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GateWorld
April 14th, 2006, 01:28 PM
<DIV ALIGN=CENTER><TABLE WIDTH=450 BORDER=0 CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=7><TR><TD STYLE="border:0;"><DIV ALIGN=LEFT><FONT FACE="Arial" SIZE=2 COLOR="#000000"><A HREF="http://www.scifistream.com/doctor-who/s2/"><IMG SRC="http://www.scifistream.com/wp-content/uploads/212.jpg" WIDTH=160 HEIGHT=120 ALIGN=RIGHT HSPACE=10 VSPACE=2 BORDER=0 STYLE="border:1px solid #000;" ALT="Visit the Episode Guide"></A><FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#888888">DOCTOR WHO SERIES 28</FONT>
<FONT SIZE=4><A HREF="http://www.scifistream.com/doctor-who/s2/" STYLE="text-decoration: none">ARMY OF GHOSTS</A></FONT>
<FONT SIZE=1>EPISODE NUMBER - 2812</FONT>
<IMG SRC="/images/clear.gif" WIDTH=1 HEIGHT=10 ALT="">
Rose and the Doctor return to Earth to find that millions of ghosts now regularly appear all over the world, thanks to a mysterious sphere and the Torchwood Institute's dangerous experiments.

<FONT SIZE=1><B><A HREF="http://www.scifistream.com/doctor-who/s2/">VISIT THE EPISODE GUIDE >></A></B></FONT></FONT></DIV></TD></TR></TABLE></DIV>

BC - 303
June 26th, 2006, 02:45 PM
OK so, everyone watch this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-pB6p...%20of%20ghosts
and the trailer for Army of ghosts on the BBC site (http://www.bbc.co.uk/mediaselector/check/doctorwho/ram/tardisode12?size=16x9&bgc=CC0000&nbram=1&bbram=1&bbwm=1&nbwm=1 , then click Videos, it is a tiny bit different, well only the fact that the doctor says "this world is colliding with another, and i think i know which one). And the TARDISODE.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/mediaselector/check/doctorwho/ram/tardisode12?size=16x9&bgc=CC0000&nbram=1&bbram=1&bbwm=1&nbwm=1
All done?

Ok now discuss.
Ok First of all, the time space fault line runs through Cardif, where the Torchwood Institute is apparently going to be based. However in the trailer, the Ghosts appered in London, with Big Ben in the backround.
Also, notise the Dalek gun and shooting noise.
And, (this is the extreem spoiler)
http://img148.imagevenue.com/img.php?loc=loc80&image=77110_AogTrail19.jpg
Isnt that Pete Tyler, Mickey smith, and Jake?

Metarock Sam
June 27th, 2006, 05:17 AM
We already have a thread for this its here.
http://forum.gateworld.net/showthread.php?t=29597

BC - 303
June 28th, 2006, 06:30 AM
darn it

The Signal
July 1st, 2006, 12:40 PM
Okay, loved most of it, there were some iffy moments, but it was pretty good really. Loved the black Dalek at the end. Loved having Mickey back.


I will post more later. But rating 10/10, I've bumped it up a little, it deserves full marks.

Am I the only one that thinks that Rose isnt going to die, it just seems too obvious IMO

Egeria
July 1st, 2006, 12:49 PM
I loved it, still hyper from it to be honest. I'll post more later but just wanted to say I agree with you Ptah, I don't think Rose dies, not physically anyway.

Wraith Scientist
July 1st, 2006, 12:49 PM
Wow. That was such an exciting ep! Amazing

ROSE: Doctor, they have guns
DOCTOR: And I don't, which makes me the better person. They can shoot me dead but I'll have the moral high ground

in circles
July 1st, 2006, 12:51 PM
That was an awesome episode and next week can only be better. I can't help but think it would have been even better if I hadn't been spoiled with the ending. Derek Acorah making an appearance was funny.

iLemon
July 1st, 2006, 12:57 PM
I loved this episode! One of the best IMO, Cybermen and Daleks in the same ep, what more could you want? And the ending was great too! Cant wait for next weeks episode :D

The Signal
July 1st, 2006, 01:03 PM
ROSE: Doctor, they have guns
DOCTOR: And I don't, which makes me the better person. They can shoot me dead but I'll have the moral high ground
That is by far my favourite quote of the episode, and possibly the season, a classic Doctor comment that.

Commander Ivanova
July 1st, 2006, 01:03 PM
Aaargh. Completely missed this ep due to an excess of sport on TV today, does anyone know - where do I go to read a transcript or summary?

iLemon
July 1st, 2006, 01:05 PM
^ there's a repeat on tomorrow, on bbc 3 i think at 7pm

Dallista
July 1st, 2006, 01:13 PM
I'm still recovering. :) Daleks and Cybermen, and Rose saying she will die... although I suspect there'll be a bit of a twist to it, cuz otherwise they'd never give it away at the start of the episode already!

Nightingale
July 1st, 2006, 01:40 PM
IMO Russel T Davies' best episode, loved the cliffhanger.

beale947
July 1st, 2006, 02:43 PM
Great episode 10/10:D

The action at the end with the cyber men having taken over the world without being there, and then the darleks at the very end :D great:D and the trailer, omg wow!

silverdamascus
July 1st, 2006, 03:06 PM
Daleks AND Cybers? How cool is that! :D

Egeria
July 1st, 2006, 03:11 PM
OMG, just remembered, what about the possible SG1 reference - Jaffa Glider??? :)

iLemon
July 1st, 2006, 03:12 PM
OMG, just remembered, what about the possible SG1 reference - Jaffa Glider??? :)
did they say 'Jaffa' Glider? Cause all I heard was glider.

Wraith Scientist
July 1st, 2006, 03:13 PM
did they say 'Jaffa' Glider? Cause all I heard was glider.

Funny, all I heard was "Jaffa" :P

Here's the clip:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dgsiVeYqOfY

It's about a third of the way through

iLemon
July 1st, 2006, 03:15 PM
Funny, all I heard was "Jaffa" :P

Here's the clip:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dgsiVeYqOfY

It's about a third of the way through
sweet! :D

Matt G
July 1st, 2006, 03:28 PM
Well...

1. If you're looking for SG1 references...that 'sphere' was blatently a Goa'uld communication ball!

2. Yvvone and her arrogance - now I know why the Doctor doesn't always like humanity!

3. Why the hell did the psychic paper fail Rose?

4. "The name's Mickey...Mickey Smith...defending the Earth".

5. And on top of all that the Dalek's turned up!

Even half sloshed after England vs Portugal I could tell that this was the best ep of the season so far. And next week's a near-dead-cert to top it!

iLemon
July 1st, 2006, 03:32 PM
Well...

1. If you're looking for SG1 references...that 'sphere' was blatently a Goa'uld communication ball!
Yeah, it reminded me of that too, very cool :)


Even half sloshed after England vs Portugal I could tell that this was the best ep of the season so far. And next week's a near-dead-cert to top it!
Agreed, it cheered me up a lot :) I couldnt make up my mind about whether to be sad about England or happy about Dr Who :P

Madeleine
July 1st, 2006, 03:36 PM
That was exhilerating. I laughted non-stop for the first five minutes (the japanese t-shirts, and Peggy shouting at 'Den' :D) and then for the next forty I was on the edge of my chair.

Mickey's back! And more together than Rose, for once! Hurrah!



