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View Full Version : Would you Be angry if the Wraith turned out tobe ancients gone rouge?



mahram
April 5th, 2006, 04:33 PM
I was just wondering, the biggest mystery of the wraith was that there language was similar to atlantean language, but thousands of years ago. Would you be angry if it just turned out, that the Wraith are atlanteans turned rouge. They wanted to survive the ancient plague by turning themselves into vampires, and the other atlanteans came to stop them.

Dylan Deltoran
April 5th, 2006, 04:44 PM
Wow...that would be weird...but somehow I doubt that's what the wraith are...but I guess I'd be sort of mad because frankly...2 splits in the ancients is enough (Ori and Alterans), we don't need 3...

somethinghuman
April 5th, 2006, 04:53 PM
Yes I would be angry. Everyone's an ancient now days, I am very much over the whole ancient thing. I would like the Wraith to be more three dimensional characters and a whole lot more scary before they become anything else :)

The Prophet
April 5th, 2006, 05:03 PM
Wow...that would be weird...but somehow I doubt that's what the wraith are...but I guess I'd be sort of mad because frankly...2 splits in the ancients is enough (Ori and Alterans), we don't need 3...


We actually have 3 already, The Lantiens, The Ori & The Alterans.

Also if you count all Humans across the Milky way, who are the second evolution of the Ancients, we'd have 4.

Also, if you count the Asurans, who are the technological off-shoot from the Lantiens, we'd have 5.

So, 5 different sects. So, it would have to be
we don't need 6... :p

DrPepperJunkie
April 5th, 2006, 06:15 PM
yes, i think that would be a very bad idea. personally, i like the idea that the ancients helped facilitate their evolution better. maybe if we had a common thread that linked us, but not just that they were rogues.

Bragi
April 5th, 2006, 06:20 PM
Well, I guess it all depends on how it happened. I just don't see it being easily reconciled, seeing as how Wraith technology was vastly inferior to Ancient technology. The only reason they won the war was because of sheer numbers.

Lt. Colonel Ryu Gaia
April 5th, 2006, 06:26 PM
I wouldn't be surprised if it was something like that - I mean, where did they get all their technology, if not from feeding off of and merging with the atlantean beings.

metroid
April 6th, 2006, 12:03 AM
We actually have 3 already, The Lantiens, The Ori & The Alterans.

Also if you count all Humans across the Milky way, who are the second evolution of the Ancients, we'd have 4.

Also, if you count the Asurans, who are the technological off-shoot from the Lantiens, we'd have 5.

So, 5 different sects. So, it would have to be :p

That's not true, Lantians are Alterans, they simply left the MW when the plague struck. They named themselves 'Lantians' because they lived on atlantis, they are still Alterans though. Rather said, Orlin referred to themselves as Alterans, not Lantians.

Humans aren't related to the Alterans, we are simply a second evolution, we shouldn't and can't be called a 4th split off from the original group that consisted of the Ori and Alterans.
The same applies to the Asurans because they were CREATED (read: constructed) by the ancients, they are not a split off or anything like it.

The Prophet
April 6th, 2006, 02:30 AM
That's not true, Lantians are Alterans, they simply left the MW when the plague struck. They named themselves 'Lantians' because they lived on atlantis, they are still Alterans though. Rather said, Orlin referred to themselves as Alterans, not Lantians.

Humans aren't related to the Alterans, we are simply a second evolution, we shouldn't and can't be called a 4th split off from the original group that consisted of the Ori and Alterans.
The same applies to the Asurans because they were CREATED (read: constructed) by the ancients, they are not a split off or anything like it.


So, when Europeans migrated to America they stayed European? No, they became American. Same with the lantiens, they migrated to another Galaxy & became a different Culture, hence the 3rd Split.


We are actually related to the Alterans, the ATA gene in a few of us meaning that some of Earth's population had Alteran Ancestors. While it's true that not all Humans have it, they still had "some" Alteran DNA because they "seeded" human life using their DNA, hence "in their image."


The Asurans had the same basic culture as the Lantiens, they spoke the same language & had relations with them (social & economical, although they collapsed. So I would consider them to be Lantien, or an off-shoot when they split.

