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P-90_177
July 3rd, 2006, 03:20 AM
Did this actually hapen in a episode or story line. I've never seen an episode featureing it. If so what episode was it?

The Signal
July 3rd, 2006, 06:41 AM
No, it is set between the last 8th Doctor novel and the revival, some think it ended right before the begining of the new series.

Metarock Sam
July 3rd, 2006, 07:56 AM
well at the beginning of Rose the doctor is commenting on his features in a mirror suggesting he hasnt seen this before and has regenerated quite recently. And people ask well what a bout being at the kennedy assasination or at Krakatoa ? well since we know that the Doctor and Rose had alot of untelivised adventures perhaps we can suggest that Rose took the photos or drew the drawings.

Flyboy
July 3rd, 2006, 03:21 PM
However, there was a picture of the Doctor with a family that should have been on the titanic, and then in The End of The World he mentions that he'd been on that ship once before...

White Knight
July 4th, 2006, 01:41 AM
Remember at the end of 'Rose'? When the Doctor asked Rose to come with him, she said no, the TARDIS left and then arrived back again a few seconds later where the Doctor then told her that the TARDIS could travel in time as well?

Think about it. ;)

Wraith Scientist
July 4th, 2006, 02:40 AM
Hmm ... interesting thought. He could have been gone years

Yeah, the time war was a war between the Time Lords and the Daleks. There are clues to what happened:

"A thousand Dalek ships on fire, the end of the last great time war"
"You lie!"
"I saw it happen. I made it happen!"
"What of the Time Lords"
"They burnt with you"

And the Beast called the Doctor "The killer of his own kind"

richardf
July 5th, 2006, 02:26 AM
OK so we know that in the 'TV series' sequence if events, it happened sometime between the TV film and the 2005 new series, and that it is likely that the Doctor regenerated shortly afterwards, but what do we know about the Time War (or Wars)?

How did it start, what were the course of events leading to the destruction of Galifrey and the Daleks, what was the Doctors role in it and how did he survive? More Importantly WHEN did it happen in the universal timeline (in relation to Earth history) or did it not happen 'when' at all (somehow 'out of time' itself). If it happened 'when' then it poses the question that in certain time periods Galifrey and the timelords still exist (thus cannot strictly be 'destroyed' like the Doc says). Ie there is a time before and a time afterwards.

Of course it could have happened 'out of time', so both combatants were destroyed all through time (therefore making it impossible to go back to a time when the timelords and daleks existed) - though if that was true then they, incuding the Doctor would never have existed! Clearly this is not the case (am I making sense?)

No I recon the War Happened at some point in time, thus why the Daleks anfd the Doctor manaded to survive. It also makes it possible other timelords may also have survived, and that galifrey still exists (in the past).

Of course this may be complete nonsense but without more detail of what happened (and wiith a patchy knowledge of the Doc's past), this is my best interpretation (without thinking too much about Time and giving myself a headache!).

Does anyone reckon that the time war would make a good subject for a prequel miniseries or film? If done properly of course.

burn out
July 5th, 2006, 05:07 AM
yes it would be fantastic with paul mcgan as the doctor again!

Metarock Sam
July 5th, 2006, 05:09 AM
Well according To RTD it was the Timelords who started it way back in Genesis of the Daleks, where after forseeing a time where the Dalek race would become the Dominant race in the universe the Timelords dispatched the Doctor to either wipe out the Daleks or alter their evoloution so that they became less agressive creatures.

burn out
July 5th, 2006, 03:53 PM
Well according To RTD it was the Timelords who started it way back in Genesis of the Daleks, where after forseeing a time where the Dalek race would become the Dominant race in the universe the Timelords dispatched the Doctor to either wipe out the Daleks or alter their evoloution so that they became less agressive creatures.

hang on, wasn't that a plot from the failed american version of DW?

Deputy-Assistant-Second-Prime
July 5th, 2006, 05:27 PM
hang on, wasn't that a plot from the failed american version of DW?Yes, but many of the stories planned for that failed series were actually rip-offs from the original series that ran from 1963 to 1989.

