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GateWorld
July 14th, 2006, 02:45 PM
<DIV ALIGN="center"><TABLE WIDTH="450" BORDER="0" CELLSPACING="0" CELLPADDING="7"><TR><TD><DIV ALIGN="left"><FONT FACE="Verdana, Arial, san-serif" SIZE="2" COLOR="#000000"><A HREF="http://www.gateworld.net/sg1/s10/1003.shtml"><IMG SRC="http://www.gateworld.net/sg1/graphics/1003.jpg" WIDTH="160" HEIGHT="120" ALIGN="right" HSPACE="10" VSPACE="2" BORDER="0" STYLE="border: 1px black solid" ALT="Visit the Episode Guide"></A><FONT SIZE="1" COLOR="#888888">SG-1 SEASON TEN</FONT>
<FONT SIZE="4"><A HREF="http://www.gateworld.net/sg1/s10/1003.shtml" STYLE="text-decoration: none">THE PEGASUS PROJECT</A></FONT>
<FONT SIZE="1">EPISODE NUMBER - 1003</FONT>
<IMG SRC="/images/clear.gif" WIDTH="1" HEIGHT="10" ALT="">
SG-1 visits Atlantis in the hopes of preventing the Ori from sending more ships through the Supergate, and to find a new lead on Merlin's anti-Ori weapon.

<FONT SIZE="1" COLOR="#888888"><B><A HREF="http://www.gateworld.net/sg1/s10/1003.shtml">VISIT THE EPISODE GUIDE ></A></B>
SPOILERS! PHOTOS! AND MORE!</FONT></FONT></DIV></TD></TR></TABLE></DIV>

Nefreyu
July 28th, 2006, 07:01 PM
Wow what an episode!!!

IMForeman
July 28th, 2006, 07:02 PM
Now that was what I call a Twofer! Huzzah!

This was great SG-1!

MarshAngel
July 28th, 2006, 07:03 PM
That was an all round good episode. I was drawn enough to withhold critique... which is always a good thing.

smushybird
July 28th, 2006, 07:05 PM
The best SG1 and best SGA episode in a loooong time.
Fun, intelligent, interesting, even some sweet moments here and there (Rodney's thank you to Sam). All the actors were superb. I hated to see the episode end.
I am so impressed.

edain
July 28th, 2006, 07:05 PM
I loved seeing Cam step in when Rodney was about to say something so Sam. That had me laughing so hard... And how many of you guys had the sudden urge to do a fist pump when the kawoosh part of the gate caught the Ori ship? It's about daggum time we got a happy on the show!

Hybridbabe
July 28th, 2006, 07:06 PM
This episode blew me away. WOW.

From the discoveries in Atlantis to blowing up the Ori AND Wraith ships, establishing a wormhole along the way... The McKay/Sam/Mitchell Banter, and Daniel/Vala/Morgan interactions.... WOW.

Brad, you are the MAN. *bows* When you write, YOU WRITE WELL. WOW!!!!!!!!

siXbrownSnakes2
July 28th, 2006, 07:06 PM
Being written by Brad, I expected a lot from this ep. It started off slow, but it was a fun episode :)

I really didn't expect them both to get blown up. It's something I've missed from stargate. Finally an episode that isn't 100% predictable.

Sucks that the Ancients are so stubborn that they won't even adknowledge that they're ina s much trouble as we are. Part of me wants to give Merlins weapon to the Ori just so they can use it on the Ancients :/

EvilVala
July 28th, 2006, 07:07 PM
Amazing, Outstanding, Unbelivable...etc!:vala:

Stncold
July 28th, 2006, 07:07 PM
Absolutely loved it.

A toilet being destroyed and complete and utter confirmation that 80% of the Ancients are a bunch of cowards in the same episode.


Will be hard to top this in my eyes.

Anyway, was anybody else half expecting Cam to say to Landry "Now we know how to take them out General, spread the word" at the end.

Dromag67
July 28th, 2006, 07:07 PM
Awesome crossover, 5/5 stars.

Best of both shows!

Zatnikitelman
July 28th, 2006, 07:07 PM
And don't forget; CHALK ON UP FOR THE TOILER CLEANER YEEHAA!!!!!!!!!! One big bad Ori ship down, only three dirty toilets to go!

NowIWillDestroyAbydos
July 28th, 2006, 07:07 PM
Great episode, best one of the season so far. So we finally destroyed a Ori Ship eh, damn was that cool. The best scenes: Cam, Rodney, and the Citrus; the scenes with Rodney and Sam; and lastly the opening scene of the ep.

I still believe what I said: this season is looking better and better.

lowriders95s10
July 28th, 2006, 07:08 PM
This episode blew me away. WOW.

From the discoveries in Atlantis to blowing up the Ori AND Wraith ships, establishing a wormhole along the way... The McKay/Sam/Mitchell Banter, and Daniel/Vala/Morgan interactions.... WOW.

Rob Cooper, you are the MAN. *bows* When you write, YOU WRITE WELL. WOW!!!!!!!!
that was Brad Wright's episode and it was amazing

CYBEREAGLE19
July 28th, 2006, 07:09 PM
damn thats was a great episode, more then made up for the last episode, I would get to work salvageing that ori ship and seeing what tech we can get from it, maybe something usful

Ltcolshepjumper
July 28th, 2006, 07:09 PM
What was cool was that the Explosion of the Wraith hive (b/c of the nuke) caused the wormhole to jump to the supergate and established the supergate wormhole as well as destroy an Ori ship. Hopefully they will salvage the debri. :sheppard:

edain
July 28th, 2006, 07:09 PM
Come on, someone had to do a fist pump when the Ori ship was cut in half...

full.infinity
July 28th, 2006, 07:09 PM
Out of 5 stars, I give this episode 1048576.

full.infinity
July 28th, 2006, 07:09 PM
Come on, someone had to do a fist pump when the Ori ship was cut in half...
I said "WOOHOOOOOOOO!", does that count?

Descended
July 28th, 2006, 07:10 PM
Agreed, good episode, I thought the killing both ships was a little convenient, and they really telegraphed the destruction of the Ori ship by having it hover over the gate like that, would have been better if they simply got the Ori ship and not the Wraith ship.

That blackhole was awfully weak, since the last blackhole they encountered practically stopped time in the SGC through a wormhole linked to a planet that was merely orbiting a blackhole, yet they flew almost into this one and all that happened was Teal'cs voice got a little deeper.

I still don't trust Morgan La Fey!

JanusAncient
July 28th, 2006, 07:10 PM
How long do you think it will take, before the Ori re-establishes a wormhole. Then, they'll send in another 4 ships, as a gift for Sg-1's efforts. What was Morgan Le Fay going to say, perhaps the weapon is not complete? This was a really good episode! But, if they can do it, we know that the Ori can as well.

Lil Naitch
July 28th, 2006, 07:12 PM
And after getting our asses kicked, we get a twofer. Wooooo!

full.infinity
July 28th, 2006, 07:12 PM
How long do you think it will take, before the Ori re-establishes a wormhole. Then, they'll send in another 4 ships, as a gift for Sg-1's efforts. What was Morgan Le Fay going to say, perhaps the weapon is not complete? This was a really good episode! But, if they can do it, we know that the Ori can as well.
My guess was the weapon is not on either planet.

Bragi
July 28th, 2006, 07:13 PM
Outstanding!

Best episode in three seasons, to me at least. Really awesome using a nuke to blow up a Hive ship to jump the wormhole to blow up an Ori ship. Just great.

I guess that poster in health class was true "Kawooshes Kill!"

edain
July 28th, 2006, 07:13 PM
I said "WOOHOOOOOOOO!", does that count?
I doesn't make me feel so goofy for doing it! But oh yeah that counts. That's how you know a show is good when it makes you feel the joy of the characters in the show.

keshou
July 28th, 2006, 07:14 PM
Clearly it would be helpful for both shows it they could clone Brad Wright..

;) :) :)

Dani76
July 28th, 2006, 07:15 PM
What a ride!!! This episode rocked big time. Both story lines were awesome, surprising, and funny. Everything was just right! And all of the actors were outstanding.

Can't wait for the rerun. Both thumbs way up. Brad Wright, you are the man.

I am loving Season 10.

FaithStars
July 28th, 2006, 07:17 PM
Obviously this is a thread to discuss the episode but, on the off chance someone "accidently" came in before they could see it;).......
Yes!!!! Took both of those bad asses down!!!!!!!!!!!! I have to say that I was proud of this episode, it was a crossover and it could have turned out to be a disaster. Continue great episodes like this. Solid nine out of ten:)

Ps- I liked the episode so much that I'm not even going to point out the one factor that kept it from being a Ten:D

ONE MORE THING: Daniel was a rock star in this episode! About Damn time someone spoke up to those accended beings!!!!!!!


Happy Posting:cool:
Faithstars(Faith)

Hybridbabe
July 28th, 2006, 07:20 PM
that was Brad Wright's episode and it was amazing

Sadly, I just noticed that :danielanime05:. My apologies Brad! Thank you lowrider, for the correction.

Dani347
July 28th, 2006, 07:20 PM
Yawn. I much prefer team together. And, I have to wait until 10:00 to see if my first impression of Daniel's impression of Atlantis is as disappointing as I had thought. (taping Numb3rs now) I was expecting something along the lines of him discovering that Merlin was an Ancient or reading the book in the treasure room, or even seeing Hammond in Prometheus Unbound, full of wonder and little boy excitement, and grins. Didn't seem like that, and I know there's the whole Ori problem to mute that, but since he was taking a moment, I thought it would be more. I felt I was being told (Daniel Disneyland) that this was a big deal for him.

I don't watch Atlantis so it's no thrill to see the SG1 characters interact with the Atlantis characters. And, ships just bore me. But, I'm glad the only Ori appearance was an Ori ship that was silent. I'm sure they said it, but why was Teal'c back in our galaxy?

Didn't really like Vala interrupting Daniel. It was fine in Avalon (again, it was countered with full of wonder Daniel, this not so much) but now it was like the writers figured this is their thing, their gimmick.

Yes, I lurked in the real time thread (don't really get that, but whatever floats your boat) and I did not see Daniel getting fed up with Morgan Le Fay as being dark. I've seen Daniel get passionate when he feels people aren't doing the right thing, and that's what I saw. Passion, some anger. The best part of the episode for me. Actually, I was worried that Morgan was going to be Adria, and there would be fighting. I liked her saying that she remembered Daniel's heart. Seems like he spent his ascended time poking his nose in the Ancients' MO.

Um, ship thing. Er, Sam says do something, Mckay says no, Sam says do something to fix it, he does his thing, she does her thing, Mitchell threatens him with a lemon, Wraith ship, boom boom. And, somewhere, someone behind the scenes of the show plays with a computer screen and says, "and lets have some pretty pretty sparkies, because that means danger!" I did like the whole "if you don't succeed, build another 'technological big bang device which exact name I can't remember'" bit between Sam and Mitchell. Other than that?

Okay, Vala did seem concerned for Daniel at the end, which was nice, since he was melancholy. And, no help from the Ancients.

This episode might be more "important" and Daniel might have finally gotten to Atlantis, but I liked last week's better. More moments that I can just watch and grin and just love.

And, I see that I'm sitting all by my little self here from reading the opinions above me. I'll just go play with Teal'c in his little lone ship.

smushybird
July 28th, 2006, 07:22 PM
Clearly it would be helpful for both shows it they could clone Brad Wright..

;) :) :)


Yes, could we please have Brad Wright write for both shows all the time from now on? :D Please, please?

cdcarter
July 28th, 2006, 07:22 PM
This was an amazing episode. 800000000000000000000000000000000000/5. Brad rocks me. Daniel was the most amazing guy ever, and Morgan and Vala were great. I cannot believe how well written and unexpected that episode was. I am excited for more stargate like this, and more of the Ancients/Merlin/Morgan storyline.

glitzgal
July 28th, 2006, 07:33 PM
This is probably one the best eps I have seen in the past two years, I loved it!

Dani347
July 28th, 2006, 07:35 PM
Wow, reading this thread, and also other boards, I really am the cheese that stood alone.

Mainer82
July 28th, 2006, 07:36 PM
Out of 5 stars, I give this episode 1048576.
I know what you mean....

I really enjoyed seeing Daniel get to visit Atlantis, seeing an Ancient and and ORI SHIP getting BLOWN up... WOW. It'll be interesting to see what the Ori do to get another gate going. All the episode was missing is the Asgard.

I'm not sure what to of Morgan La Fey... Is she telling the truth? She seemed sincere, but yet she could be trying to trick us as well, but why would she want to? She could be fearing her own saftey.

FallenAngelII
July 28th, 2006, 07:42 PM
I knew she'd be punished for what she did and was very sad when it happened. Concerning that she might have been Adria, Adria is a human with the knowledge of the Ori. She cannot do stuff like the Ascended Beings.

And you do not have to put stuff into the spoiler tag if the episode you're talking about is the very same episode that the thread you're posting in was made for.

"The weapon is not there"
"The weapon is not complete"
"The weapon is not effective"

Those are all possibilities. Only time will tell.

cdcarter
July 28th, 2006, 07:42 PM
Wow, reading this thread, and also other boards, I really am the cheese that stood alone.
I kind of agree with you, but I really love the Merlin storyline and this episode made me excited about it going somewhere, but the last episode was better in the way that it went back to what made SG1 awesome.

majorsal
July 28th, 2006, 07:42 PM
Wow, reading this thread, and also other boards, I really am the cheese that stood alone.

no; wait for the long-time gaters to speak up. ;)





sally :)

Maj_Cliffhanger
July 28th, 2006, 07:42 PM
WOW! Or as Mitchell would say, 'Now that's what I'm talkin' about!'

Everything a Stargate Episode is suposed to be.

cdcarter
July 28th, 2006, 07:52 PM
Has anybody watched the AOL content yet, or are we all waiting until the end of SGA?

Mainer82
July 28th, 2006, 07:52 PM
no; wait for the long-time gaters to speak up. ;)





sally :)
I'm a long time gater and eve though this ep was not exploritory, it was great.

captain jake
July 28th, 2006, 07:52 PM
I can not explain in words how good this episode was. The story was crisp, fresh, and new I mean I have never been so impressed with a TV show. I was so excited when we blew up the Ori ship my eyes started to water and I am not exaggerating.

However I have a theory of why we were conveniently able to destroy both ships. Well at the end of the episode when Daniel said that they where on there own I think he might have been wrong. Is it possible that the ancients helped the gate jump? I believe that it is completely plausible they walk an extremely fine line and even though they couldn't tell us where the weapon is they are still on our side. I really hope we aren't alone, what do you guys think?

MasySyma
July 28th, 2006, 07:53 PM
no; wait for the long-time gaters to speak up. ;)




Sorry. Not this time. I loved the episode, and I have watched almost all of them.

It was a great episode, well put together, and fantastically acted.

I loved the scene with Daniel and Morgan and his words to the Ancients, and the toned down Vala is quickly becoming one of my favorite characters. The Rodney/Sam interaction was great, and Mitchell fit well with the team as well. I liked the duel threat, and I thought that it was fantastic that an Ori vessel was finally destroyed!!! I like to see that the team is gaining the ability to fight back without solving every problem yet.

I can't wait to find out how and why Daniel becomes a prior. I wonder if it will have something to do with his reaction to the Ancients after this episode.

A 10/10. It's been a hectic week, but this episode was well worth the wait.

FaithStars
July 28th, 2006, 07:54 PM
That's a nice thought but, I don't see them helping......YET:)

keshou
July 28th, 2006, 07:55 PM
no; wait for the long-time gaters to speak up. ;)
sally :)

I rather enjoyed it and it's the first episode I thought got all the characters "right" (well except for Vala being somewhat annoying) in a long time.

Pharaoh Atem
July 28th, 2006, 07:56 PM
good guys 2 ori ...lost count but the important thing is we finally got something to go our way finally loved the cam Rodney interaction and the lemon. that even tool Sam back a bit.

the one thing that bugged me is that Atlantis doesn't understand just how serious the ori threat is especially rodney

Dromag67
July 28th, 2006, 08:03 PM
Dare I say the Ori Toilet Ship got flushed? :cameron:

Much better than the Atlantis episode that followed.

ShardsofGlass
July 28th, 2006, 08:05 PM
I liked this episode about a thousand times better than last week's. Thank God! I was starting to think I should stop watching the show. But this ep had humor, it was exciting, it had twists. Even listening to the normally boring Ancient talk didn't bore me, and Vala was okay. THough I agree with whoever mentioned her interrupting Daniel - that was getting old.

But every character had a moment to shine in some way. I don't watch Atlantis at all, but I might now. It was really fun to see the characters from both shows interacting.

Major Gambit
July 28th, 2006, 08:07 PM
AMAZING!! BEST EPISODE YET!!

W00t 1 ORI MOTHERSHIP KILL!


I really like the parts with the ancient, nad the Sam/Rodney parts were cool.



Mitchll: This place is Daniel Disneyland


LOL!!

Nolamom
July 28th, 2006, 08:09 PM
There were some good bits - getting rid of an Ori ship, having a conversation with an Ancient (however unhelpful), threatening Rodney with a lemon (always a good thing).

Why the heck did Teal'c have to be the one in the ship keeping tabs back in the Milky Way galaxy? There wasn't anyone else so that he could go along with the team??? Just like when he was onboard the Lucian alliance vessel - apart from the team. Doesn't the writing team (including Brad) like him? If Vala could go along, dang it, Teal'c should have been there.

I did agree with Vala's impatience with Daniel and the "hologram" - just ask the question. Daniel does tend to dance around the issues a lot he needs to get to the point quicker.

Okay, correct me if I'm wrong, but now that the supergate is activated extra-galactically powered by a black hole it should remain up and running almost indefintely (per McKay) so now we only have to contend with three Ori ships.

Dromag67
July 28th, 2006, 08:12 PM
There were some good bits - getting rid of an Ori ship, having a conversation with an Ancient (however unhelpful), threatening Rodney with a lemon (always a good thing).

Why the heck did Teal'c have to be the one in the ship keeping tabs back in the Milky Way galaxy? There wasn't anyone else so that he could go along with the team??? Just like when he was onboard the Lucian alliance vessel - apart from the team. Doesn't the writing team (including Brad) like him? If Vala could go along, dang it, Teal'c should have been there.

