PDA

View Full Version : technology in atlantis database!!!



genius21
April 11th, 2006, 04:14 AM
It's very simple the ancient invented new things almost everyday and those plans are stored in the database as long the ancients lived and not acendent.

the deadules needs a new power source to strengthen the shield and make it possible for energy based weapons.

we know the ancients build puddlejumpers and warships like aurora and orian.
they have a powerfull power supply but it's to andvanced for us to copy.

in there words it's millions of years beyond us.

what power source did they have before that that's better then we have now but not to advanced to build.

they recorded every bid of technology since they hit computer age in there development.

world war 1 or 2 they build tanks those plans still excist but the tank evolved to what it is today and those plans excist.

look in the database for power source that is better then we have now but not millions of years beyond us.

Happy_Gate
April 11th, 2006, 04:21 AM
If only it was that easy. The database is still being translated and they probably can't just choose what they decipher. They can only hope and come across the technology you describe by luck.

genius21
April 11th, 2006, 05:18 AM
it's logic that a databse has a search function they know enough ancient to type and search in ancient and then translate it.

Raj_2006
April 11th, 2006, 05:32 AM
wht they need is an anicent or ascended anicent to help them find wht they are looking for. :D

Blitz
April 11th, 2006, 06:53 AM
There is a huge, and I mean a HUGE difference between knowing a language and understanding its meaning.

I know english, doesnt mean I know what a car manual says. I have NO knowlege about a car apart from engine + fuel = driving. I don't understand the engines working bits and peices.

They can't just look it up and know what it all means straight away,
If you had no idea on physics could you just pick a book up and start using them? No.

Harry the Hippo Gutterman
April 11th, 2006, 07:21 AM
I'm sure its not just a matter of translating it. The ancients had millions of years to study math and science. Imagine trying to explain to a cave man the concept of Infinity, Pi, Zero, the Golden thread aka the Fibonocci sequence, or the imaginary i. To steal a line from Farscape "we're cavemen trying to figure out 747's here"

P.S. if you're interested in what these are here's a link.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/science/5numbers.shtml

IcyNeko
April 11th, 2006, 09:22 AM
This is a point I've tried to bring out during the whole "CAN WE BUILD BIGGER WARSHIPS ON EARTH" thread.

If it were a matter of translation, I'm sure Landry wouldn't mind having Daniel pack away some gear and hop over to Atlantis for a few months to help them find what they need. Especially since Daniel's the closest we have to an ascended ancient (who can make use of his memories - not like Orlin)...

genius21
April 11th, 2006, 11:07 AM
we didn't know about naquada generators but sam developed one in one episode don't underestemate the human mind the text need to be translate to english before you can understand the rest off it if you give me instructions in chinese to build a car i would translate it and work from there you need to build it to understand it.

IcyNeko
April 11th, 2006, 11:30 AM
we didn't know about naquada generators but sam developed one in one episode don't underestemate the human mind the text need to be translate to english before you can understand the rest off it if you give me instructions in chinese to build a car i would translate it and work from there you need to build it to understand it.
Your inability to write a paragraph without punctuation mark is a clear indication that the human race has a long way to go.

Try and keep up. I might use terms too high level for you.

There's is a distinct difference between translating out of a database and putting it into practice. Telling someone how to build a schematic in a foreign language STILL is likely to cause problems because certain words don't translate correctly. (I know this as a fact because I am Chinese) THAT IS STILL JUST a LANGUAGE ISSUE.

We're talking about advancing our understanding of technology and mathematical equations that we haven't even begun contemplating. We're talking learning to build things on levels that make the asgard blush. Even They're just "scratching the surface" on that technology -- and if we haven't developed the technology yet (or even a theory of it), you can be sure as hell we don't have a word for it. How will we translate that then?

Naquadah Technology and Goa'uld Technology are easier for us to understand because it's all still relatively close to our level of technology. But if the Asgard are still marvelling at the Ancient's technology... we've got a ways to go.

Didn't it take Sam a few years just to get the stargate working enough for the first trip? And a full 3-4 seasons to really get a good hold on the technology?

When you try and throw a rebuttal for a point, at least use the right context. You're oversimplifying technology, and as a scientist, it makes me laugh. Out loud. At you, not with you.

MarshAngel
April 11th, 2006, 11:37 AM
There is a huge, and I mean a HUGE difference between knowing a language and understanding its meaning.

I know english, doesnt mean I know what a car manual says. I have NO knowlege about a car apart from engine + fuel = driving. I don't understand the engines working bits and peices.

