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Stevos
February 22nd, 2006, 01:01 PM
Wouldn't it be great to see an ancient battle group, even if it was only a video on atlantis' database.

I would say that the o'ryan (or what ever it was called) class ships are probably destroyers.

So I would expect 4 destroyers, 2 crusiers, and a carrier in the typical battle group.

Wouldn't be great if the carrier could carry say 50+ puddle jumpers (like the hive ships).

I think the crusiers should have beam weapons like the satelite, to take on the hive ships.

The destroyers would have dones to take out the darts, and provide defensive fire for the group.

Erik Pasternak
February 22nd, 2006, 01:04 PM
Eh. I don't really see what the point would be, except just to see it. Besides, why would they waste valuable money on SFX just to see it. As a somewhat of a side note, I'd be surprised if a carrier had fifty puddle jumpers, as it so far seems that Atlantis itself has only ten or so.

andrelage
February 22nd, 2006, 01:08 PM
I would say that the o'ryan (or what ever it was called) class ships are probably destroyers.

its aurora class warships

Stevos
February 22nd, 2006, 01:08 PM
Atlantis is a city, i would assume the ancients also had dedicated military bases like we have.

As for what would the point be other than just to see it, what is the point of watching atlantis other than entertainment.

creed462
February 22nd, 2006, 01:12 PM
I Don't know they didn't seem to much for war

Prior_of_the_Ori
February 22nd, 2006, 01:18 PM
Considering that the Ancient Atlanteans were peaceful not sure if there would be large designations as a normal military would. I mean so far before the war with the Wraith they never had an enemy that forced them to war (we can only guess since so far we have never heard of any other enemies back then). Still, would be cool to see.

So far we know that three of the Ancient Atlanteans warships were used to meet the Wraith for a talk of peace. (damn, I wish there was a flashback of that actual moment). So we have three there. Another one was the Aurora and another one was the Orion. So we have about five ships in total. That plus at least two city ships. So, so far thats the fleet they have in Pegasus.

Wraith_Hunter
February 22nd, 2006, 01:48 PM
So far we know that three of the Ancient Atlanteans warships were used to meet the Wraith for a talk of peace. (damn, I wish there was a flashback of that actual moment). So we have three there. Another one was the Aurora and another one was the Orion. So we have about five ships in total. That plus at least two city ships. So, so far thats the fleet they have in Pegasus.

All that was said regarding the ships was:


ALT-WEIR: The Atlanteans sent a delegation protected by their most powerful warships in the faint hope of negotiating a truce. One on one, the Atlantean ships were more powerful, but the Wraith were so many. After that great battle, it was only a matter of time.

It could have been any number, no direct reference was made. The fact that it said most powerful, leads me to believe that there must have been different classes of ships. The problem here is that since all the most powerful ships were sent & lost the battle, then it could be the best ones are all destroyed & only the 'Aurora' class are the ones that remain.

Prior_of_the_Ori
February 22nd, 2006, 01:58 PM
I could have sworn they said it was three ships...meh.

Most powerful could mean anything though not necessarily class. It could mean that they were the elite ships among the Ancient Atlanteans who had a lot of combat experience to fight the Wraith. Its entirely possible that they felt the 'Aurora' class were sufficient for the task after all its said that the Atlanteans could defeat a Wraith ship one on one so why try and change the ship if you think its a successful design?

Guess we will have to wait for the next season to see if thats wrong or not.

Stuey1221
February 22nd, 2006, 02:00 PM
Without sounding stupid, has it been assumed that the puddle jumpers are also fighters, for example the Puddle Jumper is the Ancients version of our F-302?

Auralis
February 22nd, 2006, 02:00 PM
Yes, the line send their best, would indicate that they had at least one class of ships of unknown numbers that where more powerfull then the aurora class of ships.

Ludofjn
February 22nd, 2006, 07:42 PM
What wepons would a ancie:prioranime01:mckay

jenks
February 22nd, 2006, 09:41 PM
Without sounding stupid, has it been assumed that the puddle jumpers are also fighters, for example the Puddle Jumper is the Ancients version of our F-302?

We know they can be used as fighters, but IMO i doubt thats what they were designed for...

Avatar28
February 23rd, 2006, 12:58 AM
I don't know that the ancients really had a lot of specialized ships. They seem to be more mass produced jack of all trades. They were mostly peaceful and probably didn't spend a lot of resources on military ships. They probably just had all of their ships armed with a few weapons for protection. They were powerful enough that no one else could really provide much of a threat to them and even minor weapons were sufficient as a deterrent. Sort of like how the Asgard could show up and scare off goa'uld just by reputation.

