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GateWorld
April 30th, 2004, 12:55 PM
<DIV ALIGN=CENTER><TABLE WIDTH=450 BORDER=0 CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=7><TR><TD STYLE="border:0;"><DIV ALIGN=LEFT><FONT FACE="Arial" SIZE=2 COLOR="#000000"><A HREF="http://www.gateworld.net/sg1/s7/713.shtml"><IMG SRC="http://www.gateworld.net/sg1/graphics/713.jpg" WIDTH=160 HEIGHT=120 ALIGN=RIGHT HSPACE=10 VSPACE=2 BORDER=0 STYLE="border: 1px black solid" ALT="Visit the Episode Guide"></A><FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#666666">DISCUSS ...</FONT>
<FONT SIZE=4 COLOR="#0066BF"><B>GRACE</B></FONT>
<FONT SIZE=1>EPISODE NUMBER - 713</FONT>
<IMG SRC="/images/clear.gif" WIDTH=1 HEIGHT=10 ALT="">
Carter is injured when the Prometheus is attacked by an unknown ship, and awakens to find herself stranded alone in deep space.

<B><A HREF="http://www.gateworld.net/sg1/s7/713.shtml">Visit the Episode Guide >></A></B></FONT></DIV></TD></TR></TABLE></DIV>

jenniferhailey
May 3rd, 2004, 11:23 AM
This episode was extremely disappointing.

The Sam episodes recently have been few, and when they finally get around to doing one, it's not very good.

It's not Amanda's fault at all, it's just it's an average episode. Nothing special at all.

I do however like the kiss. I don't like the part where she decides to date again. Boo! :eek:

Bacardi
May 3rd, 2004, 11:26 AM
did we ever work out 100% who grace was? i know theres been a lot of opinions on the subject..

Major Clanger
May 3rd, 2004, 11:28 AM
it has about 30 mins to run on Sky Mix... I've just given Mr.MC a heart attack by running screaming from the room when he suggested I watch it.

He's confused about the Status of Stargate in our house now.

But honestly, this ep jars so much I can't even look at it. Although, there are some fab moments when we see how Sam percieves her team members.

Dani347
May 3rd, 2004, 12:30 PM
I will NEVER watch this episode again. Does that tell everyone what I think of it?

jenniferhailey
May 3rd, 2004, 12:48 PM
I believe Amanda's theory was Grace is the child she could have had had she not been on SG-1 and put her career first.

Thats what I think too. :)

SGSlugger
May 3rd, 2004, 01:07 PM
Light spoilers.....


For me 'Grace' really didn't have any point. They never explained who those aliens were. Furlings? Romulans? And why they didn't get Carter as well.
We got to see some stuff from her point of view, but that was about it.

bcmilco
May 3rd, 2004, 02:03 PM
And why they didn't get Carter as well.

Because she didn't get off in an escape pod? :)

SGSlugger
May 3rd, 2004, 03:02 PM
Spoilers......



haha bcmilco. I was under the impression that they were all transported out (since they were beamed back in), and since they didn't say "Abondond ship," how do we know that they weren't?

bcmilco
May 3rd, 2004, 07:46 PM
I was actually semi-serious, because when she's looking around the ship there were no escape pods left, that lead me to believe the crew had used the escape pods.
Just don't ask me when they used them, or how the other ship picked them up, othewise that's the impression I got. :)

Skydiver
May 4th, 2004, 05:48 AM
i enjoyed it jsut because, for the first time in years, there was actually an episode about sam.

maybe it's the old lit. student in me, but there was so much hidden meaning or themes in this, that it was fun to watch.

the boys were each a part of her, teal'c her warrior training, daniel the scholar, jacob her regrets, jack...her finally accepting that she's controlling her future?

grace....grace could have been a lot of things. she could be her future, she could also be the childhood sam lost when her mother died. she's could also be the part of sam that she denies...the part of her that's been lost under years of 'general's daughters don't behave that way'

i think, inside, sam is rather mischievous and ornry...but she doesn't dare show it

stargate barbie
May 9th, 2004, 06:33 PM
i liked this episode. i really did. i especially loved sams interpretation of daniel.
i think grace might be a representation of sams "inner child" and i think her physical appearance might be how she would imagine her own child would look.

and i'm with bcm on the escape pod thing. it makes the most sense other than sam fell into a plot hole when she was unconscious. :)

GhostPoet
June 1st, 2004, 11:52 AM
I'm actually shocked so many didn't like this episode.

I think it's probably one of my all time favorites. Not only is it nice looking...but the episode alone is VERY atmospheric..to the point of being almost spooky. She's alone on a ship, keeps hearing little sounds here and there...she's already spooked out and she sees what she believes at first to be figments of her imagination.

Sam was also well acted.

It was a fantastic episode. VERY atmospheric.

dorien
June 1st, 2004, 07:22 PM
I was actually semi-serious, because when she's looking around the ship there were no escape pods left, that lead me to believe the crew had used the escape pods.
This is the first explanation I've come across that maybe sheds light on why Sam was left behind. But were the escape pods actually gone? Sam thought she was out there longer than the four days she was missing. This made me think that perhaps not all the events she thought happened had happened. Were the pods really gone? Were multiple simulations run? Did she repackage food? Did she record a ship's log? Corraboration or the lack thereof from the Prometheus after the fact would have given some insight into the extent of Sam's head injury. Just what was real?

I've wondered if her being left behind had something to do with the wave distortion effect we see that seemed to come from the open crystal compartment. Was this caused by the enemy weapon fire? Or the ship entering the cloud? Or something else?

This was an interesting puzzle of an episode once I got past my eyerolling reaction that the Prometheus was involved. I really liked how the other members of SG-1 were slightly not themselves as they represented different aspects of Sam's personality. Or maybe this is how she sees them. A good character exploration episode.

majorsal
June 1st, 2004, 09:57 PM
I'm actually shocked so many didn't like this episode.

I think it's probably one of my all time favorites. Not only is it nice looking...but the episode alone is VERY atmospheric..to the point of being almost spooky. She's alone on a ship, keeps hearing little sounds here and there...she's already spooked out and she sees what she believes at first to be figments of her imagination.

Sam was also well acted.

It was a fantastic episode. VERY atmospheric.

I love this ep! As a Sam fan and as a shipper.

As a Sam fan, it delved into Sam's mind. Each one of her teammates represented something in her self. Teal'c the protector and warrior (the cowardly lion). Daniel the inquisitive and open-minded (the tin man). Jacob was her choices and self doubt (the wizard). Jack was her self respect and heart (the scarecrow). Yes, Sam was Dorothy, trying to find her way home.

I'll admit there were parts that I couldn't understand -Grace's true identity and who the aliens were- but there were so many things that I loved that it over-shadowed the questions.

As an S/J shipper, I loved it as well. Never will forget that kiss of all kisses!

This ep set Sam on a road of self discovery. I can't wait to see where it leads her.

Sally :)

Madeleine
June 1st, 2004, 11:43 PM
AT has won a Leo for her acting in Grace.

Congratulations to her, she is a good actress and deserved her award.

Anubis
June 2nd, 2004, 02:02 AM
Congrulations Amanda Tapping on her award for Grace, and congrulations to Michael Shanks for his acting in Lifeboat

Gaterelle
June 2nd, 2004, 04:01 AM
This ep is one of my faves in season 7 although the plotting to get it going is awfully done. :P
Still, it's a great ep for Sam and AT to act her cutsey butt off. :)))
I'm glad she won the Leo Award for it.

I recently read this Episode Guide...
http://www.scifi.com/stargate/episodes/season7/0713/

and I'm a little...confused as to how they interpret the "ship" scenes.
Am I the only one who hears that Jack (herself) is telling her to move on and get over him?! Which in itself is why I like the episode...because it shows her that she's just infatuated with him because she wants a father figure and is afraid that if she really falls for a guy, he'll die.

GhostPoet
June 2nd, 2004, 11:50 AM
This ep is one of my faves in season 7 although the plotting to get it going is awfully done. :P
Still, it's a great ep for Sam and AT to act her cutsey butt off. :)))
I'm glad she won the Leo Award for it.

I recently read this Episode Guide...
http://www.scifi.com/stargate/episodes/season7/0713/

and I'm a little...confused as to how they interpret the "ship" scenes.
Am I the only one who hears that Jack (herself) is telling her to move on and get over him?! Which in itself is why I like the episode...because it shows her that she's just infatuated with him because she wants a father figure and is afraid that if she really falls for a guy, he'll die.

What I gathered from it is that She is infatuated with Oneil because she knows she and him can never be together...I think she's afraid of commitment...and by having a thing for Jack..a thing that just isn't possible..it's a safe thing. She also can't get hurt..because the relationship can never go anywhere but where it is..it's a comfort zone I think.

bcmilco
June 2nd, 2004, 12:29 PM
I took her introspection to mean that she was/is confused about her own feelings and she was afraid that she was using Jack to keep from being hurt, which is why we got "Chimera"; she was trying to get out there and take that risk again.

However I don't think now, nor did I think then that it was in any way ending anything, for which I'm glad. :)

taupecat
June 2nd, 2004, 03:30 PM
I'm actually shocked so many didn't like this episode.

Me too. There have been a lot of complaints that Sam's been "weak" and "girly" in S7. I don't see it that way at all.

Sam's such a strong woman, but who's to say she has to be so strong ALL the time? Can't she have her bad days? Months? The occassional year? What woman doesn't start doubting herself from time to time, wondering where her life is taking her and who it's taking her with? I think it's perfectly in character for Sam to start wondering these things. I don't think it's "weak" of her to want a man in her life, especially since the one she wants is unattainable. What's wrong with companionship? Having someone to come home to, and not wanting to live one's life alone?

That said, I think that Pete is just a fling and somehow Sam will find her way back to Jack. There, I said it.

Besides, you gotta love that kiss, even if it was all in her head.

Dani347
June 2nd, 2004, 04:45 PM
Besides, you gotta love that kiss, even if it was all in her head.

Er, not really. I mean about loving it.

Liebestraume
June 12th, 2004, 07:19 PM
Besides, you gotta love that kiss, even if it was all in her head.
Thing is, though, not even in her head did The Kiss happen. The "before" and "after" scenes clearly indicated that, even in her state of hallucination, Sam was suppressing that urge. Certainly said a lot about her. I thought it was a brilliant touch.

Selmak
July 11th, 2004, 09:21 AM
This is one of those episodes at the end of season 7 that was lacking.

Selmak
July 15th, 2004, 09:56 PM
It was well acted... we get to see jake... even if he was a hallucination.

disforw
July 27th, 2004, 12:08 PM
1) why does Jack showup in civilen cloths but Dan & til'c are in uniform?

2) who the hell war that ship?? (i know this was discused)

Anubis
July 27th, 2004, 03:00 PM
Go to the Season Seven episodes thread for Grace. This should give you some more understanding! ;)

MasterPower
July 27th, 2004, 03:28 PM
I thought Grace was the worst episode ever.

THE BIG UNIT
July 27th, 2004, 03:55 PM
I loved this episode, one of my all time Favourites, we finally get an episode about Sam. It had a great feel to it. it was really interesting to see how she viewed Daniel, Jack, Tealc and her dad, especially Daniel, he was different. the child Grace could mean alot of things, a child she never had because of her career, a lost childhood - going by that bubble scene even before her mum died it looked as though she was more interested in seeing how things were made than having fun.
I'm also very surprised that so many people didn't like it. And i never once saw sam as weak and girly in season 7 at all. she's had a hard life. i also can't understand some people saying she got too much screen time in season 7 as well. personally i think that Season 7; though obviously Jack lite (which i dont mind due to RDA's reasons) was great for the characters of Sam and Daniel and Teal'c.
About Sam saying jack is a type of comfort Zone, and that shes afraid to love someone because it must enevitably end in pain, i cant blame her and that was no big suprise for me, just look at her history, every one she cared about usally ended up dead

KorbenDirewolf
July 27th, 2004, 07:27 PM
1: It was all (or most) in Carter's head.


2: Some really powerful aliens with the exact technology level needed to leave Carter alone on the BC-303 so she could have dreams about stuff.

disforw
July 27th, 2004, 11:06 PM
i think this is 'Gaw Jus'

Anubis
July 28th, 2004, 01:30 AM
It was a poor episode, I agree!

Elwe Singollo
July 28th, 2004, 06:55 AM
The thing that i did like about the episode was the mystery behind that big ship that overshadowed the prometheus, and me still wondering what it is :rolleyes:

Tok'Ra Hostess
July 28th, 2004, 02:55 PM
The thing that i did like about the episode was the mystery behind that big ship that overshadowed the prometheus, and me still wondering what it is :rolleyes:

Yes. The point of this ep was to investigate, not the enigma wrapped in the mystery, but the puzzle Sam was walking around with(Stargate to Atlantis-The Lowdown: PD's definition of DJ). :D

Sam_o_Neill
July 29th, 2004, 05:27 AM
Hi :)
Does anyone here know where I can find a good quality close up image of Grace??? Usually I rely on Thalassa to get all my pics but there has been something wrong with her site lately :(

And my thoughts on Grace:
I thought this episode was good, AT was brilliant and I love the kiss but I didn't like the fact that she was telling herself (through Jack) to get over Jack and to move on wIth her life!!! Why would she do that! And what makes it even worse is that in the very next episode after that she actually has a boyfriend!!! :( I know that it is probably what the 'real' jack would say becaus ehe is nice like that and he would want Sam to be happy but still...:S
And as to who Grace is, I think she is the child Sam wants to have(with Jack :P) in the future :D

Thanks for any help with the pic,

Tok'Ra Hostess
July 29th, 2004, 06:39 AM
I enjoyed Grace, very much. You can never get too much,... no, wait, let me rephrase that: I can never get too much Sam on the show :p


Sam thought she was out there longer than the four days she was missing. This made me think that perhaps not all the events she thought happened had happened. Were the pods really gone? Were multiple simulations run? Did she repackage food? Did she record a ship's log? Corraboration or the lack thereof from the Prometheus after the fact would have given some insight into the extent of Sam's head injury. Just what was real?

I think she did stay on the ship much longer than the four days.

Remember what Jack said when Sam asked how long she'd been out there: "It's all relative Carter, that whole time space continuum thing."

Obviously Jack had been debriefed by the Captain of the Prometheus who, along with his crew, would have experienced the same time dilation, without the massive concussion.

crimsontide101
July 29th, 2004, 02:59 PM
AT has won a Leo for her acting in Grace.

Congratulations to her, she is a good actress and deserved her award.

Sorry but i could care less about the acting as long SG keeps me happy with cool visual affects.
And thought.. why dont the writers ever put a period after any episode ending, who the heck were in that alien ship, who the heck was that guy in fire and water episode, who the heck were any of the aliens they meet all the time.. and do they know who the ancients were?

Replicarter
August 15th, 2004, 08:54 AM
http://www.alphawebspace.com/~karl/GWPT.gif

Why do you all keep calling Sam AT and saying she’s acting, your treating it lick a TV show or something, anyway, I liked Sam in this episode and liked the little conversations with her self, and so exited about the kiss at the end, but it wasn’t real so that not good :( hope she does it again, but for real.

http://www.alphawebspace.com/~karl/GWPB.gif

SeaBee
August 22nd, 2004, 04:15 AM
This was not my favourite episode. It leaves me with too many un-answered questions, such as:
Who were the occupants of the other ship?
What did they want with the crew?
Who was Grace?

And why does the alien ship look like a Romulan Warbird? ;)

zats
August 22nd, 2004, 08:00 PM
My favorite episode. AT shone and the plot was brilliant. I loved how they never cleared everything up--what the cloud was, whether Sam was a prisoner or not, who Grace was, and of course the whole Jack/Sam scenario. Left everything open to interpretation. My own personal theory was that she'd decided to keep after Jack--a theory that was promptly blown out of the water after Chimaera. Grrr. Oh, well. Still a great episode, both as a series and standalone.

Did anyone ever hear if AT got that Leo? I'll keep looking, but let me know.

Dragonlor
August 22nd, 2004, 09:22 PM
I enjoyed Grace. It was...interesting...and different. Hopefully some day we will find out who the owner of that ship was.

zats
September 7th, 2004, 08:02 PM
i think, inside, sam is rather mischievous and ornry...but she doesn't dare show it

In "Sam Carter's Diary" at her website (great fic, if you haven't read it, DO: http://homepage.ntlworld.com/wendy.parkinson/stargate/stories/samcarte.htm) Wendy Parkinson says something I love: "I’ve always had the suspicion that at least some of the time Sam is like a swan - the part you can see is calm and serene but she’s paddling like hell underneath...."

I see Sam in a whole new light now.

zats
October 4th, 2004, 12:46 PM
I think that Pete is just a fling and somehow Sam will find her way back to Jack. There, I said it.

Besides, you gotta love that kiss, even if it was all in her head.

Heck, yeah!!!

greytop
October 20th, 2004, 09:14 PM
Just finished watching Grace for the first time. I believe Grace is a persona of the gas cloud as dream Daniel suggested. It was the only one she did not know.

greytop
October 25th, 2004, 07:28 PM
I know that most of this thead is about who Grace is.

But to change the subject but still related.
How did the Prometheus get the Alkesh hyperdrive engine? If getting it was in another episode, whick one?

veneticuss
October 26th, 2004, 03:23 AM
Worse then this was maybe just Emancipation ....

Jane
November 6th, 2004, 07:54 AM
I don't know what to think of this episode, its good but at the sametimes its not. :S

LMichelle
November 13th, 2004, 09:56 PM
I liked it. I liked everyone trying to help her. I wish we had more scenes with Sam and Grace. It was never quite clear who the child was supposed to be. I always enjoy the Sam/Jacob stuff.

My favorite line was: "Were you this annoying when you were ascended?" ROTFL! :D

.:Lemon:.
November 13th, 2004, 10:11 PM
I don't know what to think of this episode, its good but at the sametimes its not. :S

Thats how I felt about the episode when I first watched it :D I quite like it now though, after watching it a second time.

jckfan55
November 16th, 2004, 06:22 PM
Just finished watching Grace for the first time. I believe Grace is a persona of the gas cloud as dream Daniel suggested. It was the only one she did not know.
To me Daniel's suggestion came off as a total Star Trek reference/ joke. They're always encountering sentient clouds or rocks or something. Especially with his delivery of the line. :)

zats
November 21st, 2004, 07:35 PM
Okay, okay, I know I've already posted some stuff on this ep, but to all the naysayers, I can only say: get over it. I like this episode and I'm putting off homework to boot.

