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GateWorld
August 5th, 2004, 07:01 PM
<DIV ALIGN=CENTER><TABLE WIDTH=450 BORDER=0 CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=7><TR><TD STYLE="border:0;"><DIV ALIGN=LEFT><FONT FACE="Arial" SIZE=2 COLOR="#000000"><A HREF="http://www.gateworld.net/sg1/s8/806.shtml"><IMG SRC="http://www.gateworld.net/sg1/graphics/806.jpg" WIDTH=160 HEIGHT=120 ALIGN=RIGHT HSPACE=10 VSPACE=2 BORDER=0 STYLE="border: 1px black solid" ALT="Visit the Episode Guide"></A><FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#666666">DISCUSS ...</FONT>
<FONT SIZE=4 COLOR="#0066BF"><B>AVATAR</B></FONT>
<FONT SIZE=1>EPISODE NUMBER - 806</FONT>
<IMG SRC="/images/clear.gif" WIDTH=1 HEIGHT=10 ALT="">
Teal'c is trapped in a virtual reality simulation, in which he must defend the base from a Goa'uld super-soldier incursion.

<B><A HREF="http://www.gateworld.net/sg1/s8/806.shtml">Visit the Episode Guide >></A></B></FONT></DIV></TD></TR></TABLE></DIV>

Skydiver
August 13th, 2004, 06:06 PM
Not too bad of an episode. The endless resets could have been boring, but they weren't because they were subtally different each time.

we got to see teal'c die like a dozen times, sam, jack even daniel all bought it.

it was an interesting delving into teal'c's mind and the plot twist at the end, priceless!

Right now, my one quibble is 'armoury'

Suspense, drama, no glaring plot holes. An exploration of Tela'c, doctor Lee, the return of Tomin from Learning curve as a doctor at the sgc, some cool, if slightly geeky, 3D graphics of the 'game'

definitely an interesing hour

kiwigater
August 13th, 2004, 06:08 PM
whew! You guys had me worried! I was wondering if I was gonna post the first reply to this!
Anyway, who didn't guess it would take the "team" working together to solve the problem?? (me likes!).
OK, minor technical difficulties here..... more comments later...

marimba26
August 13th, 2004, 06:11 PM
Gads! Loved this ep!!

Funny, high body count, a good bit of Jack, and the end had a cool twist (seems they're putting in a lot of twists this year)!!

Kind of like 'Window of Opportunity' on crack--interesting twists every time. LMAO at Chevron Guy and Siler!! Chevron Guy got to die (in his chair, no less) and Siler as Goa'uld--TOO FUNNY!!! Nice team scene at the end--ROFL at that!!!

All in all, loved it!! :D :D :D Definitely going to watch it several times! :D

the adventurer
August 13th, 2004, 06:18 PM
Fitting that the final objective is to have all of SG-1 survive. Notice how everytime Teal'k failed, it proceaded the death of another member of SG-1. So in the end, Teal'k wasn't fighting the Gou'ald, he was preserving his team and defeating the Gou'ald

Ilios
August 13th, 2004, 06:18 PM
I thought it was a good episode!! Every reset was different from the one before it, which made the episode very interesting.

P90
August 13th, 2004, 06:18 PM
As soon as I saw the graphics for the simulation I started praying that the SG-1 video game would be half as cool. :)

Faith
August 13th, 2004, 06:23 PM
Oh I loved it!!!


I want a StarGate video game like that , Those graphics were so cool, I really like the game graphics of Daniel Jackson.

I really like Siler being a snake.

I loved the twists and turns.

I also loved knowing Teal'c played DOOM.

This was a great Ep!

Ilios
August 13th, 2004, 06:35 PM
Oh I loved it!!!


I want a StarGate video game like that , Those graphics were so cool, I really like the game graphics of Daniel Jackson.

I really like Siler being a snake.

I loved the twists and turns.

I also loved knowing Teal'c played DOOM.

This was a great Ep!

Remember to use spoiler space ;)

Stncold
August 13th, 2004, 06:37 PM
SPOILER SPACE










Very nice Teal'c ep and great Team part at the end.


Jack's Matrix line, too classic.

Teal'c having played Def Jem Vendetta, that really intrigues me, I wonder what character he would most use, DMX I'm thinking.

Teal'c playing DOOM, heh, right before Avatar came on, I myself was playing DOOM3, and I've got to say, no game currently out there can even begin to compete with DOOM3's graphics, but that virtuality game was very close, and there was no lag whatsoever on that screen we saw, wish I could play DOOM3 on a computer like that, could crank it all the way up to ultra settings and get no lag, guess that would be a perk for Teal'c, playing a game like DOOM3 on a extremely soupped up computer.

Great twist at the end also, and Siler being a snake lol.

Chalk up another "It's what we do"

Wonder how many more we're gonna get before season is over.

ShadowMaat
August 13th, 2004, 06:41 PM
Umm... Question. Isn't this the ep discussion thread? So doesn't that imply, by its nature, that it has SPOILERS?

As for the ep... eh... the body count stuff was fun, but the resets got a little tedious for me. Yay to Siler, though, he got his ante upped for a little while. :D Loved the reactions. "SILER?!" *boggle* hehe

Also, it seemed an awful lot like a giant advertisement for the upcoming SG-1 game...

Pegasus
August 13th, 2004, 06:58 PM
I half tuned out when I heard that there wasn't an external shutoff - I couldn't stop thinking how dumb that was. But I loved the last 10 minutes! :D

The last last scene seemed to end very abruptly - was somewhat jolting.

Always good to see Dr. Lee. I liked how the other scientists in the background beamed at their accomplishments in being test subjects. :p

Faith
August 13th, 2004, 07:03 PM
Yes this is a ep discussion thread so no spoiler space needed as far as I know.

Elwe Singollo
August 13th, 2004, 07:04 PM
I half tuned out when I heard that there wasn't an external shutoff - I couldn't stop thinking how dumb that was. But I loved the last 10 minutes! :D

The last last scene seemed to end very abruptly - was somewhat jolting.

Always good to see Dr. Lee. I liked how the other scientists in the background beamed at their accomplishments in being test subjects. :pYah, that scene i laughed a little :) Also, i loved that many of the background characters such as Dr. Lee, Siler, and Davis (although hes in many of the episodes), are showing up to make appearences :D

Mio
August 13th, 2004, 07:08 PM
I couldn't help but laugh when the computer screen said 'Armor 100%'

Elwe Singollo
August 13th, 2004, 07:10 PM
I couldn't help but laugh when the computer screen said 'Armor 100%'Yah reminded me exactly of Doom or something, or maybe other games like it, like Half-Life.

Also, didn't anyone just laugh a little at Daniel getting shot a few times when he first entered the game?

keshou
August 13th, 2004, 07:17 PM
I really wasn't looking forward to this episode, video games and shoot-em-ups not being my favorites, but I ended up really enjoying it!

The production and direction of the episode was very cool with the video game graphics they edited into the live action shots. The repeated loops of the game - it was great.

Poor Teal'c losing heart in the middle there just made me want to hug him. I'm glad Daniel came in to give him a helping hand because I really can't stand to see Teal'c like that. Nice to see Chevron Guy and Siler getting their moments, especially Siler.. Hee :D

Avatar ended up giving us some interesting insights into Teal'c's character and I really didn't expect that from this episode -- what a nice surprise! I'm really enjoying seeing Sam and Daniel and Teal'c as more of a team this year and even with RDA's limited presence I thought his time was again used very effectively in this episode. The face-off at the end between the teammates was an interesting scene and they all survived and won the game. 'Cause "that's what we do". I love my team. :)

They call me Tim
August 13th, 2004, 07:19 PM
I loved this episode! This is one of the best I have seen in a while. IMO, the last scene where Teal'c had to choose to trust O'neill, DJ, and Carter showed that he beat the game because he has faith and trust in his teammates that with them they will beat the Goa'uld...of course that is what I took from it:) also loved the look on Teal'c's face when he shot DJ the first time...great ep

Mio
August 13th, 2004, 07:22 PM
A pity we didn't get to see:

The Return of the Gamekeeper!


I miss him!


"I told you they will ruin everything! First, the garden. Next, the entire planet!!!!"

Elwe Singollo
August 13th, 2004, 07:23 PM
It got depressing a little when Teal'c just gave up and sat down for a few resets, and yes, i also thought RDA's limited schedule didn't show in this episode.

Me also loved near the beginning of the episode, where Jack talked about a Beginner's difficulty :D

ShadowMaat
August 13th, 2004, 07:25 PM
Me also loved near the beginning of the episode, where Jack insisted on a Beginner's difficulty :D
Loved Lee's comment about that... And the sudden back-pedalling he did after he said it. hehe. Poor guy...

Mio
August 13th, 2004, 07:26 PM
Who else thought the CG Daniel had wierd eyebrows?

:D

Elwe Singollo
August 13th, 2004, 07:28 PM
Who else thought the CG Daniel had wierd eyebrows?

:DGood thing sci-fi repeats the episode, so i can focus on the eyebrows, because i didn't really pay attention the first time, haha... :D

ShadowMaat
August 13th, 2004, 07:37 PM
One thing that bugged me... In every scenario we saw, Jack died almost immediately. And yet... he showed up at the END of the last scenario. He would have been my prime pick as the goa'uld- how else could he have lasted so long? And yes, I know he's a master tactician and all that, but it still threw me. Of course, it was probably meant to be jarring...

Gotta say again how much I loved Siler's moment of glory. And the "eighteen million squibs". :D Well-used, every one of them. ;)

Redwall
August 13th, 2004, 07:37 PM
Definetely a hilarious episode, I was cracking up the whole time. Favorites:

- the whole beginning dialogue
- "Armor: 100%"
- "I'm not a Goa'uld, don't shoot me!" *BAM*
- "Siler?!"

Also, did anyone else think the glowing eyes looked really wierd, especially Daniel?

ShadowMaat
August 13th, 2004, 07:39 PM
Also, did anyone else think the glowing eyes looked really wierd, especially Daniel?
Must have been the glasses. ;)

Still not keen on the ep as a whole, but individual moments were pretty cool. I just can't shake the feeling that it was one giant commercial for the video game and that really bugs me...

Mio
August 13th, 2004, 07:40 PM
Must have been the glasses. ;)

Still not keen on the ep as a whole, but individual moments were pretty cool. I just can't shake the feeling that it was one giant commercial for the video game and that really bugs me... I don't think he was wearing glasses when he did the glowing eyes thing.


And yes, they did seem wierd. Very dark orange. Don't they use new special effects guys?

Elwe Singollo
August 13th, 2004, 07:42 PM
I just saw the episode again, and it seemed like Daniel was wearing glasses. Maybe the reason for the unusual color is because we haven't seen the glowing eyes in a while, and maybe they forgot how to do it haha:rolleyes:

crazylinguist
August 13th, 2004, 08:16 PM
I really enjoyed this episode. It gave an interesting insight into the mind of Teal'c. I love the part when they are deciding who is going to go help Teal'c and they all say "I'll do it" at the exact same time. And when Daniel gets shot when he first enters the game. :D

Larry The Chevron Guy
August 13th, 2004, 08:17 PM
I think the game will be alright, concidering the video game scenes were done by the team that is making the real game. I hope it's different from other FPS games like they say, though.

Good episode. I liked it a lot.

Livi2Jack
August 13th, 2004, 08:24 PM
[Spoilers]
In the last scene where the team points weapons at one another, Daniel or Teal'c should have just gone ahead and shot Jack and zatted Siler, since Jack could not stop the reactor anyway and it would have eliminated two possibilities about who was the goauld. It also could have goaded Carter into firing.

NightGloom
August 13th, 2004, 08:26 PM
I liked the camera movement while in the game scenario too, kinda Matrix-y. The resets got a little annoying after awhile, it went on slightly too long especially this part....

Look, Teal'c sitting down... now they're running past him

RESET

Here's Teal'c sitting at a different angle...

RESET

We got a bunch more angles to go- so here's Teal'c sitting at yet a different angle

....

kiwigater
August 13th, 2004, 08:30 PM
Must have been the glasses. ;)

Still not keen on the ep as a whole, but individual moments were pretty cool. I just can't shake the feeling that it was one giant commercial for the video game and that really bugs me...


ARRGGHHHH I had this big long detailed analysis typed out and then GW ATE it (before I even had a chance to preview it :mad: ). Not that anyone is really that interested in what I had to say but to summarise......

It's nice to know I'm not the only one thinking these things! Maybe it's just that I'm not much into computer games *ducks from cries of outrage from computer gamers :p :D ), but I didn't much like the "computer game vision" stuff. (rapidly........ losing...... interest!.... :p :D ). Luckily it didn't last too much longer after that.

I like this doctor much more than the chick from the last ep (forget the name). I only wish he wasn't a guy, we're distinctly lacking in women on the show lately *grumble grumble*.

Right, let's see if I can get this to post without GW eating it....

ShadowMaat
August 13th, 2004, 08:37 PM
Yeppers. Liked the doc. I can't say particularly why, though. Maybe because the actor's performance isn't quite as deadpan as Alisen's. He has inflection and tone and more than one expression...

kiwigater
August 13th, 2004, 08:56 PM
Yeppers. Liked the doc. I can't say particularly why, though. Maybe because the actor's performance isn't quite as deadpan as Alisen's. He has inflection and tone and more than one expression...

Yeah, I think that's it. Alisen seemed very...... stiff.... I could get to like this guy OK, he's no Janet *sniff*, but it's unreasonable to expect him to measure up to a character we spent 7 years with.... :(

BTW, your new sig cracked me up! Might one enquire who your squishy is.... *cough Muttley cough* :p :D Personally I love Bruuuuuce "maaate" (maybe it's the kiwi in me :p :D )

NightGloom
August 13th, 2004, 08:57 PM
Yes, this doc was so much better, that woman one reminded me of a female version of Ben Stein- but more monotone. Although, you can never replace Dr. Fraiser.

Buzz Lightyear
August 13th, 2004, 09:00 PM
Right now, my one quibble is 'armoury'

Easily explained. Either Dr. Lee or one of his co-workers who helped him programmed the simulation has a Canadian or British background, hence "armoury " and "armour" rather than "armory" and "armor". :cool:

ShadowMaat
August 13th, 2004, 09:01 PM
Yeah, I think that's it. Alisen seemed very...... stiff.... I could get to like this guy OK, he's no Janet *sniff*, but it's unreasonable to expect him to measure up to a character we spent 7 years with.... :(
It isn't that I expect ANY doctor to be like Fraiser. I don't. I expect them to be themself. But I didn't get any sense of "self" from Alisen's character. I did, however, get a bit of one from... er... the guy, though.




BTW, your new sig cracked me up! Might one enquire who your squishy is.... *cough Muttley cough* :p
You can ask, but I'm under no obligation to tell. :P

Buzz Lightyear
August 13th, 2004, 09:11 PM
Still not keen on the ep as a whole, but individual moments were pretty cool. I just can't shake the feeling that it was one giant commercial for the video game and that really bugs me...

Look beyond the video game marketing angle and just consider the episode itself. Did you enjoy it? And if you did, then nothing else really matters. :p

Personally, I found this episode as fun as the X-Files episode which had Mulder and Scully trapped inside a video game. Maybe even more fun, since I like SG-1 more than X-Files.

Despite the "game resets", the repetition was really quite minimal. And who would have thought you could get such an emotional journey from the stoic character of Teal'c, and in a video game setting, no less!

