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GateWorld
April 14th, 2006, 01:17 PM
<DIV ALIGN=CENTER><TABLE WIDTH=450 BORDER=0 CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=7><TR><TD STYLE="border:0;"><DIV ALIGN=LEFT><FONT FACE="Arial" SIZE=2 COLOR="#000000"><A HREF="http://www.scifistream.com/doctor-who/s2/"><IMG SRC="http://www.scifistream.com/wp-content/uploads/202.jpg" WIDTH=160 HEIGHT=120 ALIGN=RIGHT HSPACE=10 VSPACE=2 BORDER=0 STYLE="border:1px solid #000;" ALT="Visit the Episode Guide"></A><FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#888888">DOCTOR WHO SERIES 28</FONT>
<FONT SIZE=4><A HREF="http://www.scifistream.com/doctor-who/s2/" STYLE="text-decoration: none">TOOTH AND CLAW</A></FONT>
<FONT SIZE=1>EPISODE NUMBER - 2802</FONT>
<IMG SRC="/images/clear.gif" WIDTH=1 HEIGHT=10 ALT="">
After a group of monks seize control of a Scottish estate, the Doctor and Rose find themselves trapped inside with Queen Victoria herself, while a real-life werewolf stalks them.

<FONT SIZE=1><B><A HREF="http://www.scifistream.com/doctor-who/s2/">VISIT THE EPISODE GUIDE >></A></B></FONT></FONT></DIV></TD></TR></TABLE></DIV>

Egeria
April 22nd, 2006, 01:05 PM
Awesome episode, I'm still quite stunned by how good that was. It's so nice to see the kids scared stiff whilst watching DW....just the way it should be. :D

The Signal
April 22nd, 2006, 01:06 PM
Right, I thought this was far better than last week. They built up the tension perfectly over the whoel episode, and though the wolf (a stunning bit of CGI) was only in it for the final 15 minutes it felt a lot longer. The Doctor showed us he was till the same curious man as always, calling the wolf "beautiful".
Billie played Rose much better this week, and David was as good as ever. The Queen was convincing, as was the owner of Torchwood estate.
I felt the highlight was after the wolf, the scene where the Queen was talking about Torchwood, I got the shivers:D

My only grumble with it was the quick fix and kung fu monks, I hope that isnt going to be a continuing theme(quick fix, not kung fu monks :D).

Favourite quote:

"Thats Beautiful!" simply because it summed the Doctor up perfectly, the danger was there but the Doctor is still admiring the source, excellent!

Score: 9.5/10

Naonak
April 22nd, 2006, 01:07 PM
Brilliant episode. Best David Tennant episode so far, and probably one of the best since Doctor Who came back.
Nice setting up of Torchwood, too.

Flyboy
April 22nd, 2006, 01:09 PM
Absolutely amazing. I loved it immensely, with a better werewolf than The Prisoner of Azkaban movie, it was awesome. I loved the plot, the acting and everything.

Torchwood! WOO Rock on!

in circles
April 22nd, 2006, 01:10 PM
It was great. The Balamory reference and the bet the Doctor and Rose had going were hilarious. Nice to see the doc bouncing around to Ian Dury too. The werewolf looked bloody fantastic. Kung Fu monks seemed a bit out of place but they looked pretty cool.

Metarock Sam
April 22nd, 2006, 01:11 PM
This episode was absoloutley brilliant. The Werewolf was fantastic and the Torchwood references were brilliant too. Looks like Torchwood will be out to get the Doctor....

Naonak
April 22nd, 2006, 01:14 PM
Kung Fu monks seemed a bit out of place but they looked pretty cool.

Yeah, what the hell was that all about???

Hulabaloo
April 22nd, 2006, 01:17 PM
I loved this ep! Everything has already been said about it that i would say.

The werewolf was miles better than POA.

Loved the doctor in this ep, it was very good!

Hywel
April 22nd, 2006, 01:32 PM
I loved that episode! It felt like perfect Doctor Who. Queen Victoria was brilliant! The special effects were amazing - better than anything from S1!

My only complaint would be that the final scene seemed a bit overdone - the whole setting up of Torchwood could have been a bit subtler. But I understand the need to make sure that casual viewers realise what's going on.

Missster.Freeman
April 22nd, 2006, 01:35 PM
That was much better than last week. There's still a lot crammed into a 45 min episode though, maybe too much. What a revelation. We now know who started Torchwood, and what it stands for.

I couldn't stop laughing at the "Kung Pow" scene in the courtyard. It was both cool and (I would hope) intentionally funny. :D Ian Dury and the Blockheads' "Hit Me With Your Rhythm Stick" brought back a lot of memories. "It's nice to be a lunatic." ;)



It's so nice to see the kids scared stiff whilst watching DW....just the way it should be.
hehe :P You just know Dr Who is working when it scares the bejeezuz out of the weans (kids). I know I used to end up watching from behind the couch when I was a kid. :D

Billz
April 22nd, 2006, 01:49 PM
It really was a fantastic episode! Im glad im taping the whole series. The torchwood references were a bit overdone for only the second episode but its good to see things like that. Rose's 'the royal family are werewolves!' just cracked me up.

Hulabaloo
April 22nd, 2006, 01:54 PM
The end scene when they were going into the TARDIS had me doubled up in laughter! Of course my little brother just looked at me weirdly. hehe!





hehe :P You just know Dr Who is working when it scares the bejeezuz out of the weans (kids). I know I used to end up watching from behind the couch when I was a kid. :D

Hehe, i was helping out at Beavers last week (boys aged from 5-8) and i asked them who watched Doctor Who and over half of them said they did! I cant wait to see how scared they were today tho.

Egeria
April 22nd, 2006, 02:06 PM
It really was a fantastic episode! Im glad im taping the whole series. The torchwood references were a bit overdone for only the second episode but its good to see things like that. Rose's 'the royal family are werewolves!' just cracked me up.

