PDA

View Full Version : Live Together, Die Alone (223)



GateWorld
February 8th, 2006, 08:40 PM
<DIV ALIGN=CENTER><TABLE WIDTH=450 BORDER=0 CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=7><TR><TD><DIV ALIGN=LEFT><FONT FACE="Arial" SIZE=2 COLOR="#000000"><A HREF="http://www.scifistream.com/lost/s2/index.shtml#223"><IMG SRC="http://www.scifistream.com/lost/graphics/223.jpg" WIDTH=160 HEIGHT=120 ALIGN=RIGHT HSPACE=10 VSPACE=2 BORDER=0 STYLE="border: 1px solid black" ALT="Visit the Episode Guide"></A><FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#888888">LOST SEASON TWO</FONT>
<FONT SIZE=4><A HREF="http://www.scifistream.com/lost/s2/index.shtml#223" STYLE="text-decoration: none">LIVE TOGETHER, DIE ALONE</A></FONT>
<FONT SIZE=1>EPISODE NUMBER - 223</FONT>
<IMG SRC="/images/clear.gif" WIDTH=1 HEIGHT=10 ALT="">
When Desmond returns he and Locke plan to seize control of the hatch from Eko. Desmond remembers the life that brought him to the island, while Jack and Sayid come up with a plan to thwart Michael's attempt to lead the group into the Others' trap.

<FONT SIZE=1><B><A HREF="http://www.scifistream.com/lost/s2/index.shtml#223">VISIT THE EPISODE GUIDE >></A></B></FONT></FONT></DIV></TD></TR></TABLE></DIV>

FoolishPleasure
May 26th, 2006, 06:17 AM
This thread was created late, and I know a lot of other threads have picked up on this episode, but we'll see what we can discuss.

What the heck language were those researchers speaking in the end? Some think it was Portugese, but others think Russian.

Jonzey
May 26th, 2006, 06:56 AM
This thread was created late, and I know a lot of other threads have picked up on this episode, but we'll see what we can discuss.

What the heck language were those researchers speaking in the end? Some think it was Portugese, but others think Russian.
Apparantly it was Portugese.

But the number on their screen at the end? 7418880?
7418880 = 4 x 8 x 15 x 16 x 23 x 42

The four-toed statue was probably the most intriguing thing about the episode, even though there were lots of other good parts- like what's gonna happen to Jack, Kate and Sawyer, what happened to Desmond, Eko and Locke, and wtf is up with Charlie?

ItsDan
May 26th, 2006, 07:13 AM
Am I wrong, or was the last 2 minutes, with the 2 men and the call to Penelope the first scenes in the whole of 2 seasons to occur not in the presence of a crash survivor or one of their flashbacks?

Jonzey
May 26th, 2006, 07:18 AM
Am I wrong, or was the last 2 minutes, with the 2 men and the call to Penelope the first scenes in the whole of 2 seasons to occur not in the presence of a crash survivor or one of their flashbacks?
It's also the first non-flashback scene to take place off the island.

Arative
May 26th, 2006, 07:33 AM
It was an interesting episode, generated way more questions than answers.

At least we know that the Losties hatch serves a real function now and pushing the button isn't some sort of experiment. But what was up with the Pearl? Were the stations originally meant to be self-contained, where the occupants never went outside and then the neumatic tube was suppose to collected from someone on the outside or were the notebooks never meant to be collected?

Clearly the Dharma foundation is still functioning since it dropped the food for the Lostie hatch. We know for sure that Dharma was still recruiting and sending people to the hatches after 1991 since Kelvin joined them after the gulf war. So what are the Others? Ex-Dharma employees or people that crashed on the island that went crazy? Or were affected by something on the island? The sickness? The incident?

The only thing I really didn't like about this episode was Libby. I think the writers were like, oh we killed her off without resolving her backstory, we better throw something in about her. She's now connected to two people that are on the island, Desmond and Hurley and in more than just a passing way like most of the backstories are told. To me, that has to make her important and I wonder if the writers made a mistake in killing her off.

FoolishPleasure
May 26th, 2006, 07:37 AM
Interesting article in Washington Post:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/discussion/2006/05/24/DI2006052401841.html

BTW - my husband speaks fluent Portugese and he said there was no Portugese spoken by those two guys at the end of the show. He thought the language sounded Slavic.

rarocks24
May 26th, 2006, 07:50 AM
I agree. I thought the language sounded slavic, course it could have been scandinavian too.

Brilliant ending, though I thought the chick in the end was working outside of Dharma and trying to bring the Hanso Foundation because if she was a part of Dharma, wouldn't she already know the location of the island? Henry as the leader of the group wasn't too surprising, I suspected that he might have been. What a way to end the season, a two minute flash to the real world (what's going on off the island).

ItsDan
May 26th, 2006, 08:02 AM
Remember Penelope's comment about "If you have enough money and devotion you can find anyone". I think we'll find out that Penelope is doing just that, searching for Desmond. I bet her father is somehow related to Dharma/Hanso. Perhaps that's how she learned of the magneticism and it's significance.

FoolishPleasure
May 26th, 2006, 08:34 AM
Remember Penelope's comment about "If you have enough money and devotion you can find anyone". I think we'll find out that Penelope is doing just that, searching for Desmond. I bet her father is somehow related to Dharma/Hanso. Perhaps that's how she learned of the magneticism and it's significance.
Penelope's dad was that Widmore Corp. honcho, and we've already seen Widmore is tied to Hanso Corp. Gonna be interesting to see how it continues to merge together.

ste
May 26th, 2006, 09:17 AM
Remember Libby said the boat was named after her, and the boat was called Elizabeth, so is libby short for Elizabeth, i know its prob a dumb question. also whats withs all the tubes from the Pearl ending up in a field??? And desmond not pressing the button in time caused the plane to crash, now thats cool. Cant wait for season 3.

