Have the F-302s upgraded their engines?

[Avatar28]

I originally posted this in another thread but I figured it really deserved it's own post. So how about it, do the F-302s have new engines, possibly the ion engines from the Hebredians?

Look at this image. It's of the F-302 in intruder.



Now they are WAY out of any planet's atmosphere in interplanetary space. So there's no way even an aerospike jet engine will work. They still require SOME atmosphere to get oxygen from. Yet the "conventional" engines are still lit up. Add to that the fact that a solid rocket is not throttleable. You light it and it burns until it goes out. You can't slow it down or stop it (and it wasn't lit in this shot in any case). If they were using just that, no way could they pull the moves they do out there.

Along the same lines look at Ethon


Here the solid rocket shows to be ignited. However you also have the glow from the main engines as well. Again, the only way they could possibly be burning is if they carried their own oxygen, which cuts into fuel/weapons storage and makes for a BIG boom if something goes wrong. I just don't see them putting LOX on a fighter craft if at all avoidable. Not to mention it would probably burn through it's limited supply really quickly..


And then there's a glow in the engines in this picture as well, also from Ethon.


And lastly just for grins, let's look at a shot of a ship with the Hebredian ion engines from Space Race. Looks nagglingly familiar. Now where else have I seen glows like that?

[aAnubiSs]

Ever heard of liquid rocket fuel? I VERY much doubt they have ion drives on either the 303, 304 or the 302.

[LOKI LOKI]

I doubt it but they need new engines as the limited fuel thing sucks! i mean how much fuel do a squadron of 8 use doing regular sorties and how much storage space would that take up on the daedalus again major fire hazard

[Hatcheter]

There are already other threads on this topic. A search would easily dig them up.

[IcyNeko]

Fuel expenditure in space is a lot less, since you don't have to contend with air friction and gravity. They only have to fire their engines a fraction of the time. So fuel expenditure is a whole lot less in space. Of course, for vector alteration, it requires a jolt here and there, but still...not nearly as expensive as it is in an atmosphere.

[Avatar28]

Yes, except that the F302s also have to be able to operate between both.

[Ancient_Chemist]

I thought the F302 were using a naquadria based engine that Carter and Area 51's R&D developed after they met Jonas. Assuming that they would still be using this system of energy propulsion because it would be a nearly endless supply as long as the naquadria didnt reach critical mass. At which we know that it becomes explosively unstable.

[Avatar28]

The naquadria powerplant was for it's hyperdrive. Origiinally it used two aerospike engines and had a solid rocket booster in the middle for orbital runs. But I think it was also originally intended as a ground based interceptor that would only need to run up to suborbital altitudes. Once the need arose for it to fly truly up in outer space I think they would have had to upgrade the engines to something else. Considering the evidence I've shown, I'm pretty convinced that they're now using the ion propulsion from the Hebredians.

[Jarnin]

The naquadria powerplant was for it's hyperdrive. Origiinally it used two aerospike engines and had a solid rocket booster in the middle for orbital runs. But I think it was also originally intended as a ground based interceptor that would only need to run up to suborbital altitudes.

It has 2 turbojet engines and 2 modified aerospike engines that share the same exhaust ports. The turbojets are for low atmospheric flight, the aerospikes kick in at high altitudes. Once the atmosphere is too thin for the aerospikes, the rocket booster kicks in to push it into orbit. After it's in orbit, the aerospikes could be supplied with an oxydizer so they could be used to provide a means of propulsion in space.

The key to it all working still relies on science-fiction though; without the inertial dampeners/compensators, the F-302 would need external tanks and boosters just like the space shuttle does. With its mass reduced by 90%, it requires about 90% less fuel, and only enough onboard oxydizer to last it for any maneuvering it might need to perform.

Once the need arose for it to fly truly up in outer space I think they would have had to upgrade the engines to something else.

If you mean leaving Earth's orbit, I'd agree with you. The F-302 is an aerospace orbiter, like the space shuttle. The difference is that it's also designed to return to the atmosphere under power, where the shuttle glides in because it uses all it's fuel to get into orbit.

It's not designed for interplanetary travel. The hyperdrive it has was intended to get it to orbit around planets in other solar systems, but the naquadria reactor proved to be too unstable to make long distance hyperspace travel reliable.
However, the hyperdrive might be capable of doing short distance hops to other planets in our solar system, which means you wouldn't need a new interplanetary propulsion system.

Considering the evidence I've shown, I'm pretty convinced that they're now using the ion propulsion from the Hebredians.

You're basing your arguements on the whims of the special effects team? Personally, I'd go with what the writers have provided us, not the guys who make pretty special effects.

[gkyun]

IMO the 302s are also using anti-grav. generators in conjunction with the engines you guys mentioned.

Spoiler:

This is evident in Allies as the 302s glided pretty smoothly while escorting the Wraith shuttle. From what I've seen they flew/glided so slow that no combustion engines would be capable of that.

[Pegasus3c]

Gkyun I agree with you. After all the first engines we got ahold of were Death Glider engines and they really appear to be a gravemetric drive of some sort.

[Jarnin]

IMO the 302s are also using anti-grav. generators in conjunction with the engines you guys mentioned.

Spoiler:

This is evident in Allies as the 302s glided pretty smoothly while escorting the Wraith shuttle. From what I've seen they flew/glided so slow that no combustion engines would be capable of that.

Again, you guys are basing your assumptions on what you see in visual effects, which by no means could be considered "realistic". Visual effects are created by artists; they don't care about the physics behind their art because it's art. It's supposed to be pretty, not realistic.

You're right about the maneuvering in the episode Allies, a normal craft would stall and fall. Except the F-302s have inertial dampeners/compensators, which should allow it to fly at slower speeds without stalling.

If it had "anti-grav. generators", they wouldn't need the other propulsion systems, they could simply use the anti-gravity drive to propel them where ever and however fast they wanted to go.
Death gliders have this form of propulsion, and they don't need all kinds of other engines to get around...

[Daryl Froggy]

I don't think that they have upgraded the F-302's engines but TPTB still haven't told us how the fighters can adjust their throttle in space (I have no canon evidence to support this assumption). So until they do the will still have the four engines first mentioned by Sam on the show.

But I really do hope that they uprgrade the engines so that they don't have to have a rocket engine anymore that is just wasteful.

[gkyun]

Again, you guys are basing your assumptions on what you see in visual effects, which by no means could be considered "realistic". Visual effects are created by artists; they don't care about the physics behind their art because it's art. It's supposed to be pretty, not realistic.

You're right about the maneuvering in the episode Allies, a normal craft would stall and fall. Except the F-302s have inertial dampeners/compensators, which should allow it to fly at slower speeds without stalling.

If it had "anti-grav. generators", they wouldn't need the other propulsion systems, they could simply use the anti-gravity drive to propel them where ever and however fast they wanted to go.
Death gliders have this form of propulsion, and they don't need all kinds of other engines to get around...

Inertial dampeners are for compensating G-force, not for reducing speed.
Al'kesh and Earth ships (Prometheus, Daedalus) have anti-grav. drives, but they also have have impulse engines as well. Though it may be due to their size that anti-grav. drives alone wouldn't be enough.

[ItsDan]

Carter mentioned that the systems onboard reduce the effective mass of the craft, so it takes less thrust to keep them airborne. Combine that with thust vectoring and the Allies scene is easily explainable.