I suppose my only criticism would be the Torchwood speech at the end. Like you, I found it to be a touch overdone. :)

pbellosom
April 22nd, 2006, 02:09 PM
That was an amazing episode, one of the best I've seen. I especially liked the whole torchwood thing at the end.


Ian Dury and the Blockheads' "Hit Me With Your Rhythm Stick" brought back a lot of memories. "It's nice to be a lunatic." ;)


I will never be able to hear that song again without thinking of the Doctor, it's like the song was made for him.

Are they actually allowed to say the royal family are werewolves on national television? Surely they can be "done" (not sure of the correct term there) for defamation of character.

Egeria
April 22nd, 2006, 02:14 PM
Are they actually allowed to say the royal family are werewolves on national television? Surely they can be "done" (not sure of the correct term there) for defamation of character.

I giggled at the 'royals are werewolves' quote, especially since Prince Andrew revealed this week that HRH has watched DW.... :D

Maf.e.u
April 22nd, 2006, 02:56 PM
Wow.. it was excellent :)!

ShadowMaat
April 22nd, 2006, 04:48 PM
Will chime in with the feeling that the Kung Fu monkeyboys were a bit WTF?! but I didn't find the Torchwood bit at the end to be TOO heavy-handed. Although I wonder now if Torchwood is going to be portrayed as some kind of "enemy" to the Doctor. The Queen certainly seemed to think the Doctor should take care.

I wonder how they'll work Torchwood (and Jack) into things. I should go read up on the Torchwood rumors...

Madeleine
April 22nd, 2006, 10:19 PM
Much better than last week's, this one. Except for the red pyjama kung fu (eh? in c19 Scotland? have red pyjamas and kung fu got anything to do with werewolves?) it was all splendid. I liked the solution, it made sense - at least as far as these things do :p

The Torchwood thing was good too. I'd assumed that they were to be benign, until the Christmas ep made me wonder. Then I wondered if they might be just research bods, and the PM misappropriated their work. Now I can see that they have an Agenda and where the Agenda came from, it makes me really keen to see how it pans out.

"They like hunting, they love bloodsports" - ROFL!

"... from Balamory" ROFLMHO!

Othere
April 23rd, 2006, 12:10 AM
Awesome episode, I'm still quite stunned by how good that was. It's so nice to see the kids scared stiff whilst watching DW....just the way it should be. :D

Did enjoy it, but is it me, or does some parts of the new series appear to be dumbing down? ie. trying to spell out certain things for the viewer - takign the fun out of trying to guess what the relationship (like torchwood for example) might be.
I mean the whole torchwood explanation - if they had left it with the sign on the house that would have been really nice and subtle, but I felt the need to explain it with the institute seemed a little much.

Dont get me wrong, I still enjoy it and can't wait for Saturday night, but for me it just seems to be lacking something - something very small and I dont know what it is yet. Will have to wait til the next one to see I guess.*sigh*

Othere
April 23rd, 2006, 12:14 AM
Will chime in with the feeling that the Kung Fu monkeyboys were a bit WTF?! but I didn't find the Torchwood bit at the end to be TOO heavy-handed. Although I wonder now if Torchwood is going to be portrayed as some kind of "enemy" to the Doctor. The Queen certainly seemed to think the Doctor should take care.

I wonder how they'll work Torchwood (and Jack) into things. I should go read up on the Torchwood rumors...

I should really read all of these before posting :)
Kung fu guys -were a bit sucky really.
Torchwood - could have been much more subtle. I feel like i am being treated a some stupid member of the audience who can't remember last week's episode, let alone the christmas special. I think that could have been handled a little better, more subtle - ie with the sign on the door - would have been enough to make people think about it.
I am enjoying it, last weeks was a bit weak. This was much better, but still lacking something. Hope next weeks is on the nail :)
My only fear for this series is that with all the siccess of the first series, it had a lot to live up to and as a result it would either be fantastic or disappointing. So far it is neither fab or disappointing and I am pleased to say (for me) it seems to be headig inthe fab direction...though it is taking its time! ;)

Atlantean Epona
April 23rd, 2006, 04:06 AM
'Tooth and Claw' was fabulous! :D

It had some very amusing lines, e.g. "Am I being rude again?", and the Doctor's glee at seeing a werewolf was great. I liked the tension of the scene in the library with the werewolf circling. There were some proper spooky bits in this episode - there was something about the way the Host pressed his face up to his cage to bask in the moonlight and the "you burnt like the sun, but all I require is the moon" bit.
The CGI werewolf looked cool and all the supporting/guest actors were good.

My only quibble is with the monks. Kung fu monks dressed in bright red in nineteenth century Scotland, hmmmm...it didn't work for me - they looked very out of place. Ok, so Doctor Who is meant to be a bit weird, but they weren't surreal, they just didn't fit into this episode. Shame really, since they were quite cool.

Ooh Torchwood...a threat to the Doctor...I wonder what's going to happen with that...

Lastly, the shallow bit: the hot geeky glasses had an outing again! Yay! I hope this remains a weekly thing! :D :o

Flyboy
April 23rd, 2006, 04:18 AM
Did enjoy it, but is it me, or does some parts of the new series appear to be dumbing down? ie. trying to spell out certain things for the viewer - takign the fun out of trying to guess what the relationship (like torchwood for example) might be.
I mean the whole torchwood explanation - if they had left it with the sign on the house that would have been really nice and subtle, but I felt the need to explain it with the institute seemed a little much.

Dont get me wrong, I still enjoy it and can't wait for Saturday night, but for me it just seems to be lacking something - something very small and I dont know what it is yet. Will have to wait til the next one to see I guess.*sigh*
I liked that it was a proper explanation. I dont want Torchwood to be handle din the same way as Bad Wolf. if torchwood gets everywhere it will be silly as theres no reason for it to. its an entirely different concept.

