line from McKay.

Major Tyler
July 15th, 2006, 04:51 PM
Would someone be willing to explain the DOS joke? It made no sense to me. :confused:

freyr's mother
July 15th, 2006, 04:52 PM
Would someone be willing to explain the DOS joke? It made no sense to me. :confused:
You're not the only one. :confused:

rarocks24
July 15th, 2006, 05:01 PM
Would someone be willing to explain the DOS joke? It made no sense to me. :confused:
He's making fun of DOS. DOS is an operating system, partially stolen (actually, given) to Microsoft. Windows 1.0 was considered a GUI for DOS, and down the line. You probably know at least somewhat of what DOS is.

There are some flaws with DOS. Mckay's probably a pro-Linux guy. And almost everybody that's used Linux, likes it, including me. :)

This is probably what Mckay is referring to.


MS-DOS 4.0, released in July 1988, supported disks up to 2GB (note that typical disk sizes were typically 40-60Mb in 1988), and added a full-screen shell called DOSSHELL. Similar or better shells, like Norton Commander and PCShell, already existed in the market. This release had been considered very buggy. On November 1988, Microsoft addressed many bugs in a service release, MS-DOS 4.01.
MS-DOS 5.0, released in April 1991, included the full-screen BASIC interpreter QBasic, which also provided a full-screen text editor (previously, MS-DOS had only line-based text editor), disk cache utility, undelete capabilities, and other improvements. It had severe problems with some disk utilities, fixed later in that year. The fixed version had been called MS-DOS 5.01.

freyr's mother
July 15th, 2006, 05:03 PM
He's making fun of DOS. DOS is an operating system, partially stolen (actually, given) to Microsoft. Windows 1.0 was considered a GUI for DOS, and down the line. You probably know at least somewhat of what DOS is.

There are some flaws with DOS. Mckay's probably a pro-Linux guy. And almost everybody that's used Linux, likes it, including me. :)
Do you mind dumming it down a bit? I forgot what the joke was so if you could remind me that would be great. And what is GUI?

rarocks24
July 15th, 2006, 05:10 PM
Do you mind dumming it down a bit? I forgot what the joke was so if you could remind me that would be great. And what is GUI?
GUI:Graphical User Interface.

It's basically the the interface all Windows, Mac, and Linux users use. ;)

freyr's mother
July 15th, 2006, 05:11 PM
GUI:Graphical User Interface.

It's basically the the interface all Windows, Mac, and Linux users use. ;)
Oh, thanks. And what was the joke rodney made?

IWantToBelieve
July 15th, 2006, 05:11 PM
GUI = graphics user interface

I loved this episode from start to finish. The Elizabeth parts were slower but I think completely necessary, and you can't and shouldn't have 42 minutes worth of blowing stuff up. The second half was fast paced and intense, the obstacles kept changing, keeping it interesting.

The character moments to me were spot on, for all of them, it was very strong episode to kick off season 3. The writing in this was much more solid than what we saw in too many episodes in season 2.

rarocks24
July 15th, 2006, 05:12 PM
Oh, thanks. And what was the joke rodney made?
The joke Rodney made was,


There's nothing to overload, the ships taken so much damage. It's like working with DOS. Trust me, that was hilarious.

freyr's mother
July 15th, 2006, 05:14 PM
The joke Rodney made was,
Thanks, now I get it. Thats' pretty funny.

Jimbo-DR
July 15th, 2006, 05:33 PM
I didn't read the ENTIRE thread, but everybody KNOWS now that the Orion was destroyed, right?

rarocks24
July 15th, 2006, 05:34 PM
I didn't read the ENTIRE thread, but everybody KNOWS now that the Orion was destroyed, right?
Yes, even the people that don't read spoilers and haven't seen it know the Orion has been destroyed (or most by now).

Oka
July 15th, 2006, 05:41 PM
Boring episode. The wraith are just a boring enemy and SG:A really needs to kick their asses and move on. McKay was over-the-top with his whining this episode, felt so contrived. The whole Weir going to Earth part was dumb and something they could've skipped entirely, I wanted to fastforward through it but I couldn't. Weir sucks. Why did they have to blow up Orion? Too many plot holes too, they need to use the asgard beaming technology more. To be continued, YAWN. The SG-1 opener was much better and it wasn't that good.

rarocks24
July 15th, 2006, 05:48 PM
Boring episode. The wraith are just a boring enemy and SG:A really needs to kick their asses and move on. McKay was over-the-top with his whining this episode, felt so contrived. The whole Weir going to Earth part was dumb and something they could've skipped entirely, I wanted to fastforward through it but I couldn't. Weir sucks. Why did they have to blow up Orion? Too many plot holes too, they need to use the asgard beaming technology more. To be continued, YAWN. The SG-1 opener was much better and it wasn't that good.
:rolleyes:

See, you say that you don't like that in a character, but on the other hand, how well would you have handled a situation? I'd start begging for my life. I'd join the Wraith worshippers or something, but I'd definitely be freaking out. Mckay just panicked, like almost 98% of the world's population would.

ToasterOnFire
July 15th, 2006, 06:51 PM
Huh? What actions were unnecessary? He was looking at a hot woman and not paying attention. I'd probably be doing the exact same thing.
IMO, Shep is in danger of turning into a caricature because the writers have focused more on his dalliances with the opposite sex rather than deeper things like his background, family, conflicts with the SGC and Caldwell, how he's dealing with being thrust into a leadership position on Atlantis, etc. I saw the cafeteria scene as just more reinforcement that he's a flirt, hence I thought it was unnecessary. He likes beautiful women and they like him. I get it. I was hammered over the head with it last season. What else can the writers show us?

I'd just like to see the writers work outside of the stereotype box a little more often. For all the characters.

ShadowMaat
July 15th, 2006, 06:55 PM
I love Beckett, but the thought of him in charge scares the crap out of me. After seeing him in The Storm/The Eye I don't think he is cut-out to be the decision maker in stressful situations. Even if he were to defer to Teyla, I think he would still take too much time to make a call because he would be fretting over all the choices, none of which he would want to make. :)
Yeah, I gave it some more thought and realized that was a bad idea. And deferring to Teyla would make it all worse.

But still... WTF was the point of making Paul McGillion a lead actor if he's going to be getting less screen-time than when he was recurring?

Willow'sCat
July 15th, 2006, 06:59 PM
Well, well, well... so they finally decide to call Weir on her mistakes, but of course they are not really her mistakes because she cleared them all with TPTB on Earth, it's just that now TPTB on Earth are getting the fires lit beneath them so they have to make her the bad guy. Yeah I buy that as a way to let her off the hook for being such an inept leader...:cool::rolleyes:

Teyla should have been in this episode more, I guess the next one will make up for that, I did like the interaction between her and Elizabeth, although a little weird given they have been together for 2 years, why so chummy all of a sudden??? TBTP on SGA don't actually listen to fans do they? :eek:

Speaking of which... Sheppard and the girly, well yes he is a guy and a dam attractive one and no doubt being the big man on Atlantis means his libido is set to deathcom 1 6 most of the time :P I still think however that TPTB *Martin??* may have been poking fun at the Anti-Kirking league in fandom. I don't care because as a McKay/Sheppard slasher, he was obviously only doing that to make his geek jealous. :D :p *hides*

Whining end of the World McKay! :cool: Could do without that, I think we all know Rodney has an underlying defeatist attitude, well anything that cannot be solved by him through science cannot be solved. So why the continued "we are all going to die" talk? For giggles I assume, and yeah I did think Ronon calling him on it after they were free was good but it really shouldn't have been quite that long a moan on McKay's part.

With most on the two lines from McKay, Porn and Dos now how geeky McKay alone in a room can we get?! :D Oh and for the person who wondered as to whether Ronon would have got the Porn thing, he has been on Atlantis with Sheppard for a year, he got it. :p

Shippy shippy ships... Aw, we have no ships. How incredibly sad *I don't care* at least we may have a Hive ship. The Teyla/Wraith Queen thing may well be right btw, seems she will fly a ship and she has some Wraith DNA... interesting twist if it happens.

Special effects were pretty good but I am no expert on that it just looked pretty and stuff. *g*

Yay! Zelenka in on the action, and Lorne too being all commandery *that's a word* Pity no Beckett but what would he have done? Caldwell, I have always liked his character, so seeing him willing as he must risk his life and that of his crew for Earth was wonderful and I think also should stop some of the whinging about him trying to remove Weir, he and she obviously have an understanding now. ;)

The Wraith they call 'Michael' well despite his make up he still looks good to me Lol! CT was good, although it must be hard coming into Atlantis again after a break and playing the character in full makeup. I am glad it was more or less Michael that saved them this time not Sheppard, I did say more or less. ;)

McKay, yes I know I have already mentioned him but come on it's McKay! I really thought they over did his "mememe" stance in this eppy, I get McKay is into self preservation but the oxygen thing was unnecessary IMO especially after we already had the 'death talk' earlier on, too much in one episode for one character. As I said we know already we don't need to be force fed it in every episode... less is more.

It seemed to me on the Hive ship McKay was a bit disorientated, which I get but they don't normally show characters being like that, I was glad they did have McKay behaving at a loss *this could have just been in my mind* :S So Ronon has learnt how to handle Rodney, just ignore him and push him in the general direction you want him to go.

I enjoyed the episode, it did offer some changes or hopeful new directions anyway. With Weir still on Earth and Woolsey right by her side *never thought I would see the day* that story arc may prove better then I expected. ;) So we have a Hive ship in our possession which we may be able to use. Yes all in all an interesting episode just wish it didn't have to be a two (three) parter, I hate them.

expendable_crewman
July 15th, 2006, 07:09 PM
IMO, Shep is in danger of turning into a caricature because the writers have focused more on his dalliances with the opposite sex rather than deeper things like his background, family, conflicts with the SGC and Caldwell, how he's dealing with being thrust into a leadership position on Atlantis, etc. I saw the cafeteria scene as just more reinforcement that he's a flirt, hence I thought it was unnecessary. He likes beautiful women and they like him. I get it. I was hammered over the head with it last season. What else can the writers show us?

