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GateWorld
April 14th, 2006, 01:29 PM
<DIV ALIGN=CENTER><TABLE WIDTH=450 BORDER=0 CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=7><TR><TD STYLE="border:0;"><DIV ALIGN=LEFT><FONT FACE="Arial" SIZE=2 COLOR="#000000"><A HREF="http://www.scifistream.com/doctor-who/s2/"><IMG SRC="http://www.scifistream.com/wp-content/uploads/213.jpg" WIDTH=160 HEIGHT=120 ALIGN=RIGHT HSPACE=10 VSPACE=2 BORDER=0 STYLE="border:1px solid #000;" ALT="Visit the Episode Guide"></A><FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#888888">DOCTOR WHO SERIES 28</FONT>
<FONT SIZE=4><A HREF="http://www.scifistream.com/doctor-who/s2/" STYLE="text-decoration: none">DOOMSDAY</A></FONT>
<FONT SIZE=1>EPISODE NUMBER - 2813</FONT>
<IMG SRC="/images/clear.gif" WIDTH=1 HEIGHT=10 ALT="">
Earth's future -- and Rose's life -- hang in the balance when the armies of the Cybermen and the Daleks invade from beyond our universe and go to war.

<FONT SIZE=1><B><A HREF="http://www.scifistream.com/doctor-who/s2/">VISIT THE EPISODE GUIDE >></A></B></FONT></FONT></DIV></TD></TR></TABLE></DIV>

TheWarrior
July 8th, 2006, 12:28 PM
Amazing Season Finale

All Round Drama, Tension and saddness.

I'll post more tomorrow - glad that Rose didn't die.

Tracy Jane
July 8th, 2006, 12:30 PM
I'm still in shock, I think! It was amazing, especially Cyberyvonne! I loved the childish arguing between the daleks and the cybermen, and despite the ship at the end, I really loved it. Catherine Tate?!?! WOOOOOHHHOOOOOO! The only thing that really annoyed me was that whole Pete/Jackie running towards each other etc. I just laughed when my dad started yelling at the screen "How can you cyber Yvonne and leave that cow Jackie alone?!"

The Signal
July 8th, 2006, 12:32 PM
:eek: OMG!

Okay, I was worried this was going to be crap, but it was pretty amazing. I KNEW it wasnt Davros (okay hoped, they cant pull off him OR The Master yet IMO) in the arc! A prison was a pretty good idea really, simple and likely, very nice. I read someone who pretty much described how it would end, so well done to them, and thank God they found a good way to get Rose out without killing her, and the "This is the story of how I died" was nicely planned out.

I dont know about the rest of you, but the shippyness was well dealt with IMO, its good to know that The Doctor can feel love, but is never allowed it, the Universe wont let him, that IMO was great writing.

Two grouches, the Dalek Sumpreme seemed a bit too human for my likeing at certain points, and Cyber-Yvonne shouldnt have been possible.

Pro's, along with the Eternals last week, Skaaro got a mention this week! Yay!

It'll be odd without Rose, but life goes on!
10/10!

Bring on Christmas! No, bring on October and Torchwood!

Metarock Sam
July 8th, 2006, 12:32 PM
It was excellent a great end to the second series and had practically everything you would want for a finale.
A fantastic banter between the Daleks and Cybermen hurling insults at each other Cheesy
Supreme Dalek : You are only superior to us in one way, you are better at Dying !!!!
The Supreme Dalek went out of phase. Obviously surviving and it will be great to see its return in series 3.
The Return of Mickey, Pete and the Priors was great !!!!!!!!!!!!!! expecially with that moment between Pete and Jackie
The Doctor seperated from Rose. Even though roginally I couldnt wait for Rose to leave that moment was quite heartbreaking.
If everything is parallel e.g Parallel Torchwood Perhaps we may end up with a Parallel Doctor next season ???
Although the ending with Catherine Tate was a bit bad. I was expecting her to say am I bovverd or something. Tongue
Superb acting from all the cast and superb Directing from Graham Harper

One question I wonder what happens if you watch that episode with 3d glasses on ???

cvife
July 8th, 2006, 12:33 PM
excellent episode, my only problem is that the genesis ark only contained loads of daleks, and not davros

in circles
July 8th, 2006, 12:37 PM
That was bloody awesome. Loved the Dalek/Cyberman name calling. It was such a sad ending up until the point where Cathering Tate appeared and ruined it.

silverdamascus
July 8th, 2006, 12:39 PM
Oooh, my poor Doctor. :(

Oh, I need a hug...

Indum'kra
July 8th, 2006, 12:42 PM
So the ark was a TARDIS-style prison...nice, wasn't expecting that. Rose got her family back, but lost the doctor, and he went back to being alone, poor bloke. In other words, if you travel with him, there nothing else, it's the universe or your mum, and sadly for him, that means he can't form long-term relationships for his companions sake. Also liked the Supreme Dalek escaping-we can't go through the 11th, 12th and 13th doctors without them. Oh, and of course, millions of Daleks and Cybermen blowing the crap out of each other :D

I can't say much about the ending, except the doctor's words were the same as mine.

Egeria
July 8th, 2006, 12:46 PM
Oooh, my poor Doctor. :(

Oh, I need a hug...

*hugs silverdamascus*

What an amazing episode, I'm too emotional to post anything at the moment (been blubbing like a bairn).

BC - 303
July 8th, 2006, 12:53 PM
brilliant. Just brilliant!
love the Genisis Arc prison
And the Dalek escaping, it would be silly to kill him off.
Dalek and cybermen bickering was good.

Reefgirl
July 8th, 2006, 12:58 PM
Bloody superb episode I loved the fact that the family stayed together. David Tennant and Billie Piper acted their socks off in this, I managed to keep my chin up until the final shots with the Doctor with tears running down his face then the dam burst. Then &$%£ing Catherine Tate has to &*%£ing well spoil it, I half expected her to say "Tardis, Doctor, am I bovvered" that really spoiled the end for me. Apart from that apology for a comedienne at the end I thought this was one of the best of the series.

Flyboy
July 8th, 2006, 01:04 PM
Ok. I'm going to be hated for this...

Good. But certainly not great.

Problem 1.

Where the hell was our military? Where were the bombers, the fighter Jets, the SAS storming the Torchwood Tower, UNIT, apache Helicopters mowing down cybermen in the streets, WHERE WAS OUR ARMY!?

Oh yes, on a bridge. And even once they'd sucesfully taken out a cyberman with an RPG, where were the REST of the RPGs?

Problem 2.

My GOD, the shippiness made me want to DIE. The Doctor really was about to say he loved Rose. NO, GOD NO, WHY!?!?!

Problem 3.

How the hell did every Dalek and cyberman swarm through ONE window into Torchwood tower, no crashing through windows or walls? Hmm.

Problem 4.

Yyvone retained her individuality!? Hell love for Queen and country isn't THAT strong, I don't care which BNP convention you look at.

Problem 5.

Why the hell does Time lord technology look like it was made by Dalek Inc?

Problem 6.

When the Doctor did his little Sonic Scredriver talk why the hell did the Cybermen AND Jake's gang break through the SAME door, TOGETHER. Upgrading put on hold is it?

Problem 7.

Would you walk into becoming a cyberman or would you run and get shot? I know which I'd do...

Problem 8.

Anyone want to use any of the alien weaponry sitting down in the Torchwood vaults?

Problem 9.

Why the HELL were the co-ordinates 666,666 for the void? I mean MY GOD.

Things I liked:

Dalek - Cybermen banter. Sweet.

Dalek scenes before they met the Cybermen.

General feel of the episode before it went shippy.

Mickey kicked ass.

silverdamascus
July 8th, 2006, 01:08 PM
Then &$%£ing Catherine Tate has to &*%£ing well spoil it, I half expected her to say "Tardis, Doctor, am I bovvered" that really spoiled the end for me. Apart from that apology for a comedienne at the end I thought this was one of the best of the series.

I don't know who she is but I resented her presence.

Tracy Jane
July 8th, 2006, 01:18 PM
FOB, I somehow didn't get the impression that it was Yvonne's love for queen and country, I more got the impression that cybermen remove emotion and Yvonne was supposedly a cold, heartless b**** beforehand, so turning her into a cyberman didn't change much *shrug*.

The thing I'm more interested in is the fact that Yvonne only belongs in this reality. Does that mean she wasn't sucked into the void and we'll be seeing cyberyvonne again?

Flyboy
July 8th, 2006, 01:21 PM
Excellent catch on the Yvvone bit and our reality!

Reefgirl
July 8th, 2006, 01:24 PM
I don't know who she is but I resented her presence.
She's the one with the annoying "Am I Bovvered" catchphrase

Flyboy
July 8th, 2006, 01:25 PM
http://img256.imageshack.us/img256/875/apache0nq.jpg

Let's see a Cyberman stand up to THAT!

BC - 303
July 8th, 2006, 01:31 PM
mabey the emotianal inhibitator just didnt work?
Prohaps?

TheUniqueDrone
July 8th, 2006, 01:57 PM
That was a good episode, but it wasn't great.

R.T.D. stated that this episode was epic (in DW:C), but it just didn't have the atmosphere. I mean, all of the action was centred on Canary Wharf, and some unspecified bridge with all of about 10 soldiers versus the same number of Cybermen. Oh, and a street with some unimportant family in it. There was no sense of grand scale.

The Daleks were great, as usual, but I was hoping that the PTB wouldn't resort to the same enemy they used for last season's finale. The show has to move on a bit. And the constant reappearance of the Daleks makes the Doctor look idiotic too. He apparently killed all of his kind to destroy the Daleks but millions escaped. The Dalek in Dalek, the Dalek Emperor, the Daleks in the void ship, the ones in the Genesis Ark... Sounds like the Doctor did a shoddy job at eliminating the Daleks.


My GOD, the shippiness made me want to DIE. The Doctor really was about to say he loved Rose. NO, GOD NO, WHY!?!?!]
My sentiments exactly. Urgh. They crossed the line with the ship, like with the Doctor's line: 'I'm blowing up a star just to see you,' (or something like that).

The only other minor fault: Cyber-Yvonne. It just didn't seem possible to me, especially when she started crying.

Still, there were lots of good points. I thought the Dalek/Cyberman stand-off and the trading of insults between them was great. The Daleks are still great, and their interrogation of the Torchwood scientist at the beginning showed that they haven't lost their ruthlessness. I liked the last-minute surprise that stopped Rose from disappearing into the Void, which I wasn't expecting. And finally, the Genesis Ark was a great idea.

A good story, overall, I thought: 8/10

Indum'kra
July 8th, 2006, 02:00 PM
http://img256.imageshack.us/img256/875/apache0nq.jpg

Let's see a Cyberman stand up to THAT!
So they probably took out the major weaponry on their initial assault when they crossed over, and the guys on the bridge were just one of a few pockets of resistance left ;)

As for Yyvonne, she went into the chamber with pride and a strong mind and sense of duty, rather than screaming and weak-minded like many others. That may have had something to do with it.

Flyboy
July 8th, 2006, 02:04 PM
One last ditch attempt to overpower the Cybermen and possibly being killed in the process sounds much better to be than walking into the cyber-fryer.

Indum'kra
July 8th, 2006, 02:08 PM
One last ditch attempt to overpower the Cybermen and possibly being killed in the process sounds much better to be than walking into the cyber-fryer.
Well, they needed a Deus ex machina :indeed:

Flyboy
July 8th, 2006, 02:22 PM
Well, they needed a Deus ex machina :indeed:
Wish I knew what one of those was...

Indum'kra
July 8th, 2006, 02:23 PM
Wish I knew what one of those was...
It's when something unexpected arrives at the last moment and saves the day.

Othere
July 8th, 2006, 02:27 PM
Am I bovvered though...whatever!!!
Catherine Tate...WTF!!!!

Flyboy
July 8th, 2006, 02:29 PM
It's when something unexpected arrives at the last moment and saves the day.
Cheers

Indum'kra
July 8th, 2006, 02:32 PM
Cheers
For Trivia's sake, Deus Ex Machina more or less means 'god-sent'.

beale947
July 8th, 2006, 02:34 PM
Now I though the episode was great :D. The Cybermen and the Daleks taunting each other was funny, and the cybermen got there assed kicked royally, the very end was good, you have to have things like that to make the doctor 3D, not just someone who can just leave someone behind with no emotion, he isn't a cyberman.

Matt G
July 8th, 2006, 02:36 PM
Well,

1. The trash talk between the Daleks and Cybermen was class.

2. CyberYvvone....hmmm deus ex machina = story's Achilles heel.

3. Liked Pete and Jackie but that last scene between the Doctor and Rose was sludgy as hell.

4. IMDBd Catherine Tate...hmmm...'think' I know who she is now. I'll wait till Xmas to judge her.

Overall, reckon last week had the edge but a generally solid sign off. Rose will leave a bloody big gap.

beale947
July 8th, 2006, 02:45 PM
"You will defeat 5 million cybermen, with four daleks!??"

"We could defeat the cybermen with one dalek."

THat whole scene was funny.

Flyboy
July 8th, 2006, 02:56 PM
For Trivia's sake, Deus Ex Machina more or less means 'god-sent'.
Soooooo

A Hail Mary? :-p

Reefgirl
July 8th, 2006, 03:00 PM
Am I bovvered though...whatever!!!
Catherine Tate...WTF!!!!
Glad I'm not the only one who thinks that

Billz
July 8th, 2006, 03:09 PM
It was an all round great episode. I too was confused as to why the Genesis Ark looked like it was made by the Daleks, even though it was established it was made by the Timelords. The Doctor and Rose shippiness finally got on my nerves though (it didnt before in the season). Im glad they finally explained the Doctors 3D specs. And Catherine Tate in a wedding dress at the end?!? WTF!!!

It was kinda obvious that the Daleks would ultimatly prove to be more supirior then the Cybermen. It was still cool to see them face off against each other though.

