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GateWorld
April 14th, 2006, 01:23 PM
<DIV ALIGN=CENTER><TABLE WIDTH=450 BORDER=0 CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=7><TR><TD STYLE="border:0;"><DIV ALIGN=LEFT><FONT FACE="Arial" SIZE=2 COLOR="#000000"><A HREF="http://www.scifistream.com/doctor-who/s2/"><IMG SRC="http://www.scifistream.com/wp-content/uploads/205.jpg" WIDTH=160 HEIGHT=120 ALIGN=RIGHT HSPACE=10 VSPACE=2 BORDER=0 STYLE="border:1px solid #000;" ALT="Visit the Episode Guide"></A><FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#888888">DOCTOR WHO SERIES 28</FONT>
<FONT SIZE=4><A HREF="http://www.scifistream.com/doctor-who/s2/" STYLE="text-decoration: none">RISE OF THE CYBERMEN</A></FONT>
<FONT SIZE=1>EPISODE NUMBER - 2805</FONT>
<IMG SRC="/images/clear.gif" WIDTH=1 HEIGHT=10 ALT="">
The TARDIS falls through a crack in the universe and into a parallel reality, where an ailing corporate tycoon named John Lumic is plotting to conquer the world -- and cheat death -- with his latest mechanical creations.

<FONT SIZE=1><B><A HREF="http://www.scifistream.com/doctor-who/s2/">VISIT THE EPISODE GUIDE >></A></B></FONT></FONT></DIV></TD></TR></TABLE></DIV>

Egeria
May 13th, 2006, 03:44 PM
I thought this ep was great.:) To me, it felt a lot more old-school Who. It was nice as a viewer to be aware of the plot and watch the Doc having to figure things out. The scene with the homeless folks being converted to Cybermen to the tune of 'In the Jungle' was just distubing, I loved it, especially watching the reactions on my kids faces - they were totally creeped out (as was I).

Not to sure about RLPs portrayal of Lumic, seemed a bit 'odd' and I couldn't get over the Davros thing. Not such a light-hearted episode and lacking the ususal 'fun', but I thought it was brilliant. The cliffhanger was excellent, loving the lack of a trailer for next week, good on the Beeb for keeping us in suspense. We need more 2-parters! :D

*edit* LOL, just had my youngest up...she'd had a nightmare about the Cybermen (she rarely has nightmares). Love it! :D

Metarock Sam
May 13th, 2006, 03:47 PM
OMG This episode was FANTASTIC !!!!!!!!!!!!!
Perfecting moments of spine-chilling terror and laugh our loud humour altogether. So Brilliant !!!!
Those Cybermen so beautifully reallistic not the silver nemesis anymore . So fantastic although I have a little niggle on the fact their mouths light up when they talk but aprat from that they are basically perfect !!!!!!!!
Rose the Dog was great I laughed alot there expecially with Rose and the Doctor's reaction !!!
Rickey, Londons most wanted !!!!!
in the jungle the mighty jungle people are cybernised !!!!!!! seriously I was rolling on the floor and laughed so hard I cried.
10/10 utterly fantastic.
ANd they didnt have an episode preview for next week which is good cos it lets the suspense last all week !!! I cant wait !!!!!!!!!!!!
And I know for sure that I wont get Bluetooth XD

in circles
May 13th, 2006, 03:54 PM
It was good but it really could have done with a bit more happening. The Cybermen should have shown up a bit earlier and there was too much of Jackie and Pete basically repeating what they said in Fathers Day. The Cybermen look awesome though and for once they're creepy and threatening. Lumic wouldn't have been out of place hamming it up in a Tom Baker episode.

Prior_of_the_Ori
May 13th, 2006, 07:52 PM
"You will be deleted" lol this was a fantastic episode :D different then the Dalek one though as i was more psyched on seeing that one. Maybe because this episode was kind of spoiled as its all over the news and all :-/ but still very cool.

ShadowMaat
May 13th, 2006, 08:09 PM
The CLOMP CLOMP CLOMP is actually scarier than the "DELETE! DELETE! DELETE!" if you ask me. ;)

Great ep. I had a feeling it was going to wind up being a two-parter and that I was going to be very annoyed by it. LOL!

I absolutely LOVE Rickey/Mickey. Nice to see him finally being filled in as a character. The scene with Gram was very touching. Dunno who the spike-haired kid is who's working with Rickey, but he's kinda cute. :D I have a feeling he isn't gonna survive, though. *sigh* Interesting to see how much... stronger? More self-assured? Rickey is compared to Mickey. I hope Mickey takes a few pages from his counterpart's book.

I didn't find the Pete/Jackie stuff repetitive, I saw it as more of a "some things are inevitable" thing.

Loved the Doctor laughing at Rose the Dog. :D

Dallista
May 13th, 2006, 11:10 PM
One thing I found particularly interesting is the fact that Mickey's AU counterpart isn't actually evil. It's become such a stereotype to make the AU version of good characters evil baddies; I like how this Mickey is actively opposing Lumic.

Good episode, although at times a bit too much about the non-main characters. I'd have liked to see more of the Doctor. *shrug* Love the scene where he breathes life onto the crystal. Ten years of his life, worth every second, hehe.

Interesting that Marc Platt got thanked in the end credits, presumably for his audio drama Spare Parts (Fifth Doctor). I'll have to listen to it again sometime.

cvife
May 14th, 2006, 01:21 AM
that was awsome, i loves that the alternitive mickey is called rickey and is less of a coward, rose the dog was funny, and the cybermen where very cool, dare i say far better than the borg ever where, especially with the new visual effects although i think thay may have a problem if thay come up againced the daleks in episode 12/13 if thay can only electricute i wonder whwre torchwood is if the cybermen are working to take over the world, there was a mention of them but no appearence...
all in all very cool episode and i cant wait for the next one.

Easter Lily
May 14th, 2006, 01:28 AM
I thought this ep was great.:) To me, it felt a lot more old-school Who.
It's pretty much what I thought as well.
I'm probably in the minority here but I like this episode more than the previous one (even though that was a terrific story) and I think it boils down to the fact that I watch Dr Who for monsters, cheesy villains and a good romp. I think that there's a part of me that is still strenuously resisting any suggestion of the Doctor romancing chick of the week, which is strange when one considers that I came to Dr Who in my late teens.

I rank this episode second only to Tooth and Claw in terms of narrative and I didn't at all feel any lag in pacing. I liked the fact that the story took its time to develop and that we didn't get to see the Cyberman until much later. I didn't mind the cheesy villain and I accredited his affected way of talking to his increasing meglomania and complete physiological degeneration. Unlike many others, I liked the inclusion of the Tylers into this story... which I thought was pretty nifty. The Mickey/Ricky angle was quite hilarious. What's with Ricky by the way... he seems to have difficulty moving his mouth when talking... :P

Guh... didn't Tennant look great in a tux... which begs the question of why hasn't any incarnation ever done so previously?

