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jash
April 6th, 2006, 08:07 PM
The halogram lady said the Ancients met an enemy that rivaled them in whatever when they arrived in the peg gal. First we thought it was the Wraith but they don't rival them in tech or anything else, they only out number them. Then we will meet the Asurans, but they were not there before the Ancients. Is this enemy still out there waiting to attack again?

Pharaoh Atem
April 6th, 2006, 08:11 PM
knowing our luck lately YES

metroid
April 6th, 2006, 10:43 PM
1. They NEVER said they encountered the enemy when they arrived, they simply said they came upon a world where a dark enemy slept (the wraith)
2. The Asurans were created by the ancients so they are most likely NOT the threat they were facing.
3. The writers are introducing the Asurans as the new enemy, i highly doubt they will encounter another different enemy.

Avatar28
April 6th, 2006, 11:13 PM
The asurans were created to fight the wraith. The writers have, effectively, reintroduced the replicators in a way.

Blitz
April 7th, 2006, 03:06 AM
The Wraith, in my opinion rival and exceed the Atlantians by far in their 'power'.

Atlantians could heal each other....maybe some telekenisis?
The Wraith can heal themselves, possibly heal each other: weve never seen.
They work in a psychic space mentally linking with each other.
They have telekentic powers (didnt that guy Wraith through sumner around with a flick of his hand in Rising? or did he whack him?)

Blitz

gkyun
April 7th, 2006, 07:42 AM
The asurans were created to fight the wraith. The writers have, effectively, reintroduced the replicators in a way.
Plus the Ancients have/had the means to destroy the replicators (New order, Reckoning). So I think the Wraith were indeed the "enemy" the hologram mentioned, at least for the time being.

Happy_Gate
April 7th, 2006, 08:13 AM
Plus the Ancients have/had the means to destroy the replicators (New order, Reckoning). So I think the Wraith were indeed the "enemy" the hologram mentioned, at least for the time being.
I agree. I think the writers put that in as an afterthought. IMO, wraith do not have powers rivalling ancients.

Avatar28
April 7th, 2006, 08:20 AM
Except that the wraith DO rival the ancients. They were, after all, able to defeat them enough to force them to retreat from the galaxy. I think that's a victory by any standards. So obviously they DO rival them to that degree at the least.

Wraith_Hunter
April 7th, 2006, 08:23 AM
The halogram lady said the Ancients met an enemy that rivaled them in whatever when they arrived in the peg gal. First we thought it was the Wraith but they don't rival them in tech or anything else, they only out number them. Then we will meet the Asurans, but they were not there before the Ancients. Is this enemy still out there waiting to attack again?

First it didn't say that, it simply said that they encountered them one day on a dark world.

Then it said about their terrible weapons & as a last resort, they were forced to submerge the city.

Jump to 'Before I Sleep', they told me of beings called Wraiths, whose power & technology rivalled their own. It was Wraith Darts that attacked the TJ, it was the Wraith who were in orbit bombarding the city. Notice they din't refer to any other enemy, just the Wraith.

Rivalled doesn't mean that they were equal, somebody could rival me for a position in a new job, but I still may have superior technical skills compared to them etc. They are very advanced, not as advanced as the Ancients technology wise, but not that far off either. When fighting someone in a war, it doesn't matter how fast the ships are, how good you can build things, how great medcial equipment you have & all the rest. It's simpy to do with the weapons that your enemy has. As seen in numerous eps, they have very advanced & powerful weapons that can drain ZPM's in a matter of days.

Also, it was a dark world where they first encountered the Wraith in 'Rising'.

Which also was the pilot episode where this new enemy was introduced, which seems to indicate strongly that's what the hologram was referring to.

Then for thew Wraith powers, they have psychic abilities among themselves as well as victims or enemies, tremendous strength, can be immortal as long as they feed, which means they'd never die as long as they ate regularly. They can take tremendous amounts of physical injury without dying. Plus I'd probably bet that the Queens have some sort of telekinesis abilities, which would allow them to move phycial objects without touch etc.

