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GateWorld
April 8th, 2006, 09:06 PM
<DIV ALIGN=CENTER><TABLE WIDTH=450 BORDER=0 CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=7><TR><TD><DIV ALIGN=LEFT><FONT FACE="Arial" SIZE=2 COLOR="#000000"><A HREF="http://www.scifistream.com/lost/s2/index.shtml#220"><IMG SRC="http://www.scifistream.com/lost/graphics/220.jpg" WIDTH=160 HEIGHT=120 ALIGN=RIGHT HSPACE=10 VSPACE=2 BORDER=0 STYLE="border: 1px solid black" ALT="Visit the Episode Guide"></A><FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#888888">LOST SEASON TWO</FONT>
<FONT SIZE=4><A HREF="http://www.scifistream.com/lost/s2/index.shtml#220" STYLE="text-decoration: none">TWO FOR THE ROAD</A></FONT>
<FONT SIZE=1>EPISODE NUMBER - 220</FONT>
<IMG SRC="/images/clear.gif" WIDTH=1 HEIGHT=10 ALT="">
After the prisoner attacks Ana Lucia, she is tempted to kill him and reminded of her shady past -- and working for Jack's father in Australia. When Michael returns with news of the Others' encampment, Jack and Locke prepare to attack them.

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NowIWillDestroyAbydos
May 4th, 2006, 05:33 AM
Holy crap was that an ending to an ep. I seriously blew me away Ana Lusia and Libby killed within 20 seconds, that's a shocker (Libby's death, not Ana's death because I somewhat expected that). I give the ep (with the exception of the last 5 minutes) a **1/2, and the last 5 minutes a **** (or ***1/2)

Tok'Ra Hostess
May 4th, 2006, 05:51 AM
Another jaw-dropper, this week. NOOOOOO!!! Not Libby!!! :(

Poor Hurley. Is he gonna lay down under the wet blanket of blame or what? If only he'd found that spot on the beach, or remembered to bring blankets, she'd still be alive. Oh, well, at least I don't think any of the numbers were involved, this time....

I just hope she's not dead; that Jack can save her somehow. If she dies, I guess that we'll get the rest of her backstory through Hurley's flashbacks.

And speaking of flashbacks, WOAH! Claire is Jack's sister!?!

As for AL, yeah, after Not Henry Gale's little speech, I figured she'd be executed. Unlike many viewers, I will miss AL. I think she brought something good to the mix of characters. Quite frankly, at this point in their development, I'd miss any of the characters.

Now I'd figured out that Micheal was a mole for the others, but I thought that he had been sent to execute Not Henry Gale, not to stage his escape(that's what I think Micheal was doing). And to blithely shoot yourself in the arm at such close range, no hesitation...<shudders>. Quite the powerful brainwashing, there.

I knew a guy who did that to himself to impress this girl who had broken up with him, I guess in a bid to gain her pity and win her back. He didn't get the girl, but he did blow his entire arm off.

I don't imagine the damage from a tv bullet will be quite so severe....

memnarch
May 4th, 2006, 06:01 AM
I only saw the last twenty minutes, so I don't have a comlete picture of what happened. Still, I doubt severely that Michael is working for the Others, at least on any permanent basis. His main motivation is to get Walt back. That's all he's thought about this entire season. Michael must have made a deal with the Others that if he got Henry back for them, then he'd receive Walt back (which any rational person would say %&^# you to, but he's missing his kid). And as a contingency plan, he's going to incite the survivors to go after the Others so he will without a doubt get Walt back and be able to take revenge on them for taking his son. As for Ana Lucia, I wish they hadn't killed her, though I think it was necessary for the story. Libby isn't dead. Period. I heard Hurley's voice saying to Michael in the preview, "Thank god you survived man" and he didn't sound as though he'd just lost the girl he was really starting to care about. I think Libby will just be in a coma or unconcious for a while so she can't spill that it was Michael that shot her.

Thermonuclearboy
May 4th, 2006, 06:11 AM
:eek:


BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

<pant pant pant>

AAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Farscape flashbacks! I'm having Farscape flashbacks!

Tok'Ra Hostess
May 4th, 2006, 06:19 AM
...

Gawd!

Please don't post spoilers for upcoming eps! Use spoiler tags.

C'mon! :(

yaaayoubetcha
May 4th, 2006, 07:03 AM
i should have inserted a spoiler

dude....spoiler tags...some of us want to watch the show unmolested.

that said...

the rumour had been there about AL getting whacked since her DUI. Whether the two are linked or just coincidence is something I'd really like to know.

to a certain extent, I hope Libby is dead...she could be a great character for Hurley, but since they don't write that much for Hurley, she doesn't get a lot of screen time anyway. If for some reason she makes it to S3, then I really hope they have more Hurley-centric eps. He's my fave after Locke.

I'm really interested in hearing the philosophy behind good and bad. I loved Henry's line...I came here to get you, John. You're one of the good ones.
Is Michael one of the bad ones and so fair game to manipulate like this? If so, give me the thought processes!!!