Willow'sCat
May 14th, 2006, 02:12 AM
I really really loved this, they had it so right, even with Rose the dog. Suspense, humour sentimentality and horror! Well that song was pretty bad. :P

It had everything including a dead T.A.R.D.I.S :( Actually can someone explain this to me... Doesn't the T.A.R.D.I.S have two or three consoles? Are they all linked? Has RTD just thrown that handbook out? I know I don't get the time/dimensional thing, never do too confusing for me *makes my little head hurt* I just thought if you blew out one you could use another and what is with the light thing anyway? That was a little too easily solved IMO. :cool:


Not to sure about RLPs portrayal of Lumic, seemed a bit 'odd' and I couldn't get over the Davros thing.OMG! I know, I wish they hadn't done it like that, I haven't seen the confidential yet so anyone know if they talk about the similarity? As for his portrayal a little too cheesy evil guy for my liking but I guess it worked if you believe he is NUTS! :S

*edit* LOL, just had my youngest up...she'd had a nightmare about the Cybermen (she rarely has nightmares). Love it! :D :p Oh I mean that is terrible. ;)

The Signal
May 14th, 2006, 02:31 AM
Looks like im goning to break from the norm on this one. (this is partially copied from my review on Outpost Gallifrey)


Well, I can say, without a doubt that this was the absolute WORST episode of the revival yet. It was flat dull and uninteresting. It felt inhuman, the Doctor brushing off the death of the TARDIS in an instant and neither Rose or Mickey bothered abut being in a world world that is not their own, and being stuck there forever. And that was just the first few minutes!
The story was a basic Cybermen episode with little going for it. They tried to ge the feel of a classic episode, and IMO they failed, the Faux Classic Who feel felt as the 1996 Movie did, synthetic and forced. The suspence was based around the Doctor figuring things out, and yet there was so little of that about, he spent longer keeping Rose in check than anything else because nothing actually happened to make him suspect anything until near the end.
Pete was nowhere near as likeable as he was in Fathers Day, and everything that episode achieved has been tainted IMO. Jackie was plain pathetic, it was like watching someone else try to act her character out. Terrible writing for her.
Rickey. The Rickey scenes were badly acted, Noel is better than that, and all he did to get into another character was scowl and grit his teeth, so yeah that makes him totally new.
David Tennant was far from on form, last week he was so perfect it was fantastic, this week it was as though he was fresh out of school with nothing more than a GCSE in Drama, this was certainly not the work of a man classically trained.
Rose's need for a father, which was possibly the highlight of her character last year, was very weak if you ask me. Yes she went against the Doctor to get what she wanted again, whoich would have been good had it been done well, but it simply wasnt.
Mickey on th other hand was a delight to watch. His tearfull reunion with his Grandmother was a little over done, but at the same time the levels of emotion are certainly called for. Strange that Noel played a disapointing role, and a very good one, in the same episode.
I wont even go into the disgraceful performance of Lumic, he was badly thought out anyway, but seriously I dont know what they were thinking casting a comic actor as a villain.
I cannot blame the actors. Why? Because they are better than that, they are some of the best actors on British TV, so that can only lead to one inevitable thing. Writing. And lo and behold, the writer was a fresh new writer who had no experience with the characters.
The whole thing was a waste of time IMO, and an insult to the Cybermen of Classic Who.
I can only hope that the second part is a better episode.

Rating: 1/10 - And that is simply for Mickey's reunion with his grandmother.

Favourite Quote: "To Be Continued" Was possibly the best part of the script

Metarock Sam
May 14th, 2006, 02:44 AM
Steady on Ptah. It wasnt that bad.

Metarock Sam
May 14th, 2006, 03:51 AM
Yes you do have the right to speak your mind. Although in this case it is a little harsh :).

Jonzey
May 14th, 2006, 04:10 AM
Well I liked it :)

But then, I'm easily pleased. If I'm entertained then it's good in my book.
My only problem (actually with the series is a whole) is the voices they give the daleks and the cybermen are sometimes kinda hard to understand, so you really gotta pay attention to what they're saying.

Egeria
May 14th, 2006, 04:40 AM
I was hanging out at OG last night, and there does seem to be quite a split of opinion on this ep. Fair play to you Ptah, it'd be boring if we all agreed with each other. Better to state your honest opinion than just agree for the sake of it. :D

Flyboy
May 14th, 2006, 04:42 AM
I had my issues with this episode as well... though it could be because I feel rather ill at the moment. But let me go through what I hated and what I loved.

Hated:

Lumic - His voice is annoying as hell, he is TOO cheesy, he's not even carrying it off as good as Davros did... Lumic is just annoying. In fact a lot of the voices of people in this, the preseident, Pete Tyler, and others... their voices just sound too... slow and rergh...

Altnernate Universes - I LIKED how they arrived there, but I hate AU's, probabley because Im far too aware of the science surrounding them. By definition it's actually IMPOSSIBLE to ever return to your own, but that's NEVER dealt with. Because as soon as you leave, your universe ceases to exist as its constantly changing and splitting into more AU's. But I won't go ointo a scientific rant.

Rose Tyler - How often do we have to go through this pathetic "oh im so pathetic and have so much hurt in my life that im going to ignore the doctor and do whatever I want.... AGAIN"

When Mickey was having a go at the doctor for always favouring Rose... the doc *really* should have said "You have more brains than her!".

Delete Delete Delete - It FELT like at the end they were gonna say EXTERMINATE. Why do all enemy's have to have a catch phrase!?

I'm also worried about going against canon with the origin of the Cybermen... here was me thinking that they were from Mondas originally...

Rose's remarks about Lucy, making it look more and more like they're in a relationship! GAH!

Lumic's voice.

Good things:

Loved the actual apearance and style of the cybermen. They were very cool.

Loved the "In the jungle stuff" very eerie.

The dead TARDIS.

THe attempted explanation of AU travel.

The doctor's line "its happening again" which gives me SOME hope that there will be an explanation as to why the Cybermen have been built be a human.

Mickey showed promise in this episode. Especially his initial grasp of the situation. Rickey... annoying as hell.

And yes David Tennant did look especially good in the tux.

I like Mickey as a companion much better than Rose. If only they'd get rid of her.

***

To me... this DIDNT feel like a "classic who romp". It lacked the charatcer development of the sub characters and made some of them frankly annoying. There are things that really should have been elaborated on. The curfew... presence of Soldiers (score one for the military again!). A classic who romp needs you to feel affection for sub characters and know them...it doesn't work being half hearted.

Wraith Scientist
May 14th, 2006, 04:59 AM
I'm also worried about going against canon with the origin of the Cybermen... here was me thinking that they were from Mondas originally...

It might not contradict cannon

In Dalek, the Doctor sees the head of a cyberman in a glass cabinet, and says: "Oh! Look at you! ... an old friend of mine ... well, enemy. The stuff of nightmares reduced to an exhibit. I'm getting old"

He has seen the cybermen before ... presumably the ones from Mondas

He also says "It's happening again" when he sees the cybermen, maybe meaning that what happened on Mondas is also happening in the AU.

... or maybe in the next ep it will turn out to be real Mondas cybermen controlling Lumic and Cybus Corp.

... or maybe the Mondas cybermen were trapped in the AU with the demise of the time lords and so began manipulating events to convert the AU Humans into cybermen and establish a power base in the AU. Maybe the Doctor will unwittingly let them back into his universe.

... or maybe they'll sort out things in the AU, go home and find the Mondas cybermen attacking Earth or something?

... or maybe Mondas was the AU Earth that they found! In the AU, the cybermen establish a civilisation on the AU Earth and tunnel into our universe, using the entire planet as a spaceship and naming it Mondas

... or maybe I just have a hyperactive imagination ;)

pbellosom
May 14th, 2006, 04:59 AM
Well I liked it :)

My only problem (actually with the series is a whole) is the voices they give the daleks and the cybermen are sometimes kinda hard to understand, so you really gotta pay attention to what they're saying.

I had that problem, I wasn't able to hear why, at the end, the cybermen didn't accept their surrender and its really bugging me. Did they actually say why in that piece of dialogue I coulden't hear or will that be explained in the next episode?

Egeria
May 14th, 2006, 05:01 AM
I had that problem, I wasn't able to hear why, at the end, the cybermen didn't accept their surrender and its really bugging me. Did they actually say why in that piece of dialogue I coulden't hear or will that be explained in the next episode?

I think they said that they were 'incompatible' because they were 'rogue elements'. :)

Flyboy
May 14th, 2006, 05:03 AM
I think they said that they were 'incompatible' because they were 'rogue elements'. :)
Thanks for that! :D

Damn it! It seems I green the same people far too often... Sorry Egeria.. I tried.

