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GateWorld
April 30th, 2004, 11:12 AM
<DIV ALIGN=CENTER><TABLE WIDTH=450 BORDER=0 CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=7><TR><TD><DIV ALIGN=LEFT><FONT FACE="Arial" SIZE=2 COLOR="#000000"><A HREF="http://www.gateworld.net/sg1/s6/606.shtml"><IMG SRC="http://www.gateworld.net/sg1/graphics/606.jpg" WIDTH=160 HEIGHT=120 ALIGN=RIGHT HSPACE=10 VSPACE=2 BORDER=0 STYLE="border: 1px black solid" ALT="Visit the Episode Guide"></A><FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#666666">DISCUSS ...</FONT>
<FONT SIZE=4 COLOR="#0066BF"><B>ABYSS</B></FONT>
<FONT SIZE=1>EPISODE NUMBER - 606</FONT>
<IMG SRC="/images/clear.gif" WIDTH=1 HEIGHT=10 ALT="">
O'Neill is captured and tortured by the Goa'uld, and must rely on an old friend to survive.

<B><A HREF="http://www.gateworld.net/sg1/s6/606.shtml">Visit the Episode Guide >></A></B></FONT></DIV></TD></TR></TABLE></DIV>

morjana
May 11th, 2004, 11:51 PM
Syndicated Ratings are in for a repeat broadcast of "Abyss":

From SciFi Wire:

http://www.scifi.com/scifiwire/

Top TEN Syndicated SciFi Shows

R
A
T
I
N
G
S


I
N
F
O


Stargate SG-1---------1.9 - "Abyss" - 2nd repeat
Andromeda-------------1.7 - " Trusting The Gordian Maze" - first run
Mutant X -------------1.6 - " In Between" - first run
She Spies-------------1.6
3rd Rock--------------1.3
Angel-----------------1.3
Buffy-----------------1.3
The X-Files-----------1.3
The Outer Limits------1.2
Beastmaster-----------1.1

Source: Nielsen Galaxy Report, 4/19/04 - 4/25/04


|*|(*)|*|(*)|*|

"Stargate SG-1" is the only series in the syndicated scifi shows category to have an average season rating ABOVE 2.0 -- the average rating is now 2.26.

The next closest average rating belongs to "Mutant X" with a 1.93 rating. (Average rating not including the two week's of ratings that the SciFi Channel didn't publish during the Christmas Holidays.)

|*|(*)|*|(*)|*|

Morjana

SG1-Spoilergate
http://tv.groups.yahoo.com/group/SG1-Spoilergate/

omnian
June 13th, 2004, 06:02 AM
I was hoping to see Ba'al again since I saw him in Season 5 and what do I get? A great episode involving Ba'al, Jack AND ascended Daniel.

This is one of my favourites of Season 6. It doesn't feature a lot of action but the storyline and the dialogue between characters more than makes up for this.

I didn't think we'd see anything of Jack whilst he had a Tok'ra but it would've been nice if there was more. Other than that this was superb. Ba'al's torture of Jack, Daniel's attempts at convincing Jack to ascend, the visions of the slave he was trying to rescue......it all makes for an excellent piece of work.

SG_Mike
June 17th, 2004, 11:48 AM
I agree that the storyline and dialogue was great. Ba'al had no reserve for the methods of torture he used. I liked the aspect of rewarding Jack when he cooperated.

Madeleine
June 18th, 2004, 05:22 AM
On the first of the s6 DVDs there's a 'director's series' piece half an hour long about Martin Wood directing Abyss. It's one of the most interesting of all the DVD extras. The directing was particularly good here, and I found it fascinating to see how they did it all.

Anubis
June 18th, 2004, 07:07 AM
The best bit, when Baal dropped the knife, horizontally

Crazedwraith
June 18th, 2004, 09:24 AM
The best bit, when Baal dropped the knife, horizontally
Yeah, Ba'al's Weird gravty priosns/torture chambers really make the episode stand out.

Anubis
June 18th, 2004, 09:36 AM
I someday think I'll be smart enough to figure out how to do that :D


[yeah, in my dreams]

Elwe Singollo
June 18th, 2004, 09:43 AM
That poisen, or liquid part falling on Jack wasn't too 'ahh' -ish either, haha..

Anubis
June 18th, 2004, 09:50 AM
That poison would have hurt . . . a lot

Elwe Singollo
June 18th, 2004, 09:52 AM
Hehe... Yah...

Anubis
June 18th, 2004, 10:06 AM
The only downside for me, that woman. I didn't like what she kept saying

"Is it you" (disappears)

Elwe Singollo
June 18th, 2004, 10:09 AM
I thought it was interesting how Jack could see her, and Daniel couldn't, and Daniel at the time was 'all powerful' and such, but maybe it was just in Jack's head or something.. Or maybe it was just simple, she left before Daniel could see her, haha..

Anubis
June 18th, 2004, 10:14 AM
You're right. That was great. Daniel being this all and powerful person, and he can't even see anyone! lol

Selmak
July 11th, 2004, 07:53 AM
Baal is very cool... for a Goa'uld.

Anubis
July 11th, 2004, 07:53 AM
And also very trusty. Give him what he wants and he'll cure you and let you go!

Selmak
July 15th, 2004, 08:12 PM
Did jack's Tok'ra die?

morjana
July 15th, 2004, 09:09 PM
Did jack's Tok'ra die?

That was never clearly established. All we saw was Kanan slithering away on the ground after Jack was hit by one of Ba'al's Jaffa staff weapons at the beginning of the episode.

Morjana

DownFallAngel
July 16th, 2004, 06:42 AM
The symbiote died, leaving the memories within Jack. jack was healed using the sarcophogus, and leaving no stomache X thing. Thats why Jack had all those memories.

morjana
July 16th, 2004, 07:39 AM
The symbiote died, leaving the memories within Jack. jack was healed using the sarcophogus, and leaving no stomache X thing. Thats why Jack had all those memories.


I think you're mixing your apples and your oranges, uh, you're host and jaffa here.

The symbiote, Kanan, left Jack. We don't know for sure if Kanan died or not. That was never established in the episode (or since).

Jack wouldn't have had a stomach pouche for the symbiote, as Jack was a host for Kanan -- not a Jaffa.

Morjana

aAnubiSs
July 16th, 2004, 08:00 AM
But we can almost be certain that Kanan died. Since I don't think any non-Jaffa people was on that planet. Not counting Baals servants.

morjana
July 16th, 2004, 08:15 AM
But we can almost be certain that Kanan died. Since I don't think any non-Jaffa people was on that planet. Not counting Baals servants.


Remember "The First Ones?" Or "Bloodlines?" The symbiotes there were able to live in water.

A symbiote takes a host because that's how they're able to have a nice new body with arms and legs...and so they can eat pie.

It's possible that Kana slithered off and found some water to hide in, until Kanan found a new host (remember how muddy the area was where Jack was hit by the staff blast?).

Or died.

Morjana

aAnubiSs
July 16th, 2004, 08:16 AM
I find that very unlikely, but I guess it's possible ;)

Selmak
July 16th, 2004, 09:36 AM
It's hard for a symbiote to ask if they can go in your head if they are not already in a host.

Elwe Singollo
July 16th, 2004, 09:58 AM
And didn't Kanon escape Jacks body? So i don't think Jack would have gotten all the memories that Kanon had.

morjana
July 16th, 2004, 10:29 AM
It's hard for a symbiote to ask if they can go in your head if they are not already in a host.


When the symbiote is in a Jaffa, the symbiote and Jaffa don't communicate, and the symbiote has NO control over the Jaffa. The symbiote can't communicate through the Jaffa. They symbiote is a Jaffa is carried within the stomach pouch.

The symbiote in a host is wrapped around the host's brain stem...where the body's autonomic brain systems are housed. That's why a symbiote can control a host.

One of the reasons **why** the Goa'uld are so reviled and feared, is that they **do not** ask for permission to invade a host -- they just do it.

It's the Tok'ra who are the more polite symbiotes -- generally they ask permission -- except in dire emergencies for the symbiote apparently (thinking of Jolinar from "In the Line of Duty").

Morjana

Selmak
July 16th, 2004, 11:32 AM
I was refering to Kanon... the Tok'ra... he either died or broke the Tok'ra rule again and got another host without asking permission.

Genty
July 23rd, 2004, 09:52 AM
Am I the only one who really, really didnt like this episode?

Selmak
July 26th, 2004, 08:19 PM
I'm sure you're not the only one... but in this thread you seem to be.

SeaBee
September 19th, 2004, 09:11 AM
This was the one episode I didn't really enjoy. I don't like torture scenes, and I found this one a little disturbing.
Nice effect with the gravity changing in the cell though.

SecretArt
October 3rd, 2004, 10:05 AM
Not sure if this has been mentioned before, but just after the title sequence when the sarcophogus opens to reveal Jack he has a perfect shirt, but then it goes to Ba'al and when it's back on Jack there is a wound mark on his shoulder.
Did anyone else notice this? Or know why it's there? (sorry if this has already been discussed somewhere)

mishy_mo
October 4th, 2004, 03:03 AM
Not sure if this has been mentioned before, but just after the title sequence when the sarcophogus opens to reveal Jack he has a perfect shirt, but then it goes to Ba'al and when it's back on Jack there is a wound mark on his shoulder.
Did anyone else notice this? Or know why it's there? (sorry if this has already been discussed somewhere)

can't say i have but i have noticed that the sarcophagus is a little varied in whither is 'heals' clothes, i noticed this back in the season 1 finale when Daniel comes out of it completely whole, clothes and all hmm maybe i should write this there as well

any way i think this episode is awesome, it's fantastic and i can't really tell you why theres no big explosions, no big ship just a fantastic piece of writing which is pulled off in style!

Lord Zedd
October 20th, 2004, 11:10 PM
this episode was awesome ! Ba'al was in it and Daniel :D

Lord Zedd
October 20th, 2004, 11:12 PM
Remember "The First Ones?" Or "Bloodlines?" The symbiotes there were able to live in water.

A symbiote takes a host because that's how they're able to have a nice new body with arms and legs...and so they can eat pie.

It's possible that Kana slithered off and found some water to hide in, until Kanan found a new host (remember how muddy the area was where Jack was hit by the staff blast?).

Or died.

Morjana
it's possible yeah

omnian
October 29th, 2004, 02:35 PM
I just rewatched this episode and it is simply amazing. The first time viewing I was in awe of how beautifully well done this was but this has got to be my 7th time watching it and it is still good!

The music that plays when Jack is put in his cell for one of the last times is so sad and I think it really reflects how the character might feel. Hell, I even felt like crying at that point! (Granted I can't but, hey, the thought's there!)

This has got to be one of my absolute favourites.

Cactus
October 30th, 2004, 08:40 PM
The Cactus Looks Back: Abyss

A wonderful episode that reminds me very much of the Babylon 5 episode Intersections in Real Time (4.18). In fact, I think it would have been much more powerful had the SGC scenes been minimized (or even excluded), and the focus remained on O'Neill for the entire show. Unfortunately, this wouldn't really have worked, as the silent influence of Daniel Jackson on the others was an important element in the story's resolution.

But the conflict scenes with Thoran detracted from the A-plot, in my opinion. And as I believe Martin Wood mentioned in Frozen's commentary, the Dorian Harewood character (who was interesting) really wasn't given enough material, anyway. I can only imagine that this was used to forward hostility between the Tok'ra and Earth, but please don't spoil anything for me! I'm actually only at 6.07 at the time of writing this. ;)

I also think Abyss could have benefitted from a darker, more abrasive set design. Don't get me wrong-- the "torture chamber" looked great. The holding cell was a little bland and non-threatening outside of the whole gravity thing, though, I thought. The facility could have just as likely been a Goa'uld health spa. A more menacing set would have made O'Neill's plight as much a visual hell as it was a mental one.

Intersections in Real Time lacked the emotional impact of this episode, however-- with the first appearance of Daniel Jackson in season six. But then, IiRT was more about the interrogation mind games. Both excellent episodes for their distinct series.

Jane
November 6th, 2004, 06:39 AM
I just love this episode, this by far is one of my favs. I like that we get to see Danny boy again, and the whole thing between Jack and Daniel was fantastic. :D :cool:

LMichelle
December 21st, 2004, 02:13 PM
I agree. The Jack/Daniel scenes were great. They were the highlight of this episode. :)

zats
January 2nd, 2005, 06:59 PM
Wow.

Wow wow wow wow wow.

Just read the script for this in Essential Scripts.

Wow.

If the ep is half as good as the script makes it sound, it must be exceptional.

Wow.


