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GateWorld
August 5th, 2004, 06:53 PM
<DIV ALIGN=CENTER><TABLE WIDTH=450 BORDER=0 CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=7><TR><TD><DIV ALIGN=LEFT><FONT FACE="Arial" SIZE=2 COLOR="#000000"><A HREF="http://www.gateworld.net/sg1/s8/805.shtml"><IMG SRC="http://www.gateworld.net/sg1/graphics/805.jpg" WIDTH=160 HEIGHT=120 ALIGN=RIGHT HSPACE=10 VSPACE=2 BORDER=0 STYLE="border: 1px black solid" ALT="Visit the Episode Guide"></A><FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#666666">DISCUSS ...</FONT>
<FONT SIZE=4 COLOR="#0066BF"><B>ICON</B></FONT>
<FONT SIZE=1>EPISODE NUMBER - 805</FONT>
<IMG SRC="/images/clear.gif" WIDTH=1 HEIGHT=10 ALT="">
Daniel is stranded on another planet after the team's arrival on an alien world sparks a violent civil war.

<B><A HREF="http://www.gateworld.net/sg1/s8/805.shtml">Visit the Episode Guide >></A></B></FONT></DIV></TD></TR></TABLE></DIV>

ShadowMaat
August 6th, 2004, 05:52 PM
Don't think this will go down as one of the best this season. Fairly mundane, despite the global war stuff. The Daniel/Leda thing is irritating to all hell. Can we just give the romance stuff a rest? For once? The Beautiful Alien Girl Falls for Daniel/Jack thing gets a little tedious. Why can't a woman want to help out because it's the right thing to do?? Why do they have to have a crush on someone from SG-1 in order to be motivated? Jeez. They did it with Jonas in S6, too.

Still, there IS some good stuff in here. And I really like the opening with the tourists. hehe.

Kaloo
August 6th, 2004, 05:55 PM
"And I hope noone forgot to feed my Rash'nak(sp? Word?)"

Major Fischer
August 6th, 2004, 05:57 PM
Can this get stickied so it's not at the bottum of the folder?

Skydiver
August 6th, 2004, 05:59 PM
well, thus far.....snnnnooooorrrrrreeeee

it definitely has some potential, showing the effects the sgc can have on established societies, liek they've done in the past...new ground, the cure, the other side, forsaken, among others.


However, i've found the flashbacks rather jarring and confusing. They kill all the drama like we had in Death Knell where we didn't see the missing and in jeopardy teammember for a good 20 minutes and literally didn't know thier status.

There's this huge honkin plot hole of them never mentioning grabbing Promie and going to get daniel, especially since this had to span several weeks given how Daniel's injuries have healed.

I kept waiting for the berets and bad french accents of the French Resistance....and can we ever have any other allusion to bad guys other than Nazi type???

I'd like to see them actually dealing with the ramifications of thier impact on the planet, how things have changed, etc. But given that it's 852, i don't think that's likely.

I think this will go down like Red Sky.....ok, had potential but fell flat.

For me, it needed some drama and uncertainty. I KNOW that daniel will be rescued, that's a given. Right now the only unanswered question is whether or not the baddie will die.

Well, now we know that the baddie is a nutbar murderer and yep....he dies.

Predictible SG1 'happy' ending.

PYRO
August 6th, 2004, 06:00 PM
This was a average episode for me.


The props were crap though. I saw M1 Garand looking weapons, and Russian supmichene guns from WWII.

the adventurer
August 6th, 2004, 06:10 PM
I liked it alot myself, setting off a cold war pepper keg get was an interesting plot device, I love the begining with the Tourist and the MALP

the adventurer
August 6th, 2004, 06:56 PM
Oh and Something that took a second to figure out, those weren't Nuclear missle attacks just massive rocket bombardments. Which makes some sense from the apparent tech level (Mid Coldwar/WW2)

TheKatGoddess
August 6th, 2004, 07:00 PM
I happened to like it, but it wasn't the absolute best thing I'd watched. Being a Daniel fan should've made me like it, but, I was spending half the time enjoying and spending the other half of the time going "GEEZ, LEDA, YOU HAVE A HUSBAND!!! STOP WITH THE SWOONING!" Which is sad coming from an Daniel fan.

taupecat
August 6th, 2004, 07:04 PM
As always, I'm posting my 1st thoughts on this ep before I read everyone else's post.

In a word... meh.

Aside from a few snarky lines from Jack, and a very nice kitchen (can you tell I just bought a house?), not much in this episode to write home about. In all, a combination of Memento and New Ground and the whole Kelowna/Langara thing. A rare direct rehash of previous episodes.

Not a TiVo keeper.

Elwe Singollo
August 6th, 2004, 07:05 PM
I liked it, but it didn't knock down any of my top favorite episodes though.

Faith
August 6th, 2004, 07:06 PM
The only part of this ep I liked was the gate, malp and tourists, The rest was crap in my opnion. I hate people going and fighting among thierselfs. Makes me sick at my stomache. This is why I do not like our human race here on earth. To violent, to full of hatred, too rude and harsh. People that is. This ius why I seclude myself but I won't go into anymore. I like eps where we can learn something.

Arg This ep made me upset, I have waited all week to watch and all I get is this. BAHHHHHHH.........

Pelagia
August 6th, 2004, 07:10 PM
Can't we quit with the romance stuff? Story was kind of dull, and the back and forth between then and now was confusing and too bouncy. Shanks acting was great, we had Team stuff and SG-1 acted like they cared if Daniel was okay or not which was good. But quit with everyone falling in love with everybody else, please!

sg9fandom
August 6th, 2004, 07:10 PM
SPOILERS????????



Who else thought Saron was a Gou'ld? I was 1/2 expecting at the end for his eyes to GLOW especially since he went straight at them w/ a gun.

I was thinking he was kinda like SETH, he stayed on that planet until he could gain power once again. OH WELL!

It was a good daniel episode, reminded me of past eps though...

Elwe Singollo
August 6th, 2004, 07:11 PM
As always, I'm posting my 1st thoughts on this ep before I read everyone else's post.

In a word... meh.

Aside from a few snarky lines from Jack, and a very nice kitchen (can you tell I just bought a house?), not much in this episode to write home about. In all, a combination of Memento and New Ground and the whole Kelowna/Langara thing. A rare direct rehash of previous episodes.

Not a TiVo keeper.Except with Kelowna/Langara situation, it was the countries that were at war, in this episode, it was a independant activist who threatened all of the world, and it didn't seem the countries were at war just yet, since they did have talks, and they did only destroy the weapons that could be used against the other country.

keshou
August 6th, 2004, 07:21 PM
Just an average episode. Not the worst by any means, but below the standard set by the first three episodes of the season. I think the premise of the arrival of SG-1 setting off a war had potential but I never felt that involved in the story. I think most of the action being played out in the bunker made it seem a little flat; it just wasn't very convincing that two nations were involved in a great conflict.

The homage at the beginning to "English Patient" was an interesting way to start the story but the jumping back and forth to the flashback scenes was a little jarring at times.

By far the most irritating thing was the er....."thing" that Leda developed for Daniel. Kind of came out of left field and well...why does everyone have to fall in love with SG-1? Not necessary and it's becoming quite the cliche. :) Otherwise I liked Leda, although I know I've seen that actress in a previous episode. Can't remember which one.

Daniel did look nice in his leather jacket, though. :D

Elwe Singollo
August 6th, 2004, 07:26 PM
Maybe off-world humans are attracted to the SG1 team :rolleyes: But i didn't think Daniel and Leda would go as far as a touch on a face, but i don't know, i don't think Daniel's character would break up a marriage.

greytop
August 6th, 2004, 07:27 PM
SPOILERS????????



Who else thought Saron was a Gou'ld? I was 1/2 expecting at the end for his eyes to GLOW especially since he went straight at them w/ a gun.

I was thinking he was kinda like SETH, he stayed on that planet until he could gain power once again.
You aren't the only one who thought that Saron might be Gou'ald. I have half expected too.

Jarnin
August 6th, 2004, 07:28 PM
Except with Kelowna/Langara situation, it was the countries that were at war, in this episode, it was a independant activist who threatened all of the world, and it didn't seem the countries were at war just yet, since they did have talks, and they did only destroy the weapons that could be used against the other country.
Sorry to correct you, but they weren't "independant activists" they were religious fanatics and terrorists. Personally, I'm really getting tired of shows jumping on the terrorist bandwagon. Sure, they're the new bad guys in our world, but do we have to be reminded every time we turn on the television?

In my opinion this episode was blah. Better than meh, but only just barely.

Elwe Singollo
August 6th, 2004, 07:28 PM
Too bad he wasn't, we haven't seen a Goaúld eye-glow in a while! But i think i'm still satisfied that he wasn't.

Vyse
August 6th, 2004, 07:29 PM
I really liked this episode, then again I love stories where there is a religious nut as the big bad guy.

ShadowMaat
August 6th, 2004, 07:33 PM
Personally, I'm really getting tired of shows jumping on the terrorist bandwagon. Sure, they're the new bad guys in our world, but do we have to be reminded every time we turn on the television?
Amen to that. And the religious fanaticism to boot was a bit much. I get enough of this stuff on the nightly news. I don't need to see it in my entertainment too.

TheKatGoddess
August 6th, 2004, 07:38 PM
Yeah, definitely getting sick of religious terrorists. Considering my own personal religious choice is free-thinking, I would like to think that SciFi could try to jump on THAT bandwagon for a little while. Let's step away from the religions fighting for the sake of an episode. As for Michael Shanks's acting, it was REALLY good, and I think that you could tell that while Leda was all like "I helped you, let me worship you now...." Daniel was kinda like "Backing AWAY from the helpful native... back away... don't let it smell your fear..."

^_^

Sorry, I'm high as a kite from Ginger Ale and NyQuil, pardon me if my comments start to be a little loopy.

ShadowMaat
August 6th, 2004, 07:42 PM
Actually, I saw Daniel's reaching out to touch her face as encouraging her, not discouraging. Maybe you overheard me telling him to back away. ;)

TheKatGoddess
August 6th, 2004, 07:45 PM
LOL... It was you! It was ALL you! I could hear you from my room, and in my heightened state of Daniel fandom I THOUGHT it was him! Well, that cleared it up! :D Well, either way, there was no romance, just a maybe-possibly-ifDanielwasstuckthereforever chance! ^_^

Yu Huang Shang Ti
August 6th, 2004, 07:45 PM
SPOILERS????????



Who else thought Saron was a Gou'ld? I was 1/2 expecting at the end for his eyes to GLOW especially since he went straight at them w/ a gun.

I was thinking he was kinda like SETH, he stayed on that planet until he could gain power once again. OH WELL!

It was a good daniel episode, reminded me of past eps though...

Now that would've been a good twist, because I was expecting the same third-act revelation about Seth. And even without that, they totally dropped the ball on Saron's visit to the SGC. (Highlight for S4 "The Other Side" spoilers)

Jack had no trouble killing Alar because he was a Nazi-like racist monster. Saron's a crazy hyper-fundamentalist in roughly the same position, and they just let him waltz in and out of the facility like any other guest? We've treated System Lords worse than that! Guess that's what happens when Daniel isn't around to argue on behalf of humanity.

The episode was just so by-the-numbers. When a clip show like "Full Disclosure" is more entertaining than a whole new ep, we got problems, folks. Merely average shouldn't be good enough at this point.

SG1Poz
August 6th, 2004, 07:47 PM
I was disappointed with this episode. I found it too be very lack luster, boring and did I say boring? :( I forget, who wrote it?

ShadowMaat
August 6th, 2004, 07:48 PM
LOL... It was you! It was ALL you! I could hear you from my room, and in my heightened state of Daniel fandom I THOUGHT it was him! Well, that cleared it up! :D Well, either way, there was no romance, just a maybe-possibly-ifDanielwasstuckthereforever chance! ^_^
My voice sounded deeper than usual because I was flanging it in an attempt to use my Spooky ShadowPowers to get Daniel to listen to common sense and back away from the woman, but he never did listen very well... ;)

Hooni
August 6th, 2004, 07:48 PM
Not their most inspired episode. I agree that it was boring. I ended up concentrating on my knitting during most of it.

galaxymiss
August 6th, 2004, 07:51 PM
I thought the same thing. I was definitely expecting his eyes to glow at the end.


SPOILERS????????



Who else thought Saron was a Gou'ld? I was 1/2 expecting at the end for his eyes to GLOW especially since he went straight at them w/ a gun.

I was thinking he was kinda like SETH, he stayed on that planet until he could gain power once again. OH WELL!

It was a good daniel episode, reminded me of past eps though...

Mar9645
August 6th, 2004, 07:53 PM
I'm definitely in the minority here but I'll say it anyway: Finally! An episode I really enjoyed from start to finish!

This is a classic Stargate SG-1 story: innocently arrive on planet via Stargate, create a problem then do what's needed to fix it. All the acting and visual elements were right on target for the story they were telling. The few negative points I noticed were so minor it didn't matter.

I know this is going to become one of my rewatch favorites. Thank goodness for VCRs now and DVDs later.

Maybe there is some hope for Season 8 afterall.

TheKatGoddess
August 6th, 2004, 07:55 PM
My voice sounded deeper than usual because I was flanging it in an attempt to use my Spooky ShadowPowers to get Daniel to listen to common sense and back away from the woman, but he never did listen very well... ;)

Yeah, as this episode proved, Daniel seems to have NO common sense when it comes to the female gender... we'll have to teach him a lesson by the next episode. Using your Shadow Powers and my Kat Goddess Powers, it MIGHT JUST WORK! *Mad supervillian - I mean, superhero - laugh*

ShadowMaat
August 6th, 2004, 07:55 PM
The ironic thing is, I've been complaining that Stargate needs more eps where SG-1 actually manages to screw things up instead of saving the day, but when we finally get an ep with that (sort of), I don't care for it. I'll have to be more specific next time. ;)

MadJaffa
August 6th, 2004, 07:56 PM
I loved the off-world spinning gate, forgive me, as I've missed Zero Hour, but that was the first off-world spinning gate ever, right?

TheKatGoddess
August 6th, 2004, 07:56 PM
Specific is good. Like, maybe one where everyone's still involved.

Elwe Singollo
August 6th, 2004, 07:57 PM
I loved the off-world spinning gate, forgive me, as I've missed Zero Hour, but that was the first off-world spinning gate ever, right?What do you mean? This is the first time we've seen a gate other than Earth's being activated, with the spinning and everything? I don't think so.

PYRO
August 6th, 2004, 07:58 PM
They werent "in love" they just trusted each other.

Ace
August 6th, 2004, 07:59 PM
Wasn't Daniel suppose to speak Japanese or read something in Japanese in this episode? I'm pretty sure Joe Mallozzi said it was this episode...did I miss the scene or did Joe get the name of the episode wrong? Which can happen we are all human, well except Teal'c he's Jaffa. NOT Jaffar!

Pet peeve of mine! :D

Ace

TheKatGoddess
August 6th, 2004, 08:01 PM
Yeah, I think he got the name of the episode wrong, because, I'm studying Japanese, and there wasn't a SINGLE word of it. Maybe there will be further episodes with Amaterasu, considering Mallozzi also mentioned her and the fact that Daniel was speaking Japanese together.

Ouch! And how can someone write Jaffar and not J'affa?

MadJaffa
August 6th, 2004, 08:10 PM
What do you mean? This is the first time we've seen a gate other than Earth's being activated, with the spinning and everything? I don't think so.

I don't remember ever seeing it spin before.

P90
August 6th, 2004, 08:12 PM
One of the things that really bothered me was the different camera that they used during some of the action scenes. It looked like the hurky jerky "action" camera that more and more films and shows are using. It just looked grainy and low budget. :S

TheKatGoddess
August 6th, 2004, 08:13 PM
Nope. It spins all the time. We've seen it on MANY an episode where they open the show with the landscape of a new world... then the gate activates and spins and FWOOSH - flushing sideways and either a MALP, SG-1, another SG team, or a bad guy comes through!

ShadowMaat
August 6th, 2004, 08:16 PM
I thought offworld, outside gates didn't spin because they can't make a working gate that breaks down into pieces for easy hauling to location shots. The one in the studio is the only one that actually "works".

Or that was always my understanding of it.

