PDA

View Full Version : I now know that Doctor Who fans are called "Whovians."



Major Tyler
June 4th, 2006, 12:39 AM
Dear Whovians,

Never in the the history of fandom has anyone ever suffered through so much to learn the answer to the question of "What do Doctor Who fans call themselves?"

I was foolish enough to ask my English friend Bridgit (whom I now call the Evil One as she chuckles maniacally at my misfortune) after making me sit down and watch an episode called "Bad Wolf" last Friday. She told me that DW fans were called "Who-ers." My reply was "Wow, that's an unfortunate choice, because it sounds an awful lot like another word." Upon hearing that I believed her silly lie, Bridgit decided to seize the opportunity to add another.

"Not only that," she replied in a measured tone to convey sincerety, "but it's spelled the same way as the other word, too."

"What?" I quietly exclaimed with incredulity.

"It's true!" she assured. "In the U.K., the 'e' and the 'r' are reverse from the U.S. way, you know that." If only she hadn't turned away I might have seen the evil glint in her eye.

And I surely was aware of that difference in the way Americans and Brits spell words. Using words such as "theatre" and "centre" as evidence of the veracity of her claim, though still somewhat skeptical, I thought I would take the opportunity to ask the DW fans (whom I now know are Whovians) on GateWorld, whether or not this was true.

Big. Mistake.

Apparently my inquiry was taken in entirely the wrong light, and I am very, very, sorry. I thought I had sufficiently explained myself in the opening post, but apparently not. It was not my intention to offend anyone, and I apologize if that was the result.

To make up for it, here is a list of ten things I like about Doctor Who (please keep in mind I've only seen two episodes, "Bad Wolf" and the one where the Daleks kill a bunch of Americans in Utah):

1.) Captain Jack is cool. :cool:
2.) The Daleks are actually a lot more deep as an enemy than they might appear on the surface.
3.) I'm beginning to understand a lot more of the U.K. cultural references I've heard.
4.) The theme song is cool.
5.) I like the way the Daleks say "EXTERMINATE!"
6.) The Doctor is funny, but he's not a clown. A good balance of serious and humourous.
7.) The "No" speech at the end of "Bad Wolf" was very moving.
8.) Captain Jack's reaction to Rose's apparent disintegration was also moving.
9.) Rose's humane spirit in face of the Daleks, especially the one who thought he was the last of his kind and wanted to die because he was part-human, was very well-portrayed by Ms. Piper.
10.) Though I haven't seen series two (28?), I like David Tennant.

Next time I have a question about Doctor Who, I'll just Google it.

Willow'sCat
June 4th, 2006, 04:42 AM
Is this a joke? :cool:

You missed the point completely it is obvious what you did, we know it just because you are in a position to back peddle *delete threads when the going gets tough* doesn't make it right. :cool:

You missed the point! :cool:

Tracy Jane
June 4th, 2006, 05:58 AM
Thank you for the apology. It is, at least, a start. But I think a lot of posters are annoyed at the double standards. Please take a moment to think what would have happened if it had been a new poster and not a mod who had posted that thread.

Major Tyler
June 4th, 2006, 06:32 AM
Thank you for the apology. It is, at least, a start.Thank you, I appreciate that.
But I think a lot of posters are annoyed at the double standards. Please take a moment to think what would have happened if it had been a new poster and not a mod who had posted that thread.I'm afraid I don't see the double-standard. If a new (or old, for that matter) poster had started that thread, it would have been closed and removed given the visceral and extreme reaction to it...which is exactly what happened in this case. Two of the six replies in that thread were legitimate answers to my question, while the other four were angry replies rife with personal attacks, which always get deleted/snipped.

Yes, I chose to delete the thread because it was clearly upsetting people and it no longer had a purpose. Since two of the replies sufficiently answered my question, I didn't see any reason to try and salvage the thread by only removing or snipping the personal attacks. I must admit that I'm more than a little puzzled because people seemed so offended that the thread existed, but now people are saying they are offended that it's gone. :confused:

Again, I'm sorry people misconstrued my purpose with that thread. It was not my intention to upset anyone. It is also becoming apparent that it does not matter how much I apologize. You, Tracy Jane, are the only person who has given me the slightest hint that my apology had any effect, or that anything I could do or say might make up for this.

If I have no hope for forgiveness or reconciliation, what choice do I have but to wash my hands of this experience and move on?

Flyboy
June 4th, 2006, 06:46 AM
Dear Whovians,

Never in the the history of fandom has anyone ever suffered through so much to learn the answer to the question of "What do Doctor Who fans call themselves?"