I'd just like to see the writers work outside of the stereotype box a little more often. For all the characters.I bet if you count them, there are more references to the problem that got him stationed at McMurdo than dalliances, even if one throws in the dalliance from season 1. I do agree, more background on Sheppard would be nice. The reason I'd win the bet is the dalliance thing gets overkill not on screen, but in discussion. I counted three times in two years, which to me says the man doesn't get out much. Maybe it's because he lives in another galaxy.

vaberella
July 15th, 2006, 07:29 PM
Beckett is the most invisible main character, ever. In fact, maybe he IS invisible! He's out of phase... Yeah, that must be it. :P

Nothing quite like having a main character who gets even less screen-time and dialogue than secondary and tertiary characters. :rolleyes:

I think Beckett should have been in charge of Atlantis while Elizabeth was gone. He could defer to Teyla and thus show his confidence and trust in her while Teyla gets to show off some of these so-called leadership skills she supposedly has. *sigh*

I liked the ep, I liked the ep, Lorne was wonderful, I liked the ep... *wanders off, muttering under her breath*

Beckett is not invisible, he just has no purpose in this episode. It's like Ronon and Teyla are main characters, Beckett too, and not one of them was in GUP. I think his has been fleshed out...just not as much as many of the characters. Much like Weir has suffered greatly in her development.

Uh..question? Where is she supposed to show off these leadership skills? She is a leader and she's the most qualified to take over leadership of BOTH the military and scientists while John and Weir are away. She knows of the WRaith and she knows the operations that go on....why? Because she's privy to those details---NOT Carson. So Carson wouldn't be able to fit into those shoes properly and that could be detrimental. Carson is a doctor and as such really brings nothing to this episode. I'd rather him get something juicy and viable than come in to save face and not do much. Although Teyla gives that impression...this leads to a major role in Misbegotten, since she is on the hive ship and probably has to come to the rescue of the guys.

Question...what did Lorne do that was so wonderful?

ShadowMaat
July 15th, 2006, 07:36 PM
Whining end of the World McKay! :cool: Could do without that, I think we all know Rodney has an underlying defeatist attitude, well anything that cannot be solved by him through science cannot be solved. So why the continued "we are all going to die" talk?
The whining "we're all gonna die" stuff gets massively overdone, IMO. It's a shame because Hewlett is a great actor and he doesn't need a heavy crutch like that. He can convey a lot more with a few words and a change of expression than all the senseless babbling McKay spews out in a given scene. They could cut way, WAY back on all the yappy stuff and still have a strong sense of Whiney McKay without him being quite so whiney.

I guess it's too much to hope for that he'll ever grow up, huh? "Part of his character" yeah, but even Daniel went through some changes over the years and still managed to be Daniel. More or less. For a while, anyway. ;)

CalmStorm
July 15th, 2006, 07:39 PM
Question...what did Lorne do that was so wonderful?

Kept his cool :cool:

He has always kept his cool. He can throw in a good joke but maintains complete professionalism and seriousness on a regular basis. He seems to be someone you can count on to give it his all. He can follow orders as well as give them. He knows when to speak and when to stay quite. He plays well with others. He appears to have a good level of intelligence and can be trusted. That's just my take on the character though.

memnarch
July 15th, 2006, 07:47 PM
No Man's Land was an interesting turn, in that it followed with SG1 in showing that the Atlantis team isn't omnipotent and the whole sequence where they're running out of oxygen really brought that home. Albeit, I don't buy that they wouldn't have said to themselves early on, "Hey, there's a disabled Wraith ship right over there! Let's go get some air there." Still, it was great to see the Orion in action. I love the Ancient drones! They're cool and kinda beautiful too. Ronon and McKay's interactions were entertaining, as always, although Ronon's hiding a knife in his boot was rather predictable. He must hide them in every ortifice of his body or something, haha. I agree with some people that Sheppard is becoming a little cliched and that they need to bring him back to his roots and dig into his past. From what we've heard from the producers, this seems likely to happen, so I'm not worried. Michael continues to be one of the most fascinating characters I've seen on Stargate, period! It's just the little things that show both his Wraithness and his Humanness, such as his use of the phrase "good luck" to Sheppard. I doubt very much that Wraith believe in luck, so that must be the human part of him. I liked the Weir on Earth portions. They really showed her as a strong woman and commander, especially when put in situations next to Landry, who I've really come to like by the way. If I have one complaint about this episode it's that the writers seem to continue to not know what to do with Teyla. She wasn't in the season finale except at the beginning and the end and here she had two scenes at most. I really hope they don't phase her out like Ford (who I still hope to see in this season. fingers crossed for the finale!)

Overall I give it a 3/4

Vapor
July 15th, 2006, 07:48 PM
Well, I thought this was pretty good, considering I wasn't all that into the finale last season. I would have been so much happier with a true alliance, rather than the more obvious trap-scenario. But that's another thread...

I have to say, McKay is great, but sometimes his goofiness goes way overboard for me, especially in season two. I seem to recall HUGE, drawn-out scenes of his personality intersecting practically every piece of important dialogue in a scene, and as much as I liked McKay and David Hewlett, it was getting pretty bad for me.

Which is why I loved that his role in this ep did NOT feel apocalyptically overblown, and his usual craziness was reduced basically to a couple funny lines here and there. And I loved them. The "Wings of Imagination" and "Magical Fairy" lines especially had me cracking up for, like, a minute after I heard them.

Ronon kept him in check, which was nice. His role in most "desperate" situations is always fun to watch. Of course, he still sounds like an Earthling, but that's not an affliction he alone suffers from. :)

Speaking of Earth, Weir gets recalled there to talk to some suits. I loved this aspect of the story. Great scene when she is forced to leave immediately and shows concern for Atlantis and entrusts... stuff to Teyla. I like it. Give me more like this.

I've always loved Weir as a character, and it's always fun to see her in situations like this, where her authority/decisions are challenged, and this episode is no exception. Seeing her return to Earth was pretty cool too, especially her interaction with General Nobody. Their combined essence somehow generated a scene that made Weir look reeeally cool as a character in her position.

Meanwhile, space-battles aplenty rage all over the place. The flashback to Shep kirking during the science-talk was cute, but I actually thought he was going to make something of it. Kind of annoying when he didn't, and the whole flash could have been erased with no complication.

I personally don't like Michael's make-up, but he's an interesting character. Fun to see him as an outcast among his own kind, and him helping the others escape and defeat the other Wraith.

The Orion looks like it's gone for good, but I'm actually not that heartbroken over it. If you think about it, a huge part of the episode took place on ships, which is fine, but... yeah, I hope this doesn't become a regular thing. Getting a Hive Ship full of neutered Wraith is kinda cool though.

All in all, the ep was pretty good. The cliffhanger, as non-existant as it was, makes me wonder what Part 2 has in store for us. Oh, and Beckett! Where has he been? I want my Beckett, darnit!

ShadowMaat
July 15th, 2006, 07:58 PM
He has always kept his cool. He can throw in a good joke but maintains complete professionalism and seriousness on a regular basis. He seems to be someone you can count on to give it his all. He can follow orders as well as give them. He knows when to speak and when to stay quite. He plays well with others. He appears to have a good level of intelligence and can be trusted. That's just my take on the character though.
Amen! Lorne fills a hole for me: he's competent and snarky but his snarks are very dry and they don't slow him down. There's none of the cocky attitude or the "look how clever I am when I make this witty comment" vibe I get off Sheppard. Lorne is what I'd want in a lead character, but given how the main characters on Atlantis get treated I'm quite happy to have Lorne stay at recurring status. :P

acdj31
July 15th, 2006, 08:09 PM
Great ep. I like Weir back on Earth standing by her decisions. But I also think that TPTB could have made that part into a whole earth-based ep. It was cool when she said you can overturn my order but you have to fire me first. D**m those IOA people. First the NID trying to take over now, imo the IOA is doing the same thing (on both shows).

Love the part with the drones going around the darts. Just like the SG-1 ep "Lost City", where
the drones move around the Promethus(sp).
REST IN PEACE ORION.

Willow'sCat
July 15th, 2006, 08:12 PM
Question...what did Lorne do that was so wonderful?Um, he was Lorne and he was in the eppy with a speaking part. :p He ducked down very well. :D He is cute. *g*

Amen! Lorne fills a hole for me:Lol! I think Lorne has that biting humour sadly needed in SGA, it should be coming from McKay but alas that isn't gonna happen.


I guess it's too much to hope for that he'll ever grow up, huh? "Part of his character" yeah, but even Daniel went through some changes over the years and still managed to be Daniel. More or less. For a while, anyway.I wish they would stop it and let him be real not a stereotype but then they chop and change him so much anyway, continuity of his character would be nice, either he is growing and becoming more confident with standing and fighting or he isn't but this back and forth is not helpful IMO.

I love Martin's stories for the most part but he often does IMO the Cooper thing of over-stating that McKay is a scaredy cat and a whinger. I suppose because the other characters aren't like that. It must give the writers something different to work with but even DH can't save McKay from being overwritten and overdone. *can I say that*

Give him a gun and some backbone, just don't buff him up Daniel style :cool: I couldn't handle that and not sure DH wants to work out that much anyway. :D

Captain Reynolds
July 15th, 2006, 08:15 PM
I really think it was lame of them to get rid of the Orion. I mean why introduce such a nice powerful shiny toy and blow it up so easily. Especially with Earth under assault from the Ori I'm sure the SGC could have used the Orion just as badly in not more so than atlantis. Have the deadelus there full time and give the SGC the Orion that would have been cool. Anyhow we didn't see the ship blow up so hopefully its just really badly damaged. I hate when new toys get wasted.

Sheppard
July 15th, 2006, 08:19 PM
im about to watch No Man's Land and im glad that i can finally watch it but now i have heard the orion was destroyed i dont want to watch it but i want to see what happens so i am going to watch it and i like that the atlantis team got a hive ship i think that rocks!!! cant wait to see sheppard fly that ship

ShadowMaat
July 15th, 2006, 08:19 PM
Wasted? I dunno, she blew up a whole hiveship before she died and staved off the destruction of the Daedalus, that's not too shabby. I do wish we'd kept her longer, though.