Thank goodness they never produced those rip-offs.
I've read the summaries and they couldn't even write decent rip-offs based on the classics from the original series.

Genesis of the Daleks was a story from Season 12 (1975), starring Tom Baker (as the fourth Doctor).
It is considered one of the best and is available on DVD (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000EMG918/qid=1152149371/sr=11-1/ref=sr_11_1/002-6741938-7632803?n=130).

IMForeman
July 5th, 2006, 05:41 PM
However, there was a picture of the Doctor with a family that should have been on the titanic, and then in The End of The World he mentions that he'd been on that ship once before...

I get the impression his encounter with the Daniels family and the Titanic was right after the regeneration. He's wearing clothing in that picture that is very reminscent of the Eighth Doctor's clothing.

Doc 9 in Doc 8 finery. (http://www.bbc.co.uk/doctorwho/gallery/doctor9/800/11.jpg)

P-90_177
July 6th, 2006, 12:20 AM
Fair point. Anway thanks. That helps. I hope in that case they go to see the time war then. Maybe go back and try and stop it wipeing out the timelords 'The Three Doctors' style with Paul McGan, Christopher Eccleston and David Tennant. It would be so cool and funny.

Mr.Clark
July 6th, 2006, 11:26 AM
I hope in that case they go to see the time war then. Maybe go back and try and stop it wipeing out the timelords 'The Three Doctors' style with Paul McGan, Christopher Eccleston and David Tennant. It would be so cool and funny.
Man, that would be awesome.

I doubt Paul McGann would be willing, since they didn't take his option up on being the Doctor, but it would be fantastic if they did... :D

BC - 303
July 7th, 2006, 04:39 AM
is it possible that Doctor who, TV movie happened in a interval in the time war.
Because the Master was heald trail on Skarro, and the Daleks let his remains be taken, and the doctor listened to the Daleks and picked up his enermys remains from another enermy.
mabey this was a pocket of peace time in the time war, before the Daleks launched a suprise invasion

richardf
July 7th, 2006, 05:29 AM
I did some research on books about the time war. I found one (cant remember the title) set just after the destruction of galifrey. Apparently a traitor on gallifrey led to its destruction, and then escaped to Earth. The theme of the book was the doctors search for the traitor.

This traitor theory would make sense. galifrey was supposed to have impressive defences. It would need someone working 'inside', to bring down these defences and allow the daleks to destroy the planet. Unless of course dalek technology had advanced so much the defences were no match for their weapons at this point.

Still like to see/hear/read more about the war though.

The Signal
July 7th, 2006, 06:57 AM
Except for the fact that there is nothing about the Time War. The only thing you may have read is one of the last Eighth Doctor novels, and at that time both Skaro and Gallfrey had been destroyed in unrelated circumstances, that is all prior to the Time war, meaning if the novels are to be considered canon, both planets, and indeed the Time Lords (who were all but wiped out) must have been revived only to be destroyed again by the war.

EDIT: That was it, the Doctor destroyed Gallifrey and downloaded the "Matrix" into his mind, preserving it and the Time Lords place in time.

Flyboy
July 8th, 2006, 02:33 PM
I get the impression his encounter with the Daniels family and the Titanic was right after the regeneration. He's wearing clothing in that picture that is very reminscent of the Eighth Doctor's clothing.

Doc 9 in Doc 8 finery. (http://www.bbc.co.uk/doctorwho/gallery/doctor9/800/11.jpg)
I disagree. I recall that the original trailers for Rose showed the Doctor running downa long corridor being followed by flames. I always assumed that was him escaping from the inferno of Galligry being destroyed... I thought he must have regenerated before or during the time war...

Deputy-Assistant-Second-Prime
July 8th, 2006, 02:37 PM
I disagree. I recall that the original trailers for Rose showed the Doctor running downa long corridor being followed by flames. I always assumed that was him escaping from the inferno of Galligry being destroyed... I thought he must have regenerated before or during the time war...I believe that was a cut scene from the beginning of Rose.

Doctor Who, Season 27: Rose
When he blows up the department store.

