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GateWorld
April 14th, 2006, 01:21 PM
<DIV ALIGN=CENTER><TABLE WIDTH=450 BORDER=0 CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=7><TR><TD STYLE="border:0;"><DIV ALIGN=LEFT><FONT FACE="Arial" SIZE=2 COLOR="#000000"><A HREF="http://www.scifistream.com/doctor-who/s2/"><IMG SRC="http://www.scifistream.com/wp-content/uploads/204.jpg" WIDTH=160 HEIGHT=120 ALIGN=RIGHT HSPACE=10 VSPACE=2 BORDER=0 STYLE="border:1px solid #000;" ALT="Visit the Episode Guide"></A><FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#888888">DOCTOR WHO SERIES 28</FONT>
<FONT SIZE=4><A HREF="http://www.scifistream.com/doctor-who/s2/" STYLE="text-decoration: none">THE GIRL IN THE FIREPLACE</A></FONT>
<FONT SIZE=1>EPISODE NUMBER - 2804</FONT>
<IMG SRC="/images/clear.gif" WIDTH=1 HEIGHT=10 ALT="">
The Doctor and his companions find a fifty-first century ship dead in space, with many portals into different points in the life of a woman in eighteenth century Paris. With the ability to visit the girl, Reinette, throughout her life, the Doctor must discover why the ship's clockwork androids are after her.

<FONT SIZE=1><B><A HREF="http://www.scifistream.com/doctor-who/s2/">VISIT THE EPISODE GUIDE >></A></B></FONT></FONT></DIV></TD></TR></TABLE></DIV>

yaaayoubetcha
May 6th, 2006, 10:58 PM
I really enjoyed this ep.

The premise was interesting and the final resolution was great. I loved the clockwork bots and their programming to repair the ship was greusomely funny. Smells like bbq.

I'd like to see more eps like this, with some well thought out villains. Could be a great follow up ep somewhere down the line where we can find out what the ship was and why it was there in the first place.

However, I'm starting to get a bit tired of the whole 'humanizing' of the Doctor.

I found it acceptable in the last ep with Sarah-Jane as it was a great bridge tween the series and a good wrap for her character, but repeatedly giving this sort of personal interaction seems wrong. The Doctor was always above the involvement with his companions or character of the week. His ability to move on unhindered when all else was changing was part of what made him the Doctor.

Maybe that's just me.

Also, didn't Steven Moffat also do writing for Coupling?
Strange combination of writing credits.

Willow'sCat
May 6th, 2006, 11:13 PM
Haha! Loved this *surprised I know* I didn't get all of it but I assume it makes sense to most people 'the whole French thing'. Nice, interesting idea, and the shot at the end was great nice exit to bring it all together.

How much sci was sacrificed for the fi in this? Not sure but I am willing to go with it as long as I am entertained and I certainly was with this.

What was the stuff with the mind probe (what do we call it?) I know he has done it many times before but I didn't get it, is he 'Bad Wolf'? Is this some kind of dark secret RTD wants to explore? Someone clue me in already.

I really do not want to say 'kirking' (I am seriously joking when using that term people :rolleyes: ) but what is going on with all these women? For centuries nothing then 3 come along all at once! :P I think The Doctor has always been 'human' in his compassion and the way he relates to humans but the femfatle (?) thing? I can really do without it, that makes 4 or 5 kisses in two series, now how many all up in the previous 26?! :D

I liked Mickey in this, he actually reminded me for a moment of David Lister from Red Dwarf when he was looking at that eye thing. ;) Rose *poor* Rose, she really needs to learn that The Doctor isn't hers.

Horse! Lol I loved that, I can see the Icons now!

Next week...can't wait!

IMForeman
May 6th, 2006, 11:38 PM
Oh, this was so beautiful. A modern fairy tale, complete with monsters and a mythical hero, all mixed in with a tragic love story. This wasn't just great Doctor Who... this was great television. This everything I wished Doctor Who could do. I really did cry at the end of this. It's just that wonderful.

Beautiful.

Dallista
May 6th, 2006, 11:42 PM
It's become abundantly clear to me that my opinions of the episodes tend to differ greatly from the vast majority of fans over at Outpost Gallifrey (the classic Whovians, and apparently 99.9 % men). What they seem to love about episodes, I just don't care for, and vice versa.

This episode is a good example: it plain bored me. Thank goodness I was watching it with four friends, who made some rather funny comments at times, otherwise I'd probably have felt like watching the clock!

Disappointment one: no musketeers. Okay, so when I heard they were going to France, I thought it'd be around the time of d'Artagnan and co. No such luck. :(

For Mickey's first trip as official companion, he should've gotten more to do, IMHO. Rose, too, for that matter. Yes, I know I know, classic Who demands the Doctor is the center of attention, and the assistants are just that. But, sorry, we don't live in that age anymore, and I just expected a bit more development there.

Madame de Pompadour? I dunno, I'm sure Sophia Myles is a fine actress, but... Fans are all over the place shouting this was real emotion and drama, yada yada, between the Doctor and the Madame, but I just didn't see it. Any of it.

The clockwork robots just weren't scary. At all. Compared to a little boy walking around, calling out "Are you my mummy"? No contest.

It felt a bit too much like Casanova at times. Not sure if that's a good thing or a bad thing. I just noticed it (the music, the costumes, the settings, even the horse, and especially Tennant's acting), and my best friend nudged me during the end credits and said "Someone's been watching Casanova for inspiration!" So it wasn't even just me. ;)

I'll rewatch the episode a bunch of times, though, and I'm sure I'll come to appreciate it more. I usually do. Fact is, I didn't care for The Empty Child the first time I saw it, either. Maybe it's just Moffat's writing I need to get used to.
A 2.5 out fo 5 for now...

Easter Lily
May 7th, 2006, 12:23 AM
I enjoyed this... more than I thought I would...

Looking at the trailers last week, I was a bit "meh" about it especially as it was obvious that the Doctor was going to be kissed... again... But it was surprisingly good... and Sophie Myles was mesmerizing... Really. She carried herself with great dignity and natural intelligence -- the perfect person in my opinion to play Madame de Pompadour. While I wasn't in tears over this one, I thought it was a lovely story with a whimsical quality to it. Some posters elsewhere mentioned Peter Pan resonances and I think they're spot on. The story does make a lot more sense when you think about it in those terms. The Doctor as Peter Pan works for me... particularly because it is played by David Tennant.

I think they're really pushing the lonely god/traveller line this season... which is understandable if he is now really the only Time Lord left. I have no problems whatsoever with the writers exploring that side of the Doctor. I am still a bit "iffy" about romance in Doctor Who... but I'm glad that the Rose/Doctor angle is gradually being downplayed even if it's through using once-off encounters. Still, I think Mdm Pompadour and the Doctor makes a lot more sense to me than the Doctor and Rose as a pairing.

I'm really enjoying this season so far...

Next week... Cybermen! Woot!

Willow'sCat
May 7th, 2006, 12:35 AM
It's become abundantly clear to me that my opinions of the episodes tend to differ greatly from the vast majority of fans over at Outpost Gallifrey (the classic Whovians, and apparently 99.9 % men). What they seem to love about episodes, I just don't care for, and vice versa. Not sure I get your point? I am not able to read between the lines here. :S I am a long time fan and this 'new' series is so different to the classic series but that doen't bother me because I have grown up and moved on and the old style and story lines would never cut it today, I am also a realist we live in a time when the lead actor needs to be seen as attractive so I will go with what they are doing but not always like it.

Why would you want Musketeers? Now that would be a cliche of the old Who. :S


It felt a bit too much like Casanova at times. Not sure if that's a good thing or a bad thing. I just noticed it (the music, the costumes, the settings, even the horse, and especially Tennant's acting), and my best friend nudged me during the end credits and said "Someone's been watching Casanova for inspiration!" So it wasn't even just me. Well same actor same producers same BBC... nuf said. ;)

Metarock Sam
May 7th, 2006, 12:50 AM
A very good episode.
Loved the clockwork robots they scared the pants out of my little bro which was a laugh.
Not only did this eppy have all these horror and suspense moments (the ship with a heart - literraly) but there were quite a few laughing moments (No Doctor you can't keep the horse. Why? you kept Mickey). I thought it was great that Madame P called the Doctor Fireplace man alot which was funny and she kissed him not he kissed her.
Mickey didnt do much and Rose was on the sidelines too. But Arthur the Horse was great !!!

Next week CYBERMEN !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Willow'sCat
May 7th, 2006, 01:20 AM
But Arthur the Horse was great !!!I loved the horse! I don't even like horses but it was so silly you had to love it. :p I wasn't fussed with less Mickey, I am one of those that wondered why have him tag along anyway *huh* not my call, I am sure he will be 'used' in later episodes to great effect.

I liked that there was overall less of Rose too, she is only the companion after all. ;) :cool:

Egeria
May 7th, 2006, 01:58 AM
Oh, this was so beautiful. A modern fairy tale, complete with monsters and a mythical hero, all mixed in with a tragic love story. This wasn't just great Doctor Who... this was great television. This everything I wished Doctor Who could do. I really did cry at the end of this. It's just that wonderful.

Beautiful.