I know the daleks and cybermen were all supposed to have been sucked through back to the void but did anyone actually notice any cybermen flying through the Torchwood wall, it only looked like the Daleks going to me.

We can expect the Daleks to be back though because the black leader used its 'emergency temporal shift'. Lets see what happens in season 29...

9.5/10 :cameron:

Blitz
July 8th, 2006, 03:10 PM
I liked it: my only two qualms were :

1) JAckie and Pete...dunno why...just...you could see it was emotional, and meant to be, but didnt click.

2) Tate at the end - just didnt click either, plus she didnt look like a nice bride :(

OTHERWISE: I LOVED it.

I didnt expect the G.Ark to be a prison, I expected it to open with Davros or the Master!

I missed all but the last two episodes of this season (kept up with major bits tho) so first proper show of the Cybermen, and the taunting between the two was GREAT!

Especially about how the Cybermen can die easier :P

OH OH OH! The fact that the Dalek Supreme Time shifted!!!! Thats gonna rock for me! Will he be back, will he hide and regrow the Daleks, will he rust...shocker!

All in all 9.9/10! :D

Blitz xxxxxxx

silverdamascus
July 8th, 2006, 03:34 PM
Ok. I'm going to be hated for this...
Problem 2.

My GOD, the shippiness made me want to DIE. The Doctor really was about to say he loved Rose. NO, GOD NO, WHY!?!?!
.

Don't hate you, but disagree :).

We don't know what he was going to say, it may have been "I love you" it may not. It could have easily have been "You were fantastic and so was I". Or knowing the Doctor's tendencies towards things like this something stupid about banannas or teaspoons, though I doubt it.

Even with all the not so sub texty shippyness, love doesn't mean ship. We know he loves her. You don't do what the Doctor has done for Rose without love. Whatever kind of love doesn't matter.

Whatever he was going to say, I'd have been fine with it. The fact that we'll never know was quite beautiful, incredibly sad but beautiful.

BC - 303
July 8th, 2006, 03:44 PM
Don't hate you, but disagree :).

We don't know what he was going to say, it may have been "I love you" it may not. It could have easily have been "You were fantastic and so was I". Or knowing the Doctor's tendencies towards things like this something stupid about banannas or teaspoons, though I doubt it.

Even with all the not so sub texty shippyness, love doesn't mean ship. We know he loves her. You don't do what the Doctor has done for Rose without love. Whatever kind of love doesn't matter.

Whatever he was going to say, I'd have been fine with it. The fact that we'll never know was quite beautiful, incredibly sad but beautiful.
Totaly agreed, although Doctor 10 tends to say "Brilliant", it was 9 that said "Fantastic"
Interesting note, on watching it a third time (i videoed it just so i could watch it over and over) i notised that it was a Dalek Supreme that teliported, NOT the Cult of Skaro Dalek Sec (he didnt have the little logo and wasnt all black).
Interesting note.

silverdamascus
July 8th, 2006, 03:56 PM
Hadn't quite noticed 10's tendency to say brilliant (blushes), but the use of 9's fantastic in there was intended. :)

I can't distinguish Dalek's other than by colour, was there more than one black one? I kept thinking the one that disappeared was going to pop back and off Rose on front of the Doctor. I'm not quite sure whether that would have been worse or not...

Mr.Clark
July 8th, 2006, 04:00 PM
The thing I'm more interested in is the fact that Yvonne only belongs in this reality. Does that mean she wasn't sucked into the void and we'll be seeing cyberyvonne again?
As I understood it, the quick-and-easy path to "upgrade" involved sticking the brain into a cyber body.

In order to get that many cyber bodies without arousing suspicion, they must have brought them from the alternate reality.

So they could get sucked into the void too.

As for the Genesis Arc looking like Dalek tech - it was a prison built to hold Daleks... why not make it look like that. It was a war. Function over form etc...

Anyway, fantastic ep, made better by the fact that I have no idea who Catherine Tate is.

I just thought "What?"

HyperCaz
July 8th, 2006, 06:03 PM
"Brilliant" episode ;) Made me laugh (Cybermen vs Dalek - absolutely classic) and, yes, cry. :) Whether or not that is real 'ship, it was very sad. I really didn't like Catherine Tate appearing all of a sudden - killed the mood. Writers can't even let the Doctor have a few moments to himself.

I admit to being a shipper and I think it was handled alright for both sides of the fence ;) (he didn't say anything, so it's left open - I don't mind that - that's what fanfiction is for afterall).

I did find the running hugs a bit annoying in the episode. I honestly had no idea what was going on with Cybervonne but I guess that's all she thought of in her life and all she thought of in her "death" so...it could happen.

Prior_of_the_Ori
July 8th, 2006, 06:05 PM
Loved the episode the Cybermen and Dalek banter was hilarious and i personally expected that response from the Daleks about that alliance. I felt sorry for the Cybermen because they could not come up with that type of humour that the Daleks were employing :p even though it was a nasty type of humour. Not surprised that the Cybermen got massacred since Dalek tech is wayyy more advanced then humans and thought that the Cybermen had an advantage in numbers which disappeared once the Ark was opened.

I think a person commented here saying that the Dalek Cult of Skaro leader seemed too human well I think that might be the point because they were supposed to 'act' like their enemy. I personally thought it made them somewhat unique and cool. What was really scary was how Rose ticked off that Dalek Supreme about destroying the Emperor, if the Doctor didnt come then its likely she would have be killed. And of course the 'initiate emergency temporal shift' shows to us that we know that the Daleks will return and 'take their rightful place as the SUPREME POWER OF THE UNIVERSE!'

As for yvone, well perhaps the cyber conversion process was not complete. Or it could be intense emotion and a 'mind over matter' type thing because in the Tomb of the Cybermen one person was cyber converted and he 'overcame' his programming to fight against the beings that turned him into a 'monster'.

I just wonder if this means the end for the Cybermen considering the barriers between dimensions have been sealed...supposedly. Could it mean that Earth (after seeing the Cybermen) attempts to recreate the way the Cybermen were created and accidentally create our Earths version of Daleks? I mean if there was a Lumic in one reality then there could be a Lumic in ours. Or would we meet the original Cybermen of Mondas who would be wayyyy more advanced then Earth based Cybermen or did a few Cybermen actually survive falling into the void and will rebuild?

Also I was surprised that the Genesis Ark was a prison, I personally thought it was some kind of weapon that would turn Earth into mutants so they could be turned into Daleks or something like that (as the Dalek Emperor did). Guess it was the Genesis in the name that made me think that :p I agree with Mr. Clark also about the shape. It was a prison FOR Daleks not just a prison because think about it...if the Time Lords put anyone else in there then they would have been EX-TER-MINATED!

Finally, another new bit of information was the mention of the Battle of Arcadia. That was interesting and wondered what the Doctor meant about 'coming to terms' with what he did. It kind of reminds me of the Beasts comment about the Doctor being the 'killer of his own kind'. Does it mean that the Doctor sacrificed his own race to destroy the Daleks? Still, love the exploration of the Time War and how it has affected the universe.

I think that my only qualm with the episode was that the Pete and Jackie scene was kind of drawn out a bit long. Loved the ending though because it meant 'and off to another wacky adventure' :D though must admit I will kind of miss Rose.

ShadowMaat
July 8th, 2006, 06:13 PM
The Pete/Jackie scene went on too long. All those Cybermen and Daleks around and not one of them intruded to spare us that reunion? :P

Kudos to whoever called Rose winding up with her family being reunited. I suppose it WAS inevitable. *sigh*

YAY FOR JAKE!! I wuvs him. http://www.pushupstairs.com/images/emoticon/neptune/Animated/Romance/romance007.gif He didn't have much of a part this time around, but it was still good to see him again.

All the Cybermen/Dalek stuff was fantas- I mean, brilliant. :D Nothing quite beats two species trying to conquer the same planet at the same time (how embarrassing!) and then winding up fighting each other. Loved it!

I could have done without all the Rose blubbering. Oy. Can't say I got very emotional about it, but that's probably because Rose tends to come off as very selfish and spoiled, particularly where the Doctor is concerned and I'm kinda glad to see her parted from him.

D'you think the bride was introduced as a way of preventing all the Rose-lovers from focusing their hatred on the new Companion? Put a temp in between them as a buffer to receive all the outrage and anger sorta thing? I wonder which universe she's from...

Great ep, lots of great moments despite the gag-inducing shippiness. Knowing this was the end of Rose made that a lot easier to deal with, although I wish they hadn't had the Doctor on the verge of admitting he loved her, too. Yeah, he poofed before he said it to leave it open-ended, but does anyone honestly think he was about to say something else? :rolleyes:

I suppose a case could be made that the Doctor loves ALL his Companions, to one degree or another. I could live with that. But leave the romance out of the equation, please. I don't want to see that kind of baggage tossed around.

So. Christmas. Ye gods, it's forever away... :(

*wanders off to read her Who novels in consolation*

edit: oh yeah, and yay for another mention of bad wolf! :D

NowIWillDestroyAbydos
July 8th, 2006, 06:45 PM
Great episode. Can't wait for X-Mas for the Runaway Bride, I hope Captain Jack returns for that one. The Ending was awesome, and it was a cliffhanger, that was kinda cool. I loved the scene between the Dalek (without the "s" at the end) and the Cybermen.

ShadowMaat
July 8th, 2006, 07:10 PM
I loved the initial exchange between them in particular.

Dalek: Identify yourself!
Cyberman: Identify yourself first!
Dalek: No, you first!
Cyberman: Nuh-uh, YOU first!
Dalek: Daleks do not take orders!
Cyberman: AHA! You're a Dalek!
Dalek: ****!

LOL!

Dallista
July 8th, 2006, 10:20 PM
I'm still in shock over what happened. I cried buckets the last ten minutes or so, and for quite a while afterwards, as well.
Poor Doctor. :( Poor Rose. :(

Madeleine
July 8th, 2006, 11:21 PM
That was smashing. I'm not entirely sure why opening the void caused all the void-things to be sucked in - that's not what happenned the first time the void was opened - but when the shape of the story is this exciting and when the acting and dialogue is this good I can ignore plot holes. (Is the Void a plot hole or a Plot Hole? :p).

Glad Rose has gone. I liked her, but I'm ready for something new now. And I liked Jackie in small doses, but I was getting bored of Pete. Mickey didn't get to do much this ep, but I'm glad he ended up with Rose. And I'm glad she got to see that he was as capable of being a hero as she was. He was on the slow side, but he was a decent bloke and I don't think she'll undervalue him like she always used to anymore.

i'm relieved that they never went towards fullblown shippiness. It's readable as that for them as want shippiness, but to me it was affectionate love, not romantic love. Certainly on his side it's like that. On hers it doesn't bother me if I see her wanting more as it's been a theme of the whole 2nd/28th series that she's wanting to always stay with the Doctor and he and we have known that that was just not going to happen. Seeing her getting ever more attatched just made it more of a wrench when the end finally came.

I liked how their final meeting place was Bad Wolf Fjord.

Locutus_Of_Borg
July 8th, 2006, 11:37 PM
Great episode, lot of drama
one thing i didnt get though, they said that the Genesis Ark was the last thing from the Time-Lord homeworld, but in the 2006 movie the world was still there, so did the war with the Darlics happen after the movie and before the 2005-6 series or was it a common misconception, lot of confusion.
I'm not to familier with the old series

Othere
July 9th, 2006, 12:51 AM
As for yvone, well perhaps the cyber conversion process was not complete. Or it could be intense emotion and a 'mind over matter' type thing because in the Tomb of the Cybermen one person was cyber converted and he 'overcame' his programming to fight against the beings that turned him into a 'monster'.

The conversion process went wrong - this is why Jackie was able to escape. The whole Yvonne thing was ok, but I wasn't sure it worked to be honest.



I just wonder if this means the end for the Cybermen considering the barriers between dimensions have been sealed...supposedly. Could it mean that Earth (after seeing the Cybermen) attempts to recreate the way the Cybermen were created and accidentally create our Earths version of Daleks? I mean if there was a Lumic in one reality then there could be a Lumic in ours. Or would we meet the original Cybermen of Mondas who would be wayyyy more advanced then Earth based Cybermen or did a few Cybermen actually survive falling into the void and will rebuild?

I wondered this, that if the alternative reality has cybermen, and it is almost a mirror if this reality, would there not be an alternative doctor?!

Locutus_Of_Borg
July 9th, 2006, 01:06 AM
I had that same thought, there should be another Doctor, because the only difference between the universes was that Pete survived which led another set of events.

Willow'sCat
July 9th, 2006, 01:31 AM
Well here goes... I wasn't really impressed at all with this. :cool: It was not as good as last years PotW didn't even come close. :cool:

Too shippy, I don't want to know if she loved him and no I did not cry at all! :rolleyes:

Actually it was one of my least fave eps, total waste of the Daleks, they deserve better then to be used as a plot device so Rose can weep over The Doctor I wish they had of killed her. I don't hate Rose but having her alive means one day they may revisit this Shippy rubbish and I don't want that ever to happen again.

The Cybermen never stood a chance against the Daleks blind Freddy could see that, they never have been much chop as enemies anyway. I liked the Geniuses being TimeLord tech and a prison, nice twist but so would it have been if Davros had been inside it! Again a total waste of the Daleks.

I can't quite put my finger on what I really didn't like but there is just something about this ep that seems so unresolved and no I don't mean the Shipping! Maybe that is where the Bride comes in... Lol! It Romana III! :p

Oh and bummed no end that we didn't see Capt Jack. :( I can't wait until August! :S I want him now. :cool:

In short OK but I wasn't pleased. *yeah I know weird for me too* Glad I changed my username when I did. :D

Othere
July 9th, 2006, 03:02 AM
Well here goes... I wasn't really impressed at all with this. :cool: It was not as good as last years PotW didn't even come close. :cool:

Too shippy, I don't want to know if she loved him and no I did not cry at all! :rolleyes:

Actually it was one of my least fave eps, total waste of the Daleks, they deserve better then to be used as a plot device so Rose can weep over The Doctor I wish they had of killed her. I don't hate Rose but having her alive means one day they may revisit this Shippy rubbish and I don't want that ever to happen again.