Flyboy
July 8th, 2006, 02:40 PM
*sigh*

I can dream...

Deputy-Assistant-Second-Prime
July 8th, 2006, 02:44 PM
*sigh*

I can dream...Sorry to burst your bubble. :o

Metarock Sam
July 9th, 2006, 05:50 AM
well fingers crossed it gets explained better in series 3.

Pitry
July 19th, 2006, 03:31 AM
Ah, I was really wondering about that (the whole Time War thingie, as a person who never got the chance to watch the original Doctor Who). Let's hope they'd refer to it some more - it seemed to be the central theme of Eccleston's Doctor, but Tennant's Doctor seem to be emphasising other things
other than the reference in School Reuinion - although when I watched the episode I got the impression it followed when he left Sarah Jane? I guess not. and Doomsday, of course, referring the "the Fall of Arcadia" and "fighting on the front line". *muses*

The Signal
July 20th, 2006, 07:01 AM
The Doctor left Sarah Jane as he was called home to Gallifrey as part of the Masters plan to get a new set of regenrations, Sarah had to be left behind as humans were not allowed to travel to Gallifrey at the time (IIRC). This had nothing to do with the Time War, which, from the Doctor's point of view, happened hundreds of years later.

wise one
July 20th, 2006, 10:15 AM
i read somewhere in wikipedia that the time war cosist of weapon of time,e.g. missile that when hit would create a time bubble around the ship and would be held in time.and other stuff i forgot about.

plus if 10 million ship destroyed in 1 second mentioned by the doctor in 'dalek'

it wouldnt be much of a war init?

The Signal
July 20th, 2006, 11:32 AM
That (the 10 million ships burning)was the conclusion of the war, not the whole thing, we have yet to see anything of it, but I would imagine that one of the last battles was at Arcadia, which has something to do with Daleks (from a novel, someone help me out here! :)) so the Time Lords must have won there, but with great costr, was it the final battleground, and if so, does it still exist, and will we ever see the Doctor go there?

Cam_Mitchell
July 21st, 2006, 11:46 PM
I did some research on books about the time war. I found one (cant remember the title) set just after the destruction of galifrey. Apparently a traitor on gallifrey led to its destruction, and then escaped to Earth. The theme of the book was the doctors search for the traitor.

This traitor theory would make sense. galifrey was supposed to have impressive defences. It would need someone working 'inside', to bring down these defences and allow the daleks to destroy the planet. Unless of course dalek technology had advanced so much the defences were no match for their weapons at this point.

Still like to see/hear/read more about the war though.

Wait you dont think the traitor is the Docter we know?
that would explain why he is soo sensetive towards the time war and never answers questions about it andddd why he never visits the time war era!

burn out
July 23rd, 2006, 04:29 PM
Wait you dont think the traitor is the Docter we know?
that would explain why he is soo sensetive towards the time war and never answers questions about it andddd why he never visits the time war era!

"and still the traitor survives" - dalek to the doctor in the episod titled dalek
so maybe you're right.

Buba uognarf
July 25th, 2006, 12:09 PM
the reason the doctor never goes back to stop the time war is because if you watch the episode'fathers day' trying to change the timeline could cause more harm than good...the doctor a traiter thats an absurd idea i'm sorry

BC - 303
July 26th, 2006, 06:12 AM
"I saw it happen, i MADE it happen, 2000 Dalek ships all in flames"
"and what off the time lords"
"They burned with you, the last great battle of the time war, everyone lost"

Gregorius
July 26th, 2006, 06:24 AM
"and still the traitor survives" - dalek to the doctor in the episod titled dalek
so maybe you're right.

iirc it was "And the coward survived"

AyanEva
July 26th, 2006, 10:13 AM
but I would imagine that one of the last battles was at Arcadia, which has something to do with Daleks (from a novel, someone help me out here! :)) so the Time Lords must have won there, but with great costr, was it the final battleground, and if so, does it still exist, and will we ever see the Doctor go there?