TheKatGoddess
August 6th, 2004, 08:23 PM
Naw, I don't think that was it. I mean, I've seen episodes where the gate spins, and some episodes where it doesn't. I mean, I wonder if just has to do with whether or not they want the effect, I guess. I'm not sure, but I should look that up. I mean, the episode Shades of Grey - and I only remember this because I happened to watch it today - when Jack hides from the incoming team, the gate spins before SG-1 comes through. Then it spins when he dials again. I dunno. It's another one of those "Just accept it" things.

keshou
August 6th, 2004, 08:29 PM
I thought offworld, outside gates didn't spin because they can't make a working gate that breaks down into pieces for easy hauling to location shots. The one in the studio is the only one that actually "works".

Or that was always my understanding of it.

That's my understanding too. Now it could be they insert the spinning element we saw using CGI. The iris closing is CGI as I recall.

Major Fischer
August 6th, 2004, 08:30 PM
So my comments...

I actually rather loved this episode, but I'm a Cold War historian by trade and it played to all my personal loves. Could have done without some of the swooning over Daniel thing, but that's a classic element in stories about war and nurses. Could have been worse though.

So, particular points....

* Loved the tourists and the MALP, sooner or later they needed to come out in museum, I only wish they'd actually walked out to meet the tourists instead of waiting for dignetaries.

* Loved seeing Carter in charge, and being in charge as a soldier. She looked more comfortable this time than in the brief scene in Zero Hour. They did the military tactics in the take over of the base really well. It seemed quite belieable to me.

* As a general point of interest I saw the following weapons. Kalashnikov AK 47 (early model, looked like a milled reciever), PPSch-41 (Soviet made submachine gun, famous for looking like a farm implement), PPS-43 (Soviet made submachine gun, famous for it's role in the Siege of Leningrad), M1 Garand (US made self loading rifle, standard infantry weapon in WWII and Korea). Based on this, and the fact that the two nations had missile technology, but not nuclear weapons I'd be willing to place their tech at about 1947.

I don't have a particular issue with the use of earth guns as props, it gave a nice feel to the episode to me. My only comment was the actors must have been dying from holding the Garand that way. I used to competition shoot that rifle and I'd have NEVER tried to fire or move that way, but than again, it's hardly a close combat sort of weapon.

In general, not a great episode, not a horrible one. Wasn't a waste of my video tape.

TheKatGoddess
August 6th, 2004, 08:30 PM
That's quite viable, and probably what they do. I just noticed that the Gate in the show spins in the episode. Personally, I don't care how they do it, so long as it looks cool and gets done.

Animalian
August 6th, 2004, 09:07 PM
Ok everytime I heard the name Saron (sp?) and all that I was like...suddenly expecting a litle Hobbit to pop out with a Ring. I swear, i could not get that out of my head!


Other than that, and the fact that I missed the first 20 minutes, i liked it.

w1cket01
August 6th, 2004, 10:16 PM
If the tech level is around 1947, does that mean that the Goauld took humans from around that time to colonize that planet? or is it just a parallel development pattern?

Yu Huang Shang Ti
August 6th, 2004, 10:20 PM
Has to be parallel development, since they mentioned the legends of their gods were thousands of years old in the teaser.

Also, just a few days ago, a rerun of "2001" showed a spinning offworld gate -- not uncoincidentally, a CGI one. (It even did the SGC's modified dialing sequence, since the Aschen didn't have a DHD.)

Major Fischer
August 6th, 2004, 10:22 PM
Humans on lots of planets developed long past the level they were at when the Goa'uld took them. PD was done better here than it was in some other SciFi series I shall not mention where it equaled identical developement. Essentially, there are logical steps from one technological developement to the next.

Without a world war to drive the need for the massive expenditure of a nuclear program than I can see why they might, say, have a ton of A4/V2 type rockets with high explosive.

Submachine guns follow logically from Self Loading rifles, and Assault Rifles follow from Submachine guns.

w1cket01
August 6th, 2004, 10:25 PM
While the gun technology follows a logical sequence, I don't think the design would be an exact replica of earth weapons right?

Major Fischer
August 6th, 2004, 10:31 PM
No, but gun tech of that level is harder to make props for than "fake future weapons." Suspend your disbelief. IT's called a budget.

VixyOwl (~~Ani)
August 6th, 2004, 11:14 PM
Other than the pre-stated issues with the "woman defined by her libido instead of her reason" cliche...

I have one big question. Anyone want to verify why it's called "Icon"?

I'm assuming it's because the gate's an icon for them just as the cross is for Christians, but I have a nagging feeling that I'm overlooking something...

Elwe Singollo
August 6th, 2004, 11:21 PM
I don't remember ever seeing it spin before.If i can remember, they did show in the S7 premiere the gate on Kelowna, but i'm not 100 percent sure about the whole spinning.

Erik Pasternak
August 6th, 2004, 11:23 PM
If i can remember, they did show in the S7 premiere the gate on Kelowna, but i'm not 100 percent sure about the whole spinning.
I don't think it spun on Kelowna (or Langara, whatever you prefer), because they have a DHD. Which means an "Icon," it didn't spin because they didn't have a DHD (or at least I didn't see one.

Erik Pasternak
August 6th, 2004, 11:24 PM
I thought offworld, outside gates didn't spin because they can't make a working gate that breaks down into pieces for easy hauling to location shots. The one in the studio is the only one that actually "works".

Or that was always my understanding of it.
I'm thinking CGI.

Elwe Singollo
August 6th, 2004, 11:33 PM
I don't think it spun on Kelowna (or Langara, whatever you prefer), because they have a DHD. Which means an "Icon," it didn't spin because they didn't have a DHD (or at least I didn't see one.Oo- i misunderstood what the person was talking about, i understand now :)

Erik Pasternak
August 6th, 2004, 11:39 PM
Oo- i misunderstood what the person was talking about, i understand now :)
I'm happy you understand now (nice avatar by the way, though Camulus was MUCH more original than Jonas).

Elwe Singollo
August 6th, 2004, 11:41 PM
Another thing i wanted to see in this episode was the other country, not just the religous evil dude and the country he was taking over.

I like my 4 people, Jonas, Camulus, Daniel, and Amaterasu, many many more :D

TameFarrar
August 6th, 2004, 11:59 PM
Just my two cents on the episode :) (will try not to rehash what has been said)

I was happy to see a Daniel centric episode but then kind of dismayed. It was hard to follow the timeline thing sometimes and that was distracting.
Not sure if it was plot holes or just the timing in the episode. It just didn't hold my attention like the rest of this season has so far. I know things get lost in editing but this seemed a bit extreme in what the audience was supposed to infer or it was just not very good writing.

Overall it was an *OK* episode and definitely a bit of a let down after what has gone before. But I attribute that to my personal preference for RDA as a foil to the characters.

I did like that Jack was NOT the *one line guy* so I feel that TPTB are using his time well

Sam in charge was good

Teal'c just plopping down in Jack's office had me laughing :)

I liked that they all were focused on getting Daniel home.

Did not like the insinuation that Daniel was *hitting* on a MARRIED woman with hubs over in the house or just out for a bit.

Elwe Singollo
August 7th, 2004, 12:06 AM
I wasn't sure if anyone mentioned or commented on how Teal'c got his 2 cents in while talking to Soran (i think that was his name), i was like, wow, this is an upgrade in his talking department compared to last season.

Sicarius
August 7th, 2004, 12:31 AM
Ended up getting out a magazine about 15 minutes into this one. Idea was fine; I just got bogged down (bored) by the set-up/world-building--too much for a 40 minute (after commercials) show.

Elwe Singollo
August 7th, 2004, 12:44 AM
I got out a magazine watching Atlantis's episode, haha, but yah, the episode got a tad bit better ;) Well, hmm, i hope their country gets better :)

Earlier in this thread, said something about the similar guns with Earth, i would think they are humans that think alike the ones from Earth :)

Buzz Lightyear
August 7th, 2004, 02:18 AM
No, but gun tech of that level is harder to make props for than "fake future weapons." Suspend your disbelief. IT's called a budget.

I realize they have a limited budget but the familiarity of the guns still bothered me. And I'm not even a weapons aficionado. I wouldn't be able to tell you what the various models are but I recognized enough for the lack of differences to really bug me. The enemy leader had this hand weapon that looked different enough from a typical Earth gun, so why couldn't they do the same for the other firearms? They just need to be props; they don't have to even fire blanks.

Buzz Lightyear
August 7th, 2004, 02:20 AM
Earlier in this thread, said something about the similar guns with Earth, i would think they are humans that think alike the ones from Earth :)

They might have similar technology but at least the physical appearance and design should be different.

Mio
August 7th, 2004, 02:43 AM
At first, I thought this episode would remind me of New Ground, but then, heh, very different.

I wonder why Daniel didn't have a zat, but he had an earth gun?

Elfinwood
August 7th, 2004, 04:10 AM
As always, I'm posting my 1st thoughts on this ep before I read everyone else's post.

In a word... meh.

Aside from a few snarky lines from Jack, and a very nice kitchen (can you tell I just bought a house?), not much in this episode to write home about. In all, a combination of Memento and New Ground and the whole Kelowna/Langara thing. A rare direct rehash of previous episodes.

Not a TiVo keeper.


Hee hee. I was thinking the same thing about the house. Lovely house. Very up-scale. Pretty bad when the house captures my attention more than the show.

I, too, liked the opening with the tourists.

I miss Discovery Daniel. He had more passion...or showed more anyway. Or maybe I just miss the bickering he would have had with Jack if they had been there as a team. :S I also felt that the romance angle was unnecessary and this is coming from someone who usually doesn't mind a bit of that in a show. Maybe Daniel is going to get the alien of the week now that Sam has a bf. :rolleyes:

I liked seeing Jack a bit frustrated back home. Man of action tied to the base. Not his cup of tea. I liked seeing Carter in charge of a firefight. Very competent.

Overall, the ep was okay. I fell asleep during the second showing though. I hadn't done that with the other eps so far this season. In fact, I was eager to watch them the second time.

OhForCryinOutLoud
August 7th, 2004, 04:12 AM
Yeah, OK ep, but it seemed a little like a retread of past storylines - The Other Side, 100 Days, etc. But the team still has their shorthand for dealing with each other. There was really never any doubt that they'd go after Daniel. And still some very good lines!
Soran: You speak what is on your mind. I admire that.
O'Neill: Actually, in your case - he's holding back.

LOL!

taupecat
August 7th, 2004, 04:40 AM
Except with Kelowna/Langara situation, it was the countries that were at war, in this episode, it was a independant activist who threatened all of the world, and it didn't seem the countries were at war just yet, since they did have talks, and they did only destroy the weapons that could be used against the other country.

Yeah, but there *was* a cold war going on, like there was on Kelowna/Langara, and it was obvious that the two countries didn't trust each other. And the tech seemed to be about on the same level, too.

Teal'c
August 7th, 2004, 04:51 AM
I liked how SG-1 arrived, I liked Teal'c talking to Soran, I liked... something else that I forget right now. But that was about it. I felt the episode was quite boring.

Of course, dozens of people screamed out to go back to the "classic" SG-1 episodes, like this one, and what happens? It's nowhere near as good as the previous 4 episodes :P In fact, the last 4 5th episodes have been a let down (Icon, Revisions, Nightwalkers, Red Sky)

However, I wasn't very disapointed as I was expecting a Revisions-esque episode and that's what I got. Hopefully it will grow on me like Lifeboat did...

High hope for next week's Avatar! :D

morjana
August 7th, 2004, 05:05 AM
At first, I thought this episode would remind me of New Ground, but then, heh, very different.

I wonder why Daniel didn't have a zat, but he had an earth gun?

Daniel rarely has a zat as his sidearm...he usually has the 9mm.

Sam. on the other hand, changed to carrying a zat as her sidearm (as did Teal'c) in season two.

Which I've always thought was a little odd...Daniel, the supposed pacifist, carrying the 9mm and Sam the zat.

Also odd too, how in this episode, Daniel was the one who suggested a resolution that was an armed conflict instead of his usual "let's talk and play nice" maneuver. Looks like he's been hanging around Jack too much.

Loved Peter Woeste's direction of this episode -- all his episodes are beautiful to look at -- alway visually stunning.

Morjana

Jonisa
August 7th, 2004, 05:21 AM
Overall, I liked the episode quite a bit. It was a little slower-paced than some others, but I enjoyed it.

I liked the fact that SG-1 caused this situation to develop, and that when the episode was over, there were still a lot of problems on that planet. No neat and tidy fixes here.

I liked the whole WWII feel of the episode, as that's always been a part of history I've been interested in.

It showed that Daniel isn't necessariy a pacifist, just more of a...well, I'm not exactly sure what he is. Someone help me out here. ;) I definitely agreed with him that those religious zealots needed to be removed from power.

I liked the concern for a team member, I liked how competent Sam was in charge, I liked how Jack dealt with that creepy Soren guy.

I wasn't wild about the romance aspect, but at least it wasn't taken very far..at all. I did think it understandable that Daniel would have become close to the woman during his convalescence.

The structure of the episodes, all those flashbacks, hasn't been used very often, and I'm all for Stargate trying different methods of telling the story.

Shallow moment--Daniel looked very nice. :p

Ugly Pig
August 7th, 2004, 05:46 AM
Another weekend, another new SG-1 episode. But more importantly,


PIGGY'S USELESS OPINION
of 'Icon'

Well, okay - maybe not more importantly but it's here anyway. I didn't have very high expectations for this episode. Maybe because I didn't know much about it. Wow, almost completely spoiler free for once! How about that! In any case, I ended up enjoying it a lot.

First, a nitpick: Is not this the first time ever we've seen an off-world gate spin when receiving an incoming wormhole? They don't usually do that, why start now? Big can of worms there!

Moving on... So the episode begins with Daniel in bed in some foreign place with a nipple showing, getting some kind of bandage removed from his head by an unknown woman and I don't have a clue what's going on. Fortunately, flashbacks from three months earlier and onwards gradually fill in the backstory. Cool.

Good stuff: Jack in charge - he seems to be settling in nicely, and it looks like he's on top of the situation. The whole revolution plot - kinda reminiscent of 'Shadow Play' only it actually happens this time. The music - provided the appropriate amount of tension for the story. Not that it doesn't always do that, but somehow I felt it did it exceptionally well this time. The climax - plenty of beautiful merciless killings. Keep that body count going guys! Otherwise, a nice stand-alone episode. Come to think of it, it's the only one so far this season that doesn't touch upon any previously established story arcs whatsoever.

Bad stuff: I got the feeling it won't be as entertaining on repeat viewings, but that remains to be seen. And the fact that I can't think of anything else to say about the episode and I need to pass time while waiting for the new Atlantis ep. Oh well, I can always go back and see what everyone else said about the episode.

Ugly Pig
August 7th, 2004, 06:11 AM
Okay - having now read the previous posts in this thread I gotta say I'm surprised at some of the things you guys didn't like.

The "romance" thing. IMO, there was no romance thing. Sure, they grew close, but that there'd be romantic feelings involved never even occured to me until the husband asked her if she loved him. She admitted to trusting Daniel - that doesn't mean she wuws him. I just took it as the guy being overly suspicious of his wife.

The flashbacks. I've seen several comments that it was confusing, or took you out of the story or whatever. I'm kinda surprised at this too, as I had no such problems when I was watching. The flashbacks were conviniently labeled with "Three Months Ago", "Two Months Ago" etc. so I don't see how it could be cunfusing. Wasn't "taken out of the story", either - I wanted to see what had happened. Didn't you guys ever see Godfather 2? :D

ShadowMaat
August 7th, 2004, 06:53 AM
Another thing I wondered... at the end, when the SGC team meets up with Daniel's crew... how come no one brought an extra gun for Daniel? I mean, yes, the shotgun or whatever he was using was very nice, but would he be more familiar with Earth weapons? And wouldn't he be of more use with something a little more "modern"? I know they were trying to highlight Daniel's "alliance" with the locals, but really... there's a time to show solidarity and there's a time to kick as much ass as you can. ;)

aAnubiSs
August 7th, 2004, 06:57 AM
They should have used Zats and or Intars.

You don't go around and kill people like that =) They aren't Jaffa, they're humans. We don't execute everyone on Earth, we put them in prison.

