Were Micheal 's past action morally wrong?Can he..(S3 Spoiler)

[ckwongau]

Michael was created by Atlantis team, his past life was wipe out, and he re-started again as human (kind of ,but he require daily injection of retrovirus to stay human)
Even without the daily injection of retrovirus , Michael can never fully return to pure Wraith.
Michael's past action
Michael kill a few people of Atlantis while they were conducting experiment on him,kidnap Teyla and almost suck her life energy .
Working with the Hive queen to set up the Atlantis team.but the Atlantis team were , trying to turn Wraith human and let the other Wriath to feed on the new human food source.

The spoiler from
http://gateworld.net/news/2006/04/wr...yingdutc.shtml

spoiler
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Highlight the spoiler
some of the spoiler
"In the first two episodes of this season we're going to discover that he is no more welcome among the Wraith than he is among us,"
"Wright also says that he sees Michael as a sort of fourth class of Wraith, in addition to the Keepers ,Queens commanders, and warriors."

"There's going to be sort of an off-shoot. The character Michael is almost a hybrid Wraith-human," he said. "... I like the notion that Michael is that 'other species,' that Wraith-human hybrid that has issues with both races, for good reasons."
"And it's our fault. Boy is it our fault! "
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Can Michael redeem himself, does he need to redeem himself, if his action were result of Atlantis team's fault.
And if it was a War,The Wraith were only follow their nature ,but Michael is not natural
I

[abharding]

A lurker pops up to say hello...

Just going by what we have already seen...

I think that a big part of Micheal's story is going to the concept instinct vs choice. When Micheal killed the "redshirt" (for want of better term) he seemed upset by what happened and it seemed important to him that the others understood that he didn't have a choice. That he HAD to kill the guy. (I am not saying he did, but I think Micheal viewed it that way) Now for Wraith that is very different take. Most wouldn't care what the rest thought of him and the only reason he might care if the person lived or died would be how it impacted the feeding process.

In Allies it seemed important to him that Teyla understand that his desire to feed on her wasn't a choice, but an instinct, one that he had that time had a hard time controlling. A few moments later he goads Ronon with the observation that Ronon's instincts were to kill him (Micheal) then and there, but that Ronon couldn't because there would be consequences if Ronon acted on his instincts. And because of those consequences Ronon choses not to act.


For me the concept of instinct vs choice a good one to explore - and the use of character like Micheal is a good way to do it. I hope to see more the character and not just because I fan of the actor...

[vaberella]

Michael was created by Atlantis team, his past life was wipe out, and he re-started again as human (kind of ,but he require daily injection of retrovirus to stay human)

I'm iffy using the word that the Atlantis crew created 'Michael'. Nor does the description fit, it's like he was born again or something. I just get the feeling the terminology is really marginalizing the magnitude of what really happened. But I'll go with it for lack of a better words, at the moment.

Even without the daily injection of retrovirus , Michael can never fully return to pure Wraith.

I believe he can return to being pure Wraith, it's thinking like one the might not be able to do, and that makes me wonder how he feeds.

Spoiler:

Michael's past action
Michael kill a few people of Atlantis while they were conducting experiment on him,kidnap Teyla and almost suck her life energy .
Working with the Hive queen to set up the Atlantis team.but the Atlantis team were , trying to turn Wraith human and let the other Wriath to feed on the new human food source.
The spoiler from
http://gateworld.net/news/2006/04/wr...yingdutc.shtml

"In the first two episodes of this season we're going to discover that he is no more welcome among the Wraith than he is among us,"
"Wright also says that he sees Michael as a sort of fourth class of Wraith, in addition to the Keepers ,Queens commanders, and warriors."

"There's going to be sort of an off-shoot. The character Michael is almost a hybrid Wraith-human," he said. "... I like the notion that Michael is that 'other species,' that Wraith-human hybrid that has issues with both races, for good reasons."
"And it's our fault. Boy is it our fault! "

Can Michael redeem himself

I've always found questioning levels of morality quite dubious. No one is morally superior than another person,, since humans are fallable---the Pope (the only being on earth, who can claim infallability) is included, as long as your human--your fallable. But I will still try to put in some point of view as clearly as possible.

