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GateWorld
January 2nd, 2006, 06:02 PM
<DIV ALIGN=CENTER><TABLE WIDTH=450 BORDER=0 CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=7><TR><TD STYLE="border:0;"><DIV ALIGN=LEFT><FONT FACE="Arial" SIZE=2 COLOR="#000000"><A HREF="http://www.gateworld.net/atlantis/s2/217.shtml"><IMG SRC="http://www.gateworld.net/atlantis/graphics/217.jpg" WIDTH=160 HEIGHT=120 ALIGN=RIGHT HSPACE=10 VSPACE=2 BORDER=0 STYLE="border: 1px black solid" ALT="Visit the Episode Guide"></A><FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#888888">ATLANTIS SEASON TWO</FONT>
<FONT SIZE=4><A HREF="http://www.gateworld.net/atlantis/s2/217.shtml" STYLE="text-decoration: none"><B>COUP D'ETAT</B></A></FONT>
<FONT SIZE=1>EPISODE NUMBER - 217</FONT>
<IMG SRC="/images/clear.gif" WIDTH=1 HEIGHT=10 ALT="">
After a team from Atlantis goes missing, the expedition finds itself in the middle of a Genii coup.

<FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#888888"><B><A HREF="http://www.gateworld.net/atlantis/s2/217.shtml">VISIT THE EPISODE GUIDE >></A></B>
SPOILERS! PHOTOS! AND MORE!</FONT></FONT></DIV></TD></TR></TABLE></DIV>

TOA
January 9th, 2006, 04:46 PM
Without spoilers...

Thus far this episode is THE episode to beat this season. For those that havent been spoiler ho's it will be a nice ride!!

AWESOME EP!!! And definitely much better than anything since "critical mass" (err not grace under pressure)

Taonas
January 9th, 2006, 05:01 PM
Without spoilers...

Thus far this episode is THE episode to beat this season. For those that havent been spoiler ho's it will be a nice ride!!

AWESOME EP!!! And definitely much better than anything since "critical mass" (err not grace under pressure)
It was a really good episode and in a sense was a team episode... Well, kinda.

Anyway, right now I'm not in the best of moods, so my full and actual review will come later.

SmallTimePerson
January 9th, 2006, 05:04 PM
this seemed like it would be a good ep from the spoilers. Any1 seen it that will give a review please?

TOA
January 9th, 2006, 05:31 PM
Ok so here goes...

The episode is great - as in it actually works unlike many of the episodes post "lost boys". The sets are good to excellent, and the genii are all genii like.

I would say this episode is the best one since Critical Mass and in some ways is a better story.

Mini Summery is as follows:
- One of the off world teams is under fire on a planet which was being assisted by an Earth agriculture specialist.

John & the gang go in to get them out, but only the lone scientist is left. The house they had been in is burned out. Upon investigation they find the other team dead in the house.

They bring the bodies back and then the gate activates "Unscheduled off world activation" (everyone drink 2 shots) and when no idc (2 more for prosperity) is sent the gate guy realizes that a narrow band UHF signal with audio video is present.

Up pops genii scientist guy, and proposes a trade for a new ZPM in exchange for some light weapons. He explains he wants to get the genii leader (colm Meeney - cant remember his characters name). After much hestiation they split Johns team - Teyla and the big R go off in search of answers for the dead team members and John & Mckay go grab scientist guy.

Team TR:
Back on the poor planet Teyla and Ronon investigate the villagers and realize they are all acting really strangely - very guarded. When they press a bartender (everyone drink) he states they are being watched and wont talk.

They start back to the gate when the bartenders wife/daughter/friend/employee... approaches and "returns Teylas lost pouch"

Upon investigation they realize that it contains photos of the missing atlantis team members along with John & Mckay. Hmmmmmm.... Fishy....

Team Kirk:

Meanwhile Weir and John decide to follow the better the devil you know method - so they goto the Genii home world and warn Colm Meeney. He lets them go.

Upon return they scout the planet where genii scientist guy is and realize that Colm was accurate so they decide to take the trade, but trick the scientist guy to steal back their zpm.(thinking its the one from the brotherhood) (Remember: My Name is Earl : Karma!!!)

They grab 12 genii prisoners while they trick and trade with the scientist guy.

Its realized that all the genii prisoners (which I forgot to mention above prior to going to the planet) all have some type of cancer from poor sheilding used on Genii nuclear weapons. Beckett realizes he can save 8 or so of the 12 prisoners, including scientist guys somewhat attractive younger sister.. Hmmm I wonder when she'll be back...... (see season 3 for details :) NEWAYS..

Beckett starts the healing thing.

So John goes off with Mckay and some others (knowing Mckay is super soldier) to take out the remaining few genii on the planet. The capture them all but when they surround scientist guy in a small warehouse he hits them with knock out gas... leading to:

Team TR:

Back on atlantis we now know that the missing people arent dead just missing. And the photos were actually "wanted: big reward" - we are also told (obvious point) that all the folks in the photos have the ATA gene.

They cant get hold of john (hes been nocked out after all). And weir starts worrying.


Team Kirk:

John wakes up and lo and behold Colm is there. They explain they want puddle jumpers... So using Johns walkie talky they contact were and say they want all the PJ's. Then Johns takin to the cell where all the others are - including Mckay and the presumed dead team members.

John tells scientist guy that the pj's are useless to the genii because they dont have the gene. Scientist guy has been drawing samples from all the atlantis folks and is actively working on gene therapy for the genii. (hmm I wonder if this will crop up in season 3.....)

...

In either case Weir refuses so Colm orders scientist guy to kill John. John explains Beckett can save scientist guys sister, so scientist guy orders John free.

Turns out he really was planning a coup. Theres a nuke under the building and scientist guy was using John & the earthers all the time to trick Colm into a trap and be able to kill all those oposing him.

They escape - Colm is nuked, Kolya is missing (the whole episode... too bad I liked him), Scientist guy is reunited with his sister (who had a TOOMAR).

The lantian's (ie earth folks) agree to help the new genii leader heal all those aflicted with radiation poisoning provided their are no further deaths (which apparently there arent).

The End..

Oh the ZPM was actually found on the Genii homeworld in their archives... Its depleted.. <SIGH>



Overall a great episode and a nice lead in to the final 3.

Next monday: Michael.!!!

Taonas
January 9th, 2006, 05:47 PM
There is one thing that I found odd... It was the only thing that bugged me about the episode.... What was with the new uniforms for Cowen and his guard? Did he really go power-hungry or was that part of the coup/not-coup/coup?

smushybird
January 9th, 2006, 05:55 PM
Thank you for the summary! It does sound really good, and like it had a lot of opportunity for some Sheppard-McKay banter. :)

SmallTimePerson
January 9th, 2006, 06:24 PM
TOA you call that a mini summary?
thanks for the summary.

(knowing Mckay is super soldier) especially after his little fight in the hive slapping the guard lol

Merlin_Ancient
January 9th, 2006, 06:29 PM
Yes the episode was awsome.

TOA
January 9th, 2006, 06:32 PM
There is one thing that I found odd... It was the only thing that bugged me about the episode.... What was with the new uniforms for Cowen and his guard? Did he really go power-hungry or was that part of the coup/not-coup/coup?


I honestly think that scientist guy was honest about that. It really seems that the genii as individuals still have a decent moral center, but it also appears that the old addage of "power corrupts" is true.

At this point excepting that one culture protected by the wraith the genii are the most advanced surviving culture in pegasus. Almost all the others (excluding Ronons, which are now gone) are agrarian(farmers) and not industrial. This is a substantial disadvantage compared to a post-industrial dictatorship such as the genii.

Cowens government was undoubtably untrustworthy. They had absolutely no morals - basically they would destroy anyone and anything in order to obtain their goal. The fact that Cowan was so concerned about getting puddle jumpers really makes you wonder. If Earth had utilized even non-ancient technology they could have wiped the genii out without a problem. (ie Daedalues or Prometheus could wipe out the planet from orbit) Yet we havent. The Genii are really the counter balance to earth in this case, and are really there to show just what could happen in cases where immature cultures advance technologically more quickly than socially. To quote the Asgard - The Genii "are simply much too young" to be out and about in the galaxy.

TOA
January 9th, 2006, 06:34 PM
TOA you call that a mini summary?
thanks for the summary.
especially after his little fight in the hive slapping the guard lol

Lol you should have seen my last one - it was like 5 pages...


Mini - all in the eye of the beholder :)

BTW: Sorry no Mckay / John fighting -- err well not alot anyways... Inleast not to the major level that it occasionally gets to.. A little bit though..

Lexa Jayde
January 9th, 2006, 08:08 PM
thanks for the reviews... you guys are great for me... i am a spoiler nut!!! :P:P:P:P

Liverpool_chicK
January 9th, 2006, 09:05 PM
I liked it. I admit I have been somewhat disappointed in the this season, but this brought back the joy of watching SGA. It had my hold throughout the whole episode and was actually a really good one... There really was no over bearing character, that I was ready to shot 5 minutes into the show, even McKay was toned down abit... It was nice to see an old foe and to see how that relationship has developed off screen.
All in all, I give it 3 3/4 stars out of 5.

shockwave
January 10th, 2006, 01:59 AM
it was a good episode, not the best one that was critical mass
but certainly one of the best eps of the season (there weren't many good ones)

shockwave
January 10th, 2006, 02:01 AM
good ep
nice to see chief o'brian again
has kolya really disappeared?
also nice to see ladon, a minor character from the storm/eye again, in expanded role.

caty
January 10th, 2006, 02:22 AM
I loved this episode! The quality of SGA has finally returned with the last two episodes... I couldn't be more excited :weiranime17:
it worked out from the beginning to the end and - although it was somehow predictable - left you wanting more...

I really like the team episodes where everybody gets about equally as much screen time. They are a team and they compliment each other. TPTB should really use that more often.

And although I really love McKay, it stands out that all the good episodes this season (IMHO) weren't exactly McKay centered. That oughta tell me something...

I'll have to go back and watch the episode again, but these were the moments that stood out to me:

- Sheppard's attitude when Ladon calls him an errand boy. That was hilarious. (-->"It's Lieutenant Colonel errand boy to you, Ladon")
- McKay being in the "strike team" :mckayanime17:
- Major Lorne hasn't been red-shirted yet
- Sheppard telling McKay that he'd tell Cowen to kill McKay and let himself go in case they were captured...

Can't think of any more right now, but I'm still amazed...

Qasim
January 10th, 2006, 02:51 AM
It was ok

leaper
January 10th, 2006, 03:46 AM
yep...I concur..everything is again right with the universe. An episode that brought it all back to the way it's supposed to be, in my opinion. This episode certainly going to keep me happy all week.....

xfkirsten
January 10th, 2006, 03:59 AM
I thought this one was great. I'm a big sucker for the Genii, though, so I was just happy to see a story with them! They caught me off guard with the fake-coup-is-really-a-real-coup thing. The fallout from this one will definitely be interesting, though. Now that Leyden's in charge (and has at least outwardly shown a truce with the Lanteans) could they eventually have a new ally? I mean, at least, for the meantime, Atlantis has some of the Genii and I don't see Leyden sacrificing the sister he was so determined to save by aggravating the Lanteans. Or will things go south when the Genii people return home? Leyden came across to me as pretty genuine in the end there.

And visual symbolism got me wondering... I did notice that Weir dressed primarily in black this episode, with only her normal red shirt underneath. The writers, Torri, they've all been talking about Liz's change to a "darker" side. Is the black clothes an outward symbol of that change? From a Weir character standpoint, this episode was BIG. I mean, it was so blink-and-you'll-miss-it that I didn't even realize it til after the episode ended. But she loudly threatened war. Liz. Threatened war. She never would have done that a season ago, with all her ideals of peace and negotiation. Definitely getting darker for her.

Cynicat
January 10th, 2006, 04:17 AM
Damn that was fun! :D
A nice, tight story, that actually held together from begining to end (instead of loosing the plot somewhere around the middle like previous episodes) with some great team banter, and a decent role for Teyla and Ronon. Leyden is an interesting character, it'll be interesting to see if he returns and gets fleshed out a little more. Weir was definately more proactive this episode, from her "go get us a ZPM" greenlight to McKay and Shep, to her (as xfkirsten said) threat of outright war against the Genii. Go Weir! :D

The sets were rather spiffy, especially parts to the warehouse, and some great aging on that Genii tunnel. The village exterior looked like a redress of the village from SG-1's "Ties That Bind".

- Poor TechChuck still doesn't have a name *pets him*
- The "wanted posters" were very cute
- Yay team TR! Out there doing their good cop :teylaanime03: /bad cop :ronon: shtick
- Ronan getting a little snarky with Dr...
- Damn, Beckett looks fine in scrubs...
- And Weir looked lovely in the red shirt/plain black jacket combo.
- Not to mention Teyla's fetching new outfit, blue is a lovely colour on her.
- Looks like McKay has pulled Shep into his GTZPM tendencies, they were both so little-kid excited when explaining their plan to Weir
- Shep gets a nice headshot on his wanted poster, but McKay is all unflatteringly squinty - poor thing LOL
- SWAT McKay was hilarious, he was trying so hard. His immediate drop-to-knees and faceplant-the-concrete when gassed was great too :)
- Sheppard's "Shield up" *BOOM*, was very spiffy :D


Great quotes:

Leyden : "...I have defected from the Genii."
Weir: "Well, good luck with that."

McKay: "We might even be able to light up the engines, and get the city to fly."
Shep: "...really?"
McKay: "Well, no... but we still need it."
"...How stupid do you think I am?"

Shep (channelling Mal Reynolds): "From what I remember, I gave you a pretty good crack on the head last time we met, guess I was kinda hoping it made you simple."
Leyden : "No, it didn't... but ever since then I've been plagued with headaches."
Shep: "Aww, you're just sayin' that to be nice..."

Leyden : "I'm not interested in talking to the errand boy."
Shep: "That's Lt Colonel Errand Boy, to you."

Shep outlines his raid plan to Weir,
Weir: "Good thinking."
Shep: "Coulda been Mensa."

The whole "I'll bargain your life for mine" exchange between Shep and McKay LMAO

McKay: "See how I almost stunned that guy?"
Shep: "Must've missed it"
McKay: "Yeah, but if he was just a step to the right I'd've stunned him for sure!"

McKay:"One tango, middle of the room"
Shep: *blank stare*
McKay:"What, isn't that right?"
Shep: *Eyebrow Of Doom*

McKay: "We in some sort of trouble?
Shep: "Was it the gas or the prison cell that was your first clue?"

Domesticated Equine
January 10th, 2006, 05:14 AM
Wow, that was actually a good episode.

Pros:

- Unlike in the last episode, this time the Atlantis team tried to be cautious and use their brains. For example they didn't answer Lleyton before they realised he knew Atlantis survived, they didn't just let him into the city without checking him out first and they sent a MALP through first when they went to meet him.

- I liked the plot, it was quite believable and I didn't see the final twist coming.

- The Geni leader is more effective as a bad guy then all the wraith put together as he actually does something else than hiss and drool. I cared enough about him as a character to dislike him and be happy when he was blown out.

- I really liked Beckett's scene with Lleyton's sister. Mcgillion was nice in this one and I really got that Beckett's first priority is to save lives and leave politics to others. This was a nice line:
- "Why? Why would you help us?
- "Because I'm a doctor, that's what I do."
In summary, that was a nice character scene which are worth more to me than a thousand space battles.

- Just wanted to mention a line I thought was funny and not out of place. This was when McKay woke up in the prison cell:
-"Are we in some sort of trouble?"
-"Was it the gas or the prison cell that was your first clue?"

- It was nice to get an episode that wasn't just a one-off. Continuity is greatly appreciated and it will interesting to see how the Geni storyline will play out in the future.


Cons:

- I'm still unimpressed by Luttrell's and Momoa's acting and their subplot left me a bit cold. I was happy to see the plot lines converge, however.

- I wouldn't have trusted the Geni myself but I can see how the Atlantian expedition would want to believe in their good side and hope to get another ally.

- Weir's "Go get us a ZPM." felt too cheerful. She was giving the go-ahead to a morally ambiguous and potentially dangerous mission, I would have preferred a more serious tone.

- What was McKay doing in the strike team? Could no one else have used the life-sign detector?

- The weakest point of the plot was how easily the strike force was overcome by the Geni. Was everyone in the gas room and was no one guarding the stunned Geni soldiers? Anyway, this is something I can overlook, maybe the Geni soldiers that gated in later overpowered the rest.


All in all, this was a good episode and my favourite from the second half of the season. I'd still need more character development and emotional impact to label this as a great episode, but if Atlantis stays at this level I'll be quite happy.

***½ / *****

LurkerLa
January 10th, 2006, 06:58 AM
I know this has been mentioned before but this

Weir: Good thinking.
Sheppard: Coulda been Mensa.

just tickled me pink 'cause I love that his whole Mensa thing wasn't just forgotten. Yay! :D

Also, I really liked Ladon's sister, but I'm not quite sure why... I mean, not that there was a reason to dislike her, just that I don't know why she's standing out to me so much.

Yeah, pointless post. :o

Yeade
January 10th, 2006, 08:45 AM
What was McKay doing in the strike team? Could no one else have used the life-sign detector?I haven't watched the episode yet but wanted to give this one a crack. Hope you don't mind. :o :)

McKay goes with the strike force because he's on Sheppard's team and him being a scientist doesn't matter. This traces all the way back to "Suspicion," at the end of which McKay voluntarily joins the attempt to capture a Wraith prisoner even though he's pretty damn scared. Sheppard will refuse to take McKay on dangerous missions if he doesn't have much support (e.g. "The Defiant One," "Instinct") but otherwise he encourages McKay to get out in the field. In fact, McKay had probably never handled a weapon before coming to Atlantis--thus his occasional fumbles under fire--and I bet Sheppard taught him how.

This may not make much sense to us, but I think it's a reflection of just how dangerous it can get in Pegasus.

Atlantis is still a predominately civilian mission in S2, with at most maybe an undersized battalion of Marines to protect more than 200 scientists. In S1, there was even less of a military presence--an undersized company, perhaps, of 50 or so.

What this means is that the scientists are going to be out on the front lines, and the military will not always be able to protect or save them if it comes to violence. The civilians can't afford to think like they're civilians.

