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GateWorld
July 30th, 2004, 06:37 PM
<DIV ALIGN=CENTER><TABLE WIDTH=450 BORDER=0 CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=7><TR><TD STYLE="border:0;"><DIV ALIGN=LEFT><FONT FACE="Arial" SIZE=2 COLOR="#000000"><A HREF="http://www.gateworld.net/atlantis/s1/104.shtml"><IMG SRC="http://www.gateworld.net/atlantis/graphics/104.jpg" WIDTH=160 HEIGHT=120 ALIGN=RIGHT HSPACE=10 VSPACE=2 BORDER=0 STYLE="border: 1px black solid" ALT="Visit the Episode Guide"></A><FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#666666">DISCUSS ...</FONT>
<FONT SIZE=4 COLOR="#0066BF"><B>THIRTY-EIGHT MINUTES</B></FONT>
<FONT SIZE=1>EPISODE NUMBER - 104</FONT>
<IMG SRC="/images/clear.gif" WIDTH=1 HEIGHT=10 ALT="">
The team finds themselves in mortal danger when their puddle jumper ship becomes lodged in the Stargate.

<B><A HREF="http://www.gateworld.net/atlantis/s1/104.shtml">Visit the Episode Guide >></A></B></FONT></DIV></TD></TR></TABLE></DIV>

DownFallAngel
July 30th, 2004, 07:52 PM
I loved this episode. it really showed that Lizzie had a backbone.

Cavnoph: "You just busted me donw like I was a private in the air-force."
Liz: "There are no priates in the air-force....."
Cavnoph: "And not on me either...."

She was awesome today.

ShadowMaat
July 30th, 2004, 07:53 PM
Quick question...

SPOILER if you're too stupid to have figured that out yet
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How come Teyla was able to drag Shep through the EH? Once she passes through, she's demolecularized. Shep's body was being dragged BEHIND her. Or rather, in front of her. So how come his feet weren't sticking out?

DownFallAngel
July 30th, 2004, 08:01 PM
I want to know where she got civilian clothes from.

Major Fischer
July 30th, 2004, 08:02 PM
Quick question...

How come Teyla was able to drag Shep through the EH? Once she passes through, she's demolecularized. Shep's body was being dragged BEHIND her. Or rather, in front of her. So how come his feet weren't sticking out?

Momentum perhaps? People get dragged through the gate fairly often on SG1.

And I want to say how much I LOVED this episode, I was sort of luke warm on the last one, but this really kept me excited. The pacing was good, the characterization nice, and I don't want to be the one to annoy Weir.

IWantToBelieve
July 30th, 2004, 08:02 PM
This episode was worth all the anticipation! It had everything. I loved it, and Cavanaugh is a jerk. I'm worried what that guy's going to do later on. That snarky grin he did at the end, ugh. Hopefully he won't rat them out to the enemy.

Did I say I loved this episode?

Hooo, wild ride!

DownFallAngel
July 30th, 2004, 08:04 PM
Yea, he was smiling when Lizzie was making him look like an @$$! Damn she is hot when she is mad! :D

greytop
July 30th, 2004, 08:07 PM
I like the part where Dr. Beckett was replying to Ford desribing the insect.
(Paraphased) "So you go yourself a cling-on."

I immediately thought of Star Trek.

agostumpy
July 30th, 2004, 08:08 PM
Are they going to figure out the saltwater connection? I thought they'd say something at the end of the episode.

1 The bug on his neck freaked out with saltwater
2 The Wraith are related to said bug
3 Where's Atlantis? In the middle of a massive pool of saltwater!! Why else would the Ancients put it there AND submerge it to get away from the Wraith.

Sucks that they didn't bring any Supersoakers with 'em!! They could just load 'em up and give the Wraith a nasty bath :)

Whaddya think?

** i started a thread on this under "Atlantis Season 1" **

IWantToBelieve
July 30th, 2004, 08:08 PM
ROTFL, that was a great pun. They did that bug thing really good, and very interesting about it being a pre-evolved wraith. Didn't see that coming.

ShadowMaat
July 30th, 2004, 08:10 PM
I immediately thought of Star Trek.
I think that was the point. ;)

Good ep. Once again, McKay was brilliant. However, I hope they start to tone down his "we're all gonna die!" attitude because much as I love him, it IS starting to get a little tedious.

I hope Weir does ship Kavanaugh off to an isolated world. All the rudeness of McKay circa 48 Hours with none of the charm and wit. ;)

I liked Dr. Z (even if I can't remember his name, either). Loved his reply to Weir asking what she could do: "Stop talking." :D

EDIT: While it would make perfect sense to have Atlantis be surrounded by salt water, do we know for a fact that it IS salty? Could be fresh...

Gotta say, the thing with the water gave me flashbacks to SAAB and the 58th squadron trying to give a captured Chig a drink of water. It melted...

DownFallAngel
July 30th, 2004, 08:10 PM
Did the bug jump on Ford?

They call me Tim
July 30th, 2004, 08:10 PM
Actually I had a problem with Weir's attitude...the scientist, all be it a jerk, was doing his job by presenting the options and possible implacations of what they were doing and it was apparent from the start that she wasnt going to consider what he said viable...he reacted badly but she didnt have to call himm out like she did......it didnt inspire the right kind of cooperative attitude that a leader should....I think that TPTB meant to portray her leadership qualities and that they did work since he got the team attitude later on but I didnt care for it...however I liked how she handled the 8ft dude and the tea prayer or whatever.....can we lose these people yet?? Anyway, great great episode and........how much do I love McKay? :D

David85
July 30th, 2004, 08:11 PM
Loved it!

Ford is the worse charater ever! I so hate him. Shepperd is screaming liek made "Are you ok?!?!" nine billion times! Then The "cut his shirt off", I think he just wanted to see Shepperd half naked. In the end I wish he would have died.

They call me Tim
July 30th, 2004, 08:13 PM
hadnt thought of the salt water thing but it is a really intersting idea...now I know what I will think about until Atlantis re-airs tonight :p

IWantToBelieve
July 30th, 2004, 08:14 PM
I liked Ford. He and Teyla did good this episode. And you can't fault a friend for worrying when you are hurt. You ask stupid questions like "Are you okay?" When your buddy is screaming in pain.

ShadowMaat
July 30th, 2004, 08:15 PM
That reminds me. Cheers to whoever called TPTB looking for excuses to remove Shep's shirt! Spot-on on that one! ;)

Only problem with Ford I had was his hesitation on using the paddles on Shep. Hello! Don't look for permission, just DO IT already! Sheesh.

I think Weir's leadership skills in general need a LOT of improving. She still rubs me the wrong way. I still don't like her.

DownFallAngel
July 30th, 2004, 08:15 PM
Elizabeth, Ford, McKay, Beckett, thats my top 4. In that order.

IWantToBelieve
July 30th, 2004, 08:18 PM
I'd have a hard time ranking mine, but Shep is first, no doubt. I think McKay, Weir and Beckett are tied for second, then Teyla and Ford in third. Actually, I'm liking them all. They are growing nicely! And worked really good in this episode.

David85
July 30th, 2004, 08:22 PM
I liked Ford. He and Teyla did good this episode. And you can't fault a friend for worrying when you are hurt. You ask stupid questions like "Are you okay?" When your buddy is screaming in pain.


That was the worse scream ever, I mean the pain was great. I would not have been annoying asking "Are you are?". No he ****ing isn't! What a dumbass.

Beckmen
July 30th, 2004, 08:50 PM
While it would make perfect sense to have Atlantis be surrounded by salt water, do we know for a fact that it IS salty? Could be fresh...

Actually, in Hide and Seek they were talking about de-salinating the ocean water, so I think the water IS pretty salty.

38 Minutes was a good ep, though.

ShadowMaat
July 30th, 2004, 08:55 PM
Actually, in Hide and Seek they were talking about de-salinating the ocean water, so I think the water IS pretty salty.
Forgot that line. Thankies. ;)

Liked 38 Minutes. Think it would have been neat if they could have done it realtime with a little countdown clock and everything, but I know that would have made it too complicated. And probably too close to 24.

Hopefully we'll see more of them actually going out on missions, now...

DownFallAngel
July 30th, 2004, 09:07 PM
They just got there. So it wouldn't matter. The producers are creative writers, so they know what they are doing.

ShadowMaat
July 30th, 2004, 09:11 PM
They just got there. So it wouldn't matter. The producers are creative writers, so they know what they are doing.
I know, but patience has never been one of my strong points. :P

I hope we get to see more of Dr. Z. Liked him. Loved the accent, too, although it probably isn't "accurate". ;)

DownFallAngel
July 30th, 2004, 09:12 PM
Was he Russian? Thats what he came off as to me. Not sure, never saw his flag.

ShadowMaat
July 30th, 2004, 09:15 PM
He was Czech, according to McKay. Didn't see the flag and wouldn't know it if I did. ;)

Yu Huang Shang Ti
July 30th, 2004, 09:28 PM
This is an idea I've been waiting to see for a while, but of course couldn't be implimented without a gate-capable ship (48 Hours notwithstanding). They sure executed it well!

Fanboy nitpicker mode: nobody mentioned that if half of an object's mass is already in, the gate will draw the object in and transmit it, like it did to Daniel's funeral wreath or the body of Apophis. But that wasn't really an option here, since getting the jumper in that far would have been as good as getting it all the way, so it's a minor point.

Z_2
July 30th, 2004, 09:37 PM
So, uh, is TickWraith lost in space? It was moving in the last "stuck PJ in the gate scene".

And... its fate wasn't really shown.

Hmmm. :S

Metonic
July 30th, 2004, 09:47 PM
It may of flew i nthe gate or hooked to the outside of the ship when it was pushed out but its unlikely. But yea why didnt the Gate just start pulling in the rest of the ship? And maybe the bug turns people int oWraiths lol

Also wouldnt Ford of been Dematerialised? I mean all but his hand right shouldnt it of dematerialed all but his hand? but then again it could be the whole all in one piece rule they had. but if thats the case wouldnt the people atleast come thru the gate?

ShadowMaat
July 30th, 2004, 09:49 PM
You'll have to say that last bit again, I didn't understand it.

Ford was in the clear when he pulled the leverl to blow the hatch. Then he and the rest of the ship were propelled forward through the wormhole, dematerialized and rematerialized on the other side. What does his hand have to do with it?

And it's "should HAVE" dematerialized. :P

Major Fischer
July 30th, 2004, 09:51 PM
Believe he means in the beginning of the ep when Rodney and Tayla pull him half out of the event horizon because when they got stuck he was in the forward part of the PJ.

ShadowMaat
July 30th, 2004, 09:56 PM
Believe he means in the beginning of the ep when Rodney and Tayla pull him half out of the event horizon because when they got stuck he was in the forward part of the PJ.
Ah. Thanks for the clarification. ;)

It just shows that until something is fully submerged in the event horizon, you can pull it out again. Like sticking your hand in and pulling it back out, only on a bigger scale. He was dematerialised and held in potentia, but with his hand sticking out it was still possible to retrieve him.

MY question is, why didn't the Wraith try and pursue the jumper? Isn't that partly why they were in such a hurry in the first place? They would have been sitting ducks, stuck there in the gate with no way to move and no way to get at weapons or shielding...

Of course, it would have made for a very short (or drastically altered) series, but still...

keshou
July 30th, 2004, 09:56 PM
I liked Thirty-Eight Minutes too. What is the deal, I'm enjoying everything so far this year. Maybe it's this shiny new forum or something.

* The story itself was interesting. Pacing was good, I felt the tension as the clock ticked down.

* Love McKay, every little pissy hypoglycemic inch of him. Love McKay, Ford and Sheppard interacting. Those three are great together. Teyla I'm afraid may be a lost cause for me although I'm trying to keep an open mind.

* Weir, hmm... Sometimes I like her, enjoy her strength and other times she just seems to be acting like a **** to prove she's in charge. I still think she has potential to become a good character. On a superficial note, I like her hair better straight and she seems to have packed quite a wardrobe.

* Like the international aspect of this expedition. Very cool. Czech guy was good.

* Okay, the bug looked kind of lame. But every bug I've seen on Stargate has been kind of lame. They just don't do bugs well I guess. :p But hey, who does?

All in all I think Atlantis is off to a pretty strong start. :D

ShadowMaat
July 30th, 2004, 09:58 PM
I was waiting for it to be one of the bugs from Bane.

Any chance it may have injected something into Shep? Might explain an upcoming plot point...

DJFavorite
July 30th, 2004, 10:10 PM
Pretty good episode. Atlantis hasn't disappointed me yet.

I'm really starting to like Elizabeth. At first, she seemed a little rough around the edges, but not so much anymore.

McKay needs to lighten up a little. His "doom and gloom" attitude will get old soon.

Meg_Ann
July 30th, 2004, 10:17 PM
Okay, I must be in the minority here, but I honestly didn't like this episode as much as some of the others.

I'll admit, there were good plot/characterization things going on, which I enjoyed a lot. However (and I don't profess to be an expert on wormhole physics ;) ), but weren't there a few plotholes?

So, most obvious one I could find is that the front of the 'jumper didn't rematerialize, which, honestly, it should have. There are a few examples in SG-1 where people have gone only partway through the gate, and have rematerialized on the other side.

Example? Shades of Grey. When Col. O'Neill finally caught the bad guys and whatever, he 'held the gate open' from the far side. This implied him going through the gate and keeping his hand INSIDE the gate, which prevented it from closing. His body (as we were shown), did in fact rematerialize on the other side. He was there for quite a while, too.

I hope I explained my point so you can understand it. If anyone can clear this up, much thanks. I might just be confused.


...Oh, and side note? What's up with SG-1 and Atlantis having stuff in common. Last epsiode - Black clouds. This ep - Those weird red suits. Coincidince? Conspiracy? Subliminal messaging? (Lol)

ShadowMaat
July 30th, 2004, 10:19 PM
Shades of Gray- I thought that was to keep the gate from shutting down prematurely. It has a tendency to shut down if it doesn't detect any material passing through it. The gate doesn't ALWAYS stay active for 38 minutes, right? The team goes through, the gate shuts down. Jack was holding it open so that wouldn't happen.

Meg_Ann
July 30th, 2004, 11:06 PM
I know, that's exactly what he was doing, but according to the science of this Atlantis episode he shouldn't have rematerialized on the SGC side of the Stargate until ALL of his matter was through, in one big clump.

Major Tyler
July 30th, 2004, 11:09 PM
Only problem with Ford I had was his hesitation on using the paddles on Shep. Hello! Don't look for permission, just DO IT already! Sheesh.Though he didn't hesitate to blow the aft section with him still in it. All in all I loved this episode! Ford and McKay were great, and Teyla is starting to grow on me (I'll have to get that looked at ;)) and Weir kicked booty when that jerko Cavanaugh got all up in her face.