So in conclusion: all that above, proves that they do rival the Lantians in power, technology isn't so equal, but offensive wise, they are superior. So in war, that's all that counts in the long run. Therefore being tht they've been in Pegasus for a few years now, they haven't heard any mention from themselves or anyone else about a terrible unknown enemy. Anything that they have, it's always been about the Wraith as they main enemy. The Asurans are being brought in as another new enemy, however they were created after the Wraith & their original purpose was to destroy them.

That in itself should be enough proof, why did the Ancients create a race to wipe out the Wraith, if they weren't the main enemy in the galaxy. Overall, there is not one shred of evidence at all, to say anything that there is a major unknown enemy that runs Pegasus, yet nobody has ever said anything regarding them or anything to even reference their existence.

Hence the Wraith are the main bad guys, the ones that brought the Lantians to their knees, which was said exclusively by a Wraith Queen in 'Allies'. It's been well over 2 years & now in the third they are bringing in the Asurans as another enemy, who have a plan to wipe out the Wraith. Therefore, since this subject has been brough up time & time again, it will never be settled. Even when Atlantis ends, the Wraith will have been shown to be the only real enemy in the show's history, but some will still say that they were pulling the strings in the background & if they had made one last season, the writers will have brought them in! Long story, this debate (shouldn't even continually be debated because there is nothing to even hint at another enemy.) will never be settled. A couple weeks from now, there will be another thread on the same subject again.

Prior_of_the_Ori
April 8th, 2006, 07:23 AM
Yeah its likely it was the Wraith who were the enemy that defeated the Lantians as Wraith Hunter said.

From the spoilers it seems that the Lantians were a lot more harsh on the Asurans as its mentioned that the Lantians defeated them and thought they were destroyed (I think) but the Wraith eventually defeated them. Kind of funny how the Lantians created a weapon to fight the wraith but end up trying to destroy it because it could become a menace like the wraith while the wraith continue in taking over the pegasus galaxy.

Gaeth
April 8th, 2006, 10:18 AM
First it didn't say that, it simply said that they encountered them one day on a dark world.


Jump to 'Before I Sleep', they told me of beings called Wraiths, whose power & technology rivalled their own. It was Wraith Darts that attacked the TJ, it was the Wraith who were in orbit bombarding the city. Notice they din't refer to any other enemy, just the Wraith.

Rivalled doesn't mean that they were equal, somebody could rival me for a position in a new job, but I still may have superior technical skills compared to them etc. They are very advanced, not as advanced as the Ancients technology wise, but not that far off either. When fighting someone in a war, it doesn't matter how fast the ships are, how good you can build things, how great medcial equipment you have & all the rest. It's simpy to do with the weapons that your enemy has. As seen in numerous eps, they have very advanced & powerful weapons that can drain ZPM's in a matter of days.

Also, it was a dark world where they first encountered the Wraith in 'Rising'.

Which also was the pilot episode where this new enemy was introduced, which seems to indicate strongly that's what the hologram was referring to.

Then for thew Wraith powers, they have psychic abilities among themselves as well as victims or enemies, tremendous strength, can be immortal as long as they feed, which means they'd never die as long as they ate regularly. They can take tremendous amounts of physical injury without dying. Plus I'd probably bet that the Queens have some sort of telekinesis abilities, which would allow them to move phycial objects without touch etc.

So in conclusion: all that above, proves that they do rival the Lantians in power, technology isn't so equal, but offensive wise, they are superior. So in war, that's all that counts in the long run. Therefore being tht they've been in Pegasus for a few years now, they haven't heard any mention from themselves or anyone else about a terrible unknown enemy. Anything that they have, it's always been about the Wraith as they main enemy. The Asurans are being brought in as another new enemy, however they were created after the Wraith & their original purpose was to destroy them.