ShadowMaat
August 7th, 2004, 06:59 AM
The problem with using intars and zats is that the people you're fighting are using real guns with real bullets. They have no compunction about killing you and your friends and unless you have time to stop in the middle of a firefight to dash out and secure those you've knocked unconscious they could wake up again at an inconvenient point and shoot you.

aAnubiSs
August 7th, 2004, 07:00 AM
Zat them and remove their weapons afterwards.

It's not like they're gonna be able to fire after being zatted.

Jelmer
August 7th, 2004, 07:06 AM
I liked the episode, it wasn't the best written, the most spectacular, the most engaging drama or whatever - it was simply a solid kinda typical SG-1 episode where they go off world, get into trouble with the locals, get out of it and help the locals get to a better stage in their development. Contrary to others I wasn't bothered by the 2 countries/cold war thingy, I think it's only natural things would grow like this - but they could have made it a bit more complex then just 2 big countries (for which they probably didn't have the time).

I hope they'll allow these people to grow and become an interesting ally, they should be able to as these people are very close to our stage of development. I'm also hoping for the Kelownans to return in that fasion, it would be nice if earth could actually built some kind of United Planets like the UN is on earth.

I was glad they killed Soren off, it was the right thing to do. Such men are beyond any help and when at a stage like they are without any police or properly secured prisons you can't afford the risk a hidden loyalist would free him. The best thing to do IMO is to rip the heart out of such a dangerous movement as radically as possible, most of its followers will give up after that. The one's that don't should be either locked up or shot when there isn't any way to inprison them properly. Such a thing may appear unethical but if you would allow such a movement to grow again the result would only be more death. Daniel, as always, was a bit naive here but he finally did seem to understand the necessity of such a deed (unlike he did in Menace for instance).

Lastly, on the Daniel-Leda thing, I thought the basics were right: it's only natural that in a disaster like this a man and a woman put together would grow close. But my problem with it was that while it was clear to me she still loved her husband, they just had some isues to work out, Daniel looked like he was trying to hit on her. It could be explained by his naive way of trying to help. I would have liked it better if they would have found a way to make this more clearly a trusting friendship, for instance by making Daniel mention Sarah as his girlfriend.

ShadowMaat
August 7th, 2004, 07:11 AM
Zat them and remove their weapons afterwards.

It's not like they're gonna be able to fire after being zatted.
Oh yes. So you're in the middle of a firefight with a lot of people shooting real bullets at you and you manage to zat one of them. What are you going to do, hold up your hand and say "Time out! I just need to run over to your side and grab this guy and take his weapon away before he wakes up!" :P

aAnubiSs
August 7th, 2004, 07:12 AM
It's not that hard. One doesn't place 200 troops on the same spot, so you zat one spot, move forward and remove their weapons. Then move on.

ShadowMaat
August 7th, 2004, 07:15 AM
We'll have to agree to disagree, then. It's off topic from the thread and we're both entrenched in our own opinions.

Icon: it could have been a lot better. I suppose the show needs a few "quieter" eps after all the excitement of the past few eps, but I didn't care for it. This one was dull enough to be in S7. :P

DJFavorite
August 7th, 2004, 07:20 AM
This wasn't a bad episode, but it wasn't a great episode either.

I liked seeing the team's concern for Daniel.

The going back and forth from the present to the past didn't flow as nicely as I would have liked. I think the transitions could have been done a little bit better.

I try to think that all Daniel was trying to do was sympathize with Leda. He's got a big heart and was just trying to comfort her in her time of stress. There was not romantic edge on Daniel's part. I guess my ship denial/refusal does that to me.

Ugly Pig
August 7th, 2004, 07:23 AM
You don't go around and kill people like that =) They aren't Jaffa, they're humans. We don't execute everyone on Earth, we put them in prison.
I beg to differ. In war, on Earth, you do go around and kill people like that. :p

aAnubiSs
August 7th, 2004, 07:24 AM
Only if you have to.

ShadowMaat
August 7th, 2004, 07:25 AM
I try to think that all Daniel was trying to do was sympathize with Leda. He's got a big heart and was just trying to comfort her in her time of stress. There was not romantic edge on Daniel's part. I guess my ship denial/refusal does that to me.
Regardless of whether or not Daniel had "feelings", he most emphatically should NOT have been reaching out to try and touch her face. Maybe he meant it as a comforting gesture, but he has to think of the context of the situation. Leda has just admitted she cares for him and he's reaching out to stroke her cheek. Way to send the wrong kind of signals, Dannyboy.

TechnoBoY
August 7th, 2004, 07:26 AM
I thought this episode was okay. I find myself trying to like to more then it really was. I had high hopes for this ep because I really like eps like this. Where SG1 arriving affect the worlds they go on in a massive scale. But this one fell short. Oh well.

Does anybody else think that if an ep like this were done in lets say, season 5 or 6 it would have probably been done better? I feel that once Daniel got back something really changed in the style of writing and stuff in the SG1 eps. Anyone else agree? It just feels different.

ShadowMaat
August 7th, 2004, 07:29 AM
I feel that once Daniel got back something really changed in the style of writing and stuff in the SG1 eps. Anyone else agree? It just feels different.
It does feel different. It probably should be different, given all that's happened. The question is, is it different in a good way? I'm not convinced that it is...

If the goodness of the first few eps of S8 were just a fluke and it's all downhill from here, I shall be disappointed. Again...

Token
August 7th, 2004, 07:55 AM
Regardless of whether or not Daniel had "feelings", he most emphatically should NOT have been reaching out to try and touch her face. Maybe he meant it as a comforting gesture, but he has to think of the context of the situation. Leda has just admitted she cares for him and he's reaching out to stroke her cheek. Way to send the wrong kind of signals, Dannyboy.Exactly! The face touching scene was what made me say, "Excuse me, she's married! What are you doing?!"

IMHO, this "feeling" relationship was not needed but used to further the story. Questions I asked myself: Did Daniel use Leda's "feelings" for him to convince her to help him? Was Leda's "feelings" the only reason she talked to her husband about supporting Daniel? Was Jared's love for his wife the only reason he agreed to the revolt?

There was a more touching "goodbye" between Leda and Daniel than Leda and Jared. IMO, Daniel and Leda's relationship was inappropriate for a married woman.

keshou
August 7th, 2004, 08:12 AM
It does feel different. It probably should be different, given all that's happened. The question is, is it different in a good way? I'm not convinced that it is...
If the goodness of the first few eps of S8 were just a fluke and it's all downhill from here, I shall be disappointed. Again...
Icon wasn't a great episode but I enjoyed it more than several episodes from season 7. It was a standalone episode, not building on any of the established story arcs and sometimes those aren't as compelling unless the story presented is very very good or the original characters and guest actors bring a lot to the table.

The setup in Icon was interesting, loved the team arriving in the middle of the museum exhibit and then everything falling apart on the planet, I just didn't feel a lot of emotional investment in the story. And the problem with Leda developing romantic feelings for Daniel (totally cliched and unnecessary to the story) has already been discussed.

BUT, I still feel like the team interaction is continuing on the same path set out in the first three episodes. It's a much more comfortable dynamic than we were seeing in season 7. As much as I miss Hammond, I think it has been a brilliant move to put Jack in charge of the SGC as RDA's time is being used more intelligently and it's interesting character development to see Jack filling Hammonds' shoes and having to be "the Man". He still gets the best lines:

Crazy fanatic guy: " I see you also revere the great ring"
General Jack: "Yeah, we love the old gal" :D

Carter was great in this episode, I loved seeing her lead the team. Daniel was Daniel, but I felt more comfortable watching him *be* Daniel than I did at times in season 7 -- if that makes any sense.

There are always some average episodes in EVERY season. If this is the worst episode of season 8 I'll be a happy camper.

norriski
August 7th, 2004, 08:41 AM
OK, don't really understand why so any people are stuck on the Daniel/Leda thing...lets face it that is somethig that is nown to happen in RL. She saw hope in Daniel and his faith that his friends could help them...her husband that been neglicting (sp) her, so hey I'm sorry but that was a natrual progression. But when it came down to it she said she trusted Daniel, not that she "loved" him.

That said, I may be in the minority here but I really like this episode. I liked the dealing with the WWII "timeframe" kind of thing looking at some of the what could have happened aspects of that time in our history.

I had no problems with the flashbacks, they were clearly definded to me. I loved that Daniel never gave up on contacting home and that home didn't give up on Daniel...

But the best part for me was the radio conversation ...."Hello....Guys..." "Daniel" then the insueing converstation with Daniel speaking in code and Jack "he's changed comment"....I loved that ...

ShadowMaat
August 7th, 2004, 09:05 AM
OK, don't really understand why so any people are stuck on the Daniel/Leda thing...lets face it that is something that is known to happen in RL.
For me, it isn't a matter of whether or not it happens in RL, it's the fact that it ALWAYS seems to happen on SG-1. The Girl always seems to fall for The Guy (whether it's Jack, Daniel, Teal'c or Jonas) and her crush is always the primary motivator for her deciding to Do The Right Thing.

And then there's the fact that Leda is married. I'm getting heartily sick of the whole, "I'm married, but my husband just doesn't understand/love me anymore!" business, too. It feels like that's been cropping up on TV in general these days and I don't care if that "really happens" too, I'm sick of seeing it and I most emphatically do NOT want to see it on Stargate. What purpose does it serve? Why can't Leda help Daniel WITHOUT having to have a stupid crush on him?

aAnubiSs
August 7th, 2004, 09:09 AM
Some people, like me, uses sarcasm as fuel. All females uses their love for us(the men) as fuel :)


I am correct right? Or did I miss something in school.

TechnoBoY
August 7th, 2004, 09:12 AM
It does feel different. It probably should be different, given all that's happened. The question is, is it different in a good way? I'm not convinced that it is...

I'm not convinced that it is either. I dont like it as much. I have said this many times before, but I dont really feel for the characters as much anymore. :S

Buzz Lightyear
August 7th, 2004, 09:19 AM
Which I've always thought was a little odd...Daniel, the supposed pacifist, carrying the 9mm and Sam the zat.

Also odd too, how in this episode, Daniel was the one who suggested a resolution that was an armed conflict instead of his usual "let's talk and play nice" maneuver. Looks like he's been hanging around Jack too much.

Just because Daniel is not a war-monger doesn't automatically make him a pacifist either, because at no point in the series has it ever been stated that he's a pacifist. Plus, he's already in the middle of a war that has been raging for three months, all the major cities have been leveled by intercontinental ballistic missiles, and the main enemy is a fanatic who immediately executes anyone who doesn't agree with him. When he went back originally, it was with the intent to help those people co-operate but he could see for himself that at least two of the factions were not interested in peace. Remember the time frame - he only suggested the armed resolution AFTER three months there.

TameFarrar
August 7th, 2004, 09:30 AM
For me, it isn't a matter of whether or not it happens in RL, it's the fact that it ALWAYS seems to happen on SG-1. The Girl always seems to fall for The Guy (whether it's Jack, Daniel, Teal'c or Jonas) and her crush is always the primary motivator for her deciding to Do The Right Thing.

And then there's the fact that Leda is married. I'm getting heartily sick of the whole, "I'm married, but my husband just doesn't understand/love me anymore!" business, too. It feels like that's been cropping up on TV in general these days and I don't care if that "really happens" too, I'm sick of seeing it and I most emphatically do NOT want to see it on Stargate. What purpose does it serve? Why can't Leda help Daniel WITHOUT having to have a stupid crush on him?
I think you have touch at the heart of this for me as well. No this moment didn't define the episode and it didn't overshadow the whole episode BUT it sticks out and is being remembered so THAT is what makes it important. It bothered people for their own reasons.

For me it was for these two;
1) It may very be that a man in recovery will feel something for the woman who took care of him. But it came off as an attraction of a sexual nature IMHO and with her being married I didn't need to see it.

2)it is EVERYWHERE on TV (as Shadow just stated) and I am really tired of seeing it. The ONLY purpose it could have served in my eyes on Star Gate was to show that was the reason the woman did all she did. She may NOT have loved Daniel but she was attracted and Her husband had changed and yadda yadda yadda....it was just more of the same I see on other shows.

The fact that this 30 seconds of TV stands out and bothers me is why it is important IMO. There were many things I enjoyed about the episode and I stated those in another post. And I really have no issue with romance on SG as I am a shipper and I like romance :) but not in this manner, Daniel doesn't have to be in a love triangle to be compelling in a romantic situation.

I think what bothers me about this as well is that the writers feel compelled to resort to these gimmicks rather than just be straight forward

Yosho
August 7th, 2004, 09:56 AM
Another thing I wondered... at the end, when the SGC team meets up with Daniel's crew... how come no one brought an extra gun for Daniel? I mean, yes, the shotgun or whatever he was using was very nice, but would he be more familiar with Earth weapons?

They were Earth weapons, some were very old but they were Earth weapons. M1 Garand, PPSH, PPS, AK-47 were the ones I noticed.

All in all I thought it was alright, it was nice to see a culture that similar to ours. Even if they are to lazy to make their own weapons. ;)
I didn't really care all that much for the romance though. Daniel dosn't need a woman on every planet.

ShadowMaat
August 7th, 2004, 10:01 AM
They were Earth weapons, some were very old but they were Earth weapons. M1 Garand, PPSH, PPS, AK-47 were the ones I noticed.
I've been following that conversation, but I'm not that anal retentive about it. :P For the purposes of the story, the shotguns and whatever that the locals were using were intended to be of local origin. Thus, I want to know why Sam or someone didn't give Daniel a modern weapon of Earth origin.

Major Fischer
August 7th, 2004, 10:06 AM
I've been following that conversation, but I'm not that anal retentive about it. :P For the purposes of the story, the shotguns and whatever that the locals were using were intended to be of local origin. Thus, I want to know why Sam or someone didn't give Daniel a modern weapon of Earth origin.

Who do you ask to carry the extra weapon into battle? And the ammunition, for someone you may not run into immediately?

ShadowMaat
August 7th, 2004, 10:13 AM
Who do you ask to carry the extra weapon into battle? And the ammunition, for someone you may not run into immediately?
I was always under the impression that folks tended to carry "backup" weapons in case one gun jammed or ran out of ammo or something. Or heck, take it off a dead guy (if there is one). I've seen it- or something similar- happen in lots of movies and TV shows. Granted, the person being given the weapon usually doesn't have one of his own at the time, but... *shrug* Whatever. It was just something I noticed. Unless people are going to keep carping about the "local" weapons being of "old Earth" origin, then I don't intend to make a big deal out of it. I only wondered...

crazylinguist
August 7th, 2004, 10:17 AM
Who do you ask to carry the extra weapon into battle? And the ammunition, for someone you may not run into immediately?Also, if Daniel was the one that communicated his plan for them to attack at the same time, they (SGC) would probobly just assume that he would have one of their weapons or something.

As for the rest of the ep. (I just watched it this morning because I just got home and had to tape it :( -it just isn't the same...)

I enjoyed watching this episode. While I agree it wasn't their better episodes it did have some things that I liked about it. I wasn't too fond of the flash backs, I think they interrupted the flow of things. (It wasn't confusing to me). I think they would have had a more interresting and dramatic show if it had been done liniar.

I did like the whole premise for the episode though. It made you stop and think how easily things can become out of balence in the world. I also loved the part where Daniel finally got thru to SGC and started talking in code. It just amused me for some reason.

Overall, a good ep. not a great one (but not bad either.)

Elwe Singollo
August 7th, 2004, 11:26 AM
If i were to rate this episode from 1-10, i would think it would be around a 6.5 or something.

PYRO
August 7th, 2004, 11:33 AM
As I have said before, goo episode except the fact they had shoty props....I bet they went to some mueseum and 'rented' a few M1 Garands from WWII. The same rifles the military personal had in "Icon" were used by infentry men in WWII......

TheKatGoddess
August 7th, 2004, 11:38 AM
The weaponry really didn't bother me, I liked the episode all around. Like Shadow, I think it was just the whole Daniel/Leda thing that made me just want to smack someone (Daniel :p). I mean, it was nice to see Daniel have a chick... but, I kinda want to see him on his own for a bit, and without having to rely on sexual attraction to get his way. Did it seem like that to anyone else? I mean, he knew that she liked him... right? Hence the "wrong signal" ness that we've been talking about. So... the only motivation I can see would be that he knew he needed to get back and off the planet, and since she was there and throwing herself onto his feet, he just kinda went "Can we get this over with so I can forget about it as SOON as I get back?"