Major Tyler
July 30th, 2004, 11:10 PM
I know, that's exactly what he was doing, but according to the science of this Atlantis episode he shouldn't have rematerialized on the SGC side of the Stargate until ALL of his matter was through, in one big clump.I agree with you, Meg_Ann...it was probably just a production error. They should have used the whole "holding signal" plot device.

GateWorld
July 30th, 2004, 11:29 PM
I think the rematerialization thing is explainable. Jack's hand did stay in the other gate room in "Shades of Grey" -- he walked full-bore through the event horizon, then probably stopped himself from fully coming through on the other side. He held his hand in the E.H. at the S.G.C. So the matter was transmitted, but not yet fully reconstituted, preventing the rogues from being able to disconnect the wormhole.

The sticky point I see in tonight's episode was the fact that the gate didn't draw the ship in once it was dislodged (as we've seen happen other times, as with the Russian submarine in "Watergate"). McKay figured it was because they had no inertia; it could be explained that the gate has a time limit in its systems to tell whether or not something is trying to pass through. After 37 1/2 minutes, its systems may have "forgotten" the puddle jumper and turned off the "auto-pull" feature.

Darren

Sargent Prendegast
July 30th, 2004, 11:31 PM
I'm with the rest of you that loved this episode. The pacing was good, the acting was good, and the story was good. My specific thoughts are :


Dr. Mckay's "we're screwed" attitude helped keep things tense, but see how it could get really annoying after awhile. He was definitely out of his element being on the other side of the wormwhole ;)

Dr. Weir is an enigma to me. She is one hot looking gal and all, and I liked how she tried hard to keep everybody focused on saving the teams life. But at the same time she did come across as more than [email protected]@ then perhaps she needed to be, but then again I'm not the leader of an expedition to another galaxy.

Dr. Beckett is quickly becoming my favorite character behind Major Sheppard. That clilng-on line and the look on his face after he realizes what he said is priceless. Major Sheppards reaction was pretty good to.

Overall an excellent episode and one I intend to watch again that's for sure. Stargate Atlantis is becoming a show I look forward to watching on Friday nights. Including SG1 of course ;)

Yu Huang Shang Ti
July 30th, 2004, 11:38 PM
The gate didn't pull the ship in because enough of it wasn't in yet. We've seen people enter the event horizon at less than half-mass and come back (the Teal'c/Kawalski fight, "holding the door open"), and we've seen more than half-mass go in and then get pulled (the corpse of Apophis, Daniel in the movie). So, we can conclude that less than half of the jumper's mass was past the threshold.

kadosho
July 31st, 2004, 12:23 AM
Seems like Murphy's Law is in full effect on both series.
Gotta admit that, heh.

Pegasus
July 31st, 2004, 12:52 AM
I like any episode that deals with the gate itself (eg Solitudes, 48 Hours),
not that I understand any of the physics supposedly behind it. I just try
to take everything pretty much at face value, because you can drive yourself
crazy :confused: by trying to resolve every little inconsistency and plot-hole!:p

I thought Weir handpicked everyone. And wouldn't there have been psych
evaluations? I didn't like Cavanaugh at all -well I guess we're not supposed to
- he turned out to be wrong anyway and then came up with the most obvious
answer - so he won't be any great loss, but I'm afraid he'll be back to make life
hell for everyone at Atlantis.

Other than McKay, none of the other major players do anything for me yet.
But I realize that it'll take some time for the actors to get a handle on their
characters. [Having now watched all of SG-1, there are :eek: moments in
season one when I wish he/she hadn't done it that way.;)]

Oh, and can we please lose Halling? Well at least we didn't see Jinto! :p

Major Tyler
July 31st, 2004, 01:14 AM
I have to admit, Ford throwing himself against the bulkhead to get the ship to move was a little dumb. :rolleyes: Don't worry, Aiden, you're still my favorite.

morjana
July 31st, 2004, 02:27 AM
Some notes on the episode:

Just a few notes on Stargate Atlantis' "Thirty Eight Minutes."

The episode was written by Brad Wright, and directed by Mario
Azzopardi -- who directed the "Stargate SG-1" pilot, "Children of the
God" and several other first season episodes, the last one being "Cor-
Ai." It was nice seeing his name -- and his work/talent -- back on
the screen for a Stargate production.

I watch TV with the closed captioning turned on, and there was a bit
of dialog in the last scene in the infirmary that was apparently
edited out as audio.

Ford: "Well I for one am back in fighting form. Thanks to the lovely
meal.

Teyla: "My people were happy to oblige."

Ford: "It tasted like chicken."


Nice use of humor again in this episode. I liked Beckett's joke about
the cling-on (Klingon), the mention of the Swiss Army Knife, and
Ford's statement after he tried the iodine on the creature -- "Well,
scratch that."

Gorgeous matte painting of the ringed planet.

I'm really liking Weir more after this episode. And Sheppard just
rocks, and I adore both Ford and Hewlett. Teyla needs some exposition
though for me.

Very enjoyable episode -- lovely music, terrific special effects,
beautiful matte paintings, and a wonderful job of acting from
everyone involved.

Morjana

ShadowMaat
July 31st, 2004, 06:00 AM
Inertia- as far as the wreath in F&W goes, I can see where one or both characters might have given it a slight nudge as they were placing it in the event horizon and thus it had SOME forward momentum. A bit weak, but that's the mot likely solution I can think of.

The PJ on the other hand, was stopped dead. And as for Ford throwing himself against the bulkhead, hey, I thought of the same thing. All you need is a LITTLE nudge, right? ;)

ShadowMaat
July 31st, 2004, 08:16 AM
Here's a question: They make a big deal about how whatever is inside the wormhole/event horizon when the gate shuts down will be lost forever. But that isn't strictly true, is it? The matter gets stored in the buffer. So why not have everyone move beyond the EH and let the gate shut down and then perform the same trick they used in 48 Hours to rescue Teal'c?

Maybe they don't know enough about the "new" gate to do that, or they don't wanna risk blowing the Ancient Dialing Device. But how come it wasn't at least mentioned as an option?

When the PJ entered the event horizon, the bow was still being carried forward based on momentum, right? It was just the stern that got stuck. So if they HAD performed the trick, should the initial momentum have helped carry the bow of the ship out of the gate and into the bay?

Silerwannabe
July 31st, 2004, 08:51 AM
Best ep yet! I do, think that the Wraith should have chuckled as it turned and left Shep to die with a bug on his neck. That would have been in keeping with the Wraith rep.

nugglebugget
July 31st, 2004, 09:08 AM
I was waiting for it to be one of the bugs from Bane.

Any chance it may have injected something into Shep? Might explain an upcoming plot point...
I was thinking about the "Bane" bugs, too.As for it injecting something into him,seeing that it had broken his skin,there's no telling what got introduced into his system.
If nothing else,it sure left one heck of a "hickey"!:eek:

ice_angel1119
July 31st, 2004, 11:31 AM
Did anyone else notice the Weir/Shepard interaction?

At first I thought it was my imagination, but then it seemed that Weir was more concerned for Shepard then she should've been. Then Shepard wanted to talk to her when he thought that he was going to die, and later wouldn't tell what he was going to say.

If it was just me then someone tell me I'm crazy but I kind of like the idea of them together. I can't see Shepard with Teyla.

Just my thoughts on the matter.

Anthro Girl
July 31st, 2004, 11:34 AM
Here's a question: They make a big deal about how whatever is inside the wormhole/event horizon when the gate shuts down will be lost forever. But that isn't strictly true, is it? The matter gets stored in the buffer. So why not have everyone move beyond the EH and let the gate shut down and then perform the same trick they used in 48 Hours to rescue Teal'c?
Wouldn't that depend on whether or not the gate considers a whole person to be a single item or the whole ship? Teal'c was only carrying his gun in 48 Hours and he and it went through and then the gate shut down. The crew in 38 Minutes were inside the PJ, which itself was not fully entered.

Just a thought...

Anthro Girl
July 31st, 2004, 11:39 AM
At first I thought it was my imagination, but then it seemed that Weir was more concerned for Shepard then she should've been.
I wouldn't say she was more concerned than she "should've" been. More like she was seriously concerned...and for good reason. That's her second-in-command there. TPTB are obviously setting up some "issues" with her command and leadership for her to demonstrate her capabilities. It only follows that she'd be concerned, even "more" concerned, about the life/death status of the main person she'd rely on to back her up.

ShadowMaat
July 31st, 2004, 11:51 AM
Wouldn't that depend on whether or not the gate considers a whole person to be a single item or the whole ship?
Good point. Hmm. Maybe save it as a last ditch effort in case all else fails? ;)

As for Weir showing more concern for Shep, I didn't get that impression at all. But then, I find everything about Weir irritating so I'm not likely to imagine her having fuzzy feelings for anyone...

keshou
July 31st, 2004, 12:14 PM
Did anyone else notice the Weir/Shepard interaction?

At first I thought it was my imagination, but then it seemed that Weir was more concerned for Shepard then she should've been. Then Shepard wanted to talk to her when he thought that he was going to die, and later wouldn't tell what he was going to say.

If it was just me then someone tell me I'm crazy but I kind of like the idea of them together. I can't see Shepard with Teyla.
I think that in the first few episodes they're kind of experimenting with the character dynamics a little bit to help us get to know the characters. I didn't particularly pick up that Weir was more concerned for Sheppard than she should have been - at this point I think they are still feeling their way toward a more comfortable friendship and working relationship.

I *do* think Sheppard has more interesting chemistry with Weir than with Teyla so far but I'm sure not ready to pair them up in a romantic sense.

ShadowMaat
July 31st, 2004, 12:18 PM
SPOILERS for RISING
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Weir has a boyfriend. While other folks may be perfectly willing to ignore things like that for the sake of a "good 'ship", I'm not. But like I said, I can't even see her having friendly chemistry with anyone, nevermind romantic...

DownFallAngel
July 31st, 2004, 12:19 PM
Why do you hate Liz so much Maat?

zen.monki
July 31st, 2004, 12:20 PM
Man that bug gave me the creeps, even though it was an obvious prop, just the thought of some big tick like that strapped to my neck (shudder).

I really liked this episode (didn't expect to). I liked Weir's display of leadership and I love how cool and decisive yet laid-back Sheppard is in almost every situation. Very O'Neill-ish, but with enough of his own flavor to make him seem original.


The medical Dr is another favorite. Teyla and Weir are sexy as all get out. McKay gets on my nerves a little as the "Chicken Little" character, but I have to admit I like him too.

Ford seems a little wimpy to me at times even though I think they want him to be this stern tough guy.

Zen MonkI

keshou
July 31st, 2004, 12:24 PM
Weir is married. While other folks may be perfectly willing to ignore things like that for the sake of a "good 'ship", I'm not. But like I said, I can't even see her having friendly chemistry with anyone, nevermind romantic...

Weir is married??? Huh??
Spoilers for Rising
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Wasn't the character Garwin Sanford played just a boyfriend or something??

DownFallAngel
July 31st, 2004, 12:26 PM
Yea...I trully beleive it was her boyfriend.

ChopinGal
July 31st, 2004, 12:28 PM
Weir is married. While other folks may be perfectly willing to ignore things like that for the sake of a "good 'ship", I'm not. But like I said, I can't even see her having friendly chemistry with anyone, nevermind romantic...

Where did you find out that the character is "married"? I only read that Garwin Sanford is her love interest but, then again, I haven't read too much about the new series.

As for the character herself, I think she has shown some development in asserting herself as commander, especially in this episode as she stood her ground with Cavanaugh and Teyla's friend who wanted her to focus on "dying" rather than "saving". Weir let it be known, in no uncertain terms, just where she stood in both confrontations.

As for ship, I think TPTB are not looking to go down that rocky road with the new series. The fans, however, will begin to see what they want to see and, just by nature of the male-female dynamics between actors, I'm sure there will be many future posts on shippy topics :rolleyes:

Major Fischer
July 31st, 2004, 12:29 PM
Weir is married??? Huh??

Yeah, I was under the impression he was just a boyfriend as well, did I miss something in published bios? Because if my spouse ran off to another galaxy without a kiss goodbye, I'd be seriously considering divorce.

Anthro Girl
July 31st, 2004, 12:29 PM
<grump>

WHOA! Hey! This is a thread for Thirty-Eight Minutes! Spoiler space for upcoming episodes, PLEASE!!!

</grump>


Oops...my bad. I forgot about the scene in Rising. Nevermind. Continue. :D

ShadowMaat
July 31st, 2004, 12:31 PM
Whatever. I'm wrong again. Someone told me her character was married and silly me believed it. *sigh* I knew I should have stayed in bed today. Crummy, crummy, crummy day.

Weir still has a significant other, then, and while long distance relationships rarely work, I don't particularly care for the idea of Weir "cheating" on her boyfriend by knocking boots with one of her subordinates.

As for why I don't like the character, I dunno. Everything about her just rubs me the wrong way. I don't like her attitude, I don't like her stance on a lot of subjects, I don't like a lot of what she has to say or the way she says it and while I'm trying to grant her the benefit of a doubt, everything she does still annoys me.


As for the grump about spoilers, we met the boyfriend in the pilot ep, remember? The one watching Weir's goodbye video?

DownFallAngel
July 31st, 2004, 12:31 PM
We are talking about in Rising Athro...when Weir sent a message to her boyfriend. Maat beleive it is her husband.

Here is a question for you Maat....where is her ring?

aAnubiSs
July 31st, 2004, 12:32 PM
I belive my goddess is wrong in this case.

ShadowMaat
July 31st, 2004, 12:38 PM
Here is a question for you Maat....where is her ring?
You know what? I said I was wrong, OK? I misunderstood. I listened to another fan who was WRONG and excuse me for not paying attention to every detail. I'm horribly sorry to have inconvenienced everyone.

Anthro Girl
July 31st, 2004, 12:39 PM
We are talking about in Rising Athro...when Weir sent a message to her boyfriend. Maat beleive it is her husband.
You're right and I agree...it isn't clear what their relationship is. Somebody mentioned an upcomer. Besides, I've already been "spoiled" on that one. ;) Nevermind me. It's hard to communicate on the forum when I'm closing my eyes. :D


Here is a question for you Maat....where is her ring?
Darn, but that annoys me. :rolleyes: It still doesn't establish anything. I've been married for six years. I wore...nay, we wore our wedding rings for however long we were at the ceremony/reception. We both don't like wearing rings.

Anthro Girl
July 31st, 2004, 12:41 PM
Not an inconvenience, Shadow. I just don't think it's been established...yet. :)

Major Fischer
July 31st, 2004, 12:52 PM
Sorry Maat, didn't mean to pile on, looks like all of us were replying at the same time as we all replied within 3 minutes of each other.

DownFallAngel
July 31st, 2004, 12:56 PM
You know what? I said I was wrong, OK? I misunderstood. I listened to another fan who was WRONG and excuse me for not paying attention to every detail. I'm horribly sorry to have inconvenienced everyone.