Michael in no way has to redeem himself. At the point where Michael kills the soldiers he's like a 5 year old who has a gun and shoots people when backed into a wall. He's completely unaware of the consequences and is compelled, I would say of the magnitude, of what he's done. Let me rephrase, a child is normally aware of right and wrong---truly by let's say the age of 12, at that point canon roughly puts you as a being of some level of rationality. But your TAUGHT that rationality through years of knowledge bestowed upon you by adults and or laws set forth.

The thing is...Michael never had that guidance as a Wraith, and it is unknown the level of true humanity he can have. (I say this not taking into account his faulty mannerisms, uniquely human several people complained about seen in 'Michael.' That's just bad continuity.) If a child is never taught how to live and play at a young age amongst his peers and having a scope of what can be said to be 'wrong and right' then how is it to be blamed for doing something said to be wrong in a social group that is foreign to him.

This has actually plagued courts. Based on the culture of a man can you blame him for acts committed in another cultural group. Let's say in one sect of people it's customary to beat your wife, and this man, moves to let's say a place this activity is not customary and she dies during one of his beatings. Do we have the right to place him under arrest?!

In some cases yes he would be found guilty. In some cases people would say the cultural attribute is significant and paticular to his kind and so we send him back to his kind and he can never live amongst our culture. But your again put in a position of trying to find that ground where you can debate morality. It's a state so dubious that I wonder how even Atlantis can really and truly ponder it.

But it does reestablish an innocence in regards to anything of 'Michael' he's the victim in all this REALLY, so for all his actions, he is then innocent.

does he need to redeem himself

How does one redeem himself, from committing no real crime or one that is a result of another's actions upon him? Even in fear humans have been known to either 'flight or fight' it's instinctual...and in piques of uncontrollable rage, is there anything really your fault? Hence the reason 'crimes of passion' are rarely convicted. It's you at your most animalistic---out of control, unreasonable.

if his action were result of Atlantis team's fault

It is the Atlantis' team's fault without a doubt. Once they set the stage of biological warfare as a good thing; they were in the wrong. Why? Was it their right? At that point all is to blame who agreed to this, who created this...even the accomplices.

You don't stand a chance when you decide to be the 'moral compass'--as some would put it. Your just an evil *******, in my eyes. Someone who deems himself or herself to hold a contrived belief of moral and ethical superiority; should hold some blame. Your human---you have no 'real' clue what is moral---just what YOUR cultural believes it to be. Pretty much all zealots are moral compasses. These moral compasses, have millions of deaths on their hands.

And if it was a War,The Wraith were only follow their nature ,but Michael is not natural

Michael is no longer natural, in the state of Wraith or Human, a state forced upon him by a group of people who deemed themselves God like; and took his life and made him in essence a tortured soul. And he'll be raging a war with both kinds or doesn't bother with either. He has no side now and that could make him more an enemy than an ally.

VB

[Avenger]

Morality is extremely relative in this case. As a Wraith, what he did was fine, but as a human, it wasn't

[vaberella]

Morality is extremely relative in this case. As a Wraith, what he did was fine, but as a human, it wasn't

But he wasn't human. He was injecting that retrovirus to make him human. And he never lived life as a human, to know human ways or laws.

[prion]

But he wasn't human. He was injecting that retrovirus to make him human. And he never lived life as a human, to know human ways or laws.

Morality is in the eyes of the beholder. Michael lived his entire life as a wraith and eating people is just the way you get by, just like we eat cattle, frogs or worms or whatever.

The SGA team wiped his mind clean (that in itself is rather immoral when it comes down to it) but then you have to wonder, did they implant memories, and if so, just where the heck did we get that kind of technology? Makes no sense. Was the nice Michael the subconscious or underlying Michael, or the effect of 'brainwashing' or what? THere are lots of questions.

I can't see how an injection of a retrovirus could alter his mind and a lifetime of behavioral patterns.

In Michael's wraith eyes, no, what he did wasn't wrong. In his walked a mile in a human's shoes eyes, he might see that eating another sentient being isn't quite right.... but now he's back to being a wraith, so.... he's gotta eat.

[ckwongau]

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The SGA team wiped his mind clean (that in itself is rather immoral when it comes down to it) but then you have to wonder, did they implant memories, and if so, . .

