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GateWorld
April 30th, 2004, 11:16 AM
<DIV ALIGN=CENTER><TABLE WIDTH=450 BORDER=0 CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=7><TR><TD><DIV ALIGN=LEFT><FONT FACE="Arial" SIZE=2 COLOR="#000000"><A HREF="http://www.gateworld.net/sg1/s6/610.shtml"><IMG SRC="http://www.gateworld.net/sg1/graphics/610.jpg" WIDTH=160 HEIGHT=120 ALIGN=RIGHT HSPACE=10 VSPACE=2 BORDER=0 STYLE="border: 1px black solid" ALT="Visit the Episode Guide"></A><FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#666666">DISCUSS ...</FONT>
<FONT SIZE=4 COLOR="#0066BF"><B>CURE</B></FONT>
<FONT SIZE=1>EPISODE NUMBER - 610</FONT>
<IMG SRC="/images/clear.gif" WIDTH=1 HEIGHT=10 ALT="">
An alien world offers Earth a medicine with the power to cure any illness -- but the hidden price may be too high to pay.

<B><A HREF="http://www.gateworld.net/sg1/s6/610.shtml">Visit the Episode Guide >></A></B></FONT></DIV></TD></TR></TABLE></DIV>

KorbenDirewolf
June 16th, 2004, 11:19 AM
Nice... A race using the Goa'uld rather than the other way around.. ;) Too bad she/it wasn't really a Goa'uld.

SG_Mike
June 16th, 2004, 11:44 AM
It was pretty freaky to see that may Goa'uld in those tanks in that episode. It had some neat points including the Queen and Tok'ra aspects. I think I will watch it again to refresh my memory on this one. :)

GuyFromOH
June 16th, 2004, 11:58 AM
These posts seem kind of spoilerish

SG_Mike
June 16th, 2004, 12:21 PM
These posts seem kind of spoilerish

I guess, in my opinion, it is implied that you have seen the episode if you are here reading about it? I will be more careful in the episode threads if this is not the case.

bcmilco
June 16th, 2004, 12:45 PM
The way I understand it the threads for the individual episodes are going to have spoilers in them and as long as the spoilers are for the episode that the thread is about you don't need spoiler space. If however you start mention stuff from another episode then you do need spoiler space, assuming the episode falls under the spoiler guidelines. (currently SG-1 s6,7,8 and Atlantis s1)

Edited to say: I'm talking specifically about the episode threads.

If I'm wrong I'm sure someone will correct me ;)

omnian
June 16th, 2004, 12:57 PM
I've got a question......where do Queens come from? That sounds so lame but I'm curious. If all Goa'uld have no gender (according to Martouf at least) then where do the Queens come from?

Elwe Singollo
June 16th, 2004, 01:58 PM
Hmm, good question, i want an answer too !

bcmilco
June 16th, 2004, 02:07 PM
I've got a question......where do Queens come from? That sounds so lame but I'm curious. If all Goa'uld have no gender (according to Martouf at least) then where do the Queens come from?

The mommy goa'uld and the daddy goa'uld... err nevermind :p

I'll throw out a guess.

I'd guess that just like the genetic memories the queen can choose which traits to pass onto the child. So one of the traits that the queen can choose to pass on is the ability to spawn more goa'uld.

It just so happens that the very first goa'uld chose to NOT pass that ability on to the vast majority of it's children.

What do you think? :)

SG_Mike
June 16th, 2004, 03:16 PM
The mommy goa'uld and the daddy goa'uld... err nevermind :p

I'll throw out a guess.

I'd guess that just like the genetic memories the queen can choose which traits to pass onto the child. So one of the traits that the queen can choose to pass on is the ability to spawn more goa'uld.

It just so happens that the very first goa'uld chose to NOT pass that ability on to the vast majority of it's children.

What do you think? :)

Sounds reasonable to me that once a queen has reached a certain age that she/it would have too in order to keep the lines going.

I do remember something about an animal/insect (memory fails me here) that any one of a certain type can become the queen, but only one shall be queen. But since the Tok'ra didnt do anything like this, then that explination makes sense to me. ;)

KorbenDirewolf
June 16th, 2004, 03:38 PM
These posts seem kind of spoilerish
Sorry.. One thought one was meant to talk about an episode within the official thread for that episode.

SGSlugger
June 16th, 2004, 07:15 PM
I always assumed that select Goa'uld had the ability to become queens. I guess that they are scarce. We've only encountered what, 3 so far?

Elwe Singollo
June 16th, 2004, 09:52 PM
Maybe one day they are 'born' out of nowhere or something, haha..

SG_Mike
June 17th, 2004, 11:56 AM
The Queen Fairy God Mother comes down and grants a new goa'ulds wish.

Mr Prophet
June 17th, 2004, 12:02 PM
I assume that even on their primal homeworld the bulk of the Goa'uld are infertile drones; only the minority breeding Queens. I also suspect that Goa'uld in their primal state - especially non-breeders - have a very short lifespan, hence the mass of larvae produced.

Whether Queens are spawned sporadically in response to biological imperative, or perhaps as a result of a deliberate change of diet - like a bee's royal jelly - I don't know. I suspect the former, as this would explain the shortage of Queens among the modern Goa'uld. The life expectancy has gone through the roof and the population has spent millennia in boom; there's been no need for new Queens.

On the other hand, a steady course of cannibalism in early life might be the key.

greytop
June 28th, 2004, 09:02 PM
I was woundering if goa'uld queens were similar to a honey queens. The bee queen every so often births another queen that eventually depart the hive for to start new hive.