3. Why the hell did the psychic paper fail Rose?

The labcoat fella she tried it on said that everyone at Torchwood had had psychic training; he knew the paper was blank.

dipsofjazz
July 1st, 2006, 04:04 PM
Wow! What a great episode.

It kept me excited all the way through. I laughed at the ghost t shirts, and also at the tv clips, especially the Eastenders one.
I didn't find Jackie annoying like I normally do, and thought she was really good.
Mickey was also great as the strong fighter, here to save earth.
I enjoyed all the characters who worked in Torchwood.
You can't beat the fun of having not only Cybermen, but Daleks too!

I can't wait for next week. :D

Prior_of_the_Ori
July 1st, 2006, 06:14 PM
Loved the episode, I suspected the Cybermen in the beginning but was surprised to find the Daleks in the end. Can't wait for next week. Interesting change in the Daleks being the whole hand laser thing that sprang out. Poor Torchwood, trapped inbetween the Cybermen and the Daleks.

So anyone want to place bets on who would win in the intial fight? The Cybermen or the Daleks? And yes we all know the Doctor will win in the end but there are bound to be some Cybermen Dalek battles....can't see the Daleks being friendly since they hate anything thats not a Dalek and the Cybermen want to convert everything....nice constrast.....

ShadowMaat
July 1st, 2006, 06:14 PM
HA! I so called that! As soon as I saw that sphere thing, I thought, OMG, it's one of them Dalek sphere wossnames, only supersized!

I also figured, whither goest the Cybermen, so goest Mickey. Good to see him back again, looking buff and ready for action! :) My guess is that Rose isn't actually going to die- or not permanently- but she will head back to AU Earth with Mickey to continue the fight there.

Lots of awsomeness to behold in this ep and it's good to see myself in the majority of loving an ep again. :P

Was I the only one who thought the ghosts looked cybermannish before the reveal? 'course it helped loads knowing beforehand that there'd be Cybes in the ep. Dunno if I would have guessed it otherwise.

I'd love to see how the Doctor's gonna get out of THIS one.

So I guess we have a few questions for next week:

1. Why did the Daleks wait? The ship has been there for months or whatever, so why not attack immediately? What critical event was necessary to get them to come out? Did they know about the Cybermen and exploit that? Or is it something else?

2. I suppose Cybermum perished in the AU battle, eh? Might be kinda weird, though, for Cybermum to confront flesh-and-blood Jackie. Either way, I'd love to hear the Doc try and explain her AU fate to her, and "why the hell didn't you stop it??". :D

3. Where's Jack? Whither goest the Daleks...? ;)

Fantastic ep! Can't wait for next week!

Oh, and it's a Jaffa Sunglider. Very nifty.

NowIWillDestroyAbydos
July 1st, 2006, 07:10 PM
Damn was that an awesome ep. Glad to have Mickey and the Daleks back. Next Week's Series/Season Finale looks fricking awesome, can't wait. And that Black Dalek was cool looking.

Egeria
July 1st, 2006, 07:26 PM
^Call me a geek, but I so want to here it call itself the supreeeeeeeeme dalek!

sag_ich_nicht
July 1st, 2006, 07:40 PM
So anyone want to place bets on who would win in the intial fight? The Cybermen or the Daleks? And yes we all know the Doctor will win in the end but there are bound to be some Cybermen Dalek battles....can't see the Daleks being friendly since they hate anything thats not a Dalek and the Cybermen want to convert everything....nice constrast.....No need for betting: the Daleks win the initial fight, if you look closely at the trailer at the end you see destroyed Cybermen in the background when the Supreme Dalek says "GENESIS ARK IS PRIMED".

Any speculation on what said Ark is?

Flyboy
July 1st, 2006, 10:25 PM
No need for betting: the Daleks win the initial fight, if you look closely at the trailer at the end you see destroyed Cybermen in the background when the Supreme Dalek says "GENESIS ARK IS PRIMED".

Any speculation on what said Ark is?
I'd go for a container of a retrovrius genetically engineered to mutate human DNA into dalek DNA.

HyperCaz
July 1st, 2006, 10:30 PM
as soon as the doc mentioned the alternate planes, I expected Mickey to appear. Absolutely cool to have both Daleks and Cybermen. I don't think Roses is going to die either because it just seems a little odd for a dead person to be narrating the opening stating that she died.

Anyway. I liked this episode, although that Torchwood woman made me want to punch things. Very annoying. Can't wait for the conclusion.

IMForeman
July 1st, 2006, 11:35 PM
Funny, all I heard was "Jaffa" :P

Here's the clip:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dgsiVeYqOfY

It's about a third of the way through

I heard "Jaffa" the first time I heard it, but alas, Confidential put paid to that idea. It's Jathaa. Bugger! I thought they'd made a Stargate reference.


No need for betting: the Daleks win the initial fight, if you look closely at the trailer at the end you see destroyed Cybermen in the background when the Supreme Dalek says "GENESIS ARK IS PRIMED".

Any speculation on what said Ark is?

Some guy named Dave. Dave Ross or something. He's apparantly some wheelchair bound mad scientist. ;)

Willow'sCat
July 2nd, 2006, 12:28 AM
I loved this! And OMG! I screamed when I saw the Black Imperial *is it????* Dalek! http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y286/ironicfox/smilies/288728bf.gif Yum... um, I mean bad, bad Daleks. :D

Could have done without the Ghostbusters reference, and I am glad the women isn't as one dimensional or evil as I thought she might be but then again she still has to face up to the Cybermen/Daleks so it may still happen. Jackie's heart to heart with Rose was a little off, how you can compare the maybe of a house and kids in the burbs to traveling the Universe, is beyond me! Jackie was never going to win that. I liked seeing Jackie on board the T.A.R.D.I.S

Mickey, well he seems less annoying.

WTF British Empire! :rolleyes: Get over it people you don't have one. :p

Two things how well do they know The Doctor? He doesn't always have male companions but when she asked about his companion she uses 'she' other thing... where did the Daleks come from? Our dimension? They just skirted the Time War? Can three Daleks take over the world and the Cybermen? Daleks and Cybermen do not play well together anyway so that won't last.

Finally where is Jack? Does he appear? Tell me he appears. :( Was he shacked up with the Daleks in the sphere? Ooh I can't wait till next week. Maybe Jack has another Ship and is tracking the Daleks!

"They can shoot me dead but the moral high-ground is mine". The Doctor

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y286/ironicfox/smilies/288728bf.gifhttp://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y286/ironicfox/smilies/288728bf.gifhttp://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y286/ironicfox/smilies/288728bf.gif

Billz
July 2nd, 2006, 02:41 AM
Im guessing that the daleks in the void ship used it to escape from the universe before Rose destoryed the rest of them in 'Parting Of The Ways (season 27)'. They were just hiding in the void, waiting for the right moment to strike.

Heres something else, I think the Genesis Ark is Jack!
Think about it, he is supposed to be in Torchwood in october, you have all wondered how he gets there. If my above theory about the daleks using the void ship to hide is true, Im guessing that Jack followed them into the void. Maybe when they are both in the void, the daleks detect Jack, destory whatever it was he used to get to there after the daleks in the first place, and made him into the Genesis Ark. Hes probably not 'dalek-ised' because they would need a hostage that they know the Doctor would probably try to save.

Or maybe my above theorys stink and the Genesis Ark is some kind of super-dalek.

Also, if you want another SG-1 reference, they were using P90's to fight off the Ood in 'The Impossible Planet' and The Satan Pit'. Just thought I would point that out.

