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GateWorld
April 30th, 2004, 11:18 AM
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<FONT SIZE=4 COLOR="#0066BF"><B>UNNATURAL SELECTION</B></FONT>
<FONT SIZE=1>EPISODE NUMBER - 612</FONT>
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The team is called into battle unexpectedly when the Asgard homeworld is overrun by Replicators -- which have evolved into a startling new form. (Part 2 of 2)

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bcmilco
May 1st, 2004, 10:49 PM
This was the first episode I saw and I really enjoied it because it wasn't a clear "victory" for the good guys. I liked the fact that it made me stop and think... "Was that really the right thing to do?", "Was it the moral thing?".

I liked the fact that they left it open ended.

When a TV show gets me to stop and think I sit up and take notice. :)

Bacardi
May 3rd, 2004, 08:24 AM
i wasnt happy about jack's decision even though i understood why it was done.. seemed a bit out of character.. good story tho n as ya all probably know, one that will be revisited ...

bcmilco
May 3rd, 2004, 10:45 AM
Why did you think it was out of character? (honest curiosity)

I thought it was very much in character after I had watched more episode.

My main reason being he accomplished his misison going to what ever lengths were necessary, just as he did in Shades of Grey.

KorbenDirewolf
May 7th, 2004, 03:30 AM
really liked the way the Asgard managed to strengthen their enemy even more before kind of almost winning.

Liebestraume
June 13th, 2004, 08:05 AM
When a TV show gets me to stop and think I sit up and take notice. :)
I totally agree. I remember stumbling upon this episode before "getting into" SG-1. At the time I couldn't quite understand the characters' motivations, yet the episode made an impression nonetheless.

Now that I know all the back stories, I rank this among my favorite episodes of the series. I loved how it leave the ending open and let the viewers draw their own conclusions. It certainly made me see Jack in a new light.

keshou
June 13th, 2004, 08:13 AM
I rank this as one of my favorite episodes of season 6, right after Abyss and Changeling.

I loved that Jack made the tough choices (I thought it was very in character), that they brought up Charlie again and that the episode dealt with some interesting scifi concepts.

I thought the evolution of the replicators was interesting. Maybe a little unbelievable but it worked. "First" said that they took human form to honor their creator "Reese". I always wondered if their outward physical appearances were people that Reese actually knew. For example, maybe "First" looked like Reese's father.

Anyway, liked it a lot and thought it had great visual effects. That last image of Fifth, frozen in time, has stuck with me.

Elwe Singollo
June 13th, 2004, 08:56 AM
The only question that i had, why did they have to leave fifth!!! :(

bcmilco
June 13th, 2004, 09:14 AM
The only question that i had, why did they have to leave fifth!!! :(

Because if they didn't the other replicators would know he had left and they would be able to stop SG-1 and 5th before the device activated.

So Jack made the hard call and left 5th behind. He clearly wasn't happy with it, but he knew it needed to be done and he did it.

SG_Mike
June 17th, 2004, 11:42 AM
The decisions made by Jack were based on the simple idea of Self Preservation. Look at what the replicators learned about earth, The SGC and SG-1. Kind of scary. So I do not blame Jack at all for what he did. I would have left Fifth behind as well. There was not enough time to build that kind of trust. There was a lot going against him. He is still a replicator.

KorbenDirewolf
June 17th, 2004, 12:13 PM
I guess we can just hope they never manage to escape.

Mr Prophet
June 17th, 2004, 12:29 PM
Jack was willing to leave Fifth because he refuses to see anything mechanical as having a right to life. His robot double had to die before he could accept that maybe it had been alive and he never had the slightest interest in reasoning with Reese.

SG_Mike
June 17th, 2004, 12:42 PM
We've done this......Joking.

No seriously, I agree. Just trying to point out that Sam and Danial have changed Jacks mind before. Somehow I doubt it would fly in this situation, but I have seen stranger things in the SG universe.

Liebestraume
June 17th, 2004, 07:59 PM
Jack was willing to leave Fifth because he refuses to see anything mechanical as having a right to life.
I agree, but I also see this as his rationalization, not his motivation. It's not so much that Jack did the right thing, only what was necessary. IMHO his willingness to bear the burden of conscience for the others bespeaks a special brand of nobility.

Mr Prophet
June 17th, 2004, 09:07 PM
If Fifth had been an actual human being, especially a young human, Jack wouldn't have left him like that; he would at least have tried to bring him along. Never leave anyone behind is practically his motto and he's stuck to that through thick and thin before now; look how reluctant he was to leave Elliot and Elliot was already dying.

I'm not saying he made the wrong choice; just that it was perhaps fortunate that Fifth lies outside the protection of Jack's particular code.

Liebestraume
June 20th, 2004, 02:55 PM
Jack's sense of duty supercedes everything else, so he'd bring someone along only if doing so would not endanger his team/planet. The most fundamental problem here lies not with Fifth's being a "machine" but rather with this particular kind of "machine" -- his natural instinct to replicate poses a threat against which there is no known defense.

I agree that Jack would have a much tougher call had Fifth been inside the protection of Jack's code, and I am not saying that the "humanity" question made no difference to Jack. It did, but only in his rationalization, not his judgment.

omnian
June 21st, 2004, 04:47 AM
Ooh, I love Fifth. He's so cool and yet I bet he's gonna turn so evil when he reaches that device.

The advanced Replicators were an interesting storyline. How they evolved from those blocks to nanites is quite interesting. At least I think they were composed of nanites...maybe I'm forgetting something.

Dramaqueen
June 22nd, 2004, 10:55 AM
I have a question... at the beginning Thor told SG-1 that they activated the single command that was left in Reese's programming to make the Replicators come to their planet (or wherever) to trap them in the time-bubble... so does that mean that Daniel was wrong in "Menace" and Jack right? Because in that episode the question whether Reese told the Replicators to shut down or not was pretty much left open.
And, was Reese lying when she said that she lost control over the Replicators... cause if there was a command in her programming telling the Replicators to go after the Asgard technology...
:confused: or did I just miss something explaining all this?

KorbenDirewolf
June 22nd, 2004, 10:58 AM
I think the command that was activated was a call for them to come to her, wherever she happened to be. And since the Asgard had her, that's where the Replicators went when the signal was sent.

bcmilco
June 22nd, 2004, 05:27 PM
so does that mean that Daniel was wrong in "Menace" and Jack right? Because in that episode the question whether Reese told the Replicators to shut down or not was pretty much left open.
And, was Reese lying when she said that she lost control over the Replicators... cause if there was a command in her programming telling the Replicators to go after the Asgard technology...
:confused: or did I just miss something explaining all this?

Korben is right in that the command was just a "come to me where I am" command.

I think she was telling the truth in Menace about loosing control.

The replicators are programmed to replicate at all costs, so as they continue to replicate some will get farther and farther away from her. If just one got out of range she'd no longer be able to control what it does or where it goes, and it would stick to it's original programming: "replicate at all costs". And at some point she was turned off, so any replicators that she was still in control of would eventually start to do their own thing too.

I'm not completely convinced she'd lost total control at the SGC but that one replicator that Carter and Hammond were looking at did act on it's own, so she was either lossing control or she was ordering it to attack either way she had to be stopped and I think Jack did the right thing.

Dramaqueen
June 23rd, 2004, 04:17 AM
Korben is right in that the command was just a "come to me where I am" command.

I think she was telling the truth in Menace about loosing control.

The replicators are programmed to replicate at all costs, so as they continue to replicate some will get farther and farther away from her. If just one got out of range she'd no longer be able to control what it does or where it goes, and it would stick to it's original programming: "replicate at all costs". And at some point she was turned off, so any replicators that she was still in control of would eventually start to do their own thing too.

I'm not completely convinced she'd lost total control at the SGC but that one replicator that Carter and Hammond were looking at did act on it's own, so she was either lossing control or she was ordering it to attack either way she had to be stopped and I think Jack did the right thing.
Well first, thanks for helping me to clear up the mess in my head :D ...but I'm still wondering how the command for the Replicators to come forth in her programming can work if she's lost control over them and, if Reese knew about the command and that it still worked, I mean she would, wouldn't she?

sgeureka
June 23rd, 2004, 05:20 AM
...but I'm still wondering how the command for the Replicators to come forth in her programming can work if she's lost control over them and, if Reese knew about the command and that it still worked, I mean she would, wouldn't she?
I always saw Reese as controlling the Replicators with her will, and since the human will is in connection with feelings and other irrational things of the mind...

I think Reese just paniced, got indecisive and hence lost control. Now if she is dead (her emotions are shut off) and the Asgards can somehow interconnect with the "all-Replicators-come-here"-routine, then there shouldn't be a problem.

Mr Prophet
June 23rd, 2004, 10:32 AM
Reese got herself shut-down, didn't she? Moreover though, some of the Reps might have got out of range, but the Asgard boosted the signal 'throughout the known universe'.

infopackrat
June 23rd, 2004, 02:09 PM
I think there are actually two possibilities: One, Jack shooting her probably caused a lot of flux and shorts, so the only retrieveable command remaining was "come to me." Two, as the replicators replicated, their programming evolved farther and farther from Reese until the only command they still recognized was the recall signal.

Mio
June 23rd, 2004, 03:14 PM
I think there are actually two possibilities: One, Jack shooting her probably caused a lot of flux and shorts, so the only retrieveable command remaining was "come to me." Two, as the replicators replicated, their programming evolved farther and farther from Reese until the only command they still recognized was the recall signal.
I believe from the way Thor worded it:

"The android, Reese, that you discovered and provided to us for study retained a single core command in her base programming which we believed all Replicators would still follow."

The second one is what he meant.... They hadn't evolved past the 'come to me' command.

bcmilco
June 23rd, 2004, 05:05 PM
Reese got herself shut-down, didn't she? Moreover though, some of the Reps might have got out of range, but the Asgard boosted the signal 'throughout the known universe'.

Jack shot Reese and then removed the battery from her neck.

Otherwise I agree, once the replicators were out of range there was nothing that Reese could do to stop them, she didn't have a powerful enough broadcast system to reach the replicators over any great distance, espceially not interstellar.

So until she can communicate with the replicators she has effectively lost control of them.

The Asgard implied that they connected her to something that would broadcast her "come to me" command to all the replicators, and that that is what made it possible for the Asgard to do what they did in Unnatural Selection.

Roatbaum
June 23rd, 2004, 07:27 PM
Jack was willing to leave Fifth because he refuses to see anything mechanical as having a right to life. His robot double had to die before he could accept that maybe it had been alive and he never had the slightest interest in reasoning with Reese.As is my right, I have to disagree. Jack does what he has to do for the 'good' of the country he has chosen to protect. He knows the replicators are dangerous, he knew it would be dangerous for his robot double to be on the loose, (he didn't kill any of them) and Reece was flawed, therefore dangerous. He zatted Sam once too, because his job is to protect. Of course its all a matter of perception, this is how I perceive it, you perceive it in another way.

Mr Prophet
June 23rd, 2004, 11:29 PM
Jack shot Reese and then removed the battery from her neck.