I suspect the entire expedition has been given at least basic weapons training--both Gaul and Abrams were armed, though neither would be winning any marksmanship awards if they were still alive; Beckett has done his stints as a makeshift soldier; scientists were being armed in Siege II--and the most enterprising among them, the ones that go routinely off-world, would probably be dragged on other missions for training whether they want to go or not. McKay--the brave little toaster!--wants to go. <3

Of course, all this is fairly standard practice with lead characters, but I was trying to stick to in-universe explanations. ;)

Jeffer
January 10th, 2006, 08:57 AM
i really enjoyed that ep Rodney was funny when he was talking to shep

Rodney: Sheepard did you see that i almost shot that guy like if he was standing a foot to the left i would have shot him
Shep: no i was a little busy

Not and exact quote but close enough

LoveYouBaby
January 10th, 2006, 08:59 AM
I can't believe the Major is dead :(

Lorne is gone.. I liked that character!

Jeffer
January 10th, 2006, 09:05 AM
Your info is wrong hes not dead just missing

and i also like Ronon when he found out he wasn't on the list

Ronon: who doesn't think i'm a threat give me a few min with them i'll change there mind.

and then wanted to take on the whole Gneii force

LoveYouBaby
January 10th, 2006, 09:06 AM
Yeah, just found out LOL

I really should watch the entire episode first...

Domesticated Equine
January 10th, 2006, 09:06 AM
I can't believe the Major is dead :(

Lorne is gone.. I liked that character!

He looked somewhat alive by the end of the episode to me. Good thing they didn't kill him off.

caty
January 10th, 2006, 09:07 AM
I can't believe the Major is dead :(

Lorne is gone.. I liked that character!
You haven't watched the episode, have you?

Quinn Mallory
January 10th, 2006, 09:38 AM
Great episode.

Love how they put Lorne in that ambiguous spot of being possibly dead. Had it been one of the main characters (or even Zelenka), then we wouldn't have believed it at all.

The overall plot was quite good, although I would have to agree with another post earlier that I would've expected more of a conflict within Weir for doing something this morally ambiguous such as sending in the strike team. McKay also had no business of being on the strike team as well as the coincidence that most of the strike team happened to possess the gene (however, this do sort of make sense in that the Atlantis expedition would consist of the scientists who are there more because of their skills then genes...although they may had gone with another doctor had Beckett not had the gene; while the military types are more likely to be selected because they had the gene or successful gene therapy). This also post the question of what percentage of the current Atlantis expedition has the gene. I would have expected many more photos then those in the bag but I guess the Genii intelligence hasn't got the chance to figure out all the gene possesser. Additionally, the Atlantis team would have valued all their members equally, not just those with the gene, but I guess the Genii don't quite think that way.

Still, this was a suspenseful episode. I'm sad to see that Colm Meaney will likely be gone from the SGA universe, however. Finally, what's the with the look that Weir gave to Sheppard at the end?

Yeade
January 10th, 2006, 09:56 AM
For reference: Aithine's List of SGA Earth Personnel (http://www.aithine.org/sga/sga-earth-personnel.htm).
I would have expected many more photos then those in the bag but I guess the Genii intelligence hasn't got the chance to figure out all the gene possesser.Again, I haven't seen the episode, but I would expect the Genii to know more of the military gene carriers. There may be many scientists who also have the gene, but unless all these people are going off-world and flying jumpers or otherwise using identifiable Ancient tech, the Genii would have no way to know.

LoveYouBaby
January 10th, 2006, 09:59 AM
You haven't watched the episode, have you?

Near the end of the episode now.

LoveYouBaby
January 10th, 2006, 10:08 AM
Well this episode was pretty cool, hopefully the Genii are not going to hinder Atlantis' future efforts and Weir looks totally hot in that new black jacket of hers - of course, of course, good to see the Major alive and well, the entire team and yeah, that's it.

IMO, worths a 7/8

the dancer of spaz
January 10th, 2006, 10:11 AM
Near the end of the episode now.

OMG! :tealcanime22: That guy was pretty cool (and cute)! If he's really dead, then TPTB are gonna hear an earful from the Love Lorne peeps. :sheppardanime32: I miss him already... Is he really dead? And, btw, thanks for the summaries, guys. I'm a spoiler whore. ;)

Oh, and one question for those who saw the ep:

On a scale of 1 to 10, how isolated would you say Team TR were from the others?

I'm not so much a fan of their team being split up into the Sheppard/McKay Comedy Troupe and The Hot Aliens - Are They or Aren't They? Coupling. That's kind of a bummer, imo. :S

GatetheWay
January 10th, 2006, 10:32 AM
Lorne's alive! :) Yet, still doesn't have a first name. :(

OrangeSwirl
January 10th, 2006, 10:37 AM
found a cute recap on Coup.. clickie linkie for funniness...
http://www.livejournal.com/users/mspooh/93307.html?view=680315#t680315

GatetheWay
January 10th, 2006, 10:45 AM
I cannot believe Elizabeth forgot about Lorne till Sheppard reminded her to send a team to investigate. :mad:

I wonder if TPTB ever had an intent to kill Lorne.

rexpop
January 10th, 2006, 10:46 AM
A great episode that has restored my faith that the SGA writers can construct a n episode with character, compelling plot, action and humor that fits nicely into 42 minutes. Well done.

Nice to see Wier getting a new jacket. Looks much better than the usual uniform and makes her stand out among the other non military types.

Speaking of military types. Did anybody else notice that on of the soldiers in the gateroom had a British flag patch on. I guess the security team on Atlantis is now also multi-national rather than just USAF and Marines.

starfox
January 10th, 2006, 11:09 AM
Raise your hand if you didn't actually believe Lorne was dead.
The bodies were a nice touch by the Genii, though.

Props to Ryan Robbins. He did a good job as Ladon, and I loved the moment where he was just sitting in the middle of the room, eating his fruit.
And tossing the knife away! "Feel safer now?" Great moment.

There was a battle of the bad-asses between Cowan and Laydon. Cowan was in the lead with his "I don't care" in reference to his people, but Ladon won with the nuke. Shield up, hear the impact, brief look, keep walking? So perfect.

Random Cowan moment. "I just don't know how I'll be able to live with myself." He's so evil.

Kind of disappointed that Weir didn't immediately realize that the Genii had sent out the wanted posters. After all, how many other races knew about the ATA gene?

Minor problem with "Lieutenant Colonel errand boy to you." Which means nothing to Ladon. Yeah, we can't have them calling him by the wrong rank, but still, it grated a bit.

Loved Carson in this ep.

I didn't see the depleted ZPM coming, that was a good move.

Loved Teyla's shirt & hair when she was interrogating the villagers. She looked very cute.

Ronon putting his arm around the barkeep, the physical intimidation? Oh, I loved that so much.

"You're just saying that to be nice." One of the greatest Shep-lines ever. *Gives JF cyber-hug for great delivery* I also love how Joe went from friendly-face to business-face; it worked well.

How did Weir not mention to Shep that the dead in the infirmary weren't his men? He said he thought Lorne and his men were dead in the end, but Weir, Teyla, and Ronon all knew that the charred bodies were fakes about 11 minutes into the ep.


Loved the Shep-Lorne reunion.
"Way to be alive."
"Thanks, sir. So, uh, you come to rescue us?"
"Until about a moment ago I thought you were dead, but now that I see you speaking and breathing, yeah, I'm thinkin' about it."
"Good. Lemme know if there's anything we can do to help."

I love Lorne so much. His tone right there was so perfect. It just said, "Yep. That's my CO."

"You forget I'm the chief scientist. I made it." And Sheppard starts watching McKay a little more closely.

I kept on thinking about Russian history when watching this ep. I need to go back and read up on the Revolution.

The shots of the nuclear blast were well done.

Oh Weir, condoning coups and working with new revolutionary governments. Where oh where is your character going to be by the end of this season?


ETA: *tackle-hugs Martin Gero for writing this ep* Martin, you're my favorite.

OrangeSwirl
January 10th, 2006, 11:14 AM
I cannot believe Elizabeth forgot about Lorne till Sheppard reminded her to send a rescue team. :mad:

I wonder if TPTB ever had an intent to kill Lorne.

What? how can u simply forget the prettines that is Lorne... :rolleyes:

TOA
January 10th, 2006, 12:00 PM
For reference: Aithine's List of SGA Earth Personnel (http://www.aithine.org/sga/sga-earth-personnel.htm).

Again, I haven't seen the episode, but I would expect the Genii to know more of the military gene carriers. There may be many scientists who also have the gene, but unless all these people are going off-world and flying jumpers or otherwise using identifiable Ancient tech, the Genii would have no way to know.


Thats a great point and something I missed... How the hell did the genii know who had the ability to utilize ancient tech?

dark_faith
January 10th, 2006, 12:01 PM
"Hallowed is Martin Gero"

Geez is he the only writer capable of writing a good episode?

My two faves ep were Duet and now Coup d'Etat.... looks like this guy is the only one who really enjoys writing for the show! ( he's pretty new, maybe the only one who's passionate about his job?)
the characters are all great, it's fun, there is a lot of continuity, the plot is full of surprises ( except that, of course we knew Sheppard wouldn't be killed)

Thank you Martin! you're my only hope!

Looking forward to "Allies" now.

the dancer of spaz
January 10th, 2006, 12:25 PM
Lorne's alive! :) Yet, still doesn't have a first name. :(

Yay! He's alive! :D Let's call him "Chad." Major Chad Lorne. :)

GatetheWay
January 10th, 2006, 12:29 PM
Well, I ment a canon first name. The LoveLornes voted for the name Marcus a long time ago. Major Marcus Lorne!

Yeade
January 10th, 2006, 12:47 PM
How the hell did the genii know who had the ability to utilize ancient tech?Well. The Genii first found out about the ATA gene in "The Storm." While Atlantis may have been presumed destroyed for a bit after "The Eye," that happy fiction was blown apart the moment the extensive Genii spy network--alluded to in "The Siege" and shown more explicitly in "The Lost Boys"--started catching Atlantis teams off-world. By "The Brotherhood," it was probably standard practice for the Genii to tail the Atlanteans whenever possible.

I assume the Genii eventually put two and two together and realized that both the jumpers and the life signs detector--which Cowen personally handled in "Underground," with McKay complaining all the while about it being delicate technology--required the ATA gene. The nukes-and-jumpers plan was obviously inspired by what Weir told them of the siege and, from there, it was simply a matter of observing Atlantis off-world teams and noting who did the piloting and who used the life signs detector.

This could also be the events of "The Tower" coming back to haunt the expedition. If it seems too far a stretch to believe the Genii could figure out what was Ancient technology and what wasn't.Specifically, if the Genii had spies on that planet who had never been privy to the secrets of the Lord Protector but who followed the Atlanteans when they arrived and, in the wake of all the excitement, were able to gather intel about what happened. Supposing the royal court was in chaos after Otho's death, a few good contacts and well placed questions might have made it clear that the Tower and most of the doohickeys in it were Ancient.
OR the Genii have successfully secured a spy in Atlantis. This would be an interesting angle to play, but I'm not sure how it'd work. What would the Genii have to offer that would entice anyone from Earth or an Athosian into the dangerous profession of selling out Atlantis? Besides, there doesn't seem to be nearly enough intelligence to suspect an inside source.


edit: tags

caty
January 10th, 2006, 12:52 PM
Well, I ment a canon first name the LoveLornes voted for the name Marcus a long time ago. Major Marcus Lorne!
How funny, I was under the impression that was his real first name... It sure has a lot of fans out there, that name..
I like the guy, too.. His humor is sarcastic, kinda like Sheppards and when they talk, it's hilarious... (They haven't really talked much apart from today)..

Anyway, I just watched it again and have another thing to point out that nobody has mentioned yet.

How stupid is Cowen? He came across really simple-minded. I'm especially talking about the scene when they talk to Sheppard after he wakes up.
He has the radio in his hands, looks at it as if he was somehow amazed and doesn't know how to turn it on, and hands it to Ladon who immediately knows how it works.. Not very bright, that man...:weiranime34:

Merlin7
January 10th, 2006, 01:24 PM
I really enjoyed the ep. Great McShep. I've been missing that.

Great lines for Shep, great delivery by Joe.

Loved Ronon being upset at NOT being on a wanted poster.

Loved the Lorne and Shep moment. As mentioned before. Weir didn't tell Shep they were alive? WHAT UP WITH THAT?

I'm surprised Shep opened the box, but I guess it's that TRUST issue thing. Heh.

I really enjoyed seeing Shep and Weir working together, and the tag. It's a joy to see a man and a woman working together as friends and leaders. No romance. No drama. Just true friends. I love it.

Laughed alot at the "That's Lt. Col errand boy to you"

Also giggled at the "Could have been mensa" Nice bit of continuity. Wonder what Shep's IQ is. Bet Rodney has asked.

Enjoyable ep all around. For once it didn't feel RUSHED because there was no B storyline really. Everything every character was involved in dealt with the same issue. Those eps always work best. We need more of those.

the dancer of spaz
January 10th, 2006, 01:28 PM
Well, I ment a canon first name the LoveLornes voted for the name Marcus a long time ago. Major Marcus Lorne!

Awww, I liked "Chad." :P Hahaha, it'd be a riot if TPTB made "Marcus" his name next season. :D

The Engineer
January 10th, 2006, 01:35 PM
I loved this episode, kudos to TPTB. Coup d'Etat is second best for me from season 2 after Aurora.
I also like the fact tha Lorne did not end up like Grodin, dead.



- Major Lorne hasn't been red-shirted yet

Is that a Star Trek allusion via Lost?

NowIWillDestroyAbydos
January 10th, 2006, 01:56 PM
It was a good ep. A **, I give. I happy Lorne didn't die, he's cool.

Easter Lily
January 10th, 2006, 02:19 PM
A coup that wasn't a coup that was a coup...
That was fun.
Now, that's what I call good writing... Yay for Martin Gero... May he and Carl Binder write ALL of Season 3's episodes!
It had everything that makes for a good Stargate episode... team interaction, humour, tight storytelling, intriguing and even a rare thing... a TWIST for good measure. Watch me if I don't faint from disbelief...
Something of the edge of Season 1 returned and hopefully it stays... For a moment there I was actually worried, I really had no idea how Sheppard was going to get out of this one. This one was comparable to Critical Mass but in all ways was much better and a lot tighter with a lot less of that dumbing down that we've been seeing lately.

The Genii are a far more interesting adversary... hope we see them again... It won't be too long before another one of them gets up to their old tricks. I hope.

Like some people, I did wonder why Rodney was in the strike team but I rationalized that it had something to do with the ZPM and he being the chief scientist... and he just had to be there. :mckay09:

Quote of the Day:
"It's Lt Col errand boy to you" :sheppardanime23:

Cynicat
January 10th, 2006, 02:47 PM
A lot a people have been mentioning that Weir didn't tell Sheppard about Lorne and his men still being alive - the way I saw it, she probably did tell him that the crispy critters in the morgue weren't them, but they had been abducted by forces unknown, giving Sheppard reason to assume that they were dead anyway.

Something I noticed, while Sheppard was tied up and speaking with Cowen & Leyden, there's someone wandering around outside. The window is dirty, so you can't tell if it's a patrolling Genii, or loitering crew, but IMO they don't move like a soldier on patrol. Here's a screencap, the figure in question is in the window right in front of Sheppard's face:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v719/Cynicat/CDT_whodat.jpg

Cpn. Chris(tine) Bowman
January 10th, 2006, 04:55 PM
I didn't catch the last few lines between Sheppard and Weir at the end of the episode. Could someone tell me what they were please?

:)

Good episode :) Always happy when Ronon and Teyla work together :D

Mackan
January 10th, 2006, 06:30 PM
It was good, but this ep didnt contribute anything to the war with the wraith, or anything with exploring Atlantis. And in last ep Ronon was shot, and in this ep nothing was mentioned and he was fully recovered.

IMForeman
January 10th, 2006, 06:46 PM
Great episode. Kept me guessing the whole time. Though, when they said Kolya was presumed dead, I couldn't help but say "I don't think so!" I get the impression he's pulling the strings on this. I doubt Leyden came up with this all on his own.

-IMF

Ouroboros
January 10th, 2006, 07:00 PM
This was easily the best episode in a long time for the show. Great plot with plenty of twists and turns great new chracter in Laiden and some more nice content on the Genii and an update on how they're progressing.

I'm Kinda sad evil O'brien's dead but Laiden seems more than able to fill the spot. I'm looking forward to seeing him more in the future. Why can't we get Wraith characters this interesting or this clever? Laiden was a badguy with actual brains and he even won in the end. Even Cowen was smart here, he only lost because Laiden was just that much smarter. No one was really caught acting stupid here, even the SGA team didn't really have a choice but to try and get that ZPM.

There were also no plot holes, and no deux ex machinas used to resolve problems! Ok maybe the nuke was a bit of one but I completely bought it that Laiden would be able to pull that off given his position.

The B plot with Teyla and Ronan was also interesting, especially when it tied into the main plot at the end.

Hot damn this is the kind of episode I want to see more of.

10/10

xfkirsten
January 10th, 2006, 07:01 PM
Great episode. Kept me guessing the whole time. Though, when they said Kolya was presumed dead, I couldn't help but say "I don't think so!" I get the impression he's pulling the strings on this. I doubt Leyden came up with this all on his own.

-IMF

I'd have to agree here a bit. I don't know if he's neccessarily pulling strings on this one, but I certainly don't think he's dead. They made it a point of repeatedly mentioning the "suspected" death, which leads me to believe that's he's very much alive somewhere - and probably very bitter.

watcher652
January 10th, 2006, 07:22 PM
I didn't catch the last few lines between Sheppard and Weir at the end of the episode. Could someone tell me what they were please?

Even though this is a spoiler thread, I don't know what the rules are for posting large chunks of dialog, so I put in the spoiler tags just to be safe.

(Sheppard walks into Weir's office)
SHEPPARD: The coup was successful. Ladon Radim is the new leader of the Genii.
WEIR: Wow, that was fast.
SHEPPARD: Well, once people found out that Cowen and his elite guard were out of the picture, his loyalists laid down their weapons. They're billing it as a bloodless coup because no one died on their home soil.
WEIR: So a nuclear explosion and the lives of an entire battalion of men don't count?
SHEPPARD: Well, it's all spin. What do you think the fallout's going to be?
WEIR: Well, historically, most coups end up with the new government being as bad as the old one.
SHEPPARD: I don't know. He seemed pretty grateful when we saved his sister.
WEIR: There's that.
SHEPPARD: He did save me and my team.
WEIR: There's that, too.
SHEPPARD: So I say we call it a win.
WEIR: Who's spinning now?
SHEPPARD: All right. Then I say we call it a night.
WEIR: That we can do.

watcher652
January 10th, 2006, 07:30 PM
It was good, but this ep didnt contribute anything to the war with the wraith, or anything with exploring Atlantis.It did contribute to the war with the Wraith in that Ladon seems to be more willing to work together with the Atlantians against the Wraith. That's a pretty big deal since so far the Genii seemed to one of the more advanced worlds. Ladon was talking about gene therapy and from what we've seem so far, that's pretty advanced scientifically for the Pegasus galaxy.