Perhaps Egria had birthed a queen before Ra enslaved her in the tomb and hid her on another world. What do you think?

Madeleine
June 28th, 2004, 09:48 PM
Nice idea. Oooh, that could make things interesting for the Tok'ra.

Anubis
June 28th, 2004, 11:14 PM
That's a good though, because a queen has to die sometime

Roatbaum
June 28th, 2004, 11:28 PM
Oddly, I just watched this one. I taped it last night, and watched it tonight. It was a good one. I thought it was fitting for the Tok'ra to get sort of an answer, sad though that it was so final. I wonder what happened to 'ole boy who got snagged by the symbiote?

Anubis
June 28th, 2004, 11:30 PM
So many questions to answer...

greytop
July 6th, 2004, 06:04 PM
I always assumed that select Goa'uld had the ability to become queens. I guess that they are scarce. We've only encountered what, 3 so far?
I believe it is 4. Hathor, Egeria, Ammonet, and one unnamed queen in a later story.

Anubis
July 6th, 2004, 11:14 PM
That's right. We've seen four, I think it might be five but I can't think about it! :rolleyes:

AgentX
July 7th, 2004, 08:24 AM
I really enjoy the queen story line when they do pop up. Are we counting the fossilized queen Daniel found?

greytop
July 7th, 2004, 08:27 AM
I was counting the 4th queen to be the one in S7 (Spoiler) with the super-soldiers.

Anubis
July 7th, 2004, 08:39 AM
Oh, the one they found in Evolution. I think I'm with you now!

Selmak
July 11th, 2004, 07:25 AM
Perhaps Egria had birthed a queen before Ra enslaved her in the tomb and hid her on another world. What do you think?

I love that idea! That would be a good story line and it would mean not the end of the Tok'ra.

greytop
July 14th, 2004, 11:37 AM
Does anyone know the English translation of what Egeria said at the end?

Selmak
July 15th, 2004, 07:55 PM
I don't even know what language it is in.

greytop
July 21st, 2004, 12:18 AM
It could be Goa'uld.

Selmak
July 26th, 2004, 08:24 PM
I really wish Egeria could have survived... it would have changed tok'ra society

SeaBee
September 19th, 2004, 09:07 AM
Interesting episode, and fairly vital, as it gives the opening for finding the formula for Trutonin.

Blue Banrigh
September 26th, 2004, 07:47 PM
I'm just wondering why they didn't find a sarcophagus for Egeria. I know it drains the good from their hearts, but surely once wouldn't hurt and it is their queen. Surely an exception could be made.

She could have then given birth to a new queen.

Mr Prophet
September 27th, 2004, 07:47 AM
I think she was really too far gone for a sarcophagus. We know it has limits; Yu has spent too long using it, perhaps Egeria had spent too long _not_ using it. Her body was basically shot all to hell and back.

greytop
September 27th, 2004, 12:48 PM
I think she was really too far gone for a sarcophagus. We know it has limits; Yu has spent too long using it, perhaps Egeria had spent too long _not_ using it. Her body was basically shot all to hell and back.
I believe that even if they had sarcophagus, Egeria would have refuse to use it. It goes against their teaching.

Crazedwraith
September 27th, 2004, 01:43 PM
Interesting episode, and fairly vital, as it gives the opening for finding the formula for Trutonin.
They did find the forumal for tretinion as this episode had tretonin in it. :P You mena the jaffa syboite replacement tretonin

Madeleine
September 27th, 2004, 09:08 PM
I don't think they found the formula for it in this ep, just how to make it out of ground up goauld. They'd found the formula by Changeling, that's when they were first synthesising it themselves.

SeaBee
September 29th, 2004, 03:08 PM
I don't think they found the formula for it in this ep, just how to make it out of ground up goauld. They'd found the formula by Changeling, that's when they were first synthesising it themselves.
Thanks, MW, that was what I was trying to say, but badly! :o

Major Fischer
November 22nd, 2004, 05:03 PM
Egeria is the coolest Tok'ra... ever. Okay, maybe not cooler than Selmak, but certainly ties.

LoneStar1836
November 22nd, 2004, 11:08 PM
Okay, I know this is a stupid observation/question, but when the guy was treading water and then is suddenly yanked down under and submerged. Just who was doing the yanking? (Or at least getting “pulled” under is how I interpreted what happened.) Last I looked symbiotes didn’t have hands. Guess they grabbed him with their fins or whatever you call them. ;) Sorry, I know that’s not a serious question to prompt a serious discussion, but I just found it funny and never thought about it before until I watched it again today. Any ideas how all those little symbiotes “pulled” that guy under?

LMichelle
November 23rd, 2004, 12:30 PM
I enjoyed this one. It raised more questions than it answered. That's always a good sign. :)

NORCALJJ
December 28th, 2004, 01:38 PM
can you amagine the WAY different direction the show would have taken if she would have lived? The Goa'uld would be getting their @$$es kicked hard core....

Yu`
February 7th, 2005, 09:42 PM
I was hoping the Tok'ra would be able to replinish their numbers at least in some way this episode.

Good story nice twist about the queen's identity, and some really good Jonas scenes. The part where he fell into the incubating pool scared the hell outta me.

Osiris-RA
February 15th, 2005, 07:08 PM
Okay, here's what I need to know, forgive me if this question has been asnwered, my comp is slow ...

How on earth does that gigantic Queen get into a human? Does she drop the egg shell or something? That makes sense. I saw the head lying nearby so .. I guess she molted?