I meant the first time. Why was she shut down when they found her?

bcmilco
June 23rd, 2004, 11:32 PM
I meant the first time. Why was she shut down when they found her?

Ah!

Didn't she say something about her "father" telling her to go to sleep? Maybe I'm remembering it wrong. :confused:

Edited to add:

REESE: My father knew there was danger. He told me to go to sleep. He said he would wake me when the danger went away.


Snagged this from the transcripts. Now this assumes she's telling the truth. ;)

Jill_Ion
July 10th, 2004, 03:14 PM
Both the Reese episode and Unnatural Selection made me think about what it is to be alive or sentient. The end of Unnatural Selection still bugs me. I wonder if Jack traded one problem for another? Yes, he solved the issue of the potential danger of taking an Advanced Replicator out of the time bubble in the short term, but in the long term, this very "human" Rep. has now experienced betrayal, which could completely mess him up and turn what appeared to be a "good" Rep into a "bad" Rep. Maybe cuz they expect the time bubble to last for thousands of years, Jack figures the issue will be solved long after everyone is dust?

Still, it bugs me that Sam had to lie to Fifth, even if it was the best thing (in the short term) for SG-1. It's like when Jack killed Reese. It may have been the right thing to do, but it didn't sit well with me. Guess that's why he's the colonel and I'm the viewer, eh? ;)

I guess I'm an optimist and try to believe people (or machines) when they say things. Not that I want myself or the troops defending our planet to be gullible, but I think in both situations Jack was a little quick on the trigger. I'm not saying he was out of character, though, just making a decision I may not have made in the same situation.

As for why the Advanced Reps looked like humans, well, the obvious reason is for FX savings and getting some cool actors on the show. And they explained it by saying they wanted to look like their creator, Reese. (Problem though, with none of them being black, but I'm sure they weren't concerned about Earth's race relations.) But I sometimes see the "to be advanced we have to be like humans" concept rather arrogant. Kinda like Data from Star Trek:TNG always wanting to be "human." Yeah, being human is pretty neat most of the time, but I sure don't think we're the endall and beall of the Universe. Especially considering all of the neat creatures we've "met" through SG-1, Star Trek, Star Wars, etc.

Take care!

aAnubiSs
July 11th, 2004, 06:42 AM
I would have liked the Replicators to stay non-human. There's something to like about an ememy that doesn't care about feelings, moral... and sex ~~

Selmak
July 11th, 2004, 07:22 AM
Didn't they become human to replicate that girl.

ShadowMaat
July 11th, 2004, 07:26 AM
I've always said that if the A.I. Wars ever started, I'd be siding with the machines. ;)

I, too, have issues with Jack's decision to abandon Fifth and while I understand all the rationalizations that have been spouted about why he did it and how he had "no choice" but to leave him behind, I'm never going to be entirely convinced and it still doesn't change the fact that it bothers me.

I felt the same way about Reese, too. She was trying to help when Jack barged in and "killed" her. I suppose that situation was a little more ambiguous due to communication, but I still didn't like it overmuch.

Someone said that they felt Jack was unsympathetic to android life- that even his own robo-self had to be dying before Jack would grudgingly admit that robo-SG-1 was just as alive/real as their human counterparts. I agree with that assessment. Jack's definition of "alive" seems to be narrowed specifically to creatures of flesh and blood. It's another reason that his character has fallen out of favor in my eyes.

Vague spoilers for S8 New Order
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Of course, Jack's actions set things up nicely for a fantastic potential story arc in New Order, but at the time Unnatural Selection was written, TPTB didn't know if there'd be another season. If S7 had been the end, then Fifth and the others would have been forever trapped by the time dilation device. It seems like an awfully harsh end for a very "human" character, regardless of what his brethren were like.

I shall be curious to see how (or even if) this storyline gets developed...

Selmak
July 15th, 2004, 09:18 PM
First kinda looks like jack to me... in a weird way.

Selmak
July 26th, 2004, 08:26 PM
The replicators actually become evil... before they were just bugs replicating

Liv
August 19th, 2004, 02:07 PM
I just have to point out that that look on Teal'c:s face when Jack tries to eat from his food canister (is it ice-cream?) is about the funniest thing ever. I could not stop laughing. It´s a good thing I wasn´t eating anything at that particular moment cause I might have choked on it. Priceless. :D

SeaBee
September 19th, 2004, 08:47 AM
I just have to point out that that look on Teal'c:s face when Jack tries to eat from his food canister (is it ice-cream?) is about the funniest thing ever. I could not stop laughing. It´s a good thing I wasn´t eating anything at that particular moment cause I might have choked on it. Priceless. :D
Oh yes, I have to agree. I always have trouble listening to the speech on this scene, because I always end up watching the slapstick like byplay between Jack and Teal'c.

Madeleine
October 18th, 2004, 06:17 AM
This episode really was good. It was the best ep all season not to feature firemen or wonky gravity.

It almost seemed like two different episodes. The initial stuff was light in every way and the later stuff was dark, and oddly the stuff on the enclosed ship felt very open compared to the claustrophobic feel as soon as they reached the planet's surface.

I liked the stuff on the ship. Especially the scene that Teal'c just OWNED despite not having a line :D

I was apprehensive once I realised that there were human replicators. I loathed the whole idea of the Borg Queen and the execution thereof, it made the whole concept of the Borg mean a lot less than when they were all equal and equally automaton-like in their soulless hives. I was very surprised to find myself liking the humanoid Reps after a few short minutes. I think it helped that Reese's story in Menace was such a good one, and that the Lego bugs did have a vaguely sensible reason for building themselves some people. I wonder how much of Reese's father and neighbours is in First and co. There certainly was plenty of Reese in Fifth, which was great. He's a jolly good actor. The moment when he realised he was betrayed was surprisingly heart-rending considering he was an OC of only 30 mins standing.

Sam was on-form, doing her best Lots Of Science And Minimal Technobabble stuff. (I like my SF to have S in it, but if the S is to be as unscientific as Stargate's is (no insult intended) then I like it to make sense in short English words, cos anything else is a sign of Lack Of Imagination causing the writer to rustle up a quick Deus Ex Machina.) The Asgard slowed time, the Lego sped it up, and Sam's going to slow it down again, hurrah.

And it's always nice when a favourite episode gets a follow up, but that's for another thread...

Lord Zedd
October 20th, 2004, 02:18 PM
yeah it was indeed a good episode lots a replicators! and we saw the prometheus again and Thor allways a pleasure when the Asgard pay us a visit

LMichelle
November 23rd, 2004, 12:35 PM
Okay, now I understand about Fifth.

Good episode. I liked that it was left open-ended.

Yu`
February 8th, 2005, 03:22 AM
I like this episode all the way untill the end. God Fifth was a really bad character I hope I dont see him in future.

One of the low points for me seeing SG1 didnt resolve the problem Fifth did.

Jeril
February 16th, 2005, 06:09 PM
There certainly was plenty of Reese in Fifth, which was great. He's a jolly good actor. The moment when he realised he was betrayed was surprisingly heart-rending considering he was an OC of only 30 mins standing.
Yeah, I just saw the last 15-ish minutes of this episode and it remains among my top favorites, if not my favorite of all time.
Gods... I want to cry!! I feel so sympathetic towards Fifth, even when in S8 he goes all wacky. I watched Jack at the end of this episode and all I'm thinking is "You unfeeling *******!!" I can't believe he did that. Poor Fifth. :( I just want to reach in at the end when it focuses on his sad, lost little puppy dog face and give him a big hug and tell him everything's gonna be okay because in S8, he'll get his own personal Carter to play with. ;)

About Gemini, I hope Fifth's not dead for good. I love that character. He's so pretty and out of control. :D I want to see more of him!!

Easter Lily
February 19th, 2005, 04:53 PM
You know... I never realised how good Season 6 was/is...
Now that I'm revisiting it on DVD and watching them continuously (with hindsight)... all I can is "Wow, it really goes places". I'm really *ahem* surprised *cough* at how good it is... and am beginning to understand why people aren't so happy about the characterization of Carter in subsequent seasons...

Unnatural Selection... not exactly a touchy feely episode, is it? A morass of ethical issues being raised, and as others have said, it shows another side to this gungho military thing.

I really like Carter here... I like the fact that in spite of her military and scientific background, she is still fundamentally a human being... I don't always get that from Carter... More often than not I feel that she's just a humanized gobbledegook machine but in this episode, I see a tender side, her obvious discomfort in following Jack's orders and the look in her eyes at the end of the episode that all is not well with the universe.

Jonas... I've always liked... yes, in some ways he fills that role vacated by Daniel but I think he makes it his own. He is the conscience of the team now and has the gumption to say what Carter is thinking but dares not say.

The episode certainly throws a different light on Jack... for him, I suggest, the world is black and white. Perhaps it is easier for him to see things in those terms having been in the military for as long as he has and seen more horrors than most of us can ever even begin to imagine. He has to rationalize the situation in his terms... I pity him... that look on his face at the end highlights so well the dilemma... the second thoughts may be having.

I am uncomfortable with Jack's decision but I know we're meant to be... it definitely opens up a whole can of worms regarding the sanctity of sentient life even with amoral beings such as the replicators.

SilverRider
February 22nd, 2005, 11:03 PM
I don't really agree with Jack's Decision in this ep, but i can understand why he chose to leave Fifth Behind.

If you looked at it from his view, they are pretedors (Sp?). I mean even Fifth was different, he still had the knowaldge of how make another "Human" like replicator. He could have build the army of his own and who knows what could have happened....

That's the way i see it, *hides behind Davis to make sure no one grills her :p *

splifficated
February 23rd, 2005, 06:21 AM
I think Jack made the right decision, although it certainly was a difficult one to watch, but .... Fifth was a risk, a huge one. He alone could make who knows how many more replicators, and the galaxy could end up back where it started. Jack isn't the type of person who can leave that kind of risk out there.

Madeleine
February 23rd, 2005, 08:36 PM
I think it was more than that Fifth was a risk that made Jack leave him behind. I don't think they had time to go back for him, not when the galaxy was at stake.

Thinking about Jack's stony face at the end; I've always thought that he looked grim because he knew that leaving Fifth behind was a betrayal (justifiable and necessary, but still a betrayal). But maybe he's looking grim because he's wondering: what if I'd had to leave one of my *team* behind, to save the galaxy?

yasureubetcha
February 24th, 2005, 01:47 AM
This is my favorite ep. ever, because of the moral dilemma, and because you KNOW Fifth will show up again, for vengeance. The knowledge that SG1 has just made a super-powerful enemy, and that from this point forward, they pretty much deserve whatever they get at the hands of the replicators, adds to the already gorgeous tension created by the betrayal. Plus I love Fifth, and the new dimension his character adds to the replicators. That they can be driven by some purpose other than their self-replication programming, and that SG1 was the deciding force in whether that potential will be benign or vengeful, is an incredible twist.