I was foolish enough to ask my English friend Bridgit (whom I now call the Evil One as she chuckles maniacally at my misfortune) after making me sit down and watch an episode called "Bad Wolf" last Friday. She told me that DW fans were called "Who-ers." My reply was "Wow, that's an unfortunate choice, because it sounds an awful lot like another word." Upon hearing that I believed her silly lie, Bridgit decided to seize the opportunity to add another.

"Not only that," she replied in a measured tone to convey sincerety, "but it's spelled the same way as the other word, too."

"What?" I quietly exclaimed with incredulity.

"It's true!" she assured. "In the U.K., the 'e' and the 'r' are reverse from the U.S. way, you know that." If only she hadn't turned away I might have seen the evil glint in her eye.

And I surely was aware of that difference in the way Americans and Brits spell words. Using words such as "theatre" and "centre" as evidence of the veracity of her claim, though still somewhat skeptical, I thought I would take the opportunity to ask the DW fans (whom I now know are Whovians) on GateWorld, whether or not this was true.

Big. Mistake.

Apparently my inquiry was taken in entirely the wrong light, and I am very, very, sorry. I thought I had sufficiently explained myself in the opening post, but apparently not. It was not my intention to offend anyone, and I apologize if that was the result.

To make up for it, here is a list of ten things I like about Doctor Who (please keep in mind I've only seen two episodes, "Bad Wolf" and the one where the Daleks kill a bunch of Americans in Utah):

1.) Captain Jack is cool. :cool:
2.) The Daleks are actually a lot more deep as an enemy than they might appear on the surface.
3.) I'm beginning to understand a lot more of the U.K. cultural references I've heard.
4.) The theme song is cool.
5.) I like the way the Daleks say "EXTERMINATE!"
6.) The Doctor is funny, but he's not a clown. A good balance of serious and humourous.
7.) The "No" speech at the end of "Bad Wolf" was very moving.
8.) Captain Jack's reaction to Rose's apparent disintegration was also moving.
9.) Rose's humane spirit in face of the Daleks, especially the one who thought he was the last of his kind and wanted to die because he was part-human, was very well-portrayed by Ms. Piper.
10.) Though I haven't seen series two (28?), I like David Tennant.

Next time I have a question about Doctor Who, I'll just Google it.
You're lovely you know that?


Apology accepted completely and utterly... but seriously, don't be afraid to ask questions about Who in future. really.

Tracy Jane
June 4th, 2006, 06:48 AM
Major Tyler, I think there are some other issues surrounding people's problems with the thread, so I am currently writing you a PM, attempting to explain. It is probably better that we keep that discussion out of the public forum. It might take a little while :)

Major Tyler
June 4th, 2006, 07:21 AM
You're lovely you know that?

Apology accepted completely and utterly... but seriously, don't be afraid to ask questions about Who in future. really.I love you, FOB! :D You just made my day...seriously. :)

Flyboy
June 4th, 2006, 07:22 AM
:) Glad to hear it.

Major Tyler
June 4th, 2006, 07:33 AM
Major Tyler, I think there are some other issues surrounding people's problems with the thread, so I am currently writing you a PM, attempting to explain. It is probably better that we keep that discussion out of the public forum. It might take a little while :)Okay, Tracy Jane. I've read your PMs and I have a better understanding of where you are coming from.

I think I've found some of the originating sources of all the anger, so I'd like to address those parts publically:

I admit that I said in the "Ask the Mods" thread that I deleted it because it no longer had a purpose. Although, as I have explained above, that was only why I chose deletion versus snipping. I did not go into further detail because the "Ask the Mods" thread is not the appropriate place. Sorry for the confusion that short statement caused. I asked the individual to PM me rather than post there, but she chose to disregard that, so I deleted the second post there.

I also deleted a third post in the "Ask the Mods" thread for the same reason. It seems that some of you are under the impression that I deleted them to hide them from the other moderators. That is not the case. Even when deleted, those posts can be viewed by any moderator/admin. It's called "soft-deletion."

Also, a lot of you talk exclusively about the title of the thread, which leads me to believe that few of you read the content of the opening post, or chose to dismiss it out of hand. The content of the post was basically a shorter version of the story I recounted for you in this apology thread. At no point did I call anyone anything. I simply asked if what my English friend told me was accurate...that's it. Clearly she was just playing a trick on me...well the joke's on me, that's for sure!

Lastly, the charge that I "only apologized because the other mods made me" is completely and utterly false. I suppose you could PM every last one of them and ask them yourself if you don't believe me. You can question my motivations all you want, but it all comes down to whether or not you believe me. If you believe my apology and can forgive me, great! If you think I'm a vile, contemptable liar not worthy of forgiveness, fine...I won't be happy about it, but there's nothing else I can say at this point.