[This my 200th posting!]

morjana
January 2nd, 2005, 07:39 PM
[QUOTE=zats]Wow.
Wow wow wow wow wow.
Just read the script for this in Essential Scripts.
Wow.
If the ep is half as good as the script makes it sound, it must be exceptional.
Wow. QUOTE]

Oh. "Abyss" is a MARVELOUS episode -- not only is the acting first rate (from everyone involved), but the sets and special effects are magical, especially the gravity sets.

RDA is just stunning -- especially that last scene in the cell between Jack and Daniel, when Jack realizes that there is hope. Oh, my...

I've only seen this episode maybe, oh, well, 50-60 times, and I always look forward to seeing it again. (The only episode I've seen more in Stargate is "Solitudes," and let's not even discuss Star Trek.)

Morjana

zats
January 2nd, 2005, 07:45 PM
I've got to see it!

Hohenzollern
January 2nd, 2005, 08:26 PM
I LOVED this episode. If it were possible for a laser in the DVD player to burn out the track where the episode resides on my discs; it would have done so.

I loved the sets, the acting was top shelf. The torture scenes only added to the drama and intense need to get his ass <O'Neill) out of there.

The writing was tight, nothing unnecessary.

Enjoyed the interaction between the O'Neill and Daniel characters; especially O'Neill's "confession" that he is not "better than that, etc".

I really enjoyed seeing Ulla Fris, who played "the woman". She's a hunny-bunny. Since she went with the Tok'ra, sure would not mind seeing her again.

zats
January 3rd, 2005, 02:17 PM
Yes, the interaction between Daniel and Jack was really, really good. I haven't seen a lot of S6, but I'd imagine that it was especially good to see MS back in the role (CN did a great job filling Shanks's shoes, but there are some people who just can't be replaced)--like a breath of fresher air.

jckfan55
January 4th, 2005, 10:23 AM
Heavy episode. Well done.

couchpotatergater
January 23rd, 2005, 01:13 PM
This is one of my favourite eps. I love Jack/Daniel stuff, & the different perspective to their friendship with Daniel being ascended was great - same old...yet different!
The gravity cells & torture grill were brilliant too, as was Baal (my fav SL).
This ep is followed up quite nicely in a couple of the new books, which add some detail about what happened to Jack & the lingering effects of the torture - worth a read.
The ending is poignant & reminded me of the Jack/Daniel scene in Meridian when Daniel asks Jack to let him go; it brought a lump to my throat.

I also wondered about Canan being alive: here's a thought, Marduk, the Goa'uld in "The Tomb", S5, survived by going into that weird creature, so poss Canan could have done likewise, & then jumped into a new host if the opportunity presented. I did think it would have been interesting to see the character again, with his knowledge of Jack's innermost feelings, & the way he used him & then bailed out. Don't think we will see him again though, in all likelihood he paid the ultimate penalty for his abuse of Jack & his cowardice & just died.

OneillTwo"LL"s
February 7th, 2005, 03:11 PM
Remember "The First Ones?" Or "Bloodlines?" The symbiotes there were able to live in water.

A symbiote takes a host because that's how they're able to have a nice new body with arms and legs...and so they can eat pie.It's possible that Kana slithered off and found some water to hide in, until Kanan found a new host (remember how muddy the area was where Jack was hit by the staff blast?).

Or died.

Morjana


Thanks for the Laugh http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v145/SueCanada989/Smileys/laugh.gif

I was just watching "Urgo" last night.. and I want to eat pie keeps popping up

OneillTwo"LL"s
February 7th, 2005, 03:25 PM
Okay now my comments on this Episode...

Well I can't watch it without a Kleenix box near by (sorry I am a crier)

When Jack says he's not good enough to accend and says "That's were your wrong"

and then he suggest that Daniel can end it. The reaction on Daniels face, his eyes are so..oops off topic

I watched the commentary that goes along with this episode and I agree with Chris Judge on this, that RDA and MS will not admit that they are great actors, eventhough we all agree they are.
I find that RDA and MS bring out the best in each other. Watching them together is great.

Okay I am mumbly now go to go...

Yu`
February 7th, 2005, 05:30 PM
Wonderful episode! The Jackson/O'neill chemistry was as strong as ever. More Ba'al please! he was fantastic in this episode.

Hex.FTB.enabled
March 3rd, 2005, 11:34 AM
One of season 6's best. The Jack/Daniel interaction had been sorely missed (and I like Jonas too, calm down), and it was written with a great balance of angst and humor. RDA and MS both were wonderful.

This ep also took what little respect I might have still had for the Tok'ra. They are every bit as arrogant as the Goa'uld, I rarely hear a host speak except to say "I agree."

And all the anti-gravity stuff was just nifty!

Metarock Sam
March 3rd, 2005, 12:08 PM
Basically best s6 episode next to Full Circle.
The Torture was fun and the whole getting to beleive Daniel thing was good. Also the vertical prisons were weird and slifgtly confusing :S .
9/10 The whole 'Is it you' Thing got annyoying.

Suzcecoz
March 8th, 2005, 10:26 AM
Great episode. Ba'al is simply wonderful. It establishes that he's genuinely unique and actually has personality and isn't just another random cliched Goa'uld.

The Shadow
March 8th, 2005, 11:11 AM
You just gotta love Jack's little sarcasm infront of Ba'al. I actually don't know the meaning of the word Impudence until I looked it up in the dictionary. Those Goa'ulds always use big words, i guess to show that they are more advanced than us Tau'ri, but come on, they're at least hundreds of years old. Anyways, it was a touching episode. Sucks for Daniel, when you got powers to rule the universe but can't bust your buddy out of prison. :D

I like how Jack said,"Though a candle burns in my house, there's nobody home." It sounded really strange coming out of his mouth, sounds a little too advance for him. I always think he's stuck in the mind of a 3 year old. :p

The episode is definely on my top 10 list, right behind Message In a Bottle which is my favorite. :eek:

This episode had comedy, drama, and everything else you ever want, including the beautiful guest appearence of Michael Shanks (Daniel Jackson) :cool:

It was definely 10 out of 10

Rune
March 9th, 2005, 05:55 AM
This is one of my favourite eps, as already mentioned up the thread the scene where Jack's left alone in his cell and simply slumps to the floor says so much, we've gotten so used to seeing him characteristically sarcastic / defiant in the face of interrogation & torture that it's a bit of a slap in the face to catch a glimpse of sudden vulnerability. The same thing shows once more when Jack gasps out 'Don't' thinking that Ba'al is about to burn him again, both those moments always affect me.

Good to see that Jack & Daniel friendly-yet-antagonistic relationship back in action, the shoe throwing scene always makes me smile as does Teal'c with his somewhat clumsy yet sincere attempt at comforting Sam.

As for Ba'al, his attitude and his weird gravity prisons, what can you say? One very smooth bad guy indeed!

niallzer_uh_huh
March 9th, 2005, 06:19 AM
This is definitely one of my favourite episodes. Ba'al is such a great character- and most of my liking for him comes from this episode!

It's so full of memorable moments. It got me thinking that Season 6 could be a great thing. Unfortunately, I was not happy with most of the season.

They really should've showed a bit more action from the end, as it was such a critical moment. But it was OK, seeing as Jack threw his shoe through Daniel!

emily_reich
March 9th, 2005, 09:55 PM
for some reason, i always forget to list this one among my faves :S

but as you can tell from my sig :D i love this episode, and baal was awesome :) but the interaction between jack and daniel was moving, the scenes on earth had some funny moments, and the torture scenes really bring out both characters (baal and jack) really well :) like basically everyone said, baal's not just a cliched goauld and that's a good thing :)

but the story was really good too, and i'm not usually a big fan of jack-heavy serious episodes... touching, moving... one thing i'd say season 6 had a lot more than any other season (abyss, the changeling, prophecy to name a few :)), and something that i wish they'd have more often :)

still, did i mention baal stole the show?? :D well, the torture scenes anyway :) what i found amazing was that both cliff simon and RDA were acting to absolutely nothing during those torture scenes!! so add fabulous acting to the list of greats on this episode :)

IMForeman
March 10th, 2005, 12:34 AM
I also really like Cliff Simon's performance in this one. His take on Baal is very different from the many other System Lords we see. He plays him as a real psychopath: charming, conversation, and utterly without a moral center. I think this makes him one of the most dangerous system lords in his own way. He's not over the top evil like Apophis and Anubis... he's just devious and sadistic in a very subtle way... smiling and chatting while he's inflicting bruatal injury. Very, very effective performance... much like the Roger Delgado version of The Master from early 70's Doctor Who.

-IMF

The Ultimate Obsession
March 10th, 2005, 03:32 PM
Abyss is my most favoritest episode. I LOVE CS and Baal in it. and also all the jack baal interactions. oH AND if anyone wants more Baal talk tjhere is a sweet lil Baal appreciation thread over in general discussion.

zats
March 13th, 2005, 10:15 AM
I love the "Though a candle burns in my house, nobody's home" part. One of the best Jack quotes we've had.

emily_reich
March 13th, 2005, 11:24 AM
lol!! yes!! i agree! i loved that line!! smart yet not :p quintessential jack :p

JonasQuinn
March 13th, 2005, 05:16 PM
Lol, oh yeah! I just love the look on their faces when he says something like that. I felt so sorry for Jack in this episode, he just has such a miserable little face. The chick in it was cool but.

emily_reich
April 7th, 2005, 03:13 PM
normally, i have to admit, i don't really care either way what they do to jack :p he's one of the few characters i really don't whump :S

BUT i absolutely loved the stuff between jack and daniel and then jack and the lotar (especially the way she'd appear and then fade away :) made it more moving like that i thought :)) and everyone did a fabulous emotional job :D

and of course baal is in it :D :p

Lys
May 1st, 2005, 11:57 PM
I can understand why you seem all so happy with this episode. I agree that the story and the interaction between Jack and Daniel are really great and powerful.

But, there's something that prevents me to enjoying Abyss. I don't understand why Daniel followed the rules of the Ascended. He was never the one to follow orders and rules before his ascension, how is it that he began to do that at the very moment his friend needed him the most ? To me, it's completely out of character for Daniel. Which is sad because I never truely enjoyed Abyss because of that.

yasureubetcha
May 2nd, 2005, 12:05 AM
I hated that Daniel wouldn't help Jack when I first watched it; I was honestly ready to dislike Daniel for that. But then after seeing that he couldn't stop Anubis
(Threads)and getting the full story in Threads it seemed like he just knew that trying to help wouldn't do him any good. I think if he literally could have helped, he would have. But it did make me wonder how that affected their friendship...I mean if a friend refused to help me when he had the power to do so, would I be able to trust him after that, even if everything worked out in the situation at hand?

Beatrice Otter
May 7th, 2005, 11:31 AM
I hated that Daniel wouldn't help Jack when I first watched it; I was honestly ready to dislike Daniel for that. But then after seeing that he couldn't stop Anubis
(Threads)and getting the full story in Threads it seemed like he just knew that trying to help wouldn't do him any good. I think if he literally could have helped, he would have. But it did make me wonder how that affected their friendship...I mean if a friend refused to help me when he had the power to do so, would I be able to trust him after that, even if everything worked out in the situation at hand?
Yeah. Even if, after descension, Daniel doesn't remember it, Jack does. And even if he doesn't want to deal with it, it should still affect how he interacts with Daniel. But we've never seen a hint of it.

Believer
May 7th, 2005, 10:38 PM
I can understand why you seem all so happy with this episode. I agree that the story and the interaction between Jack and Daniel are really great and powerful.

But, there's something that prevents me to enjoying Abyss. I don't understand why Daniel followed the rules of the Ascended. He was never the one to follow orders and rules before his ascension, how is it that he began to do that at the very moment his friend needed him the most ? To me, it's completely out of character for Daniel. Which is sad because I never truely enjoyed Abyss because of that.

He had no choice in the matter. The other ascended would have know if he helped Jack, and as Daniel was newly ascended, I don't think he knew what would happen to him, if he broke the rule of non-interference. And as an ascended being, he was no longer the Daniel we knew, so as much as he loved Jack, he would not break the rule.

I think the pathos of Jack initially pleading for help and Daniel being "powerless" to help, made the episode so compelling. I thought Abyss was excellent, in both writing, directing, special effects and of course, acting.

valaCB
May 21st, 2005, 10:37 AM
Fantastic episode and RDA was SUPER!!!
love the interaction between Jack and Daniel too but what Daniel was doing in here??? i was surprised

Noo ani Anqueetus
June 9th, 2005, 03:35 PM
Abyss is quite possibly my favorite episode in season 6. There were so many great moments between Daniel and Jack. For all those who didn't like that Daniel wouldn't help, I got the impression that more than anything he wanted to blow up the walls, and strike all the jaffa with lightning bolts. But he knew that the "others" were watching him..."They're ALWAYS watching..."

QuiGonJohn
June 9th, 2005, 04:55 PM
I liked it. Good to see Daniel again. Breaks up him not being in most of season 6.