Overall, tight script, great direction, fine acting. More of the same, please! :)

Buzz Lightyear
August 13th, 2004, 09:13 PM
BTW, your new sig cracked me up! Might one enquire who your squishy is.... *cough Muttley cough* :p :D Personally I love Bruuuuuce "maaate" (maybe it's the kiwi in me :p :D )

I'll spill the beans... It's a quote from "Finding Nemo". ;)

ShadowMaat
August 13th, 2004, 09:16 PM
I'll spill the beans... It's a quote from "Finding Nemo". ;)
The movie is known. What isn't known is the identity of MY "Squishy". And I'm not telling. :P

The ep as a whole... even disregarding the gaming angle, it didn't do a lot for me. It was a backwards attempt at character development for Teal'c, but I think it could have been handled a better way. I dunno what way, but something different...

NightGloom
August 13th, 2004, 09:18 PM
Personally, I found this episode as fun as the X-Files episode which had Mulder and Scully trapped inside a video game. Maybe even more fun, since I like SG-1 more than X-Files.



Wow! I thought I was the only one who thought of The X-Files ep. But then,I think every sci Fi show has to have an episode where a character gets stuck in VR. Probably some kind of unwritten rule they have.

ShadowMaat
August 13th, 2004, 09:21 PM
Wow! I thought I was the only one who thought of The X-Files ep.
Oh, I thought of it, believe me. But I haven't seen that ep and am trying desperately not to think about it. It sounded incredibly asinine for X-Files (even at that point in the series) and I don't want that to pollute Stargate any more than strictly necessary.

kiwigater
August 13th, 2004, 09:21 PM
The movie is known. What isn't known is the identity of MY "Squishy". And I'm not telling. :P

The ep as a whole... even disregarding the gaming angle, it didn't do a lot for me. It was a backwards attempt at character development for Teal'c, but I think it could have been handled a better way. I dunno what way, but something different...

well, if it's character development for Teal'c you're looking for then next weeks ep sounds like one for you....

ShadowMaat
August 13th, 2004, 09:23 PM
well, if it's character development for Teal'c you're looking for then next weeks ep sounds like one for you....
Actually, next week's ep sounds even more cringe-inducing than this week's. :P

kiwigater
August 13th, 2004, 09:27 PM
I'll spill the beans... It's a quote from "Finding Nemo". ;)

um, thanks! But as Shadow mentioned I know what movie the quote is from, I was just teasing her about the identity of "Squishy" :D :D There is much to admire in Finding Nemo, and I get to admire it frequently when watching my best friends kids :p :D :D

Oh! On topic you say?? well, was that an off colour joke of Jack's (well, I suspect it was RDA being RDA :p :D ) about um, "it not being to hard... I mean difficult".... ??(or I have been spending entirely too much time in the gutter :p :D ).

kiwigater
August 13th, 2004, 09:29 PM
Actually, next week's ep sounds even more cringe-inducing than this week's. :P

You and me both think so...... for the same reason! but we fear entirely opposite outcomes I suspect! :p :D :D
I'll take refuge in the shipper thread, and you can toss off colour taunts at us from the safety of your sulky thread ;) :p :D

ShadowMaat
August 13th, 2004, 09:30 PM
Oh! On topic you say?? well, was that an off colour joke of Jack's (well, I suspect it was RDA being RDA :p :D ) about um, "it not being to hard... I mean difficult".... ??(or I have been spending entirely too much time in the gutter :p :D ).
I wondered about that. It seemed like an illogical correction. Was it meant to be off-color (and if so, puh-lease! Talk about pathetic!) or was it just Jack trying to use a mildly fancier word (OOo, three syllables instead of one!)?

kiwigater
August 13th, 2004, 09:34 PM
I wondered about that. It seemed like an illogical correction. Was it meant to be off-color (and if so, puh-lease! Talk about pathetic!) or was it just Jack trying to use a mildly fancier work (OOo, three syllables instead of one!)?

I just figured it was one of RDA's infamous ad-libs and it got left in (kinda like the "Who's your Daddy!" line in New Order. It really didn't make sense as anything other than an off-colour joke ( to me at least :eek: if it came across as something else to everyone but me I really AM spending too much time in the gutter ;) ).

Shipperahoy
August 13th, 2004, 10:05 PM
I liked this episode a whole lot more than I thought I would. The Gamekeeper is my least favortite Stargate episode so I groaned aloud when I found out the premise of this episode and the commercial for it didn't inspire any confidence either, but it wasn't near as repetitive or dull as I feared it would be. I loved that Siler was the Gou'ald and the team's reaction to it. I was kind of suprised that it was Daniel that they sent in just because I figured they would want to send in someone with more combat training but thinking back on it I guess it makes sense. I know it was supposed to be serious but I couldn't help myself from chuckling every time Daniel shot Teal'c. All in all I really enjoyed it.

Dragonlor
August 13th, 2004, 10:21 PM
This is exactly why all games need to have built in cheat codes!

aAnubiSs
August 13th, 2004, 10:23 PM
Haven't read all the comments but still feeling like i should post my stuff.

WOW, I LOVED this episode. I thought it was wanna be ok, turned out to be great.

Only one thing to compain on. Why didn't Teal'c just blow up the base himself? That would remove the treath.

aAnubiSs
August 13th, 2004, 10:28 PM
This could turn out to be a major episode in the world of StarGate.

No longer do they have to train cadettes the regular way. When you think they are ready to go off-world, put them in the chairs and let them do a mission.

Practising shooting with Zats and Staff weapons would also be possible.

New pilots can feel how the F-302 is in combat.

They can start seeing how it would work if they went "all stealth". I mean silencers on everything, Headshots only. Stabs to the lungs with a knife. Surpressed sniper rifles. Those needle shooters.

The possibilities are endless. They just have to fix that failsafe....

I'll think up some more soon.

Bobthespirit
August 13th, 2004, 10:38 PM
This episode is probably the first real 'fun' episode this season. It was really enjoyable..the kind of episode you don't have to take seriously. Each season needs a few of those. Seeing Teal'c continuously get screwed in the simulation was engaging. They took a premise that could have been rote and tacky and made it really cool. Stargate tends to do that.

I'm glad this one turned out to be better than expected, since Atlantis did one of those 'primitive world with some strange ritual custom' episodes, which was also kind of done in a TNG episode.

DJFavorite
August 13th, 2004, 10:51 PM
I really enjoyed this episode. I thought that we got to learn more about how Teal'c really thinks and feels when it comes to the 'fight'. The importance of his friends and the defeat of his enemy.

I also thought it was good to see Teal'c in a state of defeat. It showed how he is vulnerable.

Buzz Lightyear
August 13th, 2004, 11:32 PM
Who else thought the CG Daniel had wierd eyebrows?

:D

CG Daniel reminds me of Gordon Freeman in the computer game Half-Life. :cool:

Darren
August 13th, 2004, 11:44 PM
Definitely can't be an ad for the video game, since it won't be available anywhere for at least another year.

I loved this episode. It was a cool idea that could have gone either way in execution; leave it to Martin Wood to make it awesome. The animation sequences could have been tacky, but Perception did great and it gives me great hope for the quality of next year's PC / console game.

And hey, we got some pretty major character development for Teal'c! It's a stunning revelation to think that, at least subconsciously, he doesn't believe the Goa'uld can truly be defeated. He's always been Mr. Positive. ("False god. Dead false god."

On a personal note, this is the one they were shooting when I was on set in April, which made it extra cool to watch. I saw them filming the scene where the super-soldier shoots up the lab, Daniel loads the power cell, and leaps out to shoot him down. Then they wandered over to the corridor and did the scene where Daniel zats Teal'c and confronts him on the floor.

morjana
August 14th, 2004, 12:23 AM
SciFi Channel has updated the "Stargate SG-1" and "Stargate Atlantis" sites with episode synopses, photos, sound bites, and video clips for this week:


STARGATE SG-1

Episode synopsis for "Avatar," four photos

http://www.scifi.com/stargate/episodes/season8/0806/

and a Teal'c sound bite on…His Favorite Videogame

http://www.scifi.com/stargate/episodes/season8/0806/tealc_clip.html

Download preview video clip of "Affinity":

http://www.scifi.com/stargate/teaser/index.html



STARGATE ATLANTIS

Episode synopsis for "Childhood's End," plus four photos

http://www.scifi.com/atlantis/episodes/season1/episode106/

Download teaser clip for "Childhood's End":

http://www.scifi.com/atlantis/episodes/season1/episode106/video_clip.html

DID YOU KNOW?

Wraith pilots routinely wear a bracelet that serves as a homing beacon. Upon activation, it silently pulses and grows red, transmitting its location through space — though not subspace, meaning its signals cannot transmit through a Stargate. McKay has speculated that there are relay devices on certain planets that pick up the transmission and alert the nearest Wraith ship.

Download teaser for "Poisoning the Well":

http://www.scifi.com/atlantis/video/teaser.html

In the "Aliens" section, the fourth entry in the Wraith Journal:

http://www.scifi.com/atlantis/aliens/



|*|(*)|*|(*)|*|

Morjana

SG1-Spoilergate
http://tv.groups.yahoo.com/group/SG1-Spoilergate/

Richard Dean Anderson Fans
http://movies.groups.yahoo.com/group/rdandersonfans/

Elwe Singollo
August 14th, 2004, 12:26 AM
On a personal note, this is the one they were shooting when I was on set in April, which made it extra cool to watch. I saw them filming the scene where the super-soldier shoots up the lab, Daniel loads the power cell, and leaps out to shoot him down. Then they wandered over to the corridor and did the scene where Daniel zats Teal'c and confronts him on the floor.You lucky goose! I'm so jelous :rolleyes: Haha... Must have been really kewl to see that, especially in person.

TameFarrar
August 14th, 2004, 12:37 AM
As an RPG ADDICT I think I saw this episode in a different light. I had a blast watching it :)!!

When Teal'c just WOULD NOT GIVE UP and then just sat down
I totally understood his frustation and pain. That need to defeat THAT ONE enemy that continuously eludes you.

Little bits and pieces - All the scientists grinning in the background was a hoot :)
-Liked the Dr. He made his part memerable for me, especially with that *Pulp Fiction* moment. Jack "I don't want to see that again"
-RDA's time was used well yet again - very nice
-*Action Jackson* was Daniel's new name to Hubs :)
- It was nice to see so many characters used that we have come to know over the seasons. That was really fun :)
- SILER!!!! need I say more
- all three saying "I would" when told the risk of going in to save Teal'c

and last but not least CJ did an excellent job in my opinion. It was nice to see more depth in his character. Bravo CJ :)

overall I just had a lot of fun watching this episode, It had team galore and it had action. It had moments for everyone. I just really enjoyed it. :)

Elwe Singollo
August 14th, 2004, 12:53 AM
As an RPG ADDICT I think I saw this episode in a different light. I had a blast watching it :)!!

When Teal'c just WOULD NOT GIVE UP and then just sat down
I totally understood his frustation and pain. That need to defeat THAT ONE enemy that continuously eludes you.

Little bits and pieces - All the scientists grinning in the background was a hoot :)
-Liked the Dr. He made his part memerable for me, especially with that *Pulp Fiction* moment. Jack "I don't want to see that again"
-RDA's time was used well yet again - very nice
-*Action Jackson* was Daniel's new name to Hubs :)
- It was nice to see so many characters used that we have come to know over the seasons. That was really fun :)
- SILER!!!! need I say more
- all three saying "I would" when told the risk of going in to save Teal'c

and last but not least CJ did an excellent job in my opinion. It was nice to see more depth in his character. Bravo CJ :)

overall I just had a lot of fun watching this episode, It had team galore and it had action. It had moments for everyone. I just really enjoyed it. :)I share your RPG loving :D When that third kull warrior phases in like a predator (the movie), i was like, did the game just add a kull warrior, or can the kull warrior cloak. Was the lady scientist who was among the other scientists in the background the same one from the episode Avenger 2.0?

Orce
August 14th, 2004, 03:33 AM
SPOILER SPACE










Very nice Teal'c ep and great Team part at the end.


Jack's Matrix line, too classic.

Teal'c having played Def Jem Vendetta, that really intrigues me, I wonder what character he would most use, DMX I'm thinking.

Teal'c playing DOOM, heh, right before Avatar came on, I myself was playing DOOM3, and I've got to say, no game currently out there can even begin to compete with DOOM3's graphics, but that virtuality game was very close, and there was no lag whatsoever on that screen we saw, wish I could play DOOM3 on a computer like that, could crank it all the way up to ultra settings and get no lag, guess that would be a perk for Teal'c, playing a game like DOOM3 on a extremely soupped up computer.

Great twist at the end also, and Siler being a snake lol.

Chalk up another "It's what we do"

Wonder how many more we're gonna get before season is over.

Do you know why Teal/c said he played Def Jam: Vendetta? It's because Christopher Judge(Teal'c) was the voice of the final boss in that game. I remember renting it and at the beginning there was a cut scene and the voice that said the monologue sounded familiar so I looked in the manual for the game and found out Christopher Judge did that voice.

elhSG1
August 14th, 2004, 04:32 AM
I really enjoyed watching this one, it was fun. Loved the Matrix comment, I only saw the first one but I gotta agree. I didn't expect Siler to be the goa'uld that was a nice twist, I was half expecting either Jack or Sam's eyes to start glowing. And they got to blow the SGC up and kill all the major characters how often do they get to do that! I'm gonna have to watch this one again later, I know I probably missed some things, always do in my first viewing. I can't believe there's only 4 more episodes until the mid-season break, sure has gone by fast.

AlphaBlu
August 14th, 2004, 04:52 AM
Avatar was a lot of fun, but like last week, it's just another filler ep. No actual impact upon the arc of Stargate. I really hope Season 8 doesn't end up like the first half of Season 7, with 6 from 11 eps as just Filler. So far we're 2 from 6, which is better odds, but I'm still wary.

BYE

keshou
August 14th, 2004, 05:15 AM
well, was that an off colour joke of Jack's (well, I suspect it was RDA being RDA :p :D ) about um, "it not being to hard... I mean difficult".... ??(or I have been spending entirely too much time in the gutter :p :D ).
Well I guess I'm in the gutter too because that's exactly where my mind went! LOL! I'd bet money it was an RDA adlib.

Bandersnatch
August 14th, 2004, 05:39 AM
Howdy Campers

I'm posting this before I read anyone else's replies -- AOL has been seizing on me and I want to get my thoughts out before it inevitably does it again. So, "Avatar"...

* Quite a good episode, better than what I had thought after seeing the advertisements all week.

* The team dynamics were there for a few fleeting moments at a time, even though it all took place at the SGC. I loved the "You might have done it again, sir" remark from Carter.

* The whole videogame aspect -- I'm a gamer myself (less now than I used to be -- probably a good thing) and I like First Person Shooters -- this is what the CGI graphics the team was seeing appeared to be like. The concept was neat -- being stuck in a game. I'd love to try it! Maybe this will spark a SG-1 game...

* The new doctor was nice. Not Dr Fraiser by any means, but he sure beat the pants off the one in "Lockdown."

* I loved the ending -- it just felt like SG-1 had "come home" for a while.

I don't know why I really liked this episode. O'Neill wasn't present much, which usually slows things down for me. But when he was there, he was there and that made it worth it. The story was good, believable, and it flowed well. Maybe I'm just a sucker for VR stuff, I dunno.

Scarym1
August 14th, 2004, 07:04 AM
This ep ROCKED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I loved it. It was suspenseful, dramatic. I love how they made it look like a real video game. CJ was incredible!!!!!!!!! It was the BEST EP so far this season!!!!!!!!!!!

I just finished watching the DL. If it looks this awesome on my computer, I can''t wait to see it on my TV. WOW!!!!! It had a lot of twists. I was on the edge of my chair.

I like how it was Daniel who went into help him. It made sense. He was Thunkable!!!!