Willow'sCat
April 23rd, 2006, 04:30 AM
I liked this episode, really liked the look and feel of it. It was so lush. The WW was a little too CGI for my tastes but then on a budget it must be hard to do convincing creatures. No I didn't think the Monks really worked either. I do see why some kiddies may have been scared by this episode it was loud and even I jumped. :P

I cannot stand all that Queen and Country rubbish (republic already!) so I liked them taking the p!$$ out of the Royals. :p Yes something seriously wrong with that family. :cool: The amused stuff wore thin, but I forgive.
Also I think Queen Vicky was a little too laboured, sorry she may have been more accurate the way she was portrayed but she didn't really fit into the episode because of that IMO she was too sombre I think for Dr Who.

I loved the "am I being rude again?" he is that kind of Doctor too. :D Glasses, love the glasses and the accent.

I didn't mind the ending this is Dr Who after all; so if you want a long lengthy "scientific" explanation or believable ending go elsewhere please. :rolleyes: :cool:

Othere
April 23rd, 2006, 06:38 AM
I liked that it was a proper explanation. I dont want Torchwood to be handle din the same way as Bad Wolf. if torchwood gets everywhere it will be silly as theres no reason for it to. its an entirely different concept.

I just felt that it could have been more subtle. Leaving it as the house name would have been pretty cool. It would have made people think a bit, rather than giving it to them on a platter - just my opinion.

ShadowMaat
April 23rd, 2006, 07:16 AM
Yeah, the Torchwood stuff could have been more subtle, but like a woman dying of thirst in the middle of Death Valley, I'm happy to get any snippets I can about all things Torchwood. :D

Nel
April 23rd, 2006, 07:49 AM
I really enjoyed this episode. I thought the interaction between the Doctor and Rose was brilliant - their bet; the "I'm being rude again" bits and the general joy they both had in their adventure.

The Torchwood reference was slightly laboured, but it set things up in an interesting fashion. And I just loved the ending.

Flyboy
April 23rd, 2006, 11:05 AM
Yeah, the Torchwood stuff could have been more subtle, but like a woman dying of thirst in the middle of Death Valley, I'm happy to get any snippets I can about all things Torchwood. :D
It wasnt MEANT to be subtle though. Its not supposed to be a little badwolf esque reference, the name would have said nothing as ti the origins of the Insitute, it was a required plot device for the Queen to explain how the legacy of the Torchwood Estates owners would continue in the form of an insitute based on their work.

in circles
April 23rd, 2006, 11:20 AM
I think all the Torchwood speach was missing was Queen Vic saying "Catch it in the autumn on BBC3"

Egeria
April 23rd, 2006, 11:30 AM
I think all the Torchwood speach was missing was Queen Vic saying "Catch it in the autumn on BBC3"

That's what it felt like to me as well. :)

mentalmichael
April 23rd, 2006, 12:16 PM
Great ep as usual, with reservations.
1. Not only were the orange monk guys rather out of place in scotland, but the attack scene at the start was just badly done.
2. The Torchwood thing was a bit OTT, but I still want to see the show!
3. I thought the actress who played the Queen was good, but she was so clearly imitating Judy Dench....just wish they could've got her to do it because that would've been fantastic!

Matt G
April 23rd, 2006, 02:51 PM
Had a big dinner last night and didn't get this taped - just caught it on Beeb 3 this evening.

Hmmm...

1. Don't do the werewolf scene that much but this was decent on that front.

2. "Ah...1879 not 1979".

3. Tennant-Doctor is coming accross as a 'very' smart Doctor.

4. The biggest question about Torchwood becomes 'how much are they heros and how much anti-heros? RTD has also created a plothole - how could previous incanations of the Doctor have avoided Torchwood if it was set up by Queen Victoria - he's visted 20th century Earth enough times?

Overall v.cool. Whacks the last time the Doctor did horror in Victoriana(The Unquiet Dead) and also toasts New Earth.

Easter Lily
April 23rd, 2006, 03:14 PM
Wow... that was intense... riveting stuff. Much better than New Earth... hung together a lot better.
I'm a great sucker for Victoriana and Dr Who has a great tradition of Victorian stories... Talons of Weng Chi'ang, Ghostlight, The Unquiet Dead... and this one was no different. There must something about Victorian Britian that lends itself to this kind of atmospheric, almost eerie stories.

Someone in the production team must be in love with The Matrix... otherwise why the anachronistic, bullet time, pole wielding monks. I love my martial arts but this seems rather odd even for Dr Who. A couple of possible explanations for this odd inclusion:
a) Is there an underlying suggestion that the wolf motif is of an eastern origin or has ties with eastern myths?
b) Have the monks been superpowered by the wolf entity... and we'll see some follow up of this later?

The Torchwood references have been fun... just the thing for the mystery monger. I really didn't mind being given the full treatment... it belongs to the story and I'm sure that there's a lot more that can be done with it on a future occasion.
Hmmm... I thought we were done with Bad Wolf but it doesn't seem to be the case. Why not? Keep the mystery going... I'm all for it.

Can't wait for next week's episode... Woot... Sarah Jane... K9...

ShadowMaat
April 23rd, 2006, 03:42 PM
I still hope we get to see some place OTHER than (New) Earth and the Satellite of Love. :P

I also hope the echoes from last season will wear off soon (from the far future to the Victorian times to "present" day).

And wooo! K9!! I can't wait! :D

Easter Lily
April 23rd, 2006, 04:26 PM
I still hope we get to see some place OTHER than (New) Earth and the Satellite of Love. :P

I also hope the echoes from last season will wear off soon (from the far future to the Victorian times to "present" day).

And wooo! K9!! I can't wait! :D
I've always thought that Dr Who earth episodes are much better done than non-earth ones.

But who knows... Beebs seem to have more money to throw around these days... we may get alien planets that actually look interesting.