Sheppard
July 15th, 2006, 08:22 PM
Wasted? I dunno, she blew up a whole hiveship before she died and staved off the destruction of the Daedalus, that's not too shabby. I do wish we'd kept her longer, though.

yes well still it could of stayed for a few more episodes

Willow'sCat
July 15th, 2006, 08:23 PM
Which is why I loved that his role in this ep did NOT feel apocalyptically overblown, and his usual craziness was reduced basically to a couple funny lines here and there. And I loved them. The "Wings of Imagination" and "Magical Fairy" lines especially had me cracking up for, like, a minute after I heard them. That part reminded me of The Simpsons when Hommer is having his heart operation, it is not word for word obviously but the way McKay says it had me thinking he had watched one too many Simpsons eps. :D

Jeyla4ever
July 15th, 2006, 10:07 PM
Sorry, couldn't read what everyone wrote in here..but my two cents ....

A bit dissapointing episode....after seeing SG-1 ROCK the HOUSE...this episode was slower and less action, in my opinion...

I did love some of the character moments...

I love Weir...kicking some major butt in SG-1...She should have walked out from the very beginning...I"m not sure why she stuck around for so long..I would have told them to shove it up....

Rodney and Ronon..OH, my I love these two better than Shep/Rodney....it's too funny! I loved the moment when Ronon tugged behind Rodney and kind of moved him along...priceless!

and Weir and Teyla...I was soooo dissapointed that Teyla was not more involved in this episode...but understandable considering the plot!
But it was about time that we had some Weir and Teyla moments...was it me or did you guys notice that Teyla sort of took John's role in standing beside Weir...just goes to show that Weir will have lots of others if Sheppie should ever have to be replaced...now, I"m not saying that at all..I love Shep!
Teyla heading Atlantis while Weir was gone! PRICELESS..and Teyla calling Weir by her first name...shows that these two are getting along more..don't know when it happened, but it did..maybe they were spending more time together considering they thought they lost the boys! LOL

Elizabeth calling Caldwell, STEVEN! Oh...my....but I was a bit concern with her mission to Caldwell..was it me or was she sending him to do whatever it takes to stop the Wraith Hive ship even if it cost him his life..? why did he say, you realize what you are asking me to do? or something like that..or did I misunderstood?

Lorne and Zelenka..my to me those two stole the episode and so did Caldwell! they were fantastic!

Michael..was a bit dissapointing..although considering he did have his own episode last season, I think I can live with his role in this one...

Personally, I didn't care too much for the scenes in SG-1...to me..it takes away from the scenes with our characters in Atlantis...and if we are going to have crossovers...I can see this is going to be the case....the SG-1 will take over our characters in Atlantis...and that is not good in my book!

Now, Sheppard was the least of my favorite...I didn't see him in action...which I love...and I thought he was kind of slow..and what was that bit of the flashback..what are the writers still telling us that he's into women? was that necessary? jeepers...

but hey..whatever makes them happy...I just didn't see the point of it and it took away from more action packed drama!

okay, just my opinion.....hopefully next episode will be better...but I think I'm going to have to wait till Sateda!

LORD MONK
July 15th, 2006, 10:23 PM
Although SG-1 kicked all that but and then some. I am going to say Atlantis did to, just not has much. Although, if you take in the fact that the writers right both shows, did they did one hell of a job and I loved them both. Landy and Weir telling off the IOA the same night....... priceless.
Tayla being in contol. That to me was a big step in her character. That says so much. Not only is she excepted but she is trusted enough to follow orders.
Weir got to show off her leadership. Leading is one but telling someone to go do the impossible because it is the only thing left to do and still doing it................ priceless../ That is something yousee out of a military commander....... Not a Civilian Commander..........

Korean_Turtle87
July 15th, 2006, 10:25 PM
The show has not convinced me that the wraithe are a huge threat to earth. A hive ship might be able to decimate a small village community with medieval technology, but a planet with six billion people, missiles and warheads, and fighter jets reinforced with Asgard technology? I am completely unconvinced that the wraithe would manage to kill more than a few thousand people tops, and yet, the characters talk like they were when Anubis was descending on the planet.well, all the hive ship has to do is barage the outpost til the shields go down which will be pretty quick since its powered by mark 2's. and then there are all those darts which can intercept any nukes launched at the hive ship. if the outpost goes down, earth is pretty much screwed. i don't think they have enough 302's and naquadah enhanced nukes to take on a hive ship with its darts

i really reall liked the episode. too bad the Orion's gone. I hope they can salvage some stuff though. but at least they have a hive ship now.

the battle was amazing. you don't get to see battles this good on a tv series except on stargate. The good ol' doc defended her actions well. and she really did have them for breakfast

Sheppard
July 15th, 2006, 10:53 PM
the battle was awsome i loved it i have watched it atleast 10 times now and i really do hope that they get another atlantian warship because of the orion being destroyed ow well atleast they got something out of it

A HIVE SHIP

KnightCrusader
July 15th, 2006, 11:53 PM
Awesome episode... can't wait to see what happens in Misbegotten. The best part I think is something very minor, but something I have been waiting for since Atlantis started.... some kind of starchart or map of Pegasus to Milky Way. Now I have some idea about how far they are apart and the ratio of the sizes of the galaxies.

Anyone notice the galaxy in the backfround of one scene. I first thought that was the Milky Way, seeing how spiral it was, but according to the map Weir showed Landry and the position of the battle, they were right outside Pegasus. So that must have been Pegasus. I thought Daniel said Pegasus was a dwarf galaxy, not a spiral. Is this another CG goof? Hmmm.... it was still a nice shot, nonetheless.

Knight

Easter Lily
July 16th, 2006, 12:46 AM
Gero seems to be on top of his game here and it shows... I'm not sure if my expectations were incredibly low before watching but I really enjoyed it. It's Stargate at its best... loads of fun and good-humoured dialogue. Not the first time I was glad that I've avoided all spoilers and speculation. It does much to enhance the viewing experience.

The thing I like best about it was that it was a team episode... everyone was involved doing their thing to extricate themselves out of difficult situations. Some very good acting by Torri Higginson and Mitch Pileggi, IMO. I almost didn't even mind the little kirkin' moment as it was done in a somewhat self-deprecating way by JF. Yeah, pay attention fella... you never know when a convo between two of the brightest scientists on Atlantis can come in handy. :P

And even though I groaned at the end when the "To be continued" line appeared on the screen... I rejoiced a little... I'm glad they're taking their time with the story to give us more continuity!

mathwizard
July 16th, 2006, 12:53 AM
Anyone notice the galaxy in the backfround of one scene. I first thought that was the Milky Way, seeing how spiral it was, but according to the map Weir showed Landry and the position of the battle, they were right outside Pegasus. So that must have been Pegasus. I thought Daniel said Pegasus was a dwarf galaxy, not a spiral. Is this another CG goof? Hmmm.... it was still a nice shot, nonetheless.

Knight

"Dwarf" galaxy refers to its size: it's small and usually orbiting larger galaxy. "Spiral" galaxy refers to its shape. So a dwarf galaxy can be spiral, elliptical or irregular. But then I thought pegasus dwarf is irregular...

Sheppard
July 16th, 2006, 12:55 AM
yeah they took their time making them but it was worth it

Cory Holmes
July 16th, 2006, 01:47 AM
I'm wondering if the writers are using this episode as a reason to remove the Daedalus as the A-Team's supply ship? A lot of the fan talk about how much better S1 was due to the fronter-type attitude and the feeling of being on their own; perhaps the writers noticed this are giving that back.

Of course, it's just as possible that the Big D is going to be fully repaired by the next episode with no explanations at all, so we'll just have to wait and see.

Cory Holmes
July 16th, 2006, 01:50 AM
"Dwarf" galaxy refers to its size: it's small and usually orbiting larger galaxy. "Spiral" galaxy refers to its shape. So a dwarf galaxy can be spiral, elliptical or irregular. But then I thought pegasus dwarf is irregular...

It could also be that they were at the edge of the Pegasus galaxy and were looking at the Milky Way, though I don't know how big a 100,000 LY galaxy would be when viewed from 3.5 Million LY...

Willow'sCat
July 16th, 2006, 01:56 AM
I almost didn't even mind the little kirkin' moment as it was done in a somewhat self-deprecating way by JF. Yeah, pay attention fella... you never know when a convo between two of the brightest scientists on Atlantis can come in handy.On re-watching; that was quite funny, he really is just zoning out of a very important conversation. Lol!

And even though I groaned at the end when the "To be continued" line appeared on the screen... I rejoiced a little... I'm glad they're taking their time with the story to give us more continuity!Yes I agree, they did need two episodes at least to tell this, so even though it annoyed me this should mean a story with more depth now, we have had the shoot 'em up part ;) now we need a little more explanation, and
Beckett in the chair! Apparently.

bluealien
July 16th, 2006, 02:12 AM
Sorry, couldn't read what everyone wrote in here..but my two cents ....



Michael..was a bit dissapointing..although considering he did have his own episode last season, I think I can live with his role in this one...

I lliked Michael here and thought he did a geat job. I hope to see him in a reacurring role.


Personally, I didn't care too much for the scenes in SG-1...to me..it takes away from the scenes with our characters in Atlantis...and if we are going to have crossovers...I can see this is going to be the case....the SG-1 will take over our characters in Atlantis...and that is not good in my book!

The SG1 characters didn't seem to take over but I didn't like the constant back and forth to the SG1 scenes - to me it took away from the great action scenes.


Now, Sheppard was the least of my favorite...I didn't see him in action...which I love...and I thought he was kind of slow..and what was that bit of the flashback..what are the writers still telling us that he's into women? was that necessary? jeepers...