But it is interesting to note that Jack, whose convictions were strong enough to cause Kanan to return for the slave who helped him infiltrate Baal's fortress, doesn't feel bound by the same considerations when he's dealing with someone who could potentially be a threat to Earth.

Hex.FTB.enabled
February 24th, 2005, 10:14 AM
The best thing about this episode: they finally made the replicators cool. I know a lot of the Star Trek people compare them to the borg, but c'mon the little techno-locusts weren't that scary. 1st creeped me out. I love how the writers and Patrick Currie played 5th. It's like you got to see (between this, New Rising, and Gemini) what would happen to a child raised VERY wrong. One of season 6 best episodes.

Willow
February 26th, 2005, 07:23 AM
I think Jack made the right decision, although it certainly was a difficult one to watch, but .... Fifth was a risk, a huge one. He alone could make who knows how many more replicators, and the galaxy could end up back where it started. Jack isn't the type of person who can leave that kind of risk out there.
************

Agreed.

Luneria
February 27th, 2005, 06:46 PM
cher hair :D

PugGate
May 2nd, 2005, 05:53 PM
- Freakiest/most awesome line ever: "To come forth"

-That asgard mothership is so freakin' cool. It seems like Thor is the only one on the ship. Does it only take one person to command one of those things?

-I wonder if the Replicators would use the stargate for travel or if they woul eat it.

-I wish they would have shown what the replicator's saw when they looked into Teal'c's head

-Fifth put everyone in a chair except for Jonas after their first session. Funny :D

-The Replicator's are in an Asgard temple? Does this mean the asgard have a religion?

Mr Prophet
May 3rd, 2005, 08:59 AM
-The Replicator's are in an Asgard temple? Does this mean the asgard have a religion?

I thought it was a Replicator temple. Which, when you think about it, scarier.

QuiGonJohn
June 12th, 2005, 06:26 AM
Both the Reese episode and Unnatural Selection made me think about what it is to be alive or sentient. The end of Unnatural Selection still bugs me. I wonder if Jack traded one problem for another? Yes, he solved the issue of the potential danger of taking an Advanced Replicator out of the time bubble in the short term, but in the long term, this very "human" Rep. has now experienced betrayal, which could completely mess him up and turn what appeared to be a "good" Rep into a "bad" Rep.

That's what I was wondering. Does Fifth become the main bad guy replicator who we see later, (in Season 8).


I just have to point out that that look on Teal'c:s face when Jack tries to eat from his food canister (is it ice-cream?) is about the funniest thing ever.

I thought so too. Then he gives Jack his own container. Then when he's eaten almost all of his, he swaps it with Jacks.

LuvsJonasQuinn
August 9th, 2005, 01:45 AM
It was great to see the team pull together to try to help Thor and the Asgard. Loved Jonas, Teal'c, and Jack eating ice cream and talking. It was great how Jack kept having Jonas practice with the gun because he wanted to make sure he'd be okay. And I volunteer to give Jonas some first aid and TLC to deal with those blisters he said he was getting. :D I felt bad for Fifth because he was so hurt by being left behind. I did like how Jonas and Sam were questioning the decision and realized that they used Fifth's own humanity against him..

MasySyma
August 10th, 2005, 06:53 PM
I'm finally making myself go back and watch Season 6. I tuned out for over a year due to a loss of showtime in late Season 5 followed by a loss of Daniel in Season 6.

I've got to admit that this episode rocks. Admittedly, I'm only halfway through the season, so my vote is still out. However, this episode was well done, and I felt for Fifth more than Jack.

Especially in Season 6, Jack appears to have trouble with alien beings, Jonas, Fifth, etc., which is ironic given that his best buddy is Teal'c and that he introduced the world to Thor. Yes, Fifth was a risk, but Jack's decision appeared cold blooded. When he looked guilty at the end of the episode, I was thinking "Good. Maybe he'll learn something."

It seems that Jack made the same mistake with the replicators twice. He also failed to see the goodness in the android (I forget her name) who created the replicators. Just a few more moments between the android and Daniel might have prevented the entire replicator problem.

It is an excellent episode because it creates so many things to ponder . . .

jannagalaxy
August 11th, 2005, 09:33 AM
It was great to see the team pull together to try to help Thor and the Asgard. Loved Jonas, Teal'c, and Jack eating ice cream and talking. It was great how Jack kept having Jonas practice with the gun because he wanted to make sure he'd be okay. And I volunteer to give Jonas some first aid and TLC to deal with those blisters he said he was getting. :D I felt bad for Fifth because he was so hurt by being left behind. I did like how Jonas and Sam were questioning the decision and realized that they used Fifth's own humanity against him..

Must agree. I loved that last scene when Jonas and Sam were both upset. Sam more than Jonas. Excellent.

Stricken
September 8th, 2005, 06:14 AM
I like this episode all the way untill the end. God Fifth was a really bad character I hope I dont see him in future.

Perriman33
September 21st, 2005, 07:22 AM
No not another ship lost to the Asgard, how did they ever become powerful? I have to presume it's the cloning thats made them stupid.Thats why they don't wear shoes they can't work out how to tie them up! (only joking you gotta love them) :D
The new replicators were a bit scary especially when they stuck their hands into the teams heads. I'm surprised there aren't more of them though, they've had plenty of time to make loads. You just gotta wonder what they get upto when theres nobody about.
FIRST-I spy with my little eye something beginning with R.

FIFTH-erm...could it be Replicator block.

FIRST- Doh!
Poor old fifth! :(

Metarock Sam
September 22nd, 2005, 02:49 PM
ITs good that they used time decelleration to slow down thier development an ingenious way that hadnt been looked up on SG-1 since a matter of time.

walter_MacChevron
October 31st, 2005, 08:24 PM
A pretty darn good episode and hello fifth!

Nem2k
November 18th, 2005, 03:39 PM
I loved the episode because of this whole moral, ethical issue, did they do the right thing? I dont know but let me throw something else out there

What really got me thinking was how First thought that Fifth was flawed. His 'flaw' was that he was too human. Like Jonas said, we used his humanity against him so in a way we saw that as a weakness in him, so does that mean on some level SG-1 were agreeing with the replicators about humanity being a weakness?

Another thing, someone said that Jack only did what he did due to self preservation, ensuring that replicators dont make it to earth now that they have the iris code
Self preservation...its interesting that Jack did what he did to preserve his own life and life on his planet because thats exactly what replicators are programmed to do. Programmed for self preservation and replication at all costs.
So at the end of the day, SG-1 saw that 5th was flawed and used his humanity against him, and Jack made the call to leave him behind to preserve human life.
What is really getting me thinking is that we're starting to sound a lot like the replicators. The team were starting to do things, to think about things in the same way as the bugs, so when you think about it, are we really any better than they are?

I love this episode because its some very clever story writing, big thumbs up to brad wright and rob cooper for this episode, it was done very well

kitkatgur1
March 20th, 2006, 04:21 PM
OK, i have several "technical" questions about this episode....
1st: How could the replicators keep replicating if they have consumed all the raw material on Halla already....what's the point of staying on Halla if they have no food to eat...
2nd: How did they make at least 6 humanoid replicators with so little neutronium (as far as i know, the only neutronium was the casing of the shell on the device)
3rd: The episode doesn't even show Reese's body on the planet, Halla....so why does everyone assume when the replicators found her body, that's how they created humanoid replicators in her image....where is her body?
4th: how do the humanoid replicators plan on staying there another 2yrs. without any raw materials to consume....they won't have the army First says they will without more replicators...
5th: Why don't the replicators just leave the time-dilation bubble? If time is moving faster, they have all the time in the world to get out....if they have enough replicators, they should leave....why dont they?

Callista
February 12th, 2007, 09:27 PM
I love this episode.

I don't think Jack is out of character at all. I suspect this is what Jack would naturally be like if his team-mates didn't have time to talk him out of things (like Carter didn't have time to say anything in this instance without blowing the whole thing). This is the Jack I find intriguing....troubled, military, special ops, doing the thing that is best for his side. It shows that he can be more than just a confused, wise-cracking guy along for the ride with a bunch of people who are smarter than he is. (Don't get me wrong, I enjoy funny Jack, but I think he hides his darkness and depth behind the constant one-liners.) He has some serious faults....or, conversely, he is a really great leader....depending on whether or not you agree with him.

And, I love Fifth. He did a great job of seeming innocent and creepy all at the same time. He's so wonderfully naive and trusting. Maybe the other replicators are right and he does have a strong flaw, just like Reese had a strong flaw....childlike but extremely dangerous.

I love that we're left wondering who's creepier, Jack or Fifth. (Of course, we'll find out in a couple of years.)

tedpon
April 16th, 2007, 01:52 AM
hi gaters,..im a nugater,..i missed that episode[saw the first 10 mins]hdd stopped recording,...i cant find it anywhere,...anyone know where i can d,load it and pay per episode?i went on a link to some INDIA site that offered d,loads for £1.99 per show,..but couldent find sg1 any where,some indian sters but no sign of it,...please help,tedpon..:) ::hammond: :D

Two_L's
April 27th, 2007, 06:35 AM
I really liked this episode. Did Jack do the right thing? It's great when Stargate leaves a show open like this one, allowing the audience to decide who they agree with.



It's not so much that Jack did the right thing, only what was necessary. IMHO his willingness to bear the burden of conscience for the others bespeaks a special brand of nobility.

Agreed. The way the camera shows Jack at the end says to me that while he might say all these strong words about how they did the right thing, it seems that he was just trying to convince himself as much as Carter, Jonas and Teal'c and that inside he was just as uncertain and possibly ashamed at leaving Fifth behind. When it came down to it, if they had waited the 5 minutes that Carter promised Fifth, SG-1 might never have made it out of there and they would have had their memories explored again and again. Look at the memory First was forcing Jack to relive, and then he went on to telling Jack it was his fault for what happened to Charlie. As much as I liked Fifth, I don't blame O'Neill for wanting to get out of there. When it finished, I wasn't sure who I felt more sorry for, Fifth because he wanted to do the right thing and had so much faith in Carter's word, or Jack who had to make a difficult decision and then bear the brunt of everyone's judgments.


I just have to point out that that look on Teal'c:s face when Jack tries to eat from his food canister (is it ice-cream?) is about the funniest thing ever. I could not stop laughing. It´s a good thing I wasn´t eating anything at that particular moment cause I might have choked on it. Priceless. :D


Oh yes, I have to agree. I always have trouble listening to the speech on this scene, because I always end up watching the slapstick like byplay between Jack and Teal'c.

:lol: Teal'c is hilarious in this scene! I totally missed what Jonas was saying cause the look on Teal'c's face was making me laugh too much. :p

garhkal
April 27th, 2007, 11:19 AM
I wish they would have revisited sam and jack's 'trust issue' with one another after this. I felt sam's capitulation to jacks' reasoning too quick.. to easy. I felt she should have (or would have) stood her ground more..

Two_L's
April 30th, 2007, 05:37 AM
Yes, me too. I find that sometimes issues like that come up during or at the end of an episode, but then there is no mention of it in the following episode, or ever again. I also would have liked to see Sam's feelings in regard to Jack leaving Fifth behind explored a bit further.