Hm... rating, though. I think I'll give a rating of a 7.8. IT wasn't the best, and some things irked me, but it a good Daniel-centric ep. I just wanted less angst and fluff, and a little more Daniel trying to use his brain.

Then again... God gave men enough blood to run only ONE at a time... *sigh* -_-;;

Major Fischer
August 7th, 2004, 11:44 AM
As I have said before, goo episode except the fact they had shoty props....I bet they went to some mueseum and 'rented' a few M1 Garands from WWII. The same rifles the military personal had in "Icon" were used by infentry men in WWII......

Don't forget Korea :rolleyes:

Actually, I'm sure they didn't have to go to a museum, you know studios do rent firearms from prop houses all the time. I think perhaps some people are underestimating two fundamental facts, recreating realistic older looking firearms is harder than you might think (someone pointed out the guy's pistol being different, looked like a flare gun to me). They wanted something vaguely world war II like, *shrug*.

The other thing I'm seeing a lot of here is the underestimation of exactly how iconic weapons are in general. I am a specialist. I assure you, almost all weapons are iconic. Any firearm available in sufficient supplies that it could be rented for a tv production would be recognized.

I'd rather they had not used the early AK's--because that weapon is by definition the most widely recognized in the world--however, I'd say they did a decent job for the most part in chosing Soviet submachineguns (the PPS and PPSh). In fact, I'd venture to guess that if they had wanted consistency in design and something most people wouldn't have recognized, they'd have to have used Japanese small arms of the same period. I'm not entirely sure they are easy to rent though (many were tossed into Toyko bay), and I would be entirely uncomfortable firing blanks with them (they are horribly designed, horribly manufactured, overly complicated....).

But I also know where i want them to spend their money, and constructing a couple dozen entirely new firearms props that they aren't ever going to use again isn't it.

Ugly Pig
August 7th, 2004, 12:04 PM
Once again, I am surprised at how people react to the Daniel/Leda thing. Sexual attraction? I'm wondering if I missed something, because I honestly saw nothing of the sort... :S

Newbie
August 7th, 2004, 12:24 PM
I don't even care about Leda.

Anyway...what I thought. The episode was ok. Soran, dude, star trek. This ep reminded me of one of the eps form previews seasons...it was jst taken furhter...the wierd flashbacks worked out...but they were not traditional, they were....wierd...think that's it.

Bandersnatch
August 7th, 2004, 12:36 PM
Howdy Campers,

So -- Icon -- Number 5 for season 8 -- hmmm. Well, the "squirrelly" joke was cute. And for the first time since *New Order* I managed to catch the usual sparkle in RDA's eyes for a split second. I'm not sure why -- it's been missing in the past few shows. Maybe I'm just hyper-analyzing stuff. Who knows. The episode was okay though -- the time travel was like "wha...?" for a few seconds. Seems to be something the writers are implying a lot of right now. It works. It'll get old quick, but it works. The whole possible love story felt a bit like "One Hundred Days" only with Daniel.

And how come the SGC wasn't in cahoots that Daniel was missing for so long? Usually the team would be rushing around like mad trying to get him back, no matter what the cost. I can't see O'Neill just sitting on his thumbs like he was either. I half expected to see him out in the field with SG-1. Maybe I'm getting my hopes up too much. I understand what's going on outside of the show so that makes his absence a little easier to swallow -- the key words here being "a little."

Teal'c's hair -- I dunno. It's just odd seeing him with it. And after the little "mini beard" thing he had during the 4th season -- why was that gold and his hair is now black? I mean it looks good -- looks great. I'm just a little hinky about change. That's life, at least that's what they tell me.

So, final thoughts of "Icon." Good, not great. Maybe flashbacks weren't the best way to go -- but for time constraints, okay, I'll buy it. The elevator things they had were really cool -- though I can see myself getting sick in one if you can see the rotation inside. The sets were well done -- nice old house and I loved the outside landscapes. To have wooden rail fences like that -- weew -- lots a work. No horses on that farm! Overall, I'll keep the episode on tape. Makes me wish there was a time and place to submit pitches for an episode before the end though. There were a few good one liners -- and it's good to see Carter in command at last. And is it just me or has Michael Shanks added like 5 inches to his arms since season 7?

acdj31
August 7th, 2004, 01:05 PM
The ep. was okay. I wished that Daniel was more involved with the two governments of the planet. When he was standing in the bunker listening to the two commanders talk, I was thinking why is he just standing there. I thought he wanted to help, maybe be a neutral third party. I did like it how Daniel used code words when talking to Earth and when he decided to take down Soren. I guess after 8 years he is part scientist, part military man.

I like how Jack stayed somewhat clam and Teal'c got angry, when the team was talking to Soren. Wished that there was more concern for Daniel back on Earth.

:o

brihana25
August 7th, 2004, 01:25 PM
Once again, I am surprised at how people react to the Daniel/Leda thing. Sexual attraction? I'm wondering if I missed something, because I honestly saw nothing of the sort... :S

Simple Florence Nightengale syndrome - nothing more, nothing less.

She has been nursing him for six weeks (give or take), washing him, feeding him, treating his wounds, no doubt southing him through pain... and all the while not knowing if her husband were even still alive to come home.

Daniel was lying there for six weeks, blind, alone, most probably terrified, and all he *knew* was the feeling of her hands and the sound of her voice. He didn't remember how he'd even gotten there. The *only* human interaction he had was with her.

There was absolutely no way they could come out of that without feeling *something* for each other, appropriate or not. It's psychology and human nature.

Above and beyond that, they both knew that nothing would or could come of it. He wasn't staying on the planet, and she was married. They both had their priorities straight.

And if in the middle of the madness that was her world at war with itself, people being murdered in the streets for believing the wrong thing, they managed to find some peace and solace in each other's company, so what?

They didn't love each other - not even close. Jared (or Jarrett - whatever his name was) asked her point-blank if she loved Daniel, and all she said was that she trusted him. That they felt connected to each other on a deeper level than normal is human, and I don't see anything wrong with it.

Actually, the complexity of their relationship (right down to Jared stopping Daniel from running upstairs to help her - that was *such* a Daniel moment) is part of what made the episode enjoyable for me.

I thought it was nice to see a deep, realistic, platonic connection between two characters. It's nice to know that the writers don't *always* have to have people making mooney-eyes at each other to convey that they care for each other.

DarkQuee1
August 7th, 2004, 01:44 PM
I feel like Urgo right now: B-o-o-o-r-i-n-g. <<g>> This was one dull episode. Taking out the commercials, we had about 40 minutes of talking heads--with no one seeming particularly intense about anything--and two minutes of shooting, and then it was over. Wow.

Like too many eps since the start of season 7, it went nowhere and it didn't make any point we haven't already seen. Yes, our arrival can, either physically or culturally, have an effect on a planet (Red Sky, New Ground, Emancipation, Learning Curve, One False Step. And so on, and so on...). We've already seen that; nothing new there.

And we've done the "SG-1 member stuck on planet moves in with lonely farmhousewife" before. Only, I thought that "100 Days" did it better (same three months, too!). (I *do* agree with the poster who commented on the kitchen. I thought it was a lovely kitchen/dining room set up! Queer Eye for Offworld? <<g>>)

And nothing was really accomplished at the end. Jared (was that his name?) says that it's all over. Huh? The entire country--what is still standing, anyway--is in the hands of the religious fanatics. Merely taking over the bunker and killing Soren is not going to change that. (I was glad to see that the writers at least recognized the fact that this could just do nothing but create a martyr.) This is likely just going to increase their fanaticism. The war to regain control has just begun and no victory is really in sight at this time. That's why Daniel's (I think it was Daniel who said it) comment that we will honor our promise to help them rebuild is useless--at least for now. They aren't ready to rebuild. They still have to beat the people who control the rest of the country and that's going to be a long hard slog. And I don't see us any more willing to send these guys arms than Soren.

(Well, it should be, anyway. OTOH, judging from the people in the bunker, maybe they'll all roll over and play dead. What kind of religious fanatics are these? Usually, they're right up front about dying for their cause, because they're sure it will get them into heaven. They need to spend some time here on Earth. *We* know how to do religious fanaticism right! ;)

And are we going to help the Caledonians, too? I didn't notice any offers there. Which was unfair of us.

DJ was OK in this ep, but they didn't really give him anything much to do. Except for shooting a gun at the end, he was more bystander and observer than anything else. Interestingly, Daniel did not even suggest trying to talk to Soren or his people in the bunker. Recognizing finally that talking isn't always a valid option?

As for the issue raised in the show: I don't think it's our fault. All we did was step through the gate; we did nothing else to affect the climate on that planet. Which means that that culture was balanced on a knife edge to begin with and any number of things could have sent it over, up to and including freaky weather. Plus, we just happened to be the first, but there's no reason why some other peoples, including the Goa'uld, could not have come through the gate. If we are going to continue to use the gate and meet new people, we always run the risk that we will shake things up merely by showing up.


All in all, it's maybe a 2 or 3 out of 10.


J.

Elwe Singollo
August 7th, 2004, 01:52 PM
I thougth there was a good amount of action, but i don't know... Me have to watch it again :)

TheKatGoddess
August 7th, 2004, 01:56 PM
I think for me this is going to be one of those episodes I'll watch over and over again for Daniel, but... even though I've spent all this time talking about what I didn't like about it... I'll watch it again. And whoever mentioned the Squirelly joke - that was funny and I forgot about that!

Florence Nightingale makes a LOT of sense. This is time for me to SHUT UP and just LIKE the episode already.

Elwe Singollo
August 7th, 2004, 02:08 PM
Did anyone else think the city view looked like Kelowna's city view, except it was kind of in rubble, haha... Maybe not, but just a thought :rolleyes:

Newbie
August 7th, 2004, 02:12 PM
it was a pretty cool city...but when they showed the overhead...all the building looks so random..like all those buildings are from of 50 different nations. They were all different styles. Now look at any American city...eveything is qubic. Tool downtown, small outside the city...just...that city didn't look right.

CyberKnight
August 7th, 2004, 03:53 PM
I kept waiting for the berets and bad french accents of the French Resistance....and can we ever have any other allusion to bad guys other than Nazi type???
Nope wasn't a Nazi guy as far as I could tell. He reminded me more of Bin Laden.

And how come the SGC wasn't in cahoots that Daniel was missing for so long? Usually the team would be rushing around like mad trying to get him back, no matter what the cost. I can't see O'Neill just sitting on his thumbs like he was either. I half expected to see him out in the field with SG-1. Maybe I'm getting my hopes up too much. I understand what's going on outside of the show so that makes his absence a little easier to swallow -- the key words here being "a little."
Ummm... cause if they triedd something they would be shot before even getting out of the gate room. Remember there was about fifty armed guys with guns in the same complex.

AgentX
August 7th, 2004, 04:00 PM
I thought he was more of a religionist Stalin.

ana
August 7th, 2004, 04:11 PM
I thougth there was a good amount of action, but i don't know... Me have to watch it again :)


This is exactly how I feel. :(
ana

Elwe Singollo
August 7th, 2004, 04:14 PM
It would be nice to have a every other scene with fighting action with guns and everything, but i'm one of those people who want an equal amount, although this episode obviously didnt :rolleyes:, it was good enough for me.

Ugly Pig
August 7th, 2004, 05:58 PM
Just rewatched the first couple of minutes. I noticed something funny: When the stargate first opens in the museum, you can hear someone mumble "Is that part of the exhibit?"... :D

ShadowMaat
August 7th, 2004, 06:21 PM
Caught that. Great line. hehe

Was it just me or were there bullet holes in the wall behind the tourists? Might have been pockmarks. Or I need to clean my glasses again. ;)

Scarym1
August 7th, 2004, 06:34 PM
I really like this ep. I though it had a lot of great moments. That opening scene was very nice. :)

I never got the impression that Daniel had any romantic feelings for that woman. He was just being the nice, sweet guy that he always is. He was grateful for her help and kindness. He was concerned for her people and felt guilty that it was their arrival that cause the trouble. I think if I was in her shoes I would feel something for Daniel. He was being open, honest and hopeful when her whole world had just exploded. I though she was going to tell her husband that she loved Daniel but she didn't. Now that would have been too much for me. She felt afraid, confused and alone and Daniel was there for her. It didn't bother me at all. I thought it flowed naturally from the story and the characters.

Now what bothered me was that the scene where we see Daniel get injured. I thought he injuries were a bit much considering what happened. Maybe it looks worst on the TV but on my computer screen, it didn't seemed bad enough to have cause Daniel the injuries he had.

I love that Tealc is speaking more. It was great to see Jack so concerned for Daniel. Their conversation over the radio was priceless.

MadJaffa
August 7th, 2004, 06:57 PM
I thought he was more of a religionist Stalin.

To me, he seemed a mixture of three people, Stalin, Hitler, and Bin Laden.

Anthro Girl
August 7th, 2004, 07:16 PM
Just a few thoughts, probably none of them original, but I haven't read the thread yet. :)

This was one of those mostly-stand-alone episodes we get from time to time. I generally liked it, but...at best, it seemed formulaic for us "regular" fans. Maybe the casual or new viewer liked it more?

I liked the storyline. From an anthropological point of view, it's nice to see SG-1 go through the gate and really screw up and I think that's maybe what TPTB were focusing on. They aren't operating in a "prime directive" universe. The team does all sorts of things that upset the apple cart on other planets and I think we got a bigger glimpse of some of that than we've seen in the past.

Although Daniel was in it a whole lot, I didn't see a whole lot of character development. Not to say that there isn't anywhere for Daniel to go (development-wise), just that this episode isn't it. It could have just as easily been Sam going on one of her first commands and having it go totally FUBAR and I'm really glad that didn't happen.

It did seem that there was a lot going on in this episode, maybe too much. Entitled "Icon", there was little demonstration of the fanatacism of a people on the brink of war. Just a few scary words from the leader. Combined with the war, civil war, mythology-shattering appearance of people through the gate and the sidelines of Daniel's convalescence and the backstory setup...I don't know...I could follow it, but it just seemed like a bit much for 43 minutes. :cool:

I enjoyed the performances of the characters Leda and Jared, although their alienation from each other wasn't immediately evident. I loved the Goa'uld code-talk! :p For a minute there, I thought O'Neill was going to go through the Gate, but it made sense that he'd have the aliens come to him. (OTOH, the machinations of getting a fanatical believer to step through the "portal of the gods" without a little humility is a little...:confused: ) I was half hoping that O'Neill would tire of them and send Yu over for a visit. :D

I get the feeling that TPTB were trying to say more about SG-1 and their impact than I got, but all in all, it was an okay ep for me.

Anthro Girl
August 7th, 2004, 07:55 PM
From the "Do not believe all the spoilers you read" file: :D

I'm currently mostly spoiler-free this season. The most I've been reading are the one-sentence blurbs from GW and/or tv guides. Regarding early spoilers about "Icon" on GW (now that I've read them): The quote from JM is probably taken out of context. It was posted on a Japanese message/chat board in the middle of a conversation about Amaterasu and in response to someone asking if Daniel spoke Japanese and amongst a few "we love Daniel"-type statements. I believe JM meant the two statements to be considered independently, not that Daniel spoke Japanese in "Icon". ;)

Also, is anyone else irked about the SciFi promo bit for "Avatar" at the end of "Icon"?
Spoiler space for "Avatar", even though it is the only spoiler I know...










The announcer said something like "Teal'c is trapped in a video game..." :eek: My husband, 100% spoiler- and fandom-free that he is, almost upchucked his drink at that one. :p "A video game???" he said. I said, "No, it's a simulator." Saying "video game" made it sound so stupid! :mad:

brihana25
August 7th, 2004, 08:21 PM
Spoiler space for "Avatar", even though it is the only spoiler I know...










The announcer said something like "Teal'c is trapped in a video game..." :eek: My husband, 100% spoiler- and fandom-free that he is, almost upchucked his drink at that one. :p "A video game???" he said. I said, "No, it's a simulator." Saying "video game" made it sound so stupid! :mad:

More spoiler space for Avatar, just to be safe...