Speaking of, you know before the Protected Planets Treaty there had to have been quite a few encounteres between goa'uld and asgard ships. Enough for the goa'uld to get the idea they don't have a chance in heck at fighting them. I'd love to see one of those battles. :-)

frenchybhoy
February 23rd, 2006, 01:26 AM
My understanding of the whole ship class thing - is that the Aurora Class ships were scientific ships hence the slower hyperdrives.

This to me hints that there are other classes of Ancient ship with Intergalactic hyperdrive technolgy and bigger weapons.

Thats the reason the Aurora was months away from Atlantis when the Wraith discovered it and duped the captain into modifying the instellar hyperdrives into intergalactic.

Just a thought !

An Ancient
February 23rd, 2006, 02:01 AM
I've got a really nice idea for an Ancient fighter, like a PJ, except the drive pods come out of wing-arms that fold in half to fit through the gate, the body is narrower, octagonal in cross section, but other wise similar, since they don't need the cargo space, they can have droen racks, a small pulse weapon, bigger power source, and thus both shields and cloak.

Avatar28
February 23rd, 2006, 02:32 AM
As far a that goes, I wouldn't be surprised to see an updated version of the F-302 that has foldable wings so that it can go through the gate and then extend the wings and take off, particularly if they can give some sort of VTOL type capability, perhaps by mixing thrust vectoring with the sort of inertia drive used by the death gliders.

James_the_Wraith_Sympathiser
February 23rd, 2006, 03:21 AM
The way I see it...as civilisations evolve (both technologically and physically), their capacity and desire for war diminishes. Just look at the Nox and the Tollan, they both have no desire for war, the Tollans had powerful weapons but they were only used as defense against the Goa'uld. The Asgard also seem like a peaceful race - they are a 'friend to all', it is the threats from the replicators and Goa'uld that forced them to go to war.

I think the Ancients would follow this pattern (or more correctly, the rest of them follow the Ancients) and they would not have a military as big as that of Earth (relative to population). Remember in 'Before I Sleep', Weir says that they sent a delegation in the faint hope of negotiating with the Wraith.

So I reckon no, they did not have a large military contingent, however their technology was such that Atlantis could not be taken because of its powerful shield, and those satellite things.

pyrodude
February 23rd, 2006, 03:49 AM
I don't think that the ancients would have large military force. Considering the outpust on earth took out anubis' fleet and the ancient satalite, when fully powered, could take a number of hives. Also I can't a puddle jumper being used in large number as a fighter craft. But it would be good to see the Aurora in battle against the wraith.

Stuey1221
February 23rd, 2006, 01:53 PM
We know they can be used as fighters, but IMO i doubt thats what they were designed for...

Thats what i was thinking, its like the shields and the drones are just a form of defence and not designed for a full frontal attack

freyr's mother
February 23rd, 2006, 04:24 PM
My understanding of the whole ship class thing - is that the Aurora Class ships were scientific ships hence the slower hyperdrives.

This to me hints that there are other classes of Ancient ship with Intergalactic hyperdrive technolgy and bigger weapons.

Thats the reason the Aurora was months away from Atlantis when the Wraith discovered it and duped the captain into modifying the instellar hyperdrives into intergalactic.

Just a thought !

No, The Aurora was a military vessel that was on a Recon Mission.

siXbrownSnakes2
February 23rd, 2006, 04:59 PM
We don't 'arm' our major cities with Anti-Aircraft missiles and SAM sites, mainly because they aren't needed.. You don't see military bases scattered through out NYC, do you?

The ancients probably felt the same way, and when the war with the wraith came, they built ships like the Aurora and the Orion along with the satellites, but it wouldn't really make a difference, no matter what they built the Wraith were too many.

My money is on the drone weapon being atlantis' only defensive system along with the shield. The satellites and warships are your extra defenses.

Avatar28
February 24th, 2006, 12:02 AM
We don't 'arm' our major cities with Anti-Aircraft missiles and SAM sites, mainly because they aren't needed.. You don't see military bases scattered through out NYC, do you?

The ancients probably felt the same way, and when the war with the wraith came, they built ships like the Aurora and the Orion along with the satellites, but it wouldn't really make a difference, no matter what they built the Wraith were too many.

My money is on the drone weapon being atlantis' only defensive system along with the shield. The satellites and warships are your extra defenses.