I did agree with Vala's impatience with Daniel and the "hologram" - just ask the question. Daniel does tend to dance around the issues a lot he needs to get to the point quicker.

Okay, correct me if I'm wrong, but now that the supergate is activated extra-galactically powered by a black hole it should remain up and running almost indefintely (per McKay) so now we only have to contend with three Ori ships.


Well the Jaffa High Council probably wouldn't trust anyone besides Teal'c using one of their ships, and it gave him a job which he would not have if he were to just stand around on the Oddessy.

Mitchell82
July 28th, 2006, 08:13 PM
Excellent episode! Damn those ancients for not wanting to help us but we probably knew that already!;) Morgan will probably be stripped of her power and dropped naked somewhere!;) Great episode great chemistry between the two casts verry impressed! Can't wait for next week looks ausome, lets hope we got great ratings! I'm expecting at least 1.8 but hoping for 2.0!

dark
July 28th, 2006, 08:17 PM
McKay trying to explain his half-naked Carter hallucination a few episodes back to the real Carter = priceless.

Mainer82
July 28th, 2006, 08:19 PM
To add to my other posts, I must say they are starting to stretch the science a bit though, earlier in the series the science was so much more "smarter".

I think it was season 1 with the black hole that almost destroyed Earth and ate another plaent was much more powerful than this one... Maybe this was a smaller black hole? I hope they start making SG smarter like it used to, that's what got me into it in the first place.

FallenAngelII
July 28th, 2006, 08:19 PM
BTW, I forgot to mention this, but did anyone else find it funny that Daniel and/or the writers made the following blooper:

When talking to Morgan Lefay, he asked why the Ascended Beings weren't helped us, the "billions of people in this galaxy", completely forgetting that he was currently in the Pegasus Galaxy, which has a much smaller population because of cullings and, besides, the Ori haven't even set their eyes on Pegasus yet.

Pocus
July 28th, 2006, 08:20 PM
I thought this episode was great. I loved seeing some of the team in Atlantis. Every one had a part to play, even if Mitchell's big action was to threaten McKay with a lemon. He deserved it. Great scene with Mitchell and Sheppard.

The techno babble made my head swim, but the visual effects made up for that. The gate leaving the hangar was amazing.

It was great to see Daniel get so upset and yell at the Ascended. I doubt they will listen though. I wonder what part Morgan Le Fay may yet play and how many other Ascended beings feel the same as she does? Does she descend like Daniel, nekkid on a planet (my hubby liked that visual)?

Yeah 2 ships with one explosion!!!!

FoolishPleasure
July 28th, 2006, 08:20 PM
I was worried about the cross-over but it worked. Loved the Sam/Rodney/Cam interaction - seems TPTB finally got a handle on Mitchell and I hope they can keep it.

The Daniel/Morgan/Vala scenes got a bit long, but that is nit-picking. There really wasn't much to complain about tonight. Drats. ;)

Major Gambit
July 28th, 2006, 08:22 PM
The ONLY thing i didnt like about this episode is that Sheppard wasnt in most of it :(




Does she descend like Daniel, nekkid on a planet (my hubby liked that visual)?

I hope so :jack_new_anime05:

the fifth man
July 28th, 2006, 08:23 PM
no; wait for the long-time gaters to speak up. ;)





sally :)

I am a long-time gater. Been there since Season 1. And I absolutely loved this episode. All-around, I'd give it a 5/5.:) This crossover was done about as well as I think one could be done IMO. Definitely the best episode so far this season for me - even though I've really liked the others too.

I really liked Daniel toward the end there. Very powerful stuff IMO. At least Morgan tried to do what she thought was right. Any yay, we finally toasted one of the Ori ships. One down, three to go.;)

Mainer82
July 28th, 2006, 08:24 PM
The techno babble made my head swim, but the visual effects made up for that. The gate leaving the hangar was amazing.



Yeah 2 ships with one explosion!!!!
If you want mindless chatter go watch the typical garbage on the primetime networks. "Techno babble" and science is what MADE SG1.

the fifth man
July 28th, 2006, 08:26 PM
If you want mindless chatter go watch the typical garbage on the primetime networks. "Techno babble" and science is what MADE SG1.

I couldn't agree more. I love when McKay and Sam get into debates like they did in this one. It's been too long.:)

Also, I got a real kick out of how Mitchell and Sheppard got along. Loved Mitchell threatening McKay with that lemon. I was LMAO!:D

Major_Griff
July 28th, 2006, 08:27 PM
I loved the whole Hive ship on one end, Ori ship on the other end part, so awesome, great episode. ANd the destuction of the Ori ship, I couldn't help but yell out in glee. Awesome Awesome Awesome! Cam/Sam/Rodney, awesome, Sheppard and and Mitchell, And Daniel at the end, talk about showing off your acting chops! WOW! okay I'm done now sorry for raving but watching the repeat right now has me so excited!

the fifth man
July 28th, 2006, 08:33 PM
I loved the whole Hive ship on one end, Ori ship on the other end part, so awesome, great episode. ANd the destuction of the Ori ship, I couldn't help but yell out in glee. Awesome Awesome Awesome! Cam/Sam/Rodney, awesome, Sheppard and and Mitchell, And Daniel at the end, talk about showing off your acting chops! WOW! okay I'm done now sorry for raving but watching the repeat right now has me so excited!

Nothing to be sorry for. You thoroughly enjoyed the episode. A lot of us did, and for good reason. I have to admit, I kind of yelled out in "glee" when the Ori ship blew too.:)

Nolamom
July 28th, 2006, 08:33 PM
Gotta admit McKay was in fine form - his tremendously irritating self. Don't get me wrong, I like him, but the man can be a pain in the mikta.

Scyld
July 28th, 2006, 08:35 PM
I'm a long time gater and eve though this ep was not exploritory, it was great.

I've been watching SG-1 since season 1, and I too thought this episode was great.

ToasterOnFire
July 28th, 2006, 08:36 PM
Overall, this was an excellent ep. I wish they would write eps like this more often. It had action, tension, and great character interactions- all around great. Best of both s3 and s10 so far.

Though I thought Shep and Cam were downright mean to McKay. Don't get me wrong, there are eps where I think a harsh word would be warranted, but Rodney didn't seem overly rude or cruel in this ep yet everyone was jumping down his throat. And having Shep and Cam carry around that lemon (and Cam threatening him with it?!) knowing it can give him a horrible allergic reaction? I'm sure that was meant to be amusing, but it just ticked me off. :mad:

Oh, and I thought that the approaching mass around the black whole would be three dimensional instead of two? Like a sphere instead of looking like a spiral galaxy? *science wank* :D

Anyway, I'm rewatching it now to try and erase "Irresistable" from my brain. :S

khd
July 28th, 2006, 08:38 PM
I was jumping up and down when the Ori Ship was destroyed. Great frakkin episode. Even though it takes place in Atlantis, this is the definition of a great SG-1 episode.
But I have 2 questions:

1.) When did McKay's alergies turn into an immobalizing fear of citris?

2.) Do you have any idea how cool "a wraith hive ship exploding near a black hole sending an exhaust jet through a stargate hitting an Ori ship, forcing the wormhole to jump to the supergate causing the kawoosh of the supergate to destroy the Ori ship" looks on a 68inch screen?(because I do! :cool: )

Nolamom
July 28th, 2006, 08:41 PM
Oh, and I thought that the approaching mass around the black whole would be three dimensional instead of two? Like a sphere instead of looking like a spiral galaxy? *science wank* :D
:S
No, theoretically matter forms into an accretion disk around the black hole and two jets may shoot out from the center. So they got that right.

cafine_us
July 28th, 2006, 08:42 PM
Rodney's always avoided citrus at all costs. One wouldn't want our favorite obnoxious geek to suddenly croak from his allergy. The military types were just exploiting his weakness. And it was funny.

FallenAngelII
July 28th, 2006, 08:42 PM
About McKay's allergies: He's deadly allergic to citrus.

About Morgan Lefay's fate: She barely broke the rules (she treaded the line for a while and then decided to break the rules) and the Others stepped in. They wouldn't destroy or descend her for that little "crime".

Remember, in "Full Circle", Daniel tried to destroy Anubis, but Oma Desala stepped in to prevent him to bring down the Wrath of the Others. Had she not done that, the others would've stopped him. Now, doesn't this crime seem much worse than Morgan Lefay's?

Yet, the Others decided not to descend Daniel. Daniel's choice to descend was his own. He didn't like the way of the Others and decided to descend of his own free will.

Therefore, Morgan Lefay becoming force-descended is highly unlikely.

Major_Griff
July 28th, 2006, 08:43 PM
I was jumping up and down when the Ori Ship was destroyed. Great frakkin episode. Even though it takes place in Atlantis, this show is the definition of a great SG-1 episode.
But I have 2 questions:

1.) When did McKay's alergies turn into an immobalizing fear of citris?

2.) Do you have any idea how cool "a wraith hive ship exploding near a black hole sending an exhaust jet through a stargate hitting an Ori ship, forcing the wormhole to jump to the supergate causing the kawoosh of the supergate to destroy the Ori ship" looks on a 68inch screen?(because I do! :cool: )


I love Mckay's line: We just blew up and Ori Ship by blowing up a Hive Ship

So Awesome!

Xmen583
July 28th, 2006, 08:45 PM
there something not right about the ancients and ori,

what if the ancients was right, that they are no better then the ori,

what reason why they won't help earth to fight against ori??

1. are ancients scare of ori are too powerfull

2. they can't do anything but to let people die.

3. they don't care about everyone in milky way galaxy

4. what is ancients greatest fear since they ori behind

5. which is good or evil ( Ancients, Ori

Sam fisher
July 28th, 2006, 08:46 PM
Also, I got a real kick out of how Mitchell and Sheppard got along. Loved Mitchell threatening McKay with that lemon. I was LMAO!:D
For some reason I got a mental image of Mitchell pulling out the lemon and saying "back you demon, back!"

majorsal
July 28th, 2006, 08:50 PM
i have 15 minutes before this ep comes on for me. but i have a question about the eps that follow this one.

is daniel in eps 4 and 5?





sally :sam:

brulz
July 28th, 2006, 08:50 PM
I thought the part where Daniel confronted the supposed hologram and then Morgan eyes shifting was the greatest part. I also liked the look on her face when Daniel said he understood the position she was in but the information he has been given is not enough. Looked like Morgan was completely thrown off by his attitude. I don't understand why more people did like this part of the episode.

Dani347
July 28th, 2006, 08:52 PM
i have 15 minutes before this ep comes on for me. but i have a question about the eps that follow this one.

is daniel in eps 4 and 5?





sally :sam:


No, I think those are two of his 4 missed episodes. But, confirm that with someone else first.

Jess H.
July 28th, 2006, 08:53 PM
there was clapping at my house when that ori ship blew. i've been watching since the beginning (seen every ep somehow without having showtime or the scifi channel) and i loved this ep! i am so glad that Daniel let Morgan and all of the ancients have it for hanging us lowly humans out to dry. they're the ones that left this mess lying around. sure SG1 stirred it up a bit, but should we be left alone to clean it up?

Dromag67
July 28th, 2006, 08:53 PM
I also loved Daniel in this episode after years of the ancient bullcrap he finally got fed up with it and it shows.

Great progression in the character IMHO.

the fifth man
July 28th, 2006, 08:54 PM
i have 15 minutes before this ep comes on for me. but i have a question about the eps that follow this one.

is daniel in eps 4 and 5?





sally :sam:

Hmmm, good question. There's no mention of him in spoilers or pics. Probably just a couple of the ones he's not in like we heard about.

kmwhite
July 28th, 2006, 08:59 PM
Around 57 minutes into it.. THAT WAS A KAWOOSH! That's a trade off. Anyone else think that Ben Browder likes sling shotting ships using large gravity field wielding objects? ;)

edit: I'm trying to read all the posts up to mine, but the server is SLOW. Too much fandom.

killerz298
July 28th, 2006, 09:01 PM
This episode was AWESOME! Been watching both shows since the movie and this is what SG is all about! I loved everything about the episode from the storyline to the character interactions to the effects! I must honestly say that I am starting to like Vala a lot. I was completely against her at first but I am starting to warm up to her. I am still not so crazy about Mitchell just yet, wish he was more like Sheppard, but I don't HATE the character.

I have a question though, can the gate now be used to travel from Pegasus to Milky Way? If so, that gate better be defended big time as we don't need any wraith figuring out what it is and having a instant ride to the Milky Way (if they don't already know about its existance and how to upgrade the hyperdrive from the happenings in earlier episodes).

It is also going to be a problem communicating with any ships guarding the gate as the black hole messes with the sensors and radio signals. It will be interesting seeing how this works out.

cafine_us
July 28th, 2006, 09:01 PM
While I can see why Daniel is getting angry that the Ancients aren't helping us, I think any scrap of information we're being tossed is extremely helpful. Morgan didn't need to help us at all, and we probably would have found the weapon eventually without her support. And even though Daniel thinks the Ancients won't help us, a future storyline could be resolved with a mysterious deus ex machina from these ascendeds, much in the way the Asgard helped us in earlier seasons.

Konman72
July 28th, 2006, 09:05 PM
Immediate top 10 episode right there! AMAZING! I literally couldn't speak for the last 10 minutes of the episode. If they can keep up this streak season 10 could be the best season ever!


...sorry, I really liked it ;)

KairezLightkeeper
July 28th, 2006, 09:06 PM
Come on, someone had to do a fist pump when the Ori ship was cut in half...Fist-pumped, clapped, and cheered. I think my dad thought I was crazy.

Ahh... A bumper sticker... “Lemons kill.”

Another long-time Gater, and quite satisfied with this episode...

Of the three possible versions of what Le Fay was about to say (not on either world, not complete, not effective), I would wager that the weapon isn't on either world. It's probably the easiest of the three... If it's not on either world, then we'll probably find more clues as to where it actually is... Just seemed like that would be the most likely thing. If it isn't complete, then obviously we'll have to complete it, which is possible and might be true, but the weapon's technology seems too over our heads for Carter to be able to fix in any reasonable amount of time (maybe she can team up with McKay again). If the weapon doesn't work at all... then that's just a waste of the several good episode slots we spent looking for it...

Or maybe she was going to say, “The weapon is not on (name planet here).” Hey, it could happen...


I have a question though, can the gate now be used to travel from Pegasus to Milky Way? If so, that gate better be defended big time as we don't need any wraith figuring out what it is and having a instant ride to the Milky Way (if they don't already know about its existance and how to upgrade the hyperdrive from the happenings in earlier episodes). The Gate in Pegasus is normal-sized, meaning that it could fit a Wraith dart at best... Add onto that the fact that it's probably so close to the black hole itself that an approaching ship would probably be pulled apart, and I'd say that Stargate is much more guarded than anything we could do.

Nolamom
July 28th, 2006, 09:07 PM
I have a question though, can the gate now be used to travel from Pegasus to Milky Way?
.
Highly unlikey as the gate on the Pegasus end is very close to a black hole - too close to risk going through without your ship getting ripped apart by the gravity of the black hole.

the fifth man
July 28th, 2006, 09:08 PM
Immediate top 10 episode right there! AMAZING! I literally couldn't speak for the last 10 minutes of the episode. If they can keep up this streak season 10 could be the best season ever!


...sorry, I really liked it ;)

I think the streak will keep up. I think this season is just getting started, and am very excited about future eps from spoilers I've read. I truly believe that this season could go down as one of the best SG-1 seasons ever.:)

starfox
July 28th, 2006, 09:08 PM
Though I thought Shep and Cam were downright mean to McKay. Don't get me wrong, there are eps where I think a harsh word would be warranted, but Rodney didn't seem overly rude or cruel in this ep yet everyone was jumping down his throat. And having Shep and Cam carry around that lemon (and Cam threatening him with it?!) knowing it can give him a horrible allergic reaction? I'm sure that was meant to be amusing, but it just ticked me off. :mad:



Thank you. That bothered me, as well. I know that this is SG-1 and that Sam is the save-the-day science geek so McKay had to take a backseat, but did they have to be so mean about it? McKay has more than redeemed himself. Of course, people who've only watched SG-1 and not Atlantis might not know that, but I'm a huge Atlantis fan, and I love McKay. Watching him get stepped on pi**ed me off.



Okay, actual episode review now.

I've been quite wary of crossovers with these shows, not wanting one's universe to exert too heavy an influence on the other. I'll have to wait until people who don't watch Atlantis post to see if anything was confusing to them (my other major fear about x-overs), but this episode didn't bother me in the slightest. They kept the storyline firmly within the SG-1 universe, only stepping over to the Wraith to add a bit of a threat, but not making it the main conflict (no, I don't have any gripes about Atlantis' "Critical Mass", why do you ask?).

Daniel lovely, the perfect mix of exhausted exasperation and his old passion and determination to change things. In an alternate universe, Daniel is a political activist, he's got the passion and the charisma and the persuasiveness for it.

Of course the Ancients stopped Morgan. Otherwise, it would have been too easy. Besides, it served to make us more exasperated with them, less likely to look at them as saving powers. It makes the Milky Way's fight against the Ori much more epic; it's shaping up to be very David and Goliath. Besides, showing that there is conflict amongst the Ancients about this makes for a great story later, and keeping some Ancients on their high-and-mighty moral pedestals makes them much more interesting characters than they would be if they were all helping us. I like anything that could shape up to be a future storyline; it brings continuity while keeping the show fresh.

Love Cam, though as previously stated, I disliked his attitude toward McKay. I did, however, appreciate it when he stepped towards Rodney all menacing-like and stopped him from making a lewd comment about Sam. It follows the pattern we've had of Cam sticking up for women in that old-fashioned, defending their honor sort of way.

Part of me wanted the plan to be really, really dangerous for the Pegasus galaxy, just so I could hear McKay (or Weir, or Teyla, or someone) tell SG-1 'I think not, leave our galaxy alone, thank you very much'. Not that I don't recognise the Ori as a huge threat to this galaxy, but the part of me that's wary of crossovers doesn't want SG-1 to just be able to come over to Pegasus and use it because it's convenient. I wanted recognition that each group has its own problems and that they can't just bail each other out whenever, because if they do, it then cheapens the experience.