Sheppard was the nightlight for me - he had some fantastic one liners and Joe delivered them perfectly. He was in the middle of the action form the beginning and I'm not sure what you mean by him being slow. He was alone stranded on a hive ship and needed a bit of time to come up with a plan. The flashback scene to me was priceless and I really don't get why this scene seems to bother some people. What is the big deal with Shepp
admiring a pretty woman - that is who he is - he is a charmer and a bit of a flirt. Rodney is arrogant and a whinner - that is who Rodney is - but I love them both and wouldn't want either of them to change.


but hey..whatever makes them happy...I just didn't see the point of it and it took away from more action packed drama!

It didn't take away from the action scene for me at all. I loved it. The whole idea of the flashback was to show us that John was bored and distracted by Rodney and Radeks conversation but little did he know that it would come in useful in the future. But as I mentioned above for me the constant back and forth between the action and SG1 was a bit distracting.

Sheppard
July 16th, 2006, 02:34 AM
the hive wont last long

McDork
July 16th, 2006, 02:50 AM
Finally saw the episode, and i was impressed.

The fire fight was superb, im glad Caldwell is finally using the Daedalus at its fully potential.

Loved the Rodney/Ronon banter, Rodney in mortal peril always leads to fun.

I also loved Zelenka being on the Orion, but i dont think he would (although necessary) of given up so fast. Hes too much like McKay. Lorne in command of the Orion was awesome, i love him in so many ways. However much i love Sheppard, i cant help feeling Lorne is everything Sheppard isnt, and that Lorne would be a better military leader for Atlantis. Dont lynch me though. Im just saying. I still have Sheppard love.

Sheppard was funny in this episode, had some great lines, they were well delivered. It nice to see him put his feelings for Michael aside and accept the help. I loved the flashback.. it was great, seems Shep should pay more attention next time :D

Weir was great.. but i couldnt help wanting to smack her around the head when she technically ordered Caldwell and his crew to their deaths. Surely she knew it wouldnt end well with that much damage to Daedalus.

I loved how she called him Steven, also how Teyla called her Elizabeth, and finally how Lorne called McKay, Rodney, just shows how well they have gotten to know each other.

Im sad at losing the Orion.. but i guess it was inevitable. We never get to keep new toys long.

Loved Michael, i hope he stays around for a while, but with Ronon around i dont see it happening any time soon.

and, finally.. Where the hell was Beckett? I know there wasnt much for him to do with the episode plot.. but COME ON, hes a credited cast member now and hes vanished.. Carson had more air time when he was recurring. Zelenka seems to get more air time than Carson now-a-days. :mad:

Jonzey
July 16th, 2006, 03:13 AM
I didn't have a problem with Shep making eyes with that girl in the flashback. Trust me, every single guy in the world has done that at some point- let their mind wander and see a pretty girl.

Sheppard
July 16th, 2006, 03:42 AM
what McDork said about carson dissapering and Zelinka appering so much its good for Zelinka but i hate how he speaks russian i just hate it

McDork
July 16th, 2006, 04:05 AM
i hate how he speaks russian i just hate it

He doesnt speak Russian.. he speaks Czech :P and usually its just the bad words :D.. ohh Zelenka how i love thee :zelenka25:

Sheppard
July 16th, 2006, 04:19 AM
what about hermiat he always swears in asguard language

dosed150
July 16th, 2006, 05:19 AM
2. When the the wraith engaged the daedelus the daedelus' shields could stand up to wraith fire that long. Also we fired all of our nukes at the wraith ship and it barely took much damage. It shows the wraith tech is very advanced. The only reason the daedelus survived is bc the orion took the fire from both hives until it got destroyed.


im sure caldwell said they only had 3 nukes and it looked like only one detonated i think that big blue detonation was a nuke the orange ones where just normal missiles

Klenotka
July 16th, 2006, 05:42 AM
what McDork said about carson dissapering and Zelinka appering so much its good for Zelinka but i hate how he speaks russian i just hate it

It´s Zelenka, not Zelinka! And he is Czech, not Russian! Can you please finally remember that?:( Sorry, that´s the little patriot in me:rolleyes:


i cant help feeling Lorne is everything Sheppard isnt, and that Lorne would be a better military leader for Atlantis. Dont lynch me though. Im just saying.

I agree. I hope they will do with Shep something this season. Be just "cool" isn´t enough for me.:S

ladysarah
July 16th, 2006, 05:51 AM
I mostly liked this episode.

I really am interested to see what they are going to do with the Wraith. It might be make or break with me in terms of this show.

I loved Rodney and his whining. It's his coping mechanism, a relief valve under extreme stress, and it amuses me.

Still don't like Elizabeth (sorry TPTB, you have to a helluva lot better then that). But Teyla is pretty, and I like her.

John's flirting. Can be annoying, I can see that, also amusing. But please, give us a couple of more episodes free of the kirking! Please.

I keep wondering if Sheppard has some type of 'issue' when it comes to flirting. I mean, he flirts, but ....

Yeah. Looking forward to next week.

expendable_crewman
July 16th, 2006, 06:01 AM
what about hermiat he always swears in asguard languageHe does, doesn't he? And very well, I might add.

Coming off a season 1 marathon, I must say I was unsettled to see a Wraith working with them. I've seen season 2 front and back and I knew it was coming, but I didn't get what my eyes were telling me. When Michael said to use the gas, I thought, "What perfect evil." He'd do to his former crew what was done to him. Gets the hive ship, which extends life for Michael and everyone else. Yeah, a plus. Also gives Wraith crewmates a taste of what it's like to be outcast from Wraith culture forever. Which is better than dead. I'm just saying. I don't trust him but I like him. Want to see more of him.

For some reason, I really enjoyed Lorne heading over to Zekenka, saying, "You're killing me here," before they got those drones off.

I want an extra chair on the bridge of the Daedalus for the military hotshot they inevitably beam off some exploding or imploding craft, so the hotshot doesn't end up holding onto the back of Caldwell's chair in the middle of battle.

I know they have to keep the camera on Caldwell so we can see him say important things like, "Ready all missile batteries. Ready all rail guns," etc. I'm guessing that to keep Lorne (or Sheppard, usually Sheppard) in the shot, they have to move everybody into the same space. Add a chair!

The galaxy shot in the background took away my breath. I felt like they really were between two galaxies.

I checked out the time close to the end and saw, crap, we were going to get TBC-ed. I liked it, though. I'm all calmed down now that the hiatus is over. I can wait.

SG1 and SGA openers were great. There was a lull in SG1, during which I got distracted, and took care of an errand. I didn't finish the ep until I re-watched it on VHS. Glad I did. It was really good. SGA had me behinning to end. I swear, it was that Michael thing. A Wraith on the bridge of the Daedalus talking strategy, in full Wraith costume, bad teeth, the warbly Wraith voice, the whole nine yards. Probably had that slit on his hand just aching for a little fulfillment. A hit to the senses for me. Wasn't prepared. You know how it goes ... Too awful to watch, but I couldn't look away. Excellent ep, Star Wars reference and all.

McDork
July 16th, 2006, 06:13 AM
I want an extra chair on the bridge of the Daedalus for the military hotshot they inevitably beam off some exploding or imploding craft, so the hotshot doesn't end up holding onto the back of Caldwell's chair in the middle of battle.

I know they have to keep the camera on Caldwell so we can see him say important things like, "Ready all missile batteries. Ready all rail guns," etc. I'm guessing that to keep Lorne (or Sheppard, usually Sheppard) in the shot, they have to move everybody into the same space. Add a chair!

Haha, they really need to add another chair.. or 3. But, i must admit, i find it hilarious watching them trying to keep their balance, and putting bets on with random family members on who will fall. I was extremely amused to see Zelenka on the floor of the Orion.

Its seems im easily amused. :D

Unamed
July 16th, 2006, 06:32 AM
this episode was great, there was so much in it.
at first i thought the shep landing on the hive was a cheap rip off but the fact he says later on i seen it in a movie completely justifies it.
Seeing the orion in action is something ive been waiting for a long time now and it was glorious, she opened up and desimated the hive, my face just burt into a masssive grin unpon seeing this.
However i was completely shocked to see the orion actually get desstroyed, i thought it was only gonna get badly damaged but sure i guess it was for the best, plot-wise that is.
the deadalus...... amazing we actually got to see an earth ship do damage and not only damage but kick ass, the rail guns to the dart bay was great never will i slag them again. and the 302's were brilliant too killing the darts.
all in all i was trilled with this ep i love to see our side go all out like they did and kick ass

ShadowMaat
July 16th, 2006, 06:45 AM
what McDork said about carson dissapering and Zelinka appering so much its good for Zelinka but i hate how he speaks russian i just hate it

what about hermiat he always swears in asguard language
Do you have some issue with folks speaking foreign languages? I think it adds to the characters to have them occasionally slip into their native languages instead of speaking English all the time. It makes it seem more natural/realistic because it's something that real people would do.

It isn't as if Zelenka (or Hermiod for that matter) are native speakers of English spouting off in some completely random language just because they know no one will understand them. English is a learned language for them, much as learnig Spanish (or Czech) is for English speakers. And when you get frustrated or worried or whatever, what are you going to do? Stick to carefully enunciating a clunky language in an attempt to express yourself? Or revert to your native tongue so you can the full stereoscopic effect of whatever it is you want to say?

The guy speaking Hermiod's part may not be a native speaker of the Asgard language, but David Nykl (who plays Zelenka) is Czech, so he does know the language.

And if you're just mad 'cos you can't understand what they're saying: Welcome to Gateworld. There's a translation thread for Zelenka (http://forum.gateworld.net/showthread.php?t=7643) and there's a translations thread for Hermiod (http://forum.gateworld.net/showthread.php?t=14236). Both are good, friendly threads.

And kudos for Atlantis for showing us that the expedition is multinational.

Sheppard
July 16th, 2006, 07:52 AM
Do you have some issue with folks speaking foreign languages? I think it adds to the characters to have them occasionally slip into their native languages instead of speaking English all the time. It makes it seem more natural/realistic because it's something that real people would do.

It isn't as if Zelenka (or Hermiod for that matter) are native speakers of English spouting off in some completely random language just because they know no one will understand them. English is a learned language for them, much as learnig Spanish (or Czech) is for English speakers. And when you get frustrated or worried or whatever, what are you going to do? Stick to carefully enunciating a clunky language in an attempt to express yourself? Or revert to your native tongue so you can the full stereoscopic effect of whatever it is you want to say?