That in itself should be enough proof, why did the Ancients create a race to wipe out the Wraith, if they weren't the main enemy in the galaxy. Overall, there is not one shred of evidence at all, to say anything that there is a major unknown enemy that runs Pegasus, yet nobody has ever said anything regarding them or anything to even reference their existence.

Hence the Wraith are the main bad guys, the ones that brought the Lantians to their knees, which was said exclusively by a Wraith Queen in 'Allies'. It's been well over 2 years & now in the third they are bringing in the Asurans as another enemy, who have a plan to wipe out the Wraith. Therefore, since this subject has been brough up time & time again, it will never be settled. Even when Atlantis ends, the Wraith will have been shown to be the only real enemy in the show's history, but some will still say that they were pulling the strings in the background & if they had made one last season, the writers will have brought them in! Long story, this debate (shouldn't even continually be debated because there is nothing to even hint at another enemy.) will never be settled. A couple weeks from now, there will be another thread on the same subject again.

Main Entry: 1ri•val
Pronunciation: 'rI-v&l
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle French or Latin; Middle French, from Latin rivalis one using the same stream as another, rival in love, from rivalis of a stream, from rivus stream -- more at RUN
1 a : one of two or more striving to reach or obtain something that only one can possess b : one striving for competitive advantage
2 obsolete : COMPANION, ASSOCIATE
3 : one that equals another in desired qualities : PEER

First off rival does mean equal, or at least near equal. There have been statements of Wraith technology rivaling and not rivaling Ancient tech. On the pro-rival side there are the statements in ‘Before I sleep’, and of course the first episode with the hologram. On the non-rival side, there are statements like McKay’s in ‘The Siege part 1’. Ancient weapons are more powerful than the Wraith’s: that old satellite in ‘The Siege part 1’ cut through the hive ship easily. According to McKay (in that episode) it could’ve destroyed all three of the hive ships. Plus that satellite was derelict for 10,000 years and jury rigged into working just before the battle. Another example is when Shepard severely damaged a Wraith cruiser with a single drone from a barely working jumper. We know this Ancient weapon technology was more effective that the Wraith’s on the ’Siege Part 2’, Shepard said the Ancient’s could win every battle but kept losing the war. This is how the Wraith work, they’re like the bugs they evolved from: they infest, they retreat, they breed, and they keep coming back. This issue has been brought up on previous threads on this subject.

It was on the ‘Siege Part 3’ that the Wraith were going to drain a ZPM in a matter of days. This was because they Earth expedition had depleted their supply of drones. This scenario points again to the Wraith strategy: attrition.

The message from the hologram is about the Wraith, but the wording of it does leave it open for it to be about someone else. You can’t come upon a darkened world where an enemy slept/slumbered unless they were there before you got there. The message could just mean they developed after the Ancients got there, and they noticed them when they came upon the darkened world. But, it is an odd way to word it. Until the ‘Hot Zone’ episode that wouldn’t carry any significance. When that episode aired we found there was another enemy out there. Until the spoiler came out no viewer would have any way of knowing whether the new enemy used the nano-virus as a tool, or if they were the nano-virus. McKay said it wasn’t Wraith and didn’t think it was Ancient, and it was different from other Ancient tech. The episode ‘Hot Zone’ clearly spelled out a new enemy, but didn’t say what or who it was. You would have to believe that otherwise ‘Hot Zone’ becomes meaningless gibberish. Just because there is another enemy out there doesn’t mean they are pulling the strings.

As I have discussed with you before, Wraith Hunter, there is no “evidence” in a TV show, there is foreshadowing and exposition. Any good writer wants to keep the audience guessing, it heightens the interest. Let’s not forget this is a TV show and they can get away with any inconsistencies that do or do not spring up.