Oh-my-gosh can I just mention how happy I am that we finally won one? We've been getting screwed royally for the last while, which makes this win even sweeter. And I love that we took out the hive ship as well, it just makes for a nice, clean win that doesn't have to be cleaned up in a later Atlantis ep. The timing was right, as well. If we had lost another battle with the Ori at this point, the feeling of despair would have been just too much. Learning that we're not getting assistance from the Ancients (not directly, anyway), but still taking out the ship? It was a needed beacon of hope.

FallenAngelII
July 28th, 2006, 09:09 PM
there something not right about the ancients and ori,

what if the ancients was right, that they are no better then the ori,

what reason why they won't help earth to fight against ori??

1. are ancients scare of ori are too powerfull

2. they can't do anything but to let people die.

3. they don't care about everyone in milky way galaxy

4. what is ancients greatest fear since they ori behind

5. which is good or evil ( Ancients, Ori

There are rule and laws for a reason, to prevent chaos. The Ancients are just very stubborn and stand by their principles. They know themselves that if we fail, the Ori will eventually come for them.

So it's not that they don't care. It's that they believe in us (possibly) and that they believe in their rules.

warped314
July 28th, 2006, 09:10 PM
Been watching both atlantis and sg-1 since they first aired, and I'm going to go with the general opinion of most everyone here: superb episode. I'm going to go check out the credits on this one... :)

npattis
July 28th, 2006, 09:10 PM
What irked me in this episode was the plothole they had from Rising. Weir was NOT the first human since the abandoment of Atlantis to set foot back in the city, it was Colonel Sumner!!!!!!!

the fifth man
July 28th, 2006, 09:11 PM
Oh-my-gosh can I just mention how happy I am that we finally won one? We've been getting screwed royally for the last while, which makes this win even sweeter. And I love that we took out the hive ship as well, it just makes for a nice, clean win that doesn't have to be cleaned up in a later Atlantis ep. The timing was right, as well. If we had lost another battle with the Ori at this point, the feeling of despair would have been just too much. Learning that we're not getting assistance from the Ancients (not directly, anyway), but still taking out the ship? It was a needed beacon of hope.

I couldn't agree more. We needed this win badly, very badly. And even better, it was two for the price of one.:D

Jess H.
July 28th, 2006, 09:11 PM
Around 57 minutes into it.. THAT WAS A KAWOOSH! That's a trade off. Anyone else think that Ben Browder likes sling shotting ships using large gravity field wielding objects? ;)

edit: I'm trying to read all the posts up to mine, but the server is SLOW. Too much fandom.
i spit out my beer when Mitchell said that!

Maj_Cliffhanger
July 28th, 2006, 09:12 PM
To add to my other posts, I must say they are starting to stretch the science a bit though, earlier in the series the science was so much more "smarter".

I think it was season 1 with the black hole that almost destroyed Earth and ate another plaent was much more powerful than this one... Maybe this was a smaller black hole? I hope they start making SG smarter like it used to, that's what got me into it in the first place.

Grin - excellent thought. The episode you mean is A Matter of Time. Unfortunately, it doesn't apply as directly to this episode as you might think. One: size is relative. They never told us how far away the ship was from the black hole and I suspect they were well outside the ecresian(sp) disk.. They could have been light years away! You cannot tell from the VFX. Two: the time dialation effect as seen in A Matter of Time was 'in advance of the gravity well' because the active stargate casued 'a lensing effect'. No active stargate - no lensing effect. The science here holds up just fine.

I also noted... okay, so we have a outgoaing supergate connection that is pretty permenant.... but it's to Pegasus, not the Ori Galaxy. There is nothing to prevent the Ori from forming a second supergate connection to the Milkyway EXCEPT the fact that they don't know how we managed to block/redirect this one and may fear we can do it again at will... That puzzle may keep them stalled for a little while, but not forever.

I did catch one other blooper I haven't seen mentioned. Daniel when he first saw the hologram says something like, "I thiink I had her as a teacher in grade five." Oops!!! That's a Canadian turn of phrase. In the US, we would say, "...fifth grade." Such a tiny little nitpick though, all it did was make me smile.

I want more episodes like this!

FallenAngelII
July 28th, 2006, 09:13 PM
I doubt she was going to say that the weapon isn't on either world. Sure, it seems like it and it would be logical, but why would she thread a fine line almost breaking the rules by coming down here to help us and then tell Daniel that he had the answer he needed already?

It's either on one of the worlds or going there will give us clues to where it is now. It might be that it's not on those planets, but going there will bring us closer to it.

Fsudryden
July 28th, 2006, 09:13 PM
I personally believe this is going to lead to the Ancients helping us in the future. She was willing to help us and even mentioned others as well. If events get worse or plots by the Ori get revealed they might need to intervene. It will take an ancient event thats like pearl harbor to wake them from there sleep, but I think it will happen.

I also loved Vala in this episode. Since O'neil left the team has missed a person with a more simplistic approach to problems and she brings that.

I stood up and cheered when the Ori ship was destroyed. I had never done that ........ Well I did that when SG-1 defeated the Goa'uld and replicators. But, that was a great moment for me.

The fact that the plan worked was fantastic because I didnt think the writers would allow them to pull it off. I was so geeking out when the koowoosh appeared.

I have been watching both series from the begginning and I own all the box sets. This to me felt like the time that Sam made the star go SuperNova. And from what I read this is not the end of the plot twists and good episodes. I think most of you know what I mean.

This was the week SG-1 finnally had a better episode then Atlantis.

Hurray Sg-1!!!!!!

Sela
July 28th, 2006, 09:14 PM
The best part of this episode was the look on Daniel's face as they came into sight of Atlantis. I actually teared up watching him. It really felt like he had come into his own in this episode. I loved the cross-over and the all of the multi-team interaction, but this was Daniel's episode all the way round.

That's not to take anything away from everyone else in the show. Watching SG-1 join up with their SGA conterparts was quite a rush. I must admit the fangirl in me giggled just a bit at seeing Cam and Shep in the same space and as always, Rodney and Sam were a hoot. When Rodney thanked her for what we knew happened in "Grace Under Pressure" and Sam's face screwed up in a "eeeww" expression when he said he was in the dark I laughed out loud till it hurt. They work so well together and their timing with each other is so great - we've got to have more! Shep and the lemon - priceless. Cam & Rodney on the ship with the lemon - hilarious.

One point though - why did they need to take Vala with them? Was it just to keep an eye on her? They can't keep babysitting her as they go off on missions. That's going to get old very quickly. Although she was instrumental in speeding things along for them, it didn't make any sense for them to bring her in the first place. Maybe Landry made them take her with them? ;)

Good episode. Enjoyed it.

killerz298
July 28th, 2006, 09:15 PM
Highly unlikey as the gate on the Pegasus end is very close to a black hole - too close to risk going through without your ship getting ripped apart by the gravity of the black hole.
Well when they sling shotted around the black hole both ships didn't seem to get pulled in and seemed to make it around at least up to the gate just fine so I don't see getting sucked in or being ripped apart being a problem. However as mentioned earlier, the ships that could fit through are much smaller so maybe they would have issues with the force.

Also before the supergate was activated I was hoping to see a few darts shoot through the gate and get flushed by the toilet bowl ship!!

O'Neil
July 28th, 2006, 09:17 PM
I must say that I am completely surprised that we actually won a battle in this epsiode. But not only that... we took out an ori ship. That in itself was a big highlight, but I must say that best part of the show was Daniel figuring out that Morgan Lafay was in Atlantis the entire time posing as a hologram. I was glad to see that they are getting back to the Ancients/ascension storyline.

Annubis' hitman
July 28th, 2006, 09:17 PM
Wow

Wow

Did i mention wow

I actually watched it both times it aired and i taped it so i could watch again.

It was an amazingly good episode.

The whole Morgan Le Faye part was insanely good.

One of the best SG-1 episodes ever maybe!

I also loved the actor interactions.
Mckay with carter and cam
Sheppard with cam
weir with daniel and vala
all of them in the meeting room
ok lets just say the whole episode acting wise was great.

Story line.
Awesome.

Good episode.

It left you with that feeling that we won because we destroyed a ship and activated the supergate, but we lost because the ancients did not decide to help us and we are alone.

warmbeachbrat
July 28th, 2006, 09:19 PM
I really, really liked the interplay between Sam, McKay, Emerson, & Mitchell when they came up with their final plan. The brainstorming and firing off of one another was very nice to see.

Starxgate
July 28th, 2006, 09:19 PM
http://img143.imageshack.us/img143/4486/djss5.gif

Maj_Cliffhanger
July 28th, 2006, 09:21 PM
I have a question though, can the gate now be used to travel from Pegasus to Milky Way? If so, that gate better be defended big time as we don't need any wraith figuring out what it is and having a instant ride to the Milky Way (if they don't already know about its existance and how to upgrade the hyperdrive from the happenings in earlier episodes).


If I understood how this worked - and admittedly I might not - the answer is 'no'. The direction was from the Ori Galaxy to the Milkyway. We caused it to disconnect at the Ori end, not the Milkyway end and it 'jumped' to the Pegasus little gate - so the direction of flow would be from the Milkyway to Pegasus. And any Ori ship going through the supergate to check it out would be destroyed because it is too big to reintigrate. However, in time, the Pegasus gate will get pulled into the black hole and eventually be torn apart. How soon that is will depend on how far away it was when it was activated. I don't think we have a way to anchor it in space the way the Ori apparently can their supergates.

KairezLightkeeper
July 28th, 2006, 09:22 PM
http://img143.imageshack.us/img143/4486/djss5.gifNice... One of those showing the Ori ship's unfortunate run-in with a giant kawhoosh would be just awesome, a must-have for signatures everywhere...

Jimbo-DR
July 28th, 2006, 09:23 PM
This episdoe was amazing. But it keeps making me think that the Ori are much less of a threat than we think. Obviously the Ancients are not concerned, and their usually pretty smart about this kind of stuff.

tofuchef
July 28th, 2006, 09:23 PM
two birds with one stone.. damn that was awesome.. but still.. even though the ori ship was destroyed.. it still seem intact at the back..(not talking about the front since the kawooosh got the back end).. damn those ships are strong..

Nolamom
July 28th, 2006, 09:26 PM
I don't think Fluffy quite trusts Morgan LaFey either...
http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j55/Nolamom/FluffyconsultsAncient.jpg

KairezLightkeeper
July 28th, 2006, 09:26 PM
two birds with one stone.. damn that was awesome.. but still.. even though the ori ship was destroyed.. it still seem intact at the back..(not talking about the front since the kawooosh got the back end).. damn those ships are strong..Three birds, actually. ;-) A Wraith hive ship, an Ori battleship, and one Supergate all clogged up... At least, that's how I see it.

Starxgate
July 28th, 2006, 09:26 PM
Nice... One of those showing the Ori ship's unfortunate run-in with a giant kawhoosh would be just awesome, a must-have for signatures everywhere...

http://forum.gateworld.net/showpost.php?p=5575100&postcount=172

Kem Rixen
July 28th, 2006, 09:28 PM
When I first heard about the crossover I was thinking the Jetsons meet the Flintstones, I'm so glad the experience wasn't like that at all. Definitly a strong episode all around.

Sela
July 28th, 2006, 09:28 PM
Though I thought Shep and Cam were downright mean to McKay. Don't get me wrong, there are eps where I think a harsh word would be warranted, but Rodney didn't seem overly rude or cruel in this ep yet everyone was jumping down his throat. And having Shep and Cam carry around that lemon (and Cam threatening him with it?!) knowing it can give him a horrible allergic reaction? I'm sure that was meant to be amusing, but it just ticked me off. :mad:
I have to say that while I thought the lemon bit was funny, I agree that everyone was being very mean to Rodney. He can get to be a bit much but Cam was jumping down his throat from the beginning which I thought was quite rude since he had never met McKay before. I did enjoy the episode but it was a bit like the "cool kids" in high school picking on the geek.

killerz298
July 28th, 2006, 09:29 PM
If I understood how this worked - and admittedly I might not - the answer is 'no'. The direction was from the Ori Galaxy to the Milkyway. We caused it to disconnect at the Ori end, not the Milkyway end and it 'jumped' to the Pegasus little gate - so the direction of flow would be from the Milkyway to Pegasus. And any Ori ship going through the supergate to check it out would be destroyed because it is too big to reintigrate. However, in time, the Pegasus gate will get pulled into the black hole and eventually be torn apart. How soon that is will depend on how far away it was when it was activated. I don't think we have a way to anchor it in space the way the Ori apparently can their supergates.
If I am not mistaken, the little Pegasus gate dialed the little milkyway gate and then the little milkyway gate jumped to the supergate making a connection for travel direction Pegasus ------> Milkyway.


http://forum.gateworld.net/showpost.php?p=5575100&postcount=172
AWESOME!!

FallenAngelII
July 28th, 2006, 09:29 PM
Nothing can go through the super-gate. because it's a one-way portal from Pegasus to the Milky Way. Otherwise, the nuke would not have detonated on our side.

ToasterOnFire
July 28th, 2006, 09:30 PM
What irked me in this episode was the plothole they had from Rising. Weir was NOT the first human since the abandoment of Atlantis to set foot back in the city, it was Colonel Sumner!!!!!!!
But what about the AU Weir from Before I Sleep who was brought back in time and went into stasis when the Ancients left? She woke up and rotated the ZPMs before the Atlantis team arrived, so she could have been detected then. Or did they not detect her because she was already there?

gatewonderer114
July 28th, 2006, 09:32 PM
Wow, I loved this episode. The opening scene with Daniel looking out towards Atlantis and him running to the front of the ship to see it. The interactions where very good with both cast, and especially when they got to the part with Morgan LaFey. To bad that the Ancients won't help, but they will soon see the light, hopefully. Still, we got one of the Ori ships!

I give this episode: Three thumbs up

captain jake
July 28th, 2006, 09:35 PM
I don't think Fluffy quite trusts Morgan LaFey either...
http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j55/Nolamom/FluffyconsultsAncient.jpg

Does anybody think that is funny?.............. Sorry I just had to say something. I like the editing though o ya I put it in spoiler tags just so I didn't take up space.

This is a question for starxgate, what image host do you use for that?


This episdoe was amazing. But it keeps making me think that the Ori are much less of a threat than we think. Obviously the Ancients are not concerned, and their usually pretty smart about this kind of stuff.

I disagree I think the ancients are extremely worried about it it's just not there way. I mean the universe is infinite how many things like this do you think are going on all over the place? I would put money on the fact that our little corner of the universe is more insignificant than we could ever imagine. If the ancients had the choice of being destroyed or destroying the Ori they would destroy the Ori. It just has not escalated to that point at this time I think they still have allot of faith in us and the other races in our little corner of space.

Zoser
July 28th, 2006, 09:38 PM
Overall, this was an excellent ep. I wish they would write eps like this more often. It had action, tension, and great character interactions- all around great. Best of both s3 and s10 so far.

Though I thought Shep and Cam were downright mean to McKay. Don't get me wrong, there are eps where I think a harsh word would be warranted, but Rodney didn't seem overly rude or cruel in this ep yet everyone was jumping down his throat. And having Shep and Cam carry around that lemon (and Cam threatening him with it?!) knowing it can give him a horrible allergic reaction? I'm sure that was meant to be amusing, but it just ticked me off. :mad:

Oh, and I thought that the approaching mass around the black whole would be three dimensional instead of two? Like a sphere instead of looking like a spiral galaxy? *science wank* :D

Anyway, I'm rewatching it now to try and erase "Irresistable" from my brain. :S

I didn't hate this episode - I watched it twice. And that is only the second time that has happened in two year. It drew on the past and needed the collaboration of three groups For once the ending wasn't a foregone conclusion. But I thought the ending was not clear enough. The bombs were sent to the Hive ship? If so it was exactly at the precise point to cause the other gate to jump to the supergate. That's some fancy shooting or fantastic luck. But it was indeed suspenseful.
The lemon thing was juvenial not very funny.

killerz298
July 28th, 2006, 09:41 PM
That's some fancy shooting or fantastic luck.
THATS STARGATE!!! :sam:

kmwhite
July 28th, 2006, 09:41 PM
I doubt she was going to say that the weapon isn't on either world. Sure, it seems like it and it would be logical, but why would she thread a fine line almost breaking the rules by coming down here to help us and then tell Daniel that he had the answer he needed already?

(...)Shep and the lemon - priceless. (...)

I'm going to have to say I agree, on both counts. Contradictory I know, but accurate. I found the exchange between Shep and Cam to be rather humorous; it showed the vast similarities of the character. I, however, found the Cam/McKay incident to be unnecessary, but you have to admit you saw it coming after the Cam/Shep moment.


One point though - why did they need to take Vala with them? Was it just to keep an eye on her? They can't keep babysitting her as they go off on missions. That's going to get old very quickly. Although she was instrumental in speeding things along for them, it didn't make any sense for them to bring her in the first place. Maybe Landry made them take her with them? ;)

How else is Vala gonna get some off-world time before being officially instated on SG1? (I'm hoping she get's SG1, if they officially put here on a different SG team or doing something else, I'll be @#%&@*$).


I don't think Fluffy quite trusts Morgan LaFey either...
http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j55/Nolamom/FluffyconsultsAncient.jpg

Does anyone else REALLY like the black outfits more than the green ones? They have a special/Black ops feel. Me like.

As far as character development, does anyone else think that Vala is coming to grips with how big of a situation this really is?
Starxgate's AniGif (http://www.fileden.com/files/2006/7/16/133535/Vala.gif)

kmwhite

Jess H.
July 28th, 2006, 09:44 PM
i was complaining earlier about the ancients not helping us, but what if they can't? i thought a while back they told us they ascended because of a plague. the same plague the ori unleashed on us. maybe they won't help cuz they don't want to get get their asses kicked again. i mean, what's beyond ascension?

captain jake
July 28th, 2006, 09:44 PM
I didn't hate this episode - I watched it twice. And that is only the second time that has happened in two year. It drew on the past and needed the collaboration of three groups For once the ending wasn't a foregone conclusion. But I thought the ending was not clear enough. The bombs were sent to the Hive ship? If so it was exactly at the precise point to cause the other gate to jump to the supergate. That's some fancy shooting or fantastic luck. But it was indeed suspenseful.
The lemon thing was juvenial not very funny.