And in last ep Ronon was shot, and in this ep nothing was mentioned and he was fully recovered.We can presume that enough time has passed that it doesn't have to be mentioned. Many missions could have occurred between last week's episode and this.

Wick
January 10th, 2006, 07:35 PM
Where was the Dedalus it could have just beamed Shepard and the other hostages up.

macktheknife
January 10th, 2006, 08:21 PM
Speaking of military types. Did anybody else notice that on of the soldiers in the gateroom had a British flag patch on. I guess the security team on Atlantis is now also multi-national rather than just USAF and Marines.

There's been a couple of military guys who have a 1 south african and 1 Zimbabwean patch on since the start of the show (I'm sure he was in Rising), so maybe they are people who use the patch of the country they were born in or something.

ToasterOnFire
January 10th, 2006, 08:24 PM
I think this was the best episode in the second half of the season, easily edging out Critical Mass. If only all of the episodes could be like this!

-Ladon (Laiden? Layden?) made this episode, hands down. His arrogance, determination, and cool head all worked. PTB, please make every effort to have him return! :)

-The twists and turns in the plot were well done. I was never sure which side of the Genii was the "true" enemy, and when Ladon seemed to join with Cowen I was certain that was the final twist. Having Ladon go ahead with the coup in the end was pleasantly unexpected.

-The pacing seemed better in this episode than in other recent ones - the ending didn't feel rushed and all the plotlines didn't feel like they were cramping each other.

-No mention of the Deddy, presumably because it's on a run to/from Earth. The beaming technoloy would have made the mission much easier.


Nitpicks/critiques:

-Why on earth didn't Weir and the others ask for the charge status of the ZPM before making any agreements? That was the first thing I thought of, and sure enough it came back to bite them in the end. They were this close to losing Shep, McKay, and a good chunk of their military, all because they didn't think of something so simple.

-When the enemy has an unopened box and you have no idea of the contents, you get him to open it before sliding it to you. Come on Shep, you should know this stuff.

-How did the Genii know which team members have the ATA gene? I can guess that they knew about Shep and McKay from earlier dealings, but what about Lorne, who I'm guessing came over with the Deddy? If they were spying on offworld teams then either they're extremely clever and sneaky or the offworld teams are getting lax...


All in all, a fun episode that reaffirmed my faith that the Genii can be a damn cool enemy. I already can't wait to see them again. :D

GatetheWay
January 10th, 2006, 08:34 PM
-Why on earth didn't Weir and the others ask for the charge status of the ZPM before making any agreements? That was the first thing I thought of, and sure enough it came back to bite them in the end. They were this close to losing Shep, McKay, and a good chunk of their military, all because they didn't think of something so simple.

If they had asked the Genii could of just lied about it or said they didn't have the technology to know. Anyway, Laden said they stole it from the Brotherhood and Atlantis knew for a fact that had been a fully charged ZPM.

watcher652
January 10th, 2006, 08:38 PM
Where was the Dedalus it could have just beamed Shepard and the other hostages up.The Daedalus is not hanging around Atlantis all the time. It spends more time traveling back and forth between the Milky Way and Pegasus. It takes 18 days to get from Earth to Atlantis. That's one way. Even if the ship just left and had to turn around, there wasn't enough time for it to get back before the Genii deadline.

You can't use the ship as a crutch in every episode. As McKay said in The Long Goodbye
Caldwell is only around one week out of six.

GatetheWay
January 10th, 2006, 08:58 PM
Hey, did anyone hear when Weir said Miller (Siege, part 1) was doing a fly over scan of Laden's base? I though PTB had forgotten all about him. :)

Steven_the_Atlantean
January 10th, 2006, 09:12 PM
OMG I don’t understand how it is depleted I know for a fact that the genii can not use it. So what drained its power, If the ZedPM was actually found on the Genii home world in their archives, that means there could have been an ancient technology because how else what a power source appear their.

Agent_Dark
January 10th, 2006, 09:27 PM
OMG I don’t understand how it is depleted I know for a fact that the genii can not use it. So what drained its power, If the ZedPM was actually found on the Genii home world in their archives, that means there could have been an ancient technology because how else what a power source appear their.
More likely someone found it on another world, depleted, and brang it back to the Genii world.

rexpop
January 10th, 2006, 09:31 PM
Great episode. Kept me guessing the whole time. Though, when they said Kolya was presumed dead, I couldn't help but say "I don't think so!" I get the impression he's pulling the strings on this. I doubt Leyden came up with this all on his own.

I can remember reading somewhere that Kolya was originally supposed to be in the episode, but the actor (Robert Davi) was unavailable and so they had to work around it.

I would suspect Kolya will remain missing, presumed dead until someone comes up with a use for him (assuming of course that the actor is available and willing to return).

AutumnDream
January 10th, 2006, 09:35 PM
WOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!

GO MARTIN! Awesome ep! I think the writing team from now on should be strictly Martin/Carl/Rob/Brad. THIS is the real Atlantis! Everyone mentioned most of the awesome stuff already. The changes in Weir, Shep being funny, McKay being his lovable self, Teyla's lovely clothes/hair, Weir being HAWT, the awesome plot and use of backstory...

Episodes like this surpass BSG, in my opinion. But that's just cause' I'm heavily biased. :p

- Interesting how our humanity/soft-hearted sides won it for us in the end. What with us being kind and altruistic in treating the enemy's illnesses. Woo!

Heyyy... the rest of the season is all Carl/Martin episodes. :D

rexpop
January 10th, 2006, 09:36 PM
The Daedalus is not hanging around Atlantis all the time. It spends more time traveling back and forth between the Milky Way and Pegasus. It takes 18 days to get from Earth to Atlantis. That's one way. Even if the ship just left and had to turn around, there wasn't enough time for it to get back before the Genii deadline.

You can't use the ship as a crutch in every episode. As McKay said in The Long Goodbye
Caldwell is only around one week out of six.

I was kind of expecting Shep to pull this out of the hat as an ace in the hole and beam everybody out. I'm glad that they didn't as it would have lessened the episode.

Actually that does bring up an interesting question: Do the Genii know about the 'Daedalus' ?.

AlphaBlu
January 10th, 2006, 10:13 PM
Well, I thought it was great. The only bad part was that they killed Cowan.

BYE

Michelle05
January 10th, 2006, 10:22 PM
Gee, was this a great episode. So well written and executed. Interesting, tense, original (as in not a Star Trek rip-off), unpredictable. Well, I guessed that Lorne wasn't dead and thought that the mission to get the ZPM was probably a trap, but I sure didn't guess the last twist, that the coup was real. And along the way I never stopped analyzing what was going on, trying to figure it out. Every scene kept my attention. This is good plotting and dialog.

Beckett was great as were Rodney and Sheppard. I love Rodney trying to learn military lingo and John being nothing but annoyed with him. Cowan was awesomely slimey yet I believed him in the first scene. I'm still not a big Weir fan but at least she was written well this time.

I wish Martin Gero would write a lot more scripts, for both Stargate shows.

gambit
January 10th, 2006, 10:26 PM
Wasn't Ladon the one in 'The Eye' who you could see run and stumbled like a little coward back through the stargate after Sheppard killed the retreating Genii when Koyla was trying to pull Weir through?

randy
January 10th, 2006, 11:51 PM
Corollary for thought: now that the Genii have nearly procured a means of utilizing ancient technology by synthesizing the ancient gene from the detained soldiers, what will the expedition's new safety precautions be? This might be an insidious plan by Layden to befriend the enemy, standing idly, waiting for the time to usurp Atlantis, now knowing they possess the gene. Any comments?

Wick
January 11th, 2006, 12:10 AM
I was kind of expecting Shep to pull this out of the hat as an ace in the hole and beam everybody out. I'm glad that they didn't as it would have lessened the episode.

Actually that does bring up an interesting question: Do the Genii know about the 'Daedalus' ?.
I don't think the Genii know about the Daedalus but i can bet you in another season they will find out and try to take it or something.

Dorka
January 11th, 2006, 12:19 AM
O.K I have to say I loved this episode... nearly as much as TLG and yep, besides that episode and Critical Mass one of the bests in the second half...

So:

- The women were veeeeery good styled....I loved Teylas outfit and her hair was very nice done too...and to Weir it gives a while new self-awareness with a little-more feminin clother and high-heels :D

- I was happy I read the spoilers already, or I would have freaked out in front of the TV when they let us think Lorne was dead....they just can't kill this guy, he's sweet, he's cute, he got a niiiice humour and he's just Lorne and a part of Atlantis!!!! I'm still up for "Major Thomas Lorne" ;)

- Elizabeth/Torri were great in this episode...really good character developement. She's getting darker...ohhh yes and I definitely like it! I also liked, even as a shipper, that she rather would have risked Johns life than giving atlantis such a handycap of loosing all the jumpers. That destroyes Kavanagh's coment about being too driven by her feelings and gives her more strengh... in the first half of the season many people were saying she's too weak, I haven't seen it that way then, but I definitely like the way TPTB are going with her!

- Last week I wasn't really impressed by Joe's acting...well this week it was just the opposite... I totaly loved how he was acting IMO the best in this episode ;)

- The camera work was once more very nice in this episode... good work!

- Ronon can talk and even make an investigation...wow...never thought of seeing that *lol* IMO in this episode you saw once again the great chemistry between Ronon and Teyla... ;)

- Yeah I'm a Liz/John shipper but first of all I ship for their friendship, and that one was very visible in this episode again! I love how their trust toward each other grew and John is listening and not arguing too long when Elizabeth tells him something, and she is the one who finally can say NO without changing her mind 3 minutes later ;) I just love the chemistry between these two!
And well the last scene I found really flirty *coughs*

- Return of the Genii...definitely cool, I love and hate these people at the same time *lol*

So far that it is...I'll rewatch it once more, maybe I'll notice more things ;)

AutumnDream
January 11th, 2006, 02:13 AM
- Yeah I'm a Liz/John shipper but first of all I ship for their friendship, and that one was very visible in this episode again! I love how their trust toward each other grew and John is listening and not arguing too long when Elizabeth tells him something, and she is the one who finally can say NO without changing her mind 3 minutes later ;) I just love the chemistry between these two!
And well the last scene I found really flirty *coughs*


I caught that too. GO SHEP/WEIR! I hope he takes her to a prettier place in Atlantis on their first midnight picnic than he took that dirty, dirty ancient girl Chaya. :D

Oh, spring is coming, and loving is blooming...

macktheknife
January 11th, 2006, 03:02 AM
Actually that does bring up an interesting question: Do the Genii know about the 'Daedalus' ?.

I doubt that very much.

If the genii knew they had a ship that could beam\fire a nuke right into their city, I doubt they would have done this.

macktheknife
January 11th, 2006, 06:00 AM
BTW, No sora makes mack a sad panda.

AutumnDream
January 11th, 2006, 08:03 AM
I was glad she wasn't in it. Her whiny voice bothers me. XD

prion
January 11th, 2006, 08:17 AM
Nitpicks/critiques:

-Why on earth didn't Weir and the others ask for the charge status of the ZPM before making any agreements? That was the first thing I thought of, and sure enough it came back to bite them in the end. They were this close to losing Shep, McKay, and a good chunk of their military, all because they didn't think of something so simple.

Well, they could have said anything, and since Ladon was on the run, it's not like he had an iPod to plug into the ZPM to prove it worked ;)

-When the enemy has an unopened box and you have no idea of the contents, you get him to open it before sliding it to you. Come on Shep, you should know this stuff.

Drama! Plus Shep was certainly close enough that it were a bomb, Ladon would get nailed too, unless of course you made a directional type nail bomb...

-How did the Genii know which team members have the ATA gene? I can guess that they knew about Shep and McKay from earlier dealings, but what about Lorne, who I'm guessing came over with the Deddy? If they were spying on offworld teams then either they're extremely clever and sneaky or the offworld teams are getting lax...

Um, um.... He googled it! ;) I have no idea. Anybody who pilots has the gene, so that could account for some of them....

ToasterOnFire
January 11th, 2006, 08:40 AM
If they had asked the Genii could of just lied about it or said they didn't have the technology to know. Anyway, Laden said they stole it from the Brotherhood and Atlantis knew for a fact that had been a fully charged ZPM.
One idea would have been to send Rodney or another scientist alone to verify that the ZPM does indeed work and only then start trading negotiations.
Also, if it is the Brotherhood ZPM, how did the Genii deplete it? I didn't think they had the technology to do so. Not to mention it must have been a lot of work to deplete a fully charged ZPM. What were they doing? Could Laden have been lying - instead of the Brotherhood ZPM it was another, discarded one?

If Laden is indeed telling the truth about stealing the ZPM from the Brotherhood then I wonder if the Brotherhood is still around or if the Genii wiped them out...


BTW, No sora makes mack a sad panda.
Ditto...except for the panda thing. :D I was wondering which side she would have chosen. It's likely that she's fighting with the coup rather than against - maybe she's off with Kolya?

Ouroboros
January 11th, 2006, 09:23 AM
-Why on earth didn't Weir and the others ask for the charge status of the ZPM before making any agreements? That was the first thing I thought of, and sure enough it came back to bite them in the end. They were this close to losing Shep, McKay, and a good chunk of their military, all because they didn't think of something so simple.

It's worth pointing out that Laiden also presented himself as not knowing much about what the ZPM really was. They might not have asked for the charge status because they didn't want to give him any hints about how potentially powerful/destructive it was. Also as pointed out, how exactly was he supposed to check it anyway, even if they did ask?

For those pointing out that the Daedalus wasn't around to cheap shot the plot by beaming everyone out I think you're missing something rather important using that as a complaint. The daedalus being around and beaming everyone out in some big deus ex machina technowank cheese fest would have made the episode worse not better. I applaud Gero for not resorting to something cheap like that to resolve the hostage situation here. It's also perfectly reasonable that bad stuff would happen when the Daedalus isn't around to save the day to, so I have no problem accepting it on that level.

Laiden's political games were a much more natural and much more satifying resolution. He'd already brought Cowen there to nuke him and all his boys. Getting his sister back alive then came up as a bonus he hadn't expected. He had no reason to turn it gown given that the SGA hostages were of no other value to his plans so he traded them.

The characters actually had to work their way through this one instead of getting bailed out by stuff like teleporter beams or last minute super tech or throwing knives into a control panel. That's actually what made it so much better than a lot of what's preceeded it.

This episode should be mandatory viewing for anyone writing future episodes. Lets get some more like this coming out and I won't have to ***** so much all the time.:D

Domesticated Equine
January 11th, 2006, 09:37 AM
The characters actually had to work their way through this one instead of getting bailed out by stuff like teleporter beams or last minute super tech or throwing knives into a control panel.



That's very true, the resolution was believable and satisfactory. I would like to point out though that our heros didn't really save themselves, they just just got lucky that Laiden did want a revolution after all.

The Engineer
January 11th, 2006, 09:55 AM
Finally a good episode with the Genii in it, all the Genii stories I hated so far, they seem to have no credibility as enemies (to me), but this episode was really good.

Merlin7
January 11th, 2006, 09:57 AM
One idea would have been to send Rodney or another scientist alone to verify that the ZPM does indeed work and only then start trading negotiations.
Also, if it is the Brotherhood ZPM, how did the Genii deplete it? I didn't think they had the technology to do so. Not to mention it must have been a lot of work to deplete a fully charged ZPM. What were they doing? Could Laden have been lying - instead of the Brotherhood ZPM it was another, discarded one?

If Laden is indeed telling the truth about stealing the ZPM from the Brotherhood then I wonder if the Brotherhood is still around or if the Genii wiped them out...


Didn't Laden tell Shep, when Shep was tied to the chair, that the ZPM had been in the Genii archives and they didn't know what it was for when they found it and dusted it off. So they used it to bait Shep and Co? Or something to that effect.

GatetheWay
January 11th, 2006, 09:58 AM
One idea would have been to send Rodney or another scientist alone to verify that the ZPM does indeed work and only then start trading negotiations.
Also, if it is the Brotherhood ZPM, how did the Genii deplete it? I didn't think they had the technology to do so. Not to mention it must have been a lot of work to deplete a fully charged ZPM. What were they doing? Could Laden have been lying - instead of the Brotherhood ZPM it was another, discarded one?

If Laden is indeed telling the truth about stealing the ZPM from the Brotherhood then I wonder if the Brotherhood is still around or if the Genii wiped them out...
Laden had SAID he had stolen it from the Brotherhood but he lied about that. The Atlantians thought he had the Brotherhood ZPM which they knew for sure was fully charged, so why bother asking? And what were the chances he would have a dummy ZPM? I was spoiled to the wrost degree on this episode and I didn't even see it coming. Even if they had sent someone to "test" it, Laden could of said he didn't want to show it to them afraid they would double cross him, which they probably would of.

the dancer of spaz
January 11th, 2006, 09:58 AM
So, two questions:

1.) Is Atlantis pretty much destined to NEVER have a steady supply of ZPMs at their disposal? If so, OK, great. But what does that matter if they have a steady supply of Daedalus-like spaceships at their disposal? I'm all for instant travel, but the Daedalus seems to be mighty popular - Caldwell's always there to heckle people.

2.) Is the general consensus that Teyla and Ronon WEREN'T reduced to Lame Subplot/B-Plot this time and/or didn't played a heavy role in the story alongside their team members? I'm just wondering. :D Let me know!

GatetheWay
January 11th, 2006, 10:05 AM
I want to know how in the hell the Genii were able to (1) subdue Lorne's team, (2) strip them of their uniforms and dogtags, (3) dress other bodies with the uniforms, (4) set the building on fire, and (5) escape with four presumidly unconsicous or reluctant people all in a measily half hour! Not to mention that someone, either the Geni or the locals, had to put out the fire by the time Sheppard's team arrived.

caty
January 11th, 2006, 12:45 PM
. Even Cowen was smart here, he only lost because Laiden was just that much smarter. No one was really caught acting stupid here, even the SGA team didn't really have a choice but to try and get that ZPM.



Hot damn this is the kind of episode I want to see more of.

10/10
Nope, I still think Cowen is quite dumb for the mentioned reason...:D
Otherwise, I whole-heartedly agree with you...

Callie
January 11th, 2006, 03:02 PM
Draft transcript is up:

http://www.brundle.free-online.co.uk/217_Coup_DEtat.html

starfox
January 11th, 2006, 04:40 PM
I want to know how in the hell the Genii were able to (1) subdue Lorne's team, (2) strip them of their uniforms and dogtags, (3) dress other bodies with the uniforms, (4) set the building on fire, and (5) escape with four presumidly unconsicous or reluctant people all in a measily half hour! Not to mention that someone, either the Geni or the locals, had to put out the fire by the time Sheppard's team arrived.