I'm sorry Maat, you know I don't ever question you!!!

But I replied, like a minute after you said her boyfriend, and so did like...5 other people. Sorry ma'am.

keshou
July 31st, 2004, 01:53 PM
You know what? I said I was wrong, OK? I misunderstood. I listened to another fan who was WRONG and excuse me for not paying attention to every detail. I'm horribly sorry to have inconvenienced everyone.
You didn't inconvenience anyone, I was just shocked when I read that. I guess a lot of others were as well because we all posted at the same time. (but I was first, yay me!).

It never entered my mind when I saw that scene in Rising that Weir would go off and leave a husband with a video message like that so I assumed he was a boyfriend. But the dialogue doesn't specify *what* their relationship was so I guess it's possible he was more than just a boyfriend. I'm sure all will be made clear at some point.


Weir still has a significant other, then, and while long distance relationships rarely work, I don't particularly care for the idea of Weir "cheating" on her boyfriend by knocking boots with one of her subordinates.

The important thing is that Weir isn't having a romantic relationship with anyone on Atlantis right now and hopefully they aren't going to push anything. I'm not crazy about her er..."knocking boots" with one of her subordinates either. That doesn't stop fans from speculating on how the relationships between the characters are developing and as to any chemistry they see between the characters.

Sorry, didn't mean to be part of the pile on. I was just truly shocked about the husband bit. :D

DarkQuee1
July 31st, 2004, 03:48 PM
Are they going to figure out the saltwater connection? I thought they'd say something at the end of the episode.

1 The bug on his neck freaked out with saltwater
2 The Wraith are related to said bug
3 Where's Atlantis? In the middle of a massive pool of saltwater!! Why else would the Ancients put it there AND submerge it to get away from the Wraith.

Sucks that they didn't bring any Supersoakers with 'em!! They could just load 'em up and give the Wraith a nasty bath :)

Whaddya think?

** i started a thread on this under "Atlantis Season 1" **

Yep. That was my immediate thought.


J.

Ice^^Heat
July 31st, 2004, 05:35 PM
friendly[/i] chemistry with anyone, nevermind romantic...

LOL! So she just has to be a cold leader? She can't make friends? I tought she was a civilian, not an cold Military officer.

Than the popcorn-football scene in Hide and Seek probably was a pain in the ass for you wasn't it?

ShadowMaat
July 31st, 2004, 05:43 PM
People don't have to be in the military to come across as cold and impersonal. I've already explained my feelings and reasonings on the character before, I really don't feel the need to explain myself to you.

Tokraed
July 31st, 2004, 06:02 PM
I'd have a hard time ranking mine, but Shep is first, no doubt. I think McKay, Weir and Beckett are tied for second, then Teyla and Ford in third. Actually, I'm liking them all. They are growing nicely! And worked really good in this episode.

McKay is at the top of my list with Beckett a close second. That Czech scientist, you know ... What's His Name ..., for having such a brief appearance, I thought he was pretty cool.

Hated the American scientist ... Anderson?? Was that his name?? Very appropriate that he wore a pony-tail because he was a horse's ass and Weir every right to geld him. Though, I agree with a previous post that he'll come back and cause trouble later.

Sheppard's okay. I don't know if they're setting Weir up for something in the future, but her character seemed to be in over her head during parts of this episode. Don't like how she handled Teyla's people when they wanted to make sure Teyla was prepared for her death. Not very diplomatic. Very ethnocentric.

I'm still waiting for more development of Ford and Teyla's character, as well as some more development of Teyla's people. The Death Preparation Ceremony was just a hint, at taste -- a tiny smackrel, if you will -- of their culture. Hope the writers have a few stories down the road that delves more into how people living in the shadow of the Wratihs deal with knowledge that they're just a food source waiting to be harvested.

Bobthespirit
July 31st, 2004, 06:04 PM
I have to say that I'm getting a little annoyed at the character dynamics. The characters just act a whole lot less disciplined than the characters from SG1. The only one that seems to have any real appearance of discipline is, ironically, Teyla. Maybe Ford.

McKay does nothing but whine about how doomed everyone is (Something, by the way, he *never* did in the SG1 episode Redemption). Weir yells at everyone antagonistically and risks their entire central base of operation to save a few people (Something which, if they got in the habit of, *ought* to eventually lead to their destruction). All the characters who aren't at the main cast do nothing but banter egomaniacally...

There isn't even a clear chain of command between Weir and Shepherd.

There are plenty of good things about Atlantis, I just hope they all become more disciplined, like 3/4 of the SG1 cast are.

Major Fischer
July 31st, 2004, 06:23 PM
There is a clear one, IMO. The colonel in Rising goes "as long as you remember who is in charge." and Sheppard replies, "That woudl be Dr. Weir."

That's pretty darn clear.

Yu Huang Shang Ti
July 31st, 2004, 10:12 PM
The Death Preparation Ceremony was just a hint, at taste -- a tiny smackrel, if you will -- of their culture. Hope the writers have a few stories down the road that delves more into how people living in the shadow of the Wratihs deal with knowledge that they're just a food source waiting to be harvested.

I thought there was a pretty good allusion to that -- after millenia of being harvested again and again with no hope of ending it, the people have chosen dignified acceptance of the inevitable. They aren't used to fighting, but surviving, and Halling's insistance on performing the ritual shows that.

I'd rather have several more events like that throughout the season than one "very special" religious episode that focuses squarely on it, and then that's it for years. We don't need the Athosians to turn into the Maquis.

zen.monki
August 1st, 2004, 07:40 AM
Hey, I just thought of a question for whomever remembers the SG-1 episode where they went to the abandoned planet and the giant flying bugs got a hold of Teal'c and injected him with some venom that essentially would have turned him into one of the bugs.

Do you think those bugs are related to the one that attacked Sheppard? I wonder if that planet was actually an Ancient outpost but we never went back to explore because of the dangerous insects.

ShadowMaat
August 1st, 2004, 07:42 AM
I would be very interested to see that idea explored. Even if the wraith bugs aren't related to the Bane bugs, if the one injected something into Shep... it could have some very interesting repercussions down the road...

Newbie
August 1st, 2004, 09:35 AM
well those Wraith bugs were on the planet that Sheppard found the Wraith base...so why did Wraith sleep on that planet? may be it's their homeworld, real one? and those bugs are their monkeys? But then again Teyla was saying something, and may be there are the same bugs on their planet...may be it's Wraith's homing 'devices'? And that's cool, I think, that there is a possibility that Wraith are the evolution of Wraith... that is something I'd like to see explored! And I do not like the idea of Sheppard being injected with something...that be too much of a copy from SG1...bad idea.
anyway, I loved the ep! I loved the flashbacks!!! :D And it's really cool that S(heppard)team decided to go back to the planet, and check it out. I didn't like that we did not see how Sheppard choose his team. I'm still not sure who is in his team... and Sheppard...what was he gonna say? was he gonna admit in love to Wier? :D

ShadowMaat
August 1st, 2004, 09:55 AM
Do we know if the Athosians did a lot of exploring through the stargate? I think something was mentioned in the pilot ep, but I can't recall.

I'm just curious about how Teyla could have heard of the bugs if they were only on the wraith homeworld (or whatever it was). How could they have gotten there, anyway? The gate is in orbit. Or are the bugs on other worlds, too? I don't know if I'd call them "homing devices", but maybe the wraith DO take them along as a weapon of some sort.

Incidentally, am I the only one who saw the wraith finger armor and thought of the goa'uld ribbon device? Mechanical cousins or random coincidence? ;) And is the armor meant to help them pierce the skin of their victims or does it serve some other purpose? Maybe offering some protection against the blood of its victims. They don't like salt water, right? Or at least the bugs don't.

Newbie
August 1st, 2004, 09:59 AM
well they did traide for sure...that's what was mentioned in pilot...and Teyla said that every world they VISITED knew about Wraith...and then the little boy knew some adresses, and Teyla knows some!
In 38 minutes...Teyla said that they told their children not to go far into the foods, beacuse of something like that living there...or something....so i think it's their homeworld she was talkin about.

ShadowMaat
August 1st, 2004, 10:08 AM
So... how did they get to the wraith world, then? Or do they know of another wraith world and the one with the gate in orbit just happens to be a current base which just happens to include some bugs?

Ugly Pig
August 1st, 2004, 10:08 AM
I apologize for being the only person who truly comprehends how screwed we are! Here's


PIGGY'S USELESS OPINION
of 'Thirty Eight Minutes'

This episode was great! Not a dull moment, and with the story playing out in near-real time, the sense of urgency was ever present and provided some actual tension. The icky wraith-parasite contributed its share, too. I wonder if we'll see this thing again and learn anything about its relation to the Wraith? I also liked how despite the return to the Wraith world (Why did they go back there, by the way? I'm sure there was a reason I didn't get.) we didn't see much of them. We still have left to see the full force of the Wrait... It might get interesting when we do, and until that happens just alluding to it could create enough tension.

The story this week wasn't very character-driven, but there were some nice moments for Weir this time around. She seemed more self-secure and in control than before. I especially liked it when she told off the Ego Guy (I don't remember his name, so I'll just call him that... Ego Guy.) who came across as a real self-centered jerk. While he did end up providing (part of) the solution to the problem, I don't like him. At all. Will we see him again? Will he still be a jerk? Or has he realized that the Atlantis world doesn't revolve around him?

Ford got to perform this week's heroic act, but other than that I still think the character needs more development. This is only the third (or fourth, depending on how you look at it) episode though, so there's no rush. I'm sure it will come with time. Same with Teyla, who I still feel is just "there".

McKay, despite his whining and reacting "a certain way to certain doom" (Nice line, by the way. Probably my favorite from this ep, maybe tied with his "screwed" line.) seems to have become more of a team player than before. I also got the feeling that he was concerned for his team mates when they were in trouble. He may be a bit arrogant, but at least he does realize that there are other people around besides himself.

Did anyone notice that they're using a new font for the episode title and the following credits now? For 'Rising' and 'Hide and Seek' they used the same font as they do in SG-1, which I liked for concistancy. I guess they changed it because they wanted a unique Atlantis font... Oh well. It's nothing I'll be losing sleep over. And while I'm on the subject of credits - interesting to see Mario Azzopardi back as a Stargate director. He directed the pilot of SG-1 as well as a couple of other early episodes, but nothing new for years. I guess TPTB want to work with people they're familiar with when they hire the additional staff needed to be able to run two concurrent series. Oh, and Brad Wright wrote this episode... Every episode of Atlantis thus far has been written either by him or Robert C. Cooper, or both.

And... And... wait, I don't have anything else right now. I guess I can only ramble so much. Once again, great episode. Now I can go back and see what everyone else have been saying about it.

ShadowMaat
August 1st, 2004, 10:12 AM
Didn't notice the changed font, but I did recognize Mario's name. Yay for TPTB for bringing him back. And I'm with ya on hoping for development of Ford. AND Teyla. And give Weir some NICE qualities, eh?

So far Shep, McKay, Beckett and maybe Halling are the only ones with good character development and strong established personalities.

Newbie
August 1st, 2004, 10:13 AM
So... how did they get to the wraith world, then? Or do they know of another wraith world and the one with the gate in orbit just happens to be a current base which just happens to include some bugs?
sorry i guess i screwed it up....by their homeworld i ment Teyla's homeworld.

jckfan55
August 1st, 2004, 10:21 AM
I agree that Weir had to assert her authority with the self-involved scientist. I wasn't as pleased with her handling of the "death ritual" confrontation. I'm surprised that as someone who's been involved in diplomacy, she started out with such a hard line with him--in effect dismissing his culture. Of course, time was short and she could hardly get into a deep cultural discussion. And she did eventually point out her rationale of focusing on any chance of life. It occurred to me that if Teyla wound up sure death was imminent, she probably could have done some form of the ritual herself.

BTW, who do you think it was who leaked the idea to Teyla's friend that they were all doomed? The pony-tailed scientist, perhaps?

Newbie
August 1st, 2004, 10:24 AM
So far Shep, McKay, Beckett and maybe Halling are the only ones with good character development and strong established personalities.
well i think that Wier is alos developed, not much....Becket is, imho, as developed as Wier....Teyla is very undeveloped and that makes me sad :*(

LoneStar1836
August 1st, 2004, 10:28 AM
I enjoyed this episode and am liking SG-Atlantis so far. :) Really disliked that American scientist. Weir can shove him through a wormhole anytime now. :p Other than that, the episode was good.

Just an observation. When Shepard hit Lt. Ford, it jarred the PJ a little causing it to slide into the gate a bit. Why didn’t they all start to rock the PJ. As I was watching, I was like why didn’t they just start “rocking” the PJ to get it unstuck. And at the end, I too would have been like Ford and ramming the front of the PJ to get it moving, but I did think that the gate “sucked “ things through once they entered the event horizon.

Just a nitpick here :p but, it really bothered me, and I’m not in the medical profession. Okay, Ford shocked Shepard to stop his heart. Fine. But then when they go to revive him, they should have been doing CPR because you are supposed to only shock someone who has a detectable rhythm. (I think I am remembering this right because some volunteer fire fighters came to a health class I was teaching about 2 years ago and demonstrate the use of an AED, and I believe they said the AED will not work if it detects that the person has no detectable rhythm. Thus you must do CPR.) Same goes for Dr. Becket when they got back to Atlantis. I know this is not a medical show, and it’s easier to zap ‘em rather than fake CPR, but that makes Becket look poorly trained, and I like Dr. Becket, as well as, Shepard and Ford. I also agree that the writers need to tone down McKay’s gloom and doom attitude. Still like him though. Not very enthralled with Weir and Teyla.

Oh did I mention it was a great episode. Keep it up. :)

ShadowMaat
August 1st, 2004, 10:30 AM
sorry i guess i screwed it up....by their homeworld i ment Teyla's homeworld.
Gotcha. My fault for interpreting it the way I wanted rather than the way it read. ;)

So the bugs are on multiple worlds. I can accept that.

How do the Athosians explore the gate system? If some gates are in orbit, you can't exactly go around dialing in gate addresses and then holding your breath before you go through...

NurseRatched
August 1st, 2004, 10:54 AM
De-lurking here and responding to LoneStar's good catch...

I am in the medical profession, and I'm a tad dismayed to see that Dr. Beckett, Lord love him, apparently graduated from the same medical school as Dr. Dana Scully.

First up, it's actually quite hard to induce a heart-stopping shock with a defibrillator, contrary to widespread belief. (You've literally got to time the shock so it hits right on the "R" wave of the cardiac cycle...chances of doing that on the first zap are very slim.)

I have no idea why the good doctor advised Ford to "lubricate" the paddles. (and indeed he did, with what looked like K-Y jelly. Ewww.) You either use electroconductive paste or gel - or gel pads, those orange square thingies you see when Beckett's running the code after the jumper gets through the gate. Either way, Shep should have received some nice burns on his chest to go along with the "hickey." Gel pads are (or should be) kept with all defibrillator units.