Oh yeah, what was with desmond saying that he didnt press the button on the 22 of september 2004??? i thought it was set in 2005, im so confused

FoolishPleasure
May 26th, 2006, 09:32 AM
Remember Libby said the boat was named after her, and the boat was called Elizabeth, so is libby short for Elizabeth, i know its prob a dumb question. also whats withs all the tubes from the Pearl ending up in a field??? And desmond not pressing the button in time caused the plane to crash, now thats cool. Cant wait for season 3.

Oh yeah, what was with desmond saying that he didnt press the button on the 22 of september 2004??? i thought it was set in 2005, im so confused
Maybe the writers got confused with their timelines (that never happens, does it?). ;)

The show has been on for two years, although the Losties have been on the island less than a year in "their" time.

I finally got into thefuselage this morning and there is speculation that Kelvin lured Desmond out of the hatch, and far away to purposely make him miss hitting the numbers on Sept. 22 - that the crash WAS planned all along. After all, we don't know what Kelvin was up to, or where he went all those times he left Desmond alone in the hatch.

The Prophet
May 26th, 2006, 09:51 AM
According to Wikipedia:

...A jolting cut to arctic snow swirling in howling wind. As the camera pulls back we find ourselves looking out a window from a cramped research or monitoring outpost. Two men wearing heavy winter garments play chess, chiding each other in Brazilian Portugese. Suddenly, one of the men notices a blinking red light on one of the computers; the screen shows the number 7418880 (the result of multiplying all of The Numbers together) and a dialog box that reads "electromagnetic anomaly detected."

One of the men frantically cries that they have "missed it again." The other shouts that they haven't, desperately runs through some files, and orders the other to make a call with their yellow phone. Penelope, Desmond's wealthy flame, is seen taking a phone from a night-table, which lies next to a picture of her and Desmond (the very same photo he has always kept with him). The Portuguese-speaking men then tell Penelope that they think they've "found it."

PuddleJumper14
May 26th, 2006, 11:44 AM
It was an interesting episode, generated way more questions than answers.

The only thing I really didn't like about this episode was Libby. I think the writers were like, oh we killed her off without resolving her backstory, we better throw something in about her. She's now connected to two people that are on the island, Desmond and Hurley and in more than just a passing way like most of the backstories are told. To me, that has to make her important and I wonder if the writers made a mistake in killing her off.

Somewhere (tvguide.com maybe) I read an interview with the writers and they had mixed feelings about killing Libby. In part it was due to the actress getting another job. Another part had to do with killing Ana Lucia and the fact that most fans would not care if Ana was killed. Libby on the other hand... people were sad about that and it would be more of a shock. In the same interview they also said that Libby would continue to appear in other people's flashbacks into season 3.

PuddleJumper14
May 26th, 2006, 11:50 AM
I finally got into thefuselage this morning and there is speculation that Kelvin lured Desmond out of the hatch, and far away to purposely make him miss hitting the numbers on Sept. 22 - that the crash WAS planned all along. After all, we don't know what Kelvin was up to, or where he went all those times he left Desmond alone in the hatch.

That would make sense. Seems to me there was a group of Dharma folks on the "outside" that worked to get specific people on the plane knowing it would crash on the island.

ItsDan
May 26th, 2006, 02:41 PM
But it's unlikely he'd know Desmond would follow him, or notice the rip in the pants, etc. Could still be "Island Coincidence".

blueiris
May 27th, 2006, 05:08 PM
I loved this episode. My big regret is Desmond. I had become terribly attached to him in this episode.

ItsDan
May 27th, 2006, 08:03 PM
I wouldn't go assuming he's dead... Infact with the addition of Penelope to the storyline, Desmond may remain an integral part of the storyline.

If we continue to learn about Penelope's search, and I'm making some assumptions here but, for Desmond (by way of finding the island), it would be rather sad seeing her search for the next few seasons for a dead man.

Nyarlathotep
May 28th, 2006, 02:23 AM
Well, all I have to say is 'Arrrrggghhh!'... another interminable wait for the next season to start!

Seems to be quite an evolution going on with this show... the first season focussed on the fusies and their immediate problems and the issues of surviving amidst all the weird goings on. The second season has focussed on the island and the other things that are happening and the third will expand that further to include the outside world and perhaps the islands place within it...

blueiris
May 28th, 2006, 03:36 AM
I wouldn't go assuming he's dead... Infact with the addition of Penelope to the storyline, Desmond may remain an integral part of the storyline.

If we continue to learn about Penelope's search, and I'm making some assumptions here but, for Desmond (by way of finding the island), it would be rather sad seeing her search for the next few seasons for a dead man.
True. I hope you are right. Before this episode, I found Desmond excess baggage, so to speak. Thats completely changed. I felt for him and would really love to see him able to participate (in 'alive' mode) in developing the story of Pen and Des.

The Signal
May 28th, 2006, 06:01 AM
the third will expand that further to include the outside world and perhaps the islands place within it...
From what I hear that isnt the focus of S3, the focus this time is The Others. S1 was the fussies and opening the hatch. S2 was the Dharma Initiative. S3 is the others, and with Michael Emmerson added to the regulars next year Im pretty sure thats how things are going to go down.
Am I the only one who thinks that Henry isnt the leader of the others? I think there is a chain of command, and while he is a few levels above Tom/Mr Friendly/Zeke when he spoke of "Him" that seemed like true fear, and Im not convinced that he was reffering to himself and just acting VERY well.

