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View Full Version : Did the lanteans have a brain fart?



verbalkint
March 22nd, 2006, 09:43 PM
I forget what episode it was in but I believe they told Weir in Before I Sleep that they sent a delegation protected by their most powerful warships in a faint hope of negotiating a truce only to be outnumbered and a great battle ensued and the ships destroyed. Now it may just be me but wouldn't it have occurred to the Lanteans that the Wraith might try to take the opportunity to eliminate their fleet. I mean come on, take some time and make the appropriate adjustments to the hyperdrives to be able to escape if there is trouble since we pretty much know the ships shields could take several hits by wraith hive ships and keep going especially since the Deadalus could.

Anytime the Deadalus is in trouble and the shields are failing they immediately open a hyperspace window and get the heck out of dodge so what the heck made the Lanteans convoy stick around when they were probably outnumbered at least 10 to 1 and knowing full well by that time the Wraith could only defeat them if they were outnumbered in such a way.

RyantheGreat
March 22nd, 2006, 11:07 PM
I forget what episode it was in but I believe they told Weir in Before I Sleep that they sent a delegation protected by their most powerful warships in a faint hope of negotiating a truce only to be outnumbered and a great battle ensued and the ships destroyed. Now it may just be me but wouldn't it have occurred to the Lanteans that the Wraith might try to take the opportunity to eliminate their fleet. I mean come on, take some time and make the appropriate adjustments to the hyperdrives to be able to escape if there is trouble since we pretty much know the ships shields could take several hits by wraith hive ships and keep going especially since the Deadalus could.

Anytime the Deadalus is in trouble and the shields are failing they immediately open a hyperspace window and get the heck out of dodge so what the heck made the Lanteans convoy stick around when they were probably outnumbered at least 10 to 1 and knowing full well by that time the Wraith could only defeat them if they were outnumbered in such a way.

Pure speculation, but maybe the Wraith found a way to disable either their hyperdrive, or their shields, or both.

Kirath
March 22nd, 2006, 11:47 PM
It's possible that the wraith allowed the Atlanteans to believe that they wanted a truce, sat down with them to discuus a peaceful solution and then ambushed them. They may have allowed the atlanteans to enter there territory made it seem like they wanted a peaceful solution and when the Atlanteans let their guard down they struck before the ancients even had time to raise their sheilds or power up weapons. The wraith are as patient as they are deceptive. htey could have waited, biding their time, learning very thing they could ab the ancients, their ships, drop a computer virus here and there and them struck.

pRyvvik
March 23rd, 2006, 08:27 AM
The Wraith have an ace up thier sleeve we've yet to see...an Interdictor Cruiser

verbalkint
March 23rd, 2006, 09:21 AM
It's possible that the wraith allowed the Atlanteans to believe that they wanted a truce, sat down with them to discuus a peaceful solution and then ambushed them. They may have allowed the atlanteans to enter there territory made it seem like they wanted a peaceful solution and when the Atlanteans let their guard down they struck before the ancients even had time to raise their sheilds or power up weapons. The wraith are as patient as they are deceptive. htey could have waited, biding their time, learning very thing they could ab the ancients, their ships, drop a computer virus here and there and them struck.

I have no doubt that the Wraith led the Lanteans to believe they were open to a truce but come on, no way does SG-1 walk into enemy territory and not have their convoy ready just in case its a double cross. Its like they were total retards when it comes to combat situations and tactics. I guess thats why they left their home galaxy instead of fighting with the Ori. What the heck kind of truce could they have gained anyway? Probably would have left a certain number of worlds to the Wraith to feed off of thus condemning those humans to perpetual fear and short life spans. For all the supposed high moral character of the ancients i'm led to believe science is the only area where they truly progressed continually.

vaberella
March 23rd, 2006, 10:43 AM
Pure speculation, but maybe the Wraith found a way to disable either their hyperdrive, or their shields, or both.