I hope this helped clear up a few things.

Hatusu
June 4th, 2006, 07:49 AM
http://bestsmileys.com/hugging/4.gif
Thanks for listening, MT. :)

Tracy Jane
June 4th, 2006, 07:55 AM
Thank you, Major Tyler.

jonno
June 4th, 2006, 08:15 AM
Indeed - it's good that you've apologised.

Egeria
June 4th, 2006, 02:28 PM
OK, as one of the players in last nights mini-drama, I think it'd be wrong if I didn't comment.

Firstly, thanks for the apology MT....it is appreciated.

I still feel angry about the incident, but what's the point dragging it out....it's done, old news.

Saying that, I would like to address one point.



Also, a lot of you talk exclusively about the title of the thread, which leads me to believe that few of you read the content of the opening post, or chose to dismiss it out of hand. The content of the post was basically a shorter version of the story I recounted for you in this apology thread. At no point did I call anyone anything. I simply asked if what my English friend told me was accurate...that's it. Clearly she was just playing a trick on me...well the joke's on me, that's for sure!


The thread title is/was my biggest bone of contention. I did read the whole post MT, I didn't just go off on one after reading the title. I know that you didn't directly call anyone anything. Every day we see trolls and flamers hide behind clever wording used to disguise derogatory or inciteful comments (not that I'm accusing you of being either). It just gets tiresome. Thread titles are manipulated to catch the eye, and I really do think that the title was very inappropriate, regardless of your intent.

Major Tyler
June 4th, 2006, 02:55 PM
Thread titles are manipulated to catch the eye, and I really do think that the title was very inappropriate, regardless of your intent.I agree...in hindsight it certainly was in poor taste.

Billz
June 4th, 2006, 03:12 PM
I didnt really spend alot of time in the forum last night so Im not sure what thread you all are talking about. On that note, I would like to be told what it was about, but only by PM if possible.

Deputy-Assistant-Second-Prime
June 4th, 2006, 03:37 PM
Wow, I'm gone for a little while and look what I missed.


Apparently my inquiry was taken in entirely the wrong light, and I am very, very, sorry. I thought I had sufficiently explained myself in the opening post, but apparently not. It was not my intention to offend anyone, and I apologize if that was the result.You say someone played a joke on you. I believe you.
You posted an inquiry to verify it. No problem here.
People took it the wrong way and got upset. Sounds familar. Happens to me quite often.


To make up for it, here is a list of ten things I like about Doctor Who (please keep in mind I've only seen two episodes, "Bad Wolf" and the one where the Daleks kill a bunch of Americans in Utah)Don't bother. Either people will believe you or they won't.

I know you to be a very respectful and empathetic individual who has exercised great personal restraint even in the course of some very heated debates.

Personally, I see this as a non-issue.


Next time I have a question about Doctor Who, I'll just Google it.Why? That's what this folder is for.

You shouldn't self-impose restrictions like that.
At the very least, feel free to PM me with any questions.
I'm always willing to discuss my favorite television program.

Major Tyler
June 4th, 2006, 03:48 PM
I know you to be a very respectful and empathetic individual who has exercised great personal restraint even in the course of some very heated debates.

Personally, I see this as a non-issue.Thank you very much, DASP. I really needed to hear someone say something nice. I feel like people are throwing the baby out with the bathwater in my case. I appreciate your kindness a great deal.

ShadowMaat
June 4th, 2006, 04:21 PM
I'm coming into this a bit late, but I've been dealing with the flak all day.

First of all, Tyler, thank you for the apology, it is much appreciated.

Second, in the future perhaps you should take the advice that is given to ALL newbies- and to oldtimers as well: read a section before you post in it. If you'd done that, you would have seen a thread called You Know You're a Whovian When... (http://forum.gateworld.net/showthread.php?t=28125) That right there should have answered your question about what Who fans call themselves (when they call themselves anything). It's a popular thread and it has been on the first page of this folder for a few days. At least when I've been around.

Less obvious but also helpful is What the Heck is Doctor Who? (http://forum.gateworld.net/showthread.php?t=17842), which has become a sort of FAQ/Q&A thread for all things Who. If the answer is not there, the question could certainly be asked. In fact, maybe the title could be tweaked to indicate that it's an unofficial FAQ of sorts.