"Trapped in a video game and running out of lives..." is what he says.

My husband must have repeated that line a dozen times in the next half hour. He was laughing his head off at it.

NightGloom
August 7th, 2004, 09:16 PM
Spoilerness for Avatar
















Yup, "Trapped in a video game and running out of lives" is what he says... cause I've been banging my head off the wall since the announcer said it. See, unfortunately, Icon is the first episode I got one of my friends to watch of Stargate (actually, I kinda begged her to let me watch it) and she liked the episode, until the preview for Avatar came on which she laughed hysterically at and is now not planning to Stargate ever again. Oh well, it's easier to hook people on older episodes anyway, I'll try that.

norriski
August 7th, 2004, 10:38 PM
OK, here's a question adn one that's been bugging me for a while, and was really evident in ICON (which as I said earlier I really liked the ep) but what bugs me is that through this episode (all times after the "war") Daniel never had his glasses yet never showed any issues with his vision. Like when Leda takes the wrap off of his eys, he is able to see clearly (at least that what it looks like)...this isn't the first time they do this, Daniel often ends up without his glasses or just takes them off and he never seems to have problems with seeing....so I'm wondering what is his vision problem, are they basically just reading glasses that he use to wearing all the time.....

Elwe Singollo
August 7th, 2004, 11:26 PM
I think maybe he just forgot them, haha... But i never really payed much attention to that.

Erik Pasternak
August 7th, 2004, 11:28 PM
I noticed that too norriski, my guess is that he just dealt with it, his vision probably isn't too bad.

Elwe Singollo
August 7th, 2004, 11:31 PM
I mean maybe if he even brought his glasses in his bag or something, i think it would have been destroyed or something.

Im_just_guessing
August 8th, 2004, 12:09 AM
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isnt this the first episode with an off world gate that has a moving inner ring?

I freaked out when I saw that.

Elwe Singollo
August 8th, 2004, 12:20 AM
Yah, we had a little discussion about that, i think it is, i was mistaken before that it wasn't though :S

Erik Pasternak
August 8th, 2004, 12:33 AM
Yah, we had a little discussion about that, i think it is, i was mistaken before that it wasn't though :S
Yeah, you were. And remind me, who is it that corrected you?

Elwe Singollo
August 8th, 2004, 01:22 AM
If i can remember you did? I don't know, i said i was unsure, so i can't be corrected for something that i wasn't sure about :D

Erik Pasternak
August 8th, 2004, 01:50 AM
You did say you were unsure, so we'll just say that "I provided the correct information." I'm not trying to gloat or anything, by the way, I'm just having a little fun.

Anthro Girl
August 8th, 2004, 03:02 AM
Daniel often ends up without his glasses or just takes them off and he never seems to have problems with seeing....so I'm wondering what is his vision problem, are they basically just reading glasses that he use to wearing all the time.....
Technically, they're fake. ;) That said, they're also thin, so you could argue that his vision isn't so bad. :D

Anthro Girl
August 8th, 2004, 03:06 AM
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isnt this the first episode with an off world gate that has a moving inner ring?
There is a discussion earlier in the thread, but I can't remember ever seeing a spinning off-world gate. Not that I'm the expert or anything. ;) I do remember that one of TPTB said in a commentary in S4 that the reason the off-world gates don't spin is because the location prop doesn't spin. :D I guess if the shot is right these days, they can do it with CGI.

Osiris
August 8th, 2004, 04:42 AM
There is a discussion earlier in the thread, but I can't remember ever seeing a spinning off-world gate. Not that I'm the expert or anything. ;) I do remember that one of TPTB said in a commentary in S4 that the reason the off-world gates don't spin is because the location prop doesn't spin. :D I guess if the shot is right these days, they can do it with CGI.

Maybe it moves because the gate isn't connected to a dhd?

One more question about the first picture in gateworld's episode guide for Icon: of which scenes is it taken??? Did I miss something in the episode? Or was the scene cut? :S

http://www.gateworld.net/sg1/s8/graphics/805_02.jpg

jyh
August 8th, 2004, 05:23 AM
It certainly did have overtones of WWII (French resistance, French countryside), and Cold War antagonism between the two countries who distrust each other. And certainly the hard-line fundamentalist viewpoint we see in certain countries today. It was sort of a mish-mash of concepts, which was interesting.

A couple of items which I didn't see on this thread.

- I think the "scenery" of the cityscape was pretty cheesy. I know it's not easy to create a real-looking backdrop on that scale, and it's not a vital part of the show, but I've seen them do it better in the past.

- I too liked seeing Carter in charge. She did very well. You go, girl!

- Why couldn't Leda be a 50-year old woman with a few extra pounds on her, or bad teeth? That would have been real, too. And the Daniel/Leda thing could have been a wonderful caretaker/patient or even sister/brother type of affection. I'm tired of having residents of these planets fall for members of SG-1, and in this case, it was just way too predictable. (And in my case, I didn't think Daniel felt anything for Leda, but he knew she was falling for him, so he tried to be gentle w/ her. I do think they should have shown her giving a good-luck kiss to her hubby at the end when they were going 'off to war.')

- Unlike others, I don't have a problem with episodes that don't include Goa'uld. It's a big galaxy out there, and there are lots of planets that don't have the snaky-things on them. So from time to time we have to deal with other issues.

- When Daniel was broadcasting his message to the SGC, why did he bother to use code? Even if the enemy intercepted the message, could they have stopped it from going thru the Gate? It's in the airwaves, how do you stop it? It would be like trying to stop a scent in the air. I thought the danger was in signals being scrambled, but that would scramble ALL messages, not just his. I just thought that was a bit overdramatic.

Most importantly....

- Where was the DHD on that planet? How did SG-1 get back home???

DarkQuee1
August 8th, 2004, 05:40 AM
It would be nice to have a every other scene with fighting action with guns and everything, but i'm one of those people who want an equal amount, although this episode obviously didnt :rolleyes:, it was good enough for me.


I agree that "talking" can be very dramatic, if done right. The problem was, it *wasn't* done right here, everyone was just having a walk in the park; it lacked "drama". And I got the same feel here as in New Order, where no one seemed very intense about the search for Jack; no one seemed particularly intense or driven about Daniel, either.

Maybe they read the script and knew we'd find him? ;)

J.
PS In "platonic" relationships (as one post mentioned), you keep your hands to yourself.

taupecat
August 8th, 2004, 06:02 AM
- When Daniel was broadcasting his message to the SGC, why did he bother to use code? Even if the enemy intercepted the message, could they have stopped it from going thru the Gate? It's in the airwaves, how do you stop it? It would be like trying to stop a scent in the air. I thought the danger was in signals being scrambled, but that would scramble ALL messages, not just his. I just thought that was a bit overdramatic.[/i]

It wasn't about stopping the message, it was about Soran's people knowing their plans if the message was intercepted.


- Where was the DHD on that planet? How did SG-1 get back home???

When SG-1 arrives and they start walking away from the gate, you can kinda see it in the back corner. But yeah, if you blinked, you missed it and I thought the same thing at first.

Jelmer
August 8th, 2004, 06:05 AM
- When Daniel was broadcasting his message to the SGC, why did he bother to use code? Even if the enemy intercepted the message, could they have stopped it from going thru the Gate? It's in the airwaves, how do you stop it? It would be like trying to stop a scent in the air. I thought the danger was in signals being scrambled, but that would scramble ALL messages, not just his. I just thought that was a bit overdramatic.
A very simple reason: Ambushing your enemy doesn't work if they know you're coming. They weren't expecting an attack from both the outside and the Stargate and that's a big part of the reason why it worked, otherwise there would at least have been way more friendly losses.


- Where was the DHD on that planet? How did SG-1 get back home???
Naquada generator & manual dialing? Or simply local electricity and manual dialing... There are a couple of other ways aside from DHD's to dial the Stargate. And since we didn't actually see anyone dialing we have no idea which they used, it probably wasn't important enough to spent any of the already very limited 43 minutes on.

keshou
August 8th, 2004, 06:10 AM
The flashbacks. I've seen several comments that it was confusing, or took you out of the story or whatever. I'm kinda surprised at this too, as I had no such problems when I was watching. The flashbacks were conviniently labeled with "Three Months Ago", "Two Months Ago" etc. so I don't see how it could be cunfusing. Wasn't "taken out of the story", either - I wanted to see what had happened. Didn't you guys ever see Godfather 2? :D
You know I don't remember the labeling of "Three Months Ago" or "Two Months Ago" appearing on the screen. I had closed-captioning on and I wonder if that covered up the timeline labels.

Jelmer
August 8th, 2004, 06:14 AM
When SG-1 arrives and they start walking away from the gate, you can kinda see it in the back corner. But yeah, if you blinked, you missed it and I thought the same thing at first.
We were answering at the same time :D I just took another look an there's indeed a DHD shaped thing in the background, but what I'm wondering right now is why no one ever tried pushing any of its buttons... That should have given them at least a clue that there's more to the Stargate than just something decorative for the gods. And if it was depleted, as far as I know earth isn't (yet?) capable of recharging a DHD so that couldn't be the reason.

The only thing that I can think of would be that the SGC instructed them what to look for but that still leaves to many questions about for instance why it wasn't stored with the Stargate as the simbols matched. A weak plot point in the episode maybe...?

jyh
August 8th, 2004, 06:38 AM
It wasn't about stopping the message, it was about Soran's people knowing their plans if the message was intercepted.



When SG-1 arrives and they start walking away from the gate, you can kinda see it in the back corner. But yeah, if you blinked, you missed it and I thought the same thing at first.


To Jelmer & Taupecat-- OK, makes sense I guess. But I didn't think the bad guys knew the message was meant to go through the stargate. It sounds like they didn't have it guarded very well in the bunker or else they would have taken steps to disable it (temporarily at least-- they'd have to enable it again so their 'gods' could come through). Anyway, if they didn't take the stargate into consideration, they wouldn't understand the battle plans and would still have been caught off guard.

As for the DHD, you're right, I guess I blinked and missed it. I just remember an episode in an early year of SG-1 when their was general panic because they got to a world and there wasn't a DHD. I guess that's one of the functions of the MALP- to locate a DHD so that SG teams will know they have a way to get home.


;)

Anthro Girl
August 8th, 2004, 09:23 AM
You know I don't remember the labeling of "Three Months Ago" or "Two Months Ago" appearing on the screen. I had closed-captioning on and I wonder if that covered up the timeline labels.
Could be. Even though SciFi broadcasts in widescreen with little black bars top/bottom, the labels "Two Months Ago" etc. appear on the image itself so it could have been covered by captioning. I don't use captioning and even I missed some of the labels. ;)

ShadowMaat
August 8th, 2004, 09:51 AM
I have CC on and I occasionally noticed the "three months later" or whatever it was thing, but unless you're looking directly at the screen when it appears, you're gonna miss it. I don't think it added a lot, anyway. Even WITH the time jump warning it didn't help to clarify what was happening and the ep still seemed very disjointed and hard to follow.

Teal'c
August 8th, 2004, 10:40 AM
I think it's time with set up an intervention with little Damian... :P

"Now, we all know you like to write it, but we think you need to drop the romance stories... remember the good old days of comedy?"

Might work :P

gwangung
August 8th, 2004, 11:00 AM
I have CC on and I occasionally noticed the "three months later" or whatever it was thing, but unless you're looking directly at the screen when it appears, you're gonna miss it. I don't think it added a lot, anyway. Even WITH the time jump warning it didn't help to clarify what was happening and the ep still seemed very disjointed and hard to follow.

*sigh* And here I thought they were totally unnecessary....

Ugly Pig
August 8th, 2004, 11:15 AM
I have CC on and I occasionally noticed the "three months later" or whatever it was thing, but unless you're looking directly at the screen when it appears, you're gonna miss it.
And why wouldn't you be looking at the screen? It's not a radio program, ya know. :p

ShadowMaat
August 8th, 2004, 11:20 AM
And why wouldn't you be looking at the screen? It's not a radio program, ya know. :p
Because the ep was very boring and my attention kept wandering. :P

Anthro Girl
August 8th, 2004, 11:37 AM
*sigh* And here I thought they were totally unnecessary....
I noticed the "three months earlier", but missed the "two months" one. As a result, I did have a hard time grasping exactly how long the whole ordeal was going on, but it didn't really matter. "Time passed..." is a good belief-suspending assumption. ;)

Tokraed
August 8th, 2004, 11:50 AM
The ironic thing is, I've been complaining that Stargate needs more eps where SG-1 actually manages to screw things up instead of saving the day, but when we finally get an ep with that (sort of), I don't care for it. I'll have to be more specific next time. ;)

Funny you should mention that ...

I was just telling The Spouse during this episode how a bunch of 'Gaters have posted about how interesting it would be if SG-1 came to a planet and REALLY screwed things up, how "Icon" would be that episode and how people would kvetch because TPTB finally gave it to them and it disappointed them in some way. :p


I didn't mind this episode ... well, except for that whole Daniel romance thing. That was a little tedious.

I found this interesting in the flashback storytelling/editing [much better than the flashback sequences in Atlantis' "38 Minutes], and I liked the twists with the Stargate as a tourist attraction and the Resistance fighters dressing like Nazis.

There are some people who posted that they didn't like this episode because it reminded them of the reality found on every news channel. I think this is one of their better episodes, because it did mirror not just current reality but historical reality, as well. Yes, there were some problems with the script, but the writers were trying to cover a lot in just 50 minutes. With an extra 5 minutes, I think they might've done better with the importance of Leda's relationship with her husband. It was obvious that the actress was working hard to put that across more than the Daniel infatuation.

norriski
August 8th, 2004, 12:23 PM
I didn't have any problems with the labeling, and actually the time line was "labeled" three times....when the MALP arrives "Three Months Ago", when Daniel briefs the team on the planets current situation "Two Months Ago" then the last labeling was when Daniel was in the bunker adn effectively the "war" started "six weeks ago"....So it wasn't like Daniel had been there for 3 months as Jack had in 100 Days....The SGC only lost contact with him after that point and because the crazy whack job was not in charge he wasn't letting them search for Daniel....So my take on the time line is that Daniel was really only "missing" for 6 weeks and during that time he (when well enough) and the SGC were doing all they could to be reunited.

Anthro Girl
August 8th, 2004, 02:57 PM
More random thoughts to no one in particular:

I don't think "Icon" is an example of Stargate jumping on the "terrorist and religious fanatic bandwagon". Terrorists and fanatics of all kinds have been fertile fodder for television and movies for a long, long time. The label of "terrorist" does have a slightly different impact post 9/11, but that doesn't stop the entertainment industry from exploiting it.

IMO, religious zealots should always be removed from positions of governmental power...to make room for the other zealots. ;)

They obviously saved some money on this episode. They could have chosen to stage more battles and show more troop movements, armaments and such, but that all translates into $$$.

Somewhere in an earlier season, they established that they use the MALP to locate a DHD on a new planet. However, they could also bring a generator for power.

The scene of Teal'c "taking a seat" in the General's office was rewound twice for giggles. Good one! :D

It was a little hard to keep the the countries/factions straight and I kept thinking of that swing song "Caldonia...Caldonia...what makes your big head so hard!" ;) Maybe that was just my mood... :cool:

Daniel got lucky with Sha're (initially), but has ever since struck out (Linnea, Sarah). I did not get the impression that Daniel was hitting on Leda; Leda was helping him, at the request of her husband, before she was put in a position of maybe caring "too much" about him. Leda and Jared have "issues", which I don't think were setup very well, but were nonetheless evident as things progressed. Someone pointed out the whole "Florence Nightingale" syndrome, which is a good point and entirely appropriate, moral issues aside. I don't expect to hold the character of Daniel Jackson up as an unflawed paragon of moral virtue himself. Besides, the dictionary defines "platonic" as "nonsexual", not "keep your hands to yourself". ;) Some people are just more touchy-feely than others.

Major Fischer
August 8th, 2004, 03:05 PM
On second viewing, I think I agree with AG about the fact that it really wasn't a romance--which made it easier to watch. i think a good example of this might be the movie One Against the Wind which features a British born French woman code named "Marie-Claire" who ran a escape line for downed allied airmen. There were similar scenes (in fact, the movie has an entirely similar feeling which made me wonder if it was a model). I think perhaps because there has been so much 'romance' in the series of late, that I was jumping on the romance bandwagen when I shouldn't have.