First
June 7th, 2007, 07:52 PM
There was no option but to leave Fifth behind, although SG1 didn't know that at the time. Fifth was caught by the others before he was due to escape, and the others would've had two minutes to stop the countdown.

When this episode began, I expected another action packed episode, with the "primitive" humans and their projectile weapons defeating mechanical bugs on behalf of the "superior" Asgard. Once we met the human form replicators, things changed. They are damn scary! Immune to all our weapons and able to read our minds. The setting was very creepy and the situation gave a sense of "we've got no hope this time!"
I thought First was a particularly great bad guy (there's a shock ;)) Intelligent, articulate, and just brutally cold as a machine would be, yet strangely still well mannered.

First:"The only reason we're keeping you alive so we can probe your mind again and again....."
That comment just creeped me out.

majorsal
June 7th, 2007, 07:56 PM
Yes, me too. I find that sometimes issues like that come up during or at the end of an episode, but then there is no mention of it in the following episode, or ever again. I also would have liked to see Sam's feelings in regard to Jack leaving Fifth behind explored a bit further.

me too, especially when it resulted in 'new order' with fifth capturing and torturing her. if i were jack, i'd have felt some guilt in that it was partially my fault.



sally :)

majorsal
June 7th, 2007, 07:59 PM
First:"The only reason we're keeping you alive so we can probe your mind again and again....."
That comment just creeped me out.

got to wonder what that would have done to their minds/brains too...

i read a fic once where jonas and sam were recaptured by the human reps, and sam especially was probed and tortued over and over... it was damaging her brain. she was rescued before the damage was permanent... great fic. :p




sally :D

Chezlee
January 20th, 2008, 08:38 PM
Im not touching the ethical dilemmas in this ep. but I will say one thing...

Leave it to Teal'c to love ice cream like a pregnant woman :D

StargateSG8
May 22nd, 2008, 11:29 AM
just watched this episode, im laughing at the idea how tealc wouldnt share his ice cream and the look on his face!:)
one thing that was confusing, at the end, the other replicator models knew what was happening, yet instead of saying how the failure no.5 was, why didnt they just stop the timer?

smurf
May 22nd, 2008, 04:39 PM
just watched this episode, im laughing at the idea how tealc wouldnt share his ice cream and the look on his face!:)
one thing that was confusing, at the end, the other replicator models knew what was happening, yet instead of saying how the failure no.5 was, why didnt they just stop the timer?
They believed they had plenty of time to stop the timer - because that was what Fifth was told - so they probably felt they had no need to rush.

StargateSG8
May 22nd, 2008, 10:28 PM
They believed they had plenty of time to stop the timer - because that was what Fifth was told - so they probably felt they had no need to rush.


no no.1 knew that sam set the timer for 3mins, he even said something about having much less time when no.5 said 'there is still 2mins left on the timer'...or something like that anyway.

smurf
May 23rd, 2008, 12:51 PM
no no.1 knew that sam set the timer for 3mins, he even said something about having much less time when no.5 said 'there is still 2mins left on the timer'...or something like that anyway.
No, First knew SG-1 were escaping but he says;
"It’s not too late. I can read your mind. There’s time enough to stop the machine."
Fifth's 2 minutes comment is referring to SG-1 not leaving yet.

Although why First wasn't too bothered about them escaping is a whole different question... :confused:

captain jake
July 5th, 2008, 02:13 AM
What they did to Fifth was both morally wrong and amazingly stupid. If they would have brought Fifth with them willingly the Asgard could have figure out a way to take out the replicators permanently rather than tying them up for a while. It was a good move that would insure the temporary disabling of the replicators, however the long term repercussions were incalculable.

Daisy1974
October 19th, 2008, 11:22 AM
I saw this episode the other night and it seemed like O'Neill was really hesitant to help Thor. Why was that? My first thought was the ship SG-1 was in was not fully finished and any damage could probably be fatal, my second thought was that maybe he was not sure how to help Thor and the Asgard and needed more time to think about it.

YutheGreat
November 2nd, 2008, 07:45 PM
This was the first episode I saw and I really enjoied it because it wasn't a clear "victory" for the good guys. I liked the fact that it made me stop and think... "Was that really the right thing to do?", "Was it the moral thing?".

I liked the fact that they left it open ended.

When a TV show gets me to stop and think I sit up and take notice. :)

I agree. For a time I thought I feel sorry for Fifth but at the same time if the replicators escaped all galaxies will be wiped out by the replicators. Ida, Milky way and Pegasus even the Ori galaxy will be wiped out and all the voids between will be filled with replicators. Even the Asurans will be at the mercy of these replicators

They are the single most unstoppable force in the galaxy

Randy_Watson
November 9th, 2008, 06:08 AM
Although why First wasn't too bothered about them escaping is a whole different question... :confused:

Because time is rather insignificant to a replicator, and this way allowed them to get their ideas of the evils of humanity through to Fifth.

Hornet
November 23rd, 2008, 01:51 AM
The way I see it, its either they leave 5th behind or they all get caught, and its game over for SG-1. There's really only 1 path the story can go. Unless of course they rewrite the situation, where Mr Fifth cannot be detected or whatever, but that would be a pretty typical happy ending.

What I like about Stargate SG1 here is that its not always the everyone-live-happily-ever-after ending. Sacrifices must be made, not all the good guys must always be saved

If everything is so ethical in Stargate and no good guys die, then its boring and is no different from other series out there.

Butlersgate
March 14th, 2009, 08:36 AM
The way I see it, its either they leave 5th behind or they all get caught, and its game over for SG-1. There's really only 1 path the story can go. Unless of course they rewrite the situation, where Mr Fifth cannot be detected or whatever, but that would be a pretty typical happy ending.

What I like about Stargate SG1 here is that its not always the everyone-live-happily-ever-after ending. Sacrifices must be made, not all the good guys must always be saved

If everything is so ethical in Stargate and no good guys die, then its boring and is no different from other series out there.

that's what i love about it too, this episode was full of ethical dilemmas which is enjoyable imo

Dinoman
March 26th, 2009, 04:37 PM
Although Jack told everyone that he has done the right thing, I don't think he really believes so. It's hard to make a life-and-death decision for the team and more sad if they do not realize that it's for their own goods. For Sam and Teal'c they have had enough adventures with Jack that they would understand his true motive behind, but it could be doubtful for Jonas.

I always think that if Daniel was there he would has a brilliant debate over the Fifth thing with Jack, and he might probably talk him into bringing him along.

For funny moments, the ice-cream scene is hilarious, also the moment when Jack told Sam that the SGC would not allow him to name the ship 'The Enterprise', he looks like a kid.

The Stig
May 15th, 2009, 12:44 PM
one of those episodes that make you think about what you would have done. personally iwould have agreed with jack.

balo
May 20th, 2009, 07:53 AM
It was a good episode with lots of replicators!

:replicatoranime01:

Jack did the right thing , leaving Fifth behind. Now I think we'll see more of Fifth later ;)

The icecream scene was hilarious :indeed:

Rating : 8 / 10

plague
June 5th, 2009, 05:57 PM
Jack was willing to leave Fifth because he refuses to see anything mechanical as having a right to life. His robot double had to die before he could accept that maybe it had been alive and he never had the slightest interest in reasoning with Reese.

I'm sorry but I do not agree. It's a matter of risk evaluation. Taking fifth with them is a very high risk. He is a replicator. Like Reese, he may build replicators that he would believe that he can control and if he loses, the galaxy will become infested by them.

Or in another situation, if he gets angry or throws a tantrum, nobody can stop him. Because conventional weapons or any other weapon (until they built the ancient weapon) does not have any effect on human replicators. So if fifth decides to act by his natural behavior, it will create a problem in the galaxy that nobody will be able to handle. It is a risk not worth taking. Basically fifth is like a supernova that has not blown up and risking the chance of exposing the galaxy to him is not wise.

It was a hard decision but I think Jack made the right choice in the end.

As for robots, if Jack didn't think their mechanical doubles are not life forms, he would have had them blown up. He did agree not to send a bomb after them as long as they lived peacefully without interfering with other life forms.

UniverseSizePlotHole
October 23rd, 2009, 03:59 AM
The icecream scene was hilarious :indeed:

Jonas practises reloading P-90 "My hands are covered in blisters - they aren't going to work any faster"
Was that because of the icecream? :jack_new_anime18:

FN-P90
December 14th, 2009, 08:40 AM
Great Episode. The end of it also makes you think about what they did and if it was really the right thing to do.

gateship15
December 14th, 2009, 02:13 PM
great episode

Ilana
January 28th, 2010, 07:38 AM
I hate to echo what everyone has been saying on this thread, but having seen this episode more than once, I have to say the the dilemma they faced in the end was difficult as well as truly heartbreaking. Although O'Neill made the right the decision, I imagine it was one of the most difficult ones he had to make, esp. being well aware of what Carter and Jonas felt about it. The actor who played 5th conveyed such a deep sense of betrayal at the end...

Pharaoh Atem
January 28th, 2010, 03:01 PM
I hate to echo what everyone has been saying on this thread, but having seen this episode more than once, I have to say the the dilemma they faced in the end was difficult as well as truly heartbreaking. Although O'Neill made the right the decision, I imagine it was one of the most difficult ones he had to make, esp. being well aware of what Carter and Jonas felt about it. The actor who played 5th conveyed such a deep sense of betrayal at the end...

but it was necessary but everyone involed did a good job playing that scene

Ilana
January 29th, 2010, 07:53 AM
Yes...and I think the fact that we're talking about that aspect of it endlessly shows what good writing that was. The situation was incredibly poignant.

mrscopterdoc
March 23rd, 2010, 12:22 PM
What a great episode. Moral dilemas....and ice cream too :P

Copper4ever
May 23rd, 2010, 11:54 AM
That was the saddest episode ever. The actor portrayed such sadness. It broke my heart and nearly brought me to tears. I still deny it was the right thing to do, and after watching it several times believe that there would have been another way.

MintyRoadkill
August 8th, 2010, 03:39 PM
You'd think that if the time dilation field could be reversed that the asgard would have done that instead to give themselves more time to come up with solutions instead of trying to slow down the replicators, which is much less likely to work.

Petra
August 22nd, 2010, 02:48 AM
I wrote this post for the S/J Ship Discussion thread, but thought I'd repost it here - minus all the S/J stuff, so this is pure gen :)

To get it out of my head I’d like to say now that before this rewatch I’d never noticed that Tahmon Penikett (Helo from BSG) plays Third! Wow.

I tend to see Unnatural Selection as a mirror reflection of WoO. WoO was a lighthearted comedic episode with a pretty dark, poignant scene at the end while US is a pretty dark, philosophical episode that starts in a light, humorous even, way. Both are team-y, but with distinct focus on Jack. Both even reference Charlie and deal with time machines.