Jeril
February 15th, 2005, 08:07 PM
How on earth does that gigantic Queen get into a human? Does she drop the egg shell or something? That makes sense. I saw the head lying nearby so .. I guess she molted?
I was wondering the same thing the first time I saw it. I was like, ":eek: If she crammed all of herself into that lady's head, those two are gonna have one intense headache!" :D
I thought the head was the body of the other Tok'ra, the one who abandoned the host so that the Tok'ra mom-person (forgot the name) could move in.

Here's a theory: Did you ever see the Aliens movies? At one point (in the first one, I think), the Alien queen broke away from her egg-laying parts so that she could move around. Maybe the Goa'uld queens create a detachable part of their bodies that they birth little Goa'uldlings through and they can release that part of their body when they're through with it or something like that...
I suppose what I just said will make a lot more sense if you have seen the movie but I don't really know how to describe it well. :S

GateTraveler
February 16th, 2005, 06:40 PM
Seemed odd to me that Jonas didn't get zapped by a symbiote. In other eps, the symbiotes jump into a body at first oportunity. He was in that pool for several minutes. I guess it must have something to do with their minds being blank or something. I guess these symbiotes are stupid. If so then maybe a better question would be why the other guy DID get zapped :).

Beatrice Otter
February 17th, 2005, 10:45 AM
Okay, here's what I need to know, forgive me if this question has been asnwered, my comp is slow ...

How on earth does that gigantic Queen get into a human? Does she drop the egg shell or something? That makes sense. I saw the head lying nearby so .. I guess she molted?
Here's my theory on Queen Goa'ulds:

While normal Goa'ulds can have any gender of host they want, queens must be in a female host if they want to spawn. Remember, every time we've seen a queen Goa'uld (or Tok'ra) out of a host and preparing to spawn, they had this huge egg-sac thing that looks really gross.

http://www.gateworld.net/sg1/s6/graphics/610_07.jpg
http://www.gateworld.net/sg1/s7/graphics/712_22.jpg

You can't really see it in these pics, but when you pause the DVD it looks like the sac and the symbiote have a fairly clear dividing line, and that they're attached to each other, not integral components. Well. There's certainly no room inside a human for that huge sac, and in Egeria's case she went from that tank in the first pic straight to a human host. So the egg sac must be detachable. Now, if they don't have an egg sac while in a human host (and certainly, Hathor's trim figure had no room for one! Neither did what's her name who became Egeria's last host in "Cure"), what do they use instead?

Aha! Human females have an organ that fulfills basically the same function. We call it a womb. So my theory is that the queen just kind of attaches herself and modifies it for her own purposes. This would neatly explain why it was so critical for Amaunet to hibernate while Sha're was pregnant, which otherwise doesn't make sense to me. It would also neatly fit with Hathor's method of procuring the "code of life" from Daniel--everything went where it would have if she'd been a normal human woman, it was just put to a slightly different purpose.

Now, this theory's kinda gross imho, but it fits the facts we have.

Beatrice Otter
February 17th, 2005, 10:46 AM
Seemed odd to me that Jonas didn't get zapped by a symbiote. In other eps, the symbiotes jump into a body at first oportunity. He was in that pool for several minutes. I guess it must have something to do with their minds being blank or something. I guess these symbiotes are stupid. If so then maybe a better question would be why the other guy DID get zapped :).
Maybe there's varying degrees of stupidity?

greytop
February 17th, 2005, 11:52 AM
Here's my theory on Queen Goa'ulds:

While normal Goa'ulds can have any gender of host they want, queens must be in a female host if they want to spawn. Remember, every time we've seen a queen Goa'uld (or Tok'ra) out of a host and preparing to spawn, they had this huge egg-sac thing that looks really gross.

A good example of a queen spawning without a sac is Hathor in S1 episode by the same name. But she need a water for the symboits to spawn into.

Celsius
March 20th, 2005, 07:32 AM
I believe it is 4. Hathor, Egeria, Ammonet, and one unnamed queen in a later story.

Wouldn't Isis count? I mean Osiris definitely referred to her as his "queen" in Summit. Though that could just have been a figure of speech or something I guess.

I thought this episode would be another "an alien race offers something to SG-1, but there's a catch" at first, but I really liked the Egeria revelation. It was too bad she died so quickly :(

One question though: was Egeria's new host really happy about dying with her? Perhaps she thought Egeria being extracted to allow her to live wouldn't be a very dignified death. Still a bit tough on her though.

Mr Prophet
March 20th, 2005, 09:18 AM
Wouldn't Isis count? I mean Osiris definitely referred to her as his "queen" in Summit. Though that could just have been a figure of speech or something I guess.

I'm pretty sure that Janet confirmed the Isis symbiote was a queen, but if we're counting the daed there's also Cleopatra.

valaCB
May 28th, 2005, 10:46 AM
can you amagine the WAY different direction the show would have taken if she would have lived? The Goa'uld would be getting their @$$es kicked hard core....
Yeah... i was actually cried when she died :(
so now the Tok'ra are extinct race :S

QuiGonJohn
June 11th, 2005, 05:35 AM
I liked this episode. I too was thinking either she should have been revived somehow, maybe being in a host or a one time use of a sarc, OR she should have birthed a new queen. Then the Tok'ra could increase their numbers again. Also, one option for those people would have been to blend and become Tok'ra with these new Tok'ra symbiotes.

Tal'Mak_Josh
June 17th, 2005, 05:29 AM
If you go to the bit where they find the girl on the floor n the original symbiote next to her. Look to your right and oyu see a part of the tank. The Big fat jelly egg holding birth incubator baby rucksack fthing is floating around in there.