Overall, this really was a fantastic episode, and a brilliant ending to S2, which IMO has been far better than S1 overall. Desmond was great, I just hope he survived 'cus I would like to see more of him on the island next season. I doubt that Locke and Eko are dead, just because of Charlie's reaction when he hears they arent back, perhaps there was something going on off screen that we will see early next season. Sawyer talking to Kate about getting "caught in a net" with Jack was hilarious. Im going to miss Michael as he wont be on the regulars next year, but will be guest starring in some, and Im hoping Walt will do the same

jonno
May 28th, 2006, 07:54 AM
From what I hear that isnt the focus of S3, the focus this time is The Others. S1 was the fussies and opening the hatch. S2 was the Dharma Initiative. S3 is the others, and with Michael Emmerson added to the regulars next year Im pretty sure thats how things are going to go down.
Am I the only one who thinks that Henry isnt the leader of the others? I think there is a chain of command, and while he is a few levels above Tom/Mr Friendly/Zeke when he spoke of "Him" that seemed like true fear, and Im not convinced that he was reffering to himself and just acting VERY well.

Overall, this really was a fantastic episode, and a brilliant ending to S2, which IMO has been far better than S1 overall. Desmond was great, I just hope he survived 'cus I would like to see more of him on the island next season. I doubt that Locke and Eko are dead, just because of Charlie's reaction when he hears they arent back, perhaps there was something going on off screen that we will see early next season. Sawyer talking to Kate about getting "caught in a net" with Jack was hilarious. Im going to miss Michael as he wont be on the regulars next year, but will be guest starring in some, and Im hoping Walt will do the same


Do you know who the regulars are for next season - ie, are say, Terry O'Quinn and Adewele [crumbs i can't spell his name] confirmed as regulars or not?

The Signal
May 28th, 2006, 08:02 AM
Do you know who the regulars are for next season - ie, are say, Terry O'Quinn and Adewele [crumbs i can't spell his name] confirmed as regulars or not?
No, all I know is that:

Three new people will join, two women (one in her 30's, the other in her 20's) and a man (in his 20's).
Harold Perrineau (Michael) is not a regular
Cynthia Watros is going to be around in flashbacks
Henry is a regular
There are less fussie flashbacks, so we will be getting flashbacks of the new characters, so maybe a look at Henry's past on the island is a possibility.
We will at least find out what happened to Cindy, so were likely to see her at some point.

ItsDan
May 28th, 2006, 08:14 AM
Am I the only one who thinks that Henry isnt the leader of the others?

I never assume anything on this show. It would be silly to assume that just because he showed superiority over a dozen people on the beach, that he's senior to everyone involved with the island.

blueiris
May 28th, 2006, 04:54 PM
From what I hear that isnt the focus of S3, the focus this time is The Others. S1 was the fussies and opening the hatch. S2 was the Dharma Initiative. S3 is the others, and with Michael Emmerson added to the regulars next year Im pretty sure thats how things are going to go down.
Am I the only one who thinks that Henry isnt the leader of the others? I think there is a chain of command, and while he is a few levels above Tom/Mr Friendly/Zeke when he spoke of "Him" that seemed like true fear, and Im not convinced that he was reffering to himself and just acting VERY well.

Overall, this really was a fantastic episode, and a brilliant ending to S2, which IMO has been far better than S1 overall. Desmond was great, I just hope he survived 'cus I would like to see more of him on the island next season. I doubt that Locke and Eko are dead, just because of Charlie's reaction when he hears they arent back, perhaps there was something going on off screen that we will see early next season. Sawyer talking to Kate about getting "caught in a net" with Jack was hilarious. Im going to miss Michael as he wont be on the regulars next year, but will be guest starring in some, and Im hoping Walt will do the same
I agree, I don't think Henry is the leader, either. Maybe the leader of the group that we saw, but not of "it". The leader (or leaders) would not be in a position to be captured so easily, I don't think.

rarocks24
May 28th, 2006, 06:07 PM
I agree, I don't think Henry is the leader, either. Maybe the leader of the group that we saw, but not of "it". The leader (or leaders) would not be in a position to be captured so easily, I don't think.
Unless Henry had planned to be intentionally captured.

Morbo
May 28th, 2006, 07:19 PM
just FYI if you listened to the official podcast on the ABC website, damon and carlton said season 3 will focus on the characters, their backgrounds, and their relationships with each other.

Wyrminarrd
May 29th, 2006, 03:27 AM
This was a great episode and a great finale.

I think that Henry isn´t the big cheese of Dharma, in fact I doubt that he and the others are working for Dharma at all. They are more likely either people much like the losties who have simply gotten used to the Island or a are a group that is trying to work against Dharma but don´t really have the ways and means to do it.

As for Desmonds chick, I agree that she was almost certainly just searching for him. The reason for the electromagnetic thing would then most likely be because Desmond disappeared in one of them. Why she would assume that a man who was lost at sea three years ago was still alive is any ones guess.

It´s great to know that the button served a purpose, I´m really looking forward to seeing what the fallout from the shut down will be.

Next season should be great :)

jmallx
May 29th, 2006, 01:00 PM
Just finally watched it (damn OT at work).

Comments:

I hope Charlie didn't leave Locke, Eko and possibly Desmond in the hatch buried alive. At first I figured he was just shell shocked but we will see when S3 starts up.