US starts on a slightly disappointing note. Big cliffhanger from Prometheus is dealt with in a matter of seconds – quite anticlimactic really - while Thor lays out his plan how to defeat the Replicators. Points for TPTB for hanging lantern on how crazy it is and then in true Stargate fashion proceeding to implement it anyway. Another point for nice call back to Small Victories:

Thor: A task for which you are uniquely suited.
O'Neill: You need someone dumb enough.

and yet another for delightful little scenes reminding us why we care about these characters so much: mention of Hammond’s grandchildren (call back to Crystal Skull; and how sweet is that they are no. 1 on his speed-dial?), Sam and Jack’s discussion about what would be a proper name for the ship, the ice cream scene.

I also find it interesting that a short scene establishing that Jonas had received military training – or at the very least “how to handle P-90” training - was included (we’ve never seen Daniel learning how to handle guns). Jack’s harsh attitude reminds me of how he was behaving in Proving Ground towards recruits. I like how Jonas doesn’t exactly snap at Jack, but isn’t afraid to let him know that he's being pushed too much.

Fast-forwarding a little to the first meeting with the Replicators in human form, I admit that I like this development, but only on SG-1. I love Fifth/RepliCarter storylines in season 8 and I love how menacing human form replicators are in this episode but I believe that bringing them over to SGA was a mistake. Oh well. Continuing random thoughts, I also find it a little weird that the Replicators created themselves into Reece’s image and yet none of them is dark-skinned.

That first meeting is also the only moment of the ep that doesn’t quite work for me. I just don’t buy that our notoriously suspicious and secretive Jack would spill his guts and unasked divulge mission objective to unknown life forms that weren’t detected by any sensors and show up in one place they shouldn’t be able to live. Sam, Teal’c and Jonas wouldn’t do it either, that was always Daniel’s "job" and this is the one moment in the entire season when I think he was evidently needed. Fortunately it’s just a brief moment and the shooting without any warning that ensues is completely IC. I love how Jack is the first to stop and lower his weapon when he realizes that bullets have no effect. For some strange reason his surrender reminds me of him lowering his weapon first as a show of good faith in Cor’Ai (s1). And then First puts his hand into his head.

This is my biggest complaint about US. It should have been a 2 parter – or a 3-parter, if we include Prometheus. I can’t believe the writers missed out on such opportunity! First says he and Jack are to visit every place Jack’s ever been and then..nothing happens. We don’t get to see anything. I still remember my profound disappointment the first time I watched US. I’m still disappointed, all those years later. Jack and Jonas desperately needed some background (we don’t even know if they had families FCOL) and who’d have turned down the chance to learn something new about Sam and Teal’c? BW came up with a perfect way to delve into SG-1’s past before the program without any need to change or characterize actors and he did *nothing*. I’m a huge supporter of BW and his writing but this is probably the biggest mistake he’s ever done.

I don’t usually talk about visuals but in this case I think it’s necessary. I’m impressed by how the tone is set by colours. During the lighthearted part of the episode set on the ship colours, while darkish (it’s a ship after all), are clear and intense. Once on the planet they become dull and darker and darker. But the true masterpiece is presenting Jack’s subconsciousness as a dark, abandoned Gateroom with a surreal blue tinge. I know some fans complained that it was a rip-off of Meridian but I don’ think so. SGC is just as important to Jack as it is to Daniel, maybe even more so. And Daniel’s Gate room wasn’t as dark. Lights were dimmed, but they were there. In Jack’s version there are none. I think it conveys superbly how both men see themselves. Daniel believed his life was a failure but he didn’t doubt that he was a good man. Jack believes that his life has a purpose and he does right things, but that he isn’t a good enough person, as josiane said in her awesome review of Abyss. I imagine that his torture at Baal’s hands, the fact that Baal finally broke him, solidified this conviction.

Finally, some more random thoughts:

Sam and Teal’c claimed they didn’t remember anything from sharing their minds with the Replicators; Jonas said it was like a nightmare and Jack didn’t say anything. Is it possible that he and Jonas remembered what happened? And if so, why? Could it be because they were both more advanced human beings?

Sam is incredibly convincing when she wants/needs to be.

The last scene. Sam and Jonas clearly disagreed with Jack; interestingly Jonas even called him “sir” instead of his usual “Colonel” as if trying to distance himself. T’s silence was ambiguous but I think he was on Jack’s side. As the most experienced warrior of all of them he knew the risk as well as Jack did.

All in all, I believe that it’s one of the best and at the same time most underrated episodes Stargate’s ever done.

thekillman
August 22nd, 2010, 02:56 AM
i think it's an awesome episode but i never really agreed with the whole HFR thing. they're TOO powerful.

IMO stargate SG1 was always that enemy that you could beat, but more would step in. and it was sheer numbers and earth's lack of resources which made the enemy so strong. Goauld were beatable but every time they beat one, they got stronger. the Replicators don't get stronger from our bullets, but there are simply so many. i always love the "replicator storming" scenes. although it might seem tactically stupid, it's very effective as they only do it when even more are elsewhere, replicating.



i hadn't noticed Helo. that makes 3 Cylons.

Number One(as a Langaran), Eight(SGC recruit) and a member of the Final Five(as a replicator)

maneth
October 9th, 2010, 10:40 AM
Helo wasn't a cylon, you're probably getting him mixed up with Aaron Douglas (Chief Tyrol on BSG), who played Moac in Maternal Instinct and a Jaffa in Redemption pt. 2.

Loved it when O'Neill wanted to call the ship Enterprise, particularly since an episode in TNG is also called Unnatural Selection.

Loved this ep, very dramatic. I liked Fifth.

nanaki254
October 31st, 2010, 06:08 PM
I was rewatching this episode right after Prometheus (611) and one thing bothered me... what happened to the reporter / other people? when Thor came, there was no word of them at all... or did I miss something?

That aside, I loved this episode.

nanaki254
October 31st, 2010, 06:11 PM
Oh nevermind, Thor said he beamed them down to earth while he was "restocking" the ship

bbqbarbs
July 5th, 2011, 07:55 AM
I just have to point out that that look on Teal'c:s face when Jack tries to eat from his food canister (is it ice-cream?) is about the funniest thing ever. I could not stop laughing. It�s a good thing I wasn�t eating anything at that particular moment cause I might have choked on it. Priceless. :D

that is one of the funniest teal'c scenes. love it

Lunaeclipse
July 7th, 2011, 07:14 PM
I just have to point out that that look on Teal'c:s face when Jack tries to eat from his food canister (is it ice-cream?) is about the funniest thing ever. I could not stop laughing. It�s a good thing I wasn�t eating anything at that particular moment cause I might have choked on it. Priceless. :D

Teal'c has a very sophisticated sense of humour lol.

hedwig
July 9th, 2011, 02:13 PM
I saw this episode the other night and it seemed like O'Neill was really hesitant to help Thor. Why was that? My first thought was the ship SG-1 was in was not fully finished and any damage could probably be fatal, my second thought was that maybe he was not sure how to help Thor and the Asgard and needed more time to think about it.

Another reason for Jack's hesitation could just be that thus far the Asgard have done all the asking for help, and not yet repaying the debt to humans/Tau'ri. Each time Jack has suggested they could help earth with one of earth's problems, Thor has managed to weasel his way out of helping. Even though the Asgard are the ones that brought the replicator threat to earth in the first place. He even called it a small victory in "Small Victories" for the Asgard. But it was something huge for SG1 and he pretty much downplayed the effort they put into helping the Asgard.

And, then, because of SG1's help with First through Fifth and the time dilation problem, he has once again brought earth to the attention of the replicators by having SG1 come to the rescue of the Asgard.

majorsal
August 11th, 2011, 02:56 PM
i just finished with this ep on netflix. goood ep!! :D

loved the atmosphere of the episode. creepy, and very nice to see a real alien landscape. i wish the series would have done more of that.

poor fifth :S, but i think jack made the right decision. (just think about how fifth acted when he caught up with sam a couple of years later. :eek:)

garhkal
August 13th, 2011, 08:18 PM
The only reason 5th acted that way was cause he was betrayed.

Dave2
December 14th, 2011, 03:49 PM
Personally I don't see why the story had to leave a question mark about what O'Neil did to Fifth.
He was 100% correct, and I cannot understand what Jonas and even Sam thought the alternative would have been had they not lied to Fifth. Let those filthy creatures freeze for thousands of years, who cares?!!

jelgate
December 14th, 2011, 04:03 PM
Personally I don't see why the story had to leave a question mark about what O'Neil did to Fifth.
He was 100% correct, and I cannot understand what Jonas and even Sam thought the alternative would have been had they not lied to Fifth. Let those filthy creatures freeze for thousands of years, who cares?!!
Because Fifth did nothing wrong. We basically doomed him because he was a Replicator. We doomed him because of his ancestor's actions. On the other hand they other Replicators were all for destroying others so its a little ambigous

hedwig
December 14th, 2011, 04:34 PM
Personally I don't see why the story had to leave a question mark about what O'Neil did to Fifth.
He was 100% correct, and I cannot understand what Jonas and even Sam thought the alternative would have been had they not lied to Fifth. Let those filthy creatures freeze for thousands of years, who cares?!!

I agree completely. After all, they saw what happened with the Asgard and the replicators in "Nemesis" and "Small Victories", and then with Reese in "Menace". There was no doubt in my mind that there was no way she could be controlled and "handled" with her powers, regardless of how much Daniel wanted it to work out that way. She was too unpredictable and childlike and it wouldn't have taken hardly anything to set her off on a destructive spree. Jack was right in that episode, as well, and had no need to apologize to Daniel for what he did. Then, of course, there was the replicator experience in "Exodus"/"Enemies".

Jonas wasn't around for those experiences, but Sam certainly was, and as much as she's my favorite character, she should have known better than to think Fifth would be any different. Had they taken him back with them, there's no way it would not have devolved into a disaster. Obviously, he was just as unpredictable as Reese was. He was fine when he was in a good mood and decided he liked people. There's no way he could have been stopped once he decided otherwise and went on a rampage.

Yes, Fifth felt betrayed. But even if he hadn't felt that way, once he decided that he wanted something different, who would have been able to stop him?

Jack did the right thing as far as I'm concerned.

majorsal
December 14th, 2011, 05:31 PM
I

Jack did the right thing as far as I'm concerned.

i think jack did the right thing too. just look at how he reacted when he went for revenge on sam.

he might have done the same darkness if they'd brought him back with them. no matter how 'nice' fifth appeared, he still was made from the same bad ingredients. you'd never know if he'd turn on you.

well, they could have tried to reprogram him, but our ppl would never be sure if that programming would stick.

i don't know... i feel this kind of compassion for fifth, but he'd have to literally be taken apart, re-programmed, and then you'd have to hope the other human replicators wouldn't mess with him and create the prob all over again. :p

fems
December 15th, 2011, 06:19 AM
I agree completely. After all, they saw what happened with the Asgard and the replicators in "Nemesis" and "Small Victories", and then with Reese in "Menace". There was no doubt in my mind that there was no way she could be controlled and "handled" with her powers, regardless of how much Daniel wanted it to work out that way. She was too unpredictable and childlike and it wouldn't have taken hardly anything to set her off on a destructive spree. Jack was right in that episode, as well, and had no need to apologize to Daniel for what he did. Then, of course, there was the replicator experience in "Exodus"/"Enemies".