PugGate
August 22nd, 2005, 06:51 PM
I'm pretty sure that Janet confirmed the Isis symbiote was a queen, but if we're counting the daed there's also Cleopatra.

Cleopatra as in the fossil Dr. Rothman found in "the First Ones"?

One detail that gives me hope that Egeria will come back is that the Tok'ra carried her through the gate instead of disintegrating her body.

Stricken
September 8th, 2005, 06:23 AM
Another great episode from S6 but did we have to call the Tok'ra

walter_MacChevron
October 31st, 2005, 08:20 PM
Was a good episode and a good intro to tretonin..............did anybody else notice that the stargate's "water" at the end seemed unusually dark???

Callista
February 10th, 2007, 07:12 PM
Okay, I know this is a stupid observation/question, but when the guy was treading water and then is suddenly yanked down under and submerged. Just who was doing the yanking? (Or at least getting “pulled” under is how I interpreted what happened.) Last I looked symbiotes didn’t have hands. Guess they grabbed him with their fins or whatever you call them. ;) Sorry, I know that’s not a serious question to prompt a serious discussion, but I just found it funny and never thought about it before until I watched it again today. Any ideas how all those little symbiotes “pulled” that guy under?

I was wondering the same thing!

I quite like this episode. The only thing I found distracting was the music since much of it is so recognizable as coming from "The Curse" along with a bit from "Meridian" and it kept making me think of those episodes. This is the only episode where I've found the music less than great. Also, there's a point near the beginning where Jonas and Teal'c are walking along and it looks like Teal'c is about to crack up (in laughter)....makes me wonder what's going on off-screen.

Other than that, though, I really liked "The Cure". It's one of the only episodes I can think of where there isn't really a bad guy.....just a bunch of misunderstandings. I kind of like it when shows do that as I think that's usually what happens in real life. Miscommunication rather than malice.

Stonewaller
February 14th, 2007, 09:12 AM
Hello everyone, my first post, and it's a small plot hole spot:

The reasons why Egeria died have been mentioned, but why the female host (formerly Kelmaa's)? She was healthy, and the Tok'ra don't kill their hosts if they die. So why was she being carted through the stargate with a sheet over her head? If she'd lived, another symbiote could have blended and gathered the memories of both Kelmaa and Egeria.

Callista
February 14th, 2007, 11:26 AM
Hello everyone, my first post, and it's a small plot hole spot:

The reasons why Egeria died have been mentioned, but why the female host (formerly Kelmaa's)? She was healthy, and the Tok'ra don't kill their hosts if they die. So why was she being carted through the stargate with a sheet over her head? If she'd lived, another symbiote could have blended and gathered the memories of both Kelmaa and Egeria.

I think the symbiote has to make a conscious and physical effort not to take their host with them. Maybe Egeria was too weak by that point, similar to
Threads spoiler:
Jacob's explanation with Selmac.

Chaka's_Mum
February 15th, 2007, 10:56 PM
I'd go with that. Egeria was already dying by the time Malek and Kelmaa first encountered her and still thought she was a Goa'uld queen. The chances of her being strong enough to keep Kelmaa's host alive as she died were minimal. Admittedly the best explanation doesn't materialise until season 8 (hence the spoiler tags ^); but given that, when Jolinar died, she had started out in full health, and that Sam actually says that Jolinar sacrificed herself to save her, it's safe to assume from this that to do so requires a conscious decision on the part of the Symbiote - and, given that they were both hovering on the verge of death at the time, some effort. Egeria's weakened condition presumably robbed her of the ability to make that choice.

It was quite remarkable that Kelmaa's host was also willing to make that sacrifice. I suppose the two of them were so well blended that she didn't want to exist without Kelmaa and was prepared to take on Egeria because then it wouldn't be long before she followed her former symbiote.

First
June 7th, 2007, 09:24 PM
It seemed unnecessary that Kelmaa had to die. I thought a healthy symbiote can consciously leave a healthy host with no ill effect to either party. The symbiote could've survived in the tank where Egeria was.

There seems to be a number of plot holes or at least variations in the whole gou'ald queen reproduction cycle and host species compatiblilty.
Hathor gave birth to symbiotes through her host's human womb, utilising a male human to ensure the offsprings gou'ald-host compatibility.
Egeria gave birth directly through an egg sac.
Amonet gave birth to a human child, in the normal human way, except the child had the genetic memories of the parents. (I'm not sure WHY they did this)
In one episode it was mentioned that the use of Jaffa as incubators greatly increased the chance of a sucessful blend with a human host when the larva matured.

Chezlee
January 20th, 2008, 06:03 PM
To any Atlantis fans out there, I watched this episode for a second time and I just noticed that Zenna is Perna from "poisoning the well." I guess that actress loves being a part of a drug that has the potential to kill some of her people (in the case of "the cure" no tretonin means death)

As to the other issues, it said in the episode that the queens fertilize their own eggs asexually and that they choose what genetic information to pass on. Therefore, a queen would make another queen by passing on the required genetic information that would result in an offspring that could also reproduce. I don't think queens make new queens unless it is necessary for one to be made. In the case of most goauld, another queen would be a powerful rival, and in the sense of egeria she did not because she did not have the chance to or because she was to near death to do so, just as she could not save the host she took which also takes concious effort as shown when Jolinar took Carter.