That just about sums up how I feel. I loved this ep, even more than last weeks. I don't understand how some folks reckon that the clockwork baddies weren't scary? My kids were totally creeped out by them (and not alot scares them). I am loving the series sooooo much, never thought I'd say this but DT has completely won me over as the Doctor (sorry Chris). :D

pbellosom
May 7th, 2006, 02:16 AM
I loved this episode, it is definately my favorate one with the thenth doctor and is a candidate for my favorate episode ever. What I don't get though was why was the fireplace on the ship. was it just because it belonged to the Madame De Pompadour or was there another reason?

Major Clanger
May 7th, 2006, 02:29 AM
oh my
this was great
but recently I have noticed Douglas Adams references: first there was the "very Arthur Dent" from the Chistmas one, and now the Horse near a time machine...

I loved this, I really like how we're getting the emotions coming over - he is now not only more dark and broody but he is also lonley.

And he's a party animal.

what's not to love

Favourite lines:

He's the King of France!

I'm the Lord of Time (or thereabouts)

priceless!

The Signal
May 7th, 2006, 02:33 AM
Thank god GW is back, I've been stuck with the people over at outpost Gallifrey (they use terms like "Jump the Shark" completely wrong, and start fic threads as fact, its like a forum full o' n00bs!) not all of them of course, but a good deal of them are. (no offence to any of the people here who go there, but you uys will know what I mean)

Anyway.I cba to write a long flowing review. So I'll shorthand it.

The Doctor, emotional at the end, pulled off to perfection.
The Doctor drunk, pretty damned hilarious!
Rose and Mickey, needed to do more
The horse, should be the next companion!
The clockwork robots, while they lacked the sinister edge and seemed more like a classic sci-fi killer robot, very nice.
Madame de Pompadour, a class act, well acted, you really got the feeling of love for the doctor.
The idea: Very good, shows up 51st century programming of robots sucked bigtime and gave the Doctor something new to do.
Emotions, this carried on from last episodes little bit about the companions dying, and how the Doctor reacts to this, great.
Niggles: Mickey and Rose might as well have not been in it.

Favourite Quote:
Rose: Oh no, your not keeping the horse
Doctor: Why, you get to keep Mickey!

Score: 9/10

Billz
May 7th, 2006, 03:34 AM
I hate my sister so damn much. She Knew I had this episode set up for timer record because I was at work but she unplugged the TV then re-plugged it back in just so the timer record wouldnt work. I cant believe I missed this episode. I was planning on taping this whole series aswell. Was this Doctor Who episode good? I had already taped 'New Earth', 'Tooth And Claw' and 'School Reunion'.

Jonzey
May 7th, 2006, 03:35 AM
Was a good episode, but so far probably my least favourite of the season.

The ending was really sad though, and I guess it backs up the point made in last weeks episode as to why the Doctor tries to not get too close to people. He saw her whole life go by so quickly, got to know her, and then she just died while the doctor hadn't aged a day.


Edit: There wasn't a torchwood reference, was there? I mean, this was before it was all set up, right? Doesn't look like there'll be one next week either.

Easter Lily
May 7th, 2006, 04:44 AM
What was the stuff with the mind probe (what do we call it?) I know he has done it many times before but I didn't get it, is he 'Bad Wolf'? Is this some kind of dark secret RTD wants to explore? Someone clue me in already.
I think the Vulcans on Star Trek called it mind meld. But mind probe is probably a good a term as any.


Horse! Lol I loved that, I can see the Icons now!

Next week...can't wait!
I thought that was cool... to think that they almost didn't do it! ;)

Flyboy
May 7th, 2006, 04:53 AM
Ok... my turn.

First and foremost. Thank God there was no torchwood reference. TPTB are living up to my hopes, Torchwood everywhere WOULD be out of context,

As for the episode itself. Well I watched it twice in one day, so it can't be that bad. But it didnt WOW me like the other three this series. I didnt find the robots scary, but Ive never found anything in Who scary.... maybe its just me. (though i did have this dream once where I was ina space station being attacked by Daleks and in the dream I was terrified, because these were NEW daleks. You couldnt just push them into a wall and hope theyd blow up... no no, these daleks were serious stuff) anyway, the masks were creepy but still....

The plot was good, and I liked seeing more about the Doctor, I think we're going to have a lot more about the Doctor's past revealed to us, why he is JUST the doctor and nothing else, possibly the things that were meant to be revealed in the last series of the McCoy era before it was cancelled.

I don't think there is any romantacising of the doctor. He didnt love her. She kissed HIM, not the other way around. I think his sadness his because he failed her. We know the doctor hates failing people, the way he left SJS and never returned, this time he did it again but couldnt even say goodbye as she died. I think thats whats hitting him. The awareness that he will CONSTANTLY let people down.

Now for the other details. The doctor, when he was "drunk" was amazing, loved him, especially with those damn cool shades and tie round his head, loved his singing to. "Youre thick thickety think think of think town. And so's your dad!" Nice to see the "bananas are good reference to CE's time there as well".

Mind you I scaredf myself when I sounded just like DT in response to Rose and Mickey's stupid comments.

"That's a human heart" and I said to the TV - "Well yes it's a heart, of course it's a heart, but is it human!?" Dear me.

Anyway, next weeks looks incredible, and I think there culd be a Torchwood reference, its still london afterall. Just a different universe.

in circles
May 7th, 2006, 04:53 AM
Loved this episode. The robots looked amazing and the script was great.

Mickey: What's a horse doing on a space ship?
The Doctor: Mickey, what's pre-revolutionary France doing on a space ship? Get a little perspective.

Mickey rolling around in the corridors with a gun was priceless too.

Willow'sCat
May 7th, 2006, 05:02 AM
I think the Vulcans on Star Trek called it mind meld. But mind probe is probably a good a term as any.He has used it many times but I am afraid I am not that kind of fan *you know the kind that takes a lot of notice* he did it with himself once *no not that!* :D was it Jon and Patrick? Ah the memory is going. Anyway I was more interested in what she thought she found out about The Doctor, not the lonely childhood but it seemed to hint at something darker, or was that just me? :S

Um, I was wondering if it was the way *cough* I was watching it, but the trailer on the BBC site had a scene that I don't remember seeing in the episode, the two female crew members, was it there when broadcast? :S

Oh thanks FOB I couldn't think where the banana came into it, of course when he is talking to Capt Jack. ;)

Hulabaloo
May 7th, 2006, 06:34 AM
I loved this ep. I thinks its great.

I dont want to put you all down to much but i dont like Mickey, i just dont like him! The person who plays him is great tho.

Above all, fantastic ep!
Loved the Doctor drunk. :lol:

9 outta 10

Jonzey
May 7th, 2006, 06:36 AM
He has used it many times but I am afraid I am not that kind of fan *you know the kind that takes a lot of notice* he did it with himself once *no not that!* :D was it Jon and Patrick? Ah the memory is going. Anyway I was more interested in what she thought she found out about The Doctor, not the lonely childhood but it seemed to hint at something darker, or was that just me? :S

Um, I was wondering if it was the way *cough* I was watching it, but the trailer on the BBC site had a scene that I don't remember seeing in the episode, the two female crew members, was it there when broadcast? :S

Oh thanks FOB I couldn't think where the banana came into it, of course when he is talking to Capt Jack. ;)
I think the trailers they have are not actually parts of the episodes, but little things leading up to them. The one for Tooth and Claw had the comet hitting earth and a monk getting attacked, and the one for this ep was showing the fate of the crew of the ship (i.e they got attacked by the clockwork robots to be made into part of the ship).

Flyboy
May 7th, 2006, 07:10 AM
I think the trailers they have are not actually parts of the episodes, but little things leading up to them. The one for Tooth and Claw had the comet hitting earth and a monk getting attacked, and the one for this ep was showing the fate of the crew of the ship (i.e they got attacked by the clockwork robots to be made into part of the ship).
Those are the TARDISODES, exclusive preludes to the episodes only available online or via mobile phones. Though hopefully they'll be on the S2 boxset.

Jonzey
May 7th, 2006, 08:36 AM
So was the Doctor planning on taking the girl along with him as a companion? Or was he just going to show her the stars up close?

Flyboy
May 7th, 2006, 08:58 AM
He told her to pack a bag. I think he was blatantly going to take her with him.

yaaayoubetcha
May 7th, 2006, 09:01 AM
My wife found the clockworks really creepy, moreso with the masks than without. But she has a thing about clowns and masks and the like. Don't even ask her about the Burger King King guy.

I didn't think they were that creepy, but I can see how that would come across, esp with the lifeless masks.

My fave lines of the ep though, tween Rose and the Doctor:

You can't keep a horse!!
Why not? I let you keep Mickey!

lol

also...really looking forward to next week. Cybermen!! woohoo.

ShadowMaat
May 7th, 2006, 09:10 AM
This ep was interesting. When the credits started to roll, all I could think was, "Fantastic!" But now that I've had time to settle down and think about it, I do have some issues.

First and foremost (and something that annoyed the hell out of me within the ep) was the kiss. :rolleyes: Please. Enough with the Doctor's endless passing romances. I may not be up on my Who history, but I'm pretty sure he doesn't have a girl in every timeport and I don't particularly care to see it now. The Doctor isn't about "teh sex" to me and an attraction to him does not, IMO, necessarily have to be sexual, but if they continue to push this... idea at us, it's going to put a serious crimp in my enjoyment of the show. I don't want it to get bogged down by sex and romance and trysts and one-night flings. Or at the very least, leave that for the Companions. ;) The Doctor should be "above" that sort of thing.

