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Darkstar
July 6th, 2006, 01:31 AM
OK so I hit a snag of sorts, I'm Writing a Fic story at the moment that includes Earth's sun, basicly the sun itself is used as a means to threaten and damage Earth, but the small problem is that I am a little of a obsesive perfectionist and before i fully finish up this idea I just want to ask a question relating to the above because I'm no scientist and could use the grey matter of somebody who may know more about it.

Q: What Element/Material in a theoretical or actual sense be required to make a star expand unaturally and in a short space of time, see I would think off the top of my head that because our sun is made mainly of Hydrogen that perhaps more Hydrogen may be required to be infused into the sun and cause it to basically chain with the extra Hydrogen and burn hotter and increase in mass, I could be wrong but I would be very appreciative to know in a nutshell just so I don't make some silly error on what may be a simple series of facts.
:D

Commander Ivanova
July 6th, 2006, 03:01 AM
Technical, huh? You weren't kidding.
Think you need to get Carter or McKay on this one. Unless one of the 100s of theoretical physicists on Gateworld can take a break from their important thunking, whumping and shipping duties to help you out.

Wraith Scientist
July 6th, 2006, 08:22 AM
There is no element that you can drop into a star that will make it burn hotter or explode or anything like that.

Here's my best suggestion:

Take a minature black hole and throw it into the star. The black hole will fall to the centre of the star and start to consume the gas around it and will grow in size. The gas will heat up immensely due to fusion and friction. The star will collapse into the black hole in a massive supernova-like gamma-ray burst.

To create a minature black hole simply compress a small amount of matter (ie. only a few atoms) to create a very small one, and then just feed it with matter until you have it at the size that you want.

Secondly, you could fire the black hole at such high speed into the sun that it flies in one side and out the other, consuming a significant amount of matter in the process and probably disrupting the sun enough to cause some solar instabilities

If you need any other scientific assistance I would be happy to help :)

rarocks24
July 6th, 2006, 05:32 PM
I wonder if you could generate power from such a device (you know, that's capable of harvesting raw power from a miniature black hole), and whether it would be as much as from a ZPM.

Major Tyler
July 6th, 2006, 05:35 PM
I believe stars expand when the hydrogen they burn is replaced by helium. I'm not sure if intentionally injecting helium would cause an artificial expansion, through.

jonno
July 6th, 2006, 06:08 PM
I believe stars expand when the hydrogen they burn is replaced by helium. I'm not sure if intentionally injecting helium would cause an artificial expansion, through.

Well pretty much how Tyler said - this is how our sun will become a giant:


They are stars of 0.4 - 10 times the mass of the Sun which have exhausted their supply of hydrogen in their cores and switched to fusing hydrogen in a shell outside the core. Since the inert helium core has no source of energy of its own, it contracts and heats up, and its gravity compresses the hydrogen in the layer immediately above it, thus causing it to fuse faster. This in turn causes the star to become more luminous (from 1,000 – 10,000 times brighter) and expand

So, the key is to somehow cause the star to start burning in shells. This mucks up the gravity balance in the star and can cause it to expand.

Wraith Scientist
July 7th, 2006, 01:41 AM
Maybe throwing a white dwarf into the sun would do the trick? It would act as an inert core and cause the hydrogen to fuse faster. The star may increase in luminocity and the increase in energy from the fusion reactions may cause the star to expand into a red giant.

Or just drop a very large rocky planet (preferably iron-rich) into the sun's core. If you drop in a planet big enough the sun will either throw off it's outer layers and cook every planet in the systrem, or explode in a supernova and completely vaporise every planet in the system.

Third option, throw one end of a womhole into the centre of the sun and throw the other end into a star that has already gone into it's red giant stage, or just into deep space. This will exaust the sun's fuel and hopefully accelerate it's transition to a red giant.

Darkstar
July 7th, 2006, 02:11 AM
Yay! that was great thanks for the help, I'll give a good read through the suggestions, Somebody posted a wikipedia quote but I'm a little skeptical on some of the things that wikipedia has due to the simple nature that any tom dick and harry can just come along and post any old crap, but I'm grateful of the wikipedia quote and the fact they took the time to post it which seems to me (although I'm no scientist) to be relativly acurate.

I probably will have science questions in the near future so stay tuned and I'll be back soon.

:D Green for all!

Wraith Scientist
July 7th, 2006, 03:26 AM
Here's a compilation of the methods that could be used to destroy or damage the Earth using the sun:

Just Add Helium

Just pump helium into the sun to accelerate it's transition to a red giant.

Plausablilty level: 3/10 (requires a ludicrously large quantity of helium and a lot of patience)

Rocked

Throw a large rocky (preferably metal-rich) planet (or probably many rocky planets and asteroids) into the sun to form an unfusable core. The sun will either blow off it's outer layers or explode in a supernova. Either way you get a pretty nebula afterwards, which is a bonus.

Plausablilty level: 7/10 (relatively easy, but might require alot of rock)

Blackholed

Throw a black hole into the sun and it will form a mini-collapsar and explode. BE WARNED: The explosion will generate a gamma ray burst so powerful that it may well sterilize nearby star systems too. Spectacular but messy

Plausablilty level: 4/10 (you need the technology to make and move black holes)

Wormholed

Throw a wormhole into the sun. Then either leave the other end out in deep space or throw it into a star that has already reached red giant stage. This should artificially and rapidly speed up the sun's transition to a red giant. It's an elegant solution, but requires wormholes.

Plausablilty level: 8/10 (just use a stargate)

Manipulated

Either find a way of inhibiting nuclear fusion reactions or changing the gravitational or strong nuclear forces to manipulate the star into red giant stage/supernova or whatever.

Plausability level: 1/10 (changing the laws of physics is impossible)

immhotep
July 7th, 2006, 04:51 AM
How about beaming mass out of the sun. Thats what the asgard did...depends if this fic is stargate based.

CeeKay Sheppard
July 8th, 2006, 02:26 PM
How about leaving the sun alone and messing with the Earth instead? I realize this would require a slight change in the plot, but if your villain had the technology to somehow strip out the ozone layer, then all land-dwelling life would be wiped out by the UV light. Perhaps your villain could infiltrate most or all of the Earth's major industries and start pumping out CFC's, or something like that.

Wraith Scientist
July 8th, 2006, 03:04 PM
How about leaving the sun alone and messing with the Earth instead? I realize this would require a slight change in the plot, but if your villain had the technology to somehow strip out the ozone layer, then all land-dwelling life would be wiped out by the UV light. Perhaps your villain could infiltrate most or all of the Earth's major industries and start pumping out CFC's, or something like that.

Or maybe the villain could use some ozone-destroying nanites?

Or just fill their ships with a chemical designed to destory the ozone layer, with a potency greater than CFCs, and a longer life, and just dump tons of that into the Earth's atmosphere

Or maybe the alien sun could be reaching red giant stage, threatening their civilisation, and so they use the wormhole method (see above) to both attack Earth and also to 'heal' their star by connecting it with a younger star. That way they kill two birds with one stone ;)

Or maybe they use the black hole method, but at the moment of collapse get Earth's stargate to dial all other gates in the galaxy (like at Dakara). The collapsar will destory the solar system, and the gamma-ray burst will travel through the gate any destory all other life in the entire galaxy. Alternatively collapse many stars and open up a hyperspace window around the star at the moment of collapse so the gamma rays can travel faster than light and sterilize the whole galaxy fast.