Easter Lily
May 14th, 2006, 05:06 AM
I think too that it is the first of a two parter so of course there would be things that aren't completely explained... I don't see it as a problem as such.
But I understood the curfew to mean one of two things... this brave new world was pretty much an oligarchy under the influence of the Cybus Corporation, so it was a control thing or that the authorities on a countrywide alert for the large numbers of disappearances. Works for me either way.

And I loved the Torchwood references.

Egeria
May 14th, 2006, 05:06 AM
Thanks for that! :D

No probs....I missed it when I watched it last night. I only picked up on it this morning whilst capping the ep. :D

Reefgirl
May 14th, 2006, 05:08 AM
I liked this I never particularly liked the Cybermen in the Classic Who but these were much better, Proper Sci Fi robots (I know they're not really robots but who cares this IS primerily entertainment) The marching boots frightened the bejesus out of my daughter and I found it creepy too. I loved the reunion between Mickey and his Gran (Brilliantly played as usual by Mona Hammond)
As we all know, Mickey leaves the Tardis in the next ep, I reckon Ricky gets killed and Mickey takes his place
Fans of Classic Who feel obliged to pick holes in New Who for some odd reason. Russell T Davis has said time and time again he has remade Dr Who for a new audiance, it's a completely new show
and he doesn't want to keep going back to the old style just to please a few malcontents. Remember, it's a TV show, it's entertainment, treat it as such.

Flyboy
May 14th, 2006, 05:20 AM
Fans of Classic Who feel obliged to pick holes in New Who for some odd reason. Russell T Davis has said time and time again he has remade Dr Who for a new audiance, it's a completely new show
and he doesn't want to keep going back to the old style just to please a few malcontents. Remember, it's a TV show, it's entertainment, treat it as such.

Well yes, and as a completely new show, I absolutely love it, I really dont mind any more that it IS a new show. HOWEVER - based on this, it should NOT try to replicate the feel of Classic Who, it won't work, but at the same time, it should still try not to contradict past mythology.

Nel
May 14th, 2006, 05:46 AM
I have to say I didn't enjoy this one as much as the others in this Season so far. And I'm not really sure why.

There were very good bits - the rounding up of the homeless people, the appearance of the Cybermen at the party was scary and effective, and Mickey and his Gran, especially when he saw the torn carpet, was very effective.

But I found I was bored at bits, and felt a bit restless when watching it. Why did Rose and Mickey just ignore the doctor? Okay so they do tend to do their own thing, but not out of stupidity, which seemed the case in this episode. They were being ruled by their emotions and nothing else.

I think part of the problem was the pace of the episode, it was as if they had not quite enough material for a two parter, but too much for one episode, and so there were fill in bits. And there wasn't enough of the Doctor for my liking.

Saying all that, I'm still going to watch next week to see how they avoid being deleted.

mentalmichael
May 14th, 2006, 06:44 AM
Good and bad in almost equal parts - I liked the basic idea, liked the alternate parents (great to see Rose's father back - I loved in in the last series). Mickey + Rickey was a nice touch as well.

However, although I liked the character of Lumic I thought they chose the wring actor for him - just wasn't convincing. My big problem though is the cybermen. They just weren't scary. When the Daleks returned it was impressive, but these guys are just the same thing (Delete vs Exterminate, desire to destroy all humans etc) but without the guns. I don't mind them bringing old enemies back, but just not these. Hopefully after the next episode there won't be any more cybermen episodes.

ShadowMaat
May 14th, 2006, 06:46 AM
I wasn't anywhere near as disappointed with the ep as Ptah was, but I don't think he deserves to be pissed on and dismissed (along with OP) just because he dared to say he didn't like something.

I'm not so elitist that I can't accept the idea that someone hates something I liked. And as someone who never saw Who before that TV movie a few years back, I can at least understand that I'm missing out on huge chunks of history and that others might not be pleased by recent developments.

I think the reason Rose and Mickey weren't concerned about the death of the TARDIS is because they figured, "Oh, the Doctor will fix it!" I do, however, think the "one glowing power cell" thing and the Doctor breathing life into it was a bit of a cop-out. I'd rather have seen help come from an OUTSIDE source, totally unrelated to the Doctor. Maybe Rickey has picked up a few odds and ends or something. At the very least, don't let something as monumental as the death be easily solved in the first ten minutes. :rolleyes: I admit, that was kind of disappointing, IMO.

I'd also like to know WTF happened to the time vortex and is that going to be part of the ongoing storyline or was it just a plot device to dump them in an AU? Because I should think that the time vortex ceasing to exist should be a pretty monumental thing and I'm kinda surprised THAT wasn't given more attention.

Jax
May 14th, 2006, 06:49 AM
I had my issues with this episode as well... though it could be because I feel rather ill at the moment. But let me go through what I hated and what I loved.

I have to agree entirely. It just wasn't that good and left me feeling this was the worst of season two so far.

Pro's
-----
The TARDIS falling out of the vortex and almost being destroyed.

Mickey was great, with Noel Clarke doing a tremendous job. It made me wish we had more of him then of Rose, not that that's a hard thing.

The revamped Cybermen were very well done. I was a little worried to begin with, but those worries quickly disappeared when they started talking and killing. Gotta love the tearducts.

Even though I saw the "Rose the dog" joke a mile off, I still laughed out loud at it.

Cons
-----
No insult to Billie Piper, who is a fantastic and beautiful actress, but I just can't stand Rose, not as a companion and especially not as a love interest. She's almost starting to surpass Adric in annoyance levels. It hurts to think I'm going to have to put up wth her for another season.

The Tylers... No more please... The actor and actress are great, but enough please.

That "delete" catchphrase is the worst and was used in exactly the same way as "exterminate", being said over and over again.

The villian was just plain bad and I don't mean evil bad, I mean rubbish bad.

Reefgirl
May 14th, 2006, 07:25 AM
I thought Lumic sounded a little 'Trigger-ish' in parts, I know RLP is a great actor but towards the end I thought I heard Trigger, and Owen slip in now and agin

Commander Ivanova
May 14th, 2006, 07:33 AM
The villian was just plain bad and I don't mean evil bad, I mean rubbish bad.

LOL! The actor was deliberately hamming it up, so much I can still smell the bacon.

ShadowMaat
May 14th, 2006, 07:46 AM
I didn't really "get" Lumic. I mean, yes, he wants to create a metal body so he can live forever, but the nature of the Cybermen means they're completely at the mercy of outside forces to control them and I simply can't see Lumic taking a chance like that- getting some nifty "metal skin" only to become someone else's puppet. Unless he has delusions that HE will be the one in control. I suppose its possible he does think that, but it still seems a bit of a stretch...

Dallista
May 14th, 2006, 07:54 AM
Is it just me, or in the last scene, with the Doctor saying he surrenders, is he holding the green crystal/power cell thing in his right hand? Is that why he's making fists with both hands, in order to conceal the crystal?

And... could it be a plot point in the second episode? There's gotta be something more to the thing than just a simple quick fix to get the TARDIS working again, right?

BC - 303
May 14th, 2006, 08:07 AM
Personaly i liked the whole "we are nothing, in the void of space and time, a dead zone" (or something along those lines) And Mickey goes "yer thats London for you"

And i liked the Zeplins, i want one!

Flyboy
May 14th, 2006, 08:11 AM
Personaly i liked the whole "we are nothing, in the void of space and time, a dead zone" (or something along those lines) And Mickey goes "yer thats London for you"

And i liked the Zeplins, i want one!
Unfortunatly, all I could think of when they were in the "sort of nowhere place" was "The Mind Robber" from the Troughton era. When the Doctor takes the TARDIS deliberatly out of space and time by hitting a buttonbecause there was no time to orchestrate a proper escape from being buried by lava...