Somebody above indicated that Jack's dad was talking to Claire's mom. Do we know for sure that's who that was? I don't remember the settings for Claire's backstory other than the apartment scenes.

ItsDan
May 4th, 2006, 07:39 AM
I watched the scene a few times, and while the woman does have a heavy Australian accent, nothing else really ties her to Claire.

Tok'Ra Hostess
May 4th, 2006, 07:50 AM
I watched the scene a few times, and while the woman does have a heavy Australian accent, nothing else really ties her to Claire.

Oh, I'd say that Claire has that woman's looks. In her season one flashbacks I don't believe mention is ever made of Claire's father, only of her mum. It came as a real surprise to me to see who Jack's dad was talking to, as I was half expecting to see Shannon at the door.

I'm still wondering why Jack's dad needed a bodyguard and how he managed to wind up dead in that alley. Surely he didn't need protection from that woman, especially since he asked AL to stay in the car where she wouldn't be much use.

Tok'Ra Hostess
May 4th, 2006, 07:58 AM
Michael must have made a deal with the Others that if he got Henry back for them, then he'd receive Walt back

I don't think so. A non-brainwashed Micheal would have threatened AL with the gun, perhaps, but he stood there and shot her in cold blood. Looked like a planned assassination, to me. And then to turn the gun on himself and fire without so much as flinching.... that's simply not a normal reaction.

Watters87
May 4th, 2006, 08:14 AM
the rumour had been there about AL getting whacked since her DUI. Whether the two are linked or just coincidence is something I'd really like to know.



It was a coincidence.
Ausiello talked with Damon Lindelof and Carlton Cuse about Michelle Rodriguez.
http://community.tvguide.com/forum.jspa?forumID=700000049

MarshAngel
May 4th, 2006, 08:36 AM
I am so watching this episode again on the website. I totally missed out on some dialogue in that scene with Ana Lucia and Jack's dad.

This episode was shocking enough to be viewed twice.

Am I the only one who thinks the other's Michael described aren't the same others doing the kidnapping?

Osiris-RA
May 4th, 2006, 11:06 AM
This episode was shocking enough to be viewed twice.

Thank goodness for ABC's new streaming episode thingie, huh? 'cause...frankly this episode confused me, I have to see it again.


Am I the only one who thinks the other's Michael described aren't the same others doing the kidnapping?

Nope. I think he's been brainwashed or subverted...or cloned. But that's just me. :p

Maybe there's two different camps of Others. The ones who kidnap, and then other that are too weak or young to do anything like that.

Tok'Ra Hostess
May 4th, 2006, 11:30 AM
Or the others could be laying a trap, the better to take out and disarm the most dangerous Losties. It would be easier for the others if Micheal led them into their own territory where they could seperate the "good" from the "bad."

ItsDan
May 4th, 2006, 11:34 AM
It's probably a trap. Henry almost looked like he expected Michael to show up, and wasn't scared. Michael doesn't know that they found evidence that "The Others" AREN'T just 'tent-dwellers'. I'm bettning they agreed to return Walt if Michael helped them. It seems like he's letting Henry escape.

yaaayoubetcha
May 4th, 2006, 11:44 AM
It was a coincidence.
Ausiello talked with Damon Lindelof and Carlton Cuse about Michelle Rodriguez.
http://community.tvguide.com/forum.jspa?forumID=700000049

well sure....that's what they say in public...

but i just find it ironic that the two women that got tagged for DUI while filming also end up dead at the end of the season...that coupled with rumours of MR ongoing questionable behaviour make me wonder.

of course they're not going to say, well he had to kill her off because firing her for a drinking problem would get us sued.

Hywel
May 4th, 2006, 01:21 PM
Wow. That episode totally blew me away. The ending seemed like season finale material! I can't wait to see what's coming next.

And I loved the 'There's Jin!' scene, with Jin's sign of approval. :p That totally cracked me up.

Ragnarok13
May 4th, 2006, 02:41 PM
is libby seriously dead?, i would of liked to see more of her and her history with the nut house and stuff. why michael!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?

KatG
May 4th, 2006, 03:00 PM
Okay. Went back and watched it again. The woman Jack's dad was talking too could definitely be Claire's mother, in fact at first I thought he was talking to Claire when I saw her from a distance.

And wow, talk about being blown away. I so totally did not expect that. Especially since tptb made a point of saying that the "issues" with the actors playing Ana Lucia and Libby would not affect their roles. And I sure as heck didn't expect Michael to kill them.

And sigh. Poor Hurley. He's gonna be devastated.

memnarch
May 4th, 2006, 04:47 PM
dude....spoiler tags...some of us want to watch the show unmolested.

Gawd!

Please don't post spoilers for upcoming eps! Use spoiler tags.

C'mon!