Scarym1
August 14th, 2004, 07:06 AM
Fitting that the final objective is to have all of SG-1 survive. Notice how everytime Teal'k failed, it proceaded the death of another member of SG-1. So in the end, Teal'k wasn't fighting the Gou'ald, he was preserving his team and defeating the Gou'ald
WOW That is a great point!!!!!!!! I never thought of it like that but it is so true.

Scarym1
August 14th, 2004, 07:14 AM
um, thanks! But as Shadow mentioned I know what movie the quote is from, I was just teasing her about the identity of "Squishy" :D :D There is much to admire in Finding Nemo, and I get to admire it frequently when watching my best friends kids :p :D :D

Oh! On topic you say?? well, was that an off colour joke of Jack's (well, I suspect it was RDA being RDA :p :D ) about um, "it not being to hard... I mean difficult".... ??(or I have been spending entirely too much time in the gutter :p :D ).
I thought the same thing about the "hard" comment. Time spent in the gutter is never wasted time.;)

Liv
August 14th, 2004, 07:21 AM
I loved Daniel´s "What?!", when he´s talking to Teal'c in the sickbay, it sounded very much like how Jack would say it.

The Matrix-remark was great and so was Jack´s line about how: "Obviously there´s something defected with this thing" in response to Teal'c saying O´Neill dies well in battle.

I really want to see more of Dr. Lee in future episodes, he was a lot of fun.

All in all, a highly enjoyable episode. And I´m not even a 'game'-person. ;)

MajShep
August 14th, 2004, 07:41 AM
Great episode! I loved the scenes shown in the video game format, and especially the panning shots when Daniel entered the game. Very "Dead Zone"-esque, but really cool. The episode even subdued my impulsive channel-changing for fear I'd miss something (a pretty impressive feat, actually).

norriski
August 14th, 2004, 07:45 AM
OK, I really like this ep...It was well done and well written, and as a lot of people have said it could have gone the other way.....

I was great to see the insight into the mind of Teal'c....and his never give up attitude and that little part of him that doubted about being able to defeat the Goul'd....

Love the three of them all saying "I'll do it" at the same time, (they really are a family)...and it made perfect since to me that it was Daniel that did it....as Carter said they didn't need Jack's Black Op's mind in there and it made since that Carter was stay out because of her science background and the possibility that she might be about to him, so we get Daniel in the Game (Thunk)....

Love the first few time around with Teal'c killing Daniel and his little comments about that...something like "I'm going to have to get use to this"...

I really enjoyed the end where it was the "team" that came together...I think someone said this earlier but I think it showed that no one person is going to defeat the Goul'd but as a team having faith in each other that goal is attainable (sp?)

Dani347
August 14th, 2004, 08:29 AM
and it made perfect since to me that it was Daniel that did it....as Carter said they didn't need Jack's Black Op's mind in there and it made since that Carter was stay out because of her science background and the possibility that she might be about to him, so we get Daniel in the Game (Thunk)....

Yeah, it was precisely because Jack had so much military skill that he couldn't go in. Probably Sam, too. The game might have incorporated them and made it even harder.

ShadowMaat
August 14th, 2004, 08:45 AM
So it was Daniel's general incompetence ("lack of experience"?) that made him get selected? LOL!

Gotta say, though, the "It's what we do" thing was funny the first couple of times, but I think they can give it a rest, now...

Elwe Singollo
August 14th, 2004, 08:47 AM
I never really caught the other times they said that line, but i guess it can get tired, haha... Well i guess Daniel was perfect, since he wasn't really a military expert or something, but the 2 seconds did help :rolleyes:

ShadowMaat
August 14th, 2004, 08:52 AM
I could be wrong, it just feels like Jack has said it in every ep this season...

pettygrew
August 14th, 2004, 09:28 AM
In case anyone didn't recognize him, the actor who played Dr. Carmichael played the father in Learning Curve.

I now understand why Daniel hasn't been goa'uld before. His eyes are too small which doesn't appear too well when they flash.

Earlier someone commented how Jack-like Daniel's dialogue was in the infirmary. I thought the same thing when Daniel zat Teal'c and said "Sorry Buddy." I don't think I've ever heard Daniel call Teal'c buddy before. Jack does lots of time.

I did think when Daniel found the micro chip in Sam's office was a little too convenient.

kiwigater
August 14th, 2004, 10:38 AM
I could be wrong, it just feels like Jack has said it in every ep this season...

You should stop reading my mind..... it's starting to scare me ;) :D
Except this week is was "It's what we do" rather than "I do" .
I'm thinking of a number between 1 and 100..... :p :D :D

Ugly Pig
August 14th, 2004, 10:49 AM
Last week was the fifth episode of the season, both for SG-1 and for Atlantis. I don't know if anyone has fully realized this yet, but this means we're already halfway through to the dreaded mid-season break! The horror! And now, with the sixth episode over and done with, it's even closer. Pretty soon, I'm gonna have nightmares. Speaking of nightmares, here's


PIGGY'S USELESS OPINION
of 'Avatar'

Wow... A sequel to 'The Gamekeeper'. I knew it would have the VR chairs in it and everything, but this didn't just refer to that episode - it was a true sequel in that it told the same type of story, but in a different setting. Where 'The Gamekeeper' had scenarios to be tried over and over again taken from Daniel's and Jack's minds, this time Teal'c similarly has to overcome the challenge of a repeated virtual scenario in which the rules are constantly changed.

It's common for Stargate SG-1 to recycle music from previous episodes. I find it very appropriate that this one recycled music from 'The Gamekeeper'. For instance: Towards the end, as Teal'c slumps to the ground realizing how hopeless the situation is and we rapidly "flash" through several rounds of the game, we hear the music originally used for the scene(s) in 'Gamekeeper' where Jack's old buddy dies in his arms. Of course, this music has been reused before (not in the last couple of seasons, though, I think) in completely unrelated episodes so I'm not sure if the reference was deliberate, but it was a nice touch anyway.

Anyhow - how 'bout those game graphics, huh? Wonder why they'd go through the trouble of creating actual computer game-like footage when we, the audience, would surely accept live-action footage without blinking? I suspect it is actual computer game footage. As we all know, an SG-1 game is in development, and don't I remember someone (Martin Wood, perhaps?) saying it would be somewhat based on this episode?

Hey, wait... I didn't even say if I liked the episode yet, did I. Well, being the SG-1 junkie that I am, how could I not? It won't be found in my personal Top Ten or anything, but it was decent enough. Which is why it pains me to have to point out a... PLOT HOLE! (GASP!!)

Yes, it's true... I noticed a plot hole, and I noticed it after my first viewing (which I usually don't, so it must have been pretty obvious. I wonder how many people have mentioned it already... I'll have to go back and check once I've posted this). Here goes: Appearantly, the chair was able to read Teal'c's mind in order to make the game more challenging. Well... Back in 'Gamekeeper', the Keeper told SG-1 that his VR system couldn't read his or Sam's minds. In Teal'c's case because of his symbiote, and in Sam's case because of her previous blending with Jolinar. One could argue that Teal'c would no longer be immune since he lost Junior, but then what about the data the residents had on file from six years ago? How'd they get that back then?

Ah, well. I'm sure there's some brilliant apologetic mind around here who will be able to come up with a semi-believable explanation. ;) Until then, here's a quote of my favorite line of the episode:

"Carter, all I heard was 'Matrix', and I found those films quite confusing." - Jack

Major Fischer
August 14th, 2004, 11:22 AM
Now mind you I haven't read anyone's responses before posting mine, so if I'm repeating points I'm sorry.

I hated this episode. Rather, hate's a strong term, it wasn't my cup of tea. It seemed like a rather pointless excercise in random combat with no real goal. The 'virtual reality' screen Carter and company were watching was ... annoying, but most of all I kept thinking that military officers would not refer to a valuable training aid as "a game". The repeated use of the term bugged the heck out of me.

Oh, and I liked Brightman better than the Dr. Dude... didn't catch his name. Not that I have an attachment to Brightman, but I had less of one to this guy.

Ugly Pig
August 14th, 2004, 11:29 AM
Stuff I forgot to mention!
- Teal'c has played video games? Heh heh. I don't know why, but I'm actually not surprised. :D
- The Goa'uld eye glowing is back! Yay!!
- Goa'uld Siler! Cool!
- Virtual Daniel and Sam not knowing they were virtual! Cool! :D
- Another new doctor?
- Dr. Lee is almost becoming a regular character now...
- Chevron Guy is officially referred to as "Sgt. Harriman" for the first time...
- Jack/Sam/Daniel: "I'll do it!" Funny. But I wonder how they decided on Daniel?
- Broken-down Teal'c. We don't see that too often.

acdj31
August 14th, 2004, 11:36 AM
Who else thought the CG Daniel had wierd eyebrows?

:D

I thought his hair looked funny. Like he forgot to comb it or something.

Liv
August 14th, 2004, 11:37 AM
- Jack/Sam/Daniel: "I'll do it!" Funny. But I wonder how they decided on Daniel?
- Broken-down Teal'c. We don't see that too often.

Oh, I agree, the "I´ll do it!"-scene was just lovely. And funny. I thought the reason that Daniel was chosen, was because he didn´t have much experience in 'combat mode', at least not in a strictly tactical way. He couldn´t mess things up too much by overanalyzing the situation.

And ditto agreement on the Teal'c breakdown scene, I thought that was beautiful and very sad, at the same time. The music highlighted his desperation and defeat, I thought.

Ugly Pig
August 14th, 2004, 11:48 AM
The music highlighted his desperation and defeat, I thought.
Much like the same music highlighted Jack's repeated defeat in 'The Gamekeeper', yes? :D

Liv
August 14th, 2004, 11:52 AM
Much like the same music highlighted Jack's repeated defeat in 'The Gamekeeper', yes? :D

:D

Yes.

... maybe.

It fit the scene, okay? ;)

acdj31
August 14th, 2004, 11:54 AM
I loved this ep. The show reminds me of “Window of Opportunity” which I also loved. I liked it how Teal’c give up. It is showing how he is becoming more human. Especially in next week’s ep.

I like the scene in the infirmary where Teal’c is talking and Sam and Daniel look at each. And then Teal’c says “I am fine”, the look on his face is funny. :D

Daniel and Stiler goa’ulds, I would have never thought of that. :eek:

Replicarter
August 14th, 2004, 11:55 AM
http://www.alphawebspace.com/~karl/GWPT.gif

After last weeks episode, many thought about season 7 went in to my head, and i envisioned S8 turning out like crap, but I really enjoyed this episode, and really liked how they fitted in to many jokes/references, like The Matrix, doom and most of the things Ugly Pig said. Was it just me or did they get the glowing eye thing wrong? it looked very yellow and fake, anyway, I’m not a nitpicker :D

http://www.alphawebspace.com/~karl/GWPB.gif

Major Fischer
August 14th, 2004, 11:56 AM
Which is why it pains me to have to point out a... PLOT HOLE! (GASP!!)

Yes, it's true... I noticed a plot hole, and I noticed it after my first viewing (which I usually don't, so it must have been pretty obvious. I wonder how many people have mentioned it already... I'll have to go back and check once I've posted this). Here goes: Appearantly, the chair was able to read Teal'c's mind in order to make the game more challenging. Well... Back in 'Gamekeeper', the Keeper told SG-1 that his VR system couldn't read his or Sam's minds. In Teal'c's case because of his symbiote, and in Sam's case because of her previous blending with Jolinar. One could argue that Teal'c would no longer be immune since he lost Junior, but then what about the data the residents had on file from six years ago? How'd they get that back then?

That was my logic when i was trying to sort out the plot hole, but I couldn't figure out why it would have the mental imprint on file from six years ago... or why Sam thought she could have gone into help him.

As much as I liked the "I'll go," scene, I can't see Sam forgetting it. In fact they could have done a fair bit with Sam feeling guilty that she couldn't go in and help...

Ugly Pig
August 14th, 2004, 12:02 PM
That was my logic when i was trying to sort out the plot hole, but I couldn't figure out why it would have the mental imprint on file from six years ago... or why Sam thought she could have gone into help him.

Waitaminute... Sam should have been the one to go help him! If the chair can't read her mind, there's no risk of the game learning anything from her to make it more difficult!

Bah, why did I have to notice this? Curse my brilliant brain! :(

Replicarter
August 14th, 2004, 12:06 PM
http://www.alphawebspace.com/~karl/GWPT.gif

Ok, I hate plot holes, so I’ll just make something up, in Gamekeeper, he could access Teal'cs mind, but the Symbiote encrypted the information or something like that, so the Keeper had the information but couldn’t use it, I’m happy now :)

http://www.alphawebspace.com/~karl/GWPB.gif

Ugly Pig
August 14th, 2004, 12:15 PM
Ok, I hate plot holes, so I’ll just make something up, in Gamekeeper, he could access Teal'cs mind, but the Symbiote encrypted the information or something like that, so the Keeper had the information but couldn’t use it, I’m happy now :)

Ah, but that doesn't explain how the people on the planet could have stored his data back then (as was revealed in this episode), and how that data is not encrypted! :p

DarkQuee1
August 14th, 2004, 12:18 PM
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I *really* liked this episode (and I had not thought that I would)--though it was not without problems, including a major one for me with the set-up (further down the post). It was fast-paced and interesting--and a total contrast to the incredibly boring "Icon". A very good Teal'c ep and a pretty good team ep overall. Liked the fact that they trusted each other at the end.

Loved that Siler was the Goa'uld. I always thought it was suspicious, his hovering around all the time with that wrench. <<g>> And remember how he got Jack into trouble in "Upgrades" by throwing himself over that railing! ;)

Problems I had:
1) Even though there was a lot more Jack than I had anticipated--and I liked that!--it still was noticeable that there were things caused by his reduced schedule. There were at least two scenes where, in seasons 1-6, Jack and most likely Hammond would have been present, while here Jack was not there either as Jack or as the base CO. And though they tried to give us an explanation, there is still no doubt in my mind that in seasons 1-6, Jack would have been the one to go in.

1-1/2) They are still using Jack to explain things to the audience, and it adversely affects the character. The Matrix line was "cute", but we have learned this year (from the stuff on the walls in Jack's office) that he not only has a certificate from the AF Academy for academic excellence, but he also has an engineering degree. There is no way he wouldn't have understood Dr. Lee's statement; I did, and I am non-science all the way. If they weren't sure the general audience would get the point, they should have had Jack say something like, "So what you're saying is....blah blah", instead of needing it explained. They have been doing this for 8 years--using Jack to explain things and thus have him ask questions he wouldn't and shouldn't really be asking--and they need to find another way, as it is to the detriment of the character.

2) Because of RDA's reduced schedule (I think) they are using Daniel more in military situations, which is a head-scratcher in terms of believability--maybe they should have explained that Sam didn't go in because her scientific knowledge would be more useful on the outside, but they didn't address it, *despite* the fact that Daniel had been compromised in the scenario by being the Goa'uld. Or, are we to assume that Daniel was sent in precisely *because* he was not an expert--Sam saying that Jack didn't go because adding his skills and abilities to the machine's computer base would be disastrous--and thus didn't have anything to add to the chair's ability to foil TEal'c?
( While I have no problem with Daniel's becoming more field savvy [he should be after all this time], we are seeing too much of a Daniel-Rambo and it undercuts his presumed different perspective. Look at Icon: Daniel did not even suggest trying to talk to Soren or to the people in the bunker; it was just blast away. That makes those times when he suddenly goes "pacifist" look more like plot devices than character. Just MO.)