Reefgirl
May 14th, 2006, 09:17 AM
I didn't really "get" Lumic. I mean, yes, he wants to create a metal body so he can live forever, but the nature of the Cybermen means they're completely at the mercy of outside forces to control them and I simply can't see Lumic taking a chance like that- getting some nifty "metal skin" only to become someone else's puppet. Unless he has delusions that HE will be the one in control. I suppose its possible he does think that, but it still seems a bit of a stretch...
Some people are so desperate to live they'll do anything to achive it, even refuse to listen to common sense. Remember Adrian Conrad?

Flyboy
May 14th, 2006, 09:20 AM
I couldn't for the live of me think of WHY everyone in the party was being deleted when only the President refused. I can understand why the doctor and co are "rogue elements" however... They dont have ear pieces... Hence they are incompatable.

Jonzey
May 14th, 2006, 09:24 AM
I couldn't for the live of me think of WHY everyone in the party was being deleted when only the President refused. I can understand why the doctor and co are "rogue elements" however... They dont have ear pieces... Hence they are incompatable.
Malfunction?

I don't know much about old who, but if the Cybermen were created by humans (or something similar), then at some point they must have turned against their creators to become their own free-thinking race, right?

Flyboy
May 14th, 2006, 09:29 AM
Yes but they were from the planet Mondas as far as I'm aware. Not earth made at all...



Origins

Mondas as it appeared in The Tenth Planet.Cybermen were originally a wholly organic species of humanoids that began to implant more and more artificial parts into their bodies. This led to the race becoming coldly logical and calculating, with emotions usually only shown when naked aggression was called for. Although the Cybermen often claim that they have done away with human emotion, they have exhibited emotions ranging from anger to smug satisfaction in their confrontations with the Doctor. The Virgin Missing Adventures novel Killing Ground by Steve Lyons suggests that some Cybermen imitate emotions to intimidate and unnerve their victims.

The race originated on the planet Mondas, Earth's twin planet in prehistoric times, which was knocked out of solar orbit and drifted into deep space. The Mondasians, fearful for their race's survival, sent out spacecraft to colonise other worlds, including Telos, where they pushed the native Cryons aside and used the planet to house vast tombs where they could take refuge in suspended animation when necessary.

On Mondas, the natives installed a drive propulsion system so they could pilot the planet itself through space. As the original race was limited in numbers and were continually being depleted, the Mondasians — now Cybermen — became a race of conquerors who reproduced by taking other organic beings and forcibly changing them into Cybermen. The origins of the Cybermen were further elaborated upon in the previously mentioned audio play, Spare Parts, starring Peter Davison as the Fifth Doctor.

[edit]
The Earth invasions

Cybermen from the 1967 serial The MoonbaseThe Cybermen's first attempt at invading Earth, around 1970, was chronicled in The Invasion. The Cybermen had allied themselves with industrialist Tobias Vaughn, who installed mind control circuits in electrical appliances manufactured by his International Electromatics company, paving the way for a ground invasion. This was uncovered by the newly formed United Nations Intelligence Taskforce, who repelled the invasion with the help of the Second Doctor.

In The Tenth Planet, the First Doctor met an advance force of Cybermen that landed near an Antarctic space tracking station in the year 1986. This advance force was to prepare for the return of Mondas to the solar system. As Mondas approached, it began to drain Earth's energy for the Cybermen's use, but in the process absorbed too much energy and disintegrated. The Cybermen on Earth also fell apart as their homeworld was destroyed.

In 1988 a fleet of Cyber warships was assembled to turn Earth into New Mondas. A scouting party was sent to Earth in search of the legendary Nemesis statue, a Time Lord artifact of immense power, made of the "living metal" validium. Due to the machinations of the Seventh Doctor, however, the Nemesis destroyed the entire Cyber-fleet instead. (Silver Nemesis).

In 2012, the inert head of a Cyberman was part of the Vault, a collection of alien artefacts belonging to American billionaire Henry van Statten (Dalek, 2005). According to its label, it was recovered from the London sewers in 1975 and presumably came from the 1970 invasion attempt, although it is of a design only seen in Revenge of the Cybermen, which took place in the late 29th century. (In a metafictional sense, the label is accurate, as Revenge was broadcast in 1975.)[2]

By the mid-21st century, mankind had reached beyond its planet and set up space stations in deep space. One of these, Space Station W3, known as "The Wheel," was the site of a takeover by Cybermen who wanted to use it as a staging point for yet another invasion of Earth. The Second Doctor and his companions prevented this in The Wheel in Space.

The Cybermen returned in The Moonbase. By the year 2070, Earth's weather was being controlled by the Gravitron installation on the Moon. The Cybermen planned to use the Gravitron to disrupt the planet's weather patterns and destroy all life on it, eliminating a threat to their survival. This attempt was also stopped by the Second Doctor.



God bless Wiki!

beale947
May 14th, 2006, 09:36 AM
Great episode:D. The delete thing was a bit disapponing, to much like the darleks. Another thing, in the origian the Cybermen were intelligent and could think on there own however in this one, all they seem to do is to take orders and turn people into more cybermen, that is a let down.

ShadowMaat
May 14th, 2006, 09:38 AM
Great episode:D. The delete thing was a bit disapponing, to much like the darleks. Another thing, in the origian the Cybermen were intelligent and could think on there own however in this one, all they seem to do is to take orders and turn people into more cybermen, that is a let down.
Maybe this is going to be the start of a rebellion. Lumis thought he was creating a race of automatons who would obey his every command (OBEY! OBEY! OBEY! hee!) and instead he finds himself losing control and will ultimately be destroyed by his own creations.

Kinda predictible, though...

beale947
May 14th, 2006, 09:44 AM
Maybe this is going to be the start of a rebellion. Lumis thought he was creating a race of automatons who would obey his every command (OBEY! OBEY! OBEY! hee!) and instead he finds himself losing control and will ultimately be destroyed by his own creations.

Kinda predictible, though...

:P Another 'darleks' if they do that again then i will be annoyed

dipsofjazz
May 14th, 2006, 09:52 AM
I quite enjoyed this episode, although it's not my favourite. I felt it was a little slow, but I suppose that could be because it was setting things up for next week's episode.
I liked the rounding up of the homeless people, and I loved the 'clump'...'clump' of the boots. I'm glad we didn't actually see the Cybermen until later on, as it upped the excitement. I thought the song playing whilst the homeless were being converted to Cybermen was great, and I also liked the visuals of the inside of the factory.

I'm getting rather bored with the Tyler family, and felt there was a little too much of them. I've also had enough of the Rose/her dad stuff.
I felt that Rose was a real pain in the mik'ta at the beginning, running off without listening to what the Doctor was saying.
I did enjoy Mickey/Ricky, and liked the visit to his gran. I just wish the actor would open his mouth a bit more so I can make out what he's saying.
Lumic was a bit over the top as the baddie, but I suppose it fits in with the cheesy feel of Doctor Who.

Overall, I thought this was a good set up for next week's episode, and I look forward to seeing how the Doctor's going to stop the cybermen.


I'm old enough to have watched Doctor Who when it started in the '60s, and I always remember liking the Daleks, but being really scared of the Cybermen. I think this is why I've been looking forward to seeing them return....so I can be scared again!

dipsofjazz
May 14th, 2006, 09:54 AM
I couldn't for the live of me think of WHY everyone in the party was being deleted when only the President refused. I can understand why the doctor and co are "rogue elements" however... They dont have ear pieces... Hence they are incompatable.
Plus they are from an AU, so perhaps the Cybermen can feel that there's something different about them?

Flyboy
May 14th, 2006, 09:55 AM
Yep, always a possibility... they have a different sort of energy of course...

Jonzey
May 14th, 2006, 10:19 AM
Yes but they were from the planet Mondas as far as I'm aware. Not earth made at all...