It's like America (or the US) is a culture occupied by hundreds of different cultures: Asians, British, Spanish, African, Middle Easten, far Easten, etc. But they're all part of the same culture now (due to the melting pot). This can be related to the Lantiens as it could be said that they are made up of different cultures- The Main Lantiens, The Asurans & any hypothetical refugess or allies that also lived in one of their many cities (i.e the Tower, Atlantis, etc).

Prior_of_the_Ori
April 6th, 2006, 06:00 AM
So, when Europeans migrated to America they stayed European? No, they became American. Same with the lantiens, they migrated to another Galaxy & became a different Culture, hence the 3rd Split.


We are actually related to the Alterans, the ATA gene in a few of us meaning that some of Earth's population had Alteran Ancestors. While it's true that not all Humans have it, they still had "some" Alteran DNA because they "seeded" human life using their DNA, hence "in their image."

Actually some humans would be part lantian since they came back and possibly interbred with humanity giving the actuvatuib gebe as well in the process.

I wouldnt really like the idea if the Wraith turned out to be Lantians in some shape or form. I personally liked the old idea of them being an ancient evil enemy that lived in Pegasus before the Lantians came but they changed it. Now we have 2 races that were 'accidents' namely the Wraith and the Asurans. I say leave it at that

generaloneill
April 6th, 2006, 09:51 AM
i wouldn't be angry but i would be surprised.:jack:

metroid
April 6th, 2006, 10:00 AM
So, when Europeans migrated to America they stayed European? No, they became American. Same with the lantiens, they migrated to another Galaxy & became a different Culture, hence the 3rd Split.


We are actually related to the Alterans, the ATA gene in a few of us meaning that some of Earth's population had Alteran Ancestors. While it's true that not all Humans have it, they still had "some" Alteran DNA because they "seeded" human life using their DNA, hence "in their image."


The Asurans had the same basic culture as the Lantiens, they spoke the same language & had relations with them (social & economical, although they collapsed. So I would consider them to be Lantien, or an off-shoot when they split.

It's like America (or the US) is a culture occupied by hundreds of different cultures: Asians, British, Spanish, African, Middle Easten, far Easten, etc. But they're all part of the same culture now (due to the melting pot). This can be related to the Lantiens as it could be said that they are made up of different cultures- The Main Lantiens, The Asurans & any hypothetical refugess or allies that also lived in one of their many cities (i.e the Tower, Atlantis, etc).

We are talking galaxy wide here, do we not call americans and europeans both humans?

It's no different for the ancients.

the fifth man
April 6th, 2006, 11:00 AM
Well, I guess it all depends on how it happened. I just don't see it being easily reconciled, seeing as how Wraith technology was vastly inferior to Ancient technology. The only reason they won the war was because of sheer numbers.

I totally agree.:) Personally, such a move would anger me a bit.

mckaychick
April 6th, 2006, 11:01 AM
yeah it would anger me bit too

The Prophet
April 6th, 2006, 12:13 PM
We are talking galaxy wide here, do we not call americans and europeans both humans?

It's no different for the ancients.


Do we call the Tok'ra Goa'uld? No, we name them seperatly because they are two differnet Cultures but the same race, same with the Ancients.

Also, wouldn't we just take the idea of different cultures (instead of races) & magnify it to the entire Galactic Cluster?


Why isn't their an earth Flag on the First Lunar Landing site? Because Earth isn't a whole culture, so we can't tar all the differnet cultures with the same brush ( where brushing indicates labelling them by race as opposed to culture). Anyway, we don't even have an Earth Flag, let alone the same socail structures. For all that matters politacly & socially we might as well be different races.


(When I say "races", I'm talking about different spieces, not different ethnicities).

jannagalaxy
April 6th, 2006, 01:42 PM
I thought that maybe the "Bug" that feed upon the humans and maybe a couple of ancients, and maybe at one time the ancients didn't see them as a threat......

FROM RISING....."In our over confidence" that sugests to me that they originally saw them how the asgard saw the goa'uld until of course, it was too late.

I think that they were too over confident.

So, to answer the question......I doubt that the wraith will turn out to be "rogue" ancients.