I don't know how they pulled off the fire stunt, but the rest could have been done very quickly if the Genii had a lot of men with guns pointed at Lorne's team.

PG15
January 11th, 2006, 06:56 PM
Just plain awesome, no doubt about it. There were so many twists and turns, and I had known that ahead of time (not what the turns are, but I knew they were there), so I was analysing scenes, and pretty much saw none of it coming. :o

So, 5/5, and one last thing: Weir is getting so Hot(!) these days! :D

Buzz Lightyear
January 11th, 2006, 11:16 PM
Raise your hand if you didn't actually believe Lorne was dead.

Yeah, that plot development was a bit obvious.


Kind of disappointed that Weir didn't immediately realize that the Genii had sent out the wanted posters. After all, how many other races knew about the ATA gene?

I didn't see the depleted ZPM coming, that was a good move.

I thought it was lazy writing to not have Weir et al immediately suspect the Genii for the wanted posters *AND* question whether the ZPM actually functioned, rather than assuming it did. They've encountered far more depleted ZPM's than working ones. Of course, another valid question is how the Genii would have known if a ZPM was depleted or not.


Oh Weir, condoning coups and working with new revolutionary governments. Where oh where is your character going to be by the end of this season?

Whether she condones coups or not on foreign worlds is probably irrelevant, but in point of fact, she didn't condone the premise for the coup because she sent Sheppard and McKay to warn Cowen. (Don't really know why McKay needed to go on that errand or the later mission either.) Later, when it was a choice between accepting Ladon's offer to free her men and not criticizing his nuking Cowen's battalion, it was a no-brainer, considering what Cowen was prepared to do to those same men.

Buzz Lightyear
January 11th, 2006, 11:29 PM
Laden had SAID he had stolen it from the Brotherhood but he lied about that. The Atlantians thought he had the Brotherhood ZPM which they knew for sure was fully charged, so why bother asking? And what were the chances he would have a dummy ZPM? I was spoiled to the wrost degree on this episode and I didn't even see it coming. Even if they had sent someone to "test" it, Laden could of said he didn't want to show it to them afraid they would double cross him, which they probably would of.

I had serious doubts on the validity of Ladon's claim to having found the Brotherhood's ZPM. And so too should the Atlantis expedition. There was no precedent for Weir et al to trust Ladon, based on their previous encounters. If the Genii knew what a ZPM was used for, offering it in trade for a few guns and explosives is like trading a functioning nuclear power plant for a dozen box cutters and a couple of Molotov cocktails. If Ladon had asked for one or two puddle jumpers in exchange for the ZPM, that at least would have been more plausible.

Wyrminarrd
January 11th, 2006, 11:34 PM
I agree with those that have said that this is propably the best episode of the season. No lame thingamajigs to save the day or overly contrived dodads which is really a breath of fresh air in this show.

One does have to wonder what the hell Cowen was thinking with this stunt. Isn´t he aware of the fact that Atlantis has a battleship around? Even if he knew that it was away from the galaxy at the moment and wouldn´t be back until after this was all over there still remains the fact that the Deadalus could simply have gone into orbit around the Geni homeworld and bombed the sh!t out of their underground city in retaliation. But perhaps he had no idea about the ship :beckettanime14:

I hope the rest of the season will be like this and keep the focus on action and larger events and not on just one or two characters.

macktheknife
January 12th, 2006, 12:02 AM
Raise your hand if you didn't actually believe Lorne was dead.

*raises hand*

Skythe
January 12th, 2006, 12:57 AM
When i first started watching the ep, i thought it was awesome. I was wondering what the hell was going on, really got me thinking, etc etc. I thought it seemed un atlantisish for what they were meant to be doing to the resistance movement, and that the episode was going downhill by then, turning into a typical genii thestormcloneplot, but fortunly, by the end of the episode it had got me thinking more and had a much better resolution. Notably i had considered whether the title would be referring to an overthrow of atlantis or the genii for most of the episode (you know, while we *think* it was making reference to a genii overthrow, it could have actually been an atlantis one). Toward the middle-end of the episode it seemed they weren't going to gain anything which annoyed me, but it was good at the end that at least they gained an ally and mended their alliance. Overall, good episode.

Oblivion147
January 12th, 2006, 04:07 AM
I agree with the general opinion here, very good episode, only beaten this Season by Critical Mass.

When Rodney was talking about getting the second ZPM and the new funky things they could do with all the extra power to Atlantis he mentioned that they might even be able to get it to fly.:) I know that he quickly said that wasn't possible but this could that be a pointer to the future. We know that Atlantis is effectively a big spacehsip. Do you think we'll ever have a city zipping around the Pegasus Galaxy. That would be a interesting sight.

McSwift
January 12th, 2006, 06:08 AM
Hey everyone. This is my first time posting on gateworld.net but i've been visiting this site for some time now, and really like what goes on in the discussion board.I was watching the episode, COUP D'ETAT, and something really bugged me about that episode.


1) About the rescue, wouldn't it have been better to just beam up the hostages with the Daedalus. Whats so good about having an awesome Battle Cruiser if its not there to protect or assist people.

2) With Laydon (sp?) having the ZPM when Weir authorized Sheppard to go in and secure the ZPM, why not just beam the ZPM up.

3) Lastly, if they were going to attempt a rescue, instead of sending teams into a firefight, at least have the Daedalus blast them with their rail guns.

Its kinda sad really that when things gets exciting, the Daedalus is never around.

Qasim
January 12th, 2006, 06:11 AM
Hi - welcome to the forum

The Daedalus was not around - probably on one if its trips between Earth and Atlantis

Wyrminarrd
January 12th, 2006, 06:15 AM
Welcome to the forum :cameron:

The daedalus wasn´t around for the rescue (propably in the milky way or traveling between the galaxies.

Personally I would have threatend Cowen with the Deadalus, telling him that if he didn´t release my people I´d have the ship park itself in orbit around the Genii homeworld and have it bomb the crap out their capital.

Qasim
January 12th, 2006, 06:17 AM
But with their spies it is possible that he knew the daedalus wasnt around and thats why he chose this time to implement the plan

Wyrminarrd
January 12th, 2006, 06:18 AM
Weir could still have threatent that she would blow up the Genii city as soon as the Daedalus was back. The Genii wouldn´t stand a chance against such an orbital bombardment.

McSwift
January 12th, 2006, 06:20 AM
Welcome to the forum :cameron:

The daedalus wasn´t around for the rescue (propably in the milky way or traveling between the galaxies.

Personally I would have threatend Cowen with the Deadalus, telling him that if he didn´t release my people I´d have the ship park itself in orbit around the Genii homeworld and have it bomb the crap out their capital.

Thanks for the warm welcome everyone! I had a better post but the forum didn't post it, (I was trying to find out how to put the spoiler tags in, thank god I found how).

Anyways we know in Grace Under Pressure that Atlantis was about to get a few F302s It would have been nice if the F302s were able to fit into the gate.

We seen in earlier episodes of SG1 and even the more recent ones where primative rifles and guns can't take down a Deathglider for instance. If Atlantis was to launch the F302s on the Genii, think about it.;) :)

Qasim
January 12th, 2006, 06:22 AM
Weir could still have threatent that she would blow up the Genii city as soon as the Daedalus was back. The Genii wouldn´t stand a chance against such an orbital bombardment.In that time Sheppard and his team could have been killed but you do have a point

As for the sending ships through most of the people with the gene and pilot experience were gone with Sheppard

McSwift
January 12th, 2006, 06:27 AM
Like I love the Daedalus, probably more than anyone else here :) But I thought it would have been nice to finally reveal what Atlantis really have. Sure the Puddle Jumpers are amazing, but the Daedalus has a vast capabilities.

I'm sure the Genii would have just shut up and give Sheppard's team back if they saw a huge battle cruiser fly out of the sky. :) :)

Wyrminarrd
January 12th, 2006, 06:29 AM
Do you think Cowen would have the guts to kill Sheppard if faced with the possibility of his stronghold being wiped out?

As for sending ships through the gate.... The proplem with that is that if your enemy expects something through the gate he can easily set things up so that he can shoot it down. The gate is a massive choke point and it´s only because of writers convinience that SG-1 ever made it through to any Goa´uld held planet. Plus in order to fit through the gate you´d have to cut out a lot of fire power and in general reduce performance of the fighter (at least given Earths tech level).

McSwift
January 12th, 2006, 06:33 AM
Make sense!

Wait a sec, I just got a thought. In all atlantis episodes we watched, we saw that the puddle jumpers begins to cloak after they exit through the gate. For a rescue, why not just cloak the jumpers while being on Atlantis, go through the gate, and devise some sort of attack that way.

Qasim
January 12th, 2006, 06:35 AM
Do you think Cowen would have the guts to kill Sheppard if faced with the possibility of his stronghold being wiped out?He risked that happening the moment he started all this - he seemed to think the genii would win everything and that the once we were beat we would stay down ... pfft to that

Its possible they thought they could somehow get the jumpers through the shield and take atlantis

Skyler
January 12th, 2006, 06:36 AM
In that time Sheppard and his team could have been killed but you do have a point

As for the sending ships through most of the people with the gene and pilot experience were gone with Sheppard


That was my only complaint about the episode was why would you send most of the people with the gene for a mission like this? If they all were killed then the ability to run the city would be severly hindered, as Weir said herself in this episode. They need to be more selective on who goes on missions. If someone wanted to really hurt Atlantis, they would just have killed all the people who go off-world with the gene. Where would they be left if that happened?

Wyrminarrd
January 12th, 2006, 06:36 AM
Make sense!

Wait a sec, I just got a thought. In all atlantis episodes we watched, we saw that the puddle jumpers begins to cloak after they exit through the gate. For a rescue, why not just cloak the jumpers while being on Atlantis, go through the gate, and devise some sort of attack that way.

Perhaps the reason they cloaked after coming through the gate in that episode is because the cloaking field can´t handle what happens at the wormhole event horizon? Best I could come up with on short notice :S

Wyrminarrd
January 12th, 2006, 06:40 AM
He risked that happening the moment he started all this - he seemed to think the genii would win everything and that the once we were beat we would stay down ... pfft to that

Its possible they thought they could somehow get the jumpers through the shield and take atlantis

Given his megalomania I can believe he thought he could get away with this, or at least he thought that Atlantis wouldn´t have the guts for an all out attack.

Oh, and the Genii wouldn´t have the PJ´s if Weir had gone into combat mode and decided to take on the Genii rather then deal with them.

Qasim
January 12th, 2006, 06:41 AM
Perhaps the reason they cloaked after coming through the gate in that episode is because the cloaking field can´t handle what happens at the wormhole event horizon? Best I could come up with on short notice :SThats the theory most people hold - there was a cloaked jumper there but the guy on it said the genii had moved too many troops in

Qasim
January 12th, 2006, 06:43 AM
Oh, and the Genii wouldn´t have the PJ´s if Weir had gone into combat mode and decided to take on the Genii rather then deal with them.If that had happened and they knew they were screwed they would just kill them as they have nothing to lose

Wyrminarrd
January 12th, 2006, 06:46 AM
If that had happened and they knew they were screwed they would just kill them as they have nothing to lose

The rational thing to do would then have been to free them and hope that it would be enough to restore the peace, after all Atlantis doesn´t want to be noticed by the Wraith (and the Genii would have made sure that the Wraith noticed).

I know that Weir wouldn´t actually have the "balls" to conduct as savage an attack as I stated but she really should at least have tried to bluff.

Qasim
January 12th, 2006, 06:52 AM
I know that Weir wouldn´t actually have the "balls" to conduct as savage an attack as I stated but she really should at least have tried to bluff.The writers seem a bit inconsistent they didnt do much here but in Critical Mass she was willing to go all the way

Wyrminarrd
January 12th, 2006, 06:54 AM
Most likely it never even occured to the writers to have her threaten to do something like this. Plus in Critical Mass it was just one guy (unless I´m somehow getting episodes mixed up) and not an entire city.

Qasim
January 12th, 2006, 06:56 AM
Critical Mass was the goa'uld bomb ep the whole of atlantis was at risk

dosed150
January 12th, 2006, 08:59 AM
I agree with those that have said that this is propably the best episode of the season. No lame thingamajigs to save the day or overly contrived dodads which is really a breath of fresh air in this show.

One does have to wonder what the hell Cowen was thinking with this stunt. Isn´t he aware of the fact that Atlantis has a battleship around? Even if he knew that it was away from the galaxy at the moment and wouldn´t be back until after this was all over there still remains the fact that the Deadalus could simply have gone into orbit around the Geni homeworld and bombed the sh!t out of their underground city in retaliation. But perhaps he had no idea about the ship :beckettanime14:

I hope the rest of the season will be like this and keep the focus on action and larger events and not on just one or two characters.

how could he know about daedulus the geniii have never seen it

darman
January 12th, 2006, 11:54 AM
Episode was great. I have an idea, cause Genii are such a pain, next time Daedalus comes to Pegasus, send it to Genii homeworld and beam their stargate into orbit. That way they can't cause more trouble and if necessary we can get to them.:sheppard:

Yeade
January 12th, 2006, 12:15 PM
That was my only complaint about the episode was why would you send most of the people with the gene for a mission like this? If they all were killed then the ability to run the city would be severly hindered, as Weir said herself in this episode. They need to be more selective on who goes on missions. If someone wanted to really hurt Atlantis, they would just have killed all the people who go off-world with the gene. Where would they be left if that happened?IIRC, Weir was speculating about the Genii strategy in general when she made her comment about the loss of ATA gene carriers crippling the city. That is, she thinks this is what the Genii believe but isn't saying much about how effective their efforts are or would be.

From "Hot Zone," we know the gene therapy is successful in 48% of recipients. If nearly everyone on the expedition has taken the therapy--and I think most scientists and military personnel would for the obvious benefits in accessing Atlantis for research and defense purposes, respectively--Atlantis should have at least 100 gene carriers.

As I said somewhere up-thread, the Genii are more likely to know of military gene carriers because these are the people who go routinely off-world, and it's simply bad luck that the team Sheppard took with him for the ZPM raid included many of these. However, even if the Genii managed to capture or kill all the military gene carriers, with the few scientists who both often go off-world and have the gene, without the Atlanteans catching on and putting a stop to it, they wouldn't be able to hurt Atlantis beyond recovery. Any number of people with the gene might still remain in the city--all scientists, who are the ones really in charge of keeping Atlantis up and running--and, with the expedition in contact with Earth, reinforcements can be sent without much delay and given the gene therapy.

The only real worry I can think of in the Genii targeting Atlanteans with the ATA gene is that they'll manage to get their hands on Sheppard, who besides being military commander is also the one with the strongest natural expression of the Ancient gene. That would hurt Atlantis because it's likely no one else has nearly the degree of control Sheppard's shown but, again, I imagine Sheppard's ATA gene would be a relatively minor consideration to him being the highest ranked military officer and expedition hero.

Besides, I'm not sure the Genii even know about the variances in gene expression between individuals. That they're developing their own ATA gene therapy is a concern but a) their medical technology might not be up to it in the end, b) the only test subject they had access to, so far as I can tell, was Lorne, who might or might not be a natural gene carrier and has an unknown gene strength, and c) it might have been a lie.

What's more, I'd say the vast majority of systems in Atlantis would run for anyone once they've been initialized by someone with the gene, and a number of others can be accessed directly with a bit of rewiring. The only two pieces of Atlantis technology we've seen that require the ATA gene to run are the jumpers--to clarify, I mean actually piloting them--and the control chair. The Genii don't know about the latter and haven't a clue the expedition's got the Deddy.

edit: The Genii perhaps have a skewed view of how important the ATA gene is. Remember that all their information about the gene's use in Atlantis comes from the vague comments Weir made to Kolya during "The Storm," and she was plainly exaggerating to convince Kolya to leave the city alone. Unless the Genii do indeed have contacts with the people from "The Tower," lol.

Er. I didn't mean to write so much, but the ATA gene is a pet topic of mine. :o

GatetheWay
January 12th, 2006, 12:28 PM
Don't forget you need the ATA gene for the lifesigns detectors too.

Yeade
January 12th, 2006, 12:36 PM
Oh. Point. I was thinking big. :o

So. Piloting the jumpers, the control chair, and the life signs detector. Maybe also the hologram projection room, as we've only seen Beckett and Sheppard accessing it. Plus whatever other unexplored technologies the Ancients deemed too sensitive to allow any other but their kind to use.

OTOH, pretty much all control room functions--including the stargate, the shield, the various sensors, the engines and related systems--the transporters, and other mundane things (e.g. lights, doors) are open to all.

That doesn't seem too bad, right?

McSwift
January 12th, 2006, 02:15 PM
Episode was great. I have an idea, cause Genii are such a pain, next time Daedalus comes to Pegasus, send it to Genii homeworld and beam their stargate into orbit. That way they can't cause more trouble and if necessary we can get to them.:sheppard:

Well, that would definitely be a fix, but it would totally just make a villan in the Atlantis universe go away.

Personally with Laydon (sp?) becoming the new leader of the Genii, and his sister being saved, hopefully the Genii would become more like allies instead of a rival

Would be nice to finally see an ally.

SmallTimePerson
January 13th, 2006, 01:27 AM
Would be nice to finally see an ally.
that doesn't use bow and arrows;)
having the gennii as an ally under the old regime would be risky, but there is still all those spy camps that would still be allied with the old regime...right? I don't know, maybe the gennii may split now, the old regime and the new. We could safely be allies with the new i think.

McSwift
January 13th, 2006, 03:33 AM
I think that having the new Genii as allies will be great. Their technology is well-developed, for a galaxy that doesn't advance in technology due to the Wraith.

Personally, I think that having the Genii as an ally, but more of a cautious step with them would be better than that of straight-all-out being allies with them. Who knows, power corrupts people. Laydon may end up doing what Cowen did (Try to steal Jumpers from Atlantis).

If they become allies with Atlantis, I think it will be great.

Wraith_Hunter
January 13th, 2006, 04:47 AM
One bad thing about this episode is that they get naively caught out again. They could have sent some human scanners through with the MALP. While watching on the camera, they could have instructed him what to do, then when the scans were finished. Had him hold it up to the camera & read the results in real time. They would have known instantly if there was anything in the ZPM or not.

That said, it was a pretty good episode overall & a big improvement over a few earlier episodes. Such as 'Epiphany' & 'The Tower'.

One thing strikes me though, these people are supposed to be the brightest & most skilled humans from Earth. Yet in what seems almost every episode, their naivety seems to shine through above all else. Especially when you consider what happens in 'Michael', & 'Allies'. Realistically, there should be a new leadership regime in Atlantis in S3. Which is what I think will happen myself. Probably Caldwell will be brought in as the senior military officer & everything Weir does will have to go through him.