Yup, an AED would have made more sense to bring along rather than a "real" defibrillator unit. They're pretty much idiot-proof, they're lighter, and they're cheaper...they just aren't as impressive.

LoneStar's right, when Beckett's attempting to resuscitate Shep all the defibrillation in the world would not have been effective as he was in asystole (absence of electrical activity). What he needed was CPR and the appropriate drugs...not that Beckett could possibly have seen what rhythm Shep was in as he took the paddles (ie, the monitor) off his chest between shocks. I'm not even going to mention the fact that the defib unit was one of those models that have a running stopwatch in the corner of the screen, to help the "recorder" person during a code (everything is documented) - the unit had been running almost 30 minutes. Not an unrealistic time span for a real code; but a code 30 minutes long without CPR, a secure airway and IV access? Shep, if he had survived, would have been rendered a drooling turnip.

Apparently there are no infirmary beds with side rails on Atlantis, and I'm glad the patients are clothed in fetching red scrubs, complete with a nice white T-shirt underneath.

Don't get me wrong, I love this show, and this ep pretty much rocked - I just dislike X-Files medicine.

zen.monki
August 1st, 2004, 10:54 AM
Spoilers below









Did anyone else think it was strange that the bug reacted to salt and water (they weren't sure which or a combination thereof)? Doesn't human blood contain both?

ShadowMaat
August 1st, 2004, 11:09 AM
Spoilers below









Did anyone else think it was strange that the bug reacted to salt and water (they weren't sure which or a combination thereof)? Doesn't human blood contain both?
Hence my question about the purpose of those finger guards they wear. ;) Still seems kinda dangerous, feeding off something that is full of something poisonous to you. We aren't like blowfish, y'know, where it's just one little bit to avoid...

re the defribulators- I really wondered about that, too. Glad to know I was right to question it. ;)

Tokraed
August 1st, 2004, 11:32 AM
Just an observation. When Shepard hit Lt. Ford, it jarred the PJ a little causing it to slide into the gate a bit.

If I understand you right -- and I've got the right scene -- the Jumper went slide forward a little because McKay was distracted by events and accidently touched something wrong on the panel.

We taped both SG1 and Atlantis because I had to work. If you look closely, there's a cut to McKay watching events, a little flash on his panel, and then a panicky look on McKay's face. We had to rewind it twice to make sure we saw it right. Tha little flash probably caused the engines to fire a little, which cause the breach in the compartment doors.

ShadowMaat
August 1st, 2004, 11:41 AM
Incidentally, was I the only one expecting chocolate to be the thing that would get a violent reaction from the bug? ;)

NurseRatched
August 1st, 2004, 11:45 AM
Incidentally, was I the only one expecting chocolate to be the thing that would get a violent reaction from the bug? ;)

Nope. One of my housemates was yelling "Try the chocolate!" at the TV...


Can you just imagine it:

"Fork over the Hershey's, buster - or the Major gets it!"

Anthro Girl
August 1st, 2004, 11:56 AM
Incidentally, was I the only one expecting chocolate to be the thing that would get a violent reaction from the bug? ;)
Yah...I had visions of a homage to the MacGyver pilot where Mac saves the world from nuclear annihilation with a chocolate bar. :rolleyes:

ShadowMaat
August 1st, 2004, 12:10 PM
I can see it now: Ford makes McKay come over to help him test something.
McKay (chomping on his chocolate): Did I forget to mention that we're all going to DIE if I can't get those drives retracted? What's wrong with you people?!
*spittle flies on the last word*
*bug reacts violently*
*Shep screams*
Ford: What the hell did you do?
McKay: Me?? I didn't do anything. I was just pointing out-
*spittle flies again*
*bug is pissed again*
*Shep screams like a girl*
Ford: Maybe the bug is allergic to you.
McKay: Oh, yes. Very funny. Ha, ha.
Teyla: There are brown spots on Johnny's face that weren't there before. Perhaps it is your spit.
Ford: Johnny?!
McKay (glaring at Teyla): Excuse me, but unlike SOME people around here, I happen to be civilized. I do not spit when I talk.
*spittle everywhere*
*bug is REALLY pissed now*
*Shep crying like a baby*
Teyla: Hand over the chocolate or Johnny will die!
McKay: No! It's MY chocolate! I need it more than HE does!
Teyla: Do not!
McKay: Do too! *spittle*
Teyla: Not!
McKay: Too! *spittle*
*Shep begging for Mommy*
Ford: Wait, where did this "Johnny" thing come from?
Shep: Give. Chocolate. NOW!
McKay: Fine! Take your stupid chocolate! *spittle*
McKay goes back to work on the controls, sulking about his low blood sugar and dying in the company of savages.

NurseRatched
August 1st, 2004, 01:14 PM
New, Improved Puddlejumper Supply List:

1. Owner's manual (Cliff's Notes version)
2. A copy of "The Worst Case Scenario Handbook"
3. An AED :)
4. Big ol' can of Raid
5. XXL size Hershey's Syrup (in case #4 fails)
6. WD-40, if the jumper's stuck really, really badly. Plan B: Use the K-Y.
7. Something stronger than Tylenol
8. Athosian Death Prayer Tea Service for 6 (in case nothing works)
9. Subscription to OnStar service (darn, they could have had those pods retracted in no time!)
10. A bigger boat
11. More MRE's, for McKay's manly hunger
12. Large quantities of cheese, to go with his whine...

Anthro Girl
August 1st, 2004, 01:17 PM
New, Improved Puddlejumper Supply List:

Duct tape. You forgot duct tape. ;)

"In this life, you need two things: WD-40 to make things go. Duct tape to make them stop."
- Anonymous

ShadowMaat
August 1st, 2004, 01:19 PM
How about some space suits so that in the event of a sudden loss of cabin pressure they won't all die?
A Wrench of Unusual Size (hey, it works for Siler)

And technically, a smaller boat is what they needed here. ;)

acdj31
August 1st, 2004, 01:25 PM
Well at least now they will have a diagram of the circuits in the puddle jumper just in case something like this happen again. Or at least have a emergency button in the back for the engines.

ShadowMaat
August 1st, 2004, 01:27 PM
Also, the whole "actions tried out on the ground and relayed back to trapped team" thing reminded me a bit of Apollo 13... Different situations, of course, and I'm sure the trick has been performed in lots of other places, but that's the one that came to mind.

zen.monki
August 1st, 2004, 01:37 PM
I'm just curious about how Teyla could have heard of the bugs if they were only on the wraith homeworld (or whatever it was). How could they have gotten there, anyway? The gate is in orbit. Or are the bugs on other worlds, too? I don't know if I'd call them "homing devices", but maybe the wraith DO take them along as a weapon of some sort.

I kind of assumed that the bugs were indigenous (sp?) to the Wraith-planets. Kind of like ants or other bugs hitching rides on human vessels. Maybe they don't attack Wraiths.


FYE: sometime late in the night after watching this episode, I wanted to look at the stars from my deck and at one point backed right into a garden-spider's web (the big yellow, green and black spiders -- don't bite as far as I know, just big). Some serious freak-out antics followed as the spider, who actually landed right on my neck, tried to get away to safety.

zen.monki
August 1st, 2004, 01:40 PM
Hence my question about the purpose of those finger guards they wear. ;) Still seems kinda dangerous, feeding off something that is full of something poisonous to you.

Oh, I didn't understand that before and umm, actually didn't notice the finger guards either. :o Were they on all the Wraiths?

zen.monki
August 1st, 2004, 02:21 PM
Rofl!
:)

ShadowMaat
August 1st, 2004, 03:15 PM
Oh, I didn't understand that before and umm, actually didn't notice the finger guards either. :o Were they on all the Wraiths?

Do I need to spoiler warn for Rising?
.
.
.
.

They were on Marilyn Manson. She used them, I guess, to rip into Sumner's chest.

prion
August 1st, 2004, 03:40 PM
GREAT episode!

Loved it despite a few flaws here and there, but my favorite one so far.


STARGATE_ATLANTIS_TALK
http://tv.groups.yahoo.com/group/Stargate_Atlantis_Talk/

Ugly Pig
August 1st, 2004, 03:49 PM
The matter gets stored in the buffer. So why not have everyone move beyond the EH and let the gate shut down and then perform the same trick they used in 48 Hours to rescue Teal'c?
Already posted this in some other thread, but since it's relevant here as well I'll copy and paste:

Because it was not the same situation. In 48 Hours, Teal'c was transmitted through the wormhole and received by the target gate, just not rematerialized. They hooked up the DHD and made the gate finish the proccess.

However, in 38 Minutes, the Puddle Jumper was not transmitted through the wormhole to the target gate. Remember, the problem they were dealing with was that the the gate wouldn't send anything through until the whole ship had passed through the event horizon. So there was nothing in the buffer of the target gate to rematerialize.

zen.monki
August 1st, 2004, 04:41 PM
However, in 38 Minutes, the Puddle Jumper was not transmitted through the wormhole to the target gate. Remember, the problem they were dealing with was that the the gate wouldn't send anything through until the whole ship had passed through the event horizon. So there was nothing in the buffer of the target gate to rematerialize.

See my related argument at the link below.
http://forum.gateworld.net/showthread.php?p=82023#post82023

Newbie
August 1st, 2004, 06:29 PM
oky Shadow I think that may be Athonias have a list/yellow-page-book (lol) of addresses their parents went to and form people on other planets they might get new adresses for trade and stuff like that...so it's not really exploration, but trade...
why did salt with water worked...well aparently that buble with blod was made of sensative material/skin...and solt with water always works on that...so...yeah
and yeah i too was thinking about choclate!!! :D

ShadowMaat
August 1st, 2004, 06:33 PM
Still sounds sketchy to me, but whatever. ;)

As for the bug... technically, we don't KNOW that chocolate isn't poisonous to it. They got to the salt/water and stopped. They never tried the chocolate or whatever else they had.

So it's still possible that chocolate could save the day. :D

Newbie
August 1st, 2004, 06:35 PM
what if sheppard actually drunk that alcochol, that would spoil his blood...and could make that bug drunk :D or make his blood distaseful to the bug...and there is the end....i think there were more ways to save sheppard but stoping his heart....

ShadowMaat
August 1st, 2004, 06:46 PM
To get back to the point I think someone else was making- and forgive me for being a little slow (slower than usual), but if the bug hates salt/water, why was it drinking Shep's blood? Or, at least, it was doing something to him. I was thinking more of the wraith, but the bugs definitely shouldn't like humans if they have an aversion to salt.

from the straightdope.com website:


Interestingly, the proportion of minerals and salts in human tissue is very similar to the composition of seawater. The adult human body contains enough salt to fill about three salt shakers...

The above quote is part of an answer to the question What would happen if you drank seawater? (http://www.straightdope.com/mailbag/msaltwater.html) and while it isn't entirely relevant to the conversation, it does have some interesting things to say about salt... and about seawater, which is what surrounds Atlantis.

Newbie
August 1st, 2004, 06:52 PM
umm i think solt doesn't bother bug from the inside of his...'stomach'?...it's the puter 'skin' that's vanulable...and when it's damaged it sucks more blood out of Sheppard to regenerate faster

ShadowMaat
August 1st, 2004, 06:55 PM
Sounds awfully convenient, but I guess it could be the equivalent of pepper spray in human eyes. *sigh* Dunno why I bother researching this stuff, everyone just keeps shooting down whatever I find...

Newbie
August 1st, 2004, 06:59 PM
lol....sry....but you just bring up good points and i try to...'explain' whatever i can with the experience i've got...anyway...episode rocked!!!

Anthro Girl
August 1st, 2004, 07:10 PM
Sounds awfully convenient, but I guess it could be the equivalent of pepper spray in human eyes. *sigh* Dunno why I bother researching this stuff, everyone just keeps shooting down whatever I find...
I'm just crossing my fingers hoping that all that talk about "saltwater" possibly maybe sort of being an Achilles' heel is bunk. I've already seen [that movie] and I hated it.. :p

NurseRatched
August 1st, 2004, 07:18 PM
Y'all are assuming that the FunkyAlienBug <tm> was feeding off Shep's blood; I don't necessarily agree with that. In "Rising" Queen Marilyn used her nasty manicure to kill Colonel Sumner (and sure, he had punctures on his chest, and yes, they were bleeding) - but he wasn't bleeding to death when Shep shot him, right? He looked old, really old.

OK. Assuming that FunkyAlienBug shares some physiology with the Wraith, it wouldn't need blood on which to feed - just a living person/animal. I think it somehow extracts "life energy" from its victim in the form of ATP - adenosine triphosphate - the biological molecule which enables cellular energy to be transported and easily utilized.

When a person moves, breathes, exists, ATP is being used. When ATP runs out, life can no longer be supported. What better reason for FunkyAlienBug to immobilize its victims? Less movement = more ATP stores.

(Disclaimer - I'm not proposing that depleted ATP alone would make a person seem to age 50 years in less than a minute - I defer that issue to Queen Marilyn. Oh, she's dead. Never mind.)

The whole "bug on the neck" think is probably a convenient (and visually captivating) portal for FAB to a) deliver the venom/neurotoxin, and b) make sure it can't be easily removed (nasty pincer things close to major blood vessels, nasty legs around the throat).

You also don't necessarily need to have a bite/sting/whatever into a major blood vessel to effectively introduce a neurotoxin. Case in point - Australia's own blue-ringed octopus. Cool, but lethal critters.

ShadowMaat
August 1st, 2004, 07:26 PM
Even if it was feeding off his life-force, it had some kind of proboscis thing stuck into him, didn't it? Or maybe that bit of it is immune to the salt.

Anthro Girl
August 1st, 2004, 08:16 PM
Just rewatched it. Still smiling.

I loved the "cling on" joke and everybody's (especially Beckett's) reaction. Overall, I really enjoyed this one. I did, however, skip through the Halling/Weir scene. It went on for far too long, and I don't mean from the point of view of directing. I'm sure there will be more on that particular pair's interaction as we go along. ;)

kiwigater
August 1st, 2004, 10:23 PM
Y'all are assuming that the FunkyAlienBug <tm> was feeding off Shep's blood; I don't necessarily agree with that. In "Rising" Queen Marilyn used her nasty manicure to kill Colonel Sumner (and sure, he had punctures on his chest, and yes, they were bleeding) - but he wasn't bleeding to death when Shep shot him, right? He looked old, really old.

OK. Assuming that FunkyAlienBug shares some physiology with the Wraith, it wouldn't need blood on which to feed - just a living person/animal. I think it somehow extracts "life energy" from its victim in the form of ATP - adenosine triphosphate - the biological molecule which enables cellular energy to be transported and easily utilized.

When a person moves, breathes, exists, ATP is being used. When ATP runs out, life can no longer be supported. What better reason for FunkyAlienBug to immobilize its victims? Less movement = more ATP stores.