Noo ani Anqueetus
June 9th, 2005, 06:11 PM
I liked that even though Daniel was at a higher level of existance, he was still the same old guy. The PTB didn't try to change his personality. His personality was good enough to allow him to ascend in the first place, no need to change.

Beatrice Otter
June 12th, 2005, 05:38 PM
Abyss is quite possibly my favorite episode in season 6. There were so many great moments between Daniel and Jack. For all those who didn't like that Daniel wouldn't help, I got the impression that more than anything he wanted to blow up the walls, and strike all the jaffa with lightning bolts. But he knew that the "others" were watching him..."They're ALWAYS watching..."
Oh, absolutely. And anyone who didn't get that in this ep should have gotten it it Threads in S8.

What bugs me about this episode isn't in this episode, it's in the lack of follow up to it. O'Neill is brutally tortured. For a long time. HE comes very close to breaking; he admits that.

Yet next week, and the week after, and the week after that, it's business as usual. No counseling, no nightmares, no post-traumatic stress, no recovery time of any kind. No lingering issues of any kind, either. It bugs me. Especially when Daniel shows up again in season seven. Daniel is Jack's best friend. Daniel had the power to break him out and stop the torture. Daniel didn't. And Jack has no issues with this? We as viewers know that Daniel couldn't have done anything; Jack, in the middle of things and not seeing what Daneil sees, can't know that. And even if he did, I'd still expect at least some kind of issues; issues like that are rarely rational.. But there's nothing.

Anubis345
June 12th, 2005, 09:09 PM
i like this Ep because it is the return of Daniel

Sha're
June 13th, 2005, 11:04 AM
I was ready to dislike Daniel in this episode too, for all the reasons others have outlined. But the first time I watched it - without knowing what was to come in the rest of the season - I remembered that is Daniel's nature, to explore and understand new cultures as well as being fiercely loyal to his friends. He couldn't help and that is the nature of the difference between him and Jack.
But I loved this episode, RDA is truly fantastic and this one just makes me cry. Ba'al is evil.... the enjoyment with which he tortures O'Neill is obvious. OOOH he's a good baddie.

Madeleine
June 13th, 2005, 02:09 PM
Daniel had the power to break him out and stop the torture. Daniel didn't. And Jack has no issues with this? We as viewers know that Daniel couldn't have done anything; Jack, in the middle of things and not seeing what Daneil sees, can't know that.

He did know that though - Daniel told him.

"I'd break you out of here"

"The Others would stop you".

That seemed to be borne out later in s6 when Daniel reminded Jack that there was a line he couldn't cross; Jack told him "cross it"; and Daniel went to goodness-knows-where-but-Jack-certainly-didn't. I'm sure Jack worked out that there was a high likelihood of Daniel's disappearance being connected with these 'Others' long before the start of s7.

Besides, it's not like Daniel didn't do anything. He made it possible for Jack to get himself out - less dramatic than a glowy jailbreak with much glowy zapping, but still pretty helpful. Jack's thanks at the end of the ep make it clear (IMO) that Jack sees this.

QuiGonJohn
June 14th, 2005, 04:46 AM
I'm certain, as to the way they showed it, that Daniel put the idea in Teal'c's mind about how to get Jack out. I just wondered why they didn't make that clearer.

hollyshannensangel
June 30th, 2005, 04:35 AM
Ah, I remeber watching this epsiode, so I did actually watch some of the episodes from this season. :o This episode I loved again another great slasher episode lots and lots and lots of Danny boy and Jack moments *sighs*. And Ba'al what a cute lol. Granted that it was perdictable that Jack would be saved in the nick of time, but nevertheless it didn't stop me from loving this episode. I don't know what I enjoyed more the return of Daniel or the J/D moments....


Mandeep

zats
June 30th, 2005, 11:25 AM
<snippage>

and of course baal is in it :D :p
Ba'al makes everything better! :D

Stricken
September 8th, 2005, 06:09 AM
Great Daniel Jack scenes and with a drop of Baal what more can you want??

Perriman33
September 21st, 2005, 06:52 AM
I think jack was really well acted in this episode you could almost feel he was at the limit of what he could take from Ba'al. And his little chat's with daniel were great.
And even thiough Ba'al was torturing jack he still did it with style you've got to admire him for that.He's got to be my favourite goa'uld. Although his guards looked like the village people on a night out! :D
It was a good one for people missing daniel and a great episode for me because I like jack when he's on form with his quotes! :)

Metarock Sam
September 24th, 2005, 01:38 PM
Yay the return of Daniel. This episode was one of most awaited as I personally think Daniel is in the core of Stargate and without him it doesnt work as well. Baals spinning prison was great aswell as the cool conversations between Jack and Daniel.

cafine_us
October 2nd, 2005, 09:22 AM
I don't think Daniel is the core of Stargate. I think each of the four original team members brought their own perspective to the show, and without any of the them it doesn't work as well, whether it was Daniel in season six or Jack now in season nine. That said, it is just a tv show, so I don't think anyone would hold it against them for making the personal decision to leave.

Chaka's_Mum
October 3rd, 2005, 03:37 AM
I think jack was really well acted in this episode you could almost feel he was at the limit of what he could take from Ba'al. And his little chat's with daniel were great

The best bit about Jack's response to his plight was the sheer understatement of it. The quiet desperation had so much more impact than histrionics or endless blubbing would have done. As you said - you could practically feel Jack's being at the end of his tether.

Yet another magnificent performance from RDA.


And even thiough Ba'al was torturing jack he still did it with style you've got to admire him for that.He's got to be my favourite goa'uld

Yes indeed. Mine too. He may be as evil as they come, but he's definitely got the style to carry it off with aplomb.


Although his guards looked like the village people on a night out!

:D :D :D

Rune
October 7th, 2005, 09:46 AM
The best bit about Jack's response to his plight was the sheer understatement of it. The quite desperation had so much more impact than histrionics or endless blubbing would have done. As you said - you could practically feel Jack's being at the end of his tether.

Yet another magnificent performance from RDA.


What more can I say, I love this episode and just for the very reason you've summed up so beautifully.

jckfan55
October 7th, 2005, 11:24 AM
Yes, I think RDA is often underestimated.

plaw15
October 7th, 2005, 03:14 PM
I loved this episode. The probally could have made it a 2 parter and should us more stuff.

walter_MacChevron
October 31st, 2005, 08:13 PM
I loved this episode and I am glad they showed Daniel and htey mentioned the torture Jack endured while in the army

James_the_Wraith_Sympathiser
January 4th, 2006, 04:51 AM
I can't think of a more appropriate term than to say this was a beautiful episode, in 2 regards -

- The direction, scenes, dialogue were amazing...Jacks' 'Thats where you're wrong!!' outburst, hell that whole scene, was completely moving as far as I'm concerned...

- The differences between Jack/Daniel friendship now that Daniel is ascended, and the extreme nature of Jacks' situation, really make it seem like Daniel is torn in 2 over helping a close friend and abiding by the rules of the life that he has chosen. Their friendship was excellently portrayed here.

Also, those piano notes that play at times throughout the episode...I dare anyone to hear that and not feel sorry for Jack being tortured....and as for Ba'al...what can I say, perfect villian, perfectly acted by Cliff Simon....

I'll stop ranting there, and perhaps go watch it again!

timdalton007
January 18th, 2006, 11:38 AM
One of the best episodes of the entire series! The acting is among the best of the series. RDA's performance is his best since The Fifth Race. Cliff Simon is at his best as Ba'al. It's great to see MS in this episode with one of his all-time best performances. The conversations between O'neill and Jackson are incredibly well written.

The scenes on Earth don't lack far behind. Corin Nuemec finally brings the character of Jonas into full focus. AT, CJ, and Davis do well in this episode.

The production values, the writing, the music and everything else works very very well!

A must see episode!

timdalton007

AKnightWhoSaysNi
January 18th, 2006, 03:11 PM
I got really emotional when jack was telling Daneil to end it, also I felt Jacks frustration when he told Daniel if things were reversed he would smash the whole place up and kill baal, when daniel said the others would stop them and Jack says "theyd have a hell of a fight on their hands". A really great episode.

Thor of The Asgard
January 19th, 2006, 07:51 AM
this was a high level episode...they really brought the acting up a few levels...congrats to the pruducers....

RiderMayBail
March 9th, 2006, 04:59 AM
Recently while rewatching the series, I finally noticed how goo dthe acting actually was in this episode. I've always kind of liked the episode, Ba'al can be quite entertaining for a goa'uld, but the acting between Daniel and Jack is superb, and having noticed that, has moved this episode right up there among my faves.

skeezix
March 10th, 2006, 12:09 AM
Hot damn this was a good episode. Guest appearance by Daniel, Jack being put through the ringer big time. Jack's outfit looked goofy though. However, I'm glad they left the same clothes on him the entire episode, the bloodstains and the holes added to the effect. Ba'al is one mean sob, I can't decide what would be worse, the acid or the knives. Great character interaction for Jack and Daniel here. That Tok'ra guy can shove it, I hope he gets staff'd later in the season. Bring back Freya dammit, she would have wanted to get Jack back. >_>

Zoser
March 10th, 2006, 08:36 AM
Hot damn this was a good episode. Guest appearance by Daniel, Jack being put through the ringer big time. Jack's outfit looked goofy though. However, I'm glad they left the same clothes on him the entire episode, the bloodstains and the holes added to the effect. Ba'al is one mean sob, I can't decide what would be worse, the acid or the knives. Great character interaction for Jack and Daniel here. That Tok'ra guy can shove it, I hope he gets staff'd later in the season. Bring back Freya dammit, she would have wanted to get Jack back. >_>

Great story and excellent acting - Abyss is one of the best.

Pharaoh Atem
March 26th, 2006, 03:39 PM
jack poor guy getting killed over and over and a great daniel epsiode

trying to help a friend

Mickey23
April 3rd, 2006, 10:35 AM
I have just been rewatching Season 6. I haven't seen some of these in a while. I forgot just how much I love Abyss. For all of the reasons many of you have posted! There is just something so wonderful about how Jack and Daniel interact with each other (thanks, I'm sure, to RDA's and MS's acting skills). They seem to be such great friends who will be there for each other, no matter what the situation. When Jack yells at Daniel, and Daniel just takes it cuz he knows his friend really needs him there. The O'Neill/Jackson interaction is much of the reason I was drawn into Stargate! It is the one thing I really miss.

n3votic
April 23rd, 2006, 11:51 AM
Jack: "You're wrong about that too..." (Daniel looks at him, narrows his eyes inquisitively.) "I have another choice." (Daniel closes his eyes and shakes his head.)

Daniel: "What are you talking about?" (Jack looks at him, like" you know." Daniel shakes his head). "No."

Jack: "Any minute, they're gonna come. Ba'al is gonna kill me again. You can make it the last time."

Daniel: "Don't ask me to do that..."

Jack: "You can put an end to it..."

Daniel: "I won't do it..."


What's Jack asking Daniel to do? I thought Daniel couldn't interfere, maybe someone could explain this to me :o

Pharaoh Atem
April 23rd, 2006, 11:52 AM
i think jack wanted Daniel to kill him permanently thats why i understood it

the fifth man
April 23rd, 2006, 11:55 AM
i think jack wanted Daniel to kill him permanently thats why i understood it

I think that is it too. I'm just not sure if Daniel could have or not without breaking the "rules" of Ascension.

Eye Of Ra
April 23rd, 2006, 12:11 PM
yeah he wanted daniel to kill him

pRyvvik
April 23rd, 2006, 12:18 PM
I dont' think he was implying daniel should kill him, I think he was implying daniel should free him.

Jumper One
April 23rd, 2006, 12:25 PM
I dont' think he was implying daniel should kill him, I think he was implying daniel should free him.

Why would he refuse to do it then? He was already willing to break the rules by helping him ascend, why would he not be willing to break the rules to free him? :daniel:

Anyway, I always assumed that he was implying to kill him.

ideadman
April 23rd, 2006, 01:41 PM
I also believe he was asking for help to escape.

As for why would he not help when he is already going to help him ascend...I think the ancients would have a much bigger problem with Daniel killing him then helping him ascend.

Earthwind
April 23rd, 2006, 03:51 PM
I didn't understand that scene at all, I thought I did.:(

cafine_us
April 23rd, 2006, 05:32 PM
Why would he refuse to do it then? He was already willing to break the rules by helping him ascend, why would he not be willing to break the rules to free him? :daniel:

Anyway, I always assumed that he was implying to kill him.
I think there's a difference between helping someone ascend and interfering in any other way. Oma's punishment for ascending people doesn't seem nearly as harsh as the punishments for those who interfered in other ways.

I definitely though Jack wanted Daniel to kill him. The way Daniel responded seemed so much more adamant and even fearful than his response to ordinary interference.

captain jake
April 23rd, 2006, 05:35 PM
I agree with jumper on this one.