I agree it was way to big of a fluke I believe the ancients had a little something to do with it. Even though Daniel thinks they have abandoned us I still think there are allot of them watching over us.

tofuchef
July 28th, 2006, 09:44 PM
But I thought the ending was not clear enough. The bombs were sent to the Hive ship? If so it was exactly at the precise point to cause the other gate to jump to the supergate. That's some fancy shooting or fantastic luck. But it was indeed suspenseful.


it was pure luck... they didn't mean to have it connect... thats why sam told teal'c to leave because they were going to destroy the wraith ship with the nukes as their jammings were interfered by the black whole.. and so when the ship exploded.. the explosion of 2 nukes as well as the wraith explosion sent flying through the wormhole.. then that big energy hit the ori ship.. and it drew even more power..

kmwhite
July 28th, 2006, 09:45 PM
What irked me in this episode was the plothole they had from Rising. Weir was NOT the first human since the abandoment of Atlantis to set foot back in the city, it was Colonel Sumner!!!!!!!

This may have been said (server is still lagging too much for me to re-read all posts), or I may be wrong, but after being :

Asleep and rotating ZPMs after the evac, wouldn't she be the first? It's during the time after the evacuation, but prior to rearival.

L.A. Doyle
July 28th, 2006, 09:49 PM
Good ep! The end was awesome. I'm tired, so no use in trying to critique at the moment. But I'd watch it again. Loved the crossover!!!

lissa1000
July 28th, 2006, 09:50 PM
I loved this episode. Rodney was a bit annoying, but it was easy enough to overlook. Again, I loved Vala. Her interaction with Daniel was great. I really like how comfortable Sam and Cameron are with eachother, they are co-leaders. Very well done. That was about 10 times better than Irresistible.

coolove
July 28th, 2006, 09:51 PM
I really enjoyed this episode. I loved the interaction between the two teams but found it a little strange that Sheppard keeps a lemon in his jacket?!?! Okay... but all and all it was good.

captain jake
July 28th, 2006, 09:52 PM
What irked me in this episode was the plothole they had from Rising. Weir was NOT the first human since the abandoment of Atlantis to set foot back in the city, it was Colonel Sumner!!!!!!!

I believe she was talking about how weir brought her team, she was in command it was her expedition. I don't believe she was talking about the first person to physically step through the gate.

Zoser
July 28th, 2006, 09:53 PM
If I am not mistaken, the little Pegasus gate dialed the little milkyway gate and then the little milkyway gate jumped to the supergate making a connection for travel direction Pegasus ------> Milkyway.


AWESOME!!
And if the Ori ships in our (Milky Way) galaxy go to gate home through the open gate they will be sucked into the black hole

Maj_Cliffhanger
July 28th, 2006, 09:54 PM
If I am not mistaken, the little Pegasus gate dialed the little milkyway gate and then the little milkyway gate jumped to the supergate making a connection for travel direction Pegasus ------> Milkyway.


I'm still not sure, but I don't think so. You can't dial into an active gate. We dialed into the small Milkyway gate next to the supergate, causing a energy surge that broke the connection at the Ori end and providing a natural conduit for the suddenly rudderless worm hole to 'follow'/ allowing it to 'jump' to the Pegasus galaxy. Milkyway ------->Pegasus. Otherwise the wormhole would have to shut down and be re-established. We basically broke the connection and 'reversed the polarity' (Shrug!)

Just my take on it - I suppose they'll explain which direction it is sooner or later!

BIG EDIT TO EAT MY OWN WORDS HERE!
I cannot believe I was so blind and partially deaf! Somehow I got it into my head that the Ori supergate was active throughout this epi - and of course, it isn't! JEESH! And I misunderstood what Sam and Rodney were saying about the plan - It took a third viewing before it all hit me over the head with a sledge hammer. Well, d'uh! The direction is indeed clearly Pegasus----->Milkyway and I am now feeling like a giant idiot.

Humble pie indeed - someone pass the salt!

PG15
July 28th, 2006, 09:58 PM
OH. MY. *****ING. GOD.

OH. MY. *****ING. GOD.

OH. MY. *****ING. GOD.

I...damn, that....holy jesus...that....oh man....I...oh god...

OH. MY. *****ING. GOD.!!!!!!!

Ahem, just give me a minute....ok....

OH. MY. *****ING. GOD.!!!!!!!!!!!

Alright alright, that's enough. So, was this an AWESOME episode or WHAT?!. I was:

1. Cheering during the teaser

2. "Conducting" the SG1 theme.

3. unable to NOT smile/laugh during the entire episode

4. unable to close my mouth during the last 5 minutes of the episode. That's NEVER happened on a Stargate episode before. NEVER.

And I have never cursed so much in a Gateworld post!!! Holy crap dudes!!!! That WAS AWESOME!!!

This is going in the top 5 of SG1...hell, the top 5 of the franchise!

Ok, the points:

This episode probably featured the best bantering between anybody in a looong time. McKay/Sam, Shep/Mitch, Danny/Vala, you name it, it's all there, and it's allllll goooood.

The Danny vs. Morgan scenes were almost as "intense" as the end of "The Fifth Race", by which I mean the scope of the show just expanded about a hundred times. Jumping from "we're searching for a weapon" to "We're in a much greater universe...and we need to search for a weapon", if you know what I mean.

The end scene, duh. It was more intense than Camelot. There, I said it. I don't think I can phrase it any better.

Nice little Farscape reference. :D

Emerson is really starting to grow on me.

The music was damn awesome in this episode. Score another point for Joel!

The SFX folks deserve an emmy. There is not doubt WHATSOEVER. Even my mom, a Sci-fi hater, loved the black hole SFX.

There are so many other points and little moments...I mean, it was just...WOW. My hand is still cold from that last sequence. Just...WOW.

So, I have now 2 deities in Bridge Studios, Martin Gero and Brad Wright. One more and I'll have a Holy Trinity! :D

Score: 10x10x10x10x10x10x10x10x10/10

Myn McGeek, Third Sentinel
July 28th, 2006, 10:01 PM
Two questions:

Why did they bring Vala along? I'm not saying I didn't like it, but I don't see their reasoning.

Also, where's Oma?! I never got what happened to her in "Threads", but I would've thought Daniel would at least mention her, maybe as an example of other ascended beings who broke the rules for Lafay.

Other than that, I really liked the episode. :D No need to rehash what other people have already said, so that's all I'll say.

captain jake
July 28th, 2006, 10:06 PM
Two questions:

Why did they bring Vala along? I'm not saying I didn't like it, but I don't see their reasoning.

Also, where's Oma?! I never got what happened to her in "Threads", but I would've thought Daniel would at least mention her, maybe as an example of other ascended beings who broke the rules for Lafay.

Other than that, I really liked the episode. :D No need to rehash what other people have already said, so that's all I'll say.

I asked myself the same question I thought she would be restricted to the base. It got really annoying when she kept mouthing off to Morgan but weir kinda shut her up which I thought was awesome. Anyways the fact is that I don't have a good answer for you.

Well apparently she is engaged in a never ending Battle with Anubis. I don't know why he would mention her chances are Morgan doesn't even know Oma.

Sauron18
July 28th, 2006, 10:10 PM
I asked myself the same question I thought she would be restricted to the base. It got really annoying when she kept mouthing off to Morgan but weir kinda shut her up which I thought was awesome. Anyways the fact is that I don't have a good answer for you.

Well apparently she is engaged in a never ending Battle with Anubis. I don't know why he would mention her chances are Morgan doesn't even know Oma.
If it wasn't for Vala they wouldn't know where the other two planets are....

As for Oma, she's fighting Anubis.

captain jake
July 28th, 2006, 10:12 PM
If it wasn't for Vala they wouldn't know where the other two planets are....

As for Oma, she's fighting Anubis.

I disagree Morgan would have got that knowledge to Daniel if Vala was there or not. I am not saying I didn't like Vala being there I just don't understand why she was there.

Konman72
July 28th, 2006, 10:13 PM
I'm still not sure, but I don't think so. You can't dial into an active gate. We dialed into the small Milkyway gate next to the supergate, causing a energy surge that broke the connection at the Ori end and providing a natural conduit for the suddenly rudderless worm hole to 'follow'/ allowing it to 'jump' to the Pegasus galaxy. Milkyway ------->Pegasus. Otherwise the wormhole would have to shut down and be re-established. We basically broke the connection and 'reversed the polarity' (Shrug!)

Just my take on it - I suppose they'll explain which direction it is sooner or later!
I think you're messing up in thinking the Supergate was active to the Ori galaxy, which it certainly was not. The Ori had closed the gate and it was sitting idle. So the wormhole goes from Pegasus to MW. Go check back for the last few episodes, they mention not being able to dial out (because they were being blocked, not because the wormhole was active). Also all showings of the gate were of it off, not active. There hadn't been a connection between the supergate and the Ori galaxy since the end of Camelot (or beginning of Flesh and Blood).

So, in summary, the gate goes from Pegasus to the Milky Way.

illuminarok
July 28th, 2006, 10:14 PM
I guess I am the only one who saw the whole thing coming all along. Not that I didn't appreciate it, because I most certainly did, but I knew something was going to happen to the wraith ship to cause the destruction of the Ori ship as soon as Teal'c picked up the Ori ship coming in. And when I saw it constantly hovering over the supergate I was like yep, the kawoosh is going to destroy it, but I am not sure exactly how yet. The rest was just details.

Now as for the supergate connection and how long it will last - remember there is a time distortion field the closer you get to the event horizon of the black hole. So time slows down for the Stargate, allowing the connection to last exponentially longer times than it would normally. Even if you stand there and watch the gate go into the event horizon, the connection on the Supergate side will still be there for a very long time afterwards.

They need to salvage as much of that Ori ship as possible to reverse engineer as many systems as possible so that they can find a weakness in the technology or at least come up with some make shift Ori class weapons and shields. The Asgard will be very obliged to assist I am sure.

As for the gate direction, I'd say its still the same way since every other time a connection jump has been made the gate still flowed the same way. I would cite examples here but I don't feel like looking it up - just think Antarctica when O'Neil and Carter ended up there thinking they were on some cold planet with a nonfunctioning DHD.

The reason this connection is a bad idea is this... the Ori have subspace communications with all their ships - or at least the ones here in the MW. They know they lost a ship due to this event and they will be there to check out what happened in a short time - possibly stopping Earth from salvaging Ori technology by pushing it on through the event horizon of the Supergate or something. They may even rebuild it... That's besides the point however because my main point is this: they will be able to use their advanced knowledge of wormhole physics to figure out where that wormhole is connected to, and they will go there. Where is it? Pegasus. Also, I wouldn't be suprised to find out they have a way to disengage that wormhole occupying the Supergate.

That is all.

majorsal
July 28th, 2006, 10:14 PM
my views on the ep tonight?

it was alright.

i don't watch atlantis, so that's a strike against it (for me) because i don't know the characters really. i DO know mckay, and...

i felt sorry for him. i know him and sam have issues, but sheppard and mitchell were mean to him. (((mckay)))

the daniel and vala end was interesting. vala didn't irritate me, though i wouldn't mind daniel stopping his pulling vala around stuff.

the odyssey ship stuff was alright. to be honest, i think my mind must have been wandering in spots, because i really didn't know 'what' their mission was. :o

my only complaint is MachoMitchell is back again. :( :rolleyes:

so, on a scale of 1 to 10, i give it a 5. i enjoyed last week's 'morpheus' more.





sally :sam:

Galilahi
July 28th, 2006, 10:15 PM
I LOVED it!!

Cam + Shep + lemon= me nearly peeing myself with laughter.

I felt sorry for teal'c sitting in that ship by himself.

did anyone else think of CNN with the radio delay?

of course the Sam/McKay banter was great. and i loved that Cam got in Rodney's face.

Daniel, again the moral compass, bringing the issue not only to the immediate but the universe as a whole.

i like that the ancients have flaws and are stubborn to a fault. i guess it just goes to show that even if you have infinite power and knowledge, you don't have infinite wisdom.

i worship at the altar of the SFX people. amazing the Ori ship getting split like that. talk about two birds with one stone.

Myn McGeek, Third Sentinel
July 28th, 2006, 10:16 PM
If it wasn't for Vala they wouldn't know where the other two planets are....

As for Oma, she's fighting Anubis.
Sure, she was helpful while she was there, but why'd she go in the first place?

How do we know? I mean, it's as good an explanation as any, but do we really know?

majorsal
July 28th, 2006, 10:18 PM
This episode was AWESOME! Been watching both shows since the movie and this is what SG is all about! I loved everything about the episode from the storyline to the character interactions to the effects! I must honestly say that I am starting to like Vala a lot. I was completely against her at first but I am starting to warm up to her. I am still not so crazy about Mitchell just yet, wish he was more like Sheppard, but I don't HATE the character.

i don't know where else to ask this (what thread?), but how is sheppard in comparison to mitchell? (please remember i don't watch atlantis)






sally :sam:

Sam fisher
July 28th, 2006, 10:19 PM
Sure, she was helpful while she was there, but why'd she go in the first place?

How do we know? I mean, it's as good an explanation as any, but do we really know?
Because Landry told Daniel if he wanted Vala to stay, Daniel will have to keep her in line and he can't do that while he is in Pegasus, can he?

captain jake
July 28th, 2006, 10:19 PM
Sure, she was helpful while she was there, but why'd she go in the first place?

How do we know? I mean, it's as good an explanation as any, but do we really know?

It's what has been given to us until they tell us otherwise that is what happened. O, and theres the fact that if they had stopped Anubis would be back causing a whole bunch of trouble. Nope they are still fighting perhaps one day they will come back but I think the point was that they would be in a never ending battle.

erinanderson
July 28th, 2006, 10:21 PM
Come on, someone had to do a fist pump when the Ori ship was cut in half...

Hell yeah I did the fist pump. Good stuff!

Myn McGeek, Third Sentinel
July 28th, 2006, 10:22 PM
I don't know why he would mention her chances are Morgan doesn't even know Oma.
More of a reason why Daniel would tell her. I thought he might mention Oma to let Morgan know that there was more that she could and should do. I mean, in the end she was going to say something and then she was stopped, but I just expected him to say something about it. Not to mention that Oma's situation was one of the reasons why Daniel descended.

Paradox0
July 28th, 2006, 10:25 PM
Come on, someone had to do a fist pump when the Ori ship was cut in half...
Never posted here before, but I loved this episode so much and did exactly what you did that I felt it was a good time as any! Nice to see us finally having something go our way for a change. Best episode in a long long while :)

Myn McGeek, Third Sentinel
July 28th, 2006, 10:25 PM
Because Landry told Daniel if he wanted Vala to stay, Daniel will have to keep her in line and he can't do that while he is in Pegasus, can he?
OK. That makes sense.

Starxgate
July 28th, 2006, 10:26 PM
I find it interesting that they are repeating the specific episode The Ripple Effect. Someone brought up in another thread that an alternate SG-1 team had the same black uniform on as the SG-1 Team that visited Atlantis. Are we really watching our SG-1 or an alternate SG-1 ?

KillerMercury
July 28th, 2006, 10:27 PM
Loved it, LOVED IT, LOVED IT!

Dunno if anyone's posted this, but did anyone else feel a little Farscape-y with Cam talking about using the black hole's gravity to slingshot them out?

captain jake
July 28th, 2006, 10:27 PM
More of a reason why Daniel would tell her. I thought he might mention Oma to let Morgan know that there was more that she could and should do. I mean, in the end she was going to say something and then she was stopped, but I just expected him to say something about it. Not to mention that Oma's situation was one of the reasons why Daniel descended.

Sorry, I just don't See the relevance.

When Daniel said there has to be more out there Morgan said not enough so obviously Morgan knows there are some out there. I mean he didn't drop Olin's name and he did the exact same things as Oma.

I don't believe there was any logical reason for Daniel to mention Oma but thats JMO.

majorsal
July 28th, 2006, 10:30 PM
I have to say that while I thought the lemon bit was funny, I agree that everyone was being very mean to Rodney. He can get to be a bit much but Cam was jumping down his throat from the beginning which I thought was quite rude since he had never met McKay before. I did enjoy the episode but it was a bit like the "cool kids" in high school picking on the geek.

and i agree. but what's really weird is i don't watch atlantis and when mckay was on sg1 (years ago), i thought he was a jerk. but in tonight's ep, i was sticking up for him!





sally :sam:

suse
July 28th, 2006, 10:31 PM
Wow! I thought my days of liking an episode were over. This is what I've been waiting for. Great job Brad et al!

Myn McGeek, Third Sentinel
July 28th, 2006, 10:35 PM
I don't believe there was any logical reason for Daniel to mention Oma but thats JMO.
I didn't mean to say that he should have mentioned her, I just expected him to bring her up because she had a lot to do with the conversation.

verbalkint
July 28th, 2006, 10:35 PM
What irked me in this episode was the plothole they had from Rising. Weir was NOT the first human since the abandoment of Atlantis to set foot back in the city, it was Colonel Sumner!!!!!!!
No, it was in fact Dr. Weir. Remember that in "Before I Sleep" Weir was actually there in a stasis pod when the expedition arrived because she conviced one of Atlantis's scientist to implement safeguards to the impending zpm failure. So in a weird way she ended up being the first.

FallenAngelII
July 28th, 2006, 10:37 PM
it was pure luck... they didn't mean to have it connect... thats why sam told teal'c to leave because they were going to destroy the wraith ship with the nukes as their jammings were interfered by the black whole.. and so when the ship exploded.. the explosion of 2 nukes as well as the wraith explosion sent flying through the wormhole.. then that big energy hit the ori ship.. and it drew even more power..

No, they planned for that all along. They planned for it even when fighting the Wraith ship (remember McKay saying that the Wraith ship was in position when it was about to pass by the Stargate?).


And if the Ori ships in our (Milky Way) galaxy go to gate home through the open gate they will be sucked into the black hole

You cannot dial out of an active gate. Once that connection shuts down (which it shouldn't since the Stargate is drawing power from the black hole), they can dial out again. And since we didn't program the Supergate to only dial to the Black Hole Gate, they'll still dial back home.