I was really hoping that one of the daleks would bounce off the wall and clip Rose on the way into the void, taking her into the void with it.
The soppy stuff at the end was a bit much for me. I would have prefered it to have ended with them one either side of the wall when it faded to black.

The whole Catherine Tate thing has me riled, Peter Kay was ok until he opened his mouth and I am just dreading the whole xmas special thang.
I can just see the conversation in the xmas special going something along the lines of this:
Dr: I'm the doctor of course
Tate: But do I look bovvered though...

So many better actors out there to cast, would have prefered an unknown or nearly-unknown actor.

The best part for me was the dalek/cyberman playground taunts :)

Reefgirl
July 9th, 2006, 03:46 AM
Don't hate you, but disagree :).

We don't know what he was going to say, it may have been "I love you" it may not. It could have easily have been "You were fantastic and so was I". Or knowing the Doctor's tendencies towards things like this something stupid about banannas or teaspoons, though I doubt it.

Even with all the not so sub texty shippyness, love doesn't mean ship. We know he loves her. You don't do what the Doctor has done for Rose without love. Whatever kind of love doesn't matter.

Whatever he was going to say, I'd have been fine with it. The fact that we'll never know was quite beautiful, incredibly sad but beautiful.
hear hear, well said

shonac85
July 9th, 2006, 04:13 AM
Must... Stop...Crying!!!

I loved that episode. It had it all. What a brilliant ending. And I love the comments between the Daleks and the Cybermen. Come on, I mean "THis is not war, this is pest control"! A dalek with a sense of humour! Brilliant!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Didn't everyone just want to give the Doctor a big hug!

Mr.Clark
July 9th, 2006, 04:31 AM
Great episode, lot of drama
one thing i didnt get though, they said that the Genesis Ark was the last thing from the Time-Lord homeworld, but in the 2006 movie the world was still there, so did the war with the Darlics happen after the movie and before the 2005-6 series or was it a common misconception, lot of confusion.
I'm not to familier with the old series
What 2006 film? The McGann one ten years ago? That was before the Time War.

iLemon
July 9th, 2006, 04:39 AM
Brilliant ending! :D I didn't cry but it was very emotional. Dont like what they did with the Daleks though, it was too quick, I wanted more action, they could've made this episode last a bit longer then normal.

As for Catherine Tate, dont get me started :S Out of all the actors in the world why her?! I agree with what Othere, I would've preferred an unknown actor too.

I loved the conversation between the Daleks and the Cybermen, one of the best parts of the ep :)

BC - 303
July 9th, 2006, 04:47 AM
just ignore Cathrine Tate, and if you dislike shippyness, put up with it because there are people who do, i think it was handled very well.

Naonak
July 9th, 2006, 06:48 AM
Other than a few tiny niggles (why did they all go through the window), it was an awesome episode. Thank God for "Emerency Temporal Shift!" - means the Daleks aren't gone. :cool:

Dalek/Cybermen banter was great. "You are better at dying." :)

Bad Wolf Bay!

Thought the Bride bit at the end spoiled the mood, although I liked the Doctor's reaction. I'd have been happy for the Christmas one to start at that point, and have the end of 'Doomsday' as the beginning of the Christmas ep, instead of introducing the Bride at the end of this episode.

Rose will be a tough act to follow.
I wonder if the new companion will be introduced in the Christmas ep, or if the Doctor will be alone for it.

ShadowMaat
July 9th, 2006, 06:52 AM
That was smashing. I'm not entirely sure why opening the void caused all the void-things to be sucked in - that's not what happenned the first time the void was opened
I assume it's a matter of how you open the door. Up until now, the door opened from the Void into our universe, but the Doctor fiddled with the controls so that it opened from our universe into the Void. That's probably still a little iffy, but it works a bit better than the Void just randomly deciding to snatch everything back into itself. ;)

My question(s), however, would be how did all the Cybermen manage to already be in place all over the world as soon as the Void opened? And even if we accept that, how come in order to get them back into the void they all had to go through the hole/doorway in Torchwood Tower? Shouldn't they have been yanked back right where they were? AND how come the Cybers could only come through when the doorway was open, but Pete's crew could pop back and forth whenever they wished? Just a case of "too much mass" on the Cybers' part or what? :P

Had a really weird dream last night about a couple of Daleks trying to hide inside some K-9 units. Showing affection to the K-9s made the dogs happy and drove the Daleks insane with anger. LOL! Very very strange...

Reefgirl
July 9th, 2006, 06:56 AM
Rose will be a tough act to follow.
I wonder if the new companion will be introduced in the Christmas ep, or if the Doctor will be alone for it.
According to the BBC Martha will be introduced in the first episode of Season 3/29

ShadowMaat
July 9th, 2006, 07:08 AM
I think I'm glad I don't know who this Tate person is, because just seeing everyone b**** about being "bovvered" is starting to annoy me. At least I'll be able to watch the Christmas ep without any preconceptions.

silverdamascus
July 9th, 2006, 09:45 AM
I've no idea who she is but I still felt resentment when she popped up. With what had just happened and and the tears and then there's this random woman in a wedding dress in the middle of the TARDIS.

I said what the Doctor said but with a slightly different emphasis.

IMForeman
July 9th, 2006, 10:25 AM
Sob! Cry! Wail! (http://www.enigmanaut.com/worldsapart.jpg)

Such a great episode, but such a sad ending.

ShadowMaat
July 9th, 2006, 10:45 AM
I didn't feel any resentment at all, but then, I was ready to move on. *shrug* Methinks the Doctor is going to have his hands full with that one, and I feel a vicious sort of glee at the prospect. It'll be nice to see someone who doesn't hero worship the Doctor. :P

pbellosom
July 9th, 2006, 11:13 AM
I loved that episode, definately one of my favorates. But it still doesn't explain why it "will be the last story [Rose] will ever tell. And why did the Timelords put Daleks in a prison with their transportation machines and guns, surely it would be safer to just imprison the actual Dalek?

silverdamascus
July 9th, 2006, 11:19 AM
Probably a lot easier to throw something in a cell and slam the door than to capture, sedate and find a way to get into it. Quicker too, there were a lot of Daleks in there.

Scoobing
July 9th, 2006, 12:24 PM
I thought I would unleash my own personal thoughts.

I liked the ep, didn't mind the ship, never really have done, but as soon as Rose said "I love you" something twanged and I found myself not seeing the scene as powerful as I did.

I think it would have been SO much better, to leave it at the point where Rose said "I L-"

And choked. I worked out what she was trying to say, everyone knew it, leaving it at that would have been so much more powerful for me. I liked the Doctor not saying it back mind.

Don't get me wrong, I am not against ship or anything, I personally just felt it would have been more powerful had it not been so blatant.

Anyone feel the same/different?

ShadowMaat
July 9th, 2006, 02:29 PM
I agree. She DID choke initially. I wish she'd just looked at him all hopeless and tearful and the Doctor had picked up the cue and said something about "me too" and how utterly brilliant she was, "..and I-" and THEN have him cut out. Makes it a little more ambiguous. He could as easily have been ready to say "I wouldn't trade that for anything" as "I love you" and without it actually being said by anyone... it'd just have made me a bit happier.

I hope they aren't going to ship the Doctor with the new Companion. I've had enough of that for one show, thank you.

Scoobing
July 9th, 2006, 02:38 PM
Yup, totally agree, what you described would have been the perfect scene for me. Ambiguity can be frustrating, but that's what makes it so powerful in the ship world.

Scoobing
July 9th, 2006, 03:19 PM
He could have actually been trying to say, "I am really gonna miss that cornbeef sandwich you used to make every Tuesday...."

:D

Good review!

Flyboy
July 9th, 2006, 03:23 PM
1) Now we know which is the ultimate killing machine in the universe. Those wussy Cybermen didn't have a chance. Maybe the real Cybermen would. Our Cybermen. But those stupid, ugly, fake RTD reboot of Cybermen are wussies. Such big wussies that even the British Military could destroy one...which reminds me....

2) Does the UK even have a military?? As soon as the ghosts pop up, I would put them on the streets as a saftey messure. Any crazy person in charge would. In the meantime, the Cybermen are in people's homes, on the streets, in Starbucks and no one really seems to even be trying to stop them.

It reminds me of Age of Steel, when those faux-Cybermen were entering the house with the President of England, and there was no secret service around to protect him from any threat. I mean, even the Prime Minister of a small island in the middle of the south pacific has a body guard that sticks to him like his shadow, and here are the faux-Cybermen coming through the walls like Kool-Aid man, and no one is even trying to fight back. That's what this episode was pretty much about. The Cybermen have their way with England like Kobe Bryant at a Ramada Inn bar....



I'm trying desperatly hard not to be offended by the comments you made about the British military and the way cybermen must be weak if the British forces can destroy one.

I'd like to give you the benefit of the doubt and hope that no offence was meant.... any elaboration?

Scoobing
July 9th, 2006, 03:34 PM
Well I think all he is getting at is that we didn't see any large-scale response by the military, just some fighting on a bridge somewhere. We did see mass fire's and stuff from the top of canary wharf, but didn't see alot of troops or armor.

I suppose that would have taken some of the heat off the doctor if we had seen them, and the pressure must be on him to keep up the suspence and pace of the story.

I don't think he's having a go at our military, it's just they were never apparently deployed in the ep. We never really saw them.

But I'm sure our stuff can take down cybermen, our army has good stuff...mostly, as long as you don't throw them in sand.. ;)

Easter Lily
July 9th, 2006, 03:54 PM
I have mixed reactions to this one. Not because it wasn't well done but because emotionally it tried to push buttons that I didn't want pushed. I thought David Tennant and Billie Piper were really good in what they had to do but I've become increasingly uncomfortable with the ambiguous romantic nuances throughout S2.

Am I so terrible that I feel relieved that Rose and the Doctor are parted? Romance aside, I'm glad that they wanted to have such a strong female lead so early on but more than once I've felt that Dr Who was becoming the Rose and Doctor show. I realise that the Doctor has always had a wide range of experiences with his companions but until now, I have never felt that anyone of them has "usurped" his place as the impetus on the show. I can guess why they did it... perhaps to help fans transition from Eccleston to Tennant... but I'm more interested in finding out more about the Time War and what that did to the Doctor emotionally than I am about how Rose is burning a candle for the Doctor.

Like Shadow, I'm really looking forward to this new companion... she sounds refreshingly brusque. I've missed the antagonistic companion. I'm not familiar with Christine Tate's previous outings so I'm happy to take her as she comes. I like the way she was introduced... so suddenly... but so typical of Doctor Who. The Doctor always moves on... or is forced to move on by circumstances. Great stuff!

Now, when are we going to see the Face of Boe again?

Scoobing
July 9th, 2006, 04:09 PM
Yes, I would be very interested in finding out more about the Time War, and the Face of Bo's secret etc. That stuff I find really interesting and exciting.

silverdamascus
July 9th, 2006, 04:18 PM
But I'm sure our stuff can take down cybermen, our army has good stuff...mostly, as long as you don't throw them in sand.. ;)

Oh yeah, we're sorted for any conflict...as long as it takes place in Northern Europe. :D

BC - 303
July 9th, 2006, 04:28 PM
Hay dont knock out military, your stuck in the sand to, american!
There was enough going on without a three minute montage of Cybermen VS military battles.
i know people disliked the shippyness, but there ARE shippers who would have gone insane if they didnt have the extra shippyness, it was Roses last episode, let there be limited shippyness.

Easter Lily
July 9th, 2006, 04:43 PM
Yes, I would be very interested in finding out more about the Time War, and the Face of Bo's secret etc. That stuff I find really interesting and exciting.
Well, it's the reason why I watch scifi or in this case, Dr Who... ;)

If I want to watch a good romance, I can watch other things... there are plenty of those around but scifi is scarce by comparison.
I'm not saying ship can't work in scifi (eg. Firefly or BSG) but it's seldom integrated into the storyline properly... usually feels like extraneous baggage.

smurf
July 9th, 2006, 04:48 PM
Small spoiler re: the next companion.

It's not going to be Catherine Tate. It will be a new character played by an actress you've already seen.

Darkseid
July 9th, 2006, 05:19 PM
I'm trying desperatly hard not to be offended by the comments you made about the British military and the way cybermen must be weak if the British forces can destroy one.

I'd like to give you the benefit of the doubt and hope that no offence was meant.... any elaboration?


No offence was ment by that comment. I probably should have worded it a little differently.

The British military is a mean fighting machine. It has been one of the greatest militaries in the world since the end of WWI. They pushed back the Nazi's in Africa, and kept them at bay during their attempted invasion.

As an American, one thing I have always admired about the British and their Military has always had America's back. This is why the British have always been well loved by us Americans. Kind of funny how 200 years ago both our governments would have never guessed the friendships that would be forged between our two nations. It's a good thing that both our countries leaders woke up and realized that we are not each others enemies. Our common enemy is the French!! ;)

On that note, I just found out today that my best friend is coming home on leave from Afganistan later this month....

Darkseid
July 9th, 2006, 05:23 PM
I have mixed reactions to this one. Not because it wasn't well done but because emotionally it tried to push buttons that I didn't want pushed. I thought David Tennant and Billie Piper were really good in what they had to do but I've become increasingly uncomfortable with the ambiguous romantic nuances throughout S2.

Am I so terrible that I feel relieved that Rose and the Doctor are parted? Romance aside, I'm glad that they wanted to have such a strong female lead so early on but more than once I've felt that Dr Who was becoming the Rose and Doctor show. I realise that the Doctor has always had a wide range of experiences with his companions but until now, I have never felt that anyone of them has "usurped" his place as the impetus on the show. I can guess why they did it... perhaps to help fans transition from Eccleston to Tennant... but I'm more interested in finding out more about the Time War and what that did to the Doctor emotionally than I am about how Rose is burning a candle for the Doctor.