Great episode, cant wait for next weeks finale.

One more thing, does anyone know what this years Doctor Who christmas special will be called?

The Signal
July 2nd, 2006, 03:04 AM
Spoiler for TorchwoodOnly problem is Jack doesnt work in Torcwood London, he works at Torchwood Cardiff, and it is not explained how he gets there apparently.

Willow'sCat
July 2nd, 2006, 03:18 AM
Spoiler for TorchwoodOnly problem is Jack doesnt work in Torcwood London, he works at Torchwood Cardiff, and it is not explained how he gets there apparently.What makes you think Torchwood London will survive? Plus is it even known if Jack's Torchwood is set in 2006? It is 2006 isn't it as Jackie is still well Jackie. :) Just saying Jack's Torchwood may out live London or London may be closed or merged with Cardiff, RTDs cheeky setting it in his birth place. ;) Or The Doctor takes Jack back in time or forward in Time when it all ends... anything could happen!

silverdamascus
July 2nd, 2006, 04:52 AM
OOh, I never thought about Capt. Jack, that'd be soo cool to see him back. And they do need to get him back to modern day times for Torchwood. It'd be a pretty good platform to launch from, nice thinking. :D

yaaayoubetcha
July 2nd, 2006, 06:47 AM
I thought it was a truly great ep, but can only give it a 9 outta 10 since the previews in last week's ep spoiled so much of it.

That said, there was some great dialogue. The verbal fencing tween the Doctor and Yvonne were great.

I heard Jatthaa right off the bat when they showed the ship but later, when rose came out of the TARDIS did see an Egyptian sarcophagus standing to the right.

As the ep progressed and it became more obvious that the Daleks were in the sphere I kept hoping it wouldn't just be the AU Daleks but also an AU Davros. That woulda just been too cool. Could still be him the Genesis thingy.

Daleks and Cybermen...wanted a team like that in the original series so badly. Glad their doing it now.

Of course, the Doctor will win and destroy/send back all the baddies, but it does present an interesting scenario. What happens when the current universe's cybermen run into the AU cybermen down the road? Ya just know it'll happen as some will escape somehow that will be explained later.

My fave line of the eps was from the previews though...something along the lines of 'Cybermen and Daleks. Together we could upgrade the universe.'

I also don't think that Rose will die. Her mom made the big speach which would turn out to be incredibly bad foreshadowing and a real piece of hack writing if they kill her off after that. I think it'll be the metaphorical 'death of innocence' or the like and she ends up staying home with mum.

On the whole, I have no complaints about this ep. utterly excellent.

:sam: :sam: :sam: :sam: :sam: outta :sam: :sam: :sam: :sam: :sam:

yaaayoubetcha
July 2nd, 2006, 06:52 AM
what do you think the Daleks were doing all that in the voidship waiting for the genesis chamber to be ready?

Cribbage?
Dalek 1:*warble* 15 for 2, 15 for 4, a pair is 6 and 4 is 10. I win again!
Black Dalek *warble* i so wish i could exterminate you!

Perhaps online Heart something to pass the time?

ShadowMaat
July 2nd, 2006, 07:00 AM
Obviously, they practiced singing the Doom Exterminate Song. :P Not quite as melodic as Gir, but perhaps that's a blessing in disguise...

The Signal
July 2nd, 2006, 07:01 AM
1 million green bottles?

mentalmichael
July 2nd, 2006, 07:15 AM
First of all: YAY! MICKEY'S BACK!!!!!!

I *loved* the intro - you really couldn't imagine any other show with a start like that (but I don't buy that she's dead - I figure the Doctor thinks she's dead and leaves Earth - would explain the stuff at the end of the intro with her looking so pale and sad)

However (and I may be alone in thinking this), I think it's time for the series to leave the old enemies behind. Putting Cybermen + Daleks together just sounds like a fanfic, not a real show. It was done well, but I just wish the writers could focus on producing their own uber-villains rather than reusing old ones.

Metarock Sam
July 2nd, 2006, 08:45 AM
A tremendous return to form in this weeks ep !!!!
After two dissapointing eps we get a corker and what a corker Army of Ghosts is.
It is such a brilliant ep right from the start with Rose's voiceover.
The Doctor was great in this ep. Lots of serious and humourous lines all woven together. DT Plays him so well !!! And has shown he has a good mastery of 'Playing Chicken' something his earlier incarnations wouldnt do.
Jackie was Funny too. And she had her first (most preferably last) TARDIS trip.
TORCHWOOD are cool. Not really bad just misguided and all.
Mickeys Back Hooray !!!!!! although I was hoping he wouldnt come back he did anyway but has grown alot and become more heroic.
I Thought the ghosts were jsut people from a parallel universe breaking in and was quite suprised when they turned out to be Cybermen. now thats a whole lotta Cybermen Cheesy
The Cybermen were brilliant. With Guns again yay (although these Guns are in built so they cant be disarmed easily)
The Daleks are back with a Dalek Supreme too !!!!!!! Hoorray for the return o both off the Doctors most Classic Classic villains .
Damn the 7 day wait !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

And the trailer was even more appealing with The Cybermen saying "Witrh both the Cyber and Daleks we can upgrade the world ' or something to that effect.
The Genesis Ark did look to me much like The Davros Emperor Dalek so maybe we have Davros !!!!!!!! that would be so brilliant !!!!!!!!!!
ANd Jack is rumoured to be back too !!!!!!!!! I cant wait !!!!

Naonak
July 2nd, 2006, 08:57 AM
I loved this episode as much as the Doctor loves humans... ;)
Daleks! Daleks v Cybermen!
So many great little moments, and the entire episode was great! When we first see Mickey is great, with the whole thumbs-up/wacky grin thing.
From the moment the Doctor said there was something inside the sphere I was hoping it was the Daleks. Daleks!

I'm hoping there's none of this "together we could upgrade the universe" malarkey the Cyberman was on about. I want Daleks v Cybermen, not CyberDaleks!
Hopefully he says that, there's a pause, and then a Dalek exterminates him.
Daleks! :D

iLemon
July 2nd, 2006, 10:14 AM
Could have done without the Ghostbusters reference, and I am glad the women isn't as one dimensional or evil as I thought she might be but then again she still has to face up to the Cybermen/Daleks so it may still happen. Jackie's heart to heart with Rose was a little off, how you can compare the maybe of a house and kids in the burbs to traveling the Universe, is beyond me! Jackie was never going to win that. I liked seeing Jackie on board the T.A.R.D.I.S

I loved that part! I was half expecting they'd play theme tune but they didn't :(

Anyway, loved all the refernces in this ep, the Eastenders one had to be my favourite, who better to have on Dr Who than Peggy Mitchell? :P

beale947
July 2nd, 2006, 11:45 AM
well in the trailer the cyberman says "Cybermen plus Darleks, together we could upgrade the universe." But i hope it ones of those alliances wear they are both planning to screw each other over. And i hope its Davros in the genisis ark.

It was a great episode:D renewed my faith in them showing good episodes. And the way i see it is, different colours shells for the jobs that particular darlek does, such as the gold ones being soliders.
And another thought, the cybermen said they followed the void ship, maybe the cybermen knew who was in the ship and they went after it to upgrade them selfs with darlek stuff

pbellosom
July 2nd, 2006, 12:43 PM
I loved this episode, not as good as the impossible planet/the satan pit but very few things could be. Some points that i hope are adressed are:

1. How did the AU Mickey get through to their reality? If the Doctor didn't think it could be done I don't see how a bunch of humans could have done it.