Second... the clockwork men were interesting, but not terribly scary. I mostly find them confusing. How could a crew from the 51st century overlook something as obvious as programming their robots "thou shalt not use us for spare parts"? And if the robots are concerned enough about "fitting in" to the 18th century, why don't they seem to care about anything else?

What was the point of the space station, anyway? Were the time portals created before or after the accident that damaged the station? Because if it was AFTER, then how the hell can they have enough power to rip a hole through the fabric of time/space, but they lack power to effect repairs? And how did they manage to get an authentic 18th century fireplace into the station? And what about the horse? Did they need some of his parts, too? ;)

It is a shame Mickey didn't get more to do, but at least he didn't make a fool out of himself.

I assume the Doctor left the broken robots behind. Wasn't he worried about "corrupting the timeline" or something? 51st century tech left floating around the 18th century seems like an invitation to trouble, if you ask me.

As for the Doctor being drunk... I was initially shocked, but when he poure the anti-oil or whatever it was on the robot, I assumed it was all an act to throw the robots off balance.

I liked the ep, I thought it had great emotional impact and I'd probably be willing to overlook the various plotholes, but the kiss thing still really bothers me. I don't want the show to be about that.

Flyboy
May 7th, 2006, 09:29 AM
This ep was interesting. When the credits started to roll, all I could think was, "Fantastic!" But now that I've had time to settle down and think about it, I do have some issues.

First and foremost (and something that annoyed the hell out of me within the ep) was the kiss. :rolleyes: Please. Enough with the Doctor's endless passing romances. I may not be up on my Who history, but I'm pretty sure he doesn't have a girl in every timeport and I don't particularly care to see it now. The Doctor isn't about "teh sex" to me and an attraction to him does not, IMO, necessarily have to be sexual, but if they continue to push this... idea at us, it's going to put a serious crimp in my enjoyment of the show. I don't want it to get bogged down by sex and romance and trysts and one-night flings. Or at the very least, leave that for the Companions. ;) The Doctor should be "above" that sort of thing.

Second... the clockwork men were interesting, but not terribly scary. I mostly find them confusing. How could a crew from the 51st century overlook something as obvious as programming their robots "thou shalt not use us for spare parts"? And if the robots are concerned enough about "fitting in" to the 18th century, why don't they seem to care about anything else?

What was the point of the space station, anyway? Were the time portals created before or after the accident that damaged the station? Because if it was AFTER, then how the hell can they have enough power to rip a hole through the fabric of time/space, but they lack power to effect repairs? And how did they manage to get an authentic 18th century fireplace into the station? And what about the horse? Did they need some of his parts, too? ;)

It is a shame Mickey didn't get more to do, but at least he didn't make a fool out of himself.

I assume the Doctor left the broken robots behind. Wasn't he worried about "corrupting the timeline" or something? 51st century tech left floating around the 18th century seems like an invitation to trouble, if you ask me.

As for the Doctor being drunk... I was initially shocked, but when he poure the anti-oil or whatever it was on the robot, I assumed it was all an act to throw the robots off balance.

I liked the ep, I thought it had great emotional impact and I'd probably be willing to overlook the various plotholes, but the kiss thing still really bothers me. I don't want the show to be about that.
The. Doctor. Did. Not. Kiss. Her!

Seriously, she kissed him, not the other way around. He was all happy about it because of the fact that it was Madame du whatsherface, not cause he particularly enjoyed it.

Jonzey
May 7th, 2006, 09:45 AM
The. Doctor. Did. Not. Kiss. Her!

Seriously, she kissed him, not the other way around. He was all happy about it because of the fact that it was Madame du whatsherface, not cause he particularly enjoyed it.
Exactly. I've seen no romantic signs of affection from the Doctor at all. All of that stuff comes from the girls (Rose, SJS, Whatsername from this ep).

And who can blame them? I mean, I'm a straight guy but even I will admit that he is a good-looking man.


He told her to pack a bag. I think he was blatantly going to take her with him.

That's what I thought, but surely plucking a historical figure out of the timeline like that would have consequences on the future?

ShadowMaat
May 7th, 2006, 09:48 AM
The. Doctor. Did. Not. Kiss. Her!

Seriously, she kissed him, not the other way around. He was all happy about it because of the fact that it was Madame du whatsherface, not cause he particularly enjoyed it.
That's a case of semantics, as far as I'm concerned. Yes, she kissed him but it's the fact that the kiss happened at all. Maybe it fits with his whole "take it as it comes" mentality that he didn't try to push her away, but to me, romance is being very heavily implied- it's implied with Rose, it was implied with Sarah Jane, and now Reinette. Or at the very least, it's showing that women "inevitably" fall head over heels for the Doctor. I'd just prefer to see women have a different sort of attraction to him that wasn't all kisses and snuggles. There's a lot more to him than his "hot bod" and I'd like to see those elements played up a bit more, that's all.

The Signal
May 7th, 2006, 11:11 AM
That's what I thought, but surely plucking a historical figure out of the timeline like that would have consequences on the future?
Not when he can drop her back to the time and place she came from before anyone could notice.

Jonzey
May 7th, 2006, 11:31 AM
Not when he can drop her back to the time and place she came from before anyone could notice.
That is true, but remember the first time he took Rose back and he was accidentally a year late?

The Signal
May 7th, 2006, 12:46 PM
Well it can be a little touch and go, but the TARDIS seems to go where there is trouble (this is the main cause for wrong placements in time and space), aliens 1 year out, 1 year isnt too bad, so it went there, barring some sort of alien threat in France it woudl probably go where it was supposed to.

Wraith Scientist
May 7th, 2006, 12:50 PM
Couldn't they just have used the TARDIS to go back to when she was alive?

Jonzey
May 7th, 2006, 12:52 PM
Couldn't they just have used the TARDIS to go back to when she was alive?
No, cos he can't cross his own time path.

Which I don't think actually means anything, it's just their way of stopping Deus Ex Machinas of going back in time and stopping a problem before it starts.

Flyboy
May 7th, 2006, 01:11 PM
Exactly. I've seen no romantic signs of affection from the Doctor at all. All of that stuff comes from the girls (Rose, SJS, Whatsername from this ep).

And who can blame them? I mean, I'm a straight guy but even I will admit that he is a good-looking man.



That's what I thought, but surely plucking a historical figure out of the timeline like that would have consequences on the future?
Yes you can call me FOB.


Anyway. I disagree that there was any romantacism on the Doctor's half.

Hulabaloo
May 7th, 2006, 01:57 PM
Sometimes i feel people think into things too deeply.

However i do have my own thought;

Would a 18th Century Person really say; Who the HELL are you?

I mean come on, isnt that bad language or someat?

EDIT:

Looking over my last post and rewatching the ep, i do have to give Mickey his due when he takes Rose so that the Doctor can have some time on his own.

Jonzey
May 7th, 2006, 02:13 PM
Sometimes i feel people think into things too deeply.

However i do have my own thought;

Would a 18th Century Person really say; Who the HELL are you?

I mean come on, isnt that bad language or someat?

EDIT:

Looking over my last post and rewatching the ep, i do have to give Mickey his due when he takes Rose so that the Doctor can have some time on his own.
Maybe the TARDIS translators went into expletive mode. The polarity probably needs reversing.

Edit: And yeah, I agree about Mickey. I think since the Doctor regenerated, Mickey sees him as more of an equal, and more 'normal' than he thought before. Which is why he makes those jokes about him and his woman-enticing skills and why he wanted to come along. I think he feared the Doctor slightly at first.

Matt G
May 7th, 2006, 02:35 PM
Hmmm...

1. Definately more schmalzy than the average Who ep. OK, so it's not as bad as SG1's Chimera but...

2. Mickey was OK...but there wasn't really much for him to do here.

3. Are they seriously expecting us to believe the Doctor would be trapped in the 18th century.

Overall the Doctor as a character was cool here but the ep itself was iffy. Least good of the bunch IMO so far this season.

BC - 303
May 7th, 2006, 03:32 PM
it wasnt brilliant, that was my though at first, but then i read this and i realised, it WAS brilliant. The mechanical men were great, not scary 4 me, but brilliant.
David T was exelent as per usual.
I liked the down play of Rose, not that i dont like rose, just shes TO main a charactor if you know what i mean.
I liked Mickey, and i hope he stays for a while. The ice guns were great.
i didnt get it all at first, but after a while i did.
moral of this stort: - Never get AI clockwork robots

Hywel
May 7th, 2006, 03:54 PM
I really liked this episode. Everybody in the room jumped when something moved under the bed. Genius! :p

I loved the ending - the reveal of the ship's name was really well done.

Easter Lily
May 7th, 2006, 04:02 PM
Anyway. I disagree that there was any romantacism on the Doctor's half.
I still think that there is enough ambiguity for the viewer to take whatever they want from it. The writers on Dr Who Confidential are not shy to highlight the romantic nuances so I guess the intent was there. Of course, others have taken it further. On Outpost Gallifrey I notice there's been a lot of discussion about what Reinette really meant when she said... "there comes a time when the lonely boy needs to learn how to dance". Of course, with a modern audience, it's inevitable that a large proportion of people will take that to mean "sex" a la The Doctor Dances.