You make a very good point and I would be inclined to agree with you. I don't think the ancients really intended their craft to be offensive but rather the weapons were intended as defense. Most races wouldn't dare to attack them, but if one did, the drones were used to quickly deal with the threat. Much like the Asgard I'm sure. That may be one reason why the O'Neill was so much more powerful than the Belsinker. The latter was a more general purpose ship and the weapons were powerful enough to act as a deterrent to the other races like the goauld. Think something like a US Coast Guard ice breaker (http://www.uscg.mil/pacarea/healy/). Part utility ship, part cargo ship, part science ship, part warship (probably need to add a few more weapons though). It's not going to be going to assaulting an enemy battle group, but it's enough to deter pirates and other undesirables. That's the Belsinker, Aurora, etc. The replicators came along and the asgard had to develop ships more dedicated to military use. The O'Neill would be more akin to a missile cruiser to the Belsinker's ice breaker.

Krendoshazin
February 24th, 2006, 01:06 AM
Considering that the Ancient Atlanteans were peaceful not sure if there would be large designations as a normal military would. I mean so far before the war with the Wraith they never had an enemy that forced them to war (we can only guess since so far we have never heard of any other enemies back then). Still, would be cool to see.
The Ancients weren't completely peacefull people, not to the point of pacifism like the Nox anyway, but they were a race that didn't like to use force but did when they felt it was necessary to do so.

The war between the Wraith and the Ancients lasted for about 100 years if I remember correctly, so no doubt they put up a good fight. For every fleet of hive ships they destroyed, more and more would be sent, it was only when they couldn't see an end to the fighting that they decided to cut their losses and return to earth. I'd like to see what they have that could of allowed them to put up such a fight for so long.

When that single outpost on earth sent thousands of drones towards Anubis' fleet of 30 motherships and cut through them like a warm knife through butter, that was a jaw dropping moment, it was great. The city is ment to be the most advanced thing the Ancients ever created, but it's not really living up to expectations right now.

They may well have had a fleet of Aurora class battleships, but the Orion isn't even at full power yet and we're yet to see what that is capable of, it has shields, a hyperdrive, and drone weapons (which are inoperable right now), so I guess we'll see on that.

Auralis
February 25th, 2006, 09:35 AM
/me wonders why the ancients not just build another dakara style device and wiped out the wraith. But i guess that would be to simple and making sense.
And after all sense is currently a very rare writers gift, so rare its basicaly nonexistant.

Prior_of_the_Ori
February 25th, 2006, 11:37 AM
Because they were peaceful and such an act would be genocide which they don't believe in? I mean thats why near the end of the conflict, they STILL wanted to make peace with the Wraith.

freyr's mother
February 25th, 2006, 01:21 PM
because they were losing the war

PG15
February 25th, 2006, 02:09 PM
/me wonders why the ancients not just build another dakara style device and wiped out the wraith. But i guess that would be to simple and making sense.
And after all sense is currently a very rare writers gift, so rare its basicaly nonexistant.

1. The Wraith were everywhere, ergo, good luck with finding a place where you can secretely build a weapon the size of a mountain.

2. Wiping out the Wraith includes wiping out their human parts. Therefore, wiping them out = wiping humans out.

The only reason wiping out the Replicators didn't do anything to us is because they were so different from us.

James_the_Wraith_Sympathiser
February 25th, 2006, 03:49 PM
That, and the fact that the device had to be tuned to wipe out the replicators only.

And yes, the Ancients were a peaceful race, we know that they sent ships in the hope of negotiating...and subsequently got pwned because the Wraith had numbers++. Maybe that was their downfall, they they were too 'enlightened' to be able to fight for their own survival and take any means necessary.

DarthNick
February 26th, 2006, 02:04 AM
I agree with every stated above, but one thing bothers me, people say the best defense is offence. So why didn't the Atlanteans attack the Wraith where it would hurt most? Their homework, shipyars etc. Those hive ships don't build them self, and Wraith don't grow on trees (i can only presume). Take out their production capabilty and use the remainder of your own fleet to take out individual Wraith ships until the wraith don't have the numbers to attack you.

After that you can said a negotiation party so settle terms

This is all speculation, perhaps the Atlanteans tried this but failed. For that to have happened i fear the Wraith must have 1000+ hive ships. Even more then the Galactic Empire from SW. If that is so, we don't stand a chance in hell to beat them..

Maltrancko
February 26th, 2006, 02:47 AM
Atlantis is a city, i would assume the ancients also had dedicated military bases like we have.

As for what would the point be other than just to see it, what is the point of watching atlantis other than entertainment.


Why would you assume that? the ancients didnt fight amongt themselves most of their history and therefore would have had no huge need to develop it until the wraith war

Prior_of_the_Ori
February 26th, 2006, 06:21 AM
I agree with every stated above, but one thing bothers me, people say the best defense is offence. So why didn't the Atlanteans attack the Wraith where it would hurt most? Their homework, shipyars etc. Those hive ships don't build them self, and Wraith don't grow on trees (i can only presume). Take out their production capabilty and use the remainder of your own fleet to take out individual Wraith ships until the wraith don't have the numbers to attack you.