*Biggest problem for me:*

The set-up. I can understand the people on the Gamekeeper's planet wanting *their* chairs to be controlled only by the user, considering their experiences before (and the fact that, most likely, their "fantasies" would not be violent). However, it makes no sense for the SGC to do that, especially in light of all the things that can go wrong with tech and in light of the nature of the "game" they would be engaging in. They could certainly have insisted that the chair they got had an on/off switch, and they should have. For me, it made everyone involved look very dumb in regard to something about which they should have known better.


J.

Anthro Girl
August 14th, 2004, 12:41 PM
My comments on "Avatar":

"Teal'c is trapped in a video game and running out of lives!!!" - SciFi Announcer in "Avatar" teaser promo. :rolleyes: (Gawd...I still think that teaser line was so stupid and it didn't do the episode any favors.)

I've only had one pass at it, so I'm probably not remembering everything. I also haven't read this thread yet, so apologies for repeating everything.

I liked Dr. Carmichael! Andrew Arlie makes a good doctor and he didn't have that same "I'm a big dummy" look on his face as he did when he (very effectively) played Kalan in "Learning Curve". I hope we see him again.

It's becoming increasingly evident that Dr. Lee's presence is to spread the technobabble around so Carter can do more stuff. Kewl! I really like Bill Dow. :)

I'm not a big fan of video games, but it was neat to see the footage. :cool:

Daniel goes Rambo saves the day! Yay! So, why hasn't he gotten contacts or laser eye surgery to correct his vision? :p

I loved the standoff within the team at the end. That's something we've never seen before and it was a great moment for the whole series. I was almost sure that O'Neill was the Goa'uld, but the truth was a great twist. Siler being a Goa'uld...that should happen more often. :D

The time-loop/reset stuff got a little jarring after awhile, but that was probably the point. It was hard to watch Teal'c "give up", but I'm sure *that* was the point.

Overall, it was a good episode for me. It's not one of my favorites, but probably only because I'm not a big fan of the video game portrayal, even though the footage was cool.

I am kind of surprised that they're doing two Teal'c-centered episodes in a row. Not that Teal'c can't carry it, but it just seems like it would be better if they spread 'em around. I could be wrong, though, since I don't know anything about "Affinity" other than what was in the teaser (HINT: Don't tell me!). Also, it looks like we'll be playing more of the Spot-The-Former-Guest-Star game. ;)

DarkQuee1
August 14th, 2004, 12:57 PM
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Forgot to add: I really liked the Jack/Teal'c scene at the end. Nice brother/friend feel to it.


And I feel really forgetful--comes with age, I guess--that I had not remembered that in the original season 2 ep, the chair could not read Teal'c's or Sam's mind. Big, big plot flaw, that.


J.

Major Fischer
August 14th, 2004, 01:00 PM
Waitaminute... Sam should have been the one to go help him! If the chair can't read her mind, there's no risk of the game learning anything from her to make it more difficult!

Bah, why did I have to notice this? Curse my brilliant brain! :(

Darn it all Ugly Pig, you've made the plot hole bigger. You're right, Sam should have been the one to go in.

Replicarter
August 14th, 2004, 01:03 PM
Im going offline know, so i closed my notepad with readymade IMG codes, so no pritty posts, anyway, yes it does explain everything, even though it was encrypted they could still copy it, just couldent access it, and carter with her super advanced computer that can interface with crystels and everything, could dycript it, she just dident mention it.

Anthro Girl
August 14th, 2004, 01:14 PM
Bah, why did I have to notice this? Curse my brilliant brain! :(
Curses, you Piggy! Knock it off! :p Besides, it's glaringly obvious that at some point they went back to The Gamekeeper's planet and said, "Fix your stupid machine!" :eek: There. Plot hole plugged. :D

Other stuff I forgot to mention or was reminded of:

The Matrix line and the "It's what we do..." line. :D I know some people think the "what we do" line is hokey, but I love it. So there. :p

I actually paused it at the point just prior to the standoff where Carter is working on the generator. We placed bets on who the Goa'uld would be...and we were totally wrong! Loved that! :D

In the beginning, I was thinking we just might see the return of The Gamekeeper just so he could fix his darn machine, but I'm actually glad we didn't. Never really much liked him. ;)

Video Game Daniel not only had bushier eyebrows, but he went a little overboard on the spiky gel, too! :p

I didn't see it as an "advertisement" for a video game, but the same company that is producing the video game did the graphics for the episode. In that sense, yeah...for those people that like that sort of thing, I guess it's neat to get a preview of what it'll look like. If you didn't know that, it would just be cool FX...or in my case, "<shrug>...video game stuff". ;)

The camera movement during the sims when Daniel had the previsions was just great!

Ugly Pig
August 14th, 2004, 02:01 PM
Besides, it's glaringly obvious that at some point they went back to The Gamekeeper's planet and said, "Fix your stupid machine!" :eek: There. Plot hole plugged. :D
Sounds awfully convenient... Works for me. :D

Liv
August 14th, 2004, 02:05 PM
The camera movement during the sims when Daniel had the previsions was just great!

I was thinking the same thing! Great camera workmanship there.

Elwe Singollo
August 14th, 2004, 02:14 PM
Yah, it kind of felt like a fast pace Dead Zone episode with much more visions :rolleyes:

Col.Mike
August 14th, 2004, 02:37 PM
This episode was getting a little boring until that interesting twist with Jackson when he shot the chevron guy. From there it picked back up again. I'm looking forward to next week episode, two weeks in a row where Teal'c is the center of attention. :cool:

AgentX
August 14th, 2004, 03:53 PM
I liked this episode, sure the whole 'trapped in a VR game' has been done multiple times on SciFi shows but I found what set this apart from others was the humour. Jack's little comments were great, there were a couple that I recall actually laughing out loud on including the Matrix one.

Enjoyed the Sam and Daniel chat regarding the creepy nature of the chair's producers having the neural imprint or whatever on file - I would find that a bit unsettling too.

And those game graphics. Those are what I would like to see in a SG1 game, when I first saw the game SGC personel I immediately thought I was watching someone play Goldeneye for the Nintendo 64, they looked so similar and I thought fit the scenario well.

Have the Goa'uld eyes gone down in quality? I mean when Daniel's eyes glow it looked as if he was turning into Catwoman or something. It just looked campy and not spooky. Oh well, minor thing I guess.

NightGloom
August 14th, 2004, 06:16 PM
I think the quality of Daniel's glowing eyes was done purposely to show that they were in the game. I don't know if it was just me, but everything else seemed a little different than if it had been a "real" attack. Meh, maybe I'll just have to go watch it again.

Asgard Buddy
August 14th, 2004, 06:35 PM
Um, forgive the dumb question, but why was it called "Avatar"?

Teal'c
August 14th, 2004, 06:43 PM
Um, forgive the dumb question, but why was it called "Avatar"?
An avatar is a representation of yourself. Like you're Chevron picture there is your avatar, it represents you in the forum. In Andromeda, the Rommie android is an avatar representing the ship in human form. And in this episode obviously Teal'c and Daniel in the game were their avatars, since the real Teal'c and Daniel were sitting in chairs in a lab.

Now, I knew there was a reason I was looking forward to this episode. :D

I think I'm banned from watching episodes at 9am now after the second "OH MY GOD DR. LEE!!!!" incident this season and waking up the house :P Everything about the episode was just so cool. And you could tell all of those scientists were waiting to go home to play Doom3 :P

As for Piggy's "plot hole"... well, obviously part of it is Teal'c is snake-less now. The information from the GK people is easily explained. Teal'c was hooked up and interfacing with the machine, it had to have recorded something. And as for the whole Carter thing, it's very possible they were able to compensate for the blocking of symbiotes etc. so Sam could have gone in, but was too experienced like Jack :P

Edit: Wooo, 1,000th post! :P

Livi2Jack
August 14th, 2004, 06:44 PM
>>>>Daniel goes Rambo saves the day! Yay! So, why hasn't he gotten contacts or laser eye surgery to correct his vision? <<<<

Sometimes Daniel/MS does wear contacts. However, laser surgery is not fool proof. It has risks. And it is not permanent. Also, some types of vision problems still can not be corrected. If MS has one of these or is leary of the procedure, he may be unwilling to undergo the proceedure. I know I am unwilling. A friend of mine did and had alot of problems afterwards. He did not get the results promised and the doctor did not screw up based upon several other opinions. RDA did have laser surgery. So you have to be careful.

Anthro Girl
August 14th, 2004, 06:45 PM
avatar

n. 1. (Hindu Myth.) The descent of a deity to earth, and his incarnation as a man or an animal; -- chiefly associated with the incarnations of Vishnu.

2. Incarnation; manifestation as an object of worship or admiration.

3. Among people working on virtual reality and cyberspaceinterfaces, an "avatar" is an icon or representation of a user in ashared virtual reality. The term is sometimes used on MUDs.

Asgard Buddy
August 14th, 2004, 06:47 PM
Hmmm so I guess it's just one of their more vague title choices :p But I guess it works since when they were viewing what Teal'c saw it looked like a video game. Thanks for the reply.

norriski
August 14th, 2004, 07:10 PM
OK, just a few comments on the Daniel in combat kind'a thing....keep in mind I was even one of the peoplse that said one of the reasons Daniel was the one that went in was because he didn't have the type of background that Jack did..now I feel like I need to explain that a little more....Carter said something about Jack's Black Op's (or Special Op's) training and how that might effect the game...see Jack's military background is not that of a regular member of the military...there are tacts and attitudes that are special to those guys, I think that's why Jack wasn't the one to go in, he could have made the game even harder...I think Carter wasn't it because her scientific background was of more use "outside"...(ok I know that Piggy pointed out a plot issue...the way I dismissed it was they had done a lot of modifications at lest in the programing of the chairs...so it didn't bother me)....as for Daniel, no his training is not military...but in the past what 8 years (OK there's one missing out of that) but none the less, it only makes since that Daniel has more of a "military" mind in some situations, he's been in combat situations so many times in that time that he now has more practical training MOST of those in the military (at least on the show)....I actually like that Daniels character has matured and has become a little more military, but at the same time he's for the most part keep his enthusiasm for knowledge...yes things have changed but if he was still running around looking like a deer in the headlights after all these years we'd be complaining about that...personally IMO they'd done a good job of keeping it balanced....OK I'll stop rambling now...sorry.

Anthro Girl
August 14th, 2004, 07:13 PM
Hmmm so I guess it's just one of their more vague title choices :p But I guess it works since when they were viewing what Teal'c saw it looked like a video game. Thanks for the reply.
What's so vague about it? Avatar is a common name for a virtual reality icon or character representation. I found it less vague than "Icon". ;)

AgentX
August 14th, 2004, 07:23 PM
I think the quality of Daniel's glowing eyes was done purposely to show that they were in the game. I don't know if it was just me, but everything else seemed a little different than if it had been a "real" attack. Meh, maybe I'll just have to go watch it again.

Ya know, I never thought of that. That makes perfect sense.

mysticalweather
August 14th, 2004, 08:09 PM
I really liked this episode. For several reasons:
1) I like video games, so the whole concept appealed to me from the get-go.

2) Dr. Brightman wasn't in it (BIG plus there, I didn't like her at all!)
I MISS JANET!!! *sniffle*
But I do at least like Dr. Carmichael.

3) I thought the team chemistry was good.

5) It was halarious...Teal'c kept killing Daniel! Oh and Daniel's saying "creepy" and "crap!"

4) Cool camera shots *thumbs up to Martin Wood*

Overall, I liked it a lot.

~Misty

Kiarasayre
August 14th, 2004, 08:47 PM
I know I'm new and all, but I can't help but point out that that's two more times Daniel's died. I just found that amusing. ^_^;;

cobraR478
August 14th, 2004, 08:58 PM
Hmmm so I guess it's just one of their more vague title choices :p But I guess it works since when they were viewing what Teal'c saw it looked like a video game. Thanks for the reply.
Would "Teal'c gets stuck in a video game" be better? :P

ShadowMaat
August 14th, 2004, 09:04 PM
Game Over? Def Jaffa Vendetta? Killswitch? No, wait, that's already been used... ;)

Shipperahoy
August 14th, 2004, 09:15 PM
I agree about Dr. Carmichael. I liked him. He was much less uptight seeming than Dr. Brightman.

And I think that the Avatar title is pretty fitting for that episode. That Def Jam Vendetta line had me cracking up. AT and CJ had such huge grins on their faces while saying it that I think maybe they were trying not to laugh. And I have to say that they seem to be using RDA's limited time much better so far this season. He wasn't in the episode much but his abscence wasn't glaring or anything. Even though the episode was centered around Teal'c I still got sort of a team ep feel from it.

Buzz Lightyear
August 14th, 2004, 09:38 PM
I hated this episode. Rather, hate's a strong term, it wasn't my cup of tea. It seemed like a rather pointless excercise in random combat with no real goal. The 'virtual reality' screen Carter and company were watching was ... annoying, but most of all I kept thinking that military officers would not refer to a valuable training aid as "a game". The repeated use of the term bugged the heck out of me.

Actually, the military does frequently use computer games for training in tactics. I suppose the terms "simulator" and "simulations" are also used but they are games after all. And what are live-action training exercises called? War games.

Bobthespirit
August 14th, 2004, 11:09 PM
One thing...

The moment they mentioned "There are two ways to end it. Win, or activate the internal failsafe." I turned to the person next to me and said 'bet you $50 the internal failsure doesn't work'.

Not exactly the most unpredictable of episodes.

Still good episode, though.

Elwe Singollo
August 14th, 2004, 11:30 PM
Well, we all knew Teal'c was going to end up getting out of the game anyways!

Jonisa
August 15th, 2004, 05:10 AM
So it was Daniel's general incompetence ("lack of experience"?) that made him get selected? LOL!

Heh. Well, that's one way of looking at it.

Then again, using that same logic, if virtual Teal'c was trapped in a pyramid, they couldn't send Daniel, because he would know about all the possible booby traps, hidden compartments, curses, and any other dangers that might be lurking there.

And, in the most terrifying scenario of all, if Teal'c had been caught up in the world's longest and most boring physics lecture ever, they couldn't send Sam, because she would get involved in the discussion and come up with questions, arguments, theories and counter theories. The lecture would go on and on and on and on... Poor Teal'c, trapped forever. ;)

Liv
August 15th, 2004, 06:07 AM
The moment they mentioned "There are two ways to end it. Win, or activate the internal failsafe." I turned to the person next to me and said 'bet you $50 the internal failsure doesn't work'.


Yep, that was pretty much my reaction, too. Can´t have something like that actually working, there´s no fun in that. ;)

The surprise would have been if it had worked. "Whoops, all over, no need for a rescue after all. Too bad, Daniel. Maybe next time."

keshou
August 15th, 2004, 06:36 AM
Even though there was a lot more Jack than I had anticipated--and I liked that!--it still was noticeable that there were things caused by his reduced schedule. There were at least two scenes where, in seasons 1-6, Jack and most likely Hammond would have been present, while here Jack was not there either as Jack or as the base CO. And though they tried to give us an explanation, there is still no doubt in my mind that in seasons 1-6, Jack would have been the one to go in.
I agree that in seasons 1-6 Jack would have been the one to go in. I'm also not so sure the Avatar script wasn't originally written for Jack to go in this time. Now that I think about it the dialogue, once Daniel enters the game, sounds more like Jack than Daniel. The whole "Buddy" thing - that's something Jack would call Teal'c, sounded odd coming from Daniel. Where Teal'c says "it is not possible" and Daniel replies "yes it is, that's why I'm here". It was a lovely scene between Daniel and Teal'c but I can sure see Jack saying those lines.

I wonder if they rewrote it, threw in the line about Jack not being able to go into the game because of his tactical knowledge, and used Daniel instead. It may not always be easy to fit all the intended scenes into RDA's shooting schedule. I'm looking forward to JM's production notes on this episode.