Personally, I don't think that that reading of the episode fits in with the overall story. Not because I am squeamish about the idea but because the tone of the episode exudes a child-like quality about it... "the lonely boy", "my lonely angel"... This is why I like the Peter Pan idea. The Doctor is the little boy who never grows old... He chances upon Reinette as a child and becomes her protector seemingly throughout her life. Of course she's intrigued... she's intelligent, vivacious and a woman ahead of her time. The Doctor appears to be a man unlike any she has ever met. The mysterious stranger that pops in and out of her life at just the right moment.
I am convinced that the Doctor does reciprocate those feelings but ultimately he is still an adventurer. His loneliness while in some ways inevitable is also self-imposed. He does have feelings in varying degrees for all his companions and particularly for some of his female companions but he knows and they know that he has no pretensions to being domestic. He will go on, no matter what. His appetite for adventure is seemingly insatiable.

This is why even though the show's been bombarding us with all these romantic overtures of late, I'm not too worried about the Doctor getting tied down. To a large extent, I think it is important for Rose (and perhaps new viewers) to be faced with that stark eventuality of associating with a time lord.

Willow'sCat
May 7th, 2006, 04:18 PM
I still think that there is enough ambiguity for the viewer to take whatever they want from it. There was no ambiguity, the look he gave the grown up Reinette said Woof!

The old Doc would have barley noticed her attractiveness IMO. ;)

On Outpost Gallifrey I notice there's been a lot of discussion about what Reinette really meant when she said... "there comes a time when the lonely boy needs to learn how to dance". Of course, with a modern audience, it's inevitable that a large proportion of people will take that to mean "sex" a la The Doctor Dances. Well that is what I thought but then I do live in the gutter. :D And we never did see them dance. ;)

Easter Lily
May 7th, 2006, 05:08 PM
There was no ambiguity, the look he gave the grown up Reinette said Woof!
I suppose what I was trying to say was that people can take what they want from the episode. If they want to see romance they can, if they don't want to they can as well.
It wasn't a comment about the Doctor's appreciation of Reinette obvious physical attractions. ;)
Frankly speaking, it's rather surprised me lately to hear more than one person say that the fourth doctor flirted with Romana because I never once thought he did. Obviously some people saw something there that I didn't.

Well that is what I thought but then I do live in the gutter. :D And we never did see them dance. ;)
Well, apparently the weekly commentary suggests that it was really just a dance.
His singing "I could have danced all night" and his mention that the French do give good parties gave me the impression that there wasn't any "hanky panky".

yaaayoubetcha
May 7th, 2006, 06:19 PM
I loved the ending - the reveal of the ship's name was really well done.

I would love to see a follow up ep at some point to see what the original point of the ship was and why, with the tech to travel thru time, the maintenance bots were clockwork.

I'm not ripping on the plot of this ep, I think it was excellent, i just think it would make a really great multi-doc ep down the line...get a regeneration in there in a few years and then have an ep set on the ship and have Tennant be on board as it's taking place near the timeline of this ep.

ShadowMaat
May 7th, 2006, 06:25 PM
I really liked this episode. Everybody in the room jumped when something moved under the bed. Genius! :p
LOL! I jumped a foot! Mom said, "What the heck are you watching?!" ;)

Madeleine
May 7th, 2006, 10:46 PM
That was the most romantic Who episode I've ever seen. (Romantic in the sense of sweepingly emotional and epic, rather than in the smoochy sense). The seven-year-old girl being saved by a man who tells her it's a dream, then later she meets him again and again; a 'lonely angel' who watches over her; and then she goes to her deathbed with faith that he'd come back for her, and he didn't, and he knows of her faith in him anyway. Beautiful.

Liked Mickey. He's slow, that one, but it doesn't mean he never gets there. It took him a long time to manage what Rose managed in twenty seconds, and decide he wanted ot go in with the Doctor, but now it's nice to see him so open to it all. And yet still a little bit dim, all that rolling about with the freeze thing :). Nice to see DT's Doctor still teases him, but it's in a *nice* way. I always thought CE was a bit too nasty to Mickey, it used to seem like the 'battle of wits with an unarmed man' scenario (thought I admit it was very funny). Rose seems to have got over her initial irritation at mickey coming along. Good.

I liked the reveal at the end too, with the name of the ship.

Best line: "I'll need money. Always been a bit vague about money. How do you get money?"

Hulabaloo
May 7th, 2006, 11:44 PM
You have to hand it to the orchestra. The music in this was excellent it captured the mood really well.

Egeria
May 8th, 2006, 01:17 AM
^ Completely agree with you about the music...it was brilliant. :)

Willow'sCat
May 8th, 2006, 01:30 AM
I suppose what I was trying to say was that people can take what they want from the episode. If they want to see romance they can, if they don't want to they can as well. Y-e-s got that. :cool: :rolleyes:

I don't get how anyone can see this episode as anything more than just a bit of fun, I can't believe how many people said they cried :S I laughed it was a funny episode. What was so teary about it anyway?


Well, apparently the weekly commentary suggests that it was really just a dance.
His singing "I could have danced all night" and his mention that the French do give good parties gave me the impression that there wasn't any "hanky panky".As for what TPTB say about the ep, well they would say that wouldn't they :cool: because otherwise there would be a revolt. ;) Doesn't mean they weren't going for that impression. :cool: I mean why use those words in particular? It was a nod and a wink.

Madeleine
May 8th, 2006, 02:39 AM
Didn't notice the music at all. I'll look out for it when I watch it again though :)

Easter Lily
May 8th, 2006, 02:54 AM
Y-e-s got that. :cool: :rolleyes:

I don't get how anyone can see this episode as anything more than just a bit of fun, I can't believe how many people said they cried :S I laughed it was a funny episode. What was so teary about it anyway?
I didn't tear up ... but I can see why someone would have... Probably when he found out that Reinette had passed on and also when the Doctor was reading the letter at the end. *shrugs* To each their own. Bits of it was funny but overall I thought it was more whimsical than outright "haha" funny.


As for what TPTB say about the ep, well they would say that wouldn't they :cool: because otherwise there would be a revolt. ;) Doesn't mean they weren't going for that impression. :cool: I mean why use those words in particular? It was a nod and a wink.
There is already a revolt anyway... denial or not... ;)

Darkstar
May 8th, 2006, 03:06 AM
This was a fairly desent episode, not great but i can see why it acheived a nomination last night, i hop it gets even better and if next week is anything to go by im sure it will :D

Jonzey
May 8th, 2006, 03:54 AM
Yeah, th music wass excellent, particulaly the slow piano pieces.

I just found the ending sad because he said he's be right back, so she waited the rest of her life for him and he never came. It's like that Futurama episode with Fry's dog from the past- the ending of that is really sad too. If you've seen it, you'll know what I mean.

But the ending really bugged me too- I mean, the Doctor was on the 'slow path' for maybe a few hours, which he found out when he went back was 5 and a half hours of the ships time, but the 10 seconds he spent on the ship before going back translated into 6 or 7 years.

Flyboy
May 8th, 2006, 04:19 AM
it wasnt brilliant, that was my though at first, but then i read this and i realised, it WAS brilliant. The mechanical men were great, not scary 4 me, but brilliant.
David T was exelent as per usual.
I liked the down play of Rose, not that i dont like rose, just shes TO main a charactor if you know what i mean.
I liked Mickey, and i hope he stays for a while. The ice guns were great.
i didnt get it all at first, but after a while i did.
moral of this stort: - Never get AI clockwork robots
Fire Extinguisher! ;)

Anyway... personally, if I'd have been the doc... I'd have sent Mickey through on the white horse, and then sent the TARDIS along afterwards as from the moment the time link is severed, theyre not part of events and can thus arrive and rescue Mickey.

I do have the issue that there were no friking Musketeers. They didnt have to even be the Three we all know and love, but seriously, it felt odd that there was no royal defence. The musketeers should have been in there defending their King. And frankly, the robots were not made for combat, a team of soldiers could have easily brought them down.

Darkseid
May 8th, 2006, 05:37 AM
After seeing the clips, I was expecting to hate this episode. Turned out that I enjoyed it, but only for different reasons then everyone else.

First off, we need to understand that this episode was nothing more or less then a love story. This wasn't an episode about The Doctor fighting androids (if it was, it was very anti-climactic), it was an episode about this woman falling in love with the Doctor and the Doctor finding a special relationship with her (I hardly think he loved her, didn't know her or think about her enough)

As it stands, it's not a secret that I do't care for the thought of the Doctor romantically linked to anyone. I prefer the asexual Doctor of yestur-year. Why? To me, the doctor seemed like someone who was once in love. In love with someone that he dedicated his life to her. Then, one day, he lost her, and he has been alone ever since. One reason why he keeps on his adventures, so that he doesn't just sit around and think of the one woman that ment more to him then anything.

So the thought of him falling for anyone else is, so, well, human....common....mundane.

Either way, here are some thoughts about this episode;

1) The Doc relise too much on his sonic screwdriver. Everytime I turn around he is pointing it at something and using it. So far, he has used it for, screwing/unscrewing, tricorder, lighter, remote control, etc. Pretty soon he will use it as a toaster. rectal themometer, radio, vibrator, camera, tape dispencer etc. Whatever happened to relying on his whits? I think the writers are using too much as a cruch.

2) Those robots were sweet! Were those inner-head workings CGI or real? Anyone know??

3) Sophia Myles was fantastic! I thougt her and Tennent were wonderful together, then I found out she is really Tennet's girlfriend. Guess it explains a lot.

4) I don't want to hear anyone to liked their kiss to complain about The Doctor's kiss with Grace Holloway. (personally, I hate both...)

5) I know the TARDIS translates for everyone, but could they at least tried to fake french accents?