Origins

Mondas as it appeared in The Tenth Planet.Cybermen were originally a wholly organic species of humanoids that began to implant more and more artificial parts into their bodies. This led to the race becoming coldly logical and calculating, with emotions usually only shown when naked aggression was called for. Although the Cybermen often claim that they have done away with human emotion, they have exhibited emotions ranging from anger to smug satisfaction in their confrontations with the Doctor. The Virgin Missing Adventures novel Killing Ground by Steve Lyons suggests that some Cybermen imitate emotions to intimidate and unnerve their victims.

The race originated on the planet Mondas, Earth's twin planet in prehistoric times, which was knocked out of solar orbit and drifted into deep space. The Mondasians, fearful for their race's survival, sent out spacecraft to colonise other worlds, including Telos, where they pushed the native Cryons aside and used the planet to house vast tombs where they could take refuge in suspended animation when necessary.

On Mondas, the natives installed a drive propulsion system so they could pilot the planet itself through space. As the original race was limited in numbers and were continually being depleted, the Mondasians — now Cybermen — became a race of conquerors who reproduced by taking other organic beings and forcibly changing them into Cybermen. The origins of the Cybermen were further elaborated upon in the previously mentioned audio play, Spare Parts, starring Peter Davison as the Fifth Doctor.

[edit]
The Earth invasions

Cybermen from the 1967 serial The MoonbaseThe Cybermen's first attempt at invading Earth, around 1970, was chronicled in The Invasion. The Cybermen had allied themselves with industrialist Tobias Vaughn, who installed mind control circuits in electrical appliances manufactured by his International Electromatics company, paving the way for a ground invasion. This was uncovered by the newly formed United Nations Intelligence Taskforce, who repelled the invasion with the help of the Second Doctor.

In The Tenth Planet, the First Doctor met an advance force of Cybermen that landed near an Antarctic space tracking station in the year 1986. This advance force was to prepare for the return of Mondas to the solar system. As Mondas approached, it began to drain Earth's energy for the Cybermen's use, but in the process absorbed too much energy and disintegrated. The Cybermen on Earth also fell apart as their homeworld was destroyed.

In 1988 a fleet of Cyber warships was assembled to turn Earth into New Mondas. A scouting party was sent to Earth in search of the legendary Nemesis statue, a Time Lord artifact of immense power, made of the "living metal" validium. Due to the machinations of the Seventh Doctor, however, the Nemesis destroyed the entire Cyber-fleet instead. (Silver Nemesis).

In 2012, the inert head of a Cyberman was part of the Vault, a collection of alien artefacts belonging to American billionaire Henry van Statten (Dalek, 2005). According to its label, it was recovered from the London sewers in 1975 and presumably came from the 1970 invasion attempt, although it is of a design only seen in Revenge of the Cybermen, which took place in the late 29th century. (In a metafictional sense, the label is accurate, as Revenge was broadcast in 1975.)[2]

By the mid-21st century, mankind had reached beyond its planet and set up space stations in deep space. One of these, Space Station W3, known as "The Wheel," was the site of a takeover by Cybermen who wanted to use it as a staging point for yet another invasion of Earth. The Second Doctor and his companions prevented this in The Wheel in Space.

The Cybermen returned in The Moonbase. By the year 2070, Earth's weather was being controlled by the Gravitron installation on the Moon. The Cybermen planned to use the Gravitron to disrupt the planet's weather patterns and destroy all life on it, eliminating a threat to their survival. This attempt was also stopped by the Second Doctor.



God bless Wiki!Ah, ok. Thanks for clearing that up. Well maybe these cybermen are not actually cybermen, they just look similar.

Flyboy
May 14th, 2006, 10:25 AM
I think someone said earlier that maybe it could have been that Lumic found a piece of Cyberman technology... maybe he has agents inside Torchwood, and he's been using those plans to help make his own Cybermen..

Or there's a cyberleader behind Lumic manipulating him.

Egeria
May 14th, 2006, 10:35 AM
Or there's a cyberleader behind Lumic manipulating him.

I reckon Lumic is going to 'cyber-ize' himself and become the Cyberleader. I started thinking this when I rewatched the ep today. The scene where they're mobilizing the Cybermen.... Lumic is speaking to Mr Crane asking how things are progressing. Crane then asks something along the lines of 'what about you' to Lumic, and he replies "I'm arriving Mr Crane, prepare the factory". I'm probably totally wrong, and reading things that aren't there....but heyho. :D

Jonzey
May 14th, 2006, 10:38 AM
I reckon Lumic is going to 'cyber-ize' himself and become the Cyberleader. I started thinking this when I rewatched the ep today. The scene where they're mobilizing the Cybermen.... Lumic is speaking to Mr Crane asking how things are progressing. Crane then asks something along the lines of 'what about you' to Lumic, and he replies "I'm arriving Mr Crane, prepare the factory". I'm probably totally wrong, and reading things that aren't there....but heyho. :D
I think that's what they're gonna do. After all, Lumic doesn't want to die. He could make some supercybersuit for himself so he can command all the cybermen from it.

Do you reckon the cybermen will get into our reality?

Wraith Scientist
May 14th, 2006, 10:41 AM
I think someone said earlier that maybe it could have been that Lumic found a piece of Cyberman technology... maybe he has agents inside Torchwood, and he's been using those plans to help make his own Cybermen..

Or there's a cyberleader behind Lumic manipulating him.

That's what I was thinking too. The Cybermen were quite fond of infiltration and using companies as fronts weren't they.

Where does the AU fit in though. If there are Mondas Cybermen manipulating Lumic then how did they get to the AU?

Mondas Cybermen probably exist in the new DW too, since the Doctor sees the head of one in Dalek (one of the older models). When he sees the Cybermen in this ep (Rise of the Cybermen) he says "It's happening again" and "I've seen them before".

Or maybe they're just another 'version' of the Cybermen (notice they're not refered to as Cybermen by Cybus, Lumic, or themselves), and it's just history repeating itself.

We'll see next week ...

Flyboy
May 14th, 2006, 10:50 AM
It's likely that the Cybermen from Mondas exist in the AU as well. Afterall, the defining event that seperates that universe from ours cant have happened that long ago, shortly before Rickey's birth actually. I'd say...

Most things MUST be the same... In any case...

It must either be that Lumic FOUND cyber tech with or without Torchwood's help, OR is in cahoots with Cybermen and thinks he has a way to live on. If its just a coincidence, I'll be VERY peeved.

Wraith Scientist
May 14th, 2006, 10:51 AM
I think that's what they're gonna do. After all, Lumic doesn't want to die. He could make some supercybersuit for himself so he can command all the cybermen from it.

Do you reckon the cybermen will get into our reality?

There are rumors that some of the later episodes (Army of Ghosts and Doomsday, I believe) will involve a war between the Cybermen and the Daleks

BTW, I wonder if there's an AU version of the Doctor :eek:

Flyboy
May 14th, 2006, 10:52 AM
God I hope "They" aren't returning. And i'm not referring to the Cybermen... who blatantly will. It fits the pattern of last years series.

Jonzey
May 14th, 2006, 10:57 AM
BTW, I wonder if there's an AU version of the Doctor :eek:
I was just thinking that actually. I mean, the Torchwood institute exists, which was set up by Queen Vic after meeting the Doctor. But of course the Doctor never met Rose- so maybe he never went to sattelite five, so maybe he didn't fight the daleks, so maybe he didn't absorb the energy of the tardis, so maybe he never regenerated, so maybe Christopher Eccleston will be a guest star in the next episode.

I doubt it, but that would be cool.

The Signal
May 14th, 2006, 11:07 AM
I wonder if there's an AU version of the Doctor :eek:
I would imagine so.
Age Of Steel - Scene 1
"Delete Delete Delete" TARDIS begins to materialise around the group, cut to credit sequence.