Okay, Tok'ra Hostess, you also posted spoilers. Before me. Also without tags. Please don't tell me off for something you also did. :(


SPOILERS (Happy?)


Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Michael say he was sorry to Ana Lucia before shooting her? And didn't he look shocked or remorseful when he shot Libby in panic? Maybe I don't remember correctly. I'm watching it again soon, though...

aaobuttons
May 4th, 2006, 06:12 PM
Okay, Tok'ra Hostess, you also posted spoilers. Before me. Also without tags. Please don't tell me off for something you also did. :(


SPOILERS (Happy?)


Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Michael say he was sorry to Ana Lucia before shooting her? And didn't he look shocked or remorseful when he shot Libby in panic? Maybe I don't remember correctly. I'm watching it again soon, though...

I believe she was referring to the Desmond comment you made which I was also unhappy about reading since I don't like to be spoiled either.

ItsDan
May 4th, 2006, 06:23 PM
I think Ana's dead. I bet Libby is just unconscious for a couple episodes so the others will follow Michael for a few episodes before she wakes up and tells them what happened.

There are clues in the 'coming next week' that they both may not be dead.


1. Hurley is speaking and doesn't seem overly upset, as he probably would be if Libby was completely dead.

2. Kate says "she's dead", not "they're dead". Could be out of context, but still a clue.



Also, Ana Lucia had her 'closure'. She felt she was a murderer, and then in this episode learned she isn't, that she couldn't kill that guy. It's very similar to Shannon's infact. It seems when a character gets closure, they die. I doubt that's a part of the show and really just part of the brilliant writing.

Libby didn't really get any closure here.

Happy_Gate
May 4th, 2006, 06:48 PM
Ana Lucia dying wasn't a big surprise for me. The rumors of Lost's PTB being unhappy with Michelle Rodriguez had been flying around a long time ago. But to have Micheal do it! Brilliant!
As soon as he said I'm sorry, I knew he was gonna shoot Ana Lucia. I think the others are threatening to harm Walt if he didn't free the guy in the cell and make it look like the guy escaped himself.

KatG
May 4th, 2006, 07:08 PM
Okay, Tok'ra Hostess, you also posted spoilers. Before me. Also without tags. Please don't tell me off for something you also did. :(




She didn't post spoilers. She posted info on the current ep (no spoilers required) and speculation based on the episode.

Redmen
May 5th, 2006, 03:50 AM
I do hope that Libby isnt dead coz Hurley will totaly lose it if she is. But she did take two shots. (Maybe she was holding something solid under the blankets).

Formerhost
May 5th, 2006, 05:00 AM
I really hope Libby is not dead.

Tok'Ra Hostess
May 5th, 2006, 05:16 AM
I do hope that Libby isnt dead coz Hurley will totaly lose it if she is. But she did take two shots. (Maybe she was holding something solid under the blankets).

Maybe they're kevlar blankets. :P

Or she wrapped a steel serving tray in them.

Or a Bible - Bibles are always stopping bullets ya know.

:D

Primus Commander Woden
May 5th, 2006, 05:38 AM
HOLY MOTHER OF CRAP!!! watching it yesterday <snip>, I love every episode of Lost, but what i love is that fact the episode may be really good or rubbish until the last 5 minutes where it makes it out of this world amazing....having just watched this episode i realised just how amazing Lost is....i was in shock, tears the lot lol its a rediculous Twist!!!!! i might even say it is better than episode 7 which is hard to top!!!!!

I am going to go recover and cry some more over what i saw!!!

for me, there are a few possibilities.....

1) Libby is not dead, she recovers but Hurley remembers where he knows her from, tells people and no one believes her that it was michael because she was in a mental institute!

2) Ana is also alive, yet michael finishes her off again, the fact that michael shot himself but didnt kill himself is a key thing for next weeks episode because....

3) everyone is going to believe that Henry did this, and when michael is still alive he is going to tell everyone he tried to stop him, this is going to piss off and make angry ....Jack (who liked ana), Locke who was the only one who really looked after henry...Sawyer seeing as his sex buddy just got killed...Hurley seeing as his new and hot gf has just been killed....sayid because he lost Shannon and knows how Hurley feels...Michael as he wants Walt back...o and Kate because she is always up for fighting..

So already we have Jack, Locke, Sawyer, Hurley, Sayid, Michael, Kate....when the others hear what has happened you know Charlie will join in after what happened to him, as well as Bernard as he spent so long with Libby and Ana...and im sure they will get an army together to go and take on the others...and you know Eco will join in cos that guy is such a beater...would you like to take him on???and Jin will probably just go along for the ride lol cos thats what he does!

4) Michael is ding a trade for walt...if u remember in a few episodes previously Zeek (bearded other) said michael and walt are fine...so that leads me to believe that they captured Michael and therefore they may have said if he gives them "Henry" they will give him Walt, and michael as we saw was in no state to say no to that, as we saw he was shaking and saying sorry to ana before he did it, that doesnt give me the impression of someone who has been brainwashed! Moreover, it may never of been his intention to kill anyone maybe he didnt want others to be there so he could of just shot himself and set him free but had to do it to insure that henry got away!