Like Shadow, I'm really looking forward to this new companion... she sounds refreshingly brusque. I've missed the antagonistic companion. I'm not familiar with Christine Tate's previous outings so I'm happy to take her as she comes. I like the way she was introduced... so suddenly... but so typical of Doctor Who. The Doctor always moves on... or is forced to move on by circumstances. Great stuff!

Now, when are we going to see the Face of Boe again?

Testify!! Preach on sister!!!

I think Boe may show up next season. Just a feeling....

yaaayoubetcha
July 9th, 2006, 07:18 PM
I rather liked this ep.

I was so hoping that at some point one of the super double secret daleks would shout 'Khaaaaaaaaaaaaan' when Dalek Khan got sucked thru the hole.

Really got a giggle out of the Queer Cyberman for the straight Dalek...'the daleks care nothing for elegance. this is obvious.'

The genesis ark was a pleasant surprise. After all the banter previously about the contents, I'm was happy that it turned out to be a simple prison ship and not some super weapon to turn the tide for the daleks that must then be written to fail or something like that.

I really loved that the transformation of Yvonne had no effect on her. Would love to see her be Torchwood's in house Cyberman, a cameo every now and then. Thought that was a nicely played piece of irony.

Glad to see at least one dalek survived, but hopefully they don't make an appearance next season. They need to take the time to develop new history and adventures (hopefully not earth-centric) for the Doctor.

Hopefully a few cybermen somehow survived as well. I mean hey, as noted, we just saw them get sucked up...but not into the void hole. I'd really love to see a story where proper Cybermen meet Cybus Cybermen.

I'm really quite satisfied with the resolution for Rose. She got to say what many had been dreading and the Doctor was left in ambiguity.

Really looking forward to next season.

Catherine Tate....where is the vomit smiley when you need it. Apparently I won't be heartbroken if I miss the Christmas special.

Flyboy
July 10th, 2006, 01:50 AM
No offence was ment by that comment. I probably should have worded it a little differently.

The British military is a mean fighting machine. It has been one of the greatest militaries in the world since the end of WWI. They pushed back the Nazi's in Africa, and kept them at bay during their attempted invasion.

As an American, one thing I have always admired about the British and their Military has always had America's back. This is why the British have always been well loved by us Americans. Kind of funny how 200 years ago both our governments would have never guessed the friendships that would be forged between our two nations. It's a good thing that both our countries leaders woke up and realized that we are not each others enemies. Our common enemy is the French!! ;)

On that note, I just found out today that my best friend is coming home on leave from Afganistan later this month....
Ok! :) No worries then, sorry, I just get a bit edgy when I think people are insulting our military, I'm rather fond of them :p.

Excellent news on your best mate btw!

Tracy Jane
July 10th, 2006, 02:17 AM
It wasn't so much the military comment that got me (although it did annoy me rather a lot) it was the comment that "the episode fell flat for anyone with more than fourteen brain cells."

ShadowMaat
July 10th, 2006, 04:29 AM
I liked the ep and the last time I checked, I had a LOT more than fourteen active braincells.

Reefgirl
July 10th, 2006, 04:58 AM
Same here, sometimes you just have to suspend your disbelief and enjoy it

benjaminism
July 10th, 2006, 06:47 AM
Yeah more than fourteen braincells and i enjoyed it.

Enemyone
July 10th, 2006, 07:32 AM
I didnt get a chance to watch the program till yesterday when i got off work. It was pretty good. One can tend to over think the obvious though and get worked up over small things. There was no real time to mobilize a large scale attack These Cybermen poped in and took over all at once my problem was there willingness to accept the ghost in the first place. But no bother, still managed to get the point accross that if anything only small battles would take place nothing large scale. besides the doctor took care of most of that rather quickly.

now with the cyber chick "I did my best for Queen and country" the thought i had was what the technician said in Army of Ghost. The bit about having psychic training it might have played a role here.

Gonna miss rose, i dont mind shiping when nothing ever comes of it. I mean come on she couldnt even touch him most likely she will never see him again If she was ever going to say it that was the time. One better she didnt even get to hear it back pretty fitting. Getting worked up over shipping is pretty funny considering when you have two people working together that often, that closely some sort of relationship will develop and with all the shipping in this series you never once saw anything come of it. Its really funny to see how worked up people get over this stuff though I watched two mates yelling at each other over this subject at the end of season 1.

overall 9.5/10 only marking it down slightly becasue come on we had the same villian last season final

Cam_Mitchell
July 10th, 2006, 08:12 AM
Wow that was amazing, i loved the part when the darlek said "it is mearly pest control" hahha made me lmao.


Not sad bout rose going away coz she is back in the christams episode

The Signal
July 10th, 2006, 08:35 AM
Cam, sorry but, she isnt.

As for the "fourteen braincells" thing, I kind of resent that, I hate dumb sci-fi, and Who is one of the most intellegent, Doomsday was no exception IMO. I also hate emotonless sci fi, and so while I think the shippy thing should have been more toned down, it really didnt bother me

Jonzey
July 10th, 2006, 08:48 AM
My first thought about that ending scene was that the Doctor deactivated the link thingy or whatever so he didn't have to say he loved Rose, but left it to Rose to assume that was what he was going to say. Hence the whole build up to it.

But that's just my thought at first, and in the next bit he looked like he was about to say it after the link was cut off. But hey, if you don't like the shippiness just pretend that's what he did. :cool:

Reefgirl
July 10th, 2006, 09:12 AM
The Shippy thing was done to to appease the American market, which is also why it's 45 minutes long and a complete story rather than 4 or 5 30 minute episodes per story. I'm going to regret saying this but name me an American Sci Fi Show where the main male and female charcters DIDN'T ship

Jonzey
July 10th, 2006, 10:04 AM
The Shippy thing was done to to appease the American market, which is also why it's 45 minutes long and a complete story rather than 4 or 5 30 minute episodes per story. I'm going to regret saying this but name me an American Sci Fi Show where the main male and female charcters DIDN'T ship
The 4400. That's the only one I can think of though. It's true that it does happen in pretty much every show I watch.

yaaayoubetcha
July 10th, 2006, 01:07 PM
The Shippy thing was done to to appease the American market, which is also why it's 45 minutes long and a complete story rather than 4 or 5 30 minute episodes per story. I'm going to regret saying this but name me an American Sci Fi Show where the main male and female charcters DIDN'T ship

i really don't think that's the case.

if the beeb took this route without a deal in place (and it did take over a year to get to the US market - made it to Canada first), then that's a really silly business move.

following that thought, then he's destined to have nothing but female companions so he can ship with every companion.

as for american shows with no ships....Andromeda, 4400, the SGs (no need to turn this into an SG ship thread...), ST: DS9...i'm sure there's plenty more out there.

uknesvuinng
July 10th, 2006, 01:24 PM
as for american shows with no ships....Andromeda, 4400, the SGs (no need to turn this into an SG ship thread...), ST: DS9...i'm sure there's plenty more out there.

DS9 had Worf and Jadzia, so I'm not sure it would qualify for the list. TNG and TOS, on the other hand would qualify easily.

The episode was fun, especially the Dalek/Cybermen banter and fighting. Surely the Earth is thoroughly aware of the existence of alien life, now.

The cyber-Yvonne bit seemed unnecessary to me, and without explanation, it felt very out of place. Perhaps if there had been a scene in which she was shown fighting against the programming prior to her last minute day-saving.

I'm assuming all of the cybermen bodies used for the few that were converted over the course of the episode were carried across the void as well, otherwise, there should have been a few cybermen, including Yvonne, still roaming about because they wouldn't have been sucked into the void. Or perhaps the cybermen will also be making a return.

I'm looking forward to the return of the black dalek. Considering his unique nature, I expect that any new batch of Daleks will be a bit different from the previous Daleks.

pbellosom
July 10th, 2006, 01:57 PM
*****SPOILERS AHEAD*****
5) I did like how they wrote Rose off the show. Although I don't understand how Pete Tyler happened to know where Rose would be so he could catch her. That was one lucky catch! I knew that Rose wouldn't die. I knew that the Earth would be fine. I knew they weren't going to rewrite time. All you people who argued with me last week about this can sit in your little computer chair and relish in the fact that I said on this board it wouldn't happen.


Not necessarily, if we consider that when Rose absorbed the time vortex and saw and manipulated time and space then surely she could have fixed it so he arrived on time. It would explain why Pete wasn't immediately sucked into the void when he appeared. He just stood still.

So Rose is now working for Torchwood? How long do you give it till the first spin-off book about this?

ShadowMaat
July 10th, 2006, 02:55 PM
So Rose is now working for Torchwood? How long do you give it till the first spin-off book about this?
Oh, I hope not. I want Torchwood books, but I want them to be about JACK, dammit! Enough with the Cult of Rose! :P

As for the idea of Doctor Who adding ship to pander to the American audiences... I don't think they'd stoop to that level. Ship might have been added at some Suit's request, but I don't think the US market is to blame. At least I hope not. I'd hate to have to carry that taint around with me. ;)

SeaBee
July 10th, 2006, 04:28 PM
Yay!
An excellent episode in so many ways.

The main one being Rose is gone.

Before I get hammered by all the Rose lovers, let me explain.

I am old. Old enough to remember a short black haired Doctor with a recorder doing battle in the London underground with robot yeti in black and white.

I watched from behind the sofa when the daleks and the cybermen came on, safe in the knowledge that they couldn't get me.

The Doctor always had assistants, sometimes two or three at a time, and there were occasional bouts of 'ship, such as when Jo decided she had had enough of travelling with the Doctor and the final scene is the Doctor walking sadly away.

But it was not the central thread of the series and they didn't constantly keep going home to mums for tea and pathos.

The whole show was about meeting strange beings on strange worlds and foiling their dastardly plots in interesting and unexpected ways.

I liked Rose. I thought Billie Piper did an excellent job, and I hope the show is a springboard to even greater things for her.

But the writers preoccupation with Jackie drove me nuts!

So Rose Tyler is no more.

Good, so is Jackie.

Easter Lily
July 10th, 2006, 06:59 PM
My first thought about that ending scene was that the Doctor deactivated the link thingy or whatever so he didn't have to say he loved Rose, but left it to Rose to assume that was what he was going to say. Hence the whole build up to it.

But that's just my thought at first, and in the next bit he looked like he was about to say it after the link was cut off. But hey, if you don't like the shippiness just pretend that's what he did. :cool:
Nice thoughts Jonzey... ;)
But unfortunately I've seen the Confidential and RTD insists that the Doctor and Rose love each other and it isn't the one sided deal that some of us would hope it is.

I'm not against other people enjoying that aspect of the show but I'm a Who traditionalist and I don't care for the Doctor romancing companions... for all the reasons incarnation no. 10 has stated in School Reunion and others.

But enough about "ship" from me...

I did enjoy the rest of episode... the whole Dalek vs. Cybermen face off was good fun...
I wonder what will happen to Yvonne Cyberwoman... Was she already so brainwashed the first time that it was impossible to brainwash her the second time? Is this the first time in the history of the Cybermen that victims are able to fight control?
Now, I seem to remember a classic episode in which there were 2 or 3 half completed cybermen but I don't think that counts as being the same thing.

Night Marshal
July 10th, 2006, 07:06 PM
I like happy endings, well at least in the sence that Rose didn't Die as in aaaaghh. I honestly thought rose was gone and to see pete show up at the last moment as save her was such a happy surpise. the ending was sad but a bit drawn out. I think it was one of the best eps of the new doctor who.

Darkseid
July 10th, 2006, 07:34 PM
Ok, so the Cybermen who came through the void were sent to 'hell'. What about the Cybermen that were converted in our world? Should they still be here????

uknesvuinng
July 10th, 2006, 07:50 PM
I'm assuming all of the cybermen bodies used for the few that were converted over the course of the episode were carried across the void as well, otherwise, there should have been a few cybermen, including Yvonne, still roaming about because they wouldn't have been sucked into the void. Or perhaps the cybermen will also be making a return.

These are my thoughts on the matter.

Darkseid
July 10th, 2006, 08:48 PM
These are my thoughts on the matter.


Or.....

.....the materials used to be made by them came from the other universe, and that's what made them able to be stuck in the void......

yaaayoubetcha
July 10th, 2006, 08:55 PM
*****SPOILERS AHEAD*****


5) I did like how they wrote Rose off the show. Although I don't understand how Pete Tyler happened to know where Rose would be so he could catch her. That was one lucky catch! I knew that Rose wouldn't die. I knew that the Earth would be fine. I knew they weren't going to rewrite time. All you people who argued with me last week about this can sit in your little computer chair and relish in the fact that I said on this board it wouldn't happen.


wow...you're brilliant. you guessed the outcome of a show where the goodguy always wins and mains rarely die.

what's your next trick? gonna fake out a dog by not throwing a stick?

HyperCaz
July 10th, 2006, 09:30 PM
I don't find the ship unneccessary - or at least the friendship. It's what makes Rose human to become that close to the Doctor, even if he didn't reciprocate those feelings. As to the focus on the assistant, any TV producer wants the audience to relate to some of the characters, while leaving the vast majority of the unknown still in the plots.

And wasn't there something between Tom Baker's Doctor and the assistant? Or so I hear told from my parents.

I think 45 minute episodes are essential to tell a complete story. Watching the old 30 minute episodes leaves me feeling as if there should have been just a little bit more.

I guess with this way of getting rid of Rose, it puts her back with Mickey which is how we saw her character at the beginning of the pilot. I'm assuming that eventually, if there was ship between her and the doc, Rose will get back with Mickey, even if she never forgets the doctor.

I'm not saying the Doctor is a homewrecker, but his character certainly distracted Rose from her boyfriend.

Darkseid
July 11th, 2006, 11:02 AM
wow...you're brilliant. you guessed the outcome of a show where the goodguy always wins and mains rarely die.

what's your next trick? gonna fake out a dog by not throwing a stick?