Another thing someone mentioned, I dont think the queen found in "the first ones" it cant be Cleopatra because the goauld on that planet used Unas as hosts and that queen never made it to Earth, obviously since she was dead on the planet with the Unas. so the Goa'uld Cleopatra would have had to come to Earth.

garhkal
January 27th, 2008, 06:46 AM
That is an interesting possibility for that actress, but it is more the PTB required a female actor for the role and she was available.

Mr Prophet
January 27th, 2008, 09:01 AM
Another thing someone mentioned, I dont think the queen found in "the first ones" it cant be Cleopatra because the goauld on that planet used Unas as hosts and that queen never made it to Earth, obviously since she was dead on the planet with the Unas. so the Goa'uld Cleopatra would have had to come to Earth.

Rothman just called her Cleopatra. There's no canonical reason to suspect that the historical Cleopatra was anything but human in the Gateverse.

Chezlee
January 27th, 2008, 10:00 AM
Rothman just called her Cleopatra. There's no canonical reason to suspect that the historical Cleopatra was anything but human in the Gateverse.

good point :)

captain jake
July 4th, 2008, 10:55 PM
So let's set this whole Egeria thing out on the table. Egeria supposedly spawned the Tok'ra movement 2,000 years ago at the same time that she broke from the Goa'uld. After which she went to Earth in order to stop the Goa'uld from enslaving humans. At which time she was an adviser to the Roman leader Numa Pompilius after which she was found and killed by Ra. Did I get that right or am I missing something?

Butlersgate
March 14th, 2009, 07:13 AM
So let's set this whole Egeria thing out on the table. Egeria supposedly spawned the Tok'ra movement 2,000 years ago at the same time that she broke from the Goa'uld. After which she went to Earth in order to stop the Goa'uld from enslaving humans. At which time she was an adviser to the Roman leader Numa Pompilius after which she was found and killed by Ra. Did I get that right or am I missing something?

from what i remember of the episode, you did :) i liked that this episode explained how the tok'ra came to be

The Stig
May 11th, 2009, 11:13 PM
Nice... A race using the Goa'uld rather than the other way around.. ;) Too bad she/it wasn't really a Goa'uld.

Yes too bad. It does solve some questions i had about the Tokra though. I liked this ep.

balo
May 18th, 2009, 07:53 AM
It was an ok episode , we learned about the Tok'ra and how it all started 2000 years ago.

Rating : 6 / 10

gateship15
May 19th, 2009, 02:35 AM
yes great episode that was great to find out more about the Tok'ra

mrscopterdoc
March 23rd, 2010, 09:32 AM
I liked this episode as well, although it was very sad about the queen.

asdf1239
March 30th, 2010, 01:59 PM
hmm the pangarans just get let off the hook with "don't worry, we're still friends" after torturing the tokra queen for many decades resulting in the probable extinction of the species. i'm sure sg-1's reaction wouldve been different if there had been, say, a jaffa as the victim.

asdf1239
April 9th, 2010, 10:36 PM
uh who makes tretonin now for the jaffa, the tokra or the pangarans?

maneth
October 8th, 2010, 10:48 AM
Interesting episode, but there were some oddities. One is the asexual reproduction of queens. If that's really the case, all her descendants would be her clones, even if unable to reproduce and not necessarily born with her genetic memories.

Dave2
December 12th, 2011, 11:21 AM
So the bottom line is that the Pangarans were experimenting for all those years on TOK'RA symbiotes, not GOA'ULD ones..........
And is it correct to say that peoples such the Aeschens who never had contact with the goa'uld were "seeded" on their planets directly by the Ancients?? On planets such as Pangara and Lagara how did the people completely lose any effect or record of contact with the goa'ulds who brought them there originally?

Seaboe Muffinchucker
December 22nd, 2011, 07:18 PM
I really like this episode because there are no villains. It proves you can write an interesting story without clear cut good-guys and bad-guys. In fact, IMO, it's more of a challenge than the other type of story.

Seaboe

Matt G
January 11th, 2012, 02:31 PM
I stuck a VHS into my Halls of Res machine...

1. You have to laugh at the opening scene...

2. Did the Pangerans even understand Jack's French.

3. Our introduction to tretonin - bit of an eyebrow raiser when it's origins were discovered.

4. I reckon the shock of being entered(including being bitten) must have caused the guy's body to drop.

5. And to top it off...

6. RIP Egeria, can't really blame any one party for anything.

Solid enough ep.

NowIWillDestroyAbydos
January 13th, 2012, 07:21 PM
This is a pretty important episode regarding the mythos of the series.

2 things I liked: how SG-1 is introduced (and Jack acting like Jack) and the Earthings/Earthlings line.

More about this episode will be revealed later this season.

Monday, the introduction of Earth's first battle-cruiser, the Prometheus.

Krisz
January 15th, 2012, 06:00 PM
I love those moments where we see the 'alien' point of view about the people of Earth. With this rewatch I've been enjoying the exchanges between Teal'c and Jonas and how they see the people and customs of the planet they called 'home' for a time.

The opening scene was a great example, the Pangarans' expectations regarding the people of Earth and who came through the gate as the representative! LOL!

It was a real double blow for the Tok'ra, first being decimated by their enemies and their numbers shrinking by the day. Then they find out that their salvation in the form of their rediscovered Queen is dying as a result of being experimented on! Can't help but feel sorry for them.

It was a nice touch though that Egeria could speak to a couple of her offspring and showed how different the Tok'ra were in that she forgave the Pangarans and saved their lives by giving the final piece of information to allow the successful creation of an antidote to Tretonin. I also liked the way that in a way it was Egeria that in a round about way freed the Jaffa from their dependence on Goa'uld symbiotes, and this I guess was how the Tok'ra's finally won their war against the Goa'uld.