(Disclaimer - I'm not proposing that depleted ATP alone would make a person seem to age 50 years in less than a minute - I defer that issue to Queen Marilyn. Oh, she's dead. Never mind.)

The whole "bug on the neck" think is probably a convenient (and visually captivating) portal for FAB to a) deliver the venom/neurotoxin, and b) make sure it can't be easily removed (nasty pincer things close to major blood vessels, nasty legs around the throat).

You also don't necessarily need to have a bite/sting/whatever into a major blood vessel to effectively introduce a neurotoxin. Case in point - Australia's own blue-ringed octopus. Cool, but lethal critters.

Good grief! Seeing as I'm ~6mths away from a PhD in Biochemistry I just HAD to respond to this.... :D :D (it's like my own personal bait! :p :D ).

OK, first time I've seen ATP mentioned on the forum!!! LOL :D See, now you've got me thinking about whether this is actually possible.....

I'm thinking that unless the FunkyAlienBug (FAB! LMAO :D ) has processes that delved into every single cell in the body, this just doesn't make sense. First off, ATP doesn't just float about the place, its very tightly regulated, and secondly, even if you depleted every molecule of ATP you wouldn't age 50 years - after all this is essentially what cyanide does - brings the electron transport chain to a screaming halt, but your cells will keep doing what they do until they run out of ATP - and you end up dead :(

You're right, there is nothing to say the FAB was taking blood, after all, there was suprisingly little blood after they finally detached the thing, and if it was hooked into his carotid unless it was a very regulated eater the pressure of arterial blood should have blown it up like a balloon. :S
*contemplative look*
I guess it could have been feeding off the electrical energy of the body - makes sense if it's like the wraith. Still doesn't answer the whole aging thing... but then as your sig so eloquently says "we suspend out disbelief and we are entertained" :D :D

*kiwigater wanders off to find a life... :p :D *

greytop
August 1st, 2004, 10:31 PM
umm i think solt doesn't bother bug from the inside of his...'stomach'?...it's the puter 'skin' that's vanulable...and when it's damaged it sucks more blood out of Sheppard to regenerate faster
The bug may have an emzye to neturalize the saltwater so it can feed without harming itself.
The thought of this gave me an idea. Since Sheppard died and then brought back to life, his immune system will have a chance to build up a immunity to the bug emzye and he will be immune to the Wraith also, since the bug is related to them.

airdish
August 2nd, 2004, 12:39 AM
Did anyone else notice the Weir/Shepard interaction?

At first I thought it was my imagination, but then it seemed that Weir was more concerned for Shepard then she should've been. Then Shepard wanted to talk to her when he thought that he was going to die, and later wouldn't tell what he was going to say.



I think Shepard was going to say that they should learn about the bug because it might lead to a way to kill the Wraith. Then at the end he just said what he thought Weir wanted to hear.

zen.monki
August 2nd, 2004, 10:03 AM
Shadow:
I'm with you... if it turns out the bug-bane is salt and / or water, it doesn't make sense to me either.

GreyTop:
I like the concept of Sheppard becoming immune. Kind of like Carter's exposure to Jolinar opening up some story-possibilities.

ShadowMaat
August 2nd, 2004, 10:06 AM
Immune? Bah. Where's the fun in that? Much more interesting to have it slowly alter his DNA so that he becomes a Wraith! Maybe that's what all the drone-warriors are...

aschen
August 2nd, 2004, 10:28 AM
This ep. got kind of boring after a while.

Z_2
August 2nd, 2004, 10:41 AM
Don't we have salt and water in our bodies? Do you think there has to be a certain concentration of salt to affect the TickWraith or possibly the Wraith also? Or else we wouldn't be too "agreeable" as Wraith food.

But- maybe there's a certain method they learn in their book, "How to Serve Man"...

:p

GhostPoet
August 2nd, 2004, 11:37 AM
Best SGA episode yet.
I'm really starting to get a feel for the characters now...this episode really fleshes them out more. All of the actors did well...and I enjoyed the stressful interaction between Weir and that nerd with the ponytail. Conflict is always a good thing to make a character grow stronger.

Tokraed
August 2nd, 2004, 12:02 PM
To get back to the point I think someone else was making- and forgive me for being a little slow (slower than usual), but if the bug hates salt/water, why was it drinking Shep's blood? Or, at least, it was doing something to him. I was thinking more of the wraith, but the bugs definitely shouldn't like humans if they have an aversion to salt.

from the straightdope.com website:

The above quote is part of an answer to the question What would happen if you drank seawater? (http://www.straightdope.com/mailbag/msaltwater.html) and while it isn't entirely relevant to the conversation, it does have some interesting things to say about salt... and about seawater, which is what surrounds Atlantis.

I didn't pay too much attention to the application of the salt and the water. But, I read this site and came up with the following possibilities.

1. If the human body's blood contains saltwater but drinking saltwater from the oceans kills us [per the above article], then wouldn't an increased dosage of saltwater to the FAB [LOVE that abbreviation!] trigger an adverse reaction? The FAB did live on land and trap land creatures to live, so it had to be used to a certain percentage of salt from "ingestion" of it's prey.

2. The change in the ratio of saltwater to other minerals/chemicals in the human body might actually be poisonous to the FAB. Humans can take digitalis in small doses for medicinal purposes. In larger doses, it kills.

3. If the saltwater was applied more to the outside of the FAB, then it could act like iodine on an open wound to the more sensitive parts.

And, this last one has nothing to do with the saltwater stuff, but ...

I would've like to seen them try the chocolate on the FAB, too!! Could've worked. Chocolate is lethal to dogs. Of course, taking the chocolate from McKay and giving it to the FAB might've been just as lethal to the bug!

Tok'Ra Hostess
August 2nd, 2004, 12:51 PM
Arrrgh!!! FCOL! I HATE it when the forum eats my posts. (note to self: 'copy' all replies before clicking "submit" :( )

<sigh>Anyways....

Loved the ep.

I think RachetNursed suggestions for the Jumper kit are terrific! :D

FAB! LOVE it! :D

Think that the salt-water thing was plausible. The salt water was being applied to FAB's skin not into its digestive(?) system. Human stomachs safely hold hydroclhoric acid, yet one wouldn't want to have that slathered over an arm.

I don't have a quibble about any of the characters. Thought they all did very well in their respective roles. I do enjoy getting to see more people with important parts to play, for good or ill, on the show.

One thing I especially appreciate - are you listening, PTB? - is the sense of closure to the situations you are putting the cast through. Keep it up, PLEASE!

oops! remember to 'copy', now....

Tok'Ra Hostess
August 2nd, 2004, 01:05 PM
Oh, yeah, and another thing from my first post that I forgot to add (due to being distracted by irritation<grumble>)

I think this FAB may explain what happens in the next ep.

Just a Theory, Mind You, Spoilers for Suspicion

:)
;)
:p
:D
:o
:(
:rolleyes:
:cool:
:S
:eek:

I wondered why Wraith dude let Sheppard be. We know that the Wraith use some form of telepathic communication; what if they can also communicate to a certain extent with lesser creatures?

What if FAB sucks more than just energy from its victim? What if it also gets mental images from them? The Wraith could use this info as a means to track "herd" movement.

Now, interestingly, Sheppard did not die. What if the venom secreted by FAB acts as a marker, attracting the attention of FABdom on whatever planet Sheppard vists that FABs happen to inhabit?

oops! remember to 'copy', now....

Z_2
August 2nd, 2004, 01:31 PM
So is the newly coined "FAB" gonna be the accepted term for the TickWraith thingy?

And, is there a place where all of the TLAs (Three Letter Acronyms or Three Letter Abbreviations), and such terminology can be found?

Thanks!

Z_2
August 2nd, 2004, 01:44 PM
From the Alien Entry the 3rd:

We are going to the herds, where I will count and manage the culling, and where we will feed.

Though I am thus focused on the journey ahead, I also wonder if the pack of humans will return to the planet where we so lately slept. Surely their blind animal arrogance will bring them nosing after us again. They will be cowed, however, by what we have left behind us. Our warriors await them, and other, more ancient threats prowl the forests there as well.

I don't think the ancient threats are Wraith "pets", but still, ya gotta think that Sheppard's gonna have some ill effects from having a big pain in the neck. Maybe at the least he'll contract Lyme disease or Rocky Mountain Spotted Fever or something? :(

Did they act like he was poisoned or disabled in any way because of the bite?

ShadowMaat
August 2nd, 2004, 01:45 PM
Nope. But symptoms don't always manifest immediately... :D

Tok'Ra Hostess
August 2nd, 2004, 02:09 PM
[QUOTE=Z_2]From the Alien Entry the 3rd:

Uh, sorry, where did you get this? Rising? I don't remember an Alien entry the first, let alone the third. :S


I don't think the ancient threats are Wraith "pets",

No, me neither, but an observant hunter often uses the instincts and actions of other animals to help find prey. The Wraith wouldn't train the things, just observe them. They could use a creature like FAB to track herds, like we Earth farmers use birds to find our lost cattle. (Birds tend to follow cattle around because of the way cattle disturb the ground when eating grass; makes it easy for birds to get grubs and worms and stuff.)


Did they act like he was poisoned or disabled in any way because of the bite?

His extremities were slowly going paralysed, and someone either on board the PJ or Beckett back at the base surmised that the creature had injected Sheppard with a neurotoxin, right?

(I've only seen the ep once, on squin-Ty V. Details are getting fuzzy. Must go rewatch, now. :) )

Ugly Pig
August 2nd, 2004, 02:51 PM
Right now, for no reason and right out of the blue, I will announce to the forum that I'm thinking the wraith bug may not be what the characters assumed. What if it is an actual wraith? I mean, like a larva or something that will go through some kind of metamorphosis and become a wraith baby or something...

In any case, I get the feeling it has a different connection to the wraith than simply being an earlier point in their evolution...

ShadowMaat
August 2nd, 2004, 02:57 PM
I wondered about that. But going from little bug to giant humanoid is too big a leap in logic for me to accept.

I also considered the idea that those facemasks the warrior drones wear might actually be more like a facehugger which seizes control of its victim, turning whoever it is into an obedient little servant of the wraith.

Not sure that idea works, either. ;) Just off the cuff sorta thing.

Z_2
August 2nd, 2004, 03:19 PM
Uh, sorry, where did you get this? Rising? I don't remember an Alien entry the first, let alone the third. :S

His extremities were slowly going paralysed, and someone either on board the PJ or Beckett back at the base surmised that the creature had injected Sheppard with a neurotoxin, right?

(I've only seen the ep once, on squin-Ty V. Details are getting fuzzy. Must go rewatch, now. :) )

Scifi.com used to have an alien section with a drop-down menu to see all of the entries some Wraith or Keeper has made, but now it just defaults to the third entry (http://www.scifi.com/atlantis/aliens/) Maybe they're adding more content?

And I remember now that Sheppard was paralyzed as the TickWraith was attached, but I can't remember what his condition was like back in Atlantis, if he was suffering any lasting effects or not. I'll have to watch it again, too.

I think if prey is numbed but still alive, it's a way for the parasite to feast/lay eggs/rewire some circuitry/mess with host in sorta a surgical way without putting the victim in shock or something. And right now, my neck is tweaking out... :eek:

Anthro Girl
August 2nd, 2004, 03:27 PM
I wondered about that. But going from little bug to giant humanoid is too big a leap in logic for me to accept.
Oh yeah...and Transformers made sense? :p

I applaud the imagination. Me, I just think they're FABs. :) No reason why alien planets wouldn't have alien bugs. As for the whole "sucking the life" argument that makes Teyla believe they are somehow related to the Wraith...well, I want to think that's just an example of her somewhat primitive thinking. (I'm probably wrong. I'm sure TPTB are setting me up for a zinger.)

Ugly Pig
August 2nd, 2004, 03:31 PM
I wondered about that. But going from little bug to giant humanoid is too big a leap in logic for me to accept.
In any case, I'm sure they have some relationship to the wraith. I don't buy that the wraith guy just left Sheppard alone because he figured he'd die anyway... Either he wanted the bug to keep feeding on him, or he knew the bug would do something else to him...

Besides, why else even include that particular flashback sequence? It didn't really have any relevance for the rest of the story... :D

ShadowMaat
August 2nd, 2004, 03:35 PM
It was a bit of filler. It explained how Shep went from being chased by the wraith to getting snared by the bug to getting back on the ship with no problems. Although you're right, it could easily have been Teammates to the Rescue! Fending off the attacking wraith and pulling Shep to safety. If they're "just bugs" and it's a one-off sorta thing, I shall be very disappointed. :P

Phoenix Blue
August 2nd, 2004, 11:11 PM
what if sheppard actually drunk that alcochol, that would spoil his blood...and could make that bug drunk :D or make his blood distaseful to the bug...and there is the end....i think there were more ways to save sheppard but stoping his heart....

Nice thought, but the term "alcohol" is a loose reference to the -O-H functional group in chemisty. "Ethyl alcohol" or ehanol is the stuff people drink. If someone drinks "the wrong kind of alcohol", they will have an adverse reaction, like going blind or dying.

Just a scientific clarification for a science fiction show. ;)

Phoenix Blue
August 2nd, 2004, 11:37 PM
Sorry if I'm opening up dead topics but I'm new and I've got a few ideas...


McKay's my favorite character to watch, but Weir is the character I most want to be like.

You know what they say about the difference in popular perception between strong men and equally strong women...

Phoenix Blue
August 2nd, 2004, 11:39 PM
Some more thoughts...

I agree with Ice Angel on the whole what-was-Sheppard-gonna-say-to-Weir-when-he-thought-he-was-going-to-die-thing.

It's just that in all the movies and T.V. shows I've seen, when a member of one gender says "I have to tell you something" to a member of the opposite gender when they're facing death, it has meant "I love you", including Sam and Jack in SG-1.

Newbie
August 3rd, 2004, 12:07 AM
i was talking about what-was-Sheppard-gonna-say-to-Weir-when-he-thought-he-was-going-to-die-thing like two/3 pages before...becuase of that i'm starting John/Elizabeth shippper!!! who's with me?!!

Keen
August 3rd, 2004, 12:21 AM
So, most obvious one I could find is that the front of the 'jumper didn't rematerialize, which, honestly, it should have. There are a few examples in SG-1 where people have gone only partway through the gate, and have rematerialized on the other side.

Example? Shades of Grey. When Col. O'Neill finally caught the bad guys and whatever, he 'held the gate open' from the far side. This implied him going through the gate and keeping his hand INSIDE the gate, which prevented it from closing. His body (as we were shown), did in fact rematerialize on the other side. He was there for quite a while, too.In SoG, you see O'Neill run through the gate in his entirety. He then presumably materializes in his entirety, then sticks his hand back into the gate, after having it come out. The gate has a 'no hand cut off' safety mechanism which prevents the gate from hacking off his hand by shutting down (barring 38 minutes). Why they didn't just start sending a radio signal back through the gate is beyond me.