*de-lurks for a moment*

Or not. It was in either Army of Ghosts or Doomsday where the Doctor says, "I was there when Arcadia fell. One day I might be able to live with that." Based on that, I'd assumed that the Time Lords lost and that led to the Doctor being forced to do whatever it was that he did.


AyanEva

The Signal
July 26th, 2006, 10:26 AM
Or not. It was in either Army of Ghosts or Doomsday where the Doctor says, "I was there when Arcadia fell. One day I might be able to live with that." Based on that, I'd assumed that the Time Lords lost and that led to the Doctor being forced to do whatever it was that he did.

Maybe, or maybe the Doctor did what he did there, on Arcadia. Despite the Time Lords being all but wiped out, I saw it as a victory, as, despite it all, they did prevent the Daleks from getting a firm grip on the Universe, even if they didnt wipe them out. Its all down to interpretation really.

creed462
July 26th, 2006, 10:41 AM
Maybe, or maybe the Doctor did what he did there, on Arcadia. Despite the Time Lords being all but wiped out, I saw it as a victory, as, despite it all, they did prevent the Daleks from getting a firm grip on the Universe, even if they didnt wipe them out. Its all down to interpretation really.
A victory at an extreme cost will still be seen as a defeat

IMForeman
July 26th, 2006, 06:18 PM
"I saw it happen, i MADE it happen, 2000 Dalek ships all in flames"
"and what off the time lords"
"They burned with you, the last great battle of the time war, everyone lost"

Pedant mode: I believe the number was 10,000,000 Dalek ships.

End Pedant mode.

The Signal
July 27th, 2006, 06:07 AM
A victory at an extreme cost will still be seen as a defeat
Not if the goal of the Time Lords was achieved.

AyanEva
July 27th, 2006, 09:52 AM
*crawls out once more*

Because I mentioned it, I have to ask... Does anyone know what the heck Arcadia actually is? Is it given a mention in any of the books? A city, planet, region of space, or something totally abstract and completely unexpected like maybe a person or ship?

As for whether Arcadia counts as a win or loss, the Doctor used the phrase "We lost." at some point in season 1. It was a victory but a loss at the same time, not either/or. I really do think that the Time Lords as a collective force had basically lost when Arcadia (whatever it is) fell but the Doctor stepped in and did whatever it was that he did and won the war by himself.

It's kinda like if an army falls but one crazy dude suddenly comes running up with a super-weapon and blasts both sides to kingdom come in order to ensure that the enemy still loses, even though the enemy initally won. So, crazy dude's side still loses the war but the enemy loses the war too and the only one who actually wins anything is the crazy dude. That's assuming that he doesn't do himself in with the super-weapon too. In the Doctor's case, he managed to not do himself in, even if it was by accident. I did notice that he totally avoided the question of how he lived when he was asked in season 2.

Gah. The point of all of that was to say that I don't think the Time Lords as a whole achieved their goal but the Doctor as an individual did achieve his goal. Then again, I suppose you could count the Doctor as a representative of the whole and based on that, you could say that the Time Lords did achieve their goal but not as they had intended and not as a collective army. Depends on how you look at it, I suppose.



AyanEva

The Signal
July 27th, 2006, 10:22 AM
*crawls out once more*

Because I mentioned it, I have to ask... Does anyone know what the heck Arcadia actually is? Is it given a mention in any of the books? A city, planet, region of space, or something totally abstract and completely unexpected like maybe a person or ship?
Its a planet, or at least it was in one of the books.


As for whether Arcadia counts as a win or loss, the Doctor used the phrase "We lost." at some point in season 1. It was a victory but a loss at the same time, not either/or. I really do think that the Time Lords as a collective force had basically lost when Arcadia (whatever it is) fell but the Doctor stepped in and did whatever it was that he did and won the war by himself.

It was implied that the Time Lords as well as the Daleks were wiped out because of the Doctor's actions. If they were alive at the time it seems unlikely that he would act without orders from whoever was leading the Time Lords (I presume that that person was Romana)


It's kinda like if an army falls but one crazy dude suddenly comes running up with a super-weapon and blasts both sides to kingdom come in order to ensure that the enemy still loses, even though the enemy initally won. So, crazy dude's side still loses the war but the enemy loses the war too and the only one who actually wins anything is the crazy dude. Again, this is really only true if "crazy dude" was acting on his own, following the deaths of everyone else. Had he been acting on orders from a commanding officer, then he was acting on the behalf of his army, and therefore, they would be the victors.