I do thin that it might have been made easier if they hadn't given her and Jarrad such an obviously strained marriage, but than again, as Thor says, not a perfect universe.

brihana25
August 8th, 2004, 04:51 PM
PS In "platonic" relationships (as one post mentioned), you keep your hands to yourself.

I have a platonic relationship with my best friend, but I've certainly hugged her before.

I've had platonic relationships with men that I've hugged, or pecked on the cheek, or touched on the face.

Platonic doesn't mean you don't touch each other. It means you don't have physical contact of a sexual nature.

keshou
August 8th, 2004, 05:07 PM
I have CC on and I occasionally noticed the "three months later" or whatever it was thing, but unless you're looking directly at the screen when it appears, you're gonna miss it. I don't think it added a lot, anyway. Even WITH the time jump warning it didn't help to clarify what was happening and the ep still seemed very disjointed and hard to follow.

Well put me in the group whose attention kept wandering. Mine took a long hike at one point and I started sorting and tossing out old magazines. :) Most likely why I missed the screen labels.

I generally like the flashback technique when it's used effectively (Meridian and Forever In A Day), I just didn't think it worked that well in this episode. This episode reminded me of the movie "English Patient" which I never particularly enjoyed either.

It *was* an ambitious script and on paper an interesting story. I like the ideas it tried to explore, I just never felt very emotionally involved in the story and didn't connect with Leda and Jared's plight.

Elwe Singollo
August 8th, 2004, 09:03 PM
Would you think you would have enjoyed the episode a little bit better if they changed the sequence of scenes, removing the flashback feel they tried to do?

Erik Pasternak
August 8th, 2004, 09:13 PM
Would you think you would have enjoyed the episode a little bit better if they changed the sequence of scenes, removing the flashback feel they tried to do?
I liked the whole flashback thing, so I'd keep it the same way.

epiphany
August 8th, 2004, 11:12 PM
They werent "in love" they just trusted each other.

I agree, I don't know where everyone is getting the whole "romance" thing. It was a pretty light subtext actually. When Jared asked if she loved Daniel, despite the requisite "dramatic pause", when Leda looked him straight in the eye and said "I trust him", I believed that is exactly what she felt, not "love". She knew that what she was feeling, while some people might mistake it for romantic feelings, wasn't really. Even Jared, after that, seemed to know it was more based on what he wasn't giving her than on a real romantic interest in Daniel on her part.

I actually thought "finally they are handling this sort of thing in an adult manner" as opposed to their usual adolescent way of dealing with it. Daniel, Leda and Jared all behaved very maturely about it. Leda was lonely, she and her husband had been growing apart for a few years and here she had this stranger to care for, who depended on her. When he started to get better he talked to her, he appreciated her thoughts--it was natural that she might feel something but it was never made out to be love.

In fact I thought it was pretty clear she still loved her husband and her husband still loved her and Daniel was pretty much just being his usual nice, kind self but Daniel too had been in the situation of being helpless and she had helped him, they'd talked and made a connection over their shared plight. There were some feelings there but never was it made out to be anything like "looovve". Just trust and affection that, by less mature people, could have been mistaken for something else and caused some very serious problems. Instead it was three people put into a difficult situation and actually showing a certain amount of maturity and sensitivity about it.

Damian Kindler really tried to get across some very complex feelings here and I thought the actors did a damn fine job of portraying that. I hate the romances they usually have on this show(though I like Pete and Sam together), the only reason I even liked Sha're is because she was almost never around and then she was dead. :) But I liked the way they handled this because it wasn't really made out to be a real romance or even a sexual attraction thing. It was three people who each had a complex set of emotions brought together by a very difficult situation trying to navigate through those emotions and still do the right by themselves and by everyone else too. They behaved honorably.

I was dreading this episode in alot of respects, figuring it would be a total retread of 100 Days(sorry I hated Laira, no she wasn't married but then again she was also constantly discouraging Jack from having hope that his friends would find him and then she waited quite a while before telling him about the message she'd heard on the radio:)) with some New Ground thrown in for good measure but it wasn't "just that", so it was really much better than I was expecting.

I expected a typical "romance of the week" and I was worried about whether the team's emotional connection would be shown with them being seperated but it was handled well, imo. All the team, both Daniel and his teammates at the SGC were focused on trying to make contact with each other. They trusted that each would still be trying to get in touch with the other despite the weeks that had passed. I also liked that they all had something to contribute to the story.

epiphany
August 8th, 2004, 11:25 PM
It showed that Daniel isn't necessariy a pacifist, just more of a...well, I'm not exactly sure what he is. Someone help me out here. I definitely agreed with him that those religious zealots needed to be removed from power.

Daniel was never a pacifist and I always thing it's rather unfair that people judge him by that. :) Daniel was always willing to fight if he thought there wasn't another way, if he thought there was then he'd argue about it. But Daniel helped start a rebellion on Abydos for goodness sake. He put a 36 hour armed guard on the gate when he unburied it. In this case, he'd spend a month and half learning about these people before the war broke out. He had spent some weeks trying to figure out to "fix" what SG-1's arrival had caused. Point being he had alot of information to go by and so he made the decision based on that, rather than on "lack of information".

epiphany
August 8th, 2004, 11:38 PM
Did it seem like that to anyone else? I mean, he knew that she liked him... right?

No, not when he started talking to her he didn't. He just thought they agreed on what was the right thing to do because they had talked about it before. Remember they had spent alot of time talking about this stuff, about what was happening on her world, about ways that it might be fixed.

He even said she had said this herself before, when she gave him that whole little pep talk when he was feeling down about not reaching his friends over the radio. In fact I don't think he thought of either her or his feelings in this regard UNTIL her reaction to him asking her that. The face touch seemed to me to be a totally unplanned, instinctive gesture on his part(you've got to remember in the time of his convelescence by necessity they would have been physically touching so while the it was different, the actually physical contact with each other was probably very natural feeling as opposed to the sort of little "oh we've never touched before" block that might be there otherwise. And I think as soon as he did it he seemed to realize it was not quite the right thing to do at that moment.

epiphany
August 8th, 2004, 11:44 PM
Once again, I am surprised at how people react to the Daniel/Leda thing. Sexual attraction? I'm wondering if I missed something, because I honestly saw nothing of the sort... :S

Hey I agree. I don't think the attraction was sexual at all. I didn't get any sense of sexual attraction and I don't think I was supposed to either. What there was, seemed to be purely based on neediness, Florence Nightingale Syndrome as you say.

I don't think for a minute her decisions were based on her feelings for him. It seemed to me that if anything one of the reasons she may have developed some sort of bond with him was that what he was saying agree with her own thoughts, her own hopes on the matters they were talking about. In other words, I think the feelings, whatever one wants to interpret them as, followed the thoughts as opposed to the thoughts following the feelings. That is how it came across to me.

Anthro Girl
August 8th, 2004, 11:45 PM
Would you think you would have enjoyed the episode a little bit better if they changed the sequence of scenes, removing the flashback feel they tried to do?
I don't think so. I think the flashbacks were fine...it just took me a few moments to realize how much time had passed. Like others said, sometimes it's all too easy to miss those "three months ago" captions. (Heh...and people want translations...heh...oooh, don't go there :o)

If they had done a linear story starting with the museum appearance, the briefing room scenes and then Daniel going off to "meddle" ;) I think it would have been paced all too slowly. I think starting with Daniel's injury jumpstarted the story pretty well and using the flashbacks kept it moving.

epiphany
August 8th, 2004, 11:52 PM
OK, here's a question adn one that's been bugging me for a while, and was really evident in ICON (which as I said earlier I really liked the ep) but what bugs me is that through this episode (all times after the "war") Daniel never had his glasses yet never showed any issues with his vision. Like when Leda takes the wrap off of his eys, he is able to see clearly (at least that what it looks like)...this isn't the first time they do this, Daniel often ends up without his glasses or just takes them off and he never seems to have problems with seeing....so I'm wondering what is his vision problem, are they basically just reading glasses that he use to wearing all the time.....


He was in an explosion, he obviously had some wounds around his eyes. Thus it follows his glasses were probably destroyed in the explosion. You know, unless you've got pretty bad vision, very few people actually need their glasses to just get around. For centuries they managed to do just that before glasses became widely available. Given how they've treated on the show(which is to say they've never made a big thing out of his NOT being able to see without his glasses), I think it is safe to assume he sees noticeably better with them but he can a get around all right without them. He can see the people from 30 ft, he just can't make out the writing on the t-shirts. :D

epiphany
August 8th, 2004, 11:56 PM
.

- When Daniel was broadcasting his message to the SGC, why did he bother to use code? Even if the enemy intercepted the message, could they have stopped it from going thru the Gate? It's in the airwaves, how do you stop it? It would be like trying to stop a scent in the air. I thought the danger was in signals being scrambled, but that would scramble ALL messages, not just his. I just thought that was a bit overdramatic.



Daniel was broadcasting in code(once he made contact with them) so that way if the enemy intercepted the message, they wouldn't know WHAT he was telling the SGC. They'd know he was talking to them but they wouldn't know what he was saying and if they did happen to have some knowledge of Goa'uld(though I'm sure by now he'd know that having spend 6 weeks dealing with them before the war), they wouldn't necessarily know what he meant out of context like that.

As for the DHD, I just assume it was in another room in the museum. :)

epiphany
August 8th, 2004, 11:59 PM
To Jelmer & Taupecat-- OK, makes sense I guess. But I didn't think the bad guys knew the message was meant to go through the stargate. It sounds like they didn't have it guarded very well in the bunker or else they would have taken steps to disable it (temporarily at least-- they'd have to enable it again so their 'gods' could come through). Anyway, if they didn't take the stargate into consideration, they wouldn't understand the battle plans and would still have been caught off guard.



They wouldn't disable it because it was supposed to be sacred to them. Also they really didn't know anything about the gate(in fact it is specifically said by Gareth on meeting SG-1 that they have no understanding of the technology at all), so unless SG-1 informed them that they could stop an incoming wormhole by burying it or covering it with an iris of some sort--they might have figured that out yet. :)

jyh
August 9th, 2004, 02:13 AM
They wouldn't disable it because it was supposed to be sacred to them. Also they really didn't know anything about the gate(in fact it is specifically said by Gareth on meeting SG-1 that they have no understanding of the technology at all), so unless SG-1 informed them that they could stop an incoming wormhole by burying it or covering it with an iris of some sort--they might have figured that out yet. :)



Yep, my point exactly. :cool:

ibwolf
August 9th, 2004, 02:54 AM
I really like this episode. The scene with the turists and the gate activation was hilarious. It seemed like a well thought out episode that offered an interesting story, gave us a little something to think about (without being preachy) and we still got a got action scene at the end. I think the episode bodes well for the comming season. Of course it had it's rough spots, but this is being done on a TV budget / timeframe, you can't expect it to be perfect.

Tok'Ra Hostess
August 9th, 2004, 04:17 AM
Argh! There's like 160 posts before I even got around to watching Icon(courtesy of squinty-vision :) ), so forgive me for not reading all before making my own comments.

I came away from Icon with the feeling that I'd just watched a fanfic. :)

A good fanfic, mind you, with whumped Danny, competant Sam, Teal'c, deep and dangerous, and Jack, getting right into what needed to be done. But if I'd been beta-ing I'd have suggested working on the pacing; it didn't match the gravity of the situation, IMO.

Loved seeing the Gate as a museum piece. :)

The potential for good action was mostly watered down in the scene where Saron and co. go to Leda's house. I didn't feel at any time that the guys were in danger, though I did think Leda was going to die - or worse. :(

I liked her answer. Smart lady. (BTW, she also guest stared as the archeologist in season six, Cure)

At the end, when Daniel warned that killing Sauron would make him a martyr I was unconvinced. I wanted that sick feeling - that they had just made things worse by killing Sauron - but just saying so didn't create any dread in me.

Maybe having the bunker guys, seeing their spiritual leader dead, scream some religious slogan and rush into the blazing guns of the freedom fighters would have set that stage, but Sauron pretty much proved to the frightened doubters in the bunker that his faith did not save him and wouldn't save them, either.<shrugs>

At one point when, after months they finally got word from Daniel, I did wonder why they didn't send Prometheus, but then I thought that the Prez couldn't/wouldn't authorize the expenditure for one man, and also, that the Asgard monitor every time the Prometheus uses their hyperdrive. Maybe sending Prometheus to a less-developed world engaged in a war that Earth at least helped precipitate would be frowned upon by the Asgard.

All in all, though enjoyable, I'd rate Icon as my least fav of season 8 eps, and I hope that it remains there. :)

Tok'Ra Hostess
August 9th, 2004, 04:30 AM
I've been following that conversation, but I'm not that anal retentive about it. :P For the purposes of the story, the shotguns and whatever that the locals were using were intended to be of local origin. Thus, I want to know why Sam or someone didn't give Daniel a modern weapon of Earth origin.

I is amazing what we can get hung up on, isn't it? :)

I like the fact that Daniel kept his new... old gun. It gave the feel that he was "naturalized" into the culture of that place. After all, he had been there a few months and had kind of spearheaded the resistance. The old gun in (more technologically advanced)Daniel's hands was perhaps one of the many subtle icons in Icon.

Liv
August 9th, 2004, 04:42 AM
I came away from Icon with the feeling that I'd just watched a fanfic. :)


That´s a pretty good description, actually.

furlingirl
August 9th, 2004, 07:00 AM
I think one of the problems was that while we were being told that there was great devasatation going on elsewhere, our characters were wandering around a beautiful, untouched country estate. It really took away from the feeling of peril for me. I think they needed to show more of what was going on beyond one matte painting of a ruined city.

I don't think there necessarily needed to be more battles, but we needed to see more of the effects of the war. Maybe they could have had refugees come to the estate begging for help, or at least that patrol should have ransacked the house or something. Another route might have been to nix the estate and have them hiding in underground tunnels in the city with explosions overhead - sort of a London Blitz feel.

Thorette
August 9th, 2004, 11:02 AM
I know I'm in the minority - but my thought after the show was - Well there's another Daniel show. There seem to be an awful lot of Daniel centric shows. I like him ok as a character but I'm getting tired of him being the main attraction.

Elwe Singollo
August 9th, 2004, 11:44 AM
I don't think your the minority, i bet there is a whole bunch of people who think the same as you, but are you talking about the whole show in general or S8? If your talking about S8 only, I would think this was the only heavy-Daniel episode so far, unless you count Lockdown, but i think everyone had equal parts in the episode.

aAnubiSs
August 9th, 2004, 11:46 AM
Daniel doesn't evolve anything in all the Daniel episodes. That's the problem.

Elwe Singollo
August 9th, 2004, 11:47 AM
I can do say that MS seems to play Daniel more confidentally though :)

crowhop
August 9th, 2004, 11:49 AM
S
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ish...


Granted this is a nitpick in the overall scheme of Icon's plotline, but how did the Rand soldiers understand Sam's hand signals? Is there now some Universal Book of Super Sneaky Military Stealth Hand Signals issued to all human-inhabited worlds? Admittedly, I haven't the faintest clue what all of these combat gestures mean, but I found it curious that members of an alien culture would.

Major Fischer
August 9th, 2004, 11:59 AM
Most of it was the equivelent of "You, over there!"

Elwe Singollo
August 9th, 2004, 12:00 PM
S
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l
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r
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Granted this is a nitpick in the overall scheme of Icon's plotline, but how did the Rand soldiers understand Sam's hand signals? Is there now some Universal Book of Super Sneaky Military Stealth Hand Signals issued to all human-inhabited worlds? Admittedly, I haven't the faintest clue what all of these combat gestures mean, but I found it curious that members of an alien culture would.At first i wondered about that too, but i guess since both worlds seem to have similar things, such as the guns, the buildings, bunkers, etc, maybe we have to assume they knew the hand signals? But i guess they went over the signals before or something, haha, i don't know.