Tok'Ra Hostess
January 13th, 2006, 05:02 AM
All right! That's more like it! :)

Very good ep, IMO, though I was terribly taken aback that Lorne had been killed off. Whew! Don't DO that to me! (actually, I take it back; yes, by all means, keep doing this. This was good drama. :) )

The Genii are worthy opponents - and could we please keep them that way? Hopefully the new leader will be just as crafty and give plenty of problems to the Atlantis team.

Rodney was... well, he was just perfect, this week! :)
He was a team player rather than a sniping pain-in-the-butt. Keep it up Rodney/DH.

I like that Teyla and Ronan got to do some detectivating(and what do you suppose those wanted poster props are gonna go for on ebay? :p ).

Weir was good, too, IMO; very much in charge, but it looks like she's inching toward the dark side. Of course, she's dealing with a people who only do dark, so....

PTB, eps like this one are what I want to see. Keep it up, please! :D

darman
January 13th, 2006, 09:12 PM
Well, that would definitely be a fix, but it would totally just make a villan in the Atlantis universe go away.

Personally with Laydon (sp?) becoming the new leader of the Genii, and his sister being saved, hopefully the Genii would become more like allies instead of a rival

Would be nice to finally see an ally.

Actually I was just kidding around. I was trying to make a point to people who thought that Daedalus should've beamed the team to rescue them. It would've just made the whole episode waste of time, same if they got rid of their stargate for the long run.;)

Battousai the Manslayer
January 15th, 2006, 12:15 PM
Man, this was an excellant episode with many twists and turns. This is definetly one I was happy was NOT spoiled for me since I had no idea what was going to happen throughout the entire episode. I loved it, very cool multilayered plot with cool lines from Ronon and a great performance by the main Genii bad guy (forgot his name). the new head of the Genii, not the next gen, deep space nine guy

GatetheWay
January 15th, 2006, 02:46 PM
Laden was his name. The only thing that disapointed me about this episode was that Kolya is presumed dead. I hope that isn't true I loved Kolya as a villian. :o

prion
January 15th, 2006, 04:00 PM
Laden was his name. The only think that disapointed me about this episode was that Kolya is presumed dead. I hope that isn't true I loved Kolya as a villian. :o

Well, Kolya is only PRESUMEd dead, which is great, cuz nobody knows if he is dead. In scifi, if you don' thave a body, you're not dead, and even then, you're not necessarily dead. I suspect the script could have been written with Kolya in mind in a different venue, but the actor was unavailable, so they blew up Colm Meaney instead, which is sorta sad, as Cowen made a good dictator type.

Oh, and it's Ladon with an 'o', just for any nitpickers out there :)

GatetheWay
January 15th, 2006, 06:35 PM
Laden, Ladon, Layden, I've seen it spelled every whicha way on this thread. I just picked the one I liked. :p

Vicious
January 16th, 2006, 12:10 AM
This was an awesome episode, nuff said.

SmallTimePerson
January 16th, 2006, 01:16 AM
I reckon we are going to see problems emerge from this coup, as some of the spy camps may still be allied with the old regime. They may start attacking the atlantians, but the atlantians fighting back may cause the new genii to become our enemies, well we will see in time.

VOOK
January 16th, 2006, 02:53 AM
I must of missed the Deleted ZMP scenes... when was it ?

eccscape
January 16th, 2006, 04:03 AM
it was okay but not the best episode this season and i agree with shockwave critical mass was way better.
it was also TOTALLY PREDICTABLE!! I felt like screaming at the all "how could you possibly fall for that?"
Strange though, twists aside the whole plot with the genii coup should have been enough to carry the episode.....but it just wasn't
Certainly i agree that the last two have been an improvment, but they can still do (and have done in S2 part1) better.

immhotep
January 16th, 2006, 02:26 PM
OMG i loved this episode, i mean it totally makes up for the tower! im still really annoyed that yet another ZPM has not been got... i mean the tower, the epiphiny one, the brotherhood one ( again) i mean how many ZPM's are we gunna have to discover before another golden energy jewel is put in our crow of power! its stupid!
but besides that its by far the best episode since seige, i loved it!

Dimeron
January 16th, 2006, 10:43 PM
Weir could still have threatent that she would blow up the Genii city as soon as the Daedalus was back. The Genii wouldn´t stand a chance against such an orbital bombardment.

Right now Genii and Atlantis can both mess each other up royally. Atlantis can of course bomb the crap out of the Genii (you don't even need Daedalus, a cloaked jumper would do the trick), but I doubt this will kill them though, as they without a doubt have backup strongholds all over the place. The Genii on the other hand can just tell the wraith that Atlantis is still alive, and that would completely screw over Atlantis.

Of course, with the thing it is right now, each side considers the other side to be more useful alive then dead (or crippled beyond recovery).

Nasa
January 20th, 2006, 05:26 AM
I absolutley loved this episode anyone agree???

Lone Wolf
January 20th, 2006, 06:05 AM
Wouldn`t necessarily call it the best but it`s definately one of the season`s highlights.

In my opinion the really good/important episodes of the season are:

Siege 3; Runner; Duet (just because it was so damn funny); Trinity; Conversion; Aurora; Grace under pressure (McKay`s one-man show); The Long Goodbye; Coup D`etat and Michael.

Though many people would not agree I think it was a pretty good season so far.

GatetheWay
January 20th, 2006, 06:54 AM
I'm a sucker for all things Genii so I think I have to agree with you Nasa. :p

DigiFluid
January 20th, 2006, 01:39 PM
Personally, I think the show has really found its footing in the second season where it stumbled a lot in the first. There's still a lot of room for improvement, but IMO, the highlights of Season 2 so far:

201 The Siege, Part III (IMO, really just the end of Season 1)
214 Critical Mass
217 Coup d'Etat
218 Michael

ToasterOnFire
January 20th, 2006, 02:06 PM
I will. :D

It was a good team episode, had a compelling plot and lots of twists, the number of dumb team mistakes was kept to a minimum, AND it had the Genii. If only more episodes could have been like this in s2. Thumbs up from me. :)

ping71
January 20th, 2006, 02:55 PM
Was one of the better episodes so far this season.
I hope the last episodes are the same. :)

GateByte
January 21st, 2006, 05:25 AM
Awesome episode. By far one of the best this season. I loved the fact that we got a twist, kept me guessing until the very end.

Giantevilhead
January 24th, 2006, 02:27 PM
The Atlantis team really needs to stop letting people push them around. They have the ability to completely cripple the Genii and they're letting the Genii threaten them, what a bunch of wusses. Weir should have threatened to take away the Genii gate the moment Sheppard and his team was captured.

maxbo
January 28th, 2006, 07:49 AM
I loved this episode because any episode that builds upon past storylines is usually a winner, IMO. It was also a great team episode where no one character dominated and I actually had the feeling that TPTB sat down and put time into planning the plot. Another plus was that the guests characters were outstanding. From Ladon and Cowan to Lindsay and the Barkeeps -- I enjoyed them all.

This was the first episode where I felt Weir was in charge during the entire espisode. Usually, she may start out strong, but with Sheppard and/or Rodney she wavers a bit. Here she was large and in charge throughout the episode and I loved it.

Teyla and Ronon were great in their good cop/bad cop roles and it was good to see them heading up the investigation of the disappearance of Lorne's team. Teyla's calm, deliberate interview style nicely balanced Ronon's more aggressive, confrontational approach.

I thought Sheppard and Rodney were wonderfully balanced here. Yes, it was strange to see Rodney join the strike force, but he and Sheppard were so funny that I could overlook that. I also loved Sheppard and Ladon's "errand boy" scene - it was perfectly portrayed by both.

Carson was also great and his scenes illustrated how each character's contribution tied into the overall storyline. I also loved how the difference in the way Carson views threats and the way Ronon views threats was handled. Carson wanted to provide Cowan with puddle jumpers in the hope that Cowan would release Shep's team, but the much more jaded Ronon pointed out that the Genii would just kill Shep's team anyway so SGA should not waste time trying to negogiate and just attack.

Lorne's dry wit was wonderful and funny and it was a relief that TPTB didn't kill him off. It's gotten to the point where if a character is given a name that I wonder when he'll be killed off.

The entire coup within a coup scenario kept me interested from beginning to end. More than that, this episode stands up to repeated viewing for me. I look forward to seeing Ladon (and perhaps Kolya) in the future. I loved the uncertainty of SGA's future relationship with Laydon. When next they meet, will he be friend or foe? This episode could be a goldmine for future storyline possibilities.

Xanderic
January 31st, 2006, 07:47 PM
Ok when Sheppard and his team come to raid the storehouse, Sheppard opens it and it's a ZPM. Then the guy says "There you go, One ZPM. One that is probably been out of power for 1000 years." Then the gas comes and everyone faints.

First off, how do the Genii know whether it is out of power or not? They can't even test it. Also the ZPM isn't like a battery where you can attach it to a mulitmeter and see if it still works.

Secondly, what happened to it afterwards? Did it get blown up with the Genii leader?

Third, we could have tried it to see if it works. Even if it was almost depleted, there's still some stuff in it. And if it was reallly depleted, we could add it to our own ZPM research.

Melak
February 8th, 2006, 01:11 PM
Third, we could have tried it to see if it works. Even if it was almost depleted, there's still some stuff in it. And if it was reallly depleted, we could add it to our own ZPM research.

I completely agree. I was really annoyed by the fact that they didn't get the ZPM. Even if it was depleted, McKay's would be final words in Hot Zone were telling of how he had theories of connecting a dummy ZPM to the Stargate to recharge it.

I would love to see something come from that scene in Hot Zone

GatetheWay
February 8th, 2006, 02:50 PM
They might of found it in an ancient machine an the machine didn't work with it in it so they decided it was out of power.

This is such a great episode that I don't really care about a little inconsistency like that anyway. :)

walterIsTheMan
February 17th, 2006, 05:17 PM
Was it just my eyes or was that footage of the town the same shot used for the town with the church in that one epi in season 3 of sg1?

AGateFan
February 17th, 2006, 05:59 PM
Major Loren is in trouble….ooo nnooooeessss. I bet he’s not dead too useless a death for too major a minor character. He’s probably held hostage somewhere. Get Beckett on that DNA analysis.

‘Well good luck with that…”… nice line I like Weir more each week.
Don’t trust the Genii, good idea.

Yes Ronan, two is better then one.

Genii guy knows too much.
Ronan, Mr. Interrogator? Why do I find that funny? Probably because he’s thinking “I bet I can get the truth out of her…. if you just let me…*thumbs knife*”

Told you, Beckett + DNA= Loren is not dead.

Genii guy is too happy, people that happy can’t be trusted.
Where I have I seen that guy?
Koya is murdered? I don’t believe that either.

Teyla, diplomacy may be a problem when you got the unleashed pit bull with you.

Good for you, not trusting this guy… but I am not sure I would go straight to the Genii.
I certainly would not walk into the Genii home world. And I am again very much not trusting the Genii. They are definitely up to something.

Ok, now I think Sheppard is stupid… why take this extra risk; surely they would not keep the ZPM at their main base. They are smarter then that.

So what, no pictures of Teyla and Ronan, they must feel left out.

So these people trust you and you just betray them? This seems like not a good idea. Seems like you are doing the dirty work for the Genii.

What’s with the blue blockers?
Ronan does feel left out. Hahahahaha
Hahhahaa. Looks like they will all be busted for cash.

They got played, they knew they would go to the Geni and the info was planted to get these guys out in the open.
I told you he was TOO HAPPY.

Again, I told you that it was a plan.
ALL the jumpers… yeah, that will happen. Do the math dumaz…. ALL the jumpers for what 6 guys.. Trade will never happen. Problem with the Genii is that they are TOO greedy. If he asks for 2-3 Jumpers he may get what he wants…. If they had only asked for the C4 instead of trying to take over Atlantis they may have gotten what they wanted but they just continuously overstep. You can’t make a completely impossible demand and expect to be successful. I really should be the Genii leader; I could do a much better job.

Beckett trying to save the sick. Good for him.
Hey look …… Loren.

See, even Weir can do math. The Genii are so odd, they are 1 half spy geniuses, 1 half complete freaking morons and 1 half bad math.

Gosh, could Sheppard really die? Or do we get our Coup due to Becketts skillful doctoring?

Ronan, kill em all, kill em now attitude is funny.

Double, double cross…. Cooooollll.

So what, the Genii are now our allies? Poor Chief, he was a good actor but drew the short straw when it came to characters.

Yay, that was a pretty good ep. :)

Lt. Colonel Ryu Gaia
February 17th, 2006, 05:59 PM
It actually seemed like the "It's Good to Be King" set.

Anyway, fantastic episode. One of the true best of Atlantis, with a great plot and a steady rythm. I'd say it's the best so far. Great job, writers, actors, directors, etc.

***1/2

walterIsTheMan
February 17th, 2006, 06:02 PM
It actually seemed like the "It's Good to Be King" set.

Anyway, fantastic episode. One of the true best of Atlantis, with a great plot and a steady rythm. I'd say it's the best so far. Great job, writers, actors, directors, etc.

***1/2
No I don't mean the set, I mean the shot of the town from a distance, right before the scene with Ronan and Teyla in the bar.

Daniel's_twin
February 17th, 2006, 06:04 PM
Very nice. For the past couple of weeks, it seemed that Atlantis went from fantastic story, to the next week having a drab boring predictible thing back to fantastic story. But this makes two weeks in a row that they had an engaging story that actually kept me guessing. The "wanted posters" were a neat little bit, and I liked the way they continued to develop the Gen'ii. I thought that that scientist guy had potential when I saw him in the Eye and the Storm. Liked the banter between him and Sheppard in the beginning.

Almost sad to see Cowen go, if only because he could've continued to make the Gen'ii more of a human antagonist. But anyway, a brilliant episode of Atlantis that had a surprise at the end that I actually liked. This ties with SG-1 this week for 4 1/2 out of five stars. Keep good episodes coming! :cool:

mckaychick
February 17th, 2006, 06:10 PM
Just got doen seeing the episode and i think it was great!! I would not say that this was the best episode of the season but it is up there as one of the best. The action was great and had alittle suspence, but alltogether a great episode!! 167 hours till Connerr Trinner!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

prion
February 17th, 2006, 06:10 PM
I loved this episode because any episode that builds upon past storylines is usually a winner, IMO. It was also a great team episode where no one character dominated and I actually had the feeling that TPTB sat down and put time into planning the plot. Another plus was that the guests characters were outstanding. From Ladon and Cowan to Lindsay and the Barkeeps -- I enjoyed them all.

This was the first episode where I felt Weir was in charge during the entire espisode. Usually, she may start out strong, but with Sheppard and/or Rodney she wavers a bit. Here she was large and in charge throughout the episode and I loved it.

Teyla and Ronon were great in their good cop/bad cop roles and it was good to see them heading up the investigation of the disappearance of Lorne's team. Teyla's calm, deliberate interview style nicely balanced Ronon's more aggressive, confrontational approach.

I thought Sheppard and Rodney were wonderfully balanced here. Yes, it was strange to see Rodney join the strike force, but he and Sheppard were so funny that I could overlook that. I also loved Sheppard and Ladon's "errand boy" scene - it was perfectly portrayed by both.

Carson was also great and his scenes illustrated how each character's contribution tied into the overall storyline. I also loved how the difference in the way Carson views threats and the way Ronon views threats was handled. Carson wanted to provide Cowan with puddle jumpers in the hope that Cowan would release Shep's team, but the much more jaded Ronon pointed out that the Genii would just kill Shep's team anyway so SGA should not waste time trying to negogiate and just attack.

Lorne's dry wit was wonderful and funny and it was a relief that TPTB didn't kill him off. It's gotten to the point where if a character is given a name that I wonder when he'll be killed off.

The entire coup within a coup scenario kept me interested from beginning to end. More than that, this episode stands up to repeated viewing for me. I look forward to seeing Ladon (and perhaps Kolya) in the future. I loved the uncertainty of SGA's future relationship with Laydon. When next they meet, will he be friend or foe? This episode could be a goldmine for future storyline possibilities.

I'm just going to be lazy and go 'ditto' as I quite enjoyed the episode too for the same points you mentioned.

AdrianneP
February 17th, 2006, 06:15 PM
it was okay but not the best episode this season and i agree with shockwave critical mass was way better.
it was also TOTALLY PREDICTABLE!! I felt like screaming at the all "how could you possibly fall for that?"
Strange though, twists aside the whole plot with the genii coup should have been enough to carry the episode.....but it just wasn't
Certainly i agree that the last two have been an improvment, but they can still do (and have done in S2 part1) better.

I agree.
I can't see things to come in the most predictable of other shows and this episode bored the hell out of me. I knew what was coming long before, the MOST predictable episode! Just awful.

Adrianne

GatetheWay
February 17th, 2006, 07:07 PM
Major Loren is in trouble….ooo nnooooeessss. I bet he’s not dead too useless a death for too major a minor character. He’s probably held hostage somewhere. Get Beckett on that DNA analysis.

‘Well good luck with that…”… nice line I like Weir more each week.
Don’t trust the Genii, good idea.

Yes Ronan, two is better then one.

Genii guy knows too much.
Ronan, Mr. Interrogator? Why do I find that funny? Probably because he’s thinking “I bet I can get the truth out of her…. if you just let me…*thumbs knife*”

Told you, Beckett + DNA= Loren is not dead.


The name's Lorne. Sorry, just felt like I needed to correct you. :o But you're right he is too major a minor character to have a death like that. :)

vaberella
February 17th, 2006, 07:11 PM
I loved this episode because any episode that builds upon past storylines is usually a winner, IMO. It was also a great team episode where no one character dominated and I actually had the feeling that TPTB sat down and put time into planning the plot. Another plus was that the guests characters were outstanding. From Ladon and Cowan to Lindsay and the Barkeeps -- I enjoyed them all.

This was the first episode where I felt Weir was in charge during the entire espisode. Usually, she may start out strong, but with Sheppard and/or Rodney she wavers a bit. Here she was large and in charge throughout the episode and I loved it.

Teyla and Ronon were great in their good cop/bad cop roles and it was good to see them heading up the investigation of the disappearance of Lorne's team. Teyla's calm, deliberate interview style nicely balanced Ronon's more aggressive, confrontational approach.

I thought Sheppard and Rodney were wonderfully balanced here. Yes, it was strange to see Rodney join the strike force, but he and Sheppard were so funny that I could overlook that. I also loved Sheppard and Ladon's "errand boy" scene - it was perfectly portrayed by both.