The guy speaking Hermiod's part may not be a native speaker of the Asgard language, but David Nykl (who plays Zelenka) is Czech, so he does know the language.

And if you're just mad 'cos you can't understand what they're saying: Welcome to Gateworld. There's a translation thread for Zelenka (http://forum.gateworld.net/showthread.php?t=7643) and there's a translations thread for Hermiod (http://forum.gateworld.net/showthread.php?t=14236). Both are good, friendly threads.

And kudos for Atlantis for showing us that the expedition is multinational.

i dont have a problem with it its just funny

Major Tyler
July 16th, 2006, 07:57 AM
i dont have a problem with it its just funnyYour words indicate otherwise.
i hate how he speaks russian i just hate it

Sheppard
July 16th, 2006, 08:11 AM
Your words indicate otherwise.

well ops my mistake

FoolishPleasure
July 16th, 2006, 08:13 AM
Lorne and Zelenka..my to me those two stole the episode and so did Caldwell! they were fantastic!
I agree, these three made the show. I wouldn't mind seeing all three as regs.


Now, Sheppard was the least of my favorite...I didn't see him in action...which I love...and I thought he was kind of slow..and what was that bit of the flashback..what are the writers still telling us that he's into women? was that necessary? jeepers...

but hey..whatever makes them happy...I just didn't see the point of it and it took away from more action packed drama!

After watching secondary characters become so interesting, kinda makes one think Sheppard should be recurring.



I didn't have a problem with Shep making eyes with that girl in the flashback. Trust me, every single guy in the world has done that at some point- let their mind wander and see a pretty girl.

The problem is that it happens all the time. Go back and watch all of season 2. Shep tends to lick lips and talk to boobs in almost every episode. Now go watch SG1 where we have several hot, single guys who take their jobs seriously and behave like the mature officers they are.

I want to know MORE about John Sheppard, not how many girls he can hit on in a season. I hope that isn't what TPTB consider "character development".

GreyFox
July 16th, 2006, 09:31 AM
i loved mckay's dos comment. pure gold.


shep's ESB reference was awesome

tony
July 16th, 2006, 09:54 AM
I loved when the deady came out of hyperspace and you saw like 15-20 nukes shoot then see the darts blowing most of them up! and then BOOM we see a crazy explosion and the ship gets a banging :P that was awesome! and I really liked when it shot its rail guns at the dart landing bay area they beat the crap out of that ship

CalmStorm
July 16th, 2006, 10:01 AM
Just another little note I forgot to add.....I loved the way the crossover was handled in this episode. I actually even like Landry better after seeing him interact with Weir. Walter was there and the same IOA actors were present. It wasn't like some of the other "crossovers" where there is just one character from the other episode and basically an empty SGC.

Perhaps what I liked best about this crossover was that it did not seem like a forced crossover either for the sake of a crossover or a ratings stunt. It actually fit very nicely with the story.

rarocks24
July 16th, 2006, 10:20 AM
Agreed. But we'll see how the other crossovers do. I kind of expected it to happen, though.

Mattathias2.0
July 16th, 2006, 11:07 AM
I enjoyed this episode, but it lacked something. The McKay comments were cool, esp. the DOS one!

I had a sense the Queen would betray Michael from Allies, given the way Michael spoke to Teyla and Ronan, he seemed trying to make peace with everyone and I thought he was trying to be sincere, but he's still a Wraith. The Queen, on the other hand, would not give much information and seemed withdrawn, which means she had an agenda. I knew that before viewing this episode.

It's unfortunate the Orion was destroyed.

I enjoyed Dr. Weir going to Earth and having to explain herself to the IOA (Woolsey, Xiaoyui, Chapman). Given the events of Allies, this had to be expected.

My complete opinion is not made up because "To be continued" so the story is not finished for Dr. Weir on Earth, or the Team in Pegasus.

Speaking of which, I am confused about use of ZPM power correlating to Dr. Weir going thru the Stargate to Earth. I thought they were suppose to conserve enengy? I don't understand how it was allowed esp if they require the ZPM for the Outpost on Earth.

Mattathias

derrickh
July 16th, 2006, 01:59 PM
50% of this ep was good. The battle scenes were excellent and showed a great use of tactics and strategy. One of the high points for me was when Shepard and Micheal came back on board with a plan to win, but Caldwell already had his own plan, and it worked. It was great to see the guy in charge actually be effective instead of always having one of the heroes take over. The Orion did a great job, and i think, given maybe another few hours of repairs, could have been a huge asset to atlantis. This leads me to the bad parts of the show.

Once again Weir proves she has no business in charge of a military operation. Someone explain to me why she is still giving orders when the situation clearly requires a military leader? She sent out 2 heavily damaged ships to chase after the hives. Those were Atlantis' 2 biggest defense platforms. It's insane to risk both for only 2 hives when there are a hundred more hive ships out there as a threat to the city.

Does anyone here think those 2 ships posed a real threat to Earth? Earth is a fortress now in the SG Universe. Theres not much, short of the Ori, that can hang with us. Hell, An asgard crusier or a Jaffa Hatak could defend Earth from those things. But no, Weir has to be overly dramatic.

The IOA had a great plan. Just send a ZPM through the gate and power up the defense chair. The Orion showed that the drones were very effective. Instead of killing possibly hundreds of crew, a simple gate transfer would have done the job.

BTW, if Teyla is going to be left in charge (giving an alien command instead of qualified SGA members), the least she could do is get in a uniform. I dont now about most people, but I'd have a hard time taking my boss seriously if she was wearing a belly shirt. (unless I worked in a strip club).

D

verbalkint
July 16th, 2006, 02:19 PM
Behold! It's


PIGGY'S USELESS OPINION
of 'No Man's Land'

Good ep, but what's with the "To Be Continued" at the end? "I think we're out of the woods" doesn't exactly make for a great cliffhanger. :) I think it would have been just as well to end on a fade out without it saying "To Be Continued", but maybe that's just me.

The character of Michael is an interesting one. Even though he's fully a Wraith again, he took our side in the fight and helped the good guys beat the Wraith. Pretty drastic. I wonder what's gonna happen to him.

Random Observations!
- Lots and lots of action in this episode. Pretty good stuff, too.
- As far as I can tell, the opening credits sequence is left unchanged since last season.
- This is the first season of any of the Stargate series not to have any changes made to the regular cast (compared to the preceding season) since the franchise moved to SciFi.
- Weir and Landry appear to be pretty chummy with each other now, something which wasn't the case the last time we saw them together a year ago. I guess they must have had regular contact since then and gotten to know each other better or something.
- This is Weir's second visit to Earth since she first left for Atlantis with the expedition.
- I was expecting Ronan to distrust Michael, and it's no wonder that he hates the Wraith, but why did he specify that he hated Michael especially? Was there some conflict between those two that goes beyond his hatred for the Wraith that I don't remember?
- First mention of the Ori in an Atlantis episode.
- First appearance of Woolsey (and first mention of the IOA) in an Atlantis episode. Interesting that he would appear on both shows this week. I guess TPTB are trying to increase his presence in the SG-verse.
- So the Wraith-to-human gas doesn't work on females... Why?

Yeah... Good ep.


http://photobucket.com/albums/v413/uglypig/thumbsup.gif
In regards to Michael, its like he has been hit with the "Point of View" gun from The Hitchhikers guide to the Galaxy and now sees humans as much more than just a food source though he also acknowledges that he feeds not because he wants to but because he needs to in order to continue living. I look for Michael to lead a group of transformed wraith in an attempt to create their own space in the universe trying to live peacefully on a couple of planets feeding only as much as necessary.

verbalkint
July 16th, 2006, 02:34 PM
50% of this ep was good. The battle scenes were excellent and showed a great use of tactics and strategy. One of the high points for me was when Shepard and Micheal came back on board with a plan to win, but Caldwell already had his own plan, and it worked. It was great to see the guy in charge actually be effective instead of always having one of the heroes take over. The Orion did a great job, and i think, given maybe another few hours of repairs, could have been a huge asset to atlantis. This leads me to the bad parts of the show.

Once again Weir proves she has no business in charge of a military operation. Someone explain to me why she is still giving orders when the situation clearly requires a military leader? She sent out 2 heavily damaged ships to chase after the hives. Those were Atlantis' 2 biggest defense platforms. It's insane to risk both for only 2 hives when there are a hundred more hive ships out there as a threat to the city.

Does anyone here think those 2 ships posed a real threat to Earth? Earth is a fortress now in the SG Universe. Theres not much, short of the Ori, that can hang with us. Hell, An asgard crusier or a Jaffa Hatak could defend Earth from those things. But no, Weir has to be overly dramatic.

The IOA had a great plan. Just send a ZPM through the gate and power up the defense chair. The Orion showed that the drones were very effective. Instead of killing possibly hundreds of crew, a simple gate transfer would have done the job.

BTW, if Teyla is going to be left in charge (giving an alien command instead of qualified SGA members), the least she could do is get in a uniform. I dont now about most people, but I'd have a hard time taking my boss seriously if she was wearing a belly shirt. (unless I worked in a strip club).

D
A couple of points first the IOA had a "plan" but you forgot to mention when it was time to make a decision the IOA needed "further discussion on the matter". Classic politicians talking big but can't make a decision to save their life. Secondly, yes a couple of gouald hataks or a single asgard o'neill class ship would have whooped the wraith quite easily but the Ori incursion of the MW galaxy have left no available assistance possible. Teyla may be wearing a "belly shirt" as you call it but keep in mind Atlantis is housed by almost all scientists and Teyla can beat Shep in hand to hand combat and i'm sure almost anyone else who would try her on that base. They know she is a fierce warrior and have earned all of their respect.

CalmStorm
July 16th, 2006, 02:35 PM
After viewing this episode, I hope that Michael can shed some light on the wraith culture and their hierarchy.