Nope, I don't know any dogs.

I was thinking about trying to confuse the bird at the pet store by repeating words that don't exist so he can repeat them to strangers....

.....or I can just teach him curse words like I have been..........

shipper hannah
July 11th, 2006, 11:53 AM
the ending was so sad!!! :( :( :( :(
it made me cry a little bit- and that's saying something!! i don't even like dr who much!
why did billie have to leave?! *cries*
NOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!! :sheppardanime32:
i'm never watching dr who again now i know she's not coming back! i just know i'll hate the new person now, it doesn't matter how good she is! :sheppardanime32:
*runs away crying*

Willow'sCat
July 11th, 2006, 01:28 PM
And wasn't there something between Tom Baker's Doctor and the assistant? Or so I hear told from my parents. Tom Baker married the actress who played Romana II but that was real life not on the show. ;)

The Doctor should not IMO be romancing his companions, not even Jack! :cool: I find it troublesome for a show that really is aimed at younger people to have a man (actor) in his mid thirtes being shippy with a girl, it feels a little icky to me. And no way were they (characters) ever equals, so that makes it even more dubious in my mind.

HyperCaz
July 11th, 2006, 03:35 PM
Tom Baker married the actress who played Romana II but that was real life not on the show. ;)

The Doctor should not IMO be romancing his companions, not even Jack! :cool: I find it troublesome for a show that really is aimed at younger people to have a man (actor) in his mid thirtes being shippy with a girl, it feels a little icky to me. And no way were they (characters) ever equals, so that makes it even more dubious in my mind.

I must have inherited delusional shipping from them :eek: although I wonder about how they played School Reunion with Sarah Jane and the Doc.

and not forgetting that in canon, the doc is 900 years old (hahaha I see the squick there). I think that in the case of Rose, he must have been expecting as some point to have to leave her because of him living longer.

Mattathias2.0
July 11th, 2006, 05:28 PM
I do recall Davies stating Rose would be in future episodes... so he was telling the truth, as Rose not actually being dead, can appear in future episodes.

Mattathias

Darkstar
July 12th, 2006, 06:17 AM
YAY just poped by to post my view on this episode.

Was a great ending to the second season, the last two episode i think were "fear her" and "love and monsters" was absolutely awful but this episode was brilliant, the acting wasn't hammy as i though it may have been, and the Way it came together in the end was a nice touch, I couldn't think of a better ending for a goodbye without a death so that was nice to have everybody live happily ever after or so to speak, the Daleks were great and witty and chessy as ever and the Cybermen really got a taste of their own medicine.

But the ending with the runnaway bride was.......odd, not an ending i wanted i would have just had the screen fade away but we can't have everything i guess :D

ShadowMaat
July 12th, 2006, 06:23 AM
When have you ever known the universe to sit back and let you sulk about something? ;)

Having the bride pop up like that emphasizes the transitory nature of the show- Doctors and Companions may come and go, but there's always another adventure waiting. And that's really just part of the larger theme of life.

Granted, it might have been interesting to see the Doctor operate alone, but I can't really blame them for rushing to fill the gap, either. And with another transitional character. Focus all the hatred on HER- she'll only be around for an ep or whatever- clears the path for the new Companion.

silverdamascus
July 12th, 2006, 06:50 AM
And with another transitional character. Focus all the hatred on HER- she'll only be around for an ep or whatever- clears the path for the new Companion.

Yup, was pretty smart of them to put in a sort of buffer character in the way. Hopefully that'll take the brunt of any anti backlash off of the new lass.

Pitry
July 14th, 2006, 12:40 PM
I have to admit I'm a bit disappointed. I loved most of the episode, really, really loved it - and tho I guessed the sphere would include the Daleks because I was spoiled about Daleks in the episode, it was still uber-cool. Not to mention the conversation between the Daleks and the Cybermen, priceless!

However... I feel cheated about the end. Not only the entire "This is the story of how I died" only to find out "... officially in my reality" - I owuld have much preferred it to be told in a situation where Rose thinks she's going to die and then be rescued in the last minute. But also... one thing I really loved about CE's Doctor was the egde of the guilt. It wasn't just lonliness - it was guilt. In Dalek he doesn't just hate the Daleks - it's with a passion, because some of that hatred is self hatred - at least that's how I got it, or managed to figure out because I never saw the original Doctor Who. I think they would have done a better job of not just throwing him back to lonilness again, something he can jump straight out off witha new companion - but to have him also deal with the consequences of losing Rose. Since they know Billie Piper isn't coming back, they didn't have to keep Rose alive - and if she did want to come back, it could have been cool for it to be a Rose from a differnet dimension, one who never knew the Doctor.
So all in all, I really felt like they missed it, there.

Other than that... brilliant. Especially hte Bad Wolf refernce in the end, ha!
"Delete!"
"Exterminate!"
;)

Mr Prophet
July 14th, 2006, 01:18 PM
There was no real time to mobilize a large scale attack These Cybermen poped in and took over all at once my problem was there willingness to accept the ghost in the first place.

Plus, they popped up everywhere. Tough to mount a resistance when the armoury is full of Cybermen.

I am glad that we can finally say with confidence who would win in a fight; a Dalek or a Cyberman. Still open on that Dalek vs 50 million Cybermen, but the Daleks definitely win on trash talk.

As for the ending: Never seen The Catherine Tate Show, don't know her work in anything else, didn't find her annoying. As has been said, this is the Doctor's life: Companions come and go, but there are two constants: something is always about to go horrifically tits up and somewhere the tea is getting cold.

Madeleine
July 14th, 2006, 01:38 PM
I'm glad we're unlikely to see rose again soon. I think the arc of her getting ever more attatched - too attatched - over the past series had been good, and then the ending, where she 'dies' was really powerful and I don't want that cheapened.

I'd be rather in favour of her being in it again in ten or fifteen years, like Sarah Jane, just the once. Possibly as an old lady played by someone else even. I'd just like to know that after rose dies, stuff happens to bring her back to life. Mickey, or her job, or the baby sister, whatever. I just find the "this is where I died" combined with the image that Jackie put in my head in Army of Ghosts of how travelling with the doctor was making rose less than what she had been is really bitter. It's good, I like it, but I think that in a decade or two I'll be ready for the image to be sweetened.

Major Clanger
July 15th, 2006, 01:15 AM
The Shippy thing was done to to appease the American market, which is also why it's 45 minutes long and a complete story rather than 4 or 5 30 minute episodes per story. I'm going to regret saying this but name me an American Sci Fi Show where the main male and female charcters DIDN'T ship

*pulls on hard hat and kevlar vest*

Stargate SG-1?

*runs away*

*runs back*

I thought this ep was brilliant. Fantastic. It made me laugh, cry, hide behind the sofa... everything I want from Dr Who. And David Tenant really can act. wow.

*runs away again*

Anquietas
July 18th, 2006, 12:55 AM
excellent episode, my only problem is that the genesis ark only contained loads of daleks, and not davros

Pardon me, but isn’t Davros dead? I mean, dead, dead, not just "as it suits us" dead.

The reference to Skaro, the Kaled home world of previous Doctors is a nice touch as well. I still have to wonder who the Dalek Emperor is. I recall that they killed off the too, and Davros trying to take his place or something, though it's been many years since I've seen the episodes in question.

Anyone have the answers?

Cheers


X|S
~Hallowed are the Ori!~

BC - 303
July 20th, 2006, 01:38 PM
By this time Davros, who had apparently conquered Skaro and reduced his original race of Daleks to the status of renegades, was physically reduced to a head in a customised Dalek casing. Both Skaro and the Imperial Dalek mothership were apparently destroyed by the Seventh Doctor using the Time Lord artifact known as the Hand of Omega. However, a Dalek on the bridge of Davros's ship reported that the Emperor's escape pod was being launched and a white light is seen speeding away from the ship moments before its destruction, leaving a clear route to bring Davros back in the future.
He'll be back
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/1/13/MolloyDavros.jpg/200px-MolloyDavros.jpg

silverdamascus
July 20th, 2006, 04:17 PM
Yeugh, ugly little bugger isn't he. Not greatly knowledgable on the Who-verse but from the sounds of it I'm rooting for the Master to make an appearance. Preferably played by someone sexy. :D The Master sounds like he could be a pretty cool character if they cast him right.

Shallow? I have no idea what you're on about...

ShadowMaat
July 20th, 2006, 09:22 PM
For some reason I keep picturing The Master as looking a lot like Vetinari from the Discworld books. No idea why...

Madeleine
July 21st, 2006, 12:16 PM
Hmm, I always pictured Vetinari as looking like the Master. :)

Must be the goatee.

ShadowMaat
July 21st, 2006, 01:13 PM
Hmm, I always pictured Vetinari as looking like the Master. :)
:P Potayto, potahto. Either way you're right, it's gotta be the goatee. ;)

silverdamascus
July 21st, 2006, 02:15 PM
Pics, people? :D

ShadowMaat
July 21st, 2006, 03:50 PM
Found this pic (http://www.simon-lissaman.com/html/personal_work_13.html) while hunting around. Looks fairly good, although I don't know that Vetinari has ever worn a skullcap like that.

And over on the Discworld casting site (http://ozdw.homes.com.au/couch/vetinari.htm) they even have suggestions on actors who'd be good for the role. I always pictured him as being very thin, though.

Jax
July 21st, 2006, 07:22 PM
And wasn't there something between Tom Baker's Doctor and the assistant? Or so I hear told from my parents.


Romana 2 and the Doctor has to be my favourite ship for the series, much preferred to the Rose/Doctor stuff, even though it isn't as in your face.

Also the actors had quite a bit of say about what went on in the scripts (much to the annoyance of script writers, at least in Toms case). Lalla Ward has said in an interview how the scripts were sometimes so bad that she'd go through them with Tom, rewriting them as they go.

Oh and for a little laugh and insight into how some saw the relationship at the time, go to http://www.dwwa.net/dr4/misc.htm and download the prime computers wav. :D

doylefan22
August 18th, 2006, 04:31 AM
I loved this episode. I haven't always liked Rose in this series as I think she lost a lot of her charm and innocence from the first series - this time round it felt too much like she was joyriding through space. The ending was heartbreaking though - she did love him and as RTD says, he loved her. Personally I have no problem with that. They were never going to get married, get a mortgage and have lots of little time babies (yikes!) but I have no qualms about him having the capacity to love someone. I don't even see it in a sexual attraction away. He just deep down loved her. RTD has said that he wanted to make sure that people were watching the show that normally wouldn't watch sci-fi - namely women and children. The relationship between the Doctor and Rose and having the companion as so important was part of that. I thought it was clever of Russell to have the Doctor say but not say that he loved her - we knew what he meant but he didn't want to explode too many people's heads.

I liked the bride turning up at the end because that's the ethos of the show - companions go but the story goes on. And The Doctor's reaction was priceless.

A couple of other things...People have been saying where was the military, well I think that had a lot to do with budget. The Impossible Planet/Satan Pit sucked up a huge chunk of the budget for the series, factor in all the CGI shots of Daleks and Cybermen and I don't think there'd be much left for hiring military vehicles. Russell always says they have to do a couple of cheap episodes so as to avoid blowing their budget.

And Cyber-Yvonne? (Torchwood spoiler ahead)

Rumour has it she will be in one of the episodes of Torchwood so likely much more will be explained then.

Darkstar
August 22nd, 2006, 03:27 AM
Cyber Yvonne??

Will it be Yvonne or the cyber version, do excuse my ignorance at times but did't she get sucked into the rift with the cybermen and the Daleks, or is the Torchwood series set before then or in a parralel earth???

Im confused :S

uknesvuinng
August 22nd, 2006, 09:03 AM
Cyber Yvonne??

Will it be Yvonne or the cyber version, do excuse my ignorance at times but did't she get sucked into the rift with the cybermen and the Daleks, or is the Torchwood series set before then or in a parralel earth???

Im confused :S
Since Yvonne never travelled to other universes, she would only be sucked in if the material of her cyber body came from the other universe. Otherwise, she's wandering the halls of Torchwood somewhere, muttering about Queen and Country and giving the security guards a fright.

Fate
September 26th, 2006, 02:32 AM
Wouldnt it be great to see an episode where rose meets up with the doctor of her new dimension and they take on the daleks. It would rock if it was an old doctor too.

:mckayanime18:

Willow'sCat
October 7th, 2006, 02:04 AM
RTD has said that he wanted to make sure that people were watching the show that normally wouldn't watch sci-fi - namely women and children. Did he? I kind of find that insulting, I understand most women have a thing for romance but to say we would only really want to watch Doctor Who for the 'relationship' angle is well insulting to those of us who would rather not have that in our shows, scifi or otherwise. I understand it, look at DHW, how that rates is beyond me but it does. :rolleyes: But um... since when don't kids want to watch scifi?!?!?! :S I understand Doctor Who not having the 'cool' buzz about it when it started, I understand ;) but I think this new version has laid that to waste. :)

I didn't mind the shippy stuff, as you said it was never going anywhere, but of course some fans *new fans* wouldn't have known that, some fans still don't understand the regeneration never mind the changing of companions every other season or so.... I think some were shocked.

I am re-watching this ep now, it is screening in Australia I think I have changed my mind about Mickey, I kind of like him now, this new Mickey anyway. The other one, the annoying one LOL I really didn't see a point to him.

Also a question on the Genesis Ark, if it was built by the TimeLords, how come it had little things on the out side that the Daleks could use, they put their plunger thingies on the Ark, it looked built to take the plunger thingies.... *what are they called?*

Just a bit odd, why would the TimeLords make a prison ship for Daleks with an attachment on the outside that Daleks could use? :S

Does anyone know what the music was being played when the Ark opened?

Jax
October 7th, 2006, 05:40 AM
Also a question on the Genesis Ark, if it was built by the TimeLords, how come it had little things on the out side that the Daleks could use, they put their plunger thingies on the Ark, it looked built to take the plunger thingies.... *what are they called?*

Just a bit odd, why would the TimeLords make a prison ship for Daleks with an attachment on the outside that Daleks could use? :S

Does anyone know what the music was being played when the Ark opened?