The retro-virus were so powerful Michael lost all his memories form his earlier life as a Wriath.Teyla just told him a lot of lie about his loss of memories were cause by an injuries.They didn't implant any memories on him, but now they have the technologies from SGC,that can record and playback memories.i hope they use the memories device the next time, sicne col Mitchell were giving them away ,he even left his old friend a copy of his memories with the device in a hospital.

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In Michael's wraith eyes, no, what he did wasn't wrong. In his walked a mile in a human's shoes eyes, he might see that eating another sentient being isn't quite right.... but now he's back to being a wraith, so.... he's gotta eat.

Michael walked a few mile while holding Teyla as a hostage, his life as human only show him human's flaw.
Teyla told him a pack lies, and people looked at him funny because theyknew what he was, and when he find out the Truth, Teyla just told him he is better off because "Wriath are just Evil" . And Atlantis team only show him cruelity , treated him like an animal, locking him up and force him to change against his will .If anything the Atlantis team actually gave Michael a good reason to hate human, as A Wraith they eat human they don't hate their food, but Michael only see Human just as bad and with good reason.

[prion]

The retro-virus were so powerful Michael lost all his memories form his earlier life as a Wriath.Teyla just told him a lot of lie about his loss of memories were cause by an injuries.They didn't implant any memories on him, but now they have the technologies from SGC,that can record and playback memories.i hope they use the memories device the next time, sicne col Mitchell were giving them away ,he even left his old friend a copy of his memories with the device in a hospital.

Um, did the epsiode actually say that the retrovirus caused the memory loss? I can't recall.

[ckwongau]

Um, did the epsiode actually say that the retrovirus caused the memory loss? I can't recall.

Actually yes

From the transcript of "Michael"

When Michael find out the truth about the experiment on him
Sheppard and the other were discuss the option for Michael

SHEPPARD: Well, if he doesn't, we'll have to insist. (Carson looks at him, startled.) Who knows -- maybe another big dose might wipe his memory clean again.

TEYLA: And then what? We start the lies all over again?

[the fifth man]

Michael's been a great character so far. I hope we see him a few times this coming season. Good or bad, it should be interesting to see what TPTB do with him.

[rarocks24]

I think it's too soon to judge Michael, cuz one episode where he was human for as long as two or three days is just stupid, and his brief cameo appearance in Allies doesn't give him justice at all.

[Lightbane]

This would be really really hard to explain if it was morally correct,

a) Wraith have no morals
b) Hes not a Wraith
c) Hes not human either

so that puts this issue of morality in a really difficult situation, he has 2 sets of instincts/personalities inside of him, he has the normal Wraith feeding insinct and he has a humans sense of morals

Seeing that he is now no longer neither Wraith or human that would put him in as another race/species or off-shot (sub-species) of Wraith/humans, from the screencaps you can get from "Allies" his face still resembles that of a human but his skin is yellow and his hair is un-wraithlike

so maybe the writers will put in a storyline where maybe Micheal gets some of this virus and turns a hive into humans for a short peroid before they morph back to the un-Wraithlikeness

[ckwongau]

This would be really really hard to explain if it was morally correct,

a) Wraith have no morals
b) Hes not a Wraith
c) Hes not human either

so that puts this issue of morality in a really difficult situation, he has 2 sets of instincts/personalities inside of him, he has the normal Wraith feeding insinct and he has a humans sense of morals

I don't think Michael had develop any human sense of moral during his brief life as a human, he was lie to ,subjected to medical experiment, and treated like a disease.If Michael had learnt anything human from Atlantis team is the "immoral of man", Shepard and Teyla were telling him he was better off as human .Shepard and Teyla were acting like morally superior and self-rightous. Michael were the victim of their experiment in "Michael"

so maybe the writers will put in a storyline where maybe Micheal gets some of this virus and turns a hive into humans for a short peroid before they morph back to the un-Wraithlikeness

actually the spoiler said that
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Michael is unwelcome by both human and Wraith, and it is all Atlantis team's fault ,their mistake will come abck and haunt them.

[Ace-Ventura]

i don't think that we can say that micheal's past action morally is wrong. It's like if you turned a lion into a human. if he attacked someone could you say that it's morally wrong? i can't, because it was in his nature to do that.

[Damar]

I believe that by doing this to Micheal, the Atlantis expedition has lowered itself near the level of the Wraith.

They have no more morale ground to think that they are superior in the Pegasus galaxy, in the ethical sense, even against the Genii.