As far as Wraith abilities, they have telepathy, great strength, and lifedraining which grants regeneration. The female Wraith seem to have stronger telepathy than the males, as they can make humans do things like kneeling (Rising Part 2, The Lost Boys). The Wraith Michael demonstrated that ability on Teyla so males might have it too. I don’t know of any episode where the Wraith demonstrated telekinesis. The Ancients have abilities of telekinesis (Prototype), telepathy (Frozen), regeneration (Prototype, Frozen), healing of others (Frozen, Lost City part 2), regeneration (Frozen), pyrokinetics (Prototype) (which is related to telekinesis), influence over electro-magnetic fields and electronic devices (also related to telekinesis) (Rite of Passage) occasional foresight (Prophecy). All Ancients as individuals might not have had all these abilities, but as a race they did which makes them very powerful. But the level of power isn’t always what is important; the nature of the power can be more valuable. Wraith tech (including weapons) was inferior, but much of it is organic and like the Wraith it repairs and heals. The Wraith natural abilities aren’t as powerful (at least compared to the Ancients as a whole), but as their enemies grow weaker they grow stronger; they use their enemies’ strength against them.

So in conclusion, no the Wraith did not rival the Ancients in their technology, or their raw abilities. Yes, there are statements in the show they say they do rival each other, and there are episodes that say they don’t. The demonstrations of the technology show that the Ancients had better technology, including weapons. What the Wraith had was strategy, which was where they were superior. They just had to chip away at the Ancients defense, and that is how they won.

Prior_of_the_Ori
April 8th, 2006, 04:29 PM
So in conclusion, no the Wraith did not rival the Ancients in their technology, or their raw abilities. Yes, there are statements in the show they say they do rival each other, and there are episodes that say they don’t. The demonstrations of the technology show that the Ancients had better technology, including weapons. What the Wraith had was strategy, which was where they were superior. They just had to chip away at the Ancients defense, and that is how they won.

Also combined with the fact that the Wraith had a much bigger population then the Lantians and used numbers to overwhelm them.

MarshAngel
April 8th, 2006, 06:31 PM
Main Entry: 1ri•val
Pronunciation: 'rI-v&l
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle French or Latin; Middle French, from Latin rivalis one using the same stream as another, rival in love, from rivalis of a stream, from rivus stream -- more at RUN
1 a : one of two or more striving to reach or obtain something that only one can possess b : one striving for competitive advantage
2 obsolete : COMPANION, ASSOCIATE
3 : one that equals another in desired qualities : PEER

I think it's a mistake to base an entire argument solely on a single dictionary definition. Especially when another dictionary defines it differently by the use of a single extra word.


1.) One who attempts to equal or surpass another, or who pursues the same object as another; a competitor.
2.) One that equals or almost equals another in a particular respect.



First off rival does mean equal, or at least near equal.

It doesn't mean equal. Rivalry refers to the competition under which one attempts to surpass or equal, which may result in success or failure.

Clearly, the wraith do not surpass the Ancients technologically, but it's not for lack of trying. Given the information at hand, in three galaxies so far we've heard of no one else as technologically advanced as the Ancients were several million years ago. But if the Wraith were as advanced as they are now, ten thousand years ago, (and millions of years after the Ancients left the milky way for a seemingly empty galaxy), then chances are high that the Wraith were the only extremely advanced race the ancients came across with even the potential to equal or surpass them.

We don't know how much butt the ancients have had to kick over the years, but if the last butt they attempted to kick, kicked them back, I believe it's safe to say they were rivaled.


Yes, there are statements in the show they say they do rival each other....
These would be the most relevant. The fact that they said so is fact until the writers change their mind.



...and there are episodes that say they don’t.
perhaps more appropriate would be: episodes that suggest they dont, which can be chalked up to deliberate attempts to muddle the issue, perceptions not shared by the writers, and (questionable) writing decisions which pave the way for us beating them because if they were truly superior there would be no chance.


