Did "Seige Part 3" ruin the show?

[Quakerbone]

Just wondering if anyone else feels that Atlantis has lost its edge and emotion since the introduction of the the Daedelus, the ZPM, and the substantially weakened Wraith.

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Just wondering if anyone else feels that Atlantis has lost its edge and emotion since the introduction of the the Daedelus, the ZPM, and the substantially weakened Wraith.

they should have left it as was without asgard hyperdrives, cant we come up with something of our own instead of 'borrowing' from everyone else bit goa'uld like getting everything for free

[SGRanger06]

In my opinion "Siege 3" brought a new dynamic to the show. The fact that the Atlantis Expedition Team can't just sit around and play defense all day. They have to go on the offensive. I think the Wraith aren't as "powerfull" as they once were, in the sense that we now have more ways to strike back against them. This new strategy of offense, again in my opinion, was necessary for the show to begin its growth and reach its full potential.

[Jumper One]

I know the Siege III did something... I'm just not sure what it is yet.

[Pharaoh Atem]

and the substantially weakened Wraith.

the wraith are weak????????

[Dylan Deltoran]

No...siege part 3 didnt ruin the show...we only got One ZPM and the Wraith were able to thwart our beam and bomb technique...they've still got a massive armada out there...

[Ouroboros]

It certainly ruined the awesome build up of the first two eps.

All that waiting and drama and they solve it with a miraculous out of the blue invention again and by making the Wraith seem really stupid.

I think it would have been a lot more interesting if they'd let the Wraith take the city from them and then made season 2 all about our guys trying to find a way to take it back.

You know like in deep space nine when the Dominion got the station from them.

Instead of a minefield though the Wraith would have to find the 3 ZPMs they'd now need to fire up the city's intergalactic drive and fly to/feed on Earth.

The SGA expedition would have to take the city back before that happened.

You could have built up the tension by cutting back and forth between the ocupied city and what the team was doing. Like say at the end of one of the episodes just show the Wraith for two minutes as one of their generals walks up to his hivequeen and hands her a ZPM.

Oh no they've already got one! Only two left!

Then later on in the season you do something similar with a second ZPM and finally a third one as our heroes race to stop them at the last minute.

In this type of scenario the Daedalus would have been important because it would have been the team's new much more spartan home/base while they were on the run.

You could even have written it that they couldn't go back to the MW in it anymore because they no longer had the ZPM to boost their engines.

So it would have been one little ship all by itself trying to find allies or left over ancient technology in Pegasus to help them take on the overwhelming odds presented by the now occupied city of Atlantis and the Wraith in general. Cut off and with no way to warn Earth of the impending Wraith attack it would be up to them to find a way to stop it in time.

It would have felt like season 1 SG-1 again and I think I'd rather have liked that.

[Bragi]

Only if you wanted it to.

Only if you wanted it to...........

[LORD MONK]

No...siege part 3 didnt ruin the show...we only got One ZPM and the Wraith were able to thwart our beam and bomb technique...they've still got a massive armada out there...

I agree. All that show did was add a ZPM and the Big D which was kick butt.
I for one am sick of running and widing and losing. If we when it is by the skin of our shiny shin shin.

[Draco_Astreus]

As far as the Wraith occupying Atlantis is concerned, dude that would never work. Remember the whole thing about them having access to the Ancient Database?? That would just be very bad, they would know all that advanced technology and they would have Earth's address (well maybe they wouldn't have the control crystal if our guys took it with them but still that's bad). Aaaaand don't forget, the plan to blow up Atlantis wasn't going to work BECAUSE they knew the Wraith could easily reverse-engineer their own intergalactic engine from the debris. There are just too many bad things that would have come from an occupation of the City of the Ancestors...

(by the way, Hi I'm back after a few moths )

[zpm!!]

Just wondering if anyone else feels that Atlantis has lost its edge and emotion since the introduction of the the Daedelus, the ZPM, and the substantially weakened Wraith.

no, it gave an asnwer to the problem that the sg-a was looking for. the power to defend themselves and to try and protect the pegusas galaxy and the last hope for the people of pegusas. now, they have to step it up.

[Wraith_Hunter]

I don't think introducing Daedalus make the show lose anything, infact I think adding it in gives the show a new dimension. Especially when you consider that their enemies only use ships for doing their stuff. How can you expect to fight Hives & Cruisers as well as hundreds of Darts while on the ground.