2. Mickey said that the cybermen all disappeared a few months ago, so where have they been all this time?

I had some more but i forgot about them if I remember them I'll post them later.

A stupid idea for the story line, woulden't it be great if this tied in with the "Dalek Invasion of Earth." I mean i know that it was set in the 22nd century but in "the genesis of the daleks" the doctor states that the invasion was in the year 2000 so they could chage it again. It could tie things into the original series like with "School reunion." It would also explain why the daleks in "The dalek invasion of Earth" had much greater technology than the ones seen previously who were in the future. I think it would be great to have the Doctor all puzzled about what to do and then the first Doctor, Ian, Baberraand Susan (probably portrayed by different actors) came and ended the Dalek's regime.

Also just wondering in the preview of next weeks episode, why does the black dalek have a number 10 on it's front.

ShadowMaat
July 2nd, 2006, 12:55 PM
Well, if the Cybermen can follow the Void ship through to "our" Earth, maybe Mickey and his merry band can, too. ;)

sag_ich_nicht
July 2nd, 2006, 01:48 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dalek_Supreme#Dalek_Supreme

for those who still don't know what "that black Dalek" is.

Darkseid
July 2nd, 2006, 02:11 PM
Just saw the episode. Thought it was solid, if not insanly predictable. My thoughts (Spoilers included[B]);

1) How is Earth in danger when we know that humanity survives another 5 billion years or so, and we actually watch the Earth get destroyed last season? That killed a lot of suspense for me.

2) MICKEY!!!!!!! Good to see ya mate!! Was hoping you would make an appearance!!

3) Finally, a use for the Sonic Screwdriver that actually makes sense...shattering glass! If Beverly Sills can do it...

4) why, oh why, oh why, oh why do we have to have these faux-Cybermen? Why can't we have the real ones. The ones in out universe. The ones that terrorize us, not another universe. Bunch of wind-up tin soldiers is all they are. Although I will admit that the guns in the arms are cool. About time they come back. I always wondered why the Cybermen would go old-school guns that can be lost or grabbed by someone else.

5) So the rumors of a black Dalek seem to be true.......gotta love the internet...

6) This episode seemed rather....I dunno....convienent....Daleks, Cybermen, humans, moderen day Earth....it all seemed to happen in a nice bow. Like I mentioned earlyer, we know Earth will survive, that takes some suspense out of this (and one reason, in my opinion, this whole season has pretty much been lacking story wise) but there is everything laid out for everyone to see...no thought really needed. The episode was [B]extremly predictable, I felt like I was watching WWE (I was saying what was happening five minutes before it happened.....then I turned to my wife and said, "I could [mod snip] I saw the trailer for next weeks episode and kinda went, "Eh..." and I find myself not really all that excited about it. I could take it or leave it. I don't feel that suspense that I felt waiting for "The Satan Pit" or "The Parting of the Ways". I feel like, "Well, last week is the last episode......"

7) Speaking of which, hard to belive that next week is the last episode. 13 episodes in a season? Man, that's too little. I don't know how the British do it! I go nuts when the Olympics are on, and I have to wait two weeks to see a new episode of The Apprentice.

8) I said it once, I will say it 1000 times, I don't belive Rose will die next week. It's too obvious. If Satan was so good at predicting deaths why didn't he know he was going to be thrown out of a spaceship window and into a blackhole? I mean, he is Satan!!!

All in all, it felt like a Terrance Dicks story. Structured fine, but no real emotion that I really felt....

See you all next week, when we see if they can save this story.

iLemon
July 2nd, 2006, 02:16 PM
1) How is Earth in danger when we know that humanity survives another 5 billion years or so, and we actually watch the Earth get destroyed last season? That killed a lot of suspense for me.

The Doctor is a timetraveler, and you cant travel to the past without making alterations in the future (unless you tread carefully, and the Doctor doesnt)

DigiFluid
July 2nd, 2006, 02:43 PM
I've been avoiding spoilers like crazy, so holy CRAP was that ever a shock of an ending!

I loved every minute of it, though I'm not sure next week's episode title "Doomsday" quite does their current predicament justice.

I'd also like to put in my vote for Rose not dying. I mean....how exactly would she have narrated the intro, calling it her death, if she was dead? Heh, if you followed that.

10/10, can't wait for next week!

ShadowMaat
July 2nd, 2006, 02:56 PM
I can see Rose dying and the voiceover saying, "And that was how I died."

Lots of dramatic music, maybe even a "fade to black" and then a heartbeat or three later, "...And this is how I came back!" ;)

sag_ich_nicht
July 2nd, 2006, 02:59 PM
Newest preview for Doomsday here:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/broadband/mediawrapper/consoles/drwhonew/bb_rm_console.shtml?pack1-13a_16x9

silverdamascus
July 2nd, 2006, 03:12 PM
I can see Rose dying and the voiceover saying, "And that was how I died."

Lots of dramatic music, maybe even a "fade to black" and then a heartbeat or three later, "...And this is how I came back!" ;)

That's really slap bang between cheesy and dramatically very cool. Totally channeling Russel T Davies there mate!

Darkseid
July 2nd, 2006, 05:45 PM
The Doctor is a timetraveler, and you cant travel to the past without making alterations in the future (unless you tread carefully, and the Doctor doesnt)

That can't be right. What you are basically saying is that the only correct story is whatever one we are on. That almost everything that has happened in the past is moot. Under that theory....Satan will still be proven wrong, if she dies the Doc can go back in time and save her, the Doc can still go back and save Adric, The Daleks can go back in time and make sure The Time Lords never existed, with the blink of an eye every episode made can be disproved........

........if that's the case, then why would anyone bother to spend any time getting emotionally attached to these characters......

DigiFluid
July 2nd, 2006, 05:55 PM
Personally, I'm a subscriber to the Novikov self-consistency principle (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Novikov_self-consistency_principle) of time travel.

Darkseid
July 2nd, 2006, 05:59 PM
Personally, I'm a subscriber to the Novikov self-consistency principle (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Novikov_self-consistency_principle) of time travel.


Yes, but that requires smarter people then myself to understand it....

iLemon
July 3rd, 2006, 04:06 AM
That can't be right. What you are basically saying is that the only correct story is whatever one we are on. That almost everything that has happened in the past is moot.
Do the Dr Who episodes make sense to you? Whenever he goes to a particular time something happens that shouldn't have happened, and then the Dortor intervenes and corrects the problem. What doesnt make sense is how these events happen in the first place, or whether they were supposed to happen and the Doctor interfered with its course.
There was an episode in Season 27 called Bad Wolf where the future had been altered because of something the Doctor changed in the past. The future is constantly changing because of the Doctor's intervening, Torchwood wouldn't exist if it wasn't for the Doctor.

Under that theory....Satan will still be proven wrong, if she dies the Doc can go back in time and save her, the Doc can still go back and save Adric, The Daleks can go back in time and make sure The Time Lords never existed, with the blink of an eye every episode made can be disproved........

........if that's the case, then why would anyone bother to spend any time getting emotionally attached to these characters......
The Doctor cant go back and save them, remember the episode Fathers Day where Rose saved her father? You cant stop death.

ShadowMaat
July 3rd, 2006, 04:32 AM
The past seems to be constantly changing as well since the Doctor is always discovering things he "knows" shouldn't have happened.