Yeah but the wraith can't even fix their own hyperdrive, hence the reason they kidnapped McKay...:mckay: Maybe your right, they could have thrown water on it...:o


The Wraith have an ace up thier sleeve we've yet to see...an Interdictor Cruiser

Okay, I'll bite..enquiring minds want to know...what in the mephisto is an Interdictor Cruiser? And if it's a kick ass Wraith ship of some kind..I hope Teyla gets to fly it! :D

VB

sequence
March 23rd, 2006, 12:11 PM
Okay, I'll bite..enquiring minds want to know...what in the mephisto is an Interdictor Cruiser?
VB

An Interdictor Cruiser is an Imperial ship from Starwars, that can prevent enemy ships from entering hyperspace. You see them in the game Empire at War.

Major Tyler
March 23rd, 2006, 12:27 PM
The Lanteans were never warriors and do not think strategically like we do. They put ultimate faith in their overwhelming technology and it was their undoing.

Wraith_Hunter
March 23rd, 2006, 01:16 PM
The first thing as witnessed in 'Allies', they make you beleive that they're willing & open to various degrees of cooperation, so that will have in part allowed the Lantians to become a little too comfortable for their own liking.

They probably even let them land, or did what they done to Daedalus, arranged coordinates then jumped them when they came out of HS. Another tactic that I would use would be to hide the ships behind a planet, moon or gas giant etc, anything that would mask the signatures. Get them to land, then attack.

After all, the warships were there only to protect the delegation, hence if the Wraith only attacked the delegations ship. It would probably become damaged straight away after taking all that directed fire on it. After that it's trapped, so the warships have to stay & fight to protect the ship. Then simply more & more ships came. Until there was just too many & in the end, the Lantians lost the great battle.

You can't actually criticise the Ancients for trying, especially since the SGA team knew all about what the Wraith did in the past, yet they fell into the exact same trap themselves.


What the heck kind of truce could they have gained anyway? Probably would have left a certain number of worlds to the Wraith to feed off of thus condemning those humans to perpetual fear and short life spans.

They could have agreed to let the humans world live in peace, then the Ancients come up with another food source, such as cloning. Even genetic engineering on the Wraith's part, just enough to remove the need for human food etc.

lazerbrain
March 23rd, 2006, 01:44 PM
Okay, I'll bite..enquiring minds want to know...what in the mephisto is an Interdictor Cruiser? And if it's a kick ass Wraith ship of some kind..I hope Teyla gets to fly it! :D

VB


As sequence stated, an Interdictor Cruiser is an Imperial ship that prevents enemy ships from entering hyperspace. The first time I remember seeing anything about them was in Heir to the Empire by Timothy Zahn. They're pretty neat. They have gravity well projectors that simulate a super-dense mass in the hyperspace computers. The computers won't let you just because they think you're close to a planet, black hole, or super nova. Something like that.

Just what the Wraith need: another way to outsmart Atlantis. :(

Bragi
March 23rd, 2006, 03:36 PM
I wondered that too.

I chocked it up to plothole/moving the story forward.

RyantheGreat
March 23rd, 2006, 03:41 PM
I have no doubt that the Wraith led the Lanteans to believe they were open to a truce but come on, no way does SG-1 walk into enemy territory and not have their convoy ready just in case its a double cross. Its like they were total retards when it comes to combat situations and tactics. I guess thats why they left their home galaxy instead of fighting with the Ori. What the heck kind of truce could they have gained anyway? Probably would have left a certain number of worlds to the Wraith to feed off of thus condemning those humans to perpetual fear and short life spans. For all the supposed high moral character of the ancients i'm led to believe science is the only area where they truly progressed continually.

Well... SG1 might not walk into obvious traps... but Atlantis? :hammond: Maybe it's something in the water in the Pegasus galaxy...

or here's a thought, the Wraith are telepathic and eat on humans. Maybe they're able to project a calming, low level telepathic wave to their prey which makes people more... gulliable.

Nathan
March 23rd, 2006, 04:04 PM
Don't forget too that we are using Asgard sheilds. So what? I hear you say. Well, the Asgard and the Ancients knew each other. The ancients stopped developing shield tech 10,000 + years ago while the Asgards have had those 10,000 + years to make their shields stronger.

My guess/assumption is that the Asgard shields of today (for ships) are probably stronger than the Lantean shields of 10,000 years ago.

RyantheGreat
March 23rd, 2006, 04:08 PM
Don't forget too that we are using Asgard sheilds. So what? I hear you say. Well, the Asgard and the Ancients knew each other. The ancients stopped developing shield tech 10,000 + years ago while the Asgards have had those 10,000 + years to make their shields stronger.