Jae'a
January 16th, 2012, 07:43 AM
My LiveJournal post (http://jo-r-lee.livejournal.com/32276.html)
:( Poor Egeria...

jelgate
January 16th, 2012, 06:05 PM
I barely remember Egeria from a previous episode when I saw this. Its a foundation epiosde as tretonin is used in future episodes. Its interesting how the Pangarians used the Goa'uld regenetive powers and was able to siphon it for their own use. The science person in me wonders how such a process occur. It seems like something that would be too complicated for the general audience but still it would be interesting to find out. This is another good episode for Jonas to show off his lingual skills. He seems to be not as obsessive as Daniel. Speaking of the ruins it was so sad to see Egeria die. I think Joel (music) and the actor in question did great work in playing a somber as she dies and how the whole thing was a big mistake.

Lieutenant Sparrow
February 5th, 2012, 02:56 AM
Not a bad ep. The best parts being the revelation that the queen was Tok'ra and the introduction of tritonan.

Very sad ending with Egeria dying.

discodiva
February 5th, 2012, 03:02 AM
I think that Egeria is a simply beautiful name...:D


Deeds xx

filter
November 9th, 2012, 01:31 AM
Couldn't Egeria simply have chosen not to produce any offspring at all? Unless they somehow forced her to.
When it comes to spawning new queens, I think the current one must make a conscious choice to do so. The fact that there are so few queens though does mean that the ones that do exist can become very powerful.
It would have been good if Egeria had been able to spawn another queen either before she was captured 2000 years ago and hid it or just before she died

garhkal
November 10th, 2012, 12:14 PM
Perhaps its biological that they produce offspring, so Egeria could not stop it.

Cluas
January 28th, 2013, 01:26 PM
A fine episode.
It didn't start so well. I mean -They never thought the tritonium to be dangerous? It was so obvious to me, first time I saw that bottle. And giving them addresses to peaceful worlds, before checking out anything?
No alarm bells going off when they wanted to visit Goa'uld Worlds?

Then it all got better. Jonas was back in action, i missed him in the previous episodes.
Nice surprise with the symbiotes and the queen - Especially when they discovered it was actually the Tok'ra. Good happy ending, except for the queen dying. The Tok'ra must have been very sad. I was a little sad too. I enjoyed the fact that there were no "bad guys" in this, just misunderstandings.

:jonas:

Seaboe Muffinchucker
January 29th, 2013, 07:18 AM
They never thought the tritonium to be dangerous? It was so obvious to me, first time I saw that bottle. And giving them addresses to peaceful worlds, before checking out anything?
No alarm bells going off when they wanted to visit Goa'uld Worlds?

We don't know what negotiations occurred before the actual visit of SG1.

Seaboe

Cluas
January 29th, 2013, 07:40 AM
We don't know what negotiations occurred before the actual visit of SG1.

Seaboe

Oh thanks, good explanation, silly me :o

Seaboe Muffinchucker
January 30th, 2013, 06:41 AM
No, not silly. It's just TPTB often take short cuts to eliminate what they think will be the boring stuff. So you need to extrapolate that there are things going on off-screen.

Seaboe

Cluas
January 30th, 2013, 11:16 PM
No, not silly. It's just TPTB often take short cuts to eliminate what they think will be the boring stuff. So you need to extrapolate that there are things going on off-screen.

Seaboe

Hi there Seaboe, just want to express my thanks again. It's good to see what others think about the show.
Personally I wouldn't have given them any adresses, but then again, Teal'c might never have gotten the Tritonin he needed
:indeed:

Insolent Slave
February 23rd, 2013, 08:14 PM
Good episode, I love the history and the Tok'ra with the cool voice! My one issue is, how the hell did that big old pregnant queen get inside a human body??

Anyway, another culture we don't here from again and more actors that make reappearances in various episodes but as different characters within the SG word!

Chaka's_Mum
March 5th, 2013, 12:49 PM
Beatrice came up with an interesting theory to cover the 'getting a Goa'uld Queen into a human host' query - something along the lines of only occupying a female, and making use of the ready-made incubator we carry around with us (now that sounds really gross...). Essentially, the Queen enters the female host in the usual fashion, and presumably spawns symbiotes via the host's reproductive system. In the absence of a nearby womb, the Queen expands to do the spawning herself. In Egeria's case, Beatrice posited that she was able to abandon/contract the spawning sac so that she could enter Kelmaa's host.

It's a solid theory, and it certainly makes sense - inasmuch as such a scenario can make sense!

All in all, a very poignant episode in terms of the future of the Tok'ra, given that the one queen who was spawning Tok'ra young is now no more. But, on the other hand, a great legacy to hand on to the Jaffa now that there's a potential alternative means of survival to the usual method of incubating a Goa'uld. It's certainly an excellent selling point for a fledgling rebellion on a recruitment drive...

Falcon Horus
July 4th, 2013, 03:25 PM
Damn there goes another Atlantis episode down the drain for copying an SG1 script, even using the same actress as main player... damn, damn, damn... I'm not going to enjoy watching SGA again. I'll be reminded of 7 years of SG1.

Anyhow... Egeria, the first Tok'ra, alive and not so well spawning flawed young to screw over the Pangarans who continue their research anyway and get addicted to the good stuff. When the stuff runs out, I bet a simple cold could kill them.

Good to see Malek again, who doesn't really care about the Pangaran's research until it is revealed to be a Tok'ra and not a Goa'uld floating in the tank. On that notion, how exactly did that symbiote go from a little snake imprisoned in a canopic jar, much like Isis and Osiris were, to that fat queen in the tank.