Darkseid
April 23rd, 2006, 06:50 PM
Just caught the episode. I must say I didn't mind the whole Matrix kung-fu guys. I thought it set the mood quite nicely. Tennent is proceeding just perfectly (how old is this guy? He looks to be 25!!) I must admit, those glasses are growing on me.

Also nice to see he changed his shirt from last week. One of my pet peeves have always been Doctors who never change their clothes (Davison, C. Baker). WOuldn't you think that they would start to smell after a while?)

The Wolf was fun. The Torchwood stuff made me feel like I was getting beaten over the head with it. I think it should be a little subtle, like the 10:13 in X-Files. Maybe I am just sensitive sbout it. Hoping it's a good show (oh, like I won't watch it! I'd watch K-9 and company if it was made into a series!)

All and all a good episode. Whoever brought up the paradoz of Torchwood/previous Doctors is right. I don't see how the Pertwee Doc, who spent years standad on Earth, didn't run into Torchwood while working for UNIT.

Happy_Gate
April 23rd, 2006, 07:10 PM
All and all a good episode. Whoever brought up the paradoz of Torchwood/previous Doctors is right. I don't see how the Pertwee Doc, who spent years standad on Earth, didn't run into Torchwood while working for UNIT.
Well, maybe leaving Cpt. Jack on the GameStation somehow affected the timeline. Maybe that's what the spinoff will show.
Or perhaps the after-effects from the timewar shifted history somewhat.

Anyways, I quite enjoyed this episode. The chemistry between Rose and the Doctor is reall good. Especially liked the whole "I am not amused" bet bit. :D
Also agreed with everyone who didn't appreciate having torchwood so obviously pointed out. But I guess it was the only way RTD could get in the "If this doctor should return, he should beware because Torchwood will be waiting" warning into the story.

Darkseid
April 23rd, 2006, 10:05 PM
Well, maybe leaving Cpt. Jack on the GameStation somehow affected the timeline. Maybe that's what the spinoff will show.
Or perhaps the after-effects from the timewar shifted history somewhat.


Good call, I didn't think about that......

guess we'll have to wait and see.....

Jonzey
April 24th, 2006, 02:40 AM
All and all a good episode. Whoever brought up the paradoz of Torchwood/previous Doctors is right. I don't see how the Pertwee Doc, who spent years standad on Earth, didn't run into Torchwood while working for UNIT.
Well I don't see how they would have been able to get to him before now- they don't know he can change his appearance. I'd say it's just Tennant's doctor who will have problems with them (unless they find out what he can do).

Reefgirl
April 24th, 2006, 05:37 AM
I've finally got to watch it after 2 abortive attempts (Dodgy VCR and a TV with no sound)

WHY!!! is the biggest question I have about the Monks, and why didn't Rose and the Doctor say anything about Grasshopper (Showing my age now)

Apart from that, brilliant, the best one yet, really creepy, never mind the daughter getting behind the sofa, I almost beat her too it, the CGI was used really well and not over done. Well Torchwood isn't going to be this years Bad Wolf is it, not the way it marched through the ep with hobnailed boots on. And since when were Werewolves allergic, afraid of whatever of Mistletoe.

The only things I thought was weird was, why did Victoria hold a crucifix, it's a Werewolf not a Vampire, and why was there no silver in a Noble's house?

TheWarrior
April 24th, 2006, 07:14 AM
Last week's werewolf wonder, Tooth and Claw, peaked at an amazing 9.3 million viewers.

yaaayoubetcha
April 24th, 2006, 09:10 AM
I'll echo the sentiment....kung fu monks?

I had Ian Drury and Carl Douglas clashing in my head the whole ep!

I liked the Queen's Torchwood speech. As a big ol exposatory monologue, I thought it was great and a great nailing down of the origin/hint at agenda of the Institute.

Not quite sinister, but certainly a great way to show the roots of the opposition to the Doctor. Wonder if the new show is going make an attempt to explain away how they did nothing in the previous 30 yrs of the Doctor's involvement with Earth.

I know...i know...Torchwood didn't exist in the 60s/70/80s because DT didn't get to see the Queen until the 06s.

Jonzey
April 24th, 2006, 11:05 AM
And since when were Werewolves allergic, afraid of whatever of Mistletoe.

Didn't he say the monks trained it to believe it was allergic, so they could control it better?


The only things I thought was weird was, why did Victoria hold a crucifix, it's a Werewolf not a Vampire, and why was there no silver in a Noble's house?
I doubt queen Vic knew of the best way to stop a werewolf, but was rather holding the crucifix for spiritual support.

Reefgirl
April 24th, 2006, 12:07 PM
Didn't he say the monks trained it to believe it was allergic, so they could control it better?

I doubt queen Vic knew of the best way to stop a werewolf, but was rather holding the crucifix for spiritual support.
True I suppose

Nuallain
April 27th, 2006, 06:26 AM
I think all the Torchwood speach was missing was Queen Vic saying "Catch it in the autumn on BBC3"

But it's not really about the spin off, but this series of DW. After all, Torchwood are this season's big bads.

Flyboy
April 29th, 2006, 03:41 AM
But badwolf being everywhere made sense. Torchwood is NOT a mystical mysterious name. It was a name that came about BECAUSE of Torchwood house. This is why that speech made sense. It CANNOT apear every where as just a passing word. It would be silly and tacky. Oh look Torchwood this Torchwood that. Explain to me WHY Torchwood would apear everywhere when its a secret institute named after a Victorian manor house? The idea of Torchwood High School is ridicilous. The only way Torchwood should apear at all is in the form of secret government operations. Now, in the TARDISODE, Mickey was looking at secret government files. Now, if the name Torchwood apeared in those, that would be fine. Afterall, it would make sense. But if they notice the name on the side of buildings and stuff just subtly like with Bad Wolf... Why?

Torchwood this year is an OBVIOUS plot device that will be explored further, not a secret "slip it in wherever possible" thing.