The only bad thing in regards to the Daedalus is that they gave it an Asgard plus all this uber advanced tech, then use the excuse that they did for the weapons. The Asgard could easily have designed a much dumbed down version of their energy weapons. Just enough to damage Goa'uld & Wraith ships but not anything near powerful enough to scratch an Asgard ships shields. Even if they still didn't go for it, a Hat'ak or Al'kesh could have had it's weapons stripped & integrated into Daedalus.

Then the other things that's wrong with introducing Daedalus, they used a cloaking generator to cloak Atlantis, yet never bothered to even test it out on Daedalus. Then the fact that they have lots of jumpers, like in 'The Hive', they use a PJ for recon on the Hive ships. Then charge in blindly with rail guns again. Yet never thought of launching Drones from the PJ while it was docked inside the hangar bay from the safety of being behind the shields.

Those are the only thing that irks me about them introducing ships. You can't make 3/4's of it super advanced, then simply ignore one of the most important elements of it, that being the weapons systems. I really would like to see them smarten up on their plots & ideas, rather than bringing in things & making them seem totally unbelieveable.

Barring those few holes I really think the letdown hasn't come from ships or any tech, it's more the characters that've taken something away from the show for me. This season the characters have lost a little something that didn't such through anywhere near as much as in S1. In every ep it seemed like they were totally incompetent & out of their depth, yet we were told that they were the best of the best that Earth had to offer. Whereas in S1, they much more professional & actually seemed worthy to be there in the first place. The same for the Wraith, this year they seem like a bunch of space clowns rather than space vampires. Bringing an enemy on board & letting them keep a whole drawer of knives in a prisoners hair etc, etc.

I really would like to see them smarten up their characters a bit. Okay the Wraith are good a computer viruses, apart from that, they've not really given anything to even suggest that they managed to wipe out the Ancients. If the Atlantis team had a handful of Warships, ZPM's, Drones etc, then the Wraith would be history by now. So I really cannot see how they managed to do it at all to the Lantians. This is something I really would like to see changed in S3, allow the Atlantis team to use the best tech available, then have the Wraith adapt & overcome. If they do that then I know it'll make a lot of fans very happy, including myself!

[Ouroboros]

As far as the Wraith occupying Atlantis is concerned, dude that would never work. Remember the whole thing about them having access to the Ancient Database?? That would just be very bad, they would know all that advanced technology and they would have Earth's address (well maybe they wouldn't have the control crystal if our guys took it with them but still that's bad). Aaaaand don't forget, the plan to blow up Atlantis wasn't going to work BECAUSE they knew the Wraith could easily reverse-engineer their own intergalactic engine from the debris. There are just too many bad things that would have come from an occupation of the City of the Ancestors...

(by the way, Hi I'm back after a few moths )

Yes I know about all the goodies the Wraith would potentially get their hands on, that's what creates the drama.

Atlantis the series has felt to "safe" since the begining.

The fact that our guys would have to worry every day about what the Wraith were going to dig out of the city's computers or other marvels would be the source of all the suspense and drama. The final goal of the Wraith would be to fire up the city and fly it to Earth for harvesting or build an engine of their own. Neither of those is going to happen overnight though so it gives the SGA team time to stop them while also creating suspense around whether they'll be able to do so in time or not.

If you wanted to take extra steps to sell the notion that it would take the Wraith time to do this stuff you could easily make up something about the city haveing a security system/ancient gene thing that prevented Wraith from using the various technology. Them hacking/bypassing that would then be part of the time countdown until doom thing.

The Wraith taking over the city is just one what if idea I had anyway.

The point is that seige 3 and the episodes that followed it only made the heros stronger and the supposed super ancient killing enemies even weaker and stupider seeming.

Since the show really felt too safe even in the first season, and the Wraith have never been able to live up to their rep, this isn't what it needed IMO.

Seige III didn't really ruin the show on it's own or anything but it didn't make it any better either, and after the first two great parts it was a pretty big letdown.

Hopefully allies part 2 will better be able to live up to the solid quality of part 1.

[Wraith_Hunter]

Yes I know about all the goodies the Wraith would potentially get their hands on, that's what creates the drama.

Atlantis the series has felt to "safe" since the begining.

The fact that our guys would have to worry every day about what the Wraith were going to dig out of the city's computers or other marvels would be the source of all the suspense and drama. The final goal of the Wraith would be to fire up the city and fly it to Earth for harvesting or build an engine of their own. Neither of those is going to happen overnight though so it gives the SGA team time to stop them while also creating suspense around whether they'll be able to do so in time or not.