NotAscended
July 28th, 2006, 10:40 PM
I find it interesting that they are repeating the specific episode The Ripple Effect. Someone brought up in another thread that an alternate SG-1 team had the same black uniform on as the SG-1 Team that visited Atlantis. Are we really watching our SG-1 or an alternate SG-1 ?

Had that same thought randomly pop up in this episode. However, I'm pretty sure we're watching our SG-1, but they may eventually face whatever difficulty the alt SG-1 faced because of the "wire" comment in Ripple Effect.

captain jake
July 28th, 2006, 10:41 PM
I didn't mean to say that he should have mentioned her, I just expected him to bring her up because she had a lot to do with the conversation.

Well I don't know what you think the difference is but in my dictionary "mention" and "bring up" are the exact same thing.

Hatusu
July 28th, 2006, 10:44 PM
I want to hug Brad Wright for writing this episode. OK, I will. :)
http://bestsmileys.com/hugging/4.gif

nyxlily
July 28th, 2006, 10:44 PM
I adored this episode. Like most people, apparently.

More Vala/Teal'c comparison: She has no knowledge of Earth cultures or references at all. Like Teal'c in the beginning (and even with the Easter Bunny bit from last season) "What is an Oprah?" I know people don't like to compare the two, but I'm pointing out the lack of knowledge rather than the situation in which they both joined the SGC. I thought it was cute.

I sorta understand why they had Teal'c all by his lonesome self.. he's a pivotal part of the plan at HIS end.. while if he was on the Odyssey with the rest of SG-1, he'd just be standing around. Still, he was allllllll by himself :(


The exchange between McKay and Carter where he thanked her for being there for him was very sweet.. until it was revealed that she was 'partially naked'. Then the true McKay resurfaces in the space of 10 seconds! I love him and I don't even know why. I don't think I'd want him to change despite he is a pain.

Carter had more of a leadership role last week than this. She was being her scientist self and Mitchell was clearly in charge. So... are they gonna switch off now on an episode by episode basis? Or was it just me?

I don't know WHY Vala was there also. I like the explanations provided so far: Off-world experiences (in a relatively safe environment where she could learn the procedures of being on a team) or Daniel is in charge of keeping an eye on her (per Landry's order). I don't mind Vala but she did annoy me with the constant interruptions. THANKFULLY, it was all a lead up to the incredibly intense and passionate argument Daniel had with Morgan.

That was THE highlight of the episode for me. The conversation/argument. When Daniel pratically hissed "I'm so sick of this" I did a double take. He who was so calm and logical, so patiently finding clues to support his suspicion of this 'hologram', suddenly burst out like that? I have heard of this squeeing thing.. and I think I did that. I loved seeing him so passionate about something, anything. And MS is sooooo good at those roles. I loved that it hinted at his ascension. Morgan knew him from those days, which was surprising. I just loved that entire scene in the end. She looked like she SO wanted to help, and she did.. she crossed that line. I know he said we won't be seeing her again.. but I hope we do.

The ship/stargate story was also interesting, though it was more entertainment in watching McKay and Carter interact than the actual science behind it. Oh, which reminds me, whoever said the 'techno babble' made/defined/whatever Stargate, I absolutely, totally, and adamantly disagree. It was the characters, the plots, the stories, THE CHARACTERS, that define Stargate. Always have, always will. If I wanted techno babble, I'd watch Star Trek.. which was FILLED with it. Entire episodes were devoted to it. But that's for another thread.

I was happy with the ending, despite it being so coincidental that they accomplished their objectives while blowing up two enemy ships. Hey, its happened before in Stargate history and no doubt it will happen again. Perhaps one of the above posters is correct.. they had help from some higher beings.

I love love love Brad Wright stories. I have yet to see one (not a clip show) that I hadn't liked. I only wish he could write more for SG-1 :/

As to the crossover itself.. I loved it. I liked Weir, she was there but didn't take the spotlight, but rather supported the Ascended/Hologram story admirably. I don't watch Atlantis that much (but I do) so.. did she grew her hair? I really loved it! Sorry, had to throw that bit in there.

Also, I really really don't like Sheppard but he was all right here. Hey, didn't he shoot McKay back in season 1? :D

McKay is my favorite from Atlantis. I really really don't know why.

Well, that was a lot of rambling.. just sharing some thoughts. Wish I could bring up something controversial to discuss.. but can't think of anything.

GateTrek2004
July 28th, 2006, 10:45 PM
I find it interesting that they are repeating the specific episode The Ripple Effect. Someone brought up in another thread that an alternate SG-1 team had the same black uniform on as the SG-1 Team that visited Atlantis. Are we really watching our SG-1 or an alternate SG-1 ?

The Black Uniformed SG-1 in Ripple Effect NEVER made it to Atlantis becuase carter was able to break out of the brig and prevent them from getting to atlantis, and the fack that we even saw that black sg-1 sent thru the wormhole back to there reality means we are seeing OUR SG-1.

FallenAngelII
July 28th, 2006, 10:49 PM
Uhm... nyxhili, they're doing a very poor job of making Vala seem like the clueless non-Tau'ri. She uttering typical Earth-sayings like "What, make her write 'I shall not interfere' 2000 times".

Hatusu
July 28th, 2006, 10:52 PM
Wow, reading this thread, and also other boards, I really am the cheese that stood alone.
Yup. Sorry. :D I loved it. Have fun with Teal'c.

Long-time Gater

nyxlily
July 28th, 2006, 10:56 PM
Teal'c was not clueless about certain things either. They're bound to pick up bits and pieces.. and with how often Vala gets into trouble, they might have made that reference to her at any random time. Did you expect someone who was immersed in a certain culture (for weeks now, counting last season) to NOT pick up a THING? Or did you expect them to know EVERYTHING from those same weeks? I've been in the US for numerous years and I'm still picking up random bits of pop culture references I had no clue about.

Oh, btw, on a totally unrelated topic: I never post in anti or pro threads because.. I can see both sides of the story. But I must say, if the antis had had their way, we wouldn't have seen season 10.. thus this episode.. Now, would the bad outweight the good? Who knows.. I just know if I had known I'd miss the Daniel scene here, I'd be extremely sad.

Scyld
July 28th, 2006, 10:57 PM
I believe she was talking about how weir brought her team, she was in command it was her expedition. I don't believe she was talking about the first person to physically step through the gate.

Actually, if we're going by 'Rising,' didn't Weir and Sumner go through simultaneously?

Konman72
July 28th, 2006, 11:01 PM
Wow, reading this thread, and also other boards, I really am the cheese that stood alone.
Own all 8 seasons and have watched them all since season 6 (didn't have showtime, but I watched them in chronological order thanks to scifi reruns before the season started), and this episode goes on my top 10 list of all time. Truly amazing. Not every episode has to be a team centric one, and we had a nice one of those last week.

Capt. Voronokova
July 28th, 2006, 11:01 PM
Loved this episode! Fantastic writing, great pacing. Wonderful character and continuity nods (Matter of Time, ascended Daniel). Great integration of both casts.

Laughed out loud at several points, and found the space battle quite suspenseful. Best episode of the season, and above a lot of Season 9 as well, and I'm not a big fan of SGA (enjoy it okay, but not upset if I miss it either).

Starxgate, SG-1 has worn black BDUs several times. That's why it wasn't noticed when the alternate team came through the Stargate in Ripple Effect that anything was unusual. It was the regular team.

nyxlily
July 28th, 2006, 11:01 PM
I haven't watched 'Rising' in a LONG time.. but I think I do recall the scene where Sumner wanted to go first but Weir stopped him because she wants to be the first to step through.. and they went through together.

verbalkint
July 28th, 2006, 11:06 PM
This episode rocked. This immediately went into my top 10 and maybe even top 3 episodes ever. I was like a kid watching a sherlock holmes mystery getting giddy that I was picking up the same clues Daniel was at the same time he was. I noticed how she said "the first human to step foot in Atlantis..." and wondered if Daniel would pick up on it and he did, awesome.

Cam was just mean and was totally out of line with McKay. For those questioning why Vala was there, where else would she be? Per General Landry's orders Daniel is responsible for her and her actions and I thought she provided alot to their scenes by urging Daniel on to simply ask a direct question. This episode couldn't have taken place if not for that.

The end when Daniel remarked that they are on their own a small part of me wanted Daniel to go back home and hook up to the long-distance communication device and tell the Ori that the ancients are sitting on their tale in the Pegasys galaxy. I think the ancients would have already met their end if SG-1 hadn't defeated Anubis at the end of season 8. Anubis was creating an army soldiers who's purpose was to ascend to the realm of the ancients and destroy them which leads me to think Anubis knows just how many "ancients" there are and calculated just how many warriors it would take to overwhelm them. Something tells me in the end it will be sg-1 who will end up having to save the ancients from themselves.

Best episode in at least 2 years. 10 out of 10.

majorsal
July 28th, 2006, 11:07 PM
Carter had more of a leadership role last week than this. She was being her scientist self and Mitchell was clearly in charge. So... are they gonna switch off now on an episode by episode basis? Or was it just me?



that's prob part of why i was so irritated with mitchell *again*. i'll never get past (obviously, seeing as i'm still whining) the dude having command instead of sam. :( :mad:






sally :sam:

valaCB
July 28th, 2006, 11:07 PM
http://forum.gateworld.net/showpost.php?p=5575100&postcount=172
Thanks. I haven't seen the epi yet
LOL when Vala checked the high behind the banister.

Ironic
July 28th, 2006, 11:08 PM
What irked me in this episode was the plothole they had from Rising. Weir was NOT the first human since the abandoment of Atlantis to set foot back in the city, it was Colonel Sumner!!!!!!!
Not sure if this is answered already or not (cause I haven't finished reading the thread), but yes Elizabeth was the first person. Ten thousand years ago, in "Before I Sleep."

esoap524
July 28th, 2006, 11:08 PM
I'm a long time gater and eve though this ep was not exploritory, it was great.

I guess if you're a long-time gater, you'd better hate it. I'm sure some longtimers liked it, I'm sure some didn't and I'm sure some short-timers didn't like it. I don't see why there's an assumption that long time fans of the show couldn't possibly enjoy it now.

At any rate, I'm not a long time gater so I can only speak from what I saw tonight, and I did enjoy the episode. I thought the various crossings worked well and I always like the way McKay brings out the not so sweet side of Carter. Now, there's a 'ship I could get into.

That whole "Was I naked?" with a look of semi-disgust and his "partially", Vala's "colonel carter said you'd know" and Carter's "ooh, we weren't going to tell him". I love that side of Carter, I guess because it makes her a little less perfect. It's interesting to see him get under her skin like that.

And I really did like the Daniel/Vala moment at the end. I kind of wanted her to hug him but I know that he would not have been receptive (he just looked like he needed a hug from somebody, and she was right there).

I don't know wormhole science from rocket science so there's no way I'd address the teckkie aspect, other than to say "yeah, what McKay and Carter said". Although the team wasn't in the same physical place, they are working towards the same goal. I don't see anything wrong with expanding an episode to encompass various ways to achieve that goal. I know I've seen them do it pre-season 9. Is there a rule that says everyone has to be in the same physical location all the time for them to function as a team?

At any rate, it was entertaining enough for a Friday night.

verbalkint
July 28th, 2006, 11:09 PM
Also in reference to the direction of the connection between Pegasys and Milky Way galaxies Rodney McKay mentions that instead of the trip home would take 3 weeks but with the intergalactic bridge setup it would only take 30 minutes using a puddle jumper.

Hatusu
July 28th, 2006, 11:10 PM
What irked me in this episode was the plothole they had from Rising. Weir was NOT the first human since the abandoment of Atlantis to set foot back in the city, it was Colonel Sumner!!!!!!!
Good catch!

valaCB
July 28th, 2006, 11:12 PM
I disagree Morgan would have got that knowledge to Daniel if Vala was there or not. I am not saying I didn't like Vala being there I just don't understand why she was there.
because she is awesome and part of the team... I'm so glad she is there.
:vala: :vala: :vala: :vala: :vala: :vala: :vala: :vala:


Because Landry told Daniel if he wanted Vala to stay, Daniel will have to keep her in line and he can't do that while he is in Pegasus, can he?


For those questioning why Vala was there, where else would she be? Per General Landry's orders Daniel is responsible for her and her actions and I thought she provided alot to their scenes by urging Daniel on to simply ask a direct question. This episode couldn't have taken place if not for that.

Great answer :)

Konman72
July 28th, 2006, 11:14 PM
that's prob part of why i was so irritated with mitchell *again*. i'll never get past (obviously, seeing as i'm still whining) the dude having command instead of sam. :( :mad:






sally :sam:
I didn't think so myself. Sam called Col. Mitchell "Cam", something she would not say to a clearly superior officer (even if he is less qualified etc.). They are equals who take charge depending on the situation. Cam was in charge of the military part of the operation, while Sam was in charge of the science part, exactly how it should be.

Also, the only reason Cam would be in charge is because Sam was gone and he was given the lead, which was never revoked. But let's not get into that debate here ;)

majorsal
July 28th, 2006, 11:18 PM
I guess if you're a long-time gater, you'd better hate it. I'm sure some longtimers liked it, I'm sure some didn't and I'm sure some short-timers didn't like it. I don't see why there's an assumption that long time fans of the show couldn't possibly enjoy it now.




boy, did i bring up the hackles of some ppl. :p

what i originally meant by long-time gaters are the ppl that have been watching stargate *before* their favorite farscape actors joined and they decided to give stargate sg1 a chance.






sally :sam:

NotAscended
July 28th, 2006, 11:20 PM
The end when Daniel remarked that they are on their own a small part of me wanted Daniel to go back home and hook up to the long-distance communication device and tell the Ori that the ancients are sitting on their tale in the Pegasys galaxy.


Unfortunately, it went "kawoosh" just like the Ori ship!



I think the ancients would have already met their end if SG-1 hadn't defeated Anubis at the end of season 8. Anubis was creating an army soldiers who's purpose was to ascend to the realm of the ancients and destroy them which leads me to think Anubis knows just how many "ancients" there are and calculated just how many warriors it would take to overwhelm them. Something tells me in the end it will be sg-1 who will end up having to save the ancients from themselves.

I agree. I think that while the Ancients have been sheltering us from the Ori for so long, we have been sheltering them from other evils and that they may have even helped our civilizations along (as noted by Morgan Le Fay) for that express purpose. Their non-interference policy necessitates that someone keep things from getting out of hand in this plane of existence and threatening theirs. I think we're going to find out that Ascended beings depend on the people of the lower planes for a certain level of protection. That view would also make Adria's earlier comments about the Alterrans needing us at least partly true. (And yes, I still think the Alterrans are good, and the Ori are bad, bad, bad.)

Icemancmd
July 28th, 2006, 11:22 PM
Wow!! An AMAZING ep!!!!!!!

Myn McGeek, Third Sentinel
July 28th, 2006, 11:22 PM
Well I don't know what you think the difference is but in my dictionary "mention" and "bring up" are the exact same thing.
No no no, you misunderstood me. I said "I didn't mean he should..." as opposed to "I didn't mean he should..."

"I didn't mean he should have mentioned her, I just expected him to bring her up." has a different meaning than "I didn't mean he should have mentioned her, I just expected him to bring her up."

I didn't mean he should have. I just expected him to.

Got it? :D

esoap524
July 28th, 2006, 11:23 PM
I didn't think so myself. Sam called Col. Mitchell "Cam", something she would not say to a clearly superior officer (even if he is less qualified etc.). They are equals who take charge depending on the situation. Cam was in charge of the military part of the operation, while Sam was in charge of the science part, exactly how it should be.

Also, the only reason Cam would be in charge is because Sam was gone and he was given the lead, which was never revoked. But let's not get into that debate here ;)

Some things you just can't get over. There's another sci fi show, which will remain nameless, but which starred Ben Browder; some characters acted in certain disagreeable ways there. There are still fans who can't get over it and the show has been canceled for going on 4 years (geez, that long).

I suspect that's the same here and this particular topic will be debated years into the future.

Ah, well, much like everything else in life, you can't always get what you want.

SySTeMLoRDLoL
July 28th, 2006, 11:23 PM
My only problem with this episode was that Mitchell was the one to suggest "slingshotting" around the black hole...if anyone should suggest technobabble it should be either Carter or McKay. Other than that it was an okay episode.

NotAscended
July 28th, 2006, 11:27 PM
My only problem with this episode was that Mitchell was the one to suggest "slingshotting" around the black hole...if anyone should suggest technobabble it should be either Carter or McKay. Other than that it was an okay episode.

Well, he's definitely not the resident technogeek, but apparently he has practically memorized every mission report of every Stargate team. So, if someone once tried it or even suggested it, he probably remembers reading it somewhere.

esoap524
July 28th, 2006, 11:28 PM
boy, did i bring up the hackles of some ppl. :p

what i originally meant by long-time gaters are the ppl that have been watching stargate *before* their favorite farscape actors joined and they decided to give stargate sg1 a chance.

sally :sam:

majorsal, I knew what you meant--as you say, the people who didn't just jump on the SG1 bandwagon (i.e. me) because of Black/Browder but those who've been with the show since day 1, or at least, pre B/B.

My point is, yes, I'm sure there are plenty of long time fans who didn't like it. I'm equally sure there are plenty who did. And I understand your concerns about the command thing.

I guess I'm just being ornery in saying, not all long time fans think the show sucks now because of the changes. And I've tried to lure in my Farscape friends who ARE B/B fans and they still can't cotton to SG1, exactly the way they couldn't prior to B/B.

Something for everyone I guess--or, not for everyone, in this case ;)

Konman72
July 28th, 2006, 11:33 PM
My only problem with this episode was that Mitchell was the one to suggest "slingshotting" around the black hole...if anyone should suggest technobabble it should be either Carter or McKay. Other than that it was an okay episode.
That bugged me a little for a second. Then I just figured they did it so Sam wasn't the only one talking. She had just suggested something and to have her suggest another right behind that one would have been a little odd in my opinion. Either way, a small grievance.

nyxlily
July 28th, 2006, 11:33 PM
I guess Mitchell watched one too many Star Trek episode to make that comment :D

Rewatching the episode now.. and I just thought of something. Weir also looked for those same planets per Daniel's request with no luck.. couldn't Morgan have just revealed it to her and deliver the answers via Weir? Or did she have a special interest in Daniel himself? Was he being watched? Was that how she knew when to reveal herself? I mean.. she MUST know he was there in order to replace the holographic interface at that precise moment.. Just a passing thought.

esoap524
July 28th, 2006, 11:38 PM
That bugged me a little for a second. Then I just figured they did it so Sam wasn't the only one talking. She had just suggested something and to have her suggest another right behind that one would have been a little odd in my opinion. Either way, a small grievance.

