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    Fraternisation and all that fun stuff

    I keep hearing about the regulations regarding fraternisation, meaning that Sheppard, or say Weir can’t get involved with ‘so and so’ because it would be against those regulations.

    What does this involve? And if it’s in effect in Atlantis (I assume it would) who can Weir, or Sheppard, or indeed McKay date without fear of fraternisation.
    ----
    There is something extraordinarily delightful in getting intensely
    serious about something intrinsically silly.

    #2
    Between officers and enlisted, or any members of the same command, regulations prohibit any form of fraternization. I don't think civilians and military people would need worry, unless the civilians signed some sort of contract forbidding it as well.
    "I could have sworn that was an aspirin I took this morning...."
    -----

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      #3
      Or someone within the direct chain of command, regardless of rank, if one is over the other and has supervisory authority over the other.

      I don't think the civilians and military would be allowed to on Atlantis because: A) There is a chain of command, even with civilians and B) the civilians are contracted with the military and are subject to some of the same regulations as far as behavior that effects whatever mission they would be on.
      If a civilian is in charge of the operation then they would not be allowed to get involved with any of the military personnel because of the chain of authority or chain of command.

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        #4
        Originally posted by ladysarah
        I keep hearing about the regulations regarding fraternisation, meaning that Sheppard, or say Weir can’t get involved with ‘so and so’ because it would be against those regulations.

        What does this involve? And if it’s in effect in Atlantis (I assume it would) who can Weir, or Sheppard, or indeed McKay date without fear of fraternisation.
        It seems rather cruel if the frat regs are in effect in Atlantis, since there aren't exactly many dating possibilities for the expedition team outside their group but at the same time, given their isolation and the difficulty with arranging transfers, I could understand that nobody would want to risk jeopardizing work relationships if personal relationships didn't work out.

        Since Weir is in charge, she probably wouldn't be able to date any of the expedition team if the frat regs apply to her and, as ranking military officer, the same probably goes for Sheppard, at least as far as other military personnel and members of his team go.

        I wonder what the case is with Dr Beckett and Dr Heightmeyer - are doctors and psychiatrists allowed treat people with whom they are personally involved or does that apply only to their relatives?

        Sig courtesy of RepliCartertje

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          #5
          Originally posted by ReganX
          It seems rather cruel if the frat regs are in effect in Atlantis, since there aren't exactly many dating possibilities for the expedition team outside their group but at the same time, given their isolation and the difficulty with arranging transfers, I could understand that nobody would want to risk jeopardizing work relationships if personal relationships didn't work out....
          Cruelty has nothing to do with it, really. Military discipline of all sorts would have to remain in effect in order for the expedition to remain effective, not to mention a high degree of professionalism (McKay aside) for the civilians. Besides, their goal is to, essentially, salvage Atlantis, not to start dating.

          Of course, Human nature is difficult to overcome....
          "I could have sworn that was an aspirin I took this morning...."
          -----

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            #6
            Originally posted by Maastrichian
            Cruelty has nothing to do with it, really. Military discipline of all sorts would have to remain in effect in order for the expedition to remain effective, not to mention a high degree of professionalism (McKay aside) for the civilians.
            I agree. Even if they were cut off from Earth for an extended time, the US military personnel would still be expected to adhere to the regulations. They're who the regs apply to. As for the civilians, we're not entirely sure who they work for, nor what rules or code they're answerable to. We've seen dating among the civilians, and between civilians and lower ranking officers, so there is some leeway.

            As for Sheppard, it's possible that the frat regs preclude him from dating anyone in Atlantis. At the very least, it certainly rules out Teyla, as she serves directly under his command on his team, and all female military personnel in the expedition.

            I'm not sure how it applys to Sheppard and Weir, though. It's a question I've been asking for a while. Civilians don't have direct command over a military unit, so that area seems to be a fuzzy. Rules-wise, at least. A relationsip between those two would probably raise questions on ethics and professionalism.


            a time to mourn

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              #7
              Originally posted by Hatcheter
              I'm not sure how it applys to Sheppard and Weir, though. It's a question I've been asking for a while. Civilians don't have direct command over a military unit, so that area seems to be a fuzzy. Rules-wise, at least. A relationsip between those two would probably raise questions on ethics and professionalism.
              Aside from Weir being a civilian, the potential problems would probably be similar to the ones there might have been had Jack and Sam been romantically involved as base commander and CO of SG-1 respectively.