The demonstrations of the technology show that the Ancients had better technology, including weapons. What the Wraith had was strategy, which was where they were superior. They just had to chip away at the Ancients defense, and that is how they won.

Absolutely true but a comparison is necessary. If every alien you came across were approximately at our technological level and suddenly you came across someone on the level of the Goauld, Aschen etc. who then tried to kill you, you'd be surprised enough to make note of the fact that, hey, there's a possibility I could get my butt kicked, superior tech or no. Hence, they are rivaled, just enough to make a difference.

The better question is, if the Wraith had slightly less advanced technology and the same or more numbers would the Ancients still have lost? Numbers may have tipped them over the edge but the tech had to be good enough in the first place to make a dent.

the fifth man
April 8th, 2006, 10:43 PM
The asurans were created to fight the wraith. The writers have, effectively, reintroduced the replicators in a way.

And that works for me.:) I'm interested in seeing how TPTB portray this new enemy. Will they be just like the Replicators, or something different?

JanusAncient
April 8th, 2006, 10:58 PM
I know the Ancients were arrogant, but I still, for the life of me, cannot figure out how the Wraith got so powerful in the first place. Still, though when it comes to the Asurans, it says that very powerful nanites were created, capable of attacking the Wraith at a cellular level. They evolved, and eventually became human formed machines. Here's my question, if they were created to fight the Wraith, when was this, was it early on after the great battle, the Ancient hologram spoke of, because if it wasn't, then the Ancients were fighting a war on two fronts. But, I don't think it was numbers, as in Ancients vs. Wraith, I believe it was more a matter of weapons, ships, drones, against Wraith firepower.

freyr's mother
April 8th, 2006, 11:26 PM
Why else would they introduce the wraith and the hologram in the same episode if they didn't intend to introduce the main enemy right away?

Gaeth
April 11th, 2006, 05:02 PM
I think it's a mistake to base an entire argument solely on a single dictionary definition. Especially when another dictionary defines it differently by the use of a single extra word.

It doesn't mean equal. Rivalry refers to the competition under which one attempts to surpass or equal, which may result in success or failure.



The entire argument is not based on a single dictionary definition. This becomes quite clear if you read the examples listed in my post. The purpose of posting a quote from a dictionary is merely to show that rival can mean equal (from webster.com if you were wondering) and I also said it means near equal too. Rival does mean equal, but not exclusively. I never said it was exclusive. In fact the bulk of my post regarding the term rival when used in Atlantis was that there were statements going both ways on Wraith tech/power equaling or not equaling the Ancients. Basically -from the examples listed previously- Wraith tech did not rival/equal the Ancients, but Wraith numbers and vampirism did rival/equal the Ancients in terms of power.


Clearly, the wraith do not surpass the Ancients technologically, but it's not for lack of trying. Given the information at hand, in three galaxies so far we've heard of no one else as technologically advanced as the Ancients were several million years ago. But if the Wraith were as advanced as they are now, ten thousand years ago, (and millions of years after the Ancients left the milky way for a seemingly empty galaxy), then chances are high that the Wraith were the only extremely advanced race the ancients came across with even the potential to equal or surpass them.

Yes, one of the repeating themes of Stargate, even back to SG-1, is the value of simplicity. Like when Col. O’Neill would find simple solutions to complex problems. It’s very possible the Ancients could have stagnated somewhat before they met the Wraith, because they were so advanced and lacked challenging opponents for so long. Let’s not forget the Ori too; they tried to destroy the Ancients which lead to them leaving their home galaxy. They might have been responsible for them leaving the Milky Way because of the plague.


perhaps more appropriate would be: episodes that suggest they dont, which can be chalked up to deliberate attempts to muddle the issue, perceptions not shared by the writers, and (questionable) writing decisions which pave the way for us beating them because if they were truly superior there would be no chance.

The issue is not being muddled: technology (especially in a Sci-Fi show) is a critical factor in demonstrating power in general. The show’s statements about technology are as relevant as the statements on ‘Before I Sleep’ and ’Rising 1’.