Now, please do point out a real case of an object being on both sides of the stargate at the same time.

Ugly Pig
August 3rd, 2004, 04:03 AM
In SoG, you see O'Neill run through the gate in his entirety. He then presumably materializes in his entirety, then sticks his hand back into the gate, after having it come out.
I don't think he stuck his hand back in. He just didn't exit completely by not pulling his hand out in the first place. But you're right, though - he did go through the gate completely and was not on both sides at the same time.

ShadowMaat
August 3rd, 2004, 04:30 AM
In SoG, you see O'Neill run through the gate in his entirety. He then presumably materializes in his entirety, then sticks his hand back into the gate, after having it come out.
*snip*
Now, please do point out a real case of an object being on both sides of the stargate at the same time.
Maybe you should be sure of your facts before you go around being condescending to others. As has already been discussed in this thread, O'Neill did NOT emerge entirely and "stick his hand back into the gate".

Tok'Ra Hostess
August 3rd, 2004, 05:26 AM
Now, please do point out a real case of an object being on both sides of the stargate at the same time.

There are inconsistencies when it comes to the gate, no doubt about it. In the Movie, Jackson sticks his head into the event horizon, pauses for a look-see, and then, with his body still not fully inside the wormhole, his face gets vacummed away. :)

In POV the last Jaffa to run thru the gate is still inside the wormhole when the gate event horizon shuts down, cutting off the end of his staff weapon. What happened to him?

As to SoG, I can't say for sure whether or not Jack exited the wormhole entirely, but since others came barreling through the gate right after him, wouldn't he be taking an awful chance that someone would re-materialize around his hand? Therefore, I think he must have exited, then stood to the side and returned his hand into the event horizon which had not yet shut down because it was ferrying other bodies toward the SGC.

I put them down to Hollywood moments: looks good on camera. :p

Ugly Pig
August 3rd, 2004, 05:33 AM
As to SoG, I can't say for sure whether or not Jack exited the wormhole entirely, but since others came barreling through the gate right after him, wouldn't he be taking an awful chance that someone would re-materialize around his hand?
Maybe, but I'm thinking that with all the safety features the Ancients put into the stargates there shouldn't be much to worry about. If someone entered the gate in such a way that they'd rematerialize where Jack was holding his hand, I think that maybe the gate would wait to rematerialize them until he removed it.

Keen
August 3rd, 2004, 08:43 AM
As has already been discussed in this thread, O'Neill did NOT emerge entirely and "stick his hand back into the gate".Really? I didn't see any proof of this either way when I saw the relevant bit of the episode last night. You'll notice I used the word presumably to separate onscreen proof with speculation.

edit: After having my mind thinking about it for a minute, what you believe happened was impossible. Jack jogged through the gate. I.e. his hands were infront of his chest. The stargate would have rematerialized him like that
in the SGC, so he must have then stuck his hand back in before the gate shut off.

Keen
August 3rd, 2004, 08:45 AM
Maybe, but I'm thinking that with all the safety features the Ancients put into the stargates there shouldn't be much to worry about. If someone entered the gate in such a way that they'd rematerialize where Jack was holding his hand, I think that maybe the gate would wait to rematerialize them until he removed it.This was related to a problem I had as I watched 38 minutes. They made it seem like people could just keep going into the EH, and stay there in the pattern buffer. They never deal with how the heck the stargate is going to rematerialize the 5 people that they've stuck into the small space of the forward compartment. Ick. :S

puddlejumper747
August 3rd, 2004, 08:48 AM
Maybe, but I'm thinking that with all the safety features the Ancients put into the stargates there shouldn't be much to worry about. If someone entered the gate in such a way that they'd rematerialize where Jack was holding his hand, I think that maybe the gate would wait to rematerialize them until he removed it.
The incoming object should simply push his hand out of the way. No problem. :)
>I still like my "threshold theory" in the Atlantis thread Matter through an event horizon *Spoilers for 38 Minutes and 100 Days* pgs.2-3

DJFavorite
August 3rd, 2004, 09:14 AM
Is it a mistake to compare SG-1 with Atlantis when it comes to Stargate technology? I mean the gates are different. Version 2 in Atlantis may work totally differently than the gates in our galaxy. Perhaps some of the assumptions (facts from our galaxy gates) that McKay is making aren't true in Atlantis.

VirtualCLD
August 3rd, 2004, 09:18 AM
But wormhole physics is wormhole physics. True the gates are a little different and maybe they have some different features, but I think that with most things we learned about a stargate in SG-1, can be applied to Atlantis.

DJFavorite
August 3rd, 2004, 09:48 AM
But wormhole physics is wormhole physics. True the gates are a little different and maybe they have some different features, but I think that with most things we learned about a stargate in SG-1, can be applied to Atlantis.
I'm thinking in terms of how the gates store the buffered information and such.

DownFallAngel
August 3rd, 2004, 11:54 AM
I'm thinking in terms of how the gates store the buffered information and such.

Do you really want to sacrifice the only DHD we have? With a dialing computer no less.....

EDIT: 1000th POST! :D

VirtualCLD
August 3rd, 2004, 12:00 PM
What's there to sacrifice?

DownFallAngel
August 3rd, 2004, 12:01 PM
What happened last time we tried to get something out of the SG Buffers? We lost the GIZA DHD.....

VirtualCLD
August 3rd, 2004, 12:03 PM
Yeah, but what does that have to do with this?

DownFallAngel
August 3rd, 2004, 12:08 PM
Yeah, but what does that have to do with this?
If you are saying that the same Orange gate Physics apply to Blue Gates, then fine. But DJFavorite is saying soemthing about buffering information to get it out.

So if we trapped the front end of the PJ in the gate, then the gate shut off, and it didn't disintigrate, it would get stored in the buffers. There is only one way to get something out of the buffers, and thats to do that DHD to SG do-hicky. And last time, we had to sacrifce the GIZA DHD to get Teal'c out.

VirtualCLD
August 3rd, 2004, 12:36 PM
But that was b/c we hooked i up after the gate had been off for awhile. If the DHD was hooked up from the get-go then it wouldn't have overloaded. It would have recieved the buffer and re-integrated everything with no problem.

DownFallAngel
August 3rd, 2004, 12:55 PM
And we know that how?

DJFavorite
August 3rd, 2004, 01:36 PM
All I was asking was do we know the the way the gates work is the same for the Milky Way system and the Pegasus System? Do they (the gates themselves) store the data in the buffers the same way? Do they transmit the data in the same way?

CyberKnight
August 3rd, 2004, 01:39 PM
I wondered about that. But going from little bug to giant humanoid is too big a leap in logic for me to accept.
It's not really when you watch a lot of television. I once watched a show on Animal Planet that guessed at what earth would look like almost a long long long time after we are gone. They guessed that the next intelligent life would evolve from squid.

Tok'Ra Hostess
August 3rd, 2004, 01:57 PM
All I was asking was do we know the the way the gates work is the same for the Milky Way system and the Pegasus System? Do they (the gates themselves) store the data in the buffers the same way? Do they transmit the data in the same way?


I don't see why they wouldn't. If you take the example of cars, it doesn't matter what kind of fuel you use or esthetics you apply, the rules of inertia, gravity, friction and what happens to flesh when hit by a solid obect travelling at 100mph still apply. :)

Seriously, though, MacKay and his fellow egg-heads were basing all their assumptions on Milkyway galaxy Gates, and it all worked according to the "known" (to them, anyways; it all seems new to me) rules. They seem to believe, ATM, that the basic principles behind SG operation also apply to the Pegasus models.

I'd say that they are the same. Any "differences" will probably prove to be either thus-far undiscovered properties of the gate(like what happened to SG-1 in Red Sky) or actual so-called "improvements" (so-called, because it's no improvement when you're running for your life, and you expect it to do one thing and it turns around and does something else entirely. :( Of course, that can work the other way too and become a deus ex machina and save your a**.... :p )

NurseRatched
August 3rd, 2004, 01:59 PM
I'm going to interrupt the ongoing wormhole physics discussion and actually retract a couple of my previous "X-Files Medicine" comments back on page 7. I looked at the screen caps posted on Jackfic.com and saw a few details I hadn't noticed - like the paddle-shaped burns on Shep's chest as he's being dragged into the event horizon, and the monitor leads the code team placed on him (correctly placed, even!), thus making Dr. Beckett's actions more forgiveable (taking the paddles off the chest). Nice. I'm also glad to see that the expedition bought some semi-decent stethoscopes, unlike the $10 models I've seen all too frequently on SG-1, and that they actually hook up their IV pumps (yeah, it had the "disconnected, patient side" error message scrolling, but it was running.) Someone's done their homework.

However, I noticed something else - looks like the defib/monitor is one of those spiffy new ones that the cardiology department at my hospital uses - nice and compact, lightweight and multipurpose - and I looked at a couple more screen caps to make sure - including external pacemaker capability. I have no idea why, in the absence of a rhythm, they would not use that function (other than the fact that it's not as entertaining as a code.) Without that, Shep still needed CPR and in the absence of IV access, an endo tube to a) secure the airway and b) a means of delivering epinephrine (a few code drugs can be given down the tube). All the hand-ventilation in the world would not have done much good without some means of actually circulating blood (chest compressions or pacing). My, Shep looked nice and pink. A few more "Scully demerits" there.

All things considered, I still liked the episode a LOT. I despise bugs, and FABio freaked me out.

IWantToBelieve
August 3rd, 2004, 03:13 PM
So I get the impression a lot of you feel events from this episode will return down the road? I had just the opposite. You know how they do episodes and introduce something that seems important, but never return to it again. I think it'd be cool if there were more to this and we find out later.

DownFallAngel
August 3rd, 2004, 03:23 PM
So I get the impression a lot of you feel events from this episode will return down the road? I had just the opposite. You know how they do episodes and introduce something that seems important, but never return to it again. I think it'd be cool if there were more to this and we find out later.


Almost like Heliopilis..... :(

Ugly Pig
August 3rd, 2004, 03:30 PM
Almost like Heliopilis..... :(
That plot thread was revisited. True, we haven't returned to that planet but we found out who the aliens were who had been there, and have had much contact with some of them.

SierraGulfNiner1
August 3rd, 2004, 03:45 PM
Okay, I really liked this episode. My favorite of the SGA episodes yet (then again there's been what, FOUR of them?:) ) My thoughts on the characters:

Shep: Shirt off. ;) And was SO gonna tell Weir something along the lines of "I like you" (I'd say love but well, they haven't gotten that far yet) when he thought he was going to die. Kinda sucked that he didn't have more lines except to scream out in pain during the majority of the epi.

Ford: I like his whole [email protected]$$ attitude. I know there's people that don't like him, but personally, I do. I'm just waiting for TPTB to develop his character a little more.

Weir: I like her. It's nice having her in charge. I really like the way she "talked" to Cavanaugh. Served him right. Although I have a feeling that will come back and bite her in the butt.

McKay: Such a funny funny character. He's got some great sarcasm, and I like him. Not much more to say about that.

Beckett: I wish he was in more scenes. He is great. :)

Anyways...

...becuase of that i'm starting John/Elizabeth shippper!!! who's with me?!!

Newbie, I'm with you! John/Elizabeth shipper right here. :D

DownFallAngel
August 3rd, 2004, 04:19 PM
That plot thread was revisited. True, we haven't returned to that planet but we found out who the aliens were who had been there, and have had much contact with some of them.


I think everyone agrees, we need to get the tablets and the book?

Also....we don't even know if Hathor is dead....

ShadowMaat
August 3rd, 2004, 04:20 PM
Hathor isn't dead, she's just cooling her heels until the time is right for her return. :D

DownFallAngel
August 3rd, 2004, 04:23 PM
Hathor isn't dead, she's just cooling her heels until the time is right for her return. :D


I truthfully don't think she is dead. She has come back once or twice and boned us.

LoneStar1836
August 4th, 2004, 09:15 AM
De-lurking here and responding to LoneStar's good catch...

I am in the medical profession, and I'm a tad dismayed to see that Dr. Beckett, Lord love him, apparently graduated from the same medical school as Dr. Dana Scully.

First up, it's actually quite hard to induce a heart-stopping shock with a defibrillator, contrary to widespread belief. (You've literally got to time the shock so it hits right on the "R" wave of the cardiac cycle...chances of doing that on the first zap are very slim.)

{snip}

Yup, an AED would have made more sense to bring along rather than a "real" defibrillator unit. They're pretty much idiot-proof, they're lighter, and they're cheaper...they just aren't as impressive.

LoneStar's right, when Beckett's attempting to resuscitate Shep all the defibrillation in the world would not have been effective as he was in asystole (absence of electrical activity). What he needed was CPR and the appropriate drugs...{snip}


Thanks for backing me up there. When I was watching that, I was like okay, I think he needs CPR there if you really want him to live.

I didn't think it was that easy to kill somebody by shocking them. Thanks for clarifying that.

Still enjoyed the episode btw. :D Next week's looks good. Can't wait.

{EDIT}

If I understand you right -- and I've got the right
scene -- the Jumper went slide forward a little because McKay was
distracted by events and accidently touched something wrong on the
panel.

We taped both SG1 and Atlantis because I had to work. If you look
closely, there's a cut to McKay watching events, a little flash on
his panel, and then a panicky look on McKay's face. We had to rewind
it twice to make sure we saw it right. That little flash probably
caused the engines to fire a little, which cause the breach in the
compartment doors.

Thanks for correcting me there. I finally got a chance to go back and watch it a second time. It happened so fast and then I guess I missed McKay’s dialogue explaining why they moved. I still think they should have been trying to rock the PJ to get it unstuck. Laws of physics be damned. :p Hey, it might have worked. I’m ignoring McKay’s laws of physics comment when Ford ran at the door. Lalalala. I can’t hear you. Equal and opposite reaction what? And ignoring the fact that the PJ had lost all its inertia. :D

Ugly Pig
August 4th, 2004, 11:39 AM
I truthfully don't think she is dead. She has come back once or twice and boned us.
She's been back once. Then Jack killed her. As far as the series is concerned, she's a goner. You don't have to believe she's dead, but you better believe TPTB won't bring her back (if only because it is a well documented fact that they hate the character).

Liv
August 4th, 2004, 11:41 AM
but you better believe TPTB won't bring her back

And thank heavens for that!

ShadowMaat
August 4th, 2004, 12:04 PM
It's well documented? I didn't know that. I know we won't see her again, but it's still fun to imagine. That second time she showed quite an elaborate level of sneakiness...

Although if they were to bring back any dead god, I'd want it to be Nirrti. Of course, with Jonas as good as dead and gone forever, there wouldn't be much point in her return. *sigh*

I wonder if they'll ever get into any mythologies on Atlantis...