They are still using Jack to explain things to the audience, and it adversely affects the character.
Yeah the Matrix line was cute but some of the other stuff seemed to be back to dumb Jack.


While I have no problem with Daniel's becoming more field savvy [he should be after all this time], we are seeing too much of a Daniel-Rambo and it undercuts his presumed different perspective. Look at Icon: Daniel did not even suggest trying to talk to Soren or to the people in the bunker; it was just blast away. That makes those times when he suddenly goes "pacifist" look more like plot devices than character. Just MO.)
This is an action show and perhaps they feel they need the Daniel character to be more action-oriented to take up the slack from Jack!lite. I think Daniel's different perspective is still part of his character but I get the feeling he's finally learning that some situations just can't be solved by talking -- especially when you're dealing with fanatics. I can see where you're coming from on this, though.


The set-up. I can understand the people on the Gamekeeper's planet wanting *their* chairs to be controlled only by the user, considering their experiences before (and the fact that, most likely, their "fantasies" would not be violent). However, it makes no sense for the SGC to do that, especially in light of all the things that can go wrong with tech and in light of the nature of the "game" they would be engaging in. They could certainly have insisted that the chair they got had an on/off switch, and they should have. For me, it made everyone involved look very dumb in regard to something about which they should have known better.
Can't disagree with you there. I thought the SGC should have never considered using the chair if they couldn't turn it off from the outside without injuring the user. Very unbelievable. Still it was an enjoyable episode so I just went with the premise. It might have been better if they'd installed an on/off mechanism and for some (hopefully good) reason it didn't work.

LoneStar1836
August 15th, 2004, 07:51 AM
Going into this episode I had my doubts, especially after last week’s “Icon” which was a real snoozer, IMO. “The Gamekeeper” was never really big in my book so doing somewhat of a sequel was taking a chance. When Teal’c first entered the game, and they showed the game animation, I was like I hope this episode does not turn as cheesy as that looked or the premise of the episode seemed to be. After that I gradually got more immersed in the episode, and it really hooked me when they added Daniel to the mix when he entered the game. I’m sorry, but Daniel getting shot the first time (and the second, third, etc.) by Teal’c was almost priceless. And Daniel is borderline on being my favorite character. :D (I just can’t decide who my favorite is, because I prefer the team.) That must be some kind of theme this season – Daniel getting shot/injured. MS is going to have the acting monopoly on that type of portrayal since that seems to happen a lot to his character. Though I enjoy the way he does it. *slap* (this isn’t the superficial thread). Anyway I just have to say that I was surprised that I really liked this episode. And I liked it even better after the second showing. Not an all time favorite, and not the best episode of the season so far, but it was pretty darn good. The directing was interesting, and the pacing was good, and though the reset sequences seemed repetitious, I didn’t mind them, and I think they were necessary and added to the viewing experience by trying to get you to empathize with the plight of the character. We only lived through a couple of resets, who knows how many Teal’c eventually went through, obviously enough to get him to give up for a couple of cycles, which is a rare character trait for Teal’c.

Should have known they would send Daniel in since he has the less tactical military mind. Oh well, I don’t mind Daniel getting to tote around a gun and show off those muscles. :D Got a kick out of Chevron man ( a.k.a. Sgt. H blah blah blah. I like Davis better but wha’ch gonna do) and Siler getting killed, and Siler being the bad guy. I thought Jack was the goa’uld there at the end and thought they ought to pop him, but like someone said up the thread, if they’d shot Jack, Carter would have probably shot one of them and thus game reset.



Fitting that the final objective is to have all of SG-1 survive. Notice how everytime Teal'k failed, it proceaded the death of another member of SG-1. So in the end, Teal'k wasn't fighting the Gou'ald, he was preserving his team and defeating the Gou'ald
I agree. I hadn’t really thought of it that way until you stated it. Of course Teal’c would consider a successful mission one in which the whole team makes it out alive. He wouldn’t settle for less. That was possibly the final objective to the game since it supposedly was continually modifying itself based on Teal’c’s underlying mentality.

I have to agree with Jack and cringe at the sight of the doctor jabbing that needle in Teal’c. I didn’t want to see that again either. I hate needles. I missed the “Matrix” quote by Jack and twice for that fact. Will have to go back and watch it again. On that note, I think RDA’s screen time was managed effectively. He added to the scene rather than just be there for the cursory remark. The writers and RDA have greatly improved upon that this season, IMO. Jack wasn’t really there, but I felt that he was, rather than MIA. Yeah, he's still playing "dumb" Jack but not to the extent that it had gotten last season. So I consider it an improvement. MS, AT and the other actors, including those portraying Dr. Lee, Siler, the countless airman fodder, etc., did a great job filling out the episode. I felt that the episode had a good balance of team while seemingly focusing on a single character.

The concept of the episode seemed rather lame to me based upon the commercials for it, but after seeing the episode I guess I can see the reasoning behind why the SGC and the military for that matter would be interested in modifying those Gamekeeper chairs to produce a more realistic (minus the pain thing) VR trainer for combat scenarios. So using this episode as a sort of follow up / stand alone worked out pretty good IMO for a story. Yeah, it had its bugs and plot holes, but I found it entertaining and engaging in that it kept me wondering what the final piece to the puzzle was in order for Teal’c to resolve the scenario. Guess I’ll shut up now because my word count feature on MS Word says this ramble is 780 words.

greytop
August 15th, 2004, 10:26 AM
At first I didn't think I was going to like this eisode but the more I watched it I liked it. What I like about it, is when Daniel first came into the game and Teal's shot his a couple of times. Then Daniel finally shot hin with a Zat so he could explain that he was a player too and why he was.

greytop
August 15th, 2004, 10:28 AM
I to bad the Gamekeeper wasn't in it. That would have made things interesting. :) ;) :D

Major Fischer
August 15th, 2004, 10:47 AM
Actually, the military does frequently use computer games for training in tactics. I suppose the terms "simulator" and "simulations" are also used but they are games after all. And what are live-action training exercises called? War games.

I have nearly seen people SLAPPED for calling a simular a game. *shrug*
Sort of like calling a rifle a gun or a ship a boat.

But it's a nit pick, and the ultimate truth was that I just didn't like the episode, but others obviously did. That's fine, not everything is going to be everyone's cup of tea.

Nikkirose
August 15th, 2004, 11:52 AM
I dont know if this has been asked before, but if it has I'm sorry ..... Does anyone know when they will repeat this episode?? I totally forgot to watch it. *smacks head*

DarkQuee1
August 15th, 2004, 12:23 PM
I know I'm new and all, but I can't help but point out that that's two more times Daniel's died. I just found that amusing. ^_^;;


Jack's still ahead. <<g>> He died every time.

J.

epiphany
August 15th, 2004, 01:46 PM
>>>>Daniel goes Rambo saves the day! Yay! So, why hasn't he gotten contacts or laser eye surgery to correct his vision? <<<<

Sometimes Daniel/MS does wear contacts. However, laser surgery is not fool proof. It has risks. And it is not permanent. Also, some types of vision problems still can not be corrected. If MS has one of these or is leary of the procedure, he may be unwilling to undergo the proceedure. I know I am unwilling. A friend of mine did and had alot of problems afterwards. He did not get the results promised and the doctor did not screw up based upon several other opinions. RDA did have laser surgery. So you have to be careful.

According to MS at the NJ creation con, Daniel hasnt' had laser surgery because he (said with great emphasis) "isn't a candidate". :D

There are reasons that people can't have laser surgery, such as having dry eyes, floaters, etc. So it's perfectly plausible for Daniel NOT to have laser surgery to correct his vision.

epiphany
August 15th, 2004, 02:17 PM
This is an action show and perhaps they feel they need the Daniel character to be more action-oriented to take up the slack from Jack!lite. I think Daniel's different perspective is still part of his character but I get the feeling he's finally learning that some situations just can't be solved by talking -- especially when you're dealing with fanatics. I can see where you're coming from on this, though.



I disagree. Daniel had been on that planet in Icon for six weeks previous to the initial attack trying to figure out a way to prevent what happened. By the time it came to six weeks later and the attack on the bunker, all options were quite frankly exhausted. It's not like suddenly Daniel just decides spur of the moment to make it a fight. He knows what the situation was like beforehand(he gave that whole little briefing to Jack, Sam and Teal'c which I thought showed a pretty firm grasp of understanding on the situation), he knew what it was like right up until the time of the first attack, he had Jared's information since then. He's no dope and he generally has pretty good instincts, there isn't anything out of character about what he did.

Daniel's never been a pacifist. The man helped start a rebellion in the film because he knew that was what had to be done. He was also cool as a cucumber when he needed to be(talking with Ra for the first time after waking from the sarcophogus). He put a 36 hour ARMED guard on the Abydos gate when he had it unburied. He never showed any qualms about shooting a gun, he may not have had the training the military members of his team did, but he never had any qualms about using one if it came down to it.

What I liked about Daniel's use in Avatar was quite nicely summed up by someone on another board but as I can't copy her whole post :D I'll just say it balanced his complexity--he was both "lethal and sweet" at the same time and it seemed completely natural to him. To my mind really that's always been part of Daniel, it's one of the reasons I've always found him fascinating. He's just better able to balance both sides of himself now due to his experience and experiences and I'm glad they are allowing him that kind of growth. He was warm and supportive emotionally and confident and strong physically. That's Daniel as he should be, to me, after 8 years of doing this, 9 years since the first mission to Abydos.

jayeffaar
August 15th, 2004, 02:39 PM
Easily explained. Either Dr. Lee or one of his co-workers who helped him programmed the simulation has a Canadian or British background, hence "armoury " and "armour" rather than "armory" and "armor". :cool:

The real world reason of course, now that I've read the episode's guide page, is that the video game is being developed by an australian company. They'll probably catch that goof before the game goes gold.

thetron
August 15th, 2004, 05:43 PM
Just to offically and unoffical clear things up

I manage to email the creator, Ben Lozen from Perception. Into reguards the new stargate game being built in Australia.
Asking if the in-game footage shown in the episode. was pre-rendered or some machinma which is in-game animation using a game engine. Something like RedVsBlue.com
He mentioned
It uses all the same assets as the game in terms of character models, general models etc.
But to get it at the right res, it was prerendered."

ShadowMaat
August 15th, 2004, 05:49 PM
Oh yes. That clears things up perfectly. :P

Say it again in English, please, Carter.

Major Fischer
August 15th, 2004, 05:55 PM
I think a rough translation is, "was the game footage something taken from an already written game scenerio, or did they creat it seperately for the episode."

And the answer seems to be, "the detail needed for the episode meant that they had to spice it up, but it is based on many of the tools, programs, and models that were developed for the game."

But that's just a guess.

ShadowMaat
August 15th, 2004, 05:56 PM
Thanks kindly. :)

So like I said, it was basically a giant commercial for the video game. :P

Elwe Singollo
August 15th, 2004, 05:58 PM
I'm reading all your posts on the episode being game commercial and stuff, but i didn't see any comment if you thought it was a bad commerical or not haha, if you did Shadow, i missed it sorry :D

ShadowMaat
August 15th, 2004, 06:03 PM
My basic opinion is that while the individual elements of the ep had some good stuff, I didn't like the over-all effect.

As for the gaming portions, I despise first-person shooter games, so no, I didn't particularly care for that aspect of it. :P

thetron
August 15th, 2004, 06:25 PM
Oh yes. That clears things up perfectly. :P

Say it again in English, please, Carter.
Well Sir, Theres 2 forms of prerendering

One is using a pre-rendered game inengines for animation purposes. it's a more efficent way of creating large projects by using, establishied team to animate individual charactors. Called Machinma

Second way is to use a 3D animator program to model, plan and act the entire scene out. This more time comsuming that acting out using Machinma

The differents between them is using a 3d Animation is simply smoother and doesn't jolt or lag. As it Live Animation and rendered in real-time @ lower quailty
For 3D rendering keeps it smooth and high quality. 30 seconds of footage may take 10-30hrs to render

Wyrminarrd
August 15th, 2004, 06:31 PM
This was a good show and my only problem with it is that I got this massive star trek "holodeck breaks down" feeling from it. Right from the start I thought "if this where a star trek episode he would get trapped in there and nobody outside could unplugg him without killing him".

And I think your right in that season 1-6 Jack would have gone in and then the whole plotline would have been that Jack could somehow talk Teal´c into trully believing that he could defeat the Gould and then they could finally beat the system. That would have further built up their bondc and been much more of a character builder for Teal´c.

thetron
August 15th, 2004, 06:42 PM
This was a good show and my only problem with it is that I got this massive star trek "holodeck breaks down" feeling from it. Right from the start I thought "if this where a star trek episode he would get trapped in there and nobody outside could unplugg him without killing him".

And I think your right in that season 1-6 Jack would have gone in and then the whole plotline would have been that Jack could somehow talk Teal´c into trully believing that he could defeat the Gould and then they could finally beat the system. That would have further built up their bondc and been much more of a character builder for Teal´c.
That episodes already happen. Remember teal'c got caught in the stargate cause the other stargate was destoryed before the buffer could spilt him out. After the other stargate was destoryed

I was kind of hoping Jack to entering the game. They keep on dick teasing us. To when he's gonna start to pick up a weapon again and fire it

Livi2Jack
August 15th, 2004, 08:08 PM
>>>>I thought the SGC should have never considered using the chair if they couldn't turn it off from the outside without injuring the user.<<<<


Well one of the things I really appreciate about the writing for this show is that unlike Trek and worse sci fi, our heroes screw up and do so frequently and spectacularly. It keeps the realism since people of our level of knowledge are messing about with advanced equipment and DO NOT know everything about it. We have a high probablilty of overlooking something or just being in over our heads. THAT situation is what is real to me. Carter thought they had 2 fail safes. But something went wrong. That is normal. What is reckless is that they put a valuable member of the program in it first after the scientists.

greytop
August 15th, 2004, 08:22 PM
Jack's still ahead. <<g>> He died every time.

J.
I don't think he died the last time as Daniel and Teal'c finished the game. Unless, you're not counting that time, then, he did died every time.

Torley
August 15th, 2004, 10:10 PM
Haha... the pop culture references keep rolling. This reminded me of Window of Opportunity in some ways for obvious reasons, but it was enjoyable.

Hey... yeah -- you know, the in-game parts on that monitor looked pretty convincing like a real computer game. I'm reading more about how they did it -- thanks for posting details, thetron. REALLY cool that the base mechanics of the real game we'll play and what we saw on the show will actually be similar!

I found when the Kull soldier went to punch out Teal'c, that was SOOO funny and out-of-character (why punch when you can kill more efficiently?). But the ingame graphics were a blast to look at, especially the ingame Daniel, what little we saw of him. Ingame Teal'c had too skinny an arm though, I think. Chris Judge has YUGE biceps and that definitely wasn't accurate.

Most of the time when they do the VR Game on a sci-fi show, the graphics look totally sucky and unconvincing and unanalogous to the games we all know and play. That X-Files episode, for example, had a horrid depiction (spinning cowgirls and whatnot, ugh). This was one of the few times it really felt like it was a game and not just some mock-up like so many mangled computer interfaces done wrong. :P

Torley
August 15th, 2004, 10:17 PM
Yah, it kind of felt like a fast pace Dead Zone episode with much more visions :rolleyes:

I've never seen Dead Zone the series, but actually ya know, the camera ramping -- how it would suddenly scroll real fast and pan in behind Teal'c's head and then settle or something -- reminded me of another Dead show, Dead Like me... which uses these camera tricks a lot.