Michael: I would have shot him (in the head) as soon as Sawyer got hit with the dart. His usefulnesss was over and he was an admitted murderer/traitor. Better not to have a man like that at your back during a fight.

This eps answered a few questions but raised a lot more. Who are the others (AKA the good guys)?
Why did they have a fake hatch? Just to fool Michael? Or Michael and others?
Desmond knew them as "the hostiles" Hostile to what/whom?

Theories:
The Others have access to the cameras in the now defunct electromagnetic hatch. They used this camera access to lure Michael in via the computer. Why? to get a blood sample to test for Walt's "psychic" abilities.

Fenry Gale pushed the button while Locke was trapped under the door (obviously). But more importantly he KNEW about the electromagnet. I'm theorizing that this is why the Others WOULD NOT go to rescue Fenry on their own. They did not want to risk damaging the terminal that kept the Electromagnet in check or getting blown up in a firefight in the Hatch.

Michael and Walt WILL NOT be able to get away from the island on heading 325. This may have worked while the naturally occuring electromagnet was in check but now its unleashed.

Final Thoughts: I want to see Michael killed off. I am PLAIN DISGUSTED with him.

rarocks24
May 29th, 2006, 01:40 PM
Just finally watched it (damn OT at work).

Comments:

I hope Charlie didn't leave Locke, Eko and possibly Desmond in the hatch buried alive. At first I figured he was just shell shocked but we will see when S3 starts up.

Michael: I would have shot him (in the head) as soon as Sawyer got hit with the dart. His usefulnesss was over and he was an admitted murderer/traitor. Better not to have a man like that at your back during a fight.

This eps answered a few questions but raised a lot more. Who are the others (AKA the good guys)?
Why did they have a fake hatch? Just to fool Michael? Or Michael and others?
Desmond knew them as "the hostiles" Hostile to what/whom?

Theories:
The Others have access to the cameras in the now defunct electromagnetic hatch. They used this camera access to lure Michael in via the computer. Why? to get a blood sample to test for Walt's "psychic" abilities.

Fenry Gale pushed the button while Locke was trapped under the door (obviously). But more importantly he KNEW about the electromagnet. I'm theorizing that this is why the Others WOULD NOT go to rescue Fenry on their own. They did not want to risk damaging the terminal that kept the Electromagnet in check or getting blown up in a firefight in the Hatch.

Michael and Walt WILL NOT be able to get away from the island on heading 325. This may have worked while the naturally occuring electromagnet was in check but now its unleashed.

Final Thoughts: I want to see Michael killed off. I am PLAIN DISGUSTED with him.
I don't think that Charlie is going to leave them in the hatch

God I hope something happens to Michael and that Walt is the only one that's rescued. Fenry's getting on my nerves with all this "good" one crap, I hope something painful comes to the "Good guys" or as Desmond knows them The Others. It didn't help that I didn't see all of the two parter, so I was about clueless at the end as to what happened. I finally rewatched the two parter today.:S

So the electromagnetic experiment is now terminated? Does that mean that the island is no longer electromagnetic? I think what lured Desmond back was the electromagnetism in the island that fooled the boats compass. Or the weather patterns along the island are funky. Interesting thing, the statue was definitely greek, though I don't know what the symbolism with the four twos would mean....

Anyways, wow....Desmond is connected to Penny and to Libby. I'm wondering if Penny is trying to find Desmond and knows that he was somehow involved with Dharma given her father's connections to Hanso. Oh, and the guy with the fake beard's name is Tom.

lord-anubis
May 29th, 2006, 04:11 PM
So the electromagnetic experiment is now terminated? Does that mean that the island is no longer electromagnetic? I think what lured Desmond back was the electromagnetism in the island that fooled the boats compass.
.


i think ur right the island is no longer electrmagnetic and thats what led desmond back. i also noiced when the hatch blew the others dident seem to know what was happening. also the statue looks greek to me to so i was thinking maybe they on atlanits just a thory

rarocks24
May 29th, 2006, 04:37 PM
I think what kept the island such a secret for so long was the electromagnetism, and that when the key was finally used, it completely terminated (disrupted the magnetism) of the whole island...the island can now be safely flown over. I also think there's some sort of wireless capability in the hatch that allows for Dharma planes to resupply the facility with supplies. :S

I'm amazed however that Desmond didn't suspect something like that cuz I'm sure they would have depleted those supplies together. :S

jmallx
May 29th, 2006, 06:54 PM
I think what kept the island such a secret for so long was the electromagnetism, and that when the key was finally used, it completely terminated (disrupted the magnetism) of the whole island...the island can now be safely flown over. I also think there's some sort of wireless capability in the hatch that allows for Dharma planes to resupply the facility with supplies. :S

I'm amazed however that Desmond didn't suspect something like that cuz I'm sure they would have depleted those supplies together. :S

Desmond was getting re-supplied every 3 months or so by the plane that dropped the supplies. I'm guessing the hatch went into lockdown mode when the supplies came so that the button pushers wouldn't be tempted to signal the plane.

Also, I forgot which character said it but the electromagnetism was naturally occuring. Thus the island is still electromagnetic. Perhaps the button just made it possible to enter/leave the island on heading 325.

rarocks24
May 29th, 2006, 08:54 PM
Desmond was getting re-supplied every 3 months or so by the plane that dropped the supplies. I'm guessing the hatch went into lockdown mode when the supplies came so that the button pushers wouldn't be tempted to signal the plane.