Time isn't a straight line.

iLemon
July 3rd, 2006, 04:56 AM
For those of you asking about Jack Harkness, they never said what timeline the series Torchwood would be in, there's every chance that it could take place in the future or the past meaning Jack wasn't there in episode 12.

DigiFluid
July 3rd, 2006, 07:28 AM
Yes, but that requires smarter people then myself to understand it....
Oh not really. It's actually really rather simple when you break it down to its most basic principles.

Simply put, one cannot alter the past, because the past has already happened. Suppose you travel back in time, and using the proverbial paradox, plot to murder your grandfather--thereby preventing your own existence, which would prevent him from being murdered in the first place, and so on.

The Novikov Principle essentially states that this would be impossible. Something would happen which would prevent you from doing so. The gun might jam, or you'd lose your nerve, or someone would walk into the path of the bullet at the last conceivable second. Anything may happen, but something will happen which would prevent any temporal paradox from occurring.

According to this, history is essentially written in stone; nothing can alter what has already happened. What happens as a result of time travellers has already been written. The example on the Wiki article is fantastic:


Potential implications for free will
In another example, let us examine the following situation: A person travels back in time to discover the cause of a famous fire. While in the building where the fire started, he or she accidentally knocks over a kerosene lantern and causes a fire, the same fire that would inspire him or her, years later, to travel back in time. This situation is entirely consistent — after travelling back in time the person "fulfills" the events in the "past" which "already happened" (from the perspective of the future). In this example the person lacked free will — it is impossible for him or her not to have set off the fire -- that would be inconsistent. Even if the person somehow knew that this would happen, he or she would be somehow bound to "follow" history by the self-consistency principle. Note that there are other equally plausible series of events for this case. For example, the fire could have never happened, and the person would then never travel back in time to discover its cause and make it happen. This is also entirely consistent. Thus we see that under this principle there may be many valid "solutions" to the same initial conditions.

iLemon
July 3rd, 2006, 07:47 AM
In another example, let us examine the following situation: A person travels back in time to discover the cause of a famous fire. While in the building where the fire started, he or she accidentally knocks over a kerosene lantern and causes a fire, the same fire that would inspire him or her, years later, to travel back in time. This situation is entirely consistent — after travelling back in time the person "fulfills" the events in the "past" which "already happened"
I disagree, if that person who travelled back in time started that fire then they would never have had the need to travel back in time in the first place. You cannot fulfil a past event, the past happens before the future, past events have already happened and when someone from the future goes back in time they alter these past events resulting in either a new timeline or a parallel universe.

The Signal
July 3rd, 2006, 08:11 AM
1) How is Earth in danger when we know that humanity survives another 5 billion years or so, and we actually watch the Earth get destroyed last season? That killed a lot of suspense for me.

Did you even watch the unquiet dead? Rose made the same comment you do and the Doctor put her straight, Time is forever changing, simple, it is not a straight line.

The episode was extremly predictable, I felt like I was watching WWE (I was saying what was happening five minutes before it happened.....

You have admitted yourself you have seen spoilers on the net.


then I turned to my wife and said, "I could write this s?#t!")

No offence, but I doubt that you could.


7) Speaking of which, hard to belive that next week is the last episode. 13 episodes in a season? Man, that's too little. I don't know how the British do it! I go nuts when the Olympics are on, and I have to wait two weeks to see a new episode of The Apprentice.
We have smaller budgets, so to spread that budget, we have less episodes.


8) I said it once, I will say it 1000 times, I don't belive Rose will die next week. It's too obvious. If Satan was so good at predicting deaths why didn't he know he was going to be thrown out of a spaceship window and into a blackhole? I mean, he is Satan!!!
I have to agree with you there, it seems too obvious.

DigiFluid
July 3rd, 2006, 08:18 AM
So, I had a thought on the whole Rose death issue. Dimensions are being broken, right? Suppose this is an AU Rose doing the narration?

Yes I know there was no Rose in the AU in Cybermen/Age of Steel, but suppose there actually had been and Jackie had given her up for adoption as a child. Not exactly farfetched, considering the AU Jackie we saw there.

ShadowMaat
July 3rd, 2006, 08:59 AM
The Novikov Principle essentially states that this would be impossible. Something would happen which would prevent you from doing so. The gun might jam, or you'd lose your nerve, or someone would walk into the path of the bullet at the last conceivable second. Anything may happen, but something will happen which would prevent any temporal paradox from occurring.
So it's the idea of "history" being self-correcting? That's kind of a fun line of thought. It gets played with a bit in one of my favorite books, To Say Nothig of the Dog where they talk about historians going back and trying to change the outcome of various battles and whatnot and the sometimes extreme lengths history (for lack of a better word) will go to in order to keep the outcome the same. One of the examples given involved a miniscule change decades before the event and other things were smaller like a horse losing a shoe or a message getting smudged. I should look that up, it was quite nifty.

pbellosom
July 3rd, 2006, 09:10 AM
Did you even watch the unquiet dead? Rose made the same comment you do and the Doctor put her straight, Time is forever changing, simple, it is not a straight line.



Infact in an earlier draft of the episode the doctor proved this point by taking Rose back to her own time and seeing the world being run by the Gelth.

i thought of another one of those points I forgot yesterday. If only the population of London was cyberised in the AU and they were all defeated by removing the emotional inhibitor, how were there so many cybermen?

Wraith Scientist
July 3rd, 2006, 09:15 AM
Infact in an earlier draft of the episode the doctor proved this point by taking Rose back to her own time and seeing the world being run by the Gelth.

i thought of another one of those points I forgot yesterday. If only the population of London was cyberised in the AU and they were all defeated by removing the emotional inhibitor, how were there so many cybermen?

There were tons more Lumic factories around the world, and in the TARDISODE it said that thousands has gone missing in South America: presumably converted into Cybermen, although London seems to have been Lumic's first attempt at actually taking control and forcibly converting everyone

Presumably, there has been a long war between humans and cybermen in the AU, then the Cybermen found the void ship and followed it to the Doctor's Earth.

There must be an AU Doctor somewhere ;)

Darkseid
July 3rd, 2006, 09:56 AM
Do the Dr Who episodes make sense to you? Whenever he goes to a particular time something happens that shouldn't have happened, and then the Dortor intervenes and corrects the problem. What doesnt make sense is how these events happen in the first place, or whether they were supposed to happen and the Doctor interfered with its course.
There was an episode in Season 27 called Bad Wolf where the future had been altered because of something the Doctor changed in the past. The future is constantly changing because of the Doctor's intervening, Torchwood wouldn't exist if it wasn't for the Doctor.

The Doctor cant go back and save them, remember the episode Fathers Day where Rose saved her father? You cant stop death.



THAT WAS THE WHOLE POINT!!!!

You seem to be missing completly what I was saying. What I am saying is this; I don't believe Rose will die. Just because Satan said it in one episode doesn't mean it will happen.

Do the Doctor Who episodes make sense to me?? WTF does that mean? Not everywhere he goes does something happen that isn't supposed to.

Sometimes he thwarts a government.

Sometimes he goes back in time and meets Aztecs.

Sometimes he goes to the future to watch the Earth be destroyed.

Sometimes he gets caught up in a drug smuggling opperation.

Sometimes he fights a warewolf

Sometimes he visits the Tomb of The Cybermen.

Sometimes he solves a murder mystery.

None of these stories has anything to do with time being messed with by anyone or anything. If time has zero consistancy in the show from episode to episode then the whole series is moot and a colossal waste of the veiwers time.