Carson was also great and his scenes illustrated how each character's contribution tied into the overall storyline. I also loved how the difference in the way Carson views threats and the way Ronon views threats was handled. Carson wanted to provide Cowan with puddle jumpers in the hope that Cowan would release Shep's team, but the much more jaded Ronon pointed out that the Genii would just kill Shep's team anyway so SGA should not waste time trying to negogiate and just attack.

Lorne's dry wit was wonderful and funny and it was a relief that TPTB didn't kill him off. It's gotten to the point where if a character is given a name that I wonder when he'll be killed off.

The entire coup within a coup scenario kept me interested from beginning to end. More than that, this episode stands up to repeated viewing for me. I look forward to seeing Ladon (and perhaps Kolya) in the future. I loved the uncertainty of SGA's future relationship with Laydon. When next they meet, will he be friend or foe? This episode could be a goldmine for future storyline possibilities.


Your always on point....same thing I liked about the show....I love Lorne..and his contribution was bloody excellent.
VB

AGateFan
February 17th, 2006, 07:19 PM
The name's Lorne. Sorry, just felt like I needed to correct you. :o But you're right he is too major a minor character to have a death like that. :)
Its not in spell checker so it is best guess when I type it :). Results may vary ;)

ShadowMaat
February 17th, 2006, 07:37 PM
Thank the gods Lorne didn't die. A thousand curses upon Joe Mallozzi for causing me months of stress about that. :P

Lorne's bit WAS good. And snarky as usual. LOVED it. :D

Liked the Genii. Their motives are a little cliched at times but I still think they make a more effective enemy than the Wraith do. I'll be curious to see what the fallout from all this is, somewhere down the line.

Good use of the "terminal" patients as "hostages" although it was obvious to me that the girl was sick and I was a little surprised no one asked her how she was feeling because that was the first thing to pop into my head when she first opened her mouth.

Dr. Beckett to the rescue! Yay! :)

At least Shep didn't shag anyone this time. Liked McKay, too. I do agree that the trap they walked into seemed a little obvious, but it wasn't nearly as stupid as what they did in Long Goodbye and Tower, so I'm willing to cut a bit of slack on this one. Although I do wonder who's been handing out the stupid pills lately.

Whumped Lorne. *happy sigh* Wish he'd had a bigger part in things, but under the circumstances I can understand why he didn't. Hopefully he'll have more time to play in future eps. :D

Amanda Eros
February 17th, 2006, 07:54 PM
One of the best episodes this seasons! I agree about the trap, but otherwise, great episode! I'm so glad that Lorne is ok!

the fifth man
February 17th, 2006, 08:07 PM
I have to say, I really enjoyed this ep. It's going to be very interesting to see where the Genii go from here.

GatetheWay
February 17th, 2006, 08:13 PM
I hope they don't turn them into allies. That would be a waste of a perfectly good enemy.

LoneStar1836
February 17th, 2006, 08:51 PM
I hope they don't turn them into allies. That would be a waste of a perfectly good enemy.:indeed:

Finally! An Atlantis episode I could once again enjoy.

I’ve always thought the Genii were much more interesting enemies than the Wraith (which is pretty pitiful considering the Wraith were supposed to be such big bads in this new galaxy but their cartoonishness did them no favors).

Though like others have noted, now since the Daedalus is almost our cure-all now in the Pegasus galaxy, the Genii realistically don’t pose that much of a threat any more like they did in Season 1. If we really wanted to get ugly, just beam their gate into orbit. Problem solved.

Yeah it had some problems, but they were ones I could overlook considering the almost unwatchability of the last 2 or 3 episodes.

dmayor09
February 17th, 2006, 08:54 PM
In tonight's episode, Coupe de' tat, Teyla is givin a pouch with pictures of atlantis members in which weir confirms all of them have the gene. How do the genii know who has the gene and who doesn't? One example, on another atlantis team, there were pictures of the members of that team that had the gene and the 4th member wasn't in the photos b/c he/she didn't have the gene. How do they know this? its not like its common information to other worlds.

Red Tigress
February 17th, 2006, 09:02 PM
I hope they don't turn them into allies. That would be a waste of a perfectly good enemy.

I wouldn't mind them as allies. And besides, isn't there some plan in the works to make another race of baddies?

As far as the episode goes, i liked it alot. I enjoyed Weir's handeling of the situation, and I really liked the Investigation that Ronon and Teyla headed up. The jokes were enjoyable, too. I felt cowen's death was a wee bit too abrubt, but overall I was satisfied.

PG15
February 17th, 2006, 09:20 PM
It's been a while since I saw it (I'm in Canada), but I'm pretty sure they explained that Genii spies have been keeping track of who's piloting the Jumpers, and of course, whoever pilots must have the gene.

dmayor09
February 17th, 2006, 09:36 PM
its still a leap...not many people know that atlantis is still there..and only one person flies the jumpers....for the genii to know all the people capable of flying the jumper and who has the gene and who doesn't, its highly unlikely. to assume that one person can't fly the jumper just b/c he doesn't jump in the drivers seat, would be bad intelligence.

Hidden Ninja
February 17th, 2006, 09:47 PM
Ok so here goes...

The episode is great - as in it actually works unlike many of the episodes post "lost boys". The sets are good to excellent, and the genii are all genii like.

I would say this episode is the best one since Critical Mass and in some ways is a better story.

Mini Summery is as follows:
- One of the off world teams is under fire on a planet which was being assisted by an Earth agriculture specialist.

John & the gang go in to get them out, but only the lone scientist is left. The house they had been in is burned out. Upon investigation they find the other team dead in the house.

They bring the bodies back and then the gate activates "Unscheduled off world activation" (everyone drink 2 shots) and when no idc (2 more for prosperity) is sent the gate guy realizes that a narrow band UHF signal with audio video is present.

Up pops genii scientist guy, and proposes a trade for a new ZPM in exchange for some light weapons. He explains he wants to get the genii leader (colm Meeney - cant remember his characters name). After much hestiation they split Johns team - Teyla and the big R go off in search of answers for the dead team members and John & Mckay go grab scientist guy.

Team TR:
Back on the poor planet Teyla and Ronon investigate the villagers and realize they are all acting really strangely - very guarded. When they press a bartender (everyone drink) he states they are being watched and wont talk.

They start back to the gate when the bartenders wife/daughter/friend/employee... approaches and "returns Teylas lost pouch"

Upon investigation they realize that it contains photos of the missing atlantis team members along with John & Mckay. Hmmmmmm.... Fishy....

Team Kirk:

Meanwhile Weir and John decide to follow the better the devil you know method - so they goto the Genii home world and warn Colm Meeney. He lets them go.

Upon return they scout the planet where genii scientist guy is and realize that Colm was accurate so they decide to take the trade, but trick the scientist guy to steal back their zpm.(thinking its the one from the brotherhood) (Remember: My Name is Earl : Karma!!!)

They grab 12 genii prisoners while they trick and trade with the scientist guy.

Its realized that all the genii prisoners (which I forgot to mention above prior to going to the planet) all have some type of cancer from poor sheilding used on Genii nuclear weapons. Beckett realizes he can save 8 or so of the 12 prisoners, including scientist guys somewhat attractive younger sister.. Hmmm I wonder when she'll be back...... (see season 3 for details :) NEWAYS..

Beckett starts the healing thing.

So John goes off with Mckay and some others (knowing Mckay is super soldier) to take out the remaining few genii on the planet. The capture them all but when they surround scientist guy in a small warehouse he hits them with knock out gas... leading to:

Team TR:

Back on atlantis we now know that the missing people arent dead just missing. And the photos were actually "wanted: big reward" - we are also told (obvious point) that all the folks in the photos have the ATA gene.

They cant get hold of john (hes been nocked out after all). And weir starts worrying.


Team Kirk:

John wakes up and lo and behold Colm is there. They explain they want puddle jumpers... So using Johns walkie talky they contact were and say they want all the PJ's. Then Johns takin to the cell where all the others are - including Mckay and the presumed dead team members.

John tells scientist guy that the pj's are useless to the genii because they dont have the gene. Scientist guy has been drawing samples from all the atlantis folks and is actively working on gene therapy for the genii. (hmm I wonder if this will crop up in season 3.....)

...

In either case Weir refuses so Colm orders scientist guy to kill John. John explains Beckett can save scientist guys sister, so scientist guy orders John free.

Turns out he really was planning a coup. Theres a nuke under the building and scientist guy was using John & the earthers all the time to trick Colm into a trap and be able to kill all those oposing him.

They escape - Colm is nuked, Kolya is missing (the whole episode... too bad I liked him), Scientist guy is reunited with his sister (who had a TOOMAR).

The lantian's (ie earth folks) agree to help the new genii leader heal all those aflicted with radiation poisoning provided their are no further deaths (which apparently there arent).

The End..

Oh the ZPM was actually found on the Genii homeworld in their archives... Its depleted.. <SIGH>



Overall a great episode and a nice lead in to the final 3.

Next monday: Michael.!!!
Just wondering but why did you call part of Sheppards team team Kirk?
oh and what does the reputation thing do?

PG15
February 17th, 2006, 11:40 PM
Well, we know that the Genii spies spread across the galaxy, and I'm pretty sure the photos didn't include everyone with the gene.

I mean, all it takes is a few spies reporting that they saw a few puddle jumpers for the Genii to realize that the rumors of Atlantis being vaporize is false.

As for only one person flies the jumpers, while, there are plenty of pilots in Atlantis, meaning each will probably pilot a jumper at least once, and if a spy catches them doing it, then they'll know he has the gene. I guess the main point is that Genii spies are EVERYWHERE.

Stevo
February 18th, 2006, 12:18 AM
not just the jumper, theres other ancient tech used, like the Life signs detector

FerCryinOutLoud!
February 18th, 2006, 01:16 AM
This episode was good. Nothing was overly exciting to me, though. I'm happy that Genii leader guy, played by the star trek dude is dead. He was annoying, and arrogant.

I'm glad that there's an ally with the Genii, now. It's sort of surprising, actually.

It seemed the writer was able to get to the core of human nature in this episode, that love can prevail over personal ambition. The guy saved Sheppard and the Alantis people because he believed that his sister could be saved.

I like Ronan and the tough guy soldier thing he's got going on, but when they turn him into a mindless thug without intelligence, it urkes me. Like when the bartender guy wouldn't give him and Teyla the info they wanted, Ronan thought he would just threaten him bodily harm and then get what he wanted. No, it doesn't work that way, especially on people who have done no wrong. Not to mention, it doesn't paint a friendly picture of the people who come from Atlantis. It makes Ronan a bad guy, not a good guy. I think if you can kick the crap out of someone it just makes you that much better if you can get what you want without threatening bodily harm. It also seems that Ronans answer for everything is to attack. Like when he wanted to go in and attack the Genii. Or, when he told Weir, "Send me in, i'll figure something out." Oh, yeah lets just send you in alone without any plan or having thought anything through, you can save the day Ronan! You're invincible! The same way you thought things through, were naive with Sheppard, and got yourself shot by Weir in the last episode. I know Ronan isn't a real person, but the writers are abusing his ability as a warrior, and are being irresponcible with his character in this way. A warrior is only as good as his ability to think. I think Bra'tac said something along the lines of that in some SG-1 episode one time.

Beal
February 18th, 2006, 01:27 AM
Just imagine it as an episode of Stargate: Genii that doesn't get aired, where they do something clever and sneaky that we just don't get to see.

Naquida Guy
February 18th, 2006, 03:19 AM
The Genii fast-fowarded through tonights episode to see who they should take prisoner!

Seriously though, this would seem to imply there had been a spy in Atlantis, which makes no real sense. Maybe Ford sold them the information?

Arative
February 18th, 2006, 04:18 AM
I enjoyed this episode but sucks they killed Cowan off, he could have been a decent enemy. And hopefully Kolya surfaces sometime in the future. I laughed so hard when the strike team was going in and Rodney says 1 tango in the middle of the room and Shep just looks at him like WTF. But Wier is right, often coup's replace corrupt regimes with the best of intentions but then turn as bad or worse than the regime they replaced. I wouldn't count on the genii being allies any time soon. And they could have at least mentions Sora, like said she went missing with Kolya.

knowles2
February 18th, 2006, 04:20 AM
Well they could of got the information from the storm when they took over atlantis.

AGateFan
February 18th, 2006, 04:33 AM
Just wondering but why did you call part of Sheppards team team Kirk?
oh and what does the reputation thing do?

It’s a joke about all the "Kirking" that Sheppard does. Kirking is a term used when the shows hero (usually male) seems to be irresistibly attractive to any females (or males) who guest star on the show and then gets to kissing them (or more). Shep has done a unusual (for stargate) amount of kirking this year so he’s getting a rep (not a good one IMHO).

Reputation on Gateworld doesn't do anything except give you some little green boxes and some feedback from your fellow Gwers. You give it by clicking on the little scales icon in the top right hand corner of a persons post... it will pop up a little window and you can leave a message saying if you liked the post or not.

As for this ep. I did really like it. I wouldn't mind if the Genii were allies, they don't have to be super close or anything and their could be factions in their government that could cause us problems. I think the Genii will be better adversary if they came at us with logic instead of thinking we would be so stupid as to hand over ALL of our defenses.

Also, so we only have 10 PJs? What about the ones from Tower?
And the beaming the Genii stargate into space... thats a brilliant idea, why didn't we do that or go pick it up via PJ as soon as they tried to capture atlantis...

AGateFan
February 18th, 2006, 05:39 AM
Also, what good does capturing those people do other then weakening Atlantis’s defenses? I know the scientist guy said he was working on a way to give the Genii the gene, but how is that? They have no where close to our medical tech and yet somehow they have mastered Gene therapy? Kind of a leap.

MarshAngel
February 18th, 2006, 05:42 AM
I have only one question. How the hell do the Geni know so much? How many pjs we have, that the city survived, the uses of a ZPM? They just seem to be all up in our business like they've been following us around to every planet like paparazzi... lovely thought.

The Geni annoy me (which is good). They just can't see the forest for the trees. They really thought they can win this one by themselves with a few pjs after they kill off all the qualified pilots? Have they ever even flown so much as a hot air balloon in their irradiated lifetimes? They take much for granted.


.... well I guess I had more than one question.

ShadowMaat
February 18th, 2006, 05:47 AM
Well, either they tortured the information out of Lorne and his team or we have a Genii spy in Atlantis. :)

MacGyver`
February 18th, 2006, 05:55 AM
The name's Lorne. Sorry, just felt like I needed to correct you. :o But you're right he is too major a minor character to have a death like that. :)
It may have been a typo. :/

On topic, I thought the episode was great. It's a pity that Cowen is dead though, he was one of my favourite characters.

Ancient 1
February 18th, 2006, 06:16 AM
I just don't get the Genii. we try to help them time and again, they just screw us over time and again. WTF x 2!! Why are they so paranoid and why do we keep making the same mistakes when it comes to dealing with them? And with this new dude in charge, are we suppsed to be trusting once again? I just wanna scrape them off my shoe and walk away! How many times do we have to see what they are before we know what they are? Arrgh!

MacGyver`
February 18th, 2006, 06:37 AM
I just don't get the Genii. we try to help them time and again, they just screw us over time and again. WTF x 2!! Why are they so paranoid and why do we keep making the same mistakes when it comes to dealing with them? And with this new dude in charge, are we suppsed to be trusting once again? I just wanna scrape them off my shoe and walk away! How many times do we have to see what they are before we know what they are? Arrgh!
We already know a lot about them:


The Genii are a human culture from the TV series Stargate Atlantis living in the Pegasus Galaxy. Although they appear to be simple, Amish-like farmers, the Genii are an advanced, militaristic culture that is technologically equivalent to Earth in the 1940s. The majority of their civilization, which once was a confederation of planets, now lives in the vast cavern-cities that exist beneath their planet's surface. They put up their simple front to fool the Wraith, who wipe out the cultures they perceive to be a threat.

One of the great endeavors of the Genii is to perfect nuclear weapons. With these bombs they hoped to destroy the majority of the Wraith fleet while they hibernated, but although they could produce plutonium they couldn't perfect a triggering mechanism. Their plan was ultimately flawed; the Wraith hive ships had already awakened and left their dormant positions.

The Genii and the Atlantis expedition team were briefly allies, going on an offworld mission to steal valuable intelligence from a Wraith hive ship, but the Genii betrayed the team and tried to steal their C-4 explosives, which they believed could help their triggering problems, as well as a Puddle Jumper spaceship. The Atlantis team had brought secret backup, and so escaped back to Atlantis with the Wraith data.

Since then the Genii and the Earth Atlanteans, particularly Major John Sheppard and Genii Commander Acastus Kolya, have been enemies. On several occasions since then they have crossed paths and fought one another but so far the Earth expedition has prevailed.

A few encounters with the Genii have been peaceful; for example, in an episode an agreement that in exchange for C4 the Atlanteans could use the Genii prototype nuclear weapons to defend Atlantis from an imminent Wraith attack. However, subsequently, in other episodes such as The Storm, Atlantis has killed or captured the Genii or the Genii have attacked and held members of the Expedition hostage.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genii_%28Stargate%29

Ancient 1
February 18th, 2006, 06:46 AM
I have to say, I really enjoyed this ep. It's going to be very interesting to see where the Genii go from here.
Those sneaky Genii #//%*#&!! I have to admit though, I enjoyed hating Cowen. :o

creed462
February 18th, 2006, 07:07 AM
Doubt they have a spy on Alantis, Weir chose everyone on board. The aphosions (sp) maybe, but not alantis. Good Ep

MacGyver`
February 18th, 2006, 07:12 AM
Doubt they have a spy on Alantis, Weir chose everyone on board. The aphosions (sp) maybe, but not alantis. Good Ep
You're referring to the Athosians, right? If so then the prospect of them spying on Atlantis is unlikely. Who would they be spying for?

Red Tigress
February 18th, 2006, 07:29 AM
It's a pretty sure bet that the Genii have spies on most of the planets. Every time an Atlantis team went off world, I'm sure at the very least someone would report to the Genii who was there and when, and perhaps if they got a chance what they were doing and possibly overhear snippets of converstion. I wasn't really surprised that the Genii had all this information.

Ancient 1
February 18th, 2006, 08:37 AM
But it just seems that they always WANT something in return, and then they get greedy and overreach; always at our expense. When will they put their paranoia on a shelf, get smart, and realize that only as true allies would they be better off? Maybe it's just me... :o

Kirath
February 18th, 2006, 08:48 AM
in the Storm they weren't just trying to steal C-4 they also tried to take our medical supplies. that means they were in the med bay. they could have gotten ahold of Becketts research on the Ancient gene and the gene therapy. that guy who started the Coup,whatever his name was, could have read becketts on the gene, who had it, the gene therapy and who successsfully had the gene placed in their system. there's also the Ford explanaton. the Genii defectors in lost boys may not all have been defectors. The Genii could have had at least one guy still loyal feeding them info. Ford could have up priveleged info to someone he thought was loyal. the Genii would have allowed it to continue because if fords plan had worked a hiveship would have gotten destroyed and we would have gotten the blame.