I loved this one the first time I saw it, and its my favorite one to catch on reruns. Can't wait until I get Season 7 on DVD so I can watch it without having to search the schedules.

What was good:
a. Plot. This was completely unlike any other episode, especially given the number of loose ends left behind. Sometimes eps will end too quickly and something along the lines of deux ex machina comes to mind, but very rarely is one ended entirely open for speculation. This was one, and they nailed the amount of stuff that was left unsaid. Not too much, and not too little.
b. AT. She was brilliant. It's not often that we get to see another side of her character, and AT played it for all it was worth. There's more to Sam than Major Carter; she's also Samantha. As a side note, I liked her hair.

c. The gas cloud. V. pretty! I know that a lot of people have (strenuously) complained that we never discovered exactly what it was. Who cares? That's not important. Whatever it was turned out to be a blessing and a curse: it forced Sam to take a long step back and reevaluate what was important.

d. Grace. We never did find out who/what she was, but again, who cares? It's open to interpretation. Take some iniative. Think and decide for yourself. Doesn't matter if it's not what someone else thinks Grace was; there is no right answer. Enjoy the freedom.

Anyway, getting back to the subject at hand: my personal opinion was that she was Sam as a kid, but who knows. It could have been the aliens. Or the a child that Sam could have had in a different life. Or some sort of divine presence. Don't know. Was Grace brought on by the thunk on the head? By the aliens probing her cerebellum? Lack of sleep? Crack? Who knows? Point is, she guided Sam through the cloud and brought her out safely. And apparently stayed with her, at least for a little while: remember the song in the infirmary at the end? Point of interest: when I was choosing my avatar, my last two choices were Merrin and Grace. I went with Merrin because she's more like me in personality, but one of these days I'll probably change it to Grace.

e. The visions. God knows who they were. Hullucinations? The aliens' representations of themselves? Sam's wildly overactive imagination? Doesn't matter. They did what they did, and they told Sam what she needed to hear. Maybe not what she wanted to hear, given, but what you want and what you need aren't always the same things.

f. The bubbles. Wonderful imagery. They also made me think of fragility, which I thought was a thread in the episode.

g. The kissing scene. About time! Too few and too far between, but I suppose that's the opinion that comes with being a serious shipper.

h. The end scene in the infirmary. There is so much that can be read into that...ahhh. Makes fic writing absolute bliss.

What wasn't so good:

a. My take on the ending was that Sam decided she still loved Jack. I was midly (okay, not so mildly) ticked when they brought Pete in two eps later...but there's not much I can do to change the mandates of TPTB. In the meantime/until they kill Pete off (pleasepleaseplease), I write lots of alternate universe fics.

There hasn't been another episode that's put Sam in a situation like the one in "Grace", We haven't seen her confronted by...well, herself. It makes sense that she would react differently than she would to, say, an off-world firefight. Plus the fact that she didn't have the slightest idea what was going on. She didn't know if she was a prisoner. She didn't know if the crew had been captured. She didn't even know if she was in fact on the Prometheus. Am I the only one who thinks that it would be natural for her to be more than a little uncertain? In this one, she has no tangible enemy. The questions seem to be coming from inside herself. How do you defend against that, especially when you're not allowed to sleep to get away from it?

Look, it was a strange ep. I'll give the critics that. It didn't really follow in the usual pattern of episodes (character-driven instead of plot-driven; emotion instead of action/adventure; no neatly assembled ending; the list goes on and on). It was unlike anything that's been on the show before. But how is that a bad thing?

Some critics have said that Sam seems weak and girly. Yes, she cries. Yes, she has a few heart-to-hearts with herself. Yes, it reveals a new vulnerablity we hadn't seen before. No, she isn't blasting goa'uld spacecraft into oblivion or waving a P-90. But none of those make her 'weak' or 'girly'. They make her real.

A friend who's reading over my shoulder as I type this says that I'm taking this episode too seriously. I probably am. But what can I say? It's something I feel strongly about. Maybe it's because I don't like to see Sam purely as the perfect girl. Maybe it's because I like to see dimensions to a character. Maybe it's because I psychoanalyze people as a hobby. Take your pick. But if you have a reason to hate, detest, despise, etc. this episode, please don't do so because it's different.

A good episode--a really good episode--makes you think. This one made me think. Hard.

ADDED 12/05/04
All right, it's been a week and half. Someone please say something!

zats
November 21st, 2004, 07:41 PM
Holy buckets, that was long (looking up at previous post). Oops.

Erik Pasternak
November 21st, 2004, 08:12 PM
Zats, just a reminder, you don't need a spoiler warning for an episode when you're posting in the thread for that episode. :)

Rocket4477

zats
November 22nd, 2004, 01:48 PM
Zats, just a reminder, you don't need a spoiler warning for an episode when you're posting in the thread for that episode. :)

Rocket4477
Spoiler warning removed. Thanks!

Elite Anubis Guard
December 12th, 2004, 10:51 AM
interesting episode some nice development on carter and was the weapons guys atlantis chevron guy?

Crazedwraith
December 12th, 2004, 10:54 AM
interesting episode some nice development on carter and was the weapons guys atlantis chevron guy?
certinaly looked like it to me.

Elite Anubis Guard
December 12th, 2004, 11:00 AM
yeh glad im not the only who noticed!

Sam fan
December 12th, 2004, 11:16 AM
I've just re-watched this ep and I LOVE it! It's a really great Sam ep, I love the focus it has on her personal emotions, I loved the shippyness in it- I can see why people would say that should've ended the whole shippyness issue but for me it was her trying to convince herself to ger over him- she knew she couldn't find love with him (her dad had just told her about her not loving) so her mind (that's what he was after all) was trying to convince herself that Jack wouldn't mind if she tried to find love with someone else- the other thing that really made it shippy was even as they were having this mini resolution in her mind back on Earth Jack was beside himself with wirry and all angsty and soo on....

AlphaBlu
December 14th, 2004, 04:12 AM
IMO, Grace was Season 7's The Changeling. The Changeling was Season 6's best episode.

BYE

Lord Zedd
January 9th, 2005, 04:04 AM
Holy buckets, that was long (looking up at previous post). Oops.
Yeah quitte long to read it

charliejaneway
February 5th, 2005, 03:02 PM
As an S/J shipper, I loved it as well. Never will forget that kiss of all kisses!

Hell yeah!

Jeril
February 5th, 2005, 08:57 PM
I just saw this episode and wow. I really liked it. It was all introspective and in Carter's head most of the time and that stuff really draws me in. The character development was awesome, of course, and I loved how they delivered it. Nothing like having a good rousing conversation with yourself to come to understand why you act the way you do. :p

The little girl was kinda creepy at first though and when I first heard her singing Twinkle, Twinkle Little Star I thought I was the one hallucinating but after awhile, I liked her. She was just a cute chubby-cheeked cherub running around with bubbles. :D Loved that touch!! It was real cute.
And the last scene where her voice was heard singing again. That was interesting and an excellent end. Kinda a bit spooky because it makes you wonder if the little girl was really a physical personification of the cloud or just all in Carter's head.

Definitely liked Carter's interaction with the O'Neill her mind made up and the real one. Especially when she woke up and said, "Jack?" :p Silly Sam.
I had to chuckle a bit when the dream O'Neill said, "Let's face it; I'm not that complex." :D
That kiss though... :eek: all I think I can say about it is "rawr!" Lucky, lucky Carter... even if it didn't really happen...


To me Daniel's suggestion came off as a total Star Trek reference/ joke. They're always encountering sentient clouds or rocks or something. Especially with his delivery of the line. :)
Lol. I completely thought of Star Trek too when I heard him say that. It also reminded me of that sentient water that they encountered in season four, in the episode Watergate.

¤Denial-OF-Life¤
February 21st, 2005, 02:08 PM
I was thinking the ship slightly appears achen design due to looking at the harvester.........could it be uh oh.

kashi
February 21st, 2005, 02:58 PM
I thought the exact same thing when I saw it. perhaps the "new enemy" for season 9?

astrogeologist
March 22nd, 2005, 02:13 PM
KID IN A CANDY STORE
.
The opening scene in Grace.... I love this scene and how it shows Major Sam Carter. She’s walking with Colonel Ronson along the corridors of the Prometheus and they are talking about stopping for a little scientific observation of a nearby nebula while the alkesh engines cool down.

What I loved about this scene was how comfortable Carter and Ronson are with each other. They treat each other as colleagues – Ronson kids around with her a little and Sam just seems to be at ease. I loved seeing Carter interact with professional ease with colleagues outside of SG-1.

The scene also highlights Carter’s scientific enthusiasm – which hasn’t been highlighted with the same sparkle since the early seasons… ‘kid in a candy store!’

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audio clip for this scene (http://home.comcast.net/~molokini/GraceKidInCandyStore.wav)

Grace opening scene: The Prometheus flies in hyperspace.
RONSON: So this thing's different from a nebula? How?
CARTER: Well that's what makes it so exciting, Sir, we don't know exactly.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v235/accesspics/Graceopeningshots.jpg
RONSON: And it just so happens that this formation is in the vicinity of our next cool down co ordinates.
CARTER: It'll only be a little bit out of way, Colonel, I promise. All I ask is 2 hours tops.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v235/accesspics/GraceKidInACandyStore.jpg
RONSON: If only so I can see the expression on your face first hand.
The words kid and candy store come to mind.
CARTER: I'll try to retain my composure Sir.
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I also loved how Sam returned his kidding with her own humor - again, this short scene came across to me as Sam interacting with ease and humor with a colleague - just a short little scene that spoke volumes about the character to me. I really hope that we get to see more of this side of Colonel Sam Carter in Season 9 - professional, comfortable with her military position, attitude tinged with humor and a pleasure with what she'd doing! We need more AT smiles! :D
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Grace post 1 (#3250): opening scenes: Kid In A Candy Store (http://forum.gateworld.net/showpost.php?p=397717&postcount=3250)
Grace post 2 (#3267): Concussion, waking up, first hallucinations (http://forum.gateworld.net/showpost.php?p=398781&postcount=3267)
Grace post 3 (#3277): Hallucinations - some are annoying! (http://forum.gateworld.net/showpost.php?p=399386&postcount=3277) :p
Grace post 4 (#3287): Hallucinations and Reality (http://forum.gateworld.net/showpost.php?p=400470&postcount=3287)
Grace post 5 (#3306): Maybe It's Alive? (http://forum.gateworld.net/showpost.php?p=401300&postcount=3306)
Grace post 6 (#3313): Who Are You? (http://forum.gateworld.net/showpost.php?p=401300&postcount=3306)
Grace post 7 (#3341): Bubbles (http://forum.gateworld.net/showthread.php?t=6913&page=168&pp=20)
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The audio clip above is my first ever audio capture -- special thanks to NearlyCircular for the directions! Unfortunately, the sound quality probably isn't as good as it could be - I had to use my laptop to run the DVD and recording software as my main computer is busy with RL work! :p

The screen captures were also difficult as both actors were in constant motion as they walked along the corridors; consequently, the screen caps are all just a little blurry. In addition, the corridor was dimly lit (they seem to go for dramatic mood lighting a lot), which also made clear screen caps difficult to catch.
Photos are screen captures from the episode Grace
Transcript excerpts are from the Stargate SG-1 Transcript website (http://www.moon-catchin.net/transcripts.htm)
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astrogeologist
March 22nd, 2005, 02:15 PM
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Grace

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Good shot of Sam through the starchart with the ship's course plotted on it
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v235/accesspics/Gracestarchartcystalpanel.jpg
.......................................................Sam opens the hyperdrive crystal panel.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v235/accesspics/Graceunconscious.jpg
Ouch! I can't help thinking about AT getting knocked out in the elevator by Kawalski!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v235/accesspics/Gracewakingup.jpg
AT does a *fantastic* job of acting in this scene as she wakes up with the concussion.


Sam's first noticeable delusion... the first time she sees Grace.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v235/accesspics/Gracefirstsighting.jpg


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v235/accesspics/Gracenothingandnoone.jpg
The sublight engines won't work and all of the escape pods are gone.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v235/accesspics/Gracenothingworks.jpg
Sam tries to get the engines online, but nothing works.
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Sam then experiences another hallucination...

Audio clip for the following scene: (http://home.comcast.net/~molokini/GraceIfYouSleepYouWillDie.wav)
TEAL'C: Major Carter.
CARTER: Teal'c?
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v235/accesspics/GraceTealcappears.jpg
TEAL'C: Hear me. You must remain conscious at all costs.
CARTER: I just need to rest for a while.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v235/accesspics/GraceTealcStayAwakeorDie.jpg
TEAL'C: You cannot. Listen to me. You are injured. If you sleep, you will die. Do you understand?
CARTER: I know.
TEAL'C: If you sleep, you will die.
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I *love* AT's acting in this scene - it's superb! .. I also give kudos to the writers for interweaving SG-1 into Sam's concussed hallucinations - they stayed in character and played things so appropriately for Sam's delusions.
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Grace post 1 (#3250): opening scenes: Kid In A Candy Store (http://forum.gateworld.net/showpost.php?p=397717&postcount=3250)
Grace post 2 (#3267): Concussion, waking up, first hallucinations (http://forum.gateworld.net/showpost.php?p=398781&postcount=3267)
Grace post 3 (#3277): Hallucinations - some are annoying! (http://forum.gateworld.net/showpost.php?p=399386&postcount=3277) :p
Grace post 4 (#3287): Hallucinations and Reality (http://forum.gateworld.net/showpost.php?p=400470&postcount=3287)
Grace post 5 (#3306): Maybe It's Alive? (http://forum.gateworld.net/showpost.php?p=401300&postcount=3306)
Grace post 6 (#3313): Who Are You? (http://forum.gateworld.net/showpost.php?p=401300&postcount=3306)
Grace post 7 (#3341): Bubbles (http://forum.gateworld.net/showthread.php?t=6913&page=168&pp=20)
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Photos are screen captures from the episode Grace
Transcript excerpts are from the Stargate SG-1 Transcript website (http://www.moon-catchin.net/transcripts.htm)
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astrogeologist
March 22nd, 2005, 02:17 PM
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Grace: Hallucinations...some are annoying! :p
The following scenes contain some of my all-time favorite 'Sam lines'
and some of my all-time favorite acting scenes by AT.
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In spite of Teal'c's dire warnings, Sam passed out.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v235/accesspics/GraceDistressBeacon.jpg
When she wakes up, she sets the Distress Beacon.
That last shot - AT does a superb job of looking 'done'... she's tried everything she can think of right now, and she realizes that she's stuck on this ship alone, drifting in space until someone can find her. She also looks bored... thinking of the long, silent days ahead as she has to simply wait.

The second time that Grace appears. "Play with me." (http://home.comcast.net/~molokini/PlayWithMe.wav) (Click to listen to audio clip)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v235/accesspics/Gracesecondsighting.jpg
................................................................................ ..And then she's gone again.

--------

And then there's Daniel...
(I found this exchange to be hilarious!)

SAM: I've been trying to understand why the ship is unable to jump hyperspace. During my last jump attempt the hyperspace window seemed unable to stabilise enough for the ship to enter it. Thus far, sensors have been unable to identify the actual content of the cloud itself. It's more likely made up of a denser group of gases than that of a typical nebulae or gas giant. Bottom line is, it's preventing the hyperdrive emitter from transferring power at an even rate. Until that changes the Prometheus will remain trapped here indefinitely.
Click to listen to audio clip (http://home.comcast.net/~molokini/WereYouThisAnnoying.wav)
DANIEL: Yep, I'd say you're stuck all right. Oh come on Sam, you're running the same diagnostic for probably four hours now. What makes you think the results are suddenly gonna change? Sam? Hello?
<<<AT does such an wonderful job at looking *so* annoyed by her 'latest' halucination!
Makes me LOL every time I watch this scene!>>>
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v235/accesspics/GraceDanielWereYouThisAnnoying.jpg
SAM: Were you this annoying when you were ascended?<<<One of my all-time favorite 'Sam lines'>>>
DANIEL: I don't know, depends on who you ask. I thought I had a certain je ne sais quoi. Timing was so so.
SAM: No offence but I really don't have time for this. This is ridiculous, you aren't even real.
Click to listen to audio (http://home.comcast.net/~molokini/YoureMeTalkingToMe.wav)
DANIEL: Well I'm not so much me as I am you really. Part of your subconscious mind. So am I real? That's up to you I guess. Although the Socratic complications by my being here are quite fascinating.
SAM: Daniel.
DANIEL: Look, you just need some help, that's all. Can't you just try to go along with this?
<<<AT's acting and facial expressions are first-rate... she closes her right eye briefly to show the continued pain from the concussion's headache... quiet, no fanfare, just a quiet little eye movement - very well done, great acting. How did we get so lucky as to get an actress like this in a weekly scifi TV-series?>>>
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v235/accesspics/GraceDaniel2.jpg
SAM: You're *me* talking to *me*?
<<<Another of my all-time favorite 'Sam lines' delivered perfectly by AT!>>>
DANIEL: Yeah. Basically.
SAM: All right you have a point. I could use some help.
DANIEL: Thank you.