They can't just look it up and know what it all means straight away,
If you had no idea on physics could you just pick a book up and start using them? No.

In our reality, when you run a search on a subject you don't automatically get specs on how to build a car, or the physics that answer the question of why a plane flies, how to get lift, the science behind thrust and air flow yadda yadda. Majority of the information on the subject will be somewhat superficial, which can be very enlightening even if you don't understand the finer points especially if you have a scientific background.

I have never taken physics, mechanics or molecular biology but I read articles on those subjects all the time. I might not be able to figure out how to do it, but at least I know it can be done and I have a starting point to begin further research if I wanted to.

The problem is they find stuff in the city and the database only when it's convenient to the story line; not exactly what I call good writing. And it's a problem easily solved by giving us a proper idea of the level of difficulty they face and what if anything they're doing to get through the information. But what happens is that they have a problem and guess what... "we found out the ancients were working on..."

If they say the database is encrypted, difficult to access, they don't know what to search for... I might buy it. But they have barely said anything on the subject that doesn't serve to muddle the issue rather than clear it up.

IcyNeko
April 11th, 2006, 11:44 AM
Sweet! A Voice of Reason that's well thought out. Green for you! :O

Rodan5757
April 11th, 2006, 01:50 PM
In SG1 they found Merlin's magical typewriter, just because Daniel could read it and translate it to Carter who is smarter then McKay, doesn't mean anything. The Asgard knew more about what it was talking about then we ever could, and they had it for a fraction of the time due to a low battery (figures right). We are way in over or heads with the level of tech, and even theory, the ancients messed around with.

I do agree that everyone seem to stumble upon solutions hidden in the database at convinient times, but couldn't that be explained by the "living" nature of the ancient tech. It seems to know what it needs to do and provides a solution accordingly. Maybe we aren't finding any of it, maybe the computer is *letting* us know what we need to know, when we really need to know it.

Either that...or TPTB have decided that we're all idiots and will just go with the flow. But why would they do that? :D

Avenger
April 11th, 2006, 03:00 PM
You're over simpliflying this way too. Just because they have the information doesn't mean they could apply it and make it useful. Suppose I had the plans for a nuclear reactor. Just the plans. Could I just go out and build one? Of course not. There is a lot of equipment that I would need to acomplish that that I would not have access to. Also, having the plans doesn't gaurentee that I would even be able to understand the plans at all.

genius21
April 11th, 2006, 05:11 PM
the database is like a library when the ancients had kids they put them possiblie behind a computer becouse everything is in it to learn it we know the basics we can expand on that you all make it harder then it is we had nuclear and now use naquadria as if it was nothing (watch the episodes)
understand what i mean expand on the basics we didn't know hyperspace but they use it daily and daniel made the gate work.

like going from horse to gasoline we have the understanding about naquadria they know how the zpm work they know the asguard power source.

If i made a database containing technology i would put everything with it to building and understanding it in that database it would be stupid not to put that in the database the ancients would have done the same.

there not building the ancient latest technology but they can begin with the beginning.

and don't say i will make it simple for you i hate that i'm almost blind not stupid atleast my diploma's dont say so.

you all make it to hard and then you want it to make it simple.

they don't know how a puddlejumper works but they repair it or make the cloak a shield,

they make atlantis shield in a cloak but they dont know how it works.

i will make it simple for you what you say apply in real life this is a show.

IcyNeko
April 11th, 2006, 08:15 PM
Let me make this simple for you: When you can take a schematic on how to make a computer from scratch, then integrate it into your car, and create a micronized nuclear reactor to power everything so you don't have to use gas...

THEN and only THEN will I not say "let me make this simple for you".

It's really easier to figure out how to use foreign technology than it is to build it from a schematic. And even then, if you LACK THE BASIC components needed to make the objects, it's going to take you a long time.

What I'm saying is.. Say you're going to build an Ancient Warship. You need metals for the armor. That may or may not be the easy part. Say the armor is made from tritanium-trinium alloy. How are we going to make that allow in the first place? This will take research. Then it will take upgrading our foundries to make the metal. Then we have to find out how to bend the metal to skin the ship. It'll take a while to do that. We have to learn the properties of the ship.

We need a reactor core. We're not sure how to make it. Say we go trekkie and the core is dilithium. Where are we going to find dilithium? There goes one hunt. Then we have to build a containment unit that will keep the energy from nuking the entire engineering room, which would kill everyone. We may have a schematic for that. Say we do. This would take the same research as described in the armor portion. And then we have to find a way to get matter/antimatter into the chamber. the process repeats itself.