Stricken
April 29th, 2006, 03:47 AM
Minor Spoilers



In the commentary for Tooth And Claw (Right at the end) they let slip that Torchwood is this years "Bad Wolf" and that it would all come to head in episode 12 & 13.

So expect plenty mor references ;)

Jonzey
April 29th, 2006, 03:51 AM
But badwolf being everywhere made sense. Torchwood is NOT a mystical mysterious name. It was a name that came about BECAUSE of Torchwood house. This is why that speech made sense. It CANNOT apear every where as just a passing word. It would be silly and tacky. Oh look Torchwood this Torchwood that. Explain to me WHY Torchwood would apear everywhere when its a secret institute named after a Victorian manor house? The idea of Torchwood High School is ridicilous. The only way Torchwood should apear at all is in the form of secret government operations. Now, in the TARDISODE, Mickey was looking at secret government files. Now, if the name Torchwood apeared in those, that would be fine. Afterall, it would make sense. But if they notice the name on the side of buildings and stuff just subtly like with Bad Wolf... Why?

Torchwood this year is an OBVIOUS plot device that will be explored further, not a secret "slip it in wherever possible" thing.
Yeah, I know what you mean. If Torchwood is just randomly scribbled everywhere it would be pretty dumb. But if, like in the Christmas Invasion (and in Bad Wolf last year), they occasionally mention Torchwood or find files marked Torchwood or come across Torchwood agents or whatever it would be much better (and more interesting than repeating the same type of thing as last time).

BC - 303
April 29th, 2006, 06:34 AM
bad wolf isnt finished yet
"there is something of the wolf about you"
Fact
Torchwood is an annagram of Doctor Who, and the boxes containing Doctor who's season 1/27 first episode tapes was labeled Torchwood to stop them from getting stollen.
I like the 10th doctor

Flyboy
April 29th, 2006, 07:32 AM
SGC, Just because Torchwood is "this years bad wolf" doesnt mean it will be handled in the same way with subtle references to it in each episode. A more sophisticated aproach by directly integrating into into the plot is more likely, and in my mind preferable.

As jonzey said, tangible apearances of Torchwood are much better. We already KNOW what Torchwood is, and based on that, there is no need for such mystery. A constant presence and reoccurence is good, but ONLY when the apearance is in context and makes sense.

Example:

Good - The Doctor is for some reason in the Mi6 headquarters. The doctor finds a secret vault filled with filing cabinets, he comes to one labelled "Torchwood" he is about to open it, but the alarm sounds and soldiers begun storming the room.

Bad - The doctor makes a stop off at a public toilets. Written in felt pen behind the door is the word "Torchwood".

Can we see the difference? The latter might have worked for Bad Wolf, because that was its context. But this is a governemnt "conspiracy" that must be handled in the fashion that might be found in "The X Files".

The original meaning of Torchwood, merely an anagram for Doctor Who and being the lebels for the tapes at the BBC is now irrelevant as it has no relation to the plot.

Bad Wolf is finished. At least in the form it apeared last season. Bad Wolf will not apear in the same way at all. There may however be some significant plot developed regarding it. But that does not mean that it is in continuing.

silverdamascus
April 29th, 2006, 10:20 AM
bad wolf isnt finished yet
"there is something of the wolf about you"


There was a lot about this that was great but it was that moment that took me off balance.
"So many questions - (jumps forwards, clanging his chains). Look, inside you're eyes, you've seen it too."
"Seen what?"
"The wolf. There is something of the wolf about you."
"...I don't know what you mean."
"(Growls) You burnt like the sun but all I require is the moon."

References to Torchwood I was expecting but building on the Bad Wolf as well, that is very exciting. How on earth does a Werewolf know about what happened to Rose, that she looked into the heart of the Tardis and "burnt like the sun" and how does he associate it with the wolf?

There is something else going on here.

IMForeman
April 29th, 2006, 11:05 AM
But badwolf being everywhere made sense. Torchwood is NOT a mystical mysterious name. It was a name that came about BECAUSE of Torchwood house. This is why that speech made sense. It CANNOT apear every where as just a passing word. It would be silly and tacky. Oh look Torchwood this Torchwood that. Explain to me WHY Torchwood would apear everywhere when its a secret institute named after a Victorian manor house? The idea of Torchwood High School is ridicilous. The only way Torchwood should apear at all is in the form of secret government operations. Now, in the TARDISODE, Mickey was looking at secret government files. Now, if the name Torchwood apeared in those, that would be fine. Afterall, it would make sense. But if they notice the name on the side of buildings and stuff just subtly like with Bad Wolf... Why?

Torchwood this year is an OBVIOUS plot device that will be explored further, not a secret "slip it in wherever possible" thing.

For what it's worth, the High School in tonight's episode (starting any minute now) is Deffry's Vale High School.

Madeleine
April 29th, 2006, 04:41 PM
I don't know if the Bad Wolf reference is a sign that Bad Wolf isn't finished. It might just be a one-off reference, no more significant than if they mention the Slitheen again if it were relevant. I think it was just a neat bit of dialogue they gave werewolfman because it was apposite.

I think it means nothing. I hope it means something and that there's more Bad Wolf stuff to come cos that would be very cool, but I just have a feeling that PotW was it.

Major Clanger
April 30th, 2006, 11:18 AM
References to Torchwood I was expecting but building on the Bad Wolf as well, that is very exciting. How on earth does a Werewolf know about what happened to Rose, that she looked into the heart of the Tardis and "burnt like the sun" and how does he associate it with the wolf?

There is something else going on here.

Well, don't forget it's not actually a warewoolf, but a space-warewolf.

The Signal
April 30th, 2006, 11:42 AM
Well, don't forget it's not actually a warewoolf, but a space-warewolf.
Technically its a lupine wavelength haemovariform :D

Major Clanger
May 1st, 2006, 07:58 AM
which would be space-warewolf in clanger language
:P

NowIWillDestroyAbydos
May 3rd, 2006, 07:29 PM
This was a crappy episode, in my opinion. I give it a *1/2.

silverdamascus
May 4th, 2006, 03:38 PM
Well, don't forget it's not actually a warewoolf, but a space-warewolf.