Click to listen to audio clip (http://home.comcast.net/~molokini/SeizeTheMoment2.wav)
SAM: Okay, what do you…I..want?
<<<LOL... What do you...I...want...(just how does one talk to one's-self?) LOL>>>

DANIEL: Well I think you're going about this all wrong.
SAM: This is helping?
<<<Again, ROTFL! Sam is having such a sarcastic, humorous internal conversation! *This* is helping? LOL! :p >>>
DANIEL: Wait a second, you've been looking forward to studying this gas cloud for weeks now. I mean isn't that the real reason you volunteered for this job in the first place? Now you're here, finally here and you're wasting your time running endless hyperdrive simulations.
SAM: In case you hadn't noticed, I've got a small problem on my hands Daniel. Mainly that I'm stranded.
DANIEL: Inside the very thing you've been looking at through a telescope for years. Come on, it's a chance to study something rare and exciting up close. Seize the moment.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v235/accesspics/GraceDanielSiezeTheMoment.jpg
SAM: Seize the moment?
<<<Love the incredulity on Sam/AT's face!:p >>>
DANIEL: I'm just saying, it's something new, something we've never encountered before, you're ignoring it. Does that sound like you?
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v235/accesspics/GraceDanielendhalucination.jpg
SAM: Daniel, I can't even think straight let alone stay awake.
DANIEL: Look, Sam, you have to check this out. Trust me, it's important.
Daniel disappears.
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Grace post 1 (#3250): opening scenes: Kid In A Candy Store (http://forum.gateworld.net/showpost.php?p=397717&postcount=3250)
Grace post 2 (#3267): Concussion, waking up, first hallucinations (http://forum.gateworld.net/showpost.php?p=398781&postcount=3267)
Grace post 3 (#3277): Hallucinations - some are annoying! (http://forum.gateworld.net/showpost.php?p=399386&postcount=3277) :p
Grace post 4 (#3287): Hallucinations and Reality (http://forum.gateworld.net/showpost.php?p=400470&postcount=3287)
Grace post 5 (#3306): Maybe It's Alive? (http://forum.gateworld.net/showpost.php?p=401300&postcount=3306)
Grace post 6 (#3313): Who Are You? (http://forum.gateworld.net/showpost.php?p=401300&postcount=3306)
Grace post 7 (#3341): Bubbles (http://forum.gateworld.net/showthread.php?t=6913&page=168&pp=20)
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Photos are screen captures from the episode Grace
Transcript excerpts are from the Stargate SG-1 Transcript website (http://www.moon-catchin.net/transcripts.htm)
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astrogeologist
March 22nd, 2005, 02:19 PM
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Grace: Hallucinations and Reality
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GRACE: When the blazing sun is gone, when he nothing shines upon.
SAM: Who are you? What do you want?
GRACE: Then you show your little light, twinkle twinkle all the night. Come on, this way.
Sam follows.
SAM: Wait!
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v235/accesspics/GraceThirdGracesightingthenTealc.jpg
Sam rounds a corner and Teal'c is there.
TEAL'C: Samantha.
SAM: Teal'c, did you see.. of course you didn't.
TEAL'C: I am here to warn you.
SAM: I know, I have to stay awake.
TEAL'C: That's not all. Everything may not be as it seems.
SAM: Well thank you but the fact that I'm talking to someone who's not really here kind of speaks to that.
"Everything May Not Be As It Seems" (http://home.comcast.net/~molokini/GraceEverythingMayNotBeAsItSeems.wav) (Click to listen to audio clip)

TEAL'C: On the contrary, I think it is you that's not here.
SAM: What are you talking about?
TEAL'C: I believe that you and the other crew members are being held prisoner aboard the alien vessel that attacked you.
SAM: How do you know?
TEAL'C: It is possible they are probing your mind. If so, any information obtained may be used to attack Earth.
SAM: Hold on. Even if you're right, what am I supposed to do about it?
TEAL'C: Nothing
SAM: Teal'c, give me something here.
TEAL'C: Very well. As you attempt to repair the ship's engines, you may inadvertently be divulging to your captors vital information concerning Prometheus technology. I do believe it would be prudent to do nothing.
SAM: I can't do that Teal'c.
"Do Nothing." (http://home.comcast.net/~molokini/GraceDoNothing.wav) (Click to listen to audio clip)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v235/accesspics/GraceTealcsecondhalucination.jpg
TEAL'C: Be careful Samantha.
SAM: Wait! Where you going? You're wrong Teal'c, I'm not on an alien ship. I'm right here.
"I'm Right Here" (http://home.comcast.net/~molokini/GraceImRightHere.wav) (Click to listen to audio clip)


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v235/accesspics/GraceWakingUpOnTheFloor.jpg
Sam wakes up on the floor.
SAM: This is real. This is real.
"This is real." (http://home.comcast.net/~molokini/GraceThisIsReal.wav) (Click to listen to audio clip)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v235/accesspics/GraceThisIsReal.jpg
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Every scene I watch in this episode, I am more and more amazed at the quality of the writing, directing, acting - and the scifi! In this episode, they simply did a fantastic job of creating a wonderful scifi story... it's got mystery, an alien spaceship, a nebula with unknown aspects, a lead character with a concussion, well-done scenes where reality and hallucination play in counterpoint, the other main characters play out scenes in Sam's delusions, humor, angst...wow!

Starting with the first couple of panels above, I love this scene where Sam follows Grace around the corner - and Teal'c is standing there. Sam starts to ask Teal'c is he's seen a little girl, then realizes that she's asking one delusion if he's seen the other one!

Love the way they had Teal'c play out in Sam's delusions... great caricatures and skewed perspectives on how Teal'c would act - perfect for a hallucination!

--And they used Daniel and Teal'c to play out dialogue that works through the various scifi scenarios that could explain what is going on. Here, Sam thinks through the possibility that everything she is experiencing are hallucinations controlled by the aliens in the hostile spaceship. Her Teal'c hallucination gives her someone to discuss it with - and it plays in-character for Teal'c.

I love the line where she replies to Teal'c's 'Everything may not be as it seems'
TEAL'C: That's not all. Everything may not be as it seems.
SAM: Well thank you but the fact that I'm talking to someone who's not really here kind of speaks to that.
Love how polite she is (thank you) even in her delusions :p - and I just love that line 'the fact taht I'm talking to someone who's not really here kind of speaks to that!' :D

I also love it when Teal'c tells her to do nothing and she says (in a perfectly pitched tired voice) 'Teal'c, give me something here.'
SAM: Hold on. Even if you're right, what am I supposed to do about it?
TEAL'C: Nothing
SAM: Teal'c, give me something here.

And then, when Teal'c says that he thinks that 'it would be prudent to do nothing' - and she says 'I can't do that, Teal'c.' Again, it's AT's voice and inflection that carry the scene for me. She's tired and hurting, but she can't just sit around and do nothing!

Then I love the scene where Teal'c leaves and Sam stands there alone in the corridor, 'I'm right here'. Well filmed, well framed, well acted! Rips my heart out!

One of the absolutely most memorable scenes of the entire episode was when the camera shot opens on Sam's unconscious face. She's lying on the corridor floor, where she apparently passed out. A door opens in the background (no explanation for that, btw), and Sam wakes up. Great camera closeup on her face and eyes. This episode was such a 'mental story' of Sam's struggles with the ship interwoven with her hallucinations, that the viewer is constantly questioning what is real and what is a delusion and what is going on and where things are headed... closeups of AT's face and eyes were perfect shots for this 'inside her head' story.

"This is real, this is real" (http://home.comcast.net/~molokini/GraceThisIsReal.wav) - AT said the words so perfectly, her tone and inflection conveying so much more than the words. The pain in her head and waking up on the hard corridor floor - 'This is real.' And she's answering the question of whether or not this is all a delusion controlled by the hostile aliens... it's not... 'This is real.'

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Grace post 1(#3250): opening scenes: Kid In A Candy Store (http://forum.gateworld.net/showpost.php?p=397717&postcount=3250)
Grace post 2 (#3267): Concussion, waking up, first hallucinations (http://forum.gateworld.net/showpost.php?p=398781&postcount=3267)
Grace post 3 (#3277): Hallucinations - some are annoying! (http://forum.gateworld.net/showpost.php?p=399386&postcount=3277) :p
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Photos are screen captures from the episode Grace
Transcript excerpts are from the Stargate SG-1 Transcript website (http://www.moon-catchin.net/transcripts.htm)
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astrogeologist
March 22nd, 2005, 02:26 PM
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Grace: Maybe It's Alive?!
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AT again shows the pain of the concussion headache without words or histrionics
- just a simple closing of her right eye for a short moment and then she moves on.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v235/accesspics/Graceventingatm.jpg
This was another portion of the episode that impressed me - the writers were really thinking about the scifi - venting the atmosphere as a way to try and get the ship moving (now I have no idea as to whether or not that would be able to get the ship enough velocity to get anywhere in a reasonable amount of time, but I'm not going to spoil things by running the physics equations! It's scifi, and this was a good brainstorming idea towards problem solving Sam's dilemma!).

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v235/accesspics/GraceVentingGrace.jpg
I also really liked this scene - where Sam sees Grace being sucked out (shades of Prometheus! Sam knows what this feels like!). And even though Sam knows that she's got a concussion, (a 'massive headache' and waking up on the floor every now and then are big clues), she can't take the chance that Grace isn't real. She shuts the doors and stops the atmospheric venting.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v235/accesspics/GraceStaggerdownhallwayDaniel2.jpg
Great job staggering out into the corridors to search for Grace.
And then look who shows up behind her... boy, does AT do a great job of looking annoyed again?! :p

Another of my all-time series favorite dialogue exchanges:
DANIEL: Hey! Have I told you my latest theory yet? It's really cool. Lose something?
CARTER: Did you see a…
DANIEL: Little girl?
CARTER: Yeah.
DANIEL: No.
Did You See A... (http://home.comcast.net/~molokini/GraceDidYouSeeA.wav) - click to listen to audio clip
I can't help laughing every time I hear that exchange - it's so old-time humor... something I could imagine hearing in a Bob Hope/ Bing Crosby movie.. or Jerry Lewis/Dean Martin movie... and yet, these lines would also fit in a Monty Python skit... LOL! And so infuriating to the logical-minded! How could he know she was looking for a little girl if he hadn't seen her... well, he is a hallucination...

And Sam takes it so well... I'd want to smack him. Hallucination or not! Of course, Sam is smarter than me and she knows that there's no point in trying to smack a hallucination... but I'd still want to do it!


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v235/accesspics/GraceDanielMaybeItsAlive.jpg
Here they use Sam's Daniel hallucination very well - using Daniel to let Sam think through the scifi possibilities that the cloud itself may be sentient (not a new idea in scifi, and one that scifi buffs would have been wondering if that's what the episode was heading towards). Very in character for Sam to visualize Daniel as the one presenting this idea to her so that she can take the more skeptical scientific approach.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v235/accesspics/GracePassingOutAgain.jpg
AT did a great job of passing out again! That slide down the exposed steel girder looked painful (I wonder whose idea it was that she do it right there? More bruises for AT! :( ) And the whole time she's hearing her Daniel hallucination go on and on about talking to the cloud... and that maybe Grace is the cloud's way of communicating to Sam. Right near the end, she looks like she wants to say something like, 'Hold on a sec, I'm pretty sure I'm passing out.' :p And even after she's collapsed face first onto the floor, she can still hear her Daniel hallucination telling her to talk to the cloud.

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Grace post 1 (#3250): opening scenes: Kid In A Candy Store (http://forum.gateworld.net/showpost.php?p=397717&postcount=3250)
Grace post 2 (#3267): Concussion, waking up, first hallucinations (http://forum.gateworld.net/showpost.php?p=398781&postcount=3267)
Grace post 3 (#3277): Hallucinations - some are annoying! (http://forum.gateworld.net/showpost.php?p=399386&postcount=3277) :p
Grace post 4 (#3287): Hallucinations and Reality (http://forum.gateworld.net/showpost.php?p=400470&postcount=3287)
Grace post 5 (#3306): Maybe It's Alive? (http://forum.gateworld.net/showpost.php?p=401300&postcount=3306)
Grace post 6 (#3313): Who Are You? (http://forum.gateworld.net/showpost.php?p=401477&postcount=3313)
Grace post 7 (#3341): Bubbles (http://forum.gateworld.net/showthread.php?t=6913&page=168&pp=20)
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Photos are screen captures from the episode Grace
Transcript excerpts are from the Stargate SG-1 Transcript website (http://www.moon-catchin.net/transcripts.htm)
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astrogeologist
March 22nd, 2005, 02:30 PM
I also have to give a thumbs up to the director of this episode for some of the great shots they have of AT. I really love the close up shots like the one above and I like the one of her waking up for the first time after her concussion when you see her eye open. That was a very cool shot..
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Grace: Who Are You?
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GRACE: Like a diamond in the sky. Twinkle, twinkle little star, how I wonder what you are.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v235/accesspics/GraceWakingUpAgaintoGrace.jpg
Sam wakes up on the floor...again.

SAM: My mother used to sing that to me.
GRACE: How obscure.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v235/accesspics/GraceHowObscure.jpg
SAM: I'm so tired.
GRACE: You can't sleep. Not yet.
SAM: Why?
GRACE: Because we need to talk.

--------

Sam is sitting at a table.
GRACE: Eat; you need to keep your strength up.
SAM: Do you have a name?
GRACE: I'm Grace.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v235/accesspics/GraceWhoAreYou.jpg
SAM: Who are you?
GRACE: You know.
SAM: No, I don't know.
JACOB: I'm your father.
SAM: Dad?
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v235/accesspics/GraceDad1.jpg
JACOB: I know it sounds corny but you get to an age, you get to an age where you think of everything you did wrong as a parent. Don't take this the wrong way.
SAM: I know, I don't look so good.
JACOB: I wanted so many things for you Sam. And look what it's brought you instead.
SAM: Sure, but the massive headache really takes the edge off it all.
Click for audio clip (http://home.comcast.net/~isruth/GraceMassiveheadache.wav)
JACOB: Are you happy Sam?
SAM: What?
JACOB: Just answer the question.
SAM: Well at the moment things are a little rough, but in general, sure I'm happy.
JACOB: No you're not. You're content, you're satisfied, you're in control and that's the problem.
SAM: Okay, I'm really not following here.
JACOB: I'm saying you're missing something vital from your life. And the sad part is you have no idea what I'm talking about.
SAM: Dad, I am happy. I've seen and done things most people couldn't even dream of. I have an incredible life.
JACOB: And yet you're alone.
SAM: Well lately the dating scene's been a little stale but then again I am marooned on a space ship.
Click for audio clip (http://home.comcast.net/~isruth/GraceDatingStale.wav)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v235/accesspics/GraceDadDatingSceneHasBeenStaleLately.jpg
JACOB: No, always. For as long as she was alive, your mother showed me a world beyond just ambition and career. She gave my life meaning and balance and it was my honour to love her for the short time she was with me. And if I were young again and I met her for the first time even knowing her fate, I would do it all again. That is love.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v235/accesspics/GraceDadmakesSamcry.jpg
Sam, I know you've denied yourself the experience because you think it must inevitably end in pain and loneliness. It's time to let go of the things that prevent you from finding happiness. You deserve to love someone and be loved in return.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v235/accesspics/GraceDad3.jpg
Sam looks around and Jacob is gone.
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The inclusion of "Twinkle, Twinkle, Little Star" was a wonderfully written and implemented idea for the story - allowing us a glimpse into Sam's childhood ('My mother used to sing that to me') and integrating it into the scifi storyline as it becomes Grace's song and sort of a haunting signature backdrop for this entire episode.
The scenes with Grace were well done. Grace appears and then disappears. Sam asks who she is, but doesn't get an answer from Grace - her Dad answers instead. Nicely written and filmed... just like dreams, the subconscious does not always supply answers and things don't always make sense when we are dreaming (or hallucinating...)... and just like in dreams, the subject and scenes morph one into the next and we are pulled along... usually not questioning things until we wake up.

I love almost all episode scenes between Sam and Jacob, and this one just about makes me cry. (AstroG goes looking for scenes of Rambo Kick-a$$!Carter to counter the effects of making these screen caps and audio captures...).

Some of my favorite lines were:
SAM: Sure, but the massive headache really takes the edge off it all.
Click for audio clip (http://home.comcast.net/~isruth/GraceMassiveheadache.wav)

and
SAM: Well lately the dating scene's been a little stale but then again I am marooned on a space ship.
Click for audio clip (http://home.comcast.net/~isruth/GraceDatingStale.wav)

Love Sam's humor - and how AT played it.

This entire scene with Jacob is a showcase for AT's acting prowess. Her facial expressions are perfect - she's *there* in the scene - she *is* Sam - she's playing it just like I'd expect someone to if I was sitting across from them and we were having this conversation. AT just makes it *real*. And she plays none of it over the top. My screencaps above do not do justice to the acting that AT provided for us in this scene.

The subject matter was also heartwrenching. Well-written dialogue for what Sam might think when having a concussion-induced delusion discussion with her father.


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Grace post 1 (#3250): opening scenes: Kid In A Candy Store (http://forum.gateworld.net/showpost.php?p=397717&postcount=3250)
Grace post 2 (#3267): Concussion, waking up, first hallucinations (http://forum.gateworld.net/showpost.php?p=398781&postcount=3267)
Grace post 3 (#3277): Hallucinations - some are annoying! (http://forum.gateworld.net/showpost.php?p=399386&postcount=3277) :p
Grace post 4 (#3287): Hallucinations and Reality (http://forum.gateworld.net/showpost.php?p=400470&postcount=3287)
Grace post 5 (#3306): Maybe It's Alive? (http://forum.gateworld.net/showpost.php?p=401300&postcount=3306)
Grace post 6 (#3313): Who Are You? (http://forum.gateworld.net/showpost.php?p=401477&postcount=3313)
Grace post 7 (#3341): Bubbles (http://forum.gateworld.net/showthread.php?t=6913&page=168&pp=20)
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Photos are screen captures from the episode Grace
Transcript excerpts are from the Stargate SG-1 Transcript website (http://www.moon-catchin.net/transcripts.htm)
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astrogeologist
March 22nd, 2005, 02:33 PM
.
Grace: Bubbles :D
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http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v235/accesspics/GraceBubbles.jpg
I love this scene with Grace. First Grace invites Sam to blow some bubbles, Sam declines... but then Sam starts talking about how bubbles fascinated her when she was a kid... and she enthusiastically starts explaining surface tension "I remember when I was a little girl I used to wonder how a bubble could exist. You see there's this thing called surface tension, when molecules bind together in a certain way…" But Grace doesn't want to hear it (actually calls the explanation boring...and my 'inner physicist' is wounded, but I know that lots of folks think science is boring... :S :eek: )...
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v235/accesspics/GraceSurfaceTension.jpg
Grace brings the bubble soap over to Sam to get her to play along. Sam joins in. I like how this shows the softer, playful side of Sam - and shows how well Sam can interact with children.
Love Sam/AT's smile at the end.