I'll admit to not being to much of a fan of RTD episodes. He's good at writing character drama, but after that it starts to go down hill. To tell the truth he may not be all that bad at Sci-fi either, it's just he restrains himself far too much in fear of putting viewers off. Atleast that's the opinion I get from the commentaries (his sci-fi explanations are rather cool).

As for the genesis ark, six things say Dalek about it.
1. Dalek boosters underneath (since when have we seen a Time lord ship with boosters).
2. Dalek colour scheme.
3. Daleks controls.
4. Dalek like details, that resemble the Dalek casings.
5. A time traveller resurrecting something via touch has only been seen to involve the Daleks, especially after Roses expo on them.
6. "commence awakening" is a strange thing to say about a Dalek prision.

So, there are three options that I think are possible.

1. Prop department screwed up. Instead of making something original and time lordy they made something Daleky.

2. The genesis ark was originally conceived by RTD as being totally Dalek designed and would have resurrected the Daleks in some overly complicated way. However, whether it's due to Billie Piper leaving forcing him to write an extra scene or the fact it would have "confused the kiddies" to much, he decided to make it something simpler and easier to explain. The change in script though would probably have come after the prop had been built.

3. The Daleks altered the exterior to suit their needs.

Easter Lily
October 7th, 2006, 06:20 AM
The ending was heartbreaking though - she did love him and as RTD says, he loved her. Personally I have no problem with that. They were never going to get married, get a mortgage and have lots of little time babies (yikes!) but I have no qualms about him having the capacity to love someone. I don't even see it in a sexual attraction away. He just deep down loved her. RTD has said that he wanted to make sure that people were watching the show that normally wouldn't watch sci-fi - namely women and children. The relationship between the Doctor and Rose and having the companion as so important was part of that. I thought it was clever of Russell to have the Doctor say but not say that he loved her - we knew what he meant but he didn't want to explode too many people's heads.

That's an odd thing to say on RTD's part anyway... especially about Dr Who when it has never had to rely on overt romance before to grab an audience. I don't think 7 year olds or 8 years old really care about whether Rose or the Doctor have UST. As for the ladies... ;)

I must've been watching Dr Who for all the wrong reasons all these years... I thought it was all about cheesy plots and monsters...
:P

Tamilas Arrondil
October 7th, 2006, 09:52 PM
I'm in Australia, and I just saw the episode last night...

It was an awesome episode in my opinion. The battles were great, It was funny at times, and they sent Rose off brilliantly.

Of course, I felt like crying....lol. It was so so sad!!! Rose has probs been my favourite companion (Her and Sarah Jane) and to see her stranded was just so aweful. I do hope that RTD will find a way to bring her back!!!!

Even if it's in a few seasons time. I just loved the relationship the Doctor and her had. They better not do anything like that between Him and the new companion though...or i'll be very mad.

The doctor belongs to Rose...

But yeah, excellent episode. I really like Yvonne though. I know she was mean and horrible and heartless etc but she was just so cool!

If she wasn't a cyberwoman now...would you want her as a companion......?

IMForeman
October 7th, 2006, 10:07 PM
If she wasn't a cyberwoman now...would you want her as a companion......?

She's no Cyberwoman. This is a Cyberwoman!

(Spoilers for Torchwood)

http://img455.imageshack.us/img455/3043/torchwood25ar3.jpg

-IMF

Mr Prophet
October 8th, 2006, 12:54 AM
Oh, please god no. (Spoilers for Torchwood)Cyberwomen just should not have breasts. The poor girl who didn't want her fiance to see her on the big day didn't have breasts. Cyber-Jackie didn't have breasts. Cyber-Yvonne did not have breasts. Cyberwomen should not have breasts!

Just. Wrong.

The Signal
October 8th, 2006, 03:16 AM
Spoilers throughout for Torchwood...

Oh, please god no. Cyberwomen just should not have breasts. The poor girl who didn't want her fiance to see her on the big day didn't have breasts. Cyber-Jackie didn't have breasts. Cyber-Yvonne did not have breasts. Cyberwomen should not have breasts!

Just. Wrong.
You're assuming That she is an actual cyberwoman, note all that flesh, she's not just the brain and nerves, she's got skin and a face FCOL! If I had to hazard a guess I'd say Torchwood were trying to make their own Cyberpeople (its PC gone nuts I tells ya! :P)

Mr Prophet
October 8th, 2006, 03:28 AM
Spoilers for Torchwood



You're assuming That she is an actual cyberwoman, note all that flesh, she's not just the brain and nerves, she's got skin and a face FCOL! If I had to hazard a guess I'd say Torchwood were trying to make their own Cyberpeople (its PC gone nuts I tells ya! :P)

There is still no need for the cybersports bra and cyberthong. I smell a rat. A rat named 'this is a more grown up show so let's have some boobies'.

The Signal
October 9th, 2006, 11:06 AM
Spoilers for Torchwood




There is still no need for the cybersports bra and cyberthong. I smell a rat. A rat named 'this is a more grown up show so let's have some boobies'.
Hmmm, good point (prays for it not to be "Cooper Syndrome" (I coined that, y'all saw it) Perhaps it has something to do with the man in charge, this is Jack we're talking about ;)

Mr Prophet
October 9th, 2006, 11:40 AM
Hmmm, good point (prays for it not to be "Cooper Syndrome" (I coined that, y'all saw it) Perhaps it has something to do with the man in charge, this is Jack we're talking about ;)

Well, it's not the end of the world and so long as someone comments on it ironically, we may be okay.

lord-anubis
October 30th, 2006, 12:33 AM
i love that frist convo with the cyberman and the dalkes that was great. then the doctor in the middle of it puting on thous 3D glaess.

Annij54
October 31st, 2006, 05:05 PM
14 brain cells! That's not a very nice thing to say is it!!

Doomsday was brilliant - like all the others - and why shouldn't the Doctor have a bit of romance - after 900 years he deserves a bit of female company don't you think??

Flyboy
November 1st, 2006, 10:20 AM
900 years he deserves a bit of female company don't you think??

Not especially, no.

Jax
November 1st, 2006, 05:18 PM
Not especially, no.

Oh I don't know, I quite like the idea of the Doctor having a romantic interest. Just not as a companion (because that dooms it from the start) and most certainly not Rose.

TheUnknown
November 27th, 2006, 01:33 PM
Wouldnt it be great to see an episode where rose meets up with the doctor of her new dimension and they take on the daleks. It would rock if it was an old doctor too.

:mckayanime18:

That's the only thing in the episode that I didn't understand. It's implied in this episode from all the conversations between the Doctor & Rose and the Daleks that the Time Wars stretched through all dimensions, but it's also contradicted in the episode.

Capt.Mal Reynolds
December 22nd, 2006, 07:08 PM
That was bloody awesome. Loved the Dalek/Cyberman name calling. It was such a sad ending up until the point where Cathering Tate appeared and ruined it.

that pretty much sums up how i feel

amamzing epsidoe and a great way to end a season ....very sad ending :(

...but i'm going to miss rose and the doctor being together :mckay:

ShadowMaat
December 22nd, 2006, 07:24 PM
Still found the whole Doctor/Rose cry-fest very tedious and over-long. Ditto the Jackie/Pete reunion. I am so OVER the whole Tyler family.

It was good to see Mickey again, though. And Jake. Love 'em both. :) Loved the ending, too, with the Doctor's utterly flabbergasted "What?!" Only a few more days until I can see how THAT one turned out. Yay! :)

uknesvuinng
December 22nd, 2006, 08:32 PM
Still found the whole Doctor/Rose cry-fest very tedious and over-long. Ditto the Jackie/Pete reunion. I am so OVER the whole Tyler family.

It was good to see Mickey again, though. And Jake. Love 'em both. :) Loved the ending, too, with the Doctor's utterly flabbergasted "What?!" Only a few more days until I can see how THAT one turned out. Yay! :)

Wow. It is getting time for the Christmas special already. Awesome. For some reason it still felt like it was months away.

lord-anubis
December 22nd, 2006, 09:50 PM
i never noiced that the black dalek took the geinse ark with him when he dispeared at least i think it did. im gald scifi deside to show the last two eps together. best part of the all thing which im sure many people have all ready said. was the talk between the daleks and the cybermen i can't wait until the runway bride

MasySyma
December 22nd, 2006, 09:54 PM
It was an amazing episode!

I'm odd. I liked the ship, and while I don't want the Doctor romancing every companion, I didn't mind the I love yous at the end. Rose's selfish issues, which I've whined about often this season, did put her family back together, and I find it funny that Pete and Jackie wasted no time . . .

There were so many positives this week:

1. The Cybermen and Dalek insults. I enjoyed that both groups had vocabularies this time, but I laughed at the metal creature throw down. We now know that Daleks are better at put downs and verbal jousting. :) What's next Shakespeare?

2. The return of beloved characters. I was happy to see Mickey return with his cute sidekick (even if I don't remember his name). I was thrilled to see Pete and the rest of the Rose family join together and form a new bond.

3. The writing for this episode and several this season has been excellent. Doctor 9's Ricky comments make sense now, and at times, it seems like the Doctor knew that this entire sequence had to occur.

4. Ok, I like some ship, just don't get me started about SGA and we're fine. After the melodrama of previous weeks, this was a good ending for the romance.

I have only one complaint:

After all the drama and ship, I wish that the episode had ended with the Doctor alone. He could have met the bride in the next episode. Although, please, any of you who will be seeing 3/29 momentarily, please post lots of pictures and spoilers for us patient fans waiting for any news.

Overall, I enjoyed it. I'm looking forward to the DVD release, and I hope SciFi picks up 3/29 soon.

uknesvuinng
December 22nd, 2006, 09:56 PM
i never noiced that the black dalek took the geinse ark with him when he dispeared at least i think it did. im gald scifi deside to show the last two eps together. best part of the all thing which im sure many people have all ready said. was the talk between the daleks and the cybermen i can't wait until the runway bride

The Genesis Ark went flying into the void with the rest of the Daleks. It was clearly seen doing so.

lord-anubis
December 22nd, 2006, 10:32 PM
i thought i saw it disparing with the black dalek but as i said i could be worng i got to watch the ep again

edit- yeah sorry your right i guess i was just seeing things

Ruined_puzzle
December 23rd, 2006, 12:14 AM
I have only one complaint:

After all the drama and ship, I wish that the episode had ended with the Doctor alone. He could have met the bride in the next episode. Although, please, any of you who will be seeing 3/29 momentarily, please post lots of pictures and spoilers for us patient fans waiting for any news.

Overall, I enjoyed it. I'm looking forward to the DVD release, and I hope SciFi picks up 3/29 soon.

Ah me too but I'm sure they didn't want the kiddies to be all depressed and sad. So they added what I thought was a so not funny scene but hey whatever. I would loved if they ended right after they cut back to the Tardis with The Doctor not saying I love you and crying.

The Signal
December 23rd, 2006, 09:01 AM
30 seconds at the end of this episode is better than 10 minutes trying to set it up in the Christmas special IMO. Thats why that scene at the end it there, and to keep the audience interested over the July-Christmas break of course :)

takinspace
December 23rd, 2006, 09:04 AM
Man I haven't seen this much kvetching in a long time.

Did the folks making a big deal about "I love you" not see that that was going on all along? Heck, it's been pretty out in the open to the audience since at least the ep where Sarah Jane Smith made a guest appearance.

And the folks who wanted Rose whacked *because* of the relationship element, what the heck? I mean, disliking the relationship is ok, but whack the character because of it?

No wait, I get it, Dalek impersonations. Never mind. :)

Rose ticked me off more than once but in S2 both Billie Piper and David Tennant grew on me-- both solid individually and some amazing chemistry between the two. I was consequently *not* happy knowing that she was going to go, and even less happy seeing it.

Bye-bye Rose. And I will *really* miss my weekly Billie Piper fix. :(

And hey, if you think it was becoming the Doctor and Rose show, you just don't appreciate the Doc Man enough. There's no And with The Doc. It's impossible. Go watch some old Doc and catch up. The Doc outshines all. :)

takinspace
December 23rd, 2006, 09:08 AM
Ah me too but I'm sure they didn't want the kiddies to be all depressed and sad. So they added what I thought was a so not funny scene but hey whatever.

The toss-in of that scene was pretty typical of Doctor Who climaxes in my book, going back to beyond the 2005+ incarnation. I tweaked a little about it, but it felt true to the (entire Doctor Who) series.

twiggy
December 23rd, 2006, 09:24 AM
i cried really hard when rose and the doctor had their heads up against the walls. so close, yet so far away.

i really did not like them adding the new girl this way. i thought they should have at least half an episode showing the doctor trying to make it on his own, but then realizing life isn't fun if you can't share it with someone. so then it would make sense that he would find another travelling companion.

full.infinity
December 23rd, 2006, 09:46 AM
The Cybermen's weapon reminded me of the Kull Warriors.

lord-anubis
December 23rd, 2006, 01:15 PM
so then it would make sense that he would find another travelling companion.


i don't know that doesnt sound right the doctor looking for some one to travelling with. it makes more sents that he just runs in to some one who wants to travel with him i mean he dident go looking for rose

MasySyma
December 23rd, 2006, 01:24 PM
i don't know that doesnt sound right the doctor looking for some one to travelling with. it makes more sents that he just runs in to some one who wants to travel with him i mean he dident go looking for rose

I can see your point, but the transistion was too fast for me.

After two hours of tension and several minutes of drama (much weeping from all the major characters), this random woman in a bridal gown was just a bit sudden. I agree with Ruined-Puzzle about the ending. Oh well. I felt bad for the Doctor having to go from weeping for a lost lover to problem solving mode in thirty seconds or less.

Besides, do we know if the bride is the companion or if she represents some kind of problem that leads him to a new companion? Whichever, I'm sure she'll grow on me eventually.