Jonas wasn't around for those experiences, but Sam certainly was, and as much as she's my favorite character, she should have known better than to think Fifth would be any different. Had they taken him back with them, there's no way it would not have devolved into a disaster. Obviously, he was just as unpredictable as Reese was. He was fine when he was in a good mood and decided he liked people. There's no way he could have been stopped once he decided otherwise and went on a rampage.

Yes, Fifth felt betrayed. But even if he hadn't felt that way, once he decided that he wanted something different, who would have been able to stop him?

Jack did the right thing as far as I'm concerned.

I agree with you, but I also think that while Sam should have known better with all her experience this particular situation and her reaction to it shows that she still has a bit of naivety, innocence or hope. That despite everything she's gone through since joining the SGC there is still a bit of that innocent bright-eyed bushy-tailed captain in her, unlike Jack who's seen and done a lot more in his years in the military and is far more realistic and cynical in that aspect.

Plus I think the fact that Jack basically ordered her to lie and betray Fifth also played a big part in it; that's just not who she is and it seems she still struggles with the darker side of their careers, where she has to make decisions and do things she's not comfortable with at all.

hedwig
December 15th, 2011, 06:38 AM
I agree with you, but I also think that while Sam should have known better with all her experience this particular situation and her reaction to it shows that she still has a bit of naivety, innocence or hope. That despite everything she's gone through since joining the SGC there is still a bit of that innocent bright-eyed bushy-tailed captain in her, unlike Jack who's seen and done a lot more in his years in the military and is far more realistic and cynical in that aspect.

Plus I think the fact that Jack basically ordered her to lie and betray Fifth also played a big part in it; that's just not who she is and it seems she still struggles with the darker side of their careers, where she has to make decisions and do things she's not comfortable with at all.

All true. However, Sam is in the military (for approx. 8 years by this time, counting the year before CotG and the two years prior to that at the Pentagon that she mentions) and whether she likes it or not she knows there are orders she's going to have to follow that she doesn't like. There have been several instances of that in the prior episodes. A couple examples being following General Bauer's order to get that bomb ready to experiment with in "Chain Reaction". Another being turning the naquada generator into a bomb in "Scorched Earth". She doesn't seem to have any trouble expressing her disapproval in these orders though, since she was clearly unhappy with Bauer and Jack in those episodes. :)

fems
December 15th, 2011, 09:23 AM
All true. However, Sam is in the military (for approx. 8 years by this time, counting the year before CotG and the two years prior to that at the Pentagon that she mentions) and whether she likes it or not she knows there are orders she's going to have to follow that she doesn't like. There have been several instances of that in the prior episodes. A couple examples being following General Bauer's order to get that bomb ready to experiment with in "Chain Reaction". Another being turning the naquada generator into a bomb in "Scorched Earth". She doesn't seem to have any trouble expressing her disapproval in these orders though, since she was clearly unhappy with Bauer and Jack in those episodes. :)

True, but in this case she probably realized (in the back of her mind) that Jack was right and thus didn't voice her disapproval as strongly as she did back then. And the two years prior to the SGC don't really count seeing as how it was spent at the Pentagon... it's not really being out in the field and dealing with such situations.

LeftHandedGuitarist
December 22nd, 2011, 12:26 PM
I hate the human-form replicator plot line (it turns an already dull enemy into an enemy with even less personality), but got wrapped up in this episode a little more than I expected to. And that's because of Fifth, SG-1 betrayal of him struck an emotional chord within me. They probably did do the right thing, but Patrick Currie's performance and innocence really makes you feel sorry for him.

Otherwise, an utterly uninteresting episode easily forgotten (the ice cream scene being an exception). I didn't expect to see Helo from Battlestar, though!

RATING: 6.5 out of 10

Matt G
January 13th, 2012, 03:05 PM
I stick a VHS in my Halls of Res machine...

1. Rewatching it you sort of forget how long it takes for this ep to seriously get going.

2. It's also wierd how it has hardly 'any' connection to "Prometheus" yet it's meant to be a two parter.

3. Once it gets going though..."we are Replicators..." I remember hearing about these guys but that ice-cool voice and the "projectile weapons" being no use whatsoever. :jack_new_anime05:

4. And then we've got the whole thing with Fifth...an interesting mess, in the short term it was the right thing to do but you just knew that if they were going to bring the human Reps back it would bite them in the butt...

And it did...

In short...this ep rocks! :)

NowIWillDestroyAbydos
January 17th, 2012, 04:00 PM
A great episode, with a downer ending.

Our replicator friends are now human-like.

So we screwed them in the end, saying we'd save Fifth, but lying.

Tomorrow, an alternate reality. Oh joy.

Jae'a
January 18th, 2012, 11:47 AM
My LiveJournal post (http://jo-r-lee.livejournal.com/32938.html)
Such a shame Fifth has to be trapped there for ages, but First was there anyway after three minutes. He wouldn't have let Fifth escape. Or SG-1 for that matter...

fems
January 18th, 2012, 11:56 AM
My LiveJournal post (http://jo-r-lee.livejournal.com/32938.html)
Such a shame Fifth has to be trapped there for ages, but First was there anyway after three minutes. He wouldn't have let Fifth escape. Or SG-1 for that matter...

Even if the others wouldn't know about it they could never take Fifth with him. Do you remember what happened with Reese?!

Krisz
January 18th, 2012, 08:01 PM
I've always wished they'd taken Fifth with them. Always wondered how he would have turned out living amongst humans. Would his 'flaw' be made worse by being with humans for that very reason? He was the closest an artificial lifeform came to being human, especially being thought of as the "mistake" by the other Replicators. Felt sorry for him in that he was left in the 'middle', not thought of as a perfect Replicator or as a human.

They paid a high price for the betrayal of Fifth. Patrick Currie really brought this character to life, giving Fifth a wonderful air of menacing innocence. Reese destroyed an advanced civilisation in innocence and Jack took note. Interesting how Sam and Jonas worked on an emotional level in response to leaving Fifth behind, Jack was totally practical and focused on the inherent dangers of taking Fifth.

kmac45
January 20th, 2012, 05:48 PM
That was my favorite scene from that episode. I was in stitches...

jelgate
January 21st, 2012, 09:55 PM
You can really tell the writers thought S6 was going to be their last with the way the writers are wrapping up stories. This episode isn't really about action or dealing with a powerful episode. Its about morality. This episode is a big set up to morality. We have the Promethus with the Asgard help going to a trap that shows the Replicators have evolved to a point they are worse then ever. An unstopable enemy that is ever more unstopable. All seems lost for SG1 except for Fifth who unlike the other ruthless Replicators has a conscience and doesn't agree with mass destruction at the cost of growing numbers. This episode all builds up to the moral question of is it wrong to betray the innocence of one person to save thousands if not millions? I can see Jack's POV of they couldn't let them escape and continue to plague the galaxy but at the same time it is wrong to backstab a person like that who did nothing wrong but exist. It doesn't seem right to do that to Fifth. He should not be responsible for the crimes of his own people

bookwormjules
January 22nd, 2012, 07:08 AM
I always felt Jack made the right decision, and never really questioned it, Fifth was a machine, who made himself look like a human - not a human, who was part of a group focused on destroying them all. He may have had a more moral side to him than the others, but he's still the enemy and he could turn any minute much like Reece did.

At this time, SG1 didn't know how the replicators worked or were "programmed" they couldn't risk compromising Earth. I'm surprised Sam allowed herself to be as emotionally involved as she did. It's who she is, and what makes her a good character on the show. For all we know Fifth could have been playing her, using her emotional side to get in. He and the the others did probe their brains, it could have been a tactical advantage. I'm also surprised, that by working for Jack as long as she has, she can still be shocked by his decisions he makes. In my opinion, leaving Fifth behind was a far better fate than what would have happened if they brought him back to earth.

All in all a good episode.

jelgate
January 22nd, 2012, 07:16 AM
I always felt Jack made the right decision, and never really questioned it, Fifth was a machine, who made himself look like a human - not a human, who was part of a group focused on destroying them all. He may have had a more moral side to him than the others, but he's still the enemy and he could turn any minute much like Reece did.

At this time, SG1 didn't know how the replicators worked or were "programmed" they couldn't risk compromising Earth. I'm surprised Sam allowed herself to be as emotionally involved as she did. It's who she is, and what makes her a good character on the show. For all we know Fifth could have been playing her, using her emotional side to get in. He and the the others did probe their brains, it could have been a tactical advantage. I'm also surprised, that by working for Jack as long as she has, she can still be shocked by his decisions he makes. In my opinion, leaving Fifth behind was a far better fate than what would have happened if they brought him back to earth.

All in all a good episode.

So because Fifth is not human and is a form of life that is different from us he doesn't have rights? And you can't blame Fifth alone for the actions of the other Replicators. Thats like how in the 40s we blamed all the Japanese for the actions of Pearl Harbor

bookwormjules
January 23rd, 2012, 02:01 AM
So because Fifth is not human and is a form of life that is different from us he doesn't have rights? And you can't blame Fifth alone for the actions of the other Replicators. Thats like how in the 40s we blamed all the Japanese for the actions of Pearl Harbor

Pearl Harbour dealt with humans not machines, Fifth was a machine. He wasn't a life form. He was a program - like a robot. There is no comparison there.

jelgate
January 23rd, 2012, 05:57 AM
So just because they are different then us that means that means they don't have rights?

bookwormjules
January 23rd, 2012, 03:28 PM
Again they are machines. Like a computer or a coffee maker. I'm not going to compare the rights I'd give a human, to a machine.

jelgate
January 23rd, 2012, 04:12 PM
A computer or a coffee maker is not sentient and is unable to think for themselves

LeftHandedGuitarist
January 24th, 2012, 04:03 AM
A computer certainly can think for itself, within its programming. So can modern washing machines and televisions. Should they have rights? What about the autopilot on the aeroplanes you travel on?

jelgate
January 24th, 2012, 05:36 AM
The key is the program. The program of a computer does what we tell it do not make its own decision of think for itself of what is right or wrong like Fifth

fems
January 24th, 2012, 05:55 AM
They can't procreate, only create/build and replicate.

Lieutenant Sparrow
February 5th, 2012, 10:15 PM
Oh great the human form replicators! I hate them! I like the original form better. Much more menacing.

I think Jack made the right decision in leaving 5th behind.

I do understand where jelgate is coming from though.

EDIT: Oh and Teal'cs reaction to Jack trying to eat his ice cream was hilarious :tealc:

Zaany
September 5th, 2012, 11:40 AM
We can only hope that this will be the last footwear to fall. :D

Cluas
January 28th, 2013, 03:40 PM
I enjoyed this one,

:sam: "Sir, we can't call it the Enterprise"
:jack: "Why not?"