The new weapon with adaptive modulation that Teal'c fired seem to have rainbow bursts of energy coming out of it or something! That was colorful. I also noticed the subtle changes of lighting in the "gameworld", the way it was lit was eerily different.

Poor virtual Siler!

You know, what would be cool is if this scenario was ACTUALLY part of the game! Kind of a Kobayashi Maru for the here and now! :)


There were also the little things... how the items would subtlely move position in a room each time. I thought there was going to be a respawning joke too.

Nikkirose
August 16th, 2004, 01:16 PM
Awww my question didnt get answered :( Or maybe no one knows.... But incase no one saw it... Does anyone know when they will repeat Avatar??

Elwe Singollo
August 16th, 2004, 07:47 PM
I've never seen Dead Zone the series, but actually ya know, the camera ramping -- how it would suddenly scroll real fast and pan in behind Teal'c's head and then settle or something -- reminded me of another Dead show, Dead Like me... which uses these camera tricks a lot.
QUOTE]
O, yah! Thats also another good example :D And by the way, very good show :)

[QUOTE=Nikiirose]Awww my question didnt get answered :( Or maybe no one knows.... But incase no one saw it... Does anyone know when they will repeat Avatar??Well the only time i think they repeated Avatar was after SG:A and SG:1 both aired their first run episodes, you can check GW or Scifi's schedule though :D

NightGloom
August 16th, 2004, 08:39 PM
OK, watched it again since my life is sad and I taped it. For some reason, I still laugh hysterically when people die, especially the first time Jack died. I know, it's terrible, but it was really like when people "die" in video games! Except for Jack, that was slightly overdone. And then at the last scenario when Jack randomly wanders into the shot "You guys OK?"

Yeah, I know, I'm stupid for finding this stuff amusing.

ComicDiva
August 17th, 2004, 07:14 AM
SPOILERS (not a lot)
I






really liked this one!
but of course, I like anything where Michael Shanks wears short sleeve shirts. Did you see those arms? They remind me of Spike's (from Buffy) arms but 23% more manly. :)

We got a lot of pop culture! Like matrix, and doom. It's amazing that I never thought of the life SG1 must have outside the base. O'neil saw Matrix. I wonder what Daniel's favourite movie is. I can just see him busting a gut while watching "The Mummy". Or maybe ranting his head off, who knows.

Teal'c is absolutely great. In the begining I thought he smiled a little to much but then we see how he slowly gets really depressed and those lips express everything! And I so liked it when Daniel says : "We'll do this together"
Did anyone start singing : "Babe, I got you babe..." ?
And next week's episode is "To save Teal'c Daniel must cross a line"... well, don't get me wrong, I wuv em together... but didn't we already do this. The whole crossing a line thing.

ComicDiva
August 17th, 2004, 07:15 AM
SPOILERS (not a lot)
I






really liked this one!
but of course, I like anything where Michael Shanks wears short sleeve shirts. Did you see those arms? They remind me of Spike's (from Buffy) arms but 23% more manly. :)

We got a lot of pop culture! Like matrix, and doom. It's amazing that I never thought of the life SG1 must have outside the base. O'neil saw Matrix. I wonder what Daniel's favourite movie is. I can just see him busting a gut while watching "The Mummy". Or maybe ranting his head off, who knows.

Teal'c is absolutely great. In the begining I thought he smiled a little to much but then we see how he slowly gets really depressed and those lips express everything! And I so liked it when Daniel says : "We'll do this together"
Did anyone start singing : "Babe, I got you babe..." ?
And next week's episode is "To save Teal'c Daniel must cross a line"... well, don't get me wrong, I wuv em together... but didn't we already do this. The whole crossing a line thing.

Posherella
August 17th, 2004, 08:22 AM
I'm bad as I've only read half this thread so far so I apologize if I'm repeating others.

I really liked this one for Teal'C's character development! It wasn't the best episode I've seen and the constant alarm sirens in the background were really grating my nerves. But the part where Teal'C falls down and sits in the hall over and over and over again really goes to show how much Teal'C's changed since the beginning. I was watching The First Commandment the other day and Jack told Teal'C to smile and he just showed his teeth. Now Teal'C really knows what it's like to be happy and completely free.

It made me want to cry. Especially the part where Daniel comes into the game and Teal'C says, "It won't let me out." in a defeated voice.

I like the piece of information that Teal'C didn't believe 6 years ago that they'd ever beat the Goa'uld and the inference that today, he does think differently about the subject.

Regarding next week's episode...

I've been excited all season about Teal'C getting an off-base apartment. I just really hope that what ever happens during this Friday's episode doesn't ruin those plans completely.

I just really love the way Teal'C is developing. I think he's come the furthest of all SG-1 in terms of character.

Asgard Buddy
August 17th, 2004, 08:26 AM
It made me want to cry. Especially the part where Daniel comes into the game and Teal'C says, "It won't let me out." in a defeated voice.
I really liked that part as well. Not that I enjoy seeing Teal'c that way, but I enjoyed seeing him express his emotions a little more than he usually does. It was very emotional for me too :(

Elwe Singollo
August 17th, 2004, 10:48 AM
Although i didn't cry, or anything, it was a touching scene :o.

The Kender
August 17th, 2004, 10:13 PM
Just want to say that i liked this epp. Felt bad for Teal'c when he slid down the wall and gave up :( It was also and interesting little glimpse at what could happen if Anubis' warriors did invade the SGC.

Elwe Singollo
August 18th, 2004, 02:34 AM
I wonder if they did find a new armor of some sort to adapt to the weapons that can actually hurt them, that would be just bad, haha...

aschen
August 18th, 2004, 05:05 AM
I got bored of this ep. very quickly. I don't know why they bothered making it.

Major Fischer
August 18th, 2004, 05:59 AM
I got bored of this ep. very quickly. I don't know why they bothered making it.

That was about how I felt.... I got bored with the gun fighting really fast.

Tok'Ra Hostess
August 18th, 2004, 06:13 AM
Well, this was one for the 12-24 male demographic. :p
Still, Avatar was plenty enjoyable for this 50 something female. :)

I liked seeing more of "Seymore" Lee ;) , and he's starting to look like quite the hottie with that shadow on his face. Ummmmm.... Hot middle-aged geek.... :cool:

Loved the smug looks on the group of three who had actually played the game. I could just imagine them in the Doom-style setting having those wierd convos like in those fan films. :p

I appreciate how they referenced the scientists on (Gamekeeper planet) and the implication that there has been on-going exchanges with them.

Great to see Siler get more action. I knew they'd kill that guy one day. :D

My one quibble(and there's always at least one :rolleyes: ) was when, at the start, Teal'c insisted that the Kull were far more formidible than the game showed them to be. Bah! The game Kull was waay more deadly accurate than any we'd seen thus far in "real life". They should have made that first Kull clumsy - the type that any geek could've brought down, seeing as how it was geeks who programmed it. :D

Cool moment when all three of SG-1 said "I'll do it" together. :) It made sense that Daniel would be the one to go, and I expect a plethora of missing scene fanfic explaining how Daniel won the draw.

Daniel was great inside the game, though I fully expected the Armchair of rage guy from Conan O'Brian to show up in the hallway and get his comeuppance from Daniel. :D Oh, well....

All in all, a good and re-watchable ep. I liked. :)

MagnoliaAnaglypta
August 18th, 2004, 12:28 PM
Waitaminute... Sam should have been the one to go help him! If the chair can't read her mind, there's no risk of the game learning anything from her to make it more difficult!

Bah, why did I have to notice this? Curse my brilliant brain! :(

I'm afraid that actually makes no sense. In the original 'gamekeeper' neither Teal'c's nor Carter's minds could be read. This was made clear in the episode. Since now it is clear that Teal'c's mind CAN be, we have no reason to suppose that the original restriction on Carter's mind still exists either.

It seems to me that one of the other reasons they chose Daniel to go in, besides the whole, not wanting to give the chair the tactical experience of two military officers, was Daniel's *belief* that the Goa'uld COULD be defeated. Teal'c had been unable to get out of the game because the chair had found in his subconscious his underlying belief that the Goa'uld were unbeatable in the long run, and it had incorporated that belief into the scenarios to make them unwinnable. Daniel, on the other hand, brought hope and optimism into the game - it's what he does. So once he had entered the game, the chair assimilated those beliefs as well, and adjusted the scenarios so that it was possible to win.

keshou
August 19th, 2004, 07:07 AM
Well, this was one for the 12-24 male demographic. :p
Still, Avatar was plenty enjoyable for this 50 something female. :)
Plenty enjoyable for this 40 something female as well. Does that mean we're young at heart?


Daniel was great inside the game, though I fully expected the Armchair of rage guy from Conan O'Brian to show up in the hallway and get his comeuppance from Daniel. :D Oh, well....
LOL! That would have been great. They could have included that scene from the skit where Pierre gets shot in the hallway by the off-screen Daniel Jackson. Except this time we'd get to see Daniel do it. :p

DarkQuee1
August 19th, 2004, 05:43 PM
I'm afraid that actually makes no sense. In the original 'gamekeeper' neither Teal'c's nor Carter's minds could be read. This was made clear in the episode. Since now it is clear that Teal'c's mind CAN be, we have no reason to suppose that the original restriction on Carter's mind still exists either.

It seems to me that one of the other reasons they chose Daniel to go in, besides the whole, not wanting to give the chair the tactical experience of two military officers, was Daniel's *belief* that the Goa'uld COULD be defeated. Teal'c had been unable to get out of the game because the chair had found in his subconscious his underlying belief that the Goa'uld were unbeatable in the long run, and it had incorporated that belief into the scenarios to make them unwinnable. Daniel, on the other hand, brought hope and optimism into the game - it's what he does. So once he had entered the game, the chair assimilated those beliefs as well, and adjusted the scenarios so that it was possible to win.


First, we can explain the chair's ability to read Teal'c's mind by the fact that he no longer *has* a primtah--which was the problem the first time. Sam, OTOH, still *does* have the remnants of Jolinar in her system, and thus, the machine couldn't read her and, therefore, she couldn't hook into the game.

(One thing that this ep told us about Gamekeeper was that the Teal'c and Sam in those "dreams" were not real; they were constructs of the game, as Sam and Jack were in Avatar. If the machine could not hook into their minds and read them, then it couldn't bring them into the game for real.)

Second, as to optimism: I'm sorry, but there is no way that Daniel believes that the Goa'uld can be defeated more than Jack and Sam do. In fact, Daniel is only newly-come to the belief that the SGC is having an effect. Go back to "Meridian", in which Daniel basically said (this is not exact words): I couldn't save Sha're or Sarah and every time we defeat a Goa'uld, a new one takes his place. We aren't accomplishing anything and I'm leaving." Since his return, we've seen a change. OTOH, Jack always believed that the fight was worth fighting: Earth was still standing and still progressing, and that meant they were having an effect. (Daniel has not even been optimistic about other things: for example, in "Past and Present", we see that he gave up on saving Sha're long before she actually died.)

The ep made it very clear, when it explained why Jack couldn't go in, why Daniel was picked: he was the safest one to go. The least experienced fighter and the one with essentially no expertise in that area. Yes, he has improved to the point where he will hold up his end of a firefight, but he has no skills in weaponry, tactics, strategy or ops. The machine could not learn anything from him. Daniel was sent in because he couldn't make the situation worse by giving the machine information it didn't already have.

What saved them in the end was that SG-1, including its former CO, trusted each other enough to work together to take out the bomb and the Goa'uld, the last two threats. Once all of the threats were eliminated, the game ended.


J.

Chirp
August 20th, 2004, 03:44 AM
I would still like to buy one in a computer store near me.

Jonisa
August 23rd, 2004, 12:39 PM
Second, as to optimism: I'm sorry, but there is no way that Daniel believes that the Goa'uld can be defeated more than Jack and Sam do. In fact, Daniel is only newly-come to the belief that the SGC is having an effect. Go back to "Meridian", in which Daniel basically said (this is not exact words): I couldn't save Sha're or Sarah and every time we defeat a Goa'uld, a new one takes his place. We aren't accomplishing anything and I'm leaving." Since his return, we've seen a change. OTOH, Jack always believed that the fight was worth fighting: Earth was still standing and still progressing, and that meant they were having an effect. (Daniel has not even been optimistic about other things: for example, in "Past and Present", we see that he gave up on saving Sha're long before she actually died.)


I'm going to have to...partially...disagree with you on this. I do agree that before his ascension, Daniel wasn't all that optimistic about the fight against the Goa'uld. However, after thinking it over, all of his pessimism was related to his failings. In 'Meridian' we see the best example of how useless he felt his contribution was, especially in regards to Sarah and Sha're. He was extremely hard on himself in that episode, IMO.

However, when it comes to other people, Daniel doesn't act the same way. He tends to have more hope and faith in other people than himself, and he's been that way since the beginning. (The quote in his journal about Jack from 'Fire and Water' comes to mind, about saving Sha're and Skaara..."If anyone can do it, Jack can.") He also excels at lifting others up, and we've seen that all through the seasons, and a lot this season, with the Russian fellow in 'Lockdown', Leda in 'Icon', and finally Teal'c in 'Avatar'.

Was that why he was sent in? No, the episode made it clear he was sent in because he had the least tactical knowledge of the three. Did the game pick this up from him and was it one of many contributing factors that helped them win? I like to think so. :)

greytop
August 25th, 2004, 07:56 PM
I don't know if this has been mention or not. Has DJ been working out or is it his black t-shirt that makes his muscles look bigger?

Jolinarsam
August 26th, 2004, 02:15 PM
I thought his hair looked funny. Like he forgot to comb it or something.

I didn't think the CG Daniel looked very much like him at all. The hair looked more like it did in the first two seasons than it does now. It was parted in the middle and longer on top.

Which makes me kind of scared that they are going to use the same look for him in the actual video game. :S

On a side note, CG Sam looked pretty good from what we saw of her.

michelleb
September 14th, 2004, 02:54 AM
oh, that was so good! i so enjoyed that. i felt so sorry for tealc when he finally gave up (brilliant acting by CJ, btw). i loved all the different scenarios, even if daniel did tend to get shot a lot (again? what's with shooting daniel this season?). and what a fantastic reservoir dogs moment, with them all pointing their guns at each other!! and siler as a gou'ald...brilliant, just brilliant.

and teal'c seems to have rather a shippy view of jack and sam...jack moving in between sam and teal'c's gun (action jack is back!! wonderful!) more action jack!), various little looks...

either way, i don't care if this is an advert for the game, it was FANTSATIC. i really enjoyed it.

LMichelle
October 23rd, 2004, 07:29 AM
Was it me or did the Anubis drones look a bit like the characters from Halo?

I loved the flashing back and forth between the game and reality. Very cool effects. Virtual Sam and Virtual Daniel looked really good. We never did see Virtual Teal'c, though.

It seems many eps are focused on how we can get CJ in the tightest shirts possible. However, we did get some good Daniel arm porn, so I'm happy. :)

Lisa Michelle

Major Clanger
November 9th, 2004, 01:06 PM
Sorry, absolutely no time to read the thread.
But I have to say... nice ep. I loved that they finally finally showed that they really do study and follow up on the tech they encounter. (when was Gamekeeper? S3? S2?)

At first I thought "oh no" but as it went on I really liked the ep. Good reason given for not using Jack in there with Teal'c, so that was ok.

The only thing that bugged me was right at the end when Daniel and Teal'c were trying to decide who the goa'uld was. They knew it was a game, and they should have followed their own advice (and possibly SG procedure) from... ah, which ep? The one when the recruits to the SG programme were put through their paces in S5...

Anyhooo... IMO Daniel and Teal'c should have just shot Jack and Sam, and made sure that Siler was really dead too.