Ancient 1
April 6th, 2006, 02:49 PM
I thought the Ori were Ancients gone rogue...not wraiths. :P :D

mahram
April 6th, 2006, 07:31 PM
well it could be explained that the wraith were in hibernation for thousands of years or that they took a diffrent evolution then current atlanteans. But it seemed to connect right. But the writers keep hinting at it right. The wraith have great mind powers like atlanteans, they have a similar language *the only diffrence is that its a form of ancient used millions of years ago*, they have similar technology, but more primitive, and etc. I just have the odd feeling the writers are going pull the rug on us on what we currently belieave as the truth. Remember when sg1 started, we started with the premise the gould created the stargates, and were the first to discover humans, till they introduce the whole ancient alliance, and ancient storyline. Pulling the rug on everything we belieaved tobe true under us. And not to mention how we thought ancients evolved on earth, but they are actually aliens from a galaxy far far away.


Well, I guess it all depends on how it happened. I just don't see it being easily reconciled, seeing as how Wraith technology was vastly inferior to Ancient technology. The only reason they won the war was because of sheer numbers.

Kanten
April 6th, 2006, 10:33 PM
I thought the Ori were Ancients gone rogue...not wraiths. :P :D

Weren't the Alterans technically rogue Ori?

The Prophet
April 7th, 2006, 02:36 AM
No, The Alterans & The Ori were One Big Happy Race, when there was a chism. The Big Happy Race split in two- with one side choosing Religious Domination, whilst the Other side choosing Scientific Research. Neither of them are rougue

It's like Vietnam. Once was a single country but then split into two separate States- North Vietnam choosing Comunist, South Vietnam Choosing Capitalist & with both sides fighting- but Comunist Winning.

(^ Basic Explaination, ignoring Japanese & French Intrusion & China & USSR support of the North & USA support of the South & Geneva Accords).

MarshAngel
April 7th, 2006, 08:38 AM
I was just wondering, the biggest mystery of the wraith was that there language was similar to atlantean language, but thousands of years ago. Would you be angry if it just turned out, that the Wraith are atlanteans turned rouge. They wanted to survive the ancient plague by turning themselves into vampires, and the other atlanteans came to stop them.

I would be very annoyed yes.

But if I had to go with something similar I would rather a variation that would allow for a small set of ancients leaving for Pegasus at some point before Atlantis left, as a scout perhaps. They would be the ones that encountered the bugs. This would allow more time for evolution... I think. I don't know how this would fit with the current story and timeline but it may have worked better to start with, Instead of the wraith evolving side by side with humans, completely unnoticed.

I'd just as soon avoid any vampire references. Any advanced race who made that choice would lose IQ points.

numpty
April 7th, 2006, 09:10 AM
Would you Be angry if the Wraith turned out tobe ancients gone rouge?

What, like French Communists?

(runs and hides) :D :wraithqueen10:

GhostPoet
April 7th, 2006, 10:57 AM
Not gonna happen.

for two good reasons.

1) We know the Wraith evolved from bugs.

2) The Wraith are not intelligent in the ways of Ancient technology...not to the degree the REAL Ancients are. :)

Also...the Wraith survive on instinct...all though we are seeing that the more their psychic bonds are broken the more intelligent they are getting.

Commander Ivanova
April 7th, 2006, 11:25 AM
Nope, why should I care if they overdo the blusher? Just makes them look silly.

AtlantisForever
April 7th, 2006, 12:19 PM
ive been wondering this also but i wonder how the wraith got there tech in the first place... there must be some Wraith who were Ancient scientist's studying the plant's makin life like they do..

mahram
April 7th, 2006, 01:07 PM
we dont know if they evolved from bugs at all. Rodney just theorized that it could be one of the reasons. and its so like the sg PWB to pull the rugs from under us right. We all thought the ancients evolved on earth, but that was pulled from under us. We all thought current humans were the first humans on earth but that was pulled. so was the gould creating the stargates. Or how about the gould being a race, from only being one alien like Ra. Its not unprecedented and its all the usual for sg PWB to shake everything we know as true, and change everything. They have been leaving so many clues lately that there leading to the wraith as being bad ancients. Remember how they change michael into a human.


Not gonna happen.

for two good reasons.

1) We know the Wraith evolved from bugs.