BlueSparks
December 23rd, 2006, 01:38 PM
i cried really hard when rose and the doctor had their heads up against the walls. so close, yet so far away.

i really did not like them adding the new girl this way. i thought they should have at least half an episode showing the doctor trying to make it on his own, but then realizing life isn't fun if you can't share it with someone. so then it would make sense that he would find another travelling companion.
The last doc/rose scene touched me too.

Still found the whole Doctor/Rose cry-fest very tedious and over-long.
Yeah I wish Rose could of said "I love you" earlier, instead of last minute.

It was an amazing episode!

I'm odd. I liked the ship, and while I don't want the Doctor romancing every companion, I didn't mind the I love yous at the end.
You are not alone. I enjoyed Rose/Doc ship too.:)

lord-anubis
December 23rd, 2006, 01:48 PM
I can see your point, but the transistion was too fast for me.

Besides, do we know if the bride is the companion or if she represents some kind of problem that leads him to a new companion? Whichever, I'm sure she'll grow on me eventually.

no shes not the companion she just in the one ep we won't see the new companion until the next season. i all ready know whos the new companion is but im sure you don't want spoilers

The Signal
December 23rd, 2006, 04:09 PM
I felt bad for the Doctor having to go from weeping for a lost lover to problem solving mode in thirty seconds or less.

Thats kind of who he is though, even when he wasnt the last of the Time Lords, if something went wrong, it was always him, because the others wouldn't get involved in anything outside of their own affairs. Even when it was involving them, it was still him who had to save the world, because whether they liked him or not he was the best for the job, as shown in the climax of The Five Doctors. He never gets the chance to reflect, to mourn, to feel sorry for himslelf, he carries a burden like no other which prevents him from it, and that's almost certainly never going to change.

Tiny, companion related spoilers that are already posted in hereAs for The Bride, she's in The Runaway Bride (43 hours to go!!!!) and then the new companion will arrive in Series 3/29's premiere. I'd personally like a non-companion episode, just the Doctor, alone, ala Deadly Assasin, but it took years for them to build up the courage to do that way back when, so I'm not holding my breath :D

Capt.Mal Reynolds
December 23rd, 2006, 05:13 PM
i'm going to miss rose and the doctor :(

i re watching the episode can't you tell

MasySyma
December 23rd, 2006, 06:56 PM
Thats kind of who he is though, even when he wasnt the last of the Time Lords, if something went wrong, it was always him, because the others wouldn't get involved in anything outside of their own affairs. Even when it was involving them, it was still him who had to save the world, because whether they liked him or not he was the best for the job, as shown in the climax of The Five Doctors. He never gets the chance to reflect, to mourn, to feel sorry for himslelf, he carries a burden like no other which prevents him from it, and that's almost certainly never going to change.

Tiny, companion related spoilers that are already posted in hereAs for The Bride, she's in The Runaway Bride (43 hours to go!!!!) and then the new companion will arrive in Series 3/29's premiere. I'd personally like a non-companion episode, just the Doctor, alone, ala Deadly Assasin, but it took years for them to build up the courage to do that way back when, so I'm not holding my breath :D

Yes, and I understand your point, but I wanted five minutes of closure. I agree that it would not be fun to watch thirteen episodes of the Doctor musing "Why Me?" I just wanted him to find the bride the next morning or after lunch. The guy needed a good cry not some confused lady in white.

Oh well. :)

Thank you for the spoilers, and as far as I am concerned, spoil away. I will happily look in the tags for series 3/29 info.

Col. Shadow Quinn
December 23rd, 2006, 07:47 PM
The Daleks vs. Cybermen was funny IMHO.

twiggy
December 24th, 2006, 07:33 PM
i don't know that doesnt sound right the doctor looking for some one to travelling with. it makes more sents that he just runs in to some one who wants to travel with him i mean he dident go looking for rose

i didn't mean that he would go looking for one, i just meant that we the viewers would then be able to see how him being alone makes him lonely. so then it would make sense for us that the writers would make a new travelling companion for him (no matter what way they add this new character).

Col. Shadow Quinn
December 26th, 2006, 02:00 AM
It was funny as an episode because of the Daleks vs. Cybermen.

Ravenessa
December 26th, 2006, 09:59 PM
I think this was a sad episode, because I loved Rose and the Doctor. It's really sad to see Rose go. =( I cried. Heh...

Mr Prophet
December 27th, 2006, 06:09 AM
1. The Cybermen and Dalek insults. I enjoyed that both groups had vocabularies this time, but I laughed at the metal creature throw down. We now know that Daleks are better at put downs and verbal jousting. :) What's next Shakespeare?

http://www.doctorwho.co.uk/drwho_main/bf032_timeofthedalek.shtml

ETA: Nads. That page doesn't have the proper synopsis and is therefore meaningless. What it should say is:

The Doctor has always admired the work of William Shakespeare. So he is a little surprised that Charley doesn't hold the galaxy's greatest playwright in the same esteem. In fact, she's never heard of him.

Which the Doctor thinks is quite improbable.

General Mariah Learman, ruling Britain after the Eurowars, is one of Shakespeare's greatest admirers, and is convinced her time machine will enable her to see the plays' original performances.

Which the Doctor believes is extremely unlikely.

The Daleks just want to help. They want Learman to get her time machine working. They want Charley to appreciate the first ever performance of Julius Caesar. They believe that Shakespeare is the greatest playwright ever to have existed and venerate his memory.

Which the Doctor knows is utterly impossible.

Kingomon
January 5th, 2007, 07:21 AM
Cybermen vs. Darleks
more like
Darleks killing the Cybermen.

The 4 didn't need the army. They could have taken out the Cybermen all by themself.

I love the Scene when the Darleks and Cybermen first encounter each other.
Darlek: Identiffy yourself
Cyberman- Identiffy yourself
It was not going to end.

ShadowMaat
January 5th, 2007, 07:56 AM
It's Da-lek. Please. There's no r in Dalek.

Cybermen have better snarks (for the most part) but yeah, the Daleks are better at killing. ;)

teal'c2006
February 16th, 2007, 05:03 PM
Was a great episode, but it was very sad to see rose go I cried when they said there goodbye's. I enjoyed the episode very much.

Mr Prophet
February 16th, 2007, 11:54 PM
Yes, and I understand your point, but I wanted five minutes of closure. I agree that it would not be fun to watch thirteen episodes of the Doctor musing "Why Me?" I just wanted him to find the bride the next morning or after lunch. The guy needed a good cry not some confused lady in white.

While it's been a while since this was posted, I felt I had to say that while you or I might be the better for a good cry, it seems to me that the Doctor's grieving process is such that some confused lady in white is definitely the better thing for him.

MasySyma
March 30th, 2007, 09:17 PM
Ok, it me forever to reply too. ;)

I've been able to rewatch Doomsday several times now, and while I can accept the ending, I still think the Doctor is asked to move too fast.

If anything, this constant high-stakes change will lead to his rejection of his travel and rescue the universe lifestyle if the spoilers for Human Nature are to be believed.

In reality, people constantly forced to give their all burnout, and the ending of Doomsday day does not bode well for the Doctor. He will not be the lovable Doctor from the Christmas Invasion and may start channeling his darker, moodier 9th incarnation (something I can stand and even enjoy but don't always miss).

I'll be curious to see if my view changes once I've seen the Runaway Bride and the new series. I didn't like the end of Series 27 until I realized that I like the 10th Doctor better than the 9th. Now, I enjoy the drama of the regeneration and the humor of the Doctor's personality change. We'll have to see. ;)

Tenth_Regent
July 23rd, 2007, 07:32 PM
I'm sorry to come so late to this discussion/review -- I'm sure many earlier posters have long since forgotten about this thread -- but having only just finished the season 2 DVDs, it's all quite fresh to me. Given that I'm not a terribly serious Doctor Who fan (having dropped off at Peter Davidson; in fact, it was only my local PBS station broadcasting the newer stuff [the new season 1] that got me, eventually, back into the Doctor Who universe), I nonetheless think this was a significant and appropriate end to the season. It may be that things were a little over-long or over-wrought at points, but I think it was still quite warranted for the Doctor to shed a tear or two.

This is how I see it (acknowledging up front that there may be filler events in the twenty or so years since I last watched that may contradict this): Rose was the first significant companion for the Doctor since the last Time War (my assumption being that the Time War occurred in the 15 years DW was off the air, books and audio notwithstanding). This was a changed Doctor from earlier times, and when he encountered such a compatible spirit -- often described by Russell T Davies during the first series as "the Doctor's equal, if not, in some areas, his better" -- it is understandable that he could have a greater emotional attachment.

Then, after two (TV time) years of gallivanting across the universe, the two are separated by forces beyond either's control. I can see how the Doctor might be distraught to the point of some tears at the loss of such an in-sync companion: after the loss of his people, finally finding someone who "gets" him -- particularly after taking in the time vortex in "Parting of the ways" -- only to have the loneliness facing him again when that someone is gone with the likelihood of never being heard from again. Perhaps the 9th Doctor wouldn't have shed a tear -- CE's portrayal was that of the hurt, closed-off Doctor still wandering time -- but DT's Doctor was warmer and more open (again, perhaps because of events in "Parting"). And, of course, Rose was utterly devoted to the Doctor, throughout both series; tears would have been there even without the "I love you" admission.

I recall one companion departure from years ago: Tom Baker's Doctor was summoned to Gallifrey and had to drop off his companion (I don't recall who; I just remember some of the dialog) before going on. That Doctor was morose at the parting, and he wasn't even the last Time Lord at that point. Heck, maybe he even got a little misty; who can say? Nevertheless, it shows that even back then the Doctor became attached to the people he traveled with, and as others had said, love can have multiple forms. Given his involvement in and guilt (survivor's or otherwise) following the last Time War, if Rose truly was an equal spirit, then he could have felt the loss more keenly than at other times in his life. Isn't that worth a tear?

All told, I did find it to be a very moving and significant episode. I don't know how the third series will play out -- after all, with the departure of Rose and her extended family, the writers had the ability to start from scratch -- but I do imagine that filling Rose's shoes was something of a challenge. (Posts elsewhere suggest that they did find some combination that works; I guess I'll just have to wait awhile and see.)

General David Niemi
July 24th, 2007, 07:23 AM
A great ep! Daleks, Cybermen and even the doctor! ;)

Alipeeps
July 24th, 2007, 05:02 PM
I recall one companion departure from years ago: Tom Baker's Doctor was summoned to Gallifrey and had to drop off his companion (I don't recall who; I just remember some of the dialog) before going on. That Doctor was morose at the parting, and he wasn't even the last Time Lord at that point. Heck, maybe he even got a little misty; who can say? Nevertheless, it shows that even back then the Doctor became attached to the people he traveled with, and as others had said, love can have multiple forms.

I believe that was in fact Sarah Jane Smith... the previous companion who returned in season 28's School Reunion episode. :)

Tenth_Regent
July 25th, 2007, 10:28 AM
I believe that was in fact Sarah Jane Smith... the previous companion who returned in season 28's School Reunion episode. :)

I thought it might be, but wasn't certain. I remember that she was dropped off in the wrong place, which was a line in "School Reunion." But given the way the TARDIS works, that almost could have been anyone... ;)

General David Niemi
September 3rd, 2007, 07:04 PM
Doomsday is a great ep. Battles and lots of cool stuff. :D

RosieC
October 19th, 2007, 03:50 PM
Oh God, Doomsday - I haven't watched it properly since it aired! It's too sad!

I set up a petition to reunite the Doctor and Rose, please sign if you agree:

http://petitiononline.com/rosie111

Coco Pops
May 12th, 2008, 04:12 AM
Ooops these are not proper Who Cybermen but Cybermen made by humans on a parallel Earth. The proper ones from Mondas might have stood a chance and adapted to the Daleks.

Yvonne Hartman you are a joke. Who put this woman in charge of Torchwood? She's a joke with her happy clappy cheery attitude. It was like she was on some kind of happy pill.s

And what's with the whole "for the empire stuff" did they brainwash that into her before she took the job?

But I did like this incarnaton of Torchwood far more then the Torchwood TV series. it looked cleaner and more professional kinda. Despite the fact I do like the series itself and all the characters. I just liked the look of this Torchwood.

Howcome they had to move into squalled underground tunnels in the new show. The Torchwood Tower didn't get knocked over or destroyed. Surely Jack and Co. could have set up shop in the old building?

Raven56
May 12th, 2008, 06:34 AM
....
Howcome they had to move into squalled underground tunnels in the new show. The Torchwood Tower didn't get knocked over or destroyed. Surely Jack and Co. could have set up shop in the old building?
Goodness, I've never heard tunnels squall! How loud is it?
Sorry, couldn't resist. Sometimes typos just give me the weirdest mental images..:o

They could have set up in London, I suppose, but Torchwood Three was already set up at the Rift in Cardiff, Wales. London is too far away to watch over it.

They would have had to set up another group in Cardiff to track the Rift activity, then move themselves to London, and that would have meant Torchwood could have gotten really big again, and it could have gotten out of control.

Coco Pops
May 12th, 2008, 07:07 AM
Goodness, I've never heard tunnels squall! How loud is it?
Sorry, couldn't resist. Sometimes typos just give me the weirdest mental images..:o

They could have set up in London, I suppose, but Torchwood Three was already set up at the Rift in Cardiff, Wales. London is too far away to watch over it.

They would have had to set up another group in Cardiff to track the Rift activity, then move themselves to London, and that would have meant Torchwood could have gotten really big again, and it could have gotten out of control.



Ah, good point. Yeah squalid was the word I was looking for damn typos :)

Yeah it it got too big it could get out of hand again. The first series though doesn't really set up how Jack came to be in charge. He's not in charge of the whole of Torchwood I know but just that group isn't it?

And I hope he got them to remove the Doctor from "enemy status" as there are other Torchwood groups out there.