Hey...maybe it was a "Farscape" shout-out. That was the move BB's character was trying to make when he got sucked down the wormhole.

Or...maybe not... ;)

One thing I've noticed about SG1 is how one character finishes another's sentence as a way of getting exposition across. Very interesting--I figured it was just a way to make the exposition a little less...um...expository ;) Any other theories?

memnarch
July 28th, 2006, 11:38 PM
Great episode! One of the better ones I've seen in a long time (not that all of them aren't awesome in their own way)! The Atlantis crew integrated nicely and didn't tread on SG-1's performances. Sam and Rodney interacting was, as always, hilarious. Daniel's finally going to Atlantis wasn't skimped over and felt really satisfying. Vala's several non-Earth moments were funny and they were good to see, seeing as many shows can have aliens making semi-Earth like references that bug the heck out of me. Though Teal'c was only there sparingly, what little he had was nice. I still don't think the writers have a firm grasp on Cameron yet, seeing as he adopted a somewhat harsh tone with McKay. Finally, Morrigan Le Fay provided a nice insight into the attitude of the Ancients, although something tells me that if/when it comes to it, they'll go up against the Ori. Especially given that they sent Orlin to warn Earth, or at least allowed him to. Oh, and the Ori ship getting destroyed was one of the most incredible shots I've seen on television. Seriously!

Overall: 3.5/4 if not 4/4

Wick
July 28th, 2006, 11:38 PM
That was the best Sg1 episode like ever i was doubful that a crossover was going to work
o but it did

captain jake
July 28th, 2006, 11:40 PM
No no no, you misunderstood me. I said "I didn't mean he should..." as opposed to "I didn't mean he should..."

"I didn't mean he should have mentioned her, I just expected him to bring her up." has a different meaning than "I didn't mean he should have mentioned her, I just expected him to bring her up."

I didn't mean he should have. I just expected him to.

Got it? :D

You've lost me if you expected him to bring it up wouldn't you think he should have? I don't know maybe I'm just not understanding what you mean.


My only problem with this episode was that Mitchell was the one to suggest "slingshotting" around the black hole...if anyone should suggest technobabble it should be either Carter or McKay. Other than that it was an okay episode.

I think you are underestimating how smart Mitchell is he did graduate top of his class from the air force academy. I think both Rodney and carter would have said it if he hadn't it's just he beat them to it.

I didn't see any problem with it at all, I mean all the anti Mitchell fans can say is how big of a moron tptb are making him out to be. Then when he does something smart they all freak out and say it wasn't his place to say that.

JanusAncient
July 28th, 2006, 11:41 PM
Something I forgot to mention, the Ori ship is one of the most beautifully designed ships in all of Stargate, probably the most, other than the Wraith Hive ship.

cpgfilth
July 28th, 2006, 11:41 PM
Among the best episodes I have seen...ever.

Some gaps here and there like the holograph changing from what it looked like in "rising" to the way it looked here, and them not noticing. But whateva, pretty swoot episode.

Dark Falcon
July 28th, 2006, 11:44 PM
Yay! Daniel Jackson finally got to visit Atlantis!!

The scenes between Carter and McKay were hysterical,
especially the part where Carter asked McKay, "was I naked?"
McKay answered, "Partially." :lol:

Plus, the lemon scene between McKay and Mitchell was great.:D

The one part that is absolutely revolting is the fact
that the Ancients are not going to be helping us
against the Ori. They should be. Why
aren't they helping us? The Ori ARE related to
the Ancients, after all. That makes me so
ticked off. :mad:

Have any of you had nightmares about the Ori since
"Camelot"? Well, here's the pic that will bring the nightmares
to an end!!:D I actually stood up and yelled out loud,
"YEAH!!!" when this moment took place. The Ori
deserved it. Hey, the_fifth_man, you were right:
we would get a chance to see an Ori ship get blown up. ;)

DOWN WITH THE ORI
DOWN WITH THE ORI
DOWN WITH THE ORI

http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m308/Jets_06/Boom2.jpg

Dani347
July 28th, 2006, 11:46 PM
Own all 8 seasons and have watched them all since season 6 (didn't have showtime, but I watched them in chronological order thanks to scifi reruns before the season started), and this episode goes on my top 10 list of all time. Truly amazing. Not every episode has to be a team centric one, and we had a nice one of those last week.

Uh, thanks for that little bit of info. I'm not sure why I was fortunate enough to recieve it, but thanks for sharing.

I own every season except 6, watched them all, and this episode for me does not go on my top 10 list of all time.

Just thought I'd put reciprocate my feelings towards the placement of the episode in the annals of Stargate history, since you were so kind to give me yours. Share and share alike and all that jolly good stuff.

majorsal
July 28th, 2006, 11:47 PM
majorsal, I knew what you meant--as you say, the people who didn't just jump on the SG1 bandwagon (i.e. me) because of Black/Browder but those who've been with the show since day 1, or at least, pre B/B.

My point is, yes, I'm sure there are plenty of long time fans who didn't like it. I'm equally sure there are plenty who did. And I understand your concerns about the command thing.

I guess I'm just being ornery in saying, not all long time fans think the show sucks now because of the changes. And I've tried to lure in my Farscape friends who ARE B/B fans and they still can't cotton to SG1, exactly the way they couldn't prior to B/B.

Something for everyone I guess--or, not for everyone, in this case ;)


;)


*hugs*






sally :)

Konman72
July 28th, 2006, 11:50 PM
Uh, thanks for that little bit of info. I'm not sure why I was fortunate enough to recieve it, but thanks for sharing.

I own every season except 6, watched them all, and this episode for me does not go on my top 10 list of all time.

Just thought I'd put reciprocate my feelings towards the placement of the episode in the annals of Stargate history, since you were so kind to give me yours. Share and share alike and all that jolly good stuff.
LOL, sorry, it wasn't directed at you. I saw a quote about "long time gaters" and mistakenly attributed it to you, sorry about that.


You've lost me if you expected him to bring it up wouldn't you think he should have? I don't know maybe I'm just not understanding what you mean.
He/she is saying that he/she thought Daniel would say it, that doesn't necessarily mean he SHOULD say it though. I expected Stargate Season 9 to be out on DVD by now, but I wouldn't say that it should have been out by now, I just thought it would be. Get it?


Something I forgot to mention, the Ori ship is one of the most beautifully designed ships in all of Stargate, probably the most, other than the Wraith Hive ship.
Agreed, very nice looking ships. Even better when we see them go KABOOM! ;)

PG15
July 28th, 2006, 11:51 PM
There could've been 2 types of holograms. Melia was the introduction hologram, while Morgan was the Encyclopedia hologram.

Dani347
July 28th, 2006, 11:52 PM
Okay, read through the whole thing, and don't think I saw this mentioned. When Morgan le Fay finally decided to cross the line, wouldn't it have been easier to just name the planet, instead of saying "Merlin's weapon is not on...."? They had already asked which planet to go to, so they would have assumed that she was saying the name of the planet that she wanted them to go to. And, even a partial one word answer (if they grabbed her before she finished) is better than a 5 word answer that says nothing.

TameFarrar
July 28th, 2006, 11:53 PM
The best part of this episode was the look on Daniel's face as they came into sight of Atlantis. I actually teared up watching him. It really felt like he had come into his own in this episode. I loved the cross-over and the all of the multi-team interaction, but this was Daniel's episode all the way round.

That's not to take anything away from everyone else in the show. Watching SG-1 join up with their SGA conterparts was quite a rush. I must admit the fangirl in me giggled just a bit at seeing Cam and Shep in the same space and as always, Rodney and Sam were a hoot. When Rodney thanked her for what we knew happened in "Grace Under Pressure" and Sam's face screwed up in a "eeeww" expression when he said he was in the dark I laughed out loud till it hurt. They work so well together and their timing with each other is so great - we've got to have more! Shep and the lemon - priceless. Cam & Rodney on the ship with the lemon - hilarious.



Good episode. Enjoyed it.

Sela you summed up my thoughts AND actions as well :D

my only exception...I so enjoy Vala...so I was happy to see her along :)

Gate gal
July 28th, 2006, 11:56 PM
Wow! This episode blew me away! When I read Brad's name in the opening credits, I knew we were in for a treat. Wow, again! Daniel's first trip to Atlantis was everything I thought it would be! Glad they had the Sam/McKay banter about Grace Under Pressure. I love it when Sam shuts him down! Time flew while this episode was on, and that hasn't happened for me in a while. I have enjoyed every ep this season, and each one has been better than the one before! Man, I can't wait for next week!

captain jake
July 28th, 2006, 11:56 PM
Okay, read through the whole thing, and don't think I saw this mentioned. When Morgan le Fay finally decided to cross the line, wouldn't it have been easier to just name the planet, instead of saying "Merlin's weapon is not on...."? They had already asked which planet to go to, so they would have assumed that she was saying the name of the planet that she wanted them to go to. And, even a partial one word answer (if they grabbed her before she finished) is better than a 5 word answer that says nothing.

She might not have been telling them what planet the weapon was on. All she said was "the weapon is" she could have been saying the weapon is invisible it could have been more complicated than just naming the planet it's on.

Gate gal
July 28th, 2006, 11:58 PM
Okay, read through the whole thing, and don't think I saw this mentioned. When Morgan le Fay finally decided to cross the line, wouldn't it have been easier to just name the planet, instead of saying "Merlin's weapon is not on...."? They had already asked which planet to go to, so they would have assumed that she was saying the name of the planet that she wanted them to go to. And, even a partial one word answer (if they grabbed her before she finished) is better than a 5 word answer that says nothing.
Easier, yes, but not near as much fun!

Konman72
July 29th, 2006, 12:00 AM
Okay, read through the whole thing, and don't think I saw this mentioned. When Morgan le Fay finally decided to cross the line, wouldn't it have been easier to just name the planet, instead of saying "Merlin's weapon is not on...."? They had already asked which planet to go to, so they would have assumed that she was saying the name of the planet that she wanted them to go to. And, even a partial one word answer (if they grabbed her before she finished) is better than a 5 word answer that says nothing.
http://forum.gateworld.net/showthread.php?t=31852

I don't think she was necessarily saying what planet it was not on, rather it is more complicated. Something like, "the weapon is not functional" or, "the weapon is not what you think it is." Also, breaking from fiction, if they had written it so she just said the name of the planet it was on then the Ancients just would have grabbed her earlier. Remember, this is written, so everything happens for a reason.

Adrius
July 29th, 2006, 12:05 AM
This is my favorite episode of all time, bar none.

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! <- my mood through the whole thing.

Sela
July 29th, 2006, 12:06 AM
Sela you summed up my thoughts AND actions as well :D

my only exception...I so enjoy Vala...so I was happy to see her along :)
I always knew you were a person of descernment and intelligence in spite of what the others said. :cameron:

captain jake
July 29th, 2006, 12:12 AM
Uh, thanks for that little bit of info. I'm not sure why I was fortunate enough to recieve it, but thanks for sharing.

I own every season except 6, watched them all, and this episode for me does not go on my top 10 list of all time.

Just thought I'd put reciprocate my feelings towards the placement of the episode in the annals of Stargate history, since you were so kind to give me yours. Share and share alike and all that jolly good stuff.

Perhaps because this is a thread that we are supposed to post what we thought about the episode........................

I own all 8 seasons and the first season of Atlantis and I am in agreement with Konman except for the fact that it is in my top 5 apposed to my top ten.

Thanks for posting such a pleasant bundle of opinions. I loved the part about the "ANNALS of Stargate history".

Agent_Dark
July 29th, 2006, 12:13 AM
The Daniel that I used to like has gone now. Anyone notice that he was all about 'ends justify the means' to Morgan? As in, it's justified to break your own rules of non-interference so you can defeat the Ori. That's something I remember Daniel passionately arguing against in previous episodes (The Other Side for example). Add to that to his arubt manner with Vala - literrally pushing and manhandling her around - I'm not really liking 'new and improved' Daniel at all.

Other than that, the episode was great. Rodney/Sam/Cam was great, Teal'c got to save the day :D and finally the actually got something done right. Best episode out of the last 23.

Konman72
July 29th, 2006, 12:14 AM
I own all 8 seasons and the first season of Atlantis and I am in agreement with Konman except for the fact that it is in my top 5 apposed to my top ten.
It might go that high, but I will save that honor until I see it a few times and in order with a few episodes.

Dani347
July 29th, 2006, 12:17 AM
http://forum.gateworld.net/showthread.php?t=31852

I don't think she was necessarily saying what planet it was not on, rather it is more complicated. Something like, "the weapon is not functional" or, "the weapon is not what you think it is." Also, breaking from fiction, if they had written it so she just said the name of the planet it was on then the Ancients just would have grabbed her earlier. Remember, this is written, so everything happens for a reason.


Well, I get writing wise, they couldn't just let her tell them so easily. But, I meant suspending disbelief, I would have figured Morgan would have thought herself to cut to the chase. And, it did seem like she was guiding them to actually go to one of those planets with the whole "you have your answer" and giving him gate addresses (seems kind of pointless if there was no reason to go to one of them) in the first place.

Col. Shadow Quinn
July 29th, 2006, 12:17 AM
It is the best episode ever. Especially how they destroyed a hive ship and a toilet. I would give this episode a 10512 out of 5. How the ym themselves able to beam a nuke onboard is also genius. The episode was absolutely amazing in every way.

Dani347
July 29th, 2006, 12:20 AM
The Daniel that I used to like has gone now. Anyone notice that he was all about 'ends justify the means' to Morgan? As in, it's justified to break your own rules of non-interference so you can defeat the Ori. That's something I remember Daniel passionately arguing against in previous episodes (The Other Side for example). Add to that to his arubt manner with Vala - literrally pushing and manhandling her around - I'm not really liking 'new and improved' Daniel at all.

Other than that, the episode was great. Rodney/Sam/Cam was great, Teal'c got to save the day :D and finally the actually got something done right. Best episode out of the last 23.


Funny, I remember Daniel being all about the interfering when he was ascended.

captain jake
July 29th, 2006, 12:22 AM
Well, I get writing wise, they couldn't just let her tell them so easily. But, I meant suspending disbelief, I would have figured Morgan would have thought herself to cut to the chase. And, it did seem like she was guiding them to actually go to one of those planets with the whole "you have your answer" and giving him gate addresses (seems kind of pointless if there was no reason to go to one of them) in the first place.

I believe the device is on one of the two planets it's just that it is probably hidden which is why she needed to use more than just one word. Daniel realized that it wouldn't be as simple as going to both of the planets and finding it. They have gone through a dozen clues and found nothing but dead ends. He was sick of it and wanted a straight answer when she tried to give it to him she was taken away.

Dani347
July 29th, 2006, 12:23 AM
Perhaps because this is a thread that we are supposed to post what we thought about the episode........................

I own all 8 seasons and the first season of Atlantis and I am in agreement with Konman except for the fact that it is in my top 5 apposed to my top ten.

Thanks for posting such a pleasant bundle of opinions. I loved the part about the "ANNALS of Stargate history".


Well, it was cleared up that it was mistakenly addressed to me, but when I read the post, it didn't seem like just a sharing of how someone felt (and there were 7 or 8 pages of people saying how much they loved it, which you noticed I didn't have any objections to) but that I was being informed that this episode was great, and being corrected in my opinion that it wasn't. That impression was what I was objecting to, not just someone sharing that they liked the episode.

Agent_Dark
July 29th, 2006, 12:23 AM
Funny, I remember Daniel being all about the interfering when he was ascended.
Yeah, but that wasn't a rule that he believed in or really lived by. He basically said to this ancient 'its ok to break your own number #1 rule because the ends justify the means'.

Dani347
July 29th, 2006, 12:29 AM
Yeah, but I don't think Daniel has ever been a stringent "stick to your rules above all else, even if it ultimately hurts others" kind of guy. He's someone who feels if action is necessary to do good, to save people (I'm including all beings under the umbrella of people) it's up to others to take a stand. It reminds me of Madeleine's take on how Daniel views morality :
Depends on whether you see morality as a make-it-up-as-you-go thing like Daniel, who responds to situations I think this is that case. I see it the same as him trying to get them to take a stand in Threads.

captain jake
July 29th, 2006, 12:32 AM
Well, it was cleared up that it was mistakenly addressed to me, but when I read the post, it didn't seem like just a sharing of how someone felt (and there were 7 or 8 pages of people saying how much they loved it, which you noticed I didn't have any objections to) but that I was being informed that this episode was great, and being corrected in my opinion that it wasn't. That impression was what I was objecting to, not just someone sharing that they liked the episode.

O, excuse me perhaps I jumped to a conclusion it's the fact that you didn't react to all the other posts that confused me. (I understand now)


Yeah, but that wasn't a rule that he believed in or really lived by. He basically said to this ancient 'its ok to break your own number #1 rule because the ends justify the means'.

Daniel realized that it was escalating to a point that they either had to $$$$ or get off the pot if you will. Obviously he feels strongly about the ancients standing by doing nothing. (even though I believe they aid us much more than we realize) I don't think Daniel is as worried about them braking there #1 rule as he is to life in our corner of the galaxy being destroyed.

DEM
July 29th, 2006, 12:41 AM
Best episode out of the last 23.I'll 2nd that.

(until such time as I remember something I forgot);)

the dancer of spaz
July 29th, 2006, 12:48 AM
I wonder if TPTB realize how much utter gold they have, when they utilize all of their actors/characters.

And who knew they had to actually add three more actors/characters from another series to achieve this kind of balance. :p I hope the ratings reflect how well-received this episode was.