2) The Wraith are not intelligent in the ways of Ancient technology...not to the degree the REAL Ancients are. :)

Also...the Wraith survive on instinct...all though we are seeing that the more their psychic bonds are broken the more intelligent they are getting.

Yume
April 7th, 2006, 11:07 PM
I was just wondering, the biggest mystery of the wraith was that there language was similar to atlantean language, but thousands of years ago. Would you be angry if it just turned out, that the Wraith are atlanteans turned rouge. They wanted to survive the ancient plague by turning themselves into vampires, and the other atlanteans came to stop them.

Angry? No I think that this is an interesting idea.
But I still stick to my own theory that the Wraith are a weapon created by the ancients (maybe to fight the Ori) which get out of control than that they are former Ancients.

The Prophet
April 8th, 2006, 05:27 AM
Angry? No I think that this is an interesting idea.
But I still stick to my own theory that the Wraith are a weapon created by the ancients (maybe to fight the Ori) which get out of control than that they are former Ancients.

Wow. They dislike the Ori so they create the Wraith, the Wraith turn on them so they create the Asurans, the Asurans turn on them so they create Humans?... They like getting other races to fight their battles for them...:rolleyes:

AsgardBob NoPants
April 8th, 2006, 06:49 AM
Maybe the Wraith had already branched off from the Iratus Insect before the Ancients arrived and were slightly humanoid, but Lanteans and Pegasus Galaxy humans made them more so. They might have used technology they already had to add human/Ancient genes to their own, and they wouldn't have had a language of their own yet because of their telepathy

LaCroix
April 8th, 2006, 06:10 PM
I'd be more upset if the Wraith and the Gou'ald turned out to be a biological
WMD. Used by both Ancients and Ori in their "war".

knocknashee
April 11th, 2006, 01:12 AM
It'd be an interesting development, though I see it more that maybe the Wraith were the result of some kind of genetic experiment gone wrong... *shrugs*

AdamRLeggett
April 12th, 2006, 11:24 AM
Wasn't it established that the Wraith are a bunch of Ancients that got bitten by the bug? - wasn't that the whole point of the Ford and Michael storylines - and that the retrovirus they developed undid the genetic damage done by the bug bite.

It's often implied that all 'human' life evolved on earth first and was either transplanted by the gou'ald as slaves or were ancient outposts - but then you come across those 'humanoid' races that seemed to develop almost identically (ok, it's a tv show) yet have had no prior contact with any of the aforementioned. (Tolans and Aschen spring to mind)

Excellion_razor
April 12th, 2006, 01:49 PM
That's not true, Lantians are Alterans, they simply left the MW when the plague struck. They named themselves 'Lantians' because they lived on atlantis, they are still Alterans though. Rather said, Orlin referred to themselves as Alterans, not Lantians.

Humans aren't related to the Alterans, we are simply a second evolution, we shouldn't and can't be called a 4th split off from the original group that consisted of the Ori and Alterans.
The same applies to the Asurans because they were CREATED (read: constructed) by the ancients, they are not a split off or anything like it.


My understanding of the Ancients is that they seeded the MW and Peg. galaxies w/humans that eventually will be able to evolve to be in essence Alterens. Through time and natural selection the human race has the potential to be the same spp. We have the same DNA minus a couple of genes. Thats is my understanding, however I cld be wrong.

cpgfilth
April 12th, 2006, 07:02 PM
Alterans split from the other in their homeword, the other being the ori. They came to the MW galaxy. The plague hit, the offshoot, the alterans, as a whole travelled to another galaxy to survive. This doesn't constitute another offshoot off the race. Heck even Orlen came back and identified themselves as Alterans.

The Asgard had to move to another world to start over, does this mean they're an offshoot? Nope.

So there's Alterans, Ori, and the next evolution which are the humans today in the series. The "others" in next seasons aren't even human so thats no offshoot.

Maybe the wraith speak a similar language because the bugs evolved after co-existing with people that lived along side the ancients.

