Were humans the reason that Orii and Alteran were sundered?

[Quakerbone]

Just wondering, but does anyone else think that the arrival/creation of a lesser race with greater potential could have been the thing that divided Orii and Alteran? I 've been wondering whether the religious and scientific divide between the original 'ancients' could have been intensified and finalized by the prescence of a child/sibling species. Anyone else considered this?

[the fifth man]

Hmmm, I hadn't given that possibility much thought before.

[Bragi]

Orlin: Believe me, you don't know everything. A long time ago, the Ori and the Alterans were one society, human, on an evolutionary path to ascension, but a philosophical division grew. The Ori grew more and more fervent in their religious belief. The Alterans…for lack of a better way of putting it…believed in science. The Ori tried to wipe them out.
Daniel: So instead of going to war, the Alterans built a ship, left their galaxy, and came here. Uh, we know that both the Alterans and the Ori eventually ascended, and that the Ori passed on a religion called "Origin" to the next evolution of humans they created.

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Orlin: "Simply" is not how I would put it. It's quite complicated, but possible. And for it to have a measurable effect, it requires massive numbers of humans relinquishing their will. Nevertheless, it is one of the main reasons the Ancients have so strongly believed in strict non-interference in the lower planes.
Daniel: Because the temptation to manipulate and align lower life forms in some order for your own purposes could result in exactly this type of abusive corruption.

That certainly is implied here, I think. I don't know if that's what the writers are going for though.

[LORD MONK]

I think you hit it on the head on this one. (and you did it all by qouting)

[Krendoshazin]

No it wasn't, the Ori and the Ancients were enemies long before any of this happened. The Ori believed in religion and believed that ascension should give them the right to be worshipped as gods, but the Alterans (Ancients) attached a scientific ideal to it, they viewed it as nothing more than another state of existance.
The Ori tried to wipe the Alterans out, and that's why they left their Galaxy looking for a new home and after thousands of years found the Milky Way. They stayed there for a long time and during that time Atlantis their city-ship got built.

The Ori released a plague upon them which wiped out nearly all life in the Milky Way, those that survived took the (still uncompleted) city-ship Atlantis and traveled to the Pegasus Galaxy. A few that remained decided to use the weapon on dakara to recreate life in the Milky Way, creating the second evolution of their species.
Those that could ascend did, those that couldn't eventually died of the plague. Not wanting the same thing to happen to us as what happened to them, they used their power to hide the existance of the second evolution.

The Ori also created a second evolution in their own Galaxy, the Alterans former home, and sometime after the Alterans learned to ascend. Not wanting to become corrupted as the Ori had, the Alterans created a strict non-interfearance rule about anything concerning the lower planes.

So you see, the Ori and the Alterans were at war long before they created the Second Evolution, and it's because the Ori wiped pretty much all life out in the Milky Way that they did so.

[Bragi]

^^^^

Well... it's not a black and white "either lesser evolved humans were the reason for the split or they weren't" situation. It's a "camel's back" type situation. And I think that's the context that most of us are putting it in. Yes, there were tons of issues before this one came up, obviously, but this could have been the final breaking point.

Besides, you're really reaching here with the plague stuff. Now, as a writer, I'd argue that the plague was started by the Ori... but that hasn't been established as canon yet, so you can't state it as such. Also, you run into a very big problem in that, we don't know when the plague was started exactly. If the plague began millions of years after the Ancients came to this galaxy, and the Ori didn't know they were here, how exactly did they transmit the plague? If the Ori spread the plague before the Ancients left, why did it take so long before it became such a major issue for them?

So yeah and stuff....

[Quakerbone]

I was just philosophizing a little bit earlier, and wondering about how different groups would tackle the meeting of a new sentient species- a more "primitive" one, rather than an advanced one. I can see some groups in our world trying to protect and isolate the new race so it can grow, but another group attempting to reshape and dominate them so the species can be more like what they want.

I was thinking whether such an event in our own real-life world could create that sort of a rift between religion and science. Lets say that in a few decades, when humans have found more space to use than just Earth, a primate species learns how to reason and express emotions beyond a doubt. I can see a major conflict occurring between science-leaning and religion-leaning people relative to this development. Not so much as a new conflict or division, but a serious heightening of the problem that has existed for milennia.

As for the plauge, I have no idea how the writers intend to explain the movement of the plauge from the Orii galaxy to ours (If it is indeed the same disease)

[the fifth man]

^^^^

Well... it's not a black and white "either lesser evolved humans were the reason for the split or they weren't" situation. It's a "camel's back" type situation. And I think that's the context that most of us are putting it in. Yes, there were tons of issues before this one came up, obviously, but this could have been the final breaking point.

Indeed! It is definitely a good possibility.

[Cherriey]

Obviously the reason the Alterans and Ori split was because of 'irreconcileable differences" (sp). Their beliefs didn't jive with one another and the Ori weren't about to tolerate the Alterans not going along with them. The Ancients probably would have been content to hang out in th cosmos being enlightened like a bunch of hyper-intelligent pan dimensional hippies but the Ori wanted all consuming belief and power.

[Spell_Daemon]

NO!! It had nothing to do with humans, they were not around until the plague began, this is not fact but implied in many cases by the timeline. The Ancients created the humans after they were wiped out, but it could not have been by the ascended ancients as they do not believe in interfearing with lesser beings, therefore humans must have been created by the ancients who had not ascended using the device found on Dakara "Threads"!

The Ori and the Altarens disagreed long before this, it was on their phylosophical views. They created humans in their galaxy aswell (probably after they ascended as they learned that how powerful they are depeneds on how many supporters they have).

It is uncertain how the plague began, but it is implied that it is the Ori because they are spreading the same plague as what the Ancients contracted.

Atlantis was created long before this aswell, though on earth, and left to the Pegasus galaxy long before the plague (Some came back to earth and grew into our version of humans (that is why some people have the geen, they are descendeds of ancients).

[Spell_Daemon]

Obviously the reason the Alterans and Ori split was because of 'irreconcileable differences" (sp). Their beliefs didn't jive with one another and the Ori weren't about to tolerate the Alterans not going along with them. The Ancients probably would have been content to hang out in th cosmos being enlightened like a bunch of hyper-intelligent pan dimensional hippies but the Ori wanted all consuming belief and power.

I agree with your first statment. But you're statment about Ancient being hippies that harsh and totally missed the target:

The ancient believe that if lesser beings can make it to the higher plain of exsistance than they deserve to be there, but if they can't then the ancients have no right to help them. The journey would be worthless if it was not achieved properly. This just proves there phylosophical beliefs are good.(good as in good and evil) (more good ( again, good as in good and evil) than the ancients) That is why they don't help not because they are hippies that think that hounour knowledge.

[HirogenGater]

It's a good theory.

[Spell_Daemon]

It's a bit more than a theory. If you look over the episodes, you will easily find that, every one related, describes. Most of the stuff I said is actually described by the story, though I must admit there is some that is implied, but it is implied in a way that it can fit no other thing.