Just a though lol but what fun!!

Primus Commander Woden
May 5th, 2006, 05:43 AM
There is also going to be more friction between Jack and Locke because Locke didnt tell him the truth.....straight after Locke lectures Jack about Involving him in evverything yet Locke, ironically, doesnt tell Jack that Henry attacked Ana which is an important piece of information!

NowIWillDestroyAbydos
May 5th, 2006, 05:44 AM
I have a link related to what happened at the end of the ep
http://www.tv.com/story/story.html&story_id=4395

I would have had another link (from aol.com) but the link is no longer up. The clip included the scenes where Ana Lucia and Libby were shot, but doesn't include the scene where Michael goes in the cell with what's his face and shoots himself in the the arm (or chest)

Primus Commander Woden
May 5th, 2006, 05:54 AM
Also just had a thought the title itself "Two for the road" gives me the sense that two people are leaving, so it could be logical to assume that both ana and libby are dead...unfortunately...

Skydiver
May 5th, 2006, 05:55 AM
i too hope/think that libby is alive. she had something in those blankets. i expected ana lucia to die. coincidence or not, the fact taht she's been in trouble kinda makes it not surprising

i aldo think that michael is in league with henry somehow. In fact, i think that henry is the leader of the others. at the very least, he's on a mission to keep them off thier game

he's deliberatly played locke against jack and done his best to stir things up

i think henry's goal is to keep the losties fighting amongst themselves...so that they can never band together and start to aske the imporant questions

i think between him and micheal, they accomplished thier goal, which was to disarm the losties

memnarch
May 5th, 2006, 05:58 AM
I believe she was referring to the Desmond comment you made which I was also unhappy about reading since I don't like to be spoiled either.


In that case, I apologize. I leaped before I looked.:(

Primus Commander Woden
May 5th, 2006, 06:53 AM
once again lost has done it.....did anyone notice, when those police cars were parked, when ana and her mum were chatting it was extra long...that is because if you look. the numbers 4,8,15,16,23,42, are on the top of the cars as well as 63? now my opinion is that this new number will occur in Hatch number 2....anyway im sure it is an important number hehehe....thought you would all like to know!

ItsDan
May 5th, 2006, 06:59 AM
I wonder why they didn't ask Michael where all the guns were that he took with him when he left. If he hadn't been captured, and hadn't had direct confrontation with the Others, he should have still had them.

ItsDan
May 5th, 2006, 07:43 AM
I believe Christian's girl friend is the one listed as:

Gabrielle Fitzpatrick .... Lindsey



on IMDB.com. Her last name is missing which means it might be important. Was there another Lindsey? I can't imagine who else that would be.

ste
May 5th, 2006, 07:50 AM
I think the others made a deal with him, if he killed her he would get his son back, or at least get to see him, i think the others wanted her dead because she had killed two of them, also it prob means Echo and Charlie might be in trouble as they have killed some of the others, also did anyone see the clip for the next episode, all im saying in Mr Echo.

Redmen
May 5th, 2006, 10:58 AM
I think the others made a deal with him, if he killed her he would get his son back, or at least get to see him, i think the others wanted her dead because she had killed two of them, also it prob means Echo and Charlie might be in trouble as they have killed some of the others, also did anyone see the clip for the next episode, all im saying in Mr Echo.

Yeah but Echo said to the prisoner in the hatch that he is sorry for killing them. But i guess they aint a forgiving bunch...

GhostPoet
May 5th, 2006, 11:48 AM
Whoa...this episode blew me away.

I KNEW Michael couldn't be trusted...but I totally didn't see two main characters dying off. Man, what a twist!!! As always I bow to Abrams writing talent.

My wife and I were discussing this episode and she brought up a good point. Both actresses were arrested for drinking and driving, brawling, etc...that probably got them kicked off the show.

But anyway, back to the show itself...man...I had no idea how far Michael was willing to go..

However, I know some believe he is brainwashed. I don't believe that. He knew what he was doing...he didn't want to do it. But he did it anyway.

I think he did it because A) He knows the secret of the island and is doing what is "needed" b) They are holding his kid hostage and forcing him to do it to save his sons life.

GhostPoet
May 5th, 2006, 11:50 AM
i too hope/think that libby is alive. she had something in those blankets. i expected ana lucia to die. coincidence or not, the fact taht she's been in trouble kinda makes it not surprising

i aldo think that michael is in league with henry somehow. In fact, i think that henry is the leader of the others. at the very least, he's on a mission to keep them off thier game

he's deliberatly played locke against jack and done his best to stir things up

i think henry's goal is to keep the losties fighting amongst themselves...so that they can never band together and start to aske the imporant questions

i think between him and micheal, they accomplished thier goal, which was to disarm the losties

Ypu, I think Henry is the leader also.