Time is not the main theme or issue with Doctor Who. It's a means to get various stories told to the veiwer.

Darkseid
July 3rd, 2006, 10:06 AM
Oh not really. It's actually really rather simple when you break it down to its most basic principles.

Simply put, one cannot alter the past, because the past has already happened. Suppose you travel back in time, and using the proverbial paradox, plot to murder your grandfather--thereby preventing your own existence, which would prevent him from being murdered in the first place, and so on.

The Novikov Principle essentially states that this would be impossible. Something would happen which would prevent you from doing so. The gun might jam, or you'd lose your nerve, or someone would walk into the path of the bullet at the last conceivable second. Anything may happen, but something will happen which would prevent any temporal paradox from occurring.

According to this, history is essentially written in stone; nothing can alter what has already happened. What happens as a result of time travellers has already been written. The example on the Wiki article is fantastic:


Which practically prooves my point....

Since the events from The End of the World took place in the past from the point of view from New Earth, it's written in stone and can't be changed.

Ok, let's put this in a more simple way;

If anyone here actually thinks they are going to destroy the Earth and everyone on it for the sake of this show, you are seriously fooling yourself. They would NEVER do such a thing.

So, with that in mind, the "suspense" for me is non-existant. The only real suspense I have felt with the series all season was in The Impossible Planet cliffhanger. They could have destroyed that planet in a moments notice and it would have worked story wise. All these Earth bound episodes aren't doing anything for me at all because I know they are not going to be hurting Earth. Earth will be just fine. Most of the "suspense" of Earth getting "invaded" was worn off for me during the Pertwee years.

silverdamascus
July 3rd, 2006, 12:11 PM
For those of you asking about Jack Harkness, they never said what timeline the series Torchwood would be in, there's every chance that it could take place in the future or the past meaning Jack wasn't there in episode 12.

Huh, I'm sure I read somewhere, Radio Times I think that it was set in modern day.

beale947
July 3rd, 2006, 03:12 PM
THAT WAS THE WHOLE POINT!!!!

You seem to be missing completly what I was saying. What I am saying is this; I don't believe Rose will die. Just because Satan said it in one episode doesn't mean it will happen.

Do the Doctor Who episodes make sense to me?? WTF does that mean? Not everywhere he goes does something happen that isn't supposed to.

Sometimes he thwarts a government.

Sometimes he goes back in time and meets Aztecs.

Sometimes he goes to the future to watch the Earth be destroyed.

Sometimes he gets caught up in a drug smuggling opperation.

Sometimes he fights a warewolf

Sometimes he visits the Tomb of The Cybermen.

Sometimes he solves a murder mystery.

None of these stories has anything to do with time being messed with by anyone or anything. If time has zero consistancy in the show from episode to episode then the whole series is moot and a colossal waste of the veiwers time.

Time is not the main theme or issue with Doctor Who. It's a means to get various stories told to the veiwer.

Doctor who isn't about the time travel, thats jsut a great plot device, its the great things that happen in he episodes, that is doctor who

iLemon
July 3rd, 2006, 03:25 PM
Huh, I'm sure I read somewhere, Radio Times I think that it was set in modern day.
Did it? Well then maybe the Doctor arrived before Jack joined?

Darkseid
July 3rd, 2006, 03:29 PM
Doctor who isn't about the time travel, thats jsut a great plot device, its the great things that happen in he episodes, that is doctor who


Didn't I just say that...?

ShadowMaat
July 3rd, 2006, 03:32 PM
My guess would've been that the finale will set up the spinoff by (re)introducing Jack and arranging his place in the Torchwood hierarchy.

Unless he's been there all along and Nasty Lady is just his henchrat and he'll step from behind the curtain next week.

beale947
July 3rd, 2006, 03:59 PM
well if rose doesn't die in doomsday, she leaves some otherway as she announced she is leaving after the end of this series, so she may yet die.

Jonzey
July 3rd, 2006, 04:54 PM
I think the whole saying-she-will-die thing could just be a request from the BBC to cover their butts. I mean, Dr Who does have a fairly large audience of younger viewers, and in this day and age I can just imagine them getting swamped with masses of complaints from overprotective parents asking how they could kill someone off with no warning, and how it's permanently scarred their little darlings who havn't been able to sleep since.

Darkseid
July 3rd, 2006, 06:54 PM
well if rose doesn't die in doomsday, she leaves some otherway as she announced she is leaving after the end of this series, so she may yet die.


well, yes, I know

Darkseid
July 3rd, 2006, 06:59 PM
My guess would've been that the finale will set up the spinoff by (re)introducing Jack and arranging his place in the Torchwood hierarchy.

Unless he's been there all along and Nasty Lady is just his henchrat and he'll step from behind the curtain next week.


Ya, that makes sense. Following the trail of the Daleks.....Torchwood realizes that The Doc isn't a badguy, their charter changes, badda bing-badda boom-badda bang, Doc saves Earth, Jack likes it here (at least he's home....and there could be some alien technology that could help him with his memory) and stays, Torchwood changes their tune and The Doc heads to Austrailia for a Holiday sans Rose because she decided to stay home with her mother and father.....

yaaayoubetcha
July 3rd, 2006, 07:24 PM
sans Rose because she decided to stay home with her mother and father.....

unfortunately, I'd been thinking the same thing.

the only thing that would draw her from the Doctor would be a complete family and spoilers from a couple weeks ago indicate that could happen.

Rose has been whining for the better part of 2 seasons about her father and I think it would be a horrible ending to her story for that to come true. I'm not adverse to happy endings, don't get me wrong. I just think it would be a bad way to end her story.

ShadowMaat
July 3rd, 2006, 07:37 PM
So will AU Dad hook up with "our" universe's Mum? Or will Jackie's "I'll protect them until I die!" comment to Elton a few weeks back turn out much more prophetic than she realized and Rose will just take off with Daddykins? ;) Imagine Jackie getting Cyberised in TWO universes... kinda gives you a warm fuzzy feeling, doesn't it? :D

I still wanna see Rose hook up with Mickey, but I'm stubbon that way. It's never gonna happen, is it? *sigh* Only question is whether or not Mickey'll even survive.

Egeria
July 3rd, 2006, 07:41 PM
I think the whole saying-she-will-die thing could just be a request from the BBC to cover their butts. I mean, Dr Who does have a fairly large audience of younger viewers, and in this day and age I can just imagine them getting swamped with masses of complaints from overprotective parents asking how they could kill someone off with no warning, and how it's permanently scarred their little darlings who havn't been able to sleep since.

Right, I see you're point...but hey give my little darlings some credit, they're not that easily wounded. Heck, if they can get over seeing #9 leave then they can cope with Rose popping her clogs. Yes the show has a high percentage of younger viewers, doesn't mean they're dumbing down the show for them. Overprotective parents...LOL! Try being a parent nowadays, some of the stuff on TV makes the idea of Rose dying akin to watching the Wiggles. :D

ShadowMaat
July 3rd, 2006, 07:45 PM
After Empty Child, any "might scare the kiddies" stuff pales in comparison, don'tcha think? ;)

Darkseid
July 3rd, 2006, 09:11 PM
unfortunately, I'd been thinking the same thing.

the only thing that would draw her from the Doctor would be a complete family and spoilers from a couple weeks ago indicate that could happen.

Rose has been whining for the better part of 2 seasons about her father and I think it would be a horrible ending to her story for that to come true. I'm not adverse to happy endings, don't get me wrong. I just think it would be a bad way to end her story.