Chelle DB
May 4th, 2006, 09:24 PM
I didn't like this episode very much - too slow! Although I did enjoy watching Cliff Simon (Baal) - I think he's kinda cute! Well that's what I think anyway! Have a nice day!!:D

Darkstar
May 5th, 2006, 05:40 AM
This was a great episode for me, it shows off a side of Jack that we rarely get to see, to give up under the circumstances seemed ideal, the fact that Daniel could't help was annoying but its nice to have somebody there for you when you are down and out.

captain jake
May 5th, 2006, 03:55 PM
True if it was O'Neill in jacks shoes I can't help but think he would have done anything to help.

EmmaPeel
May 25th, 2006, 02:44 PM
Why would he refuse to do it then? He was already willing to break the rules by helping him ascend, why would he not be willing to break the rules to free him? :daniel:

Anyway, I always assumed that he was implying to kill him.

I took that scene to mean that Jack was asking Daniel to make sure that he stayed dead after Ba'al killed him – as in Daniel using his ascended powers to destroy the sarcophagus so he couldn't be revived. That way, Daniel wouldn't have to deal with the guilt of actually "killing" Jack.

Matt H
June 27th, 2006, 06:03 PM
um...this is one of the sweetest episodes of SG-1 to date. I love the tension between Daniel and Jack. In Meridian I nearly cried, and in this episode i felt nearly the same way.

Matt H

Lt. Gnatty-Bug
August 1st, 2006, 08:19 PM
This is definately one of my top five episodes. The tension and relationship between Jack and Daniel is just beautiful (hey, I'm a slasher, what can I say?)

Moving onto more of the episode and the most current topic. I thought it slightly out of character that Jack wanted to die - Jack's a fighter and we know that, but then if you're being killed and revived multiple times it's kinda hard. "I am prepared to give my life in their defense" (from article one of the Code of Conduct), and Jack did, but the level of desperation seemed so much greater, and we know from other episodes that Jack at some point was in special ops and probably had been captured at some point, so I just didn't really understand why this specific time pushed so much harder...

jazz!
August 9th, 2006, 01:26 PM
This was a great episode for me, it shows off a side of Jack that we rarely get to see, to give up under the circumstances seemed ideal, the fact that Daniel could't help was annoying but its nice to have somebody there for you when you are down and out.

In fact, I think Jack held out for a very long time and showed he wouldn't give up even after a 1000 deaths.

Personally, I think it is in Tangent where Jack, very uncharacteristically, "gives up" - and I hated it.



You know, I've already done that…freezing to death thing, and it's just not as enjoyable as it sounds. So, if we just consider there's no chance…

I understand that they were in space - but he's encountered worse situations ...
therefore, imo, in Abyss he showed great resolve - Really good RDA ep

Admiral Mappalazarou
August 9th, 2006, 05:13 PM
I'm watching Abyss right now - AWESOME. Show's a new side to O'neill when he's under pressure and worried about the torture.

scifi_girl
August 17th, 2006, 11:09 AM
this episode is great.

saberhagen83
August 20th, 2006, 01:27 AM
A really good episode. It really shows another side to Jack, and the interaction with Daniel was great to watch.

Callista
January 29th, 2007, 07:12 PM
Man, I absolutely love this episode!

I've seen it I don't know how many times and it still makes me tear up at the end.

Great acting by all, beautiful music, I LOVE the cell with the shifting gravity, wonderful dialogue between Jack and Daniel and the simple effect of MS hiding behind the camera and then just stepping in when it moves is so much more effective than if they had shown him appearing and disappearing. Sometimes less is more. Baal is at his best in this episode. I still like him in season 10, but at this point in the series, I think he was the most effective and scary/creepy of all their villains because he is just so cruel without being flamboyant and over-the-top.

Chaka's_Mum
January 29th, 2007, 10:41 PM
So true about Ba'al. The way that he is so matter-of-fact about doing the most horrible things, coupled with an almost understated arrogance. No curled lip, snarling or any of that 'I Am A Bad Guy' nonsense. That in itself makes him one of the best Goa'uld around for sheer evil-ness.

Without a doubt. Ba'al rocks. He may not be a god, but he's a god.

Okay, that doesn't make grammatical sense, but other Ba'al worshippers will know what I mean!

The Great Lord Baal
February 7th, 2007, 12:15 PM
Baals best episode and my favourite episode
Its on tomorrow on sky 1 for anyone interested

LadyWolfie
February 7th, 2007, 01:11 PM
Baals best episode and my favourite episode
Its on tomorrow on sky 1 for anyone interested

yeah, it's on three times Thursday 15:00 and 00:00 and friday 18:00
and because it's an episode i actually want to watch, i bet there will be something to stop me all three times! Grrrrr

garhkal
March 6th, 2007, 03:08 AM
Yeah, Ba'al's Weird gravty priosns/torture chambers really make the episode stand out.

I wonder if that was a piece of tech Ba'al made himself, or something that he found..


I thought it was interesting how Jack could see her, and Daniel couldn't, and Daniel at the time was 'all powerful' and such, but maybe it was just in Jack's head or something.. Or maybe it was just simple, she left before Daniel could see her, haha..

Maybe she was part of jacks Symbiot's subconsiousness/memory..


I also think Abyss could have benefitted from a darker, more abrasive set design. Don't get me wrong-- the "torture chamber" looked great. The holding cell was a little bland and non-threatening outside of the whole gravity thing, though, I thought. The facility could have just as likely been a Goa'uld health spa. A more menacing set would have made O'Neill's plight as much a visual hell as it was a mental one.


I wish we could have possibily seen or heard other totures going on in the backround.. so we could keep that 'darkness/abrasive' feeling up.


Originally Posted by Noo ani Anqueetus
Abyss is quite possibly my favorite episode in season 6. There were so many great moments between Daniel and Jack. For all those who didn't like that Daniel wouldn't help, I got the impression that more than anything he wanted to blow up the walls, and strike all the jaffa with lightning bolts. But he knew that the "others" were watching him..."They're ALWAYS watching..."

Yup, and since he had just got there, he might not have been willing to 'try to rock the boat' Though i do feel it might have been a little better had they shown him 'influencing the dreams of lord Yu to go attack that planet..


What bugs me about this episode isn't in this episode, it's in the lack of follow up to it. O'Neill is brutally tortured. For a long time. HE comes very close to breaking; he admits that.

Yet next week, and the week after, and the week after that, it's business as usual. No counseling, no nightmares, no post-traumatic stress, no recovery time of any kind. No lingering issues of any kind, either. It bugs me.

That is one of the few bad mouths i have to wards ALL seasons of SG1. We have seen carter and jack stranded and almost killed (solitudes) with nary a visit to a quack for evaluation. Daniel turned evil TWICE, with nary a reminicent of any other emotions towards him from others.. (need and Ab power) and many other cases where there SHOULD be some recovery, nightmares or other issues.. But the powers that be leave that be.

LadyWolfie
March 6th, 2007, 09:21 AM
That is one of the few bad mouths i have to wards ALL seasons of SG1. We have seen carter and jack stranded and almost killed (solitudes) with nary a visit to a quack for evaluation. Daniel turned evil TWICE, with nary a reminicent of any other emotions towards him from others.. (need and Ab power) and many other cases where there SHOULD be some recovery, nightmares or other issues.. But the powers that be leave that be.

oh that would be boring! of course i see what you mean but i'm of the Get-back-to-the-guns-and-aliens! school of thought, i don't need to see the characters recovering i watch to see them fighting! They are military they are trained for this and we have seen a handful of recovery scenes, why the episode Fallen is all about Daniel recovering from well... falling! thats enough for me :D

for the record in Need, Jack helps Daniel out when he goes crazy and wrecks a store room and Ab power is all a dream!

Two_L's
April 20th, 2007, 06:33 AM
This episode was amazing! I love that Stargate doesn't shy away from showing the strong relationship between Jack and Daniel because I find that in a lot of tv shows and films, that you don't often see that emotional side of a friendship between two guys. It's great that they explore that because its really beautiful to see. :D Brought a tear to my eye :(

The gravity prison setup was very cool indeed as were the torture scenes, and the acting from RDA and Michael Shanks was excellent!

I know some people think it was wrong that Daniel didn't seem to help Jack, but I think he did. I saw Daniel's position as kinda being similar to Urgo. Urgo wasn't supposed to interact with SG1 or make them do anything they didn't want to, he was only allowed to suggest things or influence their thoughts. When Teal'c is in a state of Kelnoreem, he suddenly opens his eyes as though he's thought of an idea that could help O'Neill and something similar happens to Carter. Later, O'Neill says something to Daniel about him leaving, and he replies that he "had some things he had to do". I think that while he couldn't do anything physically to rescue Jack without breaking the ascension rules, he put ideas into Teal'c, Carter and Jonas' minds so that they could figure it out. When O'Neill says thankyou at the end it seemed to be directed at Daniel, so I think Jack knew that he had something to with his escape. At least that's the way I saw it ;)

garhkal
April 20th, 2007, 08:47 AM
Yes it does, and later on at the beginning of the ep where they search for the Eye of ra, all of them are quick to believe jack when he says he was visited by daniel...

JoNzA
June 30th, 2007, 01:39 PM
Great ep :D
one of baals best episodes :)

cavalierlwt
September 3rd, 2007, 08:12 PM
Great episode, really made me finally say to hell with the Tokra. They may be paddling in the same direction, but they are *not* allies. They are every bit as arrogant as the Go'uld and simply look down on humans, makes it especially ironic that they are immediately angered if they sense any human's (real or imagined) distaste for the idea of blending a host and symbiote.

First
September 30th, 2007, 09:52 PM
This ep really brought back the fear of being captured by a gouald. To be tortured to death in a most painful manner, only to be revived to do it again and again! Knowing that you have no chance of rescue. At the time nobody even knew where Jack was. It's the ultimate fate worse than death (fate worse than deaths?) It would be hard to resist telling Baal what he wants to know "Just let me die!"

First
September 30th, 2007, 09:59 PM
At the time we didn't understand Daniel's lack of intervention, but later we learn:
In Full Circle, Daniel tries to stop Anubis, but is stopped by the others, then decended as punishment. In Abyss, Daniel could not have actively interfered no matter how much he wanted to. The others would have countered any action he took. The most Daniel could get away with was appearing as a vision, if only to keep Jacks spirit up

garhkal
October 1st, 2007, 01:32 PM
This ep really brought back the fear of being captured by a gouald. To be tortured to death in a most painful manner, only to be revived to do it again and again! Knowing that you have no chance of rescue. At the time nobody even knew where Jack was. It's the ultimate fate worse than death (fate worse than deaths?) It would be hard to resist telling Baal what he wants to know "Just let me die!"

Agreed. Though i wonder why it took so long for someone to get captured and tortured this baddly to show us it is a bad idea... Also anyone know what happened to that girl jack came back for?

Grotto
March 19th, 2008, 02:52 PM
I don't know if others noted, but one of the times Jack was being put in the gravity cell, The sensors which detect which way the gravity direction is going is not perfectly down, yet a few seconds later while talking to Daniel, it is corrected.
g

captain jake
July 4th, 2008, 07:28 PM
The Tok'ra are up to it again, I can't believe that they didn't assist in the retrieval of O'Neill. I do wonder for how long Colonel O'Neill was conscious after the blending. He tells Baal that he didn't know what was going on, but then we establish that it was his character that forced Kanan to return to the planet. I think it would have been interesting to see if there was a relationship between Jack and Kanan.


I don't know if others noted, but one of the times Jack was being put in the gravity cell, The sensors which detect which way the gravity direction is going is not perfectly down, yet a few seconds later while talking to Daniel, it is corrected.
g

I did notice that, it was nothing more than a small prop error.

Hornet
November 1st, 2008, 09:52 AM
Its beginning to annoys me how they seems to always leave the ending to our imagination

Whatever happened to all the action we use to see in earlier season about how they shoot their way back to the stargate. In this episode, all we know is the base was attacked, but we didn't even get to know the idea of how Jack could escape the base, and go back to the stargate, with all the guards moving about out there.

All throughout the show, I was really wondering how Jack would escape, what would he do. And the ending disappoints me, we didn't get to see any of that.

Shol'va16
November 4th, 2008, 03:54 AM
what is the music in this episode . . .. i just love it . . if anyone knows please can they tell me . . it goes like this . . . na . .na . . na na na . . . na na . . .na na na . . . na na . .na na . . . .does that help?

Arctic Goddess
November 4th, 2008, 05:59 AM
what is the music in this episode . . .. i just love it . . if anyone knows please can they tell me . . it goes like this . . . na . .na . . na na na . . . na na . . .na na na . . . na na . .na na . . . .does that help?