True, but unless I missed something "Bad Wolf" was only ever explained as being called "Bad Wolf" because that was the name of the corporation that ran the platform.

I can accept the space-werewolf (or lupine wavelength haemovariform to keep PTah happy!) would be able to sense that she had looked into the heart of the Tardis and saw something, (I've no idea what or how he'd have seen it too), but why would he know it had anything to do with the "Bad Wolf" corporation unless there was another connecting factor we don't know about?

Maybe is just a meaningless wee rant, I've probably been watching Joss Whedon programmes for too long, looking for foreshadowing that's not there!

Madeleine
May 4th, 2006, 10:27 PM
True, but unless I missed something "Bad Wolf" was only ever explained as being called "Bad Wolf" because that was the name of the corporation that ran the platform.

WHO's afraid of the...

Billz
May 19th, 2006, 03:23 AM
Did anyone understand what The Doctor was shouting when he was hitting the Tardis controls with hes hammer? The sound on my TV isnt very good so I didnt quite hear it right.

Wraith Scientist
May 19th, 2006, 11:46 AM
Did anyone understand what The Doctor was shouting when he was hitting the Tardis controls with hes hammer? The sound on my TV isnt very good so I didnt quite hear it right.

The transcript (http://who-transcripts.atspace.com/2006%20Transcripts/02_toothandclaw.htm)

- I don't know if that helps?

Billz
May 19th, 2006, 01:44 PM
The transcript (http://who-transcripts.atspace.com/2006%20Transcripts/02_toothandclaw.htm)

- I don't know if that helps?

Not really. It just says he shouts but not WHAT he shouts.

IMForeman
May 19th, 2006, 02:37 PM
Did anyone understand what The Doctor was shouting when he was hitting the Tardis controls with hes hammer? The sound on my TV isnt very good so I didnt quite hear it right.

He didnt really shout anything in particular. It's just sort of "AHHHHHH-AYYYYYY!" The only actual words at that point are the lyrics to "Hit Me With My Rhythym Stick."

Matt G
May 19th, 2006, 02:44 PM
Probably "hit me with your rythm stick. Hit me*doosh* hit me*doosh*

GhostPoet
July 12th, 2006, 12:26 PM
Am I the only one who didn't have any problem with the monks? It made perfect sense...these guys pretty much worshiped the being that took over that guys body. They used to be monks...but fell into worshipping this alien and are its guardians during the times it's most vulnerable. (daylight, etc..)

Darkseid
July 12th, 2006, 12:44 PM
Am I the only one who didn't have any problem with the monks? It made perfect sense...these guys pretty much worshiped the being that took over that guys body. They used to be monks...but fell into worshipping this alien and are its guardians during the times it's most vulnerable. (daylight, etc..)


I liked the Monks myself. I didn't see anything wrong with them. Maybe they got a little Hollywood at times, but I think that was mostly to appeal to mainstream Americans.

Other then that, I really liked them.

Albion
August 12th, 2006, 07:21 AM
I'm afraid this one fell a bit flat for me. The first episode I haven't really enjoyed so far. (I'm a new convert, seen S1 and now up to T&C in S2). The whole werewolf thing was boring - but that's a very personal dislike and not really something I can get at the show for. I just never have found Sherlock Holmes interesting and this was just a rerun of Hound of the Baskervilles, when all was said and done. Also, I hate all this running around in the dark of night so you can't see what's going on business. So it wasn't going to...er...amuse me. ;)

I didn't find the constant attempts by Rose to get Victoria to say she wasn't amused funny - in fact I was right with the Queen when she snapped about them finding the situation amusing. Given all that was going on, good men dying etc, I found Rose's attempt to get this out of the Queen inappropriate and a little purile. In fact, generally speaking, I found the sacrifices made by those who fought the wolf and died to be dealt with pretty lightly by the episode and I'd have liked to have seen more poignancy there. Instead, it was just skimmed over.

And even though I despise the Royals, I didn't find the conversation at the end amusing either. I thought it could have been written far sharper and with much more wit.

Things I did like:

Queen Victoria. It was lovely to see Pauline Collins back on screen (some may remember her as the incorrigible maidservant Sarah in Upstairs, Downstairs, among other things). I think the poster who said she was trying to channel Judy Dench just isn't aware that the two have very similar on screen personalities, accents, ways of speaking. I don't think PC was channelling JD, that's just her natural way of speaking, mannerisms etc. Both actresses come very much from the same school of acting.

I loved the fact that she was portrayed as having a sharply witty tongue and not as dour as historical cliche often portrays her.

And I thought the CGI wolf was very well done. Certainly looked the part.

In the end though, the plot was never going to be interesting to me and that's just how it is. Not something the show can be blamed for, just a matter of personal taste.

So...on to School Reunion. Hoping for better, although - even though I really enjoy seeing Mickey and Jackie - I'm getting a little tired of almost every second episode being set back on Earth. I need more alien planets, guys! Still, I have the rest of S2 to watch yet. Here's hoping! ;)

Oh and for those who thought the kung fu monks in red pyjamas were out of place - I got the impression that was precisely the intention by TPTB. That they wanted to mark them as being out of the norm, given them an almost mystical element for the locals, servants etc. Sadly, I'm also no fan of kung fu monks, so I didn't find them remotely interesting. Another reason for the episode falling flat. And also...puhlease can we stop with the Matrix effects now? I swear if I see another show doing that I'll scream. It is sooooooooo over. Cliche Central by this point. It's embarrassing they're still aping that movie in their fight scenes.




Albion :)

Nolamom
October 6th, 2006, 06:00 PM
I didn't find the constant attempts by Rose to get Victoria to say she wasn't amused funny - in fact I was right with the Queen when she snapped about them finding the situation amusing.
I've got to agree with you on this one. It would appear that Rose has seen a few too many movies.