I didn't know there was a spoiler about this. It just made sense to me that Rose would stay home to be with her mother and father. It also would make sense to me that she would be able to come back sometime in the future....

Jonzey
July 4th, 2006, 02:00 AM
I don't see how staying home with her family is dying in any sense of the word, literal or metaphorical.

silverdamascus
July 4th, 2006, 07:18 AM
Ya, that makes sense. Following the trail of the Daleks.....Torchwood realizes that The Doc isn't a badguy...Torchwood changes their tune ].....

I hope not, I like the idea of Torchwood being antagonists, or at least ambigous. I mean we have UNIT for being on the Doctor's side.

The Doctor's always been for protecting humanity. I kinda like the idea of Torchwood being humanity saying we're growing up we want to explore this on our own, teenage strop kinda thing. The Doctor knows fine well they're going to make more than a few mistakes but it throws up a few interesting issues that way.

Hanmer
July 4th, 2006, 08:41 AM
Brilliant episode, can't wait for the next..

http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c351/stargatespacetravel/colliding.png

Something I made quickly :P

beale947
July 4th, 2006, 10:26 AM
cool

and 96 hours and 34 minutes left to go untill "Doomsday"

pbellosom
July 4th, 2006, 11:15 AM
How did Mickey get a job at Torchwood? surely if you attempted to join they'd do extensive background checks?

yaaayoubetcha
July 4th, 2006, 12:16 PM
How did Mickey get a job at Torchwood? surely if you attempted to join they'd do extensive background checks?

shhhhh!

don't ask questions they're not going to answer!
:)

Metarock Sam
July 4th, 2006, 12:43 PM
Perhaps he just knoocked out the dude who was supposed to be working there called Samuel.

Easter Lily
July 4th, 2006, 01:27 PM
Right, I see you're point...but hey give my little darlings some credit, they're not that easily wounded. Heck, if they can get over seeing #9 leave then they can cope with Rose popping her clogs. Yes the show has a high percentage of younger viewers, doesn't mean they're dumbing down the show for them. Overprotective parents...LOL! Try being a parent nowadays, some of the stuff on TV makes the idea of Rose dying akin to watching the Wiggles. :D
I think kids are a lot tougher than we sometimes give them credit for...
Personally, if they can sit through Daleks, Oods, Cybermen and clockwork clowns, I don't think Rose being gone from the scene will do too much long term psychological damage.
I can't speak for anyone else's kiddies but my five year old takes death on the screen rather matter-of-factly. When's she sees a sprawling figure on the ground, she's usually quick to ask, "Is he/she dead?"

I hope Mickey survives even if Rose doesn't... I've come to appreciate his journey.

Easter Lily
July 4th, 2006, 01:37 PM
I've been out of action the last couple of days... but I would like to pipe in and say how much I enjoyed this episode. The cliffhanger did catch me off guard but I guessed pretty early on what the "ghosts" were.
It was overwhelmingly good... I loved the Ghostbusters reference and the Scooby Doo voice. I even liked the 3D glasses.
The only thing I found a bit jarring was the applause made by Yvonne and Torchwood as the Doctor made his entrance. DT's reaction was spot on and classic but I just found the tone of that scene inappropriate to the kind of organization Torchwood is. I dunno... I suppose I was expecting a slightly darker edge to Torchwood rather than this breezy, jolly... "we're a happy family" kind of feel that I was getting instead.

Other than that... it was all good...

ShadowMaat
July 4th, 2006, 03:42 PM
I think the point of that scene was specifically to throw the Doctor off and maybe mislead him into thinking things weren't as bad as he thought. Although assuming that a little applause and a cheery welcome would be enough to make him lower defences IS a bit silly...

Meanwhile, has anyone ever read the fear forecast recappy things of Doctor Who on the BBC site? They go through and sort of summarize the reactions of various-aged kids to the potentially scary elements in the eps. Some of them are really funny.


Adam senses that Dad is feeling anxious, and holds his hand comfortingly: "It's very nervewracking," he explains. Then a cyberman appears. "Waaaagh!" yell Adam, Samuel and Harry.


The Doctor introduces his companion. Amy, with her keen eye for detail declares, "That's not Rose! Silly Doctor!"

And regarding the end of Empty Child:


As the episode ends, Samuel asks his mum: "Can we watch the next episode in the daytime? When it's light? Adam has been taking lessons from his grandma about avoiding nightmares: "This is so scary - people shouldn't eat cheese before watching it."

Easter Lily
July 4th, 2006, 04:50 PM
I think the point of that scene was specifically to throw the Doctor off and maybe mislead him into thinking things weren't as bad as he thought. Although assuming that a little applause and a cheery welcome would be enough to make him lower defences IS a bit silly...
*shrugs* I didn't get that impression... Yvonne and Co. looked too much like fanboys and girls.
With an edge. ;)

Jonzey
July 4th, 2006, 05:08 PM
I think kids are a lot tougher than we sometimes give them credit for...
Personally, if they can sit through Daleks, Oods, Cybermen and clockwork clowns, I don't think Rose being gone from the scene will do too much long term psychological damage.
I can't speak for anyone else's kiddies but my five year old takes death on the screen rather matter-of-factly. When's she sees a sprawling figure on the ground, she's usually quick to ask, "Is he/she dead?"

I hope Mickey survives even if Rose doesn't... I've come to appreciate his journey.
I'm not saying it would scar the kids- heck, kids this days are pretty much immune to that kinda stuff. But you do get some parents who are so ridiculously over protective- the kind of parents who would write in and complain and threaten lawsuits and that kinda stuff- when all the while the kid just carries on as normal, completely unaffected by it.

Scoobing
July 4th, 2006, 05:23 PM
Loved the line:

Doctor: "So I'm a prisoner then?"
Yvonne: "Ohh yes"

Delivery was great by both, just struck me as funny the way she casually replied to the question.

ShadowMaat
July 4th, 2006, 06:00 PM
*shrugs* I didn't get that impression... Yvonne and Co. looked too much like fanboys and girls.
With an edge. ;)
Well, there's also the fact that the entire purpose of Torchwood, above & beyond the aquiring of alien tech, is to stop the Doctor. Not only do they finally find him, but they find him on their doorstep. That's gotta count for something, too. ;)

Egeria
July 4th, 2006, 07:18 PM
I'm not saying it would scar the kids- heck, kids this days are pretty much immune to that kinda stuff. But you do get some parents who are so ridiculously over protective- the kind of parents who would write in and complain and threaten lawsuits and that kinda stuff- when all the while the kid just carries on as normal, completely unaffected by it.

I know exactly where you're coming from.....but us sci-fi parents are on a mission to re-populate the planet with sci-fi offspring and wouldn't dream of complaining about such things. :D

IMForeman
July 4th, 2006, 09:01 PM
I posted this on Outpost Gallifrey, and it seems to have gone over well. It's my "final scene" for Doomsday. I doubt it'll be like this in the actual episode, it's just how I'd end it.

The Doctor, Jackie, Pete and Mickey are all at Rose's funeral. They all start to walk away, the Doctor remaining behind momentarily to look at the tombstone for a moment. He has an inscrutible, solemn look on his face. Then he turns and walks away. The camera focuses on Rose's tombstone: Rose Tyler 1987-2007. Beloved Daughter. Treasured Companion. Then, as the sound of the TARDIS dematerializing is heard, a little boy runs up and spray paints "Bad Wolf" on her tombstone, and the credits roll over the now defiled stone.