Joel Goldsmith does the music in Star Gate. Maybe if you check his site?

leiasky
November 4th, 2008, 10:06 AM
yeah, I was disapointed in the ending but they spent so much time on torturing Jack that they ran out of time to show the actual escape. It was a good episode, regardless.

SheilaJane47
November 5th, 2008, 02:51 PM
yeah, I was disapointed in the ending but they spent so much time on torturing Jack that they ran out of time to show the actual escape. It was a good episode, regardless.

I, too, would have liked to see a bit more of the aftermath... I feel like this episode deserved a bit more recognition in the rest of the series. In fact, one of my only quams with SG-1 is that they will put out a super-intense episode, and then never really show too much resolution to that intensity, and then the next episode will be light and fluffy again... Actually, this one had a little bit more resolution with Daniel at the end telling Jack that he'd be ok. But, still, I would have liked to, I don't know... maybe see the reaction of SG-1 when Jack first made it back through the gate... or have a little bit of a reference to his recovery somewhere... but that just happens to be how I feel about it :D

leiasky
November 5th, 2008, 03:28 PM
I would have LOVED seeing him as a Tokra. Being an unwilling host and all that. Wonder how RDA would have handled acting the two different parts. God I would have loved to see that.

Arctic Goddess
November 5th, 2008, 04:12 PM
I would have LOVED seeing him as a Tokra. Being an unwilling host and all that. Wonder how RDA would have handled acting the two different parts. God I would have loved to see that.

It's possible that the writers either didn't think to create an episode like that, or couldn't come up with a viable story. In either case, I too would have enjoyed that kind of episode.

SheilaJane47
November 5th, 2008, 05:13 PM
It's possible that the writers either didn't think to create an episode like that, or couldn't come up with a viable story. In either case, I too would have enjoyed that kind of episode.

I think that the actual circumstances were that RDA cut back on his work time to spend time with Wylie, so they needed a reason to cut back his screen time. Abyss was an ep that was very RDA centric, but didn't require any of the rest of SG-1, so they could film Nightwalkers and Abyss simultaneously and RDA had a whole ep that he didn't have to be in.

But that would have been a great story!

leiasky
November 5th, 2008, 05:33 PM
Oh, I know that RDA cut back his time but that was a story I would have loved to see!

SheilaJane47
November 5th, 2008, 05:34 PM
Oh, I know that RDA cut back his time but that was a story I would have loved to see!
Oh, definitely! That would have been a great episode! :D

Arctic Goddess
November 5th, 2008, 06:54 PM
I think that the actual circumstances were that RDA cut back on his work time to spend time with Wylie, so they needed a reason to cut back his screen time. Abyss was an ep that was very RDA centric, but didn't require any of the rest of SG-1, so they could film Nightwalkers and Abyss simultaneously and RDA had a whole ep that he didn't have to be in.

But that would have been a great story!

You're saying that he cut back his time way back in season 6? It was my understanding that didn't happen until season 8.

jelgate
November 5th, 2008, 07:05 PM
You're saying that he cut back his time way back in season 6? It was my understanding that didn't happen until season 8.It started in S6 its just not as obvious until S8.

Arctic Goddess
November 5th, 2008, 07:41 PM
It started in S6 its just not as obvious until S8.

Pity. I know that Cliff Simon enjoyed working with him. I loved their interaction in the different episodes. I could have watched much more of that.

leiasky
November 5th, 2008, 07:55 PM
Oh yeah, Jack mocking Ba'al are some of my more favorite sarcastic Jack moments. It's good to know Cliff enjoyed working with RDA.

jelgate
November 5th, 2008, 08:04 PM
Pity. I know that Cliff Simon enjoyed working with him. I loved their interaction in the different episodes. I could have watched much more of that.I think when two actors are enjoy each other (or hate each other) it shows in their acting

SheilaJane47
November 5th, 2008, 09:18 PM
You're saying that he cut back his time way back in season 6? It was my understanding that didn't happen until season 8.

No, actually, he started the cut back in season six, then took a bit more time off in season seven, and then really cut back in season 8. They explain it in the audio commentary for... Frozen, I think? Or, maybe they mention it in passing during "Enemy Mine" or "Fragile Balance" (both season seven). I do remember them mentioning that season five was RDA's last season full time.

Butlersgate
March 14th, 2009, 08:30 AM
probably one of my favorite episodes of season 6

Arctic Goddess
March 15th, 2009, 12:12 AM
My most favorite Ba'al episode ever!!!

Commander Aegir
March 19th, 2009, 02:17 PM
Baal is just the best in this episode. Soooo cool and calm about torturing jack. The relationship between jack and daniel is also really good. The ways in which their views differ.

Dinoman
March 22nd, 2009, 07:21 AM
I guess Daniel must had something to do with the rescue plan that Teal'c and Carter were came up with. Even he was ascended and could not interfere directly with what's happening he still came to comfort Jack and let him knew he was not alone. Great acting of RDA and MS!

Anda
March 22nd, 2009, 07:24 AM
I love this episode.It is my season favorite after Full Circle.

The Stig
May 11th, 2009, 11:06 PM
This is the greatest episode apart from Lost City. I absolutely loved it.

balo
May 12th, 2009, 07:55 AM
This is definetely the highlight of season 6 !

The Jack/Daniel scenes were really great, and we see Ba'al in one of his best episodes .

It could have been perfect, but the ending was disapointing.
What happened after Jack escaped ??

Rating : 8 / 10

leiasky
May 12th, 2009, 08:59 AM
Yeah, that was the only thing I didn't like about the episode. The end was a bit too abrupt and I'd have liked to see a reunion with the team.

vzzzzzbx
May 28th, 2009, 02:21 AM
Ba'al is one cool bad guy. They should make those gravity shifting cells standard in all real-life prisons :D. I agree the ending was too abrupt though, slightly spoiled a very good episode.

UngoauldedUnas
August 31st, 2009, 11:21 AM
What bugs me about this episode isn't in this episode, it's in the lack of follow up to it. O'Neill is brutally tortured. For a long time. HE comes very close to breaking; he admits that.

Yet next week, and the week after, and the week after that, it's business as usual. No counseling, no nightmares, no post-traumatic stress, no recovery time of any kind. No lingering issues of any kind, either. It bugs me. Especially when Daniel shows up again in season seven. Daniel is Jack's best friend. Daniel had the power to break him out and stop the torture. Daniel didn't. And Jack has no issues with this? We as viewers know that Daniel couldn't have done anything; Jack, in the middle of things and not seeing what Daneil sees, can't know that. And even if he did, I'd still expect at least some kind of issues; issues like that are rarely rational.. But there's nothing.

I love this episode, but yes, the lack of closure at the end is kind of bothersome. However, that's where fanfiction can help. lol ;)

I had always thought that the woman/lotar appearing to Jack was just a hallucination. But after watching it again this past weekend, I realized that it's gotta be an actual memory left over from Kanan after he took Jack as a host. She keeps saying the same things over and over, plus she's not really responding to what Jack is saying back to her. This is what tells me it's Kanan's memory of what she said when Kanan (in Jack's body) came to rescue her.

leiasky
August 31st, 2009, 11:33 AM
Yeah, I wish we could have seen some recovery on Jack's part after the events of Abyss. So much potential for angst and character moments weren't touched on. It could very well have been a two part episode.

UngoauldedUnas
August 31st, 2009, 01:41 PM
Yeah, I wish we could have seen some recovery on Jack's part after the events of Abyss. So much potential for angst and character moments weren't touched on. It could very well have been a two part episode.

Heh. Yeah. It could have easily made a better ep than some of the clunkers in s6.

amconway
September 13th, 2009, 09:07 AM
Originally Posted by leiasky
Yeah, I wish we could have seen some recovery on Jack's part after the events of Abyss. So much potential for angst and character moments weren't touched on. It could very well have been a two part episode.

Personally, I thought it was done exactly as it should have been. Heavy angst and H/C is my least favorite type of fanfic, and I liked it that the show tread lightly there. One of the things that I liked most about SG-1 was that it had what I saw as a perfect balance of drama/humor, character/action. It was an adventure show at it's heart, not a drama. There are elements of characterization that I would have liked to have seen explored more, but delving further into emotional trauma isn't one of them.

Alan Wake
September 13th, 2009, 09:22 AM
How did jack get through back to earth without the the device to open the iris?

Did they land and pick him up? or what?

JadedWraith
September 13th, 2009, 09:41 AM
Personally, I thought it was done exactly as it should have been. Heavy angst and H/C is my least favorite type of fanfic, and I liked it that the show tread lightly there. One of the things that I liked most about SG-1 was that it had what I saw as a perfect balance of drama/humor, character/action. It was an adventure show at it's heart, not a drama. There are elements of characterization that I would have liked to have seen explored more, but delving further into emotional trauma isn't one of them.

Agreed. Some issues are better not be explored. The very essence of Jack is a ton of hurt hidden behind snark. How I miss him! I have to rewatch this episode.

Crazedwraith
September 13th, 2009, 09:48 AM
How did jack get through back to earth without the the device to open the iris?

Did they land and pick him up? or what?

He probably headed to the Alpha Site to be checked out.

leiasky
September 14th, 2009, 07:47 AM
Personally, I thought it was done exactly as it should have been. Heavy angst and H/C is my least favorite type of fanfic, and I liked it that the show tread lightly there. One of the things that I liked most about SG-1 was that it had what I saw as a perfect balance of drama/humor, character/action. It was an adventure show at it's heart, not a drama. There are elements of characterization that I would have liked to have seen explored more, but delving further into emotional trauma isn't one of them.


Different strokes for different folks, so the saying goes.

Jack appearing just fine and dandy in the next episode after suffering terrible torture was a mite too unbelievable to me.

Though, yes, the show is an adventure show and its focus wasn't as much on the character drama. For the most part, they balanced it all very well. Up until season 9, but that's a discussion for another thread.

amconway
September 14th, 2009, 08:20 AM
Jack appearing just fine and dandy in the next episode after suffering terrible torture was a mite too unbelievable to me.

Weeks could have passed. The only thing set in the timeline is that each season takes place in a year. If some events happen closer together in time, which is always the case in two-parters, and sometimes implied in other episodes, that allows quite a bit of elapsed time between others. For example, I'm cetain that Daniel didn't sleep with Kiera a couple of weeks after his wife died.

FreeStyLA
September 20th, 2009, 07:11 AM
Weeks could have passed. The only thing set in the timeline is that each season takes place in a year. If some events happen closer together in time, which is always the case in two-parters, and sometimes implied in other episodes, that allows quite a bit of elapsed time between others. For example, I'm cetain that Daniel didn't sleep with Kiera a couple of weeks after his wife died.


Elaborating on your explanation

There are also events that happen that aren't actually depicted in episodes. One example I clearly remember was the situation related to the Enkarans in season 4 "Scorched Earth"... where they talked a little bit about how SG-1 (correct me if I'm wrong) had been searching for other suitable planets (or something like that)... but they never actually showed that in any prior episode.

Another example is when Jonas Quinn becomes part of the team... Carter tells him how many replacement members they've gone through thus far... but they've only shown the one guy at the very start of the episode.

So... it can be inferred that everything related to the torture was solved prior to the next episode - maybe a bit of rest and relaxation.

leiasky
September 20th, 2009, 08:08 AM
Elaborating on your explanation

There are also events that happen that aren't actually depicted in episodes. One example I clearly remember was the situation related to the Enkarans in season 4 "Scorched Earth"... where they talked a little bit about how SG-1 (correct me if I'm wrong) had been searching for other suitable planets (or something like that)... but they never actually showed that in any prior episode.

Another example is when Jonas Quinn becomes part of the team... Carter tells him how many replacement members they've gone through thus far... but they've only shown the one guy at the very start of the episode.

So... it can be inferred that everything related to the torture was solved prior to the next episode - maybe a bit of rest and relaxation.


The above illustrates pretty perfectly that they didn't even mention the torture, or Jack recovering from it, again . . . which is what's unbelievable to me.

It's easily explained away, though as SG-1 was an episode of the week kind of show with a few large topics carrying through seasons or multiple episodes. It wasn't character driven as much as I'd have liked. . . SGU is supposed to fix this, and that makes me sad that we didn't get more of what SGU is supposed to be with SG-1. :(

Alan Wake
September 20th, 2009, 10:29 AM
I loved this episode, still one of my favorites... I only wish they would have brought up jack having a symbiote in him more often.