The purpose of my post was to show: 1) Rivaled does mean equal or near equal, among other things, and that statements on the show demonstrated rivaled as equaled and not equal. I never at any time stated that the Wraith weren’t competing with the Ancients.

2) The Wraith tech (including the weapons) were inferior to the Ancients, and that the Wraith won because of numbers and their ability to grow stronger directly in proportion to their enemy growing weaker via vampirism.

3) That because of the existence of an (at the time) unspecified new enemy that was revealed in the ‘Hot Zone’ episode the odd wording of the hologram message could take on new implications.


Absolutely true but a comparison is necessary. If every alien you came across were approximately at our technological level and suddenly you came across someone on the level of the Goauld, Aschen etc. who then tried to kill you, you'd be surprised enough to make note of the fact that, hey, there's a possibility I could get my butt kicked, superior tech or no. Hence, they are rivaled, just enough to make a difference.

The better question is, if the Wraith had slightly less advanced technology and the same or more numbers would the Ancients still have lost? Numbers may have tipped them over the edge but the tech had to be good enough in the first place to make a dent.

My post said that they didn’t rival (the version of rival that means equal) the Ancients in terms of technology. Once more, I said that the Wraith had the upper hand in other areas: numbers, vampirism, self-healing biotech ships. In this not only rivaled (the rival that means equal again) the Ancients, they were actually better at it. I never said they didn’t compete (or the rival that doesn’t mean equal) for Pegasus.

As for your question: I never said the Wraith weren’t advanced, they certainly are. They’re also very good villains, they’re like Morlocks, Drow, and Goa’uld wrapped in one with a black metal aesthetic sense. Plus the way they kill people is just creepy. I don’t know if the Wraith could have one with less numbers, they must have some way of reproducing more quickly. They have a very long life span and can retreat from battle and heal, both individually and their ships. So they may have won even if there were less of them.

vaberella
April 11th, 2006, 05:14 PM
1. They NEVER said they encountered the enemy when they arrived, they simply said they came upon a world where a dark enemy slept (the wraith)
2. The Asurans were created by the ancients so they are most likely NOT the threat they were facing.
3. The writers are introducing the Asurans as the new enemy, i highly doubt they will encounter another different enemy.
Ho ho ho....how do we know the wraith were the one's sleeping...The wraith came into existence through evolution..it could be the iratus bug....or it could be something all together different.

There is still a strong possiblity that there is a stronger enemy lurking out there that we are still unaware of. There has been statements made in interviews to state that there are other enemies we'll meet. Although as of now it's been statd that the Wraith will be the largest we'll encounter...those things are always changing as scripts are written and statements could be said to tease.


The asurans were created to fight the wraith. The writers have, effectively, reintroduced the replicators in a way.

The Asuran's weren't created to fight the Wraith...they were rogue Atlantians but we haven't heard anythign else of them being created. They were just Altantians that did not like the methods of the elder Atlantians on Atlantis. I strongly believe that Teyla adn those people like Teyla were created to fight the Wraith by some random other rogue Atlantians..since it was people like Teyla that actually won a battle against the Wraith until they pretty much went mad with their power....

And in Lost boys were told that there could be many more like Teyla running around.


Except that the wraith DO rival the ancients. They were, after all, able to defeat them enough to force them to retreat from the galaxy. I think that's a victory by any standards. So obviously they DO rival them to that degree at the least.

They rival them in one thing mainly...in sheer numbers. It's been stated before on the episode. A lot of them, while the Atlantians were small in number. Weaponry is good, but not when their weaponry is ALMOST as good and they got a huge amount ouf 'dummy' wraith (the ones with the things on their faces) that can fly out and are in high numbers who are willing to die without a problem. That doesn'tn only deplete your resources but is overwhelming.

metroid
April 11th, 2006, 10:43 PM
Ho ho ho....how do we know the wraith were the one's sleeping...The wraith came into existence through evolution..it could be the iratus bug....or it could be something all together different.