I think their plan is to have Michael gather up the strongest of the Losties and all the guns and then lead them into a trap. Take the strongest, well armed out and the others are defensless.

ItsDan
May 5th, 2006, 12:36 PM
I really doubt Henry is the leader. Why would the leader let himself be captured? He'd send one of his minions. That's what Henry probably is, a minion.

Ragnarok13
May 5th, 2006, 01:40 PM
i still think michael was brainwashed. while he looked like he felt guilty, he had little or no hesitation. he seemed like he was aware of his actions but had no contol like he was possesed or somthing

GhostPoet
May 5th, 2006, 02:44 PM
i still think michael was brainwashed. while he looked like he felt guilty, he had little or no hesitation. he seemed like he was aware of his actions but had no contol like he was possesed or somthing
Mind control.
Henry used mind control to make him do it and then shoot himself in the shoulder.

Jonzey
May 5th, 2006, 04:50 PM
I highly doubt that the others want to lure people into a trap. I mean, if they wanted to kill them they could easily have done it a few million times by now.

Personally, I think there are two groups of others- the Beardy guy and his pals, and the lost kids without shoes- and I think Michael found the shoeless other's base camp. Maybe theres something in the hatch he needs to get, but they wont let him near it. So he thinks if he brought back an army, they could take over the place. But when he hears about Henry, he decides that he could try and make a trade.

I had more of that idea but I'm tired and it's too hot.

ItsDan
May 5th, 2006, 04:58 PM
The group is already willing to trade Henry for Walt. He didn't need to kill people to get it.

Tok'Ra Hostess
May 5th, 2006, 06:11 PM
We just saw an ep where well dressed Others had lockers with raggedy clothes and a theatrical makeup kit with a beard and face glue. That medical hatch had modern equipment...and raggedy clothes on hangers. Ergo, the others are all the same people but are assigned different missions.

Well, that's my theory, anyways. :)

But speaking of that medical hatch, remember how Claire was during her time with Ethon? She was drugged and she was happy and friendly with him and, presumably, whatever staff was there with them.

Is it simply coincidence that we got Claire's flashback so soon before Micheal comes back, or setup to explain Micheal's behavoir? I think he's been brainwashed. Micheal may love his son, but mostly we've seen him conflicted about taking him back(from his adopted dad). He gave up on his son before, when he was a baby, albeit not without a fight. I just don't see him killing those he considers friends in exchange for a faint hope that the others - proven murderers and kidnappers - will uphold their end of some bargain and give him Walt.

There has been a lot of mind-altering on the island - most notably, Boone seeing his sister in trouble, cutting himself loose to go and save her, seeing the monster and then Shannon, dead. Locke, seeing Boone all bloody and talking about how "Maria falls up the stairs, Maria falls down the stairs." There is some serious stuff going on here and the others are in control of all that, including Micheal's actions; I'd bet on it.

memnarch
May 5th, 2006, 06:52 PM
I think Henry and Locke's conversation needs to be brought up (again, possibly, didn't see anyone else talking about it much). Henry says to Locke that he is "one of the good ones." Clearly, the Others don't think Ana is a good one for their purposes (I'm guessing genetic engeneering or that they're people who can be convinced to see the "importance" of the Others work). Also, I don't know if there's a connection, but Locke has seen the monster and was likely "scanned" by it, much like Eko was. It may be that Eko and Locke are some of the good ones as determined by smokey (possibly aka Cerberus). However, if this is the case, I don't think Eko will turn to the Others since he stared down smokey and is very religious, where as Locke believes in the Island. Locke, on the other hand, may. I think this would be an interesting direction for the show to take, and it may already be taking it with Michael. Michael may be one of the good ones. It's difficult to tell which of the fusies the Others consider good ones because Ethan never finished his list. However, it's safe to say that Jack, Kate, and Charlie aren't, since the Others have shown they don't want Kate or Charlie, and don't like Jack, as evidenced by Mr. Friendly (aka Zeke). Thoughts?

Skydiver
May 5th, 2006, 07:28 PM
IMHO, telling locke that he's 'one of the good ones' is just another way to divide the losties.

if locke believes that he's good, then someone must be bad...and being 'good' can be used to justify locke's actions to himself

all along, henry has played the losties against each other. he keeps them separate, keeps them at odds, keeps them fighting...keeps them keeping secrets

'divided they fall'

divided they can't discuss and think and come up with any good ideas or solid theories

Redmen
May 6th, 2006, 02:28 AM
I think Henry and Locke's conversation needs to be brought up (again, possibly, didn't see anyone else talking about it much). Henry says to Locke that he is "one of the good ones." Clearly, the Others don't think Ana is a good one for their purposes (I'm guessing genetic engeneering or that they're people who can be convinced to see the "importance" of the Others work). Also, I don't know if there's a connection, but Locke has seen the monster and was likely "scanned" by it, much like Eko was. It may be that Eko and Locke are some of the good ones as determined by smokey (possibly aka Cerberus). However, if this is the case, I don't think Eko will turn to the Others since he stared down smokey and is very religious, where as Locke believes in the Island. Locke, on the other hand, may. I think this would be an interesting direction for the show to take, and it may already be taking it with Michael. Michael may be one of the good ones. It's difficult to tell which of the fusies the Others consider good ones because Ethan never finished his list. However, it's safe to say that Jack, Kate, and Charlie aren't, since the Others have shown they don't want Kate or Charlie, and don't like Jack, as evidenced by Mr. Friendly (aka Zeke). Thoughts?