Also, I forgot which character said it but the electromagnetism was naturally occuring. Thus the island is still electromagnetic. Perhaps the button just made it possible to enter/leave the island on heading 325.
Possible, but we don't know the extent of their research. It's entirely possible that the Dharma folks had set up a failsafe that would permanently disrupt the electromagnetism of the island somehow. :S

Thermonuclearboy
May 30th, 2006, 06:27 AM
I'm not sure if the Others know about the Swan's purpose. Remember, when Desmond blew the place and everything got funky, not one of the Others really reacted. You'd think you'd get something like, "Oh crap, there goes the Swan!" But in fact they didnt' seem to have any reaction at all. If the station was really important to them, you'd think they would have. Not even a "Hey, boss? What was that?" from one of them.

We know now why they wanted Hurley: because the other castaways like and trust Hurley. If he tells them not to follow, they won't. Although it remains to be seen if Hurley will actually do that. Or if he'll hook up with Sayid and try to mount a rescue. Or if he'll just wander around the jungle, heartbroken, until he collapses from exhaustion (how is he supposed to find his way back, anyway?). Poor Hurley: not only does his girlfriend get killed, but she gets killed by someone he thought he could trust.

As to why they want the other three...that's the question. We know that when the Others usually take someone, they take "good" people. And at least two of our heroes definitely aren't (Jack's not exactly a saint either). If they just wanted them out of the way, they would have simply killed them. So there is some other purpose. Or the Others' concept of "good" is different form ours...

I'm wondering now...could the Island's unique electromagnetic properties be the reason some people have been hallucinating? Could it affect minds as well as bodies?

Arative
May 30th, 2006, 09:02 AM
I don't think that the electromagntism is gone. Something happened, "the Incident", what ever that was caused a huge amount of uncontrolled electromagntism to be released, from what I gathered pushing the button somehow controls the electromagntism from going into meltdown. I mean everytime we saw the countdown start to beep the warning we could hear machines start to hum. Obviously pushing the button keeps the EM from going into overload but it has to disapate it somewhere, the question is where does it disapate it too? The key itself I think is just a mechanical failsafe for the computer because after all, Dharma can't expect their electronic equipment to last forever. I don't think that turning a key could just shut it off, unless it set of some serious explosions but from the episode I didn't get the feeling that anything exploded.

We know that the island can heal people, it healed Locke and Rose for sure that we know of and we know that certain places on Earth have unique healing properties from the healer that Rose saw. And I've heard that some new age healers will use magnets to try and heal people. Since Dharma is using science, I can't help but wonder if they were trying to use the unique EM properties of the island to try and heal people. Something happened, perhaps they tried to tap too much EM and all hell broke loose. So now they need someone to press the button or else all the EM is released, I assume that it is a huge EM pulse that could disrupt a lot of electronics in the world. What if the EMP was so large it would destroy every electronic device in the world?

As far as the Others, I got the feeling that they are left over from Dharma experiments. Perhaps after "The Incident" the only hatch that really mattered was the Swan, since we saw that the neumatic tube just went to the middle of the jungle and the notebooks had obviously been building up for some time. Clearly Dharma is still recruiting people to send to the Swan and resupplying the Swan but its not doing anything for the rest of the hatches. Maybe Desmond had it right, the Swan mattered, the rest of the hatches were just pyschological experiments that got out of control.

But if the Swan really mattered, why does Dharma not change people out more often? I thought the film said every 540 days the people in the hatch would be changed out. Why was Kelvin down there for at least 4 years I think and Desmond 3 years without being relieved? And we know that the Swan people had a code word so the Others couldn't pretend to be a replacement. At least thats what I thought of the phrase What did one snowman say to the other. So what if the Others were part of the pyschological experiments and just went crazy but since Dharma is responsible for "The Incident" they feel that they must maintain people the Swan?

Thermonuclearboy
May 30th, 2006, 09:24 AM
Clearly, something broke down in the Dharma system. Relief stopped coming for the Swan, the notebooks stopped getting collected at the Pearl, and the other stations fell into disrepair. But the button kept getting pushed.

I'm just not sure about the Others anymore. I'm not sure how much they know about what's really going on. If they were test subjects in a behavioral experiment, and the Dharma Initiative abandoned them there for whatever reason, then they would have no way of knowing their situation was just an experiment and would have just kept on going. But on the other hand, some of them clearly understand what's really going on.

I'm just not going to speculate any more. Gonna wait till Season 3.

rarocks24
May 30th, 2006, 10:02 AM
Clearly, something broke down in the Dharma system. Relief stopped coming for the Swan, the notebooks stopped getting collected at the Pearl, and the other stations fell into disrepair. But the button kept getting pushed.

I'm just not sure about the Others anymore. I'm not sure how much they know about what's really going on. If they were test subjects in a behavioral experiment, and the Dharma Initiative abandoned them there for whatever reason, then they would have no way of knowing their situation was just an experiment and would have just kept on going. But on the other hand, some of them clearly understand what's really going on.

I'm just not going to speculate any more. Gonna wait till Season 3.
Well, how would Fenry know the correct heading to find rescue?

Somehow I think that the island was simply a place where they could perform the experiments and stash away the ones that they were experimenting on.

The thing that bothers me is if they're after the good ones, there's still plenty of good ones left. Hurley was one of the best people at the camp. So was Rose. Sun is perhaps the best one there is. All of the characters on the island grew up a lot.

Thermonuclearboy
May 30th, 2006, 10:16 AM
Well, remember the Others have yet to come in force to the camp to take the "good ones" like they did to the tailies. They've clearly taken Jack, Sawyer, and Kate for another reason altogether - quite possibly to leave the camp without a leader so there will be less resistance when they come.