If you actually read any of the other posts in this topic...
The Wraith and the hologram were introduced in the same episode for a reason. It has also already been said that the wraith sleep for long periods of time and they all woke up when sheppard killed the queen.



There is still a strong possiblity that there is a stronger enemy lurking out there that we are still unaware of. There has been statements made in interviews to state that there are other enemies we'll meet. Although as of now it's been statd that the Wraith will be the largest we'll encounter...those things are always changing as scripts are written and statements could be said to tease.

Ofcourse there could be more enemies, but i highly doubt that more recurring bad guys will show up.



The Asuran's weren't created to fight the Wraith...they were rogue Atlantians but we haven't heard anythign else of them being created. They were just Altantians that did not like the methods of the elder Atlantians on Atlantis. I strongly believe that Teyla adn those people like Teyla were created to fight the Wraith by some random other rogue Atlantians..since it was people like Teyla that actually won a battle against the Wraith until they pretty much went mad with their power....

And in Lost boys were told that there could be many more like Teyla running around.

Oh my, if you don't actually know what the Asurans are, PLEASE don't spout off with totally random things.

1) we KNOW the Asurans were created to fight the wraith.
2) The Asurans are not rogue Lantians, they are ALOT of nanites put together to create 1 form
3) Teyla's race was created like all other races in Pegasus, they are not special.

So please, don't say things that make no sense.



They rival them in one thing mainly...in sheer numbers. It's been stated before on the episode. A lot of them, while the Atlantians were small in number. Weaponry is good, but not when their weaponry is ALMOST as good and they got a huge amount ouf 'dummy' wraith (the ones with the things on their faces) that can fly out and are in high numbers who are willing to die without a problem. That doesn'tn only deplete your resources but is overwhelming.

The only reason the ancients lost is because they had much greater numbers.
Try imaging about 20-30 hive ships firing upon a single ancient warship, while the warship is much stronger and more advanced, it's shields WILL cave in after awhile.

Avatar28
April 12th, 2006, 12:54 AM
The Asuran's weren't created to fight the Wraith...they were rogue Atlantians but we haven't heard anythign else of them being created. They were just Altantians that did not like the methods of the elder Atlantians on Atlantis. I strongly believe that Teyla adn those people like Teyla were created to fight the Wraith by some random other rogue Atlantians..since it was people like Teyla that actually won a battle against the Wraith until they pretty much went mad with their power....


I really don't know what you're referring to about Teyla. As far as the Asurans go, though, please read the spoilers before making claims like that (if you don't like spoilers you probably wouldn't be in this thread anyways. Here, I'll even provide a link to the spoilers page (http://www.gateworld.net/atlantis/s3/3x2.shtml) for you.


The Asurans, as Niam reveals to Dr. Weir, are not biologically Lantian. They are artificial lifeforms that evolved from a Lantian experiment to create powerful and aggressive nanites to attack the Wraith on a cellular level ("Hot Zone"). But the microscopic creatures came together to form increasingly larger and more complex organisms, eventually imitating their creators to become human in appearance. When the Lantians realized their experiment had gotten out of hand, they attacked this new race with their fleet of warships and nearly wiped them out.

Weir is stunned, and suspects that the Ancient experiment may have been the genesis of the Replicators that SG-1 battled in our own galaxy. Those mechanical beings were created by an android that was invented by a mysterious scientist (SG-1: "Menace") -- possibly one of the Lantians who resettled in the Milky Way galaxy after the war was lost. These Replicators later evolved into human forms, made up of billions of nanites (SG-1: "Unnatural Selection"). Weir also feels compassion for them, despite what they truly are.