Well thats what im expecting anyhow

Flyboy
May 14th, 2006, 11:11 AM
I don't see how it could be an AU version of the 10th Doctor... and I don't think CE would return so soon...

Hulabaloo
May 14th, 2006, 12:06 PM
I loved this ep!!

One thing tho, i felt that he should have hugged the TARDIS console or said "Oh my poor TARDIS!" or something, when it "died". He loves that thing. There wasnt enough emotion in it.

Otherwise i love this ep!

ShadowMaat
May 14th, 2006, 01:28 PM
Well, the Museum of Alien Tech in Dalek had a Cyberman head, so we know they're still out there and in our general era- at least in "our" reality, so maybe there were Cyberman bits in the other reality as well. *shrug*

Do you think "Gemini" is important?

There were TWO references to Torchwood this time around, the publishing of a paper debunking something and one of the bigwigs was at the birthday party. I hope ALL the references aren't going to be so blatant. The Bad Wolf stuff wasn't always this bad, was it? It seemed more subtle... Or I was more oblivious. LOL!

Agree about Rose's parents. The fact that they're having problems both now and then was a nice bit of continuity, but I could have done without seeing them at all. I'm sick of 'em. I've never been fond of Jackie anyway and this familial stuff is just tired. Plus it's a shame to see that Rose learned ABSOLUTELY NOTHING from the events in Father's Day. It being an AU doesn't make it any less pointless to interfere.

Speaking of which, what's the Whovian school of thought on interacting with your AU counterpart? Dangerous? Not dangerous? Starts a cascade failure or something? ;)

yaaayoubetcha
May 14th, 2006, 01:28 PM
I liked the ep rather a lot.

Not as much as Reunion, but still, right up there.

The good:
Glad to see the Cybermen back.

The hilarious mind control scene where the ear buds turn into mini cybermen head handles.

The air masks that dropped down in the TARDIS when the time vortex disappeared, took a sec to figure out what they were, but then couldn't help but laugh.

I said to my wife, IBM invented Blue Tooth, and she said, 'what's bluetooth?' and a second later the Doctor says something about bluetooth.

AU doesn't automatically equal cheesy beards and knife fights.

M(R)ickey and his gran was great.

The bad:
Lumic as Davros...that just really cheesed me.

No Cyberguns? I don't mind the whole electrocution thing, but really...they need their puff tubes.

Delete! Delete! Delete! 'nuff said. Not everything has to be PC command. They could have said they'd be taken to be IPLed and satisfied us mainframers! well...no...i know that would never happen, but still, that was just cheesy and far too similar to the Daleks. As somebody noted above, not every baddy needs a catch phrase.

Was kinda hoping to see a Cybermat.

Rose as the poor, sad, fatherless girl. I know, it's her plot device, but she's normally portrayed as fairly intelligent. I can understand some curiosity, looking them up on the web and whotnot, but to actively seek out her parents while all mopey/sad just seems to stretch her backstory hook too far. Even the 'cute' scene in the street seemed more pathetic than cute.

Torchwood reference seemed forced. Sure, it an AU, no reason to expect Torchwood not to exist...but it still felt stilted.

The neutral:
Uh...the backstory? Where did Lumic find the Cybertech? Torchwood? If so that would have been a better way of mentioning the Institute. If not them, than again, where? They'll need to wrap that up next ep. If it's just left as a random pillaging of alien tech then I'll be somewhat disappointed. Even though it's an AU, it's still the Cybermen, a well established villain and I'd prefer a better explanation than we found a box. Much prefer the story that was layed out in the 'Illegal Alien' book.

barely related:
I wonder if there was a Time War in this universe?

I agree it would be a great device to have a TARDIS with a former incarnation step out. SM or PMcG. Too early to have CE back, would seem too contrived.

I wonder if they're going to do figs?

Jonzey
May 14th, 2006, 01:32 PM
I know what you guys mean about the whole ''delete'' thing. It really seems kinda stupid, especially since it's still a human brain. Just wait til we meet the next robotic race- ''Warning! Enemy detected! Launching task manager!! Control Alt Delete!!''

Matt G
May 14th, 2006, 02:28 PM
OK...

1. The Cybermen audition for Matt G's Horde of Terror: Jury's still out. They have potential but at the moment they just look like puppets of Lumic. Then again this is a two parter.

2. Wasn't sure how they were going to work the trip to an AU - they didn't do too badly though. Was expecting the TARDIS to not fix itself till the second part though.

3. Micky/Ricky worked relativly well.

Overall, very good ep. Toasted GITF, maybe has the edge on School Reunion.

Easter Lily
May 14th, 2006, 02:52 PM
I couldn't for the live of me think of WHY everyone in the party was being deleted when only the President refused. I can understand why the doctor and co are "rogue elements" however... They dont have ear pieces... Hence they are incompatable.
Because they resisted? They tried to run...
That was my thought anyway.

Willow'sCat
May 14th, 2006, 04:33 PM
I said partially copied. To be fair I would say that the general feel over there is possitive, but the negative posters get complained at more there than they do here. OK but you get what I mean I hope if not, sorry it came out wrong. :S I guess I am just glad the show is back after so many years of having to do with repeats of the old and by and large it is a good show so I just don't get it when people complain or more to the point complain about things that don't really matter in the overall enjoyment of the show *not saying that was what you were doing* ;) Complain *critique* away! :D

Madeleine
May 15th, 2006, 03:13 AM
I liked it lots the first time, and much better the second time I wathced it. The second time I paid less attention to Trigger's Davros Roger Lloyd Pack's Lumic and it really helped.

The download thing in the street was nicely done. The joke at the end was a neat little touch. The scene where Jackie gets that cyberman-head-shaped thing coming out of her ears was very cool. And the down-and-outs getting remodelled, that was chilling. And the 'CLANG CLANG CLANG'....A decent amount of creepiness, overall.

Mickey/Ricky and his friends and Gran were very good. I did think ricky a bit too scowley, but then he's London's most wanted so he gets an excuse.

Had enough of Pete & Jackie. Pete had his episode and that should be that. Jackie's fantastic when she gets four lines per episode, but anything more than that is too much. Although it did tickle my five-year-old that she had a dog called Rose instead of a daughter.

I'm trying to think what was really good about this ep, and aside from the Mickey/Ricky stuff I can't think of anything outstanding. But even so, I really really liked the ep. It just hung together nicely, it had the feel (to me) of a classic ep, with the mystery which was apparent to us before the doctor twigged, and even an old-style cliffhanger; but it had the production values and slick dialogue of the new era. Roll on next week.

Davidtourniquet
May 15th, 2006, 01:26 PM
I dont think Lumic was meant to be a davros. I think everyones trying to compare them to the Mondas cybermen, where as I think they are both separate entities. It's quite possible, that in that universe, Lumic just had that idea and no connection with the mondas cybermen.

I quite liked it all, werent that happy with the quick fix tardis thing.
David Tennant for James Bond I think.
The earpiece thing was great. I'm sure I've seen the guy that played the president before. I think he was on red dwarf as the hologram that went on starbug and lister ate the cigarette.
Whats up with the delete delete delete? Ok it was a bit like the exterminate but it doesn't matter.

IMForeman
May 15th, 2006, 02:45 PM
Lumic was indeed a bit OTT in a "BWA-HA-HA-HA! Soon my electro ray will destroy Metropolis!" kind of way, but I think the performances from our regular and semi-regular cast was great, and once this story gets moving it really moves. I get the impression The Age of Steel will move at a frenetic pace. I do love the new Cyberman design.

-IMF

yaaayoubetcha
May 15th, 2006, 05:34 PM
I'm sure I've seen the guy that played the president before.

I don't know about Red Dwarf, but he was on Manchild.