Adrius
July 29th, 2006, 12:48 AM
Does anyone else REALLY like the black outfits more than the green ones? They have a special/Black ops feel. Me like.Hell ya. I like them a LOT more.

nyxlily
July 29th, 2006, 12:52 AM
This post is in response to Agent_Dark's post:

Daniel is asking for their help in stopping a race from slaughtering innocent beings in his galaxy by the billions. So... break a self imposed rule.. or save billions of lives.. the cause of which is from OTHER ascended beings. Daniel said it himself.. IF they are defeated, the Ori would move on to the Ancients next. He said they are not only a threat to "us 'lowers'" but to their OWN (Ascended Ancients) existance. Are they only going to step in when all those lives are destroyed? Couldn't they curb this threat before it starts?

I've always believed, and still do, that Daniel will do whatever it takes to get the job done. The only limit being his moral beliefs and his conscience. I don't see how asking the Ancients to help save people represents a different Daniel. So how is this 'end justifies means' bad when the means are asking for help? Breaking one rule? Isn't that blowing things a bit out of porpotions when comparing what could happen if they DON'T interfere?

Quinn Mallory
July 29th, 2006, 12:58 AM
Not going to say anything particularly insightful but this was an awesome episode. Great crossover with plenty of good interactions. If I'm going to nitpick, I would say that there probably could've been more Weir-Jackson action but TPTB probably want to develop Vala more.

It's also about time that the Ori loses something...other than the occasional Prior or two.

Anyhow, this was fun with just the right touch of interaction and technobabble to make my day.

SySTeMLoRDLoL
July 29th, 2006, 12:59 AM
That bugged me a little for a second. Then I just figured they did it so Sam wasn't the only one talking. She had just suggested something and to have her suggest another right behind that one would have been a little odd in my opinion. Either way, a small grievance.

yeah but imo they could have had McKay say it instead. It just seems like Cam is edging into every other character's role a bit too much. He doesn't seem to have his own special place in the team yet.

On the plus side, I really like the way Vala's character is evolving. She could really become a permanent char, and she adds a lot of the humor that has been missing since the loss of O'Neill. I love the Vala/Daniel scenes.

Adrius
July 29th, 2006, 01:01 AM
i don't know where else to ask this (what thread?), but how is sheppard in comparison to mitchell? (please remember i don't watch atlantis)I'm sure this has been answered, but I'll offer my opinion.

He's sort of a cross between Jack and Cam. He's serious, down to earth and real good in a pinch, but he's got the attitude of a brazen rogue and the wit to match. He also likes to talk to himself :p

verbalkint
July 29th, 2006, 01:01 AM
Well, he's definitely not the resident technogeek, but apparently he has practically memorized every mission report of every Stargate team. So, if someone once tried it or even suggested it, he probably remembers reading it somewhere.
Its funny watching Mitchell recite old mission reports of sg-1 teams. Its like he is regurgitating the information really quickly without pause so as not to forget what he is saying.

Agent_Dark
July 29th, 2006, 01:13 AM
This post is in response to Agent_Dark's post:

Daniel is asking for their help in stopping a race from slaughtering innocent beings in his galaxy by the billions. So... break a self imposed rule.. or save billions of lives.. the cause of which is from OTHER ascended beings. Daniel said it himself.. IF they are defeated, the Ori would move on to the Ancients next. He said they are not only a threat to "us 'lowers'" but to their OWN (Ascended Ancients) existance. Are they only going to step in when all those lives are destroyed? Couldn't they curb this threat before it starts?

I've always believed, and still do, that Daniel will do whatever it takes to get the job done. The only limit being his moral beliefs and his conscience. I don't see how asking the Ancients to help save people represents a different Daniel. So how is this 'end justifies means' bad when the means are asking for help? Breaking one rule? Isn't that blowing things a bit out of porpotions when comparing what could happen if they DON'T interfere?
The Ascended were quite willing to let Anubis destroy every living thing in the galaxy. They have that number rule for a very good reason because while it may seem as if they're doing a good thing, the unintended consequences come back and bite them in the arse. I thought that Daniel would have been able to see/respect that instead of complaining that he's sick and tired of their rules.

verbalkint
July 29th, 2006, 01:19 AM
The Ascended were quite willing to let Anubis destroy every living thing in the galaxy. They have that number rule for a very good reason because while it may seem as if they're doing a good thing, the unintended consequences come back and bite them in the arse. I thought that Daniel would have been able to see/respect that instead of complaining that he's sick and tired of their rules.
Daniel is sick and tired of all the cryptic clues and scavenger hunts. The ancients were willing to let Anubis wipe out all life in the galaxy in order to further punish Oma for helping Anubis ascend in the first place. This shows spite. IIRC, the person the hologram shows to be Merlin is actually the last high counciler of Atlantis and he eventually realized that the Ori were becoming a threat so he de-ascended in order to do something about it. Though the ancients have ascended they still hold on to coroporeal emotions and thought patterns and its clearly evident in their actions.

The ancients sat back and watched the human inhabitants of the pegasys galaxy to be culled and drained by the wraith what makes anyone think the ancients would lift a single finger to help someone else.

the dancer of spaz
July 29th, 2006, 01:22 AM
Daniel Jackson has definitely been going through some changes over the past year. :( I dunno if he's wrong to ask the Ancients to go back on their rules at this point, but his insistence of "the ends justifying the means" is just one example of how Dr. Jackson is much, much different.

I'm not so sure I like it, but we'll see.

Adrius
July 29th, 2006, 01:25 AM
Among the best episodes I have seen...ever.

Some gaps here and there like the holograph changing from what it looked like in "rising" to the way it looked here, and them not noticing. But whateva, pretty swoot episode.The one in Rising seemed like more of a message than a teaching program? But ya, it did cross my mind.

White Knight
July 29th, 2006, 01:42 AM
I was planning to write a fan review of this episode but I don't have enough things to say so I'm just putting them up here (Joss bless the internet).

- This episode is a fanwank. That's not necessarily a bad thing (just look at the Doctor Who S2 finale) but it seemed pretty obvious from the get-go that half the purpose of this episode was simply to get our two favourite teams together to do stuff. And it was most definately entertaining to watch, but the bar was set too high too early; the conference room scene at the beginning was so hilarious that nothing else in the ep managed to top it in terms of comedy.
- For the first act-and-a-half of the episode SG-1's plan to dial the Ori Supergate was a little unclear. I got their intentions straight away but their exact plan as to how they intended to get the wormhole to jump was not sufficiently explained (for me at least), so I was confused as to what several characters - especially Teal'c - were doing.
- On that note, I was very disappointed that Teal'c was forced to remain behind. Not only would it have been interesting to see Teal'c in Atlantis but we hardly got to see any of Chris Judge during the episode. Mind you, what we did see of him was awesome.
- Loved the lemon gag. Hi-larious.
- The end of the episode was fantastic, had me on the edge of my seat as it slowly dawned on me what they were going to do. Flying around a black hole: good. Blowing up a Wraith ship while simultaneously making the wormhole jump to the MW Supergate: excellent. Teal'c tricking the Ori ship into being destroyed by its own Supergate: f***ing awesome!
- The weapon search storyline dragged on too much. Don't get me wrong, I liked the Morgan stuff and Daniel certainly does give good speech, but our intrepid archeologist got what he needed less than ten minutes into the episode (at least, that's what it felt like) and then spent almost the entire rest of the ep not doing much at all.
- "Merlin's weapon is not--". This'll be a defining mystery that'll bother both out heroes and the audience for a long time, at least until the rest of the season, and it already has my brain working and ticking over (It's not what? A weapon at all? The Bloodstone? The droids your looking for?) and kudos to TPTB for making that happen.
- McKay. You could put McKay into any situation in any TV show in existence and he'd make it even better. In this episode he fell back into doing what he's done in every SG-1 episode he's ever been in, serving as foil for Carter, but he does it so well and Hewlett makes his such a fnatastic character to watch, both lovable and annoying. I really felt that even though McKay's fallen back into an old role he's brought to it all the experience and knowledge and - dare I say it? - wisdom that he's gained in the last two-and-a-bit years.
- We needed to see more - hell, some! - fanboy Daniel. He's finally getting to go to Atantis, the city of the Ancients that he helped discover years ago and he didn't seemed any more enthused about it than he is about anything. Several characters said during the episode "Gee, Daniel's excited" but it never showed.

Well, those are my thoughts. I'd give the episode a 7 out of 10: a great on my scale.

Dani347
July 29th, 2006, 01:55 AM
I think if Daniel felt it was morally wrong for the Ancients to interfere in the lives of humans, but thought it was okay to do something wrong this time, that would be ends justifying the means. But, I don't think he's ever felt that their policy is right in any way. He's never agreed with their means. And, I don't mean in a "well, this may be your way, but it's not mine." I think he flat out has always believed it was wrong for them not to do what they could to help others. So, I would say if that's wrong of him, it's a belief he's always had, not some new development.

Persephone
July 29th, 2006, 02:07 AM
Hello, popping in. Gateworld's being way to slow for me to read the thread thus far but I thought I'd chime in with my thoughts. I adored this episode.

First thing I have to say is, SOMEBODY brought back Daniel!!!!!!!!!! *huge grin* He didn't tote a gun, say anything snarky in a poor-man's attempt at being Jack, nor even talk faster than that guy who used to do Fed-Ex commercials. The look in his eyes when he beheld Atlantis made me all gushy inside, and then when he was trying to win over Morgan Le Fay with the power of words and conviction... yeah, it's nice to have you back, old friend. Let's have more of it!!

I couldn't pay complete attention to the exposition scene just after the credits, because I was distracted by seeing Atlantis folks' names in the guest cast and just grinning like a moron at all the fun potential character combinations in the room. I have to admit, I was really, really hoping the writers would give Sheppard and Vala some kind of focus moment, since they're the two biggest flirts in two galaxies, but she was sitting next to him at the briefing, and he did throw her a charming smile at least once before the camera cut away, so... I'm content. ;-) Vala and McKay interacting was also fun.

Then we leave the briefing room and everybody pairs off by matching roles. McKay and Carter we all know and love with old familiarity. Daniel and Elizabeth, just a smidge of experience, but here the linguist!love reignited my grinning like a moron. And then there was Mitchell and Sheppard. Their scene basically screamed. "Yeah. We're both cool beyond words of the extremely confident heterosexual macho leader flyboy variety."

[JOHN: But my hair's cooler]

The only character interaction I didn't buy was Mitchell vs. McKay. I know McKay's annoying, that Mitchell is not used to him, and that McKay can arguably be said to be on an even tighter string because Sam was around, but... Mitchell was way too viscious. I had the same problem with the way John treated Rodney in Inferno last year.

And the whole Wraith ship and Ori ship thing at the climax? Very cool. The visual of the uber-kawoosh disintegrating the toilet ship were quite awesome. I also got warm fuzzies at Teal'c's "great victory" line. I know that kind of dialogue is old hat for him, but in this case it's kind of like it was for Daniel at the beginning of my gushings. Revisiting an old friend.

Three and a half stars. I'll definitely watch this one over and over and over.

SySTeMLoRDLoL
July 29th, 2006, 02:14 AM
The Ascended were quite willing to let Anubis destroy every living thing in the galaxy. They have that number rule for a very good reason because while it may seem as if they're doing a good thing, the unintended consequences come back and bite them in the arse. I thought that Daniel would have been able to see/respect that instead of complaining that he's sick and tired of their rules.

It's a lot like the whole "Prime Directive" thing in Star Trek. I completely agree with you that maybe Daniel isn't seeing the big picture. The Ancients don't interfere because they have a more universal view of things, not because they view humans as "lower" beings.

Suppose you see a fly trapped in a spider's web. The spider has spent all that time making that web, and it has to eat to survive. The fly flew into the web and will now die unless you decide to save it. Do you save the trapped fly and deprive the spider of its food, or do you leave the fly to die in order to let the spider eat? (In real life, most people would just kill both of them, but let's say for the sake of argument that you want to minimize the loss of life.)

Would the "divine" action be to leave both alone and not intervene? The spider has an adaptation that helps it survive. Is this nature's fragile balance, and is it not our place to interfere? Is the spider somehow "bad" simply because it eats? Is the fly somehow "good" because it is the food source?

IMO the spider is not evil in any way. Evil is a human concept. The spider merely does what it needs to in order to survive. The replicators, and even the Goa'uld were simply using their instincts in order to make a better existence for themselves. Human morality might be considered irrelevant to other forms of life. Morality, as we define it, might just be another adaptation for human survival.

The main question is: If a species is advanced enough to defeat threats to its own existence and able to enhance itself in order to survive, is it not the "superior" species? Does it not "deserve," in some sense, the right to exist? Is this what we have done on our own planet? Or is this reasoning another case of naturalistic fallacy? (i.e: "It's natural, so it is morally right." "It's unnatural, so it is morally unacceptable.")

The question becomes very serious when you have beings that have the ability to transcend time and space freely, with universal knowledge. If they intervened with everything that they viewed as "wrong," they would, in essence, be "playing God." This seems to be exactly what the Ancients do NOT want to do because it could lead to serious abuses of power. (The complete destruction of species, planets, stars, galaxies, maybe even universes that any given Ancient deems "bad.")

The Ori seem to take the opposite stance. In their minds, they are "Gods" molding a universe, and therefore they "deserve" to be worshipped. They reason that, because of their power, they are the "superior species" and they deserve the right to manipulate their existence to make it more suitable for them. But, I think the message that SG1 has been sending for so long is that having power does not make someone good or evil. It is how someone uses that power that defines his or her character. I think that's why we didn't see species like the Nox and Ancients using their power to take control of everything, but we saw species like the Goa'uld and the Ori enslaving worlds and using beings of lesser power to do their bidding.

I think the Ancients view the Ori as spiders. (Except in this case, the spider is very poisonous and close enough to bite. :D)

AutumnDream
July 29th, 2006, 02:22 AM
Here's my score: Brad Wright should write EVERY episode.

That was the best SG-1 since... well, since a very long time.
-I was totally "OMG!" when the Ori ship got fried. That was brilliant. I was a little surprised they couldn't detect through crappy ol' cargo ship cloaks though.
-It seems as though the plane of Ascended Ancients is being run by a dictator of sorts. That's very interesting. Ancient civil war over disparate moral principles please!
- I did miss the old hologram girl, though. Wasn't she the same girl that Weir met in Before I Sleep? It'd be so nice to learn more about the ancient from Atlantis. I'd love to hear about Janus again, in particular, but some more peeks into the lives and experiences of Atlantis' citizens would be so great.
- Zomg. Such a great show. It's even more sad that episodes like Morpheus exist when you see them side-to-side with episodes like Pegasus Project.

captain jake
July 29th, 2006, 02:27 AM
I think if Daniel felt it was morally wrong for the Ancients to interfere in the lives of humans, but thought it was okay to do something wrong this time, that would be ends justifying the means. But, I don't think he's ever felt that their policy is right in any way. He's never agreed with their means. And, I don't mean in a "well, this may be your way, but it's not mine." I think he flat out has always believed it was wrong for them not to do what they could to help others. So, I would say if that's wrong of him, it's a belief he's always had, not some new development.

Me and Dani don't see eye to eye on allot of things but I think she is dead right on this one. In threads Daniel showed a extreme amount of hatred for the other ascended beings and there smugness. Daniel has always thought that the ascended beings (ancients) should help us and now that it has come to this level he is pretty freaking sick of playing these stupid treasure hunting games.

However I do believe in season 1 Daniel would have handled the situation differently. He probably would have tried to reason with Morgan apposed to saying "I WANT MORE!!!". I don't see this as a bad thing I believe Daniel has learned allot from the first season. He is becoming a little harder he isn't that little delicate archaeologist. After dealing with hostile aliens over countless years you would expect him to form leather skin. Under the skin he is still that archaeologist but now he has a new part of him that realizes that evil can not be bargained with.

Armagaiden
July 29th, 2006, 02:45 AM
Agreed, good episode, I thought the killing both ships was a little convenient, and they really telegraphed the destruction of the Ori ship by having it hover over the gate like that, would have been better if they simply got the Ori ship and not the Wraith ship.

That blackhole was awfully weak, since the last blackhole they encountered practically stopped time in the SGC through a wormhole linked to a planet that was merely orbiting a blackhole, yet they flew almost into this one and all that happened was Teal'cs voice got a little deeper.

I still don't trust Morgan La Fey!

You know what, it's about damn time it was actually CONVENIENT for something positive to happen, because lately its been too convenient for things to be going wrong with no help that should be justifiably there (Asgard, hello?). So quite frankly it was OUTSTANDING, PHENOMENAL, AWESOME, that it took out both ships. As a matter of fact, it was more believable for them to take out the wraith ship, not the ORI ship, so no it wouldn't have been better, and just as highly unrealistic as them getting this one. But they did get it, with the gate opening, which is awesome because we all know that causes disintegration upon contact in normal gates.

So phooey on your opinion on my opinion.

Armagaiden
July 29th, 2006, 02:47 AM
Best episode in a long time. 'bout time we had a crossover more than weir or someone else just "talking" to sgc. Daniel FINALLY got to go to atlantis, which was highly overdue considering he's the most qualified to research the biggest repository of ancient history along with carter and technology yet.

Was disappointed there was no Ronan/Te'alc interaction but the Mitchell/Sheppard interaction was cool and the McKay dialogue in the meeting and throughout the episode was over the top perfection, especially in bringing up his hallucination episode. But to top it all off, we didn't lose anybody, we didn't lose any ships, and they actually TOOK OUT AN ORI SHIP!! But not just in any way either, by blowing up a WRAITH SHIP!!! I just about n&tted in my pants watching those last scenes. After the last few depressing episodes of everyone screwing everything up, this was definitely needed.

I'll say it again, best episode in a long long time.