Also, remember we don't yet understand what the Others mean by "good people." The standards by which they are judging the castaways may be quite different than what we think of. We don't even know if Fenry (heh, that's cute) was even telling the truth when he said he was coming for Locke. We don't yet know the circumstances that left Locke confined to a wheelchair; he might yet have done something very wrong.

Hmmm...

Backstory questions still unresolved:
- How Locke wound up in a wheelchair
- How Libby wound up in a mental institution/in Australia/on a plane back home
- How Hurley got his nickname
- Why the CIA picked up Sayid
- Where Jack got his tatoos

Did I miss any?

memnarch
May 30th, 2006, 07:14 PM
Well, remember the Others have yet to come in force to the camp to take the "good ones" like they did to the tailies. They've clearly taken Jack, Sawyer, and Kate for another reason altogether - quite possibly to leave the camp without a leader so there will be less resistance when they come.

Also, remember we don't yet understand what the Others mean by "good people." The standards by which they are judging the castaways may be quite different than what we think of. We don't even know if Fenry (heh, that's cute) was even telling the truth when he said he was coming for Locke. We don't yet know the circumstances that left Locke confined to a wheelchair; he might yet have done something very wrong.

Hmmm...

Backstory questions still unresolved:
- How Locke wound up in a wheelchair
- How Libby wound up in a mental institution/in Australia/on a plane back home
- How Hurley got his nickname
- Why the CIA picked up Sayid
- Where Jack got his tatoos

Did I miss any?

Yes, actually:
-Who the real Mr. Sawyer is (I think Locke's dad)
-What happened when Hurley got in his accident that caused his mental breakdown
-Is Claire's psychic really psychic?
-How did Desmond end up in jail?

That's all I've got.:)

ItsDan
May 30th, 2006, 10:14 PM
It was all but said that Hurley's breakdown was his guilt over his weight causing people to die.

memnarch
May 31st, 2006, 09:00 AM
True, but will we see this onscreen? Also, I suspect that this incident may be how Locke got into a wheelchair. It would be an interesting tie in...

PuddleJumper14
May 31st, 2006, 02:06 PM
Clearly, something broke down in the Dharma system. Relief stopped coming for the Swan, the notebooks stopped getting collected at the Pearl, and the other stations fell into disrepair. But the button kept getting pushed.

I'm just not sure about the Others anymore. I'm not sure how much they know about what's really going on. If they were test subjects in a behavioral experiment, and the Dharma Initiative abandoned them there for whatever reason, then they would have no way of knowing their situation was just an experiment and would have just kept on going. But on the other hand, some of them clearly understand what's really going on.

I'm just not going to speculate any more. Gonna wait till Season 3.

I don't know that it broke down as much as there was a change somewhere. Why would all the food have been dropped if they had been abandoned? Could just be that they didn't feel the need for the observation part of the test to continue. Perhaps new tests were created.
I think that not Henry might be the leader of the Others on the island but the real leader of the entire thing could be Penny's dad (who we saw in the finale with Desmond). He seems to be very tied in to this. It will be interesting to see if he starts popping up in people's flashbacks in season 3.

ItsDan
May 31st, 2006, 07:59 PM
It will be interesting to see if he starts popping up in people's flashbacks in season 3.

Or if he's already appeared in one of course.

Ascended_Elite_mercenary
June 1st, 2006, 02:02 AM
The whole thing with desmonds girlfriend, is obvious that she is someone of power, and also her dad could be the leader of the Dharma group.

guxagata
June 3rd, 2006, 08:00 AM
in reply to the dialog at the finale of ep 223, i confirm it is portuguese *Brazilian in this case, because of the accent

but i have to say 40 percent of the dialog is really badly spoken, and at least one of the actors is not portuguese/brazilian

details details... but i think small things are everything

nevertheless LOST rocks! looking forward to future seasons

Cheers from Portugal!

The Prophet
June 5th, 2006, 12:22 PM
Well, there are the questions about the Hanso Foundation, such as:

-Why do the Biographies of the Board Members not true?
-Why hasn't Alvar Hanso been seen since 2002/2003?
-Who's Persephone? Is she in anyway linked with Penelope (Desmond's ex-Girlfriend)?
-What's the deal with the numbers? (04,08,15,16,23,42,108,74188800)?
-What's the Deal with the Animals? The Polar Bear, (The Sawyer Boar), The Shark with the Dharma Logo on it's tail, Kate's Black Horse & the Large Kea Like Bird?
- What does DHARMA stand for & what is it (Hanso. says it's been cancelled ages ago).
-Where are they? :S
-What is this Monster/s?
-What's the Deal with the Asian Dharma Projecter guy? What's his real name & why does he have a prosthetic arm on one reel & not the other?
-What will happen to Michael & Walt)? Will his Murders of Libby & Anna Lucia be discovered? What will happen to him them? Will he be imprisoned indefinatly in the Swan's armoury akin to how "Henry gale" was?

jmallx
June 7th, 2006, 10:35 PM
Well, there are the questions about the Hanso Foundation, such as:
-What will happen to Michael & Walt)? Will his Murders of Libby & Anna Lucia be discovered? What will happen to him them? Will he be imprisoned indefinatly in the Swan's armoury akin to how "Henry gale" was?

Michael's treachery has already been discovered. Jack, Kate and Sawyer know, Sayid semi-deduced it and Hurley knows for certain.