NakedJehutyV2
April 12th, 2006, 09:29 PM
nope

Lost Charmed One
April 13th, 2006, 12:04 AM
No, The Alterans & The Ori were One Big Happy Race, when there was a chism. The Big Happy Race split in two- with one side choosing Religious Domination, whilst the Other side choosing Scientific Research. Neither of them are rougue

It's like Vietnam. Once was a single country but then split into two separate States- North Vietnam choosing Comunist, South Vietnam Choosing Capitalist & with both sides fighting- but Comunist Winning.

(^ Basic Explaination, ignoring Japanese & French Intrusion & China & USSR support of the North & USA support of the South & Geneva Accords).


What I don't understand is if the Ori took on a more religious path than scientific, why would the Alterans be afraid of them? Wouldn't the Atlerans have the level of technology to totally defend themselves against the Ori? It sounds like the Ori and Wraith were both technologically inferior to the Alterans/Ancients

Lightbane
April 14th, 2006, 08:48 PM
Anicents (Alterans)

Alteran - > Spoiler warning highlight to see Asurans (Asurans said to be expelled from Atlantis by the Alterans forcefully)

Alteran -> Ori split (Ori were not Alteran they were two happy societies advancing towards accension, the Ori wanted to use there new powers for domination the Alterans didn't want to do anything and opposed the Ori's views so the Ori tried to destroy them)

only 3 divisions

After the Alterians started dying out they seeded many galaxies with human life with 1/1000000(there abouts) encoded with anicent DNA

Lightbane
April 14th, 2006, 08:53 PM
What I don't understand is if the Ori took on a more religious path than scientific, why would the Alterans be afraid of them? Wouldn't the Atlerans have the level of technology to totally defend themselves against the Ori? It sounds like the Ori and Wraith were both technologically inferior to the Alterans/Ancients

to answer your question the Alterans just left and went to our galaxy using there supreme powers on our galaxy after other sentient beings started appearing

The Wraith kicked there asses because of much larger numbers not greater technology and also very early on in Season 1 of Stargate Atlantis its stated that the Wraith evolved on a world where the Ancients had seeded human life on a world with the Arratus bug (the life sucker on Thirty-Eight Minutes and Conversion)

TheCaptain
April 15th, 2006, 10:52 PM
I'm pretty much old-school, and find it a little difficult to stomach all of this Ancient-ness being mitigated to something somewhat... I don't now, commonplace, I guess.

The idea of the unascended Ancients being a little bit too onipitant and hasty in their seeding of life in the Pegasus Galaxy, and somehow creating/waking the Wraith, is to me more of an intriguing way to take things than to make them former Ancients. That would probably peeve me off, yeah.

But its TPTB that run the show, folks, so it's up to them. Maybe the Wraith will stay being those slightly mysterious, unknown foes that menace the entire galaxy - the Atlantis expedition can fight them, beat them, but not quite understand them. Who knows?

We will just have to wait and see...

Capt

mahram
April 16th, 2006, 02:19 PM
well thats what the replicators were right. They were nanites turn rouge. Spoiler alert but in a future episode it turns out replicators were bugs used to take on the wraith. LOL and imagine the wraith were weopens used to take on the ori.


I'd be more upset if the Wraith and the Gou'ald turned out to be a biological
WMD. Used by both Ancients and Ori in their "war".

Prior_of_the_Ori
April 16th, 2006, 06:00 PM
Uhm no that NOT what has been said. The replicators are the result of nanite technology that was used to create the Asurans.. The replicators were toys created by the android Reese and not created by the Ancients. The technology is kind of Ancient design but the replicators were not created by the Ancients.

jenks
April 16th, 2006, 06:44 PM
I was just wondering, the biggest mystery of the wraith was that there language was similar to atlantean language, but thousands of years ago. Would you be angry if it just turned out, that the Wraith are atlanteans turned rouge. They wanted to survive the ancient plague by turning themselves into vampires, and the other atlanteans came to stop them.

I wouldn't be angry, its a TV show ffs

jckfan55
April 16th, 2006, 06:48 PM
I figure the wraith may be an Ancient experiment gone horribly wrong, but they're not actually rogue ancients. :S

XxDark-LordxX
April 17th, 2006, 03:55 PM
its possible... dont know about "rouge" but its possible that when the ppl attacked by the bug thingies were cured by ancients or something that person became wraith... like shep... btw... just for YOU blind ppl... "possible"