              Sig courtesy of RepliCartertje

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                #8
                Originally posted by ReganX
                Aside from Weir being a civilian, the potential problems would probably be similar to the ones there might have been had Jack and Sam been romantically involved as base commander and CO of SG-1 respectively.
                Would it? How, exactly? (I've been seeking a definitve answer for quite some time now.)


                a time to mourn

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                  #9
                  Originally posted by Hatcheter
                  Would it? How, exactly? (I've been seeking a definitve answer for quite some time now.)
                  I don't know what the official stance would be, but I could see a relationship between Sheppard and Weir being frowned upon because of the potential for trouble.

                  For example, Weir seems to okay all missions through the Atlantis 'gate. What if her concern for Sheppard's safety led her to assign his team the safer missions, to planets known to be more peaceful, perhaps even putting the other teams at risk by assigning them missions they mightn't have been as equipped for?

                  If Sheppard believes that Weir is making a wrong choice, would he be either more or less likely to challenge her or to countermand her orders if they were personally involved?

                  What happens if the relationship doesn't work out? It's difficult enough to replace Atlantis personnel and it could be awkward for the members of the expedition team if the working relationship of the person in charge and the senior military officer is compromised because of hurt feelings.

                  Even if Weir and Sheppard would never allow their personal relationship to affect their working relationship, I can understand why others would have their concerns.

                  Sig courtesy of RepliCartertje

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                    #10
                    Originally posted by ReganX
                    I wonder what the case is with Dr Beckett and Dr Heightmeyer - are doctors and psychiatrists allowed treat people with whom they are personally involved or does that apply only to their relatives?
                    I think there's a rule about personally involved as well. However, if it was an emergency in the case of Beckett and there wasn't another doctor as qualified as him, then I think the treatment would be allowed to take place. From the psychiatrist point of view, though, I don't think it would be allowed because objective third parties are usually better in that position.

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                      #11
                      Weir is a civilian and therefore doesn't have to follow military fraternization rules. But as the above poster mentioned it could be frowned upon and certaintly interfere with how she runs Atlantis if she was to be involved with John. Once feelings get in the way then it is not always easy to make the best decisions. At the end of the day I think it would be up to Weir herself whether she wanted to go the route of dating someone under her command.

                      The same would apply to John and Teyla. Again she is a civilian and does not need to adhere to military frat rules.
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                        #12
                        Originally posted by bluealien
                        The same would apply to John and Teyla. Again she is a civilian and does not need to adhere to military frat rules.
                        But wouldn't Sheppard have to obey the rules against becoming involved with a member of his team even if Teyla was exempt?

                        Sig courtesy of RepliCartertje

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                          #13
                          Originally posted by ReganX
                          But wouldn't Sheppard have to obey the rules against becoming involved with a member of his team even if Teyla was exempt?
                          He is not breaking any rules if he is dating a civilian. Teyla is a civilian. Again it could be frowned upon by the military and they could probably make John's life difficult and order him to remove her from his team. If this was the case he could just assign her to another team.
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                            #14
                            Originally posted by ReganX
                            But wouldn't Sheppard have to obey the rules against becoming involved with a member of his team even if Teyla was exempt?
                            You are correct. As I said, as long as Teyla serves on Sheppard's team, or is under his command, he is forbidden from having any personal relationship with her. The frat regs do specify civilians under the command of an officer, so the two of them have the same barrier that has kept Jack and Sam apart for all these years: a soldier can't have an overly close relationship with a subordinate.

                            If Teyla wants to have a relationship with someone who wouldn't have command over her, Beckett for example, that'd be just fine. Being civilians as well, Ronon and Rodney may not be off limits either. Maybe Major Lorne, I'm not sure how the two stand with each other in the military contingent's chain of command.

                            It's possible that that chain of command aspect of the frat regs reaches up from Sheppard to Weir as well, forbiding him from pursuing a relationship with her, though I'm not certain of this interpretation.

                            Or may be willfully ignoring it. For Jor's sake, of course.


                            a time to mourn

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                              #15
                              In real life, being involved with someone in your chain of command would be a big problem, but I think it can easily be overlooked in a tv show. By the way, you can't have people of equal rank in the same office dating either. I was military and saw many people including myself get moved to other offices.

                              It's easier to build UST with co-workers on a tv show than it is to build UST with a main character and a minor character. The main character with the minor character just wouldn't be as compelling. That's why so many people want to see Sheppard with either Liz or Teyla.

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