Raven56
May 12th, 2008, 12:54 PM
Ah, good point. Yeah squalid was the word I was looking for damn typos :)

Yeah it it got too big it could get out of hand again. The first series though doesn't really set up how Jack came to be in charge. He's not in charge of the whole of Torchwood I know but just that group isn't it?

And I hope he got them to remove the Doctor from "enemy status" as there are other Torchwood groups out there.

Exactly. In "The Sound of Drums" Jack
tells the Doctor that after the battle of Canary Wharf, he rebuilt Torchwood as a small group, to help the human race, and he did it in the Doctor's honor. So, they're no longer hunting him down. At least, unless there are some renegades out there, anyway :)

Coco Pops
May 12th, 2008, 02:21 PM
Exactly. In "The Sound of Drums" Jack
tells the Doctor that after the battle of Canary Wharf, he rebuilt Torchwood as a small group, to help the human race, and he did it in the Doctor's honor. So, they're no longer hunting him down. At least, unless there are some renegades out there, anyway :)



But that's the point. Aren't there other groups of Torchwood? Jack doesn't speak for the whole of Torchwood does he? I thought he only represented that particular group in Cardiff.

ShadowMaat
May 12th, 2008, 03:21 PM
But that's the point. Aren't there other groups of Torchwood? Jack doesn't speak for the whole of Torchwood does he? I thought he only represented that particular group in Cardiff.

He does, but the London group is basically gone and hasn't (as far as I know) been rebuilt, one Hub is missing and the other one is run by some humorless guy. Jack said all this in an ep of Torchwood, I just can't remember the specific explanation. Yes, he does only represent the Cardiff Torchwood, but for general purposes the Cardiff hub is the only one that exists. Or if there are others I don't think they're aware of what's going on in Cardiff.

uknesvuinng
May 12th, 2008, 04:01 PM
The simple reason why Jack kept his Torchwood in Cardiff is the rift. He was waiting there for the Doctor to eventually return. It'd be a bit difficult to catch the Doctor in Cardiff if he's hanging around in London.

As for the rest of Torchwood, he's apparently in charge of it all. From the various discussions, it seems he took over all of Torchwood (he was already in charge of Cardiff) when Canary Wharf got destroyed. The Cardiff hub has all the dealings with UNIT and I think they mentioned some government paperwork at some point, so it seems to me that he's very much the head of all of Torchwood, not just Cardiff.

Mr Prophet
May 13th, 2008, 05:58 AM
He does, but the London group is basically gone and hasn't (as far as I know) been rebuilt, one Hub is missing and the other one is run by some humorless guy.

Is he humourless or just 'odd'?

Coco Pops
May 13th, 2008, 06:51 AM
Is he humourless or just 'odd'?

or an Ood? :)

"There's something odd about the ood"

Well someone on the show said that and it was funny :)

Coco Pops
May 14th, 2008, 08:56 AM
Loved the episode the Cybermen and Dalek banter was hilarious and i personally expected that response from the Daleks about that alliance. I felt sorry for the Cybermen because they could not come up with that type of humour that the Daleks were employing :p even though it was a nasty type of humour. Not surprised that the Cybermen got massacred since Dalek tech is wayyy more advanced then humans and thought that the Cybermen had an advantage in numbers which disappeared once the Ark was opened.


But had these been the proper Cybermen from Mondas and not ones made by humans I think they might have stood a proper chance, and maybe even adapted to the Dalek guns.




As for yvone, well perhaps the cyber conversion process was not complete. Or it could be intense emotion and a 'mind over matter' type thing because in the Tomb of the Cybermen one person was cyber converted and he 'overcame' his programming to fight against the beings that turned him into a 'monster'.


All that "queen and country" stuff drove me nuts. Patriotism has its limits or was she brainwashed into that when she was inducted into this incarnation of Torchwood.

Ever so glad Jack took over.

I think because her armour is from void material she would have been pulled into the void. Just my thoughts.



Also I was surprised that the Genesis Ark was a prison, I personally thought it was some kind of weapon that would turn Earth into mutants so they could be turned into Daleks or something like that (as the Dalek Emperor did). Guess it was the Genesis in the name that made me think that :p I agree with Mr. Clark also about the shape. It was a prison FOR Daleks not just a prison because think about it...if the Time Lords put anyone else in there then they would have been EX-TER-MINATED!



I'm wondering why the Time Lords made something that looked like a Dalek and ss some others have said. Maybe the Daleks adapted it.

But how on Earth did they get their hands on it. Shouldn't the Ark have been hidden away somewhere, where no one could find it?

Anyway just my 2cents worth on this wonderful episode

And I loved all the shippyness.

Coco Pops
May 14th, 2008, 08:58 AM
I loved that episode, definately one of my favorates. But it still doesn't explain why it "will be the last story [Rose] will ever tell. And why did the Timelords put Daleks in a prison with their transportation machines and guns, surely it would be safer to just imprison the actual Dalek?



More to the point, how did the Timelords manage to get 4 million of them to get inside the Ark.

Raven56
May 14th, 2008, 09:29 AM
I'm wondering why the Time Lords made something that looked like a Dalek as some others have said. Maybe the Daleks adapted it.
Perhaps they made it look like a Dalek as a visual cue as to what was in it - like a hatbox?


More to the point, how did the Timelords manage to get 4 million of them to get inside the Ark.

:lol: Bigger on the inside, I guess...... ;)

Coco Pops
May 14th, 2008, 07:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coco Pops http://forum.gateworld.net/images/gw_buttons/viewpost.gif (http://forum.gateworld.net/showthread.php?p=8232003#post8232003)
I'm wondering why the Time Lords made something that looked like a Dalek as some others have said. Maybe the Daleks adapted it.





Perhaps they made it look like a Dalek as a visual cue as to what was in it - like a hatbox?



Quote:
Originally Posted by Coco Pops http://forum.gateworld.net/images/gw_buttons/viewpost.gif (http://forum.gateworld.net/showthread.php?p=8232016#post8232016)
More to the point, how did the Timelords manage to get 4 million of them to get inside the Ark.





:lol: Bigger on the inside, I guess...... ;)




No I mean how did they get them to go into the Ark? You don't just tell a Dalek "you must go in there"

Mr Prophet
May 15th, 2008, 09:15 AM
No I mean how did they get them to go into the Ark? You don't just tell a Dalek "you must go in there"

The put a sign on the front that said: "Free beer."

Sure, so the contents of the Genesis Ark weren't the broadest plungers in the pan, but 4 million Daleks is 4 million Daleks.

ShadowMaat
May 15th, 2008, 10:16 AM
http://www.csc.liv.ac.uk/~blacoe/Images/CatFud.jpg

Replace the dryer with the Ark and change the signs to "Exterminate humans, this way!" and soon you'll have yourself an Ark full of Daleks. ;)

Raven56
May 15th, 2008, 12:31 PM
http://www.csc.liv.ac.uk/~blacoe/Images/CatFud.jpg

Replace the dryer with the Ark and change the signs to "Exterminate humans, this way!" and soon you'll have yourself an Ark full of Daleks. ;)

BRILLIANT!!!!!! :lol:

Coco Pops
May 15th, 2008, 02:29 PM
http://www.csc.liv.ac.uk/~blacoe/Images/CatFud.jpg

Replace the dryer with the Ark and change the signs to "Exterminate humans, this way!" and soon you'll have yourself an Ark full of Daleks. ;)



Hehe that works. But I still have a hard time watching that episode and thinking how on Earth Timelords got them to go in there - Unless they somehow managed to beam the Daleks into the Ark, or made the Ark itself hunt down and capture Daleks.

ShadowMaat
May 15th, 2008, 06:53 PM
I just figured they had some way to temporarily disable the Daleks or contain them in a force bubble or something similar. Or maybe it DOES act like some kind of free-ranging Dalek vacuum, zipping around the universe, sucking up Daleks and unfortunate dust bunnies.

Gate-builder
May 15th, 2008, 08:32 PM
I want to know why the TARDIS didn't get sucked into the void along with everything else.

Coco Pops
May 15th, 2008, 09:17 PM
I want to know why the TARDIS didn't get sucked into the void along with everything else.



Why would it? It came from our universe, not the other one?


I also think (and have said in another thread) tha events in "Father's Day" Possibly created the universe that they visited because as the Doctor said in I think "Army Of Ghosts" our actions create other universes.

uknesvuinng
May 15th, 2008, 09:31 PM
Why would it? It came from our universe, not the other one?

For the same reason that the Doctor and Rose had to hold on for dear life even though they too were from our universe (as were the Daleks from the voidship). The vortex was going to pull in everything that had passed from one universe to the other. I think the TARDIS not going is a plot hole, unless I missed some explanation about how it stayed.

ShadowMaat
May 15th, 2008, 10:28 PM
Maybe the TARDIS didn't want to go. :P

Yeah, I know people have been able to "call" the TARDIS before and outside forces have had their influences on her, but I'm still inclined to say that if the TARDIS wanted to stay, she'd stay.

Now, if the Doctor had gotten somehow sucked into the Void, it might be interesting to see if the TARDIS followed him. ;) Dunno just how far the TARDIS's loyalty/connection to the Doctor goes. Might still stay put and wait for the next Time Lord to come along. LOL

Coco Pops
May 15th, 2008, 10:40 PM
Maybe the TARDIS didn't want to go. :P

Yeah, I know people have been able to "call" the TARDIS before and outside forces have had their influences on her, but I'm still inclined to say that if the TARDIS wanted to stay, she'd stay.

Now, if the Doctor had gotten somehow sucked into the Void, it might be interesting to see if the TARDIS followed him. ;) Dunno just how far the TARDIS's loyalty/connection to the Doctor goes. Might still stay put and wait for the next Time Lord to come along. LOL


Well then she'd be a bit of a two timer then wouldn't she :p

Mr Prophet
May 16th, 2008, 08:57 AM
Yeah, I think the explanation is pretty much: "TARDIS".

ShadowMaat
May 16th, 2008, 06:52 PM
Well then she'd be a bit of a two timer then wouldn't she :p

I dare you to say that to her... er... face... thingy. :P

Mr Prophet
May 17th, 2008, 12:56 AM
I think it's certainly extended universe canon that TARDISes go off somewhere and expire gracefully when their Time Lord dies. It's all to do with the isomorphic link and the telepathic bond; very sweet really.

Coco Pops
May 17th, 2008, 02:17 AM
I think it's certainly extended universe canon that TARDISes go off somewhere and expire gracefully when their Time Lord dies. It's all to do with the isomorphic link and the telepathic bond; very sweet really.


A bit like the Vorlon ships in Babylon 5, but I always got the impression we never knew whether it was Kosh in the suit as the real Vorlon or the ship itself.

Pharaoh Atem
April 18th, 2009, 08:24 PM
just finished watching this ep and I'm balling my eyes out Billie piper is amazing and really sold the "take me back" after her father saved her from the void

epic win :)

cass

gateship15
April 19th, 2009, 04:14 AM
this is a fantastic episode and i agree i bought Billie piper as roses emotion in this episode she is a great actor.

Ishay
April 22nd, 2009, 08:30 PM
this is a fantastic episode and i agree i bought Billie piper as roses emotion in this episode she is a great actor.

the passion she showed wanting to go back to the doctor was amazing she really lost her best friend :(

gateship15
April 23rd, 2009, 04:17 AM
i agree

Cold Fuzz
January 31st, 2010, 04:21 PM
Brilliant episode. The exchange between the Daleks and Cybermen was hilarious.

"Daleks have no sense of elegance."
"Obviously."

"You are superior in only one aspect."
"And what is that?"
"You are better at dying."

"This isn't war. This is pest control."

And of course, Rose & the Doctor parting ways was...:sheppardanime32:

gateship15
January 31st, 2010, 07:11 PM
i love this episode. cyberman and Daleks fighting to take over earth

i found the parting of rose and the doctor very very sad

Coco Pops
January 31st, 2010, 07:58 PM
I found the parting of Doctor and Rose a blessing, then they brought her back again and the Doctor's running up to her like a giddy schoolboy and get shot by a Dalek....

gateship15
January 31st, 2010, 10:01 PM
it was cute to see them run like in one of those olds romantic movies only for him to get shot a fantastic seen.

Gamma626
October 25th, 2010, 10:41 AM
Brilliant end to the series.

WingedPegasus
December 23rd, 2010, 01:29 AM
Brilliant episode. The exchange between the Daleks and Cybermen was hilarious.

"Daleks have no sense of elegance."
"Obviously."

"You are superior in only one aspect."
"And what is that?"
"You are better at dying."

"This isn't war. This is pest control."

And of course, Rose & the Doctor parting ways was...:sheppardanime32:

Well, I really can't say that any better. :P This is essentially what I was going to post on the episode.

The dialogue between the Cybermen and the Daleks kept cracking me up, too. :D

Pharaoh Atem
June 12th, 2011, 12:14 PM
I will always love the pest control lineb

juggernaut975
August 9th, 2011, 02:53 PM
Read somewhere that this story marks the first time that the Daleks and Cybermen have ever interacted on screen together. There have been other episodes where both have shown up (The Five Doctors for instance) but this is the first time they've ever encountered each other on screen.

Which is strange seeing how such a brilliant match up this is...

iJOKE
April 12th, 2012, 10:24 PM
There is a few things about the episode i am not sure about:

1)since Rose is in the parallel world.. cant the doctor ever come back to see her? I mean Mickey crossed to the world.. so cant she?
2) Why when Rose was sucked in to the other world the Doctor was worried about her? (that sounds strange i know) But earlier didnt the Doctor want Rose to leave in the first place? 3) Is the reason why Billie Piper left because of the typecast fear? Or was she just cut off?


Overall 10/10
I am scared to watch it again because i will cry again

maneth
July 3rd, 2012, 09:04 AM
Cool episode! Great end to Rose's arc. The preview of the next episode already pretty much convinced me that I won't like Catherine Tate's character at all... I hope I'm wrong!

maneth
August 13th, 2014, 09:54 AM
I liked this ep just as much this time.