ShadowMaat
February 18th, 2006, 08:59 AM
Possibly, but it's still a fun thought, however unrealistic. ;) And just because everyone was hand picked doesn't mean that they can't be "got to" one way or another. :P

michael
February 18th, 2006, 10:04 AM
So the genii had a zpm and a nuke blasted the planet it was on after Sheppard left with Ladon. Did they bring the zpm with them or not?:S

A Lost Cause
February 18th, 2006, 10:06 AM
The ZPM was dead, as in no power left and useless. so no, they left it to get destroyed

CalmStorm
February 18th, 2006, 10:28 AM
Really liked this episode. Loved that it had all of the main cast highly involved. They all had good screen time. These really are the best episodes. It's amazing what happens when it's not the McKay hour or the McKay/Shep hour or the Shep kirking hour.....no slight to the characters, but it seemed we were having a run of those type episodes and it is just good to see the entire cast with some real meaty parts.

I think I actually stayed away from the spoilers on this one........if I did read any, it must have been some time ago and I had completely forgot any details by the time this episode came around. I really wasn't sure of where Laden's allegiance was.........until the very end.

Poor Ronon feeling bad he was not "wanted" by the bad guys. I was really glad to see the implicit trust Weir now has in Teyla by allowing her and Ronon to proceed on an off-world mission on their own to find out what happen to Lorne and the others.....and without any hesitation.

Glad to see Cowen gone! Wonder what the consequences will be for the future of the Genii and the Atlantis team. Hopefully, helping out Laden's sister and the rest of the radiation suffering Genii will go a long way.......but you can never tell. After all, Laden had no qualms about letting Shep and crew die with Cowen, it was only when he found out that Beckett could help his sister that he decided to let them go with him to safety....and more likely from the fear that Atlantis would not help his sister if Shep and company died.

SG1Atlantis
February 18th, 2006, 11:20 AM
Very good episode. I'm glad that the episodes are improving. I also liked how the double double agent thing w/Laden. Very nice. The wanted posters were also a unique idea too. I'm also starting to like Weir more and more w/each episode. Glad they're finally starting to develop her charcter.:weir:

freyr's mother
February 18th, 2006, 11:40 AM
There is no way to know wheter it is dead or not unless you have a way to interface with it. We only luckly had a way to interface with it after finding the Ancient outpost in antarctica. It is doubtful that the genii found a way to interface with it because they are like 60 years behind us.

AGateFan
February 18th, 2006, 01:36 PM
There is no way to know wheter it is dead or not unless you have a way to interface with it. We only luckly had a way to interface with it after finding the Ancient outpost in antarctica. It is doubtful that the genii found a way to interface with it because they are like 60 years behind us.
The genii guy knew it was dead, he just didnt care.
Probably doesnt take any more then an ohm meter to tell it has any kind of charge. The Genii are developed enough to have nukes they are developed enough to recongize if something is holding a charge. Besides it wasnt glowing ;)

Mattathias2.0
February 18th, 2006, 03:18 PM
I really liked this episode... and I have always liked the Genii...

I'd like to see more Genii..

Mattathias

AutumnDream
February 18th, 2006, 03:23 PM
I envy all the lucky Americans who got to see this for the first time. I wish I could be seeing it new again too. :D

LORD MONK
February 18th, 2006, 04:00 PM
In tonight's episode, Coupe de' tat, Teyla is givin a pouch with pictures of atlantis members in which weir confirms all of them have the gene. How do the genii know who has the gene and who doesn't? One example, on another atlantis team, there were pictures of the members of that team that had the gene and the 4th member wasn't in the photos b/c he/she didn't have the gene. How do they know this? its not like its common information to other worlds.
This is simple. We know they have spies everywhere. So that is the answer to your question. They have spies everywhere.

Keep in mind that it is an hour show. They can't explain everything to us. Some stuff you just have to assume.

Infernorhythm
February 18th, 2006, 05:53 PM
I LOVED this episode. I found it highly interesting that Dr. Weir chose Teyla and Ronon to investigate the matter rather then the actual military. I think one of the funniest scenes was Ronon with his arm around the villager and Teyla telling him not to do that. Good cop bad cop. In fact, Ronon was a lot like a detective throughout the whole episode. Weir really is becoming more and more morally ambiguous. She had no problem with holding the unarmed Genii hostage and then sending a strike force to attack the rest. Wow.

Was I the only one that though Lorne really was dead? True, if he did die they would have killed him in a more epic manner, but it really would have set up the threat better. Oh, and I really, really liked Laden. Direct, to the point, and able to match wits with Sheppard. And then the twist in giving him humanity through his love for his sister. Nice. I'm glad Cowen is out of the way and Laden is in charge. Also, I just thought of something. What happened to Kolya? That was never expanded on. Something tells me that will be a season 3 plot point.

Best part of the episode? McKay trying to do the military hand signals. He really needs combat training.

PG15
February 18th, 2006, 06:11 PM
How many pjs we have,

This one's easy: spies on different planets saw PJs being used. There must have been a day when 10 spies reported they saw PJs on 10 different worlds.

Whistler84
February 18th, 2006, 08:52 PM
I LOVED this episode. I found it highly interesting that Dr. Weir chose Teyla and Ronon to investigate the matter rather then the actual military. I think one of the funniest scenes was Ronon with his arm around the villager and Teyla telling him not to do that. Good cop bad cop. In fact, Ronon was a lot like a detective throughout the whole episode. Weir really is becoming more and more morally ambiguous. She had no problem with holding the unarmed Genii hostage and then sending a strike force to attack the rest. Wow.

As a Weir fan, I kinda like it. Shows character growth and development.

Quinn Mallory
February 19th, 2006, 06:25 AM
I think the ads for this episode definitely give away the plot line that the Genii will turn on the Atlantis team. I watched the episode before seeing any ads and I didn't find the episode to be that predictable.

Gateboy13
February 19th, 2006, 03:01 PM
This one's easy: spies on different planets saw PJs being used. There must have been a day when 10 spies reported they saw PJs on 10 different worlds.

Either that, or the Genii could have simply counted the ones that were in the jumper bay when they raided Atlantis back in season one.

nccjones
February 19th, 2006, 05:08 PM
I like Ronan and the tough guy soldier thing he's got going on, but when they turn him into a mindless thug without intelligence, it urkes me. Like when the bartender guy wouldn't give him and Teyla the info they wanted, Ronan thought he would just threaten him bodily harm and then get what he wanted. No, it doesn't work that way, especially on people who have done no wrong. Not to mention, it doesn't paint a friendly picture of the people who come from Atlantis. It makes Ronan a bad guy, not a good guy. I think if you can kick the crap out of someone it just makes you that much better if you can get what you want without threatening bodily harm. It also seems that Ronans answer for everything is to attack. Like when he wanted to go in and attack the Genii. Or, when he told Weir, "Send me in, i'll figure something out." Oh, yeah lets just send you in alone without any plan or having thought anything through, you can save the day Ronan! You're invincible! The same way you thought things through, were naive with Sheppard, and got yourself shot by Weir in the last episode. I know Ronan isn't a real person, but the writers are abusing his ability as a warrior, and are being irresponcible with his character in this way. A warrior is only as good as his ability to think. I think Bra'tac said something along the lines of that in some SG-1 episode one time.

What else has Ronan ever been? I've never seen intelligence come from him since day one. I've only seen him as a big bouncer that waits for Shephards nod before he beats someone.

I don't care for Ronan. Every week I wonder why he's on the team, because he doesn't add any intellectual thought to any of the stories. Even when he speaks he sounds like a bully.

atlantisrocks
February 19th, 2006, 06:30 PM
I don't care for Ronan. Every week I wonder why he's on the team, because he doesn't add any intellectual thought to any of the stories. Even when he speaks he sounds like a bully.
I know, I miss Ford!:ford: Ford just seemed to have some substance! It's not that I hate Ronon, it's just that he doesn't have that much depth.:o Maybe next season we can keep Ronon, and bring Ford back to make everyone happy. I don't see why not, since SG-1 will have a five-member team as well.

As for the episode itself, I really believed they killed off Lorne in the beginning, and I was glad to see that he's ok! I was also very happy that Atlantis is starting to get some decent episodes with some plot again! I enjoyed the "That's Lieutenant Colonel Errand Boy to you!" by Sheppard,:sheppard: and the way that Ladon's guards just shot Cowen's guards:P . Overall, I give the episode 4/5 stars, and here's hoping for some more Genii-Atlantis interaction!

JUNIOR
February 19th, 2006, 09:42 PM
But it just seems that they always WANT something in return, and then they get greedy and overreach; always at our expense. When will they put their paranoia on a shelf, get smart, and realize that only as true allies would they be better off? Maybe it's just me... :o

Have you seen Coup D'etat yet?

FerCryinOutLoud!
February 19th, 2006, 11:03 PM
What else has Ronan ever been? I've never seen intelligence come from him since day one. I've only seen him as a big bouncer that waits for Shephards nod before he beats someone.

I don't care for Ronan. Every week I wonder why he's on the team, because he doesn't add any intellectual thought to any of the stories. Even when he speaks he sounds like a bully.

You're right. I think Ronan could be so much more if they just gave him some depth and background... and made him more than just a pitbull who likes to kill and mame (sp?). I like for tough guy characters or warrior characters to have intelligence and a cause for what they do. Like Teal'c or Bra'tac. If they would just work with the Ronan character instead of making him the resident butt kicker, he would be so much better. I mean now that super-Ford has some mystery and depth to his character he would make a much better full time character on the Atlantis team than Ronan. But, i suppose there's little hope for that now. That's why i think they need to work on the Ronan character before he completely becomes the stereotype he's being solidified as. I like Ronan, he's a good start. Now, that the writers have come half-way, it's time for them to cross the other half to make Ronan's character more complete with some depth and smarts.

Maltrancko
February 20th, 2006, 01:35 AM
The Genii fast-fowarded through tonights episode to see who they should take prisoner!

Seriously though, this would seem to imply there had been a spy in Atlantis, which makes no real sense. Maybe Ford sold them the information?

Ford wouldn't do that

esp because he does have a deep hidden desire to rejoin atlantis, heard a whisper somewhere (can't member for the life of me) that we would see the return of ford sometime season 4, as a regular, I do hope it's correct, his character has a lot of dimensions to it and the writers only scratched the surface

ShadowMaat
February 20th, 2006, 03:24 AM
Ronon is supposed to be "mysterious" and an "unknown quantity", therefor they shove him into the back corner and tell him to shut up until they need someone to do something violent. :rolleyes:

I doubt we'll ever learn much about him.

The Shadow
February 20th, 2006, 09:48 AM
Being someone who doesn’t have cable, I usually read the transcripts first and if one of my friends can get the ep for me, then I watch it. So when I read the transcript for this ep and got to the part of Sheppard saying that the dog tags are Lorne’s, I really believed that he was dead, I was really really distraught!!! But of course I didn’t get the chance to finish reading beyond that part because my mom told me to go to bed. (I’m a highschool freshman) The next day, I was rather mad and in shock and disbelief that the writers would kill off Lorne just like that without even showing his face again or having him go down in fighting, but then I finish reading the transcript to find out that Lorne is still alive, I literally jumped out of my seat and started to run around like a lunatic.

Lorne is actually my favorite character in SGA, Sheppard is #2 after him. Mckay in #3 and Beckett in 4th and Ronon finishes in 5th.

TPTB has already killed off Pendergast and the Prometheus, if they kill off Lorne, I’m gonna be very very upset and might accidentally leave a bomb at their door step.:ronan:

FerCryinOutLoud!
February 20th, 2006, 12:18 PM
Ronon is supposed to be "mysterious" and an "unknown quantity", therefor they shove him into the back corner and tell him to shut up until they need someone to do something violent.

I doubt we'll ever learn much about him.

Sadly, you might be right about that. But, i'm still holding out hope for the episode called "Sateda". I'm not sure if it's this season or the next that they're supposed to air it, but it's supposed to give some background on Ronan and we'll be able to visit his home planet and of course past happenings in his life. So who knows? We'll see i suppose.

Schrodinger82
February 20th, 2006, 04:17 PM
The genii guy knew it was dead, he just didnt care.
Probably doesnt take any more then an ohm meter to tell it has any kind of charge. The Genii are developed enough to have nukes they are developed enough to recongize if something is holding a charge. Besides it wasnt glowing ;)

Come on, not even the Gou'ald knew how to interface a ZPM. Now granted, the Gou'ald are scavengers, but I would still place them a few notches about the Genii.

Anyway, the premise of this episode was dumb. We know that the SGA and SG1 team can detect a charge from orbit, and we know that they already ran a cloaked scan on the planet from above, but somehow they don't bother to verify whether or not the ZPM is charged? WTF?

CalmStorm
February 20th, 2006, 04:35 PM
Anyway, the premise of this episode was dumb. We know that the SGA and SG1 team can detect a charge from orbit, and we know that they already ran a cloaked scan on the planet from above, but somehow they don't bother to verify whether or not the ZPM is charged? WTF?

Just out of curiosity, have we actually ever seen an episode where they have detected a zpm from a scan on a planet. McKay in the very first episode said that if there were zpms in the city they should be able to detect them......should be able....does not necessarily mean they can in fact detect them. I cannot recall any episodes where they located a zpm via a scan.....but it's late and my memory is shot at the moment so I could be wrong.

Perhaps they are only able to detect active zpms. Every zpm I have seen looks dead unless it is plugged into some sort of power source, so how is it detectable? Shouldn't McKay have had some equipment with him on this little raid to "scan" and see if this zpm was there? Shouldn't a cloaked jumper have snuck through the gate with the raid team and scanned for the zpm?

Avatar28
February 21st, 2006, 12:56 AM
Just out of curiosity, have we actually ever seen an episode where they have detected a zpm from a scan on a planet. McKay in the very first episode said that if there were zpms in the city they should be able to detect them......should be able....does not necessarily mean they can in fact detect them. I cannot recall any episodes where they located a zpm via a scan.....but it's late and my memory is shot at the moment so I could be wrong.

Perhaps they are only able to detect active zpms. Every zpm I have seen looks dead unless it is plugged into some sort of power source, so how is it detectable? Shouldn't McKay have had some equipment with him on this little raid to "scan" and see if this zpm was there? Shouldn't a cloaked jumper have snuck through the gate with the raid team and scanned for the zpm?

Well in Moebius Carter mentions using the Prometheus's asgard sensors to scan the planet for the ZPM and not finding it. That suggests that they should be able to detect it that way. Now, they weren't on board the Daedalus so likely didn't have access to said asgard sensors. It's possible the sensors they did have available to them weren't able to tell. And when did they say they'd run a cloaked scan of the planet?

FallenAngelII
February 21st, 2006, 04:39 AM
not just the jumper, theres other ancient tech used, like the Life signs detector

For which I'm pretty sure it's not required that you have the Ancient gene.

Captain-Peregrine
February 21st, 2006, 07:33 AM
Without spoilers...

Thus far this episode is THE episode to beat this season. For those that havent been spoiler ho's it will be a nice ride!!

AWESOME EP!!! And definitely much better than anything since "critical mass" (err not grace under pressure)

It really was a great episode. Maybe not the BEST thus far, but I still really enjoyed it. And I always liked Ladon, so that was fun seeing him again.

entil2001
February 21st, 2006, 11:47 AM
I’ve been hard on the series this season, largely because I’ve felt that the first season practice of weaving a larger story into the stand-alone episodes was far more successful than the haphazard direction taken in the second season. In a lot of ways, this series has suffered the “Enterprise” syndrome. That series began with a relatively average but promising first season, followed by a second season plagued by retreads and a lack of forward progress.

One of the more interesting aspects of the first season was the Genii, a group that added a fresh perspective to the threat of the Wraith and what Pegasus Galaxy inhabitants might do to survive. In many respects, the second season replaced the Genii with Ford’s group, which then failed to gel as a meaningful subplot past “The Hive”. In fact, while some episodes have hinted at elements that will play into the finale, most of the episodes have done little to advance existing plot threads.

This episode doesn’t necessarily address my concerns for the series, but it does revisit one of the better aspects of the first season, so it was more appealing in comparison. I would have preferred a more direct extension of the plot threads from the first season, especially if it would have meant another appearance for Sora, but this was at least a bit less predictable than other recent episodes.

I like the fact that the Atlantis team found itself outplayed by the Genii, and in the end, they did little more than save themselves from an unfortunate end during the coup. I usually dislike episodes that leave the primary cast members as side notes to the real action, but this episode delivered an interesting message. In the end, the Atlantis team is still reactionary, and it is highly vulnerable as a result.

Also interesting was the notion that pictures of specific Atlantis personnel were left on several worlds, all for the purpose of locating and abducting those with the Ancient gene. It occurred to me that this would give the Wraith an interesting clue as to the survival of Atlantis, were they to find those pictures. Granted, the Wraith are now apparently breaking up into factions, but some of them would still be focused on the possibility of new hunting grounds and the promise Atlantis offers.

Hopefully, this episode will not represent the end of the line for the Genii. I’m a little worried about the death of Cowen, but that could have been a concession to Colm’s availability. Radim seems open to a more equitable alliance, but that could always lead to something more complex in the future. One can only hope so, because it was complexity that made this episode work.

I also liked the fact that the subplot with Ronon and Teyla eventually intersected with the Genii plot. The two of them work together, but this episode continues to reveal the main differences between them. While Ronon continues to be little more than the warrior stereotype in action, Teyla shows actual intelligence. And it helps that she looked incredible in that silken top! OK, maybe Teyla wasn’t taken in exciting new directions in this episode, but lately, I’m just happy to see her back in action.

PG15
February 21st, 2006, 07:13 PM
No, you need it. In The Siege Part 2 Shep was about to tell Everette that he won't be able to use the detector. But he could since he said that he had the gene therapy.

Cinephilic TV Addict
February 21st, 2006, 08:36 PM
AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH...

This episode was going so well up until the very last part of it (after the last commercial).

It literally went from being a solid 3 1/2 Star episode down to a 2 Star (which means good to poor in somewhat loose terms).

I'm going to write two sentences. Anyone who can tell the difference between them should be able to tell why this episode's ending was atrocious.

1) The boy kicked the ball.

2) The boy was kicked by the ball.

And yes, I know balls don't have feet. Look harder.

Lone Wolf
February 22nd, 2006, 03:16 AM
I really liked this episode...really did. The story was good and Laden`s a good character, but, in my opinion there is one GREAT flaw in the story.