Now - I have to ask you -- how many of you would have thought that anyone could write a plausible Stargate scifi storyline that had Sam Carter blowing bubbles with a little girl? I love how the storyline of this episode let us see these personal glimpses into Sam's life and psyche.

----------------

SAM: What do you want?
GRACE: What do you mean?
SAM: Whoever you are, I know why everyone else keeps showing up,
why are you here? What do you want from me?
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v235/accesspics/GraceWhyAreYouHere.jpg
GRACE: I don't want anything. But you do. Then the traveller in the dark thanks you for your tiny spark. How could he see where to go if he did not twinkle so?
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v235/accesspics/GraceBubbles1.jpg
I was impressed by how AT played this without any lines.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v235/accesspics/GraceBubbles2.jpg
She's watching the bubbles and thinking about the corroding ship while explosions are going off all around. But she's paying attention to the hallucination from her subconscious - she knows that it means something.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v235/accesspics/GraceBubbles3.jpg
I didn't capture it as well as AT plays it on the film, but AT's face shows her puzzling through the possibilities and then she really focusses on the bubbles - you can almost see the wheels and cogs turning inside her mind. And then AT shows it on her face when Sam 'gets it'. This is such a short scene, but it's one of the cruxes of the main storyline. It's the explanation of why Sam was hallucinating about Grace blowing bubbles, and it's the answer to getting out of the cloud. ------------

And more kudos for the writers - they let Sam save herself (and the rest of the Prometheus crew), instead of having Jack or some other 'calvary' come in and save her. And not only did they let her come up with the solution, it was *so* in character. Smart!Sam got to save the day. And they wrote this episode so that it didn't simply look like Sam was presented with a problem and immediately pulled a solution out of thin air - instead, they showed her trying an idea, having it fail, then she'd try something else, and it wouldn't work, and then she'd have to go to Plan C and then D and then E.... until she eventually ran out of ideas that came quickly. So then she thought about it and came up with the idea to vent some air... but then she hallucinated Grace getting sucked out and abandoned that idea.

---------------------

GRACE: What are you looking at?
SAM: It's complicated.
GRACE: Try me.
SAM: I'm gonna try and save myself with a bubble.
GRACE: How?
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v235/accesspics/GraceBubbles4Neat.jpg
SAM: The hyperdrive won't fully engage because of the cloud but maybe it doesn't have to. If I can dial down the power flow to the hyperdrive emitter theoretically I should be able to cause a partial shift into hyperspace, essentially taking the ship out of the cloud's space time. Hopefully just enough to eliminate its effects on the sub light engines.
GRACE: Neat.
SAM: Yeah.
Click to listen to audio clip (http://home.comcast.net/~isruth/GraceNeatTechnobabble.wav)

I love how Grace asks what Sam is doing, and Sam just tells her that it's complicated, so Grace says 'Try Me.' (This is a great plot device to explain what Sam is doing to the viewer - they get to have Sam explain it to herself!). Sam launches into a quickie technobabble explanation, in layman's terms, and Grace's response is one of my favorites 'Neat!' :D AT's reaction is even better - she's a bit non-plussed (she's not used to people saying 'Neat' after some technobabble), but then she just has to smile - she is basically talking to herself and Sam does think it's neat! At any rate, I loved the whole exchange here between Sam and Grace. Beautifully acted and played out.

----------------

Loved the ending scenes where her Daniel and Teal'c hallucinations are asking her what she's doing - advising her to take the safer course of action and save herself first and then come back with help to try and save the rest of the Prometheus crew. Love how her Jack hallucination tells D&T to shut up and just let her work. :D

And Sam gets to be heroic again in the last scenes as she saves not only herself and the Prometheus crew, but also the crew of the alien spaceship. And Sam's willingness to risk trusting others is what makes it all work. Sam makes a deal with the previously hostile aliens, gets the Prom crew back and then uses the partial-hyperspace-time-shift-bubble to get both ships out of the nebula. Once there, it's all up to trust, because that hostile alien ship has them seriously outgunned... And this time Sam's trust works. The aliens quietly leave. Very in character to show Sam problem-solving and her willingness to risk trusting others and her willingness to act on the belief that others will also act honorably.

-------------

Awhile back on the thread, MajorSal asked what folks thought of Grace... did we think Grace was Sam as a child... or was Grace really (in scifi) a manifestation of some kind of sentient cloud? I couldn't answer that question earlier, because I felt that the episode didn't answer the question, and that the episode could work with either explanation. After doing these storyboards and comment-reviews of the episode, however, I think that Grace works best as Sam's hallucination of her 'inner child'... manifestations of facets of Sam's personality that we very rarely get to see on the show. In an interview that I read months and months ago, AT was asked what she thought Grace was... and AT's reply was that that question was not answered in the episode and that there were several possibilities... manifestation of the cloud, Sam's inner child, etc. AT then went on to say that she decided to play it as if Grace was Sam's inner child - and I think that I agree with AT's interpretation. I love the idea that I'm seeing into the personal side of Sam Carter... and that there is this bright, sunny playful kid in there.
-----------

Overall, I enthusiastically give the writers, directors and actors of Grace,
5 blue jellos
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v235/accesspics/bluejello.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v235/accesspics/bluejello.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v235/accesspics/bluejello.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v235/accesspics/bluejello.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v235/accesspics/bluejello.jpg
The episode ‘Grace’ exceeds the quality of most standard TV science fiction.
Writer: Damien Kindler; Director: Peter F. Woeste


More than six months before I got to see the episode, I had heard and read synopses of the show… Carter is stranded alone on the Prometheus… and has some time to think about her life. Now, stranding main characters on a ship is an old TV sci fi plot device, so, to be honest, the episode sounded fairly… boring. But then I finally got to watch ‘Grace’ (on the DVDs this past November) – and I was stunned at how well the episode was constructed, filmed and acted. The story was never boring… and in fact, the episode seemed to reach the end all too quickly. I have actually watched this episode three times now (and that was a first for me with a TV show episode), and I see more commendable attributes with each viewing!

We've said this before, but I want to repeat it:
Amanda Tapping’s acting was simply stellar - five-star http://forum.gateworld.net/images/gw_rating/rating_5.gif ! She truly acts – she doesn’t just stand in the scenes, say her lines and let the scene play out around her (as many TV actors do). She put forth an exceptional performance worthy of the cinema or theatre – and she was believable – and that believability, that veracity is what is so outstanding. And AT does this all the time, not just in Grace. And it's what makes AT stand out head and shoulders above almost all other actors.
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Grace post 1 (#3250): opening scenes: Kid In A Candy Store (http://forum.gateworld.net/showpost.php?p=397717&postcount=3250)
Grace post 2 (#3267): Concussion, waking up, first hallucinations (http://forum.gateworld.net/showpost.php?p=398781&postcount=3267)
Grace post 3 (#3277): Hallucinations - some are annoying! (http://forum.gateworld.net/showpost.php?p=399386&postcount=3277) :p
Grace post 4 (#3287): Hallucinations and Reality (http://forum.gateworld.net/showpost.php?p=400470&postcount=3287)
Grace post 5 (#3306): Maybe It's Alive? (http://forum.gateworld.net/showpost.php?p=401300&postcount=3306)
Grace post 6 (#3313): Who Are You? (http://forum.gateworld.net/showpost.php?p=401300&postcount=3306)

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Photos are screen captures from the episode Grace
Transcript excerpts are from the Stargate SG-1 Transcript website (http://www.moon-catchin.net/transcripts.htm)
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MissMonk
March 22nd, 2005, 11:30 PM
i felt this epsisode was great. i really loved it. i just read some of the posts here and realize alot of you dont, but i really did. i think amanda did a great job on it. although, i must agree, i haven't the foggest of what is going on half the time, but oh well. *shrugs* i still think its a good one.

Cassie
March 23rd, 2005, 04:41 PM
I loved this ep. IMO AT did a great job kept me interested all the way through!
Also loved the little girl she was soooo cute luved her hair too hehehe!
And being a S/J shipper I luved the kiss :D

Silver
March 26th, 2005, 02:30 PM
I know her performance has already been recognised (woo, woo!) but Amanda was absolutely amazing in this episode. Wow, she was so convincing... the level of Sam's emotion was portrayed really, really deeply.

Loved the whole concept of "Grace" and the insights into Sam's character - especially enjoyed how it was Jack that finally motivated her to successfully save herself, and also he who told the other guys to shut up and let her work. And Jack encouraged Sam to let him go and seek out a relationship of her own... adorable and v. emotional. :)

I enjoyed nearly all of the episodes in season 7 but Grace has to be one of my favourites. I guess you have to be a fan of slowish, emotional plots to love this one though - in fact there was a lot of that in this season. The more of this the better, I say. :)

SimilarCadence
April 9th, 2005, 07:48 PM
Zats writes:

"Some critics have said that Sam seems weak and girly. Yes, she cries. Yes, she has a few heart-to-hearts with herself. Yes, it reveals a new vulnerablity we hadn't seen before. No, she isn't blasting goa'uld spacecraft into oblivion or waving a P-90. But none of those make her 'weak' or 'girly'. They make her real."



Well, better late than never! (It's a little longer than a week and a half....) What a relief to hear someone say this!

I've read complaints on other threads about Sam not being tough enough during the last couple of seasons......that it's a terrible thing for her to show vulnerability (which I don't consider a weakness), indecision, emotional confusion. Those things certainly don't make a person "weak", they make a person real! (At least, if they're honest with themselves....)

It's great knowing that Sam can handle herself beautifully in tough situations, that she's a brilliant scientist, that she can hold her own in what some might consider "a man's world", but without the vulnerability, the conflicting emotions, the longing to love and be loved, she becomes nothing more than a two-dimensional character.......

I love the fact that Sam is allowed to be a real-live woman and a well-rounded human being. Amanda Tapping constantly amazes me with her depth as an actress.......

sg-1fanintn
April 10th, 2005, 02:00 AM
I'm also tired of critics saying Sam has gotten too soft. You're right. She's just being shown as a whole individual, just like most of us are. I posted this comment (that addresses the "girly" issue) in another thread a few days ago:

No matter what type of fiction it is, characters that aren't allowed to grow, change and react to their experiences become one-dimensional caricatures over time. I have seen some comments online about how the "ship" has ruined Sam's character, but I strongly disagree. In everyone's life, no matter how tough and smart and accomplished you are, there's someone who affects you so much that you turn into a blubbering mass of jelly. I actually think Sam has kept her professionalism well, considering the way Jack affects her. And he's a blubbering mass of jelly behind that stony face. We are all the sum total of our experiences. And, as we meet people, work with people, get close to people, we develop relationships built on common experience. I think the evolution of their relationship is very believable, and I think Amanda plays Sam's strengths and her vulnerabilities all so well. And she can also tell you so much about how Sam is feeling by just a gesture or a touch. I think she's an incredible actress!

sg-1fanintn
April 10th, 2005, 11:47 AM
Could someone answer a question for me? I usually dissect all the "ship" episodes, etc., but part of the exchange between Sam and Imaginary Jack in "Grace" has always puzzled me. It's listed below, and my question is this: If Sam feels Jack is so unobtainable, why is he a "safe bet"?

CARTER: Came to give me a pep talk?

O'NEILL: That's what friends are for.

CARTER: Friends?

O'NEILL: Hey. This is you talking here. Might as well be honest.

CARTER: What if I quit the Air Force? Would that change anything or is it just an excuse?

O'NEILL: I would never ask you to give up your career.

CARTER: Because you don't feel anything for me?

O'NEILL: Carter.

CARTER: I'd let you go right now if I knew.

O'NEILL: That easy?

CARTER: I didn't say it would be easy.

O'NEILL: Then what's stopping you if you really wanna know?

CARTER: I'm trying.

O'NEILL: Maybe it's not me that's the problem here. Let's face it, I'm not that complex.

CARTER: Me?

O'NEILL: Sam. I'm a safe bet.

CARTER: As long as I'm thinking about you, setting my sights on what I think is unobtainable, there's no chance of being hurt by someone else.

O'NEILL: Jacob was right. You deserve more. I will always be there for you, no matter what. Believe me.

CARTER: So what now?


O'NEILL: Go save your ass.

SimilarCadence
April 10th, 2005, 06:07 PM
Jack is a "safe bet" because he's unobtainable (due to regulations that forbid romantic relationships between two officers).

Because Jack and Sam can never be together as they are, Sam doesn't have to risk the possible pains/disappointments that a relationship in the "real world" encompasses. Especially in a relationship that means more to her than any other she has previously experienced......

Going hand-in-hand with that, I think also that due to her track record in romantic relationships (her former romantic interests all seem to die), she may be afraid of embarking on any others. It's emotionally safer for her to hang on to a "relationship" that hangs halfway between reality and fantasy, always kind of "there-but-not-there", never amounting to anything tangible.......always slightly out of reach.

What I found interesting about this episode was hearing what Sam's subconscious expected each of her friends to say to her in her fight for survival. Teal'c's dialogue stressed physical survival. Daniel's, mental/intellectual. Jack's and Jacob's, emotional.......

I'm sure others could express it better than I have, but that's my take on it!
I hope it all made sense......

sg-1fanintn
April 10th, 2005, 06:48 PM
Thanks! I like your take on it. All I could get out of it was that he was a "safe bet" because she knew if she was willing to give up something professionally, their relationship could become reality.

I'm just hoping for a positive resolution to their years of angst and yearning in S9. I don't even have to see it! Just so it's explained in script and TPTB acknowledge that they're together! However, seeing it would be even better, even if it's in flashback.

Any other interpretations?

Madeleine
April 10th, 2005, 07:19 PM
I thought 'safe bet' meant that they couldn't have a relationship so it was 'safe' for her emotionally to fall for him cos it would never go anywhere, as opposed to a real boyfriend who might want more - like commitment, marriage and all that dangerous jazz.

Lord Zedd
April 11th, 2005, 12:36 AM
I thought 'safe bet' meant that they couldn't have a relationship so it was 'safe' for her emotionally to fall for him cos it would never go anywhere, as opposed to a real boyfriend who might want more - like commitment, marriage and all that dangerous jazz.
yeah you are correct but I don't think that Jack would be a save bet. I still wonder what kind of Race was that ship??

Uber
April 11th, 2005, 01:13 AM
yeah you are correct but I don't think that Jack would be a save bet. I still wonder what kind of Race was that ship??
My guess is the fuzzy wuzzy Furlings...

:D

SimilarCadence
April 11th, 2005, 12:17 PM
Thanks! I like your take on it. All I could get out of it was that he was a "safe bet" because she knew if she was willing to give up something professionally, their relationship could become reality.

I'm just hoping for a positive resolution to their years of angst and yearning in S9. I don't even have to see it! Just so it's explained in script and TPTB acknowledge that they're together! However, seeing it would be even better, even if it's in flashback.

Any other interpretations?



I'm also hoping for a positive, definite, tangible resolution even if it's reduced to nothing more than a passing comment by Daniel or Teal'c about the beautiful engagement ring Sam is wearing!!! Or a photo on Sam's shelf of Sam and Jack's elopement!! (Excuse my imagination taking off........)

I really hope TPTB will indulge us with something a little more detailed than that though. I think the characters of Sam and Jack deserve more than a passing nod......

Like you, I'd like to see it with my own eyes, right up there on the screen!

SimilarCadence
April 11th, 2005, 12:25 PM
UberSG-1Fan, I just wanted to tell you how great your signature is! (I could watch it over and over----and I have, on occasion!)

ohshocking
April 11th, 2005, 01:24 PM
I'm also hoping for a positive, definite, tangible resolution even if it's reduced to nothing more than a passing comment by Daniel or Teal'c about the beautiful engagement ring Sam is wearing!!! Or a photo on Sam's shelf of Sam and Jack's elopement!! (Excuse my imagination taking off........)

I really hope TPTB will indulge us with something a little more detailed than that though. I think the characters of Sam and Jack deserve more than a passing nod......

Like you, I'd like to see it with my own eyes, right up there on the screen!
Me too! If they just get a random comment about, 'oh Sam and Jack are off on their honeymoon', as great as it would be to know that they ended up together, I'd be really disappointed. After so many years of angst I at least want to see their first real kiss! (That, you know, they both remember and isn't effectively wiped out by time turning back i.e. WoO)

Something so important to half of the main cast deserves some more attention, I'm not asking for like them being all cute and fluffy throughout every single episode they're together, as TPTB won't want to alienate the noromo's, but I definitely think we (and Sam and Jack!) deserve some sort of resolution that we get to see! :)

Ancient665
May 22nd, 2005, 12:38 AM
in this episode when Carter tells the alien ship what she wants and in return she will help the out...when the crew appears what dose it look like...an asgard beam, i think it might have been a race that stole it from them or it was the asgard them self

greytop
May 22nd, 2005, 01:16 AM
in this episode when Carter tells the alien ship what she wants and in return she will help the out...when the crew appears what dose it look like...an asgard beam, i think it might have been a race that stole it from them or it was the asgard them selfIf it was an Asgard beam, I believe that the race stole it from them. If it was the Asgard, we would have know it almost immediately.

Verona
May 22nd, 2005, 06:13 PM
[QUOTE=sg-1fanintn]Could someone answer a question for me? I usually dissect all the "ship" episodes, etc., but part of the exchange between Sam and Imaginary Jack in "Grace" has always puzzled me. It's listed below, and my question is this: If Sam feels Jack is so unobtainable, why is he a "safe bet"?

I wanna throw my thoughts on this, my idea of why Sam sees Jack as a safe bet is simply cos they love each other the zatarc detector confirmed it but they knew before this even (IMO) they just agreed to ignore it. So Jack remains unobtainable because despite this love both know they will never break the regs or give up the SGC at least until all their goals are achieved. Again IMO.
This makes the way the kiss plays out even more intense for me as Sam realises she can only ever imagine what it would be like between them even if she is not sure (at the time) of what was real.