I think after this episode, they only mention it like once, and that's it. It's like the whole episode never happened.

leiasky
September 21st, 2009, 07:44 AM
I would have loved to have seen one of them possessed by a Goa'uld for a few weeks or months. I would have loved to see the rest of the team 's determination to get that person back and the rehibilitation of the person who had been posessed, instead of just glossing over it next episode. Unfortunately, that didn't happen and never will since the SG-1 days are over save for another movie. And that is a plotline better served for an episodic show.

flipper_gv
November 18th, 2009, 07:26 PM
my all time favorite sg-1 episode. Everything about it is perfect: the emotion, the visual (camera angles and gravity shift is superbly done), the tension, baa'l, etc...

every thing about it is perfect.

hollowpoint
November 25th, 2009, 11:51 AM
amazing episode,one of my favourites..especially the scenes with ball and oniell, and oniell and jackson.

rushy
November 25th, 2009, 12:28 PM
This is SO weird.In the last episode I missed Daniel and Jack and now here they both are although Daniel still remained Ascended and didn't return.

polomare
January 2nd, 2010, 05:31 PM
I loved everything about this episode. And I just knew I was going to love it in the first 60 seconds of watching it.

I loved the mysterious, brief glimpse of Goa-ulded Jack, the torture scenes were first rate, Ba-aal was awesome as a villain (Bocce, anyone? Hahaha!), the shipper in me loved that the girl Jack's Tok'ra fell in love with has a passing resemblance to Carter (though I know that predates his blending w/Jack, but still), and I like that it was suggested that it was Jack's human personality trait of never leaving a team member behind that actually rubbed off on Kanaan and that was what convinced him he had to go back (so . . . if he had never blended with Jack, he never would have bothered to go back for her???? Yeah, Tok'ra just lost respect in my eyes right there) The magneto-gravo cells were a cool idea and of course we got to see Daniel!!!

Does anyone out there know . . . ? I don't remember when this ep first aired, did they admit in the promos that MS was making a guest appearance? Or did they just spring it on people? I think the latter would have been better for the affect it would have on the audience. But the studio may not have been able to resist the sound byte in a promo. Anybody know where I can find the commercial for this ep?

Skydiver
January 2nd, 2010, 06:20 PM
MS presence was massively, massively promoted, iirc

polomare
January 2nd, 2010, 06:28 PM
MS presence was massively, massively promoted, iirc

Hmm . . . I don't remember that.
But, I believe you :)

I remember it was spoiled for me. I missed it the first time it aired and somebody told me he was in it, so I already knew I was going to see him when I did watch the ep (but I remember wondering if it was going to be a clip show and not "new" MS)

I'd still love to see the promo for this ep if anyone has it!!!!

es!
January 3rd, 2010, 04:47 AM
I liked this ep a lot, especially that "we don't leave anybody behind" part.
However Jack's face looked extremely fat when he was pressed against that grid :eek:

no I'm not stalking you, polo

stargatelover4ever
January 3rd, 2010, 05:36 AM
when season 5 finished I was really dissapointed because Daniel died. I watched the beginning of season 6 only hoping that Daniel will come back somehow. After a few episodes I gave up because I just couldn't resist to see how Jonas was replacing Daniel. some time after that I saw a commercial for Abyss and there's was that scene when Daniel says "I leave and look at the mess you got yourself into" (or something like that:P) and I was like :jack_new_anime05:omg..he's back *dancing*
and so I waited for that episode and I was thrilled to see Daniel again. Of course after that I found out that he's coming back in season 7 so I continued watching season 6 (even though, as I said,I didn;t really like Jonas at the time) and with the arrival of season 7, my "appetite" for Stargate came back too :)
now..about "Abyss"..it seems to me that in this episode Daniel starts to accept that he's being replaced by Jonas (of course Jack takes care to tell Daniel that Joans is a smart guy.lol). I really liked the fact that Daniel came to save Jack's soul, even though Jack is not the kind of guy concerned about his after-life (and Daniel knew that).Their friendship reaches the highest level (from my point of view of course) and you can really see they care a lot about each other despite their little argues (which, in my oppinion, just make the friendship stronger:D)
And of course,I can't forget to mention the rest of the team which did everything they could (were even ready to sacrifice their lives) to reach Jack and save him.
For all this and for some many other reasons I really enjoyed Abyss:)

polomare
January 3rd, 2010, 04:54 PM
es: Stalk-O-Meter is BEEPING!!!

stargatelover: I think the quote is:
(Jack to Ascended Daniel)
"You know that Jonas, he's at least as smart as you!"

Yeah, made me laugh. :jack: Good stuff :daniel:

stargatelover4ever
January 15th, 2010, 10:40 AM
es: Stalk-O-Meter is BEEPING!!!

stargatelover: I think the quote is:
(Jack to Ascended Daniel)
"You know that Jonas, he's at least as smart as you!"

Yeah, made me laugh. :jack: Good stuff :daniel:

yes that's the quote. gotta rewatch Abyss as soon as I can;) just to refresh my memory :D

mrscopterdoc
March 22nd, 2010, 01:36 PM
A very good episode.

exscape
May 31st, 2010, 08:25 AM
Just rewatched this. The highlight of the episode IMHO was Ba'al's spine-chilling line to O'Neill, while torturing him:

"Death will only offer a temporary escape. I can revive you again and again…a thousand times if need be. Only once you have told me everything I ask, will you be allowed to die... One... last... time." (drops a knife into O'Neill)

albatross
June 3rd, 2010, 01:46 PM
I thought it was interesting how Jack could see her, and Daniel couldn't, and Daniel at the time was 'all powerful' and such, but maybe it was just in Jack's head or something.. Or maybe it was just simple, she left before Daniel could see her, haha..

Where the woman appears and says 'Is it you?' it is clearly O'Neill/Kanan's memories of what she said to him when he first returned. Obviously she had to ask 'Is it you?' because she didn't recognise the host. At the end of the ep we see her locked in a similar gravity cell, where we must assume she has spent the whole ep since being captured near the gate, so she couldn't possibly have visited him before. Ba'al wouldn't have trusted her to roam free.

polomare
June 3rd, 2010, 10:33 PM
^The impression that I got of those little "Is it you?" scenes is that she perhaps had the ability to communicate w/Jack telepathically. We know nothing of her race, so that might be a possible ability she has.
The disappearing in a whiff of smoke is what makes me think that. If Jack was remembering her, would he remember her poof away like that? Maybe yes, maybe no. But I took it to mean she was withdrawing from his mind when she realized it wasn't an appropriate time to distract him.
Just my impression.

albatross
June 6th, 2010, 07:25 AM
I don't recall any whiffs of smoke? Doesn't she just disappear when the camera turns back to Jack? My impression is that it is a fragmented memory that comes to Jack when his brain is addled by sarcophagus/pain. We witness Kanan's memory gradually returning to Jack throughout the ep - my guess is that this is just a visual representation of how this happens. As for her race, is she not human?

polomare
June 7th, 2010, 12:19 AM
Well, maybe whiff of smoke isn't the right way to describe it. But watch it again, you'll see what I mean. She swirls away.

Samantha.Majka
June 13th, 2010, 08:44 AM
Hey,
I have to tell you that I love this epsiode so much. In this episode we can see the bond between them all, between Jack and his team and Jack's story is great ( the thing with symbiont ) .. :) I really enjoyed this episode when I saw it first.

Elorendil
June 20th, 2010, 02:25 PM
One of my all-time favorite episodes of Stargate, for one reason: The introduction of the hottest bad guy to grace the screen on SG-1! :p

Seriously, though, this is an intense episode. Ba'al is awesomely evil, as always, and his methods of torture are pretty interesting. I guess he likes to be different - none of that pain stick thing for him, he prefers to be creative. I like how it shows that he is not quite as purely evil as some of the other system lords. When he uses the acid on Jack and Jack tells him the name of his Tok'ra symbiont, he stops torturing him and gives him the antidote. I think that some of the other system lords, like Sokar or Apophis, would have kept torturing him just for the fun of it. It shows that Ba'al is different from the other system lords we have seen previously and that he actually can be reasonable.

It was great to see Daniel return for the first time since ascending in this episode. I have to say, I was a little mad at him for not doing anything to help Jack, but obviously this boils back down to the silly rules that the Ascendeds have made up. Still, nice to see the ol' boy back and I think he did play in important part in helping Jack through all of the torture.

Oh, and did I mention that I love this episode for all the great shots of Ba'al? :p

Noxbait
September 12th, 2010, 02:37 PM
What a good episode! Love the team problem solving on the homefront. Love Hammond being tough as nails against the Tok'Ra dude. Love Ba'al. Oy, he is so wicked and dastardly and downright mean. Gotta give him points for creativity. But the thing I love about Ba'al is that I think he may be the only System Lord who truly doesn't believe he is a god. I think he uses that and is happy to have minions follow him as if he's a god...but I really think he knows exactly what he is. Maybe he hasn't spent as much time in the sarc as all the rest, eh? And he's just so darn good looking! oK...gotta get off the Ba'al tangent...back to the episode.

such a sad episode. What an awful experience all around for Jack! Oy...talk about worst nightmares! first, he had ended up with a "snake in his head"...then that Tok'ra dragged him into Ba'al's clutches...then Daniel couldn't just break him out...and instead offered ascension. Oh my. Not a good ride at all.

Love the interactions between Jack and Daniel. The tension...the struggle...the frustration on both of their part. So awesome to see the depth and strength of their friendship. It is such a subtle but vital part of the show and their relationship and it is cool to see the interaction...and one of the rare times that they both actually really spit it out and say what they feel and mean rather than beating around the bush.

and the ending...awwww...makes me cry. One of the all time best!

maneth
October 7th, 2010, 10:30 AM
Great ep! Loved seeing my favorite geek again, and boy does he look good without glasses... *sigh* Oh, and for a Goa'uld, Ba'al seems not too bad. A sight for sore eyes, certainly. I thought the cell with the tilted gravity field was awesome.

ChulaksPrincess
January 10th, 2011, 05:42 PM
Poor Jack; the torture he suffered at the hands of Ba'al. I don't blame him for wanting to die. I'm sure it was hard on Daniel having to watch his friend go through all that suffering, and not being allowed to help him. I'm glad Jack was rescued.

Nenyc
January 20th, 2011, 04:39 AM
Poor Jack; the torture he suffered at the hands of Ba'al. I don't blame him for wanting to die. I'm sure it was hard on Daniel having to watch his friend go through all that suffering, and not being allowed to help him. I'm glad Jack was rescued.
Completely agree. :)
But still, this is one of my top 5 episodes of SG-1. :jack_new_anime04:

Evil Clown of Apocalypse
March 12th, 2011, 12:11 PM
I really enjoyed this episode,too.But there is something I didn't understand or maybe missed while watching it.
Did symbiot make Jack go back to Ba'al place or did Jack want to rescue the slave woman himself?

dvdrts
March 12th, 2011, 01:33 PM
I really enjoyed this episode,too.But there is something I didn't understand or maybe missed while watching it.
Did symbiot make Jack go back to Ba'al place or did Jack want to rescue the slave woman himself?

the symbiont took over control of jack against his wil to go rescue the slave.

SaberBlade
March 12th, 2011, 04:00 PM
I really enjoyed this episode,too.But there is something I didn't understand or maybe missed while watching it.
Did symbiot make Jack go back to Ba'al place or did Jack want to rescue the slave woman himself?

50/50. The Symbiont took control of Jack to rescue the slave, but it did so because of Jack's firm belief in never leaving man behind.

Evil Clown of Apocalypse
March 12th, 2011, 11:52 PM
That's the part I was confused because they stated Jack's unwilligness to leave man behind but Jack seemed to have no recollection of his intention.
Thank you for the explanations :p

Seaboe Muffinchucker
December 20th, 2011, 08:43 PM
I often say that I don't rank the episodes of Stargate that I like, but this one is an exception. It is, without reservation, my favorite episode. I think the chemistry between Shanks and RDA is terrific, the acting of the two is superb and the episode itself has some tremendous dialog. Jack's shout "That's where you're wrong!" sends shivers down my spine.

Jack knows himself very well; his weaknesses and his strengths. It's interesting that even as an ascended being Daniel wants Jack to be better than he is; he doesn't want to see the things in Jack that Jack sees in himself.

I also like this episode because it's clear (to me, at least) that Baal doesn't know who Jack is. The name "O'Neill" means nothing to him. If it did, he (Baal) wouldn't focus so single-mindedly on Kanin. It works because Cliff Simon does a terrific job as Baal.

Philosophical question: if no rescue had been forthcoming, and Daniel truly believed Jack was about to break, would he have honored Jack's request to make his next death his last?

ETA: three things about the script bug me: i) Teal's illogical conclusion that because Jack couldn't've walked out of the tokra base by his sole volition, he must have been forced against his will; 2) when Jonas says "unfinished business, a task left undone"; c) when the Tokra points to three worlds and then says "if he returned to either of these worlds..."

Seaboe

Kratos_Goauld_of_War
January 6th, 2012, 04:09 AM
I really enjoyed this episode,too.But there is something I didn't understand or maybe missed while watching it.
Did symbiot make Jack go back to Ba'al place or did Jack want to rescue the slave woman himself?