Third- and I mean this sincerely and without rancour- try thinking before you post. Such advice has been expressed often enough in the Ask a Mod thread and various other help-type threads. What sort of reaction did you expect? You called people whores. Yes, you were the victim of an apparent joke and yes, apparently you asked the question in the honest assumption that what you were told was the truth, but even if it HAD been real you had to have expected some kind of negative reaction/backlash, if only from those who didn't know that it was the proper term. The fact that it isn't the proper term... Well... Caution is always best when it comes to potentially controversial terms, however "real" you (generally speaking) may think they are.

Say that in a hypothetical fandom you have two characters: Fiona and Tucker. They have a strong ship contingent. Someone tells you that the shippers call themselves F***ers. Would you hop into the middle of the shipping folder and ask folks if they were F***ers, or would you look around a bit, first? Maybe see if there's already a thread about it. Maybe PM someone you know who ships Fiona/Tucker and ask him/her what the appropriate term is. Or just start a thread saying, "Hey, what do you guys call yourselves?" and completely ignore the info you were given unless/until it is confirmed within that thread and save yourself the turmoil of calling fans a bunch of F***ers when, in fact, they're Tunas. :P

I've been duped before, myself. It's usually pretty embarrassing, especially when it's public, but when you think you know something the trick is to ask someone else the same question and seeing how they answer.

Major Tyler
June 4th, 2006, 04:36 PM
You called people whores.No, I didn't. I'm willing to take responsibility for what I did do, but I won't let myself be indicted for something I didn't do.

ShadowMaat
June 4th, 2006, 04:39 PM
No, I didn't. I'm willing to take responsibility for what I did do, but I won't let myself be indicted for something I didn't do.
Hmm... Then I've been blatantly misled by others all day long. My apologies, Tyler.

jonno
June 4th, 2006, 04:39 PM
No, I didn't. I'm willing to take responsibility for what I did do, but I won't let myself be indicted for something I didn't do.

In which case, you phrased yourself poorly enough for some people to think that you DID.

Either way, it's a good idea to think about the title of a thread before posting it. To include the word whore in any thread title is just asking for trouble. And guess what you got ... It just looks, and feels provocative.

Flyboy
June 4th, 2006, 04:51 PM
Guys Guys Guys...

Come on, he made a mistake. But its not the end of the world. Let's just let him off with a caution or something?

ShadowMaat
June 4th, 2006, 04:56 PM
Come on, he made a mistake. But its not the end of the world. Let's just let him off with a caution or something?
Seems like there were a couple of mistakes made which only compounded the original "misunderstanding" but that isn't for us plebs to sort out. ;)

jonno
June 4th, 2006, 04:57 PM
Guys Guys Guys...

Come on, he made a mistake. But its not the end of the world. Let's just let him off with a caution or something?

That's the question isn't it ... should a mod really need a caution? They are arguably supposed to be the 10ish best, most mature, intelligent posters on the forum. To avoid getting into trouble, i'll leave it at that. Everyone will have their own views on it, and it's not up to me to make up anyone elses minds. My own personal views will remain private.

Tracy Jane
June 4th, 2006, 05:07 PM
By my recollection, Dr Who fans were called whores in your post when you said "so that would make them whores, right?" I seem to remember you writing that. Of course, with the mysterious disappearance of the thread :rolleyes: I can't verify that statement or quote directly. However, if I've misquoted, then there are an awful lot of people out there who got the wrong impression last night.

Major Tyler
June 4th, 2006, 05:13 PM
By my recollection, Dr Who fans were called whores in your post when you said "so that would make them whores, right?" I seem to remember you writing that. Of course, with the mysterious disappearance of the thread :rolleyes: I can't verify that statement or quote directly. However, if I've misquoted, then there are an awful lot of people out there who got the wrong impression last night.I asked if they were called that, and then explained what my friend had told me after we watched "Bad Wolf." At no point did I say anyone was called anything.

It seems peoples' recollections automatically shift to "worst case scenario."

Flyboy
June 4th, 2006, 05:18 PM
By my recollection, Dr Who fans were called whores in your post when you said "so that would make them whores, right?" I seem to remember you writing that. Of course, with the mysterious disappearance of the thread :rolleyes: I can't verify that statement or quote directly. However, if I've misquoted, then there are an awful lot of people out there who got the wrong impression last night.
Thankfully I'm blessed with a fairly good memory. Tyler was referring to the spelling, he questioned the UK spelling systerm of ER, eg Center/Centre. He was inquiring as to whether or not Who-ER would be spelt Whore based on UK grammer. He did not say "Ha Ha Who Fans are Whores!".