-IMF

travis
July 7th, 2006, 02:51 AM
Absolutly great ep, cant want for the finale.

I have to say that so far the best ep in this season for me so far is "Girl In The Fire Place", so I'm hoping the finale will be something spectacular:)

BC - 303
July 7th, 2006, 06:03 AM
doctor whos ment to scare children, thats the point. its ment to have children behind the couch scared of the Daleks or Cybermen.

I think, what should happen, is the AU cybermen should contact the Mondas Cybermen so they can share the victory of earth.

Darkstar
July 7th, 2006, 06:15 AM
Great episode, Loved the Twist and knew all long the Daleks would be there, Jaffa Glider was an unexpected line, dunno if i heard correctly but i haven't read all the posts here so dunno if that was intentional or just a miss-heared line that sounded like "Jaffa Glider" ??

ShadowMaat
July 7th, 2006, 06:28 AM
Great episode, Loved the Twist and knew all long the Daleks would be there, Jaffa Glider was an unexpected line, dunno if i heard correctly but i haven't read all the posts here so dunno if that was intentional or just a miss-heared line that sounded like "Jaffa Glider" ??
Actually it was a Jatha sunglider, but yeah, lots of folks mishard that one. ;)

Metarock Sam
July 7th, 2006, 06:49 AM
yeah well I heard Jaffa too. Its nice anyway to have a reference to Stargate. Also the sphere looked like the communication device in the SG-1 finale that Apophis uses. and if you look carefully the sphere room in the tower is the reused set of the floor 500 Control room in Badwolf/ The Parting of the Ways.

IndianaJones00
July 7th, 2006, 09:31 AM
Dont forget about the BSG Viper that the Tardis got parked in front of.

Metarock Sam
July 7th, 2006, 10:22 AM
Oh I missed that. I dont watch Battlestar Galactica.

Willow'sCat
July 8th, 2006, 03:44 AM
For those of you asking about Jack Harkness, they never said what timeline the series Torchwood would be in, there's every chance that it could take place in the future or the past meaning Jack wasn't there in episode 12.Well RTD did say John Barrowman would appear in series 3/29 so maybe it will be the Christmas eppy, technically this year but still next series. ;) Just a thought. :)

Flyboy
July 8th, 2006, 04:51 AM
Yes, the Doctor is not set to have a companion until the start of S29, not the next Christmas ep... so maybe his side kick WILL be Jack...

DigiFluid
July 8th, 2006, 07:44 AM
Just a small note about 'Army of Ghosts' before 'Doomsday' airs tonight...

Did anyone else think the music in this episode was absolutely fantastic? I just rewatched and realized just how bloody good it is.

BC - 303
July 8th, 2006, 10:56 AM
T minus 8 minutes to doomsday, to war on earth, to the story of her death!

scarimor
July 8th, 2006, 11:55 AM
New Companion
OMG! Catherine Tate! Woo hooooo!

Commander Ivanova
July 8th, 2006, 12:01 PM
No, not the new companion. God forbid. Just the eponymous character from the first ep of next season.

What was that all about then? Too much slush in my book. Missed most of it due to other people's rugrats, note to self: stay in ALONE on Saturday nights when Dr Who is on.

Tracy Jane
July 8th, 2006, 12:01 PM
New Companion
OMG! Catherine Tate! Woo hooooo!
That was exactly my thought! It brought a huge smile to my face after such a tear jerking ending.

scarimor
July 8th, 2006, 12:41 PM
ok, not companion - guest star. I am so looking forward to seeing her in the Special.

lord-anubis
October 29th, 2006, 11:42 PM
i knew but dident want to belive it. i think they only then messing was some one saying after the Cybermen came. carp cyberman are all over the world well at least it can't get any wrose then 5 sec later here come the daleks

ShadowMaat
December 22nd, 2006, 07:21 PM
Here's something I don't think I thought of the first time around: If this is the almighty Torchwood and they know they're fighting a massive invasion of high-tech aliens, how come they're only using regular guns? They HAVE more advanced weapons, why not use them?

I was also amused to note that even though I've seen these eps and know how they turned out, I was STILL hoping Captain Jack was in the Void ship... or at least the Genesis ark. ;)

Silly, silly me. lol

MasySyma
December 22nd, 2006, 09:40 PM
I was also amused to note that even though I've seen these eps and know how they turned out, I was STILL hoping Captain Jack was in the Void ship... or at least the Genesis ark. ;)

Silly, silly me. lol

Agreed. When Rose followed Mickey, the shape looked familiar, so I was hoping it was Jack, but I was pleased with Mickey too. :)

I did find the regular gun problem suprising. I wanted the Doctor to laugh and prove they were handling futuristic hair dryers again. :)

Col.Foley
December 24th, 2006, 07:50 AM
Here's something I don't think I thought of the first time around: If this is the almighty Torchwood and they know they're fighting a massive invasion of high-tech aliens, how come they're only using regular guns? They HAVE more advanced weapons, why not use them?


Three things for this. One, they may not be trained on the weaponry, two the weapons may not have the neccesarry power to work, or they simply have not gotten them to work yet.
I for one was very im[ressed with the episode, it was a good introduction for things to come
9/10

Angela V
February 17th, 2007, 12:19 AM
Oops. Didn't know it had a cliffhanger! My son's almost 7 so has been bugging me when part 2 airs! Got to wait until Monday. He didn't like Rose talking about her dying at all. He really likes her. I don't so much.
I've been renting the Tom Baker Years dvds from my library. So it's kind of cool to compare.

ShadowMaat
February 17th, 2007, 06:53 AM
Oops. Didn't know it had a cliffhanger! My son's almost 7 so has been bugging me when part 2 airs! Got to wait until Monday. He didn't like Rose talking about her dying at all. He really likes her. I don't so much.

I take it you haven't been keeping up with the spoilers for the last ep, then? You'll have a few more surprises in store.

Angela V
February 18th, 2007, 01:22 AM
I take it you haven't been keeping up with the spoilers for the last ep, then? You'll have a few more surprises in store.

I try not too. I don't like being spoiled. :) I'm just happy Canada's CBC is airing Doctor Who. I was thinking they dumped it since it'd been so long since they aired Series 1 of the new DW.

Coco Pops
May 18th, 2008, 02:29 AM
Hi guys sorry to bring up an old episode again but watching these this week again one thing that really made my eyes roll was the whole thing with Yvonne... "British Empire" WTF???

Despite brushing it off it both bugged me and amused at the same time if that makes sense...

Hasn't the same actress done a previous episode too? She was wonderful in this one but I'm sure she's done a previous Who story.

Gamma626
October 25th, 2010, 09:41 AM
Nice buildup to the finale.

mi_guard
September 16th, 2011, 03:21 AM
Yvonne Hartman: Oh, you travel with her mother!?
Jackie: He kidnapped me!
The Doctor: Please, when Torchwood comes to write my complete history, don't tell people I travelled through time and space with her mother!
Jackie: Charming!
The Doctor: I've got a reputation to uphold!

:lol: loved those lines :)

maneth
June 28th, 2012, 11:01 AM
:lol: Me too. Great ep! Somehow the Cybermen didn't seem as scary as they did in the earlier eps... Don't know why. Great to see Mickey back, and boy has he improved when he's no longer the third wheel...

maneth
August 12th, 2014, 10:31 AM
And I still agree with myself... :p