They were very quick to exile Michael and the way the queen talked to him made me really wonder how they operate. She talked to him like he was trash and only around because he may prove useful. So one of their own made it back from an unbelievable circumstance and is bascially poked fun of and ostracized by the collective.

Michael then became interested in self-preservation. Is it because his time as a human gave him a new perspective or was this always his nature? Is it that he witnessed one human culture first hand and perhaps now sees things in a different light? Michael showed that he was concerned for his life and was willing to help Shep and company destroy the hive ships in order to really save himself. Yet, in The Siege we saw what appeared to be a very willing suicide bombing attempt by the wraith darts into the city of Atlantis. Wraith darts intercepted missles in a suicide attempt to protect their hive ships in this same episode and we saw them do it again in this episode. What value do they place on life, and why are some willing to take these suicide missions? Are they trained for it? Do they place the value of the lives of the other wraith above themselves....or the value of the collective? The queen seemed completely unconcerned about Michael. The queens other little sidekick, the one that was escorting Shep, seemed a bit reluctant to go to her and ask if she had given Michael the order to interrogate Shep.

Sorry for the rambling. It's just that this episode raised a bunch of questions for me. None that I know can be answered that does not involve complete speculation.

HelenT
July 16th, 2006, 02:46 PM
Well, I finally got to watch it. Gave in to temptation and loved it. Sheppard rocked my socks as usual, as did Liz and McKay. The scenes with Michael and Sheppard were brilliant and actually managed to bring me a little Ronon love. The battle scenes were fabulous--no complaints from me at all. Did I say Liz had me grinning from ear to ear, too? You go girl!

I'm still not feeling the Lorne love, he just doesn't grab me and I'm not getting charisma so much as dull.

lirenel
July 16th, 2006, 02:47 PM
I enjoyed this, though I'm not sure I got everything since I hadn't seen Allies. I liked the fact that Sheppard only kinda saved the day, and that it was more of a group effort. McKay was exactly how I expected him to be: scared to death and snarky. And I loved his and Ronon's interactions, I've been wanting to see that for awhile.

Actually, one of my favorite things was when Rodney joined the boarding party with Sheppard and the Marines. It was like in Coup d'tet when McKay went in with the rescue party. It made me happy to see him as part of the team, and in a military situation.

I do not like 'to be continued'. Nope, don't like that at all.

Ace
July 16th, 2006, 04:30 PM
The IOA had a great plan. Just send a ZPM through the gate and power up the defense chair. The Orion showed that the drones were very effective. Instead of killing possibly hundreds of crew, a simple gate transfer would have done the job.

That wasn't the IOA's plan because.... First off, you can't send the ZPM through the gate. You need the ZPM connected to the gate inorder to establish a stable wormhole.

The IOA's plan was to load it up on the Daedalus and ship it here, which would have taken 3 weeks. They could have plugged it into the ship and gotten there in 4 days but at the expense of using alot of the ZPM's energy.

It wouldn't have worked...

Ace

Smo
July 16th, 2006, 04:39 PM
[QUOTE=HelenT]Well, I finally got to watch it.QUOTE]
Yep, me to :D
Im glad i won the fight and didnt read any spoilers :)
episode was fast and full of action - in one word- cool :D loved that scene with rocket attack from Daedy and the the feeling theyre doomed...i was really affraid theyre goin to kill of Daedy and Caldwell this time...happy they didnt do it :D

jayeffaar
July 16th, 2006, 05:07 PM
Once again Weir proves she has no business in charge of a military operation. Someone explain to me why she is still giving orders when the situation clearly requires a military leader? She sent out 2 heavily damaged ships to chase after the hives. Those were Atlantis' 2 biggest defense platforms. It's insane to risk both for only 2 hives when there are a hundred more hive ships out there as a threat to the city.

2 Hives that were heading straight for Earth, which was currently defenseless because of the Ori situation. No Goa'uld or Asgard ships were available.The threat to the city was nothing compared to the threat to Earth, and if it took loosing two ships AND Atlantis to save Earth, so be it.

Adrius
July 16th, 2006, 05:46 PM
The story they fed Michael was dry. They should have come up with something like this: "You were captured by the Wraith and turned into one of them.":mckay:That would have been a really, really good idea. "Ya we need to give you these injections so you don't turn back, and the security is following you around just in case, and Ronon hates the Wraith so excuse him please."

entil2001
July 16th, 2006, 05:52 PM
Watching this episode, I couldn’t help but wonder if the writers were being a little defensive. After all, a lot of people felt that the second season finale, “Allies”, had been an example of forcing the story at the expense of the characters. Weir in particular made very bad choices, necessary to allow for a credible threat to Earth. This premiere is meant to deal with that threat, with a subplot defending Weir’s choices. I liked the “A” plot thread well enough, but the “B” plot was all about excuses.

First, focusing on the positive, I missed these characters, and none of my annoyance with the poorly constructed second season took away from that. I still feel that the characters themselves need further definition and some sense of evolution, but that’s an old complaint that I’ve had for the franchise in general. Premieres aren’t the episodes for character evolution, anyway; it’s about reminding the audience of the status quo while hitting the ground running.

I did notice some plot conveniences. It was a little ridiculous for Ronon to still have a weapon available while confined by the Wraith, since one would expect them to check for such things before detaining them. It also seems a little convenient that the repair time for the Daedalus and Orion is just short enough to let them intercept the Wraith hiveships relatively close to Atlantis. And of course, even with Michael’s help, it’s a little hard to believe that Sheppard would survive, especially when it would have been a lot easier to destroy his 302 rather than recover and detain him!

I did like the fact that the survival of the Daedalus’ crew was not a simple matter. In fact, I had no idea that this was a two-part premiere, so I was quite pleased by the prospect of further exploration of the decision to use the gas mentioned in “Allies”. My hope is that this will lead into a formal season arc of some kind. In fact, enough lingering plot threads exist for the writers to put together a few ongoing arcs, which would address one of the main problems of the second season.

Weir’s subplot felt less like a logical progression of the story than a reaction to fan complaints about the logic of “Allies”. On the other hand, if one did lead to the other, I have to admit that the final product could be beneficial to the season as a whole. Caldwell was a good step in terms of putting Weir under a microscope; the IOA should add another level of intrigue. While I completely agree with Weir’s attitude about the IOA, especially after the ninth season of “SG-1”, I think that the situation is a bit more complicated than Weir would like to believe.

Weir and Landry are both in the position to make decisions with massive consequences. So far, Landry has been under fire for a situation that was more or less impossible to prevent or ignore. Weir, on the other hand, made terrible choices in “Allies” and deserved to be questioned about those choices. The Wraith were hardly clever in their little ruse, and Weir should have seen through the enemy. The IOA may like to let Weir hang herself, but the best defense against armchair quarterbacking is victory.

Of course, the upshot is that the intervention of the IOA could complicate the plot enough to suggest a good, solid character arc for Weir. If there are long-term consequences that result from this situation, then Weir could end up under serious political fire as the season marches on. That points to an obvious direction for the season to take, and I hope they do, since it would give the season more cohesion. As it stands, this is a good beginning to what I hope will be a resurgent third season for the series.

(As a sidenote: I also have a podcast associated with my various reviews called “Dispatches from Tuzenor”. Future episodes will highlight “Stargate: Atlantis”, so it might be something of interest . Go to http://entil2001.libsyn.com if you want to listen!)

Jeyla4ever
July 16th, 2006, 06:19 PM
Hi Blue...

well, I do see your point..and I did understand that bit about the flashback with John and the flirting..and how if he had paid attention to the scientist he would have been better off, I just think the writers are throwing it down our throats...just my opinion..and for that particular scene...he could have thought of so many other things that they just had to put that bit...I don't know, it was to me just poorly done...and too obvious that the whole point was to make Sheppard known as a flirt...I"m not sure if I'm making any sense...but that is just my opinion...in the other episodes where he flirts..it flows with the plot of the story more than what did this...I guess that's what I"m saying...

As far as John being slow...yeah, he was not as action packed and not as straight forth as I thought he'd be..on top of that....I thought considering what Michael has done to them TWICE, he led on to him and trusted him AGAIN too quickly, what haven't they learned anything! maybe it's just me, but I just didn't see it as the John that I'm used to seeing....in addition.....I love John's character..too much! but eventhough he was the star and the hero AGAIN in this episode, it just wasn't the same John that I'm used to seeing...I hope that makes some sense....and in a weird way, and kind of me contradicting myself..I'm glad because to me the other characters, the minor ones did much better at thinking and responding than John did...just my opinion...but that in no way shape or form takes John away from my book of still on top of my favorite list! LOL

but, it's okay that we don't see eye to eye....I'm just stating how I saw it! I guess I was expecting more action, more angst from the characters and everything just played out too easy! now, SG-1 was AWESOME!

ADDED bit...did anyone notice that the same guy that was in the ship in SG-1 next to the captain, was the same guy that was in the Deddy....next to Caldwell...forgive me but I'm not good at the correct terms for his title here..and I don't remember the name of the ship in SG-1 either..but it's the only one that survived! LOL

Hubby picked it up...and I was like, how the heck did that guy do that...did they beam him there from one galaxy to the other...? LOL

ShadowMaat
July 16th, 2006, 06:54 PM
ADDED bit...did anyone notice that the same guy that was in the ship in SG-1 next to the captain, was the same guy that was in the Deddy....next to Caldwell...forgive me but I'm not good at the correct terms for his title here..and I don't remember the name of the ship in SG-1 either..but it's the only one that survived! LOL

Hubby picked it up...and I was like, how the heck did that guy do that...did they beam him there from one galaxy to the other...? LOL
I noticed him in the finale last year (caught the last minute or so while waiting for Atlantis) and was a bit... amazed. Is it really the same guy, though? I'll pester David about it. Mr. Omnipedia should know.