Ugly Pig
August 4th, 2004, 12:10 PM
It's well documented? I didn't know that.
Unfortunately, I can't remember where I read that to save my life. But I know I've read it several places. One thing I distinctly remember is that it was said that RDA hated the character and that when he says "I was so hoping never to see you again" in the episode he actually meant it. It was also said that the only reason they even brought her back was that she was the only Goa'uld they could logically fit into that particular story.

ShadowMaat
August 4th, 2004, 12:11 PM
One thing I distinctly remember is that it was said that RDA hated the character and that when he says "I was so hoping never to see you again" in the episode he actually meant it.
That explains a lot, actually. I think I'll refrain from further comment.

rihannsu
August 4th, 2004, 01:23 PM
Okay, stupid question time. I can't find the answer anywhere else on the forum, so I'm about to burst.

I noticed that neither Ford nor Mc Kay had their (country of origin) flag patches on their arms. When I watch Atlantis for the 4- 1,000 time, I just FF to the Mc Kay scenes (what can I say- I'm obsessed) and when I see a Maple Leaf, I hit play. But I noticed a blank spot on his arm and later on Ford.

Anybody got any idea why the patches were gone? :S

Newbie
August 4th, 2004, 01:24 PM
didn't they take their jackets off?

rihannsu
August 4th, 2004, 01:41 PM
Yeah, at one point they did. But in the beginning of the episode, they're both standing there with the jackets on and no flag patches. I wondered if it had something to do with the mission they were on. :S

VirtualCLD
August 4th, 2004, 01:43 PM
I could have sworn I saw McKay with a flag patch in Rising, now I need to go back and check.

ShadowMaat
August 4th, 2004, 02:05 PM
Oh, McKay definitely wears the flag patch MOST of the time. And I'd swear I saw it at some point in 38M, but I think what rihannsu is saying is that at one point in the ep, McKay and Ford were NOT wearing their country patches...

rihannsu
August 4th, 2004, 02:11 PM
Oh, McKay definitely wears the flag patch MOST of the time. And I'd swear I saw it at some point in 38M, but I think what rihannsu is saying is that at one point in the ep, McKay and Ford were NOT wearing their country patches...


Yep, that's it. I never saw them on their jackets.

Just had a thought, though (ouch!!) are those new jackets we've seen for the first time and wardrobe just didnt' have time to sew anything on them?

NurseRatched
August 4th, 2004, 02:27 PM
Looks like it's a velcro-type "attach flag/patch here" thingy - which I guess would make sense if the uniform-wearer wished to remove their nice, bright, obvious-to-enemies flags/patches while out on a mission...for "Hide and Seek" (an Atlantis-based episode) Sheppard, Ford and Stackhouse (?) wore their U.S. flags and "Atlantis" patches.

Notice also that the military are no longer wearing their rank (the only ones in "Rising" doing so were the Marines - and the shiny insignia (worn only on the dress uniforms) worn on the MARPATs too - wrong. I have no clue why they're no longer wearing their rank.

ShadowMaat
August 4th, 2004, 02:37 PM
Maybe it's a "covert op" thing... although why details like that should matter on an alien planet in an alien galaxy are beyond me. Force of habit, I guess. ;)

rihannsu
August 4th, 2004, 03:22 PM
Makes sense. And from experience, I can tell you there ain't nothing "covert" about that bright Maple Leaf. I can see Mr. Cutie in a split second with that thing. :P

IWantToBelieve
August 4th, 2004, 07:50 PM
Most military uniforms have the velcro for country insignia and rank. When going into potentially enemy territory they remove identifying patches. I noticed the lack of patches also. I think they've got some pretty good military advising going on because they seem to get most things right, including this little bit.

Most of the goofs we see are label insignia on wrong, in the eps. Hathor, Fraiser I think it was, had her Captains bars on sideways.

chiefchucky
August 5th, 2004, 03:55 PM
I enjoyed 38 minutes and I agree with you ugly pig that when I first saw the FAB I though must be a newborn wraith.

shinyredpants
August 5th, 2004, 07:46 PM
this ep was awesome >D

Gabriel
August 8th, 2004, 09:33 AM
this ep was awesome >D

I surely wouldn't say awesome. Like the last few a bit dissapointing. Did someone else laugh, when the ship hit the stargate at the beginning. It slowly scratched it, but "boom" and they all passed out... ;)

Yu Huang Shang Ti
August 10th, 2004, 01:30 AM
I don't buy that the bug is a direct relative of the Wraith -- besides the usual humanoid evolution problems, how do its pincers/mandibles move from the head to the Wraith's hands? -- but it did give me another idea. Perhaps the Wraith weren't always life-suckers like they are now, but genetically modified themselves with DNA from that bug in order to gain immortality? That could explain why the whole race laid dormant even though they're great enough in number to colonize/control a significant area of the Pegasus galaxy. They were able to add the bug's regenerative abilities to themselves but couldn't separate that from the need to feed on lifeforce, so they had to go into mass hibernation in order to keep from starving to death.

This is, of course, entirely speculative, but it'd sure be a lot more interesting than the Wraith just naturally evolving into what they are now. Even the Goa'uld didn't build their empire in a vacuum!

2BAM
August 25th, 2004, 01:04 AM
That reminds me. Cheers to whoever called TPTB looking for excuses to remove Shep's shirt! Spot-on on that one! ;)

Only problem with Ford I had was his hesitation on using the paddles on Shep. Hello! Don't look for permission, just DO IT already! Sheesh.

I think Weir's leadership skills in general need a LOT of improving. She still rubs me the wrong way. I still don't like her.
I think that Wier is a Doctor and not used to exercising her leadership skills yet. She appears to be a very strong woman and, a woman with a past of tech. experience behind her. In my opinion, she will become stronger as she is forced to face more challenges, after all she is new in this city. She is testing the waters as would anyone. She is the correct choice for command, all the way.

Crazedwraith
November 2nd, 2004, 02:11 PM
good episode. Like Ford's bravery liekd everything really, although reading the discriptino i expected to get stuch in the wormhole itself rather than the stargate. Also i feel teyla looks better in her native clother rather than an SGC jumpsuit and tactical vest they make her look pudgy

shelsfc
November 2nd, 2004, 02:25 PM
That was good.

Was it the same director who did CotG?
*checks GW*
It was....cool.

Weir & Sheppard had a couple of good "in command" moments

The cheek of that scientist with the plait who's name escapes me! I was half expecting Weir to slap him....:rolleyes:

I have to admit it, I am falling into the Sheppard/Teyla ship trap. I'm trying really hard not to, but I can't help it.... Although, right at the end there was a hint of potential for Sheppard/Weir, which I would never have thought of only my sister said "Oh are they supposed to be the new Sam & Jack?" Hmm...

They're starting to call each other by their first names, that's nice.....I think it will be a while before I get used to saying John instead of Sheppard or Elizabeth instead of Weir etc. I think I'm getting used to 'Rodney' though....

Sy~
November 2nd, 2004, 03:55 PM
Im glad most of you liked the ep. I thought it had some Ok parts to it. The insect was a tad bit lame though. I was hoping they would CGI it, make it look less a plastic model and more a real life sucking insect.

A couple of interesting plot developments. First time we have seen the team together. I thought though that the story lost momentum part way through and diddnt quite recover.

Sy~

CultTVGirl
November 3rd, 2004, 02:32 AM
Loved this episode! Rodney was hilarious (as always), Ford got to do a lot more (I'm liking him more each episode) and Dr Weir got to kick some butt.

Go Weir! Go Weir! :D

I'm a huge Dr Weir fan now. Oh, and is it just me, or does Dr Beckett just get sexier every episode?

But I think there are a few people who, like Weir suggested, need to be tossed through the Stargate. Like that scientist guy with the long hair (ugh - so rude to Weir!) and the guy with the lame British accent. They so need to be voted off the island. ;)

Lord Zedd
November 3rd, 2004, 02:45 AM
I'm a huge Dr Weir fan now. Oh, and is it just me, or does Dr Beckett just get sexier every episode? it is just you :p kidding he ;)


But I think there are a few people who, like Weir suggested, need to be tossed through the Stargate. Like that scientist guy with the long hair (ugh - so rude to Weir!) and the guy with the lame British accent. They so need to be voted off the island. ;)
Yeah that guys was such a jerk.Thinking about his own ass.I think Weir said it well against the bloody idiot

samjack4ever
November 3rd, 2004, 03:12 AM
This might have been talked abut before but there is over 200 messages in this thread now... :S

While this ep was a good one and I really enjoyed it I think there was a huge plot hole...

It is my understanding - not that that's worth much - that so long as something is going through the gate then the wormhole will stay open... In Redemption Sam states

"This doesn't make any sense. In order to keep a wormhole open, you have to send something through...a radio signal, anything. We're getting...nothing."

So as long as the sent a radio transmission through the gate wouldn't have shut down in 38 minutes...

Major Clanger
November 3rd, 2004, 03:41 AM
Fabbo ep, some very nice bonding moments. McKay is absolutely brilliant, I have liked him since he first showed up in Stargate. He appears to be all self self self but in fact he has a very quick grasp of things (and he is used to being way ahead of the pack in the brain department, which he shows, but not too insufferably) and he is getting more used to being a team-member than he has been in the past.

<letch>And of course, all that Shepherd dying stuff.... mmmmmmm lovely.</letch>

But there was one thing which bugged me beyond all bugginess. What is it with Weir???
She's supposed to be this brilliant diplomat. Yeah, right - I'll go along with that up to a point. She has absolutely no skill at leading anything. Zip. Nada. Nothing.

Sure, EgoGuy was a bain in the butt - but there is always at least one person like that in a big group. He's a scientist, a senior scientist from what I could gather, he's probably not a really good team-player, and he's not military (therefore he hasn't had the team thing drummed into him repeatedly). Weir totally lost his respect, and bawled him out in front of other people.

Brilliant? nope
Leadership? nope
Diplomatic? nope

And for anyone thinking that that is how the military deal with stuff... to a certain extent as a last resort. But contrary to popular belief, the leaders have to have the respect of their subordinates - Weir has neither earned that, shown leadership skills or anything else that would lead me, if I were in the position of having to do so, to appoint her as leader of anything other than a Brownie pack. Gruesome #2 has more people skills than she does, and that's saying something.

Oh and while I'm on it... Dr.Brilliant-Weir didn't know about the 38 minutes???? I don't buy that for a second. Not one nanosecond. Hasn't the woman been briefed????? And what's with her uniform? The character doesn't do anything for me other than annoy. But I'll see how it goes, because the rest of the characters are fab, and the idea of Atlantis is fab, and it has me excited in a way that Stargate hasn't since the end of the 5th season.

Beckett was excellent. He was thinking on his feet, and only disappointed me when he didn't insist that they first try the chocolate on the bug.

Ford is still going to have to do a bit of work to grow on me, but Teyla showed some initiative which was good, and MacKay... what can I say? He is going to be one of my all-time favourite characters in anything.

Ego Guy was good, I loved the way he turned into a seething mass of resentment. and the Czech guy was way cool. Loved his reply to Weir!

Ah Weir... don't let me get started...

Right, now I'm off to watch it again. I'm intrigued about the size of the FAB (cool name) and the little spidery web it wove. That's why I'm watching. Nothing at all to do with Shepherd and a bare chest...

sshspooky
November 3rd, 2004, 07:54 AM
This might have been talked abut before but there is over 200 messages in this thread now... :S

While this ep was a good one and I really enjoyed it I think there was a huge plot hole...

It is my understanding - not that that's worth much - that so long as something is going through the gate then the wormhole will stay open... In Redemption Sam states

"This doesn't make any sense. In order to keep a wormhole open, you have to send something through...a radio signal, anything. We're getting...nothing."

So as long as the sent a radio transmission through the gate wouldn't have shut down in 38 minutes...
She was referring to normally. since there was matter in the wormhole it won't shut down, however the stargate is only able to keep a wormhole open for 38 minutes. after this time the gate will shut down no matter what.

redemption is an exception as Anubis was using an ancient device that was sending energy through the gate, which not only caused the wormhole to stay open, but turned the earth gate in to a massive explosive.

Major Fischer
November 3rd, 2004, 08:02 AM
MC,

I am a Weir fan and I'll grant you they didn't write her well in this episode. It's the second one in production and my feeling is generally that the writers took a while to get a real feel for writing the character. I think she didn't start to really make sense to the potential of what she could be till Home.

Suspicion is also problematic.

Major Clanger
November 3rd, 2004, 08:27 AM
Oh man!
I really hate this type of thing... I'll give her a chance (because I'll trust a fellow Major) but....

I just want one, ONE, female character not to act like a man.
And I want just one military character who is written properly (like Col Sumner, I loved him to death)

OTOH: have I mentioned how absolutely fab and near perfect MacKay is? Especially in this ep?

I just think that since they made such a big deal about Weir being this fantastically brilliant diplomat, that it's not too much to ask that she actually behaves like one and not the "it's my ball and you can't play with it" reaction she gave last night.

And before anyone thinks I'm Weir bashing for the sake of it: I feel strongly about this because she could be a really really good character. If she keeps in character.

*goes for a drink of tea*

Crazedwraith
November 3rd, 2004, 08:31 AM
This might have been talked abut before but there is over 200 messages in this thread now... :S

While this ep was a good one and I really enjoyed it I think there was a huge plot hole...

It is my understanding - not that that's worth much - that so long as something is going through the gate then the wormhole will stay open... In Redemption Sam states

"This doesn't make any sense. In order to keep a wormhole open, you have to send something through...a radio signal, anything. We're getting...nothing."

So as long as the sent a radio transmission through the gate wouldn't have shut down in 38 minutes...
Thats only to keep it open up to the 38 minute barrier. You need more energy to keep it open ala watergate.

McKay did say theres only one way it'll keep open for more than 38 minutes was through relativistic effects ala "A Matter of time" where the black hole gravity meant the thirty eight minutes off world was in fact days on earth.

However McKay seems to have forgotten the watergate incident. To keep a gate open for more than 38 minutes you need something going through it ala a radio signiture (supplied by the russian nuclear probe) and energy to keep the wormholee running (supplied by the living water).

Matt G
November 3rd, 2004, 09:21 AM
Generally decent ep though Atlantis hasn't set off any fireworks yet.

1. McKay seems to be half way between the ar$e he was in SG1 and a pretty cool character!

2. Ford shoulder barging the bulkhead to move the ship was what I'd probably do instinctivly - OK so McKay would remind me about the inertia - not everyone's got a psyics doctorate!

3. The FIB really just felt like a B-plot device - I'll be surprised if we see it again!

Major Fischer
November 3rd, 2004, 09:25 AM
And before anyone thinks I'm Weir bashing for the sake of it: I feel strongly about this because she could be a really really good character. If she keeps in character.

Far be it, you are making very valid arguments, and Shadow made some of the same ones when this episode first aired in the states.