My guess/assumption is that the Asgard shields of today (for ships) are probably stronger than the Lantean shields of 10,000 years ago.

That's possible too. The Lanteans had no real enemies until they met the Wraith (that we know of).

The Asgard have fought both the Goa'uld and the Replicators. They're weapons technology has probably advanced quite a bit.

cooky
March 24th, 2006, 03:51 PM
I doubt the asgard shields are superior to ancient shield technology. Siege 3 showed that though Daedalus could withstand a significant pounding from a large wraith fleet, Atlantis's shield was far better, do at least in part to the zpm.

Even with the zpm, Atlantis's shield was only expected to withstand the assult from 10 hiveships and the escorting cruisers for a couple days. Without zero point technology used to power Lantian ships, the shields would be far less durrable. An Aurora class ship would probly be hard pressed to withstand even 3 to 1 odds, despite its supperior firepower and shielding.

Also, though the Lantians were not pacifists, they built a military and vessels and technology designed strictly for military use, they probly hadn't fought a real war since coming to pegasus. They'd been in Pegasus for several million years before encountering the Wraith and their tactical and strategic experience was probly almost non-existant. A limitation that would effect not just their battle strategies, but their ship designs. The bridge design of the Aurora class is a good example of this. Placing the command staff in such an obvious and identifiable location makes them a huge, very tempting target. And it wouldn't suprise me that whatever was used to make the large, transparent dome couln't stand up to much, if any weapons fire. The design looks cool, but looks don't win wars.

The wraith, on the otherhand, went from the dominant spiecies on a single world to the conquerers of the galaxy in one century. In the first genii episode, the genii leader stated that the genii had once been a grand federation of worlds (not an exact quote, but close enough). Though the stargate alone would easily permit this, there's no reason to doubt that some of the human societies in pegasus may have achieved some level of space travel technology in the pre-wraith era, only to be blasted to barbarianism by the rise of the wraith. Though this is entirelly my own speculation, my bet is the wraith waged war with these cultures first, with the Lantians only interveining when it became obvious the wraith were to much for the human societies to handle. It was also from these cultures (again, only my own speculation) that the wraith aquired the scientific knowledge to build their first ships, either reverse engineering capture technology or using the same telepathic ability we saw in rising that told the wraith of earths existance. This would explain how the wraith so quickly aquired the technology to build their fleets and why in some ways wraith technology is more advanced than ours and in others is less advanced.

npattis
March 24th, 2006, 04:28 PM
I doubt the asgard shields are superior to ancient shield technology. Siege 3 showed that though Daedalus could withstand a significant pounding from a large wraith fleet, Atlantis's shield was far better, do at least in part to the zpm.

Even with the zpm, Atlantis's shield was only expected to withstand the assult from 10 hiveships and the escorting cruisers for a couple days. Without zero point technology used to power Lantian ships, the shields would be far less durrable. An Aurora class ship would probly be hard pressed to withstand even 3 to 1 odds, despite its supperior firepower and shielding.

Also, though the Lantians were not pacifists, they built a military and vessels and technology designed strictly for military use, they probly hadn't fought a real war since coming to pegasus. They'd been in Pegasus for several million years before encountering the Wraith and their tactical and strategic experience was probly almost non-existant. A limitation that would effect not just their battle strategies, but their ship designs. The bridge design of the Aurora class is a good example of this. Placing the command staff in such an obvious and identifiable location makes them a huge, very tempting target. And it wouldn't suprise me that whatever was used to make the large, transparent dome couln't stand up to much, if any weapons fire. The design looks cool, but looks don't win wars.

The wraith, on the otherhand, went from the dominant spiecies on a single world to the conquerers of the galaxy in one century. In the first genii episode, the genii leader stated that the genii had once been a grand federation of worlds (not an exact quote, but close enough). Though the stargate alone would easily permit this, there's no reason to doubt that some of the human societies in pegasus may have achieved some level of space travel technology in the pre-wraith era, only to be blasted to barbarianism by the rise of the wraith. Though this is entirelly my own speculation, my bet is the wraith waged war with these cultures first, with the Lantians only interveining when it became obvious the wraith were to much for the human societies to handle. It was also from these cultures (again, only my own speculation) that the wraith aquired the scientific knowledge to build their first ships, either reverse engineering capture technology or using the same telepathic ability we saw in rising that told the wraith of earths existance. This would explain how the wraith so quickly aquired the technology to build their fleets and why in some ways wraith technology is more advanced than ours and in others is less advanced.