Verona
May 22nd, 2005, 06:37 PM
Heres my thoughts on the episode as a whole I can see why a lot of people might not like it and am surprised only a couple of posts picked up on how much of a star trek feel it has,but for my part that was deliberate those writers enjoy messing with our heads for sure.
The way the storyline allowed us to see sg1 from Sam's perspective was a brillant touch, and you can see how much fun the actors had putting a new spin on their respective characters not sure if thats a good thing or not to see the actors and not the character but its always a plus for me when I pick up on details like that and has never detracted from the enjoyment I have from stargate.
It made a pleasant change to have an episode purely concerned with the people themselves not saving the word or universe or whatever more like this please.

Stricken
June 6th, 2005, 08:51 AM
An interesting yet cofusing epsidoe, what was the point?

Easter Lily
June 14th, 2005, 03:19 PM
Okay, okay, I know I've already posted some stuff on this ep, but to all the naysayers, I can only say: get over it. I like this episode and I'm putting off homework to boot.

Oh, I'm over it... :p I'll never watch it again...
*yawn*

An interesting yet cofusing epsidoe, what was the point?
Not much as far as I can see... Sam gets epiphanous moment and we see it get played out in 40 something minutes... A warm fuzzy episode for Sam fans but not much for the rest of us...

jckfan55
June 14th, 2005, 09:00 PM
Zats writes:

"Some critics have said that Sam seems weak and girly. Yes, she cries. Yes, she has a few heart-to-hearts with herself. Yes, it reveals a new vulnerablity we hadn't seen before. No, she isn't blasting goa'uld spacecraft into oblivion or waving a P-90. But none of those make her 'weak' or 'girly'. They make her real."


Well, better late than never! (It's a little longer than a week and a half....) What a relief to hear someone say this!

Yes. Heck she saved the whole crew while suffering from a massive concussion. As far as her teary moments, I've heard people often get that way with concussions. (not to mention that thinking you will probably die alone in space might make anyone a little contemplative and emotional).
Not my favorite episode ever, but a great showcase for AT.

QuiGonJohn
June 22nd, 2005, 06:30 AM
This was OK, but loses some points because, except for Sam's visions, not much of the rest of the team.

Who were the aliens?

What trip was this of the Prometheus? Was this them finally bringing it back from the Tegaren (Memento), homeworld?

ApophisOfTheStargateRealm
June 22nd, 2005, 08:47 AM
i really wasnt too pleased with this episode...i still really dont understand it too much but it seemed a bit out of place and random, sam hits her head, wakes up, and the crew is gone...she then encounters all sorts of people

MIGater
July 31st, 2005, 09:29 AM
I was just wondering if it was possible that the ship was of Ori origin. The ship sort of has that open circle look to it that same as that head Ori guy had behind his head. Maybe maybe not I don't know just a guess.

Emily
August 4th, 2005, 05:10 PM
Amanda Tapping played very well! Like the others actors actually..

I love this episode because I'm a fan of the Sam/Jack relationship and i loved the conversation they've had in the ship!!

The end of the episode was great too! I love when Sam said "Jack" ..Great!Great!Great!!

zats
August 4th, 2005, 08:53 PM
The end of the episode was great too! I love when Sam said "Jack" ..Great!Great!Great!!

Let's face it...who doesn't?

[To NOROMOS: Quiet, you]

Night Marshal
September 5th, 2005, 12:59 AM
personally I really liked Grace. It a good Character Ep. It seems that people who don't like this ep want Carter to be something other than want she has become a very lonely Character. Sure she has her work but after that what keeps her going every day? I'm personally just getting back into Stargate after being gone from it since around the middle of the fourth season. This ep is nice to me because its a odd little charcter story something you don't see to often.

Uber
September 7th, 2005, 05:37 PM
An interesting yet cofusing epsidoe, what was the point?I think Grace is one of those eps either people get or they don't. I happened originally to fall into that second category...but then I gave it some thought and would like to see if I can answer your question.

Grace was about Samantha Carter the person. We've seen Samantha Carter the scientist, the soldier, the friend, the daughter...Grace rolls all of that up and gets past all the things that usually defines her (typically the way she pulls a solution out of her...uh...head) and just leaves her.

She's typically a force of nature who blazes through the stargate on a near daily basis and lives off of the adrenaline fueled rush she gets from her work...but here, she's just herself.

And the hallucinations begin...each a different aspect of her personality...each either helping or hindering her from figuring things out.

So there she is, all by herself, marooned on a space ship with a serious head injury. She has to save herself but everything she tries, fails...leaving her time to think; about how to escape, sure, but also about her life, her goals, her objectives.

And for the first time in who knows how long, Samantha stops and really considers what she wants for herself beyond the naquadah reactors and P90's. Her "father" helps her see that she's missing out on a deep, rich committed relationship because she feared that any serious relationship would end in heartache. "Jack" helped her consider the possibility that maybe her feelings for him were based on the fact that he was out of reach.

So at the end of Grace, we saw Sam kinda say "goodbye" to Jack...she was going to move on and get that life that she had finally given herself permission to experience. The Sam at the beginning of the episode was profoundly different from the Sam at the end of the episode.

Now fortunately for me (and tons of others, I'll bet), Sam realizes that her original sense about her feelings for Jack were wrong...that her feelings for Jack were geniune...and that her attempt to have that "life" wouldn't work no matter how hard she tried hammering that square peg in and ignoring the red flags...IF it wasn't the right guy. But that's later.

So Grace was a Samantha Carter introspective...where she was FORCED to confront the areas of her life she'd been ignoring.

Brilliantly acted and great character growth episode.

:cool:

Ewa
October 25th, 2005, 05:34 PM
Amazing Grace

Amazing Grace, how sweet the sound,
That saved a wretch like me....
I once was lost but now am found,
Was blind, but now, I see.

T'was Grace that taught
my heart to fear.
And Grace, my fears relieved.
How precious did that Grace appear
the hour I first believed.

Through many dangers, toils and snares
we have already come.
T'was Grace that brought us safe thus far
and Grace will lead us home.

Yea, when this flesh and heart shall fail,
and mortal life shall cease,
I shall possess within the veil,
A life of joy and peace.

Amazing Grace, how sweet the sound,
That saved a wretch like me....
I once was lost but now am found,
Was blind, but now, I see.

-lyrics from various artists, I claim no ownership of these lyrics


:o Is it just me, or does that song just fit this episode? This was just a mindless, pointless post. A waste of space. Sorry.:(

kiya
November 1st, 2005, 08:33 AM
i am just wondering if the sence with jack wasn't there, would people react less badly with this episode.

Beatrice Otter
November 1st, 2005, 07:31 PM
i am just wondering if the sence with jack wasn't there, would people react less badly with this episode.
If I knew what you were trying to ask, kiya, I'd try to answer your question :). Please use proper spelling, grammar, and punctuation; it makes it so much easier for the rest of us!

(I know, I know, I am a pedantic grammar geek.)

kiya
November 2nd, 2005, 04:59 AM
I am sorry, English is not my first language, so i have alot of trouble with express my point with the correct grammar and spelling.

What I was trying to say is that there must be quite a lot of people dislike this episode, it was voted out early in the episode tournament. I don’t see this episode too different to other stargate episode. She got into an unknown situation where she is in danger then gets herself and other people out of it. I know from earlier post that the uncertainty of Grace does not sit well with people but there are other episodes where other characters are not define. I was thinking that if the part about Carter’s relationship (i.e. the scene with Jack and Jacob) were not in this episode, would some peoples feel less dislike to this episode.
(I have tried my best to correct the grammar, but I am sure that there will be mistake)

Madeleine
November 2nd, 2005, 08:46 PM
i am just wondering if the sence with jack wasn't there, would people react less badly with this episode.

For what it's worth your grammar is fine, and your spelling is better than plenty of British & American people I know :D

I would certainly have reacted better if the scene with Jack and the imaginary kiss hadn't been there. I'd have found Grace watchable rather than actually unpleasant. That scene made Sam look pretty daft, longing for a man who she can't even talk to properly, when we all know she could talk it all through and possibly move to a different team if she wants him - being prepared to give everything up for him if she knew he felt the same but not being prepared to give up a weeny piece of time from her life to ASK him.

The rest of the ep was much more flattering to her - as you say, she gets herself and colleagues out of danger. The rest of the ep had potential to explore more parts of Sam's psyche, and i'd have liked that.

AKnightWhoSaysNi
January 6th, 2006, 12:24 PM
My take on Grace:

This is one of the "deepest" episodes of Stargate SG1 ive ever watched, and it is in my opinion one of the best written and acted character development episodes of any show... ever. When most people think "character development" they think "they ran out of VFX budget and need a low cost filler ep", this is the case with alot of ST character episodes, but Grace is so much different.

Watching this episode I felt I was getting a better understanding for Sam's character, this episode was adding somthing that the previous seasons havent yet, sam's image of herself, her teammates, her relationships, wants and needs. I believe "Grace" was a bit more than Sam's inner child. I believe it was an entire part of her that she never lets out, a part she never even acknowledges. The emotional, playful, happy little girl that got locked away when she became "sam the soldier". When Grace was blowing the bubbles and Sam started to explain it, then Grace says "BORING!" and gets sam to try, Sam finds the way to save herself. Sam is always thinking so hard about stuff, she doesnt look at the basic. Look at Jack's moments of genius, he sees things simply, childlike, and Sam expands upon that. Grace is a part of her less serious and doesnt over analyze everything.

Aside from that, her minds image of her teammates is great. How she takes aspects of herself and visualizes sg1 as thm. Teal'c the cautious (and a bit paranoid) part of her, Daniel the abstract and wonderous part, Jacob her deep desires. It would sense to pick her father, he would be the one most able to see through Sam and recognise what she really wants (near the end of threads!) <-(did I do that right?)

The Final, and most dramatic part, would be Sam's conversation with Jack (lets remember here, this is SAMS IMAGE OF JACK, so how she sees him) This is incredibly meaningful, espically for all the shippers out there! What I got out of this was that Sam loves jack, but she doesnt know if he loves her back. Sam wants to be loved, and she knows even if Jack loved her they couldnt because of regs, and they both know it. Sam has been setting her sights on Jack, something she knows she cant get, to keep her from falling for someone else and being hurt. Jacks "I'm a safe bet" and "jacobs right you deserve more" are VERY IMPORTANT!! Sam thinks (IMO quite correctly) that Jack wants sam to be happy, he knows they cant be togeather under the current circumstances and he doesnt want her to be unhappy because of him. Jack is okay with Sam getting a boyfriend (pete) (maybe not okay, but understanding and accepting) because he wants her to be happy more than he wants her for himself, shows how much he loves her eh? alot. And by "im a safe bet" he means that even if sam gets another boyfriend, he will still always be there for her when she needs him. He wont hold a grudge or hold it against her. If things dont work out with other guys, he will still be there for her.

Grace was a set up of kinds for the whole pete deal, it just showed how Sam / Jack's relationship is so strong and how they really are meant for eachother.

So theres my take... long post :jack: :sam:

And as for the kiss, of course Sam wanted it... "but the never mind" is her realising consols dont make good imaginary kissing partners. Plus she kinda had to save herself so she could do it for real :)

Nem2k
January 31st, 2006, 05:37 PM
this was a great episode. its such a nice exploration into the character of Sam Carter, it really allows you to see her in a different way

I can see why this is a contraversial episode, but imo its great. acting was brilliant, the direction was crazily eery which is perfect for this episode. and Im glad that some people can see SG for what, imo, it really is, and thats a deep, clever scifi which does not just rely on visual effects to draw in an audience

Vicky
February 3rd, 2006, 02:55 AM
Yep, great ep for Sam/Amanda.

I noticed that every hallucination represented a part of her:

Teal'c: the warrior
Daniel: the scientist
Jacob: the little girl
Jack: the woman

Don't know if someone said something like this before 'cos I didn't take time to read every single post

Commander Ivanova
February 3rd, 2006, 03:38 AM
The Final, and most dramatic part, would be Sam's conversation with Jack (lets remember here, this is SAMS IMAGE OF JACK, so how she sees him) This is incredibly meaningful, espically for all the shippers out there! What I got out of this was that Sam loves jack, but she doesnt know if he loves her back. Sam wants to be loved, and she knows even if Jack loved her they couldnt because of regs, and they both know it. Sam has been setting her sights on Jack, something she knows she cant get, to keep her from falling for someone else and being hurt. Jacks "I'm a safe bet" and "jacobs right you deserve more" are VERY IMPORTANT!! Sam thinks (IMO quite correctly) that Jack wants sam to be happy, he knows they cant be togeather under the current circumstances and he doesnt want her to be unhappy because of him. Jack is okay with Sam getting a boyfriend (pete) (maybe not okay, but understanding and accepting) because he wants her to be happy more than he wants her for himself, shows how much he loves her eh? alot. And by "im a safe bet" he means that even if sam gets another boyfriend, he will still always be there for her when she needs him. He wont hold a grudge or hold it against her. If things dont work out with other guys, he will still be there for her.

Thank you for confirming my own views and providing a beacon of hope for all those Jack/Sam shippers out there. Keep the faith! :sam: :jack:

captain jake
May 1st, 2006, 07:12 PM
This is a great episode for there realationship, it takes it to a totaly different level.

keshya
May 4th, 2006, 01:07 PM
very good episode.

that kiss was fantastic!!!

and I hadn't really thought about it, but now you mention it, yeah they all do represent a part of her.

daniel: the scientist
teal'c: the warrior
jack: the woman

and I think grace is her inner child. carefree and happy and wanting to have fun. sam's idea of fun of working in her lab. grace is there to remind her that sometimes it's best not to think about your work, to not think at all and just let yourself relax

captain jake
May 4th, 2006, 05:02 PM
Probably true.......... Haha

Mattathias2.0
May 7th, 2006, 02:11 PM
Sam kissed herself?

Mattathias

captain jake
May 7th, 2006, 04:11 PM
HAHAHAHA never thought of it that way.

scifi_girl
May 17th, 2006, 06:49 AM
thought i'd jump in with my thoughts. i loved this episode. one reason is because i am jack/sam shipper and that kiss was great but also because im a sam fan and i think it was a great episode for her

captain jake
May 19th, 2006, 04:48 PM
Ya

WHO WERE THOSE ALIENS???

haha will it ever be answered I wonder?

harsiesis child
June 15th, 2006, 06:24 AM
Of course, like on other forums there are people who don't like it because they are bored, etc...

what a pity, it is an excellent "psychological episode", without doing it too much... sg is not only space battles and p90 shots, sometimes, different episodes are well too ;)

Nile
August 20th, 2006, 04:13 AM
I think it's a very interesting chapter, because I think that Amanda Tapping had made an excellent acting.

The story it's very good, it lets me to think what could happen, or think when a person is alone in a ship. I like the chapters like this, because it lets me to reflect situations.

Grace's character it's good, I fall catched in her mysterious apparitons.

Generally it's a very good chapter.

SamCarterFan
April 19th, 2007, 01:23 PM
This is also one of my favourite episodes... I loved it that it was all about Sam!, you could really see the talent that is Amanda! And she really looked amazingly beautiful in this episode. *screaming* I LOVE YOU SAM! :p

Callista
May 5th, 2007, 11:13 AM
Well, the first time I saw this one, I could barely sit through it. I think I was ironing or something while watching and I guess I wasn't really paying attention :P

But, I've got to admit, on second watching I really kind of like it. It's not an episode I'd watch over and over, but it was really well done (both writing and acting). It seemed a bit more like a Star Trek kind of episode than a Stargate episode, but that's OK every once in a while.

Season 7 seems to have more of these episodes based on individual characters rather than the team acting as a whole (I suppose because of RDA's reduced availability). While I wouldn't want the whole series to be like that, it is kind of nice to get these episodes that give the different actors their chance to shine. This one for AT, "Lifeboat" for MS, and "Birthright" for CJ.

Beckett2001
May 29th, 2007, 07:00 AM
I've always wondered that because of the dialogue between Sam and Jack, it actually was putting into action what they were talking about. She's scared of getting hurt. In trying to get over her feelings for Jack, is she in actual fact setting up her defence mechanism to avoid getting hurt by him? Does she really believe that the feelings she's been hiding for years are simply to avoid getting hurt by someone else? Seems unlikely- people's feelings don't work that way. You can't will yourself to develop feelings for someone else to save you from taking the leap in a proper relationship. After all, when all said and done, she is talking to herself.
The way the kiss happeed seems kind of important as well. She only thinks about it and this is after they've had the whole 'I'm a safe bet'- get over it conversation. So after thinking about what she actually feels, she's still thinking abot kissing him?
I really like hoe's Jack's in civilian clothing. It's like she feels safer having the conversation with him out of his uniform, so that there's not such a glaring 'you can't go there' banner above his head.

Clare

meredithchandler73
May 30th, 2007, 04:44 AM
I've always wondered that because of the dialogue between Sam and Jack, it actually was putting into action what they were talking about. She's scared of getting hurt. In trying to get over her feelings for Jack, is she in actual fact setting up her defence mechanism to avoid getting hurt by him? Does she really believe that the feelings she's been hiding for years are simply to avoid getting hurt by someone else? Seems unlikely- people's feelings don't work that way. You can't will yourself to develop feelings for someone else to save you from taking the leap in a proper relationship. After all, when all said and done, she is talking to herself.
The way the kiss happeed seems kind of important as well. She only thinks about it and this is after they've had the whole 'I'm a safe bet'- get over it conversation. So after thinking about what she actually feels, she's still thinking abot kissing him?
I really like hoe's Jack's in civilian clothing. It's like she feels safer having the conversation with him out of his uniform, so that there's not such a glaring 'you can't go there' banner above his head.

Clare

No, I don't think you can wil yourself to develop feelings for someone and it's obvious Sam does have feelings for Jack, but having feelings for someone doesn't mean that pursuing a relationship is a good idea. At some point over the years Sam could have said, "This relationship isn't going anywhere due to our jobs" or something. As romantic as the Jack/Sam notion is, how long does Sam go on like this? She has obviously been attracted to other men before, but then they usually died before we could ever find out how a relationship might turn out. :)

Personally, I always thought that the conversation with Jack was Sam realizing how she has let her feelings for Jack stop her from developing any kind of real romantic relationship since she knows their jobs prevent them from acting on their feelings. She was giving herself permission to move on from Jack. To go out and date, try and maybe fail, but get out there.