Priceless. And also you gotta love the ice-cream scene :indeed:

The actor playing the first was awesome. Where have I seen him before? WAIT: "Twin Peaks" OFC :jack_new_anime07:

The ending was also above average even though Sam had to lie to the fifth. I bet he will seek out revenge (in a few hundred years perhaps) ...

fems
January 29th, 2013, 07:12 AM
I enjoyed this one,

:sam: "Sir, we can't call it the Enterprise"
:jack: "Why not?"

Priceless. And also you gotta love the ice-cream scene :indeed:

The actor playing the first was awesome. Where have I seen him before? WAIT: "Twin Peaks" OFC :jack_new_anime07:

The ending was also above average even though Sam had to lie to the fifth. I bet he will seek out revenge (in a few hundred years perhaps) ...

You won't have to wait that long...

Cluas
January 29th, 2013, 07:42 AM
You won't have to wait that long...

Cool - looking forward. Thanks :cool:

Jolinar_of_Malkshur
February 3rd, 2013, 06:02 AM
I know they're not everyone's cup of tea, but I love the human-form replicators :)

Cluas
February 3rd, 2013, 07:11 AM
I know they're not everyone's cup of tea, but I love the human-form replicators :)

Yes me too :cool:

Falcon Horus
July 5th, 2013, 12:15 PM
So, we're adrift in space... sort of... and Thor pops in for a chat. He seeks dumb people with low-tech to trap the replicators in a time bubble.

It all sounds so very simple... NOT!

The replicators have sped up time and have evolved into human-like replicators. And Fifth is cute, but he'll learn that betrayal stings. Jonas and Carter are right at the end, they used his humanity against him. It's their own fault he'll go a revenge-spree later.

Jonas and Teal'c eating Ben&Jerry in the cargo hold. :lol: Especially Teal'c being overprotective of his pot of ice, then switching with O'Neills.

Baron Of Hell
July 6th, 2013, 08:58 AM
Like the episode a lot. I don't think there was a wrong or right answer to 5th. He could have helped stop the replicators or he might have replicated a army. I'm assuming he gets out sooner or later and becomes a bad guy bent on revenge since the replicators show up in SGA. I missed pretty much all of the replicator story line.

I would have liked to see what was in Teal'c's head. Other than that I had no problems with this episode.

Falcon Horus
July 6th, 2013, 09:12 AM
I'm assuming he gets out sooner or later and becomes a bad guy bent on revenge since the replicators show up in SGA.

Your assumption is correct but not in SGA, much sooner than that.

LionHamster
April 8th, 2015, 02:24 AM
I have a question... at the beginning Thor told SG-1 that they activated the single command that was left in Reese's programming to make the Replicators come to their planet (or wherever) to trap them in the time-bubble... so does that mean that Daniel was wrong in "Menace" and Jack right? Because in that episode the question whether Reese told the Replicators to shut down or not was pretty much left open.
And, was Reese lying when she said that she lost control over the Replicators... cause if there was a command in her programming telling the Replicators to go after the Asgard technology...
:confused: or did I just miss something explaining all this?

They "evolved" beyond there original programing

enibas5
July 25th, 2015, 09:25 AM
Not an episode I like to rewatch often. The whole "Prometheus Plot" was not my can of beer. But that might be very well due to the fact that Jonas role was evolving to full membership, getting a lot of lines. At that point he started to annoy me a lot. And I am not referring to the character, but how it was portrayed by Corin Nemec. The bigger the part got, the more obvious the overall bad acting became. Throughout the "Jonas-eps." I could almost feel, how this actor was lost, not having a clue how to do this character. He did not give him anything remarkable. No particular mime, no particular gesture - nothing, besides a way too dramatic and unnatural speech pattern.

Nevertheless, there is that ending of this episode and this outstanding line, that I never forgot after watching it the first time "having turned his humanity against him". That single line and its follow-ups later in the series made up for an otherwise not very convincing episode.

Janet Fraiser
July 26th, 2015, 11:38 AM
Not an episode I like to rewatch often. The whole "Prometheus Plot" was not my can of beer. But that might be very well due to the fact that Jonas role was evolving to full membership, getting a lot of lines. At that point he started to annoy me a lot. And I am not referring to the character, but how it was portrayed by Corin Nemec. The bigger the part got, the more obvious the overall bad acting became. Throughout the "Jonas-eps." I could almost feel, how this actor was lost, not having a clue how to do this character. He did not give him anything remarkable. No particular mime, no particular gesture - nothing, besides a way too dramatic and unnatural speech pattern.

Nevertheless, there is that ending of this episode and this outstanding line, that I never forgot after watching it the first time "having turned his humanity against him". That single line and its follow-ups later in the series made up for an otherwise not very convincing episode.

I love Corin Nemec as Jonas. I'm not sure how you think he should have done the character differently... Is there another, original Jonas Quinn that we should be using as a reference point? :P

enibas5
July 26th, 2015, 02:31 PM
I love Corin Nemec as Jonas. I'm not sure how you think he should have done the character differently... Is there another, original Jonas Quinn that we should be using as a reference point? :P

:p No, there is not.
It is not about Jonas; it is about that I cannot watch him without seeing an actor struggling and "overacting". I just don't buy what he says, what he does, etc.
In this case the actor just does not accomplish to create a character, that I see as a fiction character while on screen. I am annoyed by the exaggerated voice Intonation. I see a guy trying to portray Jonas instead of the character 'Jonas'.

But of course I can accept, that I am alone with that opinion. And I don't claim, that CN is a bad actor. I am just saying, that he never really knew how to portray Jonas and therefore kept on overacting.

Falcon Horus
July 29th, 2015, 12:54 PM
I am just saying, that he never really knew how to portray Jonas and therefore kept on overacting.

That would be because they never gave him any direction about it. He was just Michael's replacement.

I Am Not James Spader
September 16th, 2015, 04:16 AM
Why does Thor transport himself to locations in the chair?

This, to the best of my knowledge, is not the first or last time this happens unless I'm getting various clips I've seen mixed up.

And Thor himself seems to have much less mobility that other Asgard. His head movements seem stiff and limited. Again, however, I'm not sure if this a misremembering on my part.

Am I right or totally wrong?


I love Corin Nemec as Jonas. I'm not sure how you think he should have done the character differently... Is there another, original Jonas Quinn that we should be using as a reference point? :P


:p No, there is not.
It is not about Jonas; it is about that I cannot watch him without seeing an actor struggling and "overacting". I just don't buy what he says, what he does, etc.
In this case the actor just does not accomplish to create a character, that I see as a fiction character while on screen. I am annoyed by the exaggerated voice Intonation. I see a guy trying to portray Jonas instead of the character 'Jonas'.

But of course I can accept, that I am alone with that opinion. And I don't claim, that CN is a bad actor. I am just saying, that he never really knew how to portray Jonas and therefore kept on overacting.

I agree with Janet Fraser - I don't know what "over acting" you are referring to.

Nemic does a great job and Jonas is an incredibly likeable character who fits right into the show a character trying to fit in to the team and I took to him straight away even before knowing that he was replacing Daniel.

Anderson constantly goes over the top and this business of O'Neill "acting dumber than he really" has gone on for too long. He ruins the "science" scenes with that and is generally too snarky and too "funny" (but rarely humorous - the "preposition" moment in The Other Guys being a rare genuine moment) but when they go into the "dark" territory like he does here - leaving Five stranded, or killing the replicator creator and fighting to clear Jackson's name before he dies is when he is a great character.

Falcon Horus
September 16th, 2015, 05:19 AM
Probably because Thor is an actual puppet while the other Asgard are computer animated. One can give a lot more mibility to a computer animation than to a puppet.

I Am Not James Spader
September 16th, 2015, 06:25 AM
Probably because Thor is an actual puppet while the other Asgard are computer animated. One can give a lot more mibility to a computer animation than to a puppet.

As I was typing I was wondering if that was the case - that Thor was a puppet.

Why did they make him a puppet and not CGI? Or vice versa and why not make them all puppets?

Seaboe Muffinchucker
September 16th, 2015, 08:51 AM
CGI was too expensive for how often they used him. They did tend to use CGI if he were walking. Once (and AFAIK only once), they used motion capture for one of the other Asgard when it was walking. Heimdahl, I believe.

Seaboe

I Am Not James Spader
September 16th, 2015, 02:42 PM
CGI was too expensive for how often they used him. They did tend to use CGI if he were walking. Once (and AFAIK only once), they used motion capture for one of the other Asgard when it was walking. Heimdahl, I believe.

Seaboe

I did consider the issue of expense that but I thought that since the Asgardians are all so alike that it would be that difficult to use adapt the resources to the various characters.

Motion capture? I would have thought that was beyond the budget of the show back then. I've never even heard of a TV show using the technology.

Falcon Horus
September 16th, 2015, 11:42 PM
Motion capture? I would have thought that was beyond the budget of the show back then. I've never even heard of a TV show using the technology.

They didn't do motion capture. They just had Teryl (who voiced Heimdahl) walking on set with an imprint of Heimdahl on a T-shirt at the height where her head would be so the others could look down to the proper height so that when they inserted the CGI image it would look more natural.

Anja
September 23rd, 2015, 12:31 PM
You only have to listen to the commentary they explain how they created Heimdahl.

Anja
September 23rd, 2015, 12:35 PM
Creepy and frightening because the replis are so powerful and advanced - and vicious.
But I couldn't help feeling sorry for Fifth - he was betrayed.:D

I Am Not James Spader
September 23rd, 2015, 02:52 PM
They didn't do motion capture. They just had Teryl (who voiced Heimdahl) walking on set with an imprint of Heimdahl on a T-shirt at the height where her head would be so the others could look down to the proper height so that when they inserted the CGI image it would look more natural.

Okay that makes sense because I was certain it wasn't done on TV back then.

Do any TV shows now use motion capture?


You only have to listen to the commentary they explain how they created Heimdahl.

That isn't an option on Netflix, but I wish it was.

Falcon Horus
September 23rd, 2015, 11:51 PM
Do any TV shows now use motion capture?

I don't think so - MoCap is rather too expensive, I imagine.

Seaboe Muffinchucker
September 24th, 2015, 06:20 AM
You only have to listen to the commentary they explain how they created Heimdahl.

Who is this addressed to? Because I listened to the commentary and they way they described what they did sure sounded like motion capture to me.

Seaboe

Anja
September 25th, 2015, 02:12 AM
It's addressed to anyone who is interested in questions about Heimdahl - no criticism!!!

BrknSoul
October 29th, 2015, 07:45 AM
Has anyone thought of this.
The Time Dilation device was set to 10 to the 4th power (100,000) times slower than normal.
As Carter mentioned, 1 year would equal about 10,000 years (365 days * 100,000 = 99,933.6882 years)

First mentioned that he was created in the moments before the device went off and he was able to disable it.

Fifth is right next to the device. Let's say it takes him 1 minute to disable the device from his perspective. 1 minute * 100,000 is only 69.44 days.

Maybe it takes longer, 10 minutes. That's still only 1.9 years.