Davidtourniquet
May 15th, 2006, 11:59 PM
I don't know about Red Dwarf, but he was on Manchild.

Just compared the actor in holoship (red dwarf) and the president
and they are both Don Warrington, so he was.

Willow'sCat
May 16th, 2006, 12:22 AM
Fans of Classic Who feel obliged to pick holes in New Who for some odd reason. Russell T Davis has said time and time again he has remade Dr Who for a new audiance, it's a completely new show
and he doesn't want to keep going back to the old style just to please a few malcontents. Remember, it's a TV show, it's entertainment, treat it as such.Ah a post full of sweeping generalisations. :rolleyes: RTD has said a whole lot of things and he sometimes ends up contradicting himself, go figure the guy has many hats to wear in Dr Who.

It is easy for him to say that but still when it suits to go back to the mythology. As for us old fans well I guess I feel like we stuck by this show for many decades even when it was less then popular so excuse us for being a little precious sometimes. :cool: :rolleyes:

Reefgirl
May 16th, 2006, 01:46 AM
Ah a post full of sweeping generalisations. :rolleyes: RTD has said a whole lot of things and he sometimes ends up contradicting himself, go figure the guy has many hats to wear in Dr Who.

It is easy for him to say that but still when it suits to go back to the mythology. As for us old fans well I guess I feel like we stuck by this show for many decades even when it was less then popular so excuse us for being a little precious sometimes. :cool: :rolleyes:
Fair enough, it was just an opinion, I've been getting a lot of this stuff from another site where people are resistant to change.

I'll be off now, see you next Monday after I've watched the next episode

Metarock Sam
May 16th, 2006, 10:34 AM
Darn it I was going to impress you all with my Red Dwarf knowlege but my PC Crashed beofre I could expalin that Don Warrington Who plays the President in Rise of the Cybermen is also the officer from Holoship who comes on Board Starbug and mocks the crew before Lister mentions they have a very sturdy Holowhip on board and eats a cigareatte. Don Warrington was also one of the main stars of the comedy Sitcom Rising Damp.

Davidtourniquet
May 17th, 2006, 03:43 AM
^ Too quick for ya Metarock :D

Dumper
May 17th, 2006, 12:14 PM
A decent enough episode, but i do feel the Cybermen look a bit silly. If the Kull warriors looked like that in SG-1 it would be taken off the air :) . Also out of the entire universe the only danger that exists seems to be on earth and not too far from where Rose lives, it would be nice if they went to another planet now and again.

Metarock Sam
May 17th, 2006, 12:59 PM
^ Too quick for ya Metarock :D
Arghh My Pc is so slow !!!! XD

Enemyone
May 17th, 2006, 01:49 PM
after the fantastic episode last week this one felt like it dropped off abit. I absolutly hated the fact that both Rose and Mickey dismiss the Doctor when he tells him this isnt your world. Its the same problem i have always had with shows like this though people do extreamly ignorant things in the worse situations. This episode reminded me of that old show Sliders but with a Doctor who Cast. Sad really.......so far the worse episode i have seen this season but still better than most on TV right now.

Egeria
May 18th, 2006, 10:26 AM
Argh! Watched Totally Doctor Who tonight and got spoiled for this weeks ep. :(
*not happy*

Flyboy
May 18th, 2006, 11:45 AM
I decided not to stoop to that level...

yaaayoubetcha
May 18th, 2006, 11:53 AM
Argh! Watched Totally Doctor Who tonight and got spoiled for this weeks ep. :(
*not happy*

spoilers must be deleted! deleted! deleted!


Also out of the entire universe the only danger that exists seems to be on earth and not too far from where Rose lives, it would be nice if they went to another planet now and again.

I certainly makes me rethink my trip to England...i mean hey...London is apparently the most dangerous city the universe. Skaro's got nothin on London.

Egeria
May 18th, 2006, 11:58 AM
I decided not to stoop to that level...

Hey...I got kids! (well that's my excuse anyway and I'm sticking to it) ;)

Flyboy
May 18th, 2006, 12:04 PM
A..... ha. Yes Egeria. Keep telling yourself that. *pats head*

Reefgirl
May 18th, 2006, 02:11 PM
After a year mine's finally got around to watching series 1/27, although she won't watch it alone and refuses to watch any with Daleks in them

Flyboy
May 18th, 2006, 03:18 PM
Awwwwwww how sweet!

I love all this mother/daughter bonding stuff you guys have got going on with your kids. It's very lovely.

Shame about the dalek thing. You need to twist her arm. Maybe introduce her to some classic episodes where the daleks are less scary.

sg1niner
May 18th, 2006, 09:51 PM
I looked back on some of the posts and I find that many of you dont like how Rose went to seek out her family.. Wouldn't you be a bit curious to know what your family would be like in an alternate universe? I would run off to check things out. It would give answers to "what ifs".

Reefgirl
May 19th, 2006, 12:42 AM
Awwwwwww how sweet!

I love all this mother/daughter bonding stuff you guys have got going on with your kids. It's very lovely.

Shame about the dalek thing. You need to twist her arm. Maybe introduce her to some classic episodes where the daleks are less scary.
I'm going to try her out on Remeberance of the Daleks and the Five Doctors when we've finished the 9th Doctor series.

I think Dr Who bonding is a family thing because my mum and dad were big fans. The had a Dr Who marathon on UKGold before the last series started and Mum would be watching the Hartnell, Troughton and Pertwee episodes and I'd watch Baker to McCoy

:o My dad used to scare me by putting a saucpan on his head and going "Exterminate" I was about 5 at the time

ShadowMaat
May 19th, 2006, 04:29 AM
I looked back on some of the posts and I find that many of you dont like how Rose went to seek out her family.. Wouldn't you be a bit curious to know what your family would be like in an alternate universe? I would run off to check things out. It would give answers to "what ifs".
I might look up info about them, but I wouldn't seek them out to play voyeur, especially not when the Doctor is railing about how pointless and troublesome it could be.

Maybe not having a father made her a bit obsessive about seeing him, but it still annoys me.

Metarock Sam
May 19th, 2006, 09:12 AM
Its unfair that the Doctor isnt given enough respect by Rose and Mickey in this ep. They wouldnt listen to him !!!!!!

Reefgirl
May 19th, 2006, 10:12 AM
And when was the last time you listened to ANYTHING your mum and dad said to you?

Jonzey
May 19th, 2006, 11:34 AM
And when was the last time you listened to ANYTHING your mum and dad said to you?
Well when they were talking about not messing in paralell universes, I took them very seriously.

sg1niner
May 19th, 2006, 12:29 PM
And when was the last time you listened to ANYTHING your mum and dad said to you?


Never... lol

ShadowMaat
May 19th, 2006, 01:17 PM
And when was the last time you listened to ANYTHING your mum and dad said to you?
I always listened to Mum and Dad. ...Unless I was reading, then they had to beat me over the head before I realized they were talking. ;)

Easter Lily
May 19th, 2006, 08:26 PM
And when was the last time you listened to ANYTHING your mum and dad said to you?
Oh I always listen... ;)
Whether I do what they say is another thing :P

But now that I'm a grown girl... I grudgingly admit... they're usually right...

Metarock Sam
May 20th, 2006, 12:43 AM
And when was the last time you listened to ANYTHING your mum and dad said to you?
I listen to what my Dad tells me not my mum.
AN the Doctor isnt their parent. He allows his companions to travel with him which does command a level of respect.

Reefgirl
May 20th, 2006, 12:59 AM
But he's still an adult and they're a pair of teenagers

Don't forget Dr Who's on at 6 tonight because of the Eurovision. The Finnish entry looks like a cross between Kull Warriors and Klingons

IMForeman
May 20th, 2006, 01:04 AM
But he's still an adult and they're a pair of teenagers

Don't forget Dr Who's on at 6 tonight because of the Eurovision. The Finnish entry looks like a cross between Kull Warriors and Klingons

Mickey's not a teenager. He's around 25 or so.