I love Sam so much and I think she is an awesome character. Certainly not perfect, but pretty amazing. I think her attitude about relationships is the aspect of her personality that I relate to the most. Personally, I do not bother with romantic relationships. I decided a long time ago that I'm just not cut out for them, and I know part of that comes from being afraid of being hurt. It's a powerful motivator...or unmotivator as the case may be.

Two_L's
June 18th, 2007, 07:36 AM
Definitely liked Carter's interaction with the O'Neill her mind made up and the real one. Especially when she woke up and said, "Jack?" :p Silly Sam.


Hehehe, loved that. :D


i am just wondering if the sence with jack wasn't there, would people react less badly with this episode.

I was wondering that too. I can see why non-shippers or people who strongly dislike the 'ship' might not like the episode. Fortunately, I don't fall into those categories so I loved it. ;)


I really like hoe's Jack's in civilian clothing. It's like she feels safer having the conversation with him out of his uniform, so that there's not such a glaring 'you can't go there' banner above his head.

Ah, of course. I didn't understand why Jack was in normal clothing until I read your post, but that makes sense. :)

The little girl, I thought, was meant to be a reminder of her childhood and telling her she should have fun and not always be so focused on work. Especially when the girl is blowing the bubbles and Carter goes to explain how it all works, but the girl doesn't wanna hear and thinks its boring. So possibly meant to be a reference to her childhood.

Either way, I thought it was a good episode, but it had a strange sort of atmosphere about it.

A Mal Doran
June 22nd, 2007, 08:50 PM
I watched "Grace" for the first time today, and after reading all of the posts in this topic, I was surprised to see folks discussing :sam: Samantha's role, but not much about :jack: Jack's reaction at Stargate Command.

I was really struck by how upset Jack was over Sam's disappearance, and his continuing frustration in not finding her. Then, for it to be him at her bedside, after being in a coma for four days...

Forget what Sam thinks about Jack. It was evident to :tealc: Teal'c and :daniel: Daniel and :hammond: Hammond that Jack was ripped up because she was "lost", and then to next to her when she woke up.

Wow.

Cascade
August 24th, 2007, 06:11 PM
I have three things to say about in regards to this episode - 1) Amanda Tapping rocks! 2) Sam Carter rocks! 3) This episode rocked! Yes, I loved this episode. :D

talula
December 4th, 2007, 03:27 PM
Everyone being excited by that kiss is confusing a little to me. That kiss broke my heart. I'm just going through the Stargate series now (better late then never, huh?) and I had seen pictures of that kiss, because, um, I live in the world. So I had high hopes for it and as soon as I saw that Jack was sitting down, I thought it might be the kiss. I was kinda dissapointed because it meant that it was all in Sam's head (the last one was only rememberd by Jack, so I guess it's fair).

But how it actually played out was heartbreaking. She realizes she can never have him, so pining for him was a protection from the possibility of getting hurt, maybe even an excuse (which I don't think I can entirely agree with).

But she wants, even though it's not real, to know what it's like to kiss him. But just a second and she changes her mind. How many times had she probably imagined it? She's let the relationship 'go' (ie-not having it) in real life for seven years and now she has to let it go in her mind. That's the hardest part, letting go of the possibility.

I think it was more powerful to viewers (well, maybe just us shippers) because the possibility is what it's all about. Sam lets go of the possibility, has the power to stop writing her own fanfic about the situation and let it go. Heartbreaking. Really, really good.

captain jake
December 7th, 2007, 07:10 PM
I have three things to say about in regards to this episode - 1) Amanda Tapping rocks! 2) Sam Carter rocks! 3) This episode rocked! Yes, I loved this episode. :D

So did you like this episode?

jasminaGo
February 14th, 2008, 09:00 AM
I think this is one of the best soul searching episodes in the show. It was important to see why Sam is the way she is, what drives her in life, and WHO is BEHIND the military side of her.

All the other characters got a chance in the early episodes (Jack in "Cold Lazarus", Daniel in "Forever in a day" and "Meridian", Teal'c in "Threshold") and I think this was long overdue.

Lots of things are left unexplained and that gives an edge to the episode because it allows free interpretation, and after all reality is that you can't always get answers to your questions.

As for the rumors that she was "girly" and "weak" seriously, she has a massive concussion hasn't slept in days and to top it all of her mind is playing games with her, OFF COURSE she's crying

garhkal
February 14th, 2008, 03:22 PM
You almost forgot Teal'c again when he was trying to avoid sleeping in Morpheus, when he had the lizard..

xSFx
March 1st, 2008, 12:10 PM
http://img338.imageshack.us/img338/7294/248uy4.jpg

So is that a Furling ship or what?

March 8th, 2008, 10:32 PM
I just watched this ep for the first time in years and...

If I'm not mistaken, this episode is the one and only where Teal'c calls her "Samantha". (I know it wasn't actually him but it was weird all the same)

:tealc::sam:

GREAT ep, btw. I HATED it the first time I saw it but my opinion has done a 180

MmmmMcKAy
July 16th, 2008, 05:34 PM
I enjoyed this episode a lot, even though I'm not a huge Sam fan.

I don't know why they pushed the so-called Sam/Jack attraction, though. I don't really see it myself.

I liked Sam's talk with her "father".

L E E
July 28th, 2008, 04:35 AM
That scene with Jacob talking about happiness. I hate that. All I got from that scene is that if you're single, you're unhappy. I really resent this sentiment.

The alien ship looked cool. Too bad they didn't show what the aliens looked like. But apparently they can understand English too.

Kraft
August 13th, 2008, 02:25 AM
I really doubt that it is a Furling ship as some people speculate. The Nox, Ancients and Asgard were not hostile races so why would the Furlings be

Devilish Me
August 13th, 2008, 04:51 PM
That scene with Jacob talking about happiness. I hate that. All I got from that scene is that if you're single, you're unhappy. I really resent this sentiment.

The alien ship looked cool. Too bad they didn't show what the aliens looked like. But apparently they can understand English too.

I don't think the point is that she's unhappy because she's single, but because she doesn't allow herself to be loved or to love. That's what she's been trying to tell herself. :)

:lol: about understanding English! :lol:

It's basically a sad episode. I think for the first time we see what's going on in her mind, and maybe how she sees herself. She chose certain people to represent parts of her, and what really saddens me is that she chose Jack to tell her to move on.

And the kiss WAS heartbreaking. But, hey... THEY KISSED! *sigh* *they kissed* *never mind me*

And the reaction from Jack at the SGC was just beautiful, but I wish he hadn't questioned her when she called him Jack... I'm always hoping that at the end he won't say: "Jack?" but something like "Hey."

L E E
August 21st, 2008, 11:42 PM
I don't think the point is that she's unhappy because she's single, but because she doesn't allow herself to be loved or to love. That's what she's been trying to tell herself. :)



Well, this POV I think is better. :)

Ashish67
October 14th, 2008, 01:28 PM
Hi i watched sg1 episode "grace" there was a song in it from 23:26 to 23:32 can you guys tell me which song is it plz it was only for 6 seconds.

leiasky
October 30th, 2008, 09:32 AM
The whole episode was so sad. Sam is so used to being scientist and soldier that she's let (whether by choice or by fear) the personal side of her fall to the wayside. The people her mind conjured when she had her concussion represented the softer side of Sam, or what she wants herself to be but hasn't been able to because of scientist/soldier Sam. She wants Jack to call her 'Sam'. She does want what her father is talking about but doesn't know how to go about getting it since the man she really wants is unattainable. I love the episode but its so sad.

Anda
October 30th, 2008, 11:04 AM
It's great to think that the best person in Sam's mind is a yhoung girl (GRACE).

leiasky
October 30th, 2008, 11:07 AM
I think Grace was her concussed mind's representation of the simplicity Sam longs for in her life because she's been so focused on Soldier and Scientist Sam. What does everyone else think?

RononXSpecialist
November 6th, 2008, 02:44 AM
Light spoilers.....


For me 'Grace' really didn't have any point. They never explained who those aliens were. Furlings? Romulans? And why they didn't get Carter as well.
We got to see some stuff from her point of view, but that was about it.

I really dout that they would be the furlings because they were part of the 4 races they wouldn't attack randomly without any communication, thats not their way.

leiasky
November 6th, 2008, 08:24 AM
I'd like to see the Furlings but not as some wannabe Ewok clones. There's been a lot of speculation about what that ship was and I'd love to know. Maybe in one of the next SG-1 movies . . .

Hornet
February 22nd, 2009, 09:24 AM
Personally, my view about Grace is that she's the child Carter never was, a normal kid, a kid that maybe she sometimes, subconsciously wish she was. Grace is like a product of Sam's imagination of a childhood she never had.

This cross my mind at that part when sam explain about the surface tension and Grace said it was boring and instead insist on just blowing the bubbles.

And later on, Grace asked her to explain what she's doing with the ship, to me, its like, its implying that Grace could be both a smart person and also have a childhood at the same time

leiasky
February 22nd, 2009, 10:07 PM
A childhood or - a normal, fulfilling life outside of work, which is what her conversation with Jack was all about . . .

gateship15
February 22nd, 2009, 11:01 PM
this is not one of the best episodes i have seen in this series i kind of liked the concept but i just found this episode a bit boring. maybe i need to see it again to appreciate it fully

EvenstarSRV
February 22nd, 2009, 11:16 PM
Personally, my view about Grace is that she's the child Carter never was, a normal kid, a kid that maybe she sometimes, subconsciously wish she was. Grace is like a product of Sam's imagination of a childhood she never had.

This cross my mind at that part when sam explain about the surface tension and Grace said it was boring and instead insist on just blowing the bubbles.

And later on, Grace asked her to explain what she's doing with the ship, to me, its like, its implying that Grace could be both a smart person and also have a childhood at the same time

Well said. That's how I see Grace too, the part of Carter that wanted to blow bubbles just because it's fun and not over-thinking it. I see her as representing the care-free childhood she may have had before her mother's death, or maybe before she became so focused and serious about becoming an astronaut.

And I really liked that beat when Grace asked Sam to explain what she was doing, and then Sam's double-take when she says 'neat'. To me it was like Sam was focused on the fact her idea could save herself, then Grace chimes in to remind her that the idea itself is pretty cool too. :)

leiasky
February 23rd, 2009, 08:13 AM
this is not one of the best episodes i have seen in this series i kind of liked the concept but i just found this episode a bit boring. maybe i need to see it again to appreciate it fully

It's more of a character reflection piece for Sam, than an overall team action episode so I can see how some people wouldn't have liked it.

We learned a little bit more about what she really does long for in life ( a normal, stable life outside of work) and why she doesn't have it. The repercussions from this episode last until 'Threads' at the end of season 8.

gateship15
February 24th, 2009, 01:07 AM
i agree i found out alot about sam and her life before we knew her and that she does have something other then work witch is a great thing to know and aloud me to connect with her as a person but it was still kind of boring

katjoy
May 24th, 2009, 12:58 AM
i thought grace was an excellent ep and AT deserved the leo award for best lead performance by a female in a dramatic series...

i really enjoyed the way her mind brought everyone in... it was fun how daniel and tealc were giving her a hard time... it was a touching moment when jacob told sam she deserved to be happy... and as a shipper who wouldnt love the conversation she had with jack and that kiss, eeekkkk...

and short of going back through every single post in this thread to date, is there anyone else out there who thinks grace represents what sam and jacks daughter would look like???

leiasky
May 24th, 2009, 08:22 AM
I don't think Grace represents their daughter, I think she represents Sam as a child without a care or concern in the world - so very unlike the Sam we know.

vzzzzzbx
June 14th, 2009, 05:49 PM
I still can't quite decide if I like this episode or not. Strange how the SGC asked the Tok'ra to conduct a search but no mention of contacting the Asgard? What happened to the rest of the crew? Were they interrogated, tortured, invited to a 4-day alien orgy, what? And whoever the hell those aliens were, how did they get so advanced without being wiped out by the Goa'uld (unless they were Space Pirates from another dimension or something, preying on primitive vessels, er, for fun):D how else to explain their identity.

nmmb
July 5th, 2009, 02:14 PM
I still can't quite decide if I like this episode or not. Strange how the SGC asked the Tok'ra to conduct a search but no mention of contacting the Asgard? What happened to the rest of the crew? Were they interrogated, tortured, invited to a 4-day alien orgy, what? And whoever the hell those aliens were, how did they get so advanced without being wiped out by the Goa'uld (unless they were Space Pirates from another dimension or something, preying on primitive vessels, er, for fun):D how else to explain their identity.

I guess not knowing who they are is part of the charm of the episode, often unknown things are scarier than the scary things you do know...:confused:

That was profound....

Anyway,Just saw the episode nice stuff it was a star trek like episode kind of liked it...

sgjoli
September 4th, 2009, 02:48 AM
well, for me Grace belongs to my most favourite episodes of SG1 and I believe, there are a lot of people who love this episode as well. In my country there were a lot of problems with the script translations of Grace (there were a lot of mistakes and a lot of parts of the czech version didn´t make any sense - that´s why I don´t want to watch SG in my native language but in original :-D),

I think that the incorrect translations are the reason why Grace isn´t so popular in the CZR - especially among people who have seen Grace only with czech dubbing. That´s really pity ´cause I think Grace can be counted to the better part of StarGate episodes :love:

leiasky
September 4th, 2009, 08:30 AM
It's very much a character exploration and those who don't like that sort of thing (and prefer big guns and explosions) don't like this episode. But those of us who enjoyed seeing Sam's character relationships being explored really do love this episode. I believe its a catalyst for her decisions later on in the show (ie deciding to date Pete and let Jack go).

LEKY
September 8th, 2009, 08:42 AM
Hi Joli, and indeed all
Joli I have to agree, because in our country to translate awful.
And this is just one of the favorite parts of the spinal cord, so I'm sorry even more.

sgjoli
September 8th, 2009, 01:51 PM
Hi Joli, and indeed all
Joli I have to agree, because in our country to translate awful.
And this is just one of the favorite parts of the spinal cord, so I'm sorry even more.

Oh hi my dear friend :-) (it´s little weird to speak English with you after the long time of being a friend of yours and speaking Czech with you :-D but never mind :-D)

I agree, there are lot of episodes which are terribly translated to Czech... that´s pretty bad and I don´t think it´s going to be better in the future :-( I regret the new generation of czech fans who watch SG the first time nowadays... I hope there will be a lot of them who (will) do the same we (the 1st wave of SG fans who watch SG since its beginning :-D) do - watch it in original as possible and mainly - they urge the TV NOVA channel to improve the broadcast of this show...

LEKY
September 9th, 2009, 03:08 AM
Oh hi my dear friend :-) (it´s little weird to speak English with you after the long time of being a friend of yours and speaking Czech with you :-D but never mind :-D)

I agree, there are lot of episodes which are terribly translated to Czech... that´s pretty bad and I don´t think it´s going to be better in the future :-( I regret the new generation of czech fans who watch SG the first time nowadays... I hope there will be a lot of them who (will) do the same we (the 1st wave of SG fans who watch SG since its beginning :-D) do - watch it in original as possible and mainly - they urge the TV NOVA channel to improve the broadcast of this show...


(it's damn funny to talk with English)

Yes our "beloved" TV Nova's all pretty spoiled. When I'm so sorry for such a wonderful part.
She new generation to come, what is good and what is not.

I love Jack and Sam:love:

techwork
September 26th, 2009, 10:39 AM
This is our spaceship ;) and Grace is Solaris

techwork
September 26th, 2009, 10:48 AM
well, for me Grace belongs to my most favourite episodes of SG1 and I believe, there are a lot of people who love this episode as well. In my country there were a lot of problems with the script translations of Grace (there were a lot of mistakes and a lot of parts of the czech version didn´t make any sense - that´s why I don´t want to watch SG in my native language but in original :-D),

I think that the incorrect translations are the reason why Grace isn´t so popular in the CZR - especially among people who have seen Grace only with czech dubbing. That´s really pity ´cause I think Grace can be counted to the better part of StarGate episodes :love:

Russian easier. We have an official translation made by people with some humor and complete lack of understanding about what he would do the show and they look fun. And a fan-made translation is made very accurately. Well, I can watch and English.

Dusk
October 8th, 2009, 06:22 AM
Just watched this episode again and after all these years it's still one of my favourites. A fantastic character introspection for Sam, and some intricate layers in terms of thematic approach. SG-1 doesn't always have to be about war, about the military and seriously over the top bad guys.. 'Grace' shows a more gentle side to the series, a side which I believe true fans will love and appreciate.

Tachyon
December 1st, 2009, 06:26 AM
A good episode. Gotta like it also because it is Sam-centric. Tee hee.

rushy
December 4th, 2009, 05:19 AM
I think this episode is not so bad. I TOTALLY LOVE THIS EPISODE

rushy
December 4th, 2009, 05:20 AM
I think this episode is not so bad.I TOTALLY LOVE THIS EPISODE

gateship15
December 6th, 2009, 12:04 AM
i like this episode.

es!
January 11th, 2010, 07:44 AM
I loved the contrast between Jack in Sam's dream and the real one in the infirmary. The kiss was hot too :) Apart from that, it was a rather weak ep plot-wise. I wish they would elaborate on the nebulae and the aliens but alas.

Tachyon
January 11th, 2010, 08:03 AM
Yeah - the nebula was really "Star Trek" for me. Grace in an alright episode for me. Since Sam is my favorite character of the show, watching this episode ain't painful for me. Tee hee.

KayLyne
February 22nd, 2010, 11:19 AM
Every time I watch this episode, I'm continually totally confused by the Grace character. Yes, I understand that it's basically the representation of the nebula, but why does Sam imagine it as a young girl?