6) Since when did the Doctor carry sunglasses? He hasn't left England practically since regeneration, and from what I understand it is cold and damp there (unless you watch the Christmas Invasion. In that one, even though it is Christmas, people ware shorts and sandles....)

7) Good too see that finally someone is travelling with the Doctor who isn't whiter then Conan O'Brian. Good job Mickey for bringing Doctor Who into the 1980s.

8) How is it androids don't have the spare parts fix a ship, but can come up with amazing costumes? Those were pretty cool looking...

9) What the hell are they doing a vulcan-mindmeld for? I mean, if the Doctor wants to know something about someone, why doesn't he do it every week? Come on guys, leave that to a different show and come up with your own gimmicks.

10) I was sad when the show was over, mostly for the Doctor who was left to believe that he let somone who cared for him down in a way that he shouldn't have, but he didn't have a choice nor did he intend to. Next week's episode, which everyone is more excited about then Christmas, didn't look too thrilling to me in the trailer. But, we'll see.......

yaaayoubetcha
May 8th, 2006, 06:57 AM
Anyway... personally, if I'd have been the doc... I'd have sent Mickey through on the white horse, and then sent the TARDIS along afterwards as from the moment the time link is severed, theyre not part of events and can thus arrive and rescue Mickey.

Well yah...and if I was in command of the Enterprise I'd never send all the senior officers on the same away team...lol

I understand it was an attempt at drama...ooo...will the doctor be trapped?? ooo...

but since we know he won't...it wasn't really a big dramatic event.
if anything, this ending...the whole moving the fireplace thing...really seemed a bit cheesier to me than the drug shower at the end of New Earth.


Doesn't take much away from the ep...still thought it was great...just one of two things that really bothered me.

Reefgirl
May 8th, 2006, 07:14 AM
Ok my turn. I've only just got around to watching it

I loved every minute Sophia Myles was brilliant in this (Lucky Cow got to snog DT on AND off screen) it wasn't the best episode ever but it still kept me enthralled. Re: Madam de Pompadour and the Doctor, she's a Courtisan, trained to be someone's mistress, she was probably acting on instinct, the Doctor is a powerful man who can protect her and provide her with what she needs, say no more.. I loved the Doctor Drunk, DT does this really well. Fav Quote: I've just snogged Madam de Pompadour

I still say it's brilliant and the bit at the end with Louis and the Doctor, Louis knowing that his mistress prefered another man and the Doctor knowing she was gone and he couldn't mess with time to bring her back. Even Mickey taking Rose away to let the Doctor grieve was a stroke of genius.

This ep didn't just bring a lump to the throat this bought tears.

Naonak
May 8th, 2006, 09:40 AM
I didn't enjoy this episode as much as the others in this season, although it was a good episode. I liked the mix of historical and sci-fi. There were some good one-liners too.

"Mickey, what is pre-revolutionary France doing on a spaceship?!? Get some perspective!"


Cybermen! Cybermen! Cybermen! Woo!

pbellosom
May 8th, 2006, 09:48 AM
[QUOTE=Darkseid]9) What the hell are they doing a vulcan-mindmeld for? I mean, if the Doctor wants to know something about someone, why doesn't he do it every week? Come on guys, leave that to a different show and come up with your own gimmicks.
QUOTE]

It's been done before, I haven't seen much classic Who so I don't know how often its been used but he had it in the "Three Doctors"

Flyboy
May 8th, 2006, 10:15 AM
After seeing the clips, I was expecting to hate this episode. Turned out that I enjoyed it, but only for different reasons then everyone else.

First off, we need to understand that this episode was nothing more or less then a love story. This wasn't an episode about The Doctor fighting androids (if it was, it was very anti-climactic), it was an episode about this woman falling in love with the Doctor and the Doctor finding a special relationship with her (I hardly think he loved her, didn't know her or think about her enough)

As it stands, it's not a secret that I do't care for the thought of the Doctor romantically linked to anyone. I prefer the asexual Doctor of yestur-year. Why? To me, the doctor seemed like someone who was once in love. In love with someone that he dedicated his life to her. Then, one day, he lost her, and he has been alone ever since. One reason why he keeps on his adventures, so that he doesn't just sit around and think of the one woman that ment more to him then anything.

So the thought of him falling for anyone else is, so, well, human....common....mundane.

Either way, here are some thoughts about this episode;

1) The Doc relise too much on his sonic screwdriver. Everytime I turn around he is pointing it at something and using it. So far, he has used it for, screwing/unscrewing, tricorder, lighter, remote control, etc. Pretty soon he will use it as a toaster. rectal themometer, radio, vibrator, camera, tape dispencer etc. Whatever happened to relying on his whits? I think the writers are using too much as a cruch.

2) Those robots were sweet! Were those inner-head workings CGI or real? Anyone know??

3) Sophia Myles was fantastic! I thougt her and Tennent were wonderful together, then I found out she is really Tennet's girlfriend. Guess it explains a lot.

4) I don't want to hear anyone to liked their kiss to complain about The Doctor's kiss with Grace Holloway. (personally, I hate both...)

5) I know the TARDIS translates for everyone, but could they at least tried to fake french accents?

6) Since when did the Doctor carry sunglasses? He hasn't left England practically since regeneration, and from what I understand it is cold and damp there (unless you watch the Christmas Invasion. In that one, even though it is Christmas, people ware shorts and sandles....)

7) Good too see that finally someone is travelling with the Doctor who isn't whiter then Conan O'Brian. Good job Mickey for bringing Doctor Who into the 1980s.

8) How is it androids don't have the spare parts fix a ship, but can come up with amazing costumes? Those were pretty cool looking...

9) What the hell are they doing a vulcan-mindmeld for? I mean, if the Doctor wants to know something about someone, why doesn't he do it every week? Come on guys, leave that to a different show and come up with your own gimmicks.

10) I was sad when the show was over, mostly for the Doctor who was left to believe that he let somone who cared for him down in a way that he shouldn't have, but he didn't have a choice nor did he intend to. Next week's episode, which everyone is more excited about then Christmas, didn't look too thrilling to me in the trailer. But, we'll see.......
Regarding your "vulcan mind meld" Doctor Who had it long before Trek did. Gallifreyans, or at least Time Lords are capable of communicating psychically and exploring other indiviudal's minds.

The cybermen? It's a classic Who fan's dream come true! If you cant understand the excitement, Im betting you never watched the old series, the Cybermen are as big as the daleks.

Im just thankful the cybermen didnt end up gold this time.

IMForeman
May 8th, 2006, 11:10 AM
6) Since when did the Doctor carry sunglasses? He hasn't left England practically since regeneration, and from what I understand it is cold and damp there (unless you watch the Christmas Invasion. In that one, even though it is Christmas, people ware shorts and sandles....)



Since his second incarnation, apparantly.

http://nei1.net/34.jpg

And it does get sunny and hot in England, you know...

Darkseid
May 8th, 2006, 11:21 AM
Since his second incarnation, apparantly.

http://nei1.net/34.jpg

And it does get sunny and hot in England, you know...

.....well I'll be damned....

What episode was that from? I don't recall seeing that one....

Hulabaloo
May 8th, 2006, 12:20 PM
.....well I'll be damned....

What episode was that from? I don't recall seeing that one....


Great pic!

Yes it does get hot and sunny in England!

Reefgirl
May 8th, 2006, 02:04 PM
Great pic!

Yes it does get hot and sunny in England!
Take it from one who finally dug hers out last week, and dug her brolly out on Saturday

Darkseid
May 8th, 2006, 02:21 PM
I know it gets hot and sunny in england. I was more or less joking. I live in the pcific northwest, and it gets bloody hot out here from June until September. Most people around the country don't belive how hot it gets when I tell them due to Oregon's reputation for rain.

Metarock Sam
May 8th, 2006, 03:00 PM
Well I live down south where if it isnt bpoiling hot it is raining.

Reefgirl
May 8th, 2006, 03:17 PM
I agree with everything Sam says seeing as I live across the Harbour from him it was shorts and t-shirt weather here at the end of last week now I've had to dig my brolly and wellies out again

IMForeman
May 8th, 2006, 04:29 PM
.....well I'll be damned....

What episode was that from? I don't recall seeing that one....

The Underwater Menace. It's a missing tale.

Darkseid
May 8th, 2006, 07:18 PM
The Underwater Menace. It's a missing tale.


Which would explain why I have never seen it....

yaaayoubetcha
May 9th, 2006, 05:54 AM
The cybermen? It's a classic Who fan's dream come true! If you cant understand the excitement, Im betting you never watched the old series, the Cybermen are as big as the daleks.

Im just thankful the cybermen didnt end up gold this time.

I actually prefer the Cybemen to the Daleks...

Reefgirl
May 9th, 2006, 05:56 AM
The Cybermen weren't as Behind-the-sofa scary as the daleks but still creepy

Willow'sCat
May 9th, 2006, 07:34 AM
6) Since when did the Doctor carry sunglasses? He hasn't left England practically since regeneration, and from what I understand it is cold and damp there (unless you watch the Christmas Invasion. In that one, even though it is Christmas, people ware shorts and sandles....)He carries lots of things in his pockets, always has. :S


9) What the hell are they doing a vulcan-mindmeld for? I mean, if the Doctor wants to know something about someone, why doesn't he do it every week? Come on guys, leave that to a different show and come up with your own gimmicks.
OK see what happens when you don't read my posts. :p Already said he has done this many times before and yeah I am pretty sure he did it long before that other show! :cool:

Nuallain
May 12th, 2006, 06:41 AM
Ta-Da!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/doctorwho/classic/photonovels/underwater_menace/three/34.shtml

NowIWillDestroyAbydos
May 20th, 2006, 08:33 PM
I watched the ep about 2 hours ago (along with ep 5) and it have it's great moments. Like the Doctor and the horse, man were those scenes funny. I give it a **1/2

luthienberen
June 1st, 2006, 01:57 PM
I loved this episode and is my favourite of the series so far. To me, it held the essence of the 'old' Dr. Who. Also, I think David Tentent (sp?) is surperb as the Doctor. And Madame de Pompdeour was breathtaking (in acting, characterisation and looks). The best bit was when she knew his name.