Anthro Girl
August 9th, 2004, 12:37 PM
Most of it was the equivelent of "You, over there!"
I understand that some of the military/combat hand signals can get quite elaborate, but the ones I saw in "Icon" were the kind my dog could (and does) understand. :p If they were playing baseball with the alien soldiers, I think there would have been more serious hand signal problems. :D

Shipperahoy
August 9th, 2004, 12:48 PM
I thought is was a pretty good episode. It did seem sort of slow in places and I'm with Denise in having WWII movie flashbacks and expecting the French Resistance to come along and start saying things like "Vive la Rand Protectorate!" in truly horrendous French accents. But I still enjoyd the episode nonetheless. I was sort of iffy on the whole Daniel/Leda (married woman) angle but they didn't really do anything with it so it was o.k. I want to live in that house where Daniel was recovering though. What a beautiful home.

It's nice and yet odd at the same time to see General Jack in action being way more cautious then he would have been if he'd still been a Colonel. I like his and Daniel's hallway conversation. Anyway it's next weeks episode that I'm worried about. The Gamekeeper episode is probably my least favorite Stargate episode ever so I'm hoping that it's not even remotely similiar.

joshing123
August 9th, 2004, 01:45 PM
I think Icon belongs in the “episodes that failed” thread. It was a good idea, but in order to truly be a good episode, it just needed to be longer.

Because of the lack of time (and probably money):
-we didn't get to know the rebel leader before he took over,
-we never really got to feel the tension (or understand why there was tension) between the two countries,
-we never saw any of the devastation (the only "survivors" we saw seemed to be doing just fine),
-we never saw SG1's dealings w/any of the political leaders until the end.

Plus I found it unrealistic that the rebel leader’s little group would stop fighting just because he shot one person when it seemed they should have been more fanatical given they're basically supposed to be religious zealots. Sure they said others were coming onto their side to save themselves, but I doubt they were in his inner circle.

Also, I didn't like how quick the end was. I mean come on, if we were willing to go in fighting anyway, why did we wait for that very small band of former soldiers!? And then they just shoo us away. Thanks, bye!

The episode had a lot of potential, but just couldn't quite pull it together.

Kanten
August 10th, 2004, 06:35 AM
My take on all the followers' refusal to fight was more of a "It's over and we don't want to get ourselves killed for nothing." situation than quitting because their leader killed someone. Soren's final speech made it somewhat obvious that there was no other reason to fight than to simply die. This was just my observation, this particular situation could be seen a lot of different ways.

joshing123
August 10th, 2004, 08:17 AM
My take on all the followers' refusal to fight was more of a "It's over and we don't want to get ourselves killed for nothing." situation than quitting because their leader killed someone. Soren's final speech made it somewhat obvious that there was no other reason to fight than to simply die. This was just my observation, this particular situation could be seen a lot of different ways.

It could be either, but if they were real take-over-the-world-fanatic-types as they were made out to be, neither reason would be enough for them to just give up.

Thorette
August 10th, 2004, 10:23 AM
I don't think your the minority, i bet there is a whole bunch of people who think the same as you, but are you talking about the whole show in general or S8? If your talking about S8 only, I would think this was the only heavy-Daniel episode so far, unless you count Lockdown, but i think everyone had equal parts in the episode.

I was refering to all seasons, excepting the one with Jonas, sorry for not being more specific. (As you can see, I'm relatively new at posting.) It just seems to me that he gets more shows revolving around him than the others.

chevron57
August 10th, 2004, 10:52 AM
spoilers
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<<Because of the lack of time (and probably money):
-we didn't get to know the rebel leader before he took over,
-we never really got to feel the tension (or understand why there was tension) between the two countries,
-we never saw any of the devastation (the only "survivors" we saw seemed to be doing just fine),
-we never saw SG1's dealings w/any of the political leaders until the end>>.

Great points here and in other posts helping me figure out what wasn't so great about this episode, other than the obvious, transparent, alien "lonely housewife" theme as an earlier post had it.

I'd love to have had more time with this alien Oliver Cromwell and really develop him as a baddie. My immediate reaction also was: why don't Jack and Teal'c try harder to persuade him the Go'auld are scary vicious parasites? They have plenty of video that would do the trick! (Not that I wanted this to be a clip episode.) The ring-bearers obviously had an idyllic view of the "gods" and no real knowledge of who/what they were. Be careful what you wish for... The effort along those lines was weak at best, although I realize, as Teal'c said, it wasn't a matter of faith but of power.

Thanks to those who spotted a DHD (which I still haven't) -- that bothered me and it's annoying to have to brush it off with, oh maybe they did this or that, manual or naquadah, etc. And the hand signal thing bothered me a little, although it was pretty evident what Sam was indicating. I prefer a minimum of jarring details like that.

Thanks all.

ComicDiva
August 10th, 2004, 11:08 AM
Everything I feel about the episode has been expressed already except for:

Daniel pretty. Daniel very pretty. :) :p

Elwe Singollo
August 10th, 2004, 11:09 AM
I was refering to all seasons, excepting the one with Jonas, sorry for not being more specific. (As you can see, I'm relatively new at posting.) It just seems to me that he gets more shows revolving around him than the others.Oh- i understand now :) Thanks for telling me haha...

ComicDiva
August 10th, 2004, 11:18 AM
I was refering to all seasons, excepting the one with Jonas, sorry for not being more specific. (As you can see, I'm relatively new at posting.) It just seems to me that he gets more shows revolving around him than the others.

I don't think so... I think there's definetely been more episodes about Jack or Teal'c then about Daniel specifically. Even Carter had her chance to shine, but I don't think MS is hogging all the spotlight or anything. Not that he doesn't deserve it. :D
j/k

Elwe Singollo
August 10th, 2004, 11:19 AM
Imo, Jack has have more 'Jack Episodes' then the others, well maybe not, but he does get an episode all about him, and hardly the other characters or something, like Paradise Lost, Abyss, The Fifth Race, etc.

Jonisa
August 10th, 2004, 02:15 PM
I know I'm in the minority - but my thought after the show was - Well there's another Daniel show. There seem to be an awful lot of Daniel centric shows. I like him ok as a character but I'm getting tired of him being the main attraction.

It's all a matter of perspective, I suppose. While I was watching I was thinking how nice it was to have a Daniel-centric episode after the run of Sam-centered episodes at the end of Season 7. (Nothing against Sam, I like the character, but she was featured heavily at the end of last year, sort of like Daniel was in the beginning of S7.) I was even more excited to see that it looks like Teal'c may be the center of attention this coming Friday, if previews are anything to go by. :) I know there are Sam-centered episodes coming up, and we just had one all about Jack.

Anyway, if someone would take the time to look at the seasons, (not going to be me, as it doesn't matter that much) I think they've done a pretty good job of dividing up episodes about individual characters and giving us ensemble episodes. If someone's personal favorite isn't in the spotlight, give it a week or two and that character will get a chance to shine.

Yu Huang Shang Ti
August 10th, 2004, 09:43 PM
I still can't believe they let the rebel leader have full diplomatic courtesy while at the SGC. We've held System Lords prisoner on three occasions and Jack personally chose to kill Alar (the Nazi-esque leader from "The Other Side") rather than take him prisoner, but nobody wanted to do anything at all about zealot-boy Kane when he was right there in the facility.

I can only think of two reasons for this:

a) They didn't want to screw up the nation any more than they already had with an armed invasion, even if to take out a fanatical dictatorship. Seems unlikely, since they were just fine with an armed coup after a quick chat with Daniel.

b) They didn't want to make Kane a martyr or otherwise provoke the zealots. Again, seems unlikely as during the coup, they certainly would've shot him if he turned his gun on them. Even if not, whether loyalists or SGC personnel captured him would have created the same situation as if they took him prisoner right there in the SGC.

As we well know, the SGC has no prime directive preventing them from interfering, and this is one of the few situations where intervention could be fairly easily justified. It just disappointed me that the possibility was never even acknowledged.

ibwolf
August 11th, 2004, 03:59 AM
I still can't believe they let the rebel leader have full diplomatic courtesy while at the SGC. We've held System Lords prisoner on three occasions and Jack personally chose to kill Alar (the Nazi-esque leader from "The Other Side") rather than take him prisoner, but nobody wanted to do anything at all about zealot-boy Kane when he was right there in the facility.

I can only think of two reasons for this:

a) They didn't want to screw up the nation any more than they already had with an armed invasion, even if to take out a fanatical dictatorship. Seems unlikely, since they were just fine with an armed coup after a quick chat with Daniel.

Well, for all they knew Daniel could have dead (making an attack pointless) or captive (meaning an attack would surely get him killed). Once they knew Daniel was safe and in contact with 'the resistance' things changed.


b) They didn't want to make Kane a martyr or otherwise provoke the zealots. Again, seems unlikely as during the coup, they certainly would've shot him if he turned his gun on them. Even if not, whether loyalists or SGC personnel captured him would have created the same situation as if they took him prisoner right there in the SGC.

As we well know, the SGC has no prime directive preventing them from interfering, and this is one of the few situations where intervention could be fairly easily justified. It just disappointed me that the possibility was never even acknowledged.

They didn't take Kane prisoner when he visited the SGC for the same reasons the didn't attack. Once his regime was effectively overthrown having him in custody would probably be better then having him a martyr. In either case it would create trouble.

Bobthespirit
August 12th, 2004, 02:10 PM
I read a Gateworld thing about how the producers, in considering whether or not to renew Stargate SG1 to season nine, were worried about beating a dead horse, and considered maybe wanting to go out strong.

I don't know what they're talking about. The show isn't getting repeatetive. I mean, they've never done an episode of SG1 before where SG1's arrival on a new planet caused civil unrest because of religious schisms. Except of course for New Ground. ..And Memento.

Bobthespirit
August 12th, 2004, 02:17 PM
Oh, and the reason they showed the bad guy diplomatic courtesy is that they were trying to talk him into forking Daniel over.

Killing a leader doesn't necessarily decapitate a movement. It would have resulted in more violence, and if Daniel were their captive it would have resulted in Daniel's killing.

Replicarter
August 15th, 2004, 02:03 AM
http://www.alphawebspace.com/~karl/GWPT.gif

Total crap, just as bad as season 7's birthright.

http://www.alphawebspace.com/~karl/GWPB.gif

Ugly Pig
August 15th, 2004, 11:01 AM
Total crap, just as bad as season 7's birthright.
You know, for everyone who didn't think 'Birthright' was bad, that is not going to mean anything... :)

Dani347
August 22nd, 2004, 05:55 PM
I liked this episode. Team working together to find one of their own, and one of their own never giving up hope, and using what he knows about Jaffa battle techniques (which I assume he studied with Teal'c) and linguistics to send a message. Had Jack showing concern. So, I haven't read the whole thread but just putting in my opinion that there's at least one (maybe more?) who liked this episode.

And, I didn't see it as romance between Leda and Daniel. She wasn't in love with Daniel, she was just lonely because Jared had become distant. She was just responding to Daniel as a nice person that she could talk to. I don't think there was any love or sexual attraction (besides noticing that Daniel's one good looking man)

LMichelle
September 3rd, 2004, 07:52 PM
I agree it wasn't a romance between Leda and Daniel. Her husband was away and she had become lonely and taking care of Daniel filled that void in her life. There might have been a small attraction. I mean, he was shirtless in bed and Leda is a woman. ;)

Seriously, when Daniel talks to her outside and he reaches out to touch her face, she pulls away, instead saying she would talk with her husband. He also wants to say good-bye to her, but she rebuffs his efforts towards the end of the episode.


Lisa Michelle

Livi2Jack
September 4th, 2004, 05:06 PM
I liked Birthright. It was rather original, especially in the sci fi universe. Could have done without Jack's crude remark requiring a power bar to shut him up.

NightGloom
September 4th, 2004, 06:27 PM
I thought this episode was OK the first time I saw it, but then I fell asleep watching it last night. Maybe it's just because I saw it only a few weeks ago, although it was pretty confusing the first with all of the random flashback things.

aschen
September 10th, 2004, 09:58 AM
Anything was better than "Avatar." This wasn't bad at all.

Crazedwraith
November 2nd, 2004, 01:14 PM
Excellant episode. Liked Daniel (not in THAT way, i'm a bloke and not a slasher) liked Jack and most of all I liked teal'c firing a P-90 one-handed. Did any one else want to see him just walk round the corner and mow everyone down with a P-90 in each hand while the fundies old-fashioned rifle bullets just smacked into his kevlar? I wonder why he no longer uses his staff.

shelsfc
November 2nd, 2004, 01:47 PM
I was thinking from the spoilers "Oh good, a planet of the week episode, I've missed those..."
It reminded me of sort of a cross between The Other Side, New Ground and any episode involving politics on Kelowna...

Good episode, but very serious.
A little disturbing to think that could happen just by going through the gate - or that something like that could happen here....
It was different to see 'our heroes' causing such devestation. I mean they've shown SG1 getting it wrong before, but they've managed to fix it, or if not, it's never been quite on this scale before.

The Daniel/Leda/Jared love triangle....okay, so it wasn't exactly a love triangle, but it did feel a little bit soap-ish. There was a moment or two that it felt a bit like Pearl Harbor...but I love that film, so I don't mind that!

Actually, this episode could have been a film if it wasn't part of a tv series, if that makes sense. There was a lot going on, and a lot of different levels of the story, IMHO the plot would make a good film.

And as a bonus for this episode...wasn't Daniel looking fine! :D

Terok
November 3rd, 2004, 05:31 AM
An interesting episode, it dealt with a serious theme but I feel it needed to be longer to expand on some elements of the plot. There was a large scale war going on yet there was just no feeling as to how big it was, and in the end given that Sorens forces were occupying the city, Daniel and the other troops seemed to have no problem just walking into the city and the main command center.

Major Clanger
November 3rd, 2004, 06:10 AM
Absolutely disliked this ep. It reminded me of others, which is not good (The Other Side handled this sort of conflict much better, New Ground is ok in a similar vein...)

I kept expecting the "resistance" guys to go up to the grannie's bedroom only to have her shout "ze nobs, zey are flashink" (only viewers of 'Allo 'Allo will get that one) and for a girl in a beret and trenchcoat to say "I shall say zis only once"

All in all it was pretty predictable. I'd preferred to have discovered that the religious fundamentalists were in the right, or that he was a goa'uld or something, anything other than the blandness we got.

Just as well Atlantis is on right afterwards...

Albion
November 3rd, 2004, 07:27 AM
I first saw this one from a dl net file and wasn't sure about it. So reserved judgement until I saw it last night in a slightly more detailed/clearer to watch format, in case my disappointment with it was more because of the crappy quality first time around, than anything else.

Not sure my opinion changed much. It was an okay episode. Daniel looked very cute and it was nice to see him have a lot of screen time. I just wish it could have been doing something a little more exciting and meaningful than standing around listening to people threaten one another or walking around talking politics in almost every scene.

As I think someone else said already, there were just too many scenes all the same for me - most of the planet scenes were boring and I felt no sense of moving forward or momentum as we progressed through the episode, no sense of pace or timing, no buildup to a climax or conclusion. It was very weirdly paced. Like a collection of scenes and then a very flat ending as though someone just got bored and thought, "Okay, let's end it here then, can't be bothered doing anything else with it."

There were moments I enjoyed. The 'squirrely' walk and talk with Daniel and Jack. The very subtle character interaction in the scene where Carter and Teal'c come back through the gate to tell Jack they've got nowhere with Soren. The very nice moment when the team came through the gate and Daniel took a moment to glance at Sam, waiting for her nod of permission, before answering one of the alien's questions. I thought that was a rather nice touch from MS. And some others here and there. But not enough to keep my interest or make this an episode I'll revisit frequently.

And I found the whole WWII atmosphere very weird. Where did those aliens get all those Earth weapons? And the whole French resistance riff - prepetuated by the clothing everyone wore - was very strange and off putting.

All in all - one of the duds this season for me, despite some nice moments. New Ground isn't a favourite episode either, but I think it dealt with the themes in this one a whole lot better and after watching Icon, I'm growing more fond of it!


Seriously, when Daniel talks to her outside and he reaches out to touch her face, she pulls away, instead saying she would talk with her husband.