And my biggest beef with this one (even though I love the episode), is why are Teal'c, Daniel, Jack & Jacob the only ones that Sam hallucinates? Why is there no Janet mentioned? or Cassandra? They are very important in Sam's life as well. Why just the three plus her dad? I would think that Janet would be the one whom Sam would conjur up to remind herself to stay awake and not sleep because of her concussion - instead of Teal'c. This subject is also brought up in one of the books I've read - I believe it was Jo Storm's "approaching the possible" (great book, BTW)

The best part of this episode is the visual of Sam blowing bubbles with Grace.

kusanagi
February 24th, 2010, 01:44 AM
i like this episode.

:lol:

Petra
February 24th, 2010, 01:57 AM
Every time I watch this episode, I'm continually totally confused by the Grace character. Yes, I understand that it's basically the representation of the nebula, but why does Sam imagine it as a young girl?

And my biggest beef with this one (even though I love the episode), is why are Teal'c, Daniel, Jack & Jacob the only ones that Sam hallucinates? Why is there no Janet mentioned? or Cassandra? They are very important in Sam's life as well. Why just the three plus her dad? I would think that Janet would be the one whom Sam would conjur up to remind herself to stay awake and not sleep because of her concussion - instead of Teal'c. This subject is also brought up in one of the books I've read - I believe it was Jo Storm's "approaching the possible" (great book, BTW)

The best part of this episode is the visual of Sam blowing bubbles with Grace.

You know that there are dozens of possible interpretations of Sam hallucinations, don't you? I've seen whole essays written on the subject ;)

Personally, I see all hallucinations as representations of various parts of Sam. Daniel is scientist!Sam, Teal'c is warrior!Sam, Jacob - daughter!Sam, Jack - woman!Sam and Grace represents Sam's inner child. I agree that it would be nice to see Janet and Cassie and explore their friendship, but then the ep would have to be a 2-parter.

As for Joe Storm's book - it's enjoyable, but I wouldn't take it too seriously. It's very subjective; basically she just published what we are talking about on the forum and her opinion doesn't carry more weight than our opinions. :)

Tachyon
February 24th, 2010, 03:51 AM
Personally, I see all hallucinations as representations of various parts of Sam. Daniel is scientist!Sam, Teal'c is warrior!Sam, Jacob - daughter!Sam, Jack - woman!Sam and Grace represents Sam's inner child.

That pretty much sums my interpretation up as well. I see Grace also as the inner child of her; the core of herself so to speak.

Jeff O'Connor
February 25th, 2010, 03:21 PM
Just rewatched the episode last night. (Indeed, my banner is a few seasons outdated...)

I agree that they were all representations of various aspects of Sam. Heck, I thought it was kind of obvious. Then again, I probably read that here on GateWorld sometime in the past few years and don't remember it.

Good episode. It harbors one of the few moments in the entire series in which I genuinely feel something for the SamJack gig. I'm not much for ships; I'm not even much for romance. But things were portrayed admirably here.

KayLyne
March 8th, 2010, 04:03 PM
Just finished re-watching this one on SyFy. I wish they would have re-visited the story of the alien craft that was stuck in the nebula with the Prometheus. It would have been nice to see who exactly was on that ship.

mrscopterdoc
March 27th, 2010, 04:49 PM
I love this episode for Sam.

maneth
October 28th, 2010, 10:41 AM
This was a great Sam ep. A bit too Trek for me in places, even though I love Trek. But Prometheus is a gorgeous ship.

chaapa-ai
November 3rd, 2010, 04:56 PM
I agree on both accounts - a good Sam ep (the pieces of Sam disassembled), and bit too Trek like with the Nebula and mysterious alien ship.

GateGhost
December 3rd, 2010, 01:08 PM
This is one of the best episodes for me. The first time I watch this episode I thought that the Prometheus was a beautiful ship. And every time I watch this episode I still think that the Prometheus is a beautiful ship.

muziqaz
July 17th, 2011, 02:54 PM
1st of I would like to apologise if this was already discussed somewhere.
I was re-watching various episodes from SG-1, and I got a bit confused about this episode, that is continuity.
When this episode starts, we get 'Previously on SG-1 thing' showing how Prometheus broke down and how they have to land to certain planet to repair it. As far as I remember and stargate wiki agrees with me that this happened on the 6th season(one year ago):

<...>The Prometheus had to land on the planet Tagrea. After some conflicts with the Tagreans they were allowed to stay and await parts and repair equipment brought through the Stargate in order to get back home. (SG1: "Memento (http://stargate.wikia.com/wiki/Memento)")
She did not make it home, however, until the following year, using a hyperdrive taken from a captured Al'kesh bomber. <...> (SG1: "Grace") .
While 12th episode of season 7 shows Sam being on earth and kicking some Anubis super warriors ass.
So why such a jump in continuity? Or am I missing something here?

caribsci
October 29th, 2011, 12:10 PM
Ithink the ''grace'' aliens were somewhat like the Dedaleus variations aliens........and they either crossed into our reality or we jumped into theirs.

DustyBadger
February 5th, 2012, 12:30 AM
So why such a jump in continuity? Or am I missing something here?

That confused me as well. Was it supposed to be a direct continuity from that episode or is it that Prometheus is now flying around with a much smaller engine all the time as the core hasn't been rebuilt yet?

And yes, quite trekish episode. Still ok though, it's Sam after all. I keep wondering though what happened to the crew. Were they just magicaly beamed onboard the other ship into cells, were the aliens mean to them, did they board the Prometheus and so on. Many questions ...

Lieutenant Sparrow
February 14th, 2012, 08:05 PM
Not an ep I enjoy. The opening scene was good. But from then on I had trouble maintaining my attention.

Matt G
February 17th, 2012, 03:53 AM
Tuesday night another ep of SG1...

1. First question, who the hell was Grace? Still not 100% sure.

2. Teal'c's first appearance was really wierd, made me wonder if he was even meant to be a benign hallucination.

4. The way it went shippy was...less than ideal.

Very wierd ep.

mathpiglet
February 17th, 2012, 01:17 PM
Not one of my favourites since it's largely introspection and very little action.

But I suppose the shippers are happy!

NowIWillDestroyAbydos
February 17th, 2012, 04:31 PM
Thought it was kind of a boring episode. But the ending was cool.

Monday, Jonas Quinn is back (for the last time :()

Oma De Salad
February 17th, 2012, 06:38 PM
1. First question, who the hell was Grace? Still not 100% sure.

Glad you raised that question... there may be something buried earlier in the thread... but I'm pretty sure that the clues indicate Grace is the nebula - or rather, the incarnation of the nebula. Thinking this as the dialogue indicates its a new kind of nebula never studied - and since in Star Trek they were always running into space based creatures with a consciousness, this concept was borrowed here.

One flaw in my theory is that if Grace is the nebula, then it would be odd the nebula would have sufficient understanding of hyperspace drives to have the idea to create the bubble/shift in space time. Perhaps its a clever, problem-solving type of nebula.

Could have done without the ship. Was well-done though.

discodiva
February 18th, 2012, 12:07 AM
One of the most boring and dreary episodes of S.7 for me....not quite in my "watched only once and will never watch again" group, but definitely a "background noise only" one from now on for me...:P

Deeds xx

Jae'a
February 20th, 2012, 11:19 AM
My LiveJournal post (http://jo-r-lee.livejournal.com/38787.html)

I hate that we never find out who was in that great big ship. It looks so cool I want to see some funky aliens to go with it. :P

Krisz
February 20th, 2012, 08:20 PM
I like this episode, another of the surreal creations of characters' minds when being affected by alien forces that I've enjoyed through Stargate's history, 'The Changeling', SGA's 'Remnants','The Real World, 'Phantoms', and SGU's 'Cloverdale'

It was all about Sam and it was good to see into her mind and learn of her hopes and fears. Unfortunately the "you deserve to love someone, and be loved in return" gave us Pete Shanahan! :P

Seaboe Muffinchucker
February 21st, 2012, 09:11 AM
I'm pretty sure that the clues indicate Grace is the nebula - or rather, the incarnation of the nebula.

Interesting theory. I'm not sure I agree, though, as the actions of the nebula on the ship (corrosion) don't in my mind mesh with the little girl trying to help Sam figure out a way out. I believe the writers deliberately did not identify Grace herself in order to create just this kind of debate.

Seaboe

jelgate
February 24th, 2012, 04:21 PM
This episode is just plain boring. Thier is no conflict and no action and barely a story. All it is is vechile to descibe Carter's different mindsets and emotions. It just gets dull real fast watching her walking around Prometheus interacting with her different aspects of her psychie as she suffers the dilema. I would be more interested in seeing what makes the nebula so unique or where the mysterious alien vessel came from.

Oma De Salad
February 25th, 2012, 11:41 AM
Interesting theory. I'm not sure I agree, though, as the actions of the nebula on the ship (corrosion) don't in my mind mesh with the little girl trying to help Sam figure out a way out. I believe the writers deliberately did not identify Grace herself in order to create just this kind of debate.

Seaboe

That makes sense. I don't think the focus of this ep was for the space geeks [like me] anyways - more of a device to setup the SC story than to have more fun and excitement with aliens and spaceships. Like in ST DS9 when Sisko met the wormhole aliens and had a life changing epiphany and we get to see some key backstory to understand the character.

Starry Starry Night
August 19th, 2012, 05:38 AM
I liked this episode even though it left many questions nanswered... It's nice to be able to speculate and to decide for oneself who was Grace. I took her to represent Sam's childhood that she had lost..

About the aliens and the alien ship... I actually don't care who they were.. As far as I'm concerned, they were there to take away the rest of the crew so we could have an episode that focuses on Sam...

It was interesting to see the other characters a bit out of character.. I liked the shippy moment between Sam and Jack, but I didn' like te outcome of it.. Of course from the series point of view Sam couldn't quit the air force and I don't think she is te kind of person who would do that.. But obviously it's something she would consider, because here she asks that from HERSELF.. I actually think that contradicts the "I'm a safe bet" argument. He would be a safe bet, if her feelings were "lighter", if it was a question some flirting sometimes and her just finding her superior officer attractive and thinking it's good enough wouldn't have time for deeper relationships right now... But her thinking about choosing between her career in the airforce and him... It shows a deep dilemma that I don't think will protect her from hurt...

Brother Freyr
August 20th, 2012, 04:25 PM
Well, like you said, neither could quit the air force, because it would hurt the television series. In RL, Jack could easily retire (again) to be with Sam. He could even retire and be re-hired (if he wished) in some capacity as a civilian contractor. Joint (civilian) CIA & military teams conduct operations, so there's no reason the SGC couldn't do the same. As a television production, there's just no way.

Dr-Helen-Granger
December 2nd, 2012, 04:14 AM
I'm just going to put my two cents in here, I've only just seen this episode so please forgive me if I get somethings wrong.

I actually love this episode. Not trying to sound snarky or be offensive but I don't understand how anyone could find this episode boring! Maybe I'm just bias because of my love for anything Sam or Sam/Jack related but I found this episode to be one of the best this season!
Okay, so it didn't have any big action things, nothing blowing up and yeah, it did have a bunch of scenes of Sam walking around the Prometheus but I think its nice to have a change every now and then. You know what they say, a change is as good as a holiday! :)

First of all, I saw this episode as a way to see what really goes on in Sam's head. Like Jack said, she's the complex one. Teal'c was like the warrior in her, Daniel the theoretical scientist, her father and Jack were herself (probably Jack more) forcing herself to believe that she only uses her love for him as an excuse not to get hurt. She does love him but she's scared for what happened to her parents to happen to them. She could give up her career but she doesn't know if that will work. It was basically listening to a conversation in her head (I do it all the time)

As for Grace, I think she could be the child she could've been if her Mother didn't die and she hadn't blamed her Father. Hence Grace singing 'Twinkle, Twinkle' and Sam saying her Mum sung it to her and also the bit with the bubbles.

To me, this episode is really deep and I'll probably have to watch it a few times to really understand it but I really, really, REALLY enjoyed it :)

Baron Of Hell
July 14th, 2013, 08:31 PM
Really liked this episode. I didn't think it matter who the aliens were or what the nebula was. My guess is the visions were the nebula though. In fact I think the nebula was many aliens not just one and each alien took a different form to try to help Sam.

Can't think of anything I didn't like about it.

Falcon Horus
November 7th, 2013, 04:00 PM
Carter bangs her head against the wall, and as a result lots of figments of her own making start to appear, except for the girl who keeps singing Twinkle, twinkle, little star ... now I'm stuck with it, and I don't even know the text passed the first line. :S

So, she's stuck in a nebula... If I'm not mistaken, this has been done before in Star Trek, loads of times, in Farscape so I guess Stargate couldn't stay behind. Nebula's really are tricky places to be in.
But oh look, the attackers managed to get themselves stuck along with the Prometheus. Nice flying there, dudes!

It's a very uneventful episode really... there's Carter, concussed and slowly going cuckoo.

And they had to repeat that whole business in Atlantis three or so years later... Why? :S

Fun to see Grodin as the weapons officer. Was he Grodin back then too? He isn't credited under a name, just as a weapons officer. Nevertheless, cool to catch his cameo.

majorsal
November 7th, 2013, 04:13 PM
Carter bangs her head against the wall, and as a result lots of figments of her own making start to appear, except for the girl who keeps singing Twinkle, twinkle, little star ... now I'm stuck with it, and I don't even know the text passed the first line. :S



i'd still like to know who 'grace' really was. was she a part of sam's mind and spirit, or some*thing* from the nebula itself?

Falcon Horus
November 7th, 2013, 04:25 PM
i'd still like to know who 'grace' really was. was she a part of sam's mind and spirit, or some*thing* from the nebula itself?

I kinda liked Figment!Daniel's theory about the nebula being a sentient being (which they did in ST: Voyager I think as well). I don't think it was an evil sort of nebula, otherwise I don't think it would have chosen a little girl as a means to communicate.

majorsal
November 7th, 2013, 04:29 PM
I kinda liked Figment!Daniel's theory about the nebula being a sentient being (which they did in ST: Voyager I think as well). I don't think it was an evil sort of nebula, otherwise I don't think it would have chosen a little girl as a means to communicate.

i like this idea the best too. i really wish they would have done a follow up with this, using this idea!

Falcon Horus
November 7th, 2013, 05:15 PM
That would have been nice. :)

Sparky She-Demon
January 23rd, 2014, 02:35 PM
This was an interesting episode to watch. Really fun to watch.

I'm of two opinions on Grace: A) She's what Sam may have been like before the car accident, obviously Sam was older than the girl seems to be and/or B) Grace is a possible child that she could have one day.

Alyana
February 20th, 2014, 03:21 PM
I think I didn't particularly like or dislike this episode but obviously, it did raise a few questions.

My thoughts on Grace (and sorry if someone said it already, I didn't read the entire thread) is that she's the Nebula. Obviously, she does say/act like she knows things about Sam but I think she can, in some ways, "read minds". What I mean by that is that if Grace is the nebula, her appearance can only come from Sam's mind, or the Nebula wouldn't appear as a Human child, speak English, sing Twinkle Twinkle Little Star and blow bubbles. The nebula affects the ships, maybe it didn't do it on purpose (it didn't ask for ships to come right inside of it) and just wonders if Sam's worth of being freed, or just tries to help her because it doesn't want to keep ships in his body.

I think wasn't beemed because she wasn't conscious. I've always thought that, I mean, she looses consciousness, she wakes up, no one is here. Maybe the Alien's technology didn't "see" her because she was out.

But really, the REAL question here is : Who were the people in that ship ? I mean, there was a huge hostile space ship out there, and they just left the whole thing pending. That is my biggest issue with the episode. I just want to know.

Falcon Horus
February 20th, 2014, 03:36 PM
Yeah, we had a discussion earlier in the thread about whether the nebula was sentient or not, and whether Grace is the nebula in that case. My opinion did lean towards that notion.

Stargate is known for leaving things hanging, that's where fanfiction comes in I guess. (or to revive dead characters)

Sparky She-Demon
February 20th, 2014, 03:46 PM
I like working around things with dead characters!

Alyana
February 20th, 2014, 04:25 PM
Stargate is known for leaving things hanging, that's where fanfiction comes in I guess. (or to revive dead characters)

It's not that I dislike fanfictions but I like when things are canon ^^'

Anyway, it's not even like they really seemed to discuss the whole nebula situation afterwards in the show either.
Maybe Sam wrote her report and everyone just though "it's the blow to head, makes you see things".

Falcon Horus
February 20th, 2014, 04:54 PM
When TPTW kill your favorite character, you don't have much choice, now do you. :S

jelgate
February 20th, 2014, 04:59 PM
When TPTW kill your favorite character, you don't have much choice, now do you. :S

That probably suggest you are too obsessed if killing a fictional person brings so much anger

Sparky She-Demon
February 20th, 2014, 05:00 PM
When TPTW kill your favorite character, you don't have much choice, now do you. :S

That's what fanfiction is for!

Falcon Horus
February 20th, 2014, 05:08 PM
That probably suggest you are too obsessed if killing a fictional person brings so much anger

Not anymore... I'm making progress. :p

enibas5
July 26th, 2015, 05:31 PM
Have not read all previous posts, which I usually do.
That is probably also just a result of being soooo bored by "Grace", that I am also bored reading too much about it.

Out of 214 eps. there might be around 6-8 that I do not rewatch anymore, for I do not want to waste my precious time. However, as with other eps. I dislike, I at least did rewatch them twice, before abandoning for good.
It did not help with "Grace". Rewatching led to a minor better understanding of the plot, but not a bit to better entertainment. It is just completely boring.
Since I feel that way a lot, when it comes to eps. that focus on Sam (can't stand 'Death Knell' either), I even checked myself, if it might just be a result of, as me being female, generally wanting to have the focus on the male characters. But, nope! That's not the reason. Sam just is not so complex as indicated in eps. like "Grace". There are over 100 eps. before, showing her very one-dimensional military character.
We've known her for 7 years now, and all of a sudden TPTB want to make believe that she is so much more than this? No, I don't buy it. If she were, it would have shown before.

But apart from that and even if I would buy that plot, the whole ep. simply bores me. So, no rewatch anymore.

Falcon Horus
July 29th, 2015, 02:00 PM
...if it might just be a result of, as me being female, generally wanting to have the focus on the male characters.

Characters need to be well-rounded, well-written and strong. Doesn't matter whether they are male, female or somewhere in between.