But apart from that, a massive thumbs up.

Oh and ... another Bicep Ep. Yippeee!

Lord Zedd
November 9th, 2004, 01:10 PM
Yeah that was a great episode.You saw some screenshots that is going to be in a game.Teal'c was just getting mad he shot Daniel with absolutly no reason.you saw Teal'c was kinda giving up

Lord Zedd
November 9th, 2004, 01:13 PM
oh, that was so good! i so enjoyed that. i felt so sorry for tealc when he finally gave up (brilliant acting by CJ, btw). i loved all the different scenarios, even if daniel did tend to get shot a lot (again? what's with shooting daniel this season?). and what a fantastic reservoir dogs moment, with them all pointing their guns at each other!! and siler as a gou'ald...brilliant, just brilliant.

and teal'c seems to have rather a shippy view of jack and sam...jack moving in between sam and teal'c's gun (action jack is back!! wonderful!) more action jack!), various little looks...

either way, i don't care if this is an advert for the game, it was FANTSATIC. i really enjoyed it.
yeah Jack Jack Jack.Poor Tea'lc And who knew Siler was a Goa'uld???

Crazedwraith
November 9th, 2004, 01:13 PM
Excellant Episode. Nice insight in to Teal'c. Nice evoloution of the gamekeeper concept. Nice aplication of the subconcious beliefs agaisnt the conscious desire (hey I sound quite freudian only with more typos)

I feel its quite ironic that the last game Teal'c could have just let it be Carter would have stopped the generator and all would be fine. (oh and clanger they couldn't just shoot them all becuase neither T nor Dan could deactive the overload)

Intrestingly though I had zilcho emotionally reaction to any time a main character was killed the only time it really tugged at the heartstrings was when T collasped exhusted.


I thought they slightly damged that though when they said it was becuase teal'c's body was exhusted and it was carrying through to the sim. It was more effective when you thought the tireless warrior with out peer, the Mighty Shol'va had just had enough and couldn't continue.

Crazedwraith
November 9th, 2004, 01:18 PM
Yeah that was a great episode.You saw some screenshots that is going to be in a game.Teal'c was just getting mad he shot Daniel with absolutly no reason.you saw Teal'c was kinda giving up
Not no reason he thought he was a goa'uld.

Watters87
November 9th, 2004, 01:24 PM
Very good episode and a nice insight on Teal'c's thoughts at the time of season 2. Good to see that Jack came up with the solution instead of Sam or Daniel. Siler being a Goa'uld was cool. :cool:

MC, Gamekeeper was season 2 and it is good that they revisit past storylines instead of just forgetting that it ever existed.

Lord Zedd
November 9th, 2004, 02:10 PM
Not no reason he thought he was a goa'uld.
yeah but Daniel tried to say something that he joined Teal'c to help him.Now Daniel actuallly had to zat Teal'c and get his gun and made him listen

Matt G
November 9th, 2004, 02:22 PM
Well this was a pretty smooth op.

The VR graphics were pretty cool.

One thing though, I interpreted Teal'c sitting down as 'taking a few loops off' a la Jack in Window of Oppitunity to recharge his batteries.

Anubis
November 9th, 2004, 11:04 PM
I actually really enjoyed this episode, I think it was great. Some great highlights.


I liked how when Teal'c entered the game that Teal'c was so confident that he thought he would require no help, thankfull Daniel stepped in, others he would have been trapped.

Teal'c giving up was quite a nice touch too, showing that he really can't be bothered and he know he can't win against the game.

Overall, I really enjoyed the episode and thought it was great. :)

CultTVGirl
November 10th, 2004, 07:48 AM
However, we did get some good Daniel arm porn, so I'm happy.

Gotta agree with you there! :D

And just how funny was it when Daniel stepped into the game to help Teal'c and Teal'c shot him? Poor Daniel!

Felt really sorry for Teal'c in this one though. I bet he won't volunteer for anything like that again!

Anubis
November 10th, 2004, 09:52 AM
Felt really sorry for Teal'c in this one though. I bet he won't volunteer for anything like that again!



I think he would, perhaps just ensuring that he is able to escape the game for certain. :)

Madeleine
November 10th, 2004, 10:52 AM
I really liked this one. Fun and teamy.

When Dr Lee said that the chair wouldn't allow anyone to disconnect it from the outside Mr W and I exchanged One Of Those Looks. You know, the kind that you used to exchange whenever the preamble of ST:V or ST:TNG indicated that it was going to be a Holodeck ep - read Holodeck Goes Horribly Wrong ep.

Luclkily it was a well-scripted scene, and Dr Lee is pretty great. He's been allowed to develop nicely for a while now. (Although it does sometimes stretch credibility that he's an expert in everything vaguely scientific. So I've decided he must be Head Of Research, having a background in Xenoengineering; that way whenever he seems to be doing stuff beyond his ken it's probably that he's reporting as an administrative supervisor or something. He probably wasn't actually working on that Plant last week, it must have been just someone else's project that he was nominally in charge of.)

Anyway, the story was pretty basic, but well executed.

Each of SG-1 were well served. Teal'c was great. He brought a lot of feeling to the scenes where he just gave up, but more impressive still was how when he had gone back to participating in the game (when Daniel was first put in) Teal'c seemed totally different to how he had been at first. He really seemed to be just going through the motions, and not very Teal'c-like at all.

Sam's comment that maybe Teal'c didn't believe the Goa'uld could be defeated made me unhappy at the time; I really don't want the show to go that route with Teal'c. But the scenario didn't keep getting harder after Daniel got in - a fourth SS or a second goa'uld never showed up - so instead it's more the case that Teal'c doesn't believe that he can defeat the goa'uld *alone*.

Daniel and Sam had nice roles too. And if this ep had been in s4 I'd never have noticed it as Jack-lite. He was in enough of the scenes in the lab that it felt like he was there in the room with Teal'c, Lee & co most of the time. And his appearances in the Game each had impact. Definitely well written in that respect.

The solution - Daniel gets pregognition courtest of a faster version of the programme on top of the standard feed - was the nice simple sort of solution that I like, although it took a heck of a lot of technobabble to get there. I'll take it gladly though, seeing as I was worried that the solution itself would be technobabbly, like resetting the system or tweaking subroutines.

So I'm five eps into the season, and I've enjoyed all five eps lots. That's pretty good going for a show that's eight years old.

Terok
November 10th, 2004, 11:39 AM
I really liked this ep. Didn't think we'd see Teal'c just giving up, and even in his state of mind with knowing he couldn't win, he got back up and still tried. Maybe that parallels the feeling given that Teal'c thinks the fight against the Goa'uld can't be won, yet he still tries and does his best with SG-1 against them. Again nice acting from CJ.

Would have thought Jack would be the one to go into the game, though it makes sense that Daniel did with having less tactical experience.

Crazedwraith
November 10th, 2004, 12:49 PM
Just a couple of niggling details i wanna clear up.

1) The Doctor. Have we seen this actor before? He looks oh so familiar,
2) Are we in the supposed Jack-lite portion of the season yet? Cos i can't tell.

Answers on a postcard please. (j/k reply in THIS thread :D)

.:Lemon:.
November 12th, 2004, 07:20 PM
Just a couple of niggling details i wanna clear up.

1) The Doctor. Have we seen this actor before? He looks oh so familiar,
2) Are we in the supposed Jack-lite portion of the season yet? Cos i can't tell.

1) Well he's been in a load of Stargate episodes if thats what you mean :p If you mean other shows or movies then I have no idea! I think he was possibly in the X-Files....not sure
2) If we are in the Jack-lite portion of the season then I think they've handled it quite well. Its hard to tell

Anyways, I quite liked this episode. I had a feeling it would really suck, but I was surprised. Not an all-time-great episode, but still pretty reasonable.

Elite Anubis Guard
November 14th, 2004, 01:55 AM
well nice to see a sequal to the game keeper(right title?)

anyway i enjoyed it, but it did upset me slightly to see teal'c give up. Poor guy.

It was also nice to see alot of action and I can just imagine what the games to be like now!

jantreeuk1
November 14th, 2004, 05:49 AM
Just a couple of niggling details i wanna clear up.

1) The Doctor. Have we seen this actor before? He looks oh so familiar,
2) Are we in the supposed Jack-lite portion of the season yet? Cos i can't tell.

Answers on a postcard please. (j/k reply in THIS thread :D)

The doctor was Andrew Airlie also seen as Kalan in Learning Curve season 3.

WraithWarrior
November 15th, 2004, 06:15 AM
Saw this last tuesday and loved it. The seasons of SG-1 are getting better if anything, which is why it is a shame for them to finish after this season (if they do). Liked how the game learned from Teal'c and kept him in the game causing Daniel to go in to help him. Thought it was funny how he shot Daniel the first time and Daniel had to use the Zat gun to stop him

Elite Anubis Guard
November 15th, 2004, 08:29 AM
i liked the taste of the new game we got aswell. not bad, not bad at all!

Crazedwraith
November 15th, 2004, 09:44 AM
The doctor was Andrew Airlie also seen as Kalan in Learning Curve season 3.
Thanx. I did figure it out after seeing it again on Sat though...

Nathan
January 4th, 2005, 06:35 PM
Never mind

Stricken
May 25th, 2005, 04:48 AM
Two Words - Loved it

Simple yet intuative

Qtyled
August 22nd, 2005, 05:36 AM
I posted this on the Affinity thread :o :


OK, I don't really have time at the moment to read everyone's posts but from what I see on this page people seemed to dislike this episode.

I disagree. This was one of the best Stargates I've seen in a long time. Now that may be because Im an action junkie and this episode has heaps of action, but there are some good emotional scenes in it, such as when Teal'c brakes down. It shows us a side to his character that we've never seen before.

I also liked it how it was set up so that only way the game could be beaten would be for Teal'c to truely believe that the Goaul'd could be beaten. (Is that right? That's how I saw it anyway...)

One question... Especially the fruit throwing hitting bad guy part :S :D I don't remember Teal'c using fruit as an anti super-soldier weapon.


Why did TPTB have to make episodes starting with A straight after one another! :o :p

SilverRider
August 22nd, 2005, 06:09 PM
Rofl! Q!.

Thou I posted here. oh well. I Enjoyed it. It gave a good sneak peek at the game that's to come out :D :D Oh i did enjoy the 3-D Daniel, cute nod.

Metarock Sam
August 23rd, 2005, 11:11 AM
This ep rules (i may have already said that but oh well ) It not only showed how great Teal'c is and how strong his will is but also it was quite emotional. Plus the Graphics were amazing and it was funny when Teal'c Shot Daniel !!!!

SeaBee
February 15th, 2006, 05:20 PM
I recently watched this episode on a rerun, and I have now decided that this was one of the best episodes of the season.

Nuff said.

captain jake
May 5th, 2006, 09:13 PM
I agree it was a great oppurtunity for teal'c to show his pride.

harsiesis child
June 19th, 2006, 01:01 PM
very boring episode.... :( and virtual reality was already explored in stargate. The beginning of season 8 is not good... :(

Commander Ivanova
June 21st, 2006, 01:56 AM
It was ok. I'm not a gamer so it put me off a bit.

generaloneill
June 21st, 2006, 02:44 AM
loved this episode i'm a big fan of games so i thought it was great that this episode revolved around games and the references to doom and def jam vendetta made it all the more better for me. :tealc:

captain jake
June 25th, 2006, 04:39 AM
very boring episode.... :( and virtual reality was already explored in stargate. The beginning of season 8 is not good... :(


It was ok. I'm not a gamer so it put me off a bit.

Well I have to disagree with both of you on this one. I am not a gamer in any sense of the word except for a couple computer games. However the story was still interesting to me the way he was involved in something only daniel could help him out of was awesome.

You say virtual reality was already explored well we can explore it again. thats like you saying we have already saved a race of people before we shouldnt ever do it again.

Dani347
June 25th, 2006, 12:48 PM
To me, Avatar was never really about a virtual reality game. That was just the tool they used to tell the story. To me, it was about finding out that Teal'c had been fighting the Goa'uld all that time, with no hope that they would win. It was shocking and really got into his mind. Season 9 spoiler:Which is why I felt that him telling Mitchell that he had no doubt the Goa'uld would be defeated was ignoring canon And, it was about Daniel suggesting that they work together in the game (and reminding him that they were in it together in real life).

Exiled Master
June 26th, 2006, 05:51 AM
They had an opportunity for a lot of gamer stuff but they missed it. Like writing 'I pwn n00bs' on the floor or something.

captain jake
June 26th, 2006, 07:00 AM
To me, Avatar was never really about a virtual reality game. That was just the tool they used to tell the story. To me, it was about finding out that Teal'c had been fighting the Goa'uld all that time, with no hope that they would win. It was shocking and really got into his mind. Season 9 spoiler:Which is why I felt that him telling Mitchell that he had no doubt the Goa'uld would be defeated was ignoring canon And, it was about Daniel suggesting that they work together in the game (and reminding him that they were in it together in real life).

Wow hahaha dani you are so funny "ignoring cannon". Had not alot of things changed between the time avatar aired and season 9? He never would have suspected that the replicators would have come and basically defeated there enemy for them. would he have?

Dani347
June 26th, 2006, 10:56 AM
Wow hahaha dani you are so funny "ignoring cannon". Had not alot of things changed between the time avatar aired and season 9? He never would have suspected that the replicators would have come and basically defeated there enemy for them. would he have?


Yeah, I'll have them rolling in the aisles when I do my stand up act. I don't see how knowing the replicators would come in has anything whatsoever to do with my comment that Avatar revealed that Teal'c did not believe that we would win the fight against the Goa'uld and then in season 9 saying that he always knew that they would be defeated. Exactly where do the replicators or his thoughts about the replicators come into that equation? He didn't say that later on he felt confident because of the replicators. He said he never had any doubts. Season 9 he told Mitchell that he knew all along that the Goa'uld would lose. This is ignoring canon because Avatar cleary shows that he did not know all along. He had doubts. This is canon. Nothing changes the fact that those doubts were there. He may gradually have lost those doubts, but his comment to Mitchell says they never existed in the first place. Not true. Again, nothing to do with the replicators.

luthienberen
June 26th, 2006, 02:24 PM
very boring episode.... :( and virtual reality was already explored in stargate. The beginning of season 8 is not good... :(

I have to agree - very boring. Nothing about the ep screamed 'interesting' to me.

captain jake
June 26th, 2006, 05:19 PM
Yeah, I'll have them rolling in the aisles when I do my stand up act. I don't see how knowing the replicators would come in has anything whatsoever to do with my comment that Avatar revealed that Teal'c did not believe that we would win the fight against the Goa'uld and then in season 9 saying that he always knew that they would be defeated. Exactly where do the replicators or his thoughts about the replicators come into that equation? He didn't say that later on he felt confident because of the replicators. He said he never had any doubts. Season 9 he told Mitchell that he knew all along that the Goa'uld would lose. This is ignoring canon because Avatar cleary shows that he did not know all along. He had doubts. This is canon. Nothing changes the fact that those doubts were there. He may gradually have lost those doubts, but his comment to Mitchell says they never existed in the first place. Not true. Again, nothing to do with the replicators.


It had to do with it because although it was true that in this episode he did not believe the gou'ald would ever be defeated his oppinion changed. How do you think he ever got out of the game? Daniel convinced him that the gou'ald could be defeated. That is not the only thing that changed his mind the REPLICATORS changed his mind because they dwindled the strength of the gou'ald making him realize that the gou'ald were weak and they COULD be defeated. Which is why teal'c said in season 9 what he did. When you say you do not see what it had to do with your comment "whatsoever" only showed your unwillingness to read through my post and truly understand it.