If you wanted to take extra steps to sell the notion that it would take the Wraith time to do this stuff you could easily make up something about the city haveing a security system/ancient gene thing that prevented Wraith from using the various technology. Them hacking/bypassing that would then be part of the time countdown until doom thing.

The Wraith taking over the city is just one what if idea I had anyway.

The point is that seige 3 and the episodes that followed it only made the heros stronger and the supposed super ancient killing enemies even weaker and stupider seeming.

Since the show really felt too safe even in the first season, and the Wraith have never been able to live up to their rep, this isn't what it needed IMO.

Seige III didn't really ruin the show on it's own or anything but it didn't make it any better either, and after the first two great parts it was a pretty big letdown.

Hopefully allies part 2 will better be able to live up to the solid quality of part 1.

Giving the Wraith control of Atlantis for a whole series or even a whole bunch of episodes wouldn't work. Yes I agree it would provide great drama. However the fact that the Wraith can easily transmit knowledge to the rest of their race, simply means that before they are taken out they can transmit it to the rest. When that happens, the show doesn't really have any meaning left any longer, being that there is so many Wraith ship prowling the galaxy out there, then it would be impossible to track all of their movements. By the time they get there, the others will have been alerted. Then all Atlantis would entail is having a bunch of allied ships at the edge of the MW galaxy battling invading Wraith ships every week. Not really that thrilling, this is why they came up with the idea of seperate factions, simply so that those who do get there eventually don't need to spill the beans on it's location. Despite the fact that whoever gets the coordinates & means to travel to it with upgraded drives, they could reunite all other Wraith under their control. Given the other scenario, stay & fight each other for the scrapsof remaining human populations that's left in Pegasus, or swtich their allegiance to a new Queen & get taken to a new never ending feeding ground with Billions & Billions of humans for them to feed on. Not really a tough choice for them to make!

I wrote a post over on SG1 Archive ebfore S2 aired, about the Wraith taking control of Atlantis for TS3 & Intruder, then have Daedalus show up & expel the Hives in orbit. At the end have the remaining pockets of Wraith escape through the gate, then for the whole season, you'd be left to wonder exactly what they managed to get from the DB. That would be much more plausible to me, rather than having them inhabit it for a whole year. It's harder to do now though. I can see the writers making the team eventually lose Atlantis to the Wraith though, probably when they plan to finally kill of the Wraith will it be done.

IMO it's not just Atlantis that has felt sage since the start, Sg-1 also has done this, everytime they got captured in the early seasons they would be cracking jokes in the cells. Even in S6, O'Neill done it with Jonas about his first time being aboard a Goa'uld ship. It's always been a part of the writing of the show to dumb down such situations with light humour. So can't ever see it being changed now after all this time. No matter what situation happens, you always know they'll get out of it okay in the end. Shep has been at deaths door so many times now, yet miraculously always comes through in the end. Which is the exact same thing they did in 'Allies' with him that was done in 'TS2'.

I really would like to see them make it more serious, say have the Lucian Alliance launch an impending attack against Earth. The SGC finds out about it beforehand, they know they don't have the power source or amount of Drones to take out a whole fleets of ships. So we see a huge meeting with the International Committee & the SGC, they reach a solution to take the ZPM from Atlantis & all it's Drones in a last ditch effort to save Earth. Daedalus is sent away with them at top spped, after a few days it gets to the edge of the MW galaxy, they beam down to the nearest planet & gate all the stuff immediately back through to the SGC. This adds a great deal of seriousness to both shows & again leaves Atlantis at the mercy of Wraith attacks again while removing the safety blanket. All they have for safety is Orion with it's slow HyperDrive & single storeroom full of Drones, along with Daedalus. Stuff to add a bit more seriousness to the SG universe would go down great with me!

[Mattathias2.0]

I would have to disagree...

I think it was enevitable that Earth would send a starship over to Atlantis during a very important mission, one way or another... esp. given we would expect our technology to become more advanced over time...

I also believe having the Colonel from The Siege, Part II, as well as the Daedelus Captain create a new dynamic for the show. Can one really think that Earth would allow a civilian to continue operating the Ancient city of Atlantis with the massive war with the Wraith? I doubt it.

I, however, still prefer the Atlantis Expedition from S1. Good ol' times!

Mattathias