I always figured that Kanan was affected by Jack's "Leave no man behind" mantra. One if the main tenets of his being. I think this made Kanan feel guilty about leaving the woman behind and he acted on that.

That's how I see it. Although the point is made that Jack would never risk himself or Kanan on a mission that was purely personal and tactically suicidal.

This episode made me greatly dislike the Tok'ra for a good long time. (Well not Jacob/Selmak) because of how they handled the entire situation. Especially not having someone from SG-1 ( I would pick Teal'c) to stay with him until Jack was healed.

Matt G
January 6th, 2012, 02:03 PM
I put a VHS into my Halls of Res machine...

1. Thing with this ep is that there was so much hype over it that I really wasn't sure what to feel about it, as it was, first time around it felt like bringing back Daniel for the sake of bringing back Daniel and so certainly wasn't a favourite of mine so rewatching it was certainly going to be interesting.

2. Having said that Ba'al was always one of the better parts of this ep, he wasn't a guy I'd expected to see again so was certainly impressive.

3. The Jack-Daniel interactions work better this time around, this is probably the most vulnerable we've seen Jack, that he doesn't like himself too much.

4. Actually it reminds me of a comment someone made somewhat later about the ep, how come Daniel hadn't worked out that Jack wasn't as good as he thought he was/didn't think much of himself.

5. Still, very fine line Daniel walked here.

In short, better than I remembered! :)

mathpiglet
January 9th, 2012, 10:39 AM
I thought this a clever episode - especially the varying gravities. Jack's descent into the madness brought on by the constant torture was well- wrought. Baal is a delightfully evil bad guy.

NowIWillDestroyAbydos
January 9th, 2012, 05:18 PM
This was a great episode. In the top 5 of Season 6.

I still love that exchange about Ba'al/Ball from Jack. That was absolutely hilarious.

I was clad to see Daniel back.

Tomorrow, Dean Stockwell, as Jonas returns home temporarily.

Krisz
January 9th, 2012, 06:34 PM
Up there in my list of top episodes!

The scenes between Jack and Daniel have to be some of the best moments in Stargate. Jack is really put on the spot as far as his character goes, he just doesn't want to be acknowledged as the selfless hero he is and being told he could ascend as well!

Ba'al is a superb creepy villian, wonderfully played by Cliff Simon, he became one of my favourite recurring characters. Of course he's one of the nicest people to meet in person, it was so funny to have him join in a Stargate quiz and get the question of which System Lord made Jack's life hell!

Jae'a
January 10th, 2012, 10:04 AM
I thought this a clever episode - especially the varying gravities. Jack's descent into the madness brought on by the constant torture was well- wrought. Baal is a delightfully evil bad guy.
Agreed, I love the gravity stuff too, and Ba'al is a great bad guy. :D

My LiveJournal post (http://jo-r-lee.livejournal.com/31290.html)

jelgate
January 14th, 2012, 12:35 PM
I love this episode just because of the gravity room Ba'al built for his base. For some reason I like how the gravity of Jack's cell changes. The torture of Jack is fun but it seems a little drawn out at times. I'm talking more of the Daniel and Jack interactions more then anything. Ba'al's torturing of Jack was done in sufficent time. I especially like Ba'al has a more calm and cynical form of torture then the brutality we have seen in past System Lords. It was obvious Jack would not be able to ascend. The arguing between the two and Daniel's constant pleaing with Jack really got old. I really like how the rest of SG-1 were able to solve the location of Jack and it was interesting how Jack's capture was how his values changed the symbiote's mind.

ChulaksPrincess
January 15th, 2012, 02:11 PM
This is a great episode. Ba'al is my favorite Go'uld System Lord, and shame on Colonel O'neill for not respecting Ba'al. Lol!
Jack and Daniel are so funny. I was so glad when the other members of SG-1 finally figured out the location of Ba'al's base, and the Colonel lived through that aweful ordeal.

bookwormjules
January 22nd, 2012, 06:40 AM
I also really enjoy the episode. First real glimpse at Ba'al, who was my favourite goa'uld, I wish we got more time seeing his base. I think RDA's performance in this was amazing. He did a fantastic job, and we got to see a side of him we normally don't see - it's rare to see him look defeated.

First time around seeing Daniel was a surprise. Although I wanted him to use his ancienty powers to save O'Neill. All in all a good episode.

Lieutenant Sparrow
February 3rd, 2012, 02:08 AM
Now this ep is a lot better than the last. Ba'al is always great to see. His torturing of Jack was fun to watch.

Daniel returns for an ep which is great. And the Tokra are as annoying as ever.

Starry Starry Night
August 10th, 2012, 12:05 AM
The one thing I really didn't like about this episode, was the torture part. I liked what possibilities that gave to the storytelling, so it's not that I wish it hadn't happened, but I just hate torture scenes... I don't know if it made it better or worse that the guy doing the torturing was so darn good looking!

Still, I did like this episode a lot, mainly for two reasons. All that Jack and Daniel interaction. Not only because I miss it in season 6, but seems like the situation and both their situations, Daniel's ascension and Jack's desperation, brings a new level to it. Another thing that was makes this episode so special is that we get to see Jack so vulnerable. It's very rare thing to see, and I just enjoy the chance...

Many people seem to be mad at Daniel for "not helping" Jack.. I disagree.. He did help him the best way possible. He gave the rest of SG-1 a hint where to find Jack. Had he just busted Jack out (and naturally we all wish he could have done it) but IMO he didn't do wrong by not doing it and by cancelling his own ascension. He would have spoiled the chance to ever help again. This way he would be able to do something in the future also if needed. And he did help.

Also offering Jack the chance to ascend was offer of a true friend. He wanted to save Jack and he offered to help in a way he saw possible. Of course and understandably it wasn't what Jack wanted.. I do wonder though who would have been right... Daniel in his belief that Jack could do it, or Jack in his belief that couldn't do it... Of course we can remember that Daniel himself didn't originally believe that he was good enough for ascension, he needed some convincing that he was worth it. I kind of believe that the same could be the case with Jack... But of course, we can't know...

It's interesting that even though the Tok'ra apparently hijacked Jack's body and acted alone in his decision to go to Ba'al's planet, his motivation for doing it came for Jack. But the rest of the Tok'ra reacted very badly, they should have admitted Kanaan's mistake in order to preserve the alliance with the Tau'ri. Trying to put the blame on Jack to save face did more harm in the end. I did always wonder though, why didn't anyone from SG-1 originally accompany Jack, when he went with the Tok'ra. I would have expected someone to go with him...

Zysu
November 14th, 2012, 05:16 AM
Definitely my favourite episode so far! The scenes between Jack and Daniel are so wonderfully done. The design of Jack's cell and the special effects with it are cool. The torture scenes are unique and not too overdone. And I just love the atmosphere of the episode. Both beautiful and moving. Really well done.

Cluas
January 28th, 2013, 07:04 AM
Nice surprise. Jack has apparently no memory of being a Tok'ra, and Daniel appears. Good episode :daniel:

Falcon Horus
July 2nd, 2013, 02:48 PM
General Hammond's underlings... :p

Not a fan of this episode, mainly cause I have the incredible urge to slap Daniel senseless for thinking that Jack would jump at the chance to ascend with him. Looks like the whole ascension thing has gone to his head already. :S

Aside from that I think Ba'al is actually a really cool Goa'uld, and his gravity-stuff is just wicked.

Two continuity errors spotted:

1) When the sarcophagus opens the very first time Jack's shirt is whole and unscathed. However, next shot we turn back to Jack there's a whole in the fabric near his shoulder where the first dagger Ba'al sends flying will penetrate it. But that hasn't happened yet. Someone wasn't paying attention during editing.

2) The second time he's moved to the cell, one of the big sidepanels turning to show which way is down doesn't turn completely back to its fully in line with the line in the wall. It's off by maybe 10 to 15 cm. However, when the camera shot is from above, the point of the sidepanel is in line with the wall again.

Brother Freyr
July 3rd, 2013, 12:12 AM
Two continuity errors spottedGood eye. (and tough crowd!)

garhkal
July 4th, 2013, 08:57 PM
General Hammond's underlings... :p

Not a fan of this episode, mainly cause I have the incredible urge to slap Daniel senseless for thinking that Jack would jump at the chance to ascend with him. Looks like the whole ascension thing has gone to his head already. :S
\.

Well if given the chance i know i would like to ascend.

Falcon Horus
July 5th, 2013, 12:45 AM
Well if given the chance i know i would like to ascend.

Depending on the situation, but I doubt it.

It's like becoming immortal. Sure, you live on forever but everyone you know will die and there's nothing you can do to stop that.

fems
July 5th, 2013, 05:51 AM
Depending on the situation, but I doubt it.

It's like becoming immortal. Sure, you live on forever but everyone you know will die and there's nothing you can do to stop that.

And you already know everything there is to know because you're this greater being now, so what is there left to do? You're not allowed to interfere with the lower planes and/or to visit your old friends, instead you're stuck with a bunch of know-it-alls who will still treat you as if you are a child (because they've been doing this a lot longer than you) even though you know just as much as they do.

I'm also not sure if they can actually eat and enjoy it, although there was the whole Threads scene but being a blob of energy kind of removes the need to eat, I think. So, there's no joy left there either. They don't have sex although Orlin from Ascension did have this mind-sex thing, but I don't know how pleasurable that really is (because what's left to share if you both already know everything?)...

Falcon Horus
July 5th, 2013, 06:43 AM
Damn, you make it sound so boring... :p

garhkal
July 5th, 2013, 01:40 PM
We know that once ascended you CAN retake human form..

Falcon Horus
July 5th, 2013, 01:53 PM
We know that once ascended you CAN retake human form..

But what would have been the point of ascension in the first place. It's not like you can retain the knowledge gained.

Brother Freyr
July 5th, 2013, 05:57 PM
But what would have been the point of ascension in the first place. It's not like you can retain the knowledge gained.
Well, one point is to escape Ba'al's torture. There's that.

Falcon Horus
July 6th, 2013, 02:23 AM
Well, one point is to escape Ba'al's torture. There's that.

Yes, but is that reason enough... O'Neill didn't think so.

fems
July 6th, 2013, 02:26 AM
Yes, but is that reason enough... O'Neill didn't think so.

Well, at the time he didn't know he could just descend again and Daniel didn't mention it either (no doubt because TPTB hadn't thought of it yet).

Brother Freyr
July 8th, 2013, 03:05 AM
But what would have been the point of ascension in the first place. It's not like you can retain the knowledge gained.

Well, one point is to escape Ba'al's torture. There's that.

Yes, but is that reason enough... O'Neill didn't think so.

O'Neill didn't think it was reason enough, but I sure would. So would many others. Ascension in that circumstance wasn't pointless. Jack didn't think it was pointy enough ;) to do it, but that didn't make it without point. (So many sharp readers in this thread!)

Seaboe Muffinchucker
July 10th, 2013, 11:28 AM
I don't think Jack thought once about whether to ascend, because he truly and deeply believed he could not ascend. Whether it was pointed or pointless did not enter into his thoughts.

Seaboe

Brother Freyr
July 10th, 2013, 01:22 PM
I don't think Jack thought once about whether to ascend, because he truly and deeply believed he could not ascend. Whether it was pointed or pointless did not enter into his thoughts.
Yes, I think you nailed it.

garhkal
July 16th, 2013, 01:48 PM
Well, one point is to escape Ba'al's torture. There's that.

And if that was not reason enough i don't know what would have been.

enibas5
July 25th, 2015, 10:41 AM
Put two guys in an empty cell, give them no props at all, put everything else into the writing and have a director as Martin Wood take care of it. Then that whole thing can turn out to finally demonstrate, that you have brilliant actors, writers and directors working for the show.

With RDA cutting on onscreen-time and MS having left, the producers
must have realised that they are going to loose the show, if they do not pull off something really out of the ordinary and have those two characters back for doing so. Wise move, I think.

Everything fits together. The dialogues are brilliant and performed convincingly, camera angels are always at their best, the torturing is bearable to watch and not overdone, while the audience gets the whole idea of how horrible it must be by RDA's performance and interaction with MS afterwards in the cell.
Such a good choice to let Martin Wood direct this ep. instead of e.g. Peter DeLuise.

Seaboe Muffinchucker
July 27th, 2015, 07:10 AM
Such a good choice to let Martin Wood direct this ep. instead of e.g. Peter DeLuise.

Oh, I don't know. PDL did Tangent, which is also a marvelous stick-two-men-in-a-small-space and let them talk episode.

Seaboe

Janet Fraiser
July 27th, 2015, 08:04 AM
Oh, I don't know. PDL did Tangent, which is also a marvelous stick-two-men-in-a-small-space and let them talk episode.