ItsDan
June 8th, 2006, 04:56 AM
I think he meant if/when Michael and Walt get off the island.

ZatNKitel
June 8th, 2006, 07:23 PM
Did anyone else think that the "System FailureSystem FailureSystem..." message on the computer when the clock reached zero suggests that the entire hatch failure may have been somehow artificial? Maybe I'm just reading too far into the possibility of a "Failure System" instead of a System Failure. I mean if the Dharma guys can make a smoke monster...

Farfetched as it may be it could explain why none of the others seemed very worried about it.

AimTron
June 9th, 2006, 10:07 AM
They didn't seem to care and by their expression, had no clue what it was honestly. That's my opinion, but they look clueless to me.

PuddleJumper14
June 9th, 2006, 12:32 PM
I think we saw the last of Michael & Walt. I'm sure that the heading Michael was sent on will lead them back to civilization, or at least a waiting boat that can take them back to the real world.
I don't think we'll ever know what the "monster" was. It seemed very important until Echo stared it in the face. It hasn't been seen or discussed since then. I'm guessing that storyline is over, at least for now.

memnarch
June 10th, 2006, 07:51 AM
If the Others didn't care or didn't realize what had happened when the failsafe was pushed, then why did "Henry" seem like he knew of the button's purpose and didn't want it pushed in his manipulations of Locke?

AimTron
June 10th, 2006, 10:13 PM
I really do hope you actually watched the season. Guess you didn't? Had Henry NOT pressed the button, all hell would've broken loose. He pushed it and only told Locke he hadn't to cause dissention in the ranks of the survivors. What better way to cause trouble than to instill doubt. He was saying what he was saying purely to stir the pot.

If the hatch isn't important and he knew that, then sure he wouldn't care if they pushed it or not. If it is important and he knew it, I'd imagine he'd allow the pushing of it by not saying anything. Honestly, he has no clue.

If the hatch was containing the magnetic force that hid the island, surely Fenry would want them to continue pushing it. Nobody knows for sure though, but it sure as hell seems like they have no clue what anything on this island really does.

Naonak
June 11th, 2006, 07:35 AM
I don't think we'll ever know what the "monster" was. It seemed very important until Echo stared it in the face. It hasn't been seen or discussed since then. I'm guessing that storyline is over, at least for now.

According to one of the writers (Lindelof, or JJ, or somebody) we have seen the monster several times in season 2, we just "haven't realised it". I think it's something to do with the visions - Jack's dad in season 1, Kate's horse (that Sawyer saw as well), etc. Apparently we will understand by the end of season 3.

memnarch
June 11th, 2006, 04:56 PM
I really do hope you actually watched the season. Guess you didn't? Had Henry NOT pressed the button, all hell would've broken loose. He pushed it and only told Locke he hadn't to cause dissention in the ranks of the survivors. What better way to cause trouble than to instill doubt. He was saying what he was saying purely to stir the pot.

If the hatch isn't important and he knew that, then sure he wouldn't care if they pushed it or not. If it is important and he knew it, I'd imagine he'd allow the pushing of it by not saying anything. Honestly, he has no clue.

If the hatch was containing the magnetic force that hid the island, surely Fenry would want them to continue pushing it. Nobody knows for sure though, but it sure as hell seems like they have no clue what anything on this island really does.

Yes, I have actually watched the season, many episodes twice via itunes. My point was not whether Henry pushed the button then or not, because he obviously did. And I agree that Henry manipulated Locke to sow dissent amoung the survivors, as when he told Locke his "mission" was to bring Locke to the Others. However, I also believe that if Henry is the leader of the Others, then he knew that his fellows would have done everything in their power to get him back. If this is so, then it's possible that by telling Locke that he didn't push the button he wanted him not to push the button, eventually, knowing, or suspecting that he would be rescued by the time Locke managed not to push the button.

And I also believe that the Others, Henry included, definitely knew of the Hatch and possibly its purpose. Recall the statement Tom (Mr. Friendly) made to Locke in The Hunting Party: "Tell me, you go over a man's house for the first time, do you take off your shoes? Do you put your feet up on his coffee table? Do you walk in the kitchen, eat food that doesn't belong to you? [he looks at Locke] Open the door to rooms you got no business opening?"
He seems to be making reference to their knowing that the survivors are occupying the Hatch, which could indicate they know about the button. Also, and this may be stretching it, his referencing taking off one's shoes could mean that he was in the Pearl observing Locke's first entrance into the Hatch, where he took off his shoes.

Oh, and I'd also like to share my theory about the numbers transmission that Leonard and his friend heard (the one repeating the Numbers over and over). I think it may have been Radzinski or possibly Kelvin who sent out the transmission. If Radzinski was driven mad by the button and the Numbers, then it's possible he sent out the message of the numbers in his depression or madness.

AimTron
June 12th, 2006, 11:34 AM
Knowing that a group of people are now inhabiting one of the hatches doesn't mean they know what the hatch does. Remember the orientation videos, when the experiments were going on (under control depending on which theory you buy into) the "lab rats" didn't know about what they other experiments were, only that theirs was the most important. It is extremely possible that the Others witnessed what Locke was doing and how they had entered the Hatch without knowing what that Hatch's job assignment was to be. For all we know, the Others could be some of the "lab rats" themselves. I don't think Henry had any way of letting his people know even if he managed to get Locke not to push the button. I honestly don't believe ANYONE has been in the Pearl in a long time, far reaching any chance for any of the Others to have been there watching. If I remember right it was covered and it had growth over it. The door was rusted shut a bit, and I doubt that much oxidization would occur if it had recently been opened. The great thing about this show is there's a million possibilities, but if you're an Other, why even bother acknowledging the noise/explosion if you already knew what it was that caused it?