ShadowMaat
June 4th, 2006, 05:24 PM
Can I just point out how ridiculously awkward "Who-ers" is regardless of how it's spelled? :P And if the phrase "whore" was written by Tyler, that kinda answers one of the questions that's been nagging me today.

It really IS a shame that the evidence has been completely erased so that I have no way of putting it into context. It could have been a bad attempt to be clever or it could have been something else. Guess I'll have no way of deciding for myself. But I stand by what I originally said, if someone tells you that a controversial term is the "right" one then research it heavily and triple-check your info before using it. Saves everyone a lot of pain and trouble.

Egeria
June 4th, 2006, 05:30 PM
^ FOB you're quite right at no point did MT directly call DW fans whores. However, the play on spelling thing is a tad lame. You just gotta know that no fandom in it's right mind would call itself whores, and the suggestion, (albeit raised as a question)' is still , to some, offensive . I give MT the credit he's due, I know he's educated, he's no thick newbie and as such I don't believe that he entered the discussion with a naivety based purely on a difference in spelling. Fair dues, he's said sorry...end of. It's just a bit difficult to let this one go when one side of this story can hardly be supported due to the obvious lack of evidence, and as such those of us who feel aggrieved by the thread are being painted in a negative manner.

jonno
June 4th, 2006, 05:33 PM
It would seem therefore that the simplest solution would be to undelete the thread, but have it closed. Then everyones recollections could be verified/comfirmed. Any offensive words can be snipped from posts.

Major Tyler
June 4th, 2006, 05:35 PM
At what point does continuously bringing up this issue stop being justified and start being simply petty and cruel? I've apologize multiple times, entertained every PM from concerned parties, explained my actions as thoroughly as I can...I really can't think of anything else I can do.

I guess my question is what is it going to take for this issue to finally be laid to rest? Is there something you're all waiting for me to do or say? Do you not think I'm making a good-faith effort to reconcile? How much energy must we expend on this?

Please let me know...

Flyboy
June 4th, 2006, 05:37 PM
No ones been painted in a negative manner, really.

I don't think anyone's questioning why people might be upset about it, however, as you said, an apology has been made and its the end of it.

Unfortunatly some people don't know exactly what happened and are working on secondary knowledge.

In life we can't bear grudges constantly, we'd lead a very poor existence. I know some people are still hurt, I wouldn't blame them. Let's just say that Tyler was an idiot and has learnt a lesson from this.

Egeria
June 4th, 2006, 05:40 PM
^ MT I'm sorry for posting, my last post was more in response to FOB's comment than anything else. As far as I'm concerned you've said sorry, fair dues that should be the end of it. You can't blame folks for being interested though and dragging it out....we all love a bit of drama. It'll die and go away soon enough, you know what this place is like.

*edit* and for the record me and FOB are chums, he knows I love him. :D

Major Tyler
June 4th, 2006, 05:56 PM
Honestly, when I posted I thought the worst that would happen is people would have a laugh at my expense. I readily admit that the title was shocking and in poor taste, but I thought that people would read my post and would know exactly what I meant and everything would be fine. If truely I intended to upset people, I can think of a lot more clever and less sensational ways of going about it.

I thought if I was wrong people would say "I can't believe he fell for that" or "she pulled a good one on him." I never dreamed it would turn into a 36-hour crisis. I hope you (general) can believe that.

Hatusu
June 4th, 2006, 06:01 PM
I think everyone just needed to have their say and now we can lay this to rest. :)

Tracy Jane
June 4th, 2006, 06:01 PM
I asked if they were called that, and then explained what my friend had told me after we watched "Bad Wolf." At no point did I say anyone was called anything.

It seems peoples' recollections automatically shift to "worst case scenario."
I know you didn't call Dr Who fans whores in the traditional sense of the word, but I did find it offensive all the same. I was just answering Jonno's question.

I don't know what I "expect" or want. But in the last 24 hours, it seems, I have been called aggressive, oversensitive AND a liar (on multiple occasions) by the same person. And that does not go down well with me when I've been trying to stay polite for the sake of constructive discourse here on Gateworld.

However, I digress. I agree with Hatusu. I think everyone needed to get some things off their chests. It should die down a little now.

Skydiver
June 4th, 2006, 06:29 PM
Guys, Tyler made a mistake. There was nothing malicious or mean in his thread. He was the unfortunate butt of someone's joke.

We've discussed it and i consider it closed. He made a mistake, he apologized and he'll know better in the future. Live and learn.

I'm closing this thread because it has served its purpose. If anyone else has an issue with MT, they can take it up with me.

but, given that you whovians are the only ones on this forum that have new episodes to talk about, i'm sure y'all will find some other topic to occupy your time :)