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Happy_Gate
April 18th, 2006, 10:12 PM
First off, I apologize if this question has been asked and answered before. I ran a search but did not find answer I was looking for.

My question is
Was the time war and its conclusion (which left the doctor as last of his kind) ever shown or described in the classic series or movie(s)?

If it was, could anyone be kind enough to recap what did happen?

Thanks.

Reefgirl
April 18th, 2006, 11:26 PM
First off, I apologize if this question has been asked and answered before. I ran a search but did not find answer I was looking for.

My question is
Was the time war and its conclusion (which left the doctor as last of his kind) ever shown or described in the classic series or movie(s)?

If it was, could anyone be kind enough to recap what did happen?

Thanks.
The time war was never mentioned in the classic series and it's effects have only been seen in the new series, the 9th Doctor hinted at it's causes and effects but it's never been explained fully. I think there is an 8th Doctor book which leads up to the start of it but I couldn't tell you it's name

The Signal
April 19th, 2006, 02:39 AM
the Time War was not a part of the classic series, but it is possible to put the pieces together. The cause dates back to Genesis of The Daleks, when the fourth Doctor went back to stop their creation. It was this that led to the conflict between the two races, it may be that there were other paticipants, but we have no idea. We dont know which races were involved, but we do know that it destroyed many worlds including the Nesteen Consiousness's(sp?) protein worlds on which it fed, and possibly the ghelf's world (though they told so many lies we dont actually know what was true and what wasn't). I think it happened during the 8th Doctor's era, but again we dont know. All that we do know is that it led to the destruction of all but one of the Time Lords and their home world(The Doctor) and most of the Daleks. We also know that whatever happened to end the final battle, the Doctor caused it.

Besides that skeleton of info, we just have to wait over the next few years to figure out what went on, putting it together from whatever Russell gives us, though with this Doctor seeing a lot less torn up over the events of the war than the 9th Doctor, I think its gonna be slim picking for a short while.

yaaayoubetcha
April 19th, 2006, 06:20 AM
I would love to see a season long story of the Time War, similar to what they did with Trial of a Timelord.

It would be somewhat out of continuity if they went back and got CE/SMc to do it, or perhaps they could have a plausible reason for the DT to be the Doctor for something that happened in his past, pre current regeneration.

creed462
April 19th, 2006, 06:25 AM
It would be cool if they did it as flashback, and get Paul Magan(sp) to do the story.

Davidtourniquet
April 19th, 2006, 06:58 AM
I have a theory about the final battle, regarding what the doctor done, after seeing the parting of the ways, is it possible he used a delta wave and destroyed everything and he escaped in the tardis, just before it went off. Hence the emperor dalek saying "the coward survived".

The Signal
April 19th, 2006, 07:26 AM
Doubt it, he said the Dalek ships burned because of him, a Delta wave couldnt do that, plus I dount he would have been so eager to use that tech again after using it to kill his people, plus if he had used it back then, he would likely have refined it to only kill the Daleks. And as for him being a coward, I just dont see that, I think he did the only thing he could in the situation, otherwise he wouldnt be able to live with himself, whatever he did was a desperate last ditch effort to win the war, not an act of cowardiss.

creed462
April 19th, 2006, 07:35 AM
THe only thing the Doctor ever ran from was his own people.

Reefgirl
April 19th, 2006, 02:06 PM
I did mention this in the other thread but I read somewhere that he was ordered to destroy Galifrey by the High Council and I think Romana was the head by then

creed462
April 19th, 2006, 02:13 PM
Where did you find the infomation

Reefgirl
April 20th, 2006, 06:53 AM
Oh God I can't remember now, probably the DW site or h2g2

The Signal
April 20th, 2006, 06:57 AM
It would be cool if they did it as flashback, and get Paul Magan(sp) to do the story.
Its not going to happen as long as RTD is in charge, although he may do a multi-doctor story.

As for the whole Romana thing, though it isnt canon, yes Im pretty sure I read that too, but that was not in the Time War, that was in one of the 8th Doctor novels, which was followed by several more, so I think it is safe to say that Gallifrey was reborn before later getting destroyed once again.

creed462
April 20th, 2006, 07:33 AM
I hope to find out more.