The best thing I can equate it to is the occasional problems they seemed to have writing Sam in the first season. It seems like until someone puts their foot down there is a tendency to either:

A) Write women like men
B) Write women like some sort of sterotype of a 'feminist'
C) Write women like soft man chasing wussies.

Unfortunately the character of Dr. Weir isn't served really well by any of those things. I think 38 Minutes and HIde and Seek are the worst examples of bad writing for Weir.

At some point, and I'm not sure where, I think they gave her a bit of a sarcastic sense of humor later in the season and it made her more likeable for me.

Major Clanger
November 3rd, 2004, 09:33 AM
oh, sarcastic sense of humour is something I can relate to.

for some reason.

I'll look forward to that.

Crazedwraith
November 3rd, 2004, 10:46 AM
3. The FIB really just felt like a B-plot device - I'll be surprised if we see it again!
the what? FIB?? HUH?????

Major Clanger
November 3rd, 2004, 11:58 AM
could that possibly be a typo for the FAB?

Elite Anubis Guard
November 3rd, 2004, 12:28 PM
i liked this episode, was an interesting character development episode, aswell as an interesting stargate episode anyway.

brings me to another question, the ramp in sg1-how come that stays if the wormhole forms like over it?!

lionel_pendergast_rocks
November 3rd, 2004, 06:34 PM
yes, liked this one too. it was a good catch that comes with the ships being albe to fly through a gate. i dont get why whats already past the event horizon doesn't just travel to the other side of the gate after the 38 minutes are up.

Anubis
November 4th, 2004, 12:17 AM
A decent episode indeed. Loved all the comedy from Rodney (as always), Weir was great, Teyla had some on-screen action at last and Ford also got some words in. :)


Sheppard done good here, the focus was based on him but also managed to focus on many other individuals too. There were some main good highlights of the episode.


I just wondered why that Wraith left Sheppard since he could have still got some life from him. ;)


And the massive hole where the mothership was. That was BIG. I wonder when we see this again...

CultTVGirl
November 4th, 2004, 01:43 AM
OTOH: have I mentioned how absolutely fab and near perfect MacKay is? Especially in this ep?

Near perfect? What do you mean 'near' perfect? He is perfect! :D

Major Clanger
November 4th, 2004, 02:11 AM
I stand corrected, ma'am!

Crazedwraith
November 4th, 2004, 09:30 AM
could that possibly be a typo for the FAB?
That wou;ld help me morre if i knew what FAB was?

Elite Anubis Guard
November 4th, 2004, 09:45 AM
its the thing the thunderbirds say ;)

watcher652
November 5th, 2004, 01:46 AM
That wou;ld help me morre if i knew what FAB was?Well, I was reading it as "effing Alien Bug" but I could be wrong.

Major Clanger
November 5th, 2004, 02:06 AM
That wou;ld help me morre if i knew what FAB was?
It's what Ford told Weir had attached itself to Shephard's neck:

a Funky Alien Bug

watcher652
November 5th, 2004, 05:21 PM
It's what Ford told Weir had attached itself to Shephard's neck:

a Funky Alien Bug
Ha, that's right, how could I have forgotten? From the man who shouldn't name anything.

Madeleine
November 5th, 2004, 10:44 PM
I've for a long long time had a hair-rant in me, although it has never applied to Stargate before. But here goes:

Has no one told Teyla about the magical invention known as the hair-bobble? the elastic band? the bar-clip? SCISSORS?

When you're running about trying to escape from wraith you don't want thousands of fillaments close to your face with the potential to get blown in front of your eyes, do you? If you're trying to assist in a life-or-death medical whatnot you don't want hair dangling into wounds or within grabbing distance of whatever appendages that a FAB migh turn out to have.

Naquadah-enhanced hairgel may be warm and tough, but no way is it a substitute for a decent plait.

LEARN ABOUT PONY-TAILS.

Major Clanger
November 6th, 2004, 01:55 AM
I've for a long long time had a hair-rant in me, although it has never applied to Stargate before. But here goes:

...

LEARN ABOUT PONY-TAILS.
well, there is a reason why women (and men, come to that) in the Military have to conform to hair regs.

Of course, if she tucked it up in a nice helmet, she'd have even more protection....

in fact, if Shephard had been wearing a helmet, maybe the bug might not have been able to get him (and we'd have been deprived not only an angsty ep but also the sight of his hair...)

SeaBee
November 7th, 2004, 06:35 AM
So far so good.

4th episode, and I have yet to find anything to dislike about atlantis.

This was an excellent ep., although the McKay whining was beginning to grate a little.

CultTVGirl
November 10th, 2004, 07:16 AM
This was an excellent ep., although the McKay whining was beginning to grate a little.

But McKay saved the day!!

He's just a big damn hero, so I don't mind if he complains a little bit. :D

watcher652
November 10th, 2004, 01:41 PM
This was an excellent ep., although the McKay whining was beginning to grate a little.
Ok, so Rodney whined. But, frankly I'd be scared out of my mind if after spending all my life in a research lab I now find myself about to die in the cold vacuum of space. And if I thought it was all up to me to figure out a way to save not only myself, but the lives of 5 other people. That idea is rather overwhelming. No wonder McKay needed a little prodding from Ford to get back to work.

McKay is the only "non-warrior" on the team. He's bound to look a little deficient in the bravery department, at least for now. He just needs more practice. But he always comes thru. It just takes him a little longer to gather up his courage.

WraithWarrior
November 15th, 2004, 07:23 AM
Another good episode (just hope they keep up the good work). Sheppard really is funny.

Purpleyin
December 31st, 2004, 09:03 AM
Unfortunately the character of Dr. Weir isn't served really well by any of those things. I think 38 Minutes and HIde and Seek are the worst examples of bad writing for Weir.

At some point, and I'm not sure where, I think they gave her a bit of a sarcastic sense of humor later in the season and it made her more likeable for me.

Maybe all that time with McKay rubs off on her, she certainly seems to on him - less doom and gloom attitude for him since those epsiodes as well.

Purpleyin
December 31st, 2004, 09:34 AM
Has anyone tried tranlating the bits and bob of anciet seen in the episode?
i know other things have been like the stairs in the gate room but here there were several pj and console with ancient writing. like the side of the unit Zelenka was working on, seemed to either have pattern or ancient on it and the blue lit up bits at later scene when Ford was pulling the thing to release hatch.
Just curious to what they say and wondered if anyones found out already.

Luke80a
February 26th, 2005, 12:34 PM
I know, that's exactly what he was doing, but according to the science of this Atlantis episode he shouldn't have rematerialized on the SGC side of the Stargate until ALL of his matter was through, in one big clump.

O'Neill did not put his hand back into the event horizon after he came through, because that would have destroyed his hand.
Instead, he walked slowly through, and did not let his hand fully rematerialise at the SGC. With this happening, it would not be until 38 minutes were up, that the wormhole would have closed, but the Asgard were beaming up the base, and the rogue NID had no time to wait 38 minutes.

PugGate
March 7th, 2005, 07:56 PM
Flash-back episodes drive me crazy. And this episode hardly had any action in it

SmartFox
March 7th, 2005, 10:12 PM
O'Neill did not put his hand back into the event horizon after he came through, because that would have destroyed his hand.
Instead, he walked slowly through, and did not let his hand fully rematerialise at the SGC. With this happening, it would not be until 38 minutes were up, that the wormhole would have closed, but the Asgard were beaming up the base, and the rogue NID had no time to wait 38 minutes.


Actually it wouldn't have destroyed his hand. On many eps they show that you can stick any body part through an incoming wormhole and nothing happen until you go all the way through. Its an Ancient fail safe device most likely. Jack's hand wouldn't be cut off until the wormhole disengaged.

DarkBlastoise
April 4th, 2005, 08:12 PM
I can't wait for the episode to be aired. It will appear on my screen on Thursday... Can't wait...

AlphaBlu
April 5th, 2005, 01:16 AM
I can't wait for 38 Mins either. Sure, I've seen it like 3 times already, but it's a Brad Wright episode, and they're always gold. Plus it has lots of McKay and even Zelenka in it (his first Atlantis ep!).

BYE

Shep'sSocks
April 5th, 2005, 01:24 AM
38 Minutes is my favourite episode. It's just teeters on the verge of angsty fan fiction.

david2708
April 7th, 2005, 07:10 AM
Ok, so Rodney whined. But, frankly I'd be scared out of my mind if after spending all my life in a research lab I now find myself about to die in the cold vacuum of space. And if I thought it was all up to me to figure out a way to save not only myself, but the lives of 5 other people. That idea is rather overwhelming. No wonder McKay needed a little prodding from Ford to get back to work.

McKay is the only "non-warrior" on the team. He's bound to look a little deficient in the bravery department, at least for now. He just needs more practice. But he always comes thru. It just takes him a little longer to gather up his courage.

Have to agree with the poster saying that McKay is rather grating.
I'm finding him rather tiresome and I've only now seen 4 eps. I hope he aint like it for the rest of the season.
Scifi shows now seem to always require the comic relief/ perpetually afraid/whiney character- that first appeared with the Dr Smith Character in Lost In Space.
Smith, however, was GOLD :) , Makay, on the other hand, is pure lead. :eek:
The bug on Sheppard reminded me of the big bug which attatched itself to Belanna in the Star Trek Voyager ep .

Shep'sSocks
April 7th, 2005, 08:13 AM
McKay is wonderful.

"Thanks for calling!"

Immy
April 14th, 2005, 01:12 AM
I totaly agree SS Mckay ROCKS! :D

Shep'sSocks
April 14th, 2005, 02:31 AM
Looking forward to Suspicion tonight, Imo.

McKay to Bates: You want me to go through her stuff?

Immy
April 14th, 2005, 03:10 AM
Looking forward to Suspicion tonight, Imo.

Yep only 2 1/2 hours to go :D

Shep'sSocks
April 14th, 2005, 05:01 AM
Half an hour to go!

watcher652
April 14th, 2005, 05:59 PM
Have to agree with the poster saying that McKay is rather grating.
I'm finding him rather tiresome and I've only now seen 4 eps. I hope he aint like it for the rest of the season.
Scifi shows now seem to always require the comic relief/ perpetually afraid/whiney character- that first appeared with the Dr Smith Character in Lost In Space.
Smith, however, was GOLD :) , Makay, on the other hand, is pure lead. :eek:
The bug on Sheppard reminded me of the big bug which attatched itself to Belanna in the Star Trek Voyager ep .Wow, I certainly wouldn't measure up to your standards. I think I may have a tendency to whine when confronted by certain death myself. Maybe even cower in a corner since I probably don't have any skills that would help out.

Where would be the dramatic growth if everyone started out perfect? That's what I like about McKay. He's led a protected life in his lab, but you know he's read every mission report that Samantha Carter filed. He knew the dangers any expedition would face in the unknown Pegasus Galaxy. Yet, he was never so excited in his life to go.

Sure, he's going to whine and complain. It's his nature. IDIC and all that. But so far, he's come through. He's just isn't used to being in life and death situations. You can read up on every mission report and imagine how you would react, but until you are actually in the situation, you'll never really know what you'd do.

After some practice, McKay will learn how to react to these new experiences and will learn to anticipate how to behave. He is a genius, you know. He'll be a fast learner.

I hope he never loses his unique view on life, his snarky remarks, his willingness to challenge what he believes is wrong, and his passion for finding answers and the truth. It's what endears the character to some of us watching Atlantis.

I don't want another perfect soldier, taking each crisis as if it were just another day, been there, done that 3 years ago. I want McKay and all his faults, the bits of humanity that make him real.

twiggy
April 19th, 2005, 06:44 PM
o, i loved this ep, it was intense, but cool.

SGalisa
April 24th, 2005, 07:34 PM
Have to agree with the poster saying that McKay is rather grating.
...Makay, on the other hand, is pure lead. :eek:
The bug on Sheppard reminded me of the big bug which attatched itself to Belanna in the Star Trek Voyager ep .Similar to what watcher652 wrote, I disagree with the *leaden* McKay characterization...

I vaguely remember Belanna having a bug incident (it's been a long time since I've seen Voyager). ...but considering how many years Hollywood and TV, and storywriting in general has existed or been in business, most sci-fi stories tend to overlap sooner or later... it's usually called inspiration, and sometimes 2 minds with the same sort of thoughts if the one never saw the other. ;)

When I first began watching SG-1, I didn't care too much for machoistic McKay, until his *revealing* piano incident! That was so funny. But, you probably gotta be in Sam's shoes to truly appreciate it.

Actually, McKay is McKay and always will be... but he grows as the series expands. And he actually has his extremely likable moments... depending on what the viewer's definition of "likable" is. I no longer find McKay too grating. He's actually gotten funny at times, when he's being so *snarky*. Anyway... I've gotten wayyyyyyy sidetracked here.
--------
re: the episode, 38 Minutes itself...
At least some people here get to actually see "38 Minutes".

The Sci-Fi channel decided to drop it this round of repeats (in the USA). I don't understand their logic behind it, because I (and many other folks) thought the "38 Minutes" story is critical to the Atlantis storyline. There is such a huge build up in "Rising" about Sheppard unwittingly walking into a whole new reality (to him anyway...) and thus becoming extremely vital to SG:A's purpose; and then meeting up with a quandry of an encounter in "38 Minutes"!

And I didn't think it was a boring episode. Just extremely suspenseful. *Maddening* suspenseful to be more exact! (yikes!) It didn't need to be like James Bond or the now popularized, super-action packed Triple "xXx" movie to get its point across.

What did happen within "38 Minutes" could, however, be an effective backstory for a future SG:A episode someday. Or an alternate reality story... (just a thought) :D

Only got those gorgeous photos of a whumped Shep in the "Sheppard Appreciation" and "Whumped Shep" and anywhere else he might be threads to thrive on until the DVD's come out; or if Sci-Fi decides to change its mind and show the episode. It wasn't anywhere on the schedule, but I've seen schedules change even within a few hours before actual air times. Somehow, I don't think the Sci-Fi channel will change their existing schedule, until they hear more complaints once the appointed time comes and "38 Minutes" is not shown.

watcher652
April 26th, 2005, 02:06 PM
The trouble with dropping any episode from the repeat list is that people who missed the show from the very beginning are missing vital information to the whole season story line. Not to give anything away for a future episode, but the bug is not a throw away alien life form.

This episode had a lot of good moments for Ford. Probably the most face time for him in any season 1 episode. You'd miss the introduction of Dr. Radek Zelenka (althought we are only told first name in a later episode). Dr. Kavanagh is also introduced. Both Sheppard and McKay have further character development. You miss some classic quotes like "I apologize for being the only person who truly comprehends how screwed we are!" Oh, and we get to see Sheppard with his shirt open. :D

I'm sorry for the US late comers who won't get to see this excellent episode in this cycle of repeats on SciFi.

Stricken
June 1st, 2005, 03:34 AM
i liked it althouh dull in parts good episode