Yeah but what makes you a bad one killing some one? I dont remember Jack doing something bad in the flashbacks. Does it count how you lived your life before the crash. Kate killed a guy, Sawyer has alot off sins (and we know he killed at least one person), Jin worked for a Mafia boss (so he probably killed) , Charlie killed Ethan, Echo killed alot off people and Ana too.

Nyarlathotep
May 6th, 2006, 02:56 AM
I don't think it's as simple as who has done good and bad things - it seems to be about those who can be redeemed and those that can't. They tried to take Eko who had been a very very bad man :) but was trying to find redemption. The children are largely innocent anyway hence they have all been taken.
It's kind of interesting how many of the tailies were taken compared to the fusies now I think about it - seems most of the bad ones were in the fuselage...

As for the ep... I've thought for some time that there are multiple tribes of Others out there (though the disguises in the medical hatch kind of changed my mind on that one) - but this ep got me thinking again that there might be at least 2 (perhaps the disguises are used to infiltrate the other groups like they tried to do with Henry...).

And as for Michael... well, to me it looks like they have made a deal with him - Walt stays safe if you execute Ana-Lucia (for killing 2 of them, 2 good ones according to what Henry said), get Not Henry out and either retrieve something from the hatch guarded by the other Others or as others have said here, lead your leaders into a trap :)
He certainly didn't seem brainwashed and I would say has certainly made a strong enough connection with his son that he would do anything to keep him safe.

Oh, and I think Libby will live despite being shot twice in the blankets :)

Jonzey
May 6th, 2006, 05:35 AM
You guys remember when the guys from the tail were crossing the island and they saw those weird kids with no shoes and the teddy covered in wire?

I'm willing to bet that they are different others. The beardy guy's others, as we know, can move very quickly and quietly, they're smart and organised, and are not seen unless they want to be. Plus I'd still think they'd wear shoes, just so they don't step on sharp rocks and stuff. I mean, if they're posing as poor people, they could still wear shoes. Who would notice?

memnarch
May 6th, 2006, 08:28 AM
IMHO, telling locke that he's 'one of the good ones' is just another way to divide the losties.

if locke believes that he's good, then someone must be bad...and being 'good' can be used to justify locke's actions to himself

all along, henry has played the losties against each other. he keeps them separate, keeps them at odds, keeps them fighting...keeps them keeping secrets

'divided they fall'

divided they can't discuss and think and come up with any good ideas or solid theories

I agree that's very possible, but what about Goodwin's comments to Ana Lucia about the good ones? He was either going to kill her or take her so he wouldn't have wanted to divide her with anyone, would he?

Primus Commander Woden
May 7th, 2006, 05:01 AM
wait a mo, you cant beleive anythign they say they were goign to kill claire and take her baby...they are the bad ones

Tok'Ra Hostess
May 7th, 2006, 05:44 AM
<nods in agreement> Goodwin killed the guy AL had in the pit and Ethon as much as killed Charlie and succeeded in killing Scott(... Steve? :confused: )

It's likely that the real Henry Gale was murdered by the Others, too.

I don't think that "good" has anything to do with morality, on this island.

As for the guy Goodwin killed, anyone else think that he was a Dharma agent after all, but one who, having been caught, had failed at his mission and therefore was shown no mercy? As Not Henry said, their leader is not a forgiving person.

Tok'Ra Hostess
May 7th, 2006, 05:55 AM
Another quick question: What, exactly, did Not Henry say to AL about her being savable? I thought Not Henry said that Goodwin had argued in her favor before the leader and that he was perhaps given the chance to bring her back.

As to what Micheal did to AL, even though he said he was sorry, I think he executed her, not merely killed her to clear a path for Not Henry's escape. "I'm sorry" can mean a lot of things; "I'm sorry it had to come to this," or "I'm sorry but you're just not good enough." It doesn't have to mean, "I'm sorry; I know what I'm doing is wrong. I hate myself for doing this." Nor do I think the writers would choose such an easy (IMO, cheesy) plot device.

Just as Boone saw wierd stuff and reacted to it as though it was all real, just as Locke, Charlie, Eko and who knows how many more, so, too, I think Micheal is seeing an unreal scenario but with real consequences.