Now, for weapons. We have to build energy emitters. We may need rare crystals. Where do we find those? How do we mine for them? How do we ensure a steady flow of power without overloading the weapons banks? If we have projectile weapons (drones)... how do we make more? I saw those drones.. that's pretty complex stuff there -- good for at least a year or two in R&D before even attempting to make a prototype.

Deflector shields and inertial dampeners. The inertial dampeners may not hold for a large vessel if our current technology is for a smaller ship. Back to R&D. Deflector shields... how do we create ancient equivalent? How does their shield work and what type of energy is generated? Schematics will only tell so much, the rest is back to mathematical equations.

Oh, right. We need a computer system to control it all. Riight. Well, we can bulk up using current technology with servers and supercomputers to control all the systems, possibly underpowering the entire ship or overwhelming each system with the power that flows through the lines. It's best to use their technology.

Oh wait, their processors are crystals. So are most of their "motherboards". How do we know which board does what? R&D.. maybe 6 months. Now we know what each board is, how do we make it? How do we grow enough crystals or program the crystal to do what we need it to do? There goes a year in R&D. Now we have to design the interface cards.

I would go into propulsion from there, but you get the point.

All this is assuming we have the schematics and possibly the materials to make the components. Just having the schematics allows us to create each component, not test it. No one in their right mind would create a ship without testing each individual component. It's different from constructing a ship that we designed and are 100% sure we know what we're doing versus constructing a ship based on someone else's design and not knowing the special techniques to make it.

A more grounded example: WOuld you buy an airsoft rifle from China or Japan? I bought a Chinese rifle, which was made from schematics from a reversed engineered Japanese rifle. Both look the same. But when I go to shoot it, the Chinese rifle tends to get stuck and has horrible aim. The Japanese one is far, far superior.

You may have a degree, but you don't act like it's one that has experience in engineering. :P

GOD, now i know how the Asgard feel. No more griping about Hermiod...

Rodan5757
April 12th, 2006, 06:36 AM
Wow, thats so very simplistic of you :P

I have to agree compeltely. It basicly comes down to this though, suppose the Atlantis team did complete understand everything in the database...and I mean everything...they still couldn't use that knowledge.

You have to at least assume that the Ancients had at one time an entire civilization with factories and sophisticated self mining mines...no Jaffa or human slaves ;). All we have is the city, the one time they did find a factory, McKay went a blew it up. I'd like to see the best engineer in the world build a car in your backyard, only with the materials found in your backyard. I can tell you right now, it ain't gonna happen.

It comes down to the fact that we may have the means...let TPTB figure all that out...but we don't have the way. Which is why in my previous post I assume intelligent computer systems that do all the work for us in the toughest situations...yes...now if only I had one of those. :D

Damar
April 12th, 2006, 10:49 AM
On a slight related matter, is it just me or is Ancient technology relativly easy to work with, even for a less advanced race?

I mean, to open up a closed door in Atlantis, you only need to move some crystals in the control panel, and even a idiot would by trial-and-error get the crystals in the right position.

IcyNeko
April 12th, 2006, 11:19 AM
Well, we're slightly smater than average idiots. ;)

Presumably, if you put the crystals in wrong order, you'll blow a fuse.. so to speak.

:)

Lonewolf
April 12th, 2006, 11:51 AM
Ok do a search in the web (the web is smaller than the database), look up automobile with fuel and build one for us!!! Its not that simple, oh and use Navajo (almost lost Indian language) as the language to do the search and translate it. That should simplify what needs to be done!!

Auto's are easy to find on the web now look up a fusion reactor (for power) & Quark detector (like in England) thay are the Sensors and build it in a space ship!! oh don’t for get the life support for say 2000 people and food of a year.

best of luck!!

like they said in Atlantis ,they did not have the storage capabilities even with all the HD we had so figure 1000 laptops and 100 gig hard drives, so we say 100000 gigs and with compression 8%. ouch i have enough problems finding files on a 40 gig hard drive.

Rodan5757
April 12th, 2006, 12:18 PM
Especially if the ancient database is an acctual database with compression of its own. Yea, that a lot of info to go through.

And, as far are just simply connecting crystals together...we can't be that nieve about it. Look at the Goa'uld mother ships, are fixing those just randomly pulling and replacing crystals, probably not, but it sure seems like it.

I take all of that with many grains of salt and with the mindset that it may be the same argument as "every alien speaks english". If every episode explained the most minute details about every bit of science on a completely alien city-ship, there wouldn't be much of a show left for anythign else to happen for about 5-6 seasons, and thats with McKay's compression algorithm.