That's assuming that he doesn't do himself in with the super-weapon too. In the Doctor's case, he managed to not do himself in, even if it was by accident.

Unlikely that he would survive by accident, if he was acting on any sort of Time Lord orders they would most likely have a contingency plan in case of any Dalek survivors (which as we now know, there were some), therefore it seems unlikely that they would wipe themselves out without anyone to fight back just in case, and seeing as the Doctor is feared by the Daleks (The "Oncoming Storm") he would be an obvious choice to survive in case any more fighting is needed.


Gah. The point of all of that was to say that I don't think the Time Lords as a whole achieved their goal but the Doctor as an individual did achieve his goal. Then again, I suppose you could count the Doctor as a representative of the whole and based on that, you could say that the Time Lords did achieve their goal but not as they had intended and not as a collective army. Depends on how you look at it, I suppose.

THAT I can agree on. :)

"The Time Lords

AyanEva
July 27th, 2006, 12:30 PM
Thanks for the Arcadia info! I'd hate to see what that poor planet looked like after all was said and done. That's assuming that there was even a planet left.

I started writing a response with the intent to continue politely disagreeing, but the more I think about it, the more I prefer your idea over mine. Your idea is more tidy than mine and it better explains the idea that the Doctor didn't survive by choice. It also makes more sense that he would act on orders instead of taking it upon himself to make such a weighty decision. I'm kind of reminded of the whole fourth Doctor with the Daleks and how the Time Lords sent him back to destroy the Daleks but he was having doubts about the morality of it all at the last minute. I hadn't thought of the Doctor's behavior in that particular situation in quite this way before. I can totally see why the ninth Doctor hated the Daleks so much, since their incessant "exterminate" crap made it necessary to fight them in the first place.

(*muses to self about off-topic things* Daleks and Cybermen...Extermalete. Delerminate.)

*thinks some more* Oooh, I really like your idea better than mine.

You win. :D Could you just imagine getting an order like, "Oh crap! Looks like we're about to lose. Hey, would you mind enacting Plan This Totally Sucks now and destroying your entire species so that the Daleks don't overrun the universe? Angst? Eh, oh yeah. I hadn't thought of that, really. Well, I'm sure you'll deal just fine eventually. Hop to it, chin up!"

But really, did the whole freakin' planet have to go? They couldn't just blow up an armada or two?

ETA: I'm not doing a very good job of lurking anymore, am I?


AyanEva

IMForeman
July 27th, 2006, 05:02 PM
Its a planet, or at least it was in one of the books.


"Deceit" by Peter Darvill-Evans (http://www.gallifreyone.com/file.php?id=na-13) to be precise.

-IMF

The Signal
July 28th, 2006, 03:39 AM
Could you just imagine getting an order like, "Oh crap! Looks like we're about to lose. Hey, would you mind enacting Plan This Totally Sucks now and destroying your entire species so that the Daleks don't overrun the universe? Angst? Eh, oh yeah. I hadn't thought of that, really. Well, I'm sure you'll deal just fine eventually. Hop to it, chin up!"

Kinda makes it easier to understand the Ninth and Tenth Doctor's personalities really, doing what he (supposedly) did is one thing, but being ordered to do it, ordered to wipe out your people, your family, for a greater cause, knowing that you will have to live on afterwards, now THAT is something entirely different. It really shows in the Doctor, more so in "School Reunion" than any others (possibly "Dalek") which is why I love that episode. I won't go into deatails (spoilers) but for those that saw it, what he considered doing, even for that instant, shows us what the Doctor has become.