But oh cool... symbiote birds and bees, like we didn't get enough of that with Hathor. They don't need a man-friend to procreate, how nice. :p

Aw, and is Jonas flirting with the lead archaeologist... how cute!

jelgate
July 4th, 2013, 03:40 PM
Are we going to have that argument FH?:P

Falcon Horus
July 4th, 2013, 03:47 PM
Are we going to have that argument FH?:P

I knew you'd be all over it... that should be rule, you know. :p

jelgate
July 4th, 2013, 03:54 PM
Thats a given. I am usually all over people I think are wrong:P

Baron Of Hell
July 6th, 2013, 06:44 AM
I liked that there wasn't a evil force messing with anybody. Just some guys that didn't know any better. I enjoyed the episode and thought it was a good change of pace.

Seaboe Muffinchucker
July 10th, 2013, 11:33 AM
Yeah, that's one of my favorite things about it, too. And that it leaves us hanging (we don't know if the Pangarans can be helped when the episode ends).

Seaboe

I Am Not James Spader
September 14th, 2015, 12:44 PM
A fine episode.
It didn't start so well. I mean -They never thought the tritonium to be dangerous? It was so obvious to me, first time I saw that bottle. And giving them addresses to peaceful worlds, before checking out anything?
No alarm bells going off when they wanted to visit Goa'uld Worlds?

Then it all got better. Jonas was back in action, i missed him in the previous episodes.
Nice surprise with the symbiotes and the queen - Especially when they discovered it was actually the Tok'ra. Good happy ending, except for the queen dying. The Tok'ra must have been very sad. I was a little sad too. I enjoyed the fact that there were no "bad guys" in this, just misunderstandings.

:jonas:

SG-1 was wary of the tretonin - that is why they brought it home to have Fraser check it out.

And there was alarm bells about the Pangerans wanting to visit Go'auld worlds - that is why Jack called them stupid.

However, there was no way that anyone could predict the connection.

There is something that confused me though - the Queen was still in the tank when the Tok'ra scientist was found unconscious after having made the transfer. So how did all that work? How was the Queen inside the host if her body was also inside the tank? And I'm not nit picking at it or claiming plot hole - I've missed something that was probably obvious or from previous episodes so I need my blanks filled in. ;)

Anyway, a great episode. Real thoughtful sci-fi in the vain of the original Star Trek and when SG-1 steps into that territory it always puts the likes of The Next Generation and Voyager to shame.

Britta
September 14th, 2015, 02:34 PM
There is something that confused me though - the Queen was still in the tank when the Tok'ra scientist was found unconscious after having made the transfer. So how did all that work? How was the Queen inside the host if her body was also inside the tank? And I'm not nit picking at it or claiming plot hole - I've missed something that was probably obvious or from previous episodes so I need my blanks filled in. ;)

That whole thing wasn't going to fit in someone's head. It must have shed all that baby weight (:valaanime06:) so that it could take a host.

I Am Not James Spader
September 16th, 2015, 06:28 AM
That whole thing wasn't going to fit in someone's head. It must have shed all that baby weight (:valaanime06:) so that it could take a host.

Yes, but have they ever explained it? Did they queen give her consciousness to one of her "defective" offspring?

And since she had clearly abandoned her body, why did she still die? Was it a case that her entire being was beyond saving - that her body AND soul were exhausted from the experience?

Britta
September 16th, 2015, 08:28 AM
I meant that the reproductive part grows around the core part of the symbiote, and can be shed, allowing that symbiote to take a host. It was still the same body, just not all of it.

Just my theory, though.

Seaboe Muffinchucker
September 16th, 2015, 08:55 AM
I agree with Britta. It looked to me as if what was left in the tank was only part of the symbiote.

Seaboe

I Am Not James Spader
September 16th, 2015, 02:36 PM
I meant that the reproductive part grows around the core part of the symbiote, and can be shed, allowing that symbiote to take a host. It was still the same body, just not all of it.

Just my theory, though.

Your theory works for me. ;) Damn clever of you too. :)

Anja
September 23rd, 2015, 01:01 PM
Could have been a two-parter for me, then we would have learned more about the Tok'Ra queen and about the development of Tretonin and about the fate of the natives.

Science
May 24th, 2016, 04:20 PM
I love the show Da Vinci's Inquest. The actress (Gwynyth Walsh) who played Kelmaa in this episode (the lady who took the queen symbiote) was a star in Da Vinci's Inquest. The next SG-1 episode, Prometheus, has yet another star of Da Vinci's Inquest: Ian Tracey playing the character named Smith. The strange thing is that since the first time I saw Teryl Rothery (who plays Dr Janet Fraiser in SG-1) I've thought that I've seen her before in Da Vinci's Inquest. I did some research today and found that she was in fact in one episode of Da Vinci's Inquest. I'm wondering who else from that show had a role in SG-1.

--edit--
Just saw another one! Alex Diakun (the alien historian guy) in 130.S06.20 - Memento, is also a star of Da Vinci's Inquest.

hedwig
May 24th, 2016, 07:20 PM
I watch NCIS and started noticing that numerous people from the SG world were guests on that show. I made a list one time of all those folks and came up with a list of over 50 actors who made an appearance on NCIS and NCIS:LA.

Falcon Horus
May 25th, 2016, 12:23 AM
I watch NCIS and started noticing that numerous people from the SG world were guests on that show. I made a list one time of all those folks and came up with a list of over 50 actors who made an appearance on NCIS and NCIS:LA.