Darkseid
April 22nd, 2006, 07:37 PM
As someone who has pieced it together from just watching the new series, and not by reading any other sites and whatnot, I have formed a bit of an opinion on the subject;

The Time War was fought during the 8th Doctor's reign. In the episode "Rose" it is implied that The Doctor was fairly newly regenerated (The scene ware The Doctor arives at Roses' place and looks into the mirror and says something to the effect, "Could have been worse....but those ears!!").

While fighting the Time War, The Doctor got an upgrade to his TARDIS consule, which is how he is able to control it better then he was in the classic series (although not 100% like he should).

It also occurs to me that it is most likly an order that came from the Time Lords to destroy everything in a last ditch effort in case the Daleks were winning. It occurs to me that the Doctor would be the wisest to make this decision versus The Master or The Rani as he would only have the best interest of The Universe at heart. Even though the decision obviously weighs pretty heavy on his mind in all the episodes, and has haunted him since.

I would still like to see a Time Lord show up just for giggles sometime this season. Not The Master or The Rani, even if it's just The Meddling Monk. This would give The Doctor hope.

Maybe this is what The Face of Boa was wanting to tell The Doctor in the first episode of the second season.......hmmmmmmmm.......

Thermonuclearboy
April 22nd, 2006, 08:24 PM
Oh the Master WILL be back, we all know this. If ANY Time Lord is going to survive to crawl out of the wreckage like a cockroach, it's him. Survival is what he does.

Darkseid
April 22nd, 2006, 08:41 PM
Oh the Master WILL be back, we all know this. If ANY Time Lord is going to survive to crawl out of the wreckage like a cockroach, it's him. Survival is what he does.


Of course The Master will be back. He usually has some type of escape plan. We should see him eventually (provided the show lasts long enough).

I still wouldn't mind see what the Meddling Monk is up to these days....

IMForeman
April 23rd, 2006, 12:09 AM
The following is the only definitively canonical information about the Time War beyond what was seen in the show. Russel T. Davies wrote this for last year's Doctor Who Annual.

"There had been a war, the Great Time War, between the Daleks and the Time Lords. There had been two Time Wars before this - the skirmish between the Halldons and the Eternals, and then the brutal slaughter of the Omnicraven Uprising - and on both occasions, the Doctor's people had stepped in to settle the matter.The Time Lords had a policy of non-intervention in the affairs of the universe, but on a higher level, in the affairs of the Time Vortex, they had assumed discreetly the role of protectors. They were the self-appointed keepers of the peace. Until forced to fight.
Now, the story of the Great (and final) Time War is hard to piece together, because so little survived. Certainly, both superpowers had been testing each others' strength for many, many years. The Daleks had threatened the Time Lord High Council before, by trying to replace its members with Dalek duplicates. And one of the Dalek Puppet Emperors had openly declared his hostility. Though perhaps the Daleks' wrath was justifiable - they had been provoked! At one point in their history, the Time Lords had actually sent the Doctor back in time to prevent the creation of the Daleks. An act of genocide! The Time Lords fired the first shot - though in their defence, they took this course of action because they had foreseen a time when the Daleks would overrun all civilised life and become the dominant life-form in the universe.
Some tried to find a peaceful solution. While it's hard to find precise records of these events, it's said that under the Act of Master Restitution, President Romana opened a peace treaty with the Daleks. Others claim that the Etra Prime incident began the escalation of events. But whatever the cause - and it's almost certain that the full story has yet to be uncovered - the terrible Time War began. The Time Lords reached back into their own history, to assemble a fleet of Bowships, Black Hole Carriers and N-Forms; the Daleks unleashed the full might of the Deathsmiths of Goth, and launched an awesome fleet into the Vortex, led by the Emperor himself. The War raged, but for most species in the universe, life continued as normal. The War was fought in the Vortex, and beyond that, in the Ultimate Void, beyond the eyes and ears of ordinary creatures.
The lesser species lived in ignorance. If a planet found it's history subtly changing - perhaps distorting and rewriting itself under the pressures of the rupturing Vortex - then its people were part of that change, and perceived nothing to be wrong. Only the Higher Species - those further up the evolutionary ladder - saw what was happening.
The Forest of Cheem gazed upon the bloodshed, and wept. The Nestene Consciousness lost all of its planets, and found itself mutating under temporal stress. The Greater Animus perished and its Carsenome Walls fell into dust. And it is said that the Eternals themselves watched, and despaired of this reality, and fled their hallowed halls, never to be seen again...
Years passed, as the mighty armies clashed. And then, silence. No one knows what happened in the final battle. And no one knows how it came to an end. All that is known is that one man strode from the wreckage, one man walked free from the ruins of Gallifrey and Skaro. The Time Lord called the Doctor. And his hearts were heavy as he boarded his ship once more, and took to the skies, to escape everything he had just seen; everything he had just done..."