Maybe they're TWINS. Oooo, I like that. Double your pleasure... :D

pavaneofstars
July 16th, 2006, 06:58 PM
My thoughts on NML:

Cool battle sequence from Sheppard’s pov. Nice seague from last season. I loved the Star Wars reference with Shep in the 302 on the hull of the hive ship. I turned to my sister with a big grin “Look, Han Solo!” cause I’m also a sw geek. :P I loved Ronon’s comment later on in the ep about this and Sheppard says he saw it in a movie once. lol. :)

I’m liking this “first name basis” First when Teyla calls Elizabeth by her first name and later Elizabeth calls Caldwell by his first name. Should’ve been there maybe last season. Better late than never.

Favorite lines:
McKay: “It’s like when I stupidly downloaded por—music. I downloaded music.” Silly boy! :P

Shep: “Who’s this?”
Michael: “You know me as Michael.”
Shep: “Sorry…I got the wrong number.”

Ronon: “Stop talking.”
McKay: “Ok, you know what? Make me.”

Shep’s comment about it being a walk in the park – with monsters, lol. “Operation ‘This will most likely end badly’ is a go.”

McKay: “Their operating system is a mess. Thank goodness I remember DOS. Trust me, that was hilarious.” Yes it was! :D

Shep’s flashback was fun only for McKay’s reaction “He’s not listening.” It was the way he said it, I thought very funny. Ok, so I’m biased. :P But please not more kirking this season. :rolleyes:

I love this Micahel arc – being turned against by his own species, Yeah I know he’s wraith, but still, the angst! :D So glad Connor Trineer is back! :D And what’s with Ronon and Michael?

It was very cool to see all of those drones launched from the Orion. It’s too bad we lost her. But now we have a Wraith ship that looks like we might lose it in the next ep.

Overall, a great ep! Can’t wait to see the next part. :)

CalmStorm
July 16th, 2006, 07:10 PM
And what’s with Ronon and Michael?

He does seem especially hateful of Michael doesn't he. My guess is that there are several reasons. He was treated as a "guest" in Atlantis, and Ronon probably was none to happy about that. I think he would have preferred a more direct approach with Michael, such as the truth. Moreover, I think Ronon is very protective of Teyla and Michael kidnapped her and nearly fed on her.

Teyla is really the closest thing to family Ronon has at the moment I think. Other than himself, she is the only one on the Atlantis team that is native to the Pegasus Galaxy. They share that common bond of always having lived under the threat of the wraith. Ronon probably has an issue with Michael because he is wraith and because he posed a serious threat to Teyla and was about to feed on her. He also doesn't feel that making a wraith human changes who they are, and he has had a long time to build up a special type of hate for them after being a runner for seven years. His hate toward Michael could be even more deeper because he was made to appear human in form, while remaining wraith in essence.

ShadowMaat
July 16th, 2006, 07:39 PM
ADDED bit...did anyone notice that the same guy that was in the ship in SG-1 next to the captain, was the same guy that was in the Deddy....next to Caldwell...
Did some more investigating and figured out it isn't the same guy.

Marks (http://www.gateworld.net/omnipedia/characters/links/marks.shtml) is the guy on the Odyssey. Kleinman (http://www.gateworld.net/omnipedia/characters/links/kleinmandave.shtml) is on the Daedalus.

See the attached pic. On the left is Marks, on the right is Kleinman. Put right close like that, they don't look as similar, but I did a double-take during that final minute or so of SG-1's finale. ;)

Kleinman is thinner and doesn't get out as much as Marks does. :P Would love to help him with that. :D

(and thanks to stargatecaps.com (http://www.stargatecaps.com) for having the pics to prove it)

verbalkint
July 16th, 2006, 08:00 PM
Beckett is the most invisible main character, ever. In fact, maybe he IS invisible! He's out of phase... Yeah, that must be it. :P

Nothing quite like having a main character who gets even less screen-time and dialogue than secondary and tertiary characters. :rolleyes:

I think Beckett should have been in charge of Atlantis while Elizabeth was gone. He could defer to Teyla and thus show his confidence and trust in her while Teyla gets to show off some of these so-called leadership skills she supposedly has. *sigh*

I liked the ep, I liked the ep, Lorne was wonderful, I liked the ep... *wanders off, muttering under her breath*
Beckett will be FEATURED in the next episode and honestly where could Beckett have played a part in this episode's plot? Beckett is one of my favorite characters but there was no plausible place for him in this episode.

PG15
July 16th, 2006, 08:06 PM
Wow, best episode of the season. ;)

Seriously though, it was an awesome episode, and is easily in my top five, if not top three. It also beats Flesh and Blood for the best premier.

Some random points:

New male Wraith!

Nice Ronan and McKay banter.

Some damn funny Shep lines.

The battle itself took skills to write, since it was so long and yet the tension was kept up throughout.

I'm actually not sad that the Orion got blown up, since it's much more realistic considering what the ship's been through.

More Trip! :D

The realistic nukes; those that were intercepted DID NOT DETONATE, and those that did, well, did detonate in a blinding flash, as it should be.

Weir kicked ass, finally. I haven't seen her like this since New Order.

Nice tactics by the Deady when it fired into the dart bay.

Martin Gero is a God.

Orion's drones! Wow, I cheered when they fired it and sliced up that hive. :D

The only downside of the ep was that we didn't see Andee Frizzel's (Wraith Queen) real face. She's hot in real life. :D

Score: 10



The problem is that it happens all the time.

No different from any other guy. I promise you, I have experience.


Go back and watch all of season 2. Shep tends to lick lips and talk to boobs in almost every episode. Now go watch SG1 where we have several hot, single guys who take their jobs seriously and behave like the mature officers they are.

Well, we already know that Shep is not a regular military man.


Watching this episode, I couldn’t help but wonder if the writers were being a little defensive. After all, a lot of people felt that the second season finale, “Allies”, had been an example of forcing the story at the expense of the characters. Weir in particular made very bad choices, necessary to allow for a credible threat to Earth. This premiere is meant to deal with that threat, with a subplot defending Weir’s choices. I liked the “A” plot thread well enough, but the “B” plot was all about excuses.

Well, the fans wanted Weir to answer for what she did, so why not let them?


I did notice some plot conveniences. It was a little ridiculous for Ronon to still have a weapon available while confined by the Wraith, since one would expect them to check for such things before detaining them.

It actually shows a bit of continuity with the Wraith. Remember they didn't check him much in "The Hive" either.


It also seems a little convenient that the repair time for the Daedalus and Orion is just short enough to let them intercept the Wraith hiveships relatively close to Atlantis.

Was it? The Orion didn't have shields or weapons when they left, and the Deady was still mopping up from the previous battle.


And of course, even with Michael’s help, it’s a little hard to believe that Sheppard would survive, especially when it would have been a lot easier to destroy his 302 rather than recover and detain him!

Actually, considering that the Wraith will be traveling in intergalactic space, they might need as much food as they can get.

birdieey
July 16th, 2006, 08:15 PM
Actually he did it to save his life. The queen informed him she was only keeping him alive, for now, because he may still prove useful. Michael brought it up when he was trying to convince John to trust him. He said something to the effect that he doesn't have much more time and he would prefer to live.

I personally think it is illogical to hate someone for things they had no control over. I guess this is where prejudice comes in. They hate humans enough and/or think humans are so below them that they are willing to despise one of their own and kill him for being turned into one. On the upside Michael had a legitimate reason for switching sides. I know personally, my people or not, if they were going to kill me for something that wasn't my fault I would switch sides too.

It's not that I disagree with Michael's reasons for switching sides, it's just that it was a little convenient. Yes it's tv and everything needs to wrap up nicely every week, but I just want my characters to sweat a little more before their bailed out by the deux ex machina.


btw, does anyone else want to see Michael become a perminent member of Stargate: Atlantis, maybe even become the first Wraith "good guy" so to speak? I think I'd like it, it would be different, and not the typical "All bad guys are bad guys/all good guys are good guys" thing that's going on.

Uh...there is a little problem of what they'll do when he get's hungry;)

Plus, besides the cost of adding him to the show...
They are moving away from wraith storylines this season. The wraith will be in less then half of the episodes so that they can focus on other enemies including the one from Hot Zone and the Long Goodbye

I think I read in an interview on this site that Michael storyline is going to become..
A flying dutchman story, probably with all the other changed wraith from the hive ship (once they turn back)

ShadowMaat
July 16th, 2006, 08:17 PM
Beckett will be FEATURED in the next episode and honestly where could Beckett have played a part in this episode's plot? Beckett is one of my favorite characters but there was no plausible place for him in this episode.
In a way you're right, and if NML was the only case of Beckett being absent from the action, I wouldn't have as much of a problem with it. But he'd been sidelined (or absent) in what seemed to be a fair number of eps last season and while that argument could still hold true- that there was no logical place for him- then it makes me wonder why they bothered making him a main character at all if they can't find a consistent place for him in a majority of their stories.

Pitry
July 17th, 2006, 01:11 AM
Yay! Crossovers! No, really. I love them, I do. I already do see both shows as one with two episodes every week, and I would have liked the notion of "the characters in the episode are detemrined by location, not cast", so yay! Crossovers!

I really really really hope Weir becomes more hte Weir we saw in No Man's Land and the second half of season 1 than the Weir in the rest of hte show. That's the Weir that should be - a strong woman that goes with the "I don't give a damn what you're thinking, I'm doing what I think is right, I know I make huge mistakes and I'm going to take responsibility for them." That's the Weir I always imagined. So, hooray! Woolsey is becoming quite a bit more of a "good guy", tho, and I'm not sure if that's such a good thing, TBH. Portraying the rest of the IOA as idiots just to make Woolsey seem better so we can relate to him - I dunno, kind of ruins the dynamics they achieved in Heroes, Inaugration and Prototype.

.. Ha! The Orii are mentioned in Atlantis. I wondered how long that'll take. Flesh and Blood spoilers!So it seems we're back on the same time line now? Odd, I was sure Atlantis takes place before SG1 - especially the season premieres. But it has to be simoultanuous with Flesh and Blood, as they're tlaking about "Earth's ships" being caught fighting the Orii - it did feel as if they have no idea what's going on with the ships So, erm, yay.