PG15
June 26th, 2006, 05:38 PM
Ok, here's how it goes:

Season 9: Teal'c says he's never doubted the defeat of the Goa'uld.

Season 8: Teal'c doubted the defeat of the Goa'uld.

See the contradiction? It doesn't matter what made him "un-doubt" the defeat of the Goa'uld, it's the fact that for a period of time he had doubt.

Dani347
June 26th, 2006, 05:59 PM
Thank you, PG15. I would have written a long post trying to explain what I meant and it still wouldn't be read or understood.


When you say you do not see what it had to do with your comment "whatsoever" only showed your unwillingness to read through my post and truly understand it.

Yep, I'm unwilling to read posts that I'm responding to. I find it's so much bother. Much easier to randomly click on a post and respond without knowing what I'm responding to.

That last bit was sarcasm, btw.

Sheppard
July 15th, 2006, 10:49 PM
this was a great episode i was hoping that they were going to use those graphics for the stargate the alliance but they cancelled that game so that made me really annoyed:tealc:

MasterPower
September 25th, 2006, 04:50 PM
I recently got season 8 on DVD, and it had been a while since I had watched episodes from that season. I knew I had liked Avatar, but when I watched it again I thought that it was THE BEST EPISODE EVER!

Avatar had great action and a great story line. All in all, I give it two thumbs up, 5 stars, and ten out of ten.

Slade 155
February 14th, 2007, 03:54 AM
I saw a little preview thing during the ep before this one.. Teal'c gets stuck in a video game? Laaaame..

But it actually turned out quite nice. The video game parts still kinda threw me off (bad graphics, "armor 100%", that sorta thing) but after the start it got better when I realised he wasn't getting out any time soon. The suspense was great because didn't think like "Well, I'm sure they'll get out of this one way or another". I mean I did think that, but I felt less confident about it. That that's good. Also the action was pretty nice. I liked thye part where teal'c hides behind a table (giant man trying to fit into a very small space..) and the supersoldier walks by, sees teal'c crouching next to him- byebye. So yeah, good episode once again.

Beckmen
February 23rd, 2007, 02:20 AM
I am pretty sure that Chloe (from Avenger 2.0) is in this episode. Probably not Jocelyne Loewen who played her in the first episode, but a decent look-alike. Check out 4:56 on the DVD. In the background. There are some other shots of her throughout the episode, where you can see her face and it's not Chloe, but it still looks a lot like her in certain shots.

I thought that was a nice little touch, even if it might have been unintentional.

lunapasa
March 12th, 2007, 12:19 PM
:lol: I really liked the part where O'Neill suggested plugging in a joystick to help :tealc: .

Two_L's
August 5th, 2007, 06:49 AM
-Liked the Dr. He made his part memerable for me, especially with that *Pulp Fiction* moment. Jack "I don't want to see that again"

When the Dr. jabbed the needle into Teal'c's chest and said something along the lines of, "I won't be able to do that again" and Jack replied, "I don't wanna see that again", I couldn't stop laughing cause I was thinking the same thing. :lol:


I loved the standoff within the team at the end. That's something we've never seen before and it was a great moment for the whole series. I was almost sure that O'Neill was the Goa'uld, but the truth was a great twist. Siler being a Goa'uld...that should happen more often. :D

The 'mexican stand-off' was an awesome scene. I couldn't decide if it was O'Neill or Carter and it was quite the surprise when it really was Siler who turned out to be the goa'uld. Siler played his part well. ;)



The Matrix line and the "It's what we do..." line. :D I know some people think the "what we do" line is hokey, but I love it. So there. :p

Me too. Loved it in Wormhole X-Treme and I still find it amusing now. :p

This was a great team episode, despite it seemingly focused on Teal'c. The graphics for the game were really nice and I felt sorry for T when he stayed slumped against the wall :(. It's an ep I could definately watch again. Oh and Dr Lee plays off Sg-1 really well. :D

Cascade
August 28th, 2007, 04:05 AM
I loved this episode! :D It was a lot of fun, and quite interesting.

Seeing the virtual reality, simulation type thing really makes me wish the video game had gone ahead afterall. *Yearns to play a SG-1 video game*! :)

madaboutdanny
August 30th, 2007, 05:12 PM
Great ep, especially for the Teal'c/Daniel moment.

Sp!der
June 13th, 2008, 06:31 AM
its one of my favorite eps in this season, love teal'c and later danis involvment in the game. just great. :tealc::daniel:

morjana
August 5th, 2008, 10:40 PM
SG1 - The Media Pundit: Commentary on Season 8's 'Avatar':

From The Media Pundit (http://www.mediapundit.net/2008/08/its-not-possible.html):

(Please follow the link for the complete article)

It's not possible

August 5, 2008 in Feature, Television

**snippage**

...It's easy to dismiss shows like SG-1 and Stargate Atlantis as sci-fi light, drama-light, comedy-light, or action-light as they tend to live somewhere in the middle. Most episodes feature a little bit of everything, hence the "-light" suffix where it's not meant as an insult, but a literal description of a light hearted show that generally doesn't take risks yet still manages to do a lot of good things...

Avatar came together for me a lot sooner than Changeling did. It was clear for the audience once it was said that the game wouldn't let Teal'c out because it knew him too well, it knew that deep down inside, he didn't think they could ever beat the Goa'uld, so it kept adapting the game giving him unwinnable scenarios until it began threatening his physical health.

I suppose that's as good of a setup as any if you don't really think about that really says. Dig a little deeper, as was clearly done here, and what you've got is the kind of depth you don't normally see on Stargate -- and that may very well be a debatable statement if anyone wishes to point out something I've missed -- but since the producers went down this road, I feel I've got to point out a few things here.

First being that they really got it in this episode. It threw into question a basic premise of the series as we knew it, that the steadfast warrior who never gives up may have believed he was fighting a losing battle all along, but he fought on anyway. That alone says enough that Avatar deserved an award for a single instance of outstanding drama, the kind they typically reserve for "real drama" shows as opposed to sci-fi. Well, I've got news, you give credit to the material where it is, and that was as good of an example of exploring a complex idea, almost a contradiction if you will, without getting choking on your own brilliance.

To hell with that, you don't get much deeper than this. It's been done before on series like The West Wing, and you've got to hand it to Aaron Sorkin for doing it damn near every single week, but most shows never know what it is to speak at that level to our humanity. I'm not sure Stargate really went there again, but for this episode they knocked it out of the park. The ending could have featured some sort of self-analyzing solution, a kind of "I can't fight my way out of this game, I have to think and understand my way out." That's perfectly acceptable and passable, but they didn't take the easy out which is certainly to their credit, which brings me to my second point.

What better way to build on what was written in Changeling than to not just show us a person who has the courage to fight to the end whilst believing the end is inevitable no matter what they do, than to reinforce what Teal'c had already learned before: alone we can be great people, but only together can we accomplish great things. By the time last minute or so rolled, I think the lesson was well learned not just by the characters, but by the audience as well. It's practically a cliche to say "together we fall", but it's a whole other thing to actually show it; to show the characters learning it for themselves.

**snippage**

Damn, I miss that show.

L E E
August 17th, 2008, 01:27 AM
I thought this was the best Teal'c episode. I liked that he learned a lesson here about over confidence.

Crazedwraith
January 12th, 2009, 03:29 PM
Recently Rewatched this. Liked it just as much as the first time. I loved the little looks by virtual Sam and Daniel in the medbay. I was also amused that Harriman's voice seems to do automated announcements like The Star Trek computer: Harriman was supposed to be dead in the simulation and yet his computerised voice was still making self destruct announcements.

The Teal'c collapsing didn't tug on my heartstrings as much this time through; but his conversation with Daniel did. "It's just not possible, Daniel Jackson!" Haven't we all felt like that about a video game at times? :D I know I have.

Hornet
April 10th, 2009, 09:27 AM
Not bad at all

Wish they made a Stargate video game, would have been a great first person shooter game.

vzzzzzbx
June 24th, 2009, 07:31 PM
Exactly what I was thinking after re-watching this episode again just now, it's a shame the SG-1 game never actually appeared.

Ulkesh47
June 25th, 2009, 03:39 PM
Not bad at all

Wish they made a Stargate video game, would have been a great first person shooter game.

Exactly what I was thinking after re-watching this episode again just now, it's a shame the SG-1 game never actually appeared.
Must... wield... P90! :jack_new_anime25:

rushy
March 25th, 2010, 06:12 AM
When Tealc tried to escape using the elevator and then was back in the game=NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

rushy
March 25th, 2010, 06:13 AM
That game should be called "Stargate:Impossible".

mrscopterdoc
March 29th, 2010, 07:40 PM
I think this is one of the best Teal'c episodes.

asdf1239
April 11th, 2010, 02:25 AM
the situation seemed kind of contrived to me tbh. theyre stupid for not putting in any fail safes or emergency release things

the standoff scene near the end was good

asdf1239
April 11th, 2010, 02:48 AM
the rainbow gun was awesome and its a profound shame that they never used it again in the show. i do not recall seeing any weapon as visually and audibly cool as the rainbow gun. the rainbow gun deserved many more uses outside of the simulation maybe not as an anti-kull device after that arc wrapped up but perhaps as some kind of anti-prior gun. or something. it was fantastic

rushy
April 26th, 2010, 07:18 AM
What rainbow gun? I never saw some stupid rainbow gun. Do you mean that colorful anti-kull weapon?

asdf1239
May 2nd, 2010, 04:39 PM
Do you mean that colorful anti-kull weapon?
yes the colorful anti-kull weapon, what the hell else would i be talking about? do you recall any other weapon in the series that had a multicolored discharge?

rushy
July 3rd, 2010, 10:13 AM
SG1's best ep

SnowWhite
August 9th, 2010, 02:03 PM
I've just watched this ep during a boring time on a train, and was really surprised in a nice way!
I haven't seen mutch of S8 yet, but I'm not its biggest fan for different reasonst. But this ep was really cool. It also rad some elements of the older seasons. Like the Gamekeeper-Chairs and the team interaction in the end.
Best part: When all remaining SG-1 members volunteer to risk their lives for Teal'c at the same time :)

maneth
November 5th, 2010, 11:50 AM
Very claustrophobic. Poor Teal'c. Loved the team interaction though.

Ripley2012
June 28th, 2011, 08:51 PM
For some reason, I had missed this episode entirely! This was an awesome episode, as the franchise is now dead...how awesome to not have seen an SG1 episode!!!

Teal'Cs roll in this was awesome. It was all about the T man! This was great!!!

garhkal
July 1st, 2011, 11:34 PM
IT would have been interesting to see how they might have used it if it had worked..

Nindif
March 6th, 2012, 07:47 PM
The acting from the background scientists was just cringe worthy it was so bad.


the situation seemed kind of contrived to me tbh. theyre stupid for not putting in any fail safes or emergency release things
This.

The episode just seemed inconsequential to me, we didn't gain anything new, we didn't lose anything. The jeopardy Tealc was in seemed hyperbolic because we new it wasn't real and Carter was would eventually think of something.

Its not a bad ep, its OK as a standalone story, I guess at this stage any Earth-based eps need to have a strong link to the overarching plot to maintain my enthusiasm, otherwise they just seem like filler. Something like 'Space Race' would have been nice; lighthearted and fun set in space or on another planet.

mathpiglet
March 8th, 2012, 03:35 PM
My least-favourite episode of all time.

NowIWillDestroyAbydos
March 8th, 2012, 03:50 PM
Another average, best one since New Order.

Not much else to say. Still wish the franchise had a proper video game (you know, one from a company that doesn't shut it down in less than a year).

Tomorrow, Teal'c has a new home (off the base).

Krisz
March 8th, 2012, 04:29 PM
I suppose this one was made to try and encourage the creation of a Stargate computer game. It's annoying to watch for the reason that it just serves to remind us of a game that never was. It's funny to see how computer graphics date!

This episode was fun for the fact that it made interesting use of the alien virtual reality technology from the Gatekeeper's planet. Good to see that some technology has been shared by an advanced alien civilisation and brought back to Earth and to see it being utilised by the SGC.

Poor Teal'c, caught out by his own formidable tactical skills and deep down belief that the Goa'uld could never realistically be defeated.

Lieutenant Sparrow
March 9th, 2012, 02:32 AM
I really like this ep. It's so fun to watch imo. Seeing Teal'c try tactic after tactic to only be thwarted every time. Eventually giving up. Most people would have given up much sooner.

I laughed when Daniel was trying to convince Teal'c that he was real but Teal'c still shot him anyway haha.

Love the way Jack always comes up with solutions without meaning to.

Jae'a
March 12th, 2012, 11:41 AM
My LiveJournal post (http://jo-r-lee.livejournal.com/42558.html)

So does "Threat level Foxtrot Alpha 6" mean that there's sweet FA you can do about the current threat and your 6 is toast? :P

Matt G
March 15th, 2012, 02:17 PM
Another ep of SG1...

1. Teal'c seemed very cocky from the start but then again the first session was a cinch!

2. Also second guessing anyone's subconscious including your own is always a pain in the mik'tah!

3. He also seems to have been fairly humanised.

4. :jack: "I don't want to see that again" Nice...

5. "It's what we do". Yep.

Interesting ep.

jelgate
March 16th, 2012, 05:20 PM
Doctor: I can't do that again
Jack: I don't want to see that again.

Best line of the whole episode. Besides that the episode is quite boring. Its too repetive to see Teal'c do the same thing over and over because of the game restarting. I suppose the arguement could be made that they are slightly different but its gets boring and repetive seeing Teal'c die over and over And the characterization of Teal'c seems off first in his arrogance and then how he starts to quit. I just don't really buy it.

Darian
July 3rd, 2012, 12:11 AM
Now I would pay to play that game LOL

Anoobis
January 6th, 2013, 04:20 PM
They seem to have really 3D-rendered some parts of this game. I really wonder why there has never been an SG-1 game for PC ... look at the many Star Trek games, why no Stargate game? :( I love Star Trek, and I love most of their games, but hey ... an MMO for Stargate, that would be perfect. :)

This episode was a great one, and one of the last ever Gould infiltrator foothold scenes ever seen in SG-1.

Seaboe Muffinchucker
January 7th, 2013, 07:57 AM
IIRC, they were preparing a game and took footage from it for the show. I have no idea why the game did not appear/ succeed. Not that I would, since shoot-em-up games have no appeal to me.

Seaboe

Anoobis
January 10th, 2013, 02:56 PM
No matter if shoot-em-up, ego-shooter or jump-and-run or MMO ... I'd just luv to play any SG game. :)

Girlbot
January 10th, 2013, 03:55 PM
I really liked this ep. the concept was great, and I'm sure one day you gamers will all get stuck in some kind of simulation based on this concept.

Cluas
February 10th, 2013, 02:27 AM
One of the best episodes ever... Gotta love that Groundhog-Day- feeling, it sure works for me
:sam59:

garhkal
February 10th, 2013, 01:53 PM
Well,, RL is full of stories of gamers getting so engrosed in playing they died cause of lack of food, water etc..

Baron Of Hell
July 21st, 2013, 11:57 AM
I liked the episode. More Tealc is always good for me. I love the part when he just gives up and stops playing. I also liked the return of the gamekeeper chair. I'm glade they thought to use the tech from that episode.

myowndrownedworld
October 1st, 2013, 11:39 PM
Brilliant episode. I was hooked. Deffo one of my fav episodes based on my first watch.

Anja
October 9th, 2015, 11:41 AM
Not my ep, sorry. Great Teal'c but I thought it was boring. I don't like computer games neither
in a film nor in real life.
The idea of a game of that kind is creepy for me - more than creepy.