Primus Commander Woden
May 7th, 2006, 09:10 AM
i like that idea, i truely dont beleive michael wanted to kill anyone he was shaking to much to of had it all planned out, i think he would rather have been on his own and shoot himself and let henry go and make the others go to war with him>..however he really did look suprised to see Libby and didnt want to shoot her...as for AL it is also possible that Michael hasnt realised she was one of the good guys seeing as when he left, she had just shoot Shannon and it is possible he still held resentment against her.....just a thought

TrustNo1
May 8th, 2006, 11:18 AM
It's all the aliens' plan ;)

Jonzey
May 9th, 2006, 06:00 AM
It's all the aliens' plan ;)
You think Michael has fallen to the will of the Ori?

TrustNo1
May 9th, 2006, 07:13 AM
No! I'm not into cross show contamination >.<

Naonak
May 9th, 2006, 10:06 AM
I hope Libby isn't dead - not because I particularly like her (although I don't dislike her), but because I wanna know why she was in the nuthouse!
I think Michael killed Ana-Lucia to try and get the others (no, not those Others) on his side to go and save Walt, by framing Henry Gale and making the Others (yes, those Others) seem more evil. That he shot himself in the shoulder backs this up.

Also, how brilliantly did Terry O'Quinn deliver that line? "I need to tell you something." Brilliant.

PuddleJumper14
May 9th, 2006, 10:31 AM
I think Michael is being controlled by the Others somehow and didn't want to kill anyone but isn't in full control of his actions. My guess is that he's also there to kill Not Henry.
It would suck if Libby dies. Kind of weird she's the only one that we haven't seen a flashback for.
Laura

Morbo
May 9th, 2006, 02:22 PM
read for info about why michael did what he did
read it on another forum this morning - something to the effect of michael did meet up with the others, and was able to meet with Walt for 3 Minutes (title of upcoming episode), and in exchange, the others instructed michael to free their trapped prisoner (gale).

Tiret
May 12th, 2006, 09:59 PM
Michael, Michael, why did you have to go into the jungle alone? Didn't you understand that you were being manipulated? Don't you understand that you're still being manipulated? Just look what you've done! :(

Yikes! Wow, what a shocking episode! They killed nice Libby! And Ana, I'm gonna miss Ana. She provided a good balance to some of the other characters. I wondered when they were going to bring Michael back to wreak some mayhem...I mean, he was obviously going to be compromised. I'm really not sure whether or not to call it brainwashing, per se...at least, it's probably not like most brainwashing on Stargate. Meaning, the controls on Michael are probably not as technologically-based as they generally are on SG. But who can say? But it does take a lot to drive a man like Michael to kill, who is not by nature a killer. Sure he's desperate, afriad, and way out of his league, trying to save his son, but you know the Others also have him convinced of things that aren't so. Than again, strange things are always happening on this island...and it's clear there's some powerful influences running rampant. So Michael may very well feel awful for what he's done...but he's in a very twisted state...and let's face it, he's in trouble with his own side, now. There's no going back. *shudder*

Oh, and I definitely think Not-Henry is NOT the leader of the others. In fact, the fact that he's one of the lower-downs shows you just how diabolical the higher-ups must be! Seriously, I really don't think that this big leader guy goes out on these little missions himself. He sends other people out. And I would be rather disappointed if Not-Henry was the leader. I'd have to call him a pretty pathetic diablolical cult leader to get himself caught by the French lady, traipsing through the jungle all alone. Naw, the Losties aren't that lucky. They didn't catch themselves a leader...they only caught a rat. This guy they tortured and nearly killed was considered quite 'expendible' by his own side.

Metarock Sam
August 30th, 2006, 02:11 AM
Micheal whats wrong with youi !!!!! thats literraly what i shouted after watching that episode last nighT !!!
i hope Libby isnt dead because we have still got to see how she got in the institute and she is the only main character noyt toi have been seen in flashback (unless you count the end of 'Dave' where i guess it is from Libby's P.O.V.
and whoa Jack and Claire are brother and sister !?!?!? didnt see that one coming!!!
I agree with the theory aboiut michael seeing Walt for 3 minutes but I really hope Libby does surivive because she was holding blankets after all !!!
I give the episode 3 out of 5 and the ending 5out of 5. I cant wait till next week !!! I just cant !!!

Catysg1
August 30th, 2006, 06:44 AM
May be, the blanket that Libby was carrying was bullet proof?!!!
it's true that it would have been nice to see a bit more of Libby in flashbacks as I didn't seem to warm up to her because I didn't really know her . I didn't understand what her character could bring to the show or the story .
On the other hand , Ana Lucia was a very interesting character . I liked her because she was a strong woman with really bad memories from her past and we got to see that . I also thought she was kind hearted and cared about nice people . I really liked the little scene she had with Sawyer . They had great chemistry together . ..would have been nice to carry on watching the banter between her and Sawyer .

Anyway , it was a great episode and obvioulsy when Henry said to Ana that she could not be changed , I thought straight away that Michael had been changed and brainwashed by the others .