So the Orion is destroyed. Good, it was too big a technology to have at any rate. They shouldn't have Aurora class ships - definitely not this early in the show. (...however, what is it with the writer's need to destroy spaceships? Not just SG1 and the Orion - but the Daedalus?! They need the Daedalus! The Oddyssey can't go on the Daedalus route! Meh. And just as I was starting to like Caldwell... nah, they need to get him a ship. However! There shall be no more magical, "oh, we just ended up building this new, shiny, ship." Please?)

So Wraith Queens aren't like the rest of the Wraith- in the genetic make up, no less, methinks? I wonder if we're going to see more about that - I certainly hope so. Maybe some of the riddles of the Wraith's existance would finally be solved?

And Michael turned too fast. And I mean, way too fast. So he's having a bit of problems at home and all of a sudden he forget all about how he wanted to go back to being a Wraith when he was human? Yes, I know that experience changed him. But that still should have been a slower process. And what's with the queen calling him "Michael"? Are we ever going to learn the Wraith's real names?
Loads of amusing quotes from Sheppard, not as many from McKay - quite a McKay light episode, TBH. A shame. All in all, excellent. Let's hope the rest of the season looks like that and not like the first half of season 2!

ETA: but can the Wraith please stop being so theatrical? Please? Pretty please?... :|

Raptor 1
July 17th, 2006, 01:25 AM
Really, I didn't see the Orion explode. All I saw were a lot of explosions on the hull of it. But we never actually saw it explode. Furthermore, I would like to know how the Orion was not even able to stand up to two hiveships, but was able to survive a supervolcano's explosion. I know they had to divert power from the shields to power the weapons, but surely their shields weren't the only things that had power. They should have just completely recharged the shield before the battle and then they could have hooked up their power source to power the weapons.

hmm if i remember right, the Orion escaped the volcano by opening a hyperspace window. Not relying on its shields tottally. But i do see your point. The time between Inferno and No Man's Land, you'd think they would have fixed whatever problems were plaguing the Orion. Most likely a power issue.

Captain Reynolds
July 17th, 2006, 01:31 AM
What I would really like to see is Connor Trinner join the cast of Stargate Atlantis permanent. He would make such a great addition and for the love of good let them keep some of the wraith tech it would make a great addition to the show especially if Micheal Stuck around. I think it could be quite awesome. I hate the fact that the orion got chumped so early but if they make its scarifice worthwhile it would be worth it.

Raptor 1
July 17th, 2006, 01:59 AM
What I would really like to see is Connor Trinner join the cast of Stargate Atlantis permanent. He would make such a great addition and for the love of good let them keep some of the wraith tech it would make a great addition to the show especially if Micheal Stuck around. I think it could be quite awesome. I hate the fact that the orion got chumped so early but if they make its scarifice worthwhile it would be worth it.

Yes trading the Orion for the Hive ship. Sounds like a fair trade. But how long will they keep it. If Michael became a regular, how would they keep him fed? Unless they perfect the retro-virus to where its effects weren't temporary.

Easter Lily
July 17th, 2006, 02:30 AM
After viewing this episode, I hope that Michael can shed some light on the wraith culture and their hierarchy.

They were very quick to exile Michael and the way the queen talked to him made me really wonder how they operate. She talked to him like he was trash and only around because he may prove useful. So one of their own made it back from an unbelievable circumstance and is bascially poked fun of and ostracized by the collective.

Michael then became interested in self-preservation. Is it because his time as a human gave him a new perspective or was this always his nature? Is it that he witnessed one human culture first hand and perhaps now sees things in a different light? Michael showed that he was concerned for his life and was willing to help Shep and company destroy the hive ships in order to really save himself. Yet, in The Siege we saw what appeared to be a very willing suicide bombing attempt by the wraith darts into the city of Atlantis. Wraith darts intercepted missles in a suicide attempt to protect their hive ships in this same episode and we saw them do it again in this episode. What value do they place on life, and why are some willing to take these suicide missions? Are they trained for it? Do they place the value of the lives of the other wraith above themselves....or the value of the collective? The queen seemed completely unconcerned about Michael. The queens other little sidekick, the one that was escorting Shep, seemed a bit reluctant to go to her and ask if she had given Michael the order to interrogate Shep.


Wonder if it's a case of my enemy's enemy is my friend...

What I really want to know is when Michael reaches his hunger threshold? He must be getting hungry some time soon and with all those humans conveniently standing around him...

Linzi
July 17th, 2006, 03:01 AM
Well, I was really impressed with NML. I didn't think Allies was a particularly strong episode in some ways, but I thought Martin Gero surpassed himself with this one.
What I loved:
Well, obviously Sheppard, doh! JF's line delivery was perfect, his one-liners extremely funny. I loved the F302 scenes. The wing being blown off the F302 was awesome!
The flashback scene? FGS, blink and you'd miss it. It was so inocuous, it's frightening. So, Shep smiled at a pretty girl, while he was eating his lunch, ignoring two scientists prattling on? That makes him a lech or Kirk, or a poor officer? Yeah, right. Sorry, I just can't agree with those who want to make something out of such an amusing scene, and brief scene. I absolutely love Martin Gero's sense of humour here. He was, IMO, holding his hands up and having a bit of a laugh here. Good for him. Stargate sense of humour is one of the things I love about the shows.
I loved Ronon and McKay here too. Nice interaction.
McKay's whining didn't bother me at all. He sort of reminded me of the depressed robot from Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy!
Ronon uses his hidden knife again, lol!
I liked the way Sheppard had to order Ronon not to hurt Michael too. "Because I say so", and Ronon actually took notice. Nice touch.
I liked Landry here too.
Weir hasn't always shone for me, but she was good here. I like it that Weir wouldn't be pushed around by the indecisive IOA. How ridiculous are they? I wonder who TPTB are suggesting are like that in RL? Hmmmn. I did actually feel a pang of sympathy that she faced those people all alone. After all, whether I agree with Weir's decisions or not, she did get the ok from these people in the first place! Talk about passing the buck! Those were important scenes, but I'm glad they mainly took place in the first parts of the show, as it would have slowed the pace of the episode down otherwise.
I did love the opening scenes too, the battle from Sheppard's perspective was an interesting opener, and different.
What I didn't love:
Er, I've got nothing!
All in all, a very promising start. I hope Misbegotten will continue the darker, dirtier theme. Fingers crossed...

Shep'sSocks
July 17th, 2006, 03:05 AM
Probably for plot reasons. It would have been a pain and a waste of air time to give Sheppard a co-pilot who the writers would have to give a name, and he would have to either a) Be killed when the wing blew, which would add an unnecessary dose of angst, or b)tag along after Sheppard unnecessarily for the rest of the ep. In terms of procedure, he probably should have had one, but in terms of script, it just wouldn't have worked that well.

It wouldn't have been for the angst because we don't care about someone we aren't invested in. Had it been, say Major Lorne, and he got killed, then there's some angst for you.

Unless you mean Shep angst which is always a Good Thing ... ?

Shep'sSocks
July 17th, 2006, 03:25 AM
And even though I groaned at the end when the "To be continued" line appeared on the screen... I rejoiced a little... I'm glad they're taking their time with the story to give us more continuity!

But what an odd ending. It kind of just stopped.

Esquin
July 17th, 2006, 03:38 AM
I'd just like to say that although I lvoe the daedalus and everything I am all for destroying it.

Hear me out. Reverting back to the old days of the gate. With the Daedalus and the Oddesy out of commision for awhile thats what will happen. And it can only be a good thing.

HyperspaceDaemon
July 17th, 2006, 03:42 AM
After all, a lot of people felt that the second season finale, “Allies”, had been an example of forcing the story at the expense of the characters. Weir in particular made very bad choices, necessary to allow for a credible threat to Earth. This premiere is meant to deal with that threat, with a subplot defending Weir’s choices. I liked the “A” plot thread well enough, but the “B” plot was all about excuses.

I did notice some plot conveniences. It was a little ridiculous for Ronon to still have a weapon [...]. It also seems a little convenient that the repair time for the Daedalus and Orion is just short enough to let them intercept the Wraith hiveships relatively close to Atlantis. And of course, even with Michael’s help, it’s a little hard to believe that Sheppard would survive, especially when it would have been a lot easier to destroy his 302 rather than recover and detain him!



After a long waiting, I saw the first episode of season 3 last night.
I enjoyed it a lot, but felt that it was too easy to solve the problem :
- escaping a cocoon seemed more trivial than it was supposed to be
- Sheppard survives after his ship looses one wing, and he is conveniently
retrieved by the wraith
- my impression was that the Wraith fought almost with no shields. Ok,
Sheppard's first attack was a surprise and they had shields down. I can
understand that Orion could easily destroy a hive ship thanks to
Ancients' superior technology (I enjoyed this part a lot; very cool indeed).
But what about the other one? It was a surprise to see Daedalus inflicting
enough damage to disable a hive ship. Does this mean that Daedalus is
on par with a hive ship?
- the hive ship stopped firing at the right moment

It was a shame that Orion got destroyed. It would have been very
interesting if the team had the opprtunity to study it closer and use it
in other episodes. I'd like to see more Ancients technology and more
details about them .

Cheers

cjp240573
July 17th, 2006, 04:26 AM
Im not sure, but something here reminded me of Battlestar Galactica.

The space fight?

ps awww the Orion has been destroyed :(

CJ :S

ShadowMaat
July 17th, 2006, 04:40 AM
Yup. I thought the same thing. I think it's because there was something about all the little fighters coming out of the much bigger ships and engaging in battle. I also remember thinking that I wished it WAS BSG because then at least I'd know which ships were which.

You may want to add a spoiler tag to your post or put spoiler warnings in the title since you drop a massive and horrific spoiler in your post which will utterly destroy the ep for any unwary fans happening across it.

Konman72
July 17th, 2006, 04:59 AM
I got that feeling as well, but in a good way. Also, the shot with the nukes streaming toward the Hive Ship was beautiful....and straight from BSG lol. This is good though, it means that BSG raised the bar and the Gates are right there with them.

MB.Eddie
July 17th, 2006, 05:50 AM
Good episode with plenty of action and possibilities for the future. Too bad about the Orion, but at least she went out with a bang :)