Happy_Gate
April 23rd, 2006, 01:25 AM
IMForeman, thanks for the Russel T. Davies excerpt. It certainly shed some light on the matter. :D

Darkseid
April 23rd, 2006, 01:40 AM
Actually, it leaves me with more questions......but thats how it should be. I don't think the official truth should ever come out in detail. Good to leave some to the imagination.....

creed462
April 23rd, 2006, 11:23 AM
It does leave more questions, but that is good because it brings mystery back to the Doctor

Happy_Gate
April 23rd, 2006, 06:12 PM
It's also a good way to explain away any paradoxes with previous doctors. Just claim it was the changes to history made by the rupturing vortex from the war.

yaaayoubetcha
April 24th, 2006, 06:19 AM
perhaps RTD will do a series of books if he's not willing to do the story on the screen.

still, I think with all the hints and angst, I think it's a safe bet that it's a story he does want to on tv, but probably wants assurances of at least an entire season to do it. commitments from both the BBC and DT or whoever is the Doctor at the time.

creed462
April 24th, 2006, 09:55 AM
It's also a good way to explain away any paradoxes with previous doctors. Just claim it was the changes to history made by the rupturing vortex from the war.
I think so too.

GhostPoet
April 26th, 2006, 10:34 AM
It's also a good way to explain away any paradoxes with previous doctors. Just claim it was the changes to history made by the rupturing vortex from the war.

If you don't mind, i'm going to use that as my next excuse to miss work!

Happy_Gate
April 27th, 2006, 08:15 AM
If you don't mind, i'm going to use that as my next excuse to miss work!
I don't think your boss is going to buy that!! You should stick with the good old "family emergency". :P

IMForeman
April 27th, 2006, 09:44 AM
If you don't mind, i'm going to use that as my next excuse to miss work!

I can just see that now.

"Sorry, boss. History changed from pressures on the vortex and my schedule changed right at the last second. Damn this Time War. Effects us all, doesn't it?"
"Time War?"
"Oh, yeah, that's right. You Lesser Species don't know about it, do you?"
"...Can I have a word with you in my office?"

Metarock Sam
April 27th, 2006, 09:52 AM
One way to get fired quickly :p

creed462
April 27th, 2006, 10:20 AM
very quickly

yaaayoubetcha
April 27th, 2006, 03:57 PM
yah....i find the lesser species don't like to be refered to that way.

Darkseid
April 27th, 2006, 04:24 PM
It's also a good way to explain away any paradoxes with previous doctors. Just claim it was the changes to history made by the rupturing vortex from the war.


You mean like how the show has given around three (give or take) explinations as to what has happened to Atlantis...?

Deputy-Assistant-Second-Prime
April 27th, 2006, 05:44 PM
You mean like how the show has given around three (give or take) explinations as to what has happened to Atlantis...?Or how the years don't match up for the U.N.I.T. stories? Some pretend to be ten years ahead, while others were supposed to be present day.

Or how The Five Doctors and The Two Doctors contradicts The War Games?

Or how the chronology of the Daleks was already messed up between the first two Dalek stories and got even more convoluted after Day of the Daleks and Genesis of the Daleks?

creed462
April 27th, 2006, 06:34 PM
Time travel isn't it fun with pardoxes

Darkseid
April 28th, 2006, 01:20 AM
Or how the years don't match up for the U.N.I.T. stories? Some pretend to be ten years ahead, while others were supposed to be present day.

Or how The Five Doctors and The Two Doctors contradicts The War Games?

Or how the chronology of the Daleks was already messed up between the first two Dalek stories and got even more convoluted after Day of the Daleks and Genesis of the Daleks?


HA!!!!

Ya know, I usually just pretend that those 70s UNIT stories were 10 years ahead and ignore the contradictions.

Don't get me started about those Dalek episodes. It was almost like they were purpousfully rewriting history (ya, ok, they were....but you know what I mean)

creed462
April 28th, 2006, 11:49 AM
Remember what the Doctor said
Time is always in flux