I'm sure we've all noticed they hardly ever talk about the radio tower and its transmission. Originally, Rousseau said it transmitted the numbers, but that she had changed it to a distress signal. It very well could've been transmitting the numbers as long as they were being pushed...etc. Nobody knows for sure. There are alot of possibilities. Another issue not tied up is the smoke cloud creator or the huge cable running into the ocean. I mean there's just too much to be able to roll up into a neat package just yet.

ItsDan
June 12th, 2006, 11:34 AM
Perhaps Walt's ability to 'appear where he shouldn't be' and the smoke monster are the same. The monster may be another person or person's projection.

rarocks24
June 20th, 2006, 06:58 PM
Perhaps Walt's ability to 'appear where he shouldn't be' and the smoke monster are the same. The monster may be another person or person's projection.
That still doesn't explain in the first season the smoke throwing someone into the engine of a jet. :rolleyes:

If it was really a projection of a person, who was it a projection of? Ethan Rom (I still think he shouldn't have been killed...it's also possible that Ethan Rom is someone high up in the Dharma folks/Others. I mean he was a doctor, supposedly. :cool: )? I think it's an alien that Dharma found. :P

ItsDan
June 21st, 2006, 07:10 AM
We don't know ghost-walt isn't able to touch things.

Darkstar
June 27th, 2006, 03:39 AM
That still doesn't explain in the first season the smoke throwing someone into the engine of a jet. :rolleyes:

If it was really a projection of a person, who was it a projection of? Ethan Rom (I still think he shouldn't have been killed...it's also possible that Ethan Rom is someone high up in the Dharma folks/Others. I mean he was a doctor, supposedly. :cool: )? I think it's an alien that Dharma found. :P

Maybe thats the whole idea, i mean i find it hard to put "lost" into a specific category, do i put it into a science fiction or just a drama, but if it does involve some kind of other worldly creature then its a sci fi show, maybe the whole idea of the operation was that on this remote island a alien creature of dare i say it creatures arrived on earth/crashed on earth and some organisation got wind of it, maybe they had been following them for many decades before and decided to try and use this but only on a secluded island away from prying eyes and the experiment went wrong because they didn't understand what they were dealing with, trapped on this island the rest is just coincidence and fate perhaps :D

Food for thought

*E*K*R*
June 27th, 2006, 04:13 AM
with regards to the genre... it is really difficult to say what it is.

i also think though that its a bit like sherlock holmes where it sets up storylines that have a scifi/ mythological feel to them, then later on in the season (story), there is a slightly more scientific explanation. For example the polar bear- for ages that was a huge mystery, but then when the first dharma hatch was found it hinted that the experiments they were carrying out somehow involved them- so dharma could have transplated them to the island for tests- that still might not be the case, but it offers you potential sciency reasons for things.

i think its offering the viewers a choice as well... whether they want to be 'men of science' or 'men of faith'

i'm looking forward to finding out more about the 'monster' - should be interesting.

another thing that should be interesting is the mystery of jack's tattoos (which apparently we will find out about in season 3)

does anyone know when season 3 will air?

Scoobing
July 3rd, 2006, 05:51 PM
Season three will begin airing on October 4, 2006. It will include 23 episodes that will be delivered in two blocks: an initial autumn arc of six episodes and a second run of seventeen consecutive episodes beginning in February 2007.

alaskannut
September 20th, 2006, 09:31 PM
True. I hope you are right. Before this episode, I found Desmond excess baggage, so to speak. Thats completely changed. I felt for him and would really love to see him able to participate (in 'alive' mode) in developing the story of Pen and Des.
from the spoilers I've seen he is very much alive--the third or fourth episode (can't remember which) is supposed to be about him

Metarock Sam
September 26th, 2006, 04:18 PM
WOOOOOOOOOW
what a finale !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
We finally got to see what happened To Desmond !!! and not only that but in 3 out of 4 flashback scenes there was a connection to another character.
Desmond met Libby in the shop, he then was parking and about to go running with Jack and finaly he was taken into the Hatch by Kelvin. The man who taught Sayid how to be a torturer !!!!!!
It was also great to see the button issue resolved and im glad it did turn out the way it did in the sense of storytelling (if nothing did happen then this episode would have been pretty sucky no offense but throught this episode I was mostly concernd with the Hatch than Jack and co. being captured.) and now we are faced with an interesting dilemma such as what is happening to Charlie. We now know that Eko Des and Locke survive and also in new screenshots it appears locke is talking through writing things down and pictures for charlie. This suggests one or two things. either Locke cant speak or Charlie cant hear. id go with the former now after properly watching this episode
It was great to finally see Fenry with the Others too !! he looks like he holds some kind of authority over them. This is interesting too. Perhaps Fenry allowed himself to be captured. Also he must have pushed the button and lied to Locke to mess with his head. I dont see any other option.
I could go on for more and more but I need sleep

so at the end of this I give this ep 10/10 for sheer Brillaince and Such a clifffhanger I cant wait for Season 3 :D

Descent
October 2nd, 2006, 06:57 AM
I just watched my season 2 DVDs and noticed that Libby said that her dead husband's name was David while she was talking to Desmond. Since she was in the psych ward with Hurley, I wonder if her David is the same as Hurley's Dave.

Nice catch! I never thought of that before. Man this show makes my head hurt. :P :S

Greal
April 22nd, 2007, 08:24 PM
wow, nice part