Caty :)

Aurum
August 30th, 2006, 07:29 AM
Micheal whats wrong with youi !!!!! thats literraly what i shouted after watching that episode last nighT !!!
i hope Libby isnt dead because we have still got to see how she got in the institute and she is the only main character noyt toi have been seen in flashback (unless you count the end of 'Dave' where i guess it is from Libby's P.O.V.
and whoa Jack and Claire are brother and sister !?!?!? didnt see that one coming!!!
I agree with the theory aboiut michael seeing Walt for 3 minutes but I really hope Libby does surivive because she was holding blankets after all !!!
I give the episode 3 out of 5 and the ending 5out of 5. I cant wait till next week !!! I just cant !!!

Well, it's not confirmed fact that Jack and Claire are half-brother and sister, but we can easily draw our conclusions ;).

Metarock Sam
August 30th, 2006, 11:07 AM
well it is very highly probable and all the various leads point in that direction.
But man im still in shock and in annyance that our wonderul freind E4 and Channel 4 have decided to get rid of the next time on Lost previews !!! damn them !!!

Catysg1
August 31st, 2006, 06:23 AM
well it is very highly probable and all the various leads point in that direction.
But man im still in shock and in annyance that our wonderul freind E4 and Channel 4 have decided to get rid of the next time on Lost previews !!! damn them !!!

What do you mean ?!!

Caty :)

Catysg1
August 31st, 2006, 06:32 AM
read for info about why michael did what he did
read it on another forum this morning - something to the effect of michael did meet up with the others, and was able to meet with Walt for 3 Minutes (title of upcoming episode), and in exchange, the others instructed michael to free their trapped prisoner (gale).


Yes , but he didn't have to shoot them where he shot them . He could have just headed for the arms or the legs ...or even tie them up on the chairs ..He had the gun , so he was in control anyway . It could still have given him the time to free Henry just by tying both of them on a chair or free henry from the cell and put Ana and Libby in there . I understand that he is messed up but he didn't have to kill them in cold blood . He is a cold blooded killer now .Me think that TPTB wanted to get rid of the 2 actresses and did it that way for that reason .

It's a real shame that they got rid of Ana Lucia and Libby so early in the show to be honest but I'm sure they have good reasons for doing so .I have read about Michelle Rodriguez and her little incident . What a stupid girl she was .!!

Caty :)

Catysg1
August 31st, 2006, 06:38 AM
Well, it's not confirmed fact that Jack and Claire are half-brother and sister, but we can easily draw our conclusions ;).

I never thought of that in the episode ?!! I didn't think that girl looked like anyone we knew already . I mean did he actually called her by a name ?!! because otherwise I don't see why you all think that Claire could be Jack's sister .!!!! We don't even know who is Claire's father and mother .
It was nice to know that Ana and Jack's dad knew each other but now she will never be able to tell him and he will never know because his dad is dead . Shame that little story would have been great to explore .!!

Caty :)

Metarock Sam
August 31st, 2006, 10:26 AM
What do you mean ?!!

Caty :)

I was talking about the whole Jack and Claire brother/sister thing

Aurum
August 31st, 2006, 12:19 PM
I never thought of that in the episode ?!! I didn't think that girl looked like anyone we knew already . I mean did he actually called her by a name ?!! because otherwise I don't see why you all think that Claire could be Jack's sister .!!!! We don't even know who is Claire's father and mother .

Caty :)

Oh, no, I don't think the woman at the house was Claire, but perhaps her mother/relative/friend. When Christian yelled "I want to see my daughter!" to a blonde australian woman, the first thought my mind jumped to was "Omg, they're talking about Claire!". Of course it's completely possible that I'm completely wrong, but I think it would be cool if Jack and Claire were infact related. And knowing Christian, it wouldn't be surprising that he had an affair.

thistledown
September 17th, 2006, 08:47 PM
I'm rather late to this, and forgive me if has been mentioned before but...

Isn't this the second episode that mentioned that Jack's father was missing his wallet when his body was found? The fact that it has now been mentioned twice seems significant to me.

Did I miss something? Did the show explain what happened to his wallet?
It's a small thing and perhaps insignificant, but perhaps not.

:)
AT

Black_Sheep
August 19th, 2008, 05:10 PM
I never liked Jack. The other characters were much more interesting. :P

Jacquelyn
August 16th, 2011, 11:41 AM
I think the others made a deal with him, if he killed her he would get his son back, or at least get to see him, i think the others wanted her dead because she had killed two of them, also it prob means Echo and Charlie might be in trouble as they have killed some of the others, also did anyone see the clip for the next episode, all im saying in Mr Echo.

Yea that's what I was thinking...
But what I don't get is: Why her? Why do they want AL dead? I mean is it because she killed 2 of the Others??

I totally was ok with the part with Ana Lucia and Sawyer ;)
But I HATED when AL and Libby died! :(