AyanEva
July 28th, 2006, 06:43 AM
Kinda makes it easier to understand the Ninth and Tenth Doctor's personalities really, doing what he (supposedly) did is one thing, but being ordered to do it, ordered to wipe out your people, your family, for a greater cause, knowing that you will have to live on afterwards, now THAT is something entirely different. It really shows in the Doctor, more so in "School Reunion" than any others (possibly "Dalek") which is why I love that episode. I won't go into deatails (spoilers) but for those that saw it, what he considered doing, even for that instant, shows us what the Doctor has become.

Funny you should mention that- those episodes are probably my two favorites so far.

Do you think he really would've let Rose stay with him until she died? I don't and I think Rose totally called him on it.

I would love to see an episode that deals with the fact that the good Doctor really seems to be an unintentional force of destruction and pain wherever he goes, particularly in light of the Time War. I mean, he's a force for good first and foremost, but he does tend to leave quite a trail behind him. I'm sure he's noticed this by now.


AyanEva

The Signal
July 28th, 2006, 07:20 AM
They hinted at it in Boom Town, and Bad Wolf, but yes, a bit more focus would be great.

He knew deep down that one day she would leave, but he wouldnt have ever kicked her out, it had to be her choice or an unavoidable split, which is what we got.

Mr.Clark
July 28th, 2006, 02:08 PM
Not if the goal of the Time Lords was achieved.
I don't think "being wiped out while leaving Daleks behind" was their goal.

Based on the events of Doomsday, I'd say that the result of the Time War has changed to the Daleks winning.



I'm kind of reminded of the whole fourth Doctor with the Daleks and how the Time Lords sent him back to destroy the Daleks but he was having doubts about the morality of it all at the last minute. I hadn't thought of the Doctor's behavior in that particular situation in quite this way before. I can totally see why the ninth Doctor hated the Daleks so much
The War obviously changed him. If the Time Lords could have sent the ninth Doctor, I'm fairly sure he would have killed Davros and blown up the Dalek incubation room. The fourth Doctor still had too much morality. Or maybe it was mercy.

Either way, the fact he had the chance to stop them completely but didn't must make his survival of the Time War even more bitter.

The Signal
July 29th, 2006, 12:51 AM
I don't think "being wiped out while leaving Daleks behind" was their goal.
No but Im pretty sure stopping the Dalek's from having total control over Time and Space was ;)

AyanEva
July 29th, 2006, 06:26 PM
The War obviously changed him. If the Time Lords could have sent the ninth Doctor, I'm fairly sure he would have killed Davros and blown up the Dalek incubation room. The fourth Doctor still had too much morality. Or maybe it was mercy.

Since, I can't quite figure out the spoiler policy and this has to do with new Who, I'll err on the side of caution.

But when the Ninth Doctor refused to detonate the Delta Wave thingie, didn't he basically make the exact same decision as his Fourth incarnation? I think Nine had pretty much had his fill of genocide by the end of TPOW. Now the Tenth Doctor, I could totally see him hitting the button and making things go asplode without a second thought. If I were the Time Lords, I'd have wanted Ten to go back.



Based on the events of Doomsday, I'd say that the result of the Time War has changed to the Daleks winning.

My two cents (or two pence)- How can the Daleks have won if there's now only one Dalek left? I could see giving them the win somewhere around Bad Wolf/The Parting of The Ways but with the Daleks down from ten million ships, then to an Emperor's fleet, and finally to one odd little black fellow, all of this with one Time Lord still remaining, I don't see how the Daleks could be called the victors. They're progressively losing, actually and each time, the Doctor has been either directly or indirectly responsible for the continued destruction of the Daleks. Sure, the whole "destroy the Daleks" bit was supposed to be a one-off thing but the last Time Lord has continued what he started each time a straggler to the guillotine has popped up.

If the Time War was to keep the Daleks from overrunning everything, then the Time Lords succeeded in at least retarding the Daleks' efforts. Victory for the Daleks would be a total takeover and since they can't do that now, and never will be able to do that with the Doctor still around, the Daleks can't actually win.