Prior_of_the_Ori
April 12th, 2006, 06:48 AM
Not sure if he means Teyla's race as in Athosians or Teyla's race as in her ancestors who were genetically altered by the Wraith. If its the former then as has been said they came about as the rest of the humans in the pegasus galaxy. If the latter well that was just a wraith experiment to make their food more compatable. Nothing more nothing less.

I think the hologram was talking about the Wraith but i also think there was some....indecision on how to create the Wraith. Initially they came across as very powerful in many ways and possibly older then the Ancients but then they revised it saying they were just an unexpected evolution that occured after the Lanteans arrived in the Pegasus galaxy. Talking about the writers and stuff not in story stuff there.

Also not sure but anyone remember what Ronan said back when Sheppard was mutating into a Wraith? They were on the planet of the Iratus bugs and Ronan said something like that the Iratus bug is deadly but there are other deadly predators.

Excellion_razor
April 12th, 2006, 09:13 AM
The halogram lady said the Ancients met an enemy that rivaled them in whatever when they arrived in the peg gal. First we thought it was the Wraith but they don't rival them in tech or anything else, they only out number them. Then we will meet the Asurans, but they were not there before the Ancients. Is this enemy still out there waiting to attack again?


As the seasons continue to mount they will introduce new enemys. However the main enemy will be the Wraith. In addition, the Wraith are decendants of Ancients or humans that the Lantians created when thay arrived in the Pegasus galaxy. These Ancients/humans came into contact with the Aradias bug(not sure on spelling) which attacked that individuals in question and infected them creating a new spp. (Wraith). The newly created Wraith then probably used knowledge from their past or stole tech from other races like the Gould (sp) did. Their race probably continued to evolve for hundreds/thousands of yrs bfr they fought the Ancients in the war. If the Ancients seeded all human life in the Pegasus like the show has led us to believe, there is no way that the Wraith have the same level of technological advancemnet that the Ancients did. The Ancients traveled to two galaxies that we know of. It is possible that the traveled and seeded several more. Their technolocigal advancement is millions of yrs ahead of every other race we have been introduced to other than the Ori.

metroid
April 12th, 2006, 10:15 AM
As the seasons continue to mount they will introduce new enemys. However the main enemy will be the Wraith. In addition, the Wraith are decendants of Ancients or humans that the Lantians created when thay arrived in the Pegasus galaxy. These Ancients/humans came into contact with the Aradias bug(not sure on spelling) which attacked that individuals in question and infected them creating a new spp. (Wraith). The newly created Wraith then probably used knowledge from their past or stole tech from other races like the Gould (sp) did. Their race probably continued to evolve for hundreds/thousands of yrs bfr they fought the Ancients in the war. If the Ancients seeded all human life in the Pegasus like the show has led us to believe, there is no way that the Wraith have the same level of technological advancemnet that the Ancients did. The Ancients traveled to two galaxies that we know of. It is possible that the traveled and seeded several more. Their technolocigal advancement is millions of yrs ahead of every other race we have been introduced to other than the Ori.

It was never, i repeat never said that the Wraith were as advanced as the ancients technology wise. They even went out of their way to state that the ancient ships are stronger.

Aither
April 12th, 2006, 10:16 AM
What the hologram said :

"In our overconfidence we weren’t prepared, and outnumbered."
"The enemy fed upon the defenseless human worlds like a great scourge"
"This city’s great shield was powerful enough to withstand their terrible weapons, but here we were besieged for many years."
"In an effort to save the last of our kind, we submerged our great city into the ocean."

There is no doubt. The enemy whom she spoke about was the Wraith.

Excellion_razor
April 12th, 2006, 11:05 AM
It was never, i repeat never said that the Wraith were as advanced as the ancients technology wise. They even went out of their way to state that the ancient ships are stronger.


I agree. Sorry if my post led you to believe that I believe their tech is on the same level. In fact, if you read my post carefully you will see that I stated that the Wraith evolved from the bug and either Ancients/human. So therefore the Wraiths tech is Millions of years behind.