She should have

have gone with him and not have been killed off!

Spoliers are probably not needed, but just in case...

I hope that more episodes with the same essence will appear. This series is a vast improvement on Christopher Eccleston's Doctor and the stories.

GhostPoet
July 22nd, 2006, 10:56 AM
Y-e-s got that. :cool: :rolleyes:

I don't get how anyone can see this episode as anything more than just a bit of fun, I can't believe how many people said they cried :S I laughed it was a funny episode. What was so teary about it anyway?

As for what TPTB say about the ep, well they would say that wouldn't they :cool: because otherwise there would be a revolt. ;) Doesn't mean they weren't going for that impression. :cool: I mean why use those words in particular? It was a nod and a wink.


It had some funny parts...but it was SO SAD. :(
How could you laugh at her being dead after the Doctor said he'd be right back? Where's your heart? :(

silverdamascus
July 24th, 2006, 02:58 PM
This was such a sad and moving episode with some wonderfully funny moments. It's just become my fave one yet over the Empty Child. :D

Albion
August 14th, 2006, 02:23 PM
Well, I have to say that this was my favourite S2 episode so far (I still have the remainder of the season to watch).

I had a quiet chuckle to myself when I heard the name Reinette because I've just finished reading Rosalind Laker's To Dance With Kings - all about the same characters/time period. So that immediately perked up my interest.

But there was so much to love. Loads of hilarious moments and lines - too many to quote, though some of my favourites have already been used by other posters. Adored Arthur and enjoyed Mickey and Rose wandering around on their own getting into trouble.

I have no clue who Sophia Myles was - although she looked familiar - but I thought she did a superb job in the role. And what a beautiful, smart, witty script - especially in the dialogue she and the Doctor were given.

The masque robots were very creepy, I found - possibly because I've always found dolls or doll masks very spooky. Used to have nightmares about them as a child. <shudder>. The revelation that the crew had been used as spare parts was also very chilling.

I loved the portrait of Reinette appearing behind the TARDIS as it left and the reveal of the ship's name was the perfect ending.

Towards the end though I started to get a little confused. Reinette seemed keen to go with the Doctor when he told her to pack a bag - so I was confused when she then hared off to Paris instead. Was more time supposed to have passed in between the Doctor leaving and coming back for her? Why would she change her mind in just seconds? It made even less sense when her letter - apparently written when she left for Paris - talked as though it had been written from her deathbed. She certainly wasn't 'weak' when she left in her carriage.

Secondly - who was the 'footman' who knew the future? He was talking about her dying at 43 as he watched her leave in her carriage for Paris, how 'illness took her in the end'. If he was just a footman of the period, how could he know these things? If he was supposed to be something more than that - what was he? And when did they tell us who he was and how he knew? I've only seen the episode once, so may have missed the answer.

I'll have to watch it again and see if those questions are answered. But in the meantime, this was just a terrific episode, beautifully written and acted, with a sharp script. In turns, funny, poignant and scary.

Loved, loved, loved it.

Albion :)

Darkstar
August 15th, 2006, 03:24 AM
I always thought that the carrige at the end of this episode was the coffin and that she had been returned home for a final farewell then was taken to be laid to rest in her own grave????

I could have thought wrong but until now i just assumed that's how it ended

The Signal
August 15th, 2006, 04:01 AM
^Yup, she died and the carriage was taking her to be buried. Still love this episode, DT did a fantastic job at the end.

Admiral Mappalazarou
August 15th, 2006, 04:06 AM
I've seen all of season two, and I thought that this was the best just above Doomsday and Age of Steel and The Satan Pit - which were in my top awesome 4.

Albion
August 15th, 2006, 07:28 AM
Thanks those who answered my questions - yes, you're absolutely right. It finally occured to me to check out the transcript of the episode and all became clear!

I'd watched this one on a download, and the quality was such that it wasn't clear enough to let me see that a/ the man talking to the Doctor wasn't the servant from earlier (the one who told the Doctor Reinette's full name back at the start) as I supposed, but actually King Louis. And b/ that the 'carriage' leaving Versailles was in fact a hearse carrying Reinette's coffin. I had assumed from the glimpse I got that it was just a carriage taking her away and she was still alive.

And because I hadn't realised it was King Louis he was talking to and not the footman the importance of the line "So many years since I saw you last, yet not a day of it on your face.' didn't register with me either.

Now that I've figured all of that out, :D everything makes sense and I'm struck by just how much more poignant the ending was from what I'd previously realised.

What a truly great episode! The addition of realising how much angst there is in the final five minutes or so, just makes it all the more powerful for me.

Superb.

Albion :)


PS Thank heavens for transcripts! ;)

Darkstar
August 16th, 2006, 05:55 AM
Yes it did have the finest story to it, the angst was great and the ending was done in my mind as one of the best, it just ends quietly with the Tardis fading away to reveal the painting of Reinette behind it, leaving behind a quiet and empty space station rounded the feeling up, but they had to show the name of the ship.....we'll probably never find out fully but it's a nice end.
:D

Hulabaloo
August 17th, 2006, 04:58 AM
This, above all Season Two eps, is my faveourite. I just love the story is in this one.

Darkstar
August 17th, 2006, 05:28 AM
This episode for me isn't the ususal episode that i would prefere or should i say rush home to watch, but having nothing to do that time i watched and was hooked, the story was brilliant and the mystery was compelling, not being a history buff as such i never really had a thing for men wearing wigs and so so in this era but the episode both in the future and past was done very well, for a sci fi show to impress me or suprise me is rare and Dr Who did it with this episode just sloted in between an ongoing storyline that was back on earth with the school and the bad guys that were Cybermen that followed, this episode wa a little gen in the chaos of episodes and will now always be a favourite :D

doylefan22
August 18th, 2006, 04:01 AM
I can't say I was particularly keen on this one. As good as the story was the characterisation was completely off. Rose, who previous episode was utterly jealous of Sarah Jane and certainly didn't want Mickey there, was suddenly totally happy with his presence and didn't mind in the slightest that the Doctor was paying a lot of attention to Reinette. The Doctor, who previous episode had struggled to show how much he really cared for both Rose and Sarah Jane, was suddenly acting like a love sick puppy around Reinette. I found those inconsistencies really jarring. Moffat was apparently told nothing of what had come in the episode before his and admits he would have written things differently had he seen it.

And nothing was made of the Doctor's decision to leave - he stranded Mickey and Rose there and if he didn't make it back they would have died. She should at least have questioned him about it, mentioned she was worried he was never coming back, at least subtly hinted that she was scared or angry but there was nothing.

Oh and would he really be so stupid as to tell Madame to wait two minutes while apparently he went and did nothing, having previously seen that even a few moments on our side means many months pass on the other - how come he didn't realise she would be waiting years?

LaCroix
October 20th, 2006, 06:32 PM
I'm in agreement too. I loved this episode. Not much to say, I think the above posts of those who loved it say it well.

Nolamom
October 20th, 2006, 07:15 PM
I've read biographies of Marie Antoinette, and her envy of Madame du Pompadour - her accomplishments, her charm, her wit. A fitting consort for a king - or a time lord. A very enjoyable episode.

nell
October 20th, 2006, 07:41 PM
The. Doctor. Did. Not. Kiss. Her!

Seriously, she kissed him, not the other way around. He was all happy about it because of the fact that it was Madame du whatsherface, not cause he particularly enjoyed it.

But the good doctor did enjoy her kiss! This was a romantic story after all. I have to add that those robot things were downright menacing looking in their costumes! Overall an enjoyable show!

MasySyma
October 20th, 2006, 07:54 PM
But the good doctor did enjoy her kiss! This was a romantic story after all. I have to add that those robot things were downright menacing looking in their costumes! Overall an enjoyable show!

Agreed. She kissed him, but he wasn't fighting her off. I'm not having a problem with the Doctor's romantic side so far. Sarah Jane was from his past; Rose may or may not be attached to him; and I think this episode was the Doctor trying to move past his feelings for Rose since she brought Mickey along.

As you can tell, I liked the episode.

Pros:

1. I thought the episode was well written, mostly. I enjoyed the Doctor's relationship with the heroine of the week. It was nice to see that she could recognize the Doctor's virtue without turning into Queen Victoria and exiling him. (It's probably good that she didn't spend much time with Rose then.) :)

2. Rose was used sparingly. I loved her in Series 27, but in Series 28, she is becoming annoying. I know the spoilers about her, so I'm sure that my reaction is what the writers are wanting. However, I liked that she was less annoying and somewhat helpful this week.

3. The episode was filmed well. We jumped at the monster under the bed too. I also loved the ending and seeing the Doctor's emotions.