AyanEva

Mr.Clark
August 1st, 2006, 01:52 PM
Since, I can't quite figure out the spoiler policy and this has to do with new Who, I'll err on the side of caution.Whoops. Didn't think of that...:S


But when the Ninth Doctor refused to detonate the Delta Wave thingie, didn't he basically make the exact same decision as his Fourth incarnation? I think Nine had pretty much had his fill of genocide by the end of TPOW. Now the Tenth Doctor, I could totally see him hitting the button and making things go asplode without a second thought. If I were the Time Lords, I'd have wanted Ten to go back.Actually, the reason he didn't was because the Delta wave would have killed all the humans on Earth too. That's what he couldn't do. Back on Skaro, it was just him and the room full of mutant Kaleds.




My two cents (or two pence)- How can the Daleks have won if there's now only one Dalek left? I could see giving them the win somewhere around Bad Wolf/The Parting of The Ways but with the Daleks down from ten million ships, then to an Emperor's fleet, and finally to one odd little black fellow, all of this with one Time Lord still remaining, I don't see how the Daleks could be called the victors. They're progressively losing, actually and each time, the Doctor has been either directly or indirectly responsible for the continued destruction of the Daleks. Sure, the whole "destroy the Daleks" bit was supposed to be a one-off thing but the last Time Lord has continued what he started each time a straggler to the guillotine has popped up.

If the Time War was to keep the Daleks from overrunning everything, then the Time Lords succeeded in at least retarding the Daleks' efforts. Victory for the Daleks would be a total takeover and since they can't do that now, and never will be able to do that with the Doctor still around, the Daleks can't actually win.Hmm... good point.

However, since both the Doctor and a genesis ark full of Daleks survived (at least one ark... there could be more), I'd say that the deaths of all bar one of the Time Lords was a bit more tragic. It seems easier to make more Daleks than Time Lords...

BC - 303
August 2nd, 2006, 06:38 AM
I recon the Master getting trialed on Skarro had something to do with the time war, so it may have been fighting in his eight incarnation

AyanEva
August 2nd, 2006, 03:15 PM
Actually, the reason he didn't was because the Delta wave would have killed all the humans on Earth too. That's what he couldn't do. Back on Skaro, it was just him and the room full of mutant Kaleds.

Yeah, I actually realized that the other day just out of nowhere. I'm like, "Oh wait..." I realized that my reasoning fell apart when I thought back to the Dalek episode and even the beginning of TPOW. You're totally right.



However, since both the Doctor and a genesis ark full of Daleks survived (at least one ark... there could be more), I'd say that the deaths of all bar one of the Time Lords was a bit more tragic. It seems easier to make more Daleks than Time Lords...


Agreed!


Heeeey, what happens if someone saved a Loom, assuming the Looms are actually canon? I kinda hope they are, although I doubt it, because I think it's a spiffy idea. Just a thought, and one that's only slightly related to the topic at hand.


AyanEva *wishing that they'd let her write a script cuz it'd be off the wall*

Mr.Clark
August 7th, 2006, 11:57 AM
Uhm... just a thought.

Did the Doctor start the Time War?

He tricked Davros into sending the Hand of Omega to Skaro where it destroyed the sun and crisped the planet.

I'd guess any Daleks that survived might have blamed the Time Lords as a people and gone to war against them...

As for the Looms... I had to search Wiki for them, but maybe the Time Lords found a way to store their mind patterns in something like the Matrix, then time-delay a few Looms to create new bodies in the event that they didn't survive the War...

The Signal
August 7th, 2006, 11:59 AM
The Time Lords pretty much started it in Genesis of the Daleks by trying to stop their creation

Metarock Sam
August 8th, 2006, 10:13 AM
I recon the Master getting trialed on Skarro had something to do with the time war, so it may have been fighting in his eight incarnation
The Master getting trialed has nothing to do with the Time War. According to the book 'The Eight Doctors'
he eat the snake thing (from the movie) which would turn him into the snake thing when he died so he landed his TARDIS on Skaro so that he could be excecuted knowingly they would fulfill his last request and let the Doctor return his remains to Gallifrey
Oh and when The Master was trialed the Doctor was in his seventh incarnation.

BC - 303
August 8th, 2006, 12:00 PM
Books are sub canon, it could be possible.