I did like the inception of Torchwood.

creed462
October 6th, 2006, 08:37 PM
I liked the show, but banishing the Doctor after he saved your life not right

MasySyma
October 6th, 2006, 09:05 PM
I'm in the minority tonight. I love Dr. Who, but that episode was dreadful.

Pros:

I enjoyed DT as the Doctor again, and his mannerism helped make the time go by. Too bad, he was the only piece of the show worth watching.

Cons:

Rose. Rose. and uh, Rose. She was annoying, childish, and incredibly stupid tonight. Her behavior was inappropriate, and she kept saying stupid things like "werewolves cool!" when people were dying. Are we sure that Cassandra still isn't in possession of the body?

The Kung Fu Monks. They were out of place. I immediately thought of Galaxy Quest's "Does the rolling help?" when I saw them.

The Victorian Theme isn't my favorite. I didn't like it last season, and I don't like it this year either. It was careless to return to the time so soon again when the entire universe awaits.

The "evil" alien. The character had no reason to exist besides giving the Doctor an excuse to be there. How did he get to earth? Why did he die so quietly? Perhaps the best parts of the episode are on the cutting room floor because I did not see them tonight.

The Torchwood Ending. I liked when Victoria told the Doctor off, but the end was extremely heavy handed. All she had to say was "I may have a use for this place," and we would have gotten it.

Overall, this episode tanked. I hope they pick up, but I'm confident that they will. 3/10

SGalisa
October 6th, 2006, 09:47 PM
I liked the show, but banishing the Doctor after he saved your life not rightyes, that did seem a bit ODD, and especially right after the queen knighted them both (the Doctor and Rose!). But the Doctor seemed to be a good sport about it, regardless... like water off a duck's back - being the Queen's protector one moment and exiled from Torchwood in the next.

Because of the Kung Fu movements in the first few minutes did have me wondering if it was *really* DOCTOR WHO that we were watching. Loved the S-L-O-W..M-O action with the flying Kung Fu air leaps. That was *cool!*

Back to Queen Victoria... she seemed a bit possessed right after she realized she had the splinter in her. I say that because before that happened, she swore she'd rather die than turn into a werewolf. And when her whole personality suddenly turned against the Doctor and Rose right after knighting them both, it seemed the WOLF creature's DNA was beginning to work on her...

Made me wonder if Harriet in the "Christmas Invasion" episode also had a bit of the WOLF in her, too, when she suddenly turned secretive against the Doctor and gave Torchwood the order to
blow up the alien spacecraft instead of letting it simply leave the solar system to stay away from the earth.


Originally posted by MasySyma:
I'm in the minority tonight. I love Dr. Who, but that episode was dreadful.There's always a few duds along the way, and I sort of expected most reactions to be this (I warned my husband he might not like the storyline, before he started watching it). And since it came before BSG, with some folks out there never seeing DW before, this was one of those dud eps to smack it against BSG...

Of course Sci-Fi put BSG back-to-back with DW cushioning it like book-ends!!
Having bad reception (and only on the Sci-Fi channel) or someone's jamming the 2nd viewing of BSG. It'd better get fixed, because that's not going to keep people willing to stay up to watch the 2nd viewing of DOCTOR WHO. Yep, it must be an alterior motive in requesting that particular problem to get resolved... :p

SGalisa
October 7th, 2006, 11:33 AM
Originally posted by MasySyma:
I'm in the minority tonight. I love Dr. Who, but that episode was dreadful.Actually, I forgot to mention that I thought even tho the subject matter might not appeal to everyone viewing, I thought it was a fairly well done episode, considering the content matter...

The music was superior quality - as has most of the newer DrWHO eps, and the special effects were amazing (love the ghost effects at the end with the light beam). I'll always enjoy those beloved "English" accents. :D

But what I didn't understand was the comedy bit about Rose's constant "It's NOT amusing!!" phrase. I know she was attempting to gode Queen Victoria into reacting to it, but I didn't know the why's behind its intended meanings.

And tho I read on another DW website forum that England's current Queen may actually enjoy watching DOCTOR WHO, the comments about Princess Anne, etc., being part werewolf did seem a bit aloof and strange for its actual airing thereof; and wouldn't TPTB need permission to make such a comment - with the Queen Elizabeth's approval / consent, for it to officially not be disrespectful? I thought if that were the situation, then there must be an inside royal joke somewhere in there.

One more...
As for the outcasting / warning for the Doctor never to return to Torchwood (which is an actual anogram or something like that for "Doctor Who"), and that the QUEEN realizes that Britain now has MANY enemies potentially beyond on all sides of its boundaries, was there more behind that comment than meets the ears...?? {think current events... sometimes these things have tendencies to overlap...} :eek:

And if not that, then the Doctor's existence as a TV - "DW" series certainly has enemies beyond the shores of England... so even if that was implied as a TV competition joke, would that seem to take on a dual statement, as well? {and if yes, try to keep in memory when this episode originally was created and aired on the BBC.} It certainly had me wondering...

full.infinity
October 7th, 2006, 11:49 AM
My only grumble with it was the quick fix and kung fu monks, I hope that isnt going to be a continuing theme(quick fix, not kung fu monks :D).
Considering "The Parting of the Ways", quick-fix seems like it'll happen quite a bit.

Thermonuclearboy
October 7th, 2006, 07:26 PM
Funny...I thought ALL monks knew kung-fu. Oh well.

And would anyone mind explaining the Princess Anne joke to this stupid American? I mean, is she ugly? Even by British Royal Family standards?

ShadowMaat
October 7th, 2006, 08:10 PM
I agree that Rose was particularly annoying in this ep. I've grown increasingly less fond of her and her behavior in this ep really struck a nerve. The "not amused" thing was funny once or twice, but by the fifth, sixth and seventh time I wanted the Queen to pull out her pistol and shoot her.