I always felt something was missing with Carter, but like I mentioned in another thread I could never figure out what it was that made me unable to like her more than I did. It's nothing Amanda did, that's for sure, cause I absolutely loved her in Sanctuary character.

*shrug*

I don't know... it just bugs me sometimes. :p

garhkal
July 29th, 2015, 04:40 PM
I don't know... it just bugs me sometimes. :p

Same here. I just hate it when ANY character who supposedly is a main line character, gets wrote poorly, or has stuff left out that makes them less than 3 dimensional.

jelgate
July 29th, 2015, 05:25 PM
Characters need to be well-rounded, well-written and strong. Doesn't matter whether they are male, female or somewhere in between.

I always felt something was missing with Carter, but like I mentioned in another thread I could never figure out what it was that made me unable to like her more than I did. It's nothing Amanda did, that's for sure, cause I absolutely loved her in Sanctuary character.

*shrug*

I don't know... it just bugs me sometimes. :p
I'm the opposite. I can't stand Magnus. Especially in S4

Janet Fraiser
July 29th, 2015, 05:45 PM
I get this nagging feeling that Carter would be a more believeable character if only we were able to see her interact more with the world outside of work. I would have loved to see her more with someone like Cassie, at least, to get a better sense early on of who Sam is instead of Major Carter. Just to understand how she interacts with people in general, people who don't include her colleagues, her commanding officer who influences how she behaves with said people, and random men hitting on her.

Of course, I feel like that's true enough for all the characters and isn't really the point of the show, but at the same time, for a story that has run as long the franchise's three series with the reappearing characters to boot, it still makes enough sense that she could have been developed as a more rounded character earlier in the show.

Anyway, that being said, I just realized I hadn't commented on this episode. I loved it. I think it was nice to finally explore Sam's mind a bit. I thought I knew what was going on in the beginning, but it definitely had me guessing after a while. For all of the faults I think there are in the creation of Carter, the idea of Carter, I still love her, and I'd rather finish my post on a positive note.

I'm also glad that the brief "kiss" in here rekindled my old liking of the S/J pairing, toward which I've had a mainly lukewarm reaction in my re-watch. I think it was because by this point in the episode, Sam seemed so exhausted - just so done with everything - that it finally felt right because it was something from which she drew comfort.

Of course, as we know, Pete comes in soon after, but eh...

enibas5
July 29th, 2015, 11:15 PM
Now after rewatching the later seasons, I have to correct myself.
I forgot, that the character changed later on. Unfortunately it was a little bit too late.
Anyway, I could for example enjoy "Gemini". That is of course, because it is focusing also on Replicator-Carter, which is so remarkably well done by AT.

Anyway, maybe it is not so much, that the character changes later on, but rather that this whole devote military behaviour is taken out of her character, which is mainly a result of Jack not being around anymore. So these constant "Yes, Sir", "I think, I have an idea, Sir", I apolgize, Sir - because I allowed myself to get disarmed", etc. etc. etc., which I always perceived as begging for reactions, like "it is Ok - you are a good girl", do not dominate her character anymore.
She also meets Landry more eye to eye than she did with Hemmond. Carter was always said to be a brilliant scientist, but acted mainly as a pure military character. That changed after O'Neill left.

Seaboe Muffinchucker
July 30th, 2015, 08:49 AM
I wonder whether these lacks you all find in Sam's character (some of which I don't agree with, some of which I do) stem from the fact this show is primarily written by men. So she's as much a male's interpretation of a strong female character as she is anything else.

Seaboe

enibas5
July 30th, 2015, 11:33 AM
Yes, that might very well be the case.
They made the character very much wanting to fit a "men's world", instead of opposing or rather adding to it by feminine traits.

Janet Fraiser
July 30th, 2015, 01:29 PM
I wonder whether these lacks you all find in Sam's character (some of which I don't agree with, some of which I do) stem from the fact this show is primarily written by men. So she's as much a male's interpretation of a strong female character as she is anything else.

Seaboe

That's where I find fault with the creation of her character. If anything, I think she's a male fantasy.

That's not to take away from her positive qualities; it's just how I feel she fits into the context of the show as written by men, even if it wasn't an intentional portrayal.

A basic example is that she is often used in fantasy sequences (e.g. "the Broca Divide," "the Other Guys," "Avenger 2.0," "Window of Opportunity," "Grace Under Pressure"). It's done in such a way that it's made clear that the real Carter would not act like she would in the fantasy, but the audience - or a certain character - still gets to enjoy seeing her do it. I'm trying to think of examples of this happening with the male characters but am coming up short.

Up until Grace, it isn't apparent, at least to me, that she has any real faults of character or problems to deal with unrelated to her work. The most conflict she seemed to have up to that point was when Jacob became a Tok'ra. There wasn't even any emotional fallout from being kidnapped and almost experimented on and killed in "Desperate Measures" because it's O'Neill who is shot in the end and the one we end up focusing on.

She is pretty much perfect - the most brilliant scientist in the country and possibly the world, which is good for a sci-fi show and its audience; an arguably patriotic military officer who is comfortable with guns and following orders; and gorgeous, as many, many people like to point out throughout the series. I recall reading somewhere that some writers, maybe the creators - I don't know - admitted that Carter was too perfect of a character. I'd have to actually find the source to be sure.

It's not just Carter's character, either. There are so many aspects to the show that make it apparent that it has a very male-centric POV, but that's a long discussion that's probably already been done to death over the years.

I snipped the rest of this post for being kind of unrelated. I still think she's a wonderful character, and I think AT is largely (mostly) responsible for that, limitations in the writing of her character or not.

Falcon Horus
July 30th, 2015, 02:48 PM
I wonder whether these lacks you all find in Sam's character (some of which I don't agree with, some of which I do) stem from the fact this show is primarily written by men. So she's as much a male's interpretation of a strong female character as she is anything else.

Something I recall Amanda saying somewhere - could have been a behind the scene or interview or something. But that does feel quite right why I have issues. I don't dislike or hate her character - I just have issues, and that explanation makes perfect sense to me. :)

Maybe why I liked her far better during the last two seasons, and especially in her interactions with Vala.

hedwig
July 30th, 2015, 03:30 PM
I wonder whether these lacks you all find in Sam's character (some of which I don't agree with, some of which I do) stem from the fact this show is primarily written by men. So she's as much a male's interpretation of a strong female character as she is anything else.

Seaboe

At one point, early on the series, Amanda said she told the writers/producers to write her character as they would write any male character, and she would then supply any female characteristics that were felt to be needed ... or something like that. So, apparently the writers took her up on that.

jckfan55
July 30th, 2015, 05:12 PM
So these constant "Yes, Sir", "I think, I have an idea, Sir", I apolgize, Sir - because I allowed myself to get disarmed", etc. etc. etc., which I always perceived as begging for reactions, like "it is Ok - you are a good girl", do not dominate her character anymore.
Funny, I never perceived it that way. remember at the beginning she is a lowly captain. Though I didn't like the apology in
Paradise Lost b/c I thought Jack should have been watching her back in that case.



She also meets Landry more eye to eyethan she did with Hemmond.
True, but in S8 she commands a team as a Lt. Col. Bound to be a slightly different relationship I'd think than as a captain or major.

Carter was always said to be a brilliant scientist, but acted mainly as a pure military character. That changed after O'Neill left.

I don't get that statement. Being an officer in the chain of command how could she not act in a military way and not be insubordinate? I do think she did act as a scientist though and did challenge authority a bit at times.
Maybe I'm just not following you.

enibas5
July 30th, 2015, 08:17 PM
Funny, I never perceived it that way. remember at the beginning she is a lowly captain. Though I didn't like the apology in
Paradise Lost b/c I thought Jack should have been watching her back in that case.
Yes, this in fact was the one, that I had in mind.



True, but in S8 she commands a team as a Lt. Col. Bound to be a slightly different relationship I'd think than as a captain or major.
...
I don't get that statement. Being an officer in the chain of command how could she not act in a military way and not be insubordinate? I do think she did act as a scientist though and did challenge authority a bit at times.
Maybe I'm just not following you.
No, it is me, who is sometimes having a hard time to find the right words. I am quite comfortable with the English languag, but still.. it is not my mother tongue.
I try again:
Carter has to follow the chain of command - no doubt. But I feel, she is overdoing this and not allowing herself to be the self-assured person, that she also should be as an outstanding scientist. We've discussed this in another thread - it was "chain reaction", I think. For her, following orders is more important than her scientific background. So, even if she knows, the orders given may lead to viping out this planet, she follows through - not even regretting her behaviour afterwards, but only blaming the one ordering.
I also remember her standing up, when O'Neill enters the room, after he got promoted. That is ridiculous. Having that kind of relationship and background together, you would only do this if the circumstances were somehow official. But that shows, how the writers wanted Carter to be all Military structured, with no sense for appropriate behaviour beyond that. The speech, she gave to that young cadet "Hayley"... I hated it. It was soooo "to crawl to the bigwigs and bully the underlings".
Of course, character perception also always has to do with the viewers own personality and background. I served 4 years in a police unit, that was very much like military. As a matter of fact, we even wore the same green uniforms as SG-1 does. So apart from being a brilliant scientist, I should be able to identify with Carter a lot. Well, I can't. To me it seems as if she leaves her personality at the entrance door of the SGC, every time she comes to work. It just does not feel right.
Sorry, cannot put it in better words. Maybe, because it is really more about "feeling" the fault in the character, that makes it so difficult to describe.

jckfan55
July 31st, 2015, 10:40 AM
I guess it is a personal impression. I have a very different interpretation of Carter. I'll leave it at that.

Falcon Horus
July 31st, 2015, 03:37 PM
At one point, early on the series, Amanda said she told the writers/producers to write her character as they would write any male character, and she would then supply any female characteristics that were felt to be needed ... or something like that. So, apparently the writers took her up on that.

:S

If they wanted a guy they should have just casted an extra actor instead of the token female.

Not exactly upping my impression of TPTW.

jckfan55
August 1st, 2015, 08:44 AM
The problem AT said she had was they started by writing Sam constantly pointing out that she was the girl and just as good as the guys. She said just write her as a character (in that sense, like you would write a guy).

Falcon Horus
August 1st, 2015, 08:45 AM
They never were any good at writing (female) characters, so it doesn't surprise - let me put it that way.

Anja
September 28th, 2015, 01:47 PM
Didn't like the plot the way it developed, cannot give reasons.
But I don't agree that writing female characters didn't work - who is competend enough to judge? Who knows about the writers' intention? Perhaps the characters just came round the way they were meant to? Who knows?:P

Falcon Horus
September 29th, 2015, 01:39 AM
...who is competend enough to judge? Who knows about the writers' intention? Perhaps the characters just came round the way they were meant to? Who knows?:P

There's more than enough evidence in Stargate that the writers didn't have the first clue about female characters.

jelgate
September 29th, 2015, 06:37 AM
There's more than enough evidence opinions in Stargate that the writers didn't have the first clue about female characters.

Fixed

Falcon Horus
September 29th, 2015, 06:41 AM
Fixed

Strong female characters... not a clue.

Anja
September 29th, 2015, 01:19 PM
What would a strong female character be like - Xena or Jean d'Arc (don't mind the spelling)?

Falcon Horus
September 29th, 2015, 03:04 PM
What would a strong female character be like - Xena or Jean d'Arc (don't mind the spelling)?

Not strong in the physical sense - well developed with plenty of good stories to give the actresses a chance to shine and kick butt (in whatever capacity that might be).

jelgate
September 29th, 2015, 03:36 PM
Not strong in the physical sense - well developed with plenty of good stories to give the actresses a chance to shine and kick butt (in whatever capacity that might be).
LikePa'u Zotoh Zhaan from Farscape?

Falcon Horus
September 29th, 2015, 03:53 PM
LikePa'u Zotoh Zhaan from Farscape?

Well now, that was quite the challenge. I'm sure one that Virginia Hey won't ever forget about. :p

Anja
September 29th, 2015, 10:11 PM
Haven't seen Farscape so, please, try another example.

Thanks!

Falcon Horus
September 30th, 2015, 02:42 AM
Then it's going to be hard giving an example if I don't know if you've seen the show/film or not.

Anja
September 30th, 2015, 01:15 PM
Have a try - I've seen two or three.

Falcon Horus
September 30th, 2015, 01:38 PM
Have a try - I've seen two or three.

Two or three?! That's rather limited... :p

Okay, let's see... a little more mainstream perhaps then... A character like Abby Sciuto from NCIS - well-rounded, developping throughout the series, ample time to grow into her own. An independant woman who can stand her own among the boys.

Anja
September 30th, 2015, 09:40 PM
Two or three?! That's rather limited... :p

Okay, let's see... a little more mainstream perhaps then... A character like Abby Sciuto from NCIS - well-rounded, developping throughout the series, ample time to grow into her own. An independant woman who can stand her own among the boys.

I think you got the joke - Abby is very special and extreme, I wouldn't call her a strong female character because she is very vulnerable sometimes and needs acknowledgement again and again. Don't get me wrong, I like her!
'Strong' should be more independent. I'll come up with an example just need some time to think it over.

Falcon Horus
October 1st, 2015, 04:17 AM
...needs acknowledgement again and again...

Clearly, we are not watching the same NCIS. ;)

I Am Not James Spader
October 1st, 2015, 07:01 AM
Not strong in the physical sense - well developed with plenty of good stories to give the actresses a chance to shine and kick butt (in whatever capacity that might be).

Are you saying Carter hasn't had that?

I think they've done a damn fine with the character (not counting Chimera of course).

As far as I'm concerned Tapping is the star of the show.

Falcon Horus
October 1st, 2015, 09:12 AM
Are you saying Carter hasn't had that?

No, she doesn't. Certainly not in the first couple of seasons, after that I don't know but she doesn't really come into her own until the limelight is no longer on O'Neill.


I think they've done a damn fine with the character (not counting Chimera of course).

I agree to disagree.


As far as I'm concerned Tapping is the star of the show.

She never was - one the of the stars, yes, but never the star.

If we're talking Sanctuary, on the other hand, then yes definitely star of the show. Also, liked her a lot more as Helen than as Carter too.

I Am Not James Spader
October 1st, 2015, 10:28 AM
No, she doesn't. Certainly not in the first couple of seasons, after that I don't know but she doesn't really come into her own until the limelight is no longer on O'Neill.

I'm on the seventh season and the "limelight" hasn't been on O'Neill in a long time, if ever. He is the lead, but Anderson has never hogged the screen nor has he been the sole focus of the writers.



I agree to disagree.

I don't agree to that...:sam43:



She never was - one the of the stars, yes, but never the star.

If we're talking Sanctuary, on the other hand, then yes definitely star of the show. Also, liked her a lot more as Helen than as Carter too.

There is a difference between "lead" and "star", but that is beside the point. And I'm not talking the "lead actor" or "it's an ensemble" - I said "as far as I'm concerned..." ;) - I'm saying that in my opinion Tapping is the star of the show - for me she outshines the rest of the cast at every turn (except Chimera... but no-one got out of that one unscarred :P). It became her show a long time ago.:)

Anja
October 1st, 2015, 01:37 PM
Big Brother at work here - where did you hide the camera and - more important - when?
There is only ONE NCIS with an 'Abby', isn't it.
You've got your opinion and I've got mine - sorry for that.
Is no one else except you allowed to post his/her own opinion?

I Am Not James Spader
October 1st, 2015, 01:55 PM
Big Brother at work here - where did you hide the camera and - more important - when?
There is only ONE NCIS with an 'Abby', isn't it.
You've got your opinion and I've got mine - sorry for that.
Is no one else except you allowed to post his/her own opinion?

At first I thought you were directing that at me. :P

The forum should have a way to tag other users rather than needing to quote them.

Anja
October 1st, 2015, 02:13 PM
At first I thought you were directing that at me. :P

The forum should have a way to tag other users rather than needing to quote them.

I'm glad you got it!!! :)

I Am Not James Spader
October 1st, 2015, 02:37 PM
I'm glad you got it!!! :)

:)

jckfan55
October 1st, 2015, 06:19 PM
I think the writers handled anything resembling a love life generally badly. When Carter was just doing her work and being a friend she was best, imho.

Falcon Horus
October 2nd, 2015, 03:55 AM
I'm on the seventh season and the "limelight" hasn't been on O'Neill in a long time, if ever. He is the lead, but Anderson has never hogged the screen nor has he been the sole focus of the writers.

The male lead, he was, once...


There is a difference between "lead" and "star", but that is beside the point.

Point taken.

Brother Freyr
October 3rd, 2015, 09:28 PM
I know I'm late to this conversation, but my observation is similar to (and also different from) what Falcon Horus was saying about a (not) well-developed Carter...

The writers created Carter as a less well-rounded person. O'Neill had a family. It was visited by tragedy, yet a family is part of O'Neill's backstory. Teal'c has a wife and son. Yes, he's separated from them most of the time, but they are part of who he is. Even Daniel found a soul mate, although she was torn from him. Her rescue is what drives him.

And then there is Carter. Does she have a spouse? No. Ex-spouse? No. Children? No. How about a serious, long-term relationship? No.

The men's families were sources for great story-telling. Carter's personal stories (aside from those about her father) were about whether she can find a true mate. Will it be a Tok'ra? An ascended being? Perhaps a police detective?

A married Carter could have generated some great stories. Carter as a single mom. Carter with a child being raised by her ex-husband. Etc, etc. Carter wtih her own family would have been a source for stories, just like those of O'Neill, Teal'c, and Daniel.

Carter is my favorite character, and the writers created great stories about her and her father. However, I think the writers found it convenient to have a perpetually single, attractive woman on SG-1.

Falcon Horus
October 4th, 2015, 02:24 AM
And then there is Carter. Does she have a spouse? No. Ex-spouse? No. Children? No. How about a serious, long-term relationship? No.

There was Jonah, the crazy ex-fiancé. But after that one episode he never came up again.

Anja
October 4th, 2015, 05:28 AM
There was Jonah, the crazy ex-fiancé. But after that one episode he never came up again.

And for good I think. Carter's early separation from Jonas surely is more than a hint that she developed to the better and wiser.