Which usually incites a response the likes of "Hey, isn't that... oh damn, what was their name again. Weren't they in... you know..."

[several hours later]

"[insert name of actor or character] ... Stargate [insert show]"

Anja
May 25th, 2016, 02:44 AM
It's also the other way round: Beau Bridges played a teenage boy in one of the black-and-white eps of The Fugitive

garhkal
September 27th, 2017, 12:15 PM
I wonder how much things would have been altered, had say the divide and conquor episode actually Followed this one vice the other way around?

BethHG
July 10th, 2018, 06:52 AM
A good introduction to the queen of the Tok'ra and Tretonin.

Falcon Horus
September 8th, 2018, 10:23 AM
Another one of those episodes that I love rewatching.

I love Jonas and Teal'c working together and uncovering the truth with the help of Zenna (the actress will be back in Stargate Atlantis season 1 to have a marvellous working relationship with McGillion's Beckett).

I love that we get a glimpse of the origin story of the Tok'ra with Egeria, even if it's a glimpse. This certainly could have been expanded, but well, we'll just chuck it up to them not having more interest in it.

It's a tragic story too for all involved. The Pangarans are using Egeria to give themselves better health with the tretonin. Egeria uses herself to put a flaw in her offspring and eventually dies. Kalmah sacrifices herself for her queen. And SG-1 is just standing by and watching the tragedy unfold.

How would you rate SG-1's "Cure?"

Excellent
Good
Fair
Poor
Terrible

Seaboe Muffinchucker
September 10th, 2018, 06:12 AM
I love Jonas' line about Earthlings.

Seaboe

Falcon Horus
September 10th, 2018, 07:11 AM
I love Jonas' line about Earthlings.

Well, sort of... and that little tilt of his head. :p

Falcon Horus
September 22nd, 2018, 02:08 PM
3-episode quiz: Cure, Prometheus & Unnatural Selection (https://goo.gl/forms/s9J89viiCwzNSDAp2)

Jigsaw puzzle: Cure (https://www.jigidi.com/solve.php?id=5LE285JT)

hedwig
September 22nd, 2018, 03:07 PM
11:25 and 14/15

Falcon Horus
September 22nd, 2018, 03:20 PM
11:25 and 14/15

You've set the bar. :)

BethHG
September 22nd, 2018, 03:39 PM
12:01

jelgate
September 24th, 2018, 04:29 AM
Overall a good episode. I think what I like is the episode shows us that Jonas has Daniel's linguistic skills by translating the ruins. While I quite like the story of tretonin and Egeria. The hypocrisy of using the queen when we thought she was a Goa'uld is disturbing. Morally we are just as bad as the Goa'uld to let a queen be used by that. Besides that omission I quite like the episode. I give it a fair


You've set the bar. :) and I destroyed it with a 8;15

Who Knows
September 24th, 2018, 05:43 AM
11.50

Falcon Horus
September 24th, 2018, 12:39 PM
... and I destroyed it with a 8;15

Wasn't expecting anything less. :p

Falcon Horus
December 22nd, 2018, 01:00 PM
Aw, 3 seconds slower than Jelgate -- clocked in at 8:18.

WriterChick
February 12th, 2019, 09:47 AM
Have a question. I don't know if it has been asked before so please be patient with me.

If the Goa'uld/Tok'ra are asexual, why can't one of the Tok'ra who is "old" enough or mature enough, as the case may be, become a queen like Egeria and spawn more Tok'ra?

It would stem their negative population problem and add more to the resistance. I understand finding willing hosts is a problem, but not as much of one with planets like earth providing soldiers and the like who are no longer in active service for whatever reason like Jacob. The symbiote could heal almost all damage like cancers, which is physical, and probably aid with curing mental disorders like PTSS. I can think of no better "Doctor" or "Phsycologist" better than one who is actually in your head and healing you from the inside.

Also side question. How much damage can they heal? I get that they don't heal aging on their own without things like a sarcophagus. But what about missing limbs? Just curious.

Seaboe Muffinchucker
February 13th, 2019, 05:43 AM
I've always believed that Queen goa'uld are more like queen bees than anything else. In other words, queens are born, not made.

Seaboe

hedwig
February 13th, 2019, 10:19 AM
I've always wondered about the difference in queens that give birth. Since in Hathor, Hathor gave birth to many little ones, and the queen in cure did, too. How is there a difference in appearance between Hathor in human form doing this, and the queen in "Cure" looking like an enormous slug doing same?

Falcon Horus
February 15th, 2019, 12:40 AM
Goa'uld reproduction is like Wraith reproduction --> EW!!

WriterChick
February 20th, 2019, 09:36 AM
Another thing someone mentioned, I don't think the queen found in "the first ones" it can't be Cleopatra because the goauld on that planet used Unas as hosts and that queen never made it to Earth, obviously since she was dead on the planet with the Unas. so the Goa'uld Cleopatra would have had to come to Earth.

The queen found in "The First Ones" wasn't the Egyptian Cleopatra, who was a human queen not a god so would not be used by a Goa'uld as an identity, but a nickname used by Rothman to identify her easier than the number that Daniel assigns her.

WriterChick
February 20th, 2019, 09:49 AM
I always compared them to frogs actually. Bees all work toward a common goal until a new queen is available and the hive splits, whereas each Goa'uld becomes a rival almost as soon as it is born and begins seeking power of it's own. Certain species of amphibians are also able to switch from male to female in single gender enviroments as well.

*ribbet ribbet*