MasySyma
October 7th, 2006, 09:26 PM
I agree that Rose was particularly annoying in this ep. I've grown increasingly less fond of her and her behavior in this ep really struck a nerve. The "not amused" thing was funny once or twice, but by the fifth, sixth and seventh time I wanted the Queen to pull out her pistol and shoot her.

I think the sonic screwdriver should be able to produce Duct Tape when needed. :)

HirogenGater
October 12th, 2006, 05:22 PM
What an awesome episode! This is one of my favorite Doctor Who's now, next to the episode with Charles Dickens. :)

Angela V
October 18th, 2006, 12:14 AM
Oops looks like I missed Episode 1. Blah. Besides, it's odd that the CBC in Canada is airing Dr.Who! Sci-Fi on CBC? But at least with basic cable I actually get a channel that airs it! Though it sure took them long enough! Don't know if I like the new doctor yet. Rose has improved. She got on my nerves a bit in Series 27. :)
Now I just have to remember to tape it on Mondays at 8pm.

unowhoandwhy
October 19th, 2006, 08:22 AM
And would anyone mind explaining the Princess Anne joke to this stupid American? I mean, is she ugly? Even by British Royal Family standards?

Well, by Royal Family standards (other than Diana's boys) she is probably considered average, I think Charles is the fugly one, but you be the judge:

http://www.superiorpics.com/wenn_album/Princess_Anne_-_Attacked_in_Fiji/Princess_Anne_001_070906.jpg

Nuallain
October 26th, 2006, 05:27 AM
She looks almost exactly like Prince Charles, only in drag. So, no, not good.

Admiral Mappalazarou
October 26th, 2006, 05:36 AM
This episode was okay I suppose, I preffered New Earth. I thought it was abit stupid and sudden at the end when the Queen suddenly announces that she's going to create the Torchwood institution.:confused:

MasySyma
January 18th, 2007, 07:47 PM
It is amazing to see how an episode improves dramatically when not being interrupted by thousands of SciFi commercials.

I finally got my DVD set, and before a DVD crisis, I was able to watch the first few episodes again.

Last time, I hated this episode. I gave it a 3/10 and despised most of it. It's not my favorite, but I can finally appreciate Rose more in this episode when not being forced to watch the trailer of the latest killer bug movie 10 times in 10 minutes.

I continue to find the monks odd too Galaxy Quest, but I didn't mind the return to the Victorian setting as much, and the ending wasn't quite as bad, although the nod to Torchwood could have been a bit more subtle. :)

Originally, this was my least favorite of the season, and I'm thrilled to see it growing on me. I enjoy how this show has a huge rewatch factor.

Coco Pops
May 12th, 2008, 05:18 AM
You can buy those huge diamonds they used in this episoder

I have one. Quite heavy too but nice to look at and when they catch the sun the room fills with colour

Coco Pops
May 12th, 2008, 05:20 AM
It is amazing to see how an episode improves dramatically when not being interrupted by thousands of SciFi commercials.

I finally got my DVD set, and before a DVD crisis, I was able to watch the first few episodes again.

Last time, I hated this episode. I gave it a 3/10 and despised most of it. It's not my favorite, but I can finally appreciate Rose more in this episode when not being forced to watch the trailer of the latest killer bug movie 10 times in 10 minutes.

I continue to find the monks odd too Galaxy Quest, but I didn't mind the return to the Victorian setting as much, and the ending wasn't quite as bad, although the nod to Torchwood could have been a bit more subtle. :)

Originally, this was my least favorite of the season, and I'm thrilled to see it growing on me. I enjoy how this show has a huge rewatch factor.



Monks, Galaxy Quest?

How so?

Cold Fuzz
January 31st, 2010, 11:56 PM
Tooth & Claw will always be one of my favorite DW episodes for a bunch of reasons:

* A DW episode in Scotland = awesomeness :cameron:
* A chance to hear David Tennant's regular Scottish accent
* A werewolf! :cameron:
* The kung-fu opening
* Queen Victoria not being amused ;)
* Seeing the origin of Torchwood
* Knowing that the royal family are lupines :lol:
* A gothic horror feel that actually works :cameron:
* Did I mention a werewolf? :cameron: Wolves are my favorite animals so... :P

gateship15
February 1st, 2010, 12:08 AM
fantastic episode i love the were wolf win this episode and i love the comment about the royal family being were wolfs

Coco Pops
February 1st, 2010, 05:28 PM
fantastic episode i love the were wolf win this episode and i love the comment about the royal family being were wolfs

Well it's a hell of a lot better then the royal family being a bunch of shape changing 7 foot tall reptiles.... (if you have heard those stories)

gateship15
February 1st, 2010, 09:06 PM
lol i like that

maneth
May 31st, 2012, 11:08 AM
Cool episode, and I loved Tennant's natural accent. :D

Coco Pops
May 31st, 2012, 07:40 PM
I love how the Doctor gives scientific explanations for stuff like Werewolves actually being alien and not supernatural......

So I guess vampires are alien too in the Whoniverse.

darkhorseD
May 31st, 2012, 11:49 PM
yes, you'll learn more about vampires in season 5 (series 31) in the episode Vampires in Venice

Coco Pops
June 1st, 2012, 12:11 AM
yes, you'll learn more about vampires in season 5 (series 31) in the episode Vampires in Venice

I know..........I love that episode.........Those girls looked sexy with their dark hair.

But in the old series they had vampires and explained them as some kind of alien and that some were so big you needed a starship to kill them.

darkhorseD
June 6th, 2012, 07:54 AM
really? this is the first time I've heard of this

Coco Pops
June 8th, 2012, 06:47 AM
really? this is the first time I've heard of this

The story is "State Of Decay" a 4th or 5th Doctor story. Haven't seen it in many, many years so can't be sure which Doctor it was.

maneth
July 28th, 2014, 11:27 AM
Another episode I appreciated more the second time. Loved the scientific werewolf.