Falcon Horus
October 29th, 2015, 11:26 AM
Has anyone thought of this.

With my math skills... nope, not at all. :p

Anja
October 29th, 2015, 11:55 AM
Has anyone thought of this.
The Time Dilation device was set to 10 to the 4th power (100,000) times slower than normal.
As Carter mentioned, 1 year would equal about 10,000 years (365 days * 100,000 = 99,933.6882 years)

First mentioned that he was created in the moments before the device went off and he was able to disable it.

Fifth is right next to the device. Let's say it takes him 1 minute to disable the device from his perspective. 1 minute * 100,000 is only 69.44 days.

Maybe it takes longer, 10 minutes. That's still only 1.9 years.

I don't want to be picky - 10 to the power of four is 10,000 not 100,000.

LtColCarter
October 29th, 2015, 12:24 PM
I don't want to be picky - 10 to the power of four is 10,000 not 100,000.

Guess BrknSoul's math isn't up to snuff either! :P

BrknSoul
October 29th, 2015, 05:07 PM
My bad for posting at around 2am in the morning.

Accounting for 10^4 = 10,000, then;
1 year = 9 993.37 years
10 mins = 69.44 days
1 min = 6.944 days.

Science
May 25th, 2016, 03:21 AM
I don't understand why O'Neill wanted to leave the good guy behind. He could've been an ally in helping to cure the bad guys. Now he's really going to hate us for betraying him.

jelgate
May 25th, 2016, 05:20 AM
Acceptable loss. He saw a chance to deal a blow to the Replicators so he took it. One machine is worth the risk to all the Asgards the Replicators have killed in Jack's mind

Anja
May 26th, 2016, 01:15 AM
I think it was right not to trust that guy!

jelgate
May 26th, 2016, 06:31 AM
At this point I'm not sure. Fifth was naïve. I don't think at this point he was malicious. Fifth was mostly a casualty of war

Anja
May 27th, 2016, 02:22 AM
He turned out to be rather mean later!!

Falcon Horus
May 27th, 2016, 02:24 AM
He turned out to be rather mean later!!

The sting of betrayal can do that to a person -- even an artificial one.

Anja
May 27th, 2016, 03:00 AM
The sting of betrayal can do that to a person -- even an artificial one.

But you do not change completely - not from naive and helpful to a mean beast.

Falcon Horus
May 27th, 2016, 03:47 AM
But you do not change completely - not from naive and helpful to a mean beast.

You clearly never heard the saying: "Hell hath no fury, like a woman scorned." :p

Or better yet: Betrayal, Rejection, Revenge, and Forgiveness: An Interpersonal Script Approach (http://www.psych.purdue.edu/~willia55/392F-'06/FitnessBetrayal.pdf)

"Throughout recorded human history, treachery and betrayal have been considered amongst the very worst offences people could commit against their kith and kin. Dante, for example, relegated traitors to the lowest and coldest regions of Hell, to be forever frozen up to their necks in a lake of ice with blizzards storming all about them, as punishment for having acted so coldly toward others. Even today, the crime of treason merits the most severe penalties, including capital punishment. However, betrayals need not involve issues of national security to be regarded as serious. From sexual infidelity to disclosing a friend’s secrets, betraying another person or group of people implies unspeakable disloyalty, a breach of trust, and a violation of what is good and proper. Moreover, all of us will suffer both minor and major betrayals throughout our lives, and most of us will, if only unwittingly, betray others."

jelgate
May 27th, 2016, 06:05 AM
He turned out to be rather mean later!!

I was talking about a perspective on this episode not what Fifth turns into

Anja
May 28th, 2016, 05:55 AM
But you do not change completely - not from naive and helpful to a mean beast.

I stick to this - you cannot turn out mean and evil if you were an angel before, Fifth wasn't an angel.

Science
May 28th, 2016, 06:54 AM
Fifth wasn't an angel of course, but he was a child, a being with a very young mind. Give a kid some candy then take it away from him. He's going to be irrationally upset. So it was with Fifth. His reactions (in a later episode) are base, fundamental feelings and reactions. He does eventually learn and 'grow up' a bit, through experience, as we all do in time.

Nirude
June 13th, 2016, 03:38 AM
Love this episode. I find the planet pretty creepy as it's become so segregated from the normal flow of things, almost like a mini-universe rather than a planet.

The design of the structure was pretty weird and what were the replicators waiting for.. just, visitors? Or were they unable to leave or something? I guess they don't think like us at all.

hedwig
June 13th, 2016, 01:15 PM
Love this episode. I find the planet pretty creepy as it's become so segregated from the normal flow of things, almost like a mini-universe rather than a planet.

The design of the structure was pretty weird and what were the replicators waiting for.. just, visitors? Or were they unable to leave or something? I guess they don't think like us at all.

They were unable to leave because the Asgard hadput them in a time bubble of sorts that prevented them from leaving. At least that's what I think it was. :)

Anja
June 14th, 2016, 01:24 AM
Perhaps that hadn't finished making new ones yet.

jelgate
June 14th, 2016, 05:10 AM
They used the time bubble to their advantage to build up resources. Until we reversed it

Nirude
June 16th, 2016, 01:05 PM
They were unable to leave because the Asgard hadput them in a time bubble of sorts that prevented them from leaving. At least that's what I think it was. :)

Could be. Not sure it would prevent them leaving as it was going faster than normal time, but I'm sure at the boundary of a time bubble a lot of funky things will be going on.

Anja
June 17th, 2016, 01:24 AM
Well, the boundary wasn't in the focus of attention - the stuff inside of the field was interesting.

Marcinilux
October 7th, 2016, 08:14 PM
I just finished watching this episode again for the 10th time, and... dear lord is it painful to see Fifth's lovely face filled with betrayal and sadness.

I think, although it's not exactly seen later, that something in the mentality of SG-1 changed after this, their.. quest as a group, their purpose of saving the universe from the Goa'uld, and other enemies.. became colder, cruel, frightening. Also I think Daniel would've been the one to smack sense into Jack, and give him once again and well deserved "you stupid son of a.."; had he been there.

This is easily one of the most difficult choices they have made, and someone should really make a list of morally questionable issues in Stargate...

Also, I really hope the Asgard had that bubble thing like well signaled around, imagine any other ship casually passing by and getting stuck in that bubble for millions of years. Creepy indeed.

garhkal
October 7th, 2016, 11:14 PM
You would have thought they would have put some sort of warning, wouldn't you.. But can you imagine a passing asteroid getting stuck!

Anja
October 8th, 2016, 03:02 AM
I just finished watching this episode again for the 10th time, and... dear lord is it painful to see Fifth's lovely face filled with betrayal and sadness.

I think, although it's not exactly seen later, that something in the mentality of SG-1 changed after this, their.. quest as a group, their purpose of saving the universe from the Goa'uld, and other enemies.. became colder, cruel, frightening. Also I think Daniel would've been the one to smack sense into Jack, and give him once again and well deserved "you stupid son of a.."; had he been there.

This is easily one of the most difficult choices they have made, and someone should really make a list of morally questionable issues in Stargate...

Also, I really hope the Asgard had that bubble thing like well signaled around, imagine any other ship casually passing by and getting stuck in that bubble for millions of years. Creepy indeed.

Never forget: Fifth is no human being, he is a replicator, a mechanical lifeform! If he had been made from metal nobody would have cared!

Amelius
April 12th, 2018, 07:26 PM
Ethical considerations aside, this was a really stupid move for O'Neill. First, the Asgard could have learned so much from a replicator willing to let them experiment on him. But even aside from that, Fifth was about 2 seconds away from the time dilation device. Time is slowed by 10,000 times. 20,000 seconds is about 5.5 hours. Even being generous and saying it would have taken an hour to shut it off, that's still about 416 days. So in a little over a year they'll be back. And pissed. And hey, one and a half years later....

The worst part of this is that Carter should have pointed this out. Jack might assume time being slowed by 10,000 times would keep the replicators in there for a long long time. But Carter can easily do simple multiplication/division in her head. Even if Fifth had bought the story completely and did exactly what they said, it was supposed to be about 3 or 4 minutes to get to the Prometheus. A couple seconds for him to realize that the ship was gone and he was betrayed. Then 3 or 4 minutes back. So even under the best circumstances, it wouldn't be very long before they got out.

BethHG
July 10th, 2018, 03:52 AM
This episode is excellent, yet truly painful for me to watch. Nice twist on the replicators speeding up time and taking the forms as humans. Very creepy sticking their hands into their brains to get info from SG1.

What truly bothers me is that Carter promises Fifth that he will come with them. I understand that this is a setup for future episodes, and that Jack orders it. But, I feel that Sam's character was slammed in that one moment because she didn't even say anything until after it happened, and that was because Jonas said something first. I guess I expected more from her.

Also, yes, I know that he is still a replicator. It would have been interesting if they did take Fifth and the others wanted their revenge on him instead of how it happened.

Seaboe Muffinchucker
July 10th, 2018, 07:26 AM
She should never have made that promise. She is not the commanding officer, and she had to have known that her promises could and would be overruled.

Seaboe

BethHG
July 10th, 2018, 07:55 AM
She should never have made that promise. She is not the commanding officer, and she had to have known that her promises could and would be overruled.

Seaboe

Exactly!

Falcon Horus
September 22nd, 2018, 01:26 PM
No idea how I felt about this the last time I watched this, but this time I was not entertained.

Nothing spectacularly interesting happens, except the perfect analogy for Stargate Command and no-access fans. Stargate Command is SG-1 in this case, and the no-access fans are Fifth and we all know how Fifth turned out after that betrayal of his trust -- Command doesn't stand a chance.

Anyhow... it's a filler... and a bad one at that.

The only good thing is Jonas and Teal'c munching on icecream in the cargobay, and O'Neill not getting his way on naming the X-303 after the Entreprise.

How would you rate SG-1's "Unnatural Selection?"

Excellent
Good
Fair
Poor
Terrible

********* EDIT *************

3-episode quiz: Cure, Prometheus & Unnatural Selection (https://goo.gl/forms/s9J89viiCwzNSDAp2)

Jigsaw puzzle: Unnatural Selection (https://www.jigidi.com/solve.php?id=EXM99DRZ)

BethHG
September 22nd, 2018, 04:05 PM
9:56

hedwig
September 22nd, 2018, 07:47 PM
10:16

Who Knows
September 22nd, 2018, 08:49 PM
10.13

Falcon Horus
September 23rd, 2018, 02:39 AM
Good job everyone! :D

jelgate
September 30th, 2018, 07:06 PM
Its definitely not a filler episode FH. The fact that it continues the Replicators arc, by definition does not make it a filler. Overall I do like it just to show us a different avenue for the Replicators although I do admit they lose some of their machine mentality with the human form. O tend to agree with Jonas and Sam in how wrong it was to betray Fifth that Jack ordered them to to. I give it a good with a perfect quiz and 6 minutes 43 seconds

Falcon Horus
December 22nd, 2018, 01:28 PM
8:37 -- consistently taking my time... :p