Of course, playing devil's advocate, she doesn't exactly rush to disagree when hubby asks her if she's in love with Daniel. Personally, I found this strand of the plot just unnecessary and it just got in the way. Again, it seemed to have little coherence as we progressed through the episode, and didn't really seem to say anything important about the characters. And I agree with previous posters who long for this kind of episode (and not just in Stargate to be fair) to have a man and a woman meeting and cooperating together for a higher cause without one having a crush on the other. Please? Just once a little originality? Would be nice. I mean it is possible for a woman to nurse a wounded man back to health without her hormones driving her to distraction. No matter how hot he is with his shirt off. :p

Admittedly - playing devil's advocate in the other direction now - I think Daniel might just be an exception to that rule. He is very, very hot, after all. I think, personally, I'd just let my hormones run wild and to hell with it. :D

Albion :)

Madeleine
November 3rd, 2004, 08:48 PM
I liked this one. It was thoughtful. It's about time we saw SG-1 having a negative effect on one of the societies they touch. It's something that's often brushed under the carpet. Remember Memento? "I believe in and follow the old gods," "They weren't really gods," "Oh. Want to look at my books?" That bugged me no end; so it's nice to have an acknowledgement that when SG-1 turn people's beliefs upside down there are ramifications. Even so I think to an extent it was a cop-out; I'd have liked more to see a story where SG-1 were really the cause of civil unrest rather than just the straw that breaks the camel's back.

Jack's approach to diplomacy is typically Jackish. It's interesting this season to watch him having to be the one who bites his tougue and makes friendly with the visiting dignitaries. There are edges in his voice that we who know him will pick up but that would be missed by new characters, and in Icon Teal'c is taking up some of the slack in terms of being directly critical in these sorts of negotiations.

The house in the country was beautiful, and the city design was good, but other than that I was disappointed with the design of the episode. Woudn't it be good to meet a reasonably-close-in-technological-development world where everything *isn't* just like America? Still, when the story's as decent as Icon it's easier to look past extraneous stuff like that. Cough*SpaceRacewasdire*cough

Good to see the team going offworld again. And I liked the preamble where the malp came through.

I agree that it's a bit of a cliche for the woman to get mushy over the man she's nursing back to health. But at least it was low key - no declarations of undying passion, thank goodness. I think the saving grace is that the woman *knew* it was a crush rather than True Love.

The OCs were okay (which for me is high praise for an OC). It had a nice Team feel, even though the team was split. Jack, Sam and Teal'c interacted well, and - wheeee! - seemed appropriately concerned and upset that one of their friends was missing.

Anubis
November 3rd, 2004, 11:13 PM
Icon. I didn't think the beginning caught my interest that much, so I didn't pay much detailed attention to this episode as I would have others, but a second-time watching might help. ;)


Daniel was pretty decent in the episode, a lot of focus based around him, which is a good thing sinc we don't see him on the spot that often. The planet seemed fine to begin with, but a civil war? I think that might have been a bit farfetched, but understandable.


Not an amazing episode, but good enough. :D

Matt G
November 4th, 2004, 06:53 AM
Eventually getting round to checking this ep out!

Basically, break off a chunk of New Ground and a chunk of 100 days, drizzle in a bit of Meridian(the place looked like it had similar tech to Kelowna) and mix! I've seen worse but this comes from shake n bake school of writing!

It was a laugh seeing the MALP heading towards the tourists. Would have been an even bigger laugh had one of Soren's men just shot him at the end.

SeaBee
November 7th, 2004, 05:46 AM
Oh dear, the idea for this ep was ok, but all in all, a nothing episode.

Why such a mix of weapons?

The good guys are using carbines, WW1 from the look of them, the bad guys are using russian AK47s and pump action shotguns and their leader has a pistol that looked like something Buck Rodgers would have carried.

What was the timescale?

Daniel in one scene looks like he used his face to stop a lawnmower blade, a couple of cuts later and his face is unmarked, not even a hint of a scar.

Major Fischer
November 7th, 2004, 10:38 AM
Actually, the good guys were using M1 Garands. Aside from the flare gun that the head bad guy had, virtually all the weapons fell within a 15 year time range.

M1, PPS, PPsH, AK-47.

SeaBee
November 8th, 2004, 03:23 AM
Actually, the good guys were using M1 Garands. Aside from the flare gun that the head bad guy had, virtually all the weapons fell within a 15 year time range.

M1, PPS, PPsH, AK-47.
Thanks MF, the good guys guns were bugging me no end.

:D

david2708
November 18th, 2004, 08:26 PM
The ads were more interesting, I'm afraid. I was bored by the whole thing.

jckfan55
November 23rd, 2004, 04:32 PM
I kept expecting the "resistance" guys to go up to the grannie's bedroom only to have her shout "ze nobs, zey are flashink" (only viewers of 'Allo 'Allo will get that one) and for a girl in a beret and trenchcoat to say "I shall say zis only once"



Ha! Were Soren's guys in leather trench coats? that would have made it perfect. I thought it was only an ok episode.

ApophisOfTheStargateRealm
April 17th, 2005, 09:14 PM
i just saw icon and i have to say it was a bit confusing but it was a cool idea though!

Stricken
May 26th, 2005, 04:43 AM
i just saw icon and i have to say it was a bit confusing but it was a cool idea though!

took the words right out of my mouth

SilverRider
August 21st, 2005, 12:11 AM
Bah! This ep had me hooked, I was looking soooooooo forward to a showdown and what I get a lame ending....Kane shoots Soran. Bah! Lame!

melpomene
November 5th, 2005, 08:52 PM
I surprised myself by actually liking it. It wasn't a grand and glorious shoot em up, but it was good drama. I thought the religious-fanatic-who-worships-goa'uld is a little overused (reffering to 'New Ground' and other eps where the Goa'uld haven't actually been seen) But one could argue that's what the shows about.
-I found Daniel's use of Goa'uld as code intelligent, I thought tha flashbacks gave it a good energy and didn't find them jarring or confusing at all. It suited the episode.
-I liked the drama of Sam/Jack/Teal'c's search and concern for him, and I liked the scene where Jack snaps at Sam. Because it really showed his frustration at his helplessness in the loss of his friend.
-I found the ending interesting because they have absolutely no qualm's of turning the tide of this civil war. And they didn't re-use the 'moral dillemma' from 'The Other Side' but they left the thought there for anyone to notice. Along with Kane shooting Soren when he didn't really have to. They didn't torture the point to death, but acknowledged it.
-I liked the show of brotherhood in battle between Daniel and Kane and the fact that it didn't revolve around Kane's wife.
-And last but not least...It was worth it just to see a woman attracted to Daniel who wasn't a simpering coniving anoying little twirp. Leda had guts, she was brave -hiding the men in the basement and facing a group of armed and ruthless men on her own- And she didn't make a play for Daniel. She was honest about her feelings but she wasn't all, "Take me with you Daniel! Please, please please!" she let him go very gracefully. She was mature, which I think showed a step in Daniel's growing up.

cafine_us
November 7th, 2005, 10:47 AM
-And last but not least...It was worth it just to see a woman attracted to Daniel who wasn't a simpering coniving anoying little twirp. Leda had guts, she was brave -hiding the men in the basement and facing a group of armed and ruthless men on her own- And she didn't make a play for Daniel. She was honest about her feelings but she wasn't all, "Take me with you Daniel! Please, please please!" she let him go very gracefully. She was mature, which I think showed a step in Daniel's growing up.
Perhaps it was nice to see a more mature woman like Daniel, but I really would prefer to see a woman introduced in the story that didn't automatically become the love interest for one of the major characters. A woman who is independent and truly loyal to her significant other would have been ideal. It seemed Leda began as that type of character, but I groaned when her husband asked if she had feelings for Daniel.

timdalton007
November 7th, 2005, 11:11 AM
I surprised myself by actually liking it. It wasn't a grand and glorious shoot em up, but it was good drama. I thought the religious-fanatic-who-worships-goa'uld is a little overused (reffering to 'New Ground' and other eps where the Goa'uld haven't actually been seen) But one could argue that's what the shows about.
-I found Daniel's use of Goa'uld as code intelligent, I thought tha flashbacks gave it a good energy and didn't find them jarring or confusing at all. It suited the episode.
-I liked the drama of Sam/Jack/Teal'c's search and concern for him, and I liked the scene where Jack snaps at Sam. Because it really showed his frustration at his helplessness in the loss of his friend.
-I found the ending interesting because they have absolutely no qualm's of turning the tide of this civil war. And they didn't re-use the 'moral dillemma' from 'The Other Side' but they left the thought there for anyone to notice. Along with Kane shooting Soren when he didn't really have to. They didn't torture the point to death, but acknowledged it.
-I liked the show of brotherhood in battle between Daniel and Kane and the fact that it didn't revolve around Kane's wife.
-And last but not least...It was worth it just to see a woman attracted to Daniel who wasn't a simpering coniving anoying little twirp. Leda had guts, she was brave -hiding the men in the basement and facing a group of armed and ruthless men on her own- And she didn't make a play for Daniel. She was honest about her feelings but she wasn't all, "Take me with you Daniel! Please, please please!" she let him go very gracefully. She was mature, which I think showed a step in Daniel's growing up.

This says everything I was going to say.

timdalton007

Darkstar
November 8th, 2005, 10:12 AM
i do like stand alone episode and the idea was great but something was lacking in it and i cannot think what it was!?:S

melpomene
November 9th, 2005, 08:57 PM
Perhaps it was nice to see a more mature woman like Daniel, but I really would prefer to see a woman introduced in the story that didn't automatically become the love interest for one of the major characters. A woman who is independent and truly loyal to her significant other would have been ideal. It seemed Leda began as that type of character, but I groaned when her husband asked if she had feelings for Daniel.


Sure she had feelings for Daniel, my point was she didn't wallow in them. I'm not saying it's a good thing she had these emotions, which is a form of infidelity I suppose. But she seemed to regret this and I believe had a strong attachment and loyalty to her husband. I think the entire episode was an exploration of human strengths and frailties and the choices they make. Both in the small and larger issues of life.

And while I see your point about the perpetual love-interest thing, I think they've done rather well in that regard. I mean looking back, the characters rarely have more than one real love-interest a season. (Not counting season 8 which I've dubbed "The Year of Infidelity") That's really not a bad record for a TV show I don't think.

VF1SValkyrie
February 23rd, 2006, 03:39 PM
Please excuse me if this question has been asked before; I looked through the pages on this episode, and can't find a reference to it.

Does anyone know who does the voice of Treydan in this episode? I swear I've heard his voice before, but I can't quite place it (I keep thinking of the anime Gundam, but I don't know why).

I've checked here and also several places (tv.com, and the IMDB, among them), but I can't find who was the voice. Any help on this would be greatly appreciated.

captain jake
May 4th, 2006, 08:01 PM
Great mission I loved the battle strategy at the end.

suse
May 14th, 2006, 08:23 PM
I thoufht this episode was one of the most boring of the whole series. Well-acted, at least, but <yawn>. Though its sequel in S9 (Ethon)was probably the best of the season. Go figure.

I tihnk what was missing from the ep was the stargate. Twas hardly used, IIRC.

Suse

captain jake
May 15th, 2006, 08:31 AM
What do you mean the entire episode was based around the stargate???

walter_MacChevron
June 16th, 2006, 12:05 PM
I love these off world episodes..........did they actually say the anem of the planet in the episode......on the DVD it says the planet's name was something like Tegalus, and if it was said, then where?

captain jake
June 17th, 2006, 11:31 PM
I don't remember where they said it exactly but i remember that the name of the planet is tegalus.

I know for a fact they mentioned it in ethon.

Admiral Mappalazarou
August 25th, 2006, 04:27 AM
I thought that this ep was okay, not brilliant, but not disastrous either.

It had it's moments.

Two_L's
August 3rd, 2007, 06:59 AM
Loved seeing Carter in charge, and being in charge as a soldier. She looked more comfortable this time than in the brief scene in Zero Hour. They did the military tactics in the take over of the base really well. It seemed quite belieable to me.

Even though I wish Jack was still on the team and in command, seeing Carter in charge was awesome. :) Her giving orders and directions was nicely shot.


Ok everytime I heard the name Saron (sp?) and all that I was like...suddenly expecting a litle Hobbit to pop out with a Ring. I swear, i could not get that out of my head!

Lol! Being a huge Lord of the Rings fan, I also had the same problem. :p


Teal'c just plopping down in Jack's office had me laughing :)

I loved the look Jack gave Teal'c after that, it was hilarious. Also liked the "squigly" (sp?) lines between Jack and Daniel. :D

Overall, while not one of the best episodes, I thought the story and acting was good and what I expect from a solid Sg-1 ep. :)

EarthandBeyond
December 16th, 2007, 03:47 AM
I am surprised O'niell did not arrested Soran and his men, when they came to talk to Earth.
He had a mad man, or basickly a terrorist in his hands and he simply lated him go.

Mefusta
December 16th, 2007, 04:32 AM
I am surprised O'niell did not arrested Soran and his men, when they came to talk to Earth.
He had a mad man, or basickly a terrorist in his hands and he simply lated him go.It wasn't their right nor was it within their authority to arrest him. He was at the SGC in a capacity as a head of state, and therefore would have had diplomatic immunity from any kind of prosecution. Moreso, arresting him would have only complicated the already tenuous situation back on his homeworld at a time when they needed it as stable as possible. A society breaking at the seams under a tyrannical madman is still better than total anarchy, we only need to look at some places on Earth right now to see that.

The fact of the matter is that sometimes the right thing to do is to just mind your own business. Bide your time for when it is appropriate to act, and then and only then is it time to act with everything you can muster.

Hornet
March 31st, 2009, 08:55 AM
after watching this episode, i realize how much I miss seeing Jack in action with SG1. Its just weird.

Anyway the episode is not bad, best part is probably the action in the end

vzzzzzbx
June 24th, 2009, 05:41 PM
After a good start to season 8, this was a distinctly average episode.

mrscopterdoc
March 29th, 2010, 07:38 PM
Not a bad episode. I liked it even if not my favorite.

rushy
April 26th, 2010, 07:24 AM
OMG! This is officially the most boring episode I have ever seen. Previous was: None.

maneth
November 4th, 2010, 09:18 AM
Not one of the greats, but I loved seeing Daniel without the glasses.

Ulkesh47
November 5th, 2010, 11:15 AM
The flashbacks in this episode, tiny bits of "Zero Hour" and the very beginning of "It's Good to be King" are literally the only times in the entire season that we simply see SG-1 the three-person unit on missions...

jelgate
November 5th, 2010, 12:12 PM
The flashbacks in this episode, tiny bits of "Zero Hour" and the very beginning of "It's Good to be King" are literally the only times in the entire season that we simply see SG-1 the three-person unit on missions...
This is one of the reasons I find S8 to be the weakest season of SG1

Ulkesh47
November 5th, 2010, 12:45 PM
This is one of the reasons I find S8 to be the weakest season of SG1
I find the lack of team episodes quite annoying, but if I crunch the numbers, I find that S8 is my second favorite SG1 season. :eek:

It's probably due to the gems such as "Zero Hour", "Avatar", "Prometheus Unbound", "Citizen Joe" (laugh if you will), and "Threads".

I hated "Affinity" and "Sacrifices", though...

jelgate
November 5th, 2010, 01:17 PM
I find the lack of team episodes quite annoying, but if I crunch the numbers, I find that S8 is my second favorite SG1 season. :eek:

It's probably due to the gems such as "Zero Hour", "Avatar", "Prometheus Unbound", "Citizen Joe" (laugh if you will), and "Threads".

I hated "Affinity" and "Sacrifices", though...

Citizen Joe? Really? I find it one of SG1s worst.

maxerwin
May 13th, 2011, 03:07 PM
I just rewatched this episode. I remember enjoying it quite a bit when I saw it the first time, but it did not hold up on this round through.

I enjoyed the idea of a religious cold war, but it wasn't carried out so well.

Dave2
December 29th, 2011, 02:45 PM
If SGC could only communicate with Daniel if the stargate on the planet was open, then how did his radio communication get through if the rebels weren't operating the stargate??

jelgate
December 29th, 2011, 03:25 PM
Um because the Stargate was active:S

Dave2
December 30th, 2011, 08:20 AM
Now I remember that the rebels initiated an unscheduled incoming wormhole to visit the SGC.
But I don't remember that anyone was continually activating the address to or from the planet.


Um because the Stargate was active:S