After that you can said a negotiation party so settle terms

This is all speculation, perhaps the Atlanteans tried this but failed. For that to have happened i fear the Wraith must have 1000+ hive ships. Even more then the Galactic Empire from SW. If that is so, we don't stand a chance in hell to beat them..

While its true that sometimes the best defense is an offense, it might not be how the Ancients thought. They had weapons capable of killing people but they lacked..the stomach for war. Its possible that they used their technology to frighten off enemies rather then kill them. Sadly, this does not work that well against dedicated warrior people who throw themselves on the enemies guns so that their brethren can breach the defences. Speculation mind you but its possible their mindset was different then us.

Or its entirely possible that the nomadic nature of the Wraith prevented such a tactic. I mean the Hiveships are huge and those fixed bases they needed were hidden well. So far we have not seen them have a need for mining facilities like the Goa'uld used to have. The only thing they seem to harvest are humans to be used as 'food'.

Hopefully more will be learnt in the next season.

freyr's mother
February 26th, 2006, 07:25 AM
The ancients are like the asgard in the way that they are horrible tactical thinkers.

GateR_mk
February 26th, 2006, 07:54 AM
its aurora class warships

You sure about that?

From what I can telll, the class name hasn't been decided yet. right?

From what we've seen in SG-1 and SGA, the first ship in a class provides the name for that class. eg. the Odyssey is the second Daedalus class ship, however, "aurora-class" might be the HUMAN term for that line of vessel because the Aurora was the first Ancinet warship encountered SGA.

GateR_mk
February 26th, 2006, 08:09 AM
Atlantis is a city, i would assume the ancients also had dedicated military bases like we have.

As for what would the point be other than just to see it, what is the point of watching atlantis other than entertainment.

Atlantis is also a starship. She has a stardrive along with an intergalactic hyperdrive. Second, why would the Ancients need military bases? They are a peacefull people, and they had not encountered any enemies in the Pegasus Galaxy untill they found the Wraith. They seeded Pegasus with humanoid life and watched over them. They would not need military bases to watch over human life. Would they?
The only reason the Ancients armed their starships was to give them some form of self defense.

And the only reason the Ancients went to war with the Wraith was because they wrere protecting the races they created from a monster they had awakened.

Plus, when you assume you make an a$$ out of u and me!

GateR_mk
February 26th, 2006, 08:16 AM
We don't 'arm' our major cities with Anti-Aircraft missiles and SAM sites, mainly because they aren't needed.. You don't see military bases scattered through out NYC, do you?

The ancients probably felt the same way, and when the war with the wraith came, they built ships like the Aurora and the Orion along with the satellites, but it wouldn't really make a difference, no matter what they built the Wraith were too many.

My money is on the drone weapon being atlantis' only defensive system along with the shield. The satellites and warships are your extra defenses.

our major cities aren't expected to traverse galaxies and land on planets and operate independantly for hundreds of years right?

The reason our major cities do not have weapons systems is because we have a military to protect those cities. One reason that the Ancients armed their city-ships is because it wouldnt be practical to drag a military along with each ship. That would cost the Ancients a lot in resources.

GateR_mk
February 26th, 2006, 08:25 AM
Wouldn't it be great to see an ancient battle group, even if it was only a video on atlantis' database.

I would say that the o'ryan (or what ever it was called) class ships are probably destroyers.

So I would expect 4 destroyers, 2 crusiers, and a carrier in the typical battle group.

Wouldn't be great if the carrier could carry say 50+ puddle jumpers (like the hive ships).

I think the crusiers should have beam weapons like the satelite, to take on the hive ships.

The destroyers would have dones to take out the darts, and provide defensive fire for the group.


Who needs fighters when you have an intelligent, super-accurate, super speed, super powerfull weapon that can work with other of these weapons to systematiclly take out large targets?

The Puddle Jumpers act as small scout ships, shuttles, and cargo ships, that can also be used a fire-support platform if absolutely necessary.

Fighters exist because us humans need a small, agile weapons platform that can deliver surgical strikes and form a defensive screen for a larger ship. Ancient drones can do all of that without costing any AR (Ancient resources instead of HR) lol.

Wraith_Hunter
February 26th, 2006, 12:02 PM
You sure about that?

From what I can telll, the class name hasn't been decided yet. right?

From what we've seen in SG-1 and SGA, the first ship in a class provides the name for that class. eg. the Odyssey is the second Daedalus class ship, however, "aurora-class" might be the HUMAN term for that line of vessel because the Aurora was the first Ancinet warship encountered SGA.

Aurora is the ship class!

It was simply the humans that named the second one Orion, although it was originally named after an Ancient General, something like Hipperferalcus or something similar to that.