Oh and I was doing more than arm & fist pumps, I was clapping and yelling like a madman when that ori ship got blown outta the void. BOUT ******* TIME.

yowo
July 29th, 2006, 02:49 AM
This was the best episode yet this season. :sam59: I loved it. It felt more like the old show.
I loved that we got to see the old Carter. Amanda was great.:samanime20:
I loved the :sam34: Carter/McKay :mckayanime22: banter, especially the “Was I naked Line” It was all wonderfully hysterical.
I would have liked to see more of Teal’c but Chris did a good job with the few lines that he had.:indeed:
Michael did a good job of letting us feel Daniels frustration.:danielanime07:
I loved the feel of the show. I felt like I had come home to an old friend.:jack_new_anime07:

Dani347
July 29th, 2006, 02:50 AM
But, Daniel is a human being, so how can he ignore the human concept of evil? And, aren't the Ancients and the Ori the same beings? The Ori don't need worshipers to survive. The Ancients in this galaxy have been living fine without it. And, the Goa'uld didn't have to enslave people and force themselves on unwilling hosts, since there have been willing ones, seeing as the Tok'ra take willing hosts. So, it's not a spider needs to eat thing. I'd say it's more along the lines of someone doing something that harms someone else when they don't have to, just for power, for gain. The spider needs to eat the fly. Also, the Goa'uld were not going on instinct. They were making choices on what to do. There's nothing instinctual about posing as gods.

And, I don't think there's a choice only between "no interference" or "taking over and controlling everything." I think it's possible to have a middle ground and decide when it's right to step in. And, this is one of those times. Doing nothing can also lead to complete destruction. And, I don't believe any being in destined to take things overboard. Would some take it too far? Yeah, the Ori have. But, I think it's foolish for each and every Ancient to believe if they ever acted they would be in danger of becoming like them or causing trouble. That just leaves you paralyzed with fear. And, you don't have to be thinking in cosmic, universal ways to understand that any action can have a ripple effect. If someone doesn't see a huge gaping hole and is about to walk into it, do I scream "look out!"? I can reason that this person might be on their way to kill someone, and falling in the hole saved someone's life. In which case, it's better I do nothing. It may not be galaxies, but the principle applies.

I also don't think it's a universally accepted rule among them that non interference is the best method. Obviously, Oma felt differently, Merlin, Morgan le Fay, Orlin. I'm not saying that it means that we have to agree (I just do) just that I don't think it's been presented on the show as the right course of action in any case. Just like the speculation, "what if the Ori are really good" I don't buy, because they've been written as bad (and I don't see the show doing a really cool "hey, you just thought they were bad" thing), and I think the story is supposed to be that it's equally wrong to sit by and do nothing.

But, even if that's totally wrong, and non interference is the best or the most prudent, or the only option, I don't believe that Daniel has ever felt that way, so I don't see him going back on his own code to say he wanted help.

Agent_Dark
July 29th, 2006, 02:57 AM
Daniel is meant to be the one that understands and respects the point of view of the aliens. He's meant to be the 'heart and soul' of SG1. But now, he hardly seems concerned for the other point of view anymore.

Dr,jackson
July 29th, 2006, 02:59 AM
I've seen this ep this morning and I'm still not that happy about s10 , I mean it was funny th ebeginning in the ship when danny is sleeping on the table kinda remind me of chimera whaha well it was funny between micthell and mckay and ofcourse between sam en mckay , but the first three eps of s9 where beter then of 10's eps , but I think that was cos there was a lil whumping danny whumping , but it was nice to watch and daniel getting pissed at the ancients? haha :daniel09:

Armagaiden
July 29th, 2006, 03:23 AM
But, Daniel is a human being, so how can he ignore the human concept of evil? And, aren't the Ancients and the Ori the same beings? The Ori don't need worshipers to survive. The Ancients in this galaxy have been living fine without it. And, the Goa'uld didn't have to enslave people and force themselves on unwilling hosts, since there have been willing ones, seeing as the Tok'ra take willing hosts. So, it's not a spider needs to eat thing. I'd say it's more along the lines of someone doing something that harms someone else when they don't have to, just for power, for gain. The spider needs to eat the fly. Also, the Goa'uld were not going on instinct. They were making choices on what to do. There's nothing instinctual about posing as gods.

And, I don't think there's a choice only between "no interference" or "taking over and controlling everything." I think it's possible to have a middle ground and decide when it's right to step in. And, this is one of those times. Doing nothing can also lead to complete destruction. And, I don't believe any being in destined to take things overboard. Would some take it too far? Yeah, the Ori have. But, I think it's foolish for each and every Ancient to believe if they ever acted they would be in danger of becoming like them or causing trouble. That just leaves you paralyzed with fear. And, you don't have to be thinking in cosmic, universal ways to understand that any action can have a ripple effect. If someone doesn't see a huge gaping hole and is about to walk into it, do I scream "look out!"? I can reason that this person might be on their way to kill someone, and falling in the hole saved someone's life. In which case, it's better I do nothing. It may not be galaxies, but the principle applies.

I also don't think it's a universally accepted rule among them that non interference is the best method. Obviously, Oma felt differently, Merlin, Morgan le Fay, Orlin. I'm not saying that it means that we have to agree (I just do) just that I don't think it's been presented on the show as the right course of action in any case. Just like the speculation, "what if the Ori are really good" I don't buy, because they've been written as bad (and I don't see the show doing a really cool "hey, you just thought they were bad" thing), and I think the story is supposed to be that it's equally wrong to sit by and do nothing.

But, even if that's totally wrong, and non interference is the best or the most prudent, or the only option, I don't believe that Daniel has ever felt that way, so I don't see him going back on his own code to say he wanted help.

Actually it's been stated numerous times the Ori gain POWER by having worshippers, so yea they don't need it to survive, but they have found a way to gain power by having "mortals" worship them. The ancients simply choose to refuse this type of power gain. As for your "middle ground", you might want to do some research into Buddhism and Jainism for further insight into this ethical question. To ascended ancients, life and death don't really have meaning anymore, because they exist eternally. So with that, it doesn't matter if there's suffering or pain so long as the people that are experiencing it have found a way to ascend to a higher plane that escapes that suffering and pain and desire and corruption of the physical world. This is what happens to Abydos and the follower of Oma when he gets shot by the Go'auld. If they haven't then they will continue unto this cycle until they do. It's up to you and you a lone to reach this higher plane, because we can see what happens when someone that doesn't have the mental capacity/knowledge/experience/maturity ends up ascending (Anubis), which is exactly what the go'auld do. And that leads me to another thing, as a spider has to eat, the go'auld is actually in it's nature to pose as gods. Because this is just another form of a parasitic nature of a creature, or a further developed one which makes sense for a sentient parasite. Just as a caveman seems barbaric and evil to a modern day human, the Tok'ra are developed/cultured Go'auld, that have learned to live in harmony with their host even as a parasite, and seem vastly superior or "good" to an "evil" go'auld.

However, the ancients are wrong in thinking that their plane of existence is beyond the reach. We see now that even ascended beings can be corrupt in their ways and seperate, just like in the physical plane. What they should be doing, is perhaps not interferring in our realm, but waging a war in their realm already. This would have an after affect on our realm in anycase, but not a direct interference by them, such as them destroying their followers ships for us, etc.

Armagaiden
July 29th, 2006, 03:32 AM
Daniel is meant to be the one that understands and respects the point of view of the aliens. He's meant to be the 'heart and soul' of SG1. But now, he hardly seems concerned for the other point of view anymore.

In case you haven't noticed, people do change over time as experiences change them and add to them. With that said, we've seen what the results of the ancients "viewpoint" has been, such as Anubis's time of wonton destruction including the planet that started it all and ended Daniels ascended nature, Abydos.

While alien viewpoints have been critical in cases such as the Unas where our interaction has had a direct influence/interference/counter-reaction/viewpoints, this is a time when their viewpoints haven't been brought to bear by us "interfering" or meddling (unless you consider us using the ancient communication device as meddling, which in that case the ancients should've destroyed all of their technology to prevent people from using what others have labored/developed for and haven't reached the mental state to be responsible for such things, just like the go'auld, and middle eastern tribes utilizing rocket propelled grenades, kalishkinovs and christian american governments weilding nuclear bombs.) with them and instead their people (the ori since they are a faction of ancients) are interfering with us, and they have a responsibility to stop them.

It'd be like us allowing the rogue NID to roam free killing and stealing and waging war on primitive alien cultures simply because we don't want to interfere with those alien cultures developments. We, it won't matter because they'll be wiped out by the NID anyways!

AutumnDream
July 29th, 2006, 03:35 AM
I find it funny that the Ori bestow powers upon humans. Possess certain ones. Control their way of life. Have them make powerful weapons and ships using their knowledge. Create armies from them.

But one ancient can't just whisper a little clue to Daniel. Oh, noooo. I think the realm of Ancients needs new, more logical leadership.

Konman72
July 29th, 2006, 03:35 AM
Oh and I was doing more than arm & fist pumps, I was clapping and yelling like a madman when that ori ship got blown outta the void. BOUT ******* TIME.
My reaction when the Ori ship went KABOOM!....

"WHOO HOO! *fist pumping* *stand up*"

Then my brother, who had been watching in another room runs into my room...

Brother: Did you see that?!
Me: Hell yeah I did, that was frickin' awesome!
Brother: Yeah it was!
*high five*
Other (non-gatehead) brother: *staring at us both from the doorway* Something cool happen?
Us: HELL YEAH!

So, yeah, it was a definite geekgasm moment for both of us. I'm downloading the episode now just so I can watch it again.

Dani347
July 29th, 2006, 03:51 AM
Daniel is meant to be the one that understands and respects the point of view of the aliens. He's meant to be the 'heart and soul' of SG1. But now, he hardly seems concerned for the other point of view anymore.


Wouldn't that mean that he would need to respect the pov of the Ori, of the Goa'uld, of the people who enslaved the Unas? And, it's easy to say, "well, they're the bad guys" but if the good guys are doing something that you believe is wrong (not just a different way of thinking where either side could be right depending on your point of view), should you still say "well, I respect the way you think?" I don't see Daniel as ever having a strict, no sway, one size fits all,understand the beliefs of others at any cost. If it's merely a difference of opinion or a different way of doing things, yeah, he's "you have your way, I have mine, and I respect that." But, I also think he's always had a very strong idea that some things are just wrong, and can't be justified as a cultural difference thing. On a smaller scale, and I'll say right now, I don't know if this is a good example at all, but take Cor-ai. At first, even when they accused Teal'c and were putting him on trial, Daniel was okay, lets respect them when it came to having a trial, because at that time he didn't think it would lead to Teal'c actually being in danger. But, after that, he didn't respect the need for Teal'c to atone by giving his life or Hanno's point of view that Teal'c deserved to die, but was all for Jack bringing in the troops to get Teal'c out. He didn't have an attitude that he should just understand them, once he realized what their pov would entail. Bad example? I don't know, but it was the closest I could find.

And, sorry, I'm just feeling really long winded here, so it's taking me much longer to make my point than probably necessary.

Konman72
July 29th, 2006, 03:57 AM
To quote Daniel, "this is about survival!"

At this point all bets are off. Even if Daniel had moral objections to the Ancients helping us out, we aren't talking about the goa'uld remaining in charge or taking over Earth, we are talking about the death of billions, possibly trillions, and enslavement of the rest. Morality and ethics no longer play into the equation, even for Daniel. And that is why I am loving this so much. To see Daniel truly afraid and willing to forego his beliefs...amazing.

captain jake
July 29th, 2006, 03:59 AM
Daniel is meant to be the one that understands and respects the point of view of the aliens. He's meant to be the 'heart and soul' of SG1. But now, he hardly seems concerned for the other point of view anymore.

Yes you are correct he has changed he has opened his eyes and realized that he can't reason with evil. As I have said before I don't believe his change in character is a bad thing I believe it to be a GOOD thing. I always liked Daniel but in the last couple of seasons I have LOVED Daniel.

I believe he is concerned for the other point of view. For instance if we were to go to a planet with a peaceful race that was about to die Daniel would do everything he could to save them. However when it comes to ridiculous things like a rule preventing thousands of life's from being saved he will encourage the braking of that rule.

macktheknife
July 29th, 2006, 04:59 AM
Brilliant ep.

2 birds with 2 "stones" = awesome.

Ugly Pig
July 29th, 2006, 06:23 AM
Yay, finally an all-out crossover between SG-1 and Atlantis! I've been wanting to see this ever since Atlantis started!


PIGGY'S USELESS OPINION
of 'The Pegasus Project'

This episode delivered everything I was expecting, and more. One Ori ship down, three to go, yay! And for the moment they can't even bring reinforcements, am I right? Guess something is finally going our way in this conflict! :)

The Ancients... sigh. Will they ever get their heads out of their non-corporeal asses and realize that their "interference" is not just wanted, but completely justifiable? Even when their own existance is threatened, they won't do a thing about it and, in fact, actively keep others of their kind to do so. Guess they're pretty fanatic about their rules.

Fun to see the two casts interact like this. McKay and Sam, of course, haven't worked together (not counting alternate timelines and hallucinations) since 'Redemption', four years ago, so to be given a chance to see their relationship show up again is just great. Seeing Sheppard and Mitchell interact is something I've wanted for some time, to see if the universe would explode from cool guy overload. Guess it didn't, but it must have been close. Weir and Daniel have scenes together again as well... They made a nice team in 'New Order' so this is welcome. Even Zelenka made an appearance, although he didn't interact with any of the SG-1 cast members.

Random Observations!
- First appearance of Atlantis, Sheppard, Zelenka, the Wraith (or at least a Wraith hive ship) and other Atlantis personell in an SG-1 episode.
- Is it me, or did it seem like Mitchell and Sheppard already knew each other?
- Lots of music from Atlantis was used in the score (appropriately enough), the Atlantis main title theme being the most obvious piece. I also noticed that in the holograph room, some of the music was the same as used in scenes taking place in the same room on Atlantis episodes (specifically; 'Rising').
- Landry did not appear in this episode.
- Teal'c is now the only (current) member of SG-1 not to have been to Atlantis. And to date, the only Atlantis cast member he has met is Dr. Weir, as he was absent for all of McKay's apperances in earlier seasons.
- The first episode this season - of either show - not to feature Woolsey.
- Lots of funny in this episode. McKay's experience in 'Grace Under Pressure' acknowledged. The lemon. Vala pointing out that she "only" interfered twice with Daniel's plans to go to Atlantis.

Great, great fun. :)


http://photobucket.com/albums/v413/uglypig/thumbsup.gif

Maj_Cliffhanger
July 29th, 2006, 06:55 AM
Should the Ancients interfere...

You know... sometimes I think that thin line they walk is a broad walkway. They *do* interfere - interterence up to a certain point is tolerated. It's when it becomes *overt* interference that the Others intervene. Morgan was permited to give Daniel the gate addresses - if her plan had worked we would have never known of her 'interference' (Note, she gave them to Daniel - not just anyone. Weir asked the same basic question and got nowhere.) They even permitted her to interact with Daniel telling him a bit of the Ascended history and even that the two of them had met when he was ascended. It wasn't until she moved to aid them more directly that she was pulled out of there.

Another example of what I'm trying to say is in Abyss. Daniel was allowed to interact with Jack but not overtly help him. At one point he leaves because 'I had something I had to do'. We do not see him overtly help Sam, Teal'c and Jonas - but, imho, he gave them each just a little 'nudge'. Nothing that they could or would ever attribute to anything but their own intellect... He interfered, but it was very, very subtle. And he was very careful not to take credit for it.

Yeah... I figure there are a lot of Ascended who follow in Oma's footsteps (we know there were others beside Daniel) and they are helping us - just in ways that we will just never know.

As long as we don't know, it's allowed... Our helpers just have to be very subtle. And in the end, we still have to do 98% of it on our own. Daniel probably knows it, or would figure it out if he really thought about it, but he feels the crunch of time which an Ascended doesn't. So he got a little impatient and Morgan was punished because she dared sympathise with that.

(Just don't ask me to explain why Oma was permitted to save/ascend all the Abydonians. Must have been an Anubis-sized loophole in the rules somewhere!)

travis
July 29th, 2006, 07:13 AM
Fantastic ep, so many emotion going through me in 45min.
I pretty much agree with the majority so I won't repeat it.
Bloody awsome ep.:D

rarocks24
July 29th, 2006, 07:28 AM
This is by far the best Stargate episode ever, and reaffirms the capability of what TPTB are capable of, after the not so great episodes of Morpheus and Misbeggoten. This episode showed an incredible amount of dedication, humor, and yet, showed a sense of realism and finality that made this a shining example of what TPTB are capable of. I was by far proud of this episode, and this episode alone is worth buying the DVD.

The characters showed strength and intelligence, and had an interesting plot, and a shockingly stunning conclusion. In the episode, SG-1 decides to attempt a mission that would allow the stargate to dial out to another in the Milky Way by way of feeding off a black hole in the Pegasus Galaxy, with the opposite ring near the supergate, effectively allowing the gate to jump so to speak from the Stargate to the Supergate.

Whilst they are attempting to cause the wormhole to jump, Atlantis detects a hive ship on approach to the Odyssey. Due to it's current location, Odyssey cannot receive communications from Atlantis. Teal'c does not receive communication about the Hive ship on approach until seconds before the hive ship opens fire. Teal'c sacrifices his location to get the information to the Odyssey, where Cam Mitchell decides to pull off a daring stunt, which shows that he can lead. This to me is Cameron's first decision which, although risky worked in such a way that gave us such a shockingly pleasant conclusion.

In an effort to disable the hive ship, they slingshot around the black hole, cutting very close to it, with the hive ship following suit. Using the gravity field, they are slung outside the colored aura encircling the wormhole. The hive ship, which followed suit, had many of its systems affected, including the jamming signal, effectively allowing the nuclear devices to be beamed aboard the hive ship (this shows that like Hermiod, Kvasir has the intentions of living).

The nuclear devices are successfully beamed aboard the hive ship and the hive ship goes kaboom. The wormhole on the other side jumps, and the Ori ship is destroyed by the kawoosh. This entails the shockingly pleasant conclusion of SG-1 for several reasons.

1) This brings the amount of destroyed hive ships up to 12? Meaning there are only 48 remaining hive ships, not including the other hive ships that have been warring with each other that we don't know about.
2) One of the awe powerful Ori toilet ships have been affectively destroyed. The fact that it was destroyed by two full powered nuclear bombs detonating on a hive ship causing a gate to jump only enhances the irony of the situation.
3) This means the all-powerful toilet ships can be effectively disabled.

I am however am shocked that the Ancients are so strick to their rules they can't see through to reason that it is in their own interests as well that this weapon is found and destroyed. This is imperative. :mad:

On the other hand, this did prove one thing, the Ancients are capable of seeing reason, because if the mortal rival of Merlin was able to, then other Ancients may as well. :)