Cons:

1. While I'm thrilled that Mickey wasn't annoying and was somewhat helpful, does he do anything other than amuse Rose? :confused:

2. The glitch at the end bothers me after reading Shadow's post. I agree. I find it a bit careless to leave her knowing that time is passing in her world with a "stay there" command. Then again, the Doctor was rather excited, and while lovable, he does have a bit of the classic absent-minded professor about him.

Overall, it is a great episode worth seeing without all of SciFi's crappy commercials. 9/10.

gatebuster64
October 21st, 2006, 03:37 PM
excellant episode, although those robots weren't scary, they were quite interesting, however i might of miised but anyway when the doctor galloped the horse through thetime portal, why couldn't he just find another portal or use the tardis?



Couldn't they just have used the TARDIS to go back to when she was alive?

No, cos he can't cross his own time path
i don't understand why that would be so

SGalisa
October 22nd, 2006, 08:16 PM
too many details to simply skip over... so here goes... :)


Originally posted by Flying Officer Bennett:
First and foremost. Thank God there was no torchwood reference. TPTB are living up to my hopes, Torchwood everywhere WOULD be out of context,...I think if viewers watching Torchwood would keep its existence in mind within the 10th Doctor's timeline, and not his previous others, it might make better sense. That's how I'll be tracking it - if we ever even get to *see* "Torchwood," that is.

We're all traveling foward with the Doctor even tho he jokes about never knowing which direction he's actually going, for himself... Also, try to keep in mind that the Doctor tends to see his own future at times - a bit foggy or vague as it may be - but perhaps it's a gift from the Tardis' heart/soul?


Originally posted by Darkseid:
9) What the hell are they doing a vulcan-mindmeld for? I mean, if the Doctor wants to know something about someone, why doesn't he do it every week?he's only done it in *extreme* emergencies. And I can see now why Star Trek viewers might get upset. I never took that POV into consideration, when I saw the Doctor do any mind-merging; and I've seen Star Trek in its original first run during the 1960's.

He's a Time-Lord, so his use of mind-merging often relates directly to Time. As Doctor # 4, he helped Sarah Jane go into a breathing hybernation mode that way, because they were both trapped and someone shut off their air supply. He had to slow down her breathing, because she didn't know how to do it, in order to save them both. And
he said he gained that little knowledge trick from some monks over in a Tibetan monastery or something like that... thus, it had more of a "Kung Fu" connection, than Star Trek! ;)


Originally posted by gatebuster64:
excellant episode, ...but anyway when the doctor galloped the horse through thetime portal, why couldn't he just find another portal or use the tardis?from what he knew, the portals were all being blocked by the bot clocks - all except for the one he didn't know about that was Off-line at the time. I thought of him using the Tardis, but that's an iffy risk - especially if the Tardis didn't co-operate on where he wanted to go.. it usually doesn't on most occasions, except mostly when there's a lesson to be learned.

Therefore, I think the horse was more for *dramatic* effect, and a nice effect it was at that!! Plus, it fit more with the time period - rather than scaring the crowd away even moreso with the Tardis appearing and disappearing, and then having to explain it along with the robot clocks. Less clutter of technical info to explain away to people who have never seen such things, anyway...

Also, unless David is a good equestrian, I doubt if that was all him doing the actual jumping scene... it was still an interesting contrast from the traditional sci-fi norm. And, it was nice to see the Doctor's grand entrance on a horse - as the proverbial knight on a white (whitish) horse - in slo-motion... :)

SGalisa
October 22nd, 2006, 08:25 PM
oh gosh, I've got more!

Originally posted by IMForeman:
Oh, this was so beautiful. A modern fairy tale, complete with monsters and a mythical hero, all mixed in with a tragic love story. This wasn't just great Doctor Who... this was great television. This everything I wished Doctor Who could do. I really did cry at the end of this. It's just that wonderful.

Beautiful.and whimsical. yes, it was! I'll always enjoy those *period* pieces. The ending was truly sad, tho. Wonder what star she was watching, and if she actually did see the Tardis somewhere in a comet trail - on another episode adventure - between the timelines... He missed her only by a few moments on his side, but that ended up as forever from her side of life. :(

Still, the ending of the Doctor tragically losing Reinette showed a *tender* side of him that was rarely shown as deeply moving as in the classic old eps.



Originally posted by Albion:
I loved the portrait of Reinette appearing behind the TARDIS as it left and the reveal of the ship's name was the perfect ending.
Originally posted by Darkstar:
...and the ending was done in my mind as one of the best, it just ends quietly with the Tardis fading away to reveal the painting of Reinette behind it, leaving behind a quiet and empty space station rounded the feeling up, but they had to show the name of the ship.....we'll probably never find out fully but it's a nice end.That's the way some of the *classic* DW's ended... ;)


Originally posted by The Signal:
The Doctor, emotional at the end, pulled off to perfection.
The Doctor drunk, pretty damned hilarious!

Originally posted by Flying Officer Bennett:
...The doctor, when he was "drunk" was amazing, loved him, especially with those damn cool shades and tie round his head, loved his singing to.He did confess to Rose that he has had a few drinks now and then... I just never really expected to see him so soused! But he sobered up awful quick, too. :p
(DW Season 27 / DW revived series = Season 1)


Originally posted by Willow'sCat:
There was no ambiguity, the look he gave the grown up Reinette said Woof!LOL!! *stunned* by first impressions... too funny!! :D



Originally posted by Metarock Sam:
I thought it was great that Madame P called the Doctor Fireplace man alot which was funny and she kissed him not he kissed her.

Originally posted by Flying Officer Bennett:
The. Doctor. Did. Not. Kiss. Her!

Seriously, she kissed him, not the other way around. He was all happy about it because of the fact that it was Madame du whatsherface, not cause he particularly enjoyed it.

Originally posted by nell:
But the good doctor did enjoy her kiss! This was a romantic story after all.
Originally posted by MasySyma:
Agreed. She kissed him, but he wasn't fighting her off.yes, he wasn't *exactly* pushing her away... I thought he actually drew her in a little at one point.
it must be a side effect from being male and *in the moment*... ;)
And it was a rather *lingering* kiss, too... one that he seemed to almost grow dizzy from... :)


Originally posted by MasySyma:
I'm not having a problem with the Doctor's romantic side so far.Surprisingly, neither am I; and that is one area I really dreaded when I began hearing the rumors... and pray it never goes into actual full-length visual BSG (bed)scene directions... but that's just me.

Yet, at the same time I have to realize that the Doctor is moving on with his life - 900 plus years and still learning about life's little nuances. Ever since he made a comment in "Father's Day" to the bride and groom (Season 27 with Rose) about never having such a romantic moment like that in his ever-busy life, the possibly exists of him entertaining the idea of what it must be like to just enjoy "being in love at 2 a.m.!" And aside from the Tv writing and censors of the 1960's, etc, that's the only explanation I can rationally comprehend at why such moments are now being revealed in his life. He's beginning to enjoy the slower moments and savoring them when he encounters them...

"I've been *snogged* by Madame de Pompdeour!" :D
*snogged*?? haven't heard that in a long while!!

Admiral Mappalazarou
October 26th, 2006, 05:39 AM
I think that this episode is definately up there with season 27's Dalek, because I thought that it was bloody kick-ass brilliant.:):):):):):):):):)

Doxymom
October 26th, 2006, 02:46 PM
Just wondering...do you all know of any DW fic (AU or otherwise) in which Reinette actually got to travel with the Doctor? I'd love to read a few adventures with them, whatever the author's explanation of how she got aboard the Tardis.

Thanks!
Doxymom

Jax
October 26th, 2006, 08:05 PM
Just wondering...do you all know of any DW fic (AU or otherwise) in which Reinette actually got to travel with the Doctor? I'd love to read a few adventures with them, whatever the author's explanation of how she got aboard the Tardis.

Thanks!
Doxymom

There are a few. Sadly most of them I think involve Reinette bashing, since the fangirls (and to a much lesser extent fanboys) feel their favourite 'ship is threatened. You know, Reinette being an b*tchy idiot who'll sleep with the first person who shows up, constantly insulting Rose and treating the Doctor like dirt. Oh and Rose has suddenly become a saint, who can do no wrong and is actually strangly not Rose like. Seriously, these girls have a hard time writing any of the characters "in character".

However, there is one fanfic that had them fully in character I believe. As luck would have it though, I have no idea what it would be. Best try hear and search for Reinette:- http://www.whofic.com/

Doxymom
October 27th, 2006, 05:36 AM
There are a few. Sadly most of them I think involve Reinette bashing, since the fangirls (and to a much lesser extent fanboys) feel their favourite 'ship is threatened. You know, Reinette being an b*tchy idiot who'll sleep with the first person who shows up, constantly insulting Rose and treating the Doctor like dirt. Oh and Rose has suddenly become a saint, who can do no wrong and is actually strangly not Rose like. Seriously, these girls have a hard time writing any of the characters "in character".

However, there is one fanfic that had them fully in character I believe. As luck would have it though, I have no idea what it would be. Best try hear and search for Reinette:- http://www.whofic.com/


Jax,

Thank you kindly! Unfortunately, I understand the ship situation. I'm pretty relaxed about ships myself, despite having some I prefer a little more over others.

In Doctor Who, I haven't seen enough of the new episodes to even decide which Doc I like best let alone pick a ship. As a multi-shipper, I may just *not* pick one and read them all instead. :D I must say I adore the new series. I hadn't seen any DW since Peter Davison left since it hasn't aired anywhere I've lived.