SPOILERS AHEAD










Now, ofcourse I am subjective when getting pissed that the Atlantis team was basically at the mercy of the Genii. After all, that was the whole idea of the episode and I am totally for developing the flaws in the characters because it adds to realism.

But for God`s sake...the men are military. They stormed the compound where Laden and the ZMP were and entered it, completely leaving their backs uncovered. Each and every member of the team entered and got gassed...what kind of a tactic was that? What kind of a military man would have had ALL of his team enter, turning their backs on the door and not even leaving ONE MAN outside? Does it make any sense? They were sitting ducks. It was a common-sense mistake that I can hardly see any real military man making.

Schrodinger82
February 22nd, 2006, 03:36 AM
Just out of curiosity, have we actually ever seen an episode where they have detected a zpm from a scan on a planet. McKay in the very first episode said that if there were zpms in the city they should be able to detect them......should be able....does not necessarily mean they can in fact detect them. I cannot recall any episodes where they located a zpm via a scan.....but it's late and my memory is shot at the moment so I could be wrong.

Perhaps they are only able to detect active zpms. Every zpm I have seen looks dead unless it is plugged into some sort of power source, so how is it detectable? Shouldn't McKay have had some equipment with him on this little raid to "scan" and see if this zpm was there? Shouldn't a cloaked jumper have snuck through the gate with the raid team and scanned for the zpm?

Guys, I realize that most people didn't like "The Tower," but really, it was just two weeks ago:

(John’s voice comes over the radio.)
SHEPPARD: This is Sheppard. Anyone reading me?
TEYLA: Colonel! Are you alright?
SHEPPARD (over radio): I’m fine. Is McKay with you?
McKAY: I’m here.
SHEPPARD (over radio): Did you find anything with your scans?
McKAY: As a matter of fact, I did. There’s definitely an active ZedPM, but it’s barely registering, so it’s hard to say whether it’s, uh, depleted or just not drawing much power right now.
SHEPPARD (over radio): What else?
McKAY: The really interesting part is that it seems to be coming from underground. Now, when I realised that, I started scanning for subterranean structures. The Tower is just the tip of the iceberg, and there is a massive structure buried beneath it. Now, it’s hard to say without more detailed analysis, but, (he laughs) it could very well be comparable in size to Atlantis itself.

CalmStorm
February 22nd, 2006, 03:57 AM
SHEPPARD (over radio): Did you find anything with your scans?
McKAY: As a matter of fact, I did. There’s definitely an active ZedPM, but it’s barely registering, so it’s hard to say whether it’s, uh, depleted or just not drawing much power right now.

The keyword being active. I understand that they should be able to detect an active zpm, and obviously have, I am not disputing that......what I am having a hard time believing is that they could detect an inactive zpm as they have not managed to do that yet.....that I am aware of.

Both McKay and Carter have said that they should be able to detect a zpm (active or inactive), but even they must have a small degree of doubt or they would omit the 'should' part and say with complete confidence that "yes, we can detect a zpm dead, alive, or inactive." They seem to be fairly confident they can, but also have a degree of hesitance with that assumption/theory.....and as of yet, no dead/inactive zpms have been found via a scan.....again, that I am aware of.

Ashman
February 22nd, 2006, 06:08 AM
I thought the episode was good, its nice to see them wrap up the Geni thing. I hope they come out with more about Ford and his merry band of wraith addicts. Thats my two credits.

Finder of Lost Gates
February 22nd, 2006, 09:46 AM
I'm confused, because I didn't start watching SGA till this season, and have only seen a few Season1, out of order. I think I've seen almost all this season.

Someone please help me put the events straight in my mind.

I thought Atlantis did the fake destruction thing at the first episode this season. Or if not the first, then the first two-parter.

I thought the Genii had tried to take over Atlantis this season. I remember the red-haired woman all hell-bent on revenge as they stormed the station. I could have sworn I just saw this episode recently.

GatetheWay
February 22nd, 2006, 10:02 AM
The Genii tried to take Atlantis over in the middle of season 1. Atlantis faked it's own destruction in the very begining of season 2.

mckaychick
February 22nd, 2006, 12:04 PM
Yeah the genii tried to take over the city in the storm and the eye

Matt G
February 22nd, 2006, 02:27 PM
OK...

1. Nice work by Teyla in working out that the bag meant something.

2. Good stuff with the coup - I'd like to see the Genii as alllies from here on on.

3. By the Genii of course I mean the new Genii establishment, Robert Davi does too cool a job with bad guys not to bring Kolya back.

andrelage
February 22nd, 2006, 02:46 PM
OK...

1. Nice work by Teyla in working out that the bag meant something.

2. Good stuff with the coup - I'd like to see the Genii as alllies from here on on.

3. By the Genii of course I mean the new Genii establishment, Robert Davi does too cool a job with bad guys not to bring Kolya back.


i agree it would be great to see them as allies as they know more planets than the atlantis team and could also tell them where their might be further ancient outposts and also offer nuclear bombs to blow up hive ships

Schrodinger82
February 22nd, 2006, 04:09 PM
The keyword being active. I understand that they should be able to detect an active zpm, and obviously have, I am not disputing that......what I am having a hard time believing is that they could detect an inactive zpm as they have not managed to do that yet.....that I am aware of.

Honestly, it doesn't matter. They weren't actively looking for an inactive ZPM in the first place. In this episode, they wanted an active ZPM. Which means, "Before you take hostages and try to do a raid on their territory to steal an active, you might want to make sure that they have an active ZPM there in the first place."

If they couldn't detect anything, then they should have known that something was up.

GatetheWay
February 22nd, 2006, 04:11 PM
I was spoiled to death on this ep and I didn't see the dead ZPM thing coming at all.

PG15
February 22nd, 2006, 04:26 PM
Honestly, it doesn't matter. They weren't actively looking for an inactive ZPM in the first place. In this episode, they wanted an active ZPM. Which means, "Before you take hostages and try to do a raid on their territory to steal an active, you might want to make sure that they have an active ZPM there in the first place."

If they couldn't detect anything, then they should have known that something was up.

Uh...I don't think that's right.

From your own post, it said that:

McKAY: As a matter of fact, I did. There’s definitely an active ZedPM, but it’s barely registering, so it’s hard to say whether it’s, uh, depleted or just not drawing much power right now.

So, according to McKay, if the ZPM was depleted, he wouldn't have picked up anythng. That's normal, and the basis of your argument.

HOWEVER, McKay specifically said that another reason why he wouldn't be able to pick it up is that IT'S NOT DRAWING MUCH POWER. Therefore, if it wasn't being used (as in, not drawing any power at all), it won't be detected. Thus, even if the ZPM Ladon had was full, they wouldn't have picked it up since it wasn't drawing power AT ALL.

Get it?

ToasterOnFire
February 22nd, 2006, 06:32 PM
I didn't think about using long-distance means to measure the charge of the ZPM. I assumed that the Atlantis team would insist on sending Rodney or another scientist over there to analyze the ZPM directly. Too bad that option wasn't even brought up.

Having the team assume that the ZPM was charged, especially after seeing how crafty the Genii were in Storm/Eye, was too much blind faith for my tastes.

Schrodinger82
February 22nd, 2006, 06:44 PM
Uh...I don't think that's right.

From your own post, it said that:

McKAY: As a matter of fact, I did. There’s definitely an active ZedPM, but it’s barely registering, so it’s hard to say whether it’s, uh, depleted or just not drawing much power right now.

So, according to McKay, if the ZPM was depleted, he wouldn't have picked up anythng. That's normal, and the basis of your argument.

Actually, the basis of my argument was whether they could detect an non-depleted ZPM. It's not like they would have a reason to actively detect a drained one.


HOWEVER, McKay specifically said that another reason why he wouldn't be able to pick it up is that IT'S NOT DRAWING MUCH POWER. Therefore, if it wasn't being used (as in, not drawing any power at all), it won't be detected. Thus, even if the ZPM Ladon had was full, they wouldn't have picked it up since it wasn't drawing power AT ALL.

Get it?

:sigh:

I really shouldn't have to do this, but...

Rising:
JACKSON: Jack, you know to gate to another Galaxy requires an enormous amount of power.

O'NEILL: Yes I do. Find another way.

JACKSON: There's no other way.

O'NEILL: You think there are more of these Zed things in Atlantis?

JACKSON: Yes and who knows what else we could find. This isn't just some other civilization we're talking about. These are the gate builders.

Establishes that one of the reasons they went to Atlantis was specifically so they could find more ZPMs. Now, obviously there're not going to send them out without giving them the latest tech in ZPM detection.

Zero Hour
REYNOLDS: It’s the only thing powerful enough to activate the Ancient defence weapons SG-1 found down in Antarctica. The one we have is pretty much dead ...
(Lee has been running a gadget over the ZPM. The gadget starts beeping.)
LEE: We-he-hell, this one sure isn’t!
GILMOR: How good is it?
LEE: Well, I’m gonna have to do some more detailed analysis but these preliminary readings indicate at least fifty percent capacity.

Establishes that the tech they have for detecting ZPMs doesn't necessarily have to be very large. Granted, they would have been further away in "Coup," but considering the fact that they ran scans from a cloaked ship, they could have come in within a hundred feet, easily.

Moebius:
CARTER: We did an extensive satellite sweep of the Giza plateau searching for an energy signature like the one given off by the ZPM we found at Taonas. Even if it’s buried under dirt and rock, we should have been able to detect it. We found nothing. I’m sorry, Daniel, but if it’s there, it’s probably been depleted.
DANIEL: No, I don’t think so. According to the text, it was a religious artefact, an icon. It was never used as a power source.
TEAL’C: It is possible Ra simply took the device with him when he left Earth.
Establishes that they have the tech to detect a ZPM that is not drawing power from orbit, even if it's buried under dirt and rock.

Coup:
SHEPPARD: The Special Ops guy’s followed Ladon to M6R-867. Looks like he’s occupied a warehouse in a bombed-out abandoned city.
McKAY: It was most likely destroyed by the Wraith and never re-inhabited.
SHEPPARD: He did a quick fly-over in a cloaked Jumper and sure enough there are about twenty life signs in the building.
McKAY: Well, twenty life signs on the whole planet, actually.

Apparently the jumper's sensors were good enough to detect all lifesigns on the entire planet. Given that level of sensititivity, I have a hard time believing that they couldn't modify them to detect a ZPM in a building from 50-100 feet, something that even non-Atlantean tech could do.

As of "The Seige," they would have presumably had access to more research to ZPM's and ZPM scanning technology (based on what they pulled from Atlantis's sensors), and Earth would have had ample opportunity to supply them with the newest equipment.

The fact that McKay was able to detect a ZPM that was drawing power in "Tower" doesn't in itself prove that he couldn't detect a ZPM that wasn't drawing power, not does it in itself prove that he could. However, the above quotes from Moebius and Zero Hour do prove that it would be within their capabilities. The fact that they chose not to is a plot hole.

Schrodinger82
February 22nd, 2006, 06:49 PM
I didn't think about using long-distance means to measure the charge of the ZPM. I assumed that the Atlantis team would insist on sending Rodney or another scientist over there to analyze the ZPM directly. Too bad that option wasn't even brought up.

Having the team assume that the ZPM was charged, especially after seeing how crafty the Genii were in Storm/Eye, was too much blind faith for my tastes.

The thing is, it wasn't even an issue of the ZPM being depleted. It was an issue of the ZPM being present. For all they know, the ZPM Ladon was holding up could have been a glass replica. Or, more likely, it could have been stored on a completely different world until Ladon was sure everything went by smoothly, which he had already done earlier in that episode.

Either way, they should have run scans. At which point, they would have barely registered anything, and concluded that the ZPM was either not there, or depleted.

PG15
February 22nd, 2006, 06:56 PM
Hmm...darn it.

Fine. :P

Linzi
February 23rd, 2006, 01:05 AM
I loved this episode. It was everything I hoped it would be and more!
I thought Sheppard was great in it, McKay too.
I liked the Ronon, Teyla 'B' plot, and thought it was cleverly tied into the main plot.
Some of the lines were classic.
Shep's 'That's Lt.Col errand boy to you'
Shep's 'You're just being nice'
McKay's line about one tango in the room, all stood out for me!
Great plot, with plenty of twists, and an exciting, tense episode. If only more were like this. Bit sad about Cowan though. Oh well, I just hope Kolya is still out there somewhere....

Finder of Lost Gates
February 23rd, 2006, 08:40 AM
The Genii tried to take Atlantis over in the middle of season 1. Atlantis faked it's own destruction in the very begining of season 2.

Thanks. It's what I get for watching the first run Atlantis eps on Friday and trying to catch up with the syndicated episodes at other times.

Elinor
February 23rd, 2006, 10:42 AM
This is the first episode in a long time that I really had to concentrate on (please don't laugh...it's rude http://www.clicksmilies.com/s0105/aktion/action-smiley-015.gif) and that was really difficult, 'cos Shep kept distracting me a LOT!! Hair was particularly 'bed-headdy gorgeous', he was whumped, tied up, wore those sexy 'Dame Edna Everage' glasses and was giving orders all over the place...phew! It's a good job I recorded this, 'cos I need to watch it again to get the gist of the blinkin' thing!! It was all about the Genii wasn't it...er...and a ZPM...or something, something?!!


Oh well, I just hope Kolya is still out there somewhere....

Yes...we need to see a SHOWDOWN!!

http://www.clicksmilies.com/s0105/waffen/violent-smiley-044.gif

Linzi
February 24th, 2006, 12:11 AM
This is the first episode in a long time that I really had to concentrate on (please don't laugh...it's rude http://www.clicksmilies.com/s0105/aktion/action-smiley-015.gif) and that was really difficult, 'cos Shep kept distracting me a LOT!! Hair was particularly 'bed-headdy gorgeous', he was whumped, tied up, wore those sexy 'Dame Edna Everage' glasses and was giving orders all over the place...phew! It's a good job I recorded this, 'cos I need to watch it again to get the gist of the blinkin' thing!! It was all about the Genii wasn't it...er...and a ZPM...or something, something?!!



Yes...we need to see a SHOWDOWN!!

http://www.clicksmilies.com/s0105/waffen/violent-smiley-044.gif

I'm not laughing as I had to concentrate on the plot too!
JF can be very distracting, which makes concentration elusive at times!
'Dame Edna Everage' glasses, LOL!!!! Dame Edna and sexy shouldn't be in the same sentence! I find it amazing that JF looked so good in said glasses, but he did! Mind you the man would look good in anything.....:sheppard:

SeaBee
February 25th, 2006, 11:45 AM
An ok ep., if a little obvious.

Stricken
March 1st, 2006, 12:00 AM
The Genii have been in Season 2 in dribs and drabs and Coup D’etat allowed for them to come to the foreground. We have flashbacks to previous Genii episodes and then the nuke over Atlantis was unexpected but knowing the Genii have nukes it could play a part, as it did in this episode.

We soon discover that Major Lorne and his team are missing, the Genii must have known we that we would know that the bodies weren’t Lorne and his team. As it turns out it was linked to the Genii’s plans to use the ATA gene to use Puddle Jumpers to fly around drop nukes and be home in time.
It took Weir to realise that the reason why Sheppard and McKay are on the list and not Ronan and Teyla is because of the gene. But in the end our guys, with the gene, get back to Atlantis safely.

Something that shocked many was the defector from the Genii, Ladon wanted to rebel and kill their currently leader, with Atlantis’ help with the guns and explosives in exchange for a Zed-PM which was too good to be true, which it was as it was depleted. The reason for it was the fact that the Genii wished to have “Galactic domination” much like the Goa’uld and Wraith in their respective Galaxies by threatening planets with the their intending doom with the nukes. In many ways Atlantis could have helped the Genii to help themselves.

As with any episode of Stargate it would have to have its fair share of twists and the major one in this episode was that there was no rebellion and the fact that the Genii were planning on fooling Atlantis into getting the Puddle Jumpers and the rebellion was a fake into getting them to send a team to get the depleted Zed-PM. And the only item that Atlantis could trade with were actually terminally ill Genii who apparently didn’t mean anything to the Genii. This all meant that the Atlantis team were stuck between a rock and a hard place; Sheppard was first on the list but in the end as with a good Stargate twist Ladon was actually using the Atlantis team to serve his own needs. Fooling the Genii leadership with the lure of Puddle Jumpers which would serve their plans to nuke Wraith ships/bases. Which meant that is was a double, double cross the leader of Genii got his behind nuked and Ladon became the new leader of the Genii but I’m sure that he won’t become an ally but an enemy when the time comes when he needs something to achieve his goals. Landon turning was all because we could help cure his sister, thanks to Beckett, and Weir agreed with Ladon that we would help as many Genii as possible.
We have to wonder how many other planets know that Atlantis hasn’t been destroyed, its only a matter of time before the Wraith get wise and come attack, more to the point how did the Genii find out…

This wasn’t really an episode that would have future impact on the rest of the season, more of a gap filler which along with other gap fillers will play a part in a clip show next season of this we can be sure.

Coup D’etat receives a S.G.C rating of 7 out 9 Chevrons!
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HirogenGater
March 8th, 2006, 04:02 PM
Nice twist in the plot. I liked it.

Spooks99
March 24th, 2006, 11:57 PM
One thing I have yet to understand...Atlantis has the Deadelus now, and the Deadelus has beaming technology. Even if they didn't know where Sheppard and the others were being held, once Weir became aware of the situation she should have sent the Deadelus to take the Genii's DHD. It could do that, right? And it would effectively cripple the Genii, and make a great bargaining chip. In fact, I think they should have done that the minute the siege on Atlantis was over at the beginning of the season. Effectively neutralise the threat without a drop of blood shed. Was there even any mention of the Deadelus? Maybe it was on a supply run to Earth and I just missed that?

PG15
March 27th, 2006, 05:13 PM
I don't think they mentioned it, but I guess we'll just assume that it wasn't there.

But really, taking the only means of travel between planets away from any race is not very ethical.

somethinghuman
March 28th, 2006, 02:46 PM
One thing I have yet to understand...Atlantis has the Deadelus now, and the Deadelus has beaming technology. Even if they didn't know where Sheppard and the others were being held, once Weir became aware of the situation she should have sent the Deadelus to take the Genii's DHD. It could do that, right? And it would effectively cripple the Genii, and make a great bargaining chip. In fact, I think they should have done that the minute the siege on Atlantis was over at the beginning of the season. Effectively neutralise the threat without a drop of blood shed. Was there even any mention of the Deadelus? Maybe it was on a supply run to Earth and I just missed that?

You cant do that. That is logical!!:P You have to have tension, the threat of an enemy, your team kidnapped, suspense flying!! Heck if I had beaming technology I'd take the whole stargate, you never know when one might come in handy.