Seaboe

Also Lifeboat :)

garhkal
July 27th, 2015, 10:17 AM
Put two guys in an empty cell, give them no props at all, put everything else into the writing and have a director as Martin Wood take care of it. Then that whole thing can turn out to finally demonstrate, that you have brilliant actors, writers and directors working for the show.


It really sucks imo that the acting in this ep, was never really recognized by any award show other than the Saturn awards..

enibas5
July 27th, 2015, 01:04 PM
Oh, I don't know. PDL did Tangent, which is also a marvelous stick-two-men-in-a-small-space and let them talk episode.

Ehm..no, to me that was a totally different setting. The setting really did not in any way focus on the interaction between the characters and concerning the directors skills, well...there was not any movement required - or better, there was not any movement possible. One cannot compare these two eps, just because in both happen to be two men talking.


Also Lifeboat :)

I think, you guys got me wrong. I do not say, that PDL cannot direct a non-action-ep., but I do not see, where lifeboat stood out in terms of directing. It did not have to, because the subject of the acting - the different personalities - were so powerful, that there was no need for specials. Again, it is not comparable to "Abyss". Watch "Abyss" closely and look for the camera angles and how often they change to stress a given situation/emotion within that cell, and how the close-ups fit in...to mention only one aspect of that piece of direction.

Janet Fraiser
July 27th, 2015, 01:27 PM
Ehm..no, to me that was a totally different setting. The setting really did not in any way focus on the interaction between the characters and concerning the directors skills, well...there was not any movement required - or better, there was not any movement possible. One cannot compare these two eps, just because in both happen to be two men talking.



I think, you guys got me wrong. I do not say, that PDL cannot direct a non-action-ep., but I do not see, where lifeboat stood out in terms of directing. It did not have to, because the subject of the acting - the different personalities - were so powerful, that there was no need for specials. Again, it is not comparable to "Abyss". Watch "Abyss" closely and look for the camera angles and how often they change to stress a given situation/emotion within that cell, and how the close-ups fit in...to mention only one aspect of that piece of direction.

Have you listened to the commentary by PDL for Lifeboat? It's interesting hearing about how they made the story work in one room and the challenges associated with doing so (like with regard to the cameras).

Lifeboat certainly stands out to me for its acting, but I also liked the angles and the changing closeups of Daniel and Janet as he's switching through all of those personalities, and both are uncertain and uneasy in that isolation room. That aspect really did stand out to me.

To be honest, I think it's a matter of preference and what you, as a viewer, paid the most attention to that would qualify one episode as being superior to the other. I've noticed that a number of episodes you've called "average" or "weak" are ones that I really like, so I'm not sure that they can be such objective terms. I'm not saying you can't say that, but I'm just pointing out that there are differing views on how well each episode was handled. :)

enibas5
July 27th, 2015, 04:57 PM
To be honest, I think it's a matter of preference and what you, as a viewer, paid the most attention to that would qualify one episode as being superior to the other. I've noticed that a number of episodes you've called "average" or "weak" are ones that I really like, so I'm not sure that they can be such objective terms. I'm not saying you can't say that, but I'm just pointing out that there are differing views on how well each episode was handled. :)
Oh, I absolutely agree. If I comment here on episodes, calling them weak or average, I do not bother to stress the fact that this is just a personal opinion/preference, for I take it for granted to be the case with almost every single comment in the various episode threads.

I might have pushed that a little bit too much now in my effort to convince you, how brilliantly "Abyss" is done. 'Cause finally, that can also be only an opinion. I just think, PDL would have directed it differently; and "differently" for me would have been "worse", because I cannot think of any other way to get the result, Martin Wood achieved.

Seaboe Muffinchucker
July 28th, 2015, 06:22 AM
I don't disagree that Abyss is brilliant. However, I think Tangent is brilliant, too, because you felt for the two men--who couldn't even look at each other when they spoke. I don't think Martin Wood could have done a better job.

In any case, I agree that a PDL directed Abyss would've been a different critter, and so would a MW directed Tangent.

Seaboe

Falcon Horus
July 29th, 2015, 01:12 PM
I have a feeling that enibas5 is leaning towards Abyss as the better of the two because it's Jack and Daniel talking, while in Tangent it's Jack and Teal'c. If I'm not mistaken, then I've seen comments on episodes with Teal'c that she cares not (much) for the Jaffa. :p

This clouds the judgement a little when looking at an episode as a whole.

enibas5
July 29th, 2015, 10:40 PM
Oh, please. Do you read me to be that shallow?
Do you really want to compare those dialogues and the whole setting?
Teal'c is looking straight ahead and doing the usual "I'll die free or well or whatever talk", summing up - I did not count - to maybe 20 sentences within the whole ep.?
You really want to call that an intense dialogue as seen in Abyss?
RDA had a little bit more (voice) acting to do, with getting more and more tired and hopeless while on the radio and suffering from hypoxia.
It is not a downgrade, because that is Teal'c character. Of course, you cannot do an ep. like Abyss with his character. That does not have anything to do with liking the character or not. Actually, I like him. He was essential for the show. But for me Teal'c always was a supportive character, with a background that I did not really take interest in - or rather, the background presented (family, Bra'tac, etc.) was enough for me to know.

Seaboe Muffinchucker
July 30th, 2015, 07:43 AM
We're going to have to agree to disagree on this. IMO, both episodes are brilliant--sometimes for reasons that have nothing to do with dialog. I believe PDL could've directed a brilliant Abyss, but that it would not have been the same (for myriad reasons that I'm not going to set out here). I believe MW could've directed a brilliant Tangent, ditto.

Seaboe

Falcon Horus
July 30th, 2015, 01:38 PM
Oh, please. Do you read me to be that shallow?

You did mention you consider yourself a female who watches mainly for the male character - so it wasn't that much of a stretch to jump to a conclusion. ;) Don't worry, however, considering the activity of the male character threads, I would say your in good company.

However, judgements are always clouded by what we like or don't like, no matter how hard we try to tell ourselves that isn't true. My favorite character in SGA appears in a grand total of 5 episodes so I automatically rate them higher than all the others, even though there are some absolutely brilliant episodes in the other 195 or so episodes.

enibas5
July 30th, 2015, 07:45 PM
You did mention you consider yourself a female who watches mainly for the male character - so it wasn't that much of a stretch to jump to a conclusion. ;)
Nope! Did not write that anywhere. What I wrote, was, that I had even tested myself, if I might dislike eps. that focus on Carter, because she is female and IF I might just like ohter eps. better, because they focous on the male characters, which I consider to be quite self-reflecting, while you are trying to construct a proof of shallowness out of this fact. Within the same posting I then wrote, that this does not seem to be the case and pointed out, why it DOES NOT have to do with Carter being female, but with Carter herself.


[...]
Out of 214 eps. there might be around 6-8 that I do not rewatch anymore, for I do not want to waste my precious time. However, as with other eps. I dislike, I at least did rewatch them twice, before abandoning for good.
It did not help with "Grace". Rewatching led to a minor better understanding of the plot, but not a bit to better entertainment. It is just completely boring.
Since I feel that way a lot, when it comes to eps. that focus on Sam (can't stand 'Death Knell' either), I even checked myself, if it might just be a result of, as me being female, generally wanting to have the focus on the male characters. But, nope! That's not the reason. Sam just is not so complex as indicated in eps. like "Grace". There are over 100 eps. before, showing her very one-dimensional military character.We've known her for 7 years now, and all of a sudden TPTB want to make believe that she is so much more than this? No, I don't buy it. If she were, it would have shown before.[...]

So, it is not very pleasant, if you make statements of me having posted something which is not true. It is especially not very nice to go even further and trying to draw connections to threads, that I have not even once looked into and that obiously focus on the male characters. It is a manipulative way of shutting someone up. Did I mention, that all this is not very nice? Ok, no reason for hard feelings on this side. Just keep that in mind for future postings, please.


However, judgements are always clouded by what we like or don't like, no matter how hard we try to tell ourselves that isn't true. My favorite character in SGA appears in a grand total of 5 episodes so I automatically rate them higher than all the others, even though there are some absolutely brilliant episodes in the other 195 or so episodes.
Yes, of course they are clouded - but there do also exist objective facts. And that the whole setting of "Tangent" is not comparable to "Abyss" is a fact, that it is obvious, regardless if both eps. can be judged as brilliant in their own ways.
As to your favourite character: Adria?

Seaboe Muffinchucker
July 31st, 2015, 06:33 AM
Your opinion concerning the settings not being comparable is not a fact. It is an opinion. Just as mine is.

Seaboe

enibas5
July 31st, 2015, 06:48 AM
No, it is not. Because, if not anything else, you can literally see the different setting. Even though I initially used that term on a wider range.

Falcon Horus
August 1st, 2015, 08:58 AM
My apologies for making assumptions. No need to be hostile about it.

That's just how I interpreted it - clearly I was wrong.

But why are male character episodes more self-reflective? Can't female characters be self-reflective?

enibas5
August 1st, 2015, 09:52 AM
My apologies for making assumptions. No need to be hostile about it.
I am not. But you saw, that it takes a lot of sentences to clearify a false statement. And since this was about me as a person, I of course wanted to correct it.


But why are male character episodes more self-reflective? Can't female characters be self-reflective?
Ha ha, when I read, what I had written I wondered if that sentence is structured in a way that may lead to misunderstanding. Now, I see - it obviously is. Please read again. "Self-reflective" refers to me, not to the male characters. That sentence was just poorly structured.

Anja
September 24th, 2015, 02:21 AM
Too much torturing but good Jackson/O'Neill lines and an O'Neill just about to break down.
Something new here, new side of the character.
Clever SG1 - sweet ending.:rolleyes:

Nirude
June 6th, 2016, 06:34 AM
I like how the SG-1 novels Matter of Honor and Cost of Honor build on what this episode began, a lot of cool stuff is revisted.

Late2theGate
October 6th, 2016, 06:38 PM
Such a beautiful and well done episode. All the scenes with Jack and Daniel were great, always love when these two go at each other.

Early on I think Daniel sees no other option for Jack. In Full Circle he says he's breaking rules just by warning Jack about Anubis, so here he doesn't see directly telling the team where Jack is as an option. But when things are really desperate for Jack, Daniel isn't there and I firmly believe it's because he's subtly tipping off SG-1.

I just finished reading A Matter of Honor and will soon read The Cost of Honor. I'm glad the events are revisited because Jack and Daniel both need closure, and I don't know how well that would have worked as an episode of the show.

garhkal
October 6th, 2016, 10:08 PM
Are those novels any good??

hedwig
October 7th, 2016, 11:24 AM
Are those novels any good??

The "Honor" books are excellent. Out of all the SG1 novels, they are a couple of the very best.

Marcinilux
October 7th, 2016, 07:58 PM
The "Honor" books are excellent. Out of all the SG1 novels, they are a couple of the very best.

Wait, are there novels..? Can someone explain this to me, I had no idea!

Anja
October 8th, 2016, 03:04 AM
Wait, are there novels..? Can someone explain this to me, I had no idea!

There are lots of novels - ask Mr Google!

hedwig
October 8th, 2016, 04:25 PM
Wait, are there novels..? Can someone explain this to me, I had no idea!

Check out stargatenovels.com and Fandemonium on Facebook. The first one will give you a list of all the novels related to SG1 and SGA. There is only one (that I know of) for SGU. There are at least 26 SG1 books and maybe 15-20 SGA novels there. Some are really good (like the "Honor" novels) and some are not.

There have also been some SG1 novels written before the above were written. They related just to SG1 and only have the Jack and Daniel from the original movie in them. I haven't read any of them.

Late2theGate
October 8th, 2016, 10:36 PM
A Matter of Honor is the only one I've read so far. I look every now and then at used book stores but have never seen any. I tracked MOH down because of its follow up to the events of Abyss, and since it ends in a cliffhanger I've ordered and am waiting on Cost of Honor. Those two also reference events from the episode A Matter of Time.

Definitely enjoyed part 1.

Falcon Horus
October 9th, 2016, 02:13 AM
Wait, are there novels..? Can someone explain this to me, I had no idea!

They are official fanfiction -- not written by any of the writers of the show but condoned by MGM.

Unofficial fanfiction is plenty -- and in all sorts, all pairings, all ratings, all genres.

hedwig
October 10th, 2016, 10:57 AM
A Matter of Honor is the only one I've read so far. I look every now and then at used book stores but have never seen any. I tracked MOH down because of its follow up to the events of Abyss, and since it ends in a cliffhanger I've ordered and am waiting on Cost of Honor. Those two also reference events from the episode A Matter of Time.

Definitely enjoyed part 1.

Check out abebooks.com. They sell used books, and I've gotten most of my Stargate novels through them.

The Honor books start out following the events of A Matter of Time mostly, but do have bits in them that follow what happened in Abyss.