I just loved Reinette's character and the interaction with Doc 10. Shoot, maybe I'll have to find time to write a few myself. I also liked Rose and Doc 9's interactions though.

Thanks for the link to the archive. I'll see if I can find the one in-character fic. I definitely prefer in-character stories, unless there's a reasonable and well-thought-out excuse for the weird behavior. Your description of the out of character fics is hilarious. I've read some of those in other fandoms and just rolled my eyes. Thanks for the warning. Now I won't be too p*ssed if I read one like that because I'll be expecting it and just stop reading at the first signs.

Have a great weekend,
Doxymom

lord-anubis
October 28th, 2006, 07:16 PM
just saw this ep better then i thought. when i saw the pewives it dident look all that good the ending made me sad thou

LadyLord75
April 12th, 2007, 04:19 PM
Great writing. God bless Steven Moffatt.

superstar123
April 13th, 2007, 01:22 PM
love this episode but I prefer Rose/Doctor than Reinette/Doctor, but thats just me. :) Loved it when the Doctor starts singing. lol and i love this line:

Doctor: Oh ho ho ho ho, brilliant. It's you! You're my favourite, you are, you are the best! Do you know why? 'Cause you're so thick. You're Mister Thick Thick Thickity Thick Face from Thicktown, Thickania. (as an afterthought) And so's your dad.

lol gotta love David tennant!:cool:

Coco Pops
May 10th, 2008, 08:12 AM
I loved this.....

I just wateched the episode again tonight and this time around I felt so sad at the end with the TARDIS leaving and we see the painting and then the slow revelal of the station and the name on it.

Things that lingered.

1) The name of the station. Does this mean they finally did get her brain?

2) I'm surprised that the Doc didn't think of the original fireplace when the mirror cut things off. Had Reinette not told him he would have been thick as planks on this point.

My favourite line was the Doctor saying "I got to snot Madame De Pompadour" That was brilliant.


And most importantly Reinette knew the Doctor's name. His proper name I mean from the mind reading he did with her.

Gate-builder
May 10th, 2008, 10:04 PM
I loved this.....

I just wateched the episode again tonight and this time around I felt so sad at the end with the TARDIS leaving and we see the painting and then the slow revelal of the station and the name on it.

Things that lingered.

1) The name of the station. Does this mean they finally did get her brain?


Definitely one of the best episodes. They didn't get her brain in the end, I think the only reason they were after her specifically was because the ship was named after her, so for some reason they thought it was her brain that was needed.

Coco Pops
September 13th, 2008, 01:51 AM
My favourite episode of this particular series of Who......


Couple of afterthoughts on this one.

a) when they landed howcome they didn't use the scanner to see their surroundngs, and I venture to guess had they done that they would have seen the painting on the wall behind the Tardis......

b) Was this spaceship some kind of time research ship? It's not explained how they can open portals into the past but to have that kind of thing ready to go they must have been doing some kind of timey wimey research...... How would ordinary droids have that much access to the ship anyway?

gateship15
October 2nd, 2008, 03:38 AM
My favourite episode of this particular series of Who......


Couple of afterthoughts on this one.

a) when they landed howcome they didn't use the scanner to see their surroundngs, and I venture to guess had they done that they would have seen the painting on the wall behind the Tardis......

b) Was this spaceship some kind of time research ship? It's not explained how they can open portals into the past but to have that kind of thing ready to go they must have been doing some kind of timey wimey research...... How would ordinary droids have that much access to the ship anyway?

i believe that maybe the scanner may not always work or that the doctor doesn't want to wast time looking in a scanner rather then jest going out there and having a look. i also think that maybe that it may of been just that.or it could have been a safety thing, just in case the ship was ever damage. i also think the droids were ment to be there put into the ship by the people who made it in order to keep the ship going to were ever it was ment to

Coco Pops
October 2nd, 2008, 04:47 AM
i believe that maybe the scanner may not always work or that the doctor doesn't want to wast time looking in a scanner rather then jest going out there and having a look. i also think that maybe that it may of been just that.or it could have been a safety thing, just in case the ship was ever damage. i also think the droids were ment to be there put into the ship by the people who made it in order to keep the ship going to were ever it was ment to


But my point is. Did the original crow have access to time technology that the droids might have accessed? I guess 51st century and all everyone must know of time travel........ Maybe it was an archeology ship .. Ooh maybe one of River Song's colleagues..

gateship15
October 3rd, 2008, 01:14 AM
But my point is. Did the original crow have access to time technology that the droids might have accessed? I guess 51st century and all everyone must know of time travel........ Maybe it was an archeology ship .. Ooh maybe one of River Song's colleagues..

that is possible altho i thought that only the time loards had such technology

pbellosom
October 3rd, 2008, 08:57 AM
that is possible altho i thought that only the time loards had such technology

By Captain Jack's time, humans have time travel

Pharaoh Atem
October 5th, 2008, 06:42 AM
best line

Rose: Oh no, your not keeping the horse
Doctor: Why, you get to keep Mickey!

:P

wonderful ep and great to see the doctor willing to sacifice himself and stay trapped to save a complate stranger

9/10

Coco Pops
October 5th, 2008, 06:53 AM
best line

Rose: Oh no, your not keeping the horse
Doctor: Why, you get to keep Mickey!

:P

wonderful ep and great to see the doctor willing to sacifice himself and stay trapped to save a complate stranger

9/10




Another good line was the one where he ran to tell rose that he had snogged Madame De Pompadour and he sounded so excited and giddy.

Pharaoh Atem
October 5th, 2008, 07:48 AM
yup :P

gateship15
October 6th, 2008, 02:33 AM
lol she was so jealous. i like rose talking to the robots about the on coming storm and he comes in faking to be drunk lol

Pharaoh Atem
October 9th, 2008, 04:42 AM
lol she was so jealous. i like rose talking to the robots about the on coming storm and he comes in faking to be drunk lol

david's good at switching from one thing and then back to the doctor

Coco Pops
October 9th, 2008, 04:55 AM
david's good at switching from one thing and then back to the doctor


I've just seen the Cassanova mini series and I can't help but think how "Doctory" he is in some scenes.....

I don't know how many people here might have watched that but I kept getting lots of Dr. Who kind of moments during the show.

gateship15
October 24th, 2008, 12:53 AM
i like how the doctors English and the acter is Scottish or Irish

Pharaoh Atem
October 24th, 2008, 05:00 AM
david is Scottish

gateship15
October 25th, 2008, 12:51 AM
i thought so my parents said irish but i like how he can change his accent

Cold Fuzz
January 31st, 2010, 11:59 PM
Really heartbreaking ending for Reinette & the Doc. At this point in the series, the Doctor hasn't fallen for Rose yet so he was open to someone like Reinette. There was part of him that really did want to take her with him and possibly have a relationship greater than that of a companion--otherwise he wouldn't have kept that final letter from her.

gateship15
February 1st, 2010, 12:06 AM
i agree i think it was very very sad that in the end she died before the doctor got to take her with him

Coco Pops
February 1st, 2010, 05:23 PM
This is one of my all time favourite episodes.

I wonder why they didn't use the tardis scanner to peek at the wall behind them, had they done that they would have seen the painting and the name of the ship. That whole ending scene was sad as we see the ship one last time and all the lights are going out...

Not to mention the music that was gorgeous especially the theme they had for this episode which I play often on the soundtrack CD..

gateship15
February 1st, 2010, 09:04 PM
u agree with that

pbellosom
February 2nd, 2010, 05:59 AM
I wonder why they didn't use the tardis scanner to peek at the wall behind them, had they done that they would have seen the painting and the name of the ship. That whole ending scene was sad as we see the ship one last time and all the lights are going out...


Because they had no idea there'd be something there to look at.

I do love that ending scene, one of my favourite in the whole show.

Coco Pops
February 2nd, 2010, 07:22 AM
Because they had no idea there'd be something there to look at.

I do love that ending scene, one of my favourite in the whole show.

It's not just the scene, but the closing music... I get tearful towards the end of this episode.

gateship15
February 2nd, 2010, 07:37 PM
i cried at the end of this ep

Gamma626
October 24th, 2010, 08:37 AM
Loved this one. I liked how the end played out.

Pharaoh Atem
October 24th, 2010, 10:34 PM
i love how the doctor was willing to stay in the past to help 1 person

Steve Walker
February 2nd, 2012, 11:25 PM
In the second episode of the Austen Space Podcast, where period drama meets sci-fi, we do an audio commentary for The Girl in the Fireplace; feel free to download or subscribe here:

http://austenspace.libsyn.com/webpag...-the-fireplace

http://itunes.apple.com/au/podcast/austen-space-podcast/id496545273

Cheers, Steve

Coco Pops
March 19th, 2012, 08:27 PM
I really enjoyed this ep.

The premise was interesting and the final resolution was great. I loved the clockwork bots and their programming to repair the ship was greusomely funny. Smells like bbq.

I'd like to see more eps like this, with some well thought out villains. Could be a great follow up ep somewhere down the line where we can find out what the ship was and why it was there in the first place.


This has to be my all time favourite episode of "New Who" the music, actng, everything is near perfect.. And the heartbreak for the Doctor as I sensed he might have had a thing for Reinette.

maneth
June 5th, 2012, 08:22 PM
Cool episode definitely, and I loved the ending.

maneth
July 30th, 2014, 09:13 AM
Still love this episode. :)

Coco Pops
July 30th, 2014, 09:50 AM
Me too it makes me tear up a little at the end