Very good theory :)

Mattathias2.0
March 24th, 2006, 04:50 PM
When didn't they have a brain fart?

Mattathias

O'Neil
March 24th, 2006, 05:02 PM
Technology wise, the ancients were brilliant and higher on the scale then any other race, but common sense wise, they were lacking big time!!

Come to think of it, they must be pretty forgetful too. They build a machine that destroy all life in galaxy right? (SG1 used it to the destroy the replicators), yet they forget to use it to destroy the wraith. I mean, come on! THey built it, so they should know how to use it, but I guess they thought the wraith had a soft spot in their cold, black, dead heart.

Annubis' hitman
March 24th, 2006, 06:17 PM
Technology wise, the ancients were brilliant and higher on the scale then any other race, but common sense wise, they were lacking big time!!

Come to think of it, they must be pretty forgetful too. They build a machine that destroy all life in galaxy right? (SG1 used it to the destroy the replicators), yet they forget to use it to destroy the wraith. I mean, come on! THey built it, so they should know how to use it, but I guess they thought the wraith had a soft spot in their cold, black, dead heart.

I have a theory about that. We know that the wraith are very close to humans so maybe activating the dakara device would have killed the ancients along with the wraith.

Also:
The ancients were technologically and morally better than the wraith,but lacking millitary knowledge. They lost to the wraith because of a couple of reasons.
1.) They were vastle outnumbered.
2.) They ancients probably underestimated them or intervened to late to stop the wraith.
3.) They were not used to fighting a war and didnt have a true army and military fleet.
The Ancients were the most advanced race(expect the ori) ever to exist to our knowledge. They acsended for god's sake. They Would have owned the wraith if they would have had better numbers, better military knowledge, and didnt think too highly of themselves. I hate how people think the ancients were stupid. I'd like to see a human(without the help of the ancients, directly or indirectly) ascended. For that matter an asguard or nox either. The Ancients were and are suprior to all races in the surrounding galaxies(ori excluded). They just werent ready for a war. If they would have been ready the would have OWNED.
O and trust me. The ancients tech out does any race today. The wraith, the asguard, and probably even the nox.


O and The Orion would own wraith ships and maybe even ori, if the ancients were here to fix it and power it.

Edit: I thought of something else too. The Ancients were the best race ever but.... "Everything that has a beginning has an end."

verbalkint
March 24th, 2006, 09:17 PM
I have a theory about that. We know that the wraith are very close to humans so maybe activating the dakara device would have killed the ancients along with the wraith.

Also:
The ancients were technologically and morally better than the wraith,but lacking millitary knowledge. They lost to the wraith because of a couple of reasons.
1.) They were vastle outnumbered.
2.) They ancients probably underestimated them or intervened to late to stop the wraith.
3.) They were not used to fighting a war and didnt have a true army and military fleet.
The Ancients were the most advanced race(expect the ori) ever to exist to our knowledge. They acsended for god's sake. They Would have owned the wraith if they would have had better numbers, better military knowledge, and didnt think too highly of themselves. I hate how people think the ancients were stupid. I'd like to see a human(without the help of the ancients, directly or indirectly) ascended. For that matter an asguard or nox either. The Ancients were and are suprior to all races in the surrounding galaxies(ori excluded). They just werent ready for a war. If they would have been ready the would have OWNED.
O and trust me. The ancients tech out does any race today. The wraith, the asguard, and probably even the nox.


O and The Orion would own wraith ships and maybe even ori, if the ancients were here to fix it and power it.

Edit: I thought of something else too. The Ancients were the best race ever but.... "Everything that has a beginning has an end."
Yes the ancients were serious advanced but the number one cause of their defeat is their self righteous sense of being better than the less advanced species. If the high council would have just allowed the scientist who built the time machine, Merlin, and the other Lanteans who wanted to fight back and be proactive they would have owned the Wraith but the high council was far too overconfident in their tech and got owned as a result.