The Signal
May 20th, 2006, 01:50 AM
True he is about 25 but the Doctor is about 1000 years old, so i think he has a little seniority and Mickey should really listen to him, as should Rose.

Reefgirl
May 20th, 2006, 02:00 AM
My mistake dr Who is on at 6.35

And Noel Clarke who plays Mickey is actually 30 years old :eek:

pbellosom
May 21st, 2006, 07:28 AM
It never did tell us why the Time Vortex collapsed under them, did it?

sg1niner
May 21st, 2006, 09:05 AM
Nope.. But for the sake of thought.. lets just blame Micky.. Cause it did happen when he let go.. ;)

Flyboy
May 21st, 2006, 12:28 PM
Nope.. But for the sake of thought.. lets just blame Micky.. Cause it did happen when he let go.. ;)
Uh Uh, let's blame the Doctor for ignoring Mickey. Mickey held on too long because the doctor forgot about him.

sg1niner
May 21st, 2006, 12:57 PM
Uh Uh, let's blame the Doctor for ignoring Mickey. Mickey held on too long because the doctor forgot about him.

yeah that too.....

GhostPoet
July 27th, 2006, 12:42 PM
I think the Tardis saw what was happening and sacrificed almost all it's energy to break through into that world so the Doctor could help things there.
I think the Tardis knew the risks and stored a sliver of energy from itself in that battery. It wasn't a concidence...

IMForeman
July 27th, 2006, 06:09 PM
I think the Tardis saw what was happening and sacrificed almost all it's energy to break through into that world so the Doctor could help things there.
I think the Tardis knew the risks and stored a sliver of energy from itself in that battery. It wasn't a concidence...

After Army of Ghosts I think the TARDIS slipped through the crack the Sphere made when it left our universe, just as the Cybermen came through the hole they made when they came back.

wurlitzer153
October 27th, 2006, 09:12 PM
Argh!!! Skiffy changed the time of the repeat again and I missed most of this episode. Will it be replayed again? I'm really getting sick with Sci-fi's scheduling!

Tracker
October 27th, 2006, 10:24 PM
Argh!!! Skiffy changed the time of the repeat again and I missed most of this episode. Will it be replayed again? I'm really getting sick with Sci-fi's scheduling!

Grrr...I know how you feel. I almost missed it myself. Luckily, I just happened to turn on the television, and only missed about half a minute or so.


I'm gonna get some Battlestar fans mad by saying this, but I really wish Scifi had played the two eps together. I know there's something to be said about waiting a week in suspense, but dangit....I rather watch Cybermen than Cylons.

MasySyma
October 28th, 2006, 09:00 AM
Let's try this again. The forum ate my post last night.


I liked this episode, mostly. The Cybermen are interesting, and I was annoyed at the to be continued sign because I wanted more. I look forward to watching this season on DVD.

Pros:

I found Mickey's remark that he may find something better interesting. I appreciated finally seeing some of his backstory, and his interactions with his AU grandmother and Rickey were intriguing. I hope that our Mickey learns from Rickey about confidence and being more that "the tin dog."

The Doctor was wonderful as usual. Yes, he cleans up well, and I loved his reaction to Rose the dog. :)

The Cybermen are ok so far. Are they connected to the Daleks at all? I see the similarities with human pieces inside machines gone beserk, and I just wonder if Daleks are grown up/futuristic Cybermen. I appreciated that the Doctor's knowledge failed him this time. Even he has to adapt when an AU world changes the conditions for victory.

Cons:

Rose, Rose, and Rose again.

1. I found her disrespect for the Doctor and Mickey rude. She does not even think about Mickey and that he would want to see his family. She cannot even recall her reaction to seeing her father and possibly think that Mickey might possess similar emotions. I'm happy to see that Mickey is getting annoyed with her too. The Doctor follows his whims, like Rose, but his whims always relate to saving the universe. She constantly focuses on Rose first, and the universe can set itself on fire for all she cares whenever she wants to focus on something else, usually something personal.

2. She cannot seem to fanthom that she is not the center of the universe. The Doctor has been trying to teach her this lesson since episode 2 of Series 27, but she isn't listening. She still wants to attend the party as the guest of honor. She doesn't want to work, and she can't figure out that the "invisible" people are the ones with the knowledge.

3. Her arrogance amazed me this week. I wanted to smack her when she judged AU Jackie and Pete for not having kids, and I was thrilled when AU Jackie yelled at her for trying to dispence marital advice. Rose has no idea what kind of man her AU would-be father is; he could be a drunkard and wife beater, but she knows what is best for her AU almost-parents because she is Rose the great. Like many of you when these episodes aired originally, I am starting to want a new companion. Perhaps the Doctor should take Rose the dog with him; at least she would be loyal.

I'll give the episode a 9/10, but I would like Rose the dog to bite Rose the idiot.

Jax
October 28th, 2006, 10:24 AM
The Cybermen are ok so far. Are they connected to the Daleks at all? I see the similarities with human pieces inside machines gone beserk, and I just wonder if Daleks are grown up/futuristic Cybermen. I appreciated that the Doctor's knowledge failed him this time. Even he has to adapt when an AU world changes the conditions for victory.


With the exception of them being both cybernetic beings, originating from the old series and being a reoccurring enemy, there's nothing that really connects them (though that "Delete" reminds me too much of "Exterminate"). Though there creation in this episode does slightly mirror the Daleks.



I'll give the episode a 9/10, but I would like Rose the dog to bite Rose the idiot.

Agreed, I just about tolerated Rose in the first series, but in the second I just couldn't stand her at all.

lord-anubis
October 28th, 2006, 07:08 PM
i got to say even thou i like the last doctor better. so far i liked the 2 season more the the frist. the only thing i dident like about this ep was that it was a 2 parter. so now i have to wait until next week or i guess i could go to youtube but i wait to try not to do that. whats up the glasses thou i noiced in the last eps the doctor has been wearing them. i wonder if he needs them or he just beigns them out to look smarter

MasySyma
October 28th, 2006, 07:29 PM
With the exception of them being both cybernetic beings, originating from the old series and being a reoccurring enemy, there's nothing that really connects them (though that "Delete" reminds me too much of "Exterminate"). Though there creation in this episode does slightly mirror the Daleks.

Perhaps it's because I don't know my Who history yet. So far, I'm just seeing more metal critters bent on converting people or killing them. The way the evil villain rounded up and killed homeless people is nearly identical to what the "god" of the Daleks mentioned about winnowing social rejects to find genes worth of being a Dalek.

I also agree that the Delete, Delete is just like the Dalek Exterminate, and the cybermen already seem to dislike the Doctor. Bullets don't work on either species, and neither are good conversationalists right now. So the overlap is rather large. I still enjoyed the episode, but perhaps series 3/29 will introduce a long term villain that isn't made of metal and one that has more than a two-word vocabulary.

ShadowMaat
November 3rd, 2006, 06:12 PM
Okay, did I miss something or did they cut out the whole "Lion Sleeps Tonight" sequence from this two-parter?

It was still great stuff, though. Doctor Who is very good at humanizing its monsters. And YAY to Mickey! Love him to bits. :)

gateship15
February 1st, 2009, 02:48 AM
this was a good episode u got to understand Micky more and u got to see what life would be like without rose and if roses dad was successful. i like the comeback of the cyberman but when i saw this episode i wandered if these cyberman like the ones that were in our world would be allergic to gold. we will never know

maneth
June 6th, 2012, 11:03 AM
Cool episode, and man were those Cybermen more creepy than any robot I've ever seen... Yikes.

maneth
August 2nd, 2014, 09:04 AM
I really didn't like Rose in this one at all, she's far too self-centered.